Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 15 Jan 2002 to 16 Jan 2002 (#2002-17) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 17/01/2002, 19:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 18 messages totalling 703 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Some ideas on the lost elven city 2. Which Immortal to use? (5) 3. about Turin 4. elven city name (4) 5. OD&DITIES Issue 6! 6. War Journal of Bue Geirsteinson Delayed (3) 7. Request for Help: Draeden & Dragons (2) 8. elven city name that rocks ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:33:30 +0200 From: Ville V Lahde Subject: Re: Some ideas on the lost elven city > Gondolin?> > Yes, I think, albeit I haven't read Silmarillion for years. BTW, there's a longer version of his story in the Book of Unfinished Tales. I based the ideas on Henadin loosely on Tuor. Henadin escapes slavery in Dor-Lomin (Essurian-occupied Denagoth), meets the golden dragon and finds his ancestral artefacts (goes to Vinyamar and finds the stuff that Turgon left there by the urging of Ulmo), and travels to "Gondolin". (BTW, Turgon was the friend of Hurin, Tuor's father, who died in the battle of Uncounted Tears [not sure about the original name], so the fate of the houses were always linked to each other. The house of Hurin was both the source of destruction and the source of salvation for the elves. This ambivalence could add spice to the house of Henadin.) If I remember correctly, the tragical hero Turin Turambar ("son of Tuor"?) was born in Gondolin. The romance, treachery and tragedy in this tale would be a good inspiration for the stories of the lost elven city. The story of Kullervo Kalervonpoika (son of Kalervo) in the Finnish epic Kalevala is the inspiration to the story, by the way. Check it, it's quite good. Ville ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:45:58 -0800 From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Which Immortal to use? > Newbie to the list here. I apologize for those who > read a similar post on the WoTC Mystara board; it > appears there are more readers here. Welcome, always good to see a fresh face. I think most of the people on the WoTC board will be here and then some. (this does seem to be the better forum as the board has had more problems in the past) > But here is my issue; I would like the new and > improved Bhuts to have a patron Immortal. This > Immortal would have to be an Immortal of Chaos, Well if I was doing it I would probally use Loki. If you have X4/X5 you may already know why I would say this, but in X4 they use deception to lure their prey in before killing them, appearing to be what they are not. Also though, they are obviously aiding Loki's forces and so most likely have something to do with him although what exactly was not made clear AFAIK. However there is no reason they need worship just one immortal. It would be quite reasonable for them to worship several for different reasons. Hel of Orcus might be other good choices because of their link with the undead. Orcus tends to be underused for such a colourful immortal. Feel free to make up history behind what you decide or create a new immortal/character behind it because as far as I know it has not really been developed. If you don't have X4, some of the infomation in it might be worthwhile to you, I'm sure I or someone else would be happy to summarise it for you. Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:57:15 +0200 From: Thibault SARLAT Subject: about Turin sorry but Turin never went to godolin. His father Hurin, knew Turgon very= well (since he helped him escape a lost battle and remain the secret hidd= en hope for the elves and men) and had an idea as the whereabouts of the h= idden city (and it finally betrayed the location to morgoth spys), but he = never actually went there. The only human who went there was Tuor, who married Idril (Turgon's daugh= ter) and had Earendil (Elrond's father) thib ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:17:32 +0200 From: Eyal Fleminger Subject: Re: Which Immortal to use? Well, Alphaks might be a possibility (or Rathanos if you want someone much less nasty) > From: Tim Huntley > Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: [MYSTARA] Which Immortal to use? > Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 20:43:28 -0800 > > Hi! > > Newbie to the list here. I apologize for those who > read a similar post on the WoTC Mystara board; it > appears there are more readers here. > > Anyway, I will soon be starting a new Mystaran > campaign. The characters are going to be starting > very low level, and going from there. They will be > starting in a small village (based on The Village > Poisson on WoTC's "Map of the Week" area) and will > discover after numerous hits and attacks on their > village a Bhut settlement not too far away (based on > The Haunted Village on WoTC's "Matp of the Week" > area.) The Bhut will be the common, re-occuring > villans plaguing them