Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 23 Oct 2006 to 24 Oct 2006 (#2006-171) From: MYSTARA-L automatic digest system Date: 25/10/2006, 18:00 To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 12 messages totalling 1057 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Problem Player? (12) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 09:46:40 +0300 From: Ville V Lahde Subject: Re: Problem Player? The zombies are an easy problem - they cannot speak. One needs to =20 speak a command word to use most magic items. Some can be used "at =20 will", but the zombies are out there too. Mindless creatures can use =20 only magical swords and such "passive" items. But seriously, I know what you mean. Some players and some DMs differ =20 in their basic attitude to the game, and that can lead to frictions. =20 I've met both players and DMs who thought that the main thing in rpgs =20 was to challenge and "win" the other one. If a DM does this things =20 detonate pretty soon - players get frustruated. But in the case of a =20 player, the gaming group can slowly become dysfunctional. The first thing you might try is to have a talk with the gaming group. =20 Not to accuse the player of anything. He didn't do nothing wrong - in =20 a sense he was also reality-testing your rpg world. If you play =20 Mystaran OD&D for example, the pretty powerful spells really should =20 affect the world and the way wars are waged, disease is countered - =20 and how tactic warfare develops. But you might want to discuss what =20 kind of stories, what kind of fantasy world you as a group wish to play. Another thing is that such player gimmicks when they try to make magic =20 work in new an inventive ways can always come back at them. Devise =20 your own and let the NPCs use them. (This can lead to a sort of arms =20 race though.) And: for example using greek fire against ships is not an automatic =20 success. Mystaran ships should be pretty well prepared against fire =20 attacks: fireballs should be the main magical weapon in naval warfare! =20 So navy soldiers tend to stay dispersed, key elements are protected =20 from mundane fire damage (like siege warfare was with wet leather), =20 etc. Firebombing is still a good tactic, but not an a-bomb. If the =20 players wish magic to have inventive effects on the world, the world =20 will have a response. But in the end the first point is most important. Gaming doesn't stay =20 fun for long if there is a conflict between ways of gaming. If a group =20 wishes, the DM and the players can compete and challenge each other =20 (there are rpgs designed precisely for this!). But if a DM wishes to =20 portray an epic narrative, one player wishes to immerse in the =20 psychology of a PC, another wishes to see a socially and politically =20 complex fantasy world, and one sees the game as a tactical and =20 intellectual challenge, we might be heading for trouble. Not =20 necessarily though. Every campaign is a "social contract" between the =20 group, and different perceptions of the game can be blanced if people =20 can compromise from their positions. This is the only real solution to such problems, other than autocratic =20 game-mastering. And that never leads to anything good. Ville ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 06:30:34 -0500 From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Problem Player? The Greek Fire bottles will do hull damage to the ships, assuming that the player managed to hit the ships. Assuming he is flying at 30 mph and dropping the bottles without benefit of a bombsight unless he is within easy bowshot he might need to hit AC -2... You might want to have a bomber table: Stationary Target: Base AC 2 Target house-sized or larger: AC 4 Target moving 10 mph or less: -2 to AC Target moving 11-20 mph: -4 to AC Target moving 21-30 mph: -6 to AC Target moving faster than 30 mph: - 8 to AC Target tacking: -2 to AC Target evading: -6 to AC Sea state is not calm: -2 to AC Sea state is rough: -4 to AC Tailwind: -1 to AC Headwind: -2 to AC Crosswind: -4 to AC Every 50' of altitude: -1 to AC So, a mage dropping bottles of Greek Fire on a ship evading at 15 mph, in a tailwind, from 200 feet would have AC 4 -4 for speed -6 for evading -1 for tailwind, and -4 for altitude is a total of AC -11. If your mage can hit that, fine... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Kelly" To: Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 5:13 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] Problem Player? I had a player this last weekend who decided he could get Zombies to walk to a secret hide out and snap a charged wand, which would do massive amount of damage? Then he used his ring of flying dropping bottles of greekfire on ships, saying they were destroyed. I have a bad feeling I was horribly manipulated. Was I? JKWolf Joe Kelly Office Services Clerk DAVIS & COMPANY LLP Suite 2800, Park Place 666 Burrard Street, Vancouver, B.C. V6C 2Z7 Phone 604.643.6365 This e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and do not copy, use or disclose it. Please advise us if you do not want to receive unencrypted e-mails. