mystara-digest Tuesday, February 3 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 044 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Creature Crucibles + various Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Economy Re: [MYSTARA] - Undersea Genealogies? Re: [MYSTARA] - Lhomarr and Y'hog in Mystaran History (LONG) [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( The Twaelar ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Funny Quotes ( Was : Location of the Great Crater ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Underground races (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis) Re: [MYSTARA] - Rebel Entropics Re: [MYSTARA] - Creature Crucibles + various Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Issues Re: [MYSTARA] - Creature Crucibles + various [MYSTARA] - Projected Image & other spells: questions [MYSTARA] - Underocean Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Creature Crucibles + various Re: [MYSTARA] - Projected Image & other spells: questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Issues Re: [MYSTARA] - Projected Image & other spells: questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Economy [MYSTARA] - Underground Races (Was: Funny Quotes -- Was : Location of the Great Crater) Re: [MYSTARA] - Projected Image & other spells: questions Re: Underground races (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis) Re: [MYSTARA] - Projected Image & other spells: questions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 21:09:06 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Creature Crucibles + various The problem is it is a complete >rip-off of a mid-summers nights dream! I fail to see how this is a problem...I mean heck, when you come down to it all fantasy is a rip off of Tolkien--and if you are going to go that route then Tolkien was a rip off of Medeival literature... :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 21:16:22 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Economy >Of course, that means that Kol doesn't get a whole lot of cash in order to play the politics game, but he probably shouldn't have it anyway (I don't see him as a major political player in Glantri, myself). I do. I like the thought of an innocuous kobold coming out of nowhere to fill a power vaccuum there in southern Glantri. The princes allow him his principality partly from shock but also because they are humored by the idea and figure he will be easy to manipulate. But Prince Kol proves smarter than any realize. Perhaps he is a throwback to his nobler ancestors, perhaps he is guided by another force, or perhaps kobolds are even smarter in general than any realize. In any case, he turns out to be one of the more powerful princes in the post Alphatian world... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 21:26:09 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Undersea Genealogies? >As for the Kopru, the basis of the non-humanoid elements of their physiology is obviously not reptilian or ichtyoid, it's not even vertebrate ... they are mollusk men! Good point! >Anyway, the theory goes as follows: >>Really good stuff snipped<< I liked this. This may have something to do >with the progressive rise in power of the cult of Arik of the One Hundred Eyes, who seeks to be freed from the prison dimension and establish his Carnifex, Beholder, and Kopru servants as masters of the multiverse. Interestingly there IS a small cult of Arik on a Thanegioth island. It is one of the larger ones to the west of the Isle of Dread. Tends to be avoided as it bears a rather vicious curse... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 22:04:16 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Lhomarr and Y'hog in Mystaran History (LONG) >To make a long story short, yes, it does conflict with this one sentence, but it's a minor detail in the history of Mystara, and to say that the Lhomarrians were the first to be sent to the HW does not change much at all. No major modifications have to be made - I have my best effort to ensure that what ripples Lhomarr created on the surface world were all but obliterated with the weight of ages. Personally I like what you have written which, imc, is all that really matters...:) I am going to use at least part of it but with one addition: I am going to eventually tie in the idea of the three continents being fused as one at the time. Now I know modern theories of plate tectonics probably would disagree with so short a period having any effect on the movement of continents. This is not really important to me as my players will be unlikely to point out that logical argument which is based on a theory... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 17:39:44 -0600 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( The Twaelar ) On Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:01:36 -0800 (PST) Matthew Levy writes: >who is Juliast? Juliast is the brother of Queen Tarova of Undersea and the commander of the Coral Guard. If you go by my Undersea Timeline, he becomes King and leads the triton on an exodus to Aquas. The first half of my timeline is available on DM's page (1001-1009), and his page has a link to mine which has 1001-1011. I've posted the 1012 timeline to the list, but haven't put it on my page yet, try looking back through the digests to find it. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 02:59:37 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Funny Quotes ( Was : Location of the Great Crater ) In a message dated 98-02-02 09:45:54 EST, greis@dorit.ihi.ku.dk writes: >The EVIL underground elves (thank Mystara for the Shadow elves and those >described in Champions of Mystara(?)), but why this eternal need for evil underground elves?). With a very few exceptions most underground races seem to be evil. How about a campaign world where some evil race dominates the surface and has driven the "good" races underground? That would be a refreshing change. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 02:59:40 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes In a message dated 98-02-02 11:25:59 EST, borealis@cois.on.ca writes: >Why does every campaign have to have a 'great ancient elven civilization'? >If they are so powerful, how did they get displaced by humans? Easy -- humans, with their relatively short lifespan and age of maturity, can outbreed most demi-humans and thus eventually displace the elves. While goblinoids, in turn, can outbreed humans, they have other limitations that keep them in check. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 02:59:39 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Underground races (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis) In a message dated 98-02-02 10:42:17 EST, greis@dorit.ihi.ku.dk writes: >There are many others that could live >underground (and does), so why not try an evil clan of dwarves, that have perfected the art of building useful underground houses filled with traps and what about some underground haflings, gnomes or humans? Dwarves: Other campaign worlds have the duergar and derro, and Mystara has the Moulder Dwarves of the Northern Reaches. Gnomes: Other campaign worlds have the Svirfneblin, who are one of the few non-evil underground races. Mystaran/OD&D gnomes should suffer some weaknesses in daylight with their 90' infravision, but I have seen no official mention of this. Halfling: Many years ago some contributor created "Blacklings". Human: The Cynidiceans have already been cited. The main problem with underground humans is that humans do not have infravision, so more adaptation is required for them than for other races. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 13:14:55 GMT From: cpb@gatewest.net (Chris Paul Billows) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rebel Entropics On Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:01:53 -0600, you wrote: >I really like this idea. I think it shows how entropics are not evil because of their goals. In fact, their beliefs could very well lead to them being persecuted for them. They fit very well in the setting that is not focused on good and evil but rather on lawful and chaotic. I'd really like to see you go further in developing them for Mystara. This is one of the best things that Classic D&D has going for it. It is not polarized by a Good vs Evil axis. Instead it focuses on the importance of Balance. That all spheres are needed but when one tries to overextend themselves then an imbalance (and suffering) is created. Perhaps the writers did not know what they were writing, but there is a very profound teaching in those rules... that balance leads to peace, imbalance (?) leads to suffering. Very buddhist. __________________________________ | |\ | Chris Billows | | | Check out my Gaming Memoirs | | | www.gatewest.net/~cpb/gaming/ | | |_________________________________| | \_________________________________\| *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 05:42:43 -0800 (PST) From: keir cliff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Creature Crucibles + various RE: ' I fail to see the problem....' Agreed, most literature, especiealy fantasy, takes it's influence from others. I mearly meant that it has little that is original, and is based souly on Shakespeare vision. Even so, I would recomend the book to anyone wanting info on running a campaign of this sort. I just meant to state the facts, rather than imply any opinion either way. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 14:52:05 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Issues At 15.33 31/01/98 EST, Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 98-01-31 04:49:28 EST, dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it writes: >>Also, have u ever noticed how >>high are the Immortals ST vs Magic. The Fiends have no immunities to Mortal Magic, and if a spell is cast against them their ST is really laughable: according to old rules, Screaming Demon has 20 (!) and Roaring (the most powerful) has 11!!! >I am fairly certain that these saving throws are in addition to those that they receive for their hit dice and spellcasting ability. Since fiends have >the spell casting ability of a 36th level Mage, they would be entitled to a >"mortal" >saving throw of 2+ followed by an "Immortal" saving throw of 20 vs. mortal magic. Nope. Reread the rules: it can seem impossible but that's how it works for demons... same ST against ALL spells (mortal or immortal).. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 14:58:50 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Creature Crucibles + various On Sun, 1 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >The problem is it is a complete >>rip-off of a mid-summers nights dream! >I fail to see how this is a problem...I mean heck, when you come down to it all fantasy is a rip off of Tolkien--and if you are going to go that route then Tolkien was a rip off of Medeival literature... >:) Academic comment: I´d say Tolkien is more rip off of Norse and Celtic Myth. Shakespear might also be a rip off of Italian lyrics and British folklore. British folklore is a rip off of Celtic Myth and French folklore(?) Okay maybe I dont know what I´m talking about here, but anyway there are different ways of stealing ideas. Maybe TSR should try subtlety some time? Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:23:36 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Projected Image & other spells: questions OK, i was planning the next battle my gaming group must face and i was wondering if this idea of mine can function. I want to use a combo of these spells: a mage casts in sequence Wizard Eye, Projected Image and Mirror Image (creating four images - i've been lucky ;)), and starts bombarding the group with spells using the Wizards Eye to view all around the Projected Image while remaining out of sight. Now the group faces a projected image with four mirror images (that's to say five images!) while the mage can continue to cast spells at them using the Wizard Eye to focus on the targets. Do u think it's possible? I mean, the spell Projected Image says that the image persists as long as the caster remains concentrated, and the Wizard Eye says that the mage can view thru it only if concentrates. Now, i know that to cast spells one must concentrate, so theoretically, if a mage is already concentrated to mantain a spell (Wizard Eye or Projected Image) he cannot cast others. However, the Projected Image spell explicitely says that the mage CAN cast spells thru the image while being concentrated to mantain it, so i guess he can also concentrate on both the image and the wizard eye and cast spells.. Too much? Maybe he can mantain a number of spells equal to his Intelligence bonus while concentrating and cast spells only if the bonus permits it. An example: an 18 (+3) INT mage can mantain a wizard eye and a projected image and still cast a spell. A 16 (+2) INT mage can only mantain one spell while concentrating (say projected image) and cast spells, or he can mantain two spells while concentrating (say a Projected Image and a Sword) but can cast no spells. Obviously a mage without INT bonus cannot mantain more than a spell while concentrating without doing anything else, unless the spell itself allows it (see Projected Image). What do you say? You see, i must think about these kind of combos if i want to keep competitive with my players, who're master tacticians with spells & combined magical effects (you cannot even being to understand how diabolical can be my players when it comes to planning a magical duel!). DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:28:40 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Underocean At 17.39 02/02/98 -0600, Aaron E Nowack wrote: >The first half of my timeline is available on DM's page (1001-1009), and his page has a link to mine which has 1001-1011. I've posted the 1012 timeline to the list, but haven't put it on my page yet, try looking back through the digests to find it. The Underocean Timeline is also up and running on my page for Aaron's glory and for your interest. the URL is: http://www.geocities.com/TImesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Check out the Lost History section DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:37:06 +0100 (MET)From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) At 10.59 31/01/98 -0500, bjm10@cornell.edu wrote: >On Sat, 31 Jan 1998, DM wrote: >>STOP! I will never stress this concept too much: it is not the BODY that becomes Immortal but the LIFE FORCE (call it SOUL or CHI or INNER ESSENCE, whatever you like). So, since the life force of a MI is ALREADY IMMORTAL, it cannot attain immortality TWICE! >Now, an MI, strictu sensu, would not be a complete being, but I tend to run MIs a bit differently--if they're neglected long enough, a "soul" spontaneously forms within them. It's just the nature of the Universe, beyond Immortal control. Pardon? What do you mean with "neglected"? The rules (note: i'm speaking referring to the rules) for the Immortals (old and new) explicitely say that once the Immortal leaves the MI, the MI DISAPPEARS with all its gear! So how can it develop a soul of its own?? Maybe u haven't understood, but the Immortal IS the MI, they're ONE! Maybe you're referring to Avatars (another matter), but this is not what I have been talking about. Avatar is not a Mortal Identity. bye DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 09:37:26 -0800 From: jdaly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Creature Crucibles + various >Okay maybe I dont know what I´m talking about here, but anyway there are different ways of stealing ideas. Maybe TSR should try subtlety some time? That is ok. Many of us speak when we don't know what we are talking about..:) But Tolkien was a professor of Medieval Lit and you can see the influence quite clearly in Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, and several other lesser known Medieval texts. Middle Earth is a term actually used in Medieval Lit to describe earth. Earth is the world that is literally (in the minds of the Medieval person) located between Heaven and Hell. I will plague you with further info if you really wish... jdaly *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 09:52:05 -0800 From: jdaly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Projected Image & other spells: questions >You see, i must think about these kind of combos if i want to keep competitive with my players, who're master tacticians with spells & combined magical effects (you cannot even being to understand how diabolical can be my players when it comes to planning a magical duel!). I do understand your position very well I am afraid...and I think you brought out all the points of contention... Therefore I would say it all comes down to whether or not you really want your players to use the SAME tactics at a later date. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:28:10 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis In a message dated 98-02-02 21:38:40 EST, you write: << > Maybe we should develop each of the Alphatian nations in a Gazetteer format? >>Either pre- or post-WotI (even better, both)? How's that for a project? >I've been meaning to do some of that myself for quite some time now. I've got a few general ideas, nothing really developed, but I'd certainly be up for such an undertaking (seeing as how I'll eventually get around to it sometime in the future anyway. ;) This is a good idea! I have a player whose character is half Shiye Lawr elf, yet when she asked me for information about the culture, I had to scan Dragon and DoE for the finest grains of info. I think these elves are an interesting clan, who deserve more attention. >>Geoff I like the idea of the Alphatian Gaz. The info is present though scattered about. IMO the space constraints of DotE was a factor in this. Also, Alphatia is kind of a secondary setting for PCs which for the most part would not fit well into Alphatian society (fighters, theives). Also, Alphatia is an almost legendary, mystical land. Stuff like that is pretty hard to put down in ink. Perhaps, Allston thought that chore (detailing Alphatia) was more up to the individual DM. You have a half Shiye PC. So do I. Mine is a half elf. I really don't like the term "half elf". I prefer "one of elven and human heritage". But "half elf" is shorter so I usually use it. I do not like the broad brush stroke that the AD&D Half Elf Race gets. Such a mixing of blood should entail more variety in characteristics of both parent races. Been working on a reasonable "One of Elven and Human Heritage" Class. Still got a few bugs to work out. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:18:13 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics In a message dated 98-02-02 20:52:14 EST, you write: <> According to Minrothad Gaz and PWA, the Thyatians use WarGalleys (large and small) and sailing ships. As far as tactics, the Thadder Gaz has a section on that. In short, ship on ship fighting is mainly dealt with boarding and overpowering the crew. Thyatian galleys have artillery (ballista and catapults) not to mention a ram. The large Galleys also carry a substantial number of Marines (a portion used as rowers) to use to board a vessel. For Operation Hydra, I tried to focus Thyatian naval tactics in this manner. The age of the galley is faltering. The old days of galleys slugging are long gone. The sailing ships are just too darn maneuverable to ram and/or board. But the Thyatians have a large number of Galleys available so they use them. Sailing ships are armed with at least one catapult or ballista to give the ship a weapon instead of relying on the boarding tactic. Of course a troop of Marines are onboard for emergencies. In naval combat, the sailing ships flank the Thyatian Fleet. Inside the perimeter are the Galleys, troop transports and supply vessels (always remember your logistics). If an enemy force is encountered, the flanking sailing ships converge and engage the vessels with their arty. The main objective is to herd the enemy vessels into the reach of the galleys. The Galleys lumber through the water to aid the sailing ships. Given the circumstances, boarding, ramming or just blasting the vessel with arty is chosen. Ideally an attacking enemy force of smaller numbers is desirable in this case. In amphib. landings, the Galleys is still king. Its shallower keel allows for the troops to get closer to shore before embarking. Also the compliment of arty peices comes in handy to provide cover fire for the landing troops. In Hydra, the Galleys tend to offload their Marines to establish beachheads for the Army troops aboard the transports. Also seen in Hydra is the Galley's ability to row. Mighty handy for navigating the Guild's riverways. Which many of the towns/cities are based upon. In this manner, Marines can be landed. The Galleys Arty can be used to give the Galley a river gunboat like respect. RS/SC- Not really sure about their vessels. I have both box sets but have never been a big fan of the area. The only reasons I have the boxes are 1) Its Mystara and they were on sale($20 for both IIRC). 2) I once thought of making the setting more KW-ish. No guns, removal/lessening of the Red Curse, and tie in the history more with KW and make it more open to KW travel. I guess that you could have smoke powder weapons. Ships with 100 or so guns would be expensive to provide powder. Just think about those Spanish Galleons. Even a British Ship of the Line. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 10:30:33 EST From: Neal Daskal Subject: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Issues >At 15.33 31/01/98 EST, Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >>In a message dated 98-01-31 04:49:28 EST, dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it writes: >>>Also, have u ever noticed how >>>high are the Immortals ST vs Magic. The Fiends have no immunities to Mortal Magic, and if a spell is cast against them their ST is really laughable: according to old rules, Screaming Demon has 20 (!) and Roaring (the most powerful) has 11!!! >>I am fairly certain that these saving throws are in addition to those that they receive for their hit dice and spellcasting ability. Since fiends >have >the spell casting ability of a 36th level Mage, they would be entitled to a >"mortal" >>saving throw of 2+ followed by an "Immortal" saving throw of 20 vs. mortal magic. >Nope. Reread the rules: it can seem impossible but that's how it works for demons... same ST against ALL spells (mortal or immortal).. >DM The TSR editors did not pay enough attention to immortal rules to consider whether immortal creatures would be weaker against certain attack forms than mortals. Also remember that demons have AM. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 10:33:15 EST From: Neal Daskal Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Projected Image & other spells: questions >OK, i was planning the next battle my gaming group must face and i was wondering if this idea of mine can function. I want to use a combo of these spells: >a mage casts in sequence Wizard Eye, Projected Image and Mirror Image (creating four images - i've been lucky ;)), and starts bombarding the group Does Mirror Image affect the Projected Image or the mage himself? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:31:54 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Economy In a message dated 98-02-02 21:53:10 EST, you write: << >Of course, that means that Kol doesn't get a whole lot of cash in order >to play the politics game, but he probably shouldn't have it anyway (I don't see him as a major political player in Glantri, myself). I do. I like the thought of an innocuous kobold coming out of nowhere to fill a power vaccuum there in southern Glantri. The princes allow him his principality partly from shock but also because they are humored by the idea and figure he will be easy to manipulate. But Prince Kol proves smarter than any realize. Perhaps he is a throwback to his nobler ancestors, perhaps he is guided by another force, or perhaps kobolds are even smarter in general than any realize. In any case, he turns out to be one of the more powerful princes in the post Alphatian world... >> And if you go by G:KoM Kol is really a deformed Shadow Elf. This could explain alot about Kol. Plus it gives the reader an idea of what happens to those deformed children. I always felt kind of cheated in that regard. I mean, you constantly heard of the act of abandondment, but never any cases of what later transpired. Kol really being a Shadow Elf brings multiple possibilities to the campaign. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 07:53:52 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Underground Races (Was: Funny Quotes -- Was : Location of the Great Crater) Heya: At 02:59 AM 2/3/98 EST, Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >With a very few exceptions most underground races seem to be evil. How about a campaign world where some evil race dominates the surface and has driven the "good" races underground? That would be a refreshing change. In the Champions of Mystara Boxed Set there is a Cannon "Good" Underground community of (I believe) Gnolls and Elves who live and work together. They can be found under the Burning Wastes of the Sindhi Desert. This community can be used to great effect, (if the PCs are in the area) since chances are they've never met a 'nice' Gnoll before. Jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 16:51:12 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Projected Image & other spells: questions At 09.52 03/02/98 -0800, jdaly wrote: >I do understand your position very well I am afraid...and I think you brought out all the points of contention... >Therefore I would say it all comes down to whether or not you really want your players to use the SAME tactics at a later date. Oh, i only want to know if it's logically possible as a strategy and as spells' functioning matters. I know they'll copy it afterwards, but i don't care. They don't have all the spells described in my post, so i guess they'll end up using other strategies. :) Anyway, i consent it to my players: if I can use it, then THEY can too. PS: the Projected Image is one of the most useful spells i've ever used (and this is not the first time... it's only that mmy players tend to forget mistakes.. eh eh) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:39:37 -0600 From: ccosman@huntingdon.edu (Cecil Cosman) Subject: Re: Underground races (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis) Responding to the message of Tue, 3 Feb 1998 02:59:39 EST from Kaviyd@aol.com: >Human: The Cynidiceans have already been cited. The main problem with underground humans is that humans do not have infravision, so more adaptation is required for them than for other races. I was talking about this last night with a friend of mine who and we had some interesting ideas. We were both anaware of the Cynidiceans... tho now that I see the name I remember some sort of group of immortals that spend too much time looking after a dying race.. is that right? are they in the HW? don't have anything here to look em up with in the lab.... regardless, my friend and I are working on two different ideas... one for an evil race of humans and one of a good... when we get it don'e I'll post it so you all can ridicule. ;) Some info on these Cynidiceans would be nice since I doubt I have what they are in. ;) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 11:55:42 -0800 From: jdaly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Projected Image & other spells: questions DM wrote: >At 09.52 03/02/98 -0800, jdaly wrote: >>I do understand your position very well I am afraid...and I think you brought out all the points of contention... >>Therefore I would say it all comes down to whether or not you really want your players to use the SAME tactics at a later date. >Oh, i only want to know if it's logically possible as a strategy and as spells' functioning matters. I know they'll copy it afterwards, but i don't care. They don't have all the spells described in my post, so i guess they'll end up using other strategies. :) Anyway, i consent it to my players: if I can use it, then THEY can too. >PS: the Projected Image is one of the most useful spells i've ever used (and this is not the first time... it's only that mmy players tend to forget mistakes.. eh eh) >DM Say! I thought of another thing to consider...does the projected image "carry over" the multiple images? I am thinking not...but I don't know for sure. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #44 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 17:37:06 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #45 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Tuesday, February 3 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 045 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Projected Image & other spells: questions [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - A few words to the Christmas quiz [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Orders of Alphatia [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for Bellissaria? Re: [MYSTARA] - Location of the Great Crater Re: Underground races (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis) Re: [MYSTARA] - Mortal Identities (was: no subject) Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker Re: [MYSTARA] - Mortal Identities (was: no subject) Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Projected Image & other spells: questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis Re: [MYSTARA] - Undersea Genealogies? Re: [MYSTARA] - Creature Crucibles + various Re: Underground races (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis) Re: Underground races (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis) Re: [MYSTARA] - Undersea Genealogies? Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics [MYSTARA] - Cynidicea, Barimoor, Dythestenia, Nithia, and Tuma Re: [MYSTARA] - Undersea Genealogies? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 17:08:23 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Projected Image & other spells: questions At 10.33 03/02/98 EST, Neal Daskal wrote: >Does Mirror Image affect the Projected Image or the mage himself? Normally it affects the mage itself, but since with Projected Image "all spells seem to be cast by the image", then i was wondering IF the Mirror Image could affect BOTH the mage and the PI, or only one of them.. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:04:55 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - A few words to the Christmas quiz Here the answers to my Mystara Christmas quiz, which were mostly not correct. I'm sorry for the delay but I was offline quite a time and really very busy in the last weeks. 1. What are the three greatest known freshwater lakes of Mystara? Of course sorted by area. I mostly read Amsorak, Klintest and Stahl. I thought that this would be the answers but there are are much greater lakes on Mystara. Please notice that I said "Mystara" and not "Known World". Alphatia and the Hollow World count, too. Here now the Top Twelve of Mystaran lakes: Lake Chitlaloc Lake Menkor Lake Agrisa Lake Lagrius Lake Llyn Crystal Lake Lake Amsorak Shiell Lake Lake Hast Lake Klintest Lake Halli Lake Stahl It's an eye-opener, isn't it? 2. How many orkhans live on the Sea of Grass (and what are their names) ? The number is 9. Jamal is the orkhan of the Keshak and the khans are the orkhans of the tribal hordes. Batu Chagatai Huaji Hulagu Jamal Kadan Moglai Oktai Temur 6. Of how many kingdoms consists the second Alphatian Empire? O.k., it was a trap and nobody noticed it! The second Alphatian Empire lasted from BC 1000 to AC 1009 and consists (in pre-war campaigns) of 39 kingdoms (IICC). Excluded the hidden kingdoms, of course! :-) Jamuga Khan "The Mighty Khan thanks for your participation!"  *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:04:58 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Orders of Alphatia A few weeks ago there was a list of paladins' orders in Alphatia. The most interesting was forgotten (as always). This is the Order of the Lakes. Founded by some adventurers roughly 500 years ago its primary goal was to be an excuse. An excuse? Yes, an excuse for shipping on galleys. The order is open for all fighters who want to become paladin, knight or avenger, as the OL cares for its members. Many members are clerics, but thieves and magic-users will be accepted, too. To fulfill its primary goal the leaders of the order founded a company (owned by the order), the "Order of the Lakes Enterprises" (OLE). This holding owns two subsidiary companies, the Pan-Alphatia Company (PAC) and the Alphatia Coast Guard Agency (ACGA). The PAC is a trading company which commits much of the trade on the rivers and lakes and in the coastal waters of Alphatia. The ACGA serves as the Coast Guard for every kingdom, which doesn't want to do the job itself. (The Coast Guard is not the Navy; in Alphatia it's each kingdom assignment.) Again this business is done on rivers and lakes and in coastal waters. To prevent fights between galleys of the OL, the standard contract doen't allow aggressive actions against other kingdoms. (Anyhow, there exists always the possibility of additional contracts.) The ships of PAC and ACGA are always manned by members of the OL. Every people of the Alphatian Empire has the right to ask a OL captain for help. He must not help, but often it colours the grey everyday life. (And XPs don't fall out of the sky.) Sometimes the OL is translated as "Order of Lakim" as it was founded on the Isle of Lakim in the Lake Llyn. The chapterhouse in the city Lakim still exists but is a hoax. Officially it is the main chapterhouse and it is a great one, but the real one lies on a little island in the Shiell Lake. Likewise are secret chapterhouses on islands in the Crystal Lake and the Lake Lagrius. (Remember, the founder were adventurers, always vigilant and paranoid.) Some smaller are located in a number of harbour towns. The OL maintain an imposing fleet of galleys of all sizes, from small riverboats to even some war galleys, some of them pure traders, some fitted for battles. In the last decades the OL tried to expand to the Alatians and there were considerations about the IoD, Norwold and Esterhold as well. But all these plans came to an abrupt halt when the great war broke out. The WotI was a heavy burden for the OL. Many knights and novices of the order served on ships of the Imperial Navy and never returned. The knights on the main island were transported to the Hollow World. The other, including High Master Ardannabras, retreated to the greatest remaining chapterhouse in the Lake Lagrius. Over the centuries the OL has developed a real political goal: To construct a system of channels to conduct an island-spanning galley shipping traffic. Now being a floating continent without a surrounding ocean, this goal is likely to be achieved over the next decades. The leader of the HW branch of the OL is now Low Master Halzunthram (a successor of the mage who tried to conquer Glantri). His title is new, a joke for all members of level 9 and higher. The official (and even real) reason is, that he doesn't want to be elected as the High Master as long as the death of High Master Ardannabras is not confirmed (not very likely, as he still lives). He said: "If I cannot be the High Master, let me be your Low Master." The fate of the knights remains covered by the mists of future. But most likely they will do what they have done always: Shipping galleys. Jamuga Khan (according to torturing a captured Knight of the Lakes) "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:04:54 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for Bellissaria? Wondering about the subject? O.k., here some thoughts: Despite of some federal structures in the Alphatian Empire (AE) the whole thing was pretty centralistic. First came the Island of Alphatia, then a long time nothing and finally the rest. Norwold was good for incapable children of nobles, the Isle of Dawn was a battleground, the Alatians were an experiment, Esterhold was a big mining center and slavehunter place and Bellissaria was the bread basket of the AE. After the WotI the center was gone. After forming the NAE one question arose. Where will the center of power and civilization be? The newest developments say IONACE, former Monster Island and Denwarf-Hurgon. But IMO the Island is too small, too mountainous and too dangerous to be this center. The only logical choice is Bellissaria, big and civilized, although developable. I see Bellissiaria sinking into nothingness once again and I think that it deserves a better fate. Don't forget that Bellissaria has the greatest landmass of the NACE and doesn't face the problems of the IoD (Thyatis), Esterhold (Rock Deserts and Jennites) or IONACE (monsters of all sorts). And now I declare the discussion opened. Participate and read the text below. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:04:46 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Location of the Great Crater << Ah, but he betrayed his own followers when he decided to turn his back on the Sphere of Energy and go the route of Entropy. He is a creature of unreasoning hate and therefore may very well lash out against the Followers of Fire as well as Air. >> Acknowledged! But he didn't, at least not successful. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 12:12:48 -0800 From: jdaly Subject: Re: Underground races (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis) >Some info on these Cynidiceans would be nice since I doubt I have what they are in. ;) Many years ago I played a character in the module The Lost City (B4 I think). This is the module that features the Cydinecians. They are given to hallucinations and they live in an underground city in the desert. There are one or two other lost races in the complex with them. I am afraid that is all I know except for one other tidbit: With the reprinting of the Expert Set, the designers made some attempt to "place" established modules. At that time it was decided the Lost City would be placed in Ylaruam. However, besides that one edition of the Expert Set I am unaware of any other reference to the Lost City being there. The only underground civilization that was mentioned in the Ylaruam gazetter (as I remember) was the series of caverns controlled by that super-smart mage who was planning to take over the world or some such... By the way, I wonder what ever became of him..? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:04:49 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mortal Identities (was: no subject) << You mean in the "let's try to wipe out D&D and steal the entire Mystara setting for AD&D" era? >> No, I meant the era before, when the last paladin-defenders of D&D undertook a last desperate (successless) try to save our beloved gaming system from the evil AD&D hordes. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:04:51 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis << I've been meaning to do some of that myself for quite some time now. I've got a few general ideas, nothing really developed, but I'd certainly be up for such an undertaking (seeing as how I'll eventually get around to it sometime in the future anyway. ;) >> Maybe we should start with 24 miles hex maps for Esterhold and Bellissaria? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:04:51 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker << Who in Mystara speaks German? >> Probably the Hattians, the Heldannic Knights and the people of Aalban. :-) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:04:52 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mortal Identities (was: no subject) << I have read the WotI. In fact I have read it several times. Not only the section on Mortal Identities but also the actual campaign and mechanics text. Fascinating! I think you're are coming to complete different conclusions. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 13:13:21 EST From: Neal Daskal Subject: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Projected Image & other spells: questions >At 10.33 03/02/98 EST, Neal Daskal wrote: >>Does Mirror Image affect the Projected Image or the mage himself? >Normally it affects the mage itself, but since with Projected Image "all spells seem to be cast by the image", then i was wondering IF the Mirror Image could affect BOTH the mage and the PI, or only one of them.. Then I would rule that the mage himself is Mirror Imaged and that there is only one Projected Image for the party to deal with. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:23:58 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) << Pardon? What do you mean with "neglected"? The rules (note: i'm speaking referring to the rules) for the Immortals (old and new) explicitely say that once the Immortal leaves the MI, the MI DISAPPEARS with all its gear! So how can it develop a soul of its own?? Maybe u haven't understood, but the Immortal IS the MI, they're ONE! Maybe you're referring to Avatars (another matter), but this is not what I have been talking about. Avatar is not a Mortal Identity. bye DM >> Thanks, Marco! Finally there is somebody out there who has read and understood (!) the rules. I was fighting a lonely fight. The whole theories about mortal identities break in exactly this point. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:23:59 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis << I like the idea of the Alphatian Gaz. The info is present though scattered about. IMO the space constraints of DotE was a factor in this. Also, Alphatia is kind of a secondary setting for PCs which for the most part would not fit well into Alphatian society (fighters, theives). Also, Alphatia is an almost legendary, mystical land. Stuff like that is pretty hard to put down in ink. Perhaps, Allston thought that chore (detailing Alphatia) was more up to the individual DM. >> I'm waiting impatiently for the NET GAZETTEER FOR ALPHATIA. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:23:57 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis << Actually, there is a canon group of underground humans - the Cynidiceans from B4 >> But the canon limits them to a little place in Ylaruam. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:23:53 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Undersea Genealogies? << Perhaps they had help from a very powerful and vaguely mollusk-like entity from space who sleeps dreaming beneath the ocean ... :) >> Greetings from Cachalot. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 13:33:29 -0800 From: jdaly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Creature Crucibles + various Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >On Sun, 1 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >>The problem is it is a complete >>>rip-off of a mid-summers nights dream! >>I fail to see how this is a problem...I mean heck, when you come down to it all fantasy is a rip off of Tolkien--and if you are going to go that route then Tolkien was a rip off of Medeival literature... >>:) >Academic comment: I´d say Tolkien is more rip off of Norse and Celtic Myth. Shakespear might also be a rip off of Italian lyrics and British folklore. British folklore is a rip off of Celtic Myth and French folklore(?) >Okay maybe I dont know what I´m talking about here, but anyway there are different ways of stealing ideas. Maybe TSR should try subtlety some time? I am not sure if you are arguing a point with me or not. I assume you are because of the insertion of the words "I'd say". I am taking these words to mean that you have an opinion that differs from mine. The reason I say this is because Norse, Celtic, French, Italian, Anglo-Saxon, and German texts all provide what we call "Medieval Literature". So what you say is true, especially if you are saying "The anonymous writer who penned Sir Gawain and the Green Knight was stealing ideas from Celtic writers who came before him." That statement would in fact fit in with what I spoke of before AND your response above...:) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:27:24 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: Underground races (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis) << However, besides that one edition of the Expert Set I am unaware of any other reference to the Lost City being there. The only underground civilization that was mentioned in the Ylaruam gazetter (as I remember) was the series of caverns controlled by that super-smart mage who was planning to take over the world or some such... By the way, I wonder what ever became of him..? >> No, he wants only to become immortal. His name is Barrimoor and he is an Alphatian. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 14:02:40 -0800 From: jdaly Subject: Re: Underground races (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis) JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: ><< However, besides that one edition of the Expert Set I am unaware of any >other reference to the Lost City being there. The only underground civilization that was mentioned in the Ylaruam gazetter (as I remember) was the series of caverns controlled by that super-smart mage who was planning to take over the world or some such... >By the way, I wonder what ever became of him..? >> >No, he wants only to become immortal. His name is Barrimoor and he is an Alphatian. Naw, his plans are bigger than that. I mean, yeah, he wants to be an immortal...but his designs run deep. Perhaps his big mistake will someday be trying to outwit old moldy bones (Thanatos). But my question was: What do you suppose became of him? More specifically, what was he doing during WotI? He must have taken advantage of the chaos somehow... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:18:11 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Undersea Genealogies? >Interestingly there IS a small cult of Arik on a Thanegioth island. It is one of the larger ones to the west of the Isle of Dread. Tends to be avoided as it bears a rather vicious curse... I had not heard of this. Please share with me all available information (even make up stuff if you like) posthaste. Thank you, m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 16:39:24 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) On Tue, 3 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: >Thanks, Marco! Finally there is somebody out there who has read and understood (!) the rules. I was fighting a lonely fight. The whole theories about mortal identities break in exactly this point. And, as I have said before, there comes a time when one must allow reason to take over and say "screw the rules". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:49:39 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics Thanks, Alex, for the really interesting and useful info on ship combat ... This clarifies things a lot and I am going to go back and read through your Operation Hydra posts to glean more details and ideas. Now I have some follow up questions: 1) I was reading a Military History Quarterly article about the Battle of Lepanto, which was fought by the Italians and Spanish against the Turks in 1571. It had a fairly detailed description of the light galleys used during that period, and much of the tactical information accords with what you had to say. One detail that you didn't mention was that on the light galleys all the artillery is on a foredeck ... the sides of the ship are unarmed. This makes head-on attacks on your opponent's flanks vitally important. How is the artillery (catapults and ballistas) on Thyatin war galleys set up? 2) I was reading in the same place about the Turkish pirate Khair ed Din (Barbarossa), who would land his galleys backwards on the beach, with the guns pointing out to sea, as a kind of makeshift fortification for the archers, musketeers, and marines ... is this tactic used in Mystara? 3) This article also mentioned a ship called a galleass, which was a galley with an extra artillery deck on the sides so that it WOULD have firepower like a galleon ... are these used by any Mystaran navy? 4) You portray galleys as lumbering and slow, but according to both the movement rates in the AD&D DMG (2nd edition) and the article I read, movement under oar is actually faster than movement under sail (even though sailing ships are indeed faster than *sailed* galleys) ... although I think you are right about them being less maneuverable. Am I misreading this one? 5) There is a kind of Byzantine ship listed in the DMG called a Dromon, which is a type of galley. Wouldn't this be appropriate for the Thyatins (who are quasi-Byzantine)? I think dromons used greek fire in their catapults. Shouldn't Mystara have Thyatin Fire? (maybe Milenian fire?) 6) I don't know much about galleons. can they be rowed as well as sailed, or are they just big sailing ships? In my current campaign, the PCs are the officers of a Thyatin military expedition in 977 AC, sent by Thincol to try to seize the Thanegioth archipelago and set up a base of operations to interdict Ierendi pirates. I gave them 200 regular army heavy infantry and archers, and a single ship, with which to accomplish this task (reasoning that at this point the Thyatin navy was still really weak after the Alphatian Spike Assault, but that if the isles turned out to be as rich as Rory's Barbarossa's log made them sound, they could easily recoup the costs of the expedition and build new ships when they got there. They made it from Port Lucinius to the easternmost island of the Thanegioths in about a week (partially helped along by riding a storm southwards), then spent another week or so sailing around and charting the coastline - at one point they were becalmed and rowed their way along the southern bay of the island. Now, I haven't told them exactly what kind of ship it was (since up til now the action has been intraparty arguments and shore landings, not ship combat) - so my questions are: could they have gotten there in that amount of time in a galley? is a galley even an appropriate ship for such a voyage? if not, is there some other kind of ship that could have made it, which has oars (explaining the one day they were becalmed)? am i exaggerating the speed of coastline mapping? did i fuck up real bad to have them sail in just one ship (should i have sent a flotilla instead)? with 200 soldiers on board, how often are they going to have to provision? i realize these are a lot of questions ... i just don't understand all the information that i have available in rule books, since it is vague, incomplete, and contradictory between different sources (not to mention often unrealistic). thanks for whatever advice you can give me, m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 14:07:09 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: [MYSTARA] - Cynidicea, Barimoor, Dythestenia, Nithia, and Tuma I wanted to say something on all of the above: I think the Alasiyan desert is an eminently reasonable location for the city of Cynidicea, considering the history of the KW ... The Cynidiceans sound vaguely hellenic, as does the name of the Emirate of Dythestenia (which is certainly not Arabic-sounding). Now, as we know in the RW the hellenistic culture spread Greek language around the middle east in a period after the collapse of ancient Egyptian, Assyrian, and Persian societies and before the Muslim-Arab conquests of the 7th century. Similarly, it is likely that during the "dark ages" between the collapse of the Nithian Empire and the invasion of the Alasiyan by the Thyatins and Alphatians about 1000 years later, there was SOMETHING going on in the area ... for one thing, Gnolls probably moved through Dythestenia on their way to attack King Halav's people in the south, but there were probably also human inhabitants ... since the Nithians themselves were wiped out, a likely candidate for these intermediary inhabitants is a quasi-Hellenistic culture related to the Milenians and Traldar ... among these people's city-states was, most likely, Cynidicea. Now, as the originally hospitable grasslands on the edge of the Dythestenian hills were gradually encroached upon by the spreading of the Alasiyan desert following the casting of the Elves' weather alteration spell, these Cynidiceans may have been driven underground in search of water, ultimately becoming insane as well (maybe their wells were spiked with hallucinogens? maybe their water source is contaminated by the quasi-demon Zargon?) Anyway, this period (the dark ages) is also the time during which the city-state of Tuma (B8) rose and fell far to the west, on the northern slopes of the Cruth mountains. I will soon (when I get finished with it) post my timeline for Tuma, as well as a discussion of its relationship with the growing Elvish kingdom of Mealiden, the Eastwind kings of the Streel valley, the Traldar clans of the south, the Hin rebellion in the Time of Heroes, the coming of the Thyatin reavers, Queen Udbala's great horde, the destruction of the Hardanger Gnomes, the launching of Flying Serraine, the Gnolls, Cynidicea, the Nagpa, Aranea, and Kopru, and the ancient curse of Arik of the One Hundred Eyes. which brings us to the subject of Barimoor ... one motivation he may have in establishing his base under Nithia is to collect dark secrets of past ages he was not meant to know about. perhaps his underground tunnels connect to those of the broken landers, shadow elves, hardanger kobolds, and Cynidicea. I would like to hear more thoughts on all of these from anyone who's got them. peace, m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 15:36:29 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Undersea Genealogies? On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Matthew Levy wrote: >This is pretty interesting ... How precisely did the Aquarendi evolve? I remember that they live in the region of Minrothad and that they once lived on land during the pre-cataclysm era. It doesn't really say. I seem to recall PC3 saying that the Aquarendi "returned to the sea", which implies that they were living under the sea at one point, returned to land and their surface brethren, then went back. I would assume it was just one of those things... elves spending a lot of time in water, over the centuries they began to evolve gills, etc. Although, given the elves' magical nature, they could have used magic to alter themselves. Or else perhaps they were originally water-type spirits (sort of along the lines of the Sidhe from PC1- of course, I believe that elves are directly related to the Fairy races, myself), that grew into elf-like forms along with the surface elves in the old homeland of Evergrun. >If all the humanoid races of undersea are descended from them, doesn't this mean that all these groups are relative newcomers to the territory of the shark-kin, kna, kopru, and devilfish? That's kind of the impression I get, anyway. I mean, it mentions that the Shark-kin were already in that region around the time the Aquarendi, etc began to migrate there. And the Devilfish have probably been around for quite some time. And the Kopru civilization is so ancient no one seems to remember anything about it. >First, Davania is the primary home of Saurian species NOW, but only because that was the only place the Serpentine Empire's various races survived after the fall of the ancient Carnifex of Y'hog and the rise of Blackmoor/Thonia. Before this, the Carnifex and many of their servitor races were dominant mainly on Brun ... Davania was the stomping grounds of humans like the Lhomarrians and the proto-Oltecs. So there is no necessary ancestral connection here ... Well, the sea regions between the two territories could certainly still be home to saurian/fish type species... >but anyway, Secondly, Shark-kin and Kna are not reptiles, they are fish, an entirely different type of creature Maybe I'm misremembering my Zoology, but aren't fish descended from the oceanic dinosaurs, much in the way it is now believed birds are descended from the avian dinosaurs? Quite a distance away, to be sure, but they would definitely seem to have common ancestry that can be traced back to the days of Saurian dominance on the surface of Mystara. >The Kna may also be a carnifex product, but they are just as likely to be a naturally evolved icthyo-humanoid race. Both these species remind me of the Sahuagin, Locathah, and Kuo-Toa of other AD&D worlds ... I wonder how or if these fit in on Mystara (I've already had one Sahuagin show up as a captive circus attraction in Trikelios, but he could have come from anywhere, even the hollow world, or I could backfigure that he was some other creature type). Didn't somebody on the list already make the Sahuagin-Sharkkin connection? I think the Shark-kin are quite obviously the Mystaran equivalent of the AD&D Sahuagin, yeah. And the Devilfish have a parallel, too, IIRC- something like the Ixichitlatl? I'm not sure what the Locathah is, but the Kuo-toa are a serpent man species, right? >As for the Kopru, the basis of the non-humanoid elements of their physiology is obviously not reptilian or ichtyoid, it's not even vertebrate ... they are mollusk men! You think? That's a possibility I hadn't considered. I forget- are Mollusks cold-blooded? Because that's part of what I based my theory on (the fact that they seem to require remaining in the presence of hot water- volcanoes, etc.- implies to me that they are cold blooded). [theory about the Kopru snipped] That's interesting, and would go a long way to explaining the mysteries of the "lost civilization" of the Kopru. Given that the Carnifex have faded from memory as well, there is probably very definitely a connection between the two. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #45 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 07:23:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #46 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Wednesday, February 4 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 046 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Underground races (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis) Re: [MYSTARA] - Undersea Genealogies? Re: Underground races (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis) Re: [MYSTARA] - Cynidicea, Barimoor, Dythestenia, Nithia, and Tuma Re: [MYSTARA] - Undersea Genealogies? [MYSTARA] - Netlogo Winner Announcement! Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Netlogo Winner Announcement! Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker Re: Underground races (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis) Re: [MYSTARA] - Undersea Genealogies? Re: [MYSTARA] - Undersea Genealogies? Re: [MYSTARA] - Netlogo Winner Announcement! Re: [MYSTARA] - Cynidicea, Barimoor, Dythestenia, Nithia, and Tuma Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: Underground races (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis) [MYSTARA] - Netlogo Contest and other things Curious... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 15:46:55 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: Underground races (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis) On Tue, 3 Feb 1998 Kaviyd@AOL.COM wrote: >Human: The Cynidiceans have already been cited. The main problem with underground humans is that humans do not have infravision, so more adaptation is required for them than for other races. I haven't developed them beyond a concept idea yet, but I've postulated that there is a tribe (tribes?) of humans living within the Atruaghin Plateau. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:05:26 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Undersea Genealogies? On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: >On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Matthew Levy wrote: >>This is pretty interesting ... How precisely did the Aquarendi evolve? I remember that they live in the region of Minrothad and that they once lived on land during the pre-cataclysm era. >It doesn't really say. I seem to recall PC3 saying that the Aquarendi "returned to the sea", which implies that they were living under the sea at one point, returned to land and their surface brethren, then went back. I would assume it was just one of those things... elves spending a lot of time in water, over the centuries they began to evolve gills, etc. >Although, given the elves' magical nature, they could have used magic to alter themselves. Or else perhaps they were originally water-type spirits (sort of along the lines of the Sidhe from PC1- of course, I believe that elves are directly related to the Fairy races, myself), that grew into elf-like forms along with the surface elves in the old homeland of Evergrun. I tend to like magical explanations better than evolutionary ones. Not that you couldn't have both. I am also intrigued by the theory that the Elves were originally Yuan-Ti from the Serpentine Empire who had been purged by Ordana. They were made to look like faeries on purpose, but are distinctly mortal and physical. For that matter, while we're on the subject, where the heck did the fairies come from? are they minor immortals? how do they relate to the spirits? what do they have to do with halflings (who look a lot like Brownies?) >>If all the humanoid races of undersea are descended from them, doesn't this mean that all these groups are relative newcomers to the territory of the shark-kin, kna, kopru, and devilfish? >That's kind of the impression I get, anyway. I mean, it mentions that the Shark-kin were already in that region around the time the Aquarendi, etc began to migrate there. And the Devilfish have probably been around for quite some time. And the Kopru civilization is so ancient no one seems to remember anything about it. I'm working on that one. The Kopru civilization grew up in the wake of the collapse of the Blackmoorian world economy ... they probably had many dealings with the Taymora and Aranea ... there is a complex history here to be dug up. >>First, Davania is the primary home of Saurian species NOW, but only because that was the only place the Serpentine Empire's various races survived after the fall of the ancient Carnifex of Y'hog and the rise of Blackmoor/Thonia. Before this, the Carnifex and many of their servitor races were dominant mainly on Brun ... Davania was the stomping grounds of humans like the Lhomarrians and the proto-Oltecs. So there is no necessary ancestral connection here ... >Well, the sea regions between the two territories could certainly still be home to saurian/fish type species... well, i think the sea of dread is the best place on the outer world for tropical salt water life anyway ... maybe we need to also think about cold water humanoids? (besides wereseals) >>but anyway, Secondly, Shark-kin and Kna are not reptiles, they are fish, an entirely different type of creature >Maybe I'm misremembering my Zoology, but aren't fish descended from the oceanic dinosaurs, much in the way it is now believed birds are descended from the avian dinosaurs? Quite a distance away, to be sure, but they would definitely seem to have common ancestry that can be traced back to the days of Saurian dominance on the surface of Mystara. You are misremembering your zoology, badly. What you are thinking of are icthyosaurs, which are a kind of fish-like reptile related to dinosaurs (much like whales and dolphins are fish-like mammals) ... real fish existed long before dinosaurs, and are the ancestors of all land vertebrates, which descended from amphibious lungfish ... otherwise there would BE no reptiles (or other land vertebrates)! but saying these make saurians and icthyans equivalent is like equating dinosaurs and mammals ... very different critters. >>The Kna may also be a carnifex product, but they are just as likely to be a naturally evolved icthyo-humanoid race. Both these species remind me of the Sahuagin, Locathah, and Kuo-Toa of other AD&D worlds ... I wonder how or if these fit in on Mystara (I've already had one Sahuagin show up as a captive circus attraction in Trikelios, but he could have come from anywhere, even the hollow world, or I could backfigure that he was some other creature type). Didn't somebody on the list already make the Sahuagin-Sharkkin connection? >I think the Shark-kin are quite obviously the Mystaran equivalent of the AD&D Sahuagin, yeah. And the Devilfish have a parallel, too, IIRC- something like the Ixichitlatl? Yup. I don't know if the Ixitxachitl have actually been used in any other world however. Perhaps this name was actually used on Mystara during the days of the outer world Azcan kingdom, but has fallen into disfavor (perhaps because it's so darn hard to pronounce). :) >I'm not sure what the Locathah is, but the Kuo-toa are a serpent man species, right? Nope. The Kuo-Toa are subterranean fish-men with goggly eyes, who were run off the surface world by hu-mans and thus became bitter and evil (sense a theme here?). the Locathah are another sort of fish-men who live in the oceans and get preyed upon by Sahuagin. >>As for the Kopru, the basis of the non-humanoid elements of their physiology is obviously not reptilian or ichtyoid, it's not even vertebrate ... they are mollusk men! >You think? That's a possibility I hadn't considered. I forget- are Mollusks cold-blooded? Because that's part of what I based my theory on (the fact that they seem to require remaining in the presence of hot water- volcanoes, etc.- implies to me that they are cold blooded). this makes some sense. I don't know about actual mollusks (I don't even know if mollusks HAVE blood ... please don't go cut open an octopus to find out, I don't want that on my conscience) but it makes sense that the Kopru would be cold blooded. >[theory about the Kopru snipped] > >That's interesting, and would go a long way to explaining the mysteries of the "lost civilization" of the Kopru. Given that the Carnifex have faded from memory as well, there is probably very definitely a connection between the two. Yup. More on this will come soon. m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:10:45 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: Underground races (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis) what about those weird underground humanoids from the Fiend Folio like Grimlocks? m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: >On Tue, 3 Feb 1998 Kaviyd@AOL.COM wrote: >>Human: The Cynidiceans have already been cited. The main problem with underground humans is that humans do not have infravision, so more adaptation is required for them than for other races. >I haven't developed them beyond a concept idea yet, but I've postulated that there is a tribe (tribes?) of humans living within the Atruaghin Plateau. >------------------------ >Cthuludrew, the Great Old One >(aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." >URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 18:55:19 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cynidicea, Barimoor, Dythestenia, Nithia, and Tuma >which brings us to the subject of Barimoor ... one motivation he may have in establishing his base under Nithia is to collect dark secrets of past ages he was not meant to know about. perhaps his underground tunnels connect to those of the broken landers, shadow elves, hardanger kobolds, and Cynidicea. I would like to hear more thoughts on all of these from anyone who's got them. Actually for an earlier campaign I made a series of caverns which linked all these places together. Although the characters have never been to the Ylaruam portion I made sure to make them almost the center of the network... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 16:56:42 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Undersea Genealogies? On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, Matthew Levy wrote: >I tend to like magical explanations better than evolutionary ones. Not that you couldn't have both. I am also intrigued by the theory that the Elves were originally Yuan-Ti from the Serpentine Empire who had been purged by Ordana. They were made to look like faeries on purpose, but are distinctly mortal and physical. I think it's interesting, but as I mentioned, I tend to make them related to the Fairy races in my campaigns. >For that matter, while we're on the subject, where the heck did the fairies come from? are they minor immortals? how do they relate to the spirits? what do they have to do with halflings (who look a lot like Brownies?) Or, to throw another log on the fire, how about Faeries? The things that live on the Plane of Air, and are described as having halfling sized bodies, dwarvish beards, elvish features, and gnomish noses, and are related to all the demihuman races? >well, i think the sea of dread is the best place on the outer world for tropical salt water life anyway ... maybe we need to also think about cold water humanoids? (besides wereseals) There are probably some cold adapated mer-species; the Twaelar are deep ocean Merrow (as opposed to the Sunlit Sea Merrow) which implies that the mer-races can probably adapt to such conditions fairly readily. >You are misremembering your zoology, badly. What you are thinking of are icthyosaurs, which are a kind of fish-like reptile related to dinosaurs (much like whales and dolphins are fish-like mammals) ... real fish existed long before dinosaurs, and are the ancestors of all land vertebrates, which descended from amphibious lungfish ... otherwise there would BE no reptiles (or other land vertebrates)! but saying these make saurians and icthyans equivalent is like equating dinosaurs and mammals ... very different critters. Oh... I knew that, really. I mean it. :p Then disregard everything I said about fish and reptiles. :) >Yup. I don't know if the Ixitxachitl have actually been used in any other world however. Perhaps this name was actually used on Mystara during the days of the outer world Azcan kingdom, but has fallen into disfavor (perhaps because it's so darn hard to pronounce). :) True. They could be the name given to the shallow ocean Devilfish (the Warrior species), whenever they came into contact with seafaring Oltec/Azcan peoples. >Nope. The Kuo-Toa are subterranean fish-men with goggly eyes, who were run off the surface world by hu-mans and thus became bitter and evil (sense a theme here?). the Locathah are another sort of fish-men who live in the oceans and get preyed upon by Sahuagin. That's right. The Yuan-ti are the serpent men. Also, the Mesmer (Creature Catalog- an undead fish man) has a direct parallel (IIRC) in AD&D. They're probably the result of Kna becoming undead (much in the way that elves tend to become banshees/wyrds/wights, etc.) - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 17:04:05 -0600 From: "Galwylin" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Netlogo Winner Announcement! Greetings! I happy to announce that we have a winner in the Mystara Netlogo contest!! Congrats to Andrew Cunningham on his winning entry affectionally know as Netlogo Entry #3 ;D I'd like to say thanks to all the particapates in the contest. There were so many good ones to choose from but Andrew's won out gathering almost twice the number of votes as the second place entry! I hope everyone proudly uses the logo to identify your Mystara sites and pages as belonging to one large group of fans the world over. At this time, all the other entries have been removed from the voting page. Sean Reynolds will be putting the logo on the TSR site in different sizes soon, I think. (Sean, let's us know when its available for download, okay?). Thanks again to all those who entered a logo and a special thanks to Andrew for his design!! - ------------------------------------------------------------ This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 00:59:01 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Hi! >STOP! I will never stress this concept too much: it is not the BODY that>becomes Immortal but the LIFE FORCE (call it SOUL or CHI or INNER ESSENCE, whatever you like). So, since the life force of a MI is ALREADY IMMORTAL, it cannot attain immortality TWICE! But isn´t a part of this lifeform used for the MI? IMC most MI are very independent, and the Immortals only gets to know, hwat the IM knows if he takes him back or gets into contact with him. So as the Immortals parts his life form, and one part of it becomes mortal and independent, IMC ist is quite possible for him to get immortal again. ************************************************************ Peter Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 17:28:54 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Netlogo Winner Announcement! At 05:04 PM 2/3/98 -0600, Galwylin wrote: >Greetings! >I happy to announce that we have a winner in the Mystara Netlogo contest!! Congrats to Andrew Cunningham on his winning entry affectionally know as Netlogo Entry #3 ;D Congrats to Andrew from this 'other Netlogo participant'. If I'm correctly remembering which one "Netlogo Entry #3" was -- the orangy-yellow one with the trellis in behind I believe -- that was one of the three I would have picked between if I hadn't voted for one of my own instead ;-) >I'd like to say thanks to all >the particapates in the contest. There were so many good ones to choose from but Andrew's won out gathering almost twice the number of votes as the second place entry! Wow! Way to go Andrew. Actually, I'm not too surprised -- it is a well crafted bit of artwork that is both subdued and aetheticly pleasing. Just out of curiosity, I'd be interested in knowing which entries were in the top five, and what the actual number of votes were for those choices. As you say, there were a lot of good ones, and even if Andrew's managed to suck up twice as many as the runner up, it would be interesting to see where the other votes went. >I hope everyone proudly uses the logo to identify your Mystara sites and pages as belonging to one large group of fans the world over. At this time, all the other entries have been removed from the voting page. Darn. I would have liked to compare all the entries again, now that I know which one won. Ah well. Such is life. Jenni Artist of Entries #15, #16 and #17 (I think. In any case, they were the last three on the page) - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:31:40 EST From: Kaviyd@AOL.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker In a message dated 98-02-03 12:38:50 EST, JamugaKhan@aol.com writes: >Probably the Hattians, the Heldannic Knights and the people of Aalban. :-) All of whom are of Hattian origin. We can assume that Hattian is the language in use for all German sounding names. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:31:26 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: Underground races (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis) In a message dated 98-02-03 11:52:37 EST, ccosman@huntingdon.edu writes: >We were both anaware of the Cynidiceans... tho now >that I see the name I remember some sort of group of immortals that spend too much time looking after a dying race.. is that right? are they in the HW? No, they are located in some out of the way place in the Known World -- perhaps somewhere in Ylaruam. They are described in the Creature Catalog, _Wrath of the Immortals_, and the B1-9 collection. That last reference should give you an idea how weak this race is, since a party of 3d level adventurers could conceivably wipe them out. As for what they are like -- basically, they are psychotic, in the clinical sense. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 00:17:54 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Undersea Genealogies? In a message dated 98-02-03 17:51:49 EST, ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu writes: >I'm not sure what the Locathah is, but the Kuo-toa are a serpent man >species, right? Locathah are a race of aquatic humanoids -- they could well be present somewhere in the seas of Mystara without making a big difference in the grand scheme. Kuo-toa are fish-like humanoids who live not under the sea but in caverns in the Underdark. They are probably not found on Mystara. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 00:17:55 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Undersea Genealogies? In a message dated 98-02-03 17:51:49 EST, ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu writes: >You think? That's a possibility I hadn't considered. I forget- are >Mollusks cold-blooded? Because that's part of what I based my theory on (the fact that they seem to require remaining in the presence of hot water- volcanoes, etc.- implies to me that they are cold blooded). I think the only living animals that are not cold blooded are mammals and birds. For all other creatures, body temperature tends to be close to the surrounding temperature. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 23:45:59 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Netlogo Winner Announcement! >If I'm correctly remembering which one "Netlogo Entry #3" was -- the orangy-yellow one with the trellis in behind I believe -- that was one of the three I would have picked between if I hadn't voted for one of my own instead ;-) That's it ;) >Just out of curiosity, I'd be interested in knowing which entries were in the top five, and what the actual number of votes were for those choices. As you say, there were a lot of good ones, and even if Andrew's managed to suck up twice as many as the runner up, it would be interesting to see where the other votes went. Alrighty ;) Entry #3 - 32 votes Entry #15 - 17 votes Entry #6 & #17 - 12 votes Entry #7 - 10 votes Entry #8 - 4 votes - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:06:13 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cynidicea, Barimoor, Dythestenia, Nithia, and Tuma do you still have the maps? m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >>which brings us to the subject of Barimoor ... one motivation he may have in establishing his base under Nithia is to collect dark secrets of past ages he was not meant to know about. perhaps his underground tunnels connect to those of the broken landers, shadow elves, hardanger kobolds, and Cynidicea. I would like to hear more thoughts on all of these from anyone who's got them. >Actually for an earlier campaign I made a series of caverns which linked all these places together. Although the characters have never been to the Ylaruam portion I made sure to make them almost the center of the network... >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 09:49:16 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis At 09:51 02-02-98 -0600, you wrote: >Responding to the message of Mon, 02 Feb 1998 16:27:13 +0100 from Lille My : >>so why not try an evil clan of dwarves, that have perfected the art of building useful underground houses filled with traps and what about some underground haflings, gnomes or humans? >>Lille My >Actually, that sounds interesting. Halflings wouldn't have far to go... and the dwarves and gnomes are already there, Underground humans tho... I'd be interested in seeing a society of them worked out... maybe I'll do one sometime, but where to put em... A really interesting place might be underneath the sunken Alphatia. Imagine that the really poor citizens of some of Alphatias major cities lived in warrens underneath and that some survived and moved even further down below, as the only thing above them would be water. Large clans of wererats (doesn't PC4 mention them or is it in Thyatis they live?) might also live down there. So a society based on outsiders, perhaps they think they are the Chosen as they survived the Catastrophe, which were send by the immortals to punish the magic-users. They are divided into two groups, those who are searching for a new way up and those who believes that there is no surface left, but that the whole world is covered with water. Also don't forgot B4 (can't remember the title) about underground dwelling humans and the Creature Catalogue also mentions cavedwellers. Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 13:12:46 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes At 10:41 02-02-98 -0500, you wrote: >At 03:30 PM 2/2/98 +0100, you wrote: >My own paladins are generally cavalier types (the 2nd Edition kit from Fighter's Handbook, which is balanced enough for me), and I always try to play them with a nobility that isn't stuffy. Yes, they're knights and better than common people, but they're not arrogant about it. As for stuffy, paladins have a 17 charisma; how does that make them stuffy? If people play them as they are supposed to be played, then there's simply no room for "stuffy". They are shining examples of what people can aspire to be, not objects of ridicule or the butt of jokes. >BTW, paladins are my favorite class. I have always found the paladin interesting, but I have never had a chance to play one. I sort of have dreamed up a fighter that one day would like to play, now i just have to find the right campaign. This fighter fulfills all the requirements of the paladin, he is faithful and a better swordsman, more devout and better trained than many paladisn and his greatest wish is to become one, however he can't, as he just a little bit too chaotic. So close to become what he always have dreamed of, but he unable, though all requirements are fulfilled. Sort of a tragic character. >>Lets see, here are some of the dominant stereotypes that often pop up: The stuffy or lawful stupid paladin >Never seen one in a well-played campaign. Or in any campaign, actually. The examples I mentioned were not something that I myself usually runs into, but I always like to hear how other solves this kind of problems. That can be good inspiration. >>The 5 Int Barbarian (or is this the maximum requirement for Int?) >That's the tribal leader, right? >>Great elven mages of the past >Why does every campaign have to have a 'great ancient elven civilization'? If they are so powerful, how did they get displaced by humans? Perhaps the game designers just happens to be a little too humonacentric. Well the elves are, by tradition, great mages, but that would spoil the campaign world, so they get displaced by the fertile humans. That sounds like an awful thin solution. If the elves were just a bit nasty, they might choose to enslave or keep the humans down. That the humans take up a lot of space still doesn't answer the problem of elves falling from grace, why should it all be lost? Unless ofcourse a war, but if the elves can keep their borders clear, why then would their great civilizations fall? Maybe the gamedesigners had something for the Greek and Roman empires. Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 13:13:07 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: Underground races (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis) On Tue, 3 Feb 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 98-02-03 11:52:37 EST, ccosman@huntingdon.edu writes: >>We were both anaware of the Cynidiceans... tho now >>that I see the name I remember some sort of group of immortals that spend too much time looking after a dying race.. is that right? are they in the HW? >No, they are located in some out of the way place in the Known World -- perhaps somewhere in Ylaruam. They are described in the Creature Catalog, _Wrath of the Immortals_, and the B1-9 collection. That last reference should give you an idea how weak this race is, since a party of 3d level adventurers could conceivably wipe them out. >As for what they are like -- basically, they are psychotic, in the clinical sense. If they weren't I'd suggest we'd have them transported into HW. But they aren't really worth it, are they? Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 22:53:03 +1030 From: "Cunningham" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Netlogo Contest and other things Curious... Hey everybody :), I'd just like to say thanks to everyone who voted for the Mystara Logo I designed :) I gotta say that I was amazed cause there were sooo many other designs which were easily just as good. Also, thanks to Galwylin and to Jenni for the compliments ;) Now that I'm on this buzz I just thought I'd mention that I'm working on a Mystara Character Generator program which will run under the MacOS and Java (I haven't got a windows compiler yet...). I was wondering if anyones interested, it might speed thing up a bit. Also, are there any out there already? Anyways I've got homework to do :P Thanks again, C'ya, Andrew *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #46 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:22:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #47 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Wednesday, February 4 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 047 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cynidicea, Barimoor, Dythestenia, Nithia, and Tuma Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: Underground races (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis) Re: [MYSTARA] - Creature Crucibles? Re: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics [MYSTARA] - re: glantrian economy Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for Bellissaria? Re: [MYSTARA] - Mortal Identities (was: no subject) Re: [MYSTARA] - Avatars (warning: long story) Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Creature Crucibles? Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 08:10:40 -0800 From: jdaly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cynidicea, Barimoor, Dythestenia, Nithia, and Tuma Yes, in fact I do. I could scan them here at work and send them to you...They are done in a fairly large scale because of the large area they pertain to. Matthew Levy wrote: >do you still have the maps? >>>anyone who's got them. >>Actually for an earlier campaign I made a series of caverns which linked all these places together. Although the characters have never been to the Ylaruam portion I made sure to make them almost the center of the network... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 08:18:43 -0800 From: jdaly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes >Perhaps the game designers just happens to be a little too humonacentric. I have seen games that are not so humanocentric. But they tend to not do so well. I think it has something to do with the beings who actually PLAY the game...:) >Well the elves are, by tradition, great mages, but that would spoil the campaign world, so they get displaced by the fertile humans. That sounds like an awful thin solution. If the elves were just a bit nasty, they might choose to enslave or keep the humans down. That the humans take up a lot of space still doesn't answer the problem of elves falling from grace, why should it all be lost? Unless ofcourse a war, but if the elves can keep their borders clear, why then would their great civilizations fall? Maybe the gamedesigners had something for the Greek and Roman empires. The answer for 'why' there is always a dying great elven civilization is pretty simple. Most fantasy games, especially those which can be termed 'epic' fantasy, are at least loosely based on The Lord of the Rings. In that trilogy there were several fantastic races but all were in decline. It was the dawn of the race of man. Now it seems to me that Mystara should break this mold somewhat. I like the idea of the elves every now and then referring enigmatically to "Lost Evergrun over the sea", but this does not have to mean that every elven nation is in decline. In fact, I see their civilization as being no more in decline than any of the relatively young human and dwarven nations that have arisen out of the ashes of dead Blackmoor. I see it as a point of uniqueness that Mystara has two high magic nations in which wonders are continually being produced and nations in general that are on the rise rather than the decline. This is different from Krynn, and Toril, and Greyhawk in which most of the magic items the players find are from the ancient golden ages. Yes, there should be relics from the past in Mystara--this always adds flavor to the campaign. But having nations that are producing wonders in 'the today' makes our world unique. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 08:21:19 -0800 From: jdaly Subject: Re: Underground races (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis) >>As for what they (Cydnicieans) are like -- basically, they are psychotic, in the clinical sense. >If they weren't I'd suggest we'd have them transported into HW. But they aren't really worth it, are they? Buncha degenerates! Then again, there are several of those in the Hollow World, aren't there? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:12:44 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Creature Crucibles? On Sat, 31 Jan 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: ><< Do you think that is an amazing feat? >> >Yes, and a last question: >Do you REALLY think that Mystara is a >serious campaign.? I think most settings including Mystara can be used with any style of gaming. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:15:05 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker On Sat, 31 Jan 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: ><< I though it was Das Boden meaning floor/ground and drucker being a >meaning one who presses. Ie one who presses the ground. But thrn again I'm not German. >Haavard >> >Not too bad, Havard! But a German says "Der Boden". In articles English is really simpler. Thanks. I havent really been practicing my German for years. Articles in German are quite tricky. We do have three in Norwegian as well, but they make more sense. (to me anyway) Haavard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:03:01 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics In a message dated 98-02-03 17:05:47 EST, you write: << Thanks, Alex, for the really interesting and useful info on ship combat ... This clarifies things a lot and I am going to go back and read through your Operation Hydra posts to glean more details and ideas. Now I have some follow up questions:>> You're welcome. I'll give your questions a shot. But I'll warn you, I am an idiot. <<1) I was reading a Military History Quarterly article about the Battle of Lepanto, which was fought by the Italians and Spanish against the Turks in 1571. It had a fairly detailed description of the light galleys used during that period, and much of the tactical information accords with what you had to say. One detail that you didn't mention was that on the light galleys all the artillery is on a foredeck ... the sides of the ship are unarmed. This makes head-on attacks on your opponent's flanks vitally important. How is the artillery (catapults and ballistas) on Thyatin war galleys set up?>> First off, great way to research the subject. Look to RW's past. Galleys- There are two types of Thyatian Galleys; large and small. Due to size differences the cargo capacity differs. I haven't seen the specs for a large galley, but DotE has a drawing of a small galley on the fold up map. I'll have to get to you on that one as I do not have the map in question readily available. But to give another example, an Alphatian Man of War (skyship) have decks of ballista and catapults. The main deck has 18 catapults. The artillery deck has 12 ballsta. The forecastle sports 5 ballista. The stern castle 4 ballista and 2 catapults. I based my Thyatian Large War Galley after the Alphatian Man of War. <<2) I was reading in the same place about the Turkish pirate Khair ed Din (Barbarossa), who would land his galleys backwards on the beach, with the guns pointing out to sea, as a kind of makeshift fortification for the archers, musketeers, and marines ... is this tactic used in Mystara?>> Well thats what Galleys really were, floating fortresses. I do not see why such tactics couln't be used. In Hydra I used the Galleys to sale in close to provide such arty fire for the landing Marines. They also were used in providing support fire and counterartillery fire against stronghold. Do what you want to do, but I remind you that once the cat is out of the bag, the tactic will be expected not to mention copied. <<3) This article also mentioned a ship called a galleass, which was a galley with an extra artillery deck on the sides so that it WOULD have firepower like a galleon ... are these used by any Mystaran navy?>> The only vessel that comes to mind is the Alphatian Man of War.The MoW has such a deck with closable ports to fire the ballista through. <<4) You portray galleys as lumbering and slow, but according to both the movement rates in the AD&D DMG (2nd edition) and the article I read, movement under oar is actually faster than movement under sail (even though sailing ships are indeed faster than *sailed* galleys) ... although I think you are right about them being less maneuverable. Am I misreading this one?>> I think the movement rates are for both rows and sails being used at the same time. I think that is detailed in Minrothad Gaz. Or maybe the Ierendi Gaz. IIRC the speed is only good for short periods such as attempting a ram attack. Yes, I do feel maneuverability is lacking on a galley. But what I did not mention is my belief that a galley is more of a stable platform to fire arty that a sailing ship. Due to the shallower and wider keel, which also allows for travel through shallower waters. <<5) There is a kind of Byzantine ship listed in the DMG called a Dromon, which is a type of galley. Wouldn't this be appropriate for the Thyatins (who are quasi-Byzantine)? I think dromons used greek fire in their catapults. Shouldn't Mystara have Thyatin Fire? (maybe Milenian fire?)>> IMO it is Alphatia that was more akin to Byzantium. Thyatis is more of the Western Roman Empire. As far as Greek Fire, why not. But I imagine that Alphatia would have greater access to it than Thyatis due to the magical/alchemy aspect. Still, why not Thyatis. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. << 6) I don't know much about galleons. can they be rowed as well as sailed, or are they just big sailing ships?>> Galleons are big ole hunking ships. The Spanish used such vessels. Galleons were sail driven. They were more or less floating fortresses. Multiple decks of guns and a sizable crew. Spanish galleons were prone to grapple and board an enemy vessel after the arty had crippled it. Capturing a vessel earned the crew and captain more prestige and money. so my questions are: <> For Hydra, I gave the Galleys a daily movement rate (24 hours) of 40 miles. There was some deviation plus and minus to reflect weather conditions and familiarity with waters. Devide the total distance by this number. Add a few days to compensate for weather, assembling, offloading, onloading, and treading carefully through reefs and such. <> I've always heard that galleys suffer in rough open waters. But then again, the Romans used galleys all over their empire. There was a rather large naval clash in the English Channel area. The galleys prevailed when the winds failed the agile sail driven enemy vessels. Then there are the Vikings and their longships sailing to Greenland and possibly North America. A longship is different than a galley but the premise is there. I'd say crew quality weighs heavily on a galley's performance in long distance open water journeys. <> Stick with the Galley. It works. And it fits with the Thyatian aspect. <> In traveling a coastline always remember that movement is slowed to keep an eye out for underwater hazards such as reefs, sand bars, and the ever popular rocks. I'd suggest reducing speed to 2/3 or 1/2 for traveling within sight of the coast and 1/3 for getting within shouting distance. <> Depends. Given the number of troops, I would have used a flotilla of small war galleys. Three would allow ample room for supplies and troops. Though the troops would bitch as they are allotted more time at rowing. A large War Galley can carry up to 300 Marines so I really see no reason for deviation. Though you might want to hire more troops to distribute the rowing. <> The Minrothad Gaz answers this. I don't have it handy but IIRC it says that a month's supply of provisions are usually carried. Off hand, i'd say a month sounds right. Given the military aspect, extra provisions, especially iron rations and water should be kept for emergencies. IIRC both Min Gaz and DMG (ad&d) give the the cargo capacities. The Gaz also gives the consequences for provisions running low; morale, disease, and effectiveness. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:26:07 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Morrow Subject: [MYSTARA] - re: glantrian economy <<1.Where do you think the borders of Fenswick should be? On the map in G:KoM, they seem to be the same as the old duchy, but I would think Dolores would have expanded them a bit. Suggestions?>> One of the PWAs mentioned Prince Jaggar petitioning to expand Fenwicks borders before it became a Principality. Since these expanded borders were never defined, here are my (completely arbitrary) ideas: Southern border- shared with Belcadiz Western and Northern borders follow the Fen River Eastern border in the north extends 8 miles (1 hex) further than the original borders, then travels directly south to meet the Belcadiz border 8 miles (I hex) North west of Alhambra. <<2.Well, obviously if humans founded a dominion in the area of the Crater, they would treat is as wilderness. But what about Prince Kol? Do you think he has some sort of infrastructure to collect taxes from the humanoids, or does he rule nothing but a patch of wilderness (that would make him very poor)?>> As has been mentioned by others, Kol undoubtedly has an unusualy organized (for a humanoid) government, even more so than Thars pre-WotI. The Council of Princes are certainly going to want tax income from this area, but probably wont look to closely into where it comes from (as long as the number of raids into the rest of Glantri are kept at an acceptable level.) This brings me to my problem with the whole thing: Kol should have never become a Prince in the first place. 1- Glantrian nobles are supposed to be 9th level wizards who have graduated from the Great School or performed a great task for the Council. Kol fulfills none of these requirements. 2- How would he secure an Act of Enfeofment for the region? There arent even any Glantrian citizens there. 3- Four principalities have already been created since 1000 AC. The princes are likely very reluctant to create any more. Each new prince reduces the relative power of the others, both in the Council and in Parliment. Granting Kol a principality reduces their own power for very little return. He becomes a power onto himself (although a weak one) in Glantrian politics. Why would the Princes want such a thing? I would think it far more likely that the Council would recognize Kolland as an independent nation and set up diplomatic relations, most likely leading to some arrangement like that with High Goblinry chronicled in the first module of the Blood Bretheren trilogy. In that similar situation the Council payed a hefty yearly bribe to the goblins to reduce raids into Glantri. The question of Kol's principality leads to a seperate issue that I am interested in. Since 1000 AC Glantri has lost a barony, a viscounty, a county, and a duchy to the creation of principalities (Morlay, Malibois, Skullhorn Pass, and Fenwick). They have also lost 2 viscounties, 2 counties, and 2 principalities to the meteor (Redstone, Nathrat, Wylon,Soth-Kabree, Blackhill, and Caurenze). A quick count of the remaining titles, not including those affiliated with the Principalities leaves: Baron 8 Marquis 3 Viscount 4 Duke 1 Count 2 Archduke 1 The number of nobles in Parliment has been reduced considerably, and chances for advancement of existing nobles have become slim. From a DM's point of view, this cuts down on some of the political infighting that makes Glantri so interesting. I think the Princes would support the creation of new dominions, each fighting for locations beneficial to them and backing their own cantidates. The Parliment would also support this move, since each new dominion provides an opportunity for the current nobles to advance in rank and increase their power. There is plenty of room in the free territories, why not use it? Comments? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:47:47 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for Bellissaria? In a message dated 98-02-03 12:22:16 EST, you write: << Wondering about the subject? O.k., here some thoughts: Despite of some federal structures in the Alphatian Empire (AE) the whole thing was pretty centralistic. First came the Island of Alphatia, then a long time nothing and finally the rest. Norwold was good for incapable children of nobles, the Isle of Dawn was a battleground, the Alatians were an experiment, Esterhold was a big mining center and slavehunter place and Bellissaria was the bread basket of the AE. After the WotI the center was gone. After forming the NAE one question arose. Where will the center of power and civilization be? The newest developments say IONACE, former Monster Island and Denwarf-Hurgon. But IMO the Island is too small, too mountainous and too dangerous to be this center. The only logical choice is Bellissaria, big and civilized, although developable. I see Bellissiaria sinking into nothingness once again and I think that it deserves a better fate. Don't forget that Bellissaria has the greatest landmass of the NACE and doesn't face the problems of the IoD (Thyatis), Esterhold (Rock Deserts and Jennites) or IONACE (monsters of all sorts). And now I declare the discussion opened. Participate and read the text below. >> I have to agree with Khan on this. Bellissaria kind of got shafted on the whole IONACE deal. BTW anyone ever wondered why the heck the Council opted for IONACE. I know the "neutral ground" theory (simular to Washington DC) but what about the Mnemonics Mineral found there. Given the prolonged affects of exposure, seems like the last place wizards would want to hang out. And I say this because surely the mineral would seep into the island's water table and contaminate the drinking water. Anyone ever done any work on the mnemonics mineral? I have kind of worked up a theory that the mineral is not found only on Ionace. It is everywhere in Alphatia. The majority of the Alphatian water table was contaminated with the mineral, ever be it in highly deluted amounts. The drop of spellcasters reflect the ingestion of the contaminated water. The high delution factors in the inability to learn instead of halting all spellcasting. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:51:10 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mortal Identities (was: no subject) In a message dated 98-02-03 12:46:43 EST, you write: < I have read the WotI. In fact I have read it several times. Not only the
> No actually, I think we are coming to different conclusions. Or at least a difference of opinion and game use. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:05:09 -0800 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Avatars (warning: long story) >This is where I contradict myself. I can imagine that while during their quest >for Immortality, a person could pick up on the class traits of his fellow adventurers. >But would it to be of a degree that he could mimic them to be able to pass for >one in his Mortal Guise. >>From my responses, you can easily see the uncertainty I have on this matter. >There is evidence and theory to go either way. I am not sure I even understand the question fully. While I have the new immortal rules I tend to base my immortals on the gold box/master's set rather than the new simplified rules. However, I have taken the descriptions and "specialization" ideas from the new and incorporated them into my campaign. Therefore perhaps I am misunderstanding what you are asking... In my view, as I stated earlier, the Immortal has become more than what he was. He is no longer mortal. This does not mean that he simply is a mortal mind now in an eternal body. His mind and body and spirit have all transcended the mortal. As such, he can choose to be a warrior, cleric, thief, mage, or even a non human. Heck, he can choose to be an ant if he wishes. Not merely transport his huge mind into the form of an ant...No, he can actually make himself an ant despite the fact that he has no "experience" being an ant. Remember the end of "Highlander"? I see the transformation into Immortal as being similar. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 11:25:16 -0800 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics ><<5) There is a kind of Byzantine ship listed in the DMG called a Dromon, which is a type of galley. Wouldn't this be appropriate for the Thyatins (who are quasi-Byzantine)? I think dromons used greek fire in their catapults. Shouldn't Mystara have Thyatin Fire? (maybe Milenian fire?)>> >IMO it is Alphatia that was more akin to Byzantium. Thyatis is more of the Western Roman Empire. As far as Greek Fire, why not. But I imagine that Alphatia would have greater access to it than Thyatis due to the magical/alchemy aspect. Still, why not Thyatis. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Maybe I did not understand the question or the reply or both. But the THYATIAN Dromon that was detailed in DotE was, ahem, Thyatian. It was a cool ship and one suited to the Thyatians as the less magical nation. Let the Alphatians have their skyships and the Thyatians have their scorpians. As for the Byzantium thing...well, in the very first description of the Thyatian Empire (X1 Isle of Dread) they are spoken of as being similar to the Byzantium empire. To my way of thinking this set a precedence for "an empire in decline" early on. Later, when an exciting conflict was sought by the designers, the Thyatian Empire was revived as more Roman than Byzantium and therefore more "on the rise". IMC it is explained like this: The description in X1 is referring to Emperor Gabrionus' time (Just before Thincol). His time was one of decline with a corrupt Senate really leading the country and himself not doing too much of note. When Thincol took over the empire was spurred to new life, and Alphatia by a little irony had to wake up as well. In short I don't see either one as the Byzantium anymore. Thyatis is more like it was in its middle life I think. Still growing as a country but definately an EMPIRE at this point. Alphatia should really relate too much to any real world country IMO. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 11:36:05 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) In a message dated 98-02-03 13:40:35 EST, you write: << << Pardon? What do you mean with "neglected"? The rules (note: i'm speaking referring to the rules) for the Immortals (old and new) explicitely say that once the Immortal leaves the MI, the MI DISAPPEARS with all its gear! So how can it develop a soul of its own?? Maybe u haven't understood, but the Immortal IS the MI, they're ONE! Maybe you're referring to Avatars (another matter), but this is not what I have been talking about. Avatar is not a Mortal Identity. >>DM Thanks, Marco! Finally there is somebody out there who has read and understood (!) the rules. I was fighting a lonely fight. The whole theories about mortal identities break in exactly this point. >> Jamuga Khan Ah I see. The "different conclusions" center on mortal identities as compared to avatars. I myself do not use avatars. WotI does state it is an option. Or at least that is what I've read. Therefore, I tend to focus Immortal attention on MIs. The question of the longevity of a MI depends on the Immortal that created it. Without the avatar, the MI takes on an added role in the Immortal inventory. As such, a MI could be rationalized as having an established background. That is if the Immortal sees that as vital to its pursuits. A MI's tenure can as brief as hooking up with a PC party to steer them in a certain direction. Or it can be as long as establishing a person to spy on an area and subtly manipulate the populace to the Immortal's ends. The latter requires more attention to detail. A history and position in the local social structure must be well thought out. A simple tavern keeper or craftsman comes to mind. As such, skills and the attitudes and structure of a MI is needed. The locals would be suspicious of someone with no ties. A MI could take spouse and have a child or two to frame the picture of an ordinary human. Prince Etienne d'Ambreville comes to mind as an established MI. Be it Etienne was already establish in mortal life prior to attaining Immortality. This of course makes the background easier to accomplish. You know, in all of my years of gaming, I have never had a MI exposed. I have left a party of PCs puzzled and curious about one or two. But never has one been revealed. Usually the curiosity gives reason for the PCs to further their investigations. IMC I have an Immortal named Noland. He has maintain several lifelong MIs. As mentioned several have taken a wife and children resulted. For the most part, the MIs are not dramatic folks. Tavernkeepers and smiths are their main preoccupation. In life, Noland was keen on these two occupations. He served as a blacksmith in the early years of his service to the Blackmoor Army. He also enjoyed the company felt in taverns. He is comfortable with both of these two roles and neither unbalance the game. Both also allow him the simple mortal pleasures in life. Some of his duties require assuming a super powerful NPC to handle certain mortal problems. These are all allowed by the Immortal Council. Noland sees them as a trial by combat. This method centers on the Delegathot, a people on Davania cursed by Tarastia for corrupting her ideology. The Delegathot are isolated to atone for their sins. Upon entering the mists to escape, a 36th lvl NPC MI of Noland is called upon to confront the escapee. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 11:45:07 -0500 From: Ray Brooks Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Creature Crucibles? I have to agree with you Håvard. I have seen Mystara campaigns that are deadly-serious, don't-give-an-inch affairs. The players expected no quarter and offered none in return. I've also seen and DMed campaigns with a bit more balance between the extremes, and then there have been games that have been almost entirely light-hearted and whimsical. It really depends on what you are after and how the material you use is presented. Ray Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >>Do you REALLY think that Mystara is a >>serious campaign.? >I think most settings including Mystara can be used with any style of gaming. >Håvard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 11:54:09 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis In a message dated 98-02-03 13:40:43 EST, you write: << << I like the idea of the Alphatian Gaz. The info is present though scattered about. IMO the space constraints of DotE was a factor in this. Also, Alphatia is kind of a secondary setting for PCs which for the most part would not fit well into Alphatian society (fighters, theives). Also, Alphatia is an almost legendary, mystical land. Stuff like that is pretty hard to put down in ink. Perhaps, Allston thought that chore (detailing Alphatia) was more up to the individual DM. >> I'm waiting impatiently for the NET GAZETTEER FOR ALPHATIA. >>Jamuga Khan Huh? I suspect a bit of miscommunication. I too would like to see a more detailed Gaz for Alphatia. I had thought it apprpriate to voice my own opinions as to why DotE was less than thorough. With my opinion that Aaron Allston left the mysterious land of Alphatia for the DM to fill out, I feel that is time for the DMs of the List to take on the task. Ah but where to find the time......? Things like that take time. From my own experience, I have to applaud the efforts of folks like Bruce Heard, Aaron Allston, and the Net Almanac Folks. Anyone want to claim any specific Alphatian Kingdom? Anyone want to head up this project? Alex you know the one that doesn't know what he is talking about but isn't afraid of implementing his own ideas or voicing his own opinions :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:03:08 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) In a message dated 98-02-03 16:53:08 EST, you write: << On Tue, 3 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: >Thanks, Marco! Finally there is somebody out there who has read and understood (!) the rules. I was fighting a lonely fight. The whole theories about mortal identities break in exactly this point. And, as I have said before, there comes a time when one must allow reason to take over and say "screw the rules". >> Thanks BJM10. Finally there is someone out there that has read and understood the rules. But hasn't limited themselves to strictly adhering to those rules and utilized what works best in his or her own campaign. "IMC" is the most powerful term in D&D. And from the frequent use of it on the List, I am sure that I am not the only one that has deviated from the original Basic Rules. Alex little ole me *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 12:20:39 -0800 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis I feel that is time for the DMs of the List to take on the >task. Ah but where to find the time......? Things like that take time. From my own experience, I have to applaud the efforts of folks like Bruce Heard, Aaron Allston, and the Net Almanac Folks. >Anyone want to claim any specific Alphatian Kingdom? Anyone want to head up this project? It occurs to me that, unlike most threads, this one has retained it's subject title the entire time and yet makes sense. I am not sure I said that clearly. What I am trying to say is, "Brainstorming Atlantis" is still an appropriate title despite the fact that it has been a fairly long lived thread. Anyway, since I am currently working on Aasla, as it is the first city/kingdom to be approached by my pcs, I will present what info I come up with for everyone's enjoyment. Before the end of the week I expect to have this kingdom done and posted. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #47 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 20:24:04 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #48 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Wednesday, February 4 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 048 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics [none] Re: [MYSTARA] - Undersea Genealogies? Re: [MYSTARA] - Undersea Genealogies? Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics Re: Underground races (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: Underground races (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis) Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker Re: [MYSTARA] - Cynidicea, Barimoor, Dythestenia, Nithia, and Tuma Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis Re: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker Re: [MYSTARA] - Cynidicea, Barimoor, Dythestenia, Nithia, and Tuma Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for Bellissaria? Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics [MYSTARA] - Scanned Maps (Was Re: Cynidicea, Barimoor, ....) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:51:23 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics In a message dated 98-02-04 11:43:14 EST, you write: << > <<5) There is a kind of Byzantine ship listed in the DMG called a Dromon, >which is a type of galley. Wouldn't this be appropriate for the Thyatins (who are quasi-Byzantine)? I think dromons used greek fire in their catapults. Shouldn't Mystara have Thyatin Fire? (maybe Milenian fire?)>> >IMO it is Alphatia that was more akin to Byzantium. Thyatis is more of the Western Roman Empire. As far as Greek Fire, why not. But I imagine that Alphatia would have greater access to it than Thyatis due to the magical/alchemy aspect. Still, why not Thyatis. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. <> Just trying to answer someones questions. I never said the Droman was or wasn't Thyatian. I don't have the info handy so I withheld comment. I suggested Greek Fire could be used by Thyatis. But I voiced my reasons for Alphatia to use it as well. <> The whole Byzantine/Rome aspect was discussed in the old AOL TSR Online Forum for Mystara. Bruce Heard had some particular insight on it all (gee,I wonder why :-)). IIRC Thyatis was more Rome due to the Senate. Alphatia was more Byzantine due to the Asian/Middle Eastern influence Constantinople/Byzantium absorbed. I think the rivalry between Thyatis and Alphatia fits with the rivalry between the Eastern and Western Roman Empires. Note that Rome was not always the picture of togas and decadent sex orgies. As the Empire aged, the togas were dropped. The orgies were a different matter. Also, Thincol well represents the later stage Roman Emperors in that he is of a conquered barbarian people. <> I'll agree with that. Still, I like the two as I laid out. The two rival empires, simular yet different, reminds me much of the two Roman Empires. Alphatia being more exotic due to the influx of magic, reflects the arabic influence of Byzantium. Thyatis being influenced by the people of Brun reflects the influence of the European peoples. <> I agree. But such a period of decline is natural for an empire. It's part of the growing process. The trick is adapting and overcoming the decline. << When Thincol took over the empire was spurred to new life, and Alphatia by a little irony had to wake up as well.>> I disagree. IMO Alphatia never did wake up. They watched Thincol's reign but would not or could not get their stuff together to keep the Thincol Thyatis in check. If they ever woke up, it was during WotI. <> Oh yes I agree. Neither is clear cut an image of Rome or Byzantium. Each do lean toward one and in some cases both. But then, Byzantium and Rome were once one and the same. Territorial influences gave cause to each to go on their own social structure and personality. The official splitting of the Roman Empire just made it official. An interesting notion would be if Alphatia or Thyatis had been able to conquer the other and assimilate the two empires together. It could have been a reversal of the history of the Roman Empire. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 14:04:03 -0800 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics >The whole Byzantine/Rome aspect was discussed in the old AOL TSR Online Forum for Mystara. Bruce Heard had some particular insight on it all (gee,I wonder why :-)). Wow, really? Do you have a transcript? >IIRC Thyatis was more Rome due to the Senate. Alphatia was more Byzantine due to the Asian/Middle Eastern influence Constantinople/Byzantium absorbed. This makes sense. By the way, a question I have had for a while: Just what color is copper anyway??? Do the Alphatians look like Asians? That is the way I picture them but minus the eyefolds. ><< When Thincol took over the empire was spurred to new life, and Alphatia by >a little irony had to wake up as well.>> >I disagree. IMO Alphatia never did wake up. They watched Thincol's reign but would not or could not get their stuff together to keep the Thincol Thyatis in >check. If they ever woke up, it was during WotI. Let me explain better...I see Alphatia as being in a constant decline almost from the moment they set foot on Mystara. Any society, in fact, that relies on slavery is going to find itself in decline. By "waking up" I meant...oh heck, I don't really know what I meant. I think I just wanted to express something real quick without going into detail...plus I am biased in favor of the Alphatians. But I see the rise of Eriadna to the throne of Alphatia as being promising. More than any other emperors in history (That part is definately IMC as we don't see very much comparison between Thyatian and Alphatian emperors) Eriadna and Thincol were like two sides of a highly charged coin. Well, lets say a magnetic coin. They are opposite poles. One is extremely chaotic in nature but holds herself in check and appears very lawful. The other is more lawful by nature doing what must be done to maintain his power, an almost surgical process, but he is given to the occasional fit of rage or passion. By the way, as corny as it may have been, I love the exploration of the passionate side of these two given in Talons of Night. >An interesting notion would be if Alphatia or Thyatis had been able to conquer >the other and assimilate the two empires together. It could have been a reversal of the history of the Roman Empire. Granted it would be interesting...leading me to some thought on a what-if/alternate reality series of games (what if the Radiance had been allowed to go on depleting magic, what if there was no Radiance, what if Alphatia won, what if Thyatis won, what if the war was fought and ended up destroying the world...?) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 14:30:42 -0800 From: Daly Subject: [none] THE KINGDOM OF HAVEN Ruler: Important Personages: Philosophy: There are two ways of looking at the obsession citizens of Haven have with beautification. The first is the outsider who docks at the great port of Aasla. What greets him is an enormous city that, while not as big as Sundsvall, is larger than most in the Known World. The outsider looks in awe at the gently sculpted buildings with their delicate stonework etching the corners. At first he is bewildered by the size and beauty of the structures but a friendly resident happily points out that any building in Aasla is quite easy to find. If the outsider seeks a tavern, look for earthy browns and greens. If he is instead interested in a magic shop, he should look for sky blue. Any building can be found quickly in this manner. But after some time passes the outsider becomes aware of the neglect to certain "details" because of the importance of beautification. Certain corners of the kingdom are dangerous to travel through because even the army is used more often than not for appearance. The soldier is often part of the decoration of a government building or is busy preparing for the next big parade. Parades are a familiar sight incidently. Not because of patriotic fervor, they are held for the beauty of the march. Complex patterns of marching with the soldiers twirling their staves and playing lively music are what constitute a parade in Haven. Nowhere is the danger of travel seen more than in the south east where a county, held by one of the non-spellcasting governers of the Kingdom of Haven, is in constant danger of incursions by bandits, undead, and lizardmen from the Great Southern Swamp. As this is a major land trade route to the capital of the empire, something will have to be done soon. The queen is likely to prefer hiring a party to clean out the swamp rather than taking steps that might deplete the royal funds and take away from her own artistic pleasures. The second way of seeing the obsession with art by the common Haven citizen, is one of patriotism. About 2000 years ago the empire was run by Emperor Kerothar. He was a vicious self important man who sought to dominate the new world to which his people had arrived. An intelligent farseeing wizardess by the name of Aasla led her people to what would be known as Haven (for it was a haven from the power hungry people of the central empire)and taught them to strive for peace. She went on to become an immortal and looks after the empire as an immortal by the name of Alphatia. She named herself Alphatia not because she wanted to be the "head" of the pantheon of her people, rather she saw the need for a new way of looking at things. In some ways she saw taking the name Alphatia as an apology to their former world. There the "Alphatians" were known as Atlanteans and it was the world that was called "Alphatia". In her own mind, taking the name Alphatia was like an admittance of guilt for what happened to devastate their former world. As Alphatia she strives to teach her people peace. Now it was about 300 years ago that a powerful wizardess named Myrletendal looked at the empire in all its chaotic glory and decided that a new direction was needed. Just as the visionary Aasla led her people in what she thought was right, Myrletendal saw the mixed colors of the buildings and the wild sprawling forests as needing direction. She began the idea of 'beautification' along a strict code of colorization and harmony. Her philosophy spread over the entire kingdom and in some cases the entire empire. Now, followers of this philosophy see it as their patriotic duty to see that the colors of their clothes and buildings match pleasantly. Outsiders should be in awe of Alphatia not only for their incredible magical achievements but also for their superior taste and wisdom in constructional beauty. What normally appears to an outsider as a disinterest in "what's important" is not truly disinterest. The rulers and artists of Haven are quite interested in bringing the criminals to justice--they just don't want to be the ones to do it. That is the job of someone else. "Hire an adventurer, send the army, elect an official, whatever it takes. My job is to design the orchard that will grow in the middle of this here town in a few days and its got to be done right." Army: Colors: The colors of the Kingdom of Haven are all 9. The heraldic shield is actually represented by a round shield and the colors spray straight out from the center. Properly done, one cannot tell where one color begins and another ends. Ultraviolet and Infrared are represented on the circle. Flag: The same color circle but on a white background. The white symbolizes peace. The color circle was added 200 years ago replacing a broken sword. Imports: Exports: *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 16:36:47 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Undersea Genealogies? << For that matter, while we're on the subject, where the heck did the fairies come from? are they minor immortals? how do they relate to the spirits? what do they have to do with halflings (who look a lot like Brownies?) >> They are retired immortals who were on the side of the losers in the last REALLY big immortals war. As they were more or less neutral they were stripped to their nowadays status and are waiting for better times (exact informations in PC1 - Tall Tales of the Wee Folk). << this makes some sense. I don't know about actual mollusks (I don't even know if mollusks HAVE blood ... please don't go cut open an octopus to find out, I don't want that on my conscience) but it makes sense that the Kopru would be cold blooded. >> IIRC, they have, but it's more blue than red because it's not based on iron but on copper. Hm, is there really no zoologist under us? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 16:36:46 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Undersea Genealogies? << Maybe I'm misremembering my Zoology, but aren't fish descended from the oceanic dinosaurs, much in the way it is now believed birds are descended from the avian dinosaurs? Quite a distance away, to be sure, but they would definitely seem to have common ancestry that can be traced back to the days of Saurian dominance on the surface of Mystara. >> AFAIK the fishes are older than dinosaurs. It were fishes to developed lungs and legs and became reptiles and later on dinosaurs. At least the good old sharks were already there when the aquatic dinosaurs lived (and they haven't changed since then.) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 16:36:45 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics << 4) You portray galleys as lumbering and slow, but according to both the movement rates in the AD&D DMG (2nd edition) and the article I read, movement under oar is actually faster than movement under sail (eventhough sailing ships are indeed faster than *sailed* galleys) ... although I think you are right about them being less maneuverable. Am I misreading this one? >> Most galleys should be more maneuverable than sailing ships thanks to be rowed. The point is, how long is a rowed galley faster than a sailing ship? I assume, only one or two minutes. And still remains the problem of galleys in a storm. They are simply not built for a big ocean. The Mediterranian Sea or the Black Sea are small enough to be a good galley ground, likewise the Baltic Sea, the Caspian Sea or Lake Aral. Not always, as the example of the "Estonia" shows. We should really develop the big lakes/inland seas of Mystara as TSR has nearly nothing done about this fascinating theme. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:46:33 -0500 (EST) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: Underground races (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis) >I was talking about this last night with a friend of mine who and we had some interesting ideas. We were both anaware of the Cynidiceans... tho now that I see the name I remember some sort of group of immortals that spend too much time looking after a dying race.. is that right? are they in the HW? don't have anything here to look em up with in the lab.... regardless, my friend and I are working on two different ideas... one for an evil race of humans and one of a good... when we get it don'e I'll post it so you all can ridicule. ;) They're in B4 and the Creature Catalogue I believe. An underground human peoples that have their glory days behind them, are in conflict with one another, and that is plagued by a large number of its citizens living on hallucinogens. B4, while horribly flawed in some ways, is one of my favorite modules ever, and definitely worth a look if you can find a copy. I've always wondered what other DMs have done with it (espec. the Underground City and the 4 religious factions) I'll be very disappointed if Kevin Young is not a vastly improved hitter this season - Jim Leyland, 1994 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 16:36:43 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) << And, as I have said before, there comes a time when one must allow reason to take over and say "screw the rules". >> O.k., but why this time? The rules about mortal identities are good as they are and changing them makes it more difficult to talk with other players which still use the canon rules, as you just see. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 16:36:40 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: Underground races (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis) << But my question was: What do you suppose became of him? More specifically, what was he doing during WotI? He must have taken advantage of the chaos somehow... >> He became an level 1 initiate immortal? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:12:33 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker << All of whom are of Hattian origin. We can assume that Hattian is the language in use for all German sounding names. >> Hm, Germany at its worst... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:16:09 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cynidicea, Barimoor, Dythestenia, Nithia, and Tuma << Yes, in fact I do. I could scan them here at work and send them to you...They are done in a fairly large scale because of the large area they pertain to. >> Maps? I'm dying for maps! Send me the maps please too. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:24:17 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics << Galleons are big ole hunking ships. The Spanish used such vessels. Galleons were sail driven. They were more or less floating fortresses. Multiple decks of guns and a sizable crew. Spanish galleons were prone to grapple and board an enemy vessel after the arty had crippled it. Capturing a vessel earned the crew and captain more prestige and money. >> Has anybody noticed that the cargo and the number of crewman in the rules is very small compared to RW ships? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:40:18 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics << This makes sense. By the way, a question I have had for a while: Just what color is copper anyway??? Do the Alphatians look like Asians? That is the way I picture them but minus the eyefolds. >> Exactly! They look like Amerindians in some respects. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:34:02 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Brainstorming Atlantis << Anyone want to claim any specific Alphatian Kingdom? Anyone want to head up this project? >> A forty hour working week doesn't permit such an immense feat. :'-( Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:18:32 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker << Thanks. I havent really been practicing my German for years. Articles in German are quite tricky. We do have three in Norwegian as well, but they make more sense. (to me anyway) >> I know what you mean :-( But this is not the right place to discuss about German language. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 18:44:43 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics At 05:40 PM 2/4/98 EST, you wrote: ><< This makes sense. By the way, a question I have had for a while: Just >what color is copper anyway??? Do the Alphatians look like Asians? That is the way I picture them but minus the eyefolds. >> >Exactly! They look like Amerindians in some respects. Thanks. Mainly I figured they looked somewhat Asian because of the fact the Ochaleans are a former Alphatian colony. My wife suggested they may even have a slightly metallic cast to their skin...like a penny. I'll have to think about that one. But she did have a good point about the metallic casting going well with the fact they are a magic heavy race... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 17:56:58 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker At 05:12 PM 2/4/98 EST, you wrote: ><< All of whom are of Hattian origin. We can assume that Hattian is the >language in use for all German sounding names. >> >Hm, Germany at its worst... Excuse me, but are you suggesting that we men of Aalban are "Germany at its worst"?? If you are, then you are an Ethengarian pig. If not then I take back the pig comment... Jaggar Drachenfels *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 18:49:36 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cynidicea, Barimoor, Dythestenia, Nithia, and Tuma At 05:16 PM 2/4/98 EST, you wrote: ><< Yes, in fact I do. I could scan them here at work and send them to >you...They are done in a fairly large scale because of the large area they pertain to. >> >Maps? I'm dying for maps! >Send me the maps please too. Ok. I will send them to the list. Anyone have a suggestion for format? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:28:56 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for Bellissaria? << BTW anyone ever wondered why the heck the Council opted for IONACE. I know the "neutral ground" theory (simular to Washington DC) but what about the Mnemonics Mineral found there. >> And it was not neccessary. Germany has a highly federal system and the capital (Bonn) was simply in one of the states without any special status. O.k., our new (old) capital Berlin is a state of its own but there was a try to unite it with the surrounding. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:36:43 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) << Thanks BJM10. Finally there is someone out there that has read and understood the rules. But hasn't limited themselves to strictly adhering to those rules and utilized what works best in his or her own campaign. "IMC" is the most powerful term in D&D. And from the frequent use of it on the List, I am sure that I am not the only one that has deviated from the original Basic Rules. Alex little ole me >> The heck you say! I've developed some rules and later on I was really disappointed about the result and returned to the written rules. My conclusion: No more changes than neccessary! Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:10:43 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) << But isn´t a part of this lifeform used for the MI? IMC most MI are very independent, and the Immortals only gets to know, hwat the IM knows if he takes him back or gets into contact with him. So as the Immortals parts his life form, and one part of it becomes mortal and independent, IMC ist is quite possible for him to get immortal again. >> You can do what you want, but it's definitely not canon. Auf Deutsch: In Deiner Kampgane kannst Du tun und lassen, was Du willst, aber es wird in keinster Weise durch die Regeln gedeckt !!! Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 18:48:52 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics At 05:24 PM 2/4/98 EST, you wrote: ><< Galleons are big ole hunking ships. The Spanish used such vessels. Galleons >were sail driven. They were more or less floating fortresses. Multiple decks of guns and a sizable crew. Spanish galleons were prone to grapple and board an enemy vessel after the arty had crippled it. Capturing a vessel earned the crew and captain more prestige and money. >> >Has anybody noticed that the cargo and the number of crewman in the rules is very small compared to RW ships? I don't know, never been on a galleon. I have been on a 23' sailboat though. It could have been manned by one person. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 17:28:25 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Scanned Maps (Was Re: Cynidicea, Barimoor, ....) At 06:49 PM 2/3/98 -0500, Daly wrote: >At 05:16 PM 2/4/98 EST, you wrote: >><< Yes, in fact I do. I could scan them here at work and send them to >>you...They are done in a fairly large scale because of the large area they pertain to. >> >Ok. I will send them to the list. Anyone have a suggestion for format? Don't. Why? Because attachements are not allowed on the mailing list (mostly because they don't work well for everyone, ESPECIALLY the digest readers) Also, unless they are your own maps (sorry, I missed the beginning of this thread, so they may, in fact, be your own maps, in which case, ignore this comment), scanning them and sending them to a lot of people would be blatant copyright infringment. Just my 2 kopec's worth Jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #48 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 09:53:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #49 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Thursday, February 5 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 049 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Rahasia Re: [MYSTARA] - Byzantium Re: [MYSTARA] - Cynidicea, Barimoor, Dythestenia, Nithia, and Tuma [MYSTARA] - Netlogo Available Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) [MYSTARA] - Re: Byzantium And Naval Tactics Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics Re: [MYSTARA] - Undersea Genealogies? Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for Bellissaria? Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for Bellissaria? [MYSTARA] - Lost letters [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Inmortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Byzantium And Naval Tactics Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Undersea Genealogies? Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Byzantium ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 20:49:30 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) On Wed, 4 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: ><< And, as I have said before, there comes a time when one must allow reason >to take over and say "screw the rules". >> >O.k., but why this time? The rules about mortal identities are good as they are and changing them makes it more difficult to talk with other players which still use the canon rules, as you just see. Tournament standards are for AD&D. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 20:52:02 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) On Wed, 4 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: >You can do what you want, but it's definitely not canon. Canon is for religions. D&D is not a religion. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 20:52:38 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Oh, and Jamuga--I don't recall granting you duzen. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 20:23:09 -0500 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rahasia >>I don't even think B1-9 can be considered canon, as it directly contradicts >>the earlier published material in so many places. I would use it strictly >>as a starter module. >How do you mean it contradicts the earlier published material? I think it fits in pretty darned well, and generally use B1-9 as is (with a few minor modifications here and there). Well, basically what I meant is that it snipped out some stuff and spliced together the different modules. I had always thought that some of those B-series modules were better placed outside of Karameikos (why was everything always placed in Karameikos?) >>Bonus Question: Where is Guido's fort and the River Shrill? >In the original module B5: Horror on the Hill? I don't know. The only one that wasn't ever really placed (to my knowledge) is B8: Journey to the Rock, which is pretty much just a generic module. This is exactly what I mean. A far better setting for B5: Horror on the Hill is to the east of Malpheggi Swamp. The River Shrill could be a tributary of the swamp and "the end of the trader's road" could wend it's way from the Shires. This strikes me as a much more appropriate place and could still be close enough to a major city (Darokin!) to be accessible to first-level adventurers. B8: Journey to the Rock offered two potential settings: Karameikos and Darokin (north of Lake Amsorak). This is close enough to Guido's Fort to be connected in a mini-campaign. Taken together these modules could comprise a trilogy for the beginning party of adventurers. I think the Darokin gazetteer is often overlooked as a versatile setting with which to start a campaign. Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 21:15:11 -0500 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Byzantium In following the recent thread about the Byzantine or Roman nature of Thyatis or Alphatia I really feel it's necessary to make a few points. Please keep in mind that I have not read TSR's AOL discussion on the topic with Bruce Heard (although I am intensely curious about what might have been discussed in that forum!). Firstly, Byzantium lasted over a thousand years, it had a start, an apogee, and a decline, (and it even gets more complicated than that!). Furthermore the apogee was really quite impressive. Basing Thyatis loosely upon Rome or Byzantium because of whether the Empire is viewed to be rising or falling doesn't make much sense to me. Secondly, Byzantium could certainly have been characterized by exotic names and places, as well as mysticism in it's art, religion, and culture; but this does not equal the Middle East and it certainly does not make Byzantium Arabic (as one poster seemed to imply)! The rise of the Ottoman Empire influenced what the former regions of Byzantium are like today. Thirdly, Alphatia is supposed to be alien - which, while it might at times be viewed as exotic, is certainly a more widespread and all-encompassing term than that. Neither Byzantium nor the Middle East of today can properly be viewed as "alien"! Furthermore, making Alphatia "Byzantine" smacks of lack of creativity for an alien culture. Having said all that, I see nothing wrong with a quasi-Byzantine/Roman element to Thyatis. It fits so well! And there are all kinds of excellent resource materials surfacing for the history of Byzantium (from TLC mini-series to trilogies by popular historians). It's a wealth of novel campaign ideas, and much more intriguing than ancient Rome (a culture very well-known to most gamers). Jim "armchair Byzantine historian" Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 20:42:57 -0500 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cynidicea, Barimoor, Dythestenia, Nithia, and Tuma >I think the Alasiyan desert is an eminently reasonable location for the city of Cynidicea, considering the history of the KW ... >which brings us to the subject of Barimoor ... one motivation he may have in establishing his base under Nithia is to collect dark secrets of past ages he was not meant to know about. perhaps his underground tunnels connect to those of the broken landers, shadow elves, hardanger kobolds, and Cynidicea. I would like to hear more thoughts on all of these from anyone who's got them. IMC the whole problem of where the Cynidiceans came from was solved quite nicely. We were using the "Elmore" Expert Set and so the Alasiyan desert was what we were working with. I figured (as you did) that Cynidicea had to have reached its local zenith prior to the (elven-induced) desertification of the Alasiyan basin; but the original Cynidiceans were actually Thyatian settlers! How did we come to this? Believe it or not I got the idea from some of the illustrations in B4: The Lost City. On a sarcophagus somewhere there was some distinctly Byzantine art. We had taken to heart the description of Thyatis as quasi-Byzantine, so we assumed that the original Cynidiceans came from Thyatis. As the desert grew around them, and the colony became isolated from other Thyatian colonies by roving bands of Ylari, they became a kingdom. Interestingly, years later during the Great War of the Master, the original party of adventurers returned to the newly re-established kingdom of Cynidicea and was able to garner aid that was instrumental in stemming the tide of Ylari through the pass to Selenica. IMC we had played out all of the suggested further adventures in the Lost City, including finding the lost heir to the throne and using a powerful artifact to re-establish Cynidicea. Made for some fun gaming! Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 20:47:33 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: [MYSTARA] - Netlogo Available Greetings! The Mystara netlogo is available at http://www.tsr.com/netlogos/ - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 22:13:20 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) At 08:52 PM 2/4/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Wed, 4 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: >>You can do what you want, but it's definitely not canon. >Canon is for religions. D&D is not a religion. Canons are for galleons. D&D is not a galleon. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 00:06:11 -0500 From: Michael Ray Johnson Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Daly wrote: >At 08:52 PM 2/4/98 -0500, you wrote: >>On Wed, 4 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: >>>You can do what you want, but it's definitely not canon. >>Canon is for religions. D&D is not a religion. >Canons are for galleons. D&D is not a galleon. Actually, CANNONS are for galleons. But you're right that D&D is not a galleon, nor is it a religion, which is what a canon is for. :) Michael. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 00:13:31 -0500 From: brunciak@erols.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Byzantium And Naval Tactics Jim "armchair Byzantine historian" Sahlas Oh My Stars! I thought I was the only one who studied the Empire of Byzantium! Anyway, I just thought that since we're on the topic of the Empire, naval tactics, and cultures of Mystara, I might as well add in my thoughts. As Jim Sahlas mentioned, the Byzantine Empire was far from an empire in decline. Especially in the Dark Ages, its military was the most powerful in Europe. Though it played mostly a defensive role, the military was able to defend the whole of the empire for centuries while never comprising over 200,000 soldiers and sailors. Also, it's economy was the envy of the world (even more than Darokin's is (or was) on Mystara). It's gold piece, the solidi (sp?) was the standard currency of the Mediterranean World for centuuries. Back to a more Mystaran relevant theme, the Byzantine Empire had many exotic aspects. I would imagine that some member of the list would be able to incorporate some of these into their campaign. For instance, in the Imperial Palace one would find a fountain from which exotic wines would flow onto a pool filled with almonds and pistachios. One of the thrones had two mechanical birds that would sing when someone sat on it. In the main audience hall, the Enperor would be mechanically elevated when people would speak to them. Also, their was the Imperial Galley which was basically a floating palace. Alright, onto the naval tactics of the Empire. Most of the fleet was comprised of dromons. These were not any ordinery galley, though. At the bow, the Byzantines carved the heads of dragons and other fierce creatures from antiquity. They would then place tubes into the mouths of these carvings. The tubes resembled gigantic hypodermic needles and were filled with Greek Fire. Many a time the Byzantines won battles because the enemy would see these "dragons" on the water belching fire (quite a terrifying site) and would flee. However, the majority of battles would begin with the usual exchange of missle fire followed by ramming the enemy while using the Greek Fire at the same time. I don't have the exact number of crew but I do know that there were up to 70 marines onboard, two ballistae on the aft section and two light catapults on the bow behind the Greek Fire apparatus. I have a picture of one but I'd first need to find it. Lastly, a note about Greek Fire. Some mentioned that the sustance would be more likley to be employed by Alphatia because of its magical knowledge. I'd have to argue the opposite. Greek Fire is an organic gew made of oil, resin, salt peter, and some "secret ingriedient". Alphatia would have no need for such a weapon because it would be easier to just cast a fireball or some similar spell. A country such as Thyatis, though, while not being poopr in the field of magic, would find more use because a person doesn't nee to be a wizard to make the stuff or use it. In my campaign, I call it Dwarven Fire because I figured since dwarves were miners and magically poor, they'd be the ones on Mystara to develop the stuff. If anyone would want further knowledge of the Byzantine military or exotic things that would help them flesh out a place on Mystara just ask. Thanks for Reading! Bob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 01:04:03 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics Alex295@aol.com pontificated: >I think the movement rates are for both rows and sails being used at the same time. i I'm almost certain that oars and sails are never used at the same time. >IIRC the speed is only good for short periods such as attempting a ram attack. I believe this is true. The "crusing speed" for a rowed ship is probably slower then a sailed ship with decent wind. Also, I like to point out galley rower are almost never slaves as portraited in many movies. A good navy's rower need to be very well trained. >I've always heard that galleys suffer in rough open waters. But then again, the Romans used galleys all over their empire. I think due to the shallow, flat keel, they are much more likely to overturn than other ships. A navy sailer once told me that ship with flat keel are in danger of overturning when they are tilted 5 to 10 degrees, while warship with the deep keel (?, don't know the real term for it), are less stable, but can tilt up to 30 degrees without any problem. I vaguely remember in one naval battle, the Roman suffer heavy losses due to weather, compounded by the fact the fortification on the ship made it very top heavy. In Greek mythology, I remember reading they need to pull their galley on to the beach every night. I'm not sure whether Roman galley require same type of care, but I seem to remember they generally don't go beyond the sight of coast line. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 01:06:37 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Undersea Genealogies? JamugaKhan@aol.com pontificated: >AFAIK the fishes are older than dinosaurs. It were fishes to developed lungs and legs and became reptiles and later on dinosaurs. At least>the good old sharks were already there when the aquatic dinosaurs lived (and they haven't changed since then.) This is correct. Life developed in the ocean first. Fish are the first vertebrate. Dolphan and whales are land animals that returned to the ocean. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 17:35:00 -0500 From: Michael Southon Subject: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) >>>You can do what you want, but it's definitely not canon. >>Canon is for religions. D&D is not a religion. >Canons are for galleons. D&D is not a galleon. Canons, on the other hand, can be quite fun in D&D (Give 'em to the Gnomes ;) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 11:08:06 CET From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for Bellissaria? >Despite of some federal structures in the Alphatian Empire (AE) the whole thing was pretty centralistic. First came the Island of Alphatia, then a long time nothing and finally the rest. Norwold was good for incapable children of nobles, the Isle of Dawn was a battleground, the Alatians were an experiment, Esterhold was a big mining center and slavehunter place and Bellissaria was the bread basket of the AE. After the WotI the center was gone. After All true. >forming the NAE one question arose. Where will the center of power and civilization be? The newest developments say IONACE, former Monster Island and Denwarf-Hurgon. But IMO the Island is too small, too mountainous and too dangerous to be this center. The only logical choice is Bellissaria, big and civilized, although developable. >I see Bellissiaria sinking into nothingness once again and I think that it deserves a better fate. Don't forget that Bellissaria has the greatest >landmass of the NACE and doesn't face the problems of the IoD (Thyatis), Esterhold (Rock Deserts and Jennites) or IONACE (monsters of all sorts). I see your point, and definetely Belissaria should hold power in the NACE (and it does, in fact). However, it's not the sole power of the Confederacy. For once, Aquas can't be left out just like that. It wasn't Zandor's center of power for nothing. Remember that Aquas was (almost) part of mainland Alphatia, is populated by a higher percentage of spellcasters than most other former Alphatian colonies, has a definite military advantage with its submersibles, and has something of a legitimacy. And let's not forget Thothia. Thothia saved Alphatian territories from Thyatian conquest in 1012. Would Thothia and young Pharaoh Ramenhotep just let the power go to Belissaria? >And now I declare the discussion opened. Participate and read the text below. This discussion promises to be interesting. Being the guy in charge of the NACE for the net almanacs (I invented the NACE), I'd like to know what others think of it. So far no one but me has been interested in discuting about the NACE and Alphatia except to give me an idea or two, but I'm willing to create and animate such a discussion group for next (1016) year. Email me privately if you're interested. With recent discussion about Alphatia/Atlantis, Alphatian Gaz, and now Belissaria, it seems there are indeed people who like Alphatia and may be willing to write its future... _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Almanac page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 11:49:16 CET From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for Bellissaria? >I have to agree with Khan on this. Bellissaria kind of got shafted on the >whole IONACE deal. Not that much. It's not Belissaria who saved the Alphatian territories from Thyatis, and Belissaria had been conquered by Aquas under Zandor's rule. Also remember that the NACE is ruled by a council, and that Belissaria holds a good share of the votes, with (IIRC) 6 countries. The one big nation that is not well represented is Esterhold, who has only one vote for such a big land. IoD has IIRC 4 votes, but this is in part due to Thothian lobying (it agreed to become member of the Confederacy if other small IoD nations were also granted a seat at the council, thereby shifting back the power to the IoD). >BTW anyone ever wondered why the heck the Council opted for IONACE. I know the >"neutral ground" theory (simular to Washington DC) but what about the It's important to have a neutral ground, when there are different powers involved, all of them wanting to get the best part of it. NACE is not as much similar to USA as it's to European Union. Imperial Alphatia was more US-like, but I modeled NACE after the EU (though there are some strong American elements who remain, like hardball or the constitution). So, look at EU. Look at how Brussels and Strasbourg are battling to be comethe most important center of government. Look at how Germany is pushing to expand EU north (Scandinavia) and east (Eastern Europe) while France is lobbying to expand south (Malta, Cyprus) to avoid a recentering of EU. To avoid the first problem, Ionace, a neutral ground, has been chosen (also it has a symbloic value because it's on mainland Alphatia). The second point is and will certainly ever be a problem (Thothia played on it upon adhering the Confederacy). One last thing to remember is that NACE is not a federation like the US, but a confederacy. And at the same time it's still part of the Alphatian empire (remember that the council knows that Alphatia and Empresss Eriadna are still alive in the HW). >Mnemonics Mineral found there. Given the prolonged affects of exposure, seems >like the last place wizards would want to hang out. And I say this because >surely the mineral would seep into the island's water table and contaminate >the drinking water. >Anyone ever done any work on the mnemonics mineral? I have kind of worked up a >theory that the mineral is not found only on Ionace. It is everywhere in >Alphatia. The majority of the Alphatian water table was contaminated with the >mineral, ever be it in highly deluted amounts. The drop of spellcasters reflect the ingestion of the contaminated water. The high delution factors in >the inability to learn instead of halting all spellcasting. I will be handling it in a different way in future almanacs. First stage in the soon-to-be 1015 almanac, climaxing in the Return of the Moving Sun and Passing Seasons (whoever finds what this refers to gets a free copy of the 1015 almanac :) _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Almanac page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 12:43:21 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: [MYSTARA] - Lost letters Hei. I have somehow lost all mails send from 15:06 03-02-98 to 21:23 04-02-98. I would like to hear if somebody please would send them to me? Thanks for listening Lille My, who soon is going to be famous for his increased Gremlin effect. "I didn't even touch a button this time". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 5 Feb 1998 09:16:24 -0300 From: 3@giga.com.ar Subject: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Inmortals I know you'll sey that there is a lot of information, but I need to know: how did it began? Why did it began? What happened in the middle and in the end? Thanks Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 08:21:02 -0800 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Byzantium And Naval Tactics >If anyone would want further knowledge of the Byzantine military or exotic things that would help them flesh out a place on Mystara just ask. Thanks for Reading! >Bob Man! This is awesome. More more more! My knowledge is mostly Roman, hence my dismissal of the Eastern Empire. I had no idea about all the stuff you brought up. I really want more. This helps me flesh out not only Thyatis, but in contrast Alphatia as well. For instance, I already was planning on Alphatia having fountains flowing with wine. Now I have to "one up" that idea to make it magic. I agree with your take on 'greek fire' as it is a historical weapon. Alphatians are notorious for taking the route of least resistance so why would they bother coming up with such a weapon? The Thyatians are much more likely to invent it to combat Alphatia. And unlike many, I see the Thyatians as being quite capable of holding their own against Alphatia. Especially given national character. I see the relationship between the two empires to be very cold war-ish. It is often said (usually by some npc) that if the two were ever to go all out the results would be felt over the entire world. In fact...the end of the world would be very likely. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 08:21:55 -0800 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) At 12:06 AM 2/5/98 -0500, you wrote: >Daly wrote: >>At 08:52 PM 2/4/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>On Wed, 4 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: >>>>You can do what you want, but it's definitely not canon. >>>Canon is for religions. D&D is not a religion. >>Canons are for galleons. D&D is not a galleon. >Actually, CANNONS are for galleons. But you're right that D&D is not a galleon, >nor is it a religion, which is what a canon is for. :) Gosh, I really hope you realize I was kidding with the canon/cannon statement. I am an English teacher after all... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 08:23:45 -0800 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Undersea Genealogies? At 01:06 AM 2/5/98 -0500, you wrote: >JamugaKhan@aol.com pontificated: >>AFAIK the fishes are older than dinosaurs. It were fishes to developed lungs and legs and became reptiles and later on dinosaurs. At least the good old sharks were already there when the aquatic dinosaurs lived (and they haven't changed since then.) >This is correct. Life developed in the ocean first. Fish are the first vertebrate. Dolphan and whales are land animals that returned to the ocean. Of course, since evolutionary theory is theory an individual DM could decide whatever the heck he wants...:) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 08:24:56 -0800 From: Daly Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) At 05:35 PM 2/5/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>>You can do what you want, but it's definitely not canon. >>>Canon is for religions. D&D is not a religion. >>Canons are for galleons. D&D is not a galleon. >Canons, on the other hand, can be quite fun in D&D (Give 'em to the Gnomes ;) What would happen if those canon gnomes took their cannons to Canaan? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:23:15 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) At 20.52 04/02/98 -0500, bjm10@cornell.edu wrote: >On Wed, 4 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: >>You can do what you want, but it's definitely not canon. >Canon is for religions. D&D is not a religion. I didn't think this topic would have gone that far, so please stop it. It's clear enough that everybody here reads and uses the rules as he wants (which is fairly understandable), so if you wanna go on with this thread in this childish way, please do it privately (even though i'm convinced nobody will change his mind, so it's a lost war). Last words: with my posts on MI and Avatars i only reminded u all what the canon rules are (MI are not Avatars), and that's what we normally take as common point to start a discussion. It's just we call the same things with different names, no surprise the confusion that results... OK, do as u want, but please avoid useless messages.. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 09:53:01 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Byzantium On Wed, 4 Feb 1998, DJ Sahlas wrote: >Firstly, Byzantium lasted over a thousand years, it had a start, an Byzantium? Never heard of it, mate. Now, I've heard of the Roman Empire. Honestly, though, I wish that Western politicos had never invented the term "Byzantine" empire--it was actually a political move on thier part to permit them to claim that the Frankish Kingdom was the "real" Roman Empire. As far as the empire with a capital in Constantinople was concerned, the Roman empire continued until the city finally fell to the Turks. Can anybody point out the specific point at which the empire stopped being "Roman" and started being "Byzantine"--they're just different stages in the same organism. >Secondly, Byzantium could certainly have been characterized by exotic names and places, as well as mysticism in it's art, religion, and culture; but this does not equal the Middle East and it certainly does not make Byzantium Arabic (as one poster seemed to imply)! The rise of the Ottoman Empire influenced what the former regions of Byzantium are like today. First, the possessive of "it" in English is "its". Second, the art, religion, and culture of the Roman Empire of the 6th-15th centuries was no more "mystical" than that of Western Europe. The mechanistic viewpoint was a later invention. The problem is that 19th-century "scholars" looked at Imperial culture of the 6th-15th centuries and compared it to *19th*-century European culture, not to contemporary European cultures. However, I will agree fully that the Roman Empire of the 6th-15th centuries was not at all "Arabic". It was Greek in language, Hellenizing in outlook, and Christian in philosophy. Furthermore, it directly continued and developed the culture of the Roman Empire of earlier centuries. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #49 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 19:29:46 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #50 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Thursday, February 5 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 050 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Scanned Maps (Was Re: Cynidicea, Barimoor, ....) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Creature Crucibles + various Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Orders of Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Cynidicea, Barimoor, Dythestenia, Nithia, and Tuma Re: [MYSTARA] - Creature Crucibles + various Re: [MYSTARA] - Byzantium [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - Byzantium Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Inmortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Cynidicea, Barimoor, Dythestenia, Nithia, and Tuma Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for Bellissaria? Re: [MYSTARA] - Byzantium Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for Bellissaria? Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was:Avata Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - Netlogo Available ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:53:15 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Scanned Maps (Was Re: Cynidicea, Barimoor, ....) On Wed, 4 Feb 1998, Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: >At 06:49 PM 2/3/98 -0500, Daly wrote: >>At 05:16 PM 2/4/98 EST, you wrote: >>><< Yes, in fact I do. I could scan them here at work and send them to >>>you...They are done in a fairly large scale because of the large area they pertain to. >> >>Ok. I will send them to the list. Anyone have a suggestion for format? >Don't. As Jenni pointed out, sending attachments to the list is no good. So What you do is you place it on a website. If you dont have one, send it to me and I'll place it on mine. (Can't promise I'll be able to do it before the weekend though, depends on how long it takes you to send it to me :) Håvard Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 09:53:57 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >Canons are for galleons. D&D is not a galleon. Cannons are for warships. I've never read any canon that deals with galleons. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:02:03 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >What would happen if those canon gnomes took their cannons to Canaan? Are they synodal or ecuminical gnome canons? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 18:39:00 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Creature Crucibles + various On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, jdaly wrote: >Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >>On Sun, 1 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >I am not sure if you are arguing a point with me or not. I assume you are because of the insertion of the words "I'd say". I am taking these words to mean that you have an opinion that differs from mine. >The reason I say this is because Norse, Celtic, French, Italian, Anglo-Saxon, and German texts all provide what we call "Medieval Literature". So what you say is true, especially if you are saying "The anonymous writer who penned Sir Gawain and the Green Knight was stealing ideas from Celtic writers who came before him." >That statement would in fact fit in with what I spoke of before AND your response above...:) I'm not really arguing with you. I was just adding some information. Sometimes I just dont know when to shut up. :) Actually I though the term Medieval literature referred to much later texts than those describing Norse and (I think) celtic myths. Anyway. I'll just go back to my studies now.. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 11:22:15 -0600 (CST) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Orders of Alphatia GACK!!! can someone send me that list. I got really behind on reading my messages and had to clean the inbox (darn quotas :P) Thanks Steve On Tue, 3 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: >A few weeks ago there was a list of paladins' orders in Alphatia. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 11:28:47 -0600 (CST) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cynidicea, Barimoor, Dythestenia, Nithia, and Tuma Hmmm don't spose you could send those my way also? On Wed, 4 Feb 1998, jdaly wrote: >Yes, in fact I do. I could scan them here at work and send them to you...They are done in a fairly large scale because of the large area they pertain to. >Matthew Levy wrote: >>do you still have the maps? >>>>anyone who's got them. >>>Actually for an earlier campaign I made a series of caverns which linked all these places together. Although the characters have never been to the Ylaruam portion I made sure to make them almost the center of the network... >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 18:23:54 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Creature Crucibles + various On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, jdaly wrote: >>Okay maybe I dont know what I´m talking about here, but anyway there are different ways of stealing ideas. Maybe TSR should try subtlety some time? >That is ok. Many of us speak when we don't know what we are talking about..:) I'm trying to be humble for a change ;) >But Tolkien was a professor of Medieval Lit and you can see the influence quite clearly in Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, and several other lesser known Medieval texts. >Middle Earth is a term actually used in Medieval Lit to describe earth. Earth is the world that is literally (in the minds of the Medieval person) located between Heaven and Hell. You're probably right. In the norwegian translation of LotR Middle earth is Midgard. Midgard means much of the same really so I alsways thought that was the origin of the name. >I will plague you with further info if you really wish... Information is good :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 16:17:57 -0500 From: brunciak@erols.