Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 29 Aug 2002 to 30 Aug 2002 (#2002-226)
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Date: 31/08/2002, 17:00
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Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion
There are 35 messages totalling 1129 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Taymor and Varellya (12)
2. Taymor Timeline Wanted! (6)
3. Tarthis Adirth (long)
4. Katonate Culture (4)
5. Taymor (2)
6. Various Blackmoor Questions (5)
7. I'm Back...I think (4)
8. Revised Taymoran history
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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 09:38:16 +0200
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= <havardfaa@YAHOO.NO>
Subject: Re: Taymor and Varellya
--- Giampaolo Agosta <agathokles@LIBERO.IT> skrev: >
Christopher M Cherrington wrote:
>
> >
> > If the rafts stayed south of the Isle of Dread,
> until recently, they could
> > have remained undetected for a very long time.
> Maybe Kron's rafts were
> > broken up from a larger colony still south of the
> Isle of Dread. (Storm,
> > Politics, Immortal Meddling).
>
> Yes, but a raft city needs to be near some trade
> route where they can get (from plunder) all those
> materials they can't grow or mine on the high sea.
They could trade with seafolk instead? Cant remember
the name of the fishmen offhand, but these guys could
probably reach Kron even if the rafts are pretty far
off the coast.
I rather like the idea of a larger colony of fleets,
turning Greater Kron into a nation at sea. (Reminds me
of Serraine for some reason). Anyone care to do an
Almanac-style description of the new nation?
Havard
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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 09:41:07 +0200
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= <havardfaa@YAHOO.NO>
Subject: Taymor Timeline Wanted!
Hi,
I accidentally deleted the Taymor timeline from my
inbox. Could somebody please send it my way?
Also, Id really like to know more about Taymor. Ive
pieced together hints here and there from Agatho's and
James Mishler's work, but Id love to see a writeup of
the country at the peak of its civilization. Also, a
map would be wonderful..Anyone? Thib?
HÃ¥vard
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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:01:35 +0200
From: Giampaolo Agosta <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
Subject: Re: Taymor Timeline Wanted!
Havard Faanes wrote:
> Hi,
> I accidentally deleted the Taymor timeline from my
> inbox. Could somebody please send it my way?
I'll send it to you when I get back home this evening.
> Also, Id really like to know more about Taymor. Ive
> pieced together hints here and there from Agatho's and
> James Mishler's work, but Id love to see a writeup of
> the country at the peak of its civilization. Also, a
> map would be wonderful..Anyone? Thib?
There was a rough map by James Mishler, IIRC. As for a writeup, I'm
going to try and write one once I've sorted out the remaining details of
the history, as the Lhomarrian connection and the possibility of a link
with Kron.
--
Giampaolo Agosta
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:10:57 +0200
From: Giampaolo Agosta <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
Subject: Re: Taymor and Varellya
> They could trade with seafolk instead? Cant remember
> the name of the fishmen offhand, but these guys could
> probably reach Kron even if the rafts are pretty far
> off the coast.
Tritons? Merrow? Yes, in the "War Rafts of Kron", they do have an agreement with the seafolk. However, I think they would still need a land based refuge, at least to get replacements for the rafts.
In order to reduce their dependence from the land, they would need extensive sea magic--otherwise the rafts would not survive the bad season.
> I rather like the idea of a larger colony of fleets,
> turning Greater Kron into a nation at sea. (Reminds me
> of Serraine for some reason).
Yes, the idea is very interesting.
> Anyone care to do an
> Almanac-style description of the new nation?
Not right now, I'm a bit busy with Taymora ;)
--
Giampaolo Agosta
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:15:51 +0200
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= <havardfaa@YAHOO.NO>
Subject: Re: Taymor Timeline Wanted!
--- Giampaolo Agosta <agathokles@LIBERO.IT> skrev: >
Havard Faanes wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > I accidentally deleted the Taymor timeline from my
> > inbox. Could somebody please send it my way?
>
> I'll send it to you when I get back home this
> evening.
Thanks!
> There was a rough map by James Mishler, IIRC. As for
> a writeup, I'm
> going to try and write one once I've sorted out the
> remaining details of
> the history, as the Lhomarrian connection and the
> possibility of a link
> with Kron.
Im looking forward to seeing your writeup. Ive seen
Mishler's version of old Nithia, but I dont think Ive
seen a Taymor map. What would be really useful would
be to have a map marking them both and/or other
interesting civilizations in the area...
Havard
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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:19:26 +0200
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= <havardfaa@YAHOO.NO>
Subject: Re: Taymor and Varellya
--- Giampaolo Agosta <agathokles@LIBERO.IT> skrev: >
> Tritons? Merrow? Yes, in the "War Rafts of Kron",
> they do have an agreement with the seafolk. However,
> I think they would still need a land based refuge,
> at least to get replacements for the rafts.
