Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 9 Nov 2005 to 10 Nov 2005 (#2005-208) From: MYSTARA-L automatic digest system Date: 11/11/2005, 19:00 To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 18 messages totalling 925 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Air fleets in Mystara (6) 2. Vedr. [MYSTARA] Air fleets in Mystara (6) 3. Vedr. Re: [MYSTARA] Vedr. [MYSTARA] Air fleets in Mystara (6) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 10:26:52 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Air fleets in Mystara Alex Benson ha scritto: > > The key word is "trying". PC and Gaz era works are set up resources. In some ways, Thyatis's trying to takeover Serraine falls into the Cold War scenario between Alphatia and Thyatis. Even if the RAF is detailed in its least numerical terms, then even that should be able to overwhelm the gnomes' air defenses. So basically, it would be theirs for the taking if they really wanted it. Of course. Given the number of dragons & high-level characters available to Thyatis, taking over Serraine would not be too difficult. > Really? I thought that there were some numbers given. Maybe I'm just not finding them :( > Anyway, I tend to go with Alphatian Imperial Fleets consisting of various types of skyships. Militarily, it makes sense to have a variety of vessels. Smaller craft are used for scouting and patrols. Man-o-Wars are the assault vessels, with Marines and artillery to ludicrous numbers. Medium vessels assist in bomabardment. Right. > I would also assume that some medium or large vessels are used as troop transports, as opposed to juggernaut Man-o-Wars, to reinforce the assault once a "beachhead" is secured. I'd say that's the role of the sea navy. > I think thta a WW2 era > Assault Task Force is a better analogy. I'd have to run the numbers but I believe that a Man-o-War can absorb the breath weapon damage of a dragon. Perhaps the Man-o-War evolved to the current form /because/ of the success of dragon riders against 1000 AY war skyships? They've been making larger and larger ships to match the growing number and size of Thyatian-aligned dragons. Bye, GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 14:43:04 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Vedr. [MYSTARA] Air fleets in Mystara Joe Mason ha scritto: > >> Why would it have to be a dragon nation? Please note that I don't have >> a clue what Khanistar or Druuwmet are. Two of the dragon rulers of Brun, from the Dragon Magazine article "Who's Who among Dragons" (you can find it in the Vaults). Specifically, there's no (known) dragon kingdom covering Thyatian lands (unless Demetrion's dragon is the ruler of an hidden kingdom there), so I went for the nearest non-evil draconic rulers (Khanistar is an odd Blue oriental dragon, Druuwmet an old white, IIRC). >> But a dragon nation - that's a >> good start though. Could it be an organization of dragons who have >> vested interests in a particular balance of power? Would dragons on >> Brun generally be against Alphatian magogracy for some reason? Are the >> Brun dragons aligned against an organization of Alphatian dragons? We know little to nothing about Alphatian dragons, actually. If there are dragons in Alphatia, they've not played a role in the Alphatian-Thyatian wars (as the "Thyatian" dragons have done, OTOH) > I'd just heard the term "dragon nation" and figured that several hundred > dragons all working together in a military capacity would probably > qualify. I don't actually know much about the subject, I was just > throwing it out as an idea. Dragon kingdoms are described in a couple of dragon magazine articles, available on the Vaults, see the list of DM articles here: http://pandius.com/dragon.html These are the relevant articles: http://pandius.com/whoswho.html http://pandius.com/immguard.html Bye, GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 09:46:51 -0500 From: Joe Mason Subject: Re: Vedr. [MYSTARA] Air fleets in Mystara Giampaolo Agosta wrote: >> I'd just heard the term "dragon nation" and figured that several hundred >> dragons all working together in a military capacity would probably >> qualify. I don't actually know much about the subject, I was just >> throwing it out as an idea. > > Dragon kingdoms are described in a couple of dragon magazine articles, > available on the Vaults, see the list of DM articles here: > http://pandius.com/dragon.html Hmm - it seems like these "Dragon kingdoms" are actually kingdoms or tribes of humanoids owing fealty to a single dragon. The more I look at that, the less likely