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 09:10:27 -0300 From: Steven Carter Subject: Re: Problem Player? "Take the wand. Go into the lair then break the wand." "Hrrrnnnn." "I said, take the wand." "Good... no wait don't eat it! No! Don't break it yet!" "Hrrrnnnn." "Now go into the lair and break the wand." "No! Stop! Don't break the wand yet." "Hrrrnnnn." "Go INTO the LAIR. The LAIR! Go! Now!" "Hrrrnnnn." "And don't forget to break the wand!" "Damn!" Meanwhile, inside the lair. "What was that Dave? Sounds like a mad dual-class wizard-cleric controlling zombies." "Zombies. They creap me out." "Yeah. Shoulda used ninjas." "Yeah, or dinosaurs." .... Just make them work for it. On 24/10/06, George Hrabovsky wrote: > The Greek Fire bottles will do hull damage to the ships, assuming that the > player managed to hit the ships. Assuming he is flying at 30 mph and > dropping the bottles without benefit of a bombsight unless he is within easy > bowshot he might need to hit AC -2... > You might want to have a bomber table: > > Stationary Target: Base AC 2 > Target house-sized or larger: AC 4 > Target moving 10 mph or less: -2 to AC > Target moving 11-20 mph: -4 to AC > Target moving 21-30 mph: -6 to AC > Target moving faster than 30 mph: - 8 to AC > Target tacking: -2 to AC > Target evading: -6 to AC > Sea state is not calm: -2 to AC > Sea state is rough: -4 to AC > Tailwind: -1 to AC > Headwind: -2 to AC > Crosswind: -4 to AC > Every 50' of altitude: -1 to AC > > So, a mage dropping bottles of Greek Fire on a ship evading at 15 mph, in a > tailwind, from 200 feet would have AC 4 -4 for speed -6 for evading -1 for > tailwind, and -4 for altitude is a total of AC -11. If your mage can hit > that, fine... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Kelly" > To: > Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 5:13 PM > Subject: [MYSTARA] Problem Player? > > > I had a player this last weekend who decided he could get Zombies to walk to > a secret hide out and snap a charged wand, which would do massive amount of > damage? Then he used his ring of flying dropping bottles of greekfire on > ships, saying they were destroyed. I have a bad feeling I was horribly > manipulated. Was I? > > JKWolf > > Joe Kelly > Office Services Clerk > DAVIS & COMPANY LLP > Suite 2800, Park Place > 666 Burrard Street, > Vancouver, B.C. > V6C 2Z7 > Phone 604.643.6365 > > > This e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and may be privileged. > If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately by > return e-mail, delete this e-mail and do not copy, use or disclose it. > Please advise us if you do not want to receive unencrypted e-mails. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 09:34:24 -0600 From: Lintan Subject: Re: Problem Player? Thank you!! I read you email this morning it was a good fun way to start out a day... I seriously laugh Out Loud. I totally agree with you about the zombies. I would like to add my 2 serfs 1.) Did the secret lair have more them one room, if so where would the zombie try to break the wand, "Zombie walks through the door into the main hallway leading into the many rooms of the lair. 2 guard look down the hallway from there guard station at the zombie And Boom! When the smoke clear there are 2 guard looking at each other confused" Or "Take the wand. Go into the main room in the lair then break the wand." Meanwhile, inside the lair. 2 guards in the hallway see a zombie walking up holding a wand "Say Dave Look at that its zombies carrying a wand, Get it." Wack, bang, hack "Dave it's not even fighting back" Wacks, bang, hack - Dead! "Sweet a free wand" 2.) This one is definitely a DM call. Is it the act of breaking a wand the cause it to go boom or is it the Intent to make it go boom that does it? If it's the act of breaking that cause it to go boom then on the same note as zombie Bombs there should be a percentile chance that a person carrying a wand hit by an attach should go boom. The warrior swing his sword with a blow that should have hack you in half but luckily for you his blow is absorbed by your Wand holster at you waist. Oh wait is there a fully charges Wand in there. BOOOM!!!!! If it's the Intent then a zombie walks into the lair and SNAP - 5000Gp+ go poof and the zombie says "Hrrrnnnn." -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On Behalf Of Steven Carter Sent: October 24, 2006 6:10 AM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Problem Player? "Take the wand. Go into the lair then break the wand." "Hrrrnnnn." "I said, take the wand." "Good... no wait don't eat it! No! Don't break it yet!" "Hrrrnnnn." "Now go into the lair and break the wand." "No! Stop! Don't break the wand yet." "Hrrrnnnn." "Go INTO the LAIR. The LAIR! Go! Now!" "Hrrrnnnn." "And don't forget to break the wand!" "Damn!" Meanwhile, inside the lair. "What was that Dave? Sounds like a mad dual-class wizard-cleric controlling zombies." "Zombies. They creap me out." "Yeah. Shoulda used ninjas." "Yeah, or dinosaurs." ... Just make them work for it. On 24/10/06, George Hrabovsky wrote: > The Greek Fire bottles will do hull damage to the ships, assuming that the > player managed to hit the ships. Assuming he is flying at 30 mph and > dropping the bottles without benefit of a