Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 16 Oct 2002 to 17 Oct 2002 (#2002-269) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 18/10/2002, 18:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 12 messages totalling 654 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. How much coins is 1 kg? (4) 2. mystaranet.com gone? 3. Nightmare Project Page - updated 4. [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: The Kingdom of Floating Ar (mini-gaz)] 5. Gold 6. Darokin 7. mobility (was:coins in kg?) 8. Zeitgeist Games Website updated 9. ? Coins = 1 Kg ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:02:57 +0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ville_V_L=E4hde?= Subject: Re: How much coins is 1 kg? There is one slight problem with calculations about "cn" and weight in lbs or kgs. I remember from the OD&D books that "cn" signifies not only weight, but also the bulkiness of the object. (I may remember this wrong, but unfortunately i don't have the books in front of me right now.) This has always been a bit of a problem in the system, since it makes coins, armour and various objects incomparable at times. Could someone check the weight limits in the game and compare them to the 20-22 coins = 1 kg equation? That way we could see how many kgs an ordinary person can carry around. (Of course this in itself is problematic, as armour and other stuff is evenly distributed around the body, and thus easier to carry - however they are summed up with the stuff carried in bags, sacks etc.) Still, it would be a good way to see what the cn-kg equation means. 20cn-1kg sounds a lot, if we see gold coins as modern coins. But in RW there have been very heavy "coins" indeed. In Sweden they used "taalari" (I couldn't find the English word), a large sheet of metal with a golden stamp printed in the middle. It could weight a lot. I think the main thing here is wheter a common person can easily carry with her/him the amount of money to buy a meal, a few pints, some small grocery items etc. If the everyday money pouch of a comfortably well of person is several kgs, then clearly we are amiss. (Another problem is of course the relative uselessness of copper and silver coins, is one looks at the price tables.) But all in all, it would be a nice thing to know how much matter the adventurers can actually lug around after looting. (Bag of holding would countain 455-500 kg at most?) And by the way, in Darokin they actually have "paper money", or printed orders of payment. Ville ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 11:58:12 +0200 From: Richard Eckart Subject: mystaranet.com gone? Hi folks Does anybody know what happened to mystaranet.com? They had some nice ressources. Richard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:16:18 +0200 From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: How much coins is 1 kg? Ville V L=E4hde wrote: > There is one slight problem with calculations about "cn" and weight in = lbs > or kgs. I remember from the OD&D books that "cn" signifies not only > weight, but also the bulkiness of the object. (I may remember this = wrong, > but unfortunately i don't have the books in front of me right now.) = This > has always been a bit of a problem in the system, since it makes = coins, > armour and various objects incomparable at times. Yes, I remember that as well from the old books, but I was quoting from = the Rules Cyclopedia pg. 63: "One coin weighs one-tenth of a pound." > Could someone check the weight limits in the game and compare them to = the > 20-22 coins =3D 1 kg equation? That way we could see how many kgs an > ordinary person can carry around. (Of course this in itself is > problematic, as armour and other stuff is evenly distributed around = the > body, and thus easier to carry - however they are summed up with the = stuff > carried in bags, sacks etc.) Still, it would be a good way to see what = the > cn-kg equation means. I'll just assume 20 cns =3D 1 kg for convenience. Going by 22 cns =3D = 1kg, the figures are a little lower. For normal movement speeds (feet = per turn): 0-400 cns (0-20 kg): 120' 401-800 cns (20-40 kg): 90' 801-1200 cns (40-60 kg): 60' 1201-1600 cns (60-80 kg): 30' 1601-2400 cns (80-120 kg): 15' 2401+ cns (>120 kg): 0' For overland travel a character is considered lightly encumbered at = 20-40 kg, heavily encumbered at 40-60 kg. You can carry a belt pouch with 50 coins "comfortably" (though it weighs = around 2.5 kg), while also wearing some equipment. That should be more = than enough for everyday needs. However, hauling around 2 large sacks = with 600 coins each (that's 60 kg) from that dragon's lair, will slow = you to a crawl. All this is of course OD&D, where the strength stat does not affect = carrying capacity... Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:00:37 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?la=20Volpe?