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Byzantium First of all, I just want to say that this is Mystaran relevant even though at times it may not appear to be so please don't torch me :-) bjm10@cornell.edu wrote: >Can anybody point out the specific point at which the empire stopped being "Roman" and started being "Byzantine"--they're just different stages in the same organism. This topic still tends to still be hotly debated. The word "Byzantine" is a modern term used to distinguish that Empire from the Roman. The Empire lasted 1023 years (it's 1015 AC right now :-)) and in this time the culture changed dramatically. The first stage, from about the founding of Costantine's city in 330 to the 6th century, feels very much like the Thyatian Empire. The Byzantines still called themselves Roman, lived in New Rome, had a Senate, and spoke Latin. During the Seventh Century, the Empire nearly collapsed. It was in a major war with Persia that ended up ruining the Empire and destroying Persia in the process (WRATH OF THE IMMORTALS?). At this point, the culture goes through a major change. Greek replaced Latin while Byzantium developed it's own form of art, architecture, and literature (and they started to learn more about their Ancient Greek heritage by beginning to call themselves Greek). Many people say it is here that the Empire starts to be distinctively "Byzantine". SOOOO the Empire "began" in 330 but became "Byzantine", as we would use the word, around the seventh century. >Second, the art, religion, and culture of the Roman Empire of the 6th-15th centuries was no more "mystical" than that of Western Europe. The mechanistic viewpoint was a later invention. Uh, I wouldn't say that. Most Byzantine art was religious. However it differs greatly from Western Art. Icons are not only meant to portray the saint but ACTUALLY allow a sort of contact with them that wouldn't be possible without the icon. Also the art was meant to represent the order of Heaven on Earth. Its religion was the same until 1095 so you're right there. The culture could have been called "mystical". The equivalent of a person going to an exotic land such as Byzantium could be compared with a person of the Known World visiting Alphatia (that does not mean I see the two as similar in many aspects, just this one and a few others). Constantinople's central market was the envy of the known world (Earth's not Mystara's) with books from Ancient Greece, goods from China, and gold from Africa. It's Emperor was the will of God on Earth and almost everything was done for the glory of God or some holy virtue. One last thing; I brought this up a while back yet was met with confusion and dissatisfaction. Just as Byzantium changed culturally after internal and external conflicts, does anyone see this happening to Thyatis after WotI, especially since it's ruined but has no more real oppostion (yet). I'm not saying it has to change like Byzantium did but come on now--it's 1015 years old and not THAT MUCH has changed. Europe has changed drastically in the last century alone as well as the U.S. Maybe a little change could happen to Thyatis. BoB P.S. I'M REALLY ENJOYING THIS THREAD! It's allowing me to merge my two favorite hobbies and allows members of the list to detail areas of Mystara in ways most of us have never thought of (alright, I'll talk for myself :-)) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 21:43:08 -0800 From: Gianluca Tesi Subject: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Hi there to all of you! I was wondering if it has been already a discussion about the Old Ones. The idea the Old Ones are actually immortals that, having forfeited their status of immortality, restart a life as mortals and succeed in achieving immortality again really fascinates me. This has been outlined as a possibility in WotI boxed set and has given me some ideas. I think the immortal making this choice shouldn't know the dangers involved. As a newly born mortal his memories are gone. He can be killed, thus dying forever, or he can never be aware of his previous status and die of old age. But if he attains immortality he will gain powers beyond the wildest dreams of an immortal! Think now of a PC (or group of PCs) that is unknowingly an ex-immortal. He will discover (if he's clever) that there's something wrong. He might have dreams of his past existence and find that an immortal vanished from the world. His clerics are desperate about the loss of their spells, or if the new mortal is cast forward in the future the entire cult might exist no more. Rival immortals may recognize him as the lost colleague and they can try to interfere with his life. Many interesting situations may occur. (I always wanted to write a novel on this subject, but I never tried!) What do you think about that? Any other idea about the Old Ones? Jan (for Gianluca) Tesi, Firenze (Florence), Italia *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 18:16:04 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Byzantium On Thu, 5 Feb 1998 brunciak@erols.com wrote: >Uh, I wouldn't say that. Most Byzantine art was religious. However it differs greatly from Western Art. Icons are not only meant to portray the saint but ACTUALLY allow a sort of contact with them that wouldn't be possible without the icon. Also the art was meant to represent the I do happen to be Orthodox. However, the Ikon was not the sum toto of art in the later Empire. There was still a great deal of folk art. And I do recall Chrysostom's complaint about visiting Constantinople, but I have heard similar arguments made about western Medieval Europe, too. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 17:08:15 EST From: Neal Daskal Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Inmortals >I know you'll sey that there is a lot of information, but I need to know: how did it began? Why did it began? What happened in the middle and in the end? >Thanks >Jonathan Leibiusky >edu@giga.com.ar Very briefly: Ixion was concerned that Rad's experiments on the Nucleus were draining magic from the multiverse. He asked a Council of Immortals to require Rad to stop. The Council was deadlocked (IIRC the chairperson broke the tie and decided against Rad). Rad refused to acquiecse with the council's decision. Ixion essentially declared war on Rad and both collected Immortal and mortal allies and followers. On the Known World (as an OD&Der, to me Mystara=AD&D= the end of the product line), Glantri, Thyatis, and the Heldannic Knights aligned with Rad against Alphatia (Ixion). Mortal tensions escalated from 1000-1004AC. War was finally declared around 1005AC.IIRC a devastating firestorm which destroyed much of Aasla was the last straw for Alphatia. Over the next several years (up to about 1009AC) Alphatia's superior might slowly overcame it's enemies. When Thyatis' military power was on the verge of collapse, it left the war leaving Glantri open to direct attack. At this point Rad, faced with the destruction of his mortal allies, tested the Nucleus as a weapon, destroying Sundsvall. Alphatia retaliated with an all-out magical counter attack. In the course of the counter-attack for precise reasons which may depend on the actions of the campaign's PCs, Rad was sucked into the Nucleus. The subsequent magical overload struck Alphatia (since the Nucleus was still aimed that way) destroying it so totally that it sunk into the ocean (ala Atlantis). The Immortals preserved Alphatia by transporting most of the survivors to an Alphatia-shaped floating continent in the HW. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 17:42:39 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) << Canon is for religions. D&D is not a religion. >> REALLY ??? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 17:42:37 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) << Oh, and Jamuga--I don't recall granting you duzen. >> Excuse me? What did you mean? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 17:42:36 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cynidicea, Barimoor, Dythestenia, Nithia, and Tuma << Ok. I will send them to the list. Anyone have a suggestion for format? >> No thanks, as I have a wide-spanned choice what I can read. But remind Jenni's words and send it directly and not to the list. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 17:42:35 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker << Excuse me, but are you suggesting that we men of Aalban are "Germany at its worst"?? If you are, then you are an Ethengarian pig. If not then I take back the pig comment... Jaggar Drachenfels >> Not a word, you dirty Glantrinian albino dragon... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, as all Glantrinian will be dead in a near future." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 17:42:37 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics << I don't know, never been on a galleon. I have been on a 23' sailboat though. It could have been manned by one person. >> A English ship of the line (18th/19th century) could have easily 600 sailors and marines onboard, a Hanse kogge (15th/16th century, IIRC) could transport 150 tons cargo. Compare this with D&D ships. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 17:42:45 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for Bellissaria? << I will be handling it in a different way in future almanacs. First stage in the soon-to-be 1015 almanac, climaxing in the Return of the Moving Sun and Passing Seasons (whoever finds what this refers to gets a free copy of the 1015 almanac :) >> Are you shifting the floating continent of Alphatia back to the outer world? Please don't do it. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 17:05:39 -0800 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Byzantium At 04:17 PM 2/5/98 -0500, you wrote: >First of all, I just want to say that this is Mystaran relevant even though at times it may not appear to be so please don't torch me :-) ><>> It's allowing me to merge my two >favorite hobbies and allows members of the list to detail areas of Mystara in ways most of us have never thought of (alright, I'll talk for myself :-)) I have nothing to add besides encouragement. I think this is very relevant to this list as certain historical info is hard to come by. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 18:17:51 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Gianluca Tesi wrote: >I was wondering if it has been already a discussion about the Old Ones. The idea the Old Ones are actually immortals that, having forfeited Not all the Old Ones, just some of them. There are "elder" Old Ones. >their status of immortality, restart a life as mortals and succeed in achieving immortality again really fascinates me. This has been outlined Not just succeeding in achieving immortality. The character has to become the top dog in the Sphere, THEN embrace mortality, become Immortal again, AND become top dog in a Sphere AGAIN. It is at that point that the Black Globes come. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 17:42:40 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) << >>> You can do what you want, but it's definitely not canon. >>Canon is for religions. D&D is not a religion. >Canons are for galleons. D&D is not a galleon. Canons, on the other hand, can be quite fun in D&D (Give 'em to the Gnomes ;) It seems that i'm parting this mailing list with a pack of jesters. The original point was, that you cannot change the written rules for your own and then use this rules in discussions on the MML as they were the Ten Commandments from the Bible. Some of us are still holding the written rules, and it's really difficult to understand the arguments of somebody who shows such a behaviour. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 19:08:17 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones At 09:43 PM 2/5/98 -0800, you wrote: >Hi there to all of you! >I was wondering if it has been already a discussion about the Old Ones. The idea the Old Ones are actually immortals that, having forfeited their status of immortality, restart a life as mortals and succeed in achieving immortality again really fascinates me. Well, actually the idea of "Old Ones" is a theory started by the first Immortals. The first Immortals arrived on the scene and found a multiverse that seemed to have some order to it. Not only that, but some interesting ruins and remnants were found as well. Pointing to this they created the theory of the Old Ones and suggested that perhaps they live beyond the 6th dimension as that had always been a barrier even to the Immortals themselves. This has been outlined >as a possibility in WotI boxed set and has given me some ideas. I think the immortal making this choice shouldn't know the dangers involved. As a newly born mortal his memories are gone. He can be killed, thus dying forever, or he can never be aware of his previous status and die of old age. But if he attains immortality he will gain powers beyond the wildest dreams of an immortal! I agree. But as it says in the original Immortals set, he should then retire from play. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 17:42:42 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for Bellissaria? << I see your point, and definetely Belissaria should hold power in the NACE (and it does, in fact). However, it's not the sole power of the Confederacy. For once, Aquas can't be left out just like that. It wasn't Zandor's center of power for nothing. Remember that Aquas was (almost) part of mainland Alphatia, is populated by a higher percentage of spellcasters than most other former Alphatian colonies, has a definite military advantage with its submersibles, and has something of a legitimacy. And let's not forget Thothia. Thothia saved Alphatian territories from Thyatian conquest in 1012. Would Thothia and young Pharaoh Ramenhotep just let the power go to Belissaria? >> But with these arguments IONACE (what a name) will be the big power with Thotia and Aquas two centers of civilization. BTW, you've forgotten Floating Ar. But what remains for Bellissaria?? It's simply the biggest place to develope and the most other countries are to small or to endangered (or both) to replace the island of Alphatia. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 11:20:00 -0500 From: Michael Southon Subject: Re[4]: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was:Avata >>>>>You can do what you want, but it's definitely not canon. >>>>Canon is for religions. D&D is not a religion. >>>Canons are for galleons. D&D is not a galleon. >>Canons, on the other hand, can be quite fun in D&D (Give 'em to the Gnomes ;) >What would happen if those canon gnomes took their cannons to Canaan? Something very scarey. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 5 Feb 1998 21:27:30 -0300 From: 3@giga.com.ar Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones >Hi there to all of you! >I was wondering if it has been already a discussion about the Old Ones. The idea the Old Ones are actually immortals that, having forfeited their status of immortality, restart a life as mortals and succeed in achieving immortality again really fascinates me. This has been outlined as a possibility in WotI boxed set and has given me some ideas. I think the immortal making this choice shouldn't know the dangers involved. As a newly born mortal his memories are gone. He can be killed, thus dying forever, or he can never be aware of his previous status and die of old age. But if he attains immortality he will gain powers beyond the wildest dreams of an immortal! Think now of a PC (or group of PCs) that is unknowingly an ex-immortal. He will discover (if he's clever) that there's something wrong. He might have dreams of his past existence and find that an immortal vanished from the world. His clerics are desperate about the loss of their spells, or if the new mortal is cast forward in the future the entire cult might exist no more. >Rival immortals may recognize him as the lost colleague and they can try to interfere with his life. Many interesting situations may occur. (I always wanted to write a novel on this subject, but I never tried!) What do you think about that? Any other idea about the Old Ones? >Jan >(for Gianluca) Tesi, >Firenze (Florence), Italia >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. I really congratulate you. It's a GREAT idea. I really loved it. I think that if you'll make a novel of this you will sucess. I have some ideas: The novel can tell about a man that once he had a normal life with a beautiful wife and kids, but in dreams (as you write) he started to see thing that bother him. Now, many years later, he is on a mission to find something (i don't know), with some friends adventurers. A mage sent them (but really the mage knows who is the man, an ex-Inmortal) and he want to kill him after he drain his occults powers (that even the man don't kwon about). But during the mission he start to discover his really identity and the planes of the mage. But someone of his friend is a really traidor (a man that was hired by the mage to have a control of the ex-inmortal). If you don't have any problem, I want to use your idea for an adventure. Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 13:53:39 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Netlogo Available On Wed, 4 Feb 1998, Galwylin wrote: >The Mystara netlogo is available at http://www.tsr.com/netlogos/ And I just want to congratulate everyone who entered. I had planned to, myself, but I just couldn't quite get my idea the way I wanted it- and when I saw all the incredible logos the list came up with, I decided it wasn't really necessary, anyway; there was already a wealth of possibilities to choose from. :) I think the number and variety of the logos we had showed some real commitment to the Mystara line, and darned if they weren't a fair sight bettern than a lot of the other TSR Worlds online logos. Good job, guys!! :) - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #50 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 10:19:57 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #51 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com Status: RO mystara-digest Friday, February 6 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 051 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Cynidicea, Barimoor, Dythestenia, Nithia, and Tuma Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for Bellissaria? Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Byzantium And Naval Tactics Re: [MYSTARA] - Byzantium ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 01:32:50 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) At 20.52 04/02/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Wed, 4 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: >>You can do what you want, but it's definitely not canon. >Canon is for religions. D&D is not a religion. Right.. it's just a faith :-) - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 19:38:08 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics But an English ship of the line came far after the galley in terms of development. I really am out of my knowledge area as I don't know much about ships in general. But I can say that they "could easily have" or they carry a certain amount of cargo says nothing about how much crew is needed to power one. At 05:42 PM 2/5/98 EST, you wrote: ><< I don't know, never been on a galleon. I have been on a 23' sailboat >though. It could have been manned by one person. >> >A English ship of the line (18th/19th century) could have easily 600 sailors and marines onboard, a Hanse kogge (15th/16th century, IIRC) could transport 150 tons cargo. Compare this with D&D ships. >Jamuga Khan >"Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 19:41:59 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) >The original point was, that you cannot change the written rules for your own and then use this rules in discussions on the MML as they were the Ten Commandments from the Bible. Some of us are still holding the written rules, and it's really difficult to understand the arguments of somebody who shows such a behaviour. All joking aside, you are absolutely right. One cannot make up a rule and then hold everyone hostage to it. However I see no problem with list members suggesting alternate rules. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 01:45:55 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) At 17.10 04/02/98 EST, you wrote: >Auf Deutsch: In Deiner Kampgane kannst Du tun und lassen, was Du willst, aber es wird in keinster Weise durch die Regeln gedeckt !!! Mighty Khan, can you please translate me "es wird in keinster Weise durch die Regeln gedeckt"? My German is not that good... :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 20:08:36 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Hello all! I've been paying attention to what's been said concerning the Carnifex, the Kopru, Thanegioth, and so on, so here's my theory on the relationship between all of these: Long ago, the Carnifex were a strong race (either the original or Y'hog Carnifex, take your pick, though I'd assume the latter), who, thanks to the whispered promises of the Outer Beings, sought to challenge the natural laws of young Mystara by creating their own creatures and playthings, as a perverse imitation of both the Immortals and the greater Carnifex that preceeded them. Unlike their elder brethren, the Y'hog Carnifex were little more than beasts in some respects, with much less control over their primal sides. They flaunted their powers and created many different kinds of creatures, experimenting with life until they came up with a handful of servitors who not only bred true; they were viable life forms. The troglodytes were among the first of these - simple creatures that served as warriors, labourers, and as food if need be. They occupied the bottom rung of Carnifex society. To build upon their first achievement, the Carnifex then created the Ssithek (sp? - see Creature Catalogue), a beast not only capable of fighting, but capable of surviving in drier climates - a feat which the Carnifex were not capable of doing for prolonged periods. These creatures were more willful, and were not so easily cowed. In the wars against the Lhomarrians, many Ssithek escaped their masters while on Davania and fled southwards, towards the drying lands that would become the Ayptian and Izondian Deserts. There they have remained to this day, living in their isolated cities hidden between great crags of rock in cliff faces. The penultimate creation was the V'ruggh, a hideous beast of burden, which, when unleashed into battle, would rend both friend and foe limb from limb. It did not take long for the Carnifex to decide that these were more trouble than they were worth, and some can be found today in the great caverns beneath the Adakkian Mounts, and in the deepest corners of the Jungle Coast. It is rumoured that the Carnifex living beneath the Adakkian Mounts (the so-called Deep Carnifex) have been able to domesticate some of these beasts somewhat. Rest assured nothing good can come of it. The final, and possibly greatest, creation was the Kopru. Created to be of strong mind, the Kopru proved in some cases more intelligent than their masters. It was the Kopru who occupied the second-highest rung of Carnifex society, carried about in great heated, water-filled metal containers by Troglodyte slaves along the streets of Y'hog. It was also the Kopru who were entrusted with governing Va'ath-Zhemoth, as the Carnifex believed their own lives were far too precious to waste in such a "mundane" place. The Kopru soon seized control of affairs on the islands, and when no word came from Y'hog after many years, they abandoned the Troglodytes to their own fates while they made their way to the superheated pools deep underground, still controlling Troglodytes now and then when it suited them. Ultimately, a plague swept through the islands, one which killed the Troglodytes in droves, leaving nothing in its wake. So the islands have remained to this day, save for the time when humans came to those islands, but that is Matt's story... Thoughts? Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 20:12:05 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Cynidicea, Barimoor, Dythestenia, Nithia, and Tuma >Anyway, this period (the dark ages) is also the time during which the city-state of Tuma (B8) rose and fell far to the west, on the northern slopes of the Cruth mountains. I will soon (when I get finished with it) post my timeline for Tuma, as well as a discussion of its relationship with the growing Elvish kingdom of Mealiden, the Eastwind kings of the Streel valley, the Traldar clans of the south, the Hin rebellion in the Time of Heroes, the coming of the Thyatin reavers, Queen Udbala's great horde, the destruction of the Hardanger Gnomes, the launching of Flying Serraine, the Gnolls, Cynidicea, the Nagpa, Aranea, and Kopru, and the ancient curse of Arik of the One Hundred Eyes. I'd be interested in what you've got to say on Tuma, Matt! Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 20:18:18 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for >I will be handling it in a different way in future almanacs. First stage in the soon-to-be 1015 almanac, climaxing in the Return of the Moving Sun and Passing Seasons (whoever finds what this refers to gets a free copy of the 1015 almanac :) If this means the return of the Alphatian continent to the surface world, sounds good to me! I never liked the idea of Alphatia sinking anyway - it was too much radical change at one time - Alphatia belongs on the surface, IMO. Besides, I already decided to handle this differently when (if) my players make it to AC 1009 - I was thinking of having the capital nuked, and then the entire empire falls apart as nations within the empire, longing to be free, declare independence, resulting in a civil war (like after the Russian Revolution) - it would have the same effect as the sinking, IMO. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 21:02:04 -0600 From: "Galwylin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for >If this means the return of the Alphatian continent to the surface world, >sounds good to me! I never liked the idea of Alphatia sinking anyway - it >was too much radical change at one time - Alphatia belongs on the surface, >IMO. >Besides, I already decided to handle this differently when (if) my players >make it to AC 1009 - I was thinking of having the capital nuked, and then >the entire empire falls apart as nations within the empire, longing to be >free, declare independence, resulting in a civil war (like after the Russian >Revolution) - it would have the same effect as the sinking, IMO. Oh, no. I'd much rather see Alphatia become the beacon of knowledge and protection of the Hollow World that was hinted at in the Almanacs after WotI. Why bring it back to the surface world just to destroy everything it was? It will only lead back to the Alphatia vs Glantri conflict. Glantri just could not allow Alphatia to pay for all the damage and deaths it believes Alphatia was responsible for. Had not Alphatia been destroyed, the war could very well have continued destroying all of the Known World. Remember, these are to same people that destroyed a whole planet! Such a civil war would be pointless since once Glantri was back in Alphatia's sights they would band together to destroy their old nemesis. The one nation that is on the verge of civil war is Thyatis. We've already seen a shrinking of the empire and this should continue, in my opinion. Might their be other sections of the empire declaring their independence. It's time that other conflicts with other nations emerge. Thyatis vs Alphatia vs Glantri is getting old. Another point I'd like to make is that I believe the most important event was pushed into the background in the WotI and that's the coming of the Shadow Elves to Alfheim and how the rest of the Known World might feel. The Heldannic Knights turning their attentions to the Known World from the Hollow World, the Master's possible return attack against Darokin, the possible Denagoth threat to Wendar or the Known World or the shakey govenment of Thyatis are much more interesting and new. Guess that's all for now ;) - ------------------------------------------------------------ This has been a Galwylin=A9 Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 00:02:37 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones At 06:17 PM 2/5/98 -0500, you wrote: >Not just succeeding in achieving immortality. The character has to become the top dog in the Sphere, THEN embrace mortality, become Immortal again, AND become top dog in a Sphere AGAIN. It is at that point that the Black Globes come. And you're worried about Thanatos pulling this off? Even if he succeeds, it would take so long that even the Immortals won't remember him being around the first time... Glen Sprigg *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 00:05:49 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones At 07:08 PM 2/4/98 -0500, you wrote: >>status and die of old age. But if he attains immortality he will gain powers beyond the wildest dreams of an immortal! >I agree. But as it says in the original Immortals set, he should then retire from play. Oh, come on...that's what they said about high level (20+) characters, then about Immortals. And we're still playing them, right? Let's try an Old Ones campaign. "I obliterate the multiverse with a wave of my hand." "I recreate it, only better than it was before!" "I'm going to take my time and do it in about a week, then take a day off." "Copycat!" The possibilities are infinite, literally... Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 00:00:57 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker At 05:42 PM 2/5/98 EST, you wrote: ><< Excuse me, but are you suggesting that we men of Aalban are "Germany at its >worst"?? >If you are, then you are an Ethengarian pig. If not then I take back the pig comment... >Jaggar Drachenfels >> >Not a word, you dirty Glantrinian albino dragon... >Jamuga Khan *Ahem* "Excuse me, gentlemen, but I believe we can work out this little difficulty with a bit of patience and fortitude, don't you think? "Now then, we in the Darokin Diplomatic Corps have been watching the strain between Glantri and Ethengar since well before the Great War, and we feel that perhaps it is time to at least try to find some way of getting around these problems between you." *SLICE!* *ZAP!* *Cough* "Or..." *Gasp* "maybe not..." *Choke* Glen Sprigg Former member of the DDC, now in intensive care at Darokin General Temple *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 11:51:47 CET From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for >>If this means the return of the Alphatian continent to the surface >world, >>sounds good to me! I never liked the idea of Alphatia sinking anyway - >it >>was too much radical change at one time - Alphatia belongs on the >surface, >>IMO. Sorry, Khan, sorry Geoff, you didn't win a free copy of the upcoming almanac. Please insert a new coin and try again ;) Anyway I told you, it's a hint but difficult to interpret. Especially since it's not part of the Alphatian mythos, so you need to be very knowledgeable about Mystara to tell what mythos this is from. >>Besides, I already decided to handle this differently when (if) my >players >>make it to AC 1009 - I was thinking of having the capital nuked, and >then >>the entire empire falls apart as nations within the empire, longing to >be >>free, declare independence, resulting in a civil war (like after the >Russian >>Revolution) - it would have the same effect as the sinking, IMO. Well, you're not the only one to handle it that way, it seems most people who didn't like that part of WotI have Alphatia in a civil war... IIRC Cthul also has it going that way IHC. >Oh, no. I'd much rather see Alphatia become the beacon of knowledge and >protection of the Hollow World that was hinted at in the Almanacs after WotI. Why bring it back to the surface world just to destroyeverything >it was? It will only lead back to the Alphatia vs Glantri conflict. Glantri just could not allow Alphatia to pay for all the damage and deaths it believes Alphatia was responsible for. Had not Alphatia been destroyed, the war could very well have continued destroying all of the Known World. Remember, these are to same people that destroyed a whole planet! Such a civil war would be pointless since once Glantri was back >in Alphatia's sights they would band together to destroy their old nemesis. Don't worry then. I think along the same lines. >The one nation that is on the verge of civil war is Thyatis. We've already seen a shrinking of the empire and this should continue, in my opinion. Might their be other sections of the empire declaring their independence. It's time that other conflicts with other nations emerge. >Thyatis vs Alphatia vs Glantri is getting old. Another point I'd like to make is that I believe the most important event was pushed into the background in the WotI and that's the coming of the Shadow Elves to Alfheim and how the rest of the Known World might feel. The Heldannic Knights turning their attentions to the Known World from the Hollow World, the Master's possible return attack against Darokin, the possible >Denagoth threat to Wendar or the Known World or the shakey govenment of Thyatis are much more interesting and new. Galwyn, what you say is interesting : you're giving out more hints to the next almanac than I did, even though you're not part of the almanac team... What kinda new divination spell did you reasearch, mighty wizard? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 07:46:00 -0800 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones At 12:05 AM 2/6/98 -0500, you wrote: >At 07:08 PM 2/4/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>status and die of old age. But if he attains immortality he will gain powers beyond the wildest dreams of an immortal! >>I agree. But as it says in the original Immortals set, he should then retire from play. >Oh, come on...that's what they said about high level (20+) characters, then about Immortals. And we're still playing them, right? Let's try an Old Ones campaign. >"I obliterate the multiverse with a wave of my hand." "I recreate it, only better than it was before!" "I'm going to take my time and do it in about a week, then take a day off." "Copycat!" >The possibilities are infinite, literally... >Glen LOL. I think I should point out the Amber Diceless Roleplaying System to you...in which characters can pretty much do anything they want. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 07:50:18 -0800 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for I was thinking of having the capital nuked, and >>then >>>the entire empire falls apart as nations within the empire, longing to >>be >>>free, declare independence, resulting in a civil war (like after the >>Russian >>>Revolution) - it would have the same effect as the sinking, IMO. >Well, you're not the only one to handle it that way, it seems most people who didn't like that part of WotI have Alphatia in a civil war... I did not like the fall of Alphatia either. However, I also see it as an inevitable end (Thyatis and Alphatia will never have a lasting peace, and there is the Alphatia/Atlantis relationship) that will occur sometime in the future. That is why I am still running my campaign in the time before WotI. I plan on running that campaign some time in the future with the same timeline. I will not be using the same years though as my campaign is already in the year 1014... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 08:51:32 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics In a message dated 98-02-04 16:53:15 EST, you write: << << 4) You portray galleys as lumbering and slow, but according to both the movement rates in the AD&D DMG (2nd edition) and the article I read, movement under oar is actually faster than movement under sail (even though sailing ships are indeed faster than *sailed* galleys) ... although I think you are right about them being less maneuverable. Am I misreading this one? >> Most galleys should be more maneuverable than sailing ships thanks to be rowed. The point is, how long is a rowed galley faster than a sailing ship? I assume, only one or two minutes. And still remains the problem of galleys in a storm. They are simply not built for a big ocean. The Mediterranian Sea or the Black Sea are small enough to be a good galley ground, likewise the Baltic Sea, the Caspian Sea or Lake Aral. Not always, as the example of the "Estonia" shows. We should really develop the big lakes/inland seas of Mystara as TSR has nearly nothing done about this fascinating theme.>> Jamuga Khan Galley manueverabilty is somewhat suspect. I would imagine the shorter small galleys would be quite manueverable if a good coordinated crew of rowers were present. Large galleys may be slower to turn due to their longer keel and heavier bulk. Time periods also lead to deviation in performance to reflect design refinements. Length of a sustained ramming speed row. A few minutes seems logical. Enough time to close a reasonable distance to ramm the target and possibly pull away. A less intensity row could be given much more time. I like the idea of developing the lakes. IMC my Divergans are settled around a large lake simular in size to one of the Great Lakes of North America. My own detailing of it is pretty weak as yet. I am still working on the various Divergan domains. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 08:56:14 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics In a message dated 98-02-04 17:45:39 EST, you write: < Galleons are big ole hunking ships. The Spanish used such vessels. Galleons > <> I thought it a bit small myself. For Hydra, I took the liberty of adding extra capacity in the way of provisions. I did leave the number of crewmen alone. Though I did allow an additional 5 crewmen to man the sailing ship's ballista. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 09:19:42 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for Bellissaria? In a message dated 98-02-04 19:06:04 EST, you write: < BTW anyone ever wondered why the heck the Council opted for IONACE. I know < the "neutral ground" theory (simular to Washington DC) but what about the < Mnemonics Mineral found there. >> And it was not neccessary. Germany has a highly federal system and the capital (Bonn) was simply in one of the states without any special status. O.k., our new (old) capital Berlin is a state of its own but there was a try to unite it with the surrounding.>>Jamuga Khan I would have rather seen one of the Kingdoms of Bellissarius used as the new seat of power. A larger land mass would have been more secure militarily. Its position would place the capital closer to IoD and NACE's powerful Thothian forces. Plus Bellissaria is more self sufficient. I imagine that most if not all of Ionace's provisions must be shipped in. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 10:06:53 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Byzantium And Naval Tactics In a message dated 98-02-05 00:38:52 EST, you write: << Oh My Stars! I thought I was the only one who studied the Empire of Byzantium! Anyway, I just thought that since we're on the topic of the Empire, naval tactics, and cultures of Mystara, I might as well add in my thoughts.>> Well, I'll admit to not being an authority on Byzantium. The Byzantine are an interest of mine. What interested me on it was Charlamagne and his rivalry with the Eastern Empire. Any suggested books. I've pretty much exhausted encyclopedias and prefer written text to interpretations on the Web. <> I agree. I don't think I ever said it was a declining Empire. I think I may have inferred a stagnant nature via Alphatia's focus on self interests. <> I'll agree with that. <> Sounds very Alphatian. However, the mechanical birds would be magical constructs. The rising Emperor would use teleportation to appear. <> IIRC PWA lists no galleys in the naval units of Alphatia. This has always bothered me for I would have liked to see them. I haven't had the need to include them so they are not present IMC. Test of the Warlords or Into the Maelstrom may have them. IMO Greek Fire was a terrifying weapon. I imagine it could be compared to powerful magics such as FireBall. In Mystara, greek fire may not be a big deal, at least in the eyes of the Alphatians. A few encantations and the usually stubborn greek fire may be easily extenguished via magical means. IMO greek fire would be a tool of the Thyatians. Though the Alphatians may use it if needed. Almost forgot that Alphatia and Thyatis are not the only Navies out there. Ylaruam and Thothia could easily find greek fire in their arsenal. Karameikos too, since IMO its navy is more or less Thyatian in composition. The Honor Island Fleet (Ierendi) may have it. Not sure due to influx of mages. Minrothad, probably not. IMO the Thadders prefer boarding and overcoming the enemy's crew. PWA says nothing of arty on Thadder vessels. The Minrothad Gaz mentions arty but spends attention on maneuvering, disabling the sails, and boarding. <> Okay, imagine an Alphatian equivelent of Greek Fire. It would be magical of course. And it might not even entail flames. Sort of like a Blight Belcher onboard a Heldannic Skyship. How about a projectile based on Black Puddings or Green Slime? Talk about nasty. The substance may differ but the effects be roughly the same as greek fire; cause extreme damage to ship and crew without being easily negated. <> Thanks Bob and Jim. Your input on the matter is most welcome. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 09:35:52 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Byzantium In a message dated 98-02-04 21:37:02 EST, you write: << In following the recent thread about the Byzantine or Roman nature of Thyatis or Alphatia I really feel it's necessary to make a few points. Please keep in mind that I have not read TSR's AOL discussion on the topic with Bruce Heard (although I am intensely curious about what might have been discussed in that forum!).>> I wish that I had saved that discussion. It was dicussed in the message boards and I thought that the message boards would always be present. That's what I get for thinking. <> I agree. But I also wish to say that I never said that either Alphatia or Thyatis were direct images of Rome and Byzantium. IIRC I said that certain characteristics of each gave hint to each being a Mystaran representative of the two Roman Empires. <> Exactly my point. <> The "alien" aspect of works with Byzantium. I imagine the Western Romans veiwed Byzantium/Constantinople with the same air that Thyatians veiw Alphatia. A rival and definitely different. As for creativity, Byzantium isn't so bad. At least with Byzantium you do have to research it. You yourself said Byzantium's history is quite complicated. As such, it is an added flavor. Then there is Nithia/Thothia which is an obvious mirror of Egypt. Even the proverbial blind man can spot that. <> Rome is well known. IMO TSR's attention was focused on Thyatis and Brun. As such, an easy representative of a RW nation/civilization was needed. Rome is more readily comprehended than Byzantium. Everyone can picture what Rome was about. Well enough to play a game or two. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #51 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 15:29:02 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #52 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com Status: U mystara-digest Friday, February 6 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 052 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for Bellissaria? Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Byzantium And Naval Tactics Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Byzantium And Naval Tactics [none] Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for Bellissaria? Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 10:39:01 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics In a message dated 98-02-05 01:17:47 EST, John Yu wrote: << Alex295@aol.com pontificated: >I think the movement rates are for both rows and sails being used at the same >time. i I'm almost certain that oars and sails are never used at the same time.>> Actually I think they were. But not all of the time. Oars and sail were probably only used when speed was needed. The rowers supplimented the sails. >IIRC the speed is only good for short periods such as attempting a ram attack. I believe this is true. The "crusing speed" for a rowed ship is probably slower then a sailed ship with decent wind. Also, I like to point out galley rower are almost never slaves as portraited in many movies. A good navy's rower need to be very well trained.>> Cruising speed was mostly achieved via the sails. The rowers were used only when needed. Glad you brought up the "hired rowers" aspect. These were used mostly on military vessels. IIRC slave/convict rowers were used on transport vessels and such. And when slaves/convicts were used, it was usually with promises of freedom in the short term (a few years). No sense of compromising a military vessel. Slaves may find the time to refuse to row quite an effective device. Especially if the galley they are on is engaging their brethren. Or they could see their masters' defeat as a reason to gain their freedom. >I've always heard that galleys suffer in rough open waters. But then again, the Romans used galleys all over their empire. I think due to the shallow, flat keel, they are much more likely to overturn than other ships. A navy sailer once told me that ship with flat keel are in danger of overturning when they are tilted 5 to 10 degrees, while warship with the deep keel (?, don't know the real term for it), are less stable, but can tilt up to 30 degrees without any problem. I vaguely remember in one naval battle, the Roman suffer heavy losses due to weather, compounded by the fact the fortification on the ship made it very top heavy. In Greek mythology, I remember reading they need to pull their galley on to the beach every night. I'm not sure whether Roman galley require same type of care, but I seem to remember they generally don't go beyond the sight of coast line. >> For the most part Greek and Roman galleys were shallow keel. To give stability, the hulls were usually quite wide. This was one of my reasons to assume that a galley was quite sluggish as the drag of the hull must have been great. I am not sure about later galleys. Design changes may have dealt with the keel problem. Seaworthiness rating (AD&D) for a Dromond and Great Galley are 40% and 45% (respectfully). As compared to a Caravel which receives a 70%. Once again, the Minrothad Gaz has the listings for D&D but that tome is upstairs and I have trudged up the stairs once too often this morning. :-) I agree with the coast hugging aspect. However, I wish to point out that the geography of Mystara allows for island groupings to act as waypoints. Still, the notations of Thyatian presense across Mystara attest to the galley venturing out. The Hinterlands, IoD, and Aegos (post WotI) are examples. Though I will stress that I doubt you'll see a Thyatian circumnavigating Mystara in a galley. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 10:51:08 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for Bellissaria? In a message dated 98-02-05 05:35:57 EST, you write: << >And now I declare the discussion opened. Participate and read >the text below. This discussion promises to be interesting. Being the guy in charge of the NACE for the net almanacs (I invented the NACE), I'd like to know what others think of it. So far no one but me has been interested in discuting about the NACE and Alphatia except to give me an idea or two, but I'm willing to create and animate such a discussion group for next (1016) year. Email me privately if you're interested. With recent discussion about Alphatia/Atlantis, Alphatian Gaz, and now Belissaria, it seems there are indeed people who like Alphatia and may be willing to write its future... >> I wasn't aware of the lack of interest in Alphatia until quite recent. In fact, I had taken notice of the center stage Alphatia took in Net Almanac 1014. I assumed it a reflection of the List. As for Ionace, I'll admit to not being thrill at the locale. But this is a fantasy setting. A raid or two might influence the Council to a change of locale. Speaking of the Alphatia Gaz, how about Herve sitting in council. Draw up a list of kingdoms and disperse them to those interested in the Gaz project. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 11:27:36 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Byzantium And Naval Tactics In a message dated 98-02-05 08:37:01 EST, you write: <> I've commented on Greek Fire in another post. In short, I do think that Alphatia would use greek fire if there were no boltmen handy. IMO Alphatians would use a more magical means to gain the roughly equivelent effect. To use Greek Fire would be "too Thyatian". <> I have to disagree with you here. If Alphatia commited herself to all out war, then Thyatis would fall. This was shown in WotI. Before it is brought up, I'll address the two previous failed invasions. Both were sucessful but ultimately failed due to the vices of the Alphatian mages. Alphatia is just to big to be conquered. In WotI it took the DoomsdayWeapon to stop Alphatia. And in WotI, Alphatia had soundly thrashed Thyatis and settled for peace primarily due to the influence of the Shiye-Lawr. <> I agree with this. And WotI supports your case. The destruction wrought in that war was unprecedented. If Thyatis hadn't sued for peace, then the destruction would have been even greater. And then there would have been the Glantrian defenses to face. IMO Alphatia would have prevailed but the losses sustained in the whole conflict would have greatly undermined her ability to hold what she had gained. The coldwar aspect works for me. I have often seen the "snaking borders of the Isle of Dawn" as a sort of limited war. Sort of like the conflicts the Cold War powers used to keep each other in check: Korea, Vietnam, Gulf War, and a few others most don't recognize. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 11:48:48 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) In a message dated 98-02-05 19:25:37 EST, you write: << The original point was, that you cannot change the written rules for your own and then use this rules in discussions on the MML as they were the Ten Commandments from the Bible. Some of us are still holding the written rules, and it's really difficult to understand the arguments of somebody who shows such a behaviour. >>Jamuga Khan But TSR did change the Rules. Rules Suppliments were changes. And the Rules are not concrete. Deviation is part of D&D. If there wasn't deviation, there would be no split between D&D and AD&D. That is the big beef with AD&D isn't it? Too constraining and too much dice rolling. As to rules and the List, I rarely impose my veiw of Rules upon the List. Instead, I tend to focus on subject matter such as NPCs and nations. Etienne d'Ambreville is still Rad whether he is quoted in D&D or AD&D stats. It's the character and nations that bind us as a group. Not Rules. What we choose to do in our own campaigns brings much to the discussion on the List. For with each of our twisted little deviations, we inject new ideas into a cancelled game setting. I often wonder of the consequences if TSR did revive Mystara. Boy, would it screw up my campaign. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 12:19:22 -0800 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Byzantium And Naval Tactics ><> >I have to disagree with you here. If Alphatia commited herself to all out war, >then Thyatis would fall. But this is precisely what I meant by "character". Yes, if the Alphatians committed themselves...I mean, who could stand up to 1000 36th level MUs right? But they don't have the same spirit as the Thyatians. This was shown in WotI. Before it is brought up, I'll >address the two previous failed invasions. Both were sucessful but ultimately failed due to the vices of the Alphatian mages. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 12:20:31 -0800 From: Daly Subject: [none] Here is my suggestion for the Kingdom of Haven as developed by Geoff Gander and myself...:) THE KINGDOM OF HAVEN Ruler: Queen Kryndylya (C36, N, Kagyar) has known Mylertendal for the past 50 years and is good friends with her. The ancient wizardess sought the young queen intentionally to influence her in the direction of the arts. Familiar quote: "Why should I live in the city? There are all those...people there." Important Personages: Mylertendal (M36, L, Alphatia) is the oldest NPC Alphatian ever listed in canon material. At Fifteen years of age she looked upon the Alphatian countryside and had a vision. She worked tirelessly to promote taste and beauty and to swell her countrymen with pride for the visual aspects of their kingdom and empire. It was her philosophy of beautification which took an empire with chaotic splashes of color and transformed it into a beautiful colorful mosaic which awes travellers even today. Unlike many long-lived mages of other worlds, she is not a recluse. She does not like being interrupted from her sculpting for 'unimportant' things, but she does not hermit herself away in some odd corner of the world. No one wonders if that old magess is still around. Everyone knows because everyone occasionally sees her. In many ways, Mylertendal is a part of the city itself. She is an icon, a landmark. There are those who travel far just to catch a glimpse of her. Familiar quote: "I can think of no more noble pursuit than the beautification of the land around me." Barumatoran (M12, L, Ordana) is a farmer. He holds a sizable area of land well north of the Great Southern Swamp. He is a good man, kind to his slaves and generous to his neighbors. He is somewhat of an oddity among the farmers though. He does not believe in using magic to aid his plants in growing. He believes strictly in using his own hands, or his servants, to till the land and pull the weeds. When too much rain threatens he takes natural steps to aid his livelihood. When there is a drought, he uses wagons to carry water from the Great Southern Swamp to his farm. There it is purified by nonmagical means. His neighbors shake their heads fondly at the old man and often ask him why he does everything "the difficult way". He only smiles back and responds in a way that baffles them even more. What can not be disputed is how well his produce grows and how tasty it is. Great men near and far have come seeking his crops over all others. Because of his methods though, his crops are not as numerous as other farmers and carry a pretty hefty price. Familiar quote: "Though a mage, I was never a man to rely on magic." Callaanatar (D17, N, Unknown) does not say much but his paintings are well sought after. He paints forest scenes and wildlife, but with incredible life like backgrounds. Upon looking at one of his paintings, a viewer normally dismisses it as thirdrate work. The main focus, usually a man or a woman or a building, is never well done. But then as the viewer continues looking, brief movements can be seen in the background. This is always the corner of the eye shadowy movement. The viewer generally comes away with a haunted feeling. Familiar quote: None. He never speaks...only smiles. Philosophy: There are two ways of looking at the obsession citizens of Haven have with beautification. The first is the outsider who docks at the great port of Aasla. What greets him is an enormous city that, while not as big as Sundsvall, is larger than most in the Known World. The outsider looks in awe at the gently sculpted buildings with their delicate stonework etching the corners. At first he is bewildered by the size and beauty of the structures but a friendly resident happily points out that any building in Aasla is quite easy to find. If the outsider seeks a tavern, look for earthy browns and greens. If he is instead interested in a magic shop, he should look for sky blue. Any building can be found quickly in this manner. But after some time passes the outsider becomes aware of the neglect to certain "details" because of the importance of beautification. Certain corners of the kingdom are dangerous to travel through because even the army is used more often than not for appearance. The soldier is often part of the decoration of a government building or is busy preparing for the next big parade. Parades are a familiar sight incidently. Not because of patriotic fervor, they are held for the beauty of the march. Complex patterns of marching with the soldiers twirling their staves and playing lively music are what constitute a parade in Haven. Nowhere is the danger of travel seen more than in the south east where a county, held by one of the non-spellcasting governers of the Kingdom of Haven, is in constant danger of incursions by bandits, undead, and lizardmen from the Great Southern Swamp. As this is a major land trade route to the capital of the empire, something will have to be done soon. The queen is likely to prefer hiring a party to clean out the swamp rather than taking steps that might deplete the royal funds and take away from her own artistic pleasures. The second way of seeing the obsession with art by the common Haven citizen, is one of patriotism. About 2000 years ago the empire was run by Emperor Kerothar. He was a vicious self important man who sought to dominate the new world to which his people had arrived. An intelligent farseeing wizardess by the name of Aasla led her people to what would be known as Haven (for it was a haven from the power hungry people of the central empire)and taught them to strive for peace. She went on to become an immortal and looks after the empire as an immortal by the name of Alphatia. She named herself Alphatia not because she wanted to be the "head" of the pantheon of her people, rather she saw the need for a new way of looking at things. In some ways she saw taking the name Alphatia as an apology to their former world. There the "Alphatians" were known as Atlanteans and it was the world that was called "Alphatia". In her own mind, taking the name Alphatia was like an admittance of guilt for what happened to devastate their former world. As Alphatia she strives to teach her people peace. Now it was about 300 years ago that a powerful wizardess named Mylertendal looked at the empire in all its chaotic glory and decided that a new direction was needed. Just as the visionary Aasla led her people in what she thought was right, Mylertendal saw the mixed colors of the buildings and the wild sprawling forests as needing direction. She began the idea of 'beautification' along a strict code of colorization and harmony. Her philosophy spread over the entire kingdom and in some cases the entire empire. Now, followers of this philosophy see it as their patriotic duty to see that the colors of their clothes and buildings match pleasantly. Outsiders should be in awe, according to those who follow this philosophy, of Alphatia not only for the incredible magical achievements but also for their superior taste and wisdom in constructional beauty. What normally appears to an outsider as a disinterest in "what's important" is not truly disinterest. The rulers and artists of Haven are quite interested in bringing the criminals to justice--they just don't want to be the ones to do it. That is the job of someone else. "Hire an adventurer, send the army, elect an official, whatever it takes. My job is to design the orchard that will grow in the middle of this here town in a few days and its got to be done right." Landmarks: 1) Mylertendal's Tower in Aasla. Niches cover the walls of the tower. These niches either hold or will at some time in the future hold statues of those Mylertendal considers beautiful either physically or spiritually. 2) The Haunted Marshes (aka The Great Southern Swamp). Some few whisperthat this swamp began when the first native people of the continent were slaughtered at this spot 2000 years ago. Emperor Kerothar's men ambushed a tribe that had made peaceful overtures and ruthlessly killed all of them. It was one of the acts that drove Aasla to lead her people away from the center of the new Alphatian civilization. But most mages agree that whatever the origin of the swamp, it has certainly grown so large because of the weather that keeps getting pushed to the area by shortsighted wizards seeking to please their people. Seeking the eternal sunny day, perhaps with a light cooling shower, thaumaturges are continually being paid by rulers to shove the nastier storms away. Weather patterns collect in this one area and constantly drench it. An explorer can expect very rough storms and a perpetual fog in this area. 3) The Ivory Forest. In the northernmost corner of this kingdom there is a birchwood forest. It is filled with white and silver trees and looks quite beautiful no matter what the season. There is a druid that looks after the forest and makes sure that not too much of the bark is taken from the trees by any traveller. The druid(Callaanatar) also culls the dead trees and keeps a supply for any woodcutters who come along. He sells the wood to the woodcutters for a fairly cheap sum and a promise not to cut any more wood than the druid gives permission for. This arrangement works well with the woodcutters who are aware of the situation. But there are those come and ignorantly cut the trees and then are punished by Callaanatar. Generally the druid has a short temper, flies into a rage, and sucks the woodcutters soul into a magic paintbrush he always carries with him. After this, the woodcutter may be seen as a shadowy presence in future paintings... 4) Commuter Wormhole Stations. The Kingdom of Haven has the cleanest stations all located underground. When an individual has to go from one city to another in a short amount of time, and when he is unconcerned with price and danger, he goes to a commuter wormhole station and buys a ticket. Tickets are sold in 100gp denomination and the overall price paid is spelled out in glowing numbers on the card. For each consecutive station passed on the way to his destination, 100gp is deducted from the overall price of the card. Once he buys his ticket, the traveller passes through security and through the magic portal. Neither the empire nor Haven guarantee safe passage however. There are warning signs plastered all over any station (plastered very comely in Haven of course) that explain the dangers of wormhole travel. Astral creatures, strange occurences, even wormhole disruptions are prevalent in travelling through the astral. If one was to make a map of these wormholes they would appear as several lines leading out from the center of Sundsvall. Of course any such map is merely representative as the wormholes themselves are located on the astral. Only the arriving and departing portals are present on the continent. Aasla, Lesir, Fifeton, Lath, and Ashar each have a wormhole stop on the way to Sundsvall. 4) The Laughing Flagon on the Alphas River. The Laughing Flagon is the name of a chain of high priced taverns for the well-to-do. This particular one specializes in "Dragon Steak" and "Griffon Leg" dishes that are specially prepared with spices from Ylaruam. Visitors from the Known World find this chain of taverns very satisfying as the portions are not the typical small plates that are normal for Alphatia. However, the dishes are arranged exquisitly with a cook's signature drizzled on the plate with some sugary concoction. The ale has "special properties" -one makes the drinker hiccup multi-coloured bubbles, and another causes cloud patterns to form above the ale, and the drinker can watch tiny weather patterns develop (watch out for that lightning!) 5) Alasarntram's Micro-Brewery. This is a much smaller tavern and owned by a wizard who likes to be reminded of his former adventuring life. The tavern is tucked away on a forgotten street in Adiach but it is well known to the dwarves who visit from Denwarf-Hurgon. If the party aids a dwarf in the vicinity he will likely show them the tavern very proudly and warn them to keep it the secret that it is. Those who can find the place always return for the drinks that glow softly, changing their colours gradually as time passes and sending their muted colors spinning lazily about the darkened tavern. There are fine wines here that, when consumed, will cause whatever the drinker is talking about to materialize next to him as an apparition for a few seconds. The barkeep/owner is a retired mage who likes to be reminded of his adventuring life, and if he hears a good story he will create a special phantasmal force to accompany the narrative as the patron speaks. If especially touched by a story he may tell the speaker of a long lost hoard that was never recovered... Army: As stated before, the army is there to look pretty. This is not to say they do not train, but their training consists of public displays of well choreographed skill. It is typically more a performance than a learning experience. More important for the defense of the city are the magical constructs. The first an invading navy is likely to see are the two crystal globes that hang over the entrance to the shipyards. They fire a powerful magic missle when activated. Also there are the sculptures within the city itself. Over the last couple of centuries they have been chiseled and enchanted by Mylertendal and her apprentices. They are a part of the city's construction: 6 minotaur formed from obsidian lining the steps to the city library, two huge bronze statues that appear to hold up the roof to the government building, about 20 gargoyles perched in various comical positions along the roof of a chapel to Kagyar are examples of the statuary that helps defend the city and keep it peaceful. The inhabitants know of the power of the constructions and are generally quite lawful in their dealings in the city lest they run afoul of the enchantments. An invading army might very well find itself facing an opposing army of 4,000 constructs of various types. There have, incidently, been few attacks. In fact there have been not attacks since the beautification began. Colors: The colors of the Kingdom of Haven are all 9. The heraldic shield is actually represented by a round shield and the colors spray straight out from the center. Properly done, one cannot tell where one color begins and another ends. Ultraviolet and Infrared are represented on the circle. Flag: The same color circle but on a white background. The white symbolizes peace. The color circle was added 200 years ago replacing a broken sword. Imports: Exports: *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 09:36:26 PST From: "clayton cook" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones I was thinking that maybe before an Immortal starts his\her journey to becoming an Old One, said Immortal could create artifacts so that in the absence of his\her presence the loyal clerics will not loose their spellcasting abilities. And maybe set it up so that in the anticipation of his\her mortal reincarnation, the Immortal should assign a gaurdian or protector. Of course said gaurdian\protector will have to find this mortal. Another thing to keep in mind is that not all mortals want to become immortal (keeping in mind that they have no recollection of being immotal before). Soooo, to guarantee that the mortal will aspire to immortalhood, there should be a trail of clues that will reveal ( by means of adventures ) to the mortal about his\her true identity. In the end, maybe his\her clerics, for being loyal in his absence, can watch their Immortal patron be reborn as an Immortal. Some feedback maybe? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 18:42:55 CET From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for Bellissaria? << >This discussion promises to be interesting. Being the guy in charge of the NACE for the net almanacs (I invented the NACE), I'd like to know what others think of it. So far no one but me has been interested in discuting about the NACE and Alphatia except to give me an idea or two, >but I'm willing to create and animate such a discussion group for next (1016) year. Email me privately if you're interested. With recent discussion about Alphatia/Atlantis, Alphatian Gaz, and now Belissaria, it seems there are indeed people who like Alphatia and may be willing to >write its future... >> >I wasn't aware of the lack of interest in Alphatia until quite recent. In >fact, I had taken notice of the center stage Alphatia took in Net Almanac >1014. I assumed it a reflection of the List. Not exactly. In fact, I had realized that much info was missing in JA, and set myself at filling in the gaps. I started with the Alphatian region, and made up the NACE and all other stuff that can b efound on my page, for 1013. Quite content with what I had done :) I decided to continue and write 1014 events. At that time I didn't consider a whole almanac, as it would be too much work for me alone. Then came Michael, who wanted to do an almanac. So we constituted a team, and we did it. The central place given to NACE in that almanac was simply because... I had worked much on it before, so there was some ready material. Anyway, the region did deserve it, as did the HW, and the SC. Unfortunately, most regions besides the KW (or OW, Old World, if you go by the new name) do not spark as much interest, and there aren't as many contributors to the NACE, the HW, the SC, Davania, etc, as there are to OW. Okay, that was a BIG hint to would-be contributors ;) So, if you want to contribute to the 1016 almanac, get in touch with me for the NACE, Alphatia, HW, with Brizio for SE, with Andrew for 'noids, Ethangar, Atruaghin, with Michael for SC, Davania, and the rest of the OW. Work on the 1016 almanac will begin after we release the 1015 one, ie hopefully early March (yes, we are very very late on our schedule). >As for Ionace, I'll admit to not being thrill at the locale. But this is a >fantasy setting. A raid or two might influence the Council to a change of >locale. We'll see. I doubt so. >Speaking of the Alphatia Gaz, how about Herve sitting in council. Draw up a >list of kingdoms and disperse them to those interested in the Gaz project. Cool, I've been granted a seat at the Council ;) Well, thanks but... I'm already in charge of part of the almanac, and I've my real life too... So if there's to be an Alphatian almanac, I fear you'll have to find someone else to supervise it. :( OTHO, I'm definetly interested in a smaller scale Alphatian almanac, ie for the atlas section of the almanac. You know, those relatively short descriptions a la JA, with stats a la PWA. _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Almanac page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 14:31:26 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones << And we're still playing them, right? Let's try an Old Ones campaign. >> And what comes next? The Undescriptables? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 14:31:26 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) << Mighty Khan, can you please translate me "es wird in keinster Weise durch die Regeln gedeckt"? My German is not that good... :-) >> No problem, but it was for Peter from Wien, anyway. (He should be able to read it.) Hm, there's a problem after all, as my English is not so good as my German. But I try... Translation: "...it's not backed by rules in any way." O.k., I promise, I will not try again to write in German... :-) Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 14:56:11 EST From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones << I was thinking that maybe before an Immortal starts his\her journey to becoming an Old One, said Immortal could create artifacts so that in the absence of his\her presence the loyal clerics will not loose their spellcasting abilities. Some feedback maybe? Just to help you out I think you should know that no Immortals understand how Old Ones are created. They don't know that if they become mortal again, they have a chance to become an Old One. Khronus, has done more research on them than any Immortal by far, and still is baffled (100 wisdom) as to the nature of the Old Ones. Your idea can still work though. If the Immortal decided to become mortal and ask another Immortal to watch over her followers, the same result would occur.......just so long as you understand that the Immortal doesn't know anything of becomeing an Old One. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 15:08:57 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones At 02:56 PM 2/6/98 EST, you wrote: ><< >I was thinking that maybe before an Immortal starts his\her journey to becoming an Old One, said Immortal could create artifacts so that in the absence of his\her presence the loyal clerics will not loose their spellcasting abilities. >Some feedback maybe? >Just to help you out I think you should know that no Immortals understand how Old Ones are created. They don't know that if they become mortal again, they have a chance to become an Old One. Khronus, has done more research on them than any Immortal by far, and still is baffled (100 wisdom) as to the nature of the Old Ones. >Your idea can still work though. If the Immortal decided to become mortal and ask another Immortal to watch over her followers, the same result would occur.......just so long as you understand that the Immortal doesn't know anything of becomeing an Old One. This would work especially well if (storywise) said immortal became mortal for some purpose other than the acquiring of power. I agree that immortals don't know much about the Old Ones...in fact the very idea of "Old Ones" is merely a theory. But if an immortal decided he had to sacrifice his immortality as a desperate move for the greater good of...whatever--then I think it would be a cool storyline. Plus this storyline works best, from an actual campaign perspective, if the players don't have any knowledge of the possible benefits involved. That way the sacrifice of immortality is truly a sacrifice. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 20:56:18 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones At 14:31 06-02-98 EST, you wrote: ><< And we're still playing them, right? Let's try an Old >Ones campaign. >> >And what comes next? The Undescriptables? >Jamuga Khan As long as I can get to play mighty Cthulhu himself I won't mind. Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 14:31:25 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) << All joking aside, you are absolutely right. One cannot make up a rule and then hold everyone hostage to it. However I see no problem with list members suggesting alternate rules. >> Each man can do what he want, no question, but at least he has to use very much IMCs to make clear what he is talking about. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 14:31:23 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker << *SLICE!* *ZAP!* *Cough* "Or..." *Gasp* "maybe not..." *Choke* Glen Sprigg Former member of the DDC, now in intensive care at Darokin General Temple Let me express my deepest dismay about the unfortunate fate that happened to you. For sure is was Cretia's work just another time. May Tubak deliver the chance of revenge to you at the right time and may Yamuga restore your poor health. Unfortunately such events cannot be avoided with these Glantrinian heretics evolved. Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #52 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 04:39:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #53 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com Status: U mystara-digest Saturday, February 7 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 053 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for [MYSTARA] - Nightmare Dimension Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors [MYSTARA] - Immortal Manifestation Forms Re: [MYSTARA] - Nightmare Dimension Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - Nightmare Dimension [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] Trolling (was Immortal Mortal Identities) Re: [MYSTARA] - Byzantium Re: [MYSTARA] - Byzantium [MYSTARA] - Witches spells & powers [MYSTARA] - Parry, Disarm, And other fighters' options [MYSTARA] - Weapon Masteries [MYSTARA] - Kol and glantrian politics ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 14:31:24 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics << But an English ship of the line came far after the galley in terms of development. I really am out of my knowledge area as I don't know much about ships in general. But I can say that they "could easily have" or they carry a certain amount of cargo says nothing about how much crew is needed to power one. >> But not so much after the war sailing ships. I know, the ships don't fit all into same era, likewise the armours. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 14:31:27 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics << Galley manueverabilty is somewhat suspect. I would imagine the shorter small galleys would be quite manueverable if a good coordinated crew of rowers were present. Large galleys may be slower to turn due to their longer keel and heavier bulk. Time periods also lead to deviation in performance to reflect design refinements. >> On TV I've just heard the dates about the Greece trireme: Way to brake: One ship's length Time to turn on the point: 60 seconds Circle to turn: less than 100 meters (more or less 100 yards) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 15:43:54 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones On Fri, 6 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: ><< And we're still playing them, right? Let's try an Old >Ones campaign. >> >And what comes next? The Undescriptables? "...and beyond the Old Ones, could there possibly be One, who watches and waits?" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 15:25:58 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) On Thu, 5 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: >The original point was, that you cannot change the written rules for your own and then use this rules in discussions on the MML as they were the Ten Commandments from the Bible. Some of Full of religious references for a mere game, eh? Try loosening that rod up your back once in a while. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 15:36:58 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: >Besides, I already decided to handle this differently when (if) my players make it to AC 1009 - I was thinking of having the capital nuked, and then the entire empire falls apart as nations within the empire, longing to be free, declare independence, resulting in a civil war (like after the Russian Revolution) - it would have the same effect as the sinking, IMO. That's what I've done with Alphatia in my campaigns. Nuked Sundsvall- and that leaves a lot of nasty magical radiation lying around the region, altering the survivors, etc. (Basically, the area of Vertiloch is a nasty radiation soaked ruin- I borrowed some info/etc. from Gamma World to make this really nasty; the crater where Sundsvall would be is still a massive whirlpool/maelstrom). The rest of the nations have either declared independence (Blackheart, Shiye-Lawr, Arogansa), backed a replacement "Emperor" (Zandor, his sister... whatever her name is; not Mariella) or someone else. Certain nations- notably Arogansa- are trying to conquer more territory. Theranderol and Randel are in the midst of one of their civil wars (as old tensions rise to the fore once more). All in all, I think it is better. It preserves Alphatia as an interesting place to play, and I think it makes it even more interesting, as political tension and chaos rule the continent. And some wizards have begun to hire dwarves and halflings to scour the radiation soaked ruins of Sundsvall for secrets that may have survived... :) - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 15:45:59 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Nightmare Dimension The first of two thoughts that occurred to me last night- This one presumes that one uses the information on Dimensions presented in the original Gold Box set: As presented, the information in the Gold Box set has the Nightmare creatures and the Normals residing within the same Prime Plane, just in different dimensions (the subject of a recent discussion on the list). This being the case, one would presume that the "Mystara" ("Aratsym"?) inhabited by the Nightmare creatures is virtually identical to the Mystara inhabited by the Normals. In which case the Nightmare creatures would have been affected by the whole Wrath of the Immortals in ways similar to the way the Normals were affected- as far as, say, the sinking of Alphatia ("Aitahpla"?) goes. At least, this is how it seems to me. The question is exactly to what exent are the similarities between the two dimensional perspectives? Would the Nightmare creatures have their own "Radiance"? Would the Immortals have had to wage war on both Dimensional viewpoints in order to make their point? Instead of starting a war in the Nightmare realms, would Ixion have had to institute a period of peace and tranquility? Mainly just some philosophical issues to ponder. I don't know that there is really an answer... though I'd love to see what everyone else thinks. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 16:23:20 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: >To build upon their first achievement, the Carnifex then created the Ssithek (sp? - see Creature Catalogue), a beast not only capable of fighting, but capable of surviving in drier climates - a feat which the Carnifex were not capable of doing for prolonged periods. These creatures were more willful, and were not so easily cowed. In the wars against the Lhomarrians, many Ssithek escaped their masters while on Davania and fled southwards, towards the drying lands that would become the Ayptian and Izondian Deserts. There they have remained to this day, living in their isolated cities hidden between great crags of rock in cliff faces. Interesting. Sounds similar to Mystaros' origin of these creatures (though he had them as creations of the Serpent Empire). There's at least three of us, then (Mystaros, you and I) who like the Sis'thik as being denizens of the Aryptian basin. I think DM has agreed with this thought as well, actually. Maybe we'll have to do a writeup on them. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 15:49:20 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Manifestation Forms Here's the second thought that occurred to me. It was prompted in many ways by the discussion of Manifestation bodies, etc. According to the Gold Box set, Immortals perceive one more dimension than mortals. Thus, when they look at each other, they will see not just the three dimensions that we normally see, but also a fourth dimension. How does this relate to the bodies they take, then? I'm not exactly sure how to phrase the concept I'm trying to relate, or even if there is a question here (rather than a philosophical comment), but what would be the advantage in taking, say, the form of a "Wizened Old Man"- like Odin, for instance- if the Immortals are not just going to see the three dimensional body, but instead some other aspect that mortal eyes can't relate to? Why would they take certain physical forms for the sake of interaction with one another, when the appearance of that form will be different for them than it is for mortals? Something to think about, anyway. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 18:54:03 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nightmare Dimension On Fri, 6 Feb 1998, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: >As presented, the information in the Gold Box set has the Nightmare creatures and the Normals residing within the same Prime Plane, just in different dimensions (the subject of a recent discussion on the list). >This being the case, one would presume that the "Mystara" ("Aratsym"?) inhabited by the Nightmare creatures is virtually identical to the Mystara inhabited by the Normals. In which case the Nightmare creatures There is no grounds for this assumption. If this assumption were true, then there would be an even number of new Immortals, half of them human(ish) and the other half daemon(ish). This is not the case. The Nightmare Dimension is not a "mirror image" but a result of the barrier at the 6th dimension. It has its own growth and identity. >make their point? Instead of starting a war in the Nightmare realms, would Ixion have had to institute a period of peace and tranquility? You misunderstand the entire Nightmare Dimension. It is not a place of war and evil, but one with a different outlook. As far as its inhabitants are concerned, Mystara exists in the Nightmare Dimension, inhabited by demonic creatures who murder the soil for food and torture rocks to make hell-murder-shine (a literal translation of a Daemon word for "metal"). Furthermore, these evil, hair-covered beings like to impose *order*--they're all *slavers*! Okay, a few of them understand the Natural Disorder of things, but they're in the minority. Most of them are hideous monsters, bent on enslaving the Multiverse to their schemes instead of just letting everything unfold in its individual and unique way. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 20:09:03 EST From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones << But if an immortal decided he had to sacrifice his immortality as a desperate move for the greater good of...whatever--then I think it would be a cool storyline. >> I agree. Also, since the Immortal must be at the top of her sphere, this would be an unimagineable event. Imagine if all of a sudden, Ixion or Khronus, were just gone. It would definately make a good story. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 20:21:29 EST From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nightmare Dimension << Mainly just some philosophical issues to ponder. I don't know that there is really an answer... though I'd love to see what everyone else thinks. I don't think that everything in the Nightmare realm happens on Mystara. I know that all the monsters in nightmares exist there, and that in the natives of the Nightmare dimention's have nightmares about the natives to Mystara. On encounters i like to roll fear checks on both sides. I don't really think that Mystara's world events necessarily happen over there, but that would be a good idea for some sort of reflection or backwards dimention......where our past is thier future and vice versa. Could make a hell of a liveing there as a fortune teller. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 18:37:58 -0000 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] Trolling (was Immortal Mortal Identities) bjm10@cornell.edu spewed forth... >On Thu, 5 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: >>The original point was, that you cannot change the written rules for your own and then use this rules in discussions on the MML as they were the Ten Commandments from the Bible. Some of >Full of religious references for a mere game, eh? Try loosening that rod >up your back once in a while. Lame trolls posted to a mailing list, eh? Try not to incite flame wars with such wit. It has a tendency to annoy the Admin. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 23:13:55 -0500 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Byzantium On Thurs, 5 Feb 1998, bjm10@cornell.edu wrote >Byzantium? Never heard of it, mate. I see your point about the difference in opinion regarding the duration of the Roman Empire. I use the term "Byzantium" to refer to the "Eastern Roman Empire" for the same reasons that most actual historians do, though. Anyway, if you refer to the whole thing as the Roman Empire it's going to result in some confusion on the mailing list. >First, the possessive of "it" in English is "its". Thanks for the grammar lesson. >Second, the art, religion, and culture of the Roman Empire of the 6th-15th centuries was no more "mystical" than that of Western Europe. Well, I find it hard to agree with you there. It comes down to a matter of opinion, I guess. Many of the elements of the Byzantine Empire that are viewed as "mystical" pertain to the Christian Orthodox faith and its representation in the art, culture, politics, and even architecture of the East as compared to the West at the time. Maybe we should define what we're talking about when we say "mystical" but clearly this adjective is frequently applied to Byzantium. I used the fact that the Church of Karameikos was derived from the Church of Thyatis (and that the Church of Thyatis was presumably more-or-less "Byzantine" at the time GAZ 1 was published) to add a lot of flavour to my Karameikos campaign. The definite Slavic feel to the Church of Traladara and the presumably Byzantine feel to the Church of Karameikos allowed for the grafting of some very real world situations and conflicts into the campaign as inspiration for events and for atmosphere. For those averse to poring over dusty tomes of history, Harry Turtledove wrote a book called "Thessalonica" (published only last year, I think) which goes into life at the time of the Eastern Roman / Byzantine Empire when it was fending off "swarming Slavs and Avars". The plot is, of course, strictly fictional (with creatures from Greek mythology playing a role in the background) but it's more gripping than any of the Mystara novels published thus far, and provides all sorts of excellent ideas forKarameikan/Thyatian life (and adventures) in Mystara. >However, I will agree fully that the Roman Empire of the 6th-15th centuries was not at all "Arabic". It was Greek in language, Hellenizing in outlook, and Christian in philosophy. Furthermore, it directly continued and developed the culture of the Roman Empire of earlier centuries. No argument (apart from the aforementioned semantics) there! Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 23:42:50 -0500 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Byzantium On Fri, 6 Feb 1998, Alex295@aol.com wrote: >I agree. But I also wish to say that I never said that either Alphatia or Thyatis were direct images of Rome and Byzantium. IIRC I said that certain characteristics of each gave hint to each being a Mystaran representative of >the two Roman Empires. That is certainly one way to look at it. My own preference is to take the characteristics of both RW empires to flesh out Thyatis and to rely on nothing on Earth to mold Alphatia. Part of this is because the native Mystaran cultures are all so different that it's already difficult enough to portray Alphatia as truly different (alien) from them all. In that way using any RW cultures to flesh out Alphatia might be viewed as a substitute for the opportunity for some really original ideas (as are proliferating in the "Brainstorming Atlantis" thread). >The "alien" aspect of works with Byzantium. I imagine the Western Romans veiwed Byzantium/Constantinople with the same air that Thyatians veiw Alphatia. A rival and definitely different. Hard to disagree with you there! >Rome is well known. IMO TSR's attention was focused on Thyatis and Brun. As such, an easy representative of a RW nation/civilization was needed. Rome is more readily comprehended than Byzantium. Everyone can picture what Rome was about. Well enough to play a game or two. Yup. That's why I like to use both Western and Eastern Roman Empire stuff to add breadth and depth to Thyatis. It's quite the sprawling Empire itself, at times, and quite heterogeneous. Anyway, that's just the way things have evolved IMC. I'm not against drawing comparisons between the two Empires of both worlds, the dynamics of two Empires pressing against each other is a complex and intriguing set of affairs to describe. I think RW history serves as a good template for most of us (except those with minds like David Eddings or Robert Jordan). Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 10:01:06 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Witches spells & powers Hi again, fellow listmembers! This time i was skipping thru GAZ3 and i found out some interesting things in the Seven Secret Crafts section, regarding witches' powers (page 76). First of all, the third circle power "Witches' Curse" says that the witch can affect a number of levels or HD equal to her level, and that if only a single person is to be affected, then his family will be cursed for as many generations as the witch has levels. Now given this fact and since the curse can be dispelled only with a Wish, do you think the victim is (are) entitled a Saving throw against spells or not? The description of the power doesn't mention a ST.. Second thing: "witches use a form of chaotic magic affecting Charisma. Upon ending studies at each circle, witches lose 2 points of Cha (to a minimum of 3)." (end quote) Now, two questions: first of all, does this mean that they lose 2 CHA points for each power they study or for each circle they advance (for a total of 8 powers and 5 circles)? Also, supposing they only loose 2 points of CHA for each circle they advance, why has Carnelia de Belcadiz (High Mistress of Witchcraft) a Charisma score of 13? Theoretically, she would have lost 5*2=10 points of Charisma, thus reducing her CHA to 3 (i don't believe she had 23 points of CHA!).. Also, consider these other Witches in GAZ3: WITCHCRAFT - Carmina de Belcadiz (2nd) Cha 18 (!) - Yolanda de Belcadiz (1st) no Cha given - Victoria de Belcadiz (2nd) no Cha given - Gilles Grenier (2nd) Cha 14 - Szasza Markovitch (3rd) Cha 18 (!) - Isabella de Montebello (3rd) Cha 15 Clearly, Carmina would have lost at least 4 points of Cha, and Isabella and Szasza at least 6, but they have really high Charisma scores! How can this be? I know there's another power of the witches that increases the Charisma called "Witches' Charm" (second circle), but it lasts only for 1 turn per level of the witch and affects only those within 300' of the witch, so it's not the cause of the problem. Maybe somebody forgot something when writing down those scores? How's the thing handled in G:KoM? (though i doubt it wil be any useful as a source..) Sidenote 1: since Szasza is now a vampiress, i think she's stuck at 3rd level as a witch (she cannot go to Glantri city to receive further training as per rules due to her nature!) Sidenote 2: i think it would be better if the Witches reduced their Charisma AND Comeliness scores (if used), because hunchback and croaking voice affect comeliness more than charisma. Thus i'd say they should subtract 1 point from Charisma and 2 from Comeliness (min 3) for each circle they advance! Comments and answers welcomed... DM "He's dead, Haldemar!" -Talasar Ecbashur *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 10:02:00 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Parry, Disarm, And other fighters' options Ok, here we are for another episode of the "Rules Issues" saga. This time i'd like to focus on the different ways the fighters' options are treated. Let's consider one at a time: Smash: the fighter has -5 penalty on his roll to hit and if he hits he adds his Strength score to the damage. Right, but how do you exactly handle the Smash option with the weapon masteries? I mean, it was designed before they came out to increase the fighters' effectiveness, but now that they're allowed to do extra damage with masteries and that they've got high bonuses due to weapon masteries, the smash maneuver is almost automatic from a certain level and on. I know it depends all on how u view the smash attack, but IMO if it's all a question of "using strength instead of precision" why should the fighters use their weapon mastery to hit bonus? What do you think? Should they use only their Dex & magical bonuses of weapons when they smash or are allowed to use weapon masteries bonus too? (note: i'm not talking about the damage, but only of the "to hit bonus" here) Parry: ok, there are at least three different ways to handle this, so i'd like to know what is the one u normally adopt and why. Companion rule: when the fighter wants to parry, he simply stands in a defensive position and does nothing else for the whole round, gaining a -5 AC bonus for the whole round. DotE rule: when the character wants to parry, he must intercept the attacker's blow using his weapon. To do this, he simply rolls to hit the opponent AC and if he hits he has intercepted the blow (he can do it with a weapon or with the shield). Clearly, he can parry one attack for each attack he has got, and if he parries he cannot use the "attack" to attack then (hope u've understood here ;)) Master rule (this ones comes with the weapon mastery): to parry, the character must simply roll a Saving Throw vs. Death Ray. If he succeeds, he has interecepted the incoming attack without losing any of his attacks. He can only parry a given number of attacks per round as specified by his weapon mastery (this kind of parries don't increase by use of spells such as Haste IMO). So, according to the second and third option, one could parry even if he's not a fighter nor of name level (the DotE option allows it to any class, while the Master option allows parry with certain types of weapons depending on the weapon mastery). Only companion rules that the parry is a maneuver available to fighters of name level or higher only. What do you prefer/use and why? Disarm: this is one of the simplest and really gives me no problems, but i'll list anyway. To disarm one must roll to hit his opponent AC: if the blows hits, the attacker may call for a disarm option (the option is available only to name level fighters and to certain weapon masteries). The opponent who's been hit must then make a Dexterity check subtracting his Dex bonus (if any) and adding his opponent Dex bonus (if any) to the roll (the weapon mastery also gives other penalties according to the degree of the mastery -i also add a -2 penalty if the attacker is a name level fighter who can already disarm). If the roll succeeds, he's not disarmed, otherwise he looses the weapon that fumbles 1d4 meters away. Any problems with this? Dodge: ok, i personally think this rule is a bit silly and that my method is a bit more logical. All the rules in companion and DotE allow everyone to dodge an incoming attack (one can dodge missiles only if he has the Martial Arts: Defensive mode proficiency). To dodge, the character must declare it against an attack and he can dodge one attack for each "attack" he's got (i.e a 12th level fighter can dodge 2 attacks while a mage of same level only 1), losing his opportunity to attack or cast spells in the process. When he dodges, he simply adds a -4 bonus to his AC: if the attacker hits the new AC, the character's dodging attempt failed, that's all. This option can be allowed to name level fighters only or to everyone according to DotE. Well, this is how i handle the thing. Everybody can dodge, even normal humans or monsters: you need not be a specialist to try it. You can dodge a number of attacks per round equal your number of attacks PLUS you Dexterity bonus. If you choose to dodge however, you cannot attack nor cast spells, but you may move at your normal (not running) speed AND activate magical items. When you dodge, you simply make a Dexterity check with a penalty equal to the difference between the AC hit by the attacker and your effective AC. If the roll succeeds, you've dodged successfully, otherwise the blow landed normally. Example: Rolf is a 13th level fighter: he's got 2 attacks, a Dex of 14 points (+1 bonus) and an AC of -1. He's attacked by a powerful er.. golem. Rolf hasn't got a magical weapon to harm it, so he decides to dodge its attacks while retreating. The golem has two attacks and rolls to hit twice: he hits AC -1 and -5. Now, Rolf must must do two Dex checks (he can dodge up to three blows: 2 attacks + 1 bonus Dex): the first one without penalty (the golem hit exactly rolf's AC) and the second one with a -4 penalty. If the first roll is 14 or lower, he dodges the first attack. Likewise, if the second roll is 10 (14-4) or lower, he dodges the second attack too. What do you think? As usual, comments and answers are appreciated. DM "Who are you!!?" "I'm Ratman.." -Mrikitat just before slaughtering one of his victims *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 10:02:40 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Weapon Masteries Ok, i think this is the last of my rules thoughts for today: sorry if i annoyed you too much with "technical details" ;) Weapon masteries bonus and damage scores clearly reflect the fact that the more one learns how to fight with a certain kind of weapon the more he comes to know where and how to hit to maximize the damage inflicted. This is at least the way i see it. Now, following this reasoning, what would you do with a character that cannot see his enemy? I think i've read somewhere that in this case the weapon masteries are treated this way, but i'm not sure: - - the character cannot see the enemy (he's blind or it's dark): no bonus nor damage scores for weapon mastery used. His roll to hit is penalized by 4 points and he does normal (Base) damage + bonuses for magical weapon or strength. - - the character cannot see the enemy but he can hear him (he's blind or it's dark but he has the Blind fighting proficiency or Hear Noises skill): only the weapon mastery bonus applies and he hasn't got the -4 penalty. The damage inflicted is the base damage with that weapon. - - the character can see the opponent but he's deafened (silence spell or dumbness): the to hit bonus for weapon mastery is halved (loses balance). Do you think this sounds fair? Also, how do u treat characters that want to use a weapon they don't know how to use? I normally give em a -3 penalty to hit rolls and halve the basic damage.. Just my wonderings today. Note: it's not that these problems have occurred to me recently, but i have encountered them in the past and i want to know how to handle them in the future basing on the feedback you'll give me. DM "An old saying goes: 'I don't believe in the Immortals, but i'm afraid of them'. Well, i tell you: I do believe in Immortals, but the only one i'm afraid of is Gargantua..." -excerpt from an third degree held in the Darokin Police Central *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 10:03:30 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Kol and glantrian politics Andrew Morrow wrote: <> Well, since Kol has managed to kept his goblinoids confined inside the Great Crater without much trouble for the neighbouring regions (though Carlotina would question this point), it may be considered a Great Task done for Glantri govt. He is a wizard, though not of 9th level (only 5th level wokani), but maybe since he's a humanoid the Princes could have agreed on judging his magical level the maximum his race can attain... So in this case he COULD qualify. Beware: i am NOT defending Kol's position. I agree with you that he shouldn't have been made Prince, but i'm only trying to find plausible motives here.. <<2- How would he secure an Act of Enfeofment for the region? There arent even any Glantrian citizens there.>> Theoretically, since the Great Crater lies in what is still considered Glantri's soil (where Blackhill and Caurenze stood), then its denizens are inhabitants of Glantri too. And since they're capable of uttering words and giving their explicit assent to Kol's petition for a principality of his own, then he could have met the requirements for an Act of Enfeoffment. <<3- Four principalities have already been created since 1000 AC. The princes are likely very reluctant to create any more. Each new prince reduces the relative power of the others, both in the Council and in Parliment. Granting Kol a principality reduces their own power for very little return. He becomes a power onto himself (although a weak one) in Glantrian politics. Why would the Princes want such a thing?>> Right. Well, as we all know, to found a new principality one not only requires the Act of Enfeoffment but also a voting from the princes: i guess this time Synn's schemings have caused many of the princes to back Kol's petition. That is the main and only reason why i think Kol could have acquired a dominion in Glantri: Synn's influence over the council (though i doubt she had so much power in AC1012, after only 2 years inside te Council..) <> Much more logical, i agree.. but what should we do, then? <> Well, i don't think the political infighting has decreased that much, as u say, after all, each upgraded noble has been replaced by a lower one. True, some of them have died, but new ones have gained the free baronies and nobody said there haven't been new dominions founded in Glantri. So i think: yes, there can be new Barons in Glantri, and maybe we (the list) could define some of them together for AC 1016 almanac.. cause you know, for AC1015 Glantri will already be pretty busy with other things.. ;) DM "I'll be back!" Favourite Dying Villains' quote "XP!" Favourite Winning Characters' quote *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #53 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 13:20:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #54 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com Status: U mystara-digest Saturday, February 7 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 054 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - New (old?) rules Re: [MYSTARA] - Weapon Masteries Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Byzantium And Naval Tactics Re: [MYSTARA] - Weapon Masteries [MYSTARA] - New (old?) rules --> Ops! Re: [MYSTARA] - Weapon Masteries Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Byzantium And Naval Tactics Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Inmortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Byzantium And Naval Tactics Re: [MYSTARA] - Witches spells & powers Re: [MYSTARA] - Witches spells & powers [MYSTARA] - Comeliness Stat and House Rules (Was Witches spells & powers) Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Manifestation Forms Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 11:02:51 +0100 From: Kris Subject: [MYSTARA] - New (old?) rules These are some rules I found some years ago on a RPG magazine in Italy (Kaos); I have changed these rules fitting them with my game experience, and now I submit them to the list. Any comments? The 5 player's golden rules Don't cheat when the Dungeon Master look at you When you cheat raising your PF, don't exceed the maximum allowed When you want to bribe your Dungeon Master try with cakes If a neighbor cheats, let the Dungeon Master kindly know When you don't take part in a game session, your PC is in the forefront unarmed The 5 Dungeon Master's golden rules Cheat only when you throw dice behind the screen Throw always dice behind the screen Strictly punish any cheating player At first kill (or ridicule) the more unpleasant Then nevertheless kill (or ridicule) all of them Kris Kris@spm.it Cristiano.Perani@spm.it *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 7 Feb 1998 10:07:44 -0300 From: 3@giga.com.ar Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Weapon Masteries >Do you think this sounds fair? I think that it's sound fair. But in my case I don't give the characters the possibility of learn how to use the weapon until level 14. And in this level, if they want to learn they'll need to find a good master. >Also, how do u treat characters that want to use a weapon they don't know how to use? I normally give em a -3 penalty to hit rolls and halve the basic damage.. I use the books, not the Cyclopedia of Rules, (the red books for 1-3 levels, the blue for 4-14 level, the green book for 15-25 levels and the black books for 26-36 levels). And in this case the players can use some weapons in the red book and when they reach the 4th level they can use others. The problem here is this: what happens if they have one player in 4th level and other in 2nd level? The 2nd level player also will want to use the weapons of the 4th level. So I resolved it in this way: The player when he gain experience point he also lear about the fights and the weapons, so when he reach the 4th level he can use other weapons. But the players in 2nd level don't know how to use it, so they can't use it at all (no penalities). Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 08:47:46 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Byzantium And Naval Tactics In a message dated 98-02-06 12:35:35 EST, you write: << > <their own against Alphatia. Especially given national character.>> >I have to disagree with you here. If Alphatia commited herself to all out war, >then Thyatis would fall. But this is precisely what I meant by "character". Yes, if the Alphatians committed themselves...I mean, who could stand up to 1000 36th level MUs right? But they don't have the same spirit as the Thyatians. >> Once again I have to disagree. Though I'll admit that Thyatis may of had a more unified and serious war effort. Its national character played little into the conflict. If Thyatis had used this character, then it would have made a concerted offemsive against Alphatia itself. But no, Thincol was smart and limited the agressions to IoD and other oulying areas. As for the Grand Council IIRC the 1000 36th lvl mages were a last resort. In Alphatia's campaigns against Thyatis the Imperial Troops led the vanguard. IMO the Grand Council was "an ace card" to be used should the armies falter. In WotI the armies did not falter. Zandor called upon the Council to exact vengence on Glantri. And BTW the amassed wizards attack was a contributing factor to the Doomsday device and Alphatia's sinking. At least if one of the alternative Conclusions were used in case the PCs suceeded. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 09:36:58 EST From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Weapon Masteries << Now, following this reasoning, what would you do with a character that cannot see his enemy?>> I treat it normally, but add the (-4) penalty to hit and (-2) penalty for deafness. << Also, how do u treat characters that want to use a weapon they don't know how to use? I normally give em a -3 penalty to hit rolls and halve the basic damage..>> I treat it as "unskilled" and give the (-2) penalty to hit, and half damage. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 15:44:45 +0100 From: Kris Subject: [MYSTARA] - New (old?) rules --> Ops! - ---> When you cheat raising your PF, don't exceed the maximum allowed Pardon me! PF means Punti Ferita, the italian equivalent of HP - Hit Point Pardon me again. Kris *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 10:23:00 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Weapon Masteries On Sat, 7 Feb 1998, DM wrote: >- the character cannot see the enemy (he's blind or it's dark): no bonus nor damage scores for weapon mastery used. His roll to hit is penalized by 4 points and he does normal (Base) damage + bonuses for magical weapon or strength. I would say that weapon mastery bonuses should apply. Part of mastering a weapon is learning how to use the weapon effectively *regardless* of conditions. It includs gaining intuitive knowledge of where to expect somebody to be in a fight, even if you can't see the opponent. >- the character cannot see the enemy but he can hear him (he's blind or it's dark but he has the Blind fighting proficiency or Hear Noises skill): only the weapon mastery bonus applies and he hasn't got the -4 penalty. The damage inflicted is the base damage with that weapon. How is this any different from the preceding situation? >- the character can see the opponent but he's deafened (silence spell or dumbness): the to hit bonus for weapon mastery is halved (loses balance). Hearing and balance are not connected. I have episodes of tinnitis in which I can barely hear. Depending upon the level of white noise, I can be quite deaf, in addition to the tinnitis. My combat effectiveness doesn't decline, neither does my balance. The fact that the "ear" is a center of both does not mean that both are intimately connected, no more than loss of voice means that I can't breathe, even though both use my "throat" for doing it. Do you have the Cyclopedia? Aaron Allston has addressed many of the questions you had in another message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 11:16:57 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics In a message dated 98-02-04 14:20:51 EST, you write: << >The whole Byzantine/Rome aspect was discussed in the old AOL TSR Online >Forum for Mystara. Bruce Heard had some particular insight on it all (gee,I wonder >why :-)). Wow, really? Do you have a transcript?>> No. I wish I did. The format was message boards. Unfortunately TSR on AOL was halted. Wish I had saved the debates. Not only was Thyatis and Alphatia discussed but also most of Mystara. >IIRC Thyatis was more Rome due to the Senate. Alphatia was more Byzantine due >to the Asian/Middle Eastern influence Constantinople/Byzantium absorbed. This makes sense. By the way, a question I have had for a while: Just what color is copper anyway??? Do the Alphatians look like Asians? That is the way I picture them but minus the eyefolds.>> Well, I am color blind (seriously) so my perception is questionable. I pictured the copper skin of the Alphatians as being well tanned as in Copper Tone Suntan Lotion. Native Americans and Arabs come to mind. But given that Thyatians are really pale the tan aspect really is noticable. ><< When Thincol took over the empire was spurred to new life, and Alphatia by >a little irony had to wake up as well.>> >I disagree. IMO Alphatia never did wake up. They watched Thincol's reign but would not or could not get their stuff together to keep the Thincol Thyatis in >check. If they ever woke up, it was during WotI. Let me explain better...I see Alphatia as being in a constant decline almost from the moment they set foot on Mystara. Any society, in fact, that relies on slavery is going to find itself in decline. By "waking up" I meant...oh heck, I don't really know what I meant. I think I just wanted to express something real quick without going into detail...plus I am biased in favor of the Alphatians.>> Overall in decline, I'd say no. More likely just comfortable. The years of indulging in self interest and having the resources of the Empire at your call can do that. Magicaly speaking yes. The rate of magic users was on a steady decline. And still is. Still, 1 out of 5 is still high. And given that there are millions of Alphatians..... The slave issue I agree with. This may come as a surprise. I am a Southerner, South Carolina no less. But remember that Thyatis also utilizes slaves. And remember that Alphatia has begun to distance itself from slavery. <> I'll agree with Eriadna being a spark to Alphatia. She is rational enough to think things out. Yet she is Alphatian enough to hold the Empire together. After WotI it was Eriadna's reappearance and show of rage that gave cause for the Empire holding together. I see little love between Eriadna and Thincol. No chance of an affair as referred to in DotE. Too much bad blood. Plus there is a personality clash. <> Eriadna: "With that Thyatian mongrel?" Thincol: "With that uppity tramp" I don't think neither would go for it. And I don't think their respective Empires would either. Mundaners on IoD mixing blood is one thing. But such an affair is out of the question. >An interesting notion would be if Alphatia or Thyatis had been able to conquer >the other and assimilate the two empires together. It could have been a reversal of the history of the Roman Empire. Granted it would be interesting...leading me to some thought on a what-if/alternate reality series of games (what if the Radiance had been allowed to go on depleting magic, what if there was no Radiance, what if Alphatia won, what if Thyatis won, what if the war was fought and ended up destroying the world...?)>> True the possibilities abound. Someone either on the List or on TSR on AOL mentioned running Castle Amber and his PCs failing. As a result, no Glantri, no Radiance, and no d'Ambrevilles. Imagine those possibilities. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 11:32:56 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Byzantium And Naval Tactics What I am understanding from your message is that Alphatia had complete control over the council of 1000. I disagree with this. If they did then undoubtedly the entire world would be speaking Alphatian. There has to be a reason the empire never succeeded in taking control of the world, though there were times in their past when they tried. Both empires have the same arrogance but Alphatia has much more power. I don't think anyone would dispute this. Therefore I see the differing factor as national character. This is not to say Alphatians are lazy. They have their problems certainly. Any country that relies on slavery for labor is going to find itself degenerating. Alphatia is an empire in decline (though the decline has been for well over 2000 years with periods of reviving here and there) while Thyatis is an empire on the rise (though the rise has been for about 1000 years with periods of decline here and there). At 08:47 AM 2/7/98 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-02-06 12:35:35 EST, you write: ><< > <>their own against Alphatia. Especially given national character.>> >>I have to disagree with you here. If Alphatia commited herself to all out >war, >>then Thyatis would fall. >But this is precisely what I meant by "character". Yes, if the Alphatians committed themselves...I mean, who could stand up to 1000 36th level MUs right? But they don't have the same spirit as the Thyatians. >> >Once again I have to disagree. Though I'll admit that Thyatis may of had a more unified and serious war effort. Its national character played little into the conflict. If Thyatis had used this character, then it would have made a concerted offemsive against Alphatia itself. But no, Thincol was smart and limited the agressions to IoD and other oulying areas. As for the Grand Council IIRC the 1000 36th lvl mages were a last resort. In Alphatia's campaigns against Thyatis the Imperial Troops led the vanguard. IMO the Grand Council was "an ace card" to be used should the armies falter. In WotI the armies did not falter. Zandor called upon the Council to exact vengence on Glantri. And BTW the amassed wizards attack was a contributing factor to the Doomsday device and Alphatia's sinking. At least if one of the alternative Conclusions were used in case the PCs suceeded. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 11:47:24 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics >The slave issue I agree with. This may come as a surprise. I am a Southerner, South Carolina no less. But remember that Thyatis also utilizes slaves. And remember that Alphatia has begun to distance itself from slavery. I am also a Southerner. I was not referring so much to our own history as general history. Many people do not seem to realize that slavery covered the world at one time. The interesting thing that I note, it seems to me that every nation that could be said to have gone through a period of degeneration, practiced slavery especially toward the end. I was unaware of the Alphatians giving up on slavery. If they did it had to be toward the very end because the practice was going on strong in AC1000. You pointed out that Thyatis also practiced slavery. This is true. But slavery in Thyatis is a class from which one can rise once one earns enough money to buy his way out. This is admittedly a difficult enterprise but possible nonetheless. Also there are laws that protect slaves from certain abuses in Thyatis. Alphatia has no such laws except in terms of destruction of property. Slavery is a much nastier system in Alphatia and an individual who finds himself a slave has little to no hope of ever not being a slave. This is why I see the system in Alphatia as being even more degenerate than the one in Thyatis. Though if Thyatis finds itself relying on slavery more and more as time goes by, then IMC that empire will also start to decline. This is a situation in which my players will have a chance of affecting the outcome directly if they choose to take the steps. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 09:01:54 -0800 (PST) From: keir cliff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics ><passionate side of these two given in Talons of Night.>> >Eriadna: "With that Thyatian mongrel?" >Thincol: "With that uppity tramp" >I don't think neither would go for it. And I don't think their respective >Empires would either. Mundaners on IoD mixing blood is one thing. But such an>affair is out of the question. I agree that neither would enter into a relationship consciencely, but it makes for an interesting idea. Thinicol's problem, like many men in positions of power, is that his ' Droit de signor ' has a life of it's own. Interestingly, Eriadna isn't exactly innocent, which is why in my campaign, in her youth Edrianda went traveling, and eventually went through Norworld and ended up bedding a ' Thrainkell Torson ', later to become Thinicol I. Neither know that it was the other. This is just a trump card I have for my players to find out. I haven"t read M5: Talons of the night, but I'm quite curious to find out what happens in it. How is this ' passionate ' side explored, and how can I use it to my advantage ? _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 12:01:52 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wrath of the Inmortals In a message dated 98-02-05 19:01:41 EST, URND@MARISTC.MARIST.EDU writes: >The subsequent magical overload >struck Alphatia (since the Nucleus was still aimed that way) destroying it so totally that it sunk into the ocean (ala Atlantis). The Immortals preserved Alphatia by transporting most of the survivors to an Alphatia-shaped floating continent in the HW. A minor nit -- there were no survivors of the sinking of Alphatia in the Hollow World -- those who survived the sinking did so be teleporting elsewhere in the Known World, where they continued to live (case in point: Zandor). In the Hollow World, the Immortalshad to bring the Alphatians back to life. They started by bringing Eriadna back, then brought back everyone she remembered, then everyone they remembered, and so on. Several isolated communities were lost this way, but 90+% of the Alphatians were brought back from somebody's memories. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 09:15:11 -0800 (PST) From: keir cliff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones - ---bjm10@cornell.edu wrote: >On Fri, 6 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: >><< And we're still playing them, right? Let's try an Old >>Ones campaign. >> >>And what comes next? The Undescriptables? >"...and beyond the Old Ones, could there possibly be One, who watches and >waits?" Actually, beyond the old ones are ' the very old ones ' , a group of wise individuals who sit huddled in a group, pronanciating such peals of wisdom as... " pardon " " you what " " cup of tea deary " " it wasn't like this in my day " Seriously though, should a PC survive through mortality, immortality, mortality, immortality, being an old one, mortality, immortality, mortality, immortality, and being an old one again, the PC should just return to mortality. This may sound silly, but it is infact quite zen. The PC is completing the circle of life and proving that no one person is more powerful than another, hence beyond the most powerful beings in the universe are mortals, because it is them who deal with the every day functions ( like living ) and make the universe what it is. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 12:29:10 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Byzantium And Naval Tactics In a message dated 98-02-07 11:46:51 EST, you write: << What I am understanding from your message is that Alphatia had complete control over the council of 1000. I disagree with this. If they did then undoubtedly the entire world would be speaking Alphatian. There has to be a reason the empire never succeeded in taking control of the world, though there were times in their past when they tried. Both empires have the same arrogance but Alphatia has much more power. I don't think anyone would dispute this. Therefore I see the differing factor as national character. This is not to say Alphatians are lazy. They have their problems certainly. Any country that relies on slavery for labor is going to find itself degenerating. Alphatia is an empire in decline (though the decline has been for well over 2000 years with periods of reviving here and there) while Thyatis is an empire on the rise (though the rise has been for about 1000 years with periods of decline here and there). >> Not full control. But the Emperor was the Emperor. His/her will was law. As such, the Council was bound to follow it. However, I feel that the Emperor would be reluctant to involve the Council. The repurcussions could come back to haunt him/her. example- Emperor Tylion. The Council supports the Emperor. And vice versa. Remember the balance of power aspect. As for decline, I have to disagree. More like stagnant. Before WotI there was little need to strive for anything. The Mages were happy with their own goals. The commoners were happy. Tribute from the flowed in from the kingdoms. WotI was a wake up call. And Alphatia did wake up. The Imperial Armies crushed Thyatis and were ready to assault Glantri. Thyatis may be currently on the rise. But given the reverses it experienced in WotI just maintaining its borders is progress. Slave revolts, bad grain, bruised national pride, and those ever increasing taxes are taking a toll. Aye what a mess Thincol laid in Eusebius's lap. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 12:32:03 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Witches spells & powers In a message dated 98-02-07 04:14:32 EST, dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it writes: >Sidenote 2: i think it would be better if the Witches reduced their Charisma >AND Comeliness scores (if used), because hunchback and croaking voice affect >comeliness more than charisma. Thus i'd say they should subtract 1 point from Charisma and 2 from Comeliness (min 3) for each circle they advance! Comeliness? That is a stat that was added in _Unearthed Arcana_ and dropped in 2nd edition AD&D. I am really surprised that anyone would try to apply 1st edition rules to Mystara -- to begin with, the level limits are totally incompatible. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 12:32:00 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Witches spells & powers In a message dated 98-02-07 04:14:32 EST, dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it writes: >First of all, the third circle power "Witches' Curse" says that the witch >can affect a number of levels or HD equal to her level, and that if only a single person is to be affected, then his family will be cursed for as many generations as the witch has levels. Now given this fact and since the curse >can be dispelled only with a Wish, do you think the victim is (are) entitled >a Saving throw against spells or not? The description of the power doesn't mention a ST.. >From the way such things are depicted in traditional literature, I would suggest that the saving throw be based on the appropriateness of the curse. An extremely suitable curse for the victim's actions might allow no saving throw, while an unfair and overpowered curse might fail automatically. For those that are somewhere in between, allow the normal chance of success (remember that all Secret Craft abilities have a percentage chance of success -- none are a sure thing) along with a saving throw. Some of the Ravenloft products have good guidelines for the appropriateness of curses. >Second thing: "witches use a form of chaotic magic affecting Charisma. Upon ending studies at each circle, witches lose 2 points of Cha (to a minimum of >3)." (end quote) Now, two questions: first of all, does this mean that they lose 2 CHA points for each power they study or for each circle they advance (for a total of 8 powers and 5 circles)? Also, supposing they only loose 2 points of CHA for each circle they advance, why has Carnelia de Belcadiz (High Mistress of Witchcraft) a Charisma score of 13? Theoretically, she would have lost 5*2=10 points of Charisma, thus reducing her CHA to 3 (i don't believe she had 23 points of CHA!).. Also, consider these other Witches in GAZ3: I noticed that problem too -- most of the NPC witches have charisma scores that are a bit on the high side given that rule. Maybe we should reserve the charisma loss for fumbles (rolls of 00) when using Witch abilities -- then we need only conclude that the NPC Witches of Glantri have just been very lucky. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 10:13:12 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Comeliness Stat and House Rules (Was Witches spells & powers) At 12:32 PM 2/7/98 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-02-07 04:14:32 EST, dalmonte@dsc.unibo.it writes: >>Sidenote 2: i think it would be better if the Witches reduced their Charisma >>AND Comeliness scores (if used), >>[...] >Comeliness? That is a stat that was added in _Unearthed Arcana_ and dropped in 2nd edition AD&D. I am really surprised that anyone would try to apply 1st edition rules to Mystara -- to begin with, the level limits are totally incompatible. Well I, for one, rather like the Comeliness Stat. Even though I nominally play OD&D, I use that old Unearthed Arcana stat anyway (House Rules, doncha know). IMHO, having a separate designation for 'beauty' (Comeliness) from 'personal magnetism' (Charisma) makes a lot of sense. Hitler wasn't very Comely but he was incredibly Charismatic. On the other hand, Pamala Anderson is incredibly Comely but I wouldn't say she's all that Charismatic - -- she probably couldn't sway hundreds of thousands of people to commit terrible attrocities in the name of purity just by telling them to. So, even though Comliness wasn't even really 1st Edition AD&D (Unearthed Arcana being a later suplement of rules which were even more optional than the original "optional" rules) I've always included the use of that Stat, even in OD&D, because of what it adds to the flavour of my campaigns. House Rules, of course, are what differentiate different DM's from one another. ;-) I figure, it doesn't matter where a rule came from (1st Ed AD&D, 2nd Ed AD&D, GURPS, etc.) if it fits into your game and provides for more fun for all involved, Go for it! Jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 12:55:17 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones >Seriously though, should a PC survive through mortality, immortality, mortality, immortality, being an old one, mortality, immortality, mortality, immortality, and being an old one again, the PC should just return to mortality. This may sound silly, but it is infact quite zen. The PC is completing the circle of life and proving that no one person is more powerful than another, hence beyond the most powerful beings in the universe are mortals, because it is them who deal with the every day functions ( like living ) and make the universe what it is. On the contrary, if they survive through all this the real world players should be well into their own immortality! I have never had a group of players actually get through their first term of immortality. There is just too much time involved. In the future I look forward to running another Immortal level campaign though. I know it is going to be in the far future... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 13:00:04 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Manifestation Forms In a message dated 98-02-06 19:13:42 EST, ANDREW.THEISEN@ASU.Edu writes: >How does this relate to the bodies they take, then? I'm not exactly sure >how to phrase the concept I'm trying to relate, or even if there is a question here (rather than a philosophical comment), but what would be the advantage in taking, say, the form of a "Wizened Old Man"- like Odin, for instance- if the Immortals are not just going to see the three dimensional body, but instead some other aspect that mortal eyes can't relate to? Why would they take certain physical forms for the sake of interaction with one another, when the appearance of that form will be different for them than it is for mortals? I see what you are getting at, but I suspect that the distinction is not all that important. Remember, mortals are four-dimensional too but can only perceive three dimensions -- so what an Immortal sees when he looks at a mortal is different from what a mortal sees. Thus, a Manifestation form that looks like a "wizened old man" could look like what an Immortal sees when he looks at a real "wizened old man" -- or perhaps that fourth dimension gives details that clearly distinguish any Immortal from a mortal. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 12:51:02 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics In a message dated 98-02-07 12:03:28 EST, you write: << >The slave issue I agree with. This may come as a surprise. I am a Southerner, >South Carolina no less. But remember that Thyatis also utilizes slaves. And remember that Alphatia has begun to distance itself from slavery. I am also a Southerner. I was not referring so much to our own history as general history. Many people do not seem to realize that slavery covered the world at one time. The interesting thing that I note, it seems to me that every nation that could be said to have gone through a period of degeneration, practiced slavery especially toward the end.>> Well salute!! My Johny Reb brethren. I was merely trying to dispel the "a southerner is a red neck" persona and is an active member of the Ku Klux Klan. The KKK aspect amuses me as I am Catholic. But yes, most if not all cultures used slavery. IMO slavery eventually eliminates itself. If the American War Between the States hadn't occurred, slavery in the South would have been gone by the early 1900s. <> Those practices happen after WotI. The suicide instead of enslavement action of Jafilia gives cause to Empress Eriadna to a change of attitude in slavery. Heck she names the new Imperial Seat after her. Then there is the freeing of the Jennite Slaves after Floating Ar is subdued by Commander Broderick. <> But the DotE Gaz also says slaves are cheap in Thyatis. It also says that a slave's life is hard. And given the predictament as portrayed in DDA1 Arena of Thyatis becoming a slave is pretty easy. And as for Alphatia, a slave can gain freedom. A slave child capable of spellcasting could easily rise in rank. And wasn't Gen. Torenal a slave as a boy? He did pretty good. The difference is that Thyatis has a set of laws set up to allow for a slave to buy his freedom. But then again, Thyatis is an efficient crazy Empire. As such, laws would be in place for almost anything. The letter of the law (enforcement) is questionable. <> Addressed above. Torenal. Alphatian slaves can expect freedom if their master grants it. But even in Thyatis a slave buying his freedom is subject to question. The owner only has to raise the appraisal value of a slave to buy time. <> I like it. I'd like to see how a group of PCs can change an Empire. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #54 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 23:17:20 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #55 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Saturday, February 7 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 055 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Witches spells & powers Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics [MYSTARA] - AD&D to D&D Creatures (Need Conversion Help) [MYSTARA] - AD&D to D&D Magic (Need Conversion Help) Re: [MYSTARA] - Parry, Disarm, And other fighters' options [MYSTARA] - Sentient Races on Mystara [LONG] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 12:52:50 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics At 09:01 AM 2/7/98 -0800, you wrote: >><of the >>passionate side of these two given in Talons of Night.>> >>Eriadna: "With that Thyatian mongrel?" Thincol: "With that uppity tramp" >>I don't think neither would go for it. And I don't think their >respective >>Empires would either. Mundaners on IoD mixing blood is one thing. >But such an >>affair is out of the question. >I agree that neither would enter into a relationship consciencely, but it makes for an interesting idea. >Thinicol's problem, like many men in positions of power, is that his ' Droit de signor ' has a life of it's own. Interestingly, Eriadna isn't exactly innocent, which is why in my campaign, in her youth Edrianda went traveling, and eventually went through Norworld and ended up bedding a ' Thrainkell Torson ', later to become Thinicol I. Neither know that it was the other. This is just a trump card I have for my players to find out. >I haven"t read M5: Talons of the night, but I'm quite curious to find out what happens in it. How is this ' passionate ' side explored, and how can I use it to my advantage ? Actually it might work quite well in your campaign. The two emperors are kidnapped and taken to another world where time flows much faster. The heroes, in travelling to this other world (which btw is a replica of IOD) discover that the two rulers have been dead for centuries. Apparently, though distrustful of each other at first, the two eventually came to love and founded a great empire called Thyphatia. During the first few years of their stay on this world they realized that help might not arrive in time, so they put aside some flesh for clones. The party takes the flesh back to Mystara where the clones are grown. But the flesh was taken at a time when the two rulers merely found each other "interesting" rather than objects of desire. Like I said before, it was bit corny...but I liked it. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 13:30:22 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones << "...and beyond the Old Ones, could there possibly be One, who watches and waits?" >> Nay, this would be too early. Before the REALLY GREAT ONE AND ONLY comes, there have to be the players and then the DM... :-) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 13:30:27 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) << Full of religious references for a mere game, eh? Try loosening that rod up your back once in a while. >> And you are a flamer, right? Please try not to be so serious! I tried to translate a phrase into English (you might have noticed that this is not my native language). I'm even not sure that I've understood your e-mail correct. Jamuga Khan "The Mighty Khan orders you to flame this miserable wretch until he beseeches for grace." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 13:03:53 -0800 (PST) From: keir cliff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones I totaly agree that the chances of actually reaching a level beyond that of an Old one is immposible, hence the reason I listed the stages they would have to go through in the first place! I've had an Immortal try to become an Old one, but this was a PC who had been pregenerated, and who was killed by a group of clerics belonging to a rival. The whole argument is academic, and I was just philosophising on a possibility. By the way, thanks for the info on M5 (RE: Naval tactics ), it was well apreciated. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 12:38:38 -0800 (PST) From: keir cliff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes >Now it seems to me that Mystara should break this mold somewhat. I like >the idea of the elves every now and then referring enigmatically to "Lost Evergrun over the sea", but this does not have to mean that every >elven nation is in decline. In fact, I see their civilization as being >no more in decline than any of the relatively young human and dwarven nations that have arisen out of the ashes of dead Blackmoor. It seems to me that with recent events, we could steer the Elves towards a new age. I'm referring to the fact that there are at least four major Elven cultures in the world of Mystara. Ex-Alfheim, Rafielton, The sacred city ( Aengmor/Oenkmar ) and the Schattenalfheims, all of whom have there own distinct cultures, and the potential to share and learn from each other. In one of my campaigns, the Alfheim Elves have joined forces with the Elves of Raifielton to battle against the Shadow Elf followers of Azanteotl. This unholy alliance has been cemented by the union of Tanadaleyo and her Alfheim counterpart, Doriath. The alliance is extreamly fragile and driven only by a desire to survive the hordes of evil. The rest of the world has turned a blind eye to the situation in the broken lands, considering it to be ' just those pesky Elves '. At the moment the Alliance are making a last ditch stand , and were tottering on the brink of defeat when reinforcements arrived from Rockhome ( If there's one thing a Dwarf hates more than an Elf, it's a Shadow Elf ). The problem is I'm not entirely sure how to end it all ( any suggestions ? ), I've thought of having Thar and Psa'gh use this as an opportunity to recapture the broken lands and join in the fray. At the end, the Alliance will last beyond the war, and the Elves will set about repairing the damage wrought on the forest of Canolbarth exspecialy the anti-magic zone which is spreading. It is possible a splinter group of the Alfheim Avengers will begin to engage in terrorist activities, like the RW IRA. Whatever the outcome, it is preferable to the destruction of the Elven race, which would mean the loss of a fascinating culture and would be a sad day. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 15:08:04 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Witches spells & powers On Sat, 7 Feb 1998, DM wrote: >Clearly, Carmina would have lost at least 4 points of Cha, and Isabella and Szasza at least 6, but they have really high Charisma scores! How can this be? I know there's another power of the witches that increases the Charisma called "Witches' Charm" (second circle), but it lasts only for 1 turn per level of the witch and affects only those within 300' of the witch, so it's not the cause of the problem. Maybe somebody forgot something when writing down those scores? How's the thing handled in G:KoM? (though i doubt it wil be any useful as a source..) This is something I noted way back when Gaz3 first came out, and I figure it must have just been something done separately from the NPCs. Bruce may have just forgotten or something. I don't know. As for how G:KoM handles it? They ignore the whole "lose CHA" bit. Doesn't even mention anything about it. At all. Also, I'd say Gilles Grenier was a special case, as he never attended the Great School of Magic, and was a noted "witch" back on Laterre. I wouldn't consider him to operate under the same rules, necessarily. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 17:47:28 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics << I was unaware of the Alphatians giving up on slavery. If they did it had to be toward the very end because the practice was going on strong in AC1000. >> In the war for Esterhold there were the slave-holding Esterholdians on the one side and the refugees, who despite this, on the other. Jamuga Khan "No man, even the mightiest khan, has the right to stand between a man and the open sky. If he doesn't like this man, there's always the possibility to kill the man, but slavery is immoral." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 14:58:38 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [MYSTARA] - AD&D to D&D Creatures (Need Conversion Help) Heya. I've just recently been trying to adapt the U1 to U3 AD&D modules for use in my (O)D&D game. (I downloaded these modules from the AD&D "Out Of Print" web page net). The basic premis of this Module series fits in well with my future plans for the PC's, but I'm facing a problem of not currently having access to any AD&D resources. This is makeing it occationally difficult for me to convert the encounters and some of the treasures over. So, I thought I'd send this note to the list in the hopes that one or more of you could help me by providing some information on a few of the AD&D races and monsters mentioned in those Modules. What I'm looking for is their stats and a general description (perhaps copied or summarized out of the appropriate AD&D manual). I want to replace as many of them as I can with official D&D creatures so if you have any suggestions in that direction it would also be appreciated. The problem lies in the fact that I often don't have a clue about what the creature I'm looking for might be close to! Note that I own PC3, so the underwater races hopefully won't be too much of a problem. I also own The Creature Catalog and the Cyclopedia so I have access to all of that "standard" D&D creature information. There's really no need to send this clutter to the list, unless you have something to say that you really think the whole list would be interested in hearing. So you can send any comments directly to me at strawberry@jamm.com. - ------------------ List of Creatures: - ------------------ 1. Sahuagin I know they're sort of shark-kin'ish, but that's about it 2. Koalinth I know only that they are an underwater race 3. Locathah Ditto about being an underwater race 4. Bullywugs I know only that they are a race that lives in swamps 5. Amphisbaena Some creature that is small enough to live inside an alter and that could also be trained by a Lizard Man shaman to guard said alter 6. Oriental Dragon The listing is for a 'young adult' and mentions something about a 'water fire attack'. I'm sure I could muddle something up, but I'd be interested in knowing more about the 'real thing' 7. Pseudo Dragon I expect a Pocket Dragon would be close enough. Only if that's WAY off, do I need more info. :-) 8. Thork I have no idea. The listing says they have a Special Attack whereing The can Squirt Boiling Water 9. Babblers Again, I have no idea. However, Lizardmen can apparently smell these from a distance and are particularly afraid of dealing with them. They also have a SA of Backstab as a LV4 thief. 10.Rot Grubs Okay, I know, roughly, what these are. However, as there isn't anything remotely like them in any Offical D&D creature listing I could really use a good description of them. 11.Ixitxachitl I have absolutely no idea. - ---------- Okay, that's the list. Hopefully some of you can give me some help :-) Jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 14:58:01 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [MYSTARA] - AD&D to D&D Magic (Need Conversion Help) Heya. Same basic problem as in my previous message regarding Creature conversion: I'm trying to adapt the U1 to U3 AD&D modules for use in my (O)D&D game without proper access to AD&D Resources). This note lists some of the Magic Spells and/or items for which I know little about their effects in AD&D. Hopefully I can get some information from some of you in this area as well. For spells, I'd like to know their Range, Duration and Area of Effect, plus a description of what they do, exactly. (For a few spells, like Magic Mouth, I have a rough idea of how they work, but getting more detailed information would be very useful) For Magical Items that are mentioned, any information at all would be useful. (As an aside, I'm not sure I remember the lengths of segments, rounds and turns in AD&D, so if someone could indicate that information as well it would be extremely useful) Again, there's really no need to send this clutter to the list, unless you have something to say that you really think the whole list would be interested in hearing. So you can send any comments directly to me at strawberry@jamm.com.- -------------- List of Magic: - -------------- 1. 1st Level Magic User and Illusionist Spells: Affect Normal Fires Colour Spray Detect Illusion Erase Find Familiar Friends Hypnotism Mending Message Spider Climb Unseen Servant Wall of Fog 2. 2nd Level Magic User and Illusionist Spells: Fools Gold Magic Mouth Strength 3. Unkown Level Magic User Spells: Gust of Wind 4. 1st Level Clerical Spells: Bless/Curse Command 5. 2nd Level Clerical Spells: Chant Prevent Charm Spiritual Hammer 6. 3nd Level Clerical Spells: Cause Blindness Glyph of Warding Bestow Curse (what's the difference b/t this and 1st level 'Curse'?) 7. Miscellaneous Magical Items: Staff of the Python Pearl of Wisdom Ring of Free Action Ring of Swimming Periapt of Proof Against Poison +3 Cloak of the Manta Ray Bead of Summons (modules says info for this is on DMG p151) Conch Shell Horn of the Tritons 8. Intelligent Magic Sword I'd like to know what the following details mean/do in AD&D terms: * INT of 12 * 'semi-empathy' * EGO of 3 * Personality Score of 15 9. Contact Poison Okay, this isn't really magic, but I need to know about this :-). The description says it is "insinuative type B". I'd like to know what that means, and also what "type A" would be as this application degrades to that level after initial contact since half of the substance gets wipped off/absorbed when handled. 10.Ultravison Okay, its been a *long* while since I played AD&D, but I have no idea what this is! Infravision I know, but what the heck is Ultravision? - ---------- Okay, that's the list. Hopefully some of you can give me some help with this request as well. :-) Jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 19:24:31 EST From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Parry, Disarm, And other fighters' options << but IMO if it's all a question of "using strength instead of precision" why should the fighters use their weapon mastery to hit bonus?>> Because...if a charecter with a mace tried to smash an opponent for the first time, he shouldn't be as likely to hit as someone that's level 20 and a grandmaster with it. Of course that's looking at it from both extremes, but it still shows that mastery is about how experienced with a weapon you are. After more mastery, you feel more comfortable and confident with the weapon, so i do think the mastery should be added. <> Well, i don't really go by any of those three. I give the player the (-4) bonus to AC, and they have to be 9th level warrior. i don't like putting hundreds of dice rolls in the middle of battle. <> Nope, i do the same, but once in a while i allow a natural 20 to disarm too. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 20:15:39 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: [MYSTARA] - Sentient Races on Mystara [LONG] Oy vey. This is a very, very, very long project which I started some time ago, got only about a third of the way done with, and then let sit for a long time. Rather than trying to complete the rest of this bruiser myself right now (not possible) I thought I would post the sizable portion that I already have done and see what reactions and/or sympathy I can get. Enjoy! m@2 To whichever Mystarans it may concern: It occurs to me that one of the problems with the transition to AD&D for Mystara (for those of us who accept it) is the confusion surrounding OD&D monsters versus AD&D monsters. The Mystara MC appendix makes matters worse instead of better; it seems to have been written mostly from a few of the old modules without ANY reference to the GAZ series. Entirely new monsters are given there with no context for placing them in various settings, and old ones are completely ignored or misused. Furthermore, the random encounter tables in the back are haphazard and generic. While I am not yet up to the task of a comprehensive list of EVERY monster species on Mystara, for purposes of character creation and campaign development I have compiled a list of all the Sentient races, sentient being defined as any monster with at least low intelligence which has free will, is not undead, and is capable of linguistic communication and/or complex social interaction. I have tried to include both all the monsters present in the GAZ series and modules and all the new ones from the MC appendix. In addition, I have included brief notes on all these monsters, plus a few AD&D monsters that I have thought it was appropriate from time to time to add to Mystara, with respect to culture, location, and viability as player characters. I would really really appreciate any additions/subtractions/complaints/criticisms or comments that any of you might have. Aarakocra: These are not mentioned in any Mystara source, though they are quite similar to the Faenare of Flying Serraine. IMC they are related species, and the Aarakocra are found commonly in the Western mountains of Brun, though they are rare elsewhere. Actaeon: These are an underused monster from OD&D. Probably "created" as a guardian race by immortals (perhaps Djaea, or Zirchev), these Elk Centaurs live only in deep temperate forests ... the northern taiga of Brun, and *maybe* the southern portions of Vulcania, the Canolbarth, or perhaps the Hollow World. They should not be found in areas without large expanses of forest nor in settled areas. Annis: I don't have my AD&D monster books with me (other than the mystara appendix); can some attentive person please tell me what this monster is? I have the feeling it is sentient but don't remember it. Aranea: The origin of the spider-people is hotly contested, with M5 saying that they came to Mystara through a gate under the Isle of Dawn and the RS books saying they evolved in caverns under the SC. They are also found in Yavdlom and on the Thanegioth Islands, and once built temples in the Sea of Dread region (XSOLO). My own humble theory is that the Aranea's complex origins are indicative of time and planar travel, and that they have probably been far more important in Mystara's history than most scholars realize, perhaps even as far back as Carnifex times (spiders are after all a very old life form). Baldandar: This is essentially another variation on the Doppleganger and/or the Rakshasa; owing to its appearance I would guess it is alien to Mystara, or perhaps from deep underground. Since Baldandar are loners and can appear as any race, they should be widespread and found in any location, but extremeley rarely. Anybody wanna give me a guess as to where these guys came from? Bargda: This is another new and seemingly unnecessary monster. However, as true Minotaurs are debatably not found on (external) Mystara, this could be the "M-equivalent"; IMC they dwell mostly underground but can also be found in tropical, mountainous terrain including Izonda, the Tangor peninsula, and parts of Minaea. Beastman: The Beastmen from whom all Mystaran goblinoids are descended are not covered under AD&D rules; PWA3 says that they should be equivalent to the AD&D Mongrelman. However, their range of attributes should be even greater than the Mongrelman's, since the HW boxed set describes Beastmen as big as trolls and as small as kobolds, with all the other traits as random as size. Beastmen, AFAIK, exist only in the HW. Beaver: Okay, so it may be a stretch to call beavers sentient. But if ever there was a planet likely to have a civilization populated by intelligent beavers, wouldn't Mystara be it? Any ideas? (since writing this, I have noticed the Mugumba in CoM, who are a kind of primitive beaver-men who live on Thanegia Island. I guess I musta spoke too soon!) Beholder: The Beholder has been known to exist on Mystara for some time, but has never seemed to have much influence on the world as an intelligent being. My guess is that Beholders are still somewhat new and are extremely rare on Mystara, and many are still building up knowledge and political power; someday they may be a significant force in human events, as they are on Faerun. Beholder-kin of the various sorts are apparently unknown on Mystara, except for the aquatic beholder (eye of the deep), which is mentioned in the MMCA; possibly there might be a handful of these wandering around the sea of dread; maybe they are allies of the devilfish who live there. Note that beholders may very well have something to do with the cult of Arik of the One Hundred Eyes, one of the few Outer Beings whose name is known on Mystara in the present day. Bhut: This monster, since officially neither undead nor lycanthrope, is apparently a viable sentient race. They are native to Sind and AFAIK are not found other than around that area of Mystara; they have appeared in Darokin, the Black Mountains, and (IMC) on Thanegia. They do not seem to have a culture of their own, so much as they simply parasitize Sindian human settlements. There are some bands who have actively cooperated with Hosadus in recent history. Blink Dog: These are intelligent enough to be included as a "race" here, though they do not use tools of any sort or have much influence on the world; they appear to be found commonly in the Savannah lands at the northern end of the Serpent Peninsula, and possibly on the Meghala Kimata plains, but not elsewhere on Mystara. IMC Baron Marcus Robert Dunn of Eisenfurt, a vassal of King Stefan Karameikos, has learned to communicate with and train blink dogs for use in big game hunting (especially displacer beasts!); his blink dogs come from the area near Tyjaret, where he managed to tame wild ones for the first time. Bloodseeker: This is an extraplanar race of my own devising, similar to planetars in appearance and strength but chaotic evil in alignment and very warlike. IMC a small handful were summoned during the last war by an Alphatian wizard to serve as a secret weapon ... the wizard was killed in battle and the bloodseekers stayed for good. Vanya has shown great interest in them. Boobrie: I don't remember but I think that this is a type of sentient storklike creature. IIRC it may be similar or related to the Eblis, which I had planned to put in the Yalu river delta as a strange counterpart to the Giff; anyway MMCA says Boobries exist on Mystara in marshy areas; I would guess the Malpheggi would be a good place for them. Any ideas? Brain Collector (Neh-Thalggu): These alien critters seem to have a particular interest in Mystara, as I know of nowhere else in the Prime Material Plane where they are found. AFAIK, though, there are only two sightings that can actually be confirmed: The Brain collector met by adventurers investigating Chateau d'Ambreville after the first disappearance of Prince Etienne (x2), and one encountered by Haldemar of Haaken along the savage coast (Dragon Magazine #?, anybody know?). Due to its association with the Cthulhu mythos (through CAS and Averoigne), it is likely that this monster is from the dimension of the Old Ones, the vortex from whence spectral hounds and blackballs come. Either that, or it is from the Dimension of Nightmares (if these two places are not connected or even the same). Brownie: There is no canon evidence that I know of which would indicate that any brownies exist on Mystara. IMC they are rare but exist in the forests of Dunadale/Westrourke and occasionally are found in the Canolbarth and other forests of Brun. Bruteman: These Mystaran equivalents of Neanderthals exist only in the Hollow World. However, it is possible that isolated communities of cavemen still exist on surface Mystara, and I think there are likely modules that refer to them. Perhaps X1, anybody know? Bugbear: These are one of the major humanoid races, descended from Beastmen. They are commonly found in either rough terrain or forests, across most parts of Brun, on the Isle of Dawn, on the Thanegioth Islands (as servants of the Aranea), in the southern part of Skothar, and possibly in the hollow world. They seem not to be found in extremely hot or extremely cold areas. They also are found deep underground. IMC they are the only humanoid race to ally with the otherworldly Drow who live at the southern end of the Isle of Dawn. Bugbears seem to exist as clans or mercenary bands amongst larger humanoid groups or in the service of various sentient monsters; I know of no independent Bugbear society, with the possible exception of a tribe west of Luln on the old Expert Rules map which has long since been driven away or wiped out by adventurers. Bullywug: This is not a canon monster on Mystara. IMC two isolated communities exist, one in the Hagvar/Tukluk Islands in the HW, the other in the delta of the Yalu river in western Brun. Perhaps they were once a more numerous race, descendants of the bizarre experiments of the Order of the Frog (DA2) in Blackmoorian times; then they were probably almost all killed by the climate changes surrounding the fall of Blackmoor. (Late addition: I am about to run the old Greyhawk module I1, Dwellers of the Forbidden City, adapted to Mystara, in my 977 AC Thanegioth Islands Campaign. I am thinking about leaving in the bullywugs from the published module [who worship a Pan Lung as a god] and making these also survivors of the Frog Folk). Carnifex: These sentient dinosaurs are all trapped in a demi-plane somewhere, though (IIRC) they were originally prominent on Mystara. I wonder what relationship they bear to the Immortal Ka, who was once a dinosaur? Anyone? (Damn, I wrote this a long time ago originally, before I had read all the web-based quasi-canon material on the Carnifex, Y'hog, and the Serpentine empire. This will bear significant expansion I am sure). Centaur: Centaurs should be relatively common on Mystara; they are known to be found in all the major temperate forests of Brun, as well as in Alphatia,on the Isle of Dawn, in the Hollow World, and in northern Davania. They live in small bands and do not have great numbers; occasionally one might enter human or demi-human society and develop some importance as a personage. Chevall: These are more rare than centaurs, but should be found in many of the same places, especially the forests of Karameikos and Alfheim (pre-Aengmor); I do not think they are found anywhere but Brun however. Couatl: This feathered servant of the immortals is associated with the Oltec culture, and is found only in the forests of the Atruaghin clans and in the Hollow World. I don't have a source on that, so can someone check me on that? Crabman: Not a canon Mystara monster. I have one group which lives on the Hagvar/Tukluk islands. From old Fiend Folio.Crone of Chaos: This monster from B8? has never been used anywhere else that I know of; apparently they are associated with dark forces more powerful than themselves. IMC they are extremely rare but are used as agents/messengers by entropic immortals, such as those who destroyed Tuma. More commonly, they are just predatory parasites who live around the fringes of many human communities. Cyclopskin: This monster is known to exist in the Milenian Empire in the HW. I believe there were also a few in the Black Mountains, and it could easily be found elsewhere ... due to its "Greek" flavor, I would say it should be found in or around Thyatis as well as near the Meghala city-states in Davania; they should especially inhabit the occasional rocky island in the Sea of Dread or the HW. Dark Creeper/Dark Stalker: This is a *very* obscure humanoid race, from the old fiend folio; No one much ever uses them anymore, but I have put some in the Mystaran underworld, under the Isle of Dawn and eastern Brun. Darkwing: These barely qualify as sentient; they probably live in predatory, migratory flocks around the major mountain ranges of Brun, mainly the Altan Tepe. I would be surprised if they were found elsewhere. Devilfish (Ixitxachitl): These have a complex civilization on the floor of the Sea of Dread; I don't believe they are found elsewhere, though the seas off the coast of the Azcan lands in the HW would be a perfect place for them, given their AD&D name. The Dread Sea Devilfish have not yet taken a significant role in the politics of the region, but they have the capability and probably will do so in the years to come. Anybody with the Sea People supplement want to flesh this out? Diabolus: Although Diaboli are recurrent enemies of Mystaran humans, there are no long term settlements listed in any official source; IMC a very small group have a stronghold in the high mountains of the Izondan Wall. Diaboli may come to Mystara for various reasons, but they do not communicate with human/oids if they can help it. Djinni: These are a pretty major extraplanar race, often involved with the fates of various human kingdoms, possibly at the behest of the immortals. They are especially common in Ylaruam and Sind, though they could conceivably appear anywhere. Dolphin: I don't know if Mystaran dolphins are sentient; They are mentioned as existing in most of the seas around the planet, and I believe they cooperate with Tritons, and possibly other undersea races as well. Doppleganger: These nuisances seem pretty common on Mystara, especially in the highly populated areas of the KW and Alphatia. Even with competition from Mujina, Rakshasa, Randara, and Baldandar (qv.) for their given ecological niche, they seem to do pretty well. Some humans know much about them and occasionally hire/charm them to perfom various shadowy tasks; these would include the Huleans and the Glantrians. Dragon: The various races of dragon seem to be pretty well accounted for on Mystara. On the subject of metallic dragons, it has always been said that none but gold dragons are found here; however the Sis'thik entry in the MMCA strongly implies that at least copper dragons can be found. The dragon population overall is much higher than most AD&D worlds; the wyrmsteeth range in norwold seems to be filled with dragons of various sorts. Most of the population in that region should probably be smaller, younger dragons who can subsist off smaller game; full strength 2nd edition dragons should still be comparatively rare. Every once in a while, the Wyrmsteeth must reach a breaking point in population; this should send hundreds of dragons marauding across te surface of Mystara, finding new food sources. Most dragons are simply too individualistic and undisciplined to be a significant force in the goings on of the world; but individuals like Raknaar or Respen-ak-Tarpis occasionally make waves in the human societies around them. IMC a small band of dragon-mounted warriors operates for the army of Karameikos from a cave high in the Cruth; they raise dragons from captured eggs and train them as mounts for warfare. Another possible theory is that dragons are able to penetrate the sky shield, and that some nearby planet is ruled or at least heavily populated by them. The wyrmsteeth is a kind of alien colony, if you buy this theory. (Also see the historical background for the Draconian and Golden Empires on this subject). Dragon Turtle: These are extremely rare creatures, though there is known to be one in a huge pool in the Shadow Elf caves, and there are probably many in the Hollow World. On the outer world they should be found only rarely. Drake: These shapechangers appear to be minor immortal agents of some kind, as they organize themselves to infiltrate humanoid society for some philosophical purpose. They should be rarely found wherever their "host race" is found; IMC there are a small number who have their own base in Izonda. Drow: The drow are not native to Mystara, although GAZ7 mentions the Dock-Alfar and the MMCA mentions them as a possible wandering monster. I have a nation of them living (mostly above ground) at the southern end of the Isle of Dawn; I also have an offshoot group known as Ice Elves who have blue skin and live on the frozen Nentsun Peninsula. At any rate, any Drow on Mystara are NOT related to other elves of Mystara in any direct way, so I have listed them here, seperate from the Elvish entry. Dryad: These wood nymphs appear to be pretty common, especially in the forests of the KW and northern Davania. With a little bit of adjustment for local cultures (i.e. a different name or appearance) this should be a pretty common monster wherever there are trees. Dwarf: Dwarves, as a somewhat recently created race, can be broken down into a relatively specific set of subraces. The main Dwarven nation is Rockhome in the Altan Tepe, and most KW Dwarves are originally from Rockhome stock. The Alphatian nation of Denwarf-Hurgon also contains Dwarves, and the Kogolor Dwarves in the Hollow World have their own culture, unrelated to other dwarves. There is a clan of Dwarves on Fire Island in Minrothad. The Moulder Dwarves of the Northern Reaches are essentially Duergar, possibly related to the Rockhome Dwarves, possibly not. There are also rumored to be a race of Fire Dwarves who live near the Icevale Elves in the HW. IMC there are also Dwarven communities in Arypt (in Davania), on the southeast coast of the Isle of Dawn (near Caerdwicca), and on the Tangor peninsula in the high mountains. Any Dwarves found outside of these areas are few and far between, though most human cities in the civilized world will have at least a few Dwarves running around. Eblis (sp?): I think this is also a stork-like intelligent creature. It seemed an appropriate race for the Yalu river, which is huge, flat and wide like the Nile or the Mississipi; IMC the delta of the Yalu is populated by Eblis, Giff, Gurrash, a few Bullywugs, and Orcs, all appropriately marshy kinds of creatures. The Eblis are the real intellectuals of this lot, and their whole culture is dependent upon the more physical Giff, and vice versa. Ee'ar: These winged elves are apparently unknown anywhere on Mystara except for their original homeland of the Savage Coast and their temporary abode on the Immortal's Arm. I wonder what their relationship to the Faenare and Aarakocra is? Efreeti: See Djinni. These extraplanar beings apparently interfere in human events pretty frequently. They are found most often in very hot and dry areas such as deserts; I think their race may have a special understanding with Hosadus and the Huleans. Elemental: All sorts of Elementals appear to be commonly found on Mystara; someone posted something earlier about the large number of elemental vortexes which can be found on the planet's surface. Things as seemingly mundane as geology and weather patterns on Mystara are not arbitrary; instead they are the direct result of the works of various elementals. Elementals of law and chaos, as well as their more ordinary counterparts, should be pretty commonly encountered by high level adventurers, and possibly conjure elemental spells on Mystara should have a higher than usual chance of summoning non-ordinary types. IMC a group of PC's once had to organize the KW to fight off an attempted invasion from the Elemental Plane of Water; rivers were overflowing and crops were being destroyed all over Mystara until they plugged the gate and returned things (relatively) to normal. Elf: Elves have been on Mystara so long that even a race as long lived as elves can't remember their whole history. I don't have the Elven GAZ right here right now, but essentially the story is that Elves originated in southern Davania (Vulcania), where they long ago met Blackmoorian humans and gained technology from them. In the great fiery end of Blackmoor, that Elven civilization was wiped out, except for the Blacklore Elves who still live a technological life style in an isolated corner of the Hollow World. The survivors went northward, and after a complicated set of events ended up in several main locations: The Sylvan Realm (at the NW end of Brun, now largely abandoned), Wendar (and the associated parts of Denagoth called Lothenar and Genallie, Alfheim in the Canolbarth forest, Shiye Lawr in Alphatia, the Minrothad Islands (where there are two distinct Elvish clans/cultures), two clans in the forests of Karameikos, several isolated bands (probably related to the Wendarians) in Norwold, the Icevale Elves of the HW, and last but not least the Shadow Elves, who are still physically similar to other elves but whose culture has departed drastically. There are also numbers of elves who have partially or fully integrated themselves into human societies around the KW. Elvish blood is a major component of the human stock of Yavdlom, and many half-Elves are found in and around Elvish areas. IMC there are also Elves on the south end of the Isle of Dawn, related to the Shiye-Lawr, who were recently conquered and enslaved by the Drow, Aranea, and Bugbears. These elves are called "Nynet" after their capital city. A few more of these live in Dunadale and Westrourke as well. AFAIK there are no Elves currently living on Davania or Skothar in any significant numbers. See also Ee'ar. (also there is now a theory that the elves were created by Ordana out of Yuan-Ti from the serpentine empire who had been genetically altered [again] and given over to the care of the Fairies). Emerondian: These are a race of aliens who are essentially equivalent to humans but have green skin. They have their own nation hidden in the rain forests of northern Davania but are unknown elsewhere. They use biotechnology for many purposes ... I believe they also use giant insects for travel, similar to the Tasloi of the Thanegioths. Enduk: These winged minotaurs are apparently found only in the same places as Ee'ar. They once were responsible for creating the great nation of Nimmur, but have never been numerous. It is possible they were created by Nithian wizards. The existence of Enduk does point the way towards the belief that there ARE normal minotaurs (qv) on Mystara; see also Bargda. Ettercap: PWA3 says these are found in the forests of Esterhold. IMC a few live on the Isle of Dawn and associate with Aranea but not other sentient races. Faenare: I know of no evidence that these winged demi-humans live anywhere other than Flying Serraine. Whether they are the same thing as Aarakocra (qv) or just similar and related is open to debate. Familiar: These buggers replace the old "imps" of OD&D GAZ 3. Since they are manifestations of minor immortals, they should be found virtually anywhere; but since they serve as familiars to powerful spellcasters, they are likely found mainly in Glantri and Alphatia. Firenewt: Another obscure FF monster, these are not normally found on Mystara. IMC there is a tiny settlement on a volcanic island in the Sea of Dread, where they were left by an Alphatian wizard long ago after their usefulness to him ceased. Galeb Duhr: PWA3 says these talking boulders are found in Soderfjord; my guess is there should be a few around the general area, such as in Norwold, Dunadale, Heldann, etc. They could possibly be related to Rock Men (qv); at any rate they are intelligent and communicative but have no particular civilization. Gentle Folk: These (IIRC) are a long-lost offshoot of Elves, living in the HW, who have become total pacifists and vegetarians (well, vegans actually). They have little contact with anyone other than the Neathar tribes. Geonid: These little humanoid rock people were first introduced as living in the Black Mountains on the border of Hule; I know of no other location in which they are found, although the listing in the MMCA says they have interactions with mountain dwarves, which would mean they are at least occasionally found in the eastern part of Brun, perhaps in the Altan Tepes. Giant: There are many species of Giants on Mystara. The Hill, Stone, Frost, Cloud, and Storm types are known to exist commonly in various locales around the world; in addition Fire Giants live wherever there is volcanic heat or hot desert, and there is a subspecies of Aquatic Storm Giant (i.e. Sea Giant). In the forests of northern Davania, on the Isle of Dawn, and in various parts of Brun lives the mighty Athach. In Minaea there have been reported sighting of Firbolgs, and the occasional Verbeeg lives in the Black Mountains. Mountain Giants are found in Heldann, Norwold, and possibly elsewhere. Near Thothia there lives a subrace of red Stone Giants known as Hunakoi. The Hephaeston are listed as a kind of giant in te MMCA, but IMHO they are more akin to lesser titans and are likely the pet project of the Immortal whose name they bear. Nowhere on Mystara are there large communities of Giants; most live either as small family units or occasionally in nomadic bands. The one exception to this is Frosthome in Norwold, which contains large numbers of Frost Giants who occasionally raid the communities to the south. (also check the history of the ancient Giantish Kingdom of Gandhar). Giff Githyanki Githzerai Gnoll Gnome Goblin Gremlin Grimlock Gyerian Hag Halfling Half-Ogre Haoou Harpy Hobgoblin Hsiao Hutaakan Illithid (Mind Flayer) Imp Jermlaine Ki-rin Kna Koalinth Kobold Kopoacinth Kopru Kraken Kubbitt Kuo-Toan Lamara (Lamia Noble) Leprechaun Lich Lizard-kin Cayman Chameleon Man Gator Man Lizard Man Sis'thik Lupin Lycanthrope Magen Manscorpion Manticore Meazel Medusa Merman Merrow Minotaur Mite Mongrelman Mujina Naga Nagpa Nereid Nightshade Nixie Norker Nymph Ogre Ogre Mage Vodyanoi Ogrillon Orc Ord (sp?) Pegataur Phanaton Phoenix Pixie Plasm Pseudo-dragon Quaggoth Qullan Rakasta Rakshasa Rock Man Sahuagin Salamander Sasquatch Satyr Scamille Shapeshifter Adaptor Metamorph Randara Shargugh Shark-kin Sirine Skulk Snyad Sollux Sphinx Androsphinx Gynosphinx Spider, Planar Sprite Sshai Tabaxi Tabi Tasloi Thoul Titan Tortle Snapper Treant Triton Troglodyte Troll Scrag Vampire Nosferatu Velya Xvart Zombie, Lightning *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #55 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 12:10:08 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #56 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Sunday, February 8 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 056 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Parry, Disarm, And other fighters' options Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D to D&D Magic (Need Conversion Help) Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D to D&D Creatures (Need Conversion Help) Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D to D&D Magic (Need Conversion Help) [MYSTARA] - Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Physics, Philosophy and Magic [MYSTARA] - Clerics infiltrating the Great School of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for Bellissaria? Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics infiltrating the Great School of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Parry, Disarm, And other fighters' options Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D to D&D Magic (Need Conversion Help) Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics infiltrating the Great School of Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes [MYSTARA] - Ancient Languages Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes [MYSTARA] - Comments on "Sentient Races of Mystara" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 04:31:55 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Parry, Disarm, And other fighters' options For the smash maneuver, there is one good way to limit its general use. Note that the Fighter special maneuvers are generally available at level 9+. But it might be useful to combine this maneuver with the "multiple attacks" maneuver available at level 12+. Under this scheme, a fighter would have the choice of making two or more attacks for normal damage or making a single attack for greatly increased damage. Which option a fighter uses would vary with the situation. If a fighter with only one attack is allowed to perform the smash maneuver, then it might be a good idea to have him spend the following round recovering - -- that way, the fighter would still be faced with the same choices. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 05:01:59 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D to D&D Magic (Need Conversion Help) In a message dated 98-02-07 18:04:58 EST, strawberry@jamm.com writes: >4. 1st Level Clerical Spells: >Bless/Curse Same as 2nd level OD&D spell of same name. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 05:01:58 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D to D&D Creatures (Need Conversion Help) In a message dated 98-02-07 18:04:05 EST, strawberry@jamm.com writes: >1. Sahuagin >I know they're sort of shark-kin'ish, but that's about it Two changes -- sahuagin are thoroughly evil and always have legs. >2. Koalinth >I know only that they are an underwater race Aquatic hobgoblins, with swimming rate of 12. >3. Locathah >Ditto about being an underwater race Treat as mermen with less attractive features (they are fish-like humanoids with fins and scales). >4. Bullywugs >I know only that they are a race that lives in swamps If you have the DA module "Temple of the Frog", check it -- that is the most likely place to find an OD&D adaptation of this frog-like humanoid. >5. Amphisbaena >Some creature that is small enough to live inside an alter and that could also be trained by a Lizard Man shaman to guard said alter This one is a large, two-headed (one at each end), poisonous snake. >6. Oriental Dragon >The listing is for a 'young adult' and mentions something about a 'water fire attack'. I'm sure I could muddle something up, but I'd be interested in knowing more about the 'real thing' What was the exact name of the dragon? It should be " lung", most likely. That might help narrow things down a bit. >7. Pseudo Dragon >I expect a Pocket Dragon would be close enough. Only if that's WAY off, do I need more info. :-) 1 1/2' long, 35% MR (can be shared with human companion), blends in with surroundings, poisonous sting (causes catalepsy). >8. Thork >I have no idea. The listing says they have a Special Attack whereing The can Squirt Boiling Water Looks like a stork with copper feathers. Breath weapon inflicts 4d8 hit points of damage. >9. Babblers >Again, I have no idea. However, Lizardmen can apparently smell these from a distance and are particularly afraid of dealing with them. They also have a SA of Backstab as a LV4 thief. Treat as gator man, but cannot use weapons. Language is incomprehensible to other races. >10.Rot Grubs >Okay, I know, roughly, what these are. However, as there isn't anything remotely like them in any Offical D&D creature listing I could really use >a good description of them. They look like worms and burrow quickly into flesh. Victim dies in d3 turns (10-30 minutes). >11.Ixitxachitl >I have absolutely no idea. I think PC 4 called them "devil fish". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 05:02:01 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D to D&D Magic (Need Conversion Help) In a message dated 98-02-07 18:04:58 EST, strawberry@jamm.com writes: >6. 3nd Level Clerical Spells: >Bestow Curse (what's the difference b/t this and 1st level 'Curse'?) This one is the reverse of "Remove Curse". 1st level "Curse" spell is reverse of "Bless". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 00:13:37 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia Hi! >Let me explain better...I see Alphatia as being in a constant decline almost from the moment they set foot on Mystara. Any society, in fact, that relies on slavery is going to find itself in decline. And why do you think so? Besides the fact that every society will probably decline at some point! ************************************************************ Peter Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 00:21:23 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Physics, Philosophy and Magic Hi! >Actually, as a scientist, you should be willing to treat the wall as simply an ontological postulate which you use to make predictions about the world ... Yes, of course, I should be willing to do that, but not in my scientific work for physics, because one of the axioms of physics is that there is something like a reality, you can talk about it, and you can even measure it! one that can be dispensed with if it is inconvenient to your >analysis (you might want, for instance, to talk about things at the molecular level, so that the "wall" becomes a superfluous concept, being nothing other than one way of cheaply describing the much more complex arrangement of organic compounds which form the wood - assuming it's a wooden wall) Nevertheless the molecules are thought of being real! ... thus Einstein was able to completely dispense with what >were previously considered "common sense" ideas of time and space in order Nevertheless he stayed in the scientific system, light wasn´t something phylosophical, but something "real". >which leads us back to the inescapable conclusion that in Mystara, the DM this kind of makes sense, only there is so MUCH magic in Mystara, it's hard to figure out what is "normal". I mean shit, even GRAVITY is totally different in Mystara (it emanates from magical force fields, not mass). and what about the argument that something about Mystara specifically prohibits technology from working normally? Right, but there is at least some kind of explanation for this type of gravity. Is not just" The Gravity is different!" ************************************************************ Peter Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 11:50:46 +0000 From: Thorfinn Tait Subject: [MYSTARA] - Clerics infiltrating the Great School of Magic I am currently playing a campaign in which one of my players has an interesting ancestry involving dragons. Some of you know a little about it already from my last post, so I'll get straight to the point. The Glantrian Secret Craft of Dracology is going to be of interest to him, once he finds out about its existence. Naturally, an investigation of it would greatly help him to get "closer to his roots." The catch is, he is a cleric! Now, here is the question: is it possible for a cleric to infiltrate the Great School of Magic (ie pose as a magic-user)? And even if he can, is it possible for a cleric to learn a Glantrian secret craft? The PC does have a magic-user friend to help him, but since he doesn't even know about the possibility yet, I can't tell you what his plan is. My current feeling is that if he role-plays it well, and comes up with some sort of ingenious plan (Discworld fans will at this point say "Just get him to say he's Rincewind!" ;-), there's no reason not to let it work. As for the cleric learning magic-user craft thing, it's not too important given that my campaign is in no danger of being unbalanced and also I can say he is capable due to his partially draconic nature. What do you all think? Thorf. ========================================= "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost." Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline ========================================= *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 07:45:02 -0600 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for On Fri, 06 Feb 1998 11:51:47 CET "Herve Musseau" writes: >>>If this means the return of the Alphatian continent to the surface >>world, >>>sounds good to me! I never liked the idea of Alphatia sinking anyway >- >>it >>>was too much radical change at one time - Alphatia belongs on the >>surface, >>>IMO. >Sorry, Khan, sorry Geoff, you didn't win a free copy of the upcoming almanac. >Please insert a new coin and try again ;) Anyway I told you, it's a hint but difficult to interpret. Especially since it's not part of the Alphatian mythos, so you need to be very knowledgeable about Mystara to tell what mythos this is from. It sounded Azcan to me. Hmm.... Is Atzanteotl going to suffer a master stroke at the hands of Atruaghin... or maybe Ka and Ixion ... or maybe all three? _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 15:42:30 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Hi! ><< Mighty Khan, can you please translate me "es wird in keinster Weise durch >die Regeln gedeckt"? >My German is not that good... :-) >> >No problem, but it was for Peter from Wien, anyway. (He should be able to read it.) Thanks! And now part 2 of our little german lessons: "In Basaren in Ierendi solltest Du immer versuchen in den Verhandlungsgesprächen mehr Kinder, Frauen und andere Verwandte einzubringen als Dein Gegenueber. Am besten solltest Du auch noch betonen, dasz ihr Wohlergehen an einem guten Handlunsgabschlusz haengt!" ;-) It seems that many list-members know German. That´s intersting! ************************************************************ Peter Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 15:03:43 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for Bellissaria? Hi! >Unfortunately, most regions besides the KW (or OW, Old World, if you go by the new name) do not spark as much interest, and there aren't as many contributors to the NACE, the HW, the SC, Davania, etc, as there are to OW. >Okay, that was a BIG hint to would-be contributors ;) Okay! My PC´s are just in the Thyatian Hinterlands, trying to secure a dominion. I had thought of something for this region, and will post it sometime. I´m even working on PWA-type information sheet fpr the Hinterlands, although it will be based on MC. >So, if you want to contribute to the 1016 almanac, get in touch with me for the NACE, Alphatia, HW, with Brizio for SE, with Andrew for 'noids, Ethangar, Atruaghin, with Michael for SC, Davania, and the rest of the OW. And the adress of Michael is? ************************************************************ Peter Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 10:02:47 ESTFrom: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics infiltrating the Great School of Magic << What do you all think? >> Real funny idea. I've something similar. I created an elven cleric (we've expanded the rules a little bit !), Isabella, cleric of Fana (the "n" is a Spanish on with a tilde on it), otherway known as Vanya. She wears a rapier and a main-gauch (left-handed dagger) and tells everybody that she never visited the Grand School and has only little knowledge in magical things. But a cleric who attends the Grand School and learns a craft? He must use a forged spellbook and avoid a llok of his teachers. He must avoid ESP spells and he must get a handy explanation why he cannot get the knack about spells like "shield", "sleep" or "magic missile". But I think with a DM who makes the NPCs blind might help a bit. :-) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 10:12:06 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) >And now part 2 of our little german lessons: >"In Basaren in Ierendi solltest Du immer versuchen in den Verhandlungsgesprächen mehr Kinder, Frauen und andere Verwandte einzubringen als Dein Gegenueber. Am besten solltest Du auch noch betonen, dasz ihr Wohlergehen an einem guten Handlunsgabschlusz haengt!" ;-) >It seems that many list-members know German. That´s intersting! Say, could you German speakers give us a list of some common phrases (with pronunciation) that could be used to flavor a Heldannic/Hattian area? Thanks *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 10:12:54 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) << And now part 2 of our little german lessons: "In Basaren in Ierendi solltest Du immer versuchen in den Verhandlungsgesprächen mehr Kinder, Frauen und andere Verwandte einzubringen als Dein Gegenueber. Am besten solltest Du auch noch betonen, dasz ihr Wohlergehen an einem guten Handlunsgabschlusz haengt!" ;-) It seems that many list-members know German. That´s intersting! >> Where did you get that? The German letter "sz" is normally not replaced by the two letters "s" and "z", but by "ss". On the other hand the German army does it exactly this way: "Farbe, weisz" <== colour, white Additionally I would say "Auf Basaren ...". Jamuga Khan "All people should speak the same language. It would be much easier to get informations from them before killing them." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 16:13:34 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes hi! >( If there's one thing a Dwarf hates more than an Elf, it's a Shadow Elf ). I always had the opinion, that the dwarves could get along with shadow elves pretty well. At least they bargained sometimes. Am I wrong? ************************************************************ Peter Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 15:58:10 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Parry, Disarm, And other fighters' options Hi! I´m using "critical hits". On a natural "20", you´ll land a critical hit! But you can also aim at differnet body-pats, with differentn mali. >Smash: the fighter has -5 penalty on his roll to hit and if he hits he adds I use the following: - -5 double damage - -10 3x damage - -20 4x damage (This might seem quite high!) >Parry: ok, there are at least three different ways to handle this, so i'd like to know what is the one u normally adopt and why. >Companion rule: when the fighter wants to parry, he simply stands in a defensive position and does nothing else for the whole round, gaining a -5 AC bonus for the whole round. I use the AD&D version: Bonus for AC is Lvl/2 (+1 for Fghters) >DotE rule: when the character wants to parry, he must intercept the attacker's blow using his weapon. To do this, he simply rolls to hit the opponent AC and if he hits he has intercepted the blow (he can do it with a weapon or with the shield). Clearly, he can parry one attack for each attack he has got, and if he parries he cannot use the "attack" to attack then (hope u've understood here ;)) IMC you can also try to parry an attack with one of your attacks, BUT you have to hit a better AC than your opponent had. I never really understood, why it should be easier to block an attack from a naked guy than from one in plate mail. >Disarm: this is one of the simplest and really gives me no problems, but i'll list anyway. To disarm one must roll to hit his opponent AC: if the blows hits, the attacker may call for a disarm option (the option is available only to name level fighters and to certain weapon masteries). IMC, the attacker has to announce befoer the attack, that he wants to disarm. And he gets a +4 on the attack roll. >Dodge: ok, i personally think this rule is a bit silly and that my method is This is not used IMC. It is partially included in "Parry" above. ************************************************************ Peter Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 10:31:46 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D to D&D Magic (Need Conversion Help) In a message dated 98-02-07 18:04:58 EST, strawberry@jamm.com writes: >8. Intelligent Magic Sword >I'd like to know what the following details mean/do in AD&D terms: * INT of 12 >* 'semi-empathy' >* EGO of 3 >* Personality Score of 15 Most of these terms match the corresponding rules for intelligent weapons as given in the D&D Rules Cyclopedia. "Semi-empathy" means that the weapon gives the user a throb, tingle, or urge when one of its special abilities functions. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 10:32:03 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clerics infiltrating the Great School of Magic In a message dated 98-02-08 08:35:12 EST, Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk writes: >Now, here is the question: is it possible for a cleric to infiltrate the >Great School of Magic (ie pose as a magic-user)? I would imagine that the Cleric would face some grave difficulties -- the way I always played the Great School of Magic, the faculty at the school would require students to demonstrate their ability by not only casting spells but demonstrating their casting and research techniques in detail. A normal cleric would give himself away by his ignorance of many of the mechanical details of spellcasting. Of course, this risk might be mitigated if the character has some actual Mage abilities. A Half-Elf Cleric/Mage, for example, would only have to suppress display of his Cleric abilities. Dual-classed humans and humanoid Witch Doctors might convince the faculty that they have real but limited magical talent. >And even if he can, is it possible for a cleric to learn a Glantrian secret craft? If he manages to show Mage ability to the point of being able to cast 3rd level Wizard spells, then he might eventually convince somebody to teach him a secret craft. >The PC does have a magic-user friend to help him, but since he doesn't even know about the possibility yet, I can't tell you what his plan is. That approach might work but would be very risky -- basically, his character would be "cheating" and thus would run a major risk of being caught. >My current feeling is that if he role-plays it well, and comes up with some sort of ingenious plan (Discworld fans will at this point say "Just get him to say he's Rincewind!" ;-), there's no reason not to let it work. As for the cleric learning magic-user craft thing, it's not too important given that my campaign is in no danger of being unbalanced and also I can say he is capable due to his partially draconic nature. If his draconic nature gives the character real Mage abilities, then he just might have a chance. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 11:30:11 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes In a message dated 98-02-08 10:36:55 EST, a9003307@unet.univie.ac.at writes: >I always had the opinion, that the dwarves could get along with shadow >elves pretty well. At least they bargained sometimes. Am I wrong? I suspect that a dwarf would have trouble distinguishing a shadow elf from any other type of elf and that a shadow elf would have a tough time getting along with anyone who is not a shadow elf. When or where are there any records of dwarves bargaining with shadow elves, except perhaps when they negotiated during a truce in their fight for Oenkmar? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 11:28:11 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ancient Languages At 03:42 PM 2/6/98 +0100, you wrote: >And now part 2 of our little german lessons: >"In Basaren in Ierendi solltest Du immer versuchen in den Verhandlungsgesprächen mehr Kinder, Frauen und andere Verwandte einzubringen als Dein Gegenueber. Am besten solltest Du auch noch betonen, dasz ihr Wohlergehen an einem guten Handlunsgabschlusz haengt!" ;-) >It seems that many list-members know German. That´s intersting! My German is about as good as my Chinese. However, I speak French, and I am teaching myself another language: Latin. Does anyone else think about using RW ancient languages in their games? I'm thinking (obviously) about Latin in particular, but Sanskrit, Classical Greek, Anglo-Saxon (not really that old), Hebrew, and ancient Egyptian are all viable candidates. I know Thyatian names are Latin, but I'm wondering about the language itself; perhaps it was originally a Latin-type language, but over a thousand years it has evolved into something different. What say thee, fellow sages? Glen Sprigg *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 11:30:54 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes At 04:13 PM 2/8/98 +0100, you wrote: >hi! >>( If there's one thing a Dwarf hates more than an Elf, it's a Shadow Elf ). >I always had the opinion, that the dwarves could get along with shadow elves pretty well. At least they bargained sometimes. Am I wrong? That depends. If you're the DM, you're right. If you're a player and the DM says you're right, you're right. Otherwise you're obviously totally wrong. :-) Glen Sprigg *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 12:08:20 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Comments on "Sentient Races of Mystara" >Annis: I don't have my AD&D monster books with me (other than the mystara appendix); can some attentive person please tell me what this monster is? I have the feeling it is sentient but don't remember it. An Annis is a type of hag (large ugly female humanoid, possible fiendish in origin). >Brownie: There is no canon evidence that I know of which would indicate that any brownies exist on Mystara. IMC they are rare but exist in the forests of Dunadale/Westrourke and occasionally are found in the Canolbarth and other forests of Brun. PC 1 (Tall Tales of the Wee Folk) does mention Brownies as a fairy race found on Mystara. >Diabolus: Although Diaboli are recurrent enemies of Mystaran humans, there are no long term settlements listed in any official source; IMC a very small group have a stronghold in the high mountains of the Izondan Wall. Diaboli may come to Mystara for various reasons, but they do not communicate with human/oids if they can help it. I think one of the PWAs mentions diaboli peacefully colonizing some place on Mystara -- Norwold perhaps? >Dolphin: I don't know if Mystaran dolphins are sentient; They are mentioned as existing in most of the seas around the planet, and I believe they cooperate with Tritons, and possibly other undersea races as well. Yes -- according to PC 3 (The Sea Peoples), dolphins are sentient and serve tritons and aquatic elves as steeds. >Ee'ar: These winged elves are apparently unknown anywhere on Mystara except for their original homeland of the Savage Coast and their temporary abode on the Immortal's Arm. I wonder what their relationship to the Faenare and Aarakocra is? These winged elves would be more closely related to the avariel, I would think. >Faenare: I know of no evidence that these winged demi-humans live anywhere other than Flying Serraine. Whether they are the same thing as Aarakocra (qv) or just similar and related is open to debate. PC 2 (the source of the Faenare) mentions that they live in the Broken Lands. Most likely they dwell in inaccessible parts of the surface, well away from the tunnels of the goblinoids. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #56 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 20:50:12 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #57 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com Status: RO mystara-digest Sunday, February 8 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 057 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D to D&D Creatures (Need Conversion Help) Re: [MYSTARA] - Parry, Disarm, And other fighters' options Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Sentient Races on Mystara [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes [MYSTARA] - Hexmaps Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Sentient Races on Mystara [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for Bellissaria? Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Sentient Races on Mystara [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 14:31:35 EST From: Magesmiley@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D to D&D Creatures (Need Conversion Help) In a message dated 98-02-07 18:04:05 EST, you write: << List of Creatures: ------------------ 1. Sahuagin I know they're sort of shark-kin'ish, but that's about it Their stats are fairly close to lizard men, except they move twice as fast, I'd probably change them to Lizard Men. 2. Koalinth I know only that they are an underwater race Not sure. 3. Locathah Ditto about being an underwater race Would probably change these to Merrow, Tritons, or Kna (Kna would fit the closest in appearance, but there's a big difference in HD) 4. Bullywugs I know only that they are a race that lives in swamps Frog-like race, DA2 has some Frog-men stats, failing that replace them with lizard men or troglodytes. 5. Amphisbaena Some creature that is small enough to live inside an alter and that could also be trained by a Lizard Man shaman to guard said alter Its a 2 headed snake, No real good equivalent, I'd replace it with 2-3 Snake, Giant Racers. 6. Oriental Dragon The listing is for a 'young adult' and mentions something about a 'water fire attack'. I'm sure I could muddle something up, but I'd be interested in knowing more about the 'real thing' Not sure which it is, would probably replace it with an Black,Onyx, Green or Jade Dragon. 7. Pseudo Dragon I expect a Pocket Dragon would be close enough. Only if that's WAY off, do I need more info. :-) Pocket Dragon is close. 8. Thork I have no idea. The listing says they have a Special Attack whereing The can Squirt Boiling Water Have no idea here... how about replacing them with oil beetles or something? 9. Babblers Again, I have no idea. However, Lizardmen can apparently smell these from a distance and are particularly afraid of dealing with them. They also have a SA of Backstab as a LV4 thief. Stumped again... although given the smell mentioned perhaps troglodytes might be a good replacement. 10.Rot Grubs Okay, I know, roughly, what these are. However, as there isn't anything remotely like them in any Offical D&D creature listing I could really use a good description of them. How about replacing them with the Red Worms from the Creature Catalog? 11.Ixitxachitl I have absolutely no idea. These are the same as the Devilfish ---------- Okay, that's the list. Hopefully some of you can give me some help :-) Jenni >> *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 15:19:29 -0600 From: ccosman@huntingdon.edu (Cecil Cosman) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Parry, Disarm, And other fighters' options Responding to the message of Sat, 7 Feb 1998 10:02:00 +0100 (MET) from DM : >Ok, here we are for another episode of the "Rules Issues" saga. This time i'd like to focus on the different ways the fighters' options are >treated. Let's consider one at a time: >Smash: the fighter has -5 penalty on his roll to hit and if he hits he adds >his Strength score to the damage. Right, but how do you exactly handle the >Smash option with the weapon masteries? I mean, it was designed before they >came out to increase the fighters' effectiveness, but now that they're allowed to do extra damage with masteries and that they've got high bonuses >due to weapon masteries, the smash maneuver is almost automatic from a certain level and on. I know it depends all on how u view the smash attack, >but IMO if it's all a question of "using strength instead of precision" why >should the fighters use their weapon mastery to hit bonus? What do you think? Should they use only their Dex & magical bonuses of weapons when they >smash or are allowed to use weapon masteries bonus too? (note: i'm not talking about the damage, but only of the "to hit bonus" here) The way I see smash is it's an all or nothing kinda deal. That fighter is putting everything he has into it and it's pretty hard to control. I don't allow any bonus to the smash... and I only allow it once a battle. >Parry: ok, Master rule (this ones comes with the weapon mastery): to parry, the >character must simply roll a Saving Throw vs. Death Ray. If he succeeds, he >has interecepted the incoming attack without losing any of his attacks. He >can only parry a given number of attacks per round as specified by his weapon mastery (this kind of parries don't increase by use of spells such as >Haste IMO). >So, according to the second and third option, one could parry even if he's >not a fighter nor of name level (the DotE option allows it to any class, while the Master option allows parry with certain types of weapons depending >on the weapon mastery). Only companion rules that the parry is a maneuver available to fighters of name level or higher only. What do you prefer/use >and why? The way I see parrying... a sword duel involves a lot of attacking and counter attacking... you can be on the defensive or offensive or a combo... I use the weapon mastry parry defensive deal and it goes like this... If you are capable of parrying two attacks around.. you can either... parry two attacks, parry one attack and attack, or just swing the sword. I don't have anything to add about disarm or dodge. ;) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 16:59:50 EST From: Wassellj@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes In a message dated 08/02/98 16:42:36, you write: << I always had the opinion, that the dwarves could get along with shadow elves pretty well. At least they bargained sometimes. Am I wrong? >> I am no expert on these matters, is there not something about Dwarves damaging Soul Crystals in their mining expeditions ? One of my colleagues plays a Shadow-Elf and he said something along these lines. Plus I would expand that an say that Dwarves are out to exploit the earth for material gain which would not go down well with out highly religous Shadow- Elves. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 17:07:27 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) << Say, could you German speakers give us a list of some common phrases (with pronunciation) that could be used to flavor a Heldannic/Hattian area? >> Why not? At least I have German-English and English-German dictionaries with pronunciation entries. But IMO it were better if you think about a few phrases. When translating these we will have ideas about further important phrases. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 15:33:11 -0600 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sentient Races on Mystara [LONG] On Sat, 7 Feb 1998 20:15:39 -0800 (PST) Matthew Levy writes: >Beholder: The Beholder has been known to exist on Mystara for some time, >but has never seemed to have much influence on the world as an intelligent >being. My guess is that Beholders are still somewhat new and are extremely rare on Mystara, and many are still building up knowledge and >political power; someday they may be a significant force in human events, >as they are on Faerun. Beholder-kin of the various sorts are apparently >unknown on Mystara, except for the aquatic beholder (eye of the deep), which is mentioned in the MMCA; possibly there might be a handful of these >wandering around the sea of dread; maybe they are allies of the devilfish >who live there. If you go by my Undersea Timeline, the aquatic beholders live in the Alphatain Sea, and have a city there. >Devilfish (Ixitxachitl): These have a complex civilization on the floor >of the Sea of Dread; I don't believe they are found elsewhere, though the >seas off the coast of the Azcan lands in the HW would be a perfect place >for them, given their AD&D name. The Dread Sea Devilfish have not yet taken a significant role in the politics of the region, but they have the >capability and probably will do so in the years to come. Anybody with the >Sea People supplement want to flesh this out? You haven't read my Undersea Timeline, have you? :) _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 17:57:16 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes In einer eMail vom 08.02.98 16:36:55 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << I always had the opinion, that the dwarves could get along with shadow elves pretty well. At least they bargained sometimes. Am I wrong? >> Yes and no! There definitely more in common between a dwarf and a shadow-elf than between a darf and a normal elf, but the shadow-elves don't trust everyone and dwarves know how to react to such a behaviour. The thing with bargains is true, however, but it's an idea of the shadow-elves to keep single dawrves quiet who found their caverns and tunnels. Such dwarves will simply be corrupted. This was the case before the existence of the shadow-elves became public knowledge. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 17:57:20 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Hexmaps Has anybody electronically hexmaps? Once I found one on MPGN but I lost it during a crash and was not able to get a new one. Please don't send them as attachment files to the list, but directly to me. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 16:27:57 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Hi! >Say, could you German speakers give us a list of some common phrases (with pronunciation) that could be used to flavor a Heldannic/Hattian area? Sure! But which commom phrases? ************************************************************ Peter Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 16:27:14 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Hi! >Where did you get that? I just made it up! >The German letter "sz" is normally not replaced by the two letters "s" and "z", but by "ss". As a matter of habit I replace it with "sz" (maybe because many people make mistakes when writing my name!) >Additionally I would say "Auf Basaren ...". I´m not quite sure! (ut I am a native german speaker, although from Austria!) ************************************************************ Peter Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 21:08:15 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Hi! >I suspect that a dwarf would have trouble distinguishing a shadow elf from any other type of elf and that a shadow elf would have a tough time getting along with anyone who is not a shadow elf. When or where are there any records of dwarves bargaining with shadow elves, except perhaps when they negotiated during a truce in their fight for Oenkmar? Gaz 13, p. 33."An old dwarf of the Syrklist clan of Rockhome speaks to cousin, a merchant trading for ores:" ************************************************************ Peter Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ ***************************************************************************To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 15:24:08 -0800 From: David Keyser Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sentient Races on Mystara [LONG] Very well done Matthew. >Beholder: The Beholder has been known to exist on Mystara for some time, but has never seemed to have much influence on the world as an intelligent being. My guess is that Beholders are still somewhat new and are extremely rare on Mystara, and many are still building up knowledge and political power; In Dragonmage of Mystara, there is a brief reference which indicates that beholders first came to Mystara during the great invasion described in that book. Which would means that they have been on Mystara for less than 500 years. At the very least, they were unknown in the Known World. Dave Keyser *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 01:16:50 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for Bellissaria? At 15.03 06/02/98 +0100, you wrote: >>So, if you want to contribute to the 1016 almanac, get in touch with me for the NACE, Alphatia, HW, with Brizio for SE, with Andrew for 'noids, Ethangar, Atruaghin, with Michael for SC, Davania, and the rest of the OW. >And the adress of Michael is? mroy@cyberus.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 02:10:30 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) >As a matter of habit I replace it with "sz" (maybe because many people make mistakes when writing my name!) sz sounds Hungarian. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 18:16:21 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sentient Races on Mystara [LONG] On Sat, 7 Feb 1998, Matthew Levy wrote: >Actaeon: These are an underused monster from OD&D. Probably "created" as a guardian race by immortals (perhaps Djaea, or Zirchev), these Elk Centaurs live only in deep temperate forests ... the northern taiga of Brun, and *maybe* the southern portions of Vulcania, the Canolbarth, or perhaps the Hollow World. They should not be found in areas without large expanses of forest nor in settled areas. There's a Dragon article on the Ecology of the Actaeon. It is similar to what you describe- an elk picked for its strength and then altered by the Immortals into an Actaeon, to serve as a wilderness protector. As such, it cannot breed true. There is one in the Achelos Woods in Karameikos. Don't recall the issue # offhand, though. >Boobrie: I don't remember but I think that this is a type of sentient storklike creature. IIRC it may be similar or related to the Eblis, which I had planned to put in the Yalu river delta as a strange counterpart to the Giff; anyway MMCA says Boobries exist on Mystara in marshy areas; I would guess the Malpheggi would be a good place for them. Any ideas? Perhaps related to the Gyerians? >Brain Collector (Neh-Thalggu): These alien critters seem to have a particular interest in Mystara, as I know of nowhere else in the Prime Material Plane where they are found. AFAIK, though, there are only two sightings that can actually be confirmed: The Brain collector met by adventurers investigating Chateau d'Ambreville after the first disappearance of Prince Etienne (x2), and one encountered by Haldemar of Haaken along the savage coast (Dragon Magazine #?, anybody know?). Due to its association with the Cthulhu mythos (through CAS and Averoigne), it is likely that this monster is from the dimension of the Old Ones, the vortex from whence spectral hounds and blackballs come. Either that, or it is from the Dimension of Nightmares (if these two places are not connected or even the same). Somewhere (Gold Box?) these creatures were described as Nightmare Creatures. I'd say probably native to the Ethereal. The one in Princess Ark was a student of Interplanar Cosmogonic Magic at some university. I'd say that indicates an advanced society. >Brownie: There is no canon evidence that I know of which would indicate that any brownies exist on Mystara. IMC they are rare but exist in the forests of Dunadale/Westrourke and occasionally are found in the Canolbarth and other forests of Brun. PC1 describes them. >Bruteman: These Mystaran equivalents of Neanderthals exist only in the Hollow World. However, it is possible that isolated communities of cavemen still exist on surface Mystara, and I think there are likely modules that refer to them. Perhaps X1, anybody know? These seem to me to be the same Neanderthals described in the Cyclopedia. As such, there are still isolated communities on the surface. There are some mentioned in B2- which would place them in the mountains north of Karameikos. An alternative to that would be to replace the Neanderthals with primitive Traladarans (from the Creature Catalog). >Chevall: These are more rare than centaurs, but should be found in many of the same places, especially the forests of Karameikos and Alfheim (pre-Aengmor); I do not think they are found anywhere but Brun however. As a side note, I have always considered Chevalls the centaur lycanthropes. Their form of lycanthropy is different in some ways than true lycanthropy, and they hate other were creatures, but the mark of the Chevall is a sign of favor from the Immortals. I once did an xp table for the Chevall similar to what was done in PC4, for centaur lycanthropes. >Couatl: This feathered servant of the immortals is associated with the Oltec culture, and is found only in the forests of the Atruaghin clans and in the Hollow World. I don't have a source on that, so can someone check me on that? First described in HWA2. They inhabit a floating continent. The surface serpents are presentient. It is only when they migrate to the floating continent where their queen lives that they attain full consciousness. >Dolphin: I don't know if Mystaran dolphins are sentient; They are mentioned as existing in most of the seas around the planet, and I believe they cooperate with Tritons, and possibly other undersea races as well. They're just as intelligent as RW dolphins. Whether that makes them sentient is a matter of academic debate. Narwhals are in the same category. >Doppleganger: These nuisances seem pretty common on Mystara, especially in the highly populated areas of the KW and Alphatia. Even with competition from Mujina, Rakshasa, Randara, and Baldandar (qv.) for their given ecological niche, they seem to do pretty well. Some humans know much about them and occasionally hire/charm them to perfom various shadowy tasks; these would include the Huleans and the Glantrians. I have sort of conceived of them as primitive Adaptors- probably degenerate survivors of an early Adaptor expedition to Mystara. >Dragon: The various races of dragon seem to be pretty well accounted for on Mystara. On the subject of metallic dragons, it has always been said that none but gold dragons are found here; however the Sis'thik entry in the MMCA strongly implies that at least copper dragons can be found. G:KoM implies there are silver dragons in Glantri, as well, but I'd take all of that with a grain of salt, myself. >Another possible theory is that dragons are able to penetrate the sky shield, and that some nearby planet is ruled or at least heavily populated by them. The wyrmsteeth is a kind of alien colony, if you buy this theory. (Also see the historical background for the Draconian and Golden Empires on this subject). This has been proposed in a couple of places. Also, for more on Mystara's dragons, see Dragon Mags #170 and 171. Two articles by Bruce Heard that describe the lifestyles of Dragons and dragon kingdoms of the Known World. >Dragon Turtle: These are extremely rare creatures, though there is known to be one in a huge pool in the Shadow Elf caves, and there are probably many in the Hollow World. On the outer world they should be found only rarely. One makes its home in the ruins of Colhador (module X7). It probably has conflicts with the sea dragon Thundiara, whose draconic kingdom borders on the outskirts of Undersea (extending into the Barony of Nortens, which is just west of Colhador). >Drake: These shapechangers appear to be minor immortal agents of some kind, as they organize themselves to infiltrate humanoid society for some philosophical purpose. They should be rarely found wherever their "host race" is found; IMC there are a small number who have their own base in Izonda. See PC1 for more info. They are actually Fairy creatures. >Dwarf: Dwarves, as a somewhat recently created race, can be broken down into a relatively specific set of subraces. >The Moulder Dwarves of the Northern Reaches are essentially Duergar, possibly related to the Rockhome Dwarves, possibly not. I always thought they were closer to Deep Dwarves, myself. >Any Dwarves found outside of these areas are few and far between, though most human cities in the civilized world will have at least a few Dwarves running around. IMC I've got a community of dwarves in the Wendar region, descendants of refugees fleeing Glantrian persecution in 802 AC. >Elf: Elves have been on Mystara so long that even a race as long lived as elves can't remember their whole history. >There are also numbers of elves who have partially or fully integrated themselves into human societies around the KW. There are barbaric elves still on the southern continent, in Vulcania (they have lost their magic due to the presence of the anti-magic aura around the southern polar opening), and the Trueflower elves of the Isle of Dawn (M5). >Enduk: These winged minotaurs are apparently found only in the same places as Ee'ar. They once were responsible for creating the great nation of Nimmur, but have never been numerous. It is possible they were created by Nithian wizards. The existence of Enduk does point the way towards the belief that there ARE normal minotaurs (qv) on Mystara; see also Bargda. There are normal minotaurs on Mystara. I'm not entirely sure where you get the idea that there aren't. >Faenare: I know of no evidence that these winged demi-humans live anywhere other than Flying Serraine. Whether they are the same thing as Aarakocra (qv) or just similar and related is open to debate. They are apparently native to the Broken Lands (PC2), which is where they were first approached by the gnomes to assist with the building of Serraine. >Geonid: These little humanoid rock people were first introduced as living in the Black Mountains on the border of Hule; I know of no other location in which they are found, although the listing in the MMCA says they have interactions with mountain dwarves, which would mean they are at least occasionally found in the eastern part of Brun, perhaps in the Altan Tepes. There were clans of Geonids that lived south of Blackmoor in ancient times. So they've been around a while. Probably related to Rockmen. >Giant: There are many species of Giants on Mystara. There is also a species called "Great Giant" mentioned in Gaz7 that is presumably near Immortal level in powers. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 01:32:03 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes At 16.13 08/02/98 +0100, Peter Balazs wrote: >hi! >>( If there's one thing a Dwarf hates more than an Elf, it's a Shadow Elf ). >I always had the opinion, that the dwarves could get along with shadow elves pretty well. At least they bargained sometimes. Am I wrong? Not at all. It's true that the thing a Dwarf hates more than an Elf it's a Shadow Elf, but it's also true that there's some trade between Shadow Elves and unscrupulous dwarves. It's in GAZ 13. Basically Shadow Elves give Dwarves precious minerals in exchange for them not mining Shadow Elves lands. This is a way to protect Soul Crystals. Moreover Shadow Elves consider Dwarves quite stupid, because they value gold and silver more than Soul Crystals. Obviously this is before the Oenkmar war, things may be much different now. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 21:52:34 +0000 From: Thorfinn Tait Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes On Sun, 8 Feb 1998 Peter Balazs wrote: >hi! >>( If there's one thing a Dwarf hates more than an Elf, it's a Shadow Elf ). >I always had the opinion, that the dwarves could get along with shadow elves pretty well. At least they bargained sometimes. Am I wrong? I do seem to remember something to that effect in GAZ 13. As far as I can remember, they occasionally have dealings with dwarf miners who have delved a little too deeply, and gotten to some soul crystals. I think they sought a peaceful solution rather than (or in some cases just before) mounting a military assault. The dwarven perspective on Shadow Elves also suggests that they do occasionally get along and even manage to do some business with each other. Thank you kindly, Thorf. ========================================= "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost." Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline ========================================= *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #57 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:22:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #58 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com Status: U mystara-digest Monday, February 9 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 058 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Mighty Empire...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Mighty Empire...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Ancient Languages Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) [MYSTARA] - (fwd) Nemesis's Mystara/D&D Modules and Supplements For Sale Re: [MYSTARA] - (fwd) Nemesis's Mystara/D&D Modules and Supplements For Sale Re: [MYSTARA] - re: glantrian economy Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Ancient Languages Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker Re: [MYSTARA] - Ancient Languages Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D to D&D Magic (Need Conversion Help) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 18:53:10 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Mighty Empire...? Doing a little research last night, for various reasons. Anyway, I was going through module M1: Into the Maelstrom, which, among other things, describes the original homeworld system of the Alphatians, along with a map of it. Interestingly, according to the measurements of the 'breathable atmosphere limits' that were created when the Followers of Air surrounded their world in a bubble of air, the diameter of that sphere is approximately 2600 sq.mi. Meaning a circumference of just over 8000 sq. miles. Your point is...? Well, given that the Alphatians' feat is described as being something incredible, and that they are said to have enclosed their home system in an air bubble, that means that their world must have been somewhat smaller than 8000 miles in circumference- less than half the size of Mystara itself! The Alphatians homeworld was a tiny satellite, smaller even than the moon of Patera! Near as I can figure, the Alphatians had the one planet, along with two other satellite moons (Delthar and Gammar), which they enclosed within the air pocket when they expanded their home planet's atmosphere. An incredible feat, yes, but when you consider that it took the mightiest mages combined efforts to do that, and you figure that the atmosphere thus created is still substantially smaller than the natural atmosphere surrounding Mystara, it doesn't seem so incredible. My point? Well, I mainly state it as a matter of demonstrating that the Alphatians, while oft descrobed as being super powerful and mighty, aren't quite so mighty when placed in the proper perspective. Back in their home system, they were big fish in a little pond, but on Mystara, they are small fish in a huge pond. They are still more advanced and powerful than most on Mystara, true, but they shouldn't be considered quite as overwhelmingly powerful as sometimes portrayed. On another note, figuring the size of their home planet, I'd guess that we're talking numbers in the thousands (perhaps 10s of thousands) when considering their immigration to Mystara- as opposed to the millions/billions of Alphatians today. And all of them mighty mages (though centuries of interbreeding have diluted their powers). I'd think it is probably likely that the original Alphatian Council was actually 1,000 36th level mages, but- as has been proposed here on the list before- it is probably nowhere near that now, just consisting of the 1,000 most powerful magic users in the realm. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 21:20:25 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Mighty Empire...? At 06:53 PM 2/8/98 -0700, you wrote: >Doing a little research last night, for various reasons. Anyway, I was going through module M1: Into the Maelstrom, which, among other things, describes the original homeworld system of the Alphatians, along with a map of it. >Interestingly, according to the measurements of the 'breathable atmosphere limits' that were created when the Followers of Air surrounded their world in a bubble of air, the diameter of that sphere is approximately 2600 sq.mi. Meaning a circumference of just over 8000 sq. miles. >Your point is...? Well, given that the Alphatians' feat is described as being something incredible, and that they are said to have enclosed their home system in an air bubble, that means that their world must have been somewhat smaller than 8000 miles in circumference- less than half the size of Mystara itself! The Alphatians homeworld was a tiny satellite, smaller even than the moon of Patera! >Near as I can figure, the Alphatians had the one planet, along with two other satellite moons (Delthar and Gammar), which they enclosed within the air pocket when they expanded their home planet's atmosphere. An incredible feat, yes, but when you consider that it took the mightiest mages combined efforts to do that, and you figure that the atmosphere thus created is still substantially smaller than the natural atmosphere surrounding Mystara, it doesn't seem so incredible. >My point? Well, I mainly state it as a matter of demonstrating that the Alphatians, while oft descrobed as being super powerful and mighty, aren't quite so mighty when placed in the proper perspective. Back in their home system, they were big fish in a little pond, but on Mystara, they are small fish in a huge pond. They are still more advanced and powerful than most on Mystara, true, but they shouldn't be considered quite as overwhelmingly powerful as sometimes portrayed. Its a fine theory. I like to go back to old sources and try to pick meaning that was not intended to be there as well. But in this case I would disagree. The world area depicted in M1 is likely smaller than the original. Either the original atmosphere was depleted by defensive fire magics, or the atmosphere dispersed in some unknown way... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 22:16:20 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes >Plus I would expand that an say that Dwarves are out to exploit the earth for material gain which would not go down well with out highly religous Shadow- Elves. I don't see dwarves as out to "exploit the earth". First off this is a common motivation for dwarves in other fantasy campaigns. I think Mystaran dwarves should be different. Second, I believe the Rockhome gazetteer described dwarven motivations differently. However, Shadowelves are irritated with dwarves for mining soul gems. The dwarves are unaware of the significance however... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 22:18:42 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia At 12:13 AM 2/6/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi! >>Let me explain better...I see Alphatia as being in a constant decline almost from the moment they set foot on Mystara. Any society, in fact, that relies on slavery is going to find itself in decline. >And why do you think so? Besides the fact that every society will probably decline at some point! Oh, I suppose from the vague descriptions we have of their majestic world spanning empire of 2000 years ago. Their main love was philosophical thought...and they seemed to have some amount of warrior spirit at the time... Now most mages don't seem to care about anything beyond their own particular studies or, if they are into it, their chemical diversions. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:17:07 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ancient Languages I *always* cheat in my campaigns and use real-world languages. It makes my life much easier. The PCs always grew up in an area where the humans speak English, nearby they speak Dutch, Frisian, etc. It never really quite meshes perfectly, but it reduces my workload. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:23:23 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, Peter Balazs wrote: >>The German letter "sz" is normally not replaced by the two letters "s" and "z", but by "ss". >As a matter of habit I replace it with "sz" (maybe because many people make mistakes when writing my name!) One name for the letter is pronounced "ess-tset", after all... Actually, I've got an early 17th-century rapier manual that I'm translating into English, and the letter actually looks like a ligature of "sz" in that typeface. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 22:21:24 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Naval Tactics >I am also a Southerner. I was not referring so much to our own history as general history. Many people do not seem to realize that slavery covered the world at one time. The interesting thing that I note, it seems to me that every nation that could be said to have gone through a period of degeneration, practiced slavery especially toward the end.>> I agree and am in fact a Catholic as well (are we perhaps related??). At least I agree so far as American slavery eliminating itself. But I believe there have been other nations that did not eliminate the practice and continued to degenerate themselves into destruction. Basically I believe a society either rids itself of the practice or dies. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 22:13:54 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) At 04:27 PM 2/8/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi! >>Say, could you German speakers give us a list of some common phrases (with pronunciation) that could be used to flavor a Heldannic/Hattian area? >Sure! >But which commom phrases? Hmm, how about... 1) Greetings and welcome to Heldann. 2) Halt slime! Throw down your weapons and put your face on the floor! 3) Step this way please. 4) It is you! How about some good German names? How about some translations of fantasy monsters? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 05:20:23 GMT From: cpb@gatewest.net (Chris Paul Billows) Subject: [MYSTARA] - (fwd) Nemesis's Mystara/D&D Modules and Supplements For Sale I thought I would forward this to the list... I am hoping some of you will be able to buy this stuff so it can be added to the Classic D&D Renewal Project. Thanks! www.gatewest.net/~cpb/gaming/dnd/ On 3 Feb 1998 07:43:59 GMT, in rec.games.frp.marketplace nemesis@magpage.com (Jason Zavoda) wrote: 9100 AC1 The Shady Dragon Inn $12 9100 AC1 The Shady Dragon Inn $10 (slight wear) 9099 AC2 Combat Shield & Mini Adventure $10 (slight wear) AC3 Revenge of the Rusak $10 9156 AC7 Master Player Screen $14 (with 'Spindle' mini adventure) 9173 AC9 Creature Catalogue $12 AC10 $10 9350 Assault on Ravens Ruin $8 9023 B1 In Search of the Unknown $10 (pastel, wear) 9034 B2 Keep on the borderlands $7 9034 B2 Keep on the Borderlands $5 (slight wear) 9034 B2 Keep on the Borderlands $3 (cover wear) 9034 B2 Keep on the Borderlands $1 (Heavily worn) 9044 B3 Palace of the Silver Princess $16 9049 B4 The Lost City $14 9078 B5 Horror on the Hill $16 9086 B6 Veiled Society $14 9086 B6 Veiled Society $12 (slight cover wear) 9115 B7 Rahasia $10 (cover wear) 9261 B12 Queens Harvest $12 9190 B1-9 In Search of Adventure $38 (slight wear, 6 map pages phoyocopied) 9190 B1-9 In search of adventure $15 (Heavy Wear) 2004 Blackmoor (8th printing) $30 9097 BSOLO Ghost of Lion Castle $10 9117 CM1 Test of the Warlords $12 9118 CM2 Deaths Ride $12 9119 CM3 Sabre River $12 9119 CM3 Sabre River $10 (slight cover wear) 9128 CM4 Earthshaker $12 9154 CM5 Mystery of the snow pearls $12 9158 CM6 Where Chaos Reigns $12 (slight wear) 9166 CM7 The Tree of Life $20 9192 CM8 The Endless Stair $18 9210 CM9 Legacy of blood $18 (slight wear) 1011 D&D Basic Red Boxed Set $12 1013 D&D Companion Boxed Set $14 (slight box wear) 1012 D&D Expert Boxed Set $18 (Earl Otus cover) 1017 D&D Immortals Rules $8 1021 D&D Master Rules Boxed Set $16 9172 DA1 Adventures in Blackmoor $18 9175 DA2 Temple of the Frog $22 9175 DA2 Temple of the Frog $18 (edge of cover cut) 9191 DA3 City of the Gods $18 9305 DA4 Duchy of Ten $16 1037 Dawn of the Emperors $10 1037 Dawn of the Emperors $8 (corner crushed) 9284 DDA1 Arena of Thyatis $9 9296 DDA2 Legions of Thyatis $12 9193 GAZ1 Grand Duchy of Karameikos $12 (slight wear) 9194 GAZ2 Emirates of Ylaruam $15 9208 GAZ3 Principalities of Glantri $15 9215 GAZ4 Kingdom of Ierendi $15 9223 GAZ5 Elves of Alfheim $20 9227 GAZ6 Dwarves of Rockhome $15 9227 GAZ6 Dwarves of Rockhome $13 (slight wear) 9230 GAZ7 Northern Reaches $15 GAZ8 The Five Shires $20 9236 GAZ9 The Minrothad Guilds $30 9241 GAZ10 The Orcs of Thar $20 (slight wear, unpunched counters) 9250 GAZ11 Republic of Darokin $15 9246 GAZ12 Golden Khan of Ethengar $15 GAZ13 Shadow Elves $15 9306 GAZ14 Artuaghin Clans $12 2511 Glantri Kingdom of Magic $10 2006 Gods,Demi-Gods and Heroes (7th print) $30 2502 Hail the Heroes $12 1054 Hollow World boxed set $8 9303 HWA1 Nightwail $12 9310 HWA2 Nightrage $10 9311 HWA3 Nightstorm $10 9378 HWQ1 The Millenian Scepter $10 9332 HWR1 Sons of Azca $11 9339 HWR2 Kingdom of Nithia $11 9384 HWR3 Milenian Empire $11 9171 IM1 The Immortal Storm $14 9189 IM2 Wrath of Olympus $9 9207 IM3 Best of Intentions $9 9159 M1 Into The Maelstrom $10 9148 M2 Vengeance of Alphaks $10 9174 M3 Twilight Calling $10 9204 M4 Five Coins For a Kingdom $10 2513 Mark of Amber $159067 MSOLO1 Blizzard Pass $6 (no pen,partialy completed) Mystara Champions of Mystara $18 2509 Night of the Vampire $15 9050 O1 Gem and the Staff $8 (slight wear) 9108 O2 Blade of Vengeance $12 9255 PC2 Top Ballista $10 9277 PC3 the Sea People $10 9368 PC4 Night Howlers $11 Red Steel Boxed Set $15 Red Steel Savage Baronies $10 1082 Wrath of the Immortals $16 (slight wear) 9043 X1 Isle of Dread $6 (red cover) 9043 X1 Isle of Dread $2 (heavy wear) 9051 X2 Castle Amber $14 9056 X3 Curse of Xanathon $10 9068 X4 Master of the Desert Nomads $10 9068 X4 Master of the Desert Nomads $8 (slight cover wear) 9069 X5 Temple of Death $10 9081 X6 Quagmire $14 9079 X7 War Rafts of Kron $14 9127 X8 Drums on Fire Mountain $12 9129 X9 The Savage Coast $12 9160 X10 Red arrow Black shield $12 (slight wear, no pieces) 9188 X12 Skardas Mirror $20 9218 X13 Crown of Ancient Glory $13 9114 XL1 Quest for the Heartstone $9 (slight cover wear) 9157 XS2 Thunderdelve mountain $12 (slight wear) 9082 XSOLO Lathans Gold $12 9082 XSOLO Lathans Gold $8 (cover wear) If interested email me at nemesis@magpage.com Include a shipping address with any inquiries or Stop in at Oldye Tyme Antiques Lower Level Room 10 Main Street Newark Delaware *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 00:58:34 -0500 (EST) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - (fwd) Nemesis's Mystara/D&D Modules and Supplements For Sale Chris Paul Billows pontificated: >I thought I would forward this to the list... I am hoping some of you will be able to buy this stuff so it can be added to the Classic D&D Renewal Project. Thanks! www.gatewest.net/~cpb/gaming/dnd/ He has a good collection of stuff, but his price tend to be a bit high. Generally one can find better price if you don't mind wait and look around a bit. I haven't heard about the Renewal Project before, I thought TSR doesn't want any unsolictated scans. Did they changed their policy? If so, my guess is among all members of the list we should easily have everything on OD&D and Mystara, but probably only a few have access to a scanner and time to do the scanning. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:09:01 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - re: glantrian economy On Wed, 4 Feb 1998, Andrew Morrow wrote: >This brings me to my problem with the whole thing: Kol should have never become a Prince in the first place. >1- Glantrian nobles are supposed to be 9th level wizards who have graduated from the Great School or performed a great task for the Council. Kol fulfills none of these requirements. Well, it's just a question of Dolores pulling a few strings here and there... She's got Jaggar, Brannart, Morphail, Malachie (even if he doesn't know it) and a few others behind her. >2- How would he secure an Act of Enfeofment for the region? There arent even any Glantrian citizens there. I guess the Council decided that all those humanoids might make a nice addition to the country's population (cheap labor, good defense on the southern border, etc.) and decided to make them citizens. Obviously, that means Kol automatically became a prince, since he's the only one able to control them. >3- Four principalities have already been created since 1000 AC. The princes are likely very reluctant to create any more. Each new prince reduces the relative power of the others, both in the Council and in Parliment. Granting Kol a principality reduces their own power for very little return. He becomes a power onto himself (although a weak one) in Glantrian politics. Why would the Princes want such a thing? Perhaps each prince wants to control Kol more tightly (Dolores does at the moment). And this is much more easily accomplished if he is not an independent ruler. >I think the Princes would support the creation of new dominions, each fighting for locations beneficial to them and backing their own cantidates. The Parliment would also support this move, since each new dominion provides an opportunity for the current nobles to advance in rank and increase their power. >There is plenty of room in the free territories, why not use it? Comments? Ah, now there's something to ponder for the next Net Almanac... ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 01:01:44 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia Hi! >>>Any society, in fact, >>>that relies on slavery is going to find itself in decline. Sorry, I meant, where does this therory come from? >Basically I believe a society either rids itself of the practice or dies. Why? What about the Romans? The Greek? Of course they declined, but why should slavery be responsible? ************************************************************ Peter Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 00:54:21 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Hi! >Not at all. >It's true that the thing a Dwarf hates more than an Elf it's a Shadow Elf, And why do you think so? Is there any reference to it? >Obviously this is before the Oenkmar war, things may be much different now. I am talking even Pre-WoTI, during the GAZs. >>As a matter of habit I replace it with "sz" (maybe because many people make mistakes when writing my name!) >sz sounds Hungarian. I´m not exactly sure, if all the list-memebers are interested in that. But: My name ist Balazs, pronounced balash (of course the a is a german one, pronounced like in far), and it is Hungarian. I think during the WWII-occupation (Anschlusz) my family had to change the written form from Balasch to Balazs. ************************************************************ Peter Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 13:03:15 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes At 12:38 07-02-98 -0800, you wrote: >>Now it seems to me that Mystara should break this mold somewhat. I >like >>the idea of the elves every now and then referring enigmatically to "Lost Evergrun over the sea", but this does not have to mean that >every >>elven nation is in decline. I'm referring to the fact that there are at least >four major Elven cultures in the world of Mystara. Ex-Alfheim, Rafielton, The sacred city ( Aengmor/Oenkmar ) and the Schattenalfheims, What about the Wendarians, the two (small) clans in Karameikos (Vyalia and Callarii), the Glantrian clans, the Shiy-Lawh (sp?) survivors from Alphatia and the sea elves from Minrothad and the Water elves. Not to forget those elves living with the gnolls under a desert (forgot their name) or howabout those flying elves (mentioned in an old dragon magazine) and another clan/race that mixed with ogres (again Haldemars journey) and some additional clans in the HW. There seems to a huge amount of elven races and cultures, anymore got a complete work on all these elves and their wanderings? I always thought it a bit strange that there are so few dwarven, halfling and gnome variants compared to all those elves. all of whom have there own distinct cultures, and >the potential to share and learn from each other. >In one of my campaigns, the Alfheim Elves have joined forces with the Elves of Raifielton to battle against the Shadow Elf followers of Azanteotl. This unholy alliance has been cemented by the union of Tanadaleyo and her Alfheim counterpart, Doriath. The alliance is extreamly fragile and driven only by a desire to survive the hordes of evil. The rest of the world has turned a blind eye to the situation in the broken lands, considering it to be ' just those pesky Elves '. At the moment the Alliance are making a last ditch stand , and were tottering on the brink of defeat when reinforcements arrived from Rockhome ( If there's one thing a Dwarf hates more than an Elf, it's a Shadow Elf ). The problem is I'm not entirely sure how to end it all ( any suggestions ? ) The faeries might want to support the elves, as they had some of their homelands around Alfheim and would probably like to have their "Gates" restored. Elven clans from all around the Known World might want to have a word in this battle and volunteers might pop up at any time supporting one side or another. The Glantrian elves might want to have Glantri send reinforcements to help the Alfheimers and to get rid of the Broken Lands, while Kol would work against this support. Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:50:13 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ancient Languages In a message dated 98-02-08 11:44:40 EST, you write: << Does anyone else think about using RW ancient languages in their games? I'm thinking (obviously) about Latin in particular, but Sanskrit, Classical Greek, Anglo-Saxon (not really that old), Hebrew, and ancient Egyptian are all viable candidates. I know Thyatian names are Latin, but I'm wondering about the language itself; perhaps it was originally a Latin-type language, but over a thousand years it has evolved into something different. What say thee, fellow sages? >> Well for my Divergans I use a bastardized German for terms and such. I've always seen the Blackmoor as German based. Don't ask why. Since the Divergans are a product of Blackmoor technology, they bear some of the national traits of the Blackmoor. In the years since the GRoF, the Divergan/Blackmoor traits have evolved to their present state. Hence the bastardized German terms. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:58:14 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker On Thu, 5 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: ><< Excuse me, but are you suggesting that we men of Aalban are "Germany at its >worst"?? >If you are, then you are an Ethengarian pig. If not then I take back the pig comment... >Jaggar Drachenfels >> >Not a word, you dirty Glantrinian albino dragon... >Jamuga Khan Now, now, boys, let's not get too excited here... Have I mentioned that Averoignians are the supreme race of Mystara, much better than steppe horse-faces and xenophobic militarists? ;-) ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:19:26 +0000 From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ancient Languages Hi Glen, >... >Does anyone else think about using RW ancient languages in their games? I'm thinking (obviously) about Latin in particular, but Sanskrit, Classical Greek, Anglo-Saxon (not really that old), Hebrew, and ancient Egyptian are all viable candidates. Well, I do. I think it is much more interesting if the PC do have a possibility to find out what these "crystic texts" are really about. So it is up to the PC to get the clue. There is no die-rolling and hoping for a good result. I think this is the better way than using some hierogryphs nobody can decipher. It is much more work for the DM and it evaporated with a single die-roll. Wizzard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:19:26 +0000 From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D to D&D Magic (Need Conversion Help) Hi Jenni, >For spells, I'd like to know their Range, Duration and Area of Effect, plus a description of what they do, exactly. (For a few spells, like Magic Mouth, I have a rough idea of how they work, but getting more detailed information would be very useful) For Magical Items that are mentioned, any information at all would be useful. >... >6. 3nd Level Clerical Spells: >... >Bestow Curse (what's the difference b/t this and 1st level 'Curse'?) The 1st Level Spell Bless/Curse gives the target(s) a +1 TH (or -1 TH for their opponents). This is no really curse, but the immortals smiling down on the target of the spell. The Remove Curse/Bestow Curse is a "real" curse like falling off noses if lying and the like. >7. Miscellaneous Magical Items: >Pearl of Wisdom If worn by a cleric for one full month the pearl dissipates and the wearer gains +1 Wisdom permanently. >Ring of Free Action Wearer can´t be entangled. Full movement under water, in swamp, ... This means there can be no condition that will hinder his movement or reduce his actions. >Ring of Swimming Full movement under water and a higher speed while swimming. >10.Ultravison >Okay, its been a *long* while since I played AD&D, but I have no idea what this is! Infravision I know, but what the heck is Ultravision? Infravision=Heat - --> Ultravision=look above the ultraviolet spectrum of light. U-vision isn´t possible in the Underground due to missing sources of UV-radiation. Magical weapons that "produce" light negate U-vision in the consequences as heat negates Infravision. Outside (at night) up to 20 metres: conditions clear and up to 90 metres: conditions like dusk or dawn. If there are a lot of clouds it´s up to 15 metres and 45 metres. Sorry for not giving you further details. I just can´t find by AD&D CD-ROM and there´s all you want. Perhaps next time. Wizzard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #58 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:56:00 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #59 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com Status: U mystara-digest Monday, February 9 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 059 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - The Mightiest of Dragons Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Mighty Empire...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker Re: [MYSTARA] - The Mightiest of Dragons [MYSTARA] - Re: Alphatia Gaz [MYSTARA] - Earthshaker! Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Alphatia Gaz Re: [MYSTARA] - Re : The Twaelar ( Was : I need help on X1 ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re : The Twaelar ( Was : I need help on X1 ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Rory Barbarossa Origins ( Was : I need help on X1 ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re : The Twaelar ( Was : I need help on X1 ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re : The Twaelar ( Was : I need help on X1 ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Sentient Races on Mystara [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Alphatia Gaz Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker Re: [MYSTARA] - The Mightiest of Dragons ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:04:12 +0000 From: Thorfinn Tait Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Mightiest of Dragons Does anyone remember an old Dragon magazine article (issue 147 I think) called "The Mightiest of Dragons"? It details the Draconian Cluster, home planes of the Great One and the other dragon rulers, as well as giving some background on dragons and Immortality, and rules for Dragon Spirits. Specifically, it talks about how the Dragon Rulers are chosen, and indeed seems to imply that for dragons Immortality is a very different thing than for other "mortal" races. Indeed it states that when dragons are killed they return to the Draconian Cluster and take the form of Dragon Spirits. Now, the interesting thing is that all the cool things in this article are contradicted by the latest info on the rulers, in Wrath of the Immortals, which seems a bit of a shame, especially since the stuff in the article was far more interesting. For example, Pearl, the chaotic dragon, in the article has a home plane in which non-draconic visitors must live out their worst nightmares, which shape the reality around them. However, in Wrath of the Immortals Pearl is "more than a little crazy", and has populated her plane with inept adventurers who constantly try to steal her wealth but are too stupid and weak ever to manage - amusing, but not quite so useful from DMing point of view. Does anyone else think this article deserves to be resurrected? In my campaign, I am using certain aspects of both sources. The Draconian Cluster, for instance, is really cool because the Great One's home plane is only accessible from one of the other rulers' planes, and travelling magic doesn't work (IIRC). So you have to go all the way through one to get to the Great One. (The question is, of course, which one? ;-) This is interesting, especially since one of my PCs is (unknowingly thus far) destined to seek out the Great One. I wonder which path to his plane he will take... Thorf. PS - Is there a reason we have changed from putting [Mystara] ... in the subject line to [MYSTARA] - ... ? ========================================= "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost." Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk Unofficial Keeper of the Offical Timeline ========================================= *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:54:04 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Mighty Empire...? In a message dated 98-02-08 21:09:46 EST, you write: << Doing a little research last night, for various reasons. Anyway, I was going through module M1: Into the Maelstrom, which, among other things, describes the original homeworld system of the Alphatians, along with a map of it. Interestingly, according to the measurements of the 'breathable atmosphere limits' that were created when the Followers of Air surrounded their world in a bubble of air, the diameter of that sphere is approximately 2600 sq.mi. Meaning a circumference of just over 8000 sq. miles. Your point is...? Well, given that the Alphatians' feat is described as being something incredible, and that they are said to have enclosed their home system in an air bubble, that means that their world must have been somewhat smaller than 8000 miles in circumference- less than half the size of Mystara itself! The Alphatians homeworld was a tiny satellite, smaller even than the moon of Patera! Near as I can figure, the Alphatians had the one planet, along with two other satellite moons (Delthar and Gammar), which they enclosed within the air pocket when they expanded their home planet's atmosphere. An incredible feat, yes, but when you consider that it took the mightiest mages combined efforts to do that, and you figure that the atmosphere thus created is still substantially smaller than the natural atmosphere surrounding Mystara, it doesn't seem so incredible. My point? Well, I mainly state it as a matter of demonstrating that the Alphatians, while oft descrobed as being super powerful and mighty, aren't quite so mighty when placed in the proper perspective. Back in their home system, they were big fish in a little pond, but on Mystara, they are small fish in a huge pond. They are still more advanced and powerful than most on Mystara, true, but they shouldn't be considered quite as overwhelmingly powerful as sometimes portrayed. On another note, figuring the size of their home planet, I'd guess that we're talking numbers in the thousands (perhaps 10s of thousands) when considering their immigration to Mystara- as opposed to the millions/billions of Alphatians today. And all of them mighty mages (though centuries of interbreeding have diluted their powers). I'd think it is probably likely that the original Alphatian Council was actually 1,000 36th level mages, but- as has been proposed here on the list before- it is probably nowhere near that now, just consisting of the 1,000 most powerful magic users in the realm. >> But wasn't the Old Alphatian homeworld as decribed in Maelstrom portrayed as being post Alphatian Civil War? After the Air Mages combined their magics and unleashed a super duper spell that pounded the planet? If so, it is imaginable that the old planet was sanded down so to speak. The circumference would be dramatically less than before the winds began blasting away at the planet's surface. IIRC WotI makes mention of the Old Alphatian Plane. It says something to the effect that the plane is full of large chunks of floating debris. Each chunk large enough to support life (Alphatians that did not migrate). And each chunk with a spell created skyshield to allow for breathing. If this is so, then the Old World could be what is left after the winds bashed at it. The chunks could be pieces that were dislodged during the spell's effect. Still, nice observation. Yesterday, I pulled out several modules to compile a list of naval ships and stats. One of the modules was Maelstrom. I give it a looksee and see if I remembered correctly. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:59:49 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) In a message dated 98-02-08 23:11:47 EST, you write: << >But which commom phrases? Hmm, how about... 1) Greetings and welcome to Heldann. 2) Halt slime! Throw down your weapons and put your face on the floor! 3) Step this way please. 4) It is you! How about some good German names? How about some translations of fantasy monsters? >> Yeh, the monsters especially. I'd like to get some Germanic equivelants for the nasties a Heldannic Knight may raise an alarm to. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 09:40:08 -0800 From: Daly Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker At 03:58 PM 2/9/98 +0200, you wrote: >On Thu, 5 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: >><< Excuse me, but are you suggesting that we men of Aalban are "Germany at its >>worst"?? >>If you are, then you are an Ethengarian pig. If not then I take back the pig comment... >>Jaggar Drachenfels >> >>Not a word, you dirty Glantrinian albino dragon... >>Jamuga Khan >Now, now, boys, let's not get too excited here... Have I mentioned that Averoignians are the supreme race of Mystara, much better than steppe horse-faces and xenophobic militarists? >;-) And why are you so special, you miserable little man? Because you are rejects from another world? We destroyed a world! Top that.... Zandor, Imperial Prince of Alphatia *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 11:01:20 -0800 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Mightiest of Dragons At 03:04 PM 2/9/98 +0000, you wrote: >Does anyone remember an old Dragon magazine article (issue 147 I think) called "The Mightiest of Dragons"? It details the Draconian Cluster, home planes of the Great One and the other dragon rulers, as well as giving some background on dragons and Immortality, and rules for Dragon Spirits. Yes. It is basically an expansion of the material presented in the old Immortals set. I like it better than the new interpretation as well. I figure the "offices" of Pearl, Star, and Opal rarely change but when they do, that ruler's personal plane changes as well. So Pearl likely sculpts her plane to her wishes. So at the time of WotI she may have a plane as you described. But her predecessor had the plane more like the previous description. Does this make sense? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:08:11 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Alphatia Gaz Does anyone have any comments or suggestions for a template for the descriptions for each Kingdom? Daly has presented his take on Haven and layed out a suggestion of template form. Any additions? Comments? Suggestions? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 11:09:23 -0800 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - Earthshaker! In CM4(?) Earthshaker! a clan of gnomes operating an enormous, sky-scraper sized automaton were introduced. Then in one of the AC products (The Book of Marvelous Inventions) they were mentioned again. This time it was in relation to a device owned by Jaggar Drachenfels. It was an automaton which he stole from the Alphatians when he was traveling on the Davanian continent. Apparently the Earthshakers were quite numerous there and whole clans of gnomes operated them and went bounding across the landscape. The Alphatians apparently wanted the land or the gnomes or the Earthshakers and had created their own devices to acheive this goal. Jaggar foiled their plans and escaped with one of the devices. I am wondering if anyone developing Davania has placed these gnomes. Also I am tossing in the info for those who say "There are no gnome clans in Mystara!" :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 11:12:39 -0800 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia At 01:01 AM 2/9/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi! >>>>Any society, in fact, >>>>that relies on slavery is going to find itself in decline. >Sorry, I meant, where does this therory come from? >From my own studies in world history. Hardly any reason for anyone else to take up my assertion though...Perhaps I will write an essay on it and submit it to the list... >>Basically I believe a society either rids itself of the practice or dies. >Why? >What about the Romans? The Greek? >Of course they declined, but why should slavery be responsible? Because in my "observations" in world history every society that relies (note I said "relies") on slavery becomes complacent and lazy. They begin to believe that they are superior and that is when they are ultimately taken over (usually by one of their "inferiors"). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 12:37:14 -0800 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Alphatia Gaz I have a few additions I wish to slap on the Haven template. I would be very appreciative of any feedback... I plan on hitting one of the eastern kingdoms next I think. At 11:08 AM 2/9/98 EST, you wrote: >Does anyone have any comments or suggestions for a template for the descriptions for each Kingdom? Daly has presented his take on Haven and layed >out a suggestion of template form. Any additions? Comments? Suggestions? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 18:29:21 +0100 From: "Tomás Sánchez" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re : The Twaelar ( Was : I need help on X1 ) Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 98-02-01 07:38:54 EST, deckard@encomix.es writes: >>I browsed the cyclopaedia searching for merrow but didn't find any >>reference. Although, i've saw them several times in AD&D modules. I know i'm trying your patience but it would be nice to know how this mystara supplement described them. >See "Merman". "Merrow" is an alternate name of that race in OD&D (which is a bit confusing since a "merrow" is an aquatic ogre in AD&D). Thanks for the appointment. deckard@encomix.es *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 18:29:52 +0100 From: "Tomás Sánchez" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re : The Twaelar ( Was : I need help on X1 ) Andrew wrote: >I don't think the Twaelar are very keen on humans, and with increased Thyatian activity around the Thanegioth Archipelago (fighting pirates, enslaving the populace, polluting the oceans... okay, maybe that's a stretch). I could see the Thyatians wanting to lock down their hold on the islands, and that includes dominating the inhabitants of the region (including Merrow). Or maybe it starts simply (as such things often do) with a misunderstanding during contact, injuries on both>sides, and the inevitable retaliation. Whale hunting expeditions could have started it all. I can imagine the twaelar sharing a great love for those peacefull giants. Maybe, they saw human worst face contemplating with horror how their friends were sliced. Who could have guessed those sea colossus had a rational mind behind their torpid bodies ? Surely, clerics of protius will begun to negotiate with both sides as soon as the conflict begins. >>The Kna ? I've never heard of them. >Check out either the AC9: Creature Catalog, the Creature Crucible (essentially a reprint of AC9). They might also be in the Mystara Monstrous Compendium. >Essentially they are merchant fishmen that ply the undersea trade routes with their centipede-like mounts. Sort of the Minrothad Guilds of the ocean world. I own a creature crucible and i'll check it as soon as i can. Although, i will not hurry. You've depicted them well enough. >Glad to help. As suggested, PC3 is your best bet for further (general) information on the various sea races, and a little bit of specific info on Twaelar. It also has the rules for playing sea creatures, if you're so inspired. :) After reading all the information you have shared with me i've remembered something. There's mermen colony stablished on a sunken ancient city. One of those yavdlom spiral cities which encircled thanegia island ( X6 : Quagmire ). Could it be a twaelar outpost ? Thanks for your help, friend. deckard@encomix.es *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 18:30:07 +0100 From: "Tomás Sánchez" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rory Barbarossa Origins ( Was : I need help on X1 ) Matthew Levy wrote: >On Sun, 1 Feb 1998, Tomas Sanchez wrote: >>I've been working on a nice idea i'm sure you will all like. This unknown mage who promoted the dread expedition asked Rory for a Kopru to be taken alive. The mage told him about the distant island they were going to visit and asked Rory not to unveil the island horrors neither his own motivation. Rory masked the true nature of his trip and feigned it was a purely comercial expedition whose unique motivation was to evaluate the island riches. Although, the mage wanted to research a powerfull spell based on Kopru's charm abilities which could allow him to drain someone's memories. That would allow him to impersonate his rival and enjoy the position he had long coveted. Of course, Rory's destiny was sealed. >>Please, tell me your opinion about the scheme. And make any suggestions you came with. Although, ¿ Do someone guess who the mage could be ? >Lirdrium Arkayz. It all begins to fit together. Watch that seal on the prison dimension, I think the storm begins to brew. I can't see the connection. Although, there could be one more reason to thieve someone's memories. The Knowledge of the Radiance. That would make the number of suspects far more wide. Which arguement do you all prefer ? Has someone managed to find the right villain yet ? Tomás Sánchez Jr deckard@encomix.es *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 18:29:45 +0100 From: "Tomás Sánchez" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re : The Twaelar ( Was : I need help on X1 ) Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: >On Sun, 1 Feb 1998, Tomas Sanchez wrote: >>I've no idea where this Sunlit Sea is. Where it is located ? Who lives within ? >The Sunlit Sea is the shallow areas of the Sea of Dread that lie immediately south of the Known World, and in the areas around Ierendi and the Minrothad Guilds. It is essentially the continental shelf areas in that vicinity. This is where the major undersea kingdom lay- Undersea (which is how it is known to outsiders; the Tritons have their own name for it) is the major kingdom there, around the Minrothad isles. The Merrow make their nomadic homes in the regions around the Ierendi Isles, while the Kna are nomadic merchant traders who ply their wares all throughout the area. There are also some Nixies, Shark-kin (though they mostly live further to the south, where the continental shelf begins to drop off into the Abyss), Sea Giants, Water Elves and Kopru. In the southernmost regions near the Abyss (which is about halfway between the Sunlit Sea and the Thanegioth Archipelago) is the place where dangerous sea creatures dwell, notably the Devilfish. >All of this is really explained in depth in the accessory PC3: The Sea Creatures, which also provides rules for playing all of the above sorts of races ( save for the evil Devilfish ). Highly recommended. Thanks for your help, friend. You've left no doubt alive, as ever. deckard@encomix.es *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 18:29:34 +0100 From: "Tomás Sánchez" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re : The Twaelar ( Was : I need help on X1 ) Aaron E Nowack wrote: >On Sun, 01 Feb 1998 13:12:42 +0100 Tomas Sanchez >>I've no idea where this Sunlit Sea is. Where it is located ? Who lives within ? >The Sunlit Sea is the part of the Sea of Dread that lies around Ierendi and Minothrad. In 1000 AC, it is inhabitted by the nomadic merrow, the triton of Undersea, the Sea Giants, the Aquarendi, nixies, the kna, and the devilfish. For more info see PC3. Where can i find another reference to it ( Sunlit Sea ) ? Doesn't Ierendi or Minrothad Gazetteer state something about it ? >>The Kna ? I've never heard of them. >They're sort of fishmen. I'm not sure how to descrbe them since I haven't looked up their desc. in ages. Ther're the traders and pirates of the Sea of Dread. Thanks for your help. deckard@encomix.es *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 18:06:50 +0100 From: "Tomás Sánchez" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Matthew Levy wrote: >I was just reading about the original historical Barbarossa, a Moslem sea captain (pirate) of the sixteenth century whose real name was Khair Ed-Din ... he was greatly feared by Mediterranean Christians but was among the Turks who got their asses kicked at Lepanto in 1571. That's about all the article said, except that he was innovative in naval tactics, like beaching his galleys stern first as a defensive position for artillery ... Do you suggest we should develop a closer resemblance to Barbarossa's true history ? Maybe he could be from Provincia Septentriona. You said septentriona inhabitants descended from alasiyans. And some of the thyatians located there could well have given him this nick. What do you think about it ? Tomás Sánchez Jr deckard@encomix.es *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 18:30:20 +0100 From: "Tomás Sánchez" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Matthew Levy wrote: >I was just reading about the original historical Barbarossa, a Moslem sea captain (pirate) of the sixteenth century whose real name was Khair Ed-Din ... he was greatly feared by Mediterranean Christians but was among the Turks who got their asses kicked at Lepanto in 1571. That's about all the article said, except that he was innovative in naval tactics, like beaching his galleys stern first as a defensive position for artillery ... Do you suggest we should develop a closer resemblance to Barbarossa's true history ? Maybe he could be from Provincia Septentriona. You said septentriona inhabitants descended from alasiyans. And some of the thyatians located there could well have given him this nick. What do you think about it ? Tomás Sánchez Jr deckard@encomix.es *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 18:30:00 +0100 From: "Tomás Sánchez" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >>We should be able to develop our own theory about Old Rory. First, we can guess his origins by his surname. It seems Italian related. Which mystaran countries could he belong to ? Caurenze ? Sirechia ? Maybe he was working for a glantrian mage. We all know he was later killed by a mage ( no report about the assasin's origins were made ). >Just a quick note. In Italian Barbarossa means "Red Beard". There's a "famous" singer named Barbarossa, but the name is usually associated with pirates and the like. Obviously. I know what "Barbarossa" means. I'm from spain and my language and yours are closely related. Although, i had no idea there was a singer that used to be known by that name. I don't know how will i use such a valuable info but i'll do it for sure. *laughs* "Fifteen men on the dead man's chest, Yo-ho-ho, and a bottle of rum! Drink and the devil had done for the rest, Yo-ho-ho, and a bottle of rum!" deckard@encomix.es *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:25:52 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sentient Races on Mystara [LONG] << There were clans of Geonids that lived south of Blackmoor in ancient times. So they've been around a while. Probably related to Rockmen. >> Some genoids live under the Black Mountains (X4). Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:10:49 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Tomás Sánchez wrote: >Obviously. I know what "Barbarossa" means. I'm from spain and my language and yours are closely related. Although, i had no idea there was a singer that used to be known by that name. I don't There was also a German ("Holy Roman") Emperor of that name: Friedrich Barbarossa. This was back when the Empire included part of Italy. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:24:21 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Alphatia Gaz At 11:08 AM 2/9/98 EST, you wrote: >Does anyone have any comments or suggestions for a template for the descriptions for each Kingdom? Daly has presented his take on Haven and layed out a suggestion of template form. Any additions? Comments? Suggestions? They should be done in sort of a Gazetteer format; history, society, religion, laws, government, description of major towns/cities, NPC capsules. Then each one could have a 'miscellaneous' section, where the author can put in whatever touches he/she feels are needed (maybe a new magic spell or two, local folklore, etc.). Glen Sprigg *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:25:55 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) << Hmm, how about... 1) Greetings and welcome to Heldann. 2) Halt slime! Throw down your weapons and put your face on the floor! 3) Step this way please. 4) It is you! How about some good German names? How about some translations of fantasy monsters? >> 1) Herzlich willkommen! 2) Halt! Waffen fallen! Auf den Bauch legen! (Und keinen Mucks mehr!) 3) Wenn Sie mir bitte folgen wuerden. 4) Ach, Du bist es. Some Monsters: Drachen Elben Lebende Statuen Zwerge Halblinge Zauberer Ritter Raecher Priester Sturmtruppen (or Sturmsoldaten, but the abbreviation SS has a evil meaning) I'm sorry, but no pronunciationa at this time. Maybe later. :-( Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:02:29 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker At 03:58 PM 2/9/98 +0200, you wrote: >Now, now, boys, let's not get too excited here... Have I mentioned that Averoignians are the supreme race of Mystara, much better than steppe horse-faces and xenophobic militarists? >;-) *Ahem* Excuse me, gentlemen, but I don't see the point of this argument; the people of Karameikos have risen up from humble beginnings to surpass you all. We have tamed our land, and made peace with our neighbours. We also don't have kobolds running large parts of the kingdom. Long Live King Stefan! Alexius Danellaran, Knight of the Order of the Griffon P.S. If anyone knows the whereabouts of that scum Ludvig von Hendriks, or his henchmage, Bargle, please let me know, for I have been charged with bringing them to justice in our land. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:18:09 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Mightiest of Dragons At 03:04 PM 2/9/98 +0000, you wrote: >Does anyone remember an old Dragon magazine article (issue 147 I think) Actually, it's issue #158, in the Special Section on Dragons. >Does anyone else think this article deserves to be resurrected? In my campaign, I am using certain aspects of both sources. The Draconian Cluster, for instance, is really cool because the Great One's home plane is only accessible from one of the other rulers' planes, and travelling magic doesn't work (IIRC). So you have to go all the way through one to get to the Great One. (The question is, of course, which one? ;-) This is interesting, especially since one of my PCs is (unknowingly thus far) destined to seek out the Great One. I think it makes a bit more sense (and a bit more fun) to use the article, although a merging of the two concepts might be better; take the best from both worlds. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #59 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:03:45 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #60 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com Status: U mystara-digest Monday, February 9 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 060 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [none] [MYSTARA] - Setting Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Comments on "Sentient Races of Mystara" Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Sentient Races on Mystara [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 (Rory Barbarosa) Re: [MYSTARA] - Physics, Philosophy and Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Nightmare Dimension Re: [MYSTARA] - Sentient Races on Mystara [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Ancient Languages Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 13:03:04 -0800 From: Daly Subject: [none] An addendum to the Kingdom of Haven... What others say about the Kingdom of Haven: Minister Glorin Hammerhand of Rockhome: "Damned gaudiest place I ever saw! Humans should stick to things they know! Exterior decorating is not one of them. Darn walls make my eyes hurt." Master stoneworker Darin Greenfist of Denwarf-Hurgon: "Not bad. They had some dwarven consultants for the stonework at least. They got a little over-excited when doing the wall paintings though. Overall not a bad try." Gaheris of Landfall: "It is a cruel thing indeed to have such rich buildings so near...and yet it would be suicide to try anything. I hear a guy once tried to chip a corner outta one of them emerald towers and got pounded to death by a nearby golem--what's that? oh yes, they have towers made entirely of one single precious gem. They have ruby towers and emerald and sapphire--what? You say that's impossible. I agree. I never saw no gem large enough to cut a tower out of. But that's and Alphatian for you!" Larrickaltar of Sundsvall, A Hardball player's remark just before permanently gracing the Aaslan courtyard as a statue: "They have this game there. Its called Clubs and Spheres. Basically you hit this small dimpled ball with a club and try to knock it into a hole further down on the lawn. Its real simple I am sure. I never played it. Give me Hardball any day!" Another site of interest: The Council Club is a huge ritzy building whose decor is entirely earthtone. There is a huge Club and Sphere course outside and inside there are no less than 4 dining rooms. Each dining room itself is fairly small housing only 150 persons. There is a huge wooden fireplace at one end of each dining room with carved Alphatian Sphinxes on the mantel. Every flat surface has box-like painted designs in red, green, and brown earthtones. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:09:26 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: [MYSTARA] - Setting I've figured out my D&D campaign setting, it will use the GAZ stuff and anything from the AD&D stuff that isn't too revolting. Howevr, since I am a perverse and contrary creature, I'm not going to set it before WotI, I'm not going to set it during WotI, I'm going to set it AFTER WotI, but not in the "aftermath" period, no, nothing that tidy. I'm going to set it a nice long time after that period. My premise: The Magic Comes Back Background: The foolish disaster that climaxed the "Rad Incident", as Immortals now euphemistically refer to it, was not the end of world-breaking problems. The truce enacted by the Immortals was false and short-lived. Soon, the Spheres were at each others' throats. Immortals openly led armies against each other on the face of Mystara. Eventually, it became a free-for-all, with no Immortal loyalties of pantheon, Sphere, or individual history trustworthy. This is what happens when barely-controlled spoiled children with earth-shattering powers finally realize that only their own will limits them. The lower ranks of Immortals were virtually annihilated, along with a great deal of life on the surface and in the Hollow World. Hollow World cultures began to interact more than they used to, and it was this that ended the war. The Alphatian survivors led the counter-strike against the Immortals, employing arcane secrets that even they did not realize they knew. The mages of the old Alphatian world were better than even Immortals suspected. They created a "memory template" in the Alphation people, something that would be unseen to anyone who examined any single Alphatian, or even a group of them. One might say that it was "noise-encrypted". However, the Alphatian race-memory was flawed on Mystara. The original enchantment only would work if the Alphatians were living on the world upon which they arose, to prevent colonies on other worlds from taking advantage of its secrets. However, upon the complete destruction of Alphatia and the resurrection of the population, Mystara became the world upon which the Alphatians arose, not merely a place of refuge they fled to. The battles were fought in the Hollow World, on the surface, and finally in the Immortals' own home planes. Eventually, both sides exhausted, a truce was arranged and a negotiated settlement was in place. The terms were as follows: 1. The Immortals were to withdraw fully from the surface world. 2. Immortals were permitted to "restore" the Hollow World to its pre-war state, just after "New Alphatia" appeared. 3. New Alphatia agreed to re-submerge their race memory under an extremely complex set of conditions and to relinquish demands on the surface world. 4. The Immortals agreed to permit New Alphatia to exist unmolested in the Hollow World and to also permit more commerce among Hollow World cultures. 5. Magic was to be banished from the surface world. Magical creatures were permitted to migrate to the Hollow World if they so wished. Provision was made for a "Known World Preserve" to be established for those surface worlders who would not surrender magic. Almost to a man, the Elves went there. Commentary on the terms: 1. Why didn't Alphatia demand to be restored to the surface? It is speculated that it was a concession on their part to get the Immortals to agree to such stringent limitations. The Sphere of Entropy has been fairly spotty on its compliance with this term. 2. Yes, Immortals were PERMITTED to do the restoration, not required. Evidently, the Immortals realized that some sort of Mortal civilization beholden to them was in their interests--as a codicil, the vast majority of Immortals recruited since the War are Hollow Worlders, with the requisite set of attitudes. 3. The conditions of the memory submerge would fill a typical major US university library. Seven copies were made and hidden away. At least two of these libraries were fragmented and scattered in more minor conflicts. 4. The unmolested part was done, the "more commerce" part never actually got off the ground. 5. As you will see, something is going wrong with this provision, maybe the rest of the treaty is falling apart, too. An unknown (but distant) time afterward, civilization has rebuilt itself on the surface world. "Gods", "Dragons", "Wizards", and the like are the stuff of legend. Religion is based upon faith, and miracles are rare (but not unheard-of). Magic on demand, unknown except for those people who have sold their souls to "demonic forces" (Entropy). Then, some time, nobody is sure when, magic has started coming back. It appears to have re-appeared in different areas at different times. There are rumors of a "Young God" who is setting up a Golden Age. There are other rumors, not so pleasant. In game terms, this means that the highest level NPC mage in the PC's home region would be 3rd level or thereabouts. The PCs will be some of the most powerful mages around, even if they're 1st level. NPC Priests of the "old generation" will have very limited (if any) spellcasting ability, but those of the "new generation" (including the PCs) will have "normal" spellcasting ability. Of course, PC mages will have to deal with a bad reputation, at least for a time. Magic Items would pretty much all be "found"--no market in them at all. Magic User spells would be hard to come by, and *any* old book is a potential treasure. Of course, the players will know none of the real details at first. Another detail: There is a goddess known by many names in this "New Mystara", but her worship is widespread. Some of her tenets are: Magic is evil. Do not dig deeply in the earth, for evil lives there. The poles are evil, stay away from them. Ambition may be good, but excess ambition is evil. This goddess is actually the embodiment of the peace treaty. Yes, the treaty is a being, not exactly an Immortal, but not exactly *not* and Immortal. She is hardly pleased, to say the least. Eventually, the PCs will find themselves either fighting her or working for her. She doesn't actually believe that magic is evil, only that magic on the surface world is likely to lead to evil--i.e., it's too dangerous to allow to spread uncontrolled. Her worship has been fairly minor for some time, and she is usually invoked to counter the effects of "demons" and little else in the "present day". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:25:54 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) << sz sounds Hungarian. >> Yes, you're right. Adequate for an Austrian. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:51:49 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Comments on "Sentient Races of Mystara" Thanks for the information! When I get the chance I will update the file. I have one question re: you comments about the Ee'ar: >These winged elves would be more closely related to the avariel, I would think. what are the Avariel? I've heard the name but know little. thanks, m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:25:50 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) << I´m not quite sure! (ut I am a native german speaker, although from Austria!) >> Maybe we should fight this out... Better not. :-) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:33:17 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sentient Races on Mystara [LONG] On Mon, 9 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: ><< There were clans of Geonids that lived south of Blackmoor in ancient >times. So they've been around a while. Probably related to Rockmen. >> >Some genoids live under the Black Mountains (X4). Is there any more information on the Black Mountains in x4? I've been thinking about doing a writeup on them some time, so if you could share that info, it will be very much appreciated. Thankyou Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:47:07 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >However, Shadowelves are irritated with dwarves for mining soul gems. The dwarves are unaware of the significance however... Would they care if they knew? "Hey this elven lad walks over to me and tells me there's a dead fellow inside this gem(substitute "gem" with technical dwarven expression for a gem of a certain size, colour, mass etc..) that I found. Well, I had to knock him out, but I got the gem eventually." Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:58:45 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Lille My wrote: >At 12:38 07-02-98 -0800, you wrote: >>In one of my campaigns, the Alfheim Elves have joined forces with the Elves of Raifielton to battle against the Shadow Elf followers of Azanteotl. This unholy alliance has been cemented by the union of Tanadaleyo and her Alfheim counterpart, Doriath. The alliance is extreamly fragile and driven only by a desire to survive the hordes of evil. The rest of the world has turned a blind eye to the situation in the broken lands, considering it to be ' just those pesky Elves '. At the moment the Alliance are making a last ditch stand , and were tottering on the brink of defeat when reinforcements arrived from Rockhome ( If there's one thing a Dwarf hates more than an Elf, it's a Shadow Elf ). The problem is I'm not entirely sure how to end it all ( any suggestions ? ) >The faeries might want to support the elves, as they had some of their homelands around Alfheim and would probably like to have their "Gates" restored. Elven clans from all around the Known World might want to have a word in this battle and volunteers might pop up at any time supporting one side or another. The Glantrian elves might want to have Glantri send reinforcements to help the Alfheimers and to get rid of the Broken Lands, while Kol would work against this support. I must say I like this plotline. I've always wanted a Rockhome-Alfheim alliance, since it breaks a few of those cliche's about demihumans. Also I think that the Dwarves should get their chance to kick some Shadowelf butt after what they did to the Dwarves in the war about Oenkmar. As a result I'd like Alfheim to be restored, but I think the Shadowelves should get to keep Oenkmar. It will give them a more visual face in the world. And they might start removing the "curse" from those lands. (The 'noids would call it desecrating I guess) So Cthul, you're doing the Noids for the almanac, what do you think? :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 16:28:30 -0500 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 (Rory Barbarosa) On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Tomas Sanchez Jr wrote: >Do you suggest we should develop a closer resemblance to Barbarossa's true history ? Maybe he could be from Provincia Septentriona. You said septentriona inhabitants descended from alasiyans. And some of the thyatians located there could well have given him this nick. What do you think about it ? I think this is a fitting idea. I like it when there is some kernel of truth behind the characters and places of Mystara, in that it is then a mirror of sorts of our own world. Somehow it adds a deeper dimension to the whole enterprise that fantasy worlds from scratch don't always have. Sometimes I can't help but thinking that those original creators of the game, and in this case I guess David Cook or Thomas Moldvay, are amused if they ever see the degree of significance and great deal of effort that we as a group put into deciphering their original ideas! Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:47:42 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Physics, Philosophy and Magic On Fri, 6 Feb 1998, Peter Balazs wrote: >Hi! >>Actually, as a scientist, you should be willing to treat the wall as simply an ontological postulate which you use to make predictions about the world ... >Yes, of course, I should be willing to do that, but not in my scientific work for physics, because one of the axioms of physics is that there is something like a reality, you can talk about it, and you can even measure it! >one that can be dispensed with if it is inconvenient to your >>analysis (you might want, for instance, to talk about things at the molecular level, so that the "wall" becomes a superfluous concept, being nothing other than one way of cheaply describing the much more complex arrangement of organic compounds which form the wood - assuming it's a wooden wall) >Nevertheless the molecules are thought of being real! >... thus Einstein was able to completely dispense with what >>were previously considered "common sense" ideas of time and space in order >Nevertheless he stayed in the scientific system, light wasn´t something phylosophical, but something "real". It seems you've missed my point here. Of course, in all three of these cases the scientist is talking about something "real". My point was that all three are presumably discussing the same "reality", but they are using different languages to do so in each case. Except for the fact that we have an intermediary language to translate between these different views, we would never know they were talking about the same reality at all. Now, *within* each scientist's discussion of reality, the structure of their descriptions will depend upon not just the nature of "reality" itself, but upon the language they use to describe it (which is of course why scientists invent specialized languages to describe parts of reality that our ordinary language doesn't completely grasp). The problem lies in the fact that language ... even scientific language ... is metaphysically imprecise: It is utterly impossible for you to specify to me the entire set of real objects which will be the referent of the term "wall". The best you can do is give me relatively rigorous *guidelines* for using the term "wall" to discuss new objects I may discuss, but even these will ultimately depend on a chain of *other guidelines* which constrain my use of the words used in the formulation of the first set of guidelines, etc. etc. ad infinitum. The ultimate interdependency of this system of language can never be perfectly specified and thus all epistemology is ultimately rooted in very unscientific everyday consciousness/speech. It is this chain of reasoning which led Wittgenstein to the conclusion that "God" is just as real as "walls", not because there is some definite objective referent for either term (there isn't, even for the wall), but because we use the word "God" in our everyday language in a fashion which does not seem to be meaningless. This mode of thinking doesn't mean that we have to surrender the insights of physics or chemistry, only that we must also give some thought to the "logical structure" of our metaphysical, moral, and existential beliefs, rather than dismissing them as superstitious nonsense. With respect to Mystara, rather than trying to create an alternate system of physics that allows for magical powers but still omits metaphysics and questions of meaning (as much modern discourse about science does), we could perhaps try to agree on a "cosmology" that reflects rational and (relatively) intelligible structures in the nature of its metaphysics as well as its physics ... make its logical and mystical aspects inseparable, in other words. >>which leads us back to the inescapable conclusion that in Mystara, the DM this kind of makes sense, only there is so MUCH magic in Mystara, it's hard to figure out what is "normal". I mean shit, even GRAVITY is totally different in Mystara (it emanates from magical force fields, not mass). and what about the argument that something about Mystara specifically prohibits technology from working normally? >Right, but there is at least some kind of explanation for this type of gravity. Is not just" The Gravity is different!" I never suggested this. I agree that there should be some discernible logic to the Mystaran multiverse. I just don't think it should be science fiction-esque in character, since this is a fantasy universe. peace, m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:08:09 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) On Mon, 9 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: >Some Monsters: I guess a translation would be handy. Let me have a go at it.. >Drachen Dragons >Elben Elves >Lebende Statuen Living Statues >Zwerge Dwarfs >Halblinge Halflings >Zauberer Wizards? >Ritter Knights? >Raecher ? >Priester Priests >Sturmtruppen (or Sturmsoldaten, but the abbreviation SS has a evil meaning) I think the SS for the Storm Soldiers is intentional... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:46:04 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) << Yeh, the monsters especially. I'd like to get some Germanic equivelants for the nasties a Heldannic Knight may raise an alarm to. >> Something like: Alarm! Zu den Waffen! Wachgruppe vor dem Gebaeude angetreten, marsch, marsch! Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:16:30 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) << There was also a German ("Holy Roman") Emperor of that name: Friedrich Barbarossa. This was back when the Empire included part of Italy. >> Right! The emperor who drowned in a river in nowadays Turkey on a crusade. Jamuga Khan "A man who enters a river without his horse deserves his fate." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 00:17:21 GMT From: cpb@gatewest.net (Chris Paul Billows) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nightmare Dimension On Fri, 06 Feb 1998 15:45:59 -0700 (MST), you wrote: >The first of two thoughts that occurred to me last night- >This one presumes that one uses the information on Dimensions presented in the original Gold Box set: >As presented, the information in the Gold Box set has the Nightmare creatures and the Normals residing within the same Prime Plane, just in different dimensions (the subject of a recent discussion on the list). >This being the case, one would presume that the "Mystara" ("Aratsym"?) inhabited by the Nightmare creatures is virtually identical to the Mystara inhabited by the Normals. In which case the Nightmare creatures would have been affected by the whole Wrath of the Immortals in ways similar to the way the Normals were affected- as far as, say, the sinking of Alphatia ("Aitahpla"?) goes. >At least, this is how it seems to me. The question is exactly to what exent are the similarities between the two dimensional perspectives? Would the Nightmare creatures have their own "Radiance"? Would the Immortals have had to wage war on both Dimensional viewpoints in order to make their point? Instead of starting a war in the Nightmare realms, would Ixion have had to institute a period of peace and tranquility? >Mainly just some philosophical issues to ponder. I don't know that there is really an answer... though I'd love to see what everyone else thinks. >------------------------ >Cthuludrew, the Great Old One >(aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." >URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. What would happen if it was possible to bring the two dimensions together through some large portal? Would the two Dimensions detroy each other? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:16:29 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sentient Races on Mystara [LONG] << Is there any more information on the Black Mountains in x4? I've been thinking about doing a writeup on them some time, so if you could share that info, it will be very much appreciated. >> I'd have to check it, but I don't believe that there is much more than the name and the fact that they are fairly high and a frontier between the Great Waste and Hule. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:45:59 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes << I always thought it a bit strange that there are so few dwarven, halfling and gnome variants compared to all those elves. >> And I'm always wondering why so many people made theories about the elven relic, the trees of life, but nobody about the forges of power. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:46:03 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ancient Languages << Well for my Divergans I use a bastardized German for terms and such. I've always seen the Blackmoor as German based. Don't ask why. Since the Divergans are a product of Blackmoor technology, they bear some of the national traits of the Blackmoor. In the years since the GRoF, the Divergan/Blackmoor traits have evolved to their present state. Hence the bastardized German terms. >> Funny! I always thought Blackmoor were English. The name of the king, Uther Andrahar IIRC, sounds Arturian. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:21:41 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) At 13.10 09/02/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Tomás Sánchez wrote: >>Obviously. I know what "Barbarossa" means. I'm from spain and my language and yours are closely related. Although, i had no idea there was a singer that used to be known by that name. I don't >There was also a German ("Holy Roman") Emperor of that name: Friedrich Barbarossa. This was back when the Empire included part of Italy. Right. Federico Barbarossa in Italian. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:04:02 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] - The Fall of Alphatia, a chance for >>Unfortunately, most regions besides the KW (or OW, Old World, if you go by the new name) do not spark as much interest, and there aren't as many contributors to the NACE, the HW, the SC, Davania, etc, as there are to OW. >>Okay, that was a BIG hint to would-be contributors ;) Way ahead of you here! I've been mapping Davania (almost done!), and detailling new cultures, and some old ones (Varellya, Lhomarr, etc.). I'm also putting together material on the Milenian City-States for the AC 1016 Almanac.......wait 'til next year to find out :-) I've also added Cestia and Oceania to my portfolio (if none of the other Almanac people mind :-), so anyone interested in doing work there can contact me if they are interested: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (MML email address - I don't get on this one often) ganderg@tc.gc.ca (work email address - I check this several times per day) Anyone wishing to help me on all things related to Y'hog or Selhomarr can also contact me. I realize that not everyone uses these settings, but I notice that more and more people are starting to do so. There's a lot of history and ideas to be written, so to all who are interested - welcome aboard! Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #60 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 21:59:38 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #61 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com Status: U mystara-digest Monday, February 9 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 061 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Earthshaker! Re: [MYSTARA] - Earthshaker! Re: [MYSTARA] - re: glantrian economy Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Comments on "Sentient Races of Mystara" Re: [MYSTARA] - Ancient Languages Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Earthshaker! Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - Re : The Twaelar ( Was : I need help on X1 ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Mighty Empire...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes [MYSTARA] - Haven stuff [MYSTARA] - List of things Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Setting Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 21:53:27 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes At 00.54 09/02/98 +0100, Peter Balazs wrote: >Hi! >>Not at all. >>It's true that the thing a Dwarf hates more than an Elf it's a Shadow Elf, >And why do you think so? Is there any reference to it? I guess there's one, but I don't remember where... Anyway this does not prevent some trade between SE and Dwarves, as described in GAZ 13 (as you correctly pointed out). Gaz 13, page 54, gives more details: "Shadow Elves hate dwarves (...) because [they] have a notorious greed for gems, and to take gems is to steal soul. Dwarves are stealing our childrens..." And then: "There's also the matter of the plague, which came into Alfmyr in CY 802 (...)." My SE PC consider dwarves stupid because they like gems more than soul crystals :-) Hope this helps. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:46:06 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Earthshaker! << In CM4(?) Earthshaker! a clan of gnomes operating an enormous, sky-scraper sized automaton were introduced. Then in one of the AC products (The Book of Marvelous Inventions) they were mentioned again. This time it was in relation to a device owned by Jaggar Drachenfels. It was an automaton which he stole from the Alphatians when he was traveling on the Davanian continent. Apparently the Earthshakers were quite numerous there and whole clans of gnomes operated them and went bounding across the landscape. The Alphatians apparently wanted the land or the gnomes or the Earthshakers and had created their own devices to acheive this goal. Jaggar foiled their plans and escaped with one of the devices. I am wondering if anyone developing Davania has placed these gnomes. Also I am tossing in the info for those who say "There are no gnome clans in Mystara!" >> Legends, I would say. Probably a trick to get money from the Imperial Treasury. The device Jaggar got was built when the inventor left with the rest of the money and imperial investigators discovered that Davania was not plagued by Earth-Shaker riding gnomes. Jamuga Khan "A people living in yurts and riding on fast horses has nothing to fear from these incredible machines." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 16:18:42 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Earthshaker! On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >I am wondering if anyone developing Davania has placed these gnomes. Also I am tossing in the info for those who say "There are no gnome clans in Mystara!" I've placed them east of Green Bay, on the easternmost stretch of the Vulcanian peninsula. This jibes with a brief mention in one of Bruce's Princess Ark articles where the N'djatwa mention that the land to the east is filled with giant monsters that spend their days combatting one another, and that there were skyships like Haldemar's in the vicinity. Incidentally, Bruce also wrote the Jaggar's Transforming Gargantoid entry in the Marvelous Inventions book. And the location jibes with the "Ice Gnomes- 2900 BC" bit on the Hollow World migration map. For more info, there's a discussion of all of this we had sometime last year up on Marco Dalmonte's homepage. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 16:08:54 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - re: glantrian economy On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >Well, it's just a question of Dolores pulling a few strings here and there... She's got Jaggar, Brannart, Morphail, Malachie (even if he doesn't know it) and a few others behind her. This was one of my biggest problems, too. Aside from the fact that Dolores somehow managed to get herself elected Princess (which doesn't quite compute IMO), there's Kol. It was easy for Kol in PWA 1010, 'cause the other Glantrian nobles (Harald, Urmahid, Juliana- IIRC) were out and out ignored as having any vote. Which left Dolores, Morphail, Brannart, Jaggar, and Henri for Kol, with only Virayana, Carlotina, and possibly Carnelia to vote against Kol. With the later additions, it would probably be more like- Dolores, Morphail, Brannart, Jaggar, and Henri- pro Kol; Harald, Urmahid, Virayana, Juliana, and Carlotina against... Carnelia probably would be Con, but I could possibly see her being Pro. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:22:00 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) At 01:25 PM 2/9/98 EST, you wrote: >Some Monsters: >Drachen >Elben >Lebende Statuen >Zwerge >Halblinge >Zauberer >Ritter >Raecher >Priester >Sturmtruppen (or Sturmsoldaten, but the abbreviation SS has a evil meaning) >I'm sorry, but no pronunciationa at this time. Maybe later. :-( How about translations? :-) Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:25:00 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Comments on "Sentient Races of Mystara" At 11:51 AM 2/9/98 -0800, you wrote: >what are the Avariel? I've heard the name but know little. >thanks, >m@2 The Avariel are the Winged Folk, originally presented in Dragon #51, reprinted in Best of Dragon Vol. 3, and finally renamed Avariel and added to the Complete Book of Elves. Basically winged elves (although the article likens them more to half-elves). Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:17:29 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ancient Languages >Funny! I always thought Blackmoor were English. The name of the king, Uther Andahar IIRC, sounds Arthurian. I always thought so, too. Next to Bellayne, Blackmoor is, IMO, decidedly English. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:20:12 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) At 13.25 09/02/98 EST, JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: >Some Monsters: But you forgot the english translation. I'll give it a try: >Drachen Dragon >Elben Elf >Lebende Statuen Living Statue >Zwerge Dwarf >Halblinge Halfling >Zauberer ??? >Ritter Chocolate? :-) >Raecher Thief? >Priester Priest >Sturmtruppen (or Sturmsoldaten, but the abbreviation SS has a evil meaning) Italian comic strip (really... and it's very funny too) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:56:42 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes elves, shadowleves, dwarves snipped I agree with you on the subject of elves - they are a fascinating culture, and Mystara would be so much poorer without them. I myself would be opposed to any plans to have them all disappear from the world in the future, as is happening in the Forgotten Realms (yes Evermeet is on Toril, but it may as well be on another planet) and has already happened in Lord of the Rings. Mystara just wouldn't be the same without them. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:07:43 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Earthshaker! >I am wondering if anyone developing Davania has placed these gnomes. Also I am tossing in the info for those who say "There are no gnome clans in Mystara!" I have placed a small nation of gnomes in the Lost Valley region (a couple of tiny kingdoms, actually) - they are visible on the map of the area I have just finished. Hopefully it will go up by the end of this week (special note to you map lovers out there!! :-). I've placed another gnomish nation at the heart of the Ice Peaks in central-southern Davania - IMC this will be the nation of the ice gnomes. Beyond that, though, I'm planning a couple of underground kingdoms as well.. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 00:17:00 GMT From: cpb@gatewest.net (Chris Paul Billows) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones On Thu, 5 Feb 1998 18:17:51 -0500 (EST), you wrote: >On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Gianluca Tesi wrote: >>I was wondering if it has been already a discussion about the Old Ones. The idea the Old Ones are actually immortals that, having forfeited >Not all the Old Ones, just some of them. There are "elder" Old Ones. >>their status of immortality, restart a life as mortals and succeed in achieving immortality again really fascinates me. This has been outlined >Not just succeeding in achieving immortality. The character has to become the top dog in the Sphere, THEN embrace mortality, become Immortal again, AND become top dog in a Sphere AGAIN. It is at that point that the Black Globes come. How long do you think it would take for a mortal to attain immortality and then full hiearch in years? __________________________________ | |\ | Chris Billows | | | Check out my Gaming Memoirs | | | www.gatewest.net/~cpb/gaming/ | | |_________________________________| | \_________________________________\| *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 16:23:12 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re : The Twaelar ( Was : I need help on X1 ) On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, =?UNKNOWN?Q?Tom=E1s_S=E1nchez?= wrote: >After reading all the information you have shared with me i've remembered something. There's mermen colony stablished on a sunken ancient city. One of those yavdlom spiral cities which encircled thanegia island ( X6 : Quagmire ). Could it be a twaelar outpost ? Quite possibly. The mermen are quite widespread, in general (PC3 mentions this). The western Thanegioth Archipelago- where Yavdlom is- is closer to the Twaelar kingdom than to the Sunlit Sea. I see a couple possibilities: 1) Since, according to canon (CoM), X6 should be set in the past, when Yavdlom's people have mostly migrated to the Arm of the Immortals, this could have been one of the original Merrow outposts. The sinking of the lands and the changes there may have caused them to move eastward, to the regions of the Eastern Thanegioth Archipelago and the Sunlit Sea, or... 2) This was an ancient colony of the Twaelar (who may have once been more widespread as an Empire), that has since lost contact with it's homeland... 3) or it could just be, as you say, an outpost of the Twaelar. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 16:14:28 -0700 (MST)From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Mighty Empire...? On Mon, 9 Feb 1998 Alex295@AOL.COM wrote: >But wasn't the Old Alphatian homeworld as decribed in Maelstrom portrayed as being post Alphatian Civil War? After the Air Mages combined their magics and unleashed a super duper spell that pounded the planet? If so, it is imaginable that the old planet was sanded down so to speak. The circumference would be dramatically less than before the winds began blasting away at the planet's surface. In fact it was 'pounded down' with the remnants of the old planet becoming the asteroid belt in the center of the breathable atmosphere sphere. Some chunks (IMO) became the planetoids now known as Belthar and the shard that houses the Merchant's Guild. What I was basing my estimate of the old world on is the circumference of the 'breathable atmosphere', which should be larger than what the original planet's atmosphere was (otherwise, what's the big deal of the Followers of Air making this atmosphere?). As such, the old Alphatian homeworld, IMO, must fit well within the limits of the Breathable Atmosphere described, in addition to the satellites (IMO Gammar and Delthar, the only two spherical worlds in the module). - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 16:32:13 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= wrote: >I must say I like this plotline. I've always wanted a Rockhome-Alfheim alliance, since it breaks a few of those cliche's about demihumans. Also I think that the Dwarves should get their chance to kick some Shadowelf butt after what they did to the Dwarves in the war about Oenkmar. I think this is going to happen shortly; there have been allusions to it both in canon materials (PWA 1012), as well as elsewhere. But I don't know exactly when. There are some big things going on with the dwarves at the moment. >As a result I'd like Alfheim to be restored, but I think the Shadowelves should get to keep Oenkmar. It will give them a more visual face in the world. And they might start removing the "curse" from those lands. (The 'noids would call it desecrating I guess) >So Cthul, you're doing the Noids for the almanac, what do you think? :) The SE are going to be staying with Oenkmar for the forseeable future, yes. The 'noids are starting to get some brand new territories, since being kicked out (mostly) from the Broken Lands. Kol, as we all know, has his Principality, with it's semi-legitimate goblinoids. And, as of last year's almanac, there is an increasingly organized 'noid presence in Orcland, the mountainous territories to the northeast of Darokin. I've got some real plans for that region. :) - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:30:11 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Haven stuff >An addendum to the Kingdom of Haven... Looks great, Jeff! How about this for another attraction to Aasla: The Royal Topiary: The Royal Topiary was created in AY 1752 by the well-known magist Dendrilliar, whose affection for all things vegetable was reknowned. As a gift to Mylertendal (sp?), he ventured out into the world and collected every beautiful species of plant life he could find. To this day, Dendrilliar's creation astounds visitors. Thousands of steppeland daisies from Ethengar sway to magically-generated winds (another cause of the Haunted Marshes?), their thousands of colours gradually melting into each other - creating a swaying rainbow of hue and texture. Another corner of this ten acre garden hosts the most complete collection of carnivorous plants on Mystara - for their innocent savagery was seen by Mylertendal as another form of beauty. Giant venus flytraps grow along vampire roses, archer bushes, whipweeds, and strangle-vines, as well as the fabled Cestian gobbler, which Haldemar would also encounter in his own lifetime. There are also great collections of water-lilies, trees, mosses, and, a hedge maze of unrivalled size. Rumour has it that part of the hedge maze is supposedly made up of zzonga-bushes that have been altered so that they can survive on Mystara without protection. This has never been confirmed. The Royal Topiary is lovingly tended by a professional staff of 50 people (some of whom are druids), all of whom are well-versed in the more arcane arts of horticulture. For a mere 15 sp, anyone may enter the Royal Topiary, and experience the wonders therein. Thoughts? Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 9 Feb 1998 21:10:58 -0300 From: 3@giga.com.ar Subject: [MYSTARA] - List of things This are the things that I really need: 9173 AC9 Creature Catalogue $12 AC10 $10 Whats the difference between AC9 and AC10? 1017 D&D Immortals Rules $8 9193 GAZ1 Grand Duchy of Karameikos $12 (slight wear) What is slight wear? 9223 GAZ5 Elves of Alfheim $20 9227 GAZ6 Dwarves of Rockhome $15 9227 GAZ6 Dwarves of Rockhome $13 (slight wear) 9250 GAZ11 Republic of Darokin $15 This are the thigs that I interested in, but I don't know them very well. Can you send me a small description? 9044 B3 Palace of the Silver Princess $16 9049 B4 The Lost City $14 9078 B5 Horror on the Hill $16 9154 CM5 Mystery of the snow pearls $12 9166 CM7 The Tree of Life $20 9191 DA3 City of the Gods $18 1037 Dawn of the Emperors $10 1037 Dawn of the Emperors $8 (corner crushed) 9284 DDA1 Arena of Thyatis $9 9296 DDA2 Legions of Thyatis $12 9194 GAZ2 Emirates of Ylaruam $15 9208 GAZ3 Principalities of Glantri $15 9215 GAZ4 Kingdom of Ierendi $15 9230 GAZ7 Northern Reaches $15 GAZ8 The Five Shires $20 9236 GAZ9 The Minrothad Guilds $30 9241 GAZ10 The Orcs of Thar $20 (slight wear, unpunched counters) 9306 GAZ14 Artuaghin Clans $12 2511 Glantri Kingdom of Magic $10 2006 Gods,Demi-Gods and Heroes (7th print) $30 2502 Hail the Heroes $12 1054 Hollow World boxed set $8 9277 PC3 the Sea People $10 Red Steel Boxed Set $15 Red Steel Savage Baronies $10 1082 Wrath of the Immortals $16 (slight wear) 9056 X3 Curse of Xanathon $10 9068 X4 Master of the Desert Nomads $10 9068 X4 Master of the Desert Nomads $8 (slight cover wear) 9081 X6 Quagmire $14 9079 X7 War Rafts of Kron $14 9127 X8 Drums on Fire Mountain $12 9129 X9 The Savage Coast $12 9160 X10 Red arrow Black shield $12 (slight wear, no pieces) 9188 X12 Skardas Mirror $20 9218 X13 Crown of Ancient Glory $13 9114 XL1 Quest for the Heartstone $9 (slight cover wear) 9157 XS2 Thunderdelve mountain $12 (slight wear) 9082 XSOLO Lathans Gold $12 9082 XSOLO Lathans Gold $8 (cover wear) Thanks and I hope that we will be able to deal. Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 21:04:19 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) At 01:25 PM 2/9/98 EST, you wrote: ><< Hmm, how about... >1) Greetings and welcome to Heldann. >2) Halt slime! Throw down your weapons and put your face on the floor! >3) Step this way please. >4) It is you! >How about some good German names? How about some translations of fantasy monsters? >> >1) Herzlich willkommen! >2) Halt! Waffen fallen! Auf den Bauch legen! (Und keinen Mucks mehr!) >3) Wenn Sie mir bitte folgen wuerden. >4) Ach, Du bist es. >Some Monsters: >Drachen >Elben >Lebende Statuen >Zwerge >Halblinge >Zauberer >Ritter >Raecher >Priester >Sturmtruppen (or Sturmsoldaten, but the abbreviation SS has a evil meaning) >I'm sorry, but no pronunciationa at this time. Maybe later. :-( Ha! This is great! Now...how about a translation for the monsters?... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 21:14:05 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes At 03:47 PM 2/9/98 +0100, you wrote: >On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >>However, Shadowelves are irritated with dwarves for mining soul gems. The dwarves are unaware of the significance however... >Would they care if they knew? Yes. "Hey this elven lad walks over to me and tells me his papa is inside this gem(substitute "gem" with technical dwarven expression for a gem of a certain size, colour, mass etc..) that I found. Well, I found myself touched by his devotion to his family and ancestors so I gave the gem to him and sent him on his way." I believe a dwarf's devotion to family is more important than any mere gem. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 21:11:03 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Setting >My premise: The Magic Comes Back I like it. But I hope the pc's actually have a hand in bringing the magic back... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 21:19:50 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) >>Ritter >Knights? Thank you very much, my friend. Now tell me...would "Ritterburg" be translated as Knighttown? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 21:51:17 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes At 07:56 PM 2/9/98 -0500, you wrote: >elves, shadowleves, dwarves snipped >I agree with you on the subject of elves - they are a fascinating culture, and Mystara would be so much poorer without them. I myself would be opposed to any plans to have them all disappear from the world in the future, as is happening in the Forgotten Realms (yes Evermeet is on Toril, but it may as well be on another planet) and has already happened in Lord of the Rings. >Mystara just wouldn't be the same without them. Indeed, I think this makes our world unique. Young vibrant elven nations and a magical golden age in the now! rather than the distant past. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:28:21 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia Hi! >>From my own studies in world history. Hardly any reason for anyone else to >take up my assertion though...Perhaps I will write an essay on it and submit it to the list... I woul dbe very interested to read that! >Because in my "observations" in world history every society that relies (note I said "relies") on slavery becomes complacent and lazy. They begin to believe that they are superior and that is when they are ultimately taken over (usually by one of their "inferiors"). I think I begin to understand xour point! ************************************************************ Peter Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #61 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:16:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #62 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Tuesday, February 10 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 062 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker Re: [MYSTARA] - Re : The Twaelar ( Was : I need help on X1 ) [MYSTARA] - RE: Cynidicean info Re: [MYSTARA] - Haven stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Rory Barbarossa Origins ( Was : I need help on X1 ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 (Rory Barbarosa) Re: [MYSTARA] - Witches spells & powers Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker Re: [MYSTARA] - The Mightiest of Dragons Re: [MYSTARA] - re: glantrian economy [MYSTARA] - The Endless Stair Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes [MYSTARA] - Haven of Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - The Endless Stair [MYSTARA] - Greater Gargoyles (PC class -LONG) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:30:17 -0600 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker On Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:02:29 -0500 (EST) Glen Sprigg writes: >At 03:58 PM 2/9/98 +0200, you wrote: >>Now, now, boys, let's not get too excited here... Have I mentioned >that >>Averoignians are the supreme race of Mystara, much better than steppe horse-faces and xenophobic militarists? >>;-) >*Ahem* Excuse me, gentlemen, but I don't see the point of this argument; the >people of Karameikos have risen up from humble beginnings to surpass you >all. We have tamed our land, and made peace with our neighbours. We also >don't have kobolds running large parts of the kingdom. Long Live King Stefan! >Alexius Danellaran, Knight of the Order of the Griffon Ahem, yourself! You Karmeikans have it soft. Hasve you been chased by devilfish halfway across the world? Have you had to deal with a whole city of beholders? Didn't think so. Us triton are so superior to any of you humans. Aharon, triton mage and historian Hmm, this thread's title needs changing. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:33:50 -0600 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re : The Twaelar ( Was : I need help on X1 ) On Mon, 09 Feb 1998 18:29:34 +0100 "Tomás Sánchez" writes: >Aaron E Nowack wrote: >>On Sun, 01 Feb 1998 13:12:42 +0100 Tomas Sanchez >>>I've no idea where this Sunlit Sea is. Where it is located ? Who lives within ? >>The Sunlit Sea is the part of the Sea of Dread that lies around Ierendi and Minothrad. In 1000 AC, it is inhabitted by the nomadic merrow, the triton of Undersea, the Sea Giants, the Aquarendi, >nixies, >>the kna, and the devilfish. For more info see PC3. >Where can i find another reference to it ( Sunlit Sea ) ? Doesn't Ierendi or Minrothad Gazetteer state something about it ? Nope. PC3 came after the Gazzeteer series was finished, and the sea peoples wern't mentioned again by any canon source :( However one of my long range projects is to get together a PWA-style writeup of the Sunlit Sea area. (right after the rest of the timeline and perhaps War Machine statistics for the armies of Undersea). _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:39:32 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: [MYSTARA] - RE: Cynidicean info >Did whoever proposed the Alphatian theory also propose the Zzonga addiction theory? That could explain their state. Underground adapted Zzonga... IMHO the Cynidicean hallucinogens are not connected to Zzonga. The underground dwellers are living on native fungi (which probably have psilocybin-like effects) whereas Zzonga is an above-ground fruit, a totally different organism from a fungus, and its effect is much more similar to a narcotic than a hallucinogen. BTW, I posted this to the whole list because I wanted to know, has anybody done any work on compiling Mystaran drugs or herbal medicines? There seem to be quite a variety of psychoactive plant and fungus derivatives peculiar to Mystara (amber lotus, etc.) ... a list of these and their availability from apothecary shops in various cities would be really interesting. Also, what exactly is Pipeweed? the official canon of course suggests it is tobacco, but couldn't it also be cannabis? (don't anybody tell your mom or they'll think we're all devil-worshipping reefer hounds). peace, m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 21:56:54 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Haven stuff >The Royal Topiary is lovingly tended by a professional staff of 50 people (some of whom are druids), all of whom are well-versed in the more arcane arts of horticulture. For a mere 15 sp, anyone may enter the Royal Topiary, and experience the wonders therein. >Thoughts? YES! How about the rumor of a fantastic treasure hidden somewhere in the garden maze? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:37:24 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) I think you're thinking of Richard the Lionheart, King of England in the late 12th century. m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Mon, 9 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: ><< There was also a German ("Holy Roman") Emperor of that name: Friedrich >Barbarossa. This was back when the Empire included part of Italy. >> >Right! The emperor who drowned in a river in nowadays Turkey on a crusade. >Jamuga Khan >"A man who enters a river without his horse deserves his fate." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:32:35 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rory Barbarossa Origins ( Was : I need help on X1 ) >>>Please, tell me your opinion about the scheme. And make any suggestions you came with. Although, ¿ Do someone guess who the mage could be ? >>Lirdrium Arkayz. It all begins to fit together. Watch that seal on the prison dimension, I think the storm begins to brew. >I can't see the connection. Although, there could be one more reason to thieve someone's memories. The Knowledge of the Radiance. That would make the number of suspects far more wide. Which arguement do you all prefer ? Has someone managed to find the right villain yet ? Lirdrium Arkayz is the sole survivor of the lost city of Tuma (B8), and a direct descendant of Arkenas, the Alphatian expatriate mage who encoded information about the radiance into Tuman law (just as you suggest). Somehow, this knowledge led to a conflict between Arkayz, the Kopru, and the Glantrians, the details of which are still beginning to emerge from the historical record. m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:23:04 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 (Rory Barbarosa) On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, DJ Sahlas wrote: >On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Tomas Sanchez Jr wrote: >>Do you suggest we should develop a closer resemblance to Barbarossa's true history ? Maybe he could be from Provincia Septentriona. You said septentriona inhabitants descended from alasiyans. And some of the thyatians located there could well have given him this nick. What do you think about it ? >I think this is a fitting idea. I like it when there is some kernel of truth behind the characters and places of Mystara, in that it is then a mirror of sorts of our own world. Somehow it adds a deeper dimension to the whole enterprise that fantasy worlds from scratch don't always have. All this is well and good but what about Barbarossa's first name, Rory? Wouldn't that seem to indicate Celtic origins? My guess is he was of Dunael descent from the IoD, but probably grew up somewhere like Ierendi (which was after all populated by ex-slaves, probably many from the IoD who had been captured by the Thyatins, just like Australia was colonized by Irish and Scottish convicts brought there by the English). m@2 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:22:12 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Witches spells & powers On Sat, 7 Feb 1998, DM wrote: >Clearly, Carmina would have lost at least 4 points of Cha, and Isabella and Szasza at least 6, but they have really high Charisma scores! How can this be? I know there's another power of the witches that increases the Charisma called "Witches' Charm" (second circle), but it lasts only for 1 turn per level of the witch and affects only those within 300' of the witch, so it's not the cause of the problem. Maybe somebody forgot something when writing down those scores? How's the thing handled in G:KoM? (though i doubt it wil be any useful as a source..) I'd probably disregard that Cha loss rule, since most witches you mentioned don't fit the image of ugly hags. I think that witches can also be beautiful women, sort of like enchantresses. Perhaps witches only lose Charisma when actively pursuing the "hag image". Another possibility might be that the witches you mentioned have used magic to restore their Cha or to appear more beautiful than they really are. Imagine the surprise of Henri d'Ambreville when he discovers what his beloved Carmina *really* looks like. :) >Sidenote 1: since Szasza is now a vampiress, i think she's stuck at 3rd level as a witch (she cannot go to Glantri city to receive further training as per rules due to her nature!) Why can't she go to Glantri City? Prince Morphail certainly seems able to do so. Also, why does she have to go there? Can't she learn the abilities herself? ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:57:41 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, Peter Balazs wrote: >>( If there's one thing a Dwarf hates more than an Elf, it's a Shadow Elf ). >I always had the opinion, that the dwarves could get along with shadow elves pretty well. At least they bargained sometimes. Am I wrong? Hey, remember that dwarf miner in GAZ13, Zindar? Maybe he could be a mediator between dwarves and SEs. OTOH, he *did* abandon the dwarven way of life, so maybe not. ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:11:11 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, Peter Balazs wrote: >>Say, could you German speakers give us a list of some common phrases (with pronunciation) that could be used to flavor a Heldannic/Hattian area? >Sure! >But which commom phrases? Well, something like "I'm going to rip your heart out and eat it, you foreign infidel pig!" Probably a common phrase for Hattians, don't you think? :) ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:25:01 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >>Now, now, boys, let's not get too excited here... Have I mentioned that Averoignians are the supreme race of Mystara, much better than steppe horse-faces and xenophobic militarists? >>;-) >And why are you so special, you miserable little man? Because you are rejects from another world? We destroyed a world! Top that.... >Zandor, Imperial Prince of Alphatia Oh yeah?! Well, we would have destroyed Mystara, if you bumbling blue-faces haven't interfered! Fortunately, now that you're gone, we can go on doing that :) ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:32:34 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Glen Sprigg wrote: >*Ahem* Excuse me, gentlemen, but I don't see the point of this argument; the people of Karameikos have risen up from humble beginnings to surpass you all. We have tamed our land, and made peace with our neighbours. We also don't have kobolds running large parts of the kingdom. Long Live King Stefan! Karameikos? Ah yes, I think it was that backwater place somewhere in the south. Sure, we may have kobolds running a part of our country, but *you* don't have anyone running large parts of your country! Okay, I'll stop the jests now, I promise (at least unless I see something too good to pass up) :) ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:34:24 -0600 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Mightiest of Dragons I went and checked the TSR site for this article. It's online if you want to read through it in #158. Not being one that likes clicking through text articles online, does anyone have a list of articles from Dragon dealing with some aspects of Mystara we might could pull from the TSR site? >Actually, it's issue #158, in the Special Section on Dragons. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:53:49 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - re: glantrian economy On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: >It was easy for Kol in PWA 1010, 'cause the other Glantrian nobles (Harald, Urmahid, Juliana- IIRC) were out and out ignored as having any vote. Which left Dolores, Morphail, Brannart, Jaggar, and Henri for Kol, with only Virayana, Carlotina, and possibly Carnelia to vote against Kol. With the later additions, it would probably be more like- Dolores, Morphail, Brannart, Jaggar, and Henri- pro Kol; Harald, Urmahid, Virayana, Juliana, and Carlotina against... Carnelia probably would be Con, but I could possibly see her being Pro. I think I calculated the votes and got the result of Kol being elected. Let's see: For: Dolores, Henri, Jaggar, Morphail, Brannart, Malachie, Carnelia (just to create trouble for Erewan) Against: Carlotina, Jherek, Urmahid Abstain: Harald, Juliana (what do they care?) I don't remember the exact vote counts, but they should be enough. On a related note, what do you think of Brannart McGregor? He was unfortunately almost ignored by TSR, even though IMO he could be seen as a master plotter (sort of a worldly equivalent of Thanatos). IMC he has spies in almost every other noble's court, gathering information which could lead to him getting more magical knowledge and discovering more of the Radiance. The fact that he appears uncaring about the rest of the world could be a masterful disguise to conceal his real plans - the eventual ascension to Immortality and replacing Rad as the ruler/Immortal of Glantri. IMO he may suspect the Rad/Ambreville connection (in fact, any idiot would suspect it, since *both* Ambreville *and* Rad disappeared at the same time, and *no* other nobles disappeared at that time). I also think Brannart is perfectly aware of Synn's little plot and is content to let her do her stuff; since his enemy Etienne's attention will be likely focused on Synn right now, Brannart can execute his plots in relative safety. The Brannart-Etienne enmity also ties well into the canon material, as they originally came from Laterre (talk about old rivalries). Thoughts? ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers."** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:46:04 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Morrow Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Endless Stair Just wondering- where would you folks place CM8 The Endless Stair? It claims to be somewhere in Glantri, but there really isn't much space off the beaten path to put it. How about an alternate location- maybe Norwold? Darokin? - -III *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:59:13 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) << > Zauberer Wizards? ! >Ritter Knights? ! >Raecher ? >> Avenger Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:21:05 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >>>Ritter >>Knights? >Thank you very much, my friend. Now tell me...would "Ritterburg" be translated as Knighttown? Since JamungaKhan confirmed my translations I would say you are correct. sincerely HŒvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:50:56 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >At 03:47 PM 2/9/98 +0100, you wrote: >>On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >>>However, Shadowelves are irritated with dwarves for mining soul gems. The dwarves are unaware of the significance however... >>Would they care if they knew? >Yes. >"Hey this elven lad walks over to me and tells me his papa is inside this gem(substitute "gem" with technical dwarven expression for a gem of a certain size, colour, mass etc..) that I found. Well, I found myself touched by his devotion to his family and ancestors so I gave the gem to him and sent him on his way." >I believe a dwarf's devotion to family is more important than any mere gem. Hey I like this! I take back my previous argument. This reminds me that Dwarves and Greed is a stereotype we should rid Mystara of. Sincerely HŒvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:58:28 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >At 07:56 PM 2/9/98 -0500 Geoff Gander wrote: >>elves, shadowleves, dwarves snipped >>I agree with you on the subject of elves - they are a fascinating culture, and Mystara would be so much poorer without them. I myself would be opposed to any plans to have them all disappear from the world in the future, as is happening in the Forgotten Realms (yes Evermeet is on Toril, but it may as well be on another planet) and has already happened in Lord of the Rings. >>Mystara just wouldn't be the same without them. >Indeed, I think this makes our world unique. Young vibrant elven nations and a magical golden age in the now! rather than the distant past. I agree. This will help developing Mystara into a more unique setting aswell. Im all pro Alfheim back to the surface elves and Oenkmar to the Shadowelves. Haavard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:08:25 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Haven of Alphatia J. Daly wrote: < Important Personages: Mylertendal (M36, L, Alphatia) is the oldest NPC Alphatian ever listed in canon material.