From: owner-mystara-digest@ (mystara-digest)
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #121
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mystara-digest Thursday, August 7 1997 Volume 02 : Number 121
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:28:52 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupin
At 10.50 31/07/97 -0400, John Yu wrote:
>> BTW I'm in the process of switching screen names. I am more increasingly
>> using Ambreville@AOL.com now, although the TSR Bruce account will stay
active
>> until the end of August. Ambreville is already susbribed to Mystara-L. :)
>
>We have an immortal among us!
Maybe two. I've just taken an e-mail address at Geocities:
rafiel@geocities.com :)
- --------------
Fabrizio Paoli
brizio@lunet.it
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
- --------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:52:41 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupin
On Thu, 31 Jul 1997, Fabrizio Paoli wrote:
> Maybe two. I've just taken an e-mail address at Geocities:
> rafiel@geocities.com :)
Hey! What about me? I may be dead at the moment, but "In strange aeons,
even the dead may rise".
Cthulhu Phtargn something something R'lyeh... :)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 22:38:50 -0700
From: "Leroy Van Camp III" <malacoda@lesbois.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupin
Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One insanely whispered...
> On Thu, 31 Jul 1997, Fabrizio Paoli wrote:
>
> > Maybe two. I've just taken an e-mail address at Geocities:
> > rafiel@geocities.com :)
>
> Hey! What about me? I may be dead at the moment, but "In strange
aeons,
> even the dead may rise".
"That is not dead which can eternal lie,
and with strange aoens even death may die."
> Cthulhu Phtargn something something R'lyeh... :)
"Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wagh'nagl fhtagn"
"In his house in R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming"
Every once in a while I have to let the Mythos fan that
dwells in the dark recesses of my misbegotten soul out to play. :)
Leroy Van Camp III
malacoda@lesbois.com
owner-mystara-l@io.com
"You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle."
MST3K
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 00:19:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupin
I finally got a copy of the latest _Dragon_ magazine and I must say that it
was everything that I was led to believe it would be given the reviews I had
heard about it as well as the reputation of the author. Once again Bruce
Heard has demonstrated the qualities that so impressed me about the
Princess Ark series -- in a handful of pages he packed in more great
gaming information than is contained in many modules and boxed sets.
For example, the "Lupins" article compares favorably in scope with the
"Complete Handbook" series. Now if Bruce is willing to do similar articles
on other Mystaran races (with Rakasta being the obvious follow-up), then
I will be eagerly looking forward to these articles.
However, I do have a few comments:
1) For the next article, get a typesetter who can line those columns up
correctly. It is most distracting to have to refer to a set of errata
elsewhere
to make sense of the level limit tables.
2) I liked the way strength is considered in height and weight calculations
- --
but the random factor should not have been eliminated together. It is a more
elegant system than was proposed in an earlier issue of Dragon magazine
(issue 90 or so, as I recall), but it would be nice if it were extended to
all
races and that random factor were added. Maybe I should assemble such
a system....
3) Finally, a set of _Player's Option_ characteristics for mongrel Lupins
could be defined. Each "breed" of Lupin would be a standard expenditure
of the points allocated to the Lupin race -- for a mongrel, the player could
choose freely from among all available options. I would imagine that the
possibilities could get quite interesting. (As though the standard
possibilities
given in the article were not interesting enough!)
4) Finally, I have a recommendation for a product. Over the years Bruce
Heard has created a number of unique Mystaran races, most of which
were originally described in the Princess Ark series. At some point
TSR/WotC should assemble and sell a reprint of this material -- I would
gladly buy it if I hadn't saved the magazines containing the original
articles. In fact, I might buy it anyway just to have all of the material in
one place.
Again, that "Lupins" article is definitely up to Bruce's usual high
standards!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 23:01:03 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupin
On Fri, 1 Aug 1997 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote:
> 4) Finally, I have a recommendation for a product. Over the years Bruce
> Heard has created a number of unique Mystaran races, most of which
> were originally described in the Princess Ark series. At some point
> TSR/WotC should assemble and sell a reprint of this material -- I would
> gladly buy it if I hadn't saved the magazines containing the original
> articles. In fact, I might buy it anyway just to have all of the material in
> one place.
Let's call it, "The Book of Bruce". :)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 22:59:28 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupin
On Thu, 31 Jul 1997, Leroy Van Camp III wrote:
> Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One insanely whispered...
> >
> > Hey! What about me? I may be dead at the moment, but "In strange
> aeons, even the dead may rise".
>
> "That is not dead which can eternal lie,
> and with strange aoens even death may die."
:p
Umm... would you believe Lovecraft got it wrong? Really...
> > Cthulhu Phtargn something something R'lyeh... :)
>
> "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wagh'nagl fhtagn"
>
> "In his house in R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming"
>
> Every once in a while I have to let the Mythos fan that
> dwells in the dark recesses of my misbegotten soul out to play. :)
Not on my watch, pal! I've got your number... if I ever get out of this
darned ocean... :)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 16:01:03 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupin
Dragon #237 reached Italy too! I got my copy this morning.
Great work Bruce, thanks for the Xoloitzcuintli (or Cimarron Hairless) that
I'll use immediately in my Shadow Elves campaign.
I'm eager to see something like that about rakastas, or tortles... :)
Now a question. There're 8 pictures of lupins in your articles, which kind
of lupin do they represent? I've already figured out a couple of them, the
Nithian and Slagovich ones.
Bye.
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com
DM in City Of The Stars - PC in the Forgotten Realms
Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 13:09:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ambreville@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortals R Us
In a message dated 97-08-01 08:44:35 EDT, you write:
<< Maybe two. I've just taken an e-mail address at Geocities:
rafiel@geocities.com :) >>
I am truly please to meet again, Rafiel! Now, who's taking up the Ixion
screen name? :)
Bruce Heard
Mostly Ambreville@AOL.com
Still somewhat TSRBruce@AOL.com, but soon to be a free man
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 13:14:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ambreville@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupin
In a message dated 97-08-01 09:53:26 EDT, you write:
<< Hey! What about me? I may be dead at the moment, but "In strange aeons,
even the dead may rise".
Cthulhu Phtargn something something R'lyeh... :) >>
What say the Sires Rafiel, Cthulhu, and Ambreville get together and do
dinner! The question is -- what's on the menu?
Bruce Heard
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 13:17:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ambreville@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupin
In a message dated 97-08-01 01:51:46 EDT, Kaviyd writes:
<< I finally got a copy of the latest _Dragon_ magazine and I must say that
it
was everything that I was led to believe it would be given the reviews I had
heard about it as well as the reputation of the author. >>
Thanks! T'was a dirty job, but someone had to do it! :)
<<1) For the next article, get a typesetter who can line those columns up
correctly. It is most distracting to have to refer to a set of errata
elsewhere to make sense of the level limit tables.>>
Agreed. And all my foreign accents seemed to have vanished or gotten replaced
with other characters. Sigh.
<<2) I liked the way strength is considered in height and weight calculations
- -- but the random factor should not have been eliminated together.>>
Sure. Things can get complicated after a point. I suggest you roll 1d10. This
gives you a percentage over or under listed size. Odd it's low, even, it's
high. How's that?
Feel free to add more comments -- I'll see what I can use for rakastas later
on.
Bruce Heard
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 14:10:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortals R Us
>In a message dated 97-08-01 08:44:35 EDT, Ambreville writes:
><< Maybe two. I've just taken an e-mail address at Geocities:
> rafiel@geocities.com :) >>
>I am truly please to meet again, Rafiel! Now, who's taking up the Ixion
>screen name? :)
I might as well point out that I can be reached at the address
<mrikitat@warren.kill.com>... Just call be "Big Boss Rat". ;)
Now then, who wants to mention Pandius?
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 12:02:12 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupin
On Fri, 1 Aug 1997 Ambreville@aol.com wrote:
> Feel free to add more comments -- I'll see what I can use for rakastas later
> on.
I've got a list of about 15 types of wild cats from the SE Asia area on
which to base Rakasta from Patera at the moment... still hammering out a
preliminary timeline for that satellite as well.
If I ever organize all my myriad notes, I'll certainly post them here for
everyone's perusal. :)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 19:35:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ambyrus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupin
In a message dated 97-08-01 14:46:42 EDT, you write:
<< What say the Sires Rafiel, Cthulhu, and Ambreville get together and do
dinner! The question is -- what's on the menu? >>
Shoggoth patee-- hehehe
- -Ambyrus
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 20:18:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ambreville@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupin
In a message dated 97-08-01 18:53:05 EDT, Fabrizio writes:
<< Now a question. There're 8 pictures of lupins in your articles, which kind
of lupin do they represent? I've already figured out a couple of them, the
Nithian and Slagovich ones. >>
Page 70 -- Bouchon holding wine gobelet (still full, amazing!)
Page 75 -- (left) Blue Bandit with nice ring (don't know whose)
Page 75 -- (right) Borzoi with pipe and walking stick (walking???)
Page 78 -- (left) Maremma with sword (and a proud demeanor)
Page 78 -- (right) Nithian Rambler with evil intention (although a serene
one)
Page 79 -- Ochalean Crested with scroll (and a wild expression)
Page 80 -- (left) Slagovici Gonic (should have an upside down ^ accent over
both c's)
and with a spark in his eyes :)
Page 80 -- (right) Shar-Pei with pole arm (okay, it looks like a spear)
Arf!
Bruce Heard
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 00:31:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mystaros@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupin
In a message dated 97-08-01 08:44:35 EDT, you write:
<< At 10.50 31/07/97 -0400, John Yu wrote:
>We have an immortal among us!
Maybe two. I've just taken an e-mail address at Geocities:
rafiel@geocities.com :)
--------------
Fabrizio Paoli >>
Hey, don't forget me!!! I may not be an Immortal, but I am on par with a few
of those self-appointed guardians (well, an Initiate or three, at least).
Being a Demiurge is no laughing matter, after all...
Mystaros, Demiurge and Guardian* of Mystara
* Appointed by Mother Mystara herself (no relation to Mystra of the Dimension
of the Wheel, by the by, though a common mistake). And she's not too pleased,
I must note, about all the speculation over what she wears 'neath her skirt!
Just because she gets in touch with her masculine side once in a while
doesn't mean she isn't all woman... :)
M...
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 00:30:18 +0100
From: Thorfinn Tait <Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk>
Subject: [Mystara] D&D Alignment Project
Hi everyone,
Diego Calugi and I have decided to carry forward the proposal I made
regarding NPC personality profiling, beginning off the list and
hopefully getting some list participation in about a month's time.
The plan thus far is (1) to assemble a list of traits from which to
choose descriptions of NPCs, based on the GAZ7 system, the MERP system
and any other systems we can find, and (2) to prepare a schedule for
discussion of individual NPCs on the list.
(1) is half done already, but we are a little short on source material.
If anyone has a personality trait or alignment system other than those
mentioned above and Jenni's questions, such as Pendragon which was
mentioned before on the list, could they please contact me? It would be
very helpful if some kind soul could type up the trait lists or the
system, or at least the gist of it, and send it to me.
We will post our draft list/system to the list sometime near the end of
August/beginning of September.
(2) will involve some preliminary discussions for each character in
order to establish a proposal to be posted to the list for discussion.
Currently it is just myself and Diego that will be doing this, but any
and all others would be welcome to contribute. (We have already
realised that certain peoples will probably be interested in
participating once we get to their favourite NPCs - if you want to do
this, just mail me. I already know of some of you who I will be
contacting when the time comes. :-)
In any case, the first characters discussed will be from Karameikos
(GAZ1/K:KoA), and will likely begin with two of the earliest (and
hopefully most universally well-known) characters.
If anyone is wondering what all this is about (and has read down this
far...), we are hoping to define the personalities of a great many NPCs
a bit better in order to help DMs (like ourselves) and to clear up some
of the confusion caused by the shift from D&D to AD&D alignments. It
need not be, and will not be, a contradiction of the alignment rules,
and should be quite helpful to all DMs, not just those who don't like
the current alignment positions.
Anyway, if anyone wants to know more or to help, please feel free to
contact me.
Thorf.
=========================================
"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."
- Bilbo Baggins, "The Lord of the Rings"
Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk
Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline
=========================================
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 07:00:27 +0100
From: Thorfinn Tait <Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Anachronism
Thanks for copying it for me. I had missed this bit in my first run
through Champions of Mystara...
<snip>
>I hope this helps you!
Yes, thanks - now all I need to do is get hold of those modules... ;-)
>BTW I'd love to see you timeline project posted...
Well, it is currently approximately a quarter of the way through GAZ7.
It's going pretty slowly because I have to read most of the text in
order to catch all of the little references, plus I don't have much time
for it right now. But there is a copy of it on my website
(www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/1413) that includes everything
from GAZ1 to GAZ6, plus all of the actual timeline text (ie stuff from
the dated summary sections) from most of the other sources. It isn't
formatted at all, so right now it would be better to go for Daniel
Boese's timeline (which is on quite a few different sites), which is
very good.
In any case, you need not worry, I will certainly tell you all when I'm
finished (or nearly finished and needing some proof-reading ;-) and
maybe even post it to the list in short installments too.
Thorf.
=========================================
"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."
- Bilbo Baggins, "The Lord of the Rings"
Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk
Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline
=========================================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 16:08:38 -0230 (NDT)
From: Mark McDonald <mmcdonld@kelvin.physics.mun.ca>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: My name is not Mystara but Urt
On Wed, 30 Jul 1997, Diego Calugi wrote:
> That's what I'm trying to do. I want to write the plot and the basic
> facts for an high-level adventure about megalith.
> The main feature of the module is a bitter quarrel which arose between
> immortals after the discovery of megalith in an outer plane who had
> reached a mental unity with its inhabitants.
> IMO this idea is quite good, but I haven't planned very well yet how the
> various sphere of power will react to this new world. This is what I've
> written so far; I'd love to hear your ideas...
>
> THOUGHT: They want to study the phenomenon to acquire as much
> information as possible.
> MATTER: The mental unity between life forms and objects cause a loss of
> control on matter. This means that Gaia must be destroyed before it
> becomes too big a problem.
> ENERGY: They are interested in the potentialities of a life force formed
> by millions of smaller life forces.
> TIME: This mental unity could lead to a total lack of change: the loss
> of personal ambitions and motivations will lead to an inevitable
> steadiness of ideas which will come to an everlasting stability.
> ENTROPY: They are interested in a world which thinks as an unique brain:
> what would happen if that brain is an evil one???
>
> OLD ONES: They could be interested in Gaia as a way of preserving lifes
> in the multiverse.
>
> GAIA: It's intrested in spreading its mental control... Gaia loves the
> idea of a "multiverse-wide" mental unity!
>
> -Diego
>
Sorry about the delay in replying, I've been busy.
OK, you've obviously been putting much more thought into this than I
have. What you've put together here sounds really good for an Immortals'
level campaign. What did you have in mind for an assumedly masters'
level campaign, also assuming your characters aren't interacting with the
Immortals themselves? As I mentioned, I would probably set this up on
some derivative of the Prime plane or maybe just another planet
(megalith) altogether. The PC's get sent there, wander there, or
purposely go exploring there, and find out that this whole planet is a
single entity. At first it seems pretty cool, and if you have a real
bunch of intellectuals in your party it's just interesting for them to
ask a lot of questions (so be prepared to answer!). After a while, they
decide to leave... and find out that the Megalith wants to "assimilate"
them. How forceful the Megalith is would determine the tone of the
adventure. For instance, lots of pretty "Gaia-Gals" trying to lure the
PC's in is considerably different from the planet itself spewing molten
megalith while the PC's fight legions of Megalith/Borg berserkers.
Anyway, that's just off the top of my head. If you go ahead with this
module, let me know how it goes.
Mark McDonald
mmcdonld@kelvin.physics.mun.ca
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 11:04:49 PDT
From: "Jennifer Favia" <valerya@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Mystara] Some Thoughts on Hule by Valerya
- --====================987654321_0==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi...Here is something I've been working on...Please let me know what
you think...Of course, i always love to get new info, so if you have
anything, send away!
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- --====================987654321_0==_
Content-Type: text/plain; name="HULEPOST.txt"
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="HULEPOST.txt"
SOME THOUGHTS ON HULE
As many of you already know, I've been working a lot lately on both Alphatian and Hulean history, trying to fill in the gaps, etc. Well, I had some ideas, and I've done a little homework, and I'd appreciate any feedback or additional information that anyone cares to give:) And (you know the line) I'll get back to you as soon as I can get to a computer. (Sorry about any typos!:)
A while back, Glenn Butcher ("knight") posted "The Hule Gazetteer," which did an excellent job of compiling all the canon info on Hule. I got to wondering, as I do, "where" exactly is it that Hule corresponds to in the RW. So I did some digging, and I came up with a few clues, all of which point to a very interesting place:
1.) Janissaries. Janissaries (Hulean cavalry) were an elite corps of young Christians recruited into the army of the Ottoman Empire under the devshirme system (recruiting young Christians to Islam) of the late 15th century.
2.) Desert Nomad Warriors. The Seljuks (pre-Ottoman Turkish dynasty, 11th-13th centuries) relied on an army of nomadic warriors until the development of armies of slaves (mamelukes) in the early 12th.
3.) A Highly Intricate Bureaucracy. Another Seljuk development, one which lasted into the Ottoman years and the Turkish Republic (modern).
4.) A Huge Inland "Lake" Surrounded by Dense Forest / The Black Mountains / Flora and Fauna. The Black Sea coast is the most densely forested region in Turkey, with both coniferous and deciduous trees. Much of the south, west, and northwest is covered by Mediterranean vegetation of thick, scrubby underbrush. Animal life is extremely diverse. The eastern highlands are dotted with peaks reaching elevations of 3,000-4,500 m (10,000-15,000 ft), including the highest, Mount Ararat (16,804ft) in the extreme east. The Pontic and Taurus chains are also important.
5.) Approximate Size. Hule: 256,000 sq mi; Turkey: 300,000 sq mi.
6.) Nearly Unchecked Expansion. Within a century of its founding (Osman I, 13th century), the Ottoman Empire comprised territory from the Danube to the Euphrates, including Greece. In 1453, Mehmed II conquered Constantinople, the last Byzantine stronghold. (It was Mehmed who founded the Janissaries). Suleiman I (16th century) took Iraq, Hungary, and Albania and established Ottoman naval supremacy in the Meditarranean.
7.) Nomenclature. The Byzantine Empire was a continuation of the Roman Empire which--converted to Christianity and using Greek as its principal language but Latin for most of its nomenclature--wasn't fully conquered by the Ottomans until 1453. So we're looking for Thyatian- or Traldar-style names here . . . how's "Hosadus"? (compare to Heraclius, Photius, Comnenus, Pontus . . . all BYZANTINE names, not Roman). Furthermore, what of the name "Bozdogan"? He is, after all, a Hulean version of "Loki." Because of the consonants, my first thought was perhaps Assyria or Babylonia, but that didn't quite pan out (see some thoughts on them, below). Then guess what? . . . I found out that the first people to unify Anatolia (ancient Asiatic Turkey) were the Hittites, an Indo-European confederation that subdued the kingdoms of the central plateau about 1750 BCE. Their capital was called BOGAZKOY (Hattusa). Well, that convinced me. (This also fits with the almost-but-not-quite Cent!
ral European feel of many of the town names).
So what does this all mean? After all, it's just a little here and a little there, from the same place but in different time periods. Yeah, but I think it fits, if in a vague way. After all, isn't it apparent that Thyatis is modeled on Rome, although it certainly doesn't fit any set time period? So I think I have a "hit" as far as "where" is concerned. That should help fill in the cultural questions, with a little more research.
My second question was "Where in the KW?" That is, where did these Huleans come from? Glenn writes in his Gazetteer that "Much of Hule's history is shrouded in mystery. According to the teachings of the holy men, Hule was founded by human followers of the Immortal Bozdogan sometime before 1500 BC." Okay, so where did they come from? Well, relating them once again to the Byzantines, who came from Rome, I began to wonder if they weren't a reflection of that. But the time is way too early for Thyatis, so no easy answer there. Once more, I hit my resources (the KW ones this time). So what do we know?
1.) A great number of changes occurred between 1750-1500 BC: The human tribes along the River Nithia progress from Bronze Age to Iron Age technology. The Second Cataclysm irrevocably changes the shape of the continent of Brun. King Loark's Great Horde sweeps southward, ravaging Antalian Norwold and the modern Heldannic Territories.
2.) Nithian culture begins its climb to greatness in 1500 BC. The Traldar settle modern Karameikos and Darokin then.
3.) Bozdogan was Loki, a fire-mage in one of the Antalian tribes in what became the Northern Reaches. He was corrupted by Thanatos, and achieved Immortality in the Sphere of Entropy, betraying Rathanos, although he never allied himself with Thanatos again (or anyone else, for that matter). He had very few followers in the Northern Reaches, the Isle of Dawn, and the HW, but he has found his empire in Hule, where he has found a way to gain power directly from his followers' treachery and deceit. In order for him to have been sponsored by Rathanos in the first place, he must have had some contact with the budding Nithian Empire, as Rathanos was by then one of theirs (he was originally Oltec).
4.) Someone else (www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/, though I keep forgetting to look it back up to see who you are--sorry!:) wrote that by 1000 BC the Nithians had explored the ruins of Blackmoor and travelled the world . . . That kind of adventuring spirit doesn't just spring up out of nowhere. Someone long before then must have thought of just striking out to see what he could see, even before the Traldar settlement.
5.) Fabrizio Paoli has identified 4 main languages in Mystara: Oltec/Azcan, Tanagoro, Neathar, and Nithian. He lists Hulean as a separate language, but neglects to say where the heck it came from (please mail me, Fabrizio, if you're reading this!:). My guess is that it's descended from Neathar through Antalian (hence the initial relation to Thyatian), with perhaps some Nithian influence. Any additional Thyatian-type influence comes from contact with Slag. So, going by that, Huleans are Nithian/Antalian descendants of some sort.
So how's this?: Loki, tired of competing with the growing Nithian Immortals, not to mention Thanatos, for followers, convinces his followers to strike out looking for a new home, a "holy land," sometime just before 1500 BC, as they are already struggling with endless humanoid raids, Nithian expansion, and whatever remains of the fallout from the "Elven Cataclysm." The group of pilgrims consists of both Antalian and a few Nithian followers. They set out, heading west. Along the way they pick up a few more Nithian-descended believers (maybe of the migrating Traldar), and perhaps just a few Sindhi/Atruaghins and a great deal of desert nomads. This motley group settled in the area west of the treacherous Black Mountains and built their holy land. As with the Alphatian-Cypric civilization, sometimes the lesser influences the greater: although there were more Antalian pilgrims than any other group, the pilgrims assimilated the Nithian/Traldar culture enough over time that it be!
came dominant (the Byzantines becoming more "Greek" than "Roman," if you will). Of course, Hule developed its own, unique society and traditions, owing to religious influence.
What do "y'all" think? Plausible? I have two big catches, though: Where does the name "Hule" come from? And how do you think Bozdogan (affectionately, "Bozie") got that name, precisely?
Well, there it is. FEEDBACK, PLEASE!!!!!
Oh, here's that thought I promised on the Assyrian/Babylonian/Sumerian/Mesopotamian thing: Is that winged human-bull on the cover of the DoE Book Three ("Player's Guide to Alphatia") meant to be representative of Alphatia, the way the eagle is of Thyatis? If so, hmm. . . That is distinctly Babylonian. Also, in my research, I found that the Babylonians borrowed an old Mesopotamian custom of naming their children according to what they thought he or she would grow up to be, or according to an augury. SOUND FAMILIAR? (BTW, my "anonymous" source, in his "On the Imperial Period of Taymoran Culture," says "As the Nithians are to the RW's Ancient Egyptians, so are the Taymorans to the RW's Sumerian/Babylonian/Assyrian/Mesopotamian cultures." Could this have later slightly influenced the Alphatians, via Nithia, and added to their culture?) Just a thought . . .
Anyway, I'm looking forward to hearing from anyone who's interested, with feedback, comments, jeers (!), etc. I'll incorporate all the ideas and maybe do a pre-Hosadus timeline. Till then . . .
Sources: "Ancient Anatolia": (http://www.turkishnews.com/DiscoverTurkey/anatolia/history.html);
"The Hule Gazetteer, 1013 AC ver 1.0" by Glenn Butcher ("knight"): (http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/ knight/mystara/hule);
"Languages of Mystara," by Fabrizio Paoli ("DM in the City of the Stars"): (care of "knight's" page, above);
"On the Imperial Period of the Taymoran Culture," "Tale of the Classical Hattians," and "The Thanegioth Archipelago," by "My Anonymous Friend": (http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/);
TSR Dawn of the Emperors Boxed Set; Hollow World Boxed Set; PWA III.
Jennifer Favia
("Valerya")
valerya@hotmail.com
- --====================987654321_0==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
- --====================987654321_0==_--
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 13:47:47 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: [Mystara] In Re: Thoughts on Hule
Interesting bit of research there on Hule and its origins. After a brief
perusal, here's a thought on possible origins of the Huleans (note that
I'm not exactly sure how the chronology might work):
The Huleans could (originally) be one of the many tribes that fled the
Nithian colonization of the Known World- with origins similar to the
Thyatian, Hattian, and Kerendan tribes (ie ties with the Hinterlanders),
which could explain the Byzantine similarities.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 18:08:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ambreville@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Activity?
Gee, at last a message from Mystara-L. I though all you people had gone to
GenCon! :)
Bruce Heard
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 02:26:37 +0200
From: Deathwatch <deathw@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Activity?
At 18:08 4-08-97 -0400, you wrote:
>Gee, at last a message from Mystara-L. I though all you people had gone to
>GenCon! :)
>
>Bruce Heard
Can't really do that...I'm in The Netherlands, and I'm not that rich (yet :)
Bas van Doornspeek - deathw@xs4all.nl
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 21:42:02 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: [Mystara] Article in Dragon
Speaking of the Lupin article in the latest Dragon, I rather enjoyed
seeing the brief caption on "Mystara alive on the internet" that followed
the article. If nothing else, it was nice to see that the encouragement
of Mystara still exists, even if it isn't receiving 'official' products, etc.
Was that your idea to put that caption in there, Bruce? :)
Andrew
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 08:20:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Esherdon@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Activity?
Some of us cannot get to WI. Oh well
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 09:02:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ambreville@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Article in Dragon
In a message dated 97-08-05 02:10:37 EDT, you write:
<< Was that your idea to put that caption in there, Bruce? :) >>
Yes. If anything I figured it couldn't hurt! :)
Bruce Heard
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 12:52:51 -0500
From: Rob Rickard <cmnwrld@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Activity?
Ambreville@aol.com wrote:
> Gee, at last a message from Mystara-L. I though all you people had
> gone to
> GenCon! :)
>
> Bruce Heard
I should be there! Who else is going? I only live on the other side of
the state. I have been busy and paying attention to much... will this
be the last GenCon?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 22:27:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mystaros@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Activity?
In a message dated 97-08-04 20:08:28 EDT, you write:
<< Gee, at last a message from Mystara-L. I though all you people had gone to
GenCon! :)
Bruce Heard >>
I am!!! Wahoo!!! See you there!
Mystaros
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 21:18:09 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Activity?
On Tue, 5 Aug 1997 Mystaros@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 97-08-04 20:08:28 EDT, you write:
>
> << Gee, at last a message from Mystara-L. I though all you people had gone to
> GenCon! :)
>
> Bruce Heard >>
>
> I am!!! Wahoo!!! See you there!
>
> Mystaros
:(
Some day... some day... :(
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 97 19:31:37 EDT
From: Geoff Gander <ggander@CHAT.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: [Mystara] Owner of D&D Homepage?
Does anyone know who runs the D&D page on Geocities - the one that has the
Cyclopaedia errata, the notes on languages, etc?
I have some stuff I'd like to send to him to add to his page, and his
personal email address would really help.
Thanks in advance,
Geoff
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Geoff Gander, BA 97
Studentus Emeritus Ad Nauseam
Carleton University
General wanderer by principle, adventurer by profession
Email address: au998@freenet.carleton.ca
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 97 04:45:50 EST
From: vip@sedelivery.net
Subject: [Mystara] Search Engine Secrets
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· A little-known way to get multiple listings for your site in the same
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· How to get people to go to your site first even if they see your
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___ ASCII ___ Word 2.x for Windows ___Word 6.x ___ Word 7.x ___ Zipped
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------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V2 #121
*****************************
From: owner-mystara-digest@ (mystara-digest)
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #122
Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
Sender: owner-mystara-digest@
Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@
Precedence: bulk
mystara-digest Friday, August 8 1997 Volume 02 : Number 122
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 13:46:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: StarHawk <starhawk@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Search Engine Secrets
Has anybody complained to them or their postmaster yet? Or did someone
actually sign us up to receive this spam?
On Fri, 8 Aug 1997 vip@sedelivery.net wrote:
> Dear Friend and Fellow Entrepreneur,
>
> Thanks for signing up with Direct Delivery!
> You only get one last chance to act.
>
> EVA, Inc.
> 43 Riverside Ave.
> Suite 72
> Medford, MA 02155
> USA
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 16:48:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ray Brooks <rabrooks@bg1.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Search Engine Secrets
I got one about a week ago offering me a catalogue of potential brides
(yes, brides) in Russia.
ray
On Thu, 7 Aug 1997, StarHawk wrote:
>
> Has anybody complained to them or their postmaster yet? Or did someone
> actually sign us up to receive this spam?
>
>
> On Fri, 8 Aug 1997 vip@sedelivery.net wrote:
>
> > Dear Friend and Fellow Entrepreneur,
> >
> > Thanks for signing up with Direct Delivery!
> > You only get one last chance to act.
> >
> > EVA, Inc.
> > 43 Riverside Ave.
> > Suite 72
> > Medford, MA 02155
> > USA
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 15:09:02 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: [Mystara] Testing...
Just testing... my Patera posts haven't shown up yet... I'm wondering why
the delay...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:50:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ambreville@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Testing...
In a message dated 97-08-07 19:34:46 EDT, you write:
<< Just testing... my Patera posts haven't shown up yet... I'm wondering why
the delay... >>
Maybe Patera went to genCon also! :)
Bruce Heard
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:33:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: B1Bard@aol.com
Subject: [Mystara] netMAG#8
netMAG #8 is available now on my webpage:
http://members.aol.com/b1bard/
expect both the webpage address and email address that I use everyday to
change by the end of the month, but I can always be reached at this email
address if you have to find me.
anyway, netMAG #8 is in .sea format. My .zip program crashed on me, so there
won't be a .zip version for a while. .sea format eliminates the need for the
Stuffit Expander or other unstuffing engine.
All of the files are text - no pictures this time, sorry.
Brant
b1bard@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/b1bard/ [AOL folks click on -><A HREF="http://member
s.aol.com/b1bard/index.htm">Brant's Page]
"Their citizens (all of them counted as such) lost track of their duties...
and glorified the mythology of 'rights.' No nation so constituted, can
survive."
Robert Heinlein "Starship Troopers"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:44:40 -0600
From: "Leroy Van Camp III" <malacoda@lesbois>
Subject: [Mystara] [ADMIN] My Absence
Mystarans,
Several people have tried to contact me recently, but have
yet to recieve a response. I have a new computer and have had
little luck getting certain things to work (i.e. the modem in
NT). I am writing this from my roommates machine.
So, to those who sent me private e-mail, I will get back to
you as soon as I get my infernal machine working.
Thanks for your patience.
Leroy Van Camp III
Your Friendly Admin.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 20:59:26 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: [Mystara] Patera Project: Myoshima
Hmm... the other posts still haven't gotten through, though a much later
post by me already did... Well, I'll try this one, anyway...
MYOSHIMA (Empire of)
Location: Patera, Near Side. East of Malacayog.
Area: Approximately 140,000 sq.mi. Population: About 3,000,000
Rakasta, mostly concentrated in the cities. The capital city has about
500,000 Rakasta inhabitants. Language: Myoshiman. Coinage:
Technology Level: Iron age, steel forged.
Government Type: Semiautonomous provinces owing fealty to a central
Emperor.
Industries: Fishing, agriculture, crafts (ironworking).
Description: The Empire of Myoshima consists mainly of three rocky,
jungle covered islands. Fertile soil is only found around coastal areas;
inland areas do not support any great degree of agricultural production.
The buildings are elaborate, pagoda structures, similar to Ochalean
architecture on Mystara. The population consists almost entirely of a
single breed of Rakasta- a short, brown furred species (RW equivalent-
Iriomote cat). Some members of other species are present, slaves from
other lands and their descendants, but these invariably are afforded a
lower status among Myoshiman society (Note: the gray furred Myojo
Katamura would fit into this category).
Notable Sites:
History: Myoshimans have a long and unusual history on Patera. For
most of their prehistory, they remained primitive hunters, relying even
less on gathering to supplement their lifestyle than their Rakastan
cousins elsewhere on the moon. Isolated as they were, they didn't benefit
from the Pachydermions sharing of domestication of plants, and they
relied on very few tools, their natural weaponry and hunting abilities
making them the most efficient predators on the Myoshiman islands. This,
coupled with their relatively fast reproductive rates, led the Myoshiman
Rakasta quickly to a state of overpopulation. Indeed, they might have
overrun their islands and expanded into other portions of Patera had not
a few curious incidents arisen in their history.
The moon of Patera is known for its often torrentially stormy weather;
monsoons are a common sight. One curious side effect of this is the
generation of strange vortexes, seeming tornadoes, in the air. Many
hundreds of years ago, a Myoshiman Rakasta wokani attempted to explore
one of these vortexes, known as Kamikaze ('Divine Wind') among
Myoshimans. Mounted on his flying sabretooth tiger, he wsa quickly
catapulted through the atmosphere, and beyond the skyshield of Patera.
Fortunately, the quick thinking wokan managed to cast a Create Air spell
and saved he and his mount from death. He returned to the surface of
Patera and related his account. Over the following centuries, more
Rakastan explorers ventured beyond the skyshield. (Note: This phenomenon
has been documented on Mystara by Alphatian wizards, and is known there
as a Vortigern's Vortex).
During the time of massive overpopulation of the Myoshiman islands,
there was a sudden uprising in the number and size of these Kamikaze, and
many unsuspecting Rakasta were swept away, never to be heard of again.
One brave leader, suspecting the Immortals of sending a sign, ordered his
tribe to mount their sabretooths and fly off into the void. Many hundreds
of Rakasta did so, and flew off beyond the skyshield. Once there, they
followed their leader to a large sphere that lay immediately beyond
Patera; the planet of Mystara. There they landed on the island of
Ochalea, c.800 BC (Mystaran calendar). (Note: It is suspected by
Alphatian sages who documented this expedition at a later date that the
increase of Vortigern's Vortexes on Patera was caused by massive changes
in the climate of the Known World around the same time- notably the
raising of the Atruaghin Plateau and the creation of the Canolbarth
forest, both events which created massive disruptions in the climate of
the region of the Known World that Patera happened to be in orbit above
during this time.)
The Rakasta eventually became assimilated into the Ochalean culture,
and picked up many of their customs, not the least of which were
agricultural techniques (primarily rice farming) and steel production.
Over the centuries, the aggressive and fast reproducing Rakasta
(compared to the Ochalean humans) began to war with the Ochaleans, and
eventually dominated them, enslaving the human population. Within a few
decades, the Rakasta ruled the island of Ochalea.
Around 600 BC, Ochalean humans entered into an alliance with the
nearby Alphatian humans, who were beginning to venture further afield in
their own attempt to create an empire. The Ochaleans, with their
Alphatian allies, drove out the Rakastan upstarts, scattering them. Many
Rakasta fled to various regions of the Known World; a small but powerful
group returned back the way their ancestors had come- to the moon of
Patera.
This group, landing once more on the islands that would become known
as Myoshima, quickly dominated the more primitive Rakasta living there,
with their superior knowledge and weapons. They brought with them many
Ochalean customs, and the development of Myoshima's first cities began.
The first permanent capital, Mara, was built in 428 BC (Mystaran calendar).
A hereditary aristocracy was created. Emperor Myoshima (from
where the islands get their name) became the first ruler of the land in
344 BC. Among the aggressive Myoshimans, a new class began to rise to
prominence- a warrior class; katana wielding Rakasta who traveled the
land and fought for a living.
The rise of the warriors proved a problem for the aristocracy, which
soon lost its power as wars began to ravage the land. The warriors took
on more power for themselves; the Kamaukura Shogunate, the first military
government of Myoshima, was established in 42 AC, but would soon be
followed by many others. The farmers and fishercats lived in fear; these
were lawless times, when a Rakasta owned only that which he could hold by
force.
Two massive barbarian invasions from the nearby islands of Malacayog,
in 136 and 143 AC, caused large numbers of casualties among the
Myoshimans, and led some to question whether a more central authority
might be able to better protect the islanders, but their voices were
small, and the warriors continued to dominate the land.
Finally, in 329 AC, the voices of unity grew much louder, and a civil
war rocked the islands of Myoshima. It would last for nearly a century,
and would eventually result in the rise of a new class of warrior; the
Daimyo. These Daimyo were powerful military leaders, and managed to bring
great unity to the islands over time. Eventually, the unification process
came to a head in 442 AC. Myoshima became an Empire once more.
In 455 AC, Ieyasu Kitahara was crowned Emperor of Myoshima. A new
class system was instituted among the islands, a four class system: at
the top were the samurai; below them, the peasants, then artisans, then
the despised merchant class. Convicts and slaves formed an unofficial
fifth class. In 491 AC, the Kitahara family instituted a period of total
isolationism from the rest of Patera, in order to consolidate their
power, and reestablish the Empire from within.
This isolationism lasted for centuries, until the Emperor of Myoshima,
in 903 AC declared an end to it. An almost complete turnabout then came,
as Myoshimans entered into a policy of expansion into Patera. This
brought them into conflict with most of the other nations of the moon.
In 961 AC, a group of Heldannic Knights, increasingly curious about
Bellaynish activity, explored beyond the Skyshield of Mystara and
discover the moon of Patera. They landed in Myoshima, where they
encountered the xenophobic Myoshimans. The two peoples reacted badly to
one another, and the Heldanners were quicly branded as undesirables and
criminals within Myoshima, and were driven offworld. A few years later,
an encounter with Prince Haldemar of Haaken led to a more congenial
response by the Myoshimans. The Empire entered into diplomatic relations
with the Mystaran Empire of Alphatia. Myojo Katamura joined the crew of
the Princess Ark.
Important Figures: Lord Katayama (Daimyo of Ichiyoda Province).
Flora and Fauna: The islands of Myoshima are virtually devoid of
intelligent monsters, though beasts roam the innermost areas of the land.
A notable exception is the presence of a number of dragons, of various
colors, that live within the Empire's borders. Generally, these creatures
are well regarded and feared by the Myoshimans. The southernmost island
in the Myoshiman chain is also known to host a large population of Dragonnes.
OTHER NOTES:
I'm sure the migrations to Mystara may be controversial, but here's my
reasoning: The similarities with Ochalea and Myoshiman culture. That's
essentially it. :)
I figured the Vortigern's Vortex idea would be a good way of tying in the
migrations beyond the skyshield, especially when I saw how neatly it
paralleled the concept of Kamikaze ('Divine Winds'). I also tied it in
with the oft tossed about idea of a native Ochalean culture
(pre-Alphatian); we'll see what the MChina people want to do with that,
if anything.
On another note- it helps explain why Lord Katayama spoke Alphatian when
he met with Prince Haldemar.
Thoughts? Comments? Criticisms?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 97 22:39:55 EST
From: vip@sesdelivery.net
Subject: [Mystara] Search Engine Secrets
Dear Friend and Fellow Entrepreneur,
Thanks for signing up with Direct Delivery!
You only get one last chance to act.
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search engines, then this will be the most important information you will
ever read. You are about to Discover the most Powerful Strategies used
only by the very best on the Web... strategies so Powerful that once used
will place your Web Page or site at the TOP 10 - 20 search engine listings!
These TOP SECRET strategies will provide you with a cutting edge advantage
over your competition and give you the long awaited results you have been
looking for. Just imagine opening a Floodgate of People into your Home Page
because you have the right information. It doesn't matter if you have one
page or 1000 pages--you can achieve a top rating with this powerful
information and soon squash your competition!
This 25 page in-depth report covers:
· Search Engine Tactics your competition doesn't want you to know!
· The best kept secrets to getting you a top 10 - 20 listing!
· The 10 top keywords searched for!
· Getting better positioning than your opposition even when they have the
same identical keywords!
· Proven techniques for selecting the most effective keywords and how to
arrange them!
· A powerful way to get your listing seen by potential customers, even if
they're not looking for you!
· A little-known way to get multiple listings for your site in the same
search engine!
· Proven strategies used to resubmit your page or site and get that top
rating even if you have it listed already!
· How to get people to go to your site first even if they see your
competition!
· The most powerful words used to create the best Web Pages!
· A Web tool used to market successfully in the Newsgroups!
· Five things you should NEVER do!
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:35:39 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Patera Project: Myoshima
On Thu, 7 Aug 1997, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote:
> MYOSHIMA (Empire of)
Hey, keep up the good work :)
< lots of nice stuff snipped>
> 500,000 Rakasta inhabitants. Language: Myoshiman. Coinage:
Coinage?
> Notable Sites:
??
Working on these or did they slip your mind?
I like what you have done here. The Migrations Mystara-Patera vica-verca
makes sense to me. Where did the rakasta originally come from? Is there a
cat-immortal out there who created them?
I was thinking about a story I read about Hercules and Leo the Lion, in
which Hercules defeats the lion and it is taken up to the moon to serve
the moon goddess. (After it died it gained immortality becoming the Star
sign) Maybe that myth contains the secret of the origin of rakastas?
I liked the other parts of the history to, Japanese culture and history is
very similar dont you think? But I suppose that was the general idea.
Didn't you mention planning on placing Goblin and Pachydermion cultures
on our invisible moon too? I'm very curious on what you make out of those.
How did they get..mooned?..err
> Thoughts? Comments? Criticisms?
Maybe I'll think of more later..
Havard
(I'm back again and finnished reading through about 300 new mails
yesterday...phew)
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 21:14:36 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Horrible class (in my opinion)
On Wed, 30 Jul 1997, Thorfinn Tait wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Jul 1997 Mystaros@aol.com wrote:
> >Weren't Prince Charles and Princess Diana sixth cousins or something?
>
> Probably. (I'm not a royalist so I'm not sure.)
>
> >Also, close-relation marriage was pretty much the only way to get married
> >among the nobility in Europe till this century. Remember the great Hapsburg
> >Empire (and the interesting Hapsburg genetic permutations)?
>
> Yep, very true. Which is why jokes about the inbreeding of the monarchy
> are pretty common over here in Britain.
In Norway we have jokes about the inbreeding of the monarchy of sweden.
Well, our own too, but its much more fun to pick on the swedes? Any of you
here? :)
Sorry about this slightly off topic mail..
Havard
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 11:49:31 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: [Mystara] Patera Project: Malacayog (fwd)
Second try:
- ------------------------
Here's #2 of my notes:
MALACAYOG
Location: Patera, Near Side. East of Rajahstan, west of Myoshima.
Area: Approximately 116,000 sq.mi. Population: 60,000 Rakasta of
various breeds. Language: Numerous tribal dialects. Coinage: None
(barter only).
Technology Level: Stone Age.
Government Type: Tribal.
Industries: Hunting and gathering, swidden agriculture.
Description: A series of scattered, thinly populated islands. The
population consists of numerous tribes of Rakasta. These Rakasta are
primarily hunters and gatherers, and make little use of tools. They make
use of some degree of swidden (ie, 'slash-and-burn') agriculture, and
live in semi-permanent villages, migrating from farm ground to farm
ground, and warring with one another. They are reknowned for their
cannibalistic tendencies. Some few tribes make use of iron and bronze
weapons and tools they have looted from the bodies of explorers from
outside their island nation. Coastal tribes are known to make daring sea
raids on surrounding nations, primarily Myoshima and Rajahstan.
Notable Sites: None.
History: Myoshimans recall with great anger two massive invasion
attempts by the Malacayog islanders, one in 136 AC and one in 143 AC
(Mystaran calendar). Both raids were repulsed, but at great cost in
lives. Myoshimans despise Malacayog islanders for these reasons, and have
recently begun attempts to colonize the islands and bring Malacayog under
their imperial heels. These attempts have been largely unsuccessful thus
far, but the Myoshimans are doggedly continuing in their efforts.
(Malacayog also makes a nice base of operations for colonization efforts
against Rajahastan, not coincidentally- at least as I envision it).
Important Figures: No notable figures have yet risen to prominence
(though I figure someone prompted those raids hundreds of years ago...
they correspond roughly to Mongol invasion attempts of Japan, for those
of you wondering).
Flora and Fauna:
Thoughts?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 11:49:07 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: [Mystara] Patera Project: Kompor-Thap (fwd)
Okay- I'm sending these again. They got lost somewhere, but I see my
(later) Myoshima post got through...
- -----------------------------
Here's the first of my bits on the nations of Patera. I've written it up
in PWA format, for ease of discussion. I don't have a map or anything,
but I've essentially envisioned Patera as being the lands of SE Asia +
Japan, altered a bit (much like the map of Mystara itself is an altered
version of the Real World continents) and placed smack dab on a globe.
Anyway, comments welcomed (in fact, more than welcomed, encouraged!)
KOMPOR-THAP
Location: Patera, Far Side. West of Rajahstan.
Area: Approximately 262,000 sq.mi. Population: 300,000
Pachydermions. Language: Komporan. Coinage: ?
Technology Level: Iron Age, Steel forged.
Government Type: Hagiarchy (rule by Holy Men)
Industries: Agriculture, crafts (stonework).
Description: The land of Kompor-Thap consists of high, mountainous
terrain surrounding a lush jungle valley. Its inhabitants are a race of
elephant-like humanoid creatures known as Pachydermions. The
Pachydermions live a largely spiritual existence, and maintain peaceful
relations with their Rajahstani neighbors to the west. Their valley is
filled with many large and elaborately carved stone temples and
buildings, which have led outsiders to term Kompor-Thap as 'the Land of One
Thousand Hidden Temples'.
Notable Sites: The capital city of Pacan (pop. 30,000) is a large,
beautiful temple complex.
History: The Pachydermions have long and detailed records of their
history on Patera, as well as those of their neighbors. They were the
first race to develop agriculture- primarily the domestication of rice-
and over time shared this knowledge with the people of the nation now
known as Rajahstan. They began building stone structures early in their
history, and were the first race on Patera to develop bronze and ironworking
technology (they developed this independent of Myoshima- See MYOSHIMA).
Perhaps the milestone in the history of Kompor-Thap was the evolution
of a Pachydermion, named Ganetra, to Immortality (c. 460 BC- Mystaran
calendar). Ganetra then influenced his people to their current belief
systems, which greatly impact their daily lives. The first monastery
dedicated to Ganetra, Shakya monastery, was founded c. 17 BC, near the
town of Pacan (founded c. 216 BC).
Important Figures: ?
Flora and Fauna: ?
OTHER NOTES:
I have envisioned Kompor-Thap as a sort of combination of
Myanmar/Cambodia (as Bruce's original inspiration had it), and Tibet. The
Pachydermions, with their primary patron Ganetra, represent the
"Buddhist" culture of Patera.
As far as that goes, I have a few thoughts:
1) The holy men who 'rule' Kompor-Thap may be White Elephants; a mark of
their spirituality. Perhaps this mark will only indicate the overall
ruler, though (a Dalai Lama type figure).
2) The belief system of Kompor-Thap: I'm toying with the concept of
reincarnation/Nirvana of Buddhism as relating to Immortality; ie, the
Pachydermions actively strive to perfect themselves in order to one day
achieve what Ganetra has achieved- Immortality. I sort of like the idea
of a realm where the concept of Immortality is known and embraced by all,
and understood to be an achievable state, and there are members of that
community who try to reach that state. Most Pachydermions will be content
to just live good lives, but there are those- the clergy types- who
dedicate themselves to that goal.
What does everyone think?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 16:55:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ray Brooks <rabrooks@bg1.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: [Mystara] the GenCon void
Gee, with all the activity on the list the past couple of days, you'd
think everyone went to GenCon or something....
ray ;)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 17:33:45 -0400
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 22:07:38 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Owner of D&D Homepage?
On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Geoff Gander wrote:
> Does anyone know who runs the D&D page on Geocities - the one that has the
> Cyclopaedia errata, the notes on languages, etc?
Sounds like Shawn's page- though there are a number of list members who
have pages with Geocities; Thorf and Mystaros spring to mind.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 16:48:26 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: [Mystara] Patera Project: Surabayang (fwd)
Here's another one... I stopped going in alphabetic order... :(
SURABAYANG (islands of)
Location: Patera, south of Rajahstan and Myoshima.
Area: Approximately 400,000 sq.mi. Population: 100,000 Rakasta,
mostly scattered tribal peoples, of various breeds. Language: Various.
Coinage: None, among the tribal peoples. Varied among the pirates of
Surabayang (wherever they stole their booty from).
Government Type: Tribal, among the majority of the populace; Anarchic
among the pirates.
Industries: Hunting and gathering; piracy.
Description: The islands of Surabayang are an enormous volcanic
archipelago that encircles the south polar regions of Patera. They are
very thinly populated, primarily by tribal Rakasta. The island of
Surabayang itself is the second largest island in the chain, and is home
to numerous bands of pirates, all intermittently plying the trade routes
between the other nations and warring and raiding with both other nations
and themselves. Many of the pirates engage in slavery of both the native
populace and that of the other nations of Patera.
Notable Sites: ?
History: ?
Important Figures: ?
Flora and Fauna: ?
Suggestions?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 23:33:55 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: [Mystara] Patera Project: Selimpore
Here's one that may be controversial... we'll see...
SELIMPORE (matriarchy of)
Location: Patera, southwest of Malacayog, south of Rajahstan.
Area: Approximately 200,000 sq.mi. Population: ? Language: Various
tribal dialects, Bellaynish. Coinage: ?
Techonology Level: Iron Age, steel forged.
Government Type: Plutocracy, with all power tied up in a matriarchy.
Industries: Agriculture, fishing, trade.
Description: Selimpore is a large island nation that is mostly on Far
Side, though the easternmost portion spills over into Near Side. It is a
lush jungle territory, populated by various breeds of Rakastan
hunter-gatherers. There are a number of growing towns and cities on the
island, centered around a largely successful mercantile system that was
began when Bellaynish settlers arrived and colonized the island in 919 AC
(Mystaran calendar).
Notable Sites: ?
History: Selimpore was a largely unimportant island nation until
recent times, when it was discovered by Bellaynish explorers in the year
919 AC. The Queen of Bellayne ordered the area to be colonized, and soon
Bellaynish Rakasta moved in to the area, exploiting the native Rakasta as
laborers, and began to build cities on the island, and set up trade with
the other nations of Patera (primarily the city-states of Rajahstan and
the Myoshiman Empire).
Important Figures:
Flora and Fauna:
The Bellaynish activity may be a bit controversial, but I thought it fit
in well with the theme of British/Dutch/etc colonization of SE Asian
communities in the early 1900s, and it certainly fit in with the fact
that- according to Bruce's article on Bellayne- Myoshima and Bellayne, at
least, have some sort of diplomatic ties and exchange between the two
nations. Also, I thought: Hmm... Bellayne has a Queen, and Selimpore is a
Matriarchy... those two ideas can work together. It also ties in with my
thoughts on Heldannic activities (See MYOSHIMA entry), as I've postulated
that the Heldanners- known to have ties with the Savage Coast- were
attracted to Patera by Bellaynish activities.
Thoughts?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 16:48:41 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: [Mystara] Patera Project: Selimpore (fwd)
Here's one that may be controversial... we'll see...
SELIMPORE (matriarchy of)
Location: Patera, southwest of Malacayog, south of Rajahstan.
Area: Approximately 200,000 sq.mi. Population: ? Language: Various
tribal dialects, Bellaynish. Coinage: ?
Techonology Level: Iron Age, steel forged.
Government Type: Plutocracy, with all power tied up in a matriarchy.
Industries: Agriculture, fishing, trade.
Description: Selimpore is a large island nation that is mostly on Far
Side, though the easternmost portion spills over into Near Side. It is a
lush jungle territory, populated by various breeds of Rakastan
hunter-gatherers. There are a number of growing towns and cities on the
island, centered around a largely successful mercantile system that was
began when Bellaynish settlers arrived and colonized the island in 919 AC
(Mystaran calendar).
Notable Sites: ?
History: Selimpore was a largely unimportant island nation until
recent times, when it was discovered by Bellaynish explorers in the year
919 AC. The Queen of Bellayne ordered the area to be colonized, and soon
Bellaynish Rakasta moved in to the area, exploiting the native Rakasta as
laborers, and began to build cities on the island, and set up trade with
the other nations of Patera (primarily the city-states of Rajahstan and
the Myoshiman Empire).
Important Figures:
Flora and Fauna:
The Bellaynish activity may be a bit controversial, but I thought it fit
in well with the theme of British/Dutch/etc colonization of SE Asian
communities in the early 1900s, and it certainly fit in with the fact
that- according to Bruce's article on Bellayne- Myoshima and Bellayne, at
least, have some sort of diplomatic ties and exchange between the two
nations. Also, I thought: Hmm... Bellayne has a Queen, and Selimpore is a
Matriarchy... those two ideas can work together. It also ties in with my
thoughts on Heldannic activities (See MYOSHIMA entry), as I've postulated
that the Heldanners- known to have ties with the Savage Coast- were
attracted to Patera by Bellaynish activities.
Thoughts?
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V2 #122
*****************************
From: owner-mystara-digest@ (mystara-digest)
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #123
Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
Sender: owner-mystara-digest@
Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@
Precedence: bulk
mystara-digest Sunday, August 10 1997 Volume 02 : Number 123
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 23:18:11 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: [Mystara] Patera Project: Malacayog
Here's #2 of my notes:
MALACAYOG
Location: Patera, Near Side. East of Rajahstan, west of Myoshima.
Area: Approximately 116,000 sq.mi. Population: 60,000 Rakasta of
various breeds. Language: Numerous tribal dialects. Coinage: None
(barter only).
Technology Level: Stone Age.
Government Type: Tribal.
Industries: Hunting and gathering, swidden agriculture.
Description: A series of scattered, thinly populated islands. The
population consists of numerous tribes of Rakasta. These Rakasta are
primarily hunters and gatherers, and make little use of tools. They make
use of some degree of swidden (ie, 'slash-and-burn') agriculture, and
live in semi-permanent villages, migrating from farm ground to farm
ground, and warring with one another. They are reknowned for their
cannibalistic tendencies. Some few tribes make use of iron and bronze
weapons and tools they have looted from the bodies of explorers from
outside their island nation. Coastal tribes are known to make daring sea
raids on surrounding nations, primarily Myoshima and Rajahstan.
Notable Sites: None.
History: Myoshimans recall with great anger two massive invasion
attempts by the Malacayog islanders, one in 136 AC and one in 143 AC
(Mystaran calendar). Both raids were repulsed, but at great cost in
lives. Myoshimans despise Malacayog islanders for these reasons, and have
recently begun attempts to colonize the islands and bring Malacayog under
their imperial heels. These attempts have been largely unsuccessful thus
far, but the Myoshimans are doggedly continuing in their efforts.
(Malacayog also makes a nice base of operations for colonization efforts
against Rajahastan, not coincidentally- at least as I envision it).
Important Figures: No notable figures have yet risen to prominence
(though I figure someone prompted those raids hundreds of years ago...
they correspond roughly to Mongol invasion attempts of Japan, for those
of you wondering).
Flora and Fauna:
Thoughts?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 23:53:51 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: [Mystara] Patera Project: Rajahstan
Here's the next to last:
RAJAHSTAN
Location: Patera, Far Side.
Area: Approximately 535,000 sq.mi. Population: Approximately
2,000,000 Rakasta (various breeds). Language: Various. Coinage: Guru
(25 gp), rupee (5 gp), bhani (2 ep), khundar (sp), piaster (cp).
Technology Level: Iron Age, steel forged.
Government Type: Twelve allied realms, united under the Spiritual
Council. Each realm is ruled by a mixture of theocracy and monarchy.
Industries: ?
Description: The nation of Rajahstan is made up of twelve autonomous
city-states, that are loosely allied as a nation. The realm has strong
Sindhi influence, as well as Komporan influence (from their nearby
neighbors). Many of the rulers are Rakshasa (see notes below). The
southern portion of Rajahstan is populated by a few thousand pygmy
Rakasta, who are tribal and outside of the influence of the government.
Notable Sites: ?
History: The nation of Rajahstan has strong ties to the nation of
Kompor-Thap. The Pachydermions taught the Rakasta of Rajahstan the
technology of crop domestication and tool usage many centuries ago. The
two nations have had sporadic conflicts over the years. Over the
centuries, various city-states have arisen in Rajahstan, with varying
areas of influence.
A major turning point in the history of the realm occurred c. 250 AC
(Mystaran calendar), when a stray warband of Pyrithians landed in the
area of Rajahstan. They attempted to enslave the savage Rakasta living
there, but were repulsed. They fled the moon, taking with them hundreds
of Rakasta of various breeds as slaves. They then landed on Mystara,
where they established the Kingdom of Emerond.
C. 300 AC, massive numbers of Rakasta slaves fled Emerond. Some went
east, along the Davanian coast and settled; of those, some eventually
ended up in the Thanegioth Archipelago. A vast majority went west, and
migrated upwards along the Serpent Peninsula, where they eventually ended
up in Sind, and became assimilated into the Sindhi culture.
In 425 AC, Minrothad traders brought lycanthropy with them to Sind.
Most forms of lycanthropy killed the Rakasta outright, but those
inflicted with weretiger lycanthropy became strangely altered. They were
transformed into powerful members of their species, and gradually began
to influence the Rakasta populations in Sind. The first 'Rakshasa' were
created.
During the purge of lycanthropes in 450 AC, all Rakasta (inflicted or
not) were driven out of Sind. Most Rakasta fled westward (pursued by
lycanthrope hating Lupins, no less) and ended up in the Savage Coastal
region, where they eventually founded the nation of Bellayne.
The powerful Rakshasa, however, fled back to their home of Patera, and
settled once more into the nation of Rajahstan, bringing Sindhi ways and
cultures with them- at least those aspects of Sindhi culture they liked.
These Sindhi ways meshed with cultural aspects brought over from
Kompor-Thap and gave the nation its unique culture.
More recently, responding to increasing dangers from Myoshima and
Selimpore, the various city-states of Rajahstan agreed to form an
alliance against outside aggressors. The Spiritual Council, the overall
ruling body of Rajahstan, was founded in 925 AC.
Important Figures:
Flora and Fauna:
OTHER NOTES:
1) Rakshasa: There are mentions of Rakshasa (probably editorial errors)
in the entry on Shahjahpur in the PWAs. My take on the Mystaran Rakshasa
is basically that they are just Rakasta inflicted with were-tiger
lycanthropy; they are bigger, stronger, invulnerable to nonmagical or
non-silvered weapons in both Rakasta and Tiger form (which are their only
two forms), and tend to be powerful Shamans and Wokani (or Clerics and
Magic-Users). They also tend to be the leaders of Rajahstan, though not
necessarily evil. Also, a White Tiger sort of thing (similar to
Kompor-Thap) may or may not be in effect.
2) Culture: Rajahstan as I have it is less like India (we already have
Sind), and more like the city-state nations of "Hinduized" SE Asia. There
is a strong "Buddhist" (Kompor-Thap) and "Hindu" (Sind) influence, though
the area lacks certain aspects of both- notably, there is no caste system
like in Sindhi society.
Thoughts?
I'll post the big one- MYOSHIMA- tomorrow.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 23:23:26 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: [Mystara] Patera Project: Surabayang
Here's another one... I stopped going in alphabetic order... :(
SURABAYANG (islands of)
Location: Patera, south of Rajahstan and Myoshima.
Area: Approximately 400,000 sq.mi. Population: 100,000 Rakasta,
mostly scattered tribal peoples, of various breeds. Language: Various.
Coinage: None, among the tribal peoples. Varied among the pirates of
Surabayang (wherever they stole their booty from).
Government Type: Tribal, among the majority of the populace; Anarchic
among the pirates.
Industries: Hunting and gathering; piracy.
Description: The islands of Surabayang are an enormous volcanic
archipelago that encircles the south polar regions of Patera. They are
very thinly populated, primarily by tribal Rakasta. The island of
Surabayang itself is the second largest island in the chain, and is home
to numerous bands of pirates, all intermittently plying the trade routes
between the other nations and warring and raiding with both other nations
and themselves. Many of the pirates engage in slavery of both the native
populace and that of the other nations of Patera.
Notable Sites: ?
History: ?
Important Figures: ?
Flora and Fauna: ?
Suggestions?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 23:09:10 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: [Mystara] Patera Project: Kompor-Thap
Here's the first of my bits on the nations of Patera. I've written it up
in PWA format, for ease of discussion. I don't have a map or anything,
but I've essentially envisioned Patera as being the lands of SE Asia +
Japan, altered a bit (much like the map of Mystara itself is an altered
version of the Real World continents) and placed smack dab on a globe.
Anyway, comments welcomed (in fact, more than welcomed, encouraged!)
KOMPOR-THAP
Location: Patera, Far Side. West of Rajahstan.
Area: Approximately 262,000 sq.mi. Population: 300,000
Pachydermions. Language: Komporan. Coinage: ?
Technology Level: Iron Age, Steel forged.
Government Type: Hagiarchy (rule by Holy Men)
Industries: Agriculture, crafts (stonework).
Description: The land of Kompor-Thap consists of high, mountainous
terrain surrounding a lush jungle valley. Its inhabitants are a race of
elephant-like humanoid creatures known as Pachydermions. The
Pachydermions live a largely spiritual existence, and maintain peaceful
relations with their Rajahstani neighbors to the west. Their valley is
filled with many large and elaborately carved stone temples and
buildings, which have led outsiders to term Kompor-Thap as 'the Land of One
Thousand Hidden Temples'.
Notable Sites: The capital city of Pacan (pop. 30,000) is a large,
beautiful temple complex.
History: The Pachydermions have long and detailed records of their
history on Patera, as well as those of their neighbors. They were the
first race to develop agriculture- primarily the domestication of rice-
and over time shared this knowledge with the people of the nation now
known as Rajahstan. They began building stone structures early in their
history, and were the first race on Patera to develop bronze and ironworking
technology (they developed this independent of Myoshima- See MYOSHIMA).
Perhaps the milestone in the history of Kompor-Thap was the evolution
of a Pachydermion, named Ganetra, to Immortality (c. 460 BC- Mystaran
calendar). Ganetra then influenced his people to their current belief
systems, which greatly impact their daily lives. The first monastery
dedicated to Ganetra, Shakya monastery, was founded c. 17 BC, near the
town of Pacan (founded c. 216 BC).
Important Figures: ?
Flora and Fauna: ?
OTHER NOTES:
I have envisioned Kompor-Thap as a sort of combination of
Myanmar/Cambodia (as Bruce's original inspiration had it), and Tibet. The
Pachydermions, with their primary patron Ganetra, represent the
"Buddhist" culture of Patera.
As far as that goes, I have a few thoughts:
1) The holy men who 'rule' Kompor-Thap may be White Elephants; a mark of
their spirituality. Perhaps this mark will only indicate the overall
ruler, though (a Dalai Lama type figure).
2) The belief system of Kompor-Thap: I'm toying with the concept of
reincarnation/Nirvana of Buddhism as relating to Immortality; ie, the
Pachydermions actively strive to perfect themselves in order to one day
achieve what Ganetra has achieved- Immortality. I sort of like the idea
of a realm where the concept of Immortality is known and embraced by all,
and understood to be an achievable state, and there are members of that
community who try to reach that state. Most Pachydermions will be content
to just live good lives, but there are those- the clergy types- who
dedicate themselves to that goal.
What does everyone think?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 13:57:10 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: [Mystara] Patera Project
Okay- I've finally organized my Patera notes into some semblance of
orderliness, and will post them to the list later this evening for the
perusal of anyone interested, to get feedback and ideas from you all.
Andrew
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 16:48:53 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: [Mystara] Patera Project: Rajahstan (fwd)
Here's the next to last:
RAJAHSTAN
Location: Patera, Far Side.
Area: Approximately 535,000 sq.mi. Population: Approximately
2,000,000 Rakasta (various breeds). Language: Various. Coinage: Guru
(25 gp), rupee (5 gp), bhani (2 ep), khundar (sp), piaster (cp).
Technology Level: Iron Age, steel forged.
Government Type: Twelve allied realms, united under the Spiritual
Council. Each realm is ruled by a mixture of theocracy and monarchy.
Industries: ?
Description: The nation of Rajahstan is made up of twelve autonomous
city-states, that are loosely allied as a nation. The realm has strong
Sindhi influence, as well as Komporan influence (from their nearby
neighbors). Many of the rulers are Rakshasa (see notes below). The
southern portion of Rajahstan is populated by a few thousand pygmy
Rakasta, who are tribal and outside of the influence of the government.
Notable Sites: ?
History: The nation of Rajahstan has strong ties to the nation of
Kompor-Thap. The Pachydermions taught the Rakasta of Rajahstan the
technology of crop domestication and tool usage many centuries ago. The
two nations have had sporadic conflicts over the years. Over the
centuries, various city-states have arisen in Rajahstan, with varying
areas of influence.
A major turning point in the history of the realm occurred c. 250 AC
(Mystaran calendar), when a stray warband of Pyrithians landed in the
area of Rajahstan. They attempted to enslave the savage Rakasta living
there, but were repulsed. They fled the moon, taking with them hundreds
of Rakasta of various breeds as slaves. They then landed on Mystara,
where they established the Kingdom of Emerond.
C. 300 AC, massive numbers of Rakasta slaves fled Emerond. Some went
east, along the Davanian coast and settled; of those, some eventually
ended up in the Thanegioth Archipelago. A vast majority went west, and
migrated upwards along the Serpent Peninsula, where they eventually ended
up in Sind, and became assimilated into the Sindhi culture.
In 425 AC, Minrothad traders brought lycanthropy with them to Sind.
Most forms of lycanthropy killed the Rakasta outright, but those
inflicted with weretiger lycanthropy became strangely altered. They were
transformed into powerful members of their species, and gradually began
to influence the Rakasta populations in Sind. The first 'Rakshasa' were
created.
During the purge of lycanthropes in 450 AC, all Rakasta (inflicted or
not) were driven out of Sind. Most Rakasta fled westward (pursued by
lycanthrope hating Lupins, no less) and ended up in the Savage Coastal
region, where they eventually founded the nation of Bellayne.
The powerful Rakshasa, however, fled back to their home of Patera, and
settled once more into the nation of Rajahstan, bringing Sindhi ways and
cultures with them- at least those aspects of Sindhi culture they liked.
These Sindhi ways meshed with cultural aspects brought over from
Kompor-Thap and gave the nation its unique culture.
More recently, responding to increasing dangers from Myoshima and
Selimpore, the various city-states of Rajahstan agreed to form an
alliance against outside aggressors. The Spiritual Council, the overall
ruling body of Rajahstan, was founded in 925 AC.
Important Figures:
Flora and Fauna:
OTHER NOTES:
1) Rakshasa: There are mentions of Rakshasa (probably editorial errors)
in the entry on Shahjahpur in the PWAs. My take on the Mystaran Rakshasa
is basically that they are just Rakasta inflicted with were-tiger
lycanthropy; they are bigger, stronger, invulnerable to nonmagical or
non-silvered weapons in both Rakasta and Tiger form (which are their only
two forms), and tend to be powerful Shamans and Wokani (or Clerics and
Magic-Users). They also tend to be the leaders of Rajahstan, though not
necessarily evil. Also, a White Tiger sort of thing (similar to
Kompor-Thap) may or may not be in effect.
2) Culture: Rajahstan as I have it is less like India (we already have
Sind), and more like the city-state nations of "Hinduized" SE Asia. There
is a strong "Buddhist" (Kompor-Thap) and "Hindu" (Sind) influence, though
the area lacks certain aspects of both- notably, there is no caste system
like in Sindhi society.
Thoughts?
I'll post the big one- MYOSHIMA- tomorrow.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 16:03:42 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Patera Project
On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote:
> Okay- I've finally organized my Patera notes into some semblance of
> orderliness, and will post them to the list later this evening for the
> perusal of anyone interested, to get feedback and ideas from you all.
Okay, got em all twice and in opposite order naturally, there were 6
except this one, right?
Haavard
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 16:56:04 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Patera Project: Kompor-Thap (fwd)
On Fri, 8 Aug 1997, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote:
> KOMPOR-THAP
> Government Type: Hagiarchy (rule by Holy Men)
What would be the title for these holy men?
> Industries: Agriculture, crafts (stonework).
What kind of plantlife is there on Patera? I suppose some of the
migrationists could have brought some Mystaran plants with them, but what
kinds of plants have evolved naturally on the moon? Does the
"invisibility" effect of patera have any strange effects on sunlight seen
from Patera? Does this affect plants in any way?
> Description: The land of Kompor-Thap consists of high, mountainous
> terrain surrounding a lush jungle valley. Its inhabitants are a race of
> elephant-like humanoid creatures known as Pachydermions. The
> Pachydermions live a largely spiritual existence, and maintain peaceful
> relations with their Rajahstani neighbors to the west. Their valley is
> filled with many large and elaborately carved stone temples and
> buildings, which have led outsiders to term Kompor-Thap as 'the Land of One
> Thousand Hidden Temples'.
Whatabout mysterious Elephant Graveyards?
Where did the Pachydermions come from? Are there any of those on Mystara?
A very interesting race in my opinion. Do they have any relationship with
real elephants? Do they mount small flying elephants with big ears? :)
> Notable Sites: The capital city of Pacan (pop. 30,000) is a large,
> beautiful temple complex.
> History: The Pachydermions have long and detailed records of their
> history on Patera, as well as those of their neighbors. They were the
> first race to develop agriculture- primarily the domestication of rice-
> and over time shared this knowledge with the people of the nation now
> known as Rajahstan. They began building stone structures early in their
> history, and were the first race on Patera to develop bronze and ironworking
> technology (they developed this independent of Myoshima- See MYOSHIMA).
> Perhaps the milestone in the history of Kompor-Thap was the evolution
> of a Pachydermion, named Ganetra, to Immortality (c. 460 BC- Mystaran
> calendar). Ganetra then influenced his people to their current belief
> systems, which greatly impact their daily lives. The first monastery
> dedicated to Ganetra, Shakya monastery, was founded c. 17 BC, near the
> town of Pacan (founded c. 216 BC).
> Important Figures: ?
> Flora and Fauna: ?
>
> OTHER NOTES:
>
> I have envisioned Kompor-Thap as a sort of combination of
> Myanmar/Cambodia (as Bruce's original inspiration had it), and Tibet. The
> Pachydermions, with their primary patron Ganetra, represent the
> "Buddhist" culture of Patera.
>
> As far as that goes, I have a few thoughts:
>
> 1) The holy men who 'rule' Kompor-Thap may be White Elephants; a mark of
> their spirituality. Perhaps this mark will only indicate the overall
> ruler, though (a Dalai Lama type figure).
Sounds a bit like the mark of the Shadow elf shamans doesn't it?
>
> 2) The belief system of Kompor-Thap: I'm toying with the concept of
> reincarnation/Nirvana of Buddhism as relating to Immortality; ie, the
> Pachydermions actively strive to perfect themselves in order to one day
> achieve what Ganetra has achieved- Immortality. I sort of like the idea
> of a realm where the concept of Immortality is known and embraced by all,
> and understood to be an achievable state, and there are members of that
> community who try to reach that state. Most Pachydermions will be content
> to just live good lives, but there are those- the clergy types- who
> dedicate themselves to that goal.
>
Reincarnation is very possible in Mystara. Most immortals lead souls of
their dead followers through limbo into their homeplane, but Ganetra might
lead them back to be born again.
I think your theories are quite interesting, though If their quest is for
immortality, they might not be so similar to buddhists. After all Buddhism
is about escaping this world of pain. Perhaps they see the immortals as
Boddhisatwas(sp?) souls who remain to guide the living and imperfect to
end the reincarnation process?
> What does everyone think?
I like it so far :)
Havard
- ---
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 17:00:22 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Patera Project: Surabayang (fwd)
On Fri, 8 Aug 1997, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote:
>
> Here's another one... I stopped going in alphabetic order... :(
>
> SURABAYANG (islands of)
<snip>
I was looking through the D&D Creature Catalogue. Under the subsection
Cat, Great there are some interesting ideas for rakasta subraces
Bekka, a large pantherlike cat
Cheetah
Jaguar
Lynx
and Spotted Lion
Havard
- -----
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 17:04:20 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Patera Project: Rajahstan
On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote:
> Here's the next to last:
>
> RAJAHSTAN
>
> OTHER NOTES:
>
> 1) Rakshasa: There are mentions of Rakshasa (probably editorial errors)
> in the entry on Shahjahpur in the PWAs. My take on the Mystaran Rakshasa
> is basically that they are just Rakasta inflicted with were-tiger
> lycanthropy; they are bigger, stronger, invulnerable to nonmagical or
> non-silvered weapons in both Rakasta and Tiger form (which are their only
> two forms), and tend to be powerful Shamans and Wokani (or Clerics and
> Magic-Users). They also tend to be the leaders of Rajahstan, though not
> necessarily evil. Also, a White Tiger sort of thing (similar to
> Kompor-Thap) may or may not be in effect.
Okay. sounds like an good explanation for the rakshasa's origin. I dont
know anything about them, though I remember the picture from the Monster
Manual. Do you have any D&D statistics?
>
> 2) Culture: Rajahstan as I have it is less like India (we already have
> Sind), and more like the city-state nations of "Hinduized" SE Asia. There
> is a strong "Buddhist" (Kompor-Thap) and "Hindu" (Sind) influence, though
> the area lacks certain aspects of both- notably, there is no caste system
> like in Sindhi society.
>
Do they have a Catse system like Shajapur?
> Thoughts?
>
> I'll post the big one- MYOSHIMA- tomorrow.
>
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 14:29:57 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Patera Project
On Sat, 9 Aug 1997, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote:
> Okay, got em all twice and in opposite order naturally, there were 6
> except this one, right?
Let's see- Kompor-Thap, Selimpore, Surabayang, Myoshima, Rajahstan,
Malacayog. Yep. 6 of 'em.
Sorry about the duplicates, all; the original sendings didn't go through
for over 24 hours, so I tried again. Looks like they all caught up
eventually, though... :p
Andrew
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 20:33:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Patera Project: Rajahstan (fwd)
In a message dated 97-08-09 08:40:13 EDT, jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU (Cthulhudrew,
The Great Old One) writes:
<< Here's the next to last:
RAJAHSTAN
Location: Patera, Far Side. >>
The mentions of "Far Side" and "Near Side" imply that Patera always has
one hemisphere facing towards Mystara and the other facing away from
Mystara as ours does. Has this been established as true? If so, I have
reason to believe that Patera would have a day-night cycle of approximately
three Mystaran months -- far too long for comfort. Of course, we could
always come up with a magical theory about how Patera actually has a
much shorter cycle of day and night despite a very slow rotation....
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 01:09:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: B1Bard@aol.com
Subject: [Mystara] netMAG...
To read the netMAG, all you need is a text reader. "Write" works on PCs, and
SimpleText works for MACs. For those of you with AOL, you can simply use the
"open" command from the file menu to select the text file to read it, and no,
you don't have to be signed on to use that.
Also, remember that I tailored this stuff to AOL because that's where I was
uploading them before my web page and the mailing list and all that jive...
so it may not conform perfectly to your application choices.
Also, if you're online provider/browser/fetch/whatevet allows you to
decompress downloaded files when you sign off, I would recommend using this
feature witht he netMAGs, so you don't have to worry about how to decompress
offline.
Brant
b1bard@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/b1bard/
"Their citizens (all of them counted as such) lost track of their duties...
and glorified the mythology of 'rights.' No nation so constituted, can
survive."
Robert Heinlein "Starship Troopers"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 01:47:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: StarHawk <starhawk@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Search Engine Secrets
Has anyone told the Master of the List about this? I suppose he should be
the one to deal with it? (I forget his address.) Also does the mailing
list now add the [Mystara] tag on its own or did some spammer actually pay
attention when he wrote his subject line?
On Fri, 8 Aug 1997 vip@sesdelivery.net wrote:
> Dear Friend and Fellow Entrepreneur,
[spam I've seen twice now snipped]
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 01:43:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: StarHawk <starhawk@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Patera Project: Rajahstan (fwd)
On Sat, 9 Aug 1997 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 97-08-09 08:40:13 EDT, jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU (Cthulhudrew,
> The Great Old One) writes:
>
> << Here's the next to last:
>
> RAJAHSTAN
> Location: Patera, Far Side. >>
>
> The mentions of "Far Side" and "Near Side" imply that Patera always has
> one hemisphere facing towards Mystara and the other facing away from
> Mystara as ours does. Has this been established as true? If so, I have
> reason to believe that Patera would have a day-night cycle of approximately
> three Mystaran months -- far too long for comfort. Of course, we could
> always come up with a magical theory about how Patera actually has a
> much shorter cycle of day and night despite a very slow rotation....
>
Shouldn't it be one month? Since the months correspond exactly to the
lunar revolution, it would be halfway through night, "midnight" so to
speak, when the moon is new, and "noon" at the full moon. I think this
works out to about two days per hour, but its still kind of long for a
day.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 03:04:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Patera Project: Rajahstan (fwd)
In a message dated 97-08-10 02:48:09 EDT,
starhawk@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu (StarHawk) writes:
<< Shouldn't it be one month? Since the months correspond exactly to the
lunar revolution, it would be halfway through night, "midnight" so to
speak, when the moon is new, and "noon" at the full moon. I think this
works out to about two days per hour, but its still kind of long for a
day. >>
The visible moon (Matera) requires 28 Mystaran days to orbit Mystara --
but we are talking about Patera, the invisible moon. Our only clue to its
cycle is contained in the trail maps and a few other places -- notice that
Matera's risings and settings follow a physically impossible sequence
that repeats every three Mystaran months. I suggested that Matera's
apparent position in the Mystaran sky was displaced by magical optical
effects of the invisible moon -- thus, the three month cycle for Patera.
But even one month would be far too long a "day" for Patera -- without
magical intervention, the day would get very hot and the night very cold
as a result of the sun being overhead or out of sight for extended
periods of time. I would suggest that Patera has either the same length
day as Mystara or perhaps (for the sake of variety and an exotic feel to
the place) a day twice as long as Mystara -- enough different to confuse
off-world visitors, but not enough to make life on that world unbearable.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 20:09:12 +1300
From: Liam Jones <liamj@iconz.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Patera Project: Rajahstan (fwd)
>> The mentions of "Far Side" and "Near Side" imply that Patera always has
>> one hemisphere facing towards Mystara and the other facing away from
>> Mystara as ours does. Has this been established as true? If so, I have
>> reason to believe that Patera would have a day-night cycle of approximately
>> three Mystaran months -- far too long for comfort. Of course, we could
>> always come up with a magical theory about how Patera actually has a
>> much shorter cycle of day and night despite a very slow rotation....
>>
>Shouldn't it be one month? Since the months correspond exactly to the
>lunar revolution, it would be halfway through night, "midnight" so to
>speak, when the moon is new, and "noon" at the full moon. I think this
>works out to about two days per hour, but its still kind of long for a
>day.
Unless Mystara blocked out the light as Patera passed behind it? Then it
would be varying lengths of night and day.
- --------------------------------------------------------
Liam Jones Page me as soon as I log on at:
Auckland, New Zealand http://wwp.mirabilis.com/2272869
liamj@iconz.co.nz
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 13:29:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Patera Project: Rajahstan (fwd)
In a message dated 97-08-10 04:05:11 EDT, liamj@iconz.co.nz (Liam Jones)
writes:
<< Unless Mystara blocked out the light as Patera passed behind it? Then it
would be varying lengths of night and day. >>
That would provide a very brief eclipse in "mid-day" on the near side and
have no effect at all on the "Far Side", assuming that these concepts
indeed have any meaning -- and in the absence of any reason to inisit that
Patera is tidally locked to Mystara, I would definitely prefer to regard it
as having a rotation independent of its revolution and thus no "Near" or
"Far" sides as such.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 15:41:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Patera Project: Rajahstan (fwd)
Kaviyd@aol.com pontificated:
>
> << Unless Mystara blocked out the light as Patera passed behind it? Then it
> would be varying lengths of night and day. >>
>
> That would provide a very brief eclipse in "mid-day" on the near side and
> have no effect at all on the "Far Side", assuming that these concepts
> indeed have any meaning -- and in the absence of any reason to inisit that
> Patera is tidally locked to Mystara, I would definitely prefer to regard it
> as having a rotation independent of its revolution and thus no "Near" or
> "Far" sides as such.
>
I vaguely remember that the city of immortal on Patera (I don't
remember the name) is always pointing towards Mystara, which
would mean that Patera is tidal locked. Also, the "mid-day"
for near side will not always be eclipsed, as moon orbit could
be slightly out of plane, just like the real world moon.
John Yu
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 18:37:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Patera Project: Rajahstan (fwd)
>I vaguely remember that the city of immortal on Patera (I don't
>remember the name) is always pointing towards Mystara, which
>would mean that Patera is tidal locked. Also, the "mid-day"
>for near side will not always be eclipsed, as moon orbit could
>be slightly out of plane, just like the real world moon.
I might as well step in and point out a few "official" (but also "throw-
away-if-you-want-toable", as is all published data :) ) words on Mystara's
moons...
"Matera isn't very interesting to Mystaran adventurers - unless, of
course, they know of the gateway to the Immortal City of Pandius located
in one of Matera's large craters."
"Patera completes a full revolution around Mystara in three days and
twelve hours (or two revolutions per week). Patera follows an exact polar
orbit above the Known World, so that the moon passes above almost every
point on the globe. Patera does not have a rotation of its own. One
hemisphere (called Nearside) always faces Mystara, and viewers on the
opposite side of Patera (Farside) never see the world they orbit. The
pattern of day and night cycles on Patera is thus very complex because of
Mystara's axial tilt, which provides Patera's seasons. The sun appears to
wobble back and forth across the sky over a 3 1/2-day period as it also
appears to travel around the Patera globe along a great cycle every 336
days, Mystara's year. (Myoshiman calendars take a year of study to be
understood, and its inhabitants have no fixed cycle of wakefulness or
sleep.) Nearside usually continually receives a small amount of light
reflected from Mystara."
"Full daylight on Patera is not as bright as on Mystara, being more like
twilight. The sky changes color during a "day", ranging from fiery tones
at noon to tamer red and purple hues at dusk or dawn."
"Only Mystara, Matera, and the sun can be seen from Patera's surface."
I'll also state that, unfortunately, developing the Myoshiman calendar
seems to be beyond my abilities... :\ it might, actually, take a full year
to figure out. ;) If anybody else wants to try their hand at this project,
you're welcome to it. :)
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
Unofficial Official Keeper of the Unofficial Official Timeline of Mystara
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 02:29:24 +0200
From: Deathwatch <deathw@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [Mystara] Just something
Heyas,
I just got the Wrath of the Immortal and the Champions of Mystara boxed
sets. They are really cool.
I have a few questions, though:
Someone was working on an AD&D Immortal (Priest) list, I was wondering what
the status of it is.
Also, I'm about to purchase some new (well, old :) Mystara material, but I
dunno what is the best to buy. Anyone got suggestions?
Bas van Doornspeek - deathw@xs4all.nl
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 17:17:12 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Patera Project: Rajahstan (fwd)
On Sun, 10 Aug 1997, Shin Chyang Yu wrote:
> I vaguely remember that the city of immortal on Patera (I don't
> remember the name) is always pointing towards Mystara, which
> would mean that Patera is tidal locked. Also, the "mid-day"
> for near side will not always be eclipsed, as moon orbit could
> be slightly out of plane, just like the real world moon.
Pandius (the city of the Immortals) is on Matera, the visible moon, and
not Patera- the Rakasta moon.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 17:19:15 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Patera Project: Rajahstan (fwd)
On Sun, 10 Aug 1997, Daniel Boese wrote:
> I'll also state that, unfortunately, developing the Myoshiman calendar
> seems to be beyond my abilities... :\ it might, actually, take a full year
> to figure out. ;) If anybody else wants to try their hand at this project,
> you're welcome to it. :)
You stuck with it longer than I did, so your efforts are respectable,
Daniel. :)
I don't know if we'll ever get it right; that's why I just stuck with
Mystaran dates for those dates that I did note thus far... :(
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 17:14:56 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Patera Project: Rajahstan (fwd)
On Sat, 9 Aug 1997 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote:
> The mentions of "Far Side" and "Near Side" imply that Patera always has
> one hemisphere facing towards Mystara and the other facing away from
> Mystara as ours does. Has this been established as true?
Yes. In the various writeups on Patera (from the Dragon #160? issue, to
the identical writeup in Champions of Mystara), it was established that
one side of Patera always faces Mystara.
> If so, I have reason to believe that Patera would have a day-night
> cycle of approximately three Mystaran months -- far too long for
> comfort. Of course, we could always come up with a magical theory
> about how Patera actually has a much shorter cycle of day and night
> despite a very slow rotation....
This was one of my problems, and why I didn't come up with an indigenous
Pateran calendar of my own. Bruce mentions how the rotation works, for
the most part, and notes that there is almost always light on Patera- I
forget exactly what was said- so that the residents of the moon have no
real established waking/sleeping times, like on Mystara. It's almost
analogous to the Hollow World's red sun in some ways.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 20:33:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Patera Project: Rajahstan (fwd)
In a message dated 97-08-10 16:50:47 EDT, scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu
writes:
<< I vaguely remember that the city of immortal on Patera (I don't
remember the name) is always pointing towards Mystara, which
would mean that Patera is tidal locked. Also, the "mid-day"
for near side will not always be eclipsed, as moon orbit could
be slightly out of plane, just like the real world moon. >>
The Immortal city of Pandius is on the lifeless, visible moon of Mystara,
which is called Matera. There is no question but that this moon is tidally
locked with Mystara. However, the invisible, inhabited moon Patera (the
topic of this discussion) is another matter entirely. Since that moon is
invisible, we have no directo observation that it is tidally locked, and the
fact that it is inhabited makes it likely that it is not tidally locked.
As for the eclipses -- of course it is by no means certain that eclipses
occur every cycle of Patera, and in fact I would suspect that they would
not occur at all because of the probably greater distance of Patera (as
opposed to Matera) from Mystara. Eclipses of Matera, of course,
occur every year on the days indicated in various Mystaran calendars.
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V2 #123
*****************************
From: owner-mystara-digest@ (mystara-digest)
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #124
Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
Sender: owner-mystara-digest@
Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@
Precedence: bulk
mystara-digest Wednesday, August 13 1997 Volume 02 : Number 124
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 01:26:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Patera Project: Rajahstan (fwd)
>As for the eclipses -- of course it is by no means certain that eclipses
>occur every cycle of Patera, and in fact I would suspect that they would
>not occur at all because of the probably greater distance of Patera (as
>opposed to Matera) from Mystara. Eclipses of Matera, of course,
>occur every year on the days indicated in various Mystaran calendars.
Just a quick note - Matera orbits 238,600 miles above Mystara's surface,
while Patera orbits a scant 34,200 miles above Mystara's surface.
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 01:55:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Patera's revolution
Okay, I have found the reference in Dragon #160 that totally invalidates my
own theories about Patera. Bruce Heard's article in that issue describes
Patera as orbiting Mystara in 3 1/2 days (thus making it closer to Mystara
than Matera rather than farther away). Patera is indeed tidally locked and
thus has a longer (and, according to Bruce Heard) more complex cycle of
day and night than Mystara does.
But since I am determined not to abandon a good explanation of Matera's
anomalous cycles, I hereby suggest that Mystara must have a distant,
invisible third moon that orbits Mystara every three months and causes
the observed distortions in Matera's position. Whoever or whatever lives
on that moon must be very good at remaining hidden, as it took until now
for anybody to divine their very eixstence.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 02:45:38 PDT
From: "Herve Musseau" <herve@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Mystara] Lupins
I read the Lupin article in Dragon last week, and I have some questions
for you Bruce (and I'm sure I was not the only one to be surprised by
some parts of your article).
Ok, first, an easy one : Why is the Cimmaron Hairless named that way,
since it has more to do with SE than Cimmaron?
Ok now the big stuff : How can the Renardois (or at least that noble of
them) be aware of the existence of such things as the Nithians, the
Hutaakans, or the Hollow World?
I mean, in the novel The Black Vessel, the sage Mazrooth did not even
know the Nithians existed, and he spent his life working on the subject.
Besides, the Immortals have long ago cast their spell that negated all
memory of the Nithians, so written records/memories should have been
destroyed/erased for the Lupins as well. How can they know so many
details on a part of history that so many ignore, even in more
"civilized" countries (I mean the Known World)? And worse, how could
they know about the HW, since until very recently (the return of
Claransa) the HW was unknown to all but some exceptional individuals,
and top Alphatians and HK.
Did you had anything in mind in relation to the novel when you wrote
your article? I guess so. Then what are your ideas for the future? I am
working for the 1015 almanac on events for that region, events that
include the Yazi gnolls and Hutaakans among others. Your article implies
many things, including a possible relationship between the lupin
followers of Pflarr and the Hutaakan Yazi, and more. Well, this is
opening a new dimension of possibilities here I'll try to include (maybe
not for 1015 but after, it depends on the pace of events in the SC).
PS : Papillon translates as Butterfly and Museau d'Aboisfort means
literally Snort of Bark-Loudly.
__________________________________________________________
Herve Musseau
Primary Email: herve@hotmail.com
Also: hmusseau@compuserve.com
Also: musseauh@esiee.fr (old, no more in use)
Homepage: http://www.esiee.fr/~musseauh (not for very long)
I'm a QSQWBEEEGGNFR Mystaran
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 21:07:06 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Just something
On Mon, 11 Aug 1997, Deathwatch wrote:
> Heyas,
>
> I just got the Wrath of the Immortal and the Champions of Mystara boxed
> sets. They are really cool.
>
> I have a few questions, though:
>
> Someone was working on an AD&D Immortal (Priest) list, I was wondering what
> the status of it is.
> Also, I'm about to purchase some new (well, old :) Mystara material, but I
> dunno what is the best to buy. Anyone got suggestions?
If you dont have any GAz's, that should be priority one.
Good ones include Glantri andAlfheim(even though alfheim is no more, it
give
a lot of info on mystaran elves)
Ethengar and Northern Reaches are pretty good, though they are rather
different from normal fantasy campaigns as you probably know.
The Dawn of the Emperors contains much information, however..far from
enough.
all of the gaz's are really good, and if you want to play Red Steel, that
set is good too...
Havard
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: 11 Aug 1997 16:07:36 -0500
From: Alan Shutko <ats@acm.org>
Subject: [Mystara] Re: Just something
>>>>> "H" == Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no> writes:
H> even though alfheim is no more
That's assuming you're playing _after_ WotI, not before or during.
In fact, I'm not sure I ant WotI to turn out as the books say in my
campaign... I'm too sentimental.
- --
Alan Shutko <ats@acm.org> - By consent of the corrupted
Amiga. Because a man can never have too many tasks.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 17:46:30 -0500
From: Rob Rickard <cmnwrld@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Just something
> Alan Shutko wrote:
>
>> >>>>> "H" == Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no> writes:
>>
>> H> even though alfheim is no more
>>
>> That's assuming you're playing _after_ WotI, not before or during.
>>
>> In fact, I'm not sure I ant WotI to turn out as the books say in my
>> campaign... I'm too sentimental.
>
I have a great campaign where many Pc heros are uncovering what the
shadow elf's are up to and may save Alfheim. Too early to tell yet.
IMC most of the know world and very few elfs believe in the shadow elf
race. only elders and few others who have dug up new info truly
believe. IMC I have left the shadow race apart for mystara races. I
have them played up as a Mystara legend.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 21:21:05 -0400
From: "John W. Mangrum" <iggy@capital.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Horrible class (in my opinion)
Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote:
>
> Well, our own too, but its much more fun to pick on the swedes? Any of you
> here? :)
It's always fun to pick on Swedes. On of my best friends a few years
back was Swedish, and sadly for him I was one of the first Americans he
got to know. Thanks to me, he spent a few weeks convinced that "chicken
feed" was some horribly vile American saying...
>
> Sorry about this slightly off topic mail..
>
And I apologize for my absolutely off-topic mail (I'm still coming down
off of my first Gen Con, so forgive me.)
J.W.Mangrum
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 01:56:27 +0100
From: Thorfinn Tait <Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupins
On Mon, 11 Aug 1997 Herve Musseau <herve@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Ok, first, an easy one : Why is the Cimmaron Hairless named that way,
>since it has more to do with SE than Cimmaron?
I wondered that too. Is it perhaps just a name that has little
relevance to where the dog actually comes from? I have a feeling there
are some real world dogs like that too.
>Ok now the big stuff : How can the Renardois (or at least that noble of
>them) be aware of the existence of such things as the Nithians, the
>Hutaakans, or the Hollow World?
<snip>
Awareness of history within the campaign world, especially when it comes
to "simple" things repeated over and over in the timelines, and even
down to simple things like the names - "do the sages of the world know
the names of Blackmoor and Nithia?" or "do the ordinary peasants know
those names?" - has always been a tricky subject as far as I am
concerned. The Black Vessel made me wonder even more, since it was
quite clearly shown that there was very little knowledge that the
Nithians even existed, let alone that they were called "Nithians", or
that they are related to the modern Ylari.
The Hollow World issue also brought this issue to a head, though I am
quoting here only the two most obvious and best documented examples.
On a side note, has anyone ever noticed that there is actually still a
river called Nithia in the Known World? I must admit I only found it
earlier this year, and it came as quite a pleasant surprise.
>Did you had anything in mind in relation to the novel when you wrote
>your article? I guess so. Then what are your ideas for the future? I am
>working for the 1015 almanac on events for that region, events that
>include the Yazi gnolls and Hutaakans among others. Your article implies
>many things, including a possible relationship between the lupin
>followers of Pflarr and the Hutaakan Yazi, and more. Well, this is
>opening a new dimension of possibilities here I'll try to include (maybe
>not for 1015 but after, it depends on the pace of events in the SC).
From Bruce's article I get the impression that the Long-runners of El
Grande Carrascal in The Black Vessel are actually Lupins with strong
Hutaakan heritage, as are presumably those north of the Serpent
Peninsula. Was that your intention, Bruce?
Anyway, it certainly makes things more interesting, if indeed they are
lupins. Plus, it gives us some "rules" documentation of the Long-
runners' existence beyond just a novel (which many people would not
consider completely "canonical" for their campaigns).
>PS : Papillon translates as Butterfly and Museau d'Aboisfort means
>literally Snort of Bark-Loudly.
<grin>
Thorf.
=========================================
"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."
- Bilbo Baggins, "The Lord of the Rings"
Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk
Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline
=========================================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:17:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupins
In a message dated 97-08-11 07:01:26 EDT, herve@hotmail.com writes:
<< PS : Papillon translates as Butterfly and Museau d'Aboisfort means
literally Snort of Bark-Loudly. >>
And from what Bruce has said about his background, we have good
reason to believe that he knew exactly what he was doing with those
names....
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 01:25:34 -0700
From: Sebastian Quiles <sq7s@dc.uba.ar>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Testing...
Ambreville@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-08-07 19:34:46 EDT, you write:
>
> << Just testing... my Patera posts haven't shown up yet... I'm wondering why
> the delay... >>
>
> Maybe Patera went to genCon also! :)
>
> Bruce Heard
Hello guys! nice to meet you... I have a doubt... What it's genCon???
- --
Sebastian Quiles
Universidad de Buenos Aires - ARGENTINA
mailto:sq7s@dc.uba.ar
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 08:46:53 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupins
On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Thorfinn Tait wrote:
> Awareness of history within the campaign world, especially when it comes
> to "simple" things repeated over and over in the timelines, and even
> down to simple things like the names - "do the sages of the world know
> the names of Blackmoor and Nithia?" or "do the ordinary peasants know
> those names?" - has always been a tricky subject as far as I am
> concerned. The Black Vessel made me wonder even more, since it was
> quite clearly shown that there was very little knowledge that the
> Nithians even existed, let alone that they were called "Nithians", or
> that they are related to the modern Ylari.
Yet there is an Emirate of Nithia still, in Ylaruam, where the people of
that place have a history shrouded in mystery. There was also a recent
uncovering of a Nithian tomb- anyone remember the curse of Nennaya-Sherat
from the PWAs a few years back? It seemed fairly well known that she was
a Pharaoh from the Nithian era.
In fact, I'd say that there are enough references to Nithia in a variety
of sources (Haldemar makes note of the place on more than one occasion,
IIRC) that (GAZ2 aside) it is fairly well known that it once existed,
even if modern day scholars may be a bit vague on specifics.
I haven't read The Black Vessel, but I'd assume that (like most of the
D&D novels) it's not exactly considered canonical.
> On a side note, has anyone ever noticed that there is actually still a
> river called Nithia in the Known World? I must admit I only found it
> earlier this year, and it came as quite a pleasant surprise.
And the Emirate of Nithia, which is located rather nearby.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 21:19:36 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Just something
At 17.46 11/08/97 -0500, Rob Rickard wrote:
>IMC I have left the shadow race apart for mystara races. I
>have them played up as a Mystara legend.
>
I think they should be played as a legend, unless you're running a Shadow
Elf campaign...
Until the invasion of Alfheim in 1007 (?) nobody, except Alfheimers,
believes that Shadow Elves really exists. There's a nice paragraph about
this in Gaz 13: a Glantrian teacher in the Great School of Magic that
explains to his students that the Shadow Elves are a legend created by King
Doriath to better rule on his subjects!
- --------------
Fabrizio Paoli
brizio@lunet.it
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
- --------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 23:16:27 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupins
On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Thorfinn Tait wrote:
> On a side note, has anyone ever noticed that there is actually still a
> river called Nithia in the Known World? I must admit I only found it
> earlier this year, and it came as quite a pleasant surprise.
I do believ that river dissapears somewhere near Rockhome and reappears in
Hollow World..Interesting right?
Haavard
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 23:09:02 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Just something
On Mon, 11 Aug 1997, Rob Rickard wrote:
> I have a great campaign where many Pc heros are uncovering what the
> shadow elf's are up to and may save Alfheim. Too early to tell yet.
> IMC most of the know world and very few elfs believe in the shadow elf
> race. only elders and few others who have dug up new info truly
> believe. IMC I have left the shadow race apart for mystara races. I
> have them played up as a Mystara legend.
Interesting. what about the Moulder Dwarves? Those pesky litle critters
living below the Northern Reaches using their nasty dark rituals refusing
to show themselves to the civilized world. Any thoughts on those?
Havard
If anyone is wondering whether my first name is spelled with one or two
a's I'll just tell you that it isnt. It's spelled with some obscure, pesky
little letter that isn't in everyones alfabeth. BTW, I'm feeling pesky
today...
- ----
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 23:04:01 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Just something
On 11 Aug 1997, Alan Shutko wrote:
> >>>>> "H" == Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no> writes:
>
> H> even though alfheim is no more
>
> That's assuming you're playing _after_ WotI, not before or during.
>
> In fact, I'm not sure I ant WotI to turn out as the books say in my
> campaign... I'm too sentimental.
That'll give you another reson to go and buy Alfheim. The Gaz, not the
fictionous geographic area.
Sorry about being so presoumptious about you using the cannonocal
timeline. I'm trying to start a new campaign in AC 1000 Karameikos. One
good rule when buying Mystara stuff is: Gett the D&D stuff before you get
the AD&D stuff. Some would say "dont bother to get the AD&D stuff at all",
but I am one of those guys who has to have EVERYTHING, so I buy the AD&D
stuff as well. I got the impression you were using AD&D rules, so geting
the AD&D setting material, might not be such a bad idea, but get the D&D
stuff first so you'll know what to ignore from the AD&D version.
right.
Haavard
- ---
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:53:12 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupins
On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote:
> I do believ that river dissapears somewhere near Rockhome and reappears in
> Hollow World..Interesting right?
I think that the river Nithia on the surface and in the Hollow World are
two different rivers, actually... Nithia in the HW is located very far
from Ylaruam in the above world.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 18:42:40 -0500
From: Rob Rickard <cmnwrld@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Just something
Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Aug 1997, Rob Rickard wrote:
>
> > I have a great campaign where many Pc heros are uncovering what the
> > shadow elf's are up to and may save Alfheim. Too early to tell yet.
>
> > IMC most of the know world and very few elfs believe in the shadow
> elf
> > race. only elders and few others who have dug up new info truly
> > believe. IMC I have left the shadow race apart for mystara races.
> I
> > have them played up as a Mystara legend.
>
Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote:
> Interesting. what about the Moulder Dwarves? Those pesky litle
> critters
> living below the Northern Reaches using their nasty dark rituals
> refusing
> to show themselves to the civilized world. Any thoughts on those?
>
I have not done anything with them. I cant even remember much about
them. I just might look them up again.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 23:07:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Just something
In a message dated 97-08-12 17:19:56 EDT, brizio@lunet.it writes:
<< Until the invasion of Alfheim in 1007 (?) nobody, except Alfheimers,
believes that Shadow Elves really exists. There's a nice paragraph about
this in Gaz 13: a Glantrian teacher in the Great School of Magic that
explains to his students that the Shadow Elves are a legend created by King
Doriath to better rule on his subjects! >>
Of course, after the invasion the books are quickly altered to indicate that
of course Shadow Elves are real, they have always been real, and everybody
in Glantri has always known that they were real.... It is the Alfheim Elves
that are mythical!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 00:31:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ambreville@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupins
In a message dated 97-08-12 06:17:25 EDT, Thorf writes:
<<< On Mon, 11 Aug 1997 Herve Musseau <herve@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Ok, first, an easy one : Why is the Cimmaron Hairless named that way,
>since it has more to do with SE than Cimmaron?
I wondered that too. Is it perhaps just a name that has little
relevance to where the dog actually comes from? I have a feeling there
are some real world dogs like that too. >>>
Yes. The Cimarron Hairless was inspired from the Mexican Hairless dog, a RW
dog breed. I thought it came pretty close to snuff for a Guardiano creature
and the origins of Cimarron.
Bruce Heard
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 00:31:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ambreville@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupins
In a message dated 97-08-12 00:33:35 EDT, Kavyid writes:
<<< In a message dated 97-08-11 07:01:26 EDT, herve@hotmail.com writes:
<< PS : Papillon translates as Butterfly and Museau d'Aboisfort means
literally Snort of Bark-Loudly. >>
And from what Bruce has said about his background, we have good
reason to believe that he knew exactly what he was doing with those
names.... >>>
The name was intended -- Papillon IS a RW dog breed (a small dog with large
fluffy ears that look like the wings of a butterfly). The allusion also was
to a French novel, and later movies including one with Steve McQueen --
called Papillon -- a prisonner seeking to escape a French hard labor prison
faraway in overseas colonies.
Actually, the correct translation for Sire Museau (...) should be Snout of
Bark-Loudly. Anything wrong with that? :)
PS -- I've been stuck in GenCon mode from early August to last Sunday, after
which I went straight to the hospital for our son's birth. This took 48
difficult hours and then some, but finally, Beatrice and Bruce Heard are
proud to announce the birth of their son, Noel, on this day of August 12.
Incidentally, I got back home late this evening -- which explains why I
haven't answered much of all your posts. I'll start by a few short ones, and
then hit the sack since I'm beginning to fall asleep. :)
Bruce Heard
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 00:32:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ambreville@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupins
In a message dated 97-08-12 06:17:25 EDT, Thorf also writes:
<<< >Ok now the big stuff : How can the Renardois (or at least that noble of
>them) be aware of the existence of such things as the Nithians, the
>Hutaakans, or the Hollow World?
<snip>
Awareness of history within the campaign world, especially when it comes
to "simple" things repeated over and over in the timelines, and even
down to simple things like the names - "do the sages of the world know
the names of Blackmoor and Nithia?" or "do the ordinary peasants know
those names?" - has always been a tricky subject as far as I am
concerned. >>>
<<<snip>>>
Okay -- here's how I got there. The Norwold Malamutes, IIRC, were described
as trans-polar rovers who commonly travel back and forth from the Hollow
World to surface-Mystara. In their many expeditions inside, they did
eventually run across the truth about Nithia and returned with their
knowledge about the original ancient Nithia (the HW as well naturally), and
thus information about their own origins. This eventually found its way back
to Renardy.
<<From Bruce's article I get the impression that the Long-runners of El
Grande Carrascal in The Black Vessel are actually Lupins with strong
Hutaakan heritage, as are presumably those north of the Serpent
Peninsula. Was that your intention, Bruce?>>
You lost me here. I modelled the long-runners after the RW greyhound dogs.
Off hand, I don't recall a specific connection with the Grande Carracascal.
Was there a Long-Runner hero mentioned in the Black Vessel? If so -- my using
it is purely accidental. (The Black Vessel is not entirely *canonical*, as
you like to call it, as is also the case for many TSR novels with their game
worlds). El Grande Carrascal would be the land of predilection for the
Carrasquito, the lupin version of RW chihuahua dog. The term Carrasquito
comes from mixing Carrascal with Mosquito. Either way, no direct
relationship to the Hutaakans. :)
Bruce Heard
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:39:35 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Patera Project: some thoughts
Hi again to everyone! I'm back only for a few days, but i'll be fully
available to the list after the 20th of August. In the meantime, i'd like to
make some comments on Andrew's project about Patera and its kingdoms.
Cthulhudrew wrote:
MYOSHIMA (Empire of)
<< Coinage:>>
What about bars like the Ethengarian ones and that oval shaped coins with a
square hole in the middle (the name escapes me at the moment) used in
Medieval Japan?
<< Government Type: Semiautonomous provinces owing fealty to a central
Emperor.>>
I am a bit confused here: is the Shogun the Japanese Emperor or some high
ranking courtisan at the emperor's service? I don't remember it so if
someone could fill this is for me: it's just a curiosity
<snipped the initial history>
<<The moon of Patera is known for its often torrentially stormy weather;
monsoons are a common sight. One curious side effect of this is the
generation of strange vortexes, seeming tornadoes, in the air. Many
hundreds of years ago, a Myoshiman Rakasta wokani attempted to explore
one of these vortexes, known as Kamikaze ('Divine Wind') among
Myoshimans. Mounted on his flying sabretooth tiger,>>
Mmh.. i don't have the Dragon issue detailing Myoshima, so it's maybe a lack
in my background info, but i didn't know the myoshimans had flying
sabretooth tigers. How do they look like and where do they come from?
(crossbreed of eagles and sabretooth tigers seems unlikely :))
<another snip>
<< There they landed on the island of Ochalea, c.800 BC (Mystaran calendar).
(Note: It is suspected by Alphatian sages who documented this expedition at
a later date that the increase of Vortigern's Vortexes on Patera was caused
by massive changes in the climate of the Known World around the same time-
notably the raising of the Atruaghin Plateau and the creation of the Canolbarth
forest, both events which created massive disruptions in the climate of
the region of the Known World that Patera happened to be in orbit above
during this time.)>>
Ok, this is probably the only thing i really didn't understand about your
explanation. I liked the connection of Myoshimans to Ochaleans, but i didn't
like this bit about the cause of Votigern Vortexes in Patera. I really don't
see how some climatic changes (though amazing ones, i admit this) in
Mystara's weather pattern can influence Patera weather pattern. It's like
saying that every cyclone or whirlwind that appears on Mystara can influence
Patera's atmosphere if it's passing over the source of the atmospheric
phenomenon. I don't really think so. Besides, if the things really went this
way, why didn't the Vortexes connect Patera with those places which had
originated them (namely Alfheim and Atruaghin's plateau), instead of
transoprting them thousands of miles away in Ochalea?
As i've already said, I really like your idea of Ochaleans being those who
originated Myoshiman culture, but i don't agree with you on this part
detailing the cause of the Vortigern Vortexes that transported rakastas to
Mystara. Better not to connect the Vortexes and the magical changes in
Mystara weather pattern IMHO.
The problem of how and where the Ochalean culture developed still remains,
however (MOrient, hello??)
<snip>
<<Around 600 BC, Ochalean humans entered into an alliance with the
nearby Alphatian humans, who were beginning to venture further afield in
their own attempt to create an empire. The Ochaleans, with their
Alphatian allies, drove out the Rakastan upstarts, scattering them. Many
Rakasta fled to various regions of the Known World; a small but powerful
group returned back the way their ancestors had come- to the moon of
Patera.>>
Good one. But then in your entry for Rahjastan you say that those rakastas
were the real ancestors of the Isle of Dread and Bellayne rakastas. So my
question is: where did these Ochalean rakastas flee after the expulsion??
<snip a big part>
<<In 961 AC, a group of Heldannic Knights, increasingly curious about
Bellaynish activity, explored beyond the Skyshield of Mystara and
discover the moon of Patera.>>
Hey, wait! Here you mention Bellayninsh activity in Patera, and in the
entry for Selimpore you say that Rakastas from Bellayne discovered and
colonized (or better, conquered) that part of Patera. Now, my question is:
how did these rakastas manage to reach up to the moon and come back??? IIRC
Bellayne has no skyships nor flying sabretooth tigers, so where's the trick??
I also do like and support your idea of Selimpore being a colony of
Bellayne (an India-UK parallel in RW), provided you explain me how the
Bellayne rakastas managed to go up there :)
RAJAHSTAN
Now about Rajahstan, that's one really tough to explain. I like the idea
of Pyrithians carrying rakastas to Mystara as slaves, but the were-rakastas
that become rakshasas is a bit too forced IMO. Besides, rakshasas are famed
and feared for their power to spin illusions and cast other tricky spells:
how do you explain these powers using only lycanthropy?? IMO the rakshasas
can be related to rakastas, but in a different way. They may have originated
in Sind during the reign of the shapeshifters, as the result of a
crossbreeding experiment of a mad (or powerhungry) wizard, maybe the same
one who was spreading lycanthropy throughout the world. Their spell-like
abilities would have thus been "inserted" in their genetic code from the
very beginning by their creator, who later fled when discovered and left his
"breed" to cope with angry Sindhi who threatened to destroy them and all
their cousins (rakastas and rakshasas can be sometimes mistaken for one
another).
Another thing is the connection between the Sindhi and the Rajahstan
culture. It is my opinion that it may have gone as u suggested, that's to
say that Rakshasa and rakastas staying in Sind migrated to Patera and
settled in Rajahstan, but i also think that given the rakshasas powers and
cunning, they might have been able to take seats in the ruling body of
Rajahstan, so that now a good half if not more of the twelve realms are
ruled by Rakshasas. Wether they hide their real nature using illusions or
not it's yet to decide.
As another side note, i really liked your Kompor-Thap entry, but i have a
question: how do u explain the Ganetra golem in Shajapur? As u said, he
attained immortality in AC 460, that's to say AFTER the transplantation of
Shajapur to the HW. So if he's now venerated there, he must have made
himself known to the Shajapuri in the HW: how? Have you got ideas?
Anyway, great work Andrew! Hope we can put it in the Almanac with an
appropriate narrator for those nations (Emiles Verne-Salgari from Averoigne
would be a good candidate) ;)
DM
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 01:40:43 PDT
From: "Herve Musseau" <herve@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupins
>In a message dated 97-08-12 00:33:35 EDT, Kavyid writes:
>
><<< In a message dated 97-08-11 07:01:26 EDT, herve@hotmail.com writes:
>
> << PS : Papillon translates as Butterfly and Museau d'Aboisfort means
> literally Snort of Bark-Loudly. >>
>
> And from what Bruce has said about his background, we have good
> reason to believe that he knew exactly what he was doing with those
> names.... >>>
>
>The name was intended -- Papillon IS a RW dog breed (a small dog with
large
>fluffy ears that look like the wings of a butterfly). The allusion also
was
>to a French novel, and later movies including one with Steve McQueen --
>called Papillon -- a prisonner seeking to escape a French hard labor
prison
>faraway in overseas colonies.
>
>Actually, the correct translation for Sire Museau (...) should be Snout
of
>Bark-Loudly. Anything wrong with that? :)
Oops sorry, a typo from me...
>PS -- I've been stuck in GenCon mode from early August to last Sunday,
after
>which I went straight to the hospital for our son's birth. This took 48
>difficult hours and then some, but finally, Beatrice and Bruce Heard
are
>proud to announce the birth of their son, Noel, on this day of August
12.
Congratulations.
BTW, now that we know the origins of your dogs' names (sorta), why did
you name your son Noel if he was borne on August? ;) (ok, 8.5 months ago
there was Christmas, this may explain that, hmmm)
(ok that's a joke, you don't have to reply Bruce :)
>Incidentally, I got back home late this evening -- which explains why I
>haven't answered much of all your posts. I'll start by a few short
ones, and
>then hit the sack since I'm beginning to fall asleep. :)
>
>Bruce Heard
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 01:53:16 PDT
From: "Herve Musseau" <herve@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupins
>In a message dated 97-08-12 06:17:25 EDT, Thorf also writes:
>
><<< >Ok now the big stuff : How can the Renardois (or at least that
noble of
> >them) be aware of the existence of such things as the Nithians,
the
> >Hutaakans, or the Hollow World?
>
> <snip>
>
> Awareness of history within the campaign world, especially when it
comes
> to "simple" things repeated over and over in the timelines, and even
> down to simple things like the names - "do the sages of the world know
> the names of Blackmoor and Nithia?" or "do the ordinary peasants know
> those names?" - has always been a tricky subject as far as I am
> concerned. >>>
>
><<<snip>>>
>
>Okay -- here's how I got there. The Norwold Malamutes, IIRC, were
described
>as trans-polar rovers who commonly travel back and forth from the
Hollow
>World to surface-Mystara. In their many expeditions inside, they did
>eventually run across the truth about Nithia and returned with their
>knowledge about the original ancient Nithia (the HW as well naturally),
and
>thus information about their own origins. This eventually found its way
back
>to Renardy.
Ok that explains how they know about Nithia and the HW (although I still
find it hard to believe that Lupins of Renardy know it and no humans
from the KW..)
><<From Bruce's article I get the impression that the Long-runners of El
>Grande Carrascal in The Black Vessel are actually Lupins with strong
>Hutaakan heritage, as are presumably those north of the Serpent
>Peninsula. Was that your intention, Bruce?>>
>
>You lost me here. I modelled the long-runners after the RW greyhound
dogs.
>Off hand, I don't recall a specific connection with the Grande
Carracascal.
>Was there a Long-Runner hero mentioned in the Black Vessel? If so -- my
using
>it is purely accidental. (The Black Vessel is not entirely *canonical*,
as
>you like to call it, as is also the case for many TSR novels with their
game
>worlds). El Grande Carrascal would be the land of predilection for the
>Carrasquito, the lupin version of RW chihuahua dog. The term
Carrasquito
>comes from mixing Carrascal with Mosquito. Either way, no direct
>relationship to the Hutaakans. :)
He probably meant the Long-Legs of El Grande Carrascal, hence the
confusion.
Bruce, if you haven't read the Black Vessel as you seem to imply (what
were you doing at TSR exactly? Oh yes, product editor for the Mystara
line ;) then you should, that's one of the few Mystara novels that did
have interesting stuff, relevant to Mystara, obviously written by
someone who did some researches on the world before he wrote his book
(unlike the Penhaligon trilogy or the Dark Knight of Karameikos which
were obviously backplaced there but do not really fit and have big
Mystara-wise mistakes). If you read the book you'll understand why I
asked you the question about the connection between the your article and
the book. I know you're now a daddy and you may be actively searching a
new job, but try the book when you have some spare time...
>Bruce Heard
__________________________________________________________
Herve Musseau
Primary Email: herve@hotmail.com
Also: hmusseau@compuserve.com
Also: musseauh@esiee.fr (old, no more in use)
Homepage: http://www.esiee.fr/~musseauh (not for very long)
I'm a QSQWBEEEGGNFR Mystaran
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:07:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ray Brooks <rabrooks@bg1.UWaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupins
Congratulations Bruce!
I'm surprised you're not asleep already. Don't kill yourself, eh?
ray
> PS -- I've been stuck in GenCon mode from early August to last Sunday, after
> which I went straight to the hospital for our son's birth. This took 48
> difficult hours and then some, but finally, Beatrice and Bruce Heard are
> proud to announce the birth of their son, Noel, on this day of August 12.
> Incidentally, I got back home late this evening -- which explains why I
> haven't answered much of all your posts. I'll start by a few short ones, and
> then hit the sack since I'm beginning to fall asleep. :)
>
> Bruce Heard
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:29:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ray Brooks <rabrooks@bg1.UWaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Patera Project: some thoughts
Some more thoughts...
> What about bars like the Ethengarian ones and that oval shaped coins with a
> square hole in the middle (the name escapes me at the moment) used in
> Medieval Japan?
I like these options. Also, wasn't the orient the first area to develop
the use of paper money? I may be wrong, but, hey, its an idea....
> << Government Type: Semiautonomous provinces owing fealty to a central
> Emperor.>>
>
> I am a bit confused here: is the Shogun the Japanese Emperor or some high
> ranking courtisan at the emperor's service? I don't remember it so if
> someone could fill this is for me: it's just a curiosity
If I remember correctly, shoguns were Japanese feudal warlords. I don't
know if they were "pre-empire" in the real world (I'm not really up
on my Japanese history) but Japan was a very upset and turbulent
place under the rule of feuding shoguns.
Maybe the "semiautonomous provinces" could be ruled by shoguns that answer
to the emperor...?
ray
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 08:25:07 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: [Mystara] It's a Boy! (Was: Lupins)
On Wed, 13 Aug 1997 Ambreville@aol.com wrote:
> PS -- I've been stuck in GenCon mode from early August to last Sunday, after
> which I went straight to the hospital for our son's birth. This took 48
> difficult hours and then some, but finally, Beatrice and Bruce Heard are
> proud to announce the birth of their son, Noel, on this day of August 12.