> In order to reduce their dependence from the land,
> they would need extensive sea magic--otherwise the
> rafts would not survive the bad season.
Actually, I was thinking about the fish-race you didnt
mention right now. The ones with the fish heads. Not
Shark-king. Hmmm.. (bangs-head-against-the-wall)
If they are located south of the Isle of Dread (like
Christopher suggested), they could have contact with
the Hinterlanders. Also, Im all for heavy magic on
Greater Kron, although I havent read the adventure
Module in years so i dont know how that works with
that one. Perhaps Protius has awarded them with some
artifact? (Hmmm, maybe thats been done too many times
before...)
HÃ¥vard
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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:36:58 +0200
From: Giampaolo Agosta <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
Subject: Re: Taymor Timeline Wanted!
Havard Faanes wrote:
>
> Im looking forward to seeing your writeup. Ive seen
> Mishler's version of old Nithia, but I dont think Ive
> seen a Taymor map. What would be really useful would
> be to have a map marking them both and/or other
> interesting civilizations in the area...
This is the map I was referring to:
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/1437/TAYMGEO.gif
It's actually less rough than I remembered, although it lacks city and
boundary markings.
--
Giampaolo Agosta
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:44:13 +0200
From: Giampaolo Agosta <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
Subject: Re: Taymor and Varellya
Havard Faanes wrote:
>
> Actually, I was thinking about the fish-race you didnt
> mention right now. The ones with the fish heads. Not
> Shark-king. Hmmm.. (bangs-head-against-the-wall)
Shark-kin. Uhm... they are the less likely to deal friendly with humans, IIRC. Perhaps the Goldfish-like traders? (Kna?)
> If they are located south of the Isle of Dread (like
> Christopher suggested), they could have contact with
> the Hinterlanders. Also, Im all for heavy magic on
> Greater Kron, although I havent read the adventure
> Module in years so i dont know how that works with
> that one. Perhaps Protius has awarded them with some
> artifact? (Hmmm, maybe thats been done too many times
> before...)
Yeah, a bit cheap (also, Protius is not that interested in landbased
creatures, and not a very proactive immortal, though Kron could be an
experiment in making sea-dwellers out of landlubbers).
Though certainly their religious and arcane knowledge must focus on the
sea, keeping it calm, calling winds, controlling weather, etc.
However, they look more like a piratical culture, judging from the
module. They might, like the Nimmurians, worship some Entropic immortal
who gives them the ability to survive in the high sea, saving them from
whatever danger forced them off the land in thne first instance--which
could be the sunk of Taymora, if they are a Taymoran remnant.
--
Giampaolo Agosta
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 12:58:19 +0200
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= <havardfaa@YAHOO.NO>
Subject: Re: Taymor and Varellya
--- Giampaolo Agosta <agathokles@LIBERO.IT> skrev: >
Havard Faanes wrote:
> Shark-kin. Uhm... they are the less likely to deal
> friendly with humans, IIRC. Perhaps the
> Goldfish-like traders? (Kna?)
Kna!
Exactly the ones I was thinking about. The Shark-kin
(The g was a typo) might be apporpriate if the
Kronians are indeed evil. Kopru hanging out near the
Isle of Dread might have some contact with them
aswell.
> Yeah, a bit cheap (also, Protius is not that
> interested in landbased
> creatures, and not a very proactive immortal, though
> Kron could be an
> experiment in making sea-dwellers out of
> landlubbers).
> Though certainly their religious and arcane
> knowledge must focus on the
> sea, keeping it calm, calling winds, controlling
> weather, etc.
>
> However, they look more like a piratical culture,
> judging from the
> module. They might, like the Nimmurians, worship
> some Entropic immortal
> who gives them the ability to survive in the high
> sea, saving them from
> whatever danger forced them off the land in thne
> first instance--which
> could be the sunk of Taymora, if they are a Taymoran
> remnant.
Perhaps the Greater Kron might be a "good" nation,
while the known entropy worshippers were all driven
away when the lesser part split away. Evil Kronians
might worship the Gods of Taymor (whoever they were,
Hel, Thanatos?) or even have adapted younger ones like
the patron of the Shark-kin (Again I forgot the
name...Sskass?)
Perhaps, what happened to Taymor was similar to a
Noah's Ark story where the few good people of Taymor
got onto the fleets and survived while the rest
perished? Ofcourse, a few bad elements also survived
to create the lesser Kron in recent times...
Havard
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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 12:59:38 +0200
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= <havardfaa@YAHOO.NO>
Subject: Re: Taymor Timeline Wanted!
--- Giampaolo Agosta <agathokles@LIBERO.IT> skrev: >
Havard Faanes wrote:
> This is the map I was referring to:
>
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/1437/TAYMGEO.gif
> It's actually less rough than I remembered, although
> it lacks city and
> boundary markings.
Awsome!
