Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 5 Dec 2002 to 6 Dec 2002 (#2002-315)
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Date: 07/12/2002, 19:00
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Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion

There are 10 messages totalling 514 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

 1. Marilenev Rebellion (2)
 2. Addakia, Alphatia and Yezchamenid
 3. [jdaly@friend.ly.net: FW: Rejected posting
 4. Addakia, Yezchamenid, and Nithia
 5. Addakia  and Yezchamenid
 6. Bards in Mystara
 7. Unsavory Facts About Elves (2)
 8. Delayed Posts?!

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Date:    Fri, 6 Dec 2002 13:44:56 +0100
From:    =?iso-8859-1?q?la=20Volpe?= <iuliusscaevola@YAHOO.IT>
Subject: Re: Marilenev Rebellion

> After the actual revolt the cult would switch its
> alliance over to Stefan and
> claim him to be the true Halav reborn.  This seems
> like a very plausible
> "backstabbing-Thyatian" scheme (no offence to
> Captain Scaevola).

Offence? It sounds Thyatian indeed.
8-)

> >Or, until the PCs defeat Stefan and decide that
> >they desire the throne for themselves...
>
> If they are backstabbing-Thyatians...not that
> there's anything wrong with that!

Not at all.

Cool idea.
Let us know how the campaign goes!

=====
Iulius Sergius Scaevola
Captain of the XXth Cohort
Port Lucinius, Thyatis

"We poor few forged as brothers in this furnace
will emerge as the steel of future generations"
     --  from "Legionary's Prayers", by Ionaos Nolan

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Date:    Fri, 6 Dec 2002 13:58:45 +0100
From:    =?iso-8859-1?q?la=20Volpe?= <iuliusscaevola@YAHOO.IT>
Subject: Addakia, Alphatia and Yezchamenid

A short resume' of ideas that got to the mailing list:

1) The use of Shedu as the Alphatian symbol may come
from contacts with a lost pseudo-mesopotamic culture
or with a shedu race or because they simply liked it
or because they had that symbol when they lived in the
planet Alphatia;

2) There could be, or could have been,
in Addakia, a pseudo-mesopotamic culture that could
have influenced some of the Yezchamenid Empire's
cultures.

3) The Addakian culture had probably contacts with
the enduks and manscorpions, that are mesopotamic
in culture too.

However I was thinking that we could also have a
non human culture in Addakia, that could be related
to the enduks. Possibly this could be also a very
ancient culture. I don't know. I think I'll give
a read at the enduks' early history and think about
it.

=====
Iulius Sergius Scaevola
Captain of the XXth Cohort
Port Lucinius, Thyatis

"We poor few forged as brothers in this furnace
will emerge as the steel of future generations"
     --  from "Legionary's Prayers", by Ionaos Nolan

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------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:09:03 -0500
From:    Geoff Gander <au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: [jdaly@friend.ly.net: FW: Rejected posting

Morphail wrote:

> I hope mister Daly who has contributed much to the list would concider trying to reconsider, unless he had other reasons for leaving it.

In fact, I contacted Jeff privately, and expressed my hope that he would
return.  He did, as it turned out, have other reasons for leaving (RL).

Geoff

-- 
Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02
Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer
Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy
au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:17:42 -0500
From:    Geoff Gander <au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: Addakia, Yezchamenid, and Nithia

Agathokles wrote:

> The extent of the Nithian Empire in not much known. They certainly arrived to the Savage Baronies, and perhaps even to the Nearhuman Kingdoms area to the west, and to Thotia to the East.
> To the south, they probably did not colonize Davania--though they might have had contacts with the Milenians right before the destruction of Nithia, and to the north they colonized the Northern Reaches.

According to the HW boxed set, Nithia did, in fact, try to colonise
northern Davania.  They enslaved Antalian tribes (ancestors of the
Thyatian peoples), and brought them south to build a colony for them.  The
Thyatians, Kerendans, and Hattians revolted, and moved north in BC 600 to
mainland Thyatis, but not before destroying the nascent colony.
Presumably, there are Nithian ruins in the Hinterlands today, most likely
along the River Torion (where Raven Scarp sits) - perhaps that lake
further upstream has a ruined Nithian port and temple complex somewhere
along its shores...?

Geoff

-- 
Geoff Gander, BA 97, MPA 02
Carnifex Loremaster/Mad Roleplayer
Master of the Elemental Plane of Bureaucracy
au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:08:31 -0800
From:    John Calvin <chimpman.geo@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Marilenev Rebellion

> (I
> don't have the Karameikan Gazetteer at hand now, so I don't remember what
> it says about Sergeyev and the birht of the cult.)

