mystara-digest Wednesday, 9 October 1996 Volume 01 : Number 253
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Andre Cavalcanti Rocha Martins {S <acrmarti@fma1.if.usp.br>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 18:45:15 -0200 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystaraspace
On Tue, 8 Oct 1996, Daniel Boese wrote:
> > Has anything official been printed about Mystara in spelljammer terms?
> > Beyond the planet and its two moons, I haven't found anything else
> > definitive.
>
> I tend to use 2 sources.. the list of planets given in the gold Immortals
> set, and the adventure module X7(?) The Tree of Life, which has a starmap
> showing some of the planets' names.
Are the two lists identical? I have The Tree of Life, but I would like to
know if there is anything extra in the gold Immortals set.
Andre Martins
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 14:10:48 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Gombar and Suma'a
On Tue, 8 Oct 1996, Shawn wrote:
> >What happened to the other humanoids on
> >the Immortal's Arm?
>
> I don't really intend on following that one up, that's the problem with
> such migrations. You tend to leave people everywhere. Though for all
> intense purposes they are still there and they don't know that the ogre-kin
> are a bit of a way up west coast.
How about the Sylvan Realm? Have you decided whether the ogre-kin have
any contact with them, or is that area a bit too far north of
Gombar/Suma'a for the ogre-kin to have explored yet?
Perhaps the elves in the SR could be a distant trading partner- or at
lest they were, up until Moorkroft took over...?
------------------------------
From: Robert Kaelin <kaelin@natural.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 16:44:03 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bargle the Infamous
>On Sun, 6 Oct 1996 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote:
>
>> How is this for an idea -- Bargle is now up to level 30 from
>experienced
>> gained murdering various wizard adventurers during and after
>"Wrath".
>> Now he is seeking Immortality in the Sphere of Entropy by trying to
>
>> arrange for all of the "evil" leaders of the world to make war on
>all the
>> "good" people at the same time --
>
>Really? Just boost him to 30th level assumeing he killed wizards?
Well ya, did your DM license to do whatever you want get revoked or something?
>Why would he be looking for Immortality?
Um, for the power to outright crush anyone stupid enough to oppose him?
>Why in Entropy?
Because he's evil? (CE according to the PWA III)
>and what
>evil leaders in the world?
Well, I'll grant you that that's subjective. But just about any of them.
>Bargle is most likely regrouping,
>somewhere away from Karameikos dissappearing during the WotI. All he
>wanted was to assassinate King Stefan. He holds no connections to
>Entropy, or Immortals for that matter. He also has no true allies
>since backstabbing Ludwig during the fall of the Black Eagle Barony.
>Just because he is evil doesn't mean he wants to create huge good vs
>evil wars that span the globe. IMHO if anyone evil encountered him,
>they would just want his Staff of Magi. Who can trust Bargle to make
>an alliance with him, especially after what has happened recently?
Ya, who'd want to deal with a powerful wizard offering his services as an
advisor anyway. What are they good for? Who says they even have to know
it is Bargle? Who outside of Karameikos has even heard of him anyway?
(Aside from Ludwig now)
And what do you mean "Just because he's evil doesn't mean he wants to
create a huge good vs. evil war spanning the globe." It's a plot idea, has
Bargle been telling you differently?
You're selling him way short. We like him and we want to see him kick a
little ass. So sue us. :-)
>> wizards in the world should go up, as they will have "Lord Bargle"
>as
>> a patron to emulate.
>
>Why would evil wizards rise in numbers??
Because he'd be sponsoring them. (Are these questions really that tough?)
>Immortality is not that easy
>to take. You can't assume he killed some unknown wizards for no
>reason, and will reach Immortality for apparently no reason other
>than starting a war.
Well
a) sure you can. Assume away.
b) Bargle's good at gaining power by taking it form others. With mages
dying out left and right while Glantri and Alphatia nuke one another
wouldn't there be a LOT of abandonded mages towers, secret caches, and
other wizards possessions laying about. (If one is talented enough to find
them, of course. And Bargle is no slouch.) Maybe he spent the entire WotI
scrying and watching for mage battles, noting which participants fall in
the fight, find out where they live and then teleport to their towers with
about 50 dispel magics on scrolls for the latent defences around the tower
and do a litte "house cleaning". OK, it's a stretch to say that would make
him 30th, but it could make him REALLY impressive.
c) What do you mean "for no other reason then starting a war?" If Bargle
manages to worm his way into positions of advisor-hood for, let's say a
dozen, leaders of the world (Probably all under different disguises and
illusions) and then proceeds to pit them against one another like nothing
more then pawns in some giant chess match, slaying millions and basically
turning Mystara upside down for a few decades, No Immortal of Entropy would
find that even mildly entertaining? Boy, you must have some pretty evil
guys in your campaing if that's nothing. :-) I mean Nyx gained
immortality by creating a new version of undead, any arch-mage necromancer
could do that.
>No offense, but i just don't know where you're coming from on this . .
But don't let that stop you, just embrace it. (Great idea btw whoever
founded it.) :-)
- -Bob
------------------------------
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 17:52:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] World Games
Fabrizio Paoli pontificated:
>
> My idea is to make a standard schedule of events for the World Games.
> I'll start with the first Games in Selenica, then each year something new
> events may be added (e.g. hardball in Mirros) and other events can be
> deleted (e.g. swimming and sailing in Ylaruam).
Does anyone else felt that holding the World Games once per year is
a bit too often. Consider the difficulty of travel, the amount of
organization required, the lack of wealth of general population, etc.
Once per year seems to be a bit too much. There are a reason that
Olympic is held only once every 4 years. I think the World Game
should probably held at most once every 2 years. Just IMO, of
course.
Something funny just cross my head. To make sure none of the
atheletes cheats, future World Games could be held during the
Day of Dread ... Especially after a few years that people are
more used to the Day of Dread. Of course, then they have to
find some place warm to hold the games.
- --
Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering
Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu
(1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu
(2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept.
Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely
irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur.
------------------------------
From: s9406058@student.anu.edu.au (Shawn)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 10:53:17 +0900
Subject: [Mystara] Re: Gombar and Suma'a
>>>Have Texeirans or Vilaverdans
>>>ever had any contact with them?
>>
>>No. Just like the Suma'ans and Gombarians haven't ventured through the
>>Straight of Izonda neither have the Texeirans or Vilaverdans. Though this
>>lack of contact will change in AC 1014 as noted in the last entry of my
>>history.
>
>There might be a permanent weather problem at the straits, like Cape Horn.
>This would have hampered attempts from both sides to sail through, until
>someone charted a passage -- a dangerous passage at that.
>
>Bruce Heard
Hmmm, this seems to create a problem. The ogres seemed to migrate southwards
across the straights with no problem the first time around - and that's not
just me talking, that's the HW migration map.
Shawn Stanley
I am a QHQGMEEEBBGAU Mystaran
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/index.html
------------------------------
From: Estlor <estlor@geocities.com>
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 21:11:29 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bargle the Infamous
<snip>
Boy, the talk of my favorite reaccurring villan inspires me...lessee,
the history of Bargle (feel free to add on from where I leave off).
Bargle first really appears in the (A)D&D world in the Basic (red box)
set, but his past is quite interesting.
He grew up on the streets in a gang of toughs (having been born poor in
Mirros [then Spectularum?]). At roughly 14 he fought and killed an
apprentice mage, and helped himself to the belongings. From them he
found a joy of magic, and, being wanted by the city guard, took off to
the countryside posing as an earnest and upstanding student of magic.
Bargle went about collecting all manners of magic from various wizards,
and soon began using his magic for robbing innocent people, terrorizing
them, and killing them. Naturally, he ended up in the Black Eagle
Barony.
Von Hendriks gave him an important job: Go to a ruined castle near
Threshold and search for a supposed Duchal Mint there (actually, it did
exist, but he never found it!!). Here Bargle appears in the
introduction adventure to the OD&D game, as a humble fighter stumbles
upon him and loses his newfound clerical friend (her name was Aleena in
the adventure, but perhaps Arlenya was more appropriate because Aleena
became important with the release of the GAZ on Karameikos). Bargle
fled the scene, only to pop up again in the adventure in the DM book
from that set.
Next TSR info on Bargle that I know of is his fleeing the service of Von
Hendrik when a horde of Hin came a'knockin'. That made Ludwig angry at
him, and he hoofed it off to King Nicodemous' (bad spelling?) service.
There he stayed for a short while until Broderick came to conquer, when
Bargle decided to flee again, and where he went can only be supposed
(according to Joshuan Gallidox, he is thought to be somewhere near
Threshold once again).
Estlor
He who has done to much studying of the 17th level mage.
------------------------------
From: Jason Zavoda <nemesis@ssnet.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 22:43:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mystara] Fluff NDT 7
From Module B10 Nights Dark Terror
By Jim Bambra, Graeme Morris & Phil Gallagher
I've been busy with work the last week and a half and this is
the first chance that i've had to work on the story. I would like to hear
any comments that you have on the story and whether I should keep sending
it out over the list. I know that for myself I'm having a lot of fun
writing it and will keep at it even if only to please myself but I'd like
to know what other people think.
Thanks
Jason Zavoda
Smoke rose from dozens of small fires still smouldering in the
ruins of the small house. Nothing was left standing, the roof and even the
walls were consumed in the blaze. The wooden floor had caved in at the
back of the house where a small root cellar had been.
Captain Kalanos, supported by Istvan and Horvos two of his crew,
stood on the dock. A tear rolled down his face,his eyes were irritated by
the smoke he would say later, but standing there in front of the ruins of
Mishas small house he had nothing to say. Pulled back from death by the
healing power of the red haired priest, he was still weak, and the canvas
wrapped bodies of most of his crew hurt him more than his own still grave
wounds.
"Captain " a musical voice spoke up. "Captain there is nothing
here."
Telek came from around the side of the smouldering cabin. His
longbow in his hands and a large quiver of arrows slung over his shoulder.
"The raiders who attacked us, they or ones like them were here."
He raised his left hand. In it he held an arrow, half burnt away, its
feathered half surviving the blaze. "The bowmen who attacked us, they used
arrows such as these."
"Misha," The Captain croaked out. "did you find a woman or signs
of her."
"No sign, perhaps she escaped." But Teleks voice lacked
conviction.
"yes,...yes,perhaps"Kalanos said quietly.
"If they attacked Misha, and set an ambush for us, then what of
Sukiskyn! My Uncles holding..." said Vlad. He had come from the boat.
Since the attack he had withdrawn from the rest of the company and stood
at the aft rail looking into the river."We must go to them."
Vlad shed his lethargy like a cloak. He had hopped from the rail
to the jetty and had half run to where the Captain and Telek were
standing.
A wildness had come back upom him and he gestured toward the
south east violently. "They've taken the Ferry, we must take the boat down
the Syereb, we must leave now, it may be to late, my Uncle, my family..."
Vlad turned toward the River and stared out across the water at
the forest, then whirled back,"Damnit why are you just standing there, we
must leave now, it may be too late, its too late, we..."
A small hand pulled at Vlads sleeve and he whirled around once
again.
Cat looked up into Vlads wild eyes with mute appeal. He said
nothing but let her lead him back to the boat.
"Captain, Vlad is right we must get to his Uncles or we must
turn back." Telek said.
The Captain shook his head. "I do not wish to turn back, but we
cannot proceed. There is no longer crew enough to go upriver. You and your
companions are sturdy fighters but even the short row from the ambush to
here has shown me that you are not familiar with watercraft. Upriver we
would come to the Ilyakana lumber camp, I have friends there and I want to
warn them, if Vlad is not right and we are not too late, but do not ask me
to try. "
"Captain, I know the mind of my companions. We will proceed,
though we have no boat for the Syereb we can take the path from the
riverbank where the Ferry would have let us off. But for you and your men
I say, return to Kelvin. Raise an alarm, we will try to warn those at the
Lumber camp."
Kalanos bows his head. When he raises it again and looks into the
eyes of the young elf his own eyes are clear and determined though rimmed
with red. "When you do reach Ilyakana ask for Gregor and tell him, tell
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him..."
"I will tell him that you made it possible for my companions and
myself to proceed, and I will tell him what befell us on the river."
* * * *
No one waved as the riverboat cast off and flowed with the current
down the river toward Kelvin. All eyes except for Vlads were on the
retreating boat.
The six of them stood on the edge of the Dymark forest. A wide
pathway lay between the trees and under their boughs. The afternoon sun
was slanting toward evening as the boat disappeared down the river,
a sigh escaped from several lips of the onlookers and they bent down to
pick up the small travel packs that they would be taking with them.
Vlad turned and with restraint gave them an imploring look.
"We have what would be a halfdays march ahead of us,"He said "I
know that we must hurry, I feel the danger that my family is in,
please."
Telek turned and from the side faced them all. "We must leave our
packs here by the path and only take what we must. If we move quickly and
do not we may cut down our time by a third or perhaps more, and we must
either carry our small companions or abandon them."
"Hey," spoke up Mouse. "Pointy ears, i'm to old to be a sack of
potatoes and your not leaving me behind."
"Mouse I admire your spirit, but not your wisdom"Telek said
smiling "you and cat would have to run to match our strides. Though you
are swift we are leagues away from Sukisyn. And you have an admirable
mount, red and shaggy though he may be."
"What!" shouted Red.
end part 7
------------------------------
From: TSRBruce@aol.com
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 23:10:33 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Gombar and Suma'a
In a message dated 96-10-08 22:46:27 EDT, you write:
<< Hmmm, this seems to create a problem. The ogres seemed to migrate
southwards
across the straights with no problem the first time around - and that's not
just me talking, that's the HW migration map. >>
The navigation southward still isn't a problem per se. If Gombar and Suma'a
are on the western coast of the Arm of the Immortals, they can stay clear of
the foul area of the strait, circling it outward a bit further to the west.
Of course, nothing prevents our Texeirans and Vilaverdans from doing the same
the same thing, and reach the Davania from the eastern side. Either cultures
could build new ships on the other sides provided they settled the area long
enough for that (a bit like America back when the Panama Canal did not exist
and no one had yet doubled Cape Horn. Either way -- don't take the above as
gospel, this was only a suggestion.
Bruce Heard
------------------------------
From: Robert Kaelin <kaelin@natural.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 21:02:50 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] World Games
>Something funny just cross my head. To make sure none of the
>atheletes cheats, future World Games could be held during the
>Day of Dread ... Especially after a few years that people are
>more used to the Day of Dread. Of course, then they have to
>find some place warm to hold the games.
Interesting idea, but I have 3 reasons against it.
1) Glantri wouldn't stand for this. "So you want our athelets to go to a
foreign land and then hang out in a big crowd the one day of the year none
of our magics work?" They have better things to do that day. (Like
worrying about experiments being ruined, monsters/experiments they had
penned in magical confines running wild, and the occaisonal populace
storming a mage's tower they don't like.)
2) Clerical magic doesn't work either, athelets who drop form exhaustion,
break bones or have other accidents are in SERIOUS trouble. Some would
even call it cruel to make them perform under those conditions. Many
atheletes wouldn't take the risk.
3) The World Games probably take much longer a day anyway.
I do agree they should be held more infrequently then once every year
though. There just aren't that many countries competing.
- ----------------------------------------------------------
Bob Kaelin Natural Intelligence, Inc.
E-mail: Kaelin@natural.com 725 Concord Ave.
Phone: (617) 876-7680 x1253 Cambridge, Ma. 02138
WWW:<http://www.natural.com> USA
- ----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 21:18:57 -0400 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystaraspace
> > > Has anything official been printed about Mystara in spelljammer terms?
> > > Beyond the planet and its two moons, I haven't found anything else
> > > definitive.
> > I tend to use 2 sources.. the list of planets given in the gold Immortals
> > set, and the adventure module X7(?) The Tree of Life, which has a starmap
> > showing some of the planets' names.
> Are the two lists identical? I have The Tree of Life, but I would like to
> know if there is anything extra in the gold Immortals set.
No, the lists are emphatically not identical - in the Immortals set, we
have the Sun, Venus, Earth, Mars, Damocles (in the asteroid belt's orbit),
Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and Charon (in the Bode orbit past
Pluto's) (with Mercury, the asteroids, Pluto, and Jupiter's retrograde
moons missing - Damocles is going to explode in the future, various pieces
of it becoming them).
In my own games, I use this list to place the planets, but use the names
from X7 for Ven., Mars, Jup., Sat., and Ura.. I call Nep. "Uther", after
the ancient Blackmoor king because.. well, I don't know why. :)
If anybody has a different Mystaraspace, official or not, now's the time
to share it.. :)
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 02:04:28 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bargle the Infamous
In a message dated 96-10-08 15:48:39 EDT, MRRU13B@prodigy.com (MR TIMOTHY M
DI BONA) writes:
<< You can't assume he killed some unknown wizards for no
reason, and will reach Immortality for apparently no reason other
than starting a war.
No offense, but i just don't know where you're coming from on this . .
. . . >>
It actually fits in quite well with Bargle's methods from the beginning of
his
career -- he has been killing wizards and stealing their spellbooks since
before he became a wizard himself. Now that he is of higher level, he
can take out more powerful wizards, especially during the chaos of the
"Wrath" wars.
Also, like his "friend" Baron Ludwig, Bargle is a stereotypical villain -- he
seems to enjoy being nasty with little provocation, and he probably twirls
his mustache a lot as he carries out various nefarious schemes. All it would
take is a slight increase in power for him to decide to become the most evil
of all evil wizards -- and if he has any hint as to what Immortality is
about,
he would certainly seek out a sponsor in the Sphere of Entropy, which is
the Sphere most likely to support such a goal. After all, how better to
serve
Entropy than by spreading war, death, destruction, and general nastiness?
------------------------------
From: r.hammer2@juno.com (Robert C Hammer)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 00:06:47 PST
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystaraspace
On Tue, 8 Oct 1996 12:28:33 -0400 (EST) Daniel Boese
<dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca> writes:
>> Has anything official been printed about Mystara in spelljammer
>terms?
>> Beyond the planet and its two moons, I haven't found anything else
>> definitive.
>
> I tend to use 2 sources.. the list of planets given in the gold
>Immortals
>set, and the adventure module X7(?) The Tree of Life, which has a
>starmap
>showing some of the planets' names.
>
>--
>Daniel Boese
>dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
>
>
What info is included in those sources? Unfortunatly I don't have
either.
Robert
------------------------------
From: "Oystein H. Lund" <kj160@hp825.lhg.hib.no>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 11:53:25 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Gombar and Suma'a
On Tue, 8 Oct 1996 TSRBruce@aol.com wrote:
> raw fish, but still). Here's a silly idea: what if the surface of their
> ships' hulls was sculpted in such a way that waves crashing on their ships'
> bows would actually translate into a motive force. In this case, they'd need
> fewer rowers and sails, since natural water movement would be a part of their
> ships' propulsion. This well-guarded secret (like ancient Roman's greek-fire
> in real history) would then allow more innovative ship designs.
>
> Bruce Heard
> ... who still lives in fantasy!
Not so sily, really, but what you're looking for is the addition of an
angled plane to the ship's keel - angled about 30-45 degrees from the
plane of the hull, like so:
\________________/ <- boat
/ / <- Vanes
This is one of the latest innovations in fuel-saving measures to be
developed by Norwegian ship's constructors - damn things have to be build
in titanium/osmium steel tho', but they help in translating the vertical
movement due to wave-action into motive force. In the current trials,
this setup provides a 30% saving on fuel consumption on the ships it's
mounted on, and that's at a calculated low level of efficiency. It's
theoretically possible to lower fuel consumption by as much as 60% with
this system, although it will probably not be cost-effective due to
increases of transportation times.
But with magical engineering, and Forecefield-stiffened vanes, I'm
certain the system could be practical for Mystarans as well ;9
Although to be fair, it will probably be the Minrothans who come up
with this first. Will prolly boost the speed of their sailing vessels by
20-30 % instead of saving fuel...
It's not exactly shaping the hull - that wouldn't work unless you're
designing a submarine or a semi-submersible, but it's along the same
lines ;)
_______________________________________________________________________
| Oeystein H. Lund ,kj160@hp825.lhg.hib.no |
| "Who are we, why are we here ?" |
| - Forget the questions, someone gimme another beer. |
| "What's the meaning of life, what's the meaning of it all ?" |
| -You gotta learn to dance, before they make you crawl. |
|_____________________________________________________________________|
------------------------------
From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 10:10:10 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bargle the Infamous
In a message dated 96-10-08 19:40:41 EDT, you write:
<< >No offense, but i just don't know where you're coming from on this . .
But don't let that stop you, just embrace it. (Great idea btw whoever
founded it.) :-)
-Bob >>
is this a joke?
in my campaign there is a simple rule
there has to be reasons for things to happen
people dont instantly attain 30th level
reaching immortality isnt a common thing
if bargle can reach immortality by taking abandoned wizard towers etc
why couldnt the master of hule or barimoor do it
anyone could attain immortality
i think it ruins the point of immortality by granting it so easily
how many centuries has Barimoor been working for it?
>>Why would he be looking for Immortality?
>Um, for the power to outright crush anyone stupid enough to oppose him?
i think you need a better reason than this
if youre looking for a character 30th level
throughly evil
trying to reach immortality in the sphere of entropy
with a bunch of followers
who wont hesitate to start a war
why dont you use the Master of Hule or Barimoor
on Mystara you can find anything
thats why its so wonderful
theyve already created this character
except its Hule, Barimoor, McGregor etc... not Bargle
------------------------------
From: Herve MUSSEAU <musseauh@esiee.fr>
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 15:34:56 +0200
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alfheim Invasion Complete Timeline (long)
Andre Cavalcanti Rocha Martins {S wrote:
>
> <.... snipped (or would someone want to see the huge Fabrizio's post
> twice?)>
>
> Great job! And I must say it gave me a few extra ideas about the future
> war I am planning. First, the elves left their trees in Darokin, since it
> was the safer place. They certainly intend to have them back and this can
> be nothing but a provisory solution. So they will try to come back.
>
> Atzanteotl will soon have a country under his command, Aengmor. He
> certainly knew what he was doing and he wouldn't miss the chance to make
> that spell not really kill the trees, but transform them in new evil
> beings, as well as many of the forest animals that eat from them. We must
> still work on it, but I am sure he would do it. So, when his followers try
> to take Aengmor from the shamans, they will have an ace in the sleeve: the
> forest will relive and fight with them. A new twisted, maybe undead (Nyx
> would have loved to help him in this one), forest.
>
> And this work perfectly with the DDC infiltration. Just imagine Hel
> haven't been too successful on it until Alfheim invasion. She has a few
> agents, but they are not in the higher positions. The DDC is desperate to
> negotiate with this new treaty when two of their junior diplomats manage
> to talk with the invading army. Hel has asked this from Rafiel as a
> personal favor, she would help him to make peace between the SE and
> Darokin in the shadow elves would negotiate innitially through her agents.
> Rafiel had to keep his disguise and agreed, so two promissing but unknown
> diplomats are raised to glory as they negotiate a favorable peace treaty.
>
> So what do you think? Have everyone hated my previous ideas about the war
> so much that I got no answers?
>
> Andre Martins
Hey Andre, we really like you because you're so creative and want so
much a war :)
Well, if that works for your campaign, just do it--the ideas seem fine
(along with your other posts).
However, this is not the way events will turn out in Michael's timeline
(in fact, Aengmor will not become his). But your idea of the forest
coming back to life (or unlife:) to help Atzanteotl's minions is really
good in the case of a war such as the one you promote...
- --
Herve Musseau
Primary Email: musseauh@esiee.fr
Secondary Email: herve@hotmail.com
Homepage: http://www.esiee.fr/~musseauh
I'm a QSQWBEEEGGNFR Mystaran
------------------------------
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mystara-digest Wednesday, 9 October 1996 Volume 01 : Number 254
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From: Herve MUSSEAU <musseauh@esiee.fr>
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 15:05:25 +0200
Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Alfheim War
Andre Cavalcanti Rocha Martins {S wrote:
>
> On Wed, 25 Sep 1996, Herve MUSSEAU wrote:
>
> > > First, let me address the problem of an elven-ylari alliance.
>
> Fabrizio has convinced me on that one. I just didn't realize the ylari
> desert was caused by the elfish rain spells. That makes everything
> different and the alliance impossible. However, we should start planning
> what happens now in Ylaruam. With no more rains in Canolbarth, soon we
> won't have a desert there anymore. It would be good if someone would
> propose what changes this will make in the country, as well as in the
> whole eastern Brun climmate.
You're right, the destruction of the Canolbarth forest should bring
climatic changes in the KW. And not only in Ylaruam, I guess. Any ideas?
> > Ilsundal wants to save his ToL, sure. But he is not warlike, and neither
> > are the AE. If he really wanted to save them as you say, he would visit
> > his clerics in exile in incorporeal form and instruct them to lead the
> > AE to a war. He certainly wouldn't let the Alfheim Avengers do it alone
> > (or even with non-elf allies). If the older elves in Karameikos and
> > Wendar are not warlike and have longer-ranging plans, I can see how it
> > is Ilsundal's will that they wait.
>
> Or not. Immortals tend to be subtle when they can and it is always better
> to have your enemy think you want peace when you are preparing for a war.
> So the Alfheim Avengers would just appear to be an independent group
> trying to stop the SE untill it is too late for them. What if his plans
> included the Alfheim Avengers and the older clerics, that will be ordered
> to prepare for war on a later date.
This is always possible. But as elves, the AE (and Ilsundal) tend to
have long-term plans, not a short-term plan of war (IMO).
Whatever his plans, Ilsundal definetly has plans. I just don't agree
that they include war at this point.
> > Moreover, there are probably very few, if any, ToL remaining in the
> > Canolbarth after the AE fled. Fabrizio is writing a detailed timeline of
> > the SE invaion of Alfheim, ask him for a copy of the pre-version if you
> > want to know more.
>
> That can certainly make a difference. But I remember someone (maybe
> Fabrizio himself) saying Ilsundal only took the Immortality Path to better
> protect his beloved Trees. Unfortunatelly, I don't have the Alfheim
To protect his people. And he created the ToL, who are his avatars, to
help them (according to Gaz5, or to what I remember from it).
> gazeteer, so I can not check this one. But if that is true, Ilsundal
> certainly sees his Trees as his sons and loves them deeply. A loving
> father would start a war to save two or three of his sons. Moreover, all
Sure, especially if they're avatars. But as I said, there may be other
ways than war (according to Brizio's timeline, there are only 2 ToL
remaining in Alfheim, and they are hidden and disguised as dead trees).
> patrons of nature and forest races are certainly outraged by the
> destruction of Canolbarth and many of them will demand revenge. Alfheim
> was not home to just the elves and all the other races would support
> retaking it. Ilsundal will certainly have several friends and allies
> desiring this war: "We must stop and destroy this cursed %$#%$# elves.
> With this power of them, no forest in Mystara is safe. The world is doomed
> to transform into that nightmarish landscape unless we act quickly and
> destroy all the knowledge of that balsfemous spell." How many Immortals
> would not follow this line of thought once someone start arguing along
> this lines? I believe just too many ones, so that war would be
> unavoidable. And if nobody remebers the shadow elves can use their spell
> on ANY forest in the world, some nice and caring entropic fellow will
> certainly do it.
I agree 100% with you that all Immortals of nature are worried about
what the SE can do to all forests in the world. But they don't
especially want to retake that particular piece of land, since it is now
dead. However, they will probably try their best to prevent the SE from
using such a knowledge again (if possible destroying the knowledge
alltogether). But they don't need a war to do this, there are more
subtle ways of handling this.
> So Ylaruam will side with the SE instead. That makes things a little
> different, but that will not stop this war, in my opinion.
>
> > Good job, good idea.
> > However, in Michael's draft timeline, the Kin use the World Games of
> > Ylaruam in 1014 to and the fact that (unbelievers, women, half-naked
> > athletes, wizards) attend to the games to regain the power in Ylaruam
> > (using the Ylari people's disgust of the Preceptors laziness on such
> > holy matters).
> > In that case, you should reverse your idea, and say that the Kin
> > recognize the scroll as a holy artifact to be obeyed, and declare a holy
> > war despite the efforts of the Preceptors to say that war is useless and
> > evil.
>
> As I said above, if the rains over Alfheim are the responsible fot the
> desert, the whole idea sinks. Maybe that scroll will make the Kin ally
> with the SE, however.
>
> > Great idea. Sure, Barimoor is upset by the presence of the SE.
>
> Barimor will still be upset, but now he has to work against Al-Kalim's
> desires.
>
> > I like your ideas about Darokin and the DDC, although I'm not sure I
> > want the DDC so much infiltrated by Hel's agents IMC. It fits well with
> > what you plan to do (ie, Alfhaim counterinvasion), however.
>
> How much the DDC would be infiltrated will really depend on each DM.
> However, a few good agents in key points might do the same job just as
> easily as a completely infiltrated Corp. And this infiltration might give
> the pcs lots of problems. I believe there is ptential for several
> adventures centering this idea.
>
> > I don't believe Thaytis would lend its armies, all the more if it isn't
> > interested in the war and doesn't expect any spoils of war for itself.
> > IMO Thyatis just does nothing but watch. If any country is weakened
> > enough by such a war, it would be an easy prey for the empire in
> > rebuilding (Thaytis has nothing against extending to the west or north).
>
> I must have expressed myself poorly. All I meant is that Thyatis might
> lend some token troops, just to make some nations feel more confident with
> its support and the war more likely. When the conflict begins, they will
> say they need all the troops they have to face their new enemy (Thotia,
> NACE, hostiles tribes near the Hinterlands, maybe Ierendi), it doesn't
> matter they will not be in a real war. They just want to weaken the other
> nations so that they can rebuild their empire and invade them one day,
> eventually. Nobody will ever make me believe Thyatis doesn't want to
> conquer the whole world, given the chance.
Hmm so why say they want to take part in the war in the first place? If
they are interested in that war but don't want to participate they can
use diplomacy/spying to start the war, but they really don't need to get
military involved at all.
And, yse, this is true that they will need their troops soon in other
areas.. NACE and Hinterlands (where they will soon stumble upon the
Emerondians and possibly upon the evil tribes of eastern Davania).
> > Alfheim Avengers rescuing dwarves and being received by Everast? Are you
> > kidding there?
> > And, dwarves are not ready for yet another war, even if they wanted.
> > They already have suffered from a civil war and a two-stage war in
> > Oenkmar. Sure, they hate the SE, and they want a revenge, but they just
> > are too exhausted to do it right away.
>
> Not really. Let's examine dwarven way of thinking. Until now, whenever
> someone treatened them very seriously, they would just hide in their caves
> and wait the danger to be over. Their caves have always meant a safe and
> perfect haven, a place where they could live almost eternally, regardless
> of what happened in the surface. They were confident on their ability to
> resist any foe due to their underground cities. Now, a group of elves
> appear and all the things they have taken for granted for generations, as
> their virtually undestructible underground cities, are no longer what they
> appeared to be. Sure, some dwarves will pretend nothing is happening, so
> they won't have to change their way of live. But most of them will be just
> too scared they will do anything to destroy these "evil" creatures. Even
> allying with elves. And if Kagyar and Ilsundal has already talked about
> this war (a very probable event), the dwarven Immortal might have already
> contacted Everast instructing him to try to convince his people AE should
> be accepted as allies. They don't have to like or trust each other, just
> to fight together against their comon enemy.
Your arguments are appealing. But I still think the dwarves are just
unlikely to go to war AGAIN, at least not now. But in a few years...
> > Ok, calm down with Atzanteotl and Hel. They have already suffered from a
> > major stroke at the end of WotI abd their actions are being watched by
> > the hierarchs. They can't stand to lose another war, or even be caught
> > acting directly on the Prime.
>
> No Immortal can stand to be caught acting directly on the Prime. But I
> must disagree with you in this point. Yes, they have suffered a major
> stroke, but that is precisely the reason they would start acting
> immediatelly, counterplotting. They want their lost power back just too
> much. Certainly, they will be more careful. But what they are planning now
> is just promoting war between two groups of non-followers. If they won't
> involve their own followers directly, they have not much to lose. And if
> the Rafiel's clerics are defeated, it will be Atzanteotl's turn to cause a
> major stroke against Rafiel.
ok, they want to get their power back. But they also need to be very
cautious, since they are carefully watched by other Immortals. And they
will probably get involved only if there is no risk.
BTW: Atzanteotl doesn't feel like Rafiel made him suffer from a major
stroke, in fact he believes that Rafiel is an ally (see Fabrizio's
timeline). The both of them cooperated during WotI, and he still doesn't
suspect that Rafiel is good and was a double agent for Rad.
> > > These group was the same that has shot one of the Treekeepers during
> > > the peace meetings in Rafieltown, last year (sorry, I forgot who made
> > > that timeline). They are trying hard to start this war, even against
> > > the orders of the elder elves who are working in another
> > > solution. They are able to negotiate a treaty with Rockhome. Elves and
> > > dwarves will not fight in the same army, but they will coordinate
> > > their efforts.
> > Sure, they are trying hard, but negociate a treaty? With the dwarves?
> > They are a group of young elves (think of them as a band of anarchist
> > teenagers, not CIA agents).
>
> But if they ARE working under Ilsundal's orders, as I said above, they
> would have this power. Just as they are negotiating this treaty, Ilsundal
> visits a few older clerics and tells them what is happening.
>
> > > Meanwhile, Ilsundal convinces many nature-loving immortals something
> > > must be done to stop this craziness. Djaea, Ordana and others start
> > > instructing their followers to prepare for war...
> >
> > As with AE/Ilsundal, those are peaceful peoples/Immortals. They just
> > won't do it. Harass the SE, ok, but not make an all-out war with them.
>
> See my discussion about them above. The possibility that the shadow elves
> would use their spell again in other forest would turn all these
> peace-loving Immortals in war-promoting ones.
>
> > I agree that Karameikos would not join the war, but not for the reason
> > you give. They won't participate because the AE that live here they
> > consult say they shouldn't (and add that there shouldn't be a war at
> > all).
> > I know there is tension between the Traladarans and the Thyatians (Dark
> > Kinght of Karameikos), but certainly not to the point of starting a
> > civil war.
>
> Certainly not if Stefan keeps his troops in the country. I wouldn't be so
> sure about it if most of his troops were sent aboard, unless he can
> convince his nation the SE are a terrible evil and that they must put
> their differences aside to save their lives. At the other hand, Zirchev
> would be preaching exactly this, and this would be a good oportunity to
> really unite the country, if he can do it. I am not sure on this one.
If you really intend to make a war happen in your campaign at this
point, then you should give a role to Zirchev in Karameikos, that's a
great idea.
> > Allies, already? That simply? The politics in Glantri (and among the SE)
> > are not that easy. Some princes might want an alliance, but others not.
> > Glantri has no allies, only friendly nations at best (and ennemies:). If
> > individual princes want to learn more about SE magic, they will do it by
> > theft or any other means, but certainly not through a global alliance.
> > They know better.
>
> Certainly. But some glantrian groups would support SE while the others
> would do nothing against them, except for the Erewan elves. I was not
> talking about a global alliance, and I must confess I would like if people
> would tell me which groups would side with the SE. But many groups would
> start helping the SE, trading some info and the like.
>
> > > As a matter of fact, he was advised by a Dolores' pawn. She and von
> > > Drachenfels were behind this invasion. It was Synn's idea that the
> > > only way Glantri's Parliament would agree to invade the Khanates would
> > > be if they would start a war. The fact that Bramyra would be a natural
> > > target was a bonus to Jaggar plans. Incidentally, this also explains
> > > how Synn was able to "charm" him. Who would think about casting
> > > detection spells on a beautiful woman that is making one old dream
> > > coming true? The end of hostilities between the heldanners and the
> > > ethengarians were part of this plan. Jaggar has personally visited
> > > Freiburg during the war with Alphatia several times and he had several
> > > friends there. He convinced them that ifthe ethengar was to attack
> > > Glantri, he could get his country to retaliate. The heldanners could
> > > break the peace then and attack the Khanates from north, getting the
> > > khan's army in a pincer movement.
> >
> > This isn't exactly what is in the draft timeline, but it goes along
> > quite well with it. In fact, most of it could be used there.
>
> Good. At least we have agreed on something :)
Fortunately enough :)
Hey, I don't want to systematically disagree with you, but you are
promoting a war in Aengmor right now, which I think is too early. So I
present the counteraguments. BTW, I think most people want another big
war, but in 1020 or even a bit later (we could take a poll on this:).
> > > Jaggar knows the truth about Synn in 1015, but he can no longer stop
> > > the khan armies. He will have to worry about his personal revenge
> > > later. If any civil war was about to happen in Glantri, the invasion
> > > reunite the country. In less than one year, the glatrian troops, aided
> > > by the heldanners, should be able to destroy most of the khan's army.
> >
> > On the other hand, here I don't agree. Do you really think it is enough
> > to reunite the princes? I doubt it, power struggle and diverging
> > interests being what they are in Glantri. I would even say that it could
> > precipitate a civil war.
>
> I believe it would make them allies, even if they didn't like it.
> Glantrian princes would have gone to a civil war many decades ago for
> their differences, if they didn't realize they had more to lose with a
> civil war than with "accepting" the other princes. I do think a civil war
> would be likely if the invasion wasn't to occur. But foreign enemies tend
> to make temporary allies of sworn enemies (they can always kill each other
> later when their comon enemy is destroyed).
True. That's why the invasion by Moglai Khan in Micheal's timeline is
likely to help Glantri unite against a common foe. Although this will
only be an uneasy allaince between the princes, as usual.
> > > The Master sends orders for his armies in Sind to attack and take
> > > Akesoli. They must secure their position before crossing Lake
> > > Amsorak. However, he holds the attack untill one month after the
> > > begining of the war, to catch everybody unprepared.
> >
> > The Master? Good idea, but I believe he could have to deal with a
> > liberation war in Sind before (or at the same time? War begins as the
> > Master's armies are out of Sind?).
>
> Well, let's face it. Akesoli position is undefensable. And the Master can
> take it without getting his troops too far away from Sind. So, he might
> wait longer for crossing the lake, but Akesoli is such an easy target he
> wouldn't let it escape him. And if he takes Darokin one piece at a time,
> he might even avoid the war in Sind.
Why not? This is plausible. How many troops does the Master have
stationed in Sind exactly?
> Now let me get prepared for one more round in this fight :)
eheh, not fight, discussion. In fact, it is quite constructive. Even if
I don't agree with your desire for a war now and there, you do have good
ideas that can be used in a more peaceful timeline :)
> Andre Martins
- --
Herve Musseau
Primary Email: musseauh@esiee.fr
Secondary Email: herve@hotmail.com
Homepage: http://www.esiee.fr/~musseauh
I'm a QSQWBEEEGGNFR Mystaran
------------------------------
From: TSRBruce@aol.com
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 11:08:15 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Gombar and Suma'a
In a message dated 96-10-09 09:46:33 EDT, you write:
>Not so sily, really, but what you're looking for is the addition of an
>angled plane to the ship's keel - angled about 30-45 degrees from the
>plane of the hull, (...)
Well, I didn't expect that! Of course, in the case of the Gombarian/Suma'an
navies (or the Miroth navy as you would prefer), it's not exactly *fuel*
that's saved but more simply *energy* (muscle- or wind-based). Thanks for the
technological insight! :)
Bruce Heard
who *thought* he lived in a world of fantasy
------------------------------
From: MRRU13B@prodigy.com (MR TIMOTHY M DI BONA)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 10:51:07, -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bargle the Infamous
>>Really? Just boost him to 30th level assumeing he killed wizards?
>Well ya, did your DM license to do whatever you want get revoked or
something?
No, actually my "DM license" allows me to create feasible plots and
stories for the PCs in my world. It doesn't allow me to dump millions
of experience points on existing NPCs for no apparent reason.
>>Why would he be looking for Immortality?
>Um, for the power to outright crush anyone stupid enough to oppose
him?
This is a foolish statement. Bargle would need hundreds of years to
attain Immortality at best. He doesn't even have a sponsor, and IMO
he hasn't accomplished a feat to gain the attension of Entropic
Immortals. Maybe if he finally suceeded in the killing of King Stefan,
but even then he might not gain the attention.
>>and what
>>evil leaders in the world?
>Well, I'll grant you that that's subjective. But just about any of
them.
Who?
>> Who can trust Bargle to make
>> an alliance with him, especially after what has happened recently?
> Who outside of Karameikos has even heard of him anyway?
>(Aside from Ludwig now)
hmmm. Just about anyone seeing the HUGE reword in the capture of his
live or dead body. Anyone who has done any reasearch on Bargle, knows
he has a Staff of Magi. Anyone interested in that? Bargle IS known
outside of Karameikos.
>And what do you mean "Just because he's evil doesn't mean he wants
to
>create a huge good vs. evil war spanning the globe." It's a plot
idea
Not for his charecter it's not. This isn't Bargle, this is the master
of Hule. He is of high level, attempting to reach Immortality in
Entropy, and has connections with several Immortals from that sphere.
It's a great plot idea, but not for Bargle.
>You're selling him way short. We like him and we want to see him
kick a
>little ass. So sue us. :-)
Bargle has potential, but he isn't powerfull enough yet. He has many
people trying to find and capture/kill him. He himself can't trust
anyone now. He has to lay low until he believes he isn't in immediate
danger anymore.
>> You can't assume he killed some unknown wizards for no
>>reason, and will reach Immortality for apparently no reason other
>>than starting a war.
>Well sure you can. Assume away.
Just assume it? You need to build up a backround for these people.
What if he was questioned and forced to give answers by some PCs? You
as the DM won't even know what to say. You'll have to BS your way out
of it. Hardly a well designed campaign. This is why you can't
"assume" everything. Especially the birth of a new Immortal. This
creates an unbelievable 2-dimensional world with no depth.
<>
b) Bargle's good at gaining power by taking it form others. With
mages
dying out left and right while Glantri and Alphatia nuke one another
wouldn't there be a LOT of abandonded mages towers, secret caches,
and
other wizards possessions laying about. (If one is talented enough
to find
them, of course. And Bargle is no slouch.) Maybe he spent the
entire WotI
scrying and watching for mage battles, noting which participants fall
in
the fight, find out where they live and then teleport to their towers
with
about 50 dispel magics on scrolls for the latent defences around the
tower
and do a litte "house cleaning". OK, it's a stretch to say that
would make
him 30th, but it could make him REALLY impressive.<>
This could happen with a few exceptions. The major Alphation assault
was solely on Glantri City. And that was successfully defended. Sure,
some died, but Bargle would have to beat out some of the best rogues
in Glantri.
Also, no one of grand stature died that had any remnants of their
work left behind. Bargle could maybe have picked up a few things, but
not enough to probably even raise him one level.
><c) What do you mean "for no other reason then starting a war?" If
Bargle
manages to worm his way into positions of advisor-hood for, let's say
From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 13:09:37 1996
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Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 13:49:57 -0500
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To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V1 #254
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a
dozen, leaders of the world (Probably all under different disguises
and
illusions) and then proceeds to pit them against one another like
nothing
more then pawns in some giant chess match, slaying millions and
basically
turning Mystara upside down for a few decades, No Immortal of Entropy
would
find that even mildly entertaining? ><
Okay, now this is interesting, but I really see this under the lines
of an alternate identity of the master of hule. This just doesn't
seem to be Bargle.
<> Boy, you must have some pretty evil
guys in your campaing if that's nothing. :-) <>
Why thank you . . . . I try. :]
It seems like you have put some good thought into this. I do like the
ideas, but just not centered on Bargle. Give Bargle's charecter some
time. Who knows, maybe in a few hundred years he'll be dining with
Thanatos himself. :]
- -tim
------------------------------
From: MRRU13B@prodigy.com (MR TIMOTHY M DI BONA)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 11:03:39, -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bargle the Infamous
<>
All it would take is a slight increase in power for him to decide
to become the most evil
of all evil wizards -- and if he has any hint as to what Immortality
is
about,
he would certainly seek out a sponsor in the Sphere of Entropy, which
is
the Sphere most likely to support such a goal. After all, how better
to
serve
Entropy than by spreading war, death, destruction, and general
nastiness?
<>
I agree that he has the potential to become this in time, but to
boost someone from 17th to 30th level is quite obsurd.
- -tim
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 12:20:51 -0400 (EST)
Subject: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 12
******************* Time of the "Gazetteers" ******************
1000 AC: Minrothad celebrates 150 years of nationhood.
Oran Meditor makes public appearances to stop rumors of his
continued ill health.
In Glantri, the Brotherhood of Free Wolves is pressing
hard for their own Principality under the leadership of Sire
Malachie du Marais, Baron of Morlay.
Werecreatures in the southern waters of Undersea grow
in numbers and strength.
Vestland is a modern nation and a strong, independent
trading partner with the nations of Mystara. Ostland is a
powerful, independent ally of Thyatis, aggressive and
belligerent, barbaric in culture and religious practices.
Soderfjord is a weak alliance of feuding minor jarls,
victimized by giantish clans and Ostland pirates.
Ylaruam is under governance of sultans from Preceptors
faction of Al-Kalim's descendants. Its culture and economy
flourishes.
Shark-kin take up arms against the land dwellers;
devilfish increase their attacks on Undersea; the numbers of
undead and werecreatures in the southern waters grows at an
alarming rate.
Everast XV is on the throne of Rockhome.
Prince Haldemar of Alphatia foils a plot by the Rajah
of Jaibul to add Putnabad to the Rajahstan of Jaibul.
The Immortals begin a conflict that eventually begins
to affect mortals throughout the world.
Aegos becomes the site for an Alphatian project to dig
a pit through Mystara's mantle into the Hollow World. (KW/HW)
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 12:06:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 2
************************ Old Stone Age ************************
***************** The Dawn of the Sentient Races **************
6000 BC: There is no true civilization in the Outer
World. Humans are tribal hunter-gatherers, living mostly in
plains and light forests. They are divided into three great
races: Neathar (light-skinned), Oltec (copper-skinned), and
Tanagoro (black-skinned). Dwarves are barbaric mountain and
foothill dwellers, mostly goatherds. Elves are sheltered,
protected and nurtured by the forest-spirits they worship; they
do not need to work or suffer. There are no monstrous humanoids
on the world to threaten the demihumans. Halflings live in the
rolling hills and forests of the southern continent, some
distance from the elves, whom they respect greatly.
The Hollow World is very sparsely populated. Many
regions are inhabited by giant reptiles which are now extinct
in the Outer World; the only sentient race in the Hollow World
is a species of Neanderthal-like near-human. (HW)
5500 BC: Powerful burrowing monsters created by
Thanatos infiltrate the Hollow World and begin to corrupt the
Brute-Men culture there. (HW)
5300 BC: The Brute-Men tribes begin to fall upon one
another in savage, irrational wars. These wars rage, off and
on, for three centuries. (HW)
******************** The First Civilizations ******************
5000 BC: The childhood of the elves is over; the forest
spirits stop sheltering them, forcing them to leave paradise
and to seek their own futures. The first great elf
civilization, Evergrun, develops on the southern continent in
areas now under the southern icecap. (GAZ5)
The Immortals destroy the corrupt elements of the
Brute-Men culture, and then cast their /Spell of Preservation/
on the Hollow World; now, sentient races places within the
Hollow World will always retain their distincitve
characteristics. (HW)
Far across the galaxy, on another world, a race of
pale-skinned humans called the Alphatians begins to rise to
preeminence and to study mighty magics. (DotE)
4500 BC: Beastmen - reincarnated souls of evil beings -
appear in the upper Borean Valley, a frozen land north of
Blackmoor. These beastmen are wild, chaotic creatures that do
not breed true; whelps may have some or none of the traits of
their parents, may be of different size and appearance. This is
all brought about by the magic of Hel, an Immortal of the
sphere of Entropy, who wants to introduce more confusion,
dismay, and death into the world. (GAZ10)
********************** The Era of Blackmoor *******************
4000 BC: The human Blackmoor civilization begins a meteoric rise
due to its great success in developing powerful sciences and
technologies. It conquers and assimilates all surrounding human tribes
and quickly grows very powerful.
Another human civilization, the Oltecs, begins a more
stately rise toward civilization in lands far to the south of
Blackmoor. Protected by deep forests and sheltering hills, they
do not have any communication with Blackmoor. (GAZ14)
With the situation on the outer world relatively
stable, the Immortals confine themselves to placing a few
human tribes and a few animal species within the Hollow World;
this is a time of comparitive peace there. (HW)
On the Alphatians' world, the Alphatians defeat the
Cypris civilization... and begin to be assimilated by it. (DotE)
3850 BC: A group of warlike, flatland tribes are
colonized by the Oltecs. These tribes fiercely cling to their
distinct heritage in spite of the Oltec conquerors. (GAZ14)
3500 BC: The Blackmoor civilization is flourishing. It
conducts trade and intermittent war with the southern elves, at
the other end of the world. Four clans of elves colonize in the
region near Blackmoor. Both the southern and the colonial elves
embrace Blackmoor's technology. Blackmoor priests demand the
extermination of the "unnatural" beastmen in the Borean Valley,
and promote holy wars to hunt down and destroy those
creatures.
Following a failed military coup, a rift occurs in the
Oltec civilization; the more aggressive Azcan tribes declare
their independence and begin to wage war on the Oltecs.
According to modern Azcan histories, the hated former masters
were overthrown and enslaved. In fact, the Oltecs and Azcans
exist side by side for almost five centuries, alternating war
and commerce, until outside forces literally destroy the world
they know. (GAZ14)
The widespread Neathar race is beginning to undergo
development; the language in individual areas changes rapidly
into very different dialects, and the independent Neathar
tribes no longer recognize a kinship or a common origin among
themselves. (hw)
A large number of Neathar tribes are placed in the
Hollow World so that the original Neathar culture will be
preserved. They are placed to the north of the great
equatorial mountain range, away from the Brute-Men. They
swiftly grow in numbers and spread in all directions through
the northern hemisphere. (HW)
On the Alphatians' world, the Alphatian/Cypris
civilization uses its magical knowledge to begin colonization
and conquest of nearby planets and exploration of the elemental
planes. (DotE)
3400 BC: To avoid the ongoing war in their homeland,
some Oltecs migrate to the Savage Coast, settling the eastern
and central shores. Manscorpions and tortles already live
along the central coast, and aranea and wallara civilizations
flourish on the western end. (RS)
3300 BC: Ka now implements Korotiku's ideas for a
massive center of mortal knowledge in the Hollow World. He
instructs certain very wise beings of all sentient races to
travel to a very secluded mountain valley; there, they are to
interact, to build a great library, to accumulate and exchange
knowledge. This secret library, protected by Ka all through
its history, is to become the Lighthouse. (HW)
3200 BC: The Blackmoor crusades drive the Beastmen
farther north, into the land called Hyperborea; they adapt to
the colder climate and survive.
3100 BC: Aquarendi elves seek the guardianship of
Manwara, an Immortal of the Sea, and enter the warm waters to
begin a new life. (PC3)
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 12:16:34 -0400 (EST)
Subject: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 8
******************** Beginning of Lycanthropy *****************
400 AC: Ostland raiders range south to Thyatis and
north to Norwold. Mainland Northern Reaches tribes are
victimized by the sea raiders and by giantish clans.
The Flaems discover that other, enemy Alphatians are in
possession of the mighty Alphatian empire to the east.
The Traladaran village of Marilenev begins doing more
trade business than fishing and begins slow, gradual growth
from the increasing trade. Thyatian clerics learn the "Song of
King Halav" and commit it to writing for the first time. The
Church of Traladara is founded. (GAZ1)
Rogue Alphatian wizards attempting to develop a
hardier, more powerful Alphatian race create fast-spreading
magical strains of the curses of vampirism and lycanthropy.
401 AC: A two-month epidemic of lycanthropy in Alphatia
results in thousands of werecreatures and dozens of weretypes.
The newly-formed Alphatian Center for Disease Control acts
quickly to limit the effects of the epidemic.
406 AC: The magical strain of lycanthropy stabilizes
into seven primary weretypes - wolf, boar, tiger, bear, bat,
fox, and giant hawk.
410 AC: Minroth traders unwittingly help spread the
new vampirism and lycanthropy throughout the seafaring world,
including the Kingdom of Undersea.
411 AC: The first wererat awakens to intelligence and
the stunning revelation that he can take human form. He calls
himself Mrikitat.
415 AC: Weresharks first appear in Undersea, triggering
an epidemic of lycanthropy among the sea peoples.
419 AC: Normal seals carry lycanthropy to the sub-polar
regions of Mystara.
425 AC: Minrothad traders unwittingly introduce
lycanthropy to Sind. The disease threatens to overrun every
level of Sindhi society. Weretigers are especially prevalent.
Other shape shifters already in Sind see this as an
opportunity to unite their kind - dopplegangers and mujinas
allying with lycanthropes - and seize complete control of the
area.
Ka the Preserver, an Immortal, fears this would
irrevocably alter Sindian culture and transplants nearly half
of the Sindhi population to the Hollow World before the shape
shifters can effect their takeover. Ka gives false memories to
those he transplants - memories of an outer world Sind once
ruled by shape shifters called /chambahara/, or "deformed
animals." (HW)
Those left behind also receive false memories of a
devastating plague that killed half the Sindhi population.
They are left with many shape shifters to contend with, as Ka
transported only a fraction of the shape shifting population
to the Hollow World. For a while, a Sind ruled by shape
shifters becomes a reality.
443 - 445 AC: Expeditions of elves and humans attempt
to purge Dread Island of all lycanthropes; human population is
decimated; this time is called the Silver Purge. Similar events
take place in Undersea, during the Night of the Long Knives;
many weresharks flee to deeper waters. Werecreatures know this
time as the Great Persecution.
445 - 450 AC: Lycanthropes fleeing from the Great
Persecution establish colonies on every continent.
450 AC: Malf Quickhand leads a halfling slave revolt;
newly-freed halflings take ships and migrate to the island they
name Open Isle.
The Flaems build their capital city, Braejr, in the
region that is now Glantri.
Traldar arrive in the Savage Coast region. They
establish several city-states on the eastern shores of the
Gulf of Hule. Traldar who settle on the western shores are
absorbed into existing human cultures descended from the
Oltecs. Humans of the eastern coast begin to establish
permanent villages and begin to intermingle with elves of the
region. (RS)
451 AC: Mrikitat establishes a nation of wererats in
the sewers beneath the City of Thyatis.
Sindhi mages led by Maga Aditi, a name-level female
magic-user, unite and overthrow the shape shifters. A brutal
purge follows. Elaborate tests and carefully plotted traps
expose a great many shape shifters - dopplegangers and
lycanthropes alike - who are promptly executed. When the dust
settles, the magic-users of Sind establish their own caste,
the /Jadugeryas/, and claim themselves high-born, like the
Himayas (warriors) and Rishiyas (clerics).
460 AC: Wereseals join the list of persistent
weretypes.
475 AC: The forest elf trading port of Verdon is
founded on Alfeisle.
478 AC: Ostland is united under King Cnute the Bold.
488 AC: Hadric Corser, the Great Uniter, brings the
remaining Minroth humans together; founds the city of Minrothad
and lays foundation for an organized trading federation.
491 AC: Mrikitat the wererat attains Immortality in the
Sphere of Time.
500 AC: The Colonial Wars. Thyatian and Alphatian
colonies in Ylaruam begin what will become three centuries of
warfare. The Alasiyan tribes are constantly feuding.
Conflict between Alphatian and Thyatian empires begins;
Minroth traders maintain neutrality and dominate merchant
shipping for both sides.
Traders bearing vampirism and wolf, bear, and boar
lycanthropy settle in Traladara's deep woods and flourish
there.
Big Chief Sitting Drool unites the Broken Lands. Siege
of Corunglain. Orcs threaten Darokin City.
Three of Cnute's sons colonize the mainland near
Ostland. Troll and giant raids are discouraged by punitive
expeditions.
Korotiku now transfers whole pirate villages of
Ostlanders to the Hollow World, placing them among the other
pirates. Within a few generations, the Ostlanders merge with
the other pirates. (HW)
Humans move into the areas that will eventually become
Eusedria and Robrenn; some elves and dwarves ally with these
humans. Lupins and rakasta form permanent settlements along
the central Savage Coast, in lands that will eventually become
Renardy and Bellayne. (RS)
501 - 504 AC: Darokin blames the elves for an attack
on a farm near the Alfheim border, and battles Alfheim in the
Elfwar.
502 AC: Corunglain freed. Darokin Punitive Expedition
massacred and devoured in Trollhattan. Scandal in Darokin.
510 AC: A Northrock chief named Qeodhar organizes his
people and persuades the Alphatian emperor to accept his
nation as a subject territory of Alphatia.
520 AC: The halfling trading port and capital city of
Open Isle, Malfton, is established.
Second Punitive Expedition from Darokin is massacred in
Kol. First caravans attempt to cross Broken Lands.
522 AC: Second Siege of Corunglain. Villages torched.
523 AC: In Darokin, Corunglain falls to the orc armies
of Big Chief Sitting Drool. Thousands are killed and the entire
city is looted. Enslaved population taken back to Broken Lands.
525 AC: Third Punitive Expedition from Glantri and
Darokin. Sitting Drool brought back in chains.
526 AC: Sitting Drool traded for slaves and gold taken
from Corunglain, causing great political uproar in Darokin.
Truce with Darokin and Glantri.
527 AC: Adventurers assassinate Sitting Drool. Tribes
break up again. Various humanoid hordes invade Red Orcland.
550 AC: The beast man invasion of the wizard Illodius
scars the magical forests of Alfheim. Alfheim Town founded in
the blighted area.
560 AC: Alfheim/Darokin alliance crushes the shadowelf
invasion.
570 AC: First settlement is started on the Island of
Ierendi by castoffs from the Five Shires. The island is already
inhabited by small tribes of native aboriginal peoples.
571 AC: Thyatis establishes prisons on five Ierendi
islands currently inhabited by shipbuilding halflings.
575 AC: The hin begin using the Ierendi islands as
year-round naval bases; their seaborne trade flourishes.
582 AC: Telemon, the current shadow-elf King, is
crowned at the Temple of Rafiel.
585 AC: Ethengar raiders oppose the Flaemish in
numerous skirmishes; the Khan's horsemen are driven out.
586 AC: The Thyatians, in need of funds and
resources, conquer the Ierendi islands and seize the
shipbuilding facilities there. The halflings retaliate with
piratical raids on Thyatian shipping.
593 AC: Ruaidhri kills the last of the werehawks.
600 AC: On Ierendi, Mad Creeg leads a rebellion among
the prisoners. With native help, Mad Creeg's improvised army
drives Thyatians from the islands.
The Sylvan Lands are conquered by humans led by the
wizard Moorkroft; the surviving elves of the Sylvan Lands, the
Feadiel clan, make the dangerous passage to Alfheim.
The northern barbarians unite into a tremendous army
that nearly overruns Hule. With city after city falling,
Bozdogan reveals that he has reincarnated Hosadus. The
legendary hero combines warfare with trickery and deceit,
driving the barbarian hordes from Hule.
601 AC: Gregus Verdier, the "Second Uniter," is born on
Alfeisle in Minrothad.
602 AC: Monarchy formed as Mad Creeg claims all
islands, establishing the Kingdom of Ierendi, and declares
himself ruler.
604 AC: Vestlanders revolt against Ostland in response
to increasingly increasing taxes.
609 AC: Decades of feuding between the Jadugeryas and
Rishiyas of Putnabad end as the Jadugeryas flee to the
southern portion of Putnabad and carve their own mumlyket out
of the badlands. They call their small kingdom Jaibul.
610 AC: A band of a hundred elves fleeing their
recently conquered Sylvan Lands far to the northwest encounter
a group of Graakhalians on the Plain of Fire. Most decide to
stay; the rest, having problems accepting the gnolls, leave at
sword-point.
614 AC: Ottar the Just defeats King Finnbogi of Ostland
in the Battle of Bridenfjord, and establishes the Kingdom of
Vestland. Ostland continues to raid southern mainland coasts.
Vestland pursues trade with Alphatian and Thyatian colonies.
623 AC: Devil swine first appear in Alphatia.
637 AC: Black Toes assumes rulership of Ierendi upon
the death of his father. He marries Kethy Matrongle from
Glantri and assumes her surname. The Matrongle family begins
long control of the island.
642 AC: Ierendi's Council of Lords is formed.
644 AC: Ierendi repels Thyatian raids.
645 AC: Ethengar attempts a major invasion of what is
now Glantri but is defeated at Skullhorn Pass.
646 AC: Gregus Verdier forges forest elves of Minrothad
into unified political and economic faction.
662 AC: The Flaemish attempt to invade Ethengar, but
the expeditionary force is utterly massacred in the steppes.
675 AC: King Celedryl purges shadowelf infiltrators
from Alfheim, but is only partly successful.
687 AC: Ierendi merchants discover the rich trade
opportunities Sindhi ports offer. Jaibul and Putnabad compete
fiercely for foreign trade.
691 AC: Gregus Verdier establishes the Council of Dread
and the Minrothad Guilds.
Yubraj Narenda ul Nervi, the Crown Prince of
Sindrastan, nearly dies when his favorite elephant goes mad
and gores him. A holy man saves his life, calming the elephant
and healing the prince. While he lies unconscious, Narenda
experiences a terrible vision of danger Sind will face in the
future - a danger the Sindhi people will be powerless against
unless Sind's independent mumlykets are united. When Narenda
awakens, the holy man is gone; no one can say who he was or
where he went. Narenda's father, Sanjiva ul Nervi, dies later
in the year, leaving the rulership of Sindrastan to his son.
695 AC: Rajah Narenda ul Nervi's army initiates the
slow and bloody process of the unification of Sind by
conquering Gom, Karganj, and Naral.
696 AC: Sandapur falls to Narenda's onslaught. Backed
by the allied forces of the rajahs of Jalawar and Putnabad,
the village of Pramayana stands against Sinddrasan's armies
for more than a year.
698 AC: Pramayana falls at last, but Rajah Narenda
realizes he cannot hope to conquer all of Jalawar. He strikes
westward instead of south, taking Sindri and Khamrati and the
rest of Jhengal.
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V1 #254
*****************************
mystara-digest Wednesday, 9 October 1996 Volume 01 : Number 255
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Robert Kaelin <kaelin@natural.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 13:43:07 -0400
Subject: [Mystara] Bargle the Infamous
>In a message dated 96-10-08 19:40:41 EDT, you write:
>
><< >No offense, but i just don't know where you're coming from on this . .
>
> But don't let that stop you, just embrace it. (Great idea btw whoever
> founded it.) :-)
>
> -Bob >>
>
>is this a joke?
Nope,
(A Grasshopper walks into bar. The bartender says "You know, we have a
drink named after you."
The Grasshopper says, "Really? You have a drink named, Steve?")
That's a joke. :-)
>in my campaign there is a simple rule
>there has to be reasons for things to happen
Cool, here are my simple rules.
1) There's a dozen reasons behind anything if you look hard enough
and
2) Coming up with good story and a good adventure beats sitting around
coming up with reasons any day.
>people dont instantly attain 30th level
>reaching immortality isnt a common thing
Obviously. I never said it should be a common thing. Neither should the
Immortals waging war on each other all over Mystara, or an Old One just
appearing and sucking an Immortals lifeforce into an artifact, or whole new
world be discovered (like MOrient), or the World Games, etc. But they
happen. :-)
>if bargle can reach immortality by taking abandoned wizard towers etc
No, I thought this was simpler. He became powerful (or more powerful) by
taking over abandonded towers. He will then try to attain Immortality by
turning all of Mystara upside down and displaying his superiority at
intrigue, subtetly and general meanness over just about every other living
being.
>why couldnt the master of hule or barimoor do it
(You have this thing against punctuation don't you?) Because they're not
one of my favorite npc's. You do what you want with them in your campaign.
>anyone could attain immortality
>i think it ruins the point of immortality by granting it so easily
Who does it ruin it for? (There. I've just created 15 new Immortals in my
campaign world all from level 1 ninnies. Are you feeling that? I'll worry
about maintaining the 'point of Immortality' in my own campaign, but thanks
for the feedback.) :-)
I could see an argument that it ruins the point of Immortality for the
players. But thankfully I haven't played with players in quite a while who
were childish enough to say anything remotely like "But the NPC's did
it...why can't we?" Why do they even have to know?
>how many centuries has Barimoor been working for it?
Couldn't tell you. Don't care either. It's just an idea for an adventure,
I never said it would happen overnight. :-)
>>>Why would he be looking for Immortality?
>>Um, for the power to outright crush anyone stupid enough to oppose him?
>
>i think you need a better reason than this
I answered the question "Why would Bargle want Immortality?" If you want
to ask the question "Why should the DM give it to him?" that's another
thread.
>if youre looking for a character 30th level
>throughly evil
>trying to reach immortality in the sphere of entropy
>with a bunch of followers
>who wont hesitate to start a war
>why dont you use the Master of Hule or Barimoor
Because the Master is overused and boring and I've never heard of this
Barimoor character. :-)
I like Bargle and I think it would make a great story. I don't need any
other reasons.
>on Mystara you can find anything
>thats why its so wonderful
>theyve already created this character
>except its Hule, Barimoor, McGregor etc... not Bargle
"They've" already created this character? (That would be you again,
Bruce.) :-) And if "They" told you to put all your money into one big
envelope and mail it somewhere, would you? (Hey Bruce, up for a little
experiment?) :-) Heaven's forbid "MY", or assuming I haven't yet
ostracized everyone who agrrees with me "OUR", Bargle be anything else.
I've spent enough time fighting for this idea in other people's campaign.
(Not that I didn't enjoy it. :-) ) Ideas are like busses, if you don't
like the one in front of you just let it go; I'm sure another one will by
in a few minutes that's more to your liking. But please don't come after
me for hopping on and seeing where it's going. :-) (But don't get me
wrong, you're still invited for the ride if you want... The more the
merrier.)
- -Bob
- ------------------------------------------------
Bob Kaelin Natural Intelligence
Software Developer 725 Concord Ave.
(617) 876-7680 x1253 Cambridge Ma. 02138
Kaelin@natural.com <http://www.natural.com>
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 14:27:13 -0400 (EST)
Subject: [Mystara] Time Immortals
While re-going through that obtrusive Timeline I just posted :), a
question occurred to me.. All of the Immortals of the Sphere of Time have
to go into the future 3 times, to help their descendants and their
kingdom. Now, since there /are/ Immortals of Time, they've obviously been
successful.. :)
The question is, When did/do/will these pre-Immortals show up? Al-Kalim
is a prime example.. he's gained Immortality within the past century, so
is due to show up any time now to aid his "grandson". Perhaps he comes
about during Herve's 1014 Almanac to help restore the Preceptors to
power..
There's a few more Immortals who might show up, such as Chardastes (a
Traladaran Immortal), Liena (grandmother of the Emperor of Thyatis);
possibly Kallala of the Seven Veils and Sharpcres the Squid slayer,
Immortals of sea-dwelling races.
Another interesting question.. since these pre-Immortals coming to the
future have succeeded on their quests, and are currently Immortals.. can
their Immortal forms "pull a paradox" and aid their earlier selves? After
all, Khoronus has (probably) set a precedent, since he's (probably) his
own patron.. :)
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Matthew Levy <mlevy@orion.oac.uci.edu>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 12:12:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystaraspace
On Tue, 8 Oct 1996, Daniel Boese wrote:
> > > > Has anything official been printed about Mystara in spelljammer terms?
> > > > Beyond the planet and its two moons, I haven't found anything else
> > > > definitive.
> > > I tend to use 2 sources.. the list of planets given in the gold Immortals
> > > set, and the adventure module X7(?) The Tree of Life, which has a starmap
> > > showing some of the planets' names.
> > Are the two lists identical? I have The Tree of Life, but I would like to
> > know if there is anything extra in the gold Immortals set.
>
> No, the lists are emphatically not identical - in the Immortals set, we
> have the Sun, Venus, Earth, Mars, Damocles (in the asteroid belt's orbit),
> Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and Charon (in the Bode orbit past
> Pluto's) (with Mercury, the asteroids, Pluto, and Jupiter's retrograde
> moons missing - Damocles is going to explode in the future, various pieces
> of it becoming them).
> In my own games, I use this list to place the planets, but use the names
> from X7 for Ven., Mars, Jup., Sat., and Ura.. I call Nep. "Uther", after
> the ancient Blackmoor king because.. well, I don't know why. :)
>
> If anybody has a different Mystaraspace, official or not, now's the time
> to share it.. :)
>
> --
> Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
>
>
so what are the names from CM7?
------------------------------
From: MRRU13B@prodigy.com (MR TIMOTHY M DI BONA)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 10:55:20, -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] World Games
<>
Something funny just cross my head. To make sure none of the
atheletes cheats, future World Games could be held during the
Day of Dread ... Especially after a few years that people are
more used to the Day of Dread. Of course, then they have to
find some place warm to hold the games.
<>
That sounds good, but don't wizards end up casting some type of magic
on the eqivalent to fireworks. Also, the once every two years idea
sounds good. It would probably net in more people too, which would
mean more money .
:]
------------------------------
From: Alad3@aol.com
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 14:46:07 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 2
Is anyone interested in an evn longer, more detailed timeline? If so, please
tell me, and i'll send it with my next posting. For those of you on AOL you
can also downlaod on TSR Online. It's in the Mystara Netbook, which is in the
library, in stories, journals and logs.