Am I right in assuming that whats seen in the
northeastern corner is actually Nithia? How much of
that map and which parts would be covered by Taymor?
HÃ¥vard
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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 05:05:31 -0500
From: Michael Stephan <mstephan@ATTBI.COM>
Subject: Re: Tarthis Adirth (long)
----- Original Message -----
> > > What size is the army there? In GAZ1 its 2,000 strong in peacetime
> > > operations in 1000 AC.
> >
> > 8,000 strong (wartime I think and probally excludes internal gaurd
forces,
> > it'll be what they could march to draokin I'd say). BR:108
> >
> A matter of opinion of course, but I tend to look at the armies in X10 as
> the whole military of the country (with the exception of those puny units
> of Ostland and Vestland), and thus for example Karameikos would need some
> units at domestic defence and would use only some in the Darokin war.
>
> But that would again depend on the power level the DM wants to give to
> her/his Karameikos.
>
> Ville
>
Oops I didn't mean to put off responding for so long, but my how the time
flies when you live at work. :(
I have found the armies in X10 to match up pretty well with what the GAZ's
have as expeditionary type forces (but ignore the equipment lists in X10).
For example X10 gives Karameikos 8000 troops for the war which is exactly
the number of peasant levies called up for war in GAZ1. The GAZ has about
1000-2000 better trained fulltime troops which have very specific defensive
stations around the nation. I assumed the Duke would not send these off to
war.
Ostland and Vestland have already been mentioned, and I think there are
other nations that while they may or may not have additional troops
available would be vary rough going to invade even if all the listed armies
were off campaigning:
Glantri (low population, you can march your armies wherever you want, but
loose 100-600 men per DAY depending on how energetic the wizards are
feeling).
Darokin(HUGE population. As I play X10 I am keeping track of replacements
added to armies. In addition to listed armies Darokin can choose to field
BattleSystem style peasant mobs in the 10's of thousands, but against the
Masters armies they will die in droves and if they run out...)
Elfheim(ummmmm.... just don't even try it without lots of foresters and
wizards... or elves)
Rockhome(again HUGE population compared to the listed armies, plus stone
cities built like Roman fortified villas)
Thaytis(mind boggling population. Assume a whopping 5000 of the masters
troops approach the capitol. If one out of 100 citizens takes up arms
that's 10,000 defending the walls. Then add in the stuff we know about from
the GAZ like the airforce. Even if the master wins how do whats left of
5000 troops control a city of 990,000? )
We haven't got far enough for me to read up on the rest, but I just wanted
to give the nations their due.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 08:14:40 -0400
From: Castille Baromon de Preto <inour12@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject: Re: Taymor and Varellya
>
> Perhaps, what happened to Taymor was similar to a
> Noah's Ark story where the few good people of Taymor
> got onto the fleets and survived while the rest
> perished? Of course, a few bad elements also survived
> to create the lesser Kron in recent times...
>
Let's try this...
There is no known Tamor in the Hollow World (at least not known). Was the Tamor culture so bad, that not a single immortal tried to preserve it? Even the Nithians got better treatment. Or did a group of immortals intervene in the preservation because they wanted change for the Tamor? If so, I like the Noah's Arc idea. So a few selected very reverent followers were instructed on building an artifact to keep one city or town afloat. This kept a segment of Tamor alive, but the Sea of Dread is very dangerous. Most of the Tamor die over the years of staying at sea. Descendants are very skeptical of living on land, believing they are cursed and they would make it sink by living there. Then a great northward migration of proto-Thyatians begins. A few boats full of vigorous and robust peoples, just happen (AKA immortal intervention) to come across a few rafts of a dying city. The Tamor descendants at first welcome the new people and share their lifestyles with them, but t
!
his sharing also brings in unwanted ideas, like piracy. Soon various sub-cultures begin, and we have people breaking off, like Kron. Other cultures could be like that old 50's B movie of Spanish Inquisitors living in the Bermuda Triangle on kelp bound lost galleons, who sacrifice virgins to a giant squid.
What do you think?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 09:11:07 -0400
From: Geoff Gander <au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: Taymor and Varellya
> Let's try this...
> There is no known Tamor in the Hollow World (at least not known). Was the Tamor culture so bad, that not a single immortal tried to preserve it? Even the Nithians got better treatment. Or did a group of immortals intervene in the preservation because they wanted change for the Tamor?
<snip rest>
On a hunch, I checked the Vaults, and 'lo and behold, James Mishler
created a HW counterpart to Taymor, called the Bahlor Empire, in far
southern Iciria. He only introduced the idea, and didn't develop it much,
but there's nothing saying anyone here couldn't flesh it out a bit more.
Of course, that's not to say that some fragment of Taymoran culture
couldn't exist in the surface world, too.
Geoff
--
Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02
Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer
Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy
au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 09:32:25 -0400
From: Castille Baromon de Preto <inour12@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject: Re: Taymor and Varellya
>
> Anyone care to do an
> Almanac-style description of the new nation?