bombsight unless he is within easy > bowshot he might need to hit AC -2... > You might want to have a bomber table: > > Stationary Target: Base AC 2 > Target house-sized or larger: AC 4 > Target moving 10 mph or less: -2 to AC > Target moving 11-20 mph: -4 to AC > Target moving 21-30 mph: -6 to AC > Target moving faster than 30 mph: - 8 to AC > Target tacking: -2 to AC > Target evading: -6 to AC > Sea state is not calm: -2 to AC > Sea state is rough: -4 to AC > Tailwind: -1 to AC > Headwind: -2 to AC > Crosswind: -4 to AC > Every 50' of altitude: -1 to AC > > So, a mage dropping bottles of Greek Fire on a ship evading at 15 mph, in a > tailwind, from 200 feet would have AC 4 -4 for speed -6 for evading -1 for > tailwind, and -4 for altitude is a total of AC -11. If your mage can hit > that, fine... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Kelly" > To: > Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 5:13 PM > Subject: [MYSTARA] Problem Player? > > > I had a player this last weekend who decided he could get Zombies to walk to > a secret hide out and snap a charged wand, which would do massive amount of > damage? Then he used his ring of flying dropping bottles of greekfire on > ships, saying they were destroyed. I have a bad feeling I was horribly > manipulated. Was I? > > JKWolf > > Joe Kelly > Office Services Clerk > DAVIS & COMPANY LLP > Suite 2800, Park Place > 666 Burrard Street, > Vancouver, B.C. > V6C 2Z7 > Phone 604.643.6365 > > > This e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and may be privileged. > If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately by > return e-mail, delete this e-mail and do not copy, use or disclose it. > Please advise us if you do not want to receive unencrypted e-mails. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 10:31:03 -0700 From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Problem Player? Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I guess I really let the player = manipulate the game. He has a tendency to say this game is boorring or he = says that I complicate matters. Details details. He even told me don't = worry about the story line. He'll make the campaign interesting. I've = decided his character is going to die. The character is too cocky for her = own good. The underground base was the base of over 300 high level drow, = and he's not worried about them? I see an incoming Implosion spell in his = character's future.=20 JK Wolf Joe Kelly Office Services Clerk DAVIS & COMPANY LLP Suite 2800, Park Place 666 Burrard Street, Vancouver, B.C. V6C 2Z7 Phone 604.643.6365 >>> lintan_saver@HOTMAIL.COM 10/24/06 8:34 am >>> Thank you!!=20 I read you email this morning it was a good fun way to start out a day... = I seriously laugh Out Loud. I totally agree with you about the zombies.=20 I would like to add my 2 serfs 1.) Did the secret lair have more them one room, if so where would the zombie try to break the wand,=20 "Zombie walks through the door into the main hallway leading into the many rooms of the lair. 2 guard look down the hallway from there guard station = at the zombie And Boom! When the smoke clear there are 2 guard looking at = each other confused" Or=20 "Take the wand. Go into the main room in the lair then break the wand." Meanwhile, inside the lair. 2 guards in the hallway see a zombie walking up holding a wand "Say Dave Look at that its zombies carrying a wand, Get it." Wack, bang, hack=20 "Dave it's not even fighting back" Wacks, bang, hack - Dead! "Sweet a free wand" 2.) This one is definitely a DM call. Is it the act of breaking a wand the cause it to go boom or is it the Intent to make it go boom that does it? If it's the act of breaking that cause it to go boom then on the same note as zombie Bombs there should be a percentile chance that a person carrying = a wand hit by an attach should go boom. The warrior swing his sword with a blow that should have hack you in half but luckily for you his blow is absorbed by your Wand holster at you = waist. Oh wait is there a fully charges Wand in there. BOOOM!!!!! If it's the Intent then a zombie walks into the lair and SNAP - 5000Gp+ go poof and the zombie says "Hrrrnnnn." -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On = Behalf Of Steven Carter Sent: October 24, 2006 6:10 AM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Problem Player? "Take the wand. Go into the lair then break the wand." "Hrrrnnnn." "I said, take the wand." "Good... no wait don't eat it! No! Don't break it yet!" "Hrrrnnnn." "Now go into the lair and break the wand." "No! Stop! Don't break the wand yet." "Hrrrnnnn." "Go INTO the LAIR. The LAIR! Go! Now!" "Hrrrnnnn." "And don't forget to break the wand!" "Damn!" Meanwhile, inside the lair. "What was that Dave? Sounds like a mad dual-class wizard-cleric controlling zombies." "Zombies. They creap me out." "Yeah. Shoulda used ninjas." "Yeah, or dinosaurs." .... Just make them work for it. On 24/10/06, George Hrabovsky wrote: > The Greek Fire bottles will do hull damage to the ships, assuming that = the > player managed to hit the ships. Assuming he is flying at 30 mph and > dropping the bottles without benefit of a bombsight unless he is within easy > bowshot he might need to hit AC -2... > You might want to have a bomber table: > > Stationary Target: Base AC 2 > Target house-sized or larger: AC 4 > Target moving 10 mph or less: -2 to AC > Target moving 11-20 mph: -4 to AC > Target moving 21-30 mph: -6 to AC > Target moving faster than 30 mph: - 8 to AC > Target tacking: -2 to AC > Target evading: -6 to AC > Sea state is not calm: -2 to AC > Sea state is rough: -4 to AC > Tailwind: -1 to AC > Headwind: -2 to AC > Crosswind: -4 to AC > Every 50' of altitude: -1 to AC > > So, a mage dropping bottles of Greek Fire on a ship evading at 15 mph, = in a > tailwind, from 200 feet would have AC 4 -4 for speed -6 for evading -1 = for > tailwind, and -4 for altitude is a total of AC -11. If your mage can hit > that, fine... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Kelly" > To: > Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 5:13 PM > Subject: [MYSTARA] Problem Player? > > > I had a player this last weekend who decided he could get Zombies to = walk to > a secret hide out and snap a charged wand, which would do massive amount of > damage? Then he used his ring of flying dropping bottles of greekfire on > ships, saying they were destroyed. I have a bad feeling I was horribly > manipulated. Was I? > > JKWolf > > Joe Kelly > Office Services Clerk > DAVIS & COMPANY LLP > Suite 2800, Park Place > 666 Burrard Street, > Vancouver, B.C. > V6C 2Z7 > Phone 604.643.6365 > > > This e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and may be privileged.= > If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately by > return e-mail, delete this e-mail and do not copy, use or disclose it. > Please advise us if you do not want to receive unencrypted e-mails. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=20 > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com=20 > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=20 > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com=20 > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=20 The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com=20 To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=20 The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com=20 To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. This e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and do not copy, use or disclose it. Please advise us if you do not want to receive unencrypted e-mails. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 14:02:34 -0400 From: Joe Mason Subject: Re: Problem Player? Joe Kelly wrote: > Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I guess I really let the player manipulate the game. He has a tendency to say this game is boorring or he says that I complicate matters. Details details. He even told me don't worry about the story line. He'll make the campaign interesting. I've decided his character is going to die. The character is too cocky for her own good. The underground base was the base of over 300 high level drow, and he's not worried about them? I see an incoming Implosion spell in his character's future. > Remember, you can fudge all the dice rolls - I suggest giving him a good scare instead of killing him outright. Reduce him to 3 hp and then when he drinks a healing potion make him save vs. Poison. If he has ready access to healing spells, hit him with a spell or a poison or something that makes all healing ineffective. Have somebody cast a spell that does d6 hit points the first round and *double* every round after that (2d6, 4d6, 8d6, 16d6) - by the time it hits 8d6, he should start getting worried. (If he has easy access to Dispel, make it do one last round of 16d6 damage before it goes away.) It's way more fun to face impossible odds and *barely* pull through than it is to waltz through them. If you think he really needs to learn that he can die, at least give him a dramatic death instead of just having the first spellcaster he comes across kill him instantly. Joe ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 13:38:06 -0500 From: Jeff Heikkinen Subject: Re: Problem Player? I haven't read the whole thread, but it's obvious from the few posts I have read that it's gone down a garden path. NEVER do petty in-game stuff like both of you are talking about in response to problems that are, at heart, out of game, like disruptive players or mismatched expectations of the game. ESPECIALLY in any way that can be taken as GM power-tripping. It will only make the problem worse; people tend to dig in their heels when treated that way, and in addition to that, the player will now have the LEGITIMATE complaint that the GM is playing favourites (and though you seem to have missed the memo, that's a BIG no-no). TALK TO THE PLAYER OUT OF GAME. Find out what the problem is and discuss it like mature adults. Or, if the player is a jackass about that too, or he isn't but it becomes apparent that your preferred playstyles are just too different, part ways. You're not under any obligation to game with people you just aren't compatible with. Above all, don't assume your way of playing is the only legitimate one. For such a small hobby, RPGers are an amazingly diverse bunch. For any statement you can possibly make of