mystara-digest Monday, May 18 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 330 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Re: mystara-digest V1997 #320 [MYSTARA] - Problems of human lifespan in RPGs :-) [MYSTARA] - Getting into aimless chit-chat [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals [MYSTARA] - The Developed Nation of Karameikos [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Night Dragons Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac 34/48 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 19:01:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: mystara-digest V1997 #320 On Sun, 17 May 1998, it was written: >mystara-digest Sunday, May 17 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 320 NOT COOL, DUDE! By posting all these volumes of stuff all on the same day, you blew out both my mail and disk quota on my Internet account here. Can't you dispense this stuff more slowly over several days? >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. I'm tempted to... - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 19:15:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Problems of human lifespan in RPGs :-) On Sun, 17 May 1998, it was written: >Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:47:56 +0100 >From: "Rob" >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Problems of "deities" in RPG >>In player terms, the Immortals boxed set just feeds more level-mania, even more extreme than AD&D: 36 character levels and after that, 31 Immortal levels. If you voluntarily reincarnate yourself into a 1st-level character (with no memory of your past), and go through the whole thing again, and then toss yourself into a Vortex (a larger cousin of the Blackball) to join the Old Ones, you have "won" D&D! Even assuming the character never dies, that's an amount of play beyond the lifetime of even unemployed persons who've had their brains encased in a plastic life-support system to live another hundred years! RPGs as recreation have mentally exceeded the frail limits of human flesh... >>To explore the different D&D boxes I had to "jump-start" characters to an appropriate level. >:) I liked the way you could "win" at D+D - its the only roleplaying game with an ending. My first ever (successful) D+D character is now, oh, 11 years old now? And is a Celestial 3 Immortal (whats that, about 18?). >Only another 18 levels to go before full hierarch... And then all I have to do is do it all over again! No problem. It would be amusing if xD&D somehow spurs in the population an interest in prolonging lifespans so a "complete" RPG game is possible... "Yeah, I got a touch of the AIDS, so me and my players are going to suicide and have our heads frozen until there is a cure for such things, so we can continue our game when they revive us. The trust fund ONLY cost a couple of hundred thousand dollars each, and I stored all my supplements and boxes REALLY long-term, so we have a good chance of going on..." :-) So it's true! D&D really DOES encourage suicide! :-) (And then they are revived 500 years later in some sort of SLIDERS world where RPGs or speaking English are illegal...or maybe they CAN speak English but of a sort only for their time, making them unable to explain to the future just what they are doing when they sit in a circle and roll polyhedra. "What are they doing, Xagyg?" "I don't know, Nosenra, but it looks like a prayer-meeting with the high priest behind a rotting cardboard altar, and some sort of belief in divination involving casting bits of rotting plastic.") The proper ribbon to wear expressing your hope for such developments is a Polyhedral Ribbon...or a Moebius Strip... :-) - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 19:28:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Getting into aimless chit-chat On Sun, 17 May 1998, it was written: >Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:22:56 -0400 >From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Problems of "deities" in RPG >Pierre Savoie wrote: >>xD&D deliberately made a milder claim about deities in a setting, compared to AD&D. They are not "deities" but "immortals", something like the concept of "ascended masters" or higher beings of Buddhism. >Deities, Immortals, Gods, really only variations on the word. It's a shallow defense against the hordes of Mothers Against Dungeons & Dragons to say, "We call them Immortals, its a milder word." 3;)> It was "Bothered About Dungeons & Dragons". But Patricia Pulling died of cancer, so the cultural holocaust against D&D-players has lost its Mengele, so to speak. Details: http://people.unt.edu/~jl0007/draco.htm >The legendary Waldorf was an AD&D 1st edition character with 345 levels. At least the D&D game rules put a cap on things. 3:)> But Waldorf lost in the equally legendary AD&D/OGRE grudge-match...vs. a tank the size of a city block. Maybe it was the unexpected novelty of gunpowder... :-) As for that Dalai Lama stuff, the world would be a much more fun place if the successor was not found just among expatriate Tibetans but their search carried them to identify the next Dalai Lama in New York, in the son of a crack-whore...but seriously, the suppression and genocide of Tibetans is no joke (www.tibet.com) and it will cause problems in searching for their "spiritual leader" in the Chinese annexation. >Though it may damage my reputation for modesty on this list.. 3:D> I made it from 1st level D&D Dwarf to Immortal Initiate in six years. Of course, having made it that far, there really wasn't much point to con- tinuing. I know one other player to make it that far from our party of four... chalk one up to losing your party to Immortality. Why NOT go on? Worlds within worlds within worlds... >So, extrapolating from that, I'd say it'd take 24 years for one to generate an Old One (legitimately). Which is still a long time ... Old Ones are nothing but the pimply teen-aged kids whose D&D imaginings become reality somewhere else. A million years is to them a year, and an epic 20-year-war is to them the time until they hear "Billy! Time for supper!" :-) - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 19:23:08 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals I've read over the posts that the Church of Karameikos wasn't presented as a place of Immortal worship but one of philosophy. This is one thing I dislike about the Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure set (the philosopher cleric kit). I don't believe that curing spells can be available to clerics that don't worship an Immortal. The Church of Karameikos simply should have an Immortal pantheon just as the Church of Thyatis should. Worshipping law or chaos just doesn't sit well with me. I've seen some lists of the possible Immortals the Church uses which I assume were transported from Thyatis. Since the formation of the Karameikan people though, I'm certain Halav, Petra and Zirchev would have been incorporated into the Church, possibly becoming the head Immortals of the Church. This wouldn't mean that relations between the Church of Karameikos and the Church of Traladara won't still have conflicts because their approach to the way they worship differ. I would also guess that the Church of Karameikos see the Cult of Halav as much more dangerous than the Church of Traladara which would probably see it as mis-guided. I guess what I'm mainly wondering about, is how many of the Thyatians (now Karameikans) have embraced some of the Traladaran beliefs? - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 19:29:58 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Developed Nation of Karameikos Well, I can understand that looking at the map of Karameikos, one would think that the land is pretty empty of human settlements. What mainly gives me the idea that it is undeveloped is that every entry I've read on Karameikos mention that most of the country is woodland and not fully explored by men. The elves, goblins and various other creatures that inhabit these lands have served as the explanation why Karameikans (do the elves of Karameikos consider themselves a part of the country?) haven't penetrated very far into them. I saw the arrival of the Alfheim refugees as even a stronger force to make sure the forests of Karameikos remain. What will be interesting to see what effect the Alfheim refugees will have on the future of Karameikos. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 19:41:36 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara I only had one response to my question of what makes Mystara so special and different from other settings. From it, I gather the idea of Mystara's (specifically the Known World) appeal is the fact that you have so many different 'worlds' available. The Ylaruam desert, the Empire of Thyatis, the unexplored Karameikos, the mysterious Glantri, etc. are seen as a strength for their differences though, I admit, I see it as a problem. One problem for me are the borders. With regions and cultures so different and not having influence on each other, I continue to see the picture of crossing from Ylaruam to the Northern Reaches to be actually like crossing a line on the ground. Surely, along these borders there is a meshing of culture that is softens the severe differnces between countries. What lies between Ylaruam and the Norther Reaches is probably one of the most problematic since one's a desert culture and the other an ice culture. I don't think removing either is a proper solution but perhaps some kind of comprimise needs to be reached on just exactly how these different cultures interact with each other and what kind of people live along these borders. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:47:51 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Galwylin wrote: >I don't believe that curing spells can be >available to clerics that don't worship an Immortal. I think too many clerics get curing spells. It's almost a rite of passage.. how many Immortals are really interested in Healing? I give you Healing Immortals.. and maybe Immortals of War and Peace, Medicine, Health.. perhaps even Life and Death. But not many.. Asterius the Thief/Fence/Smuggler/Dilletente Mage has been called a "Messenger," ala Hermes.. I see a caduceus, I see a benevolent DM giving access to the sphere of Healing to Asterius followers. Even though it has little to do with Asterius' own history as a thief/fence/smuggler/dabbling mage. Most Immortals shouldn't be able to grant curing spells. However, firm belief in one's alignment, which was the entire basis for the D&D Cleric before the innovations of Immortals.. used to be enough for curing spells (and the rest). Now that we have Immortals, can we just discard that faithful old cleric? >I guess what I'm mainly wondering about, is how >many of the Thyatians (now Karameikans) have embraced some of the Traladaran beliefs? In 1000 AC (the time of GAZ1 and DotE) we see that the Thyatians (in Thyatis, no less) have adopted some Traladaran customs like Shearing, which was imported and renamed "Running Away" from home in Thyatis. This practice is to no small end a most handy tool for DM's every- where. I know I just can't stand PCs who still live with their parents! As for Karameikans adopting Traladaran beliefs, I think that will be a slow process going forward, but even back in 1000 AC there was a measurable move toward that fusion of beliefs. It does look rather depressing for the survival of the Church of Karameikos though, I cannot see it adopting Halav, Petra and Zirchev.. absolutely not in the light the Traladarans do. As Immortals, those three are unlikely to deal with the "pantheon" already ascribed to the CoK. The Traladaran beliefs just don't fit well with the CoK doctrine, and I forsee a decline in CoK's parishoners. -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:56:27 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Galwylin wrote: >cultures so different and not having influence on each other, I continue to see the picture of crossing from Ylaruam to the Northern Reaches to be actually like crossing a line on the ground. Surely, along these borders there is a meshing of culture that is softens the severe differnces between countries. What lies between Ylaruam and the Norther Reaches is probably one of the most problematic since one's a desert culture and the other an ice culture. Well, I wouldn't call the Northern Reaches an "ice" culture, more a cold temperate culture. The reasons for this are the gateway to the Elemental Plane of Fire in Ylaruam, and the dryness caused by Elf Weather Magic over Alfheim, which make it unusually hot. Picture the mountains which surround Ylaruam as a clay pot that keeps the heat in the surrounding ground. However, along the seacoast from Ylaruam it is more temperate and less arid... significantly so a little further north in the Northern Reaches. I see the North getting a lot of rain, rain that can't come south due to the mountains. As for culture clash, there are unmapped villages lining the trade route between Ylaruam and the Jarldoms. As one gradually travels around, the Northlandic influences will become stronger and the Ylari influences will start to fade. This can be seen with larger cities on other borders with Ylaruam, take for instance Selenica on the Darokin border, and Biazzan on the Thyatian border. -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 00:45:29 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals In a message dated 98-05-17 23:04:55 EDT, derek@ix.netcom.com writes: >I think too many clerics get curing spells. It's almost a rite of passage.. how many Immortals are really interested in Healing? I give you Healing Immortals.. and maybe Immortals of War and Peace, Medicine, Health.. >perhaps even Life and Death. But not many.. On the other hand, all Immortals are interested in recruiting followers. A natural question will arise with clerics who cannot cast healing spells: "If you cannot heal, what good are you?" To answer this question, any Immortal who does not grant healing spells had better have something very potent up his or her sleeve. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 00:45:27 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals In a message dated 98-05-17 20:45:45 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >I don't believe that curing spells can be Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 04:00:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #330 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com >available to clerics that don't worship an Immortal. Why not? As I see it, clerics of specific Immortals would be the "traditional" way of receiving priestly magic. But in the 11th century AC the philosopher clerics devoted to alignments (Law/Neutrality/Chaos) rather than specific Immortals become more prominent. Organizations such as "Eternal Truth", the Ruthinians of the Northern Reaches, and the Churches of Darokin, Thyatis, and Karameikos could begin drawing worshipers away from specific Immortals after WotI. This presents a dilemma to the Immortals -- do they support the movements that favor their own alignments (most likely for Lawful or Neutral Immortals) or do they oppose them? The stakes are quite high -- if the Philosophy/Alignment movement becomes dominant, then the relations among the varius Immortals will change radically, as they are currently based on Sphere and other interests more than alignment. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 23:23:49 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Night Dragons >I Believe that the knight dragons are mentioned in the Champions of Mystara boxed set (based on the Princess Ark stuff) Knight dragons? Are those the ones that rescue maidens from evil princes? (Sorry, couldn't resist :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 03:59:59 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac 34/48 In a message dated 98-05-17 18:28:24 EDT, you write: << Subj: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac 34/48 Date: 98-05-17 18:28:24 EDT From: gallidox@hotmail.com (Joshuan Gallidox) Sender: owner-mystara-l@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Reply-to: mystara-l@MPGN.COM To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM YARTHMONT 1, AC 1015: Goblinoids Invade Darokin. Location: Corunglain, Darokin. OW Description: A significantly-sized horde of goblinoids jump out of the sewers of Corunglain and make a break for the city walls. Taken by surprise, the defenders are unable to destroy the goblins, and most of them make it outside the city. Soon enough, the soldiers of Corunglain watch as the goblinoids regroup in the fields just out of arrow reach. Once completed, the horde begins their southward march toward Darokin City. (See Fl. 20; Ya. 10, Ya. 12.) What This Means: The goblins have a clear shot for Darokin City. With the Great Wall completed, the leaders of Darokin were positive that no goblinoid horde would ever be able to march into the Streel Plains, so most military units of the area have been reassigned to more troubled spots (such as the borders with Sind, Atruaghin, the Orclands, and Ylaruam). Now, much to their surprise, such a horde is marching to their capital. The Darokinians are also surprised from the seemingly advanced tactics these goblinoids are using. They have yet to discover that the leaders of the horde are shadow elves and not just mere orcs or goblins. This event will put serious doubts as to whether Darokin should continue to expand the Great Wall to Fort Nell, as they begin to wonder if the wall is worth the money placed into it. What The PCs Can Do: They have several options here. First, they can rush ahead of the horde and try to save as many people as possible. There are numerous villages and towns along the Streel River, and hundreds of homesteads belonging to the farmers of Darokin. They will all be easy targets for the goblinoids unless the PCs intervene. They can also try and race to Darokin or nearby military forts and try to warn them of the coming dangers. Finally - something the rulers of Corunglain probably haven't thought of - they can take care of Corunglain's goblinoid problem. With the majority of the horde on their way to Darokin City, the stragglers that have remained behind in the sewers should be something a band of well-equipped PCs can handle. YARTHMONT 4, AC 1015: Fighting in Gunjab. Location: Mumlyket of Gunjab, Sind. OW Description: The first of a series of attacks against Hulean encampments in the mumlyket of Gunjab begins today. The Freedom Warriors and Followers of Gareth, increasingly emboldened by their success in Nagpuri and with a steady base of operations, have begun the process of taking back Sind, mumlyket by mumlyket. The Huleans try to reorganize themselves, but it will take some doing; they have grown sloppy since their conquest in 1005 AC. (See Fl. 12, Fl. 19; Kl. 5, Kl. 9.) What The PCs Can Do: Plenty of opportunity for the PCs to get involved in warfare with the oppressive Hulean forces, and attempt to restore Sind to independence. YARTHMONT 4, AC 1015: Boldavia Reinforced. Location: Boldavia, Glantri. OW Description: The war against Glantri has been going bad for the Ethengarians for a while now. The undead legions seem endless and tireless. Worse, their own fallen men appear to be joining their ranks to fight against their former friends and family. Even more surprising is the fact that despite a lack of leaders present with the undead, they seem to act as concentrated units following complex commands. Now, the battle turns for the worse as several forces from the rest of the Glantrian principalities arrive to bolster the units from Boldavia. (See Fl. 20, Fl. 23; Ya. 18, Ya. 20.) What This Means: The undead are indeed being controlled by someone; Prince Morphail Gorevitch-Woszlany himself. It has been rumored that the prince long ago discovered some means of communicating with all of his minions - it turns out these rumors are true. Still, even the Glantrians are not too sure about these undead. No one seems to know who is commanding them, and the Boldavian officers feign ignorance. They assume it's some over- enthusiastic necromancer from the Great School of Magic. Most units stay back and simply watch the Ethengarians get massacred, preferring not to get involved. YARTHMONT 5, AC 1015: Jennites Go Underground. Location: Faraway, Verdan, Esterhold Peninsula. AS Description: Governor Talin of Verdan publicly accuses his brother Kalin, the Governor of Blackrock, to be in the Alphatians' sold. He prompts the true Jennites to take up arms against the evil Alphatians and the traitors. Talin ransacks the palace (he intends to use the money to buy weapons from unscrupulous smugglers) and leads a group of Jennites to the forests of Verdan, from where he plans to launch raids on Alphatians, using hit and run tactics and possibly rallying more Jennites. (See Nu. 14; Ya. 9, Fe. 26.) YARTHMONT 6, AC 1015: Dreaden Lost At Sea. Location: Thyatis City, Thyatis. OW Description: The cargo ship Dreaden is reported lost at sea. This is the seventh thyatian ship to disappear since the start of shipping season back in Vatermont (the 25th). Sailors begin to fear that the Behemoth, reportedly slain by adventurers, has returned. (See Kl. 14, Fe. 15.) What This Means: Although the Behemoth is indeed still alive (regardless of what bragging adventurers claim), it is not responsible for the recent ship disappearances. Instead, a new threat to the Thyatians has arrived: the mermen of the Twaelar Empire. YARTHMONT 8, AC 1015: Caterpillar Sabotaged. Location: Aegos, Alatian Islands. AS Description: The dwarven team that was to use the gnomish caterpillar today finds it sabotaged. They set up to repairing it, but vital pieces of machinery were destroyed on purpose. The dwarves suspect the Thyatians of treachery and ask that the Minrothaddans set their own watchs. (See Th. 4; Fe. 23, Ei. 10.) What This Means: The Thyatians are indeed behind this sabotage. Since it has been revealed that Alphatia exists in the Hollow World, they have lost interest in it and prefer the pit to stay as it is, unusable. Governor Francesca Egidio reasoned that without their only caterpillar the dwarves would have trouble continuing their work, and so asked a group of Thyatian bullies to do the dirty work. She knew the Thyatians would be suspected, but it was well worth it. YARTHMONT 9, AC 1015: Kalin vs. Talin. Location: Skyfyr, Blackrock, Esterhold Peninsula. AS Description: Governor Kalin meets with President Favian Vern to discuss about his brother's acts a few days ago. Though they both would prefer a peaceful solution, former governor Talin, now rebel leader, gave them no choice. Favian Vern moves to Faraway to rule the province during the troubled times, and sends word to Commander Broderick in Ionace. (See Nu. 14, Ya. 5; Fe. 26, Fy. 3.) YARTHMONT 10, AC 1015: Cestia Sighted. Location: West of the Isle of Cestia. JC Description: At midday today, the Isle of Cestia is sighted. Herr Wulf, having had a dream about a great banquet on a beach the night before, demands that the ship make landfall before sunrise tomorrow. (See Fl. 4, Fl. 22; Ya. 11, Kl. 8.) What This Means: Vanya has decided to show her power once again, and has commanded her followers on the Isle of Cestia (who call her Vaati) to leave some preserved goods on the beaches before sunrise. She feels her champions have served her well so far, and has decided to reward them. YARTHMONT 10, AC 1015: Darokin Besieged. Location: Darokin City, Darokin. OW Description: The horde of goblinoids marching from Corunglain finally reach Darokin City today. The majority of the horde attack the city, while smaller bands scatter off in every direction to plunder the countryside. (See Fl. 20, Ya. 1; Ya. 12, Ya. 18.) YARTHMONT 11, AC 1015: The Flintlock Pistol. Location: Smokestone City, Cimarron. SC Description: The famed halfling jeweler Westron, along with the female dwarf Fredra Smithy, 40 years after inventing the wheellock pistol, release their improved flintlock pistols. The weapon spreads rapidly among the people of Cimmaron, but hardly makes any grounds into the other baronies at this point, who are just now getting use to the wheellock. (The flintlock's exorbitant price doesn't help the market grow either!) (See Fy. 12, Ei. 2.) What This Means: The wheellocks have been growing very popular among the Savage Baronies and even other nations of the Savage Coast. But many warriors still refused to use them because of their unreliability and the possibility of it exploding in your face. Now, with improved flintlocks, firearms will become even more common amongst the warriors of the area. Statistics of the flintlock pistol are as follows: Flintlock Belt Pistol, 500 gp, 2 lbs, S, P, speed 6, 1d8/1d8, ROF 1, Range: 2/4/6, Note: on a roll of 1, there is only a 10% chance of a backfire causing 1d6 damage to user. Flintlock Horse Pistol, 750 gp, 3 lbs, S, P, speed 7, 1d10/1d10, ROF 2/3, Range: 3/6/9, Note: on a roll of 1, there is only a 10% chance of a backfire causing 1d6 damage to user. Note that flintlocks use all the other standard Savage Coast rules of firearms as detailed in the Savage Coast online manual, notably armor piercing (goes through armor according to range; all/5/2) and the fact that Savage Coast smokepowder DOES NOT backfire even if a 1 is rolled (or the 1 then 10% for flintlocks; the 10% rule is included for those who do not use the NO BACKFIRE rule of the Savage Coast.) What The PCs Can Do: The chaotic Order of the Flame Inheritors would probably try and stop this invention, as it will encourage the use of smokepowder which is dangerous to Inheritors. The more Neutral and Lawful orders (Order of Crimson and Order of the Ruby respectively) would fight to allow the invention despite their personal dislike for it; the rest of the world has the right to do what it wants without their interference. This allows a lot of behind the scenes conflicts over one invention. YARTHMONT 11, AC 1015: A Mysterious Feast. Location: Near Amanara, Morovoay, Isle of Cestia. JC Description: Herr Wulf's party is surprised to find a small pile of nuts, fruits, and dried fish waiting for them. The items are gratefully taken to the ship, which now heads back west for the Davanian coast, and towards Vanya's Rest. (See Fl. 22, Ya. 10; Kl. 8, Kl. 9.) What This Means: Vanya's worshippers have left the food as commanded, and Herr Wulf's party has taken it so that the journey can continue without further delays. YARTHMONT 12, AC 1015: Immigration. Location: Five Shires. OW Description: Mercantile trade begins to flourish in the Five Shires as foreigners begin to slowly move in. Some hin begin to become a bit edgy at the increasing number of non-hin in the Shires. (See Va. 20, Fl. 3; Kl. 8, Kl. 22.) YARTHMONT 12, AC 1015: Arian Harvest. Location: Yannivey Islands, NACE. AS Description: Though the Arians have made real efforts to have a good harvest this year, the result is only a mild success. Crops are harvested, but definitely not enough to support the population. More crops than expected seem to have been lost to the northern cold. What This Means: Spies from the Qeodharian Special Force have been instructed to do some sabotage on Floating Ar. When possible, they have destroyed crops and make it appear as if the cold was responsible. Baron Norlan is quite worried at the presence of Floating Ar near to his kingdom. By keeping Ar dependent on Qeodharian food imports and advises on how to properly grow crops in the north, he hopes to gain a hold over the kingdom - in addition to money influx, that is. What The PCs Can Do: The PCs might expose the Qeodharian treachery, especially if they have an interest in the Yanniveys (e.g. if they possess some lands on which they want to grow crops). Since the Arians can't imagine it is a sabotage, they don't hire investigators, so the PCs must take the initiative or stumble upon saboteurs by chance. They can also be approached by Qeodharians to perform the sabotages. YARTHMONT 12, AC 1015: Goblinoids Defeated. Location: Darokin City, Darokin. OW Description: The First Army of Darokin City finally defeats the goblins attacking their city. Although they are victorious in destroying the horde, a large number of goblinoids still survive. Most have retreated into the surrounding countryside, while a few actually made it into the sewers of Darokin City. (See Ya. 1, Ya. 10; Ya. 18, Kl. 1.) What This Means: Deimos's - and hence Synn's - plan of causing chaos in Darokin has been brought to a halt. Although there are still plenty of goblinoids throughout the land to cause trouble, there are far too few to proceed along the lines Deimos had planned. All except for two of the shadow elf leaders return to Sable Tower. One remains in Darokin's sewers, while the other in Corunglain's. The two that remain do their best to lead the goblinoids that are left in the area. YARTHMONT 15, AC 1015 : Joint Polar Expedition Sets Sail. Location: Mirros, Karameikos. KW Description: The Joint Polar Expedition leaves Karameikos for the Hollow World on board of the Concordia. The skyship's departure is the occasion of rejoicing in the streets of Mirros, as King Stefan issued a day of celebration. (See Th. 15; Kl. 2, Fy. 9.) What This Means: This is a joint expedition from Karameikos and the NACE to the Hollow World and especially to Alphatia. The captain of the ship and leader of the expedition is Nikolai Delarius, the young man of mixed Thyatian and Traladaran descent who was the leader of last year's Karameikan Polar Expedition; some of his comrades have joined the new expedition team as well. Claransa the Seer, who is longing for adventure and journals to write, also joins as Counselor Exceptional. A Karameikan diplomat, who is willing to stay for a long time in the Hollow World, is sent along to act as Karameikos's ambassador to Alphatia and address any other event there on his king's behalf. Unknown to all but Baron Norlan, a Qeodharian spy has managed to pose as an Alphatian sailor; his mission is to learn all he can about the Hollow World as well as wreaking as much havoc as possible. For now, the Concordia is bound to Ionace where she will pick up a diplomat from the NACE. YARTHMONT 15, AC 1015: Looking For Allies. Location: Topolodzhik, City State of Zagora. SC Description: Stephan Karvich, the exiled regent of Nova Svoga, secretly meets with envoys of Margrave Munte III of Zagora in the village of Topolodzhik. Stephan Karvich is looking for allies in order to take back Nova Svoga from the Huleans. (See Ka. 21) What This Means: Last year Stephan Karvich found unexpected allies in the Dark Fang orcs led by Thurgg, the orc who worships Gareth, but he knows that he needs more (and better equipped) warriors to wrestle Nova Svoga back from the Master's grasp. Zagora's warriors are an obvious choice, since they're renowned for their bravery. Moreover both Karvich and Munte III know that Zagora will be the next target of Hule. >> *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #330 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:57:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #331 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Monday, May 18 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 331 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac 34/48 (sorry) Re: [MYSTARA] - Night Dragons [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals [MYSTARA] - Dragons (was Night Dragons) Re: [MYSTARA] - Getting into aimless chit-chat Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac 36/48 Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Night Dragons Re: [MYSTARA] - Getting into aimless chit-chat Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac AC 1015 Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: mystara-digest V1997 #320 [MYSTARA] - The Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta & Lupins [MYSTARA] - Not as confused about the Hollow World Re: [MYSTARA] - Revised Patera Timeline Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaraspace ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 04:20:41 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac 34/48 (sorry) >In a message dated 98-05-17 18:28:24 EDT, you write: ><< Subj: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac 34/48 >Date: 98-05-17 18:28:24 EDT >From: gallidox@hotmail.com (Joshuan Gallidox) SSender: owner-mystara-l@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM >Reply-to: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >YARTHMONT 1, AC 1015: Goblinoids Invade Darokin. LLocation: Corunglain, Darokin. OW >> [snipped] Sorry about that being sent to the List. I was copying and pasting the nonattachment posts to be compiled with the downloaded files. In doing so, I hit the wrong icon and whallah the original message was resent to the List. Hey....what do ya expect? It's 4 in the morning over here. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:13:10 +1000 From: Anakin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Night Dragons Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >>I Believe that the knight dragons are mentioned in the Champions of Mystara boxed set (based on the Princess Ark stuff) >Knight dragons? Are those the ones that rescue maidens from evil princes? >(Sorry, couldn't resist :) Indeed tis a common sight where I come from noble knight dragons riding up on their white chargers and rescuing fair damsels in distress!!!! Anakin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:31:21 +0200 From: Ezio Pignatelli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Galwylin wrote: >I've seen some lists of the possible Immortals the Church uses which I assume were transported from Thyatis. Since the formation of the Karameikan people though, I'm certain Halav, Petra and Zirchev would have been incorporated into the Church, possibly becoming the head Immortals of the Church. I would disagree. If you include "Call of the Heroes" in your canon setting, then you have to explain why the Church of karameikos is simply interested in making the Shield of Halav 'disappear' quietly. Would halav be a major immortal of CoK, I would expect them to want the shield, but also to show it proudly. Like that, it seems halav is an immortal of the Church of traladara only. It is possible that, in the future, other imoortals join the CoK though..... >I guess what I'm mainly wondering about, is how many of the Thyatians (now Karameikans) have embraced some of the Traladaran beliefs? IMC very few. What's happening is the opposite (IMC of course :)) ): traladarians are slowly being converted to the worship of the new immortals (only in the town however). On the other hand, the new Traladarian blood is slowly changing the phylosophy of the Church, moving it to be more tolerant towards other beliefs. - -- Ezio Pignatelli - Dipartimento di Astronomia - Padova Tel: +39-49-8293459 - Fax: +39-49-8759840 mailto:epignat@leda.pd.astro.it http://leda.pd.astro.it/~epignat - -- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:32:04 +0000 From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de Subject: [MYSTARA] - Dragons (was Night Dragons) Hi folks, >Indeed tis a common sight where I come from noble knight dragons riding up on their white chargers and rescuing fair damsels in distress!!!! Seems that you are into Dragonlance-Theme. This point brings me to a new discussion-topic. How do dragons in Mystara behave ?? I like Mystara because these are THREE dragon-immortals under the guidance of a single one (The Great One). - --> Think of it a father-sons-relation and the father doesn´t want to prefer one over the other!! E.g. in WotI (IMC) the Great One forbode the dragons to participate in humanoid quarrels. (Dragonlance-idea background) But the three immortals just think of their kind (good,neutral,evil) and each wants to further just his cause, his power, his motives. On the other hand: why should only the "evil" /only the "good ones" have the right to fly/use dragons. Dragons are far superior to humanoids in age/wisdom/knowledge and might. So what are the personal motives to participate in human struggle. Why take the risk of being killed and the like. Any comments? PS: I don´t count my posts on this list anymore because it seems to me that nobody is ever interested in my posts. Am I only writing brainless stuff ?? An interested Wizzard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:52:23 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Getting into aimless chit-chat I've worked out since getting Net access that all the religious persecution against roleplayers in the USA actually does (did?) go on. I find that absolutely unbelievable. No one in England who plays D+D (and ive met quite a few) over the years gets at all worried about any religious implications or anything (like the Immortal Storm, where the Immortals go to Earth (which is in an outer plane) and say that there is one Immortal there, but he hasnt got any power... And there is no slating of roleplayers by the religious either. It is, after all, just a game. Funny that the USA, with atheist founding fathers, has no official national religion, but is far more extreme, IMHO, than English relgion, which is official. Cheerz ROB (Another interesting fact ive picked up - like Cuban 'gars being illegal!) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:55:54 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals >>I think too many clerics get curing spells. It's almost a rite of pppassage.. how many Immortals are really interested in Healing? I give you >>Healing Immortals.. and maybe Immortals of War and Peace, Medicine, HHealth.. >>perhaps even Life and Death. But not many.. >On the other hand, all Immortals are interested in recruiting followers. A natural question will arise with clerics who cannot cast healing spells: "If you cannot heal, what good are you?" To answer this question, any Immortal who does not grant healing spells had better have something very potent up his or her sleeve. Oh no. IMC I gave priests of Ixion no access to healing OR divination. They get mage Elemental Fire, are immune to fire, can do produce flame once per level per day, and get many combat oriented spells. The PCs met an Enduk Ixion priest, and initially slagged her off for not getting healing. Times change... no that Enduk is a valued henchman, and every player and character thinks that Ixion is the best Immortal of all. Why? - because his clerics arent reduced to Field Medic status like most priests - when a priest doesnt waste all his spells doing healing (because he cant) its amazing just how much damage a priest can inflict, and how much that priest can amp the fellow party members. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:19:05 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac 36/48 At 11:46 PM 5/17/98 +0200, you wrote: >KLARMONT 1, AC 1015: Ierendi Crown Tourney. LLocation: Ierendi. OW >The young woman is often called "Strawberry" by the locals due to her gardening skills at growing the fruit. As for the name and gender of the child, you'll just have to ask Strawberry. roflmao Looks good! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:42:14 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals At 10:47 PM 5/17/98 -0400, you wrote: >Galwylin wrote: >>I don't believe that curing spells can be >>available to clerics that don't worship an Immortal. >I think too many clerics get curing spells. It's almost a rite of passage.. how many Immortals are really interested in Healing? I give you Healing Immortals.. and maybe Immortals of War and Peace, Medicine, Health.. perhaps even Life and Death. But not many.. >Asterius the Thief/Fence/Smuggler/Dilletente Mage has been called a "Messenger," ala Hermes.. I see a caduceus, I see a benevolent DM giving access to the sphere of Healing to Asterius followers. Even though it has little to do with Asterius' own history as a thief/fence/smuggler/dabbling mage. >Most Immortals shouldn't be able to grant curing spells. >However, firm belief in one's alignment, which was the entire basis for the D&D Cleric before the innovations of Immortals.. used to be enough for curing spells (and the rest). Now that we have Immortals, can we just discard that faithful old cleric? I tend to make up specific spell lists for priests and paladins in my own campaign. On an individual basis I assign spells. Basic healings and curings are pretty much a standard...but the more powerful spells like Raise Dead and Raise Dead Fully I only grant to specific pantheons. Others, like Immortals of War, might recieve a plague spell or some such.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:44:50 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Night Dragons At 07:13 PM 5/18/98 +1000, you wrote: >Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >>>I Believe that the knight dragons are mentioned in the Champions of Mystara boxed set (based on the Princess Ark stuff) >>Knight dragons? Are those the ones that rescue maidens from evil princes? >>(Sorry, couldn't resist :) >Indeed tis a common sight where I come from noble knight dragons riding up on their white chargers and rescuing fair damsels in distress!!!! Actually...I am starting to envision this Knight Dragon in a serious light...maybe I am working too hard... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 09:38:57 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Getting into aimless chit-chat At 12:52 PM 5/18/98 +0100, you wrote: >I've worked out since getting Net access that all the religious persecution against roleplayers in the USA actually does (did?) go on. Remember the Puritan influence in our early history. We are very concerned about doing right, which I am proud of. At the same time, it is generally those who take a Bible as literal view who get upset over D&D. With all the bewildering dangers for peoples' children, I can not blame them for worrying over a game that sets up stats for demons and whatnot. They get very upset over anything to do with spellcasting as well... In any case, my point has always been to try and gently educate those who will listen while just staying away from those who won't. >I find that absolutely unbelievable. No one in England who plays D+D (and ive met quite a few) over the years gets at all worried about any religious implications or anything (like the Immortal Storm, where the Immortals go to Earth (which is in an outer plane) and say that there is one Immortal there, but he hasnt got any power... I think I would get upset over that. But I don't think the module exactly put it that way. As I recall, it said there was one Immortal but he did not often communicate. I have not picked up that module in a while though. >And there is no slating of roleplayers by the religious either. It is, after all, just a game. That's the point. I often ask, "Hey, Monopoly is a game too. Are you concerned your children will grow up to worship money? Will that be the driving force in their lives?" Keep in mind, the censorship crowd has always been out there. When The Wizard of Oz, an attempt to create an American Faery Tale, was published the Library director of Ohio came out strongly against it. He was against "escapist" literature in general as he feared the effect it might have on children. He envisioned children who would seek to escape from reality in their imaginations whenever life got tough. Anytime some says "Do it for the children" I get a little suspicious. Not about the speaker's motives, but about how well the speaker has thought through the implications. >Funny that the USA, with atheist founding fathers, has no official national religion, but is far more extreme, IMHO, than English relgion, which is official. Not true. Most of the founding fathers believed in God. Many of them were deists. America was founded on a belief in God. We have kept those strong Puritan leanings. In fact, one of the problems we Irish had when we came over, was our strong Catholic tendencies. Seems the Protestants were awfully suspicious... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:07:14 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara I believe that there are large tribes of kobolds and gnolls on the border of Ylaruam and Northern Reaches (the Hardangers). This might explain why there isn't much cultural influence. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 15:24:37 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac AC 1015 Well, well. It seems the authors of the Almanac were determined to kill off everybody :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:34:42 -0700 From: Joseph Elric Smith Servant to Arioch Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: mystara-digest V1997 #320 I'm glad to see I wasn't the only one a bit upset by this huge blast with out any warning. Heck I find it rude to receive that much stuff with out warning. oh well Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:57:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #331 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com guess I'm in the minority again. thanks ken Pierre Savoie wrote: NOT COOL, DUDE! By posting all these volumes of stuff all on the >same day, you blew out both my mail and disk quota on my Internet account here. Can't you dispense this stuff more slowly over several days? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:39:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac Kudos on an excellent job all around! Wonderful work; I copied it into a WordPad file, and it's over 1.5 megs in size. BIG! I have a question. I don't have the Joshuan's Almanac, but I understand that it doesn't include a current events section as every other Almanac has. Has anyone put together a current events list for 1013? Or am I totally wrong about the JA? Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 17:54:40 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta & Lupins At 14.04 16/05/98 +0200, you wrote: >Another question: what's teh attitude of rakasta towards lupins (and vice-versa)? >Is it like dwarves and goblins? Alfheim elves and Shadowelves? Glantrians and clerics? >From what it's written in VotPA and RS set i inferred the two races are on friendly terms (see Bellayne and Renardy), though there might be rivalries as is common among different cultures.. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 17:57:27 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Not as confused about the Hollow World Maestro PI wrote: >First off, Maestro 3.14159265359... wouldn't fit... Oh! *chuckle* I understand now.. ;p >I offer the concept that if the immortals new, or had something to do with Blackmoor, they may have evacuated the crust of Urt, performing some kind of >massive teleport either before or immediately after the explosion, in order to >protect both the life on Mystara and Urt herself. They transport the crust to >a new location in space, population and all, and let Urt heal and start all >over. With a megaliths help, such a feat should not be inconcievable. IMHO it is an interesting theory, but i would view it in a slightly different way: it is not the crust which has been transported away, rather the core (the megalith properly), in order not to poison it with the nuclear energy released from Blackmoor. After all, Mystara has always been in the same solar system from what we can infer from the immortal sets.. I think removing the core would be a better solution. There is however a single inconsistency with this theory: in HW timeline it is said that Ka first "discovered" the world was Hollow, which is not the same as saying "Ka made the world Hollow".. However, i guess we could overlook that reference.. ;) Anyway, with this hypothesis Mystara is no more Urt nor a megalith. <> It doesn't say there was only one either, however.. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 17:58:01 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revised Patera Timeline Andrew wrote: >Where does this (i mean the plague) come from? <> Very likely. Similar to what happened in RW to precolumbian populations with flu and other diseases brought by conquistadores. >Did you think of any possible link between rakastas and rakshasas? <> Uhmm.. i had something in mind about this.. Couldn't the rakshasa be e perverted breed of rakasta, some rakasta who devoted themselves to dark immortals and were "gifted" with new powers but also a new shape..? It could have been a small group of rakasta who mutated to rakshasas and then spread their "blood" impregnating other rakastas using illusions to masquerade their real nature. I think that since they evolved in Sind, they could have been servants of Hel (who seems very interested in creating new evil races -see beastmen/humanoids). Opinions? >Fleeing persecution, many Rakshasa flee to Patera, where they land in the realm now known as Rajahstan.>> >Wait! How the heck do they arrive there if: a) Patera is virtually undetectable from Mystara; b) the Sindhi rakastas didn't have any flying ship or any other magical means of transportation..? <> Uhmm.. but i thought Infravision has a limited range (60' is the most common range), so it's not possible that they have seen the moon.. Otherwise they would be "blinded" by its heat if it generates so much heat to actually reach the surface.. That's my opinion at least.. <> Okay, i think the logic behind the move is acceptable, but i throw in another idea: maybe the rakshasas performed a special ritual asking their patron to bring them to safety and Hel (or whoever) opened a Gate to Patera, so they fled there. Probably the rakasta shamans/clerics also begged the good powers to lead them to exterminate the rakshasas abominion, not realizing where they were not, and the powers (Ixion?) responded in the same way Hel did.. But i admit your theory of a natural passageway is more intriguing: this gives us a permanent gate between Mystara and Patera (somewhere in Sind or in the Great Waste).. >Rakasta weretypes? I thought lycanthropy was fatal to non-humans.. <> Okay, i can accept this. Then only the true demihumans (elves, halflings, dwarves and gnomes) are killed by lycanthropy, all the others can be infected. BTW, regarding the gnome-weretiger of PC2, he's not a weretiger for he turns only while under stress and in his airplane. I think this is more a sort of "curse" or dramatic effect than a real lycanthropy.. ><< 460 AC- Hirameki abdicates the throne to pursue Immortality. Ieyasu Kitahara named his successor. 4 class system instituted in Myoshima.>> >Is this the same caste system from Sindhi culture? <> I think i have understood. BTW is Myoshima based on the Edo or the Meiji era? ><<920 AC- Bellaynish first reach Patera, where they settle the island nation of Selimpore and establish a mercantile society. They trade and war with surrounding nations.>> >Again, how? Flying beasts? But remember: Myoshima is invisible.. so.. <> I would go with the first idea u used in your previous timeline: magic storms which are in fact ripstorms that create a Vortigern Vortex connected to Myoshima. They only occur at sea (near Bellayne) and it's not easy to predict exactly where and when they will strike. So some Bellaynish ships were probably caught in the middle and transported to Myoshima, where they landed in a river/lake or even in open fields. When they then discovered the storms could also bring them back, they brought news to the Queen and established Selimpore. However, as you said, communication is difficult (i'd say there are no more than 3 such ripstorms per year, which are bidirectional, and in most cases the astronomers are only able to predict 2 of them, and with a bit of luck and calculations the Bellaynish are able to take one per year to Selimpore, meaning that they will stay there for at least one year..). Sounds good? DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 17:58:34 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaraspace Robert Fry wrote: <> So you're saying that you run Mystara in the Savage Coast and the other two Planescape and Spelljammer, uh? But are the three campaigns linked somehow (same PCs or NPCs..) or do you switch when the PCs pass from one setting to the others (for example from SC go to Outer Planes -PS DM is in charge- or to Voidspace -SJ DM's turn)? Interesting thing.. I wish i could have the same opportunity.. ;) >For those of you interested in a Spelljammer-Mystara conversion guide and in Mystaraspace, look in my site at this Universal Resource Locator: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/ >and click on the section labeled "Mystara and Spelljammer" >*end plug* <> I am really happy you did it! Take everything you want, after all it's there to help any of you run your campaigns. :) >Btw, Rob: what are the concrete effects of the Energy Field enclosing Mystaraspace? <> GOOD! A very logical explanation, my compliments! I like it and i'll use it. Btw, do you think it could somehow prevent "magical teleportation" outside Mystaraspace? Also, what do you think would be the effects of the field on spaceships powered by magic AND technology? Also, you said you've already run Tale of the Comet: tell me, where did u stage it and how did u run it (did u take the party to the arcology?)? << Maybe the reverse is true with magic - so magic isnt as effective when beyond the energy field and into the Milky Way. I havnt decided this yet... But lacking the City of the Gods adventure I was going to rip off and alter Star Frontiers and put that Out There in the Milky Way - and say that the Frontier is the result of Blackmoor colonists.>> Well, i wouldn't say Magic doesn't function outside Mystaraspace. Take the oards' world, Aelos: it's located in another part of the galaxy and it had magic! Also, if you take into consideration the description of old Alphatia from M1, it says it was located in another part of the Galaxy.. so it has magic. I'd say there are systems where magic functions normally, others where it's enhanced (Mystaraspace) and others where it's restricted or not known by its inhabitants, though it functions.. As for the Federation, i haven't used it to be sincere, but i've made up my own space empire located far away but reachable via a secret "Wormhole" (DS9). There are already aliens on Mystara.. ;p <> Well, while it is true for the Ethereal (it is basically the "ether version" of our universe), it is not so for the Astral. To my knowledge (D&D), it is a universe of its own, with planets, voidspace and stars.. Only the magic functions differently and there are different races. And the Outer Planes are located sparsely in all directions. Astral and Prime are somehow linked, but since the first doesn't mirror the second, then it's a hard guess to understand where you could pop in if you change plane in different places. <> I see.. Basically is Planescape trying to swallow everything.. a bit pretentious if you ask me.. but i understand it's a matter of simplicity. <> But that would make the immortals less powerful than deities (they rule DEMIplanes and not in the great ring), and they are not IMHO. <> Aarrgh...! Never ever ever mention that boxed set in my presence.. ;p << I liked the idea (once again purloined form the Web) that the Old Ones are Cthulu type bad guys out to Destroy the Multiverse, and they have somehow been imprisoned in the Dimension of Nightmares. But the wardings that imprison them there are starting to break down, and they are now beginning to be able to influence the planes again - and Ravenloft is the beginning of this.>> Actually, i never said Old Ones are evil. Nobody really knows what they are, though their intervention in WotI seem to imply they're not evil. IMHO Old Ones live BEYOND the Barrier, and INSIDE the Barrier dwell other creatures imprisoned there by Old Ones or other powerful creatures. The Barrier is a multi-layered dimension in itself, and it is there that, IMC, the Dark Powers and Ravenloft dwell, as well as the "Cthulhu type" powers of Yhog (maybe the DP and these creatures are the same?) and Arik.. etc, etc.. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #331 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:26:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #332 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Monday, May 18 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 332 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta & Lupins Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - Not as confused about the Hollow World [MYSTARA] - Oh my god, you nearly killed my email account [MYSTARA] - Almanac: too much stuff will kill u.. Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons (was Night Dragons) Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaraspace Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons (was Night Dragons) [MYSTARA] - can we take a break on this Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac [MYSTARA] - SORRY! Re: [MYSTARA] - SORRY! Re: [MYSTARA] - Night Dragons [MYSTARA] - The New Radience ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 09:18:08 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta & Lupins >Another question: what's the attitude of rakasta towards lupins (and vice-versa)? >Is it like dwarves and goblins? Alfheim elves and Shadowelves? Glantrians >and clerics? It's cordial with a little bit of a rivalry going on between the two of them, beside the lupins main enemy is the Loup Garou, otherwise known as the Werewolf ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 18:46:54 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac At 11.39 18/05/98 -0400, you wrote: >Kudos on an excellent job all around! Wonderful work; I copied it into a WordPad file, and it's over 1.5 megs in size. BIG! First of all thanks for the compliments, also on behalf of the other fellow editors. :) >I have a question. I don't have the Joshuan's Almanac, but I understand that it doesn't include a current events section as every other Almanac has. Has anyone put together a current events list for 1013? Or am I totally wrong about the JA? The second option is the right one :) Joshuan has all the faults you want, but at least it has a timeline for year AC1013 (albeit a very short and not omniscient collection of events that range from useless to important ones)... I think you can live without it, however.. ;p DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:44:50 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Not as confused about the Hollow World At 05:57 PM 5/18/98 +0200, you wrote: >Maestro PI wrote: >IMHO it is an interesting theory, but i would view it in a slightly different way: it is not the crust which has been transported away, rather the core (the megalith properly), in order not to poison it with the nuclear energy released from Blackmoor. After all, Mystara has always been in the same solar system from what we can infer from the immortal sets.. I think removing the core would be a better solution. There is however a single inconsistency with this theory: in HW timeline it is said that Ka first "discovered" the world was Hollow, which is not the same as saying "Ka made the world Hollow".. However, i guess we could overlook that reference.. ;) >Anyway, with this hypothesis Mystara is no more Urt nor a megalith. This could actually answer the brainteaser I tossed out from before: "Why did the Immortals not stick a Blackmoor in the HW?" The answer would be: "Because it took all the Immortals together to move old Urt to safety!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 09:51:03 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Oh my god, you nearly killed my email account >On Sun, 17 May 1998, it was written: >>mystara-digest Sunday, May 17 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 320 >NOT COOL, DUDE! By posting all these volumes of stuff all on the same day, you blew out both my mail and disk quota on my Internet account >here. Can't you dispense this stuff more slowly over several days? dude, since my spring break it has take me some time until the Pentecost to clear a meg. of memory, now i have to do it again. (Groan) man no i got to create a web page for this stuff, work of advice send it all in order. *************************************************************************** TTTo unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >>'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. >I'm tempted to... >---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) same here. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 18:52:37 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Almanac: too much stuff will kill u.. At 10.34 18/05/98 -0700, Joseph Elric Smith wrote: II'm glad to see I wasn't the only one a bit upset by this huge blast with out any >warning. Heck I find it rude to receive that much stuff with out warning. oh well >guess I'm in the minority again. >Pierre Savoie wrote: NOT COOL, DUDE! By posting all these volumes of >stuff all on the same day, you blew out both my mail and disk quota on my Internet >account here. Can't you dispense this stuff more slowly over several days? I excuse myself for the inconvenient and i think i can speak for the other editors too saying that we didn't expect to cause you so much trouble. If any other member of the MML felt somehow hampered by these posts, please excuse us. I guess we'll learn from this inconvenient and use a different method of delivering the almanac in the future.. Bye and again sorry ;) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:00:15 CEST From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac >Kudos on an excellent job all around! Wonderful work; I copied it into a >WordPad file, and it's over 1.5 megs in size. BIG! Then wordpad makes it bigger than it is: the text files are about 1MB total. And thanks for the compliments. I hope you continue say so when you've read it ;) BTW, sorry to all those that had their mailbox explode because of the mass post. (Mine was on over quota too, but fortunately hotmail leaves us a day to clean it before it cleans itself..) BTW, my mailbox was so full because I received it three times (once as the editor's version, the mml version, and the digest version!) We should have warned you. >I have a question. I don't have the Joshuan's Almanac, but I understand >that it doesn't include a current events section as every other Almanac has. >Has anyone put together a current events list for 1013? Or am I totally >wrong about the JA? Yes, JA has some events for 1013, but very few compared to a PWA. Some events for 1013 (esp for the Alphatian area and the HW) were inserted into the Mystaran Almanac AC 1014 (which means they are not "canon"). All in all, when you add JA+MA1014, you have quite a few events for 1013, though not as much as in a regular PWA or MA. PS: If you don't have MA1014, I advise you to retrieve it (and read it before MA1015, if possible). _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Almanac page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 18:35:25 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons (was Night Dragons) >Hi folks, >>Indeed tis a common sight where I come from noble knight dragons riding up on their white chargers and rescuing fair damsels in distress!!!! >Seems that you are into Dragonlance-Theme. >This point brings me to a new discussion-topic. >How do dragons in Mystara behave ?? >I like Mystara because these are THREE dragon-immortals under the guidance of a single one (The Great One). --> Think of it a father-sons-relation and the father doesn´t want to prefer one over the other!! >E.g. in WotI (IMC) the Great One forbode the dragons to participate in humanoid quarrels. (Dragonlance-idea background) But the three immortals just think of their kind (good,neutral,evil) and each wants to further just his cause, his power, his motives. >On the other hand: why should only the "evil" /only the "good ones" have the right to fly/use dragons. >Dragons are far superior to humanoids in age/wisdom/knowledge and might. So what are the personal motives to participate in human struggle. Why take the risk of being killed and the like. >Any comments? >PS: I don´t count my posts on this list anymore because it seems to me that nobody is ever interested in my posts. Am I only writing brainless stuff ?? >An interested Wizzard Seems that Thor Gunnarsson has answered most of this lot in his trilogy... In case you havnt read them this is what i remember vaguely (sorry, i didnt like them much and it was an effort to read the entire thing, so feel free to contradict me) Blackmoorian humans once mounted a crusade against the dragons and almost drove them to extinction, after a misunderstanding between Blackmoor and the dragons. Most dragons live happily in the Wyrmsteeth Mountains in Norwold (pretty much the "Nation of Dragons", although that term indicates more of a social unit rather than boundaries on a map), and have very little to do with the human race. The Nation of Dragons has a sort of code of non interference when it comes to humans, as a result of an ancient treaty drawn up with the Blackmoorian humans long ago, which the dragons still honour. However, some dragons are renegades, and run off and capture fair damsels and that sort of thing. As to why these renegades allow themselves to be ridden by humans or decide that Theres Good Eating on That Damsel - i think thats more of a case-by-case thing. Perhaps the dragon hopes to gain power, dislikes the orderedness of the Nation of Dragons, is bored and wants to kick some human butt, or has fallen in love with a human (whats that gold dragon called in Glantri again?). Who knows? One thing I do know is that Crimson Dragons of the Savage Coast 1) generally dislike swashbuckling antics, and either try to one-up the humans by being the Ultimate Swashbuckler 2) read the above, but the dragon is NOT a swashbuckler and enjoys frying them and exhibiting a total lack of swashbuckling honour (ie no mercy for the fop with the silly pin) 3) hates araneas, because they kicked in all the dragons on the Savage Coast leaving only a small number behind, (a sideshow in the aranea/wallara war) and probably goes around finding araneas and Dueling Them To the Death. Sorry, after rereading what ive written i noticed that this isnt answering your question very well. Ah well - dragons arent my specialty... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:09:05 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaraspace ><> >So you're saying that you run Mystara in the Savage Coast and the other two Planescape and Spelljammer, uh? But are the three campaigns linked somehow (same PCs or NPCs..) or do you switch when the PCs pass from one setting to the others (for example from SC go to Outer Planes -PS DM is in charge- or to Voidspace -SJ DM's turn)? Interesting thing.. I wish i could have the same opportunity.. ;) Well, we have a little crossplaying - though not much. The day of no magic had repercussions in Planescape, even tho it didnt effect other planes (what are those primes doing down there?) and even affected a few crystal spheres near Mystaraspace, making an elven imperial fleet armada crashland (although the effects of the Day of No Magic diminished the farther one travels from Mystaraspace, so it didnt effect the Realms at all - damn! - because Mystaraspace is on the edge of Known Space in the aforementioned Spelljammer romp). In one Planescape adventure we stopped all the Lower Planars from being able to teleport without error, and now they want revenge, so they have been poking around Mystara. And a Glantrian Alchemist has set up shop in Sigil and is horribly undercutting all the golem making mages there and driving them out of business... >GOOD! A very logical explanation, my compliments! I like it and i'll use it. Btw, do you think it could somehow prevent "magical teleportation" outside Mystaraspace? Also, what do you think would be the effects of the field on spaceships powered by magic AND technology? Also, you said you've already run Tale of the Comet: tell me, where did u stage it and how did u run it (did u take the party to the arcology?)? ><< Maybe the reverse is true with magic - so magic isnt as effective when beyond the energy field and into the Milky Way. I havnt decided this yet... Yeah, they went to the arcology, and I didnt take away their magic (so I guess i answered my own question there). I had the Fworta crashland in the mountains of northern Karameikos - swapping a minor Alfheim clan for the elves, a CoK monastery for Aston Monastery, and binning the seaport idea and having a trading outpost on the Selenica road instead. I had it so that any use of technology had a 10% chance of Something Bad happening while on Mystara, thus limiting its use. I also had the Al-Azrad merchant house salvage pretty much everything they could from Fworta afterwards and to prevent misuse- plus, its theirs, as it landed on their territory... (Indiana Jones, when the Lost Ark is locked up in the warehouse?) Rheddrian has got hold of some of it, thanks to his position as Darokinian Merchant - incidentally Jazra is now friends with Rheddrian and lives in Darokin City... Most of the adventure I ran on the arcology really - didnt have a great deal happen on Mystara. I didnt want to wreck the planet with all the technology, i was trying to keep its influence down as much as possible. Hence the emphasis on the arcology. BTW - what was quite humourous is that in that oard advenuture, which i ran previously for the same characters, they ran into Astafas, a Blackmoorian chronomancer (with his all-terrain-vehicle Time Machine) who doled out some technomantic items, like grenades and such, because it was too high level for the party. I also changed it from Aelos to Mystaran prehistory - with a bit of change in the timeline... I swapped the forest bit at the beginning to very early Evergrun (sort of 6000BC), the discovery of iron part to the early Thonian empire, and the Isle of the Sorcerors to ~500 years before the Great Rain of Fire, on an elven island where Calitha Starbrow (mortal) was the archmage... >Well, i wouldn't say Magic doesn't function outside Mystaraspace. Take the oards' world, Aelos: it's located in another part of the galaxy and it had magic! hmm - read the above! >Also, if you take into consideration the description of old Alphatia from M1, it says it was located in another part of the Galaxy.. so it has I was under the impression from the Codex of the Immortals that Old Alphatia was in a demiplane - filled with air by Alphatian Air Magic - and that it was the act of filling the entire plane with air that started the Air vs Fire debate... And that the demiplane of Old Alphatia is affiliated to the Sphere of Energy, which is why the Alphatians are so magically inclined. I may be wrong on this paragraph... ><Planescape this is a guess) that space in the Astral and Ethereal planes corresponds to space in the Prime - in other words, by "clustered around Mystara" I mean that if you travel from Mystara to the Astral or Ethereal you will be near all those demiplanes. Or to put it another way, colour pools around those Demiplanes lead to Prime Mystara.>> >Well, while it is true for the Ethereal (it is basically the "ether version" of our universe), it is not so for the Astral. To my knowledge (D&D), it is a universe of its own, with planets, voidspace and stars.. Only the magic functions differently and there are different races. And the Outer Planes are located sparsely in all directions. Astral and Prime are somehow linked, but since the first doesn't mirror the second, then it's a hard guess to understand where you could pop in if you change plane in different places. This is the change from D+D to AD+D planes coming in again (sorry!). I think in AD+D the astral does behave more like the ether of D+D... ><> >I see.. Basically is Planescape trying to swallow everything.. a bit pretentious if you ask me.. but i understand it's a matter of simplicity. I have to say that the Pretentious Award goes to the Immortal Storm, where the Real World is but an insignificant Outer Plane floating in the infinity of the D+D Astral... :) ><> >But that would make the immortals less powerful than deities (they rule DEMIplanes and not in the great ring), and they are not IMHO. Ahh - that all depends on your point of view. Keep in mind that the term "demiplane" is an AD+D one, and one that I dont use when running Mystara. I consider demiplane to be what the Planars call them - but who is to say whether Baator or Pyts is the "real" hell? Of course the planars would label them as insignificant demiplanes... they would. Perhaps it is they that are "Clueless berks..." Considering the power of immortals vs gods, IMC Immortals are physically more powerful and more active (after all, they were all mortal once, and to some extent still have the mortal urge to go out and adventure and better themselves, which Gods dont) so an Immortal would beat up a God in a brawl, and Gods are more static - Immortals go up levels, Gods only rarely go up levels. Immortals have more avatars as well (a side effect of combining Legends and Lore with the Codex of the Immortals... :). On the other hand, Immortals have a "lifespan" (they all eventually get bored and disperse themselves) because mentally they are still to some extent tied to being mortal, and they are not omniscient, like most Gods are (Legends and Lore again), dont have Infinite Patience and are generally more... well, mortal! I suppose Immortals are Gods with the mindset of Mortals... ><< I liked the idea (once again purloined form the Web) that the Old Ones are Cthulu type bad guys out to Destroy the Multiverse, and they have somehow been imprisoned in the Dimension of Nightmares. But the wardings that imprison them there are starting to break down, and they are now beginning to be able to influence the planes again - and Ravenloft is the beginning of this.