>
Name: Katonate Confederacy
Location: Floating City and colonial rafts, South of the Isle of Dread
Government: Confederacy of Democratic Priests
Religion: Various, main religion of the City consists of taboos against using land dwelling technology and tools.
Tech Level: Bronze Age (With various Clerical Advancements)
Errata: The Main Confederation that makes up this nation consists of the surface dwelling inhabitants. Other members of the Confederacy are Kna and merfolk that live in colonies below the surface of the City Confederate. Unlike the Sea of Dread merfolk, these people are living in deep water, and need the help and protection of the Air breathers above them. Another interesting note, whales are considered citizens and even have priests in the Confederacy, but their language is very long and hard to comprehend.
Colonial rafts have various other rules and religions, some are extreme cults or mercenary in behavior. The most nefarious are given colonies on the outer rim, hence the term “rimmers” for people not living within the main city or closest colonies. The term is also used for colonies not using the priest system of democracy.
The Capital City consists of an artifact that keeps the city afloat and is used to keep the main colonies in formation around the city. Priests have learned to culture a kelp like plant that is extremely buoyant and tough. This is also the main crop for manufactured goods like clothing, paper, and building material.
Their democracy consists of voting privileges based upon surface ownership, thus the priests that culture more kelp are the dominant political machines. Rimmers keep power by building from remnants of lost ships, purchased or stolen wood, or other means of creating buoyancy on the surface. Merfolk and whales are not allowed to vote based on this premise, but are given a council of priests to represent their interests at the capital.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 16:25:29 +0200
From: Giampaolo Agosta <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
Subject: Re: Taymor Timeline Wanted!
Havard Faanes wrote:
>
> Awsome!
> Am I right in assuming that whats seen in the
> northeastern corner is actually Nithia?
I think so.
> How much of
> that map and which parts would be covered by Taymor?
I don't know what James Mishler had in mind. IMO, it should cover what
now is Ierendi, the Five Shires, Karameikos (except the Vyalia lands and
the Altan Tepee if you consider Taymora proper), and the Sea of Dread
between Karameikos and Ierendi. Perhaps it should also cover Southern
Darokin. It would not cover modern Thyatis, which was a forested land,
and was first settled by the elves and the Doulakki.
--
Giampaolo Agosta
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:24:55 -0400
From: Castille Baromon de Preto <inour12@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject: Katonate Culture
Katonate culture consists of the emphasis that the priests bring life. The priests culture kelp that they can build on, eat, and build and cloth with. Priests developed a system of writing that does not need clay tablets, clay is very hard to get item on the ocean. Since it is hard to read on green paper, the priest developed their writing system much like brail. Just run the sacred text through your fingertips and just like magic, you can read at night since there is no lamp oil on the ocean. So books are stored in ribbons about a half-inch wide by 200-300 feet long. Hence the use of reels and not scrolls. The main problem with kelp is fire, dried kelp will burn in an instant. Many disasters have caused the ban for fire without permits in many colonies. The capital city has soil, rock and native plant life from the mainland. The main temple is literally a floating and hanging garden, think 7 Wonders of the World. At the heart of the garden is the priest’s m
!
ain artifact, a fabulously crafted living obsidian jewel. This jewel is 15 feet in diameter, and priest can use chips from the jewel to craft major priestly items, and over time the gem grows back. Slivers have been crafted into things like swords of slicing, floating plazas (to create new colonies), and obsidian seeds to grow new kelp beds from. All items take many generations of priests to create; hence the slow rise of the Katonate. High Priests, priests with a lot of voting power, are easily recognized by their solitary use of cotton cloth dyed with purple ink from mollusks that are grown specifically for this use. Since cotton only grows in the temple gardens, only priests have access to cotton linens.
>
> From: Castille Baromon de Preto <inour12@BELLSOUTH.NET>
> Date: 2002/08/30 Fri AM 09:32:25 EDT
> To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
> Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Taymor and Varellya
>
> >
> > Anyone care to do an
> > Almanac-style description of the new nation?
> >
> Name: Katonate Confederacy
> Location: Floating City and colonial rafts, South of the Isle of Dread
> Government: Confederacy of Democratic Priests
> Religion: Various, main religion of the City consists of taboos against using land dwelling technology and tools.
> Tech Level: Bronze Age (With various Clerical Advancements)
> Errata: The Main Confederation that makes up this nation consists of the surface dwelling inhabitants. Other members of the Confederacy are Kna and merfolk that live in colonies below the surface of the City Confederate. Unlike the Sea of Dread merfolk, these people are living in deep water, and need the help and protection of the Air breathers above them. Another interesting note, whales are considered citizens and even have priests in the Confederacy, but their language is very long and hard to comprehend.