> Incidentally, I got back home late this evening -- which explains why I
> haven't answered much of all your posts. I'll start by a few short ones, and
> then hit the sack since I'm beginning to fall asleep. :)
Congratulations, Bruce!
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V2 #124
*****************************
From: owner-mystara-digest@ (mystara-digest)
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #125
Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
Sender: owner-mystara-digest@
Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@
Precedence: bulk
mystara-digest Saturday, August 16 1997 Volume 02 : Number 125
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:07:05 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Patera Project: some thoughts
On Wed, 13 Aug 1997, DM wrote:
> Mmh.. i don't have the Dragon issue detailing Myoshima, so it's maybe a lack
> in my background info, but i didn't know the myoshimans had flying
> sabretooth tigers. How do they look like and where do they come from?
> (crossbreed of eagles and sabretooth tigers seems unlikely :))
There was actually a bit of confusion on this issue. The artwork in #160
shows winged tigers. In the same article (IIRC), Haldemar mentions flying
collars that allow them to fly, but then in a later article (when the PA
is chasing Herr Rolf), the tigers are winged once more. You'll have to
ask Bruce what the deal was for sure. :)
> Ok, this is probably the only thing i really didn't understand about your
> explanation. I liked the connection of Myoshimans to Ochaleans, but i didn't
> like this bit about the cause of Votigern Vortexes in Patera. I really don't
> see how some climatic changes (though amazing ones, i admit this) in
> Mystara's weather pattern can influence Patera weather pattern. It's like
> saying that every cyclone or whirlwind that appears on Mystara can influence
> Patera's atmosphere if it's passing over the source of the atmospheric
> phenomenon. I don't really think so. Besides, if the things really went this
> way, why didn't the Vortexes connect Patera with those places which had
> originated them (namely Alfheim and Atruaghin's plateau), instead of
> transoprting them thousands of miles away in Ochalea?
For one thing, Patera would have still been in motion, orbiting Mystara,
so the Rakasta would end up wherever they happened to by orbiting over at
that time (which, for convenience's sake, I supposed was Ochalea). The
main thing was, I wanted some sort of plausible (plausible for a magical
fantasy world) way to get them down to the surface of our favorite
planet, and the VV explanation, in conjunction with Japanese myths about
divine winds, seemed to best fit. Then I thought, why suddenly all these
VVs now, instead of earlier or later? Their migration tied in with
climactic changes on the planet around then, and since the moons can
affect the planet's tides, etc, why not the reverse as well?
That was the reasoning, but I'd be more than happy to hear alternative
theories. :)
> Good one. But then in your entry for Rahjastan you say that those rakastas
> were the real ancestors of the Isle of Dread and Bellayne rakastas. So my
> question is: where did these Ochalean rakastas flee after the expulsion??
*shrug* They could have gone all over the place, like the Lupins. :)
> Hey, wait! Here you mention Bellayninsh activity in Patera, and in the
> entry for Selimpore you say that Rakastas from Bellayne discovered and
> colonized (or better, conquered) that part of Patera. Now, my question is:
> how did these rakastas manage to reach up to the moon and come back??? IIRC
> Bellayne has no skyships nor flying sabretooth tigers, so where's the trick??
Ummm... I didn't really give this one much thought, either, was just
toying with the concept at the moment. :(
> RAJAHSTAN
>
[On the Rakshasa bit]
The Rakshasa, as I have them, aren't exactly like the Rakshasa of AD&D.
They are more a strange result of lycanthropy affecting the Rakasta
population, and while they have some new and different abilities, aren't
all that different from the rest of the Rakasta population; Rakshasa is
simply a Sindhi word given them that distinguishes them from 'regular'
Rakasta.
I agree with you that, if we were to make them more 'traditional'
Rakshasa, as in the AD&D rulebooks, that some sort of magical
experimentation or what have you would be a better explanation for their
appearance.
> Another thing is the connection between the Sindhi and the Rajahstan
> culture. It is my opinion that it may have gone as u suggested, that's to
> say that Rakshasa and rakastas staying in Sind migrated to Patera and
> settled in Rajahstan, but i also think that given the rakshasas powers and
> cunning, they might have been able to take seats in the ruling body of
> Rajahstan, so that now a good half if not more of the twelve realms are
> ruled by Rakshasas. Wether they hide their real nature using illusions or
> not it's yet to decide.
Possibly, though I think most shapeshifters have been driven out of Sind
by mages who could see through their illusions (and, as I have it, by
friendly shapeshifter hating Lupins who also seem to have the ability to
sense shapeshifters; at least lycanthropes.)
> As another side note, i really liked your Kompor-Thap entry, but i have a
> question: how do u explain the Ganetra golem in Shajapur? As u said, he
> attained immortality in AC 460, that's to say AFTER the transplantation of
> Shajapur to the HW. So if he's now venerated there, he must have made
> himself known to the Shajapuri in the HW: how? Have you got ideas?
Ganetra gained Immortality in 460 BC, long before the Rakasta migrated to
Mystara (unless I got the dates wrong in my entry). Unless you are
referring to the HWA dates for Shahjapur's disappearance, which was
changed in the Champions of Mystara boxed set to around 425 AC (when
Sindh was threatened by lycanthropy). I'm still not too happy with the
alterations of Sindhi history as laid down by Allen Varney in Nightstorm,
but it meshes with the history I've laid down for the Rakasta now...
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:15:22 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Patera Project: some thoughts
On Wed, 13 Aug 1997, Ray Brooks wrote:
> I like these options. Also, wasn't the orient the first area to develop
> the use of paper money? I may be wrong, but, hey, its an idea....
Oooh. Paper Myoshiman currency. I kind of like that thought...
> If I remember correctly, shoguns were Japanese feudal warlords. I don't
> know if they were "pre-empire" in the real world (I'm not really up
> on my Japanese history) but Japan was a very upset and turbulent
> place under the rule of feuding shoguns.
There were a couple of Imperial periods, according to my researches, and
IIRC, the shoguns came out of one of the imperial dynasties, then
gradually came to take the power themselves. And yes, there was a long
period of warfare between them.
> Maybe the "semiautonomous provinces" could be ruled by shoguns that
> answer to the emperor...?
THey are ruled by Daimyos (as we see in #160- Lord Katayama is Daimyo of
Ichiyoda province), so I suppose they are Shogunates, technically... I'm
not entirely sure, to be quite honest, what they would be called...
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 13:27:30 +0200
From: Deathwatch <deathw@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupins
>PS -- I've been stuck in GenCon mode from early August to last Sunday, after
>which I went straight to the hospital for our son's birth. This took 48
>difficult hours and then some, but finally, Beatrice and Bruce Heard are
>proud to announce the birth of their son, Noel, on this day of August 12.
>Incidentally, I got back home late this evening -- which explains why I
>haven't answered much of all your posts. I'll start by a few short ones, and
>then hit the sack since I'm beginning to fall asleep. :)
>
>Bruce Heard
Congrats!
Bas van Doornspeek - deathw@xs4all.nl
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 13:29:48 +0200
From: Deathwatch <deathw@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Just something
At 23:09 12-08-97 +0200, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote:
>On Mon, 11 Aug 1997, Rob Rickard wrote:
>
>> I have a great campaign where many Pc heros are uncovering what the
>> shadow elf's are up to and may save Alfheim. Too early to tell yet.
>> IMC most of the know world and very few elfs believe in the shadow elf
>> race. only elders and few others who have dug up new info truly
>> believe. IMC I have left the shadow race apart for mystara races. I
>> have them played up as a Mystara legend.
>
>Interesting. what about the Moulder Dwarves? Those pesky litle critters
>living below the Northern Reaches using their nasty dark rituals refusing
>to show themselves to the civilized world. Any thoughts on those?
Never heard of them... (I got no info on the Northern Reaches...)
>Havard
>If anyone is wondering whether my first name is spelled with one or two
>a's I'll just tell you that it isnt. It's spelled with some obscure, pesky
>little letter that isn't in everyones alfabeth. BTW, I'm feeling pesky
>today...
Hehe, lets see.
ä, ã, á, à, â...thats all I can do right now :)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 13:23:30 +0200
From: Deathwatch <deathw@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Just something
At 23:04 12-08-97 +0200, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote:
>On 11 Aug 1997, Alan Shutko wrote:
>
>> >>>>> "H" == Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no> writes:
>>
>> H> even though alfheim is no more
>>
>> That's assuming you're playing _after_ WotI, not before or during.
>>
>> In fact, I'm not sure I ant WotI to turn out as the books say in my
>> campaign... I'm too sentimental.
>
>That'll give you another reson to go and buy Alfheim. The Gaz, not the
>fictionous geographic area.
>Sorry about being so presoumptious about you using the cannonocal
>timeline. I'm trying to start a new campaign in AC 1000 Karameikos. One
>good rule when buying Mystara stuff is: Gett the D&D stuff before you get
>the AD&D stuff. Some would say "dont bother to get the AD&D stuff at all",
>but I am one of those guys who has to have EVERYTHING, so I buy the AD&D
>stuff as well. I got the impression you were using AD&D rules, so geting
>the AD&D setting material, might not be such a bad idea, but get the D&D
>stuff first so you'll know what to ignore from the AD&D version.
>
>right.
>
>Haavard
Is the chance that bad? I own most of the Mystara AD&D stuff allready, and
it looks pretty good to me. But hey, I'm also someone who wants to get
everything :)
Bas van Doornspeek - deathw@xs4all.nl
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 23:50:53 +0100
From: Thorfinn Tait <Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk>
Subject: [Mystara] Nithia (was re: Lupins)
On Tue, 12 Aug 1997 "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One"
<jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU> wrote:
>On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Thorfinn Tait wrote:
>> Awareness of history within the campaign world, especially when it comes
>> to "simple" things repeated over and over in the timelines, and even
>> down to simple things like the names - "do the sages of the world know
>> the names of Blackmoor and Nithia?" or "do the ordinary peasants know
>> those names?" - has always been a tricky subject as far as I am
>> concerned. The Black Vessel made me wonder even more, since it was
>> quite clearly shown that there was very little knowledge that the
>> Nithians even existed, let alone that they were called "Nithians", or
>> that they are related to the modern Ylari.
>
>Yet there is an Emirate of Nithia still, in Ylaruam, where the people of
>that place have a history shrouded in mystery. There was also a recent
>uncovering of a Nithian tomb- anyone remember the curse of Nennaya-Sherat
>from the PWAs a few years back? It seemed fairly well known that she was
>a Pharaoh from the Nithian era.
Which is exactly my point. There seem to be conflicting sources on
whether or not these things are known.
>In fact, I'd say that there are enough references to Nithia in a variety
>of sources (Haldemar makes note of the place on more than one occasion,
>IIRC) that (GAZ2 aside) it is fairly well known that it once existed,
>even if modern day scholars may be a bit vague on specifics.
The question here is which view you want to take - that the Nithians are
known or are a tantalisingly mysterious "missing link" in Mystaran
history. There are good arguments for both approaches, but there
doesn't seem to be an overall "official" view.
>I haven't read The Black Vessel, but I'd assume that (like most of the
>D&D novels) it's not exactly considered canonical.
Well, it depends on many things - who you ask, what they thought of the
novel and the ideas therein, your opinion on the changes brought about
by those ideas, etc. Personally I liked the novel and I liked the
approach it took to the Nithian history of the Savage Coast, and also
the Hutaakan connection it introduced.
Now, the whole point of my post was that I percieved a connection
between Bruce's article on Lupins and the Hutaakans introduced in The
Black Vessel, known as the Long Runner clan of the El Grande Carrascal
gnolls. It seems from the article that Bruce has adapted the ideas a
little and made the Long-runners instead be a certain breed of lupins
with strong hutaakan bloodlines (as far as I can see).
It gets complex when you accept one thing (Bruce's article) as canonical
but not something on which the canonical article was based (The Black
Vessel).
Please correct me if I'm wrong about these observations.
>> On a side note, has anyone ever noticed that there is actually still a
>> river called Nithia in the Known World? I must admit I only found it
>> earlier this year, and it came as quite a pleasant surprise.
>
>And the Emirate of Nithia, which is located rather nearby.
Well yes, but that is widely documented (in GAZ2 at least). The River
Nithia (situated in south western or maybe central Rockhome btw) is
never actually given a location in any text, which is why I missed it in
the first place.
Thorf.
=========================================
"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."
- Bilbo Baggins, "The Lord of the Rings"
Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk
Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline
=========================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 23:48:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mystaros@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupins
In a message dated 97-08-13 02:30:40 EDT, you write:
<< Beatrice and Bruce Heard are
proud to announce the birth of their son, Noel, on this day of August 12.
Bruce>>
Congratulations!!! Blessings upon you all! Good to know that another Mystara
fan is out there! :)
James
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 00:10:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ambreville@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupins
In a message dated 97-08-13 12:38:38 EDT, Herve writes:
<< Ok that explains how they know about Nithia and the HW (although I still
find it hard to believe that Lupins of Renardy know it and no humans
from the KW..) >>
I guess lupins like to keep a few secrets amongst themselves. Besides lupins
can howl all nite long, telling each other lotsa good stories from miles
apart, without any nosy humans ever catching a single word. I'd like to see
you climb on the roof of your house and do the same! I bet you can't even
scratch behind your ear with your feet either. Pfeh, humans. Who needs 'em?
:)
<<Bruce, if you haven't read the Black Vessel as you seem to imply (what
were you doing at TSR exactly? Oh yes, product editor for the Mystara
line ;) then you should, (snip) >>
What's the matter, Herve? Trying to be sarcastic? Having a lonely evening
tonite? Thanks anyway for your precious advice. I'm sure it'll get all the
attention it deserves.
Bruce Heard
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 00:39:48 PDT
From: "Herve Musseau" <herve@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupins
>In a message dated 97-08-13 12:38:38 EDT, Herve writes:
>
><< Ok that explains how they know about Nithia and the HW (although I
still
> find it hard to believe that Lupins of Renardy know it and no humans
> from the KW..) >>
>
>I guess lupins like to keep a few secrets amongst themselves. Besides
lupins
>can howl all nite long, telling each other lotsa good stories from
miles
>apart, without any nosy humans ever catching a single word. I'd like to
see
>you climb on the roof of your house and do the same! I bet you can't
even
>scratch behind your ear with your feet either. Pfeh, humans. Who needs
'em?
> :)
>
><<Bruce, if you haven't read the Black Vessel as you seem to imply
(what
>were you doing at TSR exactly? Oh yes, product editor for the Mystara
>line ;) then you should, (snip) >>
>
>What's the matter, Herve? Trying to be sarcastic? Having a lonely
evening
>tonite? Thanks anyway for your precious advice. I'm sure it'll get all
the
>attention it deserves.
>
>Bruce Heard
C'mon Bruce, 't was a joke. A bit ironic, maybe even sarcastic, but that
was the purpose of the ;) ..
But the rest of my post, the part you snipped, was serious. All of those
that read both the novel and your lupin article (as shown by Thorf's
posts as well as mine) were convinced that you did this on purpose, to
make the Black Vessel more canonical and reinforce the idea of the
Hutaakan connection to the SC.
Hmmm.
__________________________________________________________
Herve Musseau
Primary Email: herve@hotmail.com
Also: hmusseau@compuserve.com
Also: musseauh@esiee.fr (old, no more in use)
Homepage: http://www.esiee.fr/~musseauh (not for very long)
I'm a QSQWBEEEGGNFR Mystaran
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 10:57:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupins
Ambreville@aol.com pontificated:
>
> you climb on the roof of your house and do the same! I bet you can't even
> scratch behind your ear with your feet either. Pfeh, humans. Who needs 'em?
I can scatch behind my ear with my feet just fine. Prefer to use my
hand thou, especially in public area...
> <<Bruce, if you haven't read the Black Vessel as you seem to imply (what
Who wrote the Black Vessel? I'll try to find it the next time I go
to the book store.
John Yu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:41:34 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupins
On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Herve Musseau wrote:
> But the rest of my post, the part you snipped, was serious. All of those
> that read both the novel and your lupin article (as shown by Thorf's
> posts as well as mine) were convinced that you did this on purpose, to
> make the Black Vessel more canonical and reinforce the idea of the
> Hutaakan connection to the SC.
My understanding (from Thorf's post, not because I've read the book; I
haven't) is the connection seems to be based on the fact that Bruce has a
breed of Lupins called "Longrunners" and there is a clan of Hutaakans (or
Gnolls?) in the BV that are called "Longrunners."
Perhaps if there is a RW type of dog known as Longrunners (or something
similar), this would explain the confusion. The author of that book, not
working with Bruce, may have used that name independently of Bruce (and
the same would hold true of Bruce's article). Complete coincidence, but
one that anyone wishing to incorporate the Black Vessel into their
campaigns might easily use. No major problem.
For that matter, there's a Longrunner clan of Alfheim elves, yet I
haven't seen anyone try to claim that they might be related to the
Lupins... ;)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:17:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupins
In a message dated 97-08-14 06:34:51 EDT, you write:
<< > On a side note, has anyone ever noticed that there is actually still a
> river called Nithia in the Known World? I must admit I only found it
> earlier this year, and it came as quite a pleasant surprise.
< I do believ that river dissapears somewhere near Rockhome and reappears in
< Hollow World..Interesting right? >>
If I recall the KW Nithia River dried up when the Nithians were corrupted.
There is no Nithian River listed in Ylaruam GAZ. I assume there is a dried
riverbed that may bear a trickling of water every now and then.
The Nithia River in HW resembled the original and the Immortals chose it as a
place to resettle the Nithians.
respectfully,
Alex
PS- Even though it has been said before- Congrads Bruce.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:13:00 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nithia (was re: Lupins)
On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Thorfinn Tait wrote:
> Which is exactly my point. There seem to be conflicting sources on
> whether or not these things are known.
Fair enough, and true enough. :)
> >I haven't read The Black Vessel, but I'd assume that (like most of the
> >D&D novels) it's not exactly considered canonical.
>
> Well, it depends on many things - who you ask, what they thought of the
> novel and the ideas therein, your opinion on the changes brought about
> by those ideas, etc. Personally I liked the novel and I liked the
> approach it took to the Nithian history of the Savage Coast, and also
> the Hutaakan connection it introduced.
Sure, but you could say that about anything, really. If we're arguing
canon, though, I'd say that none of the novels are strictly Mystara
canon. Aside from the Johanna Menhir ones (don't recall the name of that
series), none are mentioned in any other Mystara products- they are
entirely self-contained.
> It gets complex when you accept one thing (Bruce's article) as canonical
> but not something on which the canonical article was based (The Black
> Vessel).
My understanding is that Bruce's article was not based on the Black
Vessel- at least, that's the impression I get from him. I'll leave it to
him to say definitively, though.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 19:08:47 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupins
On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Shin Chyang Yu wrote:
> Ambreville@aol.com pontificated:
> >
> > you climb on the roof of your house and do the same! I bet you can't even
> > scratch behind your ear with your feet either. Pfeh, humans. Who needs 'em?
>
> I can scatch behind my ear with my feet just fine. Prefer to use my
> hand thou, especially in public area...
>
> > <<Bruce, if you haven't read the Black Vessel as you seem to imply (what
>
> Who wrote the Black Vessel? I'll try to find it the next time I go
> to the book store.
I'll answer that one for you. I've got it right here. The author's called
Morris Simon.
Haavard
- ----
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 19:06:08 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Just something
On Wed, 13 Aug 1997, Deathwatch wrote:
>
> Is the chance that bad? I own most of the Mystara AD&D stuff allready, and
> it looks pretty good to me. But hey, I'm also someone who wants to get
> everything :)
My main objection to the AD&D material is that they seemed to be in a
real rush when they made it. Several of the NPCs have not aged in the last
10 years etc..
Also the conversion to AD&D was rather strange. Terari should IMHO be well
above 20th level.
Glantri had many nice additions to it, but it couldn't rival the D&D
version which IMHO was one of the best D&D accessories made. Not that I'm
unhappy with the coloured art and fancy lay-out in the AD&D sets. But,
when you take a look at Dark Sun or Planescape, you know those guys at TSR
could have done much better..
The CDs were an interesting experiment, but in retrospect, I wish they
hadn't done it...
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 22:42:11 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupins (spoiler)
Okay. I'm making a few things clear further down, but it might spoil
things if you're planning to read the Black Vessel...
On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Herve Musseau wrote:
>
> > But the rest of my post, the part you snipped, was serious. All of those
> > that read both the novel and your lupin article (as shown by Thorf's
> > posts as well as mine) were convinced that you did this on purpose, to
> > make the Black Vessel more canonical and reinforce the idea of the
> > Hutaakan connection to the SC.
>
> My understanding (from Thorf's post, not because I've read the book; I
> haven't) is the connection seems to be based on the fact that Bruce has a
> breed of Lupins called "Longrunners" and there is a clan of Hutaakans (or
> Gnolls?) in the BV that are called "Longrunners."
>
> Perhaps if there is a RW type of dog known as Longrunners (or something
> similar), this would explain the confusion. The author of that book, not
> working with Bruce, may have used that name independently of Bruce (and
> the same would hold true of Bruce's article). Complete coincidence, but
> one that anyone wishing to incorporate the Black Vessel into their
> campaigns might easily use. No major problem.
>
> For that matter, there's a Longrunner clan of Alfheim elves, yet I
> haven't seen anyone try to claim that they might be related to the
> Lupins... ;)
IRC, There are no Longrunners in The Black Vessel. The humans refer to
some Gnolls as Long Legs. As It turns out, some of these Gnolls are
actually Hutakaans. sorry about the spoiler. And what do you get if you
mix a Lupin and an elf? No dont tell me, I dont wanna know. not really.
Haavard
- ---
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 22:46:46 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nithia (was re: Lupins)
On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Thorfinn Tait wrote:
>
> > Which is exactly my point. There seem to be conflicting sources on
> > whether or not these things are known.
>
> Fair enough, and true enough. :)
>
> > >I haven't read The Black Vessel, but I'd assume that (like most of the
> > >D&D novels) it's not exactly considered canonical.
> >
> > Well, it depends on many things - who you ask, what they thought of the
> > novel and the ideas therein, your opinion on the changes brought about
> > by those ideas, etc. Personally I liked the novel and I liked the
> > approach it took to the Nithian history of the Savage Coast, and also
> > the Hutaakan connection it introduced.
>
> Sure, but you could say that about anything, really. If we're arguing
> canon, though, I'd say that none of the novels are strictly Mystara
> canon. Aside from the Johanna Menhir ones (don't recall the name of that
> series), none are mentioned in any other Mystara products- they are
> entirely self-contained.
Well. What we consider canon is up to us, I guess, but I dont think its
any problem to use the novels as canon as long as they dont contradict
other canon material. As you mantioned most of the novels do contradict
canon material, but I dont think the Black Vessel does.
While I'm at it, I just want to say congratulations to Bruce and Beatrice
Heard with their son.
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 23:15:31 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupins
At 08.41 14/08/97 -0700, you wrote:
>For that matter, there's a Longrunner clan of Alfheim elves, yet I
>haven't seen anyone try to claim that they might be related to the
>Lupins... ;)
>
When I first read Bruce's article I had in mind of asking Bruce if there
was some connection between those lupins and the elves, but then I forgot... :)
- --------------
Fabrizio Paoli
brizio@lunet.it
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
- --------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 00:05:27 +0200
From: Deathwatch <deathw@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Just something
At 19:06 14-08-97 +0200, you wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Aug 1997, Deathwatch wrote:
>
>>
>> Is the chance that bad? I own most of the Mystara AD&D stuff allready, and
>> it looks pretty good to me. But hey, I'm also someone who wants to get
>> everything :)
>
>My main objection to the AD&D material is that they seemed to be in a
>real rush when they made it. Several of the NPCs have not aged in the last
>10 years etc..
>Also the conversion to AD&D was rather strange. Terari should IMHO be well
>above 20th level.
>Glantri had many nice additions to it, but it couldn't rival the D&D
>version which IMHO was one of the best D&D accessories made. Not that I'm
>unhappy with the coloured art and fancy lay-out in the AD&D sets. But,
>when you take a look at Dark Sun or Planescape, you know those guys at TSR
>could have done much better..
>The CDs were an interesting experiment, but in retrospect, I wish they
>hadn't done it...
Well, the CDs are nice, but its only so stupid to hear other "players"...it
may work with beginners, though.
Oh Well, as soon as I get some more money again, I'll buy some other D&D
stuff...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:31:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Esherdon@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupins
Congrats Bruce!!!!!!!!!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:31:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Esherdon@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupins
Congrats Bruce!!!!!!!!!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:33:12 +0100
From: Thorfinn Tait <Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk>
Subject: [Mystara] Schattenalfen
I just discovered a major contradiction in the history of the
Schattenalfen. The problem is, Aaron Allston didn't realise that the
founding of the City of the Stars by the Shadow Elves predates the
Schattenalfen arrival in the Hollow World. According to their history
in the Atlas section, the Schattenalfen are an offshoot from the Shadow
Elves of the City of the Stars, who changed their allegiance from Rafiel
to Atzanteotl. But this clearly can't be so, since the City of the
Stars is founded almost 400 years AFTER the Schattenalfen arrive in the
Hollow World.
If anyone can see a way round this problem, I'd really like to hear it.
Of course, I have a few ideas myself... :-)
First, I don't see the connection with the City of the Stars as
particularly necessary - in fact it fits better if the two different
races of "shadow elves" don't know of each other's existence until 1010
when they meet.
Second, this is part of the most complex thread in the whole timeline -
that of Mictlan/Aengmor/Oenkmar. It has been added to no less than
three times since its conception in GAZ10, and as such is one of the
most contradictory points in Mystaran history. This does not help the
matter of the Schattenalfen problem.
Any ideas?
Thorf.
=========================================
"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."
- Bilbo Baggins, "The Lord of the Rings"
Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk
Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline
=========================================
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:54:10 +0100
From: Thorfinn Tait <Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupins (spoiler)
>IRC, There are no Longrunners in The Black Vessel. The humans refer to
>some Gnolls as Long Legs. As It turns out, some of these Gnolls are
>actually Hutakaans. sorry about the spoiler. And what do you get if you
>mix a Lupin and an elf? No dont tell me, I dont wanna know. not really.
Ah - that's what's causing the confusion. I read the book a few months
ago and I suppose the two names must have gotten mixed up.
Anyway, my point was that these "Gnolls" (which are actually Hutaakans)
seem to fit in very well with Bruce's ideas in his article about lupins
with strong Hutaakan bloodlines, and indeed the Long Legs clan bears a
striking resemblance to one of the breeds (I forget now whether it is
the Nithian Rambler or the Long-runner).
Now that we know this is just coincidence, I'm not sure it changes
anything. It still makes incorporating the ideas of the Black Vessel
into the Savage Coast setting somewhat easier - it just means that one
of the "gnollish" tribes is actually a tribe of Lupins with stronger
than usual Hutaakan bloodlines. Actually this could cause some
interesting events if the other Lupins were to discover their brethren
working with gnolls.
Thorf.
=========================================
"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."
- Bilbo Baggins, "The Lord of the Rings"
Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk
Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline
=========================================
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:45:46 -0700
From: David Keyser <davidk@Synopsys.COM>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Schattenalfen
>I just discovered a major contradiction in the history of the
>Schattenalfen. The problem is, Aaron Allston didn't realise that the
>founding of the City of the Stars by the Shadow Elves predates the
>Schattenalfen arrival in the Hollow World. According to their history
>in the Atlas section, the Schattenalfen are an offshoot from the Shadow
>Elves of the City of the Stars, who changed their allegiance from Rafiel
>to Atzanteotl. But this clearly can't be so, since the City of the
>Stars is founded almost 400 years AFTER the Schattenalfen arrive in the
>Hollow World.
I can think of only two explanations :
1) The Schattenalfen are an offshoot clan of another group that burrowed into
the earth to escape disaster. Perhaps the original Evergrun elves, elves in or
near Blackmoor during the explosion, a group that got seperated from the
migrations, or a group who got seperated from the shadowelves when they first
escaped into the earth. But the last one may not work, I forget how long it
took the shadowelves to find/found the City of the Stars.
This explanation would mean that somehow the Schattenalfen were swayed to
Atzanteotl at some point, perhaps they never worshipped Rafiel.
2) The Schattenalfen are still an offshoot from the shadowelves, everything
is just as Aaron Allston described, but the Schattenalfen went back in time.
They found an artifact, or perhaps the Inn Between Worlds, and transported
themselves 400-500 years in the past. They did it in anticipation of growing in
strength and arming themselves in preparation for the arrival
of the shadowelves later, which they could then subjugate. But not everyone
made it through, some were killed, or vanished in a Chronomancy time paradox,
and the rest were forced by other denizens and creatures out of the area, and
the elves ended up in the Hollow World.
I like 2) because we don't have to change a thing. And as long as every elf
that was transported in time was dead before they were born later, the paradoxes
don't appear.
Dave Keyser
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 02:12:50 +0100
From: Thorfinn Tait <Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk>
Subject: [Mystara] Web page
I have recently added some things to my webpage, please feel free to
check it out. It's at
www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/1413/
Included is a links page with a links to a lot of the best Mystara
sites. If your page isn't on it, just tell me and I'll be happy to add
it.
The main change is in the addition of my "Timeline Notes" file, which is
accessible through the library. Check out the "New and Coming Soon"
page if you haven't been there for a while (or ever).
Thank you kindly,
Thorf.
=========================================
"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."
- Bilbo Baggins, "The Lord of the Rings"
Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk
Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline
=========================================
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 18:38:16 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Hollow World (was Lupins)
At 02.45 11/08/97 PDT, Herve wrote:
>Ok now the big stuff : How can the Renardois (or at least that noble of
>them) be aware of the existence of such things as the Nithians, the
>Hutaakans, or the Hollow World?
(...)
>How can they know so many
>details on a part of history that so many ignore, even in more
>"civilized" countries (I mean the Known World)? And worse, how could
>they know about the HW, since until very recently (the return of
>Claransa) the HW was unknown to all but some exceptional individuals,
>and top Alphatians and HK.
Yesterday I was looking at the Trail Maps and incidentally I noted that one
of most important teachings of the University of Biazzan is "Hollow World
theories".
If we consider the Trail Maps "canon", then we must admit that Thyatian
scholars knew of the Hollow World even before Claransa's return, but from
other sources we know that this is not true. Another TSR inconsistency?
BTW: who wrote the tables in the Trail Maps? Was it Bruce?
- --------------
Fabrizio Paoli
brizio@lunet.it
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
- --------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 14:34:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hollow World (was Lupins)
In a message dated 97-08-16 14:16:32 EDT, brizio@lunet.it (Fabrizio Paoli)
writes:
<< Yesterday I was looking at the Trail Maps and incidentally I noted that
one
of most important teachings of the University of Biazzan is "Hollow World
theories".
If we consider the Trail Maps "canon", then we must admit that Thyatian
scholars knew of the Hollow World even before Claransa's return, but from
other sources we know that this is not true. Another TSR inconsistency?
BTW: who wrote the tables in the Trail Maps? Was it Bruce? >>
Note that the Trail Map mentions "Hollow World Theories", not "Hollow World
Facts". There have been people in the real world who theorized that our own
real world was hollow and that people live on the inside -- in some of these
theories, we were the people living on the inside, and the sky we see is just
a massive optical illusion. Of course, in the real world case these "Hollow
World theories" are obviously just the speculations of crackpots.
So my guess would be that folks at the University of Biazzan were talking
about the theoretical possibility of the Hollow World but had no hard facts
to go on until Claransa went public with her knowledge.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 22:15:48 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupins (spoiler)
On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Thorfinn Tait wrote:
> Now that we know this is just coincidence, I'm not sure it changes
> anything. It still makes incorporating the ideas of the Black Vessel
> into the Savage Coast setting somewhat easier - it just means that one
> of the "gnollish" tribes is actually a tribe of Lupins with stronger
> than usual Hutaakan bloodlines. Actually this could cause some
> interesting events if the other Lupins were to discover their brethren
> working with gnolls.
I agree. And I think this should be taken into account when you guys
detail the future Mystara Almanacs. Well, If the Wataks ( Gnollish
Hutaakans) are Lupins or Hutakaans might be detabable. If they are
considered Lupins, their bloodlines must be _very_ strong.
Remember that it did not even occur to the Humans that Vupilor and friends
could be Lupin( of which they had undoubtedly heard)
Have you thought of a date for the events in Black Vessel?
By the way, I just got Dragon 237, finally. Nice to see another Mystara
artcle. Hope we'll see more of those. Maybe some people on the list could
submit some ( someone other than Bruce too)
Nuff said.
Haavard
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V2 #125
*****************************
From: owner-mystara-digest@ (mystara-digest)
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #126
Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
Sender: owner-mystara-digest@
Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@
Precedence: bulk
mystara-digest Wednesday, August 20 1997 Volume 02 : Number 126
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 14:38:35 +0100
From: "Leroy Van Camp III" <malacoda@lesbois.com>
Subject: [Mystara] [ADMIN] I Am (Finally) Back...
Mystarans,
After a two week absence, and considerable time fighting my new
computer,
I am now receiving regular e-mail again.
As I mentioned in my last notice, I have yet to answer some e-mail sent
to
me personally, but this will now be taken care of.
Thanks.
BTW, never buy a product with the word "WinModem" in the name.
Leroy Van Camp III
malacoda@lesbois.com
owner-mystara-l@io.com
"You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle."
MST3K
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 04:12:30 +0100
From: Thorfinn Tait <Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hollow World (was Lupins)
On Sat, 16 Aug 1997 Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it> wrote:
>Yesterday I was looking at the Trail Maps and incidentally I noted that one
>of most important teachings of the University of Biazzan is "Hollow World
>theories".
>If we consider the Trail Maps "canon", then we must admit that Thyatian
>scholars knew of the Hollow World even before Claransa's return, but from
>other sources we know that this is not true. Another TSR inconsistency?
>BTW: who wrote the tables in the Trail Maps? Was it Bruce?
Not necessarily - I always thought it was a dwarven theory, since they
do so much mining.
Anyway, for some reason I always just assumed the tables were by Bruce
Heard, they seem like his kind of style. (And they're very good, too!)
Incidentally, did they come out before or after the Hollow World set? I
can't remember, and now I think of it that could be a cool little
prelude to the Hollow World set...
Thorf.
=========================================
"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."
- Bilbo Baggins, "The Lord of the Rings"
Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk
Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline
=========================================
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 04:09:28 +0100
From: Thorfinn Tait <Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupins (spoiler)
On Sat, 16 Aug 1997 Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no> wrote:
>I agree. And I think this should be taken into account when you guys
>detail the future Mystara Almanacs. Well, If the Wataks ( Gnollish
>Hutaakans) are Lupins or Hutakaans might be detabable. If they are
>considered Lupins, their bloodlines must be _very_ strong.
>Remember that it did not even occur to the Humans that Vupilor and friends
>could be Lupin( of which they had undoubtedly heard)
>
>Have you thought of a date for the events in Black Vessel?
I think actually the Black Vessel events were placed in last year's
Almanac, though they probably took place some time before 1014 if I
remember correctly. Anyway, I too have thought of the problems with the
Wataks being lupins - lupins are mentioned at least once or twice in the
book, enough to let us know they are a relatively common sight. Thus
either hutaakans look far more different from lupins than I had imagined
or it is a matter of the Wataks being with gnolls, and looking different
enough as to stop the connection from being made.
>By the way, I just got Dragon 237, finally. Nice to see another Mystara
>artcle. Hope we'll see more of those. Maybe some people on the list could
>submit some ( someone other than Bruce too)
I agree wholeheartedly, and I hope there are more Mystara articles soon.
Going back to the one per issue of not so long ago would be just great,
if a bit too hopeful... Articles in Dragon do gain a more "official"
status than the standard list and web stuff (at least in my eyes), and
there is so much of Mystara left to be detailed! If I could have a full
gazetteer of any area of Mystara written by someone good like Aaron
Allston, Bruce Heard, Ann Dupuis or any of the other Gazetteer writers,
it would have to be either Wendar, Heldann, Hule or one of the Savage
Coast nations. (What a nice idea! Shame it's incredibly unlikely to
ever happen.)
Thorf.
=========================================
"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."
- Bilbo Baggins, "The Lord of the Rings"
Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk
Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline
=========================================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 02:06:28 PDT
From: "Herve Musseau" <herve@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupins (spoiler)
>On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Thorfinn Tait wrote:
>
>> Now that we know this is just coincidence, I'm not sure it changes
>> anything. It still makes incorporating the ideas of the Black Vessel
>> into the Savage Coast setting somewhat easier - it just means that
one
>> of the "gnollish" tribes is actually a tribe of Lupins with stronger
>> than usual Hutaakan bloodlines. Actually this could cause some
>> interesting events if the other Lupins were to discover their
brethren
>> working with gnolls.
>
>I agree. And I think this should be taken into account when you guys
>detail the future Mystara Almanacs. Well, If the Wataks ( Gnollish
That I probably will, and that's why I was asking Bruce about the
connection between his article and the novel. I already have begun
writing some events connected to the Black Vessel, and Bruce's article
gave me a whole new bunch of possibilities I hadn't imagined before...
>Hutaakans) are Lupins or Hutakaans might be detabable. If they are
>considered Lupins, their bloodlines must be _very_ strong.
>Remember that it did not even occur to the Humans that Vupilor and
friends
>could be Lupin( of which they had undoubtedly heard)
Yes, that's why I think the Watak are indeed Hutaakans, who have
forgotten their true heritage as well as Pflarr's worship (probably at
the same time when Pflarr ceased to be interested in the outer world,
but did not transport all the Hutaakans to the HW, as said in the HW
set). Whether they already inhabited the SC at the time (following the
Nithian colonists) or migrated there after is unknown. They forgot about
Pflarr, they forgot about the Nithian sand their true origins (because
of the Immortals' spell), and for some reason blended with the gnolls
that moved or already lived there, believing to be an offshoot of that
race.
But when the Lupins learn that Hutaakans do live among the Gnolls of El
Grande Carrascal, that could to interesting events (anyway that's what I
intend to do). Especially in regards to Bruce's article about the Lupins
that promote Pflarr's teachings IIRC (I'll have to read that article
again, very carefully) and that were exiled from Renardy. Hmmm.
>Have you thought of a date for the events in Black Vessel?
IIRC it was set in Ambyrmont, AC 1010.
>By the way, I just got Dragon 237, finally. Nice to see another Mystara
>artcle. Hope we'll see more of those. Maybe some people on the list
could
>submit some ( someone other than Bruce too)
If we submit the 1014 almanac that'll take up more than one article's
space I guess.. :)
>Nuff said.
>Haavard
>
>Haavard R. Faanes
>Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
>http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
>
>"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
>learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 16:14:08 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hollow World (was Lupins)
At 14.34 16/08/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Note that the Trail Map mentions "Hollow World Theories", not "Hollow World
>Facts". There have been people in the real world who theorized that our own
>real world was hollow and that people live on the inside -- in some of these
>theories, we were the people living on the inside, and the sky we see is just
>a massive optical illusion. Of course, in the real world case these "Hollow
>World theories" are obviously just the speculations of crackpots.
I see, but it's "Hollow World theories" in capital letters, not "hollow
world theories".
IMO this means that they're discussing about the Hollow World as a
geographical area, not about the world (Mystara) being hollow.
>
>So my guess would be that folks at the University of Biazzan were talking
>about the theoretical possibility of the Hollow World but had no hard facts
>to go on until Claransa went public with her knowledge.
>
Maybe no hard facts, but they probably have some clues.
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com
DM in City Of The Stars - PC in the Forgotten Realms
Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 02:38:11 +0200
From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Patera Project: Kompor-Thap (fwd)
Hi!
>Whatabout mysterious Elephant Graveyards?
Good idea, I will use them at their very center of spirituality. Their they
can nearly feel Death with all its (her?) spirtuell might. They even might
be able to contact Death their. IMC Death ist a person (VERY MUCH like the
Endless in Gaiman´s Comics.) I think I will also use the idea, that Thanatos
has seen Death once, and has fallen in love with her, and therefore tries to
kill as many creatures as possible as a present to her. She couldn´t care less!
(No, no, I don´t steal, I .... use!)
>Where did the Pachydermions come from? Are there any of those on Mystara?
I have placed one tribe of them in the Hinterlands, at the southern border
of the thyatian empire.
>A very interesting race in my opinion. Do they have any relationship with
>real elephants?
Probably..?
************************************************************
Peter Balazs
Wurlitzerg. 37/12
1160 Wien
0222/4816030
a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at
pbalazs@radon.mat.univie.ac.at
http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 16:39:18 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupins (spoiler)
On Mon, 18 Aug 1997, Herve Musseau wrote:
> Yes, that's why I think the Watak are indeed Hutaakans, who have
> forgotten their true heritage as well as Pflarr's worship (probably at
> the same time when Pflarr ceased to be interested in the outer world,
> but did not transport all the Hutaakans to the HW, as said in the HW
> set). Whether they already inhabited the SC at the time (following the
> Nithian colonists) or migrated there after is unknown. They forgot about
> Pflarr, they forgot about the Nithian sand their true origins (because
> of the Immortals' spell), and for some reason blended with the gnolls
> that moved or already lived there, believing to be an offshoot of that
> race.
Note that, according to canon sources thus far, the Lupins didn't reach
the Savage Coast until 500 AC, along with the Rakasta. They came from the
west. Since Nithia fell around 1000 BC or thereabouts (it might not have
been until 500 BC, I forget), that's still quite a time gap. Not that it
couldn't have happened, just something to keep in mind.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 16:10:23 +0000
From: gnighmen <gnighmen@geocities.com>
Subject: [Mystara] Hello
Hello All
I just thought I'd write a short message of greeting to everyone on the
list, seeing as I am new to the list.
I was just wondering if perhaps there was an official homepage out there
where I can find stuff that the list has come up with. I'd like to know
where things stand before I stamp on anyone elses terrain.
- --
Gnighmen
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 11:51:30 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Thoughts on Hule
Jennifer Favia wrote:
SOME THOUGHTS ON HULE
<snipped the first part about Hule=Turkey -Ottoman Empire- with which i agree>
<<My second question was "Where in the KW?" That is, where did these
Huleans come from? Glenn writes in his Gazetteer that "Much of Hule's
history is shrouded in mystery. According to the teachings of the holy men,
Hule was founded by human followers of the Immortal Bozdogan sometime before
1500 BC." Okay, so where did they come from? Well, relating them once
again to the Byzantines, who came from Rome, I began to wonder if they
weren't a reflection of that. But the time is way too early for Thyatis, so
no easy answer there. >>
Well, you see, it is not actually compulsory that the parallel between RW
and KW goes on to this depth. The KW is not the exact mirror of our world,
not as regards the history of every single nation or culture, that is.
Following this reasoning, i've only some minor notes to make to your paper,
especially regarding the linguistic issue.
<<5.) Fabrizio Paoli has identified 4 main languages in Mystara:
Oltec/Azcan, Tanagoro, Neathar, and Nithian. He lists Hulean as a separate
language, but neglects to say where the heck it came from (please mail me,
Fabrizio, if you're reading this!:). My guess is that it's descended from
Neathar through Antalian (hence the initial relation to Thyatian), with
perhaps some Nithian influence. Any additional Thyatian-type influence
comes from contact with Slag. So, going by that, Huleans are
Nithian/Antalian descendants of some sort.
So how's this?: Loki, tired of competing with the growing Nithian Immortals,
not to mention Thanatos, for followers, convinces his followers to strike
out looking for a new home, a "holy land," sometime just before 1500 BC, as
they are already struggling with endless humanoid raids, Nithian expansion,
and whatever remains of the fallout from the "Elven Cataclysm." The group
of pilgrims consists of both Antalian and a few Nithian followers. They set
out, heading west. Along the way they pick up a few more Nithian-descended
believers (maybe of the migrating Traldar), and perhaps just a few
Sindhi/Atruaghins and a great deal of desert nomads. This motley group
settled in the area west of the treacherous Black Mountains and built their
holy land. As with the Alphatian-Cypric civilization, sometimes the lesser
influences the greater: although there were more Antalian pilgrims than any
other group, the pilgrims assimilated the Nithian/Traldar culture enough
over time that it became dominant (the Byzantines becoming more "Greek" than
"Roman," if you will). Of course, Hule developed its own, unique society
and traditions, owing to religious influence.>>
IMHO the Antalian influence need not to exist. I think that Loki didn't
"import" his followers from the Antalians, but that he simply converted the
Nithians living in the Hule area to the new faith of Bozdogan. Think about
this: why should Loki bother to change his name (from Loki to Bozdogan) if
the Antalian already knew him as the Patron of Mischief and Lies under the
name of Loki?? IMO then, he only converted the Nithians living in the Hule
area (for the Nithians already lived there! Think about their expansion far
to the Savage Coast: it is not unlikely that a tribe of Nithians settled in
Hule maybe with some slaves taken along from Sind like the Traldars did in
nowadays Karameikos) rather then inspiring a migration of Antalian AND
Nithians during such a difficult time as u propose (1500 ca). Also,
converting the remaining Nithians of Hule could have been a major stroke to
further embarass his former patron Rathanos, and unknowingly aiding the
Immortals in erasing the last Nithian culture living on the KW.
Then if u wanna have a Thyatian influence, it could be derived by Slagich
(Traldar) culture or by the Thyatian settlers who came to the region at the
beginning of the 10th century. Besides, as u say, the Hulean culture has
been strongly influenced by Nithian and Sindhi culture, and i may add
something also from the Yavldom Divinarchy.
<<What do "y'all" think? Plausible? I have two big catches, though: Where
does the name "Hule" come from? And how do you think Bozdogan
(affectionately, "Bozie") got that name, precisely?>>
Good and thorough research, and as for where Bozdogan came from and what it
means, well, i dunno: maybe it's the "goat droppings" we're all desperately
looking for (only Bruce knows... ;) btw, congrat Bruce for your son, even
though a bit late)
<< (BTW, my "anonymous" source, in his "On the Imperial Period of Taymoran
Culture," says "As the Nithians are to the RW's Ancient Egyptians, so are
the Taymorans to the RW's Sumerian/Babylonian/Assyrian/Mesopotamian
cultures." Could this have later slightly influenced the Alphatians, via
Nithia, and added to their culture?) Just a thought . . .>>
Could be, but since nothing official has ever been released about the
Taymora, it's all speculation. Anyway, it could be likely... and in this
case we should stick to your "Mystaros" (whoops, i meant "anonymous") source
for knowing anything more about this.
DM
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 12:45:49 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: [Mystara] TSR products
Has anyone news about the shipping month of the TSR products scheduled for
1997? They said it was August, but nothing came out in the countries i
visited -UK, Austria and Italy (excluding the Dragon issue). So, what's the
news in the US?
DM
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 12:30:30 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Patera Project: some thoughts
At 09:07 AM 8/13/97 -0700, Cthul wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Aug 1997, DM wrote:
>
>> Mmh.. i don't have the Dragon issue detailing Myoshima, so it's maybe a lack
>> in my background info, but i didn't know the myoshimans had flying
>> sabretooth tigers. How do they look like and where do they come from?
>> (crossbreed of eagles and sabretooth tigers seems unlikely :))
>
>There was actually a bit of confusion on this issue. The artwork in #160
>shows winged tigers. In the same article (IIRC), Haldemar mentions flying
>collars that allow them to fly, but then in a later article (when the PA
>is chasing Herr Rolf), the tigers are winged once more. You'll have to
>ask Bruce what the deal was for sure. :)
So, Bruce: can u explain this one, please? And congrats for the baby :)
>For one thing, Patera would have still been in motion, orbiting Mystara,
>so the Rakasta would end up wherever they happened to by orbiting over at
>that time (which, for convenience's sake, I supposed was Ochalea). The
>main thing was, I wanted some sort of plausible (plausible for a magical
>fantasy world) way to get them down to the surface of our favorite
>planet, and the VV explanation, in conjunction with Japanese myths about
>divine winds, seemed to best fit. Then I thought, why suddenly all these
>VVs now, instead of earlier or later? Their migration tied in with
>climactic changes on the planet around then, and since the moons can
>affect the planet's tides, etc, why not the reverse as well?
I've thought a lot about it and i came to the conclusion that your
hypothesis indeed holds. My problem was that i was considering the thing
using a scientific approach, not considering that Mystara is essentially a
MAGIC world. So, as i've said, your idea sounds now perfectly good to me :)
>> Good one. But then in your entry for Rahjastan you say that those rakastas
>> were the real ancestors of the Isle of Dread and Bellayne rakastas. So my
>> question is: where did these Ochalean rakastas flee after the expulsion??
>
>*shrug* They could have gone all over the place, like the Lupins. :)
They could be the ones found in the Isle of Dawn and maybe in the MOrient
setting (if there are any)...
>> Hey, wait! Here you mention Bellayninsh activity in Patera, and in the
>> entry for Selimpore you say that Rakastas from Bellayne discovered and
>> colonized (or better, conquered) that part of Patera. Now, my question is:
>> how did these rakastas manage to reach up to the moon and come back??? IIRC
>> Bellayne has no skyships nor flying sabretooth tigers, so where's the trick??
>
>Ummm... I didn't really give this one much thought, either, was just
>toying with the concept at the moment. :(
So, seems we do have a major problem here: in order to build a colonial
empire, Bellayne must have a secure means of transportation from Mystara to
Patera and vice versa to control its territories (i still think it's a great
idea the parallel u drove with RW UK). Maybe they used some sort of ancient
artifact from the Oltec civilization? Or developed a spell that transported
them to Patera? Dunno really...
>> RAJAHSTAN
>>
>[On the Rakshasa bit]
>
>The Rakshasa, as I have them, aren't exactly like the Rakshasa of AD&D.
>They are more a strange result of lycanthropy affecting the Rakasta
>population, and while they have some new and different abilities, aren't
>all that different from the rest of the Rakasta population; Rakshasa is
>simply a Sindhi word given them that distinguishes them from 'regular'
>Rakasta.
>
>I agree with you that, if we were to make them more 'traditional'
>Rakshasa, as in the AD&D rulebooks, that some sort of magical
>experimentation or what have you would be a better explanation for their
>appearance.
I see... So what do we do? Do we introduce AD&D Rakshasa or your OD&D
version. I think that if u choose the second option u should think about
changing the name of the race just to avoid misunderstandings.
>> Another thing is the connection between the Sindhi and the Rajahstan
>> culture. It is my opinion that it may have gone as u suggested, that's to
>> say that Rakshasa and rakastas staying in Sind migrated to Patera and
>> settled in Rajahstan, but i also think that given the rakshasas powers and
>> cunning, they might have been able to take seats in the ruling body of
>> Rajahstan, so that now a good half if not more of the twelve realms are
>> ruled by Rakshasas. Wether they hide their real nature using illusions or
>> not it's yet to decide.
>
>Possibly, though I think most shapeshifters have been driven out of Sind
>by mages who could see through their illusions (and, as I have it, by
>friendly shapeshifter hating Lupins who also seem to have the ability to
>sense shapeshifters; at least lycanthropes.)
Well, it could also be that they have come to power and that now they have
declared that in each of their dominions the rakshasa are to be held in high
consideration, much like living gods walking on the earth (moon??)... This
way they cannot be persecuted by any wizards or rakshasa hater (the same
happened in Morlay Malinbois...)
DM
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 17:20:06 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Lupin Immortals
I was wondering about the nature of the Lupin Immortals of Renardy. Are
they real lupins who attained immortality or just the same immortals under
new names? And in the first case, what's their story? And what's the
official Renardois religon like?
If anyone has answers (Bruce?), please enlighten me!
DM
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 16:47:51 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Schattenalfen Issue
Thorfinn wrote:
<<According to their history in the Atlas section, the Schattenalfen are an
offshoot from the Shadow Elves of the City of the Stars, who changed their
allegiance from Rafiel to Atzanteotl. But this clearly can't be so, since
the City of the Stars is founded almost 400 years AFTER the Schattenalfen
arrive in the Hollow World.
If anyone can see a way round this problem, I'd really like to hear it.>>
OK, this is an interesting issue i hadn't spot, so thank you Thorfinn for
pointing it out. After reading throughly the three most important
sourcebooks covering the part of the Shadowelves' history we're discussing
(HW, GAZ13 and HWR1: Azca), i've come to the conclusion that the whole
problem has been (unwillingly i'd say) originated by Aaron Allston. In fact,
when he writes (HW, DM's Sourcebook, page 13, entry for BC 1,500):
"Increasing number of shadowelves (especially those of the Schattenalfen
clan) turn from the worship of Rafiel to that of Atzanteotl [...]", he's
just making the first of the two big mistakes which have then caused our
Shadowelves-Schattenalfen issue. The second one can be found at page 83 of
the same book, where in the second paragraph of the second column he states
that the SE built the City of Stars just after they went underground for the
first time (after the Blackmoor catastrophe) around 2,900-2,700 BC (see the
first line of third paragraph to date this event: "More than a thousand
years later, ca. BC 1,700 [...]")
What this all means is that Aaron Allston was convinced that the City of
the Stars had been built immediately after the Rain of Fire, and with this
assumption in mind he wrote the entry for the Schattenalfen. On the
contrary, we do know from the GAZ13, HWR1 and even from the same HW set
(page 14, entry for BC 1,104) that the SE found the Refuge of Stone in 1,104
and that they completed the construction of the City of Stars in BC 1040.
So, the first entry i quoted cannot be considered true, cause the SE didn't
yet worship Rafiel in 1,500 BC, and the second one is likewise wrong because
the City of Stars was built more that 1,500 years after the Great Rain of
Fire! This means that every reference about these data made by Aaron Allston
in his HW DM's sourcebook must be updated using the info given in GAZ13.
As for the Schattenalfen, they're indeed an offshot of the first SE but
they didn't come from the City of Stars: they didn't even know there was a
City of Stars until year AC1014. The only problem we face now is the story
of Aengmor.
According to all the three books i've quoted, the SE invaded Mictlan in BC
1,420 driving out the Azcans living there (Atruatzin and his followers) and
began the costruction of the city around the temple which was then
consacrated to Atzanteotl, completing Aengmor in BC 1,352. Then, in BC 1,290
the city was destroyed by Atzanteotl himself using a false eruption and many
elves died, while some others managed to escape and fled deeper underground.
Now the point is that, according to GAZ13, ALL the SE participated in the
conquer and in the construction of Aengmor because Atzanteotl had lulled
most of them into worshipping him. In HW set however, Allston writes that
ONLY the Schattenalfen clan had listened to his words, and Atzanteotl had
sent one group of Schattenalfen to the HW, while the other had been guided
to discover Mictlan where they had to drive off Atruatzin and to build a
great sacred city for him.
These two versions are obviously in contrast. The first one one assumes
that the whole SE race has worshipped Atzanteotl for about 200 years and
then converted to the teachings of Rafiel when Aengmor was destroyed and
they discovered the Refuge of Stone in their flee. The second one states
that only the Schattenalfen followed Atzanteotl and that only a small group
of them built Aengmor. Now, IMHO the version given in GAZ13 (the first one)
is not acceptable, mainly for one reason: if Atzanteotl was able to trick
the whole SE race into worshipping him, why should he let them go by
destroying their city? We do know that one of his main aims in life is to
wrestle away the SE from Rafiel's guidance, so why did he let them go if he
really cared about them? Moreover, i don't think that Aengmor was big enough
to contain all the SE who were underground. The version given by Aaron
Allston is much more likely true. Of the SE living underground, only the
Schattenalfen (the newcomers -remember: they were the survivors of the
Glantri Catastrophe) listened to Atzanteotl's dark whispers and followed his
advices. One group went to the Hollow World while another found Mictlan and
after slaughtering all the Azcans living there (who weren't many after all,
since they were outcasts following Atruatzin and all lived inside a small
temple) built Aengmor to worship their patron. In this case also, Atzanteotl
had three good reasons to displace them: they were a small number, they
didn't breed as fast as he wanted and above all the humanoid race above
ground was far more mischievous and prolific than the Schattenalfen of Aengmor.
However, two other points trouble me: first of all, it seems unlikely that
the SE have wandered underground for more than 1,500 year before discovering
the Refuge of Stone, and even if they didn't wander, then what made them
look for it? Also, the SE know the legend of the fabled City of Aengmor
(even though i still don't understand what's THEIR version of the story and
why they hold it so sacred) as we do know by the Wrath of the Immortals
events. So this makes me think if it was really only the Schattenalfen who
built it...
After too much thinking and too much writing (sorry for the length of this
letter), i have thereby come to the conclusion that the truth lies in the
middle (as usual). I think that most of the elves that built Aengmor were
Schattenalfen, let's say 2/3 of them, but at least one third were normal SE
(belonging to the other four clans). It is then possible that some of the
elves who escaped the disaster of Aengmor returned to their brethern and
started telling about the wonderful city they had built and about how
peaceful and bountiful was the life they led there. Maybe this has caused
many SE to think about discovering this city and to build it anew, and in
the following years some brave explorators have traveled the deeper caverns,
stumbling upon the Refuge of Stone (or maybe they were really guided there
by Rafiel). Thinking they had found the right place to live and a new good
Patron, all the SE moved there, and built the City of Stars trying to
emulate the beauty of the fabled (and never seen) Aengmor. Maybe the
survivors of Aengmor joined their cousins forgetting Atzanteotl's ways, or
maybe headed deeper to find the surviving Schattenalfen, inspired by
Atzanteotl (some of the surivivors actually arrived to Schattenalfheim
according to canon material), or maybe remained among the SE to secretly
convert them to the cult of Atzanteotl.
So, this is what i think has happened: i hope i've been of any help to
you, Thorfinn, and to any other poor soul who has had the guts of reading
this letter to this last word.
DM (who else?)
dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/3090
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 15:01:25 +0200
From: Deathwatch <deathw@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [Mystara] New Dragon
Heyas,
I was going to my usual game store in Amsterdam, looking for the new
Dragon (the one with the Lupin article) and I noticed it didn't have it...I
went to another store, and they didn't have it as well...this really
sucks...it seems that they don't have it in Amsterdam...I hope I can find
it in Utrecht, otherwise, it would really suck....
Bas - Who is pissed
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 14:29:17 -0400
From: MRJohnson <johnson@execulink.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupin Immortals
DM wrote:
>
> I was wondering about the nature of the Lupin Immortals of Renardy. Are
> they real lupins who attained immortality or just the same immortals under
> new names? And in the first case, what's their story? And what's the
> official Renardois religon like?
> If anyone has answers (Bruce?), please enlighten me!
>
> DM
With the exception of Saimpt Renard, they are all lupins who gained
immortality; however there is very sketchy information available on
them, particularly on their lives before they became Immortal. Saimpt
Renard is actually Korotiku under a different name (although Lupins will
deny this, believing that Saimpt Renard was a lupin as well).
Michael Ray Johnson.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 18:45:10 +0300 (GMT)
From: sq7s@dc.uba.ar (Sebastian Quiles)
Subject: [Mystara] Halfling Immortals...
It's only to my campaing... it's there a Halfling who was reached the
rank of immortality?.... in the WoTI I didn't found any one...
- --
Sebastian Quiles
================
Universidad de Buenos Aires
ARGENTINA
mailto:sq7s@dc.uba.ar
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 07:31:31 -0400
From: arkaxa <arkaxa@geocities.com>
Subject: [Mystara] Portal to Sigil
Hey everyone... with Mystara being the most magical based world in the
multiverse, where could there be a portal to Sigil (Planescape setting)
outside of the Hollow World?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 16:05:48 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Halfling Immortals...
On Tue, 19 Aug 1997, Sebastian Quiles wrote:
> It's only to my campaing... it's there a Halfling who was reached the
> rank of immortality?.... in the WoTI I didn't found any one...
As far as I know, there are four Hin (Halfling) Immortals. Nob Nar,
Coberham and Brindorhin are revered as heroes in the Five Shires and they
provide spells to the Halfling Masters. They are only mentioned in the
Five shire's Gaz. I dont have it with me presently so I cant give you any
more details right now. also there is Usamigras who is worshipped in
cynicedia (spl), a lost city below Ylaruam...
Hope this helps...
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 10:38:06 -0400 (WST)
From: Arlles Gaunthair <arlles@cygnus.eq.ufrj.br>
Subject: [Mystara] RULES: Halav worshippers.
Hello everyone :)
I am mailing this to ask you about the religious of Halav. I have
seen in the Net that weapons allowed to clerics of this mythos is slashing
and piercing, swords and etc... But my DM is allowing only blundgeon weapons,
according to the players handbook.
Well, i ask you about the documents where are described this mythos
and ethos of Halav to read about. Things like: "Is it true that clerics of
Halav have 1/10 HD instead 1/8 ??"
Thanx for your help!!
ass: Luciano Garcia (Arlles)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 16:12:14 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Portal to Sigil
On Wed, 20 Aug 1997, arkaxa wrote:
> Hey everyone... with Mystara being the most magical based world in the
> multiverse, where could there be a portal to Sigil (Planescape setting)
> outside of the Hollow World?
>
Could be anywhere. I'd suggest Alphatia or Glantri. It should probably not
be widely known...
I know there is a shadowelf mentioned in some Planescape accessory, so,
there could be some portals hidden underground. Note that I and many
others consider the AD&D Multiverse another dimension. That doesn't make
it impossible to get there offcourse...
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 10:29:59 -0400 (WST)
From: Arlles Gaunthair <arlles@cygnus.eq.ufrj.br>
Subject: [Mystara] RULES: Multi-class restrictions. (fwd)
Hello everyone :)
I am mailing this to ask about some doubts about the multi-class
restrictions about PC's */*/Magic-user. Reading the players book 2nd ( i
am only a player, not a DM ), i did not find a reason that make sense to
a magic-user not use armor if he is a multi-class.
A multi-class char, if he begun as fighter for example, should to
be able to wear a armor without great problems. May you ask: "Well, this
turn dificult to make gestures and use spell components". But if i am not
using this sistem, what goes against armor use?? (Actually i am using mana
system)
I ask you all for opinions about this rule, DM's and players! And
if you have optional rules or ideas, i will be glad to receive it :)
This is my first post to the list and english is not my first lan
guage, so excuse me for errors.
ass: Luciano Garcia (Arlles)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 16:20:14 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hello
On Tue, 19 Aug 1997, gnighmen wrote:
> Hello All
>
> I just thought I'd write a short message of greeting to everyone on the
> list, seeing as I am new to the list.
>
> I was just wondering if perhaps there was an official homepage out there
> where I can find stuff that the list has come up with. I'd like to know
> where things stand before I stamp on anyone elses terrain.
check out Leroy's homepage at http://www.io.com/~oryon/mysthome.htm
Leroy's the keeper of the list. Also, there are several other Mystara
pages out there on web. My homepage has links to quite a few.
Hey Leroy, how come I'm not on the registry page yet? didn't you get that
mail?
Haavard
- ---
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 12:26:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Portal to Sigil
On Wed, 20 Aug 1997, arkaxa wrote:
>Hey everyone... with Mystara being the most magical based world in the
>multiverse, where could there be a portal to Sigil (Planescape setting)
>outside of the Hollow World?
From what I know about Planescape (which is surprisingly little :) ),
isn't the answer "anywhere"?
If you want a highly-magical place for a portal, I can think of a few:
the Chateau d'Ambreville, a Magic Point in Alfheim/Aengmor, a number of
spots in Alphatia (now underwater), Glantri City...
I'll tack on another question here: I've been told that in "Faces of
Sigil", there's a shadow elf from Mystara. Could somebody post what that
book says about Mystara and how the elf managed to get to Sigil? Thanks.
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 10:00:04 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] RULES: Halav worshippers.
On Wed, 20 Aug 1997, Arlles Gaunthair wrote:
> I am mailing this to ask you about the religious of Halav. I have
> seen in the Net that weapons allowed to clerics of this mythos is slashing
> and piercing, swords and etc... But my DM is allowing only blundgeon weapons,
> according to the players handbook.
> Well, i ask you about the documents where are described this mythos
> and ethos of Halav to read about. Things like: "Is it true that clerics of
> Halav have 1/10 HD instead 1/8 ??"
This sounds like the specialty priest writeups for the Immortals done by
Bruce Pierpont a while ago. Note that, though they are well done, they
are not 'canon' materials, and are just meant to help flesh out the
classes of priests as per AD&D 2nd edition rules for "Specialty Priests".
If your DM is only allowing blunt weapons, I could see that for two
reasons- 1)You are playing a 'standard' cleric, as opposed to a Specialty
Priest, 2) he is using 1st edition rules.
Well, there's option 3) that he just prefers clerics of any sort only
using blunt weapons for personal reasons. In any case, unless you are
very convincing, DMs judgement is usually the final word on any issue.
BTW, Bruce P., did you ever finish all the standard Immortals as
presented in WotI? :)
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V2 #126
*****************************
From: owner-mystara-digest@ (mystara-digest)
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #127
Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
Sender: owner-mystara-digest@
Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@
Precedence: bulk
mystara-digest Monday, August 25 1997 Volume 02 : Number 127
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 11:49:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ambreville@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Portal to Sigil
In a message dated 97-08-20 09:51:48 EDT, Arkaxa writes:
<< Hey everyone... with Mystara being the most magical based world in the
multiverse, where could there be a portal to Sigil (Planescape setting)
outside of the Hollow World? >>
Pandius seems like a good place to start...
Bruce Heard
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:19:43 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Halfling Immortals...
On Tue, 19 Aug 1997, Sebastian Quiles wrote:
> It's only to my campaing... it's there a Halfling who was reached the
> rank of immortality?.... in the WoTI I didn't found any one...
In GAZ8, it mentions that the High Heroes (Nob Nar, other famous Halfling
heroes) were all Immortals.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 11:56:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ambreville@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] New Dragon
In a message dated 97-08-20 10:39:35 EDT, Bas writes:
<< Heyas,
I was going to my usual game store in Amsterdam, looking for the new
Dragon (the one with the Lupin article) and I noticed it didn't have it...I
went to another store, and they didn't have it as well...this really
sucks...it seems that they don't have it in Amsterdam...I hope I can find
it in Utrecht, otherwise, it would really suck....
Bas - Who is pissed >>
Sorry to hear this. You might want to email your concern to TSRDragon@AOL.com
(Dave Gross, Editor od Dragon Magazine) -- there might be a way to purchase a
copy straight from TSR/WotC's mail order. I think his AOL account will stay
up until the end of this month. After that, all TSR employees working in
Seattle will have a. XXX@Wizards.com account. You can find these from the
Wizards web site (or later the TSRInc site). Good luck.
Bruce Heard
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:21:37 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Portal to Sigil
On Wed, 20 Aug 1997, arkaxa wrote:
> Hey everyone... with Mystara being the most magical based world in the
> multiverse, where could there be a portal to Sigil (Planescape setting)
> outside of the Hollow World?
How about Itheldown Castle (on Ithel Island in Lake Amsorak). It was at
least magical enough to make an ideal place for the summoning of a
Roaring Demon (Razrog). I've always toyed with the idea that it was a
sort of nexus between the planes that PCs could use... at least once the
demon has been dealt with. :)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 11:43:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ambreville@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Lupins Rule Fix
Bentoncast@aol.com (BentonCast) wrote:
>The RS Book says that a Lupin (presumably a Ranger) who takes tracking gets
>the skill at his Wisdom +6
>The Dragon article says its 1/2 Wisdom +6.....then it goes down as the
>"senses" go from high to low (that part I understand at least)
>Which is it Bruce.....WIS+6 or 1/2 WIS +6? I got a player whos making a
>FoxFolk Ranger for a Campaign I'm begining on Saturday.....whats the scoop?
Good point. Here's what the RS book says, on page 123, col. 1, par. 4:
***They [lupins] also have the tracking ability, but with a score equal to
half their Wisdom rounded up. A lupin character who spends a slot to take the
tracking proficiency gains the ability at full Wisdom rating, like rangers of
other races. Lupin rangers have the ability at a rating equal to their Wisdom
score +6.***
The article refers only to lupin *rangers* (see Dragon 237, page 73, Table
2), which in this case is both inaccurate and incomplete. Following the
above, here's what I would suggest instead.
Non-ranger lupins or lupins that did not use up slots for the tracking
proficiency would have a natural tracking ability at half their Wisdom scores
(I would still allow the +6 bonus, contrary to what RS implies) -- assuming
of course these are lupins with High Senses. With Medium Senses instead, they
just get 1/3 their Wisdom score +3, and 1/4 +1 for Low Senses.
If they ARE rangers or they spent slots to earn the tracking proficiency,
then they would have the full Wisdom score +6 -- assuming High Senses. With
instead Medium senses, the rating should then become 3/4 Wisdom +3, and 1/2
Wisdom +1 for Low Senses. This should get the tracking ratings more in line
with the original RS material.
Snort... Any other questions?
Bruce Heard
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 16:58:20 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Schattenalfen Issue
At 16.47 19/08/97 +0200, DM wrote:
<snip>
> According to all the three books i've quoted, the SE invaded Mictlan in BC
>1,420 driving out the Azcans living there (Atruatzin and his followers) and
>began the costruction of the city around the temple which was then
>consacrated to Atzanteotl, completing Aengmor in BC 1,352. Then, in BC 1,290
>the city was destroyed by Atzanteotl himself using a false eruption and many
>elves died, while some others managed to escape and fled deeper underground.
>Now the point is that, according to GAZ13, ALL the SE participated in the
>conquer and in the construction of Aengmor because Atzanteotl had lulled
>most of them into worshipping him. In HW set however, Allston writes that
>ONLY the Schattenalfen clan had listened to his words, and Atzanteotl had
>sent one group of Schattenalfen to the HW, while the other had been guided
>to discover Mictlan where they had to drive off Atruatzin and to build a
>great sacred city for him.
> These two versions are obviously in contrast. The first one one assumes
>that the whole SE race has worshipped Atzanteotl for about 200 years and
>then converted to the teachings of Rafiel when Aengmor was destroyed and
>they discovered the Refuge of Stone in their flee.
Actually GAZ13 says that after leaving Aengmor the Shadow Elves wandered
underground until they found the Refuge of Stone, then they settled in the
Great Cavern and started worshiping Rafiel, though not all elves thought
that was a good choice, because they still reminded what happened in
Aengmor with Atzanteotl.
>The second one states
>that only the Schattenalfen followed Atzanteotl and that only a small group
>of them built Aengmor. Now, IMHO the version given in GAZ13 (the first one)
>is not acceptable, mainly for one reason: if Atzanteotl was able to trick
>the whole SE race into worshipping him, why should he let them go by
>destroying their city? We do know that one of his main aims in life is to
>wrestle away the SE from Rafiel's guidance, so why did he let them go if he
>really cared about them? Moreover, i don't think that Aengmor was big enough
>to contain all the SE who were underground.
Atzanteotl let the SE go, because of their low population growth rate and
low cruelty.
About destroying their city, everyone here knows that Atzanteotl is half mad.
Aengmor was probably big enough to contain all SE, because they were a
small group if compared to the SE population in 1000 AC. Remember that at
first all the SE lived in City of the Stars and only later 3 of the 4 clans
moved to the other caves. In 1000 AC the City of the Stars housed 250,000
elves (a really big city BTW) and Aengmor could well have sheltered as many
elves various centuries before.
Last thing: Atzanteotl is not interested in wrestling away the SE from
Rafiel's guidance, this is clearly stated in the Atzanteotl's entry in
GAZ13 (page 45).
<snip>
> However, two other points trouble me: first of all, it seems unlikely that
>the SE have wandered underground for more than 1,500 year before discovering
>the Refuge of Stone, and even if they didn't wander, then what made them
>look for it? Also, the SE know the legend of the fabled City of Aengmor
>(even though i still don't understand what's THEIR version of the story and
>why they hold it so sacred) as we do know by the Wrath of the Immortals
>events. So this makes me think if it was really only the Schattenalfen who
>built it...
SE hold Aengmor sacred because they owned that city in the past, so it
should be their again.
You know, SE aren't very skilled in diplomacy, but they're quite
possessive. :)
<you version snipped>
I prefer the version given in GAZ13.
> So, this is what i think has happened: i hope i've been of any help to
>you, Thorfinn, and to any other poor soul who has had the guts of reading
>this letter to this last word.
>
I read this twice!
rafiel@geocities.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 09:22:16 +0000
From: gnighmen <gnighmen@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hello
Greetings
> > I was just wondering if perhaps there was an official homepage out there
> > where I can find stuff that the list has come up with.
>
> check out Leroy's homepage at http://www.io.com/~oryon/mysthome.htm
> Leroy's the keeper of the list. Also, there are several other Mystara
> pages out there on web. My homepage has links to quite a few.
Without wishing to incur the wrath of the maintainer of the list the official
homepage seems to be not-as-updated as some of the other homepages. Nothing
wrong with that - I'm sure doing so takes a lot of time. Though one wonders
if abdication of that duty may be called for.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 20:29:12 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] RULES: Halav worshippers.
At 10.38 20/08/97 -0400, you wrote:
> I am mailing this to ask you about the religious of Halav. I have
>seen in the Net that weapons allowed to clerics of this mythos is slashing
>and piercing, swords and etc... But my DM is allowing only blundgeon weapons,
>according to the players handbook.
> Well, i ask you about the documents where are described this mythos
>and ethos of Halav to read about. Things like: "Is it true that clerics of
>Halav have 1/10 HD instead 1/8 ??"
I don't think clerics of Halav can use slashing and piercing weapons.
According to the Wrath of the Immortals boxed set (by far the best canon
source about Immortals IMO) clerics of Halav only special power is a +2 to
attack rolls when fighting humanoids.
Anyway I've not checked the AD&D stuff.
Bye.
- --------------
Fabrizio Paoli
brizio@lunet.it
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
- --------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 23:10:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] RULES: Multi-class restrictions. (fwd)
In a message dated 97-08-20 13:13:07 EDT, arlles@cygnus.eq.ufrj.br writes:
<< I am mailing this to ask about some doubts about the multi-class
restrictions about PC's */*/Magic-user. Reading the players book 2nd ( i
am only a player, not a DM ), i did not find a reason that make sense to
a magic-user not use armor if he is a multi-class. >>
The "Player's Option" books take an interesting approach to this question.
While by default a Wizard cannot cast spells while wearing armor, there
is an "armored wizard" option that allows Wizards to do just that. The
cost is that they don't have those points available for other options.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 00:35:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR products
In a message dated 97-08-19 08:10:21 EDT, dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it writes:
<< Has anyone news about the shipping month of the TSR products scheduled
for
1997? They said it was August, but nothing came out in the countries i
visited -UK, Austria and Italy (excluding the Dragon issue). So, what's the
news in the US? >>
Several TSR products are now on the store shelves in the US, so they should
reach other countries in a few weeks at most.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 17:18:16 +0000
From: gnighmen <gnighmen@geocities.com>
Subject: [Mystara] Maze of the Riddling Minotaur
Hello All
Looking on the TSR homepage I note that the Mystara section is somewhat
lacking to say the least. Looking further on the page it seems that
there is approval for the scanning and inclusion of the Maze of the
Riddling Minotaur product. If I remember correctly this is a Dungeons
and Dragons product, although I do not know how Mystara specific it is.
Whether it is or not I sort of thought it might be nice for it to be on
so that the Net Rep can create a Mystara section.
Now why am I saying this? I don't have the module but I do have access
to a scanner, so unless someone out there has both and are willing to do
that then it may be nice if something can be worked out if someone
living close to myself who has the module is willing to not see it for
a couple of days.
If the latter is the case then I live in Australia and we can talk via
private email.
- --
Gnighmen
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 00:42:54 PDT
From: "Herve Musseau" <herve@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Mystara] old Dragons
I noticed on TSR's homepage that the Dragons #153 and later have been
partially scanned for anybody's use, but none of the Princess Ark series
of articles are present.
Is there any reason for that (like Bruce saying niet)?
__________________________________________________________
Herve Musseau
Primary Email: herve@hotmail.com
Also: hmusseau@compuserve.com
Homepage: http://www.esiee.fr/~musseauh (not anymore it seems)
I'm a QSQWBEEEGGNFR Mystaran
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 11:06:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ambreville@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] old Dragons
In a message dated 97-08-21 04:42:59 EDT, you write:
<< I noticed on TSR's homepage that the Dragons #153 and later have been
partially scanned for anybody's use, but none of the Princess Ark series
of articles are present.
Is there any reason for that (like Bruce saying niet)? >>
I think it's a question of lack of time on Sean's part. If you're interested
in helping with the scanning and proofreading for OCR typos, please feel free
to email TSRInc@AOL.com to let him know. Else, no problem.
Bruce Heard
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 09:35:39 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Maze of the Riddling Minotaur
On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, gnighmen wrote:
> Looking on the TSR homepage I note that the Mystara section is somewhat
> lacking to say the least. Looking further on the page it seems that
> there is approval for the scanning and inclusion of the Maze of the
> Riddling Minotaur product. If I remember correctly this is a Dungeons
> and Dragons product, although I do not know how Mystara specific it is.
> Whether it is or not I sort of thought it might be nice for it to be on
> so that the Net Rep can create a Mystara section.
It's not at all Mystara specific (we've speculated, though, that a nice
placement for it might be around Davania or Minaea on the Outer World, or
the Milenian Empire in the Hollow World).
I'd think it would be kind of tough to scan it, due to the invisible ink
portions, though.
> If the latter is the case then I live in Australia and we can talk via
> private email.
Hrm. Well, I live quite a ways away, so it probably wouldn't work. ;)
Besides, I've still got too many entries not filled in with the ink pen
(which I no longer own... :(
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 22:45:22 +0100
From: Thorfinn Tait <Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk>
Subject: [Mystara] TSR Website - Mystara!
Hi everyone,
Some great news - the Mystara section of the TSR website is now up and
running! There's an excerpt from DA3, a "Mystaran Nosferatu Vampire"
description and the Shadow Elves gazetteer. Hopefully there will be
some fan stuff (like the Almanac) up there soon too!
Thorf.
=========================================
"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."
- Bilbo Baggins, "The Lord of the Rings"
Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk
Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline
=========================================
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 05:05:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: DUFFISGOD@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Portal to Sigil
In a message dated 97-08-21 01:12:48 EDT, you write:
<<
Pandius seems like a good place to start... >>
what if you replace pandius with sigil which is what i did in my campaign.
i have portals in the thothian plateau, thyatis (in the mountains near
ylarum) bellisaria, norwold, the thenegioth archipelago, sind, glantri, and
one in darkleaf tower in the shadow elf territories. the abundance of portals
is the reason that knowledge of "pandius" has leaked out
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 14:36:59 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Aleksei Andrievski <k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR Website - Mystara!
On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Thorfinn Tait wrote:
> description and the Shadow Elves gazetteer. Hopefully there will be
> some fan stuff (like the Almanac) up there soon too!
>
Hopefully they put the gazetteers and other old D&D products up there,
too.
***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord
** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but
** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us."
** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages,
** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers."
** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread."
*****************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 18:42:47 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Portal to Sigil
At 08.21 20/08/97 -0700, Cthul wrote:
>How about Itheldown Castle (on Ithel Island in Lake Amsorak). It was at
>least magical enough to make an ideal place for the summoning of a
>Roaring Demon (Razrog). I've always toyed with the idea that it was a
>sort of nexus between the planes that PCs could use... at least once the
>demon has been dealt with. :)
>
Hey! My PCs are actually dealing with that Razrog in this precise moment! If
they ever manage to defeat him, i'll let you know if there are any portals
to Sigil, OK? ;)
Anyway, my take on it is: 1)Pandius; 2)Bad Magic Point in Canolbarth;
3)Alphatia Maelstrom; 4)The Dead Place in Ylaruam
DM
dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/3090
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 13:03:35 +1000
From: "Shane" <sleep@tpgi.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Portal to Sigil
On 20 Aug 97 at 11:49, Ambreville@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 97-08-20 09:51:48 EDT, Arkaxa writes:
> << Hey everyone... with Mystara being the most magical based world in the
> multiverse, where could there be a portal to Sigil (Planescape setting)
> outside of the Hollow World? >>
>
> Pandius seems like a good place to start...
>
> Bruce Heard
Now /that/ could open up a whole can of flickers. ;)
(visions of PC Immortal Initiates wandering around Sigil)
(Sigil ignites in un-civil war. PCs: "oops")
Well, with the people I play with it would :). Hmm. Wonder if the
Immortals have a rule about Sigil to match their Prime (Material
Plane) Directive?
"Your job, should you choose to accept it, is
to enter Sigil incognito and determine what
has happened to one of our Initiate observers..."
On the other hand, I could be on completely the wrong track; I know
little about Sigil (and even the Planescape setting in general).
Shane.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 02:55:53 -0400
From: cd1express@MAIL2.LCIA.COM
Subject: [Mystara] Share with you
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 05:22:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Esherdon@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Share with you
Why are we getting spamed again? I thought this stuff was screened Arghh!!!!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 17:09:24 +0200
From: Deathwatch <deathw@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR Website - Mystara!
At 14:36 22-08-97 +0300, you wrote:
>On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Thorfinn Tait wrote:
>
>> description and the Shadow Elves gazetteer. Hopefully there will be
>> some fan stuff (like the Almanac) up there soon too!
>>
>Hopefully they put the gazetteers and other old D&D products up there,
>too.
Yeah, I would like to see the Darokin Gazetteer. I really wants some info
on Darokin (I have to wait till I get more money, so I can get myself Dawn
of the Empire boxed set and Darokin GAZ)
BTW, PC2 is cool :)
Bas van Doornspeek - deathw@xs4all.nl
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 14:30:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Portal to Sigil
I like the idea of a portal or two on submerged Alphatia. This would make
access more difficult. It is also logical that some Alphatian Mages would
have researched such portals.
Other portal locations could include New Averoigne in Glantri. The
d'Ambrevilles have a portal that leads to Old Averoigne. Matters if you want
Old Averoigne located in the PS setting.
Portals could be found in Nithia ruins in Ylaruam or Thothia's Great
Escarpment.
Then there is Davania. No telling what little secrets the Milenians created
before their civilization broke down. In Karameikos, Skorenzy keep could hold
some portal. The same portal that summoned the force that brought destruction
down upon them.
The possibilities are there. I just wouldn't use all of them. Portals are
rare and should never be easily accessable.
"The Portal to Sigil? Go down past the Portal to Ravenloft. Turn right at the
Portal to Krynn. It's next to the Portal to Oerth. Can't miss it."
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 14:24:23 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Portal to Sigil
On Sat, 23 Aug 1997 Alex295@aol.com wrote:
> Then there is Davania. No telling what little secrets the Milenians created
> before their civilization broke down. In Karameikos, Skorenzy keep could hold
> some portal. The same portal that summoned the force that brought destruction
> down upon them.
Speaking of Davania, don't forget the portal to the Carnifex' prison (From
M5? M4?). It transports people between worlds; it is located in the
Broken Lands in the module, though there is recent speculation that maybe
Davania might be more suitable.
For that matter, the Inn Between the Worlds (from the DA series) has a
strange connection to other planes in addition to it's time portal. The
upstairs landing seems to intersect the Elemental Planes- Djinnis, etc,
pop up there from time to time- it is conceivable that it might intersect
with Outer Planes as well.
And the Rainbow Bridge (from CM5) allows access to other worlds as well.
> "The Portal to Sigil? Go down past the Portal to Ravenloft. Turn right at the
> Portal to Krynn. It's next to the Portal to Oerth. Can't miss it."
The Oerth Portal is in Odd Alley. :) (Kudos to anyone who can guess the
reference)
Andrew
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 01:05:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Portal to Sigil
In a message dated 97-08-23 06:53:05 EDT, sleep@tpgi.com.au (Shane) writes:
<< Hmm. Wonder if the
Immortals have a rule about Sigil to match their Prime (Material
Plane) Directive? >>
No, but Sigil does. Immortals would qualify as "deities" or "powers" who are
not allowed to enter Sigil. So, if there is a gate to Sigil on Pandius, then
the
Immortals could not use it -- but they could send their agents and servants
there.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 05:58:57 +0100
From: Thorfinn Tait <Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR Website - Mystara!
On Sat, 23 Aug 1997 Deathwatch <deathw@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>BTW, PC2 is cool :)
I agree, PC2 is very cool. In fact it is among my favourite D&D books,
along with GAZ13, GAZ5, the Hollow World set and a few others (GAZ3,
GAZ10, Trail Maps included in those).
I've played a Skygnome, and I'd love to get one of my players to attempt
to play a gremlin some time. It would be fun, as long as we did it
right... :-)
Thorf.
=========================================
"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."
- Bilbo Baggins, "The Lord of the Rings"
Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk
Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline
=========================================
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 09:24:50 +0200
From: Deathwatch <deathw@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR Website - Mystara!
At 05:58 24-08-97 +0100, you wrote:
>On Sat, 23 Aug 1997 Deathwatch <deathw@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>>BTW, PC2 is cool :)
>
>I agree, PC2 is very cool. In fact it is among my favourite D&D books,
>along with GAZ13, GAZ5, the Hollow World set and a few others (GAZ3,
>GAZ10, Trail Maps included in those).
>
>I've played a Skygnome, and I'd love to get one of my players to attempt
>to play a gremlin some time. It would be fun, as long as we did it
>right... :-)
>
>Thorf.
That would require a lot of good roleplaying. I think it could be quite
funny (for a while) in with a party where there is at least one gnome... :)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 17:23:58 +0800
From: Glenn Butcher <knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Gremlins and Pandius
On Sun, Aug 24, 1997 at 09:24:30AM +0200, Deathwatch wrote:
> At 05:58 24-08-97 +0100, you wrote:
> >On Sat, 23 Aug 1997 Deathwatch <deathw@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> >>BTW, PC2 is cool :)
> >
> >I agree, PC2 is very cool. In fact it is among my favourite D&D books,
> >along with GAZ13, GAZ5, the Hollow World set and a few others (GAZ3,
> >GAZ10, Trail Maps included in those).
> >
> >I've played a Skygnome, and I'd love to get one of my players to attempt
> >to play a gremlin some time. It would be fun, as long as we did it
> >right... :-)
> >
> >Thorf.
>
> That would require a lot of good roleplaying. I think it could be quite
> funny (for a while) in with a party where there is at least one gnome... :)
>
Hmmm, I think I'll have to have a gremlin sneak aboard the 'Falcon'
sky-ship next time they are in Serraine. Nobody will realise for a while,
since the Falcon (while fast) is always breaking down anyway.
About Sigil and Pandius: Isn't Pandius rather like the Mystara equivalent
of Sigil anyway? The main difference is that it's not normally possible for
mortal PC's to wander around Pandius. Perhaps both could exist, with Sigil
being for mortals and Pandius being for the immortals.
Gates to Pandius might not exist directly, but gates to Pandius from
Sigil might, or the reverse. Depends on how you are handling planescape
in Mystara.
- --
knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au | "You're not very religious are you"
glennb@ichr.uwa.edu.au | Spoken by the goddess Kylara to
finger -l for pgp key | Lynard, her high priest
http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/
I suppose I should change this sig, since Lynard is now an immortal himself.
Thats the problem with having new immortals with priests not far from
immortality themselves. (Kylara is now a 2nd level immortal, Lynard is a
1st level initiate).
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 06:01:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] TSR Website - Mystara!
In a message dated 97-08-24 04:49:21 EDT, you write:
<< I've played a Skygnome, and I'd love to get one of my players to attempt
to play a gremlin some time. It would be fun, as long as we did it
right... :-)
Thorf. >>
I have never played a gremlin as a PC, thought the idea is interesting. I
have used them as NPC encounters.
In one such incident, the party came across a band of gremlins laughing and
giggling about one of their last feats of annoyance. We had snuck up on the
gremlins. This was aided by the facts that they were so engrossed in their
own bragging.
Surrounded they started to scurry about. One of my PCs, a Shye-Lawr Elf, was
a follower of Eiryndul. Before long the PC had calmed the gremlins with his
talk of his own deeds of trickery and his Immortals own practice of pranks.
Imagine the scene, the gremlins sitting calmly if not at times a bit
excitedly chatting it up with the elf. Each swapping stories and relishing
the moments. All the while the other PCs are standing around dumbfounded. To
give them something to do while this was going on I did have a couple of
gremlins try to fiddle with their gear, pick their pocket, etc.
The gremlins were well aware of the objective of the PCs, a wizards tower in
Blackheart. They had at times ventured there to plyy their skills on the
mage's servants, experiments, and so on. They gave the elf some valuable info
on the tower layout as well as guards. In return, the PCs lost a few hours
and later discovered the firing mechanism on one of their crossbows wouldn't
work and that one of the waterskins had developed a slow leak around the
spout (dribble glass). Oh well gremlins will be gremlins.
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 14:53:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Portal to Sigil
On Sun, 24 Aug 1997 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote:
>Immortals would qualify as "deities" or "powers" who are not allowed to
>enter Sigil.
A random question from a non-Planescape-player:
Does an Immortal's "Mortal Identity" count as a power?
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 20:05:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Portal to Sigil
In a message dated 97-08-24 17:00:02 EDT, dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca (Daniel
Boese) writes:
<< A random question from a non-Planescape-player:
Does an Immortal's "Mortal Identity" count as a power? >>
Ah yes -- I think you have found a loophole there. A Mortal
Identitiy should indeed be able to enter Sigil, as it is just that --
mortal.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:23:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Portal to Sigil
On Sun, 24 Aug 1997 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote:
>> A random question from a non-Planescape-player:
>>Does an Immortal's "Mortal Identity" count as a power?
>Ah yes -- I think you have found a loophole there. A Mortal
>Identitiy should indeed be able to enter Sigil, as it is just that --
>mortal.
<grin> Glad I could help.
So... does anybody care to play with the idea of an Immortal, possibly
using an Avatar, using a Mortal Identity to "infiltrate" Sigil, possibly
resuming Manifestation Form once inside?
I have to wonder what the Lady of Pain would do... especially since all I
really know about her is her name.
(If anybody cares to pose this quandry to the Planescape mailing list to
get their opinions, please do, and let us know the response.)
Of course, this ties into the usual "Immortals in AD&D" quandry, part of
which is the "Immortals vs Gods" quandry (part of which is the Immortal
Thor vs the God Thor, etc), part of which is the "D&D Outer Planes vs AD&D
Planes/Dominions/Whatever" quandry... but that's for another thread. :)
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 10:05:19 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Portal to Sigil
On Mon, 25 Aug 1997, Daniel Boese wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Aug 1997 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote:
> >> A random question from a non-Planescape-player:
> >>Does an Immortal's "Mortal Identity" count as a power?
> >Ah yes -- I think you have found a loophole there. A Mortal
> >Identitiy should indeed be able to enter Sigil, as it is just that --
> >mortal.
> <grin> Glad I could help.
> So... does anybody care to play with the idea of an Immortal, possibly
> using an Avatar, using a Mortal Identity to "infiltrate" Sigil, possibly
> resuming Manifestation Form once inside?
> I have to wonder what the Lady of Pain would do... especially since all I
> really know about her is her name.
> (If anybody cares to pose this quandry to the Planescape mailing list to
> get their opinions, please do, and let us know the response.)
> Of course, this ties into the usual "Immortals in AD&D" quandry, part of
> which is the "Immortals vs Gods" quandry (part of which is the Immortal
> Thor vs the God Thor, etc), part of which is the "D&D Outer Planes vs AD&D
> Planes/Dominions/Whatever" quandry... but that's for another thread. :)
I was thinking. Maybe the Immortals have a rule about always using mortal
identity in the AD&D Multiverse (assuming it is another Dimension).
Perhaps they want to remain unknown from their God twins. It seems likely
to me that the Gods of AD&d know little of other dimensions (especiacially
since they were not mentioned in any AD&D ssupplement :)
I kinda like the idea of the immortals having agents in Sigil :)
Haavard..
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 04:49:36 -0400
From: "John W. Mangrum" <iggy@capital.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Portal to Sigil
Daniel Boese wrote:
>
> So... does anybody care to play with the idea of an Immortal, possibly
> using an Avatar, using a Mortal Identity to "infiltrate" Sigil, possibly
> resuming Manifestation Form once inside?
> I have to wonder what the Lady of Pain would do... especially since all I
> really know about her is her name.
> (If anybody cares to pose this quandry to the Planescape mailing list to
> get their opinions, please do, and let us know the response.)
I'll pose the quandry for ya, but first let me ask a question. See, I
only got into Mystara when it changed over to AD&D, so I'm much more
conversant in Planescape than D&D's version of the planes.
So, to help me out over there, what exactly is an Immortal's Mortal
Form, and how is it different from an Avatar?
J.W.Mangrum
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V2 #127
*****************************
From: owner-mystara-digest@ (mystara-digest)
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #128
Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
Sender: owner-mystara-digest@
Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@
Precedence: bulk
mystara-digest Wednesday, August 27 1997 Volume 02 : Number 128
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 13:36:39 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Portal to Sigil
On Mon, 25 Aug 1997, John W. Mangrum wrote:
> I'll pose the quandry for ya, but first let me ask a question. See, I
> only got into Mystara when it changed over to AD&D, so I'm much more
> conversant in Planescape than D&D's version of the planes.
>
> So, to help me out over there, what exactly is an Immortal's Mortal
> Form, and how is it different from an Avatar?
An avatar, in D&D-terms is a another body controlled by the Imortal. Its
like a clone, although it doesn't have to be ideantical with any of the
imortals forms. It is a way for the imortal to be on different places at
once. (Note that Avatars in D&D are optional)
The Mortal Form is one of the forms the actual imortal appears in. (He
also has one incorporeal form and one manifestation form or more)
If a mortal form is killed, it is much more serious than the simple loss
of an avatar. The soul of the immortal is dragged back to his homeplane
where it can regain its power. The loss of an avatar is merely the loss of
powerpoints.
An imortal cannot use its manifestation or incorporeal forms on the Prime
Material since that is a violation of the Imortal Law. Both Rad and Ixion
did this during the showdown at Wrath of the Imortals.
Håvard.
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 10:41:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: DavidN64@aol.com
Subject: [Mystara] D&D
Is Dungeons and Dragons Shadow over Mysteria out for the PC? What about
Advanced D&D?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 13:39:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ray Brooks <rabrooks@bg1.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] D&D
That reminds me of something I've been wondering about....
What IS "Shadow over Mystara"? I've seen numerous websites on
this topic that come up under various Mystara searches, but I haven't been
able to find one in English. Could anyone enlighten me? I'm really
curious about this one.
ray
On Mon, 25 Aug 1997 DavidN64@aol.com wrote:
> Is Dungeons and Dragons Shadow over Mysteria out for the PC? What about
> Advanced D&D?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 17:07:43 -0400
From: Eric Guindon <95390525@callisto.si.usherb.ca>
Subject: [Mystara] Glantry Dracologist
I'm starting a campaing in Mystara and one of my players want to play a
Magic User-Dracologist from Glantry. I have one small problem and it's
with the 3rd circle of the dracologist, the one were the MU could use a
breath weapon...
Do you use the method were the MU breath half is hit point (like the
first dragon breath) or do you use the dragon from the Monstrous
compendium?
If you're using the one in the monstrous how do you adapt the age of the
dragon and the level of the spell caster? Do you have any suggestion?
Thanks
Mylkior du grand Marais
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 17:37:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] D&D
On Mon, 25 Aug 1997, Ray Brooks wrote:
> What IS "Shadow over Mystara"? I've seen numerous websites on
>this topic that come up under various Mystara searches, but I haven't been
>able to find one in English. Could anyone enlighten me? I'm really
>curious about this one.
"Shadow Over Mystara" is the second of two arcade games (the first being
"Tower of Doom") loosely set in Mystara. It's a scrolling game, like the
classic Double Dragon 2. If the URL still works, there's a FAQ at
http://student.uq.edu.au/~s337186
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 20:06:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Portal to Sigil
In a message dated 97-08-25 01:47:26 EDT, dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca writes:
<< So... does anybody care to play with the idea of an Immortal, possibly
using an Avatar, using a Mortal Identity to "infiltrate" Sigil, possibly
resuming Manifestation Form once inside?
I have to wonder what the Lady of Pain would do... especially since all I
really know about her is her name. >>
I suspect that an Immortal may be unable to resume Manifestation form
while within Sigil. After all, if the Lady of Pain can prevent gods from
entering, then she should be able to keep Immortals from assuming
Manifestation form -- remember that in Wrath of the Immortals any
Immortals who were in their Mortal Identity forms were stuck in them
during the Week of No Magic. Such "anti-magic" is probably within the
abilities of the Lady of Pain.
Of course, one question would be whether the attempt to assume
Manifestation form would alert the Lady of Pain in any way. If she
does become aware of the attempt, then that Immortal can count on
being permanently "mazed" -- effectively cut off from the rest of the
multiverse in a pocket dimension created just to imprison him.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 21:22:06 -0400
From: "John W. Mangrum" <iggy@capital.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Portal to Sigil
Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote:
>
> The Mortal Form is one of the forms the actual imortal appears in. (He
> also has one incorporeal form and one manifestation form or more)
> If a mortal form is killed, it is much more serious than the simple loss
> of an avatar. The soul of the immortal is dragged back to his homeplane
> where it can regain its power. The loss of an avatar is merely the loss of
> powerpoints.
OK, thanks for the clarification. From this description, I'd say that a
D&D Immortal's Mortal Form is close enough to an AD&D God's Avatar that
the Lady wouldn't allow it in Sigil.
J.W.Mangrum
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:12:42 -0500
From: brunciak <brunciak@erols.com>
Subject: [Mystara] Hardball
Greetings to all!
I'm new to this list but am very interested in Mystara. I was thinking
of creating a set of rules in order to role-play a Hardball game rather
than just use the proficiency given in Dawn of the Emperors. If anyone
has a set of rules written already or thoughts and ideas on this I'd
really appreciate it and all of the input you have to offer. THANKS!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 13:44:22 +0800
From: Glenn Butcher <knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Portal to Sigil
On Mon, Aug 25, 1997 at 09:21:46PM -0400, John W. Mangrum wrote:
> Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote:
> >
> > The Mortal Form is one of the forms the actual imortal appears in. (He
> > also has one incorporeal form and one manifestation form or more)
> > If a mortal form is killed, it is much more serious than the simple loss
> > of an avatar. The soul of the immortal is dragged back to his homeplane
> > where it can regain its power. The loss of an avatar is merely the loss of
> > powerpoints.
>
> OK, thanks for the clarification. From this description, I'd say that a
> D&D Immortal's Mortal Form is close enough to an AD&D God's Avatar that
> the Lady wouldn't allow it in Sigil.
>
> J.W.Mangrum
One point that nobody raised: a mortal form is indistinguishable from
an ordinary mortal, even to another immortal. (Correct me if I'm wrong).
Glenn
- --
"Ka BOOM!" [The expected last battle cry of Lynard the elemaster]
knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au | glennb@ichr.uwa.edu.au
Home page: http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/
finger -l for pgp public key
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 08:48:24 EDT
From: Neal Daskal <URND@MARISTC.MARIST.EDU>
Subject: Re[2]: [Mystara] Portal to Sigil
>> > The Mortal Form is one of the forms the actual imortal appears in. (He
>> > also has one incorporeal form and one manifestation form or more)
>> > If a mortal form is killed, it is much more serious than the simple loss
>> > of an avatar. The soul of the immortal is dragged back to his homeplane
>> > where it can regain its power. The loss of an avatar is merely the loss of
>> > powerpoints.
>>
>> OK, thanks for the clarification. From this description, I'd say that a
>> D&D Immortal's Mortal Form is close enough to an AD&D God's Avatar that
>> the Lady wouldn't allow it in Sigil.
>>
>One point that nobody raised: a mortal form is indistinguishable from
>an ordinary mortal, even to another immortal. (Correct me if I'm wrong).
Also remember that in order to enforce the "prime directive", guardian
Immortals regularly scan the PMP for others in Manifestation Form.
(using the Immortal Eye spell IIRC) The Mortal Form is invisible to
this scan. The Lady (I know nothing about Sigil) would have to have
a more powerful scrying ability/spell than this to detect the Mortal
Form. As a KNOWN WORLD/DD bigot (we don't need no steenking AD&D),
I'd be unreceptive to any entity on any plane below Old One power
level able to do this. Now if The Lady is established as being at
that level, fine. Also recall that the characteristics of Mortal
Form include the inability to use any Immortal powers EXCEPT that
to change form (one round) to another Form. Not an Avatar in D&D
by any stretch.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 16:14:09 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Glantry Dracologist
At 17.07 25/08/97 -0400, Eric Guindon wrote:
>Do you use the method were the MU breath half is hit point (like the
>first dragon breath) or do you use the dragon from the Monstrous
>compendium?
Using the old D&D rules, the breath weapon of dragons (and in this case, the
breath weapon of a Dracologist) does the total amount of HP the
dragon/dracologist possesses when he breathes. A normal ST vs Breath weapon
is allowed to halve damage. I'd rule that's the same for the AD&D version.
DM
dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/3090
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 16:18:04 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hardball
At 00.12 25/08/97 -0500, Brunciak wrote:
> I was thinking of creating a set of rules in order to role-play a
Hardball game >rather than just use the proficiency given in Dawn of the
Emperors. If anyone
>has a set of rules written already or thoughts and ideas on this I'd
>really appreciate it and all of the input you have to offer. THANKS!
I suggest you to read the description of Tlachtli game in GAZ10, the Orcs of
Thar, which is basically a ruder and tougher version of hardball. In that
book are described the rules for playing Tlachtli as well as the rules
applying to one who has the Tlachtli proficiency (general skill) both in and
out of the game.
But this question brings to me another one: is there anyone here who has
ever staged a tlachtli or hardball game for his/her player characters? If
so, how did it go?
DM
dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/3090
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 16:11:18 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Ixion and Vanya in Narvaez
Yesterday i was reading thru the Savage Coast book once again when i was
suddenly struck by a strange realization. In Narvaez Ixion is the leading
immortal, and the Inquisitor (Vanya) is his lackey, the one who's
responsible for enforcing Ixion's faith. Now, this has led me to four questions:
1) If Ixion and Vanya were allies in Narvaez, what happened there during the
Wrath of the Immortals, when they became fierce opponents in the KW? And
what's up now: are they still "friends", with Vanya serving Ixion as the
Narvaezan faith would have it?
2) Why should Vanya agree to serve Ixion as his "Law Enforcer" in Narvaez?
This doesn't sound like her normal behaviour to me...
3) Since Ixion is worshipped as the primary Immortal in most of the Savage
Baronies, and since the people of the Savage Baronies are Thyatian
colonizers (Ispans), it is then possible that Ixion is also (or was also)
worshipped in Thyatis and that the Ispans have brought with them that faith
when they left. Is it possible then (IYO) that an Ixion church still exists
in Thyatis?
4) Why should Vanya strip the Heldannic Knights of their powers because of
their Holy Crusade and not do the same with her followers in Narvaez, where
she's revered as the Inquisitor? (Unless the Inquisitor in the Savage
Baronies is not Vanya herself...)
OK fellas, thanx for your time and patience. Have a nice day (or night,
whatever).
DM
dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/3090
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 16:10:05 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Avatar and Immortal Identity
J.W. Mangrum wrote:
>>So, to help me out over there, what exactly is an Immortal's Mortal Form,
and how is it different from an Avatar?<<
Basically, an Immortal Mortal form is a mortal shell that has different
statistics from the Immortal ones, though the Immortal may still use his
Power Points while in Mortal form (called an Identity).
An avatar, on the other hand, is a living part of the Immortal's essence,
basically another body with the same statistics of the Immortal
Manifestation Form (the primary one). Each avatar is completely independent
and can act of its own free will, even though each avatar serves the will of
the Immortal who created him (after all, he's still part of him!). Just to
make an example (which is NOT intended to be blasphemous): the relationship
between an Immortal and his avatar is similar the one existing between God
and Jesus (difficult to understand, i know ;)), whereas an Immortal mortal
Identity is something like Zeus masquerading as a swan or a human to court
his mortal lovers. Hope i've been clear enough: this question was not an
easy one to answer.
Glenn Butcher wrote:
>>One point that nobody raised: a mortal form is indistinguishable from
an ordinary mortal, even to another immortal. (Correct me if I'm wrong).<<
I won't, cause you're right. Dunno how the things go in Sigil, but i doubt
the Lady of Pain would be able to spot an Immortal in mortal identity
traveling thru her city... the point it: why should an Immortal bother to
visit Sigil? :)
Oh, just one last thing. I still support the idea we'd better leave
Planescape out of Mystara Multiverse, using the normal layout of Outer and
Inner Planes designed for THIS campaign. I'd leave Planescape to the AD&D
Multiverse, meaning with this definition the Dimension where Toril, Oerth
and Krynn are to be found, which i call the Spelljammer Multiverse (for
obvious reasons). After all, why should we allow Planescape in our Mystara
campaign and after we rejected Spelljammer?
DM (who loves Spelljammer and couldn't care less about Planescape)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 11:09:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Mystara] Portal to Sigil
In a message dated 97-08-26 10:45:11 EDT, you write:
<< Also recall that the characteristics of Mortal
Form include the inability to use any Immortal powers EXCEPT that
to change form (one round) to another Form. Not an Avatar in D&D
by any stretch. >>
Only given Immortal Power a Mortal form has is the ability to understand and
speak any language. May be able to read them too, but I am uncertain.
Also, the mortal form is of any class and level the Immortal wishes. Most
appear as high level clerics (36th level).
Then there are the Titans that can be called to assist. Anyone know if the
Titans can be detected by the Immortal Eye Spell?
On the subject of Titans- Entropic Immortals use Fiends instead of Titans.
Given the the history of Titans, what backgrounds do Fiends have? Were they
once potential Immortals in Sphere of Entropy? Or are they beings called of
from the negative plane to serve the Entropic Immortals? Never really been
clear on that. Imagine a bad guy from the past being placed in the role of
Fiend as reward for being evil. Could be a great plot device concerning old
enemies.
Alex
BTW, since AOL is shutting down the TSR Online Area, there should be an
increase of AOL people here. Should be interesting.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 00:40:52 +0800
From: Glenn Butcher <knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Hardball
On Tue, Aug 26, 1997 at 04:17:44PM +0200, DM wrote:
>
> But this question brings to me another one: is there anyone here who has
> ever staged a tlachtli or hardball game for his/her player characters? If
> so, how did it go?
>
Ask and ye shall receive.
On one particular day, the party had one disaster after another. They
failed to kill the big bad dragon (being rescued), failed to rescue the
fair maiden from the evil cultists (instead a fair maiden priestess with the
party was also sacrificed) and generally made a hash of matters.
Having returned from yet another unsuccessful adventure, the party decided
that there was more profit in using their skills in less dangerous ways.
Thus was born the Happy Halfling Brewery, Goth's stonemasonry, the Karameikan
Kats shipping company, and the Karameikan Kats hardball team. The company
(and team) mascot was the familiar of a party member, an elven cat.
I played out a few of the games in detail, with attack rolls etc, making
up the rules sometimes as I went along. Other teams included the
Glantri giants (with a real giant on the team) and the Shraek Spectres.
(Lucky for the party level-draining creatures were banned from the game
after the famous incident in 1211. Spectators casting spells [esp
Meteor Swarm] was banned at the same time.)
The opposition was tough, but with a great amount of luck the characters
won the tournament in their 3rd year of playing.
The party eventually had enough of semi-retirement, and resumed more normal
adventuring again.
- --
"For a copper!" [The battle cry of Lynard the fire elemaster]
knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au | glennb@ichr.uwa.edu.au
Home page: http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/
finger -l for pgp public key
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 15:31:28 -0400
From: "John W. Mangrum" <iggy@capital.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Portal to Sigil
Neal Daskal wrote:
>
> Also remember that in order to enforce the "prime directive", guardian
> Immortals regularly scan the PMP for others in Manifestation Form.
> (using the Immortal Eye spell IIRC) The Mortal Form is invisible to
> this scan. The Lady (I know nothing about Sigil) would have to have
> a more powerful scrying ability/spell than this to detect the Mortal
> Form. As a KNOWN WORLD/DD bigot (we don't need no steenking AD&D),
> I'd be unreceptive to any entity on any plane below Old One power
> level able to do this. Now if The Lady is established as being at
> that level, fine. Also recall that the characteristics of Mortal
> Form include the inability to use any Immortal powers EXCEPT that
> to change form (one round) to another Form. Not an Avatar in D&D
> by any stretch.
I'd say that the Lady of Pain does have that ability. Within Sigil,
she's basically all powerful, with the ability to kill gods.
I will say that if she can't detect a mortal form, an Immortal might be
able to get in. If that Immortal then took a more powerful form while
in Sigil, the Lady would probably warn the Immortal to leave Sigil
forever. If the Immortal didn't take this advice and leave immediately,
the Lady would destroy him.
J.W.Mangrum
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 20:43:48 GMT
From: lysander@mstop.com (Lysander)
Subject: [Mystara] Digest #125
Does anyone out there subcribing to the digest form of this list have
#125? I never got it, so if someone could either forward it or send it
as an attachment I'd appreciate it.
Thanks!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 13:28:41 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Mystara] Portal to Sigil
On Tue, 26 Aug 1997 Alex295@aol.com wrote:
> Then there are the Titans that can be called to assist. Anyone know if the
> Titans can be detected by the Immortal Eye Spell?
I wouldn't think so, since they aren't technically Immortals. They're
classified as Exalted, right?
> On the subject of Titans- Entropic Immortals use Fiends instead of Titans.
> Given the the history of Titans, what backgrounds do Fiends have? Were they
> once potential Immortals in Sphere of Entropy? Or are they beings called of
> from the negative plane to serve the Entropic Immortals? Never really been
> clear on that. Imagine a bad guy from the past being placed in the role of
> Fiend as reward for being evil. Could be a great plot device concerning old
> enemies.
Fiends were originally (Gold Box by Frank Mentzer) Immortals of the
Sphere of Entropy. Full fledged Immortals, not Exalted creatures like
they are now.
Since the change, I'd say they're sort of on the level of the (original)
Beastmen and the (current) Titans and Monster Rulers (a concept, Btw,
that I think is sort of dumb, but...). In other words, they are probably
the souls of particularly evil and nasty mortals that were preserved by
their patron Immortals and placed into powerful new bodies, in order to
continue their nastiness. Probably the Immortals went to retrieve the
souls from Limbo and brought them to their Outer Planes and found them
new bodies.
Of course, I don't see why the Fiends might not also be considered on the
level of Minions and Masters of Chaos from Limbo, save that they are
explicitly described as having ties to Entropy. It might make an
interesting option to instead rule that the Fiends are Immortal
representatives of Chaos from Limbo, and that they don't have any
implicit ties to the Immortals. That would put them back in line with
their (IMO) original intent, which was to provide difficult challenges to
Immortal level characters, and would make them that much more fierce.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 97 21:27:39 UT
From: "Alan Jones" <AlanDerekJones@classic.msn.com>
Subject: RE: [Mystara] Hardball
DM Asked ...
>>But this question brings to me another one: is there anyone here who has
>>ever staged a tlachtli or hardball game for his/her player characters? If
>>so, how did it go?
>>
>>DM
>>
>>dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
>>
>>www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/3090
Yep I've staged a game of tlachtli. 6pc's vs 6 mummified Azcan warriors
controlled by a Azcan mummy. It was great fun. Especially as it took a while
for the PC's to pick up on the rules (they just 'happened to stumble on to the
court and awake the undead!).
They eventually won (despite much cheeting on the part of the mummies - they
had substitutes!) It ended up much like the scene in Flash Gordon where they
play American Football in Ming's palace.
Trimus D'Alberon
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8306/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 19:35:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Portal to Sigil
In a message dated 97-08-26 00:01:19 EDT, you write:
<< OK, thanks for the clarification. From this description, I'd say that a
D&D Immortal's Mortal Form is close enough to an AD&D God's Avatar that
the Lady wouldn't allow it in Sigil. >>
On the other hand, Mortal Identity forms do not register to other Immortals
as being Immortal, and they have no powers beyond those of a powerful
mortal. That was my basis for thinking that Mortal Identities could get into
Sigil -- but if they did, surely some magic of the Lady of Pain would prevent
any Immortal from assuming Manifestation form while there. She might
even be able to make an Immortal forget that he is an Immortal -- in which
case he will have learned a most valuable lesson when he finally leaves
Sigil!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 18:57:20 +0100
From: "Leroy Van Camp III" <malacoda@lesbois.com>
Subject: [Mystara] [ADMIN] Stuff...
Mystarans,
Well, though I probably wasn't missed, I had yet another absence from
the
list, and e-mail as a whole. Not long after getting my new computer
working,
the phone company was kind enough to cut our service. Seems my roommate,
who takes care of the phone bill, ran up $897 in long distance, and let it
go
unpaid for a while.
But, all is fine, for now.
A few things I thought I would address...
> Does anyone out there subcribing to the digest form of this list have
> #125? I never got it, so if someone could either forward it or send it
> as an attachment I'd appreciate it.
All digests are archived, and can be found at the Mystara Mailing List
home
page at...
http://www.io.com/~oryon/mysthome.htm
> Hey Leroy, how come I'm not on the registry page yet? didn't you get that
> mail?
Excuse me while I look stupid...
When I got my new computer a few directories from my old machine did
not get
moved over before I sold it off. One of these directories was one chock
full of
textfiles, in which the newest entries to be added to the registry were in.
Here soon I will be calling for new entries, and anyone whom I did not
get
around to adding last time can resubmit.
I really am sorry. Fear not, though. My new textfile directory is now
a
subdirectory of one that routinely gets backed up.
> Why are we getting spamed again? I thought this stuff was screened
Arghh!!!!
Nothing sent to the list from subscribers gets screened. This would be
a gargantuan task. It is possible for people not subscribed to send e-mail
to the list. It is possible that this can be changed, but is not as easy
as it
sounds, and is somewhat undesirable from an administrative standpoint.
I assure you, I hate spam as much as anyone else. But considering how
little we
recieve, I do not conisder it a significant problem. Every list I am on
recieves the
occasional spam.
When the list gets spammed I send e-mail to the originating site's post
master,
letting them know what happened. Sometimes I get a response, sometimes I
don't.
> Without wishing to incur the wrath of the maintainer of the list the
official
> homepage seems to be not-as-updated as some of the other homepages.
Nothing
> wrong with that - I'm sure doing so takes a lot of time. Though one
wonders
> if abdication of that duty may be called for.
Oh sure, make me feel inadequate...
Rest assured, the problem is being dealt with. Someone else is now the
offical
archiver, and is currently setting up a page (Howzit going, Jenni?)
Well, that's it for now...
Leroy Van Camp III
malacoda@lesbois.com
owner-mystara-l@io.com
"You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle."
MST3K
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 17:35:48 -0700
From: "Patrick" <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ixion and Vanya in Narvaez
> In Narvaez Ixion is the leading
> immortal, and the Inquisitor (Vanya) is his lackey, the one who's
> responsible for enforcing Ixion's faith. Now, this has led me to four
questions:
I myself wondered about this when I first came across it, and I found
several references that made me believe that there's more to this than
meets the eye:
WotI states that Vanya was a secret ally of Rad, at least at first, so she
could very well have fooled Ixion into trusting her for a long time.
Savage Baronies states that the theological infighting in Narvaez was
verging on civil war 5 years earlier (AC1007), and this could very well
have been a result of a schism between Vanya and Ixion. Perhaps Ixion was
furious at Vanya for betraying him when the Heldannic Knights and Thyatis
both declared war on Alphatia, and he began telling his clerics in Narvaez
that the Inquisition was wrong. But the Inquisitors had such a firm grip
on the nation already that civil war threatened, and Baron Hugo seized
control by creating an outside enemy and declaring war (Hugo himself is
probably a follower of Vanya, or at least her puppet).
Remember, Ixion was very busy with other matters, so he likely had almost
no time to correct the error of the people of Narvaez. Vanya's worship
increases in times of war, so, IMC, Vanya now controls Narvaez in the name
of Ixion. As a real-world example, look at the Spanish Inquisition: were
the Inquisitors really doing God's work? Many people would say no.
Similarly, the church of Ixion in Narvaez could actually be controlled by
followers of Vanya. The Inquisitors cannot be condemmed by the clergy of
Ixion, because they will say that such a condemnation is blasphemy because
they are protecting Ixion. It would feed itself of fear so that the true
believers of Ixion would be afraid to speak out.
Vanya kept her alliance with Rad secret until the perfect moment. In this
way she managed to place her Knights and Thyatis between Alphatia and
Glantri as WotI said, but she also successfully prevented Narvaez from
being of any use to Ixion in the war, and she may have gained complete
control of the nation as well.
> 3) Since Ixion is worshipped as the primary Immortal in most of the
Savage
> Baronies, and since the people of the Savage Baronies are Thyatian
> colonizers (Ispans), it is then possible that Ixion is also (or was also)
> worshipped in Thyatis and that the Ispans have brought with them that
faith
> when they left. Is it possible then (IYO) that an Ixion church still
exists
> in Thyatis?
Ixion is by no means the primary immortal of the Savage Baronies.
According to the Red Steel Boxed Set, he is barely worshipped at all
outside Narvaez. IMC, the Church of Ixion in Thyatis was never terribly
large or powerful, but about a century ago, it became VERY unpopular with
the powers that be in Thyatis. Many followers of Ixion fled persecution in
the mainland, going instead to the "New World" of Narvaez, where the
prospect of religious freedom was much more realistic. The Narvaezan
version of Ixion-worship seems to bear a strong sense of monotheism, so if
you want a church of Ixion in Thyatis, my advice would be to make it a sort
of underground religion persecuted by the authorities, similar to
Christianity in the Roman Empire before its conversion.
> 4) Why should Vanya strip the Heldannic Knights of their powers because
of
> their Holy Crusade and not do the same with her followers in Narvaez,
where
> she's revered as the Inquisitor? (Unless the Inquisitor in the Savage
> Baronies is not Vanya herself...)