>> >Actually, i never said Old Ones are evil. Nobody really knows what they are, though their intervention in WotI seem to imply they're not evil. IMHO Old Ones live BEYOND the Barrier, and INSIDE the Barrier dwell other creatures imprisoned there by Old Ones or other powerful creatures. The Barrier is a multi-layered dimension in itself, and it is there that, IMC, the Dark Powers and Ravenloft dwell, as well as the "Cthulhu type" powers of Yhog (maybe the DP and these creatures are the same?) and Arik.. etc, etc.. There is Definitely mention somewhere of the Old Ones perhaps being evil Cthulu types somewhere... maybe on a Ravenloft web page (try Shawn Stanleys stuff DM - I seem to recall an article on Ravenloft there)... Yes, I have the Old Ones Beyond the dem... sorry, DIMENSION of nightmares (lol) as well. (Check out Shawns page! Im sure Im repeating someone elses stuff here!). The Nightmare Lands are a sort of neutral ground where the minds of Old Ones and Mortals can touch in a limited fashion... BTW - IMC Ixion hates the Gods of the AD+D universe, and does all sorts to generally obstruct them - he really does not like the Immortal Odin, who is suspected of being a God... I got this idea from the fact that Ixion in AD+D is one of the ancient Greeks imprisoned in Tarterus for Defying the Gods... and his sentence was to spin on a Wheel of Fire for all eternity... theres a picture of him in the Planes of Conflict planescape box... (and that really IS Greek myth, as well) Coincidence? lol Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 14:05:08 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons (was Night Dragons) At 06:35 PM 5/18/98 +0100, you wrote: >Seems that Thor Gunnarsson has answered most of this lot in his trilogy... In case you havnt read them this is what i remember vaguely (sorry, i didnt like them much and it was an effort to read the entire thing, so feel free to contradict me) I did not like them much either. I can say that officially now, as I finally brought myself to skim the final book. Yes, as everyone has said, it is the better one. But I still don't like it. Nyah! >Blackmoorian humans once mounted a crusade against the dragons and almost drove them to extinction, after a misunderstanding between Blackmoor and the dragons. I did not like the characterization of Blackmoor. I was not looking for an overt indication of the level of technology, but I would have liked to see a hint. Just a reference to "The strange magics of Blackmoor" would have satisfied me. >Most dragons live happily in the Wyrmsteeth Mountains in Norwold I felt like the guy read Bruce Heard's article and then discarded what he did not like (most of it). >(pretty much the "Nation of Dragons", although that term indicates more of a social unit rather than boundaries on a map), and have very little to do with the human race. I prefer to think of the Wyrmsteeth as "A nation of Dragons". As opposed to "The". Bruce's original article set up a rivalry among the dragon nations of the Known world that really sparked my imagination. I could see draconic bickerings of a sort that would make the most jaded human politician quiver in fear and revulsion. But in those novels, I got more of a sense of happy dragons frolicking together in their single nation and living peacably until those mean nasty humans came along every now and then and mucked it up. The Nation of Dragons has a sort of code of non iinterference when it comes to humans, as a result of an ancient treaty drawn up with the Blackmoorian humans long ago, which the dragons still honour. This is sort of related...I thought the Old One was a bit wimpy. I like to see him as a massively powerful, though often distant as far as "human" Immortals and mortals, being who is almost elemental in nature. He loves the dragons and the dragon rulers but takes little interest in other things... >However, some dragons are renegades, and run off and capture fair damsels and that sort of thing. As to why these renegades allow themselves to be ridden by humans or decide that Theres Good Eating on That Damsel - i think thats more of a case-by-case thing. Yeah, I like my dragons to be draconic and to have a good appetite for damsels! Both of which were not present in those novels. >Perhaps the dragon hopes to gain power, dislikes the orderedness of the Nation of Dragons, is bored and wants to kick some human butt, or has fallen in love with a human (whats that gold dragon called in Glantri again?). Who knows? I wrote a novel length story about Jaggar and his life as a dragon. I hope to get it published someday, so I won't comment too much. But I have decided to partially reconcile it to those 3 novels...easily done I think... >One thing I do know is that Crimson Dragons of the Savage Coast You mean like Pyre? Where are they discussed? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:04:56 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - can we take a break on this Reading these files, as well as setting up the webpage for it may take me up to a month to do, by which i got an assignment, since my Account is fast reaching my quota, so can we please convene the MML discussion until wednesday, since Gallidox gave us to much information, Please? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 15:01:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac At 06:46 PM 5/18/98 +0200, you wrote: >The second option is the right one :) >Joshuan has all the faults you want, but at least it has a timeline for year AC1013 (albeit a very short and not omniscient collection of events that range from useless to important ones)... I think you can live without it, however.. ;p NO! I WANT IT! I WANT IT!!! I WANT EVERYTHING! EVERYTHING, YOU HEAR?!?!? *Ahem* Sorry about that. Mystara obsession. I'll get over it. Really. Anyway, I was peeking over the vast amount of information and noticed that in the description of Vanya's Rest, you don't specify which Dragon magazine it was described in. If it helps, it's Princess Ark part 4, in Dragon #156, April 1990. Like I said, obsession. I found it in thirty seconds. I know it all. Or pretty close. Is this good use or a waste of brainpower? :-( Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 22:04:15 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: [MYSTARA] - SORRY! At 19.01 17/05/98 -0400, Pierre Savoie wrote: >NOT COOL, DUDE! By posting all these volumes of stuff all on the same day, you blew out both my mail and disk quota on my Internet account here. Can't you dispense this stuff more slowly over several days? George Valencia added >same here. DM replied >I excuse myself for the inconvenient and i think i can speak for the other editors too saying that we didn't expect to cause you so much trouble. If any other member of the MML felt somehow hampered by these posts, please excuse us. I guess we'll learn from this inconvenient and use a different method of delivering the almanac in the future.. and finally Herve wrote >BTW, sorry to all those that had their mailbox explode because of the mass post. No need to excuse yourself my friends, it's completely MY fault because it was me that actually posted all those files. I didn't realize that it would have caused so much trouble. I hope we'll find a better way of delivering the Almanac next year. Sorry again. PS: maybe as penance I should keep silent for a week, what do you think? ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 15:17:17 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - SORRY! >No need to excuse yourself my friends, it's completely MY fault because it >was me that actually posted all those files. I didn't realize that it would >have caused so much trouble. I hope we'll find a better way of delivering >the Almanac next year. >Sorry again. >PS: maybe as penance I should keep silent for a week, what do you think? no need to hang yourself, you just a gave us week to sort out this tangled mess (my apologies), and i my case set up a week page, before hotmail decides to throw out my mail. and think the MML will be quiet for maybe a week. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:40:33 +1000 From: Anakin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Night Dragons Previosly on this channel: >>>Knight dragons? Are those the ones that rescue maidens from evil princes? >>>(Sorry, couldn't resist :) >>Indeed tis a common sight where I come from noble knight dragons riding up on their white chargers and rescuing fair damsels in distress!!!! >Actually...I am starting to envision this Knight Dragon in a serious light...maybe I am working too hard... Well let's run with this idea and see what we get. perhaps the result of a young metallic dragon, or confused chromatic becoming too interested in the past-times of the humans of mystara (I know of at least one point of contact, the retibius air fleet). perhaps the aforementioned dragon either grows up with humans or is extremely interested in human culture and adopts parts of it, ie the honour system of knights etc. Well?, whaddya think Anakin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:26:10 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: [MYSTARA] - The New Radience By Rafiel Himself. It is complete. I have never been so filled with joy. But the Almanac asked the right questions: The Radience was altered to sap magic when used, to weaken the sphere of Energy's influence on the Prime. Now there is a second "Radience", around 500 Miles from the original. The Immortals of every other Sphere have a right to be afraid, very afraid. 2 Powers like that of the Radience could, theoretically propel Energy to a vastly superior position in Immortal politics. Personally, I would give the New Radience about one Mystaran Year or less, before the general populace of Immortals know about it. And what of the DoD? I wonder if some mages suddenly found that they could cast at say, 9:00 PM, Glantri time, that may come as a shock, and maybe releif if they are under attack (I can see a cool scenario here involving the PCs) But the most important question is: What will the immortals think? This development affects them the most. Matter: Very afraid. Energy has dominance over Matter, and If energy has more dominance, matter could be in major trouble. Time: Theoretically, with water dominant over fire, time is relatively safe. But the radience makes that fire much more of a force to be reckoned with. Maybe even equal to the Sphere of Time. Thought: Opposing Energy, this sphere is traditionally Equal in strength, the imbalance may force Thought into immediate action. Either way, all the other spheres will try their best to destroy, or maybe Weaken the New Radience. What about Rad? Both he and Rafiel are interested in the same things. It would be interesting to see if there is any rivalry or cooperation between the two because of their studies. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #332 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, May 19 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 333 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Night Dragons [MYSTARA] - Underocean Timeline AC 1013 [MYSTARA] - dragons???? Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons???? Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta & Lupins Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta & Lupins Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons???? Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons (was Night Dragons) [MYSTARA] - firearms Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons????/half dragons [MYSTARA] - Overload of E-mail accounts Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta & Lupins Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons???? Re: [MYSTARA] - firearms Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons????/half dragons Re: [MYSTARA] - Revised Patera Timeline Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta & Lupins ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:51:41 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Night Dragons At 08:40 AM 5/19/98 +1000, you wrote: >Previosly on this channel: >>>>Knight dragons? Are those the ones that rescue maidens from evil princes? >>>>(Sorry, couldn't resist :) >>>Indeed tis a common sight where I come from noble knight dragons riding up on their white chargers and rescuing fair damsels in distress!!!! >>Actually...I am starting to envision this Knight Dragon in a serious light...maybe I am working too hard... >Well let's run with this idea and see what we get. perhaps the result of a young metallic dragon, or confused chromatic becoming too interested in the past-times of the humans of mystara (I know of at least one point of contact, the retibius air fleet). >perhaps the aforementioned dragon either grows up with humans or is extremely interested in human culture and adopts parts of it, ie the honour system of knights etc. I, for one, love it! Perhaps a crystal dragon? One of the illustrious "Knights of the White Drakes"? Those dragon riders who were sworn to fight evil! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 20:41:48 -0500 From: anowack@juno.com (Aaron E Nowack) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Underocean Timeline AC 1013 Nuwmont 1: A New Year The triton celebrate the new year while cleaning up from the Day of Dread. Nuwmont 18: Ambassadors Report The ambassadors to the aquatic beholders report that the leader of the beholders has died and that a new leader has been chosen. This new leader seems to be opposed to Underocean. Vatermont 15: Ambassadors Slain The ambassadors to the aquatic beholder city are murdered. A single guard escapes and carries word of the trechary to Underocean. Vatermont 17: War Declared Juliast asks the Council of Advisors to declare war on the aquatic beholders. The Council approves on a vote of 5-1. Vatermont 20: Underocean Needs You! Juliast begins an advertisment campaign to entice young triton into joining the army. Thaumont 3: Campaign Begins Juliast leads the army, including the Maelstrom Guards, west towards the aquatic beholder city. Thaumont 10: Resistance Met As the invasion force enters the territory ceded to the aquatic beholders last year, the aquatic beholders put up sporadic resistance. Fortunatly, casualties are light. Flaurmont 15: Borders Reached The army reaches the former borders of Underocean. The aquatic beholders put up the first serious resistance, but are defeated. Flaurmont 24: Battle of Aalsa Amoung the sunken ruins of Aalsa, the army deals a major defeat to the aquatic beholders. Yarthmont 17: Underocean Invaded The aquatic beholders send an army around the invading triton, and through the Strait of Aalsa into Underocean. Juliast is forced to send half the army to Underocean to protect it. Klarmont 5: Defeat in Underocean The army that Juliast sent to protect Underocean is ambushed and wiped out. Klarmont 9: Betrayl and Defeat As the Underocean army approaches the city of the aquatic beholders, the aquatic beholders launch an attack. At the same time the Maelstrom Guards turn on their former comrades, and then flee back to Underocean. Juliast is captured by the aquatic beholders. Klarmont 10: Coup in Underocean Maed, Commander of the Maelstrom Guards, seizes power. The other members of the Council flee north. Klarmont 13: Civil War Begins The Council members launch an offensive against Maed, self-proclaimed King of Underocean, begining a civil war. The aquatic beholders seize the western portion of Underocean, while the retreating army arrives in the south. Felmont 9: A New Royal Claimant Gehan, General of the Underocean army and former Council member, proclaims himself King of Underocean. Felmont 16: Aquatic Beholders Stopped "King" Gehan defeats the aquatic beholders, stopping their advance. Frymont 13: Fighting Stops Without a truce, the fighting stops in Underocean. The Council holds the north, Maed controls the Capital, Maelstrom, and the east, the aquatic beholders hold the west, and Gehan the south. Frymont 25: Thyatain Explorers Thyatain explorers begin to explore the New Alphatain Sea. Fortunatly for Underocean this exploration takes place further north. Ambrymont 23: Gehan Killed Gehan is murdered in his sleep. The demoralized army disbands, and Maed and the aquatic beholders begin to clash over the south. Sviftmont 11: Maed Pushed Back The aquatic beholders push Maed out of Southern Underocean, but local resistance forces them to withdraw as well. Eirmont 19: Devilfish Sighted Kelp farmers in the South report sightings of Devilfish. Kaldmont 28: The Day of Dread Magic fails all over Mystara. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 12:00:43 +1000 From: Anakin Subject: [MYSTARA] - dragons???? greetings, I have a question (yet again) what exactly are the breeds of dragon on mystara, I know that there are the basic chromatic dragons (red, white, blue, black and green) as well as gold, all these appear in the OD&D stuff. Then the various crystaline dragons were added later as well as the immortal dragons. Does anyone have an exact list of what dragons do appear on mystara, I also seem to remember the AD&D vresion mentioning other metallics being present on mystara... ANAKIN *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 23:10:23 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons???? At 12:00 PM 5/19/98 +1000, you wrote: >greetings, >I have a question (yet again) >what exactly are the breeds of dragon on mystara, I know that there are the basic chromatic dragons (red, white, blue, black and green) as well as gold, all these appear in the OD&D stuff. Then the various crystaline dragons were added later as well as the immortal dragons. Does anyone have an exact list of what dragons do appear on mystara, I also seem to remember the AD&D vresion mentioning other metallics being present on mystara... There was the bronze dragon from the days of the OOOOLLLDDD blue box. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 23:26:49 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta & Lupins So it is more like the dislike between elves and Dwarves. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 23:31:12 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Kaviyd wrote: >"If you cannot heal, what good are you?" Tell that to the Fighters, Thieves and Magic-Users of Mystara. 3:)> -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 01:47:53 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals In a message dated 98-05-18 08:09:50 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: >Oh no. IMC I gave priests of Ixion no access to healing OR divination. TThey get mage Elemental Fire, are immune to fire, can do produce flame once per level per day, and get many combat oriented spells. The PCs met an Enduk Ixion priest, and initially slagged her off for not getting healing. That priest is an example of just how that lack of healing could be replaced by "something potent up his sleeve" -- those fire and other combat spells would allow him to fill the role of party wizard. But if he is the only priest in the party, then your party will have to deal with the same issues that a typical party of pre-Wrath Glantrian adventurers would face -- some source of healing is needed, or the party will not be able to handle very many combats before being forced to retreat to a safe haven. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 02:36:31 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals In a message dated 98-05-18 23:49:07 EDT, derek@ix.netcom.com writes: >Tell that to the Fighters, Thieves and Magic-Users of Mystara. 3:)> Ah, but those classes bring totally different sets of abilities to a party. A standard Cleric can fight -- but less effectively than a Fighter. A standard Cleric can cast offensive spells -- but less effectively than a Mage. And of course a standard Cleric is totally useless at the "sneaky stuff" that a Thief specializes in. But he does have the ability to cast healing spells -- and a typical adventuring party will have a real need for such services. And even with the example of that priest of Ixion (who apparently has enough offensive spell power to replace a Mage in the party) as an example, it does seem that a priest who cannot at least cast the equivalent of "Cure Light Wounds" will prove fairly useless to a typical adventuring party unless he has "something up his sleeve" -- in other words, some sort of extraordinary ability that allows him to fill some other role than the stereotypical "Cleric/Medic" role in the party. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 00:25:30 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta & Lupins On Sat, 16 May 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >Comparing the two recent articles by Bruce about Lupins and Rakasta I noticed that all Lupins races live in Brun (mainly in the Savage Coast or Ochalea) except the Norwold Malamute that can be found also in Skothar, while Rakastas can be found almost everywhere, especially in Davania. Why this? Maybe because of the more adventurous nature of cats in comparison to dogs? One big reason is that Rakasta have been around longer. Also, I'd think that Rakasta litters are probably bigger than Lupin litters. >Another question: what's teh attitude of rakasta towards lupins (and vice-versa)? >Is it like dwarves and goblins? Alfheim elves and Shadowelves? Glantrians and clerics? I think it's more like dwarves and elves. They don't really see eye to eye (their attitudes are too different), but they don't necessarily hate one another, and can even get along really well in certain cases. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:29:38 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons???? >greetings, >I have a question (yet again) >what exactly are the breeds of dragon on mystara, I know that there are the basic chromatic dragons (red, white, blue, Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:10:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #333 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com >black and green) as well as gold, all these appear in the OD&D stuff. Then the various crystaline dragons were added later as well as the immortal dragons. Does anyone have an exact list of what dragons do appear on mystara, I also seem to remember the AD&D vresion mentioning other metallics being present on mystara... well, this is from AD+D sources, so lets see... Crimson Dragon Red Hawk Dragon Gold Dragon Crystalline Dragon Ruby Dragon Sapphire Dragon Blue Dragon Jade Dragon Onyx Dragon White Dragon Red Dragon Amber Dragon (called Brown Dragons on Mystara) Green Dragon Black Dragon I think its been changed quite a bit from the oD+D stuff - I remember all sorts of funny colours in the Companion and Master sets. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:23:51 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons (was Night Dragons) >>One thing I do know is that Crimson Dragons of the Savage Coast >You mean like Pyre? Where are they discussed? Crimson dragons and Red Hawk dragons are described in the downloadable SC Monstrous Compendium (with many other cool monsters - yknow the black tar thing that killed Tasha Yar in Star Trek? Thats a twisted aranea thing called a Yeshom...). Theres quite a bit on dragons scattered over the SC stuff - i think theres some stuff in the Orcs Head gaz as well. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 02:45:08 -0500 From: John Normand Subject: [MYSTARA] - firearms how would i go bout useing a firearm in a typical ad&d campain setting like in mystara *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 02:53:13 -0500 From: John Normand Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons????/half dragons are there half dragons in mystara????? Rob wrote: >>greetings, >>I have a question (yet again) >>what exactly are the breeds of dragon on mystara, I know that there are the basic chromatic dragons (red, white, blue, black and green) as well as gold, all these appear in the OD&D stuff. Then the various crystaline dragons were added later as well as the immortal dragons. Does anyone have an exact list of what dragons do appear on mystara, I also seem to remember the AD&D vresion mentioning other metallics being present on mystara... >well, this is from AD+D sources, so lets see... >Crimson Dragon >Red Hawk Dragon >Gold Dragon >Crystalline Dragon >Ruby Dragon >Sapphire Dragon >Blue Dragon >Jade Dragon >Onyx Dragon >White Dragon >Red Dragon >Amber Dragon (called Brown Dragons on Mystara) Green Dragon >Black Dragon >I think its been changed quite a bit from the oD+D stuff - I remember all sorts of funny colours in the Companion and Master sets. >Cheerz >ROB >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 04:03:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Overload of E-mail accounts >Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:34:42 -0700 >From: Joseph Elric Smith Servant to Arioch Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: mystara-digest V1997 #320 >I'm glad to see I wasn't the only one a bit upset by this huge blast with out any warning. Heck I find it rude to receive that much stuff with out warning. oh well guess I'm in the minority again. >thanks >ken >Pierre Savoie wrote: >NOT COOL, DUDE! By posting all these volumes of stuff all on the same day, you blew out both my mail and disk quota on my Internet account here. Can't you dispense this stuff more slowly over several days? I figured it was a routing mistake like he said, and the stuff ended up flooding into Mystara-L and creating several digests that day, all sent out at once. The 1.5 megs Deep Impacted my account which stands at a mere 500 K file-limit, and the system wouldn't let me do anything else until I cleared mail. In general the Almanac stuff would be appreciated if I were actively running some Mystara. I hope it's posted on a Web-page too; that's just as good for me. :-) Pierre Savoie (who subscribes to the "Ah-choo!" theory of why a megalith became a Hollow World...) - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 13:04:43 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta & Lupins On Mon, 18 May 1998, Duncan TKD wrote: >So it is more like the dislike between elves and Dwarves. Yes. Unless you decide otherwise. Actually I find the idea that there should be a specific relationship between certain races a bit silly. (or artificial, at least) It would be more reasonable to look at individual cultures. (ie The relationship between Belayne and Renardy) As there are many cultures of each race, each culture could see other cultures differently. (ofcourse there will be those Belayinish Rakasta who see all Lupins as Renardy scum, but that is racism :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 13:15:47 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons???? On Tue, 19 May 1998, Rob wrote: Which Dragons exist on Mystara? >well, this is from AD+D sources, so lets see... >Crimson Dragon >Red Hawk Dragon >Gold Dragon >Crystalline Dragon >Ruby Dragon >Sapphire Dragon >Blue Dragon >Jade Dragon >Onyx Dragon >White Dragon >Red Dragon >Amber Dragon (called Brown Dragons on Mystara) Green Dragon >Black Dragon >I think its been changed quite a bit from the oD+D stuff - I remember all sorts of funny colours in the Companion and Master sets. I think you got them all there. Except: Night Dragon Sea Dragon One of the articles in Dragon, the one dealing with the ceremony of sublimation, mentiones that Dragons are reincarnated. Sometimes into new and unusual colours. This opens for allowing various breeds into your campaign, but the ones mentioned above are probably the most common. I'm thinking about including a few others. Silver, Bronze(Daly: you say there was one in a D&D set? From the 70s or something?) , brass and possibly copper. I wouldn't be surprised if there are some oriental Dragons on Skothar either. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 13:18:39 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - firearms On Tue, 19 May 1998, John Normand wrote: >how would i go bout useing a firearm in a typical ad&d campain setting like in mystara Im not quite sure what you are asking here. Are you asking for rules, you can find them in the Savage Coast accessories available at TSR's website. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 13:21:20 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons????/half dragons On Tue, 19 May 1998, John Normand wrote: >are there half dragons in mystara????? There has been no mention of it anywhere, which is not too surprising since they were only detailed in an article in Dragon. They were pretty cool though. I think they could easily be fitted into your campaign. It would not be unreasobale if there were a few in Glantri. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 13:47:23 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revised Patera Timeline mml'ers: As you may have noticed from reading through your mailboxes, I have had my last exam this semester today, and I'll be devoting the next month to this mailinglist. Well, maybe not all of it.. Anyway, here it goes: On Mon, 11 May 1998, Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One wrote: >4000 BC- There is no true civilization on Patera. Primitive Pachydermions predominate the main continent of Patera (the area now known as Rajahstan). How did they get here? And why is there life in Patera anyway. (Why not, could be a suitable answer, but..) Has anyone(Andrew or others) had any thoughts on Pachydermion settlements on Mystara? I remember someone mentioning there being a settlement of these people in Thyatis. (In their campaign, ITC? ;) ) Maybe Patera has long been a project of Ordana and Ka. Ordana having placed plantlife and the like, and Ka creating the Pachydermions there. (elephants, dinosaurs..big gray things..) >--- Time gap --- What happens here then? I guess that is still a mystery. Wasn't there a goblin population in here too? How did they get here. Perhaps the Immortals felt that the Rakasta and the Pachydermions needed a common enemy to cooperate? Or are Goblinoid patrons involved. Karaash perhaps? Or Wogar? >Cthuludrew, the Great Old One Great work! :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:08:19 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta & Lupins At 12:25 AM 5/19/98 -0700, you wrote: >On Sat, 16 May 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >>Comparing the two recent articles by Bruce about Lupins and Rakasta I noticed that all Lupins races live in Brun (mainly in the Savage Coast or Ochalea) except the Norwold Malamute that can be found also in Skothar, while Rakastas can be found almost everywhere, especially in Davania. Why this? Maybe because of the more adventurous nature of cats in comparison to dogs? >One big reason is that Rakasta have been around longer. Also, I'd think that Rakasta litters are probably bigger than Lupin litters. >>Another question: what's teh attitude of rakasta towards lupins (and vice-versa)? >>Is it like dwarves and goblins? Alfheim elves and Shadowelves? Glantrians and clerics? >I think it's more like dwarves and elves. They don't really see eye to eye (their attitudes are too different), but they don't necessarily hate one another, and can even get along really well in certain cases. And play some wonderful pranks on one another. This is one of the things I love about the relationship of dwarves and elves in Mystara. There is a rivalry, and a mutual irritation factor, but deep down I think there is love also. Wonderful opportunity for banter! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #333 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 15:28:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #334 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Tuesday, May 19 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 334 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons (was Night Dragons) Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta & Lupins Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta & Lupins Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons (was Night Dragons) Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta & Lupins Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons????/half dragons Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta & Lupins [MYSTARA] - Dragons of Mystara [MYSTARA] - Gareth 4 : Gareth = another Entropic Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons????/half dragons Re: [MYSTARA] - firearms Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons????/half dragons Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons????/half dragons [MYSTARA] - Wild Magic in the Net Almanac... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:11:12 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons (was Night Dragons) At 08:23 AM 5/19/98 +0100, you wrote: >>>One thing I do know is that Crimson Dragons of the Savage Coast >>You mean like Pyre? Where are they discussed? >Crimson dragons and Red Hawk dragons are described in the downloadable SC Monstrous Compendium (with many other cool monsters - yknow the black tar thing that killed Tasha Yar in Star Trek? Thats a twisted aranea thing called a Yeshom...). Theres quite a bit on dragons scattered over the SC stuff - i think theres some stuff in the Orcs Head gaz as well. Oh yeah! I downloaded it last year but have not really looked at it much since then! Is there any way (besides fiddling) to get the pictures to print with the text? Currently I have everything on seperate pages... There was that cool yeshom...and the wyrmling thingy...Jabba the Wyrmling... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:30:24 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta & Lupins At 01:04 PM 5/19/98 +0200, you wrote: >On Mon, 18 May 1998, Duncan TKD wrote: >>So it is more like the dislike between elves and Dwarves. >Yes. Unless you decide otherwise. >Actually I find the idea that there should be a specific relationship between certain races a bit silly. (or artificial, at least) It would be more reasonable to look at individual cultures. (ie The relationship between Belayne and Renardy) As there are many cultures of each race, each culture could see other cultures differently. It is one of the defining elements of fantasy that racial characteristics work. Orcs are mean, goblins are stupid, elves are graceful, dwarves are stubborn. Humans are really the only creatures who do not have definite racial traits. This is because humans are at a point of decision. There can be great honor, great stubborness, great evil, and great good from a given human. He is the unpredictable factor. He is the one who makes a choice that decides all fates. SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!! This theme can be seen in many fantasy stories. Tolkien of course is the one who would be remembered best. The elves, dwarves, hobbits, and high men (as seperate from common men) all exhibit certain traits that define them. In the end, the common men are left to govern their lives as men. The Prydain Cycle (by Lloyd Alexander) follows a similar course. All of the magical things leave for the summer country where they need never grow old and die. The young mortal hero, offered a place among them, proves his nobility by staying to help the race of man as it seeks to decide its own path. The Belgariad (by David Eddings) is a little more difficult to see. Each nation of humans has its own particular trait. Arends are airheaded, Chereks are barbaric, Drasnians are sneaky, Tolnedrans are greedy. The hero, Garion, is not of any of these races. He is the hero who is free to make the decision in the end. Not that any of this means you have to go with racial characteristics. When you say they are unrealistic, well yeah you're right. This is fantasy though, and that is one of the defining elements of fantasy. Whereas undoubtedly Alphatians believe all Thyatians are stupid barbarians and Thyatians believe all Alphatians are evil powermongers, and we know both of these are stereotypes. The individual human races do not ascribe to specific traits whereas the nonhuman races do. The great strength of humans is that they can choose to follow their own way, apart from any national/racial boundary. Elves, dwarves and halflings are more elemental. Dwarves are tied to the earth and exhibit traits that are considered more earthy and mountainous (stubborn, slow). Elves are tied to the woodlands and exhibit traits that are appropriate (magical, quick, flighty). Halflings belong to the hills and farmlands and enjoy their comforts. I see it as completely appropriate that rakasta and lupin exhibit cat and dog traits. One of these traits is that they are naturally annoyed with each other. Rakasta don't tend to run up trees though, so the Lupin have learned not to press the issue too violently. ;) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 15:00:51 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta & Lupins On Tue, 19 May 1998, Daly wrote: >At 01:04 PM 5/19/98 +0200, you wrote: >>On Mon, 18 May 1998, Duncan TKD wrote: >>>So it is more like the dislike between elves and Dwarves. >>Yes. Unless you decide otherwise. >>Actually I find the idea that there should be a specific relationship between certain races a bit silly. (or artificial, at least) It would be more reasonable to look at individual cultures. (ie The relationship between Belayne and Renardy) As there are many cultures of each race, each culture could see other cultures differently. >It is one of the defining elements of fantasy that racial characteristics work. Orcs are mean, goblins are stupid, elves are graceful, dwarves are stubborn. >Humans are really the only creatures who do not have definite racial traits. This is because humans are at a point of decision. There can be great honor, great stubborness, great evil, and great good from a given human. He is the unpredictable factor. He is the one who makes a choice that decides all fates. I recognize this themer from many of the books you mention. However I thinki this is more appropriate in fiction than in a RPG Setting. After all, the games allow us to see more points of view. This seems to be the case especially in Mystara where you have the evil Shadowelves who arent all that evil, the evil Humanoids who arent that bad etc. IMO the racial traits first used by Tolkien (AFAIK) have been used in so many bad rip-offs that I now look upon them as annoying cliches, rather than remembering the fascinating stories from Lord of the Rings where many of these originate. (I know Tolkien borrowed stuff from various sources) A friend of mine tried to search the web for paintings of Dwarves who didn't have big noses, he gave up. Similarily, how many Dwarves use battleaxes? How many elves use bows? This isn't even common weapons in Tolkien, though central characters used them. Ofcourse I'm not going to dictate other peoples campaigns, but in my gaming group, we are now trying to move away from these things. Not every dwarf is greedy and not every elf is a master archer. I'd like to keep this example: >The Belgariad (by David Eddings) is a little more difficult to see. Each nation of humans has its own particular trait. Arends are airheaded, Chereks are barbaric, Drasnians are sneaky, Tolnedrans are greedy. The hero, Garion, is not of any of these races. He is the hero who is free to make the decision in the end. I love those books, but I dont know if Eddings' world would be my favourite setting for a FRPG. At least not without a few modifications. >Not that any of this means you have to go with racial characteristics. When you say they are unrealistic, well yeah you're right. This is fantasy though, and that is one of the defining elements of fantasy. Whereas undoubtedly Alphatians believe all Thyatians are stupid barbarians and Thyatians believe all Alphatians are evil powermongers, and we know both of these are stereotypes. The individual human races do not ascribe to specific traits whereas the nonhuman races do. Yup. I can accept that things are different in a fantasy world than in the real world. (I mean, why else would I play?) But only if this is fun and creates a more fascinating and rich setting. If it turns everything to stereotypes, its no fun IMO. >The great strength of humans is that they can choose to follow their own way, apart from any national/racial boundary. Elves, dwarves and halflings are more elemental. Dwarves are tied to the earth and exhibit traits that are considered more earthy and mountainous (stubborn, slow). Elves are tied to the woodlands and exhibit traits that are appropriate (magical, quick, flighty). Halflings belong to the hills and farmlands and enjoy their comforts. I agree to these general concepts. They are like that IMC aswell. However when you are left with narrow categories in which to place your character, you ruin a lot of the fun. (You in the general sense, no offence to you Daly :) >I see it as completely appropriate that rakasta and lupin exhibit cat and dog traits. One of these traits is that they are naturally annoyed with each other. Rakasta don't tend to run up trees though, so the Lupin have learned not to press the issue too violently. >;) Sure, this can be fun. However, it would also be interesting to discover a Lubin culture who was on very friendly terms with Rakasta. Or a culture of seafaring Dwarves..... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 15:03:59 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons (was Night Dragons) On Tue, 19 May 1998, Daly wrote: On the Savage Coast stuff: >Oh yeah! I downloaded it last year but have not really looked at it much since then! >Is there any way (besides fiddling) to get the pictures to print with the text? Currently I have everything on seperate pages... Yeah, I would like to know that too :) >There was that cool yeshom...and the wyrmling thingy...Jabba the Wyrmling... Hehe, there were a lot of interesting creatures in there. I was fascinated with the Goatmen. 'been thinking about writing something on those.. Håvard, Goat-for-a-head? *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:37:35 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta & Lupins At 03:00 PM 5/19/98 +0200, you wrote: >On Tue, 19 May 1998, Daly wrote: >>At 01:04 PM 5/19/98 +0200, you wrote: >>>On Mon, 18 May 1998, Duncan TKD wrote: II agree to these general concepts. They are like that IMC aswell. However when you are left with narrow categories in which to place your character, you ruin a lot of the fun. (You in the general sense, no offence to you Daly :) That is certainly the danger, creating such a narrow definition so as to make roleplay meaningless. This is one of the things that Mystara in particular moves away from. I think it is up to personal taste, although I can see a marriage of racial traits with playability...just not in terms of strict game rules. Know what I mean? >>I see it as completely appropriate that rakasta and lupin exhibit cat and dog traits. One of these traits is that they are naturally annoyed with each other. Rakasta don't tend to run up trees though, so the Lupin have learned not to press the issue too violently. >>;) >Sure, this can be fun. However, it would also be interesting to discover a Lubin culture who was on very friendly terms with Rakasta. Or a culture of seafaring Dwarves..... Or elves and gnolls who live together beneath the desert... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:43:12 EDT From: LandoTW Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons????/half dragons In a message dated 98-05-19 07:38:54 EDT, you write: << > are there half dragons in mystara????? Well...sorta kinda.... Look at the Orc's Head supliment for the Savage Coast. The Wallara aka Chameleon Men are supposed to be descended from dragons...but I dont think they are what you have in mind. Al *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 15:56:10 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta & Lupins On Tue, 19 May 1998, Daly wrote: >At 03:00 PM 5/19/98 +0200, you wrote: >That is certainly the danger, creating such a narrow definition so as to make roleplay meaningless. This is one of the things that Mystara in particular moves away from. I think it is up to personal taste, although I can see a marriage of racial traits with playability...just not in terms of strict game rules. Know what I mean? Yep, I think basically we agree. The most important thing is ofcourse what works best in each individual gaming group. >>Sure, this can be fun. However, it would also be interesting to discover a Lubin culture who was on very friendly terms with Rakasta. Or a culture of seafaring Dwarves..... >Or elves and gnolls who live together beneath the desert... Yeah, looks like there is one Fantasy setting for us... Forgotten..uhm..no Mystara. :D Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 18:43:21 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of Mystara Wizzard wrote: <> Uhm... according to Bruce's article about dragons.. well, there is no specifical reference to "draconic foreign politic" in it, for it cover dragons' phisiology and social system for the most. Well, anyway, normally dragons tend to act without merging too much with the humans. I'd say they shun them as humans shun bugs.. ;) However, there have been some examples of dragons contacting or merging with humans: Raknaar in GAZ3 is an example and Respek an-Tharpis, draconic earl who takes part in the Ierendi Tournament (from GAZ4 and Joshuan Almanac IIRC), is another. I'd say dragons avoid the humans unless it is extremely necessary to deal with them (see Respek) or they fall in love with them and want to protect them (see Raknaar). There isn't probably a written law that prevents dragons from contacting mortals and interacting with them, but they simply refrain from doing it because they consider mortals, and humans in particular, low beings who are not worthy enough to share the dragons' knowledge. They probably know there are rare individuals who are high above the average (sages, wizards, etc.), but they don't normally look for them: it is these mortals who OTOH search for the dragons' lore.. In Norwold the situation is different: there is a written pact (ref: Dragonlord trilogy.. which i haven't read, damn!) that forbids humans from going into dragons' territory in the Wyrmsteeth mountains IIRC, and also keep dragons from attacking human settlements all around Norwold (though some chaotic wyrms often break the law). As with the dragons' relationship with elves, they probably consider the Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 15:28:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #334 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com elves more important and wise than humans and respect them, probably because have similar origins.. (Eldars, anyone?).. Dragons are individualistic/egotistic creatures, they are made to live in solitude, ruling other lesser creatures, IMHO. A draconic society is extremely rare, and where it exists (Norwold) is extremely loose. Their drives are power, lore, richness and hunger (according to Bruce's article), so they're not that different from humans.. ;) A last thought on Dragons and Dragon Rulers: who do you think worship the dragon rulers, or who do you think the DR give their spells to? Draconic clerics..? IMC i think there can be dragons who wield clerical magic instead of wizard spells: those are clearly devoted to the immortal dragons rather then to wizardry. But might there also be mortal clerics of dragon immortals? And also: can someone please explain me IN DETAIL what is that legend about Eldars being the forefathers of both elves and dragons according to Dragonlord of Mystara trilogy?? <> This was an interesting post, Lars. Please, don't feel ignored. I always try to answer to as many posts as i can, but sometimes i either haven't got an answer (because i ignore the matter -especially if it deals with AD&D) or i haven't really got ideas on the subject, and so i wait for others to give me inspiration. I'm sorry if you, or any of the other listmembers, felt ignored (at least by me). We're many on the list, true, but it can happen sometimes that a letter passes unanswered or unnoticed (it has happened at least once to everyone, i think): call it bad luck, if you want. Don't loose your patience for this. Keep trying and you'll see somebody will give you that damn feedback! Never give up, fellow listmembers, okay? ;) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 19:01:34 CEST From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 4 : Gareth = another Entropic There is basically not much difference between this possiblity and the previous one (ie Gareth = Loki). In both cases it is an Entropic Immortal setting up an alternate identity to wreak as much as possible, both on the Prime and among Immortals. Let's see which Entropics could possibly set up such a scheme, why, how, and what the consequences are for each of them. 4a. Gareth = Thanatos Well, Thanatos is definetely used to such plots. Manipulating mortals or immortals to ultimately wreak chaos and destruction is his way. And he's not beyond impersonating (like impersonating Atz in HWA* to manipulate the SE, or impersonating that Hattian leader to manipulate the Storm Soldiers). Also, he's not beyond mounting big hoaxes to put his fellow Imoortals off tracks (again, the HWA trilogy), thus the Vortex stuff. Since the failure of his plot in HWA, Thanatos certainly can devote himself to new plots, especially since he's now back the Hierarch of Entropy. He has many plots running here and there, slowly growing until they can become useful (a Hattian here, a Nithian there, a Burrower yet somewhere else...), and thus adding a new one in a new region isn't bad at all. 4b. Gareth = Hel Hel has lost a lot of status (Hierach) and power in the WotI. She certainly wants revenge and is setting up new plots. During WotI, she often used the trick of creating new churches based on some lesser heroes, gaining priests and followers that were powering her, yet believed in a very different theory. She found that useful in some cases, as these dedicated followers would sometimes do tasks her regular followers wouldn't, though this has never been too successful in her attempts so far (ie, those churches were either short lived, or of minor use). This time, she added a new twist to it: she created a new immortal altogether, maybe basing its philosophy on some of those heroes she usurped the id some time ago. By adding some weird elements (the Vortex claim) and carefully bringing back from her realm a dead child on the DoD, she was successful in creating a new faith just like she was trying for so many years. How she will use it remains to be seen (any ideas?) but it bodes ill for those who countered her during WotI, for sure (ie, the PCs, Benekander, and others). As an additional complication, Sitara might be the (evil) reincarnation of some past distant figure of Sind that Hel brought back to lead this church. Why would Hel start her alternate faith in Sind, where she already has incarnations? Well, Gareth doesn't hit on her true following as much as he does on Ixion's (and others'). Besides, the fact that it worked out so well in Sind is maybe just luck; she has started many petty churches just about everywhere, it's just coincidence that this one worked out better. 4c. Gareth = Atzanteotl Good old Atz is always present when there is mischief to do. However, I think Atz is already quite busy with his numerous plots running wild everywhere, and he's a bit too neurotic and impetuous IMO to come up with such a plan. I prefer Loki over him. Besides, many humanoids worship him, and Gareth's faith has spread into some orc tribes in the Black Mountains. Atz is known for letting his followers kill each other for his glory, but subverting his own followers? 4d. Gareth = Masauwu Though never mentioned before, this association is worth mentioning IMO. Masauwu is a lesser but important immortal of Entropy whose goal is to find new recruits for his sphere. So far, it was his only attribute; but diversification is always possible. By setting up a new id and a new faith, he creates favorable conditions for his prime goal. 4e. Gareth = another Entropic wishing to diversify Some other Entropics, which are generally held subservient to their sponsors, might have gained in power and be willing to break their chains a bit. Setting up new followings is a good means of achieving this. If they want to keep that hidden from their sponsor, creating a faith under a new system of values might work. Especially if they want to erode their sponsor's base. A sponsoree of Loki, maybe? That would work especially well since they are probably themselves champions of mischief, and what better than beat Loki himself? Anyone knows of an Immortal sponsored by Loki? Other Immortals that may work: Danel Tigerstripes, ... 4f. Gareth = some neurotic evil entropic These are definetely bad choices, as they don't have the patience nor the brains to set up such plots. Immortals in this category include Orcus, Alphaks, Demogorgon... 4g. Gareth = yet another entropic There are few left, but let's see. Nyx: I don't see her doing that. Her interests are darkness and undead, and I can't see how this can be related. And she's not the knid of entropic to set up plots miles away from her true goals just to win (better Loki or Thanatos or Hel in that role). Talitha: Hmm, what's her field already? Is it revenge? If anyone can remind me what's her goal maybe I could come up with something. Anyway, those lesser known entropics sometimes can be up to something when no one is expecting them... Other: Did I forget some nasty bad guy? When playing on the Gareth = an evil immortal paradigmn, I prefer to have him be Loki, as it's the one who works best in that role. However, individual DMs may have other arch-enemies for their PCs in their campaign (I remember some have Hel being heavily infiltrated everywhere esp. in the DDC, for example; I'm sure some have Thanatos), in which case they can easily assign their favorite big bad guy as the one masquerading as Gareth, in yet another plot for these damn PCs! _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Almanac page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 19:17:46 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons????/half dragons At 13.21 19/05/98 +0200, Haavard wrote: >On Tue, 19 May 1998, John Normand wrote: >>are there half dragons in mystara????? >There has been no mention of it anywhere, which is not too surprising since they were only detailed in an article in Dragon. They were pretty cool though. I think they could easily be fitted into your campaign. *grinning with a shadow smile* well well well, guys... do you see any problems in introducing half dragons in Mystara? For i think there ARE half-dragons, somewhere, hidden and ready to show their colors... any problems with this? And to tell you the truth, when you said Knight Dragon you made the exact definition of this breed... the same one I use... the same one Mystara will hear in the future... *being even more cryptic, he disappears..* DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:52:00 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - firearms >how would i go about using a firearm in a typical ad&d campain setting like in mystara? If you're in a generic Campaign, Roger Moore Suggests that you use a primitive Hand Match, like the Hand Match Pistol, and HM Arquebus, for Mystara if you were in Cimmaron, or got your hands on an S&W, then it would be a Wheel Lock Firearm. BTW, for the Almanac Writer, after a week of discussion on the use of firearms, you decided on giving all of Mystara, 'The Greyhawk Effect.' What the Greyhawk Effect is that Gunpowder or Smokepowder, Magical or Mundane, doesn't work in a certain area. if You decided on giving the rest of Mystara that effect, then i'm going to have to write to Ambreville himself, Mr. Bruce Heard for an Official Canon Statement, since i've already read Dragon 199's article by Bruce Heard himself called 'Ready, Aim, Fire!' of the Known World Grimoire. Thanx for bearing with me. I take life with a grain of salt...a slice of lemon, and a shot tequila. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:55:40 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons????/half dragons >are there half dragons in mystara????? only if you are using the Council of Wyrms, as a Campaign Expansion. Would Certain Shapeshifting Taltos count as Half-Dragon? I take life with a grain of salt...a slice of lemon, and a shot tequila. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 14:40:29 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of Mystara At 06:43 PM 5/19/98 +0200, you wrote: >Wizzard wrote: ><E.g. in WotI (IMC) the Great One forbode the dragons to participate in humanoid quarrels. (Dragonlance-idea background) But the three immortals just think of their kind (good,neutral,evil) and each wants to further just his cause, his power, his motives. >Dragons are far superior to humanoids in age/wisdom/knowledge and might. So what are the personal motives to participate in human struggle. Why take the risk of being killed and the like.>> >Uhm... according to Bruce's article about dragons.. well, there is no specifical reference to "draconic foreign politic" in it, for it cover dragons' phisiology and social system for the most. Well, anyway, normally dragons tend to act without merging too much with the humans. I'd say they shun them as humans shun bugs.. ;) I seem to recall very specific details on draconic politics...Oh wait! You are saying "foreign politics"...you mean like draconic relations with humans... I like your descriptions by the way..."bugs"! >In Norwold the situation is different: there is a written pact (ref: Dragonlord trilogy.. which i haven't read, damn!) that forbids humans from going into dragons' territory in the Wyrmsteeth mountains IIRC, and also keep dragons from attacking human settlements all around Norwold (though some chaotic wyrms often break the law). I prefer the Norwold dragons from before those novels. They are leaner and meaner. The Lord of the Wyrmsteeth sends his people ranging out far and wide so as to disguise numbers. He is a cunning old Wyrm...I could see him using sneaky means to influence human politics to his ends... >As with the dragons' relationship with elves, they probably consider the elves more important and wise than humans and respect them, probably because have similar origins.. (Eldars, anyone?).. I grudgingly liked the Eldar...but they are dead imc. Probably from spending too much time around dragons...;) >Dragons are individualistic/egotistic creatures, they are made to live in solitude, ruling other lesser creatures, IMHO. A draconic society is extremely rare, and where it exists (Norwold) is extremely loose. Their drives are power, lore, richness and hunger (according to Bruce's article), so they're not that different from humans.. ;) Loose as a whole, but the specific domination hierarchies can be quite tight. >A last thought on Dragons and Dragon Rulers: who do you think worship the dragon rulers, or who do you think the DR give their spells to? Draconic clerics..? IMC i think there can be dragons who wield clerical magic instead of wizard spells: those are clearly devoted to the immortal dragons rather then to wizardry. But might there also be mortal clerics of dragon immortals? You mean like human clerics? I would agree...perhaps under assumed names... >And also: can someone please explain me IN DETAIL what is that legend about Eldars being the forefathers of both elves and dragons according to Dragonlord of Mystara trilogy?? Did you read the trilogy? Cause that is the only place it is from. I prefer dragons and draeden being related and both preceding the Immortals. Just like the Old Immortals set! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:44:02 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons????/half dragons >From: LandoTW >Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:43:12 EDT >To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons????/half dragons Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >In a message dated 98-05-19 07:38:54 EDT, you write: ><< > are there half dragons in mystara????? >Well...sorta kinda.... >Look at the Orc's Head supliment for the Savage Coast. The Wallara aka Chameleon Men are supposed to be descended from dragons...but I dont think they are what you have in mind. They were sort of Devolved by the Wizards of Herath for seeing through their disguises, The Great One took offense of what Herath did to his children, and decide to curse their land, thus came the Dragonfall Myth that's popular in the Savage Coast. I take life with a grain of salt...a slice of lemon, and a shot tequila. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 19:32:27 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Wild Magic in the Net Almanac... COOL! Just got as far as the Harald/Terari/Reporters interview in the Almanac... wild mages at the Alfheim magic points... most excellent. Whoever put that in - I salute you, sir/madam... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #334 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, May 20 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 335 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Missing entry for Atruaghin Re: [MYSTARA] - firearms Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons????/half dragons Re: [MYSTARA] - firearms [MYSTARA] - The Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons???? Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 4 : Gareth = another Entropic [MYSTARA] - Activism for Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaraspace Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals [MYSTARA] - New NPC Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 4 : Gareth = another Entropic ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 15:23:17 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Missing entry for Atruaghin This is Andrew's entry for Atruaghin that somehow vanished during cut&paste operations, it should be added between Aengmor and the Broken Lands. Atruaghin Clans (Territories of) Location: Along southern shore, west of Darokin and the Five Shires. Area: 46,380 sq. mi. (104,355 km2), with 19,172 sq. mi. (43,137 km2) on the plateau itself. Population: 230,000 humans. (On the plateau: Bear Clan: 45,000; Elk Clan: 30,000; Horse Clan: 70,000. In the lowlands: Tiger Clan: 60,000; Turtle Clan: 25,000. ) Languages: Atruaghin, although each clan has its own dialect. Coinage: Coinage is uncommon, as most use barter for goods. The few coins that do exist are called Cloud (5 sp) and Land (cp). Taxes: None. Government Type: Numerous independent tribes, each led by a chief and/or shaman, loosely collected into larger clans. Industries: Trapping, fur production, leather production (especially Horse and Turtle clans), pottery and woven goods (Bear Clan), woodworking (Turtle Clan). The Tiger Clan is known for its raids into Darokin. Important Figures: Powakuan Sleeps-With-Open Eyes (Bear Clan chief, human, male, F10), Tulabal Shadowfall (Elk Clan Chief, human, female, F4/T13), Hovar Duck Watcher (Elk Clan shaman, human, male, Pr14 of Atruaghin), Eyela Moonstalker (Horse Clan chieftainess, human, female, F10), Naravipa Dagger Tooth (Tiger Clan chief, human, male, F17), Eelsha Spider's Kiss (Tiger Clan cleric, human, female, Pr10 of Atzanteotl), Talinguk Rolls-His- Canoe (Turtle Clan chief, human, male, T13). Flora and Fauna: Horses, buffalo, birds of prey and many types of snakes can be found atop the large plateau. Down in the jungle below, great cats are often encountered, as are other typical jungle beasts. There is even rumor of a huge green dragon lairing somewhere in the region. Further Reading: GAZ 14 - The Atruaghin Clans, AC1010 - Poor Wizard's Almanac to AC1012 - Poor Wizard's Almanac 3, and Joshuan's Almanac. Description: by Ryuk-uk Tshaa It is with grave misgivings that I submit to you this chronicle of the way of life of the Atruaghin peoples. The study of human cultures, tribal though they may be, is not my field of scholarly interest. Even were it so, I fear that to attempt to condense the cultures of an entire people, particularly one so wonderfully diverse as those of the Atruaghin clans, into a few paragraphs, is a tragedy. For a more comprehensive treatment of these folk, however, I refer you to the writings of my colleague, Hoo-ti Ruk, who has done extensive ethnographies of the Atruaghin people. [Attempts to contact the above mentioned Hsiao were unsuccessful. He was last seen mounting an expedition to Davania in 1013 AC. Ed.]. The Land The predominant feature among the lands of the Atruaghin people is the great Atruaghin plateau. An immense natural wonder, rivaled in stature only by the Adri Varma plateau to the northwest of Glantri. Such is the majesty of this plateau that the Children claim Atruaghin himself raised the plateau in ancient times, using his powerful magics. It is atop this plateau that the majority of the Atruaghin peoples live. To the northwest, where the plateau dips downwards, live the peoples of the Horse clan, on a combination of grassy plains and soil rich lake regions. To their east live the Bear clan, in large pueblo cities built in the side of the plateau. Bear clan farms line the upper ridge, catching the rains that blow northwards from the Sea of Dread. South of the Bear clan, in thick forests, live the tribes of the Elk clan. Below the plateau, to the east, live the deadly tribes of the Tiger clan, in their thick jungles. On the lands south of the plateau, along the shores of the Sea of Dread, live the Turtle clan, plying the seas in their canoes. The People Outland scholars have long divided the Children of Atruaghin (as they often refer to themselves) into five major cultural traditions- the Bear, Elk, Horse, Tiger, and Turtle clans- though such distinctions are broad generalizations that do not do these people justice. In any event, the Children themselves do not use such terms to identify themselves, and regard outlanders who do with amusement. The Children are largely tribal in nature, though the extent of their social organization varies between cultural groups. Individual tribes of the Turtle and Elk clans, for instance, primarily consist of small bands of extended families, that seasonally come together as a tribe. Leadership among them is very informal, and it is only in instances of great necessity (such as war) that the clan acknowledges one overall chieftain. Such a system suits these peoples well, as their hunter/gatherer lifestyle does not accommodate itself to more than a semi-sedentary means of living. [They move around a lot. Ed.] The Tiger and Bear clans, on the other hand, have very complex social structures. These people live sedentary lifestyles, building large cities and relying heavily on farming as their means of subsistence. They are very much like modern nations, with very formal leadership - the Tiger clan in particular denotes itself as a kingdom (a fact which seems to have slipped by outlander scholars, so keen on presenting them as 'primitive barbarians'). Both nations also have organized religions as well, as opposed to the largely shamanic ways of the Elk and Turtle clans. It is interesting to note that, whereas the Bear clan priests complement the role of the chieftain, the Tiger clan priests seem to wield as much (if not more) power among those people than the monarchy. The peoples of the Horse clan deserve special mention, as they have perhaps been most wronged by outland scholars. My observations show that there are really two separate, but closely connected, groups that make up these people. There are the plains tribes, which roam the steppes on their horses year round, and the village tribes, which live a largely agricultural lifestyle around the lakes on the northern edge of the plateau. Both groups interact closely, which undoubtedly has led less observant scholars to assume they were one and the same. As to their religious activities, the village people have more formal priestly organizations, while the plains folk rely predominantly on shamans. Additionally, I must note here that the Horse clans do in fact have spoken languages. Many tribal dialects, in fact. They do not use their spoken language with outsiders, however, only amongst their own tribes. In dealings with others, they use the sign language they have become renowned for. The nonsense about the plains folk not using bows in hunting is untrue as well. They use the bow and arrow most often in hunts; it is only when performing acts of bravery to improve their status, or impress outsiders, that they attempt to take down buffalo with close quarter weapons. Recent History The Atruaghin region was largely unaffected by the Great War years ago, primarily due to the sheer logistic improbability of an invading force being able to take and hold the plateau. A group of Alphatian mages, fleeing the sinking of their continent, arrived on the plateau and subjugated the various tribes of the Bear clan, in 1010 AC. They were driven off by the Children of Atruaghin by the following year, though the World Elevator that connected them to Darokin was destroyed. Recently, maps of trails through the interior of the plateau have allowed Darokinian merchants to resume trade with the Children. I should note here that, while visiting the Bear clan, my keen vision espied activity at the base of the plateau where the World Elevator once conducted commerce. I can only presume that Darokinian merchants are perhaps seeking to repair the enormous contraption. What effects this might have amongst the merchant houses of the Republic are certainly beyond my ability to comment on. Last year, Eelsha Spider's Kiss was confirmed as the Tiger Clan high priestess, following the death of the former high priest. In the subsequent months, she has apparently utilized her influence in her position to spur the Tiger clan to vicious raids on Turtle clan tribes and nearby Darokinian towns in the Tenobar region. Don't Miss I noted during my brief stay among Bear clan cities a surprising degree of outland clothing (notably Sindhi and Darokinian) and trade goods. It would appear that Old World merchants are beginning to make great inroads into this previously isolated region of the world. I am unsure if that is a good thing or not. Additionally, while asking about the Bear clan manner of building cities on the side of the plateau, I was mildly surprised to learn that there were legends of a time when the Bear clan lived on the ground below the plateau. Bear clan priests tell of large cities, thriving centers of commerce between Bear clan peoples and those of other peoples in the surrounding areas (I suspect these people must be early settlers of the Darokin region and perhaps Tiger clan people, in the days before the split between clans). There was a disaster of some kind that destroyed the cities and drove the survivors to return to their home on the plateau, though what sort of disaster is unclear. The tales speak of wars and invasions, from Tiger clan peoples or some other, outside force. It would be interesting to see whether any record of these cities may exist in ancient Darokinian scrolls, or even if remnants of these cities still remain below. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 21:32:39 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - firearms >how would i go bout useing a firearm in a typical ad&d campain setting like in mystara Guns guns guns!!!!! (Clarence Boddicker out of robocop) Hmm - what exactly do you mean? You want rules? Advice on their use? How to introduce them where none existed before? Its an exhaustive topic... send us another post to clarify please... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 21:34:44 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons????/half dragons >are there half dragons in mystara????? Are we talking Council of Wyrms here? Half dragons... not in that sense. But there are minor dragon kin - wallaras (chameleon men - a bit like Aussie Aborigine lizard men that can change colours (!)), drakes (shapeshifting minor dragons - mandrakes (human imitators), woodrakes(elf imitators) and colddrakes (dwarf imitators). Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 18:38:46 EDT From: Magesmiley Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - firearms In a message dated 98-05-19 03:58:07 EDT, you write: << how would i go bout useing a firearm in a typical ad&d campain setting like in mystara >> Best source for firearms would probably be the Red Steel boxed set if you can get a copy of it. - -Mage *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 19:27:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac Well, I'm done. Read through the whole thing in two days, and formatted it, too. Further proof that I do not, in fact, have anything resembling a life. Anyway, having gone over all the events of the year, I am absolutely blown away by the things you people came up with. TSR could not have done better had they given it everything they had. I must admit that Ludwig von Hendriks' new status among the Glantrians will make Alexius' job a bit tougher, but nobody said Immortality was easy to achieve. I especially liked that touch with the hobgoblin who knows Ludwig's secret. Useful indeed. The Rockhome invasion, the Denagoth invasion, the Shadow Elves invasion...and the Ylaruam/demon invasion...so much for peace and quiet in Mystara. :-) I think Karameikos, Ierendi, Minrothad and the Shires were the only nations that didn't have full-blown wars going on. More proof that true civilization rests along the coast of the Sea of Dread. And of course, there's Bargle...he's still popping up in various places to annoy people. Alexius is going to get him too, after he gets Ludwig. And for those who don't think Alexius is capable of bringing these two renegades to justice...his Immortal patron is Diulanna, Patroness of Will. Alexius is a stubborn kind of guy. :-) Anyway, a triumphant production all around. The Hollow World Atlas will be welcomed when you add it to the final version; I'd like to see what's happening in Nithia and Milenia. Except for the Schattenalfen, there was hardly any mention of the Hollow World in the Events. Full marks for creativity, and if TSR gets wind of this, they'll probably hire the bunch of you to run the new Mystaran product lines they'll be coming out with in a couple of years. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 19:58:38 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac << I think Karameikos, Ierendi, Minrothad and the Shires were the only nations that didn't have full-blown wars going on. >> ....and the only nations that didn't lose all of their leaders......... ;) - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 19:56:31 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Derek Harmon wrote: >I think too many clerics get curing spells. It's almost a rite of passage.. how many Immortals are really interested in Healing? I give you Healing Immortals.. and maybe Immortals of War and Peace, Medicine, Health.. perhaps even Life and Death. But not many.. I think all AD&D clerics have access to healing however, I believe that Mystaran clerics would be considered specialty priests. At least that's the idea I got from WotI. >However, firm belief in one's alignment, which was the entire basis for the D&D Cleric before the innovations of Immortals.. used to be enough for curing spells (and the rest). Now that we have Immortals, can we just discard that faithful old cleric? Discarded him long ago. About the time I heard of the specialty priests in the Realms ;) >It does look rather depressing for the survival of the Church of Karameikos though, I cannot see it adopting Halav, Petra and Zirchev.. absolutely not in the light the Traladarans do. As Immortals, those Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:04:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #335 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com >three are unlikely to deal with the "pantheon" already ascribed to the CoK. The Traladaran beliefs just don't fit well with the CoK doctrine, and I forsee a decline in CoK's parishoners. Hmm. I was thinking it was the Church of Traladara that was going to be in trouble. Halav and company's integration into the Church of Karameikos is absolutely imperative if that church is going to appeal to the Traladarans. I'm sure the church leaders realize that. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 20:01:24 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Derek Harmon wrote: >As for culture clash, there are unmapped villages lining the trade route between Ylaruam and the Jarldoms. As one gradually travels around, the Northlandic influences will become stronger and the Ylari influences will start to fade. This was one of my problems. Just how do you have villages with a cold culture and a desert culture integrated? I see what you're saying about the mountains but according to Ylaruam's map, the towns of Castellan in the Norther Reaches and Cinsa-Men-Noo in Ylaruam should have trade between them that leads to a merging of some of their cultures. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 20:04:57 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Kaviyd wrote: >The stakes are quite high -- if the Philosophy/Alignment movement becomes dominant, then the relations among the varius Immortals will change radically, as they are currently based on Sphere and other interests more than alignment. This just reminds me of those alignment languages that I never did like either. I would allow a cleric based on philosophy but he wouldn't recieve spells. Unless the Old Ones are based solely on alignment and grant spells to those of that alignment. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 20:06:22 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >I believe that there are large tribes of kobolds and gnolls on the border of Ylaruam and Northern Reaches (the Hardangers). This might explain why there isn't much cultural influence. But there would be some and I just can't see how to merge the two at the moment. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 20:10:30 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Ezio Pignatelli wrote: >I would disagree. If you include "Call of the Heroes" in your canon setting, then you have to explain why the Church of karameikos is simply interested in making the Shield of Halav 'disappear' quietly. Would halav be a major immortal of CoK, I would expect them to want the shield, but also to show it proudly. Like that, it seems halav is an immortal of the Church of traladara only. It is possible that, in the future, other imoortals join the CoK though..... Well, that is a sticky problem. But it could be explained that it wasn't the 'official' Church that sought to hide the sheild and just a few hardliners. >IMC very few. What's happening is the opposite (IMC of course :)) ): traladarians are slowly being converted to the worship of the new immortals (only in the town however). On the other hand, the new Traladarian blood is slowly changing the phylosophy of the Church, moving it to be more tolerant towards other beliefs. That's the way I picture it also. But I do think the Traladarians' most famous historical figure would have to be incorporated to grab those worshippers. Of course, it could all just be symbolic without real meaning behind it. 'Yes, Halav is a part of our church but let me tell you about these other immortals' ;> - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 20:12:31 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Correct me if I'm wrong but the Immortals' granted spheres to clerics hasn't been updated for Mystara in AD&D, have they? - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 20:15:30 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons???? Anakin wrote: >greetings, >I have a question (yet again) >what exactly are the breeds of dragon on mystara, I know that there are the basic chromatic dragons (red, white, blue, black and green) as well as gold, all these appear in the OD&D stuff. Then the various crystaline dragons were added later as well as the immortal dragons. Does anyone have an exact list of what dragons do appear on mystara, I also seem to remember the AD&D vresion mentioning other metallics being present on mystara... I have all types of dragons on Mystara. Have only used a few (and mostly chromatics) but I'm not painted into a corner if I want to drag a metallic in for some reason. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 20:19:47 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Kaviyd wrote: >That priest is an example of just how that lack of healing could be replaced by "something potent up his sleeve" -- those fire and other combat spells would allow him to fill the role of party wizard. But if he is the only priest in the party, then your party will have to deal with the same issues that a typical party of pre-Wrath Glantrian adventurers would face -- some source of healing is needed, or the party will not be able to handle very many combats before being forced to retreat to a safe haven. I usually don't run clerics as the portable healing potion. They're along for their faith reasons not to provide healing for others. I've played and DMed in a few games where there was no cleric because that's how most saw the characters. I would probably have certain Immortals grant healing spells which would draw that type of person to them. Others would be more offensive and others defensive. I think giving the Immortals clearer definitions and goals would help decided which are into healing. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 20:21:04 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Kaviyd wrote: >And of course a standard Cleric is totally useless at the "sneaky stuff" that a Thief specializes in. Oh, I don't know. A follower of Loki for example would be pretty sneaky ;> - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 20:23:36 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 4 : Gareth = another Entropic Herve Musseau wrote: >There is basically not much difference between this possiblity and the previous one (ie Gareth = Loki). In both cases it is an Entropic Immortal setting up an alternate identity to wreak as much as possible, both on the Prime and among Immortals. Gareth could be entropic but that doesn't mean he's up to no good. To me, entropy is as neccessary as any other sphere and capable of what humans would call good. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 23:21:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Activism for Mystara No one gave me any indications about what could be done to encourage TSR to revive Mystara. Must I wait for the FAQ file to circulate to find out what to do? Another mailgroup was mentioned which TSR reads and monitors; would it help if I talked there. Mostly this mailgroup has been new background material and content, but I was more interested in the activism aspect and what could be done. Of course, I wouldn't be here if I didn't think the Known World supplements were some of the highest-quality stuff TSR ever made. And as usual, any concept or game setting of high quality in xD&D is stolen for AD&D. - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 00:10:53 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaraspace In a message dated 98-05-18 14:18:42 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: >This is the change from D+D to AD+D planes coming in again (sorry!). I tthink in AD+D the astral does behave more like the ether of D+D... The main difference between D&D and AD&D in the handling of the Astral plane is that in D&D there is no direct connection between the Astral plane and the Prime Material plane -- to get from one to the other you must go through the Ethereal plane. So if you stick to the D&D cosmology, in the dimension of Mystara no "Astral" spells or psionics should work. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 07:58:22 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals At 07:56 PM 5/19/98 -0500, you wrote: >Derek Harmon wrote: >>It does look rather depressing for the survival of the Church of Karameikos though, I cannot see it adopting Halav, Petra and Zirchev.. absolutely not in the light the Traladarans do. As Immortals, those three are unlikely to deal with the "pantheon" already ascribed to the CoK. The Traladaran beliefs just don't fit well with the CoK doctrine, and I forsee a decline in CoK's parishoners. >Hmm. I was thinking it was the Church of Traladara that was going to be in trouble. Halav and company's integration into the Church of Karameikos is absolutely imperative if that church is going to appeal to the Traladarans. I'm sure the church leaders realize that. I'm not sure I agree. I am almost certain that the DotE states that Halav has a rising following in Thyatis. I ruled, imc, that this was due to his acceptance into the Church of Karameikos. You know, sort of like the Romans adopting the Greek gods. Only, there was no name change. There was, however, a slight personality change. I have the CoK portraying Halav and crew in a more "Thyatian" way. This gets on the nerves of more traditional Traladarans. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:09:40 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - New NPC Just a quick note to say another NPC is in the works for everyone to see - this is the one I play in my campaign groupas the NPC party member. SHould have him ready in a day or so. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 21:32:11 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 4 : Gareth = another Entropic >Talitha: Hmm, what's her field already? Is it revenge? If anyone can remind me what's her goal maybe I could come up with something. Anyway, those lesser known entropics sometimes can be up to something when no one is expecting them... Talitha's field is stealing and evil thieves. Which certainly fits, since Gareth is stealing worshippers from other Immortals. Where's Talitha's power base, anyway? >Other: Did I forget some nasty bad guy? Brissard (who is BTW a servant of Talitha). Ranivorus (he already had a hand in corrupting the Nithians, maybe the Sindhis are next on his agenda). Yagrai. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #335 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 15:38:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #336 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Wednesday, May 20 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 336 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaraspace (and RLoft) Re: [MYSTARA] - Activism for Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons???? Re: [MYSTARA] - Site Update!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons???? Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - firearms Re: [MYSTARA] - Wild Magic in the Net Almanac... Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaraspace (and RLoft) [MYSTARA] - Rob's Going out of the RPG Business Fire Sale ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:12:14 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara In a message dated 98-05-19 21:16:56 EDT, you write: << > As for culture clash, there are unmapped villages lining the trade >route between Ylaruam and the Jarldoms. As one gradually travels around, the Northlandic influences will become stronger and the Ylari influences will start to fade. This was one of my problems. Just how do you have villages with a cold culture and a desert culture integrated? I see what you're saying about the mountains but according to Ylaruam's map, the towns of Castellan in the Norther Reaches and Cinsa-Men-Noo in Ylaruam should have trade between them that leads to a merging of some of their cultures. >> Hmm.....I am trying to remember the details and names of the real world example I am thinking of. This being the Germanic Tribes that inherited Rome and its holdings in the middle east. I forget the name of the Emperor and the specific middle eastern cities. IIRC the western roman empire waged a war against these cities when they declared independence. Anyway, what you had was a major case of culture clash and twists on the combining of the two ciltures. Give me a few days and I try to get some specifics. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 17:51:38 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaraspace (and RLoft) Robert Fry wrote: <> So you ruled that DoD (Day of Dread, not to be confused with Domains of Dread, the Ravenloft guide/sourcebook) affected the other spheres and planes, uh? But IIRC the PWA said it only affects Mystara planet.. oh well, who cares: you can do what you want! I even destroyed Mystara once.. (i think i am the only DM who actually did it in his campaign) ;p <> Is Mystaraspace nearer to the Spelljammer Triangle (Greyspace, Krynnspace and Realmspace) or to the Vodoni Empire IYO?.. <> I think the two best locations should be: Karameikos, north of the lake of Threshold (Aston Point commerces logging with Threshold), with a monk of the CoK as Aston, and no elves. Or in Darokin, north of Lake Amsorak, west of Fort Lakeside (i guess that area is particularly unlucky.. especially with meteors..;) -see a certain meteor crash during WotI..). < I also changed it from Aelos to Mystaran prehistory - with a bit of change in the timeline...>> Well, i have no fear of altering my Mystara.. as long as i have countermeasures ready to undo what befell Mystara. For example, CM6 (the Oard adventure) is a good adventure and my players enjoyed it a lot (they were worshipped as gods by the Aelosians.. the God of Warfare, the God of Magic, the God of Communication and the God of Madness.. ;p). However, i thought it hadn't a really strong background to fully involve the players (after all, at those levels -20+ lvl- they could freely ignore the rantings of a sage who appears with his hut.. they could even nuke him for wasting their time!), so i devised a way to incorporate it into my ongoing campaign. To make a long story short, an alien servitor of an otherwordly god used the knowledge of an oard, the last of his species, to build a weapon and he nuked Mystara from his spaceship (where the PCs were to free one of them held prisoner). Then he left but not before throwing the hapless and really demoralized PCs out of the spaceship into Voidspace, to die the most horrible death.. Fortunately, the Immortals had sent omens to a cleric friend of the PCs, First Mate of a flying ship owned by the party wizard, and he left Mystara in time to save the crew and pick the PCs, raising those who had died. Then Benekander appeared (they played CM6 after WotI) and told them that the Immortals were beginning to fade for lack of followers and only Chaos and death would have ruled the Multiverse then.. and this meant Thanatos (who the PCs had offended earlier). The only way to prevent this was to go to Aelos, where the Oards lived, and exterminate that race in order to change the past (no Oards=no weapon that destroyed Mystara=Mystara is back). So they jumped in the Nexus and the adventure began.. <> WotI said that Old Alphatia lies inside the Outer Plane of Energy, Draesten, but originally it was in the Prime (see M1: Into the Maelstrom).. <> Ehe , yes, a trispace where no magic can function.. but it gives rules for using firearms and car crashes in D&D! yuck! ;p >Actually, i never said Old Ones are evil. Nobody really knows what they are, though their intervention in WotI seem to imply they're not evil. IMHO Old Ones live BEYOND the Barrier, and INSIDE the Barrier dwell other creatures imprisoned there by Old Ones or other powerful creatures. The Barrier is a multi-layered dimension in itself, and it is there that, IMC, the Dark Powers and Ravenloft dwell, as well as the "Cthulhu type" powers of Yhog (maybe the DP and these creatures are the same?) and Arik.. etc, etc.. <> Actually, that must have been my site: i am the only one with a Ravenloft-Mystara connection :) This is what i wrote: " True Nature of the Dark Powers Revealed (nearly...) So, that's my reasoning about the thing, but now you could ask: then who are the Dark Powers, those who control the Mists? Are they the Old Ones? A frightening idea, isn't it? But we know that the Old Ones are good guys and that's not the case. So who are the Dark Powers? My hypothesis is that they are somehow trapped inside the Vortex, unable to free themselves and capable to affect the other dimensions and planes only via the mists, transporting other people inside RL (not only evil people, but also innocents and heroes). The Dark Powers and the Old Ones Who placed them there? I suspect the Old Ones did... probably they were powerful enitites, perhaps even Old Ones, that threatened the very fabric of time and space, and so the Old Ones fabricated this dimensional prison of immense proportions to keep them there and to avoid much damage. Think of the Dark Powers as an entity much like the Lovecraftian entities of primeval origin, Azathoth, Nyarlathotep, Cthulhu and the like: that's the idea... The Dark Powers' True Goal What are the Dark Powers trying to do? The frightening idea i have is this: they're trying to swallow the entire universe! Since they cannot escape their prison and since they're not even free to roam Ravenloft materially (well, there is a mysterious figure called Gentleman Caller who brings chaos and mischief in the land, but i see him as a sort of materialization of the Dark Powers, not the DP properly...), their only hope is to drag the whole Prime in the Vortex and to rule it inside there!!" Now, i would change that similarity to Lovecraftian deities for the Dark Powers: they are obviously two different things, as i stated above. And IMC one of my PCs was sent to "Lovecraft Earth" from an emanation of the Elder Ones (the cursed city of Salem's Lot) to bring to Mystara one of their most faithful servants: Joseph Curwen! (see "The Strange Case of Charles Dexter Ward") He is now trying to free the Elder Ones from the Vortex prison.. << Yes, I have the Old Ones Beyond the dem... sorry, DIMENSION of nightmares (lol) as well.. The Nightmare Lands are a sort of neutral ground where the minds of Old Ones and Mortals can touch in a limited fashion...>> Well.. actually the Nightmare Lands from RL lie in the Veil of Sleep (between Deep Ethereal and Border Ethereal), so they're not in the Demiplane of Nightmares, though i think they might be connected (see what i wrote for The Dreaming article by Haavard, either in his or my homepage). I also have my own theory of WHO the Old Ones really are and what's the great scope of the Vortex, but i'll leave it for another day.. If my players ever make it to finish my Ultimate campaign and become Old Ones without passing from the Start, so to speak (without attaining Immortality first), they'll get a big surprise.. ;) <> Indeed! I think a few know that Ixion is a real world legendary figure of the Greek pantheon, though not a very well known one, so it was possible for TSR to use it for Mystara. I didn't know however there was an Ixion in Planescape.. so what is the connection? How do you explain 2 Ixions in your campaign? DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:57:53 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Activism for Mystara At 11:21 PM 5/19/98 -0400, you wrote: >No one gave me any indications about what could be done to encourage TSR to revive Mystara. Must I wait for the FAQ file to circulate to find out what to do? >Another mailgroup was mentioned which TSR reads and monitors; would it help if I talked there. Have you not heard about the SaveMystara project and the Mystaran Writers' project?? They come under the umbrella of the "Mystara Rising" campaign. Sign aboard! Write articles and adventures, critique fellow writers! Let's get some stuff out there quick to revive interest! The following is a little bit of info from the Mystaran Writers' project: Guide Lines Remember that the purpose of this group is to get out as many well-written, interesting adventures to the RPGA as soon as we can. Of course, they should all be set in Mystara and feature something "unique and defining" regarding our beloved setting. I would encourage use of Immortals in ways that gods CANNOT be used in other settings. Also, articles dealing with aspects of Mystara and AD&D gaming with Mystara can be submitted to Polyhedron. My guess is that general subjects (for example the Rakasta and Lupin articles written by Bruce Heard) are more likely to fly than articles that require Mystara as a setting. However, it should be made clear in each article that the particular element being discussed is from the setting of Mystara. You should all first send a mail to each other introducing yourselves, describing a little about yourselves, and listing good times to post. The next thing to do will be to come up with some sort of deadline (I have found once a week works very well) and whomever is posting that week should have something ready and posted by that time. Boy, that was confusing... So for instance, you may decide that "Stephan Dolan" will be the first to post and that the deadline will be 8(est) on Saturdays. Then he should have something posted by 8 this next Saturday (the 25th). After he posts, everyone can read his submission and have their critiques ready. All comments should be posted by the following deadline (8 on the 2nd of May). You will want to come up with a solid schedule so that everyone knows when they are responsible for posting. Some of you have expressed a desire to not post, but to help out with critiques. This is fine if everyone in your group agrees to it. We now have a writers' message board up on Rob Rickard's site. A mail account has been created which we post to and store all messages on. Never post to the MML. As for format, use simple text (cut and paste) as you can never assume what platforms are being used at the other end. Attachment are welcome if they are under 100k As we start you will pick a leader for your group. The leader should keep in touch with me and let me know how things are going. We will help keep you on track as you start out. _________________________________________________________________ Let me know if you are interested in joining! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:11:10 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of Mystara At 14.40 19/05/98 -0400, Daly wrote: >I seem to recall very specific details on draconic politics...Oh wait! You are saying "foreign politics"...you mean like draconic relations with humans... Yep, i meant that... >I grudgingly liked the Eldar...but they are dead imc. Probably from spending too much time around dragons...;) Oh, pleeease Jeff, tell me what's this mystery about Eldar race? >Loose as a whole, but the specific domination hierarchies can be quite tight. Agree, but i tend to see them not really cooperative as other races can be. Dragons use "power" to influence the other dragons (see Bruce's article on lieges and pawns among wyrms), not really free cooperation. So a "nation" of dragons will derive its status from a group of superior dragons whose strength, power and wisdom is acknowledged by all others, who enforce loose rules applicable to all dragons living in a certain region with the "threat of their retaliation" in case anyone disobeys. Obviously, they cannot be everywhere and omniscient, so maybe a few rogue chaotic dragons are able to misbehave and go unnoticed.. for some time.. But any dragon has absolute rulership on his own territory, of course.. >>And also: can someone please explain me IN DETAIL what is that legend about Eldars being the forefathers of both elves and dragons according to Dragonlord of Mystara trilogy?? >Did you read the trilogy? Cause that is the only place it is from. I prefer dragons and draeden being related and both preceding the Immortals. Just like the Old Immortals set! I didn't read the Trilogy, that's why i asked. I really would like to know the story behind the eldar-dragon-elves relationships... DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:49:24 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of Mystara At 06:11 PM 5/20/98 +0200, you wrote: >At 14.40 19/05/98 -0400, Daly wrote: >>I seem to recall very specific details on draconic politics...Oh wait! You are saying "foreign politics"...you mean like draconic relations with humans... >Yep, i meant that... >>I grudgingly liked the Eldar...but they are dead imc. Probably from spending too much time around dragons...;) >Oh, pleeease Jeff, tell me what's this mystery about Eldar race? There is not much...just that the Eldar were created long before any humans and they begat the dragon and elven races. Now there are only a few remaining and they are all in the Wyrmsteeth. IMC they are literally in the Wyrms' teeth... >>Loose as a whole, but the specific domination hierarchies can be quite tight. >Agree, but i tend to see them not really cooperative as other races can be. Dragons use "power" to influence the other dragons (see Bruce's article on lieges and pawns among wyrms), not really free cooperation. So a "nation" of dragons will derive its status from a group of superior dragons whose strength, power and wisdom is acknowledged by all others, who enforce loose rules applicable to all dragons living in a certain region with the "threat of their retaliation" in case anyone disobeys. Obviously, they cannot be everywhere and omniscient, so maybe a few rogue chaotic dragons are able to misbehave and go unnoticed.. for some time.. >But any dragon has absolute rulership on his own territory, of course.. I agree. Of course in normal play, it doesn't really figure in much. Typically the players waltz in, kill the dragons, and never find out about the wonderful politicking... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:56:55 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons???? At 20.15 19/05/98 -0500, you wrote: >Anakin wrote: >>what exactly are the breeds of dragon on mystara, I know that there are the basic chromatic dragons (red, white, blue, >>black and green) as well as gold, all these appear in the OD&D stuff. Then the various crystaline dragons were added later as well as the immortal dragons. Is anybody interested in seeing the birth of a new kind of dragon in Mystara, a unique dragon for that..? Sylicon dragon... i have an idea i could share with you.. right Herve? DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:26:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Site Update!!! Well I'm excited about the Annual but PLEASE! do not post such large amounts of data to the MML, I'm sure I'm not the only one who has a disk quota! By posting this much info not only do i miss all the posts after it but i also tend to get booted from the list because my server returns all the extra mail to Leroy and He don't like getttin all that return mail. I'm excited to sit down after work and read the new Almanac but next time send a URL or FTP for us to grab it off. Thanks alot Steve *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 19:27:24 CEST From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons???? >Is anybody interested in seeing the birth of a new kind of dragon in Mystara, a unique dragon for that..? Sylicon dragon... i have an idea i could share with you.. right Herve? Sure, go ahead ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 19:36:02 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac At 19.27 19/05/98 -0400, Glen Sprigg wrote: Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 15:38:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #336 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com >Well, I'm done. Read through the whole thing in two days, and formatted it, too. Further proof that I do not, in fact, have anything resembling a life. WOW! I'm one of the authors, but I've not read trough all of it (just proofreaded some parts, mainly the timeline, in about 10 days) and I've not formatted it yet. Congratulations. >Anyway, having gone over all the events of the year, I am absolutely blown away by the things you people came up with. TSR could not have done better had they given it everything they had. Thanks :) >The Rockhome invasion, the Denagoth invasion, the Shadow Elves invasion...and the Ylaruam/demon invasion...so much for peace and quiet in Mystara. :-) I think Karameikos, Ierendi, Minrothad and the Shires were the only nations that didn't have full-blown wars going on. More proof that true civilization rests along the coast of the Sea of Dread. What did the editor told us? Ah yes, the Old World should be a peaceful and civilized area... :) >Anyway, a triumphant production all around. The Hollow World Atlas will be welcomed when you add it to the final version; I'd like to see what's happening in Nithia and Milenia. Except for the Schattenalfen, there was hardly any mention of the Hollow World in the Events. We had a little problem with HW. Our correspondant disappeared... no kidding, he truly disappeared. If you see a Klantryan ghost going by the name of Thorf, then don't turn or destroy it, but tell how to reach Gallidox Publishing Co. in Mirros :) >Full marks for creativity, and if TSR gets wind of this, they'll probably hire the bunch of you to run the new Mystaran product lines they'll be coming out with in a couple of years. It wouldn't be a bad idea :) - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 19:24:32 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - firearms At 10.52 19/05/98 PDT, George Valencia wrote: BBTW, for the Almanac Writer, after a week of discussion on the use of firearms, you decided on giving all of Mystara, 'The Greyhawk Effect.' What the Greyhawk Effect is that Gunpowder or Smokepowder, Magical or Mundane, doesn't work in a certain area. if You decided on giving the rest of Mystara that effect, then i'm going to have to write to Ambreville himself, Mr. Bruce Heard for an Official Canon Statement, since i've already read Dragon 199's article by Bruce Heard himself called 'Ready, Aim, Fire!' of the Known World Grimoire. I read that article too (and liked it BTW), but Savage Coast smokpowder works slightly different from standard smokepowder. IIRC the AD&D Savage Coast (or Red Steel) stuff clearly states that SC magical gunpowder doesn't work outside the cursed lands. Anyway I'm not the SC expert (my interests stops in Hule :), so you've better write to the Almanac Editor and SC main author Micheal Roy at . Note: he's not on the MML, though he often reads the digests in the archive. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 19:26:10 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wild Magic in the Net Almanac... At 19.32 19/05/98 +0100, Rob wrote: >COOL! >Just got as far as the Harald/Terari/Reporters interview in the Almanac... wild mages at the Alfheim magic points... most excellent. >Whoever put that in - I salute you, sir/madam... I think it's (again) our beloved editor Micheal Roy . Check also 1014 Almanac for more about it. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:16:03 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara >Derek Harmon wrote: >>As for culture clash, there are unmapped villages lining the trade route between Ylaruam and the Jarldoms. As one gradually travels around, the Northlandic influences will become stronger and the Ylari influences will start to fade. >This was one of my problems. Just how do you have villages with a cold culture and a desert culture integrated? I see what you're saying about the mountains but according to Ylaruam's map, the towns of Castellan in the Norther Reaches and Cinsa-Men-Noo in Ylaruam should have trade between them that leads to a merging of some of their cultures. I believe that what happens is that there a mixture of culture, like a group of North Lander that do worship Al-Kalim, while on the other side are a group of desert men that worship the Northern Dieties. In the RW, Aztecs worshipped Qetsecoatl (i spelled it like it sound, i know its wrong sorry.), who some Archaeologist believe was really a Viking Lord, who was worshipped in the Americas. I take life with a grain of salt...a slice of lemon, and a shot tequila. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:19:59 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals >Kaviyd wrote: >>And of course a standard Cleric is totally useless at the "sneaky stuff" that a Thief specializes in. >Oh, I don't know. A follower of Loki for example would be pretty sneaky >;> how about a follower of Korotiklu, the patron of spiders. ;^)>> ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:22:46 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaraspace (and RLoft) >Robert Fry wrote: ><> >So you ruled that DoD (Day of Dread, not to be confused with Domains of Dread, the Ravenloft guide/sourcebook) affected the other spheres and planes, uh? But IIRC the PWA said it only affects Mystara planet.. oh well, who cares: you can do what you want! I even destroyed Mystara once.. (i think i am the only DM who actually did it in his campaign) ;p *pathetic whimpering* sorry, oh Great DM - G:KoM came into that again (I havnt got the original Glantri Gaz!!!) and in that Vanserie hypothesises that it may affect the entire Prime plane. It didnt effect other planes IOC (in our campaigns?), but the planars still noticed. ><> >Is Mystaraspace nearer to the Spelljammer Triangle (Greyspace, Krynnspace and Realmspace) or to the Vodoni Empire IYO?.. Near the Vodoni Empire - near that shipbuilding Vodoni sphere that begins with "Z"... I dont fancy the Vodoni chances against the Ancient Mighty Empire of Alphatia... after all, the PCs kicked his ass and the party wasnt 1000 36th level mages... :) >Well, i have no fear of altering my Mystara.. as long as i have countermeasures ready to undo what befell Mystara. For example, CM6 (the Oard adventure) is a good adventure and my players enjoyed it a lot (they were worshipped as gods by the Aelosians.. the God of Warfare, the God of Magic, the God of Communication and the God of Madness.. ;p). :) hahaha - IMC there is a bard character, and its a standing joke in the campaign that no matter where he goes everyone has heard of him (a side effect of using the reputation stuff in the Complete Bards Handbook). When running the oard adventure, he became so famous in the first part that the elves still remembered him in the second part... and in the third part his Legend was so powerful that a Hero Spirit of him manifested (and was duly summoned by the party shaman) and helped the real bard in the adventure. Not dissimilar! BTW - how do we know the Old Ones arent evil? For all we know they could be Evil Incarnate, trapped just beyond the borders of reality, waiting for a chance to Rule Again (mou-ha-ha!). Blackballs are supposed to be servants of the Old Ones. And they arent exactly nice, are they? OK - they arent evil. But I wouldnt like to run into one nevertheless... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 15:39:38 -0400 From: Rob Miracle Subject: [MYSTARA] - Rob's Going out of the RPG Business Fire Sale I have the following role playing game items that I wish to make available. This is kind of a going out of business fire sale, since I haven't played an RPG in over two years and I don't see any sessions on the horizon. This will be a bid based sale. The bid will run from Today until June 1, 1998. The minimum increment is $1.00 per item. All prices in USD. Buyer will pay for the shipping of their choice and it will be added to the sale price. Payment is by pre-payment. There are a few rare items in here so, please read it carefully. The initial post is going to all outlets, future updates will be at http://www.mpgn.com/~rwm/rpg-sale.html and rec.games.frp.marketplace. So don't loose this post! Without further ado: Shape codes: LN Like New Minor edge wear or less VG Very good Condition Some edge wear, corners nicked. G Good condition Used, but still in good shape F Fair Marked up, pages loose, etc. BTH Quite Worn Falling apart, torn covers, heavy use Most all items have my name in them. Boxed sets are for the most part whole, but I can't guarantee that so I am marking their condition one level lower than they are. Opening Bid is 50% of MSRP for known prices, best guess if I don't know. System Cond Open Curr Email Dungeons and Dragons Book of Marvelous Magic VG $5.00 Monster & Treasure Assortment G $3.00 The Rogues Gallery G $3.00 Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Manual of the Planes G $6.00 Greyhawk Adventures VG $7.00 Referee's Screen G $3.00 Forgotten Realms Campaign Set G $8.00 Wilderness Survival Guide VG $7.00 Birthright Boxed Set G $15.00 $15.00 chrisb@ Dungeon Master's Design Kit VG $4.00 Adv N2 The Forest Oracle VG $2.00 Adv I2 Tomb of the Lizard King VG $2.00 Adv I4 Oasis of the White Palm VG $2.00 Adv U2 The Sinister Secret of VG $2.00 Salt Marsh Book of Lairs VG $6.00 *** SPECIAL *** Deities and Demigods, 1st Ed. G $75.00 w/ Cthulhu & Melnibonean Mythos, Bound Upside Down I'm really not interested in selling it but I am testing the market. *** SPECIAL *** Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 2nd Ed Players Handbook VG $9.00 Dungeon Master's Guide LN $12.00 Dungeon Master's Guide BTH $2.00 Encyclopedia Magica Vol 1 VG $10.00 Encyclopedia Magica Vol 2 VG $10.00 Tome of Magic G $5.00 The Complete Fighter's Handbook VG $9.00 The Complete Book of Villains LN $9.00 The Complete Druid's Handbook LN $9.00 The Complete Paladin's Handbook VG $9.00 The Complete Book of Elves VG $9.00 The Complete Thief's Handbook VG $9.00 The Complete Psionics Handbook F $3.00 (The book is loose from the binding, other than that, it is VG) The Complete Wizard's Handbook VG $9.00 Book of Artificats LN $10.00 Monster Mythology VG $9.00 Monsterous Compendium (Loose leaf G $15.00 Binder + FG Realms, Spelljammer, and Outerplanes Monsterous Compendium Mystara LN $9.00 Monsterous Compendium Annual Vol 1 LN $9.00 Monsterous Compendium Planescape LN $9.00 The City of Greyhawk Boxed Set VG $9.00 $9.00 chrisb@ Dark Sun Boxed Set G $10.00 Top Secret Boxed Set (Version 2) VG $10.00 (Box is a bit worn, but the insides are like new) Gamma World Rule Book (original version) G $6.00 Amazing Engine System Guide LN $5.00 Bughunters LN $9.00 Dragon Magazine Issue #59 G $1.00 Issue #64 (I think, cover is BTH $1.00 missing. Inside Vol 7, Issue 2 Aug 1982) Issue #66 G $1.00 Issue #67 G $1.00 Issue #68 G $1.00 Issue #72 F $1.00 Issue #85 G $1.00 Issue #91 VG $1.00 Issue #127 VG $1.00 Issue #166 VG $1.00 Issue #200 Spc Collectors Ed. VG $3.00 Weather in the World of Greyhawk G $1.00 (Pull out from a dragon magazine) Citadel by the Sea (adv Oct 83 issue) G $1.00 Best of Dragon Vol 2. G $1.00 Judges Guild D&D Items Winderlands of the Magic Realm F $2.00 (may not be complete) The Unknown Gods F $2.00 Castle Book II G $2.00 The Book of Treasure Maps G $2.00 The Book of Ruins VG $2.00 Portals of Irontooth VG $2.00 Traveller (Classic) Book 0 An Introduction to Traveller VG $2.00 Intro Adv. The Imperial Fringe VG $2.00 Understanding Traveller VG $0.50 Spinward Marches Campaign VG $3.00 The Traveller Adventure G $8.00 Rules Booklet G $5.00 Charts and Tables G $5.00 Tarsus Boxed Set (w/Belt Strike F $3.00 boxed set innards) MegaTraveller Players' Manual G $4.00 Referee's Manual G $4.00 Imperial Encyclopedia G $4.00 Rebellion Sourcebook VG $6.00 Referee's Companion (Copy 1) LN $6.00 Referee's Companion (Copy 2) LN $6.00 KnightFall (Adventure) VG $5.00 Traveller The New Era TNE Rule Book VG $14.00 Referee's Screen VG $2.00 Players Forms VG $2.00 Reformation Coalition Equip Guide VG $10.00 Path of Tears (Star Viking Src Bk) VG $9.00 World Tamer's Handbook VG $7.00 Star Vikings VG $7.00 The Regency Sourcebook VG $10.00 Fire Fusion and Steel VG $8.00 Dangerous Journeys Mythus (rule book) LN $14.00 Challenge Magazine Issue 31 F $1.00 Issue 32 VG $2.00 Issue 33 VG $2.00 Issue 75 LN $2.00 GURPS 3rd Ed Basic Set G $10.00 Creatures of the Night LN $8.00 Fantasy LN $8.00 Horror LN $8.00 Bestiary 2nd Ed VG $7.00 Grimoire LN $8.00 Fantasy Bestiary G $6.00 Magic VG $7.00 Religion LN $8.00 Magic Items LN $8.00 Fantasy GM's Pack LN $6.00 Blank Character Sheets (20% used) F $2.00 Space Opera Vol 1, Vol 2, Ground & Air Equip, Space Marines (Set Sell Only) G $10.00 Aftermath Book 1, Book 2, Book 3, Intro Adv G $10.00 Scenario Pack 1 Into the Ruins (Set Sell Only) Champions (Note, most of these are in very good condition, but I colored the line drawings, thus lowering them to fair condition) Champions BTH $2.00 Champions II F $3.00 Champions III G $5.00 Enemies F $3.00 Enemies II F $3.00 Enemies III F $3.00 Gadgets G $5.00 Champions 3rd Ed F $6.00 Cyberpunk 2.0.2.0 Rule Book VG $12.00 Datascreen VG $3.00 Night City VG $7.00 EuroSource VG $6.00 Solo of Fourtune VG $5.00 Protect & Serve LN $6.00 Corporation Report 2020 Vol 1 LN $6.00 Corporation Report 2020 Vol 2 LN $6.00 Cromebook I LN $6.00 Cromebook II LN $6.00 Maximum Metal LN $6.00 When Gravity Fails Adventure LN $6.00 Night City Stories (Atlas Games) LN $6.00 Chasing the Dragon (Atlas Games) LN $6.00 Interface Magazine Issue 3 Vol 1 LN $2.00 Interface Magazine Issue 4 Vol 1 LN $2.00 CyberGeneration 2027 VG $9.00 Mekton II (R. Talsorian Games) Rule book LN $6.00 I.C.E Arms Law & Claw Law (loose leaf) G $4.00 Future Law & Tech Law VG $8.00 Campaign & Adventure Guidebook for G $1.00 Middle Earth Isengard and the Northern Gondor G $5.00 Shadowrun Hard Back Rule Book LN $15.00 Star Trek: The Role Playing Game Star Trek III Sourcebook Update VG $3.00 ISBN 0-425-06979-6 (Older, no red stripe) Star Trek III Sourcebook Update VG $3.00 ISBN 0-931787-24-6 FASA 700 (W/ Red Stripe) Margin of Profit LN $3.00 The Vanished VG $3.00 Trader Captains and Merchant Princes VG $3.00 The Federation G $4.00 Stardate #1 VG $1.00 Stardate #2 VG $1.00 Misc Star Trek Starfleet Tech Manual VG $8.00 20th Aniv Version Finieous Treasury F $5.00 The Palladium Book of Contemporary G $2.00 Weapons The Silmarillion (J.R.R. Tolkien) G $5.00 Hard Back First American Ed. (Missing Dust cover, map present but loose) Entertainment Weekly Special VG $2.00 Collectors Ed. "Star Trek" Fall 1994 (Star Trek Generations Issue) Magic the Gathering Cards Over 870 Cards various issues VG $35.00 Marvel OverPower Card Game VG $2.00 About 75 Cards, looks like a starter set. SpellFire VG $3.00 3 Starter Boxes (2 1st Ed, 1 2nd Ed) Thanks Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #336 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, May 20 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 337 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaraspace (and RLoft) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons????/half dragons Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 4 : Gareth = another Entropic Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons????/half dragons Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals [MYSTARA] - A thought on Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 4 : Gareth = another Entropic Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaraspace (and RLoft) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:37:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Curtis Subject: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format As a newcomer to D&D after playing AD&D for years, I can't acclaim its simplified rules enough, especially concerning character classes. I originally thought kits were a step forward in AD&D, but their attempt to synthesize classes have turned the already out-of-control multiclassing system into chaos. Personally as a former DM of Forgotten Realms campaigns, it drove me nuts keeping track of multiclass rules and the special benefits/hindrances of charaters like collectors (usually elven fighter/mage/thiefs) and vindicators (dwarf fighter/clerics). Another quip I have with AD&D is its level limit rules. No intelligent being, especially one that lives for hundreds and hundreds of years, really would have something like level limits. Logic dictates that someone whose prime of life is longer will usually have the greater opportunity to advance farther in a chosen profession. By such an assertion, elves would rule the world. I know there are optional rules to exceed level limits, but comparitively few people use them. D&D employed a far more sensible system regarding classes in general and demihuman level limitations. First, there was no such thing as a multiclass (well, shadow elf shamans, but that's about it). Every single class had its own mix of magic, fighting ability, and thievery. Best of all, every class had its own xp scale for advancement. So, for example, instead of having a level 9/10 fighter/mage, you'd have a level 10 elf with only one xp total to keep track of. Another advantage with this single class approach was that human characters had much more flexibility than AD&D affords them without the headache. Humans are basically limited to their one class in AD&D. D&D had many human classes that mixed in aspects of other classes. For instance, the shamani from the Atruaghin Clans Gazetteer utilized cleric, magic-user, and druid spells (NOTE: not able to use every single spell clerics, magic-users, and druids were able to, but they had a selection from each list). Level limitation rules for demihumans are much more reasonable in D&D. Dwarves, elves, halflings, and gnomes are limited in advancement to levels 12, 10, 8, and 8 respectively, but these limitations largely only affected hit points. Each class continued to advance in fighting abilities using attack ranks and typically remained a match to their human counterparts with these additional fighting gains, special saving throws, and racial advantages. Therefore, demihumans continued advancing, just in a different manner than humans. D&D had many other sensible aspects that AD&D has completely lost, such as simple and functional attribute rules . . . Anyway, I'd strongly urge WotI and TSR to bring back D&D rules. A great way to do it would be to add a section to the PHB and DMG that overviewed the basic rules of D&D. Since there's plenty of overlap between AD&D and D&D aspects, the section would not have to be very long, just long enough to explain its key differences, such as character classes, alignments, ability scores, weapon proficieny (as in D&D classes can use whatever's available to their class without penalty), spellcasting, and fighter combat options. For adventures, probably only one or two pages would need to be added to show the D&D equivalent of NPCs found throughout the adventure. Any thoughts? AC _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 22:05:52 +0000 From: wizzard@mail.intcom.de Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of Mystara Daly, DM and myself (Wizzard) wrote: >Dragons are far superior to humanoids in age/wisdom/knowledge and might. So what are the personal motives to participate in human struggle. Why take the risk of being killed and the like.>> ... >However, there have been some examples of dragons contacting or merging with humans: ... >... >I'd say dragons avoid the humans unless it is extremely necessary to deal with them (see Respek) or they fall in love with them and want to protect them (see Raknaar). There isn't probably a written law that prevents dragons from contacting mortals and interacting with them, but they simply refrain from doing it because they consider mortals, and humans in particular, low beings who are not worthy enough to share the dragons' knowledge. Well I love the dragon-background of Dragonlance. Therefore I used some of the material to fuel the depth of Mystaran dragons. They (dragons) also have philosophers, mathematicians, physicians, ... But most of their kind will never "meet" the outside world for they are caught within their "ivory tower". They won´t be involved in the petty strives of these "little human things". They try to live by their own code and it seems to be very strict. >As with the dragons' relationship with elves, they probably consider the elves more important and wise than humans and respect them, probably because have similar origins.. (Eldars, anyone?).. I never thought of this but IMC dragons also view elves with *little* more respect. Perhaps this has also something to do because they have a little longer time to see the world and learn from it. >Dragons are individualistic/egotistic creatures, they are made to live in solitude, ruling other lesser creatures, IMHO. A draconic society is extremely rare, and where it exists (Norwold) is extremely loose. Their drives are power, lore, richness and hunger (according to Bruce's article), so they're not that different from humans.. ;) ... >A last thought on Dragons and Dragon Rulers: who do you think worship the dragon rulers, or who do you think the DR give their spells to? Draconic clerics..? IMC i think there can be dragons who wield clerical magic instead of wizard spells: those are clearly devoted to the immortal dragons rather then to wizardry. But might there also be mortal clerics of dragon immortals? These two points are what I wanted to discuss. We do have three rulers. I don´t know if you think of the material in the old D&D-boxes or if you think of WotI ?? (Are they different??) Although dragons normally live by their code and the words they have from their immortal they are individualistic. Why not break with the code and look why there is this code ?? --> Curiosity, adventure-lust, hot-tempered, rebellious. There are various motives. Furthermore why shouldn´t one of the rulers try to gain an advantage over "the other side" by "drawing humans" into the eternal draconic struggle for supremacy. I think that dragons look at humans as pawns or toys. And they get very angry if this toy proves to be deadly. >And also: can someone please explain me IN DETAIL what is that legend about Eldars being the forefathers of both elves and dragons according to Dragonlord of Mystara trilogy?? This is something I´m also interested in. Please explain it to us. >Don't loose your patience for this. Keep trying and you'll see somebody will give you that damn feedback! Never give up, fellow listmembers, okay? ;) Thanks a lot, DM. Sorry, but this is something I needed for I felt like a fool, writing/translating and posting for nothing cos nobody seemed to care. See(read) ya next week, Wizzard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 17:36:34 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Adam Curtis wrote: >Any thoughts? Very well presented. I can see the benefits of both sides. It would be nice if it was included in the PHB and DMG for AD&D since I love D&D's advancement after leveling out. I think you're right that both sets of rules overlap quite frequently. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 17:39:13 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Daly wrote: >There was, however, a slight personality change. I have the CoK portraying Halav and crew in a more "Thyatian" way. This gets on the nerves of more traditional Traladarans. That's exactly how I would think integration of Halav into CoK would be. Something most Traladarans could flock too but the traditional ones wouldn't be pleased at all. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 17:41:36 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Alex295 wrote: >Hmm.....I am trying to remember the details and names of the real world example I am thinking of. This being the Germanic Tribes that inherited Rome and its holdings in the middle east. I forget the name of the Emperor and the specific middle eastern cities. IIRC the western roman empire waged a war against these cities when they declared independence. I've racked my brains trying for a real world example and can't. It's really a strange situation that I don't think is duplicated in our world. >Anyway, what you had was a major case of culture clash and twists on the combining of the two ciltures. Give me a few days and I try to get some specifics. You have two days to get the information, Mr. Phelps. After that, the department of defense will disavow any knowledge of your actions ;> - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 17:49:22 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara George Valencia wrote: >I believe that what happens is that there a mixture of culture, like a group of North Lander that do worship Al-Kalim, while on the other side are a group of desert men that worship the Northern Dieties. In the RW, Aztecs worshipped Qetsecoatl (i spelled it like it sound, i know its wrong sorry.), who some Archaeologist believe was really a Viking Lord, who was worshipped in the Americas. Interesting. I had no idea was thought to be a Viking lord. I would assume their are other exchanges besides religion (I see Al-kalim's faith spreading better that the Northern Immortals) but that's where I get stumped at. >I take life with a grain of salt...a slice of lemon, and a shot tequila. Almost the way I take it. Only I don't like lemons and I can never find the salt ;D - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 17:51:58 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaraspace (and RLoft) Rob wrote: >BTW - how do we know the Old Ones arent evil? For all we know they could be Evil Incarnate, trapped just beyond the borders of reality, waiting for a chance to Rule Again (mou-ha-ha!). >Blackballs are supposed to be servants of the Old Ones. And they arent exactly nice, are they? OK - they arent evil. But I wouldnt like to run into one nevertheless... They could be so lawful that they seem evil or so chaotic that it looks good. You can never tell with those 'beyond understanding' types ;) - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:51:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara At 05:49 PM 5/20/98 -0500, you wrote: >George Valencia wrote: >>I believe that what happens is that there a mixture of culture, like a group of North Lander that do worship Al-Kalim, while on the other side are a group of desert men that worship the Northern Dieties. In the RW, Aztecs worshipped Qetsecoatl (i spelled it like it sound, i know its wrong sorry.), who some Archaeologist believe was really a Viking Lord, who was worshipped in the Americas. >Interesting. I had no idea was thought to be a Viking lord. I would assume their are other exchanges besides religion (I see Al-kalim's faith spreading better that the Northern Immortals) but that's where I get stumped at. The correct spelling is Quetzacoatl. I never heard about the Viking stuff, either, though. Interesting indeed. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 21:00:08 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals In a message dated 98-05-19 21:10:57 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >I think all AD&D clerics have access to healing however, I believe that MMystaran clerics would be considered specialty priests. At least that's the idea I got from WotI. But if you go by the game mechanics of D&D (vice AD&D), then all of the priests of specific Immortals would be general Clerics with one or two additional special abilities based on the specific Immortal served. Specialty priests as per the "Complete Priest's Handbook" do not seem to fit well into Mystara -- in fact, by treating all spell spheres as equal, they really do not work well anywhere. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 21:00:52 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals In a message dated 98-05-19 21:18:43 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >This just reminds me of those alignment languages that I never did like eeither. I would allow a cleric based on philosophy but he wouldn't recieve spells. Unless the Old Ones are based solely on alignment and grant spells to those of that alignment. "That's the ticket!" as the saying goes. Certainly after the events of WotI the Old Ones just might be receptive to the idea of granting power to clerics on that basis. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 21:01:05 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons????/half dragons In a message dated 98-05-19 07:38:54 EDT, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >There has been no mention of it anywhere, which is not too surprising ssince they were only detailed in an article in Dragon. Actually they were first described in the "Council of Wyrms" boxed set - -- but you would need that article from Dragon magazine if you want your half-dragons to have a human parent, as most Glantrian half-dragons would. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 21:00:48 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara In a message dated 98-05-19 21:16:56 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >This was one of my problems. Just how do you have villages with a cold cculture and a desert culture integrated? I see what you're saying about the mountains but according to Ylaruam's map, the towns of Castellan in the Norther Reaches and Cinsa-Men-Noo in Ylaruam should have trade between them that leads to a merging of some of their cultures. There are places in the real world where Arabs and Vikings did meet historically -- Sicily and the Black Sea area to name two. Of course, the Vikings were well away from their original homes at the time, but they had conquered some nearby areas. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 21:00:58 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 4 : Gareth = another Entropic In a message dated 98-05-19 21:38:33 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >Gareth could be entropic but that doesn't mean he's up to no good. To mme, entropy is as neccessary as any other sphere and capable of what humans would call good. I am not sure about that -- it would seem to me that the ultimate goal of promoting entropy would have to be considered evil on the basis that it it incompatible with the continuation of sentient life. Now "evil" in this context does not necessarily mean "nasty villain" -- Nyx would be a perfect example of an Entropic Immortal who does no "mustache twirling" even when she assumes male form. But if her goal of creating undead in greater numbers and varieties is realized, the result would not be good for the living beings that these undead would inevitably prey upon. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 22:36:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #337 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 21:00:57 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals In a message dated 98-05-19 21:33:33 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >I've >played and DMed in a few games where there was no cleric because that's how most saw the characters. So how did those groups fare in combat situations? Or did some non-clerical types have healing abilities that compensated for the lack of normal healing magic? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 21:01:03 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons????/half dragons In a message dated 98-05-19 04:11:22 EDT, johnfoxx@bellsouth.net writes: >are there half dragons in mystara????? Officially that is uncertain -- but the Progeny in G:KoM could be descendants of half-dragons. I had an ancestor of the von Drachenfels family marry a dragon in my own campaign -- the result was rather surprising, as it apparently eliminated the magical talents of half of the males and caused sterility in half of the females. It provided some very interesting plot hooks for the player character who was a member of that family.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:59:00 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Kaviyd wrote: >But if you go by the game mechanics of D&D (vice AD&D), then all of the priests of specific Immortals would be general Clerics with one or two additional special abilities based on the specific Immortal served. Specialty priests as per the "Complete Priest's Handbook" do not seem to fit well into Mystara -- in fact, by treating all spell spheres as equal, they really do not work well anywhere. If I'm understanding you right... in AD&D no standard cleric would recieve the special abilities only the specialty priests (and that Immortals don't grant access to all spheres) so I think it fits rather well. Check Faiths & Avatars for the Realms to see good examples of specialty priests (Forgotten Realms Adventures also but its OOP). I'm not sure what examples the Complete Priest's Handbook has. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 21:03:54 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Kaviyd wrote: >So how did those groups fare in combat situations? Or did some non-clerical types have healing abilities that compensated for the lack of normal healing magic? Well, healing potions certainly became more important that a + sword ;) The nearest cleric (usually found near a town) became someone very important to the game. It certainly made what ever direction I had planned for them easier to implement since they couldn't PO the nearest cleric. I did have make more potions available than I normally would but it did make them not so quick to enter needless combat situations. They surprised me at times ;) - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 19:04:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: [MYSTARA] - A thought on Old Ones I remember in the beginnings of D&D when there was no gods at all. When clerics where the servants of no beings, just followers of one of the three alignements. Then as people began to make gods within these philosophies... but still there was Good and Evil. Neutrality was for those independants :o) Then with the D&D CM rule set the four elemental planes where brought to life. These planes where the starting idea behind the very first thing that defined the "modern" immortals; the four spheres. With that in hand a great mechanic was built (D&D IM rules set)and finalized with the WoI boxed set. By creating immortals, by making them come from the ranks of mortals, the possibility of playing an immortal character was born. But then, what would goals could have an immortal being? Be the most powerful and influent of all immortals of course. But what after? Well let's, if mortals can become immortals then immortals can become... mmmm... Old Ones (OO)! Whoooo! Ok, the idea was there, but it was meant just as an idea, at least I think. You see, if immortals come from mortals and mortals come from the Prime Plane (PP), then who created the PP? The OO where just meant as an easy answer. Never the OO where to become actively involve in D&D! The only way immortals can have a sign coming from (perhaps) the OO is when a mortal becomes an immortal, then the most powerful of his sphere and decide to begin from scatch again! Take a look at the hierarches in the WoI and you'll see that they've never that kind of silly thing! And with all their powers they don't know jack about the OO. In fact I think that most of them just don't care; to busy with there own schems. So don't tell me that a mortal could have interaction with an OO or that a OO would put a mortal in is schems. That's if he has one! Therefore I do have my vision of the OO, one wich put them has scientifics doing an interesting experience where immortals are a kind of lowlife feeding on, I don't know, bacterias wich represent mortals... The scientifics then select exceptionnal individuals for a greater experience. But in no way they will mess with the fragile balance of things in their lab. So I conclude with this last tought... I don't think that trying to figure out what are the OO is a good thing. Figuring out that gods where immortals was a good thing, many things developped for the mortals, who are supposed to be the center of a D&D campain. Will defining the OO change something for the mortals? The answer is and should stay no. Stop looking at the stars, there's so many things still to discover on Mystara itself. Don't worry, the PP is big enough to hold all settings and, if not, there's still planes or dimensions! _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 21:15:13 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 4 : Gareth = another Entropic Kaviyd wrote: >I am not sure about that -- it would seem to me that the ultimate goal of promoting entropy would have to be considered evil on the basis that it it incompatible with the continuation of sentient life. Well, I'm looking at it as if its natural for sentient life to end which is entropy's purpose. Without it, there would be no death. Doesn't mean no aging but you'd just get to where you weren't able to care for yourself. Pain is all that a undying person has so entropy is a release and probably welcomed. >Now "evil" in this >context does not necessarily mean "nasty villain" -- Nyx would be a perfect example of an Entropic Immortal who does no "mustache twirling" even when she assumes male form. But if her goal of creating undead in greater numbers and varieties is realized, the result would not be good for the living beings that these undead would inevitably prey upon. Perhaps Nyx is a aberration to entropy. She's promoting a form of 'life' that doesn't end naturally. It has to be ended. I'm thinking that some entropics would think it a great gift to end the suffering completely. It's the same idea that lawfuls seem to think laws are great for everyone. My main point is if you get rid of the good/evil of any of the spheres, its wrong to make entropy contain all the evil just as its wrong that all chaotics are forced into that mold. I think the spheres presented exist in balance together. Lose entropy or energy or any sphere and everything is off balance and crashes. The rules or history might not back me up but its the only way it makes sense to me. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 19:36:08 PDT From: "Spencer Graham" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaraspace (and RLoft) Remember that X2 "Castle Amber" has connections back to the works of Clark Ashton Smith who is one of the accepted writers of the whole Lovecraftian mythos (along with HPL, REH, and a small hoard of other writers) Tis would lend some credance to the "Old Ones/ Cthulu" Connection...I've used the portal to the "Land of the Ghouls" in X2 as a Connection to Ravenloft before. Give your players the creeps read a buncha Edgar Allan Poe for a while. .... "When the DM smiles, it's already too late" :) Spencer >Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 17:51:38 +0200 >To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >From: DM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaraspace (and RLoft) Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >Robert Fry wrote: ><> >So you ruled that DoD (Day of Dread, not to be confused with Domains of Dread, the Ravenloft guide/sourcebook) affected the other spheres and planes, uh? But IIRC the PWA said it only affects Mystara planet.. oh well, >who cares: you can do what you want! I even destroyed Mystara once.. (i think i am the only DM who actually did it in his campaign) ;p ><No Magic diminished the farther one travels from Mystaraspace, so it didnt >effect the Realms at all - damn! - because Mystaraspace is on the edge of >Known Space in the aforementioned Spelljammer romp).>> >Is Mystaraspace nearer to the Spelljammer Triangle (Greyspace, Krynnspace >and Realmspace) or to the Vodoni Empire IYO?.. ><Selenica road instead.>> >I think the two best locations should be: Karameikos, north of the lake of >Threshold (Aston Point commerces logging with Threshold), with a monk of >the CoK as Aston, and no elves. Or in Darokin, north of Lake Amsorak, west >of Fort Lakeside (i guess that area is particularly unlucky.. especially >with meteors..;) -see a certain meteor crash during WotI..). ><deal happen on Mystara. I didnt want to wreck the planet with all the technology, i was trying to keep its influence down as much as possible. >Hence the emphasis on the arcology. > >I also changed it from Aelos to Mystaran prehistory - with a bit of change >in the timeline...>> >Well, i have no fear of altering my Mystara.. as long as i have countermeasures ready to undo what befell Mystara. For example, CM6 (the >Oard adventure) is a good adventure and my players enjoyed it a lot (they >were worshipped as gods by the Aelosians.. the God of Warfare, the God of >Magic, the God of Communication and the God of Madness.. ;p). However, i >thought it hadn't a really strong background to fully involve the players >(after all, at those levels -20+ lvl- they could freely ignore the rantings >of a sage who appears with his hut.. they could even nuke him for wasting >their time!), so i devised a way to incorporate it into my ongoing campaign. To make a long story short, an alien servitor of an otherwordly >god used the knowledge of an oard, the last of his species, to build a weapon and he nuked Mystara from his spaceship (where the PCs were to free >one of them held prisoner). Then he left but not before throwing the hapless and really demoralized PCs out of the spaceship into Voidspace, to >die the most horrible death.. Fortunately, the Immortals had sent omens to >a cleric friend of the PCs, First Mate of a flying ship owned by the party >wizard, and he left Mystara in time to save the crew and pick the PCs, raising those who had died. Then Benekander appeared (they played CM6 after >WotI) and told them that the Immortals were beginning to fade for lack of >followers and only Chaos and death would have ruled the Multiverse then.. >and this meant Thanatos (who the PCs had offended earlier). The only way to >prevent this was to go to Aelos, where the Oards lived, and exterminate that race in order to change the past (no Oards=no weapon that destroyed >Mystara=Mystara is back). So they jumped in the Nexus and the adventure began.. ><that it was the act of filling the entire plane with air that started the >Air vs Fire debate... And that the demiplane of Old Alphatia is affiliated >to the Sphere of Energy, which is why the Alphatians are so magically inclined. I may be wrong on this paragraph...>> >WotI said that Old Alphatia lies inside the Outer Plane of Energy, Draesten, but originally it was in the Prime (see M1: Into the Maelstrom).. ><infinity of the D+D Astral... :)>> >Ehe , yes, a trispace where no magic can function.. but it gives rules for >using firearms and car crashes in D&D! yuck! ;p >>Actually, i never said Old Ones are evil. Nobody really knows what they >>are, though their intervention in WotI seem to imply they're not evil. IMHO >>Old Ones live BEYOND the Barrier, and INSIDE the Barrier dwell other creatures imprisoned there by Old Ones or other powerful creatures. The >>Barrier is a multi-layered dimension in itself, and it is there that, IMC, >>the Dark Powers and Ravenloft dwell, as well as the "Cthulhu type" powers >>of Yhog (maybe the DP and these creatures are the same?) and Arik.. etc, >etc.. ><Cthulu types somewhere... maybe on a Ravenloft web page (try Shawn Stanleys >stuff DM - I seem to recall an article on Ravenloft there)...>> >Actually, that must have been my site: i am the only one with a Ravenloft-Mystara connection :) This is what i wrote: >" True Nature of the Dark Powers Revealed (nearly...) >So, that's my reasoning about the thing, but now you could ask: then who >are the Dark Powers, those who control the Mists? Are they the Old Ones? A >frightening idea, isn't it? But we know that the Old Ones are good guys and >that's not the case. So who are the Dark Powers? >My hypothesis is that they are somehow trapped inside the Vortex, unable to >free themselves and capable to affect the other dimensions and planes only >via the mists, transporting other people inside RL (not only evil people, >but also innocents and heroes). >The Dark Powers and the Old Ones >Who placed them there? I suspect the Old Ones did... probably they were powerful enitites, perhaps even Old Ones, that threatened the very fabric >of time and space, and so the Old Ones fabricated this dimensional prison >of immense proportions to keep them there and to avoid much damage. Think >of the Dark Powers as an entity much like the Lovecraftian entities of primeval origin, Azathoth, Nyarlathotep, Cthulhu and the like: that's the >idea... >The Dark Powers' True Goal >What are the Dark Powers trying to do? The frightening idea i have is this: >they're trying to swallow the entire universe! Since they cannot escape their prison and since they're not even free to roam Ravenloft materially >(well, there is a mysterious figure called Gentleman Caller who brings chaos and mischief in the land, but i see him as a sort of materialization >of the Dark Powers, not the DP properly...), their only hope is to drag the >whole Prime in the Vortex and to rule it inside there!!" >Now, i would change that similarity to Lovecraftian deities for the Dark >Powers: they are obviously two different things, as i stated above. And IMC >one of my PCs was sent to "Lovecraft Earth" from an emanation of the Elder >Ones (the cursed city of Salem's Lot) to bring to Mystara one of their most >faithful servants: Joseph Curwen! (see "The Strange Case of Charles Dexter >Ward") He is now trying to free the Elder Ones from the Vortex prison.. ><< Yes, I have the Old Ones Beyond the dem... sorry, DIMENSION of nightmares (lol) as well.. The Nightmare Lands are a sort of neutral ground where the minds of Old Ones and Mortals can touch in a limited fashion...>> >Well.. actually the Nightmare Lands from RL lie in the Veil of Sleep (between Deep Ethereal and Border Ethereal), so they're not in the Demiplane of Nightmares, though i think they might be connected (see what i >wrote for The Dreaming article by Haavard, either in his or my homepage). >I also have my own theory of WHO the Old Ones really are and what's the great scope of the Vortex, but i'll leave it for another day.. If my players ever make it to finish my Ultimate campaign and become Old Ones without passing from the Start, so to speak (without attaining Immortality >first), they'll get a big surprise.. ;) ><to generally obstruct them - he really does not like the Immortal Odin, who >is suspected of being a God... I got this idea from the fact that Ixion in >AD+D is one of the ancient Greeks imprisoned in Tarterus for Defying the >Gods... and his sentence was to spin on a Wheel of Fire for all eternity... >theres a picture of him in the Planes of Conflict planescape box... (and >that really IS Greek myth, as well)>> >Indeed! I think a few know that Ixion is a real world legendary figure of >the Greek pantheon, though not a very well known one, so it was possible >for TSR to use it for Mystara. I didn't know however there was an Ixion in >Planescape.. so what is the connection? How do you explain 2 Ixions in your >campaign? >DM >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #337 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:19:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #338 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Thursday, May 21 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 338 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaraspace (and RLoft) Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Writers' project [MYSTARA] - More Famous Folk for the Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Writers' project Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaraspace (and RLoft) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaraspace (and RLoft) Re: [MYSTARA] - Problems of "deities" in RPG Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 01:11:11 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaraspace (and RLoft) In a message dated 98-05-20 12:06:17 EDT, mdalmonte << Is Mystaraspace nearer to the Spelljammer Triangle (Greyspace, Krynnspace and Realmspace) or to the Vodoni Empire IYO?.. >> Personally, I would put it on the side of Athas's crystal sphere farthest away from both. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 23:18:40 +0000 From: "Mike Harvey" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format I agree 100% with your comments about D&D vs AD&D. There is only *one* issue I have with D&D, that that is the combat tables for fighters. I realize that they needed to stretch things out to 36 levels, but fighters improve THAC0 pretty slowly in D&D. At 20th level, magic users are pretty much equivalent between the two systems. They have similar hit dice, THAC0, and spell ability. However in D&D, wizards can go on to *double* their spell ability while in AD&D it's the end of the line. Thieves and clerics are pretty much the same at 20th level (though AD&D makes clerics a bit more powerful). Fighters however are much weaker in D&D than AD&D. Consider: D&D AD&D THAC0 7 2 Hit Dice 9d8+22 9d10+33 Avg. HP 62.5 82.5 Considering that monsters and other characters are pretty much the same for a given level, fighters seem pretty underpowered (even in AD&D a 20th level mage can toast a fighter). Weapon specialization can offset the THAC0 problem (though AD&D fighters can specialize too so that's no gain). The difference in hit points doesn't bother me though. Anyway, has anyone else noticed this, or is it just me? It seems to me that just using extended AD&D hit tables fixes this; at 20th level a fighter would have THACO 2, and at 36th level THAC0 -14, thus keeping pace with other 36th level characters. Mike - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bing@iccom.com (formerly mike@cs.pdx.edu) Mike Harvey HTTP://www.iccom.com/usrwww/bing/home.html Beaverton, Oregon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 09:37:56 +0200 From: Ezio Pignatelli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Writers' project >We now have a writers' message board up on Rob Rickard's site. Hmm. The address? Or is it not public information? (i.e., you have to join Writer's before). >A mail account has >been created which we post to and store all messages on.  