Well, I checked this out last night and it basically says that Sergeyev is a
lunatic, and he founded the cult in the throws of madness.  This would make the
cult a very young one with a very small following.
I like my idea better.  To reconcile the two IMC I'm going to say that the cult
has been around for at least 200 years (since the Thyatians first came), and is
now currently split into two (or perhaps more) factions - the Marilenev faction
and the Karameikos faction.  Sergeyev merely took control of the Karameikos
faction (he did not found the cult).

> I suppose that somehow we could use this idea also
> in connection to the alternate view on Stefan
> Karameikos that I wrote some time ago.
> The link to my old article is:

> http://dnd.starflung.com/dkstefan.html

I came up with another idea that might fit this well.  Assuming that Stefan is
not as nice as he appears to be, then consider this turn of events.
1) Lord Marilenev revolts.
2) Stefan uses military power to put down the rebellion.  Stefan is victorious,
and as a conqueror he -claims his rights- regarding the Lady Magda.
3) The child that the Lady Magda bears shortly thereafter is in fact the
bastard of Karameikos.  To conceal her pregnancy, Magda wears long black robes
of mourning and locks herself up in her estate.  None see her except for a few
hand-picked servants and very close friends (perhaps Christoph Torenescu).
4) Lady Magda has torn emotions about the child after it is borne.  On one hand
she knows it is the only Marilenev heir left, and on the other she despises it
for being a Karameikos.  Christoph Torenescu convinces her to give him the
child, and he will hide it from Stefan and keep it safe.
5) Christoph enlists members of the shattered Cult of Halav who refused to see
that Stefan Karameikos is Halav reborn.  He tells them about Magda's child and
enlists them to help protect it.  This breathes new life into the Marilenev
faction of the Cult.

This throws a few more twists into the plot.  When Halav reborn returns to free
his people he will do so as both a Marilenev and a Karameikos.  He will be a
true "half-breed" Karameikan, and instead of throwing out the Thyatian invaders
(as his Traladaran followers may want), he may welcome them as brothers.

-John

=====
Rule #85.
I will not use any plan in which the final step is horribly complicated, e.g. "Align
the 12 Stones of Power on the sacred altar then activate the medallion at the
moment of total eclipse." Instead it will be more along the lines of "Push the
button."

from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach

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------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:59:35 -0800
From:    John Calvin <chimpman.geo@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Addakia  and Yezchamenid

> Alternately, the Tower of M-Babel itself could have been a powerful
> "transport chamber". Climbing it, one could see the entire world, and from
> it, the Adakkian magic-users/priests transported their people.

Oh, I really like this idea.  This kind of creates an "end of the world"
scenario, where the Addakians had some forsight into what was coming.  Somehow
they would have managed to get enough of their people far enough away that they
would be spared from whatever catastrophe was to follow.

So the question then becomes, what was the catastrophe that destroyed this
ancient and powerful empire?  And how did the Addakians learn of their fate
before it was too late?

-John

=====
Rule #85.
I will not use any plan in which the final step is horribly complicated, e.g. "Align
the 12 Stones of Power on the sacred altar then activate the medallion at the
moment of total eclipse." Instead it will be more along the lines of "Push the
button."

from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 30 Nov 2002 01:50:04 +0800
From:    "Francisco V. Navarro V" <fvnmd@INFO.COM.PH>
Subject: Re: Bards in Mystara

Hail Mystarans!

Joshuan's Almanac lists Empress Lucianna Torion of Thyatis as a 5th-level
bard.

She is described as a jack-of-all-trades, skilled with etiquette, modern and
ancient languages, diplomacy, singing, playing the lyre, cantrips for
entertainment, some illusion spells, astrology. And she also goes out in
diguise as a common bard and entertainer.

Kit Navarro

> Federico Kaftal wrote:
>
> > Dunno if this topic was already discussed before:
> > are there official Bards in Mystaran Canon?
> >
> > I remember:
> > - Robrenn Rakes (really Bards, AFAIK, but not defined Bards officially)
> > - Ozata the Bard, from (AD&D) "Hail the Heroes" adventure module, based
in
> > Karameikos
> >
> > Do you remember other sources?

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 30 Nov 2002 01:43:22 +0800
From:    "Francisco V. Navarro V" <fvnmd@INFO.COM.PH>
Subject: Re: Unsavory Facts About Elves

Hail Mystarans of various races and methods of elimination!