Alad3
------------------------------
From: Estlor <estlor@geocities.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 17:07:04 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Time Immortals
<snip>
Well, I point out the Immortal Yav. His whole history (in CoM boxed
set) shows his little escapades through time (though he didn't plan it
that way).
As for Al-Kalim, I did think maybe all that talk about the "war" between
the Alfhiem refugees and the SE aggressors would somehow involove him
working towards immortality.
Oh, and TSR took the easy way out in the WotI by saying that further
events can change what happened and what the Immortal experienced may
never happen...which could explain a lot.
Estlor
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 12:07:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 3
******************** Catastrophe and Recovery *****************
******************** Return to the Stone Age ******************
*********************** Early Bronze Ages *********************
3000 BC: Some Blackmoor devices explode, shifting the
axis of the Known World in an event later called the Great Rain
of Fire or the Planetshift. Blackmoor becomes the north pole
and its civilization disappears. The elven civilization becomes
the south pole; the elves are able to migrate to the area
called Grunland (which now begins centuries of volcanic
upheaval that lead to its being renamed Vulcania). These
southern-continent elves, though suffering hardship, are not in
immediate danger of extinction and so none are taken to the
Hollow World.
The Blackmoor explosion catches the Immortals
offguard; they cannot summon enough power to prevent its most
harmful effects. The Blackmoor civilization is eradicated
before they can preserve any part of it. The Oltec and Azcan
races are threatened with imminent extinction by the changing
climate brought about by the Rain of Fire, so large numbers of
both tribes are magically whisked to the Hollow World. They
are placed in the land to the north of the great equatorial
mountain range; the Azcans are located in the forests next to
the sea, which they name the Aztlan Ocean. The Oltecs are
placed to their southeast, with a great swamp separating them
and the Azcans. Both races encounter the numerous Neathar
tribes; the Oltecs leave them alone, while the Azcans wage war
on the Neathar, always trying to expand their borders. (HW)
Melting ice caps raise ocean level by several hundred
feet. Lowland marshes and coastal plains along the southern
edge of the northern continent are flooded.
Survivors of the elven colony near Blackmoor flee to
the newly-formed Broken Lands; they burrow deep into the ground
to survive the aftereffects of the Great Rain of Fire. These
are the ancestors of the Shadow Elves. (GAZ13)
Two races of humans come to the land that will later
be called the Minaean Coast. From the east comes Tangor Man,
driven from his home by climatic changes brought on by the
Great Rain of Fire. From across the waters to the west comes
Oltec Man on one of his great colonizing migrations.
The ice caps recede from the southern edge of the
continent of Brun. Spirits are drawn in to merge with the
world. (GAZ12)
One of the most dangerous Blackmoor devices is left
untouched in the Broken Lands. (GAZ10)
The Great Rain of Fire is seen by Azcans and Oltecs
alike as an important part of their mysticism: the End of the
Fifth Sun. The Immortals magically transplant large numbers of
these peoples to the Hollow World to save them. (GAZ14)
The shark-kin, after spending thousands of years on the
land, return to the sea. (PC3)
On the Alphatians' world, Alphatian aggression is
gradually supplanted by Cypric self-absorption; other-planetary
conquests and colonies are left to fend for themselves as
Alphatian study of magic turns inward. (DotE)
3000 - 2500 BC: Formerly arctic areas of the Known
World, including most of the lands covered in the Gazetteer
series, slowly become habitable as the ice recedes from former
polar regions.
Ka and his ally-Immortals must spend hundreds of years
and incalculable magical energy to prevent the sudden change
in the planet's axis from destroying whole regions of the
Hollow World. The Immortals create new, gigantic, fogclad
openings to the outside world at the location of the new
poles, and seal up the former (smaller) polar openings. They
also work madly to preserve numerous Known World human tribes
from extinction; these include some of the Tanagoro tribes.
The Tanagoro are placed in the plains south of the great
equatorial mountain range, south and west of the Brute-Men;
the Tanagoro think of those races as monsters and keep well
away from their hills and mountains. (HW)
2900 BC: The Immortal named Garal Glitterlode creates
the gnomish race, planting colonies of them in the land that
will later become Rockhome and the mountains of the northern
continent. (PC2)
2800 BC: New elven nation on the southern continent
land of Vulcania divides on magic vs. technology. A separatist
branch of the southern elves, led by Ilsundal the Wise, decides
to abandon Blackmoor technology and return to the
nature-oriented magic of their ancestors. They begin a long
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migration northward in the hope of finding the lost colony of
elves that had settled near Blackmoor. (GAZ5)
Azcans and Oltecs on the outer world have practically
vanished, dispersed across the world and culturally transformed
in every case. A small number of survivors take refuge in the
caves of a mighty plateau. These are the ancestors of the
modern Atruaghin Clan. This plateau, although impressive, is
nowhere near as grand as the one that now stands in the lands
north of the Sea of Dread. They retain a dim memory, retold and
altered into myth and folklore, of Azcan and Oltec glory and
strife. They also remember the mysterious disappearance of many
kin. (GAZ14)
2500 BC: Gnomes and dwarves enter the Northern Reaches
region and settle in its hills and mountains as the continental
ice sheets recede. (GAZ7)
The Taymora humans settle the southern shores of the
northern continent. (PC3)
Climatic changes due to the axial shift have rendered
the lands of Blackmoor and the elves uninhabitable. In Vulcania,
the elvish civilization is losing its battle with the elements;
it has forgotten most of its magic and its Blackmoor technology
is failing. A second separatist group of southern elves begins
its long march northward. (GAZ5)
2410 BC: It is obvious to the Immortals that the
southern elves are doomed, but this leaves them with a
quandry. They want to preserve that elvish culture, but not
the technologies which nearly destroyed the world. They settle
on a compromise: They will magically alter the devices upon
which the elves have grown so dependant, so that these devices
will operate in only one certain valley in the Hollow World.
That way, the dangerous sciences of Blackmoor cannot infect
any other part of the Hollow World. Many of the elves of the
southern continent are transplanted to the Hollow World. They
are placed in a warm, volcanically-heated series of valleys
near the southern polar opening, far away from any of the
other Hollow World cultures. (HW)
2400 BC: The land that was Hyborea is now warming up;
the Beastmen migrate to the area that was once Blackmoor, which
is now the northern pole, and thrive there. They are beginning
to breed true, in recognizable species. The tribes gather at
Urzud.
The Immortals are intrigued by the Beastmen. Since
they are now beginning to breed in recognizable strains, the
original "chaotic" race is threatened with extinction. The
Immortals take a few Beastman tribes, magically restore them
to their original chaotic state, and lead them to the Hollow
World. They don't magically transport the Beastmen into the
Hollow World; they inspire one leader/colonizer to lead
followers northward, and those Beastmen eventually wander
their way into the Hollow World. They settle in the icy lands
near the northern polar opening. (HW)
A great volcanic explosion occurs in Vulcania,
destroying the remnants of the southern elvish civilization.
(GAZ5)
A human culture, the Antalian tribes (descendants of
the Neathar) are flourishing in the area later to be called
Norwold. They are a blond, warlike culture with bronze weapons
and armor.
2300 BC: Ilsundal's elves cross the Strait of Izonda to
the Immortal's Arm, then head east along the Savage Coast.
Another group takes another route through the Adakkian Sound,
where they rejoin Ilsundal's band and continue with them.
(GAZ5)
Elves arrive in and settle the eastern and central
Savage Coast. They live alongside, but not among, Oltecs. (RS)
The Sheyallia clan turns south, onto the Serpent
Peninsula, and settles in the forest. The Meditor and Verdier
clans, disliking the increasingly rainy and hot climate, sail
east in search of better lands. (CoM)
2200 BC: Some elves break off from Ilsundal's migration
and eventually find their way to the frozen valleys of Glantri,
where they settle. A few survivors from the second migration
from Vulcania also reach Glantri and settle among their
cousins. (GAZ3)
Some Tanagoro colonists from halfway around the world
reach the Serpent Peninsula and decide they like the abundant
rain forests. However, the elves regard their slash-and-burn
agriculture with horror. Eventually, they work out a
compromise: the Tanagoros keep to the coastlines and forest
fringes, while the elves withdraw deeper into the forest. (CoM)
2100 BC: Meditor and Verdier elf clans leave Ilsundal's
northward migrations and settle in southern Traldar lands
(Karameikos). (GAZ?)
The main force of Ilsundal's migration reaches the
Sylvan Realm, far to the west of lands such as Karameikos and
Thyatis. (GAZ5)
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Estlor <estlor@geocities.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 17:31:17 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystaraspace
<snip, snip, snip!!!>
I basically use the Gold Immortal rules, but instead of the old standby
for planet names I do this:
All but one of the planets use roman gods, so I greekify them...
Mercury = Hermes
Venus = Aphrodite
Mystara = Mystara
Damacoles = Damacoles
Mars = Ares
Jupiter = Zeus
Saturn = Chronos
Uranus (whopse! This is greek, so here's a Latin word for you) = Choeli
Neptune = Poseidon
Pluto = Hades
Charon = Charon
Minor change, but I thought it fit
Estlor
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 14:18:34 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bargle the Infamous
On Tue, 8 Oct 1996, Estlor wrote:
> (according to Joshuan Gallidox, he is thought to be somewhere near
> Threshold once again).
Of course, the Bargle that is thought to be residing near Threshold
currently could be a mere impostor, attempting to make good on Bargle's
name- perhaps his cousin Bargle, the private investigator formerly from
Ierendi? Cashing in on his much more powerful cousin's good/bad name, now
that the Infamous one has fled Karameikos?
(Of course, it could be Bargle the Infamous himself come home to roost-
remember the adventure idea from the Blue Box Expert set wherein it is
revealed that he has a small army of Massmorphed and Magically sleeping
soldiers camped just outside of Threshold?)
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 14:12:40 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bargle the Infamous
On Tue, 8 Oct 1996, Robert Kaelin wrote:
> b) Bargle's good at gaining power by taking it form others. With mages
> dying out left and right while Glantri and Alphatia nuke one another
> wouldn't there be a LOT of abandonded mages towers, secret caches, and
> other wizards possessions laying about. (If one is talented enough to find
> them, of course. And Bargle is no slouch.) Maybe he spent the entire WotI
> scrying and watching for mage battles, noting which participants fall in
> the fight, find out where they live and then teleport to their towers with
> about 50 dispel magics on scrolls for the latent defences around the tower
> and do a litte "house cleaning". OK, it's a stretch to say that would make
> him 30th, but it could make him REALLY impressive.
So _that's_ what he was really doing over there in Alphatian territory!
Looting the towers of dead Alphatian mages!
Actually, it makes a lot of sense- most/many of the 1000 36th level mages
were slain in the Great War, and must have left oodles of treasure troves
around for anyone enterprising enough to find them- particularly a
powerful mage who could bypass the magical and monsterful (is that a
word?- don't answer, I know it isn't...) traps left behind.
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 17:33:19 -0400 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystaraspace
> > > > I tend to use 2 sources.. the list of planets given in the gold Immortals
> > > > set, and the adventure module X7(?) The Tree of Life, which has a starmap
> > > > showing some of the planets' names.
> so what are the names from CM7?
On the starmap..
Seen in the north: Zoar
West: Alith
South: Mym
East: Hoth
Central: Telax
and while I'm looking at it, here's a list of the constellations and named
stars. Don't ask me how a constellation is supposed to have a planet as a
major part of it, though.. Bruce Heard wrote the module. :)
C|1
AB|23
- --+--
98|54
7|6
Clockwise, starting in the north (3 constellations per quadrant):
(North)
1 The Eagle (with planet Zoar and star Hunard)
2 The Centaur (with planet Telax)
3 The Manticore (with planet Alith)
(West)
4 The Narwhal (with star Lith)
5 The Nymph (with star Walinar)
6 The Hydra (with planet Mym and star Sidon)
(South)
7 The House (with star Rhax)
8 The Lizard (with star Wyrm)
9 Justice (with star Goloth)
(East)
A The Warrior (with planet Loth)
B The Chimera (with star Celeb)
C The Griffon (with star Mantis)
PS: If anybody cares to compare the map to the astrology given in the
Almanacs, go right ahead.. :)
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 12:04:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mystara] /Finally/, v1.2 of the timeline...
Well, it's still not complete (and I doubt it ever will be) :), but it's
gone from ~116K to ~141K over the past while - let's call this v1.2, and
I'll keep working on it.
I don't remember many of the changes I've made, except that it's now in
much smaller, more managable sizes, and I've labelled most of the Red
Steel and Hollow World references - if anybody cares to proofread it, by
all means, do so.. :)
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
Official Unofficial Official Unofficial Timeline keeper :)
------------------------------
From: David Keyser <davidk@Synopsys.COM>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 14:25:13 -0700
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Time Immortals
> From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
>
> While re-going through that obtrusive Timeline I just posted :), a
> question occurred to me.. All of the Immortals of the Sphere of Time have
> to go into the future 3 times, to help their descendants and their
> kingdom. Now, since there /are/ Immortals of Time, they've obviously been
> successful.. :)
> The question is, When did/do/will these pre-Immortals show up? Al-Kalim
> is a prime example.. he's gained Immortality within the past century, so
> is due to show up any time now to aid his "grandson". Perhaps he comes
> about during Herve's 1014 Almanac to help restore the Preceptors to
> power..
> There's a few more Immortals who might show up, such as Chardastes (a
> Traladaran Immortal), Liena (grandmother of the Emperor of Thyatis);
> possibly Kallala of the Seven Veils and Sharpcres the Squid slayer,
> Immortals of sea-dwelling races.
> Another interesting question.. since these pre-Immortals coming to the
> future have succeeded on their quests, and are currently Immortals.. can
> their Immortal forms "pull a paradox" and aid their earlier selves? After
> all, Khoronus has (probably) set a precedent, since he's (probably) his
> own patron.. :)
>
> --
> Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
>
Now that is a very good question, which occurred to me as well a few weeks ago
as I pondered the consequences of having a PC follow the path of the dynast. I
originally decided that if it ever comes that far, the PC will go into the
future as the last step before achieving immortality, and that if she succeeds,
she becomes an Immortal at that time in the far future, not in her original
present. She is missing from the timeline for a while, but it skips over these
potential paradoxes. I also remember this to be how Yav became immortal.
But I had forgotten about Al-Kalim, Liena, and the others. Nuts...
Well, I would want to keep things consistent between how the PC can attain
Immortality and how these Immortals do the same. So I would lay the following
ground rules:
Rule 1. An Immortal cannot aid, in any way, his pre-Immortal form, when that
form comes into the future(the Immortal's present).
This will not conflict with how Khoronus became an Immortal, because he sent his
time machines into the past(by accident), which was his pre-Immortal form's
present. And while all Immortals can go into the past if necessary, they never
do this to help their pre-Immortal forms, because they handled it without their
help the first time, so why bother wasting power?
It also prevents any PC attempting to follow the dynast path from pulling those
little tricks that were seen in the movie Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure.
I could just see it now:
DM - "Your timely warning has helped your great-great-grandson repel the enemy
attack and saved the nation. As your nation's forces rout the invaders, you are
seperated from your descendant by a small group of the opponents. Suddenly, you
notice a lone enemy soldier rise up directly behind your great-great-grandson.
No one else has noticed, and as you try to slash your way to him, the soldier
draws a glowing dagger."
PC - "Remember the garbage can."
DM - "Uh, suddenly a garbage can falls from the sky and lands on the soldier,
killing him."
Rule 2. The Immortal cannot enter the plane where the pre-Immortal form is
located, presumably the Prime Material Plane.
This prevents the two beings from meeting each other, and resolves any question
of a paradox of someone being in two places at once. This rule is not that
big a deal, though, if you don't care about this type of paradox. I suppose
that the Immortal could consider the pre-Immortal form to be similar to an
avatar. It may only be necessary if you play the old Gold Box set where
Immortals had to revert back to their mortal identity when returning to their
plane of origin.
Dave Keyser
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V1 #255
*****************************
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mystara-digest Wednesday, 9 October 1996 Volume 01 : Number 256
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 12:06:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 1
************************* Prehistory **************************
? BC: Creation of Mystara
? BC: Creation of Life: Once the world was shaped, life
is created upon its (outer) surface over thousands or even
millions of millennia. Some species and races evolve naturally;
others are created by ancient, elemental Immortals and by
unknown forces. (hw)
As some of these races learn to manipulate magic, they
too begin creating entirely new species. And as they probe ever
deeper into the workings of magic, some of them learn of the
path they could take to Immortality. A few of the ones who
learned of the path actually set out on it. A /very/ few of the
ones who set out on the path actually achieve Immortality. (hw)
A time so ancient most scholars know nothing of it:
Mystara is occupied by great beasts of all sizes and varieties
- - especially huge reptiles. (hw)
A thousand years after his birth, Ka the Preserver
stumbles on the path to Immortality, and becomes one of the
earliest of the world's Immortals. (hw)
? BC: A great meteor, a rock the size of a large
island, slams into Mystara, causing massive environmental
changes and threatening thousands of species with extinction.
(hw)
? BC: After the thousands of years it took to preserve
as many species as possible, Ka, exploring the crater of the
great meteor, follows a series of cracks and fissures and
discovers the World-Shield and the Hollow World, which is
currently only a hole in the ground (although the greatest
hole in the ground there could possibly ever be). (HW)
? BC: Over subsequent millennia, Ka, Ixion, Ordana,
and Korotiku sculpt and alter the Hollow World into a giant
preserve of species and cultures. Ka opens great shafts a few
miles across from the outer world to the Hollow World at the
poles. (HW)
? BC: As the millennia pass, more and more races and
cultures are preserved in the Hollow World. (HW)
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Roundhouse <Roundhouse@mms.net>
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 18:46:14 -0400
Subject: [Mystara] WotI--Ideas wanted
Hello. I'm fairly new to the group and wanted to introduce myself and see if
anyone has any ideas to help me with the campaign I just started.
I'm running the Wrath of Immortals but I have a PC who wasn't really
accounted for in the original writing. She's playing a Pegataur from Top
Ballista. Serraine was completely ignored in the writing of the course of
the war. If she never thinks to try and get Serraine involved everything is
fine, but otherwise I want to do something besides having them flatly refuse
to fight.
Any suggestions?
- --
I've done the math and Galileo was wrong. The world doesn't revolve around
the sun, it revolves around me.
Daniel J. Macchia
Roundhouse@mms.net
------------------------------
From: MRRU13B@prodigy.com (MR TIMOTHY M DI BONA)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 17:35:05, -0500
Subject: [Mystara] Bargle the Infamous
>>in my campaign there is a simple rule
>>there has to be reasons for things to happen
>Coming up with good story and a good adventure beats sitting around
>coming up with reasons any day.
it does? Usually to create a story you need a reason for it to happen,
then you create the story around it. Then, you can create an
adventure based on this work. Otherwise, your adventures are hollow.
>>people dont instantly attain 30th level
>>reaching immortality isnt a common thing
>Obviously. I never said it should be a common thing. Neither
should the
>Immortals waging war on each other all over Mystara, or an Old One
just
>appearing and sucking an Immortals lifeforce into an artifact, or
whole new
>world be discovered (like MOrient), or the World Games, etc. But
they
>happen. :-)
What's your point? Are you trying to say that Immortality just
"happens"? Your mixing up an event and a process. There is a process
to becoming an immortal. Events are spontaneous.
<>
No, I thought this was simpler. He became powerful (or more
powerful) by
taking over abandonded towers<>
Okay . . . . where are all of these abandoned towers? Why will this
give him so much power? If a tower is abandoned, it probably won't
have anything of use inside it.
<>
I could see an argument that it ruins the point of Immortality for
the
players. But thankfully I haven't played with players in quite a
while who
were childish enough to say anything remotely like "But the NPC's
did
it...why can't we?" Why do they even have to know?
<>
So, what are you trying to say? PCs can't attain Immortality the way
your NPCs can?
Well, that is understandable considering all you need to do to reach
immortality is hop into a few abandoned towers and try to start
fights.
>>how many centuries has Barimoor been working for it?
>Couldn't tell you. Don't care either. It's just an idea for an
adventure,
>I never said it would happen overnight. :-)
Right, it can't happen over night. Actually not for the next few
hundred years if Bargle is extremely lucky.
>>if youre looking for a character 30th level
>>throughly evil
>>trying to reach immortality in the sphere of entropy
>>with a bunch of followers
>>who wont hesitate to start a war
>>why dont you use the Master of Hule or Barimoor
>Because the Master is overused and boring and I've never heard of
this
>Barimoor character. :-)
hmmmm...... never heard of Barimoor? You realize you're in Mystara
don't you??? Or does one of the most powerful charecters in the world
just not interest you?
>>on Mystara you can find anything
>>thats why its so wonderful
>>theyve already created this character
>>except its Hule, Barimoor, McGregor etc... not Bargle
<>"They've" already created this character? (That would be you again,
Bruce.) :-) And if "They" told you to put all your money into one
big
envelope and mail it somewhere, would you? (Hey Bruce, up for a
little
experiment?) :-) Heaven's forbid "MY", or assuming I haven't yet
ostracized everyone who agrrees with me "OUR", Bargle be anything
else.
<>
This has nothing to do with the previous statement. And why are you
trying to drag Bruce into the argument? If he has something to say,
I'm sure he'll post it.
<>
I've spent enough time fighting for this idea in other people's
campaign.
(Not that I didn't enjoy it. :-) ) Ideas are like busses, if you
don't
like the one in front of you just let it go; I'm sure another one
will by
in a few minutes that's more to your liking. But please don't come
after
me for hopping on and seeing where it's going. :-) (But don't get
me
wrong, you're still invited for the ride if you want... The more the
merrier.)
<>
???? ummm if you say so.........
- -tim
------------------------------
From: MRRU13B@prodigy.com (MR TIMOTHY M DI BONA)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 17:08:13, -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bargle the Infamous
Howdy,
I think the Mystara list has seen me harp on this point enough so I'm
only
sending it to you. If you want to post this, or any response you
want to
make to the list then go ahead. I'm still open to debate. :-)
>>>Really? Just boost him to 30th level assumeing he killed wizards?
>>Well ya, did your DM license to do whatever you want get revoked
or
>something?
>No, actually my "DM license" allows me to create feasible plots and
>stories for the PCs in my world. It doesn't allow me to dump
millions
>of experience points on existing NPCs for no apparent reason.
You should splurge for the deluxe license then. Just as we "real-
life"
mortals cannot comprehend everything that goes on in the world so can
the
PC's not comprehend everything that goes on in theirs. (Nor on some
things
will they ever.) In the end you never have to explain anything to
them.
(And I'm not saying make it up as you go, I'm just saying make up
some
wacky reason and keep it to yourself. "Bargle found some artifact
laying
about in an abandoned wizards tower that made him 30th, The old
wizard
couldn't figure it out because he wasn't the right
alignment/class/specialty/whatever. Then the artifact teleported to
a
random location after he used it, happy now?" :-) ) Sheesh.
>>>Why would he be looking for Immortality?
>>Um, for the power to outright crush anyone stupid enough to oppose
>him?
>This is a foolish statement. Bargle would need hundreds of years to
>attain Immortality at best. He doesn't even have a sponsor, and IMO
>he hasn't accomplished a feat to gain the attension of Entropic
>Immortals. Maybe if he finally suceeded in the killing of King
Stefan,
> but even then he might not gain the attention.
Again, I answered "Why would Bargle WANT Immortality, and strive for
it."
He wouldn't gain Immortality just for ransacking some empty towers,
but
he'd gain the power to start his quest there. Whether it's "foolish"
or
not I'll let drop.
>>>and what
>>>evil leaders in the world?
>>Well, I'll grant you that that's subjective. But just about any
of
>them.
>Who?
Let's drop the evil/good leaders thing. I never favored that anyway.
He
could do it to any of them; they all listen to advisors at one point
or
another.
>>> Who can trust Bargle to make
>>> an alliance with him, especially after what has happened recently?
>
>
>> Who outside of Karameikos has even heard of him anyway?
>>(Aside from Ludwig now)
>hmmm. Just about anyone seeing the HUGE reword in the capture of
his
>live or dead body. Anyone who has done any reasearch on Bargle,
knows
>he has a Staff of Magi. Anyone interested in that? Bargle IS known
>outside of Karameikos.
Why would they just "know" he has a Staff of the Magi. Who would
even know
a Staff of the Magi well enough to recognize it but a few really
poweful
mages. I doubt Bargle was stupid enough to tell anyone what it was.
If
your players or even other NPC's can recite the magic items owned by
NPC's
maybe the problem isn't in my campaign? :-)
>>And what do you mean "Just because he's evil doesn't mean he wants
>to
>>create a huge good vs. evil war spanning the globe." It's a plot
>idea
>Not for his charecter it's not. This isn't Bargle, this is the
master
>of Hule. He is of high level, attempting to reach Immortality in
>Entropy, and has connections with several Immortals from that sphere.
>It's a great plot idea, but not for Bargle.
I'm sorry. Is my vision getting that blurry that I can't
differentiate
NPC's? No, this is MY Bargle. Just because he's not yours won't
hurt my
feelings. So it won't make the timeline, I like it. :-)
>>You're selling him way short. We like him and we want to see him
>kick a
>>little ass. So sue us. :-)
>Bargle has potential, but he isn't powerfull enough yet. He has
many
>people trying to find and capture/kill him. He himself can't trust
>anyone now. He has to lay low until he believes he isn't in
immediate
>danger anymore.
We obviously don't see eye to eye on what a 17th level mage who's
very
determined can accomplish. Let him go to Glantri, he could even
become a
Baron. Let's see them come after him when he can make the laws up at
his
whim. :-)
>>> You can't assume he killed some unknown wizards for no
>>>reason, and will reach Immortality for apparently no reason other
>>>than starting a war.
>>Well sure you can. Assume away.
>Just assume it? You need to build up a backround for these people.
>What if he was questioned and forced to give answers by some PCs?
You
>as the DM won't even know what to say. You'll have to BS your way
out
>of it. Hardly a well designed campaign. This is why you can't
>"assume" everything. Especially the birth of a new Immortal. This
>creates an unbelievable 2-dimensional world with no depth.
I've got so much to say on this point. But It's off the subject
(which was
Bargle, remember?) so I'll let you have the last word on it.
>This could happen with a few exceptions. The major Alphation
assault
>was solely on Glantri City. And that was successfully defended. Sure,
>some died, but Bargle would have to beat out some of the best
rogues
>in Glantri.
>
>Also, no one of grand stature died that had any remnants of their
>work left behind. Bargle could maybe have picked up a few things,
but
>not enough to probably even raise him one level.
You still don't grasp it, but yet it's so simple. It happens simply
because the DM says it happens, not because it's written in a book.
Reasons are easy to come by before, during or after. It's not like a
math
test where you have to show your work.
>><c) What do you mean "for no other reason then starting a war?"
If
>Bargle
>manages to worm his way into positions of advisor-hood for, let's
say
>a
>dozen, leaders of the world (Probably all under different
disguises
>and
>illusions) and then proceeds to pit them against one another like
>nothing
>more then pawns in some giant chess match, slaying millions and
>basically
>turning Mystara upside down for a few decades, No Immortal of
Entropy
>would
>find that even mildly entertaining? ><
>
>Okay, now this is interesting, but I really see this under the
lines
>of an alternate identity of the master of hule. This just doesn't
>seem to be Bargle.
Then don't use him for it, I never tried to make you, or even asked
you to.
Mind if I do? (Apparently so) :-)
>It seems like you have put some good thought into this. I do like
the
>ideas, but just not centered on Bargle. Give Bargle's charecter
some
>time. Who knows, maybe in a few hundred years he'll be dining with
>Thanatos himself. :]
Cool, and maybe my Bargle will sponsor yours. :-)
- -Bob
- ------------------------------------------------
Bob Kaelin Natural Intelligence
Software Developer 725 Concord Ave.
(617) 876-7680 x1253 Cambridge Ma. 02138
Kaelin@natural.com <http://www.natural.com>
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 12:12:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 6
500 BC: The Traldar are in the midst of their Dark Age.
Communication between communities is infrequent. Local dialects
begin to differ widely. The national epic of King Halav is the
only thing which gives the people a sense of unity. Linguistic
changes are already advanced enough that the people consider
themselves Traladara, descendants of the Traldar, the people of
King Halav. (GAZ1)
Oenkmar Rock sinks into the earth.
Elsewhere, the Nithian Empire, having incurred Immortal
dislike, abruptly ends; the Immortals alter the climate, divert
the headwaters of the River Nithia, promote social unrest, deny
magical powers to their clerics, and take other actions which
cause the Empire to collapse catastrophically. The Immortals
use magic to ensure that almost all trace of the Empire is
wiped from the face of the Known World. The colonies are
systematically destroyed - except for Thothia, which has
already turned away from the Entropic faith which led to the
destruction of Nithia.
The Immortals gather up great numbers of Nithians,
those untouched by the evil of Thanatos and Ranivorus, and
transport them to the banks of a great river similar to the
River Nithia on the outer world. They swiftly rebuild their
civilization. They are near only to the Tanagoro warriors and
Jennite riders to the west; then begin on-again, off-again
wars against the Tanagoro and Jennites to seize their fertile
plains and acquire slaves. (HW)
With the destruction of the Nithians, the Immortal
Pflarr, insulted by the Nithians' betrayal , turns his back on
the outer world, He turns his attention to the Hollow World
Nithians, and sets up a colony of Hutaaka in a sheltered
valley of the Hollow World - west of the Brute-Men, north of
the Nithians. (HW)
Ancestors of modern Alasiyan peoples withdraw to
desert basins and establish a nomadic culture. Weak mainland
human tribal cultures in the Northern Reaches are at the mercy
of giantish clans. The remaining Black Moon gnolls scatter east
and west.
In the Ierendi islands, the Malpheggi lizard men,
doomed to extinction by a parasitic plague brought by the
Nithian colonists, wipe out the Nithians before dying
themselves. This is part of the Immortal plan to destroy the
Nithian Empire.
The Immortals cure and transport remnants of the
Malpheggi lizard man race to the Hollow World, placing them in
the great swamp between the Azcans and the Oltecs. Both the
Azcans and the Schattenalfen find mercenary allies among the
Malpheggi. (HW)
By now, the steppes where Mealiden's elves settled have
become the mighty Canolbarth forest.
By now, the Thyatians, Kerendans and Hattians have
conquered and assimilated the human tribes who opposed them;
they are now in full control of the region which will one day
be called Thyatis.
Yav, known as Mulogo, convinces the Tanagoro people of
the Serpent Peninsula to sail across the Western Sea and
settle on the Immortal's Arm.
Herath wars with Wallara; manscorpions betray the
enduks and take possession of Nimmur; Nithians disappear,
leaving little evidence other than a few relics and pyramids.
The Red Curse is created, but confined by Herathian mages in
portions of the eastern Savage Coast. (RS)
493 BC: Queen Ubdala of the Broken Lands raises Great
Horde again. She recruits goblins and gnolls in the Altan
Tepes, and marches north.
492 BC: At the battle of Sardal Pass, they are routed,
the orcs utterly massacred. Ubdala dies. Hordes routed south
and west, crowding Cruth mountains and Altan Tepes. Gnomes
kicked out.
The Immortal Karaash takes pity on a band of
particularly valiant orc-warriors led by their chieftain,
Krugel. Trapped by the dwarves during their assault on
Rockhome, surrounded in the Sardal Pass, and in imminent
danger of being wiped out, they demonstrate ferocity and
gallantry unusual in orc warriors, Karaash transports them to
the Hollow World, to the arid plains north of the Kogolor
Dwarves. (HW)
490 BC: Kobold clans are driven into the uplands of the
Northern Reaches from the west. They overrun and exterminate
the gnomes, and occupy their subterranean kingdoms.
480 BC: Yav leaves the Tanagoro and sails back to the
Serpent Peninsula to search for what was causing the unnatural
greed and selfish thoughts (not to mention precognitive
abilities) of residents.
475 BC: Dwarves begin exploration and colonization of
neighboring territories.
452 BC: Mahmatti Running Elk becomes an Immortal after
becoming one of the most powerful shamani ever to exist atop
the Atruaghin Plateau.
450 BC: Dwarves arrive along the eastern Savage Coast
and build small colonies. (RS)
Krugel, leader of the Hollow World orcs, dies. In his
lifetime, he has transformed a couple of hundred followers
into a well-trained, well-motivated, well-supplied horde of
conquest-minded plains riders, who now take his name to honor
him: They will be called the Krugel Horde. They continue to
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attack and sack communities of the Neathar to the west and the
Kogolor dwarves to the south. They do not want to conquer
lands; they wand loot. (HW)
400 BC: The prophet Mulogo (actually Yav) reappears
and leads the People of Yav from the Immortal's Arm back to
Thanegia Island.
350 BC: Mealiden abdicates the throne to follow
Ilsundal's path to Immortality. Alevar of the Grunalf clan
becomes king of Alfheim.
322 BC: A Schattenalfen attack annihilates the southern
Azcan city of Axateotl for the seventh, and last, time. (HW)
251 BC: A legendary gnome craftsman named Glimreen
Gemeye discovers a jet engine artifact of the destroyed
Blackmoor civilization.
250 BC: Mealiden becomes an Immortal of the Sphere of
Energy.
The Immortal Korotiku, charmed by the cleverness and
ruthlessness ofthe pirates of Thyatis, transplants several
communities of them to the Hollow World, establishing them in
equatorial islands not far from the territories settled by the
Traldar. He has conceived an interesting experiment for the
Hollow World. He's decided that it would be interesting to
populate one area of the Hollow World seas with pirates,
creating a new culture which is exclusively piratical. (HW)
200 BC: Tritons fleeing from their devilfish enemies
enter the Sunlit Sea and establish the Kingdom of Undersea in
the waters between the islands of Ierendi and Minrothad.
By now, orcs control the land to the west of the
Streel River, as far south as Akorros. They also control the
Broken Lands, southern Glantri, and most of Ethengar. Humans
control the areas south of Akorros; elves control Alfheim to
the east.
Alphatians begin settling the region of the Peninsula
of Esterhold. They use their magic and sophisticated military
forces to drive most of the Jennites back several hundred
miles and enslave the rest. (DotE)
The centuries-old Milenian Empire begins to weaken.
192 BC: The Alphatians, annoyed by the piratical
activities of the Thyatian tribes, launch a campaign to conquer
Thyatis. (DotE)
190 BC: The Alphatians complete their conquest of
Thyatis; Thyatis is now part of the Alphatian empire. (DotE)
150 BC: The outer-world Shadow Elves contact the
humanoid tribes of the Broken Lands, spreading their hatred of
the above-ground elves and persuading the humanoids to attack
Alfheim. (GAZ13/GAZ10)
Tortle civilization rises on the central Savage Coast.
(RS)
100 BC: The Milenian civilization has grown soft and
decadent. It enslaves surrounding tribes and nations; most
soldiers in the Milenian army are conscripts from conquered
tribes. The Immortals decide to preserve the Empire in its
earlier, more heroic form; they transport to the Hollow World
all Milenians who adhere to the earlier Milenian goals and
desires. Depriving the Milenians of their few remaining true
warriors and uncorrupted government leaders sends the empire to
its doom even more swiftly.
The newly-transplanted Milenians begin to reforge
their civilization along its original lines. Placed on the
virgin seacoast far south of the Traldar lands, they have the
warlike Tanagoro and Jennite races to their east. They build
their empire on the coast and in lands seized from the
Tanagoro and Jennites, who become their recurring enemies. (HW)
Newcomers reach Skothar's southwestern shores. They
come from the continent of Davania, fleeing the collapse of
the Milenian Empire and seeking to establish a colony where
their way of life could survive. They find the coast already
inhabited, and ask and are granted permission by the nearby
natives to settle a stretch of wilderness between two
prosperous Jennite cities.
In the Lost Valley of the Hutaaka, the descendants of
the Traldar finally free themselves from Hutaakan rulership and
begin warring on their former masters. This racial war is
destined to go on for another 1,100 years. (GAZ1)
98 BC: Rebellion against the corrupt King Bollo of
Rockhome - the Rockhome Senate is established.
50 BC: The decadent Milenian civilization collapses
utterly under the attacks of surrounding tribes.
2 BC: Lucinius Trenzantenbium, a Thyatian-born,
Alphatian-trained wizard, kills the Alphatian wizards in
Thyatis and declares himself King of Thyatis; war breaks out
between Thyatis and Alphatia. (DotE)
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: MRRU13B@prodigy.com (MR TIMOTHY M DI BONA)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 18:18:39, -0500
Subject: [Mystara] Bargle the Infamous
>You should splurge for the deluxe license then. Just as we "real-
life"
>mortals cannot comprehend everything that goes on in the world so
can the
>PC's not comprehend everything that goes on in theirs. (Nor on some
things
>will they ever.) In the end you never have to explain anything to
them.
Correct, but this is no excuse to slack off on a little extra DM work
in case the truth comes out. PCs are quite unpredictable as any DM
should know.
> "Bargle found some artifact laying
>about in an abandoned wizards tower
okay hold on there, so some obviously highly experienced wizard (who
else could get an artifact) decided to abandon his tower for no real
reason, and decided to leave this artifact in the tower???? Come on
now, isn't this just a bit ridiculos?
>that made him 30th,
30th? From 17th?
>>>and what
>>>evil leaders in the world?
>>Well, I'll grant you that that's subjective. But just about any
of
>them. they all listen to advisors at one point or
>another.
okay here are a few off the top of my head . . . Kol - no, Jaggar -
no, Ludwig - obviously not, McGregor - nope. Is there anyone
specifically that you think would help him? Or is this just something
else that won't be explained?
<>Why would they just "know" he has a Staff of the Magi. Who would
even know
a Staff of the Magi well enough to recognize it but a few really
poweful
mages. I doubt Bargle was stupid enough to tell anyone what it was.
If
your players or even other NPC's can recite the magic items owned by
NPC's
maybe the problem isn't in my campaign? :-)<>
Well, first of all, it's actually published in Joshua's Almanac which
is still for sale in Mirros. So, anyone that cares to know, can.
Therefore it's probably not my campagin that is faulty. Maybe you
should take a glance at one of these almanacs or one of the Gaz's. I
mean really, if you are a DM shouldn't you know this stuff???
>Not for his charecter it's not. This isn't Bargle, this is the
master
>of Hule. He is of high level, attempting to reach Immortality in
>Entropy, and has connections with several Immortals from that sphere.
>It's a great plot idea, but not for Bargle.
<>
I'm sorry. Is my vision getting that blurry that I can't
differentiate
NPC's? No, this is MY Bargle. Just because he's not yours won't
hurt my
feelings. So it won't make the timeline, I like it. :-)
<>
This may be your Bargle, but it's definately not THE Bargle in the
Gaz.
We like him and we want to see him
>kick a
>>little ass. So sue us. :-)
We???
<>
We obviously don't see eye to eye on what a 17th level mage who's
very
determined can accomplish.
<>
Maybe you should realize the amount of people who are searching for
Bargle. There is many in search for Stefan's handsome reward. There
is jealous and greedy wizards thirsty for Bargle's powerfull
staff(being one of the most staves in the game). There are goodly
wizards who hate to see someone useing that power for evil purposes.
There are tons of reletives and friends to those that Bargle has
wronged in the past. They are either searching, or maybe hiring
people to search for him. I'm sure the King himself has sent some
small group of adventurers or guards, off to find him. Also, let's
not forget Ludwig, who would love to see Bargle's head on a platter.
>This could happen with a few exceptions. The major Alphation
assault
>was solely on Glantri City. And that was successfully defended.
<>
You still don't grasp it, but yet it's so simple. It happens simply
because the DM says it happens, not because it's written in a book.
Reasons are easy to come by before, during or after. It's not like a
math
test where you have to show your work.
<>
Actually it's exactly like a math test. You should have everything in
your campaign documented. The DM does create the rules for the game
in the end, but you can't just twist and break your own rules to
further the goal of a NPC.
>Then don't use him for it, I never tried to make you, or even asked
you to.
>Mind if I do?
I'm not trying to manipulate your campaign. I'm trying to tell you
about the TSR charecter known as Bargle. If you wish to make a guy
with these plans, and this power . . . go for it, maybe call him
Hargle or something. My point is that if you read up on Bargle, there
is no way he could be what you are making him out to be.
>Cool, and maybe my Bargle will sponsor yours.
yeah sure . . . .
- -tim
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 12:11:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 5
************************* The Dark Ages ***********************
********************* The Age of Rebuilding *******************
**************************** Alphatia *************************
1000 BC: The Broken Lands are overpopulated. Broken Lands
orcs, ogres, trolls, gnolls, and goblins migrate outward,
especially southward, displacing other humanoid tribes before
them. All forces join and raid Rockhome; they are defeated by
dwarven King Blystar III. Minor raids go on for 500 years.
Orcs from the Broken Lands invade and conquer the
region now known as the Five Shires. Their reign is brutal, to
say the least.
Gnolls cross southern Darokin and invade Traldar lands,
destroying their Golden Age. Most of the Darokin humans flee
north, right into orc territory, where few survive. The
Hutaakans retreat to their valley while the Traldar and gnolls
practically annihilate one another. By the time the gnolls
retreat, the Traldar population is 20% of its pre-invasion
amount. Many seafaring Traldar, led by a lesser king named
Milen, flee south across the Sea of Dread, and reach the
southern continent to the east of what would later be called
the Hinterlands. They travel far upriver, and establish a new
kingdom there. (GAZ1)
Elsewhere, nonhuman tribal movements pit tribes of orcs
and goblins against the dwarves.
Gruugrakh gnolls, fleeing their Nithian masters, first
come to the Plain of Fire and settle there.
In the wake of the humanoid invasions, the Immortals
are quite busy selecting endangered cultures for preservation
in the Hollow World. The Traldar and many other cultures are
preserved in this fashion. The Traldar are placed on the coast
of the Aztlan Ocean right where the great equatorial mountains
reach the ocean; they call that body of water the Atlass
Ocean. They're south of the Schattenalfen and north of virgin
territories. They quickly spread out to inhabit all their
mountainous seacoast lands. Not cooperative enough among
themselves to form an empire, they occupy themselves with
pirate raides into Azcan territories. (HW)
The Nithian Empire is at its peak; it is the first
post-Blackmoor empire in the world. It features monumental
architecture, large urban complexes in the delta region of the
River Nithia, conquest of neighboring states, establishment of
more remote colonies, and the development of sophisticated arts
and culture. Colonies are planted in the Makai islands (south
of the Five Shires area), where they conquer the aboriginal
natives. The humans of the Northern Reaches areas are conquered
and enslaved by the Nithian Empire. The Nithians, made curious
about the southern continent by the Traldar flight in that
direction, transport many Northern Reaches slaves to Harbortown
and thence to the southern continent, to colonize there. This
is the southern limit of Nithian expansion, and it isn't very
successful; The Northern Reaches slaves soon rebel and slay
their Nithian overlords. These tribes carve out their own
territory in the southern continent, and are the forefathers of
the Thyatian, Kerendan and Hattian tribes who later found the
empire of Thyatis.
Many Makai are transplanted to the Hollow World to
preserve their culture in the face of Nithian assimilation.
Placed in an archipelago south of the equator, they resume
their carefree, peaceful existence. (HW)
Black explorers from Tangor find and colonize the Pearl
Islands.
Meanwhile, an expedition of Shadow Elves leaves the
City of Stars in an effort to find the path to the surface
world. Instead, they find their way to the Hollow World, where
they are fatally poisoned by the rays of the eternal sun. Some
of them make it back to the City of the Stars with news of
their voyage, but all soon perish. (KW/HW)
On the Alphatians' world, the war between the Followers
of Air and Followers of Flame reaches its zenith. The Followers
of Flame are defeated. Alphaks is banished. Old Alphatia is
destroyed; the Followers of Air come to the Known World to
settle on the great continent they name Alphatia, bringing
along natural strains of wolf and tiger lycanthropy. They
proceed to build a mighty empire based on magic. (DotE)
1000 - 610 BC: Orcs, part of the migration from the
Broken Lands, invade the Five Shires region and enslave the
halflings. The Gentle Folk elves of the Five Shires region
disappear or are destroyed by the orcs. Over a period of four
hundred years, the halflings are conquered and reconquered by
orcs, dwarves, and bandits of different races; eventually they
reclaim their land and establish Shaerdon, a strong nation of
hin.
900 BC: Atruaghin returns to the Hollow World briefly.
He visits the ruins of Quauhnahuac and uses his ever increasing
power to create Atruaghin's Mystic Conveyor, a powerful magical
artifact that links the Known and Hollow Worlds. (KW/HW)
896 BC: First shadow-elf exploration to the surface
world ends in disaster with few survivors.
801 BC: Orcs conquer Shaerdon once more.
800 BC: The ice finally recedes to the north of Glantri.
Elves led by Mealiden Starwatcher leave the Sylvan
Realm via the magical rainbow; they carry nine seedlings of the
tree of life with them. They land in the forested regions of
what would later be called Thyatis, but are driven out by the
warlike humans there, and flee northward. The Callarii clan
settles in Traladara territory; most of the rest settle in a
windy steppes area. Elvish wizards begin to alter those steppes
with their magic, changing the land nearly overnight into
terrain where a mighty forest could flourish. In the process,
they drive orcs from the open lands to the west.
One of the elf-clans, the Shiye, listens to the
guidance of the elf-immortal Eiryndul and makes a dangerous
crossing to the continent of Alphatia, where they set up their
own kingdom in the deep central forests of that continent.
(DotE)
Using the artifact he constructed at Quauhnahuac,
Atruaghin returns from his exploration of the Known and Hollow
Worlds to lead his adopted people in a revolt against the Red
Orcs. The conflict is savage, but in the end the Children of
Atruaghin are successful.
Deep in the southern continent, the Milenians,
descendants of the Traldar, are flourishing, conquering the
surrounding tribes, and establishing a strong empire.
Human clans begin building permanent settlements in
Darokin.
795 BC: Atruaghin recalls the memory of that great
plateau that once stood in the lands of his people. Using
magics and powers that he has acquired from his travels
throughout the Known and Hollow Worlds, he calls it back into
existence that the Children of Atruaghin might never again fear
invasion. Atruaghin, having completed the Path of the Polymath,
becomes an Immortal in the Sphere of Thought in recognition of
his lifelong struggle against entropy.
792 BC: Atzanteotl begins to turn Danel Tigerstripes
against Atruaghin and his followers. Atruaghin sends Hattani
Stoneclaw, leader of the Bear Clan, to prevent his corruption.
The intervention is too late, the Children of the Tiger begin
to worship Atzanteotl and Hattani Stoneclaw becomes an
Immortal.
Second shadow-elf expedition to the surface lands
emerges in the Broken Lands. Failure of this expedition leads
to abandonment of further attempts to reach surface.
744 BC: Hin rise up against their orcish overlords;
the Time of Heroes begins.
700 BC: Thanatos, Immortal of the Sphere of Entropy,
helped by the Immortal Ranivorus, corrupts the pharaoh of the
Nithians. The pharaoh turns the Nithian empire toward worship
of Entropy.
The Nithian colonists in Thothia turn away from the
Entropic faith of their homeland and increasingly turn to a new
form of mysticism.
Nithians arrive on the Savage Coast. They interbreed
somewhat with Oltecs. Elves of the eastern coast establish
settlements in and around what will eventually become Torreon
and Narvaez. (RS)
Mealiden is acclaimed king of Alfheim.
610 BC: Inspired by the example of Atruaghin and his
people some two centuries before, the Hin revolt against the
humanoids and reclaim their place as an independent state. The
modern Five Shires are born.
609 BC: The Restoration of the hin nation; Gunzuth the
Clanless becomes the first (and last) Sheriff of the reunited
Shaerdon.
600 BC: Three warrior-tribes from the southern
continent (the Thyatians, Kerendans, and Hattians),
hard-pressed by the Milenians to the south, migrate to the
northern continent.
572 BC: The hin formally organize their land into five
semiautonomous Shires, each ruled by an elected Sheriff.
572 BC: Gunzuth dies, splitting the rule of Shaerdon
among his five sons; the Five Shires are founded.
556 BC: A boy named Yav is born to an elven mother and
a Tanagoro father in the Serpent Peninsula. He is the
strongest seer yet known in the area, and his many timely
warnings of hurricanes and other disasters make him a hero.
529 BC: A series of abuses by the Serpent Peninsula
seers cause a major revolt. Elven purists slaughter every seer
they can find. Some take more extreme measures, killing people
of mixed elven and human blood regardless of their
precognitive abilities. The unrest ends with the power of the
seers broken and the Sheyallia elves fleeing the wrath of the
Tanagoro people. Yav vanishes; it is thought the elves killed
him.
528 BC: 3,000 Sheyallia elves fleeing from the Serpent
Peninsula stumble into the Plain of Fire and discover the
intricate networks of caves and tunnels beneath. The settle,
war with the gnolls, and eventually cooperate with them.
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V1 #256
*****************************
mystara-digest Wednesday, 9 October 1996 Volume 01 : Number 257
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 12:17:51 -0400 (EST)
Subject: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 9
700 AC: Warfare intensifies between Alphatian and
Thyatian colonies in Ylaruam.
The Immortal Korotiku adds hin (halfling) and human
pirates from the Ierendi islands to the area he calls the
Merry Pirate Seas. (HW)
Gregus Verdier is assassinated.
Doriath, a former adventurer, assumes the throne of
Alfheim. The Erewan faction of Erendyl clan leaves Alfheim for
Glantri.
Largest orc horde in modern history defeated in the
Five Shires.
Rajah Narenda establishes Gola Keep to encourage
desert trading caravans to enter the Asanda Plain via Jhengal.
His generous trade agreements with Slagovich bring fabulous
trade and wealth to Jhengal. The Rajah also marries his first
wife, Drisana, who bears him a son the next year.
703 AC: Rajah Narenda's forces conquer Baratpur,
bringing Baratkand under Sindrastani control. The rajah
assumes the title Rajadhiraja, allows the former rajah of
Baratkand to retain his title and some governmental
privileges, and places Rajah Javis Nandin on the throne of
Jhengal.
704 AC: Still resistant to being conquered by force,
both Putnabad and Jalawar agree to unite with Sindrastan (and
pay annual taxes and tribute to Rajadhiraja Narenda ul Nervi)
in return for sharing the benefits of trade with Slagovich.
The ruling Jadugeryas of Jaibul reach an agreement with the
rajadhiraja, allowing them independence in return for promises
not to interfere with Sindhi affairs, and to allow caravans
traveling through the Barren Plain to pass through Jaibul to
Putnabad.
705 AC: The Rajadhiraja turns his attention northward,
his eyes on the fertile lands of Nagpuri. Within six months,
the rajah of Nagpuri swears fealty to Rajadhiraja Narenda ul
Nervi. The deal is sealed with the marriage between the
Rajadhiraja and Kumuda, the rajah's daughter.
706 - 713 AC: Bloody wars to control Kadesh and Gunjab
nearly exhaust the Rajadhiraja's resources. In AC 712,
Raneshwar falls to Narenda's troops. The next year, Kadesh
agrees to unite with lower Sind, provided the Rajah of Kadesh
retains his rulership under the new title of Maharajah (Great
King), just as the Rajah of Gunjab was allowed the year
before. The Maharajah of Kadesh also betroths his infant
daughter to the Rajadhiraja's twelve-year-old son.
707 AC: Heldann the Brave unifies independent petty
kingdoms, names this northern land Heldannic Freeholds.
709 AC: In Laterre (an alternate world), Michel
d'Ambreville, leader of the d'Ambreville family, dies in
battle; his wife Camille assumes control of the family.
710 AC: Heldann the Brave breaks the back of the
trolls' nation, is poisoned.
713 AC: The Ierendi Navy destroys a Thyatian naval
patrol. The Royal Navy achieves instant preeminence among the
powers of the Known World.
714 AC: Rajadhiraja Narenda ul Nervi announces the
total unification of the Kingdom of Sind with the treaty
reached between Sindrastan and Peshmir. Rajah Ravi
Prabhapravitha of Peshmir assumes the title of Maharajah.
Mandara, the maharajah's eldest daughter, becomes the
Rajadhiraja's third wife.
717 AC: The Rajadhiraja charges Jahore and its ruling
families with the task of building a Sindhi Navy. The first
problem is to find suitable timber; most bust be imported from
eastern lands.
722 AC: In Graakhalia, a rebellion by some of the
Sylvan Lands immigrants is quickly put down, and the leaders
executed.
723 AC: Santhral II dies, ending the reign of the
Darokin Kings. The nation breaks down into independent dominions
ruled by whoever can afford to pay troops to keep the roads
passable.
725 AC: In Laterre, King Hber the Kind of Averoigne
begins investigating the rumors of witchcraft in the
d'Ambreville family.
726 AC: The newly-completed Sindhi navy of four
merchant vessels and a war galley mysteriously sinks in
Jaibul's outer harbor shortly after returning from their
maiden voyage to Tanakumba. The rajah of Putnabad suspects
sabotage on the part of foreign merchants jealous of their own
lucrative positions as middlemen in the trade between the
eastern and western lands.
728 AC: The Alphatian colonies in Ylaruam destroy the
Thyatian colonies there; Thyatian colonists flee.
In Laterre, tienne d'Ambreville creates a magical
gate, enabling the d'Ambrevilles and their dependents to leave
the world of Laterre. Marcel killed in rearuard action;
Marie-Hlne badly injured but survives.
The d'Ambrevilles and their vassals arrive in Mystara
from Old Averoigne in another dimension, establishing a
French-like culture in the wooded valleys of northwestern
Glantri. They are made welcome by the Flaems of Braejr and
found their own dominion, Nouvelle Averoigne.
730 AC: Settlers come to Glantri, including fair elves
(descendants of the elves who fled the area in 1700 BC) and
humans from Traladara and Thyatian colonies in Ylaruam.
Frictions begin between the Flaems and settlers.
733 AC: Camille, increasingly erratic, abandons her
duties as leader of the House d'Ambreville. After a Fractious
family council, Etienne becomes leader of the family.
735 AC: The elderly Narenda ul Nervi dies in his
sleep. His son, Kistna, proves a just and capable Rajadhiraja.
Andr-David de Fort appointed Huntsman of Nouvelle
Averoigne.
738 AC: The king of Braejr, following the advice of
Etienne d'Ambreville, institutes an official policy of
welcoming and integrating the settlers. His subordinates
follow an unofficial policy of making life unpleasant for the
settlers. Frictions build.
747 AC: The Braejr Council of Lords outlaws clerical
teaching and clerical magic, upon penalty of death.
748 AC: The merrow of the Sunlit Sea agree to help the
Ierendi Navy in return for Ierendi agreeing to protect sacred
merrow shrines from pirate plunder.
750 AC: A distant descendent of Yav leads the People
of Yav on the road to the prosperous Yavdlom civilization.
The Great Burning: Flaems burn threescore captured
clerics - all of them of Thyatian or Traladaran descent.
754 AC: A second Great Burning is interrupted by
maddened mobs. Armed revolt erupts in many of the small
Thyatian and Traladaran communities. The army of Braejr
ruthlessly suppresses the rebellion. Most of the able-bodied
men of Thyatian and Traladaran descent are killed.
758 AC: Yav becomes an Immortal.
775 AC: King of Ierendi becomes an elected position
after a rebellion against the Council of Lords.
776 AC: Rajadhiraja Kistna ul Nervi dies of a fever
after reigning for four decades. His strong rulership cemented
Sind's unification. A grandson, Hansh ul Nervi, succeeds
Kistna as Rajadhiraja.
784 AC: A third-generation Thyatian settler kills a
Flaemish lord. Flaemish forces attack his village. War erupts
again between Thyatians and Flaemish.
784 - 788 AC: The Followers of Flame (the Flaemish) war
with other settlers in Glantri. With defeat come the executions
of Flaemish lycanthropes who fought against the elven and
Thyatian settlers.
785 AC: Battle of Braejr; the settlers are driven south
of the Vesubia by the Flaemish.
786 AC: An Alphatian wizard named Halzunthram the Free
Sword arrives in Flaemish lands and helps the humans and elves
there against the Flaems, organizing the settlers into an
efficient fighting force.
788 AC: The settlers defeat the Flaemish at the Battle
of Braastar. Halzunthram captures the council and declares this
land to be a protectorate of Alphatia; war breaks out again.
The elves become independent and the Flaemish revolt. Many
Flaemish lycanthropes fight and die in the ensuing rebellion.
Beginning of the "Forty Years Without Peace."
790 AC: Ierendi's Council of Citizens is formed.
793 AC: Rajadhiraja Hansh ul Nervi is found dead after
eating a poisoned fig. His son Ramanan takes the throne.
800 AC: Birth of Suleiman Al-Kalim, a great
philosopher and warlord of the desert nomads of Ylaruam.
Orcwars. Desperate Broken Lands hordes ravage
neighboring nations for food, treasure, or shelter. Caravans
systematically plundered. Cities torched. Agitation in Darokin.
Devilfish appear in the Sunlit Sea. War breaks out
between them and Undersea, characterized by localized
skirmishes and terrorist attacks by the devilfish.
802 AC: A gold rush in Glantri brings many Rockhome
dwarves into that nation. A plague sent by the orcish Immortal
Yagrai spreads into Glantri, and the Glantrians are convinced
that the dwarves are responsible, resulting in a vicious war on
the dwarfs by the people of Glantri. Lycanthropes seem
peculiarly susceptible to the plague - few werecreatures
survive.
805 AC: Dwarves fleeing the anti-dwarf policies of
Glantri establish small communities in the mountains of
Nagpuri, Gunjab, and Peshmir.
808 AC: The Order of Vanya is founded in Hattias by
priests banned from the Thyatian Storm Soldiers.
812 AC: Rajadhiraja Ramanan ul Nervi dies after eating
a bowl of figs. His eldest son, Kulpakh, assumes the throne,
claiming his father's death is the result of Immortal justice.
Within a week, Kulpakh begins issuing bizarre proclamations -
exhorting the Jadugeryas to find a way to make it snow in the
Great Waste, proclaiming all Rishiyas to be vampires feeding
on the people of Sind, and insisting all animals be set free
of their bondage and not asked to do man's work. Within a
month, Kulpakh dies when a ceremonial elephant freed to wander
the streets runs amok and tramples him. Kulpakh's brother
Balin, barely in his twenties, takes the throne.
814 AC: A massive Schattenalfen invasion of the Azcan
empire is turned back at the Battle of Huixtla. (HW)
815 AC: The Azcan attempt to carry the war onto the
Schattenalfen lands ends in ambush and disaster at the Battle
of Wondyviel. (HW)
825 AC: Al-Kalim captures the village of Ylaruam and
establishes it as his tribal seat.
826 AC: Al-Kalim captures Cinsa-Men-Noo, Parsa, and
Cresiphon, and unites the Makistani and Alasiyan tribes under
the banner of the Eternal Truth.
827 AC: Campaign against Alphatian overlords in Ylaruam
ends with successful siege of Jaboor, removing Alphatian
presence in the region.
828 AC: Lord Alexander Glantri, of Thyatian descent,
captures Halzunthram and confirms the land's independence from
Alphatia. The population names the land Glantri in his honor.
The Forty Years War ends.
Principalities of Glantri expel all dwarves, some of
whom migrate to Darokin. They depart on Minrothad ships to join
the craftsmen of the Minrothad Isles; they settle on Fortress
Island.
829 AC: Lord Glantri founds the Republic of Glantri and
reforms the Council of Lords into the Council of Princes.
830 AC: The Ylaruam campaign against the Thyatian
overlords ends with the successful siege of Tameronikas,
driving Thyatian influence from the region.
831 AC: Founding of the Confederated Tribes of the
Emirates of Ylaruam.
832 AC: Rajadhiraja Balin ul Nervi drowns in the
Asanda's flood waters while trying to rescue a child caught in
the churning river. His eighteen-year-old daughter (and only
heir) Nitara ul Nervi claims the throne of Sind and the title
of Ranidhiraja. After a rocky start - plagued with
assassinations and failed coups - her rule stabilizes into
fifty years of peace and prosperity.
835 AC: Suleiman Al-Kalim's pilgrimage to the
Immortals. Al-Kalim begins quest on the Path of the Dynast.
841 AC: The dwarven port of Stronghold is established
on Fortress Island in Minrothad.
845 AC: Under Etienne's guidance, construction begins
on the School of Magic in Glantri. Richard and Isidore
appointed Werewolf Executioners of Nouvelle Averoigne.
846 AC: Orc horde from the Broken Lands loots
Ardelphia, utterly destroying the city.
850 AC: In Glantri, Richard and Isidore become
werewolves.
850 - 862 AC: The Council of Minrothad refines
government structure and establishes office of ruling guild
master. The first ruling guild master, Missan Meditor, is
appointed. Severe laws restricting immigration are passed.
855 AC: Suleiman Al-Kalim composes the Nahmeh, an
important work of Ylari religious thought.
858 AC: The Light of Rad, a cadre of Glantrian
leaders, proclaims nobility limited to wizards only and
declares that Council members gain the hereditary title of
Prince. The Republic of Glantri is decreed the Principalities
of Glantri.
Establishment of the Eternal University and Council of
Preceptors in Ylaruam.
859 AC: Illegal Glantrian nobles are expelled and the
wizards crush a minor rebellion.
860 AC: Suleiman Al-Kalim retires from public life.
867 AC: "King of Ierendi" becomes a ceremonial title;
kingship becomes the reward of the annual Crown Tourney.
875 AC: Construction is completed on the School of
Magic. Etienne d'Ambreville becomes its first Grand Master.
880 AC: Fire Island is declared off limits to all
shipping. The Minrothad thieves' guild secretly establishes
Cove Haven as a pirate base on this island.
882 AC: Ranidhiraja Nitara ul Nervi abdicates the
throne of Sind in favor of her grandson, Anandarun ul Nervi.
Nitara then embarks on a ship bound for Alphatia, ostensibly
to tour Floating Ar and other wonders of the world. She
doesn't return.
889 AC: Rajadhiraja Anandarun ul Nervi is assassinated,
leaving no heirs. Those close to him suspect the rajah of
Nagpuri, but can present no proof. Vadin, Kulpakh ul Nervi's
great-grandson, seizes the throne.
890 AC: Ruling Minrothad guild master Kitrina Meditor
passes Isolation Act prohibiting immigration and most visitors
to Minrothad.
896 AC: Etienne d'Ambreville is confirmed as a new
prince, and Nouvelle Averoigne as his principality. Sire Henri
and Catharine assassinate him. Etienne's magic exacts revenge,
killing them and sending Chateay d'Ambreville into a deadly
dimension from which no one can escape. The Council of Princes
forbids new settlement in the abandoned lands, lest the same
fate befall others.
897 AC: The Srinivasans of Sandapur petition
Rajadhiraja Vadin ul Nervi to allow them to secede from
Nandin-ruled Jhengal, claiming incompetence on the part of the
rajah of Jhengal. Amid rumors of graft, bribery, and
corruption, the Rajadhiraja orders Jhengal divided into East
Jhengal (named Azadgal by its new rajah) and West Jhengal
(stubbornly called "Jhengal" by its inhabitants).
898 AC: New immigration wave to Glantri. The population
mixes freely, and frictions decrease.
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 12:10:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 4
*********************** The Rise of Nithia ********************
*************** Middle Bronze to Middle Iron Ages *************
2000 BC: The Beastmen have now evolved into the modern
species of orcs, goblins, ogres, giants, and trolls. (GAZ10)
The Ethengars arrive on the fertile lands of the
Steppes. (GAZ?)
First human settlements in the coastal and island
lowlands of the Northern Reaches. (GAZ7)
Elven and human mages settle in the forests of the
western Savage Coast, supplanting aranea; they name their land
Herath. Enduks are created on the Orc's Head Peninsula and
begin building the civilization of Nimmur. (RS)
2000 - 1750 BC: An agricultural settlement flourishes
along the River Nithia. It swiftly becomes the seat of a
fast-growing culture.
Tribal humans, swarthy descendants of Oltec and Neathar
tribes, also settle in the coastal and island lowlands of the
Northern Reaches, in the Ethengar Steppes. (GAZ?)
Antalian colonists migrate southward into the lands
later to be called the Northern Reaches. (GAZ7)
1900 BC: On the great continent to the east of Alphatia
and Bellissaria, a nomadic, cavalry-based race of warriors
grows strong. These are the Jennites, copper-skinned
descendants of an Oltec expeditionary party; their language and
customs have evolved far away from their Oltec origins. (DotE)
1800 BC: The dwarfish race on the Known World is
slowly, inevitably dying out. The Immortal called Kagyar the
Artisan takes all remaining dwarves in the Known World. Half he
transplants to the Hollow World, and half he reshapes into a
new dwarven race. Now there are no remnants of the original
dwarven race on the outer world. Some of the "new dwarves" are
returned to the Northern Reaches, where the largest dwarf
colonies had been, and eventually become the Modrigswerg clans;
others are planted in the Rockhome region. Both groups are
given false memories and believe that the Modrigswerg dwarves
also originally lived in the Rockhome lands. (GAZ6)
The dwarves transplanted to the Hollow World, who
mostly belong to the Kogolor clans, thrive in their new lands.
They have been placed in easter mountains just north of the
great equatorial mountain range, fairly distant from other
sentient races; they have occasional contact with the Neathar
tribes to the north and west, but are largely left to their
own devices. (HW)
In the Sylvan Realm, Ilsundal creates the first elvish
Tree of Life and becomes an Immortal. (GAZ5)
The Steel Wars divide the humanoid tribes. Plague,
famine, and massacres ravage Urzud, and the population
dwindles. (GAZ10)
1750 BC: The earthquakes that rock the Sea of Dread
drastically change the Serpent Peninsula. The Tanagoro culture
collapses into warring tribes. They tear the original
Atruaghin Plateau from the mainland, forming the Ierendi
islands.
Copper-skinned people fleeing the earthquakes that
destroyed the original Atruaghin Plateau join light-skinned
Urduk tribesmen, descendants of the Neathar tribesmen, in the
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Great Waste.
Elsewhere, a series of great volcanic eruptions and
earthquakes split several large land masses away from what is
now the Five Shires and Atruaghin Clans area; aboriginal
(Neathar-descended) peoples called the Makai and lizardmen
called Malpheggi are stranded on the new islands. The Taymora
civilization is destroyed. The plateau under which the
surviving Azcans have been living largely collapses, killing
many of them and leaving the survivors in a shattered, hostile
land. (GAZ4,GAZ14)
1750 - 1500 BC: The human tribes along the River Nithia
progress from Bronze Age to Iron Age metals technology. A
jackal-headed creature named Pflarr achieves Immortality.
Meditor elves are stranded on the newly formed
Minrothad Isles.
1725 BC: King Loark of the humanoids organizes an army
of humanoids known as the Great Horde. They migrate
southeastward into the lands of men, ravaging as they go,
continuing Loark's Quest for a Blue Knife. Great waves of hill
goblins, trolls, and giants especially begin moving southward
into areas now occupied by human settlers. (GAZ14)
1722 BC: The Great Horde of King Loark ravages Norwold
and learns Norse culture, sending the Antalian culture there
into a dark age; the Immortals Odin and Thor send intact
communities of Antalians into the Hollow World. (The
descendants of the outer-world Antalians eventually become the
men of the Heldann Freeholds.)
The Immortals Odin and Thor have sent whole Antalian
tribes into the Hollow World, placing them in icy lands south
and east of the Beastman territories. The Antalians thrive in
their new home, happily fighting among themselves, with the
Beastmen to the north and with the Neathar tribes to the
southwest. (HW)
1720 BC: Akilla-Khan conquers the southern steppes of
Ethengar.
1711 BC: Great Horde reaches pre-khanate Ethengar.
Akilla-Khan allies with King Loark against the Ethengarian
nomads.
1710 BC: The Great Horde of King Loark invades the
Ethengar Steppes and enslaves the primitive Ethengars. King
Loark's horde is joined by Akilla-Khan's humanoid horde.
Together they ravage the steppes.
1709 BC: Akilla-Khan betrays King Loark in exchange for
lands west of the Dol-Anur. The Great Horde is defeated at the
Battle of Chongor, in ancient Ethengar. King Loark's Great
Horde splinters; the trolls head east, the goblins south, and
the rest of the Great Horde is driven out of the steppes into
the Broken Lands and settles there. (GAZ14)
******************* The Glantrian Catastrophe *****************
1700 BC: The elves of Glantri discover, in the Broken
Lands, a strange artifact from the lost Blackmoor civilization.
They tinker with it, and the artifact explodes cataclysmically,
sending impenetrable clouds into the sky (which last for
years), and spreading a strange rotting plague among the
surviving elves - those who were far enough away to survive.
The elves shelter themselves in the deepest caves of Glantri.
They find an incredible series of caverns there and begin a
years-long migration. The traveling tribes are separated from
one another. These are the ancestors of the Hollow World's
Gentle Folk, Icevale Elves, and the Schattenalfen. A fourth
group, led by an elf named Atziann, has no survivors save that
king. Some emerge, years later, hundreds of miles south, past
the Broken lands. Some perish.