IMHO, Vanya effectively captured Narvaez through the Inquisition, so she
knows exactly how dangerous one can be. She enjoyed bringing about Ixion's
downfall through an Inquisition in his name, and she's afraid that someone
else may be doing the exact same thing with her knights, but with the
intention of hurting her. She knows that the only thing Ixion could have
done to prevent her taking Narvaez would have been to intervene early and
deny spells to any of his clerics who followed the inquisition. She uses
that knowledge, hurting herself in the short-run, but saving herself and
the Heldannic nation she worked so hard to build for the long-run. On the
other hand, her followers in Narvaez are doing their jobs wonderfully, so
she has no need nor desire to punish them.
Well, I've rambled on quite a bit, so I'll stop. I hope you found this
somewhat useful, or at least an interesting perspective:)
Patrick
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 08:05:21 +0200
From: Luca Toni <SpellsMaster@geocities.com.com>
Subject: [Mystara] A paladin problem
Hi! There is a problem in my group of friends, wich obviously play
OD&D.
One of my friend, (Davide), has a paladin but this character raigns over
a country This is the opinion of our master: he says that in the rules
(companion player set, page17, italian version) is clear (I think not so
clear) that if the warrior set down a raign, he is a ruler, instead if
the warrior follow a church and travel over the world, he can be a
paladin
(of Petra in this case). Davide ask why he can't follow a church and
reign
at the same time. His character has been a simple paladin (he travels a
lot) for some years, and a good day he got the occasion to become a
baron.
He accepted and reign (as active Petra paladin) for some years. A bad
day
our master sad: you can't still use the paladin powers because the rules
says ... You have two choice: lose the paladin powers and continue to
reign
or lose the reign and still be a paladin. While you choose one of them,
you can continue to reign but you can't use the spells, the turning
undead
power and the other paladin powers.
Please help Davide :-(
P.S.: If you are interested in our adventures, our DM has wrote them
down. You can find them in my second homepage. Here the address:
http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/6202.
Enjoy reading the Luce Perenne Story (there are only the first 3
chapters
of our story) :-)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 09:01:56 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Fiends (was: Portal to Sigil)
At 13.28 26/08/97 -0700, Cthul wrote:
>On Tue, 26 Aug 1997 Alex295@aol.com wrote:
>
>> On the subject of Titans- Entropic Immortals use Fiends instead of
>> Titans. Given the the history of Titans, what backgrounds do Fiends have?
>
>Fiends were originally (Gold Box by Frank Mentzer) Immortals of the
>Sphere of Entropy. Full fledged Immortals, not Exalted creatures like
>they are now.
>
>Since the change, I'd say they're sort of on the level of the (original)
>Beastmen and the (current) Titans and Monster Rulers (a concept, Btw,
>that I think is sort of dumb, but...). In other words, they are probably
>the souls of particularly evil and nasty mortals that were preserved by
>their patron Immortals and placed into powerful new bodies, in order to
>continue their nastiness. Probably the Immortals went to retrieve the
>souls from Limbo and brought them to their Outer Planes and found them
>new bodies.
>
Yes, i still follow the old Immortal Codex (gold box), but there's one thing
that puzzles me. Demons (fiends, whatever u call them) are very different
from normal Immortals in many ways, but the most striking feature is that
they can be damamged by mortal magic and that they have a limited number of
Power Points they can spend to create a magical effect, thus restricting the
spells they can cast (according to old rules). Now, this assumed, what do
you think happens when handling Alphaks, who is technically a Roaring
Demon?? Can he be hit by weapons with only +3 bonus (as per normal Roaring
demons) and by mortal spells (having to roll a Saving Throw vs Magic that is
quite high!!)? Is he limited in casting his spells? Or for some strange
reasons these rules don't apply to those immortal fiends that progress
beyond their normal "monster level"?
Also, could it be that by gaining Immortal levels some enthropic Immortals
(specifically the demons) go thru a transformation that changes their form
from the lowliest one (Screaming fiend) to the biggest one (Roaring)? Dunno
really, it's just a thought...
DM
www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/3090
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 16:14:05 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Aleksei Andrievski <k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Fiends (was: Portal to Sigil)
On Wed, 27 Aug 1997, DM wrote:
> you think happens when handling Alphaks, who is technically a Roaring
> Demon?? Can he be hit by weapons with only +3 bonus (as per normal Roaring
> demons) and by mortal spells (having to roll a Saving Throw vs Magic that is
> quite high!!)? Is he limited in casting his spells? Or for some strange
> reasons these rules don't apply to those immortal fiends that progress
> beyond their normal "monster level"?
I don't think that Alphaks is really a fiend. He's just an Immortal whose
manifestation form looks like a fiend. He never was a fiend, either, he
was a mortal emperor of Alphatia.
***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord
** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but
** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us."
** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages,
** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers."
** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread."
*****************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 08:10:32 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Fiends (was: Portal to Sigil)
On Wed, 27 Aug 1997, DM wrote:
> Yes, i still follow the old Immortal Codex (gold box), but there's one thing
> that puzzles me. Demons (fiends, whatever u call them) are very different
> from normal Immortals in many ways, but the most striking feature is that
> they can be damamged by mortal magic and that they have a limited number of
> Power Points they can spend to create a magical effect, thus restricting the
> spells they can cast (according to old rules). Now, this assumed, what do
> you think happens when handling Alphaks, who is technically a Roaring
> Demon?? Can he be hit by weapons with only +3 bonus (as per normal Roaring
> demons) and by mortal spells (having to roll a Saving Throw vs Magic that is
> quite high!!)? Is he limited in casting his spells? Or for some strange
> reasons these rules don't apply to those immortal fiends that progress
> beyond their normal "monster level"?
For info on dealing with Alphaks from a mortal PC perspective, see M1:
Into the Maelstrom, by our very own Bruce Heard (and his wife, IIRC). At
the end, the PC's face off against Alphaks in his Roaring Demon/Fiend
form. I think he is treated just like a regular RD, though I don't recall
for sure.
> Also, could it be that by gaining Immortal levels some enthropic Immortals
> (specifically the demons) go thru a transformation that changes their form
> from the lowliest one (Screaming fiend) to the biggest one (Roaring)? Dunno
> really, it's just a thought...
What I'd say, with the new rules for them (from WotI)- and this much is
at least implied therein- is that the "lesser" fiends are given the shape
of their most prominent rulers, or else that certain Immortals design
their Manifestation Forms after certain existing fiend types. Either one
seems to work.
------------------------------
Date: 27 Aug 1997 10:33:05 -0500
From: Alan Shutko <ats@ACM.ORG>
Subject: [Mystara] Re: A paladin problem
>>>>> "L" == Luca Toni <SpellsMaster@geocities.com.com> writes:
L> Hi! There is a problem in my group of friends, wich obviously play
L> OD&D.
L> One of my friend, (Davide), has a paladin but this character raigns over
L> a country This is the opinion of our master: he says that in the rules
L> (companion player set, page17, italian version) is clear (I think not so
First, a metacomment.
Your newsreader is wrapping lines in a rather unpleasant manner. It's
probably doing so after you tell it to send, so you can't see the
problem to correct it.
In my experience, it tends to be related to maximising the window or
somesuch while writing your post, since Netscape (and others) take the
window width as the width of text to compose. Then when you send it,
they brutally wrap lines at 70-80 columns, rather than kindly
rewrapping your paragraphs.
But back to the problem at hand. Paladins exist as an alternative to
having a domain so that players who don't want/get a domain can still
have fun. So, in this light, it's a matter of game balance. Enough
said.
But in terms of in-game things, I'd still say that a paladin would
lose paladinic (?) powers upon accepting a domain. Why? As I see it,
the Immortal gave the paladin these powers so that he or she could be
a traveling symbol of the church. A reigning lord will have other
concerns which will detract from this, so the Immortal will take the
powers away. Think also, that there might be a conflict of interest
between what your domain needs and the calls of your Immortal patron.
- --
Alan Shutko <ats@acm.org> - By consent of the corrupted
My idea of roughing it turning the air conditioner too low.
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V2 #128
*****************************
From: owner-mystara-digest@ (mystara-digest)
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #129
Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
Sender: owner-mystara-digest@
Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@
Precedence: bulk
mystara-digest Thursday, August 28 1997 Volume 02 : Number 129
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:12:34 -0700
From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" <strawberry@jamm.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] [ADMIN] Stuff...
Leroy et al:
Leroy Van Camp III wrote:
> > Without wishing to incur the wrath of the maintainer of the list the
> official
> > homepage seems to be not-as-updated as some of the other homepages.
> Nothing
> > wrong with that - I'm sure doing so takes a lot of time. Though one
> wonders
> > if abdication of that duty may be called for.
>
> Oh sure, make me feel inadequate...
> Rest assured, the problem is being dealt with. Someone else is now the
> offical
> archiver, and is currently setting up a page (Howzit going, Jenni?)
Slowly I'm afraid. Work (for which I get paid) must take a front seat
to purely voluntary enjoyment. *sigh*
However, now that its been mentioned I realize that we never mentioned
this to the list prior to now. So, without further ado:
Yes, I offered to help Leroy out by creating and maintaining an
"official MML Archive" site. To that end I am currently combing through
the archived digests looking for significant contributions that would
benefit from being archived for the use of any and all Mystaran Fans.
Eventually, after getting things in place, I will take items off the
list as they come. Note, however, that not everything will necessarily
be included -- storage space is a partial factor here. Anyone NOT
wishing to have something they post to the list saved at the archive
should say so and it will be left off.
I plan to HTML'ize much of the information, since that often makes for
a better display than plain text. I also plan to use the most recent
version of any file that has been posted more than one, and to include
exerpts from any significant discussion on a particular item. All
contributions, no matter how small, will be duly credited to their
creators.
Note that this archive site is not the 'official MML site' -- that is
still Leroy's site. My site will just host the useful archives, and
probably have a significant pointer placed on Leroy's page. I'll
probably put up some other Mystara, D&D and RPG related things too --
I've always wanted to put up an RPG site but just never got around to it
(what with all the other sites I already have...)
I'll try to keep the list informed of progress on this front --
perhaps I'll try to get something 'bare bones' up in the next few weeks
rather than waiting to get a lot of 'good stuff' in place first.
Jenni
- -=> strawberryJAMM <=-
- --
Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html
- -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 12:45:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ben3181@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ixion and Vanya in Narvaez
In a message dated 97-08-27 03:09:27 EDT, you write:
<< > In Narvaez Ixion is the leading
> immortal, and the Inquisitor (Vanya) is his lackey, the one who's
> responsible for enforcing Ixion's faith. >>
IMHO, Ixion is the actual patron of the Narvaez. It does not however
say that he is the only one. In the Savage Coast book, it says the Ixion is
the only immortal worthy of worship (or something to that effect) in Narvaez.
So the clerics actually worship him, but Vanya is in charge of keeping every
one strait. She's not really a lackey, more like the Internal Affairs within
a police department; seperate, and charged with making sure everything goes
corectly.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 14:12:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A paladin problem
Based on the rule of the game, you can't be paladin and a
ruler at the same time. So if you DM insists that, that
is his right. Also, be a follower of a church and be a
paladin of a church is two different thing. A ruler can
still be a follower of a church. But a paladin, by D&D
game defination, is someone travels around spreading the
influence of his own church. A ruler would have no need
for most of the standard paladin power, such as healing,
turn undead, etc., as they should be taking care of by
the established church in the domain. A paladin is given
those power because he might journey into places where the
church don't have a presence yet. However, if your DM allows
perhaps the fighter could gain some other powers after
settled down depended on the immortal he worships. For
example, Halav might grant bonus towards domain confidence
rating. Vanya might grant bonus to war machine rolls,
Ka might grant reaction bonus from neighbor etc.
John Yu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 19:57:25 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Xoloitzcuintli
I'm trying to introduce Xoloitzcuintli (or Cimarron Hairless) in my ongoing
Shadow Elf campaign, but it's not that easy.
One of the 14 verses says: "If any other people desire to live among you,
let a clan adopt them, and keep them separate from you lest they offend me
(...)", so my guess is that also these lupins should live in the area known
as the Enclave in City of the Stars and may not leave the city.
My PC spent several days in the Enclave in the past, so it would be silly
to tell them that these lupins have always been there or that they suddenly
popped up, so I thought to another explanation.
In his article Bruce said that these lupins "were notorious for being
sacred guardians of Atzanteotl's inner temples", so my idea is that they
secretly lived in Oenkmar, disguised as orcs, until Shadow Elves conquered
that city and then they rejoined their former masters.
What do you think?
BTW, Bruce: what does "most of these lupins resettled northwest of the
Broken Lands" means?
Did they resettle in the northwestern area of the Broken Lands
(Bugburbia?), or did they went to Glantri or where else?
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com
DM in City Of The Stars - PC in the Forgotten Realms
Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 18:15:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ambreville@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Xoloitzcuintli
In a message dated 97-08-27 16:53:51 EDT, you write:
<< BTW, Bruce: what does "most of these lupins resettled northwest of the
Broken Lands" means?
Did they resettle in the northwestern area of the Broken Lands
(Bugburbia?), or did they went to Glantri or where else? >>
Furthwer away yet -- I would think much further west of Glantri in the
*unsettled* lands, north of Sind. From there, they could have migrated
anywhere on Brun.
Bruce Heard
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 18:21:31 +0300 (GMT)
From: sq7s@dc.uba.ar (Sebastian Quiles)
Subject: [Mystara] Swords +1,+3 vs *.*
Hey.. I have a doubt about the rule of extra bonus vs specials oponents
in weapons...
So far I can remember, in the first rules of D&D, a weapon +n,+m vs
special_oponent will have a bonus of n for all the monsters and a bonus
of m for special_oponent. In the Companion Set this rules changed (and
it's verifyed in the Rules Cyclopedia). The new rule is than the weapon
will damage with a bonus of n for all oponents and a bonus of n+m for
special_oponent, in this rules a sword can be a +3,+1 for example.
Well in WotI the sword found to kill Kalor, it's a +3,+5 (it is?) and
it's explainded than it will inflict only 2 point extras to the Dragon...
Maybe Aaron Alsron (sp?) have forgotten his own rules...but I dont
think than a Mighty DragonSlayer Sword may have only a +2 against the
DrangonKin...
Ps: a funny data: Kalor it's an apropiate name for a Red Dragon.. in
spanish Calor means Hot...
- --
Sebastian Quiles
================
Universidad de Buenos Aires
ARGENTINA
mailto:sq7s@dc.uba.ar
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 08:22:06 EDT
From: Neal Daskal <URND@MARISTC.MARIST.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Swords +1,+3 vs *.*
>Hey.. I have a doubt about the rule of extra bonus vs specials oponents
>in weapons...
>
> So far I can remember, in the first rules of D&D, a weapon +n,+m vs
>special_oponent will have a bonus of n for all the monsters and a bonus
>of m for special_oponent. In the Companion Set this rules changed (and
>it's verifyed in the Rules Cyclopedia). The new rule is than the weapon
>will damage with a bonus of n for all oponents and a bonus of n+m for
>special_oponent, in this rules a sword can be a +3,+1 for example.
My interpretation of the admittedly poorly written Companion Set rule
is that a sword generated as n=3 and m=1 would be be listed in a
module or NPC description as +3,+4. The Companion Set rule can
generate a sword up to +5,+10.
>
> Well in WotI the sword found to kill Kalor, it's a +3,+5 (it is?) and
>it's explainded than it will inflict only 2 point extras to the Dragon...
>
> Maybe Aaron Alsron (sp?) have forgotten his own rules...but I dont
>think than a Mighty DragonSlayer Sword may have only a +2 against the
>DrangonKin...
IIRC, the sword in question also has the power of extinguishing. Either
that power or some other characteristic of the sword made it something
like double damage against Kalor (other reds too I think). I agree that
the encounter in question is poorly balanced. Well-played WotI vrocks
can easily wipe out a mortal party on their own, at least at the high
teens level that the encounter is supposedly written for. I discussed
this with Aaron on GEnie and he agreed that he encounter is poorly
balanced. Add Kalor, a 160 hp red who regenerates on lightning bolt
damage, and forget it. IMC the party was wiped out (except for the
thief, who ran early). I "dumbed up" the fiends and Kalor
sufficiently so that when the Titan shows up he can win. I was able
to conduct the encounter with sufficient dramatic effect to make it
enjoyable to the players and fit the campaign (the Titan Raised the
party Cleric, who Raised the other PCs), but if played as written
it is a Killer Encounter and thus inappropriate to the supposedly
ongoing Immortal's Fury adventure.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 16:08:41 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Vanya and Storm Soldiers
Patrick Sullivan wrote:
>>IMHO, Vanya effectively captured Narvaez through the Inquisition, so she
knows exactly how dangerous one can be. She enjoyed bringing about Ixion's
downfall through an Inquisition in his name, and she's afraid that someone
else may be doing the exact same thing with her knights, but with the
intention of hurting her. She knows that the only thing Ixion could have
done to prevent her taking Narvaez would have been to intervene early and
deny spells to any of his clerics who followed the inquisition. She uses
that knowledge, hurting herself in the short-run, but saving herself and
the Heldannic nation she worked so hard to build for the long-run. On the
other hand, her followers in Narvaez are doing their jobs wonderfully, so
she has no need nor desire to punish them.<<
Following your theory and borrowing something from Mystaros' old posts, i
would hypothesize that maybe (but only MAYBE) somebody was really working
behind the scenes in Heldann to hurt Vanya using her Knights, this one
fellow being probably Orcus.
Remember that in Hattias Vanya is revered by that obnoxious racist group
known as the Storm Soldiers. But as Mystaros pointed out once: "How can a
racist group who hates and would rather enslave all women follow the words
of a Female Immortal?" I agree with his doubt here, and i agree on the fact
that the Storm Soldiers probably don't worship Vanya, but the God of War,
who i shall call the Conqueror. Now, since Vanya is also Patroness of
Conquest, it is easy to mistake her for the Immortal revered by the Storm
Soldiers. And this is IMO the point that caused Vanya's Knights to take up
their belongings in 950 AC and to go northwards to conquer Heldann. They
were part of the Storm Soldiers, but unlike the nastier members of the
brotherhood, they didn't followed the brutal aspect of the Conqueror, but
his heoric aspect. Thus an internal rift occurred in the order when some of
the soldiers and high ranking memebers refused to perform the xenophobic
deeds so common in the brotherhood, and they were then forced to sail away
from Hattias to avoid the eternal retaliation of their ex-comrades. They
later conquered Heldann and established themselves as the Heldannic Knights,
professing openly their faith in Vanya and the Patroness of Just and
Honorable Conquest.
What about those Storm Soldiers who remained in Thyatis? Who are they
worshipping, then, if it's not Vanya? Well, among the many Immortals who
have a knack for mass destruction, murder and deceit, i think Orcus is one
of the least used but with a great potential. So, given the fact that he was
also a popularly feared god in the Roman pantheon (and that Thyatis is
somewhat the mirror of the Roman Empire), then i think Mystaros' idea that
Orcus is the true god of the SS is not that improbable, quite the
contrary... Obviously the SS need not know who's the Conqueror, but they
know for sure that it's not Vanya nor any other female immortal (after all a
woman cannot be revered by sane males) and don't care about anything else.
On the other hand another hypothesis has just come to my mind... Since the
Hattians are direct descendants of the Antalians, Hel could be the
Conqueror, after all she's not new in this kind of tricks. If this is the
case, then imagine the double surprise for those pesky SS who discover their
Patron is not only an Evil Immortal of Enthropy, but also a Female immortal.
Tell me which one you prefer and why. Thanx!
DM
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 16:07:34 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Ixion and Vanya in Narvaez
Patrick Sullivan wrote:
>>WotI states that Vanya was a secret ally of Rad, at least at first, so she
could very well have fooled Ixion into trusting her for a long time.<<
Could be BUT remember: she is openly an enemy of Ixion only after 1,000 AC,
that's to say after the Fellowship of the Star and the Ring of Fire are
formed. In her background only Rathanos is listed as her enemy because of
his attitude towards women. So i think that we should consider the two as
allies in Narvaez until 1000 AC: it's from this date that Vanya begins
plotting against Ixion using her role as Iquisitor as u brightly suggested.
>>Savage Baronies states that the theological infighting in Narvaez was
verging on civil war 5 years earlier (AC1007), and this could very well
have been a result of a schism between Vanya and Ixion. Perhaps Ixion was
furious at Vanya for betraying him when the Heldannic Knights and Thyatis
both declared war on Alphatia, and he began telling his clerics in Narvaez
that the Inquisition was wrong. But the Inquisitors had such a firm grip
on the nation already that civil war threatened, and Baron Hugo seized
control by creating an outside enemy and declaring war (Hugo himself is
probably a follower of Vanya, or at least her puppet). <snipped a bit>
Vanya kept her alliance with Rad secret until the perfect moment. In this
way she managed to place her Knights and Thyatis between Alphatia and
Glantri as WotI said, but she also successfully prevented Narvaez from
being of any use to Ixion in the war, and she may have gained complete
control of the nation as well.<<
A master explanation, my compliments. I wholeheartedly agree with you! :)
>>Ixion is by no means the primary immortal of the Savage Baronies.
According to the Red Steel Boxed Set, he is barely worshipped at all outside
Narvaez.<<
I must say this time i made a blunder when i said that he was revered in all
the Baronies. My apologies: you're right, i just checked it out. I was
probably confusing him with Vanya, a terrible lapsus.
>>IMC, the Church of Ixion in Thyatis was never terribly large or powerful,
but about a century ago, it became VERY unpopular with the powers that be in
Thyatis. Many followers of Ixion fled persecution in the mainland, going
instead to the "New World" of Narvaez, where the prospect of religious
freedom was much more realistic. The Narvaezan version of Ixion-worship
seems to bear a strong sense of monotheism, so if you want a church of Ixion
in Thyatis, my advice would be to make it a sort of underground religion
persecuted by the authorities, similar to Christianity in the Roman Empire
before its conversion.<<
Very good setting. Still you must tell me why they became so much unpopular
to require an entire stock of people to travel more than 3,000 miles away
from their homeland. And why in 900 AC?
What if the Ispans were followers of Tarastia, Vanya and Valerias, and then
the ruling family of Narvaez (the first dominion to be established)
introduced the cult of Ixion taken from the native Oltec traditions? This
was meant to be an act of formal scission from their old homeland (Thyatis),
a sort of declaration of independence that started with the religious life.
Of course, after that many other petty nobles wanted to become independent
of Narvaez, and so each one took one of the old Immortals or even new ones
(Mealiden, Al-Kalim, Masauwu and Thor) as patron of their new domain,
leaving Ixion to the Narvaezan only.
This is just another interpretation, rememeber. I actually do like your own,
Patrick, and if u are able to fill in my two questions above then i think i
will switch to yours definitely (and even insert it into my own website) ;)
>>IMHO, Vanya effectively captured Narvaez through the Inquisition, so she
knows exactly how dangerous one can be. She enjoyed bringing about Ixion's
downfall through an Inquisition in his name, and she's afraid that someone
else may be doing the exact same thing with her knights, but with the
intention of hurting her. She knows that the only thing Ixion could have
done to prevent her taking Narvaez would have been to intervene early and
deny spells to any of his clerics who followed the inquisition. She uses
that knowledge, hurting herself in the short-run, but saving herself and
the Heldannic nation she worked so hard to build for the long-run. On the
other hand, her followers in Narvaez are doing their jobs wonderfully, so
she has no need nor desire to punish them.<<
The explanation holds.
DM
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 16:45:11 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Paladins
Alan Shukto wrote:
<< But in terms of in-game things, I'd still say that a paladin would
lose paladinic (?) powers upon accepting a domain. Why? As I see it,
the Immortal gave the paladin these powers so that he or she could be
a traveling symbol of the church. A reigning lord will have other
concerns which will detract from this, so the Immortal will take the
powers away. Think also, that there might be a conflict of interest
between what your domain needs and the calls of your Immortal patron.>>
Yes but, what about reigning clerics (like von Klagendorf and Hosadus)?
DM
dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/3090
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 16:44:12 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Fiends (was: Portal to Sigil)
Cthul wrote:
<<For info on dealing with Alphaks from a mortal PC perspective, see M1:
Into the Maelstrom, by our very own Bruce Heard (and his wife, IIRC). At
the end, the PC's face off against Alphaks in his Roaring Demon/Fiend
form. I think he is treated just like a regular RD, though I don't recall
for sure.>>
Yes, i do recall what Bruce and Beatrice Heard wrote in the M1 "Odissey
style" adventure about Alphaks.
So what you are suggesting is that he is a Roaring Demon, uh? Well, i just
asked because last time i used one (Razrog from Gaz11), he turned up being
polymrphed into a turtle by one of my players, and rather easily... so i was
wondering if that's the true power of a Demon, then Alphaks is not that
powerful... It could also be that he is a full immortal like let's say Loki
but that he assumed the manifestation form of a Roaring Demon with its
powers but not its weaknesses, but this is not the way he's treated in M1 IIRC.
So, maybe you Bruce can clarify a bit more?
DM
dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/3090
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 16:39:36 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Swords +1,+3 vs *.*
At 18.21 27/08/97 +0300, you wrote:
> So far I can remember, in the first rules of D&D, a weapon +n,+m vs
>special_oponent will have a bonus of n for all the monsters and a bonus
>of m for special_oponent. In the Companion Set this rules changed (and
>it's verifyed in the Rules Cyclopedia). The new rule is than the weapon
>will damage with a bonus of n for all oponents and a bonus of n+m for
>special_oponent, in this rules a sword can be a +3,+1 for example.
You got it wrong. When you roll for extra bonus against a certain type of
monster, you've got to ADD that plus to the normal plus of the sword! So,
this is basically the explanation of the rules in Expert set: the Companion
only wanted to give Dms a way to customize magical swords. There cannot be a
weapon +3, +1 vs undead (example), unless it is a cursed one (that is to say
a +3 against all but a -2 against undead, which means 3-2= +1)
> Well in WotI the sword found to kill Kalor, it's a +3,+5 (it is?) and
>it's explainded than it will inflict only 2 point extras to the Dragon...
Yes! Because it is a +3 vs the normal opponents and a +5 vs dragons
(theoretically, they rolled a +2 on the Special Bonus against creatures
tables, so +3+2=+5).
DM
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 13:18:25 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Fiends (was: Portal to Sigil)
On Thu, 28 Aug 1997, DM wrote:
> So what you are suggesting is that he is a Roaring Demon, uh? Well, i just
> asked because last time i used one (Razrog from Gaz11), he turned up being
> polymrphed into a turtle by one of my players, and rather easily...
Hmm... I don't exactly recall what the rules said. I vaguely recall there
being a slight difference in Alphaks' stats, but maybe not.
At any rate- I don't recall for sure, but does Mortal Magic affect Demons
from the Gold Box? They are still Immortals, so they should have 100% AM
vs. mortals (unless there is a difference; there may well be). In any
case, don't Roarers have a pretty darned high AM anyway?
> so i was wondering if that's the true power of a Demon, then Alphaks is
> not that powerful... It could also be that he is a full immortal like
> let's say Loki but that he assumed the manifestation form of a Roaring
> Demon with its powers but not its weaknesses, but this is not the way
> he's treated in M1 IIRC.
In any case, the way Alphaks was originally presented (in the M and CM
series modules) he wasn't supposed to be as powerful as he is now.
Certainly he should be on the level of Masters characters, but not much
more than the Roarer as originally presented.
Of course, with later projects came further expansion of his interests
and clarifications of his purposes, and he came to be a far more
important Immortal than he was originally conceived, such that the way he
is currently described he should be somewhat more powerful than a
Roarer... maybe. I think they're pretty darn powerful as it is, though.
Heck, even just giving him the full 100% immunity to Mortal Magic should
serve to keep him powerful enough without otherwise altering the stats...
unless you're playing an Immortal level campaign. :)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 13:22:45 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Swords +1,+3 vs *.*
On Thu, 28 Aug 1997, DM wrote:
> You got it wrong. When you roll for extra bonus against a certain type of
> monster, you've got to ADD that plus to the normal plus of the sword! So,
> this is basically the explanation of the rules in Expert set: the Companion
> only wanted to give Dms a way to customize magical swords. There cannot be a
> weapon +3, +1 vs undead (example), unless it is a cursed one (that is to say
> a +3 against all but a -2 against undead, which means 3-2= +1)
Damn. The more I hear aobut this, the more sense it makes, but I've
always understood the bonuses as being just as they are presented: a
sword +1, +3 vs lycanthropes being +1 normally, but +3 vs lycanthropes.
You're all saying it should then be +1 normally, and +4 vs Lycanthropes,
which actually sounds fairly correct, when comparing to AD&D, and seems
to make sense, just as a general rule... but the other is the way I
always understood it. Guess it's time to reread the rules! :)
BTW, I've always preferred the D&D magic tables to AD&D for that reason-
that you can sort of 'custom' generate magical weapons. No more "Ahh,
it's another Frost Brand"; there's so much more variety among weapons.
Although you do sacrifice some of the uniqueness of certain weapons in
AD&D- no Hammers of Thunderbolts, for example.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 15:25:15 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Spells
One of my players has an interesting question for all of you:
if I cast a spell on someone asleep and the spell allows a saving throw,
does that person get his saving throw or not (because he's asleep)?
To make things easier let's suppose that the caster doesn't need to touch
the sleeping guy and that the spell is not harmful, for example a charm
person?
If I cast charm person on someone asleep does he automatically believe that
I'm his best friend when he wakes (provided that the spell effect hasn't
expired yet) or does he get a saving throw?
- --------------
Fabrizio Paoli
brizio@lunet.it
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
- --------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 13:18:25 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@imap1.asu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Fiends (was: Portal to Sigil)
On Thu, 28 Aug 1997, DM wrote:
> So what you are suggesting is that he is a Roaring Demon, uh? Well, i just
> asked because last time i used one (Razrog from Gaz11), he turned up being
> polymrphed into a turtle by one of my players, and rather easily...
Hmm... I don't exactly recall what the rules said. I vaguely recall there
being a slight difference in Alphaks' stats, but maybe not.
At any rate- I don't recall for sure, but does Mortal Magic affect Demons
from the Gold Box? They are still Immortals, so they should have 100% AM
vs. mortals (unless there is a difference; there may well be). In any
case, don't Roarers have a pretty darned high AM anyway?
> so i was wondering if that's the true power of a Demon, then Alphaks is
> not that powerful... It could also be that he is a full immortal like
> let's say Loki but that he assumed the manifestation form of a Roaring
> Demon with its powers but not its weaknesses, but this is not the way
> he's treated in M1 IIRC.
In any case, the way Alphaks was originally presented (in the M and CM
series modules) he wasn't supposed to be as powerful as he is now.
Certainly he should be on the level of Masters characters, but not much
more than the Roarer as originally presented.
Of course, with later projects came further expansion of his interests
and clarifications of his purposes, and he came to be a far more
important Immortal than he was originally conceived, such that the way he
is currently described he should be somewhat more powerful than a
Roarer... maybe. I think they're pretty darn powerful as it is, though.
Heck, even just giving him the full 100% immunity to Mortal Magic should
serve to keep him powerful enough without otherwise altering the stats...
unless you're playing an Immortal level campaign. :)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 23:40:09 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Swords +1,+3 vs *.*
At 13.22 28/08/97 -0700, you wrote:
>On Thu, 28 Aug 1997, DM wrote:
>
>> You got it wrong. When you roll for extra bonus against a certain type of
>> monster, you've got to ADD that plus to the normal plus of the sword! So,
>> this is basically the explanation of the rules in Expert set: the Companion
>> only wanted to give Dms a way to customize magical swords. There cannot
be a
>> weapon +3, +1 vs undead (example), unless it is a cursed one (that is to
say
>> a +3 against all but a -2 against undead, which means 3-2= +1)
>
>Damn. The more I hear aobut this, the more sense it makes, but I've
>always understood the bonuses as being just as they are presented: a
>sword +1, +3 vs lycanthropes being +1 normally, but +3 vs lycanthropes.
>
>You're all saying it should then be +1 normally, and +4 vs Lycanthropes,
>which actually sounds fairly correct, when comparing to AD&D, and seems
>to make sense, just as a general rule... but the other is the way I
>always understood it. Guess it's time to reread the rules! :)
>
As I see it there's probably a misunderstanding here.
If I got it correctly DM meant that if you roll extra bonuses for a sword
+1 and you get +2 vs. lychantropes, this means that you have a sword +1, +3
(i.e. 1+2) vs lychantropes.
When attacking werecreatrues you roll normal damage and add 3, not just 2
as the first poster said.
Hope I explained my opinion clearly.
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com
DM in City Of The Stars - PC in the Forgotten Realms
Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 16:01:16 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Swords +1,+3 vs *.*
On Thu, 28 Aug 1997, Fabrizio Paoli wrote:
> As I see it there's probably a misunderstanding here.
> If I got it correctly DM meant that if you roll extra bonuses for a sword
> +1 and you get +2 vs. lychantropes, this means that you have a sword +1, +3
> (i.e. 1+2) vs lychantropes.
> When attacking werecreatrues you roll normal damage and add 3, not just 2
> as the first poster said.
> Hope I explained my opinion clearly.
Ayup, you did. And it makes a helluva lot more sense than my previous
rambling. :)
Definitely cleared this up for me, at least. :)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 19:41:37 -0400
From: "John W. Mangrum" <iggy@capital.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Spells
Fabrizio Paoli wrote:
>
> One of my players has an interesting question for all of you:
> if I cast a spell on someone asleep and the spell allows a saving throw,
> does that person get his saving throw or not (because he's asleep)?
I believe he does still receive the saving throw; in effect, he has to
be awake to choose to automatically fail. I think this was the ruling
in a Sage Advice column at some point, but my memory's fuzzy on the
point.
J.W.Mangrum
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 06:43:39 +0200
From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Magic resistance
Hi!
>At any rate- I don't recall for sure, but does Mortal Magic affect Demons
>from the Gold Box? They are still Immortals, so they should have 100% AM
>vs. mortals (unless there is a difference; there may well be). In any
>case, don't Roarers have a pretty darned high AM anyway?
In OD&D it is clear. But what´s with AD&D? There is a spell called "Lower
Resistance", which will lower the MR (or AM) by some degree (depending on
the level of the mage), if the DM (for the creature) doesn´t roll less than
half the MR. IMC it works against Immortals and excalted beings, so some of
the Immortals have higher MR than 100.
************************************************************
Peter Balazs
Wurlitzerg. 37/12
1160 Wien
0222/4816030
a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at
pbalazs@radon.mat.univie.ac.at
http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 06:43:37 +0200
From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Spells
Hi!
>One of my players has an interesting question for all of you:
>if I cast a spell on someone asleep and the spell allows a saving throw,
>does that person get his saving throw or not (because he's asleep)?
>To make things easier let's suppose that the caster doesn't need to touch
>the sleeping guy and that the spell is not harmful, for example a charm
>person?
>If I cast charm person on someone asleep does he automatically believe that
>I'm his best friend when he wakes (provided that the spell effect hasn't
>expired yet) or does he get a saving throw?
IMC, he gets a ST with a malus of 10. That´s for all spells! Because if the
spell is mind-affecting, his mind is weakened through sleep, if it´s a
damaging spell, how could he try to jump out of harm´s way, if he´s asleep?
The reason, why he still has a ST, is that the ST -10 is the basic resitance
vs. magic IMC. Sometimes I let the PCs roll against it, even when they want
a spell to function. That´s only, when they have to react and think quickly,
if they should let down their magical guiard or not.
************************************************************
Peter Balazs
Wurlitzerg. 37/12
1160 Wien
0222/4816030
a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at
pbalazs@radon.mat.univie.ac.at
http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 13:07:46 -0500
From: Rob Rickard <cmnwrld@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Vanya and Storm Soldiers
DM wrote:
> Patrick Sullivan wrote:
> Remember that in Hattias Vanya is revered by that obnoxious racist
> group
> known as the Storm Soldiers. But as Mystaros pointed out once: "How
> can a
> racist group who hates and would rather enslave all women follow the
> words
> of a Female Immortal?"
> ... i think Mystaros' idea that Orcus is the true god of the SS is not
> that improbable, quite the contrary
> ... Obviously the SS need not know who's the Conqueror, but they know
> for sure that it's not Vanya nor any other female immortal (after all
> a woman cannot be revered by sane males) and don't care about anything
> else. On the other hand another hypothesis has just come to my mind...
> Since the Hattians are direct descendants of the Antalians, Hel could
> be the Conqueror, after all she's not new in this kind of tricks. If
> this is the case, then imagine the double surprise for those pesky SS
> who discover their Patron is not only an Evil Immortal of Enthropy,
> but also a Female immortal. Tell me which one you prefer and why.
> Thanx!
> DM
I dont play much down there, but I think I will start. I have a heavy
follower of Vanya. I would like to see his reaction to the SS.
Well there is also Rathanos who believes that women should be subject to
men, But I dont think he fits well.
I think that Orcus would not be the greatest Immortal leader for the SS.
I do like the idea of Hel leading them to believe the SS are following
some other Immortal...VANYA.
Also in DotE Thanatos has over taken the identity of the leader of the
the storm soldier over: Count Heinrich Oesterhaus. I dont know if theis
is something I want IMC.
Needs soem thought.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 21:33:59 -0500
From: brunciak <brunciak@erols.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Spells
Message-ID: <3404E266.4D4E@erols.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 21:29:04 -0500
From: brunciak <brunciak@erols.com>
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Subject: Re: [Mystara] Spells
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John W. Mangrum wrote:
>
> Fabrizio Paoli wrote:
> >
> > One of my players has an interesting question for all of you:
> > if I cast a spell on someone asleep and the spell allows a saving throw,
> > does that person get his saving throw or not (because he's asleep)?
>
> I believe he does still receive the saving throw; in effect, he has to
> be awake to choose to automatically fail. I think this was the ruling
> in a Sage Advice column at some point, but my memory's fuzzy on the
> point.
>
> J.W.Mangrum
I have to agree. While none of the core rulebooks clarifies this
problem very well, (at least the ones I've read), Gary Gygax stated in
the AD&D 1st edition DMG that a saving throw is an amazing feat
performed by a character to avoid harm. He goes on further by using an
example of a chained person being allowed a saving throw against a
dragon's breath weapon. It is an instinctive ability for an adventure
to survive, through sheer will if need be. Read pg. 81, third paragraph
of the 1st edition DMG for further reference where it states,
"Magic-users understand spells, even on an unconscious level, and are
able to slightly tamper with one so as to render it ineffective..." Yes
a character should be allowed a saving throw, with penalties dictated by
the DM.
RMB
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 19:05:03 -0700
From: "Patrick" <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Vanya and Storm Soldiers
> Following your theory and borrowing something from Mystaros' old posts, i
> would hypothesize that maybe (but only MAYBE) somebody was really working
> behind the scenes in Heldann to hurt Vanya using her Knights, this one
> fellow being probably Orcus.
Indeed, I also use the "gentler" concept of the Heldannic Knights, while
the Storm Soldiers are the true bigots. I prefer to believe that even the
Storm Soldiers follow Vanya on some level, but that they mostly just pay
her lip-service. They are corrupted by entropy (perhaps Orcus and
Thanatos), but they have not abandoned their immortal, Vanya. They are
indeed sexist, but this does not completely preclude them from following a
female immortal.
In the Heldannic Territories, some of the knights began listening to the
corrupting whispers of entropy, and they unknowingly began the Inquisition
which would only hurt their patron. Vanya, by acting quickly, can stem
this corruption by refusing to answer the prayers of her Knights until they
abandon this Inquisition, as is described in the 1014 Mystaran Almanac.
You could, of course, have either a new immortal or one of the immortals of
entropy being worshipped instead of Vanya, but IMHO, it is better if the
Storm Soldiers worship Vanya, just like most Thyatians, but they
unknowingly are doing the work of an entropic immortal.
I'm not sure if Orcus is right for this. I don't remember: is he the type
to engage in long, intricate plots and the slow process of corruption? For
some reason, I think of him as something similar to Alphaks. If this is
the case, other immortals might be better. Atzanteotl would be great,
except that he already has his hands full with so many other things. I
would say probably Thanatos would be good, and perhaps even Corona.
This is really a case where each DM should choose for himself or herself.
Patrick
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V2 #129
*****************************
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To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #130
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mystara-digest Sunday, August 31 1997 Volume 02 : Number 130
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 10:37:30 +0200 (METDST)
From: "Oystein H. Lund" <kj160@hp825.lhg.hib.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Vanya and Storm Soldiers
On Thu, 28 Aug 1997, Patrick wrote:
[SNIP]
> I'm not sure if Orcus is right for this. I don't remember: is he the type
> to engage in long, intricate plots and the slow process of corruption? For
> some reason, I think of him as something similar to Alphaks. If this is
> the case, other immortals might be better. Atzanteotl would be great,
> except that he already has his hands full with so many other things. I
> would say probably Thanatos would be good, and perhaps even Corona.
> This is really a case where each DM should choose for himself or herself.
>
> Patrick
>
Didn't the "Dawn of Emperors" boxed set have something on this ?
IIRC, the reason the SS are so nutty, is that Thanatos has assumed
numerous mortal identities within the SS over the centuries, preaching
hatred and insulation. And his reason for doing so isn't even that he's
plotting something - it's just how he has fun ;)
_______________________________________________________________________
| Oeystein H. Lund ,kj160@lhg.hib.no |
|"I still consider Southern California the best evidence we have that |
| not only do aliens exist, but that they are here already. " |
|_____________________________________________________________________|
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 08:17:12 EDT
From: Neal Daskal <URND@MARISTC.MARIST.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Fiends (was: Portal to Sigil)
> Well, i just
>asked because last time i used one (Razrog from Gaz11), he turned up being
>polymrphed into a turtle by one of my players, and rather easily. i was
Say What ?!? Did you play him as a Gold Box demon or a WotI demon?
Note that the Gold Box was the operant rule when Gaz11 was written.
In any event, polymorph would have had to overcome immunity (IIRC
Gold Box demons are IMMUNE to mortal spells) or both anti-magic
and ST. Again IIRC, demons save as MU36 so they save on a
2; 95% change of avoiding the poly even if their AM fails (anyone
remember the AM for a Roarer?). This is not what I would characertize
as rather easily. Am I missing something?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 08:40:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Spells
In a message dated 97-08-29 05:59:38 EDT, you write:
<< One of my players has an interesting question for all of you:
if I cast a spell on someone asleep and the spell allows a saving throw,
does that person get his saving throw or not (because he's asleep)?
To make things easier let's suppose that the caster doesn't need to touch
the sleeping guy and that the spell is not harmful, for example a charm
person?
If I cast charm person on someone asleep does he automatically believe that
I'm his best friend when he wakes (provided that the spell effect hasn't
expired yet) or does he get a saving throw? >>
IIRC, whenever a PC is asleep they are vulnerable to attack. I think that
there was an example of this in the Red Box. Went something like this- A mage
might cast a Sleep spell on a PC. Missing the Save, he falls asleep. The Mage
pulles his trusty dagger out and slits his throat or thrusts it into his
heart. Boom the PC is dead. No multiple attacks to decide damage. I assume
this is because of the PC's inability to defend himself; defensless. I would
also assume that the same goes for spells used on a sleeping PC.
If the DM feels this is a bit harsh, then modify the rules. Allow a sleeping
PC to get a Save but with some penalty. However, I wouldn't allow such a
Save. Any PC stupid enough to go adventuring alone is asking for trouble.
But that's just my opinion.
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 09:28:11 EDT
From: Neal Daskal <URND@MARISTC.MARIST.EDU>
Subject: Re[2]: [Mystara] Spells
>IIRC, whenever a PC is asleep they are vulnerable to attack. I think that
>there was an example of this in the Red Box. Went something like this- A mage
>might cast a Sleep spell on a PC. Missing the Save, he falls asleep. The Mage
>pulles his trusty dagger out and slits his throat or thrusts it into his
>heart. Boom the PC is dead. No multiple attacks to decide damage. I assume
>this is because of the PC's inability to defend himself; defensless. I would
>also assume that the same goes for spells used on a sleeping PC.
>If the DM feels this is a bit harsh, then modify the rules. Allow a sleeping
>PC to get a Save but with some penalty. However, I wouldn't allow such a
>Save. Any PC stupid enough to go adventuring alone is asking for trouble.
The rule about cutting the throat of a magically slept character is
an explicit one from the old pre-box Red Book. It is not generalized
to any other physical or magical attack. On the contrary since a
slept character can be awakened by a creature taking a round to do
so, it is no great leap of interpretation to rule that any physical
or magical action which damages the sleeper without killing him
will wake him.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 17:00:00 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Spells
At 15.25 28/08/97 +0200, you wrote:
>One of my players has an interesting question for all of you:
>if I cast a spell on someone asleep and the spell allows a saving throw,
>does that person get his saving throw or not (because he's asleep)?
>To make things easier let's suppose that the caster doesn't need to touch
>the sleeping guy and that the spell is not harmful, for example a charm
>person?
Well, i'm pretty sure i wouldn't allow a ST vs mental attacks (spells) to a
paralyzed character (since his brain is paralyzed), but regarding a sleeping
person... well, since he's not aware of the danger and he's probably relaxed
too much, i'd rule a Saving Throw with a -4 penalty.
DM
dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/3090
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 16:57:56 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Swords +1,+3 vs *.*
At 13.22 28/08/97 -0700, Cthul wrote:
>
>Damn. The more I hear aobut this, the more sense it makes, but I've
>always understood the bonuses as being just as they are presented: a
>sword +1, +3 vs lycanthropes being +1 normally, but +3 vs lycanthropes.
Err.. yes, that's what i was trying to explain actually...
>You're all saying it should then be +1 normally, and +4 vs Lycanthropes,
No, no, wait! When u find a sword described as "sword +1, +3 vs
Lycanthropes, then it's as u said before. But when u roll in the Companion
section for magical items a sword +1 with bonus against a special foe, and
then u roll a +3 against X foe (lycanthropes in our case), then u have a
"sword +1, +4 vs lycanthropes". This is the way i've always understood it.
This way the only way u can have a sword +10 vs special foe is to have a
sword +5 vs all enemies, with another +5 vs special foe... I know it's all
scrambled, but i also know u can figure it out
DM
dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/3090
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 17:04:57 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Fiends (was: Portal to Sigil)
At 13.18 28/08/97 -0700, Cthul wrote:
>At any rate- I don't recall for sure, but does Mortal Magic affect Demons
>from the Gold Box? They are still Immortals, so they should have 100% AM
>vs. mortals (unless there is a difference; there may well be).
Nope. They are not immune to mortal magic, but alway take minimum damage.
However, since Roaring Demons Saving Throw against Magic is pretty high (10
IIRC) and since Polymorph doesn't do any physical damage, this time it was
more a drawback than a bouns for Razrog
>In any case, don't Roarers have a pretty darned high AM anyway?
They've 80%, but in that moment it was lowered cause he had cast a spell
(Feeblemind with a -12 penalty!!!) at the wizard... and the wizard's ST
succeeded!!
>. I think they're pretty darn powerful as it is, though.
>Heck, even just giving him the full 100% immunity to Mortal Magic should
>serve to keep him powerful enough without otherwise altering the stats...
>unless you're playing an Immortal level campaign. :)
>
If he's a full Immortal as Thanatos and Hel (as i think he is), then he's
safe, but if he's only a Demon (Fiend), then the things work differently for
him...
DM
dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/3090
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:14:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Spells
Fabrizio Paoli pontificated:
>
> If I cast charm person on someone asleep does he automatically believe that
> I'm his best friend when he wakes (provided that the spell effect hasn't
> expired yet) or does he get a saving throw?
>
IMO, for a mental spell such as Charm person, the target should
get regular saving throw even when he is asleep. For a physical
spell, it should either be a saving throw with a penalty, or
first a saving throw to see whether he wakes up or not, then
if he is not awake, he fail automatically. if he is awake, he
will allow a saving throw with a small penalty. I also think
normal sleep is different from a magical sleep. An adventurer
can be assumed to be relatively alert even while asleep, and
can be waken by slight unnatural sound or movement, while
magical sleep put the target into deep slumber, who will get
no saving throw to wake up.
John Yu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 17:15:06 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Fiends (was: Portal to Sigil)
At 08.17 29/08/97 EDT, Neal wrote:
>>Well, i just asked because last time i used one (Razrog from Gaz11), he
>>turned up being polymrphed into a turtle by one of my players, and rather
>>easily
>
>Say What ?!? Did you play him as a Gold Box demon or a WotI demon?
As a Gold Box Demon in the Prime Plane
>In any event, polymorph would have had to overcome immunity (IIRC
>Gold Box demons are IMMUNE to mortal spells) or both anti-magic
>and ST.
Obviously you don't remember well. I can assure u i have checked thru the
rules three times, but no, demons are VULNERABLE to mortal magic. As to the
AM, he had lowered it to cast a spell. As for his normal ST as a Roaring
Demon, it's higher than you might think (10 IIRC).
> Again IIRC, demons save as MU36 so they save on a
>2; 95% change of avoiding the poly even if their AM fails (anyone
>remember the AM for a Roarer?).
Wrong again. They save using their own Saving Throws as Immortals. Better
check it out yourself if you don't believe it.
Anyway, he wasn't defeated! I had an ace up my sleeve i used to make him
escape after they killed the lil turtle... and now he's trapped in Mystara
cause the wizard closed the portal to Razrog's homeplane forever with a
Close Gate spell... and Razrog is not very pleased... eh eh
DM
dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/3090
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 17:34:37 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Vanya and Storm Soldiers
At 10.37 29/08/97 +0200, Oeystein Lund wrote:
> Didn't the "Dawn of Emperors" boxed set have something on this ?
Nope, nothing was mentioned aside for the fact that Thanatos is slowly
manipulating Oesterhaus' son to make him his puppet.
>IIRC, the reason the SS are so nutty, is that Thanatos has assumed
>numerous mortal identities within the SS over the centuries, preaching
>hatred and insulation.
You know, this could likely explain the attitude of the Storm Soldiers in a
way, but i have to think a bit more about it. Yet, Thanatos' influence could
very well be the real cause of their behaviour.
But then, another question arises: why should Vanya permit this if she was
her patroness?????
DM
dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/3090
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 00:22:42 +0800
From: Glenn Butcher <knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Spells
On Fri, Aug 29, 1997 at 04:59:40PM +0200, DM wrote:
>
> Well, i'm pretty sure i wouldn't allow a ST vs mental attacks (spells) to a
> paralyzed character (since his brain is paralyzed), but regarding a sleeping
> person... well, since he's not aware of the danger and he's probably relaxed
> too much, i'd rule a Saving Throw with a -4 penalty.
>
Paralysis is physical, not mental. It's stops the body from moving, not
your neurons from firing. This means that a paralysed character can still
feel what is happening to them etc.
- --
"For a copper!" [The battle cry of Lynard the fire elemaster]
knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au | glennb@ichr.uwa.edu.au
Home page: http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/
finger -l for pgp public key
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 12:57:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Fiends (was: Portal to Sigil)
DM pontificated:
>
> They've 80%, but in that moment it was lowered cause he had cast a spell
> (Feeblemind with a -12 penalty!!!) at the wizard... and the wizard's ST
> succeeded!!
Does a creature with Anti-Magic needs to turn it off before it can
cast magic itself? I always thought its own AM doesn't affect its
own magic, unless it is an Anti-Magic Shell or something similar.
John Yu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 13:00:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Spells
DM pontificated:
>
> Well, i'm pretty sure i wouldn't allow a ST vs mental attacks (spells) to a
> paralyzed character (since his brain is paralyzed), but regarding a sleeping
> person... well, since he's not aware of the danger and he's probably relaxed
> too much, i'd rule a Saving Throw with a -4 penalty.
I thought when someone is paralyzed, their brain is still functioning.
Their body can't move, but they can still see and hear stuff. But
come to think of it, I don't remember reading anywhere this is the
case, I just always assume it is so. Same thing with hold person.
John Yu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 10:32:32 -0700
From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" <strawberry@jamm.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Vanya and Storm Soldiers
At 05:34 PM 8/29/97 +0200, you wrote:
>At 10.37 29/08/97 +0200, Oeystein Lund wrote:
>
>> Didn't the "Dawn of Emperors" boxed set have something on this ?
>
>Nope, nothing was mentioned aside for the fact that Thanatos is slowly
>manipulating Oesterhaus' son to make him his puppet.
I Beg to differ. I just recently read Dawn of the Emperors and I quite
clearly remember that in the detailed description of one of the key
Thyatian characters (The 'head' of the region that the SS are found in I
think) it was said that the 'real' man had died while adventuring many years
before and that the person who was believed to be him was actually Thanatos.
It was also made quite clear that he was doing it just for the entertainment
value. I'm at work, so I don't have the page numbers handy, but I'm postive
thats what it said.
Jenni
- --
Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html
- -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:46:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Vanya and Storm Soldiers
> > Remember that in Hattias Vanya is revered by that obnoxious racist
> > group
> > known as the Storm Soldiers. But as Mystaros pointed out once: "How
> > can a
> > racist group who hates and would rather enslave all women follow the
> > words
> > of a Female Immortal?"
>
I think this have brought up once before, but the reactions towards
female gods and female mortals are not necessary have to be
consistant. RW examples. In classical Greece, women are treated
mostly as 2nd class citizen, but Athena is the patron god of Athen.
Status of women are generally not very high in historical China,
but some of the most warshipped gods are female.
John Yu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 21:39:50 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Spells
At 00.22 30/08/97 +0800, you wrote:
>Paralysis is physical, not mental. It's stops the body from moving, not
>your neurons from firing. This means that a paralysed character can still
>feel what is happening to them etc.
>
True, this is stated also in the RC IIRC.
What about someone that has been turned to stone? Can he still feel what's
happening?
- --------------
Fabrizio Paoli
brizio@lunet.it
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
- --------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 21:44:09 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Fiends (was: Portal to Sigil)
At 12.57 29/08/97 -0400, Shin Chyang Yu wrote:
>DM pontificated:
>>
>> They've 80%, but in that moment it was lowered cause he had cast a spell
>> (Feeblemind with a -12 penalty!!!) at the wizard... and the wizard's ST
>> succeeded!!
>
>Does a creature with Anti-Magic needs to turn it off before it can
>cast magic itself? I always thought its own AM doesn't affect its
>own magic, unless it is an Anti-Magic Shell or something similar.
I think only a Beholder should close his big eye, thus turning off his AM
ray, if he wants to cast spells in front of him, otherwise I agree with you.
- --------------
Fabrizio Paoli
brizio@lunet.it
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
- --------------
------------------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:43:00 -0700
From: "Patrick" <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Vanya and Storm Soldiers
> I Beg to differ. I just recently read Dawn of the Emperors and I quite
> clearly remember that in the detailed description of one of the key
> Thyatian characters (The 'head' of the region that the SS are found in I
> think) it was said that the 'real' man had died while adventuring many
years
> before and that the person who was believed to be him was actually
Thanatos.
> It was also made quite clear that he was doing it just for the
entertainment
> value. I'm at work, so I don't have the page numbers handy, but I'm
postive
> thats what it said.
This is indeed true: I looked back through DotE again, and the leader of
Hattias and the Storm Soldiers is really Thanatos. Also, the church of
Vanya does not allow her clerics to join the SS, according to DotE. It is
debatable exactly how much a cleric can hide from his immortal, but IMO,
Vanya does not approve of the storm soldiers.
Patrick
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 18:49:31 -0700
From: "Patrick" <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ixion and Vanya in Narvaez
> Could be BUT remember: she is openly an enemy of Ixion only after 1,000
AC,
> that's to say after the Fellowship of the Star and the Ring of Fire are
> formed. In her background only Rathanos is listed as her enemy because of
> his attitude towards women. So i think that we should consider the two as
> allies in Narvaez until 1000 AC: it's from this date that Vanya begins
> plotting against Ixion using her role as Iquisitor as u brightly
suggested.
By 1000 AC, Vanya definitely is plotting aginst Ixion. However, My thought
was that Ixion could have remained ignorant of this until the Heldannic
Knights and Thyatis declared war on Alphatia in 1005 or 1006 (i don't have
WotI right here). That gives Vanya 5 to 6 years to set Ixion up for his
fall without his realizing it.
<<My old comments snipped>>
> A master explanation, my compliments. I wholeheartedly agree with you! :)
Well thank you:)
> Very good setting. Still you must tell me why they became so much
unpopular
> to require an entire stock of people to travel more than 3,000 miles away
> from their homeland. And why in 900 AC?
There were a number of factors that caused the migration of 900 AC.
Emperor Gabronius IV began a new expansionist policy at this time. There
must have been a massive population boom in the Empire preceding and during
this time to provide the people needed to colonize the Savage Coast,
Traladara, Norwold, and more of the Isle of Dawn, all between 900 and 913.
The Ispans (perhaps so named because they followed Ixion) were a small
group of Thyatians, mainly concentrated on the mainland, who were looked
down upon because of their beliefs of extreme reverence to Ixion alone and
that the poor should be equal to the wealthy. This obviously won them
enemies among the ruling class, who at different times either persecuted
them actively or just passively denied them rights. When Gabronius IV took
the throne, he gave them a choice: either stay here in Thyatis and face
continued persecution, or else get a lot of people together and go colonize
the Savage Coast as a Thyatian colony. This let the emperor solve the
problem of the Ispans, colonize the West, and deal with overpopulation all
at once. The Ispans would probably have jumped at the opportunity.
This is only one possibility. Plenty more exist.
> What if the Ispans were followers of Tarastia, Vanya and Valerias, and
then
<snip>
This interpretation is definitely workable as well. My only hesitation is
that there weren't any Oltecs in the area, but you could easily substitute
something else, or say that they picked it up in Slagovich.
Patrick
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 14:36:58 -0700
From: "Patrick" <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ixion and Vanya in Narvaez
I sent this message before my other post yesterday, but I haven't seen it
come through or seen any replies to it, so I'm sending it again. Sorry if
you get it twice:
> Could be BUT remember: she is openly an enemy of Ixion only after 1,000
AC,
> that's to say after the Fellowship of the Star and the Ring of Fire are
> formed. In her background only Rathanos is listed as her enemy because of
> his attitude towards women. So i think that we should consider the two as
> allies in Narvaez until 1000 AC: it's from this date that Vanya begins
> plotting against Ixion using her role as Iquisitor as u brightly
suggested.
By 1000 AC, Vanya definitely is plotting aginst Ixion. However, My thought
was that Ixion could have remained ignorant of this until the Heldannic
Knights and Thyatis declared war on Alphatia in 1005 or 1006 (i don't have
WotI right here). That gives Vanya 5 to 6 years to set Ixion up for his
fall without his realizing it.
<<My old comments snipped>>
> A master explanation, my compliments. I wholeheartedly agree with you! :)
Well thank you:)
> Very good setting. Still you must tell me why they became so much
unpopular
> to require an entire stock of people to travel more than 3,000 miles away
> from their homeland. And why in 900 AC?
There were a number of factors that caused the migration of 900 AC.
Emperor Gabronius IV began a new expansionist policy at this time. There
must have been a massive population boom in the Empire preceding and during
this time to provide the people needed to colonize the Savage Coast,
Traladara, Norwold, and more of the Isle of Dawn, all between 900 and 913.
The Ispans (perhaps so named because they followed Ixion) were a small
group of Thyatians, mainly concentrated on the mainland, who were looked
down upon because of their beliefs of extreme reverence to Ixion alone and
that the poor should be equal to the wealthy. This obviously won them
enemies among the ruling class, who at different times either persecuted
them actively or just passively denied them rights. When Gabronius IV took
the throne, he gave them a choice: either stay here in Thyatis and face
continued persecution, or else get a lot of people together and go colonize
the Savage Coast as a Thyatian colony. This let the emperor solve the
problem of the Ispans, colonize the West, and deal with overpopulation all
at once. The Ispans would probably have jumped at the opportunity.
This is only one possibility. Plenty more exist.
> What if the Ispans were followers of Tarastia, Vanya and Valerias, and
then
<snip>
This interpretation is definitely workable as well. My only hesitation is
that there weren't any Oltecs in the area, but you could easily substitute
something else, or say that they picked it up in Slagovich.
Patrick
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 18:42:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: StarHawk <starhawk@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] FREE CALLING CARD
Does anybody remember Leroy's address this is the 3rd spam we've gotten
and I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't something he should do about
it, though I'm not sure what he can do.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 17:57:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matthew Levy <mlevy@orion.oac.uci.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Vanya and Storm Soldiers
Hmmm. I kinda liked the moral ambiguity of Vanya being somewhere between
good and evil ... but TSR is not known for being able to handle moral
ambiguity. By the way, somebody commented earlier that it didn't make
sense for male chauvinists to worship a female deity ... but I think it
makes tons of sense. "Reverence" is a complex concept, and chauvinists
throughout history have traditionally revered a certain concept of
womanhood which they see themselves as protecting through their attempts
to stamp out all women who threaten it ... and the Nazis (RW models for
the storm soldiers) were fond of proud statues of large-breasted aryan
women, sometimes nude .... and other weirdness. i think sometimes that
hatred for and obsession with a given stereotype go hand in hand anyway
.... love and hate are flip sides of the same concept, and Vanya as a
diety has always fascinated me for this reason anyway. Although I also
kind of like the idea of a group fanatically serving a god they think to
be good, when all along they are serving only Death. this makes a lot of
sense to me too. is anybody else interested in psychoanalyzing the weird
religions of mystara, or is it just me?
peace,
m@2
On Fri, 29 Aug 1997, Patrick wrote:
> > I Beg to differ. I just recently read Dawn of the Emperors and I quite
>
> > clearly remember that in the detailed description of one of the key
> > Thyatian characters (The 'head' of the region that the SS are found in I
> > think) it was said that the 'real' man had died while adventuring many
> years
> > before and that the person who was believed to be him was actually
> Thanatos.
> > It was also made quite clear that he was doing it just for the
> entertainment
> > value. I'm at work, so I don't have the page numbers handy, but I'm
> postive
> > thats what it said.
>
> This is indeed true: I looked back through DotE again, and the leader of
> Hattias and the Storm Soldiers is really Thanatos. Also, the church of
> Vanya does not allow her clerics to join the SS, according to DotE. It is
> debatable exactly how much a cleric can hide from his immortal, but IMO,
> Vanya does not approve of the storm soldiers.
>
> Patrick
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 22:08:45 -0400
From: "John W. Mangrum" <iggy@capital.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Spells
Fabrizio Paoli wrote:
>
> True, this is stated also in the RC IIRC.
> What about someone that has been turned to stone? Can he still feel what's
> happening?
I'd bet that, being stone, they're completely oblivious to their
surroundings. Most likely, they aren't even aware of the passage of
time.
"What do you mean I've been a statue for 300 years? It just happened a
minute ago!"
J.W.Mangrum
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 20:48:52 +0100
From: "Leroy Van Camp III" <malacoda@lesbois.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] FREE CALLING CARD
StarHawk meandered fecklessly...
> Does anybody remember Leroy's address this is the 3rd spam we've gotten
> and I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't something he should do about
> it, though I'm not sure what he can do.
From an administrative post a day or two ago...
> Nothing sent to the list from subscribers gets screened. This would
be
> a gargantuan task. It is possible for people not subscribed to send
e-mail
> to the list. It is possible that this can be changed, but is not as easy
> as it sounds, and is somewhat undesirable from an administrative
standpoint.
> I assure you, I hate spam as much as anyone else. But considering
how
> little we recieve, I do not conisder it a significant problem. Every
list I am on
> recieves the occasional spam.
> When the list gets spammed I send e-mail to the originating site's
post
> master, letting them know what happened. Sometimes I get a response,
> sometimes I don't.
Really, at this point there is little I can do. If things start to get
bad,
I may have to make it so only subscribers can send e-mail. But,
as I said, this is not the best solution from an administrative standpoint.
At this point, this list tends to get the same level of spam as
several of the other lists I am on (Wraith-L, Mage-L, GURPSnet-L, et al).
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 22:51:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Spells
Fabrizio Paoli pontificated:
>
> True, this is stated also in the RC IIRC.
> What about someone that has been turned to stone? Can he still feel what's
> happening?
I would think that stoned creature is similar as one that have
been suspend in animation. Totally unaware the passage of time.
John Yu
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 23:54:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mystaros@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Vanya and Storm Soldiers
In a message dated 97-08-30 05:36:12 EDT, you write:
<< In classical Greece, women are treated
mostly as 2nd class citizen, but Athena is the patron god of Athen.
John Yu>>
As an interesting aside to the mention of Athena, it is often conjectured
that Athena was actually revered not as a female per se, but as a feminine
aspect of Zeus. Her origin, having sprung forth from the forehead of Zeus
(who had swallowed Metis, the Oceanid, that she would not give birth to a
*son* who would overthrow him)... Vanya, IMHO, was designed as a mix between
Athena and Ares, Goddess of Cunning and God of War...
Mystaros
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 00:08:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mystaros@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Vanya and Storm Soldiers
In a message dated 97-08-30 06:11:21 EDT, DM wrote:
<< Following your theory and borrowing something from Mystaros' old posts, i
would hypothesize that maybe (but only MAYBE) somebody was really working
behind the scenes in Heldann to hurt Vanya using her Knights, this one
fellow being probably Orcus.>>
For more details about this theory (and my own campaigns history of the
Hattians) check out my History of the Ancient Hattians, available in one of
B1Bards netbooks, IIRC...
<<I agree with his doubt here, and i agree on the fact
that the Storm Soldiers probably don't worship Vanya, but the God of War,
who i shall call the Conqueror.>>
IMC, he is known as Ares...
<<And this is IMO the point that caused Vanya's Knights to take up
their belongings in 950 AC and to go northwards to conquer Heldann. <snip>>>
This is very close to what happened in my own campaign...
Oddly enough, I recieved most of the replies to this post before I received
this one, so I will address some issues discussed elsewhere. Most notably,
the issue concerning the odd nature of *belief* and *practice* in religion.
Others have noted that in the RW, a faith can have a certain view of a
subject (such as women) while practicing a completely different way than that
view would otherwise suggest (the examples are legion). This, I argue, is not
at all something that would be common in a world where the Gods, such as they
are, take very real action against those who use their name in vain (see the
Second Exception to the First Rule... though it states "faithless cleric",
such could well be used to punish faithless followers; the majority of the
common folk would be below such treatment, but the powerful would certainly
earn the Immortals wrath). It is very difficult to take an Immortals name in
vain when you might be visited by a literal bolt from the blue...
That, combined with the misogynist and vile nature of the Storm Soldiers led
me to the creation of the "Immortal" Ares as an aspect of Orcus (who IMC is
much more of a thoughtful type than others might think... I leave the
barbaric, berserk rages for Alphaks, who is quite good at them)...
Mystaros
Mystaros
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 22:41:59 -0700
From: "Patrick" <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Vanya and Storm Soldiers
Mystaros wrote:
> are, take very real action against those who use their name in vain (see
the
> Second Exception to the First Rule... though it states "faithless
cleric",
> such could well be used to punish faithless followers; the majority of
the
> common folk would be below such treatment, but the powerful would
certainly
> earn the Immortals wrath). It is very difficult to take an Immortals name
in
> vain when you might be visited by a literal bolt from the blue...
I'm afraid I must disagree with you here. WotI went to great lengths to
point out that Immortals could not punish anyone directly except for his or
her clerics. If immortals were allowed to directly act against other
powerful people, even if they did claim to follow him or her, there would
be no point to the law of direct interference. If immortals were allowed
to act directly, many things in many TSR supplements would have been very
different. Also, if a cleric renounces his or her immortal, that immortal
is powerless to act (or else Chardastes would have punished Elwyn in B9).
Clerics (and perhaps paladins and avengers) have a special relationship
with their patrons that allows them, and only them, to receive the direct
punishment if they begin to stray.
Patrick
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 15:02:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mystaros@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Vanya and Storm Soldiers
In a message dated 97-08-31 11:34:15 EDT, you write:
<< I'm afraid I must disagree with you here. WotI went to great lengths to
point out that Immortals could not punish anyone directly except for his or
her clerics. If immortals were allowed to directly act against other
powerful people, even if they did claim to follow him or her, there would
be no point to the law of direct interference. If immortals were allowed
to act directly, many things in many TSR supplements would have been very
different.>>
True, but in the case of my interpretation, the action that the Immortal may
take (whether Cleric or otherwise) is allowed to affect only the "heretic"
directly. A perfect example of this was V(A)nya's curse on Thincol after the
Great War... against what is otherwise canonical information (Codex of the
Immortals, page 73) the curse that she laid on Thincol "... is not one which
mortal spellcasters will be able to dispel" (Immortals Fury, page 88). Note
that it is specifically stated that Vanya was in a Mortal Identity, yet she
apparently used Immortal level mato curse Thincol... and Thincol, obviously,
is no Cleric, of Vanya or otherwise. He falls into the realm of what I would
call "Powerful, Highly-Visible Figures Associated with a Specific Immortal
that are Punishable by That Immortal". She punished him within what is the
intent of the Second Exception, though not the word... the law forbidding
Direct Interference is, IMO, bendable on this aspect, especially in this
exception. Three is no way that an Immortal scanning Mystara for signs of
Immortal interference would not notice an Immortal level curse debilitating
the vitality of one of the most powerful mortals of the world! Action would
be taken unless such an action was allowable under Immortal Law...
<<Also, if a cleric renounces his or her immortal, that immortal
is powerless to act (or else Chardastes would have punished Elwyn in B9).
Clerics (and perhaps paladins and avengers) have a special relationship
with their patrons that allows them, and only them, to receive the direct
punishment if they begin to stray.
Patrick >>
IMO, Chardastes is not the type of Immortal to visit a "heretic" with a Bolt
from the Blue; it seems somewhat against his nature.
As another thread on this list noted, the Paladin (and Avenger, for that
matter) is not allowed to settle, as the settled warrior (noble, what have
you) works to represent his or her beliefs in other ways that are no less
important to the Immortal than the methods of the Paladin. Should that
person, who the Immortal has placed his or her trust in, go against the
Immortal, the least that the Immortal would do is let his or her clerics
know, and perhaps others know through omens, visions and portents and such
(which falls under the Third Exception). Simply these kinds of things would
let the SS know in no uncertain terms that Vanya was not pleased with their
actions (to assume that she in any way condones their activities is, well,
beyond me at any rate). Others would eventually know, through her contacts
through true clerics and others, that the SS were no longer numbered among
her followers, and that they did, in fact, follow the path of a different
Immortal. So, even if one does not interpret the Second Exception in the same
manner as I (which is altogether, of course, fine; this is simply all IMO,
and IMC), there is no logical reason that the SS of Hattias could continue to
be followers of Vanya or in fact represent themselves as such!
Mystaros
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 19:55:42 +0200
From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Vanya and Storm Soldiers
Hi!
>Vanya, IMHO, was designed as a mix between
>Athena and Ares, Goddess of Cunning and God of War...
1.) I don´t think that Athena was Goddess of Cunning, more of (classical)
wisdom. But I´m fairly sure, that Athena also was a Godess of War! So why do
you need Ares in the mix? Ares surely was no cunning god, but a brute.
2.) Does anybody of you uses the Greek Pantheon? How do you use them? I´m
trying to find Mystaran Immortals to match with the Greek Gods, but didn´t
find a perfect match, yet. Maybe Vanya for Athena? Obviously I don´t want to
use the "Greek Immortals" from the WotL, because IMO they have too less
profile. But Orcus or Alphaks for Ares? I would probably choose Alphaks,
because he is mentioned in the DotE, and so would better fit for teh SS.
(Obviously I like the idea of the SS following a War God (Ares)).
>That, combined with the misogynist and vile nature of the Storm Soldiers led
>me to the creation of the "Immortal" Ares as an aspect of Orcus (who IMC is
>much more of a thoughtful type than others might think... I leave the
>barbaric, berserk rages for Alphaks, who is quite good at them)...
Hmm, IMO, Ares was a brute and barbaric. So Alpkas is probaly a good match.
In the AD&D L&L is described quite similar to my opinion.
************************************************************
Peter Balazs
Wurlitzerg. 37/12
1160 Wien
0222/4816030
a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at
pbalazs@radon.mat.univie.ac.at
http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
************************************************************
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V2 #130
*****************************
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To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #131
Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
Sender: owner-mystara-digest@
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mystara-digest Tuesday, September 2 1997 Volume 02 : Number 131
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 17:06:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Vanya and Storm Soldiers
In a message dated 97-08-30 06:11:21 EDT, dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it (DM) writes:
<< They
later conquered Heldann and established themselves as the Heldannic Knights,
professing openly their faith in Vanya and the Patroness of Just and
Honorable Conquest. >>
Of course, any native Heldanner would dispute the claim of the Heldannic
Knights that their conquest of the Heldannic Territories was "Just and
Honorable".
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 05:02:16 -0700
From: "Patrick" <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Vanya and Storm Soldiers
> True, but in the case of my interpretation, the action that the Immortal
may
> take (whether Cleric or otherwise) is allowed to affect only the
"heretic"
> directly. A perfect example of this was V(A)nya's curse on Thincol
after...
I agree with you that this is a major stumbling block, but IMHO, Vanya (a)
cast a powerful spell not found in the Rules Cyclopedia as a 36th level
cleric, or (b) broke the rules. Such an action wouldn't necessarily be
obvious: immortals scanning the prime plane would certainly notice it, but
Vanya could pretend to be furious at the curse. She could be stamping
around up in Pandius, demanding that whoever cast this dreadful spell which
has stolen Thincol's will to fight and is slowly killing him to admit it.
No one would necessarily suspect her, if she's careful and crafty about it
(as fits her personality IMC). However, this certainly could be taken as
evidence that immortals are allowed to take direct action against
non-clerics, if you want this IYC.
> IMO, Chardastes is not the type of Immortal to visit a "heretic" with a
Bolt
> from the Blue; it seems somewhat against his nature.
I agree with you here, except that Elwyn is bringing back Chardastes'
bitterest rival, a being of pure cruelty. Chardastes would, if possible,
take some sort of action, IMO.
> As another thread on this list noted, the Paladin (and Avenger, for that
> matter) is not allowed to settle, as the settled warrior (noble, what
have
> you) works to represent his or her beliefs in other ways that are no less
> important to the Immortal than the methods of the Paladin. Should that
> person, who the Immortal has placed his or her trust in, go against the
> Immortal, the least that the Immortal would do is let his or her clerics
> know, and perhaps others know through omens, visions and portents and
such
> (which falls under the Third Exception). Simply these kinds of things
would
> let the SS know in no uncertain terms that Vanya was not pleased with
their
> actions (to assume that she in any way condones their activities is,
well,
> beyond me at any rate). Others would eventually know, through her
contacts
> through true clerics and others, that the SS were no longer numbered
among
> her followers, and that they did, in fact, follow the path of a different
> Immortal. So, even if one does not interpret the Second Exception in the
same
> manner as I (which is altogether, of course, fine; this is simply all
IMO,
> and IMC), there is no logical reason that the SS of Hattias could
continue to
> be followers of Vanya or in fact represent themselves as such!
IMC, Vanya expressed her dislike of the SS through her church in Thyatis,
and the future Heldannic Knights left when they could no longer stand
Hattias. But when the war came, Vanya stopped trying to fight the SS,
preferring that Thyatis be ready for battle with the Alphatians. She will
probably now go after them more, but they are really among the least of her
concerns. That DotE explicitly says that a cleric of Vanya must join the
SS secretly if he wants to join means that this must happen, and that the
SS must be followers of Vanya in name at least. I suppose it all depends
on exactly how much immortal intervention is desired by each individual DM.
Patrick
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 00:05:43 -0300 (EST)
From: Andre Martins <acrmarti@fma1.if.usp.br>
Subject: [Mystara] Vanya and the Storm Soldiers
I have seen all your discussions about the actual role played by Vanya in
the Storm Soldiers structure. A few years ago, I posted a theory of mine
about her being in fact an special kind of avatar to Thanatos. I will not
post all my discussions again, as I don't think that would be good
netiquette (unless everybody wants me to). However, I have been thinking
about creating my own mystaran homepage and I already have what I wrote
about it accessible. The URL is:
http://www.fma.if.usp.br/~acrmarti/ga/mystara/immortals/thanatovanya.txt
Please check it and send your comments to the list. I would really like to
hear your opinions, specially because we have had many new members since I
posted it.
Andre Martins
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 08:15:51 +0200 (EET DST)
From: Anias Pasi <a122286@students.cc.tut.fi>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Spells
Fabrizio and others discussing:
> >Paralysis is physical, not mental. It's stops the body from moving, not
> >your neurons from firing. This means that a paralysed character can still
> >feel what is happening to them etc.
> True, this is stated also in the RC IIRC.
> What about someone that has been turned to stone? Can he still feel what's
> happening?
Fellows, I think You are being too narrowminded here.
I admit, that the basic descriptions of spells give
only one way how the spells work, but I dont think
that is so. There should be variations in the spells,
if not for other reasons, then just to give some
colour to the game. I think it is even hinted so in
the Glantri cazzetteer somewhere.
Think about it: what color is the magic
missile? What does it look like? Well, it depends
on the caster. It can be red or blue or invincible.
It can look like arrows or like lighting or
doves or anything. There are of cource those
forms that look more common than others,
like the one teached in the Basic Missile-
cource of the great karameikan school of
magecraft. But then there are those forms
that are disaigned by mages at higher levels,
either for their joy, or for the sake of
studying the spell further. And still it is the
Magemissile spell, no matter wether is it cast
by a novice from school (red bolt), or by Mylertendal
(sp?) (beautiful little angels with pitcforks) or by
prince McGregor himself (black spheres that leave the
damaged areas feeling cold for hours).
Just like that the paralyzis spell can be either mental of
physical. It might be physical most often, but there
are variations. Like the ones used by the Glantrian
illusionists, that cause your haed spinn, so you can not
focus into moving. Or the one of the earth elementals, that
makes your limbs feel like lead, so you can not move, and
eeeveenn sppeeaakkk sslloowwweeeeeerrrrrr...
Also, most stoning spells propably shut you out of reality,
but there are those that leave you dreaming, or fealing,
or thinking. And then there is the question of the stonematerial...
Is it granite? Glass? Salt?
One can have a lot of fun by variating spells a bit,
so why should we decide anything too strictly?
Pasi
P.S. Of cource, the excamples were purely fictional,
and from my campaing only.
- --
X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X
X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X
X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 16:53:51 +0800
From: Glenn Butcher <knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Vanya and Storm Soldiers
On Thu, Aug 28, 1997 at 07:55:22PM +0200, Peter Balazs wrote:
>
>2.) Does anybody of you uses the Greek Pantheon? How do you use them? I´m
>trying to find Mystaran Immortals to match with the Greek Gods, but didn´t
>find a perfect match, yet. Maybe Vanya for Athena? Obviously I don´t want to
> use the "Greek Immortals" from the WotL, because IMO they have too less
> profile. But Orcus or Alphaks for Ares? I would probably choose Alphaks,
> because he is mentioned in the DotE, and so would better fit for teh SS.
> (Obviously I like the idea of the SS following a War God (Ares)).
>
I use the greek deities in my Mystara campaign. I use Alphaks for
Ares, Petra for Athena, Terra for Gaia, Diulanna for Artemis. I never
really decided who Zeus and Hera were.
- --
knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au | If you were plowing a field, what you
glennb@ichr.uwa.edu.au | rather use: two strong oxen or 1,024
http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/ | chickens? - Seymour Cray on parallel
finger -l for pgp public key | processing
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 12:44:50 +0200 (METDST)
From: "Oystein H. Lund" <kj160@hp825.lhg.hib.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Vanya and Storm Soldiers
On Fri, 29 Aug 1997, Patrick wrote:
> > I Beg to differ. I just recently read Dawn of the Emperors and I quite
> > clearly remember that in the detailed description of one of the key
> > Thyatian characters (The 'head' of the region that the SS are found in I
> > think) it was said that the 'real' man had died while adventuring many
> years
> > before and that the person who was believed to be him was actually
> Thanatos.
> > It was also made quite clear that he was doing it just for the
> entertainment
> > value. I'm at work, so I don't have the page numbers handy, but I'm
> postive
> > thats what it said.
>
> This is indeed true: I looked back through DotE again, and the leader of
> Hattias and the Storm Soldiers is really Thanatos. Also, the church of
> Vanya does not allow her clerics to join the SS, according to DotE. It is
> debatable exactly how much a cleric can hide from his immortal, but IMO,
> Vanya does not approve of the storm soldiers.
>
> Patrick
IMC, at least, Vanya 'allows' her clerics to get away with this, because
Thanatos would kill her - on her home plane - if she made any waves. This
is because Thanatos is in fact far more powerful than the WoTI stats make
him out to be, and the reason he hasn't taken leadership away from Hel
already is that he just can't be bothered. For him, it's much more
interesting to manipulate everyone into doing what he wants, than
being the boss and ordering them about...
But of course, it's just IMC that Thanatos is THAT ancient and powerful -
for he was formed by the Old Ones when the first life was, and even
Immortals and Gods will fall before him in the end. In the meantime, he
amuses himself by letting the young ones create life and civilizations,
and then take it all away from them.
IMC, his current plot is to convert the entire population of Mystara to
Undeads - and then killing off those undead when the Immortals decide that
this planet's had it :) Actually, Nyx thinks it's her plot, for the most
part - she just doesn't realize that ALL living things will be converted...
And Thanatos is doing this because he feels there's too danged many
immortals coming out of this place - it's going to make his job that much
harder if he doesn't do something soon...
_______________________________________________________________________
| Oeystein H. Lund ,kj160@lhg.hib.no |
|"I still consider Southern California the best evidence we have that |
| not only do aliens exist, but that they are here already. " |
|_____________________________________________________________________|
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 08:30:50 EDT
From: Neal Daskal <URND@MARISTC.MARIST.EDU>
Subject: Re[2]: [Mystara] Fiends (was: Portal to Sigil)
I went home and looked this up because DM and I got into the
rules-lawyering discussion. My public apologies to DM for
doubting his rule reading. In response to the question below
(as I had forgotten), Gold Box demons have the unique and
explicit disadvantage of having to drop AM to create spell
effects.
Now for the "howevers". Gold Box demons' characteristic advantages
are in physical combat. They also have numerous special
abilities that do not require the dropping of AM to exercise.
A Roarer has 80% AM and then uses its Immortal ST vs Magic (11).
So a Roarer choosing to create a spell effect
voluntarily increases its exposure to magic five-fold from 10%
to 50%. IMHO, this is not a good tactic IF the DM intends to make
the encounter challenging (I jumped in this one when DM mentioned
that Razog was rather easy). It is, however, an example of an
instance of "dumbing down" (slightly in this case) a formidable
monster so that the party has a better chance to survive. FWIW
IMC I played monsters with nasty reputations (dragons, beholders,
demons, high-level undead) tough and smart (if I allowed the party
to encounter them at all) in order to avoid the "justanotherdragon-
tobeatupon" phenomenon. The best example of this was that the party
NEVER defeated Beagle robots or cyborgs. They escaped DA3 The
City of the Gods by using Robert the Bald's (possible NPC-name
check here) teleport rings ONLY after the cleric tempted fate
by sticking around an extra round to Raise Dead a character so he
could use his ring instead of being lost. In WotI, the 'bots
wiped them out in the engine room. The last character deactivated
the self-destruct mechanism with his dying breath (he did state
that as his intention AND made the initiative roll against the 'bots).
Of course, Benekanner (spelling?) arrived shortly. The 'bots
fell in with their old master and he Raised the party.
>DM pontificated:
>>
>> They've 80%, but in that moment it was lowered cause he had cast a spell
>> (Feeblemind with a -12 penalty!!!) at the wizard... and the wizard's ST
>> succeeded!!
>
>Does a creature with Anti-Magic needs to turn it off before it can
>cast magic itself? I always thought its own AM doesn't affect its
>own magic, unless it is an Anti-Magic Shell or something similar.
>
###John Yu
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 13:53:27 -0500
From: brunciak <brunciak@erols.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Greek gods
Glenn Butcher wrote:
>I use the greek deities in my Mystara campaign. I use Alphaks for
>Ares, Petra for Athena, Terra for Gaia, Diulanna for Artemis. I never >really decided who Zeus and Hera were.
Finding a match for Zeus and Hera is very difficult, simply because they
are the king and queen of the Olympus gods and Mystaran Immortals simply
don't work that way. Well, first of all, they would have to be
Hierarchs and their attitudes would match the Greeks'. I would use
Ixion for the fact that 1) He's a Hierarch and 2) He has an attitude
like Zeus, that is, he's quick to anger/forgive, an enmobiment of
power...even though he would appear to many to be more suited as
Apollo. Hera couldn't be Valerias as she would be more of a match to
Aphrodite. The closest to Hera would have to be Terra, though Terra
would is Mother Earth and closer to Artemis. So Ixion and Terra would
be the top two candidates.
RMB
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 14:39:24 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Spells
At 12:22 AM 8/30/97 +0800, Glenn Butcher wrote:
>Paralysis is physical, not mental. It's stops the body from moving, not
>your neurons from firing. This means that a paralysed character can still
>feel what is happening to them etc.
Really? I've always seen Paralisys as been handled as a MENTAL spell, thus i
supposed that it blocked your neurons (after all, brain affects movement). I
cannot remember where i read it, but sure i did.
DM
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:07:19 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Mystara] Fiends (was: Portal to Sigil)
At 08:30 AM 9/1/97 EDT, Neal wrote:
>I went home and looked this up because DM and I got into the
>rules-lawyering discussion. My public apologies to DM for
>doubting his rule reading. In response to the question below
>(as I had forgotten), Gold Box demons have the unique and
>explicit disadvantage of having to drop AM to create spell
>effects.
No apologies ever needed, Neal. :)
However, are you sure that ONLY demons must lower their AM to create magical
effects? I thought it was a common procedure for every person using an Anti
Magic (be it Aura or Field). Where did u read the exception for the Immortals?
>Now for the "howevers". Gold Box demons' characteristic advantages
>are in physical combat. They also have numerous special
>abilities that do not require the dropping of AM to exercise.
I know, but in that case i preferred to risk. The demon had really been
angered by the group and he wanted to reduce the wizard to his mad
servant... he was unlucky, that's all... But as i've said, he had taken
countermeasures to avoid destruction, and so he now roams Mystara unable to
reenter his own plane and with a nasty side effect. Having lost his
manifestation form, he must use other creatures' bodies as vessel for his
lifeforce, and the result is something similar to Stephen King's
"Desperation" demon (TAK)!
Also, i don't really want to kill off all my PCs, otherwise my campaign will
be ruined. I kill some of them sometimes, but never refuse to give 'em a way
of being resurrected or reincarnated..
DM
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:24:19 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Rule questions
OK, since we started talking about spells:
1) how do you handle the Lightning Bolt? I mean, if it strikes a target,
then rebounds on the wall, does he strike again the same target doing double
damage?
2) when a PC activates a magic item, do you rule it counts as an "attack" or
as an action, meaning he cannot do other things in the same round?
Thanx
DM
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:16:11 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ixion and Vanya in Narvaez
At 06:49 PM 8/28/97 -0700, Patrick wrote:
>By 1000 AC, Vanya definitely is plotting aginst Ixion.
You mean from 1000 AC on: there's nothing indicating she's plotting against
him before the Council of 1000 had been held
>However, My thought
>was that Ixion could have remained ignorant of this until the Heldannic
>Knights and Thyatis declared war on Alphatia in 1005 or 1006 (i don't have
>WotI right here). That gives Vanya 5 to 6 years to set Ixion up for his
>fall without his realizing it.
Seems reasonable
<snipped the explanation>
I think i'll put your setting in my homepage, if you haven't got anything
against it... :)
DM
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 10:25:30 EDT
From: Neal Daskal <URND@MARISTC.MARIST.EDU>
Subject: Re[4]: [Mystara] Fiends (was: Portal to Sigil)
>At 08:30 AM 9/1/97 EDT, Neal wrote:
>>I went home and looked this up because DM and I got into the
>>rules-lawyering discussion. My public apologies to DM for
>>doubting his rule reading. In response to the question below
>>(as I had forgotten), Gold Box demons have the unique and
>>explicit disadvantage of having to drop AM to create spell
>>effects.
>
>No apologies ever needed, Neal. :)
>However, are you sure that ONLY demons must lower their AM to create magical
>effects? I thought it was a common procedure for every person using an Anti
>Magic (be it Aura or Field). Where did u read the exception for the Immortals?
What I was referring to is the paragraph in the monster description
for demons in the Gold Box DM's book stating specifically that they
must drop AM to create spell effects. This is the rule I had
forgotten. It is unique in that it is part of the monster description.
Having found it, I did not continue research on more general cases of
AM restrictions. You may be right about the general case as well
and I wish to avoid inserting my foot in my mouth again :). In any
case my interest in the discussion was in keeping players respectful
of certain classes of monsters to prevent them from becoming jaded.
I am satisfied that that interest has been addressed.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 16:40:43 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Rule questions
On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, DM wrote:
> OK, since we started talking about spells:
> 1) how do you handle the Lightning Bolt? I mean, if it strikes a target,
> then rebounds on the wall, does he strike again the same target doing double
> damage?
yes. It depends on the angle ofcourse, but if it is right, he sustains
damage as if struck by another bolt.
> 2) when a PC activates a magic item, do you rule it counts as an "attack" or
> as an action, meaning he cannot do other things in the same round?
using a magical item takes a full round.
short, but concise.
see ya
Håvard
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 11:29:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Greek gods
I agree with Ixion could be Zeus, but i think Terra is better
as Diameter. I can't think of a good Hera equivlent off-hand.
But, why do people want to draw the Greek equivlent in the
first place. The game designers spend the time to give us a
new pantheon of gods, why should we force them back into the
regular mold?
John yu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 11:25:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Spells
Anias Pasi pontificated:
>
> Fellows, I think You are being too narrowminded here.
> I admit, that the basic descriptions of spells give
> only one way how the spells work, but I dont think
> that is so. There should be variations in the spells,
> if not for other reasons, then just to give some
> colour to the game. I think it is even hinted so in
> the Glantri cazzetteer somewhere.
I agree, and the article you thinking of appeared in
a issue of Dragon, I believe. However, I think
standard spell should generally have pretty much
same effect, even though they might be different in
apprence. Using magic missle as example, different
casters might customize the standard spell into
different color bolts, or even fancy it up to a
small flying skull, etc, but it should still be
a visible missle doing magical energy damage. If
you change it to invisible, or other types of damage
such as acid, fire, ice, etc, i think the spell is
different enough that it should be consider as a
different spell. Now getting back to paralysis,
I think we should have a standard game defination
of paralysis, so when we talk among each other, we
would not be confused with its effect.
John Yu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 11:33:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Rule questions
>
> OK, since we started talking about spells:
> 1) how do you handle the Lightning Bolt? I mean, if it strikes a target,
> then rebounds on the wall, does he strike again the same target doing double
> damage?
Yes. One of my wizard pc want to commit suicide once, he cast a
LB in a small 5' corridore and get zipped by it 12 times.
> 2) when a PC activates a magic item, do you rule it counts as an "attack" or
> as an action, meaning he cannot do other things in the same round?
An action generally. But might depend on the item.
John Yu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 13:21:57 -0230 (NDT)
From: Mark McDonald <mmcdonld@kelvin.physics.mun.ca>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Spells
On Mon, 1 Sep 1997, Anias Pasi wrote:
> Fellows, I think You are being too narrowminded here.
> I admit, that the basic descriptions of spells give
> only one way how the spells work, but I dont think
> that is so. There should be variations in the spells,
> if not for other reasons, then just to give some
> colour to the game. I think it is even hinted so in
> the Glantri cazzetteer somewhere.
Well said. I've always thought that having a little variation in the
game so long as it doesn't affect game play, particularly with the
appearance of magical effects, lends a whole new feel to things. With
magic it also adds to the fact that your dealing with, well, magic. It's
supposed to be a little spontaneous, unpredictable, enchanting. Wouldn't
an evil wizard have a different looking 'Wall of Stone' than a good
wizard? Why not?
Mark McDonald
mmcdonld@kelvin.physics.mun.ca
MUN ext. 8844
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 11:51:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: StarHawk <starhawk@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Rule questions
On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, DM wrote:
> OK, since we started talking about spells:
> 1) how do you handle the Lightning Bolt? I mean, if it strikes a target,
> then rebounds on the wall, does he strike again the same target doing double
> damage?
I don't remember if this is different from AD&D to D&D or not, but I
believe the rule is that the lightning bolt extends to its full length, if
it hits a solid object (non-living) it rebounds directly along the path
just travelled. According to physics if lightning happened to bounce of
an object (which is possible) it would likely travel along that path it
just followed since the air is ionized and hence easier to move through.
Though this is magic and I have known DMs who have lightning bolts bounce
like lasers (angle of incidence equals angle of reflection).
Incidentally any ideas what would happen if a wall were somehow living, or
if a lightning bolt hit a stone creature, say a living statue or stone
golem. Does it bounce or go through?
> 2) when a PC activates a magic item, do you rule it counts as an "attack" or
> as an action, meaning he cannot do other things in the same round?
IMC using an item takes the entire round, just as casting a spell, moving,
drinking a potion, etc. You can only get multiple attacks by just
attacking, or by moving half your movement rate and then taking only half
the normal attacks.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 16:01:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Subject: [Mystara] Re: Nucleaus of Spheres destroyed???
On Tue, 2 Sep 1997 ALLREDV@aol.com wrote:
> I was reading thourgh the timeline you wrote and it says that the NoS
>was destroyed during the Alphatians attack on Glantri. Is that just your
>campaign or is it from a source because if it was destroyed wouldn't magic be
>gone according to the Glantri box set.
The line about the Nucleus being destroyed is from the book "PC3: Night
Howlers", page 27. I would take it with a grain of salt, since that
product was set about 1010 AC, while the Glantri boxed set, which states
that the Nucleus is functioning fine, is set in 1012 AC or so.
I'm forwarding your question to the Mystara Mailing List, since I don't
consider myself fully qualified to answer "Is the Nucleus the source of
magic on Mystara?". :) (My own take would be "It's not the source of
magic, it just sucks it away... and it might not be sucking magic anymore,
either.".)
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 15:51:37 -0500
From: "Charles E. Dickey, IV" <dickece@mail.auburn.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Nucleaus of Spheres destroyed???
Daniel Boese wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Sep 1997 ALLREDV@aol.com wrote:
>
> > I was reading thourgh the timeline you wrote and it says that
> the NoS
> >was destroyed during the Alphatians attack on Glantri. Is that just
> your
> >campaign or is it from a source because if it was destroyed wouldn't
> magic be
> >gone according to the Glantri box set.
>
> The line about the Nucleus being destroyed is from the book "PC3:
> Night
> Howlers", page 27. I would take it with a grain of salt, since that
> product was set about 1010 AC, while the Glantri boxed set, which
> states
> that the Nucleus is functioning fine, is set in 1012 AC or so.
> I'm forwarding your question to the Mystara Mailing List, since I
> don't
> consider myself fully qualified to answer "Is the Nucleus the source
> of
> magic on Mystara?". :) (My own take would be "It's not the source of
> magic, it just sucks it away... and it might not be sucking magic
> anymore,
> either.".)
>
> --
> Daniel Boese
> dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
Not to add too much to this topic but I too have wondered for a while
about the status of the Nucleus of the Spheres considering all that
happen in the WotI box set. How does it all work now? What has
changed??
Chad Dickey
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 13:57:18 PDT
From: "Jennifer Favia" <valerya@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Mystara] A List Survey
Hi there from Jennifer (valerya@hotmail.com)!
I've been a member of the Mystara Mailing List for about two months now,
and I've often wondered just who's out there. The List page seems either
out of date, or maybe a few people just aren't participating in stuff as
much as just "browsing"; so I came up with the idea of a survey, or
"census" of all you List members. That way, I'll know who's interested
in me contacting them (to work on projects,etc).
So If you'll just take a minute to send me a blurb stating:
Your name, E-mail, where you're from, and if you're interested in
working on anything in particular.
Of course, if you think this is the worst idea in history, you can tell
me that, too--just don't call me too many names:)
Thanks,
Jennifer
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 22:57:39 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Rule questions
At 16.40 02/09/97 +0200, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote:
>On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, DM wrote:
>
>> OK, since we started talking about spells:
>> 1) how do you handle the Lightning Bolt? I mean, if it strikes a target,
>> then rebounds on the wall, does he strike again the same target doing
double
>> damage?
>
>yes. It depends on the angle ofcourse, but if it is right, he sustains
>damage as if struck by another bolt.
According to the RC the lighting bolt bounces back to the caster. It
doesn't matter at which angle it hits the wall.
Obviously this is not realistic, but is certainly an easy way to handle the
rebound.
- --------------
Fabrizio Paoli
brizio@lunet.it
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
- --------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 17:12:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mystaros@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Greek gods
A while back I posted my Traldar Pantheon, which was my own version of the
"Greek" Pantheon in Mystara... if anyone is interested I will repost it, or
perhaps it is somewhere in one of the netbooks, I don't recall...
Mystaros
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 23:28:37 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: [Mystara] "Jennifer Favia" <valerya@hotmail.com>
At 13.57 02/09/97 PDT, you wrote:
>Your name, E-mail, where you're from, and if you're interested in
>working on anything in particular.
>
Name: Fabrizio Paoli
E-mail: brizio@lunet.it or rafiel@geocities.com
Country: Italy
Interests: Shadow Elves, Gnomes
I'm currently working on Shadow Elves stuff (and more) for the next
Mystaran Net-Almanac.
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
Bye.
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com
DM in City Of The Stars - PC in the Forgotten Realms
Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 23:11:50 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: [Mystara] Homepage Up... kinda..
Well, folks, I've finally got a homepage of my own up, though there's not
much to see there at the moment.
Got a link to the list homepage and one to Shawn Stanley's homepage (hope
Shawn and Leroy don't mind!). As I start to figure out how to do HTML, I
hope to have more up there shortly.
Oh... if anyone wants to stop by, the URL is
Http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill
See you all around! :)
Andrew
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 17:42:29 -0400
From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" <strawberry@jamm.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
At 01:57 PM 9/2/97 PDT, you wrote:
>Hi there from Jennifer (valerya@hotmail.com)!
Hiya!
>I've been a member of the Mystara Mailing List for about two months now,
>and I've often wondered just who's out there. The List page seems either
>out of date, or maybe a few people just aren't participating in stuff as
>much as just "browsing"; so I came up with the idea of a survey, or
>"census" of all you List members. That way, I'll know who's interested
>in me contacting them (to work on projects,etc).
It's been done before, but I would say it's about time we did it again.
:-) I might also add that it is so /NICE/ to see another female on the
list!!!!! Not too long ago we had a thread on that very topic an I was
*snf* the only one. The think is that with nick names its often hard to
tell whether someone is male or female, and the one person I thought MIGHT
be, wasn't.
>So If you'll just take a minute to send me a blurb stating:
>
>Your name, E-mail, where you're from, and if you're interested in
>working on anything in particular.
Name: Jenni A. M. Merrifield (aka: strawberryJAMM)
Email: strawberry@jamm.com
From: Burnaby, BC, Canada (which is just East of Vancouver, BC)
Interests: Lots 'o stuff!
I'm currently involved with the MOrient Project, working on the
development of "Oriental Dragons". I'm also helping Leroy (our
estemed mail-leader) by (slowly) setting up the official Archive
web site.
Other topics you didn't ask for but that I thought might interest you:
Age: 29 (forever...) no, seriously, I /am/ 29, until next march.
Profession: Computer Engineer doing User Interface Design & Programming
Web Site: http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html
Marital Status: Happily Married for just over 2 years
Started playing RPGs: around age 9
First played [A]D&D: ditto
>Of course, if you think this is the worst idea in history, you can tell
>me that, too--just don't call me too many names:)
Oh I hope no one calls you names! And if you get a decent sized list you
should be sure to share it with Leroy. :-)
Jenni A. M. Merrifield
- -=> strawberryJAMM <=-
- --
Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html
- -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:58:49 +0200
From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Rule questions
Hi!
>1) how do you handle the Lightning Bolt? I mean, if it strikes a target,
>then rebounds on the wall, does he strike again the same target doing double
>damage?
No, but the PC has do roll another ST, and if he failed once, he takes full
damage.
>2) when a PC activates a magic item, do you rule it counts as an "attack" or
>as an action, meaning he cannot do other things in the same round?
Depends mostly on the item, but I usely count it as action for one round, he
could only walk slowly or talk.
************************************************************
Peter Balazs
Wurlitzerg. 37/12
1160 Wien
0222/4816030
a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at
pbalazs@radon.mat.univie.ac.at
http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:59:07 +0200
From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Greek gods
Hi!
>The game designers spend the time to give us a
>new pantheon of gods, why should we force them back into the
>regular mold?
You are absolutly right, but my problem is that I started to play AD&D (and
D&D) 10 years ago, and about 7 years ago, I found that the Known World could
be a good campaign world, and only for about 5 years my campaigns are really
rooted in Mystara. So I have the problem of campaign consistency, some of my
players are clerics of Greek gods, so I need them in the Mystaran Pantheon.
(Some of them are followers of Norse Gods, but that´s no problem!)
************************************************************
Peter Balazs
Wurlitzerg. 37/12
1160 Wien
0222/4816030
a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at
pbalazs@radon.mat.univie.ac.at
http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 23:25:19 -0400
From: "John W. Mangrum" <iggy@capital.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
I know you asked for private e-mail, but other people's responses have
been interesting, so here goes:
John W. Mangrum
iggy@capital.net
I'm from Philadelphia, PA; but now live in Albany, NY, which (if there
is any justice in this world) will not be my permanent address.
I really discovered Mystara only as it changed over to AD&D, which is to
say right before it was dropped. I'm a fan of Savage Coast in
particular, especially Herath, but I confess I've never come up with any
really good ideas for any of the above. (My mind's caught in a
Ravenloft groove right now.)
J.W.Mangrum
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 22:19:25 +0100
From: "Leroy Van Camp III" <malacoda@lesbois.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
Jennifer Favia
> To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
> Hi there from Jennifer (valerya@hotmail.com)!
Heya
> I've been a member of the Mystara Mailing List for about two months now,
> and I've often wondered just who's out there. The List page seems either
> out of date, or maybe a few people just aren't participating in stuff as
> much as just "browsing";
The member registry is a bit out of date, but your second theory is
actually quite accurate. Last time I called for new entries I recieved
only four (which, as I mentioned in a previous post, I recently lost when
I switched to my new computer).
Here soon I will make another call for entries, and will hopefully get
a lot fo participation.
> so I came up with the idea of a survey, or
> "census" of all you List members. That way, I'll know who's interested
> in me contacting them (to work on projects,etc).
> So If you'll just take a minute to send me a blurb stating:
> Your name, E-mail, where you're from, and if you're interested in
> working on anything in particular.
> Of course, if you think this is the worst idea in history, you can
tell
> me that, too--just don't call me too many names:)
Nothing wrong with the people getting to know one another, which is
why I encourage people to answer here on the list...
Name: Leroy Van Camp III
Location: Boise, Idaho (anyone making potato jokes gets booted. :)
Working On: Right now I am starting up a non-Mystara game (Mage:
the Ascension), but am fiddling with the basics for my own version of
Mystaraspace, bringing Mystara fully into the Spelljammer setting. If
I ever get it done, it will probably go on my web page.
Leroy Van Camp III
malacoda@lesbois.com
owner-mystara-l@io.com
"You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle."
MST3K
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V2 #131
*****************************
From: owner-mystara-digest@ (mystara-digest)
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #132
Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
Sender: owner-mystara-digest@
Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@
Precedence: bulk
mystara-digest Thursday, September 4 1997 Volume 02 : Number 132
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 00:48:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: StarHawk <starhawk@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] "Jennifer Favia" <valerya@hotmail.com>
On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, Fabrizio Paoli wrote:
> At 13.57 02/09/97 PDT, you wrote:
>
> >Your name, E-mail, where you're from, and if you're interested in
> >working on anything in particular.
> >
Name: Bruce Pierpont
E-mail: starhawk@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu
Country: New Jersey, USA
Working On: Still making specialty priests
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 13:36:38 +0800
From: Glenn Butcher <knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Greek gods
On Fri, Aug 29, 1997 at 11:58:47AM +0200, Peter Balazs wrote:
> Hi!
>
> >The game designers spend the time to give us a
> >new pantheon of gods, why should we force them back into the
> >regular mold?
>
> You are absolutly right, but my problem is that I started to play AD&D (and
> D&D) 10 years ago, and about 7 years ago, I found that the Known World could
> be a good campaign world, and only for about 5 years my campaigns are really
> rooted in Mystara. So I have the problem of campaign consistency, some of my
> players are clerics of Greek gods, so I need them in the Mystaran Pantheon.
> (Some of them are followers of Norse Gods, but that´s no problem!)
>
Thats exactly why I have greek deities IMC too. When I first started
DM'ing 7 years ago, I of course started in the world I was most familiar with.
My one and only player at the time wanted to be a cleric of Athena so...
I made those deities more Mystara-like by making them Mystara deities
known under different names.
(Strangely that character is still alive and played semi-regularly.
That player is now my fiancee).
- --
knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au | "You're not our only customer you
glennb@ichr.uwa.edu.au | know"
http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/ | "But we're one of the few with tactical
finger -l for pgp public key | nuclear weapons"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 14:03:37 +0800
From: Glenn Butcher <knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Spells
On Tue, Sep 02, 1997 at 02:39:04PM +0200, DM wrote:
> At 12:22 AM 8/30/97 +0800, Glenn Butcher wrote:
> >Paralysis is physical, not mental. It's stops the body from moving, not
> >your neurons from firing. This means that a paralysed character can still
> >feel what is happening to them etc.
>
> Really? I've always seen Paralisys as been handled as a MENTAL spell, thus i
> supposed that it blocked your neurons (after all, brain affects movement). I
> cannot remember where i read it, but sure i did.
>
In AD&D hold person is an enchantment/charm spell, thus bonuses to saves
from wisdom apply. However, the person can still think. Thus I rule that the
spell affects the physical body rather than the mind. If you like, it
affects the neurons that transmit the information from the mind to the body,
but leaves the sensory ones intact.
Glenn
- --
"Women. The best thing since the Nova spell" [Lynard the fire elemaster]
knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au | glennb@ichr.uwa.edu.au
Home page: http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/
finger -l for pgp public key
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 10:00:48 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, Jennifer Favia wrote:
> Hi there from Jennifer (valerya@hotmail.com)!
Hi Jennifer.
Name: Haavard Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no
From: Trondheim, Norway
Interests: Karameikos, Thyatis, Planes, Immortals, anything really
StrawberryJamm added some more info, so I'll follow her tradition.
Age: 20
Profession: Student
Website: www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
Marital status: Unmarried
Started playing RPGs: I was about 11 i think
First played D&D: ditto
Haavard.
- ---
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 10:14:23 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Nucleaus of Spheres destroyed???
On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, Daniel Boese wrote:
> The line about the Nucleus being destroyed is from the book "PC3: Night
> Howlers", page 27. I would take it with a grain of salt, since that
> product was set about 1010 AC, while the Glantri boxed set, which states
> that the Nucleus is functioning fine, is set in 1012 AC or so.
> I'm forwarding your question to the Mystara Mailing List, since I don't
> consider myself fully qualified to answer "Is the Nucleus the source of
> magic on Mystara?". :) (My own take would be "It's not the source of
> magic, it just sucks it away... and it might not be sucking magic anymore,
> either.".)
Chad Dickey also asked about this in another posting. Here are my thoughts
on the matter:
the Nucleus is not the source of magic on Mystara. Rather it is like a
parasite, draining magical energy from tjis world. An earlier posting by
Bruce Heard stated that the draining applies only to Mystara and not other
worlds in Prime Material.
The thing about magic being lost if the Nots is destryed comes from the
draining table. It states that if all magic is drained from Mystara, Nots
is destroyed, not the other way around.
However after Woti (ending in 1010) the NotS is has changed. Now it no
longer drains Energy but Entropy. This led me to a series of speculations
on what happens when Entropy is removed from the world, but IRC Bruce's
theory is that Entropy cannot truly be destroyed since it is destruction.
Thus, even if the froces of entropy are given a hard blow after the
change, they will gradually become immune to the draining effect. I
addition, the Nots now produces entropic immortals rather than energy ones
(Like Rad)
Bruce posted something about the immortals creating new Nots'es, one for
each Sphere, but this didn't get much response, unfortunately, though I
found it quite interesting.
well. nuff said.
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 97 09:05:05 UT
From: "Alan Jones" <AlanDerekJones@classic.msn.com>
Subject: RE: [Mystara] A List Survey
Name: Alan Jones (aka Trimus D'Alberon)
e-mail: AlanDerekJones@msn.com
website: http:\\www.geocities.com\Area51\8306\index.html
Location: Greenford - a suburb west of London and yes it is green!
Interests: Hollow World, Thyatis and the undead.
Age: 32
Profession: Technical Consultant for a large Pan Global IT Consultancy
company
Marital status: Married (V. Happily for 1 year next week). Sadly she does not
play D&D.
Started RPGs: I found an old copy of the 1st edition Dungeon Masters Guide in
a charity shop when
I was about 15 and used this to write my first few computer games based on
the D&D world
but had no one to actually play with. Started playing D&D proper when the
Rules Cyclopedia and the boxed sets came out. Just for something to do
originally!
Campaigns: I DM a campaign which is currently half way through the WotI, and
play in several others both D&D Known World and others set in Greyhawk.
Hope this is useful.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 13:44:50 +0200
From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
Hi!
>> Hi there from Jennifer (valerya@hotmail.com)!
I already answered Jennifer privatly, but as it seems that all of you do it
on the lit, and I find it quite interesting, I´ll do it, too.
Name: Peter Balazs
Email: a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at, pbalazs@radon.mat.univie.ca.at
From: Vienna, Austria(, Europe)
Interests: Shadow-Elves, Immortals, Thyatis & Hinterlands, Fairies, the
Vortex(IMC the Otherworld)
Age: 26
Profession: Student(still!), Math & Physics
Website: radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
Marital status: engaged
Started playing RPGs: first time: ~13, seriously: at the age of 17.
First played D&D: 17.
************************************************************
Peter Balazs
Wurlitzerg. 37/12
1160 Wien
0222/4816030
a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at
pbalazs@radon.mat.univie.ac.at
http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 03:39:37 PDT
From: "Herve Musseau" <herve@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
> Hi there from Jennifer (valerya@hotmail.com)!
Hi Jennifer.
Responses to your survey : (I think I never went into Leroy's list
anyway, though I did send him data..)
Name: Herve Musseau (there's an acute accent on Herve's last e, FYI)
Email: herve@hotmail.com, also hmusseau@compuserve.com
From: Paris, France
Interests: Anything about Mystara. Currently participating in the 1015
almanac : I'm in charge of the NACE area, and also participate in the SE
and HW discussion groups; I also write some stuff about the SC and some
HW- or Alphatia-related stuff.
Regarding the info added by StrawberryJamm :
Age: 24
Profession: Computer engineer doing WWW (Java) programming; look at
www.sncf.fr to see the result of my job (BTW, in the Java version of the
software there's a hidden choice for you Mystarans ;)
Website: none currently, was www.esiee.fr/~musseauh before it was closed
this summer; I'll set it up again somewhere soon
Marital status: Single
Started playing RPGs: About 12-14 years ago
First played D&D: About 10-12 years ago
__________________________________________________________
Herve Musseau
Primary Email: herve@hotmail.com
Also: hmusseau@compuserve.com
Homepage: http://www.esiee.fr/~musseauh (not anymore it seems)
I'm a QSQWBEEEGGNFR Mystaran
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 18:45:03 +0800
From: Glenn Butcher <knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
>
> >> Hi there from Jennifer (valerya@hotmail.com)!
>
>
Me Too!
Name: Glenn Butcher
Email: knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au, glennb@ichr.uwa.edu.au
From: Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Interests: Shadow-Elves, Immortals, The Hinterlands, Gnomes
Working on: Immortality rules, Glaive
Age: 23
Profession: Programmer, Support Droid, Student, Network consultant (yes, all of these at the same time).
Website: http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/
Marital status: engaged (to a serious roleplayer!)
Started playing RPGs: 12-13?
First played D&D: 12
- --
"Ka BOOM!" [The expected last battle cry of Lynard the elemaster]
knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au | glennb@ichr.uwa.edu.au
Home page: http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/
finger -l for pgp public key
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 08:37:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Esherdon@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Nucleaus of Spheres destroyed???
Did not the boxed set Woti say that the nuclesus would now drain energy from
the plane of entropy? What effect will this have on the world.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 15:35:54 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Aleksei Andrievski <k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, Jennifer Favia wrote:
> Hi there from Jennifer (valerya@hotmail.com)!
>
Hello!
> Your name, E-mail, where you're from, and if you're interested in
> working on anything in particular.
>
Name: Aleksei Andrievski
E-mail: k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi
I'm from Russia, but I live in Finland
I'm interested in Glantri and anything about magic/wizards.
Age: 20
First started playing RPGs and D&D: age 14
***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord
** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but
** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us."
** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages,
** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers."
** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread."
*****************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 09:44:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ray Brooks <rabrooks@bg1.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
Hi Jennifer!
I love the idea of a survey. I've been on the list for 3 or 4
months now and I think its great. I do tend to be more of a watcher, as
you mentioned, but I have had alot of campaign ideas inspired by
discussions on the list.
Since everyone else seems to be posting their survey responses to
the list, I might as well also. Here's the scene.
Name: Ray Brooks
email: rabrooks@bg1.uwaterloo.ca
I currently work as a copyright analyst for the Courseware
Printing program at the University of Waterloo in Waterloo, Ontario,
Canada. I've been studying English lit and philosophy for the last 5
years and have put my work on my Master's degree in phil on hold for the
time being (i.e. I'm sick of being a poverty stricken student). I just
turned 25 a month ago today and I've been playing D&D since I was about 9
or 10. I'm a bit of an OD&D purist. I was mighty ticked off when Mystara
was shifted over to AD&D. Still, AD&D material is better than no material
at all....
My interests as far as the list is concerned? I would love to be
involved in the MOrient project. I have been trying to put together a
martial arts system for OD&D that would make the mystic a bit more than
just another killing machine with no armor. Anyway, I hope someone will
respond to this. I know Patrick posted an invite to the MOrient project a
while ago to which I responded, but I haven't heard anything back. No big
deal, I've been pretty busy lately anyway. Now that things are settling a
bit though, I'm very interested in this particular project. I hope to
hear back from someone about this when they get a chance.
Thanks bunches!
ray
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 16:31:47 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Soul Crystals
As you may know Shadow Elves shamans cannot bring their soul crystals to
teh surface because the crystals crumble to dust just a few seconds after
they're exposed to the sun.
Even if they're kept in the dark they crumble after 1d4 hours because of
the radiation of the sun.
What if they're kept in a bag of holding?
Things put in a such a bag aren't actually there, so maybe they aren't
affected by the radiation? What do you think?
Obviously the shaman would still be unable to cast his spell above ground,
but this can be a way to tranfer a soul crystal from Aengmor caves to (for
example) Esterhold caves and cast shamanic spell over there.
- --------------
Fabrizio Paoli
brizio@lunet.it
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
- --------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 10:29:06 -0400
From: Craig & Stephanie Miller <sarmanda@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
Hi Jennifer.
Responses to your survey :
Name: Stephanie Miller AKA Lady Sarmanda
Email: sarmanda@geocities.com
From: Maryland USA
Interests: Any AD&D. Working on my Web Sites.
Age: 26
Profession: Curretly Stay at home mom of 2 daughters. Working on
starting my own home based business next spring.
Website: Lady Sarmanda's Castle
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/2465
and
Family World http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/1457
Marital status: Married 1 year last month.
Started playing RPGs: About 10 Years ago though very infrequently in the
last 4 years. No gaming groups in my area.
First played D&D: About 10 years ago
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 10:38:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: StarHawk <starhawk@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] "Jennifer Favia" <valerya@hotmail.com>
> On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, Fabrizio Paoli wrote:
>
> > At 13.57 02/09/97 PDT, you wrote:
> >
> > >Your name, E-mail, where you're from, and if you're interested in
> > >working on anything in particular.
> > >
>
> Name: Bruce Pierpont
> E-mail: starhawk@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu
> Country: New Jersey, USA
> Working On: Still making specialty priests
Age: 21
Profession: Student/ Multimedia Programmer/Producer
Website:
Marital status: Unmarried
Started playing RPGs: I got the Red Basic Set for my seventh birthday.
First played D&D: A couple years after that (I don't remeber exactly)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:57:20 +0000
From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
> Hi there from Jennifer (valerya@hotmail.com)!
Hi Jennifer.
I`ve never been very active on this list, but enjoyed the ideas and
stimuli for my own campaign(s). Perhaps this will change in the
future.
Name: Lars Herrmann (aka Wizzard)
Email: wizzard@intcom.de
From: I´m living in Bamberg, but I`m from Nürnberg, Germany
Interests: All of Mystara But most of all in Minrothad (and SC in
secret). Working (thinking) on rules for EASY ruling a dominion, trade, mass combat,
sea combat. Writing my campaign (inspired by Dragonlance and WotI).
Regarding the info added by Jamm :
Age: 25
Profession: Student (hoping to finish next summer!!)
Website: currently none, perhaps later if I have more time
Marital Status: Single
(*yeach* what could be a martial status --> wrong typing)
Started playing RPGs: At about 10
First played D&D: ditto
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 11:18:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
Name: Rich
Email: crlptonite@aol.com
From: Boston area, Massachusetts, U.S.A.
Interests: Immortals, Glantri and
trying to get WotC to produce some new Mystara material
Age: 21
Profession: Assistant Manager of a 3rd party medical billing company (7
years)
Stripper (1 week)
guess where im making more money
GOD bless America!