it seems that Thyatis would have *hundreds* of dragon riders. But I think they need them to keep pace with Alphatia as described. Joe ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 16:12:50 +0100 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Vedr. Re: [MYSTARA] Vedr. [MYSTARA] Air fleets in Mystara --- Joe Mason skrev: > Hmm - it seems like these "Dragon kingdoms" are > actually kingdoms or > tribes of humanoids owing fealty to a single dragon. > The more I look at > that, the less likely it seems that Thyatis would > have *hundreds* of > dragon riders. But I think they need them to keep > pace with Alphatia as > described. No, the dragon Kings also have other dragons subjugated under them. However, I doubt that this is where the Thyatians have their dragons from. I'd rather suggest that they have made an alliance with the dragons of Wyrmsteeth, Arentela or perhaps even dragons from Davania... Håvard ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 11:04:04 EST From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Air fleets in Mystara <<> The key word is "trying". PC and Gaz era works are set up resources. In some > ways, Thyatis's trying to takeover Serraine falls into the Cold War scenario > between Alphatia and Thyatis. Even if the RAF is detailed in its least numerical terms, then even that should be able to overwhelm the gnomes' air defenses. > So basically, it would be theirs for the taking if they really wanted it. Of course. Given the number of dragons & high-level characters available to Thyatis, taking over Serraine would not be too difficult.>> I know I've been out of the loop for a while, but where did this Thyatian/Draconic alliance come from? I checked the Dragon Magazine links in another mail on this subject and saw no mention of Alphatia or Thyatis, much less the dragons allying with or against either. Likewise, I recall no mention of such an alliance within WotI. The only other reference to dragons fightign Alphatians in large numbers was the Dragonlord novels. That was set in the distant Mystaran past and the dragons were pretty much against every nation. Is it canon, someone's work, PWAs, MAs, etc. ? I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything, I'm genuinely curious here. <<> I would also assume that some medium or large vessels are used as > troop transports, as opposed to juggernaut Man-o-Wars, to reinforce the assault once a "beachhead" is secured. I'd say that's the role of the sea navy.>> My appologies. I should have used the term "foothold" instead of "beachhead" to be more specific. That overland ability and their ability to attack from great heights are advantages over land based forces. <<> I think thta a WW2 era > Assault Task Force is a better analogy. I'd have to run the numbers but I believe > that a Man-o-War can absorb the breath weapon damage of a dragon. Perhaps the Man-o-War evolved to the current form /because/ of the success of dragon riders against 1000 AY war skyships? They've been making larger and larger ships to match the growing number and size of Thyatian-aligned dragons.>> Aside from the above question on this Thyatian/Draconic Alliance, I am not really a big fan of the premise of a widespread use of dragons in a setting. IMO dragons hold themselves far above man and even the elves. For them to unify and ally with humans is demeaning to their draconic bloodlines. Even a subdued dragon, per DnD Red Box, will work on its escape and do so at the earliest possible moment. Even dragons raised from the egg, have the chance of turning on its master or fleeing under a variety of situations. Likewise, I feel that having dragonriders in such a focal role and in high numbers in Mystara is unbalancing and undermines the power of dragons. I can understand a few eceptions to the rule, where the rider and mounts histories are descibed, but I am uncomfortable with wholesale numbers of dragons being used. I also would think that the dragons would take such widespread servitude of their kind to a human in a less than favorable light. In light of any given figures, I figure that dragons would be a distinct minority within the RAF and Knights of the Air. The few dragons in service would be those of the lesser varieties. I'm not trying to pick a fight here, or rehash some Thyatis vs. Alphatia flamewar. I don't play DnD and I have only had a minor role in the MML for quite some time. All my Mystara materials have been packed away for about a year. I just don't like the idea of dragons being used on such a large scale. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 17:41:23 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Vedr. Re: [MYSTARA] Vedr. [MYSTARA] Air fleets in Mystara Havard Faanes ha scritto: > > No, the dragon Kings also have other dragons > subjugated under them. Yes, that's quite important to their rise towards the status of draconic immortal. > However, I doubt that this is > where the Thyatians have their dragons from. I'd > rather suggest that they have made an alliance with > the dragons of Wyrmsteeth, Arentela or perhaps even > dragons from Davania... That's also possible, though Wyrmsteeth would have a massive impact on the war in Norwold! GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 17:51:36 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Air fleets in Mystara Alex Benson ha scritto: > > I know I've been out of the loop for a while, but where did this Thyatian/Draconic alliance come from? I checked the Dragon Magazine links in another mail on this subject and saw no mention of Alphatia or Thyatis, much less the dragons allying with or against either. Nowhere, just an idea proposed in this thread [quoting from Joe Mason's earlier post]: > Perhaps a dragon nation is allied to Thyatis and agrees to provide > "troops" (NOT mounts!) solely because of the mutual hatred of > Alphatia. > After WotI, with Alphatia destroyed, they would part ways more-or-less > amicably because the threat is gone. So, it was just an idea (I find it a nice idea, BTW) to give Thyatis a larger number of draconic mounts /only/ as long as Alphatia is a threat. > My appologies. I should have used the term "foothold" instead of "beachhead" to be more specific. That overland ability and their ability to attack from great heights are advantages over land based forces. Uhm, right. > Likewise, I feel that having dragonriders in such a focal role and in high numbers in Mystara is unbalancing and undermines the power of dragons. I can understand a few eceptions to the rule, where the rider and mounts histories are descibed, but I am uncomfortable with wholesale numbers of dragons being used. I also would think that the dragons would take such widespread servitude of their kind to a human in a less than favorable light. In light of any given figures, I figure that dragons would be a distinct minority within the RAF and Knights of the Air. The few dragons in service would be those of the lesser varieties. Understandable. I was just going with the DotE distribution of aerial mounts, but one could (reasonably) argue that the chances of a PC getting a dragon mount need not be equal to the ratio of dragons in the RAF roster. > I'm not trying to pick a fight here, or rehash some Thyatis vs. Alphatia flamewar. Neither I am -- no claim of ever writing something "canonic". Even the idea that the fleets of Thyatis and Alphatia balance each other has no basis in canon (except the fact that Alphatia never reconquered Thyatis, and in the two invasion, the Alphatian skynavy didn't seem to have any role, which still isn't a decisive factor). My main interest in this thread is to gather opinions on the aerial fleets, and your comments are welcome. Bye, GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 17:49:35 +0100 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: Vedr. Re: [MYSTARA] Vedr. [MYSTARA] Air fleets in Mystara --- Giampaolo Agosta skrev: > That's also possible, though Wyrmsteeth would have a > massive impact on the war in Norwold! True. According to the Dragonlord Trilogy, the dragons of Wyrmsteeth dont like the Alphatians very much. Perhaps the dragons have a deal with Thyatis to come to the humans aid against the Alphatians, but wont get involved in other Imperial affairs? This would also help explain why they switched to Wyverns after the disappearance of Alphatia... Håvard ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:22:38 -0500 From: Libramus Subject: Re: Vedr. [MYSTARA] Air fleets in Mystara Giampaolo Agosta wrote: > Joe Mason ha scritto: > >> >> Perhaps a dragon nation is allied to Thyatis and agrees to provide >> "troops" (NOT mounts!) solely because of the mutual hatred of Alphatia. >> After WotI, with Alphatia destroyed, they would part ways more-or-less >> amicably because the threat is gone. > > > Nice idea, indeed. Who could he be? Khanistar? Druuwmet? > > GP Actually... maybe the 'dragon nation' is native to Ochalea. We're talking about a place that's incredibly thinly populated, after all (125,000 people, 50,000 of which live n or around the city of Beitung, and seven other coastal towns), lots of thinly explored forests and hills, and a land area