Where? :-) - -- Ezio Pignatelli - Dipartimento di Astronomia - Padova Tel: +39-49-8293459 - Fax: +39-49-8759840 mailto:epignat@leda.pd.astro.it http://leda.pd.astro.it/~epignat - -- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 00:57:33 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: [MYSTARA] - More Famous Folk for the Almanac These Famous Folk and Villains didn't manage to find their way into the almanac (what can I say- that darned fire set us back; we said it was still a rough draft. :) Have fun with them! FAMOUS FOLKS GHAZAN KHAN: Son of the late Oktai, Ghazan has risen to become the newest khan of the Taijits. He publicly denounced his father after proof of Oktai's treachery surfaced, and swore his allegiance to the Great Khan of Ethengar. He is a tormented young man, torn between his hatred over his father's treason, and his loyalty to the man. Born: AC 994. Hair: Black, shaved on top. Eyes: Brown. Height: 5' 5". Appearance: Wiry build; long moustache. In the Taijit tradition, Ghazan always wears some sort of head covering. Combat Notes: AL LN; AC 3 (banded mail); MV 12; F7; hp 41; THAC0 14; #AT 3/2 saber or 2 composite short bow; Dmg 1d6+3 or 1d6; Save F7; S14 D15 C11 I12 W10 Ch13; ML 14. Weapon Specialization: Composite short bow. Magical Items: Saber +2. JEMUGU KHAN: Son of Chagatai, Jemugu rose to take his father's place as khan of the Yakkas upon his father's death (of natural causes) early last year. He shares his father's vision of an Ethengarian Empire, and is utterly loyal to the Great Khan. He was overjoyed to be able to attack the hated Taijit clan last year, and has been instrumental in aiding Moglai in keeping down groups of Taijit rebels. Born: AC 968. Hair: Black, shaved on top. He wears a topknot. Eyes: Brown. Height: 6'. Appearance: Jemugu massive figure for an Ethengarian. Tall and imposing, he still manages a commanding presence even though he is getting on in years; his tendency to wear gaudy clothing only draws further attention to him. Combat Notes: AL LN; AC 3 (banded mail); MV 12; F13; hp 80; THAC0 8; #AT 5/2 saber or 2 composite short bow; Dmg 1d6+6 or 1d6; Save F13; S18/34 D12 C16 I9 W13 Ch10; ML 16. Weapon Specialization: Saber. Magical items: Banded mail +1, Ring of Spell Turning. MCDUFF, ANGUS: During a raid into Glantri early in his career, Thar the orc-king kidnapped a minor noble, Lady Myra McDuff, and forced her to bear him a son; Angus McDuff is the product of that union. The infant Angus was rescued from Thar's clutches when forces from Fort Nordling drove the orc and his legions out of Glantri. He was raised by teachers at the Great School of Magic, under the name Angus McClintock, and rose to become a Professor Emeritus. Always shunned for his hideous looks, Angus left Glantri to explore the world, and eventually stumbled onto the lost city of Oenkmar. He remained in the ancient city for years, until he was forced to flee during the Shadow Elf invasion of AC 1012, whereupon he returned to the Great School of Magic, bringing a wealth of information about the ancient city and its people with him. Born: AC 970; Hair: White; Eyes: Grey; Height: 5' 6". Appearance: Angus' orcish heritage is evident to any who see him. From his porcine nose to his rotten teeth, he is truly an ugly sight to behold. He has long since given up any hope of attempting to disguise his appearance in public. Combat Notes: AL LG; AC 7 (ring of protection +3); MV 12; M15; hp 28; THAC0 16; #AT 1 spell; Dmg By spell; Save M15; S9 D14 C11 I18 W12 Ch6; ML 10. Magical Items: Ring of Protection +3, Boccob's Blessed Book. THUNDER: Born to one of the premiere noble families in Bluenose, Arogansa (Alphatia), Thunder grew accustomed to the good life at an early age. Upon reaching adolescence, his family was scandalized to learn that their only son (he has two older sisters) was unable to utilize magic. His family allowed him enough money to become Gentry- the highest status a non-magic user can attain in Alphatia. He quickly tired of his lesser status and journeyed to Thyatis, where he quickly rose through the social ranks due to his good looks and foppish charm, and his antics with one of the premiere adventuring companies of Thyatis. He disappeared from the social scene during the Great War, but returned a few years back to become one of the most publicly admired members of the Empire- the fact that his adventuring companions are influential military and governmental figures didn't hurt any, either. Born: AC 976; Hair: Blond, tied in a ponytail; Eyes: Amber; Height: 5'9". Appearance: Thunder is a strikingly handsome man with a wiry build. He dresses in the latest fashions and always carries his jeweled rapier and stiletto at his side. Combat Notes: AL NG; AC 5 (ring of protection +2); MV 12; T11; hp 46; THAC0 15; #AT 1 rapier or stiletto; Dmg 1d6+1 rapier or 1d3+2 stiletto; Save T11; S15 D17 C12 I12 W13 Ch16; ML 12. Magical Items: Ring of Protection +2, Stiletto +2. MOST WANTED INFAMOUS VILLAINS BLACKGUARD: This notorious thief first made his appearance in the nation of Arogansa in Alphata many years ago. He gained fame through his dazzling burglaries on noble's houses- made all the more unbelievable due to the fact that there was no evidence that he possessed any magical abilities of his own to foil the magic user's precautions! He, or someone claiming his name, eventually resurfaced in the city of Thyatis, where he once again performed some amazing burglaries- most notably on the homes of visiting Alphatian dignitaries. Though he disappeared for a time during the Great War, recent thefts in the city of Thyatis on the homes of expatriate Alphatians bear his calling card- a black velvet domino mask. There is a 5,000 Lucin reward for his capture, alive. Born: Unknown; Hair: Unknown; Eyes: Unknown. Appearance: One unconfirmed sighting noted a figure dressed entirely in black, bearing a vast assortment of tools and carrying a long sword. Combat Notes: AL NG; AC 5 (ring of protection +2); MV 12; T11; hp 46; THAC0 15; #AT 1 longsword +1; Dmg 1d8+1; Save T11; S15 D17 C12 I12 W13 Ch16; ML 12. Magical Items: Ring of Protection +2, Longsword +1 (Luckblade), possibly other assorted items to aid in theft. HOOLG RED MANE: A direct descendant of the orcish hero Big Chief Sitting Drool, Hoolg Red Mane was well bred to become chieftain of Red Orcland. He studied with the tribal shamans at an early age, and eventually turned his sights to tribal politics, quickly rising to leadership of his people. He is rather unusual for an orc, in that he prefers to study a foe before battle, in order to learn all his secrets. It is partially for this reason that he was chosen by his patron Immortal, Wogar, to lead the latest Great Goblinoid Migration to find the lost Blue Knife. Born: AC 976; Hair: Long, shaggy red hair. Eyes: Blue. Height: 6'. Appearance: Reddish skin; vaguely simian facial features. Hool often wears tribal facial paints and feathers. Combat Notes: AL LN; AC 5 (leather armor and headband); MV 12; C9 (of Wogar); hp 40; THAC0 16; #AT 1 hand axe or spell; Dmg 1d6+1 or by spell; Save C9; S16 D15 C11 I14 W14 Ch12(15 to other orcs); ML 15. Magical Items: Head Band of Protection +2. HUTAI-KHAN: Hutai-Khan was captured by Oenkmarians and sent into slavery at a young age. He eventually escaped, after learning much from the Oenkmarians, and returned to take over as khan (chieftain) of Hobgobland. He finally returned to Oenkmar in AC 1012, to get his revenge on his former master Xilochtli, only to learn the orcish priest had already fled the city. Together with Alebane and Tlatepetl, Hutai-Khan managed to survive the Shadow Elf takeover of Oenkmar and return to the surface world. Born: AC 968; Hair: Rusty Brown. Eyes: Red. Height: 6' 7". Appearance: Pale orange skin; vaguely oriental facial features. Dresses like an Ethengarian warrior. Combat Notes: AL LE; AC 4 (chain mail and shield); MV 12; F11; hp 55; THAC0 10; #AT2/1; Dmg 1d8+4; Save F11; S13 D14 C12 I12 W14 Ch14; ML 14. Weapon Specialization: Scimitar. Magical Items: Scimitar +2. MOGHUL-KHAN: Born a normal yellow Orc of the Broken Lands, Moghul-Khan rose to become a clan chieftain. During a raid into New Averoigne, he was inflicted with lycanthropy, and was transformed into a Devil Swine- an evil lycanthrope with the abilities to turn into a hog and to Charm others. Doubtless it was these abilities that allowed him to become the khan (chieftain) of Yellow Orkia. He didn't join in Thar's ill-fated assault on Glantri in 1006, preferring to stay in the Broken Lands. He was driven out of Yellow Orkia by the Shadow Elves, and is currently staying in Orcland, where he raids the Ethengar Khanates. The Great Khan will pay a hefty bounty for him, dead or alive. Born: AC 970; Hair: Dusty brown hair, knotted in a pigtail. Eyes: Cold, icy blue. Height: 5' 5". Appearance: Dull yellow skin; Overweight with ugly Pekingese facial features. Combat Notes: AL CE; AC 10 (3); MV 12; F9; hp 50; THAC0 12; #AT 2 hand (1 tusk) or Charm; Dmg Special (as per martial arts table +3) (2d6) or Charm; Save F9; S16(18) D14(13) C13 I15(16) W9 Ch11(9) (stats in parentheses are scores for Devil Swine form); ML 12. Weapon Specialization: Martial arts, 2 slots (+2 to hit and damage; +2 chart bonus). Magical Items: Nosering of Invisibility. NIZAM: Gnollish pasha (chieftain), Nizam distinguished himself at an early age with his holy crusades against gnollish heretics of northern Ylaruam. Upon his return to the Broken Lands, he was quickly placed on the South Gnollistani throne as tribal chieftain. Nizam suffers from multiple personalities- a sign of favor of his patron Immortal, Ranivorus- which served him well in his early political career. Now, as he enters old age, however, he is little more than a babbling madman, useful only as a tool of Ranivorus, who has his own plans for the legendary Blue Knife and the Great Migration. Born: AC 977; Hair: Tan mohawk, mostly grey. Eyes: Grey. Height: 6' 9". Appearance: Light brown hair with black spots. Nizam's normal tendency to hunch over is greatly exaggerated with his age. He wears puffy pants in the Ylari style and a long, black cloak. Combat Notes: AL CE; AC 10; MV 12; F11; hp 54; THAC0 10; #AT 2/1; Dmg 1d6+4; Save F11; S17 D13 C12 I14 W9 Ch14(16 to other gnolls); ML 16. Weapon Specialization: Saber. Magical Items: None. TLATEPETL: Born ? in the orcish city of Oenkmar, this red orc grew up into a life of slavery and sent off to the tlachtli pits at an early age. There he blossomed into a great tlachtli player and team leader, the idol of the masses. As must inevitably happen, his team eventually lost to another, and were sent to the temple of Atzanteotl to be sacrificed. He was rescued from certain death by Lord Zotl Tehuantipoca, the general of the Oenkmar army, as much for his demonstrated leadership abilities as to pull one over on Xilochtli, the high priest of Atzanteotl. Renamed Tlatepetl, to hide him from the clergy, he quickly rose in the ranks of the Oenkmarian army, eventually taking over as General upon the death of Lord Zotl in 1012 AC. He bears a strong hatred of priests and shamans to this day. Born: AC 990; Hair: Bright orange. Eyes: Blue. Height: 5' 11". Appearance: Dull reddish hide; simian facial features. Tlatepetl's body is covered with numerous scars, testimony to his days as a Tlachtli player and prisoner of the Oenkmar clergy. Combat Notes: AL LE; AC 3 (scale mail); MV 12; F10; hp 70; THAC0 11; #AT 2/1; Dmg 1d6+5; Save F10; S14 D17 C16 I13 W10 Ch12 (15 to other orcs); ML 16. Weapon Specialization: Footman's mace. Magical Items: Mace +2, Periapt of Wound Closure. DISTINGUISHED DEAD The following distinguished people are reported to have met their demise in AC 1014. CHAGATAI, Khan of the Yakkas in Ethengar. Chagatai had been the khan of the Yakkas for 39 years. He died of natural causes on Flaurmont 5 of last year, and was replaced by his eldest son as khan of the tribe. Chagatai had just turned 69. AL-KALIM, MOHAMMED, Sultan of the Emirates of Ylaruam. The former Sultan was a direct descendant of the legendary Ylari hero, Suleiman al-Kalim. He was executed, along with his Council of Preceptors, on Kaldmont 21, following a civil war in the Emirates. Mohammed al-Kalim was 57 years old. OKTAI, Khan of the Taijits in Ethengar. Oktai was executed by the Great Khan on Ambyrmont 8 of last year. He was revealed to have betrayed the khanates through his dealings with Glantrians and goblinoids. Oktai was 40 years old. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 07:48:50 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara At 05:49 PM 5/20/98 -0500, you wrote: >George Valencia wrote: >>I believe that what happens is that there a mixture of culture, like a group of North Lander that do worship Al-Kalim, while on the other side are a group of desert men that worship the Northern Dieties. In the RW, Aztecs worshipped Qetsecoatl (i spelled it like it sound, i know its wrong sorry.), who some Archaeologist believe was really a Viking Lord, who was worshipped in the Americas. >Interesting. I had no idea was thought to be a Viking lord. I would assume their are other exchanges besides religion (I see Al-kalim's faith spreading better that the Northern Immortals) but that's where I get stumped at. The idea stems from the fact that American Indians have no hair on their faces and good ole Quetzacoatl is pictured by the Aztecs with a long white beard. It is unsure exactly who the guy was, but it is an intriguing thought that he was someone other than an American Indian... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 07:57:32 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Writers' project At 09:37 AM 5/21/98 +0200, you wrote: >>We now have a writers' message board up on Rob Rickard's site. >Hmm. The address? Or is it not public information? (i.e., you have to join Writer's before). Exactly. We have concerns about copyright and whatnot. We are just taking commonsense precautions. But you are welcome to join us! Are you interested? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:19:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #338 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 08:49:08 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaraspace (and RLoft) In a message dated 98-05-20 19:03:28 EDT, you write: << Rob wrote: >BTW - how do we know the Old Ones arent evil? For all we know they could be >Evil Incarnate, trapped just beyond the borders of reality, waiting for a chance to Rule Again (mou-ha-ha!). >Blackballs are supposed to be servants of the Old Ones. And they arent exactly nice, are they? OK - they arent evil. But I wouldnt like to run into one nevertheless... >> Cool...I have somewhat incorporated the RL/Mystara connection. Well IMO RL's Dark Powers are the trapped essence of Arik or a combined trapping of rogue Immortals. However, the Old Ones work too. Blackballs could be the source used to gather all those people that appear when a RL domain is created. As a side note, I once submitted to the old TSR on AOL RL boards that perhaps the DPs are not evil. Perhaps they are as truly nuetral as you can get. This nuetrality being a balance of Lawful, nuetral, and chaotic "powers". The good provides a prison for the nasties of the multiverse, seeking them out and drawing them. The nuetrals provide the the heroes to defend the poor folk (and given the nuetral status these heros are ponly present in limited numbers and last but for a short time). And the evils promote the evil in the DoD. Or the Dark Powers could just be an undefined plot tool created by TSR and the Karget (sp) to drive everyone insane with speculation. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 19:22:50 GMT From: lyndon@pobox.com (Lyndon Baugh) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Alex, Not sure if this is what you meant, but in the 400's the Vandals ended up with North Africa, the Visigoths with Spain and some of south France and the Ostrogoths with Italy. In the 500's the emperor Justinian reconquered the Vandal and I think some of the Visigoth area and got in a wretched long-term war with the Ostrogoths that ended up ruining what was left of Italy. As usual I'll recommend L. Sprague De Camp's LEST DARKNESS FALL for a good fiction read in that time. In the story an American archeologist is transported in time (accidentally, one-way, with only the clothes on his back and not even a suitcase) from 1936 to Ostrogothic Italy and tries to prevent the dark ages. It is a good read in a number of areas, including what does NOT work. He does not manage to invent gunpowder, or an accurate clock. He does manage to invent whiskey and double-entry bookkeeping ... Part of the reason for the lack of success Justinian historically had with the reconquest was politics. If a general was Too Successful there was the danger he might decide "to heck with conquering barbarians, let's take over the capital and make myself emperor." The book JUSTINIAN just came out by "T.N. Turtlebaum". Any resemblance between this author and Harry Turtledove can be disavowed if sales figures aren't what they are for historical fantasies (some bookstores have rather brain-dead computerized ordering systems). There were CELTIC tribes that got into Greece and Asia Minor, 200's to 300''s B.C. (long before Rome went big time). Part of the reason for that is so much of Greek and Macedonian forces was scattered over the remnant successor states of Alexander's empire ... Anyway the Galatians as in small books in the New Testament referred to relatives of the Gauls who had settled in what is now Turkey ... They were eventually picked up by the Romans. >Alex295 wrote: >>Hmm.....I am trying to remember the details and names of the real world example I am thinking of. This being the Germanic Tribes that inherited Rome and its holdings in the middle east. I forget the name of the Emperor and the specific middle eastern cities. IIRC the western roman empire waged a war against these cities when they declared independence. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 15:49:57 +0100 From: Thorfinn Tait Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac On Wed, 20 May 1998 Fabrizio Paoli wrote: AAAnyway, a triumphant production all around. The Hollow World Atlas will be welcomed when you add it to the final version; I'd like to see what's happening in Nithia and Milenia. Except for the Schattenalfen, there was hardly any mention of the Hollow World in the Events. >We had a little problem with HW. Our correspondant disappeared... no kidding, he truly disappeared. If you see a Klantryan ghost going by the name of Thorf, then don't turn or destroy it, but tell how to reach Gallidox Publishing Co. in Mirros :) *noise of strangled sheep stomach attached to pipes being blown into* Urgh... [A stocky young Klantrian wearing a bedraggled looking kilt emerges from a hole in the ground...] Um, anyone have directions for Mirros around here? [A crowd of angry looking natives gathers round the beleagured Klantrian bearing daggers and fanatical grins...] I think I must have made a wrong turn somewhere down the tunnel a peedie while ago. The sun is still red - I must *still* be stuck in the Hollow World. [The crowd closes in.] Friends, no need to be like that, I promise you I didn't mean to bust a hole in the middle of your village... I'll just be going now. [The Klantrian makes a dive for the tunnel as the knives start to fly, only catching a few in non-vital yet extremely painful areas.] Whew, that was a close one. And I thought the Azcans were bad! Sheesh. Will I ever find the way to Mirros? *To be continued...* ========================================= "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost." Thorfinn Tait--Curufin@velvia.demon.co.uk Not missing, just presumed dead... Pay special attention to the second line of the quotation above for now... ========================================= *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 10:36:04 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Daly wrote: >The idea stems from the fact that American Indians have no hair on their faces and good ole Quetzacoatl is pictured by the Aztecs with a long white beard. It is unsure exactly who the guy was, but it is an intriguing thought that he was someone other than an American Indian... Oh, I think I've heard of this. Is this tied to the Aztecs believing the Cortes was a returned god just before he wiped them out? I think I heard there was a myth of a white-skinned god returning to them that at first made it easy for Cortes. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 10:44:39 -0500 From: "Lord BKis1" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format - -----Original Message----- From: Mike Harvey To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: Thursday, May 21, 1998 1:22 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format I agree 100% with your comments about D&D vs AD&D. There is only *one* issue I have with D&D, that that is the combat tables for fighters. I realize that they needed to stretch things out to 36 levels, but fighters improve THAC0 pretty slowly in D&D. At 20th level, magic users are pretty much equivalent between the two systems. They have similar hit dice, THAC0, and spell ability. However in D&D, wizards can go on to *double* their spell ability while in AD&D it's the end of the line. Thieves and clerics are pretty much the same at 20th level (though AD&D makes clerics a bit more powerful). Fighters however are much weaker in D&D than AD&D. Consider: D&D AD&D THAC0 7 2 Hit Dice 9d8+22 9d10+33 Avg. HP 62.5 82.5 Considering that monsters and other characters are pretty much the same for a given level, fighters seem pretty underpowered (even in AD&D a 20th level mage can toast a fighter). Weapon specialization can offset the THAC0 problem (though AD&D fighters can specialize too so that's no gain). The difference in hit points doesn't bother me though. Anyway, has anyone else noticed this, or is it just me? It seems to me that just using extended AD&D hit tables fixes this; at 20th level a fighter would have THACO 2, and at 36th level THAC0 -14, thus keeping pace with other 36th level characters. Mike Is this with the D&D weapon master system? I think that it takes care of that problem. Especially with THAC0. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 10:44:13 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaraspace (and RLoft) Alex295 wrote: >Or the Dark Powers could just be an undefined plot tool created by TSR and the Karget (sp) to drive everyone insane with speculation. I think this is the correct answer ;) - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:50:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Problems of "deities" in RPG At least until they come out with the Platnum Box, with the rules to play the Old Ones :) Rob pontificated: >:) I liked the way you could "win" at D+D - its the only roleplaying game with an ending. My first ever (successful) D+D character is now, oh, 11 years old now? And is a Celestial 3 Immortal (whats that, about 18?). >Only another 18 levels to go before full hierarch... And then all I have to do is do it all over again! No problem. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | UVa, Material Science Dept. |"Earth is too small and fragile a basket IPM Lab | for Mankind to keep all his eggs in." (804) 984-3789 | -- Robert Anson Heinlein *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:57:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Galwylin wrote: >cultures so different and not having influence on each other, I continue to see the picture of crossing from Ylaruam to the Northern Reaches to be actually like crossing a line on the ground. Surely, along these borders there is a meshing of culture that is softens the severe differnces between countries. What lies between Ylaruam and the Norther Reaches is probably one of the most problematic since one's a desert culture and the other an ice culture. Ylaruam and Northern Reachs are probably the biggest eye sore in Mystara and bothered me for a long time. I was thinking yesterday, is it possible to switch Heldenn and Northern Reaches around. Therefore, NR will be pushed farthor north, and be more reasonable with its climate. What is now NR would be Heldenn territory, with a more temperate climate. Ylaruam will still be too hot, but that is caused by magic. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | UVa, Material Science Dept. |"Earth is too small and fragile a basket IPM Lab | for Mankind to keep all his eggs in." (804) 984-3789 | -- Robert Anson Heinlein *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 10:56:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara - ---Shin Chyang Yu wrote: >Galwylin wrote: >>cultures so different and not having influence on each other, I continue >>to see the picture of crossing from Ylaruam to the Northern Reaches to >>be actually like crossing a line on the ground. Surely, along these borders there is a meshing of culture that is softens the severe differnces between countries. What lies between Ylaruam and the Norther >>Reaches is probably one of the most problematic since one's a desert culture and the other an ice culture. >Ylaruam and Northern Reachs are probably the biggest eye sore in Mystara and bothered me for a long time. I was thinking yesterday, is it possible to switch Heldenn and Northern Reaches around. Therefore, NR will be pushed farthor north, and be more reasonable with its climate. What is now NR would be Heldenn territory, with a more temperate climate. Ylaruam will still be too hot, but that is caused by magic. Well, you know, if you try to find a similar exemple in the real world, you must effectively keep in mind the differences. The two majors I think of are, as told above, the magic... Mystara is in a multiverse and Ylaruam is really close to the plane of fire. The second, none less negligeable, are the Immortals who are quit active with their followers, contrarly (I hope!) to our world. The gathering of so much different culture in a so small area can only be maintain by action from these Immortals. At least it's one easy answer I can give... now, why do these immortals would want that? For Ylaruam, Al-Kalim sure want is faith to expand (I got into Ierendi, no?) but I don't think that immortals like Odin and Hell are ready to let go there followers to the religion of a newcomer... And why is it so freezing and NR? Well don't know, maybe a current from the north? _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:06:51 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara on 5/20/98 Glen wrote: >At 05:49 PM 5/20/98 -0500, you wrote: >>George Valencia wrote: >>>I believe that what happens is that there a mixture of culture, like a >>>group of North Lander that do worship Al-Kalim, while on the other side >>>are a group of desert men that worship the Northern Dieties. In the RW, >>>Aztecs worshipped Qetsecoatl (i spelled it like it sound, i know its wrong sorry.), who some Archaeologist believe was really a Viking Lord, >>>who was worshipped in the Americas. >>Interesting. I had no idea was thought to be a Viking lord. I would >>assume their are other exchanges besides religion (I see Al-kalim's faith spreading better that the Northern Immortals) but that's where I get stumped at. >The correct spelling is Quetzacoatl. I never heard about the Viking stuff, either, though. Interesting indeed. Well my Archaelogy Instructor was one of those Atlantologist, who currently believes in Crust Displacement, as well as the myth of Viking visit the Americas, all the way to Mexico. He takes credit for a Johnny Quest adventure, that featured the Descentants of Vikings living in the Florida Everglades. I take life with a grain of salt...a slice of lemon, and a shot tequila. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 13:18:08 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Shin Chyang Yu wrote: >Ylaruam and Northern Reachs are probably the biggest eye sore in Mystara and bothered me for a long time. I was thinking yesterday, is it possible to switch Heldenn and Northern Reaches around. Therefore, NR will be pushed farthor north, and be more reasonable with its climate. What is now NR would be Heldenn territory, with a more temperate climate. Ylaruam will still be too hot, but that is caused by magic. How about just advancing the Northern Reaches Vikings to the Northern Reaches Danes? Maybe some of the isolated villages cling to the older ways but we've already seen that Vestland is farther along than this. Trim out a few references to the cold weather and they're managable without being moved. The Solderfjord Jarldoms is another that doesn't neccessarily need so much Viking influence. Ostland could still hold old tradition but it needs to be a tradition not dependent on coldness. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #338 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, May 21 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 339 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara [MYSTARA] - Is the Almanac on a Web-site? [MYSTARA] - Upside-down binding?? Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaraspace [MYSTARA] - Currently putting the 1015 Almanac on my web site. Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - A thought on Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons????/half dragons [MYSTARA] - Re: Vikings in Mesoamerica? Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Vikings in Mesoamerica? Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Vikings in Mesoamerica? Re: [MYSTARA] - Upside-down binding?? Re: [MYSTARA] - Is the Almanac on a Web-site? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 13:33:55 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara George Valencia wrote: >Well my Archaelogy Instructor was one of those Atlantologist, who currently believes in Crust Displacement, as well as the myth of Viking visit the Americas, all the way to Mexico. He takes credit for a Johnny Quest adventure, that featured the Descentants of Vikings living in the Florida Everglades. The Vikings visiting the Americans is still considered myth? I thought that's been proven. At least it was on the History Channel recently. Don't know about them visiting Mexico but I thought that perhaps the story of white-skinned gods was passed along like most myths are. Kinda like our myth of a red-skinned man with pointed ears is gonna get you if you're not good. Just a corruption of a religious concept. Or Santa Claus. This is off-topic but for the life of me, I can't remember how I got on to it. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:38:12 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara on Thu, 21 May 1998 10:36:04 -0500 Galwylin > DDaly wrote: >The idea stems from the fact that American Indians have no hair on their faces and good ole Quetzacoatl is pictured by the Aztecs with a long white beard. It is unsure exactly who the guy was, but it is an intriguing thought that he was someone other than an American Indian... >Oh, I think I've heard of this. Is this tied to the Aztecs believing the Cortes was a returned god just before he wiped them out? I >think I heard there was a myth of a white-skinned god returning to >them that at first made it easy for Cortes. You can thank His Native lover Malinche for that? He slaughter about 5000 unarmed Aztecs, in Cholula, because she thought they were going to eat him. Besides The old Feathered Serpent's return was predicted, he was to return in the year 1 Reed according to Aztec/Mayan Calendar. Which was the date of Cortes's arrival to Veracruz. I take life with a grain of salt...a slice of lemon, and a shot tequila. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 15:39:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Is the Almanac on a Web-site? >Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 19:27:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg >Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac >Well, I'm done. Read through the whole thing in two days, and formatted it, too. Further proof that I do not, in fact, have anything resembling a life. Sheesh, Glen. You must live in a small, boring Ontario town. Here in the Big Smoke there are too many distractions. Is this stuff posted permanently on a Web-page? I had to delete it all because it blew out my message-quota when it was transmitted on Sunday, but someday I may want to have a look at it "all". - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 15:40:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Upside-down binding?? >Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 15:39:38 -0400 >From: Rob Miracle >Subject: [MYSTARA] - Rob's Going out of the RPG Business Fire Sale >*** SPECIAL *** >Deities and Demigods, 1st Ed. G $75.00 >w/ Cthulhu & Melnibonean Mythos, Bound Upside Down I'm really not interested in selling it but I am testing the market. >*** SPECIAL *** Does "bound upside-down" have some secondary meaning in English I'm not aware of? Did TSR really bind a book upside-down? - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:49:29 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaraspace On Wed, 20 May 1998, Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 98-05-18 14:18:42 EDT, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: >>This is the change from D+D to AD+D planes coming in again (sorry!). I ttthink in AD+D the astral does behave more like the ether of D+D... >The main difference between D&D and AD&D in the handling of the Astral plane is that in D&D there is no direct connection between the Astral plane and the Prime Material plane -- to get from one to the other you must go through the Ethereal plane. So if you stick to the D&D cosmology, in the dimension of Mystara no "Astral" spells or psionics should work. Just a small comment: Well, there is no reason why you can't make a few modifications on Astral-spells and psionics if you really want to keep them in your campaign though.. IMC the adjacent plane rule is ignored whenever appropriate. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:59:14 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Currently putting the 1015 Almanac on my web site. >Is this stuff posted permanently on a Web-page? I had to delete it all because it blew out my message-quota when it was transmitted on Sunday, but someday I may want to have a look at it "all". >---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) I am working on it, in my web site, Mystara Online. Right Now, i Have finished the transferring the first twelve of 48 e-mail messages of the Almanac in my web page by the time you read this the Jungle Coast Atlas Page will be up and running. Visit Mystara Online ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:14:29 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara At 10:36 AM 5/21/98 -0500, you wrote: >Daly wrote: >>The idea stems from the fact that American Indians have no hair on their faces and good ole Quetzacoatl is pictured by the Aztecs with a long white beard. It is unsure exactly who the guy was, but it is an intriguing thought that he was someone other than an American Indian... >Oh, I think I've heard of this. Is this tied to the Aztecs believing the Cortes was a returned god just before he wiped them out? I think I heard there was a myth of a white-skinned god returning to them that at first made it easy for Cortes. Exactly. They were extremely impressed with Cortes because of his pale skin and beard. They called him "Quetzacoatl" and believed he was their god returned to them. As I recall, the mythological Quetzacoatl was somehow different from the other Aztec gods... I mean in personality and whatnot. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:19:56 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara At 11:38 AM 5/21/98 PDT, you wrote: >on Thu, 21 May 1998 10:36:04 -0500 Galwylin > DDDaly wrote: >>The idea stems from the fact that American Indians have no hair on ttheir faces and good ole Quetzacoatl is pictured by the Aztecs with a long white beard. It is unsure exactly who the guy was, but it is an intriguing thought that he was someone other than an American Indian... >>Oh, I think I've heard of this. Is this tied to the Aztecs believing the Cortes was a returned god just before he wiped them out? I >think II heard there was a myth of a white-skinned god returning to >them that at first made it easy for Cortes. >You can thank His Native lover Malinche for that? He slaughter about 5000 unarmed Aztecs, in Cholula, because she thought they were going to eat him. Besides The old Feathered Serpent's return was predicted, he was to return in the year 1 Reed according to Aztec/Mayan Calendar. Which was the date of Cortes's arrival to Veracruz. I take life with a grain of salt...a slice of lemon, and a shot tequila. And thank God he did! Or we might have human-hungry border crossers down south instead of normal-food-hungry border crossers... In any case, let's steer this topic back to Mystara somehow or let it go...it HAS been interesting though! Maybe somehow get into an Azcan discussion on this? Atruaghin/Quetzacoatl connection? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:34:39 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals On Wed, 20 May 1998, Galwylin wrote: >Daly wrote: >>There was, however, a slight personality change. I have the CoK portraying Halav and crew in a more "Thyatian" way. This gets on the nerves of more traditional Traladarans. >That's exactly how I would think integration of Halav into CoK would be. Something most Traladarans could flock too but the traditional ones wouldn't be pleased at all. The way I see it, this will erase the fascinating potential of religious conflict between the two peoples. IMC Church of Karameikos does not deny the existance of these Immortals, but will advice its followers to stick to its traditional patrons, because these are the most wise and will guide their followers to salvation. Other Immortals can put strange ideas into the heads of mortals. Sometimes dangerous ideas. Ofcourse there are extremist elements within the CoK who calls the Traldaran 3 false or evil. Håvard ** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 13:35:38 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara >>on Thu, 21 May 1998 10:36:04 -0500 Galwylin > DDDDaly wrote: >>>The idea stems from the fact that American Indians have no hair on tttheir faces and good ole Quetzacoatl is pictured by the Aztecs with a long white beard. It is unsure exactly who the guy was, but it is an intriguing thought that he was someone other than an American Indian... >>>Oh, I think I've heard of this. Is this tied to the Aztecs believing the Cortes was a returned god just before he wiped them out? I tthink >>I heard there was a myth of a white-skinned god returning to >them that >>at first made it easy for Cortes. >>You can thank His Native lover Malinche for that? He slaughter about 5000 unarmed Aztecs, in Cholula, because she thought they were going to >>eat him. Besides The old Feathered Serpent's return was predicted, he was to return in the year 1 Reed according to Aztec/Mayan Calendar. Which was the date of Cortes's arrival to Veracruz. >And thank God he did! Or we might have human-hungry border crossers down >south instead of normal-food-hungry border crossers... >In any case, let's steer this topic back to Mystara somehow or let it go...it HAS been interesting though! >Maybe somehow get into an Azcan discussion on this? >Atruaghin/Quetzacoatl connection? would you wish to do an adventure where a group of Heldannic Knights take the place of the Evil Cortes and his Spanish Army, making some Azcans believe that he's Quetzacoatl returned? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:40:20 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A thought on Old Ones On Wed, 20 May 1998, Dominique Rivard wrote: >So I conclude with this last tought... I don't think that trying to figure out what are the OO is a good thing. Figuring out that gods where immortals was a good thing, many things developped for the mortals, who are supposed to be the center of a D&D campain. Will defining the OO change something for the mortals? The answer is and should stay no. Stop looking at the stars, there's so many things still to discover on Mystara itself. Don't worry, the PP is big enough to hold all settings and, if not, there's still planes or dimensions! I agree with you completely. I think any attampt to describe the Old Ones will make them less mysterious. And they should be the ultimate mystery. Of this reason I dont like the ending of WotI. Or, at least I dont like some of the interpretations of what happened there. Thats why I think Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:54:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #339 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com that that creature no longer is an Old One, but perhaps a fallen Old One who now uses the name Gareth.... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:50:21 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara On Thu, 21 May 1998, Galwylin wrote: >How about just advancing the Northern Reaches Vikings to the Northern Reaches Danes? Maybe some of the isolated villages cling to the older ways but we've already seen that Vestland is farther along than this. Trim out a few references to the cold weather and they're managable without being moved. The Solderfjord Jarldoms is another that doesn't neccessarily need so much Viking influence. Ostland could still hold old tradition but it needs to be a tradition not dependent on coldness. What do you mean by NR Danes? When did people change from being danish vikings to becoming danish danes? I have been thinking about modernizing the NR though. However I dont think feudalism in the NR is a good idea. The vikings have a very strong sense of individualism. No man could own another. sure there were the Jarls and your clan whom you owed loyality to, but they didn't own you. The Vikings were really vert reasonable people. Hmmm, maybe I only think so because I am Norwegian... Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:59:12 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons????/half dragons On Tue, 19 May 1998, DM wrote: >At 13.21 19/05/98 +0200, Haavard wrote: *grinning with a shadow smile* >well well well, guys... do you see any problems in introducing half dragons in Mystara? For i think there ARE half-dragons, somewhere, hidden and ready to show their colors... any problems with this? not me.... >And to tell you the truth, when you said Knight Dragon you made the exact definition of this breed... the same one I use... the same one Mystara will hear in the future... I didnt say that but... >*being even more cryptic, he disappears..* Hmmmmm :) Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 13:56:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Curtis Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Vikings in Mesoamerica? >>George Valencia wrote: >>>I believe that what happens is that there a mixture of culture, like a >>>group of North Lander that do worship Al-Kalim, while on the other side >>>are a group of desert men that worship the Northern Dieties. In the RW, >>>Aztecs worshipped Qetsecoatl (i spelled it like it sound, i know its >>>wrong sorry.), who some Archaeologist believe was really a Viking Lord, >>>who was worshipped in the Americas. >>Interesting. I had no idea >either without looking it up> was thought to be a Viking lord. I would >>assume their are other exchanges besides religion (I see Al-kalim's >>faith spreading better that the Northern Immortals) but that's where I >>get stumped at. >The idea stems from the fact that American Indians have no hair on their >faces and good ole Quetzacoatl is pictured by the Aztecs with a long >white >beard. It is unsure exactly who the guy was, but it is an intriguing >thought that he was someone other than an American Indian... On a trip to Tulum, a Mayan city in the Yucatan of Mexico, the tour guides told us about a viking galley discovered in the reefs off the coast. They certainly did get around. Of course only one piece of evidence isn't good enough to draw definitive conclusions, but it's possible that the Mayans adopted some viking things, hence the Aztecs eventually picked up on it. Here's another interesting culture clash my english professor claims to have read about: Archaeologists recently discovered an Egyptian tomb dating from the old kingdom complete with its mummy. Traces of cocaine were found in the corpse. Since they haven't been able to prove the mummy a fake or that the cocaine was planted, archaeologists can only guess that Egypt and mesoamerica had some kind of trade, obviously a HUGE problem to figure out in archaeology. A potential of trade means a potential for theological borrowing/synthesizing. Finally, it's common for mesoamerican and hindu cultures to adopt any god that comes along. Hindu culture holds that the more ways one can name aspects of the universe, the easier it is to understand the universe. Therefore God, Allah, Zeus, Honda, and a whole bunch of western/near east gods exist as part of hinduism. I don't know why mesoamerican cultures readily adopted other gods, but the Christian God found its way into several pantheons, mind you God was minor compared with all the other gods to come before it. I know the above was a big digression from D&D, so let me tie it in. Many cultures readily assimilate aspects of other cultures. In Mystara, the Ethengarians and Atruaghins are likely the most ready to adopt aspects of foreign cultures as long as it doesn't clash with any fundamental part of the present culture. I don't think intermixing of Northland and Ylari culture would actually occur. Practically all Ylaris only recognize Al-Kalim and his philosophy of the Desert Garden. The Northlanders don't have the problem of a desert, hence the Desert Garden philosophy won't imminently appeal to them. Well, maybe some Ylaris might adopt Northland cultures since the coast actually can grow food and the coast dwellers don't need the Desert Garden as much as the other Ylaris do. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:06:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara - ---George Valencia wrote: >would you wish to do an adventure where a group of Heldannic Knights take the place of the Evil Cortes and his Spanish Army, making some Azcans believe that he's Quetzacoatl returned? If you intend to do that adventure, think about the immortals of the Azcan (I don't no jack about them, thought), would they let mere mortals play behing their back? The Azcan version of clerics (is it shamans?) won't try to contact their immortals? I don't think that it would be effective if the Heldanners don't have any immortal help. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:07:23 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >The way I see it, this will erase the fascinating potential of religious conflict between the two peoples. IMC Church of Karameikos does not deny the existance of these Immortals, but will advice its followers to stick to its traditional patrons, because these are the most wise and will guide their followers to salvation. Other Immortals can put strange ideas into the heads of mortals. Sometimes dangerous ideas. Ofcourse there are extremist elements within the CoK who calls the Traldaran 3 false or evil. Not necessarily. Just look at the problems between real world Christian faiths. What it will do is blur the line between Thyatians and Traladarans though. They won't be able to say one faith is more truer to themselves because its all been mixed together. I could see Traladarans going to the CoK believing it is a better representation of Halav and company while others would see it as corrupting. If you need a fringe group though, the Cult of Halav would definitely benefit by all the in-fighting between the CoK and the CoT. As far as I know, isn't Karameikos the only nation with three different faiths? It would really add to the reality of those faiths that its the matters of faith that separate them and not which Immortals are worshipped. In my area, we have quite a few different churches and there are more than one of them believing the others are doing it wrong. Maybe comparing the CoK to Protesants, CoT to Catholics and Cult of Halav to paganism would help you see what I mean though the paganism difference isn't as severe as in the real world? - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:12:57 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >What do you mean by NR Danes? When did people change from being danish vikings to becoming danish danes? Well, I'm not up on my Scandinavian history but the Danes I'm speaking of are the ones that terrorized the coasts of France and England and eventually settled there. I maybe wrong but I'm pretty sure they were Vikings first and later called Danes. I have no idea where these Danish folk come from ;> - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:49:28 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Vikings in Mesoamerica? Adam Curtis wrote: >I don't think intermixing of Northland and Ylari culture would actually occur. Practically all Ylaris only recognize Al-Kalim and his philosophy of the Desert Garden. The Northlanders don't have the problem of a desert, hence the Desert Garden philosophy won't imminently appeal to them. Well, maybe some Ylaris might adopt Northland cultures since the coast actually can grow food and the coast dwellers don't need the Desert Garden as much as the other Ylaris do. I was speaking of Al-Kalim's faith with the Desert Garden being a spiritual thing and not purely physical. It was a conversation with Bruce on the MMB that got me to see Al-Kalim in a different light and not think it was time to get rid of the Ylaruam desert. It was that spiritual aspect I thought would go farther into the Reaches than their faith. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:52:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Vikings in Mesoamerica? - ---Adam Curtis wrote: >I don't think intermixing of Northland and Ylari culture would actually occur. Practically all Ylaris only recognize Al-Kalim and his philosophy of the Desert Garden. The Northlanders don't have the problem of a desert, hence the Desert Garden philosophy won't imminently appeal to them. Well, maybe some Ylaris might adopt Northland cultures since the coast actually can grow food and the coast dwellers don't need the Desert Garden as much as the other Ylaris do. I can't think of an Ylari living in the Emirates having an other faith than the Eternal Truth... The individual would likely be ignored by every other self-respecting Ylari. That's with any luck. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:53:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Upside-down binding?? Pierre Savoie pontificated: >Does "bound upside-down" have some secondary meaning in English I'm not aware of? Did TSR really bind a book upside-down? It was probably a mistake, that the cover is upside down with respect to the pages inside. Therefore more rare and maybe more valuable, like those upside down stamps. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 23:52:36 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Is the Almanac on a Web-site? At 15.39 21/05/98 -0400, Pierre Savoie wrote: >Is this stuff posted permanently on a Web-page? I had to delete it all because it blew out my message-quota when it was transmitted on Sunday, but someday I may want to have a look at it "all". 1) There's a permanent Almanac Web Page at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ from where you can dowload both 1014 and 1015 Almanacs. 2) I'm not sure, but I think Shawn Stanley is going to html-ize and host the Almanac in his home page too. Shawn? http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/ 3) I've started converting the Almanac into a doc file. I'll let you know when it'll be ready. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #339 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, May 22 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 340 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - A thought on Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - A thought on Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 4 : Gareth = another Entropic Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta & Lupins Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 4 : Gareth = another Entropic Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 4 : Gareth = another Entropic Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 4 : Gareth = another Entropic Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 4 : Gareth = another Entropic Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara [MYSTARA] - Seafaring Dwarves (was Rakasta & Lupins) Re: [MYSTARA] - Is the Almanac on a Web-site? Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 18:58:06 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara At 01:35 PM 5/21/98 PDT, you wrote: >>>on Thu, 21 May 1998 10:36:04 -0500 Galwylin > DDDDDaly wrote: >>Maybe somehow get into an Azcan discussion on this? >>Atruaghin/Quetzacoatl connection? >would you wish to do an adventure where a group of Heldannic Knights take the place of the Evil Cortes and his Spanish Army, making some Azcans believe that he's Quetzacoatl returned? Sounds pretty neat! And I presume the Azcans are taking the place of the EVIL Aztecs, right? ; ) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 18:59:06 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A thought on Old Ones At 10:40 PM 5/21/98 +0200, you wrote: >On Wed, 20 May 1998, Dominique Rivard wrote: >>So I conclude with this last tought... I don't think that trying to figure out what are the OO is a good thing. Figuring out that gods where immortals was a good thing, many things developped for the mortals, who are supposed to be the center of a D&D campain. Will defining the OO change something for the mortals? The answer is and should stay no. Stop looking at the stars, there's so many things still to discover on Mystara itself. Don't worry, the PP is big enough to hold all settings and, if not, there's still planes or dimensions! >I agree with you completely. I think any attampt to describe the Old Ones will make them less mysterious. And they should be the ultimate mystery. Of this reason I dont like the ending of WotI. Or, at least I dont like some of the interpretations of what happened there. Thats why I think that that creature no longer is an Old One, but perhaps a fallen Old One who now uses the name Gareth.... Now THAT is a neat idea that I had not thought of! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 18:50:29 -0400 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Shin Chyang Yu wrote: >Ylaruam and Northern Reachs are probably the biggest eye sore in Mystara and bothered me for a long time. I was thinking yesterday, is it possible to switch Heldenn and Northern Reaches around. Therefore, NR will be pushed farthor north, and be more reasonable with its climate. What is now NR would be Heldenn territory, with a more temperate climate. Ylaruam will still be too hot, but that is caused by magic. Why is this a problem and not a unique feature to be taken advantage of? The Emirates developed because of a gateway to the Elemental Plane of Fire. The fact that the Emirates and the Northern Reaches are adjacent should be used to fuel speculation of the existence of that gateway and not be thought of as a geographical impossibility! A DM should leap at the opportunity to describe the strange phenomenon of travelling across the mountains from the Northern Reaches to Ylaruam. Each day is noticeably hotter than the previous, and then the PCs round a mountain bend and the sandy haze of a desert is visible: "By Odin's beard!" breathed Hrothgar "it's true!" The party of novice adventurers gathered together and stared at the unlikely sight. Many had loosened the straps of their garments and relieved themselves of their headgear in an effort to cope with the unseasonal warmth. There in front of them stretched the pass into the arid plains below. Although their village was a journey of less than a week behind them, it now seemed more than half a continent away. "Very interesting" mused Volstad the young mage. He glanced behind him once again at the familiar pines, then forward into the alien landscape. "It's as our elders said, but how can this be?" Shaking themselves free of the spell of the desert, the companions began making preparations to camp. Tomorrow would see the dawn of new adventures! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 18:23:19 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara DJ Sahlas wrote: >Why is this a problem and not a unique feature to be taken advantage of? The Emirates developed because of a gateway to the Elemental Plane of Fire. The fact that the Emirates and the Northern Reaches are adjacent should be used to fuel speculation of the existence of that gateway and not be thought of as a geographical impossibility! I don't think the Northern Reaches and Ylaruam were his problem. I thought it was the Heldennic territories weren't colder than the Reaches. Starting out from Thyatis to Ylaruam it gets very hot. From Ylaruam to the Reaches it gets cold. From the Reaches to the Heldennics it gets warmer? Ylaruam is an oddity that does have an explaination but now the NR needs one too. At least that's what I thought his post said. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:59:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara - - Håvard_Rønne_Faanes wrote: >I agree with you completely. I think any attampt to describe the Old Ones >will make them less mysterious. And they should be the ultimate mystery. >Of this reason I dont like the ending of WotI. Or, at least I dont like >some of the interpretations of what happened there. Thats why I think that that creature no longer is an Old One, but perhaps a fallen Old One >who now uses the name Gareth.... Ok, you did make me search for that Gareth! (You see I'm not familiar with what lies after 1010 AC because I launched my campaign at the blackmoorian era to fill lack of information I haved on that futur. You don't know the futur... look in the past ;o) So from 1011 AC Almanac, Gareth is this "no one knows of immortal like voice talking to people..." I'll be glade to continue on this but I think I lack knowledge about what's been done with him (I'm still lokking around for more information on this Gareth). But for the apparition in the Nucleus cave, I *do* have a problem with it. Why did he waited to the last minute to act? With their supposely infinite knowledge, any OO could have done subtil schems to dodge an ending like this. This ending was meant Aaron Allston has a final blast of glory, thought. Just like the little reunion with all the immortals, a display of power. But I've accepted it in my campaign and now I have to live with it. So could the OO of WoI be the equivalent of the immortal on the watch in Pandius? Or could it be the OO who modified the Mucleus in the fisrt place (he couldn't afford that his conception be wrecked)? And for the case of a fallen OO, what a fallen OO level of power would be? A 36th level immortal? Tharquil's homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/5201 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:19:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A thought on Old Ones - - Håvard_Rønne_Faanes wrote: >I agree with you completely. I think any attampt to describe the Old Ones >will make them less mysterious. And they should be the ultimate mystery. >Of this reason I dont like the ending of WotI. Or, at least I dont like >some of the interpretations of what happened there. Thats why I think that that creature no longer is an Old One, but perhaps a fallen Old One >who now uses the name Gareth.... Ok, you did make me search for that Gareth! (You see I'm not familiar with what lies after 1010 AC because I launched my campaign at the blackmoorian era to fill lack of information I haved on that futur. You don't know the futur... look in the past ;o) So from 1011 AC Almanac, Gareth is this "no one knows of immortal like voice talking to people..." I'll be glade to continue on this but I think I lack knowledge about what's been done with him (I'm still lokking around for more information on this Gareth). But for the apparition in the Nucleus cave, I *do* have a problem with it. Why did he waited to the last minute to act? With their supposely infinite knowledge, any OO could have done subtil schems to dodge an ending like this. This ending was meant Aaron Allston has a final blast of glory, thought. Just like the little reunion with all the immortals, a display of power. But I've accepted it in my campaign and now I have to live with it. So could the OO of WoI be the equivalent of the immortal on the watch in Pandius? Or could it be the OO who modified the Mucleus in the fisrt place (he couldn't afford that his conception be wrecked)? And for the case of a fallen OO, what a fallen OO level of power would be? A 36th level immortal? Tharquil's homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/ _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 20:47:47 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 4 : Gareth = another Entropic In a message dated 98-05-20 22:26:52 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >Well, I'm looking at it as if its natural for sentient life to end which iis entropy's purpose. Without it, there would be no death. Doesn't mean no aging but you'd just get to where you weren't able to care for yourself. Pain is all that a undying person has so entropy is a release and probably welcomed. Much depends on the global situation. An overall victory by Entropy must be avoided at all costs -- it would mean the extinction of all sentient life. The situtation you describe would occur only if the Sphere of Entropy were severely weakened or even eliminated. In my opinion, only if Entropy were weakened to the point of being in danger of total loss would it be "good" to support the cause of Entropy. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 20:48:04 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals In a message dated 98-05-20 22:11:36 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >I'm not sure what examples the Complete Priest's Handbook has. That book defines Clerics in terms of combat ability, spheres of spell access, and granted powers and tries to balance them accordingly -- it even has rules for creating your own specialty priests. Where it fails is that it only counts numbers of spheres for major or minor spell access - -- unlike the Player's Option books, it does not assign different values to the different spheres. Now if you use Skills&Powers and/or Spells&Magic to design your specialty priest classes, you may create more viable options -- but I have not investigated the possibilities in much detail, so there may well be some problems that I have not yet found. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 20:48:09 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara In a message dated 98-05-20 19:01:33 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >Interesting. I had no idea was thought to be a Viking lord. I would assume their are other exchanges besides religion (I see Al-kalim's faith spreading better that the Northern Immortals) but that's where I get stumped at. The Aztec deity Quetzalcoatl was described as being fair skinned and light haired -- thus the conquest of Mexico by Cortes was made easier, even though he did explicitly deny to the natives that he was a pagan god. The source of this description of Quetzalcoatl remains a mystery to this day. Maybe this legend was based on an early Norse exploerer who somehow found his way to Mexico? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:27:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta & Lupins >It is one of the defining elements of fantasy that racial characteristics work. Orcs are mean, goblins are stupid, elves are graceful, dwarves are stubborn. Most good fantasy novels at least break with the stereotype on occasion (Gimli befriending Legolas, Tasslehoff experiencing fear..) to show that these aren't just cardboard cutouts and that they are just as multidimensional as people. >Humans are really the only creatures who do not have definite racial traits. This is because humans are at a point of decision. There can be great honor, great stubborness, great evil, and great good from a given human. He is the unpredictable factor. He is the one who makes a choice that decides all fates. I haven't found this theme in most fantasy, sorry. In Tolkien, you have almost all the major roles played by non-humans, from Bilbo to Gandalf to Frodo to Thorin to.. In Memory, Sorrow and Thorn, Aditu, Binabik and Jiriki all play key roles. In the Prydain Chronicles, Gurgi and Doli are rather vital to the theme. And of course you have fantasy wherein humans play minor or nonexistant roles (Yes, the Dragonlance books are generally poorly written, but check out Dan Parkinson's Dwarven Nations series). >The individual human races do not ascribe to specific traits whereas the nonhuman races do. While I hate the idea of human 'races' seeing as how in the real Earth we only have one (to me, it's like having three 'genders' or something like that..diverging from all known truths, something fantasy rarely does with humans..many changes are truly superficial (magic or like powers)), you contradict a point you made earlier in regards to Eddings. Robert Jordan, LE Modesitt Jr and many other writers fit into the several human races-with-specific-traits characteristics. Aiel are easily distinguishable from Domani which are distinguishable from Tairens. It goes beyond a typical view of different human cultures. >The great strength of humans is that they can choose to follow their own way, apart from any national/racial boundary. Elves, dwarves and halflings are more elemental. Dwarves are tied to the earth and exhibit traits that are considered more earthy and mountainous (stubborn, slow). Elves are tied to the woodlands and exhibit traits that are appropriate (magical, quick, flighty). Halflings belong to the hills and farmlands and enjoy their comforts. Most of these traits are not from fantasy lit, but from RPG stereotypes. I think these stereotypes are very useful in an RPG, as they clearly delineate the groups, but you seemed to be arguing from a literature standpoint - find me these kind of traits on a widescale basis in fantasy lit and I'll concede. >I see it as completely appropriate that rakasta and lupin exhibit cat and dog traits. One of these traits is that they are naturally annoyed with Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:08:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #340 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com >each other. Rakasta don't tend to run up trees though, so the Lupin have learned not to press the issue too violently. Definite agreement here, especially since this is an RPG setting and not in a novel wherein characters require multiple dimensions and not simple one-D overviews in the source info, leaving the DM room to work. This earth is a sacred trust. To turn away from G-d's creation, to despoil that creation, is to violate any sense of spirituality. - Paul Tsongas, 1995 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 20:33:18 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 4 : Gareth = another Entropic Kaviyd wrote: >Much depends on the global situation. An overall victory by Entropy must be avoided at all costs -- it would mean the extinction of all sentient life. The situtation you describe would occur only if the Sphere of Entropy were severely weakened or even eliminated. In my opinion, only if Entropy were weakened to the point of being in danger of total loss would it be "good" to support the cause of Entropy. The way I see things is that it is Entropy's duty to try and end creation. But Entropy is also the creator. It's a cycle. From nothingness the universe came and to nothingness is it returned. Entropy is that nothingness. It's natural for it to seek to overwhelm the other spheres so the universe can be reborned. The old saying that death begins at birth sums up Entropy's purpose to me. It's no more good or evil than matter or energy. But it does have a place in the grand scheme. You could have good entropics believing that the world needs to be reborn to reclaim the lost golden age. Evil entropics could only see the chance to gain personal power as Entropy is destined to control all but they don't consider past the day after much. A victory by Entropy doesn't just mean the end of all sentient life, it means the end of everything. There are not other spheres that could keep the cycle going. And it is impossible to ever remove entropy completely. If, in the cycle, energy were to everwhelm all other spheres, there would be nothing to feed it and it would succumb to entropy. Entropy is the only sphere that is enternal with the possible exception of matter. Matter and entropy are the only two spheres I consider completely lawful. You could even go on to say that they oppose each other but neither is good or evil. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 19:21:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 4 : Gareth = another Entropic - ---Galwylin wrote: >The way I see things is that it is Entropy's duty to try and end creation. But Entropy is also the creator. It's a cycle. From nothingness the universe came and to nothingness is it returned. Entropy is that nothingness. It's natural for it to seek to overwhelm the other spheres so the universe can be reborned. The old saying that >death begins at birth sums up Entropy's purpose to me. It's no more good or evil than matter or energy. But it does have a place in the grand scheme. You could have good entropics believing that the world needs to be reborn to reclaim the lost golden age. Evil entropics could >only see the chance to gain personal power as Entropy is destined to control all but they don't consider past the day after much. >A victory by Entropy doesn't just mean the end of all sentient life, it >means the end of everything. There are not other spheres that could keep the cycle going. And it is impossible to ever remove entropy completely. If, in the cycle, energy were to everwhelm all other spheres, there would be nothing to feed it and it would succumb to entropy. Entropy is the only sphere that is enternal with the possible >exception of matter. Matter and entropy are the only two spheres I consider completely lawful. You could even go on to say that they oppose each other but neither is good or evil. If I take a look in PC1: Tall tales of the Wee Folk, it's said that there is a Great Circle of the Multiverse. For now, in this Great Circle, were in a pass where Entropy (Death) is a lone sphere and where the four other spheres bring Life. But eventually, in this Great Circle, Entropy should win and effectively defeat the other spheres. At this time, the Great Circle would get into is second phase (like a pendulum). The Entropy split into four spheres (Matter, Energy, Time and Tought) and fight against the ex four sphere that have regroup into a unique sphere... Life. In this phase of the Circle, Chaos is what everything aspire to, just like we aspire to Order. But Life is fighting and, enventualy, wins. The fact that the NoS is now set on Entropy should just, like Bruce said, in the long run speed the upcoming of the victory of Entropy... destroying the world as we know it, to revive it in an other way. Scary stuff eh? _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:36:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 4 : Gareth = another Entropic Galwylin pontificated: >A victory by Entropy doesn't just mean the end of all sentient life, it means the end of everything. There are not other spheres that could keep the cycle going. And it is impossible to ever remove entropy completely. If, in the cycle, energy were to everwhelm all other spheres, there would be nothing to feed it and it would succumb to entropy. Entropy is the only sphere that is enternal with the possible exception of matter. Matter and entropy are the only two spheres I consider completely lawful. You could even go on to say that they oppose each other but neither is good or evil. How is entropy lawful? I see them as completely chaoic, but none of the spheres are purely good or evil. In a post I made long ago, I argued in the "great cycle" are basicly conflict between matter and entropy, with the other 3 spheres shifting between the two sides. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:38:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Galwylin pontificated: >I don't think the Northern Reaches and Ylaruam were his problem. I thought it was the Heldennic territories weren't colder than the Reaches. Starting out from Thyatis to Ylaruam it gets very hot. From Ylaruam to the Reaches it gets cold. From the Reaches to the Heldennics it gets warmer? Ylaruam is an oddity that does have an explaination but now the NR needs one too. At least that's what I thought his post said. Yeah, that was basicly what I was tring to said. Thanks. Also, the fact that Alpha is quite a bit farther north than the Northern Reaches, but not that much colder, if any. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:17:29 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 4 : Gareth = another Entropic Shin Chyang Yu wrote: >How is entropy lawful? I see them as completely chaoic, but none of the spheres are purely good or evil. In a post I made long ago, I argued in the "great cycle" are basicly conflict between matter and entropy, with the other 3 spheres shifting between the two sides. In this instance, I associating law with order and entropy always follows a very specific order. Chaos comes into play when Mystarans aren't seeing the whole plan but looking at only a small sample (ie the here and now). I think the conflict between matter and entropy holds well as long as neither are good or evil. They are just trying to occupy the same area. - -- This has been a Galwylin© Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 20:20:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara - ---Shin Chyang Yu wrote: >Galwylin pontificated: >>I don't think the Northern Reaches and Ylaruam were his problem. I thought it was the Heldennic territories weren't colder than the Reaches. Starting out from Thyatis to Ylaruam it gets very hot. From >>Ylaruam to the Reaches it gets cold. From the Reaches to the Heldennics >>it gets warmer? Ylaruam is an oddity that does have an explaination but >>now the NR needs one too. At least that's what I thought his post said. >Yeah, that was basicly what I was tring to said. Thanks. Also, the fact that Alpha is quite a bit farther north than the Northern Reaches, >but not that much colder, if any. You can possibly have an easy answer with currents in the ocean. Exemple, in Canada, Newfoundland (the eastern island) is basically at the same latitude then France, but the climate is defenitly colder... this is because a warm current from south (US east coast) is devied to the east (Europe) by a cold current from north (west of Groenland) wich goes right into the Golf St-Laurent. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 00:04:32 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara At 06:50 PM 5/21/98 -0400, you wrote: >Shin Chyang Yu wrote: >>Ylaruam and Northern Reachs are probably the biggest eye sore in Mystara and bothered me for a long time. I was thinking yesterday, is it possible to switch Heldenn and Northern Reaches around. Therefore, NR will be pushed farthor north, and be more reasonable with its climate. What is now NR would be Heldenn territory, with a more temperate climate. Ylaruam will still be too hot, but that is caused by magic. >Why is this a problem and not a unique feature to be taken advantage of? >>Excellent "I'll be using this in my campaign" description snipped<< Good description and good point! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 00:50:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Dominique Rivard pontificated: >You can possibly have an easy answer with currents in the ocean. I thought of that. But it would be one wacky current and it adds another variable that will affects the surrending regions. Then again, it is a fantasy world, and maybe I'm thinking too much on this. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 01:40:21 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: [MYSTARA] - Seafaring Dwarves (was Rakasta & Lupins) In a message dated 98-05-19 09:27:15 EDT, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >Or a culture of seafaring Dwarves..... I don't recall any specifically Dwarven cultures of seafarers, but I do recall them being part of various seafaring cultures -- Minrothad and the Savage Baronies are the most obvious examples that come to mind. But that image of Dwarven sailors has inspired me -- maybe somewhere on Mystara there are floating islands inhabited solely by Dwarves who spend their entire lives at sea and would feel very out of place if they were ever out of sight of the ocean.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 18:11:42 +1000 From: shawn@leme.anu.edu.au (stan) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Is the Almanac on a Web-site? >From: Pierre Savoie WWWell, I'm done. Read through the whole thing in two days, and formatted it, too. Further proof that I do not, in fact, have anything resembling a life. >Sheesh, Glen. You must live in a small, boring Ontario town. Here in the Big Smoke there are too many distractions. IIs this stuff posted permanently on a Web-page? I had to delete it all because it blew out my message-quota when it was transmitted on Sunday, but someday I may want to have a look at it "all". Yes. I'm uploading it onto my website as I write. If you didn't know Pierre my site (the address in my signature down there) collects all the stuff that comes onto the mailing list. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:01:13 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Speaking of all this CoK vs CoT stuff has got me thinking about Bellayne... Historically Good Queen Bess (ie Queen Catherine of Bellayne) was a Protestant queen with a mainly Catholic population. The reason she helped the Low Countries out against Spain was mainly to unite the people (the English Catholics hated their Protestant Queen, but they hated the Spanish even more). The point being that in Elizabethan England religion was a major issue. I was wondering... IMC Pax Bellanica (Tarastia) is the official major religion of Bellayne (patron of Leminster) , but there are many others. Kagyar is supposed to be a foreign Immortal and is worshipped Up North in Penwick. Perhaps there is a dwarven Mary Queen of Scots up there! :) I know, its a major ripoff of history. But I think the Savage Coast is a sort of anachronism anyway - having people like Sir John of the Wain around is part of the settings charm. Well, I like it, anyway... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:10:48 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara >You can possibly have an easy answer with currents in the ocean. Exemple, in Canada, Newfoundland (the eastern island) is basically at the same latitude then France, but the climate is defenitly colder... this is because a warm current from south (US east coast) is devied to the east (Europe) by a cold current from north (west of Groenland) wich goes right into the Golf St-Laurent. Hmm, I dont know about that. Thats the Gulf Stream your talking about, and its the reason why the weather in western England and Ireland is so wet (hot air coming off the sea, goes over land, cools down and releases the water...). Warm and wet is what the Gulf Stream does. Ylaraum naturally is not a desert. Its supposed to be a lush, fertile plain - at least it was until the Nithians got to it. (Theyve got a lot to answer for, they have...). IMO there is probably still a connection to the Plane of Fire as a result of ancient Nithian spells there (sort of a variant of the Red Curse, I suppose). There are probably a lot of ancient Nithian monoliths and pyramids dotted around (or under) the Ylari desert, and it is these that are responsible for energy leaking from the Plane of Fire. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #340 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, May 22 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 341 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 4 : Gareth = another Entropic Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac [MYSTARA] - Another NPC [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.2 Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of Mystara [MYSTARA] - MODULE X13, Crown of Ancient Glory ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 07:12:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara - ---Rob wrote: >>You can possibly have an easy answer with currents in the ocean. Exemple, in Canada, Newfoundland (the eastern island) is basically at the same latitude then France, but the climate is defenitly colder... this is because a warm current from south (US east coast) is devied to >>the east (Europe) by a cold current from north (west of Groenland) wich goes right into the Golf St-Laurent. >Hmm, I dont know about that. Thats the Gulf Stream your talking about, and >its the reason why the weather in western England and Ireland is so wet (hot >air coming off the sea, goes over land, cools down and releases the water...). Warm and wet is what the Gulf Stream does. >Ylaraum naturally is not a desert. Its supposed to be a lush, fertile plain - at least it was until the Nithians got to it. (Theyve got a lot to >answer for, they have...). IMO there is probably still a connection to the >Plane of Fire as a result of ancient Nithian spells there (sort of a variant >of the Red Curse, I suppose). There are probably a lot of ancient Nithian >monoliths and pyramids dotted around (or under) the Ylari desert, and it is >these that are responsible for energy leaking from the Plane of Fire. That was not the effect of the gulf stream that I was refering to. I was speaking of a cold current that would affect the NR. Anyway here's another solution, interconnecting the NR and the desert. When they destroyed Nithia, the immortals (Ilsundal in peculiar) changed the weather pattern. Could They also linked NR and the would-be desert in a way that extra heat from NR is expelled in the desert, much a refrigerator? A difference of 10 degres (celsius) would make a 20 difference between Nr and Ylaruam... _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:24:41 CEST From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 4 : Gareth = another Entropic >Talitha's field is stealing and evil thieves. Which certainly fits, since >Gareth is stealing worshippers from other Immortals. Where's Talitha's power >base, anyway? Yes, Talitha works very well. She especially delights in seeing the others fail/suffer from her thefts, and she could have imagined this plot to steal not something material as a mere thief, but as you say the worshipers of the other Immortals (which include their faith, their support, and their souls once they get into Limbo), and she will delight in seeing the other immortals suffer from this loss and (eventually) fade away because of her move. >Brissard (who is BTW a servant of Talitha). Yes. He could be used as one of those I labelled younger immortals who want to escape from their sponsors' grasp and forge a reputation for themselves. I looked up his description in WotI but now I don't rememeber for sure, isn't his field related to artifacts? Maybe he's aware of the NoS and also has plans to use the spreading cult of Gareth to meddle with the Nucleus. >Ranivorus (he already had a hand in corrupting the Nithians, maybe the Sindhis are next on his agenda). Yes, but it's my interpretation that Thanatos was the mastermind behind the Nithian corruption, and that Ranivorus was more of an executant (though he certainly had a great role in the corruption). Thus I think he's not up for such a plan, unless Thanatos is somehow involved... which brings up the following possibility: Thanatos had the idea but prefers not to put it into effect himself (too dangerous if he's caught) so sets up Ranivorus as his agent. Thus Gareth is Ranivorus, under the guidance of Thanatos, with the duo back like in the good old days of the corruption of Nithia, but this time they hope to slowly corrupt the entire world and not just a single nation... >Yagrai. Not bright enough IMO, would put him with Orcus and co. _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Almanac page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:27:11 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac Well I finally read through the Timeline portion of the Almanac. Aside from good work guys, all I can say is: "Oh my God, they killed......well just about everybody" But seriously, I noticed a great deal of war and death in this one. And I thought the world was supposed to be much more peaceful. Oh well....guess some of my warmongering must of rubbed off on the Almanac Staffers. An ode to Brannart- "Oh Brannart oh Brannart you may really be dead "The deathblow thus came not from without but instead "Came most surprisingly from a little wuss "That person being none other but Angus "So what is a formerlywalking corpse to do "Hope that Angus's destruction was quite subdued "Or one could hope that he simply overlooked "To smash the device that enabled Brannart to cook "Up his Radiance enhanced spells. "But in the end, all may be well "As Brannart may have found his way "To become Immortal on that very day "By becoming detached from his mortal remains "I still wonder Angus survived to rule the domain "If not will become the heir "Remember that Sean is still there "And I will mention G:KoM in this scheme "Just to make DM scream "I also have to wonder "At the discovery down under "Of the imprisoned Sir Bruce in the dungeon "And what weapon does he use, Bludgeon "As in a mace "Oh what a disgrace "For a high level cleric to be captured "By a lich and interred "At least Mary will be glad "Since at Brannart she was mad Ode to Jherek- "So long Jherek it was so much fun "To have an Ethie as one of the Big Guns "Of Glantri. A Nation of bigotted spellcaster "Who think of themselves the masters "Of just about everyone "Oh where to find such fun "First Alphatia sunk beneath the sea "Now the head of the Ethie in Glantri "But now his task is over "Having to constantly Maneuver "To prove himself to his fellow mages "While not receiving any praises "Oh well that is life "At least he is free of strife Ode to Moglai Khan- "Moglai Khan is dead what a shame "The old horseman fell so close to fame "Storming Glantri was his big dream "But that effort was halted in a scream "Emitted by from a hobgoblin soldier "And now the Black Eagle can be bolder "As he gets credit for the kill "That he was stabbed from behind strikes me ill "Though he did manage to cut off "The Arm of that pompass jerk off "Named Jaggar who wanted a war that he got "And almost paid for it by almost getting the snot "Beat out of Glantri. Lsing an arm is bad enough "But possibly losing his princehood is worser stuff "Still I imagine that the Khan would be amused "To see Jaggar's future so confused. "All of which is being initiated by that witch "Dolores. Can anyone say irony is a bitch "So the great Khan is no more "And I imagine Jamuga Khan hit the floor "Upon reading of the untimely departure "Of the man who is in his signature Alex- who will not quit his job to pursue a career in poetry *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:28:48 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Another NPC Hello everyone, As promised earlier this week, here's another NPC. This one is the guy I play as my party's NPC cleric - he gives them a hand in fighting, as well as healing (of course!). As a final note - the stats are legitimate - I did not doctor them up in any way (just to allay suspicion). ************************************* Gerhard von Grauenberg (Level 4 male human cleric of Vanya) STR 17 (18) INT 14 WIS 18 DEX 15 CON 18 CHA 12 Armour Class: 2 (0 vs. the first attack against him if using weapon mastery rules) Hit Points: 31 Alignment: Neutral MV: 60' (20') Height: 6'1" Weight: 195 lbs. Eyes: Green Hair: Brown Skills: Cooking (WIS), Ceremony - Vanya (WIS), Healing (INT), Alertness (DEX), Swimming (STR) Weapon Mastery: Normal Sword (Skilled), Bastard Sword, 1H (Basic) Languages: Thyatian, Heldannic History: Born in the Heldannic town of Grauenberg in AC 980, Gerhard has spent almost his entire life in the Knights. A bright boy, he was sent at the age of four by his parents to the nearest clerical school for a proper education. Although his parents were reasonably well-off, they sent him to the clerical school, instead of a private institution abroad, because they felt he needed a "disciplined upbringing". He studied at Vanyashalle in Thurgau until he was 17, at which time he was formally sworn into the Order as a junior Knight. It was when he was 18 that his faith in the Heldannic Knights began to falter. Ordered to the port town of Kammin to quell unrest, young Gerhard witnessed the brutal suppression of peasants protesting horrid living conditions. For him, Vanya was about glorious conquest and spreading the faith, not oppressing fellow believers. Over the following months, he became disillusioned with how the Knights were being led, and he resolved to leave the Heldannic Territories and serve Vanya in ways he considered to be more honourable. At 19, he left his homeland, vowing never to return until the Church had reformed its ways and served Vanya properly once again. Gerhard's travels have taken him to Alfheim, Darokin, Karameikos, Vestland, and Rockhome. Along the way, he has made a few friends, and a few enemies, too. He had always tried to make a good impression, knowing that, while he disagrees with the Knights' current philosophies, he still represents them to outsiders. He could be encountered in almost any nation of the Known World, and would be more than happy to lend his services to an adventuring party if they do not mind his company. Personality: Gerhard is essentially a fun-loving person, though he rarely shows this to any but his closest friends. He enjoys good music, fine food, and a full tankard, especially if the ale comes from his homeland, content to quietly enjoy the pleasures of life as they present themselves. Although he enjoys a good joke, he does not particularly enjoy being the subject of them himself - even then, his most common reaction is to quietly go red in the face and mutter under his breath. An avid traveller, Gerhard is always eager to meet new people and experience new cultures, even though he does not show his enthusiasm outwardly. He is strongly devoted to Vanya and her causes. In his prayers he is always listening for her voice, privately hoping that one day she will call upon him to perform an heroic deed in her name. While he supports heartily the Patroness of Conquest and War, he remains at odds with the current philosophy of many members of the Heldannic Knights, feeling that they are more interested in oppressing people as opposed to spreading the word and faith of Vanya. As such, he avoids contact with other Knights as often as possible, and he refuses to return to his homeland until political and religious reforms have been carried out. Gerhard is above all a reasonable person. He does not try to convert everyone he meets to his cause, but he will defend his Immortal and his faith should anyone seek to discredit either. As such, he treads a fine line between being a loyal follower of Vanya, and a rogue cleric - a position of which he is very conscious. Equipment Carried: Gerhard carries a red steel normal sword (spoils of an early encounter with some Hulean raiders), as well as two healing potions. He wears banded mail, and carries a normal shield for added protection in battle, and a pair of gauntlets of ogre power. In addition to these items, he also has herbs and bandages for treating injuries, as well as standard iron rations, and other items normally carried by adventurers on the road. Distinguishing Features: The only thing that really sets Gerhard apart from other warriors is the distinctive white tabard of the Heldannic Knights that he wear over his armour, with its large black lion across the front. He also tends to keep his hair rather short, unlike some other warriors. ********* Hope you enjoy! Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 18:02:38 CEST From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.2 Mystara FAQ version 5.2 by Hervé Musseau Q: What is Mystara? A: Mystara is an imaginary world created by TSR as a campaign world for roleplaying games using the rules of Dungeons and Dragons. Q: What is a roleplaying game? A: Roleplaying games are games in which people play the role of imaginary fantastic characters like warriors or wizards and try to complete an adventure under the guidance of a game master. Q: I never heard of Mystara, but I know a setting called the Known World which looks pretty the same. What's the difference? A: Mystara got a name as a world only recently; before that, it was often referred to as the Known World, although Mystara is more than just the Known World. Q: So, what's Mystara? The Known World and what else? A: Mystara is basically composed of 2 main parts, the Outer World and the Hollow World, plus 2 moons, and some other exotic settings. Q: A Hollow World? A: Yes. Mystara, unlike our earth, is hollow, an empty sphere. It has an internal sun that lights the interior world, making it inhabitable. It holds old civilizations that are now extinct on the Outer World, placed there by the Immortals with strong magic preventing them from evolving much or dying away. The only entrances to the Hollow World are through underground passages between the two worlds, and through the holes that stand in place of the north and south poles. Q: And the Outer World? A: The Outer World is mostly like our Earth. It comprises: * the Known World (now called Old World), where the most civilized countries are located, * Alphatia (only before AC 1009), * the Savage Coast and Hule, * the southern continent, called Davania, * the eastern continent, called Skothar. Q: Why is Alphatia part of Mystara only up to AC 1009? A: Because Alphatia, which is a large continent east of the Known World, sank into the ocean in AC 1009, at the end of the major event called Wrath of the Immortals. It is now a floating continent located in the Hollow World. Q: What exactly is Wrath of the Immortals? A: Wrath of the Immortals (or WotI) is a great campaign that TSR published to update the Known World. It deals with the Great War that involves the major countries of Mystara and that was caused by the Immortals to obtain control of the Nucleus of the Spheres, a powerful artifact located under Glantri. At the end of the war, Alphatia sinks, Glantri and Thyatis have suffered dramatically from the conflict and three new powers enter the political scene of Mystara: the Heldannic Territories, the Hagiarchy of Hule and the "revamped" Kingdom of Karameikos. Q: On the continental map published in the Master DM's book, there are some empires I've never read anything about in other products and on the list, like the Empire of Dorphin IV or the Empire of the Great Khan. Do they exist? Where can I find information about these? A: The map in the Master set is wrong, wrong, wrong! In the series of articles written by Bruce Heard in Dragon Magazine, the first in the series (Dragon #153) explains this all. The map was the was released by a very imaginative Thyatian, and wrongly accepted for the truth. There is no Empire of Dorphin IV, no Empire of the Great Khan, etc. Also, as you probably guessed, the size of the Thyatian Empire was largely exagerated Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 12:19:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #341 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com on this map... Q: I've already heard from the Known World, and from the Hollow World too, but never as Mystara. What does all this mean? A: This is because Mystara is a very old world, one of the oldest created by TSR, and, as TSR grew, so did Mystara. All of these product lines are revelant to Mystara: * Mystara, of course, * the Known World and most stuff that were made for D&D (as opposed to AD&D) like these old good modules B and X, or the Gazetteers, * the Hollow World, * Red Steel/the Savage Coast, * Blackmoor. Also, some products bearing the label First Quest are related to Mystara. Q: Blackmoor? I know a Blackmoor, but it's part of Greyhawk, isn't it? A: Blackmoor was, like Greyhawk, the campaign world of one of TSR's founder. It was later placed in both Greyhawk and the Known World (as a past kingdom in the later), effectively making two Blackmoors exist. It seems there is no further relation between the two Blackmoors, however, although some people made the assumption. Q: Where is it located? A: Blackmoor was a techno-magical kingdom that blew itself up a few millenia ago. The event shifted the planet's axis and Blackmoor is now the north pole. Sources are contradictory as to where Blackmoor stands; some place it on Brun, some on Skothar. Arguments in favor of Brun are the position of the Inn Between the Worlds and the Nucleus of the Sphere, and the fact that the Known World stands there; this is the solution proposed in some Gazetteers. Arguments in favor of Skothar are its sort of canonical status, and the feeling that all civilizations should not systamatically come from the Known World; this is the solution proposed in the Hollow World box. Note that, if you consider the Hollow World solution to be the truth in your campaign, the map in the box does have a typo : the names of Blackmoor and Thonia have been reversed (Blackmoor was north of the Empire of Thonia according to all other sources). Bruce Heard's opinion on this matter : << Blackmoor -- the travelling legend. If there were archaeologist on Mystara, they would have a devil of time figuring where the darn place was really located. Officially, it's supposed to be up there by the Thonian Marches. Unfortunately, conflicting info has crept into several products, getting in the way of the Thonian theory. The best thing is to assume evidence of Blackmoor's presence elsewhere is the result of later colonizations and outposts. Other communities were also magically displaced (such as a certain ancient tavern in the Broken Lands of the Known World). Definitely a messy development of the World of Mystara! :) >> So officially the answer is Skothar. Q: Ok, and now what's Red Steel? A: Red Steel is a setting that is part of Mystara (west of the Known World), although it was released as a stand-alone setting. Q: I have a player of the Church of Karameikos, and I whant to give him an Immortal, I suppose that it's a church with many Immortals (like the Greek / Latin church) but in Gaz 1 I dind't find any list of Inmortals... A: These are the immortals of the Church of Karameikos, as told by Bruce Heard in an old Dragon Magazine: Asterius (Eternal of Thought), Leader Kagyar (Eternal of Matter) Ilsundal (Hierarch of Thought) Valerias (Hierarch of Matter) Vanya (Empyreal of Time). Also, although Chardastes is a native Traladaran Immortal, he is venerated through the auspices of the Church of Karameikos, not the Church of Traladara. This is extrapolated from info in B1-9 In Search of Adventure. The Immortals of the Church of Traladara are: Halav Petra Zirchev. Q: You spoke of Immortals, what are they? Are they Gods? A: Mystara has a different pantheon when compared to other D&D settings. Most notably, it has no gods, but beings called Immortals. Immortals are mortals who, through their deeds, have reached a higher status granting them more power than mere mortals. Basically, however, Immortals are not very different from Gods of other settings. Q: Is Jaggar von Drachenfelds the Star Dragon? A: No. According to Bruce Heard's article in Dragon #170 http://www.tsrinc.com/periodicals/dragon/backissues/170jun91/170FromHatchlingTo.txt he became the Star Dragon for a brief period but relinquished the title for absolution. Q: Also you mentionned something about D&D not being AD&D. What does that mean? A: Mystara was the world designed to be used with the rules of D&D (often called OD&D to better distinct it from AD&D and from the generic term D&D which could mean both; OD&D stands for Old D&D or Original D&D). It appeared in the old boxed rules: the Expert box, the Companion box and the Master box. Most of the earlier modules designed for D&D were set in this world. Recently, however, Mystara has been converted to AD&D (along with Red Steel), but many people who play in Mystara do it with the old rules (or their reedition, Rules Cyclopedia). Q: When I read stuff about Mystara I keep seeing acronyms I cannot understand like WotI or PWA. What do they mean? A: There is a list of Mystara relevant acronyms at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Q: I heard that the Mystara line was cancelled. Is this true? A: It is unfortunately true. And Red Steel is cancelled too. Some novels pertaining to Mystara may be released as part of the First Quest line, and modules may be part of the Odyssey line. AFAIK, there is no such products in preparation however, though Wizards of the Coast (which bought TSR) has expressed its willingness to publish material for dead worlds, but never namely mentioned Mystara. Keep faith. Joshuan's Almanach was the last product of Mystara (to be precise the novel "The Black Vessel" has been released after, and to be even more precise it deals with the Savage Coast) and the Savages Baronies the last of Red Steel (except for online exclusives). Q: But I saw in TSR's 97 preview that there would be Red Steel modules released as online exclusive. What does this mean? A: TSR has released these modules for free on its site of MPGN at ftp://ftp.mpgn.com and http://www.tsrinc.com. Q: So, if TSR has dropped the line, how can I get new material for Mystara? A: There are many people on the web who love Mystara and have taken upon themselves to keep Mystara alive (and well alive). There is a mailing list dedicated to Mystara where people discuss together about it, exchanging ideas, points of view, and more. To subscribe, send e-mail to majordomo@mpgn.com. In the body, have the single line: subscribe Mystara-L . It has 224 people, as of end April. Not quite a billion served, but we're getting there. As a comparison, there are 395 people on the Realms list, TSR's flagship world (source : Leroy Van Camp, list admin). There are also the TSR message boards at http://tsronline.wizards.com:80/mb/system/addnewuser.shtml and, according to Jeff Daly and Bruce Heard, Mystara rules there, with our board being second only to the generic DM's board but far more active than any other world-specific board. There are also many pages around the net dedicated to Mystara, sometimes with lots of interesting materials. Some of these pages are organized into a Webring, check http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html for info about the Mystara webring. Now more than ever you should express your views on how Mystara should be brought back at http://cmnwrld.com/forumbin/SaveMystara/ or join the SaveMystara Writer's Group whose goal is to get as many adventures and articles to the periodicals as we can. Q: Where can I find the old messages of the Mystara mailing list? A: The digests are collected at ftp://ftp.mpgn.com/Gaming/ADND/Worlds/Mystara/MailingListArchive/ and the oldest ones (prior to 1998) can be found at ftp://ftp.io.com/pub/mailing-lists/mystara-digest/ However for your convenience the most interesting aricles the list has come up with are collected and sorted on Shawn's page at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/ Q: Where can I find the old messages of the Mystara message board? A: You can't. The messages are neither archived nor collected. If you're interested in a specific message, try asking on either the board or the list, maybe someone did save it. Q: Where can I find a complete list of the material published for Mystara? A: The most complete lists to my knowledge is at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2304/prodlist.html It includes rulebooks and modules published by TSR, Mystara-relevant Judge Guild supplements, a list of various magazine #s that contain adventures, rules or world description pertaining to Mystara, novels, TSR net resources, and Clark Ashton Smith stories related to Averoigne. All of these are ranked according to compatibility with Mystara (explicit, implicit, compatible, etc.) and the type of product (campaign source, rules supplement, adventure, etc.). Q: And where can I buy those products? A: Since the Mystara line is out of print, it is difficult to find them. If you're lucky you can find them in any shop that sells RPG stuff, or buy second-hand books. Some places where you can find Mystara stuff on the web: http://www.dragontrove.com/listing.html http://www.titan-games.com/ http://www.rpgspot.com/main.htm http://members.aol.com/HitPointe/index.htm http://www.eskimo.com/~darkh/ http://www.ida.net/users/groverm/sleeping.dragon/sdh.html http://www.darkharbor.com/darkharbor.html http://www.djhobby.com/catalog/index.html http://www.sagesguild.com/ http://www.crazyegors.com/ the newsgroup rec.games.frp.marketplace. Q: Where can I find the FAQ for the Mystara mailing list? A: Check at http://www.io.com/~oryon/mmlfaq.htm. AFAIK there is no plain text version of this FAQ. _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Almanac page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 18:16:57 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of Mystara Wizzard wrote: <> Right. And when they meddle, it is usually not pleasant for humans.. ;) >Dragons are individualistic/egotistic creatures, they are made to live in solitude, ruling other lesser creatures, IMHO. A draconic society is extremely rare, and where it exists (Norwold) is extremely loose. Their drives are power, lore, richness and hunger (according to Bruce's article), so they're not that different from humans.. ;) ... >A last thought on Dragons and Dragon Rulers: who do you think worship the dragon rulers, or who do you think the DR give their spells to? Draconic clerics..? IMC i think there can be dragons who wield clerical magic instead of wizard spells: those are clearly devoted to the immortal dragons rather then to wizardry. But might there also be mortal clerics of dragon immortals? <> Well, they're not different: basically WotI fleshes out the personality of each Dragon Ruler, while in old Immortal set only the name (Star, Moon, Sun Dragon & Great One) + stats were given, and some info on the Draconian Cluster. What contradicts the info in WotI is the article written by Bruce about Dragons in (sic) Dragon mag. There he wrote (hey i'm not trying to break copyright rules, okay!?): " Those dragons that attain Immortality become guardians, lieutenants of one of the three lesser dragon rulers. If one of these three rulers is ever destroyed, the oldest and most powerful dragon guardian may take his place." Uhmm, while WotI clearly stated that the three DR attained immortality in the normal way ("paths"), in this case Bruce says that a dragon guardian immediately becomes a DR once the previous on dies. Or have i misunderstood that "may become"? I mean, what could prevent him from doing it? Also Bruce says that dragonkind belongs to none of the Spheres of Power. But WotI clearly places the 3 immortal dragons + Great One under the Sphere of Matter IIRC, and frankly i don't really like it. Better to have them not aligned. IMC i have only another immortal creature which is not aligned: the Nightmare Lord, the only immortal who rules the Dimension of Nightmare. This makes them special. Also, i don't remember if Draedens are aligned to any sphere, but i think they shouldn't be as well. <> Again, Bruce in his article clearly states that: " There are very rare cases of dragons attaining Immortality and retaining followers on the Prime Plane. When this happens, the Immortal dragon becomes a Maverick--not really a renegade as far as the Great One is concerned, but nonetheless a pariah that will remain forever out of the great spiritual order of things among dragonkind. A maverick cannot call upon any guardian or any of the rulers for help, but on the other hand is not limited in power among the Immortal hierarchy. Should its following cease on the Prime Plane, a maverick will go dormant. Each maverick must choose one of the Spheres of Power as its ethos." So, this should answer my question about dragon rulers' worshippers: they have none or they would be considered Mavericks. But what if they are mavericks sponsored by the Great One? Well, why should they have the entry for Followers Alignment and Granted Powers if they had none? I think dragon immortals can have followers without problems, even Dragon Rulers. Maybe the maverick is the immortal dragon with HUMAN followers..? As for your question Wizzard, i think dragons can use mortals in their power plays, as pawns, but it is more likely that mortal dragons use them that DR do it, mainly because DR have so many dragon guardians/souls and other dragons under their control that they can dispatch them to do their biddings without involving humans. However, i acknowledge that in some cases DR could ask for mortal (human) help, maybe borrowing followers from other immortals.. Or maybe humans can get caught in dragons' policy and later discover they're in the middle of something bigger than a "simple" draconic quarrel.. IMC the mortal son of Zirchev get caught in a war between chaotic and lawful dragons and when he later died defeating the bad dragon guy, the Great One had the dragons build a tomb in his honor in the Draconian Cluster, where his corpse now lies. Just some thoughts.. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 18:17:54 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - MODULE X13, Crown of Ancient Glory On Fri, 22 Sep 95 Rogers Cadenhead wrote: <> Uhmm.. maybe the fellow is a halfling Duke.. in Vestland.. naaah! ;) Also, the names of the ruling characters in X13 have little Vestlandese flavour IMO. Oh, by the way, if you look at the date of this post, you'll see this is an ANCIENT tome: what can i say? Sorry for the delay, but i wasn't on the list at that time..;) And don't think Rogers is still with us (on the list, i mean: can you confirm this, "Orion" -that means you, Leroy..;)), but oh, well... that's time flowing by! I too think X13 needs major reworkings from the opinions i've heard (i don't have the module personally). PS: DJ Sahlas, you're the oldest member of the MML after its creator, Leroy "Orion" van Camp III.. My compliments! :) PPS: tell me Leroy, is it because of Electric Monk (aka Randir on the RL List) that you don't write so often on this list? ;) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #341 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 15:41:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #342 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com mystara-digest Friday, May 22 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 342 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Unknown Magic Items [MYSTARA] - Master of Hule Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - MODULE X13, Crown of Ancient Glory [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Version of Cortes's Conquest of the Azcan Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Seafaring Dwarves (was Rakasta & Lupins) Re: [MYSTARA] - MODULE X13, Crown of Ancient Glory RE: [MYSTARA] - Religion Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta & Lupins Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons???? Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons (was Night Dragons) [MYSTARA] - An advice about WoI Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Writers' project Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Unknown Magic Items Re: [MYSTARA] - Religion ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 18:18:22 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Unknown Magic Items Hi all! Reading Andrew's famous folks post i noted that two of the magical items listed are completely unknown to me. Can somebody (Andrew?) tell me where they are featured (D&D/AD&D supplements) and what are their properties? The items are: Periapt of Wounds Closure Boccob's Blessed Book Thanx DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 18:20:13 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Master of Hule Hi all! I've got a problem with the Master and his true ID. Well, to be sincere, the problem has always been there, but i normally refuse to handle it. Now however i have decided it's time i ask you what you think of it. Basically, i cannot understand how the first Hosadus (who tricked Wogar into migrating to Sind and Atruaghin thus freeing Hule territory from its yoke back in BC 1270) can be the same person who now, 2200 years later, rules Hule as the Master. Now, consider this: X5, the first supplement detailing the Master, says clearly that Hosadus IS the Master. However, it also says that Hosadus first appeared 400 years BEFORE the current Master. The entry in PWA 2-3 where Hosadus is said to have tricked Wogar is the first and only that placed Hosadus back in BC 1270! No earlier supplement had mentioned anything about a hulean young man by the name of Hosadus who convinced Wogar to leave hule (i checked all gaz and HW!!). Returning to X5, it doesn't really tells the story of Hosadus, but says that it first appeared 400 years before and then left when he was an old wizened man, after building Greatrealm. A month after his departure, a new man came with Hosadus's corpse in a coffin and he was greeted as new ruler: he was the Master (Hosadus's avatar, as explained in X5)! Now, how long can he be ruling Hule then? I guess no less than 100 years, but it could be more (consider that Hosadus was "extremely old" according to X5, but i don't think he was older than 200 years..). So my problem is this: originally X5 was to be played in AC 1200, right? This means the "400 years before" refers to AC800. Now, since it was decided to play it during WotI, then the 400 years reference clearly means that Hosadus appeared in AC 600. In PWA there is a reference of Bozdogan telling the priests that Hosadus had been reincarnated in a man in AC 600 to help huleans drive out the northern barbarians, so this is OK. But then, WHO the heck is the first Hosadus appearing more than 2000 years before?? Could he be the same?? And what are Hosadus's real origins (X5 is very vague, suggesting demons or otherwordly creatures -i suspect Nightmare creatures, since malferas live in Greatrealm- are involved)..? Ideas anyone? PS: also, Hule has more than ONE immortal, according to X5 (there's a room where the clerics go to pray the godS of Hule.. i think Mystaros's list of Hulean Immortals is appropriate for this reason..) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 19:23:21 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac ROFL! *clap clap clap* You should do more of this stuff sometimes! And now, some reasons why Brannart can't be dead: 1.By D&D rules, liches don't need a phylactery. 2.Even by AD&D rules, Brannart is a Radiance lich, so he doesn't necessary have a phylactery. A phylactery is created by a wizard when he is preparing himself for lichdom, which Brannart didn't do. 3.Do you really think he would be so foolish as to keep his phylactery where anyone could find it? It's probably not anywhere near his castle. Any self-respecting mage has a faraway safehold (possibly in a pocket plane), where nobody can get. 4.Even then, any self-respecting archmage has a few clones/simulacrums/other death-escaping spells ready. It's really tough to permanently kill an archmage! Sorry, Brannart just happens to be my second-favorite character in Mystara. :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:14:15 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MODULE X13, Crown of Ancient Glory DM meandered fecklessly... >And don't think Rogers is still with us (on the list, i mean: can you confirm this, "Orion" -that means you, Leroy..;)), but oh, well... that's time flowing by! That handle certainly brings back some memories. And no, I don't think Rogers is on the list any more. Not a real big Mystara fan, if I remember correctly. >PS: DJ Sahlas, you're the oldest member of the MML after its creator, Leroy >"Orion" van Camp III.. My compliments! :) The amusing thing is if you look at the list of subscribers, I am not the first. That's because I have accidently unsubbed myself a time or two in the past (Hey, don't laugh! It is easier to do that you think!) >PPS: tell me Leroy, is it because of Electric Monk (aka Randir on the RL List) that you don't write so often on this list? ;) Hmmm, there are various reasons why I don't post as often as I do (by a long shot), but none of it is connected to Randir. Actually, I am not sure what you mean. Care to elucidate? Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 10:30:33 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Version of Cortes's Conquest of the Azcan >on Thu, 21 May 1998 14:06:37 -0700 (PDT) Dominique Rivard Wrote: ---George Valencia wrote: >>would you wish to do an adventure where a group of Heldannic Knights take the place of the Evil Cortes and his Spanish Army, making some Azcans believe that he's Quetzacoatl returned? >If you intend to do that adventure, think about the immortals of the Azcan (I don't no jack about them, thought), would they let mere mortals play behing their back? The Azcan version of clerics (is it shamans?) won't try to contact their immortals? I don't think that it would be effective if the Heldanners don't have any immortal help. _________________________________________________________ I believe that the Immortals can't directly interfere with the Heldannic, if the HK conquer only one Azcan city. Of course, it would be different if they were to conquer all of the Azcan Empire. I take life with a grain of salt...a slice of lemon, and a shot tequila. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 10:40:33 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara on Thu, 21 May 1998 18:58:06 Daly wrote:^)> AAt 01:35 PM 5/21/98 PDT, you wrote: >>>>on Thu, 21 May 1998 10:36:04 -0500 Galwylin > DDDDDDaly wrote: >>>Maybe somehow get into an Azcan discussion on this? >>>Atruaghin/Quetzacoatl connection? >>would you wish to do an adventure where a group of Heldannic Knights take the place of the Evil Cortes and his Spanish Army, making some Azcans believe that he's Quetzacoatl returned? >Sounds pretty neat! And I presume the Azcans are taking the place of the EVIL Aztecs, right? >; ) Depends on which groups of fanatics you consider evil, the Atzanteotl-worshipping Azcan, or the fanatical Vanya worshipping Heldanners. but that is the original plan. "Mystara Knight" Triton I take life with a grain of salt...a slice of lemon, and a shot tequila. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:00:19 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Seafaring Dwarves (was Rakasta & Lupins) >In a message dated 98-05-19 09:27:15 EDT, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >>Or a culture of seafaring Dwarves..... >I don't recall any specifically Dwarven cultures of seafarers, but I do recall them being part of various seafaring cultures -- Minrothad and the Savage Baronies are the most obvious examples that come to mind. >But that image of Dwarven sailors has inspired me -- maybe somewhere on Mystara there are floating islands inhabited solely by Dwarves who spend their entire lives at sea and would feel very out of place if they were ever out of sight of the ocean.... Wouldn't the Dwarves of Stronghold Island count as Seafaring Dwarve? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:05:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MODULE X13, Crown of Ancient Glory DM pontificated: >PS: DJ Sahlas, you're the oldest member of the MML after its creator, Leroy "Orion" van Camp III.. My compliments! :) How did you find out the length of membership? - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:57:26 +0300 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Religion - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD85C5.A7C50380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable - ---------- From: Kaviyd[SMTP:Kaviyd@aol.com] Sent: =FE=E9=E5=ED =F8=E0=F9=E5=EF 17 =EE=E0=E9 1998=FE 21:07 To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Religion If I were to redesign Ylaruam from scratch, I would probably make = clerics of "Eternal Truth" philosopher clerics dedicated to Law -- they would be granted major access to all priestly spheres except Chaos but would be forbidden to make use of any magic item not dedicated or created by a cleric of Law. =20 Exactly! what a wonderful idea! But we must somehow decide who or what grants power to these priests. is = that the concept of Law itself (and if so is it sentient?) or that it is = a coalition of lawful immortals working together? ohad To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the = line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD85C5.A7C50380 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IigSAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5wQAAAAAAADrAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAFAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAQwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAG15c3RhcmEtbEBNUEdO LkNPTQBTTVRQAG15c3RhcmEtbEBNUEdOLkNPTQAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAA ABMAAABteXN0YXJhLWxATVBHTi5DT00AAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAABUAAAAnbXlz dGFyYS1sQE1QR04uQ09NJwAAAAACAQswAQAAABgAAABTTVRQOk1ZU1RBUkEtTEBNUEdOLkNPTQAD AAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAlotAQSAAQAZAAAAUkU6IFtNWVNUQVJBXSAt IFJlbGlnaW9uAHAHAQWAAwAOAAAAzgcFABYACwA5ABoABQBTAQEggAMADgAAAM4HBQAWAAsANAA1 AAUAaQEBCYABACEAAAAwQTREQzc3MTY2RjFEMTExQTc3QjQ0NDU1MzU0MDAwMADYBgEDkAYAtAUA ABMAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AGCCUqRfhb0B HgBwAAEAAAAZAAAAUkU6IFtNWVNUQVJBXSAtIFJlbGlnaW9uAAAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG9hV+k SSWCpyLxZxHRp3tERVNUAAAAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAVAAAAb2hhZHNo bUBpbnRlci5uZXQuaWwAAAAAAwAGEACf+w0DAAcQjgIAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAC0tLS0tLS0tLS1G Uk9NOktBVklZRFNNVFA6S0FWSVlEQEFPTENPTVNFTlQ6/unl7fjg+eXvMTfu4OkxOTk4/jIxOjA3 VE86TVlTVEFSQS1MQE1QR05DT01TVUJKRUNUOlJFOk0AAAAAAgEJEAEAAAAqBAAAJgQAACwIAABM WkZ1XVbIh/8ACgEPAhUCqAXrAoMAUANUCQIAY2gKwHNldDL1AAAqAuFhB4AGAAbDAoDsTVQSpwHx MgPGBxMCg+IzAgBiaWQAoAPUEXc4MTc3EhgUpQcTIChISGViCXB3KQKDNC8VXxZmD88CADUUL2Y2 cwPGGt9mNxk/Gk8QWDjvHu8Wbxd/GIV9CoAIzwnZ4jsmLzI1NQKACoENscELYG5nMTAzFUALA8hs dHIKsVxxJhALVK8p8RGQG9QMAWMAQCAKhYMKiyn1bGkxODAC0eBpLTE0NA3wKmEM0FcuYyqbHSIx HSBwA2B0+wWQBUAtMRcKhy9vHSAMMHUwlkYDYToyHzBLDIIgAEthdml5ZFtTSRMwUDo2lEBhBvAu +QWgbV0xvzLPMNIGYAIw3zRfNW82cAtFACBsKyEpFUce0R7RPBsnZmU/gGXuOT/BG/A/0GQ/ciGg P9DnDfA/kD/2ZiAjED9xCeBnQNQ/4EHQOTlAwT+gIOAyMTowNzhPOV8w0hxUbzrvO/82cG15cwEB kHJhLWxATVDAR04uQ09NQ89E3/E6Y3ViajDRRk9HXzZwBFJlTHBbTVlTVHBBUkFdMQBOoS3AZ85p AiAsHy0qMzYukyqfiwwBMJZJQcBJIHcEkPESkHRvICYxB5BP4AOgUlkLYHJ1EnAgA1IgaQTxYXQR kCxUUghgbEtAcDCRYgGgbHlIcGGSaxKQY2wGcWNzCoVyb0HAIkUwwASgGCFUUVXAdGgiV2BoAxBv 3HNvWmAEkFhGIA2wIfDOY1aQQGFU0UxhB+AxEM9UwFrgV+BXFGJlCoUJwLcAcFwCAMBqBbEA0GMH kP8EIFTRB0ADIDCQCJBIoFfRZnNa0geRZXhfIAUxQ78RoFqgXYBaEF0uAhByIdHvDbADoFTRWAN1 EdBZIgBwY1fiT/BjIGkwwFXwbq8wsFuZBbEFAGVb82JX4J5hCoVYVFkiXHEuIFCfsyovKzxFeADQ YDEhVHCrEaAFQGFXAW4EgWZXMPNlEA2wYSFov1G/an8r8PZCYdISkG1kEAVAWrAHgPxobwfgBYFt QWwhVOAFsfdsM14jBCBwcfBa8VTRXOH7ZCFf5HNogAQAXNFsUVzhv1hAAiBhE2gkZRER0GxBwP4o AHBAcAaQcZF1MmUgVlDnOrEIkAIwPylmQnVzeEH/dUFsgAWgB0BlIFABWSILYPp3bQNtBGAAIAdA BCBXENRyawuAZ1TBZxHgWuHqP1A8bxGgZFA+b39TmP9GIGQAAIBMEATyXZBWBFog/3VBLcBxcgnw XoIDEWOTXsHCZANwb0BtcFVgN/JbVHBlIGh1sy3Abl2mJ3uBGkiHJ17wdVISkAbgZC9X4FkxdcIH Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 15:41:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #342 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com gXNk0GUu/36vKyIhoVN6bZ9ur2+7GSALiv0lUQCPsAAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAQAAAEAABzDgDNcB X4W9AUAACDDgDNcBX4W9AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAAKMk= - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD85C5.A7C50380-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:14:53 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rakasta & Lupins << > Is it like dwarves and goblins? Alfheim elves and Shadowelves? Glantrians aand clerics? More like Dwarves and Gnomes. Callarri Elves and Hin. Alphatians and Aeromancers. 3:)> >> Probably like cats and dogs... :-) Jamuga Khan "And where are the horse-like humanoids?" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:14:53 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - dragons???? << Is anybody interested in seeing the birth of a new kind of dragon in Mystara, a unique dragon for that..? Sylicon dragon... i have an idea i could share with you.. right Herve? DM >> And most are loiving in "Silicon Valley", right? :-) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:14:54 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara << This can be seen with larger cities on other borders with Ylaruam, take for instance Selenica on the Darokin border, and Biazzan on the Thyatian border. >> AND Tel Akbir! This duchy is a former part of Ylaruam and was conquered by Thyatian legions some centuries ago. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:14:56 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals << Oh no. IMC I gave priests of Ixion no access to healing OR divination. They get mage Elemental Fire, are immune to fire, can do produce flame once per level per day, and get many combat oriented spells. The PCs met an Enduk Ixion priest, and initially slagged her off for not getting healing. >> A fascinating idea! But an idea I will never use. To create different spells for clerics of different immortals makes the thing more realistic, but very difficult. I don't want to do this work, and I've seen it by another DM, but it hadn't convinced me. Only my own, but honest, opinion... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:14:55 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons (was Night Dragons) << How do dragons in Mystara behave ?? >> As they like it? :-) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 20:18:00 +0200 From: Ezio Pignatelli Subject: [MYSTARA] - An advice about WoI I need an advice about WoI. I am running a campaign currently in 1001 AC. I want to include WoI in my campaign. Still, it is clear enough that waiting for the suggested date (spring 1004) for Phase 1 of the adventure would lead my party to too high levels for that adventure, even with adjustments (they already around level 5). Since they are actually aiming to Darokin, I was planning to lead them into phase 1, let them find the mirror shield, then put the adventure sleeping until 1005 (phase 2). Of course, I will adjust the adventure to high levels (making Lord kazakk a Lightning Vampire :)) Do you find any reason not to do that? I do not find any reason to fix the date of phase 1... apart putting it early enough that the character have raised enough levels when the war begins. What do you think about? Any suggestion/idea/improvements from your campaign and experience? - -- Ezio Pignatelli - Dipartimento di Astronomia - Padova Tel: +39-49-8293459 - Fax: +39-49-8759840 mailto:epignat@leda.pd.astro.it http://leda.pd.astro.it/~epignat - -- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:42:56 -0400 From: "Arthur D. Reynolds" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Adam Curtis wrote: >As a newcomer to D&D after playing AD&D for years, I can't acclaim its simplified rules enough, especially concerning character classes. Rumors have been flying regarding certain aspects of the upcoming 3rd edition of the AD&D rules. I have it from Gary Gygax that 3rd edition is well underway by WOTC/TSR, and there is an inclination to refer to the new revision as simply "Dungeons and Dragons". There has been great debate in the newsgroups and on the ADND-L listserve as to what changes 3rd edition will contain. The most commonly voiced hope is that 3rd edition will be simpler and more streamlined. >I originally thought kits were a step forward in AD&D, but their attempt to synthesize classes have turned the already out-of-control multiclassing system into chaos. Personally as a former DM of Forgotten Realms campaigns, it drove me nuts keeping track of multiclass rules and the special benefits/hindrances of charaters like collectors (usually elven fighter/mage/thiefs) and vindicators (dwarf fighter/clerics). Kits seemed like a good idea in the very beginning, but have long since run amok. I like certain aspects of the S&P book regarding NWP rules and class oriented powers. If this system is streamlined a bit, it could make the notion of kits obsolete. >Another quip I have with AD&D is its level limit rules. No intelligent being, especially one that lives for hundreds and hundreds of years, really would have something like level limits. Logic dictates that someone whose prime of life is longer will usually have the greater opportunity to advance farther in a chosen profession. By such an assertion, elves would rule the world. I know there are optional rules to exceed level limits, but comparitively few people use them. Here is another common complaint regarding AD&D, and it's one I agree with. These limitations were originally imposed to help maintain a balance in the game rules. Several attempts have been made to explain the limitations logically, but this task is nearly impossible. I did away with level limits in my campaign long ago, but I have made other changes to maintain the balance. >D&D employed a far more sensible system regarding classes in general and demihuman level limitations. >First, there was no such thing as a multiclass (well, shadow elf shamans, but that's about it). Every single class had its own mix of magic, fighting ability, and thievery. Best of all, every class had its own xp scale for advancement. So, for example, instead of having a level 9/10 fighter/mage, you'd have a level 10 elf with only one xp total to keep track of. ><<<>>> >D&D had many other sensible aspects that AD&D has completely lost, such as simple and functional attribute rules . . . >Anyway, I'd strongly urge WotI and TSR to bring back D&D rules. A great way to do it would be to add a section to the PHB and DMG that overviewed the basic rules of D&D. Since there's plenty of overlap between AD&D and D&D aspects, the section would not have to be very long, just long enough to explain its key differences, such as character classes, alignments, ability scores, weapon proficieny (as in D&D classes can use whatever's available to their class without penalty), spellcasting, and fighter combat options. For adventures, probably only one or two pages would need to be added to show the D&D equivalent of NPCs found throughout the adventure. >Any thoughts? I DM a highly modified version of AD&D 2nd edition incorporating some of the PO rules. When I play, however, it is under a DM who is using the rules cyclopedia version of D&D. I agree with most of the above points, and hopefully the 3rd edition of AD&D will incorporate changes along these lines. The Turk >AC *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:44:49 -0400 From: "Arthur D. Reynolds" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Writers' project Daly wrote: >At 09:37 AM 5/21/98 +0200, you wrote: >>>We now have a writers' message board up on Rob Rickard's site. >>Hmm. The address? Or is it not public information? (i.e., you have to join Writer's before). >Exactly. We have concerns about copyright and whatnot. We are just taking commonsense precautions. >But you are welcome to join us! Are you interested? Absolutely! How do I join? Thanks, The Turk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 20:40:59 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals ><< Oh no. IMC I gave priests of Ixion no access to healing OR divination. TThey get mage Elemental Fire, are immune to fire, can do produce flame once >per level per day, and get many combat oriented spells. The PCs met an Enduk Ixion priest, and initially slagged her off for not getting healing. >A fascinating idea! >But an idea I will never use. To create different spells for clerics of different immortals makes the thing more realistic, but very difficult. I don't want to do this work, and I've seen it by another DM, but it hadn't convinced me. >Only my own, but honest, opinion... >Jamuga Khan You just want to see some Tubak priests kicking in Glantrian wizards dont you, Khan! Not a chance, buddy... :) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 20:14:05 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara >That was not the effect of the gulf stream that I was refering to. I was speaking of a cold current that would affect the NR. >Anyway here's another solution, interconnecting the NR and the desert. When they destroyed Nithia, the immortals (Ilsundal in peculiar) changed the weather pattern. Could They also linked NR and the would-be desert in a way that extra heat from NR is expelled in the desert, much a refrigerator? A difference of 10 degres (celsius) would make a 20 difference between Nr and Ylaruam... Sounds better. Perhaps the Nithians already had some sort of backup system in the NR (monoliths in Viking Land) to divert energy from the Plane of Fire. And now their backup is locked in reverse mode, chilling the NR and roasting the desert. Just a far out suggestion Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 20:22:13 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Unknown Magic Items >Periapt of Wounds Closure >Boccob's Blessed Book >Thanx >DM I thought you lot didnt do AD+D... Besides, Boccobs Blessed Book is really a Greyhawk item (well, Boccob is a Greyhawk God anyway). >From the 2nd ed. DMG Boccobs Blessed Book This well made book is always of small size. One will typically be no more than 12 inches tall, 6 inches wide, and 1 inch thick - some are a mere 6 inches in height. All such books are durable, waterproof, iron and silver bound, and locked. The book gains +3 to saving throws (and saves as leather). The pages of the book accept magic spells scribed upon them, and the book can contain upto 45 spells of any level. Thus the book is highly prized by wizards of all sorts as a travelling spellbook. Periapt of Wound Closure This magical stone looks exactly the same as the others of this ilk (ie an engraved gemstone). The person possessing it need never fear open, bleeding wounds because the periapt prevents them. In addition, the periapt doubles the rate of natural healing, or allows the normal healing of wounds that would not do so normally. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 20:11:46 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Religion Exactly! what a wonderful idea! But we must somehow decide who or what grants power to these priests. is that the concept of Law itself (and if so is it sentient?) or that it is a coalition of lawful immortals working together? ohad I dont know... I use philosophers a lot IMC (the CoK doesnt have any Immortal patrons IMC). I like the Shaman book - and I like the idea that belief itself has power. You dont need an Immortal necessarily - you just need to get enough people to believe. Its a Force more than a Deity (Complete Priest ...). Of course, this isnt exactly going to endear the new faith to the Immortals - they arent going to want religions not based around them, after all. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #342 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, May 23 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 343 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - An advice about WoI Re: [MYSTARA] - Seafaring Dwarves (was Rakasta & Lupins) Re: [MYSTARA] - An advice about WoI Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac [MYSTARA] - Site update [MYSTARA] - Site update Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - Unknown Magic Items [MYSTARA] - Html version of almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - MODULE X13, Crown of Ancient Glory Re: [MYSTARA] - Master of Hule Re: [MYSTARA] - Html version of almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - Master of Hule Re: [MYSTARA] - An advice about WoI Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac [MYSTARA] - From Micheal Roy Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 4 : Gareth = another Entropic ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 15:39:53 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac At 11:27 AM 5/22/98 EDT, you wrote: >>poetry SNIPPED<< >Alex- >who will not quit his job >to pursue a career in poetry I want to congratulate you! I thought that was some awesome versing! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 20:24:35 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac >ROFL! *clap clap clap* >You should do more of this stuff sometimes! >And now, some reasons why Brannart can't be dead: 1.By D&D rules, liches don't need a phylactery. 2.Even by AD&D rules, Brannart is a Radiance lich, so he doesn't necessary have a phylactery. A phylactery is created by a wizard when he is preparing himself for lichdom, which Brannart didn't do. 3.Do you really think he would be so foolish as to keep his phylactery where >anyone could find it? It's probably not anywhere near his castle. Any self-respecting mage has a faraway safehold (possibly in a pocket plane), where nobody can get. >4.Even then, any self-respecting archmage has a few clones/simulacrums/other >death-escaping spells ready. It's really tough to permanently kill an archmage! >Sorry, Brannart just happens to be my second-favorite character in Mystara. :) me too... One word - contingency (even more powerful in D+D than AD+D). Another word - wish. Brannart, like the Ancient Mighty Empire of Alphatia, will return... :) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 20:36:33 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals ><< Oh no. IMC I gave priests of Ixion no access to healing OR divination. TThey get mage Elemental Fire, are immune to fire, can do produce flame once >per level per day, and get many combat oriented spells. The PCs met an Enduk Ixion priest, and initially slagged her off for not getting healing. >A fascinating idea! >But an idea I will never use. To create different spells for clerics of different immortals makes the thing more realistic, but very difficult. I don't want to do this work, and I've seen it by another DM, but it hadn't convinced me. >Only my own, but honest, opinion... >Jamuga Khan Fancy a huge list... lol Well, to be honest, i have nothing more than already exists on the Net. With a few additions for Ixion, Vanya, Thanatos and Tarastia (because they were used the most). Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 20:38:42 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - An advice about WoI >I need an advice about WoI. >I am running a campaign currently in 1001 AC. I want to include WoI in my campaign. Still, it is clear enough that waiting for the suggested date (spring 1004) for Phase 1 of the adventure would lead my party to too high levels for that adventure, even with adjustments (they already around level 5). Since they are actually aiming to Darokin, I was planning to lead them into phase 1, let them find the mirror shield, then put the adventure sleeping until 1005 (phase 2). Of course, I will adjust the adventure to high levels (making Lord kazakk a Lightning Vampire :)) >Do you find any reason not to do that? I do not find any reason to fix the date of phase 1... apart putting it early enough that the character have raised enough levels when the war begins. >What do you think about? Any suggestion/idea/improvements from your campaign and experience? I had a similar problem IMC, having got hold of WotI just after starting a Red Steel campaign in 1000AC. It isnt really a problem unless the players have read the book. IMC Corran Keep was replaced by Castillo de Tordegena, but hey, the players didnt know that. It is, after all, your campaign world. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:20:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Seafaring Dwarves (was Rakasta & Lupins) - ---George Valencia wrote: WWouldn't the Dwarves of Stronghold Island count as Seafaring Dwarve? The dwarves of Minrothad are familliar with sea for sure and they do own vessels (war galleys) but they have sea elves to pilot them. They are marines, not sailors. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:52:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - An advice about WoI - ---Ezio Pignatelli wrote: >I need an advice about WoI. >I am running a campaign currently in 1001 AC. I want to include WoI in my campaign. Still, it is clear enough that waiting for the suggested date (spring 1004) for Phase 1 of the adventure would lead my party to too high levels for that adventure, even with adjustments (they already around level 5). Since they are actually aiming to Darokin, I was planning to lead them into phase 1, let them find the mirror shield, then put the adventure sleeping until 1005 (phase 2). Of course, I will adjust the adventure to high levels (making Lord kazakk a Lightning Vampire :)) >Do you find any reason not to do that? I do not find any reason to fix the date of phase 1... apart putting it early enough that the character have raised enough levels when the war begins. >What do you think about? Any suggestion/idea/improvements from your campaign and experience? You know, there's only one DM in you campaign ;o) But from my experience of WoI, it's easier if you stick to the timeline. It's easier to adapt the adventure's level with monsters (but I prefer to adapt it with roleplaying...) then to speed up events and keep track of a different timeline. In all case tought, you should never allow yourself to get a headache with these details. Just let goes the action and have fun (of course)! == - -------------------------------------------- Tharquil's French D&D Homepage at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/5201 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 23:14:12 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac At 19.23 22/05/98 +0300, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >And now, some reasons why Brannart can't be dead: >Sorry, Brannart just happens to be my second-favorite character in Mystara. :) Well, you know, Almanac's correspondants aren't CNN ones :) - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:29:01 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Site update Well, i'm done for the week, and i can tell you that, i have gotten as far the the Savage Coast List of Correspondents, hope to final the geography portion of the Almanac by June 1st, check out my webpage at http://Members.tripod.com/~mktriton/index.html or if you wish to go directly to the almanac try http://members.tripod.com/~mktriton/1015Almanac.html to get to the front page. criticism is welcome, BTW, I modified the Darokin Entry to suite my campaign, and it will updated again, soon. DAROKIN IS A REPUBLIC, only that the poor don't have the Daros to campaign for any position, and campaign Contributions are probably Illegal there. Mystara Knight Triton I take life with a grain of salt...a slice of lemon, and a shot tequila. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:29:00 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Site update Well, i'm done for the week, and i can tell you that, i have gotten as far the the Savage Coast List of Correspondents, hope to final the geography portion of the Almanac by June 1st, check out my webpage at http://Members.tripod.com/~mktriton/index.html or if you wish to go directly to the almanac try http://members.tripod.com/~mktriton/1015Almanac.html to get to the front page. criticism is welcome, BTW, I modified the Darokin Entry to suite my campaign, and it will updated again, soon. DAROKIN IS A REPUBLIC, only that the poor don't have the Daros to campaign for any position, and campaign Contributions are probably Illegal there. Mystara Knight Triton I take life with a grain of salt...a slice of lemon, and a shot tequila. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 19:37:37 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac >>Sorry, Brannart just happens to be my second-favorite character in Mystara. >me too... One word - contingency (even more powerful in D+D than AD+D). Another word - wish. >Brannart, like the Ancient Mighty Empire of Alphatia, will return... Let us also not forget Brannart's paranoia and his particular readiness he had for Angus specifically if such an encounter occured. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 20:51:21 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Unknown Magic Items Try the magic encyclopedias they should have just about all of the OD&D magic items in them, and have most of the ones from AD&D as well, but of course since they were printed more items have been creatted. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 10:52:24 +1000 From: shawn@leme.anu.edu.au (stan) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Html version of almanac My signature didn't seem to get attatched to my previous email about the html version of the almanac. Therefore I'll type it in the body of the message and wait to see if the signature function works any rate. Therefore for a html version of the almanac you can go to http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 Enjoy. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 21:16:37 EDT From: Magesmiley Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MODULE X13, Crown of Ancient Glory Just thought I'd throw in the point that X13 is set in AC 1050 If I remember correctly. - -Mage *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 22:52:31 EDT From: Mystaros Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Master of Hule In a message dated 98-05-22 12:35:17 EDT, Marco wrote: << I've got a problem with the Master and his true ID. Basically, i cannot understand how the first Hosadus (who tricked Wogar into migrating to Sind and Atruaghin thus freeing Hule territory from its yoke back in BC 1270) can be the same person who now, 2200 years later, rules Hule as the Master. Now, consider this: Ideas anyone?>> Well, the way I dealt with it in my campaign is what one can consider to be typically "Hulean". You see, the whole thing is one big LIE... Way back when Wogar was tromping around in Hule, there actually existed a fellow by the name of Hosadus, and he actually formed the original "Great Hule" (related to the modern Hule as the RW Persian Empire of Xerxes the Great is related to modern Iran). He did not, however, actually lie to Wogar and the Beastmen about the Blue Knife (check out my Ancient Hulean History, available on Shawn Stanley's site). But he really existed, and went on to found a great empire and so forth. And then his own priesthood killed him and told the people of Hule that he had "ascended and gone on to join Bozdogan" (half- truth, half-lie). Then Hule went through a whole series of political and religious evolutions and revolutions, but nothing so serious as to destroy completely the Hagiarchy. Until the barbarian invasions of the late 6th and early 7th centuries AC. Hule was really between a rock and a hard place, and they needed a miracle to survive. What they got was the "reincarnated" Hosadus. The "reincarnated" Hosadus IMC is not, in fact, Hosadus, let alone a reincarnation. What he IS is something far more terrible... his real name is Zhigros Khasar, an ancient Taymoran Mummy, follower of Thanatos and ancient ally of Loki (Bozdogan)! Zhigros was one of the most powerful and ancient of the Taymoran Nosferatu that had been converted to the ways of Thanatos in the last century of the Taymoran Empire. He was of the second generation of Nosferatu, and had actually tutored the young mortal Lokar when he had travelled into the Empire in the 22nd century BC. Zhigros ruled one of the westernmost city-states of the Taymoran Empire when he rebelled against the Emperor, lost and was captured, tortured and Mummified (a horifying process for a Nosferatu or Vampire to undergo). His tomb lay undisturbed until 572 AC, when it was discovered by Thyatian explorers in a the mountains of the Isle of Ierendi. Unfortunately, the explorers released Zhigros from his ancient slumber and freed him on the unsuspecting world... Zhigros slowly drew a large number offollowers to his side (some of which were descended, Nosferatu-wise, from his own progeny), and gathered a great army about himself (formed from the bodies of those that opposed him). He nearly succeeded in taking over the entire island, until the Thyatians invaded in 586 AC and put an end to his nascent kingdom (their overt excuse was a claim to the islands as a protectorate; little information about the incident entered the history books, though there are some few legends about the Battle of the Damned still circulating around the isles). Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 13:46:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #343 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 55ac505b7c9b27468d9b656b57e6ffb1 Zhigros himself was nearly destroyed, but the action brought him to the attention of his ancient apprentice, Loki, who knew that he could put Zhigros to good use... as the "reincarnated" Hosadus! And the rest, as they say, is history... though there is one note. Zhigros was terribly, and permanently wounded during the last battle with the Thyatians. Therefore, in order to interact with the world at large, he must Majic Jar into other peoples bodies. He must, however, keep his true body safe, as it in many ways acts as a Liches' phylactery (note that this is a change from the original infoe in X5, in which Hosadus has an "Avatar"). The body that the "Master" inhabits is kept young and vibrant... though Undead, as the body of the "Master" is also a Nosferatu! If the "Avatar" is killed, Zhigros' spirit returns to his ancient body, which through grieviously wounded, is still quite powerful. He will not battle using this body unless he has no other options, as the destruction of this body would result in his permanent death! And as he is now pursuing Immortality with Loki as his Patron, he would not take any chances... So who, then, is the MODERN Hosadus in my campaign? Hosadus, of course, is not the TRUE Hosadus... yet another Lie, and one of the biggest perpetrated in all of Hule's history! << PS: also, Hule has more than ONE immortal, according to X5 (there's a room where the clerics go to pray the godS of Hule.. i think Mystaros's list of Hulean Immortals is appropriate for this reason..)