>> Just one question here: you assume that she's still living after the Week of No Magic, then (remember her age)? < Familiar quote: "Though a mage, I was never a man to rely on magic.">> Well, why should he be a mage then? I mean, if he's a great worker and doesn't like to rely on magic, i doubt he'd ever followed the path of wizardry. Why not making him a Cleric of Ordana or better of Terra or Djaea (since i feel Ordana is more linked to forests)? On this topic, i think we can identify three types of theism in Mystara mirroring the RW beliefs: Sylvan Theism (typical of hunters/gatherers tribes -Ordana is the Immortal worshipped) Agrestic Theism (typical of sedentary tribes of farmers -Terra or Djaea are the Immortals worshipped here.) Pastoral Theism (typical of nomad tribes of herders -people worship the uranian/celestial manifestations, so maybe Ixion/Sun, Asterius/Moon and Odin/Sky or Thor/Storms could be the powers revered). I liked the overview of the country you presented here. No other comment except this idea: what about adding a character based on HPL's Richard Upton Pickman? Just to show also Aasla's darker side.. ;) Also a last question: how did they manage to build that astral highway you invented? My only idea is that they probably cast gate to an x point in the astral from different locations (cities) thus linking them all via common nexi (plural of nexus?), and rendered them permanent using Wishes. The cost for creating and mantaining it is zero this way (building permanent Teleport pods would have cost much more). IF it's so, then what happens in the DoD? The gates disappear and reapper at the beginning of the new day thanx to the Wish? DM "COWABUNGA!" common tortles' battlecry *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:11:12 EST From: Neal Daskal Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Endless Stair I don't like the Glantrian prohibition on clerics. I found it an annoying distraction from module storylines to figure out how to work it in. So IMC, I avoided setting modules in Glantri (IIHITDO I might retcon the world so there is no ban). So I set it in Darokin on the trade route between Darokin and Selenica, south of Alfheim. Wrapped it around CM9 Legacy of Blood so it worked okay. I saw nothing about the story that made it have to happen in Glantri, or on the Known World for that matter. Norwold would work, too. >Just wondering- where would you folks place CM8 The Endless Stair? It claims to be somewhere in Glantri, but there really isn't much space off the beaten path to put it. How about an alternate location- maybe Norwold? Darokin? >-III *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:15:26 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Greater Gargoyles (PC class -LONG) Hi guys! Today i wanna talk about this PC class i invented based on the cartoon series gargoyles. I designed it some months ago and revised it in January. It's on my webpage now but i feel it would be better to post it here again to know your opinion. Just read it and tell me what should be changed and why, so i might be able to get a broader view of the thing. As usual, thanx for your time. DM "Sorry: i just couldn't resist" Thanatos at his trial for the corruption of the Nithians "Nithians? Never heard of them!" Ranivorus at the same trial KARGOYLE (GREATER GARGOYLE) A new D&D/AD&D Class for Mystara By Marco Dalmonte (Special Thanks to Lars Herrmann and Håvard R. Faanes) Origins of the Greater Gargoyles As told by Professor von Berg of the Great School of Magic The origins of the beings known as Kargoyles are lost in the mists of time. These mythical creatures have sometimes been encountered by daring adventurers and explorers inside the most shunned and ancient castles or the most remote areas of the world. Nevertheless, nobody has ever shown a concrete proof of their existence so far, and the rumors about their creation are merely speculations spread by sages, seers, fools and drunkyards. Nowadays, nobody can say for sure who is right and who is wrong, and for the sake of correctness i will list all the current theories about these legendary creatures. There are however some points that all the legends have in common: the kargoyles are not constructs but living beings (thus they must eat and can reproduce like humans, even though they lay eggs according to some rumors), but probably something went wrong with their creation or they earned the enmity of a powerful being and so they became cursed with the Stone Sleep: like the undead, they cannot live under the sun. They are living beings with a strong resemblance to gargoyles, but they cannot really communicate with gargoyles. The current theories about the Kargoyles' creation are four: 1. Kagyar's Experiment: they were created by Kagyar as the first experiment to design a durable and tough race about 100-200 years before the creation of dwarves (Kogolor). Then the Blackmoor catastrophe altered their biological structure and magical essence magical and it turned out that the sunrays petrified them. So Kagyar transported most of them in the Hollow World, where the Red Sun radiations didn't affect them (this is also explains why it is so rare to meet a greater gargoyle). Those who remained on the surface eventually became the Kargoyles, and learnt to live with their curse they now call the Stone Sleep. Up to now, very few know of their existence, mostly Kagyar's devout followers (dwarves). Probably surviving Kargoyles live in Rockhome. 2. The Ultimate Guard: they were created by a sorcerer of Glantri who was the Runemaster 300 years ago. He altered the existing un-intelligent gargoyles to make them intelligent beings and use them as superb guards and retainers. He wanted to create a new race and indeed he succeeded, save for the fact that he didn't expect the sunrays could petrify them. However, since he most needed them to guard his tower, he employed them as nightguards, and they proved highly successful. One fateful day the Runemaster was defeated in a duel by another Cryptomancer and his tower nearly destroyed. Without their master, the kargoyles left the tower and scattered to the four corners of Glantri, living in clans and hiding from the greedy eyes of the other wizards. Another version of this theory has the kargoyles stay in the ruins of the tower out of fealty towards their former master. They now live inside it and guard it awaiting for the Master to return... 3. The Sin of Kargol: they have been created by Kagyar when he slept with Mother Earth in the beginning of times. The first kargoyles were the sons of Kagyar and lived with their father in his Mighty Fortress in the Upper Skies, where they helped him forge weapons and craft superb items. Yet one fateful day, the fire of Kagyar's forge went out and Kagyar became terribly depressed and grim. His oldest son, Kargol, was sick at the heart seeing his father's disgrace, and tried to help him. He knew that only one thing could renew the fire of Kagyar's forge: the sun's rays. So he sneaked into Ixion's Fiery Palace and tried to steal a lock of his burning hair while he was sleeping. Unfortunately Ixion caught him and Kargol panicked. He flew across the halls with Ixion's hair in his hand and then he stumbled into Helios, Ixion's son, who tried to stop him. In the ensuing fight he accidentally killed him and run to his father's Palace in awe. Kargol was able to relight Kagyar's forge, but Ixion's curse affected him immediately after, for he petrified in front of his own father. Yet Ixion was not satisfied and wanted to rip Kargol to pieces for what he did to him and his son: so Kagyar crafted a statue similar to his son and gave it to Ixion, who reduced it to ashes in his fury and left Kagyar's palace. Kagyar didn't know what to do for his unfortunate son, so he placed him into Mother Earth's womb, where he hoped he would have rested in peace. But Mother Earth's heat and love dissolved Ixion's curse, and Kargol breathed again. He knew however that the Sun's curse was still upon him and that the sun was deadly to him. So he begged his mother to create a companion that would have shared with him his fate and loneliness. Kargol impregnated Mother Earth with his tears and she generated Gayle, Kargol's companion. They lived inside Mother Earth's womb for decades until Gayle became pregnant and she gave birth to her first child: but the child was stillborn, cold and still as the rock. Mother Earth expelled it from her womb and it began to circle around her in opposition with Ixion's fiery chariot: thus the Moon was born. The stillborn child made it possible for Kargol and Gayle to step out of their Mother's womb when she was visible in the sky, and they thanked her for this gift. Kargol and Gayle generated others in the following centuries, but they were all cursed as their parents were, and thus they became the Kargoyles... (Some sages speculate that the main material component used to produce normal -lesser- Gargoyles is a moon fragment...) 4. The Bane of Undead: these Kargoyles were created by powerful mages who lived in an area tormented by vampires and other night-stalkers. After some time the mages experienced that their own constructs were far too weak to stand the ongoing attacks and raids by the undead. They caught some vampires and experimented with living and non-living material. Finally they crossed a vampire with a gargoyle. Life got into existance as this new life opened its eyes for the very first time. It had the body of a gargoyle but the strength of a vampire in rage. But something went wrong and with the might came the weakness to sunlight. Shocked in the first moment the mages paid less attention to this draw-back because their new "comrades" could guard their homes as they were active just the same time the enemy was on the loose. STATISTICS FOR PC KARGOYLES Abilities: +2 to STR, CON (max 19) - -4 DEX Hit Dice: Wizard, Priest, Thief (d6); Fighter (d8). Starts with 1 HD at Normal Monster level for a maximum of 10 HD at ninth level. Gains automatic HP from 10th level and beyond according to his class. OD&D rules: Kargoyle starts with a negative XP value equal to the XP needed to advance to first level of his class. Armor Class: Level AC NM 7 1 6 3 5 5 4 7 3 9 1 Note: Dexterity bonus applies (if any). Kargoyles cannot wear any armor bulkier than chain mail and they get the best AC provided either by the armor or by their skin. Size: L, from 6' to 10', 600 to 1200 lbs, with wings. Movement: 9 walk, 15 on fours, 24 (C) fly (only from higher ground, not true flight) Magic Resistance: 1%/lvl for priests and mages, 2%/lvl for thieves and fighters. MR affects ALL spells, good and bad, and they can't drop it. In other words, Cure Wounds spells have to get through the MR too. MR does affect their own spells, too. If the kargoyle spellcasters (M-U and Clerics) want to drop their MR forever, they must undergo a special ritual before they reach 9th level: if they don't perform it and progress beyond 9th level, they won't ever get rid of their MR. Immunities: to natural cold, fire and normal diseases. Attacks: 2 claws, 1 tail which deal 1d8 damage, 1d4 for tail (non-fighters use only 2 claws which deal 1d4 damage). The Kargoyle gets only one attack per round when using weapons: multiple attacks are possible only for Fighters who reach the 12th level (OD&D rules). Hit-As: All Greater Gargoyles' (regardless of their class) natural attacks hit as +1 weapons. Level limits (OD&D/AD&D): Cleric Fighter Thief Wizard 15/12 36/20 20/14 10/10 (No Druids, Bards, Paladins, Rangers, or Psionics allowed) Hindrances: * It turns to stone when the sun touches its skin and reverts to normal form only when the sun sets. Once it has turned to stone it cannot awake from the "Stone Sleep" until the sun sets: it can however avoid turning into stone during daytime if he avoids direct sunlight; * When the kargoyle is petrified, it has AC 0 and all the damage done applies to the normal form when it turns at the sunset. Every item carried by the kargoyle when he petrifies turns to stone as well. Also, during the Stone Sleep it is immune to mental attacks, it is not aware of what's happening near it and cannot save against physical attacks (such as Fireball or Lightning Bolt); * If the kargoyle goes without the Stone Sleep for more than 48 hours, he starts losing Constitution points at the rate of 1 each 6 hours: when he reaches zero, he is forever petrified (no save -PC is lost; only a Wish can revive him). He can avoid the Stone Death by going into Stone Sleep before he loses all Con points: while in Stone Sleep he regains 1 Con point each 2 hours of sleep; * It needs food to sustain itself like every human being. However, the kargoyles can eat much more substances than the normal humans or demi-humans, including food normally eaten only by animals and even rotten food. They are not scavengers however, and will never eat corpses. * It can be damaged by normal weapons; * It can be cured only using Magic. Also, a kargoyle automatically heals 1 point of damage per experience level every time he falls into Stone Sleep; * If the kargoyle dies (reaches -1 HP), it falls apart to pieces and can be raised only using a Wish; * The kargoyle cleric can only be a follower of Kagyar, Gea or Terra (optional). Behaviour & Motivations: The player is free to find the drives and motivations for his kargoyle PC according to which of the legends about the origins of kargoyles he believes. Alternatively, he could very well be in search of the true origins of his race, trying to unlock the mystery behind his existence (which has been pourposefully left to the DMs) or invent new beliefs and legends about the greater gargoyles' origins he chooses to follow (or to disbelieve). Whichever way of thinking and acting he chooses, he must however remember that there may be other kargoyles out there that have a different belief and will probably fight against those who threaten it (and with it, the stability of their world)... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #62 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:07:28 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #63 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Tuesday, February 10 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 063 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Mystera GMing Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Witches spells & powers Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker [MYSTARA] - Karamekian Superiority Re: [MYSTARA] - Comments on "Sentient Races of Mystara" Re: [MYSTARA] - Ancient Languages Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Mighty Empire...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystera GMing Re: [MYSTARA] - Earthshaker! Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker Re: [MYSTARA] - re: glantrian economy Re: [MYSTARA] - Haven of Alphatia [MYSTARA] - The Endless Stair Re: [MYSTARA] - Ancient Languages Re: [MYSTARA] - Comments on "Sentient Races of Mystara" [MYSTARA] - German names Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 06:18:18 PST From: "Terry Wilcox" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystera GMing Hey, Some of my friends asked me to GM a TSR official setting (there were getting tired of my worlds, sniff) and I choice Mystera, not because I knew anything about it, but because I had a friend that gave me the box set a few years ago. Anyway, I have yet to read most of the on-line materail for Mystera (there is a LOT) and as I have things to do off the computer for the next year, I am not sure if I will ever read some parts of it unless I find that my players are in a new area that I need to look up. I would like some general advise as to what is intreasting in the Mystera setting, and what kind of things you enjoyed as players so I can think about implementing them in my campanien as well. Elindrake P.S. Is there a cliff note version to all of the Mystera online materail?? :) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:15:17 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Andrew Theisen wrote: <> I am in favour of the Sis'thik's presence in the Aryptian basin (after all, if THEY aren't capable of living there i don't see who could.. ;)). As for the origins of the Sis'thik and the kopru, while i may agree that the sis'thik have been created by (or have "devolved" from) the carnifex (first or second generation is not really important.. but probably second one), the origin of the kopru is a bit more problematic IMHO. They are an underwater race, so the idea Geoff had of kopru going around in pools of hot water transported by troglodyte slaves may seem a bit too visionary IMO. I tend to see their evolution very similar to the one of the alien creatures described by HP Lovecraft in his tale "At the mountains of madness". They were probably second generation carnifex living in isles in the Sea of Dread who experienced the same fate of the Y'hog carnifex: but they adapted to life underwater mutating by the use of magic. Anyway, Sis'thik living in Arypt is fine for me: let's go on with this. BTW, i think the second generation carnifex (Geoff's Y'hog carnifex) and Mystaros' serpentines ruling the Serpentine Empire can be considered the same folk. They were both evil "lizardkin", came after the Carnifex Tyranny, spread their dominion over Davania and created servitor races. Call them as u want, but they're the same. :) DM "So what's wrong guys? Never seen raising somebody from the dead?" an outer world cleric addressing a group of Nithians in the Hollow World after AC 1010. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:56:17 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Witches spells & powers At 09.22 10/02/98 +0200, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >>Sidenote 1: since Szasza is now a vampiress, i think she's stuck at 3rd level as a witch (she cannot go to Glantri city to receive further training as per rules due to her nature!) >Why can't she go to Glantri City? Prince Morphail certainly seems able to do so. Also, why does she have to go there? Can't she learn the abilities herself? Because Morphail doesn't let his servants go too far from their dominions out of fear their real nature is discovered. Also, she cannot advance by herself: according to the rules in GAZ 3, each time a new ability can be attained, the mage must learn it from his master, spendin many weeks of learning and paying a large amount of money IIRC. DM "There are things better left untouched... and my tail is one of those!" Khordarg the dragon to her hatchlings *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:46:37 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker In a message dated 98-02-09 16:08:32 EST, you write: << *Ahem* Excuse me, gentlemen, but I don't see the point of this argument; the people of Karameikos have risen up from humble beginnings to surpass you all. We have tamed our land, and made peace with our neighbours. We also don't have kobolds running large parts of the kingdom. Long Live King Stefan! Alexius Danellaran, Knight of the Order of the Griffon P.S. If anyone knows the whereabouts of that scum Ludvig von Hendriks, or his henchmage, Bargle, please let me know, for I have been charged with bringing them to justice in our land. Glen >> Yes the Karameikan people.... or should I say peoples.... have made much headway. Let us hope that the Alphatian and Alfheim refugees will help to guide them on to even greater goals. Such as leaving the sight of the Sea of Dread. As for Bargle and his former liege the Black Eagle, both are fair game. For the love of youthfulness and a lack of resonsibilities. Allstrick of Alphatia retired adventurer now living in Mirros to raise his son. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:59:36 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: [MYSTARA] - Karamekian Superiority At 06:30 PM 2/9/98 -0600, you wrote: >Ahem, yourself! You Karmeikans have it soft. Hasve you been chased by devilfish halfway across the world? Have you had to deal with a whole city of beholders? Didn't think so. Us triton are so superior to any of you humans. >Aharon, triton mage and historian Soft? You try slogging through the length of the Blight Swamp in plate mail while being chased by a horde of von Hendrik's humanoids intent on tearing you limb from limb just because you were investigating what was left of his stronghold looking for that miserable Black Eagle Baron and his henchmage Bargle the so-infamous-he-had-to-change-his-gender and you happened to disturb them during one of their tribal rituals involving six chickens, four goats, a loaf of rye bread, a lot of paint, and ear wax (don't even think of asking) which they had been planning for six months ever since they heard the hin had left the area after having scoured it themselves over the past few years and which you disturbed by falling through the rotting roof and landing directly in the paint. Soft...this coming from a half-fish. I'll have you know I eat lots of fish, preferably battered and deep-fried. Karameikos rules! Alexius Dannelaran *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:01:58 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Comments on "Sentient Races of Mystara" In a message dated 98-02-09 16:31:25 EST, you write: << Thanks for the information! When I get the chance I will update the file. I have one question re: you comments about the Ee'ar: >These winged elves would be more closely related to the avariel, I would think. what are the Avariel? I've heard the name but know little. >> The Avariel are winged elves. They are described in the Complete Book of Elves (AD&D). The are even more uppity than their elven cousins. The consider themselves a more virtuous strain of the line. An Avariel Clan is usually split equallly along the warrior and philosopher lines. Avariel "live" about 300 years before departing for the elven homeworld. IMC I have a Clan of avariel residing in Davania within the boundaries of the Divergans. The winged elves and Divergans clashed in the past resulting in defeat on the part of the avariel. Currently, they are allied but the elves are definitely subserviant. They see the Divergans as brothers in arms. They have gone as far as to adopt the Divergan religion and philosophy. The Avarial are devoutly loyal to their landbound brothers. Oh yeah, did I mention their leader is a vampiric in nature? A vampire avariel. I based him and his clique of fellow vamps with Ravenloft rules. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:05:54 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ancient Languages In a message dated 98-02-09 20:18:24 EST, you write: < Well for my Divergans I use a bastardized German for terms and such. I've < always seen the Blackmoor as German based. Don't ask why. Since the Divergans < are a product of Blackmoor technology, they bear some of the national traits < of the Blackmoor. In the years since the GRoF, the Divergan/Blackmoor traits < have evolved to their present state. Hence the bastardized German terms. >> Funny! I always thought Blackmoor were English. The name of the king, Uther Andrahar IIRC, sounds Arturian. >> Probably the reason I associate the Blackmoor to Germany is the notion that Prince Jaggar is rumored to be of distant Blackmoor heritage. Then there is the technology aspect of Blackmoor. I see the German people as ingenious when it comes to technology. Then there is the notion (DA Series) of a kingdom stuck between various nations displaying hostility. The superior qualty of troops. How many times was Blackmoor assaulted during the DA series and repelled the outnumbering invaders.? As for names and what nationalityy they sound like, what about Mackensen? Sounds Anglo to me. Yet in WW2 there was a German general by that name that led 14th Army in Italy. Like I said, I always associated the Blackmoor with Germany. Don't ask me why. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:20:46 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia, Mighty Empire...? In a message dated 98-02-09 21:20:02 EST, you write: << > But wasn't the Old Alphatian homeworld as decribed in Maelstrom portrayed as >being post Alphatian Civil War? After the Air Mages combined their magics and >unleashed a super duper spell that pounded the planet? If so, it is imaginable that the old planet was sanded down so to speak. The >circumference would be dramatically less than before the winds began blasting >away at the planet's surface. <> Exactly my point. The Homeworld in Maelstrom is a blasted down version of the original. In WotI it is mentioned that the asteroids do have inhabitants and a skyshield. Basically, we are on the same page here. <> That is all reasonable. But DotE (IIRC) says that the Air Mages created a skysheild that surrounded the entire system. The one portrayed in M1 is much smaller. IMO the original skyshield was huge and did surround the entire Alphatian solar system/empire. When the spell of mass destruction was cast the original bubble was shattered. Much of the air dispersed to collect around the asteroids and planetoids. OR you could say that the skyshield has eroded without the presence of the Air Mages.A couple of thousand years without proper maintenance could easily explain the smaller nature of the air bubble. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:20:04 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystera GMing At 06:18 AM 2/10/98 PST, you wrote: >I would like some general advise as to what is intreasting in the Mystera setting, and what kind of things you enjoyed as players so I can think about implementing them in my campanien as well. Small list follows... 1. For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky; tired of walking under a constantly changing sky? Go deep, deep, deep underground, and you'll be in the Hollow World, where half your spells don't work right (the important ones, that get you OUT of there when you're sick of it) and everyone long dead lives again. The ultimate Lost World setting. 2. The Gods Must Be Crazy: Wrath of the Immortals, World War I in a fantasy world. There are lots of sides to fight for, and the entire planet gets a makeover; Atlantis (er, Alphatia) sinks, and the Elves lose their trees. Lots of stuff happening. 3. These Are the Voyages: The Princess Ark series, which provided huge amounts of story ideas and settings for the Savage Coast, as well as a few other parts of Mystara. Check them out in Dragon Magazine (153-200), or in the Champions of Mystara boxed set. 4. Surroundsound Fantasy: I don't know how other people felt about these, but I loved the CD-Rom products for Mystara; they really add something special to the adventures. Whether its a soundtrack (Red Steel) or adventure tracks (Karameikos boxed set), they're lots of fun. And the music is pretty damn good. 5. Reigning Cats and Dogs: Lupin and Rakasta PCs, in different settings (Savage Coast, the invisible moon). Be a half-man/half-dog, or half-girl/half-cat without worrying about silver arrows or the full moon. It's fun! MYSTARA RULES!!! Glen Sprigg *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:35:51 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Earthshaker! In a message dated 98-02-09 12:42:14 EST, you write: << In CM4(?) Earthshaker! a clan of gnomes operating an enormous, sky-scraper sized automaton were introduced. Then in one of the AC products (The Book of Marvelous Inventions) they were mentioned again.>> Well I once owned but never played out Earthshaker. Do not have The Book of Marvelous Inventions. <> But wasn't the construct mentioned in EarthShaker set up to be run by some gem that held the captured soul of some bad giant? IIRC the Earthshaker was the carcass of the giant. It's been a while since I had Earthshaker so I am probably wrong. Earthshaakers a plenty in Davania- I see not problem with this. Given the harsh terrain of the Vulcania area, such walking homes would be understandable. But now I am drawing on my own campaign. <> Come now. Alphatians showing aggression. Where does this info come from? I am curious since I am filling out Davania. Any info sources would be most welcome. <> IMC I have placed Gnomes in two distinct areas. One is central Davania. The other more southernly. The Southern is the oldest established of the two. It is also the same Clan that spawned the Flying City of Serraine. The other is a displaced Clan. Recently (last 100 years) it has set up shop after breaking from the older more southern Clan due to "tinkering differences". Both have Earthshaker like constructs. Both Clans are close enough to my Divergans to have rattled sabers with them. In fact, a situation is rising as the gnomes have begun meddling around the anciant Blackmoor military base in the Meghales Amosses Desert. BTW the desert was formed by a missile launch coming from the base to destroy the fleeing Divergans. The warheads blanketed the area causing a desert like environment. The Divergans survived due to some misinformation given the base's battle computer to the exact location of the Divergans. The Divergans wish the gnomes stopped for two reasons. 1) Defiling what they see as sacred ground. Afterall their creator, the geneticist Denag, perished within the base while insuring his children, the Divergan's, survive. 2) The Divergans are fearful of the gnomes discovering and unleashing the ancient weapons of the fatherland (Blackmoor). Their religion forbids the use of the technology that caused the GRoF. Plus the Divergans are gearing for a war. Their patron Denag forbids their going to war with the Heldannic Knights in GreenBay despite their expansions toward Divergan lands. (Vanya is part of the quasi-Denag pantheon). The Milenian City/States are too far and across the desert. And the gnomes are as good a target. The incursion on the base by the gnomes give good reason. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:24:19 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker At 10:46 AM 2/10/98 EST, you wrote: >Yes the Karameikan people.... or should I say peoples.... have made much headway. Let us hope that the Alphatian and Alfheim refugees will help to guide them on to even greater goals. Such as leaving the sight of the Sea of Dread. >As for Bargle and his former liege the Black Eagle, both are fair game. For the love of youthfulness and a lack of resonsibilities. >Allstrick of Alphatia >retired adventurer now living in Mirros to raise his son. Ah, a man of taste and good sense! A rarity in this day and age... Actually, I'm hunting Bargle and the Black Eagle for a very specific reason; they must be brought to justice, and I have been charged with returning them to Karameikos to face the throne. However, it was not the throne that set me to this task, but a higher authority. I can say no more at this time. Alexius Dannelaran (VERY high level member of the Order of the Griffon) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:37:56 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - re: glantrian economy In a message dated 98-02-10 04:08:56 EST, you write: << On a related note, what do you think of Brannart McGregor? He was unfortunately almost ignored by TSR, even though IMO he could be seen as a master plotter (sort of a worldly equivalent of Thanatos). IMC he has spies in almost every other noble's court, gathering information which could lead to him getting more magical knowledge and discovering more of the Radiance. The fact that he appears uncaring about the rest of the world could be a masterful disguise to conceal his real plans - the eventual ascension to Immortality and replacing Rad as the ruler/Immortal of Glantri. IMO he may suspect the Rad/Ambreville connection (in fact, any idiot would suspect it, since *both* Ambreville *and* Rad disappeared at the same time, and *no* other nobles disappeared at that time). I also think Brannart is perfectly aware of Synn's little plot and is content to let her do her stuff; since his enemy Etienne's attention will be likely focused on Synn right now, Brannart can execute his plots in relative safety. The Brannart-Etienne enmity also ties well into the canon material, as they originally came from Laterre (talk about old rivalries). Thoughts? >> Well it was Brannart who sent a minion to slay the Alphatian elven spy. This act led to the declaration of war between Alphatia and Glantri. But yes, I agree that Brannart was overlooked. Which is a shame because he has the potential of being the big dog in Glantri. That is depending on how you play the fate of Etienne/Rad after WotI. If only he can eliminate Morphail...... And yes, I agree with the overall plot. Brannart is a lich. Be it a Radiance based lich. He has time on his side. Brannart/Etienne relationship- I find it amusing that Brannart is technically a member of a long standing enemy. Does he know Etienne is really Rad? Maybe. But even he will be skeptical. "Etienne is Rad. Bah....d'Ambreville propaganda." Synn- Brannart is probably aware of Synn. At least he is suspicious of Dolores's rapid rise to power. Having one rival entropic is enough. However, Brannart will sit back and watch the Night Dragon's efforts. He will analyze and break down all possibilities to see how it would effect him and if he can benefit from it in any way. BTW I am playing Brannart in a PBEM. As you can imagine I am playing him in some most unusual ways. Ask Kaviyd, as GM he can attest to that. I cannot go on too far as some other players may be watching. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:21:14 -0800 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Haven of Alphatia At 03:08 PM 2/10/98 +0100, you wrote: >J. Daly wrote: >< >Important Personages: Mylertendal (M36, L, Alphatia) is the oldest NPC Alphatian ever listed in canon material.>> >Just one question here: you assume that she's still living after the Week of No Magic, then (remember her age)? That is a good and fair question. It is also one I had intended to address...sorry. I am setting my descriptions in AC1000/AY2000. I have several reasons for this... 1) The original Alphatian gazetteer was set in this time. 2) My frustration was great in trying to acquire military information on Alphatia in the past. I never received it of course until the time of the Poor Wizard's Almanacs. But by then we were in post WotI. 3) I find her a fascinating character for the very reason that she is the oldest canonical Alphatian. This is not to say I won't come up with older ones...in fact, I have several ideas on the subject. I have this theory involving Elminster/Merlin/Gandalf type wizards... >< >Familiar quote: "Though a mage, I was never a man to rely on magic.">> >Well, why should he be a mage then? I mean, if he's a great worker and doesn't like to rely on magic, i doubt he'd ever followed the path of wizardry. Why not making him a Cleric of Ordana or better of Terra or Djaea (since i feel Ordana is more linked to forests)? Because there is no shortage of Alphatian mages who DO rely on magic. Making one man different creates interest, I believe. Perhaps I erred in not presenting more typical npc mages and then he maybe his purpose would have been more clear... >I liked the overview of the country you presented here. No other comment except this idea: what about adding a character based on HPL's Richard Upton Pickman? Just to show also Aasla's darker side.. ;) Forgive my ignorance: Who is he? >Also a last question: how did they manage to build that astral highway you invented? Who knows how the Alphatians do what they do? I plan on exploring the "astral highway" further at a later time. Aasla is not the origin of the device, it merely has several stops in the country. My only idea is that they probably cast gate to an x point in the >astral from different locations (cities) thus linking them all via common nexi (plural of nexus?), and rendered them permanent using Wishes. The cost for creating and mantaining it is zero this way (building permanent Teleport pods would have cost much more). IF it's so, then what happens in the DoD? Good question. As I said earlier I set the time before the Day of Dread. I find this time, for Alphatian purposes, to be more interesting. There is certainly gate magic involved. Probably wishes also... Maybe the use of certain immortal creatures... >The gates disappear and reapper at the beginning of the new day thanx to the Wish? Sounds good. Or there could be a horrible "train crash" type accident. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:55:00 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Morrow Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Endless Stair (snip)<<...I set it in Darokin on the trade route between Darokin and Selenica, south of Alfheim. Wrapped it around CM9 Legacy of Blood so it worked okay. I saw nothing about the story that made it have to happen in Glantri, or on the Known World for that matter. Norwold would work, too.>> Which brings up another question. CM9 will probably change substantialy if played post Wrath. (The forest is dead, scads of Shadow Elves tromping around the country side, who knows what kinds of nasty monsters moving into the redecorated elven forest, Alfhiem Avengers looking for nearby staging points for raids, etc...) It will also add new urgency to exploring the swamp (why isnt it drying up with the rest of the forest?) Any other ideas? - -III *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:02:53 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ancient Languages On Mon, 9 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: >Funny! I always thought Blackmoor were English. The name of the king, Uther Andrahar IIRC, sounds Arturian. Uthr is a Welsh nickname meaning "fierce", definitely. "Andrahar" is pure fantasy and doesn't sound the least bit Arthurian to me. PS: "Arthr ap Uthr" *could* mean "Arthur son of Uther", bit it could also mean "Arthur the Fierce". That's a bit of fun to use on players. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:04:34 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Comments on "Sentient Races of Mystara" On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Glen Sprigg wrote: >The Avariel are the Winged Folk, originally presented in Dragon #51, reprinted in Best of Dragon Vol. 3, and finally renamed Avariel and added to "Avariel", eh? I'm reminded of Tolkein's "Avari"--the Unwilling Ones. And you're right, the original Wingled Folk were *explicitly* presented as virtually identical to half-elves except with wings. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:05:08 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - German names << Thank you very much, my friend. Now tell me...would "Ritterburg" be translated as Knighttown? Not quite right. The exact translation would be Knight's Castle. BTW, Jaggar is NOT a German name, at least no name known to me. Some more monsters: Beholder - Betrachter Doppelganger - Doppelgaenger Unicorn - Einhorn Bat - Fledermaus Gargoyle - Gargyle Ghoul - Ghul Griffon - Greif Shark - Hai Giant - Riese Snake - Schlange Blackball - Schwarzball Weapons: Sword - Schwert Lance - Lanze Dagger - Dolch Long Bow - Langbogen Short bow - Kurzbogen Crossbows - Armbrust Places: Black Eagle - Schwarzer Adler (poetic: Schwarzaar) Freiburg - Free Castle Grauenberg - Greymountain Altendorf - Oldvillage Grunturm - Greentower Blauendorf - Bluevillage Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:05:10 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) << Well, something like "I'm going to rip your heart out and eat it, you foreign infidel pig!" >> I don't know... But here the translation: "Ich werde Dir Dein Herz herausreissen und es genuesslich verspeisen, Du unglaeubiges Auslaenderschwein!" Jamuga Khan "More blood, please! Our enemies have to tremble for fear." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:05:07 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) << Italian comic strip (really... and it's very funny too) >> I think I know it: German soldiers in WWI with one Italian ally? I wasn't aware that it was an Italian series. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #63 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, February 11 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 064 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker [MYSTARA] - RE: Cynidicean info Re: [MYSTARA] - Setting Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) [MYSTARA] - Kol and Brannart (was glantrian economy) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - German names Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: Cynidicean info Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker Re: [MYSTARA] - Earthshaker! Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - German names Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - The Mightiest of Dragons Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Ancient Languages Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re : The Twaelar ( Was : I need help on X1 ) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:05:26 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Chris Paul Billows wrote: >How long do you think it would take for a mortal to attain immortality and then full hiearch in years? I've never even heard of it happening in any honest campaign. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:05:09 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) << I think you're thinking of Richard the Lionheart, King of England in the late 12th century. >> Richard drowned not in a Turkey river, he died from the hit of a crossbow bolt during a campaign in France. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:06:32 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker In a message dated 98-02-10 11:48:21 EST, you write: << >Yes the Karameikan people.... or should I say peoples.... have made much hheadway. Let us hope that the Alphatian and Alfheim refugees will help to guide them on to even greater goals. Such as leaving the sight of the Sea of Dread. >As for Bargle and his former liege the Black Eagle, both are fair game. For the love of youthfulness and a lack of resonsibilities. >Allstrick of Alphatia >retired adventurer now living in Mirros to raise his son. Ah, a man of taste and good sense! A rarity in this day and age... Actually, I'm hunting Bargle and the Black Eagle for a very specific reason; they must be brought to justice, and I have been charged with returning them to Karameikos to face the throne. However, it was not the throne that set me to this task, but a higher authority. I can say no more at this time. Alexius Dannelaran (VERY high level member of the Order of the Griffon) >> Yes. Good taste and bery much good sense. A rare trait in these times, but a trait surely to be resurgent. Well good luck with your quest. But I remind you that justice is not only blind but often at times easily bought. Both the Black Eagle and Bargle are wily old sorts. Both are not easily subdued. And both have shown an uncanny ability to escape justice. I fear that justice will be only attained at the point of a sword. If I recall correctly, either may be brought in dead or alive. I would opt for the former. A very high level member of the Order? Hmm.....funny never heard of you. And I thought I knew the names of most of those zealots. Allstrick a very high level Alphatian half elven fighter mage , who also lived in Glantri for a considerable period. A friend of not only the Alphatian refugees but also Master Terari of the School of Magecraft. And had a little something to do with assisting King Stefan in quelling the Marlinev Rebellion. (Sorry couldn't resist) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:06:37 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Morrow Subject: [MYSTARA] - RE: Cynidicean info This discussion of the Cynidiceans brings to mind an adventure idea. Characters who spend any time in the Hollow World will very likely figure out its purpose as a kind of cultural preserve, and may even discover that there is magic present which assists that purpose. What if these same characters later discovered the Cynidiceans and realized (perhaps with a little Immortal inspiration) that this nearly dead culture was a perfect cantidate for the HW. Can you imagine the poor characters trying to transport a couple hundred hallucinating Cynidiceans to the Hollow World? Even if they knew of an easy way there, like Atruaghin's elevator, and even considering the subtle help they would be bound to recieve from the Cynidicean's patron Immortals, it would be quite a task. Sounds like a job for heroes to me. (Of course the Immortals really should have moved the Cynidiceans to the HW magically some time ago, but that wouldn't be nearly as much fun.) - -III *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:07:07 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Setting On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >>My premise: The Magic Comes Back >I like it. But I hope the pc's actually have a hand in bringing the magic back... Actually, it's started coming back without them. The PCs are to have a pivotal role (if they survive long enough) in whether or not that magic *stays*. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:13:57 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= wrote: >Hey I like this! I take back my previous argument. This reminds me that Dwarves and Greed is a stereotype we should rid Mystara of. This is the stereotypical dwarf in my D&D campaign: "Tougher than shield leather, more supersticious than an Egyptian, more sentimental than Sabine grandmothers." (from "I, Claudius") *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:10:07 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Matthew Levy wrote: >I think you're thinking of Richard the Lionheart, King of England in the late 12th century. Absolutely wrong. Richard Coeur de Lion was killed by an arrow through the eye during a siege on Crusade. Barbarossa drowned in a stream. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:47:07 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Morrow Subject: [MYSTARA] - Kol and Brannart (was glantrian economy) <<> It was easy for Kol in PWA 1010, 'cause the other Glantrian nobles ((Harald, Urmahid, Juliana- IIRC) were out and out ignored as having any vote. Which left Dolores, Morphail, Brannart, Jaggar, and Henri for Kol, with only Virayana, Carlotina, and possibly Carnelia to vote against Kol. >With the later additions, it would probably be more like- Dolores, Morphail, Brannart, Jaggar, and Henri- pro Kol; Harald, Urmahid, Virayana, Juliana, and Carlotina against... Carnelia probably would be Con, but I could possibly see her being Pro. (snip) What was also ignored is that they were creating a Prince. Granted, Dolores has substantial support, however it is not strong enough to inspire the princes to give away some of their own power in the council. I can see Henri and Jaggar perhaps being sufficiently under her influence to vote in favour of whatever she wanted, but Brannart and Morphail tend to vote her way simply because their interests are often similar. She has no particular hold over them. And even given Malachies sympathies toward other monsters I cannot see a relatively new prince, with very little influence voting to add another Prince to the council, proportionally decreasing his influence in the process. That said, I can see the arguments for making Kol a Glantrian noble. Dolores could probably convince the council to give him the Viscounty of Blackstone for the same reasons that others have argued giving him a full principality. That way they would have some one in control of the area, would have that hold over him, and he wouldnt be a substantial threat to their power. <> In regard to the concurrent disappearance of Rad and Etienne, I would suspect that it wasnt nearly that obvious. Etienne, being a powerful mage, would undoubtedly come and go as he pleases, and would have been gone for some time before anyone became concerned. The Brotherhood probably hadnt heard from Rad for sometime before the end of Wrath. At the beginning of the war he might have been eager to use the Brotherhood, his most direct human agents, but as he spent more and more time working on the Doomsday Device with Rafiel, they probably stopped hearing from him all together. Any connection drawn between Etienne and Rad would be only the purest speculation. The Brannart- Thanatos connection meshes well with my supposition that Thanatos may sponsor Brannart to Immortality. We know that Brannart has been seeking the Entropic Path to Immortality for some time (Gaz 3), and if we accept your analysis of Brannarts character, Thanatos seems ideally suited to sponsor him. - -III *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:19:50 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: ><< Well, something like "I'm going to rip your heart out and eat it, you fforeign infidel pig!" >> >I don't know... >But here the translation: "Ich werde Dir Dein Herz herausreissen und es genuesslich verspeisen, Du unglaeubiges Auslaenderschwein!" Or, if you wish to express desire instead of future tense ("I'm going to" in English can mean "I want to" as well as make a prediction), replace "werde" with "wolle". And there has to be something closer to "foreign infidel pig" than "unbelievable foreign pig". "Infidel" usually means "somebody of a religion I hate"... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:24:11 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - German names On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: >BTW, Jaggar is NOT a German name, at least no name known to me. It's as close as "bodendrucker" is to German. Think "jaeger". >Shark - Hai Or "haifisch", as in the song... >Freiburg - Free Castle "Freecastle"--English speakers run it together, as in "Newcastle", possibly could also be called "Castle Liberty" or "Liberty Castle"--not run together because "liberty" has so many syllables, depending upon local history. >Grauenberg - Greymountain "Greymount" >Altendorf - Oldvillage "Oldville" >Blauendorf - Bluevillage "Blueville"--the "-ville" suffix is not part of normal modern English, but it is still used in the naming of places. Similar for "-mount". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:26:07 -0800 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: Cynidicean info Can you imagine the poor characters trying to ttransport a couple hundred hallucinating Cynidiceans to the Hollow World? This is hilarious! I love it... NO! Get away from that orc horde! They want to eat you. Come this way! Oh man, I see some real potential here! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:29:41 -0800 From: Daly Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker However, it was not the throne that set >me to this task, but a higher authority. I can say no more at this time. >Alexius Dannelaran >(VERY high level member of the Order of the Griffon) >> >A very high level member of the Order? Hmm.....funny never heard of you. And I >thought I knew the names of most of those zealots. >Allstrick >a very high level Alphatian half elven fighter mage , who also lived in Glantri for a considerable period. A friend of not only the Alphatian refugees >but also Master Terari of the School of Magecraft. And had a little something Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 00:19:12 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #64 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 59a95aec6e839542e5414ab697f29b3c >to do with assisting King Stefan in quelling the Marlinev Rebellion. >(Sorry couldn't resist) Sorry, can't say I've heard of either one of you... --Halav Redhair, Immortal patron of...well, you know. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:06:03 -0800 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Earthshaker! >But wasn't the construct mentioned in EarthShaker set up to be run by some gem >that held the captured soul of some bad giant? IIRC the Earthshaker was the carcass of the giant. It's been a while since I had Earthshaker so I am probably wrong. I had forgotten about that! Actually I believe it was some sort of evil giant god. Perhaps though only the one earthshaker was powered in this way... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:20:17 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: ><< Well, something like "I'm going to rip your heart out and eat it, you fforeign infidel pig!" >> >I don't know... >But here the translation: "Ich werde Dir Dein Herz herausreissen und es genuesslich verspeisen, Du unglaeubiges Auslaenderschwein!" My mistake--it does say "infidel"--unbeliever. I read the German too fast. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:09:33 PST From: "clayton cook" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Ones ><< But if an immortal decided he had to sacrifice his iimmortality as a desperate move for the greater good of...whatever--then I >think it would be a cool storyline. >> >I agree. Also, since the Immortal must be at the top of her sphere, this would >be an unimagineable event. Imagine if all of a sudden, Ixion or Khronus, were >just gone. It would definately make a good story. This reminds me of a story once, where the "gods" vanish and all the immortals of all the gods started to disappear. I think it was "The Rose of the Prophet". It is not quite the same but simmilar. There another one, Forgotten Realms "The Avatar Trilogy" I think it was called. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:49:57 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - German names << It's as close as "bodendrucker" is to German. Think "jaeger". It's a job or hobby or a surname, but not a given name. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:30:40 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes << I agree. This will help developing Mystara into a more unique setting aswell. Im all pro Alfheim back to the surface elves and Oenkmar to the Shadowelves. >> Why not Alfheim to An Alfheim/Shadowelves coalition, Aengmor City to the SE renegades and the caverns to the third group of SEs ? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 00:36:38 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Mightiest of Dragons At 02.34 10/02/98 -0600, Galwylin wrote: II went and checked the TSR site for this article. It's online if you want to read through it in #158. Not being one that likes clicking through text articles online, does anyone have a list of articles from Dragon dealing with some aspects of Mystara we might could pull from the TSR site? I know that someone (Daniel Boese) made such a list a couple of years ago. I have it on paper, but I doubt I still have the file.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:16:36 From: ccosman@huntingdon.edu (Cecil Cosman) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:05:09 EST, mystara-l@MPGN.COM wrote... ><< I think you're thinking of Richard the Lionheart, King of England in the >late 12th century. >> >Richard drowned not in a Turkey river, he died from the hit of a crossbow bolt during a campaign in France. Three important leaders of the lands go out... one drowned... one gave up the crusade and one... richard the lionheart fought til he got bored and was in peril of loosing his kingdom... or something. Um... I should know who the other two where just took that class last semester heh. ;) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 00:39:07 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) At 12.05 10/02/98 EST, JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: <<< Well, something like "I'm going to rip your heart out and eat it, you fforeign infidel pig!" >> >I don't know... >But here the translation: "Ich werde Dir Dein Herz herausreissen und es genuesslich verspeisen, Du unglaeubiges Auslaenderschwein!" Ugh! I guess pronouncing that it's a nightmare for someone that doesn't speak German at all :-) ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:07:14 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ancient Languages On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 Alex295@AOL.COM wrote: >Probably the reason I associate the Blackmoor to Germany is the notion that Prince Jaggar is rumored to be of distant Blackmoor heritage. Then there is the technology aspect of Blackmoor. I see the German people as ingenious when it comes to technology. Then there is the notion (DA Series) of a kingdom stuck between various nations displaying hostility. The superior qualty of troops. How many times was Blackmoor assaulted during the DA series and repelled the outnumbering invaders.? [Sorry about that last one- I misfired with the send button... :( ] I always assumed that Jaggar's "genealogy" went something like this- Thonians/Blackmoorians (who were related in some fashion to the Skandaharians of the north) became the ancestors of the Antalian folk, following the Great Rain of Fire. Some Antalians were transported to Davania by the Nithians, and became the Hinterlanders. Three tribes of Hinterlanders fled northwards- the Hattians, Thyatians, and Kerendans. During the immigration period of c.700 AC, a number of Thyatians- notably Hattians, expatriates of that country- came to Glantri. Following Halzunthram's death, the Thyatians/Kerendans led by Alexander Glantri founded the dominion of Caurenze. The Hattians, disliking their kinfolk, went north, where they encountered those Alphatians that had revolted against Halzunthram (see below). Both groups were outcasts, with nowhere to go, and some enterprising and pragmatic members of both groups decided to form the dominion of Aalban, housing both peoples. Some even more foresighted members saw the possibilities of combining Hattian military might and Alphatian magic, and intermarried, forming the strong line of which Jaggar von Drachenfels is a part. (As to the Alphatians- initially there were only the Flaemish. Then, with Halzunthram, came a large contingent of Alphatians. During the Forty Years War, most of these remained loyal to Halzunthram, but some joined the rebellion. On Halzunthram's death, those that had remained loyal to him formed Blackhill, while those who hadn't were considered outcasts by Blackhill and the Flaemish, and so ended up in the same area as the Hattians). - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 22:55:16 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker At 12:06 PM 2/10/98 EST, you wrote: >Actually, I'm hunting Bargle and the Black Eagle for a very specific reason; they must be brought to justice, and I have been charged with returning them to Karameikos to face the throne. However, it was not the throne that set me to this task, but a higher authority. I can say no more at this time. >Well good luck with your quest. But I remind you that justice is not only blind but often at times easily bought. Both the Black Eagle and Bargle are wily old sorts. Both are not easily subdued. And both have shown an uncanny ability to escape justice. I fear that justice will be only attained at the point of a sword. If I recall correctly, either may be brought in dead or alive. I would opt for the former. Oh, no, they will be brought in alive to face the King himself. That is one of the requirements of this quest. Along with my squire, Lucinda, I have been searching for that wretch von Hendriks for nearly a year now. I'll find him, no matter how long it takes. >A very high level member of the Order? Hmm.....funny never heard of you. And I thought I knew the names of most of those zealots. Zealots is such a strong word. I prefer 'faithful'. And I've been away for a few years on a personal quest, so my name isn't mentioned that often in the lists. Alexius Dannelaran *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 23:01:40 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker At 12:29 PM 2/10/98 -0800, you wrote: >Sorry, can't say I've heard of either one of you... >--Halav Redhair, Immortal patron of...well, you know. Since when do Immortals get involved in these threads?! Besides, you're the patron of Traladarans. Look at my name; I'm of Thyatian descent. I follow the Church of Karameikos, and my personal patron is Diulanna. I respect the traditions that have kept your memory alive, but you're not directly influencing my life at all. Sorry about that. Alexius *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 00:38:36 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Hi! >Thank you very much, my friend. Now tell me...would "Ritterburg" be translated as Knighttown? Nope! "Burg" is "castle", so "Ritterburg" would be the castle of a knight! ************************************************************ Peter Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:11:22 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 bjm10@cornell.edu wrote: >Absolutely wrong. Richard Coeur de Lion was killed by an arrow through the eye during a siege on Crusade. Barbarossa drowned in a stream. I thought it was Alexander who was felled by an arrow in the eye? - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:46:10 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re : The Twaelar ( Was : I need help on X1 ) On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Aaron E Nowack wrote: >Nope. PC3 came after the Gazzeteer series was finished, and the sea peoples wern't mentioned again by any canon source :( However one of my long range projects is to get together a PWA-style writeup of the Sunlit Sea area. (right after the rest of the timeline and perhaps War Machine statistics for the armies of Undersea). I did quite a bit of that this weekend- for AC 1000 Undersea, anyway. I'll send it to you if you'd like to see what I've got so far. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #64 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, February 11 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 065 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Setting Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Ancient Languages Re: [MYSTARA] - The Endless Stair Re: [MYSTARA] - re: glantrian economy Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Sentient Races on Mystara [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - Witches spells & powers [MYSTARA] - House of Kol [MYSTARA] - House of Hillsbury [MYSTARA] - Conclusion about Glantrian economy posts Re: [MYSTARA] - re: glantrian economy Re: [MYSTARA] - German names Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystera GMing Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) [MYSTARA] - Sulescu and Morphail? [MYSTARA] - Hin Immortals ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 00:02:17 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Setting One thing about this campaign -- it would reverse the "balance of magic" between the Known World and the Hollow World. Adventuring in the Hollow World would be a very dangerous proposition for Known World adventurers! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 01:00:38 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Hi! It´s quite dificult to try to write the pronounciation also, but I´ll try! >1) Greetings and welcome to Heldann. >1) Herzlich willkommen! Herzlich willkommen in Helldann! H.. is like in Hail! e.. is like a, but a little more open (?). r.. is an r, but it´s rolling and there not so much voice in it! Okay, I´ll stop that now, because it´s to difficult to describe it via mail, maybe somebody else can do it better. >2) Halt slime! Throw down your weapons and put your face on the floor! 2) Halt! Waffen fallen! Auf den Bauch legen! (Und keinen Mucks mehr!) Halt! Waffen fallen lassen! Auf den Bauch legen! (Und keinen Mucks mehr!) means And shut up! >Raecher Avenger >Well, something like "I'm going to rip your heart out and eat it, you foreign infidel pig!" "Ich werde dir dein Herz aus deiner Brust reißen und es essen, Du ausländisches, ungläubiges Schwein." ************************************************************ Peter Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:58:55 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ancient Languages On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 Alex295@AOL.COM wrote: >Probably the reason I associate the Blackmoor to Germany is the notion that Prince Jaggar is rumored to be of distant Blackmoor heritage. Then there is the technology aspect of Blackmoor. I see the German people as ingenious when it comes to technology. Then there is the notion (DA Series) of a kingdom stuck between various nations displaying hostility. The superior qualty of troops. How many times was Blackmoor assaulted during the DA series and repelled the outnumbering invaders.? >As for names and what nationalityy they sound like, what about Mackensen? Sounds Anglo to me. Yet in WW2 there was a German general by that name that led 14th Army in Italy. >Like I said, I always associated the Blackmoor with Germany. Don't ask me why. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:54:49 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Endless Stair On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Andrew Morrow wrote: >Just wondering- where would you folks place CM8 The Endless Stair? It claims to be somewhere in Glantri, but there really isn't much space off the beaten path to put it. How about an alternate location- maybe Norwold? Darokin? I have placed it in Glantri, as the module proposes. It's somewhere (IIRC- I'll have to check my map to be sure) along the free territories between New Averoigne and Malinbois... although it might have been in Malinbois. Again, I'll check. I've even incorporated the events, such as they are, into my campaign timeline. Baron Elktazar, the Axe-Lord, was a warrior-baron in the pre-Light of Rad days, as was the witch woman they mention in there (having a barony to the east- around the lands near Braejr). The Battle of Five Kings mentioned in the module I've changed to the Forty Year's War (in a sense a battle of five kings- the Flaemish, the Elves, the Thyatians, the Traladarans, and the Alphatians). - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:51:26 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - re: glantrian economy On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >IMO he may suspect the Rad/Ambreville connection (in fact, any idiot would suspect it, since *both* Ambreville *and* Rad disappeared at the same time, and *no* other nobles disappeared at that time). Didn't Vanserie Vlaardoen- another member of the Brotherhood of the Radiance- die/disappear at around the same time? Not to mention that, as I understand things, Etienne was pretty much absent from Glantrian politics for most of the war, and it isn't the first time he's gone missing, so I don't think it would be all that obvious. Most obvious for members of the Brotherhood (even then, they all use secret names to hide their true identities). >I also think Brannart is perfectly aware of Synn's little plot and is content to let her do her stuff; since his enemy Etienne's attention will be likely focused on Synn right now, Brannart can execute his plots in relative safety. The Brannart-Etienne enmity also ties well into the canon material, as they originally came from Laterre (talk about old rivalries). I agree with the sentiment that Brannart knows of or suspects Synn's activities and just doesn't care. As for the Etienne/Brannart rivalry, most recent canon has Brannart being born on Mystara, not on Laterre, even though his ancestors did. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 00:50:03 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Hi! I´m not a historian, so this informations are just how I remember them from school. (That´s quite some time!) And from films. >>>Right! The emperor who drowned in a river in nowadays Turkey on a crusade. >I think you're thinking of Richard the Lionheart, King of England in the late 12th century. No! I am not even sure, if they were on the same crusade. But I think both habe been on the 3rd crusade. Barbarosa has drowned. (I think on the way back to Europe or on the way to Jerusalem.) King Lionheard survived the crusade, made some enemies (for example the Austrain king). But when he then traveled back to England, he traveled through Austrian territory, but was too proud to don his jewelry, when diguising as a commoner. So Austrian officials found him and imprisoned him. He was given back to England for a quite handsome randsom. (And the thing with Blondel, John, etc.. happened!) I think the money was paid not be King john, but by some other nobles to get their king back. There is a nice story, how Austria got its flag (red-white-red). King Rudolf fought against the heathens and after the fight, when he doned his girdle, he found just this combination on his clothes. The red had come from blood. ************************************************************ Peter Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:25:38 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sentient Races on Mystara [LONG] At 20.15 07/02/98 -0800, Matthew Levy wrote: >To whichever Mystarans it may concern: >It occurs to me that one of the problems with the transition to AD&D for Mystara (for those of us who accept it) is the confusion surrounding OD&D monsters versus AD&D monsters. The Mystara MC appendix makes matters worse instead of better; it seems to have been written mostly from a few of the old modules without ANY reference to the GAZ series. Entirely new monsters are given there with no context for placing them in various settings, and old ones are completely ignored or misused. Furthermore, the random encounter tables in the back are haphazard and generic. BTW: a few years ago I made my own random encounter tables for Darokin, Sind, Ethengar and the Upper Broke Lands (before WotI). They're available for download in the Mystara section of my own page. Those table are based not only on terrain type, but also on geographical location and historical info. For Glantri I usually use the tables at the end of the creature catalog, because IMO all sort of monsters can be found wandering in teh Principalities. >Geonid: These little humanoid rock people were first introduced as living in the Black Mountains on the border of Hule; I know of no other location in which they are found, although the listing in the MMCA says they have interactions with mountain dwarves, which would mean they are at least occasionally found in the eastern part of Brun, perhaps in the Altan Tepes. Gaz13 mentions Geonids in the Shadow Elves caves, both in the mines south of Alfmyr and in the Warrens. I've used the Geonids near Alfmyr several times IMC. They're tough opponents for PCs. (I've used them in the upcoming Almanac too). - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:37:01 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Witches spells & powers On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, DM wrote: >>Why can't she go to Glantri City? Prince Morphail certainly seems able to do so. Also, why does she have to go there? Can't she learn the abilities herself? >Because Morphail doesn't let his servants go too far from their dominions out of fear their real nature is discovered. Also, she cannot advance by herself: according to the rules in GAZ 3, each time a new ability can be attained, the mage must learn it from his master, spendin many weeks of learning and paying a large amount of money IIRC. Then the question arises *who* is Szasza's teacher (and whether he still keeps contact). Perhaps she could invite her teacher to her tower to learn more. Additionally, it seems Szasza should really try to pursue her plan of getting married to Morphail, to get greater freedom of movement. ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:38:00 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [MYSTARA] - House of Kol House of Kol New Kolland Main resources: 2 mineral (craterdust, bluestone, possibly normal minerals) Total population: 29560 (figure from G:KoM). I assume that 20% (5910) lives in permanent settlements and is thus considered rural. Others are borderland. Tax Income: 1774 dc Resource Income: 10641 dc Standard Income: 14188 dc Note: I doubt Kol gets all possible income every month, so reduce these figures as desired. In particular, standard income is probably almost nothing (humanoids don't perform many useful services). Council Tax (assuming full income collection): 5321 dc Net Cash: 7094 dc Overhead (60%): 4256 dc Available Cash: 2838 dc XP/month: 12415 (Kol should be rising in levels pretty quickly if you give him that much XP). ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 06:17:09 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #65 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 419b27a425b9790a5e67bc1b33587136 ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:39:03 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [MYSTARA] - House of Hillsbury House of Hillsbury Fenswick Since PWA mentions that Jaggar von Drachenfels campaigned for Fenswick's borders to be extended south to Belcadiz and east to Glenargyll, here's a rough diagram of what I assume the new borders are: M H m m f m m H m m h m m m m m m m m m m=mountain hex, h=hill hex, f=tower of Fenswick, capital letter means a river in the hex Main resources: 2 animal (sheep/goats, fish) 16 hexes: mountain; borderland; pop. 896; tax 45 dc 1 hex: mountain, river; borderland; pop. 84; tax 4 dc 1 hex: hills; rural; pop. 280; tax 28 dc 2 hexes: hills, river; rural; pop. 840; tax 84 dc Fenswick: village; pop. 525; tax 53 dc Total population: 1645 rural, 980 borderland Tax Income: 214 dc Resource Income: 854 dc Standard Income: 1708 dc Council Tax: 555 dc Net Cash: 513 dc Overhead (40%): 205 dc Available Cash: 308 dc XP/month: 1068 ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:42:58 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [MYSTARA] - Conclusion about Glantrian economy posts There, that's all of them. Now, what can we learn from all this info? The most obvious thing is that most lesser dominions really suck, due to low population (most are in mountains or hills). OTOH, most principalities are really great, netting several thousand ducats every month. I can certainly see why lesser nobles want to become princes. Incidentally, much of the principalities' wealth comes from the towns - e.g. Krondahar (Braastar is the second largest town in Glantri after the capital). ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:55:53 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - re: glantrian economy On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 Alex295@aol.com wrote: >Well it was Brannart who sent a minion to slay the Alphatian elven spy. This act led to the declaration of war between Alphatia and Glantri. Which was most certainly a plan of his to occupy Etienne so that he could perform some other plots. >But yes, I agree that Brannart was overlooked. Which is a shame because he has the potential of being the big dog in Glantri. That is depending on how you Heh heh. Well, since I have been graciously allowed to join the Net-Almanac team, you can be sure that Brannart isn't going to be overlooked anymore... >play the fate of Etienne/Rad after WotI. If only he can eliminate Morphail...... This whole thing could lead to an interesting four-way intrigue. Synn vs. Etienne vs. Brannart vs. Morphail. Sounds scary. And it could become even more convoluted if young Angus McGregor decides to take part. >Brannart/Etienne relationship- I find it amusing that Brannart is technically a member of a long standing enemy. Does he know Etienne is really Rad? Maybe. But even he will be skeptical. "Etienne is Rad. Bah....d'Ambreville propaganda." Well, yes, but he doesn't entirely discount the possibility... BTW did you notice that of the six Radiance users, half are from House Crownguard (Brannart, Angus, and Alasdair McAllister). Hmm, this could develop into a serious problem for Etienne... >BTW I am playing Brannart in a PBEM. As you can imagine I am playing him in some most unusual ways. Ask Kaviyd, as GM he can attest to that. I cannot go on too far as some other players may be watching. This sounds interesting. Care to tell more (in private e-mail if you don't want others to watch)? ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:02:14 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - German names On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: >BTW, Jaggar is NOT a German name, at least no name known to me. How about Morgaithe (Jaggar's father)? >Freiburg - Free Castle How ironic. BTW, if anyone needs Russian words (for use with Traladarans), you need only ask. ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:17:45 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia At 11:12 09-02-98 -0800, you wrote: >At 01:01 AM 2/9/98 +0100, you wrote: >>Hi! >>>>>Any society, in fact, >>>>>that relies on slavery is going to find itself in decline. >>Sorry, I meant, where does this therory come from? >>From my own studies in world history. Hardly any reason for anyone else to ttake up my assertion though...Perhaps I will write an essay on it and submit it to the list... >>>Basically I believe a society either rids itself of the practice or dies. >>Why? >>What about the Romans? The Greek? >>Of course they declined, but why should slavery be responsible? >Because in my "observations" in world history every society that relies (note I said "relies") on slavery becomes complacent and lazy. They begin to believe that they are superior and that is when they are ultimately taken over (usually by one of their "inferiors"). As far as I recall there was never a slave rebellion in Athens, neither did they fall to any inferiors unless you consider Philip and alexander the Great and the Romans for their inferiors. The same goes for most of the rest the greek city states. Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:37:19 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) At 13:25 09-02-98 EST, you wrote: ><< Hmm, how about... >1) Greetings and welcome to Heldann. >2) Halt slime! Throw down your weapons and put your face on the floor! >3) Step this way please. >4) It is you! >How about some good German names? How about some translations of fantasy monsters? >> And for those of you going to the Northern Reaches wanting the frases in Danish: 1) Hjerteligt velkommen 2) Holdt! Smid våbene! Ned og lig på jorden! 3) Vil de venligst følge med! 4) Det er dig! and some monsters: dwarf dværg elf elver halfling halving troll trold mage troldmand priest præst dragon drage fighter kriger thief tyv monk munk faerie fe guant kæmpe giant from the Scandinavian mythology Jætte skeleton skelet ghost spøgelse about some of the letters: æ = ae, ø = oe, å = aa. Let me know if there is any further interest in Danish frases and names. Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:13:26 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystera GMing At 11:20 10-02-98 -0500, you wrote: >At 06:18 AM 2/10/98 PST, you wrote: >>I would like some general advise as to what is intreasting in the Mystera setting, and what kind of things you enjoyed as players so I can think about implementing them in my campanien as well. >Small list follows... >1. For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky; 2. The Gods Must Be Crazy: Wrath of the Immortals, World War I in a fantasy world. >3. These Are the Voyages: The Princess Ark series 4. Surroundsound Fantasy: >5. Reigning Cats and Dogs: Lupin and Rakasta PCs, in different settings (Savage Coast, the invisible moon). Also try get your hands on the almanacs. They're pretty good and several parts of them can be played as mini campaigns. Another advantage is the differences from the normal AD&D fantasy, such as the non-evil underground dvelling elves (shadow elves with some unique magic), the proud non-greedy dwarves of Rockhome, a lovely halfling nation, that will kick anyones butt if they aren't careful (especially those dwarves after their last invation), the flying city serraine and an incredible old history strectching thousands of years back without ever reaching the very first days of its creation. And no irritating supreme archmages like Elminster and his ilk. Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:29:37 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Lille My wrote: >troll trold >mage troldmand This is interesting... You mean a mage is called a "troll-something"? ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:10:32 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Morrow Subject: [MYSTARA] - Sulescu and Morphail? Could someone with access to Gaz 1 or K:KoA tell me if either includes the age of Lord Zemiros Sulescu? (My copies are on another continent.) He is the nosferatu rler of the Estate of Sulescu. I am hypothesizing a possible connection between him and Prince Morphail of Boldavia. I know that Morphail became a nosferatu circa 720 AC. As I recall K:KoA mentions that Sulescu experimented with creating other nosferatu in his youth, but it didnt turn out well. - -III *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:16:01 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Morrow Subject: [MYSTARA] - Hin Immortals Has anyone given any thought to the Halfling Immortals? Gaz 8 names three: Nob Nar, Brendorhin, and Coberham Shadowglint. Nob Nar is apparently considered their primary patron. Since Halfling Masters often pursue Immortality in the Sphere of Thought and because of the description of Nob Nar given in Gaz 8 sounds like an Epic Hero, I would assume that that is his sphere. I would say that Coberham Shadowglint is another name for the Halfling Immortal, Usamigaras (whose character I base upon the pregenerated character Raven from the third Immortal adventure). Usamigaras would be th one responsible for giving the Halfling Masters their spell casting abilities. The only question is whether he became Immortal before the Halflings encountered the Gentle Folk. Brendorhin might be the Immortal of Thought who sponsored Nob Nar, (maybe Tyche or Diulanna) or as I am more inclined to think, given the Halfling's connection to the land, magic resistance, and denial ability, an Immortal of Matter, such as Terra or Djea. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #65 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, February 11 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 066 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) [MYSTARA] - Russian words Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - German names [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Slavery! Re: [MYSTARA] - Hin Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - German names Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - German names Re: [MYSTARA] - German names Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Sulescu and Morphail? Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Russian words Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Slavery! Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Slavery! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:00:57 +0100 From: Lille My Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) At 12:29 11-02-98 +0200, you wrote: >On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Lille My wrote: >>troll trold >>mage troldmand >This is interesting... You mean a mage is called a "troll-something"? (precisely troll-man if translating literally and for a female mage it is toldkvinde ("troll-woman" and they married and had a lot of little troll-kids)) Err..Actually yes... I don't know the origin of the words, so I can't explain why it is so, but I'll try look it up, but nobody thinks of a troldmand being in anyway related to a troll. Lille My *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:38:28 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Lille My wrote: >>troll trold >>mage troldmand >This is interesting... You mean a mage is called a "troll-something"? In the scandinavian languages the word troll (trold in danish) is an interesting one. The word was originally used describing both supernatural creatures and activities(ie. magic.) Its association with the "modern" troll(ie large ugly humanoids) is of a much more recent origin. These creatures were created in the 16th-17thC. However, the Trolls/Giants/Jotuns of Norse Mythology were known to be very apt with magic. By the way. Does anyone know where the Green, regenearting AD&D troll comes from? It has nothing to do with scandinavian fairy-tales/Mytholgy, and personally I think its a silly creature) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:54:31 +0200 (EET) From: Aleksei Andrievski Subject: [MYSTARA] - Russian words Oh well, I'll just post the Russian translations for you to use... Oh yeah, Russian isn't at all easy to write in Latin letters... >>1) Greetings and welcome to Karameikos. Zdravstvuite! Dobro pozhalovat' v Karameikos! >>2) Halt slime! Throw down your weapons and put your face on the floor! Stoi sliznyak! Bros' oruzhiye na zemlyu i lozhis' na pol mordoi vniz! >>3) Step this way please. Sleduite za mnoi. >>4) It is you! Eto ty! GAZ1 and Player's Survival Guide gives Slavic names. Some of the most common ones: Ivan Sergei Piotr Andrei Aleksei Aleksandr Vladimir Igor Oleg Nikolai Pavel Mihail Vasily Boris And female ones: Olga Yekaterina or Katerina Natalia (Natasha) Anna Darya Aleksandra Yelizaveta Anastasia Maria Remember also that among friends, shortened names are often used (like Ivan=Vanya, Aleksandr=Sasha, etc.) Some monsters: >dwarf gnom (AFAIK Russians don't make a distinctions between dwarves and gnomes) >elf elf >halfling HObbit >troll troll >mage mag, volSHEbnik (wizard) >priest sviaSHEnnik, pop (a bit derisive) >dragon draKON >fighter VOin >thief vor >monk moNAH >faerie elf (neither do Russians destinguish between elves and faeries ;) >giant veliKAN >skeleton skeLET >ghost PRIzrak orc ork horse kon' (male), LOshad' (female) vampire vamPIR devil DYAvol fiend (general) chort Some items: sword mech shield um... well, I'm not going to write it here, but it sounds almost the same as a very well-known four-letter word beginning with 's' lance/spear kopYO pike/lance PIka club duBIna mace bulaVA armor dosPEhi helmet shlem backpack RAnets or ryukZAK sack meSHOK All words are pronounced as written, according to phonetical rules. Thus 'a' is pronounced as u in cut, 'i' as ee in keep, 'u' as oo in book, 'e' as in bet, and o as in pot. Capital letters indicate stressed syllables. Feel free to write more. I always enjoy a linguistic theme. ***************************** "We are the Harpers. We are the Lord ** ** Protectors of the Realms. Fools, all - but ** Aleksei Andrievski ** the Gods look down and smile glory upon us." ** k24023@kyyppari.hkkk.fi ** "Never cross spells with gods, archmages, ** aka Solmyr the Archmage ** liches - or Harpers." ** ** "Harpers rush in where fools fear to tread." ***************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:43:00 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Peter Balazs wrote: >Hi! >>Thank you very much, my friend. Now tell me...would "Ritterburg" be translated as Knighttown? >Nope! "Burg" is "castle", so "Ritterburg" would be the castle of a knight! But isn't it true that the endin "burg" is often used in the end of names of towns/cities such as in Hamburg? This would mean that Ritterburg is a city built near a knights Castle. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:45:22 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - German names On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >BTW, if anyone needs Russian words (for use with Traladarans), you need only ask. How about some slavic names? I dont want to call all my NPC's Igor ;P Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:03:33 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Slavery! I've been paying attention to this discussion about slavery. If there is one thing I like about Mystara it is slavery. Not that I am in favour of slavery in the real world ofcourse, but this litle detail makes Mystara a tiny bit politically uncorrect. I'm really happy that Thyatis has slaves. A slavery-based economy heightens the average Thyatian citizen's living standards dramatically. However, where do the slaves come from? AFAIK the Romans got so many slaves because they were almost constantly at war. The Thyatians seem to be more peaceful(This should change IMO) so they cant get as many prisoners of war. Criminals and the like could probably be sentenced to slavery as could barbarians captured on the Davanian coast. The latter probably being the largest source of slaves. Also I miss the presence of Sefs. Gaz1 (Karameikos) seems to imply that Karameikos is quite unusual for not having serfs. However I'm having trouble finding nations that do. Thyatis would have litle need to due to the presence of slaves and in Darokin, there is this great middle class. (How do they manage that?) My only candidates for feudal countries having serfs are Heldann and Norwold. Comments? Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:18:15 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hin Immortals On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Andrew Morrow wrote: >Has anyone given any thought to the Halfling Immortals? Gaz 8 names three: Nob Nar, Brendorhin, and Coberham Shadowglint. Nob Nar is apparently considered their primary patron. Since Halfling Masters often pursue Immortality in the Sphere of Thought and because of the description of Nob Nar given in Gaz 8 sounds like an Epic Hero, I would assume that that is >his sphere. I would say that Coberham Shadowglint is another name for the Halfling Immortal, Usamigaras (whose character I base upon the pregenerated character Raven from the third Immortal adventure). Usamigaras would be th one responsible for giving the Halfling Masters their spell casting abilities. The only question is whether he became Immortal before the Halflings encountered the Gentle Folk. Brendorhin might be the Immortal of Thought who sponsored Nob Nar, (maybe Tyche or Diulanna) or as I am more inclined to think, given the Halfling's connection to the land, magic resistance, and denial ability, an Immortal of Matter, such as Terra or Djea. I like these ideas. Nob Nar This is probably the first of the Hin to reach immortality. He probably did so long before the Hin came to the Five Shires. Coberham Shadowglimt(Usamigaras) I like the theory that Coberham is Usamigaras because Usamigaras seems to have too litle connection with Mystara. It would be reasonable that he is revered among the Hin, not only the psychotic Cynecedians. Could you give some more information about the personality you have developed for him? Brendorhin (alias Tyche, Diualanna or Matter immortal such as Terra or Djaea) An immortal from the Sphere of Matter sounds like the best idea so far. I have speculated that the origin of the Hin is associated with Elves. After all the Hin appear as the elves reach the Addakian Sound in Ilsundals Great Migration. The Hin could be an offshoot of the Elven Race. In any case Nob Nar could be one of the Immortals worshipped at that time by the Elves. Ordana could be a candidate. She created the elves but they abandoned her later on. Maybe the last followers of Ordana remained with the Hin and this created the identity of Brendorhin, who was later sought out by the young hero Hob Nar. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:22:30 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: ><< I agree. This will help developing Mystara into a more unique setting aaswell. Im all pro Alfheim back to the surface elves and Oenkmar to the Shadowelves. >> >Why not Alfheim to An Alfheim/Shadowelves coalition, Aengmor City Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:13:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #66 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: d05d9d17f9fe15db2771bb878248919b >to the SE renegades and the caverns to the third group of SEs ? The Alfheim elves were never that hostile to the Shadow Elves. They even at one time invited them to live in the Alfheim forest. But after the Shadow Elves invaded the Canolbarth Forest and desecrated it, I think the Red Arrow elves and their friends should get their revengenge... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:25:32 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - German names On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: ><< It's as close as "bodendrucker" is to German. Think "jaeger". >It's a job or hobby or a surname, but not a given name. Names are often made up by professions and the like. like Smith or Butler. There was also this Norwegian guy called Hans Jaeger IRC. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:09:31 -0800 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) At 01:00 AM 2/11/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hi! >It´s quite dificult to try to write the pronounciation also, but I´ll try! Try something like this: Give us some common letter/letter combinations and their pronunciations. For instance, how does one pronounce the "ch" when it comes at the beginning of a word and does this differ when it is in the middle? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:01:49 -0800 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - German names This discussion of my name is starting to irritate me. You are correct that "Jaggar" is not a typical name for my family. There are particular reasons for my naming. Suffice to say, call me Jaeger if you like--I will answer. There are more important things happening around me right now than a discussion of my name. My name is unimportant... As for the Blackmoor device I own and my so-called "relationship to Blackmoor", well I can tell you there is no relationship between myself and Blackmoor. I found the device when I was wandering the world prior to my ascension to Prince. I hope there need be no further discussion of this as I really do not relish the idea of discussing my past. - --Jaggar Drachenfels At 05:49 PM 2/10/98 EST, you wrote: ><< It's as close as "bodendrucker" is to German. Think "jaeger". >It's a job or hobby or a surname, but not a given name. >Jamuga Khan >"Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:16:40 -0800 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - German names >BTW, if anyone needs Russian words (for use with Traladarans), you need only ask. Yes! One of my characters is of mixed Thyatian/Traladaran heritage. He is a priest of Halav and somewhat a loner as he has been back in time and met the real Halav. This bothers him to some degree and he has also had to stand against the church on occassion (with the high priest's private blessing I might add). I include all the personal info just to help you think of appropriate words. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:18:53 -0800 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) >And for those of you going to the Northern Reaches wanting the frases in Danish: >1) Hjerteligt velkommen >2) Holdt! Smid våbene! Ned og lig på jorden! >3) Vil de venligst følge med! >4) Det er dig! >and some monsters: >dwarf dværg >elf elver >halfling halving >troll trold >mage troldmand >priest præst >dragon drage >fighter kriger >thief tyv >monk munk >faerie fe >guant kæmpe >giant from the Scandinavian mythology Jætte >skeleton skelet >ghost spøgelse >about some of the letters: >æ = ae, ø = oe, å = aa. >Let me know if there is any further interest in Danish frases and names. Thanks alot! Now, how does one pronounce "ae"? Is it a long "I" as in the word "Bike"? And how does one pronounce "aa"? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:20:40 -0800 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sulescu and Morphail? At 11:10 AM 2/11/98 +0000, you wrote: >Could someone with access to Gaz 1 or K:KoA tell me if either includes the age of Lord Zemiros Sulescu? (My copies are on another continent.) I am sorry, but that is sooo cool! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:23:45 -0800 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) <> >By the way. Does anyone know where the Green, regenearting AD&D troll comes from? It has nothing to do with scandinavian fairy-tales/Mytholgy, and personally I think its a silly creature) I think the AD&D troll is Gary Gygax's (remember him?) interpretation of the bridge troll of 3 goats fame. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:27:33 -0800 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Russian words At 12:54 PM 2/11/98 +0200, you wrote: >Oh well, I'll just post the Russian translations for you to use... Oh yeah, Russian isn't at all easy to write in Latin letters... As my campaign revolves more along the relationship of friendly Traladarans (as opposed to enemy Hattians) how about some friendly translations? For instance: 1) Dear one, your meal is ready. 2) Mother, I have returned. 3) Yes sir, it will be as you say. 4) There is no land I love more than ancient Traladara. Thanks! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:32:24 +0100 (MET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >Thanks alot! Now, how does one pronounce "ae"? Is it a long "I" as in the word "Bike"? >And how does one pronounce "aa"? Let me help Lille My out here. This is a bit tricky but here we go: ae is pronounced like the a in Cat. aa is pronounced almost like the o in Force. and oe is pronouced like the ea in Earth. This might not be axactly correct, but it should be close to it. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes | "Twas brillig and the slithy toves Email: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no | Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: or hoc@nuts.edu | All mimsy were the borogoves, http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc | And the mome raths outgrabe."-Lewis Caroll *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:38:38 -0800 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes >The Alfheim elves were never that hostile to the Shadow Elves. They even at one time invited them to live in the Alfheim forest. Well, they invited them a little too quickly then when they saw how many Shadowelves there were they were even quicker to renege. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:36:29 -0800 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Slavery! At 01:03 PM 2/11/98 +0100, you wrote: >>Comments about Mystara and slavery snipped<< >However, where do the slaves come from? AFAIK the Romans got so many slaves because they were almost constantly at war. The Thyatians seem to be more peaceful I just ran a Thyatian campaign in which all characters started as slaves. They were: A young Hattian lad sold by his poor parents, A young Hinterland lad who had been captured (he termed it freedom fighting, they termed it mere vandalism) and sentenced to slavery, A young halfling pirate who had been captured off the coast of Borydos, A young Ochalean (I can't remember how he earned slavery), A young dwarf berserker who had accidently killed another dwarf (The dwarves could not stomach putting the poor lady to death, they knew it had not been entirely her fault because of her malady), And a young Alphatian who had been captured on the Isle of Dawn. Slaves are also imported from other slave countries. >Also I miss the presence of Sefs. Gaz1 (Karameikos) seems to imply that Karameikos is quite unusual for not having serfs. However I'm having trouble finding nations that do. You are right. Of course, Gaz1 was the first. IMC Norwold is ruled by King Ericall and his noble lords. However, he gives a great deal of autonomy to his lords. So a traveller can literally pass from a fairly free dominion into one which is very restrictive. Feudalism is practiced in many parts of the kingdom. Heldann has an even nastier feudalism. Basically all non-warriors are considered the property of the government. Thyatis would have litle need to due to >the presence of slaves and in Darokin, there is this great middle class. (How do they manage that?) Free market economy! :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 11 Feb 1998 11:14:08 -0300 From: 3@giga.com.ar Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Slavery! >However, where do the slaves come from? AFAIK the Romans got so many slaves because they were almost constantly at war. The Thyatians seem to be more peaceful(This should change IMO) so they cant get as many prisoners of war. Criminals and the like could probably be sentenced to slavery as could barbarians captured on the Davanian coast. The latter probably being the largest source of slaves. I don't know if you know Dark Sun (a world of AD&D). But in Dark Sun you have a city-state that have many slaves (Tyr). But there aren't many wars. So why there are so many slaves? 1. I think that to become a slave you don't have to do something against the rules. A noble can simply take you like a slave (like in the feudal age with de jewish). 2. There are mercants from other places that sell slaves. It's a good economic activity!. And you can buy reach a big number of them. Is this correct? Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #66 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:50:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #67 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 72c3ae98aade53e77646e2a92b93c1ab mystara-digest Wednesday, February 11 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 067 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Spanish and Hebrew words [MYSTARA] - Immortal Candidates Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker Re: [MYSTARA] - Spanish and Hebrew words Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystera GMing Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker Re: [MYSTARA] - German names Re: [MYSTARA] - Sulescu and Morphail? Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Setting Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Slavery! Re: [MYSTARA] - Spanish and Hebrew words [MYSTARA] - Re: Hin Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystera GMing Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Hin Immortals Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 11 Feb 1998 11:14:10 -0300 From: 3@giga.com.ar Subject: [MYSTARA] - Spanish and Hebrew words If there are so many languages I'd to add two: Spanish and Hebrew. Names in Spanish: Rosa Rocio Alejandra Maria Jose Roberto Andres Names in Hebrew: Meital Moran Yosi Haim Abraham Shalom Weapons in Spanish: Escudo Shield Armadura Armor Espada Sword Casco Helmet Arco Bow Ballesta Crossbow Daga Dagger Cuerda Rope Monedas Coins Weapons in Hebrew (it's very hard to write with latin caracters): Magen Shield Shirion Armor Herev Sword Kasda Helmet Keshet Bow Rove Keshet Crossbow Pigion Dagger Hevel Rope Matbeot Coins I hope it will be useful Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:38:27 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Morrow Subject: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Candidates With the help of Shawn Stanleys list of Nearly Immortals I have been working up some information about what has happened to the current Immortal candidates during and post WotI. The information is spun out of whole cloth in the hope that it will generate some discussion about these interesting characters. I direct you to Shawns list, on his homepage, for the canon information on these characters. Barimoor: (MU36, patron Rathanos, Energy) In 1000 AC this displaced Alphatian was well on his way to becoming an Immortal. A patient sort, he figured that it would take another 200 years to complete his path. In 1007 AC he came a step closer to Immortality when he uncovered the Pearl of Oblivion (a lesser artifact of Energy- see Gaz 2) in the Emirate of Nithia. However, in 1009 AC, during the Week Without Magic, disaster struck. Without his magic, and with the wards that kept his menagerie of monsters at bay failing, there was nothing to stop him from being torn to pieces by his own pets. The monsters, trapped in Barimoors cavern complex under the Ylari desert, began praying on each other. The strongest and most clever began finding passages to the surface. This lead to a rash of attacks by monsters that should not be found in the Ylari climate. One of Barimoors apprentices, an Alaysian mage now living in Selenica, heard of the attacks and deduced what must have happened. He is planning to hire a group of adventurers to clear out the caverns. Of course, then they will have to die so that he can seize Barimoors secrets before any of the other apprentices hear of Barimoors demise. As the adventurers explore Barimoors lair and discover the extent of the monster infestation, they will find evidence that their patron has lied to them. The only way to stop the monsters before them and the murderous mage behind them may be to return Barimoor to life... Doriath: (Elf 10/attack class I, patron: Ordana, Time) When Doriath was young he adventured extensively throughout the Sea of Dread. He encountered the Cult of Ordana in Minothrad and remained interested in the ancient Immortal after he became King. Sometime before 1000 AC Ordana became his sponsor. Between 1000 and 1005 AC he searched sporadically for the time travel device that he needed. His search had to be put off when the conflict with the Shadow Elves began. Post Wrath Doriath does not believe that the elves will ever be able to return to Canolbarth and dreams of leading his people to build a new home in Norwold. He believes that King Ericall will not begrudge him the land he needs if he provides military support against the Heldannic Knights. He has some followers among the Alfheim refugees. As a King without a Kingdom, Doriath has more time to search for the time travel device which he needs. Kaladan, The Mastershaper: (M36/WTI21, patron Orcus, Entropy) Kaladan was in his tower in the Kingdom of Blackheart when Alphatia sank. He doesnt much care where he performs his experiments, so the move hasnt really upset his plans. Thanatos discovered this maniac many years ago and found him intriguing, but probably not stable enough to complete the path to Immortality. However, he ordered Orcus, a former lycantherope himself, to sponsor Kaladan. Kaladan has recently come to the attention of Ka, who doesnt want the HW infested with lycantheropes (presently only werejaguars and sabertooths are native to the HW- see PC4). He is looking for a likely band of adventurers to put a stop to Kaladans activities. Leo Variantia (F34/T-Rake-18/M14/C13/WTI36/WFO13/WBA9/WBE10, patron: Maat, Matter) Leo first encountered the cult of the Immortal Maat in the region which is now the Emirate of Nithia in Ylarum. She eventually became his sponsor. He quested for, and found, the Ivory Plume of Maat during each on his incarnations. After finding it a final time he was forced to entrust it to a friend, a Huge Gold Dragon living in the Five Shires. to keep it out of the clutches of clerics of Talitha which have been hounding him for over a century. During Wrath he fought on the side of Thyatis on the Isle of Dawn. At his latest meeting with Maat, having completed his quest, Leo expected to be made an Immortal. But it was not fated to be (yet). Maat set him a final task, to free Sind from the rule of the Master of Hule. Leo is currently searching out his surviving adventuring companions from his Quest and Task to help him with his efforts. Mylertendal: (MU36, patron Alphatia, Energy) Mylertendal was indeed killed during the Week Without Magic. But after the sinking of Alphatia she was raised by the Immortals like so many of her fellow citizens. She has plenty to do rebuilding Haven, and having just been commissioned to help build the new Alphatian capital. She is still in no hurry to become Immortal. Starwatcher: (E10/magic level 20, patron Ilsundal, Energy) Starwatcher gained the sponsorship of Ilsundal shortly after leaving Alfheim for Wendar with the rest of the Longrunner clan. When the Shadow Elves put out their call for help he traveled to Aengomar to help reverse the damage to the forest. His Trial is to design a magic item capable of reversing the damage to the forest. The components for this item will include Blackflame and water from the Pool of the Moon in the Sind desert (see X4). His Testimony will include recreating the forest, larger and more beautiful than it was before. Needless to say he is in for a long path. Travestis: (34TT/10D patron: Masawu, Entropy) The corrupted treant is approaching the end of his path to Immortality. His part in helping the Shadow Elves corrupt Canolbarth forest and corrupting the spell beyond their ability to reverse it, fulfilled his Testimony. He has only his Task to complete, the full scope of which is unknown, but which will include making sure that the Shadow and surface Elves do not make peace and promoting conflict throughout the area. Tylion IV (Master Terari): (M36, patron Ssu-Ma, Thought) Tylion was accepted by his patron, Ssu-Ma in 1008 AC. His founding of the Karameikan School of Magecraft is part of his Testimony. Even now he is searching for a worthy successor. However, the old mage is in no hurry. Prince Morphail Gorevitch- Woszlany: (M28, patron: Alphaks, Entropy) Following his defeat during Wrath, Alphaks needs a victory. One of his efforts to regain face among the Immortals is by sponsoring Morphail. Alphaks has been controlling Morphail, partially through the promise of eventual sponsorship for nearly 300 years. The Prince of Boldavia has begun his Quest for an Entropic artifact. Prince Brannart McGregor: (M33, patron: Thanatos, Entropy) Brannart has finally uncovered enough information to petition for an Immortal sponsor. He is presently crafting his gift before traveling to the sight of petition- the temple of Thanatos on the Isle of Oceania. There is a high level Halfling Master in Gaz 8, whose name has escaped me. (patron: Nob Nar, Thought) She was a famous Halfling pirate before she became a Master. She spent most of Wrath Questing for the Diamond Orb of Tyche. She spent several years post- Wrath aboard her new ship hunting Hulean sponsored pirates in the Sea of Dread. She was also involved in the Hin attack on Black Eagle Barony in 1011 AC. One of the PWAs mentions a mysterious Polymath wandering through Azca (C32/ F8/T-Rake-9/FS8, patron: Atruaghin). Originally an cleric of Atruaghin from the Atruaghin Plateau, this unnamed candidate found his way to the HW. He has been reborn as an Azcan warrior, an Oltec Rake, and a Feathered Serpent. He is attempting to revive the cults of Ka and Ixion and turn the balance of power back away from Atzanteotl. Lambert Bohn (C34, patron Khronos, Time) Bohn was introduced in M2. He might be the power behind the throne in one of the up and coming Isle of Dawn nations, such as Helskir. Another option is that he may be one of the foreign advisers to Queen Yrsa the Wise of Ostland. He could be helping her guide her young nation into the eleventh century. Gargantua (M36?) The mad wizard Gargantua may or may not actually exist. No Immortal will admit to sponsoring him, but someone must be encouraging him. During the Week Without Magic even more of his pets escaped (and you thought they were turning in strange places already.) In other interesting news, in 1011 AC, on the Day of Dread, a small army and quite a few gargantuan monsters landed on the Protectorate of Sclaras in Thyatis. The Week Without Magic had killed many of the wizards. The army and monsters got several more. And then there were those who came out of hiding after the Day of Dread and returned home, only to find Gargantuan Gray Oozes hanging from the ceiling in their bed chambers... - -III *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:47:02 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker In a message dated 98-02-10 23:18:48 EST, you write: << >Well good luck with your quest. But I remind you that justice is not only bblind but often at times easily bought. Both the Black Eagle and Bargle are wily old sorts. Both are not easily subdued. And both have shown an uncanny ability to escape justice. I fear that justice will be only attained at the point of a sword. If I recall correctly, either may be brought in dead or alive. I would opt for the former. Oh, no, they will be brought in alive to face the King himself. That is one of the requirements of this quest. Along with my squire, Lucinda, I have been searching for that wretch von Hendriks for nearly a year now. I'll find him, no matter how long it takes. >A very high level member of the Order? Hmm.....funny never heard of you. And I >thought I knew the names of most of those zealots. Zealots is such a strong word. I prefer 'faithful'. And I've been away for a few years on a personal quest, so my name isn't mentioned that often in the lists. Alexius Dannelaran>> No offense intended lad. In fact, I have to appreciate those that devote themselves to a specific Following. Myself, I care for my own. In the past, Immortals have shown little interest in benefitting any of my causes. As such, I say "screw them all". Allstrick of Alphatia *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:53:54 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spanish and Hebrew words This is wonderful. Now, how would you say "ballista" in Spanish? >Names in Spanish: >Rosa >Rocio >Alejandra >Maria >Jose >Roberto >Andres >Names in Hebrew: >Meital >Moran >Yosi >Haim >Abraham >Shalom >Weapons in Spanish: >Escudo Shield >Armadura Armor >Espada Sword >Casco Helmet >Arco Bow >Ballesta Crossbow >Daga Dagger >Cuerda Rope >Monedas Coins >Weapons in Hebrew (it's very hard to write with latin caracters): Magen Shield >Shirion Armor >Herev Sword >Kasda Helmet >Keshet Bow >Rove Keshet Crossbow >Pigion Dagger >Hevel Rope >Matbeot Coins >I hope it will be useful >Jonathan Leibiusky >edu@giga.com.ar >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:50:51 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystera GMing At 11:13 AM 2/11/98 +0100, you wrote: >Also try get your hands on the almanacs. They're pretty good and several parts of them can be played as mini campaigns. Another advantage is the differences from the normal AD&D fantasy, such as the non-evil underground dvelling elves (shadow elves with some unique magic), the proud non-greedy dwarves of Rockhome, a lovely halfling nation, that will kick anyones butt if they aren't careful (especially those dwarves after their last invation), the flying city serraine and an incredible old history strectching thousands of years back without ever reaching the very first days of its creation. And no irritating supreme archmages like Elminster and his ilk. >Lille My Terari/Tylion, Eriadna, Zandor (not anymore), Barrimoor, Etienne D'Ambreville, Brannart, Morphail, and a whole bunch more floating around in Alphatia. Any of them could be considered a 'supreme archmage' depending on where the campaign is set. But, as you point out, they're not irritating :-) Glen Sprigg *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:59:12 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker In a message dated 98-02-11 00:18:14 EST, you write: << >Sorry, can't say I've heard of either one of you... >--Halav Redhair, Immortal patron of...well, you know. Since when do Immortals get involved in these threads?! Besides, you're the patron of Traladarans. Look at my name; I'm of Thyatian descent. I follow the Church of Karameikos, and my personal patron is Diulanna. I respect the traditions that have kept your memory alive, but you're not directly influencing my life at all. Sorry about that. Alexius >> I have to second Alexius. I have already expressed my view of Immortals and will not again. They know how I feel and exactly why I feel that way. Halav is a piss poor example of an Immortal. His favored people lived in squaller until the Thyatians conquered them. The only Traldar that accomplished anything were the Milenians who abandoned their self appointed King and fled south. I suggest the Traldar turn from their epic Halav and look toward a reasonable future. A future under the guidance of a man, not some obsolete philosophy. Best Regards, Allstrick of Alphatia *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:00:26 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - German names On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: ><< It's as close as "bodendrucker" is to German. Think "jaeger". Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:50:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #67 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 72c3ae98aade53e77646e2a92b93c1ab >It's a job or hobby or a surname, but not a given name. In Germany, yes, but consider in the USA, where it is not unheard-of for a surname to be adopted as a given name. The names "Clark" and "Douglas" are examples of this. We also don't have an invasionary state dictating what we can name our children, so the idea of naming a kid anything at all is not inconceivable. (There was one poor girl named LaTrine, believe it or not...) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:55:20 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sulescu and Morphail? At 11:10 AM 2/11/98 +0000, you wrote: >Could someone with access to Gaz 1 or K:KoA tell me if either includes the age of Lord Zemiros Sulescu? (My copies are on another continent.) He is the nosferatu rler of the Estate of Sulescu. I am hypothesizing a possible connection between him and Prince Morphail of Boldavia. I know that Morphail became a nosferatu circa 720 AC. As I recall K:KoA mentions that Sulescu experimented with creating other nosferatu in his youth, but it didnt turn out well. The boxed set doesn't say, but GAZ1 says, "Sulescu is the being for whom the village was named, 300 years ago." It doesn't say that's how old he is or how long he's been a vampire, but he's been around at least that time, which places him around 700 AC. So he could very well be involved with Morphail's origins. Glen Sprigg *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:58:09 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) At 12:38 PM 2/11/98 +0100, you wrote: >By the way. Does anyone know where the Green, regenearting AD&D troll comes from? It has nothing to do with scandinavian fairy-tales/Mytholgy, and personally I think its a silly creature) Just a guess, but Poul Anderson's "Three Hearts and Three Lions", written in the 1950's, describes a troll which is basically identical to the AD&D version. It regenerates, the bits and pieces attack individually, fire turns it into a crispy critter, and it's got rubbery green skin. Sounds like the inspiration for the troll we all know and hate, yes? Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:04:46 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >>But here the translation: "Ich werde Dir Dein Herz herausreissen und es genuesslich verspeisen, Du unglaeubiges Auslaenderschwein!" >Ugh! I guess pronouncing that it's a nightmare for someone that doesn't speak German at all :-) Something like the following: ish vair-duh deer dein hairts hair-ows-rei-sen oont es guh-noiss-lish fair-shpei-zen, doo oon-gloib-ig-es aus-len-der-schvein Wherein "ei" is pronounced as the vowel in "dine" or "mine". The rest can be guessed at by most native speakers of English, using fairly typical English letter values. It is not exact, but it's not incredibly far off, either. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:06:36 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: >I thought it was Alexander who was felled by an arrow in the eye? If, by Alexander, you mean Alexander the Great, he drank himself to death after having to turn back from conquering lands east of India. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:07:19 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Setting On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >One thing about this campaign -- it would reverse the "balance of magic" between the Known World and the Hollow World. Adventuring in the Hollow World would be a very dangerous proposition for Known World adventurers! You noticed that, eh? That was the idea... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:09:13 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Peter Balazs wrote: >>1) Greetings and welcome to Heldann. >>1) Herzlich willkommen! >Herzlich willkommen in Helldann! Hairts-lish vil-kom-n een hel-dahn! >>2) Halt slime! Throw down your weapons and put your face on the floor! 2) Halt! Waffen fallen! Auf den Bauch legen! (Und keinen Mucks mehr!) >Halt! Waffen fallen lassen! Auf den Bauch legen! Hahlt! Vaf-n fal-en las-n! Owf dain bowkh lay-gen! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:13:08 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Peter Balazs wrote: >King Lionheard survived the crusade, made some enemies (for example the Austrain king). But when he then traveled back to England, he traveled through Austrian territory, but was too proud to don his jewelry, when diguising as a commoner. So Austrian officials found him and imprisoned It had nothing to do with "pride", and there was no such thing as Austria at that time. Richard had gotten into an argument while on the Crusade with a Prince within the Germanic (mis-named "Holy Roman") Empire. He was in disguise because he was taking a shortcut through that prince's lands. He was recognized anyway and imprisoned for ransom. There was no law requiring any noble or monarch to wear jewelry. >him. He was given back to England for a quite handsome randsom. (And the thing with Blondel, John, etc.. happened!) I think the money was paid not be King john, but by some other nobles to get their king back. There was no King John at that time, Richard was King of England. John was merely regent. Since he had no personal lands (hence his nickname, John Lackland), and since the Regent at that time did not have the authorization to reduce Royal lands, John raised the money by taxing the nobility, who in turn taxed their peasants. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:18:14 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Lille My wrote: >I don't know the origin of the words, so I can't explain why it is so, but I'll try look it up, but nobody thinks of a troldmand being in anyway related to a troll. Nobody in any way thinks of a "witch" being related to bent-cane furniture, but both come from a root meaning "to bend". From this root we got both "wicc-" and "wicker". "Wicc-" is the un-inflected form of the Old English word that was "wicce" if she was a woman and "wiccan" if he was a man. Word derivations do not always "make sense" on the first level of examination. Before I am "corrected", the Old English word for "wise one" was "wysard", combining "wys-" (wise) with "-ard" (a suffix used in "Lombard", "bastard", etc.) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:18:56 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= wrote: >By the way. Does anyone know where the Green, regenearting AD&D troll comes from? It has nothing to do with scandinavian fairy-tales/Mytholgy, and personally I think its a silly creature) >From the novel _Three Hearts and Three Lions_, by Poul Anderson. The original Paladin comes from this source, too. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:24:35 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Slavery! It is possible for slaves to have children. The child of a slave is usually a slave. On a related note, in Rome, the most acceptible religion for slaves was worship of their owners! That's right, the slave quarters had an altar dedicated to the slaves' owners. It was the owners who had the right to actually worship the gods directly. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:25:04 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spanish and Hebrew words And let us not forget "merkava"--"chariot". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:39:00 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Morrow Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Hin Immortals <<(snip) >Brendorhin might be the Immortal of Thought who sponsored Nob Nar, (maybe >Tyche or Diulanna) or as I am more inclined to think, given the Halfling's connection to the land, magic resistance, and denial ability, an Immortal of Matter, such as Terra or Djea. (snip) Brendorhin (alias Tyche, Diualanna or Matter immortal such as Terra or Djaea) An immortal from the Sphere of Matter sounds like the best idea so far. I have speculated that the origin of the Hin is associated with Elves. After all the Hin appear as the elves reach the Addakian Sound in Ilsundals Great Migration. The Hin could be an offshoot of the Elven Race. In any case Nob Nar could be one of the Immortals worshipped at that time by the Elves. Ordana could be a candidate. She created the elves but they abandoned her later on. Maybe the last followers of Ordana remained with the Hin and this created the identity of Brendorhin, who was later sought out by the young hero Hob Nar. Hvard>> The Ordana theory is interesting, but has a couple of problems. Ordana is neither an Immortal of Matter, nor an Immortal of Thought (which she would have to be if she was Nob Nar's sponsor.) Personally, I am inclined to try and keep the Hin entirely distinct from the elves. (Which is not to say that I have any better idea about who created them.) I would rather they were an entirely independent race. We already have the gnomes as a kind of younger brother race to the dwarves, why give the Hin and elves such a similar relationship? Another question springs to mind- if Brendorhin wasnt Nob Nar's sponsor, who was? - -III *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:08:00 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystera GMing And no irritating supreme archmages like Elminster aaand his ilk. >>Lille My >Terari/Tylion, Eriadna, Zandor (not anymore), Barrimoor, Etienne D'Ambreville, Brannart, Morphail, and a whole bunch more floating around in Alphatia. Any of them could be considered a 'supreme archmage' depending on where the campaign is set. But, as you point out, they're not irritating :-) You know, it is interesting that you bring this up...I am developing an idea in regards to Alphatia that I promise to explore further... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:25:04 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Hin Immortals >The Ordana theory is interesting, but has a couple of problems. Ordana is neither an Immortal of Matter, nor an Immortal of Thought (which she would have to be if she was Nob Nar's sponsor.) Personally, I am inclined to try >and keep the Hin entirely distinct from the elves. (Which is not to say that I have any better idea about who created them.) I would rather they were an entirely independent race. We already have the gnomes as a kind of younger brother race to the dwarves, why give the Hin and elves such a similar relationship? I agree with Hin being a seperate race. I mean after all, we already have a cool unique name for them (although I must admit, there are those in my group who think of them as "hens"). There origin is Davania even though there were some present in Blackmoor. Personally I like the thought of the migrating elves "discovering" the Hin in the wilds of Davania. That seems to slightly conflict with the Blackmoor situation...but then again, doesn't everything? It is not tough to get around given the fact that Thonia was an old empire and certainly did alot of commerce in different areas and colonizing... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:15:18 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Bodendruker >Halav is a piss poor example of an Immortal. *shakes head sadly* I do not envy a person who is so sad and bitter. I understand your pain and the reason you are angry with Immortals in general. I do not condone it, but I understand. His favored people lived in >squaller until the Thyatians conquered them. One can only wonder at the motives of Immortals. I will say that the "squalor" of our living conditions itself protected us from many would be conquerors. Who would want such a poor people? Historically the Thyatians only moved in to prevent any others from doing so. But I wonder if this was not foreseen and planned by the great Halav... As for "squalor", just because my people were hunters and fishermen does not make them any less than you brutes who dance about the countryside in your shiny armor, harrasing those who would rather be left alone... The only Traldar that >accomplished anything were the Milenians who abandoned their self appointed King and fled south. Actually they abandoned the country when Traladara was still made up of seperate city-states. King Halav was not yet king of all Traladara. In fact, to be honest with you, they parted as friends. King Halav understood his friend Milen's desire to lead his people to safety. >I suggest the Traldar turn from their epic Halav and look toward a reasonable future. A future under the guidance of a man, not some obsolete philosophy. Forget not that Halav was one of the few Immortals to stay out of this horrible squabble recently that left much of the world ruined. Perhaps it is for this very reason that the Kingdom of Karameikos is doing so well... As Karameikos and Stephen thrive--so to does ancient Traladara! - --Murdoch, Priest of Halav *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #67 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, February 11 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 068 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Sulescu and Morphail? Re: [MYSTARA] - Spanish and Hebrew words Re: [MYSTARA] - German names Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Endless Stair Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) [MYSTARA] - More German words Re: [MYSTARA] - German names Re: [MYSTARA] - German names Re: [MYSTARA] - German names Re: [MYSTARA] - German names Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Linguistics [MYSTARA] - D&D Questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Spanish and Hebrew words Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) [none] Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D Questions Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Slavery! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:19:50 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) At 10:18 AM 2/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= wrote: >>By the way. Does anyone know where the Green, regenearting AD&D troll comes from? It has nothing to do with scandinavian fairy-tales/Mytholgy, and personally I think its a silly creature) >>From the novel _Three Hearts and Three Lions_, by Poul Anderson. The ooriginal Paladin comes from this source, too. Well, what about Charlegmagne's paladins? Do you mean the AD&D interpretation of paladins comes from that novel rather than history? I could buy that. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:40:50 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sulescu and Morphail? In a message dated 98-02-11 08:37:31 EST, you write: << At 11:10 AM 2/11/98 +0000, you wrote: CCould someone with access to Gaz 1 or K:KoA tell me if either includes the age of Lord Zemiros Sulescu? (My copies are on another continent.) I am sorry, but that is sooo cool! >> Yes it is cool. And I thought having to run upstairs was a burden. I'll dig out both Karameikan sources and give it a look. I suspect someone else will beat me to it though. What I remember is that Sulescu is old, several centuries. I want to say he predates the Thyatian occupation. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:20:27 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spanish and Hebrew words At 10:25 AM 2/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >And let us not forget "merkava"--"chariot". For which language? And is there anyone compiling these words? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:46:49 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - German names What about Green Bay? I know the German word for green is and could probably find one for bay. But what about a term to describe the name GreenBay. Some term to make the base/colony more Heldannic and not necessarily a direct translation. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:03:57 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) << Or, if you wish to express desire instead of future tense ("I'm going to" in English can mean "I want to" as well as make a prediction), replace "werde" with "wolle".>> First: Not "wolle", but "will" ! Second: It doesn't sound good! << And there has to be something closer to "foreign infidel pig" than "unbelievable foreign pig". "Infidel" usually means "somebody of a religion I hate"... >> Believe it or not, but the translation was correct, indeed ! German is a wonderful language, isn't it? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:03:54 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Endless Stair << Which brings up another question. CM9 will probably change substantialy if played post Wrath. (The forest is dead, scads of Shadow Elves tromping around the country side, who knows what kinds of nasty monsters moving into the redecorated elven forest, Alfhiem Avengers looking for nearby staging points for raids, etc...) It will also add new urgency to exploring the swamp (why isnt it drying up with the rest of the forest?) Any other ideas? >> Riverfork Woods in Karameikos. At least my master set it there. Lord Clarion, Patriarch of Riverfork "The fact that I am paranoid does not necessarily mean that they are not chasing me." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:03:43 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) In a message dated 98-02-11 10:23:34 EST, you write: << > I thought it was Alexander who was felled by an arrow in the eye? If, by Alexander, you mean Alexander the Great, he drank himself to death after having to turn back from conquering lands east of India. >> IIRC there was some suspicion of Alexander of Macedonia's drink being poisoned. There was also mention of ongoing effects from a previous wound. Anyway he is dead. However, he has survived in name. A name which caught the attentions of my parents. They in turn gave it to me. Which also worked with the whole Catholic thing. IIRC it was Alexander's father Philip that took an arrow to the eye. But I do not think it killed him. A ruler that did die from an arrow to the eye socket was King Harold of England. Who took the arrow in the battle between his forces and William the Bastard (later the Conqueror). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:32:47 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) << Three important leaders of the lands go out... one drowned... one gave up the crusade and one... richard the lionheart fought til he got bored and was in peril of loosing his kingdom... or something. Um... I should know who the other two where just took that class last semester heh. ;) Barbarossa and the king of France. Wasn't his name Philip? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:32:45 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) << Ugh! I guess pronouncing that it's a nightmare for someone that doesn't speak German at all :-) >> Probably! But he got what he wanted. Jamuga Khan "Herr Oberst, ich erwarte, daß Sie mit Ihrer Brigade binnen drei Tagen den feindlichen Stuetzpunkt erobert haben werden. Der Feind ist Ihnen zwar um mindestens das zehnfache ueberlegen, aber ich werde von Ihnen keinerlei Ausreden oder Entschuldigungen akzeptieren. Sollten Sie versagen, beten Sie zu Gott, dass Sie es nicht ueberleben, sonst werde ich Sie vor ein Kriegsgericht stellen lassen, und wenn es das letzte ist, was ich in meinem Leben tue." Typical order of a heldannic general to one of his colonels *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:32:50 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) << But isn't it true that the endin "burg" is often used in the end of names of towns/cities such as in Hamburg? This would mean that Ritterburg is a city built near a knights Castle. >> Ups! I don't know if there were a castle where Hamburg was built. It might be another linguistic root. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:30:57 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - More German words << 1) Dear one, your meal is ready. 2) Mother, I have returned. 3) Yes sir, it will be as you say. 4) There is no land I love more than ancient Traladara. >> 1) Meine Liebe, Dein Essen ist fertig. or Mein Lieber, mein Liebes. 2) Mutter, ich bin zurueck. 3) Jawoll, wird sofort erledigt. 4) Es gibt kein Land, das ich mehr liebe als... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:30:56 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - German names << --Jaggar Drachenfels >> So modest today, Highness? I always thought your name were "Jaggar von Drachenfels". BTW, "Drachenfels" means "Dragonmount". Jamuga Khan "Sooner or later we will catch you." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:30:58 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - German names << In Germany, yes, but consider in the USA, where it is not unheard-of for a surname to be adopted as a given name. The names "Clark" and "Douglas" are examples of this. We also don't have an invasionary state dictating what we can name our children, so the idea of naming a kid anything at all is not inconceivable. (There was one poor girl named LaTrine, believe it or not...) >> Die spinnen, die Amerikaner. Obelix, Hinkelsteinlieferant *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:32:48 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - German names << How about Morgaithe (Jaggar's father)? >> No, at least no modern name. In the case of ancient names I'm not sure. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:31:01 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - German names << What about Green Bay? I know the German word for green is and could probably find one for bay. But what about a term to describe the name GreenBay. Some term to make the base/colony more Heldannic and not necessarily a direct translation. >> As you might have thought, the direct translation were "Gruenbucht". I have to admit that this doesn't sound good. But what's about "Gruenhaven" or "Gruenhafen" (Green Haven)? As a name for the fortress I had already suggested "Vanya's Rest", in German "Vanyas Ruh". The Heldannic outpost in the HW were "Steinhaven" and the new port in Norwold "Neuhaven". Very much "Havens", but it doesn't matter. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:32:49 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) << I don't know the origin of the words, so I can't explain why it is so, but I'll try look it up, but nobody thinks of a troldmand being in anyway related to a troll. >> Scandinavian trolls are completely different from D&D trolls. They're little earth spirits. Jamuga Khan "Er, I have to talk with a shaman about this theme." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:18:37 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Linguistics Hi! >Oh yeah, Russian isn't at all easy to write in Latin letters... Ya snaiyu. Ya utshal ruski yisik b shkule. Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:43:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #68 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 91f9868d3b5bfea69b7dfe8282eb8790 And it´s been now neraly ten years (since I´vew been learning russian in school), so I don´t really know anything anymore. I even had problems with the endigs in the above sentence, and I´m sure they are wrong. >It´s quite dificult to try to write the pronounciation also, but I´ll try! Try something like this: Give us some common letter/letter combinations and their pronunciations. Okay, I´ll try. >All words are pronounced as written, according to phonetical rules. Thus 'a' is pronounced as u in cut, 'i' as ee in keep, 'u' as oo in book, 'e' as in bet, and o as in pot. Capital letters indicate stressed syllables. I´ll use this as a guide! and add: h.. is like in Hail r..is like an r, but open your mouth a littel bit, let your tongue relax. And when you speak this letter, something in the back of your mouth should vibrate. (Help! Can anybody describe the German r better?) z..ts ie.. is just a long i (ee) >For instance, how does one pronounce the "ch" when it comes at the beginning of a word and does this differ when it is in the middle? It´s like in (the composer) Bach! >1) Dear one, your meal is ready. (in Austria:) Schatzi, dein Essen ist fertig! >2) Mother, I have returned. Mutter, ich bin wieder da! >3) Yes sir, it will be as you say. Jawohl, Herr, es wird so wie es gesagt haben gemacht werden. (it will be done as you said) Jawohl, Herr, es wird so sein wie sie es gesagt haben. 4) There is no land I love more than ancient Traladara. Es gibt kein Land das ich mehr als das alte Traladara liebe. >What about Green Bay? literally: Grünbucht ************************************************************ Peter Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 98 12:53:00 PST From: MichaelX Harvey Subject: [MYSTARA] - D&D Questions I have some questions about D&D (not AD&D), since this seems to be the best place to discuss it. I finally obtained a copy of the Rules Cyclopedia and am thinking of running a campaign. Long ago I ran using the D&D Basic and Expert sets, but the RC has a lot of new stuff (to me) as well as some of the same old issues. Ability Scores: do most folks make "fair" rolls as described in the rules (including 1-for-2 adjustments) or do you use a "cheater" method from AD&D? I'm just curious; I like ordinary characters, but a lot of them are *so* ordinary (or even pathetic) it is hard to choose a class. Sometimes I think that the high mortality rate among 1st level characters is designed to weed out those with low scores so you can try again for a better character... Classes: anyone using the optional demi-human classes written up by Bryan Maloney? Levels: one cool thing about D&D is you can advance to 36th level and have truly heroic adventures, and there are some amazingly tough monsters too. Do most campaigns start at first level and progress up to 20+? Or do most campaigns stay low powered, or start with high-level characters? Obviously I can run my campaign any way I want to, but it never hurts to learn from other's successes and mistakes. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:40:18 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spanish and Hebrew words "Merkava" is "chariot" in Hebrew--also the name of a very nice tank and the name of a sect of pre-kabbala Jewish mystics. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:39:39 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortal Mortal Identities (was: Avatars) On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >Well, what about Charlegmagne's paladins? Do you mean the AD&D interpretation of paladins comes from that novel rather than history? Any and all of Charlemagne's personal band of warriors was a "paladin", regardless of how virtuous they were. Anderson may have gotten the word from history, but Gygax got the character class (especially the original version) from the novel. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:24:00 -0800 (PST) From: keir cliff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes >Why not Alfheim to An Alfheim/Shadowelves coalition, Aengmor City to the SE renegades and the caverns to the third group of SEs ? This is exactly what I am trying to set up IMC. The Coalition ( cool word, far better than the clumsy ' Alliance ' which I was using ) would be a country that was perminantly on tender hooks, allowing for some great adventures. As most Shadow Elves just want to live like their Alfheim brethren, then the two groups would begin to learn from each other and grow as a people, eventualy easing tension, but that's some time in the future. By leaving Aengnmor to the Shadow Elf renegades, we can keep alive the Shadow Elf culture ( just as Wendar would keep many of the older Alfheim customs, which is why I never involved them directly in the war, I explained their absence through the fact that they had to march through several nations to get to the broken lands, who were unhappy about this, and were slowing their progress ) by placing them in Aengmor, and there interactions with there neighbours would make for good adventuring. As for the third group of Shadow Elves, who knows what diabolical deeds they will dream of in their dark home. BTW, about my comment concerning Shadow Elf and Dwavern relationships, IMO Shadow Elves and Dwarves occasional trade in much the same way RW East and West traded during the cold war, for economic gain. The animosity still existed, and with the SE/Dwarf war over Aengmor this has become heightened.IIRC the net almanac mentioned the Dwarfs panic over the raising of the sacred city. Just one last note, Dwaves are not greedy, they just place a higher value on objects such as Gold or Gems. The very explanation usually given for there greed, that they enjoy crafting these objects is a contradiction in terms. Dwarfs do not seek ' Treasure ' to make them wealthy but instead they seek them in the same way a carpenter would seek wood. However, I agree that the stereotype of Dwarfs spending there entire lives making jewelry is something we need to move away from. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 22:45:49 +0100 From: Peter Balazs Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Hi! >It had nothing to do with "pride", and there was no such thing as Austria at that time. Richard had gotten into an argument while on the Crusade with a Prince within the Germanic (mis-named "Holy Roman") Empire. He was in disguise because he was taking a shortcut through that prince's lands. He was recognized anyway and imprisoned for ransom. There was no law requiring any noble or monarch to wear jewelry. I have to coreect my english! I used one word completly wrong. With "he refused to don his jewelry" I really meant "he didn´t disguise the jewelry and didn´t throw it away"! The german nation, he traveled through, was Austria. Hmm, so I really have to look it up, do I? Friedrich I. Barbarossa, Phillip II. and Richard Lionheart all went on the 3rd crusade (1189-92) Friedrich I. Barbarossa was Kaiser of the Holy Roman Empire of German Nations. We was quite old to go on a crusade. (66 yrs.) But he planed this crusade quite well. (In contrast to the crusades before!) Till may, 1189, he gathered 20´000 Knights in regenburg. This number was increased by knighhts from christian nations on its way. In Matrch 1190 this army could win against an even bigger one at Iconium. About three weeks later, he drowned in a little river. With his death many knights lost their hope (at the battle of Antiocheia) and Sultan Salldain rejoiced. In the spring of 1191 King Richard I of England and King Phillip II of France finally came to the coast, they traveled by sea. the two kings didn´t really liked each other, and quarreld a lot. Nevertheless they won many many battles, for example they reconquered Akkon. But soon King Phillip II got fed up with Richard and returned to France (also to conquer Richard´s land there!) He also had difficulties with Duke Leopold V. of Austria (!!!), which also leaded to the departing of the Austrain armies. He then had to seek a diplomatic solution with Salladin (who duied five months after the departure of Richard.) Richard wanted to go back to Engalnd, but was imprisoned by Duke Leopold V of Austria, for over one year. he then had to swear an oath of liege to kaiser Heinrich VI, before was allowed to go back to England in 1194. [Bertelsmann, "Panorama der Weltgeschichte"] The first known written mentioning of Austria is from 997 (or was itt 996?). We just celebrated a milenium! ************************************************************ Peter Balazs Wurlitzerg. 37/12 1160 Wien 9003307@unet.univie.ac.at http://radon.mat.univie.ac.at/~pbalazs ************************************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:37:38 -0500 From: Daly Subject: [none] I need some opinions, I know how I can get a brand new, shrink-wrapped X11 "Saga of the Shadowlord" for 48$. Is it worth it? Thanks *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:38:41 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors At 04:23 PM 2/6/98 -0700, you wrote: >On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: >>To build upon their first achievement, the Carnifex then created the Ssithek (sp? - see Creature Catalogue), a beast not only capable of fighting, but capable of surviving in drier climates - a feat which the Carnifex were not capable of doing for prolonged periods. These creatures were more willful, and were not so easily cowed. In the wars against the Lhomarrians, many Ssithek escaped their masters while on Davania and fled southwards, towards the drying lands that would become the Ayptian and Izondian Deserts. There they have remained to this day, living in their isolated cities hidden between great crags of rock in cliff faces. Okay, but how did they get to Blackmoor? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:41:05 EST From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D Questions In a message dated 98-02-11 17:07:32 EST, you write: << Ability Scores: do most folks make "fair" rolls as described in the rules (including 1-for-2 adjustments) or do you use a "cheater" method from AD&D? I employ the "4d6 drop the lowest die" cheating method....I think that the PC's are like heroes and therefore should have a little attribute boost that seperates them from the norm. << Classes: anyone using the optional demi-human classes written up by Bryan Maloney?>> yup. definately...but as long as the PC fully understands how to play the class. You can't be an Elf and roleplay it like any other charecter except that now you have infravision. I like beginers to be humans at first, since that is by far the easiest race to play, considering that we are all humans here....i hope. also, it allows new pcs to see how NPC or other PC demihumans are played. <> Most of my campaigns start at 1st level and progress slowly. My slowest level- progressing campaign started about 5 years ago, and the highest level PC is now 9th. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:43:24 -0800 From: David Keyser Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Slavery! >Also I miss the presence of Sefs. Gaz1 (Karameikos) seems to imply that Karameikos is quite unusual for not having serfs. However I'm having trouble finding nations that do. Thyatis would have litle need to due to the presence of slaves and in Darokin, there is this great middle class. (How do they manage that?) >My only candidates for feudal countries having serfs are Heldann and Norwold. Convicts in Karameikos are not true slaves, but they can be used as a workforce for the benefit of the state. Darokin has indentured servants, it one cannot pay their debts to an individual or the state(fines, taxes, etc), than they are forced into indentured servitude, for a period up to 10 years, until the debt is paid. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #68 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, February 11 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 069 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Linguistics Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Sentient Races on Mystara [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) [MYSTARA] - Italian words Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D Questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes Re: [MYSTARA] - Hin Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Sulescu and Morphail? Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D Questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Re: [MYSTARA] - Hin Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Linguistics Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D Questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Re: [MYSTARA] - Spanish and Hebrew words [MYSTARA] - About X1 Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words [MYSTARA] - Re: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:46:04 EST From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Linguistics << Jawohl, Herr, es wird so wie es gesagt haben gemacht werden. >> An example for Austrian? It seems so, that Germany and Austria are two lands separated by their language. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:07:50 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes At 13.22 11/02/98 +0100, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: OOn Tue, 10 Feb 1998 JamugaKhan@aol.com wrote: >><< I agree. This will help developing Mystara into a more unique setting aaaswell. Im all pro Alfheim back to the surface elves and Oenkmar to the Shadowelves. >> >>Why not Alfheim to An Alfheim/Shadowelves coalition, Aengmor City to the SE renegades and the caverns to the third group of SEs ? >The Alfheim elves were never that hostile to the Shadow Elves. They even at one time invited them to live in the Alfheim forest. Well, you're obviously going by Gaz5. History given in Gaz13 (Shadow Elves point of view) is somehow different. Shadow Elves asked Alfheim Elves a place to live in the Canolbarth forest. At first AE were happy to welcome SE in Alfheim, but then they realized that the Shadow Elf population was equal to those of Alfheim elves and King Celedryl chased away all SE. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:57:49 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sentient Races on Mystara [LONG] I am not going to knock your efforts too much as you have obviously spent a great deal of time on this project. But I do have a few comments/questions... >Aranea: The origin of the spider-people is hotly contested, with M5 saying that they came to Mystara through a gate under the Isle of Dawn and the RS books saying they evolved in caverns under the SC. They are also found in Yavdlom and on the Thanegioth Islands, and once built temples in the Sea of Dread region (XSOLO). My own humble theory is that the Aranea's complex origins are indicative of time and planar travel, and that they have probably been far more important in Mystara's history than most scholars realize, perhaps even as far back as Carnifex times (spiders are after all a very old life form). I think you are right. They can be from another plane or time or whatever. The truth will probably always elude humans... >Bargda: This is another new and seemingly unnecessary monster. However, as true Minotaurs are debatably not found on (external) Mystara, this could be the "M-equivalent"; IMC they dwell mostly underground but can also be found in tropical, mountainous terrain including Izonda, the Tangor peninsula, and parts of Minaea. Wah? No true minotaurs on external Mystara?? What do you mean by "true"? Minotaurs are in every basic rulebook and the RC. They appear in numerous manuals...I don't understand. Besides, I like the bargda. >Brain Collector (Neh-Thalggu): These alien critters seem to have a particular interest in Mystara, as I know of nowhere else in the Prime Material Plane where they are found. AFAIK, though, there are only two sightings that can actually be confirmed: The Brain collector met by adventurers investigating Chateau d'Ambreville after the first disappearance of Prince Etienne (x2), and one encountered by Haldemar of Haaken along the savage coast (Dragon Magazine #?, anybody know?). Due to its association with the Cthulhu mythos (through CAS and Averoigne), it is likely that this monster is from the dimension of the Old Ones, the vortex from whence spectral hounds and blackballs come. Either that, or it is from the Dimension of Nightmares (if these two places are not connected or even the same). Canon material has them coming from the Dimension of Nightmares. This is another of my favorite creatures... >Crone of Chaos: This monster from B8? has never been used anywhere else that I know of; apparently they are associated with dark forces more powerful than themselves. IMC they are extremely rare but are used as agents/messengers by entropic immortals, such as those who destroyed Tuma. More commonly, they are just predatory parasites who live around the fringes of many human communities. If by "used" (and who in his right mind would want to use a crone??) you mean placed in a module then I believe you are correct. However they did reappear in the Creature Catalog. >Faenare: I know of no evidence that these winged demi-humans live anywhere other than Flying Serraine. Whether they are the same thing as Aarakocra (qv) or just similar and related is open to debate. Here is one for you! Anyone remember the Faedorne?? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:03:05 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) >The first known written mentioning of Austria is from 997 (or was itt 996?). We just celebrated a milenium! Congratulations! I am very happy for you. Our 200th year was a blast! Daly, citizen of America. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:10:58 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Italian words At 10.37 11/02/98 +0100, you wrote: Someone needs Italian monsters? After WotI Caurenze and its Monsters Fair are no more, but maybe.. dwarf nano elf elfo mage mago witch strega runes wizard criptomante priest prete cleric chierico dragon drago fighter guerriero thief ladro monk monaco gnome gnomo kobold coboldo orc orchetto ogre orco bat pipistrello giant gigante skeleton scheletro snake serpente rat topo wolf lupo boar cinghiale Anyway most of the monsters names don't have an italian equivalent, especially undeads. Weapon Arma Shield Scudo Armor Armatura Sword Spada Helmet Elmetto Bow Arco Crossbow Balestra Dagger Pugnale Rope Corda Coin Moneta About names: Castelbianco means White Castle Innocenti is the plural for "not guilty"! Malapietra means Badstone Marco, can you add something? - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:08:08 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D Questions >yup. definately...but as long as the PC fully understands how to play the class. You can't be an Elf and roleplay it like any other charecter except that now you have infravision. I like beginers to be humans at first, since that is by far the easiest race to play, considering that we are all humans here....i hope. also, it allows new pcs to see how NPC or other PC demihumans are played. I agree with you completely on this. I would also add that it allows a DM to demonstrate (through npcs) the proper characterization of demi-humans. They should appear exotic and it should be an exciting opportunity when the player gets to play one the next time around. ><> >Most of my campaigns start at 1st level and progress slowly. My slowest level- progressing campaign started about 5 years ago, and the highest level PC is now 9th. Personally I think it depends on what kind of campaign you wish to play and how old/experienced your players are. I have found that most people are dissatisfied with their characters when they start at a higher level than 1st. If I wish to run a high level campaign I generally just go with a fairly quick advancement rate. However, if your players are inexperienced I would definitely take it slow. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:10:14 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stereotypes >>The Alfheim elves were never that hostile to the Shadow Elves. They even at one time invited them to live in the Alfheim forest. >Well, you're obviously going by Gaz5. >History given in Gaz13 (Shadow Elves point of view) is somehow different. Shadow Elves asked Alfheim Elves a place to live in the Canolbarth forest. At first AE were happy to welcome SE in Alfheim, but then they realized that the Shadow Elf population was equal to those of Alfheim elves and King Celedryl chased away all SE. Actually I believe Gaz5 and Gaz13 both agree on this. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:22:53 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hin Immortals On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Andrew Morrow wrote: >Has anyone given any thought to the Halfling Immortals? Gaz 8 names three: Nob Nar, Brendorhin, and Coberham Shadowglint. Nob Nar is apparently considered their primary patron. Since Halfling Masters often pursue Immortality in the Sphere of Thought and because of the description of Nob Nar given in Gaz 8 sounds like an Epic Hero, I would assume that that is his sphere. I would say that Coberham Shadowglint is another name for the Halfling Immortal, Usamigaras (whose character I base upon the pregenerated character Raven from the third Immortal adventure). Can't recall exactly where I put them, but I did include them in a recent "Master List of Immortals" that I created. Nob Nar was an Epic Hero (I know that much), as was, I think Coberham Shadowglint. I believe I made Brindorhin a Paragon, as I postulated that (simply by virtue of the name) that he was the primary founder of the Five Shires. The Usamigaras/Coberham connection is an interesting one, and one I hadn't considered. Isn't Usamigaras a Paragon though? Also- did you notice that Nob Nar is mentioned as one of the High Heroes from the time of heroes (in the BC era), yet in the song of Nob Nar, he is revealed to have lived only a few hundred years ago? Can you say oversight? - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:29:01 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sulescu and Morphail? On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Glen Sprigg wrote: >The boxed set doesn't say, but GAZ1 says, "Sulescu is the being for whom the village was named, 300 years ago." It doesn't say that's how old he is or how long he's been a vampire, but he's been around at least that time, which places him around 700 AC. So he could very well be involved with Morphail's origins. Or vice versa... - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:35:15 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D Questions On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, MichaelX Harvey wrote: >Ability Scores: do most folks make "fair" rolls as described in the rules (including 1-for-2 adjustments) or do you use a "cheater" method from AD&D? For D&D, its the traditional 3d6, six times in order, 1 per 2 trades allowed. Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 21:09:45 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #69 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: a16eecd8e234aad402017d1acbcafd40 >I'm just curious; I like ordinary characters, but a lot of them are *so* ordinary (or even pathetic) it is hard to choose a class. Sometimes I think If at least one score is higher than 9, it doesn't matter. >Classes: anyone using the optional demi-human classes written up by Bryan Maloney? I am, but I also have a setting pre-balanced against domination by magic-users. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:37:08 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: I need help on X1 ( Matthew's Answer ) The word you wanted was "doff", in that case, not "don". "Don", as a verb, means "to wear" or "to put on". "Doff" means "to remove", as in removing clothing or jewelry. "Doff" is also somewhat archaic. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:42:43 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words One reason that most of the undead don't have equivalents in Italian is that it was D&D that first invented specific differentiation among most of them. The following used to be simply considered synonyms for "ghost": ghast spectre shade shadow haunt wraith It should be noted that all of the above words except for "spectre" are of Germanic linguistic origin, as are "wight", and "lich"--the Germanics were some pretty creepy guys around a campfire... The "wight" came straight out of Tolkein. The ghoul is a write-up of the Arabic ghul, which is more of a type of vampire. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:48:44 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words >Innocenti is the plural for "not guilty"! hah! How appropriate! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:24:50 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hin Immortals On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= wrote: >Nob Nar >This is probably the first of the Hin to reach immortality. He probably did so long before the Hin came to the Five Shires. Not possible. He was alive during the days before Stephan Karameikos came to Traladara- the section in the Player's book on the Song of Nob Nar mentions that he lived a few hundred years ago. >Brendorhin >(alias Tyche, Diualanna or Matter immortal such as Terra or Djaea) >An immortal from the Sphere of Matter sounds like the best idea so far. I have speculated that the origin of the Hin is associated with Elves. After all the Hin appear as the elves reach the Addakian Sound in Ilsundals Great Migration. The Hin could be an offshoot of the Elven Race. In any case Nob Nar could be one of the Immortals worshipped at that time by the Elves. Ordana could be a candidate. She created the elves but they abandoned her later on. Maybe the last followers of Ordana remained with the Hin and this created the identity of Brendorhin, who was later sought out by the young hero Hob Nar. I prefer to think of Brindorhin as the first of the Halfling Immortals, one who was inspired to lead them to the lands of the Five Shires, and was instrumental in founding that place. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 00:51:04 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Linguistics At 20.18 11/02/98 +0100, Peter Balazs wrote: >Ya snaiyu. Ya utshal ruski yisik b shkule. >And it´s been now neraly ten years (since I´vew been learning russian in school), so I don´t really know anything anymore. I even had problems with the endigs in the above sentence, and I´m sure they are wrong. I understood that anyway, though I'm not russian and I don't know the english (and german) translitteration of cyrillic alphabet. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 00:53:29 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D Questions At 12.53 11/02/98 PST, MichaelX Harvey wrote: >Ability Scores: do most folks make "fair" rolls as described in the rules (including 1-for-2 adjustments) or do you use a "cheater" method from AD&D? I'm just curious; I like ordinary characters, but a lot of them are *so* ordinary (or even pathetic) it is hard to choose a class. Sometimes I think that the high mortality rate among 1st level characters is designed to weed out those with low scores so you can try again for a better character... I usually choose the class first, then I roll dice using the "best 3 out of 4" method and last I chose to which ability I'll apply that score. >Levels: one cool thing about D&D is you can advance to 36th level and have truly heroic adventures, and there are some amazingly tough monsters too. Do most campaigns start at first level and progress up to 20+? Or do most campaigns stay low powered, or start with high-level characters? I've always started my campaign from 1st level. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:57:15 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words >The "wight" came straight out of Tolkein. The ghoul is a write-up of the Arabic ghul, which is more of a type of vampire. Figured I might add that both "wight" and "orc" are medieval terms for "man". Interesting huh? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 11 Feb 1998 21:15:18 -0300 From: 3@giga.com.ar Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Spanish and Hebrew words >This is wonderful. Now, how would you say "ballista" in Spanish? It's more easy that you think: Balista ballista Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 11 Feb 1998 21:29:36 -0300 From: 3@giga.com.ar Subject: [MYSTARA] - About X1 It will be hard to tell you what is the problem. I don't know very well engish, and my X1 is in Hebrew so I will try to do my best. In the central plain, in the wandering monsters table (I think it's table 4), in the result 4 there are a group of monsters. I don't how to translate it to english but i'll try: Petranodones. I don't know them, and they don't apears in the part of the New Monsters. Can anybody (if he understand me) send me the caracteristic of the monsters? Thanks Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:51:12 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Levy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors who said they were in blackmoor? m@2 "You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" - said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >At 04:23 PM 2/6/98 -0700, you wrote: >>On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: >>>To build upon their first achievement, the Carnifex then created the Ssithek (sp? - see Creature Catalogue), a beast not only capable of fighting, but capable of surviving in drier climates - a feat which the Carnifex were not capable of doing for prolonged periods. These creatures were more willful, and were not so easily cowed. In the wars against the Lhomarrians, many Ssithek escaped their masters while on Davania and fled southwards, towards the drying lands that would become the Ayptian and Izondian Deserts. There they have remained to this day, living in their isolated cities hidden between great crags of rock in cliff faces. >Okay, but how did they get to Blackmoor? >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:38:01 -0500 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Carnifex Servitors DA3...:) At 04:51 PM 2/11/98 -0800, you wrote: >who said they were in blackmoor? >m@2 >"You're not really in love with yourself - you're just in love with the idea of being in love with yourself" >- said to me by one of the two little fellas who hang out on either of my shoulders ... I can't remember which ... >On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Daly wrote: >>At 04:23 PM 2/6/98 -0700, you wrote: >>>On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: >>>>To build upon their first achievement, the Carnifex then created the Ssithek (sp? - see Creature Catalogue), a beast not only capable of fighting, but capable of surviving in drier climates - a feat which the Carnifex were not capable of doing for prolonged periods. These creatures were more willful, and were not so easily cowed. In the wars against the Lhomarrians, many Ssithek escaped their masters while on Davania and fled southwards, towards the drying lands that would become the Ayptian and Izondian Deserts. There they have remained to this day, living in their isolated cities hidden between great crags of rock in cliff faces. >>Okay, but how did they get to Blackmoor? >>*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 01:31:27 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words At 18.57 11/02/98 -0500, Daly wrote: >>The "wight" came straight out of Tolkein. The ghoul is a write-up of the Arabic ghul, which is more of a type of vampire. >Figured I might add that both "wight" and "orc" are medieval terms for "man". Interesting huh? There should have been pretty ugly men in the Middle Age :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 01:30:33 +0100 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Italian words At 18.42 11/02/98 -0500, you wrote: >One reason that most of the undead don't have equivalents in Italian is that it was D&D that first invented specific differentiation among most of them. The following used to be simply considered synonyms for "ghost": >ghast >spectre >shade >shadow >haunt >wraith In Italian we have several synonyms too: fantasma, spettro, ectoplasma, spirito. They all mean "ghost". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:51:28 -0600 From: "Galwylin" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Depends how bad you want it but my advice is to shop around some more. That strikes me as being totally overpriced. - ------------------------------------------------------------ This has been a Galwylin=A9 Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ - -----Original Message----- From: Daly To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: Wednesday, February 11, 1998 4:45 PM >I need some opinions, >I know how I can get a brand new, shrink-wrapped X11 "Saga of the Shadowlord" for 48$. Is it worth it? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #69 ******************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.