Website: none
Marital status: single
Campaigns: 1) in the thunder rift supplement placed north of the KW
2) in Karameikos
3) in SW Davania
4) in Glantri right after MoA
Started playing RPGs: 17 years old
First played D&D: 17 years old
Our Group: we have 2 (sometimes 3) people left after
a marriage and college interference.
maybe some of the new people (or old) on the list
are from massachusetts or rhode island
and would like to join us.
PLEASE drop me a line and ill give you more info about us.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 11:41:47 -0500
From: Rob Rickard <cmnwrld@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
Name: Rob Rickard
Email: cmnwrld@mhtc.net
From: Wauzeka, Wisconsin USA
Interests: Travel, Anything outdoors...camping, hiking, explore
Age: 23
Profession: Computer Consulant
Website: http://www.cmnwrld.com (soon to be online...alot of RPG
stuff!!)
Marital status: Unmarried - thankgod
Started playing RPGs: christmas of 85 when I was 11 years old
First played D&D: The red box set of basic rules on christmas day.
Well, if I think back it was weeks later after I figured everything out
with my friends.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 01:09:49 +0800
From: Glenn Butcher <knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Soul Crystals
On Wed, Sep 03, 1997 at 04:31:27PM +0200, Fabrizio Paoli wrote:
> As you may know Shadow Elves shamans cannot bring their soul crystals to
> teh surface because the crystals crumble to dust just a few seconds after
> they're exposed to the sun.
> Even if they're kept in the dark they crumble after 1d4 hours because of
> the radiation of the sun.
> What if they're kept in a bag of holding?
> Things put in a such a bag aren't actually there, so maybe they aren't
> affected by the radiation? What do you think?
Sounds quite reasonable. There is precedent, since most of the time
effects outside the bag do not effect what is in the bag. Unless the bag is
destroyed or warped by magic (or magical areas).
> Obviously the shaman would still be unable to cast his spell above ground,
> but this can be a way to tranfer a soul crystal from Aengmor caves to (for
> example) Esterhold caves and cast shamanic spell over there.
Ahh, but the risk of losing the 'souls' of the Shadow Elves in the crystal...
It would have to be a very good cause to risk that. A better way would be to
travel underground to get there. Of course there is more risk of being
eaten by nasties, but at least the soul crystals are quite unlikely to
be destroyed.
(Some time I'll have to tell the tale of Phoranin, shaman of Rafiel,
who gave up her soul crystal that she might travel the surface and learn the
ways of the humans).
- --
knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au | "You're not very religious are you"
glennb@ichr.uwa.edu.au | Spoken by the goddess Kylara to
finger -l for pgp key | Lynard, her high priest
http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 10:08:47 -0400
From: "S.B. Wilson" <sbwilson@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
Hi all :)
I haven't been active lately for several reasons: First - a new job. It
takes up more time than I'd originally hoped, but I do enjoy it. Second, my
wife and I are getting ready to have our first baby!! Yeah! Needless to
say, I've been a little pre-occupied. ;)
Name: Steven B. Wilson
Email: sbwilson@earthlink.net
From: Renton, Wa (which is near Seattle)
Interests: Mystara-wise - anything. I've been working on Central/Northern
Brun on and off for awhile. Some of the areas I've messed with are Hyborea,
the Barbarian Kingdoms (including the Kingdom of Ghyr from XL-1 "Quest for
the Heartstone"), and a Draconic Council (taken from the
"Dragonlord/Dragonking/Dragonmage books).
Age: 23
Profession: Computer Tech
Web Site: In the works - perpetually, I think :(
Marital Status: Happily Married for almost a year
Started playing RPGs: around forth grade (for D&D - Known World)
First played AD&D: age 19-20
Take care all!
Steve
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 07:55:13 +0200
From: Deathwatch <deathw@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
>Your name, E-mail, where you're from, and if you're interested in
>working on anything in particular.
Name: Bas van Doornspeek (aka Deathwatch)
Email: deathw@xs4all.nl
From: Assendelft, The Netherlands
Homepage: http://www.xs4all.nl/~deathw/ (its not Mystara/RPG related)
Interests: Just anything, I'm trying to get as much Mystara stuff as possible.
Age: 18
Gender: Male
Bas van Doornspeek - deathw@xs4all.nl
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 15:59:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: DUFFISGOD@aol.com
Subject: [Mystara] Re: Gods VS. Immortals
I know this is kind of a forgotten realms question but i think it has
relevance here. can the chosen enter sigil if anyone noticed Elminster (the
only chosen i konw about) almost exactly reproduced the path of the polymath
in order to gain his status. if this where to be taken as a yes then the
immortals could be said to be the "chosen" of a different god or the old ones
(one of matter one of energy etc) the "old ones " alow the chosen the ability
to greant spells and are waiting for one day when they will ascend into
godhood.
duff
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 22:40:42 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
At 13.57 02/09/97 PDT, you wrote:
>Your name, E-mail, where you're from, and if you're interested in
>working on anything in particular.
I've already answered to this but I'll add a few more info:
Name: Fabrizio Paoli
E-mail: brizio@lunet.it
rafiel@geocities.com
s153349@studenti.ing.unipi.it
From: Lucca, Italy
Interests: Shadow Elves, Gnomes
I'm currently working on Shadow Elves stuff (and more) for the next
Mystaran Net-Almanac.
Website: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
Age: 23 (24 next month)
Profession: student of Aerospace Enginnering (hope to graduate in summer 1998)
Marital status: Single
Started playing RPGs: About 10 years ago
First played D&D: About 10 years ago
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 20:35:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mystaros@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
Name: James A. Mishler
Email: Mystaros@AOL.com (for now...)
From: Fort Wayne, IN
Interests: Mystara... though currently on hiatus... mostly... :)
Age: 28
Profession: Telephony Clerk and budding programmer...
Web Site: www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/1437/index.html
Marital Status: Married!!! Wahoo!!!!
Started playing RPGs: Winter 1980
First played [A]D&D: Summer 1981
First played in Mystara: Winter 1980
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:34:57 +0300 (GMT)
From: sq7s@dc.uba.ar (Sebastian Quiles)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Rule questions
>
> OK, since we started talking about spells:
> 1) how do you handle the Lightning Bolt? I mean, if it strikes a target,
> then rebounds on the wall, does he strike again the same target doing double
> damage?
Yes, the damage it's comulative, but it's no so easy to choise a path
to catch a monster twice in 10 seconds (D&D duration of 1 round)
Well, if the PC want to throw a LB straight ahead and damage a unique
creature for only one time, (unless the space between the PC and the wall
behind the monster it's very reduced), it's automatique and requires no
roll... but if he want to "specify" the direcction, the source place, to
make various bounce, to catch 2 or more creatures, or to hit twice one
creature, he must to make an Inteligence check, and depending of the
complexity of the path, somes minus applys in the roll. If he fail the
roll it's up to the DM to choise a new path (he can affect no body, or
evry one depending of the resul of the roll).
If the character wants to strike a monster and a PC are fighting it
(suppose a Big Monster and a small PC) the Magic User must to make and
Inteligence Check too, to avoid the PC and avoid the LB bounce directly
to the PC, a fail in the roll can means (depending of the roll) than the
LB hit the monster and the PC, or for example, the LB hit twice the PC
and once the Monster, or the LB hit twice the PC and not the monster (20
in the Roll)
> 2) when a PC activates a magic item, do you rule it counts as an "attack" or
> as an action, meaning he cannot do other things in the same round?
>
If it's a simple activation with a word of command, it's not an attack,
it's an action he can do anytime...
> Thanx
>
> DM
>
>
- --
Sebastian Quiles
================
Universidad de Buenos Aires
ARGENTINA
mailto:sq7s@dc.uba.ar
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:41:32 +0300 (GMT)
From: sq7s@dc.uba.ar (Sebastian Quiles)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Spells
> a issue of Dragon, I believe. However, I think
> standard spell should generally have pretty much
> same effect, even though they might be different in
> apprence. Using magic missle as example, different
> casters might customize the standard spell into
> different color bolts, or even fancy it up to a
> small flying skull, etc, but it should still be
> a visible missle doing magical energy damage. If
Do you know what's the diference between AD&D and D&D.......
in AD&D you have 20 spels like the Magic Missile, but with diferent
colors, forms, taste...
- --
Sebastian Quiles
================
Universidad de Buenos Aires
ARGENTINA
mailto:sq7s@dc.uba.ar
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 08:14:16 +0200 (EET DST)
From: Anias Pasi <a122286@students.cc.tut.fi>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Rule questions
Fabrizio:
> According to the RC the lighting bolt bounces back to the caster. It
> doesn't matter at which angle it hits the wall.
> Obviously this is not realistic, but is certainly an easy way to handle the
> rebound.
Actually... this was disgussed a while back in one of the newsgroups,
and as it seems, it is realistic. You see, when the lightning bolt
hits the wall, it will seek the easiest path to continue its journey.
And the easiest path is back the way it came, as the resistance of
the air is lessened on that path due to the bolts first passing...
I would still think that the spell works like this because the game
planners thought it easy, not because they knew how it should
work, but how can one know for sure.
Pasi
- --
X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X
X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X
X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 08:35:51 +0200 (EET DST)
From: Anias Pasi <a122286@students.cc.tut.fi>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
> Jennifer Favia:
> > So If you'll just take a minute to send me a blurb stating:
> > Your name, E-mail, where you're from, and if you're interested in
> > working on anything in particular.
Leroy:
> Nothing wrong with the people getting to know one another, which is
> why I encourage people to answer here on the list...
Well, all right then...
Data: Pasi Anias; 25 years; native of Finland; studying automation and
safety engineering in tampere university of technology and just beginning
my masters thesis; Brown hair and eyes, 180 cm, medium build and on a diet
at the time; also just ending a carreer as a student counsilor in my
department.
Gaming: Started at the age of ~15, DM'ing DD ever since, currently
member of my schools roleplaying club, playing dd once a week, and usually
something else once a week too: DMing Top Secret, Boothill or second
campaing of DD, or playing Mage or Delta green (cthulhu), though both
are rather new things. Also played ADD, Role, Gurps, Marvel, etc...
Other Hobbies: Running a war in Harpoon (The original, not computer that
is, currently USA is trying to invade Cuba), playing other boardgames,
Listening music, watching TV/movies (favourite series currently on
Finish tv: ST Deep Space Nine, Mr and Mrs Smith, Hill Street Blues(as
a rerun ofcource) (not in order). Having a romance too (for over 3
years now, gee the time runs).
Currently: Currently being too busy. That is why I havent been
so active in the list lately. I'm reading everything though,
and I do have one Idea I'm kind of working on. An article.
Also, Im propably moving my main campaing into FR soon, at
least for a while, as my players are getting to bee too
knowledgeable in the matters of Mystara.
Pasi
- --
X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X
X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X
X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 12:48:24 +0200
From: Tomas Sanchez Jr <deckard@encomix.es>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
Name : Tomás Sánchez Jr
E-mail : deckard@encomix.es
Country : Spain
Interests : Rules Review and Known World Development ( Currently
trying to evolve towards a more mature campaign, paying more
attention to history, politics, economics, customs, fauna, ... )
Anyway, i must recognize i'm a Mystara enthusiast and
i'll be glad to cooperate in nearly any project you propose.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:09:41 +-200
From: Laszko van Kessel <lvkessel@netaspect.nl>
Subject: AW: [Mystara] A List Survey
- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCB944.92D55360
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Hi everyone,
I'm one of those silent listeners who just joined this mail list for the =
third time in the past years. I hope I'll have more time this year to =
participate in Mystaran projects.=20
Here are my survey results:
Name: Laszko van Kessel AKA Swatantra
E-mail: laszko@freemail.nl
From: Leiden, Netherlands
Interests: Karameikos, elves, Darokin all after the WotI
Website: none
Age: 28
Profession: webdesigner
Marital status: not married
Started playing RPGs: 1990
First played D&D: 1990
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 09:26:01 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: [Mystara] Oard/Beagle/Emerondian theory
My post about the possibility of all TSR planets occupying the same
universe prompted a deluge of thoughts, which I'll share in (random) order:
Oards: What if the Oards- described as time traveling cyborgs, are
actually from Federation/BeagleSpace? They could be far-future remnants
of the Galactic Federation, who have developed into the society they
currently are. In that distant future, they have finally managed to find
the whereabouts of their missing S.S.Beagle, and their vast galactic
Empire has tracked it down to Mystara. There, they discovered that the
strange mixture of magic and technology that is rather inherent to
Mystara is a danger to their reign, and hence have begun to utilize time
travel in order to try and subvert the development of the backwater planet?
Emerondians: Both the Emerondians and the Federation members are
green-skinned peoples (though the Emerondians are somewhat darker toned).
What if these represent related species of Federation members? The
Emerondians (and, more importantly their Pyrithian ancestors) could
represent a branching of the Federation's primary species, one that made
use of organic technology as opposed to the inorganics used by the
Federation? Sort of like the Takisians in the _Wild Cards_ series? Their
spaceships are living creatures, they make use of organic devices, etc?
This would be consistent with the Emerondian technologies, as well as
perhaps explain the presence of the Pyrithians. Perhaps they are
renegades or something?
That should do it for now, but I'm still thinking, so don't be surprised
to see further stuff from me about this... :)
BTW, I just emailed the new assistant editor of Dragon- can't recall his
name offhand; Jason Decker?- anyway, he said that, for their Campaign
Journal series of articles, which showcases "dead" worlds, they've
recieved a number of Mystara articles recently, so not to be surprised if
they show up in Dragon in the future.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 20:10:22 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Nucleaus of Spheres destroyed???
At 16.01 02/09/97 -0400, Daniel wrote:
>On Tue, 2 Sep 1997 ALLREDV@aol.com wrote:
>
>> I was reading thourgh the timeline you wrote and it says that the NoS
>>was destroyed during the Alphatians attack on Glantri. Is that just your
>>campaign or is it from a source because if it was destroyed wouldn't magic be
>>gone according to the Glantri box set.
>
> I'm forwarding your question to the Mystara Mailing List, since I don't
>consider myself fully qualified to answer "Is the Nucleus the source of
>magic on Mystara?". :) (My own take would be "It's not the source of
>magic, it just sucks it away... and it might not be sucking magic anymore,
>either.".)
>
Thes issue of the NoS and its current status has been already discussed in
the list and at great length also with the important participation of Mr
Heard. If any of you wants to know more about it, i've collected all the
mails and arranged in a "questionnaire" mode in my homepage. Look for:
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/info/nucleus.html
Hope it will be helpful!
DM
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 21:21:16 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Oard/Beagle/Emerondian theory
On Thu, 4 Sep 1997, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote:
> My post about the possibility of all TSR planets occupying the same
> universe prompted a deluge of thoughts, which I'll share in (random) order:
Many interesting thoughts here. I think we should do something about
developing Mystara-space. If you're interested in a MSpace project, I'm
in. I should take more time commenting on this, but my studies take more
time than I had aticipated. anyway, here are a few comments:
>
> Oards: What if the Oards- described as time traveling cyborgs, are
> actually from Federation/BeagleSpace? They could be far-future remnants
> of the Galactic Federation, who have developed into the society they
> currently are. In that distant future, they have finally managed to find
> the whereabouts of their missing S.S.Beagle, and their vast galactic
> Empire has tracked it down to Mystara. There, they discovered that the
> strange mixture of magic and technology that is rather inherent to
> Mystara is a danger to their reign, and hence have begun to utilize time
> travel in order to try and subvert the development of the backwater planet?
These seem like good ideas. I dont know much about the Oards. I read the
monster description, but from previous postings on the matter there seemed
to be a lot more.
> Emerondians: Both the Emerondians and the Federation members are
> green-skinned peoples (though the Emerondians are somewhat darker toned).
> What if these represent related species of Federation members? The
> Emerondians (and, more importantly their Pyrithian ancestors) could
> represent a branching of the Federation's primary species, one that made
> use of organic technology as opposed to the inorganics used by the
> Federation? Sort of like the Takisians in the _Wild Cards_ series? Their
> spaceships are living creatures, they make use of organic devices, etc?
> This would be consistent with the Emerondian technologies, as well as
> perhaps explain the presence of the Pyrithians. Perhaps they are
> renegades or something?
I have thought about this too. The emerondians look more like elves dont
they? My theories also include that the Pyrithians, whom the Emerondians
are related to, are people who have been forced to leave Damocles. Perhaps
the Federation(is that official?) sent some colonists a long time ago, who
settled on Damocles. Following this line of thought the Beagle's crew
might have tried to recover the colony which lost contact with Prime World
(or whatever they call it, Coruscant? ;) This might not be the official
motive though. Perhaps most had forgotten about it. Maybe our man
Benekander could become a patron of these peoples.
>
> That should do it for now, but I'm still thinking, so don't be surprised
> to see further stuff from me about this... :)
give me some comments on this and I might have more as well.
> BTW, I just emailed the new assistant editor of Dragon- can't recall his
> name offhand; Jason Decker?- anyway, he said that, for their Campaign
> Journal series of articles, which showcases "dead" worlds, they've
> recieved a number of Mystara articles recently, so not to be surprised if
> they show up in Dragon in the future.
great! wonder if any of this lists participants are among the authors. You
Cthul? Bruce have you been up to something again? If they aren't we must
invite them here :)
later
Haavard
- ----
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V2 #132
*****************************
From: owner-mystara-digest@ (mystara-digest)
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #133
Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
Sender: owner-mystara-digest@
Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@
Precedence: bulk
mystara-digest Saturday, September 6 1997 Volume 02 : Number 133
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 15:36:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ray Brooks <rabrooks@bg1.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Oard/Beagle/Emerondian theory
> My post about the possibility of all TSR planets occupying the same
> universe prompted a deluge of thoughts, which I'll share in (random) order:
I know I haven't been on the list all that long, so maybe I missed these
postings. Where can I find them? Did the discussion take place here? If
not, where can I find it? I must say that I'm intrigued....
ray
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 20:47:20 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Smash Maneuver
OK, going on with my questions about D&D rules, how do you handle the Smash
option for the fighters? I mean, how many times can a fighter smash in a round?
IMC, i give the fighter 1 smash per action, which means that if he's got
multiple attacks he can attack and smash ONCE at the end of the round (as
per rules). However, if he's hasted once, he CAN perform TWO smash maneuvers
at the end of the round (regardless of the n° of attacks), and if he's
hasted twice, then he's got 4 smash attacks at the end of the round.
Obviously i use Fatigue Points (see Combat & Tactics) so that if he performs
a smash he subtracts 2 fatigue points instead of only one for a normal attack.
What do you think and how to you handle the issue IYC?
DM
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 20:47:28 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
>At 01:57 PM 9/2/97 PDT, Jennifer wrote:
>So If you'll just take a minute to send me a blurb stating:
>
>Your name, E-mail, where you're from, and if you're interested in
>working on anything in particular.
Name: Marco Dalmonte (aka DM, Dek Shari and others too obscure to mention)
Email: dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
From: Barbiano (Ravenna), ITALY
Interests: D&D (really?), Ravenloft (?really?), Spelljammer (what the heck
is it?), Horror Literature, Writing, Seeing the world
I'm currently working for the Net Almanac 1015 detailing Wendar
and Denagoth and maybe something other up in Norwold. I'm interested also in
a crossover among Mystara and Spelljammer and Ravenloft (too much daring u
say... eh eh... I've come up with an adventure that will really shake my
players forever: but that will be The Last Adventure) Like to convert novels
and movies into D&D adventures (and i've successfully done 3-4 so far)
Age: 22 (23 in January)
Profession: student of Communications
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/3090 (and then
reach the others)
Status: single, ready and waiting :)
Started playing RPGs: around age 14-15 (yeah, a bit late i must admit)
First played [A]D&D: never played AD&D, only OD&D and MD&D (MyD&D) :)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 23:39:38 +0100
From: Martin Johansen <m.johansen@aarslev.ou.dk>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
On Tue, 02 Sep 1997 13:57:18 PDT
"Jennifer Favia" <valerya@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi there from Jennifer (valerya@hotmail.com)!
>
Name: Martin Johansen
Email: m.johansen@aarslev.ou.dk
>From: Odense, Denmark
Interests: RPG: Mainly Mystara AD&D, and especially Savage Coast and
the Red Steel Campaign.
Other: Writing, reading, chatting on the net, composing
music(on the computer) and listening to music.
Age: 25
Profession: Computer Technician doing Network Maintainance, User
assistance and general computer tech stuff.
Web Site: None yet, but soon.......I hope ;-)
Marital Status: Nope
Started with RPGs: About age 17
First played AD&D: ditto
Last Comment: I follow almost all of the discussions on the list,
particularly the one about immortals, but seldom
have enough time (or knowledge!) to participate "in
person".
Nice idea with this presentation, Jennifer!
Best regards,
Martin
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex,
and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of
courage -- to move in the opposite direction."
- - Albert Einstein
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Martin Johansen (m.johansen@aarslev.ou.dk)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 18:02:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Esherdon@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
Hi Jen
E-mail :Esherdon@aol.com
Name :Christopher Gravuer
Location :Philadelphia Pa
Web page :http://members.aol.com/Esherdon/Es1.html
Profession :Shift manager and food service specialist
Marrital Status:Single
Age :23
Stats:
I have been role playing since late june of 1983 and started Dming my first
adventure in December of 1984.I have been dming Mystara since 1987 Starting
in Karamekios.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 21:54:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
Name: John Yu
Email: scy2g@virginia.edu
From: Charlottesville, Virginia (Mid-east of USA)
Moved from Taiwan when I was 9
Interest: Currently working on MOrient. When I have more time,
there are several other stuffs I want to work on (developing
the Glantry's secret crafts, floor plans of castles/forts etc).
Age: 25
Profession: Grad student. Chemical Engineering in BS and working
on master in Material Science. Plan to finish by end of the year.
Web Site: None
M. Status: Single, and not likely to change anytime soon :)
Start Playing RPG: 13, starting with the red box.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 23:29:47 -0500
From: brunciak <brunciak@erols.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara]
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Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 20:48:02 -0500
From: brunciak <brunciak@erols.com>
Reply-To: brunciak@erols.com
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CC: brunciak@erols.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
References: <1.5.4.32.19970829114450.006b66e8@unet.univie.ac.at> <19970903184503.60415@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
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> Hi there from Jennifer (valerya@hotmail.com)!
Name: Robert Brunciak
E-mail: brunciak@erols.com
From: Clifton, New Jersey, USA
Interests: RPGs: D&D: Mystara (almost anything about it!),
Dragonlance, Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms,
Generic OD&D
Other: Dragon Warrior, Phantasy Star, Final Fantasy,
Middle Earth
Other: Strategy Games of all kind, reading, hiking,
history (Byzantine Empire), Anime!Anime!Anime!
Working on: Creating some new Thyatian fighting orders, developing
some of Mystara's oceans, Karameikos (all for my campaign)
Creating my own world
Age: 16
Profession: Student; going into Archaeology once out of high school.
Website: None until I can get my computer fixed and refit.
Marital Status: Marriage is bit out of my age group (single)
Started Playing RPGs: 7
Started Playing D&D: 10 (played 3 adventures and have DMed after that;
no one else I know wants to DM!)
Some Thoughts: Many people think that because of my age I'm one of the
new breed of role-players that don't appreciate the true meaning of
D&D and Mystara. That's untrue; I actually like the old D&D products
more that most AD&D products and worlds and tried to learn as much as I
could through collecting as many OD&D products as I can. To me, the old
products are what D&D is and isn't anymore. I'm a staunch supporter of
keeping the world of Mystara alive (through many of your peoples'
publishings) and the way it was before the AD&D campaign world. Even
though I'm only 16 I act like and hope to be treated like
a mature and dedicated D&D role-player. Thanks!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 00:54:37 -0400
From: "David 'Azure' Leland" <dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
At 01:57 PM 9/2/97 PDT, Jennifer Favia wrote:
>So If you'll just take a minute to send me a blurb stating:
>
>Your name, E-mail, where you're from, and if you're interested in
>working on anything in particular.
Name: David Leland
Email: dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu
From: originally Miami Beach, Florida, USA; now San Diego, California, USA
Interests: OD&D with modifications from AD&D and home rules;
currently--incorporating Ravenloft material into Karameikos (esp. via
connections to Traladaran gothic flavor), a Mystic cloister at the
Karameikos/Darokin border, Benekander/Rheddrian and the Order of the Owl
Working on: nothing right now (too busy!)
Age: 23
Profession: PhD-track graduate student in cognitive science at UCSD
Website: http://cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland
Marital status: unmarried
Started playing RPGs: ~1987
First played D&D: same
/ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ \
: David "Azure" Leland ~|~ dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu :
| UCSD Cognitive Science ~|~ Phone/Fax: (619) 642-6709 |
: Graduate Research Fellow ~|~ http://cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland :
\ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ /
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 14:30:32 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Oard/Beagle/Emerondian theory
On Thu, 4 Sep 1997, Ray Brooks wrote:
> > My post about the possibility of all TSR planets occupying the same
> > universe prompted a deluge of thoughts, which I'll share in (random) order:
>
> I know I haven't been on the list all that long, so maybe I missed these
> postings. Where can I find them? Did the discussion take place here? If
> not, where can I find it? I must say that I'm intrigued....
On Shawn Stanley's page, there is a writeup that Leroy did a long time
ago postulating the relation of Mystaraspace to the Planescape accessory.
In it he posits that there are multiple dimensions, but I just recently
(read: yesterday) posted a theory that perhaps they all occupy the same
universe, just in remote locations from one another. There hasn't been
much discussion as yet. :)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 15:11:49 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Oard/Beagle/Emerondian theory
On Thu, 4 Sep 1997, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote:
> Many interesting thoughts here. I think we should do something about
> developing Mystara-space. If you're interested in a MSpace project, I'm
> in. I should take more time commenting on this, but my studies take more
> time than I had aticipated. anyway, here are a few comments:
I've actually been thinking about this myself. It's something I'd toyed
with before, but with the advent of _Tales From the Comet_, I thought it
might be even more timely now. (Note: I haven't read TFC, so I don't have
much idea what it contains).
(On the Oards being future "Borg-ized" Federation members)
> These seem like good ideas. I dont know much about the Oards. I read the
> monster description, but from previous postings on the matter there seemed
> to be a lot more.
Another idea would be to make them a competitive race to the Federation,
but then we start to get a bit _too_ much like Star Trek... :)
(On Emerondians being related to the Federation members)
> I have thought about this too. The emerondians look more like elves dont
> they?
I don't recall offhand. I only remember that they are green skinned with
silver hair. The green skin and the fact they originate in space made me
think of the Federation.
> My theories also include that the Pyrithians, whom the Emerondians
> are related to, are people who have been forced to leave Damocles. Perhaps
> the Federation(is that official?) sent some colonists a long time ago, who
> settled on Damocles.
Yes- the Federation is official. :) From DA2-Temple of the Frog and
DA3-City of the Gods. Very tongue in cheek references to the Beagle being
a sort of "Enterprise". Even the Captain, Bork Riesling, is seems to bear
similarities to Captain Kirk.
I recall the Damocles idea. Perhaps there could still be remnants of the
Pyrithians on Damocles?
> Following this line of thought the Beagle's crew might have tried to
> recover the colony which lost contact with Prime World (or whatever
> they call it, Coruscant? ;) This might not be the official motive
> though. Perhaps most had forgotten about it. Maybe our man Benekander
> could become a patron of these peoples.
I had thought about this idea, but discarded it. It isn't really
consistent with what we know of the Beagle, for one (that it was
exploring uncharted territory), and it raises the question of why the
Federation hasn't recovered their lost vessel in the 4000 years since it
disappeared, if they are familiar with Mystaraspace. I prefer the thought
of Federation space being located far away- perhaps at the hub of the
galaxy mentioned in the Gold Box Immortals set- and the Beagle having
slipped into a "magical" energy rift that transported it to Mystaraspace,
millions of light years away. (The Beagle is actually, then, more like
Voyager than the Enterprise. Slipped into a wormhole or something. ;)
The Benekander thought is an interesting one, though, and one I could buy
into. He would likely be intrigued by their spacefaring ways.
> great! wonder if any of this lists participants are among the authors. You
> Cthul? Bruce have you been up to something again? If they aren't we must
> invite them here :)
I'm not one of them- yet. I'm working on some ideas for submission
though, so maybe soon. :)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 11:35:31 +0200
From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
Hi!
DM wrote:
> Like to convert novels
>and movies into D&D adventures (and i've successfully done 3-4 so far)
Which one? And can you part with them?
************************************************************
Peter Balazs
Wurlitzerg. 37/12
1160 Wien
0222/4816030
a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at
pbalazs@radon.mat.univie.ac.at
http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 10:20:16 +0200
From: Kursist nr 05 på Server nr 18 <a0518@hkmoduldata.dk>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
DM wrote:
> Like to convert novels
>and movies into D&D adventures (and i've successfully done 3-4 so far)
>
I would very much like to know more about those. There are quite a few
movies that I have wanted to make adventures of, but the time..........
Martin
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 01:16:46 PDT
From: "Davide Bucci" <davidebucci@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Smash Maneuver
> OK, going on with my questions about D&D rules, how do you handle the
Sm=
>ash
>option for the fighters? I mean, how many times can a fighter smash in
a =
>round?
> IMC, i give the fighter 1 smash per action, which means that if he's
got
>multiple attacks he can attack and smash ONCE at the end of the round
(as
>per rules). However, if he's hasted once, he CAN perform TWO smash
maneuv=
>ers
>at the end of the round (regardless of the n=B0 of attacks), and if
he's
>hasted twice, then he's got 4 smash attacks at the end of the round.
>Obviously i use Fatigue Points (see Combat & Tactics) so that if he
perfo=
>rms
>a smash he subtracts 2 fatigue points instead of only one for a normal
at=
>tack.
>What do you think and how to you handle the issue IYC?
>
>DM
I think fighters should be able to do 1 smash for every attack they've
got and then lost 2 fatigue points for every smash....
Give your fighters only a smash attack per round could "cut the legs" to
your poor fighter character...
PC
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 13:18:13 +-200
From: Gabriele Ferri <fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
Well, I've lurked enough... I can start writing again....
Name: Gabriele Ferri
Gender: Male (Gabriele is an Italian male name, sometimes foreign people get confused)
Email: fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it
From: San Lazzaro di Savena, Bologna, Italy
Interests: Everything, but my spare time is virtually zero... Anyway I'm in the MOrient project (but I'd like to have more time to work with the group..)
Other topics you didn't ask for but that I thought might interest you:
Age: 17
Profession: Student, 2nd league waterpolo player
Web Site: none, for now
Marital Status: Single
Started playing RPGs: not seriously around age 10
seriously (a campaign with a good plot) at 14
First played D&D: 10
First played AD&D: 15
Campaign running: on a ship somewhere around the Thanegioth Arcipelago.
Gabriele Ferri - fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 97 13:11:00 MET
From: Sven Munther <smunther@wk06.Copenhagen.NCR.COM>
Subject: [Mystara] A List Survey
Hello all,
I'm also one of those silent listeners who been on the list for
quite some time. Here are my survey result:
Name: Sven Munther
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Interests: Glantry, future of the Alfheim people (esp. the king, clan
leaders, other VIPs)
Age: 37
Profession: IT consultant
Marital status: married for quite a number of years
Started playing RPGs: 1982
First played D&D: 1982
DM'ed my Mystara/Ravenloft campaign in periods since 1988
Currently running Baba Yaga's hut (with some diskworld inspired
additions) set
in Glantry. I have not started the WotI world war yet, but I am setting
one of my
players up as a king in Alfheim (cruel - I know). Apart from the future
king, most
of my players are stationed in Gallantry - even the cleric. I should also
mention that
I am one of the few who like and use the Ierendi setting. I also had my
players through
the blood brethren trilogy (night wail, night howl, night storm) which I
will strongly
recommend. Has anyone else run these modules?
Sven
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:21:02 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Oard/Beagle/Emerondian theory
On Thu, 4 Sep 1997, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Sep 1997, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote:
<On MSpace Project>
> I've actually been thinking about this myself. It's something I'd toyed
> with before, but with the advent of _Tales From the Comet_, I thought it
> might be even more timely now. (Note: I haven't read TFC, so I don't have
> much idea what it contains).
I haven't either. Marco (DM) seemed to know a lot about it?
anyway, I'm really interested in how these Ideas are developed. Just for
the record, I am one of those who see the AD&D Multiverse as another
dimension at best.
> (On the Oards being future "Borg-ized" Federation members)
>
> > These seem like good ideas. I dont know much about the Oards. I read the
> > monster description, but from previous postings on the matter there seemed
> > to be a lot more.
>
> Another idea would be to make them a competitive race to the Federation,
> but then we start to get a bit _too_ much like Star Trek... :)
Yes. I remember you posting something on that earlier. I think I even may
have the post somehwere. Anyway, I agree that we should try to keep
Mystara different from any TV-series or whatever. Inspiration and a few
inside jokes are good though.
In any case I'm not a big ST-fan. More of a B5'er if anything.
any Vorlons out there?
> (On Emerondians being related to the Federation members)
>
> > I have thought about this too. The emerondians look more like elves dont
> > they?
> I don't recall offhand. I only remember that they are green skinned with
> silver hair. The green skin and the fact they originate in space made me
> think of the Federation.
I do believe they are described as silver haired green skinned elves.
Anyway, their differences may be the result of mutations of Homoforming.
> > My theories also include that the Pyrithians, whom the Emerondians
> > are related to, are people who have been forced to leave Damocles. Perhaps
> > the Federation(is that official?) sent some colonists a long time ago, who
> > settled on Damocles.
> Yes- the Federation is official. :) From DA2-Temple of the Frog and
> DA3-City of the Gods. Very tongue in cheek references to the Beagle being
> a sort of "Enterprise". Even the Captain, Bork Riesling, is seems to bear
> similarities to Captain Kirk.
>
> I recall the Damocles idea. Perhaps there could still be remnants of the
> Pyrithians on Damocles?
Yes. Or the damocleans are the same race as the Pyrithians/Emerondians.
My theories also included the destruction of Damocles, which some
suggested could have taken place during WotI. Maybe this could be
postponed though.
> > Following this line of thought the Beagle's crew might have tried to
> > recover the colony which lost contact with Prime World (or whatever
> > they call it, Coruscant? ;) This might not be the official motive
> > though. Perhaps most had forgotten about it. Maybe our man Benekander
> > could become a patron of these peoples.
>
> I had thought about this idea, but discarded it. It isn't really
> consistent with what we know of the Beagle, for one (that it was
> exploring uncharted territory), and it raises the question of why the
> Federation hasn't recovered their lost vessel in the 4000 years since it
> disappeared, if they are familiar with Mystaraspace. I prefer the thought
> of Federation space being located far away- perhaps at the hub of the
> galaxy mentioned in the Gold Box Immortals set- and the Beagle having
> slipped into a "magical" energy rift that transported it to Mystaraspace,
> millions of light years away. (The Beagle is actually, then, more like
> Voyager than the Enterprise. Slipped into a wormhole or something. ;)
Perhaps the Damocleans were fleeing from Federation and accidentally
dropped through the Wormhole. One of the crew might have known about this
and secretly altered the course of the ship slightly so that it passed
through the same Wormhole. Or maybe the Beagle ending up at the same place
was just a coincidence. Keep in mind that the Federation could be as
ancient as say The Old Republic from Star Wars. The Damocleans could have
come to their world, loong before the Beagle set out on its Voyage.
> The Benekander thought is an interesting one, though, and one I could buy
> into. He would likely be intrigued by their spacefaring ways.
you've been working on the Second Moon. Maybe they have or will have some
encounter from the Pyrithians?
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 16:24:46 +0100
From: Martin Johansen <m.johansen@aarslev.ou.dk>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
> DM wrote:
> > Like to convert novels
> >and movies into D&D adventures (and i've successfully done 3-4 so far)
> >
Sorry, all. Sent this mail earlier but somehow a wrong name took place
of my own, so here I go again!
I would very much like to know more about those. There are quite a few
movies that I have wanted to make adventures of, but the time..........
Martin
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
- -Bilbo Baggins
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Martin Johansen (m.johansen@aarslev.ou.dk)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 16:00:11 GMT
From: SteveParker@azorius.co.uk (Steve Parker)
Subject: [Mystara] - A List Survey
Another Lurker takes off his cloak of stealth.....
Name: Steve Parker
Age: 25
Profession: IT Consultant
Started Playing: Age 10 (D&D)
Currently Playing: OD&D, AD&D 2nd Edition.
Current Projects: Mystara Character Generator in Visual Basic 5
Various DM/Player Utilities in VB 5.
Interested in: Karameikos, Darokin, Military Settings, Campaigns and
details.
E-Mail: SteveParker@azorius.co.uk
Home Page 1: http://www.netmatters.co.uk/users/thesorceror/
Home Page 2: http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/square/gq95/
Kind Regards
Steve Parker
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 08:02:26 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Oard/Beagle/Emerondian theory
On Fri, 5 Sep 1997, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote:
> you've been working on the Second Moon. Maybe they have or will have some
> encounter from the Pyrithians?
As I have it now, they have. Check out the entry for Rajahstan that I
have done- I've got the Pyrithian slavers that eventually became the
Emerondians being responsible (at least in part) for bringing the Rakasta
to Mystara.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:04:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mischa E Gelman <megst19+@pitt.edu>
Subject: [Mystara] Survey (fwd)
Well, tried twice and it bounced back so here goes again:
Name:Mischa Gelman (megst19+@pitt.edu)
Marital Status:Single
Party Affiliation:Democrat
Religion:Jewish
Job:Working in Victoria Hall Library at Pitt/Student, Bachelor's of Arts
in Social Work at Pitt (a demanding program)
Interests (Mystara):Demihumans,Hollow World (which nicely overlapped in my
Kogolor HWR :), Religion in Mystara
Interests (Other):Reading (fantasy or historical nonfiction),MUSHing
(basically all the RPing I do anymore),Listening to classic rock or good
piano or sax music (Billy Joel,Cannonball Adderly,Eagles,Coleman
Hawkins,Thelonius Monk..)..not much time for any hobbies with the workload
inherent in being a BASW student at Pitt.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 17:08:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Wassellj@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] - A List Survey
Name: Jason Wassell
Age: 27
Nationality: British or Scottish
Profession: Public Relations Officer with the National Health Service
Started Playing: Age 14 (D&D) - Always the player never the DM.
Have also dabbled in CoC, Warhammer,Ran a mile from AD&D
Favourite Player Moment: Watching as my Kalaar, my Avenger, pushed the Duke
Stephen, down a flight of stairs. This was just before his country was
incorporated into a new Empire of Peletain. Oh those were interesting days !
Currently Playing: OD&D, with some of this new Mystara information. Also
starting to mix in some Planescape adventures.
Other Interests: Current affairs, active member of Scottish Labour Party, and
Football, especially Dundee United.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 02:05:22 +0200
From: Ivar B Lien <iblien@online.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
- --------------486D26C439552C2D61ED32FB
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Jennifer Favia wrote:
> The List page seems either out of date, or maybe a few people just
> aren't participating in stuff as much as just "browsing"; so I came up
> with the idea of a survey, or "census" of all you List members. That
> way, I'll know who's interested in me contacting them (to work on
> projects,etc).
>
> So If you'll just take a minute to send me a blurb stating:
>
Hiya!
Responses to your survey:
Name: Ivar B Lien AKA Levandi
Email: levandi@hotmail.com / iblien@online.no
From: Oslo, Norway
Interests: Mystara (Karameikos, Darokin, Planes.) Also a big fan of the
dragonlord triology. I play Warhammer FRPG in addition.
Age: 22
Profession: Student at the University of Oslo.
Started playing roleplay at 19. (not very long time ago) Played
Warhammer for a years time before I "discovered" ADD.
Ivar
I don't mind beeing mad, but I do mind that others think I'm mad.
Levandi.
- --------------486D26C439552C2D61ED32FB
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML>
<BODY TEXT="#000000" BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF" LINK="#0000EE" VLINK="#551A8B" ALINK="#FF0000">
Jennifer Favia wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>The List page seems either out of date, or maybe
a few people just aren't participating in stuff as much as just "browsing";
so I came up with the idea of a survey, or "census" of all you List members.
That way, I'll know who's interested in me contacting them (to work on
projects,etc).
<P>So If you'll just take a minute to send me a blurb stating:
<BR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
Hiya!
<P>Responses to your survey:
<P>Name: Ivar B Lien AKA Levandi
<BR>Email: levandi@hotmail.com / iblien@online.no
<BR>From: Oslo, Norway
<BR>Interests: Mystara (Karameikos, Darokin, Planes.) Also a big fan of
the dragonlord triology. I play Warhammer FRPG in addition.
<BR>Age: 22
<BR>Profession: Student at the University of Oslo.
<P>Started playing roleplay at 19. (not very long time ago) Played Warhammer
for a years time before I "discovered" ADD.
<P>Ivar
<BR>
<BR>
<UL><U>I don't mind beeing mad, but I do mind that others think I'm mad.</U>
<UL>
<UL>
<UL>
<UL>
<UL>
<UL>
<UL>
<UL>
<UL> </UL>
Levandi.</UL>
</UL>
</UL>
</UL>
</UL>
</UL>
</UL>
</UL>
</UL>
</BODY>
</HTML>
- --------------486D26C439552C2D61ED32FB--
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 21:02:54 +0300 (GMT)
From: sq7s@dc.uba.ar (Sebastian Quiles)
Subject: [Mystara] A List Survey
name: Sebastian Quiles
Age: 23 (recently)
email: sq7s@dc.uba.ar
From: Buenos Aires (No more candidate of the Olympics Games) ARGENTINA
I play D&D since: 1982
I play AD$D since: never... hopefully
Interest: Mystara.... Improve D&D rules...
Website: Building one...
Currently: Student of Computer Sciences... (5th. year)
Hobbies: Archery, Computers, Music (love Queen, Led Zep and Pink Floyd)
- --
Sebastian Quiles
================
Universidad de Buenos Aires
ARGENTINA
mailto:sq7s@dc.uba.ar
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 23:40:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Magesmiley@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
Well, I just tuned into this area and didn't see what the original post was,
and what the questions were, but I'm a long time Mystara fan...
Name: Greg Pratt
E-Mail: Magesmiley@aol.com
From: Everett, Wa
Interests: Currently running a small AD&D campaign for friends begining in
Thyatis (I'm running the Wrath of the Immortals stuff which starts in 1004),
otherwise if I have some spare time I've been working on a major overhaul of
Norwold and the old module Test of the Warlords. I don't usually have a lot
of time, so its been slow. I'll throw another idea out there for everyone:
a place where the psionicist class would fit in on Mystara; how about if the
Hin Masters were an order of psionicists...
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 00:09:58 +0100
From: "Leroy Van Camp III" <malacoda@lesbois.com>
Subject: [Mystara] Gothic Horror and Karameikos
David 'Azure' Leland meandered fecklessly...
> Interests: OD&D with modifications from AD&D and home rules;
> currently--incorporating Ravenloft material into Karameikos (esp. via
> connections to Traladaran gothic flavor),
Nice to see someone with some of the same ideas I have. Since
getting into Mystara I have always played up the gothic horror aspect
of the Karameikian countryside and small towns.
One if these days I am going to play with a group hasn't been through
the original Ravenloft module and have them pay a little visit to
Koriszegy keep...
Leroy Van Camp III
malacoda@lesbois.com
owner-mystara-l@io.com
"You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle."
MST3K
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 08:08:40 +0100
From: Thorfinn Tait <Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
On Fri, 5 Sep 1997 Sven Munther <smunther@wk06.Copenhagen.NCR.COM>
wrote:
>Interests: Glantry, future of the Alfheim people (esp. the king, clan
>leaders, other VIPs)
You will probably be very interested in the next Mystaran Almanac or few
in that case. I'm not saying any more! ;-)
>Currently running Baba Yaga's hut (with some diskworld inspired
>additions) set
>in Glantry. I have not started the WotI world war yet, but I am setting
>one of my
>players up as a king in Alfheim (cruel - I know).
Nice... That's the sort of thing I love to do.
>Apart from the future king, most
>of my players are stationed in Gallantry - even the cleric.
Well, on the subject of clerics in Glantri... I am planning in my next
set of adventures to set a trail of clues for one of my PCs which leads
to Glantri City and the very School of Magic itself. He is a Cleric, as
is another PC, the third being an Alphatian magic-user. Anyway, this PC
has some gold dragon blood in him and is starting to research his
heritage, which will lead him to some obscure references to what he will
eventually find out is the Secret Craft of Dracology.
Then, I plan to have the whole party - two clerics and a magic-user -
daringly infiltrate the School of Magic! It's going to be a fun
adventure. :-)
>I should also mention that
>I am one of the few who like and use the Ierendi setting. I also had my
>players through
>the blood brethren trilogy (night wail, night howl, night storm) which
I will strongly recommend. Has anyone else run these modules?
Actually I also like Ierendi, although I haven't used it yet. As for
the Blood Brethren trilogy, I ran them a while ago when I wasn't too
experienced as a DM, and although I was enthralled by the plot, my
players weren't too impressed. I think the adventures need more
fleshing out than the modules suggest, and we found the final encounters
with the "big baddies" anti-climactic. :-(
Anyway, they do have great plots, if you seed a few more clues to
actually allow the players to eventually unravel them. There's not much
point in a master plot if the PCs never find out about it!
Thorf.
=========================================
"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."
- Bilbo Baggins, "The Lord of the Rings"
Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk
Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline
=========================================
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 08:27:56 +0100
From: Thorfinn Tait <Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
Name: Thorfinn Leonard Tait
Email: Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk
From: Orkney, Scotland.
Interests: In Mystara (OD&D), Shadow Elves, gnomes of all cultures and
locations, all other Elves, especially Ilsundal-worshipping clans,
Glantri, Karameikos, Alphatia, the Hollow World (Azca, Nithia, plus
pretty much all the rest), the Savage Coast (Herath, Wallara, the
Immortal's Arm specifically), Yavdlom... I could go on!
Specifically I am working on an Alignment Project dealing with
NPCs' personalities, Almanac events for 1015 (throughout the Hollow
World and help on Shadow Elves), updating my web pages with old and new
D&D stuff, completing my overall Timeline (complete with ironed-out
discrepancies and detailed footnotes) and much, much more. I am
interested in helping on a great many projects - generally I will get in
touch if I see something that interests me on the list, or else anyone
can ask me and I'll try to be some help.
Other Interests: I love Tolkien and stuff to do with his works, numerous
computer games (strategy mostly - hate Doom-type games, flight sims,
platform games, shoot-em-ups and beat-em-ups), television programmes
(unfortunately no good fantasy, just science-fiction) and films, as well
as reading (fantasy especially but also some sci-fi, like Dune for
example), history (Central and South American native cultures, Vikings
(my ancestors), Classical period Romans and Greeks, Egyptians, etc.).
Age: 19 (13-06-78 in case anyone's interested)
Profession: soon to be 2nd year student of English Lit. and Language at
Edinburgh University here in Scotland.
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/1413/
Marital Status: Single
Started playing RPGs: Oh, about age 9, I think.
First played [A]D&D: OD&D age 9 (red box, my first RPG), AD&D never.
Not yet, anyway. We'll see.
Great idea, btw, Jennifer!
Thorf.
=========================================
"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."
- Bilbo Baggins, "The Lord of the Rings"
Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk
Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline
=========================================
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 09:30:06 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Oard/Beagle/Emerondian theory
Cthulhudrew wrote:
<<Oards: What if the Oards- described as time traveling cyborgs, are
actually from Federation/BeagleSpace? They could be far-future remnants of
the Galactic Federation, who have developed into the society they currently
are. In that distant future, they have finally managed to find the
whereabouts of their missing S.S.Beagle, and their vast galactic Empire has
tracked it down to Mystara. There, they discovered that the strange mixture
of magic and technology that is rather inherent to Mystara is a danger to
their reign, and hence have begun to utilize time travel in order to try and
subvert the development of the backwater planet?>>
How? I mean, how are they tampering with our (meaning Mystara) world?
Following your hypothesis, could it be that the Aelos incident had been some
sort of "major rehersal" before the oards start toying with our reality? Or
could it be that they already altered our timestream and there is now an
alternate Mystara dominated by oards, who are trying to change all the other
realities into their own? (Perhaps Damocles exploded when the two alternate
realities touched in that point of the continuum...)
<<Emerondians: Both the Emerondians and the Federation members are
green-skinned peoples (though the Emerondians are somewhat darker toned).
What if these represent related species of Federation members?>>
Could be: after all, they never said where the Pyrithian Archipelago was
located exactly... even though near ex-Damocles is a good solution (as
Havaard proposed)
<<The Emerondians (and, more importantly their Pyrithian ancestors) could
represent a branching of the Federation's primary species, one that made use
of organic technology as opposed to the inorganics used by the Federation?
This would be consistent with the Emerondian technologies, as well as
perhaps explain the presence of the Pyrithians. Perhaps they are renegades
or something?>>
OK, it sounds good, but here i have another possible solution.
Planet of the Apes:
the Pyrithians and the Beagle crewmen are both members of the same race and
they arrived in Mystaraspace traveling not thru space as they think but thru
time! They are the descendants of nowadays Mystarans, coming from distant
future where magic is extinct and technology dominates. They came back in
time without realizing it while attempting to test some device of hyperspace
jump. The Beagle crashed on Mystara, while the Pyrithians crashed on the
Asteroid Belt called Archipelago. Later the Emerondians fled from the
Pyrithian homeworld following the way of Nature, while the remaining
Pyrithians destroyed themselves in the Archipelago using technology. In the
future magic will vanish and the emerondians will become the dominant race,
trying to preach the worship of Nature and avoid technology... but not
everybody will listen and technology will rise again (maybe with the help of
Oards?), so that the circle closes with the exploration of space and the
Beagle under construction...
You know, there are so few data about this issue and so much specualtion
that nobody can say for sure what's right or wrong...
<<Another idea would be to make them a competitive race to the Federation,
but then we start to get a bit _too_ much like Star Trek... :)>>
Well, i kinda like it, and i have already a sort of "Federation" in my
campaign, so why not? All we need to ask is: do we want to fix this problem
once and for all? IN this case then, we should cooperate and find a
plausible solution to be considered as demi-official for all until TSR
publish something on this matter.
>I recall the Damocles idea. Perhaps there could still be remnants of the
>Pyrithians on Damocles?
Daniel Boese had also some thoughts about this issue IIRC...
DM
dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/3090
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V2 #133
*****************************
From: owner-mystara-digest@ (mystara-digest)
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #134
Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
Sender: owner-mystara-digest@
Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@
Precedence: bulk
mystara-digest Monday, September 8 1997 Volume 02 : Number 134
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 09:47:52 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Gothic Horror and Karameikos
At 00.09 06/09/97 +0100, you wrote:
>
>David 'Azure' Leland meandered fecklessly...
>
>> Interests: OD&D with modifications from AD&D and home rules;
>> currently--incorporating Ravenloft material into Karameikos (esp. via
>> connections to Traladaran gothic flavor),
>
> Nice to see someone with some of the same ideas I have. Since
>getting into Mystara I have always played up the gothic horror aspect
>of the Karameikian countryside and small towns.
IMHO, there are some other locations beside Karameikos that can be linked or
played with "Ravenloftian" flavor:
- -Boldavia (veeery similar to RL Barovia - if u have I6: Ravenloft or House
of Strahd, you can stage it in Boldavia using either Strahd von Zarovich or
Prince Gorevitch-Woszlany as the main villain)
- -Klantyre (similar to RL Darkon -pre Grim Harvest)
- -Morlay-Malinbois (similar to Kartakass and Verbrek)
- -Ylaruam (slightly similar to Har'Akir -well, it's a desert...)
- -Darokin (Paridon or Mordent -sort of...)
I have played many gothic and fantasy horror style adventures in Thyatis
too, and i must say they worked really well. I think the only thing you need
is the will to do it, because you have plenty of settings to exploit in
Mystara for this kinda adventures (provided your players like them, of course).
I've also stage a revised "Evil Dead" in Darokin and i'm currently thinking
about an "Island of Doctor Moreau" in the Tanegioth Archipelago (much like
"Neither Man Nor Beast")...
So, as i've said, it's all up to you DM, and the players...
DM
dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/3090
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 09:50:41 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Valerya's idea
Actually, i had also thought about making a list survey but never proposed
the thing, so i'm happy to see now someone has taken the initiative. Thus,
i've also collected the posts and i'm currently doing my own personal list,
and i would be grateful if you Valeryas posted your stats to the list, too.
And for those of you who have not done it yet, could you please state your
birth date instead of your age? Thanx a lot!
DM
dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/3090
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 10:11:02 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
At 11.35 30/08/97 +0200, Martin and Peter wrote:
>DM wrote:
>> Like to convert novels
>>and movies into D&D adventures (and i've successfully done 3-4 so far)
>Which one? Can you tell us?
OK here it is:
Novels:
- -The Skin Trade (by J.R.R Martin): a gothic adventure with werewolves and a
thing that hunts werewolves. The best one so far ever played.
- -Imajica (by Clive Barker): a high fantasy outer planar adventure that could
change the face of the Multiverse (nobody knows if for the better or the
worse). It can be played as a Companion or even Immortal adventure. It has
not been played yet, but i will in the following months.
- -a short story by C. Barker (don't remember the title) involving a devil
swine. I played only the first part, the second is scheduled for October.
- -The Dark Tower Series (by Stephen King): it's a huge campaign i'm currently
playing (the players don't suspect it, however) and it involves the Old
Ones, the Dark Powers and a Dark Tower at the center of all Dimensions. If
the players do it right, they can win their immortality... but not all will
become Old Ones... (i'm carrying out this project together with Diego
Calugi, who has contributed with many good ideas especially drawn from Isaac
Asimov's books)
Movies:
- -Evil Dead: the haunted house theme. PLayed in Darokin (Borderlands near
Atruaghin) as an Expert-Companion adventure (two sessions). A bit gore but
pretty nice. Only one of the two players made it out of there...
- -The Usual Suspects: a gangster (wizard) story involving my own "Keyser
Souze", that is Mr. G. It has yet to be played but i've already detailed it:
i won't reveal anything more out of fear of spoiling it.
- -Field of Dreams: a moving story of ghosts and beloved ones that return from
the death. I will play it next week but it's basically all ROLE PLAY with no
fight whatsoever (don't know how my players will react).
I don't remember other adaptations in this moment. If i have others, i'll
let you know. As for the plots, if i have time i will put them in my
website, i swear. 8)
DM
dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/3090
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 11:55:29 +0000
From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de
Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Dark Towers (was A List Survey)
> At Sat, 6 Sep 1997 10:11:02 +0200, DM wrote:
refering to transfering books and movies into adventures:
> -The Dark Tower Series (by Stephen King): it's a huge campaign i'm currently
> playing (the players don't suspect it, however) and it involves the Old
> Ones, the Dark Powers and a Dark Tower at the center of all Dimensions. If
> the players do it right, they can win their immortality... but not all will
> become Old Ones... (i'm carrying out this project together with Diego
> Calugi, who has contributed with many good ideas especially drawn from Isaac
> Asimov's books)
If you talk of Old Ones then you should read the ORIGINAL!
H.P.Lovecraft by far better than King in this special area of
interest. Try it! I´m DMing CoC for a very long time and therefore I
think I can make this statement.
No flames. I didn´t say King is not good!!
CU, Wizzard
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 11:53:49 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] The Dark Towers (was A List Survey)
At 11.55 06/09/97 +0000, wizzard wrote:
>
>If you talk of Old Ones then you should read the ORIGINAL!
>
>H.P.Lovecraft by far better than King in this special area of
>interest. Try it! I´m DMing CoC for a very long time and therefore I
>think I can make this statement.
Well, i read everything HPL wrote (except his letters and selected poems),
but the Old Ones in my campaign are not HPL's ones (or are they?? who knows
really..) Well, with this adventure the players will finally catch a glimpse
on the real nature of the Old Ones, possibly becoming Old Ones themselves...
I only took from King the idea of the Dark Tower being a place that is
connected to every dimension, plane and reality existing: he never talks
about Old Ones. And for that matter, HPL's talks about Great Old Ones and
Elder Ones: i've never heard about Old Ones...
As a side note: i LOVE playing CoC (unfortunately, we don't play it
frequently these days... my master prefers playing D&D under my patronage
*sigh*)
And if u like AD&D and CoC, try Masque of the Red Death campaign
DM
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 19:34:42 +0200
From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Valerya's idea
Hi!
> And for those of you who have not done it yet, could you please state your
>birth date instead of your age? Thanx a lot!
Birthdate: 11.12.70
Other interests: Math, Computergaming (Nearly all sorts), E-Mail & Internet,
Ballgames (Volleyball, Soccer, Football), StarTrek, Movies, RPG: some of our
own devisted games (StarTrek, etc..), AD&D:FR;
************************************************************
Peter Balazs
Wurlitzerg. 37/12
1160 Wien
0222/4816030
a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at
pbalazs@radon.mat.univie.ac.at
http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 14:13:13 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Smash Maneuver
At 01.16 05/09/97 PDT, Davide Bucci wrote:
>
>I think fighters should be able to do 1 smash for every attack they've
>got and then lost 2 fatigue points for every smash....
>Give your fighters only a smash attack per round could "cut the legs" to
>your poor fighter character...
>
Aren't you one of DM's players? :-)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 17:22:52 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
At 13.11 05/09/97 MET, Sven Munther wrote:
>Interests: Glantry, future of the Alfheim people (esp. the king, clan
>leaders, other VIPs)
I'm working on the future of Shadow Elves and I must say that we've great
plans for Alfheim people and leaders.
You'll start to see something in 1015 AC Almanac, but there will be more in
1016...
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com
DM in City Of The Stars - PC in the Forgotten Realms
Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 11:08:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
Oh well, here I go----
Name: Alex Benson
Email: Alex295@aol.com
From: North Augusta, SC USA
Interests: Alphatia (still ticked off about the sinking), Davania, and
Karameikos
Working on: Davania, Alphatia in HW, Cadre (ancestors of Alphatians planning
on migrating to Mystara; long story), and "present day links to Blackmoor
Civilization.
Age: 25 (26 in October)
Profession: Quality inspector at a textile finishing plant (Its a job)
Website:None
Marital status: Single
Started playing RPGs: 12-13
First played D&D: Back when Mystara had no name.
Other Notes: Was out of RPGs for a long time. Returned about two years ago.
About the same time Mystara was cancelled. Name d'Ambreville on Mystara
product hooked me. Remembered it from old Castle Amber adventure. First
Mystara product purchased after returning to the fold was WotI. Then DotE.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 12:10:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ray Brooks <rabrooks@bg1.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Valerya's idea
> And for those of you who have not done it yet, could you please state your
> birth date instead of your age? Thanx a lot!
Here you go.
August 3, 1972
ray
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 16:05:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: RLaRue@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
Greetings!
Here's my info:
Name: Rick La Rue
Age: 28 (9/16/68) (I’ll be 29 in a few days)
Email: RLaRue@aol.com
From: New Hampshire, USA
I played D&D from: 1980-81 (I don’t play anymore)
I play AD&D since: 1980+
Interest: Karameikos, converting D&D stuff to AD&D 2nd Ed.
Website: http://members.aol.com/rlarue/index.html
Currently: Computer Systems Specialist
Hobbies: Camping, Hiking, Canoeing, Kayaking, Computers, Comics, RPGs and
writing.
Rick (the lurker below)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 13:14:13 -0700
From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" <strawberry@jamm.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Valerya's idea
DM:
At 09:50 AM 9/6/97 +0200, you wrote:
> And for those of you who have not done it yet, could you please state your
>birth date instead of your age? Thanx a lot!
Just to make things more consistant then:
Birth Date: Mar-15-1968
Other Interests: Web Site Design, Things "Ocult" (Tarot, Runes, etc),
and Creative Writing
;-)
Jenni
- -=> strawberryJAMM <=-
- --
Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs
strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/
<------------------------------------------------------------------>
God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman.
Then God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!"
And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 16:39:40 -0400
From: Craig & Stephanie Miller <sarmanda@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Valerya's idea
Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote:
>
> DM:
>
> At 09:50 AM 9/6/97 +0200, you wrote:
> > And for those of you who have not done it yet, could you please state your
> >birth date instead of your age? Thanx a lot!
>
Mine is March 24,1971 :)
- --
Lady Sarmanda
Mistress of Sarmanda's Castle
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/2465
Come and vist my Castle and contribute your ideas to my RPG Archive.
All comments and suggestions are welcomed.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 11:53:21 -0700
From: "Dennis" <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
Alright, now that I finally have a little spare time again:
Name: Patrick D. Sullivan
Email: Dennis.Sullivan.Family@WorldNet.att.net, ScarletBlue@hotmail.com
From: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Interests: Pretty much everything Mystara-related, particularly the
activities of the immortals. I am currently running several campaigns
scattered around Mystara.
Birthdate: December 14, 1979
Profession: Student
Started playing RPGs & D&D: when I was about 8 I first played with my
cousins. Soon after, I got the Red Box and the games have been slowly
getting better as I and my players grow older.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 14:25:50 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Gothic Horror and Karameikos
On Sat, 6 Sep 1997, Leroy Van Camp III wrote:
> Nice to see someone with some of the same ideas I have. Since
> getting into Mystara I have always played up the gothic horror aspect
> of the Karameikian countryside and small towns.
> One if these days I am going to play with a group hasn't been through
> the original Ravenloft module and have them pay a little visit to
> Koriszegy keep...
I've always been inclined to run a gothic horror/Ravenloft/Call of
Cthulhu type campaign like that in Boldavia, in Glantri, myself... :)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 16:18:28 +0100
From: "Leroy Van Camp III" <malacoda@lesbois.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Gothic Horror and Karameikos
Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One meandered fecklessly
> I've always been inclined to run a gothic horror/Ravenloft/Call of
> Cthulhu type campaign like that in Boldavia, in Glantri, myself... :)
Actually, I have a tendency to put something Cthulhuesque into
everything I GM, if even only a small part.
Leroy Van Camp III
malacoda@lesbois.com
owner-mystara-l@io.com
"You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle."
MST3K
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 18:06:28 -0500
From: Dion & Anna Cautrell <cautrell@poetic.com>
Subject: [Mystara] A List Survey
My turn. . .
Name: Dion Cautrell
DOB: 12/17/72 (24 years old)
Marital Status: Married (5/23/93)
Profession: English Teacher, University of Nebraska at Kearney
First Played D&D: Spring 1982 (9 years old)
First Played AD&D: Fall 1982 (9 years old)
Role-playing Interests: the House d'Amberville and New Averoigne (AKA
Sylaire), the DA series of modules, the five "color-coded" boxed sets (Basic
through Immortal)
Other Interests: Poetry of the Romantic Period, Black-and-white and/or
Foreign Films, Writing (poetry), Music (a little of everything)
E-mail: cautrell@poetic.com, cautrelld@platte.unk.edu,
Cantrell@digitalis.net, trouveur@geocities.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 06:03:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Valerya's idea
In a message dated 97-09-06 12:28:42 EDT, you write:
<< And for those of you who have not done it yet, could you please state
your
birth date instead of your age? Thanx a lot! >>
October 8, 1971
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 06:18:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
In a message dated 97-09-06 11:22:26 EDT, you write:
<< Oh well, here I go----
Name: Alex Benson
Email: Alex295@aol.com
From: North Augusta, SC USA
Interests: Alphatia (still ticked off about the sinking), Davania, and
Karameikos
Working on: Davania, Alphatia in HW, Cadre (ancestors of Alphatians
planning
on migrating to Mystara; long story), and "present day links to Blackmoor
Civilization.
Age: 25 (26 in October)
Profession: Quality inspector at a textile finishing plant (Its a job)
Website:None
Marital status: Single
Started playing RPGs: 12-13
First played D&D: Back when Mystara had no name.
Other Notes: Was out of RPGs for a long time. Returned about two years ago.
About the same time Mystara was cancelled. Name d'Ambreville on Mystara
product hooked me. Remembered it from old Castle Amber adventure. First
Mystara product purchased after returning to the fold was WotI. Then DotE.>>
Left out some things-
Birthdate is 10/8/71
Non-gaming interests: Military history and machines (mainly WW2). Playing on
the computer. 1/35th scale military models. Archery (since six years old).
Hunting. Fishing (both casting and fly rod).
Rarely play D&D or AD&D anymore. Most of the old group has moved off. More
interested in campaign and setting developement.
Though my primary interests are in the Mystara Setting, I do enjoy the
Ravenloft Setting. RL has carried over into Mystara Setting.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 07:22:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Spells
In a message dated 97-09-02 13:26:54 EDT, you write:
<< > Fellows, I think You are being too narrowminded here.
> I admit, that the basic descriptions of spells give
> only one way how the spells work, but I dont think
> that is so. There should be variations in the spells,
> if not for other reasons, then just to give some
> colour to the game. I think it is even hinted so in
> the Glantri cazzetteer somewhere.
>>
I agree. I have always felt that spells differ from caster to caster.
Alignments, schools, nationality, nature of the caster, etc should all
contribute to the form that a spell takes. Such variations should be minor.
Magic projectiles with a different shape and hue. The ways the spells
manifest themselves are also ideal ways to make changes. However, the spell
effects should not change.
Besides being logical, such variations make for better gaming. It'll also
keep the PCs on their toes.
Below is a broad and general stereotypical example based on nationality
alone.
It has always been my opinion that a Glantrian mage takes longer to cast a
spell. This is due to the Glantrian tradition of being elaborate in their
casting. In return for this longer casting period, Glantrian spells are more
impressive to the eye.
Now take an Alphatian Mage. Alphatians see magic as a part of life; as simple
and taken for granted as breathing. Alphatian mages are not ones to dwell on
the eye quality of their spells. They are more interested in the spell taking
effect. Not to say that Alphatians are not impressed by novel uses of magic.
They are. However, they know when to be flashy and when to be smart.
Festivals, parties, and exhibitions may call for flash. But duels and warfare
don't. In short, the Alphatians are more practical with their magic.
Just my humble opinion,
Alex
who tends to favor Alphations
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 07:42:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Spells
In a message dated 97-09-01 10:14:24 EDT, you write:
<< > One of my players has an interesting question for all of you:
> > if I cast a spell on someone asleep and the spell allows a saving throw,
> > does that person get his saving throw or not (because he's asleep)?
> >>
Rereading the messages, I found that I had not made something clear.
A sleeping PC getting a Save depends greatly on the type of sleep he is in.
Natural sleep I would allow a Save with some penalty depending on the attack
and class of the PC.
Magically induced sleep (Sleep Spell) is a different matter. The dozing PC
has already failed one such Save. Any futher magical attack would be based on
the same spell caster's power. Any Save that might be given should be heavily
penalized.
It has always been my opinion that the DMs role was to be a mediator not
executioner. You have to have some leeway to keep a balanced game.
As for Paralysis, I will suggest that the affected PC make an Int Check to
see if he remembers what transpired while he was under the spell's effect.
Might even want to expand this out to see which senses (sight, smell,
hearing, touch, and taste) are blocked along with motor function. Total
paralysis is not possible. To do so would stop the neurological impulses that
allow the PC to live (heartbeat, lungs).
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 11:46:33 -0400
From: 95390525@callisto.si.usherb.ca
Subject: [Mystara] A List Survey
Hello Jennifer,
Name: Eric Guindon
Email: 95390525@callisto.si.usherb.ca
From: Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada
Interests: Glantry, Thyatis, Immortals, anything else
Age: 28
Profession: Student in communication, I'm already a sociologist.
Website: not yet, actually working on it... you'll know as soon as it's out....
Marital status: Unmarried
Started playing RPGs: about 14 years ago...
First played D&D: D&D, Call of Chtullu and Stormbringer.
Working on: I'm actually working on a RPG club at the Sherbrooke
university... I'm also working on my campaing...
Bye
Eric
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 12:25:12 -0400
From: 95390525@callisto.si.usherb.ca
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Valerya's idea
<< And for those of you who have not done it yet, could you please state your
> birth date instead of your age? Thanx a lot! >>
Here's mine:
June 4th 1969
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 18:59:46 +0200
From: Deathwatch <deathw@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Valerya's idea
At 12:25 7-09-97 -0400, you wrote:
<< And for those of you who have not done it yet, could you please state your
>> birth date instead of your age? Thanx a lot! >>
I'm not sure if I put it in my answer:
30-01-1979
Playing RPGs for 5 years now
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:34:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Oard/Beagle/Emerondian theory
In a message dated 97-09-05 09:34:56 EDT, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes:
<< In any case I'm not a big ST-fan. More of a B5'er if anything.
any Vorlons out there? >>
We are all Vorlons....
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 17:22:27 -0400
From: wjnowackl@MEM.po.com
Subject: [Mystara] Some (hopefully) new topics
I'm brand new to this list so if these topics have been discussed don't
flame me, just tell me which digest(s) there discussed in.
1. Psionics in Mystara
Does Psionics exist?
If so, who's using them?
2. Undersea (from PC3)
What's going on?(history after AC 1000)
Aaron Nowack
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 18:15:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Some (hopefully) new topics
>I'm brand new to this list so if these topics have been discussed don't
>flame me, just tell me which digest(s) there discussed in.
<smile> You don't have to worry very much about re-discussing topics on
this list, Aaron. Such threads take up, oh, at least half of the traffic,
usually. :)
> 1. Psionics in Mystara
> Does Psionics exist?
In oD&D, no (unless the GM wants to add them). In AD&D2, yes (unless the
GM wants to subtract them).
> If so, who's using them?
The only people I know for certain are those on the Savage Coast who are
affected by the Red Curse, and have a "Wild Psionic Talent" instead of one
of the ordinary powers. (That is, assuming the GM permits psionics.)
> 2. Undersea (from PC3)
> What's going on?(history after AC 1000)
Um... to be honest, I have no idea. There's really been nothing published
about Undersea, since PC3. This is a /very/ good question, though, what
with Alphatia now open for exploration by Tritons, Merrow, and the rest of
the water-dwelling species. You have to wonder about the Behemoth, too...
there was that (successful) expedition to find the Alphatian Centre for
Disease Control.
Anybody else care to suggest anything?
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
Unofficial Official Keeper of the Unofficial Official Timeline of Mystara
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 18:25:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Some (hopefully) new topics
In a message dated 97-09-07 17:34:22 EDT, wjnowackl@MEM.po.com writes:
<< 1. Psionics in Mystara
Does Psionics exist?
If so, who's using them?>>
Officially, psionics exist only along the Savage Coast, perhaps as variant
"Legacies" of the Red Curse.
<< 2. Undersea (from PC3)
What's going on?(history after AC 1000) >>
No official information is available.
Of course, there has been a great deal of "unofficial" discussion of both
topics.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 00:58:12 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Some (hopefully) new topics
At 17.22 07/09/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
> 2. Undersea (from PC3)
> What's going on?(history after AC 1000)
>
I think the net-almanac thing is working on something here for 1015 AC, but
I'm not sure...
- --------------
Fabrizio Paoli
brizio@lunet.it
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
- --------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 11:33:34 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Some (hopefully) new topics
On Sun, 7 Sep 1997, Daniel Boese wrote:
> >I'm brand new to this list so if these topics have been discussed don't
> >flame me, just tell me which digest(s) there discussed in.
>
> <smile> You don't have to worry very much about re-discussing topics on
> this list, Aaron. Such threads take up, oh, at least half of the traffic,
> usually. :)
>
> > 1. Psionics in Mystara
> > Does Psionics exist?
>
> In oD&D, no (unless the GM wants to add them). In AD&D2, yes (unless the
> GM wants to subtract them).
>
> > If so, who's using them?
IMC using GURPS, I use Psionicists where the Mystics would be. The Same
could be done in AD&D and is IMO the best way to incorporate Psionics into
the Setting. Mystics are in this case Monks who know martial arts and have
discovered powers deep within their minds. They exist in the Mountains of
Glantri and the plains of Thothia.
Someone on this list mentioned a Mystic Monastery in the Mountains between
Karameikos and Darokin which is funny because at the end of my D&D
Campaign, one of the PC's, a Mystic, set out into that region to make
himself a monastery. Creepy eh? anyway, there must be something out there.
> The only people I know for certain are those on the Savage Coast who are
> affected by the Red Curse, and have a "Wild Psionic Talent" instead of one
> of the ordinary powers. (That is, assuming the GM permits psionics.)
There are many mentions of Psionics in the Red Steel Box, but litle of
where they exist..
>
> > 2. Undersea (from PC3)
> > What's going on?(history after AC 1000)
>
> Um... to be honest, I have no idea. There's really been nothing published
> about Undersea, since PC3. This is a /very/ good question, though, what
> with Alphatia now open for exploration by Tritons, Merrow, and the rest of
> the water-dwelling species. You have to wonder about the Behemoth, too...
> there was that (successful) expedition to find the Alphatian Centre for
> Disease Control.
> Anybody else care to suggest anything?
Wasn't it mentioned that there was a great increase in undead down there?
Other than that I dont know much about it..
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 13:33:52 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: [Mystara] TotC
Tale of The Comet.
What is it? Its In my local store and I was wondering whether I should buy
it or save the money.
Any advice?
Havard.
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 08:00:38 EDT
From: Neal Daskal <URND@MARISTC.MARIST.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Gothic Horror and Karameikos
> One if these days I am going to play with a group hasn't been through
>the original Ravenloft module and have them pay a little visit to
>Koriszegy keep...
sadist
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 08:17:02 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Spells
On Sun, 7 Sep 1997 Alex295@aol.com wrote:
> It has always been my opinion that a Glantrian mage takes longer to cast a
> spell. This is due to the Glantrian tradition of being elaborate in their
> casting. In return for this longer casting period, Glantrian spells are more
> impressive to the eye.
Even an Alphatian-Glantrian? Such as from, say, Blackhill (before it was
destroyed)? ;)
I do agree with you, though, that different casters, from different
regions and schools would likely have different (sometimes vastly
different) styles.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 08:26:35 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Some (hopefully) new topics
On Sun, 7 Sep 1997, Daniel Boese wrote:
> > 1. Psionics in Mystara
> > Does Psionics exist?
> > If so, who's using them?
>
> The only people I know for certain are those on the Savage Coast who are
> affected by the Red Curse, and have a "Wild Psionic Talent" instead of one
> of the ordinary powers. (That is, assuming the GM permits psionics.)
One could also make a precedent for the Yavdlom people (at least certain
prophets) having Psionics. And the Kopru would be a good candidate for
having them.
Heck, I could even see the Neh-Thalggu (Brain Collectors) having them.
IMO, it makes slightly more sense than them getting Magic User spells
from collecting brains. Or maybe they could get a combination (ie, spells
from the brains of mages; psionics from other brains).
>
> > 2. Undersea (from PC3)
> > What's going on?(history after AC 1000)
>
> Um... to be honest, I have no idea. There's really been nothing published
> about Undersea, since PC3. This is a /very/ good question, though, what
> with Alphatia now open for exploration by Tritons, Merrow, and the rest of
> the water-dwelling species. You have to wonder about the Behemoth, too...
> there was that (successful) expedition to find the Alphatian Centre for
> Disease Control.
> Anybody else care to suggest anything?
I know there was a Merrow war in the making in last year's almanac-
though I don't recall if it was the Twaelar Merrow (down near the
Thanegioth Archipelago), or the Undersea Merrow that were involved (I
think it was the former).
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 08:34:10 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Some (hopefully) new topics
On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote:
> IMC using GURPS, I use Psionicists where the Mystics would be. The Same
> could be done in AD&D and is IMO the best way to incorporate Psionics into
> the Setting. Mystics are in this case Monks who know martial arts and have
> discovered powers deep within their minds. They exist in the Mountains of
> Glantri and the plains of Thothia.
That's an interesting variant, and one I hadn't ever heard of before.
Certainly a precedent can be made for it, though.
> Someone on this list mentioned a Mystic Monastery in the Mountains between
> Karameikos and Darokin which is funny because at the end of my D&D
> Campaign, one of the PC's, a Mystic, set out into that region to make
> himself a monastery. Creepy eh? anyway, there must be something out there.
I think that was me. One of my players ran a Mystic once, and, as I was
running B1-9, I placed his cloister to the northeast of Threshold. They
were a direct transplant of Ochalean mystics seeking freedom from
oppressive Thyatians.
Another thing I was going to do was allow his Mystic to advance beyond
16th level, a rare event. He would have had to seek out the very few
masters to surpass that level, in remote locations of the world, in order
to continue his training. Fortunately and unfortunately, he never made it
that high in level. Fortunately, because I was never able to balance the
Mystic's high level powers to my satisfaction with the other classes;
unfortunately, because I thought it would be interesting.
I thought that it might make a good balance to adapt the Oriental
Adventures rules for Monks for D&D Mystics, but I never owned the OA
book to do so (I just borrowed it from a player, but never for any length
of time sufficient to adapt it). I wanted to try to balance out the
Mystic's powerful higher level abilities with the other classes. Anyone
else have any luck doing something similar?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 18:27:46 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Some (hopefully) new topics
On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote:
>
> > Someone on this list mentioned a Mystic Monastery in the Mountains between
> > Karameikos and Darokin which is funny because at the end of my D&D
> > Campaign, one of the PC's, a Mystic, set out into that region to make
> > himself a monastery. Creepy eh? anyway, there must be something out there.
>
> I think that was me. One of my players ran a Mystic once, and, as I was
> running B1-9, I placed his cloister to the northeast of Threshold. They
> were a direct transplant of Ochalean mystics seeking freedom from
> oppressive Thyatians.
Ah, I had it in western Karameikos. still, close enough.
>
> I thought that it might make a good balance to adapt the Oriental
> Adventures rules for Monks for D&D Mystics, but I never owned the OA
> book to do so (I just borrowed it from a player, but never for any length
> of time sufficient to adapt it). I wanted to try to balance out the
> Mystic's powerful higher level abilities with the other classes. Anyone
> else have any luck doing something similar?
I used the 36level conversion of the Cyclopedia. Aslo I changed the
Martial Arts system. Rather than using what was described I made a
fighting style as a variant of boxing, using the Weapon Mastery System.
That reduces their power considerably.
- ---
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 09:37:47 -0700
From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" <strawberry@jamm.com>
Subject: Spell Casting Styles [Was Re: [Mystara] Spells]
At 08:17 AM 9/8/97 -0700, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote:
>On Sun, 7 Sep 1997 Alex295@aol.com wrote:
>> It has always been my opinion that a Glantrian mage takes longer to cast a
>> spell. This is due to the Glantrian tradition of being elaborate in their
>> casting. In return for this longer casting period, Glantrian spells are
more
>> impressive to the eye.
>[...]
>
>I do agree with you, though, that different casters, from different
>regions and schools would likely have different (sometimes vastly
>different) styles.
In our campaigns, we also believe that different casters have different
spell casting styles. We play that the style is embeded in the
"instructions" as developed by the mage who originally researched that
spell. Depending on where you learned the spell, or where the owner of the
spell book you happened upon learned the spell, or who it was that
developed this particular version of the spell, the movements and
associated mutterings are different.
This adds significant flavour to the game -- if you have a spell that the
DM has described as using boistrious and flamboyant actions, and produces a
puff of smoke upon completion, it does make it difficult to do it in
secret. Or, if you have a spell that uses small, delicate movements, it
would be difficult doing it in a way that would impress onlookers (which is
sometimes desireable).
I have a MU from Minrothad who once wanted protect herself with her
sheild spell while avoiding the seething mass of a rebelious crowd.
Because my notes claimed this particular spell used small, constrained
movements, and I was up against a wall rather than in the middle of the
crush, the DM allowed her to make a dex check to get it off successfully.
However, if it hadn't been defined as having small movements, the DM (quite
fairly) wouldn't have given her a chance.
The only problem we've really encountered with this is coming up with
suitably different descriptions -- after a while you start to run short on
appropriate adjectives :-)
I was thinking that in AD&D spells are frequently defined as having
different somatic and verbal components, as well as taking more or less
time (in segments I believe -- its been a while). Our little practice fits
in even better with that idea than it does in OD&D.
Jenni
- -=> strawberryJAMM <=-
- --
Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html
- -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 09:48:03 -0700
From: "David 'Azure' Leland" <dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Some (hopefully) new topics
At 08:34 AM 9/8/97 -0700, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote:
>On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote:
>> Someone on this list mentioned a Mystic Monastery in the Mountains between
>> Karameikos and Darokin which is funny because at the end of my D&D
>> Campaign, one of the PC's, a Mystic, set out into that region to make
>> himself a monastery. Creepy eh? anyway, there must be something out there.
>
>I think that was me. One of my players ran a Mystic once, and, as I was
>running B1-9, I placed his cloister to the northeast of Threshold. They
>were a direct transplant of Ochalean mystics seeking freedom from
>oppressive Thyatians.
I believe the referred mention was mine. In my bio posted a couple of
days ago I included in my list of interests, "a Mystic cloister at the
Karameikos/Darokin border." Funny, though, that it seems now that THREE of
us have put this place on the map. Mine is in fact NE of Threshold, and
east of Duke's/King's Road Keep.
I'd like to hear the story of both of your (Haavard, Cthuludrew)
cloisters, if you don't mind. Maybe I can use them in figuring the origin
of the cloister IMC, which has remained unspecified.
Thanks :)
/ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ \
: David "Azure" Leland ~|~ dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu :
| UCSD Cognitive Science ~|~ Phone/Fax: (619) 642-6709 |
: Graduate Research Fellow ~|~ http://cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland :
\ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ /
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V2 #134
*****************************
From: owner-mystara-digest@ (mystara-digest)
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #135
Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
Sender: owner-mystara-digest@
Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@
Precedence: bulk
mystara-digest Tuesday, September 9 1997 Volume 02 : Number 135
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 19:09:45 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Oard/Beagle/Emerondian theory
On Fri, 5 Sep 1997, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Sep 1997, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote:
>
> > you've been working on the Second Moon. Maybe they have or will have some
> > encounter from the Pyrithians?
>
> As I have it now, they have. Check out the entry for Rajahstan that I
> have done- I've got the Pyrithian slavers that eventually became the
> Emerondians being responsible (at least in part) for bringing the Rakasta
> to Mystara.
Oh yeah. Reread it now.
Anyway, do you know y'onn Y'ozz or whatever his name is?
He is a green skinned detective from Mars. He is a DC comincs character.
His powers include flight and super strenght. He is vulnerable to fire.
Where am I going with this?
Well there were these green skinned aliens. Maybe they could have some of
this? Super powers seem a bit wild, but, fear of fire would be nice. If
anyone knows more about this guy we could use him for inspiration
Speaking of Comics. Marvel Universe has some space cultures that I found
intrigueing while reading Xmen at a younger age. Shi-ar and those guys.
well, nuff about comics on my account..
haavard.
- --
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 13:27:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] TotC
>Tale of The Comet.
>What is it? Its In my local store and I was wondering whether I should buy
>it or save the money.
>Any advice?
Tale of the Comet.
An alien spaceship crashes on a fantastic/medieval-type world. A
borg-like AI is in a war with a previously-peaceful spacefaring race.
If you have DA3: City of the Gods, you have a fairly similar adventure
set in Blackmoor; TotC has its own take on the universe, though it can be
imported to Mystara with little difficulty. The main difficulty I've seen
mentioned is that it completely ignores the Spelljammer setting in favour
of more 'real-world' physics.
There was some discussion about TotC in rec.games.frp.dnd a week or two
ago - you might want to look it up in DejaNews.
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 19:51:36 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Some (hopefully) new topics
On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, David 'Azure' Leland wrote:
On the matter of Mystic Monasteries
> I believe the referred mention was mine. In my bio posted a couple of
> days ago I included in my list of interests, "a Mystic cloister at the
> Karameikos/Darokin border." Funny, though, that it seems now that THREE of
> us have put this place on the map. Mine is in fact NE of Threshold, and
> east of Duke's/King's Road Keep.
> I'd like to hear the story of both of your (Haavard, Cthuludrew)
> cloisters, if you don't mind. Maybe I can use them in figuring the origin
> of the cloister IMC, which has remained unspecified.
Not much I can tell you. the PC was more known for his winged boots rather
than his personality. He was helping Filur the nasty Dwarf getting rid of
monsters in the region. Filur was clearing the region to build a
stronghold there, but failed and gave up. However, the Mystic set out to
build a monastery further up in the mountains. Noone has heard from him
since that day..
This was in AC1010 actually. It would probably be better to establish it
as an older monastery. My PC was from Alphatia. One Idea could be to have
thothian settlers setablish it carrying with them their ancient
traditions..
some ideas..
see ya later..
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 11:26:01 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Some (hopefully) new topics
On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, David 'Azure' Leland wrote:
> I'd like to hear the story of both of your (Haavard, Cthuludrew)
> cloisters, if you don't mind. Maybe I can use them in figuring the origin
> of the cloister IMC, which has remained unspecified.
Mine was pretty much as described. I put it there mainly just to help
explain the PC Mystic's presence in Karameikos (after we ran Rahasia as a
one-shot, we decided to expand into a full blown campaign with the same
characters, and we needed some back story). I just sort of described the
lead Mystic as an Ochalean ex-patriate who had opened his cloister in the
relatively independent realm of Karameikos (sometime fairly recently-
probably c. 980/990 AC).
The PC Mystic (who was also fleeing from persecution in Ochalea- some
corrupt Thyatian officials; it was a big mess), was acquainted with the
Mystic who ran the cloister (he was a friend of the poor boy's family).
He took him in and helped him with his training, and trying to help him
attain justice for the crimes he was wrongfully persecuted for.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 21:46:13 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Mystic cloisters
Where did TSR put "official" cloisters ?
IIRC there're several cloisters in Sind, 1 in Glantri and 1 in Minrothad.
Do I forget some?
- --------------
Fabrizio Paoli
brizio@lunet.it
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
- --------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 16:23:23 +0100
From: Thorfinn Tait <Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Vanya and Storm Soldiers
On Thu, 28 Aug 1997 Patrick <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:
>Indeed, I also use the "gentler" concept of the Heldannic Knights, while
>the Storm Soldiers are the true bigots. I prefer to believe that even the
>Storm Soldiers follow Vanya on some level, but that they mostly just pay
>her lip-service. They are corrupted by entropy (perhaps Orcus and
>Thanatos), but they have not abandoned their immortal, Vanya. They are
>indeed sexist, but this does not completely preclude them from following a
>female immortal.
I agree with all you say here Patrick. In fact, it would be very easy
for the Storm Soldiers to worship Vanya and believe/claim that she is
actually a male Immortal, and that her other followers are the ones who
have been decieved. Since they are a xenophobic hate-organisation, they
will not listen to outsiders on this subject, nor will they tolerate
opinions to the contrary.
This could be the result of Thanatos's meddling, or perhaps just a prank
of Rathanos or some other anti-female Immortal. And while Vanya might
be annoyed, if she were to reveal the truth to these followers who (at
least in theory) are faithful to her, she would lose them.
But I also like your idea that the Storm Soldiers aren't really true
worshippers of Vanya, usually only following the letter of her laws and
ideals rather than the spirit. This is somewhat similar to how I
portray them in my Karameikos campaign, where they are the treacherous,
underhanded villains.
Thorf.
=========================================
"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."
- Bilbo Baggins, "The Lord of the Rings"
Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk
Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline
=========================================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 13:35:35 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic cloisters
On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, Fabrizio Paoli wrote:
> Where did TSR put "official" cloisters ?
> IIRC there're several cloisters in Sind, 1 in Glantri and 1 in Minrothad.
> Do I forget some?
You touched on most of them, I think. The Sindhi mystics, Lhamsa in
Glantri's Alps, the Green Isle cloister in Minrothad (I think that's the
name of it).
You might consider the White Isle monastery in Ierendi to be a cloister,
albeit with deranged mystic caretakers. I'm sure there are some in
Thothia (whose philosophy is oft described as being more mystic than
clerical). Possibly some monk types in Ethengar.
Oh, and let us not forget Ochalea and Myoshima (Ochalea being China and
Myoshima being Japan- there are ninja Rakasta in one of the Princess Ark
articles).
Oh, and the mystic fighting Tortles of Dunwick, on the Savage Coast.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 18:13:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Magesmiley@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Some (hopefully) new topics
I had a suggestion for a place for psionics in the campaign... the Hin
Masters (see the Five Shires Gazeteer) might make a good place for the
psionicist class, but of course this would restrict the psionicist class to
the halflings (which I personally like the idea of, it gives something to the
halfling race which is unique). As an afterthought on this idea I suppose
it would also mean that the Gentle Folk Elves of the Hollow World would have
psioinicists among them (who the Hin learned the it from).
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 18:23:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Magesmiley@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic cloisters
Thothia in the Isle of Dawn definitely has mystics there (and a result the
cloisters as well) if you can pick up a copy of the old module M5 Talons of
Night it might br more enlightening than me trying to remember more.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:54:13 +1000
From: "Shane" <sleep@tpgi.com.au>
Subject: [Mystara] Denagoth: Norwold moved 300 miles! And another timeline idea.
Geography:
Returning to one of the areas of the Known World I'm most intrigued
by, today I noticed something strange about my Wrath of the Immortals
maps. So I spread out all the other maps I have that note Denagoth in
relation to nearby countries (these being Wrath, CM1 "Test of the
Warlords" and the various maps in the Poor Wizard's Almanacs).
X11, Saga of the Shadowlords, is set in Wendar and Denagoth. But Map
VII (Continental Overview of Wendar and Denagoth) also shows the
lands to the east and south. On the northeastern-most land of the
map, about 500 miles east of Gereth Minar in northern Denagoth and
about 500 miles north of Freiburg in the Heldann Freeholds, is the
note "To Landfall" next to the trade route that disappears up off the
edge.
Consulting Wrath's maps, however, and then those of the various
Almanacs, I find Landfall is to the *southeast* of Gereth Minar,
roughly 180 miles from Freiburg. Gereth Minar is now almost due west
of Oceansend! Measuring the distances between various towns, it
seems sometime between X11 and Wrath, the entire area of Norwold
moved roughly three hundred miles south.
So I looked at CM1, "Test of the Warlords", which has a map of
Norworld, and found that it doesn't agree with Wrath either. The
volcano CM1 places 72 miles southeasterly of Oceansend is missing in
Wrath's map. The lake due west of Oceansend in CM1 is gone in Wrath;
the river flowing into it on the west side in CM1 is also gone but
the river flowing into it on the east side in CM1 now instead flows
into the longer, larger lake just to the north (entering from the
south). Wrath has Freiburg close enough to Landfall that it should
be visible in CM1's DM Map 2 (it isn't).
Now, I know the 48-miles-per-hex map in Wrath is pretty inaccurate
when it comes to drawing the coastlines and other terrain features,
which are much more clearly visible in the 24-miles-per-hex map that
accompanies it (even given the 2x magnification between them) but
the maps in the Almanacs support it and the general rule is 'go with
the newer material'. I'm just wondering when three hundred miles of
land (plus a large lake and connected river system) vanished. :)
Timeline:
To toss some more wood on the fire of the earlier timeline argument
("when does X11 take place?") I noticed that Kavien the thief, one
of the pre-generated PCs for X11, is described as having been drafted
by the imperial bailiff to help Gylharen; in return for this he will
receive a pardon for his attempted burglary of "the imperial palace
of Thincol the Brave, Emperor of Thyatis".
Now X11 states that it takes place thirty years after Teriak's first
attempted invasion of Wendar, and his forces were defeated through
the use of the Elvenstar which Bensarian gave to Wendar at that time.
Thincol was born in AC 938 and rose to power around AC 960 (Poor
Wizard's Almanac AC 1010, page 157, subsequent almanacs no change).
However according to those same almanacs Gylharen received the
Elvenstar either 200 years ago (Almanacs, Wendar Overview) or around
the Year 900 (Almanacs, Who's Who) by Bensarian so he could save
Wendar from the forces of Denagoth. This contradicts the above.
However if we assume that - since the almanac itself contradicts
itself - neither the Overview nor the Who's Who is correct
concerning when Bensarian gave Gylharen the Elvenstar (either date
places X11 before many of the other Basic and Expert modules
anyway), this now places X11 sometime after AC 960 based on Thincol
the Brave being Emperor at the time of the adventure. Reading X11
again, I noticed an interesting passage:
X11, page 2: "Less than a year ago the star disappeared from
Gylharen's citadel. In the wake of the loss things have gone badly.
The first disaster to befall the realm was a plague. It spread
quickly from the rural outskirts of the state and soon entere the
capital, killing thousands before Gylharen could organise the
necessary effort to end it."
Now in the Wrath campaign, Fall of Year 1009, the second group of
Alfheim elves reach Wendar; the "Glantrian plague follows them
there". This plague is also mentioned in the Almanacs, which further
note that Wendar sought clerical help from Norwold and received it,
containing the plague "before it could do serious harm to his
population". Could this be the same plague? Thincol is alive and
Emperor at this point. The almanacs don't mention an earlier plague.
The X11 plague in Wendar is followed by a serious drought, withering
the crops and depleting the water supply. Gylharen requests the aid
of Thyatis, "but the Emperor was pre-occupied by a crisis of his own
and was unable to lend aid". Instead an advisor hires a small group
of adventurers and sends them instead - the starting point for the
PCs in X11.
AC 1009-1010 is definitely a time of crisis for Thyatis, what with
the Alphatian-Glantrian war, the week of no magic, etcetera. Thincol
certainly doesn't have either supplies or troops to spare for
Wendar, even if they were formal allies rather than simply on
friendly terms (Almanac AC 1010, "rumours that Wendar is a staunch
ally or even a subject nation of Thyatis are false; the two nations
are not even in regular diplomatic contact"; nonetheless those
rumours have to come from somewhere, so I'm assuming friendly if
somewhat informal ties exist).
Therefore while X11 might take place at any time after approximately
AC 960 (Thincol's crowning as Emperor), it seems reasonable to place
it in AC 1009 onwards; the Shadow Lord has taken advantage of the
Glantrian-Alphatian war to have the Elvenstar stolen and amass his
armies, as none of Wendar's allies, formal or otherwise, can spare
troops of their own to help Gylharen protect his nation.
Perhaps events might proceed something like I've written below (there
are some potential spoilers for players of the Wrath of the Immortals
campaign). I'll also note that I liked much of the extensive timeline
Shawn wrote; this timeline below is just my own current pet theory. :)
Gylharen, an elf-mage widely respected in the lands that will become
Wendar for his curbing of humanoid incursions, banditry and other
ills, as well as for his efforts in promoting peace between the
human and elven races, becomes leader of a town named Wendar. (as per
the AC 1010 almanac)
About AC 979, Teriak raises an army in Denagoth to invade Wendar;
the sage Bensarian gives the Elvenstar to Gylharen, and with its help
he repels the invasion. He sets up his own town as the national
capital and invites the other town leaders to pledge loyalty to him
in return for his protection. By the turn of the century, all of the
communities have pledged loyalty to him. (save for the date and the
naming of Teriak, again as per the AC 1010 almanac)
Camla steals the Elvenstar in late Summer of AC 1009, his master
Teriak having begun the insertion of the human mage into Gylharen's
circle of confidants years earlier. Though of course Gylharen
suspects the Shadow Lord, all attempts to locate Camla and the
Elvenstar fail.
Gylharen, his nation's militia already on alert due to the wars,
begins preparations in expectation of an attack from Denagoth. An
experienced adventurer himself, Gylharen might be inclined to enter
Denagoth and retrieve the Elvenstar personally, but the loss of the
artifact has severely handicapped him; he has been greatly aged and
weakened to the extant that he resembles an old man and must rely on
servants even to help him to his throne. No capable heroes he can
trust are immediately available in Wendar, as they are either busy
defending Wendar from the upsurge in humanoid incursions or have left
the nation to throw their lot in with one side or another of the
great conflict. He also wonders if any of the others in his inner
circle of friends might be hidden traitors as well.
The elves arrive in the Fall of AC 1009, bringing the plague with
them. Gylharen cannot send messengers to Thyatis as the intervening
countries are all also subject to the plague, and the Alphatian
armies are in Thyatis anyway; if any are sent, they aren't heard
from again. Gylharen instead turns to Norwold for help; by the time
the elves are confined to southwest Wendar and sufficient clerical
aid arrives, winter is fast encroaching. With both Wendar and
Denagoth about to be completely buried in snow (more than usual due
to the upheaval in the planetary weather patterns caused by the
destruction of the Alphatian landmass), there will be no invasion
until spring. If there's any silver lining to the plague, it is that
there is enough food for the survivors to last through the bitter
cold of winter. (plague, source of clerical aid and destruction of
Alphatia as per almanac and Wrath timelines)
Spring arrives, bringing with it a terrible drought caused by the
altered weather patterns. While this also affects Denagoth, the
mountain range ringing most of the plateau acts as a buffering
influence, and the Shadow Lord's forces begin amassing. While Teriak
has had little success in his efforts to pierce the secrets of the
Elvenstar, he has no fear of the crippled Gylharen and his drought
stricken nation, nor the possibility of Gylharen finding allies. New
conflicts are breaking out throughout the Known World as nations vie
for their piece of the new order, while the few neutral nations
aren't close enough or safe enough to Wendar to help anyway.
However, possibly through the help of one of the Norwold clerics,
Gylharen has been able to ascertain that the Elvenstar is indeed in
Denagoth and in the hands of Teriak; the moment the spring thaw hits,
messengers are once again sent out. Even as summer approaches and
Teriak's armies ready for the invasion, a small but hardy band of
adventurers are entering the gates of Wendar...
Any holes?
- --
Shane (sleep at tpgi.com.au)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 19:37:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic cloisters
Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One pontificated:
>
> You touched on most of them, I think. The Sindhi mystics, Lhamsa in
> Glantri's Alps, the Green Isle cloister in Minrothad (I think that's the
> name of it).
Where were they mentioned?
John YU
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 15:53:17 +0100
From: Thorfinn Tait <Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Portal to Sigil
I'm just catching up on the past two weeks, so sorry this is a little
out of date...
On Mon, 25 Aug 1997 Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no> wrote:
>An imortal cannot use its manifestation or incorporeal forms on the Prime
>Material since that is a violation of the Imortal Law. Both Rad and Ixion
>did this during the showdown at Wrath of the Imortals.
Actually if I remember correctly I think Immortals *can* appear on the
Prime plane in incorporeal form - they very often do in order to appear
in mortals' dreams and appear to their followers and high-level clerics
occasionally. It is only manifestation form which is prohibited.
Thorf.
=========================================
"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."
- Bilbo Baggins, "The Lord of the Rings"
Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk
Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline
=========================================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 19:21:12 -0500
From: "Jess E. Turner" <VVega@pnx.com>
Subject: [Mystara] Newbie ? about which Maps to seek out
Hello,
I'm very new to the list having through recently getting the Dawn of the
Emperors boxed set being inspired to turn again to the world where I first
started roleplaying with others. Although, it was not Mystra when I
started but times change. :)
My ? is about maps. I'm wondering which maps I should seek out. I have
heard the Mystra boxed set contains maps but I'm not sure if they cover
every nation?
I know there are two trail maps, Western and Eastern made for what was
then the D&D world but would they be the best thing to look for since they
are huge and detailed from what I hear?
My chief desire is to have another map beyond the limited one in Dawn's
boxed set, that shows the complete Empire of Thyatis and it's relationship
geographically with other nations.
Does the Mystra boxed set show this? If so, how big is the maps in the
boxed set?
Would the map be in another accessory like the map I hear spoken of in the
Immortal boxed?
I'm not even quite sure yet if The Empire made the jump to Mystra because
as I said the name was different when I last gamed.
Any help/direction would be greatly appreciated. My private Email is below
as I don't want to bore anyone if this has been asked/discussed before.
Thank you very much.
Jess
VVega@pnx.com (note two V's not one W in the Email address)
- ----------------------------------------------------
From childhood's hour, I have not
been as others were.
- ----------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 20:56:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Magesmiley@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Denagoth: Norwold moved 300 miles! And another timeline idea.
I like the timeline.
I also noticed the Norwold/Heldann/Denagoth discrepancy and also noted that
the map discrepancies extend east to the Isle of Dawn as well. It gets worse
than just that, the map from M5 Talons of Night doesn't agree real well with
the maps you've mentioned eitherI've been working on a 8 mile hex map of
Norwold for a while now, and I resolved the conflicting maps somewhat,
making them all somewhat inaccurate (but somewhat correct too). I wrote up a
small piece on some history for Denagoth, which I planned on using at some
point in my campaign, if I find what I did with it I'll post it (it may take
me a while, I've got a lot of stuff I've accumulated over the last 14 years).
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 21:35:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Some (hopefully) new topics
Here is how I handled psionics in my campaign -- I informed my players
that whoever took the psionicist class would be the first known member
of that class in the world. None of my players were up to that challenge,
although there was a child born to one of them who was destined to know
all three paths of power (in other words, to become a
Cleric/Mage/Psionicist).
But the campaign did not last long enough for that child's powers to be
revealed.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 19:42:41 +0100
From: "Leroy Van Camp III" <malacoda@lesbois.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Gothic Horror and Karameikos
Neal Daskal
> > One if these days I am going to play with a group hasn't been
through
> >the original Ravenloft module and have them pay a little visit to
> >Koriszegy keep...
>
> sadist
A real sadist would follow it up with Tomb of Horrors, then
Labyrinth of Madness.
Leroy Van Camp III
malacoda@lesbois.com
owner-mystara-l@io.com
"You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle."
MST3K
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 21:49:58 -0400
From: wjnowackl@MEM.po.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Some (hopefully) new topics
I'm going to reply to the responses to my message here. As there were
so many responses I'm not sure who posted each.
> > 1. Psionics in Mystara
> > Does Psionics exist?
> > If so, who's using them?
>
> The only people I know for certain are those on the Savage Coast who
>are
> affected by the Red Curse, and have a "Wild Psionic Talent" instead of
>one
> of the ordinary powers. (That is, assuming the GM permits psionics.)
I don't have SC yet, but I'm planning to download it. I'll have to
check this out.
>Heck, I could even see the Neh-Thalggu (Brain Collectors) having them.
>IMO, it makes slightly more sense than them getting Magic User spells
>from collecting brains. Or maybe they could get a combination (ie,
spells
>from the brains of mages; psionics from other brains).
Good idea!
> IMC using GURPS, I use Psionicists where the Mystics would be. The
Same
> could be done in AD&D and is IMO the best way to incorporate Psionics
>into
> the Setting. Mystics are in this case Monks who know martial arts and
>have
> discovered powers deep within their minds. They exist in the Mountains
>of
> Glantri and the plains of Thothia.
Just what I was thinking of!
>I know there was a Merrow war in the making in last year's almanac-
>though I don't recall if it was the Twaelar Merrow (down near the
>Thanegioth Archipelago), or the Undersea Merrow that were involved (I
>think it was the former).
Huh? I have PWA 1-3 and JA, and I don't remeber anything like this. Is
this from something this list has cooked up?
> Um... to be honest, I have no idea. There's really been nothing
>published
> about Undersea, since PC3. This is a /very/ good question, though,
what
> with Alphatia now open for exploration by Tritons, Merrow, and the
rest >of
> the water-dwelling species. You have to wonder about the Behemoth,
>too...
> there was that (successful) expedition to find the Alphatian Centre
for
> Disease Control.
> Anybody else care to suggest anything?
This sparked my imagination and I'm working on some events for Undersea
during and after the Great War. I'll post them as soon as I finish
them. Thanks to whoever posted this.
By the way, In a week or so I plan to start Dming a Wrath of the
Immortals campaign. This is my first time to either DM or play as I've
only just now rounded up a gaming group (I've been waiting since 1990
or so). Any one with any DMing tips (for Wrath or just general) feel
free to post.
Aaron Nowack
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 16:56:11 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic cloisters
On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, Shin Chyang Yu wrote:
> Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One pontificated:
> >
> > You touched on most of them, I think. The Sindhi mystics, Lhamsa in
> > Glantri's Alps, the Green Isle cloister in Minrothad (I think that's the
> > name of it).
>
> Where were they mentioned?
In the respective Gazetteers. Glantri has a couple of references to the
Mystics of Lhamsa, and the Minrothad one is likewise sort of buried in
the overview of the islands. The Sindhi orders get a bit more detailed
makeover in Champions of Mystara, though.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 02:37:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Some (hopefully) new topics
Here is how I handled psionics in my campaign -- I informed my players
that whoever took the psionicist class would be the first known member
of that class in the world. None of my players were up to that challenge,
although there was a child born to one of them who was destined to know
all three paths of power (in other words, to become a
Cleric/Mage/Psionicist).
But the campaign did not last long enough for that child's powers to be
revealed.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 09:52:42 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Some (hopefully) new topics
On Mon, 8 Sep 1997 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote:
> Here is how I handled psionics in my campaign -- I informed my players
> that whoever took the psionicist class would be the first known member
> of that class in the world. None of my players were up to that challenge,
> although there was a child born to one of them who was destined to know
> all three paths of power (in other words, to become a
> Cleric/Mage/Psionicist).
> But the campaign did not last long enough for that child's powers to be
> revealed.
A friend of mine did something similar in a Dragonlance Campaign. The Pc
set out on a quest to ensure people with psionic talents to be born on
Krynn. He was from another world arriving via Spelljammer.
Another matter: whatabout the fourth path of power, Shamanism?
Haavard
- ---
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 09:54:18 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Portal to Sigil
On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, Thorfinn Tait wrote:
> I'm just catching up on the past two weeks, so sorry this is a little
> out of date...
>
> On Mon, 25 Aug 1997 Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no> wrote:
> >An imortal cannot use its manifestation or incorporeal forms on the Prime
> >Material since that is a violation of the Imortal Law. Both Rad and Ixion
> >did this during the showdown at Wrath of the Imortals.
>
> Actually if I remember correctly I think Immortals *can* appear on the
> Prime plane in incorporeal form - they very often do in order to appear
> in mortals' dreams and appear to their followers and high-level clerics
> occasionally. It is only manifestation form which is prohibited.
Correct. Only Manifestation form is prohibited. Sorry about that
See ya.
Havard
- --
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 10:03:11 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Newbie ? about which Maps to seek out
On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, Jess E. Turner wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm very new to the list having through recently getting the Dawn of the
> Emperors boxed set being inspired to turn again to the world where I first
> started roleplaying with others. Although, it was not Mystra when I
> started but times change. :)
>
> My ? is about maps. I'm wondering which maps I should seek out. I have
> heard the Mystra boxed set contains maps but I'm not sure if they cover
> every nation?
Every Nation of Mystara? or every Nation of the known world?
Maps of the entire planet can be found in the Hollow World boxed set.
The Mystara boxed sets (Karameikos and Glantri) have maps of the known
world (Thyatis Region), but they are rather ugly.
try Wrath of the Immortals Boxed set for a good map of most nations of the
Known World
> I know there are two trail maps, Western and Eastern made for what was
> then the D&D world but would they be the best thing to look for since they
> are huge and detailed from what I hear?
Yes. I only have the Western one. Its large and detailed. Its from AC1000
though. Things change during the Wrath of Immortals Adventure, but you may
know that.
> My chief desire is to have another map beyond the limited one in Dawn's
> boxed set, that shows the complete Empire of Thyatis and it's relationship
> geographically with other nations.
I was thinking of making one myself covering known world, norwold and a
bit more, but it seemed to be rather complicated, so its not happening any
time soon.
> Does the Mystra boxed set show this? If so, how big is the maps in the
> boxed set?
>
> Would the map be in another accessory like the map I hear spoken of in the
> Immortal boxed?
yes, try that one.
>
> I'm not even quite sure yet if The Empire made the jump to Mystra because
> as I said the name was different when I last gamed.
>
> Any help/direction would be greatly appreciated. My private Email is below
> as I don't want to bore anyone if this has been asked/discussed before.
> Thank you very much.
Dont worry about that. Sorry about being a bit bried, but I have a lecture
now. See ya around
Haavard
- --
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:06:42 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Aleksei Andrievski <k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystic cloisters
On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, Fabrizio Paoli wrote:
> Where did TSR put "official" cloisters ?
> IIRC there're several cloisters in Sind, 1 in Glantri and 1 in Minrothad.
> Do I forget some?
>
I suppose there should be some in Thothia, since officially there are
mystics there.
***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord
** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but
** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us."
** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages,
** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers."
** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread."
*****************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:54:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Spells
In a message dated 97-09-08 11:33:40 EDT, you write:
<< > It has always been my opinion that a Glantrian mage takes longer to cast
a
> spell. This is due to the Glantrian tradition of being elaborate in their
> casting. In return for this longer casting period, Glantrian spells are
more
> impressive to the eye.
Even an Alphatian-Glantrian? Such as from, say, Blackhill (before it was
destroyed)? ;)
I do agree with you, though, that different casters, from different
regions and schools would likely have different (sometimes vastly
different) styles.>>
And don't forget the Flaemish families in Glantri. Flaems are just a branch
of Alphatia from that "little war" they had on the homeworld.
I assume those Blackhill and Flaemish mages would differ from Alphatian
Mages. Time affects many things. Then there is the difference brought on by
the Glantrian influence.
I would assume that the Flaems would be drastically different from the
Alphatians. This from the extended time and distance the Flaems spent away
from their Alphatian cousins after the "Alphatian Civil War".
The Blackhill mages would fall somewhere in between Alphatian and Glantrian
spellcasting. This coming about from the combining the two casting styles.
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:18:01 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Some (hopefully) new topics
At 17.22 07/09/97 -0400, winojack wrote:
> 1. Psionics in Mystara
> Does Psionics exist?
> If so, who's using them?
Well, if they exist they have had a tough time hiding all these
millennia... but they probably succeeded, since no D&D product ever
mentioned them (probably -no, surely- because they are an AD&D class).
Haavard said that Red Steel mentions Psionics, but i really don't seem to
remember this, unless you consider the Inheritors like Psionics.
As for myself, i've always been intrigued by Psionics, but never bought
the Handbook cause i waited for it being translated in italian... since it
never was, i ended up detailing my own personal race of psionic which we
currently use (they are aliens in Mystara)
> 2. Undersea (from PC3)
> What's going on?(history after AC 1000)
>
IIRC there's a war about to erupt, as Cthul said. I think Michael Roy is in
charge of it, so you'd better wait for next Net Almanac to come out.
DM
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:26:57 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] TotC
At 13.33 08/09/97 +0200, you wrote:
>Tale of The Comet.
>What is it? Its In my local store and I was wondering whether I should buy
>it or save the money.
>Any advice?
I've just bought it this morning. It's made up of 3 books:
- -First one describes the Aliens that are fighting against each other and
their armaments and props (really cool, especially the interior artwork!
Reminds me very much of Robotech!!!)
- -Second one details the setting of the adventure (Aston Point, a small
village in a mountain range near a lake -very generic: i think it could be
staged in Norwold or Bellissaria or even Karameikos) and the first part of
the adventure, when the PCs meet the aliens and help some of them to fight
against their enemies (not read yet, only skimmed thru it)
- -Third one details the second part of the adventure, where the PCs reach one
of the planets of the enemy (maybe the homeworld, i'm not sure) and battle
against the cyborgs for the protection of their own world.
All in all, i think it's a good boxed set, and the graphic is really well
done. I bought it for about $40 (the exchange rate, you know, and the damn
hobbystore sellers that want to make profit over my skin!!!), but i think
it's a good pick if u really like mixing Fantasy and High Tech Sci-fi.
Unfortunately, as Leroy said, no mention of Spelljammer universe, but i'm
working on this... and also i'm working on joining Oards and the Overseer
(the big bad comp of the adventure)...
DM
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 17:41:22 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Wendar-Denagoth timeline (again *sigh*)
Shane wrote:
<<To toss some more wood on the fire of the earlier timeline argument
("when does X11 take place?") I noticed that Kavien the thief, one
of the pre-generated PCs for X11, is described as having been drafted
by the imperial bailiff to help Gylharen; in return for this he will
receive a pardon for his attempted burglary of "the imperial palace
of Thincol the Brave, Emperor of Thyatis".>>
<skipped the part when u say that the PWA contradicts itself>
<<However if we assume that - since the almanac itself contradicts
itself - neither the Overview nor the Who's Who is correct
concerning when Bensarian gave Gylharen the Elvenstar (either date
places X11 before many of the other Basic and Expert modules
anyway), this now places X11 sometime after AC 960 based on Thincol
the Brave being Emperor at the time of the adventure.>>
The only flaw i can spot in your reasoning is its basis. You have built up
your hypothesis relying only on a sidenote written in one of the
pregenerated characters' description and completely ignoring any historical
references found in other part of the text(s), PWA above all others. If i
followed your example then, i would have a very strange view of Glantri and
Ierendi, basing on the NPCs such as Sandralane of Glantri (CM1) and a 33rd
level fighter of M3. Sandralane is in fact a cleric raised in Glantri City
itself (!!!), whereas the fighter is the ex King of Ierendi, who bored of
his life left his title to his son and resumed his adventuring career (!!!!).
I made these examples just to show you that pre generated NPCs are not
that "official" or "well connected" to the official Mystara campaign that
began with Gaz series. When Shawn and i decided to do the Timeline for
Wendar and Denagoth that we posted on the list (and that is on both our
websites, if u wanna check it out), we were faced with many inconsistencies
and discrepancies, one of those was the role of the pre rolled NPCs. To tell
the whole truth, the author of the module (Stephen Bourne) used the same
NPCs in the adventure X12, also written by him (Crown of Ancient Glory??),
the one about the Sorona, which "hypothetically" occurs just after X11.
Well, this adventure takes officially place (GAZ7) in AC 1150, so if i was
to follow your method of reasoning i would have to conclude that X11 was set
in AC 1148-49, which is not the case. Simply Shawn and i concluded that
there were some info we had to label as "uncorrect" and we had to choose
among contrasting versions (and we chose not to pay attention to
pregenerated NPCs, cause they're not reliable). What came out satisfied us
because it fit well into the official timeline.
However, regarding your version of the facts, i have to say that it's not
that absurd, especially with the links you made between WotI and X11, even
though u must agree with me that Stephen Bourne couldn't have predicted WotI
ten years before it was originally designed. It's you that worked so fine to
connect all those sentences to WotI, and i must admit u did an impressing
work. My advice is this: Shawn and me have already foreseen the possible
re-staging of X11 in modern days, and i proponed the years between 1002-1004
to give an explanation of Wendar's absence from the war. However, at the
light of your masterful considerations, i will certainly choose to re-stage
X11 in 1009 as u proposed, but remember: it is essentially a repetition of
the adventure, not the original one (which occurred at the beginning of the
tenth century in our Timeline) and as such you will have to power up a bit
the opponents, and especially Landryn Teriak (who is now a vassalich
according to our timeline).
As for nowadays Denagoth and Wendar, i am in charge of it for the Almanac,
and if you wanna know more about it, just wait for next almanac (AC 1015),
cause things will start to really rock in that troubled region (and only
Idris knows why)!
DM
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V2 #135
*****************************
From: owner-mystara-digest@ (mystara-digest)
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #136
Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
Sender: owner-mystara-digest@
Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@
Precedence: bulk
mystara-digest Thursday, September 11 1997 Volume 02 : Number 136
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 14:11:32 +0200
From: Deathwatch <deathw@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Newbie ? about which Maps to seek out
At 10:03 9-09-97 +0200, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote:
>On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, Jess E. Turner wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm very new to the list having through recently getting the Dawn of the
>> Emperors boxed set being inspired to turn again to the world where I first
>> started roleplaying with others. Although, it was not Mystra when I
>> started but times change. :)
>>
>> My ? is about maps. I'm wondering which maps I should seek out. I have
>> heard the Mystra boxed set contains maps but I'm not sure if they cover
>> every nation?
>
>Every Nation of Mystara? or every Nation of the known world?
>Maps of the entire planet can be found in the Hollow World boxed set.
>The Mystara boxed sets (Karameikos and Glantri) have maps of the known
>world (Thyatis Region), but they are rather ugly.
>try Wrath of the Immortals Boxed set for a good map of most nations of the
>Known World
And add the Princess Arc maps to get a great overall map (maybe add the Red
Steel one as well...)
BTW, what info is there on Hule and its capital?
Bas van Doornspeek - deathw@xs4all.nl
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 12:59:25 EDT
From: Neal Daskal <URND@MARISTC.MARIST.EDU>
Subject: Re[2]: [Mystara] Newbie ? about which Maps to seek out
>BTW, what info is there on Hule and its capital?
In addition to the stuff in the PWAs see X5 Temple of Death
(Doom?) for the original take on Hule. Playable, but VERY
challenging. This was the ultimate not-A D&D adventure in
the auld days before the Dragonlance Reformation replaced
wilderness crawl adventures with campaign world adventures.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 19:28:10 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Ierendi tournament
Has any of you ever detailed the famous Ierendi tournament? There's not
much info on it in GAZ4 (another reason why i don't like it), aside from
mentioning those belts that absorb damage.
I am currently runnig the tournament for my pcs, and i've organized it
this way (but i dunno if it's a good one):
All applicants must first pass a "Knowledge Test" that measures the person's
intelligence and knowledge of the world. There are 50 questions divided into
6 cathegories (History, Geography, Magic & Religion, Economy, Customs) and
each question has a score from 1 (the easiest one) to 6 (the most obscure
and difficult). In order to pass the applicant must score at least 80 points
out of 150: if he does, he is admitted to the "Provess Test", otherwise he's
rejected.
Only the first 24 pass, and each one is the assigned to one of six groups.
Each group is then composed by 4 players, and each one has to fight against
the others in a one-vs-one match. The one that wins the most games passes:
if there's a tie, a final match decides who goes on.
After this, only 6 contestants remain: the winner of group 1 against the
winner of group 2, then 3 vs 4 and 5 vs 6. At the end of these matches
(single round), only three contestants remain, plus the current king (which
makes 4 finalists).
They must then battle against each other in a one-vs-one match and the one
that wins the more matches is the new King.