I must say I am pleased (and honestly, not entirely surprised) at the
various viewpoints presented about elven elimination process. I admit that I
started this inquiry about elven excretory systems out of frivolous
curiosity more than anything. (Well, I must also admit that I *knew* asking
this question out loud in the MML will generate a lot of... how shall we put
this?... "talk," but hey, that's the intrigue-loving Glantrian in me! Sue
me! Feeblemind me! Imprison me in the Tower of Sighs!) Anyway, I am pleased
to see that this bit of capriciousness has actually elevated into a decent
discussion--or *indecent* for those of more sensitive sensibilities.

Here is my summary of the viewpoints, and some of my own:

A creature that does not eliminate waste probably does not produce any
waste, implying a 100% efficient metabolic system. In the natural world,
this is scientifically impossible--or at least highly improbable. And in a
FRPG world, this would imply magic at work (i.e. the old "We're so magical
that we're pure!" argument). Ohad pointed out that elves are less magical
than dragons, and I think everyone is of the impression that dragons do
excrete waste products (unless of course this is what fuels their dragon
breath--but then again, that's another argument!) Such zero-waste creatures
would indeed have to be more magical than dragons.

Ohad mentioned three examples (dryads, faeries and elementals) and it is
quite imaginable that none of these excrete waste, at least the way more
mundane mortal creatures do. I imagine that dryads are more like trees and
plants, and probably eliminate their waste products similarly (through their
skin and breath), which to other living beings (animals) may not be waste
products at all (mostly oxygen and water)! Elementals probably produce waste
that are also elemental in nature (such as smoke, ash, soot, dust, sand,
salt, brine), and cannot be compared with the organic waste of living
creatures.

And what about the anatomical parts of these creatures, particularly the
humanoid ones? Evolution shows us that disuse of an organ or body part will
lead to atrophy or non-development (like the angels in "Dogma" mentioned by
Thibault), or will allow for use for other functions (in this case probably,
sexual). Hence, elementals, no matter how humanoid in shape, will probably
be only as anatomically correct as Ken and Barbie dolls. And faeries and
dryads will probably have appendages and orifices intact for purely sexual
purposes. (Let's not go into the exact details, and just let everyone figure
them out or fantasize about them, shall we?)

Of course, the elf-hater Jason Murphy does present an interesting (and
wickedly funny point of view), that the magical, long-lived elves might
actually need to produce more waste, or maybe more potent waste products. I
have a counter-arguement to that (not that I am siding with the elves, mind
you). Instead of the arguement that magic is the reason why elven
physiognomy is so efficient and produces little waste, perhaps it's the
other way around: Elven physiognomy is so naturally efficient that all that,
not only does it waste so little, but all that matter and energy can be
tapped to generate strong magical energy. (This coincides with Chinese
medical theory that with an efficient digestive system, so can generate more
Qi or energy.) This is the same proposal above about dragons.

Of course, this "unwasted energy = magic" idea would lead to more
implications: that wizards, magic-users, and the entire Alphatian race, have
better digestive/excretory/metabolic systems than most mortal creatures from
Mystara. (At least, in the case of wizards having a healthier physiognomy,
this is probably not true.)

In any case, one thing I don't like is to let science get in the way of
fantasy, role-playing, and magic!

So let the humans speculate what the elves have underneath their trousers!
Let the humans wonder what the elves do in the woods! As for me, I will
include in my campaign some orc wokani or shaman, who is will be looking for
elf droppings as an ingredient in some sick and strange humanoid ritual!

Kit Navarro
Glantrian Speculator and Rumormonger

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 7 Dec 2002 00:04:55 +0100
From:    Thibault Sarlat <thibault.sarlat@WANADOO.FR>
Subject: Re: Unsavory Facts About Elves

thank you for the smart (and fun replies)
I really needed that now.
I like the theories.


Thibault Sarlat.
ICQ 16622177.
homepage  http://www.mystara.fr.st
Join me at:thibault.sarlat@wanadoo.fr;clenarius@hotmail.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Francisco V. Navarro V" <fvnmd@INFO.COM.PH>
To: <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Unsavory Facts About Elves