> Colonial rafts have various other rules and religions, some are extreme cults or mercenary in behavior. The most nefarious are given colonies on the outer rim, hence the term “rimmers” for people not living within the main city or closest colonies. The term is also used for colonies not using the priest system of democracy.
> The Capital City consists of an artifact that keeps the city afloat and is used to keep the main colonies in formation around the city. Priests have learned to culture a kelp like plant that is extremely buoyant and tough. This is also the main crop for manufactured goods like clothing, paper, and building material.
> Their democracy consists of voting privileges based upon surface ownership, thus the priests that culture more kelp are the dominant political machines. Rimmers keep power by building from remnants of lost ships, purchased or stolen wood, or other means of creating buoyancy on the surface. Merfolk and whales are not allowed to vote based on this premise, but are given a council of priests to represent their interests at the capital.
>
> ********************************************************************
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>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 16:42:05 +0200
From: Giampaolo Agosta <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
Subject: Re: Taymor and Varellya
Havard Faanes wrote:
>
> Kna!
> Exactly the ones I was thinking about. The Shark-kin
> (The g was a typo) might be apporpriate if the
> Kronians are indeed evil. Kopru hanging out near the
> Isle of Dread might have some contact with them
> aswell.
I think the Kna are more appropriate in any case, as they are more traders than hunter-gatherers.
Kopru might also work.
> Perhaps the Greater Kron might be a "good" nation,
> while the known entropy worshippers were all driven
> away when the lesser part split away. Evil Kronians
> might worship the Gods of Taymor (whoever they were,
> Hel, Thanatos?)
Nyx, mostly, with the civil war being fought by rebel followers of Thanatos against the Nyx-worshipping establishment.
Other Immortals, not necessarily entropic, could include Asterius and Khoronus. I doubt that Taymora was an all-evil nation, or even an all-chaotic nation like modern Hule.
Most likely, the Nyx cult took over due to the negative point of view about light developed during the GRoF time.
However, Nyx is not evil, and neither were, in general, her Nosferatu followers. Much like in Nimmur, she appears as a force of balance and preservation, and even creation, rather than as a force of destruction, as do other Entropics.
> or even have adapted younger ones like
> the patron of the Shark-kin (Again I forgot the
> name...Sskass?)
Saasskas is the patron of Devilfishes. He could be appropriate, as could Crakkak the Sharp Tooth, who is, IIRC, the patron of Shark-kin.
> Perhaps, what happened to Taymor was similar to a
> Noah's Ark story where the few good people of Taymor
> got onto the fleets and survived while the rest
> perished? Ofcourse, a few bad elements also survived
> to create the lesser Kron in recent times...
Well, I don't think Kron is especially good or bad. They are much likely
to be neutral on average. The leadership in "War Rafts" is manipulated
by an evil sorceror, true, but I don't think Kron would ever be a
self-sufficient city, nor one able to produce trade goods that it can
exchange with the Sea People, except by raiding.
--
Giampaolo Agosta
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 16:57:24 +0200
From: Giampaolo Agosta <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
Subject: Re: Taymor and Varellya
Castille Baromon de Preto wrote:
>
> Let's try this...
> There is no known Tamor in the Hollow World (at least not known). Was the Tamor culture so bad, that not a single immortal tried to preserve it?
My idea: the Taymoran included not only a "core" Taymoran culture, but were more like a confederation of different nations, where the original Taymoran city-states were predominant.
Many of these cultures survived the sunk--the Vyalia, for example, but also the other elves and the Albarendi (Ierendi albinoes). The main Immoertal interested in the Taymoran culture was Nyx, who had this experiment of her with an undead race (Nosferatu). According to James Mishler's work, she preserved that culture in the Bhalor Empire in the Hollow World.
The rest of the Taymorans mixed with other civilizations, bringing on many different Kingdoms in far-off lands. Cestia would be the most directly influenced nation, but IMO also some nations in the IoD would have been touched by the Taymoran exodus, which could have arrived as far as Minaea (here I should ask Captain Scaevola about his Minaean projects... would a Taymoran immigration around 1300-1500 AC fit?).
> The Tamor descendants at first welcome the new people and share their lifestyles with them, but this shari
> ng also brings in unwant
> ed ideas, like piracy. Soon various sub-cultures begin, and we have people breaking off, like Kron. Other cultures could be like that old 50's B movie of Spanish Inquisitors living in the Bermuda Triangle on kelp bound lost galleons, who sacrifice virgins to a giant squid.
> What do you think?
Good ideas. Especially the B-movie lost Spanish inquisitors and their
human sacrifices. They could be enemies of the Kna people (who follow
Sharpcrest Squid Slayer), and be under the control of intelligent
Krakens or Kopru schemers.
