Subject: MYSTARA-L Digest - 20 Apr 2006 to 21 Apr 2006 (#2006-75) From: MYSTARA-L automatic digest system Date: 22/04/2006, 17:00 To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Reply-to: Mystara RPG Discussion There are 10 messages totalling 661 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Claw (Was: Re: [MYSTARA] Anyone do Red Steel?) (5) 2. A couple of questions 3. Sneak Peek and Italian vacation 4. Mystara & Ravenloft 5. Has anyone ever... (2) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 07:45:39 -0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C1tila_Pires_dos_Santos?= Subject: Re: Claw (Was: Re: [MYSTARA] Anyone do Red Steel?) By the way, what is the orign of the lupin? Are they related to the hutaakans or the gnolls? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 13:38:45 +0200 From: Havard Faanes Subject: Re: A couple of questions --- Andrew Theisen skrev: > > 2. Same > > for the Broken Lands. Is that really what > > the orcs call it? > Along those lines, maybe it is the land of the Blue > Knife (in honor of the quest that brought them > there?) Or some kind of variation of Oenkmar? That would work! :) Ofcourse, we could go with ideas from the Orcwars! game. Maybe they just call it "Our Potatoes"? ;) Håvard ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:57:31 -0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C1tila_Pires_dos_Santos?= Subject: Re: Claw (Was: Re: [MYSTARA] Anyone do Red Steel?) Nevermind, i found the link ( http://pandius.com/lupnhist.html ) =3D) But if lupin, hutaakans and gnolls can interbreed,they are, somehow, related? Pehaps even Pflarr were some kind of evolved lupin? If so, hutaakans and gnolls (and even kobolds, if lupins were one beastmen) are lupin breeds? Or the lupin and hutaakans/gnolls falls in the same case of the humans/elfes/half-elves, with no "missing link" but still possible to interbreed? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 16:01:56 +0200 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Claw (Was: Re: [MYSTARA] Anyone do Red Steel?) Átila Pires dos Santos ha scritto: > Nevermind, i found the link ( http://pandius.com/lupnhist.html ) =) > But if lupin, hutaakans and gnolls can interbreed,they are, somehow, > related? Pehaps even Pflarr were some kind of evolved lupin? If so, > hutaakans and gnolls (and even kobolds, if lupins were one beastmen) are > lupin breeds? Or the lupin and hutaakans/gnolls falls in the same case of > the humans/elfes/half-elves, with no "missing link" but still possible to > interbreed? Yes, Lupin, Gnolls and Hutaakans can interbreed. However, in Mystara being able to interbreed (even producing fertile offsprings) is no basis to belong to the same species. Pflarr was a unique construct (some kind of intelligent, free-willed, vaguely lupin-shaped golem), not a member of any species. Hutaakans might have been evolved by Pflarr from ancient Lupin stock (Aardovai), and the Gnolls were specifically created to mimic Hutaakans. Kobolds are probably Beastmen with some Aardovai blood. Note that Orc and Humans can interbreed, even though there's no direct relation (Beastmen were created at some point in the Blackmoor era by Hel, IIRC, Humans evolved much earlier). My opinion is that Immortals that create new race tend to reuse as much as possible the existing genetic stock -- maybe it is less costly or otherwise easier to create species that are based on existing one. Bye, GPP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 16:25:50 +0200 From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Claw (Was: Re: [MYSTARA] Anyone do Red Steel?) Átila Pires dos Santos ha scritto: > > I'm working on it right now and will finish as soon as possible =) > By the way, i found an claw fan site that has the pics of almost all enemies > of the game (except the bosses, but all the eight can be seen at the > official page) > > http://claw.ben-ts.net/officer.gif > http://claw.ben-ts.net/soldier.gif > The lupin enemies of La Roca. They're quite generic (like much in the game), > but if i had to choose, i would say their clothes look rather "french" than > "spanish". Just my opinion =) They would probably convert to standard renardois lupins, or to Ispan Pistolero mercenaries from the Savage Baronies. > http://claw.ben-ts.net/thief.gif Foxfolk Thief? > http://claw.ben-ts.net/cutthroat.gif > Generic bandits from Thieves Forest. Is