The catastrophe forms the Land of the Black Sand in the
Ethengar Steppes.
The local cataclysm rakes the Broken Lands and buries
the Great Horde. King Loark dies, and his horde breaks apart.
Giants, and trolls are driven south into the Northern Reaches
in successive waves of migration.
Goblinoids settle in the Yazak Steppes. (RS)
1691 BC: Baka betrays Akilla-Khan and drives his
humanoids into the Broken Lands.
1690 BC: Akilla-Khan builds a fortress in the Broken
Lands, and starts raiding Glantri and Ethengar borders.
1688 BC: Akilla-Khan retires from the world and becomes
an Immortal, taking the name of Yagrai. Unaware of the truth,
Ethengarians rejoice. Baka declared Khan of all Ethengars.
1681 BC: Baka Khan is poisoned. The Ethengars war over
his successor. The War of Succession starts.
1680 BC: Land masses split further, forming 10 islands
south of the Five Shires.
Verdier elves build ships and join their cousins, the
Meditor clan, in the Sea of Dread.
1675 BC: Tahkati Stormtamer unites the tribes that are
now known as the Children of the Horse and leads them in
conquest of the other tribes that now make up the Atruaghin
Clans. Eventually, he becomes an Immortal. (GAZ14)
1650 BC: A surviving clan of Glantrian elves from the
outer world finds its way to the Hollow World through
thousands of miles of subterranean passages. The tribe emerges
in lands thickly occupied by hostile Neathar tribes and
dinosaurs; they migrate northward, to lands similar to frozen
Glantri, and settle in the mountains south of the Beastmen and
west of the Antalians. They call their new land Icevale. (HW)
Atziann, king and sole survivor of a clan of Glantri
elves who had been driven underground, comes across the Hollow
World Azcans, emerging near Chitlacan. Fascinated by these
people, he spends several years among them (in disguise) and
studying their ways before leaving to pursue his dream of
Immortality. (HW)
1600 BC: Tensions erupt between the two largest Jennite
hordes: One horde, the more traditional of the two, has woman
warriors, while the other has virtually enslaved its women. The
Immortal Tarastia enjoins the more traditional horde to conquer
the other, but the resulting holy war all but destroys Jennite
civilization. (By the time the Alphatians reach the Known
World, six centuries later, the outer-world Jennites have
regressed to stone-age barbarism, their previous glory all but
forgotten.)
The Immortal Tarastia preserves several clans of the
self-destructing Jennite culture, choosing to save only the
more traditional horde. She transfers them to the Hollow
World, placing them in the southern hemisphere, south of the
forests and plains occupied by the tanagoro tribesmen. The
Jennites begin a fierce rivalry and occastional warfare with
the Tanagoro men. (HW)
1500 BC: Nithian culture begins its climb to greatness.
One colonial expedition led by the Nithian Traldar clan travels
to the lands now known as Karameikos. As these colonies spread
out, they become the first humans to inhabit Darokin. (GAZ1)
The Immortal Pflarr creates a jackal-headed
servitor-race he calls the Hutaaka. He uses many of them as
agents, heralds, and servants throughout the known world; he
plants a large colony of them in mountains south of the
Nithians.
Modest Bronze Age human cultures in the eastern
lowlands of the Northern Reaches.
Sophisticated gnomish and dwarven cultures co-exist
with primitive giantish clans in the western uplands of the
Northern Reaches.
The elf Atziann attains Immortality and adopts the
Azcan form of his name, Atzanteotl, "Atziann the Divine." He
begins whispering to selected Shadow Elves and Azcan rulers of
the power and glory he can bring them, and lures them away
from their faiths. Increasing numbers of Shadow Elves
(especially those of the Schattenalfen clan) turn from the
worship of Rafiel to that of Atzanteotl; likewise, many Azcans
turn away from Otzitiotl and Kalaktatla. Only Atruatzin, the
Azcan priest-king, who would later become Atruaghin, resists
the Immortal. (HW/GAZ14)
A group of halflings pause in their northward
migration at Thanegia Island. Dismayed by the unrest in the
land, they quickly move on.
On the Alphatians' world, the civilization has achieved
total mastery of its environment; the great universities are at
the peak of their powers and just beginning to indulge in
serious scholastic competitions and squabbles. (DotE)
1494 BC: A terrible plague strikes Chitlacan, killing
almost two thirds of its population. Atruatzin, himself a
survivor of the disease, and his most faithful followers are
driven out of Chitlacan by his philosophical and political
rivals (who follow Atzanteotl). They settle in the fortress of
Quauhnahuac. (HW/GAZ14)
1484 BC: Driven by the whispers of Atzanteotl, and his
own fear that Atruatzin might reclaim the throne, the
treacherous Azcan usurper leads an massive assault on
Quaunahuac. Everyone found in the fortress is slain or
sacrificed, but there is no trace of Atruatzin or his inner
circle. The priests curse the land on which Quauhnahuac is
built, and sow salt among the ruins. (HW/GAZ14)
1470 BC: The Chochomecs (an Azcan tribe) desert
Atacalpa, migrating to Oltec lands of the east. (HW)
1468 BC: Atruatzin and his loyal companions find a
resting-place, where they establish a temple to the old gods.
They name it Mictlan, the "Land of the Dead." (HW)
1420 BC: The underground elven wanderers stumble upon
Mictlan, and overthrow the humans. Those elves who have been
seduced by Atzanteotl declare that the temple is sacred to him,
and he has given them victory over their enemies and a place to
call home. These elves become the Schattenalfen. Most of the
elves are uneasy about this alien Immortal, but they are weary,
and so they settle and build the city of Aengmor. All of
Atruatzin's followers are slain; he alone escapes. (HW)
1410 BC: Atruatzin reaches the surface world in his
quest for meaning in his life. He finds the lost descendants of
the surface world Azcans and Oltecs living in the shattered
lands north of the Sea of Dread.
1400 BC: Within a few generations, the Traldar settlers
have suffered enormous population losses (through bad winters,
animal attacks, and disease), have lost most of the materials
and time necessary to forge metal (and consequently have
forgotten how), and have reverted to a pre-agrarian lifestyle.
They now fall under the domination of the Hutaaka humanoid
people from the northern mountainous region. (GAZ1)
Denwarf, golem-like leader of the Known World's
dwarves, settles his people in the great cavern called Dengar
and disappears into the lower caverns.
A colonizing party of Shadow Elves, mostly Schattenalf
followers of Atzanteotl are driven out of Aengmor (by the will
of their patron). Retracing an earlier lost expedition's
path to the Hollow World, they emerge just north of the great
equatorial mountain range, right in the middle of the Kogolor
Dwarf territory. They immediately begin a war against the
dwarves, whose lands they want. The Immortal Kagyar causes
Denwarf, the former leader of the Outer World's dwarves, to
help the Kogolors against the Shadow Elves. (HW)
Atruatzin, who now calls himself Atruaghin, unites the
warring tribes he lives among. His skill as a warrior and
leader makes this a challenging, but not impossible task. The
newly unified people begin to call themselves the Children of
Atruaghin - the outside world calls them the Atruaghin Clans.
1395 BC: The Schattenalfen are badly beaten by the
Kogolor dwarves and must break off the war. They continue
travelling west, to an area not infested with dwarves, and
settle there. But due north of their new lands are the Azcans,
whose culture and architecture are disturbingly and
insultingly like theirs (a result of Atzanteotl's guidance of
the Schattenalf culture, though they don't know this); the
Schattenalfen hate these people, whom they see as a mockery of
their culture, and begin an ages-long war with the Azcans. (HW)
Kagyar places Denwarf in a state of suspended
animation, transferring him to a cavern deep beneath the
Dengar caverns of Rockhome.
1310 BC: Quest for Steel; Wogar Tribe migrates west
from Blackmoor to a great lake, called the Cradle.
1305 BC: Prophecy from King Wogar's Great Shaman; Wogar
Tribe moves south, along a major river, following the Great
Shaman's floating gri-gri.
1300 BC: The halflings from the southern continent,
long-abandoned by their friends the elves, and increasingly
endangered by the ever-growing human population, make a mass
naval migration to the northern continent. They settle the area
later called the Five Shires, which they name Faerdinel. They
become friends with a declining, pacifistic clan of elves
called the Gentle Folk.
In the Savage Coast, goblinoid hordes decimate elven
and Oltec civilization. Those humans and elves who remain fall
to a savage, semi-nomadic existence. (RS)
1299 BC: Vestland trolls miss a turn and pop-up in
Broken Lands. Trollhattan is founded. Bagni Gullymaw eats an
elephant. Nithia enslaves the Black Moon horde of trolls.
1296 BC: Ogres kill King Wogar's Great Shaman at the
Battle of Khuzud, and flee with his treasure. They settle in
the Sind Desert and learn local culture.
1290 BC: The outer-world Shadow Elf city of Aengmor is
"destroyed" (actually, merely surrounded by lava and made
uninhabitable) during a volcanic eruption; many Schattenalfen
escape, burrowing deeper into the crust of the earth. Actually,
this is part of a grand scheme of Atzanteotl, their patron.
1270 BC: Great Drought dries up the ogres' wells in
Sind. The ogres migrate east, devastating and enslaving Sind
villages.
A great goblin horde lead by Wogar drives through Hule.
They ravage the land, slaughtering many people and enslaving
the others. Their reign of terror ends when Hosadus, a young
holy man, convinces the horde's leaders that the sacred blue
knife they seek lies to the east, beyond the Black Mountains -
beyond even the Great Waste. Wogar and most of his horde move
on, spurred by the unexpected revelation. The remainder stays
in Hule as followers of Hosadus.
1269 BC: Ogres settle in Broken Lands. They found
Ogremoor.
1265 BC: Ahmanni Turtlerider and Atruaghin become
lovers. Atruaghin's ageless nature becomes apparent, making
marriage between them impossible.
1263 BC: Wogar becomes an Immortal. His tribe continues
along the coast to Atruaghin. They learn the use of feathers,
war paints, light cavalry tactics, and scalping.
1262 BC: A small band of Urduk explorers from Sindh
stumbles upon the ancient city of the Karimari, and convinces
them to reduce their isolationism.
1260 BC: Atruaghin leaves the Atruaghin Clans to
explore the surface world in a search for the nature of his
seemingly eternal youth. He appoints new chiefs to each of the
Clans and establishes the Words of Atruaghin that his people
live by to this day.
1259 BC: Tahkati Stormtamer, now an Immortal, agrees to
help Atzanteotl in destroying the work that Atruaghin has done
in uniting the Atruaghin Clans.
1257 BC: Wogar Tribe, Red Orcs, conquers and enslaves
the people of the Atruaghin Clans. Their rule is oppressive and
savage. Tahkati Stormtamer realizes that he has been betrayed
by Atzanteotl and breaks all ties with the Immortals of
Entropy. He vows vengeance.
1254 BC: Wogar Tribe splits into three nations. One
settles south of Atruaghin, another in the Five Shires. The
last goes north, and torches a trading post called Akorros,
then moves to central Broken Lands.
1190 BC: Descendants of the Great Horde resurface in
the Broken Lands. The Tribes meet again and discover the Rock
of Oenkmar and a knife they mistake for one of their legendary
artifacts. End of the Quest for a Blue Knife. Truce proclaimed.
1104 BC: Underground elves discover the Refuge of Stone
and take the name of shadow elves unto themselves. Building
work begins on the City of Stars. Myfallar The Old is chosen as
temporary King.
1100 BC: Nithians lead by Minroth colonize the islands
later to be called the Minrothad islands, and found Harbortown.
Nithians under Prince Ramenhotep establish the colony
of Thothia on the Isle of Dawn. This is the eastern extent of
Nithian colonization.
1090 BC: On the Alphatians' world, the Followers of
Flame begin their serious rivalry with the Followers of Air.
(DotE)
1050 BC: Great wizards of the Nithians, inspired by the
Immortal Pflarr's servant race (the Hutaaka), create the gnoll
race by magically blending trolls and gnomes. But they've been
deluded that the results might be an equivalent servant-race
for the Nithians; instead, the gnolls turn out to be savage,
strong, warlike, and prolific. They rebel; they escape and
later invade Karameikos. Nithian priests visit the Shamans of
Oenkmar. Atzanteotl is increasingly offended.
1040 BC: Tarasfir is enthroned as the first King of the
Shadow Elves selected by the shamans of Rafiel.
1027 BC: On the Alphatians' world, sporadic violence
breaks out between the Followers of Flame and Followers of
Air. (DotE)
1010 BC: On the Alphatians' world, a temporary peace
results from one academian's proposal of the Flame vs. Air
essay debate. (DotE)
1009 BC: On the Alphatians' world, Emperor Alphaks I
arbitrarily declares the Flames to have won the debate.
Outrage, protest, rebellion and revolt result; the Followers of
Flame war with the Followers of Air. (DotE)
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 20:25:07 -0400 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Time Immortals
> Well, I point out the Immortal Yav. His whole history (in CoM boxed
> set) shows his little escapades through time (though he didn't plan it
> that way).
<grin> Very true.. but since we already know about all his little jumps
through time, it's not as much fun to try to make some more up..
> Oh, and TSR took the easy way out in the WotI by saying that further
> events can change what happened and what the Immortal experienced may
> never happen...which could explain a lot.
True, but... for all the Immortals we know of, all their jumps through
time actually "happened" in Mystaran history. For example, I believe
Calitha Starbrow has aided Minrothad several times.
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V1 #257
*****************************
mystara-digest Thursday, 10 October 1996 Volume 01 : Number 258
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Roundhouse <Roundhouse@mms.net>
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 18:41:28 -0400
Subject: [Mystara] WotI--Ideas wanted
Hello. I'm fairly new to the group and wanted to introduce myself and see if
anyone has any ideas to help me with the campaign I just started.
I'm running the Wra
- --
I've done the math and Galileo was wrong. The world doesn't revolve around
the sun, it revolves around me.
Daniel J. Macchia
Roundhouse@mms.net
------------------------------
From: Kaviyd@AOL.com
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 22:35:54 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Time Immortals
In a message dated 96-10-09 16:16:26 EDT, dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca (Daniel
Boese) writes:
<< The question is, When did/do/will these pre-Immortals show up?>>
I certainly see possibilities here. Yav is another Immortal whose time
travels are well documented. However, candidates for Immortality in
the Sphere of Time do not necessarily travel into the future -- they
travel into a possible future that may or may not actually occur. So,
while it is certainly possible for these Immortal candidates to show up
at various times, it is not necessary that they do so.
<<Another interesting question.. since these pre-Immortals coming to the
future have succeeded on their quests, and are currently Immortals.. can
their Immortal forms "pull a paradox" and aid their earlier selves? After
all, Khoronus has (probably) set a precedent, since he's (probably) his
own patron.. :) >>
An even nastier possibility would be for Immortals to take actions that would
prevent the ascensions of their rivals. But I suspect that one of the
benefits
of achieving Immortality is that no Immortal can be "paradoxed" out of
existence -- if somebody alters the past so that an Immortal candidate
fails to achieve Immortality, the new Immortal still appears at the proper
time, albeit without a past that any mortal remembers. I once suggested
this possibility to explain all those Immortals who have no memories of their
mortal lives.
------------------------------
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 23:04:05 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] WotI--Ideas wanted
In a message dated 96-10-09 21:50:09 EDT, Roundhouse@mms.net (Roundhouse)
writes:
<< If she never thinks to try and get Serraine involved everything is
fine, but otherwise I want to do something besides having them flatly refuse
to fight. >>
Well, in a war of this nature the smartest thing for Serraine to do would be
to stay well away from the fighting. But if you really want to get Serraine
involved, all you have to do is have the Alphatians or the Heldanners attack
the city with the intent of using it as a base in the war. If the attackers
win,
then Serraine is occupied -- and your Pegataur may want to help the
resistance and/or seek help from the other side. If the attackers lose,
then Serraine is committed to the war against whoever attacked.
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 22:44:18 -0400 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Time Immortals
> > The question is, When did/do/will these pre-Immortals show up?
> > Another interesting question.. since these pre-Immortals coming to the
> > future have succeeded on their quests, and are currently Immortals.. can
> > their Immortal forms "pull a paradox" and aid their earlier selves? After
> > all, Khoronus has (probably) set a precedent, since he's (probably) his
> > own patron.. :)
> Well, I would want to keep things consistent between how the PC can attain
> Immortality and how these Immortals do the same. So I would lay the following
> ground rules:
>
> Rule 1. An Immortal cannot aid, in any way, his pre-Immortal form, when that
> form comes into the future(the Immortal's present).
May I ask for a more detailed explanation of this one, and how it would
work?
> And while all Immortals can go into the past if necessary,
Partly true - I believe TSR has an article on AOL, "Chronomancy and the
Multiverse", which one Mystaran has expanded upon.. Basically, Immortals
have a similar rule about needlessly going back in time to the one about
needlessly interfering in mortal affairs..
> they never
> do this to help their pre-Immortal forms, because they handled it without their
> help the first time, so why bother wasting power?
Excellent point - unless the DM dropped a few mysterious garbage cans
during their campaign.. :)
> PC - "Remember the garbage can."
<chuckles> But that takes all the /fun/ out of being able to travel
through time.. :)
> Rule 2. The Immortal cannot enter the plane where the pre-Immortal form is
> located, presumably the Prime Material Plane.
>
> This prevents the two beings from meeting each other, and resolves any question
> of a paradox of someone being in two places at once. This rule is not that
> big a deal, though, if you don't care about this type of paradox. I suppose
> that the Immortal could consider the pre-Immortal form to be similar to an
> avatar.
Actually, with a good player, this could be rather interesting.. it's
just as easy for the Immortal to go back in time to chat with themselves
as it is for them to go back and do anything else - don't forget that Time
Immortals have considerable leeway when it comes to Temporal Prime (from
the Chronomancer supplement).
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: s9406058@student.anu.edu.au (Shawn)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 13:13:29 +1000
Subject: [Mystara] Re: Gombar and Suma'a
>From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
>Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 14:10:48 -0700 (MST)
>Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Gombar and Suma'a
>
>On Tue, 8 Oct 1996, Shawn wrote:
>
>> >What happened to the other humanoids on
>> >the Immortal's Arm?
>>
>> I don't really intend on following that one up, that's the problem with
>> such migrations. You tend to leave people everywhere. Though for all
>> intense purposes they are still there and they don't know that the ogre-kin
>> are a bit of a way up west coast.
>
>How about the Sylvan Realm? Have you decided whether the ogre-kin have
>any contact with them, or is that area a bit too far north of
>Gombar/Suma'a for the ogre-kin to have explored yet?
Hating to sound too anti-elven (even though I am) where is the Sylvan Realm?
>Perhaps the elves in the SR could be a distant trading partner- or at
>lest they were, up until Moorkroft took over...?
Perhaps depends where it is really :)
- ------------------------------
>
>From: TSRBruce@aol.com
>Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 23:10:33 -0400
>Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Gombar and Suma'a
>
>In a message dated 96-10-08 22:46:27 EDT, you write:
>
><< Hmmm, this seems to create a problem. The ogres seemed to migrate
>southwards
> across the straights with no problem the first time around - and that's not
> just me talking, that's the HW migration map. >>
>
>The navigation southward still isn't a problem per se.
I was mentioning the ogre migration southwards to the Tanagoro colony,
which seems to be a problem - that is if I am thinking about this properly.
>If Gombar and Suma'a
>are on the western coast of the Arm of the Immortals, they can stay clear of
>the foul area of the strait, circling it outward a bit further to the west.
>Of course, nothing prevents our Texeirans and Vilaverdans from doing the same
>the same thing, and reach the Davania from the eastern side. Either cultures
>could build new ships on the other sides provided they settled the area long
>enough for that (a bit like America back when the Panama Canal did not exist
>and no one had yet doubled Cape Horn. Either way -- don't take the above as
>gospel, this was only a suggestion.
Fair enough, but still an interesting suggestion.
>Bruce Heard
Shawn Stanley
I am a QHQGMEEEBBGAU Mystaran
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/index.html
------------------------------
From: Kaviyd@AOL.com
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 23:33:56 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bargle the Infamous
In a message dated 96-10-09 13:27:56 EDT, MRRU13B@prodigy.com (MR TIMOTHY M
DI BONA) writes:
<< I agree that he has the potential to become this in time, but to
boost someone from 17th to 30th level is quite obsurd. >>
As I recall, I never did specify a time table for Bargle to achieve
Immortality. Given enough time, advancing from 17th to 30th level
is quite possible.
Also, the method for achieving Immortality in the Sphere
of Entropy is never specified -- although if it is the "Path of the
Conqueror" as described in "Orcs of Thar", the Master of Hule
should have become an Immortal long ago. But the plot that
I suggested for Bargle to carry out would bring him to the
attention of the Entropic Immortals above all other candidates
if he is successful at carrying it out.
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 22:06:00 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mystara] Revenge of the 'Noids: Addendum
After looking over this last post, and checking out a few things, I
realized I have to make a correction. Also, for the heck of it, I decided
to elaborate on one or two things.
> Hutai-Khan: Hutai left with Thar to wage war on Glantri. At the
> conclusion of the war, he returned home, throwing off the yoke of control
> of the hated Thar and Kol. When he heard of Alebane's expedition to
> Oenkmar, he rallied his hordes for a return trip to that hated place. He
> sought vengeance on Xilochtli. He had tracked X. to the temple of
> Oenkmar, but was denied revenge when X. was transported away by his
> master (along with the blue knife). As for the defeat of the 'noids in
> Oenkmar...
Hutai-Khan's arrival in Oenkmar would have been awhile after Xilochtli's
flight, according to PWA3. He would never have been able to catch him.
Still, his motivation in returning there would not have changed (he
didn't know the high priest had turned tail).
It would make for some interesting roleplay, I think, having HK trying to
lead his troops back to Oenkmar, considering his Quest not to discuss the
city:
(HK and Alebane talk prior to their going)
HK: I understand you're going to raid... someplace?
AB: Yeah. City called Oenkmar. Heard of it?
HK: ...
AB: Anyway, it should be a lot of fun.
(At a war session with his advisors, in Oenkmar)
Advisor 1: Why Hutai-Khan never look at maps of city I draw? Him never
want to talk about where we go.
Advisor 2: Me think he look at map when we all gone. Him know city real good.
Ad1: Me think you right. Him must want all credit for self. Rassimfrassim...
> Tlatepetl: Not much info on this guy. I figure he's a bit of a snob (he's
> Oenkmarian, after all), and will seek to gain full control of the 'noids
> of the Orclands.
I thought about a possible background for this guy. I figure he's
probably either a Hobgoblin or an Orc, given his military proclivities.
Given that most of Oenkmar's population is Orcish, I decided he should be
a red Orc. At any rate, my idea for his background is thus:
Pictlan the red orc was the greatest Tlachtli player ever known in
Oenkmarian history. His team, of which he was naturally captain,
consistently defeated all comers for many years running. Unfortunately,
they had one bad season, and (as is the case often in the game of
Tlachtli), it was to be their last. The team was going to be sacrificed
on the altar to Atzanteotl. Lord Zotl Tehuantipoca, a big Tlachtli fan,
had long admired Pictlan's leadership ability on the field, and saw an
opportunity he couldn't pass up. Zotl offered Pictlan freedom if he would
become a general in the Oenkmarian army; Pictlan agreed. Zotl's ally,
Xoteczuma, replaced Pictlan with an orc who had been magically altered to
look like him. Pictlan was freed, and came to work for Zotl, changing his
name to Tlatepetl, so the clergy wouldn't find him. He cherishes a hatred
for the Oenkmarian clergy to this day.
Also, I sort of like the idea that Xoteczuma and some of her Oenkmarian
Wokan allies are now working with Tlatepetl in the Orclands.
Additionally, a note on the Great Migration:
I figured that the lands of the Tiger clan would be as good a location as
any to initially send the Migration. Naturally, once the Migration
reaches there, the Atruaghin Clans will go nuts (remembering the invasion
of the 'noids many years ago) and fighting will break out. I figure this
won't necessarily end badly, though, once Atruaghin learns the reason for
the 'noid migration. He will probably convince his immortals (and, thus,
the Atruaghin people) to aid the Supreme Hool in his quest for the Blue
Knife, for a couple of reasons:
1) Atruaghin is Atzanteotl's mortal enemy; anything that can put a kink
in his plans will suit Atruaghin- I figure stopping one of Atzan's big
kahunas is a good reason.
2) Atruaghin doesn't want any more bloodshed among his people than is
necessary. The other Atruaghin immortals will likely agree (some more
reluctantly than others).
3) The Red Orcs (the primary force in the migration), share many cultural
elements with the Atruaghin people, which may make communication more
easy between the two groups. Indeed, perhaps a better relationship may be
reached between the two, which will help to allay fears of the 'noids
among the Atruaghin people.
Anyway, those are just some random musings...
------------------------------
From: Patrick <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 05:30:31 +0000
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Time Immortals
><< The question is, When did/do/will these pre-Immortals show up?>>
>
>I certainly see possibilities here. Yav is another Immortal whose time
>travels are well documented. However, candidates for Immortality in
>the Sphere of Time do not necessarily travel into the future -- they
>travel into a possible future that may or may not actually occur. So,
>while it is certainly possible for these Immortal candidates to show up
>at various times, it is not necessary that they do so.
In the case of Yav, at least, he did not achieve immortality until the
future time when he had finished the quest to help his people. Are other
immortal candidates able to go back in time after they helped their
descendants? If this were the case, than it seems like the test is really
pointless, since the immortal could simply appear in a more powerful mortal
identity to solve whatever future problems might come up. Could it be that
Al Kalim as he is described in history was actually questing primarily in
his own future, meaning that he was born long ago and subtly influenced the
rise of his dynasty through the years until he finally united the Emirates
around 900 AC (? On the date). This could solve the problem of the
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paradoxes, but it would require that there be some sort of requirement that
no candidate may become an immortal until the time that the entire path is
completed. This is how I handle this problem, and it seems to have worked
so far IMC.
Patrick
------------------------------
From: David Keyser <davidk@Synopsys.COM>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 22:02:29 -0700
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Time Immortals
> From owner-mystara-l@lists.io.com Wed Oct 9 21:43:47 1996
> From: Kaviyd@aol.com
>
> An even nastier possibility would be for Immortals to take actions that would
> prevent the ascensions of their rivals. But I suspect that one of the
> benefits
> of achieving Immortality is that no Immortal can be "paradoxed" out of
> existence -- if somebody alters the past so that an Immortal candidate
> fails to achieve Immortality, the new Immortal still appears at the proper
> time, albeit without a past that any mortal remembers. I once suggested
> this possibility to explain all those Immortals who have no memories of their
>
> mortal lives.
>
This is another possibility, but remember that an Immortal still can only
indirectly try to stop a mortal questing for Immortality. Module IM3 starts off
with a the slaughter of a bunch of promising candidates for Immortality, and
the PCs have to investigate what happened. So while one Immortal may try to
stop a candidate indirectly through minions, the candidate has their own
resources to protect them, plus those of the Immortal sponsoring them.
>I certainly see possibilities here. Yav is another Immortal whose time
>travels are well documented. However, candidates for Immortality in
>the Sphere of Time do not necessarily travel into the future -- they
>travel into a possible future that may or may not actually occur. So,
>while it is certainly possible for these Immortal candidates to show up
>at various times, it is not necessary that they do so.
My own preference is that the timeline does not get altered by those who go
back into the past. In play, mortals and Immortals can go back in time, and
perform actions that will affect the timeline, but coming back, find out that
those actions were consistent with and/or necessary for the timeline they
started with. This would require that all Time Immortals have performed their
actions in the actual future(or past) of the one(and only one) timeline.
But that is my own preference.
Dave Keyser
------------------------------
From: Andre Cavalcanti Rocha Martins {S <acrmarti@fma1.if.usp.br>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 05:23:31 -0200 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Alfheim War
On Wed, 9 Oct 1996, Herve MUSSEAU wrote:
> You're right, the destruction of the Canolbarth forest should bring
> climatic changes in the KW. And not only in Ylaruam, I guess. Any ideas?
I think we should not go too far on this or we will end up destroying many
cultures. Imagine the ethengarians if there is no longer the steppes. But
some changes would happen.
The most obvious is that it starts raining in Ylaruam. In the first years,
it will be just a small increase in the rain, as could happen in good
years. Then, in 1015, or 1016, a big rain happens in the desert for
the first time. It is not a tropical storm, but the water they would
expect in six months come down in about one hour. And one month later it
happens again.
Darokin should become drier. Part of its rains happened due to the forest
humidity. Severe droughts could happen there. Do we have an expert on
mystaran weather around? I have no idea why the northern reaches are so
cold, if there is any magical reason as there was for the ylari desert, so
I can make no other guesses.
> This is always possible. But as elves, the AE (and Ilsundal) tend to
> have long-term plans, not a short-term plan of war (IMO).
> Whatever his plans, Ilsundal definetly has plans. I just don't agree
> that they include war at this point.
I know. That's basically why we diverge about this war. But Maeliden would
be working hard to convince Ilsundal to retake Alfheim. He might be the
one plotting behind the Alfheim Avengers while he convinces Ilsundal.
> To protect his people. And he created the ToL, who are his avatars, to
> help them (according to Gaz5, or to what I remember from it).
Avatars (evil grin)? So the magic is corrupting Ilsundal's avatars. Since
avatars and the Immortal share the same mind, what would happen if you
corrupt an avatar? Probably nothing dramatic, but it wouldn't be strange
if Ilsundal would feel more compelled to go to war.
> Sure, especially if they're avatars. But as I said, there may be other
> ways than war (according to Brizio's timeline, there are only 2 ToL
> remaining in Alfheim, and they are hidden and disguised as dead trees).
Oh, I agree Ilsundal would try the other ways. But they are almost
certainly doomed to failure, IMO. "Please, would you shadow elves be so
nice and undo this enchantment and let us get back to our forest?" No way,
right. And think like an elf, or any other forest creature. Ilsundal send
you to Rafieltown to negotiate a peace treaty. You enter the once green
and beautiful Canolbarth forest and see it is more corrupt than the last
time you left it. You have heard foul monster are running wild on your
homeland. The SE, the trolls of your childish tales, are in charge and are
the ones who have destroyed the most beautiful place in earth. Any AE
would have to control himself to not start crying immediately and start
attacking on a berserk rampage. Of course, those who go there are
experient diplomats and they are able to conduct their mission. They try
hard to make a treaty and they try to believe the SE are saying the truth
when they tell that they didn't meant to destroy the forest. Your heart
doesn't believe them, but you know you must do anything to save it, even
trust the SE. But then the Treekeeper is aimed by a SE criminal arrow. The
ambassadors will go back to the exile and tell their tales. Soon, every
elf will be outraged and with a bloodthirsty look in their eyes. The tale
of how corrupt the forest became will generate many songs, some of the
saddest songs the elves have ever sung. The foul orcs will be seen as
harmless creatures when compared to the evil of the SE. And they will
start preparing their swords. How could it be different?
> I agree 100% with you that all Immortals of nature are worried about
> what the SE can do to all forests in the world. But they don't
> especially want to retake that particular piece of land, since it is now
> dead. However, they will probably try their best to prevent the SE from
> using such a knowledge again (if possible destroying the knowledge
> alltogether). But they don't need a war to do this, there are more
> subtle ways of handling this.
Of course they will try more subtle ways. Send some brave adventurers that
can disguise as shadow elves and see what they can come with. But if they
fail, war will be the only alternative. And if they come back with the
real information, everyone will know many wizards were instrumental to
Canolbarth's destruction. Any of them could know enough about the spell,
so they must be all destroed, unless that danmed spell can be
rediscovered. And the only way to kill the whole bunch would be to go to
war against the shadow elves. Btw, Atzanteotl would instruct a small group
of really evil SE about the spell. They would learn it and he would give
them the bright idea of using this spell to make money. Just go to a small
village and menaces them. If they won't pay, destroy their farms. It won't
work on such a grand scale as Canolbarth, but a group of terrorists could
use this in smaller scales.
> Hmm so why say they want to take part in the war in the first place? If
> they are interested in that war but don't want to participate they can
> use diplomacy/spying to start the war, but they really don't need to get
> military involved at all.
> And, yse, this is true that they will need their troops soon in other
> areas.. NACE and Hinterlands (where they will soon stumble upon the
> Emerondians and possibly upon the evil tribes of eastern Davania).
It would just be a plot. They know the dwarves want to go to war, but are
recovering for their internal problems. They would cretainly feel more
confident with the might thyatian empire backing them. And, yes, they will
use diplomacy/spying to help it (as well as the Master will do, another
one who will only gain from such a war).
> Your arguments are appealing. But I still think the dwarves are just
> unlikely to go to war AGAIN, at least not now. But in a few years...
I have tried hard to make them so. Glad you liked them.
> ok, they want to get their power back. But they also need to be very
> cautious, since they are carefully watched by other Immortals. And they
> will probably get involved only if there is no risk.
> BTW: Atzanteotl doesn't feel like Rafiel made him suffer from a major
> stroke, in fact he believes that Rafiel is an ally (see Fabrizio's
> timeline). The both of them cooperated during WotI, and he still doesn't
> suspect that Rafiel is good and was a double agent for Rad.
Maybe that's because I feel a little diferent about this events, as I
believe I have posted once sometime ago, when Fabrizio posted the first
version for his timeline. Atzanteotl is a subtle ploter, so it just
happened to me he could be doublecrossing Rafiel. He know him for what he
is (Rafiel sided with Rad openly in the argument with Ixion before anybody
else did it) and he was using him all the time to infiltrate his SE.
Someone has posted a timeline with SE-Schatenallfen encounters (was it you
Fabrizio?) and both civilization seemed to be aware they were diferent. So
I believe Atzanteotl is just preparing Aengmor fall. He will want to keep
using Rafiel, so he won't try to take the City of Stars at this point, but
no shaman would be willing to live on the surface where their cristals
would be destroyed. So he would just be "helping" sending some of his
clerics to take care of the SE's good health.
> > Certainly not if Stefan keeps his troops in the country. I wouldn't be so
> > sure about it if most of his troops were sent aboard, unless he can
> > convince his nation the SE are a terrible evil and that they must put
> > their differences aside to save their lives. At the other hand, Zirchev
> > would be preaching exactly this, and this would be a good oportunity to
> > really unite the country, if he can do it. I am not sure on this one.
>
> If you really intend to make a war happen in your campaign at this
> point, then you should give a role to Zirchev in Karameikos, that's a
> great idea.
And if Stefan decides to go to war, the cult of Halav will grow up,
claiming King Halav has returned as Stefan Karameikos to lead them back to
their former glory. The king could even use them to help unite the
country. Btw, if the elves will be leaving Karameikos to go to war, they
will certainly try to hire karameikan mercenaries, so it might be a very
difficult job to stay out of the war.
> > > > As a matter of fact, he was advised by a Dolores' pawn. She and von
> > > > Drachenfels were behind this invasion. It was Synn's idea that the
> > > > only way Glantri's Parliament would agree to invade the Khanates would
> > > > be if they would start a war. The fact that Bramyra would be a natural
> > > > target was a bonus to Jaggar plans. Incidentally, this also explains
> > > > how Synn was able to "charm" him. Who would think about casting
> > > > detection spells on a beautiful woman that is making one old dream
> > > > coming true? The end of hostilities between the heldanners and the
> > > > ethengarians were part of this plan. Jaggar has personally visited
> > > > Freiburg during the war with Alphatia several times and he had several
> > > > friends there. He convinced them that ifthe ethengar was to attack
> > > > Glantri, he could get his country to retaliate. The heldanners could
> > > > break the peace then and attack the Khanates from north, getting the
> > > > khan's army in a pincer movement.
> > >
> > > This isn't exactly what is in the draft timeline, but it goes along
> > > quite well with it. In fact, most of it could be used there.
Some new problems. Synn has helped to move Glantri in the direction Jaggar
wanted (war against the ethengar). I am sure he will be deeply upset when
he finds out that Dolores has been making a fool of him in the last years,
but how much? I mean, if Dolores send him some emissaries proposing help
in his war against the ethengarians, how would he react? She could want to
create a new principality where Bramyra, almost destroyed by the invasion
lies, one controlled by another pawn of her. She would promisse (and
fulfill this particular promisse) to try her best to destroy the horsemen.
How would our prince react with such conflict of interests (I just wished
he were a PC in my campaign so I would give him this moral dilemma)?
> > Good. At least we have agreed on something :)
>
> Fortunately enough :)
> Hey, I don't want to systematically disagree with you, but you are
> promoting a war in Aengmor right now, which I think is too early. So I
> present the counteraguments. BTW, I think most people want another big
> war, but in 1020 or even a bit later (we could take a poll on this:).
Good idea. I will call a vote on this one on a separate email (I am not
sure how many people are reading the whole discussion). So that we can
have an "official" decision. That would make things easier to work with.
> True. That's why the invasion by Moglai Khan in Micheal's timeline is
> likely to help Glantri unite against a common foe. Although this will
> only be an uneasy allaince between the princes, as usual.
Yes. And Jaggar might then try to face Synn, if he accepted her offer
before, but she would be even more powerful.
> > Well, let's face it. Akesoli position is undefensable. And the Master can
> > take it without getting his troops too far away from Sind. So, he might
> > wait longer for crossing the lake, but Akesoli is such an easy target he
> > wouldn't let it escape him. And if he takes Darokin one piece at a time,
> > he might even avoid the war in Sind.
>
> Why not? This is plausible. How many troops does the Master have
> stationed in Sind exactly?
I don't know. I believe there might be something in the PWAs, but I'll
have to check it.
Andre Martins
------------------------------
From: Alad3@aol.com
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 09:26:11 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 2
In einer eMail vom 10.10.1996 00:02:47, schreiben Sie:
>Is anyone interested in an evn longer, more detailed timeline?
Oops. When i wrote this i had only gotten a few small parts of your timeline,
Daniel, and had thought that was it. It appears your timeline is just as long
and detailed as mine. Sorry.
Alad3
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V1 #258
*****************************
mystara-digest Thursday, 10 October 1996 Volume 01 : Number 259
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Alad3@aol.com
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:06:53 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Time Immortals
One thing that has always bothered me about some time immortlas, is that they
didnt have a dynasty in life, and the designers just thought they'd fit in
the sphere. I'll tell you soem concrete examples once i've looked it up.
Alad3
------------------------------
From: Matthew_Kammann@westtown.edu (Matthew Kammann)
Date: 10 Oct 1996 14:19:15 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 2
Hey I would be really interested in this.
------------------------------
From: Geoff Gander <ggander@chat.carleton.ca>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 10:39:04 EDT
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Your Last
>
> My address is 1233 Verano Place, Irvine, CA 92715.
> I won't actually be home until the 24th of this month, but if you still
> have a month to go on the descriptions, then I suppose it's irrelevant; I
> am very interested in seeing your map, so keep me posted.
>
> m@2
OK, the map is ready. I will mail it off to you shortly, but I have
a question to clarify. Is the above address still correct? And finally...
Do you also want a copy of the documentation I wrote for this map
as well? I added about 10 new cities, and I am working on a description of
them (shouldn't take too much longer). If you want the descriptions as
well, your package will arrive later, and I would have to charge you a bit
more. This brings me to my other question, how much would you be willing
to pay?
As much as I'd love to send it for free, unfortunately I can't.
At least 12 hours went into drawing and colouring the map, and
photocopying (colour) will cost $3.50 (Canadian) for one sheet. Added to
that will be shipping and handling to the US (though that shouldn't be too
expensive).
I you could answer me, it would greatly help in sending the map
(at least) off to you.
Geoff
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Geoff Gander
Political Science IV
Carleton University
General wanderer by principle, adventurer by profession
Email address: ggander@chat.carleton.ca
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Geoff Gander <ggander@chat.carleton.ca>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 10:48:54 EDT
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Davania
Andre Cavalcanti Rocha Martins {S writes:
>
>
>
> On Tue, 17 Sep 1996, Geoff Gander wrote:
>
> > I'm afraid my map is hand drawn, could you give me your mailing address,
> > and I will get around to sending you a copy (if I find a decent enough
> > photocopier).
>
> Good. I am willing to see it. My address is:
>
> Andre C. R. Martins
> r. Antonio, Felicio, 112, apto 52
> Sao Paulo - SP
> CEP 04530-060
> Brazil
Great news! The map is now complete! I can make a colour photocopy of
it for you. I also am working on a set of documentation for it (ie: a
description of the various cities in the Adakkian Sound, plus more details
on the Milenian cities in northern Davania). If you want a copy of this
also, let me know, though delivery of the map will be delayed.
There is, however, an unfortunate question I have to ask you. How
much would you be willing to pay for this package? Colour photocopies tend
to be expensive ($3.50 Canadian), and I do not know how much it would cost
to send a package to Brazil (I shouldn't think it would be too much
though). Let me assure you that I would much rather prefer sending it for
free, but the costs of production were higher than expected. In any case,
I leave the matter up to you.
Please respond so we can discuss this further.
Geoff
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Geoff Gander
Political Science IV
Carleton University
General wanderer by principle, adventurer by profession
Email address: ggander@chat.carleton.ca
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 12:15:31 -0400 (EST)
Subject: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 7
************************* The Modern Era **********************
0 AC: The economies of both Thyatis and Alphatia have
been wrecked by the war; the two powers conduct a peace treaty
in the city of Edairo, the capital of Thothia (on the Isle of
Dawn). Later, in Thyatis, General Zendrolion Tatriokanitas
assassinates King Lucinius and several other kings gathered
there, and crowns himself Emperor of Thyatis, Ochalea and the
Pearl Islands. The Thyatians celebrate for weeks. Thyatians do
some trading with Minroth islanders. (DotE)
The Traladara begin a period of regrowth as trade is
slowly established with southern peoples. Peaceable demihumans
(the Callarii elves and the Highforge gnomes) settle in
Traladara territories; warlike demihumans (goblins, hobgoblins,
orcs) do as well, in lesser numbers. (GAZ1)
Early Alasiyan agricultural settlements along coastal
plain and interior desert oases.
1 AC: Yav reappears once again, attempting to fix an
artifact. However, the fix drains all ambition from the
Tanagoro. (CoM)
20 AC: Emperor Zendrolion dies. Empress Valentia the
Justiciar issues her Citizen's Proclamation and initiates
other reforms. (DotE)
21 AC: Ansel Darokin declares himself King of Darokin,
beginning the reign of the Eastwind Kings. (GAZ11)
39 AC: The Flying City of Serraine makes its maiden
flight. (PC2)
50 AC: An Alphatian wizard, by magical experimentation
with wood-imps and pixies, creates a small humanoid race he
calls the Kubitts. They average a foot and a half tall; he
gives them their name from an old Milenian word for the
measurement a foot and a half. He makes them independent and
strong, but when he tries to force them to perform deeds
against their wishes, they rise up against him and kill him.
The Immortal Vanya, smitten by these diminutive
warriors, transplants the entire race to a hidden jungle
valley in the Hollow World. (HW)
67 AC: Orcs living near Lake Amsorak wrest most of
Darokin from its human inhabitants in this bloody summer. The
humans and elves of Darokin join forces to drive the orcs out;
they're successful. Thousands of orcs flee into Nagpuri,
slaying and pillaging as they overrun the lands. Nagpuri's
warriors must contend with orc troubles for the next decade.
(GAZ10/GAZ11)
87 AC: Aden I, King of Darokin, is killed by orcs,
ending the Eastwind reign. (GAZ11)
88 AC: Orcs make major gains against the leaderless
Darokin humans, forcing the Elves of Alfheim to support Corwyn
Attleson as a compromise choice to lead Darokin. The reign of
Darokin Kings begins. (GAZ10/GAZ11)
100 AC: Descendants of Makistani tribal nomads are
driven into Ylaruam from Ethengar by Muhuli Khan and settle the
Ust-Urt Valley. (GAZ2)
Celedryl of the Erendyl clan is crowned king of
Alfheim. (GAZ5)
Goblinoid hordes sweep the Savage Coast again. Tortle
civilization falls, and humans, dwarves, and elves remaining
along the eastern coast are prompted to build permanent
settlements. (RS)
100 - 150 AC: Three prominent families rise to power
in the Asanda plain - the Pratikutas of Putnabad (which
includes present-day Jaibul and Jalawar), the Rastrapalas of
Shajarkand, and the Mahavarmans of Nagpuri and Gunjab.
Throughout the century, successive generations gain and lose
power and ground in almost constant struggles for control.
(CoM)
122 AC: In Darokin, Corwyn I dies after a long and
successful reign. His son, Corwyn II, assumes power. (GAZ11)
130 AC: First contact by humanoids with shadow elves.
Shadow elves rejected by Celedryl. Campaign of shadow-elf
incitement of humanoids against surface elves begins.
150 AC: Thyatians begin colonizing into the
southeastern coastal plain and the foothills of the Altan Tepes
range in Ylaruam, enslaving and assimilating, and scattering the
indigenous population. (GAZ2/DotE)
179 AC: The Pratikutas seize control of the entire
length of the Asanda River and most of the Salt Swamp -
despite internal problems with revolts and rebellions. (CoM)
186 AC: Rajah Vijay Pratikuta dies, leaving Putnabad
to Sarad, his only son. Rajah Sarad's weak rule loses all but
a fraction of Putnabad's territory. Newly-powerful families
rule in Jalawar and Jhengal. Other rajahs suspect these new
rulers are shape shifters. (CoM)
200 AC: Rockhome dwarves begin colonizing into outside
lands; they are usually welcomed into human communities.
The Atruaghin Clans begin trade with Sind and
Darokin. (GAZ14)
250 AC: The Alphatians begin colonizing into the
northern and central coastal plain of Ylaruam, enslaving and
scattering the indigenous population. Some of the Ylari driven
out by the Alphatian and Thyatian aggression migrate to
Darokin. The Alphatians also found the colony of New Alphatia
on the Isle of Dread; Alphatian magic is adapted to seafaring
needs. (GAZ2/DotE)
Alphatian settlers colonize the side of Trader's Isle
left uninhabited by the Minroth traders. At first they fight,
but soon trade wins over war. (DotE)
Nomads driven from their homelands in Ylaruam by
Thyatian colonists make their way into Darokin and then into
Sind. They bring with them single-humped dromedaries, fine
horses, and techniques for making /flying carpets/. Some
settle in Sindhi towns. Many more find kindred spirits in the
Urduk nomads west of Sind and add their herds and desert
traditions to those of their new-found brethren. Rajahs
seeking to strengthen their armies with Ylari warriors try to
attract Ylari settlers to their lands.
276 AC: Human and elf cultures in the Isles of Dread
meet and establish trade.
284 AC: Minrothian and Alphatian cultures clash on
Dread Island over slave trading issues; elves force the humans
to make peace.
293 AC: Last of the orc tribes driven from Darokin.
300 AC: The water elf trading port of Seahome is
established on Alfeisle in the Minrothad isles.
313 AC: The Hattian Rebellion. Emperor Alexian II
crushes the revolt and establishes Thyatian dominance.
330 AC: A group of humans exploring deep underground
finds the shadow elves and rekindles their interest in the
surface world.
360 AC: Minroth traders carry slaves for Thyatian
Empire; halfling slaves are introduced to the Isles of Dread.
390 AC: Disastrous humanoid raid on Alfheim. Some orcs
captured.
395 AC: The Flaems, an offshoot of the Alphatians from
the original Alphatian homeworld, settle the Glantri area where
they discover the Radiance. They bring natural strains of bear
and boar lycanthropy.
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Deathwatch <deathw@dds.nl>
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 19:51:56 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] I, Tyrant?
At 11:56 8-10-96 -0700, you wrote:
>>Is there really information SPECIFIC to MYSTARAN beholders in there or is it
>>only useful stuff in general? If there is specific stuff in there, how much?
>
>I leafed through it at the store. Lots of general information on
beholders, and
>is compatible with Mystara beholders.
>
>But there is ONE specific paragraph on Mystara beholders, five or six lines
>which describe the appearance of Mystara beholders(which look different in FR,
>Greyhawk, etc.). I read it, and to summarize, from memory, Mystara beholders
>are brown.
>
>Dave Keyser
That's it? That's the Mystara part?
Bas van Doornspeek
------------------------------
From: Roundhouse <Roundhouse@mms.net>
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 11:42:37 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Alfheim War
Andre Cavalcanti Rocha Martins {S wrote:
>
> On Wed, 9 Oct 1996, Herve MUSSEAU wrote:
>
> > You're right, the destruction of the Canolbarth forest should bring
> > climatic changes in the KW. And not only in Ylaruam, I guess. Any ideas?
>
> I think we should not go too far on this or we will end up destroying many
> cultures. Imagine the ethengarians if there is no longer the steppes. But
> some changes would happen.
>
> The most obvious is that it starts raining in Ylaruam. In the first years,
> it will be just a small increase in the rain, as could happen in good
> years. Then, in 1015, or 1016, a big rain happens in the desert for
> the first time. It is not a tropical storm, but the water they would
> expect in six months come down in about one hour. And one month later it
> happens again.
There should not be too much of an increase in the rain. The Altan Tepes
mountains will still prevent much of the rain from crossing into Ylaruam.
> Darokin should become drier. Part of its rains happened due to the forest
> humidity. Severe droughts could happen there. Do we have an expert on
> mystaran weather around? I have no idea why the northern reaches are so
> cold, if there is any magical reason as there was for the ylari desert, so
> I can make no other guesses.
Eastern Darokin wouldn't change at all, it's too far for Canolbarth to have
been effecting it. Western Darokin wouldn't change that much. The mountains
would have the natural weather that would reassert itself remain on the
Darokin side of the mountains. The weather would slide north or south
depending on the jetstream, which would now be uninterrupted.
The Shires might also have a problem. Canolbarth and it's artificial weather
probably pushed the Jet Stream down to them. They would probably get less
rain in the north, but not much of a difference. In a few years the
halflings would realize the difference and adapt their farming to it.
> > This is always possible. But as elves, the AE (and Ilsundal) tend to
> > have long-term plans, not a short-term plan of war (IMO).
> > Whatever his plans, Ilsundal definetly has plans. I just don't agree
> > that they include war at this point.
>
> I know. That's basically why we diverge about this war. But Maeliden would
> be working hard to convince Ilsundal to retake Alfheim. He might be the
> one plotting behind the Alfheim Avengers while he convinces Ilsundal.
I'm running the Wrath of the Immortals right now and one of the PC's is a
cleric of Maeliden. He'll probably want to try and save Alfheim so I've come
up with a way to prevent Alfheim from initially falling. It'll be tough, but
they will have a chance. I never liked that the elves just left without
trying to figure out what was going on. There should have been some form of
real conflict.
- --
I've done the math and Galileo was wrong. The world doesn't revolve around
the sun, it revolves around me.
Daniel J. Macchia
Roundhouse@mms.net
------------------------------
From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 19:29:13 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bargle the Infamous
>>>No offense, but i just don't know where you're coming from on this . .
>>>
>>> But don't let that stop you, just embrace it. (Great idea btw whoever
>>> founded it.) :-)
>>>
>>> -Bob
>>>
>>is this a joke?
>>
>Nope,
>
>(A Grasshopper walks into bar. The bartender says "You know, we have a
>drink named after you."
>
>The Grasshopper says, "Really? You have a drink named, Steve?")
>
>That's a joke. :-)
well
thats cute
but i was hoping to have a more intelligent conversation with you
you know
maybe about the subject
>>in my campaign there is a simple rule
>>there has to be reasons for things to happen
>>
>Cool, here are my simple rules.
>
>1) There's a dozen reasons behind anything if you look hard enough
>and 2) Coming up with good story and a good adventure beats sitting around
>coming up with reasons any day.
why would a DM be looking hard for reasons?
it doesnt take that much work
no matter how lazy you are
with your knowledge of Bargle you ask yourself
"What would Bargle do?"
the adventure is then based on that answer
>>people dont instantly attain 30th level
>>reaching immortality isnt a common thing
>>
>Obviously. I never said it should be a common thing. Neither should the
>Immortals waging war on each other all over Mystara, or an Old One just
>appearing and sucking an Immortals lifeforce into an artifact, or whole new
>world be discovered (like MOrient), or the World Games, etc. But they
>happen. :-)
were not talking about an event here
were talking about the QUEST for immortality
immortality happens !!!!!!!!!!???
this is alot funnier than your previous joke
>>if bargle can reach immortality by taking abandoned wizard towers etc
>No, I thought this was simpler. He became powerful (or more powerful) by
>taking over abandonded towers.
whose abandoned towers?
how did he find them?
why has no one else on the planed found these towers?
>He will then try to attain Immortality by
>turning all of Mystara upside down and displaying his superiority at
>intrigue, subtetly and general meanness over just about every other living
being.
wow
you put in a lot of thought there? huh?
>>anyone could attain immortality
>>i think it ruins the point of immortality by granting it so easily
>Who does it ruin it for? (There. I've just created 15 new Immortals in my
>campaign world all from level 1 ninnies. Are you feeling that? I'll worry
>about maintaining the 'point of Immortality' in my own campaign, but thanks
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>for the feedback.) :-)
>I could see an argument that it ruins the point of Immortality for the
>players. But thankfully I haven't played with players in quite a while who
>were childish enough to say anything remotely like "But the NPC's did
>it...why can't we?" Why do they even have to know?
it will ruin it for the players
any player who knows about mystara will lose respect for the DM when they
meet a cleric of Bargle the Immortal
leaving the players thinking how else has this guy distorted mystara
the immortal bargle the infamous may fit perfectly on another world
but not on mystara
>>how many centuries has Barimoor been working for it?
>Couldn't tell you. Don't care either. It's just an idea for an adventure,
>I never said it would happen overnight. :-)
Barimoor is a couple centuries away from completing this quest
a couple CENTURIES
not overnight at all
Bargle is only in his 50's
reaching immortality at 50 must be a record
>>>>Why would he be looking for Immortality?
>>>Um, for the power to outright crush anyone stupid enough to oppose him?
>>i think you need a better reason than this
>I answered the question "Why would Bargle want Immortality?" If you want
>to ask the question "Why should the DM give it to him?" that's another
>thread.
well i guess youll tell us after it happens
maybe when you build up enough energy to actually think about it
>>if youre looking for a character 30th level
>>throughly evil
>>trying to reach immortality
>>with a bunch of followers
>>who wont hesitate to start a war
>>why dont you use the Master of Hule or Barimoor
>Because the Master is overused
overused by who?
>and boring
hes a lot like your version of Bargle
>and I've never heard of this Barimoor character. :-)
hes a 36th level evil mage in Ylaruam questing for immortality
with dozens of 12th+ level mages, dozens of intelligent weapons and multiple
artifacts
no one important
no one a mystaran DM should know about
>>on Mystara you can find anything
>>thats why its so wonderful
>>theyve already created this character
>>except its Hule, Barimoor, McGregor etc... not Bargle
>"They've" already created this character? (That would be you again,
>Bruce.) :-) And if "They" told you to put all your money into one big
>envelope and mail it somewhere, would you? (Hey Bruce, up for a little
>experiment?) :-) Heaven's forbid "MY", or assuming I haven't yet
>ostracized everyone who agrrees with me "OUR", Bargle be anything else.
>I've spent enough time fighting for this idea in other people's campaign.
>(Not that I didn't enjoy it. :-) ) Ideas are like busses, if you don't
>like the one in front of you just let it go; I'm sure another one will by
>in a few minutes that's more to your liking. But please don't come after
>me for hopping on and seeing where it's going. :-) (But don't get me
>wrong, you're still invited for the ride if you want... The more the
>merrier.)
>-Bob
what in the world are you talking about????
ok i guess your just rambling now
should i have said "TSR" instead of "they"?
i believe the people on the list have enough intelligence to figure out what
i mean
talking about mr heard though
check out the Glantri Gaz
by Bruce Heard
theres an incredible amount of NPCs
all of which have histories
and all have REASONS to do what they are doing
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 12:23:43 -0400 (EST)
Subject: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 15
************ Start of the 'Poor Wizard's Almanacs' ************
1010 AC: The nations of the Known World begin the long,
difficult process of rebuilding.
In Glantri, the Principality of Fenswick is enfeoffed.
Sind is still occupied by the Master's forces. Chandra
ul Nervi is a virtual prisoner in his palace; the rajahs and
maharajahs are no more than puppet rulers. The Master licks
his wounds and launches more attacks against Darokin - from
the sea.
Dwarves stumble upon the city of Oenkmar.
Unusual amounts of snow runoff from the mountains
flood Graakhalia, Darokin, and the Five Shires.
The shadow elves in Aengmor (former Alfheim) realize
that without the Alfheim elves' maintenance spells, their
forest will die. In desperation, they enlist the help of elves
in Norwold in developing spells similar to those spells the
Alfheim elves had used.
Shadow Elves exploring the lower crust discover the
Schattenalfen elves of the Hollow World and open diplomatic
relations with their long-lost relatives. (KW/HW)
Thyatis drives hard into the Alphatian regions of the
Isle of Dawn, retaking all of the Isle except Helskir and
Thothia. Thyatis also drives Ylaruam's small forces from its
territory on Brun.
Hule raids Darokin, threatening trade with the west.
Three Alphatian mages posing as magical spirits invade
the Atruaghin Plateau, subjugate the Clans, and destroy the
World Elevator.
The Great Khan of Ethengar attacks the Heldannic
Territories, hoping for a quick victory while the Heldannic
forces are occupied with conquering Landfall and other
matters. Months of besieging Grauenberg, skirmishing with
Heldannic troops, and raiding Heldannic settlements result in
very little gain for Moglai Khan. Changing tactics, he proposes
peace with the Heldanners, and they become uneasy allies.
King Thar steps down in favor of his advisor, King Kol
IV of the kobolds.
Rockhome dwarves resurface, drive off humanoid
invaders.
Darokin, The Five Shires, Ylaruam, Rockhome, and
Karameikos form the Western Defense League, each pledging to
aid any of the League's members in time of war or disaster.
Overcrowding among the Hollow World Jennites
contributes to the rapid spread of a disease that the Jennite
clerics cannot halt. A Nithian healer named Tibnuhati cures
the plague before it devastates the Jennite herds, but there
is no guarantee the plague will not strike again. (HW)
The Malpheggi Lizard Men suffer an epidemic that
reminds them of the Nithian disease that had once destroyed
their people. The epidemic kills a thousand lizard men. (HW)
Henri battles Isidore and Richard over who will
succeed Etienne d'Ambrevills as Prince of Nouvelle Averoigne.
Isidore kills Henri in a magical duel.
Thaumont 25: The Immortals awake Alphatia in the
Hollow World. (HW)
Kaldmont: The Five Shires declare war on the Black
Eagle Barony and march in to free its oppressed people.
1011 AC: Plague, famine, and food riots strike Thyatis
City and the countryside.
Karameikan School of Magecraft founded at Krakatos,
near Specularum.
Atruaghin Clans revolt against their Alphatian
masters, regain their freedom.
Heldannic Knights seize Oceansend in Norwold,
establish Heldannic rule.
Inevitable death of Canolbarth becomes obvious.
New Kolland becomes the first humanoid principality in
Glantri, with King Kol as its Prince.
Civil war in Rockhome between King Everast XV and the
mad golem Denwarf; King Everast XVI crowned.
Thar allies himself with King Alebane of Ogremoor to
invade Rockhome while the dwarves are caught in a civil war.
The campaign is a disaster; in disgrace, Thar flees to the
Makkres Mountains of Vestland.
Thothia retaliates against Thyatis. Rallying the
"Alphatian Irregulars" (divisions of the fragmented Alphatian
military), Pharaoh Ramenhotep pushes the Thyatian armies out
of Thothia, through Trikelios, and all the way to Ekto.
The Floating continent of Alphatia manages to drive
the Heldannic Knights from the Hollow World. (HW)
Nuwmont: The Five Shires capture Ludwig von Hendriks,
the Black Eagle Baron.
1012 AC: Joam Astlar appointed Sheriff of Seashire;
Jaervosz Dustyboots pursues the nefarious Black Eagle.
Riots continue in Thyatis. Emperor Thincol I dies;
Eusebius succeeds him.
Specularum, Karameikos is renamed to Mirros. King
Stefan names his daughter, Adriana, heir.
Port of Neuhafen opens in Heldannic Territories.
Soderfjord Jarldoms enter the modern age by electing a
king: Ragnar I, the Stout.
Humanoids, dwarves, and shadow elves war for Oenkmar,
ancient city sacred to the elves, who win it.
Magical rain slows Canolbarth's inevitable death.
The first Annual World Games are held in Selenica.
Subtle events mold a darker, more sinister Glantri.
The Great Waste is primarily home to creatures loyal
to the Master of Hule and to people trying desperately to
survive in spite of the invaders.
1013 AC:
************* End of the 'Poor Wizard's Almanacs' *************
1014 AC: The present.
************************* The Future **************************
1020 AC: Joint Darokinian and Thyatian operations to
protect their interests. All-out war pits humans vs. orcs.
1050 AC: Ylaruam falls under the rule of Kin faction
sultans. Its culture and economy flourishes, but its values
decline, and there is a resurgence of traditional tribal
enmities.
1150 AC: The deaths of High King Maramet of Vestland
and his sole heir throw the nation into a political turmoil.
The Sorona, the enchanted crown of Vestland, is sought by
various factions hoping to claim the throne.
******************* Time of the "Great War" *******************
1200 AC: Great War with the Master of the Desert
Nomads. [NOTE: This is a variant timeline that is now unlikely
to take place. See adventure D&D module X10, <Red Arrow, Black
Shield>.]
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 12:19:10 -0400 (EST)
Subject: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 10
900 AC: Marilenev is a flourishing trade village of
500. Emperor Gabrionus IV of Thyatis moves on Marilenev,
conquers it, and claims all of the Traladara region as a
Thyatian protectorate. Marilenev is renamed "Specularum." Many
refugees from Traladara flee to Darokin. The Thyatians also
conquer several areas of the Isle of Dawn, and build and settle
the city of Oceansend in Norwold.
North Isle is annexed by Minrothad. The refuge colony
of Gapton is established there.
Suleiman Al-Kalim falsely spreads reports of his death
to conceal his disappearance as he continues his quest for
Immortality.
A new wave of colonists begins to reach the eastern
Savage Coast, including people from Ylaruam, Yavdlom, and the
Thyatian Empire. They bring feudalism and class structure.
Adventurers begin to establish domains that eventually develop
into the Savage Baronies, and absorb the elven, dwarven, and
human cultures already in the region. Settlers discover the
Red Curse, but decide to stay anyway. A few halflings also
begin to arrive on the Savage Coast, and are absorbed into
local cultures. (RS)
901 AC: Kers Zeberdesti, a Jadugerya claiming to be
Anandarun ul Nervi's illegitimate son, heads a successful coup
against Rajadhiraja Vadin ul Nervi. Kers takes the throne, as
well as the ul Nervi name.
902 AC: The Barony of Narvaez is founded along the
Savage Coast by an expedition of Ispan people from the distant
Thyatian Empire. Narvaez claims a great deal of land, from the
Claw Peninsula to the Bay of the Siren (Baia da Sereia),
including land already occupied by human, elven, dwarven, and
tortle inhabitants. (RS)
903 AC: The Dominion of Vilaverde is founded by Ispans
and people from Yavdlom. (RS)
905 AC: Nueva Esperanza (New Hope) declares
independence from Narvaez. (RS)
906 AC: Dwarves and elves in lands claimed by Narvaez
declare themselves the Barony of Montoya. (RS)
908 AC: The State of Copetez is founded in the plains
of the eastern Savage Coast. (RS)
909 AC: The Barony of Montejo is founded inland from
Narvaez; the Dominion of Tanaka is founded by people from
Yavdlom. (RS)
913 AC: Rajadhiraja Kers ul Nervi dies in a blazing
fire - apparently the result of a magical experiment gone awry
- - that destroys the royal palace and much of Sayr Ulan. His
son Darshan becomes Rajadhiraja, and orders the palace
rebuild. The architectural plans call for an artificial
lake with the splendid new palace built on an island in its
center.
The Barony of Narvaez splits between two heirs; the
northern section remains Narvaez, and the southern portion
becomes the Barony of Sotto. (RS)
914 AC: Toktai Khan of Ethengar repelled at Hayavik -
last serious invasion of the Freeholds from Ethengar.
915 AC: A Himaya named Sarad Ylayci seizes the throne
in a bloody coup. He claims to be yet another illegitimate son
of Anandarun ul Nervi. Once his power is secure, he orders
construction on the palace continued. Like Kers Zeberdesti,
Sarad takes the ul Nervi name as well as the throne.
The State of Aranjuez is founded in the plains near
Montejo. (RS)
916 AC: The Barony of Cristobal is founded several
miles north of Narvaez. (RS)
919 AC: Ethengar attacks Heldann Freeholds, repelled.
920 AC: The war between the Kingdom of Undersea and the
devilfish ends indecisively.
Economic agreement signed between Glantri and Darokin,
allowing free passage for all merchant caravans. Business is
booming in Glantri City.
921 AC: The inland State of Escudor breaks from Sotto.
(RS)
926 AC: The Barony of Rivera is founded within Sotto,
causing a small civil war; Rivera achieves independence. (RS)
927 AC: The Great Merger. Darokin's largest and richest
merchant families agree on a central government for the entire
country. Charles Mauntea picked to lead Darokin, beginning the
reign of the Merchant Kings.
929 AC: The State of Texeiras is founded along the
eastern part of the Bay of the Siren. (RS)
930 AC: The Barony of Marino declares independence
from Narvaez, claiming the western shores of the Bay of the
Siren. (RS)
931 AC: A /cinnabryl/ mine is discovered near Nueva
Esperanza. Sages discover its protective value when used
against those affected by the Red Curse, but others discover
that it harms those unaffected by the curse. /Cinnabryl/ is
known, but not generally coveted. At this time, depleted
/cinnabryl/ is discarded after use. (RS)
932 AC: Lydia Mauntea takes over rulership of Darokin
after the death of her husband, Charles. She assumes the title
"Chancellor".
934 AC: Chancellor Mauntea calls the Second Great
Merchants' Council in Darokin. Many of the reforms started in
927 are finalized, including the election of a new president
upon the death of the current leader by a standing Council of
15 major merchants.
934 AC: The Barony of Gargon~a is founded in western
Sotto; after a short civil war, Gargon~a is granted
independence. (RS)
935 AC: The Barony of Quimeras declares independence
from Narvaez. (RS)
Participation in Ierendi's Crown Tourney is opened to
any individual willing to swear allegiance to the Council of
Lords, the Council of Citizens, and Ierendi.
936 AC: Sotto declares war on Gargon~a; after a few
months, Gargon~a conquers Sotto and absorbs all but the
southern portion, which organizes into the State of Almarron.
The official name of the culture of all Savage Baronies except
Vilaverde and Texeiras is changed from Ispan to Espan; the
language spoken is Espa. (RS)
937 AC: Narvaez attacks Quimeras and Montoya, and
reabsorbs both after a short war. (RS)
939 AC: Rulership of Sind passes to Timin ul Nervi
when his father, Rajadhiraja Sarad ul Nervi, dies in bed.
To encourage internal consolidation, Almarron strikes
south and takes over Nueva Esperanza and surrounding
territories. (RS)
940 AC: All Minrothad trading vessels are now captained
by merchant-princes and carry marines.
A boatload of refugees from the Stonecarver culture,
driven ashore by a titanic hurricane onto Azcan lands, found
the town of Colima. (HW)
The Barony of Alcazar is founded near Cristobal. (RS)
941 AC: The Barony of Torreon is founded south of
Cristobal and Alcazar. (RS)
942 AC: The Azcans defeat the Schattenalfen at the
Battle of Ploiec, and are consequently able to maintain the
Tepetitlan gold mines. (HW)
A human smith in Torreon experiments with depleted
/cinnabryl/; she discovers its usefulness and names the
substance /red steel/. A few small weapons of /red steel/ are
produced. (RS)
944 AC: Most recent orc horde to invade Five Shires
defeated in Eastshire.
947 AC: The State of Bigotillos is founded north of
Copetez. (RS)
948 AC: Stefan Karameikos III born.
Thyatian Emperor grants Priests of Vanya the right to
emigrate fro Hattias.
Dwarves near Nueva Esperanza begin experimenting with
/steel seed/ found in the local /cinnabryl/ mine. When they
accidentally mix it with /vermeil/, they stumble upon the
formula for /smoke powder/. They begin searching for ways to
use the new substance. (RS)
949 AC: Birth of Moctitlapac, the current Tlatoani
(Emperor) of the Azcan Empire. (HW)
Vardon Kalimi named Chancellor of Darokin after the
death of Lydia Mauntea.
Zyndryl, an Alphatian nobleman, founds Seashield.
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V1 #259
*****************************
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mystara-digest Thursday, 10 October 1996 Volume 01 : Number 260
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 12:22:03 -0400 (EST)
Subject: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 13
*********** Begining of the "Wrath of the Immortals" **********
1001 AC: Political lobbyists introduce a bill
allowing the practice of clerical magic in Glantri under very
strict conditions. Clerics must obtain a letter of sanction
from the ruler of the dominion they wish to practice clerical
magic, and the ruler has free rein over the terms of the
sanction - fees imposed, types of magic allowed (healing only,
etc.), expiration of the letter, and so forth. Clerics are
still forbidden to preach their beliefs, regardless of any
letters of sanction, and only Parliament of the Council of
Princes may grant a letter of sanction to clerics operating
within the free territories of Glantri.