With this system however, u can have a fighter vs a halfling or a dwarf vs a
mage, and so on. Also, the match field is a square 40 meters in length and
contestants cannot fly over 40 meters high. If somebody disappears, he must
reappear in 15 minutes (this means he can also teleport and return) or be
disqualified. Also, whoever drops his belt or takes it away from another
opponent is disqualified. Monster summoning is permitted. Only name level
characters can participate
What do you think? A bit unbalancing?
DM
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 15:54:39 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Some (hopefully) new topics
At 21.49 08/09/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>I know there was a Merrow war in the making in last year's almanac-
>>though I don't recall if it was the Twaelar Merrow (down near the
>>Thanegioth Archipelago), or the Undersea Merrow that were involved (I
>>think it was the former).
>
>Huh? I have PWA 1-3 and JA, and I don't remeber anything like this. Is
>this from something this list has cooked up?
True. It's on the unofficial Mystaran net-almanac for 1014 AC.
You can download it from MPGN.com or from my homepage.
- --------------
Fabrizio Paoli
brizio@lunet.it
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
- --------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 21:06:24 +0200
From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ierendi tournament
Hi!
>What do you think? A bit unbalancing?
I like it! I don´t think that only name-level persond should be allowed. I
also like that the current king only gets into the final, so he/she had some
advantage.
************************************************************
Peter Balazs
Wurlitzerg. 37/12
1160 Wien
0222/4816030
a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at
pbalazs@radon.mat.univie.ac.at
http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 21:06:29 +0200
From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Subject: [Mystara] DotE
Hi!
I have just tried to find some information about Shiye lawr in the DM´s
Sourcebook of DotE, but couldn´t find any. I have also noticed that some
other kingdoms are also not described (Frisland, Foresthome, Bettelyn,
Randel)! Why is this?
Or to ask a more apporachable question, where do I find some information
about Shiye-Lawr? (Except Player´s Guide to Alphatia) Do you have some more
information? Have you thought about it IYC?
Okay, I´ve just found soemthing in the PWAs, do you have any other info?
************************************************************
Peter Balazs
Wurlitzerg. 37/12
1160 Wien
0222/4816030
a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at
pbalazs@radon.mat.univie.ac.at
http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 13:52:06 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Denagoth: Norwold moved 300 miles! And another timeline idea.
On Tue, 9 Sep 1997, Shane wrote:
> Geography:
>
> Now, I know the 48-miles-per-hex map in Wrath is pretty inaccurate
> when it comes to drawing the coastlines and other terrain features,
> which are much more clearly visible in the 24-miles-per-hex map that
> accompanies it (even given the 2x magnification between them) but
> the maps in the Almanacs support it and the general rule is 'go with
> the newer material'. I'm just wondering when three hundred miles of
> land (plus a large lake and connected river system) vanished. :)
Yipes! I hadn't realized what a geographic problem occurred there!
In this case, I'd go with the old material over the newer stuff. I think
the Dawn of the Emperors map pretty closely resembles the CM1 map (I may
be wrong, though). In any case, I'd say what happened was that for
whatever reason, those geographic features were dropped in one project,
and then the error was perpetuated throughout the rest of the product lines.
> Timeline:
>
> To toss some more wood on the fire of the earlier timeline argument
> ("when does X11 take place?") I noticed that Kavien the thief, one
> of the pre-generated PCs for X11, is described as having been drafted
> by the imperial bailiff to help Gylharen; in return for this he will
> receive a pardon for his attempted burglary of "the imperial palace
> of Thincol the Brave, Emperor of Thyatis".
Again, as pointed out by DM, you're working from sort of a false premise
with this, at least insofar as many NPC descriptions contradict later
source material on locations described. I know that some of the CM
characters do this, as well as the NPCs you mention in the X11/X13 modules.
I wouldn't use them as a basis by which to place these modules in
chronological order.
(proposed timeline snippped)
> Any holes?
Sounds good to me. I like how you tied it in with the Wrath happenings
(which should have seemed so obvious, but I never really made the
connection with the plague, et al...). A plausible explanation of how it
might fit into the Mystara timeline.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 18:17:05 -0400
From: wjnowackl@MEM.po.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Some (hopefully) new topics
- ------------------------- Begin Original -------------------------
At 21.49 08/09/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>I know there was a Merrow war in the making in last year's almanac-
>>though I don't recall if it was the Twaelar Merrow (down near the
>>Thanegioth Archipelago), or the Undersea Merrow that were involved (I
>>think it was the former).
>
>Huh? I have PWA 1-3 and JA, and I don't remeber anything like this.
Is
>this from something this list has cooked up?
True. It's on the unofficial Mystaran net-almanac for 1014 AC.
You can download it from MPGN.com or from my homepage.
- --------------
Fabrizio Paoli
brizio@lunet.it
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
- --------------
- ------------------------- End Original -------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 19:00:07 -0400
From: wjnowackl@MEM.po.com
Subject: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline
I have worked out a rough Undersea timeline for 1001-1006, but as
brizio@lunet.it pointed out to me, the list has made a 1014 almanac and
I want to make sure that my plans don't conflict with it. So, I am
going to read the almanac tonight, and hopefully post a revised version
tommorow.
Aaron Nowack
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 16:26:57 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu>
Subject: [Mystara] Immortals vs. Gods
Okay- here's a thought that just occurred to me, and one that I don't
think has been proposed yet.
As we all know, Immortals seem to be the Mystaran equivalent of the Gods
of other TSR worlds. The main difference (with, possibly, a few
exceptions- Thanatos, Ixion, etc) being that Mystaran Immortals were once
mortals who ascended to "godhood"; this goes on on a (relatively
speaking) regular basis.
While it is true that some Gods have once been mortal- Cyric, Kelemvor,
Mystra/Midnight, Finder, to name a few- most Gods seem to have always
been; they are eternal.
What if the Gods of other worlds originated in the Mystara-verse? We know
the Old Ones have some goal with the Mystara verse that is related to the
Immortals- that being that Mystara Prime is a veritable breeding ground
for Immortals. Perhaps the Old Ones remove suitable Immortals from
Mystara-Prime to other TSR Primes, and place them in "God" positions there?
In other words, Mystara Prime is separated from all other Primes by the
Great Barrier/Vortex/whatever. The Old Ones (Lord Ao of Abeir-Toril, for
example), allow/influence/manipulate certain chosen Immortals of Mystara
Prime to come through the Barrier at times, and bring them to various
other TSR Prime universes, where they fulfill a deity role there (Mystara
having been a sort of practice; both as mortal and Immortal life).
This ties in with a lot of ideas- for one, it could explain where all
those Immortals that "came before" went to (hinted at in WotI- that there
were formerly other Immortals, long, long ago, that have vanished); It
could explain the Barrier; the Old Ones and their great project (at least
in part); the similarity of Immortal and Gods' names (ie, Thor, Odin, etc.).
Well? Any thoughts?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 21:34:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Magesmiley@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Newbie ? about which Maps to seek out
Maps...
Some of the ones I know of besides the DotE ones are:
1) the two trail maps, which if you can find are well worth your while (the
western one shows the main Known World from western Darokin to just barely
into the mainland of Thyatis, the Eastern one picks up where the other left
off and runs east to show part of Isle of Dawn), unfortunately they don't run
much further south than Ierendi/Minrothad.
2) the back page of the player's guide in the Companion Rules... (doesn't
show the borders, but shows the continent of Brun and all of Thyatis's
holdings)
3) the maps out of Wrath of the Immortals might fit your need, they are
reasonably good.
4) the Hollow World maps show the entire world... but its real hard to see
Thyatis and the rest of the Known World at that scale.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 02:41:54 +0100
From: Thorfinn Tait <Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk>
Subject: [Mystara] DotE: lack of info on Alphatia
Thorf.
=========================================
"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."
- Bilbo Baggins, "The Lord of the Rings"
Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk
Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline
=========================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 02:44:04 +0200
From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortals vs. Gods
Hi!
>What if the Gods of other worlds originated in the Mystara-verse? We know
>the Old Ones have some goal with the Mystara verse that is related to the
>Immortals- that being that Mystara Prime is a veritable breeding ground
>for Immortals. Perhaps the Old Ones remove suitable Immortals from
>Mystara-Prime to other TSR Primes, and place them in "God" positions there?
I also had thought of this idea, but never really thought it through.
>In other words, Mystara Prime is separated from all other Primes by the
>Great Barrier/Vortex/whatever. The Old Ones (Lord Ao of Abeir-Toril, for
>example), allow/influence/manipulate certain chosen Immortals of Mystara
>Prime to come through the Barrier at times, and bring them to various
>other TSR Prime universes, where they fulfill a deity role there (Mystara
>having been a sort of practice; both as mortal and Immortal life).
I agree wholeheartly that Ao from the FR should be an Old One.
>It could explain the Barrier
At least IMC it cannot, because IMC PCs and NPCs can travel via Planeshift
to the FR or Greyhawk. And if Mortals can go there, why should Immortals not
be able to?
>; the similarity of Immortal and Gods' names (ie, Thor, Odin, etc.).
How´s that? Why does this theory explain, why the God Thor and the Immortal
Thor have thes same name? There´s the possibility, that they are one and the
same (which I use IMC), or that the IMM T. was made into a god T. on another
plain, but then he should vanish from Mystara, shouldn´t he?
************************************************************
Peter Balazs
Wurlitzerg. 37/12
1160 Wien
0222/4816030
a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at
pbalazs@radon.mat.univie.ac.at
http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:44:53 -0500
From: "Jess E. Turner" <VVega@pnx.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Newbie ? about which Maps to seek out
Thank you for replying to my question(s).
"western one shows the main Known World from western Darokin to just barely
into the mainland of Thyatis, the Eastern one picks up where the other
left"
My fear was confirmed. I figured the division was in Thyatis. Ahh well.
I'm not sure I want go after both. They are available in an auction on the
net.
"2) the back page of the player's guide in the Companion Rules... (doesn't"
Thank you. I had forgotten about that one. Even though it is smaller then
a poster map/trail map, it is still something. I just saw it the other day
in my hobby store too.
"3) the maps out of Wrath of the Immortals might fit your need, they are
reasonably good."
One last ? if you don't mind. How big are these maps and how many? Do they
just show the continents or do they show some cities and geographical
landmarks of each country?
Thank you again. I appreciate any answers to the above you can provide.
Take care,
jess
- ----------------------------------------------------
From childhood's hour, I have not
been as others were.
- ----------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 00:06:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ierendi tournament
DM pontificated:
>
> contestants cannot fly over 40 meters high. If somebody disappears, he must
> reappear in 15 minutes (this means he can also teleport and return) or be
> disqualified.
I would think anyone who went out of the combat area, he should be
disqualified.
John Yu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 03:01:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Some (hopefully) new topics
In a message dated 97-09-09 04:05:20 EDT, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes:
<< Another matter: whatabout the fourth path of power, Shamanism? >>
At the time I ran my campaign, there was no material available to
indicate that Shamans were anything but Priests of a slightly different
type. I think that the OD&D Mystics might have filled a fourth
category distinct from Mages, Clerics, and Psychics, but they
really did not fit well into that scheme because they did not cast spells
per se.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 03:00:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Some (hopefully) new topics
I have thought of another place besides the Savage Coast where Psionicists
would be appropriate -- Glantri! Remember that prior to WotI Clerics were
illegal in Glantri -- so where did Glantrian adventurers go for healing?
Those
Elven Treekeepers and Krondaharian Mystics could only do so much, after
all.
The logical solution to this dilemma would be a uniquely Glantrian class of
"Radiance Psychics" who are essentially Psionicists whose powers are
activated by the near presence of the Nucleus of the Spheres. Those who
specialize in Psychometabolism and know the devotion of Cell Adjustment
would serve basically the same function as Clerics do elsewhere. Such
characters could never become Nobles (as they are not Mages) but they
would be assured of employment because their talents are so useful and
yet are not of Clerical origin.
Presumably the events of WotI would have freed these Psychics from their
tie to the Radiance and also prohibited any new characters from becoming
members of this class -- thus Glantri's relative openness to Clerics in the
post-Wrath era.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 00:09:07 PDT
From: "Herve Musseau" <herve@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] DotE
>I have just tried to find some information about Shiye lawr in the
DM=B4s
>Sourcebook of DotE, but couldn=B4t find any. I have also noticed that
som=
>e
>other kingdoms are also not described (Frisland, Foresthome, Bettelyn,
>Randel)! Why is this?
>
>Or to ask a more apporachable question, where do I find some
information
>about Shiye-Lawr? (Except Player=B4s Guide to Alphatia) Do you have
some =
>more
>information? Have you thought about it IYC?
>
>Okay, I=B4ve just found soemthing in the PWAs, do you have any other
info=
>?=20
Besides the PWAs and DotE, you have CM1, which tells about the
Shiye-Lawr of Norwold (ie those that didn't want to go to Alphatia and
be ruled by a king).
Also, you can check for the various elven timelines that some fellow
list members have made out of the various official supplements.
And in addition to that, you can have a different view on the Shiye of
Norwold by reading my short story about Zoltan the Treekeeper, which
unfortunately you can't find anymore on my homepage since it's closed,
but it's in a digest and maybe somewhere else too.
__________________________________________________________
Herve Musseau
Primary Email: herve@hotmail.com
Also: hmusseau@compuserve.com
Homepage: http://www.esiee.fr/~musseauh (not anymore it seems)
I'm a QSQWBEEEGGNFR Mystaran
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 19:25:07 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] DotE
On Tue, 9 Sep 1997, Peter Balazs wrote:
> I have just tried to find some information about Shiye lawr in the DM´s
> Sourcebook of DotE, but couldn´t find any. I have also noticed that some
> other kingdoms are also not described (Frisland, Foresthome, Bettelyn,
> Randel)! Why is this?
Allston ran out of space. He was trying to fit an area larger than that
described in all of the previuos gazetteers put together into one boxed
set, remember.
It's a shame, though. I'd have rather seen a separate Gazetteer for
Thyatis, and a boxed set for Alphatia alone. Such is life.
> Or to ask a more apporachable question, where do I find some information
> about Shiye-Lawr? (Except Player´s Guide to Alphatia) Do you have some more
> information? Have you thought about it IYC?
What info exactly are you looking for? There's a lot of generic
information scattered around, but if you're looking for something more
specific, you probably won't have much luck with it.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 21:17:26 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortals vs. Gods
On Wed, 10 Sep 1997, Peter Balazs wrote:
> >It could explain the Barrier
>
> At least IMC it cannot, because IMC PCs and NPCs can travel via Planeshift
> to the FR or Greyhawk. And if Mortals can go there, why should Immortals not
> be able to?
I had thought about that- this explanation might not work for your
campaign, though:
It's not so much that the Immortals (and mortals) can't go through the
Barrier- after all, the Spectral Hounds and Black Balls come and go via
the Void, right? It's just that those who go in never seem to come back.
Why? Perhaps the Old Ones prevent it, to avoid outsiders despoiling their
"zoo"; perhaps they get lost; perhaps they get amnesia and forget their
origins; maybe they just don't want to come back.
It's still a work in progress- but I agree, there should be some
precedent for travels back and forth between the realms.
> >; the similarity of Immortal and Gods' names (ie, Thor, Odin, etc.).
>
> How´s that? Why does this theory explain, why the God Thor and the Immortal
> Thor have thes same name? There´s the possibility, that they are one and the
> same (which I use IMC), or that the IMM T. was made into a god T. on another
> plain, but then he should vanish from Mystara, shouldn´t he?
Okay... so it doesn't really explain it. ;)
I don't know- maybe the Mystara Thor is a possible replacement Thor for
the future (maybe the other Thor dies in Ragnarok, along with the
Asgardian Gods, and the Mystaran Immortal counterparts replace them);
maybe, following from the above, there is a bit more interaction between
Immortals and Gods than we supposed (perhaps the outer planar Gods
discovered the Immortal project and are using them to train replacements-
or dupes?)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:57:38 -0500
From: Dion Cautrell <cautrell@poetic.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortals vs. Gods
> From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu>
> To: Mystara <mystara-l@lists.io.com>
> Subject: [Mystara] Immortals vs. Gods
> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 16:26:57 -0700 (MST)
>
>What if the Gods of other worlds originated in the Mystara-verse? We know
>the Old Ones have some goal with the Mystara verse that is related to the
>Immortals- that being that Mystara Prime is a veritable breeding ground
>for Immortals. Perhaps the Old Ones remove suitable Immortals from
>Mystara-Prime to other TSR Primes, and place them in "God" positions there?
>
>In other words, Mystara Prime is separated from all other Primes by the
>Great Barrier/Vortex/whatever. The Old Ones (Lord Ao of Abeir-Toril, for
>example), allow/influence/manipulate certain chosen Immortals of Mystara
>Prime to come through the Barrier at times, and bring them to various
>other TSR Prime universes, where they fulfill a deity role there (Mystara
>having been a sort of practice; both as mortal and Immortal life).
>
>This ties in with a lot of ideas- for one, it could explain where all
>those Immortals that "came before" went to (hinted at in WotI- that there
>were formerly other Immortals, long, long ago, that have vanished); It
>could explain the Barrier; the Old Ones and their great project (at least
>in part); the similarity of Immortal and Gods' names (ie, Thor, Odin,
etc.).
>
>Well? Any thoughts?
What about the suggestion made sometime back by DUFFISGOD@aol.com that
immortals are somehow between the mortal and god-like states? super-charged
demi-gods of a sort who are training to be gods? This would allow the use of
both D&D Immortals and AD&D deities in the same campaign. As for deities
with the same names as Immortals, who's to say either, or both, are using
their real names? or aren't called other things in other places.
Just a thought. . .
Dion Cautrell
cautrell@poetic.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:29:59 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Some (hopefully) new topics
At 03.00 10/09/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I have thought of another place besides the Savage Coast where Psionicists
>would be appropriate -- Glantri! Remember that prior to WotI Clerics were
>illegal in Glantri -- so where did Glantrian adventurers go for healing?
> Those
>Elven Treekeepers and Krondaharian Mystics could only do so much, after
>all.
>
Alchemist can certainly sell you some healing potion for otrageous prices :)
Moreover I guess that in Glantri (pre WotI) tehre was plenty of people with
First Aid skill or something like that (herbalism, natural healing...)
- --------------
Fabrizio Paoli
brizio@lunet.it
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
- --------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 17:56:21 -0400
From: wjnowackl@MEM.po.com
Subject: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline
- ------------------------- Begin Original -------------------------
On Tue, 9 Sep 1997 wjnowackl@MEM.po.com wrote:
>I have worked out a rough Undersea timeline for 1001-1006, but as
>brizio@lunet.it pointed out to me, the list has made a 1014 almanac
and
>I want to make sure that my plans don't conflict with it. So, I am
>going to read the almanac tonight, and hopefully post a revised
version
>tommorow.
Hi,
I am working on a complete version of the timeline for Mystara, and I
am
interested in any and all unofficial add-ons for appendices to the
official material. Would you be able to forward me your unrevised
version please? I'd rather see it than one which has had to bend to
other people's ideas. :-) Anyway, then I can put both in the
appendices if you don't mind, and if there's a big difference between
the two.
Thank you kindly,
Thorf.
=========================================
"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."
- Bilbo Baggins, "The Lord of the Rings"
Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk
Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline
=========================================
- ------------------------- End Original -------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:52:35 -0400
From: wjnowackl@MEM.po.com
Subject: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline AC 1001-1004
Summer, 1001 Attacks Rise
Description: Throughout Undersea, attacks by devilfish, undead, and
weresharks continue to rise in frequency.
What This Means: This is the natural countinuation of Saasaks' plans.
Winter, 1001 Tensions Rise
Descr: Tensions between Undersea over Kna piracy continue to rise as
pirate attacks continue to increase in frequency.
Spring, 1002 Saasaks Joins Brotherhood of the Shadow
Dercr: Hel approaches Saasaks with an offer of membership in the
Brotherhood of the Shadow. After some deliberation, he accepts.
What This Means: Saasaks has gained three powerful allies. With their
help, he believes that Undersea could fall before the decade ends. The
Brotherhood has gained a way to spread war and chaos across Ierendi,
Minothrad, and Undersea.
Spring, 1003 Minothrad Issues Ultimatum
Descr: The Minothrad ambassador to Undersea informs Queen Tarvova that
Minothrad expects her to end all Kna pirate attacks by AC 1004, ...or
else.
What This Means: The Guilds have had it with Kna piracy. This is due
in part to the efforts of the Cult of the Far Sea, one of Hel's false
cults.
Summer, 1003 Sharkin Vanish
Descr: All contact between the Sharkin and the other races of Undersea
in lost. Queen Tarvova begins an investigation of this occurence.
What This Means: Concered Immortals transported the Sharkin to the Merry
Pirate Seas in the Hollow World.
Spring, 1004 War Begins
Descr: Minothradian elite units (equiped with water breathing potions et
al) begin hit and run attacks on Undersea. Undersea declares war on
Minothrad. The nomadic merrow offer to assist Undersea. The Sea
Giants report that they are hard pressed by a huge devilfish army, and
that they have no spare troops available to help Undersea.
What This Means: This is the continuation of the Brotherhood of the
Shadow's attempts to spread chaos across the Sea of Dread.
How do you like it everyone? Does anyone have a better name for the
Cult of the Far Sea?
Aaron Nowack
"Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 19:40:49 -0500
From: brunciak <brunciak@erols.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Newbie ? about which Maps to seek out
Message-ID: <3414BBB2.657E@erols.com>
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 22:00:24 -0500
From: brunciak <brunciak@erols.com>
Reply-To: brunciak@erols.com
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
CC: brunciak@erols.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Newbie ? about which Maps to seek out
References: TCPSMTP_GEN.202.13598@199.190.97.184
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I wouldn't reccomend most of the Mystara Boxed Set maps. The trail maps
are really good and basically are nothing more than the maps of the
countries presented in the Gazetter series with additional tables of
info. To get a real good map of Mystara I'd reccomend the Hollow World
Boxed Set, DotE, Champions of Mystara (which shows Mystara west of
Darokin to Hule and parts of northern Davania), and WotI. I'm trying to
create a giant trail map of all known parts of Mystara using my
computer's scanner set at 1hex=24 mi. The problem is that I don't have
any maps of Hule at all. Are there any products out there which have a
comprehensive map of Hule whether it's "hexed" or not. Thanks!
RMB
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:26:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Magesmiley@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Newbie ? about which Maps to seek out
Scales and what is shown...
The trail maps are well worth getting if you can find a copy, they are
definitely the best overall maps of the Known World, with an 8 mile hex
scale, and much of the info lifted straight from the Gazeteer maps. I could
use a replacement for my copy of the Eastern Countries by the way, anyone out
there have one?
the map from the Companion book doesn't have an exact scale, although you
could figure it out from the assorted boxes which show how large the various
maps from X1, X4, X5, X6, X9, and CM1 are on it. the map only shows
coastlines, real major rivers, and mountain ranges.
The WotI maps... I'll withdraw my suggestion about these as a good source of
info, as they aren't really that great, although the 48 mile hex scale map
shows most of the Thyatian Empire. On the other hand WotI is a great item
and also worth getting, even if the maps aren't spectacular.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:49:08 -0400
From: wjnowackl@MEM.po.com
Subject: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline and other stuff
I posted a reply to the request for my original copy of the Undersea
Timeline from Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk. However, my mailing program
just posted the original message and not the reply. So here's my
reply:
As I could not find any contradicting material in the AC 1014 Net
Almanac, my original version is what I posted today (Undersea Timeline
AC 1001-1004), which uses the Wrath of the Immortals format. I am
working on a AC 1005-1009 timeline which will also use the Wrath format
and an AC 1010-1014 timeline which will use the PWA format.
By the way, I loved the AC 1014 almanac. How can I participate in
making the next one?
I may have missed something, so if anyone can find a reference to
Undersea in the Net Almanac, _and can give me specifics_ (which month
the event is in) either post or send me private e-mail.
To add more fuel to the Psionics in Mystara discussion( which I started
<grin>):
Would psionics count as spellcasting ability for the purposes of gainig
nobility in Alphatia?
Aaron Nowack
"Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:47:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Magesmiley@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] DotE
If I remember right there was a brief blurb on the Shiye-Lawr in the Alfheim
gazeteer, mentioning that they possessed one of the original trees of life.
Overall I think the almanacs woube your best source of info on the
Shiye-Lawr
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:38:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortals vs. Gods
In a message dated 97-09-10 10:53:29 EDT, ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu writes:
<< I don't know- maybe the Mystara Thor is a possible replacement Thor for
the future (maybe the other Thor dies in Ragnarok, along with the
Asgardian Gods, and the Mystaran Immortal counterparts replace them);
maybe, following from the above, there is a bit more interaction between
Immortals and Gods than we supposed (perhaps the outer planar Gods
discovered the Immortal project and are using them to train replacements-
or dupes?) >>
Another possibility is that the Immortal Thor and the god Thor are one and
the same. This idea is not as insane as it sounds. After all, Immortals
have
the ability to take a step down and assume Mortal Identities, so why
shouldn't
gods or "Old Ones" be able to take Immortal Identities in the same manner?
That means that Thor-the-Immortal is considerably weaker than Thor-the-god,
but they are the same individual in the sense that Rad and Etienne
d'Ambreville
are the same individual.
On the other hand, you may have noticed that the Norse gods are much
easier to kill than the gods of other cultures. It is known that the Norse
gods can be killed, but it is suspected that the Greek gods (to give just
one example) could not be killed. It is possible that the Norse gods are
"mere" Immortals who got loose in the multiverse and are now hobnobbing
with their "betters".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 02:54:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Esherdon@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Newbie ? about which Maps to seek out
can someone tell me how I can get the list changed to a different adress
please :o)
Thank you Esherdon Gaurdian of talas
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:20:20 PDT
From: "Herve Musseau" <herve@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline and other stuff
>I posted a reply to the request for my original copy of the Undersea
>Timeline from Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk. However, my mailing program
>just posted the original message and not the reply. So here's my
>reply:
>
>As I could not find any contradicting material in the AC 1014 Net
>Almanac, my original version is what I posted today (Undersea Timeline
>AC 1001-1004), which uses the Wrath of the Immortals format. I am
>working on a AC 1005-1009 timeline which will also use the Wrath format
>and an AC 1010-1014 timeline which will use the PWA format.
>
>By the way, I loved the AC 1014 almanac. How can I participate in
>making the next one?
Work has already begun on the next almanac, and Michael is, as someone
said, writing events involving the sea people (though I don't think it's
those from Undersea). Try getting in touch with him at mroy@cyberus.ca
>I may have missed something, so if anyone can find a reference to
>Undersea in the Net Almanac, _and can give me specifics_ (which month
>the event is in) either post or send me private e-mail.
>
>To add more fuel to the Psionics in Mystara discussion( which I started
><grin>):
>
>Would psionics count as spellcasting ability for the purposes of gainig
>nobility in Alphatia?
Probably not, as they would probably be hunted down as a threat to
wizards' supremacy (psionics are not magics, so they cannot always be
detected/blocked by magical wards).
Another question on the same topic would be : Does psionic function in
the Worldshield area, or in the anti-magic zone of the poles? What are
the effects of the SoP on it, specifically on those powers that match
spells of summoning or instantaneous transportation for example? Is the
whole transportation discipline barred from native psionics (if we
assume there can be psionics in the HW)?
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:46:22 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Newbie ? about which Maps to seek out
Maps of Hule can be found in the Champions of Mystara box IRC.
Haavard.
- ---
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:42:51 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: [Mystara] Psionics (was: Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline and other stuff)
On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, Herve Musseau wrote:
On Psionics in Alphatia:
> Probably not, as they would probably be hunted down as a threat to
> wizards' supremacy (psionics are not magics, so they cannot always be
> detected/blocked by magical wards).
I disagree. Alphatians seem to regard all "supernatural" forces as One.
Power beyond that of the commoner would be respected at the same rate as
Priests and Mages. If Psionics are included in the campaign, Aplphatia
should probably have lots of 'em.
> Another question on the same topic would be : Does psionic function in
> the Worldshield area, or in the anti-magic zone of the poles? What are
> the effects of the SoP on it, specifically on those powers that match
> spells of summoning or instantaneous transportation for example? Is the
> whole transportation discipline barred from native psionics (if we
> assume there can be psionics in the HW)?
I have a theory. Psionics works much like magic does (on a metaphysical
level). However it is connected primarily to the Sphere of Thought, as
Magic is connected primarily to the Sphere of Energy. My theory is that
the other Spheres also have their own equivalents. Matter probably being
Technology.
Using this theory, i'd say Psionics won't work since no mortal exploit of
the Spheres of Power works within a Magic Dead Zone. Psionics in Hollow
World is probably restricted by the Spell of Protection in the same manner
as other Magics. Also, I'd say that cultures in hollow World who didn't
have Psionics when living in the Outer World, probably wouldn't
have any psionic potential.
My personal theories only. Feel free to comment or disregard.
Haavard
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V2 #136
*****************************
From: owner-mystara-digest@ (mystara-digest)
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #137
Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
Sender: owner-mystara-digest@
Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@
Precedence: bulk
mystara-digest Friday, September 12 1997 Volume 02 : Number 137
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:08:18 EDT
From: Neal Daskal <URND@MARISTC.MARIST.EDU>
Subject: Re[2]: [Mystara] Newbie ? about which Maps to seek out
> Are there any products out there which have a
>comprehensive map of Hule whether it's "hexed" or not. Thanks!
X5 Temple of Death (Doom?)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:23:57 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline AC 1001-1004
On Wed, 10 Sep 1997 wjnowackl@MEM.po.com wrote:
> Summer, 1003 Sharkin Vanish
>
> Descr: All contact between the Sharkin and the other races of Undersea
> in lost. Queen Tarvova begins an investigation of this occurence.
> What This Means: Concered Immortals transported the Sharkin to the Merry
> Pirate Seas in the Hollow World.
Hmmm. All the Shark-kin vanished? I'm not sure I like the idea of them
all disappearing, though I do like the thought of the Immortals
transporting at least a portion of this dying race to the Hollow World.
> Spring, 1004 War Begins
>
> Descr: Minothradian elite units (equiped with water breathing potions et
> al) begin hit and run attacks on Undersea. Undersea declares war on
> Minothrad. The nomadic merrow offer to assist Undersea. The Sea
> Giants report that they are hard pressed by a huge devilfish army, and
> that they have no spare troops available to help Undersea.
> What This Means: This is the continuation of the Brotherhood of the
> Shadow's attempts to spread chaos across the Sea of Dread.
I like this war between Minrothad and Undersea- Minrothad was badly
ignored during the events in the Wrath boxed set; this is as good an
explanation as any of what might have kept them busy during that period.
How about Ierendi? They are Merrow allies- will they be drawn into the
conflict, at least partly?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:04:03 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline AC 1001-1004
On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Sep 1997 wjnowackl@MEM.po.com wrote:
>
> > Summer, 1003 Sharkin Vanish
> >
> > Descr: All contact between the Sharkin and the other races of Undersea
> > in lost. Queen Tarvova begins an investigation of this occurence.
> > What This Means: Concered Immortals transported the Sharkin to the Merry
> > Pirate Seas in the Hollow World.
>
> Hmmm. All the Shark-kin vanished? I'm not sure I like the idea of them
> all disappearing, though I do like the thought of the Immortals
> transporting at least a portion of this dying race to the Hollow World.
I say get rid of those pests ;)
Haavard.
- ---
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:28:37 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Newbie ? about which Maps to seek out
At 19.40 09/09/97 -0500, brunciak wrote
>computer's scanner set at 1hex=24 mi. The problem is that I don't have
>any maps of Hule at all. Are there any products out there which have a
>comprehensive map of Hule whether it's "hexed" or not. Thanks!
AFAIK there's no comprehensive map of Hule, only parts of it (mainly the
southern border) in X4, X5, Champions of Mystara, Red Steel, the Princess
Ark series in Dragon magazine.
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com
DM in City Of The Stars - PC in the Forgotten Realms
Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:30:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortals vs. Gods
In a message dated 97-09-10 10:53:29 EDT, ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu writes:
<< I don't know- maybe the Mystara Thor is a possible replacement Thor for
the future (maybe the other Thor dies in Ragnarok, along with the
Asgardian Gods, and the Mystaran Immortal counterparts replace them);
maybe, following from the above, there is a bit more interaction between
Immortals and Gods than we supposed (perhaps the outer planar Gods
discovered the Immortal project and are using them to train replacements-
or dupes?) >>
Another possibility is that the Immortal Thor and the god Thor are one and
the same. This idea is not as insane as it sounds. After all, Immortals
have
the ability to take a step down and assume Mortal Identities, so why
shouldn't
gods or "Old Ones" be able to take Immortal Identities in the same manner?
That means that Thor-the-Immortal is considerably weaker than Thor-the-god,
but they are the same individual in the sense that Rad and Etienne
d'Ambreville
are the same individual.
On the other hand, you may have noticed that the Norse gods are much
easier to kill than the gods of other cultures. It is known that the Norse
gods can be killed, but it is suspected that the Greek gods (to give just
one example) could not be killed. It is possible that the Norse gods are
"mere" Immortals who got loose in the multiverse and are now hobnobbing
with their "betters".
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:43:48 -0400
From: wjnowackl@MEM.po.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Unersea Timeline AC 1001-1004
>On Wed, 10 Sep 1997 wjnowackl@MEM.po.com wrote:
>
>> Summer, 1003 Sharkin Vanish
>>
>> Descr: All contact between the Sharkin and the other races of
Undersea
>> in lost. Queen Tarvova begins an investigation of this occurence.
>> What This Means: Concered Immortals transported the Sharkin to the
Merry
>> Pirate Seas in the Hollow World.
>
>Hmmm. All the Shark-kin vanished? I'm not sure I like the idea of them
>all disappearing, though I do like the thought of the Immortals
>transporting at least a portion of this dying race to the Hollow World.
Not all of them have gone. However I believe that only around 300
sharkin were left at this point and most of these were transported. So
any trading or diplomatic parties would have found empty, abandoned
villages as the remaining sharkin would have fled the places of "evil
magic" were their kinsmen (kinssharks?) vanished.
>> Spring, 1004 War Begins
>>
>> Descr: Minothradian elite units (equiped with water breathing potions
et
>> al) begin hit and run attacks on Undersea. Undersea declares war on
>> Minothrad. The nomadic merrow offer to assist Undersea. The Sea
>> Giants report that they are hard pressed by a huge devilfish army,
and
>> that they have no spare troops available to help Undersea.
>> What This Means: This is the continuation of the Brotherhood of the
>> Shadow's attempts to spread chaos across the Sea of Dread.
>
>I like this war between Minrothad and Undersea- Minrothad was badly
>ignored during the events in the Wrath boxed set; this is as good an
>explanation as any of what might have kept them busy during that
period.
>
>How about Ierendi? They are Merrow allies- will they be drawn into the
>conflict, at least partly?
Not in the current version. However, all of these timelines are in
version 0.5, and are subject to discussion by the list, and if enough
people think so, this can be changed in future versions. I believe
that Ierendi is providing passive support to Undersea and its allies
throughout the war, but is far too worried about escalating
Alphatia-Thyatis tensions to provide troops, also considering the cost
of such an expedition (water breathing potions, weapons that won't be
ruined underwater, etc.). The only reason I believe Minothrad was
willing to engage in this war was that they had been stockpiling such
items for years.
Aaron Nowack
"Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:56:38 -0400
From: wjnowackl@MEM.po.com
Subject: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline AC 1005
Spring 1005 Devilfish Rites
Descr: The devilfish capture Hammish McGregor. They attempt to use his
life energy to summon and control a kraken. Fourtunatly, a band of
adventurers foil their plans.
What This Means: This is a major setback for Saasaks.
DM's Note: This is the adventure Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea (from
PC3). The rest of this timeline assumes that the PCs (if you play the
adventure) succeed.
Spring 1005 Smaar Beseiged
Descr: Minothrad troops move to beseige Smaar, as they receive
reinforcements from the surface. They destroy the kelp forests and
fish schools near Smaar, and set themselves in a position from which
they can attack anything entering or exiting Smaar.
What This Means: This is a natural progression of the war with
Minothrad.
Summer 1005 "The Sea Giants Are Coming"
Descr: A wounded messanger makes his way past the Minothrad positions
and into Smaar, bearing news that the Sea Giants have defeated the
devilfish army and are sending help.
What This Means: The Sea Giants have defeated the devilfish... for now.
Winter 1005 Seige of Smaar Broken
Descr: Combined Sea Giant and triton forces succeed in destroying the
Minothrad emplacements around Smaar. Baron Marcus of Souedge dies in
the fighting. He has no heir.
What This Means: This is a natural continuation of the war.
NOTE: I had planned to post a AC 1005-1009 timeline today, but as
several people have pointed out the AC 1015 Net Almanac may involve
Undersea. Since the original version had some extremly major changes
to Undersea, I am going to contact Michael Roy who I have been told is
working on Undersea in that almanac and the rest of the timeline will
have to wait until I know what is planned for Undersea. If there is
enough demand I will post the "original" AC 1005-1009 timeline.
Aaron Nowack
"Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:31:43 +0100
From: "Leroy Van Camp III" <malacoda@lesbois.com>
Subject: [Mystara] [ADMIN] Resubscribing to a new address
Esherdon@aol.com meandered fecklessly...
> can someone tell me how I can get the list changed to a different adress
> please :o)
SImple, unsubscribe, the resubscribe with the new address. if any
of these steps are unknown to you, check out the list FAQ on the
MML home page at...
http://www.io.com/~oryon/mysthome.htm
Leroy Van Camp III
malacoda@lesbois.com
owner-mystara-l@io.com
"You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle."
MST3K
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:29:32 +0100
From: "Leroy Van Camp III" <malacoda@lesbois.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Psionics
Haavard Roenne Faanes meander fecklessly...
> I have a theory. Psionics works much like magic does (on a metaphysical
> level). However it is connected primarily to the Sphere of Thought, as
> Magic is connected primarily to the Sphere of Energy. My theory is that
> the other Spheres also have their own equivalents. Matter probably being
> Technology.
Haavard, I must say that is a damn cool idea; I never thought of it
that
way. I think I will be integrating that idea into future campaigns. I
normally don't allow psionics in my Mystara games, but that may
change...
Leroy Van Camp III
malacoda@lesbois.com
owner-mystara-l@io.com
"You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle."
MST3K
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:15:46 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Subject: Immortals vs. Gods
"Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu> wrote:
<<As we all know, Immortals seem to be the Mystaran equivalent of the Gods
of other TSR worlds. The main difference (with, possibly, a few exceptions-
Thanatos, Ixion, etc) being that Mystaran Immortals were once mortals who
ascended to "godhood"; this goes on on a (relatively speaking) regular basis.
While it is true that some Gods have once been mortal- Cyric, Kelemvor,
Mystra/Midnight, Finder, to name a few- most Gods seem to have always been;
they are eternal.>>
I would like to point out that, AFAWK (as far as we know) there are some
Immortals who are equally to be considered "eternal", since they don't
recall having ever been humans or mortals (Ixion and Thanatos are the first
two that come to my mind). It is true that there are maybe more eternal gods
than Immortals, but it's a fact that this kind of Immortals do exist.
<<What if the Gods of other worlds originated in the Mystara-verse? We know
the Old Ones have some goal with the Mystara verse that is related to the
Immortals- that being that Mystara Prime is a veritable breeding ground for
Immortals. Perhaps the Old Ones remove suitable Immortals from Mystara-Prime
to other TSR Primes, and place them in "God" positions there?>>
Are you implying that Gods are more powerful than Immortals? I really
don't know much about Gods, but i think that they have not been detailed in
any AD&D supplement mainly because the authors wanted to "purport" them as
invincible and unchallenged. Immortals however have been detailed, and this
sort of "dulled" the aura of power and awe that surrounded them. However, i
don't think Gods should be considered more powerful than Immortals,
especially if we consider that the D&D-AD&D conversion guide at the end of
many gazetteers specifically says that "Immortals are the D&D equivalent of
AD&D deities".
As a second thought, if you say that Immortals are trained in Mystara
dimension to be later placed as gods in the AD&D dimension, you are implying
that the AD&D dimension (and worlds) are much more "tough" and "important"
than the ones existing in the Mystara Multiverse (since they get the "best
and most experienced" deities): i won't make such a discrimination, really.
Finally, what about the theory exposed in Immortal set (gold box) that the
Old Ones take with them the Immortals that make it twice to Hierarch level?
Are you saying that these are the Immortals that become gods in AD&D?
Because in this case:
1. it seems it was very common in the past to accomplish such a quest, given
the number of gods existing in AD&D;
2. the number of the Old Ones then is not destined to increase anymore, if
they don't take among them those immortals
Or maybe the Immortals chosen as gods are others and they are chosen for
other reasons? But in this case then, no god has ever attempted what some
immortals effectively did: disperd their essence, being reborn as mortals
and attain immortality a second time, rising to Hierarch status. This would
prove that some Immortals are indeed more powerful and wise than most gods,
but they haven't been chosen by Old Ones to become gods: so, what's the truth?
<<In other words, Mystara Prime is separated from all other Primes by the
Great Barrier/Vortex/whatever. The Old Ones (Lord Ao of Abeir-Toril, for
example), allow/influence/manipulate certain chosen Immortals of Mystara
Prime to come through the Barrier at times, and bring them to various other
TSR Prime universes, where they fulfill a deity role there (Mystara having
been a sort of practice; both as mortal and Immortal life).
This ties in with a lot of ideas- for one, it could explain where all those
Immortals that "came before" went to (hinted at in WotI- that there were
formerly other Immortals, long, long ago, that have vanished); It could
explain the Barrier; the Old Ones and their great project (at least in
part); the similarity of Immortal and Gods' names (ie, Thor, Odin, etc.).>>
I don't think the Barrier separates Mystara Multiverse from other
dimensions, rather only from the Old Ones' dimension (the Sixth Reality).
Immortals can access freely other dimensions, as deities can, and mystaran
immortals have maybe already made contact with AD&D deities, trying to
establish some cult in other dimensions as well. One example above all: GAZ
7 and WotI mention the Dimension of Myth, where a planet exist in which we
can find all the cultures that have once existed on our planet (Greek,
Norse, Celts), each one with his deities and particular monsters. GAZ7
insists that some of the men of this planet, those who live in Midgard,
worship Odin, Thor and the rest of the Northern Reaches Pantheon.
Spelljammer (AD&D) campaign also places a crystal sphere called Terraspace
in the AD&D dimension. Within Terraspace, all the ancient cultures of Earth
can be found, from the Classical Age to the Renaissance.
To me, this similarity is strong enough to equal the AD&D Multiverse to
the Dimension of Myth. And since GAZ7 says that Odin and the others are
worshipped here as well, than this proves that Immortals can cross the
barrier between dimensions (and i would think gods can too), which is then
obviously not the same as the Vortex of the Old Ones. So, those names of
deities and immortals that coincide refer in fact to the same entity (Thor,
for example), and since we do know the powers of Thor as an Immortal, i am
inclined to conclude that all the AD&D deities are merely other immortals
that have evolved in another dimension under the patronage of the Old Ones.
After all, think again about Spelljammer: the deities have not created
neither the Phlogiston nor the crystal spheres, but they found them when
they arrived, so who created them? The Old Ones did, exactly for the same
reason they created the Mystsra Multiverse: to train exalted beings
(Immortals) to become future Old Ones.
DM
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:20:05 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ierendi tournament
DM pontificated:
>
> contestants cannot fly over 40 meters high. If somebody disappears, he must
> reappear in 15 minutes (this means he can also teleport and return) or be
> disqualified.
And John Yu pointed out:
>I would think anyone who went out of the combat area, he should be
>disqualified.
You mean that they cannot fly, isn't it? And what if they turn invisible?
Disqualified?
Also i have allowed magic items (no maximum) and permanencies on the
participants, but ruled that the spells be cast only after the match has
begun (obviously most of the chaotic characters will cheat...). What do you
think about this?
DM
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:42:15 +0200 (METDST)
From: "Oystein H. Lund" <kj160@hp825.lhg.hib.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Subject: Immortals vs. Gods
On Fri, 12 Sep 1997, DM wrote:
> After all, think again about Spelljammer: the deities have not created
> neither the Phlogiston nor the crystal spheres, but they found them when
> they arrived, so who created them? The Old Ones did, exactly for the same
> reason they created the Mystsra Multiverse: to train exalted beings
> (Immortals) to become future Old Ones.
>
Hmm. I'll buy that. The various dimensions in the multiverse are
different experiments set up by the Old Ones to create further Old Ones - and
they differ because they aren't certain which method is the most effective in
producing new ones...
Heh. I'd buy the Mystaran Immortals setup as the most effective then,
simply because the pool of candidates is by far larger than the rest of
the dimensions. Possibly larger than the rest of the multiverses combined.
Besides, two Mystaran Immortals have ascended already. As far as we know,
that's unique in the multiverse. The exalted's of other worlds seem to
be far too caught up in 'petty squabbles'...
Hey, does that mean that our dimension, devoid of magic as it is, is a
control null set up by the Old Ones ?
_______________________________________________________________________
| Oeystein H. Lund ,kj160@lhg.hib.no |
|"I still consider Southern California the best evidence we have that |
| not only do aliens exist, but that they are here already. " |
|_____________________________________________________________________|
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:21:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Daniel Boese <dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Psionics
>I have a theory. Psionics works much like magic does (on a metaphysical
>level). However it is connected primarily to the Sphere of Thought, as
>Magic is connected primarily to the Sphere of Energy. My theory is that
>the other Spheres also have their own equivalents. Matter probably being
>Technology.
Haarvard, this is an excellent idea - I only wish I'd thought of it
myself, first. :)
How does this look to everybody:
Energy -> Magic (Wizardly, Priestly, and Other)
Thought -> Psionics
Matter -> Technology (Blackmoor, etc)
Time -> Shamanism (from the Shaman supplement)
Entropy -> ?
- --
Daniel Boese dboese@freenet.npiec.on.ca
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:47:33 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Subject: Immortals vs. Gods
On Fri, 12 Sep 1997, DM wrote:
> I would like to point out that, AFAWK (as far as we know) there are some
> Immortals who are equally to be considered "eternal", since they don't
> recall having ever been humans or mortals (Ixion and Thanatos are the first
> two that come to my mind). It is true that there are maybe more eternal gods
> than Immortals, but it's a fact that this kind of Immortals do exist.
Though I didn't mention their "eternal"ity explicitly, I did touch on the
fact that some Immortals (such as Ixion and Thanatos) do seem to be
eternal, in that they don't recall their own mortal lives, if they had
them.
I could think of a number of ways to explain this apparent "discrepancy"
if necessary, but I don't see it as being necessary in order to further
the concept of Immortals as "Gods in training", so to speak.
There are still some questions I haven't quite answered regarding
memories and such of the Immortals and Gods, but it's a work in progress
yet... :(
> Are you implying that Gods are more powerful than Immortals? I really
> don't know much about Gods, but i think that they have not been detailed in
> any AD&D supplement mainly because the authors wanted to "purport" them as
> invincible and unchallenged. Immortals however have been detailed, and this
> sort of "dulled" the aura of power and awe that surrounded them. However, i
> don't think Gods should be considered more powerful than Immortals,
> especially if we consider that the D&D-AD&D conversion guide at the end of
> many gazetteers specifically says that "Immortals are the D&D equivalent of
> AD&D deities".
If you inferred that I was saying the Gods are more powerful, then I may
not have been completely clear.
In point of fact, the only distinction I make between the two (based on
past discussions here on the list), is that Gods are immensely powerful
beings who actively encourage and promote worship of themselves among
mortals, and direct the course of mortal existence to one degree or
another; Immortals are immensely powerful beings who may or may not
actively encourage and promote worship of themselves among mortals, and
are discouraged from overtly affecting the course of mortal existence
(though many do so anyway).
Not a lot of distinction at all.
> As a second thought, if you say that Immortals are trained in Mystara
> dimension to be later placed as gods in the AD&D dimension, you are implying
> that the AD&D dimension (and worlds) are much more "tough" and "important"
> than the ones existing in the Mystara Multiverse (since they get the "best
> and most experienced" deities): i won't make such a discrimination, really.
I don't see that implication, either. If anything, I think it places a
Mystara Prime in a much more important role in the Cosmos than any other
TSR Prime world.
The way I see it, is kind of like this- The Old Ones keep an eye out for
Immortals who fulfill certain qualifications. These qualifications can
vary depending on what the Old One has in mind for them- perhaps a
powerful Hierarch to lead a pantheon of Gods; perhaps a weak, but very
nasty Immortal to become a Death God; whatever. They aren't necessarily
the "best and most qualified", just the most suited to whatever task the
Old One wants them for. And who knows what the hell the Old Ones want,
anyway?
These Immortals are then tempted, in various ways, to explore the Vortex.
Perhaps a book on it falls off a shelf, etc. Those who are intrigued
eventually go there, and vanish from Mystara Prime. They end up wherever
they are supposed to be, perhaps with a loss of memory, perhaps not.
(Immaterial to the hypothesis at this point).
At any rate, the Old Ones can no more force Immortals to go through the
Vortex than can Immortals take direct action against mortals. If the
Immortals resist the temptation, they may freely remain in Mystara Prime.
(Which doesn't mean the Old Ones will stop trying to tempt them away,
though).
In fact, another hypothesis I have is that particularly strong willed
Immortals, the ones who not only resist the temptation to go through the
Vortex, but also the ones who become Immortal twice, and rise to Hierarch
level twice, are prime candidates for becoming Old Ones. These Immortals
have demonstrated the focus and dedication of purpose that makes for a
good Old One.
> Finally, what about the theory exposed in Immortal set (gold box) that the
> Old Ones take with them the Immortals that make it twice to Hierarch level?
> Are you saying that these are the Immortals that become gods in AD&D?
No. See above. Note also that I never touched on this in my original
(hypothetical) post.
> Because in this case:
> 1. it seems it was very common in the past to accomplish such a quest, given
> the number of gods existing in AD&D;
Even were I to hypothesize this, it doesn't necessarily follow from your
argument.
We're talking long periods of time here- even the documented history of the
Mystara-verse is many thousands of years old; and it is specifically
mentioned in WotI that there were "Immortals who came before", who are
now missing. If they were so old that only the oldest Immortals
(Thanatos, Ixion, etc) barely remember them, and those Immortals have
existed since the dawn of mankind's memory, then how long ago must they
have once existed? And where did they all go?
> I don't think the Barrier separates Mystara Multiverse from other
> dimensions, rather only from the Old Ones' dimension (the Sixth Reality).
It actually separates the fifth and lower dimensions from the sixth and
higher dimensions as described in the Gold Box. It's certainly valid to
assume that it may not separate Mystara from other Primes. It's just a
hypothesis.
> To me, this similarity is strong enough to equal the AD&D Multiverse to
> the Dimension of Myth. And since GAZ7 says that Odin and the others are
> worshipped here as well, than this proves that Immortals can cross the
> barrier between dimensions (and i would think gods can too), which is then
> obviously not the same as the Vortex of the Old Ones. So, those names of
> deities and immortals that coincide refer in fact to the same entity (Thor,
> for example), and since we do know the powers of Thor as an Immortal, i am
> inclined to conclude that all the AD&D deities are merely other immortals
> that have evolved in another dimension under the patronage of the Old Ones.
> After all, think again about Spelljammer: the deities have not created
> neither the Phlogiston nor the crystal spheres, but they found them when
> they arrived, so who created them? The Old Ones did, exactly for the same
> reason they created the Mystsra Multiverse: to train exalted beings
> (Immortals) to become future Old Ones.
Sure, and I fully agree that Immortals and Gods are not so dissimilar as
they are similar. Your ideas are an equally viable and valid hypothesis
of how the various TSR worlds might coexist.
My half-baked theory isn't terribly well thought out yet, and it is just
a theory. Keep the comments/criticisms/etc, coming though. It'll help me
get my meagre wits together on the topic. :)
Andrew
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 03:17:05 -0700
From: Sebastian Quiles <sq7s@dc.uba.ar>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Valerya's idea
> Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote:
> >
> > DM:
> >
> > At 09:50 AM 9/6/97 +0200, you wrote:
> > > And for those of you who have not done it yet, could you please state your
> > >birth date instead of your age? Thanx a lot!
> >
ok... mine its September 1 / 1974
- --
Sebastian Quiles
Universidad de Buenos Aires - ARGENTINA
mailto:sq7s@dc.uba.ar
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 04:23:41 -0700
From: Sebastian Quiles <sq7s@dc.uba.ar>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Smash Maneuver
Davide Bucci wrote:
>
> I think fighters should be able to do 1 smash for every attack they've
> got and then lost 2 fatigue points for every smash....
> Give your fighters only a smash attack per round could "cut the legs" to
> your poor fighter character...
>
> PC
>
In the Rules Cyc. it's clairly than the "Multiple Attack Maneuver" can
ba a combination of throw, attack, lance attack or disarm (p.104)" so
you can't perform 2 smashes with this maneuver... but I don't see the
problem if the player is hasted...
- --
Sebastian Quiles
Universidad de Buenos Aires - ARGENTINA
mailto:sq7s@dc.uba.ar
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:33:26 -0700
From: "David 'Azure' Leland" <dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Psionics
At 01:21 PM 9/12/97 -0400, Daniel Boese wrote:
> How does this look to everybody:
>
> Energy -> Magic (Wizardly, Priestly, and Other)
> Thought -> Psionics
> Matter -> Technology (Blackmoor, etc)
> Time -> Shamanism (from the Shaman supplement)
> Entropy -> ?
I'd think it would look more like this:
Energy --> Magic-User/Wizard, Wokan, and Fairie magic
Thought --> Psionics, Mystic powers
Matter --> Technology
Time --> Clerical/Priestly, Shamanic magic
Entropy --> n/a, or Demon/Fiend magic
Druidic magic really depends on your view. I prefer to have true druid
magic come from all spheres, but then I also think of druids as deriving
their power not from an Immortal or any Spheres in particular, but from the
(super)natural world in its most general sense, with emphasis on the
druid's planet. If this sounds like it makes them too important, realize
on the other hand that IMC druids cannot and do not want to become
Immortals, since they believe that violates the laws of nature to try and
escape mortality. Clerics of foresty, elemental type Immortals are not
true druids in my view, even if their magics and goals may overlap.
Anyway, that went off on a tangent. Later :)
/ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ \
: David "Azure" Leland ~|~ dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu :
| UCSD Cognitive Science ~|~ Phone/Fax: (619) 642-6709 |
: Graduate Research Fellow ~|~ http://cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland :
\ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ /
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 16:34:17 -0500
From: "Charles E. Dickey, IV" <dickece@mail.auburn.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Subject: Immortals vs. Gods
Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote:
> I don't see that implication, either. If anything, I think it places a
>
> Mystara Prime in a much more important role in the Cosmos than any
> other
> TSR Prime world.
>
> The way I see it, is kind of like this- The Old Ones keep an eye out
> for
> Immortals who fulfill certain qualifications. These qualifications can
>
> vary depending on what the Old One has in mind for them- perhaps a
> powerful Hierarch to lead a pantheon of Gods; perhaps a weak, but very
>
> nasty Immortal to become a Death God; whatever. They aren't
> necessarily
> the "best and most qualified", just the most suited to whatever task
> the
> Old One wants them for. And who knows what the hell the Old Ones want,
>
> anyway?
>
> These Immortals are then tempted, in various ways, to explore the
> Vortex.
> Perhaps a book on it falls off a shelf, etc. Those who are intrigued
> eventually go there, and vanish from Mystara Prime. They end up
> wherever
> they are supposed to be, perhaps with a loss of memory, perhaps not.
> (Immaterial to the hypothesis at this point).
>
> At any rate, the Old Ones can no more force Immortals to go through
> the
> Vortex than can Immortals take direct action against mortals. If the
> Immortals resist the temptation, they may freely remain in Mystara
> Prime.
> (Which doesn't mean the Old Ones will stop trying to tempt them away,
> though).
>
> In fact, another hypothesis I have is that particularly strong willed
> Immortals, the ones who not only resist the temptation to go through
> the
> Vortex, but also the ones who become Immortal twice, and rise to
> Hierarch
> level twice, are prime candidates for becoming Old Ones. These
> Immortals
> have demonstrated the focus and dedication of purpose that makes for a
>
> good Old One.
I am quite new to this list so please don't flame me for my
naiviety(sp?).
What I am curious about is how does this fit in with the "new"
Immortal Gareth "returning from the vortex?" I seem to remember Gareth
being discussed on the list a while back and I am not trying to open
that topic up again, unless of course some of you want to. What I was
asking about was how does this fit in with your idea behind the Old
One's use of the vortex.
Chad Dickey
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 11:03:53 +1300
From: Liam Jones <liamj@iconz.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
I have been away for a while and just found the following posts so I hope
its not too late, I have approx another 100 to read :). I am a list
newbie and have very little knowledge of Mystara other than what was
outlined in the OD&D rules. The hollow world, shadow elves and the WotI
are a mystery to me. I run several campaigns around the times prior to
these events which would be approx 1000 or there abouts I think.
Anyway here we go:
>Name: Liam Jones
>Email: liamj@iconz.co.nz
>From: Auckland New Zealand
>Interests: GMing using original D&D rules, Norworld, "The War Machine"
mass combat rules and developing mass combat and dominion running rules for
PBeM, Mass Naval combat including underwater, magical and monster affects.
>Age: 27
>Profession: Army Officer
>Website: http://www2.southwind.net/~phoenyx/master/index.html (For my PBeM
game using the OD&D modules X4,5 - You can join the list to lurk if
interested there)
>Marital status: Married
>Started playing RPGs: I was about 11
>First played D&D: As above
- --------------------------------------------------------
Liam Jones Page me as soon as I log on at:
Auckland, New Zealand http://wwp.mirabilis.com/2272869
liamj@iconz.co.nz
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:32:23 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Subject: Immortals vs. Gods
On Fri, 12 Sep 1997, Charles E. Dickey, IV wrote:
> What I am curious about is how does this fit in with the "new"
> Immortal Gareth "returning from the vortex?" I seem to remember Gareth
> being discussed on the list a while back and I am not trying to open
> that topic up again, unless of course some of you want to. What I was
> asking about was how does this fit in with your idea behind the Old
> One's use of the vortex.
Hmmm... That's actually a darned good question; one I hadn't even begun
to consider.
Off the top of my head, I can think of a couple of possibilities:
1) Gareth isn't back from the Vortex at all, but is in fact a different
identity for an already existing Immortal. Hel, Loki, Benekander, have
all been suggestions from here on the list.
1b) Gareth is an newly ascended Immortal, whose identity and aims
remain a mystery to all. (Something that I don't believe has been
proposed before)
2) Gareth is a former God from beyond the Vortex- one of the old,
vanished Immortals who went beyond, and for one reason or another came
back to this side of things. I believe there are a number of "lost Gods"
from AD&D worlds that could theoretically fit this bill, though the only
ones I can think of offhand hardly have the seemingly altruistic motives
of Gareth.
Possible reasons for his/her/its return are 1) fed up with being "pawns"
of the Old Ones (not a very good/well thought out one, I know), 2) the
former God has returned to try and stem the tide of Immortal births by
convincing mortals to turn away from their teachings (hence, in the
long run, stopping so many mortals from eventually choosing the path to
Immortality), or 3) (my favorite), the former "God" is fed up with
manipulation of mortals, and has come back to the starting point, as it
were, to try and rectify things.
One possible motivation for 3 comes to mind- a God from say, the Avatar
bit in the Forgotten Realms (which caused all FR Gods to rethink their
stations in regards to mortals) may have decided to take the lessons
learned there back to the "birthplace" in order to eventually reeducate
the Immortals of Mystara Prime in the means by which they should relate
to mortals, thus preventing future Avatar type scenarios in other realms
(and imagine their shock when they return only to discover that Mystara
has just recently had it's own "Avatar" type of conflict in the Wrath of
the Immortals).
Perhaps some of the "dead" Gods of Toril (Loviatar, Bane, Bhaal,
Myrkul, I think there is another one or two) from that conflict aren't as
dead as some think?
Those are just a couple of thoughts, but rest assured I'll try and think
up some more. :)
Good question, and welcome to the list!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 18:56:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Magesmiley@aol.com
Subject: [Mystara] almanac
Who is putting the next/current almanac together, and how can I offer some
help?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:28:59 -0500
From: brunciak <brunciak@erols.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Psionics
David 'Azure' Leland wrote:
> I'd think it would look more like this:
>
> Energy --> Magic-User/Wizard, Wokan, and Fairie magic
> Thought --> Psionics, Mystic powers
> Matter --> Technology
> Time --> Clerical/Priestly, Shamanic magic
> Entropy --> n/a, or Demon/Fiend magic
I agree with most of this. However, since all of these points deal with
mystical abilities in one way or another (magic, psionics, powers,
etc.), wouldn't mystical sciences such as alchemy and others (such as
the ones detailed in Glantri) be more appropriate than technology for
matter (even though technology is still good)?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 21:21:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Psionics
brunciak pontificated:
>
> > Matter --> Technology
>
> I agree with most of this. However, since all of these points deal with
> mystical abilities in one way or another (magic, psionics, powers,
> etc.), wouldn't mystical sciences such as alchemy and others (such as
> the ones detailed in Glantri) be more appropriate than technology for
> matter (even though technology is still good)?
Or the Gnome's fantasy physics?
John Yu
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V2 #137
*****************************
From: owner-mystara-digest@ (mystara-digest)
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #138
Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
Sender: owner-mystara-digest@
Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@
Precedence: bulk
mystara-digest Monday, September 15 1997 Volume 02 : Number 138
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 16:35:46 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu>
Subject: [Mystara] Another Planescape/Mystara thought
Yep- here's another one; it's brief, though.
Has anyone else concluded that the Lady of Pain may be an Old One?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:35:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline and other stuff)
In a message dated 97-09-11 18:38:13 EDT, wjnowackl@MEM.po.com writes:
<< Would psionics count as spellcasting ability for the purposes of gainig
nobility in Alphatia? >>
I would say yes -- although if distinctions were made according to a caster's
level, all Psionicists would probably be considered low level. But I suspect
that a Wild Talent would not be eligible for nobility -- "So you can levitate
small objects. Is that all you can do?"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:36:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline and other stuff
In a message dated 97-09-11 04:15:54 EDT, herve@hotmail.com writes:
<< Probably not, as they would probably be hunted down as a threat to
wizards' supremacy (psionics are not magics, so they cannot always be
detected/blocked by magical wards).>>
That is not a major problem. The more traditional spellcasters would
realize that Psionicists are more limited in power than they are despite
their advantage in being more difficult to detect. And besides, what is
to stop a wizard from researching a "Detect Psionics" spell? If such a
spell is possible and there are Psionicists in Alphatia, then you may be
sure that this spell if fairly common among the local Mages.
<< Another question on the same topic would be : Does psionic function in
the Worldshield area, or in the anti-magic zone of the poles? What are
the effects of the SoP on it, specifically on those powers that match
spells of summoning or instantaneous transportation for example? Is the
whole transportation discipline barred from native psionics (if we
assume there can be psionics in the HW)? >>
We are really forced to choose between two alternatives:
1) Psionics are blocked in the same way as magic. This would permit
psionics to work well in the Known World and somewhat less well in the
Hollow World (because many devotions, sciences, and even whole
disciplines do not work there).
2) Psionics are unaffected by the World Shield. For this explanation to
hold, psionics must be extremely rare -- perhaps confined to the Savage
Coast and other similarly restricted areas. By this theory, a Savage
Coast Psionicist could teleport himself to the Hollow World -- but given
the origin of his powers from the Red Curse, he would have a tough time
surviving there and would eventually lose his powers even if he does
survive.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 00:34:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Another Planescape/Mystara thought
In a message dated 97-09-12 22:54:52 EDT, ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu writes:
<< Yep- here's another one; it's brief, though.
Has anyone else concluded that the Lady of Pain may be an Old One? >>
She has the ability to exclude powers or gods from Sigil, so she must
certainly be of that level of power, I would think.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 00:34:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Subject: Immortals vs. Gods
In a message dated 97-09-12 04:22:31 EDT, dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it writes:
<< Are you implying that Gods are more powerful than Immortals? I really
don't know much about Gods, but i think that they have not been detailed in
any AD&D supplement mainly because the authors wanted to "purport" them as
invincible and unchallenged. >>
Actually, gods or powers are fairly well defined in "Legends and Lore". It
appears that the avatar of a god is probably weaker than an Immortal in
Manifestation form, but a god in "true" form is so powerful as to not be
quantifiable in AD&D terms. Of course, the same could easily be said
about most Immortals.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 01:41:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline and other stuff)
Kaviyd@aol.com pontificated:
> But I suspect
> that a Wild Talent would not be eligible for nobility -- "So you can levitate
> small objects. Is that all you can do?"
>
I don't know anything about Wild Talent, but I remember in DoE, it
was mentioned that a person is consider as a spell caster even if
he have any magical ability, no matter how small.
John Yu
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 12:10:49 +-200
From: Gabriele Ferri <fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Valerya's idea
OK, I was born on the 19th October 1980.
See you
Gabriele Ferri - fif3336@iperbole.bologna.it
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 06:11:50 -0500
From: Dion Cautrell <cautrell@poetic.com>
Subject: [Mystara] RE: Psionics in Alphatia
> THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
- --Next_Part_2956975910_51888_MS_Mac_IMN
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On Fri, Sep 12, 1997, 23:36:42 EDT, Kaviyd@aol.com wrote:
>That is not a major problem. The more traditional spellcasters would
>realize that Psionicists are more limited in power than they are despite
>their advantage in being more difficult to detect. And besides, what is
>to stop a wizard from researching a "Detect Psionics" spell? If such a
>spell is possible and there are Psionicists in Alphatia, then you may be
>sure that this spell if fairly common among the local Mages.
A Detect Psionics spell was outlined in Dragon #106 (I think). If anyone
would like to see it, I'll look it up him or her, or perhaps simply post it
to the list.
- --Dion
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dion Cautrell
Department of English
University of Nebraska at Kearney
Kearney, Nebraska 68847
(308) 865-8299
E-mail: cautrelld@platte.unk.edu
OR cautrell@poetic.com
"I always go on until I am stopped, and I never am stopped,"
Percy Bysshe Shelley to Edward J. Trelawny.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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<TITLE>RE: Psionics in Alphatia</TITLE>
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On Fri, Sep 12, 1997, 23:36:42 EDT, Kaviyd@aol.com wrote:<BR>
>That is not a major problem. The more traditional spellcasters would <BR>
>realize that Psionicists are more limited in power than they are despite<BR>
>their advantage in being more difficult to detect. And besides, what is<BR>
>to stop a wizard from researching a "Detect Psionics" spell? If such a<BR>
>spell is possible and there are Psionicists in Alphatia, then you may be<BR>
>sure that this spell if fairly common among the local Mages.<BR>
<BR>
A <I>Detect Psionics</I> spell was outlined in Dragon #106 (I think). If anyone would like to see it, I'll look it up him or her, or perhaps simply post it to the list.<BR>
<BR>
- --Dion<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Dion Cautrell<BR>
Department of English<BR>
University of Nebraska at Kearney<BR>
Kearney, Nebraska 68847<BR>
(308) 865-8299<BR>
E-mail: cautrelld@platte.unk.edu<BR>
OR cautrell@poetic.com<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
"I always go on until I am stopped, and I never am stopped,"<BR>
Percy Bysshe Shelley to Edward J. Trelawny.<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
</BODY>
</HTML>
- --Next_Part_2956975910_51888_MS_Mac_IMN--
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 13:24:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Wassellj@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Smash Maneuver
In a message dated 12/09/97 21:05:49, you write:
<< In the Rules Cyc. it's clairly than the "Multiple Attack Maneuver" can
ba a combination of throw, attack, lance attack or disarm (p.104)" so
you can't perform 2 smashes with this maneuver... but I don't see the
problem if the player is hasted...
>>
Yep you can have a combination of these activties, and so you could have two
or three smashes, and no throws or disarms. That is a legitimate use of the
phrase combination. If you can still hit your opponent with a 2, when you
consider the -5 adjustment, then I believe you should be able to hit more
than once.
I may be seen to contradict myself here, but I do however believe there has
to be some consideration by the DM of the situation. You can have mutiple
attacks and multiple smashes only in ideal circumstances. I suggest that a
DM might rule that in some circumstances your smash attacks are limited.
e.g. DM rules that the situation is not ideal for a smash attack, and rules
that of my three attacks, one has to be used to readjust position during
swings. So I have a combination of two smash attacks and a movement.
Now if someone is raising the issue of haste now thats a whole new ball-game.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 13:44:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Magesmiley@aol.com
Subject: [Mystara] Re: Psionics in Alphatia
>>I don't know anything about Wild Talent, but I remember in DoE, it
>>was mentioned that a person is consider as a spell caster even if
>>he have any magical ability, no matter how small.
I have been keeping out of this discussion somewhat but I thought I might
add a major point to this discussion: psionics are not magic (reread page 7
of the Complete Psionics Handbook). I think the key point in determining
eligibility for Alphatian nobility is how magic works compared to the way
psionics work, magic harnesses and uses external energy, while that of
psionics uses internal forces from there own being (summarized from p.7). As
such there is a difference between the two and I would assume most Alphatians
would see it that way also, and deny nobility to psionics on the basis that
there talents aren't magical.
If one were to allow psionics to qualify for Alphatian nobility you would
have to allow other creatures/classes with abilities which duplicate those
which can be generated by spells to be eligible as well. I would assume that
a line would have to be drawn somewhere for what qualifies as magic and what
doesn't and I think the distinction I mentioned above would be the best and
cleanest one.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 20:57:02 -0400
From: wjnowackl@MEM.po.com
Subject: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline AC 1005-1009
As several people suggested, I contacted mroy@cyberus.ca about possible
conflicts with the AC 1015 Net Almanac. I was informed that the
almanac would concern the Twaelar Merrow and not Undersea. So, here is
my 1005-1009 timeline.
NOTE: This includes the AC 1005 timeline I posted a few days ago.
Spring 1005 Devilfish Rites
Descr: The devilfish capture Hammish McGregor. They attempt to use his
life energy to summon and control a kraken. Fourtunatly, a band of
adventurers foil their plans.
What This Means: This is a major setback for Saasaks.
DM's Note: This is the adventure Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea (from
PC3). The rest of this timeline assumes that the PCs (if you play the
adventure) succeed.
Spring 1005 Smaar Beseiged
Descr: Minothrad troops move to beseige Smaar, as they receive
reinforcements from the surface. They destroy the kelp forests and
fish schools near Smaar, and set themselves in a position from whish
they can attack anything entering or exiting Smaar.
What This Means: This is a natural progression of the war with
Minothrad.
Summer 1005 "The Sea Giants Are Coming"
Descr: A wounded messanger makes his way past the Minothrad positions
and into Smaar, bearing news that the Sea Giants have defeated the
devilfish army and are sending help.
What This Means: The Sea Giants have defeated the devilfish... for now.
Winter 1005 Seige of Smaar Broken
Descr: Combined Sea Giant and triton forces succeed in destroying the
Minothrad emplacements around Smaar. Baron Marcus of Souedge dies in
the fighting. He has no heir.
What This Means: This is a natural continuation of the war.
Winter 1005 The War Ends
Descr: A peace treaty is signed between Minothrad and Undersea.
Minothrad agrees to recognize the fact that Undersea has no control
over the Kna pirates.
What This Means: A group of adventurers discovered that the Cult of The
Far Sea was, unknowingly, a Cult of Hel. With the Cult's influence
diminished, calmer heads prevailed in Minothrad.
Spring 1006 Undersea Rebuilds
Descr: Undersea begins the long process of rebuilding. As the people of
Soudege cannot agree on a successor for Baron Marcus, they ask Queen
Tarovra to appoint someone to temporarily fill the position. She
chooses her brother, Juliast.
Fall 1006 Sea Giant Refugees Arrive
Descr: Sea Giants arrive in Undersea bearing news of a devilfish army
larger than the first which overwhelmed the weakened Sea Giant forces
and conquered the Sea Giant territories.
What This Means: Saasaks is recovering from the setbacks dealt to her in
AC 1005.
Spring 1007 Devilfish Invade
Descr: The devilfish invade Undersea in force. Undead rise up and cause
troudle all over Undersea, adding to the confusion. During an
important battle, the forces of Baron Kitas of Nortens and Baron
Caxctiou of Calitar switch sides, and Baron Kitas' forces reveal
themselves to be weresharks. Baron Kitas and his personal guard remain
loyal to Undersea and are slain by their former friends.
What This Means: Saasaks is launching his final assault
Fall 1007 Werea and Easa Fall
Descr: The Baronies of Werea and Easa fall to the devilfish. Their
respective rulers, Claudia and Autalanus are slain
Summer 1008 Front Stablises
Descr: The triton, with help from the merrow, mnage to set up a fairly
stable front, as the war drags into a stalemate.
Winter 1008 Triton Vanish
Descr: Queen Tarovra, the survivng barons (except Juliast), and many
triton vanish. Juliast (who assumes the position of King) is at a loss
to explain the dissapearences.
What This Means: Manawra transported them to the Merry Pirate Seas in
the Hollow World.
Spring 1009 Triton Exodus
Descr: Juliast leads the surviving triton and merrow on a mass exodus.
Their destination: Aquas in Alphatia.
What This Means: Juliast is acting on visions sent to him fom Manawra.
The Sea of Dread will become even more deserving of its name as a
devilfish cleric discovers a spell that prottects devilfisf from the
sun's harmful effects. Devilfish using this spell will begin to sink
ships sailing through the Sea of Dread.
Winter 1009 Exodus Arrives
Descr: After a long, hard journey the triton arrive in Aquas. They are
suprised to find that Alphatia has recently sunk. Some settle in
Aquas, while others follow King Juliast north into the newly formed
Alphatian Sea to found a new nation, Underocean.
Aaron Nowack
"Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 21:12:22 -0400
From: wjnowackl@MEM.po.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortals vs. Gods
As one preson hypothesised in a message I accidentaly deleted:
>Does this mean that our universe, devoid of all magic, is actually a
control null set up by the Old >Ones?
Does this mean that God is an Old One? :)
I like this thread, but haven't commented as I know nothing about the
AD&D universe, besides whats in the Core Rules CD-ROM, and First Quest
("Hey let's take OD&D, have 3 levels and no character creation, add in
a crappy CD, and call it AD&D First Quest."). However, since I do have
all the products mentioning Gareth, I thought I'd comment on that part
of the thread.
I personally like the idea of Gareth being returned from the Vortex. I
believe that he is an Immortal Identity of the Old One who appeared at
the end of Wrath. I have no supporting evidence for this however.
Aaron Nowack
"Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 21:20:04 -0400
From: wjnowackl@MEM.po.com
Subject: [Mystara] Psionics in Mystara
dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it wrote:
> As for myself, i've always been intrigued by Psionics, but never
bought
>the Handbook cause i waited for it being translated in italian... since
it
>never was, i ended up detailing my own personal race of psionic which
we
>currently use (they are aliens in Mystara)
I was looking through my old e-mail and found this. Could you post some
details on this race?
Aaron Nowack
"Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 16:08:46 +0100
From: Thorfinn Tait <Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk>
Subject: [Mystara] Almanac
On Fri, 12 Sep 1997 Magesmiley@aol.com wrote:
>Who is putting the next/current almanac together, and how can I offer some
>help?
Here is a list of the people working on the Almanac, as far as I can
remember. If you want to help, I suggest you contact the person who is
in charge of the area you are most interested in helping with. Note,
however, that work on many areas is quite far advanced now (almost
complete for some areas I think), so you may not be able to help. It's
best just to ask the person involved and they'll tell you.
- - Michael Roy <mroy@cyberus.ca> is assembling and editing the almanac,
as well as writing material for it. He's in charge of the whole thing.
- - Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it> is in charge of Shadow Elf events as
well as some other stuff.
- - Cthuludrew <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU> is in charge of humanoid events.
- - DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it> is in charge of Wendar and Denagoth events.
- - Herve <herve@hotmail.com> is in charge of Alphatian (NACE and Hollow
World) events.
- - I <Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk> am in charge of Hollow World events.
(And I'm definitely still happy to accept some help!)
I hope I haven't missed anyone out - if I have, please someone say so!
Also, I don't know the exact details of who is working on the Known
World nations. Perhaps someone from the above list could supply this
information to the list?
Thorf.
=========================================
"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."
- Bilbo Baggins, "The Lord of the Rings"
Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk
Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline
=========================================
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 00:04:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline and other stuff)
In a message dated 97-09-13 02:00:34 EDT, scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu
writes:
<< I don't know anything about Wild Talent, but I remember in DoE, it
was mentioned that a person is consider as a spell caster even if
he have any magical ability, no matter how small. >>
By that definition, I suppose a Wild Talent would have to be eligible for
nobility. That also means, of course, that most fairy creatures (per PC1)
are also eligible for nobility, even if they are not spellcasters -- at a
bare
minimum, they can make themselves "Invisible to Mortals" at will.
But the real distinction that I was trying to draw was between true
spellcasters (which would include Clerics, Mages, and Psionicists),
who can improve their abilities and gain new powers with experience,
and those individuals who have magical talents that are fixed in
terms of power. The latter type would include Wild Talents as well
as most monsters who have racial magical talents.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 00:47:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline and other stuff)
Kaviyd@aol.com pontificated:
>
> That also means, of course, that most fairy creatures (per PC1)
> are also eligible for nobility, even if they are not spellcasters -- at a
> bare
> minimum, they can make themselves "Invisible to Mortals" at will.
>
Humm, innate ability like that are somewhat on the border line. If
Invisible to Mortals counts, does ability like breath weapon,
infravision, etc count?
John Yu
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 01:58:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline and other stuff)
In a message dated 97-09-14 01:24:58 EDT, scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu
writes:
<< Humm, innate ability like that are somewhat on the border line. If
Invisible to Mortals counts, does ability like breath weapon,
infravision, etc count? >>
Infravision certainly should not -- but I am less sure about a breath
weapon.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 04:03:32 -0300 (EST)
From: Andre Martins <acrmarti@fma1.if.usp.br>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
I am late for this, but I hope still on time
Name: Andre Martins
Email: acrmarti@fma.if.usp.br
From: Sao Paulo, Brasil
Interests: almost everything about Mystara, running campaigns currently in
Karameikos and Glantri
Other Interests: Physics, Writing, Karate, Computers and a too long list
Age: 30 (July, 25, 1967)
Profession: postdoctorate researcher, physics, aka almost unemployed
Website: none yet, but working on it (for almost one year now :(
Marital status: Married
Started playing RPGs: some 7 years ago
First played D&D: As above
Andre
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 10:30:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Magesmiley@aol.com
Subject: Re: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline and other stuff)
>>>But the real distinction that I was trying to draw was between true
>>>spellcasters (which would include Clerics, Mages, and Psionicists),
>>>who can improve their abilities and gain new powers with experience,
>>>and those individuals who have magical talents that are fixed in
>>>terms of power. The latter type would include Wild Talents as well
>>>as most monsters who have racial magical talents.
I'd like to point out once again that Psionicists are not true spellcasters
and should also fall into the same category those not true spellcasters.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 10:50:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Magesmiley@aol.com
Subject: Re: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline and other stuff)
<< Humm, innate ability like that are somewhat on the border line. If
Invisible to Mortals counts, does ability like breath weapon,
infravision, etc count? >>
**Infravision certainly should not -- but I am less sure about a breath
**weapon.
This is what i was trying to point out earlier a line has to be drawn
somewhere as to what determines if someone qualifies as a spellcaster or not
for purposes of qualifying for Alphatian nobility. The cleanest distinction
I could come up with was the source of someone's/something's spell-like
abilities and these I derived from page 7 of the Complete Psionicists
Handbook, which is this essentially: If someone's or something's abilities
come from external energy (like those which a magic-user or cleric tap into
to generate their spells) its considered spellcasting; if it comes from
internal energy (like that which a psionicist taps into, or natural abilities
of a race such as infravision, or a dragon's breath weapon, or even a a
fairy's invisible to mortals ability) it is not spellcasting (even if the
ability might act like or even be magical).
Opinions anyone? This was the best line I could draw which is reasonably
clean, and doesn't have us going in circles saying what about this or what
about that.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 00:44:06 +0800
From: Glenn Butcher <knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Psionics in Alphatia
Magesmiley@aol.com rambled (Magesmiley@aol.com):
>
>
> << Humm, innate ability like that are somewhat on the border line. If
> Invisible to Mortals counts, does ability like breath weapon,
> infravision, etc count? >>
>
> **Infravision certainly should not -- but I am less sure about a breath
> **weapon.
>
One way of looking at things is that only abilities which are magical in
nature, excluding inate abilities, or counted.
another way is the Alphatians themselves don't know yet? Psionics could be a
relatively new ability, developed by the sphere of thought to counter the
dominence of magic. Psionicists would of course say that they should be
considered noble, while many mages would not (as psionicists pose a threat
to them). Clerics can fall on either side, depending on personal perference
or immortal served.
This makes for the most amount of confusion and fun. Is the party
psionicist treated like a lord or are they strung up from a nearby tree?
When some private skirmish breaks out into local war, who do they
support? (Conceivably both sides and none).
IMC I'll be doing the latter, because it has more interesting potential.
- --
Glenn Butcher
mailto:knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au | "Remind me never to do
finger -l for PGP public key | this again." - Dresbor
http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/ |
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 21:52:27 +0200
From: Diego Calugi <scalugi@biuno.dada.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline AC 1005-1009
wjnowackl@MEM.po.com wrote:
>
> Winter 1008 Triton Vanish
>
> Descr: Queen Tarovra, the survivng barons (except Juliast), and many
> triton vanish. Juliast (who assumes the position of King) is at a loss
> to explain the dissapearences.
> What This Means: Manawra transported them to the Merry Pirate Seas in
> the Hollow World.
>
IMO Manawra should have invented a logical story to explain the sudden
disappearance of such a big number of tritons.
Any ideas? Maybe Juliast simply believes that they died in an ambush.
This is important, because it can foment the new king's hatred against
devilfish.
> Spring 1009 Triton Exodus
>
> Descr: Juliast leads the surviving triton and merrow on a mass exodus.
> Their destination: Aquas in Alphatia.
> What This Means: Juliast is acting on visions sent to him fom Manawra.
> The Sea of Dread will become even more deserving of its name as a
> devilfish cleric discovers a spell that prottects devilfisf from the
> sun's harmful effects. Devilfish using this spell will begin to sink
> ships sailing through the Sea of Dread.
Good idea, but I think that a potion suits better than a spell for this
task. After all, we have potions of waterbreathing...
One last question: have you developed stats for the armies involved in
the war? The Sea Giants Force, for example.
Oh, BTW, really a good work! :)
- -Diego
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 16:37:30 -0400
From: wjnowackl@MEM.po.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline AC 1005-1009
>wjnowackl@MEM.po.com wrote:
>>
>> Winter 1008 Triton Vanish
>>
>> Descr: Queen Tarovra, the survivng barons (except Juliast), and many
>> triton vanish. Juliast (who assumes the position of King) is at a
loss
>> to explain the dissapearences.
>> What This Means: Manawra transported them to the Merry Pirate Seas in
>> the Hollow World.
>>
>IMO Manawra should have invented a logical story to explain the sudden
>disappearance of such a big number of tritons.
>Any ideas? Maybe Juliast simply believes that they died in an ambush.
>This is important, because it can foment the new king's hatred against
>devilfish.
Good idea. I forgot about that. I'll have to think about it.
>> Spring 1009 Triton Exodus
>>
>> Descr: Juliast leads the surviving triton and merrow on a mass
exodus.
>> Their destination: Aquas in Alphatia.
>> What This Means: Juliast is acting on visions sent to him fom
Manawra.
>> The Sea of Dread will become even more deserving of its name as a
>> devilfish cleric discovers a spell that prottects devilfish from the
>> sun's harmful effects. Devilfish using this spell will begin to sink
>> ships sailing through the Sea of Dread.
>
>Good idea, but I think that a potion suits better than a spell for this
>task. After all, we have potions of waterbreathing...
I think PC3 states that potions cannot be used or made underwater as the
seawater contaminates the potion.
>One last question: have you developed stats for the armies involved in
>the war? The Sea Giants Force, for example.
Not yet but I'll work on that after the AC 1010-1014 timeline.
>Oh, BTW, really a good work! :)
>-Diego
Thank you.
Aaron Nowack
"Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 19:05:43 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
At 18.56 12/09/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Who is putting the next/current almanac together, and how can I offer some
>help?
Since there's are several newbies on the mailing list I post this directly
to the list so that everyone can read it.
Net-Almanac Project Manager: Micheal Roy <mroy@cyberus.com>
Assistants: Herve Musseau <herve@hotmail.com> NACE, Alphatia...
Cthulhudrew <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU> humanoids, Orclands, Atruaghin...
Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it> Shadow Elves, Aengmor...
Marco Dalmonte <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it> Wendar, Norwold....
Thorfinn Tait <Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk> Hollow World....
Sorry if I forget someone, only Micheal knows everyone :-)
If you want to help the best thing to do is write to Micheal Roy, anyway I
fear you're too late for the 1015 Almanac, which is supposed to be ready
for December.
That's all.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 07:37:10 +0200
From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline AC 1005
>Spring 1005 Devilfish Rites
>
>Descr: The devilfish capture Hammish McGregor. They attempt to use his
>life energy to summon and control a kraken. Fourtunatly, a band of
>adventurers foil their plans.
>What This Means: This is a major setback for Saasaks.
>DM's Note: This is the adventure Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea (from
>PC3). The rest of this timeline assumes that the PCs (if you play the
>adventure) succeed.
I just played this adventure IMC. I played it as sequel to X7, where the
Velya tried to summon and free an burrower, and the PCs just got in at the
wrong time, so he was freed but not bound. The Devilfish then tried to bind
it at their tempel (burrower=kraken), but the council of Mystara gave Thor
the right to boost the abilities of one of his paladins(PC) to match the
burrower.
>[Mystara] Undersea Timeline AC 1005-1009
I have liked it very much, thank you!
************************************************************
Peter Balazs
Wurlitzerg. 37/12
1160 Wien
0222/4816030
a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at
pbalazs@radon.mat.univie.ac.at
http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 06:05:22 PDT
From: "Davide Bucci" <davidebucci@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Smash Maneuver
"I may be seen to contradict myself here, but I do however believe there
has to be some consideration by the DM of the situation. You can have
mutiple attacks and multiple smashes only in ideal circumstances. I
suggest that a DM might rule that in some circumstances your smash
attacks are limited.
e.g. DM rules that the situation is not ideal for a smash attack, and
rules that of my three attacks, one has to be used to readjust position
during swings. So I have a combination of two smash attacks and a
movement."
I don't understand what you mean for "ideal circumstances"...
Have I got to have the monster inviting me to hit himself hard to do a
smash attack? Or should I be in a particolar good day?
However, surely the companion rule for multiple attacks and smashes is
far away to be clear.
Davide Bucci
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:53:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
In a message dated 97-09-14 18:21:30 EDT, you write:
<< Net-Almanac Project Manager: Micheal Roy <mroy@cyberus.com>
Assistants: Herve Musseau <herve@hotmail.com> NACE, Alphatia...
Cthulhudrew <jsmill@IMAP1.ASU.EDU> humanoids, Orclands, Atruaghin...
Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it> Shadow Elves, Aengmor...
Marco Dalmonte <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it> Wendar, Norwold....
Thorfinn Tait <Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk> Hollow World.... >>
Thanks. I have a few interesting and logical ideas that have not been touched
upon. Perhaps they may be seen as worthy enough to be included in one of the
Net Almanacs.
Here is a quick overview--
Alphatia (HW)- Reestablish contact with KW kingdoms. Begins buiding skyships
capable of the journey. A bit of anarchy as the conflicting details and
inconsistancies of being in HW begin to add up. Haldemar and the Princess Ark
return to the KW. Zandor escapes and is hunted down.
Heldannic Territories- Internal conflict as the true believers clash with the
heretics. Warbird base on Davania comes into play.
Ethengar- War with Glantri brewing (again).
Thyatis- Eusebius discovers his fathers personal diaries (many suprises).
Makes moves to repair its economy, imperial pride, and international standing
by conquest. Trouble in the Hinterlands with renegade Clans and their Emerond
allies. Flying City of Serrainne within reach of Thyatis's legions. Thyatian
Skyships "developed" from stolen plans from Aeria. Eusebius's wife dies. Duke
of Machetos dies leaving the Duchy to one of the Karameikos family members.
Karameikos- Beginning of construction of the Karameikan Royal Air Force
(skyship).
Suprise appointment of Justin Karameikos to be the Duke of Machetos. Return
of the Farseeker expedition from HW. School of Magecraft opens second
university.
NACE- Begins building its own skyships. standard war variety and ones simular
to those being constructed on Alphatia (HW). Gains a non Alphatian member.
Expands influence on rest of KW. Regains control of Alatian Islands.
Glantri- Rivalry between Brannart and Morphail intesnifies. Dolores unmasked.
Internal split among House Sylaire and its allies. Etienne reappears
officially. Innocenti meets his match. Belcadiz share in the Erewan's
troubles.
Shadow Elves- Civil war. Cut off eastern Darokin.
Wendar- Drawn into war.
Isle of Dawn- Rebellion in Dunadale. Another Treaty signed with Thotia.
Helskir makes alliance. Thyatian kingdoms make bid for independance.
Emerites of Ylaruam- Annex of secluded Darokin territories from Shadow Elf
actions. Internal problems quelled as the "desert blooms" from unexpected
rains.
Minrothad- Assaulted and partially conquered.
Irendi- Assaulted
The Alfheim- Joins in on the Shadow Elf Civil War.
Other- Several serious attempts at exploring and surveying the sunken
continent of Alphatia undertaken by several nations. Bohemoth is researched.
Blackmoor vessel discovered. Arrival of Alphatians from Old Alphatia
Dimension. Flying City of Serraine in trouble. Ixion gets revenge.
Any thought or comments?
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 08:23:40 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
On Mon, 15 Sep 1997 Alex295@aol.com wrote:
> Thanks. I have a few interesting and logical ideas that have not been touched
> upon. Perhaps they may be seen as worthy enough to be included in one of the
> Net Almanacs.
Well, let's have a look. Could always use some more ideas. :)
> Heldannic Territories- Internal conflict as the true believers clash with the
> heretics. Warbird base on Davania comes into play.
There is definite Heldannic goings on this year. I don't believe they
involve the base in Green Bay (which is a bit too far away to be a viable
partner, though I believe, given their proximity to the "remains" of
their patron hero, they would be among the True Believers still).
I do like the thought of touching on the Davanian base down there,
though. Hmm...
> Ethengar- War with Glantri brewing (again).
As per the last Almanac (1014), Ethengar and Glantri are going to war
early in the year. Should make for a lot of interesting surprises. (Not
the least of which is figuring out the logistics of such a war! ;)
> Thyatis- Eusebius discovers his fathers personal diaries (many suprises).
> Makes moves to repair its economy, imperial pride, and international standing
> by conquest. Trouble in the Hinterlands with renegade Clans and their Emerond
> allies. Flying City of Serrainne within reach of Thyatis's legions. Thyatian
> Skyships "developed" from stolen plans from Aeria. Eusebius's wife dies. Duke
> of Machetos dies leaving the Duchy to one of the Karameikos family members.
Got plans for Serraine... which, btw, Thorf, we should probably talk more
about and clarify some things.
As for Machetos, I don't know that it can be left to one of the
Karameikos clan any longer. It was traded to the Empire by Stephen, in
exchange for the lands of Traladara. Technically, it belongs to the
Empire now.
> Karameikos- Beginning of construction of the Karameikan Royal Air Force
> (skyship). Suprise appointment of Justin Karameikos to be the Duke of
> Machetos. Return of the Farseeker expedition from HW. School of
> Magecraft opens second university.
Farseeker expedition returned in 1014 (as per the predictions in
Joshuan's Almanac). I believe there is some work being done as far as
developing airships for the Karameikan army.
> Glantri- Rivalry between Brannart and Morphail intesnifies. Dolores unmasked.
> Internal split among House Sylaire and its allies. Etienne reappears
> officially. Innocenti meets his match. Belcadiz share in the Erewan's
> troubles.
I like the thought of the rivalry with Brannart and Morphail- that might
help some things. Dolores was unmasked last year, and is beginning to
lose much of her influence (Jaggar, her key stooge, having thrown off the
shackles of her control).
The Belcadiz will probably have troubles of their own, what with the
Ethengar invasion (but good idea for more ideas! :)
Also, expect some other internal politicking to take place. Glantri
remains a hotbed for political intrigue. :)
> Minrothad- Assaulted and partially conquered.
By who?
> Irendi- Assaulted
By who?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:59:38 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Another Planescape/Mystara thought
At 00.34 13/09/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 97-09-12 22:54:52 EDT, ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu writes:
>> Has anyone else concluded that the Lady of Pain may be an Old One? >>
>
>She has the ability to exclude powers or gods from Sigil, so she must
>certainly be of that level of power, I would think.
Mmh.. IIRC immortals can manipulate the physical and magical laws of their
home planes, isn't it? What if she simply ruled that in her own homeplane
(Sigil) no God or Immortal in his manifestation form or avatar could enter
(spending huge amount of PPs to achieve this)? IN this case she need not be
an Old One..
It's just a hypothesis, however: i really don't know anything about our Lady.
DM
dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/3090
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V2 #138
*****************************
From: owner-mystara-digest@ (mystara-digest)
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #139
Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
Sender: owner-mystara-digest@
Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@
Precedence: bulk
mystara-digest Tuesday, September 16 1997 Volume 02 : Number 139
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 13:00:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Galeifel@aol.com
Subject: [Mystara] future events
As mystaran future develops here on the mailing list, I would be interested
on your thoughts on an event planned for 1020:
In Gaz10 Orcs of Thar (p.4) I found following:
1020: Joint Darokinian and Thyatian operations to protect their interests.
All-out war pits humans vs.orcs.
Now for a long time I thought this was one of these alternate futures which
had been cancelled due to WotI, but then I found following remark by Ursula
Bremen in Joshuan's Almanac:
Nevertheless, the danger to merchants and other travelers through this sector
of the trade route (the eastern Broken Lands) is much as it ever was.
Sir, I have the honor to suggest to you that Darokin could [censored]
Do other people out there also think that the two things are connected? Will
there really be a war between Darokin/Thyatis and the Broken Lands?
Also, here are a few ideas for the AC1015 almanac (of course I don't know
what has been incorporated in the AC1014 almanac, so...)
Minrothad/Thyatis treaty on Aegos expires (guess you know this)
Wulf von Klagendorf dies (after all he's 83 and doesn't seem to magically
lengthen his life)
Maeragh Littlelaughs, Sildil Seaeyes and Delune Darkeyes retire (all have
served mor than the usual dozen of years in office)
Garafaele Galeifel
Radiant General of the City of Stars
Warlord of Aengmor
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 13:32:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
Alex295@aol.com pontificated:
>
> Suprise appointment of Justin Karameikos to be the Duke of Machetos. Return
> of the Farseeker expedition from HW. School of Magecraft opens second
> university.
I don't think the Karameikos family have any claim to Machetos anymore.
Beside, I always think Machetos should be left relitively as an
relitivly uninfluential place, as it is one of the best place for PC
to take over (currently weak, but have good potential, in a potential
politically hot spot, etc makes for good role-playing). So been
unimportant, it can be transfered to a PC control without too much
modification to timeline.
John Yu
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 13:43:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Wassellj@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Smash Maneuver
In a message dated 15/09/97 13:31:09, you write:
<< I don't understand what you mean for "ideal circumstances"...
Have I got to have the monster inviting me to hit himself hard to do a
smash attack? Or should I be in a particolar good day?
However, surely the companion rule for multiple attacks and smashes is
far away to be clear. >>
Yes its clear that you can have multiple attacks and I know that you are
probably just taking the piss, but that is the definition in the Rule Book.
Yes I can read the rule book as good as anyone.
And did I not just give you an explanation where the character has to make
use of movement ? What if you are fighting two opponents, you have to make a
movement to adjust for another swing. It is for a DM to rule, and if he or
she thinks there is a obstacle in the way to getting your two/three/four
attacks then that's that.
Yep and I agree that if the monster is inviting me to hit him hard, that is
ideal circumstances - good call. But in reality, sorry in role-playing, that
just does not happen very often.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 12:43:27 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: [Mystara] Re: Psionics in Alphatia
On Sun, 14 Sep 1997 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote:
>
> But the real distinction that I was trying to draw was between true
> spellcasters (which would include Clerics, Mages, and Psionicists),
> who can improve their abilities and gain new powers with experience,
> and those individuals who have magical talents that are fixed in
> terms of power. The latter type would include Wild Talents as well
> as most monsters who have racial magical talents.
I agree. I could see reasons for Wild Talents being treated as Psionics
simply because of their raltaed nature though..
Ofcourse then you have tha Magical abilities matter again, which clarely
should not be a qualification for nobility. IMO anyway...
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 13:01:25 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Psionics
On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, brunciak wrote:
> David 'Azure' Leland wrote:
>
> > I'd think it would look more like this:
> >
> > Energy --> Magic-User/Wizard, Wokan, and Fairie magic
> > Thought --> Psionics, Mystic powers
> > Matter --> Technology
> > Time --> Clerical/Priestly, Shamanic magic
> > Entropy --> n/a, or Demon/Fiend magic
> I agree with most of this. However, since all of these points deal with
> mystical abilities in one way or another (magic, psionics, powers,
> etc.), wouldn't mystical sciences such as alchemy and others (such as
> the ones detailed in Glantri) be more appropriate than technology for
> matter (even though technology is still good)?
Aren't Alchemy and Technology related?
Priestly magic would IMO be a different matter. As I see it, Clerics use
powers drawn from their Immortal who draws it directly from the Sphere
he/she/it belongs to.
On the matter of Entropy:
I discussed this with a firend of mine and we came up with the theory that
Entropy is not a sphere in the same manner as the others. It represents
the opposition of all the spheres, thus it embodies a powers representing
each sphere:
(Using David Azure Leland's model)
Energy: Black Magic, Necromancy
Matter: Destructive/dark technology, Nuclear bombs
Thought: Dark side Psionics?
Time: Evil Shamanism?
These are just ideas. Haven't given them all that much thougt yet, so
please comment..
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 12:39:20 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline and other stuff)
On Sun, 14 Sep 1997 Magesmiley@aol.com wrote:
> This is what i was trying to point out earlier a line has to be drawn
> somewhere as to what determines if someone qualifies as a spellcaster or not
> for purposes of qualifying for Alphatian nobility. The cleanest distinction
> I could come up with was the source of someone's/something's spell-like
> abilities and these I derived from page 7 of the Complete Psionicists
> Handbook, which is this essentially: If someone's or something's abilities
> come from external energy (like those which a magic-user or cleric tap into
> to generate their spells) its considered spellcasting; if it comes from
> internal energy (like that which a psionicist taps into, or natural abilities
> of a race such as infravision, or a dragon's breath weapon, or even a a
> fairy's invisible to mortals ability) it is not spellcasting (even if the
> ability might act like or even be magical).
> Opinions anyone? This was the best line I could draw which is reasonably
> clean, and doesn't have us going in circles saying what about this or what
> about that.
I don't think Technical matters are all that important in this issue.
Psionics are not magic. However, it is a science allowing you do more than
commoners. Thus I'd say it could apply as a qualification for nobility.
However, this might depend on how established psionics are in Alphationa
society. I suggest that it has been known for ages. This would make it an
established science, probably higly respected. If it, on the other
hand, is a relatively new concept as suggested elsewhere, reactions to it
may be very different. There may even be a political debate on the matter
in contemporary Alphatia.
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:14:28 +0200
From: Cristiano <Cristiano.Perani@spm.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A List Survey
Hy everyone,
A silent lurker uncover himself
Name: Cristiano Perani
e-mail: Cristiano.Perani@spm.it, Krys@spm.it
website: None
Location: Albino, Bergamo, Italy
Age: I'm born 6/9/71 - I'm 26
Profession: I've just graduated as doctor in medicine
Marital status: I've a girlfriend and it's enought for me now.
Interests: Really a lot, but so few time .... sigh ...
Started playng RPG: I play only OD&D, the first time when I was about 14
Compaign playng: WotI, 1007 with a group of PC from Karameikos.
Bye
Cristiano (Krys)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:25:16 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
At 10.53 15/09/97 -0400, Alex wrote:
>Thanks. I have a few interesting and logical ideas that have not been touched
>upon. Perhaps they may be seen as worthy enough to be included in one of the
>Net Almanacs.
Cthulhudrew already replied you about some of this topics, I'll give my
opinion about the shadowelvish ones.
>
>Shadow Elves- Civil war. Cut off eastern Darokin.
>
Yes, there'll be a civil war, but with several surprises...
Anyway Darokin won't be involved in this civil war.
>Wendar- Drawn into war.
>
True, but not the shadowelvish one
>The Alfheim- Joins in on the Shadow Elf Civil War.
Well, in a certain way...
>Any thought or comments?
>
I like some of your ideas, unfortunately they probably come a bit too late.
Much of the work has already been done. Obviously nothing prevents us from
changing our timeline draft, but in some cases it could be really hard.
If only you had suggested it a few months ago.... :(
- --------------
Fabrizio Paoli
brizio@lunet.it
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
- --------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:29:03 +0100
From: Steve Parker <SteveParker@azorius.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Mystara] future events
- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCC21E.6E14DE00
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,
I've been looking at something similar in my campaign. I have a group of =
4 PC's who've joined the Darokin army (heavily remodelled by myself) and =
are currently part of a Reconnaisance Unit checking out current Humanoid =
activity. I am hoping to blow the=20
whole thing up into a major confrontation, possibly involving Thyatis, =
Karameikos and
Ylaruam as well as Darokin ( I would have these 4 allied against the =
Humanoids.)
Kind Regards
Steve Parker
- -----Original Message-----
From: Galeifel@aol.com [SMTP:Galeifel@aol.com]
Sent: 15 September 1997 18:00
To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
Subject: [Mystara] future events
As mystaran future develops here on the mailing list, I would be =
interested
on your thoughts on an event planned for 1020:
In Gaz10 Orcs of Thar (p.4) I found following:
1020: Joint Darokinian and Thyatian operations to protect their =
interests.
All-out war pits humans vs.orcs.
Now for a long time I thought this was one of these alternate futures =
which
had been cancelled due to WotI, but then I found following remark by =
Ursula
Bremen in Joshuan's Almanac:
Nevertheless, the danger to merchants and other travelers through this =
sector
of the trade route (the eastern Broken Lands) is much as it ever was.
Sir, I have the honor to suggest to you that Darokin could [censored]
Do other people out there also think that the two things are connected? =
Will
there really be a war between Darokin/Thyatis and the Broken Lands?
Also, here are a few ideas for the AC1015 almanac (of course I don't =
know
what has been incorporated in the AC1014 almanac, so...)
Minrothad/Thyatis treaty on Aegos expires (guess you know this)
Wulf von Klagendorf dies (after all he's 83 and doesn't seem to =
magically
lengthen his life)
Maeragh Littlelaughs, Sildil Seaeyes and Delune Darkeyes retire (all =
have
served mor than the usual dozen of years in office)
Garafaele Galeifel
Radiant General of the City of Stars
Warlord of Aengmor
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:11:07 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] future events
At 13.00 15/09/97 -0400, you wrote:
>As mystaran future develops here on the mailing list, I would be interested
>on your thoughts on an event planned for 1020:
>
>In Gaz10 Orcs of Thar (p.4) I found following:
>
>1020: Joint Darokinian and Thyatian operations to protect their interests.
>All-out war pits humans vs.orcs.
<snip>
>
>Do other people out there also think that the two things are connected? Will
>there really be a war between Darokin/Thyatis and the Broken Lands?
>
In our 1014 AC net-Almanac we had Oenkmar raised back on the surface by
Shadow Elves.
Now we have the Eastern Broken Lands (roughly the area formerly known as
Broken Lands) controlled by Shadow Elves and without humanoids (at least
not many and not well organized as before WotI), while the Western Broken
Lands (the Great Crater and vicinity) are under Kol's control.
According to this there won't obviously be a humans vs. orcs war. Anyway
nothing prevents a humans vs. shadow elves war (except me :) and a human
vs. Orclands dwellers war.
BTW: since the Eastern Broken Lands are now under Shadow Elf control travel
between Darokin and Glantri (or Ethengar) is highly dangerous (I would say
suicidal).
Anyway you'll se more about this hot area in next almanac :)
>Garafaele Galeifel
>
>Radiant General of the City of Stars
>Warlord of Aengmor
>
I guess you won't be Warlord of Aengmor for a long time... anyway you'll be
one of the main characters in 1015... but I don't want to tell you more...
Rafiel
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com
DM in City Of The Stars - PC in the Forgotten Realms
Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:52:07 -0400
From: wjnowackl@MEM.po.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline AC 1005
>>Spring 1005 Devilfish Rites
>>
>>Descr: The devilfish capture Hammish McGregor. They attempt to use
his
>>life energy to summon and control a kraken. Fourtunatly, a band of
>>adventurers foil their plans.
>>What This Means: This is a major setback for Saasaks.
>>DM's Note: This is the adventure Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea (from
>>PC3). The rest of this timeline assumes that the PCs (if you play the
>>adventure) succeed.
>
>I just played this adventure IMC. I played it as sequel to X7, where
the
>Velya tried to summon and free an burrower, and the PCs just got in at
the
>wrong time, so he was freed but not bound. The Devilfish then tried to
bind
>it at their tempel (burrower=kraken), but the council of Mystara gave
Thor
>the right to boost the abilities of one of his paladins(PC) to match
the
>burrower.
I don't have X7, so I can't really comment on this. However the
adventure can be played almost anytime before the triton exodus and
have no effect on the timeline... assuming the PCs are victorious.
>>[Mystara] Undersea Timeline AC 1005-1009
>
>I have liked it very much, thank you!
You're welcome.
Aaron Nowack
"Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:20:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Magesmiley@aol.com
Subject: Re: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline and other stuff)
>>>I don't think Technical matters are all that important in this issue.
>>>Psionics are not magic. However, it is a science allowing you do more than
>>>commoners. Thus I'd say it could apply as a qualification for nobility.
The point I have been trying to make is more that Alphatian nobility's
requirement is: "...has the ability to use magic and can be taught a
spell..." (thats straight from established material, specifically DotE Book 3
p.16 under Aristocrat). No magic and spellcasting, no nobility. You're free
to treat psionicists as if they are magic-users in your campaign, but in the
"official" version of Alphatia I think the case is pretty strong against
their being allowed to be nobles. I do believe however that if you do allow
psionicists to become nobles in Alphatia it will detract from the nation's
uniqueness and character.
As far as technical matters, I do believe it is relevant, remember that
the Alphatian Empire is thousands of years old and will have made a line
somewhere that decides who can and can not be a noble.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:49:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mystaros@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
In a message dated 97-09-15 11:43:12 EDT, you write:
<< As for Machetos, I don't know that it can be left to one of the
Karameikos clan any longer. It was traded to the Empire by Stephen, in
exchange for the lands of Traladara. Technically, it belongs to the
Empire now. >>
IIRC, after Thincol bled it dry he granted the Duchy to Callastian Jowdynites
as a fief; if the Duke of Machetos has no heirs, he might be able to bequeath
it to whomever he "adopts" as an heir, pending approval by the Emperor and/or
Senate, of course. There is a cultural continuity with the Karameikans, of
course, though there would also be a faction in the Duchy that feels that
they were abandoned by Stefan all those years ago, and might not like the
return of a Karameikos... also, it does seem somewhat odd that the bitter,
old Jowdynites would bequeath the Duchy to the Karameikans, as he would feel
that they were to blame for the state the Duchy was in when he received it...
Mystaros
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:06:51 +0200
From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
Hi!
>> Suprise appointment of Justin Karameikos to be the Duke of Machetos. Return
>> of the Farseeker expedition from HW. School of Magecraft opens second
>> university.
>
>I don't think the Karameikos family have any claim to Machetos anymore.
I also think that, BUT I also think that it could just be a clever
experiment of Eusebius to get the Karameikos Family again involved in
Thyatian Politics. At least it would be a notion of trust and friendship
between this two nations!
************************************************************
Peter Balazs
Wurlitzerg. 37/12
1160 Wien
0222/4816030
a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at
pbalazs@radon.mat.univie.ac.at
http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 07:32:03 PDT
From: "Herve Musseau" <herve@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
>Thanks. I have a few interesting and logical ideas that have not been
touched
>upon. Perhaps they may be seen as worthy enough to be included in one
of the
>Net Almanacs.
>
>Here is a quick overview--
I'll answer for my part and some other generic stuff, Brizio and Cthul
already have commented other parts.
>Alphatia (HW)- Reestablish contact with KW kingdoms. Begins buiding
skyships
>capable of the journey. A bit of anarchy as the conflicting details and
>inconsistancies of being in HW begin to add up. Haldemar and the
Princess Ark
>return to the KW. Zandor escapes and is hunted down.
Most of this is scheduled, though I'm not sure we'll have the Princess
Ark returning to the outer world already.
Something I forgot is the inconsistancies in Alphatian timeline, I'll
have to address that - thanks for reminding it to me.
>Heldannic Territories- Internal conflict as the true believers clash
with the
>heretics. Warbird base on Davania comes into play.
>
>Ethengar- War with Glantri brewing (again).
Those two already mentioned by Cthul.
>Thyatis- Eusebius discovers his fathers personal diaries (many
suprises).
>Makes moves to repair its economy, imperial pride, and international
standing
>by conquest. Trouble in the Hinterlands with renegade Clans and their
Emerond
>allies. Flying City of Serrainne within reach of Thyatis's legions.
Thyatian
>Skyships "developed" from stolen plans from Aeria. Eusebius's wife
dies. Duke
>of Machetos dies leaving the Duchy to one of the Karameikos family
members.
>
Michael has many plans in mind for Thyatis.
I too think that the Karamikos are unlikely to be the heirs of Machetos
anymore.
As for Serraine, could you tell me Thorf and Cthul when your events will
take place? I know the basics of what will happen, but I have an event
involving the NACE and Serraine, so I need to know where will be the
gnome faction at that time (in other words, the trade opportunity is
either just that, or a way for the gnomes to finance their faction).
>Karameikos- Beginning of construction of the Karameikan Royal Air Force
>(skyship).
>Suprise appointment of Justin Karameikos to be the Duke of Machetos.
Return
>of the Farseeker expedition from HW. School of Magecraft opens second
>university.
The skyship stuff is already done.
>NACE- Begins building its own skyships. standard war variety and ones
simular
>to those being constructed on Alphatia (HW). Gains a non Alphatian
member.
>Expands influence on rest of KW. Regains control of Alatian Islands.
Ok for skyships, maybe I should insist more on it - I'll see.
Which non-Alphatian member are you thinking to? I have no plans of
having gain new members or taking over the Alatians this year - though
with what's going on in Thyatis (Michael's doing) and in Aegos (my
doing) I bet this is likely to happen next year.
>Glantri- Rivalry between Brannart and Morphail intesnifies. Dolores
unmasked.
>Internal split among House Sylaire and its allies. Etienne reappears
>officially. Innocenti meets his match. Belcadiz share in the Erewan's
>troubles.
>
>Shadow Elves- Civil war. Cut off eastern Darokin.
>
>Wendar- Drawn into war.
Brizio also gave clues on these.
>Isle of Dawn- Rebellion in Dunadale. Another Treaty signed with Thotia.
>Helskir makes alliance. Thyatian kingdoms make bid for independance.
Not so soon. I'd rather wait for the events concocted by Michael for
Thyatis this year before probably proceeding in such a way.
>Emerites of Ylaruam- Annex of secluded Darokin territories from Shadow
Elf
>actions. Internal problems quelled as the "desert blooms" from
unexpected
>rains.
Interesting idea (the rains).
>Minrothad- Assaulted and partially conquered.
>
>Irendi- Assaulted
I'd join Chtul here to ask : By who?
>The Alfheim- Joins in on the Shadow Elf Civil War.
>
>Other- Several serious attempts at exploring and surveying the sunken
>continent of Alphatia undertaken by several nations. Bohemoth is
researched.
>Blackmoor vessel discovered. Arrival of Alphatians from Old Alphatia
>Dimension. Flying City of Serraine in trouble. Ixion gets revenge.
Many good ideas in there. Maybe a little late for this year though.
Blackmoor vessel : What is it? Who discovers it? Where?
Old Alphatia : What kind of Alphatians? Both the followers of the flame
and air have already migrated to Mystara long ago. Not sure I like this.
Serraine : see Cthul's mail.
Ixion : Hmmm. I think the Old One's intervention cooled him...
>Any thought or comments?
>
>Alex
__________________________________________________________
Herve Musseau
Primary Email: herve@hotmail.com
Also: hmusseau@compuserve.com
Homepage: http://www.esiee.fr/~musseauh (not anymore it seems)
I'm a QSQWBEEEGGNFR Mystaran
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 15:55:38 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] future events
On Mon, 15 Sep 1997, Fabrizio Paoli wrote:
> In our 1014 AC net-Almanac we had Oenkmar raised back on the surface by
> Shadow Elves.
> Now we have the Eastern Broken Lands (roughly the area formerly known as
> Broken Lands) controlled by Shadow Elves and without humanoids (at least
> not many and not well organized as before WotI), while the Western Broken
> Lands (the Great Crater and vicinity) are under Kol's control.
Don't forget the Orclands- lawless territories in Darokin's Northwestern
region that are firmly under the control of goblinoids and a Red Dragon.
> According to this there won't obviously be a humans vs. orcs war. Anyway
> nothing prevents a humans vs. shadow elves war (except me :) and a human
> vs. Orclands dwellers war.
Yup, yup. We have definite long-term plans to make that 1020 AC war vs.
orcs become a reality. At this point, it just remains to be seen exactly
which gobliniod territory will be under seige, though.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:47:57 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline and other stuff)
On Mon, 15 Sep 1997 Magesmiley@aol.com wrote:
> >>>I don't think Technical matters are all that important in this issue.
> >>>Psionics are not magic. However, it is a science allowing you do more than
> >>>commoners. Thus I'd say it could apply as a qualification for nobility.
> The point I have been trying to make is more that Alphatian nobility's
> requirement is: "...has the ability to use magic and can be taught a
> spell..." (thats straight from established material, specifically DotE Book 3
> p.16 under Aristocrat). No magic and spellcasting, no nobility. You're free
> to treat psionicists as if they are magic-users in your campaign, but in the
> "official" version of Alphatia I think the case is pretty strong against
> their being allowed to be nobles. I do believe however that if you do allow
> psionicists to become nobles in Alphatia it will detract from the nation's
> uniqueness and character.
> As far as technical matters, I do believe it is relevant, remember that
> the Alphatian Empire is thousands of years old and will have made a line
> somewhere that decides who can and can not be a noble.
My point is, that even if the difference between Magic and Psi is obvious
to us(IMO mainly because it uses different game mechanics), it may not be
so to the people of Alphatia. They may not be taught a spell, but they may
be taught a psi power. After all a Cleric cannot be taught a mages
spell and a mage cannot learn a clerical spell, so I'd say the difference
between psi and wizardly magic is no greater that the difference between
wizardly magic and prienstly magic. Ofcourse this may vary depending on
how you see the world. The main difference as it appears to people in
mystara is not how it is performed, but the source, and the source is as
differs greatly in all three schools.
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nvg.nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:05:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline and other stuff)
Magesmiley@aol.com pontificated:
>
> The point I have been trying to make is more that Alphatian nobility's
> requirement is: "...has the ability to use magic and can be taught a
> spell..."
Oops, I didn't remember about the part of able to be taught a spell.
Ignore what I said before :)
John Yu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:18:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Psionics
Haavard Roenne Faanes pontificated:
>
> On the matter of Entropy:
> I discussed this with a firend of mine and we came up with the theory that
> Entropy is not a sphere in the same manner as the others. It represents
> the opposition of all the spheres, thus it embodies a powers representing
> each sphere:
> (Using David Azure Leland's model)
>
> Energy: Black Magic, Necromancy
> Matter: Destructive/dark technology, Nuclear bombs
> Thought: Dark side Psionics?
> Time: Evil Shamanism?
Am I the only one that feel Entropy is not necessaryly evil, just
"different"?
John Yu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:15:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
I have only been on the list for a few months. Wish I had joined up earlier.
Still these are some pretty good ideas. With a little "tweeking" the events
could be moved up a year or so.
<< Heldannic Territories- Internal conflict as the true believers clash with
the
heretics. Warbird base on Davania comes into play.
There is definite Heldannic goings on this year. I don't believe they
involve the base in Green Bay (which is a bit too far away to be a viable
partner, though I believe, given their proximity to the "remains" of
their patron hero, they would be among the True Believers still).>>
Well I envisioned the Knights at Green Bay as being more along the lines of
Vanya's warriors. In short, they would be the most devout. Due to their
situation and isolation they have been more kind to the civilians that work
the fields, work on the warbirds, craft necessities of life, and so on. It is
these Knights that strongly oppose their counterparts on Brun and try to
enact changes. As those changes fail to materialize, Green Bay breaks away
from the Knights of the Territories. Some even begin planning a Holy War
against "their corrupted brethren". Should play pretty good. Heldannic
Knights as good guys.
<<Ethengar- War with Glantri brewing (again).
As per the last Almanac (1014), Ethengar and Glantri are going to war
early in the year. Should make for a lot of interesting surprises. (Not
the least of which is figuring out the logistics of such a war! ;)>>
I too have the Ethengar butting heads with the Glantrians. IMO the problem
that killed the Ethengar's previous attempts were their lack of infantry. On
the plains the Hords are invincible. Put them in the hilly and forested lands
of Glantri and they fail. Since no self respecting Ethengarian would assume
the role of a foot soldier, infantry would have to come from another
kingdom(s).
<< Thyatis- Eusebius discovers his fathers personal diaries (many suprises).