the second one like Torreóner > Pit-Bulls? Looks more like an Eusdrian Bulldog. > http://claw.ben-ts.net/guard.gif > http://claw.ben-ts.net/guard2.gif > Puerto del Lobo city guard Likely Grand Bloodhounds -- they're the most common breed in the Gendarmes of Renardie. > http://claw.ben-ts.net/rtp.gif > http://claw.ben-ts.net/bear.gif > Enemies that can be found at the Shipyards. (The second one is not rakasta > or lupin. The name of the file suggest that he is from some "bear-people" > race; my first impression was that he was from an "giant rat-people" race, > spceccialy because there are an "diminutive rat-people" race in the game > (not appearing in this site)... is there anything like these in Mystara?) Not that I know of. There are wererats, of course, but they aren't present in the Savage Coast. I do remember something about a rat-folk being created by Mrikitat (the wererat Immortal), but it might have been from some article in the Vaults. Also, the first picture also looks vaguely rat-like. > http://claw.ben-ts.net/pegleg.gif > http://claw.ben-ts.net/crazyhook.gif >>> From Pirates Cove. Is the first one like lupin Pistoleros? Uhm, a Pistolero would look like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Cocker_Spaniel > http://claw.ben-ts.net/siren.gif > http://claw.ben-ts.net/mercat.gif > Some kind of mercats from the Undersea Caves. I never saw something like > that in Mystara, but a saw a lot of differents racial combinations at the > Savage Coast, these mercats don't seen too weird to me (specially because > they might have been created to guard the undersea way to the Tiger Island) Well, the sea off the Savage Coast is not described, except for a few of its inhabitants (the Sea Hermit). Given the Sea Hermit description, it looks like that the species that dwell in the deep sea are different from those of Known World Undersea. So mercats could easily be introduced. > http://claw.ben-ts.net/tiger.gif > http://claw.ben-ts.net/tigerwhite.gif > Followers of Bastet, well-trained guardians of her temple (propably an > ancient Nithian ruin occupied by her followers). They look more tiger-like, > but they probably are just rakastas as well They can be Sherkasta, a tiger-like Rakasta breed. Surely, they must come from far away, since the Sherkasta usually live in Skothar, but this may not be a problem, since they would be serving directly Bastet. Note that Bastet is the ancestor of Tiger-like Rakasta, while the Lion-like Rakasta descend from her (human) husband, the shaman Kum-rah. So it's appropriate that Bastet has tiger-like servants. Bye, GP ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 17:36:01 +0200 From: la Volpe Subject: Re: Sneak Peek and Italian vacation > Another thing- I am going to Italy on business in > May. > I plan to spend a week or two in Pisa and Fiorenze > (Florence), and flying through Milan. As all my Italian acquaintances are through this > list, > I was wondering if any of you would like to meet in > said cities for a cop of coffee (I'm buying...). Hello Morph! It would be a good idea to have a meeting, with the other Italian guys (Agathokles, DM), and with you. I am positive about it! Giulio aka Iulius Sergius Scaevola ___________________________________ Bolletta salata? Passa a Yahoo! Messenger with Voice http://it.messenger.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 13:04:01 -0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C1tila_Pires_dos_Santos?= Subject: Re: Claw (Was: Re: [MYSTARA] Anyone do Red Steel?) On 4/21/06, Giampaolo Agosta wrote: > > =C1tila Pires dos Santos ha scritto: > > Nevermind, i found the link ( http://pandius.com/lupnhist.html ) =3D) > > But if lupin, hutaakans and gnolls can interbreed,they are, somehow, > > related? Pehaps even Pflarr were some kind of evolved lupin? If so, > > hutaakans and gnolls (and even kobolds, if lupins were one beastmen) ar= e > > lupin breeds? Or the lupin and hutaakans/gnolls falls in the same case > of > > the humans/elfes/half-elves, with no "missing link" but still possible > to > > interbreed? > > Yes, Lupin, Gnolls and Hutaakans can interbreed. However, in Mystara > being able to interbreed (even producing fertile offsprings) is no basis > to belong to the same species. And in all the other d&d worlds, like human/elven situation, right? Pflarr was a unique construct (some kind of intelligent, free-willed, > vaguely lupin-shaped