= Subject: Nightmare Project Page - updated Hello all Mystarans! "A Dark Portal", the Nightmare's Project Home Page, has been updated. You will find the following stuff: * "Zhochal Shocklance", by Geoff Gander. A new dangerous weapon by the Carnifex LoreMaster himself; * "Multiverses", the fourth part of "A Complete Guide to the Cosmos", by Giulio N. Caroletti, including "Law, order & the Grand Illusion", giving a summary of multiverses and the relationship within the True Gods since the time of their victory over the Outer Beings. All these articles have already appeared on the Mystara Mailing List. Feedback and criticism are always welcome! Enjoy! http://www.geocities.com/iuliusscaevola ______________________________________________________________________ Mio Yahoo!: personalizza Yahoo! come piace a te http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.my.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:02:48 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?la=20Volpe?= Subject: Re: [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: The Kingdom of Floating Ar (mini-gaz)] The dwarven ambassador's quote made me roll on the floor laughing. Good work as usual! And more of our enemies' secrets uncovered... Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ______________________________________________________________________ Mio Yahoo!: personalizza Yahoo! come piace a te http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.my.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:22:54 -0400 From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: How much coins is 1 kg? Jacob wrote: > All this is of course OD&D, where the strength stat does not affect carrying capacity... IIRC, the AD&D 2E Players Handbook has a table for modifiers to encumbrance based on Strength. We considered doing something like that for our campaign, but then again, it would be another set of numbers to track, and at the end of the day, we were happy with the version of OD&D we were using. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02 Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 11:55:24 -0600 From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: Gold The problem is, if gold is too pure, it's actually too soft to use ;) You cannot have pure gold coins. ----- Original Message ----- From: "adrian mattias" Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 12:15 AM Subject: Re: How much coins is 1 kg? > You would normally expect that a coin would be made of pure metal (at least > as pure as the technology of the time allows anyway). As value was based on > the actual rate at which the metal could be bought (unlike today's paper > money which is merely a promise by the government that the note is worth > what it says it is worth), if you start debasing the metal which makes the > coin, i.e. cutting copper with gold, or as the Romans did in the 2nd Century > AD, nickel in the silver Denarii which went from 90% pure to less than 60% ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 11:10:13 -0700 From: "Ohad Shaham (Morphail)" Subject: Re: Darokin Hi Jonathan. I have written a file about that once. (and upgraded it lately). Updates include domain names for DND 3e. I relied partly on domains I saw at the Mystara 3e website. Part from that it is similier to a file I wrote thow years ago (it is somewhere on Stan's site). Here it is: {This can be distributed to players as a handout} Arnad Fadon, the vice-patriarch of Khoronus in Darokin city, to a Hin traveler researching about the immortals of the land: "So, you seek knowledge about the Immortals that are worshiped in the republic? Well you came to right man. I, my son, am the second in the line of priests to Khoronus or as you may know him- Father Time. First I will answer your questions, and describe the faiths in Darokin, but than I want to tell you about our wonderful and awesome temple in Akorros. As you are a traveler who seeks knowledge about immortals and priests this temple is a wonder you must see. Now, little one, I am beginning so brace yourself and try not to wonder off. I will be as brief as I can. I know your race sometimes has a short attention span…" Immortals and Churches in Darokin Darokin has no state religion per say. The political rulers of the republic receive their power through money, which is what some may call "the real immortal of Darokin". The different churches in Darokin follow various immortals and the state does not intervene with the religious beliefs of the people. Every church has a crowd of followers that may vary at times. Each citizen is allowed to pray in every church he likes within the land and he or she can be a follower of several deities at a time. For example, a craftsman may pray to Kagyar each morning for the success of his work, but also attend prayers at the local temple of Halav to ask that immortal's help in Darokin's military efforts. This is not true for priests, who devote their entire life and soul to the worship of a specific immortal *. A priest of Koryis will follow that immortal through out his career and so will a druid of Djaea. There