Makes moves to repair its economy, imperial pride, and international
standing
by conquest. Trouble in the Hinterlands with renegade Clans and their
Emerond
allies. Flying City of Serrainne within reach of Thyatis's legions.
Thyatian
Skyships "developed" from stolen plans from Aeria. Eusebius's wife dies.
Duke
of Machetos dies leaving the Duchy to one of the Karameikos family members.
Got plans for Serraine... which, btw, Thorf, we should probably talk more
about and clarify some things.>>
Serraine comes with Thyatian reach as Thyatis builds its own skyships and
expands Retebius Air Fleet. Also, Serraine experiences some technical
difficulties and must land to make repairs (ends up being a complete
overhaul). Originally the gnomes set a course for Aeria but are forced to
land in a shallow area in the New Alphatian Sea.
BTW the Thyatian skyships are based on plans developed while Aeria was under
Thyatian occupation. Eusebius dispatched adventurers to retreive his plans.
The party was captured by University personel. Under magical interrogation,
they reveal the reason for their intrusion. The University personel alter the
plans to make the constructed skyships structurally weak. They then use
spells to alter the adventurers' memories so that they think they succeeded
in their mission. The plans are delivered to Thyatis.
<<As for Machetos, I don't know that it can be left to one of the
Karameikos clan any longer. It was traded to the Empire by Stephen, in
exchange for the lands of Traladara. Technically, it belongs to the
Empire now.>>
Duke Callastian falls ill and is on his death bed. Refusing any clerical aid
to survive, he drafts his last will and testament. Since he has no heir, he
searches his memory for someone to assume the role of Duke and do the Duchy
justice. His first choice is to leave it to its former lord Stefan and have
him annex Machetos into Karameikos. The Duke realizes that Stefan has done
much to make Karameikos prosper. He feels that the same could be done for
Machetos. However, he knows that Eusebius will be very angry and will do
anything to keep the "traitor Stefan" away from Thyatian holdings. The Duke
has heard many good things about Stefan's son, Justin. He is skilled in
commerce and trade; two items that the Duke feels are important to Machetos.
The Duke also feels that the Karameikan name will be well excepted by the
populace. Formally leaving the Duchy to Justin Karameikos is also a way that
the Duke can show his disgust and anger at how Machetos was stripped by
Thincol as it was given to him.
The Duke dispatthes several copies of his last will andtestament to the
people of Machetos, Justin Karameikos, and Eusebius. At first, the Emperor is
livid. However, the Imperial magist, Demetrion Karagenteropolus, offers his
advise. Demetrion strongly suggests that Eusebius lets the matter stand as
the Duke wants it. Demetrion is in disagreement about Thyatis's plans of
conquests. He feels that Machetos would act as a buffer zone between Thyatis
and Karameikos. He also realizes the Duke's reasons and agrees with them.
Both Anaxibius and Stefania protest this. Anaxibius wanting to have his
father placed as Duke. Eusebius and Demetrion are at odds with the two.
Eusebius for their rumored plans to break away from Imperial rule. Demetrion
for their wanting to place an inept person in charge of a difficult
situation. Eusebius, angered at some remark Stefania made, orders the will as
official. He later consoles his hasty decision by contemplating turning
Justin against his father Stefan.
In Karameikos, the royal family is shocked at the Duke's will. Stefan feels
it is a trap. Justin is wary of the position for the sole reason of having to
rule. Still, he is tempted by the prospect of building the trade and economy
of Machetos. Convincing himself that his father will offer him advise on
political matters, he accepts the position.
In Machetos, the choice of Justin Karameikos is well received. In general,
most of the populace feels good about the return of a Karameikos to rule.
Many contemplate Machetos being annexed into Karameikos. Most are just happy
about the prospects of a brighter future that they believe will mirror that
of Karameikos.
<< Karameikos- Beginning of construction of the Karameikan Royal Air Force
(skyship). Suprise appointment of Justin Karameikos to be the Duke of
Machetos. Return of the Farseeker expedition from HW. School of
Magecraft opens second university.
Farseeker expedition returned in 1014 (as per the predictions in
Joshuan's Almanac). I believe there is some work being done as far as
developing airships for the Karameikan army.>>
Oops...concerning Farseeker. How about a Farseeker 2 Expedition. Better
equipped and knowing what to expect, a more thorough venture could be
launched.
The Karameikan Skyships are being developed by the Terari and the School
(with help from Aeria, of course). The Skyships will not be along the scale
of Alphatian Man of War. They will be smaller craft designed to carry a dozen
or so troops and a handfull of catapults and ballista. Their role is mainly
to patrol and defend the borders.
<<Glantri- Rivalry between Brannart and Morphail intesnifies. Dolores
unmasked.
Internal split among House Sylaire and its allies. Etienne reappears
officially. Innocenti meets his match. Belcadiz share in the Erewan's
troubles.
I like the thought of the rivalry with Brannart and Morphail- that might
help some things. Dolores was unmasked last year, and is beginning to
lose much of her influence (Jaggar, her key stooge, having thrown off the
shackles of her control).>>
Should have said Dolores is unmasked before the Council. Her true nature as
Synn is exposed.
The internal strife in House Sylaire is from a nasty confrontation between
Malachie and Dame Genevieve de Sephora. The affair splits Averoigne as
members choose sides. Matter is made worse as Etienne announces his fondness
for Sephora.
The Morphail/Brannart deal is something I have played with a bit. Brannart
begins summoning undead minions to throw up against Morphail. Morphail
destroys them as they enter his domain. However, each new series of creatures
is becoming harder to handle. Still, Morphail does not retaliate. He feels
that since he is the Grand Master of Necromancy, he is to defend and show
Brannart that he can take anything the lich can throw at him. Deep in his
mind, Morphail feels doubts as to his future. Morphail has studied up on
Lichdom and knows how powerful they are. He is afraid that should he have to
meet Brannart in a duel, he might perish. Especially since he has come to a
basic understanding as to the potential power of the Radiance.
<<The Belcadiz will probably have troubles of their own, what with the
Ethengar invasion (but good idea for more ideas! :)>>
Especially if the Erewan were to make some agreement with the Alfheim to join
them in Wendar and Karameikos. And since Wendar is likely to join the
Ethengar due to the hostilities between Glantri and the Erewan........
<<Also, expect some other internal politicking to take place. Glantri
remains a hotbed for political intrigue. :)>>
Especially with all those new Princes from the WotI. Each will compete
strongly for their share of power. All this happening as Glantri is assaulted
from outside and inside.
<<Minrothad- Assaulted and partially conquered.
By who?>>
The Thyatians. The conquest of Minrothad is the first stage of the Thyatian
war plan. Minrothad is a trade rival. It also is positioned to where Thyatis
almost has to conquer it. A small nation with sizeable income, it would be an
easy and profitable conquest.
The whole Minrothad Offensive is actually well planned out by Eusebius. He
stages pirate attacks on shipping to manipulate the Minrothads to allow him
to have his navy patrol the area. First, he threatens to end any and all
trade with Minrothad unless he can be certain Thyatian ships will be safe.
This pressure is helped as several other nations threaten the same measures
as their ships too have been ravaged. The Minrothad government gives in and
grants Thyatian naval forces to patrol. These patrols allow the Thyatians to
gain vital navigation data for the area. The Minrothads even offer to pay for
a large portion of the expense of keeping the Thyatian naval in their waters.
Notice that it says that Minrothad is partially conquered. Things do not go
well for the Thyatian Forces. Part of their landing forces are assaulted by
pirates from Fire Island. The pirates thought them to be "fat merchant
ships". Several transports are sunk before the Thyatian War Galleys can
destroy the pirates.
With a loss of part of their forces, the Thyatian commanders are hard pressed
to take all of their objectives. Eusebius wisely sues for peace with the
Dwarves and Elves. The rest of the islands are taken. BTW Minrothad City is
taken by a diversionary tactic. A small contigency of troops lay seige, while
a larger force lands on the other side of the island and marches across to
assault the capital. The Minrothad garrison, feels confident that they can
handle the forces laying seige. They have heard of the pirate attacks on the
troop convoy and feel certain that these are all of the Thyatian forces. So,
before more troops can be sent for, they open the gates and poor out to meet
the Thyatians. Unfortunately, they are hammered between the force of seige
troops and the force that marched across the island.
<< Ierendi- Assaulted
By who? >>
Also assaulted by Thyatis. Since Minrothad is under Thyatian rule, the next
obvious step is to secure Ierendi. This would not only secure the Sea of
Dread, it would also give Thyatis added income and a place for R&R. Also
small, it is percieved to be a quick and easy victory.
Note--All of the Thyatian war plan takes several years to develope. Eusebius
must build the Cohortsand Navy back up to prewar strength and even expand
them. To do this he could easily conscript the dickens out of the populace.
However, he feels that this would be detrimental to the Army's morale and
fighting value. He stresses the benefits of Armed Service, making it trendy
to be a soldier. He focuses these propaganda campaigns on the slums of
Thyatis City and other impoverished areas.
Eusebius also is looking ahead in his bid for dominance. Begins expanding
other forces such as cavalry and Retebius Air Fleet to meet the potential
enemies later on.
To pay for the buildup, Eusebius enacts several decrees to tax the people
that can afford it. Slave owners are taxed yearly for each slave they own.
Even the Games are taxed. Most domestic taxes are small to the individual and
are for the most part acceptable. Other taxes are in the form of tarrifs on
foriegn goods. And ironically, Thyatis takes out several substantual loans
from Minrothad and Ierendi for "domestic use".
Hope this clears some things up.
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V2 #139
*****************************
From: owner-mystara-digest@ (mystara-digest)
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #140
Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
Sender: owner-mystara-digest@
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Precedence: bulk
mystara-digest Tuesday, September 16 1997 Volume 02 : Number 140
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:24:10 +0000
From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
In the message dated Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:53:28 -0400 (EDT), Alex
wrote:
> Here is a quick overview--
> Minrothad- Assaulted and partially conquered.
I don´t know the exact timeline in the almanac 1014 & 1015, but I
think you pay far too less attention to the territory of Minrothad
and Ierendi. I think Minrothad is a perfect place for PC to act on
their own, as the Guilds themselves always try to stay neutral in any
conflict. Therefore it is up to the PC to interact with "worldwide
matters". IMC the PC happened to establish a dominion within the
Guilds and are now preparing for the War (WofI!!).
*But they don´t know yet*
So I think there should be a little more than .. ok, everybody is at
war, ok, so be it in Minrothad, they are attacked!!
> Irendi- Assaulted
I think the same can be said regardinbg Ierendi!!
Sorry, but this area is my site of interest and this is one thing I
always was wondering about. Leaving such a good adventuring site out
of history.
Til next time, Wizzard
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:58:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
I<< I don't think the Karameikos family have any claim to Machetos anymore.
Beside, I always think Machetos should be left relitively as an
relitivly uninfluential place, as it is one of the best place for PC
to take over (currently weak, but have good potential, in a potential
politically hot spot, etc makes for good role-playing). So been
unimportant, it can be transfered to a PC control without too much
modification to timeline.
John Yu >>
I explained Justin's reasons for being given to Justin Karameikos. Spite,
pride, and so on. Duke Callastian has no heir. And being a fairly good man
wishes a good and qualified man to take his place. Justin is a good
candidate. Plus it is sure to tick off Eusebius. Justin is also not the
immediate successor to the Karameikan throne. I feel that he was relieved at
not having to take the role as king. However, I feel that he would become
bored in a role as Court hanger on. I feel that the challenge of rebuilding
the Machetos economy would appeal to Justin's business sense.
You must also remember that this is Thyatis we are talking about. Duke
Callastian was given the Duchy by Thincol. Now that Eusebius is Emperor, if
he approves it is so.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:50:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
<< Shadow Elves- Civil war. Cut off eastern Darokin.
>
Yes, there'll be a civil war, but with several surprises...
Anyway Darokin won't be involved in this civil war.>>
Darokin is brought into the Shadow Elf War by City of the Stars wanting to
turn the surface dwellers against the Shadow Elves of Rafielton and Aengmor.
I forgot to mention in original message that Princess Tanadaleyo had gained
diplomatic ties with Glantri, Darokin, and partial contact with Karameikos
and Wendar through the Alfheim. Rumors of her ideas of breaking away from her
father's rule are rampant. The SE king hopes to show his daughter and her
supporters that the SE can never live peacefully with the surface dwellers.
To do so, King Telemon sends troops to occupy the land corridor that
surrounds the former nation of Alfheim and connects Selenica to the rest of
Darokin. Telemon hopes that the Darokinians will send troops retake the
corridors. He hopes the SE will come together to stave off the humans. Thus,
giving the SE a common goal once again.
Instead of sending troops, the Darokinians are more interested in the trouble
in Glantri and the Thyatian aggresions elsewhere. As long as Selenica isn't
beseiged they will not take any action. During this time, Ylaruam sees the
trouble the city is in and offers to protect the city. Since Selenica is
mostly populated by people of Ylaruam heritage and it is genuinly feared that
the SE will assault the city, it accepts Ylaruam's offer to annex and
protect.
<<Wendar- Drawn into war.
True, but not the shadowelvish one>>
Wendar drawn into war against Glantri on the side of the Ethengar. This is
mostly due to the ill treatment of the Erewan by the Glantrians. Also, it is
feared that the Glantrian resentment will spread to Wendar. And then there is
the trouble brewing in the Heldannic Territories.
<<The Alfheim- Joins in on the Shadow Elf Civil War.
Well, in a certain way...>>
Yes, the Alfheim would be split. Felt that the 1014 Almanac was leading up to
that.
>Any thought or comments?
>
I like some of your ideas, unfortunately they probably come a bit too late.
Much of the work has already been done. Obviously nothing prevents us from
changing our timeline draft, but in some cases it could be really hard.
If only you had suggested it a few months ago.... :(
--------------
Fabrizio Paoli >>
Thanks. I as said before I have only been on the List for a few months.
Perhaps with a bit of tweeking some of these ideas can be used in the next
almanac. Most of these ideas are going to take awhile to evolve. Perhaps when
the current almanac comes out, I will see a few ways to tie some of these in.
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:16:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
<< Suprise appointment of Justin Karameikos to be the Duke of Machetos.
Return
>> of the Farseeker expedition from HW. School of Magecraft opens second
>> university.
>I don't think the Karameikos family have any claim to Machetos anymore.
I also think that, BUT I also think that it could just be a clever
experiment of Eusebius to get the Karameikos Family again involved in
Thyatian Politics. At least it would be a notion of trust and friendship
between this two nations! >>
My point exactly. Justin is of an old Thyatian family. His father a
Karameikan, of course. His mother a distant cousin of the Emperor and of a
prominent and wealthy Thyatian family.
As for trust and friendship, I have to disagree. Though it may be percieved
so at first, the real reason is so-
With Justin running Machetos, it will give a buffer zone between Thyatis and
Karameikos.
Machetos (as well as Thyatis as a whole) is in bad shape economically. Any
improvement in the Duchy would benefit Thyatis.
Eusebius plans on eventually retaking Karameikos. He knows that a direct
assault is expected to go through the western kingdoms. It would be ill
advised for Stefan to place troops near his son's Duchy.
With Justin ruling a Thyatian Duchy, Eusebius has an opportunity to turn the
son against the father.
Also, with Justin ruling a Thyatian Duchy, Eusebius has certain locks on
trade agreements such as grain from Karameikos.
And so on.....
I could go on but I won't. Eusebius is an intelligent and crafty ruler. He
will use Justin's position as Duke to every advantage he can.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:31:14 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu>
Subject: [Mystara] Re: Psionics in Alphatia
On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote:
> My point is, that even if the difference between Magic and Psi is obvious
> to us(IMO mainly because it uses different game mechanics), it may not be
> so to the people of Alphatia. They may not be taught a spell, but they may
> be taught a psi power. After all a Cleric cannot be taught a mages
> spell and a mage cannot learn a clerical spell, so I'd say the difference
> between psi and wizardly magic is no greater that the difference between
> wizardly magic and prienstly magic. Ofcourse this may vary depending on
> how you see the world. The main difference as it appears to people in
> mystara is not how it is performed, but the source, and the source is as
> differs greatly in all three schools.
Thing is, though, that Psionics wouldn't detect as magic by Priestly or
Wizardly spells. It might seem like magic to Alphatians, but it wouldn't
detect as such, which would lead more studious types (and there's plenty
of them in Alphatia) to try and figure out precisely why they don't
detect as magic.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:42:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
In a message dated 97-09-16 04:56:18 EDT, you write:
<< << As for Machetos, I don't know that it can be left to one of the
Karameikos clan any longer. It was traded to the Empire by Stephen, in
exchange for the lands of Traladara. Technically, it belongs to the
Empire now. >>
IIRC, after Thincol bled it dry he granted the Duchy to Callastian
Jowdynites
as a fief; if the Duke of Machetos has no heirs, he might be able to
bequeath
it to whomever he "adopts" as an heir, pending approval by the Emperor
and/or
Senate, of course. There is a cultural continuity with the Karameikans, of
course, though there would also be a faction in the Duchy that feels that
they were abandoned by Stefan all those years ago, and might not like the
return of a Karameikos... also, it does seem somewhat odd that the bitter,
old Jowdynites would bequeath the Duchy to the Karameikans, as he would feel
that they were to blame for the state the Duchy was in when he received
it...
Mystaros >>
Instead of adoption, I prefer appointment. Like you said the matter requires
Eusebius's approval. The Emperor answers to no one. Though I am sure that if
the Magist Demetrion were to approve of the matter, then he would be a strong
lobbyist for it. Demetrion is a pretty good guy (DotE) I feel he would see
the benefits of Justin in the role. For some reason I feel that Demetrion is
well aware of the crap Thincol put Machetos and Duke Callastian through and
sympathizes with the Duke. He may even hope that the appointment will bring
Thyatis and Karameikos closer together.
As for the Duke, I feel that he does feel some anger towards Stefan. If he
didn't, I may even suggest he give the Duchy back to him (simular to Stefan
and Eruul Zaar during WotI). I doubt Thyatis would be willing to go to war
over the small impoverished Duchy when it has plans for its Cohorts
elsewhere. In DotE, it mentions Duke Callastian's hatred for Thincol for
stripping Machetos of its crops and slaves. May be a way for the old duke to
thumb his nose at the son of the man (Eusebius) that placed the burden upon
him.
Justin is a different matter. The lad has little to look forward to as he is
not to be King. He is a Karameikos and the name obviously still rings a bell
in Machetos. I feel the people of the Duchy may resent Stefan for leaving
them. But I feel they resent more the way Thincol stripped the land of its
assets. I am sure they have noticed how Karameikos has prospered. I beleive
they feel that young Justin could match or even outdistance his father's
accomplishments.
As for any break in tradition, I remind you that this is Thyatis. The Empire
is known to do all manner of odd things concerning its kingdoms.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:41:55 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Norwold size: remember?
Ok, i checked out too the problem spotted by Shane and what i found is
that the mistake has been made by the PWA designers. The other maps have the
same scale, the only one different (smaller) is the PWA map of Norwold. To
solve the problem just double the scale, making 1 square = 60 miles (instead
of 30). This way the problem is resolved.
As a side note, the map of Wendar in PWA1 needs also to be a bit bigger: 1
square = 37 miles (not 32)
DM
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:14:51 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
At 11.50 16/09/97 -0400, you wrote:
><< Shadow Elves- Civil war. Cut off eastern Darokin.
> >
> Yes, there'll be a civil war, but with several surprises...
> Anyway Darokin won't be involved in this civil war.>>
>
>Darokin is brought into the Shadow Elf War by City of the Stars wanting to
>turn the surface dwellers against the Shadow Elves of Rafielton and Aengmor.
>I forgot to mention in original message that Princess Tanadaleyo had gained
>diplomatic ties with Glantri, Darokin, and partial contact with Karameikos
>and Wendar through the Alfheim.
Oh really? It's strange you know, cause nobody told us... I mean, we pay our
contributors for the Almanac and they didn't get such important news!? It's
not acceptable!
>Instead of sending troops, the Darokinians are more interested in the trouble
>in Glantri and the Thyatian aggresions elsewhere. As long as Selenica isn't
>beseiged they will not take any action. During this time, Ylaruam sees the
>trouble the city is in and offers to protect the city. Since Selenica is
>mostly populated by people of Ylaruam heritage and it is genuinly feared that
>the SE will assault the city, it accepts Ylaruam's offer to annex and
>protect.
Again, read the PWA1014. Ylaruma cannot possibly offer its help to anyone,
especially Darokin, because now the Kin faction rules, and they are
extremely obnoxious towards foreigners. Ylaruam has closed its borders for
now, and besides, it's having a hard time with internal problems, i shall say...
> <<Wendar- Drawn into war.
>
> True, but not the shadowelvish one>>
>
>Wendar drawn into war against Glantri on the side of the Ethengar. This is
>mostly due to the ill treatment of the Erewan by the Glantrians. Also, it is
>feared that the Glantrian resentment will spread to Wendar. And then there is
>the trouble brewing in the Heldannic Territories.
Ahr ahr ahr! Not at all, my friend, not at all. I can tell you for sure the
Wendarians are not up against Glantri in this war, because they have
problems coming from the north. And besides, i think it's just not
believable that wendar (who has friendly relationships with Glnatri) joins
the Ethengarians (who have never heard about Wendar) just to punish the
other glantrians for their mistreatment of Erewan (wendar and erewan have no
ties whatoever, besides being elves... but then, the Belcadiz are elves too)...
> <<The Alfheim- Joins in on the Shadow Elf Civil War.
>
> Well, in a certain way...>>
>
>Yes, the Alfheim would be split. Felt that the 1014 Almanac was leading up to
>that.
Oh yes, they will definitely split: you cannot guess how close to the truth
you are...
DM
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:43:47 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Darokin Forts
While reading thru PWA2 i spotted something odd in page 23 (Darokin Map):
Darokin seems to have built two before undetailed keeps, namely For Nar and
Fort Marny, near the Atruaghin Border. Got any clues on the reasons? Did u
notice it? And which Legions are assigned there?
DM
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:33:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Galeifel@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
In einer eMail vom 16.09.97 19:41:10, schreiben Sie:
<< Again, read the PWA1014. Ylaruma cannot possibly offer its help to anyone,
especially Darokin, because now the Kin faction rules, and they are
extremely obnoxious towards foreigners. Ylaruam has closed its borders for
now, and besides, it's having a hard time with internal problems, i shall
say...
>>
I thought this was supposed to happen in 1050 (Gaz2)?
Garafale Galeifel
Not so sure about his titles anymore
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:39:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Galeifel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Darokin Forts
These were already on the map of gaz14, but they were never mentioned in any
product I know of.
Garafaele Galeifel
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:22:50 -0500
From: Dion Cautrell <cautrell@poetic.com>
Subject: Entropy (Was: [Mystara] Psionics)
> From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
> To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
> Subject: Re: [Mystara] Psionics
> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:18:31 -0400 (EDT)
>
>Am I the only one that feel Entropy is not necessaryly evil, just
>"different"?
I agree with you on this point. Entropy should not be represented as
inherently evil. It's like saying Thought is evil simply because it's
opposed to Energy and Matter. This simply isn't so either in the D&D
materials I've read or in terms of the concept of "Entropy" itself.
In the end, Entropy merely entails the return of all things to their
simplest forms; we can call it "decay" for convenience's sake, but we ought
to avoid applying the negative associations of that word to the concept of
"Entropy."
Other thoughts, anyone?
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dion Cautrell
Department of English
University of Nebraska at Kearney
Kearney, Nebraska 68847
(308) 865-8299
E-mail: cautrelld@platte.unk.edu
OR cautrell@poetic.com
"I always go on until I am stopped, and I never am stopped,"
Percy Bysshe Shelley to Edward J. Trelawny.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:35:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Galeifel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
JUSTIN Karameikos as ruler of Machetos? Every description I've read about
him, seems to imply that he would hate to be a ruler! What about Valen?
Except of course if something happened to him in 1014. BTW, how can I get
that almanac, and how can I become a contributor for the 1016 almanac? I
would be ready to do the work on any piece of land, which needs to be covered
(Davania, Savage Coast, perhaps).
Garafael Galeifel
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:19:31 -0500
From: brunciak <brunciak@erols.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Darokin Forts
DM wrote:
>
> While reading thru PWA2 i spotted something odd in page 23
> (Darokin Map): Darokin seems to have built two before undetailed
> keeps, namely For Nar and Fort Marny, near the Atruaghin Border. Got
> any clues on the reasons? Did u notice it? And which Legions are
> assigned there?
>
> DM
I've never seen them before on any maps, even the very earliest ones.
They could have been built to help secure the western border some more
(considering how nervous Darokin sort of is to intrusion or hostilities,
even from the Plateau), to help deal with the Malpheggi Swamps and the
region around it, or the authors just added them in because it felt like
an appropriate area. It also helps to "flesh out" that region and
complete the chain of forts around the north and west borders. Does
anyone have a concrete explanation?
RMB
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:39:47 -0500
From: brunciak <brunciak@erols.com>
Subject: [Mystara] Mystara: New Topic: Alphatia or Thyatis?
Hello all!
This may seem a bit of an unfair, biased or even bad question but I've
always wanted to know- "Which Empire do most of you favor, or rather
enjoy more- Thyatis or Alphatia"?-"Why"?
If that may seem a bit rude than how about-"Which would you rather be a
citizen of- "Alphatia or Thyatis"?-"Why"?
Thanks for hearing me out!
RMB
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:44:01 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Darokin Forts
On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, DM wrote:
> While reading thru PWA2 i spotted something odd in page 23 (Darokin Map):
> Darokin seems to have built two before undetailed keeps, namely For Nar and
> Fort Marny, near the Atruaghin Border. Got any clues on the reasons? Did u
> notice it? And which Legions are assigned there?
The way I always read it was that when GAZ11 first came out, there was no
dangerous Tiger Clan along the Atruaghin/Darokin border. When GAZ13 came
out, there was, so changes were made (that were never actually addressed
as such).
Since that region is one of the Borderlands territories, my personal
ruling is that one of the keeps there houses the personal guard of the
magistrate of the region (and as such, operates independently of the
Darokin army); the other keep houses part of the rotating unit that
normally operates out of the keep up on the north side of the plateau
(can't think of the name of it offhand). I just change the rotations
given in GAZ11 to accomodate the new keep down south.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:51:38 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] future events
On Mon, 15 Sep 1997 Galeifel@aol.com wrote:
> Wulf von Klagendorf dies (after all he's 83 and doesn't seem to magically
> lengthen his life)
Not so sure about this, for one reason: Wulf von Klagendorf (aka Herr
Rolf), died in 960 AC/1960 AY when Synn, the Night Dragon claimed his soul.
Haldemar of Haaken was witness to this event.
Now, in 1000 AC/2000 AY, when the Princess Ark returns to Alphatia,
Haldemar learns that Wulf von Klagendorf has taken control of the
Heldannic Order. Huh? He was dead?
Two points:
1) When Night Dragons claim a person's soul, that soul is then under the
sway of Entropy.
2) Thanatos is known (well, by us anyway) to use the body of a Hattian
soldier as an avatar. That Hattian general is in charge of (IIRC) the
Storm Soldiers of Thyatis.
See where I'm going with this?
> Maeragh Littlelaughs, Sildil Seaeyes and Delune Darkeyes retire (all have
> served mor than the usual dozen of years in office)
That's a good point, and ties in with my own thoughts that we need to
bring fresh blood into the Known World. Most of the NPCs are getting on
in years, and we could use some new faces to show up as time progresses.
We've already got a few of the familiar faces exiting this year, and in
coming years, but we don't have enough new ones coming in...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:58:29 PDT
From: "Jennifer Favia" <valerya@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Mystara] Thanks for the info :)
Hi everybody!
I just wnted to thank all of you who answered my list survey. I ended
up getting much more info than i originally asked for (I guess somebody
tacked some stuff on), but thanks so much! I'm really interested in
collaborating on some stuff with any of you who are interested (although
i must admit--as I have to some of you already--that I can't work on the
almanacs because my campaign's too far ahead, and I wouldn't want to
ruin any of the surprises! :)
I'm a big believer in payment in kind, so i thought I'd post my own
personal answers to the survey...At any rate, thanks to all of you, and
I'll sure be in touch (I might be just lurking for a while, though, 'cuz
school's a @#!* this semester!). Any of you who haven't submitted
nanything, it's never too late!
Name: Jennifer Favia
Email: valerya@hotmail.com
From: Originally from Youngstown, Ohio...Living in McAllen, TX (on the
border)
Interests: Anything Mystara. I both DM and play (no, I don't think it
takes anything away from the experience for me)
Other Interests: Anything medieval, esp. England, Primate Behavioral
Research (right now I'm trying desperately to prepare a paper for
publication),Writing, Reading (just anout anything, but especially
fantasy and horror)
Age: 24 (21 October 1972)
Profession: Full-Time Student. I'm a history major-psychology minor,
specializing in peasant studies in medieval England.
Website: none yet (I'm chained to the computers at school)
Marital Status: Kind of odd--we're married common law, but we're also
engaged to do it legally as soon as we graduate next spring.
Started Playing RPGs: ten years or so ago; came back after a big hiatus
First Played D&D: same time
Campaign Playing: Alternate (non-canon) Darokin, currently in 1021.
Current Projects: Hulean Development, Alphatian history on Mystara
(dynasties), Traladaran gypsies, Krondaharan culture, etc.
Talk to y'all soon!
Jennifer
(Valerya the Battlefury)
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:34:53 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
On Tue, 16 Sep 1997 Alex295@aol.com wrote:
> The Duke dispatthes several copies of his last will andtestament to the
> people of Machetos, Justin Karameikos, and Eusebius. At first, the Emperor is
> livid. However, the Imperial magist, Demetrion Karagenteropolus, offers his
> advise. Demetrion strongly suggests that Eusebius lets the matter stand as
> the Duke wants it. Demetrion is in disagreement about Thyatis's plans of
> conquests. He feels that Machetos would act as a buffer zone between Thyatis
> and Karameikos. He also realizes the Duke's reasons and agrees with them.
The biggest problem I personally have with the thought of Machetos being
annexed to Karameikos is twofold: 1) Machetos is a large area, and to
have the Thyatian Emperor willingly give away that much of the land of
his continental territories seems a bit extreme, and 2) in the context of
your having the Thyatian territories on the Isle of Dawn proclaim their
independence, this would be a major loss of territory for the Empire of
Thyatis. Which is my big problem with it, though to be fair, it wouldn't
be the first time a large territory (read: Alphatia, Alfheim) lost a lot
of ground.
But I think that we are starting to get things back under control,
relatively speaking, and in a few years, the way things are going, we
should get a return to the relative peace and stability that existed
prior to the Wrath of the Immortals. Not that things will be boring, but
I think that there has been quite a massive shaking up of events in
recent years (since and during Wrath), and that it is about time that the
nations of Mystara are able to relax for a bit. I'm sure there are
differing opinions, though.
> Should have said Dolores is unmasked before the Council. Her true nature as
> Synn is exposed.
As has been pointed out before (I believe Ann Dupuis mentioned this, once
upon a time as well)- that probably wouldn't do a whole lot. I mean, this
is a council that has 1) A Kobold Witch-Doctor, 2) A Nosferatu/Vampire,
3) A Werewolf, 4) A Lich. One dragon, more or less, wouldn't make a whole
lot of difference.
At any rate, (arguably) Kol, Brannart, Morphail, know about Synn, in
addition to Jaggar and Malachie. The only difference politics wise that I
can see a revelation doing is perhaps putting some of the other princes
at odds (and on guard against) Dolores.
Unless you meant that it is somehow shown that she is not only a Night
Dragon, but also _not_ the daughter of Lady Margaret Hillsbury. Which
would create quite a stir, as she would not be the legal heir to her
dominion, and could be kicked out of the Council of Princes. The trick is
proving it, though.
> The internal strife in House Sylaire is from a nasty confrontation between
> Malachie and Dame Genevieve de Sephora. The affair splits Averoigne as
> members choose sides. Matter is made worse as Etienne announces his fondness
> for Sephora.
It wouldn't split House Sylaire, so much as cause a break in the alliance
between House Sylaire and House Morlay. Nitpick, nitpick. ;)
> The Thyatians. The conquest of Minrothad is the first stage of the Thyatian
> war plan. Minrothad is a trade rival. It also is positioned to where Thyatis
> almost has to conquer it. A small nation with sizeable income, it would be an
> easy and profitable conquest.
> The whole Minrothad Offensive is actually well planned out by Eusebius. He
> stages pirate attacks on shipping to manipulate the Minrothads to allow him
> to have his navy patrol the area. First, he threatens to end any and all
> trade with Minrothad unless he can be certain Thyatian ships will be safe.
> This pressure is helped as several other nations threaten the same measures
> as their ships too have been ravaged. The Minrothad government gives in and
> grants Thyatian naval forces to patrol. These patrols allow the Thyatians to
> gain vital navigation data for the area. The Minrothads even offer to pay for
> a large portion of the expense of keeping the Thyatian naval in their waters.
The biggest problem with this is that Minrothad will not be standing
alone against Thyatis. As it is the largest single shipping conglomerate
in the Known World, there are many nations that would be severely damaged
by anyone messing with Minrothad. A lot of nations would come to their
aid, not the least of which (IMO) would be Ierendi, which has the
greatest navy.
It would be like one single nation trying to conquer Darokin- there would
be a lot of people who would object.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:42:38 PDT
From: "Jennifer Favia" <valerya@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara: New Topic: Alphatia or Thyatis?
>
>Hello all!
>
>This may seem a bit of an unfair, biased or even bad question but I've
>always wanted to know- "Which Empire do most of you favor, or rather
>enjoy more- Thyatis or Alphatia"?-"Why"?
>If that may seem a bit rude than how about-"Which would you rather be a
>citizen of- "Alphatia or Thyatis"?-"Why"?
>Thanks for hearing me out!
>RMB
>
I'm for Alphatia...maybe this is not the place to air my own personal
dirty laundry (and no, I'm not trying to start a big ol' fuss), but I
really feel that TSR made a big mistake in eliminating Alphatia. in
fact, I really didn't think that the way of getting rid of the singl
most powerful empire on Mystara was all that believable...but I
digress...Alphatia is far more militarily capable (speaking in the past
tense), economically strong, and culturally diverse and viable than
Thyatis. Why get rid of it, then? Well, my fellow cynics might agree
that marketing was the primary motivator behind WotI. What sells better
in RPGs than a war? Okay, so if Alphatia wins, they take over Thyatis,
and soon the rest of brun falls...? Who would want to play in a world
where you have hule owning one half and Alphatia the other? (Besides,
they would have wasted their money developing poor little karameikos :)
Should Thyatis win, there would be a huge power vacuum, leaving plenty
of room for play and development...Surprised which one happened?
So, although I have to live with what happened, my heart's with
Alphatia!
Jennifer
(Valerya the Battlefury)
valerya@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:10:18 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Darokin Forts
At 19.43 16/09/97 +0200, you wrote:
> While reading thru PWA2 i spotted something odd in page 23 (Darokin Map):
>Darokin seems to have built two before undetailed keeps, namely For Nar and
>Fort Marny, near the Atruaghin Border. Got any clues on the reasons? Did u
>notice it? And which Legions are assigned there?
IIRC one of those forts is also on the map of Gaz 14 (Atruaghin) but I'm
not sure.
- --------------
Fabrizio Paoli
brizio@lunet.it
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
- --------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:18:26 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
At 15.35 16/09/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Except of course if something happened to him in 1014. BTW, how can I get
>that almanac, and how can I become a contributor for the 1016 almanac? I
>would be ready to do the work on any piece of land, which needs to be covered
>(Davania, Savage Coast, perhaps).
>
>Garafael Galeifel
You can download it from MPGN.com (world/Mystara folder) or from my
Homepage if you know the password (is a simple question).
Bye.
- --------------
Fabrizio Paoli
brizio@lunet.it
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
- --------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:47:54 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
At 11.15 16/09/97 -0400, Alex wrote:
><<Minrothad- Assaulted and partially conquered.
>
>By who?>>
>
>The Thyatians.
<snip>
>
>Note--All of the Thyatian war plan takes several years to develope. Eusebius
>must build the Cohortsand Navy back up to prewar strength and even expand
>them. To do this he could easily conscript the dickens out of the populace.
>However, he feels that this would be detrimental to the Army's morale and
>fighting value. He stresses the benefits of Armed Service, making it trendy
>to be a soldier. He focuses these propaganda campaigns on the slums of
>Thyatis City and other impoverished areas.
>Eusebius also is looking ahead in his bid for dominance. Begins expanding
>other forces such as cavalry and Retebius Air Fleet to meet the potential
>enemies later on.
>To pay for the buildup, Eusebius enacts several decrees to tax the people
>that can afford it. Slave owners are taxed yearly for each slave they own.
>Even the Games are taxed. Most domestic taxes are small to the individual and
>are for the most part acceptable. Other taxes are in the form of tarrifs on
>foriegn goods. And ironically, Thyatis takes out several substantual loans
>from Minrothad and Ierendi for "domestic use".
>
>Hope this clears some things up.
>
Wait. I don't know very much about Eusebius and Thyatis, but I thought he
was a wise man looking for peace, not for war and conquest.
Thyatis cannot afford another war anytime soon. I don't Thyatians will
accept more taxes (remember that taxes in Thyatis are 25%, quite high).
Moreover Thyatis should worry about NACE before attacking someone else. If
they wage war at Minrothad they'll have to face both NACE on the east and
the Western Defence League on the West. Not to mention the consequences
such a war would have on (the already sick) Thyatian economy: Thyatians
ships assaulted by faster Minrothad vessels in every corner of the KW, big
embargo against Thyatian goods...
I guess Darokin and Ierendi would be the first to help Minrothad. And
remember that Ierendi has powerful ships in Honor Islands.
Just my opinion.
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com
DM in City Of The Stars - PC in the Forgotten Realms
Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:35:13 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
At 11.50 16/09/97 -0400, Alex wrote:
><< Shadow Elves- Civil war. Cut off eastern Darokin.
> >
> Yes, there'll be a civil war, but with several surprises...
> Anyway Darokin won't be involved in this civil war.>>
>
>Darokin is brought into the Shadow Elf War by City of the Stars wanting to
>turn the surface dwellers against the Shadow Elves of Rafielton and Aengmor.
>I forgot to mention in original message that Princess Tanadaleyo had gained
>diplomatic ties with Glantri, Darokin, and partial contact with Karameikos
>and Wendar through the Alfheim. Rumors of her ideas of breaking away from her
>father's rule are rampant. The SE king hopes to show his daughter and her
>supporters that the SE can never live peacefully with the surface dwellers.
Why? Why should King Telemon want to show his daughter and her supporters
that the SE can never live peacefully with the surface dwellers?
IMO King Telemon would like to go live on the surface with his daughter,
but he knows that his subjects underground need his guidance. Moreover he
realizes that he's probably too old to change his lifestyle and settle on
the surface.
Anyway Telemon loves his sons and wants them to live peacefully on the
surface among humans and demihumans.
>To do so, King Telemon sends troops to occupy the land corridor that
>surrounds the former nation of Alfheim and connects Selenica to the rest of
>Darokin. Telemon hopes that the Darokinians will send troops retake the
>corridors. He hopes the SE will come together to stave off the humans. Thus,
>giving the SE a common goal once again.
>Instead of sending troops, the Darokinians are more interested in the trouble
>in Glantri and the Thyatian aggresions elsewhere. As long as Selenica isn't
>beseiged they will not take any action. During this time, Ylaruam sees the
>trouble the city is in and offers to protect the city. Since Selenica is
>mostly populated by people of Ylaruam heritage and it is genuinly feared that
>the SE will assault the city, it accepts Ylaruam's offer to annex and
>protect.
>
I see your point. Unfortunately we've already discussed (and for a long
time) the Shadow Elves events (Aengmor, Rafielton and City of the Stars)
and you're ideas doesn't fit very well in our timeline draft.
I don't want to spoil the almanac any more, anyway the general idea among
us (i.e. me, Herve and Thorfinn) is that the Shadow Elves can live
peacefully on the surface among humans, dwarves, halflings and even elves
(Alfheim ones too).
Keep in mind that Shadow Elves aren't an evil race, just a misunderstood one.
I suggest you to read the book "Son of Dawn" in the First Quest series,
it's useful to better understand the human-SE relationship.
Anyway in next almanac you'll find also the warlike face of SE... there'll
be a war and many other interesting things ;-)
>
>Thanks. I as said before I have only been on the List for a few months.
>Perhaps with a bit of tweeking some of these ideas can be used in the next
>almanac. Most of these ideas are going to take awhile to evolve. Perhaps when
>the current almanac comes out, I will see a few ways to tie some of these in.
>
The almanac should come out in December, you just have to wait a few months.
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com
DM in City Of The Stars - PC in the Forgotten Realms
Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:44:30 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara: New Topic: Alphatia or Thyatis?
At 16.39 15/09/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Hello all!
>
>This may seem a bit of an unfair, biased or even bad question but I've
>always wanted to know- "Which Empire do most of you favor, or rather
>enjoy more- Thyatis or Alphatia"?-"Why"?
Neither of the two. Alphatia because I don't like spellcasters, Thyatis
because I don't like Thyatians :)
Anyway there're areas of both Empires that I like: Esterhold and the
Hinterlands above all.
>If that may seem a bit rude than how about-"Which would you rather be a
>citizen of- "Alphatia or Thyatis"?-"Why"?
Again, neither of the two. Darokin is the (almost) perfect country IMO.
Anyway the Shadow Elves will eventually conquer all Mystara, and then the
moons.... :-)
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com
DM in City Of The Stars - PC in the Forgotten Realms
Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V2 #140
*****************************
From: owner-mystara-digest@ (mystara-digest)
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #141
Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
Sender: owner-mystara-digest@
Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@
Precedence: bulk
mystara-digest Wednesday, September 17 1997 Volume 02 : Number 141
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:30:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara: New Topic: Alphatia or Thyatis?
brunciak pontificated:
>
> This may seem a bit of an unfair, biased or even bad question but I've
> always wanted to know- "Which Empire do most of you favor, or rather
> enjoy more- Thyatis or Alphatia"?-"Why"?
Thyatis, because Alphatia is not around yet when I first start playing,
so my early characters have more ties with Thyatis.
> If that may seem a bit rude than how about-"Which would you rather be a
> citizen of- "Alphatia or Thyatis"?-"Why"?
If I'm a magic-user, Alphatia. If I'm a fighter, Thyatis.
John Yu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 97 21:05:00 EDT
From: Geoff Gander <ggander@CHAT.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara: New Topic: Alphatia or Thyatis?
brunciak writes:
>
> Hello all!
>
> This may seem a bit of an unfair, biased or even bad question but I've
> always wanted to know- "Which Empire do most of you favor, or rather
> enjoy more- Thyatis or Alphatia"?-"Why"?
> If that may seem a bit rude than how about-"Which would you rather be a
> citizen of- "Alphatia or Thyatis"?-"Why"?
> Thanks for hearing me out!
> RMB
Well, if I could be a wizard, then I would rather live in Alphatia,
otherwise, Thyatis would be for me. Actually, I'd lean towards Thyatis
anyway, simply because I'm a bit of a "Romanophile" - I've always admired
things Roman. Also, I like their colonial expansion in Davania - lots of
exciting opportunites!
In terms of perference, I can understand the Thyatians a bit better
because they are based on a real culture, while the Alphatians are truly
alien. Given that, I find the Alphatians to be far more interesting an
empire in many ways.
I realize this is a roundabout response to your query, but I had fun
repsonding!
Geoff>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Geoff Gander, BA 97
Studentus Emeritus Ad Nauseam
Carleton University
General wanderer by principle, adventurer by profession
Email address: ggander@chat.carleton.ca
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:40:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ben3181@aol.com
Subject: Re: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline and other stuff)
We do however have to remember that although psionics is *not* magic,
people that learn to use these powers have to learn from someone else. It is
extremly, very, rare indeed, if one learns psionics alone. In that respect,
psionics resemble any other form (AD&D only) magic.
Also, it should be noted that although we view psionics as more of a
science, a culture like Alphatia (dispite how much magic it has) would most
likely see psionics as a form of magic.
IMO then, it seems likely that psionicists would be eligible for
nobility.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:06:03 -0700
From: "Patrick" <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Darokin Forts
When I placed Darokin's legions for the war with Hule (I played out X10 set
during WotI), I used the legions assigned to each of the five armies in
PWA1 & 2, and I scattered the legions throughout the surrounding region
(e.g., IIRC one legion from the Fifth Army, headquartered at Fort
Anselbury, was stationed at each Ft. Marny and Nar). I don't know if this
is officially the way the sytem works or not, but it worked well enough in
that campaign. My question (since I still don't have Gaz12) is Where is
Fort Fletcher? IMC, I placed the Fourth Army at Fort Lakeside, but I was
wondering where Fletcher is, since I can't find it on any of the dozen or
so maps that I checked. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Patrick
P.S.-- I did notice the two new forts that were added in Gaz14, and i also
assumed that they were placed there to deal with the threat of invasion
from the Tiger clan.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:08:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: Entropy (Was: [Mystara] Psionics)
In a message dated 97-09-16 16:02:01 EDT, cautrell@poetic.com writes:
<< I agree with you on this point. Entropy should not be represented as
inherently evil. It's like saying Thought is evil simply because it's
opposed to Energy and Matter. This simply isn't so either in the D&D
materials I've read or in terms of the concept of "Entropy" itself.
In the end, Entropy merely entails the return of all things to their
simplest forms; we can call it "decay" for convenience's sake, but we ought
to avoid applying the negative associations of that word to the concept of
"Entropy."
Other thoughts, anyone? >>
I think that Entropy is evil in the sense that it is opposed to everything
that most intelligent creatures value -- entropy is certainly an undesirable
tendency that should be minimized to the extent possible. And there is
no question that most Immortals of Entropy would be considered Evil in
AD&D terms. The other four Spheres are the components of life; Entropy
represents the end of life and thus is generally opposed to all four Spheres
to an extent beyond the conflicts of the other four Spheres among themselves.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:16:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline and other stuff)
In a message dated 97-09-16 06:18:46 EDT, Magesmiley@aol.com writes:
<< The point I have been trying to make is more that Alphatian nobility's
requirement is: "...has the ability to use magic and can be taught a
spell..." (thats straight from established material, specifically DotE Book
3
p.16 under Aristocrat). No magic and spellcasting, no nobility. You're
free
to treat psionicists as if they are magic-users in your campaign, but in the
"official" version of Alphatia I think the case is pretty strong against
their being allowed to be nobles. I do believe however that if you do allow
psionicists to become nobles in Alphatia it will detract from the nation's
uniqueness and character. >>
So the question then becomes whether psionic powers are spells in the
sense that matters in Alphatia -- the statement from DotE does not settle
the matter at all. By the definition given, I am not sure that Clerics would
qualify, even though they obviously are accepted as nobles in Alphatia.
After all, their powers are granted by the Immortals -- I am not sure how
they can be "taught a spell". On the other hand, Psionicists are learning
new devotions and sciences all the time -- who is to say that these are
not spells? If Psionicists exist in Alphaita, I am fairly sure that they
would be eligible for nobility there. On the other hand, they certainly
would
not qualify for nobility in Glantri -- they would be lucky to escape being
accused of Clericalism.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 00:08:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara: New Topic: Alphatia or Thyatis?
In a message dated 97-09-16 23:55:16 EDT, valerya@hotmail.com (Jennifer
Favia) writes:
<< Alphatia is far more militarily capable (speaking in the past
tense), economically strong, and culturally diverse and viable than
Thyatis. >>
I would agree with all of what you said except for the "culturally
diverse" part. Thyatis (pre-Wrath, at least) seemed to be more
tolerant of non-Thyatians than Alphatia was of non-Alphatians.
But Alphatia certainly seemed to have a much greater population
base to draw talent from.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 00:41:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: DUFFISGOD@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Xoloitzcuintli
In a message dated 97-08-27 16:53:51 EDT, you write:
<<
One of the 14 verses says: "If any other people desire to live among you,
let a clan adopt them, and keep them separate from you lest they offend me
(...)", so my guess is that also these lupins should live in the area known
as the Enclave in City of the Stars and may not leave the city. >>
IMC ihave them in a village outside the forest of spiders. they aid in
trapping the spiders and recently defended a raid led by a group of areanea
(anyone with gaz 113 knows what im talking about)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 00:53:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: DUFFISGOD@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Portal to Sigil
In a message dated 97-08-28 10:39:14 EDT, you write:
<<
<< So... does anybody care to play with the idea of an Immortal, possibly
using an Avatar, using a Mortal Identity to "infiltrate" Sigil, possibly
resuming Manifestation Form once inside?
I have to wonder what the Lady of Pain would do... especially since all I
really know about her is her name. >> >>
shed kill them. plain and simple yod have to be one barmy cutter if youd wnt
to mess with the lady berk.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:01:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: DUFFISGOD@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Vanya and Storm Soldiers
In a message dated 97-08-29 05:14:29 EDT, you write:
<<
> Remember that in Hattias Vanya is revered by that obnoxious racist
> group
> known as the Storm Soldiers. But as Mystaros pointed out once: "How
> can a
> racist group who hates and would rather enslave all women follow the
> words
> of a Female Immortal?"
> ... i think Mystaros' idea that Orcus is the true god of the SS is not
> that improbable, quite the contrary >>
i think its just vanya as a male with thanatos putting in his two coppers
every now and again just to rile things up
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:31:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: DUFFISGOD@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] "Jennifer Favia" <valerya@hotmail.com>
Duff
Duffisgod@aol.com
philly pa
i have several campaigns running at thae current moment my primary interests
are whats happening next. shadow elves, the empire of New Alphatia, thyatis,
and Glantri, i also have an intwerestin the ataughin plateau but it gives me
writers block when i try to integrate anything into a campaign.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 02:49:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: DUFFISGOD@aol.com
Subject: [Mystara] Re: Psionics
Psionics Imc are used only rarely. the Psionicist class is what i
used instead of mystics. i have sects in thyatis, sind and ochalea. there is
also the colony of Drizalia on the isle of dawn which is a refuge for
alphatians who develped "taints" these people were seen as a wildly different
almost monster. they were put on display at the zoo on aeria. i also have
wild talents resulting commonly among glantrians and shadow elves as they are
a side affect of the radiation from the Nucleus. I have developed an immortal
whom I call Drizal.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:24:17 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Aleksei Andrievski <k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Herve Musseau wrote:
> Old Alphatia : What kind of Alphatians? Both the followers of the flame
> and air have already migrated to Mystara long ago. Not sure I like this.
>
Maybe there could be followers of water, a hitherto quiet group that has
magically noticed the sinking of Alphatia and decided to move there, to
live underwater. They could either join the NACE (if they were friendly
with air followers) or start a war (if they were hostile)...
***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord
** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but
** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us."
** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages,
** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers."
** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread."
*****************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:31:55 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Aleksei Andrievski <k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi>
Subject: [Mystara] Duke of Machetos
I have noticed that the Duke of Machetos has undergone a sudden name
change from DotE to one of the almanacs. In DotE, his name was Callastian
Jowdynites, while the almanacs name him Callastian Jonassanian (or
something like that). Which one is his current name?
***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord
** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but
** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us."
** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages,
** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers."
** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread."
*****************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 03:36:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: DUFFISGOD@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
In a message dated 97-09-16 12:29:22 EDT, you write:
<<
Darokin is brought into the Shadow Elf War by City of the Stars wanting to
turn the surface dwellers against the Shadow Elves of Rafielton and Aengmor.
I forgot to mention in original message that Princess Tanadaleyo had gained
diplomatic ties with Glantri, Darokin, and partial contact with Karameikos
and Wendar through the Alfheim. Rumors of her ideas of breaking away from
her
father's rule are rampant. >>
I have a similar idea but with tanadaleyo being involved with the prince of
erewan (whose name i cannot recall atpt) the neglect of erewan by both thier
elven cousins and thier glantrian countrymen have left them feeling kind of
outcast. the church of a new immortal faith in erewan also supports contact
with the shadow elves) a new radiant shaman is named after the death of
porphyriel.more to that than it seems.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 02:27:58 PDT
From: "Herve Musseau" <herve@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara: New Topic: Alphatia or Thyatis?
>Hello all!
>
>This may seem a bit of an unfair, biased or even bad question but I've
>always wanted to know- "Which Empire do most of you favor, or rather
>enjoy more- Thyatis or Alphatia"?-"Why"?
>If that may seem a bit rude than how about-"Which would you rather be a
>citizen of- "Alphatia or Thyatis"?-"Why"?
>Thanks for hearing me out!
>RMB
I'm very biased in favor of Alphatia, as I'm in charge for the
net-almanacs of the NACE and Alphatia...
I like it as an old nation full of artists and wizards. I especially
liked its changing of attitude towards aother nations from conquest to
alliance/frienship/safekeeping of others since it was relocated to the
HW. I also like the concept of confederation for the NACE (but I'm very
very biased there) which makes it enter an even more "modern" era.
What I don't like in Thyatis is its rampant corruption and the power
hunger of its emperors.
Anyway, for roleplaying purposes I'd never let any of them become too
dominant or eradicate all threats for an eternal peace (that's the
purpose in the NACE timeline of stuff like Baron Norlan, the biggest
dungeon of Ionace, Aegos, Zandor, etc.)
__________________________________________________________
Herve Musseau
Primary Email: herve@hotmail.com
Also: hmusseau@compuserve.com
Homepage: http://www.esiee.fr/~musseauh (not anymore it seems)
I'm a QSQWBEEEGGNFR Mystaran
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 02:55:02 PDT
From: "Herve Musseau" <herve@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara: New Topic: Alphatia or Thyatis?
>Hello all!
>
>This may seem a bit of an unfair, biased or even bad question but I've
>always wanted to know- "Which Empire do most of you favor, or rather
>enjoy more- Thyatis or Alphatia"?-"Why"?
>If that may seem a bit rude than how about-"Which would you rather be a
>citizen of- "Alphatia or Thyatis"?-"Why"?
>Thanks for hearing me out!
>RMB
I'm very biased in favor of Alphatia, as I'm in charge for the
net-almanacs of the NACE and Alphatia...
I like it as an old nation full of artists and wizards. I especially
liked its changing of attitude towards aother nations from conquest to
alliance/frienship/safekeeping of others since it was relocated to the
HW. I also like the concept of confederation for the NACE (but I'm very
very biased there) which makes it enter an even more "modern" era.
What I don't like in Thyatis is its rampant corruption and the power
hunger of its emperors.
Anyway, for roleplaying purposes I'd never let any of them become too
dominant or eradicate all threats for an eternal peace (that's the
purpose in the NACE timeline of stuff like Baron Norlan, the biggest
dungeon of Ionace, Aegos, Zandor, etc.)
__________________________________________________________
Herve Musseau
Primary Email: herve@hotmail.com
Also: hmusseau@compuserve.com
Homepage: http://www.esiee.fr/~musseauh (not anymore it seems)
I'm a QSQWBEEEGGNFR Mystaran
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:32:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Galeifel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] future events
In einer eMail vom 16.09.97 22:41:20, schreiben Sie:
<< > Maeragh Littlelaughs, Sildil Seaeyes and Delune Darkeyes retire (all
have
> served mor than the usual dozen of years in office)
That's a good point, and ties in with my own thoughts that we need to
bring fresh blood into the Known World. Most of the NPCs are getting on
in years, and we could use some new faces to show up as time progresses.
We've already got a few of the familiar faces exiting this year, and in
coming years, but we don't have enough new ones coming in...
>>
Well, you see, in my campaign I've had all three step down, and one of thier
successors is Joshuan gallidox, after all a quite famous hin adventurer.
Favian Vern becomes editor of the almanac, thereby explaining its return to
its original format.
Garafaele Galeifel
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:55:29 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Psionics in Alphatia
On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote:
> Thing is, though, that Psionics wouldn't detect as magic by Priestly or
> Wizardly spells. It might seem like magic to Alphatians, but it wouldn't
> detect as such, which would lead more studious types (and there's plenty
> of them in Alphatia) to try and figure out precisely why they don't
> detect as magic.
Point. So, I dont really see one as the obvious solution. We could have
either of them, though probably not both ;)
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:53:36 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Psionics
On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Shin Chyang Yu wrote:
> Haavard Roenne Faanes pontificated:
> >
> > On the matter of Entropy:
> > I discussed this with a firend of mine and we came up with the theory that
> > Entropy is not a sphere in the same manner as the others. It represents
> > the opposition of all the spheres, thus it embodies a powers representing
> > each sphere:
> > (Using David Azure Leland's model)
> >
> > Energy: Black Magic, Necromancy
> > Matter: Destructive/dark technology, Nuclear bombs
> > Thought: Dark side Psionics?
> > Time: Evil Shamanism?
>
> Am I the only one that feel Entropy is not necessaryly evil, just
> "different"?
Not really. I just hate not being subjective. Objectivism ruins a lot of
the fun. However it this case I could have stayed away from the "evil"
words.
Time: Worship of undead spirits?
I think the rest still could apply. Note I love Neutral Entropics like Hel
and Nyx.
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:14:58 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte#dsc.unibo.it@provincia.ra.it>
Subject: [Mystara] List Survey: wanted
Hi! I'm still waiting for the stats of some of you i do know are out
there, namely:
Diego Calugi
Nicholas Hudson
Daniel Boese
Please reply soon!
Thanx!
PS: soon the results will come out. However some of you still need to send
some info: i will contact you in the following weeks.
DM
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:09:42 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte#dsc.unibo.it@provincia.ra.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Symbols or Coats of Arms
I was wondering about the symbols of the various nations of the KW.
Especially Thyatis and Alphatia. IIRC, Alphatia's symbol is a winged bull,
while Thyatis' is an eagle with two lightning bolts in her talons (and not
that kind of bird suggested in X11 -the one in the imperial seal stolen by
the pregenerated thief- another proof of the unlikeliness of pregenerated
characters background). Do i remember well? And what about the others? Let's
try:
Alphatia (NACE?): winged bull
Thyatis: eagle with lightning bolts in her talons
Glantri: Hourglass (i know it's d''Ambreville's symbol, but...)
Darokin: Daro (or sun? it's round and yellow after all)
Karameikos: the silhouette of the ship (from GAZ1 coats of arms)
Minrothad: the libra (from GAZ9 symbols: this is official)
Ierendi: a dolphin?
Ylaruam: twin palms with the sun behind?
Rockhome: a hammer (or the symbol of the Everast, which i don't know)
Alfheim (old): the king's family coats of arms (?)
Five Shires: ??
Ethengar: a horse?
Northern Reaches: ?
Heldannic Territories: Black rampant lion in white background
Denagoth: a wyvern
Wendar: a tree?
Sind: ?
others?
PS: Savage Coast has its own detailed coats of arms, including the City
States and Hule, so this is not a problem.
DM
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:48:27 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte#dsc.unibo.it@provincia.ra.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Almanac ideas: reply (long)
Alex wrote:
<< Thyatis- Eusebius discovers his fathers personal diaries (many suprises).
Makes moves to repair its economy, imperial pride, and international
standing by conquest.>>
I don't think this is be the BEST move Eusebius could do for some practical
reasons:
1. Thyatis is still recovering after a 5 years war that really crashed the
thyatian economy and military. Eusebius is currently trying to reassert
Thyatis rule in the old territories (esp. Isle of Dawn) and in the few small
dominions he's been able to add to his empire (Alatian Isles)
2. Eusebius now (by 1015 AC, at least) knows that Alphatia still exists
inside the HW, and that NACE is a powerful political and military enitity
(see the facts in Esterhold), backed by the Old Hag herself (Empress
Eriadna). He surely won't risk his own empire now that the international
order seems to have been restored.
3. Eusebius must first of all resolve Thyatis internal problems (Corruption,
bad economic situation, famine in some part of the country) before even
looking to other nations with expansionistic aims.
<< Trouble in the Hinterlands with renegade Clans and their Emerond allies.>>
Never heard that the Hinterlander were allied with Emerondian. From what we
know from the Princess Ark's Journals, only Haldemar knows of their
existence... Are all these references drawn from your personal campaign?
<<Flying City of Serrainne within reach of Thyatis' legions. Serraine comes
with Thyatian reach as Thyatis builds its own skyships and expands Retebius
Air Fleet. Also, Serraine experiences some technical difficulties and must
land to make repairs (ends up being a complete overhaul). Originally the
gnomes set a course for Aeria but are forced to land in a shallow area in
the New Alphatian Sea.>>
So, if i understood well Thyatis captures Serraine while it's under repair
in the New Alphatian Sea? Just two questions:
1. where the heck is the Alphatian Sea "shallow"? You probably mean they
landed in one of the small rocky islands of the sea, don't you?
2. how can Thyatis manage to conquer Serraine (even if it's stranded) if
they by AC 1015 don't have a single skyship (IIRC the only one they built
was hijacked by Alphatian rebels)?
3. but even IF Thyatis HAD more than a skyship, and IF these skyships
SPOTTED Serrain while patrolling the New Alphatian Sea for some unknown
reasons (not their territory and not interesting at all, from a military
point of view), don't you remember that they still would have to cope with
the Top Ballista squadrons, with all the Sphinxes and Pegataurs on board at
that moment, and maybe even with the defense systems of the city (if they
want to conquer it)?
I still think this event is a bit unprobable.
<<Thyatian Skyships "developed" from stolen plans from Aeria. >>
Talking about skyships, do you still think Thyatis would be able to conquer
Serraine using crap skyships as YOU YOURSELF seem to suggest here? I must
admit however, that the plan to give Thyatis fake plans is a good one... *grins*
<<Duke of Machetos dies leaving the Duchy to one of the Karameikos family
members.>>
<skipped>
A very subtle plot full of possible twists. It may be feasible, but i think
that Callastian's reason to leave Machetos to Justin would be essentially a
revenge against the Emperor (which is now Eusebius -the Duke hated Thincol,
and his hatred has been passed onto his son). Also, since he's a bitter man,
he probably wants to make Justin (related to the former owner of the Duchy
- -maybe he thinks that were it not for Stephan, the Emperor would have
granted him a more profitable dominion) experience the same things he had to
overcome in life. Possible, it depends on how Michael will work on this.
As for Anaxibius wanting the dominion for his father, well, this was in 1000
AC, when he was 30 years old. Now that we are in 1015 AC, his father is
probably 55-60 years old: a bit too old to become a ruler without ANY
specific reasons. And if he really wants to grant him a dominion, why
doesn't he carve out one in his new Barony in the Isle of Dawn (Anaxibius
and Stefania Torion are now married and rulers of Redstone, IIRC)?
<< Karameikos- Beginning of construction of the Karameikan Royal Air Force
(skyship). The Karameikan Skyships are being developed by the Terari and the
School (with help from Aeria, of course). The Skyships will not be along the
scale of Alphatian Man of War. They will be smaller craft designed to carry
a dozen or so troops and a handfull of catapults and ballista. Their role is
mainly to patrol and defend the borders.>>
A futuristic scenario. Actually, Karameikos lacks the FUNDS to create a
whole fleet of skyships, and i think it also lacks the magical power to do
it. Yes, there are Terari and other Alphatian nobles in Karameikos, but just
because a mage hails from Alphatia this doesn't mean he's 18th level
(minimum level required to create HUGE magical items such as a skyship) and
that he knows how (or want) to build a skyship. Remember that Karameikos is
still not as powerful as Thyatis in the magical field, and if Thyatis itself
has not yet a skyfleet, why should Karameikos have one? I think there are
plans to build one, but these are veery long term plans (let's say a
decade), unless they come up with a less expensive and difficult method
(gnomes of Highforge?).
I also think that sky is the trade lane of the future... and i think smart
merchants will start soon thinking about this idea.
<< School of Magecraft opens second university.>>
Wow! Why? Where? Who? When?
<<Glantri- Internal split among House Sylaire and its allies. Etienne reappears
officially. The internal strife in House Sylaire is from a nasty
confrontation between Malachie and Dame Genevieve de Sephora. The affair
splits Averoigne as
members choose sides. Matter is made worse as Etienne announces his fondness
for Sephora.>>
BUMMER! Frankly, don't take it as a personal flame, but this is not even
thinkable. Etienne almost EXPOSED himself before time to come into aid of
his ally and friend Malachie (see Almanac 1014): i don't think he will now
turn his back on the White Wolf, who for his part helped the House of Sylare
to find its rightful ruler (see Isidore vs Henri) and has ever been a devout
follower of Etienne. I think the reappearence of Etienne is the REAL EVENT
that has to be dealt with, especially by the other Princes and by us above
all. Do we want him back immortal or not?
<<Innocenti meets his match.>>
Poor guy. He's only a mad, ravenous, slimy, creepy old wizard who lost
everything: don't you feel pity for him? Who is destined to be his nemesis?
<<Rivalry between Brannart and Morphail intesnifies.
The Morphail/Brannart deal is something I have played with a bit. Brannart
begins summoning undead minions to throw up against Morphail. Morphail
destroys them as they enter his domain. However, each new series of
creatures is becoming harder to handle. Still, Morphail does not retaliate.>>
He destroys them? Why? He could CONTROL them and sent them back to Brannart!
He has the power to do it being Master of Necromancy, and this would teach
Brannart to stay in his place. I don't picture Morphail as a passive vampire
who likes to defend without lashing at his enemy in turn. Nope, this is not
the personality of a true Old Vampire.
<< He feels that since he is the Grand Master of Necromancy, he is to defend
and show Brannart that he can take anything the lich can throw at him. Deep
in his mind, Morphail feels doubts as to his future. Morphail has studied up
on Lichdom and knows how powerful they are. He is afraid that should he have
to meet Brannart in a duel, he might perish. Especially since he has come to
a basic understanding as to the potential power of the Radiance.>>
Now, surely he knows liches are powerful, but he is a nosferatu wizard of
28th level after all (he was in 1000 AC, so by 1015 he should be let's say
31st level): no easy prey even for a lich! And he's the Master of
Necromancy, too! And what's this story of his knowledge of the Radiance?
GAZ3 never mentioned he knew anything about the Radiance at all (Brannart
was the one who knew).
<<The Belcadiz will probably have troubles of their own, especially if the
Erewan were to make some agreement with the Alfheim to join them in Wendar
and Karameikos. And since Wendar is likely to join the Ethengar due to the
hostilities between Glantri and the Erewan...>>
Nope, this is not the case as i've already said in a previous post. Wendar
has at the moment its own internal problems, which will soon escalate in
1016 AC to unimaginable proportions. It's absolutely impossible that Wendar
will meddle in the Ethengar-Glantri war, and more unlikely that it will
welcome other elven refugees (the reasons will be explained in next
Alamanac, so be patient and trust my words).
<<Minrothad- Assaulted and partially conquered by the Thyatians.
The conquest of Minrothad is the first stage of the Thyatian war plan.
Minrothad is a trade rival. It also is positioned to where Thyatis
almost has to conquer it. A small nation with sizeable income, it would be an
easy and profitable conquest.>>
Ahahahaha!! Are you talking seriously? Minrothad an easy conquest? Have you
ever read GAZ9? Minrothad has a powerful fleet that rivals that of Ierendi,
and thanks to its Merchant Princes Minrothad has complete control of the sea
lanes, not only from the economical point of view. Trust me when i tell you
it's not feasible for Thyatis (see the points at the beginning of the
letter). Also, Minrothad has ambassadors everywhere and ties with every
major nation it trades with: do you really think nobody will say anything if
Thyatis invades Minrothad (especially NACE)? Besides, i think that looking
at the past history it's likely Minrothad would ally with Ierendi to stand
against Thyatis (Ierendi is not dumb and will realize that Minrothad is only
the first step in a Thyatian war plan to conquer the Sea of Dread lanes),
and Thyatis CANNOT overcome Minrothad and Ierendi's combined forces, not in
AC 1015 that is.
<<The whole Minrothad Offensive is actually well planned out by Eusebius. He
stages pirate attacks on shipping to manipulate the Minrothads to allow him
to have his navy patrol the area.>>
Minorthad has Privateers working for it, and it will soon discover that
they're not responsible for the attacks. Thus, it will dispatch its navy AND
its privateers to take care of the "pirate ships" that ply its lanes,
without requiring any outside assistance. I think you're underestimating
Mirothad's naval strength, really.
<<Notice that it says that Minrothad is partially conquered. Things do not go
well for the Thyatian Forces. Part of their landing forces are assaulted by
pirates from Fire Island. The pirates thought them to be "fat merchant
ships".>>
The pirates are not dumb and they work for Minrothad govt, so they don't
have to have the excuse of "merchant ships' sacking" to attack the thyatian
navy if it attempts to conquer Minrothad. Besides, i don't really see how
Thyatis can conquer Fortress Island, Open Island, Seahome and Minrothad City
(never looked at their defensive systems?)
<< Ierendi- Also assaulted by Thyatis. Since Minrothad is under Thyatian
rule, the next obvious step is to secure Ierendi. This would not only secure
the Sea of Dread, it would also give Thyatis added income and a place for
R&R. Also
small, it is percieved to be a quick and easy victory.>>
Doesn't Thyatis remember what happened in AC 600, when Mad Creeg and a
handful of convicts drove away the Thyatian overlords? Ierendi has some of
the most heavy freighters and carriers of the whole KW, without counting the
Wizards of Honor Island. Definitely not worth the trouble at the moment,
that's what i think.
<<Note--All of the Thyatian war plan takes several years to develope. Eusebius
must build the Cohortsand Navy back up to prewar strength and even expand
them. >>
Were you not saying this was to be expected for AC 1015? Or did i understand
wrong?
<<To pay for the buildup, Eusebius enacts several decrees to tax the people
that can afford it. Slave owners are taxed yearly for each slave they own.
Even the Games are taxed. Most domestic taxes are small to the individual and
are for the most part acceptable. Other taxes are in the form of tarrifs on
foriegn goods. And ironically, Thyatis takes out several substantual loans
from Minrothad and Ierendi for "domestic use".>>
With all these taxes and a policy of economic isolationism (because that's
what u get if u put sales on the import goods), i doubt Eusebius will ever
see the day of the beginning of his military campaign: he will be overthrown
by the population a long time before that date... Eusebius will put against
himself not only the lower ranks of the populace, but also the rich men and
senators (who must equally pay more), and we all know how it will end...
DM
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:11:58 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: [Mystara] Dreaming v 0.5
I promised to post this during summer, but things got in the way. Here is
one version, however, I suspect it needs some retinkering. Please comment
:)
The Dreaming (Multiverse Dimension)
Adress: The Dreaming World (adjacent to Astral Plane; an Outer Plane)
Size: Unknown, Probably Universe
Dominant Sphere: Thought
Physical & Magical Laws: Varies
Passage of Time: Varies
Spells/Powers needed to survive: None
Spells/Powers needed for movement: None
Effects on Mortal/Immortal Magic/Powers: None
Description: The Dreaming is a place of mind. It is where the souls go
when their bodies are asleep. This is the case for mortals and immortals
alike. Each dreamer enters his own landscape, called a dreamscape. This is
the reason why dreamers usually dont meet. Two dreamscapes can merge, thus
letting dreamers meet, but this does not usually happen. The appearance of
the dreamscape varies and is affected by many things. Among these is the
mental state of the dreamer, but also variables independent of the dreamer
affect the dreams.
The Dreaming is divided into the Slumbering lands, The Nightmare lands and
the Heartlands. the Slumbering lands is a place of peace and comfort. Any
conflict is solved with a result the dreamer finds good. If the Dreamer
looses in a conflict, he is transported to the Nightmare Lands, which are
the exact opposite of the slumbering lands. From time to time a dreamer
enters the Heartlands. This is where Oneiros, Lord of Dreams has his
castle.
When a dreamer enters the Heartlands he leaves his dreamscape. Anyone
entering the Dreaming physically immediately enter this area. The
Heartlands are also too large to be mapped, and many believe that even
this place is of constant change. The Dream Mages of Glantri sometimes
build towers here, though they make sure that their towers are too far
away from the Dream Kings Castle. The Dreaming is the Homeplane of
Oneiros.
Some sages believe that there is a connection between the Dreaming and the
Dimension of Nightmares. It is said that Dream Creatures who find their
way to that Dimension gain true existence of their own.
Native Races: Malfera, Dream Creatures, Dreamers, Notions.
Håvard.
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:07:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
In a message dated 97-09-16 10:49:43 EDT, you write:
<< Many good ideas in there. Maybe a little late for this year though.
Blackmoor vessel : What is it? Who discovers it? Where?
Old Alphatia : What kind of Alphatians? Both the followers of the flame
and air have already migrated to Mystara long ago. Not sure I like this.
Serraine : see Cthul's mail.
Ixion : Hmmm. I think the Old One's intervention cooled him...
>>
Blackmoor vessel is a sunken submarine. Plans have it to be full of
Blackmoorian Mechanized Battle Chassises Mk. IX (9th series of an automated
battle robot), a Blackmoorian Cybernetic Comptrol Computer (interesting
background on the living computer), and a whole sub load of Blackmoorian
weaponry. The weapons are for the most part ruined from years of neglect. In
its years of service the sub was a search and destroy vessel. It also carried
a contengency of battle robots to assist in boarding vessels and small
amphibious operations. There's actually alot to the sub. But I haven't time
to key it all in. BTW it was the battle bots that killed the crew. And the
living computer can broadcast a holographic image of herself anywhere on the
ship. PCs that board the ship should discover many interesting aspects about
the legendary Blackmoor.
The Alphatians from Old Alphatia are just that, Alphatians from that
particular deminsion. They are not on Mystara as a second wave of immigrants
yearning for a new home beside their long lost brothers. Several groups have
joined up to visit Mystara and pay a social call (so to speak).
As for Ixion (and for that matter the rest of his allies during WotI), I am
sure that they would still seek some vengence upon their adversaries during
the WotI. Too much damage was done not to dictate some retribution. However,
such actions would be subtle as to not dictate intervention from The Old
Ones. As to the nature of Ixion's revenge, I will not elaborate too much as I
am sure someone will find reason to criticise. Revenge will not be the mass
destruction of Glantri. In fact, it is quite mellow. Simply revolves around
Etienne realizing he was wrong and asking Ixion for help with Glantri's
problems.
As stated previously, I am aware of the near completion of the 1015 Almanac.
I know that to implement any of these would knock it out of kilter. I merely
wished to give a few brief examples of some of the ideas that I had for
Mystara. Some of the ideas drew criticism or the want of clarity. I provided
more details in an attempt to make my position and reasoning clear. Even when
expanding on the details, I am criticized even further. I guess I will have
to dig out all my notes and present my ideas in their entire context.
All of my ideas are based on long term happenings. Few events are intended to
materialize overnight. I don't see Eusebius waking up one morning to declare
his wanting Minrothad to "join" the Thyatian Fold. Things take time to
develope.
Alex
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V2 #141
*****************************
From: owner-mystara-digest@ (mystara-digest)
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #142
Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
Sender: owner-mystara-digest@
Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@
Precedence: bulk
mystara-digest Wednesday, September 17 1997 Volume 02 : Number 142
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:24:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
<< > Here is a quick overview--
> Minrothad- Assaulted and partially conquered.
I don´t know the exact timeline in the almanac 1014 & 1015, but I
think you pay far too less attention to the territory of Minrothad
and Ierendi. I think Minrothad is a perfect place for PC to act on
their own, as the Guilds themselves always try to stay neutral in any
conflict. Therefore it is up to the PC to interact with "worldwide
matters". IMC the PC happened to establish a dominion within the
Guilds and are now preparing for the War (WofI!!).
*But they don´t know yet*
So I think there should be a little more than .. ok, everybody is at
war, ok, so be it in Minrothad, they are attacked!!
> Irendi- Assaulted
I think the same can be said regardinbg Ierendi!!
Sorry, but this area is my site of interest and this is one thing I
always was wondering about. Leaving such a good adventuring site out
of history.
Til next time, Wizzard >>
No one wants to see their particular "honey hole" disturbed. I tend to favor
the Alphatians so you can imagine my feelings about how it was treated in
WotI. Still, change is good for. Any assault on Minrothad offers much
potential for your PCs to "strike back at the Thyatian aggressors" as
partisians..
But don't worry. The notion is one of my ideas. You will also notice the use
of "partially conquered". Also keep in mind that much can happen during a
war. My idea is not to have Minrothad remain a Thyatian holding long.
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:15:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
Here I go again........
<< ><< Shadow Elves- Civil war. Cut off eastern Darokin.
> >
> Yes, there'll be a civil war, but with several surprises...
> Anyway Darokin won't be involved in this civil war.>>
>
>Darokin is brought into the Shadow Elf War by City of the Stars wanting to
>turn the surface dwellers against the Shadow Elves of Rafielton and
Aengmor.
>I forgot to mention in original message that Princess Tanadaleyo had gained
>diplomatic ties with Glantri, Darokin, and partial contact with Karameikos
>and Wendar through the Alfheim.
Oh really? It's strange you know, cause nobody told us... I mean, we pay our
contributors for the Almanac and they didn't get such important news!? It's
not acceptable!>>
They are just ideas.
<<>Instead of sending troops, the Darokinians are more interested in the
trouble
>in Glantri and the Thyatian aggresions elsewhere. As long as Selenica isn't
>beseiged they will not take any action. During this time, Ylaruam sees the
>trouble the city is in and offers to protect the city. Since Selenica is
>mostly populated by people of Ylaruam heritage and it is genuinly feared
that
>the SE will assault the city, it accepts Ylaruam's offer to annex and
>protect.
Again, read the PWA1014. Ylaruma cannot possibly offer its help to anyone,
especially Darokin, because now the Kin faction rules, and they are
extremely obnoxious towards foreigners. Ylaruam has closed its borders for
now, and besides, it's having a hard time with internal problems, i shall
say...>>
Let me add the aspects of a "vision" from Al-Kalim. Then add the Kin faction
exiling the surviving Preceptors to Selenica as instructed in the vision. Not
only would this give Ylaruam a buffer zone between it and the nonbelievers to
the west, it would also feed the religious zealots other addiction; the
chance to convert their "fallen brethren" back to "the true way".
> <<Wendar- Drawn into war.
>
> True, but not the shadowelvish one>>
>
>Wendar drawn into war against Glantri on the side of the Ethengar. This is
>mostly due to the ill treatment of the Erewan by the Glantrians. Also, it
is
>feared that the Glantrian resentment will spread to Wendar. And then there
is
>the trouble brewing in the Heldannic Territories.
Ahr ahr ahr! Not at all, my friend, not at all. I can tell you for sure the
Wendarians are not up against Glantri in this war, because they have
problems coming from the north. And besides, i think it's just not
believable that wendar (who has friendly relationships with Glnatri) joins
the Ethengarians (who have never heard about Wendar) just to punish the
other glantrians for their mistreatment of Erewan (wendar and erewan have no
ties whatoever, besides being elves... but then, the Belcadiz are elves
too)...>>
As I have often repeated....Give the matter time to develope.
> <<The Alfheim- Joins in on the Shadow Elf Civil War.
>
> Well, in a certain way...>>
>
>Yes, the Alfheim would be split. Felt that the 1014 Almanac was leading up
to
>that.
Oh yes, they will definitely split: you cannot guess how close to the truth
you are... >>
Well at least I am right about something.
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:33:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
<< JUSTIN Karameikos as ruler of Machetos? Every description I've read about
him, seems to imply that he would hate to be a ruler! What about Valen?>>
IMO would hate the role of king. Being Duke may not seem as daunting. Justin
would probably see the economic challenge as...... well a challenge. Valen is
young. Plus I doubt his mother would allow her favorite child to be taken
away to assume a Duchy in a "foriegn" land. Mainly Justin was chosen for his
flair for commerce and his name. Plus I figured it would make for interesting
gameplay. The son of the traitor Stefan ruling a Thyatian Duchy.
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:42:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara: New Topic: Alphatia or Thyatis?
In a message dated 97-09-16 17:15:23 EDT, you write:
<< This may seem a bit of an unfair, biased or even bad question but I've
always wanted to know- "Which Empire do most of you favor, or rather
enjoy more- Thyatis or Alphatia"?-"Why"?>>
I favor Alphatia. Most of my Mystara period PCs were and are Alphatian.
<< If that may seem a bit rude than how about-"Which would you rather be a
citizen of- "Alphatia or Thyatis"?-"Why"?>>
Alphatian of course. Spellcasters rule. Nonspellcasters are put into a
position to prove their worthiness. Keeps things moving. Also notice that in
times of war, the Alphatian Army fights the enemies of the Empire. The mages
are called in when their offensives become stagnant or the main objective is
within reach. I also like the appeal of the Alphatian mage being untamed and
Chaotic, but will drop everything to serve the Empire in time of crisis. Then
there is the fact that dispite all its might, it cannot quite acheive mastery
of Known World. Something always occurs to snatch victory away.
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:46:29 GMT
From: "ASTON WEBB CLUSTER" <pas527@novell3.bham.ac.uk>
Subject: [Mystara] Thyatis
Hi, this is my first posting to the mailing list but I have read at
list fifty of the digests.
I know it is a bit late but here are my details
Name - Peter Scrivener
DoB - 17/2/77 20 years old
Home - Birmingham, England
Occupation - Student
Interests - Apart from OD&D other rpg's and rugby
Started playing D&D at about 11 (9 years ago)
Interests - Thyatis, Compiling a country index with references to the
products they appeared in and listing all the different clans of the
elves.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:20:00 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Immortal of Healing Wanted!
Maybe it's just me, but i don't seem to recall any Immortal devout to such
an important task as that of Healing and Medicine in general. Has any of you
ever thought about this thing, or ever found out an immortal that suits this
role? I was thinking about Valerias, but she doesn't really fit in the part...
Some trivia
Also, i have only recently discovered the Patroness of Arts: it's Thalia
(Eternal of Energy -see old Immortal set and IM1 or just search into my
homepage under the description of Immortals: i updated Shawn's article a
bit). Also one of her most talented assistants, Guidarezzo (mentioned in
Immortal set) is Patron of Music.
That's all, i believe.
DM
dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/3090
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:15:20 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Church of Darokin
Talking about detailing churches (hi Haavard! :)), anyone ever thought
about the Church of Darokin? GAZ11 says that there is no "state religion" in
Darokin and that every faith is here represented, but in GAZ5 there is
mention of a Church of Darokin (see under the NPCs description for the
Patriarch of the Church in Alfheim Town, as well as in the description of
Alfheim Town). I think that this CoD really exists and that it's a mix of
some of the most important immortals worshipped in Darokin by its mixed
population. This is the pantheon i've thought of:
Asterius (Head): Patron of Trade
Koryis: Patron of Peace and Prosperity
Ixion: Patron of Law and Honesty
The Twelve Watchers: Patrons of Crafts and Work
Darokin's culture and society is modeled after the ideals that each of the
above mentioned Immortals embody, so i think they are the better candidates
for the Church of Darokin, which is not "the official" religion of the
Republic, but the most widespread.
What do you think?
PS: what about adding Valerias as Patroness of Love and Charity?
DM
dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/3090
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:26:48 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dreaming v 0.5
At 16.11 17/09/97 +0200, you wrote:
>The Dreaming (Multiverse Dimension)
<snipped>
>Description: The Dreaming is a place of mind. It is where the souls go
>when their bodies are asleep. This is the case for mortals and immortals
>alike. Each dreamer enters his own landscape, called a dreamscape. This is
>the reason why dreamers usually dont meet. Two dreamscapes can merge, thus
>letting dreamers meet, but this does not usually happen. The appearance of
>the dreamscape varies and is affected by many things. Among these is the
>mental state of the dreamer, but also variables independent of the dreamer
>affect the dreams.
Did you read the Nightmare Lands (Ravenloft supplement)? It seems so :)
Anyway, that accessory put the Nightmare Lands in the Border Ethereal and
gave a good explanation about the nature of Dreamscapes: do you think it's
still valid with your own view?
>The Dreaming is divided into the Slumbering lands, The Nightmare lands and
>the Heartlands. the Slumbering lands is a place of peace and comfort. Any
>conflict is solved with a result the dreamer finds good. If the Dreamer
>looses in a conflict, he is transported to the Nightmare Lands, which are
>the exact opposite of the slumbering lands. From time to time a dreamer
>enters the Heartlands. This is where Oneiros, Lord of Dreams has his
>castle.
>When a dreamer enters the Heartlands he leaves his dreamscape.
Just one question: how does he manage to leave his dreamscape and enter the
Heartlands?
>Native Races: Malfera, Dream Creatures, Dreamers, Notions.
>
IIRC the malfera is from the Nightmare Dimension: do i miss something? Also,
what are Dreamers?
Again, talking about Ravenloft NL, how do you insert the Nightmare Court in
your project (if u know about it) and which ties does it have to Oneiros?
All in all a very interesting setting. I think we could work out a
connection with the Nightmare Lands for RL, though (that would be really COOL).
Well done, Haavard!
DM
dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/3090
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:41:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
<<Wait. I don't know very much about Eusebius and Thyatis, but I thought he
was a wise man looking for peace, not for war and conquest.>>
He is wise. He is also cunning. As Emperor, he will also wish to expand the
Empire.
<<Thyatis cannot afford another war anytime soon. I don't Thyatians will
accept more taxes (remember that taxes in Thyatis are 25%, quite high).>>
Increase of revenue will be done carefully. Eusebius knows that over taxing
the people could bring about his removal. For the most part he centers his
attentions on those that can afford to pay more, the wealthy. This will gain
support from the poor. Also, expansion of the Cohorts will be slow and
executed along stages to meet the recent need. Also, Eusebius draws heavily
upon the poor to fill the ranks by making the Service seem grand. Such
propaganda would be most welcome the poor eaking out a living in the slums.
To build war materials, Eusebius decrees that the poor and unskilled laborers
should assist. Offering incentives of extra food and a few coins should do
much. Also, there is the possibility of gaining a Skilled Trade. The
government jobs and projects during the Great Depression in the US comes to
mind.
<<Moreover Thyatis should worry about NACE before attacking someone else.>>
Thyatis should think about rebuilding its economy and national morale first.
Conquest is a quick way to do this. Just look into RW history. Nazi Germany
used war to create jobs and draw resources. And though a bit differant than
Germany, WW2 had much to do with the U.S. coming out of the Depression.
I also remind you that NACE and Karameikos expect some sort of agression from
Thyatis. NACE is experiencing growing pains and has more domestic concerns to
address. Given the distance and arrangement of the NACE kingdoms, any
Thyatian assaults would be costly given the depleted status of the Thyatian
Military (especially the Navy). You might want to consider the Minrothad and
Ierendi offensives as dress rehearsals for any future amphibious landings
against NACE.
<<If they wage war at Minrothad they'll have to face both NACE on the east
and
the Western Defence League on the West. Not to mention the consequences
such a war would have on (the already sick) Thyatian economy: Thyatians
ships assaulted by faster Minrothad vessels in every corner of the KW, big
embargo against Thyatian goods...
I guess Darokin and Ierendi would be the first to help Minrothad. And
remember that Ierendi has powerful ships in Honor Islands.
Just my opinion. >>
Points well taken. But looking at RW WW2 history, you will see Germany's use
of warfare to rebuild its own economy. Also, at first Germany took territory
in small amounts, almost daring England and France to intervene. Perhaps the
combined conquests of both Minrothad and Ierendi will be the Poland that
draws the other nations into conflict (not neccessarily war) against Thyatis.
I also stress that Minrothad and Ierendi are possible keys to the control of
the Sea of Dread. And IIRC Minrothad has been criticized by Thyatis for being
so nuetral in the past. Their lack of involvement might lessen the need for
military intervention and aid. Most nations have or are on good diplomatic
terms with Thyatis. On the other hand Minrothad has distanced itself in past
conflicts and sold materials to both sides. Karameikos fears that Thyatis
will one day try to retake the kingdom, yet they provided grain during the
Thyatian famine. There may be some protests and saber rattling, but I feel
few nations want war for Minrothad. Now throw in Ierendi and things may
change. But by then, it will be too late for the two island nations.
Minrothad's Navy is not all that big and powerful (PWA 1 and 2). Using
manipulation, overpowering numbers, and some good old fashion luck Thyatian
troops land away from Mirothad capital and quickly take the city from the
land. A seafaring nation's Navy is little good should it be outflanked and
made irrelevant.
I also made mention of partially conquered. Portions of Minrothad do fall to
the Thyatians. However, Thyatian resources are strained in these sucesses.
Minrothad feels that it has lost and sues for peace. It does manage to get
good concessions as to rule. In short, it is a Thyatian kingdom but will be
overseen by Thyatian and Thyatian supporting officials (ex. Vichy France
WW2). Everyday life will remain the same on Minrothad. The various Guilds
support this as it will allow them to return to their mercantile businesses
with only paying a percentage to the Thyatians. To them, war would be bad for
their business.
Ierendi is a different matter. The Thyatians will have to assault it head on
without the assistance of manipulation. Their assault will be aided as their
forces and resources are enlarged from the added income of the Minrothad
campaign. The landings will be greatly contested. But I am certain that the
influx of Thyatian forces which would include some of those new skyships
would force a landing. Events such as those seen during the Armada battle
come to mind. Once troops land on Ierendi soil, I plan on the government
capitulating. Given the manner that the Ierendi government is set up, it is
possible. The Thyatians will of course take control of any Ierendi vessels
and integrate them into their own Navy. This will be done with Thyatian crews
and officers. No sense repeating the folly with the Alphatian Fleets.
With Ierendi and Minrothad under Thyatian rule, nations such as Darokin and
Karameikos would have to conceed to insure that their shipping could cross
the Sea of Dread unmolested. These concessions would be helped along with
Eusebius's promises that Thyatis has no further military interests in the
area. Such promises would be met with suspicion. But given the position of
Ierendi and Minrothad plus the Thyatian war machine, I doubt few nations will
commit to liberating the nations. More likely, they will try to get the best
trade agreements with the Thyatians concerning Minrothad/Ierendi goods and
trade routs.
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:56:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
<< ><< Shadow Elves- Civil war. Cut off eastern Darokin.
> >
> Yes, there'll be a civil war, but with several surprises...
> Anyway Darokin won't be involved in this civil war.>>
>
>Darokin is brought into the Shadow Elf War by City of the Stars wanting to
>turn the surface dwellers against the Shadow Elves of Rafielton and
Aengmor.
>I forgot to mention in original message that Princess Tanadaleyo had gained
>diplomatic ties with Glantri, Darokin, and partial contact with Karameikos
>and Wendar through the Alfheim. Rumors of her ideas of breaking away from
her
>father's rule are rampant. The SE king hopes to show his daughter and her
>supporters that the SE can never live peacefully with the surface dwellers.
Why? Why should King Telemon want to show his daughter and her supporters
that the SE can never live peacefully with the surface dwellers?
IMO King Telemon would like to go live on the surface with his daughter,
but he knows that his subjects underground need his guidance. Moreover he
realizes that he's probably too old to change his lifestyle and settle on
the surface.
Anyway Telemon loves his sons and wants them to live peacefully on the
surface among humans and demihumans.>>
To keep the SE together as a whole. He would use the "surface dwellers" as a
common thread to do this. Telemon would lose territory if his daughter breaks
her people away from the overall authority of the City of the Stars. No king
wants that.
I assume he would also bow to the Shamans of Rafiel as they would see the
above ground actions as "heresy". IIRC this was touched upon in the 1014
Almanac. I assumed that the events were leading up to something along these
lines.
Telemon probably would like to live above ground. Most likely not side by
side with the surface elves (at least the Alfheim). I also feel he may be
angry about his daughter taking the initiative instead of himself.
<<>To do so, King Telemon sends troops to occupy the land corridor that
>surrounds the former nation of Alfheim and connects Selenica to the rest of
>Darokin. Telemon hopes that the Darokinians will send troops retake the
>corridors. He hopes the SE will come together to stave off the humans.
Thus,
>giving the SE a common goal once again.
>Instead of sending troops, the Darokinians are more interested in the
trouble
>in Glantri and the Thyatian aggresions elsewhere. As long as Selenica isn't
>beseiged they will not take any action. During this time, Ylaruam sees the
>trouble the city is in and offers to protect the city. Since Selenica is
>mostly populated by people of Ylaruam heritage and it is genuinly feared
that
>the SE will assault the city, it accepts Ylaruam's offer to annex and
>protect.
>
I see your point. Unfortunately we've already discussed (and for a long
time) the Shadow Elves events (Aengmor, Rafielton and City of the Stars)
and you're ideas doesn't fit very well in our timeline draft.>>
No problem. They are just ideas.
<< I don't want to spoil the almanac any more, anyway the general idea among
us (i.e. me, Herve and Thorfinn) is that the Shadow Elves can live
peacefully on the surface among humans, dwarves, halflings and even elves
(Alfheim ones too).
Keep in mind that Shadow Elves aren't an evil race, just a misunderstood
one.
I suggest you to read the book "Son of Dawn" in the First Quest series,
it's useful to better understand the human-SE relationship.
Anyway in next almanac you'll find also the warlike face of SE... there'll
be a war and many other interesting things ;-)>>
I agree about the SE being not evil (except for those that follow
Atzanteotl). Their nature and parculiarities are on of the aspects that
intrigue me. And do not get me wrong. I am not a war mongerer. There just
seems to be a great deal of tension in Mystara. Tensions that lean to war.
Just look what they did to Alphatia in the last big war. Still ticked off
about that.
I anxiously await the next Almanac. It will be interesting to see what you
have in store for us. As I have repeatedly stated, things change. What you
have in store for the SE may put the elves in a whole new light and brew up
other ideas from everyone.
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 12:42:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
In a message dated 97-09-17 03:37:17 EDT, you write:
<< > Old Alphatia : What kind of Alphatians? Both the followers of the flame
> and air have already migrated to Mystara long ago. Not sure I like this.
>
Maybe there could be followers of water, a hitherto quiet group that has
magically noticed the sinking of Alphatia and decided to move there, to
live underwater. They could either join the NACE (if they were friendly
with air followers) or start a war (if they were hostile)... >>
No particular Following. Just Alphatians from the Home Dimension popping in
on their brethren for a visit. May have heard Alphatia's problems from
Alphatian patron Immortals such as Alpahtia or Ruzuud. Could be interesting.
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 12:44:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
<< > The Duke dispatches several copies of his last will and testament to the
> people of Machetos, Justin Karameikos, and Eusebius.....
The biggest problem I personally have with the thought of Machetos being
annexed to Karameikos is twofold: 1) Machetos is a large area, and to
have the Thyatian Emperor willingly give away that much of the land of
his continental territories seems a bit extreme,>>
That's just it. He wouldn't be giving it away. It would remain under the
Thyatian Banner. Justin would just be ruling it. Though a Karameikan in name
and in nationality, he is of Thyatian blood. I will also add that any such
placement would carry many conditions to insure Eusebius that Justin will not
do anything unThyatian like. Even if Justin wants to have Machetos annexed by
Karameikos, I doubt he has the power. Eusebius would just have to have his
troops remove Justin from his position.
<<and 2) in the context of your having the Thyatian territories on the Isle
of Dawn proclaim their independence, this would be a major loss of territory
for the Empire of
Thyatis. Which is my big problem with it, though to be fair, it wouldn't
be the first time a large territory (read: Alphatia, Alfheim) lost a lot
of ground.>>
This was hinted at in PWA3 I believe. Based on the proposal of the IoD
kingdoms forming a coalition simular to Western Defense League during the
negotiations with the Thothians. Such a potential loss of territory would
cause Eusebius to take actions to hold his Empire together. If IoD were to
break away from Imperial rule, then surely other territories would do so if
the Emperor does not act. Since there is so much of Eusebius's kin ruling on
IoD, any actions would be done with kid gloves. Can't have the Imperial
family duking it out.
<< > Should have said Dolores is unmasked before the Council. Her true nature
as
> Synn is exposed.
As has been pointed out before (I believe Ann Dupuis mentioned this, once
upon a time as well)- that probably wouldn't do a whole lot. I mean, this
is a council that has 1) A Kobold Witch-Doctor, 2) A Nosferatu/Vampire,
3) A Werewolf, 4) A Lich. One dragon, more or less, wouldn't make a whole
lot of difference. >>
Dolores is exposed as a night dragon. Her whole identity as Synn will not be
recognized. Not that it would affect her as a Princess of Glantri, but it
could open up some of the more human Princes. Could decrease her influence
among the human Princes. Also would play havoc with Glantri politics.
Eventually, Jaggar and Dolores are bound to have it out. There's too much bad
blood since Jaggar came to his senses. Though content to destroy her
politically, eventually one of them (betting on the chaotic Dolores/Synn) is
going do something drastic like direct confrontation.
<<> The internal strife in House Sylaire is from a nasty confrontation
between
> Malachie and Dame Genevieve de Sephora. The affair splits Averoigne as
> members choose sides. Matter is made worse as Etienne announces his
fondness
> for Sephora.
It wouldn't split House Sylaire, so much as cause a break in the alliance
between House Sylaire and House Morlay. Nitpick, nitpick. ;)>>
Mainly referring to Malachie's close relationship to the d'Ambrevilles. There
is also his allegiances with Richard and Isadore due to their werewolf
nature. The split would be as much emotional as actual. Most would be
confused as to who to side with. And then there is Etienne (should he
officially resurface) who would he sympathize with, loyal kinsman Malachie or
lifelong friend and former as well as potential love interest Genevieve.
<< > The Thyatians. The conquest of Minrothad is the first stage of the
Thyatian
> war plan. Minrothad is a trade rival. It also is positioned to where
Thyatis
> almost has to conquer it. A small nation with sizeable income, it would be
an
> easy and profitable conquest.
> The whole Minrothad Offensive is actually well planned out by Eusebius. He
> stages pirate attacks on shipping to manipulate the Minrothads to allow
him
> to have his navy patrol the area. First, he threatens to end any and all
> trade with Minrothad unless he can be certain Thyatian ships will be safe.
> This pressure is helped as several other nations threaten the same
measures
> as their ships too have been ravaged. The Minrothad government gives in
and
> grants Thyatian naval forces to patrol. These patrols allow the Thyatians
to
> gain vital navigation data for the area. The Minrothads even offer to pay
for
> a large portion of the expense of keeping the Thyatian naval in their
waters.
The biggest problem with this is that Minrothad will not be standing
alone against Thyatis. As it is the largest single shipping conglomerate
in the Known World, there are many nations that would be severely damaged
by anyone messing with Minrothad. A lot of nations would come to their
aid, not the least of which (IMO) would be Ierendi, which has the
greatest navy.
It would be like one single nation trying to conquer Darokin- there would
be a lot of people who would object. >>
Logical. But is Karmeikos and NACE willing to go to war with the Thyatians to
do this? Objecting and commiting are two different things. Intervention is
unlikely especially if a suitable trade agreements can be reached with
Thyatis/Minrothad by the concerned parties.
Darokin may send the DDC in to try to negotiate favorable terms for Minrothad
and favorable trade agreements for Darokin. As with NACE and Karameikos, I
feel it unlikely that Darokin would commit to costly and nonprofitable war
with Thyatis over Minrothad.
As far as the Western Defense League, I feel that it would be split on
opinion especially if above trade agreements were reached with one or more
members of the League. I also doubt that the WDL has the combined combined
military capability to retake the islands. Even if they committed their
entire armed forces strength, they would leave themselves open for attack
through eastern Karameikos.
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:21:43 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortal of Healing Wanted!
On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, DM wrote:
> Maybe it's just me, but i don't seem to recall any Immortal devout to such
> an important task as that of Healing and Medicine in general. Has any of you
> ever thought about this thing, or ever found out an immortal that suits this
> role? I was thinking about Valerias, but she doesn't really fit in the part...
I think that Chardastes has Healing in his portfolio.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:32:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Galeifel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Almanac ideas: reply (long)
In einer eMail vom 17.09.97 15:31:28, schreiben Sie:
<< how can Thyatis manage to conquer Serraine (even if it's stranded) if
they by AC 1015 don't have a single skyship (IIRC the only one they built
was hijacked by Alphatian rebels)? >>
IIRC, two mere were bapticized in 1013 by emperor Eusebius himself
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:30:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Galeifel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Almanac ideas: reply (long)
In einer eMail vom 17.09.97 15:31:28, schreiben Sie:
<< how can Thyatis manage to conquer Serraine (even if it's stranded) if
they by AC 1015 don't have a single skyship (IIRC the only one they built
was hijacked by Alphatian rebels)? >>
IIRC, two mere were bapticized in 1013 by emperor Eusebius himself
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:37:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Galeifel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
In einer eMail vom 17.09.97 16:18:15, schreiben Sie:
<< IMO would hate the role of king. Being Duke may not seem as daunting.
Justin
would probably see the economic challenge as...... well a challenge. Valen
is
young. Plus I doubt his mother would allow her favorite child to be taken
away to assume a Duchy in a "foriegn" land. Mainly Justin was chosen for his
flair for commerce and his name. Plus I figured it would make for
interesting
gameplay. The son of the traitor Stefan ruling a Thyatian Duchy.
>>
Well, I think Olivia does not want him to sit around at court, with probably
no chance whatsoever to become king. I think she would like to see him take
the challenge of duke of Machetos, which after all is VERY close to
Karameikos. After all, if he doesn't go to Machetos, he'll probably go
adventuring again. Valen' is 28, which is only 4 years younger than Stefan
when he became Grand Duke. And he's just as much Stefan's son as Justin.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:11:50 -0300
From: Victor Caminha <wykthor@esquadro.com.br>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortal of Healing Wanted!
At 17:20 17/09/97 +0200, you wrote:
> Maybe it's just me, but i don't seem to recall any Immortal devout to such
>an important task as that of Healing and Medicine in general. Has any of you
>ever thought about this thing, or ever found out an immortal that suits this
>role? I was thinking about Valerias, but she doesn't really fit in the part...
>
*BEEP* Out of Lurker mode
Hi DM..quite a long time:))) About the Immortall of Healing, i know of a
minor immortal described in B1-9 and in the WotI, Name Chardastes,immortal
worshiped in Karameikos..IIRC in B1-9 there is a story for basic level adv
to bring bacg a Siler/platinum bell of allegedly healing powers , a symbol
of the Immortal
[]s
Victor Caminha
*BEEP* back to lurker mode
"Receive the bounty of your hero's deed
Tainting thy life by the gift of the dead
Eternally running from a priestly bead
Unable to bear the Orb in your head
You'll walk in the darkness so alluring
Without Hope to cleanse your sin
Away from the joy of the living
Forever to serve your Twin"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:19:36 +0200
From: Diego Calugi <scalugi@biuno.dada.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Darokin Forts
DM wrote:
>
> While reading thru PWA2 i spotted something odd in page 23 (Darokin Map):
> Darokin seems to have built two before undetailed keeps, namely For Nar and
> Fort Marny, near the Atruaghin Border. Got any clues on the reasons? Did u
> notice it? And which Legions are assigned there?
>
> DM
Also another fort, called Fort Highlake, is being built in 1011 AC "to
protect nothwestern Darokin both from the mountain humanoids and any
furhter incursion by the Desert Nomads..." (Felmont 18, 1011 AC).
- -Diego
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:49:44 +0300 (GMT)
From: sq7s@dc.uba.ar (Sebastian Quiles)
Subject: [Mystara] Heldanics in HW
Hi people... in WotI and PWA says than Heldanics knights have discovered
the HW (in 978 if I can Remember) but I haven't see any information about
the travel and where they settled in HW...
Where can I find this Info?
thanks
- --
Sebastian Quiles
================
Universidad de Buenos Aires
ARGENTINA
mailto:sq7s@dc.uba.ar
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:19:12 +0200
From: Diego Calugi <scalugi@biuno.dada.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] List Survey: wanted
Better late than never! :)
BTW thanks for asking, DM.
Name: Diego Calugi, also known as Milla or as Dieguito de Em-pòl :)
E-mail: scalugi@biuno.dada.it
From: Empoli, Florence, Italy
Interests: Karameikos, Multiverse and everything that is releted to
Mystara
Age: 17 (28th May 1980)
Profession: Student
Website: none
Marital status: Engaged with an elf :)
Started playing RPGs: 1980 (IIRC the RPG was called 'Life')
First played D&D: OD&D red box in 1989. Never played AD&D.
Non-gaming interests: Too much to write them all: soccer, tennis,
billiards, computer games, X-Files, comics, science-fiction and so on...
Working on: Aligment Project with Thorfinn Tait (a project that will
change the way
RPGs work... :) and many others.
Good idea this survay!
- -Diego
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:01:55 -0500
From: brunciak <brunciak@erols.com>
Subject: [Mystara] Re: Mystara: New Topic: Alphatia or Thyatis?
> What sells better in RPGs than a war? Okay, so if Alphatia wins,
>they take over Thyatis, and soon the rest of brun falls...? Who
>would want to play in a world where you have hule owning one half and
>Alphatia the other? (Besides, they would have wasted their money
>developing poor little karameikos :) Should Thyatis win, there would
>be a huge power vacuum, leaving plenty of room for play and
>development...Surprised which one happened?
Actually, in my first campaign that I DMed in Mystara (I decided to keep
the world the way it was before the campaign), I had Alphatia make an
attack on Thyatis on its millenial jubilee while I ran X5 and X10 (It
was my first time DMing a world and I wanted a flare for the dramatic).
It ended up with Alphatia crushing Thyatis and threatening the Known
World from the east while Hule came from the west. At that point the
Known World allied and decided to fight for it's right to exist,
basically a total world war. Thyatis rose again but did they ever
change their outlook towards the world. In closing, I liked Alphatia
and Hule beating up the rest of the countries because it allowed the
world to get together for a reason (in a big way) to show the
determination and other noble traits of it's nations; it also provided
many role-playing opportunities.
RMB
P.S. You may wonder why I made Alphatia seem "evil". Well I don't think
it's evil but when I first played I didn't like the fact of Alphatia
being that powerful or Thyatis' attitude (they seemed too mean and
corrupt). So I decided to change them. Once I grew to love Mystara and
appreciate all it has to offer, I changed most of my changes.
P.P.S. Thanks for your responses! They gave some added insight on what
fans think of the two empires.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:49:10 -0400
From: wjnowackl@MEM.po.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Almanac
>On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Herve Musseau wrote:
>
>> Old Alphatia : What kind of Alphatians? Both the followers of the
flame
>> and air have already migrated to Mystara long ago. Not sure I like
this.
>>
>Maybe there could be followers of water, a hitherto quiet group that
has
>magically noticed the sinking of Alphatia and decided to move there, to
>live underwater. They could either join the NACE (if they were friendly
>with air followers) or start a war (if they were hostile)...
Hmmm. Followers of Water moving to the Alphatian Sea. Hmmm. My
Undersea timeline has a triton nation already there. Hmmm. I wonder
what might happen... :)
Aaron Nowack
"Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:38:48 -0400
From: wjnowackl@MEM.po.com
Subject: [Mystara] Heldanics in HW
- ------------------------- Begin Original -------------------------
Hi people... in WotI and PWA says than Heldanics knights have discovered
the HW (in 978 if I can Remember) but I haven't see any information
about
the travel and where they settled in HW...
Where can I find this Info?
thanks
- --
Sebastian Quiles
================
Universidad de Buenos Aires
ARGENTINA
mailto:sq7s@dc.uba.ar
- ------------------------- End Original -------------------------
IRC, they had a base called Stone-something and had conquered Oostdock,
a gnomish floating continent. However, both of them were
conquered/liberated by the Alphatains in AC 1011 (I think)
Aaron Nowack
"Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:52:23 -0400
From: wjnowackl@MEM.po.com
Subject: [Mystara] A list survey
Well, if its not to late to fill out a survey, here's mine:
Name: Aaron Nowack
E-mail: wjnowackl@mem.po.com
From: Born in Topeka, Kansas; Now in Mobile, Alabama
Interests: Undersea, anything Mystara
Other Intrests: Magic: The Gathering, Storyteller RPGs, reading
Age: 13 (9/29/83)
Profession: High School student and Assistant Hebrew School Teacher
Website: none
marital status: unmarried
started playing RPGs: bought Rules Cycolpedia in 1990 or so; first
campaign should start next week
First played D&D: seea above
Campaign playing: Wrath of the Immortals
Current Projects: Undersea Timeline AC 1010-1014, Undersea armies War
Machine stats
Aaron Nowack
"Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis"
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V2 #142
*****************************
From: owner-mystara-digest@ (mystara-digest)
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #143
Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
Sender: owner-mystara-digest@
Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@
Precedence: bulk
mystara-digest Thursday, September 18 1997 Volume 02 : Number 143
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:20:17 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
At 11.56 17/09/97 -0400, Alex wrote:
>No problem. They are just ideas.
>
<snip>
>I agree about the SE being not evil (except for those that follow
>Atzanteotl). Their nature and parculiarities are on of the aspects that
>intrigue me. And do not get me wrong. I am not a war mongerer. There just
>seems to be a great deal of tension in Mystara. Tensions that lean to war.
>Just look what they did to Alphatia in the last big war. Still ticked off
>about that.
>
>I anxiously await the next Almanac. It will be interesting to see what you
>have in store for us. As I have repeatedly stated, things change. What you
>have in store for the SE may put the elves in a whole new light and brew up
>other ideas from everyone.
>
I'm glad you didn't take my remarks as personal ones, and sorry if I looked
a bit too critic about your ideas.
It's just that it took several weeks and long discussions with Thorfinn to
put together a satisfactory draft of Shadow Elves events for 1015, then you
come on the list and start sending your ideas here and there...
You can imagine my feelings at first... like yours when you read about
Alphatia sinking into the sea.
Anyway I won't continue this discussion, otherwise I'll end up spoiling you
all the events for 1015 :)
- --------------
Fabrizio Paoli
brizio@lunet.it
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
- --------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:16:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: StarHawk <starhawk@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Symbols or Coats of Arms
On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, DM wrote:
> I was wondering about the symbols of the various nations of the KW.
> Especially Thyatis and Alphatia. IIRC, Alphatia's symbol is a winged bull,
> while Thyatis' is an eagle with two lightning bolts in her talons (and not
> that kind of bird suggested in X11 -the one in the imperial seal stolen by
> the pregenerated thief- another proof of the unlikeliness of pregenerated
> characters background). Do i remember well? And what about the others? Let's
> try:
>
> Alphatia (NACE?): winged bull
> Thyatis: eagle with lightning bolts in her talons
> Glantri: Hourglass (i know it's d''Ambreville's symbol, but...)
Interesting question. What is the d'Ambreville's crest? According to X2
its Sable, a Pheonix Or. (Black with a gold pheonix on it.) But I seem
to remember the Glantri Box saying it was a black hourglass on a gold
triangle on an orange shield.
> Darokin: Daro (or sun? it's round and yellow after all)
Little, yellow, different?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:19:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: StarHawk <starhawk@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Symbols or Coats of Arms
On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, DM wrote:
> I was wondering about the symbols of the various nations of the KW.
> Especially Thyatis and Alphatia. IIRC, Alphatia's symbol is a winged bull,
> while Thyatis' is an eagle with two lightning bolts in her talons (and not
> that kind of bird suggested in X11 -the one in the imperial seal stolen by
> the pregenerated thief- another proof of the unlikeliness of pregenerated
> characters background). Do i remember well? And what about the others? Let's
> try:
>
> Alphatia (NACE?): winged bull
Gules, a Lammasu Or (Red with gold Lamassu or Shedu I forget which has a
human head)
> Thyatis: eagle with lightning bolts in her talons
Purpure, an eagle displayed argent (purple with white or silver eagle)
> Glantri: Hourglass (i know it's d''Ambreville's symbol, but...)
Gules with hourglasses Or (Gold hourglasses on a red field)
> Darokin: Daro (or sun? it's round and yellow after all)
Sable, a besant Or (black with gold coin)
> Karameikos: the silhouette of the ship (from GAZ1 coats of arms)
Argent chevron Azure, bearing a blue ship above a dagger (point up)
(white with a blue inverted V)
> Minrothad: the libra (from GAZ9 symbols: this is official)
argent and azure fess (horizontally divided) with purpure libra and five
stars (in the white upper half)
> Ierendi: a dolphin?
argent and azure fess, sea serpent purpure
> Ylaruam: twin palms with the sun behind?
Gules and Or fess, Cresent moon argent (in the red half)
> Rockhome: a hammer (or the symbol of the Everast, which i don't know)
Gules, a sitting hawk over crossed hammers Argent
> Alfheim (old): the king's family coats of arms (?)
Vert, an Oak Argent (Green with White or silver Oak)
> Five Shires: ??
Orange, five stalks of grain Or
> Ethengar: a horse?
Vert, a horse head couped (jagged ending) Or
> Northern Reaches: ?
Vestland: Sable, a Sealion Vert
Ostland: Or, a Boar's Head couped Gules
Sodjerford: Purpure and Argent chequy (checkerboard)
> Heldannic Territories: Black rampant lion in white background
Argent, a Lion Rampant Sable
> Denagoth: a wyvern
?
> Wendar: a tree?
Vert, a Pine Argent
> Sind: ?
Or, a Tower Sable
> others?
>
Broken Lands: Gules, a Helm over a Crys (point up) Or
Atruaghin: Argent, a Wolf head couped Orange
Mystara: Argent, a Dragon rampant Gules
White and Silver (Argent) are interchangeable
So are yellow and gold (Or)
They metallic colors were rarely used in real heraldry since they were
expensive.
The coats of arms across the back of the boxed sets and the Player's
survival kit and DM's SK are:
Darokin, Karameikos, Mystara, Glantri, and Thyatis
Along the sides of the pattern are Karameikos (left) and ?
Its presumably Sable, a Griffon Rampant Argent. But I don't know which
country that is? Heldann maybe? But I thought it was a lion?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:34:24 -0500
From: "Jess E. Turner" <VVega@pnx.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara: New Topic: Alphatia or Thyatis?
"If that may seem a bit rude than how about-"Which would you rather be a
citizen of- "Alphatia or Thyatis"?-"Why"?"
Thyatis hands down has my heart. The Empire reminds me of a great deal of
the Roman Emperor. I love the intrigue and treachery of the Roman period,
check out "I Claudius" for a taste of what it was like. I'm not saying I
would last long there, perhaps none of us would :), but I have always been
fascinated by Thyatis.
Jess
- ----------------------------------------------------
From childhood's hour, I have not
been as others were.
- ----------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:40:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Symbols or Coats of Arms
The Karameikos boxed set had some relevant info on page 111 of the main book:
In a message dated 97-09-17 09:38:21 EDT,
dalmonte#dsc.unibo.it@provincia.ra.it writes:
<< Alphatia (NACE?): winged bull>>
No information is given in the figure, as it is post-Wrath.
<< Thyatis: eagle with lightning bolts in her talons>>
Probably correct. The illustration omits the lightning bolts.
<< Glantri: Hourglass (i know it's d''Ambreville's symbol, but...)>>
The illustration shows thirteen of them -- one per Principality, perhaps?
<< Darokin: Daro (or sun? it's round and yellow after all)>>
The round yellow disk is outlined by two circles -- I would lean towards
the coin explanation.
<< Karameikos: the silhouette of the ship (from GAZ1 coats of arms)>>
That ship is balanced on the tip of a dagger, which is over a blue chevron.
<< Minrothad: the libra (from GAZ9 symbols: this is official)>>
The illustration shows a balance, tipped to the viewer's left, with three
six-pointed stars on that side and two on the other.
<< Ierendi: a dolphin?>>
The illustration seems to show some sort of sea monster. I would call
it a sea serpent if if did not have fins.
<< Ylaruam: twin palms with the sun behind?>>
The illustration shows a crescent on a red field in the upper half, and a
yellow field in the lower half.
<< Rockhome: a hammer (or the symbol of the Everast, which i don't know)>>
A pair of crossed hammers on the bottom, and some sort of perched bird
on the top, all on a red field.
<< Alfheim (old): the king's family coats of arms (?)>>
A tree (complete with visible roots) on a green field.
<< Five Shires: ??>>
The illustration looks like five stalks of grain on an orange field.
<< Ethengar: a horse?>>
A yellow horse's head on a green field.
<< Northern Reaches: ?>>
Soderfjord: A purple and white checkerboard pattern.
Vestland: A green sea lion on a black field.
Ostland: A red boar's head on a yellow field.
<< Heldannic Territories: Black rampant lion in white background>>
Looks right.
<< Denagoth: a wyvern>>
Not present in the figure, so I cannot comment.
<< Wendar: a tree?>>
It looks like some sort of pine tree, again on a green field. This time,
no roots are visible.
<< Sind: ?>>
A black tower on a yellow field.
<< others? >>
Broken Lands: A partial helmet with horns on top, with a wavy-bladed dagger
on the bottom, both on a red field.
Atruaghin: A golden animal (a dog, perhaps?) on a white field.
Mystara (!): A red dragon rampant on a while field.
I am not defending any of these choices, just describing them. But they
do seem to be the latest "official" word.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:59:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mystaros@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
In a message dated 97-09-17 13:22:14 EDT, you write:
<< The biggest problem I personally have with the thought of Machetos being
annexed to Karameikos is twofold: 1) Machetos is a large area, and to
have the Thyatian Emperor willingly give away that much of the land of
his continental territories seems a bit extreme,>>
That's just it. He wouldn't be giving it away. It would remain under the
Thyatian Banner. Justin would just be ruling it. Though a Karameikan in name
and in nationality, he is of Thyatian blood. I will also add that any such
placement would carry many conditions to insure Eusebius that Justin will
not
do anything unThyatian like. Even if Justin wants to have Machetos annexed
by
Karameikos, I doubt he has the power. Eusebius would just have to have his
troops remove Justin from his position. >>
Such relationships between Liege and Lord were not at all uncommon,
especially in the latter days of feudalism. Look up some of these
dynasties/groups/regions/people in the history books: Hapsburg, Burgundy,
William the Conquerer, Henry V (England), Austria, Hungary, Charles V
(Spain)... lots of examples to choose from...
Mystaros
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:11:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mystaros@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara: New Topic: Alphatia or Thyatis?