golem), not a member of any species. That's true, i forgot that detail =3D) Hutaakans > might have been evolved by Pflarr from ancient Lupin stock (Aardovai), > and the Gnolls were specifically created to mimic Hutaakans. That's what i was thinking =3D) Kobolds are probably Beastmen with some Aardovai blood. Could lupin and kobold interbreed? That might sound disgusting (specially for a lupin), but i'm curious =3D) Note that Orc and Humans can interbreed, even though there's no direct > relation (Beastmen were created at some point in the Blackmoor era by > Hel, IIRC, Humans evolved much earlier). Half-orcs existed in the od&d and ad&d or just in the new d&d 3.0 and 3.5? These human/orc interbreed are like human/elven in the Know World (no half-orcs) or in the Savage Coast (where half-elf exists)? My opinion is that Immortals that create new race tend to reuse as much > as possible the existing genetic stock -- maybe it is less costly or > otherwise easier to create species that are based on existing one. Makes a lot of sense =3D) On 4/21/06, Giampaolo Agosta wrote: > > =C1tila Pires dos Santos ha scritto: > > > > I'm working on it right now and will finish as soon as possible =3D) > > By the way, i found an claw fan site that has the pics of almost all > enemies > > of the game (except the bosses, but all the eight can be seen at the > > official page) > > > > http://claw.ben-ts.net/officer.gif > > http://claw.ben-ts.net/soldier.gif > > The lupin enemies of La Roca. They're quite generic (like much in the > game), > > but if i had to choose, i would say their clothes look rather "french" > than > > "spanish". Just my opinion =3D) > > They would probably convert to standard renardois lupins, or to Ispan > Pistolero mercenaries from the Savage Baronies. Yes, both seen possible, specially now that i know how the Pistoleros look like, hehe =3D) (by the way, only now i got the "cocker-spaniard" joke, heh= ehe =3D) ) > http://claw.ben-ts.net/thief.gif > > Foxfolk Thief? I thought the same thing while reaing your article about the lupins at the Vaults of Pandius. The guys that created Claw must had read the article too= , hehe =3D) > http://claw.ben-ts.net/cutthroat.gif > > Generic bandits from Thieves Forest. Is the second one like Torre=F3ner > > Pit-Bulls? > > Looks more like an Eusdrian Bulldog. Yes, my mistake, when I saw "Torre=F3ner Pit-Bull", I underestood "Torre=F3= ner Bulldog". Sorry =3D) > http://claw.ben-ts.net/guard.gif > > http://claw.ben-ts.net/guard2.gif > > Puerto del Lobo city guard > > Likely Grand Bloodhounds -- they're the most common breed in the > Gendarmes of Renardie. I agree (well, i know very little about dog breeds and lupin breeds, whatever you say i'll believe and agree, hehe =3D) ) > http://claw.ben-ts.net/rtp.gif > > http://claw.ben-ts.net/bear.gif > > Enemies that can be found at the Shipyards. (The second one is not > rakasta > > or lupin. The name of the file suggest that he is from some > "bear-people" > > race; my first impression was that he was from an "giant rat-people" > race, > > spceccialy because there are an "diminutive rat-people" race in the gam= e > > (not appearing in this site)... is there anything like these in > Mystara?) > > Not that I know of. There are wererats, of course, but they aren't > present in the Savage Coast. I do remember something about a rat-folk > being created by Mrikitat (the wererat Immortal), but it might have been > from some article in the Vaults. My first thought was that they were wererats, but that would be strange, even if wererats were common there. I didn't find the article about the rat-folk, unfortunally. But i guess it's not a problem if we "forget" this one, at least for now =3D) (i'll do the same for the "morse-person" (like t= he Thanoi form Dragonlance?) that appears briefly during one of the cutscenes, hehe) Also, the first picture also looks vaguely rat-like. Yes, but i guess they were suposed to be cats/rakastas sailors > http://claw.ben-ts.net/pegleg.gif > > http://claw.ben-ts.net/crazyhook.gif > >>From Pirates Cove. Is the first one like lupin Pistoleros? > > Uhm, a Pistolero would look like this: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Cocker_Spaniel Thanks, i don't know much about dogs =3D) > http://claw.ben-ts.net/siren.gif > > http://claw.ben-ts.net/mercat.gif > > Some kind of mercats from the Undersea Caves. I never saw something lik= e > > that in Mystara, but a saw a lot of differents racial combinations at > the > > Savage Coast, these mercats don't seen too weird to me (specially > because > > they might have been created to guard the undersea way to the Tiger > Island) > > Well, the sea off the Savage Coast is not described, except for a few of > its inhabitants (the Sea Hermit). Given the Sea Hermit description, it > looks like that the species that dwell in the deep sea are different > from those of Known World Undersea. So mercats could easily be introduced= . I think the same. Another possibility is that they could be afflicted (Animal Form legacy) but otherwise regular merfolk, pehaps? > http://claw.ben-ts.net/tiger.gif > > http://claw.ben-ts.net/tigerwhite.gif > > Followers of Bastet, well-trained guardians of her temple (propably an > > ancient Nithian ruin occupied by her followers). They look more > tiger-like, > > but they probably are just rakastas as well > > They can be Sherkasta, a tiger-like Rakasta breed. Surely, they must > come from far away, since the Sherkasta usually live in Skothar, but > this may not be a problem, since they would be serving directly Bastet. > Note that Bastet is the ancestor of Tiger-like Rakasta, while the > Lion-like Rakasta descend from her (human) husband, the shaman Kum-rah. > So it's appropriate that Bastet has tiger-like servants. Very interesting. Pehaps she ordered her followers to travel to this island and rebuild/guard this Nithian ruin? After reading the article about the lupin and the story of Saimpt Cl=E9bard and realising how the Pistoleros looks like, I guess the best way to fir Claw and Mystara is the Renardy idea. I was thinking about if during the arrival of the Ispans (around 902-907) a small group of adventures/conquistadores from Narvaez conquered the southwestern part of Renardy, fouding the city of El Puerto Del Lobo (this name because the native lupins) and the fortress called La Roca to protect their newfounded barony. Pistoleros came with the Ispans, making this breed even after 100 yers after quite common in the region. When Cl=E9bard lupins arrived in Renardie, they helped the native lupins to defeat the narvaezans and reclaim the barony. As a reward for the help, Cl=E9bard became the new baron and rename El Puerto Del Lobo as Mons-en-Pl= =E9cy; La Roca as Cambourg; Baron=EDa de Puerto Lobo as Baronie de Marmandie. The map that claw found along his adventure is a hundred years old and stil= l brings the old names (funny, except from the map, no one during the game sa= y the mane of the city, just "the city on the map" or "the city that lies at the other side of the forest" (actually i'm guessing the excact words; i only have the portuguese version of the game), making this possibility very possible =3D) ) and not very accurate (something very common to XVI centur= y maps). The legacies that Claw and Wolvington have is, then, Ball of Fire, common in Renardy, Bellayne and Dunwick. If the merfolk possibility is true= , Tiger Island belongs to the group 2 of legacies by regions (very probable, since if El Puerto del Lobo is Mons-en-Pl=E9cy, the Pirates Cove is in the Tortle Tribelands, between the hills and the shore, very close to Renardy; Tiger Island would be southest the Pirates Cove, west or northwest of Protectorado da Presa). By the way, i realised that in Renardy map there is an battle site marked, but there's no battle name... pehaps Cl=E9bard's lupins and Narvaezans batt= le? =3D) I guess this way we could adapt Claw without changing anything at all ("Cocker-Espaniard" or "Cocker-Ispaniard" may be a nickname (probably pejorative) for the Pistoleros)! now i'm really sure, this can't be just coincidence! (By the way, i just discovered that now Claw is abandonware; somehow now i'm more relieved, i'm now feeling like really talking about Mystara instead of just trying to make someone buy the game (yes, monolith is not paying me, hehe =3DD)) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 13:01:24 EDT From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Mystara & Ravenloft Zemiros Sulescu is not a good choice as he is a nosferatu and he is a beneficial entity to his domain and its inhabitants. I would suggest Morphail, however even he lacks that dark and cruel evilness that Strahd has. I have always thought that the Glantrian Princes/esses should have domain powers over their principalities