the form "X is the wrong way to play", there is almost certainly someone out there who has not only tried X and found that they liked it, but can offer an articulate defense of that preference. Joe Mason wrote: > Joe Kelly wrote: > > >> Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I guess I really let the player manipulate the game. He has a tendency to say this game is boorring or he says that I complicate matters. Details details. He even told me don't worry about the story line. He'll make the campaign interesting. I've decided his character is going to die. The character is too cocky for her own good. The underground base was the base of over 300 high level drow, and he's not worried about them? I see an incoming Implosion spell in his character's future. >> > > Remember, you can fudge all the dice rolls - I suggest giving him a good > scare instead of killing him outright. Reduce him to 3 hp and then when > he drinks a healing potion make him save vs. Poison. If he has ready > access to healing spells, hit him with a spell or a poison or something > that makes all healing ineffective. Have somebody cast a spell that > does d6 hit points the first round and *double* every round after that > (2d6, 4d6, 8d6, 16d6) - by the time it hits 8d6, he should start getting > worried. (If he has easy access to Dispel, make it do one last round of > 16d6 damage before it goes away.) It's way more fun to face impossible > odds and *barely* pull through than it is to waltz through them. If you > think he really needs to learn that he can die, at least give him a > dramatic death instead of just having the first spellcaster he comes > across kill him instantly. > > Joe > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > -- "You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror." - George W. Bush, interview with CBS News, Washington D.C., Sept. 6, 2006 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 14:59:25 -0400 From: Joe Mason Subject: Re: Problem Player? Jeff Heikkinen wrote: > NEVER do petty in-game stuff like both of you are talking about in > response to problems that are, at heart, out of game, like disruptive > players or mismatched expectations of the game. ESPECIALLY in any way > that can be taken as GM power-tripping. It will only make the problem > worse; people tend to dig in their heels when treated that way, and in > addition to that, the player will now have the LEGITIMATE complaint that > the GM is playing favourites (and though you seem to have missed the > memo, that's a BIG no-no). I disagree - the problem here is that the player feels his character is invincible. He finds the game boring and isn't worried about any challenges the DM throws against him (and he said so, in so many words). I was giving advice on how to ramp up the challenge factor of the game. I specifically said to "scare" him instead of just killing him, and I think all the suggestions I gave are dramatic situations that would be fun to RP. Joe ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 12:37:01 -0700 From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Problem Player? The major problem with the player is he doesn't want all the "little = details" about something, then decides to be intricate with what he is = doing. He wants to skip the formalities of chance (dice rolling). So as = far as he is concerned I can skip the details on the scenario and he will = figure it out with details. He wants it both ways which is ridiculous. For = instance: The group has a mindlink spell which will allow him to teleport if he gets = into danger back to the party, but he insists he has a mindshielding ring = when it comes to anyone trying to read his mind. He's essentially a = powergamer. I think I have to break him.=20 JKWolf Joe Kelly Office Services Clerk DAVIS & COMPANY LLP Suite 2800, Park Place 666 Burrard Street, Vancouver, B.C. V6C 2Z7 Phone 604.643.6365 This e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and do not copy, use or disclose it. Please advise us if you do not want to receive unencrypted e-mails. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 15:56:51 -0400 From: Joe Mason Subject: Re: Problem Player? Joe Kelly wrote: > The major problem with the player is he doesn't want all the "little details" about something, then decides to be intricate with what he is doing. He wants to skip the formalities of chance (dice rolling). So as far as he is concerned I can skip the details on the scenario and he will figure it out with details. He wants it both ways which is ridiculous. For instance: > The group has a mindlink spell which will allow him to teleport if he gets into danger back to the party, but he insists he has a mindshielding ring when it comes to anyone trying to read his mind. He's essentially a powergamer. I think I have to break him. > Ah, that's a bit different - if he doesn't care about the "little details", that's a preference for play style and should be accomodated if you want everyone to have fun. You just have to be firm with the "you can't do that" sometimes. In the case of the Greek fire, sure he can drop it and do damage (it's a pretty cool idea), it just shouldn't automatically kill everything. If he