throughout their careers. > > So, I am pretty much overhauling the Bhut. I am going > to create Lesser and Greater Bhut, to get them started > against the Bhut early, and keep them going long after > they are shredding the normal Bhuts. > > But here is my issue; I would like the new and > improved Bhuts to have a patron Immortal. This > Immortal would have to be an Immortal of Chaos, > because that's what I am considering the Bhuts - > creatures of chaos. I have been looking through all > the Immortals listed in Wrath of the Immortals, but I > can't seem to find one that fits. The closest *I* > have found is Jammudaru, who was cursed to become a > slimy monster. That part fits with the Bhut, save the > slimy part. But Jammudaru has a srong sense of > revenge, so I have been told, and that's not what I > see in my Bhuts. > > Can anyone steer me in the direction of an Immortal > that fits what I have described? Or should I just > make one up? > > Thanks, > Tim. > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! > http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:52:55 -0500 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: elven city name > > hello Geoff > > feel free to name the city as you want Geoff, but keep in mind that Iron is not generally associated with "haven". It is a much more constraining material. > Keep also in mind that the suffix "lond" goes with a port...which is not the case here. Hmmm...I was basing it on the old name of Isengard (Angrenost, or Fortress of Iron) - though Gondor had built the place originally, I figured, since the leves aren't like faeries (ie: having an aversion to cold iron), they might not see iron as being restrictive, but protective instead, but point taken. > i believe we should work with the following roots (but i am sure i forgot many): > > Bar (mbar) = house, hold > Nar, Naur = fire,( for the reddish color of the iron tower against the sunlight) > narya, caran, = rouge > cul = golden > ruin, runya = flame > til = crest, high peak (suffix) Silver always seemed to be to be a metal associated with elves. Mithril doesn't exist in Mystara (in canon, at any rate), so IMC I usually have elvish weapons filigreed with silver, to add that touch of elegance. IIRC, the word for silver was caleb, so perhaps it could be a fortress of silver (Calebost?)... Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:07:54 -0000 From: Richard Tongue Subject: OD&DITIES Issue 6! OD&DITIES Issue 6 is now avaliable! The address for this latest issue, and other issues, is www.tongue.fsnet.co.uk ! Featuring articles by Geoff Gander, James Mishler, Jesse Walker, James John Gregoire and Richard Tongue! Come and see! Richard Tongue, Editor, OD&DITIES The fanzine for original Dungeons and Dragons ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 19:57:43 +0100 From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: elven city name sorry to contradict but silver is "Celeb" in Sindarin and "telpë" in Quenya good choice though and i finnaly agree about the protective value of Iron Angrenost is not the tower (it's orthanc) , it's the perfect circle of fortifications around it...later broken down by the Ents.. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Gander" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 5:52 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] elven city name > > > >hello Geoff > > > >feel free to name the city as you want Geoff, but keep in mind that Iron is not generally associated with "haven". It is a much more constraining material. > >Keep also in mind that the suffix "lond" goes with a port...which is not the case here. > > Hmmm...I was basing it on the old name of Isengard (Angrenost, or Fortress > of Iron) - though Gondor had built the place originally, I figured, since > the leves aren't like faeries (ie: having an aversion to cold iron), they > might not see iron as being restrictive, but protective instead, but point > taken. > > >i believe we should work with the following roots (but i am sure i forgot many): > > > >Bar (mbar) = house, hold > >Nar, Naur = fire,( for the reddish color of the iron tower against the sunlight) > >narya, caran, = rouge > >cul = golden > >ruin, runya = flame > >til = crest, high peak (suffix) > > Silver always seemed to be to be a metal associated with elves. Mithril > doesn't exist in Mystara (in canon, at any rate), so IMC I usually have > elvish weapons filigreed with silver, to add that touch of elegance. > IIRC, the word for silver was caleb, so perhaps it could be a fortress of > silver (Calebost?)