Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 12 May 2004 to 13 May 2004 (#2004-103) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 14/05/2004, 17:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 13 messages totalling 369 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. RW Holland/Netherlands (9) 2. Ethengars of the Northern Steppes? (3) 3. map differences around Slagovitch ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:50:22 +0300 From: Alex Subject: Re: RW Holland/Netherlands --=======2DA644C======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-22282119; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> Is there an equivalent to Holland/Netherlands in Mystara? > Yes, the Glantrian Principality of Linden, inhabited by the Flaem people. Linguistically yes. Culturally I'd say Minrothad is the closest. Now it just needs some overseas colonies. --=======2DA644C=======-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 18:13:01 +0200 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: RW Holland/Netherlands Alex wrote: > >>> Is there an equivalent to Holland/Netherlands in Mystara? >> >> Yes, the Glantrian Principality of Linden, inhabited by the Flaem people. > > Linguistically yes. Culturally I'd say Minrothad is the closest. Now it > just needs some overseas colonies. Depends on what you're looking for -- if it's a mercantilistic culture and an aggressive sea power, than Minrothad is a better choice, while if you want windmills and red round cheese, then it's Linden. Bye, GP -- Giampaolo Agosta http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:19:28 -0400 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: RW Holland/Netherlands Of course most Flaems are also against techno advances and would want to send knights out to kill those windmills ;-) ============================================================ From: Giampaolo Agosta Date: 2004/05/13 Thu PM 12:13:01 EDT To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] RW Holland/Netherlands Alex wrote: > >>> Is there an equivalent to Holland/Netherlands in Mystara? >> >> Yes, the Glantrian Principality of Linden, inhabited by the Flaem people. > > Linguistically yes. Culturally I'd say Minrothad is the closest. Now it > just needs some overseas colonies. Depends on what you're looking for -- if it's a mercantilistic culture and an aggressive sea power, than Minrothad is a better choice, while if you want windmills and red round cheese, then it's Linden. Bye, GP -- Giampaolo Agosta http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ============================================================ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:51:18 -0400 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: RW Holland/Netherlands What about the Hin? The Shires have windmills, and they are coastal as well. Could they be venturing next to start building dikes to increase their land territory for agriculture? After the WOTI, Darokin is ravaged, and it would be left to the industrious Hin to make huge agricultural advances to become the next bread basket of the Known World. Dikes with windmills set up to pump out the sea water, then canals bringing in soil and fill from the mountains. The same technology could be shared for a price to drain the marshes on the Karameikan border. Ierendi has strong ties to the Shires, and they would vest a great deal of interest in the deal to provide ships and be the first to export the new products overseas. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 19:55:18 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: RW Holland/Netherlands --- Chris Cherrington skrev: > Of course most Flaems are also against techno > advances and would want to send knights out to kill > those windmills ;-) *Lol* I guess only an insane belcadizan knight would take such a job offer... ;) Havard ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 14:00:39 -0400 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: RW Holland/Netherlands The Hin idea of terraforming sounds like a perfect campaign for a Hin seeking immortality. Drastically changing his environment, and banking on the industriousness and love of agriculture within his fellow Hin. With Darokin waning, the end effect could turn the Hin into an industrious powerhouse in trading over land and sea. Once the immortal candidate achieves immortality, he would be more directly involved in the shaping of the new Hin mercantile culture. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 14:42:59 -0400 From: Chris Cherrington Subject: Re: RW Holland/Netherlands *Lol* I guess only an insane belcadizan knight would take such a job offer... ;) Havard ===== Castille Baromon de Preto, at your service... I know I was kicked out of the GSOM for my "modern views of warfare" and my heretical writings of the Ylari translations, and I am sure that 9 year old brat's hair turned back to red after making that awful cat bag noise of his... I still own a stake in the Glantrian wine business, but who needs windmills except for fireball arrow practice? I just need an assistant, a poncho carrying dwarf would do. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:53:39 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Ethengars of the Northern Steppes? I mentioned this idea on the MML sometime last week, and had prepared a post about it here, but it got lost in a connection crash, so I never got back around to posting it. Anyway, the idea was that, what if those northern plains areas (to the west/northwest of Wendar) were inhabited by Ethengarian-like people? It always seemed to me that the Ethengarians got sort of "crammed" into their spot, and they are so wildly different culturally than anyone else around them (like the Atruaghins, to name another) that they got sort of a short shrift. My theory was roughly thus: The Peshwah/Pexua peoples, after fleeing from the rising Blackmoor/Thonia expansion, arrived on the (future) Isle of Dawn. They spread out among the western shores of the IoD, as well as the eastern shores of Brun (via the landbridge that broke apart and became the Ostland isles). To their north lay the Antalian tribes, to the southwest the Oltec/Azcan people, to the west several clans of elves (the shadowelf descendants). Neathar people were scattered all around. They also brought with them the horse, previously unknown on Brun, but which quickly became adopted by their neighbors (in particular, the Oltec people- from whence the Horse Clan eventually rose to prominence). The Great Rain of Fire caused cataclysms which ultimately broke the Isle of Dawn off from the mainland, and separated the Pexua from one another. Some remained on Brun, some ended up on Ochalea (later to be absorbed/assimilated/annihilated by Alphatians), some remained on the IoD itself (and their fate remains unknown currently). Even later, when Akkila-Khan's hordes tore through from the northwest, they scattered all sorts of human tribes before them, but most particularly the Pexua people. Many of them were driven north and westwards, while a sizable group was enslaved by the humanoid horde. These tribes, the Ethengarian tribes, came to adopt some of the ways of the humanoids (their heirarchy, for one, as well as their more warlike aspects) and ultimately drove the humanoids out into the newly shattered lands to the south (the Broken Lands). As a result of the cataclysm that broke the southern lands, and the creation of the Land of Black Sand, these tribes came to have a c lose connection with the spirit world. But what of their cousins, who escaped the tyranny of Akkila-khan and his hordes? They remain, to this day, as nomads of the northern steppes, perhaps awaiting a time when they will be reunited with their Ethengarian cousins... (Anyway, just throwing this out as an idea. I'd imagine they don't have shamans and such, but would be largely similar to the Ethengarians, probably not quite as unified as even the squabbling tribes of the khanates. With the right leadership, though... a truly massive horde might one day rock the known world!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 21:59:34 +0100 From: jason o'brien Subject: Re: Ethengars of the Northern Steppes? > But what of their cousins, who escaped the tyranny of Akkila-khan and his hordes? They remain, to this day, as nomads of the northern steppes, perhaps awaiting a time when they will be reunited with their Ethengarian cousins... > Didn't you create a map of northern brun that contained lands controlled by different groups. Are some of these descended from these peshwa tribes you mention. did you ever do any write up on these lands? if so where can they be found? also would the nomad tribes just north of hule be some of these peshwahan descendants. Mortus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:34:04 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Ethengars of the Northern Steppes? jason o'brien wrote: Didn't you create a map of northern brun that contained lands controlled by different groups. Are some of these descended from these peshwa tribes you mention. did you ever do any write up on these lands? if so where can they be found? also would the nomad tribes just north of hule be some of these peshwahan descendants. No- you might be thinking of someone else (Christian Constantin, maybe?) I think I recall the maps you're referring to. I'm not sure how extensive the coverage of those lands/maps was, but you raise a good question. I'll have to check them out and see if I can find anymore information. Although, come to think of it, I think those cover mostly the further western regions (ie, north of Hule but west of the Black Mountains) and the region I'm suggesting would be just to the west of Wendar/Denagoth, and east of the Black Mountains. Still, I'll have to check out the info you are talking about. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 21:45:46 -0300 From: Asgor Ironfist Subject: Re: RW Holland/Netherlands Could Dunwick be another possibility for an equivalent to RW Netherlands? It was founded by the Lawful Brothehood even before the savage baronies (already existed in the X9 the savage coast, with the name Second Chance Outpost), and it is quite close to Eusdria. It's possible that a significant part of the human population came from there, and brouth with them their language, and in Dunwick, with the influence of the Slag, Renardois and others, it changed and became "dutch". It would be like an popular dialect, but not (yet) the official idiom of Dunwijk (Dunwick). But it could chance in the near future, since it isn't really a colony of Cimarron. By the way, the LB Trade Company resembles a lot the West/East India Company (pehaps the are "two" LB companies, an East LB Trade Company and West LB Trade Company. They're not different companies, but this division would help to control the commerce in both Western Sea and Sea of Dread). Just a possibility. By the way, the Flaems descends from the alphatians Followers of the Flame, right? How they started speaking dutch? Does alphatian have any simmilarity to flaemish? _________________________________________________________________ MSN Hotmail, o maior webmail do Brasil. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 03:25:30 +0000 From: adrian mattias Subject: Re: map differences around Slagovitch Thib, I prefer the Red Steel/SB maps, but I thought that I would add IMC I had a canal cut (by magic of course - there are plenty of useful spells for doing such things) between Tyjaret and Klandanovic (or at least from the rivers shown on the map anyway). Think of the commercial revenues for decreasing the time taken to travel by sea from Hule and the SC to the Known World. I am surprised that the Master didn't think of it (not much of a merchant I guess). OTOH I can't remember the exact time saving for a lge sailing ship - but I think it was in the order of 80 odd days. > From: Thibault Sarlat > Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: [MYSTARA] map differences around Slagovitch > Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 03:51:54 -0700 > > hello everyone > > Ive noted a big difference between the CoM map of the > slagovitch surroundings, particurlarly the river to > the south which goes into the gulf of Hule in > Kladanovic. > > In the Red Steel and Savage Baronies boxed sets, there > are 2 or three rivers there. and some forests are > present between Tijaret and Kladanovic. > > to your mind, which one shall we pick as "genuine". > I am above all interested in having a good map of the > Kladanovic region in 8 miles per hex. > > thib > > ===== > Thibault SARLAT > a.k.a Clenarius > www.mystara.fr.st > ICQ 16622177 > MSN Messenger: clenarius@hotmail.com > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ SEEK: Now with over 50,000 dream jobs! Click here: http://ninemsn.seek.com.au?hotmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:50:48 +0200 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: RW Holland/Netherlands Asgor Ironfist wrote: > Could Dunwick be another possibility for an equivalent to RW > Netherlands? Yes, though Dunwick is a colony rather than an "Old World" region. > was founded by the Lawful Brothehood even before the savage baronies > (already existed in the X9 the savage coast, with the name Second Chance > Outpost), and it is quite close to Eusdria. It's possible that a > significant > part of the human population came from there, and brouth with them their > language, and in Dunwick, with the influence of the Slag, Renardois and > others, it changed and became "dutch". Ah, but then you might want to explain how it comes that the Cimarron, who are of "eastern" (Traladaran/Thyatian, probably) descent, speak English -- notably, a language that doesn't have a Mystaran equivalent outside a small number of seemingly unrelated languages: Anglais (Fenswick), Bellaynish (the "human" language of Bellayne) and Cimarron. We could use Eusdria (M-Anglo-Saxon?) as a starting point, certainly, and Thyatian (Slag, M-Latin/Greek) to take the role of French in the evolution of English. Not entirely convincing, though. > By the way, the Flaems descends from the alphatians Followers of the Flame, > right? Yes. > How they started speaking dutch? That's a mystery. BTW, it is possible that the Flaemaker gnomes of Valoin-Flaemaker in the HW (M-Belgium, probably) do speak a variant of Flaem/Dutch, though there's no reason for this :) > Does alphatian have any simmilarity > to flaemish? No, but this is not unreasonable, since Alphatia covered more than one planet, and several different cultures. -- Giampaolo Agosta http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 12 May 2004 to 13 May 2004 (#2004-103) ****************************************************************