doesn't like a lot of dice rolling, that's fair too - it can really suck if you have a cool idea at the climax of a fight and happen to roll low. It sounds like this player wants a more cinematic type of game. It's easy to accomodate him in this - for instance, with the Greek fire you could describe it washing across the deck and people perishing in flames, which those that are on the other side of the deck point at him and start readying some sort of cannon... since he doesn't care about the details, you can easily fudge the number of people that were on the ship and say that he killed a lot of them, but there are still more to deal with. The trick is to make it cool. I suggest you pick up a copy of "7th Sea", from Alderac Entertainment - it's a completely different system, but it's got some great DM advice and tricks on how to handle things like this which you could adapt to D&D. You can get the two main books in PDF for $14.95 each (I haven't looked around to see if it's cheaper elsewhere): http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=90_380 Notably, the "drama dice" system will help with players who don't like dice rolls if you can't trust them to play truly diceless (which is a fine playing style if you can trust everyone to stay balanced). Basically you give everyone a pool of dice they can spend on rolls that they really want to succeed so that they don't fail disappointingly at dramatic moments. You award more dice when the player does something you consider really good roleplaying, which gives you a way to reward behaviour you enjoy instead of always punishing him by not letting him do the cool things he wants. Joe ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 12:58:06 -0700 From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Problem Player? I found my player's definition. He's a hare.=20 The Hare=20 Quote: GM: "The king says to you..."=20 Hare: "Yeah yeah, what's he give us? Hurry up, we can clean out another = dungeon tonight if we hurry up and buy supplies!"=20 Description: Hares are those players who are constantly chasing the next = goal. These individuals rarely stop for breath as they plunge through = adventures, fixated on completing scenarios. When hares meet, they argue = about how best to complete missions and start comparing their conquests in = a "mine's better than yours" type mentality. Finishing difficult scenarios = is what they live for, roleplaying is just window dressing around mission = facts.=20 Good points: The hare's enthusiasm usually prods the party into action.=20 Bad points: Hares don't roleplay, they merely prompt the GM for information= .. Any role-intensive scenarios will be lost on the hare.=20 GM's strategy:=20 Hares are generally attentive players but have a tendency to look to the = raw facts only. To accommodate a hare, you need to construct your = scenarios with a little more care, ensuring that each session has a = distinct goal that the players need to achieve. Campaigns will become a = little more like a series of linked one-session games, but don't let this = worry you.=20 Accentuate the human factor of each adventure and ensure that most goals = can ONLY be accomplished through proper interaction with NPCs. Given a = little time, hares will come to value the interaction with NPCs and will = start to see the challenge in getting what they want out of other = characters, suiting their general outlook. This will start them down the = path to true roleplaying if the pace is managed properly.=20 this fits him to a T. If he finds out something he decides how he will = manipulate and stir up the nest. JK Wolf Joe Kelly Office Services Clerk DAVIS & COMPANY LLP Suite 2800, Park Place 666 Burrard Street, Vancouver, B.C. V6C 2Z7 Phone 604.643.6365 This e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and do not copy, use or disclose it. Please advise us if you do not want to receive unencrypted e-mails. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 20:28:10 -0400 From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: Problem Player? Steven Carter wrote: > "Take the wand. Go into the lair then break the wand." > > "Hrrrnnnn." I agree you can't give zombies too complicated instructions. Maybe you should have a rule that they can be given one instruction at a time, and at least have to be within line of sight if not verbal commands. But at any rate, it probably wouldn't bother me too much if someone wanted to waste a whole wand for that (they seem so rare in my game). Just make sure the damage a wand does when it's broken isn't worth the breaking ;) >> Then he used his ring of flying dropping bottles of greekfire on >> ships, saying they were destroyed. I have a bad feeling I was horribly >> manipulated. Was I? I really don't know anything about greekfire, but if they're essentially bombs, where did this player get them all? I'm not one to really restrict players from "using up" their good items, but I make them hard to find, and definitely roll for the damage. He can't just say "oh I destroyed all the ships." Angelo ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 23 Oct 2006 to 24 Oct 2006 (#2006-171) ****************************************************************