--
Giampaolo Agosta
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 11:37:10 -0400
From: Castille Baromon de Preto <inour12@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject: Re: Katonate Culture
Katonate surface dwellers also depend on the priests for disease control and prevention. Many a colony that did not head the laws of the priests has died away due to scurvy. The priests will use their gardens to grow certain herbs and fruits to prepare a special wine used in daily rituals by all the Katonate surface dwellers. This keeps scurvy under control, and followers in line. Rimmers preying on shipping and mainlanders can plunder or trade for mainland fruits and circumvent scurvy, and are therefore harder to keep under control by the priests. Other rimmer colonies have tried to grow their own gardens to create the priest’s wine, only to create undesirable effects like addiction, madness, euphoria, or combinations of these effects. Another use of control by surface dwellers, and the main reason behind their voting power, water. The seasonal rains are the main source of fresh water to drink and grow their gardens. The best way to collect and catch this wate
!
r is by surface area. The more surface area you own, the more water you can collect. Thus you can have one vote, or gill, for every gill you own of water. The measurement of a gill is 55 gallons. Note: the voting system is based on the quantity of water you own, not the amount you can collect. Acolytes will periodically assess your wealth and certify your gill worth and thus your power in voting and government. Water theft or vandalism is punishable by death of family, thus destroying one’s well will not give an individual family more voting power.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 11:46:32 -0400
From: Castille Baromon de Preto <inour12@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject: Re: Taymor and Varellya
>
> Well, I don't think Kron is especially good or bad. They are much likely
> to be neutral on average. The leadership in "War Rafts" is manipulated
> by an evil sorceror, true, but I don't think Kron would ever be a
> self-sufficient city, nor one able to produce trade goods that it can
> exchange with the Sea People, except by raiding.
> --
>
Perhaps the Priestly Kelp beds produce something the Kna or Kopru can utilize that the raft people don't need. Fruit of somkind that is normally poisoness, except to Kna and Kopru... maybe even addictive...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 16:48:08 +0100
From: Colin Wilson <c.d.wilson@DURHAM.AC.UK>
Subject: Taymor
Since there's so much mention of Taymor at the moment I thought I'd ask an
obvious question.
What are the canon sources for Taymor info.
I recall reading something in the undersea crucible. Anywhere else?
Cheers,
Col.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 12:01:33 -0400
From: Castille Baromon de Preto <inour12@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject: Re: Taymor
>
> Since there's so much mention of Taymor at the moment I thought I'd ask an
> obvious question.
>
> What are the canon sources for Taymor info.
>
> I recall reading something in the undersea crucible. Anywhere else?
>
Yes, the War Rafts of Kron. An excellent underwater adventure. Most of the rules for the Undersea Creature Crucible were adapted from this module.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 12:49:00 EDT
From: Alex Benson <Alex295@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Various Blackmoor Questions
Out of lurker mode for a bit. I have need of some info for a project that
involves Blackmoor.
1) Brun or SKothar? Canon leaves reasonable doubt as to where Blackmoor
actually was. WHat I am thinking about doing is using the HW/CoM map where
Blackmoor is given as being in Skothar. I'll explain the contradictory
Glantrian Elves and creation of the Broken Lands as a result of those
Blackmoor being overseas colonies. Any thoughts?
2) Wasn't there a downloadable Blackmoor map that someone made from the DA
series maps? I know there was because I have it somewhere. I just cannot find
it at the moment. Anyone have a URL?
3) In the DA series, there was mention of other peoples. I recall that
someone had worked out what had happened to these peoples after the DA series
stopped off. Any info on this? I am looking for info beyond what is
illustrated in the CoM racial migration map.
4) In the Ethengar Gaz there is a brief blurb about the Ethie being one of
the old races. I recall discussion of this on the MML ages ago. I cannot
remember who had the info (Geoff, Marco?)
Okay. With those asked let me offer a bit of an explanation. The BM info is
two-fold. First, it will be most welcome for the M-Vampire project I am
doing. Mostbof the above is for detail work and fact checking.
Second, I have become addicted to Crimson Skies (PC Game) and have the idea
of implementing the setting into the mid-tech level BM society. It's a
swashbuckling setting created by FASA. See www.crimsonskies.com. For that, I
have the Age of Air Piracy having a brief but bloody reign.
It is born as BM stretches its borders across the seas and uses these
untapped wilderness areas to feed its industrial base. Colonization creates
domains and rivals bidding for power on the "new contient". Their economies
are fed by cargo shipments back to the "homeland". AND provide a market for
BM goods.
Transporting these materials falls to the zepplin. With few roads and
dangerous borders to cross, air transport seems the best option. Zepplins are
preyed upon by rival domains and often air pirates. Defense is given an added
facet as these colonial domains fight each other, the indigenous peoples, and
the pirates to survive. Confounding this are BM's old enemies (foriegn and
domestic) that seek to strangle and weaken BM by halting the flow of
materials.