The Council of Princes is evenly split over the matter,
and the measure goes to the House of Lords at Parliament. Sire
Malachie du Marais votes against it, but the measure passes.
The White Wolf prepares for an infestation of
lycanthropy-fighting clerics.
The Inheritors face internal conflicts and reorganize
the aligned societies (the Brotherhood of Order, the Neutral
Alliance, and the Friends of Freedom) into the three Orders of
the Inheritors (the Order of the Ruby, the Order of Crimson,
and the Order of the Flame). (RS)
1002 AC: Sire Malachie learns of an enormous silver
deposit in the bedrock beneath le Chateau de Malinbois. This is
a serious obstacle to his plans to control Malinbois.
1003 AC: The Council of Princes approves and Act of
Enfiefment in the economically depressed area of Bramyra,
ending years of chaotic contests for control of the area.
1004 AC: A gold strike in les Montagnes Noires leads to
a rapid influx of population with the Valley of Wolves in
Glantri. Sire Malachie must contend with the fact that the
majority of the newcomers are unwanted - they put a great
strain on the taxed natural resources of the valley, strip the
mountains of precious minerals Sire Malachie hoped to control
for himself, and clash with the resident populations (both
werewolves and non-lycanthropes).
The Council of Princes approves an Act of Enfiefment in
the area of Fort Sablestone. Sire Malachie attempts to
capitalize on the Council of Prince's current willingness to
create new Principalities. The White Wolf is also amused at
this - if the Council grants an Act of Enfiefment in the Valley
of Wolves, it will become the thirteenth Principality.
Spring: Thyatis city suffers an enormous riot by the
poorer citizens, who have seen a steady decline in the quality
and quantity of free bread passed out by the officials. This
has little effect on anyone not in - or under - Thyatis city.
The wererats of Thyatis participate in the riot, as they depend
on the free bread almost as much as Thyatis's poor do.
Spring: Both Alphatia's mages and Thyatis's military
forces become more pushy and uptight than usual.
Spring: An Alphatian elf, Troikithus, uncovers
evidence of the Brotherhood of the Radiance, and reports it to
Empress Eriadna. A week later, his body is found floating in
one of Glantri City's canals.
Summer: Relations between Glantri and the Empire of
Alphatia become strained, as the Alphatian Council of Wizards
accuses the Glantrian Great School of Magic of harboring
followers of the Entropic Immortals and using forbidden, evil
magics. Spies and counter-spies make matters worse. Prince
Etienne d'Ambreville is swept up in the politics and espionage
between the two magocracies.
Summer: Clerical missionaries of the Immortal Vanya
from the Heldann Territories are slaughtered while traveling
through the Ethengar Khanates.
Fall: Several Glantrian nobles having dinner together
are assassinated by a bombardment of lightning bolts, fire
balls, and other powerful magics. The sole survivor, Prince
Innocenti di Malapietra, testifies the killers were wearing
Alphatian clothing.
Fall: Thyatis reinforces Glantri's demand to surrender
the assassins, to everyone's surprise.
Fall: Without benefit of a declaration of war, the
Heldannic Knights send several punitive raids into Ethengar,
launching deadly lance-cavalry attacks against Ethengarian
encampments and slaughtering every last man, woman, and child
encountered.
Fall: Humanoids from the Black Mountains invade
Graakhalia in force. The Master's spies learned of the routes
through Graakhalia to tunnels beneath Sind; his agents made
sure the humanoids heard there was rich plunder to be had
beneath the Plain of Fire. The Graakhalians fight fiercely,
then desperately, as band after band of orcs, goblins,
bugbears, hobgoblins, and other humanoids press deeper into
Graakhalia's labyrinths.
Fall: A band of Glantrians are sentenced to death for
the arson of dozens of temples of the Immortal Asterius.
Winter: Glantrian adventurers escaping from Alphatia
start a fire in Aasla as a distraction, which grows into a
firestorm and devastates the city.
Winter: Humanoids secure Graahkalia's upper levels
against the elves and gnolls, paving the way for the Master of
Hule's plot to seize Sind. Hulean agents struggle to
consolidate the bickering humanoids into an army that can hold
Graakhalia while the Master moves additional forces into place.
Winter: Kiritan ul Nervi, egged on by Hulean agents,
stages a coup against his brother, Rajadhiraja Chandra ul
Nervi. The counter-uprising of Sind's people is met by
thousands of humanoids and brigands appearing out of the earth
itself to fight on the side of the new Rajadhiraja. More
humanoids pour into Sind from the Plain of Fire, reinforced by
Urduk nomads and a tribe of ogres from the Sind Desert. The
civil war sets rajah against rajah as factions fight for
control. Kiritan's forces quickly gain control of Sayr Ulan.
Many loyalist Sindhis die protecting their ruler from
assassins, and the Rajadhiraja flees to Ulimwengu.
1005 AC: The Council of Princes in Glantri approves an
Act of Enfiefment for la Vallee des Loups in favor of Sire
Malachie du Marais.
Ethengar hordes attack the Heldannic Territories.
Prompted by attacks from Bellayne, the goblinoids of
the Yazak steppes begin unifying. Robrenn attacks and
irritates the Yazi goblinoids. (RS)
An internal holy war begins in Narvaez. The church of
Narvaez unifies the factions by providing an external enemy:
the other Savage Baronies. Narvaez carries its Inquisition to
the other Baronies. (RS)
Spring: Empress Eriadna of Alphatia issues a
proclamation of war against Glantri. In return, Glantri, backed
by the Empire of Thyatis and the Heldann Freeholds, declares
war on Alphatia.
Spring: Rajadhiraja Kiritan ul Nervi consolidates his
position as Sind's new ruler. He seems blind to the fact that
he's merely a puppet, and that the Master of Hule pulls his
strings. Many rajahs accept the situation, seeing
opportunities to increase their own power. Only Rani Drisana
of Jalawar, Rajah Mohan of Baratkand, and Maharajah Kami of
Peshmir refuse to recognize Kiritan's claim to the crown.
Summer: Alphatia starts building up its forces in
preparation for eliminating the Empire of Thyatis as an
obstacle to invading Glantri.
Summer: The three rajahs of Sind who refuse to
acknowledge Kiritan as Rajadhiraja attempt to overthrow the
usurper. Their efforts are hampered by the fact that their
mumlykets are separated by mumlykets whose rulers have sworn
obedience to Kiritan. Opposed from without by Kiritan's
Hule-backed forces and from within by spies and stooges, the
attempted coup fails miserably. Maharajah Kabir Rudraksha of
Kadesh seizes the opportunity to invade Peshmir, taking
87-year-old Maharajah Kami prisoner and setting his son Hara
up as Peshmir's new Maharajah.
Summer: Alphatian wizards travel secretly to Glantri,
and set loose hordes of monsters - many from other planes.
Many of these monsters spill over the borders into Sind. Some
join the Master's forces; others simply roam about looking for
trouble.
Fall: In Jalawar, Inay Paramesh, a distant relative of
the Madhars, overthrows Rani Drisana Madhar. Without the help
of Kiritan's elite guard, Inay could not have hoped to
succeed. Vijay Niranjan, the rani's half-brother, falls in the
fighting, as does Rohit, her first husband. Drisana escapes
with her husband Bhagwandas. The two flee to Ulimwengu in
search of Rajadhiraja Chandra ul Nervi.
Fall: The Alphatians on the Isle of Dawn assault the
Fortress of Kendach and the Hold of Fenswatch. After a few
weeks, West Portage is taken.
Winter: On the trail of rajadhiraja Chandra ul Nervi,
Drisana Madhar reaches Ulimwengu. She learns that he passed
through Karimari territory on his way to seek help from
Yavdlom, then traveled back through hoping to drum up support
among the Urduk nomads who did not join the Master's forces.
Drisana stays in Ulimwengu, hoping to convince the Karimari to
supply warriors, elephants, and triceratops in the event
Chandra ul Nervi can form an army to regain his throne.
Winter: His power over Sind now relatively secure, the
Master convinces Kiritan to invade Darokin. The combined
forces of Sind's armies and the Desert Nomads overwhelm
Darokin's defenses and drive the Republic's armies before
them. Akesoli falls within weeks, and the armies soon reach the
city of Darokin itself. A substantial number of weretypes live
secretly in Darokin - merchants and adventurers who contracted
lycanthropy while abroad.
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 12:19:56 -0400 (EST)
Subject: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 11
950 AC: Minrothad signs neutrality pacts with most
mainland countries.
A small but powerful army of Hattian clerics of the
Immortal Vanya conquer the Heldannic Territories. Freiburg
falls; Halvardson family massacred.
The Nordhartar Defense League is formed at the Council
of Soderfjord, creating the Soderfjord Jarldoms. Treaties with
Vestland and Ylaruam aid Soderfjord in securing Overland Trade
Route through Castellan and challenge Ostland to desist coastal
raiding. Ostland in turn allies with Thyatian Empire.
951 AC: A pet tiger seriously mauls Rajadhiraja Timin
ul Nervi. Although he survives, Timin is crippled and
abdicates the throne in favor of his son Kapil. The new
Rajadhiraja is only sixteen years old, but quickly proves
himself a capable leader in repelling the worst humanoid raids
known this century.
The Barony of Babosas is founded east of Vilaverde.
(RS)
952 AC: Siege of Altendorf, last Heldann city to
surrender. The conquerors rename the Heldannic Freehold the
Heldannic Territories; the Thyatian Order of Vanya is recast
as the Heldannic Knights.
954 AC: The World Elevator is constructed to
facilitate trade with the Atruaghin Clans living atop the
Atruaghin Plateau.
957 AC: The first arquebus is constructed in Nueva
Esperanza; a function for /smoke powder/ has been found, but
it is rarely used because of the dangers. (RS)
958 AC: Texeiras conquers the Barony of Marino and the
Dominion of Tanaka. (RS)
959 AC: Alphatia begins another direct war upon
Thyatis.
960 AC: The Alphatian assault forces reach Thyatis City
and kill the Thyatian emperor, but are repelled by a
counterattack led by Thincol the Brave, a famous gladiator.
962 AC: The Barony of Los Elegidos is founded north of
Torreon, Alcazar, and Cristobal. (RS)
963 AC: The Azcans discover the Stonecarvers at Colima,
and send a small troop to wipe them out. The Colimans prevail,
however, and maintain their way of life. (HW)
Yazi gnolls attack Montejo and Aranjuez. (RS)
965 AC: Kitrina Meditor, ruling guildmaster of
Minrothad, is assassinated. The council of guild Leaders acts
as regent until Oran Meditor comes of age.
Prince Haldemar of Haaken begins his voyage on the
Princess Ark, discovering the southern polar opening into the
Hollow World and the invisible moon, Myoshima. (KW/HW)
966 AC: Montejo and Aranjuez unite diplomatically to
form the Barony of Saragon. (RS)
967 AC: The Barony of Morales is founded just north of
Torreon, between Cristobal and Alcazar. (RS)
968 AC: Torreon wars on its neighbors, conquering and
absorbing Morales and Alcazar; Cristobal and Elegidos are
weakened but do not fall. Elite Torreoner warriors use swords
of /red steel/, the first recorded instance of that metal's
use in a large battle. (RS)
969 AC: Torreon discovers deposits of /cinnabryl/ in
Terra Vermelha, and moves to take over those lands; to
forestall a possible war over mining rights, diplomats gather
and form the Treaty of Tampicos, which is signed by Torreon,
Vilaverde, Texeiras, and Hule. (RS)
970 AC: Duke Stefan Karameikos III trades his
ancestral lands (the Duchy of Machetos) to Emperor Thincol for
independent rulership of Traladara, which is renamed the Grand
Duchy of Karameikos. Duke Stefan sails to and takes possession
of his duchy, then begins parceling out land and titles to his
Thyatian followers. He begins building roads across the Duchy
and a strong military to protect it. A minor rebellion and
several assassination attempts follow his move to Specularum.
Elegidos disappears without a trace. (RS)
971 AC: Corwyn Hoff named Chancellor of Darokin after
the resignation of Kalimi.
Babosas is conquered and absorbed by Hule. (RS)
972 AC: Moctitlapac is installed as Tlatoani - Emperor
of the Azcans. (HW)
975 AC: Rypien Hallonica named Chancellor of Darokin
after the death of Hoff.
King Thar unites Broken Lands, threatening Darokin
commerce. Enforces Tharian Code of Conduct. The Legion is
created. Thyatis frowns at the military threat.
The wheel-lock pistols is developed in Nueva Esperanza.
Certain leaders, including a warrior named Cimmaron, encourage
the secret production of the weapon. (RS)
977 AC: Almarron conquers and absorbs Escudor, then
turns north and initiates hostilities with Gargon~a and Rivera.
(RS)
978 AC: To help defend itself from Almarron, Rivera
agrees to be absorbed into Gargon~a. While Almarron is
distracted, Nueva Esperanza begins hostilities; Cimmaron's
pistoleers make quite an impression. (RS)
The Heldannic explorers of the Hollow World become
aware of the Oostdok dirigibles and decide that they would
nicely complement their fleet of Warbirds. (HW)
979 AC: Adventurers are drawn to le Chateau
d'Ambreville and break the curse. Etienne is released from his
dormant state. The chateau crumbles into ruins; all the
d'Ambrevilles except Etienne age and die. Etienne visits Old
Averoigne, and brings his friend Genevive de Sephora, Lady of
Sylaire, and her spacious tower (the House of Sylaire) back to
Glantri. He wishes his family back to life and sets about
restoring Nouvelle Averoigne to its former status. Sire
Malachie du Marais enters Glantri from Old Averoigne. An
epidemic of wolf lycanthropy begins.
Duke Stefan Karameikos marries Lady Olivia Prothemian.
Devilfish resume their attacks on the Kingdom of
Undersea.
The revolution in Nueva Esperanza continues, led by
General Cimmaron. Almarron and Gargon~a end hostilities, and
both ratify the Treaty of Tampicos. (RS)
980 AC: Lycanthropes are again discovered in Minrothad
and in Undersea; fear spreads that more may have escaped the
Silver Purge (443-445 AC). Devil swine and wererats seem
particularly numerous. Weresharks reappear in Undersea.
Etienne is confirmed once again as a Prince by the
Glantrian Council of Princes. Catharine departs for Thyatis
City as Glantri's ambassador.
Wulf von Klagendorf becomes High Cleric of Vanya in
Freiburh.
Ierendi Council of Lords is renamed the Ierendi
Tribunal, becomes an advisory council consisting of elected
and appointed officials.
Lady Adriana Karameikos born.
Armed with a wheel-lock pistol and a /red steel/
sword, General Cimmaron leads his forces to victory over
troops from Almarron at the Battle of Hondo; his followers
declare him Earl Cimmaron, and Nueva Esperanza becomes the
center of the newly independent Cimmaron County. Dissatisfied
with recent leadership, the people of Almarron revolt against
their leader and overthrow him. Making use of old Traladaran
philosophies, they establish a democracy. (RS)
981 AC: Cristobal relinquishes claims on its holdings,
except for one tower and a few square miles of land; the Lord
of Torre Cristobal gives up the title "Baron" but maintains
independence from other powers. (RS)
982 AC: Sire Malachie du Marais wins control of the
Barony of Morlay deep within the Valley of Wolves, in Glantri.
Lord Justin Karameikos born.
984 AC: Saragon ratifies the Treaty of Tampicos. (RS)
Moglai united the Murkit tribe in Ethengar.
985 AC: Founding of the Canine Protection Society in
Glantri.
Copetez and Bigotillos unite through marriage; the
lands are merged to form the State of Guadalante. Guadalante
ratifies the Treaty of Tampicos. (RS)
986 AC: Lord Valen Karameikos born.
Moglai Khan unites the tribes and becomes Great Khan
of the Ethengarians.
Don~a Esperanza comes to power in Gargon~a and leads
her state into peace, beginning a policy of neutrality
regarding all the other Savage baronies. (RS)
988 AC: After Hallonica's death, the Merchant's Council
names Corwyn Mauntea, great-grandson of Charles and Lydia,
president of Darokin.
989 AC: Oran Meditor takes office as ruling guildmaster
of Minrothad, instituting reforms.
Black Eagle Barony invades Eastshire in the Five
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Shires in search of slaves and ill-gotten booty; is repelled.
Attacks continue for two decades.
990 AC: Cimmaron ratifies the Treaty of Tampicos. (RS)
991 AC: Oran Meditor rescinds the Isolation Act and
opens Minrothad to outside contact.
992 AC: Rajadhiraja Kapil ul Nervi dies of injuries
sustained while battling a blue dragon that had plagued
Baratkand. A grandson, Chandra ul Nervi, becomes Rajadhiraja.
The Treaty of Cortesillas, between Guadalante and
Saragon, solves the question of watering rights for cattle
between the two nations. (RS)
994 AC: Almarron faces a time of troubles. An
opportunist seizes control of the state and declares himself
dictator of the nation. (RS)
Heldannic settlers move west into Ethengar lands, are
massacred.
995 AC: First assassination attempt on Oran Meditor.
Clan Kasan is behind the attempt and is removed from control of
the water elf guild. Clan Elsan is promoted to replace Clan
Kasan.
997 AC: /Cinnabryl/ is discovered in Slagovich; it is
mined and traded to Torreon, Texeiras, and Cimmaron for /red
steel/. (RS)
998 AC: Second assassination attempt on Oran Meditor.
The assassin is believed to be a hired wizard from Glantri.
Punitive raids by Heldannic Knights against
Ethengarians.
Undead are reported in the waters to the south.
999 AC: The first vial of /crimson essence/ is
produced by an alchemist in Saragon. The secret spreads to a
group of adventurers, who become the first of the Inheritors.
Some of the Inheritors rise to power in the Brotherhood of
Order and the Friends of Freedom. To balance them, other
Inheritors join the Neutral Alliance. (RS)
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Andre Cavalcanti Rocha Martins {S <acrmarti@fma1.if.usp.br>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:25:50 -0200 (EDT)
Subject: [Mystara] The Alfheim War
We have been discussing this subject (as you all know) and it seems we
should have a consensus on when this war is going to happen, if it will be
happening at all. So I am asking you all to give your opinions about the
date, so we can work an "official" option. I believe the war should be
starting around 1015-1016, Herve feels (correct if I am wrong, please) it
would be better after 1020, but he hasn't suggested a year yet. Just post
when you believe thw war will be happening and I will count the votes.
Andre Martins
------------------------------
From: Scott Johnson <zagyg@io.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 12:43:07 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Revenge of the 'Noids: Addendum
On Wed, 9 Oct 1996, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote:
> Additionally, a note on the Great Migration:
>
> I figured that the lands of the Tiger clan would be as good a location as
> any to initially send the Migration. Naturally, once the Migration
> reaches there, the Atruaghin Clans will go nuts (remembering the invasion
> of the 'noids many years ago) and fighting will break out. I figure this
> won't necessarily end badly, though, once Atruaghin learns the reason for
> the 'noid migration. He will probably convince his immortals (and, thus,
> the Atruaghin people) to aid the Supreme Hool in his quest for the Blue
> Knife, for a couple of reasons:
>
> 1) Atruaghin is Atzanteotl's mortal enemy; anything that can put a kink
> in his plans will suit Atruaghin- I figure stopping one of Atzan's big
> kahunas is a good reason.
>
> 2) Atruaghin doesn't want any more bloodshed among his people than is
> necessary. The other Atruaghin immortals will likely agree (some more
> reluctantly than others).
>
> 3) The Red Orcs (the primary force in the migration), share many cultural
> elements with the Atruaghin people, which may make communication more
> easy between the two groups. Indeed, perhaps a better relationship may be
> reached between the two, which will help to allay fears of the 'noids
> among the Atruaghin people.
And not only that, but I seem to recall something very interesting from
GAZ10. In the Red Orcland description, under religion, it mentions that,
up until the defeat of Big Chief Sitting Drool, the Red Orcs followed the
faith of the Atruaghin Clans, which they'd picked up during their
occupation of those lands. That would seem to mean that, as recently as a
few centuries ago, Atruaghin was a patron of these humanoids. Perhaps
he's decided the time has come to bring his way to them again...
Great posts, BTW - I've always liked seeing the humanoid side of Mystara.
If I have time later, I might make a more detailed commentary...
- --
Scott Johnson |
zagyg@io.com | This space intentionally left blank.
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 12:58:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2
> >Is anyone interested in an evn longer, more detailed timeline?
>
> Oops. When i wrote this i had only gotten a few small parts of your timeline,
> Daniel, and had thought that was it. It appears your timeline is just as long
> and detailed as mine. Sorry.
<chuckles> 'Salright. I'd still like a copy of yours, if possible.. Have
you noticed any glaring discrepencies between the two yet? (ie, I'm
already on v1.3.. so far, I've placed the Dark Night novel and video
games, and mentioned that Alphaks finally found the Alphatians in 800
AC..)
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Matthew Levy <mlevy@orion.oac.uci.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:37:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 6
another little comment:
given the culture, dress, and attitudes of the Krugel orcs in the hollow
world, wouldn't it make more sense if they were transplanted from the
Savage Baronies (RS) area and not from part of the Great Horde in the KW?
m@2
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 12:22:57 -0400 (EST)
Subject: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 14
1006 AC: Torreon, Vilaverde, and Texeiras ally with
Narvaez, rather than fight that state. The other five baronies
(Guadalante, Cimmaron, Almarron, Saragon, and Gargon~a) ally
to fight against the Narvaez alliance. Gauchos and Swashbuckler
"freedom fighters" prove effective against the naval power and
mercenaries of the Narvaez alliance. (RS)
Hule attacks the Savage Baronies. The baronies end
their conflict to unite against Hule. (RS)
Spring: Glantrian wizard-adventurers travel to
Alphatia and harass the nobles there - fire-bombings,
hit-and-runs, and the like.
Spring: Duke Stefan declares Karameikos independent
from Thyatis, now the Kingdom of Karameikos.
Spring: Chandra ul Nervi hastily pulls together his
own army of Urduk nomads, mercenaries, brigands, and outlaws
from the Barren Plains and the Sind Desert to retake Sind
while its fighting forces are occupied in Darokin. His ragtag
army includes nearly 100 Karimari warriors with their /moto
moto rods/ and mounted on elephants and triceratops, a number
of Yavdlom warriors disgusted at their nation's policy of
non-interference with "destiny", and loyal Sindhis who fled
their homes when the civil war broke out. Panicking, Kiritan
withdraws his armies from Darokin to meet his brother's threat.
Spring: The forces of Karameikos (including some
werecreatures, although they try to keep that secret), Alfheim
and the Five Shires march to the defense of the city of
Darokin. They lift the siege, and over the next few weeks
slowly drive back the Desert Nomads. The Master's forces,
weakened by their sudden loss of manpower, begin to lose the
ground they had gained in Darokin.
Summer: As the eastern armies drive the Desert Nomads
from Darokin, Kiritan's armies barely manage to hold off
Chandra ul Nervi's irregular troops. Disgusted with this turn
of events, the Master diverts his reserve forces to reinforce
Kiritan's armies - rather than sending them to Darokin as he'd
originally planned. The sudden influx of humanoids turns the
tide against Chandra ul Nervi. His forces decimated and
scattered, the rajadhiraja flees back through Ulimwengu. The
Master relinquishes his hold on Darokin, but tightens his grip
on Sind.
Summer: Days after Chandra ul Nervi's defeat, a
devastating meteor sent by the Master of Desert Nomads smashes
through the skyshield and slams into the Darokin/Glantri
border. The impact creates an enormous crater north of Lake
Amsorak. It destroys a mountain range, and raises an
impenetrable cloud above the two nations. The resulting
earthquake knocks down buildings in Akesoli and devastates the
village of Chandbali. The dust cloud rising from the impact is
larger than some countries. It covers all of southern Glantri
and northern Darokin and extends over northeastern Sind. For
days it blocks the sun. When it finally settles, ash and dust
cover everything, smothering plants and fouling drinking
water. The harvest is ruined, and a winter famine threatens.
Fall: The trees of the Canolbarth begin to darken,
twist, and mutate, becoming increasingly inhospitable to the
elves.
Fall: The dwarves of Rockhome, dismayed at the events
of the surface world, retreat into their subterranean
communities.
Fall: The Master of Hule decides that Chandra ul Nervi
must be eliminated as a potential threat to the conquest of
Sind. He sends ten divisions across the Great Waste to
Ulimwengu, certain that 10,000 soldiers would be more than
enough to overrun the primitive Karimari forces and drive the
deposed ruler out of his hiding place. The few soldiers and
humanoids who survive the resulting massacre bring word of
Ulimwengu's magical defenses back to Hule. The Master is
surprised to learn that the Karimari are far more than they
appear. His magics penetrate the illusions that had kept the
truth of Shani Kijiji and the Karimari from him.
Fall: The Master's attack on Ulimwengu is enough to
convince even the most progressive-thinking Karimari to close
their borders once more. All refugees are politely asked to
leave - immediately. Chandra ul Nervi and Drisana Madha seek
shelter among the Yavdlom people.
Winter: The Great Khan of Ethengar, whose people have
suffered from several savage raids by the Heldannic Knights,
invades the Heldann Territories. His forces march straight to
the capital, Freiburg, and lay siege to it.
Winter: On the Isle of Dawn, the Alphatian army
attempts to secure the center of the island, turning its
attention to Redstone Castle.
Winter: Zealot followers of the "Desert Garden"
philosophy of Al-Kalim cross the Altan Tepes into northern
Thyatis, and take Fort Nikos without a single loss of life on
either side. The next day, they seize the town of Biazzan,
also without a fight.
1007 AC: Yazi gnolls attack the Savage Baronies, which
have been severely weakened by previous conflicts. The Master
of Hule sets a curse on his enemies, inflicting floods and
other natural disasters on the Savage Baronies. (RS)
Reston of Akesoli becomes King of Ierendi.
Spring: The Heldannic Knights and Empire of Thyatis
formally sign a treaty of alliance.
Summer: King Thar of the Broken Lands leads his
humanoid hordes in raids on southern Glantri, finally besieging
Glantri City itself.
Spring: Kiritan vows to root out the last of his
brother's supporters and begins a systematic program of
oppression. The Master of Hule and his agents are more than
happy to assist.
Spring: The Graakhalians stage a last-ditch effort to
drive the humanoids from Graakhalia. They're soundly defeated.
Nearly half their population has died fighting or of
starvation (no time for harvests) since Graakhalia was
invaded. The survivors retreat deep underground, into
territory hitherto unexplored.
Summer: On the Isle of Dawn, the Alphatians take
Newkirk in a surprise attack. Within a couple of weeks,
Redstone Castle's commanders surrender.
Summer: Thousands of humanoids from the Broken Lands
move into Glantri and Darokin; some enter northeastern Sind,
adding to its misery. A few spill over into Graakhalia.
Fall: The Ylari forces in Biazzan decide to withdraw.
The entire force slips away before the Thyatians are aware,
getting all their people and most of Biazzan's wealth across
the mountains safely.
Fall: Shadow Elves invade, conquer, and settle Alfheim,
transmuting the forest and forcing the Alfheim elves to flee
north to Wendar and south to Karameikos. Bands break away to
brave the Desert Nomads in search of the long-lost Sheyallia
elves. They find no sign of their brethren.
Winter: Plague erupts in the Heldann Freeholds,
starting in the city of Freiburg.
Winter: An elf from Alfheim stumbles on a Sheyallia
elf sheltering with a Sindhi family in Baratkand. The two
gather together as many elves as they can and enter Graakhalia
in search of the scattered Graakhalians.
Winter: Ochalea and the Pearl Island capitalize on the
war raging between Thyatis and Alphatia to declare their
independence.
Winter: The elves fleeing southward from Alfheim are
trapped by a harsh winter in the icy foothills of the Cruth
mountains.
1008 AC: The Savage Baronies again enter into border
conflicts. Tortles and other peasants revolt. In Almarron,
rebels oust their dictator and install a Baron descended from
their former noble rulers. The Colonial Revolt begins, and many
colonies rebel against their parent states. Yazak goblinoids
attack throughout the Savage Coast. (RS)
Countless uprisings, civil unrests, riots, and
assassination attempts disturb Kiritan ul Nervi's rule. The
Master orders him to tighten his control of his nation or
suffer the consequences.
Spring: Helskir is overrun by Alphatians, who quickly
sweep south and capture the northern 2/3 of the Isle of Dawn.
Within a few days, Eruul Zaar is crowned king of Helskir by
Empress Eriadna herself.
Spring: Military forces from the Five Shires join the
army of Darokin to help keep order there and defend Darokin
from the humanoids occupying the Great Crater.
Spring: The Alfheim elves reach Karameikos, and are
ceded land in the east of that kingdom.
Summer: Plague spreads throughout the north, reaching
Glantri through Ethengar. With little clerical magic to combat
it, Glantri's population is devastated. Lycanthropes seem just
as susceptible as normal folk, and the Valley of Wolves loses
many werewolves.
Summer: The many clerics of Heldann are increasingly
winning the war against the plague. Healthy combined forces
from the Heldannic Knights and Ostland penetrate into the
Ethengar Khanates and, at the community of Tromso, massacre
some of the armies which attacked their territories.
Summer: The Alphatian Naval Fleet sails around the
northern end of the Isle of Dawn and engages the Thyatian
fleet. Great harm is inflicted by both sides, and eventually
the Alphatian navy retreats to the Isle of Dawn.
Fall: Ethengarians attack Alfheim elves crossing their
territory to reach Wendar in the north.
Winter: Glantri is finally recovering from the plague,
and is able to drive most of the humanoids out of Glantri into
the Great Crater. Thar's hordes now decide to attack Darokin,
but are driven back by the armies there.
Winter: The Alphatian Navy makes landfall in Ylaruam,
at the town of Cubia, two days sailing from the Thyatian
border.
1009 AC: Chandra ul Nervi, sick at heart at the abuses
his brother has been heaping on the Sindhi people, surrenders
himself to an agent of the Master of Hule. He agrees to return
as Rajadhiraja - under Hule's control - in order to stop the
worst abuses. The Master sees this as a way to quiet Sind's
unrest and promptly replaces Kiritan with Chandra ul Nervi.
Spring: The Heldannic Knights launch a force to come,
somewhat belatedly, to Glantri's rescue. Knights make an epic
ride through Rockhome, Ylaruam, and Darokin, joining the
Darokin army in time to push Thar's forces down into the
Crater.
Spring: The Alphatian forces marching in by land slam
into Fort Zendrol and capture it. For the first time in
decades, Alphatian forces march across the border into
mainland Thyatis.
Summer: The Alphatian military machine rolls through
the Thyatian duchy of Tel Akbir.
Fall: The second group of Alfheim elves leaves the
northern Glantrian mountains and enters the nation of Wendar.
The Glantrian plague follows them there.
Fall: Thyatis, hard-pressed by the Alphatian military
juggernaut, sues Empress Eriadna for peace.
Fall: A storm of tremendous force deluges the Alphatian
city of Sundsvall with rain, hail, and lightning - and drains
the world of magic. For an entire week, no magic works, either
on Mystara or in the Hollow World. Lycanthropes can no longer
transform and are stuck in whatever form they were in when the
storm struck. When magic returns, so does lycanthropy and its
effects. The storm and its after-effects were caused by an
Immortal artifact, the Nucleus of the Spheres, the source of
the radiance, a magical power unique to Glantri. (KW/HW)
Fall: Magic stops working, and Yazak goblinoids sack
the capitol of Herath. Though magic is restored a few days
later, the Red Curse has spread across the coast. Inheritors of
the baronies begin introducing /cinnabryl/ throughout the
coast, while taking control of most of the /cinnabryl/ mines as
well. (RS)
Winter: The Thousand Wizards of Alphatia teleport to
the skies over Glantri City and begin a magical bombardment.
The Nucleus of the Spheres is destroyed and Glantri is
devastated. Immediately afterward, earthquakes rock Alphatia,
and the continent sinks deep beneath the sea. Etienne
d'Ambreville vanishes.
************* End of the "Wrath of the Immortals" *************
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V1 #260
*****************************
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mystara-digest Thursday, 10 October 1996 Volume 01 : Number 261
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 12:55:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mystara] Re: Missing Timelines
On 10 Oct 1996 kevinaug@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> I seemed to have lost some of the Mystara timeline posting in transit.
> Unfortuantly I missed parts ten, eleven and seven, and any more if they
> went after 12. It seems my internet provider decideded to chop the end off
> my mail on a pretty heavy day.
I sent the entire timeline, parts 1 to 15, within about 15 minutes of
each other; I assume that the server is taking it's own good time to send
the rest of the parts. If they still haven't arrived after a few days,
I'll re-send the missing parts - probably cutting them in half, in case
they were simply too large.
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Matthew Levy <mlevy@orion.oac.uci.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:05:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 8
Great work on integrating the timelines ... you can get a much more
interesting picture by seeing how all the parts of the world interact. I
see two problems though ... first of all, you have Minroth traders
spreading lycanthropy around the KW in the early 4th century, but
Minrothad is politically disunified still at this time, Ierendi is still
unknown, and there can't be much international trade since the Ostland
pirates can pretty much kick the shit out of anybody on the high seas ...
maybe there is some limited Minrothian shipping, but nothing like what
they develop later.
Second problem: I know the Red Steel set says Lupins have been in Renardy
for centuries, but it seemed like the general consensus on the list was
that the Renardois are emigrants from Nouvelle Averoigne, which means they
can't have gotten to the SC until after the arrival of the d'Ambrevilles,
which (IIRC) is in the 7th or 8th century, not the 6th ...
anybody know the solution to this one?
m@2
------------------------------
From: Matthew Levy <mlevy@orion.oac.uci.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:26:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bargle the Infamous
On Wed, 9 Oct 1996, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Oct 1996, Robert Kaelin wrote:
>
> > b) Bargle's good at gaining power by taking it form others. With mages
> > dying out left and right while Glantri and Alphatia nuke one another
> > wouldn't there be a LOT of abandonded mages towers, secret caches, and
> > other wizards possessions laying about. (If one is talented enough to find
> > them, of course. And Bargle is no slouch.) Maybe he spent the entire WotI
> > scrying and watching for mage battles, noting which participants fall in
> > the fight, find out where they live and then teleport to their towers with
> > about 50 dispel magics on scrolls for the latent defences around the tower
> > and do a litte "house cleaning". OK, it's a stretch to say that would make
> > him 30th, but it could make him REALLY impressive.
>
> So _that's_ what he was really doing over there in Alphatian territory!
> Looting the towers of dead Alphatian mages!
>
> Actually, it makes a lot of sense- most/many of the 1000 36th level mages
> were slain in the Great War, and must have left oodles of treasure troves
> around for anyone enterprising enough to find them- particularly a
> powerful mage who could bypass the magical and monsterful (is that a
> word?- don't answer, I know it isn't...) traps left behind.
>
>
Hey wait a second ... how can you loot mage's towers on a continent that
has either sunk beneath the sea or been forcibly removed from the face of
the planet by angry immortals? there might be *some* treasure left in
Floating Ar, the colonies, and the undersea city ... but THIS treasure
woudn't be left unguarded since those mages are still around ...
m@2
------------------------------
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 21:13:16 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] World Games
At 17.52 08/10/96 -0400, John Yu wrote:
>Fabrizio Paoli pontificated:
>Does anyone else felt that holding the World Games once per year is
>a bit too often. Consider the difficulty of travel, the amount of
>organization required, the lack of wealth of general population, etc.
>Once per year seems to be a bit too much. There are a reason that
>Olympic is held only once every 4 years. I think the World Game
>should probably held at most once every 2 years. Just IMO, of
>course.
>
Probably you're right, but think in game terms: for DMs that play their
campaigns day by day (like me) it's nicer to ahve the World Games take place
each year and for PCs too, IMO.
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it
DM in City Of The Stars
aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton
aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr
Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html
------------------------------
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 21:39:09 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bargle the Infamous
For those who like to add humor to their campaigns there's a good column on
Bargle the Infamous in Dragon #216 (April 1995).
Basically it says that before WotI Bargle acquired a lot of money selling
self-help books that he mass-produced on his magical printing press.
After the fall of Fort Doom Bargle, using that money and the one stolen from
the Black Eagle, founded the BeB Magic Company in Darokin and hired many
wizards to sell all over the KW his books and his ring collections ("limited
editions").
A brief description of the books and the rings follows. For example there's
the Invisible Ring, that beacme invisible when worn :-)
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it
DM in City Of The Stars
aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton
aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr
Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 16:27:19 -0400 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Alfheim War
> We have been discussing this subject (as you all know) and it seems we
> should have a consensus on when this war is going to happen, if it will be
> happening at all. So I am asking you all to give your opinions about the
> date, so we can work an "official" option. I believe the war should be
> starting around 1015-1016, Herve feels (correct if I am wrong, please) it
> would be better after 1020, but he hasn't suggested a year yet. Just post
> when you believe thw war will be happening and I will count the votes.
My own opinion (and remember, it's only that :) ), is that it would be
just before 1020 AC. I believe that there should be at least a few years'
buildup until the war itself, but it should also be before "OrcWars II"
(see Timeline part 15 :) ), when all those humans are moving up through
Darokin. Say.. 1018 to 1019 or so.
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 22:21:49 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Alfheim War
At 05.23 10/10/96 -0200, you wrote:
>On Wed, 9 Oct 1996, Herve MUSSEAU wrote:
>
>> You're right, the destruction of the Canolbarth forest should bring
>> climatic changes in the KW. And not only in Ylaruam, I guess. Any ideas?
>
>I think we should not go too far on this or we will end up destroying many
>cultures. Imagine the ethengarians if there is no longer the steppes. But
>some changes would happen.
>
>The most obvious is that it starts raining in Ylaruam. In the first years,
>it will be just a small increase in the rain, as could happen in good
>years. Then, in 1015, or 1016, a big rain happens in the desert for
>the first time. It is not a tropical storm, but the water they would
>expect in six months come down in about one hour. And one month later it
>happens again.
>
>Darokin should become drier. Part of its rains happened due to the forest
>humidity. Severe droughts could happen there.
Maybe the forested area around Aengmor may become drier, but I don't think
the Streel Plain would suffer any drought, though the combined effects of
the meteor in the Amsorak mountains and the corruption of the Canolbarth
forest would be felt for years in Darokin.
>Do we have an expert on
>mystaran weather around? I have no idea why the northern reaches are so
>cold, if there is any magical reason as there was for the ylari desert, so
>I can make no other guesses.
>
>> ok, they want to get their power back. But they also need to be very
>> cautious, since they are carefully watched by other Immortals. And they
>> will probably get involved only if there is no risk.
>> BTW: Atzanteotl doesn't feel like Rafiel made him suffer from a major
>> stroke, in fact he believes that Rafiel is an ally (see Fabrizio's
>> timeline). The both of them cooperated during WotI, and he still doesn't
>> suspect that Rafiel is good and was a double agent for Rad.
>
>Maybe that's because I feel a little diferent about this events, as I
>believe I have posted once sometime ago, when Fabrizio posted the first
>version for his timeline. Atzanteotl is a subtle ploter, so it just
>happened to me he could be doublecrossing Rafiel. He know him for what he
>is (Rafiel sided with Rad openly in the argument with Ixion before anybody
>else did it) and he was using him all the time to infiltrate his SE.
>Someone has posted a timeline with SE-Schatenallfen encounters (was it you
>Fabrizio?) and both civilization seemed to be aware they were diferent. So
>I believe Atzanteotl is just preparing Aengmor fall. He will want to keep
>using Rafiel, so he won't try to take the City of Stars at this point, but
>no shaman would be willing to live on the surface where their cristals
>would be destroyed. So he would just be "helping" sending some of his
>clerics to take care of the SE's good health.
Interesting idea, doublecrossing the doublecrosser...
BTW: it was Herve, not me, that posted the timeline abou SE-Shattenhalfen.
About Atzanteotl, have you never figured out how many followers has Atzanteotl ?
Shattenhalfen, Azcans, some of the Shadow Elves, Oenkmarians (the humanoids
before the invasion), various humanoids here and there, Viper clan among
Atruaghins, Manscorpions in the Orc's Head Peninsula. Did I forget someone ?
This makes really a huge number of followers and of so many different races.
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it
DM in City Of The Stars
aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton
aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr
Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html
------------------------------
From: David Keyser <davidk@Synopsys.COM>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 14:24:55 -0700
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2
> From owner-mystara-l@lists.io.com Thu Oct 10 13:38:10 1996
> X-Authentication-Warning: NiagaraNet.npiec.on.ca: dboese owned process doing -bs
> Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 12:58:35 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
> To: mystara-l@io.com
> Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type> : > TEXT/PLAIN> ; > charset=US-ASCII>
> Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com
> Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com
> Content-Length: 626
>
> > >Is anyone interested in an evn longer, more detailed timeline?
> >
> > Oops. When i wrote this i had only gotten a few small parts of your timeline,
> > Daniel, and had thought that was it. It appears your timeline is just as long
> > and detailed as mine. Sorry.
>
> <chuckles> 'Salright. I'd still like a copy of yours, if possible.. Have
> you noticed any glaring discrepencies between the two yet? (ie, I'm
> already on v1.3.. so far, I've placed the Dark Night novel and video
> games, and mentioned that Alphaks finally found the Alphatians in 800
> AC..)
>
> --
> Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
>
Dan,
The book makes some indirect references, and I concluded from them that the
majority of the book takes place about 1018 AC. And the prologue takes place
20 years earlier. Do you concur?
And do you need any more info on the video games? I assume you are using the
info I posted on this newsgroup a while ago. Or maybe you have played those
games as well.
Dave Keyser
------------------------------
From: David Keyser <davidk@Synopsys.COM>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 14:27:43 -0700
Subject: Re: [Mystara] I, Tyrant?
>
> At 11:56 8-10-96 -0700, you wrote:
> >>Is there really information SPECIFIC to MYSTARAN beholders in there or is it
> >>only useful stuff in general? If there is specific stuff in there, how much?
> >
> >I leafed through it at the store. Lots of general information on
> beholders, and
> >is compatible with Mystara beholders.
> >
> >But there is ONE specific paragraph on Mystara beholders, five or six lines
> >which describe the appearance of Mystara beholders(which look different in FR,
> >Greyhawk, etc.). I read it, and to summarize, from memory, Mystara beholders
> >are brown.
> >
> >Dave Keyser
>
> That's it? That's the Mystara part?
>
> Bas van Doornspeek
>
Ok, I dropped by the bookstore and browsed through it again. Mystara beholders
have mottled brown or green skin, and eyelids for all of their eyes. If they
lay on the ground and close their eyes and drape their eyestalks across their
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body, they can pass for a moss or mud encrusted boulder, even close up. So they
can easily suprise PCs this way. I believe it gave the length of the eyestalks
too, 2 - 2 1/2 feet? I forget.
That is it.
Dave Keyser
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 16:34:02 -0400 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bargle the Immortal?
(Don't mind me.. I'm just jumping into this thread, finally.)
> >>In my campaign there is a simple rule:
> >>there has to be reasons for things to happen.
> >Cool, here are my simple rules.
> >
> >1) There's a dozen reasons behind anything if you look hard enough
> >and 2) Coming up with good story and a good adventure beats sitting around
> >coming up with reasons any day.
> Why would a DM be looking hard for reasons?
> It doesn't take that much work.
> With your knowledge of Bargle you ask yourself,
> "What would Bargle do?"
> The adventure is then based on that answer
Why not do both? Think up "What would Bargle do?" for one adventure, and
make another adventure up from scratch, working out the reasons as you go?
There's no law saying that anybody has to do it either way.. if the DM has
fun DMing, and the players have fun playing, then I consider the game a
success. :)
> >>People don't instantly attain 30th level.
> >>Reaching Immortality isn't a common thing.
> >Obviously. I never said it should be a common thing. Neither should the
> >Immortals waging war on each other all over Mystara, or an Old One just
> >appearing and sucking an Immortals lifeforce into an artifact, or whole new
> >world be discovered (like MOrient), or the World Games, etc. But they
> >happen. :-)
> We're not talking about an event here.
> Were talking about the QUEST for Immortality.
A high-level character achieving Immortality is as much an event as
anything else.. My own favorite Immortal candidate is the Thyatian
werewolf/fox/bear/bat from PC4 - he's going to ascend just after his
'opponent', the insane Alphatian mage-were does.. :)
> Immortality happens !!!!!!!!!!???
Why not? Pick a random high-level, un-retired adventurer, and it's just
possible they may be secretly questing for Immortality.. and if they're
doing so in the sphere of Time, they might become Immortal anytime after
(or before! :) ) they start Questing. With the variable time-rates in
other planes.. who says that any particular candidate hasn't spent >50
years on their quest? :)
> >>If bargle can reach immortality by taking abandoned wizard towers, etc.
> >No, I thought this was simpler. He became powerful (or more powerful) by
> >taking over abandonded towers.
> Whose abandoned towers?
> How did he find them?
> Why has no one else on the planed found these towers?
One large group of abandoned towers would be the ones in sunken Alphatia
- - Bargle's a smart lad, and should be able to find a Water Breathing ring
somewhere. :)
> >He will then try to attain Immortality by
> >turning all of Mystara upside down and displaying his superiority at
> >intrigue, subtetly and general meanness over just about every other living
> >being.
Hm.. which particular Immortal would sponsor him, do you think? He sounds
like somebody Thanatos would like, to me..
> >>Anyone could attain Immortality.
> >>I think it ruins the point of Immortality by granting it so easily.
> >Who does it ruin it for? (There. I've just created 15 new Immortals in my
> >campaign world all from level 1 ninnies. Are you feeling that? I'll worry
> >about maintaining the 'point of Immortality' in my own campaign, but thanks
> >for the feedback.) :-)
> >I could see an argument that it ruins the point of Immortality for the
> >players. But thankfully I haven't played with players in quite a while who
> >were childish enough to say anything remotely like "But the NPC's did
> >it...why can't we?" Why do they even have to know?
> It will ruin it for the players.
> Any player who knows about Mystara will lose respect for the DM when they
> meet a cleric of Bargle the Immortal,
> leaving the players thinking how else has this guy distorted Mystara.
> The Immortal Bargle the Infamous may fit perfectly on another world
> but not on Mystara.
I can see your point, but I don't necessarily agree with it. I try to
keep my Mystara as close to TSR's canon as I can, but that's not always
possible, due to (for example) lapses of memory in the middle of play, or
not having a particular supplement (not everybody has a spare $300 and
access to a store which sells them all :) ).
When I play in Mystara, as opposed to running it, I know that not all DMs
share my pickiness for every single detail from >20 books and boxes, and
expect minor changes. But when I see a major change (such as, heaven
forbid, they make a high-level mortal an Immortal), I grin and take it..
and consider including the idea in my own campaign. :)
> >>How many centuries has Barimoor been working for it?
> >Couldn't tell you. Don't care either. It's just an idea for an adventure,
> >I never said it would happen overnight. :-)
> Barimoor is a couple centuries away from completing this quest -
> a couple CENTURIES, not overnight at all.
> Bargle is only in his 50's.
> Reaching immortality at 50 must be a record.
Actually, it isn't. Most of the humanoid Immortals achieved Immortality
before then - they have fairly short lifespans.
> >>If you're looking for a character 30th level, thoroughly evil,
> >>trying to reach Immortality with a bunch of followers
> >>who wont hesitate to start a war,
> >>why dont you use the Master of Hule or Barimoor?
> >Because the Master is overused
> Overused by who?
I don't think he's overused myself - but he does seem to be the only
person anybody thinks of when they ask themselves "Now, I need a powerful
spellcaster, almost Immortal, to run this worldwide fiendish plot...". :)
> >and I've never heard of this Barimoor character. :-)
> He's a 36th level evil mage in Ylaruam questing for Immortality,
> with dozens of 12th+ level mages, dozens of intelligent weapons and multiple
> artifacts.
Ah yes, Barimoor.. Do you think he might already be Immortal, having
ascended during the WotI? Or would adventurers have set him back a few
decades?
> >>They've already created this character
> >>except it's Hule, Barimoor, McGregor etc... not Bargle.
> >"They've" already created this character?
> >Heaven's forbid "MY", or assuming I haven't yet
> >ostracized everyone who agrrees with me "OUR", Bargle be anything else.
> Check out the Glantri Gaz - there's an incredible amount of NPCs,
> all of which have histories and all have REASONS to do what they are
> doing.
Simple greed and lust for power isn't a reason to try and become an
Immortal of Entropy? Hm.. from what I recall, that's the reason that most
Entropics quested in the first place. I could be wrong, though - anybody
have an example or two for either way?
> >Ideas are like busses, if you don't
> >like the one in front of you just let it go; I'm sure another one will by
> >in a few minutes that's more to your liking. But please don't come after
> >me for hopping on and seeing where it's going. :-) (But don't get me
> >wrong, you're still invited for the ride if you want... The more the
> >merrier.)
> What in the world are you talking about????
<grin> It's called a metaphor (or is that allegory?). Basically, he's
saying that everybody has ideas all the time, and should go ahead and
follow up whichever ones they want to.
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Matthew Levy <mlevy@orion.oac.uci.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 14:57:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Alfheim War
On Wed, 9 Oct 1996, Roundhouse wrote:
>
> There should not be too much of an increase in the rain. The Altan Tepes
> mountains will still prevent much of the rain from crossing into Ylaruam.
You're missing the whole point. The original Elven spell REVERSED the
flow of weather in the entire KW. If the spell is destroyed, rain will
begin moving in from the EAST over the sea and into the Alasiyan desert,
which will become lush and fertile again. The rains which move through
Darokin and into the Canolbarth will dwindle and die, leaving the whole of
Darokin a dry wasteland. These are the stakes of such a war.
m@2
------------------------------
From: Matthew Levy <mlevy@orion.oac.uci.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 14:43:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Your Last
On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Geoff Gander wrote:
> >
> > My address is 1233 Verano Place, Irvine, CA 92715.
> > I won't actually be home until the 24th of this month, but if you still
> > have a month to go on the descriptions, then I suppose it's irrelevant; I
> > am very interested in seeing your map, so keep me posted.
> >
> > m@2
>
> OK, the map is ready. I will mail it off to you shortly, but I have
> a question to clarify. Is the above address still correct? And finally...
Oof! I'd almost forgotten about this, though I am of course still
interested ... the above address is still correct.
>
> Do you also want a copy of the documentation I wrote for this map
> as well? I added about 10 new cities, and I am working on a description of
> them (shouldn't take too much longer). If you want the descriptions as
> well, your package will arrive later, and I would have to charge you a bit
> more. This brings me to my other question, how much would you be willing
> to pay?
Well, before I can answer that you have to answer a question for
me ... as a native born Canadian I am ashamed to admit this, but I'm not
sure what the exchange rates are like these days .... Yes I am interested
in the documentation too. I understand the kind of effort that goes into
something like this and would never want to stiff a fellow artist ...
why don't you tell me what you think is a fair price for your time (in
US$, if you could be so kind) and I can get back to you ... at any rate I
won't be able to send any money until I get my financial aid check next
thursday. I look forward to seeing your work.
m@2
> As much as
I'd love to send it for free, unfortunately I
can't. > At least 12 hours went into drawing and colouring the map, and
> photocopying (colour) will cost $3.50 (Canadian) for one sheet. Added to
> that will be shipping and handling to the US (though that shouldn't be too
> expensive).
> I you could answer me, it would greatly help in sending the map
> (at least) off to you.
>
> Geoff
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Geoff Gander
> Political Science IV
> Carleton University
> General wanderer by principle, adventurer by profession
> Email address: ggander@chat.carleton.ca
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:16:17 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bargle the Infamous
On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Matthew Levy wrote:
> Hey wait a second ... how can you loot mage's towers on a continent that
> has either sunk beneath the sea or been forcibly removed from the face of
> the planet by angry immortals? there might be *some* treasure left in
> Floating Ar, the colonies, and the undersea city ... but THIS treasure
> woudn't be left unguarded since those mages are still around ...
I was wondering if someone was going to call me on this. :)
I don't know. Maybe he stole one of those Alphatian submersibles, or
borrowed King Xanthus' submersible (the _real_ reason he went to work for
him?) and explored around. We know that Zandor tried to explore the area,
why not anyone else? It makes sense that there is oodles of good stuff
down there for anyone with the resources and desire to get it... And I
think we all agree that Bargle has both of these.
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:03:28 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Revenge of the 'Noids: Addendum
On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Scott Johnson wrote:
> And not only that, but I seem to recall something very interesting from
> GAZ10. In the Red Orcland description, under religion, it mentions that,
> up until the defeat of Big Chief Sitting Drool, the Red Orcs followed the
> faith of the Atruaghin Clans, which they'd picked up during their
> occupation of those lands. That would seem to mean that, as recently as a
> few centuries ago, Atruaghin was a patron of these humanoids. Perhaps
> he's decided the time has come to bring his way to them again...
You noticed that too, eh? I thought that was an interesting little bit
myself.
The way I figure it, though, the 'noids must have worshipped some of the
other Atruaghin Immortals (like Tahkati Horstamer), as Atruaghin didn't
officially become immortal until he returned to drive the 'noids out of
his clan's lands. They probably worshipped those Atruaghin immortals (or
aspects of them- I can't see those Immortals actually assisting the
'noids who enslaved their people)- up until the time of Wogar's ascension
to Immortality.
After that, all bets were off. They converted, Atruaghin kicked them out.
Now, though, I could see Wogar having good relations with the other
Atruaghin immortals (perhaps), and the Migration could come to peaceful
accomodations with the Atruaghin pantheon (with the exception of Danel
Tigerstripes and Atzanteotl).
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V1 #261
*****************************
mystara-digest Friday, 11 October 1996 Volume 01 : Number 262
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 19:24:29 -0400 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2
> > (ie, I'm already on v1.3.. so far, I've placed the Dark Night novel
> > and video games
> The book makes some indirect references, and I concluded from them that the
> majority of the book takes place about 1018 AC. And the prologue takes place
> 20 years earlier. Do you concur?
It's been a little while since I've read it.. I'll dig up my copy and get
back to you. That sounds about right, though.
> And do you need any more info on the video games? I assume you are using the
> info I posted on this newsgroup a while ago. Or maybe you have played those
> games as well.
All I know about the video games is from what you posted, and a the
"Unoffical Dungeons And Dragons 2: Shadow Over Mystara FAQ V1.1" by
Bradley Jayakody(s337186@student.uq.edu.au). If you have any more info..
please, post it or email me. :)
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 19:43:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Meteor (was: The Alfheim War)
Fabrizio Paoli pontificated:
>
> Maybe the forested area around Aengmor may become drier, but I don't think
> the Streel Plain would suffer any drought, though the combined effects of
> the meteor in the Amsorak mountains and the corruption of the Canolbarth
> forest would be felt for years in Darokin.
>
Humm, never thought about the meteor effect on climates. If meteor of
that size struck Earth, it will probably kick up engough dust to
cause a neuclear winter effect. But since there are no mention of
that, should we just assume a magical meteor work differently from
a real meteor?
Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu
(1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu
(2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept.
Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely
irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur.
------------------------------
From: Estlor <estlor@geocities.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 21:34:25 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Alfheim War
>
> You're missing the whole point. The original Elven spell REVERSED the
> flow of weather in the entire KW. If the spell is destroyed, rain will
> begin moving in from the EAST over the sea and into the Alasiyan desert,
> which will become lush and fertile again. The rains which move through
> Darokin and into the Canolbarth will dwindle and die, leaving the whole of
> Darokin a dry wasteland. These are the stakes of such a war.
>
> m@2
Yikes! If that is the case, putting the war off till around 1020 AC
doesn't seem likely. Sure, Ylari might like things the way they are,
but Darokin would surely jump in on the elves side. And Darokin tends
to have some clout when it comes to involvement with other realms...hmm
Estlor
------------------------------
From: Matthew Levy <mlevy@orion.oac.uci.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 13:51:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bargle the Infamous
hey, can we call the Bargle flame war quits already? Both of you should
realize there are lots of philosophies about how games should be run and
neither of you is achieving any success in convincing the other ... give
it up already, or argue in private. I realize Fabrizio and I got in the
same kind of hullabaloo about the "true nature" of military ranks with
regard to character levels (months ago), but we both realized that each
Mystara works according to the logic that its DM is most comfortable with,
and while you have a right to think someone else's logic is screwy, these
kinds of unresolvable ego conflicts are not the purpose of this list.
let's move on to areas where we can actually get somewhere.
m@2
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 16:49:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2
> Great work on integrating the timelines ... you can get a much more
> interesting picture by seeing how all the parts of the world interact.
<smiles> Thank you. That's the main reason I typed it all out.
> I
> see two problems though ... first of all, you have Minroth traders
> spreading lycanthropy around the KW in the early 4th century, but
> Minrothad is politically disunified still at this time, Ierendi is still
> unknown, and there can't be much international trade since the Ostland
> pirates can pretty much kick the shit out of anybody on the high seas ...
> maybe there is some limited Minrothian shipping, but nothing like what
> they develop later.
Welp, to take a few entries...
0 AC: Thyatians do some trading with Minroth islanders.
284 AC: Minrothian and Alphatian cultures clash on
Dread Island over slave trading issues; elves force the humans
to make peace.
360 AC: Minroth traders carry slaves for Thyatian
Empire; halfling slaves are introduced to the Isles of Dread.
410 AC: Minroth traders unwittingly help spread the
new vampirism and lycanthropy throughout the seafaring world,
including the Kingdom of Undersea.
Minrothian shipping doesn't have to be anywhere near what it is later -
all it needed was a single weremerchant per species wandering around the
Sea of Dread to spread the lycanthropy.
> Second problem: I know the Red Steel set says Lupins have been in Renardy
> for centuries, but it seemed like the general consensus on the list was
> that the Renardois are emigrants from Nouvelle Averoigne, which means they
> can't have gotten to the SC until after the arrival of the d'Ambrevilles,
> which (IIRC) is in the 7th or 8th century, not the 6th ...
The d'Ambrevilles arrived in Mystara in 728 AC.
> anybody know the solution to this one?
Hm. Perhaps the lupins who settle in pre-Renardy are the tribal sort, and
are later 'civilized' by incoming Averoignian Renardois? There's plenty of
precedent for mixing cultures on this planet.. :)
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: s9406058@student.anu.edu.au (Shawn)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 13:10:50 -0600
Subject: [Mystara] Re: Timeline v1.2 part 10
> 1150 AC: The deaths of High King Maramet of Vestland
>and his sole heir throw the nation into a political turmoil.
>The Sorona, the enchanted crown of Vestland, is sought by
>various factions hoping to claim the throne.
I thought that this event is now officially in the past. Don't the PWA's say
that the current King of Vestland, Harald Gudmundson I think it is, was
King Maramets' heir in the module X13, I can't remember what his name was.
What is the "official-net-word" on this then?
Shawn Stanley
I am a QHQGMEEEBBGAU Mystaran
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/index.html
------------------------------
From: David Keyser <davidk@Synopsys.COM>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 14:12:00 -0700
Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Alfheim War
I vote 1020-1021.
Dave Keyser
------------------------------
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 22:36:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bargle the Infamous
About Bargle, I never really consider him as a world shattering
type of villain, more of the pesky type of villain. The type
that will constant annoying the party but don't have the power
to destory the party easily (unlike the Master, who is quite a bit
more powerful than the party unless the party receive alot of
help). Bargle probably just stay a few levels ahead of the average
party member and constantly be a pain, but the party can never
quite get rid of him either. If he is really as cunning as some
people think he is, I don't think he will hang around a relatively
small time bad guy Ludwig for so many years. Just my 2 cents.
- --
Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering
Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu
(1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu
(2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept.
Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely
irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur.
------------------------------
From: Robert Kaelin <kaelin@natural.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 23:10:53 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bargle the Infamous
>On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Matthew Levy wrote:
>
>> Hey wait a second ... how can you loot mage's towers on a continent that
>> has either sunk beneath the sea or been forcibly removed from the face of
>> the planet by angry immortals? there might be *some* treasure left in
>> Floating Ar, the colonies, and the undersea city ... but THIS treasure
>> woudn't be left unguarded since those mages are still around ...
>
>I was wondering if someone was going to call me on this. :)
:-)
It is a good point. Not horrible to get around however.
36th level mages can teleport without error essentially at will. There's
no reason to believe some of them didn't have towers, caches, summer homes,
secret rendevous', last ditch defensible wharehouses, etc, etc, etc,
outside of Alphatia proper. With a war obviously coming wouldn't a bunch
of mages move their more precious items, delicate experiments, or other
spare caches to place a little calmer in case a quick get away is required,
or things turn for the worse and someplace is needed to retreat to? (You
don't get to be a successful mage unless you can learn to prepare for every
possible contingency.) A lot of mages, particularly the old and powerful
ones, tend to be paranoid, especially of other mages, and living in a
country filled with them might be a little too scary for some of them.
What difference does it matter anyway to an arch-mage if he teleports form
his tower to the capital of Alphatia for council meetings if he lives 5
miles away or 5000? What difference does it make to Bargle if he
teleports without error to get there himself?
Plus, at least in my campaign, many mages fell before the actual continent
sank. (I have a Glantri based campaign and one party spent about 2 years
of time doing some cloak and dagger stuff inside Alphatia long before the
proverbial "sink or swim".) They managed to kill one actual council
member, a long time rival, 4 of his 6 apprentices and a bunch of lesser,
non-associated mages before they left. By no means did they find and take
everything the mages had hidden away for a rainy day.
Maybe someone was following them around without their knowledge? Maybe
that person had a couple magic items more suited to the task of ransacking
towers. (Wand of secret door detection, gem of seeing, the occaisonal
contact other plane spell, etc.) Maybe he just got lucky and found the
occaisonal secret door in rooms that my party never thought, or had time,
to search for them in. (Great searchers my players at the time were not.)
Maybe he was Bargle. :-)
- -Bob
- ----------------------------------------------------------
Bob Kaelin Natural Intelligence, Inc.
E-mail: Kaelin@natural.com 725 Concord Ave.
Phone: (617) 876-7680 x1253 Cambridge, Ma. 02138
WWW:<http://www.natural.com> USA
- ----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Herve MUSSEAU <musseauh@esiee.fr>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 08:19:24 +0200
Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Alfheim War
Estlor wrote:
>
> >
> > You're missing the whole point. The original Elven spell REVERSED the
> > flow of weather in the entire KW. If the spell is destroyed, rain will
> > begin moving in from the EAST over the sea and into the Alasiyan desert,
> > which will become lush and fertile again. The rains which move through
> > Darokin and into the Canolbarth will dwindle and die, leaving the whole of
> > Darokin a dry wasteland. These are the stakes of such a war.
> >
> > m@2
> Yikes! If that is the case, putting the war off till around 1020 AC
> doesn't seem likely. Sure, Ylari might like things the way they are,
> but Darokin would surely jump in on the elves side. And Darokin tends
> to have some clout when it comes to involvement with other realms...hmm
>
> Estlor
Well, there is another option. The Darokinians are not warlike, and they
try hard to establish diplomatic relations with the SE. If they can
figure out that the end of the magical rains means that their fertile
land may become dry too, they'll try their best to help the SE in their
efforts to make rain happen again in the forest (remember the stuff
about the help from the Shyie-Lawr?). If they succeeed, at least
partially, the SE should be grateful and maybe more open to strangers
and become viable (ie, quite open-minded) neighbors.
BTW, the mere fact that SE want the rain back might lead the
nature-loving races and Immortals realize that they didn't really intend
to do what they did... and that they're maybe not that evil after all.
- --
Herve Musseau
Primary Email: musseauh@esiee.fr
Secondary Email: herve@hotmail.com
Homepage: http://www.esiee.fr/~musseauh
I'm a QSQWBEEEGGNFR Mystaran
------------------------------
From: Herve MUSSEAU <musseauh@esiee.fr>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 07:53:56 +0200
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bargle the Immortal?
Daniel Boese wrote:
> > >and I've never heard of this Barimoor character. :-)
> > He's a 36th level evil mage in Ylaruam questing for Immortality,
> > with dozens of 12th+ level mages, dozens of intelligent weapons and multiple
> > artifacts.
> Ah yes, Barimoor.. Do you think he might already be Immortal, having
> ascended during the WotI? Or would adventurers have set him back a few
> decades?
IIRC I read in the PWAs or JA strange stings happening in Ylaruam that
reminded me of Barimoor and his methods (but it's a long time since I
read Gaz2). So I believe he's still questing, although a renew in
activity might be that he's nearing it now.
- --
Herve Musseau
Primary Email: musseauh@esiee.fr
Secondary Email: herve@hotmail.com
Homepage: http://www.esiee.fr/~musseauh
I'm a QSQWBEEEGGNFR Mystaran
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 14:51:09 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Time Immortals
On Wed, 9 Oct 1996, David Keyser wrote:
> My own preference is that the timeline does not get altered by those who go
> back into the past. In play, mortals and Immortals can go back in time, and
> perform actions that will affect the timeline, but coming back, find out that
> those actions were consistent with and/or necessary for the timeline they
> started with. This would require that all Time Immortals have performed their
> actions in the actual future(or past) of the one(and only one) timeline.
I call this the "Bill and Ted Theory of Time Travel" myself; time is like
a Mobius loop, wherein everything that has happened has already happened
and everything that will happen has/will already have happened...
The difficulty in this is finding the right terminology to use to
describe it- like in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (Zaphod willan
on haven gone to the Restaurant at the End of the Universe).
Given that, as has been pointed out, there are Immortals (Yav) whose
actions have had direct effects on the timeline, I like the thought that
the PC's actions will affect the _actual_ timeline, following the
guidlines above ("So those adventurers who helped King Uther were really
us? Are us? Willan on haven been us? Huh?")
I also think it would be interesting for Al-Kalim to show up again (maybe
not as himself; perhaps in disguise) but I don't think he would likely
show up during the Kin/Preceptor war of 1014- don't candidates for Time
have to go further into their future than this would be? (If not, I don't
see any reason for him not to show up, then.)
In one of my projects, a cartoon set in Mystara, one of the antagonists
is a time traveller with some very interesting secrets...
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:13:26 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 8
On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Matthew Levy wrote:
> Great work on integrating the timelines ... you can get a much more
> interesting picture by seeing how all the parts of the world interact. I
> see two problems though ... first of all, you have Minroth traders
> spreading lycanthropy around the KW in the early 4th century, but
> Minrothad is politically disunified still at this time, Ierendi is still
> unknown, and there can't be much international trade since the Ostland
> pirates can pretty much kick the shit out of anybody on the high seas ...
> maybe there is some limited Minrothian shipping, but nothing like what
> they develop later.
On lycanthropy-
I love PC4 by Ann Dupuis, but it seems to imply (or maybe it says
straight out, I don't recall) that Lycanthropy didn't exist on Mystara
until the Alphatians' Planetfall.
Information in the DA series contradicts this, however, as one of the
characters of Blackmoor, the northern baron (can't think of his name
offhand), was infected with Lycanthropy by the minions of the Egg of Coot.
I suppose it is possible that this was an isolated incident, as it was
_magically_ inflicted, and the Egg of Coot is from another world (perhaps
Alphatian? Though I doubt it...). Perhaps this case was the very first
recorded incident of Lycanthropy ever on Mystara?
Any thoughts?
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:08:29 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Alfheim War
On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Andre Cavalcanti Rocha Martins {S wrote:
> We have been discussing this subject (as you all know) and it seems we
> should have a consensus on when this war is going to happen, if it will be
> happening at all. So I am asking you all to give your opinions about the
> date, so we can work an "official" option. I believe the war should be
> starting around 1015-1016, Herve feels (correct if I am wrong, please) it
> would be better after 1020, but he hasn't suggested a year yet. Just post
> when you believe thw war will be happening and I will count the votes.
I'm not sure when the Alfheim War should take place, but I have been
discussing with Michael Roy the possibility of the 'noids coming under
fire in 1020 (as per GAZ10). From my suggestions of placing the orcs in
the Orclands of Darokin, and his placement of Thar/Psa'gh in Eastern
Rockhome, it seems that a joint operation by them in the future against
Rockhome may not be at all unlikely. If Rockhome (weakened after civil
war, war with 'noids, civil war again, and war in Oenkmar) were to fall,
or at least seem in danger of falling, surely that would give both
Darokin and Thyatis cause to prevent it- leading to their joint
operations against the 'noids in those areas.
A war with Shadowelves in the same year would only further complicate
things, but that isn't a reason not to do it. ;)
------------------------------
From: Andre Cavalcanti Rocha Martins {S <acrmarti@fma1.if.usp.br>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 06:51:58 -0200 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Alfheim War
On Fri, 11 Oct 1996, Herve MUSSEAU wrote:
> Well, there is another option. The Darokinians are not warlike, and they
> try hard to establish diplomatic relations with the SE. If they can
> figure out that the end of the magical rains means that their fertile
> land may become dry too, they'll try their best to help the SE in their
> efforts to make rain happen again in the forest (remember the stuff
> about the help from the Shyie-Lawr?). If they succeeed, at least
> partially, the SE should be grateful and maybe more open to strangers
> and become viable (ie, quite open-minded) neighbors.
