Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 2 Sep 2004 to 3 Sep 2004 (#2004-185) From: Automatic digest processor Date: 04/09/2004, 17:00 To: Recipients of MYSTARA-L digests Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 6 messages totalling 687 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Blackmoor Era Planetary Map (6) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 16:35:47 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Blackmoor Era Planetary Map --- Giampaolo Agosta wrote: > Orc's Head, more or less in the same position as the > modern Wallara territory and Herath. Yeah. If I made the map more detailed I could fit in these and the various countries of the Known World, but the point with this map was to get a planetary overview. I might make some more detailed historical maps of the Savage Coast and the Known World (the most interesting regions for something like that IMO), but that will have to wait a while. > > Thanks. I intend to make more historical maps > later > > on, providing general information on the > civilizations > > of Mystara at various points of her history, both > > before and after the Great Rain of Fire. > > Great! Yeah. I'll actually just have to make 2 or three actual maps and then moving the names around can produce more eras without the geographic features changing. > > Much canon material described Blackmoor as being > > located just north of the Known World, with > Glantri > > City corresponding to the Valley of the Ancients, > the > > Ethengar steppes to the Peshwa lands etc. However, > > this doesn't fit very well with the Blackmoor map. > > Yes -- just see the relative position of these > landmarks and the apparent position of the city of > Blackmoor (Broken Lands, Comeback Inn): it simply > doesn't make much sense. Yeah. Ofcourse we could make a new map of Blackmoor, but I don't like that idea, especially with the d20 sourcebook just out, part of the fun is trying to make it all fit. So, with the assumption that the Blackmoor map is correct, things like the Comeback Inn and the Radiance will have had to be moved, so moving them over to Skothar makes sense to me. I also tried to tie in the map of the Wilderlands on Skothar, but realizing how big that setting is, I couldn't get it to fit. It would stretch on both sides of the Alphatian Sea. :( > Looking forward to see the other maps ;) Hehe, I have the Mystara AC1000 one almost ready. From there, making one for Mystara AC1010 will only require removing Alphatia and replacing it with the smaller "monster Island" aka "Ionace" Håvard ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 18:45:00 +0200 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Blackmoor Era Planetary Map Havard Faanes wrote: > >>> of Mystara at various points of her history, both >>> before and after the Great Rain of Fire. Well, then, you might find this list of the civilizations that could be found on Mystara at 2000 BC useful ;) Also, I think that some other people (Giulio and DM) will be interested. Note that I've tried to include the better known non-canon civilization, and I've also used some IMO-only facts. Feel free to add any missing items, of course. GP 2000 BC Known World: Taymora: Humans, first Lupin breeds, mythic lycanthropes (Bronze Age) (Taymoran Civil War) Malpheggi: Lizard Men (Stone Age), Makai (Stone Age) Atruaghin: Azcan/Oltecs (Stone Age) Thyatis/Minrothad: Shelash Elves (Bronze Age), Trantalians (Stone Age), Thantalians (Stone Age) Nithia: Nithian humans (Bronze Age), Trantalian subject population Northern Reaches: Antalians (Bronze Age), Dwarves & Gnomes (Iron Age?) Darokin: Dunharian tribes (Stone Age) Altan Tepee: Giants (Bronze Age) Glantri: Belcadiz & Shattenalfen, Icevale, Gentle Folk (Bronze Age elves) Ethengar: Neathar/Oltecs (Stone Age) Serpent Peninsula: Sheyallia Elves, Tanagoro (Bronze Age), Karimari (as always) Sind: Urduk nomads Norwold: Antalians (Bronze Age, includes Yevo) Frost Giants (Frosthaven, Bronze Age) Dragons (Dragon Wars) Littonian (threatened by Frost Giants) Denagoth (Half-Beastmen, Geffronel Elves) Wendar (Genalleth Elves) Midlands: Urzud goblinoids Yalu Coast Barbarians (Antalians, Dunharians) Iraklita (Kavkaz kingdom) Nomadic Sardjik, Khaghaz etc. Hule: Nine Kingdoms (Temple of Chaos followers) Bylot Hills colonies Black Mountains: Goatmen of Bielagul? Savage Coast: Herath (replaces the dwindling Aranea) Enduks (just created, Bronze Age) Elven settlements (mixed with Oltecs) Oltecs (Stone Age) Tortle (Stone Age) Arm of the Immortals Aeryl (Bronze Age) Jakar civilization (early Bronze Age, Rakasta) Yazak Steppes: Plaktur Rakasta (Bronze Age) Aardovai (proto-Lupins, Stone Age) Western Brun Yezchamenid: Pitchans, early Churans Sylvan Realms: Ilsundal Elves Hyborea: Saamari nomads (Stone Age) Alphatian Sea: Isle of Dawn: Dunael (just arriving), Giants of Gandhar Alphatia: Yanifey (Stone Age) Bellissaria: Pardasta? Yanifey? Skothar: Jennite Civilization (Humans, Bronze Age) Rakasta Civilizations (Sherkasta, Cloud Pardasta, plus scattered Fast Runners and Snow Pardasta -- undetermined tech level) Swanamutu: Tanagoro (Stone Age) Nentsun: Nasuuan Kingdom (Humans, Bronze Age?) Thonia: Thonian Kingdom (Humans, Iron Age?) Davania: North-east: (Proto)-Varellyans (early Bronze Age Neathars), Thratians Southern Vulcania: Ice Gnomish civilization (Iron Age?) Savannah: Simbasta civilization, covers also Milenian region, includes other subraces North-west: Tanagoro colonies (with Fast Runner Rakasta?) West of Varellya: Elven survivors? (Hatwa Elves) Patera Pachydermion Civilization, non-Myoshiman Rakasta -- Giampaolo Agosta http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 12:33:23 -0500 From: James Mishler Subject: Re: Blackmoor Era Planetary Map Havard said: <> Remember, the Wilderlands was originally scaled (and continues to remain scaled) at 5 miles per hex; the original Blackmoor map (from Judges Guild's "First Fantasy Campaign") was scaled at 10 miles per hex, scaled up to 24 miles per hex for the TSR versions (the map was exactly the same, though colored rather than sepia tone). A slight adjustment on the Wilderlands up to 8 miles per hex means the whole 18-map Wilderlands fits onto two standard 24-mile hex map sheets, or twice the size of the Known World. Now, this leaves some juggling of the Valley of the Ancients region, but not too much. Maybe the Valley of the Ancients of the Wilderlands is a distant extension of the Valley found in Blackmoor. The new Blackmoor map makes the Valley even smaller than it was in the TSR edition. Although, in my Wilderlands campaign, I adjusted the scale to 24 miles per hex, instead of 8... and yes, that makes the Wilderlands HUGE. IT would extend on the Blackmoor pre-GRoF map from the Arctic Circle to south of the equator. But if it is smaller, it can be made to fit. At 8 miles per hex (on the original Wilderlands maps) the western part of the Wilderlands would be proto-Alphatia, the eastern part would be Skothar, the Kingdom of Karak could be a settled Peshwah kingdom south and west of Thonia, the Great Glacier to the north fits in with the Skandaharian Peninsula (as does the location of Valon), the Giant Lands to the west would fit in with the Kingdom of Gandhar... hmmm, dammit Havard, I don't got time to be inspired like this... (^_^) But now I gotta spend at least a little time plotting this out. I have ALWAYS wanted to make the Wilderlands a part of my Mystara setting, but never got around to fitting it in, really. The Wilderlands and Mystara have always competed as my favorite settings. Now I must kludge them together, darnitall... James ***************************** James "Mystaros" Mishler Mystaros@cwwis.com www.kenzerco.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 13:12:04 -0500 From: James Mishler Subject: Re: Blackmoor Era Planetary Map Drat... Well, maybe it isn't all that easy. Hmmm... I've been going over iterations in my head with several maps, shrunk and re-shrunk to various scales. To make it work, there'd have to be a bit of maneuvering on the part of several small land masses, and a bit of rise of more land and fall of some here and there, of course. The main problem is I'm dealing with a perspective map on Blackmoor era Mystara and a flat map with the Wilderlands... grrr... Not something to be solved during lunch, I'm afraid... James ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Mishler" To: Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 12:33 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Blackmoor Era Planetary Map > Havard said: > > < realizing how big that setting is, I couldn't get it to fit. It would > stretch on both sides of the Alphatian Sea. :(>> > > Remember, the Wilderlands was originally scaled (and continues to remain > scaled) at 5 miles per hex; the original Blackmoor map (from Judges Guild's > "First Fantasy Campaign") was scaled at 10 miles per hex, scaled up to 24 > miles per hex for the TSR versions (the map was exactly the same, though > colored rather than sepia tone). > > A slight adjustment on the Wilderlands up to 8 miles per hex means the whole > 18-map Wilderlands fits onto two standard 24-mile hex map sheets, or twice > the size of the Known World. Now, this leaves some juggling of the Valley of > the Ancients region, but not too much. Maybe the Valley of the Ancients of > the Wilderlands is a distant extension of the Valley found in Blackmoor. The > new Blackmoor map makes the Valley even smaller than it was in the TSR > edition. > > Although, in my Wilderlands campaign, I adjusted the scale to 24 miles per > hex, instead of 8... and yes, that makes the Wilderlands HUGE. IT would > extend on the Blackmoor pre-GRoF map from the Arctic Circle to south of the > equator. But if it is smaller, it can be made to fit. At 8 miles