... > > Geoff > > -- > Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 > Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer > Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy > au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:14:12 +0100 From: Jacob Skytte Subject: War Journal of Bue Geirsteinson Delayed Sorry, this story will be delayed for a while. I was "persuaded" to do = some Almanac work, which has taken priority. Rest assured that it will = be finished in time. There isn't that much left of it, so maybe sooner = than you think. :) Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:37:43 -0500 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: elven city name Thib wrote: sorry to contradict > but silver is "Celeb" in Sindarin and "telpë" in Quenya > > good choice though > and i finnaly agree about the protective value of Iron :-) Well, since the Quenya word (telpeost? but wait, you can't have two vowels next to each other IIRC) would sound rather awkward, Celebost could be used for lack of a better word - or DMs can just think up whatever word sounds neat to them. > Angrenost is not the tower (it's orthanc) , it's the perfect circle of >fortifications around it...later broken down by the Ents.. Ah, bugger. Thou art verily the master. :) Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:53:02 +0100 From: la Volpe Subject: Request for Help: Draeden & Dragons Hello all. To end my Guide to the Cosmos project I need info on draeden and dragons. I especially search for all canon and fan-made references to the origin of draeden, their relation with dragons and, if there is any, a story about origin of dragons and their role in the multiverse. I know I could search for them myself, but if somebody can give me clues, or even wholly "new" ideas before I begin to search the Vaults of Pandius... Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:09:57 -0600 From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Request for Help: Draeden & Dragons In my campaign dragons have an intimate connection to the Multiverse, which is their source of power. During their ritual of sublimation, in the sleeping portion they actually travel astrally or on the Outer Planes and gather secrets (in the form of power mystical skills, on the order of the circles of power of the Glantrian secret crafts). They were originally placed in the position of Guardians of the Multiverse (hence the development into the status of Immortal Guardian). They are ultimately responsible for the Darine and the Werewolves (the former being mystical guardians of Mystara and the latter their soldiers; beings from Nightmare ran afoul of them and cursed both the Darine and the lycanthropes). Just my two cents' worth. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "la Volpe" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 1:53 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] Request for Help: Draeden & Dragons > Hello all. To end my Guide to the Cosmos project I need info on draeden > and > dragons. I especially search for all canon and fan-made references to > the origin of draeden, their relation with dragons and, if there is any, > a story about origin of dragons and their role in the multiverse. > I know I could search for them myself, but if somebody can give me > clues, or even wholly "new" ideas before I begin to search the Vaults of > Pandius... > > Iulius Sergius Scaevola > Captain of the XXth Cohort > Port Lucinius, Thyatis > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:40:27 +0100 From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Which Immortal to use? Chris Furneaux wrote: > > > I would like the new and > > improved Bhuts to have a patron Immortal. > > Well if I was doing it I would probally use Loki. [..] > However there is no reason they need worship just one > immortal. Whatever Immortal you choose, you might want to use his/her Sindhi version, for the Bhut are of Sindhi origin. There is somewhere a list of Sindhi names for the Immortals (I can't find the author's name right now, the web address should be http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/Mystara/). Here are the entropic ones: Orcus (demon of slaughter) - Auraksha Marwdyn (necromancy) - Maravidya Masauwu (temptation) - Mavasa Pearl (malevolent creatures) - Chandri Ranivorus (demon of perversion) - Yainughu Yagrai (plagues, disease, vengeance) - Yagharya Loki (betrayal, lies) - Lukya, also Bhajyagwan Hel (destruction, death, reincarnation) - Kala Alphaks (demon of violence and rage) - Athaksha Demogorgon (demon of destruction) - Dhamurgana Jammudaru (ogres, destruction of art) - Jammudaru Now, as I said on the message board, I too think Loki and Orcus could be appropriate. Other appropriate Immortals from that list are Ranivorus, Masauwu, Pearl, and perhaps one between Alphaks and Demogorgon. Jammudaru is also appropriate. If you want the Bhut to have a complex religion with a full pantheon, you could well find three Immortals who oppose in Sind the three personae of Ixion (Ayazi, Himayeti e Aksyri, that is the creator, the preserver, and the destroyer--I don't remember in which order). The Creator would be opposed by an Immortal who perverts creation, the Preserver would be opposed by a champion of Entropy and Destruction, and the Destroyer by a master of Undeath. Choosing among the most powerful Entropics, I'd select