The Age of Air Piracy dies due to technical advancements in the art of air
defenses. Radar removes the mighty zepplin as a flying base of ops as stealth
is essentially removed. Aircraft improvements give advantages to the BM
friendly forces. Pirate and non-BM forces cannot compete against the tech
superiority on aircraft. Air defenses improve allowing coordinated static and
mobile defenses. Improved infrastructure reduces the viability of zepplin
based transport.
The skilled and cunning aerial knight is overthrown by the tech based ground
defesnes. He is thrown into a side role, supporting ground based units. But
fear not, the warrior caste is preserved as mechanized armor takes the
airplane's place and developes into the battlemech type warmachines leading
up to BM destruction.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 13:11:29 EDT
From: Alex Benson <Alex295@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: I'm Back...I think
Hey all,
I have been back in lurker status for a while. My occupational work schedule
has been odd and my free time has been limited. Thanks to some comp problems
I had a major set back in my Mystara projects. Lesson #1 always save and back
up files. I took a major break from Mystara due to this. The mere thought of
redoing all the lost Mystara material is something I still dread and am
struggling through. Then I got into Asheron's Call 2 Beta. I welcomed that
diversion as a player and tester. Became reintroduced to Crimson Skies during
a AC2 beta server maintenance period.
Anyway, I think that I am back in some sense of regularity.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 16:08:30 +0000
From: Agathokles <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
Subject: Re: Revised Taymoran history
Geoff Gander wrote:
>
> If you really want to trace things way back, and if you use Lhomarr and
> its related information IYC, you could add that influence, too. When I
> created that culture, I tried to base it on popular conceptions of
> Atlantis - generally Mediterranean in flavour, but nothing specific.
> Exactly how such a connection could be made is problematic, owing to the
> great length of time between the cultures, but it might be possible.
I took some time to search for a possible connection between Taymora and
Lhomarr.
I find two potential hooks:
1) The migration to Addakia of the survivors of Lhomarr. They are said
to have been destroyed by local barbarian tribes, but some could have
mde it to Brun.
2) Thonians are probably not an offshot of the Neathar/Skandaharian
root, thet might have been Lhomarrian in origin, like the Yanifey. The
Thonians are the direct ancestors of Taymora, so also Taymorans would be
an offshot of the original Lhomarrian culture, one that kept more to the
roots of its language and culture, apparently.
Both options seem valid, and both could be used at the same time.
Opinions?
--
Giampaolo Agosta
agathokles@libero.it
agosta@elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:23:38 +0000
From: Agathokles <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
Subject: Re: Taymor and Varellya
Castille Baromon de Preto wrote:
>
> >
> > Well, I don't think Kron is especially good or bad. They are much likely
> > to be neutral on average. The leadership in "War Rafts" is manipulated
> > by an evil sorceror, true, but I don't think Kron would ever be a
> > self-sufficient city, nor one able to produce trade goods that it can
> > exchange with the Sea People, except by raiding.
> > --
> >
> Perhaps the Priestly Kelp beds produce something the Kna or Kopru can utilize that the raft people don't need. Fruit of somkind that is normally poisoness, except to Kna and Kopru... maybe even addictive...
Addictive would be perfect. And the Kna would fit better in this scheme,
for the Kopru would just enslave the people and force the priests to
grow kelp for free.
--
Giampaolo Agosta
agathokles@libero.it
agosta@elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:46:53 -0700
From: Joe Kelly <joe_kelly@DAVIS.CA>
Subject: Re: I'm Back...I think
Welcome back Alex!
:) JK Wolf
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 13:59:55 -0400
From: Castille Baromon de Preto <inour12@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject: Re: Katonate Culture
Katonate Priests worship a pantheon of immortals. Ksaaul-Posiedon, is the favored immortal of the working classes, as their day to day survival depends on his gratefulness. Tempikaaul-Nyx has a strong following among priests in the colonies, especially among the rimmers. Nuaaul-Koritiku, has a strong following, especially among the pirate colonies. Iilluaaul-Khoronus, is the main immortal of the capital city. Vrroapaaul-new immortal, is the main immortal for the whale priests. Then you have the lesser immortals, Ukinal-Odin, Hykanal-Loki, and Doomintal-Ilsundal; lesser as they have little interests or following.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 14:10:25 -0400
From: SteelAngel <edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU>
Subject: Re: I'm Back...I think
On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Alex Benson wrote:
> Anyway, I think that I am back in some sense of regularity.
Yay!
Welcome back! Hopefully we can get back to working on Snarta and the
Pgnomes/Divergans again!
Ethan - Lazy bum.
--
Kinard 210 Linux Guru
Webmaster www.steelangel.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 14:33:00 -0400
From: Castille Baromon de Preto <inour12@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject: Re: Katonate Culture
Katonate Errata
Priest Spell Ideas
Remove Salt, Purify Food & Water
Remove Saltiness, Poison Food & Water
Flora Fauna
Lion Fish, likes to hide in kelp beds, highly poisonous and only a couple of inches in length.