the size of any three nations in southeastern Brun. The existence of a large number of dragons hasn't appeared yet in the Almanacs or other source material, but it'd be easy to retcon it in, and Ochalea easily has space for fifty or more dragons. These dragons might be willing to serve as the heavy backbone of the RAF purely as a defensive measure - but refuse to lead any action against Serraine, Thyatian expansionism northwards and westwards into Brun, et cetera. When Ochalea secedes from the Empire in 1007 AC, the dragons choose to resign their commissions - and refuse to return to duty even after Thyatis expands, since Alphatia no longer is a threat. So the balance of power stays more or less intact, and we get several dozen powerful, cunning, militarily-trained dragons sitting on Ochalea as an added bonus. (Ochalea's always been a place that I feel gets short shrift. I should probably start a larger GAZ writeup.) - Rodger Burns libramus@scn.org ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 18:40:40 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Vedr. [MYSTARA] Air fleets in Mystara Libramus ha scritto: > > We're talking about a place that's incredibly thinly populated, after all (125,000 people, 50,000 of which live n or around the city of Beitung, and seven other coastal towns), lots of thinly explored forests and hills, and a land area the size of any three nations in southeastern Brun. The existence of a large number of dragons hasn't appeared yet in the Almanacs or other source material, but it'd be easy to retcon it in, and Ochalea easily has space for fifty or more dragons. Ochalea could be a good place to put these dragons, indeed. There's certainly place for a number of dragons there, even if the Ochalean population was larger than 125.000 (which is quite likely, IMO, since it's hard to believe that the whole population is concentrate in the few towns). Bye, GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 18:41:37 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Vedr. Re: [MYSTARA] Vedr. [MYSTARA] Air fleets in Mystara Havard Faanes ha scritto: > > True. According to the Dragonlord Trilogy, the dragons > of Wyrmsteeth dont like the Alphatians very much. > Perhaps the dragons have a deal with Thyatis to come > to the humans aid against the Alphatians, but wont get > involved in other Imperial affairs? This would also > help explain why they switched to Wyverns after the > disappearance of Alphatia... Yes, but the why don't they help in CM1? GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 18:40:13 +0100 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: Vedr. [MYSTARA] Air fleets in Mystara Roger, I really like this idea! With Ochaela being a China-like country, it does make alot of sense to have it be populated by a large number of Lawful-aligned dragons, who would have the kind of attitude that you describe. Also, this helps explain why Thyatis no longer has dragon riders after the end of WotI since Ochaela is now independent. Looking forward to seeing your gazeteer! ;-D Håvard --- Libramus skrev: > Giampaolo Agosta wrote: > > > Joe Mason ha scritto: > > > >> > >> Perhaps a dragon nation is allied to Thyatis and > agrees to provide > >> "troops" (NOT mounts!) solely because of the > mutual hatred of Alphatia. > >> After WotI, with Alphatia destroyed, they would > part ways more-or-less > >> amicably because the threat is gone. > > > > > > Nice idea, indeed. Who could he be? Khanistar? > Druuwmet? > > > > GP > > Actually... maybe the 'dragon nation' is native to > Ochalea. > > We're talking about a place that's incredibly thinly > populated, after all (125,000 people, 50,000 of which live n or > around the city of Beitung, and seven other coastal towns), lots of > thinly explored forests and hills, and a land area the size of any three > nations in southeastern Brun. The existence of a large number of dragons > hasn't appeared yet in the Almanacs or other source material, but it'd be > easy to retcon it in, and Ochalea easily has space for fifty or more > dragons. > These dragons might be willing to serve as the heavy > backbone of the RAF purely as a defensive measure - but refuse to lead > any action against Serraine, Thyatian expansionism northwards and > westwards into Brun, et cetera. When Ochalea secedes from the Empire in > 1007 AC, the dragons choose to resign their commissions - and refuse to > return to duty even after Thyatis expands, since Alphatia no longer is a > threat. So the balance of power stays more or less intact, and we > get several dozen powerful, cunning, militarily-trained