> Hail Mystarans of various races and methods of elimination!
>
> I must say I am pleased (and honestly, not entirely surprised) at the
> various viewpoints presented about elven elimination process. I admit that
I
> started this inquiry about elven excretory systems out of frivolous
> curiosity more than anything. (Well, I must also admit that I *knew*
asking
> this question out loud in the MML will generate a lot of... how shall we
put
> this?... "talk," but hey, that's the intrigue-loving Glantrian in me! Sue
> me! Feeblemind me! Imprison me in the Tower of Sighs!) Anyway, I am
pleased
> to see that this bit of capriciousness has actually elevated into a decent
> discussion--or *indecent* for those of more sensitive sensibilities.
>
> Here is my summary of the viewpoints, and some of my own:
>
> A creature that does not eliminate waste probably does not produce any
> waste, implying a 100% efficient metabolic system. In the natural world,
> this is scientifically impossible--or at least highly improbable. And in a
> FRPG world, this would imply magic at work (i.e. the old "We're so magical
> that we're pure!" argument). Ohad pointed out that elves are less magical
> than dragons, and I think everyone is of the impression that dragons do
> excrete waste products (unless of course this is what fuels their dragon
> breath--but then again, that's another argument!) Such zero-waste
creatures
> would indeed have to be more magical than dragons.
>
> Ohad mentioned three examples (dryads, faeries and elementals) and it is
> quite imaginable that none of these excrete waste, at least the way more
> mundane mortal creatures do. I imagine that dryads are more like trees and
> plants, and probably eliminate their waste products similarly (through
their
> skin and breath), which to other living beings (animals) may not be waste
> products at all (mostly oxygen and water)! Elementals probably produce
waste
> that are also elemental in nature (such as smoke, ash, soot, dust, sand,
> salt, brine), and cannot be compared with the organic waste of living
> creatures.
>
> And what about the anatomical parts of these creatures, particularly the
> humanoid ones? Evolution shows us that disuse of an organ or body part
will
> lead to atrophy or non-development (like the angels in "Dogma" mentioned
by
> Thibault), or will allow for use for other functions (in this case
probably,
> sexual). Hence, elementals, no matter how humanoid in shape, will probably
> be only as anatomically correct as Ken and Barbie dolls. And faeries and
> dryads will probably have appendages and orifices intact for purely sexual
> purposes. (Let's not go into the exact details, and just let everyone
figure
> them out or fantasize about them, shall we?)
>
> Of course, the elf-hater Jason Murphy does present an interesting (and
> wickedly funny point of view), that the magical, long-lived elves might
> actually need to produce more waste, or maybe more potent waste products.
I
> have a counter-arguement to that (not that I am siding with the elves,
mind
> you). Instead of the arguement that magic is the reason why elven
> physiognomy is so efficient and produces little waste, perhaps it's the
> other way around: Elven physiognomy is so naturally efficient that all
that,
> not only does it waste so little, but all that matter and energy can be
> tapped to generate strong magical energy. (This coincides with Chinese
> medical theory that with an efficient digestive system, so can generate
more
> Qi or energy.) This is the same proposal above about dragons.
>
> Of course, this "unwasted energy = magic" idea would lead to more
> implications: that wizards, magic-users, and the entire Alphatian race,
have
> better digestive/excretory/metabolic systems than most mortal creatures
from
> Mystara. (At least, in the case of wizards having a healthier physiognomy,
> this is probably not true.)
>
> In any case, one thing I don't like is to let science get in the way of
> fantasy, role-playing, and magic!
>
> So let the humans speculate what the elves have underneath their trousers!
> Let the humans wonder what the elves do in the woods! As for me, I will
> include in my campaign some orc wokani or shaman, who is will be looking
for
> elf droppings as an ingredient in some sick and strange humanoid ritual!
>
> Kit Navarro
> Glantrian Speculator and Rumormonger
>
> ********************************************************************
> The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp
> The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/
> To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
> with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message.
>

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 7 Dec 2002 07:45:02 +0800
From:    "Francisco V. Navarro V" <fvnmd@INFO.COM.PH>
Subject: Delayed Posts?!

Hail Mystarans!

Something must be wrong with the MML server. I sent a couple of posts on
Nov. 30 and it only came out today, December 7.

The peculiar thing is, other messages posted later than Nov. 30 (such as
those along about the Adakkian, Yezchamenid, Nithia topic) have already come
out.

The ironic thing is one of the posts in questions is an organized (if not
entirely sober) summary on elven digestive and sexual biology (aka the
Topic-thad-must-not-be-named.). Not that if this post would have saved the
membership of Jeff Daly (He did have other reasons of leaving.), but
methinks some trickster Immortal may be playing games with the MML. Or it
may simply be some chaotic chronomancer, casting time delays on the message
postings!1

Let us summon some priest of Tarastia or Djaea or Tubak the Lawgiver or
Khoronus to exorcise the list!

Kit Navarro

------------------------------

End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 5 Dec 2002 to 6 Dec 2002 (#2002-315)
**************************************************************