are more than a dozen widely worshipped deities in Darokin and almost every other known immortal has some followers in our great nation. There is one restriction though. Very few churches will tolerate the existence of evil cults, following of Demons or the practice of necromantic magic. If such cults are discovered, usually the high priests of the good churches will order their destruction. City Patrons: All large cities and towns in Darokin have a patron immortal. This immortal is regarded as protector and benefactor of the town and its people. Often, the immortal patron has a large flock of worshippers within the city, but not necessarily the largest. Cities and their patrons are: Darokin: Asterius Akorros: Khoronus Corunglen: Halav Akesoli: none Selenica: Ixion Athenos: Protius Tenobar: Protius Dolos: Koryis Nemiston: Kagyar Ansimont: Petra Here some of the known immortals who are worshipped in Darokin. I will try to list them in order of their churches' size. But this tends to change all the time so don't pay to much attention to the order. Asterius: Asterius is the most important immortal in Darokin. He is the patron of Darokin City and the most widely worshipped immortal in the nation. Asterius is the god of wealth, of commerce, communication and travel, all the ideals that our nation is known for. Asterius is also god of the moon, and patron of thieves. His temples are found all over the nation with the most impressive one in the capital city. In addition to the temples, small altars to Asterius are found along side the major roads in the country. Prayers to Asterius are made before any business transaction or before and after a caravan journey. It is said that thieves utter a silent prayer to Asterius before picking a look, but this isn't a certain fact. The dominance of the church of Asterius is the reason that thievery is not considered a major crime in Darokin. Domains- Moon, Thieves, Trade, Travel, Sphere of Thought. Undead- turn Khoronus: or Father Time, as he is known to most people, is also a very important immortal in Darokin. Khoronus is the god of time, knowledge, history, education and ruleship and to some extent of the changing seasons. He is worshiped by scholars and rulers, historians and students. Khoronus' priests are often charged with the rituals of birth and burial, which bestows to them great influence on the populace. The most impressive temple of Khoronus is found in Akorros the city which he patrons. Other large temples can be found in Darokin and Corunglen. Smaller temples abound through out the nation. Domains- Knowledge, Law, Nobility, Planning, Spere of Time Undead- turn Ixion: Otherwise known as the Sun Prince, is also a very important immortal in Darokin. Ixion drives the sun across the sky, giving warmth and life whilst banishing darkness. Ixion is the patron of the Centaur tribes that were once located in the Canolbarth forest. He is also the original patron of the city of Selenica, but his popularity is on a decrease in that city. Large temples of Ixion can be found in all major cities. Small towns and villages have small altars in which sacrifices can be made to Ixion. Farmers usually sacrifice some of their first crops to Ixion as thanks for the sunlight that helped grow the crops. During the Spring Equinox (Nuwmont 2ed) the priests of Ixion organize great feasts and dances to hasten the arrival of spring. Domains - Fire, Good, Magic, Sun, Sphere of Energy Undead- turn Djaea: Goddess of wildlife of plant and animal life, protector of farmers and patron of druids. Djaea is the incarnation of nature in Darokin (filling the niche otherwise belonging to Ordana in other places, O.Sh). Farmers across the nation erect altars for her in their fields. Djaea has no formal temples and no formal church. Instead, her loyal druids travel the countryside helping the farmers and protecting nature. These druids are well treated by the peasants and farm owners. The druids are often offered food and shelter. The snake is a sacred animal to Djaea and no faithful farmer would ever intently harm those creatures. Domains- Animal, Earth, Healing, Hin, Reptile, Plant, Sphere of Matter (or Druidism) Undead- no Kagyar: Known as Kagyar the Artisan, or Kagyar the Dwarf, this deity is the patron of crafts, arts and the entire dwarvish race. It is a custom to have a prayer to Kagyar before setting the first stone of a building in order to bless the construction process. Sacrifices to Kagyar are normally small works of art. Kagyar has no large temples, but small stone temples exist in every city and town of the republic. These temples are always made of stone and always very beautiful. Domains- Cavern, Craft, Dwarf, Earth, Fortitude, Sphere of Matter Undead- no Halav: The worship of this immortal came from Taraldara in ancient times. Since than Halav has become the most important god of war in Darokin. He is patron of heroes and soldiers and all that wield a sword. Halav is the slayer of trolls, orcs and all that is savage. Halav is the Patron