> BTW, the mere fact that SE want the rain back might lead the
> nature-loving races and Immortals realize that they didn't really intend
> to do what they did... and that they're maybe not that evil after all.
Here we go again :) I agree the darokinianians will try the diplomatic
ways before anything more warlike. They might even succeed if the war
depended only on them. But it doesn't, not the way I am proposing it.
But I have to disagree about the nature-loving races and Immortals. From
what they know, the SE wanted Alfheim so much, they didn't care about
destroying the forest in order to conquest it. Now it is theirs and they
are looking for help to rebuild the forest. Just imagine the same
situation in our own world, about one decade ago. Suppose you are a
north-american (some of you won't have to supose) ten years ago, when
Russia was still a comunist country. You grew up hearing tales of how the
russians are bad, they eat little children in their breakfast and the
like. Then USA starts going radioactive and all americans are forced to
leave. Soviet troops move in immediatelly after the americans departure
and ask for help to clean the country, claiming they are not responsible
for the mess, they were only trying to neutralize american nuclear
arsenal, but something went wrong unexpectedly. Would you believe in them
or would you think they are more twisted than you thought before?
Of course, Mexico and Canada (Darokin) would be willing to help, since
they have no option. But that's all.
Andre Martins
------------------------------
From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 13:11:29 +0200
Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Alfheim War
>So I am asking you all to give your opinions about the
>date, so we can work an "official" option.
I think that an war for Alfheim (or better the Canolbarth-forest) will
happen AFTER 1020, if it will happen at all! Now I think all nations, which
are interested in the forest, are not very interested in another war, and
need time to orientate in the new political situation. Many nations have
other problems!
***************************************************************************
Peter Balazs
(a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at)
http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
***************************************************************************
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V1 #262
*****************************
mystara-digest Saturday, 12 October 1996 Volume 01 : Number 263
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 08:15:05 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Barimoor
In a message dated 96-10-10 18:45:36 EDT, you write:
<< Ah yes, Barimoor.. Do you think he might already be Immortal, having
ascended during the WotI? Or would adventurers have set him back a few
decades? >>
in the Ylaraum Gaz it says he needs a couple more centuries to complete his
quest
but i havent seen any info on Barimoor since then
i have PWAIII and JA and i saw nothing about him
he would have died during the week without magic
but was he not ressurected or wished back when the week was over?
------------------------------
From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 08:20:34 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] World Games
In a message dated 96-10-10 20:00:11 EDT, you write:
<< Probably you're right, but think in game terms: for DMs that play their
campaigns day by day (like me) it's nicer to ahve the World Games take place
each year and for PCs too, IMO. >>
i agree with this
IMC a D&D year takes a long time to roleplay
i dont think a year is too often for the countries either
has anyone done much work on creating their own world games?
id love to see it
------------------------------
From: Alad3@aol.com
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 08:33:00 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2
In einer eMail vom 10.10.1996 22:05:08, schreiben Sie:
>video
>games
Were there any historical dates in the VGs?
Alad3
------------------------------
From: Alad3@aol.com
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 08:35:16 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Alfheim War
In einer eMail vom 10.10.1996 22:20:25, schreiben Sie:
>You're right, the destruction of the Canolbarth forest should bring
>> > climatic changes in the KW. And not only in Ylaruam, I guess. Any ideas?
You know what, if the destruction of the Alfheim forest really changes the
Ylari climate, then it's only a matter of time, until Al-Kalim's vision of
the desert garden is fulfilled (Who knows perhaps he was helping Rafiel too?)
Alad3
------------------------------
From: Alad3@aol.com
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 08:37:40 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 6
In einer eMail vom 10.10.1996 22:32:51, schreiben Sie:
>given the culture, dress, and attitudes of the Krugel orcs in the hollow
>world, wouldn't it make more sense if they were transplanted from the
>Savage Baronies (RS) area and not from part of the Great Horde in the KW?
Well, perhaps you have a point, but what daniel is writing here, is a summary
of 'canon' history, and there it says that the Krugel orcs were a part of
Queen Udbala's horde, which attacked Rockhome.
Alad3
------------------------------
From: Roundhouse <Roundhouse@mms.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:03:14 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Alfheim War
Matthew Levy wrote:
>
> On Wed, 9 Oct 1996, Roundhouse wrote:
> >
> > There should not be too much of an increase in the rain. The Altan Tepes
> > mountains will still prevent much of the rain from crossing into Ylaruam.
>
> You're missing the whole point. The original Elven spell REVERSED the
> flow of weather in the entire KW. If the spell is destroyed, rain will
> begin moving in from the EAST over the sea and into the Alasiyan desert,
> which will become lush and fertile again. The rains which move through
> Darokin and into the Canolbarth will dwindle and die, leaving the whole of
> Darokin a dry wasteland. These are the stakes of such a war.
I had pegged the original spells as being permanent. The weather patterns
had settled into the new patterns, and being a global change, they would not
reverse unless there was something to change it.
Unless they changed the weather patterns in only that small part of the world
there is no reason for it to reverse. If the spell just affected Canolbarth
and the rest of the region described in the Gazetteers then the old weather
pattern would reassert itself in an extremely violent display of natures
fury.
Sounds like it could be an adventure. The spell is about to end and the PC's
have to reactivate it while the entropic immortals want the massive
destruction it would wreak.
- --
I've done the math and Galileo was wrong. The world doesn't revolve around
the sun, it revolves around me.
Daniel J. Macchia
Roundhouse@mms.net
------------------------------
From: StarHawk <starhawk@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 11:39:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 8
On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Matthew Levy wrote:
> Second problem: I know the Red Steel set says Lupins have been in Renardy
> for centuries, but it seemed like the general consensus on the list was
> that the Renardois are emigrants from Nouvelle Averoigne, which means they
> can't have gotten to the SC until after the arrival of the d'Ambrevilles,
> which (IIRC) is in the 7th or 8th century, not the 6th ...
> anybody know the solution to this one?
> m@2
>
>
Simple, just because they came from Nouvelle Averoigne doesn't mean it was
called that at the time. Kind of like saying your ancestors (not you
specifically) came from France when France was still Brittany. If I was
better at history I'd give years, but I'm not.
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 12:32:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 8
> > first of all, you have Minroth traders
> > spreading lycanthropy around the KW in the early 4th century, but
> > Minrothad is politically disunified still at this time
> I love PC4 by Ann Dupuis, but it seems to imply (or maybe it says
> straight out, I don't recall) that Lycanthropy didn't exist on Mystara
> until the Alphatians' Planetfall.
True - when the Alphatians landed, they brought along "natural" (ie, not
affected by the moon or silver) wolf and tiger shapeshifters, and the
Flaems later brought in "natural" bear and boar shifters. It was in 400 AC
that the "modern" lycanthropy was developed.
> Information in the DA series contradicts this, however, as one of the
> characters of Blackmoor, the northern baron (can't think of his name
> offhand), was infected with Lycanthropy by the minions of the Egg of Coot.
> I suppose it is possible that this was an isolated incident, as it was
> _magically_ inflicted, and the Egg of Coot is from another world (perhaps
> Alphatian? Though I doubt it...). Perhaps this case was the very first
> recorded incident of Lycanthropy ever on Mystara?
Perhaps... I doubt that too many lycanthropes survive Planetshift. :)
PS: see my next post for info on the Egg of Coot. :)
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 12:41:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 6
> >given the culture, dress, and attitudes of the Krugel orcs in the hollow
> >world, wouldn't it make more sense if they were transplanted from the
> >Savage Baronies (RS) area and not from part of the Great Horde in the KW?
> Well, perhaps you have a point, but what Daniel is writing here, is a summary
> of 'canon' history, and there it says that the Krugel orcs were a part of
> Queen Udbala's horde, which attacked Rockhome.
<nods and smiles> I couldn't have phrased it better myself.
Mind you, I'm curious about the seeming lack of Savage Coast transportees
to the Hollow World.. perhaps some of the 'pre-civilized' rakasta and
lupins are running around there?
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 00:50:52 +0200
Subject: [Mystara] The =?iso-8859-1?Q?=B4Noids?= War!
>I'm not sure when the Alfheim War should take place, but I have been=20
>discussing with Michael Roy the possibility of the 'noids coming under=20
>fire in 1020 (as per GAZ10). From my suggestions of placing the orcs in=20
>the Orclands of Darokin, and his placement of Thar/Psa'gh in Eastern=20
>Rockhome, it seems that a joint operation by them in the future against=20
>Rockhome may not be at all unlikely. If Rockhome (weakened after civil=20
>war, war with 'noids, civil war again, and war in Oenkmar) were to fall,=20
>or at least seem in danger of falling, surely that would give both=20
>Darokin and Thyatis cause to prevent it- leading to their joint=20
>operations against the 'noids in those areas.=20
A little story from my campaign:
(We play in AC1011, but WotI didn=B4t happen, it started in 1010! (That=B4s
because, when I=B4ve bought the box, my campaign already was in 1008!
>IMC a D&D year takes a long time to roleplay
>i dont think a year is too often for the countries either
IMC the passing of time depends on how much the PCs travel, pause, research
spells, be imprisoned, etc..=20
So for example in three and a half years of irregular gaming (about once per
month), we=B4ve played from 1007 to 1011!)
But that=B4s not the story, I=B4ve wanted to tell, this is:
In 1009, Orcs and other humanoids from the Broken Lands started an attack on
Darokin. Goblins from Eastern Darokin also did that. The attacks were
coordinated by Thar and took Darokin per surprise. Untill other nations came
to help, the =B4Noids conquered quite a big part of Darokin, and laid waste=
to
it! But the people were treated "quite fair" at least by troops of Thar. Of
course many were killed, some raped or tortured. But quite a few humans were
allowed to flee, to emigrate. Cornuglain, Selenica and Akesoli are only
some of the cities, that fell. But only Selenica was nearly destroyed, the
other cities were damaged more than necessary. Military forces of Darokin
were pushed back and separated. The two regions, still under Darokin
command, was Darokin city and the region south of it and the region in the
south of Lake Amsorak with Fort Anselbury and Akorros. =20
Then Thyatis, Karameikos and the Shires sent some forces. The Athruagins
also came to some fighting, but only with some lizardmen, who tried to use
the confusion to conquer and pillage some land for themselves. Rockhome also
get some fighting, as goblins attack parts of Rockhome. And Ylarum was
getting nervous as the Thyatian made some maneuvers near the border, so it
came to some local battles between Ylarum and Thyatis. Alfheim didn=B4t have
any problems as only a few =B4noids came into their territories.
Thar soon recognized that the sucessfull part of the attack was over. First
four nations (if you count Karameikos as an independent nation) were now
fighting the noids. Second some trolls in the Broken Lands were getting
restless, and marched into Glantri, so the next nation was probably drawn
into the fight. Then many =B4noids died, got lost or lost interest, so one=
of
the reason of the attack the problem of over-population was solved. So he
stopped the fighting, withdrew the troops a little bit, and sent intelligent
=B4noids as diplomats to the Darokans. The goblin forces in the east didn=B4=
t
withdraw or stop the fighting, so they were eredicated with time.
After some =B4noid diplomats were killed, some were talked to, and so a real
conversation started with the following conclusion:=20
1.) The =B4noid withdraw from central Darokin, and will never launch a=
attack
again.
2.) A part of Cornuglain was now "given" to the =B4noids, so they could live
there, conduct trade aso.
3.) The Northern part of Darokin, north of Alfheim, which never quite had
been under Darokin control, was officially ammende to the Broken Lands. The
Broken Lands were accepted officially as nation, at least by darokin and the
Shires. The ruler of this nation should be a king, King Thar at this time.
But nobody in darokin ever saw this king, or even knew what race he was.=20
Interesting? Senseless? Comments?=20
***************************************************************************
Peter Balazs
(a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at)
http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
***************************************************************************
------------------------------
From: DonnLaP@aol.com
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 19:01:06 -0400
Subject: [Mystara] Remove
Remove DonnLaP@aol.com mystara-l
------------------------------
From: Andre Cavalcanti Rocha Martins {S <acrmarti@fma1.if.usp.br>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 02:48:01 -0200 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alfheim Invasion Complete Timeline (long)
On Wed, 9 Oct 1996, Herve MUSSEAU wrote:
> > So what do you think? Have everyone hated my previous ideas about the war
> > so much that I got no answers?
>
> Hey Andre, we really like you because you're so creative and want so
> much a war :)
Well, I know, I have exagerated complaining so soon about the lack of
responses. But it is funny when people like you for wanting a war :)
> Well, if that works for your campaign, just do it--the ideas seem fine
> (along with your other posts).
> However, this is not the way events will turn out in Michael's timeline
> (in fact, Aengmor will not become his). But your idea of the forest
> coming back to life (or unlife:) to help Atzanteotl's minions is really
> good in the case of a war such as the one you promote...
It could happen even if the war never breaks. I always felt that twisting
trees deserved something special. What about undead treants, oaks that
still absorb solar light, but almost all of it, leaving the forest dark at
the brightest noon, maybe a whole new undead version of the fairy kingdom?
Is someone interested (help wanted)?
Andre Martins
the warmaker
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 00:47:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Time Immortals
> << The question is, When did/do/will these pre-Immortals show up?>>
> I certainly see possibilities here. Yav is another Immortal whose time
> travels are well documented. However, candidates for Immortality in
> the Sphere of Time do not necessarily travel into the future -- they
> travel into a possible future that may or may not actually occur. So,
> while it is certainly possible for these Immortal candidates to show up
> at various times, it is not necessary that they do so.
True.. although I was under the impression that the "possible" future
didn't become the "real" future only if the Immortal candidate never
reached Immortality - meaning that all Immortals of Time do show up in the
"real" history. YMMV, of course.
> An even nastier possibility would be for Immortals to take actions that would
> prevent the ascensions of their rivals. But I suspect that one of the
> benefits
> of achieving Immortality is that no Immortal can be "paradoxed" out of
> existence -- if somebody alters the past so that an Immortal candidate
> fails to achieve Immortality, the new Immortal still appears at the proper
> time, albeit without a past that any mortal remembers.
Actually, in the "Chronomancy" file, there's an Immortal spell called
"Preserve Lifeline", which basically prevents any temporal tampering with
the Immortal's mortal life after it's cast. All Immortals who know of it
have cast it, of course..
> I once suggested this possibility to explain all those Immortals who
> have no memories of their mortal lives.
Interesting.. my own theory about the 'ancient' Immortals involves the
Old Ones, and an Immortal project that came so close to "blowing up" the
Multiverse that the Old Ones had to "pull a Nithia" on the surviving
Immortals.
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 23:24:22 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Gombar and Suma'a
On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Shawn wrote:
> >How about the Sylvan Realm? Have you decided whether the ogre-kin have
> >any contact with them, or is that area a bit too far north of
> >Gombar/Suma'a for the ogre-kin to have explored yet?
>
> Hating to sound too anti-elven (even though I am) where is the Sylvan Realm?
Right up the side of the Immortals' Arm (same side as Gombar and Suma'a
are on), towards the North Pole. See CM7 and/or GAZ5 for more
information. It's the home of the elves who migrated following the
destruction of Evergrun. It should be shown on the Hollow World map, as
well, though I don't think it's identified.
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 23:21:54 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] WotI--Ideas wanted
On Wed, 9 Oct 1996 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote:
> Well, in a war of this nature the smartest thing for Serraine to do would be
> to stay well away from the fighting. But if you really want to get Serraine
> involved, all you have to do is have the Alphatians or the Heldanners attack
> the city with the intent of using it as a base in the war. If the attackers
> win, then Serraine is occupied -- and your Pegataur may want to help the
> resistance and/or seek help from the other side. If the attackers lose,
> then Serraine is committed to the war against whoever attacked.
Of course, if you really want to get Serraine involved- there are always
those nasty little Nagpa of the Grey Front who wouldn't be above taking
advantage of the Wrath confusion to put their scheme into motion- likely
bringing the Firehand Gnomes to their cause, as well as perhaps one or
two other clans...
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 23:42:53 -0400 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alfheim Invasion
> maybe a whole new undead version of the fairy kingdom?
> Is someone interested (help wanted)?
"Ah.. so ye be interested in the Unseelie Court, eh? I reckon I could
tell ye a bit of the Dark Elves... but talking's thirsty work, if ye get
me meaning..."
:) Give me a day or two, and I'll try and hammer out a quick something.
I do seem to recall /somewhere/ it being mentioned that the Good Magic
Point in western Alfheim, that leads to Fairyland, being "closed" during
the twisting of the forest..
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: s9406058@student.anu.edu.au (Shawn)
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 13:23:52 +1000
Subject: [Mystara] Savage Coast Monstorous Compendium
Since nobody else has apparently mentioned this yet I thought I would. The new
Monstrous Compendium is at mpgn. There are two files J and R. R is the RTF
format and J is all the JPEG's.
Shawn Stanley
I am a QHQGMEEEBBGAU Mystaran
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/index.html
------------------------------
From: Herve MUSSEAU <musseauh@esiee.fr>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:41:35 +0200
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Time Immortals
Most of the paradoxes are prevented if you read the supplement I wrote
labelled 'Mystara and chronomancy'. Therein is explained the
relationship between Immortals and chronomancy, as well as their former
mortal self.
Note that it is true that with those rules Immortals can still help
their former mortal selves in their quest for Immortality. However, as
can be seen in the part about the immortal laws about time travel, such
things are generally restricted (and immortals from the speher of time
watch the temporal prime). Immortals from the Sphere of Time could do it
relatively unhindered (and that's kinda what Khoronus did), but they
know the laws of Temporal Prime (especially the momentum of time) and
know better than interfere with their mortal self.
As for interfence by other Immortals, it is prevented by the casting of
a spell at the time of reaching Immortality.
Note that the stuff about chronomancy in Mystara is availaible on my
homepage, and was released to the list a few weeks ago.
- --
Herve Musseau
Primary Email: musseauh@esiee.fr
Secondary Email: herve@hotmail.com
Homepage: http://www.esiee.fr/~musseauh
I'm a QSQWBEEEGGNFR Mystaran
------------------------------
From: "Oystein H. Lund" <kj160@hp825.lhg.hib.no>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 12:07:19 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Gombar and Suma'a
On Wed, 9 Oct 1996 TSRBruce@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 96-10-09 09:46:33 EDT, you write:
> >Not so sily, really, but what you're looking for is the addition of an
> >angled plane to the ship's keel - angled about 30-45 degrees from the
> >plane of the hull, (...)
>
> Well, I didn't expect that! Of course, in the case of the Gombarian/Suma'an
> navies (or the Miroth navy as you would prefer), it's not exactly *fuel*
> that's saved but more simply *energy* (muscle- or wind-based). Thanks for the
> technological insight! :)
You're welcome ;) I think that there's going to be two different
effects of this innovation, depending on what sort of ship you add it to,
by the way. A galley-type ship will save on "manpower", needing fewer
rowers, and consequently they'll need to feed less people, and/or be able
to keep to attack speeds for longer periods of time.
But for any sailing ship where the propulsion is based on a fixed
energy input, what you'll observe is a marked increase in speed. I took
the time to check with the Marine department, and it seems they've
mounted this on an actual sailboat as well. They observed a consistent
40% increase in speed...
Rather interesting, neh ?
Oh, one detail- the vanes need to be retrcatable or foldable - wouldn't
want that extra propulsion while you're at anchor. That's part of why
this has been a rather difficult engineering problem - how do you create
hinges strong enough to take that kind of strain ? That's what the
patents involved in this system takes care of.
>
> Bruce Heard
> who *thought* he lived in a world of fantasy
>
Never spent much time around engineers, did you ? There's a lot of
funky engineering problems that can only have a real-world solution if
someone comes up with materials with infinite tensile strength, infinite
conductance, or similar impossibilities ;)
But hey, a Force Field spell is as close to infinite tensile strength
and inflexibility as you can get, I bet ;)
_______________________________________________________________________
| Oeystein H. Lund ,kj160@hp825.lhg.hib.no |
| "Who are we, why are we here ?" |
| - Forget the questions, someone gimme another beer. |
| "What's the meaning of life, what's the meaning of it all ?" |
| -You gotta learn to dance, before they make you crawl. |
|_____________________________________________________________________|
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V1 #263
*****************************
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Jorge Villalobos" <factol@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 05:42:27 -0700
Subject: Re: [Mystara] is really Kol a Shadow Elf?
>From lists.io.com!owner-mystara-l Sun Oct 6 03:50:16 1996
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>From:Gabriele Ferri <fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it>
>To:"'Mystara discussion list'" <mystara-l@io.com>
>Subject: [Mystara] is really Kol a Shadow Elf?
>Date:Sun, 6 Oct 1996 05:15:05 -0700
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>OK, somewhere is written that Kol is a mutated Shadow Elf, but there is =
>a lot of difference between a SE and a kobold... It should have mutated =
>_a lot_!!
>I feel that he should just be half-blood...
>
>Gabriele Ferri - fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it
>
Read the description of kol in the Glantri boxed set. It says that the
deformed little SE are given to kobolds, and that kol is one of these deformed
SE but he doesn't know it.
- ---------------------------------------------------------
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Herve MUSSEAU <musseauh@esiee.fr>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 13:25:53 +0200
Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Alfheim War
Andre Cavalcanti Rocha Martins {S wrote:
> I think we should not go too far on this or we will end up destroying many
> cultures. Imagine the ethengarians if there is no longer the steppes. But
> some changes would happen.
>
> The most obvious is that it starts raining in Ylaruam. In the first years,
> it will be just a small increase in the rain, as could happen in good
> years. Then, in 1015, or 1016, a big rain happens in the desert for
> the first time. It is not a tropical storm, but the water they would
> expect in six months come down in about one hour. And one month later it
> happens again.
I may be wrong but I think Ylaruam has a microclimate maintained by
immortal spells, and is not in fact due to the effects of the AE's
magical rain (or not only), although they blame the elves. I think this
curse has been placed on the land at the time of the destruction of
Nithia by the Immortals.
> Darokin should become drier. Part of its rains happened due to the forest
> humidity. Severe droughts could happen there. Do we have an expert on
> mystaran weather around? I have no idea why the northern reaches are so
> cold, if there is any magical reason as there was for the ylari desert, so
> I can make no other guesses.
>
> > This is always possible. But as elves, the AE (and Ilsundal) tend to
> > have long-term plans, not a short-term plan of war (IMO).
> > Whatever his plans, Ilsundal definetly has plans. I just don't agree
> > that they include war at this point.
>
> I know. That's basically why we diverge about this war. But Maeliden would
> be working hard to convince Ilsundal to retake Alfheim. He might be the
> one plotting behind the Alfheim Avengers while he convinces Ilsundal.
You may be right. But Mealiden's primary goal is to protect Ilsundal and
the elves, not to wage war on others. I bet that IYC he *will* be behind
the AA.
> > To protect his people. And he created the ToL, who are his avatars, to
> > help them (according to Gaz5, or to what I remember from it).
>
> Avatars (evil grin)? So the magic is corrupting Ilsundal's avatars. Since
> avatars and the Immortal share the same mind, what would happen if you
> corrupt an avatar? Probably nothing dramatic, but it wouldn't be strange
> if Ilsundal would feel more compelled to go to war.
I believe nothing happens when an avatar dies (but I don't have the
immortal rules), except that the mental link is cut and the immortal has
lost the power he had put in the avatar.
> > Sure, especially if they're avatars. But as I said, there may be other
> > ways than war (according to Brizio's timeline, there are only 2 ToL
> > remaining in Alfheim, and they are hidden and disguised as dead trees).
>
> Oh, I agree Ilsundal would try the other ways. But they are almost
> certainly doomed to failure, IMO. "Please, would you shadow elves be so
> nice and undo this enchantment and let us get back to our forest?" No way,
> right. And think like an elf, or any other forest creature. Ilsundal send
> you to Rafieltown to negotiate a peace treaty. You enter the once green
> and beautiful Canolbarth forest and see it is more corrupt than the last
> time you left it. You have heard foul monster are running wild on your
> homeland. The SE, the trolls of your childish tales, are in charge and are
> the ones who have destroyed the most beautiful place in earth. Any AE
> would have to control himself to not start crying immediately and start
> attacking on a berserk rampage. Of course, those who go there are
> experient diplomats and they are able to conduct their mission. They try
> hard to make a treaty and they try to believe the SE are saying the truth
> when they tell that they didn't meant to destroy the forest. Your heart
> doesn't believe them, but you know you must do anything to save it, even
> trust the SE. But then the Treekeeper is aimed by a SE criminal arrow. The
> ambassadors will go back to the exile and tell their tales. Soon, every
> elf will be outraged and with a bloodthirsty look in their eyes. The tale
> of how corrupt the forest became will generate many songs, some of the
> saddest songs the elves have ever sung. The foul orcs will be seen as
> harmless creatures when compared to the evil of the SE. And they will
> start preparing their swords. How could it be different?
But as you stated yourself, they'll try other ways (beginning with
diplomacy, but also spying or any other twisted idea you can have)
before committing themselves to war. And even if everything fails, I'm
still not sure they would go to war. You see, elves have a different
outlook on time, and they can try long before concluding their efforts
cannot but fail.
> Of course they will try more subtle ways. Send some brave adventurers that
> can disguise as shadow elves and see what they can come with. But if they
> fail, war will be the only alternative. And if they come back with the
> real information, everyone will know many wizards were instrumental to
> Canolbarth's destruction. Any of them could know enough about the spell,
> so they must be all destroed, unless that danmed spell can be
> rediscovered. And the only way to kill the whole bunch would be to go to
> war against the shadow elves. Btw, Atzanteotl would instruct a small group
> of really evil SE about the spell. They would learn it and he would give
> them the bright idea of using this spell to make money. Just go to a small
> village and menaces them. If they won't pay, destroy their farms. It won't
> work on such a grand scale as Canolbarth, but a group of terrorists could
> use this in smaller scales.
The SE already tried it. They menaced Darokin of spoiling their crops if
they didn't agree to expand their territories (PWA). But thd DDC
discovered that their spell was ineffective against normal plants,
having been design to effect the magical forest of Canolbarth.
BTW, that also answers your worry about the SE being able to destroy all
forests in the world, thereby encouraging all nature loving Immortals to
go to war: the SE can't use the spell against non magical plants or
forests.
> It would just be a plot. They know the dwarves want to go to war, but are
> recovering for their internal problems. They would cretainly feel more
> confident with the might thyatian empire backing them. And, yes, they will
> use diplomacy/spying to help it (as well as the Master will do, another
> one who will only gain from such a war).
>
> > Your arguments are appealing. But I still think the dwarves are just
> > unlikely to go to war AGAIN, at least not now. But in a few years...
>
> I have tried hard to make them so. Glad you liked them.
I don't reject everything you say, I just disagree with the main point,
and thus with some plots you bring into motion to start a war. I like
some of your plots though :)
> Maybe that's because I feel a little diferent about this events, as I
> believe I have posted once sometime ago, when Fabrizio posted the first
> version for his timeline. Atzanteotl is a subtle ploter, so it just
> happened to me he could be doublecrossing Rafiel. He know him for what he
> is (Rafiel sided with Rad openly in the argument with Ixion before anybody
> else did it) and he was using him all the time to infiltrate his SE.
I don't think he discovered the truth about Rafiel. You say Rafiel
openly sided with Rad, that's true. But Rafiel could easily have
convinced Atzanteotl that he did this because he wanted to start a war
(ie to promote entropy) and because he found it fun to oppose the mighty
hierach and use Rad at that. He could easily have convinced Atz that he
is a double agent acting for the secret Brotherhood of the Shadow,
acting as an ally in Rad's clique (whereas he is in fact doing the
contrary). Atz has no reason to doubt it, since he believes Rafiel to be
entropic and since Rafiel seems to really actively participate in the
efforts of the Brotherhood (as shows the invasion of hated Alfheim).
Rafiel could have fed Atz with (probably false or incomplete or
unimportant) information about Rad's intents.
> Someone has posted a timeline with SE-Schatenallfen encounters (was it you
> Fabrizio?) and both civilization seemed to be aware they were diferent. So
In fact it was me :)
> I believe Atzanteotl is just preparing Aengmor fall. He will want to keep
> using Rafiel, so he won't try to take the City of Stars at this point, but
> no shaman would be willing to live on the surface where their cristals
> would be destroyed. So he would just be "helping" sending some of his
> clerics to take care of the SE's good health.
That's not exactly how it is presented in my work about SE/SA, but you
might easily interpret it this way if you wish (again, IYC). For my own
part, I think Atz has no real intent to convert the SE into worshipping
him because he doesn't like their slow growing rate. It just happens
that SE are in possession of a city sacred to his cult (Aengmor), so he
uses those SE that are stupid enough to fall to his sway. I don't think
he intends to betray his friend and ally (or se he thinks) Rafiel
(remember that Atz is LE in AD&D terms, not CE). He will start a war in
Aengmor (see Micheal's timeline) because he loves war, but when he
realizes the situation is not in his favor and that there are more
interesting enemies nearby, he'll arrange for a truce with his 'friend'
Rafiel.
> And if Stefan decides to go to war, the cult of Halav will grow up,
> claiming King Halav has returned as Stefan Karameikos to lead them back to
> their former glory. The king could even use them to help unite the
> country. Btw, if the elves will be leaving Karameikos to go to war, they
> will certainly try to hire karameikan mercenaries, so it might be a very
> difficult job to stay out of the war.
>
> Some new problems. Synn has helped to move Glantri in the direction Jaggar
> wanted (war against the ethengar). I am sure he will be deeply upset when
> he finds out that Dolores has been making a fool of him in the last years,
> but how much? I mean, if Dolores send him some emissaries proposing help
> in his war against the ethengarians, how would he react? She could want to
> create a new principality where Bramyra, almost destroyed by the invasion
> lies, one controlled by another pawn of her. She would promisse (and
> fulfill this particular promisse) to try her best to destroy the horsemen.
> How would our prince react with such conflict of interests (I just wished
> he were a PC in my campaign so I would give him this moral dilemma)?
More political intrigue and betrayals to come...
> Good idea. I will call a vote on this one on a separate email (I am not
> sure how many people are reading the whole discussion). So that we can
> have an "official" decision. That would make things easier to work with.
Well, I didn't really mean it seriously... Ok, if you want to do it,
just proceed. But you already know my opinion as that of Fabrizio (and
that of Micheal too, since he wrote the timeline for 1014).
BTW, speaking of the audience of this thread, don't you think we should
continue this discussion in private email? I mean, I often conduct
discussions with messages of that size (eg with Fabrizio), but I
generally don't do it on the list. Except for Fabrizio, I'm not sure
many people read those mails.
> > True. That's why the invasion by Moglai Khan in Micheal's timeline is
> > likely to help Glantri unite against a common foe. Although this will
> > only be an uneasy allaince between the princes, as usual.
>
> Yes. And Jaggar might then try to face Synn, if he accepted her offer
> before, but she would be even more powerful.
>
> > Why not? This is plausible. How many troops does the Master have
> > stationed in Sind exactly?
>
> I don't know. I believe there might be something in the PWAs, but I'll
> have to check it.
>
> Andre Martins
- --
Herve Musseau
Primary Email: musseauh@esiee.fr
Secondary Email: herve@hotmail.com
Homepage: http://www.esiee.fr/~musseauh
I'm a QSQWBEEEGGNFR Mystaran
------------------------------
From: "Jorge Villalobos" <factol@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 06:01:58 -0700
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bargle the Infamous
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>From:Matthew Levy <mlevy@orion.oac.uci.edu>
>To:mystara-l@io.com
>Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bargle the Infamous
>In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19961006134433.006d3e90@mail.lunet.it>
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>On Sun, 6 Oct 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote:
>
>> At 11.10 06/10/96 +-100, you wrote:
>> >Hello everybody,
>> >I was thinking about how Bargle can act after the fall of the Black Eagle
>> Barony. I know from PWA 2 that he is helping humanoids, but why? Is in PWAs
>> an JA written where he lives?
>> >According to his description in GAZ1, he isn't a charismatic leader. So, if
>> I were him, I'll find someone to work for (like what he did with the Black
>> Eagle), but who? Someone in Glantri?
>> >Since he helped humanoids, he could live with Prince Kol.
>>
>> IIRC he goes to Estherold to help some powerful leader there, then he flees
>> before Broderick arrives with the NACE armies.
>>
>> **************
>> Fabrizio Paolibrizio@lunet.it
>> DM in City Of The Stars
>> aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton
>> aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr
>> Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html
>>
>>
>>
>
>There appear to be two schools of thought on this ... the Glantri boxed
>set says he is with Prince Kol, I believe. Of course, Bargle could split
>his time in both places ... he's gotta be powerful enough for Teleport
>without Error and he could certainly work as a "consultant" for multiple
>supervillains around the world ... I wouldn't be surprised to see him
>showing up in Jaibul, Hule, or Minaea, either ...
>
>m@2
>
>
No the one with Kol is the Black Eagle Baron, not Bargle.
- ---------------------------------------------------------
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Robert Kaelin <kaelin@natural.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 09:49:52 -0400
Subject: [Mystara] Bargle (The Party's over!) :-)
>Howdy,
>
>I think the Mystara list has seen me harp on this point enough so I'm
>only
>sending it to you. If you want to post this, or any response you
>want to
>make to the list then go ahead. I'm still open to debate. :-)
(For the record, I tried to end this in a civilized way off the list. Now
it'll have to get messy. It's wasting too many people's bandwidth.)
Tim,
Well let's see. I try to support an adventure idea and I've been responded
to with "slack off", "hollow", "2-dimensional", "foolish", had my skills as
a DM belittled in general by someone who doesn't even know me and I just
loved this comment:
>>Because the Master is overused and boring and I've never heard of this
>>Barimoor character. :-)
>
>hmmmm...... never heard of Barimoor? You realize you're in Mystara
>don't you??? Or does one of the most powerful charecters in the world
>just not interest you?
Why don't you explain who he is instead of wasting space with this wity
little tidbit? Maybe other people have never heard of him either and
could benefit from it. (Or do you only berate and not try to do anything
to actually HELP anyone else? What we like to call "those people who just
take up space".)
Obviously you felt the need to beat your chest in public. Sad really. I
don't have the necesary words to express my pity for you. Think what you
like. I said what I wanted to and anyone who HAS to play the "My way is
the only way" game can go debate other neanderthals. I was open to
discussion, not to listen to juveniles whine about the same topics time and
again without budging and then attack and insult me with absolutely no
provocation. This is my last word on this, any other comments will be
treated as they deserve to be, ignored. I do appreciate the time and
effort you put into this discussion, but it's time to just nuke the whole
thread from orbit. (It's the only way to be sure.) I will try to salvage
something positive from this and make my campaign better. I won't spend
any neurons thinking you'll do likewise.
One parting shot first. (I just can't resist.)
If you need your little charts, books and explanations to detail out every
possible facet of your campaign world, then that's fine. Don't be so
close-minded as to assume we all need your crutches or we all have to do
things the same way you do. My campaign world is just fine, thank you.
:-)
I wish both of us good luck, your luck to be happy and my luck never to run
into you again. :-)
- -Bob
------------------------------
From: Andrew_McKinstry@westtown.edu (Andrew McKinstry)
Date: 11 Oct 1996 16:40:33 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: [Mystara] The Alfheim War
You wrote:
You're missing the whole point. The original Elven spell REVERSED the
flow of weather in the entire KW. If the spell is destroyed, rain will
begin moving in from the EAST over the sea and into the Alasiyan desert,
which will become lush and fertile again. The rains which move through
Darokin and into the Canolbarth will dwindle and die, leaving the whole of
Darokin a dry wasteland. These are the stakes of such a war.
m@2
In Gaz 5 It says that the Canolbarth was not a barren desert wasteland but a
shrub oak brushland. Darokin is still relatively close to the sea, so it
should still get its standard amount of rain.
Andrew McKinstry
------------------------------
From: Guido Castelletti <gcastel@insinet.it>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 07:28:07 +0200
Subject: [Mystara] immortals
Hi,
has anyone converted the remaining immortals and their priests to
AD&D? If anyone have done this conversion or knows a site in which there
are these informations, please mail me.
Thank you very much.
Claudio
------------------------------
From: Geoff Gander <ggander@chat.carleton.ca>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 96 12:46:07 EDT
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Your Last
> Well, before I can answer that you have to answer a question for
> me ... as a native born Canadian I am ashamed to admit this, but I'm not
> sure what the exchange rates are like these days .... Yes I am interested
> in the documentation too. I understand the kind of effort that goes into
> something like this and would never want to stiff a fellow artist ...
> why don't you tell me what you think is a fair price for your time (in
> US$, if you could be so kind) and I can get back to you ... at any rate I
> won't be able to send any money until I get my financial aid check next
> thursday. I look forward to seeing your work.
Alright, then, how about $7.00 US? (this would include expenses for
shipping it to your place). BTW - Where in Canada are you from? What is
your program?
> > Geoff
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Geoff Gander
> > Political Science IV
> > Carleton University
> > General wanderer by principle, adventurer by profession
> > Email address: ggander@chat.carleton.ca
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Geoff Gander
Political Science IV
Carleton University
General wanderer by principle, adventurer by profession
Email address: ggander@chat.carleton.ca
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 12:27:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Time Immortals
> > My own preference is that the timeline does not get altered by those who go
> > back into the past. In play, mortals and Immortals can go back in time, and
> > perform actions that will affect the timeline, but coming back, find out that
> > those actions were consistent with and/or necessary for the timeline they
> > started with. This would require that all Time Immortals have performed their
> > actions in the actual future(or past) of the one(and only one) timeline.
> I call this the "Bill and Ted Theory of Time Travel" myself; time is like
> a Mobius loop, wherein everything that has happened has already happened
> and everything that will happen has/will already have happened...
I tend to follow the "Chronomancer Theory of Time Travel".. you can go
back and /try/ to change anything, but the timestream does its utmost to
keep history as close to the original as it can - if you kill the general
of a major battle, the major takes over, and so on.. An intelligent
time-traveller can change things deliberately, but it takes a good deal of
effort.
> I also think it would be interesting for Al-Kalim to show up again (maybe
> not as himself; perhaps in disguise) but I don't think he would likely
> show up during the Kin/Preceptor war of 1014- don't candidates for Time
> have to go further into their future than this would be? (If not, I don't
> see any reason for him not to show up, then.)
Candidates for Time have to go forwards in time to 3 spots in the future
of their dynasty.. They must help 3 descendants, who should be further
ahead in time than the grandchild heir. Now, since Al-Kalim's heir ruled
~860 AC.. he could pop up at any time, now. :)
> In one of my projects, a cartoon set in Mystara, one of the antagonists
> is a time traveller with some very interesting secrets...
Will this ever be available to the list members? :)
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 12:35:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mystara] Egg of Coot
Here's a little something I found on the net...
In article <C0KrFz.FDr@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> jacobus@symphony.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney) writes:
>In article <C0J06z.5s8@ns1.nodak.edu> dhenry@plains.NoDak.edu (David R. Henry) writes:
>>Will someone please tell me what the Egg of Coot is, already?
>
>The Egg of Coot?
>Why, it's E. Gary Gygax, oldest Coot of rpgs!!
>I don't remember where I heard this, but I think it's true, actually.
For all the readers of rec.games.frp.misc that weren't around in the
early 80's (or at least, weren't interested in RPGs then), and to allow all
concerned to make up their minds from the only data we have available, I
present to the net an unauthorised reproduction of Dave Arneson's original
description of the Egg of Coot, straight from the "First Fantasy Campaign"
supplement from Judges Guild (alas, sadly out of business and gone).
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
[note: the following is quite long. Also, the poster's comments within are
enclosed in these nifty square brackets. What will they think of next?]
Egg of Coot
This all consuming personality lives off the egos of others to support his
own ego. At one time (millennea ago) of humanoid characteristics, today,
his exact physical description is unknown. In fact it is not even known for
sure if he (it) has a physical appearance. Theories say that he is now a
huge mass of jointly operating cells, a huge mass of Jelly, a giant thickly
hided egg, pure energy, a man, a mass of living rock, etc. It is generally
acknowledged that the physique of this creature is too horrible for any
mortal to behold and that it carries out its activities through the use of
surrogates which it controls or has programmed. All communications with this
beast are through direct mental contact or via his throne-room which is
dominated by a huge old world artifact said to be an ancient war machine,
through which it communicates directly via voice transmission from some
other area of its City-Palace.
1) Enjoys little jokes like scrawling obscene words and phrases on the walls
of latrines and garbage cans (to show it's "power"), sky writing, pulling
the wings off of flies, etc. General level of jokes indicates a Level II
Intelligence with a mature age of 3 or 6, never having been denied
anything!)
[no, the text never said what a Level II intelligence was]
2) Has a huge Laboratory that turns out spells, for selling, which are
(of course) perfection itself (30% chance of failure per level of spell,
i.e. III = 50%, II = 40%, etc.). Of historical interest is when the Ran of
Ah Foo served in the factory as a Spell Maker but was kicked out when he
"surpassed" the Egg's standard of excellence, which, since the perfect
standard is impossible to surpass, meant that he (the Ran) had committed
the ultimate wrong and was forced to flee rather than become the newest
human victim to be experimented on.
3) All close servants of the Egg, undergo mental conditioning that is aimed
at crushing all their mental initiative. This is then replaced by the over-
whelming desire to serve the Egg and do _exactly_ as it wished. Part of the
standard conditioning has them believing that all the Egg does and
communicates is good and right with all unbelievers being those jealous of
the Egg's perfection and should be treated accordingly.
4) The Egg is known to hold an unshakable grudge against anything that has
ever in any way caused it difficulty that was not immediately overcome. It
will direct it's efforts exclusively towards the demise of this force even
to the extent of ignoring past offenders in order to go after the newest
threat. This is the result of the Egg's tremendous self-esteem which admits
_no_ failings.
5) The best insight into the Egg's ambitions are in it's creed which is
daily intoned by hundreds of conditioned followers, around his capital
city:
Might is Right. Might is Right. Don't Give a Sucker an even break.
Winning _is_ everything. Get what you want by Hook or by Crook, but
get it. The Ends always justify the means used to achieve it. The
meek may inherit the Earth but that means the strongest will rule
everything.
I fear the rest of the Creed is a bit too strong for our gentile readers
and deal with certain "Breeding priviledges and customs". Let it suffice
that when an area is captured by the Egg, it shortly undergoes a dramatic
population decline and acquires a new and very unhuman population
composition.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
[yes, the original text had unmatched brackets, spelling and grammar errors.
That was one of its charms, like everything from JG. Not polished and error-
free like all the life had been beaten out of it by marketroids. But I
digress...]
Hmm. Forgot the bit at the end about "gentile readers". It does look more
and more like a poke at Gygax (who always talks about his "gentle readers").
I was going to comment on the points, but they pretty much speak for
themselves.
Dave Arneson had an interesting sense of humour and it is all through the
First Fantasy Campaign. This was, of course, back when we knew we were playing
a game and not delving into epic fantasy. Hmph. If there is any demand I'll
type in the truly classic "Marfeldt the Barbarian". That one still makes me
laugh.
- --
* mmcalees@csr.uvic.ca (Michael McAleese) : I speak only for me... *
"Man can believe the impossible, but never the improbable." - Oscar Wilde
(For snooping governments: heroin, cocaine, FBI, CSIS, CIA, albatross...)
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V1 #264
*****************************
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From: Alad3@aol.com
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 05:04:30 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 6
In einer eMail vom 11.10.1996 20:09:17, schreiben Sie:
>Mind you, I'm curious about the seeming lack of Savage Coast transportees
>to the Hollow World.. perhaps some of the 'pre-civilized' rakasta and
>lupins are running around there?
>
>
What about:
1.The Wallara, before they were hit by the spell of forgetting
2.Tortles, before their civilization was destroyed by the goblioid hordes
3.The original inhabitants of Bellayne, before they all died mysteriously
4.Aranea, while they still lived happily in their spider forms
Just a few ideas, tell me what you think
Alad3
------------------------------
From: Alad3@aol.com
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 05:01:49 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 8
In einer eMail vom 11.10.1996 18:22:51, schreiben Sie:
>Simple, just because they came from Nouvelle Averoigne doesn't mean it was
>called that at the time. Kind of like saying your ancestors (not you
>specifically) came from France when France was still Brittany. If I was
>better at history I'd give years, but I'm not.
Well, but before the the arrival of the d'Ambrevilles there NO french culture
whatsoever in that area (as far as i know on all of Mystara). Perhaps they
visited the d'Ambrevilles on Laterre, but that is highly unlikely, so i
believe, that the savage Lupins were civilized by a few Lupins, who had gone
to Nouvelle Averoigne to hunt werewolves ( i remember reading this somewhere,
but i'm not sure where).
------------------------------
From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 12:40:28 +0200
Subject: Re: [Mystara] immortals
> has anyone converted the remaining immortals and their priests to=20
>AD&D? If anyone have done this conversion or knows a site in which there=20
>are these informations, please mail me.
>Thank you very much.
I=B4ve done some work on immortals! I=B4ve been playing AD&D in "The Known
World" (now Mystara) for 7 years now! So I also was quite happy, when I =B4v=
e
seen that TSR converted Mystara to AD&D. Then of course I noticed that OD&D
was dead, and Mystara was for beginners only, so I regreted this step.
But again I was taken off the point, which is I=B4ve done some work on
immortals, converting their attributes to AD&D (which result in rather
impressing Thacos, AC or HP, with Hierarchs), and also converted the
discription for some priesthoods, and added some powers, restriction, aso
myself. I also fused some gods from the L&L and Mystaran Immortals (for
example Alphatia with Isis, Ka-gar with Hephaistos, aso). Give me some time
(I will need quite a lot of it) and I will post more about it! I also have a
special opinion on the matter on where the "old" Immortals came from, how
the Immortals and the gods of other realms relate to each other, aso.=20
I will have to look at the description of the already converted immortals!=
=20
***************************************************************************
Peter Balazs
(a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at)
http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
***************************************************************************
------------------------------
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 13:36:21 +0100
Subject: [Mystara] World Games
In the first World Games (AC 1012) in Selenica there are swimming contests,
but where do they take place ? In Selenica there're no rivers and no
swimming pools (IMO). Perhaps Glantrian (or Karameikan) wizards created a
magical pool of water ?
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it
DM in City Of The Stars
aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton
aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr
Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html
------------------------------
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 13:36:18 +0100
Subject: [Mystara] Oenkmar
AC 1000: Oenkmar lies in the middle of Lava Flow in Lower Broken Lands.
AC 1014: according to Micheal's timeline (and the prophecies in JA) Oenkmar
is raised again on the surface, where does it appear ?
My guess (after comparing the maps of Upper and Lower Broken Lands) would be
somewhere in South Gnollistan between the Sun's Anvil and the Streel River.
Your opinion ?
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it
DM in City Of The Stars
aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton
aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr
Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html
------------------------------
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 13:35:59 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Alfheim War
At 15.25 10/10/96 -0200, you wrote:
>
>We have been discussing this subject (as you all know) and it seems we
>should have a consensus on when this war is going to happen, if it will be
>happening at all. So I am asking you all to give your opinions about the
>date, so we can work an "official" option. I believe the war should be
>starting around 1015-1016, Herve feels (correct if I am wrong, please) it
>would be better after 1020, but he hasn't suggested a year yet. Just post
>when you believe thw war will be happening and I will count the votes.
1020
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it
DM in City Of The Stars
aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton
aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr
Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html
------------------------------
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 13:36:09 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 8
At 15.13 10/10/96 -0700, Cthulhudrew wrote:
>On lycanthropy-
>
>I love PC4 by Ann Dupuis, but it seems to imply (or maybe it says
>straight out, I don't recall) that Lycanthropy didn't exist on Mystara
>until the Alphatians' Planetfall.
>
>Information in the DA series contradicts this, however, as one of the
>characters of Blackmoor, the northern baron (can't think of his name
>offhand), was infected with Lycanthropy by the minions of the Egg of Coot.
>
>I suppose it is possible that this was an isolated incident, as it was
>_magically_ inflicted, and the Egg of Coot is from another world (perhaps
>Alphatian? Though I doubt it...). Perhaps this case was the very first
>recorded incident of Lycanthropy ever on Mystara?
>
>Any thoughts?
Perhaps someone infected by lychantropy time-traveled back to the Blackmoor era.
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it
DM in City Of The Stars
aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton
aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr
Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html
------------------------------
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 13:36:02 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Meteor (was: The Alfheim War)
At 19.43 10/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Fabrizio Paoli pontificated:
>>
>> Maybe the forested area around Aengmor may become drier, but I don't think
>> the Streel Plain would suffer any drought, though the combined effects of
>> the meteor in the Amsorak mountains and the corruption of the Canolbarth
>> forest would be felt for years in Darokin.
>>
>Humm, never thought about the meteor effect on climates. If meteor of
>that size struck Earth, it will probably kick up engough dust to
>cause a neuclear winter effect. But since there are no mention of
>that, should we just assume a magical meteor work differently from
>a real meteor?
>
Actually it's not true that there's no mention to the meteor: looking in the
PWA under Darokin/history I found that the ash and dust caused by the meteor
fell in Darokin ruining harvest and fouling drinking water. Moreover,
according to PWA II, the flood in Thaumont AC 1010 may have been caused by
the dust-clouds raised by meteor that increased rainfall and snowfall during
the winter.
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it
DM in City Of The Stars
aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton
aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr
Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html
------------------------------
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 13:36:05 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Alfheim War
At 14.57 10/10/96 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>On Wed, 9 Oct 1996, Roundhouse wrote:
>>
>> There should not be too much of an increase in the rain. The Altan Tepes
>> mountains will still prevent much of the rain from crossing into Ylaruam.
>
>You're missing the whole point. The original Elven spell REVERSED the
>flow of weather in the entire KW. If the spell is destroyed, rain will
>begin moving in from the EAST over the sea and into the Alasiyan desert,
>which will become lush and fertile again. The rains which move through
>Darokin and into the Canolbarth will dwindle and die, leaving the whole of
>Darokin a dry wasteland. These are the stakes of such a war.
>
Is that so ? Really ?
I'm not expert in metereology, can someone tell me what happens to a nation
(like Darokin) completely surrounded by mountains except from two small
areas in the west (border with Sind) and south (Malpheggi Swamp) ?
BTW: the magical rain in Alfheim drained through the Sump and Weir and ended
up in the Malpheggi Swamp (and in the underground SE caves, IMO). What
happens no without the magical rain ? Maybe the northern edge of the swamp
will go dry.
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it
DM in City Of The Stars
aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton
aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr
Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html
------------------------------
From: "David 'Azure' Leland" <dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 96 05:42:58 PDT
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bargle (The Party's over!) :-)
At 09:49 AM 10/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>Howdy,
>>
>>I think the Mystara list has seen me harp on this point enough so I'm
>>only
>>sending it to you. If you want to post this, or any response you
>>want to
>>make to the list then go ahead. I'm still open to debate. :-)
>
>(For the record, I tried to end this in a civilized way off the list. Now
>it'll have to get messy. It's wasting too many people's bandwidth.)
[snip]
I'm confused. I thought this was going off list and here it is
again. I don't imagine it will go away soon if there is going to be a game
of "*I* get the last public word in," which it looks like to me based on
this post. The non-flameware discussions of Bargle are still going on and
are of interest to me, and I'd like to continue reading them without having
to wade through the flame version. Please consider forgetting about getting
parting shots in and just take it to private. I don't appreciate getting
caught in the crossfire.
Thanks for your consideration.
/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\
~| David "Azure" Leland ~|~ Email: dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu |~
~| UCSD Cognitive Science ~|~ Phone/Fax: (619) 642-6709 |~
~| Oberlin class of 1996 ~|~ Web: http://cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland |~
~| Amateur conguero; Q(O+H)Q(G+W)AEEEBGKUS Mystaran; P75 on Ethernet |~
\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/
------------------------------
From: Robert Kaelin <kaelin@natural.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 12:10:20 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bargle (The Party's over!) :-)
>
> I'm confused. I thought this was going off list and here it is
>again. I don't imagine it will go away soon if there is going to be a game
>of "*I* get the last public word in," which it looks like to me based on
>this post. The non-flameware discussions of Bargle are still going on and
>are of interest to me, and I'd like to continue reading them without having
>to wade through the flame version. Please consider forgetting about getting
>parting shots in and just take it to private. I don't appreciate getting
>caught in the crossfire.
>
>Thanks for your consideration.
It was. I sent this out Thursday morning at 9am. Apparently Mystara's
list server saw fit to keep the flame war going by not posting it until
Friday night/Saturday morning.
It is over, it was over, it will be over
I'm sorry i wrote it in the first place. I'm even sorryier it took 2 days
for the mail to hit.
(shrug) what can you do?
- -Bob
- ----------------------------------------------------------
Bob Kaelin Natural Intelligence, Inc.
E-mail: Kaelin@natural.com 725 Concord Ave.
Phone: (617) 876-7680 x1253 Cambridge, Ma. 02138
WWW:<http://www.natural.com> USA
- ----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 13:55:19 -0400 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Savage Coast Monstorous Compendium
> Since nobody else has apparently mentioned this yet I thought I would. The new
> Monstrous Compendium is at mpgn. There are two files J and R. R is the RTF
> format and J is all the JPEG's.
And if anybody needs a plaintext copy, I have one available; it's 474K
unzipped, and I'd appreciate it if somebody could put it on MPGN so I
don't have to do too many mailings of it. :)
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
who has just turned 20 years old today. :)
------------------------------
From: Estlor <estlor@geocities.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 15:19:14 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bargle (The Party's over!) :-)
<snip>
My one-and-a-half cents:
I've never heard of Barimor before this conversation and I've played in
Mystara for ten years. Go fig?
Estlor
------------------------------
From: Estlor <estlor@geocities.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 15:23:12 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Alfheim War
> At 15.25 10/10/96 -0200, you wrote:
> >
> We have been discussing this subject (as you all know) and it seems we
> should have a consensus on when this war is going to happen, if it will be
> happening at all. So I am asking you all to give your opinions about the
> date, so we can work an "official" option. I believe the war should be
> starting around 1015-1016, Herve feels (correct if I am wrong, please) it
> would be better after 1020, but he hasn't suggested a year yet. Just post
> when you believe thw war will be happening and I will count the votes.
>
1018 at the earliest.
------------------------------
From: Matthew Levy <mlevy@orion.oac.uci.edu>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 12:21:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Re: [Mystara] The Alfheim War
On 11 Oct 1996, Andrew McKinstry wrote:
> You wrote:
>
> You're missing the whole point. The original Elven spell REVERSED the
> flow of weather in the entire KW. If the spell is destroyed, rain will
> begin moving in from the EAST over the sea and into the Alasiyan desert,
> which will become lush and fertile again. The rains which move through
> Darokin and into the Canolbarth will dwindle and die, leaving the whole of
> Darokin a dry wasteland. These are the stakes of such a war.
>
> m@2
>
>
> In Gaz 5 It says that the Canolbarth was not a barren desert wasteland but a
> shrub oak brushland. Darokin is still relatively close to the sea, so it
> should still get its standard amount of rain.
>
>
> Andrew McKinstry
>
oops. I thought I remembered differently, my mistake.
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 16:51:09 -0400 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Timeline v1.2 part 10
> > 1150 AC: The deaths of High King Maramet of Vestland
> >and his sole heir throw the nation into a political turmoil.
> >The Sorona, the enchanted crown of Vestland, is sought by
> >various factions hoping to claim the throne.
> I thought that this event is now officially in the past. Don't the PWA's say
> that the current King of Vestland, Harald Gudmundson I think it is, was
> King Maramets' heir in the module X13, I can't remember what his name was.
> What is the "official-net-word" on this then?
Actually, in X13, King Maramet had two sons.. Thendel and Tenitar. I
can't speak for everybody :), but the 1150 AC date comes straight from
GAZ7 - so I assumed it was accurate, and put it in the timeline.
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 17:05:20 -0400 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 6
> >Mind you, I'm curious about the seeming lack of Savage Coast transportees
> >to the Hollow World.. perhaps some of the 'pre-civilized' rakasta and
> >lupins are running around there?
> What about:
> 1.The Wallara, before they were hit by the spell of forgetting
> 2.Tortles, before their civilization was destroyed by the goblioid hordes
Both good ideas; where do you think they should be placed?
> 3.The original inhabitants of Bellayne, before they all died mysteriously
Could you refresh my ailing, ancient memory :) on these people?
> 4.Aranea, while they still lived happily in their spider forms
Actually, there's still a large number of spider-only Aranea spread
throughout Mystara, who are in no danger of extinction.. they're on the
Great Escarpment on the Isle of Dawn, and in the Thanegoith Archepeligo,
at least.
> Just a few ideas, tell me what you think
Assuming all of these were before the Red Curse, it should be fairly easy
to find homes for them.. but I'm curious what the Immortal who moves and
Cursed peoples to the Hollow World might do.
Say.. one of the campaign ideas in Red Steel was getting rid of the Red
Curse... do you think that any Immortals would be interested in preserving
Red Curse culture, if anybody succeeds in that quest?
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
who now has copies of X4, X5, and AC1... aren't birthdays grand? ;)
------------------------------
From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 02:39:25 +0200
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bargle (The Party's over!) :-)
>My one-and-a-half cents:
>
>I've never heard of Barimor before this conversation and I've played in
>Mystara for ten years. Go fig?
>
>Estlor
I=B4ve played in Mystara only for about eight years, but I also haven=B4t=
heard
anything about him. (At least I can=B4t remeber anything about him!)
So does this mean Estlor and me don=B4t know sh*t about Mystara, or what?
I really think some people get too absolut in their statements! And they
like it more to start a flame than to explain!
***************************************************************************
Peter Balazs
(a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at)
http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
***************************************************************************
------------------------------
From: Alad3@aol.com
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 08:22:20 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 6
In einer eMail vom 12.10.1996 23:31:01, schreiben Sie:
>Assuming all of these were before the Red Curse, it should be fairly easy
>to find homes for them.. but I'm curious what the Immortal who moves and
>Cursed peoples to the Hollow World might do.
He'd either have to cure them all (which might destroy some elements of the
culture, in which case he would use the second option) or create a new,
cursed area in the HW. This would have interesting consequences for the
prehistoric animals there (imagine, a Tryanosaurus with a legacy-scary).
Alad3
------------------------------
From: Alad3@aol.com
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 08:19:42 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 6
In einer eMail vom 12.10.1996 23:31:01, schreiben Sie:
>> What about:
>> 1.The Wallara, before they were hit by the spell of forgetting
>> 2.Tortles, before their civilization was destroyed by the goblioid hordes
> Both good ideas; where do you think they should be placed?
>
I'd say on one of those two continents (cant think of their names) that were
meant for the DM's own cultures.
>> 3.The original inhabitants of Bellayne, before they all died mysteriously
> Could you refresh my ailing, ancient memory :) on these people?
>
>
The only thing you forgot about them is- there is no information about them,
except that they all died mysteriously (some say that was the first time the
Red Curse struck).
Alad3
------------------------------
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 14:47:48 +0100
Subject: [Mystara] Fort Marny & Fort Nar
Did anyone noticed that in Gaz14 (Atruaghin Clans) and WotI maps there are
two forts in Darokin, that weren't shown neither in the Darokin Gaz, nor in
the Trail Maps ? Fort Marny and Fort Nar are located along the Atruaghin
border, at the edge of the swamp.
This two forts aren't included even in the "Armies of the World" section in
the PWAs. Another TSR inconsistency ?
Possible explanation: this are old Forts, now abandoned because Atruaghin is
no more a treath.
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it
DM in City Of The Stars
aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton
aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr
Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V1 #265
*****************************
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mystara-digest Monday, 14 October 1996 Volume 01 : Number 266
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 12:12:58 -0400 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 6
> >Assuming all of these were before the Red Curse, it should be fairly easy
> >to find homes for them.. but I'm curious what the Immortal who moves and
> >Cursed peoples to the Hollow World might do.
> He'd either have to cure them all (which might destroy some elements of the
> culture, in which case he would use the second option) or create a new,
> cursed area in the HW.
Hm.. possibly something like the 'techno' field near the Blacklore elves?
Or would the Immortal(s) in question also transport cinnabryl, vermeil,
and all the rest? Either way, the "Curse" would be confined to one area.
> This would have interesting consequences for the
> prehistoric animals there (imagine, a Tryanosaurus with a legacy-scary).
<grin> I believe that the Savage Coast Monstrous Compendium file (at
MPGN) covers this.. still a fun idea, though.
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 12:04:42 -0400 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 6
> >> What about:
> >> 1.The Wallara, before they were hit by the spell of forgetting
> >> 2.Tortles, before their civilization was destroyed by the goblioid hordes
> > Both good ideas; where do you think they should be placed?
> I'd say on one of those two continents (cant think of their names) that were
> meant for the DM's own cultures.
The two to the west are Aerical and Suridal, while the one to the east
(with the transplanted Sindhis) is Jomphur. Perhaps just north of the Mer
of Utat, which is about the same latitude?
> >> 3.The original inhabitants of Bellayne, before they all died mysteriously
> > Could you refresh my ailing, ancient memory :) on these people?
> The only thing you forgot about them is- there is no information about them,
> except that they all died mysteriously (some say that was the first time the
> Red Curse struck).
Ah... by any chance, were these the oh-so-famous-for-mysteriously-
disappearing Nithians? :)
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 11:58:54 -0400 (EST)
Subject: [Mystara] Nithian Immortals
I was just going through GAZ4: Ierendi, when I noticed mention of a
Nithian Immortal I don't recall seeing anywhere else - Orisis (not
Osiris), a hawk-headed, good Immortal. Anybody know anything about him,
besides what's in GAZ4?
That reminds me.. in FNN (yeah, I know, it's nowhere /near/ canon :) ),
there's two interesting entries...
Mystara: The Kingdom of Nithia: (HOLLOW WORLD, general)
The daughter of a woman who revered cats has taken to following
Bast, a hither-to unheard-of Immortal, and it appears that she is
manifesting some clerical powers. Clerics of the other Nithian
Immortals are expressing some concern, but are merely watching her
at this point.
and
Mystara : Hollow World : The Kingdom of Nithia : Tothys :
HEDONISTIC CULT RESURFACES
Kharabasta, a young woman in the small town of Tothys, began
manifesting clerical powers a month ago, has recently formed a very
small following for the Immortal called Bast. A few of the oldest of
Nithian writings had mentioned this Immortal, but worship had ended
millenia before.
Kharabasta, along with a half dozen of her followers, has
announced that she is taking them on a pilgramage into the desert to
the west, where she and her followers supposedly will be founding a
new village, Basta.
Anybody think Hel's up to her old tricks again, trying to sneak up some
new followers?
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Alad3@aol.com
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 17:02:59 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 6
In einer eMail vom 13.10.1996 18:17:52, schreiben Sie:
>Ah... by any chance, were these the oh-so-famous-for-mysteriously-
>disappearing Nithians? :)
>
>
No these guys disappeared a bit later. No idea who they were.
Alad3
------------------------------
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 23:25:19 +0100
Subject: [Mystara] 2 questions about 'noids
1) According to RC only goblins and kobolds have infrasion. Is this true or
do all humanoids races have infrasion ? And if not, do they use torches in
the Lower Broken Lands ?
2) Oenkmarians use a particular lizard named "strider", but no stats are
given for this monster. Can we assume it has the same stats of a Rockhome
Lizard (maybe it is the same creature) ?
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it
DM in City Of The Stars
aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton
aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr
Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 18:16:03 -0400 (EST)
Subject: [Mystara] Bargle's items in Dragon?
I recall somebody mentioned that one Dragon's Bazaar of the Bizarre had a
list of some of Bargle's magic rings and other items; however, I don't
remember which issue of Dragon it was. I think it was #214 or #217 or so..
could somebody remind me?
Thanks,
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 18:34:09 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Fort Marny & Fort Nar
In a message dated 96-10-13 10:10:51 EDT, brizio@lunet.it (Fabrizio Paoli)
writes:
<< Possible explanation: this are old Forts, now abandoned because Atruaghin
is
no more a treath. >>
There is just one problem with that explanation: Atruaghin never was a
threat to the rest of the world.
------------------------------
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 18:33:57 -0400
Subject: Barimoor (was Re: [Mystara] Bargle (The Party's over!) :-)
In a message dated 96-10-12 16:10:31 EDT, estlor@geocities.com (Estlor)
writes:
<< I've never heard of Barimor before this conversation and I've played in
Mystara for ten years. Go fig? >>
That is no surprise -- he is mentioned only in Gaz 2, The Emirates of
Ylaruam, and he doesn't seem to be doing much even there. The
relative inactivity of Barimoor is in stark contrast to the major wars
started by the Master of Hule.
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 18:14:26 -0400 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Fort Marny & Fort Nar
> Did anyone noticed that in Gaz14 (Atruaghin Clans) and WotI maps there are
> two forts in Darokin, that weren't shown neither in the Darokin Gaz, nor in
> the Trail Maps ? Fort Marny and Fort Nar are located along the Atruaghin
> border, at the edge of the swamp.
No, I'd never noticed these forts myself.. thanks for bringing them to
our attention.
> This two forts aren't included even in the "Armies of the World" section in
> the PWAs. Another TSR inconsistency ?
Possibly.. don't forget, not all the Gazzes were written by the same
people. The fun part is reconciling all the (apparant) inconsistencies. :)
> Possible explanation: this are old Forts, now abandoned because Atruaghin is
> no more a threat.
Possibly.. or perhaps they're "government secrets", not known to the
common soldier, in case of invasion from the west.. anybody care to stage
a "covert ops" adventure? :)
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Patrick <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 23:31:45 +0000
Subject: [Mystara] Barimoor & GAZ2
I never saw any posts describing Barimoor, only discussing him, so I'm
posting his info as given in GAZ2. But first, as long as I'm looking in
GAZ2, I notice that in all the arguments about the climate changes that
would come about because of the end of the elven weather magic in
Canolbarth, no one pointed out that GAZ2 indicates that the climate changes
and desertification of Ylaruam came in 500 BC. IIRC, this was well before
Alfheim was founded.
Barimoor was an Alphatian wizard wou just got bored with being only one of a
thousand 36th level magic-users in Alphatia. Around 200 AC, he and a bunch
of his monstrous and magical minions moved to the new Alphatian colony in
Ylaruam. They all moved to the Great Alasiyan Basin and summoned armies of
elementals to build them an enormous underground complex beneath the salt
flats. The subterranean stronghold is hidden by Barimoor's powerful magic,
including artifacts and interplanar magic.
Barimoor has been questing on the path of the Paragon for centuries:
Quest: He's considering two possibilities here: either he will steal the
Celestial Planisphere from a local wizard (but he still can't find it) or
else he will find a way to get the Bead of Oblivion buried under
Surra-Man-Raa (this could be very interesting if he were to break the spell
of oblivion over Nithia).
Trial: He is still thinking of something completely original. He has
already created Soul Daggers, which are intelligent weapons that control
their users, allowing Barimoor to have many unknowing servants throughout
Ylaruam.
Testimony: He's already had plenty of apprentices rise under him. The
transformation of the land for 100 miles surrounding his home is progressing
underground. Basically he's creating an enormous cave system beneath
Ylaruam and filling it with all sorts of unthinkable monsters. GAZ2 says
that at this rate it will be completed in 1 or 2 centuries.
Task: Although he believes himself to already be the most powerful
magic-user within 1000 miles, he is so conservative that he is waiting until
everything else is in place to make his final move.
Barimoor is a truly great master villain: his lair is the size of a modern
city, with hundreds of thousands of monsters of nearly infinite variety; he
is completely and thoroughly evil, with plenty of other powerful evil
assistants; despite his evilness, he is thoroughly sensible, intelligent,
practical, and conservative; he has been stockpiling magic and arms for 800
years. He is behind all sorts of trouble in the past 800 years, and he'll
be increasingly troublesome as he gets closer and closer to immortality.
There are endless campaign opportunities with Barimoor, especially
considering that he'll be ready for his final push about the same thime as
the second war of the Master (if it happens in 1200 AC). Seems to me that
Barimoor gaining immortality in the sphere of energy will be just one more
move of energy towards the side of evil.
I hope this helps everyone who said that they had no clue who Barimoor was,
but you should really check out GAZ2.
------------------------------
From: StarHawk <starhawk@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 21:33:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mystara] Priest of Opal
Opal (Celestial of Matter)
Sun Dragon, Ruler of Neutral Dragons
Alignment: TN
Sex: Female
Race: Dragon
Clerical Alignment: Any Neutral
Followers Alignment: Any Neutral
Required Abilities: Wisdom 12
Intelligence 9
Weapons Allowed: Any Bludgeoning (most worshippers are
dragons and do not use weapons)
Spells Granted:
All (Major)
Divination (Major)
Elemental Earth (Major)
Healing (Major)
Guardian (Major)
Necromantic (Major)
Protection (Major)
Sun (Major)
Granted Powers:
Continual Light once per day.
Receive d10 Hit Points per level instead of d8
Receive exceptional Con and Str bonuses as a fighter
Aquire the languages of Dragon-kin (or Human-kin for Dragons) at
the rate of one per level.
Cast Know Alignment once per day.
Cast Polymorph Self and Shapechange as if they were normal priest
spells.
Symbol: A crown resembling a snake swallowing its own tail w/ an opal on
the snake's head.