Loki, Demogorgon, and Hel, for this triad. Bhajyagwan(a) Distortion of Truth, The Daytime Masquerade Dhamurgana Destruction, The Nightly Hunt Kala Endlessness, The Promise of Undeath I put an (a) after Bhajyagwan because one could consider the possibility of having three female Immortals (with Loki using a female persona) in opposition to the three (male) aspects of Ixion. The three goddesses would have generated three children, Mavasa, the Herald of Corruption Jammudaru, the Herald of Destruction Maravidya, the Herald of Undeath And each of these Children would have generated in turn one of the progenitors of the Bhut by mating with Chandri, the mother of all creatures. This could allow for different types of Bhut (differing not only in power, but also in abilities), with Sons of Jammudaru being the first met by the party, since they would be vengeful and proactive, while Sons of Mavasa would be subtle and reactive, and Sons of Maravidya would be more similar to the undead. Each of the three Children also represents one of the aspects of the Bhut, namely the human façade, the beast within, and the undead. So we can have a pantheon with 7 immortals involved in the Bhut, which gives the opportunity for an articulated campaign where the Bhut are the major enemies. Opinions? -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:53:47 +0100 From: Agathokles Subject: Re: elven city name Geoff Gander wrote: > > :-) Well, since the Quenya word (telpeost? but wait, you can't have two > vowels next to each other IIRC) would sound rather awkward, Celebost could > be used for lack of a better word - or DMs can just think up > whatever word sounds neat to them. Celeb in names often becomes "Telep" in Quenya (as in the Quenya version of Celeborn), so it would be Teleposto, probably. Also "Tyelep" would be possible (though old-style). Still, it sounds awkward, like many Quenya words. Anglond, OTOH, would sound Angalondë. Not that bad :) -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:55:34 -0800 From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: War Journal of Bue Geirsteinson Delayed > Sorry, this story will be delayed for a while. I was > "persuaded" to do some Almanac work, which has taken > priority. Rest assured that it will be finished in > time. There isn't that much left of it, so maybe > sooner than you think. :) Oh well... I am really looking foward to seeing the rest cause it has been really good so far. Good job Jacob, you got me hooked and thats pretty hard to do... Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:14:40 -0800 From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Which Immortal to use? > So we can have a pantheon with 7 immortals involved > in the Bhut, which > gives the opportunity for an articulated campaign > where the Bhut are the > major enemies. > > Opinions? Nice work, I like. It so cool what useing immortals as the background for various things can add to the game if you put your mind to it. I really have to read my WotI again now I've got it back. It also gives plenty of reason to bring Bhuts and other minions of evil more effectively into sind which has lacked always lacked a bit on detail (it was always that land at the edge of the knowen world that no-one ventured beyond). Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:51:18 -0600 From: Stone Marshall Subject: Re: War Journal of Bue Geirsteinson Delayed grumble, grumble, whine, whine, I want it all now!!!!! :) > From: Jacob Skytte > Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: [MYSTARA] War Journal of Bue Geirsteinson Delayed > Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:14:12 +0100 > > Sorry, this story will be delayed for a while. I was "persuaded" to do some > Almanac work, which has taken priority. Rest assured that it will be > finished in time. There isn't that much left of it, so maybe sooner than > you think. :) > > Jacob Skytte > scythe@wanadoo.dk > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:49:27 -0500 From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Which Immortal to use? > So we can have a pantheon with 7 immortals involved in the Bhut, which > gives the opportunity for an articulated campaign where the Bhut are the > major enemies. > > Opinions? > -- Masterful! Are you somehow schooled in RW Hindu culture, or did all of this just come to you? Either way, it is quite good. You took a basic question and turned it into something really interesting - now I want to add this version of bhuts into MC. The last time I used them, I think was in X4, many years ago. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:38:22 +0200 From: Thibault SARLAT Subject: elven city name that rocks i do think that Angalond=EB rocks!!! It has this interesting old sonnority. And it evocates just what Geoff needed. good name dudes!! thib ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 15 Jan 2002 to 16 Jan 2002 (#2002-17) ***************************************************************