Alphatia, hands down. I love it so much in fact that IMC Alphatia never sank;
it merely fell into anarchy and civil war (as did Thyatis, for that matter;
the cost of the war was too great for the subject peoples, and various
colonies have been rebelling). Anyway, my Alphatia is something like the
Angevin Empire of Randall Garrett's "Lord Darcy" stories meets Jack Vance's
"Dying Earth". Truly an Empire Built by Magic... but currently in a state of
chaos. Eriadna remains dead, Zandor is mad on his (hollow) throne, the
various kingdoms all vie for supremacy and the various colonies have broken
off all contact (Bellissaria, Esterhold, the IoD territories, the Alatians,
Thothia, etc). I'll post the current situation if anyone is interested...
remembering, of course, that it is entirely non-canonical... :)
Mystaros
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:16:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mystaros@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortal of Healing Wanted!
In a message dated 97-09-17 11:55:23 EDT, you write:
<< Maybe it's just me, but i don't seem to recall any Immortal devout to
such
an important task as that of Healing and Medicine in general. Has any of you
ever thought about this thing, or ever found out an immortal that suits this
role? I was thinking about Valerias, but she doesn't really fit in the
part... >>
Chardastes... Chiron also comes to mind. In RW Greek myth, Chiron taught
Asclepius the ways of healing; Asclepius was the first mortal to bring a
being back from the dead, which earned him the (fatal) wrath of Zeus...
Asclepius' sons, Machaon and Podalirius became the mythical fathers of Greek
medicine. Perhaps Chardastes was a Thyatian, Milenian or Traldar sponsored
for Immortality by Chiron (who should be much higher in level IMO)? I think
Chardastes was discussed earlier...
Mystaros
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:26:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara: New Topic: Alphatia or Thyatis?
I had not intended to comment on this thread, but here goes anyway:
In my campaign (which began shortly before the "Princess Ark" series
and thus had no sympathetic portrayals of Alphatians available),
Alphatians were regarded as incarnations of evil -- my player characters
(who had a Heldannic Druid as an NPC companion) would sooner have
raided the Abyss than visited Sundsvall. Thyatians were not trusted
either, but the player characters did actually visit that Empire and were
not treated too harshly there. While most of the player characters were
native to Glantri, they were not fully comfortable with its philosophy.
In short, the only nation that they fully trusted was Darokin -- the only
nation that tried to be tolerant of everybody. I suspect that that is the
best home base for adventurers in a Known World campaign -- no
other nation has so many friends and so few true enemies.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:36:49 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortal of Healing Wanted!
On Thu, 18 Sep 1997 Mystaros@aol.com wrote:
>
> Chardastes... Chiron also comes to mind. In RW Greek myth, Chiron taught
> Asclepius the ways of healing; Asclepius was the first mortal to bring a
> being back from the dead, which earned him the (fatal) wrath of Zeus...
> Asclepius' sons, Machaon and Podalirius became the mythical fathers of Greek
> medicine. Perhaps Chardastes was a Thyatian, Milenian or Traldar sponsored
> for Immortality by Chiron (who should be much higher in level IMO)? I think
> Chardastes was discussed earlier...
IRC, Chiron has just recently attained full immortality. According to
official info he was earlier immortal in the sense of not being able to
die. Now he has become a true immortal.
Well, ofcourse we could change that if we want to...
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:57:39 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin
On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, DM wrote:
> Talking about detailing churches (hi Haavard! :))
Hi Marco :)
> Asterius (Head): Patron of Trade
> Koryis: Patron of Peace and Prosperity
> Ixion: Patron of Law and Honesty
> The Twelve Watchers: Patrons of Crafts and Work
How does Koryis fit into this. Isn't that an Ochaelan Immortal. Not that
the patron of Peace and Prosperity wouln'd be popular in Darokin.
some Q's on the top of my head..
Would you say the CoD is a powerful organization? Is it Hierarchic? Who
is the head? What kinda clothes do their priests wear? Is it an old
organization?
> PS: what about adding Valerias as Patroness of Love and Charity?
I think that is a good idea. Also I'd like to hear some concepts of the
faith. World view, afterlife, meaning of life, metaphysics and stuff
Haavard
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:16:42 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dreaming v 0.5
On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, DM wrote:
> At 16.11 17/09/97 +0200, you wrote:
> >The Dreaming (Multiverse Dimension)
> <snipped>
> >Description: The Dreaming is a place of mind. It is where the souls go
> >when their bodies are asleep. This is the case for mortals and immortals
> >alike. Each dreamer enters his own landscape, called a dreamscape. This is
> >the reason why dreamers usually dont meet. Two dreamscapes can merge, thus
> >letting dreamers meet, but this does not usually happen. The appearance of
> >the dreamscape varies and is affected by many things. Among these is the
> >mental state of the dreamer, but also variables independent of the dreamer
> >affect the dreams.
>
> Did you read the Nightmare Lands (Ravenloft supplement)? It seems so :)
> Anyway, that accessory put the Nightmare Lands in the Border Ethereal and
> gave a good explanation about the nature of Dreamscapes: do you think it's
> still valid with your own view?
I dont have it. I did however read about it in Dragon and it is part of my
inspiration. Maybe you could give me some information on this. It could be
changed to fit it, if those ideas are good.
In this version the Dreaming World is an outer plane, but I think it would
be better to have it as a plane paralell to the ethereal. Also, as a
friend of mine pointed out, Oneiros being an immortal with the Dreaming as
his homeplane would make him far too powerful, since he'd get so much
influence over peoples souls..
However, hey may be kind of a janitor, fixing stuff and not really being
the owner of the plane.
> >The Dreaming is divided into the Slumbering lands, The Nightmare lands and
> >the Heartlands. the Slumbering lands is a place of peace and comfort. Any
> >conflict is solved with a result the dreamer finds good. If the Dreamer
> >looses in a conflict, he is transported to the Nightmare Lands, which are
> >the exact opposite of the slumbering lands. From time to time a dreamer
> >enters the Heartlands. This is where Oneiros, Lord of Dreams has his
> >castle.
> >When a dreamer enters the Heartlands he leaves his dreamscape.
>
> Just one question: how does he manage to leave his dreamscape and enter the
> Heartlands?
Normal dreamers cannot chose to leave their dreamscape, but it sometimes
happens anyway. Dream Mages and other specifically trained can do so by
making an int check. (or you could introduce a creming skill allowing a
skill check to enter the heartlands..)
> >Native Races: Malfera, Dream Creatures, Dreamers, Notions.
> >
>
> IIRC the malfera is from the Nightmare Dimension: do i miss something? Also,
> what are Dreamers?
Yep. I changed this slightly. The Malfera are originaly from the Dreaming,
but some have escaped into the Nightmare Dimension, gaining true
existance. If a Nightmare creature escapes by other means, Oneiros can
easily destroy them, but, not when they escape via this route. It could be
some plot by the inhabitants of the Nightmare dimension.
Dreamers are the souls of sleeping people. They seem very confused, so
communicating with them is hard.
> Again, talking about Ravenloft NL, how do you insert the Nightmare Court in
> your project (if u know about it) and which ties does it have to Oneiros?
As mentioned I dont have that supplement, but If possible I'd loike to
incorporate it. I'd say Oneiros is the true ruler. The Nightmare court may
believe theyt have some power, but thats probably just because Oneiros
lets them. You have the same thing in Gaimans version of Hell. Demons and
Devils believing they rule the place, while Lucifer could easily destroy
them all. Oneiros is probably True Neutral, if you need an alignemnt for
him. He is very responsible, but keeps to himself and is not interested in
other peoples affairs..
I think he should be a Hierarch of thought, but I need some help with
working out tye statistics because I've never used the immortals rules.
> All in all a very interesting setting. I think we could work out a
> connection with the Nightmare Lands for RL, though (that would be really COOL).
Yep. I think that'd be cool. I was thinking of asking if anyone knew about
that, but I guess I forgot about it. Please semd me some info.
> Well done, Haavard!
Thanks buddy :)
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 06:36:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Galeifel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Heldanics in HW
In einer eMail vom 18.09.97 00:07:27, schreiben Sie:
<< IRC, they had a base called Stone-something and had conquered Oostdock,
a gnomish floating continent. However, both of them were
conquered/liberated by the Alphatains in AC 1011 (I think) >>
Yeah, that's all true. The name of the base was Stonehaven, an island in the
Anathy Archipelago
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 06:44:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Galeifel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A list survey
Hi, I've been posting fo a few days now, here's my profile
Name: Alexander Simon Blum
E-mail: Galeifel@aol.com
From: Born in Oakland,California; now living in Freiburg, Germany
Interests: Mystara, esp. Glantri
Other Intrests: soccer, history, computers
Age: 15 (01/05/82)
Profession: Gymnasium (that's a school name in german) student
Website: none
marital status: unmarried
started playing RPGs: 1990, bought D&D players guide from red basci box
second hand
First played D&D: when I discovered the DM guide a week later
Campaign playing: 1012
Current Projects:Looking through my Mystara collection for hinted-at events
Garafaele Galeifel
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 07:12:15 +0100
From: "Leroy Van Camp III" <malacoda@lesbois.com>
Subject: [none]
Mystarans,
I hate to bear possible bad news, but here goes...
Just today I have learned that Illuminati Online, the ISP that hosts
the Mystara Mailing List will begin charging its subscribers for this
service; up til this point mailing listss were a free service to members.
At this point the price is still uncertain, but may range as high as
$25
extra dollars a month, above and beyond what I already pay in user
fees. It looks like it will be based on the number of subscribers
a list has.
It is my intention ot keep this list going as long as financially
feasible
for myself. But, if the price increase goes as high as an extra 25 bucks,
I will be forced to drop my subscription to Illuminati Online.
I assure you I will keep all posted as this develops.
Leroy Van Camp III
malacoda@lesbois.com
owner-mystara-l@io.com
"You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle."
MST3K
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:59:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Magesmiley@aol.com
Subject: Re: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline and other stuff)
>>>My point is, that even if the difference between Magic and Psi is obvious
>>>to us(IMO mainly because it uses different game mechanics), it may not be
>>>so to the people of Alphatia.
Obvious? To the people of Alphatia? As someone else pointed out the use of a
detect magic spell should make the matter very obvious, and given the number
of folks in Alphatia who CAN cast that simple first level spell I don't think
that there is very much chance of psionics being mistaken for magic in
Alphatia (if the PC was actively attempting to fool the citizens at large
about his/her effects being based on magic and being creative about, that
might be a different story). Once again I repeat some of what I said
earlier: 1) Psionics is not magic (and will not detect as such) and
2)Alphatian nobility requires the use of magic and the ability to use a
spell.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:23:19 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: [Mystara] Re: your mail
On Thu, 18 Sep 1997, Leroy Van Camp III wrote:
> It is my intention ot keep this list going as long as financially
> feasible
> for myself. But, if the price increase goes as high as an extra 25 bucks,
> I will be forced to drop my subscription to Illuminati Online.
> I assure you I will keep all posted as this develops.
Please do keep us informed. This is bad news indeed. If this is the case
we should start looking for new sites to move it. There must be others who
will be willing to keep this going for us. My Internet supplier NVG, could
allow me to run the list, but I dont know whether I have the time or
capacity to be a keeper of the list. Unfortunately none of you can become
a keepers of the list if it is relocated here, since NVG membership is
limited to students of my university.
So anyone else who can get a free mailinglist going? Not any chance of
moving it to a Wizards of the Coast Site? Not that I'm all sure that I
want those guys to run the list.
Hope things will work out.
Havardf.
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:29:12 -0700
From: "Patrick" <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin
> Subject: [Mystara] Church of Darokin
<snip>
> What do you think?
IMHO, there is no need to make an organized Church of Darokin comparable to
the Church of Karameikos, but what you ahve written seems to be pretty good
if you feel the need for such a church. Also, WotI and/or one or more of
the PWAs states that Khoronus has a following in Darokin. Perhaps he
should be another addition to the pantheon.
The following is IMC, so maybe you don't even want to see it, but... IMC,
there are a number of churches (mostly) peacefully competing and
coexisting. The Church of Traladara is especially popular in the South and
East, although the Church of Karameikos is gaining in popularity,
particularly in Selenica. Otherwise, there is at least one temple of most
immortals known to most inhambitants of the Known World within the cities
of Darokin and Corunglain, with a high concentration of peace and
trade-oriented immortals in the former and war and combat-related immortals
in the latter. Akesoli, in addition to the pantheon you mentioned + a few
others, is home to temples to many traditional Sindhi immortals. The
worship of Bozdogan is illegal in the Republic, but there is a large temple
of Loki in Akesoli (they don't know Bozdogan's real identity). In the
smaller towns there should be a cleric for each 250 people or so, although
many small villages will not have a temple, but rather just a small
priest's house. Usually there will be clerics from different orders in
towns large enough to support several clerics. They will generally engage
in petty competition, but they share the same general goals of prosperity
and protection for the villages. At any rate, Darokin should have a very
ecclectic pantheon.
Patrick
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:36:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Magesmiley@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] future events
>>>Well, you see, in my campaign I've had all three step down, and one of
thier
>>>successors is Joshuan gallidox, after all a quite famous hin adventurer.
>>>Favian Vern becomes editor of the almanac, thereby explaining its return
to
>>>its original format.
Gets my vote
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:35:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Magesmiley@aol.com
Subject: Re: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline and other stuff)
Ack!
I really should read all my mail before I start replying, so my apologies
for having to read my stuff a few different times.
>>>So the question then becomes whether psionic powers are spells in the
>>>sense that matters in Alphatia -- the statement from DotE does not settle
>>>the matter at all.
I'll offer these to sources to support my views of the Alphatian nobility
debate:
1) The Complete Psionics Handbook page 7 and page 109, it goes to some great
lengths to point out that psionics are not magic, as well as somewhat
defining what is magic.
2) DotE Book 3, page 16 defines the nobility requirements fairly clearly.
>>>y the definition given, I am not sure that Clerics would
>>>qualify, even though they obviously are accepted as nobles in Alphatia.
>>>After all, their powers are granted by the Immortals -- I am not sure how
>>they can be "taught a spell".
This is true also, and a good point, but as DotE specifically allows clerics
to be noble (and doesn't mention psionics at all, giving us this entetaining
debate) I think they take the view that the Immortal who grants them the
spell "teaches it" to them.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:52:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Magesmiley@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin
>>>Asterius (Head): Patron of Trade
>>>Koryis: Patron of Peace and Prosperity
>>>Ixion: Patron of Law and Honesty
>>>The Twelve Watchers: Patrons of Crafts and Work
My thoughts on the matter would be that the "The Church of Darokin" is a
collective name for the followers of the Twelve Watchers. As noted in the HW
description it appears that his followers believe him to be several different
Immortals. The "church" might just be a way that the Immortal known as the
Twelve Watchers keeps the followers of his seperate identities working
together.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:05:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Almanac ideas: reply (long)
In a message dated 97-09-17 10:31:28 EDT, you write:
<< << Thyatis- Eusebius discovers his fathers personal diaries (many
suprises).
Makes moves to repair its economy, imperial pride, and international
standing by conquest.>>
I don't think this is be the BEST move Eusebius could do for some practical
reasons:
1. Thyatis is still recovering after a 5 years war that really crashed the
thyatian economy and military. Eusebius is currently trying to reassert
Thyatis rule in the old territories (esp. Isle of Dawn) and in the few small
dominions he's been able to add to his empire (Alatian Isles)
2. Eusebius now (by 1015 AC, at least) knows that Alphatia still exists
inside the HW, and that NACE is a powerful political and military enitity
(see the facts in Esterhold), backed by the Old Hag herself (Empress
Eriadna). He surely won't risk his own empire now that the international
order seems to have been restored.
3. Eusebius must first of all resolve Thyatis internal problems (Corruption,
bad economic situation, famine in some part of the country) before even
looking to other nations with expansionistic aims.>>
Warfare has often been a means to rebuild a nations economy. Not only can it
be used to eliminate rival nations in areas such as trade, it also offers
added income (tribute) and resources.
His father's diaries contain all manner of info he can use. Some of it is
info on things he already knows such as HW. Other things include the results
of Thincol's private investigations. Corruption, allies, enemies, contacts
outside of Thyatis, backroom politics, and so on. There are also little tid
bits of Thincol's own veiws. One such veiw, which shocks Eusebius, is his
father's realization that Thyatis should not have sided with the Glantrians.
As for stability I have to disagree. The SE are quarreling within their own
ranks. Ethengar is knocking on Glantri's door. The Heldannic Knights have
lost the favor of Vanya. Ylaruam is just ending a power struggle. Then there
is Alphatia and NACE. An Empire split into two worlds (HW and RW) is not
exactlty stable.
<< Trouble in the Hinterlands with renegade Clans and their Emerond
allies.>>
Never heard that the Hinterlander were allied with Emerondian. From what we
know from the Princess Ark's Journals, only Haldemar knows of their
existence... Are all these references drawn from your personal campaign?>>
As Thyatian Cohorts press deeper into the unoccuppied Clan territories, the
Emerond would certainly begin to feel a bit anxious. If the Clans are
conquered then surely it will not be long before Emerond is discovered and
subsequently assaulted. Better for the Emerond to suppliment the Clans with
weapons in an attempt to bog down the Thyatians. And if things still are
pressing, then there is the possibility that the Emerond come out of
seclusion for defense sake. I really would like to see the Emerond used more
in Mystara. Kinda wasteful just to have them there but not in use. Lot of
potential Hooks due to there "mysterious" past.
<<Flying City of Serrainne within reach of Thyatis' legions. Serraine comes
with Thyatian reach as Thyatis builds its own skyships and expands Retebius
Air Fleet. Also, Serraine experiences some technical difficulties and must
land to make repairs (ends up being a complete overhaul). Originally the
gnomes set a course for Aeria but are forced to land in a shallow area in
the New Alphatian Sea.>>
<<So, if i understood well Thyatis captures Serraine while it's under repair
in the New Alphatian Sea? Just two questions:
1. where the heck is the Alphatian Sea "shallow"? You probably mean they
landed in one of the small rocky islands of the sea, don't you?>>
Yes and no. I figured that like present day Ionace, there would be other
lands that were still above water or at least fairly shallow. The Grey
Mountains and Aasla Spur Mountains). The gnomes, given adequate time, would
erect legs to the underdecking of the city to support its landing. Since the
City is forced to land prematurely, such a landing would be done in a shallow
area. The legs keeping the Flying Island above the waves.
<<2. how can Thyatis manage to conquer Serraine (even if it's stranded) if
they by AC 1015 don't have a single skyship (IIRC the only one they built
was hijacked by Alphatian rebels)?>>
First, no one said the Thyatians would succeed. Second, any assault would be
done with the combined forces of the Navy, Skyships, and Retibius Air Fleet.
Third, I wouls say that such an undertaking would take several years to
develope. Based on my own series of events, I'd say AC 1017 at the earliest.
IIRC the 1014 almanac or Joshuan's Almanac (1013) mentions that a Thyatian
skyship warns Serraine that the Empire will defend its own skys. It is also
mentioned that the Thyatians want the Flying City but are lacking the numbers
of skyships.
<<3. but even IF Thyatis HAD more than a skyship, and IF these skyships
SPOTTED Serrain while patrolling the New Alphatian Sea for some unknown
reasons (not their territory and not interesting at all, from a military
point of view), don't you remember that they still would have to cope with
the Top Ballista squadrons, with all the Sphinxes and Pegataurs on board at
that moment, and maybe even with the defense systems of the city (if they
want to conquer it)? I still think this event is a bit unprobable. >>
The Hook would be rumors of Serraine having to land to make repairs. Thyatian
forces would attempt to seize the opportunity to take Serraine. And once
again, I never said they would take Serraine. I said that the Flying City was
within reach.
<<Thyatian Skyships "developed" from stolen plans from Aeria. >>
Talking about skyships, do you still think Thyatis would be able to conquer
Serraine using crap skyships as YOU YOURSELF seem to suggest here? I must
admit however, that the plan to give Thyatis fake plans is a good one...
*grins*>>
Actually, the defects on the "crap skyships" would have been discovered by
then and corrected (or at least compensated). These defects showed themselves
during the Ierendi Offensive while trying to "even the odds" after dropping
off its cargo of troops. Thyatis's inability to take Serraine is due to the
hastiness of assembling the striking force, bad logistics, and the more than
capable defenses of Serraine. Plus, the Alphatians offer a hand of
assistance. It is their sea and they would take much offense at any sizable
Thyatian force in the area. Actually, their aiding the gnomes is the first
open and official act of resisting the Thyatian agression.
<<Duke of Machetos dies leaving the Duchy to one of the Karameikos family
members.>>
<skipped>
A very subtle plot full of possible twists. It may be feasible, but i think
that Callastian's reason to leave Machetos to Justin would be essentially a
revenge against the Emperor (which is now Eusebius -the Duke hated Thincol,
and his hatred has been passed onto his son). Also, since he's a bitter man,
he probably wants to make Justin (related to the former owner of the Duchy
-maybe he thinks that were it not for Stephan, the Emperor would have
granted him a more profitable dominion) experience the same things he had to
overcome in life. Possible, it depends on how Michael will work on this. >>
Heavens be! Someone sees what I am driving at. There is a lot of potential
with Justin running Machetos. I would really like to see the lad break away
from his family to make a go of it on his own. Justin's appointment would
cause much chaos in both Karameikos and Thyatis.
As an example of how spread out the whole thing is. Just imagine that Justin
spends a few years rebuilding Machetos's economy. He becomes a favorite of
Eusebius (and vice versa) much as Eriadna's son Tredorian became a favorite
of Thincol and Eusebius. BTW I planned on having Tredorian be Justin's second
in command. It would be good to see another DotE NPC brought back into the
mix.
<< As for Anaxibius wanting the dominion for his father, well, this was in
1000
AC, when he was 30 years old. Now that we are in 1015 AC, his father is
probably 55-60 years old: a bit too old to become a ruler without ANY
specific reasons. And if he really wants to grant him a dominion, why
doesn't he carve out one in his new Barony in the Isle of Dawn (Anaxibius
and Stefania Torion are now married and rulers of Redstone, IIRC)?>>
Without any reason and qualifications. Also, Anaxibus and his wife Stefana
have their own dominion on IoD. So the ex gladiator has no place to argue for
it. He probably would be ticked off about it though.
<< Karameikos- Beginning of construction of the Karameikan Royal Air Force
(skyship). The Karameikan Skyships are being developed by the Terari and the
School (with help from Aeria, of course). The Skyships will not be along the
scale of Alphatian Man of War. They will be smaller craft designed to carry
a dozen or so troops and a handfull of catapults and ballista. Their role is
mainly to patrol and defend the borders.>>
A futuristic scenario. Actually, Karameikos lacks the FUNDS to create a
whole fleet of skyships, and i think it also lacks the magical power to do
it. Yes, there are Terari and other Alphatian nobles in Karameikos, but just
because a mage hails from Alphatia this doesn't mean he's 18th level
(minimum level required to create HUGE magical items such as a skyship) and
that he knows how (or want) to build a skyship. Remember that Karameikos is
still not as powerful as Thyatis in the magical field, and if Thyatis itself
has not yet a skyfleet, why should Karameikos have one? I think there are
plans to build one, but these are veery long term plans (let's say a
decade), unless they come up with a less expensive and difficult method
(gnomes of Highforge?).
I also think that sky is the trade lane of the future... and i think smart
merchants will start soon thinking about this idea.>>
You are correct about the cost and magical labor. The Karameikan vessels
would be small and less expensive. And since they are to be intended for
patrol and emergency deployment of troops, there would be few of them. Small
skyships would be no big deal for the Alphatians (remember Aeria is to be
involved). They have been building huge skyships, both military and civilian,
for decades.
<< School of Magecraft opens second university.>>
Wow! Why? Where? Who? When?>>
I was leaning towards northeastern Karameikos. I see Karameikos as going a
bit magic happy with the Alphatian refugees and all. The school in Krakatos
would be hard pressed to accomidate these would be mages. Logically, another
facility would be needed. Mainly the second university would be the main base
for the Karameikan skyships. It would specialize in Air magics and the
building and maintenance of them. There would also be other forms of magic
taught.
<<Glantri- Internal split among House Sylaire and its allies. Etienne
reappears
officially. The internal strife in House Sylaire is from a nasty
confrontation between Malachie and Dame Genevieve de Sephora. The affair
splits Averoigne as
members choose sides. Matter is made worse as Etienne announces his fondness
for Sephora.>>
BUMMER! Frankly, don't take it as a personal flame, but this is not even
thinkable. Etienne almost EXPOSED himself before time to come into aid of
his ally and friend Malachie (see Almanac 1014): i don't think he will now
turn his back on the White Wolf, who for his part helped the House of Sylare
to find its rightful ruler (see Isidore vs Henri) and has ever been a devout
follower of Etienne. I think the reappearence of Etienne is the REAL EVENT
that has to be dealt with, especially by the other Princes and by us above
all. Do we want him back immortal or not? >>
Actually the whole thing is a temporary disagreement. This is Glantri. When
Malachie kills off Genevieve Etienne brings her back to life with a Wish
spell. The whole matter is simply a flare in tempers. With Etienne as
moderator, the matter is quickly resolved.
<<Innocenti meets his match.>>
Poor guy. He's only a mad, ravenous, slimy, creepy old wizard who lost
everything: don't you feel pity for him? Who is destined to be his
nemesis?>>
Pity? This is Glantri we are talking about. His killer can be anyone. The
whole deal is part of an Adventure Hook.
BTW, Innocenti is not the only rougue mage to get his. Bargle gets knocked
off. His henchmen turn on him during the Day of Dread (unable to use his
magic) and kill him for the reward money.
<<Rivalry between Brannart and Morphail intesnifies.
The Morphail/Brannart deal is something I have played with a bit. Brannart
begins summoning undead minions to throw up against Morphail. Morphail
destroys them as they enter his domain. However, each new series of
creatures is becoming harder to handle. Still, Morphail does not
retaliate.>>
He destroys them? Why? He could CONTROL them and sent them back to Brannart!
He has the power to do it being Master of Necromancy, and this would teach
Brannart to stay in his place. I don't picture Morphail as a passive vampire
who likes to defend without lashing at his enemy in turn. Nope, this is not
the personality of a true Old Vampire.>>
Morphail would destroy the undead minions to show Brannart how powerful he
is. Also, I have Morphail as being a bit arrogant about the whole matter
despite his secret doubts. IIRC it is mentioned that Morphail is becoming
less well groomed and has been having difficulty controlling his vampires.
Morphail may of just overstretched his own limits of power. Then there is the
fact that Brannart is a lich and a very unusual one at that (Radiance
induced). Liches are traditionally the lords of the undead. Anyone can be a
vamp. It takes but a nibble. A lich is different. You have to work at it.
Morphail knows this, might even fear this.
<< He feels that since he is the Grand Master of Necromancy, he is to defend
and show Brannart that he can take anything the lich can throw at him. Deep
in his mind, Morphail feels doubts as to his future. Morphail has studied up
on Lichdom and knows how powerful they are. He is afraid that should he have
to meet Brannart in a duel, he might perish. Especially since he has come to
a basic understanding as to the potential power of the Radiance.>>
<<Now, surely he knows liches are powerful, but he is a nosferatu wizard of
28th level after all (he was in 1000 AC, so by 1015 he should be let's say
31st level): no easy prey even for a lich! And he's the Master of
Necromancy, too! And what's this story of his knowledge of the Radiance?
GAZ3 never mentioned he knew anything about the Radiance at all (Brannart
was the one who knew). >>
Brannart hasn't exactly been idle in Crownguard. You can pretty much assume
he has spent every unliving moment working on spells and spell research. As
for Morphail getting wind of the Radiance, it is an assumption which
progresses after WotI. Brannart is Morphail's biggest foe. The vamp/nosf.
would obviously spy on him and soon discover the connection the lich has to
the Radiance.
<<The Belcadiz will probably have troubles of their own, especially if the
Erewan were to make some agreement with the Alfheim to join them in Wendar
and Karameikos. And since Wendar is likely to join the Ethengar due to the
hostilities between Glantri and the Erewan...>>
Nope, this is not the case as i've already said in a previous post. Wendar
has at the moment its own internal problems, which will soon escalate in
1016 AC to unimaginable proportions. It's absolutely impossible that Wendar
will meddle in the Ethengar-Glantri war, and more unlikely that it will
welcome other elven refugees (the reasons will be explained in next
Alamanac, so be patient and trust my words).>>
Given current status, you are correct. But who is to say what Wendar will do
in a year or so. Mainly I was thinking about the Glantri/Ethengar conflict
spilling over into Wendar and pulling them in. The whole Erewan issue would
just be an added catalyst.
<<Minrothad- Assaulted and partially conquered by the Thyatians.
The conquest of Minrothad is the first stage of the Thyatian war plan.
Minrothad is a trade rival. It also is positioned to where Thyatis
almost has to conquer it. A small nation with sizeable income, it would be
an
easy and profitable conquest.>>
Ahahahaha!! Are you talking seriously? Minrothad an easy conquest? Have you
ever read GAZ9? Minrothad has a powerful fleet that rivals that of Ierendi,
and thanks to its Merchant Princes Minrothad has complete control of the sea
lanes, not only from the economical point of view. Trust me when i tell you
it's not feasible for Thyatis (see the points at the beginning of the
letter). Also, Minrothad has ambassadors everywhere and ties with every
major nation it trades with: do you really think nobody will say anything if
Thyatis invades Minrothad (especially NACE)? Besides, i think that looking
at the past history it's likely Minrothad would ally with Ierendi to stand
against Thyatis (Ierendi is not dumb and will realize that Minrothad is only
the first step in a Thyatian war plan to conquer the Sea of Dread lanes),
and Thyatis CANNOT overcome Minrothad and Ierendi's combined forces, not in
AC 1015 that is.>>
The "pirate" attacks are not done by Minrothad privateers. They are Thyatian
and ironically enough Ierendi (mercenaries). These attacks and Thyatis's
eventual role in patrolling the waters around Minrothad allow the Thyatians
to learn much of the defenses, currents, and other conditions that would
benefit their invasion. Also their role as patrol would make the sighting of
Thyatian vessels less alarming. And the Thyatian assault would not be a head
on affair. The assault on Trader Island is full of deception.
First, you are going by Minrothad military strength as told by Gaz (AC1000).
I am going by PWA strengths which are lower.According to PWA 2 Minrothad has
3 Naval Divisions consisting of a total 108 small sailing ships and about
3000 personel. At full strength (23 fleets) Thyatis can send about 40,000
marines aboard war galleys and sailing ships. It should be noted that Thyatis
will send at least 10 Fleets plus 10 Cohorts on troop transports. I assure
you that following my plan of battle, Minrothad does fall (partially) Only
Fortress Island, Alfheisle, and Seahome manage to resist. They in turn settle
for peace.
The Ierendi offensive (the following year) will not have the benefit of
surprise. Thyatis will throw 25 Fleets (by then Thyatian Navy is expanded to
30 Fleets total) and 15 Cohorts. In short, the assault on Ierendi is done
with pure strength and numbers. It will not be pretty for either side.
<< Ierendi- Also assaulted by Thyatis. Since Minrothad is under Thyatian
rule, the next obvious step is to secure Ierendi. This would not only secure
the Sea of Dread, it would also give Thyatis added income and a place for
R&R. Also
small, it is percieved to be a quick and easy victory.>>
Doesn't Thyatis remember what happened in AC 600, when Mad Creeg and a
handful of convicts drove away the Thyatian overlords? Ierendi has some of
the most heavy freighters and carriers of the whole KW, without counting the
Wizards of Honor Island. Definitely not worth the trouble at the moment,
that's what i think.>>
You cannot neccessarily leave such a force so close. That same force could
one day become a landing force that threatens Thyatian held Minrothad. It has
to be dealt with. The assault on Ierendi is a gamble. Any memories of the
AC600 incident will be put behind them. At least Eusebius will claim that,
stressing size of assault force and the lessons learned since.
<<Note--All of the Thyatian war plan takes several years to develope.
Eusebius
must build the Cohortsand Navy back up to prewar strength and even expand
them. >>
Were you not saying this was to be expected for AC 1015? Or did i understand
wrong?>>
Simply ideas for the coming years. I really should have clarified that more
so in the original message.
<<To pay for the buildup, Eusebius enacts several decrees to tax the people
that can afford it. Slave owners are taxed yearly for each slave they own.
Even the Games are taxed. Most domestic taxes are small to the individual
and
are for the most part acceptable. Other taxes are in the form of tarrifs on
foriegn goods. And ironically, Thyatis takes out several substantual loans
from Minrothad and Ierendi for "domestic use".>>
With all these taxes and a policy of economic isolationism (because that's
what u get if u put sales on the import goods), i doubt Eusebius will ever
see the day of the beginning of his military campaign: he will be overthrown
by the population a long time before that date... Eusebius will put against
himself not only the lower ranks of the populace, but also the rich men and
senators (who must equally pay more), and we all know how it will end... >>
Hitler once said "The bigger the lie, the more easily it is believed by the
masses." The intitial sucesses will bring income to the masses. Given
Thyatis's current state, I doubt few will protest as long as things are
improving. Throw in the age old affliction of Victory Illness and the
Thyatians will do anything you ask.
Actually, what ends the Thyatian threat is Eusebius and his commanders. The
Emperor overextends his own resources (logistics). This is not entirely
Eusebius's fault. There are constant events that cause him to divert from his
original campaign plan. Then there is his Commanders wanting to impress him
in the hopes of advancement. They are not truthful about aspects such as
casualties and true numbers. Several even depart on unauthorized actionsto
gain fame (as in the case of Serraine).
Still Eusebius survives the war. He even comes out smelling like a rose.
Thyatis itself is about the same as when it started.
There are many twists and turns to the whole deal. It is not just Thyatis vs.
Mystara. In fact several nations fight alongside Thyatis and change sides as
the situation calls (whatever nation Thyatis is up against at the moment).
This side switching is seen on all sides.
Alex
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V2 #143
*****************************
From: owner-mystara-digest@ (mystara-digest)
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #144
Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
Sender: owner-mystara-digest@
Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@
Precedence: bulk
mystara-digest Friday, September 19 1997 Volume 02 : Number 144
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:30:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Magesmiley@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A list survey
I suppose I should do a full one of these now that I have been posting stuff
Name: Greg Pratt
E-Mail: Magesmiley@aol.com
From: Everett, Wa
Interests: Mystara in general, have some specific ideas for Glantri,
Norwold, Soderfjord, the Immortal City of Pandius (I bet no one has taken up
that one yet), Thyatis, Denagoth, the Hollow World, Attruaghin Clans, &
ancient Blackmoor.
Other Interests: Federation (game formerly on aol), assorted board &
computer games, collecting comics, reading sci-fi/fantasy
Age:24 (02/20/73)
Profession: Assembly Mechanic
Website: none
Marital Status:yup
Started Playing RPGs: 1982 (friend introduced me to D&D)
First Played D&D: 1982, first started DMing in 1983 (have spent 99% of my
time DMing on Mystara)
Campaign Playing: AD&D, set in Thyatis at start of WotI
Current Projects: when I have spare time I work on upcoming adventures; also
have been working on an overhaul of Norwold I have been working on for a
while (including an 8 mile hex map which fixes that %@#!$! area where the
maps come together and don't quite line up right). And trying to pick up the
few OD&D products which I am missing.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:33:36 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline and other stuff)
On Thu, 18 Sep 1997 Magesmiley@aol.com wrote:
> 1) The Complete Psionics Handbook page 7 and page 109, it goes to some great
> lengths to point out that psionics are not magic, as well as somewhat
> defining what is magic.
> 2) DotE Book 3, page 16 defines the nobility requirements fairly clearly.
>
> >>>y the definition given, I am not sure that Clerics would
>
> >>>qualify, even though they obviously are accepted as nobles in Alphatia.
> >>>After all, their powers are granted by the Immortals -- I am not sure how
> >>they can be "taught a spell".
> This is true also, and a good point, but as DotE specifically allows clerics
> to be noble (and doesn't mention psionics at all, giving us this entetaining
> debate) I think they take the view that the Immortal who grants them the
> spell "teaches it" to them.
Psionics is not magic. However it must be seen as something supernatural.
Especially the way I defined it earlier. (You don't have to use that idea
ofcourse)
Also, as someone Pointed out, Psionicists learn their powers.
In the end I'd say Its up to the individual DM. Yes I suppose DotE denies
it, but remember that there was no psionics at that time. So we will have
to adapt it to the campaign. There are many ways of doing this.
Your option would be to interpret some sentences. My option is to try and
think about what would feel right. I personally prefer Psionicists being
treated as spellcasters, even if that violates that sentence in the book.
Thats my personal opinion anyway. It is like interpreting Law. Some
schools are in favour of interpreting them word by word. Others want to
examnine the spirit in which they were written...
Håvard.
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 23:31:03 +0000
From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de
Subject: Re: [Mystara] New Topic: Alphatia or Thyatis?
> brunciak writes:
> > Hello all!
> > This may seem a bit of an unfair, biased or even bad question but I've
> > always wanted to know- "Which Empire do most of you favor, or rather
> > enjoy more- Thyatis or Alphatia"?-"Why"?
> > If that may seem a bit rude than how about-"Which would you rather be a
> > citizen of- "Alphatia or Thyatis"?-"Why"?
> > Thanks for hearing me out!
> > RMB
Reading through all your postings it seems that I´m more than a
minority, but I´m into Thyatis. I think that´s because I´m always
into underdogs. Alphatia is far more powerful, but they have the
philosophy and the thoughts of true powerful beings *thinking of the
council of 1000 wizards*
The most important point in my oopinion is that Thyatis is involved
in all the landbased quarrels and they possess not that much on the
continent. This leaves much space for political intrigue and
adventuring *good for DMing*
Also this Thyatis-Alphatia thing is like a Spartacus-Rome thing.
And I love Spartacus as I like Hannibal. Those degenerated Romans ...
although I like them I´m into Thyatis.
I´m wondering myself about this attitude because I love wizard,
magists, sorcerer, conjurer, ... but they leave far to less space for
a real good and character balanced RPG.
Please let me live, Wizzard
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 23:31:03 +0000
From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
On Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:24:15 -0400 (EDT) Alex wrote:
> Til next time, Wizzard >>
> No one wants to see their particular "honey hole" disturbed. I tend to favor
> the Alphatians so you can imagine my feelings about how it was treated in
> WotI. Still, change is good for. Any assault on Minrothad offers much
> potential for your PCs to "strike back at the Thyatian aggressors" as
> partisians..
> But don't worry. The notion is one of my ideas. You will also notice the use
> of "partially conquered". Also keep in mind that much can happen during a
> war. My idea is not to have Minrothad remain a Thyatian holding long.
> Alex
The point is as stated otherwise *can´t recall the article* that it
would be impossible to simply attack Minrothad. As stated in the GAZ
Minrothad has connection to nearly every country and because of being
neutral in ANY war everybody watches over Minrothad that no "enemy"
can lay his hands on them. So I can recall that after a long war with
Thyatis and a lot of piracy from Minrothad on Thyatian ships
*therefore the pirates guild* Thyatis loft interest in this country
and just kept an eye on them that they don´t fall for the Alphatians.
Else Karameikos and Darokin *Five SHires* also watch very closely
over their "neighbor". I do not know what is said about the
Minrothaders regarding skyships, but if they try to conquer the
islands by normals means, they will fall, because they won´t even get
a foot on the islands and all their landbased force will not help
them in a full assault. *remember: the magic is only to serve the
guild and to help them in trading and surviving on the sea*
Last point: normally they quarrel with Ierendi, but I think this
would be a point that these two island based kingdoms would unite and
as stated on the list, there would be no getting through and in my
opinion Thyatis is not that strong to go against them both. It would
be wiser for Thyatis to arrange a trade alliance with Minrothad and
have some deal to cut off their old holdings ...
*remember like the letters of marque in the good old pirating times*
There is a lot of profit and therefore a good bait for Minrothad to
not let go such an opportunity!!
So you see I can´t agree. *But I think this has to do with my
opinion, that history could be a lot different when thinking of
small countries taking their best out of the situation in WotI!!
*I think like Karameikos*
Wizzard
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 17:49:50 -0400
From: Aron Reif <areif@erols.com>
Subject: RE: [Mystara] New Topic: Alphatia or Thyatis?
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>Hello all!
>
>This may seem a bit of an unfair, biased or even bad question but I've
>always wanted to know- "Which Empire do most of you favor, or rather
>enjoy more- Thyatis or Alphatia"?-"Why"?
>If that may seem a bit rude than how about-"Which would you rather be a
>citizen of- "Alphatia or Thyatis"?-"Why"?
>Thanks for hearing me out!
>RMB
Neither! I would much rather be a citizen of the Great Empire of Dorfin IV!!
Long Live The Emperor!!
Aron Reif
areif@erols.com
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Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 17:59:55 -0400
From: Aron Reif <areif@erols.com>
Subject: RE: [Mystara] A list survey
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For those who care...
Name: Aron Reif
E-Mail: areif@erols.com
From: Centreville, VA (USA)
Interests: AD&D (Mystara, Dark Sun), Shadowrun, Computers, Hiking
Age:23 (1/5/74)
Profession: Civil Engineer (Government Peon)
Website: none
Marital Status:almost, but not quite
Started Playing RPGs: 1984
First Played D&D: 1984
Campaign Playing: generic, usually (ie. nowhere)
Current Projects: starting to look for a gaming group in my new area...anybody live in Northern Virginia??
Aron Reif
areif@erols.com
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Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 18:16:17 -0400
From: Aron Reif <areif@erols.com>
Subject: RE: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline and other stuff)
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I guess I've been gone a while, so I don't know where how all this got =
started...
I guess I never really thought that psionics were compatible with =
Mystara. None of the NPCs have psionic ability (as published, at =
least...I suppose you could modify 'em), and I would imagine that having =
psionics in this world would greatly alter the current politics. Seems =
like the psionicists would rule the world. After all, even for a low =
level psi, it's not very hard to control a mind that's totally =
defenseless (non-psionic). The leaders would have to be psionicists =
just to keep control of their own countries. You probably wouldn't have =
any countries ruled by wizards.
Seems to me it would be easiest just to keep psionics out of Mystara =
totally. If you want to use psionics, I'd recommend Dark Sun. That =
world was built with psionics in mind. Heck, even if you don't want to =
play in that world, you might want to check it out just to see how =
adding psionics changes a world. For one thing, all the really powerful =
characters are psionicists. =20
There's my two cents on the subject.
Aron Reif
areif@erols.com
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OiAAAAAAhYM=
- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCC45E.FE691240--
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:50:12 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Mystara: New Topic: Alphatia or Thyatis?
On Thu, 18 Sep 1997 Mystaros@aol.com wrote:
> Alphatia, hands down. I love it so much in fact that IMC Alphatia never sank;
> it merely fell into anarchy and civil war (as did Thyatis, for that matter;
> the cost of the war was too great for the subject peoples, and various
> colonies have been rebelling). Anyway, my Alphatia is something like the
> Angevin Empire of Randall Garrett's "Lord Darcy" stories meets Jack Vance's
> "Dying Earth". Truly an Empire Built by Magic... but currently in a state of
> chaos. Eriadna remains dead, Zandor is mad on his (hollow) throne, the
> various kingdoms all vie for supremacy and the various colonies have broken
> off all contact (Bellissaria, Esterhold, the IoD territories, the Alatians,
> Thothia, etc). I'll post the current situation if anyone is interested...
> remembering, of course, that it is entirely non-canonical... :)
I'd be interested- if only to compare it to my own post-wrath Alphatia,
which is in a very similar situation to the one you describe. :)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:06:24 -0400
From: wjnowackl@MEM.po.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dreaming v 0.5
>Yep. I changed this slightly. The Malfera are originaly from the
Dreaming,
>but some have escaped into the Nightmare Dimension, gaining true
>existance. If a Nightmare creature escapes by other means, Oneiros can
>easily destroy them, but, not when they escape via this route. It could
be
>some plot by the inhabitants of the Nightmare dimension.
Perhaps the Slumbering realms could be parrallel to the Ethereal in the
multiverse, the Nightmare realms parrallel to the Ethereal in the
Nightmare dimension, and the Heartlands an Outer plane coexisting in
both dimensions, all connected by some _extremely_ large gates. This
might explain why Nightmare creatures appear in people in the
multiverses dreams and vice versa.
Aaron Nowack
"Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:12:17 -0400
From: wjnowackl@MEM.po.com
Subject: Re: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline and other stuff)
- ------------------------- Begin Original -------------------------
Ack!
I really should read all my mail before I start replying, so my
apologies
for having to read my stuff a few different times.
>>>So the question then becomes whether psionic powers are spells in the
>>>sense that matters in Alphatia -- the statement from DotE does not
settle
>>>the matter at all.
I'll offer these to sources to support my views of the Alphatian
nobility
debate:
1) The Complete Psionics Handbook page 7 and page 109, it goes to some
great
lengths to point out that psionics are not magic, as well as somewhat
defining what is magic.
2) DotE Book 3, page 16 defines the nobility requirements fairly
clearly.
>>>y the definition given, I am not sure that Clerics would
>>>qualify, even though they obviously are accepted as nobles in
Alphatia.
>>>After all, their powers are granted by the Immortals -- I am not sure
how
>>they can be "taught a spell".
This is true also, and a good point, but as DotE specifically allows
clerics
to be noble (and doesn't mention psionics at all, giving us this
entetaining
debate) I think they take the view that the Immortal who grants them the
spell "teaches it" to them.
- ------------------------- End Original -------------------------
Couldn't the psionicists say that the master who teaches them is
"teaching them a spell"? Also, the psionicists could say that it
dosen't show up with a detect magic spell because it is a previously
unknown type of magic?
Aaron Nowack
"Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:10:52 +0200
From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Subject: RE: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline and other stuff)
Hi!
> Seems like the psionicists would rule the world. After all, even for a
low >level psi, it's not very hard to control a mind that's totally
defenseless >(non-psionic). The leaders would have to be psionicists just
to keep control >of their own countries. You probably wouldn't have any
countries ruled by >wizards.
Hmm? I don´t know where you´ve got this impression of psionics from? It
certainly is not my impression of it! I think, it is nearly impossible for a
psionicist to really control a person.
I use psionicists sprasely IMC. For example most mystics (IMC AD&D 1stEd.
Monks) tend to have at least wild powers.
>Seems to me it would be easiest just to keep psionics out of Mystara
totally. >If you want to use psionics, I'd recommend Dark Sun
IMC DS has something to do with Mystara, Dark Sun is either the future or
the distant past of Mystara, I have not yet decided which. So I now
introduce Pisonics, and there just has accured some major disturbance of the
magic ´field´, which has interacted with the Spell of Preservation, so that
spells, which don´t work in the HW only works with about 25% in the KW. This
can be compensated by using other energy for the spells, for example
life-energy-
>Aron Reif
>areif@erols.com
>Attachment Converted: c:\eudora\attach\RE Psionics in Alphatia (was R
Please STOP the attachments!
************************************************************
Peter Balazs
Wurlitzerg. 37/12
1160 Wien
0222/4816030
a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at
pbalazs@radon.mat.univie.ac.at
http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 11:59:11 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Aleksei Andrievski <k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: your mail
On Thu, 18 Sep 1997, Haavard Roenne Faanes wrote:
> Please do keep us informed. This is bad news indeed. If this is the case
> we should start looking for new sites to move it. There must be others who
> will be willing to keep this going for us. My Internet supplier NVG, could
>
Would it be perhaps possible to move this list to MPGN, like other AD&D
lists such as Realms and Dark Sun?
***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord
** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but
** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us."
** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages,
** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers."
** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread."
*****************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 18:00:14 +0800
From: Glenn Butcher <knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: [Mystara] Re: MML and Illuminati
Leroy Van Camp III rambled (malacoda@lesbois.com):
>
>
> Mystarans,
> I hate to bear possible bad news, but here goes...
> Just today I have learned that Illuminati Online, the ISP that hosts
> the Mystara Mailing List will begin charging its subscribers for this
> service; up til this point mailing listss were a free service to members.
> At this point the price is still uncertain, but may range as high as
> $25
> extra dollars a month, above and beyond what I already pay in user
> fees. It looks like it will be based on the number of subscribers
> a list has.
> It is my intention ot keep this list going as long as financially
> feasible
> for myself. But, if the price increase goes as high as an extra 25 bucks,
> I will be forced to drop my subscription to Illuminati Online.
> I assure you I will keep all posted as this develops.
>
I can provide a site here for a mailing list, at this club. I would be happy
to provide technical admin-type stuff, but thats it.
Currently the club doesn't charge for email traffic, and accounts here
are cheap (between $5 australian to $25, quotaless diskusage, etc). This
would allow Leroy to remain list owner if he wishes.
The club is likely to want some measure of renumeration for a mostly
international mailing list, but I would be happy to pay this, assuming
traffic is reasonable. Any idea how much the list generates Leroy?
All in all, not the best option (free would be good), but it's available.
>
> Leroy Van Camp III
> malacoda@lesbois.com
> owner-mystara-l@io.com
>
> "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle."
> MST3K
>
>
>
- --
"Women. The best thing since the Nova spell" [Lynard the fire elemaster]
knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au | glennb@ichr.uwa.edu.au
Home page: http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/
finger -l for pgp public key
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 12:21:32 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin
On Thu, 18 Sep 1997, Patrick wrote:
> The following is IMC, so maybe you don't even want to see it, but... IMC,
> there are a number of churches (mostly) peacefully competing and
> coexisting. The Church of Traladara is especially popular in the South and
> East, although the Church of Karameikos is gaining in popularity,
> particularly in Selenica. Otherwise, there is at least one temple of most
> immortals known to most inhambitants of the Known World within the cities
> of Darokin and Corunglain, with a high concentration of peace and
> trade-oriented immortals in the former and war and combat-related immortals
> in the latter. Akesoli, in addition to the pantheon you mentioned + a few
> others, is home to temples to many traditional Sindhi immortals. The
> worship of Bozdogan is illegal in the Republic, but there is a large temple
> of Loki in Akesoli (they don't know Bozdogan's real identity). In the
> smaller towns there should be a cleric for each 250 people or so, although
> many small villages will not have a temple, but rather just a small
> priest's house. Usually there will be clerics from different orders in
> towns large enough to support several clerics. They will generally engage
> in petty competition, but they share the same general goals of prosperity
> and protection for the villages. At any rate, Darokin should have a very
> ecclectic pantheon.
Hey Patrick, this sounds reasonable.
Here are my thoughts:
Church of Traldara
As you say, poular in the East
Church of Karameikos
Gaining popularity, mostly in selenica, but expanding.
Norse Pantheon
Some following by Norsemen immigrants
Athruagin Pantheon
Very few followers among Athruagin Clan settlers
Hin Heroes
Popular among the hin, who dont care all that much for other immortals
Humanoid Gods
Frowned upon. No temples, but worshipped among humanoids and Half-orcs
Thyatian Immortals
Those described in Dote. The ones from Thyatian colonies are not so widely
worshpped, but the ancient Thyatian ones are very popular.
Ethengar Pantheon
not much following
Spirit/Ancestor worship
Popular among Norsemen, Athruagin clansmen, Ethengarians and some
occultists, but all these are relatively small groups in Darokin, so its
not that widespread
Minrothad Philosofies
I dont really know much about those, but I dont think they should be all
that popular.
Al-kalim: Very popular in the East. Some following among minorities such
as half-Orcs
Elven Immortals
Popular among elves
Kagyar and 12 watchers
Popular among dwarves and craftsmen.
Gareth
One temple in Akesoli. New and gaining popularity.
Others?
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 12:28:42 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Dreaming v 0.5
On Thu, 18 Sep 1997 wjnowackl@MEM.po.com wrote:
>
>
> >Yep. I changed this slightly. The Malfera are originaly from the
> Dreaming,
> >but some have escaped into the Nightmare Dimension, gaining true
> >existance. If a Nightmare creature escapes by other means, Oneiros can
> >easily destroy them, but, not when they escape via this route. It could
> be
> >some plot by the inhabitants of the Nightmare dimension.
> Perhaps the Slumbering realms could be parrallel to the Ethereal in the
> multiverse, the Nightmare realms parrallel to the Ethereal in the
> Nightmare dimension, and the Heartlands an Outer plane coexisting in
> both dimensions, all connected by some _extremely_ large gates. This
> might explain why Nightmare creatures appear in people in the
> multiverses dreams and vice versa.
It is an interesting idea. I'll have to think about it. If that is the
case, Oneiros will get a real headache when he learns about it...
Haavard.
- ---
Haavard R. Faanes
Email: hoc@nvg.unit.no hoc@nuts.edu
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
"I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without
learning a bit about courage" -The X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 08:40:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
Seems like one of the recurring disagreements concerning my ideas is the
Thyatian conquest of Minrothad and Ierendi (the following year). I'll tell
you what I'll do. I'll post the details on the conquest of Minrothad. Order
of battle for both Thyatis and Minrothad. Order of events. And so on.
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 14:51:53 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin
Patrick wrote:
<<IMHO, there is no need to make an organized Church of Darokin comparable
to the Church of Karameikos, but what you ahve written seems to be pretty
good if you feel the need for such a church. Also, WotI and/or one or more
of the PWAs states that Khoronus has a following in Darokin. Perhaps he
should be another addition to the pantheon.>>
Mmmh.. could be. The way i envisioned the Church of Darokin is something
that could appeal to every darokinian citizen. This doesn't mean (i want to
remark it) that this is Darokin's state church, but only that it draws to
most of the population. IMC Darokin is very similar to USA, full of faiths
(both minor and major). Needless to say, you can find almost every Immortal
worshipped in the Known World in the Church District of Darokin City, even
the shadier ones (they're accepted provided they don't perform rituals that
go against the laws, as GAZ11 explains).
<<The following is IMC, so maybe you don't even want to see it, but... IMC,
there are a number of churches (mostly) peacefully competing and coexisting.
Usually there will be clerics from different orders in towns large enough to
support several clerics. They will generally engage in petty competition,
but they share the same general goals of prosperity and protection for the
villages. At any rate, Darokin should have a very ecclectic pantheon.>>
That's exactly the way i painted Darokin IMC: the most advanced, democratic
and liberal state in the KW (and that's why half of my PCs own a house in
Darokin! One of them has just bought an inn near the docks!). Basically i
think that every church has at least one "mission" in Darokin's territory,
but this doesn't mean that the Church of Darokin worships ALL of these
Immortals (it would not last much if it put side to side a cleric of Koryis
and one of Thor, for example). The Church of Darokin worships those
immortals that most embodies the "spirit of the nation", a spirit of
freedom, sacrifice, equality and endurance against the adversities.
Asterius, Ixion, Koryis, the Twelve Watchers are the ones i think fit this
role, but i would also add Valerias and Khoronus as well. Hope i've made
myself clear.
DM
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 14:54:34 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Church of Darokin
Haavard wrote:
> Asterius (Head): Patron of Trade
> Koryis: Patron of Peace and Prosperity
> Ixion: Patron of Law and Honesty
> The Twelve Watchers: Patrons of Crafts and Work
> Valerias: Patroness of Love and Charity
<<How does Koryis fit into this. Isn't that an Ochaelan Immortal. Not that
the patron of Peace and Prosperity wouln'd be popular in Darokin.>>
Well, basically since Darokin is a "land of leftovers" (no offense
darokinians on line: it's what you call yourselves after all) :), i thought
that the Church of Darokin should reflect this mishmash of cultures and
faiths, and so i picked up some faiths that would have fit well in Darokin
and organized them into a church, considering also the fact that there had
not to be rivalries between the associated Immortals.
Asterius was then an obvious choice: consider that even if he worked for
Rad, the Church of Darokin was founded before WotI. Also he didn't really
much "oppose" Ixion: he was more a sort of spy and a messenger/negotiator,
so i guessed his relationship with Ixion has not deteriorated that much.
Besides, in the entry for Asterius in WotI, it says that he's a close friend
of Ixion (and this is another strange thing about WotI: if he and Ixion were
friends, why did he side with Rad? And if Vanya and Rathanos were enemies,
why did they became allies to aid Rad?). I felt Ixion's faith had probably
been brought to Darokin by Alphatians, Ethengarians (as Tubak) and fleeing
Ispans who chose to settle in Darokin instead of going to the Savage Coast.
The Twelve Watchers were alredy known and worshipped in Darokin by all the
workers (much licke Asterius) and Koryis was probably one of the last
addition, brought by Alphatian (Koryis is an Alphatian deity in origin) or
Ochalean wandering priests who came to Darokin at the beginning of the X
century. If we want to add Valerias and Khoronus, this is not difficult to
do, since she is the worldwide Patroness of Love and he the Patron of Wisdom
and Fair Rulership. So they could have been already worshipped in Darokin
like Asterius was. All in all, it seems this is a good solution.
<<some Q's on the top of my head..
Would you say the CoD is a powerful organization? Is it Hierarchic? Who is
the head? What kinda clothes do their priests wear? Is it an old
organization? Also I'd like to hear some concepts of the faith. World view,
afterlife, meaning of life, metaphysics and stuff.>>
Wow, how many questions! Let's try to answer one question at the time:
1. Church of Darokin is a young church much like that of Karameikos. I
suppose it dates back to the X century, probably AC 930, and mainly for two
reasons.
First of all, the only detailed Patriarch of the Church is Grindolf the
White (GAZ5) who is also Ambassador of Darokin in Alfheim. His age is not
revealed, but since he's a 12th level cleric, an Ambassador and a Patriarch,
i suppose he should be fairly experienced of the ways of the world, so i
give him 50 years in AC 1000. Supposing he's become a cleric at the age of
16 and a diplomat at the age of 20, this gives him almost 30 years to train
and become Ambassador and Patriarch: a reasonable amount of time IMO. This
means the Church cannot have been founded after AC 966.
Also, since Ispans (who brought Ixion to Darokin as i've speculated) fled
Thyatis around AC 900, the Church cannot be older than AC 900. I've chosen
AC 930 because it seems halfway between the two borders.
2. Church of Darokin is not the most powerful church of the KW, nor it is
that much widespread (aside from Darokin itself), mainly because it is a
church founded FOR the Darokinians. It is surely the most important in
Darokin, however.
3. The Head of the Church's Pantheon is Asterius, and the Ring of Darokin is
opened to every Immortal who has a particular love for that country (the
Twelve Watchers are only Initiate but they/he is a distinguished member as
his other Hierarch collegues).
4. The High Patriarch of the Church is an old wizened man in his eighties
named Peter Simon, who happens to be also the founder of the Church. He is a
cleric of Asterius who felt the need to unify the faiths of his beloved land
to make the citizens feel more akin and closer to each other and to destroy
any possible cultural and ethnic barrier still present in Darokin. He
founded the Church at the age of 30 and has subsequently assumed many
potions of Longevity in his youth to fight against the passing of time only
for one reason: to accomplish his dream. After the Church of Darokin has
affirmed itself as the most prominent in Darokin, he stopped drinking
potions and continued to age normally. He is now 83 (real age 115) and has
already chosen his successor, a promising cleric of the Twelve Watchers in
his thirties. The current patriarch will surely die before AC 1020.
4. The common vestment of the cleric of the Church is a besant tunic with a
golden circle on the upper torso. Each cleric uses the holy symbol of its deity.
5. About the beliefs of the faith, well, i haven't thought about them in
detail, but basically the church exists to help darokinians (or anyone else)
live together in spite of the differences existing between them. The church
teaches to tolerate others, to work for the community and the welfare of the
state and to behave honestly, cause only the honest and trustworthy people
will be rewarded both in this life and in the afterlife. The Church also
operates many hostels for the beggars and the poor people unable to find a
work (few in Darokin, so it's an easy job).
Well, that's all for now. Hope i have been clear and you will react positively.
DM
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V2 #144
*****************************
From: owner-mystara-digest@ (mystara-digest)
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #145
Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
Sender: owner-mystara-digest@
Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@
Precedence: bulk
mystara-digest Friday, September 19 1997 Volume 02 : Number 145
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 14:56:30 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Nightmare Lands and the Dreaming
Haavard wrote:
>DM wrote:
> Did you read the Nightmare Lands (Ravenloft supplement)? It seems so :)
> Anyway, that accessory put the Nightmare Lands in the Border Ethereal and
> gave a good explanation about the nature of Dreamscapes: do you think it's
> still valid with your own view?
<<I dont have it. I did however read about it in Dragon and it is part of my
inspiration. Maybe you could give me some information on this. It could be
changed to fit it, if those ideas are good.>>
Believe me: not only Nightmare Lands is one of the best Ravenloft
supplements i've ever read, it is also the most "detached" from the
Ravenloft campaign. This means that you can use it in your own (in Mystara)
without any difficulty. It also features new monsters, new powers (Dream
Powers), the conversion rules for dream-selves of characters, a nice very
detailed adventure to get familiar with the rules and setting and a whole
rogues gallery of mysterious and eerie figures known as the Nightmare Court.
If you have some money spared, run to the first shop and BUY IT! It's worth
the price if you like to meddle with the dreams of your PCs!
OK, advertising mode off ;)
<<In this version the Dreaming World is an outer plane, but I think it would
be better to have it as a plane paralell to the ethereal. Also, as a friend
of mine pointed out, Oneiros being an immortal with the Dreaming as his
homeplane would make him far too powerful, since he'd get so much influence
over peoples souls..
However, hey may be kind of a janitor, fixing stuff and not really being the
owner of the plane.>>
This doesn't solve the problem, however: if it is an Outer Plane, someone
will have to own it, don't you think? Besides, i think Oneiros is a nice
figure to guard the dreams of our characters (i would have chosen Morpheus,
but it happens to be allied with the baddies, so..). As for making it a
Plane parallel to Ethereal, well, this way you would create an entire NEW
plane in the Inner Planes! What a metaphysic discovery it would be! I think
i'd better re-read that description about the Nightmare lands location in
the Prime before answering this.. but just to give you my first impression,
i think it's appropriate for the Dreamlands to be either another Dimension
or a (Outer) Plane.
<<Normal dreamers cannot chose to leave their dreamscape, but it sometimes
happens anyway. Dream Mages and other specifically trained can do so by
making an int check. (or you could introduce a creming skill allowing a
skill check to enter the heartlands..)>>
In the Nightmare Lands, the Dreamscapes lies in the coastal perimeter (the
Lands are an island) called the Ring of Dreams IIRC. If you venture inside
the isle, you can find the Forest of Everchange, home of Morpheus and the
Abber Nomads (true inhabitants of the Dreamlands!), or stumble in the city
of Nod, where the rest of the Nightmare Court resides. Normally, only
somebody with a certain power could escape a dreamscape and enter physically
the Nightmare Lands, but it is also possible for some unlucky soul to be
transported there from the Mists of Ravenloft (in this case you would
require a special spell to go there, i surmise)
<<The Malfera are originaly from the Dreaming, but some have escaped into
the Nightmare Dimension, gaining true existance. If a Nightmare creature
escapes by other means, Oneiros can easily destroy them, but, not when they
escape via this route.>>
What do you mean with "gain true existance"? In the Nightmare Lands,
everything is real, even the creatures of the dreams. Are you implying that
the Dreamlands are a plane inhabited by fictional characters (beings)
created and mantained by Oneiros to suite the desires of the dreamers?
Intersting idea, though.. And does this mean that if these creatures try to
escape to other realities, he can destroy them or they simply vanish from
existence when they enter that reality (much like the holograms of Star
Trek: Next Generation's Holodeck -remember that episode with Moriarty and
the false Enterprise?)? Still, a fascinating scenario.
<<Dreamers are the souls of sleeping people. They seem very confused, so
communicating with them is hard.>>
In this scenario, how would you use a Potion of Dreams then? Which could be
its potential for let's say Dream Mages?
> Again, talking about Ravenloft NL, how do you insert the Nightmare Court in
> your project (if u know about it) and which ties does it have to Oneiros?
<<As mentioned I dont have that supplement, but If possible I'd loike to
incorporate it. I'd say Oneiros is the true ruler. The Nightmare court may
believe theyt have some power, but thats probably just because Oneiros lets
them.>>
Basing myself on what i read in NL boxed set, i would say that there is
nobody more powerful than the Nigthmare Court (and the Nigthmare Man who
rules it), which is somewhat a mirror of Ravenloft's Dark Powers. The
Nightmare Court can extend its tentacles not only to Ravenloft dreamers, but
to dreamers of every reality and plane, because (as it's hinted in the box)
the NL touches (nearly) every reality (that's why i think it should be a
dimension). You're saying here that Oneiros is the ruler of the Dreaming,
but i would object to this fact. This is my theory (sort of a legend):
How Nightmares Were Created
Oneiros once was the Ruler of the Heartlands and of the Slumbering Lands,
while the Nightmare Lands didn't exist. But one fateful day the worst thing
happened to him: he fell asleep and dreamt. And in his dreaming he generated
a nightmare. When he awoke, he discovered he had created the Nightmare Lands
and that he had also created Nightmares that polluted the dreams of every
sleeping creature. He tried to gain control of this land and to destroy it,
but he found out he could not, for the lord of the NL was his dream-self
that had come to life: the Nightmare Man. He then started fighting a battle
he could not won, a battle against himself.
The Dreamwar raged for many centuries (millennia?) and finally came to an
end when the Nightmare Lands vanished from the Dreaming... almost. They
became surrounded by a strange opaque mist, and from then on, nothing ever
came out of that land.. but many were drawn into. The Nightmare Man had been
noticed by the Dark Powers and trapped halfway between Ravenloft and the
Dreaming, still able to influence the sleeping creatures but unable to enter
again the Dreaming. Only the dream-selves of the sleepers can strangely come
back and forth from the two lands, but given the fact that none of the
Nightmare Court memebers can dream and that Oneiros doesn't want to risk
another rift of his realm, they cannot interact anymore.
I hope i have not annoyed you too much. Let me know what you think about it, OK?
DM
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:01:08 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
Alex wrote:
<<Increase of revenue will be done carefully. Eusebius knows that over
taxing the people could bring about his removal. For the most part he
centers his attentions on those that can afford to pay more, the wealthy.
This will gain support from the poor.>>
i'd say he'd better watch his back from the scorned wealthy senators and
landlords as well as from the unsatisfied commoners. You see, surely a
popular insurrection would overthrow him, but a carefully planned
assassination attempt would do perfectly well, too. And if he upsets the
wealthy people by assessing other taxes ONLY onto them, he will loose
support of the Senate, or worse he will gain ENEMIES in the Senate that will
use their fortunes to bring his downfall. Ancient Roman history is a perfect
example of what i'm trying to explain you. So you see, if he wants to assess
more taxes without fear of reprisals he will have to do it very carefully,
and this means he must wait for at least a decade before seeing the results
of his economic maneuvers (and this is why your plan is not acceptable AT
THE MOMENT, in AC 1015 -because that's what you proposed at first, that this
whole scenario be staged in AC 1015, remember your first post).
<<I also remind you that NACE and Karameikos expect some sort of agression
from Thyatis. NACE is experiencing growing pains and has more domestic
concerns to address.>>
Pardon? IIRC Karameikos and NACE are now on friendly terms with Thyatis
(remember who helped Thicol overcome the famine in Thyatis City? Duke
Stephan!). Also, which internal problems are you referring to regarding
NACE? Esterhold is a hotbed, but nothing that cannot be dealt with,
especially now that Favian Vern is its Governor. So what are you talking about?
And talking about Aegos, Thyatis and Minrothad are allied in that project:
i don't see why Eusebius would want to break such an advantageous
relationship with Minrothad, really.
<<Thyatis should think about rebuilding its economy and national morale first.
Conquest is a quick way to do this. Just look into RW history. Nazi Germany
used war to create jobs and draw resources. Also, looking at RW WW2 history,
you will see Germany's use of warfare to rebuild its own economy. Also, at
first Germany took territory in small amounts, almost daring England and
France to intervene. Perhaps the combined conquests of both Minrothad and
Ierendi will be the Poland that draws the other nations into conflict (not
neccessarily war) against Thyatis.>>
I am sorry, but you're making a blunder here. The scenarios you're trying to
compare are almost totally different. First of all, it's true that Germany
succeeded in reducing unemployment rate at 4% during Hitler's premiership
(and it dropped to 0% when the war started) and it's also true that Hitler
founded Germany's rebirth on the war industry, almost to the point that he
was OBLIGED to start WW2 if he didn't want to declare bankruptcy, BUT:
1. Germany's funds came from the heavy industry and the chemical industry
for the most, two things that doesn't exist in the KW;
2. Germany's industry was backed up by an enormous amount of raw materials
that the Reich could extract from the occupied territories (namely Hungary,
Cecoslovakia and the Alsace-Loir region): your comparison implies that
Minrothad and Ierendi have these resources, which is far from true;
3. Germany came from the Weimar Republic when Hitler rose to power, and this
is not the case of Thyatis. During the Weimar Republic Germany had to pay
its war debts for WW1 and its economy dumped: this made the Germans hate the
concept of Republic, Democracy and government of the people, and so they
started dreaming about the brave resourceful LEADER that would have taken
Germany back to its glory days.. and this is when Hitler came out. We are
talking here of a period of 15 years (from the end of WW1 to Hitler's first
year as Chancellor in 1933) where the Germans had to face many adversities
that finally pushed them to favour Hitler's rise to power. In our case,
Thyatis has been out of the war for only 5 years and it's not as hopeless as
Germany was. The thyatian citizens surely don't feel that need for revenge
or return to glory as the Germans did, and they wouldn't back up another war
so soon after what happened just five years before;
4. Hitler could lead Germany to war ONLY because the great landlords
(Junkers), the army, the great financiers and businessmen supported his
plans. If Eusebius doesn't get the support of those who have the power in
Thyatis (landlords, generals and senators), he will never start a war..
which is what he gets if he overtaxes the richmen;
5. Finally, the way Hitler used to incorporate the adjacent nations into his
own Reich is far different from the one you are suggesting for Thyatis to do
with Minrothad and Ierendi. Hitler succeeded in his Anschluss of Alsace-Loir
region, Austria, Hungary, Bohemia (and then Cechoslovakia) because: A) there
was already a german minority living in those countries who (pushed by the
local Nazi party) asked for the permission to be annexed to Germany's
territory; and B) Great Britain's Prime Minister Chamberlain (and France
too) wanted to play the German card against the bolscevic threat (namely
Stalin's USSR). England and France allied them with the Third Reich because
of Hitler's open policy of anti-bolscevism and anti-comunism: they hoped
Germany could be used as a sanitary belt to check the advancing Communism,
and so let him add lands to the Reich only to reinforce it against USSR;
never they imagined that Hitler and Stalin could sign a pact of
non-belligerancy. And when they found out, it was too late.. In our case,
why should the NACE and WDL let Thyatis conquer Minrothad and Ierendi? As
you see, the paragon doesn't fit very well.
<<I also stress that Minrothad and Ierendi are possible keys to the control
of the Sea of Dread. And IIRC Minrothad has been criticized by Thyatis for
being so nuetral in the past. Their lack of involvement might lessen the
need for military intervention and aid.>>
Mmhh.. when did Thyatis criticize Minrothad? And if so, who cares? I don't
think it's a good reason to start a war. Also, even though Minrothad has
remained neutral during the last conflict, this is not a reason the other
powers would let Thyatis conquer it: even a blind man can recognize it
strategic importance. Your logic doesn't seem so foolproof here.
<<Most nations have or are on good diplomatic terms with Thyatis. On the
other hand Minrothad has distanced itself in past conflicts and sold
materials to both sides.>>
You again underestimates Minrothad diplomacy. Being a nation of merchants,
they're used at dealing with other nations, and GAZ9 tells us that Minrothad
is on good terms with many nations too. Only Darokin surpasses its diplomats
in wits and manners.
<< Karameikos fears that Thyatis will one day try to retake the kingdom, yet
they provided grain during the Thyatian famine.>>
What? Where do you get this feeling from? Karameikos has never been so safe
IMO: it's a Kingdom, it has diplomatic ties and links to every major nation
in the world, it has a good economy and it has military arrangement with his
neighbours that ensures its safety. Maybe 20 years ago it was more thyatian
than karameikan, but not now. I have the impression you're basing your
reasoning more on your feelings than on factual data..
<< There may be some protests and saber rattling, but I feel few nations
want war for Minrothad. Now throw in Ierendi and things may change. But by
then, it will be too late for the two island nations.>>
What does it mean? Following your reasoning, if a nation has been out of the
war and has traded with many different countries, then it's not likely other
countries will come into its aid. But Ierendi has done the same thing: so
why should it inspire more friendship to other nations? Because it's a
paradise for holiday makers and travelers?? Darokin did the same, but many
countries helped it during the Master invasion because they realized its
strategic importance: the same thing applies for Minrothad AND Ierendi.
<<Minrothad's Navy is not all that big and powerful (PWA 1 and 2).>>
I've checked thru it, and i'm sorry but the PWA gives you not the real
strength of Minrothad. I know this may seem illogic for me to contradict a
"canonic source" such as PWA, but i also own GAZ9, and this contains a big
section that praises the powers and resources of the Merchant Princes. GAZ9
says that a good number of captains in Minrothad is a Merchant Prince, but
there's no mention of Wizards leading a ship in PWA: this is a HUGE
inconsistency that is obviously misleading you. And the same applies for
Ierendi: the Royal Navy and the Wizards of Honor Island are not taken into
consideration. If they were, the BR would be much higher as well as the
number of ships if PWA considered also Minrothad privateers.
<<I also made mention of partially conquered. Portions of Minrothad do fall
to the Thyatians. However, Thyatian resources are strained in these sucesses.
Minrothad feels that it has lost and sues for peace. It does manage to get
good concessions as to rule. In short, it is a Thyatian kingdom but will be
overseen by Thyatian and Thyatian supporting officials (ex. Vichy France
WW2). Everyday life will remain the same on Minrothad. The various Guilds
support this as it will allow them to return to their mercantile businesses
with only paying a percentage to the Thyatians. To them, war would be bad
for their business.>>
Mmh, yes, this is a logic and good scenario. Unfortunately as i'm trying to
show you, Thyatis lacks the basis to wage a war against Minrothad AT THE
MOMENT (and i wouldn't say that thyatis would be able to conquer Minrothad
so easily): remember the key word is AT THE MOMENT...
DM
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:03:46 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Almanac ideas: reply (long)
Alex wrote:
<< Thyatis- Eusebius discovers his fathers personal diaries (many suprises).
Makes moves to repair its economy, imperial pride, and international
standing by conquest.
Warfare has often been a means to rebuild a nations economy. Not only can it
be used to eliminate rival nations in areas such as trade, it also offers
added income (tribute) and resources.>>
Well, as the darokinians say: "It's better to save a nation than to destroy
it: after all, dead men can't buy anything". So, if i agree that conquest
brings more tributes and gold, if you conquer and/or destroy the economy of
one of the richest nations and economic partners you (as a nation) had (i.e.
Minrothad), then it's more the loss than the gain inthe long run.
<<As for stability I have to disagree. The SE are quarreling within their
own ranks. Ethengar is knocking on Glantri's door. The Heldannic Knights
have lost the favor of Vanya. Ylaruam is just ending a power struggle. Then
there is Alphatia and NACE. An Empire split into two worlds (HW and RW) is
not exactlty stable.>>
You see, that's the point: we alredy have too many nations screwing up
things, we don't need to turn the KW into a war field by adding an empire to
the list. As for the stability of NACE and Alphatia, do you also think that
the Spanish or French or English Colonial Empires were unstable (after all
they controlled territories in other continents)? Sorry, i don't think NACE
and Alphatia are unstable because they are geographically divided..
<< Trouble in the Hinterlands with renegade Clans and their Emerond allies.
As Thyatian Cohorts press deeper into the unoccuppied Clan territories, the
Emerond would certainly begin to feel a bit anxious. If the Clans are
conquered then surely it will not be long before Emerond is discovered and
subsequently assaulted. Better for the Emerond to suppliment the Clans with
weapons in an attempt to bog down the Thyatians.>>
Ah, well, you see, it all depends the way you consider Emerond. I've always
seen Emerondians as a pacifist race who loves and lives in symbiosis with
nature (i've done a brief description of the Emerondian race: if i have time
to translate it i'll post it). I don't see them giving weapons to the
hinterlanders: and what kind of weapons should they give 'em? Thorns?
Branches? Emerondians are surely able to defend themselves, but i think it
will be a long time before they're forced to do it (before Thyatis discovers
them, that is).
<<Flying City of Serrainne within reach of Thyatis' legions. Serraine comes
with Thyatian reach as Thyatis builds its own skyships and expands Retebius
Air Fleet. Also, Serraine experiences some technical difficulties and must
land to make repairs (ends up being a complete overhaul). Originally the
gnomes set a course for Aeria but are forced to land in a shallow area in
the New Alphatian Sea.
Yes and no. I figured that like present day Ionace, there would be other
lands that were still above water or at least fairly shallow. The Grey
Mountains and Aasla Spur Mountains). The gnomes, given adequate time, would
erect legs to the underdecking of the city to support its landing. Since the
City is forced to land prematurely, such a landing would be done in a
shallow area. The legs keeping the Flying Island above the waves.>>
I see, now it's much better ;)
<<The Hook would be rumors of Serraine having to land to make repairs.
Thyatian forces would attempt to seize the opportunity to take Serraine. And
once again, I never said they would take Serraine. I said that the Flying
City was within reach. Thyatis's inability to take Serraine is due to the
hastiness of assembling the striking force, bad logistics, and the more than
capable defenses of Serraine. Plus, the Alphatians offer a hand of
assistance. It is their sea and they would take much offense at any sizable
Thyatian force in the area. Actually, their aiding the gnomes is the first
open and official act of resisting the Thyatian agression.>>
Now i like it much more (i have to admit i hated the thought of Serraine
captured). Still i don't think the Thyatians should be painted as so much
aggressive..
<<Glantri- Internal split among House Sylaire and its allies. Etienne reappears
officially. The internal strife in House Sylaire is from a nasty
confrontation between Malachie and Dame Genevieve de Sephora. The affair
splits Averoigne as
members choose sides. Matter is made worse as Etienne announces his
fondness for Sephora.
Actually the whole thing is a temporary disagreement. This is Glantri. When
Malachie kills off Genevieve Etienne brings her back to life with a Wish
spell. The whole matter is simply a flare in tempers. With Etienne as
moderator, the matter is quickly resolved.>>
Didn't you say that "Matter is made worse as Etienne announces his fondness
for Sephora."? How can the matter be quickly solved then after Malachie has
killed Rad's fiancée and she has been brought back to life? Also remember
that she is hunting the White Wolf for ages, she's obsessed with him: don't
think she will let it go.. No good.
<<BTW, Innocenti is not the only rougue mage to get his. Bargle gets knocked
off. His henchmen turn on him during the Day of Dread (unable to use his
magic) and kill him for the reward money.>>
What?? The halfling didn't do it, the Alphatians didn't do it, and some
petty servants are able to kill the Infamous? No way: you cannot eliminate
Bargle in this absurdly charmless way. He surely has a planar hideout where
he goes to avoid the Day of Dread.
<<Rivalry between Brannart and Morphail intesnifies.
The Morphail/Brannart deal is something I have played with a bit. Brannart
begins summoning undead minions to throw up against Morphail. Morphail
destroys them as they enter his domain. However, each new series of
creatures is becoming harder to handle. Still, Morphail does not retaliate.
Morphail would destroy the undead minions to show Brannart how powerful he
is. Liches are traditionally the LORDS of the undead.>>
So you see: if Morphail is able to control the undead instead of merely
destroying them, he will show Brannart that he is even more powerful than a
lich! HE is the TRUE LORD of undead! Bwuaaaahhh ah aha!
<<Anyone can be a vamp. It takes but a nibble.>>
Sure, tell it to Strahd von Zarovich.. Anyone can be a vamp, not every vamp
is a 28th level wizard and Master of necromancy!
<<The Belcadiz will probably have troubles of their own, especially if the
Erewan were to make some agreement with the Alfheim to join them in Wendar
and Karameikos. And since Wendar is likely to join the Ethengar due to the
hostilities between Glantri and the Erewan...>>
< Nope, this is not the case as i've already said in a previous post. Wendar
has at the moment its own internal problems, which will soon escalate in
1016 AC to unimaginable proportions. It's absolutely impossible that Wendar
will meddle in the Ethengar-Glantri war, and more unlikely that it will
welcome other elven refugees (the reasons will be explained in next
Alamanac, so be patient and trust my words).>
Given current status, you are correct. But who is to say what Wendar will do
in a year or so. Mainly I was thinking about the Glantri/Ethengar conflict
spilling over into Wendar and pulling them in. The whole Erewan issue would
just be an added catalyst.>>
No, i need reiterate: the Wendar elves are having a hard time and they
couldn't care less about the Erewan. There is NO way that Wendar will be
drawn in another war when it almost has a civil one to face (please, don't
make me tell you anything more, please! ;)). And besides, why should
Glantrians or Ethengarians cross the mountains to go to Wendar??
<<Minrothad- Assaulted and partially conquered by the Thyatians.
The conquest of Minrothad is the first stage of the Thyatian war plan.
Minrothad is a trade rival. It also is positioned to where Thyatis almost
has to conquer it. A small nation with sizeable income, it would be an
easy and profitable conquest.>>
< Ahahahaha!! Are you talking seriously? Minrothad an easy conquest? Have
you ever read GAZ9? Minrothad has a powerful fleet that rivals that of
Ierendi, and thanks to its Merchant Princes Minrothad has complete control
of the sea lanes, not only from the economical point of view. Trust me when
i tell you it's not feasible for Thyatis (see the points at the beginning
of the letter). Also, Minrothad has ambassadors everywhere and ties with
every major nation it trades with: do you really think nobody will say
anything if Thyatis invades Minrothad (especially NACE)? Besides, i think
that looking at the past history it's likely Minrothad would ally with
Ierendi to stand against Thyatis (Ierendi is not dumb and will realize that
Minrothad is only the first step in a Thyatian war plan to conquer the Sea
of Dread lanes), and Thyatis CANNOT overcome Minrothad and Ierendi's
combined forces, not in AC 1015 that is.>
The "pirate" attacks are not done by Minrothad privateers. They are Thyatian
and ironically enough Ierendi (mercenaries).>>
I understood perfectly: maybe i didn't make myself clear. What i wanted to
say is that Minrothad will soon discover that Thyatian and Ierendian rogues
are at work thanks to its privateers and will send its navy AND its
privateers (bucaneers, call it whaterver u like) to dispatch the problem,
without calling in Thyatis. They have the power and tactics to do it, at
least against a group of mercenary pirates, you will allow this to me, ok? ;)
<<First, you are going by Minrothad military strength as told by Gaz (AC1000).
I am going by PWA strengths which are lower.>>
I have already explained you that this is surely a typo or a mistake.
Minrothad (you have said it yourself) has not engaged in any war in the last
15 years, so i don't see why it should have its naval strength reduced? Do
you agree with me that there's something unclear here?
DM
dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/3090
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 06:26:13 PDT
From: "Davide Bucci" <davidebucci@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A list survey
Well... my stats/interests:
Name: Davide Bucci
E-Mail: davidebucci@hotmail.com
From: Solarolo,Italy
Interests: playing OD&D
Other Interests: other RPGs (Call of Cthulhu,Cyberpunk 2020), reading
sci-fi/fantasy/horror, computer games/programming/emulation
Age:17 (10/24/79)
Profession: High school student
Website: none (or better... by this time it isn't in a presentable
shape)
Marital Status: single
Started Playing RPGs: Summer 1993
First Played D&D: 1993 (DMed for about a year and then come back to
player)
Campaign Playing: OD&D in a all over the known world campaign
Current Projects: a little example of robot for my school final exam
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 11:00:37 -0400
From: Jay Herrington <John7999@frontiernet.net>
Subject: [Mystara] Ideas
- --------------F08D6AAF8EF030C8BC722E50
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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I have been thinking about a couple of things.
1. Has anyone working on the almanacs thought about including an
updated version of the OD&D War Machine stats. Either creating a new
one to fit with the AD&D rules or just updating the old stats given in
the first two PWAs.
2. Does the idea of wizards losing a point of constitution every
time they cast a permanency spell not seem to fit in with the Mystara
setting. It seems that it would take dozens of permanency spells to
create a flying skyship. Not to mention that Eriadna wants a new fleet
built to replace the old one.
I came up with two ways around this.
1. In Glantri wizards using using the radiance can cast
permanency spells without losing constitution points. They can use
radiance energy at the rate of one point per spell they want to make
permanent. They simply cast summon radiance then cast the Permanency
spell.
2. In Alphatia they have devised a permanency spell that only
drains constitution points temporarily, or maybe not at all. I don't
know how to explain their many huge magic items.
If anyone has any ideas or cares to comment I would be happy to hear
any response.
- --------------F08D6AAF8EF030C8BC722E50
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML>
<FONT SIZE=-1>I have been thinking about a couple of things.</FONT><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT>
<P><FONT SIZE=-1> 1. Has anyone working on the
almanacs thought about including an updated version of the OD&D War
Machine stats. Either creating a new one to fit with the AD&D
rules or just updating the old stats given in the first two PWAs.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1> 2. Does the idea of wizards
losing a point of constitution every time they cast a permanency spell
not seem to fit in with the Mystara setting. It seems that it would
take dozens of permanency spells to create a flying skyship. Not
to mention that Eriadna wants a new fleet built to replace the old one. </FONT><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT>
<P><FONT SIZE=-1>I came up with two ways around this.</FONT><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT>
<P><FONT SIZE=-1> 1. In Glantri wizards using
using the radiance can cast permanency spells without losing constitution
points. They can use radiance energy at the rate of one point per
spell they want to make permanent. They simply cast summon radiance
then cast the Permanency spell.</FONT><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT>
<P><FONT SIZE=-1> 2. In Alphatia they have devised
a permanency spell that only drains constitution points temporarily, or
maybe not at all. I don't know how to explain their many huge magic
items.</FONT><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT>
<P><FONT SIZE=-1> If anyone has any ideas or cares to
comment I would be happy to hear any response.</FONT></HTML>
- --------------F08D6AAF8EF030C8BC722E50--
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:14:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
Fabrizio Paoli pontificated:
>
> Yes, there'll be a civil war, but with several surprises...
> Anyway Darokin won't be involved in this civil war.
This might be a bit late, but I hope the new almanac will not
have too many suprises. I think the almanac is most useful if
it follow the logical progression of timeline of Mystara. If
too many twists are throw in there, it might make it difficult
for people who want their campaign to follow the timeline.
Just a thought.
John Yu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 14:00:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Shin Chyang Yu <scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ideas
Jay Herrington pontificated:
>
> 2. In Alphatia they have devised a permanency spell that only
> drains constitution points temporarily, or maybe not at all. I don't
> know how to explain their many huge magic items.
Perhaps there could be some cleric spell that restore Con lost due
to spell casting? Similar to the restore level from energy drain?
John Yu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 09:52:44 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ideas
On Fri, 19 Sep 1997, Jay Herrington wrote:
> 1. Has anyone working on the almanacs thought about including an
> updated version of the OD&D War Machine stats. Either creating a new
> one to fit with the AD&D rules or just updating the old stats given in
> the first two PWAs.
Yes, yes, yes. Absolutely. (Thinking about it, that is). Not quite sure
how to go about it, though... Any ideas would be most appreciated.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:58:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Magesmiley@aol.com
Subject: Re: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline and other stuff)
>>I personally prefer Psionicists being
>>treated as spellcasters, even if that violates that sentence in the book.
>>Thats my personal opinion anyway. It is like interpreting Law
I did state in an earlier post that there was nothing to prevent you from
treating psionics like spellcasting, and therefore allow them Alphatian
nobility. The reason I oppose doing this is that it takes something away
from both psionics and Alphatian nobility... their uniqueness, or
specialness. If you treat psionics just like they are magic it takes a lot
away from them. Maybe its just in the feel that it gives psionics in the
campaign, but it makes them seem less special.
As far as interpreting, actually this is what feels right based on my views
of psionics... they aren't magic and as such a psionicist shouldn't be
allowed to be a noble in Alphatia, which is after all built on magic.
>>Couldn't the psionicists say that the master who teaches them is
>>"teaching them a spell"? Also, the psionicists could say that it
>>dosen't show up with a detect magic spell because it is a previously
>>unknown type of magic?
As I said before, if a psionicist wanted to try to pull something like this
I'd let them try it even in my campaign, just that if they got caught
impersonating a "real" spellcaster they also would have to deal with the
consequences.
The last reason to oppose psionicists as nobles is that any wizard or
cleric with any semblance of sanity isn't going to want to share their
"privileges" with any more people than they have to, and I don't think that
they would expand the classification of someone being a spellcaster if they
didn't have to... after all it would mean some other class of people might be
able to wrest power away from them.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:12:02 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin
DM once wrote
>
>> Asterius (Head): Patron of Trade
>> Koryis: Patron of Peace and Prosperity
>> Ixion: Patron of Law and Honesty
>> The Twelve Watchers: Patrons of Crafts and Work
>> Valerias: Patroness of Love and Charity
According to the PWA the following Immortals are worshiped in Darokin:
Asterius, Ixion, Khoronus, Koryis, Odin, The Twelve Watchers, Valerias,
Zirchev.
I can see why they worship Khoronus, for merchants "time=gold" :)
- --------------
Fabrizio Paoli
brizio@lunet.it
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
- --------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 17:28:03 -0400
From: wjnowackl@MEM.po.com
Subject: [Mystara] Ideas
- ------------------------- Begin Original -------------------------
- ------------------------- End Original -------------------------
Could somebody repost the original post?
"Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:30:42 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
At 11.14 16/09/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Fabrizio Paoli pontificated:
>>
>> Yes, there'll be a civil war, but with several surprises...
>> Anyway Darokin won't be involved in this civil war.
>
>This might be a bit late, but I hope the new almanac will not
>have too many suprises. I think the almanac is most useful if
>it follow the logical progression of timeline of Mystara. If
>too many twists are throw in there, it might make it difficult
>for people who want their campaign to follow the timeline.
>Just a thought.
Don't worry. No major twists or catastrophic events... at least on my part.
There won't be things like "Alphatia sinks in the ocean" :)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:23:59 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ideas
At 11.00 19/09/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I have been thinking about a couple of things.
>
> 1. Has anyone working on the almanacs thought about including an
updated version
>of the OD&D War Machine stats. Either creating a new one to fit with the
AD&D rules or >just updating the old stats given in the first two PWAs.
Yes, we thought about this, but we have 2 major problems:
a) Time: the almanac should be ready for December, but I don't know if
we'll be able to put together War Machine stats before the deadline.
b) Rules: we would like to make a rules-free almanac. Since here there're
people that both play OD&D and AD&D we don't want to choose one system or
the other. This means that you wan't find NPC stats, but this also means
that we'll have to find a nice way to present armies without using the War
Machine....
Anyway a) is certainly the main problem.
- --------------
Fabrizio Paoli
brizio@lunet.it
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
- --------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:08:04 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Almanac ideas: reply (long)
Alex wrote:
>
><<The Hook would be rumors of Serraine having to land to make repairs.
>Thyatian forces would attempt to seize the opportunity to take Serraine. And
>once again, I never said they would take Serraine. I said that the Flying
>City was within reach. Thyatis's inability to take Serraine is due to the
>hastiness of assembling the striking force, bad logistics, and the more than
>capable defenses of Serraine. Plus, the Alphatians offer a hand of
>assistance. It is their sea and they would take much offense at any sizable
>Thyatian force in the area. Actually, their aiding the gnomes is the first
>open and official act of resisting the Thyatian agression.>>
IIRC Serrain already had a warning from Thyatians some years ago (in a PWA).
Gnomes are not stupid. Why should they cross again Thyatian sky, when
there's so much free room in Mystara?
They already avoid Glnatri (see PC2), it won't be hard for them to stay
away from Thyatis too.
Just my opinion.
- --------------
Fabrizio Paoli
brizio@lunet.it
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
- --------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:17:09 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline and other stuff)
On Fri, 19 Sep 1997 Magesmiley@aol.com so eloquently put:
<debate on psionics snipped>
I suppose we can agree upon the fact that we disagree :)
> The last reason to oppose psionicists as nobles is that any wizard or
> cleric with any semblance of sanity isn't going to want to share their
> "privileges" with any more people than they have to, and I don't think that
> they would expand the classification of someone being a spellcaster if they
> didn't have to... after all it would mean some other class of people might be
> able to wrest power away from them.
Yes. This would depend greatly upon wether you treat psionics as a new
science or whether its been around for ages. If the former is true, then
I'd have to agree. However if the Alphatians have known about psionics
from before the arrival, matters would probably be different. At least the
Psionicists would have had their chance of proving themselves worthy of
nobility.
Hâvard.
- -------
Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves
Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves,
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V2 #145
*****************************
From: owner-mystara-digest@ (mystara-digest)
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #146
Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
Sender: owner-mystara-digest@
Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@
Precedence: bulk
mystara-digest Saturday, September 20 1997 Volume 02 : Number 146
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 18:05:50 -0400
From: esp109@psu.edu (Eduardo Polanco)
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ideas
> 2. Does the idea of wizards losing a point of constitution every
>time they cast a permanency spell not seem to fit in with the Mystara
>setting. It seems that it would take dozens of permanency spells to
>create a flying skyship. Not to mention that Eriadna wants a new fleet
>built to replace the old one.
I thought you lost a point of constitution only if you tried to cast
permanency on a spell that was cast on yourself (e.g. casting protection
from normal missiles on yourself and making it permanent). Even if these
aren't the official rules, that's how my gaming group plays.
Ed Polanco
esp109@psu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:14:13 -0400
From: Aron Reif <areif@erols.com>
Subject: RE: [Mystara] Ideas
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> 2. Does the idea of wizards losing a point of constitution every
>time they cast a permanency spell not seem to fit in with the Mystara
>setting. It seems that it would take dozens of permanency spells to
>create a flying skyship. Not to mention that Eriadna wants a new fleet
>built to replace the old one.
I figured out a loophole to get around this:
First the wizard finds a prisoner or slave that he doesn't mind killing. =
Then he casts Magic Jar and possesses the slave's body. He then =
cannibalizes the slave's Constitution by casting all the permanancy =
spells he wants without harming his own precious hide. Obviously this =
will only work for evil wizards, but it works.
Aron Reif
areif@erols.com
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:08:36 -0400
From: Aron Reif <areif@erols.com>
Subject: RE: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timelineand other stuff)
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>Hi!
Hello! =20
>Hmm? I don=B4t know where you=B4ve got this impression of psionics =
from? It
>certainly is not my impression of it! I think, it is nearly impossible =
for a
>psionicist to really control a person.=20
well, maybe not permanently, but at key times. Bring the "figurehead" =
emporer out for addresses, declarations, and such, then lock him in the =
dungeon all other times. The psionicists might not be the named ruler, =
but he'd be the one in control.
>I use psionicists sprasely IMC. For example most mystics (IMC AD&D =
>1stEd. Monks) tend to have at least wild powers.
That might work. I can see some potential with that idea.
>>Aron Reif
>>areif@erols.com
>>Attachment Converted: c:\eudora\attach\RE Psionics in Alphatia (was R
>
>Please STOP the attachments!
Sorry 'bout that. I didn't realize that I was sending any attachments. =
I don't thing I received any when I got my own messages back. I'll try =
to figure out how to get it to stop.
Aron Reif
areif@erols.com
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 02:03:17 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin
On Fri, 19 Sep 1997, Fabrizio Paoli wrote:
> DM once wrote
> >
> >> Asterius (Head): Patron of Trade
> >> Koryis: Patron of Peace and Prosperity
> >> Ixion: Patron of Law and Honesty
> >> The Twelve Watchers: Patrons of Crafts and Work
> >> Valerias: Patroness of Love and Charity
> According to the PWA the following Immortals are worshiped in Darokin:
> Asterius, Ixion, Khoronus, Koryis, Odin, The Twelve Watchers, Valerias,
> Zirchev.
I dont see any reason for Zirchev to be worshipped outside the church of
traldara though....
> I can see why they worship Khoronus, for merchants "time=gold" :)
I am still working on the Church of Thyatis and I'll probably use Khoronus
as head of that old Pantheon...
Uhm..2 a clock? what am I doing up this late?
Hâvard
Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves
Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves,
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 02:00:18 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ideas
On Fri, 19 Sep 1997, Fabrizio Paoli wrote:
> Yes, we thought about this, but we have 2 major problems:
> a) Time: the almanac should be ready for December, but I don't know if
> we'll be able to put together War Machine stats before the deadline.
> b) Rules: we would like to make a rules-free almanac. Since here there're
> people that both play OD&D and AD&D we don't want to choose one system or
> the other. This means that you wan't find NPC stats, but this also means
> that we'll have to find a nice way to present armies without using the War
> Machine....
> Anyway a) is certainly the main problem.
Perhaps someone could make a rules appendix to the almanac with statistics
for both AD&D and OD&D. (And maybe even GURPS?)
It can be released at a later date. I for one would be interested in such
a product.
Hâvard.
Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves
Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves,
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:40:26 -0500
From: brunciak <brunciak@erols.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ideas
On Fri, 19 Sep 1997, Jay Herrington wrote:
> 1. Has anyone working on the almanacs thought about including
> an updated version of the OD&D War Machine stats. Either creating a
> new one to fit with the AD&D rules or just updating the old stats
> given in the first two PWAs.
Actually, I've been converting the War Machine rules for the nations as
of the 1011 almanac to Battlesystem™ standards. If anyone wants me to,
I can post it up in a few days. Thanks!
RMB
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:36:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] Undersea
In regard to psionics being used to control a person -- the same can be
said for priestly and wizardly magic (both have access to "Charm Person"
spells -- "Charm Person or Mammal" in the case of priests). It should
be assumed, however, that most rulers have some sort of countermeasures
in place to prevent magic from being used to affect their minds -- in fact,
module X10 specifically mentions amulets that are commonly worn for
that purpose.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:35:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin
In a message dated 97-09-19 20:24:11 EDT, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes:
<< I dont see any reason for Zirchev to be worshipped outside the church of
traldara though.... >>
Well, there might be a few Traladarans living in Darokin. After all, Darokin
seems to welcome people from all over.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:36:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timeline and other stuff)
I think the true answer, given the fact that no Psionicists were rulers in
Alphatia
as of AC 1000, is that there simply are no Psionicsts there. Either
conditions
in Mystara did not permit Psionicists to develop, or (if you are treating
Mystics
as Psionicists) Psionicists are associated with foreign mystical orders and
thus are distrusted for their foreign loyalties.
However, the events during and after _Wrath of the Immortals_ would have
shaken up both Alphatian societies (the original empire now in the Hollow
World as well as its remnants on the surface) considerably. It may now
be possible for a Psionicist to make a bid for power in Alphatia. Would he
succeed? I suspect that the answer would depend on the popularity of
the contender more than anything else -- arguments for and against the
acceptance of psionics as magic would be raised to support whatever
position the other nobles find convenient. Of course, once there is a
consensus on the question of that particular candidate for nobility, that
consensus would become a precedent that would either confirm or deny
the claims of any future Psionicists to noble status.
Here is an idea for a test case -- somewhere in Bellisaria, one of the rulers
dies. His or her only child is a Psionicist. More distant relatives who are
Mages or Clerics contest the succession. How is the issue settled? I
would be inclined to think that the NACE would rule in favor of the
Psionicist
- -- but remember that a few non-spellcasters are in positions of power
there now.
As for the Alphatian Empire that is now in the Hollow World, I suspect that
the issue does not come up -- the very nature of the Hollow World should
serve to discourage such revolutionary changes there.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:10:00 +0200
From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Subject: RE: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timelineand other stuff)
Hi!
>>Hmm? I don´t know where you´ve got this impression of psionics from? It
>>certainly is not my impression of it! I think, it is nearly impossible for a
>>psionicist to really control a person.
>well, maybe not permanently, but at key times. Bring the "figurehead"
emporer out for addresses, declarations, and such, then lock him in the
dungeon all other times. The psionicists might not be the named ruler, but
he'd be the one
Yes, but the only thing I can think of is "Control Body", where the victim
moves like a robot, and ervery time he makes something that he really
doesn´t like, he´s allowed a ST! So, I don´t see, why a psionicist is more
able to do that than a mage.
>>Please STOP the attachments!
>
>Sorry 'bout that. I didn't realize that I was sending any attachments. I
>don't thing I received any when I got my own messages back. I'll try to
figure >out how to get it to stop.
No treal problem, BUT:
>Aron Reif
>areif@erols.com
>Attachment Converted: c:\eudora\attach\RE Psionics in Alphatia (was R
You did it again!
************************************************************
Peter Balazs
Wurlitzerg. 37/12
1160 Wien
0222/4816030
a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at
pbalazs@radon.mat.univie.ac.at
http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 15:46:37 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin
On Fri, 19 Sep 1997 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 97-09-19 20:24:11 EDT, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes:
> << I dont see any reason for Zirchev to be worshipped outside the church of
> traldara though.... >>
> Well, there might be a few Traladarans living in Darokin. After all, Darokin
> seems to welcome people from all over.
Ah. I did not say that worship of Zirchev was unlikely outside Krameikos,
but outside the Church of Traldara. Fiabrizio mantioned Zirchev, but not
the others of the Traldaran Three (Halav and Petra). The Church of
Traldara is obviously popular in Darokin (Patrick mentioned Selanica as
the center of that Religion). However I find it unlikely that Zirchev is
being worshipped outside that organization. Ofcourse, Zirchev may be more
popular than his fellows in Darokin.
Hâvard.
- -------
Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves
Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves,
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:36:10 +0200
From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ideas
Hi!
>Actually, I've been converting the War Machine rules for the nations as
>of the 1011 almanac to Battlesystem™ standards. If anyone wants me to,
>I can post it up in a few days. Thanks!
I always wanted to do this, but never had enough time, so YES, PLEASE!
************************************************************
Peter Balazs
Wurlitzerg. 37/12
1160 Wien
0222/4816030
a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at
pbalazs@radon.mat.univie.ac.at
http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:36:34 +0200
From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Subject: RE: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] Undersea Timelineand other stuff)
Hi!
I now send this message again to correct the spelling, and do a little
layout, so that you can read it. I´m sorry for the former version, it was
quite late!
>>Hmm? I don´t know where you´ve got this impression of psionics from? It
>>certainly is not my impression of it! I think, it is nearly impossible for a
>>psionicist to really control a person.
>well, maybe not permanently, but at key times. Bring the "figurehead"
emporer >out for addresses, declarations, and such, then lock him in the
dungeon all >other times. The psionicists might not be the named ruler, but
he'd be the one
Yes, but the only thing I can think of is "Control Body", where the victim
moves like a robot, and ervery time he makes something that he really
doesn´t like, he´s allowed a ST! So, I don´t see, why a psionicist is more
able to do that than a mage.
>>Please STOP the attachments!
>
>Sorry 'bout that. I didn't realize that I was sending any attachments. I
>don't thing I received any when I got my own messages back. I'll try to
figure >out how to get it to stop.
No real problem, BUT:
>Aron Reif
>areif@erols.com
>Attachment Converted: c:\eudora\attach\RE Psionics in Alphatia (was R
You did it again!
************************************************************
Peter Balazs
Wurlitzerg. 37/12
1160 Wien
0222/4816030
a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at
pbalazs@radon.mat.univie.ac.at
http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:36:44 +0200
From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin
Hi!
>Besides, in the entry for Asterius in WotI, it says that he's a close friend
>of Ixion (and this is another strange thing about WotI: if he and Ixion were
>friends, why did he side with Rad? And if Vanya and Rathanos were enemies,
>why did they became allies to aid Rad?).
I don´t think that that really is that strange! Just think that the
Immortals are something like politicians. I think that although two
politicans can be close friends, they can nevertheless belong to different
parties, have different oppinions, and so on, and will fight each other
fiercely on the political stage (parliament, ...) . The opposite is also
very possible. I can think of examples here in Austria. In Germany, I think,
there are politicans of the socialdemocratic party, which hate each other´s
guts. And were there not two PR-managers in the US, which married, but
worked for different presidental candidates?
And: Is this not the fun of Mystara? That not everything is black or white?
That not the good fight the evil, but the one fight the other! What I liked
most about WotI is that there was no good and evil side, but just two
oppinions. (Disregarding the broderhood of the Shadow of course!)
And so the Immortals, you mentioned, have to fight an internal conflict : Do
I help my friend or do I fight for what I think is right?
P.S.: I´m ready to send Leroy some money, if that helps solve problems!
************************************************************
Peter Balazs
Wurlitzerg. 37/12
1160 Wien
0222/4816030
a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at
pbalazs@radon.mat.univie.ac.at
http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 10:57:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
In a message dated 97-09-19 09:44:41 EDT, DM responded to my response to
another response (ans so on) concerning my future plans for Mystara:
<< <<Increase of revenue will be done carefully. [ abreviated ] This will
gain support from the poor.>>
i'd say he'd better watch his back from the scorned wealthy senators and
landlords as well as from the unsatisfied commoners. You see, surely a
popular insurrection would overthrow him, but a carefully planned
assassination attempt would do perfectly well, too. And if he upsets the
wealthy people by assessing other taxes ONLY onto them, he will loose
support of the Senate, or worse he will gain ENEMIES in the Senate that will
use their fortunes to bring his downfall. Ancient Roman history is a perfect
example of what i'm trying to explain you. So you see, if he wants to assess
more taxes without fear of reprisals he will have to do it very carefully,
and this means he must wait for at least a decade before seeing the results
of his economic maneuvers (and this is why your plan is not acceptable AT
THE MOMENT, in AC 1015 -because that's what you proposed at first, that this
whole scenario be staged in AC 1015, remember your first post).>>
All interesting points if you think of them in AC1015 terms. But, as I have
repeatedly said "these events evolve over a several year period". This is a
point that I did not clarify in the original post. To be honest, I figured it
would rightly assumed since it was known that work was already nearing
completion on the AC1015 Almanac.
I assure you that Eusebius is well aware of the dangers of over taxation. He
will obviously take measures to cover his back from the wealthy and Senators.
Most war revenue will be collected using discreet backroom dealings and
manipulations.
Interesting you brought up Rome. Who was Emperor? The man that was supported
by the Legions. This support is increased as the general public begins to
live better lives through the spoils of war. As for the Senator, Eusebius has
little worry. The Senators are rewarded for their support during the war.
Each conquered territory needs administrators. The merchants and wealthy
families will also fall into this category. They will also profit as they
gain the markets formally held by Minrothad. Then there are the profits they
will make by supplying and maintaning the armies. Those ships, weapons,
armor, etc have to come from somewhere.
<<I also remind you that NACE and Karameikos expect some sort of agression
from Thyatis. NACE is experiencing growing pains and has more domestic
concerns to address.>>
Pardon? IIRC Karameikos and NACE are now on friendly terms with Thyatis
(remember who helped Thicol overcome the famine in Thyatis City? Duke
Stephan!). Also, which internal problems are you referring to regarding
NACE? Esterhold is a hotbed, but nothing that cannot be dealt with,
especially now that Favian Vern is its Governor. So what are you talking
about?
And talking about Aegos, Thyatis and Minrothad are allied in that project:
i don't see why Eusebius would want to break such an advantageous
relationship with Minrothad, really.>>
Yes they are on friendly terms with Thyatis. As they will be when Thyatis
strikes Minrothad. It is this friendliness that is partially responsible for
keeping them from warring with Thyatis. Toss in guarantees of no serious
alterations in trade through the Guilds and I see few reasons for them to
want to risk a war with the then "invincible Thyatian War Machine".
NACE's problems are mostly oriented in my own campaign. Besides the obvious
distances with the territories, there are also a few NACE nobles that are
trying to gain added influence among their peers at Council. I also have a
slight difference of opinion coming from Eriadna in HW and the Council on
Ionace. This mainly deals with Eriadna's switch to policies concerning trade
instead of "outright conquest from the old days" (PWA).
<<Thyatis should think about rebuilding its economy and national morale
first.
Conquest is a quick way to do this. Just look into RW history. Nazi Germany
used war to create jobs and draw resources. Also, looking at RW WW2 history,
you will see Germany's use of warfare to rebuild its own economy. Also, at
first Germany took territory in small amounts, almost daring England and
France to intervene. Perhaps the combined conquests of both Minrothad and
Ierendi will be the Poland that draws the other nations into conflict (not
neccessarily war) against Thyatis.>>
I am sorry, but you're making a blunder here. The scenarios you're trying to
compare are almost totally different. First of all, it's true that Germany
succeeded in reducing unemployment rate at 4% during Hitler's premiership
(and it dropped to 0% when the war started) and it's also true that Hitler
founded Germany's rebirth on the war industry, almost to the point that he
was OBLIGED to start WW2 if he didn't want to declare bankruptcy,>>
You have a point AT THIS MOMENT. But given a few events IMC the move to go to
war is logical. One example is a failed (or should I say blundered) joint
Thyatian/Minrothad trade expedition. Another are real pirate attacks on
Thyatian shipping.
<<BUT:
1. Germany's funds came from the heavy industry and the chemical industry
for the most, two things that doesn't exist in the KW;>>
In a fantasy setting such industies do not exist. You could draw up some
simular ones.
Heavy industry- Ship building, arms, textiles
Chemical- Salt, spices, herbs,
Then there is trade. Taking Minrothad opens up and extends trade routs as
well as product lines.
<<2. Germany's industry was backed up by an enormous amount of raw materials
that the Reich could extract from the occupied territories (namely Hungary,
Cecoslovakia and the Alsace-Loir region): your comparison implies that
Minrothad and Ierendi have these resources, which is far from true;>>
Actually, the role is reversed. Thyatis has the materials but not the skilled
labor force and industries to utilize them fully. Minrothad does. In the end
the result would be the same, increased revenue from combination of conqueror
and conqueree's resources. Then there are bonuses of tribute, taxes on goods,
and expanded market. Much like England did with its own Empire. Use the
Territories as broadened markets for English goods. The economical aspect is
key here.
<<3. Germany came from the Weimar Republic when Hitler rose to power, and
this
is not the case of Thyatis. During the Weimar Republic Germany had to pay
its war debts for WW1 and its economy dumped: this made the Germans hate the
concept of Republic, Democracy and government of the people, and so they
started dreaming about the brave resourceful LEADER that would have taken
Germany back to its glory days.. and this is when Hitler came out. We are
talking here of a period of 15 years (from the end of WW1 to Hitler's first
year as Chancellor in 1933) where the Germans had to face many adversities
that finally pushed them to favour Hitler's rise to power. In our case,
Thyatis has been out of the war for only 5 years and it's not as hopeless as
Germany was. The thyatian citizens surely don't feel that need for revenge
or return to glory as the Germans did, and they wouldn't back up another war
so soon after what happened just five years before;>>
Still it falls into Eusebius's plans to use the domestic problems to support
such campaigns. The differences are mainly in the exact types of domestic
problems. These are also detailed IMC. These domestic disturbances allow
Eusebius to assert more authority.
<<4. Hitler could lead Germany to war ONLY because the great landlords
(Junkers), the army, the great financiers and businessmen supported his
plans. If Eusebius doesn't get the support of those who have the power in
Thyatis (landlords, generals and senators), he will never start a war..
which is what he gets if he overtaxes the richmen;>>
He over taxes them, but he also makes promises to them on their "investment"
as he calls it. Eusebius has support of the military due to his bringing it
up to strength (and beyond), their victories, his own military connections,
and programs he initiated to boost their sense of comraderie. Landlords are
kept in check by promises of new lands, new slaves, and bigger market for
crops and livestock. Senators are friendly towards Eusebius due to his purges
of opponents after taking the throne. Then there are those promises of
government positions to family members. Several Senators do resist. Eusebius
makes examples out of them. There properties are used to finance the 29th
Imperial Cohort and the 2nd Regiment of 25th Fleet. The populace relish the
prosperity as jobs are created to construct war materials such as ships,
arms, etc. Once again events taken from my campaign.
<<5. Finally, the way Hitler used to incorporate the adjacent nations into
his
own Reich is far different from the one you are suggesting for Thyatis to do
with Minrothad and Ierendi. Hitler succeeded in his Anschluss of Alsace-Loir
region, Austria, Hungary, Bohemia (and then Cechoslovakia) because>>
Thyatis is fairly adept at integrating conquered lands into the Empire. Give
the conquered good terms and make them citizens. Who is going to resist if no
real change has happened? Well except Haittias. And even they provide two
Cohorts and a two Fleets to the war effort. Long story with multiple
precautions taken to keep them under Imperial control.
<< A) there was already a german minority living in those countries who
(pushed by the local Nazi party) asked for the permission to be annexed to
Germany's
territory; >>
How widespread is the Thyatian language? Most KW nations speak it in some
area. But I get your meaning. Though there will be the opportunity to use
such heritage based annexations, these will not be used in most cases.
Instead the reasons will be conquest and acquisition, pure and simple.
<<and B) Great Britain's Prime Minister Chamberlain (and France
too) wanted to play the German card against the bolscevic threat (namely
Stalin's USSR). England and France allied them with the Third Reich because
of Hitler's open policy of anti-bolscevism and anti-comunism: they hoped
Germany could be used as a sanitary belt to check the advancing Communism,
and so let him add lands to the Reich only to reinforce it against USSR;
never they imagined that Hitler and Stalin could sign a pact of
non-belligerancy. And when they found out, it was too late.. In our case,
why should the NACE and WDL let Thyatis conquer Minrothad and Ierendi? As
you see, the paragon doesn't fit very well.>>
Never intended the Poland referance to be exact. There is no threat of
communism to relate to in the Sea of Dread. I mainly intended the taking of
Ierendi and Minrothad to be the wake up call to other nations.
<<I also stress that Minrothad and Ierendi are possible keys to the control
of the Sea of Dread. And IIRC Minrothad has been criticized by Thyatis for
being so nuetral in the past. Their lack of involvement might lessen the
need for military intervention and aid.>>
Mmhh.. when did Thyatis criticize Minrothad? And if so, who cares? I don't
think it's a good reason to start a war. remained neutral during the last
conflict, this is not a reason the other powers would let Thyatis conquer it:
even a blind man can recognize it strategic importance. Your logic doesn't
seem so foolproof here.>>
Thyatis wants Minrothad for its trade market and strategic position. Mainly
the critism is about Minrothad's neutrality is a propaganda tool and excuse
for invasion. To essentially, justify it to the rest of the world. It is not
intended to be the sole reason for invasion. There are also some mitigating
factors concerning trade conflicts. Then there are some disagreements
concerning Aegos. The neutrality thing is mainly to plant a seed of reason
for the invasion. I believe this critism was expressed in one of the PWAs.
IIRC it was recapped during the History section for Minrothad. It might also
be stated in the WotI, but I am not sure.
<<Most nations have or are on good diplomatic terms with Thyatis. On the
other hand Minrothad has distanced itself in past conflicts and sold
materials to both sides.>>
You again underestimates Minrothad diplomacy. Being a nation of merchants,
they're used at dealing with other nations, and GAZ9 tells us that Minrothad
is on good terms with many nations too. Only Darokin surpasses its diplomats
in wits and manners.>>
You really have to weigh these into any intervention and condemnation. Is
Minrothad worth butting heads with Thyatis? Probably not. Especially if trade
is unaffected. Irerendi would protest more do to its close proximity.
Can any intervention force be assembled and mobilized to aid the Guilds in
time? Probably not. Even a flotilla from Ierendi would take several days to
be assembled and arrive to the Guild Islands.
Ierendi does send a token naval force to Minrothad. However, they are halted
by a two Thyatian Fleets (War Galleys) acting as a picket line. A brief
skirmish arises with the Ierendi losing two ships nad one damaged. The
Thyatians lose three ships and six damaged. They are forced to turn back.
However, Ierendi does begin preparations for defense and a possible assault
on Minrothad the following year.
Interesting you bring up Darokin. The DDC is dispatched to negotiate the new
trade terms with Thyatis concerning Minrothad. It is through the DDC (or so
is believed) that Thyatis is able to calm the fears of NACE, Karameikos, and
Irendi. When Irendi is taken the following year, the DDC is sent to
negotiate. Instead of a welcome, they are snubbed. A little bit of
satisfaction for any of you that think the DDC has put their noses in other
countries business too often.
<< Karameikos fears that Thyatis will one day try to retake the kingdom, yet
they provided grain during the Thyatian famine.>>
What? Where do you get this feeling from? Karameikos has never been so safe
IMO: it's a Kingdom, it has diplomatic ties and links to every major nation
in the world, it has a good economy and it has military arrangement with his
neighbours that ensures its safety. Maybe 20 years ago it was more thyatian
than karameikan, but not now. I have the impression you're basing your
reasoning more on your feelings than on factual data..>>
As with Minrothad, Karameikos's diplomatic ties are insignificant. If
Eusebius wanted to launch the Cohorts into Karameikos he would. I will say
that NACE and WDL would strongly protest this and go to war over it. Eusebius
does not invade Karameikos. Remember, IMC Justin Karameikos is running
Machetos. Eusebius had planned on retaking Karameikos but his growing
friendship and admiration for Justin prevents this.
<< There may be some protests and saber rattling, but I feel few nations
want war for Minrothad. Now throw in Ierendi and things may change. But by
then, it will be too late for the two island nations.
What does it mean? Following your reasoning, if a nation has been out of the
war and has traded with many different countries, then it's not likely other
countries will come into its aid. But Ierendi has done the same thing: so
why should it inspire more friendship to other nations? Because it's a
paradise for holiday makers and travelers?? Darokin did the same, but many
countries helped it during the Master invasion because they realized its
strategic importance: the same thing applies for Minrothad AND Ierendi.>>
Simply put. The fall of Ierendi is the straw that broke the camel's back.
Taking Minrothad is one thing. Matters concerning it can be smoothed over.
Explanations given. Clearly shown that trade will not be interupted. Though
the other nations might grumble a bit and dislike the notion of Thyatis
running Minrothad, they would have to live with it unless they want to go to
war. However, during the following year when Thyatis assaults Ierendi the
true threat of Thyatian aggression and offensive capability is recognized.