Interests: Neutral Dragons
Worshipped in: Anywhere there are dragons.
------------------------------
From: StarHawk <starhawk@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 21:50:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mystara] Priest of Pearl
Pearl (Celestial of Matter)
Moon Dragon, Ruler of Chaotic Dragons
Alignment: CN
Sex: Female
Race: Dragon
Clerical Alignment: Any Chaotic
Followers Alignment: Any Chaotic
Required Abilities: Wisdom 12
Intelligence 9
Weapons Allowed: Any Bludgeoning (most worshippers are dragons and do
not use weapons)
Spells Granted:
All (Major)
Chaos (Major)
Divination (Major)
Elemental Earth (Major)
Healing (Major)
Guardian (Major)
Necromantic (Major)
Protection (Major)
Sun (Major)
Granted Powers:
Infravision 60'
Control Undead
Receive d10 Hit Points per level instead of d8
Receive exceptional Con and Str bonuses as a fighter
Aquire the languages of Dragon-kin (or Human-kin for Dragons) at
the rate of one per level.
Symbol: A crown resembling a snake swallowing its own tail w/ a pearl on
the snake's head.
Interests: Chaotic Dragons
Worshipped in: Anywhere there are dragons.
------------------------------
From: StarHawk <starhawk@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 21:22:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mystara] Priest of Odin
Odin (Hierarch of Thought)
Alignment: NG
Sex: Male
Race: Unknown
Clerical Alignment: Any Good
Followers Alignment: Any
Required Abilities: Wisdom 12
Weapons Allowed: Spears, javelins, and pikes
Spells Granted:
All (Major)
Divination (Major)
Numbers (Major)
Rune Spells (Special)
Thought (Major)
Weather (Major)
Granted Powers:
Clerics of Odin may specialize in the use of one of their allowed
weapons.
Clerics of Odin may cast Reincarnate as a fourth level spell.
Clerics of Odin may cast spells of the Wizard schools of Greater
and
Lesser Divination as if they were normal priest spells.
At 3rd level a cleric of Odin may cast Find Familiar. This spell may
be
only if the Cleric does not currently have a familiar, and will
always summon a Raven. In all other respects this ability is
identical to the mage spell of the same name.
Once per day starting at 5th level a Cleric of Odin may throw a
Javelin of Lightining.
Clerics of Odin may learn Power Runes as described in Gaz7 Northern
Reaches. This may be done without the loss of a Constitution
point.
However, the Cleric must still follow the spells and rituals
described in Gaz7.
Clerics of Odin do not receive Purify Food & Water.
Symbol: The silhouette of two ravens facing each other, the head of a man
between them.
Interests: Wise Rulers, Living Life to the Fullest
Worshipped in: Everywhere, most common in the Northern Reaches
------------------------------
From: StarHawk <starhawk@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 21:39:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mystara] Priest of Orcus
Orcus (Eternal of Entropy)
Master of the Dead, The Black Prince, The Goat
Alignment: CE
Sex: Male
Race: Devil Swine
Clerical Alignment: Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Evil
Followers Alignment: Any Chaotic or Evil except Chaotic Good
Required Abilities: Wisdom 9
Strength 9
Intelligence 9
Weapons Allowed: Any Bludgeoning plus Whip and Scourge
Spells Granted:
All (Major)
Chaos (Major)
Charm (Major)
Combat (Major)
Healing (Major, Reversed Only)
Necromantic (Major, Reversed Only)
War (Major)
Granted Powers:
Control Undead
Receive d10 Hit Points per level instead of d8
Receive exceptional Con and Str bonuses as a fighter
Cast the spells of the Invocation/Evocation school as if they were
normal priest spells.
Cast Charm Person 3x per day.
If desired upon reaching 5th level, or any time thereafter the
Cleric may choose to become a DevilSwine (Wereswine). This change
is permanent and affords all abilities and limitations of the new
form.
-2 AC bonus when fighting demi-humans.
Symbol: A goats head with ram's horns.
Interests: Mass destruction
Worshipped in: Various cults scattered across
the world.
------------------------------
From: StarHawk <starhawk@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 21:20:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mystara] Priest of Noumena
I believe I left off about here....
Noumena (Reigning Hierarch of Thought)
Alignment: TN
Sex: Male
Race: Human (Nithian)
Clerical Alignment: Any
Followers Alignment: Any
Required Abilities: Wisdom 12
Intelligence 9
Weapons Allowed: Any mechanical weapon, plus staves
Spells Granted:
All (Major)
Divination (Major)
Numbers (Major)
Thought (Major)
Granted Powers:
Clerics of Noumena never receive false readings from Divination
spells if such a result is possible.
Clerics of Noumena may cast spells of the Wizard schools of
Greater and Lesser Divination as if they were normal priest
spells.
Clerics of Noumena automatically posess the Obscure Knowledge
trait. Characters with this trait may make an Intelligence
Check (or have one made for them) to see if they remember some
bit of trivia pertaining to the situation at hand. The
information may or may not be useful.
Clerics of Noumena are under the effects of a permanant version of
the priest spell True Seeing. The spell grants all abilities
of the priest spell but the effects are not obvious. Invisible
creatures are merely visible, polymorphed creatures appear as
their true form, etc. For this reason not all differences
between the priest's vision and the vision of the priest's
companions may be immediately apparant.
Clerics of Noumena receive the Mystic ability Awareness and are
only surprised on a roll of one.
Clerics of Noumena receive the Mystic ability Mind Block making
them immune to sleep, hold, charm, ESP, quest, and geas spells
or effects.
Symbol: A gameboard
Interests: Puzzles, Mysteries, and Riddles
Worshipped in: Everywhere
------------------------------
From: Estlor <estlor@geocities.com>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 21:54:29 -0400
Subject: [Mystara] Alasyan Desert
I recall from an old thread someone stating the elves messing with
weather patterns was to blame for Ylaruam being a desert. From what I
remember reading, the Immortals are to blame for the desert, for when
they whiped Nithia off the face of Mystara they did something like avert
the rivers and make the land inhospitable.
And while I'm on the topic of the desert, It been a while since I saw
the map of the KW from WotI set (I lost it somewhere in my room), but I
vaugely recall seeing the desert as a brushland now and not a
wasteland. But when I get the map out of K:KoA boxed set it is a desert
again. Hmm...just have to chalk that up to more TSR inconsitancies (or
they changed their minds)
Estlor
------------------------------
From: StarHawk <starhawk@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 21:45:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mystara] Priest of Ordana
Ordana (Hierarch of Time)
Forest Mother, Thendara
Alignment: NG
Sex: Female
Race: Treant
Clerical Alignment: Any Neutral
Followers Alignment: Any
Required Abilities: Wisdom 12
Charisma 15
Weapons Allowed: Any Druidic
Spells Granted:
All (Major)
Animal (Major)
Elemental (Major)
Healing (Major)
Plant (Major)
Sun (Major)
Weather (Major)
Granted Powers:
Clerics of Ordana have the power to call spirits of nature or animals
to aid them. (qv Spells & Magic pp. 34-38)
Clerics of Ordana may Move Silently or Hide in Shadows in wilderness
settings as a thief of equal level.
At 3rd level Clerics of Ordana may identify plants, animals, and
clean water with perfect accuracy, identical to druids.
Clerics of Ordana may learn to communicate with any forest race which
a Druid can.
At 3rd level a Cleric of Ordana may pass without trace the woodlands
as a Druid can.
Clerics of Ordana may only wear armors made of natural or once living
materials. (Identical to Druid restriction)
Symbol: An Oak Leaf
Interests: Forests, Nature, Woodland Creatures
Worshipped in: Minrothad (Wood Elves), and by most forest races other than
elves
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 18:47:36 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mystara] Savage Coast meets the Hollow World?
On Fri, 11 Oct 1996, Daniel Boese wrote:
> > >given the culture, dress, and attitudes of the Krugel orcs in the hollow
> > >world, wouldn't it make more sense if they were transplanted from the
> > >Savage Baronies (RS) area and not from part of the Great Horde in the KW?
>
> <nods and smiles> I couldn't have phrased it better myself.
> Mind you, I'm curious about the seeming lack of Savage Coast transportees
> to the Hollow World.. perhaps some of the 'pre-civilized' rakasta and
> lupins are running around there?
Could be very possible- keep in mind that the Hollow World boxed set came
out long before the Savage Coast was ever explored (and documented) in
the Princess Ark series. Hence, the lack of SC cultures in the Hollow
World. It wouldn't be at all difficult to drop them in there, though.
I can definitely see Texeiran pirates among the Merry Pirate 'culture'.
Perhaps the current Krugel culture was influenced by later additions of
Savage Coast transplants?
------------------------------
From: Estlor <estlor@geocities.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 00:51:09 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 14
Finally got through reading and compairing this huge timeline with the
old one, and I came up with one tiny little gripe:
> Winter: The Thousand Wizards of Alphatia teleport to
> the skies over Glantri City and begin a magical bombardment.
> The Nucleus of the Spheres is destroyed and Glantri is
> devastated. Immediately afterward, earthquakes rock Alphatia,
> and the continent sinks deep beneath the sea. Etienne
> d'Ambreville vanishes.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but does the G:KoM Boxed set not state
that if the Nucleus of the Spheres was destroyed, all of magic in
Mystara would go too? Perhaps you meant the Machine Rad used to set off
the Sundsvall Maelstrom was destroyed. Just a little nit to pick.
Estlor
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V1 #266
*****************************
mystara-digest Tuesday, 15 October 1996 Volume 01 : Number 267
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Estlor <estlor@geocities.com>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 22:00:32 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] 2 questions about 'noids
Fabrizio Paoli wrote:
> 1) According to RC only goblins and kobolds have infrasion. Is this > true or do all humanoids races have infrasion ? And if not, do they > use torches in the Lower Broken Lands ?
>From what I have, it shows the following humanoids to have infravision:
Bugbear, Goblin, Hobgoblin, Kobold, and Orc. Any other ones must use
torches or magical lights, I guess.
> 2) Oenkmarians use a particular lizard named "strider", but no stats > are given for this monster. Can we assume it has the same stats of a > Rockhome Lizard (maybe it is the same creature) ?
>
No stats that I can find either...perhaps that would be the case. After
all, the MC Appendix for Mystara does list a whole lot of creatures that
have other names in other worlds, why can't on lizard breed have two or
more names in Mystara.
Estlor
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 18:59:14 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Time Immortals
On Fri, 11 Oct 1996, Daniel Boese wrote:
> I tend to follow the "Chronomancer Theory of Time Travel".. you can go
> back and /try/ to change anything, but the timestream does its utmost to
> keep history as close to the original as it can - if you kill the general
> of a major battle, the major takes over, and so on.. An intelligent
> time-traveller can change things deliberately, but it takes a good deal of
> effort.
Interesting- sort of like the Dragonlance Legends trilogy (arguably three
of the best books in that series), where Raistlin tries to change
history, but Caramon ends up becoming the General, and Raistlin ends up
becoming Fistandantilus- guess he just couldn't fight the Timestream, eh? :)
> Candidates for Time have to go forwards in time to 3 spots in the future
> of their dynasty.. They must help 3 descendants, who should be further
> ahead in time than the grandchild heir. Now, since Al-Kalim's heir ruled
> ~860 AC.. he could pop up at any time, now. :)
True enough. Maybe he will return, in some form or another. Somehow, I
doubt he would attempt to pass himself off as Al-Kalim, but maybe under
an assumed guise?
> > In one of my projects, a cartoon set in Mystara, one of the antagonists
> > is a time traveller with some very interesting secrets...
> Will this ever be available to the list members? :)
I hope so. I have it pretty much plotted out (ie, I know where it begins
and ends, and some ideas of the in-between), and am currently working on
drawing the first few pages of it. I am looking into getting a homepage
soon, and if so, it will appear there for anyone to see, but if not, I
will see about perhaps sending it to those interested. I will keep you
informed. :)
(It's sort of slow going at the moment, as I am such a perfectionist
about the appearance. :)
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 19:08:40 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Fort Marny & Fort Nar
On Sun, 13 Oct 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote:
> Did anyone noticed that in Gaz14 (Atruaghin Clans) and WotI maps there are
> two forts in Darokin, that weren't shown neither in the Darokin Gaz, nor in
> the Trail Maps ? Fort Marny and Fort Nar are located along the Atruaghin
> border, at the edge of the swamp.
> This two forts aren't included even in the "Armies of the World" section in
> the PWAs. Another TSR inconsistency ?
> Possible explanation: this are old Forts, now abandoned because Atruaghin is
> no more a treath.
Actually, when I ran X3- Curse of Xanathon, I placed it nearby
(substituting Port Tenobar for Rhoona), and I noticed this. I thought it
was a bit odd, too, but I decided they were there due to the presence of
the Tiger Clan (who hadn't been developed yet). I said that a few of the
regiments from Fort ? (up by Lake Amsorak- one of the easiest assignments
in Darokin, as the Bear Clan is not at all hostile) would spend part of
the year down in these forts, in rotation. No need for additional troops.
Also, note that that area is a Borderland territory (part of the plot I
reworked for X3), and those forts could very well be stocked by troops in
the employ of the magistrate of the area, and not under Republic
jurisdiction.
------------------------------
From: Gabriele Ferri <fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 12:24:53 +-100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Alfheim War
If there will be a war, IMO it will be after 1025. But I'm not sure that a war is the best thing.
Gabriele Ferri - fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it
------------------------------
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 10:50:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] 2 questions about 'noids
Estlor pontificated:
>
> Fabrizio Paoli wrote:
>
> > 1) According to RC only goblins and kobolds have infrasion. Is this > true or do all humanoids races have infrasion ? And if not, do they > use torches in the Lower Broken Lands ?
>
> >From what I have, it shows the following humanoids to have infravision:
> Bugbear, Goblin, Hobgoblin, Kobold, and Orc. Any other ones must use
> torches or magical lights, I guess.
>
Another possibility, other races can see at very low light, and there
are fungi, minerals, etc, that emit some lights down there, not
enough for the surface races to see, but enough for the races used to
near darkness. I don't think torches are feasible, too much a resource
drain, and probably too much smoke and fumes. And I don't think
those races have that much magical lights, unless maybe they found alot
of inhrently magical light gems or something.
- --
Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering
Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu
(1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu
(2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept.
Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely
irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur.
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 14:24:22 -0400 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 14
On Mon, 14 Oct 1996, Estlor wrote:
> > Winter: The Thousand Wizards of Alphatia teleport to
> > the skies over Glantri City and begin a magical bombardment.
> > The Nucleus of the Spheres is destroyed and Glantri is
> > devastated. Immediately afterward, earthquakes rock Alphatia,
> > and the continent sinks deep beneath the sea. Etienne
> > d'Ambreville vanishes.
>
> Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but does the G:KoM Boxed set not state
> that if the Nucleus of the Spheres was destroyed, all of magic in
> Mystara would go too? Perhaps you meant the Machine Rad used to set off
> the Sundsvall Maelstrom was destroyed. Just a little nit to pick.
Welll... this particular incident occurs right at the very end of the
Wrath of the Immortals adventure. The PCs are supposed to go down to the
Nucleus and 'fix' it (to draw from Entropy instead of Energy). But.. this
little item is listed in the box's 1004-1009 timeline along with
everything else. The proviso is in the adventure portion, where it says
that unless the PCs fix the Nucleus blah blah blah, the Thousand Wizards
will come over the next day and blast Glantri City... Either way, Etienne
disappears, and Alphatia sinks.
In my own games, though, I usually ignore this particular entry, assuming
that a group of PCs I haven't yet played fixed the durn thing. :)
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 14:44:41 -0400 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Time Immortals
> > I tend to follow the "Chronomancer Theory of Time Travel"..
> Interesting- sort of like the Dragonlance Legends trilogy (arguably three
> of the best books in that series)
(matched only by the Chronocles now-a-quadrology. Oddly enough, I
consider both Dragonlance serieses better than the Dragonlord trilogy.
Hm.)
> where Raistlin tries to change
> history, but Caramon ends up becoming the General, and Raistlin ends up
> becoming Fistandantilus- guess he just couldn't fight the Timestream, eh? :)
Something like that... mind you, there's a few notes in GAZ3 about
timetravel - part of which don't apply anymore, since Chronomancer makes a
major point that you can never be in the same time twice. (Actually, you
just can't duplicate your 'personal timeline', which can be gotten around
a few ways.)
Anybody care to send their PCs back to try to keep the Nucleus from
becoming the magic-draining artifact it is today? :)
> > Candidates for Time have to go forwards in time to 3 spots in the future
> > of their dynasty.. They must help 3 descendants, who should be further
> > ahead in time than the grandchild heir. Now, since Al-Kalim's heir ruled
> > ~860 AC.. he could pop up at any time, now. :)
> True enough. Maybe he will return, in some form or another. Somehow, I
> doubt he would attempt to pass himself off as Al-Kalim, but maybe under
> an assumed guise?
Almost certainly - after all, everybody in Ylarum /knows/ Al-Kalim is an
Immortal.. who'd believe that he's the real thing? :)
> I hope so. I have it pretty much plotted out (ie, I know where it begins
> and ends, and some ideas of the in-between), and am currently working on
> drawing the first few pages of it. I am looking into getting a homepage
> soon, and if so, it will appear there for anyone to see, but if not, I
> will see about perhaps sending it to those interested. I will keep you
> informed. :)
Well, if you'd like any non-artistic :) help, just ask.
> (It's sort of slow going at the moment, as I am such a perfectionist
> about the appearance. :)
(You won't get any complaints from me on that account.. :) )
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 21:17:56 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bargle's items in Dragon?
At 18.16 13/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
> I recall somebody mentioned that one Dragon's Bazaar of the Bizarre had a
>list of some of Bargle's magic rings and other items; however, I don't
>remember which issue of Dragon it was. I think it was #214 or #217 or so..
>could somebody remind me?
>
#216
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it
DM in City Of The Stars
aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton
aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr
Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html
------------------------------
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 21:30:32 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Alasyan Desert
At 21.54 13/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>I recall from an old thread someone stating the elves messing with
>weather patterns was to blame for Ylaruam being a desert. From what I
>remember reading, the Immortals are to blame for the desert, for when
>they whiped Nithia off the face of Mystara they did something like avert
>the rivers and make the land inhospitable.
>
The Immortals are the ones to balme, true. But the people in Ylaruam think
that it were the elves that changed the weather pattern. I think this has
something to do with the fact that Immortals deleted all evidence of the
Nithian empire and no one know who they Nithian were and why they disappeared.
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it
DM in City Of The Stars
aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton
aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr
Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html
------------------------------
From: Patrick <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 20:55:46 +0000
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 14
>> > Winter: The Thousand Wizards of Alphatia teleport to
>> > the skies over Glantri City and begin a magical bombardment.
>> > The Nucleus of the Spheres is destroyed and Glantri is
>> > devastated. Immediately afterward, earthquakes rock Alphatia,
>> > and the continent sinks deep beneath the sea. Etienne
>> > d'Ambreville vanishes.
>>
>> Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but does the G:KoM Boxed set not state
>> that if the Nucleus of the Spheres was destroyed, all of magic in
>> Mystara would go too? Perhaps you meant the Machine Rad used to set off
>> the Sundsvall Maelstrom was destroyed. Just a little nit to pick.
>
> Welll... this particular incident occurs right at the very end of the
>Wrath of the Immortals adventure. The PCs are supposed to go down to the
>Nucleus and 'fix' it (to draw from Entropy instead of Energy). But.. this
>little item is listed in the box's 1004-1009 timeline along with
>everything else. The proviso is in the adventure portion, where it says
>that unless the PCs fix the Nucleus blah blah blah, the Thousand Wizards
>will come over the next day and blast Glantri City... Either way, Etienne
>disappears, and Alphatia sinks.
> In my own games, though, I usually ignore this particular entry, assuming
>that a group of PCs I haven't yet played fixed the durn thing. :)
You should check WotI again. The entries that you are talking about never
say that the nucleus is destroyed, only that the Doomsday weapon is
activated. As you say, though, this entry is probably best ignored,
although DMs should figure out some way to time the activation of the
Doomsday Weapon to coincide with the end of the year so that the Day of
Dread will be consistent with the PWAs.
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 14:33:42 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] 2 questions about 'noids
I believe that stats on the Striders appear in both editions of the
Creature Catalog, as well as in B10, Night's Dark Terror and the Hollow
World boxed set. I may be wrong...
------------------------------
From: StarHawk <starhawk@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 21:03:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Time Immortals
>
> > > Candidates for Time have to go forwards in time to 3 spots in the future
> > > of their dynasty.. They must help 3 descendants, who should be further
> > > ahead in time than the grandchild heir. Now, since Al-Kalim's heir ruled
> > > ~860 AC.. he could pop up at any time, now. :)
> > True enough. Maybe he will return, in some form or another. Somehow, I
> > doubt he would attempt to pass himself off as Al-Kalim, but maybe under
> > an assumed guise?
> Almost certainly - after all, everybody in Ylarum /knows/ Al-Kalim is an
> Immortal.. who'd believe that he's the real thing? :)
I that case perhaps his best guise would be himself....
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 21:37:51 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] 2 questions about 'noids
On Sun, 13 Oct 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote:
> 1) According to RC only goblins and kobolds have infrasion. Is this true or
> do all humanoids races have infrasion ? And if not, do they use torches in
> the Lower Broken Lands ?
Here's my suggestion:
Kobolds & goblins have infravision. Given the Orcs' nocturnal
proclivities (penalties to hit in daylight), I'd say they do, too.
Hobgoblins, Gnolls, and larger creatures (Ogres, Trolls) probably do not.
They operate during daylight as well as night.
Bugbears, I could argue either way, but I'll err on the side of no
infravision, instead giving them great night vision (to aid in hunting).
Given that they do live underground generally, and the smaller races have
infravision, this is a good reason for them to use the gobs, kobs, etc as
slaves. ("Me can't see down tunnel. Send puny kobold to check it out."
[kobold is cowering in corner, because it sees a rather large
reddish/heat shape down the tunnel]).
Otherwise, I say do whatever you need at that moment. If you need an orc
without infravision, don't give it to him. Given the 'noids short
lifespans and tendency to interbreed with whatever strikes their fancy,
it isn't unreasonable for different abilities to show up from generation
to generation, or tribe to tribe.
ex. The goblins of the Dymrak forest may have lost their infravision, due
to centuries of living above ground in the forest (though they have great
night vision), whereas the goblins of High Gobliny may have good
infravision (better than normal, perhaps) from living primarily beneath
the ground.
Another example might be the Grugraakh Gnolls. Living below ground as
they do, perhaps they've developed infravision, whereas their cousins in
the hills of Soderfjord haven't.
> 2) Oenkmarians use a particular lizard named "strider", but no stats are
> given for this monster. Can we assume it has the same stats of a Rockhome
> Lizard (maybe it is the same creature) ?
I rechecked this earlier. It isn't listed under "Strider", but I seem to
recall that the Strider is just another name for the Giant Foot-pad
lizard mentioned in various products.
------------------------------
From: Steve Muchow <smuchow@origin.ea.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 00:39:17 -0500
Subject: [Mystara] (no subject)
remove smuchow@origin.ea.com mystara-l
------------------------------
From: MRRU13B@prodigy.com (MR TIMOTHY M DI BONA)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 10:38:42, -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] 2 questions about 'noids
<>
1) According to RC only goblins and kobolds have infrasion. Is this
true or
do all humanoids races have infrasion ? And if not, do they use
torches in
the Lower Broken Lands ?
<>
IMC most humanoids have infravision. I give orcs 30-60 feet
infravision typically. Since they have penalties in combat during the
daylight, I assume they have some sort of support in the darkness.
- -tim
------------------------------
From: MRRU13B@prodigy.com (MR TIMOTHY M DI BONA)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 10:54:52, -0500
Subject: [Mystara] Bargle: Is the party over?
<>
So does this mean Estlor and me don=B4t know sh*t about Mystara, or
what?
<>
okay listen now, kavid and many others have asked to stop the Bargle
wars seeing as it got out of hand. After, the post titled "The
Party's Over" I stopped any opinions and posts for that subject. Then
more people continued posting on the subject. I thought this may have
been because of the complaints of the time it takes for posts to
appear on the list, but now I realize that the posts are still
comeing in, included kavid himself. If you wish to continue the
argument, i have no problem, but make up your mind.
- -tim
------------------------------
From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 19:36:27 +0200
Subject: [Mystara] Barimoor
><>So does this mean Estlor and me don=3DB4t know sh*t about Mystara, or=20
>what?
><>
>okay listen now, kavid and many others have asked to stop the Bargle=20
>[...]
>comeing in, included kavid himself. If you wish to continue the=20
>argument, i have no problem, but make up your mind.
Okay, let me restate it!!!
I am and was not interested in seeing you continuing the argument, but would
have liked to get some information about this Barimoor, and not to get a
mail, which states that a Mystara-player has to know him!
Somebody now has posted that he is mentioned in GAZ2, and I=B4ve looked him
up! Also I think somebody has talked about his plans and his super-dungeon
and so on. These are things I liked and would have expected! Thank you!=20
***************************************************************************
Peter Balazs
(a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at)
http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
***************************************************************************
------------------------------
From: Matthew Levy <mlevy@orion.oac.uci.edu>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 13:01:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Bargle the Immortal?
can we PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE have a moratorium on the Bargle Battle? This
has gone on far too long, it is in no way useful to me nor probably to
many others on this list, and it is petty. I stay on this list in spite
of the unneccessary volume of mail it generates, because I love gaming in
Mystara and I love the idea of cooperating with other DM's I've never met
to expand and explore my favorite fantasy world. However I am sometimes
tempted to quit the list when people fill my inbox with personal debates
that contribute nothing to Mystara. By arguing back and forth over
Bargle, you are not bringing anything new to the common Mystara we all
share ... all you're doing is arguing over whose version of Mystara is
better. Sometimes disagreement and debate are necessary in order to reach
a consensus and express all points of view, but when it's not really going
anywhere new, what's the point? It's not interesting. Neither, I'm sure,
is my little rant against it, so this will be my last post on this
subject. Sorry if I'VE wasted anyone's time.
m@2
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V1 #267
*****************************
mystara-digest Thursday, 17 October 1996 Volume 01 : Number 268
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: MRJohnson <johnson@execulink.com>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 22:50:56 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nithian Immortals
Daniel Boese wrote:
>
> I was just going through GAZ4: Ierendi, when I noticed mention of a
> Nithian Immortal I don't recall seeing anywhere else - Orisis (not
> Osiris), a hawk-headed, good Immortal. Anybody know anything about him,
> besides what's in GAZ4?
To the best of my knowledge, there is no other mention of Orisis anywhere else. The
Kingdom of Nithia supplement talks about Nithian Immortals but does not mention this
one. There is an Immortal named Isiris, however. This is really Valerias and she serves
her usual function as a patron of love. She is not said to be hawk-headed though. The
Immortal, Horon (really Ixion) is said to sometimes appear as a hawk. Perhaps the
worship of "Orisis" somehow came about by the amalgamation of the faiths of Horon and
Isiris? Anybody else have any information?
Michael Ray Johnson.
------------------------------
From: "Jorge Villalobos" <factol@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 05:01:58 -0700
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Meteor (was: The Alfheim War)
>Fabrizio Paoli pontificated:
>>
>> Maybe the forested area around Aengmor may become drier, but I don't think
>> the Streel Plain would suffer any drought, though the combined effects of
>> the meteor in the Amsorak mountains and the corruption of the Canolbarth
>> forest would be felt for years in Darokin.
>>
>Humm, never thought about the meteor effect on climates. If meteor of
>that size struck Earth, it will probably kick up engough dust to
>cause a neuclear winter effect. But since there are no mention of
>that, should we just assume a magical meteor work differently from
>a real meteor?
Excelent point considering that it was a meteor that, probably, caused the
extintion of the dinosaurs on earth (it's only one of the theories).
Maybe we could explain the nice meteor as an energy blast sent by one of the
inmortals?
>
>Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu
>(1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu
>(2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept.
>Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely
>irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur.
>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
| ==(W{==========- |
| || (.--.) |
| | \_,|**|,__ Jorge Villalobos Duran |
| `\ ' `--' ), Universidad de los Andes |
| `\_. .__/\ \ factol@hotmail.com |
| | . |""""| jo-villa@uniandes.edu.co |
| /==0==-\<>/ jvillalobos@envirolink.org |
| | / \ | Tel (571) 2585382 |
| ( ) ( ) |
| | ; | ; |
| | ; | ; |
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
___ _____
.'/,-Y" "~-.
l.Y ^.
/\ _\_
i ___/" "\ DOUGH!!!!
| /" "\ o !
l ] o !__./
\ _ _ \.___./ "~\
X \/ \ ___./
( \ ___. _..--~~" ~`-.
` Z,-- / \
\__. ( / ______)
\ l /-----~~" /
Y \ /
| "x______.^
| \
To the tune of ``Jingle Bells'':
Azathoth
Azathoth
Azathoth, the King
Center of the Universe,
Insanity he brings, Hey!
- ---------------------------------------------------------
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: "Jorge Villalobos" <factol@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 05:57:31 -0700
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Meteor (was: The Alfheim War)
>Actually it's not true that there's no mention to the meteor: looking in the
>PWA under Darokin/history I found that the ash and dust caused by the meteor
>fell in Darokin ruining harvest and fouling drinking water. Moreover,
>according to PWA II, the flood in Thaumont AC 1010 may have been caused by
>the dust-clouds raised by meteor that increased rainfall and snowfall during
>the winter.
Ok, but anyway an impact of that size and power must affect all the world
climate, not only the neighbors.
I mean, the climate is a chaotic system and no one will tell you for sure what
will happen with such an event but for sure some major catastrophic events and
not only in the climate but in the ecosystem and other things.
I think we should let the issue die and explain the meteor as a magic blast or
something like that
>
>**************
>Fabrizio Paolibrizio@lunet.it
>DM in City Of The Stars
>aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton
>aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr
>Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html
>
>
>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
| ==(W{==========- |
| || (.--.) |
| | \_,|**|,__ Jorge Villalobos Duran |
| `\ ' `--' ), Universidad de los Andes |
| `\_. .__/\ \ factol@hotmail.com |
| | . |""""| jo-villa@uniandes.edu.co |
| /==0==-\<>/ jvillalobos@envirolink.org |
| | / \ | Tel (571) 2585382 |
| ( ) ( ) |
| | ; | ; |
| | ; | ; |
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
___ _____
.'/,-Y" "~-.
l.Y ^.
/\ _\_
i ___/" "\ DOUGH!!!!
| /" "\ o !
l ] o !__./
\ _ _ \.___./ "~\
X \/ \ ___./
( \ ___. _..--~~" ~`-.
` Z,-- / \
\__. ( / ______)
\ l /-----~~" /
Y \ /
| "x______.^
| \
To the tune of ``Jingle Bells'':
Azathoth
Azathoth
Azathoth, the King
Center of the Universe,
Insanity he brings, Hey!
- ---------------------------------------------------------
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Alad3@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 10:46:19 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Meteor (was: The Alfheim War)
In einer eMail vom 16.10.1996 14:09:24, schreiben Sie:
>Excelent point considering that it was a meteor that, probably, caused the
>extintion of the dinosaurs on earth
On Mystara too :)
Alad3
------------------------------
From: Alad3@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 10:49:59 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Barimoor & GAZ2
In einer eMail vom 14.10.1996 01:54:18, schreiben Sie:
>no one pointed out that GAZ2 indicates that the climate changes
>and desertification of Ylaruam came in 500 BC. IIRC, this was well before
>Alfheim was founded.
Umm, since i'm not sure what IIRC means, perhaps i'm unjustifiedly
criticizing you, but Alfheim was founded (with Mealiden being crowned the
first king) in BC 700, 200 years BEFORE the climate changes in Ylaruam. And i
do believe having read somewhere that it WAS the elves changing of the
weather patterns that desertified Ylaruam.
Alad3
------------------------------
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 13:01:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Barimoor & GAZ2
Alad3@aol.com pontificated:
> Umm, since i'm not sure what IIRC means, perhaps i'm unjustifiedly
> criticizing you, but Alfheim was founded (with Mealiden being crowned the
> first king) in BC 700, 200 years BEFORE the climate changes in Ylaruam. And i
> do believe having read somewhere that it WAS the elves changing of the
> weather patterns that desertified Ylaruam.
>
Can someone point out to me where exactly was it said that the Elves
caused the climate change in Ylaruam? I don't remember reading about
it before the discussion started on this list? I always thought the
official explaination was that Ylaruam was somehow linked with
elemental plane of fire though some special gate.
- --
Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering
Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu
(1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu
(2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept.
Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely
irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur.
------------------------------
From: "David 'Azure' Leland" <dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 96 11:49:17 PDT
Subject: [Mystara] Dat Darn Meteor :)
Hey all,
I like it being a meteor, even though I, too, suspected from the
start that one of that size would have far deadlier an impact. I prefer to
leave it as a meteor rather than some energy blast (which is too unsubtle
even for Alphaks, methinks). There are lotsa fun ways you can explain it
not killing everyone and everything. Examples:
* One or more Immortals employed some intervention to reduce the effect.
Perhaps they a) intended to totally counteract it but were interrupted by
those objecting to direct interference; b) wanted to minimize any awareness
by Mystarans of the intervention and so allowed some effect rather than
making all of the bad effects disappear; c) had their efforts
counterbalances by Entropy Immortals using the great disaster as a cover to
spawn or magnify nasty things like drought and fallout.
* A group of high level adventurers discovered that the meteor was going to
hit Mystara (see WotI) and were unable to prevent impact but found some
magical way to minimize the nuclear winter effect. Perhaps they a)
discovered a spell to make unique metals in the meteor temporarily
super-dense, so that the gravity attracted a good proportion of the dust
that would have flown up into the atmosphere, making it fall back down very
quickly and locally (creating an interesting terrain in the crater); b)
gathered an army of flying creatures who could help dispose of the fallout
while it was still in the atmosphere (eat it? transmute it into some
gas?)--they were mostly but incompletely successful; c) opened up a very
very large _gate_ above the impact point so that most of the material thrown
upwards went through the _gate_ and not into the atmosphere. (low level
Immortals adventurers could do these things too, except with more political
headaches).
I'm sure there are infinitely more possibilities,
/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\
~| David "Azure" Leland ~|~ Email: dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu |~
~| UCSD Cognitive Science ~|~ Phone/Fax: (619) 642-6709 |~
~| Oberlin class of 1996 ~|~ Web: http://cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland |~
~| Amateur conguero; Q(O+H)Q(G+W)AEEEBGKUS Mystaran; P75 on Ethernet |~
\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/
------------------------------
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 23:04:43 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Barimoor & GAZ2
At 13.01 16/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Can someone point out to me where exactly was it said that the Elves
>caused the climate change in Ylaruam? I don't remember reading about
>it before the discussion started on this list? I always thought the
>official explaination was that Ylaruam was somehow linked with
>elemental plane of fire though some special gate.
>
IIRC it is mentioned in Gaz 5, in the section about adventures. It should be
in an adventure which involves a powerful undead (was it a lich ?) of
Nithian birth.
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it
DM in City Of The Stars
aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton
aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr
Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 14:22:30 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nithian Immortals
Daniel Boese wrote:
>
> I was just going through GAZ4: Ierendi, when I noticed mention of a
> Nithian Immortal I don't recall seeing anywhere else - Orisis (not
> Osiris), a hawk-headed, good Immortal. Anybody know anything about him,
> besides what's in GAZ4?
Doubtless whoever wrote Kingdom of Nithia didn't recall Orisis from GAZ4, and
left him out- I wouldn't be at all surprised. Even though there was some
really good info there, I wasn't terribly impressed with that product. It
seemed as if it were written by people unfamiliar with OD&D (there is
mention of someone with 18/? strength in that product, as well as the hit
points, etc. being far from what they could possibly be for some of the
characters.).
Given the similarity of the name "Orisis" to the Eygptian god of the
dead, Osiris, I would wager that this is the deity on whom this immortal
was originally conceived. That being the case, I would probably make
Orisis either a benevolent Entropic (such as Nyx, perhaps- well, she's
somewhat benevolent, compared to the others...), or else an Immortal with
some interest in the dead.
------------------------------
From: Sir George Anonymous <lcdavis@mailbox.syr.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 17:56:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mystara] It's a Girl!!!
To all of our Cyberfriends,
Larry and Patti Davis are proud to announce the birth of their daughter,
Audrey Patricia Davis, born at 9:47am Wednesday, October 16. She weighed
in at 8-1/2 pounds.
Mom and baby are doing fine and resting comfortably. Dad is surviving on
caffeine and prayers. Keep those prayers coming.
I apologize to anyone receiving this message in error. Please excuse the
exuberance of a proud papa.
Later,
Larry Davis
aka Sir George Anonymous
------------------------------
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 22:04:41 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Barimoor & GAZ2
In a message dated 96-10-16 13:00:38 EDT, Alad3@aol.com writes:
<< Umm, since i'm not sure what IIRC means, perhaps i'm unjustifiedly
criticizing you, but Alfheim was founded (with Mealiden being crowned the
first king) in BC 700, 200 years BEFORE the climate changes in Ylaruam. And
i
do believe having read somewhere that it WAS the elves changing of the
weather patterns that desertified Ylaruam. >>
IIRC = "If I recall correctly"
There is a reference in the "Elves of Alfheim" gazetteer that says that
Ilsundal's part in the curse on the ancient Nithians was to divert that
which made the Nithians great to the Elves. While it could be rain that
is referred to, the reference is not completely clear.
------------------------------
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 22:12:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] It's a Girl!!!
Congret ... hope every thing will continue to go well. I guess
we wouldn't see you at the mailing list again for next 20 years,
huh? :)
- --
Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering
Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu
(1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu
(2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept.
Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely
irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur.
------------------------------
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 22:21:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dat Darn Meteor :)
David 'Azure' Leland pontificated:
> magical way to minimize the nuclear winter effect. Perhaps they a)
> discovered a spell to make unique metals in the meteor temporarily
> super-dense, so that the gravity attracted a good proportion of the dust
> that would have flown up into the atmosphere, making it fall back down very
> quickly and locally (creating an interesting terrain in the crater); b)
Now, assuming the spell is not temporary, and the super dense metal is
adamantanium(sp), or some similar metal, and a few people who wonder
through the region found out about this ... pretty soon we will have
a gold/whatever rush. BTW, all you other ideas are great too, thanks.
- --
Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering
Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu
(1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu
(2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept.
Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely
irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur.
------------------------------
From: Patrick <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 03:58:16 +0000
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Barimoor & GAZ2
><< Umm, since i'm not sure what IIRC means, perhaps i'm unjustifiedly
> criticizing you, but Alfheim was founded (with Mealiden being crowned the
> first king) in BC 700, 200 years BEFORE the climate changes in Ylaruam. And
oops.
> i do believe having read somewhere that it WAS the elves changing of the
> weather patterns that desertified Ylaruam. >>
>
>IIRC = "If I recall correctly"
>
>There is a reference in the "Elves of Alfheim" gazetteer that says that
>Ilsundal's part in the curse on the ancient Nithians was to divert that
>which made the Nithians great to the Elves. While it could be rain that
>is referred to, the reference is not completely clear.
Thank you for clarifying that. I found where I read something about this
(Champions of Mystara Designer's Book) and it is simply a few sentences that
says that the climate of Ylaruam is due to the unusually strong influence of
the plane of fire in that region. I don't have the Alfheim gazetteer, but I
suppose that this could be a reference to Ilsundal, from the sphere of
energy. However, this does not fully explain the climate, since a lack of
rain would not raise the temperature in Ylaruam, which should, by it's
location, have a much cooler climate. And what was the climate like in
Nithia before the climate change? I just finally got the Hollow World boxed
set yesterday, so maybe I'll read these answers soon anyway, but I was curious.
Patrick
------------------------------
From: Estlor <estlor@geocities.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 17:33:14 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nithian Immortals
<snip>
I think that the Nithians used to worship Pfflar in a limited sense...I
read that somewhere. But after the embrace of entropy Pfflar had some
sort of a falling-out and looked only to his Hutaakan.
Estlor
------------------------------
From: Estlor <estlor@geocities.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 17:37:40 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Barimoor & GAZ2
<snip>
Earlier some of us concluded that the Nithians (who lived in that reigon
before) are to blame for the climate changes. They began to worship
entropy, the Immortals whiped them out, and in the process they averted
the rivers that flowed into the region. This is what made the reigon a
desert. However, since most information on Nithians was obliterated
forever (with a few Savage Coast exceptions), the Ylari blamed it on the
elves. Which would, of course, explain why the Rules Cyclopedia stated
something to the extent that magic-users and elves were tried and killed
on discovery.
Estlor
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 16:06:56 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mystara] Davania and Arypt
I noticed something interesting the other day while flipping through PC2-
Top Ballista.
Under the entry for Tabi, it mentions at least twice the ruins of
"Katapec" (or something similar) in southern Arypt.
Hmm. From the name, it could be a Nithian city (perhaps Nithians sent
some of their peoples down there, following in the footsteps of the
Milenians), or it could be remnants of an Oltec civilization (Oltec
settlers traveled to Davania- probably long before the Milenians did.)
Just mentioning it as a point of possible interest. :)
------------------------------
From: sean@netidea.com (Sean Nicolson)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 17:07:23 -0700
Subject: Re: [Mystara] It's a Girl!!!
>Congret ... hope every thing will continue to go well. I guess
>we wouldn't see you at the mailing list again for next 20 years,
>huh? :)
>
Don't be a pessimist. In 10 years, she'll want him to DM for her and her
friends. In 15 years, she'll be a fairly respectable player. We haven't lost
a Mystarian, we've gained one!
(I, myself, have gamed with players who weren't even born when their
father first introduced me to D&D; and enjoyed the experiance.)
Sean Nicolson sean@netidea.com
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V1 #268
*****************************
mystara-digest Thursday, 24 October 1996 Volume 01 : Number 269
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: TSRBruce@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:55:58 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nithian Immortals
In a message dated 96-10-17 19:39:17 EDT, Estlor wrote:
<< I think that the Nithians used to worship Pfflar in a limited sense...I
read that somewhere. But after the embrace of entropy Pfflar had some
sort of a falling-out and looked only to his Hutaakan. >>
He looked after the Hutaakan, who managed to do very poorly after some time.
They retreated from the massive gnollish onslaught back to a remote valley,
leaving the hapless Traldar to fend for themselves. Disappointed once by the
Nithians and later by the passivity of the Hutaakans, Pflarr turned his back
on the surface world and concentrated his efforts on the Hollow World. Well
at least for the moment. :)
Bruce Heard
------------------------------
From: kevinaug@ihug.co.nz
Date: 20 Oct 96 11:52:13 +0000
Subject: [Mystara] MYSTNB2
- --Cyberdog-AltBoundary-0000601E
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On MPGN, under Mystara, there is a file called MYSTNB2.WPD. I'm having
trouble trying to translate it so, I was just wondering if anyone
could tell me whats in it.
Thanks very much,
Kevin Finn Augenstein.
- --Cyberdog-AltBoundary-0000601E
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Cyberdog-MixedBoundary-0000601F"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
- --Cyberdog-MixedBoundary-0000601F
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<X-FONTSIZE><PARAM>12</PARAM><FONTFAMILY><PARAM>Palatino</PARAM>On
MPGN, under Mystara, there is a file called MYSTNB2.WPD. I'm having
trouble trying to translate it so, I was just wondering if anyone
could tell me whats in it.
Thanks very much,
Kevin Finn Augenstein.</FONTFAMILY></X-FONTSIZE>
- --Cyberdog-MixedBoundary-0000601F--
- --Cyberdog-AltBoundary-0000601E--
------------------------------
From: Estlor <estlor@geocities.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 21:11:17 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] MYSTNB2
> On MPGN, under Mystara, there is a file called MYSTNB2.WPD. I'm having
> trouble trying to translate it so, I was just wondering if anyone
> could tell me whats in it.
>
> Thanks very much,
>
> Kevin Finn Augenstein.
Alright, I guess I can field this one:
That file is/was a book I wrote before I joined the MML on Mystara.
Some problems occurred with my computer during production, and some
programs do not read it right. It was written in Word Perfect 6.1, and
I tried transforming it into a Word Perfect 5.2 document, but not
everything...took right. Mr. Van Kamp III managed to read the file (so
there was more than a few who could) and put a second file up. Its
something like Mystdoc.zip....it is the same thing as the MYSTNB2.zip
but is in MS Word for Windows 6 formatting.
Estlor
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 17:21:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mystara] Product reviews
I'm putting off playing with the timeline for a while, and am going to
work on compiling a completish Product List. However, since I don't have
all the products out there (yet :) ), I'd appreciate any offers of help -
most importantly, reviews of the various items.
After I get the main books and boxes, I'd like to include the various
magazines that include Mystara-ish stuff - Dragon, Dungeon, Polyhedron,
and any others. I don't recall who posted the magazine list, but I'd like
to get in touch with you..
Here's what I'm thinking of including for each item; can anybody think of
anything I should add?
Product Letter Code & Name: (B1, X7, PC4; Name)
TSR Product Code: (usually 4 digits)
Status: (Out of Print, Recalled, etc)
System: (OD&D, AD&D, AD&D 2nd ed)
Characters: ([# of characters] of levels [1-36])
Year Published:
Credits: (authors, product managers, cover artist, etc)
Cover Price:
Summary: (what the adventure's about)
Review: (personal comments)
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Carsten Gundlach <cgbalor@imada.ou.dk>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 11:39:09 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: [Mystara] mail-list
How do I get off this list ?
------------------------------
From: Jody Duncan <jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 96 11:13:09 EDT
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Product reviews
Daniel Boese writes:
> Here's what I'm thinking of including for each item; can anybody think of
> anything I should add?
>
> Product Letter Code & Name: (B1, X7, PC4; Name)
> TSR Product Code: (usually 4 digits)
> Status: (Out of Print, Recalled, etc)
> System: (OD&D, AD&D, AD&D 2nd ed)
> Characters: ([# of characters] of levels [1-36])
> Year Published:
> Credits: (authors, product managers, cover artist, etc)
> Cover Price:
> Summary: (what the adventure's about)
> Review: (personal comments)
How about places where they can still be found? ( Mail order ect..)
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Just Glad To Be Here Happy To Be Alive!"
Carleton U.
Computer Science, Software
Email addresses: jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca
cq793@freenet.carleton.ca
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 13:09:45 -0400 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Product reviews
> > Here's what I'm thinking of including for each item; can anybody think of
> > anything I should add?
> How about places where they can still be found? ( Mail order ect..)
Well, um, that is..
There's quite a few (/quite/ a few) places out there to purchase out of
print D&D stuff - and I only know of about 0.01% of them. Not to mention
that inventories change, places go out of business, etc..
However, I don't see what's wrong with having /another/ list, seperate
from the actual "Product List", which details as many RPG stores as can be
found - anybody want to take it on?
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Matthew Levy <mlevy@orion.oac.uci.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 11:53:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 8
On Fri, 11 Oct 1996, StarHawk wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Matthew Levy wrote:
>
> > Second problem: I know the Red Steel set says Lupins have been in Renardy
> > for centuries, but it seemed like the general consensus on the list was
> > that the Renardois are emigrants from Nouvelle Averoigne, which means they
> > can't have gotten to the SC until after the arrival of the d'Ambrevilles,
> > which (IIRC) is in the 7th or 8th century, not the 6th ...
> > anybody know the solution to this one?
> > m@2
> >
> >
> Simple, just because they came from Nouvelle Averoigne doesn't mean it was
> called that at the time. Kind of like saying your ancestors (not you
> specifically) came from France when France was still Brittany. If I was
> better at history I'd give years, but I'm not.
>
>
>
Hmm. I still don't see how this helps. The reason for the
lupins to be from Nouvelle Averoigne in the first place was to explain why
they spoke French. Thus it doesn't help for them to have left before the
d'Ambrevilles got there, since they are the ones who introduced French to
the area. Otherwise I suppose we might have Breton Gaelic-speaking
Lupins, which would perhaps fit into Robrenn but not Renardy. Any other
ideas on this?
m@2
------------------------------
From: Matthew Levy <mlevy@orion.oac.uci.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 11:47:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Alfheim War
On Fri, 11 Oct 1996, Andre Cavalcanti Rocha Martins {S wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, 11 Oct 1996, Herve MUSSEAU wrote:
>
> > Well, there is another option. The Darokinians are not warlike, and they
> > try hard to establish diplomatic relations with the SE. If they can
> > figure out that the end of the magical rains means that their fertile
> > land may become dry too, they'll try their best to help the SE in their
> > efforts to make rain happen again in the forest (remember the stuff
> > about the help from the Shyie-Lawr?). If they succeeed, at least
> > partially, the SE should be grateful and maybe more open to strangers
> > and become viable (ie, quite open-minded) neighbors.
> > BTW, the mere fact that SE want the rain back might lead the
> > nature-loving races and Immortals realize that they didn't really intend
> > to do what they did... and that they're maybe not that evil after all.
>
> Here we go again :) I agree the darokinianians will try the diplomatic
> ways before anything more warlike. They might even succeed if the war
> depended only on them. But it doesn't, not the way I am proposing it.
>
> But I have to disagree about the nature-loving races and Immortals. From
> what they know, the SE wanted Alfheim so much, they didn't care about
> destroying the forest in order to conquest it. Now it is theirs and they
> are looking for help to rebuild the forest. Just imagine the same
> situation in our own world, about one decade ago. Suppose you are a
> north-american (some of you won't have to supose) ten years ago, when
> Russia was still a comunist country. You grew up hearing tales of how the
> russians are bad, they eat little children in their breakfast and the
> like. Then USA starts going radioactive and all americans are forced to
> leave. Soviet troops move in immediatelly after the americans departure
> and ask for help to clean the country, claiming they are not responsible
> for the mess, they were only trying to neutralize american nuclear
> arsenal, but something went wrong unexpectedly. Would you believe in them
> or would you think they are more twisted than you thought before?
> Of course, Mexico and Canada (Darokin) would be willing to help, since
> they have no option. But that's all.
>
> Andre Martins
>
>
>
That's an interesting analogy, but I have an even better counterexample:
instead of going back ten years, let's go back a few hundred. Imagine
you are native american who sees the coming of european settlers to his
homeland. These settlers chop down the forests, enslave the natives *and*
import more slaves from another continent, force the natives to convert to
a new religion, spread disease which decimates native populations, kill
off animal and plant species, make war on any natives who do not
acquiesce, and finally overpopulate every square inch of land available,
turning it into massive polluted cities and giant agribusiness farms.
All along, these people seem to think they are doing nothing wrong, and in
fact often believe they are improving things all around them.
then a few of these relative newcomers start to talk about something
called "ecology", start wanting to restore respect for the continent and
its native people and wildlife, start even borrowing elements of native
religions as they become disenchanted with their own religion (or lack of
it). You, the descendant of native tribes that go back thousands of
years, can either reject these "wannabes" and insist that all white people
are innately hopeless and evil, or you can try to teach them and show
them the wisdom of your own beliefs and cultural traditions. There are
undoubtedly native americans who fit into the first category, but i also
know many who fit into the second.
Anyway, enough with the analogy ... in the case of Mystara it would seem
that those who are concerned with the balance of nature might be willing
to help the shadow elves if they actually seem willing to try to put
things right, even as they might maintain a healthy distate for the
foolishness and penchant for destruction the SE have shown.
that's my two bits on the issue.
m@2
------------------------------
From: David Keyser <davidk@Synopsys.COM>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 12:40:49 -0700
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Product reviews
> From owner-mystara-l@lists.io.com Mon Oct 21 12:34:52 1996
> Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 13:09:45 -0400 (EST)
> From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
> To: mystara-l@io.com
> Subject: Re: [Mystara] Product reviews
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type> : > TEXT/PLAIN> ; > charset=US-ASCII>
> Sender: owner-mystara-l@io.com
> Reply-To: mystara-l@io.com
> Content-Length: 665
>
> > > Here's what I'm thinking of including for each item; can anybody think of
> > > anything I should add?
>
> > How about places where they can still be found? ( Mail order ect..)
>
> Well, um, that is..
> There's quite a few (/quite/ a few) places out there to purchase out of
> print D&D stuff - and I only know of about 0.01% of them. Not to mention
> that inventories change, places go out of business, etc..
> However, I don't see what's wrong with having /another/ list, seperate
> from the actual "Product List", which details as many RPG stores as can be
> found - anybody want to take it on?
>
> --
> Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
>
Someone already does this- check out
http://acm.org/~papay/RPG_Sources.html
Dave Keyser
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 14:43:16 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 8
On Mon, 21 Oct 1996, Matthew Levy wrote:
> Hmm. I still don't see how this helps. The reason for the
> lupins to be from Nouvelle Averoigne in the first place was to explain why
> they spoke French. Thus it doesn't help for them to have left before the
> d'Ambrevilles got there, since they are the ones who introduced French to
> the area. Otherwise I suppose we might have Breton Gaelic-speaking
> Lupins, which would perhaps fit into Robrenn but not Renardy. Any other
> ideas on this?
I don't know if I can help you here (or that my suggestion will be much
liked, but...) but I have been working on a comprehensive timeline for
Glantri this past week- it has to do with something else I'm working on,
and I got a little carried away. Comprehensive as in, everything ever
published on Glantri (birthdates even).
The Ambers arrived in Glantri in 728 AC, according to PC4. They brought
with them the French culture; before this, there was presumably no French
culture there. This does present a problem for your Renardois, as they
apparently left before the Amber arrival (I don't know your source, but I
take it from your comments that this is the case.)
My suggestion would be this- I have noticed a number of inconsistencies
in the timelines (one is Jaggar's age- GAZ3 says his mother is 65 in
1000AC, but everything else tells us Jaggar was born in 945 AC- she would
have been ten when she had him- sure, this is fantasy, but come on...)
In X2- Castle Amber, it is said that Etienne is the seventh prince in the
family since their arrival on Mystara. You figure each lived maybe 80
years or so, average (especially since that nasty 40 years war probably
killed one or two prematurely)- and you can assume that the Nouvelle
Averoignians arrived far earlier than 728 AC in Glantri, yet sometime
after 495 AC, which is when the events in Dragonking of Mystara take
place (I figure they'd have mentioned the French if they were present).
Basically, the only way as I see it to reconcile the two discrepancies is
by changing the timeline. Not a very appealing answer, especially since
general TSR policy is that the most recent information is the most
canonical, but my own feeling is that sometimes people screw up, don't do
enough research, and that therefore you can't just solve things by
saying, whatever is most current is best.
(For my own part, I put the most credence in GAZ3. :)
------------------------------
From: Shelby Michlin <shelby7@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 96 20:26:36 -0500
Subject: [Mystara] Glantri and Timelines
- -- [ From: Shelby Michlin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
Hello all,
> From: Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One \ Internet: (jsmill@imap1.asu.edu)
> To: Post to Mystara-L \ Internet: (mystara-l@io.com)
> Subject: Re: [Mystara] Timeline v1.2 part 8
> I don't know if I can help you here (or that my suggestion will be much
liked,
> but...) but I have been working on a comprehensive timeline for Glantri
this
> past week- it has to do with something else I'm working on, and I got a
little
> carried away. Comprehensive as in, everything ever published on Glantri
> (birthdates even).
Hey, you're gonna post this, right? Please oh please?
> (For my own part, I put the most credence in GAZ3. :)
Me, too.
Thanks,
Shelby
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 15:03:36 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Glantri and Timelines
On Mon, 21 Oct 1996, Shelby Michlin wrote:
> > Comprehensive as in, everything ever published on Glantri
> > (birthdates even).
>
> Hey, you're gonna post this, right? Please oh please?
Hmm. I don't know. It's _incredibly_ long right now, and I still haven't
finished it to my satisfaction. I may not post it directly to the list,
unless there's a high demand, but I would be willing to split it up and
email it to interested parties when it's complete. :)
------------------------------
From: jduke@zebra.net (Joseph Duke)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 21:55:46 -0500
Subject: [Mystara] Out o' Print stuff (kinda long)
Hey all,
I recently saw the request for someone to keep a list of what out o
print sutff could be found where and another site of places that may
have what you want. Well that list was VERY incomplete (no offense of
course) the BESTEST place to find out o print stuff is at:
http://www.lswgames.com
tell e'm Joe sent you!!!
I DO NOT work for them, I just know the guys. They have a warehouse of
stuff you would not believe. They have ORIGINAL FIEND FOLIOS still in
shrink wrap un opened to this day from the original day a shipping!!!
They have ALL the Gazeteers (except #5, how odd) and large boatload of
modules all still shirnk wrapped. I have been to this place and spent 6
hours on 1 ailse finding stuff which has been out o print since
1989....it is worth the time to ask them if they have somehting you
need.
anyway...
Give them a holler, tell 'em I sent you.
Joe Duke
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 16:22:37 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mystara] Mystaran Magic
I just finished reading the first book in the Coldfire trilogy by C.S.
Friedman last night. Great book- for those of you who haven't read it, I
highly recommend it.
For those of you who have- have you ever thought about using the system
of 'magic' presented in the book to explain how magic works on Mystara?
The manipulation of Fae (energies of the earth, etc.)? I think it could
provide a very interesting interpretation (and as someone who is
constantly looking for ways to justify the whole 'magic being drained
from Mystara' thing, it works pretty well for me).
Just think- the Merchant-Princes of Minrothad have an affinity for tidal
fae; necromancers tend towards Dark Fae; the Honor Island and Flaemish
sorcerors use Fire Fae; there could even be Astral, Ethereal, Air, etc. Fae.
I'm still reading the series, so I don't yet know what
surprises/revelations await (please no unannounced spoilers! ;) , but I
am thinking that the Adepts are similar in ways to immortals- not sure
where to reconcile their existence yet.
Also, one of the characters in the book is one of the best Undead
sorceror depictions I've seen in a long time. I may use him as my model
for Prince Morphail in the future. :)
------------------------------
From: Andre Cavalcanti Rocha Martins {S <acrmarti@fma1.if.usp.br>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 03:01:10 -0200 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Alfheim War
On Mon, 21 Oct 1996, Matthew Levy wrote:
> That's an interesting analogy, but I have an even better counterexample:
> instead of going back ten years, let's go back a few hundred. Imagine
> you are native american who sees the coming of european settlers to his
> homeland. These settlers chop down the forests, enslave the natives *and*
> import more slaves from another continent, force the natives to convert to
> a new religion, spread disease which decimates native populations, kill
> off animal and plant species, make war on any natives who do not
> acquiesce, and finally overpopulate every square inch of land available,
> turning it into massive polluted cities and giant agribusiness farms.
> All along, these people seem to think they are doing nothing wrong, and in
> fact often believe they are improving things all around them.
>
> then a few of these relative newcomers start to talk about something
> called "ecology", start wanting to restore respect for the continent and
> its native people and wildlife, start even borrowing elements of native
> religions as they become disenchanted with their own religion (or lack of
> it). You, the descendant of native tribes that go back thousands of
> years, can either reject these "wannabes" and insist that all white people
> are innately hopeless and evil, or you can try to teach them and show
> them the wisdom of your own beliefs and cultural traditions. There are
> undoubtedly native americans who fit into the first category, but i also
> know many who fit into the second.
>
> Anyway, enough with the analogy ... in the case of Mystara it would seem
> that those who are concerned with the balance of nature might be willing
> to help the shadow elves if they actually seem willing to try to put
> things right, even as they might maintain a healthy distate for the
> foolishness and penchant for destruction the SE have shown.
Good example, but I don't agree with you. My point is that a hundred years
have not passed since the invasion. A few generations later, people might
and probably will, feel exactly the way you described. If the SE manage to
keep themselves in Canolbarth, cooperation should start after everyone
expelled from the forest is dead, if the SE keep talking about their
mistake on cursing the forest. But not now. We are (gladly) used to live
in a world where several people try to understand their differences and
understand each other. Most of us have never seen a real war or lost a
relative in one. A fantasy setting is different, being more like the
middle ages. There is not much tolerance on it.
The reason I have always believed this war is unstopable is that the AE
have been told since they are children about the evilness of their
underground relatives. The most recent events would only confirm this
view. Besides, two of their most sacred relics are in Canolbarth. That
means elfish crusades. I would suggest you going to a few places where
people still hate each other just for been born in a different group and
trying to convince them their enemies (palestines, jews, arabs, bosnians,
you name it) are not bad guys, just people trying to live their lives. But
please don't or you'll probably get yourself hurt (in the other hand, you
might get a peace Nobel prize if you succeeed:)
So we have AE elves in Darokin, Wendar and Karameikos, all telling
everybody these foul creatures must be stopped. The looks of the forest
confirm what they are saying. The SE must be evil and corrupt. Soon there
will be people and rulers who believe war is the only way. They shouldn't,
helping the SE to save Canolbarth would be the best solution, certainly,
but it seems unrealistic to me.
Andre Martins
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V1 #269
*****************************
mystara-digest Thursday, 24 October 1996 Volume 01 : Number 270
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Gabriele Ferri <fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 14:14:40 +-100
Subject: [Mystara] Karameikan names
Hi, Mystarans
I was just looking for some good Karameikan name for an evil NPC. I ask =
this because I've ran out of imagination and my NPC's names are =
repeating ('Hello, my name is Yuri' 'Hey, we've already met him!' 'No, =
that's another...').
thanks
Gabriele Ferri - fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it
------------------------------
From: Jody Duncan <jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 96 11:37:45 EDT
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Karameikan names
Gabriele Ferri writes:
>
> Hi, Mystarans
>
> I was just looking for some good Karameikan name for an evil NPC. I ask =
> this because I've ran out of imagination and my NPC's names are =
> repeating ('Hello, my name is Yuri' 'Hey, we've already met him!' 'No, =
> that's another...').
Of what ancestry? Traladaran or Thyatian? Traladaran names are
very russian or ukranian sounding, where as Thyatian names tend to sound
greek or roman...
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Just Glad To Be Here Happy To Be Alive!"
Carleton U.
Computer Science, Software
Email addresses: jduncan2@chat.carleton.ca
cq793@freenet.carleton.ca
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 13:25:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mystara] When was the DA series?
> > > > [4000 BC] What about early Thonia from DAx?
> > > I've never seen any actual references to Thonia outside of the DA
> > > series. And since I'm missing DA1, I don't know when precisely the
> > > PCs go back to, and thus can't place it on the timeline properly.
> > The PCs go back just after Baron Uther has declared himself King
> > Uther. So I guess that should be 4000, although I think they gave it a
> > 3000 in DA1 (but it's some time since I read it so...)
> I'll keep my eye out for DA1 (as well as everything else I'm missing :)
> ). I'll ask on the list, though, if anybody knows for sure..
So, folks, does anybody recall just how far back the PCs go in the DA
series to help Blackmoor start out?
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 13:14:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mystara] Re: Timeline v1.2 part 10
> >> >> > 1150 AC: The deaths of High King Maramet of Vestland
> >> >> >and his sole heir throw the nation into a political turmoil.
> >> >> >The Sorona, the enchanted crown of Vestland, is sought by
> >> >> >various factions hoping to claim the throne.
> >> >> I thought that this event is now officially in the past. Don't the
> >>PWA's say
> >> >> that the current King of Vestland, Harald Gudmundson I think it is, was
> >> >> King Maramets' heir in the module X13, I can't remember what his name was.
> >> >> What is the "official-net-word" on this then?
> Has a verdict been reached on this yet?
Well, not in particular.. Perhaps the 1150 date is now also an "alternate
future", similar to the 1200 AC Great War?
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 13:22:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mystara] Canon vs not-canon?
I'm sure I'm opening up a nasty kettle of worms here, but I'm hoping we
can achieve a consensus of sorts... Or at least a response from Bruce or
Ann. :)
What exactly is canon (that is, "official" information that overrides any
contradicting information elsewhere) for Mystara?
The Karameikos and Glantri boxed sets, the Red Steel boxes, the
Gazeteers, the Almanacs, the Princess Ark logs, the Hollow World,
Champions of Mystara, and Wrath of the Immortals boxes all seem to be
"official". (And as far as I recall, TSR uses the policy that later
products are correct when they contradict earlier products.)
But what about the 3 AD&D2 adventures? The many, many D&D adventures? The
various rulebooks that have data on the Known World? The Penhaligon
novels? The Dragonking novels, the First Quest novels, "Black Knight of
Karameikos", "The Black Vessel"? The "net-supplements" on MPGN and AOL?
Clark Ashton Smith's books on Laterre? Anything I'm not mentioning here?
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: StarHawk <starhawk@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 16:09:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] When was the DA series?
On Thu, 24 Oct 1996, Daniel Boese wrote:
> > > > > [4000 BC] What about early Thonia from DAx?
> > > > I've never seen any actual references to Thonia outside of the DA
> > > > series. And since I'm missing DA1, I don't know when precisely the
> > > > PCs go back to, and thus can't place it on the timeline properly.
> > > The PCs go back just after Baron Uther has declared himself King
> > > Uther. So I guess that should be 4000, although I think they gave it a
> > > 3000 in DA1 (but it's some time since I read it so...)
> > I'll keep my eye out for DA1 (as well as everything else I'm missing :)
> > ). I'll ask on the list, though, if anybody knows for sure..
> So, folks, does anybody recall just how far back the PCs go in the DA
> series to help Blackmoor start out?
According to DA1 the Blackmoor Comeback Inn exists 4000 years before
campaign time (or 3000 BC).
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 16:29:14 -0400 (EST)
Subject: [Mystara] Hule, v1.0
I had a spare two hours today, so compiled all the data on Hule that I
know of. If anybody has any other references, please forward them to me..
Or if you see any typos, or have any suggestions on how to arrange this
better. :)
- -----8<-----
The Hule Gazetteer (1013 AC)
v1.0
Hule (Hagiarchy of)
Location: Continent of Brun, northwest of the Great Waste.
Area: 256,000 sq. mi.
Population: 1,000,000. Hule's population is a mosaic of cultures that
have been assimilated into the Hulean way of life. Roughly 65% are human;
30% are humanoids (primarily bugbears, gnolls, kobolds, ogres, and orcs);
and 5% are demihumans (dwarves, elves, gnomes, and halflings).
Languages: Hulean (official), plus dialects of many cultures.
Government Type: Hagiarchy (rule by holy men).
Coinage: Lira (gp), kuru (sp), piastre (cp), gems
Industries: Agriculture, textiles (fine cloth, wools, etc.),
glassworks, trade, conquest.
Imports: Common metals, fish, salt, spices, silk, dye, tobacco.
Imports as much Red Steel as possible.
Exports: Grains, vegetables, meat, wood, textiles, glassware, gems
Merchants from both Sind and Yavdlom occasionally trade with Hule, but
not often. The Black Mountains provide a formidable obstacle to trade
across the Great Waste and Yavdlom seers caution their people against
associating with Hule's ruling "Holy Men."
Taxes: There are two major taxes in Hule: a Net Worth Tax of 5%
assessed every two years and an annual Tithe to the Holy Men of Hule (10%
of yearly income). Hule's major roads have toll gates every 24 miles,
charging 1 cp per person and 2 cp per large animal. Tax evasion is
punishable by compulsory service to the Holy Men in Darkwood.
Geography: Hule, also known as Great Hule and the Sanctified Land, is
a large, well-populated nation northwest of the Black Mountains, and
north of the Savage Coast's city-states and Savage Baronies. It
stretches from the edge of the Black Mountains to the Risilvar
Escarpment in the south and the Dravish Steppes in the west. Its southern
border includes a tiny slice of coastline, just north of Slagovich,
giving the nation access to sea trade. Much of Hule consists of low,
rolling hills blanketed by farms and pastures. The farmland is dotted
with small and simple villages and farming communities. There are also
several larger towns, bustling centers of trade.
Notable Sites: Western Hule encompasses roughly half of Niwhelm, the
Dark Wood - a great oak forest still mostly primeval. The wood contains
Lake Tros, also known as the Lake of the Deeps, a large (4,500 sq. mi.)
and seemingly bottomless freshwater lake.
Greatrealm, known to some as the Temple of Death, the Master of Hule's
capital city, is a huge temple complex lying on the shore of Lake Tros.
It lies away from the cities, and people seldom visit it. From here the
Master watches over his country and the progress of any wars in
progress. His desires are made known to the people by the Diviners or
other messengers.
Flora and Fauna: Hule's civilized lands are home to an odd mix of
humans, demihumans, and humanoids, with humans prevailing by only a
small margin. The nation's borders encompass many wilderness areas as
well, including some foothills of the Black Mountains. Nearly every
creature native to the continent of Brun can be found in Hule.
Society: Hule is a hagiarchy, a government run by "holy men" and
clergy. Only humans are active in the goverment, although the non-humans
may act as advisors to a high official. The rulers are people of
greater-than-normal religious faith, from all walks of life. They lead
lives that are the supreme examples of their religious teachings. A
person does not have to be a cleric to be powerful in the government;
any person who is shown to be specially favored by Bozdogan may rule.
The people of Hule are divided into many classes - holy men, diviners,
hermits, prophets, clergy, and commoners - listed in order of most
important to least important.