Devil Fish, in any ocean, these will always be your enemy.
Giant Sea Horse, main beast of burden.
Topi Fish, these deep-sea fish will occasionally come up near the surface of the capital. These 2-3 foot long, black fish are highly prized for their fish oil. When prepared correctly, it can make you walk on any surface of water; if prepared wrong , this oil just turned the victim in a topi.
Electric Jellyfish, alla Sponge Bob. Makes buzzing noise right before it shocks you.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 14:56:51 -0400
From: Geoff Gander <au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: Various Blackmoor Questions
>
> Out of lurker mode for a bit. I have need of some info for a project that
> involves Blackmoor.
Welcome back!
> 4) In the Ethengar Gaz there is a brief blurb about the Ethie being one of
> the old races. I recall discussion of this on the MML ages ago. I cannot
> remember who had the info (Geoff, Marco?)
I can't remember either, but I seem to recall someone (possibly me)
theorising that the Ethies are descended from the Peshwah horse warriors.
It seemed to be a natural fit, anyway. Likewise, I seem to recall some
people thinking that the Skandaharians might have retained some of their
culture, and become the modern Northmen. I have no idea whether or not we
tried to figure out what the ultimate fate of the Duchy of Ten or the Egg
of Coot might have been.
In my work on Littonia, I had the Littonians being the descendants of the
Valemen, who were among the first conquests of the Afridhi.
Hope this helps,
Geoff
--
Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02
Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer
Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy
au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 21:16:44 +0000
From: Agathokles <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
Subject: Re: I'm Back...I think
Alex Benson wrote:
>
> The mere thought of
> redoing all the lost Mystara material is something I still dread and am
> struggling through.
Yeah, I can understand the feeling... I hope you will do the Glantri/PS
crossover, though!
Anyway, welcome back :)
--
Giampaolo Agosta
agathokles@libero.it
agosta@elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:16:15 -0500
From: Mischa Gelman <mgelman@CITY-NET.COM>
Subject: Re: Various Blackmoor Questions
On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Alex Benson wrote:
> 1) Brun or SKothar? Canon leaves reasonable doubt as to where Blackmoor
> actually was. WHat I am thinking about doing is using the HW/CoM map where
> Blackmoor is given as being in Skothar. I'll explain the contradictory
> Glantrian Elves and creation of the Broken Lands as a result of those
> Blackmoor being overseas colonies. Any thoughts?
The Blackmoor cataclysm affected more than just the kingdom itself - DA1
merely states that "It was in Blackmoor, you see, that the cataclysm
originated." Also, the Broken Lands are merely the "shattered shores" of
Blackmoor - it is highly possible that the distant parts of the kingdom
were torn from the mainland and eventually redistributed elsewhere, given
the size of the disaster.
(Finally, I don't like the HW version, as it puts Thonia NW of Blackmoor,
directly opposite of the Arneson material).
> 2) Wasn't there a downloadable Blackmoor map that someone made from the DA
> series maps? I know there was because I have it somewhere. I just cannot find
> it at the moment. Anyone have a URL?
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/zimriel/Blackmoor/WorldOfBM.gif - you need the
originals to make out details given the size of the scanned maps
- Mischa
[A]ll the fine arts promote virtue while virtue is in fashion. After that
they promote luxury...corruption, prostitution, and every specie of
advanced depravity. - John Adams
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:22:35 -0500
From: Mischa Gelman <mgelman@CITY-NET.COM>
Subject: Re: Various Blackmoor Questions
On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, Geoff Gander wrote:
> I can't remember either, but I seem to recall someone (possibly me)
> theorising that the Ethies are descended from the Peshwah horse warriors.
For an alternative history, I trace the Jennites to the Peshwah
(http://dnd.starflung.com/jennite.html for the details)
> culture, and become the modern Northmen. I have no idea whether or not we
> tried to figure out what the ultimate fate of the Duchy of Ten or the Egg
> of Coot might have been.
The Egg was never a very stable entity (politically or in terms of
sanity) and its followers were brainwashed or mercenaries, not a cohesive
culture. I find it very plausible that Coot didn't exist 100 years after
the DA series ended.
- Mischa
All works must become thus old and insipid which have ever tried to be
"modern," which have consented to smell of time rather than eternity. Only
those who have stooped to be in advance of their time will ever find
themselves behind it. - G.K. Chesterton
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 23:34:23 -0400
From: Geoff Gander <au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: Various Blackmoor Questions
Mischa wrote:
> (Finally, I don't like the HW version, as it puts Thonia NW of Blackmoor,
Of course, Bruce Heard later admitted that the TSR mappers made a mistake
there - Thonia and Blackmoor were reversed on the map.
Geoff
--
Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02
Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer
Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy
au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091
------------------------------
End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 29 Aug 2002 to 30 Aug 2002 (#2002-226)
****************************************************************