per hex (on > the original Wilderlands maps) the western part of the Wilderlands would be > proto-Alphatia, the eastern part would be Skothar, the Kingdom of Karak > could be a settled Peshwah kingdom south and west of Thonia, the Great > Glacier to the north fits in with the Skandaharian Peninsula (as does the > location of Valon), the Giant Lands to the west would fit in with the > Kingdom of Gandhar... hmmm, dammit Havard, I don't got time to be inspired > like this... (^_^) > > But now I gotta spend at least a little time plotting this out. I have > ALWAYS wanted to make the Wilderlands a part of my Mystara setting, but > never got around to fitting it in, really. The Wilderlands and Mystara have > always competed as my favorite settings. Now I must kludge them together, > darnitall... > > James > > ***************************** > James "Mystaros" Mishler > Mystaros@cwwis.com > www.kenzerco.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 23:08:19 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Blackmoor Era Planetary Map Okay, I've given this some more thought. I've based my assumptions on the maps of the Wilderness Campaign from the new D20 version. They can be viewed from my site at: www.geocities.com/havardfaa/downloads.html Just scroll down to the bottom. Now, what I think would be a possible sollution is to place the Wilderlands in the bay, just south of where it says Peshwah lands on my Pre Cataclysmic map. (www.geocities.com/havardfaa/precataclysmic04.jpg) My maths skills have deteriorated quite a bit since high school though, especially when I have to deal with non-metric stuff *embarass* so let me know if I'm way off on this one. The problem is though, that the bay area I am talking about has an outlet to the ocean on the western side, whereas the on Wilderness Campaign map the outlet to the ocean is on the southwestern side (and possibly one to the north). fixing it would require some manipulations, but it could be done. I'm thinking about extending Tangor bay so it leads into the Wilderness Seas. As someone suggested elsewhere, the Kingdom of Karak could be another name for Thonia, or it could be between the Wilderlands and Thonia. This would put the Demon Empires near the Tanagoro lands. The glacier, on not so sure about, it would be near where I placed the Afridih. Maybe thats why they worship the god of fire and _ice_? The Valley of the Ancients doesn't quite fit, but there is nothing on the ZGG Blackmoor map preventing that Valley from extending further south and twisting and turning towards the west... What do you think? Havard --- James Mishler skrev: > Drat... > > Well, maybe it isn't all that easy. Hmmm... > > I've been going over iterations in my head with > several maps, shrunk and > re-shrunk to various scales. To make it work, > there'd have to be a bit of > maneuvering on the part of several small land > masses, and a bit of rise of > more land and fall of some here and there, of > course. > > The main problem is I'm dealing with a perspective > map on Blackmoor era > Mystara and a flat map with the Wilderlands... > grrr... > > Not something to be solved during lunch, I'm > afraid... > > James > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Mishler" > To: > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 12:33 PM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Blackmoor Era Planetary Map > > > > Havard said: > > > > < Wilderlands on Skothar, but > > realizing how big that setting is, I couldn't get > it to fit. It would > > stretch on both sides of the Alphatian Sea. :(>> > > > > Remember, the Wilderlands was originally scaled > (and continues to remain > > scaled) at 5 miles per hex; the original Blackmoor > map (from Judges > Guild's > > "First Fantasy Campaign") was scaled at 10 miles > per hex, scaled up to 24 > > miles per hex for the TSR versions (the map was > exactly the same, though > > colored rather than sepia tone). > > > > A slight adjustment on the Wilderlands up to 8 > miles per hex means the > whole > > 18-map Wilderlands fits onto two standard 24-mile > hex map sheets, or twice > > the size of the Known World. Now, this leaves some > juggling of the Valley > of > > the Ancients region, but not too much. Maybe the > Valley of the Ancients of > > the Wilderlands is a distant extension of the > Valley found in Blackmoor. > The > > new Blackmoor map makes the Valley even smaller > than it was in the TSR > > edition. > > > > Although, in my Wilderlands campaign, I adjusted > the scale to 24 miles per > > hex, instead of 8... and yes, that makes the > Wilderlands HUGE. IT would > > extend on the Blackmoor pre-GRoF map from the > Arctic Circle to south of > the > > equator. But if it is smaller, it can be made to > fit. At 8 miles per hex > (on > > the original Wilderlands maps) the western part of > the Wilderlands would > be > > proto-Alphatia, the eastern part would be