of the warlike city of Corunglen. He has a large temple in the capital and Selenica also. Halav is the enemy of Karaash, god of the savage orcs. Domains- Good, Retribution,War, Sphere of Thought Undead- no Valerias: Goddess of passion and love, beauty and romance, fire and weapons. Valerias is worshiped all over the land but organized temples exist only in Darokin City, and in Selenica. Most of Valerias priests are women. Mysterious and wild ceremonies are held in her honor in her temples and in the wilderness. She is the one who lovers prey to for help against all odds. Her symbol is the rose, and like that flower she is beautiful yet dangerous, as her wrath is difficult to appease, and sacrifices are not always accepted. In the southern parts of the country, worshipers of the goddess become very rare, as these simple folk want nothing to do with passion and romance. Domains- Fate, Fire, Metal, Romance, War, Will, Sphere of Matter Undead- turn Petra: Goddess of women, of fertility, of the household and of crafts. She is the potter and the weaver. Most homes in Darokin have a small altar to Petra in their homes. These altars can be as simple as a small stool covered with cloth and on it a lantern or candle. Most villages and towns also have a small temple to Petra in which ceremonies of marriage (and divorce) are held. Petra is the protector of women and children and her priests often use her temples as shelters and orphanages. She is also the patron immortal of Ansimont. Domains- Craft, Family, Healing, Protection, War, Sphere of Time Undead- turn Koryis: God of peace and prosperity. Koryis is popular among the ranks of the Darokin Diplomatic Corps. Small temples of Koryis exist in the central parts of Darokin, but none exist in frontier towns and those alongside the borders. Whenever a pact or treaty is signed between Darokin and another nation a priest of Koryis performs a ceremony in order to sanctify the bond. Koryis is also the patron of the town of Dolos. Domains: Good, Law, Renewal, Spell, Truth, Sphere of Thought Undead- turn Protius: The old man of the sea is theatron of Darokin's ports. He is an unpredictable deity and befor a nautical voyage, most people give some sacrifice or tribute to Protius's temples. Protius's worship is scarse in inland Darokin. Domains: Animal (marine only), Chaos, Destruction, Ocean, Renewal, Strength, Water, Sphere of Time Undead- no Diulanna: Worship of this immortal arrived from Thyatis and is gaining popularity. Diulanna is a favorite deity of adventurers, hunters and athletes. The motto of her worshippers is that with enough willpower, one can accomplish anything. This notion sits well with the general attitude of Darokin as a nation. As of date, small temples of Diulanna exist only in the three large cities (Darokin, Selenica and Corunglen). Domains: Fate, Fortitude, Good, Truth, Will, Sphere of Thought Undead- turn Zirchev: This mysterious immortal is the lord of forests and wilderness. Zirchev is followed by rangers and druids of the deepest forests and the highest mountains (in contrast of Djaea's druids who exist in all wilderness and countryside environments). Lots of rare and strange creatures are holy to Zirchev, such as the white deer, the unicorn and others. People of frontier places know better than to harm these creatures in order not to wake Zirchev's wrath (and that of his druids). Domains: Animal, Illusion, Magic, Plant, Sphere of Energy Undead- no ** Ilsundal: The immortal king of elves, is the patron of the known world's elves and guardian of nature and magic. His following among humans is almost non existent. Even less known to humans is his immortal servant Mealiden, who was the first king of the elves of Alfheim. Domains: Elf, Magic, Moon, Nobility, Plant, Sphere of Energy Mealiden’s Domains: Elf, Good, Protection, Sphere of Energy Undead- no (both Ilsundal and Mealiden) Al Kalim: This Ylari immortal and his "Eternal Truth" are gaining popularity among the Alaysian descended people of Selenica. The only temple Al Kalim has is in that city, but his worship is slowly spreading to other parts of the country. Al Kalim is an immortal dedicated to law and prosperity. Domains: Desert Oasis, Fate, Law, Planning, Sun, Truth, Water, Sphere of Time Undead- no Odin: This northern god of war and wisdom is known in Darokin, but the worship of Halav overshadows the small cells of Odin worshippers. Domains: Air, Knowledge, Nobility, Rune, War, Will, Sphere of Thought Undead- turn Karaash: This orcish immortal is followed by the orcs of the northeastern "Orclands" his worship is tolerated by most churches (Halav's being an exception). Karaash is a god of savage warfare, of brutality and barren lands. His symbol is a jagged two handed swords, a popular weapon among the orcs of the region. Domains: Cavern, Chaos, Retribution,War, Sphere of Thought Undead- no Entropic Immortals: Although most of the people of Darokin are good and decent folks, cells and cults of demon worshippers are sometime found among the