Holy Men are the rulers, individuals who - if not actually clergy - have
been somehow touched by the Immortals. The Holy Men make up most of the
bureaucracy and all of the nation's administration. There are an
inordinate number of thieves among the Holy Men, too. Holy Men are
especially favored of Bozdogan, and they occupy official positions in
Hule's ruling class. Unmistakable signs help determine who is favored,
such as being incapable of ever uttering the words "yes" and "no,"
"black" and "white," or "is" and "have," or the inability to use the
letter "e" or numbers of any kind, etc.
Diviners are similar to police. They travel the country freely, often in
disguise. When not disguised, they wear uniforms that consist of a red
robe and black mask, a mace, and carry a crystal amulet. These officials
have two imprtant duties. First, they search for criminals. Criminals
include not only thieves and murderers, but also those who have "wrong
thoughts." Wrong thoughts are considered to be those against the state
religion or those who cast doubt on the "miracles" of the holy men. All
clerics who do not belong to the state religion are "wrong thinkers".
All people who follow other Immortals, or no Immortal are "wrong
thinkers." All magic-users are "wrong thinkers," except those working for
the Diviners or the clergy. The second duty of the Diviner is to find
worthy candidates for government service. If they find a particularly
holy person, they bring him before the leaders of Hule for testing.
Because the Diviners are both dangerous and rewarding, the common people
both fear and respect them greatly.
Hermits are those people who claim to have had a vision from Bozdogan,
instructing them to live alone in the wilderness. Hermits may live under
all manner of conditions - sleeping on thorn beds, living with beasts,
or eating now meat. As a custom, they do not shave or cut their hair.
Peasants sometimes seek out hermits for guidance.
Prophets travel the countryside, and while not government officials, are
recognized for their great wisdom and judgment. They act as judges in
important cases that the local authorities cannot solve, and though they
have no real power, their decisions are almost always accepted. However,
like the common people, they can be arrested or rewarded by the
Diviners. As a custom of the land, all prophets travel with a dog and a
young boy who carries a lamp.
Clerics operate the local temples and shrines. It is their duty to guide
and instruct the people. They try to bring out the "holiness" in each
person, so they might prepare some fore testing by the Diviners. All
clergy have normal clerical abilities as regards spells and fighting.
They too can be arrested or rewarded by the Diviners.
Commoners are just that, farmers, soldiers, merchants, or crafters. Most
follow the state religion and lead relatively peaceful lives - until
called to war - and strive towards greater "holiness." Almost all are
Chaotic alignment. A smaller number of people are Neutral, and an even
smaller number are Lawful. These people are normally laborers, servants,
or foreign traders. They are looked down upon, but are considered
necessary. A few, more vocal than the rest, are treated as outlaws or
traitors by the society. These include clerics of other religions, most
magic-users, and simple bandits.
The non-humans do not fit into this class system. The humanoid tribes
living within Hule's borders are nominally independent, although they
find it profitable and convenient to ally themselves with the Master of
Hule, the highest of the holy men. All the humanoid groups seem to live
and work together to some degree, although they often feud and raid one
another.
The leader of Hule is a mysterious individual known only as the Master;
the absolute dictator of the land. The Master leads Hule's holy men in
preaching an unusual philosophy of lies and deceit. They honor many
Immortals, though the Immortal Bozdogan (Loki, Prince of Deceit), whose
symbol is a mechanical puzzle-cube, is foremost among them. Loki has
manipulated the people of Hule to create a bureaucracy of liars and
thieves. Political intrigue is rampant in Hule, and to unite the nation,
the Master sometimes finds it necessary to create an outside conflict.
This has led to Hule's participation in wars with all its neighbors,
including the city-states and the Savage Baronies of the Savage Coast.
The true goal of the Holy Men is to acquire for Bozdogan (or his
Immortal companions) the greatest number of followers. That is done
through skillful deceit, which is a holy act in itself. Bozdogan is
believed to have found a way to nourish himself from his followers'
trickery. Every time someone deludes someone else, Bozdogan gains some
sort of arcane power. The greater the number of people involved and the
subtler the duplicity, the more "food" for Bozdogan. Petty lies or
blatant frauds are worthless in this respect and could cause unrest
among the people; such are frowned upon by the Holy Men.
The Holy Men maintain civil order and the "orthdoxy of thoughts,"
providing enlightened rulership of the land through deceit. In Hule,
lies area holy thing, and certain types of untruths constitute ritual
acts in the Bozdogan philosophy. To qualify for holiness, lies must
ultimately perform at least one of the following fuctions: Bring new
followers to adopt the ways of Bozdogan; Uphold and further the
expansion of the Great Hule; Uphold and further the goals of the Holy
Men; Bring the downfall of foreigners, infidels, or "wrong thinkers"; or
Acquire wealth in the name of the Temple of Hule, usually by trickery,
theft, extortion, and so forth.
According to a Hulean lawyers' manual, if someone can prove that
certain lies were perpetrated for one of the reasons given above, any
kind of misrepresentation, libel, or deceit becomes perfectly legal and
even praised. Those who think differently are "wrong thinkers" and are
sent to the temple to learn the error of their ways.
Of course, it is wise not to lie inconsiderately; a lie is a
double-edge weapon. It is ill advised to lie to Holy Men, and among Holy
Men it is heretical to lie to a superior - which explains why the Hulean
ruling class is so rigidly classified in a complex, extremely detailed
hierarchy.
Grand deceit of the more subtle and daring kind, especially involving a
great number of unsuspecting people, is what truly makes the stuff of
the legendary Hulean heroes, such as Hosadus, mentioned hereafter. The
best deception remains the one where the victim is ultimately content
and largely oblivious.
Customs: In most ways, the people of Hule are like all others. They
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work for a living, eat, sleep, and have entertainments like all other
people.
Religious services are held every night in Hule, and commoners usually
attend these twice a week.
Once a week, local clerics lead processions through the town or village,
searching for signs of local "miracles" - events beyond the power of all
known magic. These processions are usually small celebrations that
involve drinking, dancing and music. If a "miracle" is found, a court is
held to determine the truth of the "miracle."
All animals, except dangerous ones, are treated with respect. The
peasants are never sure when an animal might be a holy man in a
miraculous disguise.
"Wrong thinkers" can be sentenced to "instruction." Instruction means
the person is given to someone to be trained in the right ways of
thought. Such training is normally hard labor. Any person convicted of a
crime other than "wrong thinking" can be declared innocent if he can
show that his actions were directed by Bozdogan. Likewise, any person
can be declared guilty or innocent if the judge has a vision from
Bozdogan.
Evil humanoids are treated with care and respect, out of fear. The
peasants never know when a tribe might make a raid and do not want to
provoke the humanoids.
Demihumans (dwarves, elves, gnomes and halflings) are very rare and are
objects of curiosity to the humans of Hule. The evil humanoids will
instantly dislike them, of course.
History: Much of Hule's history is shrouded in mystery. According to
the teachings of the holy men, Hule was founded by human followers of
the Immortal Bozdogan sometime before 1500 BC. Bozdogan taught them all
they needed to know to fulfill their destiny - to spread Hule's
philosophy and prosperity throughout the world. Hule has occasionally
shrunk as a result of invasions or wars, but its slow expansion has
mostly remained unchecked. Hule's borders have slowly expanded, as the
holy men (assisted by Hule's warriors) have helped neighboring cultures
join Hule and become assimilated to the Hulean way of life, forming a
mosaic of microcultures. Only the barbarians to the north resisted.
For centuries, the people of Hule prospered, expanding their borders in
every direction but north. In 1271 BC, a great goblin horde, the
Wolf-Riders lead by the bloody Wogar, drove through Hule. They ravaged
Central Hule, slaughtering many people and enslaving others - including
a young holy man named Hosadus. Late one evening, Hosadus accidentally
overheard an old goblin shaman mention the Blue Knife, an ancient relic
the goblins had been after for centuries. The quest for this object had
brought them to Hule.
Hosadus walked up to Wogar himself and declared the Immortals had sent
them to him, for he, he said, knew of the Blue Knife's location. He
/animated/ a simple sword enchanted with /continual light/, then had it
hover in the dark over his own hand as a "omen" of the Immortals. That
feat impressed the goblins beyond all hope of their realizing his
trickery.
Hosadus said the Blue Knife lay beyond the Black Mountains to the east,
then beyond the Great Waste. There, they should seek the holy relic. Two
thirds of the horde moved on, spurred by the unexpected revelation,
while the remainder stayed in Hule as followers of Hosadus. Since then,
descendants of Wogar became the mainstay of Hosadus' Honor Guard. Their
symbol is a blue dagger pointing down over a sable background.
Other hmanoids settled in Hule over the centuries. At times, friction
between Hule's human and nonhuman populations led to aggression, but for
the most part there was peace - except to the north, where the barbarian
hordes remained a continual threat.
Around AC 600, the northern barbarians united into a tremendous army
that nearly overran Hule. With city after city falling, Bozdogan
revealed that he had reincarnated Hosadus. The legendary hero combined
warfare with trickery and deceit, and drove the barbarian hordes from
Hule. He founded a fortified temple as huge as a city to serve as his
capital in Darkwood. Since Hosadus's return, Hule has managed to regain
all the territory it lost in the barbarian assault, and has slowly
continued to expand its borders in all directions but north.
Most recently, the Master of Hule (believed by some to be Hosadus
himself) sent his minions across the Great Waste to conquer the eastern
lands. He gained control of Sind in AC 1005. From there, his humanoids,
janissaries (Hulean cavalry), and Desert Nomads drove into Darokin.
Armies from Darokin, Karameikos, and the Five Shires managed to drive
the Desert Nomads out in AC 1006, but the Master's forces continue to
occupy Sind.
Hule is currently at peace with the nations of the Savage Coast,
recovering from the last set of wars. Huleans still plot and spy,
however, and minor events related to Hule occur all the time, especially
in the city-states and Savage Baronies.
The Master is currently very much in control of Hule. Much of his
armies rely on humanoid tribes, particularly goblins, though a vast
corps of dervishes defend the many city-temples. Among these dervishes
are a number of elite troops armed with red steel scimitars. These
dervishes have regularly repulsed barbarian incursions from the north,
thanks mostly to their red steel equipment.
The people of Hule view the brutal and bloodthirsty northern hordes as
a great peril and have justifiably feared them throughout their history.
Hulean literature depicts barbarians as faithless, ignorant brutes
incapable of understanding and adopting the subtle ways of Hule. It
would be safe to presume these barbarians nourish a particular hatred
for the bizarre practice of Holy Deceit that clashes with their simple,
straightforward customs. For them, Hulean-bashing is both a useful and
praised activity.
Sources: module X5, Temple of Death; Poor Wizard's Almanac III; The
Voyage of the Princess Ark part 20 (Dragon #173); Red Steel box;
Champions of Mystara box.
- ----->8-----
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 15:22:04 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Karameikan names
On Thu, 24 Oct 1996, Gabriele Ferri wrote:
> I was just looking for some good Karameikan name for an evil NPC. I ask
> this because I've ran out of imagination and my NPC's names are
> repeating ('Hello, my name is Yuri' 'Hey, we've already met him!' 'No,
> that's another...').
Alas, poor Yuri. I knew him, too, Horatio.
I've had the same problem with some of my players in the past- except
they never seemed to remember any of my NPCs names, except those in the
immediate party. It got so bad, that I even forgot one of their names, so
we were constantly renaming the poor guy- "Yes, you're in the middle of
tracking down the Rahib and his prisoner, Sergei." "Who's that?" "Oh, I
meant, Yanosh." "Who?" "Yuri?" "Oh, YURI!"
One of their earliest party members was an NPC named Yuri who died about
10 minutes into their first adventure. To this day, I'm the only one who
remembers the poor guy.
Anyway, any Eastern European names are good- Yuri, Ivan, Boris, Natasha,
Igor, Stekl (I don't even know if that's a name, but I like the sound of
it).
Some others can be found in other products: Morphail Gorevitch-Woszlany
is a particularly appealing one (kudos to Bruce Heard.)
Beaumarys-Moorkroft is possibly a Traladaran/Averoigne mix.
Some good places to look are GAZ1, GAZ3, the Hollow World boxed set(under
Traladara)- those are the main ones I recall offhand.
------------------------------
From: Melik <darwin@nwinfo.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 17:24:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mystara] major de-lurk, angels, MOrient
I just moved to Moxee, WA from Grants Pass, OR, and finally got reconnected.
By the way, is anyone out there around the city of Yakima, OR? I can find
almost no one here to play D&D with. <:((((((((((
My Mystara stuff is after this if you *really* want to skip this hopefully
interesting stuff:
I'll tell you a little about myself, because that's what everyone did when
this list started. I didn't know that because I wasn't on then, but I'm
back on now. I turned 18 years old over a month ago and have been playing
RPG's for over 33% of my life (since I was 12 if you really don't know), and
with Mystara for 4 years. I'm likely a hippie (I use that word as *not* a
drug-user, but having a certain sort of beliefs.)
I've been an artist for over twice as long as I've been playing RPG's, at
school since art has been offered, and I'm a fairly decent one I guess. Of
course, my favorite style is fantasy, and I'm inspired by Cam Kennedy(He
illustrated some *outstanding* Star Wars comics. I don't like most comics
now, and if you really like art - check his work out, it's unique). I like
Lloyd Alexander's chronicles of Prydain (*maybe* for somewhat younger
readers, but it's up there with Tolkien and Lewis, personally I think it's
better in some respects.)
I'm a computer programmer (Farthest I've learned is BASIC sadly, because at
this *infernal* new school they won't teach PASCAL.), and I'm making a
roguelike game (now I'm going to have wait until I can learn PASCAL and use
pointers - aargh!) and a module (music composed on a computer program in
case you don't know) programmer. I've almost finished my first mod, "Raze
the Machine", a metallic, hardcore one. If anyone's interested in it, I'll
maybe send it when I'm done - just ask. As you can probably guess, I like
Metallica, etc., Nirvana, the Doors and other 60s & 70s stuff.
I suppose that's enough of this for now, to the Mystara stuff!
When I got back on the list I noticed that there are no articles on the
Oriental setting we were all collaborating on a while back. Why the ****
not? Someone was sort of keeping track of stuff, we had *tons* of useful
info posted already, and we were about ready to vote on where the different
countries were I believe. Then I got off. There were many people who said
what they would do (as did I), and someone was keeping track of this too. I
really liked this project and think we got too far into it to just let it
slide (if that's what did happen)! So could someone please tell me what's
going on with this?
A looong time ago someone asked me about different types of angels we could
use from Earth religions to oppose the demons/fiends of Mystara. Titans and
other exalted creatures just don't seem appropriate, and there aren't enough
in AD&D (I'm talking about 1st edition here.). I finally got this great
book, "A Dictionary of Angels". So here's the stuff:
The Orders of the Celestial Hierarchy (pseudo-Dionysian scheme)
1. Seraphim - love, light, and fire - 4 faces and 6 wings, use swords
2. Cherubim - light, glory, keepers of celestial records - 4 lion or human
faces with many eyes, 4 or 6 wings, lion, bull, eagle, etc. bodies (I
always thought they were babylike but - maybe not)
3. Thrones - justice bringers, many eyes - You might find them fighting
fiends more because they bring justice, or maybe they just do this to
mortals on the Prime plane.
4. Dominations - regulators of angels duties, "aspire to true lordship",
majestic, carry emblems of authority like sceptres and orbs
5. Virtues - miracle workers, bestowers of grace and valor, make
preparations for events
6. Powers - see to it that order is imposed on the "heavanly pathways"
(perhaps not only routes to the upper planes, but in them), stop efforts of
demons who would overthrow the world, preside over them(seems like you'd
find these ones fighting the fiends the most)
7. Archangels - "minister and make propitation to the Lord for the sins of
ignorance and of the righteous" I've looked up the words and thought about
this, but I can't come up with a definition that I trust. Can anyone else
interpret this better? They are also messengers bearing divine decrees.
Note that the religions that have Archangels are monotheistic, so you could
have them only serve the Ruler of all Reality, or every or some of the
immortals could have their service. Maybe one per rank they earn would be
good. The quote seems to me that they would serve immortals that deal with
the dead, but others could have them too to discuss their followers and bear
decrees.
8. Principalities watch over the leaders of mortals "and presumably inspire
them to make the right decisions"
9. Angels - couriers, messengers, winged (not much info. on plain angels
would you believe? This info might be for all of them.)
There are other sources - St. Ambrose, St. Jerome, Gregory the Great,
Constitutions of the Apostles, Isidore of Seville, Moses Maimonides, The
Zohar, Maseket Azilut, John of Damascus, Berith Menucha, Dante (he writes
good epics, with better maps of the lower planes than the Manual of the
Planes), and The Magus by Barret. I haven't heard of most of these people,
does anyone else know which are "canon" for whatever religions (I'm not that
much of a religious person so I don't know)?
There are many angel patrons for things, like the immortals; emotions,
ideas, life forms, places, artifacts, think of anything and there's probably
an angel for it - even bad or neutral sorts of stuff (Maybe angels could
serve the appropriate immortal patron - and the more things the immortal is
a patron of - the more angels they get.).
These beings can take incorporeal form, and manifestation (anyone know if
they can take mortal identities - do angels disguise themselves as mortals
in religious writings?).
I think angel rulers of the planes of the spheres are appropriate - Brynn,
Draesten, Entrem, Mirage, and Pyts are the planes. They would be useful in
Pandius, along with a few fiends, for running the city, doing all the stuff
the immortals don't want to do or don't have time for (I guess Khoronus
doesn't need them. - oh, sorry for the bad joke).
Here's rulers of planes as per AD&D - you know, Asmodeus, Pazuzu, etc., but
the upper instead of lower. I hope I'm not getting too far off subject...
I included the names of the 7 heavens from the book, because TSR warps
religious so much, so now you can choose if you want the real names or ones
in Manual of the Planes.
1st heaven(Shamain/Shamayim)
Gabriel
2nd (Raquie/Raqia)
Zachariel and Raphael
3rd(Sagun/Shehaqim)
Anahel(chief); subordinate princes : Jabniel, Rabacyel, Dalquiel
4th(Machonon/Machen)
Michael
5th(Mathey/Machon)Sandalphon and Sammael(a.k.a. the Devil) are continually
fighting for rulership of this plane.
6th(Zebul)
Zachiel(chief); subordinate princes: Zebul(during day), Sabath(during night)
7th(Araboth)
Cassiel
The Seven Archangels according to Enoch I(Does that seem like a reliable
source?) - more guys to oppose those rulers of the fiends like Orcus and
Demogorgon and AD&D ones.
1.Uriel
2.Raphael
3.Raguel
4.Michael
5.Zerachiel (Araquel)
6.Gabriel
7.Remiel (Jeremiel)
Metatron must be the most powerful angel, he is king of angels, prince of
divine presence, chancellor of heaven, watchman, supreme angel of death,
angel of Liberation, he is also the "Big Boss's" right-hand angel. He's a
gargantuan being of fire with 36 wings, and innumerable eyes. He appears as
a great pillar of fire when invoked(another manifestation form I suppose).
He has over 100 additional names. I think this guy should be considered an
immortal! It sounds like he could take on all the rulers of the lower
planes at once. He sounds like a good opponent for Alphaks, I bet they
would be bitter enemies.
Would an angel fade if his immortal did? Or would he remain to substitute
as patron of whatever the immortal was(Not like he's going to do anything
near what the immortal did if he stays - They can't grant spells or
anything.)? Thats something to consider.
I wonder if certain angels work for the Old Ones just as some immortals do...
Perhaps it depends upon their origin...
Does anyone know if angels are allowed to appear on the Prime plane in
manifestation form to do certain things (i.e. Do they do this in Earth
religions?)
Could someone find out if they can have mortal identities?
That would be neat to make some stats up for the different orders and uniques...
There are different names and orders for different religions, and if anyone
has questions about these or anything else, just ask me and hopefully I'll
answer. I don't know much about them myself, but I have the book now. That
was just the tip of the iceberg from it.
Well, thats it for now, I'd better go work on Calculus *groan*.
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V1 #270
*****************************
mystara-digest Tuesday, 29 October 1996 Volume 01 : Number 271
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 17:38:59 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] When was the DA series?
On Thu, 24 Oct 1996, Daniel Boese wrote:
> So, folks, does anybody recall just how far back the PCs go in the DA
> series to help Blackmoor start out?
It should be at least 1000 years before the Great Rain of Fire, as in DA1
it mentions that it the Thonian Empire is just now entering its third and
final decline, which will take a full thousand years to realize. That
seems to me to place the PCs at about, umm... BC 4000 (I think 3000 is
the GRoF).
Also, if you'd like, I can send my (scanty at the moment) information on
the Thonian/Blackmoorian timeline, which I've salvaged bits and pieces
from the DA series. Primarily, the last 100 years or so of Thonian
Emperors which are mentioned in DA1.
------------------------------
From: Gabriele Ferri <fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 15:03:55 +-100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Canon vs not-canon
I agree with you about what is "canon" (manuals, Gaz, WotI,...)
>.... The many, many D&D adventures, .....
I cannot say anything about the novels (it's really hard to find them in =
Italy), but I think that the guys at TSR made a really nice job in =
"connecting" what they say in the adventures (at least in the later =
ones) to what they say in GAZs.
Gabriele Ferri - fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it
------------------------------
From: Gabriele Ferri <fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 14:43:18 +-100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] major de-lurk, angels, MOrient
hi there!
welcome back to the list!
So, we've not stopped working on MOrient, we've just taken a little =
break while Joe Duncan is reorganizing what we wrote. It should be ready =
soon (about a week, as he told me yesterday), but I'm not sure that the =
MOrient work will be posted to the list until it's finished. If you're =
interested, you can join the development team (ask Joe!).
I'll reply your questions about angels in a later message.
Gabriele Ferri - fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it
------------------------------
From: Gabriele Ferri <fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 14:59:01 +-100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] angels
Melik wrote:
>These beings can take incorporeal form, and manifestation (anyone know =
if
>they can take mortal identities - do angels disguise themselves as =
mortals
>in religious writings?).
I don't know many things about religious writings, but IMO they could =
polyform self in exceptionally beautiful humans.
>Would an angel fade if his immortal did? Or would he remain to =
substitute
>as patron of whatever the immortal was(Not like he's going to do =
anything
>near what the immortal did if he stays - They can't grant spells or
>anything.)? Thats something to consider.
Here's what I think:=20
an immortal has some angels. If this immortal is blocked in another =
dimension or something like that, his angels have a limited amount of =
time to rescue him. If they fail, they vanish with their "boss". If this =
immortal is punished by the Council of Hierarchs, his angels are =
punished too. Just imagine: many angels who gather to punish some =
others... phew, nice!
>I wonder if certain angels work for the Old Ones just as some immortals =
do...
>Perhaps it depends upon their origin...
Are really there some immortals working for the Old Ones? If I were an =
Old One, I'd never let some _inferior_ creature work for me. IMO Old =
Ones could have their own, more powerful, super-angels.
>Does anyone know if angels are allowed to appear on the Prime plane in
>manifestation form to do certain things (i.e. Do they do this in Earth
>religions?)
I really don't know...
>Could someone find out if they can have mortal identities?
IMO, no.
Anyway, I feel that the total amount of angels should be quite small. If =
it is big, there'll be too much _interference_ on the Prime Plane.
Gabriele Ferri - fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it
>Well, thats it for now, I'd better go work on Calculus *groan*.
Oh, by the way, me too, I hate maths! :-)
------------------------------
From: Matthew_Kammann@westtown.edu (Matthew Kammann)
Date: 25 Oct 1996 14:06:47 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: [Mystara] Karameikan names
mystara-l@io.com,Internet writes:
> I was just looking for some good Karameikan name for an evil NPC. I ask
> this because I've ran out of imagination and my NPC's names are
> repeating ('Hello, my name is Yuri' 'Hey, we've already met him!' 'No,
> that's another...').
Might I suggest
Vladd
Vladamir
Mir
Rabban
Denka
Dunja
or possibly
Stenka
And my alltime favorite
------------------------------
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 20:29:35 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] 2 questions about 'noids
At 21.37 14/10/96 -0700, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote:
>On Sun, 13 Oct 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote:
>> 2) Oenkmarians use a particular lizard named "strider", but no stats are
>> given for this monster. Can we assume it has the same stats of a Rockhome
>> Lizard (maybe it is the same creature) ?
>
>I rechecked this earlier. It isn't listed under "Strider", but I seem to
>recall that the Strider is just another name for the Giant Foot-pad
>lizard mentioned in various products.
>
There's a picture of those lizards in PWA2 in the section about the
Oenkmarian army and they don't look like Giant Food-pad lizard at all,
instead they're quite similar to Rockhome lizards.
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it
DM in City Of The Stars
aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton
aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr
Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html
------------------------------
From: Andrew_McKinstry@westtown.edu (Andrew McKinstry)
Date: 25 Oct 1996 21:59:00 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: [Mystara] angels
You write:
Are really there some immortals working for the Old Ones? If I were an
Old One, I'd never let some _inferior_ creature work for me. IMO Old
Ones could have their own, more powerful, super-angels.
The fact is if Old Ones want to meddle with Immortal society either they
temporarily take on an Immortal identity (much as a Mortal Identity for
Immortals), or they recruit agents. Since Immortals do both, why not Old
Ones? Sinbad the Immortal is a likely Old One agent or Old One in disguise.
In response to angels vs. fiends, I really wouldn't go with St. ____ for
servants of good Immortals, Judeo-Christian Mythology (i.e. the Bible) has
some good ideas, but I wouldn't go word for word, like having the actual
forms and names listed therein, they don't varry much. Maybe one type of
multi-winged single faced humanoids for an Immortal's servant, and more
varied for other species. Personally, I think the idea of Titans is much
better, as the Immortal can craft a form appropriate to their tastes.
Ixion's Titans (which could be called Solari or something like that) could be
beings of powerful fire, while Djea's Titans (maybe Archtreants) could be
gigantic treants with golden leaves and silver bark.
------------------------------
From: Estlor <estlor@geocities.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 23:06:04 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Canon vs not-canon?
I think there needs to be a bit of judgement on the DMs part. After
all, "cannon" is basically defined by what the DM uses. In the aspect
of various net sources, well, everyone has there own spin. Integrating
some of the material is useful, but any additions are subjective in
nature. Oh well, I don't think that cleared anything up...
Estlor
------------------------------
From: Dave Peterson <glyde@scc.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 22:39:43 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mystara] Old AD&D stuff for sale!
Hey everyone! Here's my story...
I just moved and I started sorting through all my old AD&D books and modules
and was thinking that there might be a demand on the net for them, so here
I am, peddling my wares. My apologies to any list administrators who do
not allow this type of thing on their list. Delete this if you must.
Here's what I have to offer:
1. Original Monster Manual (I think) - Cover: Above and below ground scenes
with Red Dragon, Unicorn, Owlbear, Troll, etc.
2. Original Monster Manual II (I think) - Cover: Huge Hill giant vs.
Puny yet spry Fighter in a wooded scene.
3. Original Player's Handbook (I think) - Cover: White wizard vs. some
little demon guys in a dark scene.
4. Player's Handbook, 2nd Edition - Cover: Paladins on horseback racing
through some gorge only to find their supper's cold (That's my take on it
anyway...)
5. The Keep on the Borderlands, Module B-2 - Cover: Elves vs. Orcs in an
epic battle for control of some little hill somewhere.
6. The Lost City, Module B-4 - Cover: The party is distracted from their
pillaging when some guy in a golden helmet makes his grand apearance.
7. Basic D&D Rulebook - Cover: Sorceress and Fighter vs. Green Dragon. My
money's on the reptile.
8. Tales of the Outer Planes, OP-1 (Kenobe?) - A troop of Githyanki close
in on the unfortunate cameraman.
Well, that's it! I realize that some of the latter stuff can still be
bought at your local Schinder's but I included them for the sake of
completeness. If any of the above items catch your eye, drop me an
e-mail at "Glyde@scc.net" (I don't subscribe to this list) and we'll work
something out. Thanks for letting me blow my wad on the list! ;)
(ew...)
- Dave
------------------------------
From: "Raven and Poison" <KATE@academic.stu.StThomasU.ca>
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 14:32:13 AST
Subject: Re: Re: [Mystara] angels
%You write:
%
%Are really there some immortals working for the Old Ones? If I were an
%Old One, I'd never let some _inferior_ creature work for me. IMO Old
%Ones could have their own, more powerful, super-angels.
%
%
% The fact is if Old Ones want to meddle with Immortal society either they
%temporarily take on an Immortal identity (much as a Mortal Identity for
%Immortals), or they recruit agents. Since Immortals do both, why not Old
%Ones? Sinbad the Immortal is a likely Old One agent or Old One in disguise.
%In response to angels vs. fiends, I really wouldn't go with St. ____ for
%servants of good Immortals, Judeo-Christian Mythology (i.e. the Bible) has
%some good ideas, but I wouldn't go word for word, like having the actual
%forms and names listed therein, they don't varry much. Maybe one type of
%multi-winged single faced humanoids for an Immortal's servant, and more
%varied for other species. Personally, I think the idea of Titans is much
%better, as the Immortal can craft a form appropriate to their tastes.
%Ixion's Titans (which could be called Solari or something like that) could be
%beings of powerful fire, while Djea's Titans (maybe Archtreants) could be
%gigantic treants with golden leaves and silver bark.
I use this idea of specific-form divine servitors in my game,
here are the examples so far:
Thanatos: Shadow Knights (like Ringwraiths but less shadowy,
more power).
Zirchev: Chevalls (boost their powers)
Ixion: Sollux, OD&D Archons (closest thing to angels so far)
Ordana/Djaea/Terra: the Guardian (more like an avatar of the
three with a bit of Swamp Thing for more physical
confrontations), Acteons
Rhannion (Faerie Mother Goddess): Defenders (very powerful
sidhe), Faedorne
Dragons: Dragonlords (although they are not gods per se in my
game, the dragons do elevate certain individuals into
near divine status, they appear as Borys from DS -
semi-bipedal with large staves infused with magic).
Nightshade
Kate Hunt
St.Thomas University
Fredericton, N.B., Canada
Email KATE@StThomasU.ca
------------------------------
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 01:26:02 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Canon vs not-canon?
I would definitely exclude the Penhaligon novels from the Mystaran "canon".
As for the rest, I would go along with the "later supersedes earlier" rule
with
one major exception: more interesting and detailed should always supersede
shorter and less interesting. Thus, if a later work contains a single
statement
that contradicts a large body of earlier work, the later work would be in
error.
------------------------------
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 13:44:20 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] angels
In Dragon Magazine #180 Bruce Heard tells us about Limbo and there's
something about Guardian Angels.
These Guardian Angels are dead characters that reached "eternal rest" and
live in the Home Plane of their immortal.
This GA have the same stats of the original PC and gain levels as when they
were alive (and they can even quest for immortality), but they permanently
lose 1d6 hp if killed on the Prime Plane and the die if killed in their Home
Plane (as an immortal).
The GA is invisible (but can freely materialize) in the Prime Plane, can be
harmed only by +2 (or better) weapons, can cast 3 travel spells a day and
cannot take material object away from the Prime Plane. And finally, as
immortals, they cannot deliberately interfere with mortals in the Prime Plane.
Hope this helps
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it
DM in City Of The Stars
aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton
aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr
Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html
------------------------------
From: Andrew_McKinstry@westtown.edu (Andrew McKinstry)
Date: 28 Oct 1996 15:08:58 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: [Mystara] angels
Fabrizio Paoli writes:
These Guardian Angels are dead characters that reached "eternal rest" and
live in the Home Plane of their immortal.
How does one determine "Eternal Rest", i.e. do all PC's end up Guardian
Angels? (Sorry I don't have the article, but it sounds really interesting)
Andrew McKinstry
Andrew_McKinstry@westtown.edu
Telrathin@aol.com
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 14:13:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mystara] Spellfire
I just found out about TSR's trading-card game, "Spellfire". As far as I
know, it's Yet Another M:tG clone, only using the 'official' TSR settings,
characters, and such.
I was wondering.. are there any Mystara-based cards? I know there's
Dragonlance, Birthright, and so on..
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 23:34:58 +0100
Subject: Re: Re: [Mystara] angels
At 15.08 28/10/96 GMT, Andrew McKinstry wrote:
>>Fabrizio Paoli writes:
>>These Guardian Angels are dead characters that reached "eternal rest" and
>>live in the Home Plane of their immortal.
>
>How does one determine "Eternal Rest", i.e. do all PC's end up Guardian
>Angels? (Sorry I don't have the article, but it sounds really interesting)
>
When a PC dies his/her soul ends in Limbo. Here the soul can do basically
two things:
a) Seek eternal rest
b) Return home
Obviously PC will usually try to "return home", i.e. return alive on the
Prime Plane; instead NPC usually seek eternal rest in his/her immortal Home
Plane.
Bringing a PC back to life (b) should be a dangerous and unforgiving task,
because in Limbo there're many evil creatures and the few gates to the Prime
Plane are well hidden (and well known to those creatures).
Seeking eternal rest is no easier task, because the PC should have been
faithful to his Immortal in life and the more he was faithful the less time
he should spend in limbo before reaching the Immortal's plane. If he
betrayed his Immortal in life, then he will not be allowed to become his
servant and will be condemned to remain in Limbo where he will probably fall
prey to the servants of Entrophy.
Normally a PC should adventure for a while (from a few seconds to a few
decades) in Limbo before becoming a Guardian Angel.
Probably my answer is a bit confused, but it's not easy to summarize here 5
pages about Limbo. Maybe Bruce Heard can help us... Hey Bruce, can you hear me ?
IMO Limbo is an interesting idea and an interesting place too with its
strange customs and dwellers, you should really try to find a copy of Dragon
#180.
This is also an interesting way of not killing your PC, I mean: they die on
the Prime Plane but they can try to go back to life without raise dead or
similar, just adventuring.
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it
DM in City Of The Stars
aka David Gnome, herald of Gond's temple in Tilverton
aka Doriath, 1/2 Elf Ranger in Cormyr
Home Page:http://www.ing.unipi.it/~s153349/index.html
------------------------------
From: rverderber@surfer.pcsonline.com (Robert Verderber)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 20:31:58 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Spellfire
I have been playing Spellfire for a couple of months now. I really like it
but
its hard to find the cards or even anyone who plays. They have a booster
pack called Runes and Ruins which feature some of the people and places
from back when I used to play. (The Keep on the Borderlands, Isle of Dread,
etc.)
- ----------
> From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
> To: Mystara Mailing List <mystara-l@io.com>
> Subject: [Mystara] Spellfire
> Date: Monday, October 28, 1996 2:13 PM
>
> I just found out about TSR's trading-card game, "Spellfire". As far as I
> know, it's Yet Another M:tG clone, only using the 'official' TSR
settings,
> characters, and such.
> I was wondering.. are there any Mystara-based cards? I know there's
> Dragonlance, Birthright, and so on..
>
> --
> Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: sleipnir@northernnet.com (JL)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 15:59:09 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Priest of Odin
>Odin (Hierarch of Thought)
<snip>
>Granted Powers:
> At 3rd level a cleric of Odin may cast Find Familiar. This spell may
> be only if the Cleric does not currently have a familiar, and will
> always summon a Raven. In all other respects this ability is
> identical to the mage spell of the same name.
I would also allow it to summon a Wolf, as Odin traditionally has two Wolves
Freki and Geri with him along with his two Ravens Hunin and Munin.
And on a related thread, maybe the ravens and wolves are the forms Odin's
"angels" take?
- -Oarim
------------------------------
From: sleipnir@northernnet.com (JL)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 15:58:54 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] angels
>>I wonder if certain angels work for the Old Ones just as some immortals do...
>>Perhaps it depends upon their origin...
>
>Are really there some immortals working for the Old Ones? If I were an Old
One, I'd never let some _inferior_ creature work for me. IMO Old Ones could
have their own, more powerful, super-angels.
There is no reason to view the Old Ones as existing in a hierarchal mindset.
As matter of fact, they would most likely be enlightened beyond such small
concepts as the view of less powerful beings as "inferior creatures" and
thus use whatever creatures at their disposal for whatever plans and
experiments they have on the Prime and surrounding planes.
They are supposed to be super-intelligent, right?
Any intelligent being would use all the materials available to them.
- -Oarim
------------------------------
From: Kostarsus@sagor.prima.ruhr.de (Thomas Feldkamp)
Date: 22 Oct 1996 13:36:00 +0200
Subject: [Mystara] priests
Hello,
I began to play the world of Mystara as DM, some time ago.
Until today I played the priests by the complete priest handbook and the =
=20
monster mythology. But now I want to insert the original priests of =20
Mystara.
Here comes now my question.
Can anybody post me names of the gods, duties of their priesthoods, =20
requirements, powers of the priests and the spheres of influence, or a =20
reference, where I can find it?
I am thanking forwards for your answers
your Kostarsus
- --=20
r.columbia.edu!news.uoregon.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.lln=
l.gov!enews.sgi.com!decwrl!news.hooked.net!webe-7
MID: 4tmk79$j94_007@ppp.hooked.net
EDA: 19960731033401W+00
LEN: 3218
BEZ: 4t4bnp$mv9@bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca
BEZ: wjrDv2u69.5AA@netcom.com
BEZ: Dv5Ev6.6AM@lexmark.com
BEZ: wjrDv6tLB.A3o@netcom.com
Mailer: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
ORG: Hooked Online Services
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X-XP-NTP: 40
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sk_=E7 P tw_^v=C4 xo=FC3a=0CP!=C7% #s +)> ! P a o0 0(,tu=C9
## CrossPoint v3.11 ##
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V1 #271
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mystara-digest Wednesday, 30 October 1996 Volume 01 : Number 272
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 15:57:55 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: Re: [Mystara] angels
On Mon, 28 Oct 1996, Fabrizio Paoli wrote:
> IMO Limbo is an interesting idea and an interesting place too with its
> strange customs and dwellers, you should really try to find a copy of Dragon
> #180.
> This is also an interesting way of not killing your PC, I mean: they die on
> the Prime Plane but they can try to go back to life without raise dead or
> similar, just adventuring.
I completely agree. Limbo is a very interesting idea, and one that I like
to make use of, particularly as it allows PCs a second chance at life (I
hate it when PCs, esp. low level ones, die just because of a few quirky
die rolls).
In one campaign, one of the PCs was slain by the Rahib (in Rahasia)- he
was held and had his neck broken. Fortunately, through the guidance of
Yuri, their dead cleric (he was a cleric of Zirchev, and Z. didn't like
the Rahib's goals), the PC was able to find his way out of Limbo, where
he was restored (Z. healed the body). The other PCs were quite shocked,
to say the least.
Another interesting aspect of the Limbo thing is the concept of Raise
Dead/Resurrection spells. In the Limbo concept, these spells merely open
a gate to Limbo, through which the PC can attempt to return home. I
prefer this, as I am not a big fan of instant resurrection type spells.
This way, they can still have quite an adventure trying to return to
life, but there is no guarantee that they will succeed.
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 20:56:24 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] priests
> Can anybody post me names of the gods, duties of their priesthoods,
> requirements, powers of the priests and the spheres of influence, or a
> reference, where I can find it?
Well.. I believe there's a net-reference or two, but the main source is
the "Wrath of the Immortals" boxed set, out of print for a while.
PS: On Mystara, they're called "Immortals", not gods. :)
PPS: I glanced at the High-Level Campaign Options book, specifically at
the rules for Divine Ascension... they looked /awfully/ familiar to
somebody who knows how Immortals become Immortal.. ;)
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Rob Rickard <cmnwrld@mhtc.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 21:55:15 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] angels
I dont know about playing afterlife in the game. I am a game master in the
Mystara world for over 10 years when it was the known world. I feel that
when a character dies hes dead. That way players appreciate there
characters more.
I have played that a characters immortal would grant after-life to the
character on his plane if the character lived a worthy life.
I also had an immortal place a character in limbo after the characters
wrongful death. In limbo the character had to prove his worth to the
immortal so he could be reincarnated.
Only the highest priest for Immortals are granted the spell Raise Dead. The
character that is to be reincarnated must also follow that immortal or must
know a follower that is a dedicated worshiper to pray for the immortal to
respond.
------------------------------
From: - <kstephan@online.no>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 04:28:30 +-100
Subject: SV: [Mystara] priests
- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBC61B.108B4580
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
To find informations on the spheres, go to
ftp://ftp.mpgn.com/Gaming/ADND/Worlds/Mystara, where the great Estlor has left a mystaran almanac!
- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBC61B.108B4580
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------------------------------
From: MRRU13B@prodigy.com (MR TIMOTHY M DI BONA)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 09:21:44, -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] priests
Your best bet is to obtain the Wrath of the Immortals boxed set. It
holds many detailed descriptions of Immortals of all powers, and the
powers they bestow to their priests. It shows the paths to obtain
Immortality and how to create your own immortals.
- -tim
------------------------------
From: StarHawk <starhawk@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 09:50:26 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Priest of Odin
On Tue, 29 Oct 1996, JL wrote:
> >Odin (Hierarch of Thought)
> <snip>
> >Granted Powers:
>
> > At 3rd level a cleric of Odin may cast Find Familiar. This spell may
> > be only if the Cleric does not currently have a familiar, and will
> > always summon a Raven. In all other respects this ability is
> > identical to the mage spell of the same name.
>
> I would also allow it to summon a Wolf, as Odin traditionally has two Wolves
> Freki and Geri with him along with his two Ravens Hunin and Munin.
Hmmm, forgot about the wolves. Though I think a wolf might be a little
powerful for a familiar, and Raven (actually Crow, but Ravens aren't much
different) is listed in the PHB as a possible result of the spell to begin
with. I'll have to think about this one.
------------------------------
From: MRRU13B@prodigy.com (MR TIMOTHY M DI BONA)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 09:17:20, -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] angels
>>I wonder if certain angels work for the Old Ones just as some
immortals do...
>>Perhaps it depends upon their origin...
>
>Are really there some immortals working for the Old Ones? If I were
an Old
One, I'd never let some _inferior_ creature work for me. IMO Old Ones
could
have their own, more powerful, super-angels.
There is no reason to view the Old Ones as existing in a hierarchal
mindset.
As matter of fact, they would most likely be enlightened beyond such
small
concepts as the view of less powerful beings as "inferior creatures"
and
thus use whatever creatures at their disposal for whatever plans and
experiments they have on the Prime and surrounding planes.
They are supposed to be super-intelligent, right?
Any intelligent being would use all the materials available to them.
- -Oarim
>Since the old ones created the multi-verse, they probably would
think of anything else as inferior. The >multi-verse is an experiment
for them, like having an ant farm almost. It would probably be
difficult to have >patience with the immortals since they have such a
lack of knowlege and comprehension compared to the >Old Ones.
>-tim
------------------------------
From: Deathwatch <deathw@dds.nl>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 18:25:43 +0100
Subject: [Mystara] Attack Modes
I just read something about AD&D 1st Edition (or OD&D), and there was an
description of a character, but it had something that was called attack
modes, what are those?
Bas
------------------------------
From: Deathwatch <deathw@dds.nl>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 19:10:23 +0100
Subject: Re: SV: [Mystara] priests
Couldn't find it...
------------------------------
From: MRRU13B@prodigy.com (MR TIMOTHY M DI BONA)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 12:36:30, -0500
Subject: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic form
Being the high-master of Dracology, Jaggar can turn into a Lawful
Dragon.
In the AD&D book, it doesn't say the specific Dragon-type.
In the gaz, it says Star Dragon.
In the Rules Cyclopedia it mentions only Diamond, the Immortal Ruler
of Lawful Dragons, as a star Dragon.
I remember someone on the list speaking of Jaggar once being an
Immortal, was he Diamond? Did Diamond take his place? I've been
searching for info on Star Dragons, and have come up with nothing
other than the Immortal Diamond. Does anyone have stats on Star
Dragons, or stats on Jaggar's draconic form? Can someone please help
me out on this one?
- -tim
------------------------------
From: Robert Kaelin <kaelin@natural.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 15:14:20 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Attack Modes
>I just read something about AD&D 1st Edition (or OD&D), and there was an
>description of a character, but it had something that was called attack
>modes, what are those?
>
>Bas
If it's from the 1st Edition they're probably Psionic Attack modes.
You can find them, and all other information on Psionics, in the 1st
Edition Players Handbook, the Complete Book of Psionicists, or in the
Skills and Powers book. (Going from the oldest to newest rules on
psionics. Skills and Powers just revamped them, again.)
If it's from OD&D...no clue.
Hope this helps,
- -Bob
- ------------------------------------------------
Bob Kaelin Natural Intelligence
Software Developer 725 Concord Ave.
(617) 876-7680 x1253 Cambridge Ma. 02138
Kaelin@natural.com <http://www.natural.com>
------------------------------
From: - <kstephan@online.no>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 12:13:14 +-100
Subject: [Mystara] The Monoliths of Zul
Does anyone know anythng about Zul (On the Savage Coast) I've just seen =
it on my map and It's a little mystery to me. If anyone know about a =
place where I can get information please reply.=20
------------------------------
From: - <kstephan@online.no>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 12:21:41 +-100
Subject: [Mystara] VS: The Monoliths of Zul
Does anyone know anythng about Zul (On the Savage Coast) I've just seen =
it on my map and It's a little mystery to me. If anyone know about a =
place where I can get information please reply.=20
------------------------------
From: "David 'Azure' Leland" <dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 96 15:01:44 PST
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Attack Modes
At 06:25 PM 10/30/96 +0100, you wrote:
>I just read something about AD&D 1st Edition (or OD&D), and there was an
>description of a character, but it had something that was called attack
>modes, what are those?
Probably "Attack Ranks" in reference to high-level demi-humans.
They can continue to get improved THAC0s even though they stop getting more
Hit Dice. Hence, the Attack Rank system (a series of letters) is used to
determine their THAC0 once their Hit Dice max out.
Hope this helps.
/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\
~| David "Azure" Leland ~|~ Email: dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu |~
~| UCSD Cognitive Science ~|~ Phone/Fax: (619) 642-6709 |~
~| Oberlin class of 1996 ~|~ Web: http://cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland |~
~| Amateur conguero; Q(O+H)Q(G+W)AEEEBGKUS Mystaran; P75 on Ethernet |~
\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/
------------------------------
From: Rob Rickard <cmnwrld@mhtc.net>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 18:00:39 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] angels
I feel that the 'old ones' are way beyond the needs of the mortals and
immortals. The 'old ones' have found a matured and evolved beyond the
need of the known sphere. They understand that all spheres are to be in
an equal balance and no longer push for just one sphere.
Mortal life is forgotten and not needed. Immortal life is nothing more
than mere childhood. Insignificant is the ways of the immortals
compared to the vast understanding of the 'old ones'.
The 'old ones' are off to bigger and better things that no one can
comprehend. There are the times that the immortals might stumble across
something that one of the 'old ones' might see as significant. The 'old
one' would simply do as he wishes, as he feels, and then leave. The
Immortal powerless, would just be left to deal with it.
I feel that the old one care not for the Immortals and dont interfere
with them. The Immortals must learn on there own what it is to be an
'old one'.
The 'old ones' are independent and all powerful, beyond the
comprehension of immortals.
------------------------------
From: Robert Kaelin <kaelin@natural.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 18:21:27 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic form
>Being the high-master of Dracology, Jaggar can turn into a Lawful
>Dragon.
>In the AD&D book, it doesn't say the specific Dragon-type.
>In the gaz, it says Star Dragon.
>In the Rules Cyclopedia it mentions only Diamond, the Immortal Ruler
>of Lawful Dragons, as a star Dragon.
>I remember someone on the list speaking of Jaggar once being an
>Immortal, was he Diamond? Did Diamond take his place? I've been
>searching for info on Star Dragons, and have come up with nothing
>other than the Immortal Diamond. Does anyone have stats on Star
>Dragons, or stats on Jaggar's draconic form? Can someone please help
>me out on this one?
>
>-tim
(It was me who brought it up before.)
There's an article in Dragon #170 (I think it's 170, I'll check when I get
home and post any correction) that talks about Dragons on Mystara. It goes
into a lot of details on dragon spirits, how dragons grow in power (like
how they progress from small to large to huge to Immortal) and what Mystara
dragons "do" most of their time. Overall it's a very interesting article
(which mostly doesn't deal with the matter at hand so we'll save that for
another post.)
At the end there's a small discussion about Glantrian Dracologists. It
says that the dracologists powers take their energy from dragon spirits and
have been "accidentally" draining the life force out of Dragon spirits
since their inception. (Which explains why Dragons hate Dracologists When
Jaggar became the High Dracologist he did, indeed, become Diamond, the Star
Dragon (There's only one. I'm not sure when/where he fought the old
Diamond, but the article confirms he did take the position.) Shortly
afterwards he realized the full magnitude (or at least more) of Dragon's
existance and figured out that he had disrupted a long standing order and
tradition by unseating the former Star Dragon. Jaggar volunteerily
relinquished his right to be the Star Dragon (and an Immortal one could
imply). I believe it mentions that the Great One was VERY moved by this,
and has granted Jaggar clemency to the vengance of dragons for his powers
and the general hatred Dragons have for Dracologists.
The article ends with something like "...at the moment the Lawful Dragon
spirits are taking part in contests to determine which of them will be the
new Star Dragon." No dates are given anywhere in the article so you can
make these events fit any timeline you like.
Now, it's possible Jaggar was never an Immortal and he just could take the
form of a Star Dragon. It's been a while since I've read that exact
passage so I'm not sure how strongly they imply the High Dracologist is
actually the Immortal. (After he confronts the current dragon ruler, of
course.)
So, to answer your questions as best I can.
He was Diamond. He's not anymore. (Many beings, mostly dragon spirits,
have been the Star Dragon in history, they all use the name 'Diamond' just
for continuity.) The stats for Diamond can be found in either WotI (for
the Immortal himself) or in the Rules Cyclopedia (which if I remember
correctly has the physical stats of the 4 immortal dragons.) There will be
a "new" Diamond shortly.
As for what color dragon Jaggar is now, I say Gold in my campaign. It's
possible the Great One allowed him to retain the purely physical form, but
none of the authority over Lawful Dragons, of the Star Dragon as a gift.
The article never specifies.
Hope this helps and if you get any more info, please let me know,
- -Bob (Who needs to use more damn parantheses when he writes.)
- ------------------------------------------------
Bob Kaelin Natural Intelligence
Software Developer 725 Concord Ave.
(617) 876-7680 x1253 Cambridge Ma. 02138
Kaelin@natural.com <http://www.natural.com>
------------------------------
From: "Mike (The Mouse)" <MHAMAIDE@flemingc.on.ca>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 19:50:29 EDT (-0400)
Subject: [Mystara] Discontinued
Know anything as to the reasons why TSR discontinued Mystara.
------------------------------
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 21:02:24 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] priests
In a message dated 96-10-29 22:22:21 EST, Kostarsus writes:
<< Can anybody post me names of the gods, duties of their priesthoods,
requirements, powers of the priests and the spheres of influence, or a
reference, where I can find it? >>
"Wrath of the Immortals", if you can find it, is the best source of
information on the Immortals of Mystara -- the proper name of
Mystara's "gods". Priests of the Immortals are for the most
part generalist Clerics with one or two extra special abilities -- the
exact special abilities depend on the Immortal served.
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 18:32:45 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Priest of Odin
On Wed, 30 Oct 1996, StarHawk wrote:
> Hmmm, forgot about the wolves. Though I think a wolf might be a little
> powerful for a familiar, and Raven (actually Crow, but Ravens aren't much
> different) is listed in the PHB as a possible result of the spell to begin
> with. I'll have to think about this one.
Perhaps you could allow wolves to be summoned only by higher level PC's?
Say, it comes as a gift from Odin to one of his more powerful and
influential clerics?
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 18:38:45 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] angels
On Wed, 30 Oct 1996, MR TIMOTHY M DI BONA wrote:
> >Since the old ones created the multi-verse, they probably would
> think of anything else as inferior. The >multi-verse is an experiment
> for them, like having an ant farm almost. It would probably be
> difficult to have >patience with the immortals since they have such a
> lack of knowlege and comprehension compared to the >Old Ones.
It isn't known for a fact that the Old Ones created the universe. In
fact, it is implied in the original (gold box) Immortals set that perhaps
there is another, greater power than that of the Old Ones.
In any case, I would have to agree with the observation that the Old Ones
seem to hold the cosmos in general in a less pragmatic fashion than the
current crop of Immortals. That is to say that, from what few
observations of their actions we have seen thus far, they seem to view
the rest of the universe (and mortals in particular) as being all equally
important in the cosmic scheme of things. They seem far less apt to
interefere with mortals than do the Immortals (in fact, they seem far
less apt to interfere with the cosmos at all. They sort of remind me of
the Watchers, of Marvel comics fame.) Recall that they punished the
immortal Rad for his interference in mortal affairs.
I would say that they tend not to use agents at all, save perhaps in very
limited instances, and rather sit back and observe.
Of course, for those of you that use the dimension rules presented in the
gold box set- perhaps they are too busy dealing with events beyond the
Dimensional Vortex to be overly concerned with affairs in the first five
dimensions. Just a thought...
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V1 #272
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mystara-digest Thursday, 31 October 1996 Volume 01 : Number 273
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 18:45:25 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic form
On Wed, 30 Oct 1996, MR TIMOTHY M DI BONA wrote:
> I remember someone on the list speaking of Jaggar once being an
> Immortal, was he Diamond? Did Diamond take his place? I've been
> searching for info on Star Dragons, and have come up with nothing
> other than the Immortal Diamond. Does anyone have stats on Star
> Dragons, or stats on Jaggar's draconic form? Can someone please help
> me out on this one?
He wasn't an immortal, but he was able to take on the form of the Star
Dragon (Diamond), having reached the fifth circle of Dracomancy. He then
defeated the current Star Dragon, and usurped its place as ruler of the
Lawful dragons- but he didn't attain immortality. The dragons have a
curious code of honor (recall subdual) that forced them to acknowledge
him as their ruler.
However, Jaggar later renounced his claim (he didn't realize at the time
what the whole thing truly meant, and was horrified at the truth), and
Lawful dragons were then able to compete for the title of Star Dragon again.
The Great One and most other dragons feel thankful to Jaggar for this.
This info is based on a) GAZ3- where it mentions Jaggar's form as the
Star Dragon, b) GAZ10- where it is reinforced, c) Dragon issue #170,
wherein it is stated that dragons in general hate the Dracomancers, and
it is mentioned that Jaggar gave up the title, etc. All of these are by
Bruce Heard.
Note that this seems to go against the information in a later product,
Wrath of the Immortals, where it is stated that Diamond has been the
ruler of lawful dragons for an undisclosed amount of time (but I seem to
recall that it is implied that she has been their ruler for a long time-
longer than Jaggar has been around, certainly. I may be misremembering.)
------------------------------
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 21:57:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Attack Modes
It might be refering to the fighters options, such as smash,
parry, etc.
- --
Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering
Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu
(1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu
(2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept.
Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely
irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur.
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 19:40:14 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Monoliths of Zul
On Wed, 30 Oct 1996, - wrote:
>
> Does anyone know anythng about Zul (On the Savage Coast) I've just
> seen it on my map and It's a little mystery to me. If anyone know about
> a place where I can get information please reply.
Where is it located, exactly? IIRC, it is one of the monuments of the
former civilization of the Erdu (I think that's right), the winged
minotaurs who lived in Shoktar, before the manscorpions drove them out,
but I'm not sure.
If this is indeed the place I'm thinking of, then there is more
information on the Erdu in Dragon magazine #200. If not, if you could be
a bit more specific as to its location, I'd be more than happy to help.
------------------------------
From: Rob Rickard <cmnwrld@mhtc.net>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 22:55:34 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic form
Jaggar is a white dragon.
Jaggar is (by ceremony of sublimation) the Diamond or Star dragon. Most
Dragons know this now and would love to remove him from his post but
becouse of there releigon (the ceremony) they low there ethos. Dragons
do not want there secrets of the ceremony out and think that a human
rulling over dragons is blasphemy. Dragon kind hate dracomancers as it
is, and Jaggar is the High Master of Dracology at Glantri.
Its one of my favorite subjects on mystara.
I believe that I read somewhere that Jagger was evil in the AD&D
world?!!? I Have never bought into the AD&D version.
------------------------------
From: MRRU13B@prodigy.com (MR TIMOTHY M DI BONA)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 23:10:07, -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic form
<><><><><><><><><><>
As for what color dragon Jaggar is now, I say Gold in my campaign.
It's
possible the Great One allowed him to retain the purely physical form,
but
none of the authority over Lawful Dragons, of the Star Dragon as a
gift.
The article never specifies.
Hope this helps and if you get any more info, please let me know,
- -Bob (Who needs to use more damn parantheses when he writes.)
<><><><><><><><><><>
Thanks. That would be scary if he actually was an Immortal. Two
immortals in Glantri? (Rad and Diamond). Well, thanks for the info.
This should help me out a lot.
- -tim
------------------------------
From: MRRU13B@prodigy.com (MR TIMOTHY M DI BONA)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 07:45:13, -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic form
<
I believe that I read somewhere that Jagger was evil in the AD&D
world?!!? I Have never bought into the AD&D version.
>
yes, they have him as Lawful Evil. I think it fits him a little
better. He is obviously extremely Lawful in his ways, but it can take
him to far. If he destroys chaos anywhere he finds it (whether it is
chaotic good, or chaotic evil) this is a sign of evil IMO.
------------------------------
From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:05:15 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic form
<< Jaggar is a white dragon. >>
why would you think the form is that of a white dragon?
white dragons are neutral in OD&D
and chaotic evil in AD&D
the form depends on the dracologists alignment
and Jaggar is extremely lawful
<<As for what color dragon Jaggar is now, I say Gold in my campaign. It's
possible the Great One allowed him to retain the purely physical form, but
none of the authority over Lawful Dragons, of the Star Dragon as a gift.
The article never specifies.>>
if his form was that of a gold dragon
he would tend to wear golden garments
and maybe some gold jewelry
i favor the idea of him retaining the Star Dragon form
also, his crest shows a dragon with a star above it giving more worth to this
form
------------------------------
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:33:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic form
Rob Rickard pontificated:
>
> Jaggar is a white dragon.
Is this stated in any product? Because white dragon is chaoic and Jaggar
is lawful. Jaggar have 2 white dragons for his winter carrage in Glantry
City.
And as other posters pointed out, Jaggar is not the star dragon anymore.
------------------------------
From: Mike <MHAMAIDE@flemingc.on.ca>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 15:22:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic form
> Jaggar is (by ceremony of sublimation) the Diamond or Star dragon.
I've read the Dragonlord trilogy. According to the book, it says that
the Diamond dragon is the son of the Great One himself. The Diamond
dragon, in human form, is known as Thelven(sp?).
Of course I have my doubts as to if the Author actually researched
the history or timeline of Mystara. However, I thought it a could
attempt at explaining how a dragon immortal came to be.
The Mouse
------------------------------
From: - <kstephan@online.no>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 11:48:01 +-100
Subject: [Mystara] The Monoliths of Zul (more Info).
The Monioliths of Zul are located in the unclaimed territories between Robrenn and
the Baronies. I don't know more for certain....
I saw something about "Free Tortles of Zul".....
------------------------------
From: Robert Kaelin <kaelin@natural.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 16:50:29 -0400
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic form
><< Jaggar is a white dragon. >>
>
>why would you think the form is that of a white dragon?
>white dragons are neutral in OD&D
>and chaotic evil in AD&D
>the form depends on the dracologists alignment
>and Jaggar is extremely lawful
>
><<As for what color dragon Jaggar is now, I say Gold in my campaign. It's
>possible the Great One allowed him to retain the purely physical form, but
>none of the authority over Lawful Dragons, of the Star Dragon as a gift.
>The article never specifies.>>
>
>if his form was that of a gold dragon
>he would tend to wear golden garments
>and maybe some gold jewelry
Excellent point, the pictures of him in the Glantri boxed set all have him
wearing white.
How about a Crystalline Dragon? (For those of you without the Mystara
monsters compendium Mystara Crystalline dragons are (and corect me if I'm
wrong) the strongest of the 'gem' dragons. They appear very similar to
white dragons, which could explain explain his attire and all the
Crystalline Dragons are Lawful, Lawful neutral mostly but they can be any
lawful alignment.)
Also Crystalline Dragons prefer cold mountain climates. (And I haven't
looked at the map of Aalaban in a while so don't kill me for getting this
wrong but isn't that part of his principality's climate?)
>i favor the idea of him retaining the Star Dragon form
>also, his crest shows a dragon with a star above it giving more worth to this
>form
This would mean there are 2 Star Dragons. Wouldn't this be similar to the
whole "disrupting the natural order of Dragonkind" argument that Jaggar
gave when he relinquished the title? The star could be a crystal.
(Supporting the Crystalline Dragon alignment.)
I think I just talked myself into making him a Crystalline Dragon, any
suggestions?
- -Bob
- ------------------------------------------------
Bob Kaelin Natural Intelligence
Software Developer 725 Concord Ave.
(617) 876-7680 x1253 Cambridge Ma. 02138
Kaelin@natural.com <http://www.natural.com>
------------------------------
From: Alad3@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 17:19:12 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Davania and Arypt
Arypt is actually shown in the Master set DM's handbook. As to what it is,
IIRC it's a nation that appears every few years only to disappear later on (I
think Bruce said something like that).
Alad3
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 15:26:41 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic form
On Thu, 31 Oct 1996, Shin Chyang Yu wrote:
> Rob Rickard pontificated:
> Is this stated in any product? Because white dragon is chaoic and Jaggar
> is lawful. Jaggar have 2 white dragons for his winter carrage in Glantry
> City.
I'm not sure, but I believe that White dragons are only chaotic in AD&D,
and on AD&D worlds other than Mystara. I know that OD&D whites are lawful
(albeit probably lawful evil, to use AD&D alignment types), but I am not
sure if this is stated in the Mystara Monstrous Compendium (as I don't own
the thing.)
------------------------------
From: s9406058@student.anu.edu.au (Shawn)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 10:28:31 +1000
Subject: [Mystara] When immortals achieved immortality
This posting is an update to my previous Activity Levels of Immortals posting.
If though about it and figured that the Activity level thing didn't really mean
that much, I mean immortals can potentially go around all the time using PP.
So instead here is a list still containing the year the immortal achieved
immortality but also giving my reasoning for this choice of year. All the data
has been rechecked as there has proven to be some errors in it. For example
I got the date in which Alphaks achieved immortality totally wrong which means
that there is an error in my Gombar and Suma'a timeline. This timeline will
be updated shortly, though.
As far as this posting is concerned there is a key at the bottom of the file
to help make sense of it. If there are any noticeable errors or people can
furthur constrain dates more that what I have, this would be greatly
appreciated. You can send such things to me at
s9406058@student.anu.edu.au
Immortal Name Level YIA Source
Ahmanni Turtlerider *C 800 BC GAZ14, 14
Atruaghin sought his patrons help to bring Ahmanni back from the dead in
800 BC after the revolt against the Red Orcs. Ahmanni then eventually
achieved immortality although there is no suggestion how long this process
took.
Al-Kalim 3 1000 AC WotI, 13-4
Al-Kalim only recently earned his immortality therefore 1000 AC is a total
guess.
Alphaks 20 1100 BC WotI, 14
Alphaks was an Alphatian ruler before it was destroyed and sometime before it
was destroyed set on the path to immortality. Two hundred years before he
refound them on Mystara he had attained immortality. 1100 BC is a guess
assuming that ALphaks turned up on Mystara around 900 BC, although it
could really be any date.
Alphatia 16 800 BC WotI, 14-5
Alphatians arrived at 1000 BC and soon afterwards Aasla undertook the path
to immortality which took 200 years to complete. Therefore 800 BC is a
maximum possible date for YIA, although it is less than this.
Arik 18 ?? .html
There is no indication in the file as to when Arik attained immortality.
Asterius 27 3500 BC HW, 98
Asterius is a member of the Blackmoor civilisation who attained immortality
sometime before its' destruction and possibly sometime earlier. 3500 BC
is taken as both the midpoint of the Blackmoorian civilisation and also the
time at which the Blackmoor civilisation was flourishing.
Atruaghin 32 795 BC GAZ14, 7
Atruaghin achieved immortality in 795 BC.
Atzanteotl 31 1500 BC HW, 13
Atziann achieves immortality in 1500 BC and takes the name Atzanteotl.
Bagni Gullymaw *C 1299 BC .html
The file timeline.htm attributes that in 1299 BC that Bagni ate an
elephant, he undoubtedy achieved immortality some time after this.
Bartziluth *C ?? WotI, 39
There is no indication in WotI about Bartziluth.
Bemarris *I ?? WotI, 39
Bemmaris was an Alphatian in Norwold. There is no indication as to when
Alphatians first came to Norwold so anytime since about 1000 BC is possible,
though a more recent age is likely.
Benekander 1 4000 BC WotIf, 6-7
Rheddrian sacrificed himself a thousand years before the Blackmoor catastophe
in 3000 BC by averting what would have been a bigger catastrophe.
Brissard *T ?? WotI, 39
There is no indication in WotI about Brissard.
Calitha Starbrow 18 5000 BC WotI, 18
Calitha was one of the first generation evergrun elves, therefore a time
before 5000 BC is likely.
Chardastes *C 1200 BC WotI, 39
Chardastes was a Traladaran which could indicate an age between 1400 BC when
the Traldar culture rose to 1000 BC when they were nearly decimated.
Chiron *I 1000 AC WotI, 39
Chiron only recently earned his immortality therefore 1000 AC is a total guess.
Clebard, Saimpt *I ?? RS, 107
There is no indication in RS about Saimpt Clebard.
Crakkak *T ?? WotI, 39
There is no indication in WotI about Crakkak.
Cretia 13 3000 BC .html
Cretia was a mortal during the time of the Blackmoor destruction, therefore
3000 BC is a minimum age.
Danel Tigerstripes *C 792 BC GAZ14, 8
Danel was first turned against Atruaghin on 792 BC. This process eventually
lead to his achieving immortality although there is no suggestion when this
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was.
Demogorgon *E ?? WotI, 40
There is no indication in WotI about Demogorgon.
Diamond 16 700 AC WotI, 18
Diamond had a mortal existance a few hundred years ago. Therefore 700 AC is
a maximum possible date for YIA, although it is less than this.
Diulanna 18 ?? WotI, 18
Diulanna was a Neather from the area which became the Hinterlands, there
is no other indication apart from this.
Djaea 34 3000 BC WotI, 19
Djaea was on the path to immortality when Blackmoor exploded in 3000 BC.
Eiryndul 20 1300 BC WotI, 19
Eiryndul was an elf in the Sylvan Realm which existed after 2100 BC. By
800 BC Eiryndul has achieved immortality, the text seems to indicate a date
closer to 800 BC rather than 2100 BC, therefore 1300 BC is an arbitrary date.
Faunus 11 ? WotI, 20
Faunus cannot remember his early existance.
Forsetta 7 614 AC .html
Ottar the Just started his quest for immortality in 614 AC after he started
the Kingdom of Vestland, there is no indication how long that took.
Frey/Freyja 13 2400 BC WotI, 21
Frey and Freyja were Anatalians, 2400 BC was a time when the Anatalian culture
was flourishing. Although 2000-1750 BC is given as the year range when the
Anatalians migrated to the area now known as the Northern Reaches it
depends how you take then sentence which says "... were brother and sister,
members of the Anatalians, ancient tribes which eventually became the men
of the Northern Reaches ..."
Garal Glitterlode *T 3300 BC HW, 102
Garal created the gnomes around 2900 BC, it just depends how long it took
him to get a high enough level to expend the PP to create gnomes. Therefore
3300 BC is an arbitrary date.
Gorm *E ?? WotI, 40
There is no indication in WotI about Gorm.
Gorrziok *E ?? WotI, 40
There is no indication in WotI about Gorrziok.
Great One, The 26 ?? WotI, 21
There is no indication in WotI about The Great One.
Halav 17 900 BC HW, 103
Halav was immortal in 1000 BC when the gnolls attacked the Traldar lands.
He then helped to fight back against the gnolls and then went off to attain
immortality, there is no suggestion how long this took - 900 BC is probably
the earlier limit.
Harrow *T ?? WotI, 40
There is no indication in WotI about Harrow.
Hattani Stoneclaw *C 792 BC GAZ14, 8
Hattani achieved immortality in 792 BC.
Hel 36 ? WotI, 22
Hel is so old she does not remember her mortal existence.
Iliric *T ?? RS, 108
There is no indication in RS about Iliric.
Ilsundal 33 1800 BC HW, 12
Ilsundal created the first Tree of Life in 1800 BC an became an immortal.
Ixion 36 ? WotI, 23
Ixion is so old he does not remember his mortal existance.
Jammudaru *I ?? WotI, 40
There is no indication in WotI about Jammudaru.
Ka the Preserver 35 ? WotI, 23
Ka is so old he does not remember his mortal existance.
Kagyar 28 5500 BC WotI, 24
Kagyar was a member of the Brute-Men who began to fall in upon themselves in
5300 BC. 5500 BC taken as an arbitrary date before this in the assumption
the Kagyar was not a Brute-Man at that time.
Kallala *C ?? WotI, 40
There is no indication in WotI about Kallala.