dragons > sitting on Ochalea as an added bonus. > > (Ochalea's always been a place that I feel gets > short shrift. I should probably start a larger GAZ writeup.) > > - Rodger Burns > libramus@scn.org > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 18:45:26 +0100 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: Vedr. Re: [MYSTARA] Vedr. [MYSTARA] Air fleets in Mystara --- Giampaolo Agosta skrev: > Yes, but the why don't they help in CM1? Yes, that is true. I wasnt sure what you meant with the war in Norwold at first, but you are right, the events from CM1 will be problematic with this sollution. Ofcourse, unifying the CM series with WotI is problematic as well, so we might have to tweak some things to figure this out. Perhaps they kept out of that one since the Alphatians didnt bring in all of their fleet? Håvard ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 15:22:24 EST From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Air fleets in Mystara <<> My appologies. I should have used the term "foothold" instead of "beachhead" > to be more specific. That overland ability and their ability to attack from great heights are advantages over land based forces. Uhm, right.>> Beachhead was in quotes. Sorry I should have been more specific. <<> I'm not trying to pick a fight here, or rehash some Thyatis vs. Alphatia > flamewar. Neither I am -- no claim of ever writing something "canonic". Even the idea that the fleets of Thyatis and Alphatia balance each other has no basis in canon (except the fact that Alphatia never reconquered Thyatis, and in the two invasion, the Alphatian skynavy didn't seem to have any role, which still isn't a decisive factor). My main interest in this thread is to gather opinions on the aerial fleets, and your comments are welcome.>> Okay. I just wanted a clarification. The thread went from a list of skyship and aerial units, then dragons got included. I just got a bit lost or something. As far as the "not trying to pick a fight" that was more a precaution than anything. As far as the dragon kingdoms, I like that idea. One thing I would add is an area of nuetral ground, someplace that all dragons hold in reverence. There is an old legend about real world elephants and a place where they go to die. Perhaps dragons could have a sacred place where aged dragons go to die. I would suggest somewhere up in the mountains, maybe even on Skothar. Or perhaps it bears a portals leading to the Draconic Immortals' pocket planes. It becomes a place of judgement, with worthy dragons moving on to the plane of their aligned draconic immortal. It could be a way to include the Blackmoor Era Dragonlord into the mix, he serving as judge. I did some work on the Blackmoor Dragonlord and his rise to Immortal status and role within the Immortals. I might have a copy stuck away somewhere on a Cd or floppy. If not I could whip up a quick overview. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 15:04:51 EST From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Air fleets in Mystara ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 15:00:38 -0400 From: Steven Carter Subject: Re: Vedr. [MYSTARA] Air fleets in Mystara I would never have imagined Asiatic dragons being very... interventionist. Even more than European dragons I would expect them to be manipulators and teachers. It's easy to see them being involved behind the scenes spurring the Ochaleans to succession, especially if they are part of the Ochalean faith/religion/philosophy. Why would they support foreigners so overtly? I know "canon" goes against this theory but I'd say that Ochalea's population figures are only census records of the major centres. The rural folks aren't even counted. And maybe women aren't either.=20 Despite the fact that they are "supposed" to be citizens. However the rural folks are much more likely to worship spirits or dragons. Then again "canon" says Ochalea doesn't have many monsters. Which to me is way too boring. And yeah, Ochalea is overlooked and neglected. ;) On 11/10/05, Havard Faanes wrote: > Roger, I really like this idea! > > With Ochaela being a China-like country, it does make > alot of sense to have it be populated by a large > number of Lawful-aligned dragons, who would have the > kind of attitude that you describe. Also, this helps > explain why Thyatis no longer has dragon riders after > the end of WotI since Ochaela is now independent. > > Looking forward to seeing your gazeteer! ;-D > > H=E5vard > > --- Libramus skrev: > > > Giampaolo Agosta wrote: > > > > > Joe Mason ha scritto: > > > > > >> > > >> Perhaps a dragon nation is allied to Thyatis and > > agrees to provide > > >> "troops" (NOT mounts!) solely because of the > > mutual hatred of Alphatia. > > >> After WotI, with Alphatia destroyed, they would > > part ways more-or-less > > >> amicably because the threat is gone. > > > > > > > > > Nice idea, indeed. Who could he be? Khanistar? > > Druuwmet? > > > > > > GP > > > > Actually... maybe the 'dragon nation' is native to > > Ochalea. > > > > We're talking about a place that's incredibly thinly > > populated, after > > all (125,000 people, 50,000 of which live n or > > around the city of > > Beitung, and seven other coastal towns), lots of > > thinly explored forests > > and hills, and a land area the size of any three > > nations in southeastern > > Brun. The existence of a large number of dragons > > hasn't appeared yet in > > the Almanacs or other source material, but it'd be > > easy to retcon it in, > > and Ochalea easily has space for fifty or more > > dragons. > > > > These dragons might be willing to serve as the heavy > > backbone of the RAF > > purely as a defensive measure - but refuse to lead > > any action against > > Serraine, Thyatian expansionism northwards and > > westwards into Brun, et > > cetera. When Ochalea secedes from the Empire in > > 1007 AC, the dragons > > choose to resign their commissions - and refuse to > > return to duty even > > after Thyatis expands, since Alphatia no longer is a > > threat. So the > > balance of power stays more or less intact, and we > > get several dozen > > powerful, cunning, militarily-trained dragons > > sitting on Ochalea as an > > added bonus. > > > > (Ochalea's always been a place that I feel gets > > short shrift. I should > > probably start a larger GAZ writeup.) > > > > - Rodger Burns > > libramus@scn.org > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: > > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > > To unsubscribe, send email to > > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 08:29:32 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Air fleets in Mystara Alex Benson ha scritto: > > Okay. I just wanted a clarification. The thread went from a list of skyship and aerial units, then dragons got included. I just got a bit lost or something. As far as the "not trying to pick a fight" that was more a precaution than anything. Ok. > As far as the dragon kingdoms, I like that idea. One thing I would add is an area of nuetral ground, someplace that all dragons hold in reverence. There is an old legend about real world elephants and a place where they go to die. Perhaps dragons could have a sacred place where aged dragons go to die. I would suggest somewhere up in the mountains, maybe even on Skothar. Or perhaps it bears a portals leading to the Draconic Immortals' pocket planes. It becomes a place of judgement, with worthy dragons moving on to the plane of their aligned draconic immortal. It could be a way to include the Blackmoor Era Dragonlord into the mix, he serving as judge. I did some work on the Blackmoor Dragonlord and his rise to Immortal status and role within the Immortals. I might have a copy stuck away somewhere on a Cd or floppy. If not I could whip up a quick overview. That would also be interesting -- there isn't much on the past of dragons and what they where up to during the Blackmoor age. GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 08:35:30 +0100 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Vedr. Re: [MYSTARA] Vedr. [MYSTARA] Air fleets in Mystara Havard Faanes ha scritto: > > Yes, that is true. I wasnt sure what you meant with > the war in Norwold at first, but you are right, the > events from CM1 will be problematic with this > sollution. Ofcourse, unifying the CM series with WotI > is problematic as well, so we might have to tweak some > things to figure this out. Yes, the WotI version of Mystara doesn't include CM1 anyway, since the conflict between Alphatia and Thyatis is moved to the IoD and then Thyatis itself, while Norwold is marginal. Still, if there was a nation of thousands of anti-Alphatian dragons in Norwold, by the end of WotI Alpha would have been attacked. > Perhaps they kept out of > that one since the Alphatians didnt bring in all of > their fleet? Possible, but Alphatia still was apparently going to win. Unless there was some deal between the pro-Alphatian Immortals and the Great One that Vanya could not match. GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 9 Nov 2005 to 10 Nov 2005 (#2005-208) ***************************************************************