Skothar, > the Kingdom of Karak > > could be a settled Peshwah kingdom south and west > of Thonia, the Great > > Glacier to the north fits in with the Skandaharian > Peninsula (as does the > > location of Valon), the Giant Lands to the west > would fit in with the > > Kingdom of Gandhar... hmmm, dammit Havard, I don't > got time to be inspired > > like this... (^_^) > > > > But now I gotta spend at least a little time > plotting this out. I have > > ALWAYS wanted to make the Wilderlands a part of my > Mystara setting, but > > never got around to fitting it in, really. The > Wilderlands and Mystara > have > > always competed as my favorite settings. Now I > must kludge them together, > > darnitall... > > > > James > > > > ***************************** > > James "Mystaros" Mishler > > Mystaros@cwwis.com > > www.kenzerco.com > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: > http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 23:19:59 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Blackmoor Era Planetary Map Thanks Giampaolo! I'll save these and try to put them into a map later on. I always wanted to do this era (Taymora era). My AC1000 Mystara map is almost complete, but I'll have to fix the coastline so Taymora itself can be included. Are there any other geographic features that will be different from AC1000? Håvard --- Giampaolo Agosta skrev: > Havard Faanes wrote: > > > > >>> of Mystara at various points of her history, > both > >>> before and after the Great Rain of Fire. > > Well, then, you might find this list of the > civilizations that could be found on Mystara at 2000 > BC useful ;) > Also, I think that some other people (Giulio and DM) > will be interested. > Note that I've tried to include the better known > non-canon civilization, > and I've also used some IMO-only facts. > Feel free to add any missing items, of course. > > GP > > 2000 BC > Known World: > Taymora: Humans, first Lupin breeds, mythic > lycanthropes (Bronze Age) > (Taymoran Civil War) > Malpheggi: Lizard Men (Stone Age), Makai (Stone > Age) > Atruaghin: Azcan/Oltecs (Stone Age) > Thyatis/Minrothad: Shelash Elves (Bronze Age), > Trantalians (Stone > Age), Thantalians (Stone Age) > Nithia: Nithian humans (Bronze Age), Trantalian > subject population > Northern Reaches: Antalians (Bronze Age), Dwarves > & Gnomes (Iron Age?) > Darokin: Dunharian tribes (Stone Age) > Altan Tepee: Giants (Bronze Age) > Glantri: Belcadiz & Shattenalfen, Icevale, Gentle > Folk (Bronze Age elves) > Ethengar: Neathar/Oltecs (Stone Age) > Serpent Peninsula: Sheyallia Elves, Tanagoro > (Bronze Age), Karimari > (as always) > Sind: Urduk nomads > Norwold: > Antalians (Bronze Age, includes Yevo) > Frost Giants (Frosthaven, Bronze Age) > Dragons (Dragon Wars) > Littonian (threatened by Frost Giants) > Denagoth (Half-Beastmen, Geffronel Elves) > Wendar (Genalleth Elves) > Midlands: > Urzud goblinoids > Yalu Coast Barbarians (Antalians, Dunharians) > Iraklita (Kavkaz kingdom) > Nomadic Sardjik, Khaghaz etc. > Hule: > Nine Kingdoms (Temple of Chaos followers) > Bylot Hills colonies > Black Mountains: Goatmen of Bielagul? > Savage Coast: > Herath (replaces the dwindling Aranea) > Enduks (just created, Bronze Age) > Elven settlements (mixed with Oltecs) > Oltecs (Stone Age) > Tortle (Stone Age) > Arm of the Immortals > Aeryl (Bronze Age) > Jakar civilization (early Bronze Age, Rakasta) > Yazak Steppes: > Plaktur Rakasta (Bronze Age) > Aardovai (proto-Lupins, Stone Age) > Western Brun > Yezchamenid: Pitchans, early Churans > Sylvan Realms: Ilsundal Elves > Hyborea: > Saamari nomads (Stone Age) > > Alphatian Sea: > Isle of Dawn: Dunael (just arriving), Giants of > Gandhar > Alphatia: Yanifey (Stone Age) > Bellissaria: Pardasta? Yanifey? > > Skothar: > Jennite Civilization (Humans, Bronze Age) > Rakasta Civilizations (Sherkasta, Cloud Pardasta, > plus scattered Fast > Runners and Snow Pardasta -- undetermined tech > level) > Swanamutu: Tanagoro (Stone Age) > Nentsun: Nasuuan Kingdom (Humans, Bronze Age?) > Thonia: Thonian Kingdom (Humans, Iron Age?) > > Davania: > North-east: (Proto)-Varellyans (early Bronze Age > Neathars), Thratians > Southern Vulcania: Ice Gnomish civilization (Iron > Age?) > Savannah: Simbasta civilization, covers also > Milenian region, > includes other subraces > North-west: Tanagoro colonies (with Fast Runner > Rakasta?) > West of Varellya: Elven survivors? (Hatwa Elves) > > Patera > Pachydermion Civilization, non-Myoshiman Rakasta > > -- > > Giampaolo Agosta > > http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ===== *** Håvard R. Faanes www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ______________________________________________________ Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt så morsom ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 2 Sep 2004 to 3 Sep 2004 (#2004-185) **************************************************************