orcish and human population. Most common of this are those of Thanatos, god of Death, and the dark queen of Hel. While other countries might tolerate these unholy heretics, the good churches of Darokin will stand against these evils. Thanatos’s Domains: Corruption, Death, Destruction, Evil, Night, Undeath, Sphere of Entropy Hells Domains: Death, Evil, Hatred, Renewal, Undeath, Tyranny, Sphere of Entropy Undead- rebuke and control (both Hel and Thanatos) Ohad Shaham *In game terms = Most of Darokin's clerics are specialty Priests. Defenders, Druids and Paladins are also common, but Pantheists or philosophy priests are very rare, as well as crusaders. ** The immortals following this point aren't widely worshiped in Darokin by the normal populace. For PCs is better to introduce the first 12 immortals. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 11:28:23 -0700 From: "Ohad Shaham (Morphail)" Subject: Re: How much coins is 1 kg? > For overland travel a character is considered lightly encumbered at 20-40 kg, heavily encumbered at 40-60 kg. I can tell you from experience that traveling overland with 30 kg don't make you lightly encumbered. You can travel at 6km per hour with 30 kg but not without being serisously fatigued. No running for more than a few minutes too. Than again, I guess my strength and constitution scores are not more than 11... Traveling with 60 kg would be like carrying someone on your back with you. That is certainly doable, but I wouldn't go adventuring like that. Armored knights in the middle ages were probably had these kinds of weights around, but they were on horseback. Morphail --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 14:29:13 +1300 From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: mobility (was:coins in kg?) > I can tell you from experience that traveling overland with 30 kg don't > make you lightly encumbered. You can travel at 6km per hour with 30 kg > but not without being serisously fatigued. No running for more than a > few minutes too. Than again, I guess my strength and constitution scores > are not more than 11... it they were doing it on a regular basis it would be very different. > Traveling with 60 kg would be like carrying someone on your back with > you. That is certainly doable, but I wouldn't go adventuring like that. > Armored knights in the middle ages were probably had these kinds of > weights around, but they were on horseback. Full plate mail armour is probally around the 15-20kg mark + equipment at ~ 5kg, and thats not too bad. You can move and run at a resonable speed without too much trouble. Chain is at least as heavy, and an ass to carry. You are better to wear it. It could be from 6kg (an ok shirt) to 30kg+ (heavy gauge full suit). Most decent full chain shirts would be around 10kg I think. Then you have leg armour, helmet, and equipment etc. Normal Swords are about 1-2kg. Sheilds I'm not sure. I'd guess ~3-5kg depending on size. Mines plywood with no metal and not really historically acurate so I can't use it a a judge. Most knights of later periods would have competed on foot in tounaments at some point. Especially after jousting became concidered too dangerous (someone important was killed I think). The gun made armour heavier (as OD&D says magic has) and calvelry a target so a lot of the heavier armours would have been footmen. Pikes were extremely effective and take the swiss pikemen, they wore armour. And think of the weight of a pike. Knights were only hoisted into the saddle in tounaments because the armour was thicker and had more layers so was rediculously heavy. Some areas had 3 or more layers of steel at times. It was in no way combat armour which you can cartwheel in. Chris. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:56:22 -0400 From: Dustin Clingman Subject: Zeitgeist Games Website updated Hey Guys, I finally took a break to get the website up. There are some cool things up there. Take a look and let me know what you think! www.zeitgeistgames.com Dustin --- Dustin Clingman Zeitgeist Games www.zeitgeistgames.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 04:29:34 +0100 From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: ? Coins = 1 Kg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan L." To: Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 1:03 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] ? Coins = 1 Kg Hello. How much coins is 1 kg? The official D&D line was 10 coins to the pound, but the old, pre decimal, British penny was often used as a weight, in fact they still are in Big Ben. This is not the apothecary's penyweight, approx 2g, but1/3 of an ounce. It's always seemed just about the right size and weight for Mystaran copper pieces to me. So in my campaign at least there'd be around 100 to the kilogram. The question there would be "What's a kilogram?" though. ;^) Paul ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 16 Oct 2002 to 17 Oct 2002 (#2002-269) ****************************************************************