like the Dark Lords. Perhaps these powers are part of their powers for beign Glantri's highest nobles. To me, RL has always been seperated from other game settings due to its underlying cruel nature. You almost get the feelign that you cannot win, no matter how much you try. Even the "good guys" typically have a dark streak to them or are "tragic figures". The Vistani, of course, are true nuetrals, capable of bending the rules of RL and doing somethign most cannot....survive. One of the tie ins I tended to favor is that RL is a prison for the Dark Lords and serves as a form of pergatory for mortals. The Dark Powers are not evil themselves, instead represent all alignments. IMO if the DPs were evil they would want the Dark Lords on the Prime, back in their respective lands, wreakign havoc. Instead they have been judged by higher powers and removed from the prime to be trapped within the DoD. Mortals of suspect morality are sent their as fodder for the DLs. There, they can find redemption or damnation by their actions in RL. Hope for redemption is also offered to the DLs as well. Also, I had the Old Ones of Mystara being the Dark Powers. I also once had the immortal Arik be imprisoned there, the entire DoD beign a creation of his mind. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 10:48:13 -0700 From: Joe Kelly Subject: Has anyone ever... Done a MULTIPLE sect campaign? Such as in The Ebon Triads, followers of The Yellow Sign and say The = Scarlett Brotherhood in one campaign? How do the groups interact with each = other? Do they get in each others way? How do you as GMs handle it? I've never done a multiple cult scenario, not sure how it would work. = Anyone with an experience like this? Joe Kelly Office Services Clerk DAVIS & COMPANY LLP Suite 2800, Park Place 666 Burrard Street, Vancouver, B.C. V6C 2Z7 Phone 604.643.6365 This e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and do not copy, use or disclose it. Please advise us if you do not want to receive unencrypted e-mails. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 22:41:33 -0300 From: Steve Carter Subject: Re: Has anyone ever... Yes. It wasn't Mystara, it wasn't even fantasy. It was post-apocalypse, giant killer robots, aliens - you probably know the game-that-should-not-be-named. There were four cults, six espionage agencies of six different nations, inter-dimensional bounty hunters, agents from four inter-galactic empires, space knights, two different types of genocidal robots (and a few others), the phone cops, a fleet of space refugees, a PC haunted by the ghost of his lover, a PC who used to be a phone cop, a Discordian PC, a PC recovering from drug addiction, a scarecrow posing as a human (the spirit bound to the straw body was human but he didn't know it yet) and four other PCs... And the group loved it. But I don't know what you mean about how to handle it. The whole point of it was to turn what would have been a sci-fi orc-bash-fest into something the players had to think about. Every town they went to, every planet they hopped, everyone they spoke to could be one of _them_, or they could wind up a dead innocent. Frequently the shadow groups fought each other and the PCs after following the same clues or killing the clues and leaving the bodies. Maybe I'll rethink this and say more later. Sleep now. Joe Kelly wrote: > Done a MULTIPLE sect campaign? > > Such as in The Ebon Triads, followers of The Yellow Sign and say The Scarlett Brotherhood in one campaign? How do the groups interact with each other? Do they get in each others way? How do you as GMs handle it? > I've never done a multiple cult scenario, not sure how it would work. Anyone with an experience like this? > > Joe Kelly > Office Services Clerk > DAVIS & COMPANY LLP > Suite 2800, Park Place > 666 Burrard Street, > Vancouver, B.C. > V6C 2Z7 > Phone 604.643.6365 > > > This e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and may be privileged. > If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately by > return e-mail, delete this e-mail and do not copy, use or disclose it. > Please advise us if you do not want to receive unencrypted e-mails. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.pandius.com To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of MYSTARA-L Digest - 20 Apr 2006 to 21 Apr 2006 (#2006-75) ***************************************************************