Karaash 5 ?? WotI, 24
The only indication on Karaash is that he had to be an immortal in 492 BC
when he transported some orcs to the Hollow World.
Khoronus 36 4000 BC WotI, 25
Khoronous was one one of the early founders of Blackmoor, 4000 BC is the year
given for when Blackmoor civilisation begins it's meteoric rise.
Korotiku 32 ? WotI, 26
Korotiku is so old he oes not rememebr his mortal existance
Koryis 10 1027 BC WotI, 26
Koryis started on his quest for immortality long before Alphatia was destroyed,
Koryis returned home when he achieved immortality which was at a time after
Alphatia was destroyed. 1027 BC is the year when the war broke out, Koryis
could have achieved immortality anytime before this.
Kythria *I ?? WotI, 40
Kythria's sponsor was Eiryndul who achieved immortality himself around 1300 BC
therefore some time after this is the only possibility.
Leptar *C ?? WotI, 40
There is no indication in WotI about Leptar.
Liena *I 1000 AC WotI, 40
Liena only recently earned his immortality therefore 1000 AC is a total guess.
Lokena *I ?? WotI, 40
Lokena existed in Glantri which indicates a range from 829 AC when Lord
Glantri founded the Republic of Glantri, to present.
Loki 30 1900 BC WotI, 27
Loki was a member of the outer-world Antalian tribes which eventually became
the Northern Reaches. The Antalians migrated to the Northern Reaches area in
the period 2000 BC to 1750 BC and existed there until 1722 BC when they were
moved to the Hollow World. Therefore 1900 BC is arbitrarily chosen .
Loup, Saimpt *T ?? RS, 108
There is no indication in RS about Saimpt Loup.
Maat *E ?? WotI, 40
There is no indication in WotI about Maat.
Madarua *E 400 BC WotI, 40
Madarua was a member of the Nithian Empire and attained immortality some
time after its' destruction in 500 BC, 400 BC is arbitrarily chosen.
Mahmatti Running Elk *C 452 BC GAZ14 ,8
Mahmatti achieved immortality in 452 BC.
Malafor *C ?? WotI, 40
There is no indication in WotI about Malafor.
Malinois, Saimpt *C ?? RS, 108
There is no indication in RS about Saimpt Malinois.
Marwdyn *T ?? WotI, 40
There is no indication in WotI about Marwdyn
Masauwu 28 ?? WotI, 27
Masauwu lived in Minrothad. The Minrothad Guilds were created in 691 AC,
so any time after this is likely.
Matin, Saimpt *T ?? RS, 109
There is no indication in RS about Saimpt Matin.
Mealiden Starwatcher 23 250 BC WotI, 28
Mealiden achieved immortality in 250 BC.
Minroth *C 1100 BC WotI, 40
Minroth lead some Nithians to what is now the Minrothad Guilds in 1100 BC.
It is assumed he attained immortality some time after this.
Mrikitat *E 491 AC PC4, 5
Mrikitat achieved immortality in 491 AC.
Noumena 34 500 BC WotI, 28
Noumena was questing for immortality whilst the Nithian culture was being
corrupted. 500 BC is the time when the outer world Nithian culture ended,
which may be taken as a rough time for when Noumena attained immortality.
Nyx 33 ? WotI, 29
Nyx is so old she does not remember his mortal existence.
Odin 36 ? WotI, 29
Odin is so old he does not remember his mortal existence.
Opal 13 ?? WotI, 30
There is no indication in WotI about Opal.
Orcus 25 1000 BC WotI, 31
Orcus was a mortal in Traldar which was devestated in 1000 BC, there is no
indication as to when he attained immortality.
Ordana 31 ? WotI, 31
Ordana existed a long time ago and indead created the elven race, she
attained immortality a very long time ago.
Palartarkan *T 950 BC HW, 111
Ar was on his quest for immortality when the Alphatians came to Mystara in
1000 BC. 950 BC is probably the early limit for his attaining immortality.
Palson *I ?? WotI, 40
Palson was sponsered to immortality by Noumena therefore an age sometime after
500 BC, when Noumena roughly attained immortality, is likely.
Patura *I ?? WotI, 40
Patura was a Thyatian ruler. Thyatis was formed around 500 BC therefore an
age between then an recent is possible.
Pearl 10 ?? WotI, 32
There is no indication in WotI about Pearl.
Petra 17 1000 BC HW, 111
Petra was immortal in 1000 BC when the gnolls attacked the Traldar lands.
He then helped to fight back against the gnolls and then went off to attain
immortality, there is no suggestion how long this took - 900 BC is probably
the earlier limit.
Pflarr 25 1650 BC HW, 12
Pflarr is said to have achieved immortality during the period 1750 BC to
1500 BC although no more direct indication is given. Although Pflarr had
to be of a high enough level to afford to create the Hutaakans in 1500 BC,
therefore closer to 1750 BC seems a more likely answer.
Polunius *E ?? WotI, 41
There is no indication in WotI about Polunius.
Protius 29 ? WotI, 32
Protius is a very old immortal who is of a race that predates humans.
Rad 22 845 AC WotIf, 8
In 845 AC Etienne found the Radience and used it to achieve immortality,
there is no indication of the time that this took.
Rafiel 21 3000 BC HW, 114
Rafiel was a member of the Blackmoor civilisation during the time when the
device exploded in 3000 BC. Although it is not known how he became an
immortal it may be assumed that the explosion had something to do with it.
Ralon, Saimpt *I ?? RS, 109
There is no indication in RS about Saimpt Ralon.
Ranivorus *C 900 BC HW, 114
HW states that Ranivorus was not yet an immortal at 1000 BC during the gnoll
attacks on the Traldar with the assumption being that he was perhaps
attempting immortality at this time, therefore 900 BC is an early limit.
Rathanos 28 3000 BC HW, 114
Rathanos was a member of the Oltecs and assuming this means the older-world
Oltecs then 3000 BC is taken as the year when the Oltec civilisation declined.
Anytime from 4000 BC about when the Oltecs as a civilisation started and
3000 BC seems possible.
Razud 31 1500 BC WotI, 36
razud attained immortality a long time before the destruction of Alphatia in
1000 BC. 1500 BC is an arbitrary date.
Ruaidhri Hawkbane *I 593 AC PC4, 5
Ruaidhri slew the last werehawk in 593 AC which undoubtedly was one of the
final steps to his achieving immortality.
Saasskas *C ?? WotI, 41
There is no indication in WotI about Saasskas.
Sharpcrest *C ?? WotI, 41
There is no indication in WotI about Sharpcrest.
Shining One, The *T ?? WotI, 41
There is not indication in WotI about Kurtulmak.
Sinbad *C ?? WotI, 41
There is no direct indication in WotI about Sinbad although it suggests
that he may be an Old One or one of their agents.
Slizzark the Lurker *C ?? WotI, 41
There is no indication in WotI about Slizzark.
Ssu-Ma *E ?? WotI, 41
There is no indication in WotI about Ssu-Ma.
Tahkati Stormtamer *C 1675 BC GAZ14, 6
Tahkati united the tribes into the Children of the Horse in 1675 BC which
lead to his attaining immortality, presumably before 1650 BC.
Talitha 25 ?? WotI, 36
Talitha existed in Alphatia though the description does not indicate the
planet or the country. Owing to her high level one may well assume that it
is from the planet Alphatia.
Tarastia 30 1800 BC HW, 116
Tarastia was a member of the outer-world Jennite civilisation started in
1900 BC and were later moved to the Hollow World by Tarastia in 1600 BC.
Therefore 1800 BC was a year arbitrarily chosen as being closer to 1900 BC
to allow Tarastia to be powerful enough to move her culture to the Hollow
World.
Taroyas *I ?? WotI, 41
Taroyas was a member of the Known World Milenians, which indicates a time from
1000 BC when gnolls invaded Traldaran lands instigating the migration which
lead to the formation of the Milenian civilisation to 50 BC when the Milenian
culture of the Known World collapsed utterly under attacks from surrounding
tribes. Any date in here may be chosen.
Terra 36 ? WotI, 37
Terra achieved immortality some time ago.
Thanatos 35 ? WotI, 37
Thanatos is so old he does not remember his mortal existence.
Thor 28 1900 BC HW, 116
Thor was a member of the outer-world Antalian tribes which eventually became
the Northern Reaches. The Antalians migrated to the Northern Reaches area in
the period 2000 BC to 1750 BC and existed there until 1722 BC when Thor
helped move them to the Hollow World. Therefore 1900 BC is arbitrarily
chosen as a date closer to 2000 BC to allow Thor to be powerful enough to
assist in movingthe Antalians to the Hollow World.
Tiresias *I ?? WotI, 41
No indication about Tiresias is given in WotI.
Turmis *I ?? WotI, 41
Turmis is indicated to be Thyatian which indicates a range from 600 BC the
first time the Thyatian tribe is mentioned to present, any year in this
range is possible.
Twelve Watchers, The *I ?? WotI, 41
Doregar was Darokinnian mage which should indicate a range from 927 AC when
the Great Merger occurred and the Republic of Darokin was born.
Tyche *E ?? WotI, 41
No indication about Tyches is given in WotI though it does say that she is
an ancient immortal.
Usamigaras *E ?? WotI, 41
There is no indication in WotI about Usamigaras.
Valerias 31 ? WotI, 38
Valerias does not remember her mortal existence.
Vanya 23 600 BC HW, 118
Vanya was a member of the Kerendan tribe whilst they were being attacked by
Milenians, which occurred around 600 BC.
Verthandi *H ?? WotI, 41
Verthandi is a very old immortal being a Heirarch and has dissappeared. He
is probably so old that he has forgotten his mortal existence.
Wayland *E ?? WotI, 41
Wayland is attributed to being the cheif architect of Pandius though I
can find no indication as to when it was made.
Wogar *I 1263 BC GAZ10, 4
Wogar becomes an Immortal in 1263.
Yagrai *T 1688 BC GAZ10, 4
Akkila-Khan retires from the world in 1688 BC and becomes the immortal Yagrai.
Yav *C 758 AC CoM, 38
Yav attained immortality in 758 AC.
Zirchev 17 1000 BC HW, 119
Zirchev was immortal in 1000 BC when the gnolls attacked the Traldar lands.
He then helped to fight back against the gnolls and then went off to attain
immortality, there is no suggestion how long this took - 900 BC is probably
the earlier limit.
?? - Unknown YIA
? - Immortal so old, they have forgotten their mortal existence or immortal
very old, that is older than 5000 BC.
*I - Level unknown, Initiate
*T - Level unknown, Temporal
*C - Level unknown, Celestial
*E - Level unknown, Empyreal
YIA
Year Immortality Achieved (year as per Thyatian Calendar)
Source
WotI - Wrath of the Immortals, Codex of the Immortals
HW - Hollow World Boxed Set, Dungeon Master's Sourcebook
GAZxx - Gazetter of the number indicated
WotIf - Wrath of the Immortals, The Immortals' Fury
PCx - Creature Crucible of the number indicated
CoM - Champions of Mystara, Explorer's Manual
.html - A file found elsewhere on this site
RS - Red Steel, Campaign Book
Shawn Stanley
I am a QHQGMEEEBBGAU Mystaran
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/index.html
------------------------------
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mystara-digest Friday, 1 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 274
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 19:33:34 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Monoliths of Zul (more Info).
On Thu, 31 Oct 1996, - wrote:
> The Monioliths of Zul are located in the unclaimed territories between
> Robrenn and the Baronies. I don't know more for certain....
> I saw something about "Free Tortles of Zul".....
Hmm. I'm not sure then. Was this mentioned in the writeup on Tortle
religion that Bruce Heard posted here a while back?
If not, then I'm not sure what they are. As for the 'Free Tortles' bit,
those are the Free Tortles of Dunwick, not Zul.
Perhaps the monoliths of Zul are monuments dedicated to the (fire?)
aspect of the old Afridhi god Zugzul. (For those who have no idea what
I'm talking about, it's in the DA series. The Afridhi worshipped a god
named Zugzul, the One. In DA4 it is revealed that he has two aspects, a
fire part- I think that's the Zul, though it could be the Zug- and an ice
part- which is whatever the fire part isn't. Helpful, aren't I?)
Anyway, the location (depending on where you figure Blackmoor
should/is/willan on haven been located) would be about right.
Particularly if some of the Afridhi- those worshipping Zul- split from
the Zug and migrated a bit southwards.
Which begs the question- where are the Zug worshippers?
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 19:27:44 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic form
On Thu, 31 Oct 1996, Robert Kaelin wrote:
> How about a Crystalline Dragon? (For those of you without the Mystara
> monsters compendium Mystara Crystalline dragons are (and corect me if I'm
> wrong) the strongest of the 'gem' dragons. They appear very similar to
> white dragons, which could explain explain his attire and all the
> Crystalline Dragons are Lawful, Lawful neutral mostly but they can be any
> lawful alignment.)
Actually, unless (again) the AD&D Compendium has changed things, I think
that the Brown/Amber Dragons are actually the most powerful of the Gem
Dragons. I think Ruby is next (the rationale being that Brown/Amber
dragons are the gem equivalent of Gold dragons, the Ruby's being the
equivalent of Red dragons, etc.)
> This would mean there are 2 Star Dragons. Wouldn't this be similar to the
> whole "disrupting the natural order of Dragonkind" argument that Jaggar
> gave when he relinquished the title? The star could be a crystal.
> (Supporting the Crystalline Dragon alignment.)
Not necessarily. Perhaps as long as there was only one Star Dragon (in
this case, the victorious Jaggar), the dragons had to acknowledge him as
their ruler. But in voluntarily giving up the claim as their ruler, new
dragons could compete for the title, allowing a new ruler to be named.
This doesn't mean that Jaggar would have had to give up his claim on the
Star Dragon form, just the suzerainty (a dragon word for rulership) that
it implies.
Anyway, why would Jaggar's preference for wearing white have anything to
do with the sort of dragon form he takes? (Unless you're going by the
AD&D Glantri boxed set rules, in which case that begs the question- why
doesn't Jaggar look more like a dragon, less like a human? Discuss.)
------------------------------
From: Rob Rickard <cmnwrld@mhtc.net>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 21:25:44 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic form
>Jaggar have 2 white dragons for his winter carrage in Glantry
> City.
Is this in the new AD&D. I have to get this stuff. I need more
knowledge. Some of it seems a little warped.
------------------------------
From: Rob Rickard <cmnwrld@mhtc.net>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 21:04:33 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic form
I looked all around for where I read Jaggar for was. I cant find it.
Im sure that it was some where. I did find where his sister draconic
form was of a white dragon, but nothing about him (other than star). I
alos found where he did step down from being the dragon ruler (once he
found out tht he was using dragon sprits). The the great one and other
lawful dragons then befriended him for his noble actions. I like the
idea of him being a Gold better than a white.
White dragons are known as nurtral & also lawful (AC10).
There have been dragons of each kind known to be of any alignment; white
leans to be neutral & lawful but there have been evil dragons.
Anyway that is how I have played them.
------------------------------
From: Rob Rickard <cmnwrld@mhtc.net>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 21:21:26 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic form
>I've read the Dragonlord trilogy. According to the book, it says that
>the Diamond dragon is the son of the Great One himself. The Diamond
>dragon, in human form, is known as Thelven(sp?).
>Of course I have my doubts as to if the Author actually researched
>the history or timeline of Mystara. However, I thought it a could
>attempt at explaining how a dragon immortal came to be.
- -------------------------
This is a little rude and radical but I think that one of reasons that
Mystara took the big dive is becouse of the Dragonlord Chronicles.
Mystara is one of the best worlds that TSR has put out. I believe the
best. If Mystara had writers like the writers for Dragonlace, It would
of took off like a roocket.
I didnt care for the books at all, and no, I dont think that Thorarinn
put much time in researching at all. I meet Thorarinn and had him put
his name in the first of the Chronicles. He was a nice guy and we
talked alot. I wish that I was able to talk to him after I read it.
Bruce Heard, that is the man to talk to about Mystara. Anyone know if
he get this mailing?
------------------------------
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 01:05:27 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic form
Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One pontificated:
> I'm not sure, but I believe that White dragons are only chaotic in AD&D,
> and on AD&D worlds other than Mystara. I know that OD&D whites are lawful
> (albeit probably lawful evil, to use AD&D alignment types), but I am not
> sure if this is stated in the Mystara Monstrous Compendium (as I don't own
> the thing.)
You sure about that? I don't have my D&D stuff, but I'm pretty sure
there were only one lawful dragon in the 6 basic type of OD&D dragons,
the Gold. Come to think of it, I think white was neutral in OD&D.
With Red, Black, and Green been Chaoic.
- --
Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering
Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu
(1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu
(2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept.
Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely
irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur.
------------------------------
From: sleipnir@northernnet.com (JL)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 23:49:14 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] angels
>Since the old ones created the multi-verse, they probably would
>think of anything else as inferior. The multi-verse is an experiment
>for them, like having an ant farm almost. It would probably be
>difficult to have patience with the immortals since they have such a
>lack of knowlege and comprehension compared to the Old Ones.
*Did* they create the Multiverse?
I'm curious as to where you found this information on them, as all I had
heard was that they were beings a step above Immortals, of unknown age and
origin. Never heard anything about them creating the Multiverse. As a
matter of fact, in the old Gold Immortals set, it is hinted that there is a
power beyond that of the Old Ones...
And if everything else was so "inferior", why would they even bother to
watch these beings or consider them worthy of becoming Old Ones?
Can an "inferior" ant become a "superior" human? No, obviously.
Thus the Old Ones would not view the Multiverse as an "ant farm expirement"
because it would be an effort in futility to produce new Old Ones.
And beings of such infinite Wisdom and eternal lifespans, probably existing
at all times at once, would not even have a concept of impatience. They
have eternity, why be impatient?
I think anthromorphizing the Old Ones as "big Scientists in the Sky" is a
big mistake and a poor representation of the level of mental-evolution of
these creatures.
- -Oarim
------------------------------
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 01:13:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic form
Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One pontificated:
>
> Actually, unless (again) the AD&D Compendium has changed things, I think
> that the Brown/Amber Dragons are actually the most powerful of the Gem
> Dragons. I think Ruby is next (the rationale being that Brown/Amber
> dragons are the gem equivalent of Gold dragons, the Ruby's being the
> equivalent of Red dragons, etc.)
The AD&D did changed things up a bit, bit I'm not exactly sure how.
> This doesn't mean that Jaggar would have had to give up his claim on the
> Star Dragon form, just the suzerainty (a dragon word for rulership) that
> it implies.
I agree.
> Anyway, why would Jaggar's preference for wearing white have anything to
> do with the sort of dragon form he takes? (Unless you're going by the
> AD&D Glantri boxed set rules, in which case that begs the question- why
> doesn't Jaggar look more like a dragon, less like a human? Discuss.)
Well, he probably wear white because he like the color white, and when
he first decide to pick a dragon form for him to take, he would like
to pick one with white color.
- --
Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering
Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu
(1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu
(2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept.
Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely
irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur.
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 00:50:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: re: [Mystara] When immortals achieved immortality
I appreciate most of this info, but I'd like to make a few corrections
and suggestions... Not all of the information presented is completely
accurate.
Please don't take any of this the wrong way, Shawn.. I'm just offering
some constructive criticism. :)
> Alphaks 20 1100 BC WotI, 14
>
> Alphaks was an Alphatian ruler before it was destroyed and sometime
> before it was destroyed set on the path to immortality. Two hundred
> years before he refound them on Mystara he had attained immortality.
> 1100 BC is a guess assuming that ALphaks turned up on Mystara around
> 900 BC, although it could really be any date.
According to WotI...
"...2000 BC... After a very long time, he attained Immortality. After a
much longer time, about 200 years ago, he tracked down the descendants of
the Alphatians, who had fled to Mystara"
Thus, Alphaks came to the known world around 800 AC.. And gained
Immortality sometime between 2000 BC and 500 BC or so.
> Chardastes *C 1200 BC WotI, 39
>
> Chardastes was a Traladaran which could indicate an age between 1400 BC
> when the Traldar culture rose to 1000 BC when they were nearly
> decimated.
Actually, the Traladarans first became "Traladarans", instead of
"Traldar", about 500 BC - possibly as early as 800 BC. So Chardastes
would have become Immortal anytime after that - likely with Petra as his
sponsor.
> Chiron *I 1000 AC WotI, 39
>
> Chiron only recently earned his immortality therefore 1000 AC is a
> total guess.
Chiron still has living mortal children.. but they're not very young.
His YIA is probably closer to 900, or 925 AC or so.
> Diulanna 18 ?? WotI, 18
>
> Diulanna was a Neather from the area which became the Hinterlands,
> there is no other indication apart from this.
Just a quick note, that the Neathar existed from before 6000 BC to
about 3000 BC.
> Halav 17 900 BC HW, 103
>
> Halav was immortal in 1000 BC when the gnolls attacked the Traldar
> lands. He then helped to fight back against the gnolls and then went
> off to attain immortality, there is no suggestion how long this took -
> 900 BC is probably the earlier limit.
I'm afraid that Halav (as well as Petra and Zirchev) were all very much
mortal during the 1000 BC gnollish invasion. 900 BC seems about right
for any of them to attain Immortality, though.
> Ka the Preserver 35 ? WotI, 23
>
> Ka is so old he does not remember his mortal existance.
Ka very much remembers his mortal existance.. in fact, he's the one who
developed the memory techniques most modern Immortals use to recall
their long lives.
> Orcus 25 1000 BC WotI, 31
>
> Orcus was a mortal in Traldar which was devestated in 1000 BC, there is
> no indication as to when he attained immortality.
Um.. not quite.
WotI again:
"In his mortal life, Orcus was a devil swine in long-ago Traladara."
Now, since devil swine first appeared in 623 AC, in Alphatia, I'd pin
his YIA closer to 700 AC - Karameikos was still Traladara then.
> Ordana 31 ? WotI, 31
>
> Ordana existed a long time ago and indead created the elven race, she
> attained immortality a very long time ago.
Specifically, Ordana attained Immortality "long before the elves or any
other human-like race walked Mystara."
> Petra 17 1000 BC HW, 111
See "Halav" above.
> Pflarr 25 1650 BC HW, 12
>
> Pflarr is said to have achieved immortality during the period 1750 BC
> to 1500 BC although no more direct indication is given. Although
> Pflarr had to be of a high enough level to afford to create the
> Hutaakans in 1500 BC, therefore closer to 1750 BC seems a more likely
> answer.
Hm.. according to WotI:
"By the time the Nithian culture was beginning its ascension [1750 BC],
Pflarr was reaching his personal heights as a powerful magician ... By
the time the Nithian Empire was in place [1500 BC], Pflarr was its first
native-born (or native-created) Immortal."
I don't see why Pflarr couldn't have created two Hutaaka in 1500 BC,
immediately after gaining Immortality... if he needed more later on, he
could have created them then.
> Protius 29 ? WotI, 32
>
> Protius is a very old immortal who is of a race that predates humans.
Just to pin this a little firmer, WotI claims that Protius was an
Immortal for "thousands and millions of years" before Blackmoor.
> Razud 31 1500 BC WotI, 36
>
> razud attained immortality a long time before the destruction of
> Alphatia in 1000 BC. 1500 BC is an arbitrary date.
Actually, Razud attained Immortality long before the Alphatians
conquered the Cypri civilization in 4000 BC.
> Twelve Watchers, The *I ?? WotI, 41
>
> Doregar was Darokinnian mage which should indicate a range from 927 AC
> when the Great Merger occurred and the Republic of Darokin was born.
Actually, the lands now called "Darokin" have been called such as early
as 21 AC, when Ansel Darokin declared himself "King of Darokin".
> Zirchev 17 1000 BC HW, 119
See Halav, above.
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
who seems to say "Actually" a lot. :)
------------------------------
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 01:44:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic form
Rob Rickard pontificated:
>
> >Jaggar have 2 white dragons for his winter carrage in Glantry
> > City.
>
> Is this in the new AD&D. I have to get this stuff. I need more
> knowledge. Some of it seems a little warped.
>
I think this was only mentioned in Gaz 3.
- --
Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering
Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu
(1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu
(2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept.
Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely
irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur.
------------------------------
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 01:47:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic form
Rob Rickard pontificated:
> I didnt care for the books at all, and no, I dont think that Thorarinn
> put much time in researching at all. I meet Thorarinn and had him put
> his name in the first of the Chronicles. He was a nice guy and we
> talked alot. I wish that I was able to talk to him after I read it.
>
If you think Dragonlord Trilogy is bad, I guess you never read the
Penhelion Trilogy, huh?
- --
Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering
Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu
(1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu
(2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept.
Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely
irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur.
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 00:49:53 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] When immortals achieved immortality
On Fri, 1 Nov 1996, Shawn wrote:
> So instead here is a list still containing the year the immortal achieved
> immortality but also giving my reasoning for this choice of year. All the data
> has been rechecked as there has proven to be some errors in it. For example
> I got the date in which Alphaks achieved immortality totally wrong which means
> that there is an error in my Gombar and Suma'a timeline. This timeline will
> be updated shortly, though.
I have been starting work on a similar project (just one of the many new
projects I have started to keep me from working on the real projects I
want to do... I know, makes no sense to me either, but there you have it.)
This info you have will help a lot, and I have a bunch of stuff to add.
Some of it conjecture, most of it based on info in other products. I'll
try and add it in here by the end of the weekend, then maybe we can try
to come to a consensus on it all. :)
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 01:05:57 -0700 (MST)
Subject: re: [Mystara] When immortals achieved immortality
On Fri, 1 Nov 1996, Daniel Boese wrote:
> According to WotI...
> "...2000 BC... After a very long time, he attained Immortality. After a
> much longer time, about 200 years ago, he tracked down the descendants of
> the Alphatians, who had fled to Mystara"
> Thus, Alphaks came to the known world around 800 AC.. And gained
> Immortality sometime between 2000 BC and 500 BC or so.
He must have come to Mystara prior to 800 AC. Morphail Gorevitch-Woszlany
is turned into a nosferatu by Alphaks c. 700 AC.
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 01:03:12 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic form
On Fri, 1 Nov 1996, Shin Chyang Yu wrote:
> You sure about that? I don't have my D&D stuff, but I'm pretty sure
> there were only one lawful dragon in the 6 basic type of OD&D dragons,
> the Gold. Come to think of it, I think white was neutral in OD&D.
> With Red, Black, and Green been Chaoic.
Ummm... errr... that wasn't me that said that, really. It was a... err...
a gremlin!! Yeah, that's the ticket. One of those little green guys that
the gnomes hate so much... Yeah. And I'm also married to Morgan
Fairchild... yeah...
You're right. I realized that a minute or so after I typed the message
(when I read someone else's reply- this is why we read all our mail
before replying... oh, yeah?) My mistake... I'll just go and sit over
here in the corner for a while... :(
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 01:00:24 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic form
On Thu, 31 Oct 1996, Rob Rickard wrote:
> I didnt care for the books at all, and no, I dont think that Thorarinn
> put much time in researching at all. I meet Thorarinn and had him put
> his name in the first of the Chronicles. He was a nice guy and we
> talked alot. I wish that I was able to talk to him after I read it.
I don't know, I think he did quite a decent job with his prehistory of
Mystara. I don't particularly care for his presentation of draconic
life/culture, but what can you do? Nor did I think that the stories (I
still haven't picked up DragonMage of Mystara yet) were all that terribly
exciting, but they were generally on par, if not better, than the rest of
the novels TSR puts out nowadays, for any world.
I remember the good old days of TSR novels- the Moonshae trilogy, the
Icewind Dale trilogy (esp. the Crystal Shard)- they used to put out some
pretty decent books back then. I think the novels started really stinking
around the time of the big Drizzt Do'Urden boom. They just started
churning out a bunch of crap (obviously, IMO). I didn't mind the Dark Elf
trilogy- they were pretty good- but the rest of the Drizzt fare really
leaves something to be desired. Most of the Harpers novels stink, and
lets not even mention the Elminster trilogy (I only got the first-
Shadows of something or other? So I can't comment on whether they got any
better, though I doubt they did...)
I finally had enough (though it took me far longer than it should have to
realize the novels weren't getting any better) and I stopped buying most
of the TSR books. I still pick up one here and there, if I read a good
review, but it's rare.
As for the Dragonlord trilogy (to get back on topic), I thought of all
the Mystara books (I haven't read the Red Steel one, or the Dixie McKeone
one, nor do I plan to unless I hear something really good about them...),
I think it was by far the best trilogy, or even single stand alone books,
of the whole Mystara lot.
Ahhh, what do I know, though? ;)
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V1 #274
*****************************
mystara-digest Friday, 1 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 275
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Kostarsus@sagor.prima.ruhr.de (Bernhard Schumacher)
Date: 31 Oct 1996 07:03:00 +0200
Subject: [Mystara] Re: Addition and Subtraction in C
[ Message 553rjc$1rf@solutions.solon.com ]
[ dated 28.10.96 *forwarded* ]
[ originally comp.lang.c.moderated ]
[ from jab@iol.ie (Janus) ]
Gaia dhuit,
bernardd@wr.com.au (Bernard Doyle) dropped 2 cents in the
slot and wrote:
>int a,b;
>
>a = 5;
>b = 34;
>
>a = a + b; // 1
>
>alternatively I could have said:-
>
>a += b; // 2
>
>
>Anyway, my question is.. When the source code is compiled, will, or should
>there be a difference in the code generated by // 1 vis a vis //2 ?
No
>Is there any difference in the efficiency of // 1 versus // 2 in general ?
No
>
>Presumably most experienced C programmers would use version 2 anyway, I
>imagine because it is more concise.
Yes.
> Any other comments ?
>
/* No */
- ---
Janus
jab@iol.ie
http://www.iol.ie/~jab
Gaia leat
## CrossPoint v3.11 ##
------------------------------
From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 07:11:41 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic form
<< Anyway, why would Jaggar's preference for wearing white have anything to
do with the sort of dragon form he takes? (Unless you're going by the
AD&D Glantri boxed set rules, in which case that begs the question- why
doesn't Jaggar look more like a dragon, less like a human? Discuss.) >>
in the AD&D Glantri set
it says by the 3rd circle they wear only clothing that reflects the color
associated
with their chosen dragons
they wont even wear magical clothing if the color doesnt correspond
as for why he doent look more dragon like
i have no idea
------------------------------
From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 07:29:54 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Old Ones
<< *Did* they create the Multiverse?
I'm curious as to where you found this information on them, as all I had
heard was that they were beings a step above Immortals, of unknown age and
origin. Never heard anything about them creating the Multiverse. As a
matter of fact, in the old Gold Immortals set, it is hinted that there is a
power beyond that of the Old Ones... >>
in the gold set it does mention that they created the multiverse
for example
once it says
the immortals think that the old ones made all of this (the multiverse)
they are correct
at another point the book mentions the "experiment"
it says "The barrier will not be removed until this great experiment of the
Old Ones has reached a conclusion..."
<< And if everything else was so "inferior", why would they even bother to
watch these beings or consider them worthy of becoming Old Ones? >>
the one problem with the old ones
is that they cant reproduce
for their race to continue to survive
they need to recruit new ones
as the immortals do to mortals
so they look for the exceptional immortals to join their group
------------------------------
From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 15:20:22 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic form
>If you think Dragonlord Trilogy is bad, I guess you never read the
>Penhelion Trilogy, huh?=20
Hmm, I kind of liked the Penhaligon trilogy, and I=B4ve read all three=
books.
With the Dragonlord Trilogy, I=B4ve only read the first one, and found it=
very
hard reading!
In judging "new" TSR-material on Mystara, I also found the AD&D Glantri-set
not too bad!
=20
***************************************************************************
Peter Balazs
(a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at)
http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
***************************************************************************
------------------------------
From: Rob Rickard <cmnwrld@mhtc.net>
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 10:36:06 -0500
Subject: [Mystara] Chronomancers
what are the chronomancers of Alphatia?
------------------------------
From: Rob Rickard <cmnwrld@mhtc.net>
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 11:18:06 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] When immortals achieved immortality
more gremlins out there.
shawn, Daniel is has a good point. But I like the list, and down loaded
it. Thanx!
------------------------------
From: Rob Rickard <cmnwrld@mhtc.net>
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 11:30:30 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic form
For the life of me I cant find where it said that his form was a white
dragon.
Sob, Sob...I have failed. Maybe Im wrong.
But there is a lot of facts that lead to the color white that has been
posted on this mailing list.
------------------------------
From: Rob Rickard <cmnwrld@mhtc.net>
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 11:40:47 -0500
Subject: [Mystara] Chat Room
Do any of you go to the Mystara Chat Room?
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/6011/
------------------------------
From: Rob Rickard <cmnwrld@mhtc.net>
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 11:04:03 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic form
>If you think Dragonlord Trilogy is bad, I guess you never read the
>Penhelion Trilogy, huh?
Yes I did. I loved the first book. The ending wa good. As the trilogy
went on I woundered just how many gamers were going to convert to other
game systems. Too bad. Great world horrid writers.
Lets call up Weis & Hickman. Or even if Bruce Heard could write
something about the Princess Arkor anything.
------------------------------
From: Rob Rickard <cmnwrld@mhtc.net>
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 11:09:20 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic form
>Ummm... errr... that wasn't me that said that, really. It was a... err...
>a gremlin!! Yeah, that's the ticket. One of those little green guys that
>the gnomes hate so much... Yeah. And I'm also married to Morgan
>Fairchild... yeah...
I hate gremlins, they get me too. :-)
------------------------------
From: Rob Rickard <cmnwrld@mhtc.net>
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 11:37:57 -0500
Subject: [Mystara] Morphail Gorevitch-Woszlany
>Morphail Gorevitch-Woszlany was turned into a nosferatu by Alphaks c. 700 AC.
WOW. I thought Alphaks hated the Glantri peaple as much as his own
Alphatatin race. Why would he help Morphail? Marphail was evil, but
did have a small loyality to his people (vampires) in his land in
Glantri.
Or is it to spread his Curse all through Grantri?!?!?!?
And now who is in charge of Boldavia and the vampires? Is he still?
------------------------------
From: Rob Rickard <cmnwrld@mhtc.net>
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 11:23:51 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Old Ones
>the one problem with the old ones
>is that they cant reproduce
>for their race to continue to survive
>they need to recruit new ones
>as the immortals do to mortals
>so they look for the exceptional immortals to join their group
I picture them not as a race but as ......beings. The 'old ones' have
matured and evolved from Immortality. I feel that they dont even need
each other much less the Immortals.
Just a thought.
------------------------------
From: Mike <MHAMAIDE@flemingc.on.ca>
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:00:26 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mystara] Mystara/books
> If Mystara had writers like the writers for Dragonlace, It would
> of took off like a rocket.
- ---------------------------------
I sort of agree with that. I've read, just a few, of the Dragonlance
novels and trilogies. They could of, perhaps, expanded (In Mystara) on some of
the timeline happenings, with a good chance of having memorable character's.
(Not to condem the books that have already been published)
I'm reminded of a Dragonlance books "The Elven Nation's Trilogy (I think
it was called?)." Perfect example of how The Silvinesti and Qualinesti came
to be. Delved into the history and such.
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:45:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: re: [Mystara] When immortals achieved immortality
> > According to WotI...
> > "...2000 BC... After a very long time, he attained Immortality. After a
> > much longer time, about 200 years ago, he tracked down the descendants of
> > the Alphatians, who had fled to Mystara"
> > Thus, Alphaks came to the known world around 800 AC.. And gained
> > Immortality sometime between 2000 BC and 500 BC or so.
(I meant to type 1000 BC, not 2000 BC, here.)
> He must have come to Mystara prior to 800 AC. Morphail Gorevitch-Woszlany
> is turned into a nosferatu by Alphaks c. 700 AC.
Well, so much for my vaunted omniscience. :)
Here's an idea instead, drawing on the mixed-reviews Dragonlord trilogy
(which I happen to like, myself)..
Alphaks, after attaining Immortality around 750 BC (a random number),
eventually finds the Flaems wandering through various planes. Around 395
AC, he senses the Radiance, and sends them there. Several centuries later,
he realizes that the Alphatians are on the same world as the Flaems..
What do you think?
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: Roundhouse <Roundhouse@mms.net>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:12:17 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Old Ones
CRlPTONITE@aol.com wrote:
>
> << *Did* they create the Multiverse?
> I'm curious as to where you found this information on them, as all I had
> heard was that they were beings a step above Immortals, of unknown age and
> origin. Never heard anything about them creating the Multiverse. As a
> matter of fact, in the old Gold Immortals set, it is hinted that there is a
> power beyond that of the Old Ones... >>
>
> in the gold set it does mention that they created the multiverse
> for example
> once it says
> the immortals think that the old ones made all of this (the multiverse)
> they are correct
> at another point the book mentions the "experiment"
> it says "The barrier will not be removed until this great experiment of the
> Old Ones has reached a conclusion..."
I was playing around with this idea when I began a Ravenloft game where all
the PC's were from Mystara. The idea was that the Old Ones and the Dark
Powers were two sets of "uber-dieties" that were fighting for control of all
planes. They were incapable of harming each other so they created their own
regions to prepare champions to war for them.
The Old Ones created the multiverse and set events into motion there to
create mortals and Immortals for their eventual war with the Dark Powers.
The Dark Powers created the demi-plane of dread os they could create legions
of undead and other evil warriors with the Lords as their armies commanders.
The campaign would have focused on the Dark Powers studying the PC's and
guaging their strength. Eventually the Old Ones would have the PC's go on
quest to cause the entire demi-plane to conjoin with Mystara, landing where
Alphatia used to be. Then the war would begin.
- --
I've done the math and Galileo was wrong. The world doesn't revolve around
the sun, it revolves around me.
Daniel J. Macchia
Roundhouse@mms.net
------------------------------
From: Deathwatch <deathw@dds.nl>
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 20:46:08 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Chronomancers
At 10:36 1-11-96 -0500, you wrote:
>what are the chronomancers of Alphatia?
I think that their are normal Alphatian Chronomancers who were united or
something....
------------------------------
From: Deathwatch <deathw@dds.nl>
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 20:06:01 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Attack Modes
At 15:01 30-10-96 PST, David 'Azure' Leland wrote:
>At 06:25 PM 10/30/96 +0100, you wrote:
>>I just read something about AD&D 1st Edition (or OD&D), and there was an
>>description of a character, but it had something that was called attack
>>modes, what are those?
>
> Probably "Attack Ranks" in reference to high-level demi-humans.
>They can continue to get improved THAC0s even though they stop getting more
>Hit Dice. Hence, the Attack Rank system (a series of letters) is used to
>determine their THAC0 once their Hit Dice max out.
>
>Hope this helps.
Ah yes. Thanks.
------------------------------
From: Deathwatch <deathw@dds.nl>
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 20:05:45 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Attack Modes
At 15:14 30-10-96 -0400, you wrote:
>>I just read something about AD&D 1st Edition (or OD&D), and there was an
>>description of a character, but it had something that was called attack
>>modes, what are those?
>>
>>Bas
>
>If it's from the 1st Edition they're probably Psionic Attack modes.
>
>You can find them, and all other information on Psionics, in the 1st
>Edition Players Handbook, the Complete Book of Psionicists, or in the
>Skills and Powers book. (Going from the oldest to newest rules on
>psionics. Skills and Powers just revamped them, again.)
>
>If it's from OD&D...no clue.
>
>Hope this helps,
>
>-Bob
It are "attack ranks". Hmmm...Could someone explain those?
------------------------------
From: MRRU13B@prodigy.com (MR TIMOTHY M DI BONA)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 13:01:13, -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] angels
>*Did* they create the Multiverse?
yes they did. Check the gold box set.
>And if everything else was so "inferior", why would they even bother
to
>watch these beings or consider them worthy of becoming Old Ones?
>Can an "inferior" ant become a "superior" human? No, obviously.
>Thus the Old Ones would not view the Multiverse as an "ant farm
expirement"
>because it would be an effort in futility to produce new Old Ones.
ant farm was just used to explain what i meant by experiment. The
experiment leads to the creation of new old ones. Obviously, ants
can't become superior humans. However the chances of mere mortals
becoming Old ones one day, are extremely low. It explains this in the
gold set. You must reach Immortality first. Pretty tough right off
the bat. Then you must reach the level of Hiearch, which only 1.5% of
Immortals end up attaining. Then, one of every ten thousand hiearchs
choose to give up thier status to be reborn as a mortal. the new
mortal has no recollection of his former Immortal status. The new
mortal must once again reach immortality, then reach Hiearchy
again!!!!! This gains the attention of the Old Ones, at which time
you are elligible to become an Old One.
If they deem you worthy, a black ball is sent to the Immortal. The
black ball then disintergrates him/her, and there is then a percent
chance to be taken to the court of the Old Ones.
That is the experiment called "the multiverse".
It also says, if any PC accomplishes this task of becoming an old one,
"you have one. the game is over"
Hopefully this more elaborate post will tell you what i meant.
>
>I think anthromorphizing the Old Ones as "big Scientists in the Sky"
is a
>big mistake and a poor representation of the level of mental-
evolution of
>these creatures.
well, actually that's exactly what the old ones are. They are
scientists in the Sky. That's probably the best way to describe them.
- -tim
------------------------------
From: StarHawk <starhawk@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu>
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 15:17:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic form
On Fri, 1 Nov 1996, Rob Rickard wrote:
> For the life of me I cant find where it said that his form was a white
> dragon.
>
> Sob, Sob...I have failed. Maybe Im wrong.
>
> But there is a lot of facts that lead to the color white that has been
> posted on this mailing list.
>
The fact that he wears white could point to three dragon types:
A) White, obviously
B) Crystal, which looks like a white. I doubt he can find crystal
clothing, though it would make an interesting fashion statement.
C) Star. According to WotI Diamond "would appear white except that
[his scales] have the refractive qualities of faceted diamond..."
As far as I can tell in Gaz 3 Jaggar is listed as a Star Dragon, which is
possible for someone of 24+ level who defeats the Dragon Ruler. His
sister is listed as a 2nd circle white. I wonder if Jaggar's abilities
shifted from whatever his old Dragon type was to Star or if he has the
option of becoming either his old type, or a star dragon and his lower
circle abilities remain unchanged, the Gaz doesn't specify.
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 13:55:58 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Chat Room
On Fri, 1 Nov 1996, Rob Rickard wrote:
> Do any of you go to the Mystara Chat Room?
> http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/6011/
What is it like? Details, details! ;)
------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 13:54:42 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Gremlins and Tortles and bears(?), oh my! [Was: , Jaggar's Draconic Form]
On Fri, 1 Nov 1996, Rob Rickard wrote:
> >Ummm... errr... that wasn't me that said that, really. It was a... err...
> >a gremlin!! Yeah, that's the ticket. One of those little green guys that
> >the gnomes hate so much... Yeah. And I'm also married to Morgan
> >Fairchild... yeah...
>
> I hate gremlins, they get me too. :-)
Yeah- and those tortles that run across your keyboard, messing things up.
I know Bruce has had trouble with those. Maybe Gremlins and Tortles are
related, somehow? The more mischievous tortles decided to shed their
shells for ease of movement and turned to malicious practical jokes? Over
time they evolved into the Gremlins of today, and, naturally decided to
annoy the heck out of Gnomes, given the ease of messing up mechanical
devices, and the gnomes' own notorious sense of humor?
Hey... wait a second... who just wrote that? Man, you leave your keyboard
alone for half a second and those darned things are all over the place...
rassimfrassim...
8-)
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V1 #275
*****************************
mystara-digest Saturday, 2 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 276
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 14:16:26 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Old Ones
On Fri, 1 Nov 1996, Rob Rickard wrote:
> I picture them not as a race but as ......beings. The 'old ones' have
> matured and evolved from Immortality. I feel that they dont even need
> each other much less the Immortals.
The only trouble with this, as I see it, though, is that it seems to run
counter to their presentation thus far. First, Frank Mentzer's gold box,
where they are described as running an experiment; setting up the Great
Barrier, in order to test immortals for possible recruitment, among other
things... hmm. Okay, rereading what I just wrote, I suppose it could be
seen that the Old Ones are like the Great Psychologists of the Cosmos,
and everyone else is a bunch of lab rats to them.
Of course, the depiction of the Old One's motives during Wrath, by Aaron
Allston, is one of a more benevolent creator. Rad is punished for his
toying with humanity (in a sense), and Ixion is chastised for his
manipulations as well. When the two presentations are put together, they
seem to be rather benevolent, father figure type beings. (Perhaps a bit
condescending...?)
You make a good point, though. Perhaps that particular Old One was
operating on his own behalf, and his opinions have nothing whatever to do
with the other Old Ones' beliefs.
> Just a thought.
Here's another:
What if the Old Ones are like the Elder/Outer Gods of the Cthulhu mythos?
You could have good old Yog-Sothoth running around out in the cosmos,
Azathoth sitting somewhere beyond the Great Barrier, writhing in its
seeming madness. The Old One who appeared before Rad and Ixion could be
seen as, perhaps, Nodens, or some other seemingly beneficent Elder God.
Nyarlathotep could also be running around somewhere...
Could be an interesting cosmology here... I'll have to give it some thought.
------------------------------
From: TSRBruce@aol.com
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:53:53 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Monoliths of Zul (more Info).
In a message dated 96-11-01 Kstephan/Jsmill wrote:
>> The Monioliths of Zul are located in the unclaimed territories between
>> Robrenn and the Baronies. I don't know more for certain....
>> I saw something about "Free Tortles of Zul".....
>>Perhaps the monoliths of Zul are monuments dedicated to the (fire?)
>>aspect of the old Afridhi god Zugzul. (For those who have no idea what
>>I'm talking about, it's in the DA series. The Afridhi worshipped a god
>>named Zugzul, the One. In DA4 it is revealed that he has two aspects, a
>>fire part- I think that's the Zul, though it could be the Zug- and an ice
>>part- which is whatever the fire part isn't. Helpful, aren't I?)
The monuments of Zul are located on the Savage Coast, near Robrenn
(confirming the above). The idea to link Zul w/Zugzul is an interesting
development. There was no particular plan at the time I penciled the
mysterious *monument* icon on the corresponding Princess Ark map. I had left
this largely up to the readers to adapt to their campaigns, due mostly to the
lack of space to properly treat the topic of the tortles and their spiritual
secrets. Supposedly, the monument of Zul was the remains of some ancient
religious structure long since abandoned by the tortles, save a secret sect.
I was hoping to get around to dealing with the tortles under the later
Grimoire series in DRAGON Magazine, supposedly at the time the Richland would
have been reached. By then, Mystara zigged when I zagged, and the tortles
*zulled* when their civilization *zugged*, and nothing specific was
accomplished. All this to say that the Zul-thing is pretty much to left to
everyone's imagination. I did post a story about adapting to The Bayou a
limited setting inspired from Louisiana -- I think I remember linking that to
a religious tortle movement, for what it's worth. :)
Bruce Heard
------------------------------
From: TSRBruce@aol.com
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:53:56 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic form
Where to start...
In retrospect, Jaggar could have been the ruler of star dragons since he
could take the shape of the Star Dragon, but eventually *abdicated* this perk
for practical and especially moral reasons. Read into this that the ability
to become *the* star dragon was WAY out of proportion with the powers mere
dracologists should be allowed to wield in the game, especially in light of
the decision to make these dragons Immortals. The latter happened after GAZ3
was published.
This is why I later made the amendment re. dracologist in the Mystara
Dragons article in DRAGON Magazine. Considering this, naturally Diamond could
not have been the ruler since a very long time, especially in terms of
draconic history. It's possible Diamond's career as a dragon ruler was simply
*interrupted* by the dracologists' rather tactless approach, something
dragons would have wanted to burry away in a dark pit of their racial
history.
Knowing all this, I would suggest making Jaggar the equivalent of a
gold dragon. Considering his behavior and ensuing reform of the Circle of
Dracologists, I would assume Jaggar is very Lawful (maybe LG in AD&Dese --
somehow the developers of the AD&D version ended up with an evil Jaggar.
That's debatable but not necessarily wrong. Please remember OD&D and AD&D
versions of Mystara shouold be treated separately; they were not meant to
match each other exactly). The favorite color of his clothing really should
not be what determines his chosen dragon form. Alignment should be the
primary factor. He's the Great Kahuna of dracologists, so he ought to be able
to chose what drags to wears. Okay fine -- if you want to stick to mechanical
details, cross off the references to white uniforms (etc), and replace with
that with gold. Of course, he's going to look a bit like Zorro the Gay Blade,
but hey, that's fantasy for you! 8P
Bruce Heard
------------------------------
From: Rob Rickard <cmnwrld@mhtc.net>
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 17:45:02 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Morphail Gorevitch-Woszlany
>>Morphail Gorevitch-Woszlany was turned into a nosferatu by Alphaks c. 700 AC.<<
>WOW. I thought Alphaks hated the Glantri peaple as much as his own
>Alphatatin race. Why would he help Morphail? Marphail was evil, but
>did have a small loyality to his people (vampires) in his land in
>Glantri.
> Or is it to spread his Curse all through Grantri?!?!?!?
>And now who is in charge of Boldavia and the vampires? Is he still?
- -------------------------
OOPS I took this the wrong way. I Need to pay more attion to what Im
doing.
I thought that it said That Morphail was turned into an Immortal.
DA
I didnt know that Alphaks made Morphail A Nosferatu.
Can I blame this on the gremlins?
"no sleep and no beer make Homer go cracy"
------------------------------
From: Patrick <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 23:57:25 +0000
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Morphail Gorevitch-Woszlany
>>Morphail Gorevitch-Woszlany was turned into a nosferatu by Alphaks c. 700 AC.
>
>WOW. I thought Alphaks hated the Glantri peaple as much as his own
>Alphatatin race. Why would he help Morphail? Marphail was evil, but
>did have a small loyality to his people (vampires) in his land in
>Glantri.
> Or is it to spread his Curse all through Grantri?!?!?!?
Alphaks hates his former subjects, both races from the old Alphatian home
world. These are the Alphatians and the Glantrian Flaem. As far as I know,
Alphaks has no particular grudge against Traladarans, including Morphail.
Helping Morphail spread evil throughout Glantri certainly works towards
Alphaks' goal of harming the Alphatians and Flaem in Glantri.
>And now who is in charge of Boldavia and the vampires? Is he still?
As of 1013, Morphail is still in charge. WotI says that Morphail performed
very well in the war with Alphatia, and the PWAs and Joshuan's indicate that
he is very popular in Glantri right now. The AD&D Glantri boxed set gives a
very different description, were Morphail is losing his grasp on Boldavia,
his dream of spreading vampirism through Glantri, and his sanity.
------------------------------
From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 00:51:09 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Old Ones
>The Old Ones created the multiverse and set events into motion there to=20
>create mortals and Immortals for their eventual war with the Dark Powers. =
=20
>The Dark Powers created the demi-plane of dread os they could create=
legions=20
>of undead and other evil warriors with the Lords as their armies=
commanders.
Pfffh, not to bad the idea, so you get the classical Good:Evil on a higher
level, and so you can use some ideas from the Christian Mythology!
But, when the Old Ones have the whole multiverse and the Dark Powers only
ONE demi-plane, how can they succeed?
>The campaign would have focused on the Dark Powers studying the PC's and=20
>guaging their strength. Eventually the Old Ones would have the PC's go on =
=20
>quest to cause the entire demi-plane to conjoin with Mystara, landing where=
=20
>Alphatia used to be. Then the war would begin.
That certainly is an interesting idea. Maybe I=B4ll use it IMC!
***************************************************************************
Peter Balazs
(a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at)
http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
***************************************************************************
------------------------------
From: "Kevin" <kevinaug@ihug.co.nz>
Date: 2 Nov 96 11:58:18 +1300
Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Monoliths of Zul (more Info).
>
>> The Monioliths of Zul are located in the unclaimed territories between
>> Robrenn and the Baronies. I don't know more for certain....
>> I saw something about "Free Tortles of Zul".....
>
Aren't the Monioliths just the remains of cities from the tortle
civilisation, as mentioned in Bruce Heard's posting about posible
adventures around Dunwick. They're just the out-croppings of the long
destroyed cities, sticking above the sand.
------------------------------
From: Estlor <estlor@localhost.geocities.com>
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 23:05:03 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic Form
After sorting through about thirty mails about this topic, I bring up a
point from (Wednesday?). I can't recall off my head wether Jaggar was
printed as evil, but he is/was currently being manipulated by Synn,
which would explain a lot.
- --
Estlor estlor@geocities.com
Mystaran Elven hero (and Admin of the Campaign Page)
Main Page
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/6011/index.html
European Mirror:
http://www.esiee.fr/~musseauh/estlor/index.html
------------------------------
From: Rob Rickard <cmnwrld@mhtc.net>
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 22:22:43 -0500
Subject: [Mystara] the Old Ones
>>*Did* they create the Multiverse?
>yes they did. Check the gold box set.
>If they deem you worthy, a black ball is sent to the Immortal. The
>black ball then disintergrates him/her, and there is then a percent
>chance to be taken to the court of the Old Ones.
(MR TIMOTHY M DI BONA)
- -------------------
wow, I had forgotten about that box set. I had to go and dig that dust
covered text out and read that part again. Its still mint. Not a very
good rule book. Wrath of the Immortals Codex is much better.
Im now playing Pre 'Wrath of the Immortals'. I have read Book two 'The
Immortals' Fury' and my campaign is in the year1003. In the wrap up an
Old One appeared and said "You've failed to understand the nature of
your privilege, Immortals. You should take better care of those from
whom you've risen, and from whom you draw tht which allows you to
exist. Only then will you know who we are"
So I guess the Old Ones know and deeply care about the Immortals adn
Mortals.
In the Gold book it also said that the Black ball went to the Immortal
that reached Immortality and made it to Hierarch status a second time.
It seemed to other immortals as a form of punishment and final
destruction.
So...maybe Rad by going into the "Neucleus" was the Old One granting
him to become an Old One?
Ixon did think later that he was part of the Neucleus.
So mabe I will have to change the way I play the Old Ones. That They do
care (alot) about the Immortals and Immortals.
Thanx guys, it makes my game that much more.
------------------------------
From: Rob Rickard <cmnwrld@mhtc.net>
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 01:06:28 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic Form
>After sorting through about thirty mails about this topic, I bring up a
>point from (Wednesday?). I can't recall off my head wether Jaggar was
>printed as evil, but he is/was currently being manipulated by Synn,
>which would explain a lot.
- -----------------
Synn the night dragon is back? This is AD&D right? What does AD&D have
Synn do to Jaggar?
------------------------------
From: s9406058@student.anu.edu.au (Shawn)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 21:24:14 +1100
Subject: [Mystara] Re: When immortals achieved immortality
>> So instead here is a list still containing the year the immortal achieved
>> immortality but also giving my reasoning for this choice of year. All
>>the data
>> has been rechecked as there has proven to be some errors in it. For example
>> I got the date in which Alphaks achieved immortality totally wrong which
>>means
>> that there is an error in my Gombar and Suma'a timeline. This timeline will
>> be updated shortly, though.
>
>I have been starting work on a similar project (just one of the many new
>projects I have started to keep me from working on the real projects I
>want to do... I know, makes no sense to me either, but there you have it.)
I know what you mean. See furthur down.
>This info you have will help a lot, and I have a bunch of stuff to add.
>Some of it conjecture, most of it based on info in other products. I'll
>try and add it in here by the end of the weekend, then maybe we can try
>to come to a consensus on it all. :)
Cool.
Whilst writing my original post I had the idea to compile a list of all
the immortals and I was sort of wondering if people wanted to post me or this
list those immortals which haven't come out of the woodwork in some time as
it were.
To start this off I'll list some of the ones I was thinking of
There is one immortal mentioned in GAZ9 who is trapped within the elven
artifact thingy. I can't remember the name at the moment but this immortal
is a good example of what I'm talking about.
Other immortals include all the ones sort of mentioned in PC2. Like
Grammatron (who sounds a lot like Noumena to me) and the Immortal who
created the gremlins (could be Loki) and the Immortal who created the
Faenare (possibly Ordana) etc etc.
Anyone interested? Is this the sort of thing you were thinking about
Cthuludrew to be a part of your project?
Shawn Stanley
I am a QHQGMEEEBBGAU Mystaran
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/index.html
------------------------------
From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 12:38:58 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Old Ones
>What if the Old Ones are like the Elder/Outer Gods of the Cthulhu mythos?
>You could have good old Yog-Sothoth running around out in the cosmos,
>Azathoth sitting somewhere beyond the Great Barrier, writhing in its
>seeming madness. The Old One who appeared before Rad and Ixion could be
>seen as, perhaps, Nodens, or some other seemingly beneficent Elder God.
>Nyarlathotep could also be running around somewhere...
Nice idea!
But, what is the Great Barrier?
***************************************************************************
Peter Balazs
(a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at)
http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
***************************************************************************
------------------------------
From: Rob Rickard <cmnwrld@mhtc.net>
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 11:06:14 -0500
Subject: [Mystara] AD&D, oD&D the mix
Is any one having a problem mixing AD&D and oD&D Mystara?
AD&D has seemed to change a bit. Bruce also said that they are two
different games. Why do you think that TSR did the Split?
------------------------------
From: Rob Rickard <cmnwrld@mhtc.net>
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 11:03:07 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Chronomancers
>>what are the chronomancers of Alphatia?
>I think that their are normal Alphatian Chronomancers who were united or
>something....
- -------------
Does anyone know about them or have anyinfo about them? Again AD&D thta
I dont have. I just need to find the books and buy them. NEED
KNOWLEDGE.
------------------------------
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 13:44:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] When immortals achieved immortality
Daniel Boese pontificated:
>
> Alphaks, after attaining Immortality around 750 BC (a random number),
> eventually finds the Flaems wandering through various planes. Around 395
> AC, he senses the Radiance, and sends them there. Several centuries later,
> he realizes that the Alphatians are on the same world as the Flaems..
Doesn't that seems to be a awfully long time for an immortal to figure
out who is living a few thousand miles away?
- --
Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering
Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu
(1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu
(2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept.
Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely
irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur.
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 14:40:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Chronomancers
> >>what are the chronomancers of Alphatia?
> >I think that their are normal Alphatian Chronomancers who were united or
> >something....
> Does anyone know about them or have anyinfo about them? Again AD&D thta
> I dont have. I just need to find the books and buy them. NEED
> KNOWLEDGE.
The first mention of Alphatian Chronomancers was in the (general AD&D)
supplement "Chronomancer", on sale at your local gaming store. The other
mention was in the text file "Chronomancy and the multiverse", parts of
which were posted to this list, on AOL. The text file includes everything
specific to Mystara in the Chronomancy book, but doesn't include any of
the actual rules for chronomancy.
Here's the section about Alphatian chronomancers:
Chronomancy was known to the wizards of Alphatia, but all
Alphatian chronomancers were destroyed by an unknown Immortal
after they attempted to make contact with the long-lost
techno-magical empire of Blackmoor. One investigator of this
disaster believes the Immortals Rafiel and possibly Rad
(a.k.a. Etienne d'Amberville) are defending a pre-historic
secret somehow connected with the Radiance of Glantri.
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
From: David Keyser <davidk@Synopsys.COM>
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 11:43:12 -0800
Subject: [Mystara] Two reasons to buy Dungeon magazine #62
Dungeon mag #62 has hit the stores
There is an adventure that centers around Crystal dragons, which as we all know
originated from Mystara. The adventure is fairly generic, and features
creatures from the Monstrous Compendium Annual #1 as well, so there needs to be
some work to integrate it into Mystara campaigns.
But even better is the adventure compatible with Red Steel campaigns, featuring
monsters from the online Red Steel Monstrous Compendium.
I haven't had a chance to read the adventures yet, but they both look cool,
particularly the Red Steel adventure.
- -------------------------------------
And for other stuff, I know I have left unanswered several posts on various
topics, I will try to answer them when I have time, but I have been very busy.
Two quick answers:
> >> >> > 1150 AC: The deaths of High King Maramet of Vestland
> >> >> >and his sole heir throw the nation into a political turmoil.
> >> >> >The Sorona, the enchanted crown of Vestland, is sought by
> >> >> >various factions hoping to claim the throne.
> >> >> I thought that this event is now officially in the past. Don't the
> >>PWA's say
> >> >> that the current King of Vestland, Harald Gudmundson I think it is, was
> >> >> King Maramets' heir in the module X13, I can't remember what his name was.
> >> >> What is the "official-net-word" on this then?
> Has a verdict been reached on this yet?
> Well, not in particular.. Perhaps the 1150 date is now also an "alternate
>future", similar to the 1200 AC Great War?
In PWA I, 1010 AC, under the Kingdom of Vestland, it notes that the ruler of
Vestland, who has been in power for 35 years, was known by another name and had
been living in obscurity before he became king. The details matched module
X13, so this would put X13 into play about 975 AC.
- ---------------------------------
Alad3 wrote:
>>video
>>games
>Were there any historical dates in the VGs?
No, except that the second game takes place two years after the first one, and
the second one features Aengmoor and the shadow elves within Darokin. Because
the events are fairly significant, and not mentioned in the Almanacs, I figured
1014AC and 1016AC would be good dates.
Both games treat shadow elves more like drow than shadow elves, but this could
be explained as these elves being followers of Atzanteotl.
Dave Keyser
------------------------------
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 16:40:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] When immortals achieved immortality
> > Alphaks, after attaining Immortality around 750 BC (a random number),
> > eventually finds the Flaems wandering through various planes. Around 395
> > AC, he senses the Radiance, and sends them there. Several centuries later,
> > he realizes that the Alphatians are on the same world as the Flaems..
> Doesn't that seems to be a awfully long time for an immortal to figure
> out who is living a few thousand miles away?
That's the main problem I saw with it myself. However, Alphaks has never
been portrayed as especially bright.. :)
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V1 #276
*****************************
mystara-digest Sunday, 3 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 277
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Estlor <estlor@geocities.com>
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 21:23:49 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Old Ones
> But, what is the Great Barrier?
>
>
Well, in the old gold box Immortal rules it was the Vortex Dimension
that was created to keep the Immortals from heading to the sixth and
higher dimensions. In the newer Codex it still is the Vortex Dimension,
its just that the area it protects doesn't take that whole length,
width, height and so on stuff into play.
- --
Estlor estlor@geocities.com
------------------------------
From: Estlor <estlor@geocities.com>
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 21:18:49 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Jaggar's Draconic Form
>
> Synn the night dragon is back? This is AD&D right? What does AD&D have
> Synn do to Jaggar?
Well, actually, she just manipulates him into looking the other way with
the humanoid attacks on Erewan as well as support the foundation of New
Kolland. Synn was basically sent to plant seeds of chaos in Glantri and
she was doing a good job (but some timelines thrown around have that
ending app 1014 AC).
- --
Estlor estlor@geocities.com
------------------------------
From: Estlor <estlor@geocities.com>
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 21:34:23 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] AD&D, oD&D the mix
> Is any one having a problem mixing AD&D and oD&D Mystara?
>
> AD&D has seemed to change a bit. Bruce also said that they are two
> different games. Why do you think that TSR did the Split?
Well, technically they are two different games. There is an attempt at
continuity between the two systems, but some glitches come along the
way.
I think that the material in the back of the Rules Cyclopedia is a big
help to a DM running AD&D Mystara off of oD&D books. Also, for things
like the WotI books, you can sometimes just take it as it shows. The
adventure can be run as is (assuming you have the Monstrous Compendium
Appendix to give you the AD&D stats for monsters in there), and since
Immortality is largely undefined, the DM can basically have it their way
(some tweaking would be needed for using the rules, but not much).
As for a DM running oD&D from AD&D books:
Personally, I haven't heard of anyone doing this, but there should be
plenty of oD&D material to suffice, and when that runs dry there is
always the imagination of the DM to hold out.
- --
Estlor estlor@geocities.com
------------------------------
From: Deathwatch <deathw@dds.nl>
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 23:42:18 +0100
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Chronomancers
At 11:03 2-11-96 -0500, you wrote:
>>>what are the chronomancers of Alphatia?
>
>>I think that their are normal Alphatian Chronomancers who were united or
>>something....
>
>-------------
>
>Does anyone know about them or have anyinfo about them? Again AD&D thta
>I dont have. I just need to find the books and buy them. NEED
>KNOWLEDGE.
Well...about the Alphatian? No...I think that what you just said is most of
it...wait..I'll check my chronomancers book...
Nothing about the chronomancers, except that they were destroyed by an
unknown immortal when they attempted to contact Blackmoor.
There are no "Guardians" (Chronomancers that are a kind of repairmen and cops).
------------------------------
From: Dave Brohman <dbrohman@chat.carleton.ca>
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 96 0:11:33 EST
Subject: [Mystara] Alignment Priests
One of the PC's in my campaign is a Lawful Good philosopher priest. This
has raised a few questions.
1) Where does the character's spell casting power come from?
2) What are the character's granted powers?
3) What Priestly Function or ceremonies can teh PC perform?
Any advice would be appreciated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Brohman E-Mail : dbrohman@chat.carleton.ca
Carleton University
Featuring Alexi Sayle as the Balowski Family.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 17:18:23 -0500
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Old Ones (The Barrier&Dimensional Vortex)
<< Nice idea!
But, what is the Great Barrier? >>
the barrier is what separates the Immortals from the old ones
its explained like this
we (mortals) can perceive 3 dimensions, its possible to see the 4th
immortals can perceive 4 dimensions, its possible to see the 5th
the Old Ones went into the 6th dimension and created a wall
between themselves and the rest of existance (the Barrier)
this was done so the immortals could concentrate their efforts on
learning about the multiverse
when an immortal tries to pass beyond the 1st 5 dimensions
they end up in the Dimensional Vortex
its thought to be a whirlpool of ether of infinate size
some immortals are known to be trapped in the whirpool
other immortals believe them to be missing and unrecoverable
all their attempts to learn more about the vortex have failed
the vortex bred new life though
theyre called the Nightmare creatures
and the immortals are studing them now
there are also the vortex creatures which include the blackball
they pass in and out of the vortex
immortals believe them to be servants of the Old Ones
------------------------------
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:11:10 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] When immortals achieved immortality
Daniel Boese pontificated:
> That's the main problem I saw with it myself. However, Alphaks has never
> been portrayed as especially bright.. :)
ROTFL! Actually, Alphak should be a pretty smart guy, he was the ruler
of the Alphatian before they came to Mystara. But after changing into
demon (or what ever it is called by TSR now), does seems to dumb him
up a bit. Seriously thou, how about this explaination. Perhaps
Morphail was turned into a vampire when he bumped into Alphak in
some outer plane, while doing those quest for power that high level
mages like to do. Alphak turned him into a vampire but didn't really
care where he came from, and it wasn't until few hundred years later
that Alphak bother to check up on his little pawn on Mystara when he
realize he has more interst in this world than he knew before.
- --
Problem 7-11 of Fogler's Elements of Chemical Reaction Engineering
Consider the following 2 reactions: | John Yu
(1) healthy person ---> ill | scy2g@virginia.edu
(2) ill ---> death | UVA Material Science Dept.
Although reaction given in equation 2 is normally consider completely
irreversible, reverse reaction has been reported to occur.
------------------------------
From: - <kstephan@online.no>
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 02:52:17 +-100
Subject: [none]
- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBC932.9D741980
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Here is a Monter Recording Sheet........
Players Option Player record Sheets.......
NPC Sheets......
Magical Weapon Sheets......
and Spell Sheets.
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From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 13:32:53 1996
Return-Path: <owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com>
Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4)
id BAA00404; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 01:18:54 +1100
From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA01789 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 07:41:52 -0600
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 07:41:52 -0600
Message-Id: <199611031341.HAA01789@lists.io.com>
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V1 #277
Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com
Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Precedence: bulk
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From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 13:32:53 1996
Return-Path: <owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com>
Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4)
id BAA00404; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 01:18:54 +1100
From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA01789 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 07:41:52 -0600
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 07:41:52 -0600
Message-Id: <199611031341.HAA01789@lists.io.com>
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V1 #277
Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com
Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com
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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBC932.9D741980--
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V1 #277
*****************************
mystara-digest Sunday, 3 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 278
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: - <kstephan@online.no>
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 03:00:08 +-100
Subject: [Mystara] Sheets!
- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBC933.21E213C0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Here is a Monter Recording Sheet........
Players Option Player record Sheets.......
NPC Sheets......
Magical Weapon Sheets......
and Spell Sheets.
- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBC933.21E213C0
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="MMSHEET.doc"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////c
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From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 13:32:40 1996
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id BAA29833; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 01:07:47 +1100
From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA01801 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 07:48:49 -0600
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 07:48:49 -0600
Message-Id: <199611031348.HAA01801@lists.io.com>
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V1 #278
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From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 13:32:40 1996
Return-Path: <owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com>
Received: from lists.io.com by student.anu.edu.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4)
id BAA29833; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 01:07:47 +1100
From: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Received: (from root@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA01801 for mystara-digest-outgoing; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 07:48:49 -0600
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 07:48:49 -0600
Message-Id: <199611031348.HAA01801@lists.io.com>
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V1 #278
Reply-To: mystara@lists.io.com
Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@lists.io.com
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End of mystara-digest V1 #278
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