Most nations suspected the Thyatian intent on Ierendi. However, they felt
that the Ierendi had used the year to construct more than adequate defenses
as well as complete mobilization of the naval forces. When Ierendi falls, it
sends a shock throughout the KW. Unbeknownst to them as well as most
Thyatians (including the Emperor), Thyatian casulties are so high no further
offensives are feasible for that year. Consequently, none are carried out the
following year either. Most military actions in the two following years
consist of holding the ground gained. The only exception is the small
offensive in the Hinterlands which gains but a few miles of land. More
casualties come from disease and the heat than Clan warriors.
<<Minrothad's Navy is not all that big and powerful (PWA 1 and 2).>>
I've checked thru it, and i'm sorry but the PWA gives you not the real
strength of Minrothad. I know this may seem illogic for me to contradict a
"canonic source" such as PWA, but i also own GAZ9, and this contains a big
section that praises the powers and resources of the Merchant Princes. GAZ9
says that a good number of captains in Minrothad is a Merchant Prince, but
there's no mention of Wizards leading a ship in PWA: this is a HUGE
inconsistency that is obviously misleading you. And the same applies for
Ierendi: the Royal Navy and the Wizards of Honor Island are not taken into
consideration. If they were, the BR would be much higher as well as the
number of ships if PWA considered also Minrothad privateers.>>
I have to agree with you about the size. I compensated for this by having the
Minrothad Armed Forces in Wartime numbers (even though they should be at a
Standing numbers). I also allowed a privateer naval fleet of about 16
vessels. You may think this is too low. But when the pirates clashed with the
Thyatians off Fire Island they took heavy casualties. I have also formed an
irregular fleet based on vessels of the Merchant Princes and other private
vessels pressed into service.
<<I also made mention of partially conquered. Portions of Minrothad do fall
to the Thyatians. However, Thyatian resources are strained in these
sucesses.
Minrothad feels that it has lost and sues for peace. It does manage to get
good concessions as to rule. In short, it is a Thyatian kingdom but will be
overseen by Thyatian and Thyatian supporting officials (ex. Vichy France
WW2). Everyday life will remain the same on Minrothad. The various Guilds
support this as it will allow them to return to their mercantile businesses
with only paying a percentage to the Thyatians. To them, war would be bad
for their business.>>
Mmh, yes, this is a logic and good scenario. Unfortunately as i'm trying to
show you, Thyatis lacks the basis to wage a war against Minrothad AT THE
MOMENT (and i wouldn't say that thyatis would be able to conquer Minrothad
so easily): remember the key word is AT THE MOMENT...>>
You are correct with AT THE MOMENT is the key word. As I have stated and
restated, the Minrothad offensive only occurs after a couple of years of
rebuilding and expansion concerning the Thyatian war machine. This notion of
all this developing and happening in a years time is not only impossible but
also foolish. It has about as much chance of working in a single year as it
would work in a single day.
I am not really sure how the conception of all this occurring in one year
came about for it was not intended to be presented that way. I suspect that
the fault lies in my original presentation. Though it was not intended, I
fear it may have seemed as if I had all of this occurring in one years time.
For that I am obliged to apologize for misleading the readers.
Still, you have to admit it did stir things up :-)
Alex
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V2 #146
*****************************
From: owner-mystara-digest@ (mystara-digest)
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #147
Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
Sender: owner-mystara-digest@
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Precedence: bulk
mystara-digest Monday, September 22 1997 Volume 02 : Number 147
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 10:29:21 -0700
From: "Patrick" <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin
> Others?
Everything you've said looks great (although I'm not sure Al-Kalim should
be extremely popular, but his church should definitely be rapidly growing).
Also, depending on each DM's views on whether Rad should have clerics,
there should be (or have been if Rad is really gone IYC) at least one large
temple of Rad in Corunglain that contains clerics.
Patrick
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 10:45:18 -0700
From: "Patrick" <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin
>Ah. I did not say that worship of Zirchev was unlikely outside Krameikos,
>but outside the Church of Traldara. Fiabrizio mantioned Zirchev, but not
>the others of the Traldaran Three (Halav and Petra). The Church of
>Traldara is obviously popular in Darokin (Patrick mentioned Selanica as
>the center of that Religion). However I find it unlikely that Zirchev is
>being worshipped outside that organization. Ofcourse, Zirchev may be more
>popular than his fellows in Darokin.
Actually, I think that the Church of Traladara should be more popular in
the tiny villages in the wilderness around Selenica, but there should
definitely (IMO) be at least one temple of that church in Selenica. It
makes sense to me that in the wilds of eastern Darokin Zirchev would be
worshipped above and beyond Halav and Petra. After all, he is a patron of
woodsmen and hunting, which would certainly have greater appeal to the
brave pioneers of the East, as well as the Traladarans who have struggled
to survive there for centuries. Halav should have a following in
Corunglain, but he probably is not as popular in general as Zirchev.
As long as we're talking about Darokin, I'll repeat a question I asked
earlier on the list: Where is Fort Fletcher (headquarters of the Fourth
Army of Darokin in both OD&D PWAs)? I can't find it on any of my maps:(
Patrick
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 11:09:58 -0700
From: "Patrick" <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortal of Healing Wanted!
> Chardastes... Chiron also comes to mind. In RW Greek myth, Chiron taught
> Asclepius the ways of healing; Asclepius was the first mortal to bring a
> being back from the dead, which earned him the (fatal) wrath of Zeus...
> Asclepius' sons, Machaon and Podalirius became the mythical fathers of
Greek
> medicine. Perhaps Chardastes was a Thyatian, Milenian or Traldar
sponsored
> for Immortality by Chiron (who should be much higher in level IMO)? I
think
> Chardastes was discussed earlier...
Chardastes was discussed on the list this Spring in quite a bit of detail.
I asked for different takes on him while working on my campaign in western
Karameikos. While it is certainly not cannon, the history I made (with
input from several list members) said that Chardastes was an ancient
Traladaran king in the Cruth Lowlands (I can't recall the dates offhand,
but I think he originally lived around the crowning of the first emperor of
Thyatis. He was a kind and good cleric, devoted to healing, and he was
sponsored by Petra. His clerics get the ability to cast cure light wounds
once per day besides any other spells.
Patrick
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 20:08:39 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin
On Sun, 21 Sep 1997, Patrick wrote:
> > Others?
> Everything you've said looks great (although I'm not sure Al-Kalim should
> be extremely popular, but his church should definitely be rapidly growing).
Agreed.
> Also, depending on each DM's views on whether Rad should have clerics,
> there should be (or have been if Rad is really gone IYC) at least one large
> temple of Rad in Corunglain that contains clerics.
I think Rads priests should be Wizards rather than Clerics. The guys who
hang around the Temple of Rad are used as Comic Relief in Glantri.
(Rad-Rad-Rad-Gong!) Maybe someone could do a serious writeup on them.
Meybe something like the Wizards of Krynn who actually can be seen as
Priests of the Moon Gods(I'm ofcourse not talking about 5th Age here)
It doesn't seem likely that Rad would want clerics. His
somewhat restrained relationship with the servants of the cloth of Laterre
could have something to do with it.
Hâvard
- ---
Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves
Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves,
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 21:47:03 -0400
From: wjnowackl@MEM.po.com
Subject: [Mystara] Some ?
Okay, here are a few questions I have:
1. On the map in DotE, Heldann is labled the Heldannic Freeholds, the
map is dated AC 1000. In WotI, the AC 1000 map, lables them the
Heldannic Territories. In JA, one of the correspondents talks about
how Heldann was once known as the Helldannic Freeholds. How does this
fit into Mystara's history? I guess I'm asking when the Knights took
over Heldann.
2.Has anyone had any sucess running X10 during Wrath, as I am thinking
of trying to find a copy to use in my upcoming campaign?
Aaron Nowack
"Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 00:36:14 -0500
From: brunciak <brunciak@erols.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin
Kaviyd@aol.com wrote:
> Well, there might be a few Traladarans living in Darokin. After
> all, Darokin seems to welcome people from all over.
Don't forget that in Gaz 11 it says that large numbers of Traladarans
fled to Darokin after the "invasion" of Traladara by Thyatis way back
when.
RMB
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 00:45:28 -0500
From: brunciak <brunciak@erols.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ideas
I wrote:
>> Actually, I've been converting the War Machine rules for the
>> nations as of the 1011 almanac to Battlesystem™ standards. If
>> anyone wants me to, I can post it up in a few days. Thanks!
Peter Balazs wrote:
> I always wanted to do this, but never had enough time, so YES,
> PLEASE!
Give me a week. I still have to complete the Alphatian territories and
Thyatis (OH BOY!) plus I have a lot of projects due for school.
PLEASE BE PATIENT! Thanks!
RMB
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 01:00:49 -0500
From: brunciak <brunciak@erols.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin
Patrick wrote:
.
> As long as we're talking about Darokin, I'll repeat a question I
> asked earlier on the list: Where is Fort Fletcher (headquarters of
> the Fourth Army of Darokin in both OD&D PWAs)? I can't find it on
> any of my maps:(
On the map in Gaz 11, Ft Fletcher is in between the Broken Lands and
Glantri on Darokin's northern border. It's about 55 miles northeast of
Bronsdale, 16 miles northwest of the Ardelphian Ruins, and about 65 -70
miles west-southwest of Ft. Runnels. Where it is now that there is a
big crater near there I don't know; I have to see my Almanacs and WotI.
Hope this helps!
RMB
P.S. Has anyone noticed on their maps for Gaz11 that the way the
western border is drawn, it seems like there are hexes where a line of
forts would be...? (Just an insignificant thought)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 11:15:45 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ideas
At 02.00 20/09/97 +0200, you wrote:
>Perhaps someone could make a rules appendix to the almanac with statistics
>for both AD&D and OD&D. (And maybe even GURPS?)
>It can be released at a later date. I for one would be interested in such
>a product.
Yes, I had that same idea.
If there's enough people interested it can be done.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 07:22:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Galeifel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Some ?
In einer eMail vom 21.09.97 03:04:04, schreiben Sie:
<< 1. On the map in DotE, Heldann is labled the Heldannic Freeholds, the
map is dated AC 1000. In WotI, the AC 1000 map, lables them the
Heldannic Territories. In JA, one of the correspondents talks about
how Heldann was once known as the Helldannic Freeholds. How does this
fit into Mystara's history? I guess I'm asking when the Knights took
over Heldann. >>
The Heldann Freeholds were officially conquered in 950 AC (JA,p.206). They
are still called the Heldann Freeholds on the DotE map, because it is
pre-Princess Ark, in which it was established that the Heldanners are, or are
at least ruled by, evil knights, which didn't fit in with the idea of Heldann
being a agricultural nation, similar in culture to the Northern Reaches.
Garafaele Galeifel
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 14:03:28 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin
I wrote:
> >Ah. I did not say that worship of Zirchev was unlikely outside Krameikos,
> >but outside the Church of Traldara. Fiabrizio mantioned Zirchev, but not
> >the others of the Traldaran Three (Halav and Petra). The Church of
> >Traldara is obviously popular in Darokin (Patrick mentioned Selanica as
> >the center of that Religion). However I find it unlikely that Zirchev is
> >being worshipped outside that organization. Ofcourse, Zirchev may be more
> >popular than his fellows in Darokin.
On Sun, 21 Sep 1997, Patrick commented:
> Actually, I think that the Church of Traladara should be more popular in
> the tiny villages in the wilderness around Selenica, but there should
> definitely (IMO) be at least one temple of that church in Selenica. It
> makes sense to me that in the wilds of eastern Darokin Zirchev would be
> worshipped above and beyond Halav and Petra. After all, he is a patron of
> woodsmen and hunting, which would certainly have greater appeal to the
> brave pioneers of the East, as well as the Traladarans who have struggled
> to survive there for centuries. Halav should have a following in
> Corunglain, but he probably is not as popular in general as Zirchev.
Yep. I dont think there are any temples of Halav. Or any Temples of
Zirchev. There are just Temples of Traldara. However, some of the temples
can be dedicated mainly to one Traldaran Hero. Also, there can be shrines
dedicated to just one immortal, which would be more appropriate in the
rural areas. This may seem like an insignificant detail, but I think such
details are important, and this is how I envision it.
One temple in Selenica and one major temple dedicated to Halav in
Corunglain sounds like a good idea to me.
Hâvard.
- -------
Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves
Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves,
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 09:39:33 -0400
From: wjnowackl@MEM.po.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Some ?
- ------------------------- Begin Original -------------------------
In einer eMail vom 21.09.97 03:04:04, schreiben Sie:
<< 1. On the map in DotE, Heldann is labled the Heldannic Freeholds,
the
map is dated AC 1000. In WotI, the AC 1000 map, lables them the
Heldannic Territories. In JA, one of the correspondents talks about
how Heldann was once known as the Helldannic Freeholds. How does this
fit into Mystara's history? I guess I'm asking when the Knights took
over Heldann. >>
The Heldann Freeholds were officially conquered in 950 AC (JA,p.206).
They
are still called the Heldann Freeholds on the DotE map, because it is
pre-Princess Ark, in which it was established that the Heldanners are,
or are
at least ruled by, evil knights, which didn't fit in with the idea of
Heldann
being a agricultural nation, similar in culture to the Northern Reaches.
Garafaele Galeifel
- ------------------------- End Original -------------------------
Thank you.
Aaron Nowack
"Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 12:54:47 -0400
From: Aron Reif <areif@erols.com>
Subject: RE: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] Undersea
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>In regard to psionics being used to control a person -- the same can be
>said for priestly and wizardly magic (both have access to "Charm =
Person"
>spells -- "Charm Person or Mammal" in the case of priests). It should
>be assumed, however, that most rulers have some sort of countermeasures
>in place to prevent magic from being used to affect their minds -- in =
fact,
>module X10 specifically mentions amulets that are commonly worn for
>that purpose.
Not quite. First off, the Powers of "Domination" or "Mass Domination" =
are much more powerful and direct than any Charm spell. You don't have =
to waste time trying to convince the target of what you want him to do. =
You Dominate his head and MAKE him do it, even if he doesn't want to. =
Second, magic is NOT psionics, and magic amulets to prevent MAGIC charms =
will do nothing to prevent psionics. There might be some sort of =
psionically-enchanted item to block psionics, but those would probably =
be rare even in a world where psionics are common. Unless you want to =
give psionics a MUCH bigger role in Mystara, those will be almost =
unheard of.
Aron Reif
areif@erols.com
(Sorry in advance for the attachment)
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 12:45:38 -0400
From: Aron Reif <areif@erols.com>
Subject: RE: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] UnderseaTimelineand other stuff)
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> Hi!
Hello!
>>>Hmm? I don=B4t know where you=B4ve got this impression of psionics =
from? It
>>>certainly is not my impression of it! I think, it is nearly =
impossible for a
>>>psionicist to really control a person.=20
>>well, maybe not permanently, but at key times. Bring the "figurehead"
>emporer >out for addresses, declarations, and such, then lock him in =
the
>dungeon all >other times. The psionicists might not be the named =
ruler, but
>he'd be the one=20
>
>Yes, but the only thing I can think of is "Control Body", where the =
victim
>moves like a robot, and ervery time he makes something that he really
>doesn=B4t like, he=B4s allowed a ST! So, I don=B4t see, why a =
psionicist is more
>able to do that than a mage.
>
What about "Domination", "Mass Domination", or "Switch Personalities"?? =
I'm sure there are others, but these came to my mind right away. Any of =
these could be used to accomplish what I was talking about. These =
powers get the target to do EXACTLY what you want them to do, no =
questions asked. You don't have to be their buddy and convince them to =
do what you want them to do like with a Charm spell. You just dominate =
their mind and MAKE them do what you want them to do. They'll know what =
you've been doing to them, but they can't do anything about it.
>>>Please STOP the attachments!
>
>>Sorry 'bout that. I didn't realize that I was sending any =
attachments. I
>>don't thing I received any when I got my own messages back. I'll try =
to
>figure >out how to get it to stop.
>
>No real problem, BUT:
>
>>Aron Reif
>>areif@erols.com
>>Attachment Converted: c:\eudora\attach\RE Psionics in Alphatia (was R
>
>You did it again!
>
To quote the immortal Homer Simpson: DOH!!!
I think it's this Microsoft Exchange that's doing it. I'll look into =
getting another email reader this week. Until then, I'll try to keep my =
posts to a minimum.
Aron Reif
areif@erols.com
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BQAAAFJFOiAAAAAAVak=
- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCC68D.AF2ECEA0--
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 02:54:10 +0200
From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Subject: RE: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] Undersea
Hi!
>Not quite. First off, the Powers of "Domination" or "Mass Domination" are
much >more powerful and direct than any Charm spell. You don't have to
waste time >trying to convince the target of what you want him to do. You
Dominate his >head and MAKE him do it, even if he doesn't want to.
Domination: Wis-4, 30 yards
Target has a ST and if he has to do something which is against his very
being he get´s another ST!
It is quite costly!
But I think you are right, it is powerful!
>Second, magic is NOT psionics, and magic amulets to prevent MAGIC charms
will >do nothing to prevent psionics. There might be some sort of
>psionically-enchanted item to block psionics, but those would probably be
rare >even in a world where psionics are common. Unless you want to give
psionics a >MUCH bigger role in Mystara, those will be almost unheard of.
Yes, I think this is a good point!
>(Sorry in advance for the attachment)
>Attachment Converted: c:\eudora\attach\RE Psionics in Alphatia (was R1
Thanks! But how do you do it? Can´t you stop it?
>I think it's this Microsoft Exchange that's doing it. I'll look into
getting >another email reader this week. Until then, I'll try to keep my
posts to a >minimum.
Big Brother, huh? Or better Big Unrelieable But Powerhungry Brother?
And please, although it is kind of annoying, don´t let it (or me) stop you
sending your mails!
>What about "Domination", "Mass Domination", or "Switch Personalities"?? I'm
>sure there are others, but these came to my mind right away. Any of these
>could be used to accomplish what I was talking about. These powers get the
>target to do EXACTLY what you want them to do, no questions asked. You
don't >have to be their buddy and convince them to do what you want them to
do like >with a Charm spell. You just dominate their mind and MAKE them do
what you >want them to do. They'll know what you've been doing to them, but
they can't >do anything about it.
Yes, you are right, these are powerful abilities. Esp. Switch Personalities.
One of my PC´s nearly got out of Ravenloft with this power. (An Illithid!!!
Fun!!!)
************************************************************
Peter Balazs
Wurlitzerg. 37/12
1160 Wien
0222/4816030
a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at
pbalazs@radon.mat.univie.ac.at
http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:50:54 +1300
From: Liam Jones <liamj@iconz.co.nz>
Subject: [Mystara] Mystara PBeM
Anyone interested in joining a PBeM OD&D game based on X4, X5, I have a
couple of openings, check out
http://www2.southwind.net/~phoenyx/master/index.html then email me if
interested.
Liam
- --------------------------------------------------------
Liam Jones Page me as soon as I log on at:
Auckland, New Zealand http://wwp.mirabilis.com/2272869
liamj@iconz.co.nz
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:11:34 -0700
From: Sebastian Quiles <sq7s@dc.uba.ar>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortal of Healing Wanted!
> Chardastes was discussed on the list this Spring in quite a bit of detail.
> I asked for different takes on him while working on my campaign in western
> Karameikos.
excuse the off-topic... Here in the south Hemisfere since TODAY we are
in Spring..:)
- --
Sebastian Quiles
Universidad de Buenos Aires - ARGENTINA
mailto:sq7s@dc.uba.ar
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:51:46 -0700
From: "Patrick" <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin
I think Rads priests should be Wizards rather than Clerics. The guys who
hang around the Temple of Rad are used as Comic Relief in Glantri.
(Rad-Rad-Rad-Gong!) Maybe someone could do a serious writeup on them.
Meybe something like the Wizards of Krynn who actually can be seen as
Priests of the Moon Gods(I'm ofcourse not talking about 5th Age here)
It doesn't seem likely that Rad would want clerics. His
somewhat restrained relationship with the servants of the cloth of Laterre
could have something to do with it.
__________
I agree that within Glantri Rad's following is made up of wizards.
However, WotI implies that he DOES have clerical followers, so I'm inclined
to use them. IMC, Corunglain had many temples with high-level clerics in
order to serve the healing and spiritual needs of the adventurers who
frequented Corunglain as well as wealthy Glanrian citizens who would pay
top daro for clerical healing rather than having to deal with the
inefficient and sometimes-dangerous magical equivalents (i.e. they would
pay for a Raise Dead spell rather than Reincarnation). For this reason, I
placed a large temple of Rad in Corunglain that contained clerics.
Now that Glantri allows clerics and the Eastern Broken Lands are no longer
a source for easy prey for adventurers, Corunglain is suffering from a
post-wrath depression (IMC, of course).
Patrick
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:07:38 -0700
From: "Patrick" <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin
> On the map in Gaz 11, Ft Fletcher is in between the Broken Lands and
> Glantri on Darokin's northern border. It's about 55 miles northeast of
> Bronsdale, 16 miles northwest of the Ardelphian Ruins, and about 65 -70
> miles west-southwest of Ft. Runnels. Where it is now that there is a
> big crater near there I don't know; I have to see my Almanacs and WotI.
> Hope this helps!
> RMB
Thank you very much. I suspected that it was somewhere in that general
area. Looking on the piece of the trailmap included in the Rules
Cyclopedia, I found "...her" northwest of Ardelphia, so I guess that must
be the end of Fletcher. Looking at the map in the Glantri boxed set, I
think it is about the right distance away from the meteor's point of impact
to have survived (I think it's about as far away as Ellerovyn). But since
it hasn't been on any map since Gaz11 and the trailmaps, it could have been
destroyed and rebuilt nearby.
> P.S. Has anyone noticed on their maps for Gaz11 that the way the
> western border is drawn, it seems like there are hexes where a line of
> forts would be...? (Just an insignificant thought)
Since I don't have Gaz11, I don't know what you mean, but I might know why:
X10 portrays the citizens of the Republic, particularly Akesoli, believing
that there is no way that the Master of Hule would consider attacking the
"superior" legions of the Republic, much less the disorganized Sindhis who
were there before. The way X10 is written, the Master's forces have no
trouble whatsoever with Akesoli: all the Darokin armies are on the other
side of lake Amsorak. Gaz11 left it possible for the Master to take
Akesoli in either 1005 or 1200, depending on which date you prefer for the
invasion.
Thanks for helping me!
Patrick
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 07:51:13 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: RE: Psionics in Alphatia (was Re: [Mystara] Undersea
On the matter of magical items protecting against magical control:
I see no reason why there shouldn't be plenty of Magical items protecting
people from psionics. If the old ones dont work, ther's no reason not to
make up some new ones.
Hâvard.
- -----
Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves
Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves,
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 01:59:33 PDT
From: "Luca Toni" <newspell@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A list survey
My stats/interests:
Name: Luca Toni
E-Mail: NewSpell@HotMail.com
From: Solarolo,Italy
Interests: Role-play, Computer, Fantasy, Science, etc...
Age: 20 (01/25/77)
Profession: University Student
Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/6744
Marital Status: single
Started Playing RPGs: Winter 1990
First Played D&D: 1990
Campaign Playing: OD&D in a all over the known world campaign
Current Projects: many new spells for OD&D
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 12:04:12 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Aleksei Andrievski <k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi>
Subject: [Mystara] Immortal campaign
Hello,
I'm just interested, has anyone ever run an immortal campaign? Did you
like it? How did it feel?
***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord
** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but
** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us."
** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages,
** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers."
** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread."
*****************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:14:34 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ideas
At 11.00 19/09/97 -0400, Jay Herrington wrote:
> 2. Does the idea of wizards losing a point of constitution every
>time they cast a permanency spell not seem to fit in with the Mystara
>setting. It seems that it would take dozens of permanency spells to
>create a flying skyship. Not to mention that Eriadna wants a new fleet
>built to replace the old one.
IIRC, D&D Permanency doesn't make the caster loose a point of Con: are u
referring to AD&D spell? Anyway, there is no such problem in enchanting
skyships, even using AD&D rules, because MUs in Mystara don't use Permanency
to enchant aircraft: they have to cast 3 times the "FLY" or whatever spell
they want to use to the ship section they want to enchant. They don't use
Permanency, but it's far more expensive and long as a process.
DM
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:46:56 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
At 10.57 20/09/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Simply put. The fall of Ierendi is the straw that broke the camel's back.
>Taking Minrothad is one thing. Matters concerning it can be smoothed over.
>Explanations given. Clearly shown that trade will not be interupted. Though
>the other nations might grumble a bit and dislike the notion of Thyatis
>running Minrothad, they would have to live with it unless they want to go to
>war. However, during the following year when Thyatis assaults Ierendi the
>true threat of Thyatian aggression and offensive capability is recognized.
>Most nations suspected the Thyatian intent on Ierendi. However, they felt
>that the Ierendi had used the year to construct more than adequate defenses
>as well as complete mobilization of the naval forces. When Ierendi falls, it
>sends a shock throughout the KW. Unbeknownst to them as well as most
>Thyatians (including the Emperor), Thyatian casulties are so high no further
>offensives are feasible for that year. Consequently, none are carried out the
>following year either. Most military actions in the two following years
>consist of holding the ground gained.
So, let's go on with your plans and let's see how the situation will be
after Thyatis conquers Minrothad and Ierendi.
Thyatis has sway over the Sea of Dread (some minor rebels still cause
troubles in Ierendi at least, i would say), the Hinterlands (at war), Isle
of Dawn (Thothia still stands mighty), Ochalea and the Pearl Islands. Ok, by
now every major nation of the KW has understood that Thyatis is back on a
sort of mad delirium of omnipotence, and may think of conquering them in the
following years if it's not held at bay. Then what to do?
Well, what else if not another war? Eusebius was at peace with Minrothad,
but he assaulted and conquered it (treacherously) anyway. He also assured
the KW nations he would have not taken Ierendi after he took Minrothad, but
obviously he lied. The other nations cannot be so dumb to trust again the
words of Eusebius (THEY CAN'T, full stop!), so no peace treaty is possible:
only war remains (much like WW2 scenario). Now, if Thyatis suffered so much
casualties as you said, what are the chances that it wins the war when it's
attacked on different fronts (in the Isle of Dawn Thothia and NACE attack,
Ochalea and Pearl Islands rebel backed up by NACE -and don't tell me they
wouldn't!- in the Hinterlands the savage populations and Emerond
counterattack, in the main continent Thyatis will face Karameikos, Heldann,
maybe Ylaruam, Darokin and the Five Shires, and on the sea it will face the
Five Shires, Karameikos and small Daroikin forces)? I'd say that even if
Thyatis is a powerful nation, it will not stand more than six months against
a combined action of this kind: and then Eusebius will be ruined and his
empire shattered to pieces. That's why not even Thincol dared make such a
dramatic step (assaulting Minrothad and IErendi) during his reign: he knew
it will have brought his downfall...
PS: if your scenario is possible, then why should this one not be?
DM
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 12:08:10 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Holy Word
I've got a problem with this spell. In my (Italian) version, it says that
(don't mind the HD listed, only the effects):
under 5 HD: dead
from 6 to 8 HD: stunned 2-20 turns
from 9 to 12 HD: deafened 1-6 turns
13+: stunned 1-10 turns
Now, i think stunned is worse than deafened, so i ask: are the last two in
the wrong order? Also, how do you treat a deafened character? I usually give
him -4 in Dex and no bonuses for the weapon mastery (lack of balance is the
reason): this functions only with deaf characters, not with Silence spell
(this blocks only sounds, but doesn't affect the ear of the character).
thanx
DM
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 12:17:58 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Nightmare Lands and the Dreaming
On Fri, 19 Sep 1997, DM wrote:
> Haavard wrote:
>
> >DM wrote:
> > Did you read the Nightmare Lands (Ravenloft supplement)? It seems so :)
> > Anyway, that accessory put the Nightmare Lands in the Border Ethereal and
> > gave a good explanation about the nature of Dreamscapes: do you think it's
> > still valid with your own view?
>
> <<I dont have it. I did however read about it in Dragon and it is part
of my
> inspiration. Maybe you could give me some information on this. It could be
> changed to fit it, if those ideas are good.>>
>
<advertisement snipped>
> OK, advertising mode off ;)
Okay. I'll see what I can do about it :)
>
> <<In this version the Dreaming World is an outer plane, but I think it would
> be better to have it as a plane paralell to the ethereal. Also, as a friend
> of mine pointed out, Oneiros being an immortal with the Dreaming as his
> homeplane would make him far too powerful, since he'd get so much influence
> over peoples souls..
> However, hey may be kind of a janitor, fixing stuff and not really being the
> owner of the plane.>>
>
> This doesn't solve the problem, however: if it is an Outer Plane, someone
> will have to own it, don't you think? Besides, i think Oneiros is a nice
> figure to guard the dreams of our characters (i would have chosen Morpheus,
> but it happens to be allied with the baddies, so..). As for making it a
> Plane parallel to Ethereal, well, this way you would create an entire NEW
> plane in the Inner Planes! What a metaphysic discovery it would be! I think
> i'd better re-read that description about the Nightmare lands location in
> the Prime before answering this.. but just to give you my first impression,
> i think it's appropriate for the Dreamlands to be either another Dimension
> or a (Outer) Plane.
Morpheus is the Roman name for the Greek God called Oneiros so...
You can see Oneiros as good or bad, but He is in reality neither. He is
responsible for the creation of all dreams, good or bad. Although mush of
the dreams are created by the dreamer himself.
I Think the inner plane theory could work. I think the Dreaming should be
of a unique nature, like the Spirit World and Limbo.
> <<Normal dreamers cannot chose to leave their dreamscape, but it sometimes
> happens anyway. Dream Mages and other specifically trained can do so by
> making an int check. (or you could introduce a creming skill allowing a
> skill check to enter the heartlands..)>>
>
> In the Nightmare Lands, the Dreamscapes lies in the coastal perimeter (the
> Lands are an island) called the Ring of Dreams IIRC. If you venture inside
> the isle, you can find the Forest of Everchange, home of Morpheus and the
> Abber Nomads (true inhabitants of the Dreamlands!), or stumble in the city
> of Nod, where the rest of the Nightmare Court resides. Normally, only
> somebody with a certain power could escape a dreamscape and enter physically
> the Nightmare Lands, but it is also possible for some unlucky soul to be
> transported there from the Mists of Ravenloft (in this case you would
> require a special spell to go there, i surmise)
This is the way I've been seeing it too. The Heartlands are like the Ring
of Dreams that you describe.
> <<The Malfera are originaly from the Dreaming, but some have escaped into
> the Nightmare Dimension, gaining true existance. If a Nightmare creature
> escapes by other means, Oneiros can easily destroy them, but, not when they
> escape via this route.>>
>
> What do you mean with "gain true existance"? In the Nightmare Lands,
> everything is real, even the creatures of the dreams. Are you implying that
> the Dreamlands are a plane inhabited by fictional characters (beings)
> created and mantained by Oneiros to suite the desires of the dreamers?
> Intersting idea, though.. And does this mean that if these creatures try to
> escape to other realities, he can destroy them or they simply vanish from
> existence when they enter that reality (much like the holograms of Star
> Trek: Next Generation's Holodeck -remember that episode with Moriarty and
> the false Enterprise?)? Still, a fascinating scenario.
Fictional? hmm. Its a philosofical question. Oneiros has created them for
specific purposes. And If he wishes he can "uncreate" them at will. He
will do this if he learns that they have left the Dreaming. However if
they escape through the Dimension of Nightmares, he loses that power over
them. This is a serious problem for him, because he sees them as his
responsibility and they can bring a lot of misery to "Real" people.
Your Holodeck theory could also apply..
> <<Dreamers are the souls of sleeping people. They seem very confused, so
> communicating with them is hard.>>
>
> In this scenario, how would you use a Potion of Dreams then? Which could be
> its potential for let's say Dream Mages?
What is a Potion of Dreams?
I'm working on something on the Dream Mages too. I'll post it later.
> > Again, talking about Ravenloft NL, how do you insert the Nightmare Court in
> > your project (if u know about it) and which ties does it have to Oneiros?
>
> <<As mentioned I dont have that supplement, but If possible I'd loike to
> incorporate it. I'd say Oneiros is the true ruler. The Nightmare court may
> believe theyt have some power, but thats probably just because Oneiros lets
> them.>>
>
> Basing myself on what i read in NL boxed set, i would say that there is
> nobody more powerful than the Nigthmare Court (and the Nigthmare Man who
> rules it), which is somewhat a mirror of Ravenloft's Dark Powers. The
> Nightmare Court can extend its tentacles not only to Ravenloft dreamers, but
> to dreamers of every reality and plane, because (as it's hinted in the box)
> the NL touches (nearly) every reality (that's why i think it should be a
> dimension). You're saying here that Oneiros is the ruler of the Dreaming,
> but i would object to this fact. This is my theory (sort of a legend):
I think this Evil Dreamlords ruling everything fits better in Ravelloft
than in Mystara. See below:
>
> How Nightmares Were Created
<creation story snipped>
Its a nice story. However I will not use it. For one I'm trying to make
this different from the AD&D version, since the Mystara Multiverse is
different from the AD&D multiverse. Also this contradicts some major
elements of my concept.
My main inspiration is as you've probably guessed Neil Gaimans Sandman. I
see Oneiros as far above concepts of Godd and Evil. As Dreams are about
much more than these. Nightmares are not as I envision it Evil, but have
a purpose. They are composed of many things.
If we use the Nightmare Court I would think it's better to use them as
Nightmare creatures as the Malfera(described above)
In my version Oneiros is practically omnipotent in the Dreaming. As any
Hierarch would be on his homeplane.
Other inspiration sources are: Lovecraft, In Nomine,
Glorantha(Spirit/Heroplane)
> I hope i have not annoyed you too much. Let me know what you think about it, OK?
Offcourse not! :)
Okay so I've discarded some of your theories, but I'd like to hear more
coments from you.
Sorry about not replying earlier, but I had to meditate on the matter :)
Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves
Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves,
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V2 #147
*****************************
From: owner-mystara-digest@ (mystara-digest)
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #148
Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
Sender: owner-mystara-digest@
Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@
Precedence: bulk
mystara-digest Tuesday, September 23 1997 Volume 02 : Number 148
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 12:28:05 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, DM wrote:
> So, let's go on with your plans and let's see how the situation will be
> after Thyatis conquers Minrothad and Ierendi.
>
> Thyatis has sway over the Sea of Dread (some minor rebels still cause
> troubles in Ierendi at least, i would say), the Hinterlands (at war), Isle
> of Dawn (Thothia still stands mighty), Ochalea and the Pearl Islands. Ok, by
> now every major nation of the KW has understood that Thyatis is back on a
> sort of mad delirium of omnipotence, and may think of conquering them in the
> following years if it's not held at bay. Then what to do?
> Well, what else if not another war? Eusebius was at peace with Minrothad,
> but he assaulted and conquered it (treacherously) anyway. He also assured
> the KW nations he would have not taken Ierendi after he took Minrothad, but
> obviously he lied. The other nations cannot be so dumb to trust again the
> words of Eusebius (THEY CAN'T, full stop!), so no peace treaty is possible:
> only war remains (much like WW2 scenario). Now, if Thyatis suffered so much
> casualties as you said, what are the chances that it wins the war when it's
> attacked on different fronts (in the Isle of Dawn Thothia and NACE attack,
> Ochalea and Pearl Islands rebel backed up by NACE -and don't tell me they
> wouldn't!- in the Hinterlands the savage populations and Emerond
> counterattack, in the main continent Thyatis will face Karameikos, Heldann,
> maybe Ylaruam, Darokin and the Five Shires, and on the sea it will face the
> Five Shires, Karameikos and small Daroikin forces)? I'd say that even if
> Thyatis is a powerful nation, it will not stand more than six months against
> a combined action of this kind: and then Eusebius will be ruined and his
> empire shattered to pieces. That's why not even Thincol dared make such a
> dramatic step (assaulting Minrothad and IErendi) during his reign: he knew
> it will have brought his downfall...
Let me comment on this one:
I dont buy your "credibility theory." Breaking an alliance is part of the
Game. Yes, this means you can't fully trust anyone, but as long as the
alliance is an advantage for both sides, noone will break it. So, only a
fool trusts his ally. And I dont know id the rest of the Known World would
ally against Thyatis. Why wouldn't they rather help thyatis, have a
guarranteed vitory and be firends with the victor? Five Shires would
probably want better deals at sea. HEldann wouldn't join in the conflict
at any side, unless something special was gained on it, like invading
thyatis, which wouldn't IMHO be realistic. Darokin needs the support of
Thyatis to rebuild their Trade Empire. I dont think many Medeival nations
would join a war if there was nothing to gain on it. Like Land. Which is
the main meassure of power in those days. Even if they could fight off
Thyatis, they could never beat them at home. My opinion anyway.
Haavard.
Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves
Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves,
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 07:29:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Galeifel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Holy Word
In einer eMail vom 22.09.97 11:15:42, schreiben Sie:
<< I've got a problem with this spell. In my (Italian) version, it says that
(don't mind the HD listed, only the effects):
under 5 HD: dead
from 6 to 8 HD: stunned 2-20 turns
from 9 to 12 HD: deafened 1-6 turns
13+: stunned 1-10 turns
Now, i think stunned is worse than deafened, so i ask: are the last two in
the wrong order? Also, how do you treat a deafened character? I usually give
him -4 in Dex and no bonuses for the weapon mastery (lack of balance is the
reason): this functions only with deaf characters, not with Silence spell
(this blocks only sounds, but doesn't affect the ear of the character). >>
I assume you're talking about OD&D. Here are the answers:
Characters with 13+HD are only stunned for 1D10 ROUNDS, making it much
shorter than 1d6 TURNS for deafness.
As for the effects of deafness, I looked it up in the Rules cyclopedia
(p.150), where it says that the ONLY disadvantage a deaf character has,
is...well...deafness. No other negative effects except for not hearing
anything.
Hope this helps,
Garafaele Galeifel
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:32:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
In a message dated 97-09-22 05:51:08 EDT, you write:
<< So, let's go on with your plans and let's see how the situation will be
after Thyatis conquers Minrothad and Ierendi.>>
Should be interesting to compare against my own future scenarios.
<<Thyatis has sway over the Sea of Dread (some minor rebels still cause
troubles in Ierendi at least, i would say), the Hinterlands (at war), Isle
of Dawn (Thothia still stands mighty), Ochalea and the Pearl Islands. Ok, by
now every major nation of the KW has understood that Thyatis is back on a
sort of mad delirium of omnipotence, and may think of conquering them in the
following years if it's not held at bay. Then what to do?>>
First, you are correct. With the occupation and absorbtion of Ierendi and
Minrothad into the Thyatian fold, the rest of the KW realizes the intentions
of Thyatis. Bordering nations make defensive preparations. Diplomats "burn
the midnight oil" with their Thyatian counterparts. Nations mobilize their
military. All of this in preparation for futher offesives into the region
nations (WDL). Offensives that do not come to pass. Eusebius does want to
expand the Thyatian borders into these lands. However, he doesn't want to
right now. Any such further expansion, especially on Brun, are at least a
decade away.
<< Well, what else if not another war? Eusebius was at peace with
Minrothad,
but he assaulted and conquered it (treacherously) anyway. He also assured
the KW nations he would have not taken Ierendi after he took Minrothad, but
obviously he lied. The other nations cannot be so dumb to trust again the
words of Eusebius (THEY CAN'T, full stop!), so no peace treaty is possible:
only war remains (much like WW2 scenario). >>
Actually, I wish to avoid a global conflict concerning Thyatis or any other
single nation for that matter. I want to avoid a "KW vs. Thyatis" scenario.
This was done in WotI and I wish to not repeat such chaos. Besides, too much
warfare is bad for a game setting. I am not one to drastically alter the face
of Mystara. In fact, I mainly wish to "spice things up". The Ierendi buildup
following Minrothad's fall "prompts" Eusebius to seriously look upon them as
a potential threat. There is also the factor of several Merchant Princes that
fled to Ierendi. He fears that the exiled MPs will get Ierendi to launch an
assault on Minrothad to liberate it. These fears prove to be well founded.
Eusebius is forced to turn his forces to Ierendi a few years earlier than he
wanted.
The damage from breaking his word does haunt Eusebius. His relationship with
other nations is damaged. He does much to attempt to regain that trust.
Mostly it proves ineffective. Most nations deal with Thyatis with a mixture
of distrust and fear.
<<Now, if Thyatis suffered so much casualties as you said, what are the
chances that it wins the war when it's attacked on different fronts (in the
Isle of Dawn Thothia and NACE attack,Ochalea and Pearl Islands rebel backed
up by NACE -and don't tell me they wouldn't! in the Hinterlands the savage
populations and Emerond>>
They will cause trouble for the Thyatians. This is one of the factors that
keeps Thyatis limited on further offensives. These activities tie down
Cohorts that could be used elsewhere. In particular, the IoD which Eusebius
fears will be the area most likely that the NACE forces would attack.
As for NACE, I feel that will object strongly to the aggressions. However,
they will do very little officially. NACE is Alphatia and has been known to
inact a bit of conquest. As long as NACE itself and its allies are not
threatened it will rely on diplomacy to deal with Thyatis. It will be
cautious and make military preparations should such action present itself.
This is one of the reasons the NACE forces are so quick to come to the aid of
the gnomes of Serraine. NACE does lend assistance to rebel factions.
<< counterattack, in the main continent Thyatis will face Karameikos,
Heldann,
maybe Ylaruam, Darokin and the Five Shires, and on the sea it will face the
Five Shires, Karameikos and small Daroikin forces)? >>
WDL is a big threat to Thyatis's eastern borders. Eusebius in turn dispatches
Cohorts to the borders to repel such an attack (tying up more Cohorts). The
whole thing becomes a sort of Stalemate. You also have to remember that I
have Justin Karameikos in the role of Duke of Machetos. Being King Stefan's
son helps (though not guarantees) to keep Karameikos from assaulting through
that Duchy. This is just one of the political moves that Eusebius utilizes to
secure his borders.
Heldann is not a big threat. It basically has its hands full with domestic
problems (peasant revolts and loss of clerical magic) and is not wanting to
send troops that far away. The Heldann are also reluctant to get into the
fray. The conquest of Ierendi and Minrothad is something that they can relate
to. Given their philosophy, the invasions are acceptable. Most Knights can
appreciate the manner of conquest and approve. Then there is there own
commitment to the Ethengar and the coming assault on Glantri. I have the
Knights as being on bad terms with Glantri from events stemming from WotI.
They even blame their misfortunes on Glantri. They are well aware of
Ethengar's impending assault and commit infantry that the Khan really needs
to compliment his cavalry. This move is not out of any loyalty to the
Ethengar and their mutual treaty (PWA). It is a move to regain the support of
their patron Vanya.
I would say that Ylaruam is not going to intervene. As long as the "infidels"
do not cross into their lands, the Ylaruam are content to sit and wait. The
only real move militarily will be increased border patrols and an increase of
troop mobilization.
<<I'd say that even if Thyatis is a powerful nation, it will not stand more
than six months against a combined action of this kind: and then Eusebius
will be ruined and his empire shattered to pieces.>>
That is precisely why the big offensives halt after Ierendi. Sure there are
the Hinterland and Serriane assaults. The attack on Serraine is initiated
without Eusebius's approval. This becomes factual with the other nations as
Alphatian mages interrogate captured Thyatian officers. The Hinterland drive
is initiated by disturbances from rebel clansmen. The assaults are attempts
to quell these raiders.
Eusebius is a smart and cunning man. He is well aware of the Empire's
capabilities. He is also aware of just how far he can push the other nations.
I can assure you that Eusebius and Thyatis will survive the war.
<<That's why not even Thincol dared make such a dramatic step (assaulting
Minrothad and IErendi) during his reign: he knew it will have brought his
downfall...>>
One of the motivating factors for Eusebius striking at Minrothad was show
Thyatis that he is a better man than his father was. Minrothad filled
Eusebius's requirements for his goals concerning Thyatis. The fact that
Thincol never made such an attempt cemented the fate of Minrothad.
<<PS: if your scenario is possible, then why should this one not be? >>
True. Anything is possible. But given certain details with my own campaign,
mine tend to fit in better within the events of my own. I do recognize your
points for disagreements and welcome them. You do have to remember that these
are all based off of my own campaign and are therefore not compliant to the
standard order of events. Some events that lend themselves to these events go
back to WotI. Others are from alterations and additions to various events
portayed in the Almanacs.
As a result of these differences, I have two Mystaras. One adhering to the
Almanacs. The other utilizing the changes and additions I have initiated. The
standard Mystara is for reference and starting new campaigns. The customized
variant is for personal use.
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 18:12:36 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: [Mystara] Hin Clans
I've compiled a list of Hin Clans, their strongholds and the Shire they
are located in. If anyone had made up some more info on any of these,
feel free to share that info. This list will be on my Homepage when I can
get around to convert it into Html. enjoy:
Alehill
Wardlystone, Highshire
Barrowhin
Brookbank, Heartshire
Battlebur
Stillport, Seashire
Belnose
Leafkindle, Seashire
Boldnose
Mallowfern, Highshire
Brambleshun
Stillport,Seashire
Bristlebur
Deepmoss, Seashire
Cindertoes
Fishtickle bridge, Heartshire
Dappleglade
Shadowgate, Heartshire
Darkforest
Bramblerose, Southshire
Deepdell
Fishtickle bridge, Heartshire
Elintel
Sateeka, Heartshire
Evershade
Ringrise, Highshire
Fastbuck
Werescalot, Highshire
Fellwood
Ober’s Mimbur, Highshire
Fernscatter
Moon Hill, Seashire
Fernshiver
Longflask, Highshire
Flintfoot
Shireton, Shireton
Forestfar
Sateeka, Heartshire
Foxfollow
Flagonford, Southshire
Gladsing
Ober’s Mimbur, Highshire
Gullybuck
Fishtickle bridge, Heartshire
Hairytoes
Sateeka, Heartshire
Hardflask
Tothmer, Southshire
Heartwood
Shadowgate, Heartshire
Heatherford
Moon Hill, Seashire
Hoefurrow
Mallowfern, Highshire
Horsetail
Flagonford, Southshire
Idlewise
Tothmer, Southshire
Ilingall
Fishtickle bridge, Heartshire
Janthobell
Shireton, Shireton
Journeyfoot
Rollstone Keep, Highshire
Kittledance
Sateeka, Heartshire
Knackknell T
Tothmer, Southshire
Lamintar
Sateeka, Heartshire
Leafshine
Thantabbar, Seashire
Littleglade
Stillport, Seashire
Longbuck
Ober’s Mimbur, Highshire
Longquaff
Shireton, Shireton
Lowbranch
Ober’s Mimbur, Highshire
Mistwalker
Shadowgate, Heartshire
Mouldwalk
Leafkindle, Seashire
Nimblefoot
Tothmer, Southshire
Nixnoddle
Longflask, Highshire
Nogknock
Shireton, Shireton
Nudgestone
Tothmer, Southshire
Ogglemurk
Rattlecart, Southshire
Omblestaff
Flagonford, Southshire
Pipesmoke
Flagonford, Southshire
Plashdeep
Rundegos, Southshire
Plodmoor
Shireton, Shireton
Proudstride
Leafkindle, Seashire
Pytchplume
Fishtickle bridge, Heartshire
Quaeromore
Waymeet, Highshire
Quicksilver
Thantabbar, Seashire
Quiverjump
Wardlystone, Highshire
Quizzinglass
Burny, Seashire
Raggedleap
Longflask, Highshire
Rallytongue
Mallowfern, Highshire
Roaringbras
Ober’s Mimbur, Highshire
Roughleep
Shireton, Shireton
Rummelmore
Moon Hill, Seashire
Sharpstone
Ringrise, Highshire
Shindlewood
Wardlystone, Highshire
Slowleaf
Shireton, Shireton
Standfast
Thantabbar, Seashire
Stoneplow
Wardlystone, Highshire
Stormhin
Thantabbar, Seashire
Stormweather
Bramblerose, Southshire
Stoutbottle
Moon Hill, Seashire
Streamford
Deepmoss, Seashire
Summergarth
Fishtickle bridge, Heartshire
Swiftfeet
Aercruth, Highshire
Tallthicket
Brookbank, Heartshire
Tangleberry
Ober’s Mimbur, Highshire
Treeshadow
Deepmoss, Seashire
Trencherman
Bridle, Highshire
Trundlestump
Nobs boots, Highshire
Tumblebrook
Wardlystone, Highshire
Upplemiir
Rundegos, Southshire
Vailwash
Tothmer, Southshire
Vermsquash
Ringrise, Highshire
Vindlewalk
Burny, Seashire
Voluteye
Bramblerose, Southshire
Wanderfence
Rattlecart, Southshire
Wanderthorn
Ringrise, Highshire
Watcheye
Werescalot, Highshire
Whisperrun
Sateeka, Heartshire
Winegullet
Rundegos, Southshire
Woodgrot
Stillport, Seashire
Woodwort
Burny, Seashire
Xebel
Moon Hill, Seashire
Yollershield
Tothmer, Southshire
Zindlestone
Flagonford, Southshire
Zurdannach
Aercruth, Highshire
Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves
Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves,
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:45:37 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ideas
At 11.14 22/09/97 +0200, DM wrote:
>Anyway, there is no such problem in enchanting
>skyships, even using AD&D rules, because MUs in Mystara don't use Permanency
>to enchant aircraft: they have to cast 3 times the "FLY" or whatever spell
>they want to use to the ship section they want to enchant. They don't use
>Permanency, but it's far more expensive and long as a process.
And far more reliable too.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:28:31 +0000
From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
> DM wrote:
> So, let's go on with your plans and let's see how the situation will be
> after Thyatis conquers Minrothad and Ierendi.
> ...
> ...<snip>
>...
> The other nations cannot be so dumb to trust again the
> words of Eusebius (THEY CAN'T, full stop!), so no peace treaty is possible:
> only war remains (much like WW2 scenario). Now, if Thyatis suffered so much
> casualties as you said, what are the chances that it wins the war when it's
> attacked on different fronts (in the Isle of Dawn Thothia and NACE attack,
> Ochalea and Pearl Islands rebel backed up by NACE -and don't tell me they
> wouldn't!- in the Hinterlands the savage populations and Emerond
> counterattack, in the main continent Thyatis will face Karameikos, Heldann,
> maybe Ylaruam, Darokin and the Five Shires, and on the sea it will face the
> Five Shires, Karameikos and small Daroikin forces)? I'd say that even if
> Thyatis is a powerful nation, it will not stand more than six months against
> a combined action of this kind: and then Eusebius will be ruined and his
> empire shattered to pieces. That's why not even Thincol dared make such a
> dramatic step (assaulting Minrothad and IErendi) during his reign: he knew
> it will have brought his downfall...
I want to add another commet. I think the only reason for conuqering
Mnrothad would be their superior trading abilities and their good
economy. But after the war there would be no economy and I don´t
think that the Guilds would even deal with the Thyatian conquerors,
and in no way working FOR THEIR PROFIT.
Due to that there is NO reason to attack Minrothad because every
party can only lose in this conflict.
Wizzard
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:50:33 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Holy Word
At 07.29 22/09/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>As for the effects of deafness, I looked it up in the Rules cyclopedia
>(p.150), where it says that the ONLY disadvantage a deaf character has,
>is...well...deafness. No other negative effects except for not hearing
>anything.
There's more under the entry for "Revener" in the monsters chapter.
When a character is touched by a revener he loses one sense, losing hearing
make PC lose the ability to speak clearly and this may also ruin spellcasting.
I don't know if this may be applied to deafness too. Your opinion?
- --------------
Fabrizio Paoli
brizio@lunet.it
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
- --------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:55:26 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin
At 21.51 22/09/97 -0700, Patrick wrote:
>I agree that within Glantri Rad's following is made up of wizards.
>However, WotI implies that he DOES have clerical followers, so I'm inclined
>to use them.
Why does it implies that Rad has clerical followers?
Is that because it gives special abilities for Rad's clerics?
If this is the reason than I don't agree. You can give that special ability
to Rad's Sheperds (i.e. wizards). Also Rafiel is listed has granting a
special ability (enginnering BTW) to his clerics, but obviously he has no
clerics (in OD&D at least) so I give that skill to shamans.
BTW: why should there be Rad temples outside Glantri?
No one knows that Rad is really an immortal, even Glantrians doesn't think
he really exists.
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com
DM in City Of The Stars - PC in the Forgotten Realms
Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:22:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Magesmiley@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin
I'd like to point out that Rad's followers don't have to be clerics to be
considered followers.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 97 21:26:22 EDT
From: Geoff Gander <ggander@CHAT.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] A list survey
Well, here's my answer to the survey:
>
Name: Geoff Gander
E-Mail: ganderg@tc.gc.ca
From: North Bay, Ont. Canada
Interests: Mystara - specifically Davania, the Heldannic Freeholds, the
Savage Coast, IoD, Thyatis, Karameikos, and Darokin.
Other Interests: Computer games, sci-fi/fantasy, history, and working
on my own RPG
Age:23 (15 Sept. 1974)
Profession: Casual worker in the Public Service, hope to get a career :-)
Website: http://www.chat.carleton.ca/~mqualizz - or just look up Geoff's
Dimensional Vortex, be warned - it's in flux right now!
Marital Status: Single
Started Playing RPGs: 1984 - Friend introduced me to D&D. Never looked
back since then, but I also play/GM Paranoia, Call of Cthulhu
First Played D&D: 1984. Been DMing since 1990 or so, always on Mystara.
Campaign Playing: D&D: I use all the Gazetteers as well as the RC. My
players are currently in Darokin on the elusive trail of uncovering the
mysteries of Blackmoor, while unknowingly being pursued by the minions of
Hule, who want the knowledge for themselves...
Current Projects: In my spare time I work on a BIG colour hex map of
Davania - all composed of 8.5x11 sheets of hex paper, all terrain features
fitting together just so (@#^%@#^%!! Frustrating, but rewarding). So far
I've got the entire northern coast of Davania as far south as the Adakkian
Sound and the Isle of Cestia mapped, as well as a large portion of the
Izondian Desert. I am also working on "dead" nations. You may have read
my Varellyan timeline - I am also working on details for the land of
Lhomarr and Y'hegg-T'uhath - check out Shawn Stanley's site for details!!!
>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Geoff Gander, BA 97
Studentus Emeritus Ad Nauseam
Carleton University
General wanderer by principle, adventurer by profession
Email address: au998@freenet.carleton.ca/ganderg@tc.gc.ca
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:57:23 EDT
From: Neal Daskal <URND@MARISTC.MARIST.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Some ?
>2.Has anyone had any sucess running X10 during Wrath, as I am thinking
>of trying to find a copy to use in my upcoming campaign?
Yup. It fit beautifully.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:50:08 +0100
From: "Leroy Van Camp III" <malacoda@lesbois.com>
Subject: [Mystara] [ADMIN] More On the Lists's Uncertain Future
Mystarans,
Just a bit more information here on what is going on with the
list. It seems Illuminati Online is going to send out a "fake" bill
showing what a list admin would have to pay for their current
level of subscription. This will be the big decision moment,
when I see if it will be financially feasible to keep the list going.
If I do keep it, I see one change: the occasional audit. All
this would be is me sending out e-mail to every list member
twice or three times a year asking if they still wish to be on the
list. This may sound wierd, even annoying, but there are
actually a fair number of addresses subscribed that are
actually dead. In all, it should be no big deal.
I want to thank those who responded with possible answers
to our problem. Once I get the "fake" bill, and have to make a
decision, I will begin to explore these.
Thanks for your patience.
When Isent the original announcement, I gotgot to send it with
a subject header, so some people may have just deleted it
without reading it, so I am adding it to the end of this post.
I will let you all know as soon as I hear anything.
Leroy Van Camp III
malacoda@lesbois.com
owner-mystara-l@io.com
"You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle."
MST3K
[original message]
Mystarans,
I hate to bear possible bad news, but here goes...
Just today I have learned that Illuminati Online, the ISP that hosts
the Mystara Mailing List will begin charging its subscribers for this
service; up til this point mailing listss were a free service to members.
At this point the price is still uncertain, but may range as high as
$25
extra dollars a month, above and beyond what I already pay in user
fees. It looks like it will be based on the number of subscribers
a list has.
It is my intention ot keep this list going as long as financially
feasible for myself. But, if the price increase goes as high as an extra
25 bucks, I will be forced to drop my subscription to Illuminati Online.
I assure you I will keep all posted as this develops.
Leroy Van Camp III
malacoda@lesbois.com
owner-mystara-l@io.com
"You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle."
MST3K
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:59:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Shepherds of Rad (was Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin)
I remember that I was once planning to write up something on those
Shepherds of Rad. I figured that they should be able to learn Priest
spells, but they would learn them through Wizardly methods -- in a
very similar manner to Elven Treekeepers. At various points I toyed
with two different approaches:
1) Shepherds of Rad could learn Priest spells as Wizard spells of two
levels higher. This would give them "Cure Light Wounds" at fifth level.
The problem with this approach is that it would give them access to
basic healing a bit late and eventually give them access to all Priestly
magic -- a bit too powerful for what should be relatively weak characters.
2) Shepherds of Rad would follow the Wizard spell progression but would
interpret it slightly differently, as follows:
Spell Level 1 = Wizard 1
Spell Level 2 = Priest 1
Spell Level 3 = Wizard 2
Spell Level 4 = Priest 2
Spell Level 5 = Wizard 3
Spell Level 6 = Priest 3
Spell Level 7 = Wizard 4
Spell Level 8 = Priest 4
Spell Level 9 = Wizard 5
I prefer this approach for a number of reasons:
1) The "Cure Light Wounds" spell is available to 3d level Shepherds -- a mere
5000 XP is required to reach that level. This compares favorably with the
1500
XP that an OD&D Cleric is required to earn to gain similar ability. Even in
an
AD&D campaign a Glantrian party with a Shepherd of sufficient level would be
viable.
2) Shepherds would have a tough time earning "noble" status in Glantri.
Since
they do not have access to 5th level Wizard spells until they reach either
18th
level (AD&D) or 21st level (OD&D), they are at a considerable disadvantage
relative to other Wizards. Of course, when the time finally comes that they
can take the graduation exam at the Great School of Magic, they will have
an easier time at the test. But just qualifying to take the test is their
challenge.
3) Shepherds cannot raise the dead, as they never gain access to 5th level
Priests spells or 6th level Wizard spells. So in Glantri, the dead generally
stay dead. They may be reincarnated by normal Mages, but of course
reincarnated characters lose whatever social position they may have held
previously.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 21:31:59 -0700
From: "Dennis" <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Some ? X10 advice
> >2.Has anyone had any sucess running X10 during Wrath, as I am thinking
> >of trying to find a copy to use in my upcoming campaign?
>
> Yup. It fit beautifully.
There are a few things that need to be reworked, but it works very well
overall. However, if you plan to play in Western Brun in the future, I
advise you not to let the Master of Hule be defeated.
Your biggest problem, however, will probably be finding a copy of the
module. Make sure that it contains the counters and the map before you lay
down your money (although it is actually a pretty good module even without
these things).
Patrick
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 21:24:35 -0700
From: "Dennis" <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin
> Why does it implies that Rad has clerical followers?
> Is that because it gives special abilities for Rad's clerics?
> If this is the reason than I don't agree. You can give that special
ability
> to Rad's Sheperds (i.e. wizards). Also Rafiel is listed has granting a
> special ability (enginnering BTW) to his clerics, but obviously he has no
> clerics (in OD&D at least) so I give that skill to shamans.
I believe that Rad has clerics because there is nothing whatsoever to
suggest that he doesn't, but rather WotI suggests that he does by providing
special abilities and alignments for clerics. Certainly this is not proof,
but IMO it is reasonably strong evidence that he does.
> BTW: why should there be Rad temples outside Glantri?
> No one knows that Rad is really an immortal, even Glantrians doesn't
think
> he really exists.
As I said in my previous post, the only temple of Rad outside of Glantri
IMC is in Corunglain, and that caters to Glantrian citizens who don't want
to break the law, but rather skirt it.
Patrick
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 01:01:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: DUFFISGOD@aol.com
Subject: [Mystara] Re: Shepherds of Rad
interesting. i did it the opposite. allowing the shepards access to wizardly
magc. i said that since rad is the immortal of the radiance he is the deiti
of magic(being as the radiance is connected directly to the sphere of energy
which is the source of magic). I also allowed this ability to the 3 other
immortals who ascended through the radiance.i allowed them access at 1 level
higher( ex. magic missile as a second level spell) therfore they could cast
up to 4th level spells. i got the idea from the fact that shamans of rafiel
can cast fireball.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:07:48 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Aleksei Andrievski <k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi>
Subject: [Mystara] Karameikos box
Hello,
I would like to know if the Karameikos: KoA boxed set is worth tracking
down - is there any extremely valuable information in it, any major
changes from GAZ1 (apart from Stephan being King) and the almanacs that I
*have* to know in order to run my campaign?
***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord
** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but
** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us."
** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages,
** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers."
** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread."
*****************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:43:27 +0800
From: Glenn Butcher <knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac and Ylaruam
Alex295@aol.com rambled (Alex295@aol.com):
> In a message dated 97-09-22 05:51:08 EDT, you write:
>
[Various Snipped]
> The damage from breaking his word does haunt Eusebius. His relationship with
> other nations is damaged. He does much to attempt to regain that trust.
> Mostly it proves ineffective. Most nations deal with Thyatis with a mixture
> of distrust and fear.
>
..and what are they going to do about it? Nothing by the looks.
> <<Now, if Thyatis suffered so much casualties as you said, what are the
> chances that it wins the war when it's attacked on different fronts (in the
> Isle of Dawn Thothia and NACE attack,Ochalea and Pearl Islands rebel backed
> up by NACE -and don't tell me they wouldn't! in the Hinterlands the savage
> populations and Emerond>>
>
> They will cause trouble for the Thyatians. This is one of the factors that
> keeps Thyatis limited on further offensives. These activities tie down
> Cohorts that could be used elsewhere. In particular, the IoD which Eusebius
> fears will be the area most likely that the NACE forces would attack.
> As for NACE, I feel that will object strongly to the aggressions. However,
> they will do very little officially. NACE is Alphatia and has been known to
> inact a bit of conquest. As long as NACE itself and its allies are not
> threatened it will rely on diplomacy to deal with Thyatis. It will be
> cautious and make military preparations should such action present itself.
> This is one of the reasons the NACE forces are so quick to come to the aid of
> the gnomes of Serraine. NACE does lend assistance to rebel factions.
>
Isn't it likely that the WDL is going to realise the weakened state of the
Thyatians? They are going to be stretched mighty thin. Regaining Ierendi
or Minthrothad could yield great benefits economically from the returned
government, with special trade agreements etc. It would be easy to
convince the populace of potential Thytian agressiveness too. Diplomatic
measures could achieve good results here, like cutting trade with
Thyatis.
Relatively, NACE is in a stronger position now, as it is likely that
Thyatis will build up quicker from it's conquered territories. Attacking
the eastern side of Thyatis would gain brownie points from Minthrothad,
Ierendi and the WDL, all for gaining territory for NACE.
> << counterattack, in the main continent Thyatis will face Karameikos,
> Heldann,
> maybe Ylaruam, Darokin and the Five Shires, and on the sea it will face the
> Five Shires, Karameikos and small Daroikin forces)? >>
>
> I would say that Ylaruam is not going to intervene. As long as the "infidels"
> do not cross into their lands, the Ylaruam are content to sit and wait. The
> only real move militarily will be increased border patrols and an increase of
> troop mobilization.
>
Given the events with the Ylari in WotI, the Ylari may not sit and wait.
They have attacked already. While Thyatis could guard that border as
well, this does mean they have to guard every border against possible
agression.
>
> Eusebius is a smart and cunning man. He is well aware of the Empire's
> capabilities. He is also aware of just how far he can push the other nations.
> I can assure you that Eusebius and Thyatis will survive the war.
>
At the moment it seems that the other nations are aware that Thyatis is
stretched, and is regaining it's strength. Meanwhile they have to wary of
being attacked themselves. Now is the best time to attack Thyatis with
ecomonic or military might. Economic sanctions have the advantage of not
making enemies like killing does.
While Eusebius may be smart, the other leaders are not unintelligent
either.
Glenn
- --
Glenn Butcher
mailto:knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au | "I take off all my magic, and
finger -l for PGP public key | never, ever use any artifact
http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/ | again."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:51:51 +0800
From: Glenn Butcher <knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Ideas
Shin Chyang Yu rambled (scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu):
> Jay Herrington pontificated:
> >
> > 2. In Alphatia they have devised a permanency spell that only
> > drains constitution points temporarily, or maybe not at all. I don't
> > know how to explain their many huge magic items.
>
> Perhaps there could be some cleric spell that restore Con lost due
> to spell casting? Similar to the restore level from energy drain?
>
IMC I have certain types of mages not lose any con points when they
enchant items. Such mages of course tend to be sedentary and not
adventerous types. Unfortunately they also don't tend to make the types
of items that adventurers want either. Anyway, this allows the Alphatians
the ability to make lots of big flying ships, without giving any more
power into the hands of the PC's.
- --
Glenn Butcher
mailto:knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au | "We have plenty of time to
finger -l for PGP public key | kill ourselves."
http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/ |
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:09:14 +0800
From: Glenn Butcher <knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortal campaign
Aleksei Andrievski rambled (k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi):
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm just interested, has anyone ever run an immortal campaign? Did you
> like it? How did it feel?
>
I have never run an immotal campaign in Mystara, but I do have two
characters who are currently played as immortals in other worlds.
One is Linessa, a former partial avatar of the god of chaos. Now she
considers him an enemy. In her pocket multiverse, she is the goddess of
magic.
The other is Lynard (from my signatures). He very recently achieved
immortality (last session in fact :) and will be the patron of the order
of the seekers of the sun, a preexisting information gathering group.
One thing I noticed is that there is a tendacy for eveyone to go off by
themselves. There is less reason to stick together, as fighting becomes
less of an issue. ("Why do we need a cleric anyway? We can all cast those
spells. Why do I need the rest of you for that matter? I can do most of
what you can do anyway.")
The latter isn't so much of a problem in the Lynard campaign, since it
only has one player (me) (although he is unwilling to give up on his
mortal friends just yet). In the Linessa campaign, we went to mostly
email as we discussed one character who we thought was going to get us
all killed, and how we should kill him first. A few characters of that
group did work together quite well, but they were the ones with similiar
interests (the god of technology and the goddess of magic strangely).
Glenn
- --
knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au | "You're not very religious are you"
glennb@ichr.uwa.edu.au | Spoken by the goddess Kylara to
finger -l for pgp key | Lynard, her high priest
http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:27:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
In a message dated 97-09-22 18:02:31 EDT, you write:
<< I want to add another commet. I think the only reason for conuqering
Mnrothad would be their superior trading abilities and their good
economy. But after the war there would be no economy and I don´t
think that the Guilds would even deal with the Thyatian conquerors,
and in no way working FOR THEIR PROFIT.
Due to that there is NO reason to attack Minrothad because every
party can only lose in this conflict.
Wizzard >>
Originally, I had Eusebius wanting to acquire Minrothad in part for both its
trade organization and tribute. However, the surrender terms alter these a
tad. Minrothad will retain complete control of its trade organizations.
Minrothad will in turn pay a percentage on trade goods (both import and
export) as well as revenue gained while acting as "middle men".
The Minrothad government disolves as officially controlling the land. The
various Guild Heads answer directly to a Thyatian appointed official acting
as Head Guildsman/Governor. This was negotiated by the DDC, this was the
system of government Eusebius settled on before they arrived. The DDC thinks
they acheived a diplomatic victory. The following year, the DDC is shocked
when they are snubbed by Thyatis when they attempt to repeat the
negotiations.
The generous terms are generous due to two seperate deals made with the
demihuman (minus halflings on Open Island). In short, Eusebius dispatches
Thyatian Elves and Dwarves to "persuade their cousins" that the Thyatians
would be good for Minrothad. With the human cities occupied or on verge of
surrender, the demihumans take a serious look at their options. They could
resist, but reports of new troop arrivals (really supply ships) on Trader
Island makes that unfavorable. Then there are the growing number of Thyatian
vessels off their respective islands (real but not an invasion force, ships
are really intended to blockade the islands until troops can be freed up.)
Consoling themselves that trade will soon continue, they agree to a cease
fire and prepare for terms of surrender negotiations.
The damage to Minrothad from the invasion is minor. Scars of war are mainly
on the walls of cities on Trader Island. Most war damage to the Cities is
quickly repaired by the Thyatians. This is not out of friendliness, but out
of fear from an assault from Ierendi. Given free reign concerning trade, the
Minrothadians get the economy back on track quickly. Their speed even
impresses the Thyatian officials that recognize and respect the efficiency
displayed by the Guilds.
Alex
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V2 #148
*****************************
From: owner-mystara-digest@ (mystara-digest)
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #149
Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
Sender: owner-mystara-digest@
Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@
Precedence: bulk
mystara-digest Wednesday, September 24 1997 Volume 02 : Number 149
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:50:43 EDT
From: Neal Daskal <URND@MARISTC.MARIST.EDU>
Subject: Re[2]: [Mystara] Some ? X10 advice
> Make sure that it contains the counters and the map before you lay
>down your money out
Or lobby TSR (oops almost used the non-PC name with the dollar sign
in it :) ) to let me distribute the computer game I wrote to do the
War Machine phase of the module.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:52:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alex295@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac and Ylaruam
In a message dated 97-09-23 05:48:52 EDT, Glenn responds to my response to a
response to someone else who responded to something stemming back to the
original "Almanac" post:
<< > The damage from breaking his word does haunt Eusebius. His relationship
with
> other nations is damaged. He does much to attempt to regain that trust.
> Mostly it proves ineffective. Most nations deal with Thyatis with a
mixture
> of distrust and fear.
>
>...and what are they going to do about it? Nothing by the looks. >>
Yes and no. NACE and the WDL feel compelled to do something but are split as
to what to do exactly. Eusebius dispatches multiple messages of reassurances
of no pending military action into NACE and WDL lands. This does little to
calm the nations. With trade resuming a semblence of normality, tempers
lower. Fears of further Thyatian offensives also subside as the Thyatian
Forces go into a defensive mode and assume an occupational role.
Eusebius is counting on the age old use of Time to heal the wounds caused by
his Empire's agression. He knows that within a few years the level of
distrust will fall. To help this along he uses his existing forces to
consolidate his gains and secure the borders. He does continue to build up
his forces but at a slower rate. Any further offensives are years off.
> <<Now, if Thyatis suffered so much casualties as you said, what are the
> chances that it wins the war when it's attacked on different fronts (in
the
> Isle of Dawn Thothia and NACE attack,Ochalea and Pearl Islands rebel
backed
> up by NACE -and don't tell me they wouldn't! in the Hinterlands the savage
> populations and Emerond>>
>
> They will cause trouble for the Thyatians. This is one of the factors that
> keeps Thyatis limited on further offensives. These activities tie down
> Cohorts that could be used elsewhere. In particular, the IoD which
Eusebius
> fears will be the area most likely that the NACE forces would attack.
> As for NACE, I feel that will object strongly to the aggressions. However,
> they will do very little officially. NACE is Alphatia and has been known
to
> inact a bit of conquest. As long as NACE itself and its allies are not
> threatened it will rely on diplomacy to deal with Thyatis. It will be
> cautious and make military preparations should such action present itself.
> This is one of the reasons the NACE forces are so quick to come to the aid
of
> the gnomes of Serraine. NACE does lend assistance to rebel factions.
>
>Isn't it likely that the WDL is going to realise the weakened state of the
>Thyatians? They are going to be stretched mighty thin. Regaining Ierendi
>or Minthrothad could yield great benefits economically from the returned
>government, with special trade agreements etc. It would be easy to
>convince the populace of potential Thytian agressiveness too. Diplomatic
>measures could achieve good results here, like cutting trade with
>Thyatis.>>
Once again, yes and no. WDL as well as NACE have some idea as to the losses
Thyatis has taken in the Ierendi offensive. This has been calculated from
their own respective commanders and is based on opinion and wargames. As
such, their estimates fall short of the actual casualties taken by the
Thyatians. But tales of recruitment in the Empire to refill the ranks give
evidence as to Thyatis's abilty to make up for any shortfalls.
Militarily the WDL and NACE are unsure about launching offensives to liberate
the two island nations. Such a venture would be expensive both in manpower,
revenue, and blood. And since trade is resuming seemingly uneffected with
Ierendi and Minrothad, such intervention seems less likely. In fact, reports
from Minrothad show that the Guilds have become quite adept while under
Imperial rule. Several have even shown appreciation for Thyatian rule. At
first this positive outlook is viewed with suspition, with most nations
seeing it as Thyatian induced manipulation. However, it becomes justified as
Minrothad forms a Fleet and Cohort under the Thyatian banner.
As for any trade embargos against Thyatis, this seems unlikely. If the other
nations were to enact trade embargos against Thyatis, it would hurt them just
as bad. Since Minrothad and Ierendi are now under the Thyatian Standard, such
economic blocks would also affect them. Let's face it they need the trade
with and through Minrothad. Without the Guilds' nations would be harmed
economically as they lose markets for their own goods. On the other hand,
Minrothad has a substantial market with the rest of the Thyatian Empire and
would not be drastically affected. Any such embargo would fail as the
repercussions would fall back on the nations.
>Relatively, NACE is in a stronger position now, as it is likely that
>Thyatis will build up quicker from it's conquered territories. Attacking
>the eastern side of Thyatis would gain brownie points from Minthrothad,
>Ierendi and the WDL, all for gaining territory for NACE.>>
NACE is pretty well off militarily. However, I feel its strength is in
defense. With its territories spread out yet with substantial populations
that are self supporting, complete defeat is improbable. To amass a striking
force to venture too far from NACE lands, would greatly weaken its defensive
capabilities. Basically, the same thing goes for the WDL.
> << counterattack, in the main continent Thyatis will face Karameikos,
> Heldann,
> maybe Ylaruam, Darokin and the Five Shires, and on the sea it will face
the
> Five Shires, Karameikos and small Daroikin forces)? >>
>
> <<I would say that Ylaruam is not going to intervene. As long as the
"infidels"
> do not cross into their lands, the Ylaruam are content to sit and wait.
The
> only real move militarily will be increased border patrols and an increase
of
> troop mobilization.>>
>
>Given the events with the Ylari in WotI, the Ylari may not sit and wait.
>They have attacked already. While Thyatis could guard that border as
>well, this does mean they have to guard every border against possible
>agression. >>
I was going more with the events described in 1014 Almanac. Ylaruam with the
Kin faction in control would go into a state of isolation. Any contact with
the "infidel nations" would be limited and be conducted only with neighboring
nations such as Thyatis. Any sympathies felt in Ylaruam for Minrothad/Ierendi
would be in the recently acquired Emirate of Selenica when the Shadow Elves
cut it off from the rest of Darokin (IMC). This Emirate is mostly exiled
Precepter supporters and Darokinians with Ylaruam bloodlines (considered
corrupted infidels). As such their opinions are not taken seriously by the
Kin rulers. And given their tolerated presence (by Al-Kalim devine
intervention) they are in no position to offer aid or press the matter.
>
> Eusebius is a smart and cunning man. He is well aware of the Empire's
> capabilities. He is also aware of just how far he can push the other
nations.
> I can assure you that Eusebius and Thyatis will survive the war.
>
At the moment it seems that the other nations are aware that Thyatis is
stretched, and is regaining it's strength. Meanwhile they have to wary of
being attacked themselves. Now is the best time to attack Thyatis with
ecomonic or military might. Economic sanctions have the advantage of not
making enemies like killing does.>>
They are aware of Thyatis's strength to a degree. They still see Thyatis as a
formidable force. Military option is unikely. Where do you strike? Minrothad
who seems to like the Thyatians? Ierendi, who is now heavily defended and not
economically important to NACE and WDL? In RW terms, I really do not see the
US invading Cuba for its beaches.
The economic strikes are an option. But like I said above, they would be
ineffective and short lived. Minrothad has too much market potential with the
rest of Thyatis. While the WDL and NACE nations need Minrothad to disperse
their own goods.
<<While Eusebius may be smart, the other leaders are not unintelligent
either. >>
True they have just as much grey matter as he. However, they are not in the
same situation as Eusebius is. They also have different domestic situations.
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:40:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Galeifel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin
In einer eMail vom 23.09.97 00:00:24, schreiben Sie:
<< Why does it implies that Rad has clerical followers? >>
There are some people who believe that Gareth is Rad. I don't, but if you
support this theory...
Garafaele Galeifel
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:41:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Galeifel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin
In einer eMail vom 23.09.97 00:00:24, schreiben Sie:
<< Why does it implies that Rad has clerical followers? >>
There are some people who believe that Gareth is Rad. I don't, but if you
support this theory...
Garafaele Galeifel
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:41:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Galeifel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Karameikos box
In einer eMail vom 23.09.97 10:12:56, schreiben Sie:
<< Hello,
I would like to know if the Karameikos: KoA boxed set is worth tracking
down - is there any extremely valuable information in it, any major
changes from GAZ1 (apart from Stephan being King) and the almanacs that I
*have* to know in order to run my campaign?
>>
Well it's mostly (sometimes exactly) copied from Gaz1. Some new info can be
found in JA. Some minor nobles are detailed, which weren't mentioned in GAZ1.
Milo Korrigan is established as temporary ruler of the Barony of Halag.
That's about it.
Garafaele Galeifel
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:36:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Galeifel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Shepherds of Rad
In einer eMail vom 23.09.97 06:31:13, schreiben Sie:
<< interesting. i did it the opposite. allowing the shepards access to
wizardly
magc. i said that since rad is the immortal of the radiance he is the deiti
of magic(being as the radiance is connected directly to the sphere of energy
which is the source of magic). I also allowed this ability to the 3
other
immortals who ascended through the radiance.i allowed them access at 1 level
higher( ex. magic missile as a second level spell) therfore they could cast
up to 4th level spells. i got the idea from the fact that shamans of rafiel
can cast fireball.
>>
Who do you mean by the other immortals who ascended through the radiance? I
always thought Rad was the only one.
Garafaele Galeifel
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 19:24:33 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Holy Word
At 22.50 22/09/97 +0200, Brizio wrote:
>There's more under the entry for "Revener" in the monsters chapter.
>When a character is touched by a revener he loses one sense, losing hearing
>make PC lose the ability to speak clearly and this may also ruin spellcasting.
>I don't know if this may be applied to deafness too. Your opinion?
Yes, i didn't remember. I normally give -4 to Dex to deafened characters,
along with 50% of failure when casting a spell and no bonuses for weapon
proficiencies.
Note: Holy Word has not the same effect of a Silence spell, cause it affect
the ear and not the surrounding space.
DM
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 19:22:25 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Holy Word
At 07.29 22/09/97 -0400, Galeifel wrote:
>Characters with 13+HD are only stunned for 1D10 ROUNDS, making it much
>shorter than 1d6 TURNS for deafness.
>
>As for the effects of deafness, I looked it up in the Rules cyclopedia
>(p.150), where it says that the ONLY disadvantage a deaf character has,
>is...well...deafness. No other negative effects except for not hearing
>anything.
>
So, this way the spell could be far more disturbing for characters of level
13+ than for characters of level 8-13 (after all, a stunned character cannot
fight and has a penalty of -4 on CA and ST, whereas a deafened character can
do everything)? Seems unclear...
DM
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 19:38:58 +0200
From: DM <dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it>
Subject: [Mystara] Church of Darokin detailed
I posted these mail three days ago but apparently they didn't go thru (i
haven't received it yet, at least). I'll send them now again as a unique
letter: if u already has read it, sorry. If you do have comments, they're
welcome. :)
Patrick wrote:
<<IMHO, there is no need to make an organized Church of Darokin comparable
to the Church of Karameikos, but what you ahve written seems to be pretty
good if you feel the need for such a church. Also, WotI and/or one or more
of the PWAs states that Khoronus has a following in Darokin. Perhaps he
should be another addition to the pantheon.>>
Mmmh.. could be. The way i envisioned the Church of Darokin is something
that could appeal to every darokinian citizen. This doesn't mean (i want to
remark it) that this is Darokin's state church, but only that it draws to
most of the population. IMC Darokin is very similar to USA, full of faiths
(both minor and major). Needless to say, you can find almost every Immortal
worshipped in the Known World in the Church District of Darokin City, even
the shadier ones (they're accepted provided they don't perform rituals that
go against the laws, as GAZ11 explains).
<<The following is IMC, so maybe you don't even want to see it, but... IMC,
there are a number of churches (mostly) peacefully competing and coexisting.
Usually there will be clerics from different orders in towns large enough to
support several clerics. They will generally engage in petty competition,
but they share the same general goals of prosperity and protection for the
villages. At any rate, Darokin should have a very ecclectic pantheon.>>
That's exactly the way i painted Darokin IMC: the most advanced, democratic
and liberal state in the KW (and that's why half of my PCs own a house in
Darokin! One of them has just bought an inn near the docks!). Basically i
think that every church has at least one "mission" in Darokin's territory,
but this doesn't mean that the Church of Darokin worships ALL of these
Immortals (it would not last much if it put side to side a cleric of Koryis
and one of Thor, for example). The Church of Darokin worships those
immortals that most embodies the "spirit of the nation", a spirit of
freedom, sacrifice, equality and endurance against the adversities.
Asterius, Ixion, Koryis, the Twelve Watchers are the ones i think fit this
role, but i would also add Valerias and Khoronus as well. Hope i've made
myself clear.
*************
Haavard wrote:
> Asterius (Head): Patron of Trade
> Koryis: Patron of Peace and Prosperity
> Ixion: Patron of Law and Honesty
> The Twelve Watchers: Patrons of Crafts and Work
> Valerias: Patroness of Love and Charity
<<How does Koryis fit into this. Isn't that an Ochaelan Immortal. Not that
the patron of Peace and Prosperity wouln'd be popular in Darokin.>>
Well, basically since Darokin is a "land of leftovers" (no offense
darokinians on line: it's what you call yourselves after all) :), i thought
that the Church of Darokin should reflect this mishmash of cultures and
faiths, and so i picked up some faiths that would have fit well in Darokin
and organized them into a church, considering also the fact that there had
not to be rivalries between the associated Immortals.
Asterius was then an obvious choice: consider that even if he worked for
Rad, the Church of Darokin was founded before WotI. Also he didn't really
much "oppose" Ixion: he was more a sort of spy and a messenger/negotiator,
so i guessed his relationship with Ixion has not deteriorated that much.
Besides, in the entry for Asterius in WotI, it says that he's a close friend
of Ixion (and this is another strange thing about WotI: if he and Ixion were
friends, why did he side with Rad? And if Vanya and Rathanos were enemies,
why did they became allies to aid Rad?). I felt Ixion's faith had probably
been brought to Darokin by Alphatians, Ethengarians (as Tubak) and fleeing
Ispans who chose to settle in Darokin instead of going to the Savage Coast.
The Twelve Watchers were alredy known and worshipped in Darokin by all the
workers (much licke Asterius) and Koryis was probably one of the last
addition, brought by Alphatian (Koryis is an Alphatian deity in origin) or
Ochalean wandering priests who came to Darokin at the beginning of the X
century. If we want to add Valerias and Khoronus, this is not difficult to
do, since she is the worldwide Patroness of Love and he the Patron of Wisdom
and Fair Rulership. So they could have been already worshipped in Darokin
like Asterius was. All in all, it seems this is a good solution.
<<some Q's on the top of my head..
Would you say the CoD is a powerful organization? Is it Hierarchic? Who is
the head? What kinda clothes do their priests wear? Is it an old
organization? Also I'd like to hear some concepts of the faith. World view,
afterlife, meaning of life, metaphysics and stuff.>>
Wow, how many questions! Let's try to answer one question at the time:
1. Church of Darokin is a young church much like that of Karameikos. I
suppose it dates back to the X century, probably AC 930, and mainly for two
reasons.
First of all, the only detailed Patriarch of the Church is Grindolf the
White (GAZ5) who is also Ambassador of Darokin in Alfheim. His age is not
revealed, but since he's a 12th level cleric, an Ambassador and a Patriarch,
i suppose he should be fairly experienced of the ways of the world, so i
give him 50 years in AC 1000. Supposing he's become a cleric at the age of
16 and a diplomat at the age of 20, this gives him almost 30 years to train
and become Ambassador and Patriarch: a reasonable amount of time IMO. This
means the Church cannot have been founded after AC 966.
Also, since Ispans (who brought Ixion to Darokin as i've speculated) fled
Thyatis around AC 900, the Church cannot be older than AC 900. I've chosen
AC 930 because it seems halfway between the two borders.
2. Church of Darokin is not the most powerful church of the KW, nor it is
that much widespread (aside from Darokin itself), mainly because it is a
church founded FOR the Darokinians. It is surely the most important in
Darokin, however.
3. The Head of the Church's Pantheon is Asterius, and the Ring of Darokin is
opened to every Immortal who has a particular love for that country (the
Twelve Watchers are only Initiate but they/he is a distinguished member as
his other Hierarch collegues).
4. The High Patriarch of the Church is an old wizened man in his eighties
named Simon Stone, who happens to be also the founder of the Church. He is a
cleric of Asterius who felt the need to unify the faiths of his beloved land
to make the citizens feel more akin and closer to each other and to destroy
any possible cultural and ethnic barrier still present in Darokin. He
founded the Church at the age of 30 and has subsequently assumed many
potions of Longevity in his youth to fight against the passing of time only
for one reason: to accomplish his dream. After the Church of Darokin has
affirmed itself as the most prominent in Darokin, he stopped drinking
potions and continued to age normally. He is now 83 (real age 115) and has
already chosen his successor, a promising cleric of the Twelve Watchers in
his thirties. The current patriarch will surely die before AC 1020.
4. The common vestment of the cleric of the Church is a besant tunic with a
golden circle on the upper torso. Each cleric uses the holy symbol of its deity.
5. About the beliefs of the faith, well, i haven't thought about them in
detail, but basically the church exists to help darokinians (or anyone else)
live together in spite of the differences existing between them. The church
teaches to tolerate others, to work for the community and the welfare of the
state and to behave honestly, cause only the honest and trustworthy people
will be rewarded both in this life and in the afterlife. The Church also
operates many hostels for the beggars and the poor people unable to find a
work (few in Darokin, so it's an easy job).
Well, that's all for now. Hope i have been clear and you will react positively.
DM
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:37:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: DUFFISGOD@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Shepherds of Rad
In a message dated 97-09-23 13:29:40 EDT, you write:
<<
Who do you mean by the other immortals who ascended through the radiance? I
always thought Rad was the only one.
>>
Rafiel bennakander and i also had the ascendanced of Tanadaley(the radiant
shaman) in 1014. there are three not four my mistake. i accidentally put
tanadaleyo in as reflex. oh and regarding rads clerics they were not alowed
the ability to turn undead
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 21:06:18 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin
At 21.24 23/09/97 -0700, Patrick wrote:
>I believe that Rad has clerics because there is nothing whatsoever to
>suggest that he doesn't, but rather WotI suggests that he does by providing
>special abilities and alignments for clerics. Certainly this is not proof,
>but IMO it is reasonably strong evidence that he does.
Mmmh... Rad is known only to Glantrians as far as we know, and even there
he's not considered an Immortal, but a philosophy. In Glantri there're no
clerics (at least not until 1001 AC) and any sort of religion is forbidden
(even after WotI).
Native glantrians won't certainly become clerics (though people coping from
Laterre may) and if they do they won't choose Rad as immortal.
WotI lists abilities and alignments for clerics of all immortals, but this
doesn't mean IMO that all immortals have clerics, at least not standard
ones. Elven immortals my have Treeekeepers or Shamans, orcish ones may have
shamans (as in Gaz 10) and so on.
Weird Immortals (like Rad) may have sheperds...
>As I said in my previous post, the only temple of Rad outside of Glantri
>IMC is in Corunglain, and that caters to Glantrian citizens who don't want
>to break the law, but rather skirt it.
Which law? There's no Darokinian law against freedom of cult, and
Corunglain is in Darokin AFAIK...
On the other hand I can see how Glantrians who travel all over the KW may
get fascinated by some foreign Immortal and become devout followers.
**************
Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com
DM in City Of The Stars - PC in the Forgotten Realms
Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:58:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: "David 'Azure' Leland" <dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Holy Word
On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, DM wrote:
> I've got a problem with this spell. In my (Italian) version, it says that
> (don't mind the HD listed, only the effects):
>
> under 5 HD: dead
> from 6 to 8 HD: stunned 2-20 turns
> from 9 to 12 HD: deafened 1-6 turns
> 13+: stunned 1-10 turns
I've always assumed this was in error (says same in English) and have
had 9-12 be stunned, not deafened, for the listed 1-6 turns, and 13+
stunned, as listed, but for 1-10 rounds, not turns.
/ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ \
: David "Azure" Leland ~|~ dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu :
| UCSD Cognitive Science ~|~ Phone/Fax: (619) 642-6709 |
: Graduate Research Fellow ~|~ http://cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland :
\ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ /
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:28:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Galeifel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Shepherds of Rad
In einer eMail vom 24.09.97 05:32:43, schreiben Sie:
<< Rafiel bennakander and i also had the ascendanced of Tanadaley(the radiant
shaman) in 1014. there are three not four my mistake. i accidentally put
tanadaleyo in as reflex. oh and regarding rads clerics they were not alowed
the ability to turn undead >>
Well, you could say Benekander was immortalized by the radiance (I guess that
was the same process as with Rad, just involuntarily). But Rafiel was created
when Blackmoor blew up, not when the radiance was created. But since he was
immortalized by the explosion, I guess you could count him too... BUT these
two immortals were immortalized by the radiance before it was connected to
the sphere of energy (The Immortal's Fury, p.7), so I think that clerics of
Rafiel and Benekander should not gain access to wizard spells.
Garafaele Galeifel
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 14:49:58 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin detailed
On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, DM wrote:
>
> Haavard wrote:
>
> > Asterius (Head): Patron of Trade
> > Koryis: Patron of Peace and Prosperity
> > Ixion: Patron of Law and Honesty
> > The Twelve Watchers: Patrons of Crafts and Work
> > Valerias: Patroness of Love and Charity
>
> <<How does Koryis fit into this. Isn't that an Ochaelan Immortal. Not that
> the patron of Peace and Prosperity wouln'd be popular in Darokin.>>
>
> Well, basically since Darokin is a "land of leftovers" (no offense
> darokinians on line: it's what you call yourselves after all) :),
<snip>
Sounds okay.
I had a look at Darokinian history last night.
Seems like the major human groups are:
Antillians
Thyatians
Traldarans
These would have the major influence in culture and religious matters. I
suspect that the Thyatian way of life is the most popular one.
> 1. Church of Darokin is a young church much like that of Karameikos. I
> suppose it dates back to the X century, probably AC 930, and mainly for two
> reasons.
Sounds like a reasobable explaination.
> 3. The Head of the Church's Pantheon is Asterius, and the Ring of Darokin is
> opened to every Immortal who has a particular love for that country (the
> Twelve Watchers are only Initiate but they/he is a distinguished member as
> his other Hierarch collegues).
okay...
> 4. The High Patriarch of the Church is an old wizened man in his eighties
> named Simon Stone, who happens to be also the founder of the Church. He is a
I like this too. A newer church makes more sense than an old well
espablisheed order.
> 5. About the beliefs of the faith, well, i haven't thought about them in
> detail, but basically the church exists to help darokinians (or anyone else)
> live together in spite of the differences existing between them. The church
> teaches to tolerate others, to work for the community and the welfare of the
> state and to behave honestly, cause only the honest and trustworthy people
> will be rewarded both in this life and in the afterlife. The Church also
> operates many hostels for the beggars and the poor people unable to find a
> work (few in Darokin, so it's an easy job).
Whatabout some metaphysics?
Håvard
Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves
Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves,
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 12:12:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Galeifel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin detailed
In einer eMail vom 24.09.97 14:18:39, schreiben Sie:
<< I had a look at Darokinian history last night.
Seems like the major human groups are:
Antillians
Thyatians
Traldarans >>
Antillians?
Garafaele Galeifel
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:40:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: DUFFISGOD@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Shepherds of Rad
In a message dated 97-09-24 07:39:05 EDT, you write:
<< I think that clerics of
Rafiel and Benekander should not gain access to wizard spells. >>
good point but how does a shaman get fireball?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:19:01 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin detailed
At 12.12 24/09/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In einer eMail vom 24.09.97 14:18:39, schreiben Sie:
>
><< I had a look at Darokinian history last night.
> Seems like the major human groups are:
> Antillians
> Thyatians
> Traldarans >>
>
>Antillians?
Probably he meant Antalians.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:20:13 +0200
From: Fabrizio Paoli <brizio@lunet.it>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Shepherds of Rad
At 15.40 24/09/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 97-09-24 07:39:05 EDT, you write:
>
><< I think that clerics of
> Rafiel and Benekander should not gain access to wizard spells. >>
>
> good point but how does a shaman get fireball?
..and only shamans have fireball among shadow elves...
- --------------
Fabrizio Paoli
brizio@lunet.it
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560
- --------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:48:01 -0400
From: wjnowackl@MEM.po.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Shepherds of Rad
- ------------------------- Begin Original -------------------------
In a message dated 97-09-24 07:39:05 EDT, you write:
<< I think that clerics of
Rafiel and Benekander should not gain access to wizard spells. >>
good point but how does a shaman get fireball?
- ------------------------- End Original -------------------------
IIRC, the shamans get their spells from the soul crystals (not Rafiel),
which in turn gain their power from the Radience (hmm, I wonder if the
crystals will gain more power when Rafiel's nuclear reactor is
finished), which is linked to the Sphere of Energy, which provides
mages with the power to cast fireball.
That's how they get it.
Aaron Nowack
"Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:33:05 -0400
From: wjnowackl@MEM.po.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
- ------------------------- Begin Original -------------------------
In a message dated 97-09-22 18:02:31 EDT, you write:
<< I want to add another commet. I think the only reason for conuqering
Mnrothad would be their superior trading abilities and their good
economy. But after the war there would be no economy and I don´t
think that the Guilds would even deal with the Thyatian conquerors,
and in no way working FOR THEIR PROFIT.
Due to that there is NO reason to attack Minrothad because every
party can only lose in this conflict.
Wizzard >>
Originally, I had Eusebius wanting to acquire Minrothad in part for both
its
trade organization and tribute. However, the surrender terms alter these
a
tad. Minrothad will retain complete control of its trade organizations.
Minrothad will in turn pay a percentage on trade goods (both import and
export) as well as revenue gained while acting as "middle men".
The Minrothad government disolves as officially controlling the land.
The
various Guild Heads answer directly to a Thyatian appointed official
acti ng
as Head Guildsman/Governor. This was negotiated by the DDC, this was the
system of government Eusebius settled on before they arrived. The DDC
thi nks
they acheived a diplomatic victory. The following year, the DDC is
shocke d
when they are snubbed by Thyatis when they attempt to repeat the
negotiations.
The generous terms are generous due to two seperate deals made with the
demihuman (minus halflings on Open Island). In short, Eusebius
dispatches
Thyatian Elves and Dwarves to "persuade their cousins" that the
Thyatians
would be good for Minrothad. With the human cities occupied or on verge
o f
surrender, the demihumans take a serious look at their options. They
coul d
resist, but reports of new troop arrivals (really supply ships) on
Trader
Island makes that unfavorable. Then there are the growing number of
Thyat ian
vessels off their respective islands (real but not an invasion force,
shi ps
are really intended to blockade the islands until troops can be freed
up. )
Consoling themselves that trade will soon continue, they agree to a
cease
fire and prepare for terms of surrender negotiations.
The damage to Minrothad from the invasion is minor. Scars of war are
main ly
on the walls of cities on Trader Island. Most war damage to the Cities
is
quickly repaired by the Thyatians. This is not out of friendliness, but
o ut
of fear from an assault from Ierendi. Given free reign concerning trade,
the
Minrothadians get the economy back on track quickly. Their speed even
impresses the Thyatian officials that recognize and respect the
efficienc y
displayed by the Guilds.
Alex
- ------------------------- End Original -------------------------
Wouldn't their be some kind of resistance group that would sabatoge any
works by the "Vichy Minothrad" goverment? Mystaran Example: the
takeover of Aeria by Thyatis
Aaron Nowack
"Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 18:05:51 -0400
From: wjnowackl@MEM.po.com
Subject: Re[2]: [Mystara] Some ? X10 advice
- ------------------------- Begin Original -------------------------
> Make sure that it contains the counters and the map before you
lay
>down your money
out
Or lobby TSR (oops almost used the non-PC name with the dollar sign
in it :) ) to let me distribute the computer game I wrote to do the
War Machine phase of the module.
- ------------------------- End Original -------------------------
TSR would never let you do that, but maybe WotC would let you. However,
I don't think a program for automating War Machine combat would violate
their copyright any more then a dice roller would. Perhaps a generic
program where you enter in army statistics, and it gives you results
but isn't necessarily tied to any one module?
BTW, I read on TSR's web page that that they were planning to re-start
the Greyhawk Adventures line.
Perhaps this bodes well for Mystara?
Aaron Nowack
"Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 00:43:08 +0000
From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Shepherds of Rad
> From: Galeifel@aol.com
> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:28:34 -0400 (EDT)
Regarding the discussion if a Shepherd of Rad has clerical healing
powers or can turn undead I can only recall one Adventure Idea from
the Glantri Box: It´s called Temple Takeover. A Mindflayer comes into
a Temple and takes "hostages" (the Shepherds) and the PC stumble into
that scene. There are several stats and one is for the High-Shepherd,
he is called Chath Restoun and he IS a 14th level human WIZARD.
A pure wizard and nothing else. No special powers and abilities.
Did I miss the point??
Wizzard
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 00:43:08 +0000
From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de
Subject: [Mystara] Another Rules Question
Searching through my books I found some strange rules and I wanted to
know if anybody can help?
1.) In the WotI-Box Book One: Codex, there is this passage about
artifacts and their Magnitude:
"...Thus, if an Immortal wants to create a Lesser Artifact, he or she
cannot spend more than 250 Power Points on it. Conversely, an
Immortal who wants to spend 440 Power Points on an artifact will be
creating a Lesser artifact. ..."
In the concerning table the numbers are (Minor-100 / Lesser 250 /
Greater 500 and Major-750)
My personal case: I created an artifact with 415 PP spent and I want
to know if it is Lesser or Greater to determine the detrimental
effects.
2.) In the same book, there are the four ways to Immortality of the
"normal" spheres, but what I´m missing is the way of "Entropy". It´s
not that I want to give my PC the chance but to spice up my NPC
reactions and the like to further their own goals to achieve
Immortality.
3.) Upon reaching Immortal Status, every Person gets 300 Power
Points. This means 1st Level Immortal. He (or she) is allowed to
spend PP permanently to increase e.g. his (I will leave this out, I
mean her) Stats, BUT he isn´t allowed to spend PP if this would
reduce his total PP under his current levels minimum (needed PP).
Does this mean he can´t do anything with his 300 PP or is this
passage for later use only. --> Next Level is at 315 PP and similar
steps follow so there is not much room for "playing and fooling
around".
I would be glad if some of you know the answer or stumbled over the
same problems and do have a solution.
Wizzard
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 01:00:58 +0000
From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de
Subject: Re: [Mystara] almanac
>In the message dated 23 Sep 1997 09:27:10 Alex answered:
> Originally, I had Eusebius wanting to acquire Minrothad in part for both its
> trade organization and tribute. However, the surrender terms alter these a
> tad. Minrothad will retain complete control of its trade organizations.
> Minrothad will in turn pay a percentage on trade goods (both import and
> export) as well as revenue gained while acting as "middle men".
> <snip>
> The generous terms are generous due to two seperate deals made with the
> demihuman (minus halflings on Open Island). In short, Eusebius dispatches
> Thyatian Elves and Dwarves to "persuade their cousins" that the Thyatians
> would be good for Minrothad. With the human cities occupied or on verge of
> surrender, the demihumans take a serious look at their options. They could
> resist, but reports of new troop arrivals (really supply ships) on Trader
> Island makes that unfavorable. Then there are the growing number of Thyatian
> vessels off their respective islands (real but not an invasion force, ships
> are really intended to blockade the islands until troops can be freed up.)
> Consoling themselves that trade will soon continue, they agree to a cease
> fire and prepare for terms of surrender negotiations.
> The damage to Minrothad from the invasion is minor. Scars of war are mainly
> on the walls of cities on Trader Island. Most war damage to the Cities is
> quickly repaired by the Thyatians. This is not out of friendliness, but out
> of fear from an assault from Ierendi. Given free reign concerning trade, the
> Minrothadians get the economy back on track quickly. Their speed even
> impresses the Thyatian officials that recognize and respect the efficiency
> displayed by the Guilds.
I think your ideas quite OK, but if you read through the GAZ and
think some of those things over and take their (Minrothad) attitude
towards others into account you will soon realize that the GUILDS
won´t tolerate ANY superior regarding their ver yown business. Don´t
forget the thieves guild as well as the privateers guild and the 1st
and 2nd homeguard.
In my campaign a reigning PC got into a conflict with the Guilds and
he as a demi-human himself tried to get the demi-human Minrothadders
on his side could only get a ("OK, we will stay neutral"). Therefore
he could weaken the Total Forces but he had to pay dearly. I think of
the Guilds as Sharks concerning business and they won´t pay a penny
to any other institution. On the other hand the good contact to every
major nation on the western known world would result in heavy
accusations (and I think actions) against Thyatis.
Don´t forget that the Minrothadders are a very proud kind of people.
They survived all those vampire and lycanthropy plagues and they
withstood against Thyatis and other nations and this small nation has
the best commercial net (I also think of Darokin but they are only
land-based).
Quite interesting diiscussion. But it is as I posted earlier on.
Minrothad and their whole behaviour is totally ignored when
"planning" new actions that could happen in the KW.
I think they are like Holland in the Privateer-Days or like Venice in
its best days. A small landbased country but strong due to their
superior mercantile might.
(Sorry for my english, but there are several german phrases that I
can´t get over and concerning some meanings, well, I´m no native
speaker)
Wizzard
------------------------------
End of mystara-digest V2 #149
*****************************
From: owner-mystara-digest@ (mystara-digest)
To: mystara-digest@lists.io.com
Subject: mystara-digest V2 #150
Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.io.com
Sender: owner-mystara-digest@
Errors-To: owner-mystara-digest@
Precedence: bulk
mystara-digest Thursday, September 25 1997 Volume 02 : Number 150
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 18:56:16 -0700 (MST)
From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" <ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Another Rules Question
On Thu, 25 Sep 1997 wizzard@mail.intcom.de wrote:
> 1.) In the WotI-Box Book One: Codex, there is this passage about
> artifacts and their Magnitude:
>
> "...Thus, if an Immortal wants to create a Lesser Artifact, he or she
> cannot spend more than 250 Power Points on it. Conversely, an
> Immortal who wants to spend 440 Power Points on an artifact will be
> creating a Lesser artifact. ..."
>
> In the concerning table the numbers are (Minor-100 / Lesser 250 /
> Greater 500 and Major-750)
I think the above must have been a typo. Otherwise, the minimum artifact
that could be created would be a Minor one with 100 PP. (Under the
assumption that </= 100 PP is a Minor; </= 250 PP is Lesser- to go by the
converse, >/= 100 PP would be a Minor, meaning you could invest a minimum
of 100 PP).
Of course, that means that the maximum PP one could invest in an artifact
would be 750 PP, but I don't think that's such a major problem...
> My personal case: I created an artifact with 415 PP spent and I want
> to know if it is Lesser or Greater to determine the detrimental
> effects.
It would be a Greater, I'm thinking.
> 2.) In the same book, there are the four ways to Immortality of the
> "normal" spheres, but what I´m missing is the way of "Entropy". It´s
> not that I want to give my PC the chance but to spice up my NPC
> reactions and the like to further their own goals to achieve
> Immortality.
There was never originally an Entropic path given, as it is seen as only
the way a truly evil person (and thus, not a PC- at least according to
the way TSR likes to gear things; this is heroic roleplaying, after all).
There is a Path of the Conqueror given in GAZ10- the Orcs of Thar; but it
is just a generic path to Immortality for humanoids, and doesn't have any
specific ties to Entropy. It could easily be seen as the path for an
Entropic, though.
> 3.) Upon reaching Immortal Status, every Person gets 300 Power
> Points. This means 1st Level Immortal. He (or she) is allowed to
> spend PP permanently to increase e.g. his (I will leave this out, I
> mean her) Stats, BUT he isn´t allowed to spend PP if this would
> reduce his total PP under his current levels minimum (needed PP).
> Does this mean he can´t do anything with his 300 PP or is this
> passage for later use only. --> Next Level is at 315 PP and similar
> steps follow so there is not much room for "playing and fooling
> around".
I assume that he can't do anything permanently at this point, at least
not until he reaches a higher level of power. He could certainly spend PP
for temporary effects, though.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:03:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin
In a message dated 97-09-23 19:23:31 EDT, brizio@lunet.it writes:
<< >As I said in my previous post, the only temple of Rad outside of Glantri
>IMC is in Corunglain, and that caters to Glantrian citizens who don't want
>to break the law, but rather skirt it.
Which law? There's no Darokinian law against freedom of cult, and
Corunglain is in Darokin AFAIK...
On the other hand I can see how Glantrians who travel all over the KW may
get fascinated by some foreign Immortal and become devout followers. >>
I think he was referring to Glantrian expatriates skirting their own
anti-Clerical
laws by worshiping Rad while in Darokin -- a weird but interesting idea.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:02:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Holy Word
In a message dated 97-09-23 13:59:24 EDT, dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it writes:
<< So, this way the spell could be far more disturbing for characters of
level
13+ than for characters of level 8-13 (after all, a stunned character cannot
fight and has a penalty of -4 on CA and ST, whereas a deafened character can
do everything)? Seems unclear... >>
I would imagine that deafness would have some very noticeable disadvantages
- -- for example, a (temporarily) deaf person could not hear and therefore
could
not follow verbal instructions from allies, and he would be automatically
surprised by any opponent approaching him from behind. Such minor
disadvantages could prove crucial in battle.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:04:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Another Rules Question
In a message dated 97-09-24 19:05:38 EDT, wizzard@mail.intcom.de writes:
<< Does this mean he can´t do anything with his 300 PP or is this
passage for later use only. --> Next Level is at 315 PP and similar
steps follow so there is not much room for "playing and fooling
around". >>
The 300 PP are useful as they are the source of TP or "temporary
power" used to power Immortal spells -- he may freely expend TP
but not PP. The amount of PP that may be expended goes up
from zero to 24 PP (when his total is 324 PP) just before reaching
2nd level. The PP gap between levels increases gradually as the
character gains levels, making ever larger increases possible as
the character advances -- between levels 35 and 36 the gap is a
full 1000 PP.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:02:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kaviyd@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Shepherds of Rad
In a message dated 97-09-24 19:00:48 EDT, wizzard@mail.intcom.de writes:
<< A Mindflayer comes into
a Temple and takes "hostages" (the Shepherds) and the PC stumble into
that scene. There are several stats and one is for the High-Shepherd,
he is called Chath Restoun and he IS a 14th level human WIZARD.
A pure wizard and nothing else. No special powers and abilities.
Did I miss the point?? >>
My description of Shepherds of Rad actually pre-dates the Glantri boxed
set, so of course I am not surprised at the contradictions. I tried to come
up with a character class that could fill the essential healing role filled
by
Clerics in a nation like Glantri where Clerics are banned. If you wish to
use
my rules for Shepherds, there are two ways to handle this scenario:
1) This Shepherd is actually 28th level, which gives him (approximately)
the spellcasting abilities of a 14th level Wizard and a 14th level Priest,
except that he does not have access to the higher level spells.
2) Remember that Rad was the source of the Shepherds' power and that
he was taken away by an Old One at the end of _Wrath of the Immortals_.
Had my campaign gone through these events, the Shepherds would have
become normal Mages of half their current level (rounded down) at that time.
Since the adventure in the Glantri boxed set occurs after _Wrath_, it is
safe to assume that the Shepherd class has indeed disappeared from
Glantri and that the people filling this role in the Temples of Rad are now
ordinary Wizards. And, of course, they have good reason to tolerate Clerics
now.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:42:40 -0700
From: "Patrick" <Dennis.Sullivan.Family@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin
> In a message dated 97-09-23 19:23:31 EDT, brizio@lunet.it writes:
>
> << >As I said in my previous post, the only temple of Rad outside of
Glantri
> >IMC is in Corunglain, and that caters to Glantrian citizens who don't
want
> >to break the law, but rather skirt it.
>
> Which law? There's no Darokinian law against freedom of cult, and
> Corunglain is in Darokin AFAIK...
> On the other hand I can see how Glantrians who travel all over the KW
may
> get fascinated by some foreign Immortal and become devout followers. >>
>
> I think he was referring to Glantrian expatriates skirting their own
> anti-Clerical
> laws by worshiping Rad while in Darokin -- a weird but interesting idea.
You're right; that's exactly what I meant. Of course it would usually
only be used by the extremely wealthy and by those in Southern Glantri, but
it still could work.
Patrick
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:16:09 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Re: Shepherds of Rad
On Wed, 24 Sep 1997 wjnowackl@MEM.po.com wrote:
>
> IIRC, the shamans get their spells from the soul crystals (not Rafiel),
> which in turn gain their power from the Radience (hmm, I wonder if the
> crystals will gain more power when Rafiel's nuclear reactor is
> finished), which is linked to the Sphere of Energy, which provides
> mages with the power to cast fireball.
> That's how they get it.
I like the idea of the soul crystals getting more power when the chamber
of stars is completed. Fabrizio: your opinio here as the SE expert?
Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves
Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves,
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:12:47 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Church of Darokin detailed
On Wed, 24 Sep 1997, Fabrizio Paoli wrote:
> At 12.12 24/09/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >In einer eMail vom 24.09.97 14:18:39, schreiben Sie:
> >
> ><< I had a look at Darokinian history last night.
> > Seems like the major human groups are:
> > Antillians
> > Thyatians
> > Traldarans >>
> >
> >Antillians?
>
> Probably he meant Antalians.
I did, Thanks Fabrizio :)
This is more of an educated guess on my account. Partly because of names
like Attleson, which seem Antalian and ofcourse since there would seem to
have been a lot of Antalians all over the known world at some time.
Nithian settlers would be appropriate too, but they were probably either
transported to Nithia(HW), or had their memories erased, so there wouldn't
be any remains of their culture. The Antalian culture is probably also
faded. Thyatian values are now much more important. However the antalian
individualism and independence still runs deep in the people. Also their
sense of "democracy" comes from these ancient traditions.
Traldar settlers are very good at adaoting the DArokinian way of life,
although they keep their own religion.
Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves
Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves,
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:43:25 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Aleksei Andrievski <k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi>
Subject: [Mystara] Timeline question
Hello folks,
I've been recently gathering the Mystaran timeline, combining it from
various sources. However, I have noticed an inconsistency: some sources
say that the shadow elves first contacted humanoids in 150 BC, while
others say it was in 130 AC. Which one is correct?
***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord
** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but
** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us."
** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages,
** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers."
** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread."
*****************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:02:11 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Aleksei Andrievski <k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi>
Subject: [Mystara] Immortal's first manifestation form
When a character becomes an Immortal, his master creates a manifestation
form for him. Does the master permanently spend 100 PPs on it, or is the
form completely free for everyone?
***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord
** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but
** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us."
** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages,
** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers."
** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread."
*****************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:59:07 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Aleksei Andrievski <k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi>
Subject: [Mystara] Reviving Mystara (was: Some ? X10 advice)
On Wed, 24 Sep 1997 wjnowackl@MEM.po.com wrote:
> BTW, I read on TSR's web page that that they were planning to re-start
> the Greyhawk Adventures line.
> Perhaps this bodes well for Mystara?
>
That's because there are hordes of Greyhawkers bugging them about
restarting their favorite world. There probably aren't hordes of Mystarans
doing the same (though it'd be good if there were).
***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord
** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but
** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us."
** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages,
** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers."
** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread."
*****************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 17:08:20 +0800
From: Glenn Butcher <knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Another Rules Question
wizzard@mail.intcom.de rambled (wizzard@mail.intcom.de):
> Searching through my books I found some strange rules and I wanted to
> know if anybody can help?
>
[Snip]
>
> 3.) Upon reaching Immortal Status, every Person gets 300 Power
> Points. This means 1st Level Immortal. He (or she) is allowed to
> spend PP permanently to increase e.g. his (I will leave this out, I
> mean her) Stats, BUT he isn´t allowed to spend PP if this would
> reduce his total PP under his current levels minimum (needed PP).
> Does this mean he can´t do anything with his 300 PP or is this
> passage for later use only. --> Next Level is at 315 PP and similar
> steps follow so there is not much room for "playing and fooling
> around".
>
While technically a begining initiate can't expend any PP, it isn't
breaking the rules much to allow them to do so. This allows for (eg:)
Benekander's creation of the staff in WotI.
Also, it can rerise where an immortal is unable to create artifacts etc
(ie: expend PP) because they have just risen a level. This always seemed
an artifical limit to me.
> I would be glad if some of you know the answer or stumbled over the
> same problems and do have a solution.
>
> Wizzard
>
Yep, i changed the immortality system completely. I no longer have
immortal levels, and all immortals are no longer the same. However,
immortals can expend PP or adventure to increase their mortal character
class level, or gain new classes, new abilities, new class abilities etc.
I like this because I didn't want the newly immortal secretive mage and
the newly immortal brute fighter being (almost) the same in ability.
I haven't finished it completly yet, but if anybody is interested give me
yell and I'll email it when I have finished. I'll currrently doing the
hard part: balancing it all.
Glenn
- --
"Women. The best thing since the Nova spell" [Lynard the fire elemaster]
knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au | glennb@ichr.uwa.edu.au
Home page: http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/
finger -l for pgp public key
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:14:12 +0000
From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de
Subject: [Mystara] WotI-Immortals
Being really active I wanted to ask if anybody is interested in a
(selfmade) realtionship-tablet regarding the Immortals involved in
WotI and their realtionmships among all Immortals.
(But it is in Corel!!)
I hope that you could give me some hints tips ... and I want to hear
your opinion. Drop me a line.
Wizzard
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:53:30 +0200
From: Peter Balazs <a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Another Rules Question
Hi!
>I haven't finished it completly yet, but if anybody is interested give me
>yell and I'll email it when I have finished. I'll currrently doing the
>hard part: balancing it all.
Yes, please, I´d be interested!
************************************************************
Peter Balazs
Wurlitzerg. 37/12
1160 Wien
0222/4816030
a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at
pbalazs@radon.mat.univie.ac.at
http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs
************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:59:07 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Aleksei Andrievski <k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Karameikos box
On Tue, 23 Sep 1997 Galeifel@aol.com wrote:
> Well it's mostly (sometimes exactly) copied from Gaz1. Some new info can be
> found in JA. Some minor nobles are detailed, which weren't mentioned in GAZ1.
> Milo Korrigan is established as temporary ruler of the Barony of Halag.
> That's about it.
>
What are the new elven dominions and who are their rulers (no game data
necessary, just names)?
***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord
** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but
** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us."
** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages,
** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers."
** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread."
*****************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 07:52:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Galeifel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Mystara] Immortal's first manifestation form
In einer eMail vom 25.09.97 12:29:24, schreiben Sie:
<< When a character becomes an Immortal, his master creates a manifestation
form for him. Does the master permanently spend 100 PPs on it, or is the
form completely free for everyone?
>>
IIRC, the sponsor "buys" the new immortal his first mamifestation form.
Garafaele Galeifel
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 07:55:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Galeifel@aol.com
Subject: [Mystara] Brotherhood of the Radiance
In the G: KoM Grimoire, in the section detailing the radiance, there are
pictures of two members of the brotherhood (one of them is called Maximilian
Hitler, IIRC) who are NOT land-owning nobles. Now I always thought membership
in the brotherhood was restricted to nobles of baron status and higher (order
of the radiance). What am I missing?
Garafaele Galeifel
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 14:09:09 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Haavard Roenne Faanes <hoc@nvg.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [Mystara] WotI-Immortals
On Thu, 25 Sep 1997 wizzard@mail.intcom.de wrote:
> Being really active I wanted to ask if anybody is interested in a
> (selfmade) realtionship-tablet regarding the Immortals involved in
> WotI and their realtionmships among all Immortals.
yep!
>
> (But it is in Corel!!)
huh? whatzzat?
> I hope that you could give me some hints tips ... and I want to hear
> your opinion. Drop me a line.
okay. send me some and I'll look at it
Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves
Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves,
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 14:31:41 +0000
From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de
Subject: Re: [Mystara] WotI-Immortals
- --Message-Boundary-17999
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable
Content-description: Mail message body
Seems interesting to reply my own mail I think it is best. Due to the
minimal size of the file I attached it. I know normally I shouldn=B4t
do that.
There are some comments I am to make:
The PC follow the Immortals: RAD, DIAMOND and NYX.
a straight line means friend or ally, a dotted line means enemy or
animosity. the three immortals with a circle around their names are
"kind of important" figures between the fractions.
Any other questions. Ask me!! If the file caused problems, unreadable
... *you know, drop me a line*
Wizzard
- --Message-Boundary-17999
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-description: Information about this message.
This message contains a file prepared for transmission using the
MIME BASE64 transfer encoding scheme. If you are using Pegasus
Mail or another MIME-compliant system, you should be able to extract
it from within your mailer. If you cannot, please ask your system
administrator for help.
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File: WRATH.ZIP
Date: 23 Sep 1997, 12:58
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- --Message-Boundary-17999--
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End of mystara-digest V2 #150
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