>> DM >> Hope someone finds them useful. Someday I'll get around to finishing the History of the Temple of Chaos... someday... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 20:43:08 PDT From: "Spencer Graham" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Html version of almanac Will there be a zipped version od the AC1015 almanac soon? >Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 10:52:24 +1000 >To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >From: shawn@leme.anu.edu.au (stan) >Subject: [MYSTARA] - Html version of almanac Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >My signature didn't seem to get attatched to my previous email about the >html version of the almanac. Therefore I'll type it in the body of the message and wait to see if the signature function works any rate. Therefore >for a html version of the almanac you can go to http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 Enjoy. >stan >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 01:12:06 EDT From: Mystaros Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Master of Hule And here, for those interested at home, is the quick almanac version of my campaign's "Hosadus"... Hosadus. Master of Great Hule, King of Kings of the Nine Realms. Hosadus is actually Zhigros Khasar, an ancient Taymoran Mummy whose power is only slightly short of that of the Exalted. He is an ancient disciple of Thanatos and now a prospective Immortal under the Patronage of Loki. He ruled the ancient Taymoran city of Khasramun from 2800 through 2128 BC, and was deposed and Mummified after turning from the way of Nyx and the Eternal Emperor and becoming a follower of Thanatos. He was released from his magical prison in 572 AC on the Isle of Ierendi, where he attempted to recreate his kingdom. His kingdom fell and he was nearly destroyed after an invasion by Thyatis in 586 AC, and he was shortly thereafter recruited by Loki to act as the "reincarnated" Hosadus, and rule the empire of Great Hule. He has done so for over four centuries now, and has waxed greatly in power, personally and politically. He is well along the way to completing the Path of the Destroyer in order to reach Immortality in the Sphere of Death. He will let no one and nothing get in his way, but having lived more than a dozen dozen lifetimes he is more than willing to take a long-term approach to his quest. The Master has two forms... his true, ancient body, which now acts as little more than a phylactery for what passes as his soul; and his Avatar, his chosen form, a Nosferatu created by Loki which the Master Magic Jarred into (the form of a Nosferatu was chosen over that of a Vampire due to the necessities of running a mortal kingdom). Should his true form be destroyed the Avatar would immediately disintegrate into stinking, rotting goo. If the Avatar is killed (extremely difficult to accomplish), the True Body will awaken and he will seek to destroy those who killed his Avatar. NOTE: The Master has never truly fully explored his "modern" undead nature as such; he did so for hundreds of years long ages ago during the height of Taymor, and now revels in his current form of quasi-life. He will never overtly use his more spectacular Nosferatu powers unless hard- pressed. He does, however, have his own secret dedicated cult following of Nosferatu, which he uses as a spy and assassin ring throughout the Savage Coast and Known World. The rumors circulating Darokin that the Master imbibes the blood of babes are also, unfortunately, quite true... Avatar of the Master Hair: Black. Eyes: Brown. Height: 6'3". Dusky-skinned; wears black cloak, robes, and ceremonial armor. Combat Notes: AL CE; AC - -3 (+3 or better magic weapon needed to hit); MV 18; Ancient Nosferatu C28; hp 96; THAC0 9; #AT 1 bite or war hammer or spell or special; Dmg 1d4 or 1d4+4 or by spell or special; Save C28; S19 D18 C18 I18 W18 C18; ML16. Possesses all the abilities of an Ancient Nosferatu. Regenerates 4 hit points per round. Magical Items (at hand): plate mail +5, war hammer +3/+5 vs. lawful good, ring of spell turning, amulet of finding, house of Zebulon. He has the treasury of an empire from which to draw any number of scrolls and other minor magical items he may wish to use. True Body of the Master Hair: None. Eyes: Rotted out. Height: 5'7". Badly-scarred mummified body with tattered bandages. Combat Notes: AL CE; AC -4 (+3 or better magic weapons needed to hit; only takes damage from the magical bonus of weapons unless Taymoran in origin; immune to cold and electricity, resistant to fire); MV 15; Taymoran Mummy (RL Eminent-rank Vampire & Fifth-rank Ancient Undead) C28; hp 50 (permanently wounded in past battles); THAC0 7; #AT 1 claw or spell or special; Dmg 3d8 + 2 levels + Disease or spell or special; Save C28; S20 D10 C10 I13 W18 C1; ML20. Possesses all the abilities of an Eminent-rank Vampire AND a fifth-rank Ancient Dead! His touch causes 3d8 damage in addition to a double life- level drain AND a special form of mummy-rot. This mummy-rot causes the afflicted to lose 1 point EACH of Strength, Constitution and Charisma every HOUR until DEAD; only a cure disease spell cast by a 14th level or greater cleric can cure the rot! Afflicted characters will be in convulsions from the moment of onset, which imposes a -2 penalty to all actions and makes natural healing, spellcasting and spell memorization impossible. When a character dies of this rot, he will rise again after three nights as a Bhut under the Master's control.Those slain through life-level drain are immediately returned to unlife as Ju-ju Zombies. Enjoy! If you dare... mwahahahahahahaha! I'm sure your player's won't... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 14:04:20 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - An advice about WoI >Since they are actually aiming to Darokin, I was planning to lead them into phase 1, let them find the mirror shield, then put the adventure sleeping until 1005 (phase 2). Of course, I will adjust That's how I did it. My PCs met Rheddrian already in 1001, and then adventured elsewhere to get to level 10 for the next adventure (~1005). ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 14:08:59 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac >Well, you know, Almanac's correspondants aren't CNN ones :) Oh, and could you tell me who exactly decided to kill off Brannart, so that I know whose favorite character I'm going to kill in the next Almanac? :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 16:16:43 +0200 From: Joshuan Gallidox Subject: [MYSTARA] - From Micheal Roy To the MML members, although you've heard it from all my co-authors by now, I again apologize for the huge amount of mail we've caused you to receive in one day. Unfortunately, it was not a problem we forsaw, but I can garantee that it will NEVER occur again. To respond to a few comments going around on the list at the moment: FIREARMS: The Almanac does not give a "Greyhawk Effect" of forbiding firearms on all of Mystara. It merely states that the SAVAGE COAST SMOKEPOWDER does not work outside of the Savage Coast. Gun Powder or the standard AD&D smokepowder can be used in an Old World campaign if an individual DM so desires. The main reason for this is that AD&D smokepowder varies in price from 300 to 750 gp per charge (unless you happen to know an Arcane who can get you a very good deal of 5 to 10 charges for around 300 gp!). Savage Coast smokepowder, on the otherhand, costs a mere 1 gp per charge. At this cost, it would easily spread throughout the world and even beyond (I could even see the Arcane of Spelljammers coming to Mystara to acquire the stuff!). Also, game balance is important; SC is geared toward firearms, while a PC with an arquebuse in Karameikos has a very big advantage, especially if he only paid 1 gp per shot! Although not necessarily a bad thing, it is stretching "Mystara" as originally intended as a setting (that is a pre-firearms medieval/renaissance). Also, many would probably object to having Arcane and people from other TSR worlds travelling to Mystara just to get smokepowder at such a great deal (when you can sell it for 750 gp - that's 749 gp profit per charge - it makes any distance travelled worthwhile!). Of course, an individual DM could do this is he wanted to for his own campaign, but it's not something I'd try to recommend or force on others (hence it being left out of the Almanac, which we hope is more generic and easily adapted). All this to say, smokepowder/gunpowder can work on Mystara if the DM so wants to; the Almanac just recommend that SAVAGE COAST smokepowder doesn't since it is composed of elements made from the Red Curse, so it should only work in those lands. This keeps the price of smokepowder high in the rest of the world. The article in Dragon #199 still works fine for those who wish to use it... they just can't find cheaper powder from the SC, that's all. Using that very logic, if you DO use smokepowder in the Old World, that's why Thyatis went to the SC for smokepowder: it was cheaper than any gunpowder/smokepowder that is produced in the OW, making firearms economically viable (or so they thought, anyway). Even more importantly, the Mystaran Almanac is not official in any way. If you don't like a part of it, ignore it (this in response to someone who wanted to write to Bruce Heard to see if smokepowder was canon or not). I can garantee that we won't be mentioning smokepowder for the Old World, whether for or against, at all in the future, so if you do add it to your campaign, it won't contradict with anything else we do. Just don't expect to see any NPCs we make use it, that's all! :) Afterthought: Hmmm... maybe SAVAGE COAST smokepowder actually works on Greyhawk where normal smokepowder doesn't... DEATH OF NPCs: Yeah, I guess we did go a bit overboard, but there were reasons for it. Moglai was getting old, as are many NPCs which normally do not have access to magic to become young again. We want to replace them with the next generation, if you will. In Vestland, the king is naming a succesor. For Moglai, we simply believed that dying in battle would be his glorious death he deserves. Jherek we killed because for a battle of that scale, Glantri should not come out unscathed. Here, the original thought was to wipe out Jaggar (dying with Moglai during the final battle), but he seems to be the favored Prince of Glantri (my co-authors wanted to hang me when I suggested it!), so I was forced to keep him alive (although in no condition to wipe out the Ethengarians once and for all after defeating Moglai; an important point made by someone who got an advanced version of our draft (PS: thanks). As for Brannart, a certain sage named "Aleksei Andrievski" (of the MML) made several remarks and comments a few days ago that no wise adventurer should ignore! :) (I wonder what divination magic he used to read my notes...) That leaves the elves. You'd have to ask DM and Fabrizio why those NPCs died specifically, although I personally find it logical seing how they were directly involved in mass combat and war. Death is rather common in these circumstances. Alls it takes is one stray arrow... WAR IN THE OLD WORLD: yeah, it's supposed to be civilized lands, but even they have their good and bad years! :) Wars are uncommon, but not non-existant. AC 1015 seems to be the worse since the Wrath of the Immortals. But by the end of AC 1015, all the big dangers are gone now, so only Rockhome should have trouble next year (you can thank Thar and Psa'gh for that!). The others nations can finally start to rest and recuperate. I would say it's a safe bet that things will finally calm down for the rest of the decade. Then you can get into good old "political" adventures! Glantri comes to mind, somehow... Well, we'd welcome any other comments or questions that you have to give us, so feel free to post them up on the list. It's from these debates that we get our ideas for next year and try to steer things in a direction that most list members will enjoy. Tell us what you like, and just as importantly, tell us what you don't like or would like to see changed! Just as usefull, tell us briefly what YOU think might happen in AC 1016 (hey, even we need ideas now and then!). And don't worry, there will be a final version for you to download on our webpage (no, we won't post it to the MML, although we will let the MML know when it's ready). Michael Roy Co-Author of the Mystaran Almanac mroy@cyberus.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 13:46:18 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 4 : Gareth = another Entropic In a message dated 98-05-20 10:20:59 EDT, solmyr@kolumbus.fi writes: >Talitha's field is stealing and evil thieves. Which certainly fits, since GGareth is stealing worshippers from other Immortals. Where's Talitha's power >base, anyway? I don't know whether this is her main power base, but there is a tribe of orcs on the Orc's Head peninsula that worships her. But given her origins I wouls suspect that she is most popular with Alphatian criminals. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #343 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 19:46:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #344 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: fb28c89d68b1aca0623d1e232ac121ad mystara-digest Saturday, May 23 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 344 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Religion [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara [MYSTARA] - The Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara RE: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - From Micheal Roy [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast NetLogo Contest Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Re: [MYSTARA] - A thought on Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Version of Cortes's Conquest of the Azcan Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - Seafaring Dwarves (was Rakasta & Lupins) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Html version of almanac [MYSTARA] - Robin Hood? Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 13:46:44 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals In a message dated 98-05-21 17:17:46 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >As far as I know, isn't Karameikos the only nation with three different ffaiths? It would really add to the reality of those faiths that its the matters of faith that separate them and not which Immortals are worshipped. In my area, we have quite a few different churches and there are more than one of them believing the others are doing it wrong. Maybe comparing the CoK to Protesants, CoT to Catholics and Cult of Halav to paganism would help you see what I mean though the paganism difference isn't as severe as in the real world? Karameikos is the only nation for which three different faiths have been detailed -- but many other nations surely have similar degrees of religious variety. In particular: Ylaruam: Within the single faith of Eternal Truth are the factions of the Kin and the Preceptors, who disagree on many major points. The Dervishes do not get involved in politics, but they would easily qualify as a third faction. Adapt "Al-Qadim" to this setting and you can add a couple more sects easily. Ierendi: The People's Temple is the dominant religion, but Eternal Truth is a popular minority religion. In this case the Immortals served are clearly different, however. Northern Reaches: The traditional Immortals of Odin, Thor, Frey, Freya, and Hel have differences among themselves -- but by the 11th century other faiths are growing -- those of Forsetta and Protius (the "Spuming Nooga"), the Ethengarian faith of Cretia, and the mysterious Ruthinian faith. Darokin: There is probably no nation with more religious variety than Darokin. The "Church of Darokin" appears to be a minority religion based on philosophy rather than on the faith of any particular Immortals. On the other hand, nearly every Immortal has a following in Darokin, some (such as Hel) under multiple, often deliberately deceptive, guises. And since no Immortal in Darokin has any sort of "official" status, schisms within the followings of various Immortals must be fairly common, and both factions would survive if neither one has clearly turned against the sponsoring Immortal. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 13:46:46 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara In a message dated 98-05-21 17:23:49 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >Well, I'm not up on my Scandinavian history but the Danes I'm speaking oof are the ones that terrorized the coasts of France and England and eventually settled there. I maybe wrong but I'm pretty sure they were Vikings first and later called Danes. I have no idea where these Danish folk come from ;> Actually I don't think there was ever an ethnic group called "Viking" -- that was the term used generally for Scandinavian raiders of the Middle Ages (in their own language, they would "go viking"). These Vikings would have come primarily from what are now the nations of Norway, Sweden, and Denmark. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 13:47:05 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Religion In a message dated 98-05-22 14:20:18 EDT, ohadshm@inter.net.il writes: >But we must somehow decide who or what grants power to these priests. is that the concept of Law itself (and if so is it sentient?) or that it is a coalition of lawful immortals working together? >From the player's point of view I would leave that question unanswered -- while Al-Kalim, Protius, and a few other Immortals would favor and be favored by this faith, they would be careful to deny that they are the source of its power. As to where clerical power comes from -- officially, it comes from the Eternal Truth that forms the basis of the multiverse. This "Eternal Truth" would not only be sentient but all wise, all knowing, all powerful, and of course all just and all merciful. Unofficially, the answer is less certain, as Ylari clerics lose their magic on the Day of Dread just as everybody else does and they seem to have few if any advantages over other clerics. For game purposes I would never have this "Eternal Truth" being make his presence clearly known -- doing so would unambiguously prove that the Ylari are correct in their beliefs, and it would be much better to leave things so that their beliefs are possibly but not certainly true. BTW Ohad -- Could you check the settings on your e-mail program? It is sending out extra binary files with your e-mail text to the list. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 19:58:41 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Almanac Okay, I've read through most of the Almanac and I think it looks pretty good. There are a lot of things happening though, and I don't know if I like all of it. Letting the Ethengars break into Glantri for example (!) But after reading the rest of it it made a pretty good story. And having Hendriks save Drachenfels was a really cool idea! On Sat, 23 May 1998, Joshuan Gallidox wrote: >DEATH OF NPCs: I agree that it was about time. It was hinted in the Gaz that Moglai should die soon and that was in AC 1000! Jherek is not particularily missed. As for Brannart, that kind of surprised me. He probably faked it though, as you Mroy indicated. >WAR IN THE OLD WORLD: yeah, it's supposed to be civilized lands, but even they have their good and bad years! :) Wars are uncommon, but not non-existant. AC 1015 seems to be the worse since the Wrath of the Immortals. But by the end of AC 1015, all the big dangers are gone now, so only Rockhome should have trouble next year (you can thank Thar and Psa'gh for that!). The others nations can finally start to rest and recuperate. I would say it's a safe bet that things will finally calm down for the rest of the decade. Then you can get into good old "political" adventures! Glantri comes to mind, somehow... This sounds good. As someone pointed out earlier skirmioshes between nobles shouldnt be too uncommmon, though the wars we are talking about here are a bit larger than that. I hope that things stablize from now on though. It seems to me that the world will need many years to recover from these conflicts considering all the deaths they have caused. I'm concerned for Rockhome though. Will it become the Mystaran Moria? Hmm, sounds a bit too much like Aengmoor, which is another matter. I dont like this peace process thingy. Fellow elves, rise against the evil Shadowelves who have conquered our forest. Our King tries diplomacy when the only thing that can solve this poroblem is Blood! The Shadowelves have desecrated our sanctuary! Next year in Alfheim Town! (cf: Next year in Jerusalem) Anyway the dwarves will probably become even more isolationist as they try to prevent this from ever happening again. Their relation to some other countries has improved though. I'd love to see more of the Alfheim-Rockhome cooperation in the future too, whenever they restore the forest. What will happen to the Ethengar steppes? Whatabout some nice Heldannic colonization. The Steppes will become good farmlands.... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 20:19:10 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara On Sat, 23 May 1998, Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 98-05-21 17:23:49 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >>Well, I'm not up on my Scandinavian history but the Danes I'm speaking ooof are the ones that terrorized the coasts of France and England and eventually settled there. I maybe wrong but I'm pretty sure they were Vikings first and later called Danes. I have no idea where these Danish folk come from ;> >Actually I don't think there was ever an ethnic group called "Viking" -- that was the term used generally for Scandinavian raiders of the Middle Ages (in their own language, they would "go viking"). These Vikings would have come primarily from what are now the nations of Norway, Sweden, and Denmark. The group Galwylyn (spl) is referring to is probably Norwegians. There was no kingdom called norway before 895, though the region was known as norway long before that. Norwegians first settled in England and Ireland, while the Danish later invaded england. Swedish Viking usually went East to Miklagard(in Russia) or south to Byzantium. There's a bit of historical information for you. I still dont know what Galwilyn mean when he was talking about NR and danes vs Vikings though. How advanced do you want the NR to be? Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 19:59:47 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac OK - I have skimmed it now... (is it my imagination or is it a lot bigger than the previous ones?). Truly Excellent, Brilliant Stuff. I will even forgive the Glantrian wars. :). I thought that Herr Wulf von Klagendorfs performance on Vanyas Day was just brilliant. Whoever wrote that gets my salute, anyway... Cheerz ROB (PS More stuff on Herath and Aranea next time, ok?) (Oh yes, and Bellayne) :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 14:08:59 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >The group Galwylyn (spl) is referring to is probably Norwegians. There was no kingdom called norway before 895, though the region was known as norway long before that. Norwegians first settled in England and Ireland, while the Danish later invaded england. Swedish Viking usually went East to Miklagard(in Russia) or south to Byzantium. There's a bit of historical information for you. Had to get out the history books for this one ;> Okay, from my understanding, Vikings were what Swedes, Danes and Norwegians were called collectively. Now the Norwegians seem to have explored (and raided) the northwestern parts of England (Ireland and Scotland) on to Iceland (and the Americas) around 700 AD. Swedes went toward Russia. The Danes raided the southern English coast, France, Spain and Germany. The Danes occupied parts of England (resulting in a area called Danelaw at the time around 870 AD) and reached a settlement with Charles (the Simple) which created Normandy in France around 911 AD. Those are the Danes I've been talking about ;) >I still dont know what Galwilyn mean when he was talking about NR and danes vs Vikings though. How advanced do you want the NR to be? Its the activities of the Danes around 900 AD that I think the NR should advance to. Ostland can remain in the Viking era as long as they do some raiding along the coast. - -- This has been a Galwylin(c) Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 21:12:37 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Almanac Mewonders if we are really going to hope some peaceful years after "all major menaces are over". I think that AC 1015 has weakened many important countries in Western Brun: 1) Darokin due to Deimos´ maneuvers 2) Glantri-Ethengar with their private wars 3) Ylaruam fighting fiends from the Dead Place 4) Rockhome 5) The elven nations 6) Northern Reaches With the Thyatians getting over a major crisis and the Heldannics facing internal problems I think that only Karameikos has escaped mostly unscathed from the previous biennium. Has everybody forgotten the Master of Hule? I think it is his chance and it also takes me to ask a question: Could not we drive a connection between Synn / Dolores and the Master? Bozdogan promotes chaos and domination (he is an aspect of Loki, after all); Synn works to wreak havoc upon the Known World. Developing this idea could give interesting (and dangerous) possibilities and, most of all, would give a better-drawn perspective of Synn´s tactis. Otherwise, she seems to be a ace-in-the-sleeve character: "Need an evil guy to brew trouble? Just get Synn playing her games". Just a couple of thoughts from a scared pro-Glantrian. Andreas de Skie *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 18:25:25 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - From Micheal Roy >As for Brannart, a certain sage named "Aleksei Andrievski" (of the MML) made several remarks and comments a few days ago that no wise adventurer should ignore! :) (I wonder what divination magic he used to read my notes...) Ah, tis a spell called "Reveal the Mind of the Halfling". A very potent and difficult spell, requiring many extremely rare material components, the list of which would make the component list for Transcend Life Force seem like a grocery shopping list. :) >And don't worry, there will be a final version for you to download on our webpage (no, we won't post it to the MML, although we will let the MML know when it's ready). When will it be available in nicely formatted DOC files? ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 13:56:15 +0000 From: Elton Robb Subject: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast NetLogo Contest Guess what? It's time for the Savage Coast NetLogo Contest. I'm holding the contest, and below this message is the rules of the contest. Enjoy! - Elton Robb Knight of the Crown. >Now that TSR's nice online policy is in effect, TSR has to address the issue of people using TSR logos on their web sites. There is no TSR can Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 19:46:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #344 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: fb28c89d68b1aca0623d1e232ac121ad >allow people outside of TSR/WotC to use their game logos - it is too much of a risk to their ownership of their trademarks. >HOWEVER... >They can definitely encourage netizens to come up with logos of their own to identify specific game lines. What TSR is doing now is setting up contests for people to submit their own ideas/creations for the unofficial net-logo for each of our gameworlds. Whichever is voted the winner will be the one that people can use on the net to identify their stuff as being for that gameworld, without infringing on TSR's trademarked logo. And whoever designs the winning logo gets a cool prize and their logo will become the standard for net-fans of that game line. >It's time for the Savage Coast competition. >Here are the requirements and rules for this little contest: >1. Someone has to volunteer some WWW space to hold the logos. That way, the logos will be publically displayed so people can vote on them. This person will be responsible for collecting the submitted logos (either by email submission or direct uploading to the site). >2. Some impartial person has to be the vote-counter. >3. A deadline has to be set for the competition. Preferably this would be no more than four weeks after the voting WWW site is opened. >4. Logos have to be original works, and can't be too similar to the existing logo for this line (a color change won't do it, for instance). Any submission that TSR deems too similar to the original will be disqualifed (with no penalty to the submitter). >5. Limit of three submissions per person. >6. The winner is the logo with the greatest number of votes. This logo does not need to have at least half of the total number votes, or any other such proportion - just the greatest number of votes. >7. The creator of the winning submission _must_ release his/her submission into the public domain so that anyone can use it without worrying about any copyright infringements on the net-logo. If the winner refuses, that person's submissions will be disqualified, and another vote will be taken. >8. Sean Reynolds of TSR (skreyn@wizards.com) will be taking suggestions for what would be an appropriate prize for the winner - please address them to him in private email with the subject of Savage Coast Prize Suggestion. An appropriate prize would typically be a single TSR product, probably from the game line in question, possibly signed by someone involved on that project. >9. The winning submission will be placed on TSR's site in the /netlogos directory so everyone will know where to find it; from that point on, that will be the common identifying image for Savage Coast fan-pages online (of course, you are in no way _required_ to use this image; if you don't like the winner, make up your own). >10. All nonwinning submissions remain the property of their creators and cannot be used outside of this contest without the user's permission. >11. Sean Reynolds is the final arbiter on any rules interpretations or questions that come up about the contest. >-- >Sean K Reynolds >Designer, TSR Creative Services | skreyn@wizards.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 16:15:57 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format In a message dated 98-05-21 02:19:58 EDT, bing@iccom.com writes: >Weapon specialization >can offset the THAC0 problem (though AD&D fighters can specialize too so that's no gain). That difference may be more significant than you think -- a grand master of any weapon has a truly powerful attack form, one that was not matched in AD&D prior to the "Player's Option" books. And a high level D&D fighter does have a few other advantages over his AD&D counterpart: 1) Better saving throws: In D&D all 36th level characters have saving throws of "2" across the board. AD&D characters never get that, and there are some optional rules that would prevent them from having adjusted saving throws that good. 2) More attacks per round. An AD&D fighter gets a maximum of two attacks per round (2 1/2 as a weapon specialist); a D&D fighter gets up to four. 3) Additional combat options: The D&D has the "smash" ability and various special abilities associated with high levels of weapon mastery that have no AD&D counterparts. So while it takes him a while to get up to that level of ability, a D&D fighter of maximum ability is easily more powerful than an AD&D fighter of level 20. But I would agree that at low levels the AD&D fighter is far more effective than a D&D fighter. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 16:16:22 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A thought on Old Ones In a message dated 98-05-21 16:55:04 EDT, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >I agree with you completely. I think any attampt to describe the Old Ones wwill make them less mysterious. And they should be the ultimate mystery. Of this reason I dont like the ending of WotI. Or, at least I dont like some of the interpretations of what happened there. Thats why I think that that creature no longer is an Old One, but perhaps a fallen Old One who now uses the name Gareth.... That is an intriguing possibility. But there is one way we could have more descriptions of the Old Ones that would not make them any less mysterious - -- if the different descriptions were incompatible! Then we might have some extensive discussions about their nature, with just enough information to suggest that they could be nearly anything. Come to think of it, are we sure that the Old One who appeared at the end of WotI really was an Old One? Maybe some Initiate managed to get his hands on a "wand of controlling Immortals" artifact that still had a couple of charges left in it and decided to have some fun with Ixion and Rad. I bet they will be very annoyed if and when they catch up with him! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 16:16:10 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara In a message dated 98-05-21 14:31:44 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >Trim out a few references to the cold weather and they're managable wwithout being moved. How many such references are there anyway? I am wondering if we might not be inferring a cold climate for the Northern Reaches just from their culture -- maybe that region really is more temperate than most of us imagine. In fact, an examination of the weather charts from the PWA suggests that the Northern Reaches actually have warmer winters than Glantri or Ethengar -- but they also have cooler summers. Maybe the high amount of precipitation mentioned in the remarks "dampens" the temperature variations? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 16:16:13 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Version of Cortes's Conquest of the Azcan In a message dated 98-05-22 13:42:17 EDT, mktriton@hotmail.com writes: >I believe that the Immortals can't directly interfere with the HHeldannic, if the HK conquer only one Azcan city. Of course, it would be different if they were to conquer all of the Azcan Empire. But if they conquer all but one city, they are probably okay.... In any case, this story was already done in the Forgotten Realms "Maztica" setting. But it seems that a similar story would work for Heldanners trying to conquer the Azcans of the Hollow World -- right down to the catastrophe that could be used to save the Azcan culture from complete conquest. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 17:33:21 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac << "And I imagine Jamuga Khan hit the floor "Upon reading of the untimely departure "Of the man who is in his signature >> There are always possibilities... What about .... .... Subutai Khan ? Well known for his widely feared battle cry: "Uh, Uh, charge !!!" In German it sounds really better: "Aeh, Aeh, Attacke !!!" Jamuga Khan "No sig today as the Mighty Khan is baffled about the rumours about the fate of his spiritual brother. Ethenor, personal advisor of the Mighty Khan" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 17:33:24 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Seafaring Dwarves (was Rakasta & Lupins) << But that image of Dwarven sailors has inspired me -- maybe somewhere on Mystara there are floating islands inhabited solely by Dwarves who spend their entire lives at sea and would feel very out of place if they were ever out of sight of the ocean.... >> Are there not fishing dwarves on one (or both) of the Rockhome lakes (Klintest/ Stahl) ? And I'm working on the idea of a viking-like dwarven culture in the Bay of Thorin. A mining city in the mountains and a harbour to ship the goods and ore, plus a fleet to protect all. Jamuga Khan "Ethengar is definitely NOT my only interest in Mystara." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 17:33:26 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara << You can possibly have an easy answer with currents in the ocean. Exemple, in Canada, Newfoundland (the eastern island) is basically at the same latitude then France, but the climate is defenitly colder... this is because a warm current from south (US east coast) is devied to the east (Europe) by a cold current from north (west of Groenland) wich goes right into the Golf St-Laurent. >> And don't forget the possibilities of gates to the elemental plane of Fire like those in Norwold. They might heat Norwold AND Heldann. Jamuga Khan "Gates, gates everywhere! Is this a solid planet or a damn railway station?" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 18:21:10 -0400 From: "Arthur D. Reynolds" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Html version of almanac Hi, I just finished browsing through the 1014 almanac on your site, and enjoyed it immensly. The only problem was that the link to the materials on Caerdwicca was down. Could you send me this info? Thanks in advance, Arthur D. Reynolds *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 00:02:09 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Robin Hood? lol - just a ramble. The Forest Marches of Wyndham, in Bellayne - what do u think of a Robin Hood swashbuckling hero living there (typical NPC : free spirited forester or elite longbow archer...). He could be opposed to Queen Catherines efforts to deforest the Marches. Of course, the Queen would have to unwittingly send a dastardly sheriff to do the heinous deeds (as Queen Catherine can do no wrong). Just a ramble, from someone who has just reread the Lands of the Savage Coast... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 19:44:37 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara In a message dated 98-05-21 17:17:46 EDT, tharquil@yahoo.com writes: >If you intend to do that adventure, think about the immortals of the AAzcan (I don't no jack about them, thought), would they let mere mortals play behing their back? The Azcan version of clerics (is it shamans?) won't try to contact their immortals? I don't think that it would be effective if the Heldanners don't have any immortal help. You would have a three sided conflict in this case: 1) The Azcans would be favored by their patron Immoral Atzanteotl. Then again, maybe not -- perhaps the Azcans have begun to turn against him and he has decided to favor his other followers, the Shattenalfen, who may have their own agenda in a Heldanner/Azcan conflict. 2) The Heldanners could be aided by Vanya, Thanatos, or whoever their Immortal patron is at this time. 3) Finally, Atruaghin (the real "Feathered Serpent") might have something to say about some mere mortal impersonating him. And unlike the Quetzalcoatl of the real world, he would come up with a very effective way to get his message across.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 19:44:46 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format In a message dated 98-05-22 14:51:09 EDT, areynolds@iclub.org writes: >Here is another common complaint regarding AD&D, and it's one I agree with. These limitations were originally imposed to help maintain a balance in the game rules. Several attempts have been made to explain the limitations logically, but this task is nearly impossible. I did away with level limits in my campaign long ago, but I have made other changes to maintain the balance. Okay -- what are some of them? Or are they the ideas already used in the D&D Rules Cyclopedia and its predecessors? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 19:44:48 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format In a message dated 98-05-22 14:51:09 EDT, areynolds@iclub.org writes: >Rumors have been flying regarding certain aspects of the upcoming 3rd edition of the AD&D rules. I have it from Gary Gygax that 3rd edition is well underway by WOTC/TSR, and there is an inclination to refer to the new revision as simply "Dungeons and Dragons". There has been great debate in the newsgroups and on the ADND-L listserve as to what changes 3rd edition will contain. The most commonly voiced hope is that 3rd edition will be simpler and more streamlined. Given the time interval between first and second editions, now would be about the right time to be working on a third edition. And there is no question that the 2d edition game system is now in about the same state of chaos that the 1st edition rules were in prior to release of the 2d edition rules. 2d edition began the process of systematizing the various race and class options, but now it is just as hard as ever to define a properly "balanced" character. Maybe the 3d edition will address these issues better. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #344 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 07:44:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #345 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 6bcc0c91b5762ee531b2da2a6729194a mystara-digest Sunday, May 24 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 345 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara [MYSTARA] - MODULE X13, Crown of Ancient Glory Re: [MYSTARA] - Robin Hood? Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Unknown Magic Items Re: [MYSTARA] - Unknown Magic Items Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - Seafaring Dwarves (was Rakasta & Lupins) Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format [MYSTARA] - Robin Hood Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Re: [MYSTARA] - Brannart and his lichdom Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara [MYSTARA] - 3rd Edition [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac: Brannart Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 4 : Gareth = another Entropic ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 19:44:41 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara In a message dated 98-05-21 19:08:33 EDT, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: >Sounds pretty neat! And I presume the Azcans are taking the place of the EEVIL Aztecs, right? Of course the Heldanners would roll right over the Oltecs as well.... Maybe they would recruit them as allies initally. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 19:44:42 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara In a message dated 98-05-21 19:32:34 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >From the Reaches to the Heldennics >it gets warmer? Actually it looks as though there is very little change in the weather between the Northern Reaches and the Heldannic Territory, going by the PWA temperature charts. If anything, the Heldannic climate is a tad cooler. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 19:44:50 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara In a message dated 98-05-22 01:02:38 EDT, scy2g@watt.seas.virginia.edu writes: >Dominique Rivard pontificated: >>You can possibly have an easy answer with currents in the ocean. >I thought of that. But it would be one wacky current and it adds another variable that will affects the surrending regions. Then again, it is a fantasy world, and maybe I'm thinking too much on this. And there are other complications for fantasy meteorologists to consider: 1) How much were various parts of the world cooled down or otherwise affected by the tremedous amount of dust that the Great Meteor must have thrown into the area? 2) How were the climate and ocean currents affected by the sudden removal of a small continent from the middle of the ocean? >From the available material it would seem that these two catastrophes had little if any effect. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 19:09:54 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Kaviyd wrote: >And there are other complications for fantasy meteorologists to consider: >1) How much were various parts of the world cooled down or otherwise affected by the tremedous amount of dust that the Great Meteor must have thrown into the area? >2) How were the climate and ocean currents affected by the sudden removal of a small continent from the middle of the ocean? >From the available material it would seem that these two catastrophes had little if any effect. Interesting. Care to speculate on what effect the meteor should have had on the surrounding lands and if the sea level would have risen or fallen from the sinking of Alphatia. Tidal waves along the eastern edge of Brun certainly would have caused some disasters. - -- This has been a Galwylin(c) Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 20:18:47 -0400 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: [MYSTARA] - MODULE X13, Crown of Ancient Glory DM pontificated: >PS: DJ Sahlas, you're the oldest member of the MML after its creator, Leroy >"Orion" van Camp III.. My compliments! :) Really? Cool. (I remember the conspiratorial way a few of us on the old rec.frp.games.dnd newsgroup plotted to create a forum for the original and best D&D setting). Unfortunately my saga-spanning campaigns are now a thing of the past. Magesmiley wrote: >Just thought I'd throw in the point that X13 is set in AC 1050 if I remember >correctly. Wasn't it in AC 1150? I thought that was the way the Northern Reaches gazetteer explained the differences between the module and the gazetteer-era. In fact, in playing most of the published adventures, I spread them all over the place: X6 - Quagmire, B5 (set on the site of present day Athenos), X9 - Savage Coast (played back-to-back in the distant past). Threshold, B6, Castle Caldwell, B10, AC2, B11, B12, X12 (played in Karameikos around AC 1000) B8, WotI, B7, DA1-4, CM9 (played in Darokin around AC 1000) X11, X13 (played around 1150) Haunted Keep, B1-4, X1-5, X7, X8, X10 (played in their unmodified form around AC 1200) Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 02:38:15 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Robin Hood? On Sun, 24 May 1998, Rob wrote: >lol - just a ramble. The Forest Marches of Wyndham, in Bellayne - what do u think of a Robin Hood swashbuckling hero living there (typical NPC : free spirited forester or elite longbow archer...). >He could be opposed to Queen Catherines efforts to deforest the Marches. Of course, the Queen would have to unwittingly send a dastardly sheriff to do the heinous deeds (as Queen Catherine can do no wrong). >Just a ramble, from someone who has just reread the Lands of the Savage Coast... I say go for it! :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 02:49:41 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara On Sat, 23 May 1998, Galwylin wrote: >Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >>The group Galwylyn (spl) is referring to is probably Norwegians. There was no kingdom called norway before 895, though the region was known as norway long before that. Norwegians first settled in England and Ireland, while the Danish later invaded england. Swedish Viking usually went East to Miklagard(in Russia) or south to Byzantium. There's a bit of historical information for you. >Had to get out the history books for this one ;> Okay, from my understanding, Vikings were what Swedes, Danes and Norwegians were called collectively. Now the Norwegians seem to have explored (and raided) the northwestern parts of England (Ireland and Scotland) on to Iceland (and the Americas) around 700 AD. Swedes went toward Russia. The Danes raided the southern English coast, France, Spain and Germany. The Danes occupied parts of England (resulting in a area called Danelaw at the time around 870 AD) and reached a settlement with Charles (the Simple) which created Normandy in France around 911 AD. Those are the Danes I've been talking about ;) Oh, those guys! :) >>I still dont know what Galwilyn mean when he was talking about NR and danes vs Vikings though. How advanced do you want the NR to be? >Its the activities of the Danes around 900 AD that I think the NR should advance to. Ostland can remain in the Viking era as long as they do some raiding along the coast. Okay, I follow you. Ive been toying with the idea of having a king unite the NR as one Kingdom. (no federation shit, one king to rule em all) Maybe Ragnar could be up fot the job? If you'vre still got that histroy book around, I was thinking about something along the lines of what Harold Hairfine did in Norway around 895. I think iot said somewhere that even Thyatis wopuld ferar the norsemen if they were ever united... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 17:51:23 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Unknown Magic Items On Fri, 22 May 1998, DM wrote: >Periapt of Wounds Closure >Boccob's Blessed Book Both are in the AD&D 2nd Edition DM's Guide, in the treasures section. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 17:55:03 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Unknown Magic Items On Fri, 22 May 1998, Rob wrote: >I thought you lot didnt do AD+D... Besides, Boccobs Blessed Book is really a Greyhawk item (well, Boccob is a Greyhawk God anyway). We basically decided, since Mystara had been converted to AD&D, that it would be best to stick with those stats for the moment- and the characters that weren't my own (most of the 'noids and Angus) hadn't yet been converted to AD&D like the other NPCs in the almanacs, so that's why I did it. As for Boccob's book, I just used the name since it was familiar- consider it someone elses book- Ssu'Ma's tome, or Rad's Book, or something. I just liked it as a book for Angus to have. :) - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 18:18:36 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Almanac On Sat, 23 May 1998, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >This sounds good. As someone pointed out earlier skirmioshes between nobles shouldnt be too uncommmon, though the wars we are talking about here are a bit larger than that. I hope that things stablize from now on though. It seems to me that the world will need many years to recover from these conflicts considering all the deaths they have caused. As Michael indicated, we are also concerned about the mass warfare, etc that have run rampant since the Great War, but we are hping to get the status quo back to some degree of normalcy in the following years; basically, things got worse before they got better, but they should be getting better soon. Things won't ever be as ordered as they were in the 1000 AC era, I don't think- that might get boring quickly, especially if we all hope to continue doing this year after year. Things should stabilize somewhat soon... at least in the Old World. Which brings up another matter- we'd like to hear from you and get some feedback. Events this past year were mostly generated by us at the Almanac, whereas 1014 had incorporated a lot of ideas from the list. I think we are going to try and expand our operations this year, with more help from lst members, though I'm not exactly sure how. Feedback is good, though. :) >I'm concerned for Rockhome though. Will it become the Mystaran Moria? Hmm, sounds a bit too much like Aengmoor, which is another matter. I dont like this peace process thingy. Fellow elves, rise against the evil Shadowelves who have conquered our forest. Our King tries diplomacy when the only thing that can solve this poroblem is Blood! The Shadowelves have desecrated our sanctuary! Next year in Alfheim Town! (cf: Next year in Jerusalem) I think you'll be surprised by what's in store for Rockhome. By that, though, I don't mean to imply that everything is set in stone. We have a lot of general ideas, and some really long term ones, but again, we are always open to feedback, and a really good idea is certainly going to be heavily considered. :) >What will happen to the Ethengar steppes? Whatabout some nice Heldannic colonization. The Steppes will become good farmlands.... I personally have a lot of ideas about Ethengar, but that is an interesting one I hadn't considered, especially in light of the Heldannic Knights changes this year. Also, if anyone has any thoughts for where I should go with the Great Migration or other goblinoids (and I should have some interesting developments among the Great Crater done soon), or the Isle of Dawn territories in particular, feel free to send them my way. - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 21:48:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Seafaring Dwarves (was Rakasta & Lupins) >>Or a culture of seafaring Dwarves..... >I don't recall any specifically Dwarven cultures of seafarers, but I do Dang-didn't see the first quote when it came out. If someone was looking for a culture of seafaring dwarves, the fourth volume of Margaret Weis+Tracy Hickman's Death Gate Cycle provides such a culture. The series as a whole provides an interesting look at the different 'typical' fantasy races as well as a few others and how they adapt to different settings. Not to mention having a rather nice story behind the series and being well-written. All IMO of course - I know W+H have their critics. Sorry about that non-Mystara post (my 2nd in a row! Eek!) -Mischa This earth is a sacred trust. To turn away from G-d's creation, to despoil that creation, is to violate any sense of spirituality. - Paul Tsongas, 1995 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 22:15:56 -0400 From: "Arthur D. Reynolds" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 98-05-22 14:51:09 EDT, areynolds@iclub.org writes: >>Here is another common complaint regarding AD&D, and it's one I agree with. These limitations were originally imposed to help maintain a balance in the game rules. Several attempts have been made to explain the limitations logically, but this task is nearly impossible. I did away with level limits in my campaign long ago, but I have made other changes to maintain the balance. >Okay -- what are some of them? Or are they the ideas already used in the D&D Rules Cyclopedia and its predecessors? Basically, I allow humans an extra allotment of character points during Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 07:44:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #345 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 6bcc0c91b5762ee531b2da2a6729194a creation. They may purchase extra class powers, NWP skills, or languages with them. IMC, humans are the only race that may multi-class, but any race may become dual classed. These two modifications have balanced my removal of the level limits. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 22:27:15 -0400 From: "Arthur D. Reynolds" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 98-05-22 14:51:09 EDT, areynolds@iclub.org writes: >>Rumors have been flying regarding certain aspects of the upcoming 3rd edition of the AD&D rules. I have it from Gary Gygax that 3rd edition is well underway by WOTC/TSR, and there is an inclination to refer to the new revision as simply "Dungeons and Dragons". There has been great debate in the newsgroups and on the ADND-L listserve as to what changes 3rd edition will contain. The most commonly voiced hope is that 3rd edition will be simpler and more streamlined. >Given the time interval between first and second editions, now would be about the right time to be working on a third edition. And there is no question that the 2d edition game system is now in about the same state of chaos that the 1st edition rules were in prior to release of the 2d edition rules. 2d edition began the process of systematizing the various race and class options, but now it is just as hard as ever to define a properly "balanced" character. Maybe the 3d edition will address these issues better. A step in the right direction is the skills and powers system from the PO books. The rest of these rules are too cumbersome for my tastes, but the skills and powers idea allows the range of diversity provided by kits, but can be contained in 5 or 6 pages instead of 18 handbooks. If you look at the kits themselves, they are basically some additional powers and skills, with some basic roleplaying ideas. Once these are discarded, the system will become much more streamlined in nature. I picked up the core rules CD ROM when it came out, and used the texts there to edit and revise a set of rules to suit my needs. I printed the text when I was finished, and my entire rulebook runs 370 pages, (including all rules for the player, DM, a customized pantheon of 24 deities, and illustrations). All I use to run a game these days is my rulebook and MM. Needless to say, my game runs much more quickly now, and everyone seems to like the new system. The Turk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 20:38:13 +0000 From: Elton Robb Subject: [MYSTARA] - Robin Hood Why not? A Robin Hood type in a Savage Coast campaign for Rolemaster the Standard System would be a Ranger (he sees the wilderness as a home, therefore, his profession would be Ranger), with the Swashbuckler vocational training package and the Forest Guide Lifestyle Package (I think, the Wilderness Companion hasn't been released.) So why not? - Elton Robb A Knight of the Crown. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 22:39:13 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format On Sat, 23 May 1998, Kaviyd wrote: >and class options, but now it is just as hard as ever to define a properly "balanced" character. Maybe the 3d edition will address these issues better. IMHO, oD&D most probably gave the best character balance. In every Gazetteer, there were usually rules to cover certain situations dealing with character races/classes, as well as "kits" Such as the Shadow Elves Shaman, or the Forester, and Rake. These "kits" were naturally restricted to certain areas of the KW, as they could only be taught in those areas. This I think lent balence by warning the DM that these particular traits should be restricted heavily. But then again, oD&D was designed for Mystara, and not really as a general RPG like AD&D. So this technique of balancing play,( so the DM doesn't deal with an army of Hin Masters invading from say, Jen) may not be feasible in 3rd edition. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 04:12:08 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Brannart and his lichdom In a message dated 98-05-16 00:59:22 EDT, Kaviyd writes: << In a message dated 98-05-15 09:26:03 EDT, Alex295@aol.com writes: >True. But I am going by the known Radiance spells as indictation of status. As for initiated, the way I read it, Angus was initiated into the BoR. To me >that indicates that someone introduced him to the society. That makes sense to me as it is true that Angus was ten when he became a member. Plus it could make for an interesting plot to uncover some Brother that pointed out the >knowledge. IMO the more likely scenario is that Angus discovered the BoR by >spying on Brannart. That is interesting -- I always got the impression that members of the Brotherhood of the Radiance had to research how to join on their own and had no contact with the rest of the Brotherhood until they built their receptacles and used them for the first time. And Angus, despite being a child at the time, was also a genius/prodigy -- so he could well have done the necessary research on his own. Of course, if somebody else did help him out, that would be a very interesting development. >> Just going by the "initiated" term and its definition. And it is in that definition that I based my opinion on. Plus, if you look at all those Brothers that are allied to Crownguard, it seems that they have some inside edge to the Radiance. Hmm....perhaps there be a bit of assistance with those fellows. Or it could be that the research resources of House Crownguard just offer more potential for someone having access to those tomes to find the needed information. Personally I could care less how Angus gained the knowledge. Though I will admit it may be most interesting if he gained membership either by help from another Brother or stealing the knowledge. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 04:48:06 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara In a message dated 98-05-21 09:03:10 EDT, you write: << Not sure if this is what you meant, but in the 400's the Vandals ended up with North Africa, the Visigoths with Spain and some of south France and the Ostrogoths with Italy. In the 500's the emperor Justinian reconquered the Vandal and I think some of the Visigoth area and got in a wretched long-term war with the Ostrogoths that ended up ruining what was left of Italy.>> That sounds very much like the example I was thinking of. My historical source I wanted to cite has successfully managed to evade my searches. The one source I have found is one of Barry Sadler's novels of the "Casca" series. The early books historical/fiction/fantasy are pretty good as to historical accuracy. Later books were pretty much churned out and show the affects of Sadler's dependency on booze and other substances. Those not familiar with the series should check out a few of the books. It is a good, if not original premise, that sees a great deal of the Roman Empire up to the Vietnam War, and all points in between. These two periods seem to be the ones that Sadler spent more time on in his research. All are seen through the eyes of Casca Rufio Longius, who served originally as a Roman Legionaire. Due to the inability to die (long story) he is a forever living person. He spends time doing a little bit of everything, but mostly he serves as a soldier (part of the curse). The Casca series pops up in my Randel GAZ as part of the Legend and Lore of that kingdom. And that legend will be addressed further in one of the Randel addendums. BTW the Randel GAZ will be sent to the first run folks this week. The release of the Net Almanac kinda put its planned release on hold. But anyway....in "Casca: The Sentinel" the main character is part of a mercenary band hired by the Emperor to suppliment the Legions. Their task involved conquering one of these Vandel controlled cities in North Africa. Due to his particular condition, Casca notes the irony of these Vandels with their more northernly war cries. He notes in particular the garb and how it clashed with the more traditional garb of the Vandels. He also notes that the "desert Vandels" had never seen the land of their forefathers. So it was not the bevy of info that was requested. My suggestion is to use common sense in having these two cultures overlap. And not to forget factions of purists that adhere to the "old ways" and oppose the other national character and the mixed character. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 10:32:17 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3rd Edition >>>Rumors have been flying regarding certain aspects of the upcoming 3rd edition of the AD&D rules. I have it from Gary Gygax that I hope to God that they havnt got rid of the class system. People talk about AD+D being powergamed - try Star Wars or any White Wolf stuff and you will know the true meaning of the Force... Cheerz ROB (soon to become a 30something advocate of 2nd ed, I think! - just like what happened to 1st ed players...) :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 10:42:56 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class BTW - an aside... When I ran oD+D (not all that long ago) I was struck by how powerful the elf class was. Just to compare to AD+D, as there has been much ripping of multiclassing lately (I agree, I dont like it either, but just to show D+D is no better...). The Elf compared to the Elven Fighter/Mage Elf needs 4000xp to go up from level 1 to 2. F/M needs a total of 4500xp to get both classes from 1 to 2. Elf has an average of 3.5hp per level. F/M has average of 3.85hp per level Elf can wear armour and cast spells, F/M cannot Elf has fighting abilities identical to a D+D fighter of equal level, F/M loses out (no specialisation, absolutely essential for powergamed fighters) Elf has far superior saving throws F/M will get 7th level spells, with his level limits, while elf only will get 5th But 10M elf is about as hard in melee as anyone, bar the slightly less hit points (but there is stoneskin for that!) F/M will only get 7th level spells if his intelligence is good enough - and its hard to get that when u want good con and strength as well... I know I will lose this debate... But another comparison - the Shadow Elf Shaman. An AD+D shadow elf can be a mage/priest, but I believe that Shamans are effectively fighter/mage/priests who need about the same number of xp, and have less tight level limits... Cheerz AD+D Rob :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 05:38:45 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac: Brannart In a message dated 98-05-22 12:39:56 EDT, you write: << ROFL! *clap clap clap* You should do more of this stuff sometimes!>> Thanks....those were some nutty items that spew from my twisted mind. Believe it or not, they were created on the spot. << And now, some reasons why Brannart can't be dead: 1.By D&D rules, liches don't need a phylactery.>> Yep...plus Brannart is not the everyday run of the mill lich. So his exact properties may differ from that of a d&d or ad&d lich. <<2.Even by AD&D rules, Brannart is a Radiance lich, so he doesn't necessary have a phylactery. A phylactery is created by a wizard when he is preparing himself for lichdom, which Brannart didn't do.>> Well...I still like to think that the Radiance Recepticle or the NoS itself acts as his phylactory. Since Brannart's lichdom was caused by the Radiance, then it is only right that Brannart has to "feed" on the Radiance to maintain his unlife. Still, it would be quite ironic (and I do love irony) if the phylactory was of no importance and Angus's destruction of suspected phylactories were a waste of time and effort. <<3.Do you really think he would be so foolish as to keep his phylactery where anyone could find it? It's probably not anywhere near his castle. Any self-respecting mage has a faraway safehold (possibly in a pocket plane), where nobody can get.>> Well...if the phylactory is his Radiance Recepticle then I could see Angus not smashing it. Instead keeping it intact for hs own use and as a trophy. And here is where irony shows again. Let us say Angus taps the old boys radiance receptical only to have Brannart pop out and say hello to the grandson. Or even more ironic would be to have the phylactory as being real obvious (radiance receptical). So obvious that it is dismissed as being one. <<4.Even then, any self-respecting archmage has a few clones/simulacrums/other death-escaping spells ready. It's really tough to permanently kill an archmage!>> Yep...for example. Look at RL's Azalin. Contengency spell to afford protection from physical attack. A few corpses stashed to transfer to if needed. Or Henri d'Ambreville. He has been knocked off a few times only to return to cause further havoc. <> No appologies my friend. Brannart has much potential in Mystara. IF he is truly dead, then Mystara has lost a villian whose full potential has never truly been realized. Few mages can say that their actions played such a key role in causing global warfare. And in that regard, Brannart did that by having his minions kill the Alphatian elven spy. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 07:43:39 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 4 : Gareth = another Entropic In a message dated 98-05-23 13:57:49 EDT, you write: << > Talitha's field is stealing and evil thieves. Which certainly fits, since GGareth is stealing worshippers from other Immortals. Where's Talitha's power >base, anyway? I don't know whether this is her main power base, but there is a tribe of orcs on the Orc's Head peninsula that worships her. But given her origins I wouls suspect that she is most popular with Alphatian criminals. >> IMO Talitha would thrive in the more decadent areas of Alphatia. She would gain her revenge off the spellcasting caste by feeding off its self indulgence and the resilting decay it causes. She may have her clerics have a hand in zzonga trade and production. IMO Talitha keeps a low profile in her followings. Aside from Alphaks, she is the only entropic Alphatian Immortal. Alphaks is not an ally nor will he ever be. He is just too fanatical about destroyng Alphatia. Whereas Talitha is having to much fun manipulating and feeding on Alphatian vices. Perhaps Taltha is very much like Kaiser Sosai in The Usual Suspects. "The greatest trick the devil played was in convincing the world that he did not exist" Like Brannart McGregor, the Immortal Talitha has alot of potential. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #345 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 17:40:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #346 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: e175c52220846a0baf59044f0256459c mystara-digest Sunday, May 24 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 346 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3rd Edition Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class Re: [MYSTARA] - Brannart and his lichdom Re: [MYSTARA] - 3rd Edition Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac: Brannart Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class [MYSTARA] - "Northern" kindgom Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Almanac RE: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - 3rd Edition Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Brannart and his lichdom Re: [MYSTARA] - A thought on Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Radience Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Radience Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 09:23:37 -0400 From: "Arthur D. Reynolds" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3rd Edition Rob wrote: >>>>Rumors have been flying regarding certain aspects of the upcoming 3rd edition of the AD&D rules. I have it from Gary Gygax tthat >I hope to God that they havnt got rid of the class system. People talk about AD+D being powergamed - try Star Wars or any White Wolf stuff and you will know the true meaning of the Force... >Cheerz >ROB >(soon to become a 30something advocate of 2nd ed, I think! - just like what happened to 1st ed players...) >:) If it's any consolation, the current rumors have it that the base system won't change very much. The bulk of the changes are supposed to result from streamlining the core rules, and adopting the class/skill/power system from PO. What other changes will come about are anyone's guess, but the base system can't be altered too radically, or none of the existing materials will be compatible with the new rules. Personally, I hope that much of the "optional rules" are dumped. The overabundance of optional supplements is the product of TSR's former "quantity, not neccesarily quality" philosophy. I think the WOTC buyout was a positive step. The 98 product schedule is a return to popular demand, high quality releases. Of the new products I've picked up, I've been very impressed with them as a whole. The Turk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 10:31:52 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Almanac << What will happen to the Ethengar steppes? Whatabout some nice Heldannic colonization. The Steppes will become good farmlands.... Håvard >> Good grazing lands does not make good farming lands. OTOH the Heldannic hills were good enough for horses... :-) Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 10:31:55 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals << You just want to see some Tubak priests kicking in Glantrian wizards dont you, Khan! >> Now, THAT is a REALLY charming idea of yours ... :-) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 07:59:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Curtis Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class Forgive the formatting if it appears funny at all. I get the digest, so replies aren't as easy (or I'm missing something). Rob wrote: BTW - an aside... >When I ran oD+D (not all that long ago) I was struck > by how powerful >the elf >class was. Just to compare to AD+D, as there has > been much ripping of >multiclassing lately (I agree, I dont like it > either, but just to show >D+D >is no better...). Your basic D&D elf is sort of an equivalent fighter mage. *The* bonus here is that an elf is a *single* class with a single xp scale, not a multiclass with multiple scales. Also, rolling for hit points is less of a headache for a D&D elf (1d6) than an elf fighter/mage (1d10/2 + 1d4/2). >Elf can wear armour and cast spells, F/M cannot Done for simplicity. AD&D says "no armor AND spells" for fighter/mages with umpteen exceptions and conditions. Really unnecessary. >Elf has fighting abilities identical to a D+D fighter > of equal level, >F/M >loses out (no specialisation, absolutely essential for powergamed >fighters) Actually, D&D multiple attacks aren't as powerful as you think. They may only be used if if your THACo to hit something is 2 or less, otherwise no multiple attacks. AD&D fighters get multiple attacks regardless. Also, D&D demihumans are not *quite* as powerful fighters as D&D fighters, but it is close. >An AD+D shadow elf can be a mage/priest, but I > believe that >Shamans >are effectively fighter/mage/priests who need about > the same number of >xp, >and have less tight level limits... Actually, the D&D Shadow Elf Shaman is a bona-fide multiclass (THE HORROR!), but is the only one in D&D to denote an extremely special case. However, shamans at higher levels are actually WORSE at fighting than Magic-users of an equivalent level. They (shamans) may use fighter weapons and armor, but they never advance beyond level 10 in fighting ability leaving them with one attack and something like a 13 THACo, by far the worst THACo for a levelled out class in D&D. Wizards, on the other hand, have something like a natural 5 at max levels? Don't have the book right here, so I can't check. Still, I know it turns out to be much better than a Shaman's THACo. Adam =:~) _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 11:51:52 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Brannart and his lichdom << Personally I could care less how Angus gained the knowledge. Though I will admit it may be most interesting if he gained membership either by help from another Brother or stealing the knowledge. >> The way Angus got into the Brotherhood was how everyone else did. They have to be allowed in by Rad. Rad is the only one who knows all the members of the brotherhood's true identity. All the members other than Rad, know the other members under pseudonames used for protection and secrecy. That's why Brannart and Angus don't know that eachother are in it. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 11:54:31 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3rd Edition << > Rumors have been flying regarding certain aspects of the >>>upcoming 3rd edition of the AD&D rules >> I'm almost positive that idea got trashed when they came out with the Player's Option books. Skills & Powers, Spells & Magic, the new hardcover PH, and all those books that came out with the new hardcovers were planned to be named 3rd edition originally, but then were decided to just be named Player's Option for the titles. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 12:00:49 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac: Brannart << Well...I still like to think that the Radiance Recepticle or the NoS itself acts as his phylactory. Since Brannart's lichdom was caused by the Radiance, then it is only right that Brannart has to "feed" on the Radiance to maintain his unlife. >> I'm pretty sure that the phylactory for Brannart would be that container in which all BoR must have in their possesion somehow, which actually holds a part of the Radience in it. <> I would think that the only way Angus would attempt this assassination would be if he knew for sure what the phylactory was. Angus is one of the most intelligent NPCs in Glantri. Plus, he should have some idea that his father is already keeping an eye on him just in case something like this occured. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 12:12:02 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class <> It really isn't too difficult to advance these characters in their classes. It also clarifies the progression IMO. <> After you play a multiclass you realize that this is no harder than adding the simple 5-10% bonus when accepting XP from the DM. >>Elf can wear armour and cast spells, F/M cannot >Done for simplicity. AD&D says "no armor AND spells" for fighter/mages with umpteen exceptions and conditions. Really unnecessary. I think it is necessary. If this was allowed then why wouldn't normal mages be able to cast spells while encumbered by armor and the such? I think that the F/M class evens the class out and makes it fair and equal to the other classes. <> I don't remember reading that before. Where does it state that you must have a Thaco of 2? That doesn't seem right considering they allow multiple attacks at such early levels compared to AD&D. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 17:02:22 GMT From: lyndon@pobox.com (Lyndon Baugh) Subject: [MYSTARA] - "Northern" kindgom For that matter there was a Norman ("Northman") kingdom in Scicily and southern Italy for a few generations! Some century ago the Vandal Germanic tribe (yes, those vandals) ended up taking the Roman province of North Africa (where Libya is now) and had a non-trivial fleet. Cultures can indeed wander quite a way from their "home" or expected climates. Lyndon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 13:35:53 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of Mystara In a message dated 98-05-22 12:33:11 EDT, mdalmonte@provincia.ra.it writes: >So, this should answer my question about dragon rulers' worshippers: they hhave none or they would be considered Mavericks. But what if they are mavericks sponsored by the Great One? Well, why should they have the entry for Followers Alignment and Granted Powers if they had none? I think dragon immortals can have followers without problems, even Dragon Rulers. Maybe the maverick is the immortal dragon with HUMAN followers..? Maybe those entries were another mistake like the entry for Rad? A cleric with Rad as his patron Immortal is a bit difficult to accept -- although I would not be surprised at such a cult springing up in Darokin. Dragon clerics of the Dragon Rulers would make some sense -- but clerics of the Great One and of Pearl (the chaotic ruler) would be at a slight disadvantage, as their special powers of flight and infravision are already possessed by all dragons. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 13:35:49 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of Mystara In a message dated 98-05-22 12:33:11 EDT, mdalmonte@provincia.ra.it writes: >Also Bruce says that dragonkind belongs to none of the Spheres of Power. BBut WotI clearly places the 3 immortal dragons + Great One under the Sphere of Matter IIRC, and frankly i don't really like it. Better to have them not aligned. I think this may have been one of the "casualties" of the transition between the first Immortal's set and WotI. In the first Immortal's set, only humans could become Immortals in the Sphere of Matter because only they could meet the class changing requirements. In WotI, on the other hand, the Sphere of Matter is the one that is most popular with sentient "monster" types, and that is where the formerly "sphereless" Immortals such as the Dragon Rulers ended up. Fortunately, the Hierarchs of Matter don't waste a lot of time ordering their "underlings" around, so the Great One can avoid most Immortal politics. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 13:36:11 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara In a message dated 98-05-23 20:21:21 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >Interesting. Care to speculate on what effect the meteor should have hhad on the surrounding lands and if the sea level would have risen or fallen from the sinking of Alphatia. Tidal waves along the eastern edge of Brun certainly would have caused some disasters. The effects of the meteor should have caused a "mini-ice age" -- although it is apparent that nothing of the sort did happen, so most likely the Immortals cleaned up after this one. As for the sinking of Alphatia -- that would take considerable work. First we would have to establish the current patterns before and after the sinking to get the long term climactic effects. As for the immediate effects -- the first motion of the water would have been to fill in the gap left by Alphatia. Then the water would have expanded in all directions, and the cycle would have repeated itself until things settled down again. My guess is that Brun would have gotten off lightly -- Bellissaria and the Isle of Dawn would have borne the brunt of the waves. But somebody who actually knows something about weather and climate could give you a much better answer. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 17:40:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #346 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: e175c52220846a0baf59044f0256459c 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 13:36:14 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara In a message dated 98-05-23 21:01:31 EDT, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >Okay, I follow you. Ive been toying with the idea of having a king unite tthe NR as one Kingdom. (no federation shit, one king to rule em all) Maybe Ragnar could be up fot the job? If you'vre still got that histroy book around, I was thinking about something along the lines of what Harold Hairfine did in Norway around 895. I think iot said somewhere that even Thyatis wopuld ferar the norsemen if they were ever united... Or to make things more interesting for game purposes, pattern your unifier after Canute the Great, who managed to gain control of Denmark, Norway, and England -- but his empire did not survive his death. Oh -- and he was a Christian as well -- which in game terms would mean that he follows the faith of whatever non-NR country he conquers, not that of the traditional NR Immortals. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 20:19:17 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Almanac On Sun, 24 May 1998, JamugaKhan wrote: ><< What will happen to the Ethengar steppes? Whatabout some nice Heldannic ccolonization. The Steppes will become good farmlands.... >Håvard >> >Good grazing lands does not make good farming lands. >OTOH the Heldannic hills were good enough for horses... :-) This is worth considering. However, having read a litle about American history, I started thinking about the US Midwest. That region was once considered the great American Desert, but after some improvements in agriculture the lands were transformed into a very fertile area. A litle magic might do the trick... :) Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 20:50:10 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara >In a message dated 98-05-23 20:21:21 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >>Interesting. Care to speculate on what effect the meteor should have hhhad on the surrounding lands and if the sea level would have risen or fallen from the sinking of Alphatia. Tidal waves along the eastern edge >>of Brun certainly would have caused some disasters. There is a RW paralell to the sinking of Alphatia: when the isle of Thera exploded in ancient times (around 1300 BCE, if my memory does not fail), it produced tidal waves which run well into mainland Egypt, some thousands of miles to the South; the Pharaoh himself had to come to the zone to take emergency measures, so the damages had to be severe. The only way of understanding the sinking of Alphatia is by thinking of a "planar sinking": the continent was wiped out from the Prime and forced into another Outer, Elemental (or the Ethereal) Plane. Perhaps the plane in question was Water, so that the vanishing had the outer ressemblance of a "sinking" to the casual witness. Later, Alphatia was put into the Prime again, this time in the HW. BTW, I wonder if someone could post a more detailed narrative of the WOI and its motives and parties (without violating copyright, of course). I am running a new campaign, which starts AC 1000 and is intended to go through this conflict, but I have been unable to find a copy of the WOI boxed set. I just would need some historical stuff beyond "Glantri and Alphatia get angry; Glantri City is bombed, Thyatis sues for peace, Alphatia sinks". Andreas de Skie Scholar from Karameikos and occasional researcher of lost cultures *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 21:07:58 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3rd Edition On Sun, 24 May 1998, Rob wrote: >I hope to God that they havnt got rid of the class system. People talk about AD+D being powergamed - try Star Wars or any White Wolf stuff and you will know the true meaning of the Force... This is slightly off topic but I think the word powergame has several definitions. WW's "storyteller"-games and possibly SW are what I would call highpower games. Personally I think that is really cool. I've gotten tired of playing the young farmer boy who goes out to explore the world and returns a superhero. I prefer games where the PCs are pretty powerful from the beginning, and more or less stay that way. Powergamers on the otherhand, are people who exploit the game systems to create powerful PCs. (cf: Munchkins)This, is bad, but the above is good. (IMO) I think AD&D will keep its class system and levels (which I dont care much for), but I think it would be a good idea to keep the classes simple, but with room for variation. sincerely, Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 13:14:12 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class ><> >I don't remember reading that before. Where does it state that you must have a >Thaco of 2? That doesn't seem right considering they allow multiple attacks at >such early levels compared to AD&D. Rules Cyclopedia, pg. 104. The original rule was in the Companion set, I believe. As for early, an OD&D fighter doesn't get a second attack until 12th, where a first level AD&D fighter can get an improvement right off the bat. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #4253672 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 21:15:34 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of Mystara On Sun, 24 May 1998, Kaviyd wrote: >Dragon clerics of the Dragon Rulers would make some sense -- but clerics of the Great One and of Pearl (the chaotic ruler) would be at a slight disadvantage, as their special powers of flight and infravision are already possessed by all dragons. What about replacing these abilities with increased flight speed and x-rayvision? Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 15:19:57 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Brannart and his lichdom In a message dated 98-05-24 12:03:42 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: >The way Angus got into the Brotherhood was how everyone else did. They have to be allowed in by Rad. Rad is the only one who knows all the members of the >brotherhood's true identity. All the members other than Rad, know the other members under pseudonames used for protection and secrecy. That's why Brannart and Angus don't know that eachother are in it. One problem with that part about "being allowed in by Rad" -- what happened during they years that Rad was not around? Were no new members able to join the Brotherhood from 1009-1012 or so? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 21:24:03 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A thought on Old Ones On Sat, 23 May 1998, Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 98-05-21 16:55:04 EDT, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: >>I agree with you completely. I think any attampt to describe the Old Ones wwwill make them less mysterious. And they should be the ultimate mystery. Of this reason I dont like the ending of WotI. Or, at least I dont like some of the interpretations of what happened there. Thats why I think that that creature no longer is an Old One, but perhaps a fallen Old One who now uses the name Gareth.... >That is an intriguing possibility. But there is one way we could have more descriptions of the Old Ones that would not make them any less mysterious -- if the different descriptions were incompatible! Then we might have some extensive discussions about their nature, with just enough information to suggest that they could be nearly anything. That is true. It is a lot like the way they deal with gods in Chaosium's Glorantha. OTOH, not even the Immortals know whether the Old Ones exist or not. >Come to think of it, are we sure that the Old One who appeared at the end of WotI really was an Old One? Maybe some Initiate managed to get his hands on a "wand of controlling Immortals" artifact that still had a couple of charges left in it and decided to have some fun with Ixion and Rad. I bet they will be very annoyed if and when they catch up with him! hehe, sounds a bit silly, but there could certainly be a lot of explainations of what happened there. OO is a term for what the Immortals do not understand so in that sense, what happened was an OO (O1?;). Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 16:50:05 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Radience At 19.26 18/05/98 -0400, SteelAngel wrote: >The Radience was altered to sap magic when used, to weaken the sphere of Energy's influence on the Prime. Now there is a second "Radience", around 500 Miles from the original. The Immortals of every other Sphere have a right to be afraid, very afraid. 2 Powers like that of the Radience could, theoretically propel Energy to a vastly superior position in Immortal politics. Don't forget that the original Radiance, the glantrian one, is now connected to the Sphere of Entropy, not Energy. So we have an Entropic Radiance and an Energetic ones. >What about Rad? Both he and Rafiel are interested in the same things. It would be interesting to see if there is any rivalry or cooperation between the two because of their studies. Well, in WotI they were allies and thus cooperated in their studies, though I don't think Rafiel told Rad about his secret project. For next year we already have many ideas about the possible uses of this new Radiance (except granting spells to the Shamans on the DoD), but I would like to discuss this on the MML. Do you think it was a good idea to have Rafiel's nucleus completed now? Wasn't it too early? Do you like having the SE shamans cast spells on the DoD? Doesn't it umbalance the game? What about allowing the SE shamans to cast spells on the surface too (i.e. without a Soul Crystal), would you like it? Maybe we should set heavy restrictions (eg. physical damage due to the use of Radiance, or a limit on the number and level of spells that can be casted on the surface without a Soul Crystal) Can you think other uses for the new Radiance? What about the Immortals? How will they react? And the Old Ones? We need your feedback. - -------------- Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 - -------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 17:16:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Radience Fabrizio Paoli pontificated: >Do you think it was a good idea to have Rafiel's nucleus completed now? Wasn't it too early? If you felt the Rafiel's nucleus is completed too early, perhaps you can say something like the shamans took some shortcuts inorder to complete the nucleus quickly due to the emergency, and after the using it immediatly after the completetion, it has drained/short-circut the device, and need several more years of work to get it to work again. Or perhaps there are some radiation leak that is undected due to the hurried work... - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 23:37:17 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class At 07.59 24/05/98 -0700, Adam Curtis wrote: >Actually, the D&D Shadow Elf Shaman is a bona-fide multiclass (THE HORROR!), but is the only one in D&D to denote an extremely special case. Yes, Shamans are sort of fighter/mage/cleric, but note that several of their clerical spells are actually mage spells somewhere else (i.e. fireball). And the Radiance spells too aren't very similar to other clerical spells. >However, >shamans at higher levels are actually WORSE at fighting than Magic-users of an equivalent level. They (shamans) may use fighter weapons and armor, but they never advance beyond level 10 in fighting Are you sure? At 9th level Shadow Elves should choose if continuing to advance as Elf-Lords (fighters) or Elf-mages (wizards). IIRC nothing prevents the shamans to advance as fighters instead of mages, and the ones known as "Hand of Rafiel" (a group of fighting shamans) probably do advance as fighters. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #346 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, May 25 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 347 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Radience [MYSTARA] - Info on modules Re: [MYSTARA] - Info on modules Re: [MYSTARA] - A thought on Old Ones Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Radience Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Radience [MYSTARA] - Longinus character Re: [MYSTARA] - Brannart and his lichdom Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - Info on modules [MYSTARA] - ALmanac comments [MYSTARA] - Best modules- do we have a consensus? Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Radience Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Radience Re: [MYSTARA] - Info on modules Re: [MYSTARA] - Best modules- do we have a consensus? Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Radience ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 21:37:17 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class At 07.59 24/05/98 -0700, Adam Curtis wrote: >Actually, the D&D Shadow Elf Shaman is a bona-fide multiclass (THE HORROR!), but is the only one in D&D to denote an extremely special case. Yes, Shamans are sort of fighter/mage/cleric, but note that several of their clerical spells are actually mage spells somewhere else (i.e. fireball). And the Radiance spells too aren't very similar to other clerical spells. >However, >shamans at higher levels are actually WORSE at fighting than Magic-users of an equivalent level. They (shamans) may use fighter weapons and armor, but they never advance beyond level 10 in fighting Are you sure? At 9th level Shadow Elves should choose if continuing to advance as Elf-Lords (fighters) or Elf-mages (wizards). IIRC nothing prevents the shamans to advance as fighters instead of mages, and the ones known as "Hand of Rafiel" (a group of fighting shamans) probably do advance as fighters. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 23:56:25 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Radience At 17.16 24/05/98 -0400, Shin Chyang Yu wrote: FFabrizio Paoli pontificated: >>Do you think it was a good idea to have Rafiel's nucleus completed now? Wasn't it too early? >If you felt the Rafiel's nucleus is completed too early, perhaps you can say something like the shamans took some shortcuts inorder to complete the nucleus quickly due to the emergency, and after the using it immediatly after the completetion, it has drained/short-circut the device, and need several more years of work to get it to work again. Or perhaps there are some radiation leak that is undected due to the hurried work... True, actually that was one of our option if the MML didn't like the nucleus to be completed now. Anyway I wasn't just looking for suggestion about what to do with the nucleus (we've a lot of ideas about it), but for opinions about it being completed now. Remember, we didn't write the Almanac for ourselves (my campaign will probably never get that far in time), but for all Mystara fans, so we need your feedback. And about how I feel about it, well, if I really felt it was too early, probably I wouldn't have written that event in the Almanac ;-) ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 18:29:49 EDT From: Dleggend Subject: [MYSTARA] - Info on modules Can anybody tell me what are these modules about and if they are any good. X8 Drums on Fire Mountain M? Five Coins for a Kingdom Thanks Dleggend@aol.com http://members.aol.com/dleggend/ Enter Dleggend's Page *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 18:46:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Info on modules - ---Dleggend wrote: >Can anybody tell me what are these modules about and if they are any good. >X8 Drums on Fire Mountain >M? Five Coins for a Kingdom M4, Five Coins for a Kingdom is an adventure about people of another plane who are in big trouble. So they "request" the help of adventurer by tossing a coin on the PP, in Norwold in think. The adventurer must learn about who sent this coin and find four other that are, by the way, great sources of magic. Sorry that it's not more detailled but I've not read trough :o/ == - -------------------------------------------- Tharquil's French D&D Homepage at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/5201 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 19:01:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A thought on Old Ones >>Come to think of it, are we sure that the Old One who appeared at the end >>of WotI really was an Old One? Maybe some Initiate managed to get his >>hands on a "wand of controlling Immortals" artifact that still had a couple >>of charges left in it and decided to have some fun with Ixion and Rad. I bet >>they will be very annoyed if and when they catch up with him! >hehe, sounds a bit silly, but there could certainly be a lot of explainations of what happened there. OO is a term for what the Immortals >do not understand so in that sense, what happened was an OO (O1?;). As I don't like the idea of an OO coming to the rescue, I shoot you this idea: could the powerful appearance in the NoS cavern only be a defense system of the NoS to prevent further overuse of it by Rad in is confrontation with Ixion (maybe Rad must have exagerated a little to resist is Hierarch). This could have been set by the OO wich modified it in the first place (HE foresighted the event). And the absorbtion of the immortal was only the price to pay for getting so much energy in a so short time... == - -------------------------------------------- Tharquil's French D&D Homepage at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/5201 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 19:12:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Radience - ---Shin Chyang Yu wrote: >If you felt the Rafiel's nucleus is completed too early, perhaps you can say something like the shamans took some shortcuts inorder to complete the nucleus quickly due to the emergency, and after the using it immediatly after the completetion, it has drained/short-circut >the device, and need several more years of work to get it to work again. Or perhaps there are some radiation leak that is undected due to the hurried work... Yeah, me too think that it was too early to get another NoS at work... Plots with the 1st should be made to an extend before... getting the 2nd for back up in the future. == - -------------------------------------------- Tharquil's French D&D Homepage at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/5201 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 22:19:42 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class On Sun, 24 May 1998, Inconu wrote: >I think it is necessary. If this was allowed then why wouldn't normal mages be able to cast spells while encumbered by armor and the such? I think that the Well, If I was an elf 300 years old, and just beginning my adventuring career, I'd figure that I'd know how to cast spells wearing plate mail. It seems logical. Also, normal mages are usually humans that have spent a lot of time studying their whole lives to learn magic. Not much time for much else. Elves, OTOH, would have enough time to lern the ins and outs of casting with armor. Also, I'd figger, elven armor is more flexible too :) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 22:33:34 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Radience On Sat, 23 May 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: >Don't forget that the original Radiance, the glantrian one, is now connected to the Sphere of Entropy, not Energy. So we have an Entropic Radiance and an Energetic ones. Thou art correct. I haven't read through that adventure in some time, and had forgotten that the Old One changed the target of the Glantrian Radience's effect. Silly me :) Next time I will consult my sages. >Do you think it was a good idea to have Rafiel's nucleus completed now? Wasn't it too early? Who'se to say. In the SE gaz it did hint that they had been working on the thing for a LONG while. It was a bit of Deus ex machina, but it was fitting revenge, since The General got killed by the Schattenalfen. >Do you like having the SE shamans cast spells on the DoD? Doesn't it umbalance the game? Only if they are the only ones. Say, for example, since the new radience was rushed, excess magical power may seep out and grant random spells to overworlders. >Can you think other uses for the new Radiance? Well, from my understanding, The new radience could be used as a source of extreme strength, and could be used to save the ailing twisted Canolbarth permanently. But restricting its use to only SElves would SEVERELY unbalance the game. They could easily take over a place like Glantri on the DoD. I stick with my "power seep" theory. >What about the Immortals? How will they react? And the Old Ones? The Immortals, when they discover it, will go ballistic, as I said before. But the Old ones may be intrigued. An Old one transformed the original nucleus, and now *MORTALS* (under immortal guidance) have made a copy of it. That's special in itself. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 04:33:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Longinus character >Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 04:48:06 EDT >From: Alex295 >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara >I have found is one of Barry Sadler's novels of the "Casca" series. The early >the ones that Sadler spent more time on in his research. All are seen through the eyes of Casca Rufio Longius, who served originally as a Roman Legionaire. >Due to the inability to die (long story) he is a forever living person. He spends time doing a little bit of everything, but mostly he serves as a soldier (part of the curse). It sounds a lot like Longinus, played by Sebastian Roche, in the short-lived television series ROAR (1997) which was set in a fantasy Ireland. That character couldn't die either. They shouldn't have stopped that series, which in a sense was pure D&D. I'd give a lot to hear the immortal line, "Fergus, ya bloody fool!" one more time. - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) "Practise Safe Government -- use a Kingdom!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 09:12:42 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Brannart and his lichdom In a message dated 98-05-24 16:43:56 EDT, Kaviyd writes: << In a message dated 98-05-24 12:03:42 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: >The way Angus got into the Brotherhood was how everyone else did. They have to be allowed in by Rad. Rad is the only one who knows all the members of the >brotherhood's true identity. All the members other than Rad, know the other >members under pseudonames used for protection and secrecy. That's why Brannart and Angus don't know that eachother are in it. One problem with that part about "being allowed in by Rad" -- what happened during they years that Rad was not around? Were no new members able to join the Brotherhood from 1009-1012 or so? >> Not only that, but since House Crownguard is so bitterly opposed to the d'Ambrevilles then why should Rad allow so many of that family and its allies into the Brotherhood. IMO the BoR pretty much governs itself and the Radiance. Rad's participation is limited to Etienne being there as a Brother. I also think that most Brothers suspect who each other are. Glantri Gaz offers an example of one such meeting and it is filled with references to Brothers speaking with a slight accent. If a Brother is smart enough to get in the BoR, then surely they can use the ole brain matter to get a pretty good idea who each Brother is. Plus a Brother showing up with a whithered arm or other body part is bound to be recongized for its worth by another Brother who himself may very well bear simular afflictions. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 09:42:15 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Almanac ><< What will happen to the Ethengar steppes? Whatabout some nice Heldannic ccolonization. The Steppes will become good farmlands.... >Håvard >> >Good grazing lands does not make good farming lands. >OTOH the Heldannic hills were good enough for horses... :-) >Jamuga Khan Good point, Jamuga! I can tell you this much - as writer for the Heldanners in the Almanac, there is little chance that they will be invading the steppes anytime soon - - the Knights have enough on their plate in Norwold and Davania that they'll be busy for several years to come. Right now, the Ethengars are the least of their concerns, especially when news of the invasion of Glantri reaches them. Geoff >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 09:48:07 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 11:32:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #347 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: f232d2d60538c380ab481d60acf0d1f8 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Info on modules Dleggend said: >Can anybody tell me what are these modules about and if they are any good. >X8 Drums on Fire Mountain >M? Five Coins for a Kingdom X8 is rather similar to X1 (ISle of Dread) - the PCs go to an island (this one lies southeast of Thyatis, in the Western Sea of Dawn), where they encounter the ruins of a lost race (I expanded on this race, and called them the M'kar, for my Isles of Steam article - available on Shawn's page), as well as hostile tribes of kara-kara. It's mainly an INdiana Jones-esque adventure (losts of shouting natives throwning spears, chases, exploration, etc.), but it's still fun nonetheless. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 09:51:15 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - ALmanac comments Hey everyone Just a quick note to say that if you have any comments regarding the events concerning the Heldannic Knights, or of developments in Davania (plus the descriptions of the nations therein), feel free to drop me a line. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 09:59:36 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Best modules- do we have a consensus? Hey, Have we reached any sort of consensus regarding the reprints of the best modules of all time, D&D-wise? I haven't sent my ballot in yet, hoping that we would reach some sort of agreement as to what should be reprinted. As it stands, we seem to have agreed that B10 (Night's Dark Terror), and X11 (Saga of the Shadowlord) should be resurrected. I also remember some support for X4 and X5 (The Desert Nomad series), too. So, my question is, how are the rest of you voting? Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 10:02:40 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Radience In a message dated 98-05-24 16:44:41 EDT, Fabrizio write: << At 19.26 18/05/98 -0400, SteelAngel wrote: >The Radience was altered to sap magic when used, to weaken the sphere of Energy's influence on the Prime. Now there is a second "Radience", around 500 Miles from the original. The Immortals of every other Sphere have a right to be afraid, very afraid. 2 Powers like that of the Radience could, theoretically propel Energy to a vastly superior position in Immortal politics. Don't forget that the original Radiance, the glantrian one, is now connected to the Sphere of Entropy, not Energy. So we have an Entropic Radiance and an Energetic ones.>> Which brings up a good question. How has the Radiance itself changed since its changeover from Energy to Entropy? Surely there has to be some added affects and spells with this differing source of power. >What about Rad? Both he and Rafiel are interested in the same things. It would be interesting to see if there is any rivalry or cooperation between the two because of their studies. Well, in WotI they were allies and thus cooperated in their studies, though I don't think Rafiel told Rad about his secret project.>> Well IIRC Rad's Dommsday Weapon/Device was created with the assistance of Rathanos (oddly out of place in opposing Alphatia) and/or Rafiel. However, I doubt Rad or Rathanos hasve an inkling of Rafiel's little project. <> Cool...it will be interesting to see these two NoS's compete against each other. Plus with elves in control of it, no telling what differing uses can be discovered for it. And IIRC the Shadow Elf NoS is untouched by Immortal and human tinkering so it could be very well different from the several times alterred version under the GSoM. <> Actually I was wondering when that thing was going to be finished. And its completion came at a vital moment. <> I have no problem with it. Since Rafiel is calling the shots with its usage (shamans) the damage it is capable of is limited. <> Actually, I have no problem with casting on the surface. However, I would give the new Radiance a limited range both above and below ground. Say the power only works in a diameter that would cover bother Shadow Elf Territories and Aengmor. I would not go with the whithering affects of overuse as seen with the Glantrian version. As an unmodified version, it may not cause those problems. Id think that Soul Crystals could be used to store energy to go out beyond the barriers/limitations. But given their properties, use would remain solidly placed below ground. If you think about it, the New Radiance could very well be the lifesaver for the elves of Mystara. As a dying race, this could be the potential tie that unifies them and aids them in their survival. <> I'd like to see this new radiance as very influential in the rebuilding of the Canolbarth Forest. Enhancing the current bevy of nature based spells is an obvious venue to this. Placing armors and weapons in its chamber for a year or so embues the armor and weapons with magical properties. Of course the quality will have to be excellent or else the weapons erode. And how about the Radiance making Lightening Zombies who act as the protectors of it. In particularly those SE slain defending the Temple from the invading Shattenalfen. Placed in the Temple after the battle as a sign of honor, they were discovered as lightening zombies the next day. <> Well the Immortals will probably bicker over it just like they did the original Glantri model. Hopefully hindsight will help in keeping the repeating of the same mistakes that plagued the Glantri version; magic drain, affliction. The Immortal that immediately comes to mind though is Rafiel. IIRC his reason for ordering the construction of the reactor was to prove to himself he was still sane. Now that it is done, will he be active with it or will he focus his attentions elsewhere? And of course he will have to officially change some of his teachings for the SE. This was addressed somewhat with the new Almanac. But some Rafiel inspired teachings should now be coming. His original teachings were focused on survival, now they should change to reflect the current status of the SE. << And the Old Ones?>> Hmm....IMO the Old Ones will act in a very much "hands off" manner. Or perhaps this Gareth is one of their little plots to keep an eye on the new radiance and more importantly the other immortals. However, since their intervention in WotI, you may see them act more directly if danger does manifest itself <> Well...you did ask. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 10:21:01 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Radience In a message dated 98-05-24 19:40:22 EDT, you write: << If you felt the Rafiel's nucleus is completed too early, perhaps you can say something like the shamans took some shortcuts inorder to complete the nucleus quickly due to the emergency, and after the using it immediatly after the completetion, it has drained/short-circut the device, and need several more years of work to get it to work again. Or perhaps there are some radiation leak that is undected due to the hurried work... >> Or you could say that the coincidental completion was not a coincidence. Perhaps, Rafiel foresaw the invasion and used the last stand as a way to demonstrate the power of the radiance and reassert his own influence among the SE falling into the Aztenoetl (sp) following. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 10:33:34 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Info on modules At 06:29 PM 5/24/98 EDT, you wrote: >Can anybody tell me what are these modules about and if they are any good. >X8 Drums on Fire Mountain A must have! The party is asked to check out a fog-shrouded island and stop a piratical band of greenskinned orcs called "Kara kara" from attacking merchants. It is an awesome module! >M? Five Coins for a Kingdom I own it, but I never ran it. It seemed okay. It is high level of course. As I recall it takes the characters to the outer planes to rescue a player ruled city that disappears from Norwold... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 10:37:08 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best modules- do we have a consensus? At 09:59 AM 5/25/98 -0400, you wrote: >Hey, >Have we reached any sort of consensus regarding the reprints of the best modules of all time, D&D-wise? >I haven't sent my ballot in yet, hoping that we would reach some sort of agreement as to what should be reprinted. As it stands, we seem to have agreed that B10 (Night's Dark Terror), and X11 (Saga of the Shadowlord) should be resurrected. I also remember some support for X4 and X5 (The Desert Nomad series), too. >So, my question is, how are the rest of you voting? I am going with B10, X11, X1, and The Nomad series. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 16:31:29 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class >>I think it is necessary. If this was allowed then why wouldn't normal mages be >>able to cast spells while encumbered by armor and the such? I think that the >Well, If I was an elf 300 years old, and just beginning my adventuring career, I'd figure that I'd know how to cast spells wearing plate mail. It seems logical. Also, normal mages are usually humans that have spent a lot of time studying their whole lives to learn magic. Not much time for much else. Elves, OTOH, would have enough time to lern the ins and outs of casting with armor. >Also, I'd figger, elven armor is more flexible too :) well, elven Chainmail in AD+D does let elven multiclassed mages cast spells in it. But its supposed to be rare (until you read the Menzoberranzan/Evermeet books...). I think the single most important thing is Choice. When making a character you want that character to be different from all the other characters you have played. Sure, you can have different personality/favourite weapon/homeland etc. but I think (poor roleplaying, I know!) that nothing is better than having a new angle on class or race. (wild mages, chronomancers. shamans...) I consider kits to be good for this reason. And multiclassing also - it broadens your options, makes your character more distinctive, more different. However, I believe in all things being equal - and sadly multiclassed characters are Not. The problem then arises that people will all want to be demihumans simply because humans are not as powerful - the Worst Reason. IMC I like to think I have dealt with the problem, but it has taken a fair bit of work and a lot of House Rules to get it that way. I just hope that 3rd edition offers the same variety, kits, multiclassing etc. as 2nd, but makes all things more equal - so the single classed human fighter can compete with the elven fighter/mage/thief. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 16:16:33 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Radience >For next year we already have many ideas about the possible uses of this new Radiance (except granting spells to the Shamans on the DoD), but I would like to discuss this on the MML. >Do you think it was a good idea to have Rafiel's nucleus completed now? Wasn't it too early? >Do you like having the SE shamans cast spells on the DoD? Doesn't it umbalance the game? I thought it was a climactic end to the Schattenalf invasion... Good Stuff! A thought - would there actually BE a DoD anymore? This new NoS could solve the problem... Perhaps only if both reactors were drained could there be a DoD. >What about allowing the SE shamans to cast spells on the surface too (i.e. without a Soul Crystal), would you like it? Maybe we should set heavy restrictions (eg. physical damage due to the use of Radiance, or a limit on the number and level of spells that can be casted on the surface without a Soul Crystal) >Can you think other uses for the new Radiance? If they dont use Soul Crystals I would have thought that they suffer all the restrictions of the Glantrian Radiance mages. Notably receptacles (the soul crystals themselves?) or a limited range from their NoS. And of course, rotting. Soul Crystal energy is supposed to be "safe" (according to the Gaz), there is no guarantee that this new magic is. According to the Verse of Immortality (I think) Rafiel is attempting to show the Shadow Elves the way to Immortality. BTW - what about Porphyriel ascending to Immortality? It seems shes done a good job, finishing off the reactor... I dont think we've had an ascension yet in the Net Almanacs... >What about the Immortals? How will they react? And the Old Ones? >We need your feedback. One notable fact is that the Glantrian NoS was "altered" by the Old Ones. Presumably Rafiels has not. As to the potential differences here, I dont know. The NoS doesnt need fuel, like a RW nuke reactor. Perhaps the Shadow Elf reactor would need to use soul crystals as fuel to keep it running. (Uranium, anyone?) Or perhaps it consumes magic items, like a Spelljammer Furnace helm??? As regards to other Immortals, this could even cause a rehash of WotI. What would Ixion think? Especially after the end of WotI, where Ixion has a sort of truce with the Fellowship of the Star. He may consider Rafiel to have gone behind his back on this one, by not revealing this project of his to him. Or perhaps Ixion knows of this new reactor, and it has his full support. Im sure Atzanteotl will be very interested in this new turn of events. As an Entropic he wont just be on the sidelines on this one, like in WotI - he has a very personal interest in the Shadow Elves. Rambling on... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #347 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, May 25 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 348 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Radience Re: [MYSTARA] - Brannart and his lichdom Re: [MYSTARA] - MODULE X13, Crown of Ancient Glory [MYSTARA] - Lathan's Gold and the isles of dread Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - Longinus character [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago: many many problems.. (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - Best modules- do we have a concensus? Re: [MYSTARA] - Brannart and his lichdom Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - Info on modules Re: [MYSTARA] - The Brannart Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - Info on modules Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Radience Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Radience ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 18:06:16 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Radience >Don't forget that the original Radiance, the glantrian one, is now connected to the Sphere of Entropy, not Energy. So we have an Entropic Radiance and an Energetic ones. I think it should be more like an Energy Radiance tainted by Entropy, and an Energy radiance. After all, the Nucleus is still an artifact of Energy, it just utilizes the force of Entropy. >Well, in WotI they were allies and thus cooperated in their studies, though I don't think Rafiel told Rad about his secret project. I think that even if he did, Rad wouldn't be too angry about it. After all, Rad stands for knowledge and research, and the more research is being done, the better. >Do you think it was a good idea to have Rafiel's nucleus completed now? Wasn't it too early? Seems fine to me. Depending on what the Shadow Elves plan to do with it. >Do you like having the SE shamans cast spells on the DoD? Doesn't it umbalance the game? Not really, since usually most PCs aren't shadow elves. And NPCs can have any sort of power, because it's controlled by the DM. >What about allowing the SE shamans to cast spells on the surface too (i.e. without a Soul Crystal), would you like it? Maybe we should set heavy restrictions (eg. physical damage due to the use of Radiance, or a limit on the number and level of spells that can be casted on the surface without a Soul Crystal) Perhaps there could be the same risk that comes from using the Nucleus, i.e. there is a small chance of contacting a rotting disease on your body. >Can you think other uses for the new Radiance? Most likely it allows the use of Radiance spells. This could result in the creation of another 'Brotherhood of the Radiance', which could either cooperate with the old Brotherhood or be its rival. >What about the Immortals? How will they react? And the Old Ones? The Immortals will likely try to determine whether this new Radiance has the same effect as the old one (draining magic). If it does, we could have a new WotI on our hands! If it doesn't then the sphere of Energy is once again going to be rising above the others, and other Immortals may try to do something about it. As to the Old Ones, they will probably just keep and eye on things and see if the Immortals really learned their lesson. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 18:12:50 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Brannart and his lichdom >One problem with that part about "being allowed in by Rad" -- what happened >during they years that Rad was not around? Were no new members able to join the Brotherhood from 1009-1012 or so? >> >Not only that, but since House Crownguard is so bitterly opposed to the d'Ambrevilles then why should Rad allow so many of that family and its allies >into the Brotherhood. IMO the BoR pretty much governs itself and the Radiance. >Rad's participation is limited to Etienne being there as a Brother. Yes, but remember that Rad can cut off anyone from using the Radiance, yet he has allowed Crownguard to use it. IMO Rad doesn't really care if Brannart & Co. are his enemies. Since they were clever enough to discover the Radiance, he allows them to use it as a reward. Rad values intelligence and knowledge above any petty squabbles. >I also think that most Brothers suspect who each other are. Glantri Gaz offers >an example of one such meeting and it is filled with references to Brothers speaking with a slight accent. If a Brother is smart enough to get in the BoR, >then surely they can use the ole brain matter to get a pretty good idea who each Brother is. Plus a Brother showing up with a whithered arm or other body >part is bound to be recongized for its worth by another Brother who himself may very well bear simular afflictions. That was my thought as well. They should most certainly make the connection between the disappearance of Etienne and the absence of their leader. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 17:50:49 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MODULE X13, Crown of Ancient Glory At 14.05 22/05/98 -0400, John Yu wrote: >DM pontificated: >>PS: DJ Sahlas, you're the oldest member of the MML after its creator, Leroy "Orion" van Camp III.. My compliments! :) >How did you find out the length of membership? I simply checked the first digests of the List (September 1995) and the first person to write after Leroy was Jim Salhas.. :) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 11:56:04 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - Lathan's Gold and the isles of dread A while back, Tomas asked me to elaborate on what is found in the module "Lathan's Gold". I had trouble finding the module and only recently unearthed it. The following writeup is not embellished at all, but it is also not direct quotation. The directional descriptions reference the large map of the known world found in X1. Make of it what you will. The Three Sisters Keys: This cluster of 3 islands is found south southwest of the main island of Ierendi. "The Three Sisters of the Sea" reside here and can possess creatures (in the module it was a parrot) in order to speak through them. They have the ability to teleport individuals to other keys (possibly beyond) but only for a short time. At the end of this time the voyager returns to the Three Sisters. Insect Island: East and just a tad north from the Three Sisters. This island is also almost due south of the city of Ierendi. Worms and beetles infest the island and have a habit of getting into rations. Termite Atoll: North east of Insect Island, this atoll attracts salt-water termites. 2-7 will attack any ship in the vicinity for each day spent here. Spider Isle: South of Termite Atoll and just slightly west. It is also the small island that is north of the Isle of Dread. The Temple of Arachne is on this isle and it is surrounded by 8 pillars. Webs stretch between the pillars and the roof of the temple is shaped like a spider. One of the pcs, named Octave (Thyatian perhaps?) is a priest of a diminishing order which seeks this temple. Finding the temple will prevent his order from disbanding entirely. Skeleton Key: West of Spider Isle, and a little south, is Skeleton Key. Thousands of bones litter the island. They are the remnants of the "Aquapopulus War". This war was fought between merpeople and humans. The merpeople surrounded the isle... No Name Island: Lies to the North east east of Spider Isle. A sandbar with small inedible plants growing on it... Pirate Rock: To the south of No Name, Pirate Rock serves as a place for pirates to bury treasure. Burning Mountain: A volcanic mountain with loads of raw gold lies to the east of Pirate Rock. A whirlpool lies to the southwest. The volcano is active and presents danger as one collects the raw gold. d10 x 100 (unrefined) gold is found for every hour of searching. East Key: North of Burning Mountain and South of Thyatis City lies East key. No description. I hope this was useful to someone... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 17:56:37 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac Alex Benson wrote: <> Well, my personal explanation is that now that the NoS drains energy from the Sphere of Entropy, there are some nasty side effects, among which the spreading of chaos in the area around the NoS.. Basically, lack of Entropy generates.. more Entropy! I know it's weird, but hey: that's Mystara ;) But now that the Chamber of Stars is complete, i guess there will be a new balance on Mystara among the Spheres.. though i'm not so sure.. just my PERSONAL prognostications, so don't take them for granted: i'm not the official seer of the Mystara almanac.. ;) PS: i really liked the odes! ;) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 12:09:15 -0400 From: Chris Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Longinus character Pierre Savoie wrote: >>Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 04:48:06 EDT >>From: Alex295 >>Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara >>I have found is one of Barry Sadler's novels of the "Casca" series. The early >>the ones that Sadler spent more time on in his research. All are seen through the eyes of Casca Rufio Longius, who served originally as a Roman Legionaire. >>Due to the inability to die (long story) he is a forever living person. He spends time doing a little bit of everything, but mostly he serves as a soldier (part of the curse). >It sounds a lot like Longinus, played by Sebastian Roche, in the short-lived television series ROAR (1997) which was set in a fantasy Ireland. That character couldn't die either. They shouldn't have stopped that series, which in a sense was pure D&D. I'd give a lot to hear the immortal line, "Fergus, ya bloody fool!" one more time. Longinus was supposed to be the Roman Legionaire who woundedChrist in the side with his spear, and was cursed to live forever. As stated he had a character in ROAR and was also represented in the movie "The Seventh Sign" Just for those who didnt already know! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 18:12:54 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago: many many problems.. (LONG) Hi everybody! I was skimming thru X1 because a big termite by the name of Doubt was eating away my brain and i finally located the source of my troubles. However, i also spotted other inconsistencies that i hadn't noticed previously (mind you, i ran the adventure 6 years ago and i wasn't so well informed on Mystara as now, so i think it's understandable these things escaped me so far), and i want to discuss them here if you don't mind. Now, the main thing i was looking for was the name of a deity worshipped in Tanegioth which i seemed to recall, and i found it in Mantru village: here the local "priest", Umlat, is the Speakmouth of Oloron, Lord of Skies. Now i ask you: who might this Oloron be? Some Immortal associated with Sky/Air or Sun/Energy? It must be an Immortal normally revered by the racial stock that settled the archipelago long ago (was it Tanagoro tribes sealing westwards?).. I had in mind two possibilities: either Ixion or Korotiku.. Second thing: from the names of the villages and of the chieftains i inferred that the racial stock of the Tanegiothians is similar to Makai, but does this mean they're black-skinned (i cannot seem to find any reference to skin tone on X1)? And if so, are they Neathar (like the Makai) or Tanagoro? And when did they settle the archipelago? Also, they seem to have a matriarchal culture BUT with a great difference from RW matriarchies: here women REALLY have political and ruling powers, the males being instead in charge of the military and maybe of religion.. Third: the module says the kopru domination over the isle ended because their human slaves revolted. When did this happen in your opinion? Also, who built the Great Wall that divides the mainland from the peninsula where the tanegiothians live? And why was it built (IF your answer to the previous question is not: "the same tanegiothians that live on the peninsula")? Fourth: What's the relationship between the villagers of Mantru (on the plateau) and the kopru and their slaves who live in the Forbidden Island on the plateau? Are they the last descendants of the old slaves who now live there to "guard" the isle from the kopru's return? And do the other islanders who live beyond the Great Wall know of this Mantru village (i dare say no)? Fifth: In the last section of the dungeon inside the Forbidden Island, note n°51 (Hidden Throne), who do you think belongs the human (?) skeleton who sits on the throne and holds a sword +2 (charme) and ring of telekinesis (for this should be the domain of the kopru..)? Why is he here? An adventurer victim of the kopru or what? Sixth: Where do the rakasta who live on this isle come from (may be answered in Bruce's article)? And what about the phanatons and araneas? For these last two groups, i think they simply took the wrong exit in the interplanar highway when migrating from Thorne to the Prime (they were traveling along the araneas and phanatons who dwell in Isle of Dawn -see M5- but lost in the interplanar crossing..): might be? Seventh: some names of the clans who dwell in the southern part of the isle are strange. In particular, Elk clan (elks on Tanegioth??? Must be an error by Moldvay) and Hawk clan: i'm not an expert but i don't think these two animals typically dwell in this climate/latitude... am i wrong? Eigth: i don't think that the tanegiothians could spend up to a maximum of 5000 gp while trading with foreigners, as Moldvay writes. First, because there are only 2100 people on the isle (southern "civilized" part), and this means they should have got an average of more than 2 gp income per person. Second reason is i don't think they've even got coins, but they more probably barter among themselves and with foreigners.. Your opinion? Ninth: the tanegiothians have clerics among their ranks, in particular the most prominent figure is that of the Zombie Master. Now i ask you: what kind of faith/religion do you think they follow? Don't think it's Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 18:51:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #348 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 4b9ef50b3adfcd88621e36b15cc68252 animistic, but rather they worship specific immortals: who might these be? IMHO Nyx is a good candidate (for the importance of Zombie Masters), though i have doubts: i mean, if she was really involved, then the ZM should have the duty to turn all people into undead (for that is a better race) and maybe the people should not be so frightened of undead ("Zombies are our friends!"). Another one could be Protius, and maybe also Korotiku, Diulanna and Ixion..? Tenth and last: there is an encounter with gargoyles inside the island (N°13). Now obviously gargoyles cannot mate and are not natural creatures, so somebody must have created them and placed them there: who, why and when? I guess it's a magic-user: could he still be living there? And what are his pourposes? Maybe another would be creator of a "Jurassic Park"? Okay, that's all, sorry for the long post ;) PS: If anybody is interested or if the discussion becomes really too long for the list, we might consider the idea of forming a discussion group to detail Tanegioth.. think about it, ok? ;) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 09:15:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Curtis Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best modules- do we have a concensus? Geoff Gander wrote: >As it stands, we seem to have agreed that B10 (Night's Dark Terror), and X11 (Saga of the Shadowlord) should be resurrected. I also remember some support for X4 and X5 (The Desert Nomad series), too. >So, my question is, how are the rest of you voting? Definitely the Desert Nomad series. X2 (Chateau D'Ambreville) deserves some recognition being a true classic. X11 is also an excellent choice. However, I plan on voting for CM1: Test of the Warlords for the fourth spot. It kicked off the Companion level campaign with the land grab in Norwold, and had a whole bunch of excellent adventures all in that module. BONUS: If CM1 ended up making the list, TSR would also have to republish D&D's old War Machine and Siege Machine rules since CM1 involves players creating dominions and running armies. I have nothing against B10, I've just never played it. Those I've talked to who've played it do highly reccomend it. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 12:19:44 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Brannart and his lichdom >One problem with that part about "being allowed in by Rad" -- what happened during they years that Rad was not around? The scheduled meetings probably continued, but in the absence of Rad. >Were no new members able to >join the Brotherhood from 1009-1012 or so? definately not. no one else could've been allowed in if Rad was missing. >Not only that, but since House Crownguard is so bitterly opposed to the d'Ambrevilles then why should Rad allow so many of that family and its allies into the Brotherhood. Rad's priorities lay most heavily in his quests for the truth in any of his personal queries. This is why he created the BoR. He would risk anything to get the answers that plague him the most. This was shown when he was brought to the attention of how the Doomsday device could possibly lead to the extinction of life on Mystara and he didn't care as long as he could get the answers to what he wanted to know so badly. This is why a petty squable between families is ignored completly for the chance to help Rad out in his studies. >IMO the BoR pretty much governs itself and the Radiance. Rad's participation is limited to Etienne being there as a Brother. Rad is the known leader. I agree with you to a point with this here. They do act like brothers at the meetings, but it's obvious that since Rad knows more about the radiance, the BoR's members, and schedules the meetings, he is the leader overall if one was to be seen as such. >Plus a Brother showing up with a whithered arm or other body part is bound to be recongized for its worth by another Brother who himself may very well bear simular afflictions You should remember that the meetings are not done in person. They are all conducted magically through a form of telepathy, in which they all may share thier thoughts with eachother, but keep their appearences hidden. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 12:19:41 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class >Well, If I was an elf 300 years old, and just beginning my adventuring career, I'd figure that I'd know how to cast spells wearing plate mail. It seems logical. It doesn't deal with experience with magic, it deals with encumbrence. The art of casting most magics, deal with speach and hand gestures. That's why mages don't wear helmets or wear any type of armor, even leather armor. It restrains them from the body movement they need to execute a spell. >Also, I'd figger, elven armor is more flexible too :) It's not more flexible. It's made out of the same metals as any other armor would be. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 12:30:26 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class >I don't remember reading that before. Where does it state that you must have a >Thaco of 2? That doesn't seem right considering they allow multiple attacks at >such early levels compared to AD&D. <> Thanks Leroy. In checking it over, i forget whom it was that stated a thaco of 2 was needed, but that's not entirely accurate. You must be level 12, and be able to hit your target with a natural roll of a 2. Which means if you were 12th level (Thaco 9) and your target had an AC 7, you could use multiple attacks. OTOH, if you had a thaco of 2, and your target had an AC (-2) you would not be able to use multiple attacks on your opponent. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 12:33:22 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac << Well, my personal explanation is that now that the NoS drains energy from the Sphere of Entropy, there are some nasty side effects, among which the spreading of chaos in the area around the NoS.. Basically, lack of Entropy generates.. more Entropy! I know it's weird, but hey: that's Mystara ;) >> Why would this generate more entropy, and why would chaos be spread around the NOS? and even if it were, since the NOS is so far underground, would it really effect Glantri? - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 18:34:38 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Info on modules At 18.29 24/05/98 EDT, Dleggend wrote: >Can anybody tell me what are these modules about and if they are any good. >X8 Drums on Fire Mountain Something about devil swines ruling a small island (Tekia-nura-ria) with head hunters near Thyatis >M? Five Coins for a Kingdom M4, it's about a city (Lighthall) in Norwold that disappears and only five coins are left in its place. The PCs must travel thru the galaxy to discover what's behind it. If you want some more info, look into my site at this URL: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/prodlist.html DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 18:57:49 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Brannart Almanac At 19.23 22/05/98 +0300, Aleksei wrote: >And now, some reasons why Brannart can't be dead: 1.By D&D rules, liches don't need a phylactery. Really? where is this mentioned? D&D rules never detailed liches in any way, IMHO. They simply say: a lich is a powerful mage that attained undeath and can paralyze with bare touch. Pfui! This is not a lich: this is a ghoul-mage if you ask me! And if D&D doesn't mention liches need a phylactery, this doesn't mean it says they DON'T need it.. >2.Even by AD&D rules, Brannart is a Radiance lich, so he doesn't necessary have a phylactery. A phylactery is created by a wizard when he is preparing himself for lichdom, which Brannart didn't do. Possible, but i share Alex's opinion that his phylactery is somehow his Radiance Receptacle because of his special tie with NoS and the way he became a lich.. >3.Do you really think he would be so foolish as to keep his phylactery where anyone could find it? It's probably not anywhere near his castle. Any self-respecting mage has a faraway safehold (possibly in a pocket plane), where nobody can get. Really? Never underestimate the enemy: never heard of a spell called Lore or Contact Outer Planes? Better than free net access... ;) >4.Even then, any self-respecting archmage has a few clones/simulacrums/other death-escaping spells ready. It's really tough to permanently kill an archmage! Sure, but can a lich clone himself? Noooo (read the spell description)! >Sorry, Brannart just happens to be my second-favorite character in Mystara. BTW, we never really said he is dead and gone forever: only that Angus hopes he's killed him forever... muuhhahhahaha... ;) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 13:20:04 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Almanac << This is worth considering. However, having read a litle about American history, I started thinking about the US Midwest. That region was once considered the great American Desert, but after some improvements in agriculture the lands were transformed into a very fertile area. A litle magic might do the trick... :) Håvard >> Hm, yes, and right now US Americans have to discover that it wasn't a good idea. With a little magic from underground working shamans the steppes would prove disastrous for every farmer. Jamuga Khan "Please no flame war and no farmland on the steppes." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 16:37:45 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Info on modules << X8 Drums on Fire Mountain M4 Five Coins for a Kingdom >> ^ | X8 is a good one with a nice story and many, many treasures. Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 18:29:14 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Radience On Mon, 25 May 1998, Rob wrote: >Elf reactor would need to use soul crystals as fuel to keep it running. Hmm. This could be interesting. But since soul crystals are relatively sacred, burning them up in the Radience seems very foolish. As does consuming magic items. (I NEVER liked engines that ran on swords +1 and the ilk.) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 18:36:18 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class On Mon, 25 May 1998, Inconu wrote: >It doesn't deal with experience with magic, it deals with encumbrence. The art of casting most magics, deal with speach and hand gestures. That's why mages don't wear helmets or wear any type of armor, even leather armor. It restrains them from the body movement they need to execute a spell. Whose to say that the way elves cast magic is exactly the same way human mages do? But even if it were, After hundreds of years in practice, I probably could learn to execute the same gestures in a suit of mail that I could excecute in no armor at all. >It's not more flexible. It's made out of the same metals as any other armor would be. So? The armor is designed by elves, for elves, specifically to allow freedom of movement so they can cast spells wearing it. What it is made of is not as important as *HOW* it is made. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 23:27:39 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Radience At 22.33 24/05/98 -0400, SteelAngel wrote: Interesting idea. >>Can you think other uses for the new Radiance? >Well, from my understanding, The new radience could be used as a source of extreme strength, and could be used to save the ailing twisted Canolbarth permanently. True, in fact this was another reason for having the nucleus completed now. >But restricting its use to only SElves would SEVERELY unbalance the game. They could easily take over a place like Glantri on the DoD. I stick with my "power seep" theory. Another option would be to put severe restrictions on its use by SE too. For example: shamans need very powerful soul crystal to use this new form of Radiance, they need to be close to City of the Stars... Moreover they need to know what to do with it. By now SE have discovered just one use of the New Radiance (casting spells on the DoD), but the're can be a few more and it would take some time to learn all of them. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #348 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:50:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #349 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 6d1f77742fbd2ed5046d9035825a8985 mystara-digest Tuesday, May 26 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 349 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Radience Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Radience Re: [MYSTARA] - Info on modules Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago: many many problems.. (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago: many many problems.. (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - Longinus character Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - The Brannart Almanac [MYSTARA] - The best D&D module Re: [MYSTARA] - Best modules- do we have a concensus? Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class [MYSTARA] - Gareth 5 : Gareth = a new Initiate ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 00:03:10 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Radience At 10.02 25/05/98 EDT, Alex295 wrote: >Which brings up a good question. How has the Radiance itself changed since its >changeover from Energy to Entropy? Surely there has to be some added affects and spells with this differing source of power. True. Unfortunately G:KoM (sorry Marco :) doesn't tal about it. >Actually I was wondering when that thing was going to be finished. And its completion came at a vital moment. Well, our series of events about the Schattenalfen invasion certainly has some problems (on the logistic and military side, I mean), but I really love the final event. ><> >Actually, I have no problem with casting on the surface. However, I would give >the new Radiance a limited range both above and below ground. Say the power only works in a diameter that would cover bother Shadow Elf Territories and Aengmor. >I would not go with the whithering affects of overuse as seen with the Glantrian version. As an unmodified version, it may not cause those problems. Id think that Soul Crystals could be used to store energy to go out beyond the >barriers/limitations. But given their properties, use would remain solidly placed below ground. These were some ideas we (me, Herve, Thorf and Nicholas C. Bambakidis) came up with in June 1997: 1) The New Radiance works in a sphere of xxxx miles in diameter around City of the Stars, where xxxx is enough to cover both Shadow Elf Territories and Aengmor. This way Shamans can use their "clerical" spells above ground too, since they don't need a Soul Crystals any more. However they cannot cast the powerful Spells of the Radiance, because they still need a Soul Crystal for this ones. (The latter is meant to keep teh agme balanced). 2) Shamans can cast spells on the surface, but they need a "strenghtened" Soul Crystal. You can make one of these special Crystal, by placing a standard Soul Crystal in the chamber for a certain lapse of time. Obviously this would make "strenghtened" Soul Crystals very rare and limited to very high level shamans. If this umbalance the game, then we can have the user of "strenghtened" Crystal suffer from Glantri-like diseases. Though I like idea-1 better, I must admit that idea-2 can give birth to interestin adventure opportunities: imagine, for example, a mage that steals a "strenghtened" Soul Crystal so that he can cast Radiance spells... well, until the SE find him, of course :) >I'd like to see this new radiance as very influential in the rebuilding of the >Canolbarth Forest. Enhancing the current bevy of nature based spells is an obvious venue to this. Very good. >Placing armors and weapons in its chamber for a year or so embues the armor and weapons with magical properties. Of course the quality will have to be excellent or else the weapons erode. >And how about the Radiance making Lightening Zombies who act as the protectors >of it. In particularly those SE slain defending the Temple from the invading Shattenalfen. Placed in the Temple after the battle as a sign of honor, they were discovered as lightening zombies the next day. Both nice ideas. I like the one about armors and weapons very much. >The Immortal that immediately comes to mind though is Rafiel. IIRC his reason for ordering the construction of the reactor was to prove to himself he was still sane. Now that it is done, will he be active with it or will he focus his attentions elsewhere? And of course he will have to officially change some >of his teachings for the SE. This was addressed somewhat with the new Almanac. >But some Rafiel inspired teachings should now be coming. His original teachings were focused on survival, now they should change to reflect the current status of the SE. Yes, probably a new set of teachings would be needed, sice the SE race is no more in life-danger. (You cannot imagine how long we discussed about that Wanderers thing you can find in the new Almanac :) Maybe this could go together with Porphyriel achieving immortality. Yes, yes, yes... you gave me some very nice ideas. Thanks :) ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 00:02:57 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Radience At 16.16 25/05/98 +0100, Rob wrote: >I thought it was a climactic end to the Schattenalf invasion... Good Stuff! Thanks. >If they dont use Soul Crystals I would have thought that they suffer all the restrictions of the Glantrian Radiance mages. Notably receptacles (the soul crystals themselves?) or a limited range from their NoS. And of course, rotting. Or all of them together :) >According to the Verse of Immortality (I think) Rafiel is attempting to show the Shadow Elves the way to Immortality. BTW - what about Porphyriel ascending to Immortality? It seems shes done a good job, finishing off the reactor... I dont think we've had an ascension yet in the Net Almanacs... Well, we've already removed 2 Shadow Elves (Garafaele and Gilfronden) this year, and Immortality looks a lot like death. Maybe there's no one ready to take Porphyriel place yet, anyway you're idea is interesting. BTW: about Gilfronden. One of the reasons we removed him was because of his odd position after WotI. He was the SE master spy in Alfheim, but he isn't mentioned at all in the PWA. Some DM may have him still with the elves in Wendar, some other may have him dead during WotI or back with his true brethren. To avoid any possible problem we decided to remove him. >One notable fact is that the Glantrian NoS was "altered" by the Old Ones. Presumably Rafiels has not. As to the potential differences here, I dont know. The NoS doesnt need fuel, like a RW nuke reactor. Perhaps the Shadow Elf reactor would need to use soul crystals as fuel to keep it running. (Uranium, anyone?) Or perhaps it consumes magic items, like a Spelljammer Furnace helm??? Soul crystals as fuel... mmmh... interesting. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Leader of Privateers - Student of Aerospace Enginnering Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 19:01:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Info on modules >Can anybody tell me what are these modules about and if they are any good. >X8 Drums on Fire Mountain This was neither a great nor a bad module IMO. I think some tinkering could definitely improve it, but it is a good hack-n-slash module as set up. The basic story is this - some strange beings and sea orcs have been plundering Thyatian ships. A merchant hires the PCs to rid the seas of this terror, which is being organized by Kalnaka, the major villain of the module and one who might make a decent recurring enemy. This earth is a sacred trust. To turn away from G-d's creation, to despoil that creation, is to violate any sense of spirituality. - Paul Tsongas, 1995 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 21:16:38 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago: many many problems.. (LONG) Marco wrote: >Now, the main thing i was looking for was the name of a deity worshipped in Tanegioth which i seemed to recall, and i found it in Mantru village: here the local "priest", Umlat, is the Speakmouth of Oloron, Lord of Skies. Now i ask you: who might this Oloron be? Some Immortal associated with Sky/Air or Sun/Energy? Ixion is a possibility. It must be an Immortal normally revered by the racial stock that settled the archipelago long ago (was it Tanagoro tribes sealin >westwards?).. I had in mind two possibilities: either Ixion or Korotiku.. Perhaps both are worshipped - maybe Oloron is like a composite Immortal with many facets, an both Ixion and Korotiku are worshipped when Oloron is. Some RW cultures worship different aspects of deities, so why couldn't that happen here? The people of Thanegioth may have some Tanagoro blood in them, but Oltec is more likely IMO, due to the presence of Yasuko tribespeople in northern Davania, and the Atruaghins to the north. Who knows, IMO these islands were inhabited by many successive cultures, some of which were no doubt totally wiped out by the conquerors. Could it be that Taymoran kingdoms once existed here? If you subscribe to my Carnifex mythos, then certainly the islands were inhabited for a long time. Second thing: from the names of the villages and of the chieftains i iinferred that the racial stock of the Tanegiothians is similar to Makai, but does this mean they're black-skinned (i cannot seem to find any reference to skin tone on X1)? I don't recall there being any references to skin colour either, though if there were the adventure would likely just call them "dark-skinned". And if so, are they Neathar (like the Makai) or Tanagoro? Maybe a mix? And when did they settle the archipelago? This is where you'd need to exercise some creativity. AFAIK no one's come close to determining this, though Matt said he had some ideas. How about it, Matt, any ideas here? >Third: the module says the kopru domination over the isle ended because their human slaves revolted. When did this happen in your opinion? Assuming you follow my Carnifex theories, the Kopru (IMO) rose and fell several times - I made some notes once where I figured they could have had three or four separate empires, each lasting around a thousand years or so, but all ultimately collapsing because their mental powers could only control so many people, and they had a tendency towards infighting (hey, they're a competitive, domineering race - they don't take well to following orders). Assuming the first Kopru empire arose circa BC 7000 - BC 6800, and allowing for a few centuries between empires to allow former slaves to try their own nation-building before being reconquered, or being wiped out by invaders (who are enslaved by the Kopru later on), you could easily have the last Kopru empire collapsing around BC 2000 - BC 1500 or so. Enough for the current inhabitants to have forgotten their former overlords, and remember only enough to vaguely fear the interior... Also, who built the Great Wall that divides the mainland from the peninsula where the tanegiothians live? And why was it built (IF your answer to the pprevious question is not: "the same tanegiothians that live on the peninsula")? Perhaps a more advanced bunch of inhabitants (Taymorans?) built it to keep out the Kopru-led forces that occupied the major part of island. Maybe they tried to colonize the island, found hideous savages under the sway of ugly cephalopod/amphibian overlords, and decided that this was the best way to keep them out. Ultimately, the enemy breached the wall and killed the Taymorans, but their great creation survived to the present day. Some time between then and now, those natives who settled amongst the ruins adopted some of the Taymoran Immortals, and could have started wroshipping Oloron that way. >Fourth: What's the relationship between the villagers of Mantru (on the plateau) and the kopru and their slaves who live in the Forbidden Island on the plateau? Are they the last descendants of the old slaves who now live there to "guard" the isle from the kopru's return? And do the other islanders who live beyond the Great Wall know of this Mantru village (i dare say no)? Could be, I see no reason why they couldn't be descended from slaves (maybe everyone on the island is). >Fifth: In the last section of the dungeon inside the Forbidden Island, note n°51 (Hidden Throne), who do you think belongs the human (?) skeleton who sits on the throne and holds a sword +2 (charme) and ring of telekinesis (for this should be the domain of the kopru..)? Why is he here? An adventurer victim of the kopru or what? I think he could be a leftover of a Kopru attempt to show a "human face" to their slaves. Maybe they had one charismatic fellow under their sway who acted as "Mouth of the Gods", and who wielded a "Great Knife" (sword - could have been plundered from more advanced Taymorans ages ago, and given to the pawn as a symbol of office) to keep everyone in line. Maybe he was so much in the Kopru thrall that when they lost control, he died... Sixth: Where do the rakasta who live on this isle come from (may be aanswered in Bruce's article)? And what about the phanatons and araneas? For these last two groups, i think they simply took the wrong exit in the interplanar highway when migrating from Thorne to the Prime (they were traveling along the araneas and phanatons who dwell in Isle of Dawn -see M5- but lost in the interplanar crossing..): might be? Could be. I'm not an expert here. >Seventh: some names of the clans who dwell in the southern part of the isle are strange. In particular, Elk clan (elks on Tanegioth??? Must be an error by Moldvay) and Hawk clan: i'm not an expert but i don't think these two animals typically dwell in this climate/latitude... am i wrong? The module is wrong - these names should just be changed. >Eigth: i don't think that the tanegiothians could spend up to a maximum of 5000 gp while trading with foreigners, as Moldvay writes. First, because there are only 2100 people on the isle (southern "civilized" part), and this means they should have got an average of more than 2 gp income per person. Second reason is i don't think they've even got coins, but they more probably barter among themselves and with foreigners.. Your opinion? You're right here - they function by barter, in all likelihood. >Ninth: the tanegiothians have clerics among their ranks, in particular the most prominent figure is that of the Zombie Master. Now i ask you: what kind of faith/religion do you think they follow? Voodoo? Don't think it's animistic, but rather they worship specific immortals: who might these be? Ixion and Nyx, maybe? >IMHO Nyx is a good candidate (for the importance of Zombie Masters), though i have doubts: i mean, if she was really involved, then the ZM should have the duty to turn all people into undead (for that is a better race) and maybe the people should not be so frightened of undead ("Zombies are our friends!"). Another one could be Protius, and maybe also Korotiku, Diulanna and Ixion..? Maybe they pay lip service to her, out of fear. Some culture do that - pay respects to gods they fear so that they will be appeased and not decide that sinking their continent would be a fun way to pass a dull Thursday afternoon. :-) >Tenth and last: there is an encounter with gargoyles inside the island (N°13). Now obviously gargoyles cannot mate and are not natural creatures, so somebody must have created them and placed them there: who, why and when? I guess it's a magic-user: could he still be living there? And what are his pourposes? Maybe another would be creator of a "Jurassic Park"? Maybe the Kopru trained wizards during one of their empires (who then revolted later on, convincing the Kopru that teaching magical arts to slaves is not a good idea). Hope this helps anyone who's interested. I'll contribute if I can. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 23:03:02 EDT From: Magesmiley Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago: many many problems.. (LONG) In a message dated 98-05-25 12:26:28 EDT, you write: << Now, the main thing i was looking for was the name of a deity worshipped in Tanegioth which i seemed to recall, and i found it in Mantru village: here the local "priest", Umlat, is the Speakmouth of Oloron, Lord of Skies. Now i ask you: who might this Oloron be? Some Immortal associated with Sky/Air or Sun/Energy? It must be an Immortal normally revered by the racial stock that settled the archipelago long ago (was it Tanagoro tribes sealing westwards?).. I had in mind two possibilities: either Ixion or Korotiku..>> I'm going to guess that it might actually be Attruaghin. The seemingly agelessness of the priest reminds me of the life of Attruaghin and I also believe the islanders are descended from the Attruaghin Clans (see reasons below). <> Based on the information I was able to glean from the module in the few minutes I looked, I believe that the Archipelago is inhabited by people originating from the Attruaghin Clans. The Elk, Tiger, and Sea Turtle clans on the island are also the names of three of the five clans in the Attruaghin Clans (the Hawk clan may have once been a major clan in the Clans once also). Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:50:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #349 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 6d1f77742fbd2ed5046d9035825a8985 The animal totems mentioned are reminiscent of the Children of Attruaghin. Here is my proposal: Sometime between 400BC and 0AC a diverse group of the Children of Attruaghin fled south across the sea (for reasons unknown at this point, perhaps unrest in the Sind region or humanoids). They eventually settled the Thanegioth Archipelago. Another option might have them travelling the majority of their journey across the Serpent Penninsula instead of crossing the Sea of Dread. An idea for developing a culture might be to use the Native American culture of the West Indies (prior to Columbus) as a basis. Its an idea anyway. - -Mage *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 23:53:31 -0400 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Longinus character Chris wrote: >Longinus was supposed to be the Roman Legionaire who woundedChrist in the side >with his spear, and was cursed to live forever. As stated he had a character in ROAR and was also represented in the movie "The Seventh Sign" Longinus, (Logginos transliterated from the Greek), or Saint Logan, is the Roman Centurion who converted to Christianity upon witnessing the death of Christ. He was martyred and his feast day is celebrated on October 16th in the Orthodox church. The character in "The Seventh Sign" is a different judeo-christian figure, I believe, and may only be mentioned in apocryphal accounts of the gospel, (if I'm wrong, please e-mail me directly and not the list). I'm not even going to try to make this post Mystara-related! (Please forgive the transgression). Just felt a correction was in order ;) Jim "armchair theologian" Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 00:04:51 -0400 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac Well, just read the half of it so far (not even - I got to the debate between Harald of Haaskinz and Terari, after the atlas descriptions). I just have to say that I'm impressed thus far, and the writers seem to have really captured the spirit of the different nations. Good job, guys! As to the debate between the two mages, that was really well done. One of the projects I'm working on is a story/novel about a mage in Mystara as he works his way up through the academia magica. As I've been involved in role-playing throughout my own academic career, I've styled it to parallel the personalities, bureaucracy, and situations I've encountered. The debate was in that same vein (and I found it thoroughly enjoyable!) Get back to you in a few weeks about the events of the year themselves ... Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 00:29:05 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara In a message dated 98-05-24 16:05:11 EDT, anpro@accesocero.es writes: >There is a RW paralell to the sinking of Alphatia: when the isle of Thera eexploded in ancient times (around 1300 BCE, if my memory does not fail), it produced tidal waves which run well into mainland Egypt, some thousands of miles to the South; the Pharaoh himself had to come to the zone to take emergency measures, so the damages had to be severe. Then the effects of the sinking of Alphatia were nowhere near severe enough - -- if the destruction of a small island like Thera can so that much damage, what would the destruction of a larger land mass do? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 00:11:41 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Brannart Almanac >Really? where is this mentioned? D&D rules never detailed liches in any way, IMHO. They simply say: a lich is a powerful mage that attained undeath and can paralyze with bare touch. Pfui! This is not a lich: this is a ghoul-mage if you ask me! And if D&D doesn't mention liches need a phylactery, this doesn't mean it says they DON'T need it.. And this doesn't mean they DO need it :) >>4.Even then, any self-respecting archmage has a few clones/simulacrums/other >>death-escaping spells ready. It's really tough to permanently kill an archmage! >Sure, but can a lich clone himself? Noooo (read the spell description)! Hmm, suppose Brannart cloned himself *before* he became a lich. Could be interesting... >>Sorry, Brannart just happens to be my second-favorite character in Mystara. >BTW, we never really said he is dead and gone forever: only that Angus hopes he's killed him forever... muuhhahhahaha... ;) That much I guessed :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 02:03:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - The best D&D module >Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 09:59:36 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Best modules- do we have a consensus? >Hey, >Have we reached any sort of consensus regarding the reprints of the best modules of all time, D&D-wise? I would have to say Five Coins for a Kingdom (M4) was the best one, just on the basis of the "There are those who call me...Tim?"- like magic-user on the cover. Or maybe I'm just a sucker for adventures concerning the reunification of matched sets of magic- thingies. Coin-collecting was never like this! Also worth dusting off is Earthshaker! (CM4) Pit that against Godzilla in your campaign and see who wins. And what do people think of Rahasia (B7), the Tracy and Laura Hickman module written originally for the RPGA? Of course, I haven't bought *everything* TSR published (what, do I look CRAZY TO YOU?) For certain years TSR was dependent on the knee-jerk buying-reflex of AD&D drones, but nowadays they may have to design products with real quality. After all, if the quality slips just a little, people get bored and go play CCGs. One can hope... Is there some particular place we are supposed to send in "ballots" to decide this matter? Five Coins for a Kingdom...tastes great, less filler! - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 02:08:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best modules- do we have a concensus? My 3 are B10, X11, and the Desert Nomad series. Not quite sure what my last choice going to be. It might not even be a Mystara one, or I might just write in B1-9... Adam Curtis pontificated: >BONUS: If CM1 ended up making the list, TSR would also have to republish D&D's old War Machine and Siege Machine rules since CM1 involves players creating dominions and running armies. The Desert Nomad series includes X10 on the ballot, so War Machine rule would probably also be included with that if reprinted. This just occur to me. Supposely the reprint will have new art works. Which modules would have the most interesting Mystara arts? - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 08:18:38 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Almanac ><< Well, my personal explanation is that now that the NoS drains energy from >the Sphere of Entropy, there are some nasty side effects, among which the spreading of chaos in the area around the NoS.. Basically, lack of Entropy generates.. more Entropy! I know it's weird, but hey: that's Mystara ;) >> Reading WotI I think thats supposed to be bad for Entropy. Its the reason why Hel was Master Stroked and Thanatos took her place. Just like it was bad for Energy when it was draining power from that Sphere. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 07:15:41 EDT From: Inconu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class << Whose to say that the way elves cast magic is exactly the same way human mages do? But even if it were, After hundreds of years in practice, I probably could learn to execute the same gestures in a suit of mail that I could excecute in no armor at all. >> It seems like we just disagree on this point, as i've already replied to these comments before. >>It's not more flexible. It's made out of the same metals as any other armor >>would be. >So? The armor is designed by elves, for elves, specifically to allow freedom of movement so they can cast spells wearing it. What it is made of is not as important as *HOW* it is made. I don't see why you think Elves are such incredible armorers. If it were possible to create such an armor than there would be no reason for humans not being able to create the same. Could you also be more detailed in how you believe Elven armor is made, because as far as i know it's created just like any other armor is made. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:21:37 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class In a message dated 98-05-26 07:28:19 EDT, Inconu writes: << > Whose to say that the way elves cast magic is exactly the same way human mmages do? But even if it were, After hundreds of years in practice, I probably could learn to execute the same gestures in a suit of mail that I could excecute in no armor at all. It seems like we just disagree on this point, as i've already replied to these comments before.>> I have to agree with the original poster in that (in IMO at least) that the elves being a magical race have some special bind with the magical energies that allow spellcasting. Whereas human mages have to work to cast a spell, elves come by it quite naturally. IMO even in using AD&D rules an elf does not have to use spell components to cast a spell. The same thing with other magical creatures such as dragons. <<> It's not more flexible. It's made out of the same metals as any other aarmor >>would be. >So? The armor is designed by elves, for elves, specifically to allow freedom of movement so they can cast spells wearing it. What it is made of is not as important as *HOW* it is made. I don't see why you think Elves are such incredible armorers. If it were possible to create such an armor than there would be no reason for humans not being able to create the same. Could you also be more detailed in how you believe Elven armor is made, because as far as i know it's created just like any other armor is made. >> Well both have valid points here. Why should elves be such great armourers if they stereotypically spend their lives frolicking in the forest? IMO elven skill with their chainmails come from the amount of time they can dedicate to the construction. >From what I remember, elven chain is so special because it is so light. Personally I care little for elven plate and there would have to be some tie to the campaign to necessitate its inclusion. And IMO all chainmail elves wear are elven chain cause it was most probably elves that created it. Just like chain made by a human forger is human chain. But that does not mean that elves have so many suits that they literally trip over them while doing all of that frolicking in the woods. Which brings up an interesting idea. If elven chain allows spellcasting, then what "bonus" does chain crafted by dwarves afford? Added magical resistance (Save bonus). Imagine special Dwarven Plate that offers an added bonus to Save vs. Dragons Breath Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 15:48:57 CEST From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Gareth 5 : Gareth = a new Initiate So far, we have hypothetized that Gareth is an alternate ID for some known Immortal, and tried to come up with explanations as to why they keep their true ID hidden and why they set up this unusual faith. But, what if instead of an addition to one Immortal's beliefs, it was indeed a new Immortal's portfolio? That's what we'll explore in this 5. Gareth = a new Initiate. Such a possibility has already been mentioned in a way in the post about Benekander (Benekander is a young Immortal) and in the posts about Loki and other Entropics. Let's take it one step further. There are again basically two very different possibilities here: either the Initiate is true in his belief, or he's masquerading as a good Immortal. The latter possibility is the one that involves the Initiate being an Entropic, while in the earlier he's probably of one of the other spheres. Let's review the spheres: Matter: This is certainly a good sphere for Initiate Gareth. Matter favors law and order, which are implied in Gareth's faith. Matter is also often concerned with the preservation of species (esp. Ka) which is also a consequence of Gareth's faith in the sense protecting mortals for the Immortals' petty games. Ka sponsored Gareth to protect the mortals from the Immortals themselves. Energy: Probably not a good sphere for Gareth. Energy tends to be wild and chaotic, very unlike Gareth's teachings. Besides, Gareth's faith undermines Ixion's power base in Sind, which would be a bad move for an Initiate of Energy. Exception is made for Benekander. Time: One of the major goals of time is to teach mortals and Immortals the lessons of history (Khoronus). After the events of the WotI, the wars that it caused for a quarrel between Immortals, and the fact that an Old One had to intervene to stop it, Immortals of Time have decided to remind both mortals and Immortals the consequences of their acts. This is why Khoronus sponsored Gareth. Thought: The sphere's goal is to make people think (Korotiku). Gareth tries to make mortals think by themselves instead of relying on the words of Immortals. With this new faith and by declaring he's returned from the Vortex (an idea of Korotiku's), he's also making Immortals ponder on many subjects (including their own actions, the importance of mortals, the Old Ones). Entropy: Much discussed already in Loki and other Entropics posts. It is a masterpiece of lying and betrayal (unless good PCs investigate..), with the main drawback that the Initiate is not promoting his own beliefs and thus putting himself at great risk if his plot fails. Principium: Since the four good spheres are tied to the four elemental planes and Entropy is tied to the Negative Plane, it has been theorized by many sages and Immortals that maybe there could be a forgotten 6th sphere, Principium, which would be tied to the Positive Plane and directly oppose Entropy. Could Gareth be the first Immortal of Principium? Could it be that Rad, when his mind is altered by the Old One and he returns as a better man, returns not as an Immortal of Energy but the first of Principium? Could it be that the major blow struck to Entropy by the change in source of power for the NoS is the fact that it has recreated the hated Sphere of Principium? Can you see now why Hel suffered such a major stroke and Thanatos was not so pleased with his being back Hierach of Entropy? Could it be that Synn was sent in Glantri to shut down the NoS who is now an artifact of Energy producing Immortals of Principium by tapping into the sphere of Entropy? (heck, I love that scenario. I'm sure it'll start a much heated debate. hmm, could evil Brannart now killed by Angus have thereby become the second Immortal of Principium?) In that case, we link to the post about Rad being Gareth, but with a new twist to it. And Loki has reasons to grin, just like Hel and Thanatos. Why did no one answer when question arose among Immortals as to who that Gareth could be? For Energy and Principium, no one knows. For Entropy, Loki knows but doesn't tell; he just smiles. For Time, Thought and Matter, Khoronus or Korotiku or Ka doesn't tell because it would reveal their plan. Why start in Sind? Well, as good a place as any. For Principium, there is the additional reason that it's as close to Glantri as can be, and the only Immortal of Principium certainly wants to secure the NoS from the Entropics; as Rad he already has his word there, but having an ally as a neigbhour isn't bad at all (better than having Bozdogan, anyway). The main problem with the new Initiate theory is that, how could he get so much followers/power in such a sort time? Well, it would seem that whatever the sphere there is a powerful Immortal (or force, for Principium) behind, that may be of great help. For any of the three spheres that would have Gareth as a regular Immortal (Time, Thought, Matter), it certainly works best in individual campaigns if you have PCs that are trying to achieve Immortality. In that case, have a PC be sponsored by one of the three old Immortals, a PC that has about the same ethics as Gareth, et voila. For Principium, well, that is giving the world a whole new direction. Especially interesting if your campaign is Immportal-level, or if your PCs have something to do with the Nucleus. _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Almanac page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #349 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 17:41:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #350 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 9ff47cd860b86c5d5fbc2fcf3d7536b8 mystara-digest Tuesday, May 26 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 350 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Longinus character [MYSTARA] - Methods of magic [MYSTARA] - Almanac Stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - Brannart and his lichdom [MYSTARA] - MISC: Savage Coast NetLogo Contest Organization Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago: many many problems.. (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - The best D&D module Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago: many many problems.. (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - The best D&D module Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago: many many problems.. (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - Master of Hule Re: [MYSTARA] - The best D&D module Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago: many many problems.. (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - Master of Hule RE: [MYSTARA] - The best D&D module [MYSTARA] - The best D&D module Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class Re: [MYSTARA] - Master of Hule Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class [MYSTARA] - Web page update Re: [MYSTARA] - Web page update ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:34:31 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Longinus character In a message dated 98-05-25 12:16:50 EDT, you write: << > >I have found is one of Barry Sadler's novels of the "Casca" ssseries. The early >>the ones that Sadler spent more time on in his research. All are seen through the eyes of Casca Rufio Longius, who served originally as a Roman Legionaire. >>Due to the inability to die (long story) he is a forever living person. He spends time doing a little bit of everything, but mostly he serves as a soldier (part of the curse). >It sounds a lot like Longinus, played by Sebastian Roche, in the short-lived television series ROAR (1997) which was set in a fantasy Ireland. That character couldn't die either. They shouldn't have stopped that series, which in a sense was pure D&D. I'd give a lot to hear the immortal line, "Fergus, ya bloody fool!" one more time. Longinus was supposed to be the Roman Legionaire who woundedChrist in the side with his spear, and was cursed to live forever. >> The Casca Rufio Longinius in Sadler's books is supposed to be the same Roman that plunged the spear into the crucified Christ. In the books the thrust was intended to put him out of his misery. Not exactly a sign of mercy, but to get himself out of the duty as commander of the troops assigned to the crucifixion site. In doing the deed, he ingests a drop of Christ's blood as it runs down the shaft of the spear and onto his hand (wipes sweat from brow). As such, Casca is cursed to walk the earth as an undying soldier until the Second Coming. Casca is undying yet feels the elements and hungers of mortals. He can be "slain" but his body heals itself and he revives. I have read of him being burned, stabbed repeatedly, drowned, shot, frozen to death, poisoned, buried "alive", starved, sacrificed by Aztecs, etc. At each death he asks himself if he has suffered enough to be allowed to die. As darkness takes him, he hears the voice of Christ saying "until we meet again". This has given him cause to seek out self proclaimed Sons of God. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:57:11 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - Methods of magic At 09:21 AM 5/26/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-05-26 07:28:19 EDT, Inconu writes: I have to agree with the original poster in that (in IMO at least) that the elves being a magical race have some special bind with the magical energies that allow spellcasting. Whereas human mages have to work to cast a spell, elves come by it quite naturally. IMO even in using AD&D rules an elf does not >have to use spell components to cast a spell. The same thing with other magical creatures such as dragons. Interesting stuff. I agree that there should be a difference in the way magic is practiced from human to elven to dragon. I had started a discussion on this a while back regarding Alphatian magic vs Glantrian. Just to get us started how about this: Magic--where does it come from? Not being constrained by AD&D definitions, we could come up with something really unique. Is all magic generated from the Radiance? Obviously not, magic existed in the time of Blackmoor. The "mysterious field" that caused the Beagle to crash was sort of a field of magic. So does magic have some effect on technological equipment? I would say yes. I think Blackmoor's great strength, and eventual destruction, was the ability to meld the two into something that was neither. Alphatians don't understand the Blackmoor art, nor do Glantrians, nor do elves. The power that existed in Blackmoor, a melding of science and fantasy, is as alien to modern mages as Federation technology was to Uther's educational institutions. But I digress. Okay, so the Flaemish use elaborate gestures. Their fiery movements and sharp spoken words are only a little less overwhelming and intimidating than the magic itself. This sort of thing is seen in all Glantrian cultures to some degree. But with the Averoignians, for one example, the "flair" takes on a different form. They do all their magic with a particular style, but the differences are likely only noticed by someone familiar with both styles. Elves--I see them as using subtle movements and quiet words. One hardly even notices the action until the result happens. Alphatians--So familiar with magic it can be said they live and breathe it. An Alphatian can actually speak to another Alphatian using the language of magic. Components are used, but in a way that differs from other worlds. The Alphatians know the art of using spell components to enhance their magic. For instance, the spider root plant can be used to increase the power of binding type spells. A web spell that uses spider root, consumes the root and provides extra strength to the spell. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 06:52:17 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Almanac Stuff To the Almanac Team: Hey, looks great! -- I would have said something sooner but I've been on holiday (ah bliss!) for the last week. Lucky for me, thought, that I don't have an email box content limit -- yikes! Haven't actually read most of it yet -- I don't own any of the published almancs and so I've never looked much at the net-almancs but I did skim the first few to fall into my email box. I just /had/ to comment on the following: >KLARMONT 1, AC 1015: Ierendi Crown Tourney. LLocation: Ierendi. OW >[...] >At one point during the competition, a woman in the crowd goes into labor. The adventurers stop their tourney and rush to aid the woman, as do a few others in the crowd. [...] >The young woman is often called "Strawberry" by the locals due to her gardening skills at growing the fruit. As for the name and gender of the child, you'll just have to ask Strawberry. Heh, very cute fellas -- I'm honoured. Hmmmm..... I wonder if this is an omen that I should avoid concerts and other stadium events at the end of September / early October?? So much for 'Page and Plant' then... ;-) BTW: *This* Strawberry won't know the gender until after the real-world "big day", but I'll be sure to inform Joshuan so he can ensure an the Almanac is accurate. Jenni - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things *I* like!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 12:07:31 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Brannart and his lichdom In a message dated 98-05-25 12:34:51 EDT, Inconu writes: >Were no new members able to >join the Brotherhood from 1009-1012 or so? definately not. no one else could've been allowed in if Rad was missing.>> None stated in G:KoM (DM insert scream here) that I can recall. <<>Not only that, but since House Crownguard is so bitterly opposed to the dd'Ambrevilles then why should Rad allow so many of that family and its allies >into the Brotherhood. Rad's priorities lay most heavily in his quests for the truth in any of his personal queries. This is why he created the BoR. He would risk anything to get the answers that plague him the most. This was shown when he was brought to the attention of how the Doomsday device could possibly lead to the extinction of life on Mystara and he didn't care as long as he could get the answers to what he wanted to know so badly. This is why a petty squable between families is ignored completly for the chance to help Rad out in his studies.>> That and the rivalry could even promote the BoR. Conflict often sees advances in technology as the need speeds developement. Perhaps the rivalry fills that role. As Crownguard speeds its researches (hence the afflictions) to gain advantages in the BoR. >IMO the BoR pretty much governs itself and the Radiance. Rad's participation is limited to Etienne being there as a Brother. Rad is the known leader. I agree with you to a point with this here. They do act like brothers at the meetings, but it's obvious that since Rad knows more about the radiance, the BoR's members, and schedules the meetings, he is the leader overall if one was to be seen as such.>> But Rad is rarely in attendance. And even when he is he is there as two people Rad and Etienne. Kinda cool if ya think about it. >Plus a Brother showing up with a whithered arm or other body part is bound to be recongized for its worth by another Brother who himself may very well bear simular afflictions You should remember that the meetings are not done in person. They are all conducted magically through a form of telepathy, in which they all may share thier thoughts with eachother, but keep their appearences hidden.>> Not talking about seeing each other in person at these meetings. But in their true identities the brothers appearance is seen including whithered parts. Meetings are done through their recepticles. The voices are disguised but Glantri Gaz does mention that each Brother's voice does bear a faint accent. What I speak of are everyday meetings. To the average Joe, this is not recognizable. But a fellow Brother could very well recognize the affliction for what it is. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:13:33 +0000 From: Elton Robb Subject: [MYSTARA] - MISC: Savage Coast NetLogo Contest Organization Okay, It's time to get this contest organized. 1. Who wants to devote web space for the logos? 2. Who wants to be the judge? The Deadline for the images is August 24, 1998. That should give you artists enough time to design a logo and submit it. Remember: 1. The images must be original. 2. No one can submit more than three images. It's time to get this contest off the ground. - Elton Robb Knight of the Crown. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 12:40:52 EDT From: Duncan TKD Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago: many many problems.. (LONG) Could the Kopru be related to mind flayers? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 12:46:37 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The best D&D module On Tue, 26 May 1998, Pierre Savoie wrote: >people think of Rahasia (B7), the Tracy and Laura Hickman module written originally for the RPGA? This is IMHO the single most complex adventure I have ever run. I have never run that adventure in less than 3 sessions. There's just so much to do, and so much that can go wrong (like having half your party turn into statues. Oh.. that was _fun_, Or maybe they'll attack and kill Elyas's Snake-man. That helped out a LOT too. ) Otherwise, it is one of the coolest adventures made! But be prepared to use some creative DM'ing when the players do something that really puts a damper on their chances of completeing the adventure. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 12:53:31 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class On Tue, 26 May 1998, Inconu wrote: >comments before. True enough. >I don't see why you think Elves are such incredible armorers. If it were possible to create such an armor than there would be no reason for humans not being able to create the same. Could you also be more detailed in how you believe Elven armor is made, because as far as i know it's created just like any other armor is made. I beleive that in the Complete book of Elves, there may be some description of Elven Armor, also, The Alfheim Gaz may have info too, but seeing that that particular gaz is the second rarest gaz in existence (Behind Glantri) I'd go with what is in the CHB. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 12:59:05 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago: many many problems.. (LONG) << Tenth and last: there is an encounter with gargoyles inside the island (N°13). Now obviously gargoyles cannot mate and are not natural creatures, so somebody must have created them and placed them there: who, why and when? I guess it's a magic-user: could he still be living there? And what are his pourposes? Maybe another would be creator of a "Jurassic Park"? >> I've introduced a great column in the northern part of the island on which a gargoyle is sitting. This point is the jump point for "teleportation" by some high-level wizards who call Thanegioth "Monster Catching Place Number One". Those gargoyles might set be loose by some wizards for unknown reasons. Jamuga Khan "Hear and repeat: There will always be a Great Khan!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 13:29:35 -0500 From: "Thomas J. Mahaney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The best D&D module >>Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 09:59:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 17:41:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #350 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 9ff47cd860b86c5d5fbc2fcf3d7536b8 >>From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Best modules- do we have a consensus? >>Hey, >>Have we reached any sort of consensus regarding the reprints of the best modules of all time, D&D-wise? For sentimental reasons I still love B2-Keep on the Borderlands, by far the best of the "introductory" modules. I also really enjoyed B? The Veiled Society. My players still talk about chasing thieves through the city! I also agree the B10 Night's Dark Terror is one of the best. It seems that the modules which came out of the UK were some of the best (including UK AD&D modules). There was also a great D&D module in one of the Dungeon issues - The Wererats of Rellfin (or something similar). Thomas J. Mahaney II Help Desk Coordinator Office of Information Technologies Lederle Graduate Research Center Lowrise University of Massachuetts Amherst, MA 01003 tmahaney@oit.umass.edu (413) 545-2692 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 13:33:21 EDT From: JamugaKhan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago: many many problems.. (LONG) << >Now, the main thing i was looking for was the name of a deity worshipped in >Tanegioth which i seemed to recall, and i found it in Mantru village: here the local "priest", Umlat, is the Speakmouth of Oloron, Lord of Skies. Now i ask you: who might this Oloron be? Some Immortal associated with Sky/Air or Sun/Energy? Ixion is a possibility. It must be an Immortal normally revered by the racial stock that settled the archipelago long ago (was it Tanagoro tribes sealin >westwards?).. I had in mind two possibilities: either Ixion or Korotiku.. >> Don't forget the possibility of a connection to the Pearl Islands... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 19:37:39 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Master of Hule Mystaros wrote: < True Body of the Master (+3 or better magic weapons needed to hit; only takes damage from the magical bonus of weapons unless Taymoran in origin; immune to cold and electricity, resistant to fire)>> WOW! Those are quasi-immortal resistances.. <> Oh, c'mon! There cannot be a vampire-mummy, and you know it, since u have access to Van Richten's guides (the above definitions are drawn from those books, i know ;)). A vampire is a creature linked to the Negative Material Plane while the mummy is linked to its opposite, the Positive Material Plane (that's what makes it truly unique IMHO), so a mummy-vampire is a contradiction in terms: it's like having a creature made of matter and anti-matter at the same time.. It cannot be, even in a fantasy campaign! ;p <> Heck! What's his XP value then, with these powers? And you say he is not an immortal: well i guess it's a matter of points of view.. Like saying a lich or demilich is not an immortal.. Really, with his powers i don't understand why he doesn't use his own TRUE body to go around and destroy his enemies: he's much more powerful and nearly undestructible!! He can rejuvenate, and this is far more powerful than regeneration, you know, uh? Give him the Illusion power of ancient dead (basically an illusionary self-polymorph) and his followers won't be able to tell he's an undead! There are really no reasons to leave his (THIS) true body unprotected in a Sanctuum and not using it.. << When a character dies of this rot, he will rise again after three nights as a Bhut under the Master's control.>> Bhut are not undead IIRC.. maybe you mean "dusanu". Bhut are were-people that turn into horrible blood sucking creatures who resemble scaly ghouls but are not undead. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 14:53:31 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The best D&D module At 12:46 PM 5/26/98 -0400, you wrote: >On Tue, 26 May 1998, Pierre Savoie wrote: >>people think of Rahasia (B7), the Tracy and Laura Hickman module written originally for the RPGA? >This is IMHO the single most complex adventure I have ever run. I have never run that adventure in less than 3 sessions. There's just so much to do, and so much that can go wrong (like having half your party turn into statues. Oh.. that was _fun_, Or maybe they'll attack and kill Elyas's Snake-man. That helped out a LOT too. ) >Otherwise, it is one of the coolest adventures made! But be prepared to use some creative DM'ing when the players do something that really puts a damper on their chances of completeing the adventure. I am currently running this beast! I have always been impressed with this module, but I have never had such an appreciation of its complexity. What happens if the pcs all go to the roadside shrine and get captured by the Siswa? What if Rahasia is captured as well? This pretty much happened. Now I have to decide, did Rahasia somehow escape? Is she now the 3rd witch? I was not entirely clear with the party about what happened to Rahasia after the last one was knocked unconcious. So she COULD have slipped away somehow... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 14:55:42 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago: many many problems.. (LONG) >"Hear and repeat: There will always be a Great Khan!" There will always be a Great Khan. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 15:00:16 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Master of Hule At 07:37 PM 5/26/98 +0200, you wrote: >Mystaros wrote: ><< When a character dies of this rot, he will rise again after three nights as a Bhut under the Master's control.>> >Bhut are not undead IIRC.. maybe you mean "dusanu". Bhut are were-people that turn into horrible blood sucking creatures who resemble scaly ghouls but are not undead. Actually, iirc, they are considered both undead AND lycanthropes. Interesting how Mystara breaks all the rules, eh? I just tossed some thouls at some (normally) AD&D players. An npc helpfully informed them of the combination involved (ghoul, troll, hobgoblin). Of course the reaction was "yikes! And probably the worst of all 3! Hey, wait a minute...how can you breed living and dead together??" IMO there are plenty of explanantions for this. But I prefer to keep my pcs guessing! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 21:03:30 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - The best D&D module I would choose B4, The Lost City, mainly because its balance of detailed backround and freedom to let the DM create a saga of his own (probably my studies of Egyptology and Ancient Near East make me a bit biased). It is great to run as a second adventure for your PCs: start with B2, Keep on the Borderlands (one of my favorites, too), which can be placed around Castellan´s Keep or even near to the Ylaruam border. Make one of the evil guys in that module run away (the Chaotic priest, probably) and have the PCs stage a wild chase which takes them tho the desert. There, a sandstorm takes them to the pyramid. B4 makes an easy transition from Basic to Expert levels and forces (in the expanded adventures which are suggested for the DM to develop) the players to involve the PCs in a story, not just the simple hack-and-slash into which many low-level adventures degenerate. I also like the HWA series; they have a fine pre-WotI plot which could recur later in the campaign, but I guess that they are still quite easy to find at stores. Last week, I found a games store here in Spain where I could buy the HW Boxed Set, Dawn of the Emperors, M4 and HWA1-3, and everything with a 30% discount, because, they said, "it was old stuff"!! Andreas de Skie *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 15:29:22 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - The best D&D module If we can tilt the vote in favor of just one D&D module, I will be happy. For this reason, I am sticking with Geoff's original suggestion. All the modules mentioned by everyone were excellent. I love to read "why" someone thinks a particular one is the best or his favorite. But for the purposes of getting our setting republished, I really hope everyone finds something in Geoff's list that he can agree with. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 21:06:36 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class >>I don't see why you think Elves are such incredible armorers. If it were possible to create such an armor than there would be no reason for humans not >>being able to create the same. Could you also be more detailed in how you believe Elven armor is made, because as far as i know it's created just like >>any other armor is made. >I beleive that in the Complete book of Elves, there may be some description of Elven Armor, also, The Alfheim Gaz may have info too, but seeing that that particular gaz is the second rarest gaz in existence (Behind Glantri) I'd go with what is in the CHB. >Max IV It doesnt say a great deal about it. However, it does imply that AD+D elven chain (a magical item) is not standard equipment for elves - most use conventional chain. Looking at the Alfheim gaz, it says that elven cloaks and boots are also Not Standard - only a few select elves have them. As the Trees of Life are used to make all elven gear in Mystara, seems only reasonable that somehow they are used in theb creation of elven armour. Or perhaps the dwarves, in a distant, friendlier past, gave the elves the secret of making elven chainmail... Who knows? Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 21:10:10 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Master of Hule ><> >Oh, c'mon! There cannot be a vampire-mummy, and you know it, since u have access to Van Richten's guides (the above definitions are drawn from those books, i know ;)). A vampire is a creature linked to the Negative Material Plane while the mummy is linked to its opposite, the Positive Material Plane (that's what makes it truly unique IMHO), so a mummy-vampire is a contradiction in terms: it's like having a creature made of matter and anti-matter at the same time.. It cannot be, even in a fantasy campaign! ;p I dont know... Mummies are presumably Nyx's creatures as opposed to Thanatos' (IMC I have assumed that non energy draining Undead are Nyx's, whereas some(all?) energy drainers are Thanatos'). He could have initially been a Nyx mummy, who got corrupted by Thanatos' Nennaya Sherat. ><> Bit of a hard nut then, eh? Watch out Strahd - theres competition on the block... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 16:22:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Shin Chyang Yu Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class Rob pontificated: >It doesnt say a great deal about it. However, it does imply that AD+D elven chain (a magical item) is not standard equipment for elves - most use conventional chain. Looking at the Alfheim gaz, it says that elven cloaks and boots are also Not Standard - only a few select elves have them. The elven magic swords are made of wood with saps from ToL (IIRC). So, maybe the elven chainmail are also made of specially treated wood, thus the lightweight and flexibility. - -- John Yu, scy2g@virginia.edu | *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 14:14:19 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Web page update Mystara online for today Almanac html project - -------------------- Transfer of Savage Coast Complete Files complete Transfer of Alphatian Sea Files 25% Complete to be completed Tommorow. check it out at Mystara Online at Http:members.tripod.com/~mktriton/index.html ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 16:30:09 -0700 From: Joseph Elric Smith Servant to Arioch Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Web page update well I tried it an it didn't work. thanks ken >check it out at Mystara Online at >Http:members.tripod.com/~mktriton/index.html >______________________________________________________ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #350 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 09:43:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #351 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 18bd87a6f3f95c2a9a9686b878f9c9dc mystara-digest Wednesday, May 27 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 351 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar [MYSTARA] - Ierendi, immortals, and confusion Re: [MYSTARA] - Ierendi, immortals, and confusion [MYSTARA] - Game-blowing moves [MYSTARA] - Fun with Longinus Re: [MYSTARA] - Master of Hule Re: [MYSTARA] - Fun with Longinus [MYSTARA] - Ghouls Re: [MYSTARA] - Ghouls Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - Best modules- do we have a concensus? [MYSTARA] - Stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - The best D&D module Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff [MYSTARA] - mages/armour Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago: many many problems.. (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class [MYSTARA] - Karameikos map Re: [MYSTARA] - Ghouls Re: [MYSTARA] - The best D&D module Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago: many many problems.. (LONG) [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please read and respond! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 15:07:24 PDT From: "Buck Satan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar I've been running a campaign for a while, and I have an Ethengar character. I have all the PWA and stuff, but I'm missing Gaz 12. I would like to know if Ethengar characters have any special bonuses or penalties. I think they have a bonus with shortbow's, but I'm not sure. I'm talking about a regular fighter character, and a thief, if they have any special abilities. I'd really appreciate help in this matter. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 15:11:25 PDT From: "Buck Satan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ierendi, immortals, and confusion Hey, this question is a bit like my last one: I've been running a campaign with an Ierendian character (a cleric to be exact, whose very anti-social, unlike most Makai) and I'd like to know if they have any special abilities, bonuses, or penalties as I don't have Gaz # 4. I also wanted to know what immortals are worshipped form Ierendi. In the PWA, it says Al-Kalim, but I can't relate how an Immortal from Ylarum is worshipped in Ierendi. I was thinking Protius, but that seems kinda far-fetched. Help would be really appreciated. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 16:02:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ierendi, immortals, and confusion - ---Buck Satan wrote: >Hey, this question is a bit like my last one: I've been running a campaign with an Ierendian character (a cleric to be exact, whose very anti-social, unlike most Makai) and I'd like to know if they have any special abilities, bonuses, or penalties as I don't have Gaz # 4. I also wanted to know what immortals are worshipped form Ierendi. In the PWA, it says Al-Kalim, but I can't relate how an Immortal from Ylarum is worshipped in Ierendi. I was thinking Protius, but that seems kinda far-fetched. Help would be really appreciated. In Ierendi the native worship the immortals through druidic principles. There are also two main church: *The People's temple* is the most attended, perhaps because it's an informal religion. Each community has its own ceremony and magic is often diplayed. It's talking about love and generosity. No know immortal involve, just a certain *force*. *The Eternal Thruth* is the other. It has taken its place among the military elite (because of it's aggressivity) and with the traders conducting business with the "powerful" seafaring Ylari traders. enjoy! == - -------------------------------------------- Tharquil's French D&D Homepage at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/5201 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 19:45:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Game-blowing moves >Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 12:46:37 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The best D&D module On Tue, 26 May 1998, Pierre Savoie wrote: >people think of Rahasia (B7), the Tracy and Laura Hickman module written originally for the RPGA? >This is IMHO the single most complex adventure I have ever run. I have never run that adventure in less than 3 sessions. There's just so much to do, and so much that can go wrong (like having half your party turn into statues. Oh.. that was _fun_, Or maybe they'll attack and kill Elyas's Snake-man. That helped out a LOT too. ) >Otherwise, it is one of the coolest adventures made! But be prepared to use some creative DM'ing when the players do something that really puts a damper on their chances of completeing the adventure. Yeah, I'm *very* creative in those situations [how do you spell an "irony" emoticon?]... Me: "The Chromatic Jell-o pounces on you. It's made with club-soda so it dissolves your armor and then your skin. Boom, you're dead." Hapless player from my old gang, such as Glen Sprigg: "But, but...I'm the only one who knows the combination of the Great Tumblers of Antioch, as revealed to me in an ancient scroll." Me: "Hmm, that WOULD affect outcomes later on, wouldn't it? Oh, all right then. Boom, you're alive, and the Jell-o shrivels up in disgust. Maybe it doesn't like cuirbouilli leather, you just don't know." [slips note to a fighter-player:] <> :-) But in running Rahasia I got a flash of UPOD (Uncanny Powers of Description) and described a magical stone lift as having blue sapphire walls that shot blue sparks as the stone platform moved up or down the tube with a horrible grinding noise felt in your viscera like a thousand fingernails on the blackboards of your souls...very nice imagery. - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 19:49:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Fun with Longinus >Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:34:31 EDT >From: Alex295 >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Longinus character >site. In doing the deed, he ingests a drop of Christ's blood as it runs down the shaft of the spear and onto his hand (wipes sweat from brow). ... >As such, Casca is cursed to walk the earth as an undying soldier until the Second Coming. Casca is undying yet feels the elements and hungers of mortals. Heh, heh. What ELSE did he touch? If he leaned against a tree on the way home, that tree would not have the good grace to die and rot, and it would become the tallest thing in Jerusalem, the root-system crumbling walls and the nearby buildings. Elves would start taking an interest in it. Did he pat the dog? French-kiss his wife? That would create a whole lot of undying things and then in the game campaign you might as well switch to VAMPIRE rules. People just don't have the sense to keep their blood to themselves... - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) "Forgive my weirdness. I'm listening to RADIOHEAD." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 20:28:55 EDT From: Mystaros Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Master of Hule In a message dated 98-05-26 14:00:05 EDT, you write: <<<< True Body of the Master (+3 or better magic weapons needed to hit; only takes damage from the magical bonus of weapons unless Taymoran in origin; immune to cold and electricity, resistant to fire)>> WOW! Those are quasi-immortal resistances..>> Nearly to the level of one of the Exalted, actually. Check out the AD&D versions of Exalted level beings, i.e., Tanar'ri (Demons) and Baatezu (Devils) and you will find good comparisons for level of power... <<<> Oh, c'mon! There cannot be a vampire-mummy, and you know it, since u have access to Van Richten's guides (the above definitions are drawn from those books, i know ;)). A vampire is a creature linked to the Negative Material Plane while the mummy is linked to its opposite, the Positive Material Plane (that's what makes it truly unique IMHO), so a mummy-vampire is a contradiction in terms: it's like having a creature made of matter and anti-matter at the same time.. It cannot be, even in a fantasy campaign! ;p>> Those are simply the equivalents for level of power and abilities. And as I have stated in prior posts I never adopted the AD&D Cosmology to Mystara, so there is no such thing as a Positive Material Plane IMC. IMC Mummies are powered by the forces of Entropy, just like other forms of undead... <<<> Heck! What's his XP value then, with these powers? And you say he is not an immortal: well i guess it's a matter of points of view.. Like saying a lich or demilich is not an immortal.. Really, with his powers i don't understand why he doesn't use his own TRUE body to go around and destroy his enemies: he's much more powerful and nearly undestructible!! He can rejuvenate, and this is far more powerful than regeneration, you know, uh? Give him the Illusion power of ancient dead (basically an illusionary self-polymorph) and his followers won't be able to tell he's an undead! There are really no reasons to leave his (THIS) true body unprotected in a Sanctuum and not using it..>> The reason that he doesn't go trouncing around at full-blown power are several and detailed, but the MAJOR reason is that if Loki were to allow one of his chief lieutenants on Mystara to go gadding about at his near-Exalted level powers, other Immortals would join in with their own allies and servants. It is much better for The Master to utilize his abilities in a more subdued, long-term gain manner than simply to go beserk on his enemies. For those who think that such foresight is against Loki's manner, remember that we are dealing with him in his Bozdogan aspect, where he is much more cunning and has a lot more to lose (i.e., a whole EMPIRE)... Also, the reason that The Master doesn't go about in his normal body is that a Taymorn Mummy is CURSED by Nyx to ever be revealed for what he/she/it is in it's true form (unless Magic Jarred into another body); illusions don't work on the True Body. Remember, every Taymoran Mummy was once one of Nyx's Chosen, and they turned their backs on her to follow Thanatos... As to Rejuvenation, well, there is for every Taymoran Mummy that was created one special sword that can damage them PERMANENTLY (minor artifacts), from which no source (short of Immortal magic) can heal it. There are said to be seven such swords in the Known World, and the one that can damage The Master was lost beneath the waves of the Sea of Dread some three centuries ago... <<<< When a character dies of this rot, he will rise again after three nights as a Bhut under the Master's control.>> Bhut are not undead IIRC.. maybe you mean "dusanu". Bhut are were-people that turn into horrible blood sucking creatures who resemble scaly ghouls but are not undead. DM >> Quite correct... but the character's death is not so much "death" as "transformation" in this case. Much like lycanthropy, in fact, and it is a curse. To be "cured" of the curse one must first be killed, then have Remove Curse cast by a 14th level or greater cleric and THEN be raised or resurrected. If the Bhut is killed by a blessed weapon, however, the Remove Curse can be cast by any level cleric. Note that this only works for "transformed" Bhuts, not normal Bhut monsters... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 17:29:50 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Fun with Longinus >>site. In doing the deed, he ingests a drop of Christ's blood as it runs down the shaft of the spear and onto his hand (wipes sweat from brow). >>As such, Casca is cursed to walk the earth as an undying soldier until the Second Coming. Casca is undying yet feels the elements and hungers of mortals. >Heh, heh. What ELSE did he touch? If he leaned against a tree on the way home, that tree would not have the good grace to die and rot, and it would become the tallest thing in Jerusalem, the root-system crumbling walls and the nearby buildings. Elves would start taking an interest in it. >Did he pat the dog? French-kiss his wife? That would create a whole lot of undying things and then in the game campaign you might as well switch to VAMPIRE rules. >People just don't have the sense to keep their blood to themselves... >---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) Casca was granted the curse because he dared to feast upon the blood of Christ, not because the blood itself bestows immortality. Thus, your examples were a bit off. JAL. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 20:38:52 EDT From: Mystaros Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ghouls In a message dated 98-05-26 15:21:29 EDT, JDaly wrote: << Actually, iirc, they are considered both undead AND lycanthropes. Interesting how Mystara breaks all the rules, eh?>> I myself have always considered Ghouls and Ghasts to be a special sort of "undead", not truly undead in the same manner as skeletons or zombies or even vampires, but in a manner that simply links them to the powers of Entropy in such a way that they are a "Quasi-" or "Pseudo-" Undead (not quite like the AD&D version of Pseudo-undead). My own inspirations for Ghouls come from Lovecraft and Howard (and sideways, Leiber) in which Ghouls were actually a degenerate species of human or sub-human that had long ago turned cannibal and allied with the various entities of Entropy (and, perhaps in some cases, with the Entities from the Void Between the Stars via the Dimension of Nightmares). So IMC they are affected as per turning due to their intricate ties with Entropy, but they are actually a race that breeds true and has a culture, so forth and so on... Any thoughts? Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 18:27:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Dominique Rivard Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ghouls - ---Mystaros wrote: >I myself have always considered Ghouls and Ghasts to be a special sort of >"undead", not truly undead in the same manner as skeletons or zombies or even >vampires >So IMC they are affected as per turning due to their intricate ties with >Entropy, but they are actually a race that breeds true and has a culture, so >forth and so on... I like the idea of "living" ghouls but I wouldn't go as far as to make them a race that breeds true and has a culture... I would rather have living being turning slowly into undead. Perhaps clerics "training" humans (or others, except elves of course) to eat the living (amongst other things). Then we would have lesser ghouls acting like real one, but without their powers. Upon the end of this special training, the living one would die and the real undead ghoul would rise. When undead, they would gain their powers and continue to eat flesh (bad habits are always hard to break). == - -------------------------------------------- Tharquil's French D&D Homepage at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/5201 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 21:53:21 EDT From: BoBo II Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff In a message dated 5/26/98 3:36:17 PM, you wrote: < Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Best modules- do we have a concensus? Shin Chyang Yu wrote: >This just occur to me. Supposely the reprint will have new art works. Which modules would have the most interesting Mystara arts? Well, it seems to be that the best modules are usually set in some of the best (original) settings. X4 could depict some haunting views of the Evil Abbey looming over the landscape in the light of the setting sun, nestled among the long shadows of the foothills of some of the tallest mountains on Mystara. I think the module was illustrated by Keith Parkinson (the new monsters were especially well done, his portrait of a bhut, for example, doing more for defining the new creature than the text description beneath). The contrast between dark shadows and golden light in his paintings (such as the cover of X11 - Saga of the Shadowlord) would be well utilized in such a subject, furthermore presenting a metaphor regarding the essential nature of the bhuts. The art in X5 was by Timothy Truman, believe it or not (before his career in comic books and other media really took off, I guess) and every illustration in that module is top notch. His drawing of the Temple of Death was inspired and original (I remember I could almost feel the blistering heat of the noonday sun as carrion birds wheeled around that central tower - something both East Indian and H.R. Gigeresque at the same time). If TSR/WotC could get Parkinson and Truman to illustrate the reprinted editions - that would be amazing. Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 22:46:51 -0400 From: David Brian Olsen Subject: [MYSTARA] - Stuff Hi guys! Long time reader, first time poster of the list (if you call a couple of weeks a long time). Although, a long time ago, I was somewhat involved with the Mystara message board on AOL before they cancelled it under the name GeetarSolo. I read through most of the new almanac, including all the events section and like it a lot, especially Morphail's plot within a plot. Sounds typical of Glantrian politics. I find it also most interesting how the almanac itself has become quite a power in its own right. Originally, I believed the almanac was merely an aid for DMs; it never really "existed" in Mystara itself. Of course, that seemed to change when Joshuan took over. But even then, the almanac seemed to be a rather impartial observer. Now, the correspondents and the almanac itself seem to change the course of Mystaran events. Because of the almanac, the efreet have a new enemy in the "Arch of Fire," Favonius Viator was responsible for informing Thyatis about the undersea empire's war, and an innocent interview may have even deepened the rivalry between two great schools of magic. There was such important information in there that some peopled feared it so much that they burned the publication building down! What I'm trying to say is that the almanac is now a force to be reckoned with...even by the rulers of Mystara themselves! As for my favorite module, I'd say X2 Castle of Amber, but I've always enjoyed the eccentricities of the D'Ambrevilles. Hope to write more often in the future! - -David *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 22:45:52 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The best D&D module On Tue, 26 May 1998, Daly wrote: The siswa will put the PCs into the dungeon with Hassan, in seperate cells, this completes much of the dungeon crawl, and I 'd play Rahasia as the third witch Trilena, ONLY if you think your party can take on both the Rahib and the trio. That could be a problem. Or maybe you can set Rahasia in the same dungeon as the PCs and get them all to escape. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 22:52:11 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff On Tue, 26 May 1998, BoBo II wrote: >How about elf chain that is actually elvish scale mail, and if you look close enough, you can see that the scales are golden-hued and leaf-shaped. I like this. But still the point was not magical chainmail. I beleive we were talking about chainmail made flexible enough to allow spellcasting. (Of course, from the chainmail I have personally worn, it's not all that constricting, but weighty. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 19:53:56 -0700 From: "espidell" Subject: [MYSTARA] - mages/armour This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0072_01BD88E0.04D28800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lets get over the elven chainmail wearing mages! The fact of the matter is mages would be far to powerful if they were = allowed to wear armour. All the classes are set up to balance each other out. Lets be realistic. - ------=_NextPart_000_0072_01BD88E0.04D28800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lets get over the elven chainmail = wearing=20 mages!
The fact of the matter is mages = would be far to=20 powerful if they were allowed to wear armour.
All the classes are set up to = balance each other=20 out. Lets be realistic.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0072_01BD88E0.04D28800-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 02:08:04 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class In a message dated 98-05-26 07:28:22 EDT, Inconu@aol.com writes: >I don't see why you think Elves are such incredible armorers. If it were ppossible to create such an armor than there would be no reason for humans not being able to create the same. Could you also be more detailed in how you >believe Elven armor is made, because as far as i know it's created just like >any other armor is made. Elven chain mail is specifically mentioned in the AD&D rules as having properties that not only reduce thieving skill penalties but permit multi-classed Elf mages to cast spells while wearing it. So yes, certain Elves are indeed incredible armorers -- and whatever the secret of making Elven chain mail is, they guard it very closely. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 02:08:06 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago: many many problems.. (LONG) In a message dated 98-05-26 13:38:57 EDT, DuncanTKD@AOL.COM writes: >Could the Kopru be related to mind flayers? In favor of a relationship: Both are amphibians with tentacles around their mouths and superior mental powers. The Mystara Monstrous Compendium suggests such a relationship. Against a relationship: Kopru do not subsist on brains -- in fact, there is no evidence that they eat them at all. The Illithiad describes mind flayers in terms that suggest that they are uniquely horrible creatures. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 02:08:05 EDT From: Kaviyd Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class In a message dated 98-05-26 09:44:22 EDT, Alex295@aol.com writes: >Which brings up an interesting idea. If elven chain allows spellcasting, then what "bonus" does chain crafted by dwarves afford? Added magical resistance (Save bonus). Imagine special Dwarven Plate that offers an added bonus to Save vs. Dragons Breath It grants superior protection -- it is AC 2 rather than AC 3. See the _Arms and Equipment Guide_ or the _Complete Fighter's Handbook_ for more information on various racial armors. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 09:26:05 +0200 From: Marc-Antoine Guidault Subject: [MYSTARA] - Karameikos map Hi Mystarans ... I've seen somewhere on the net a map of Karameikos ( coming from GAZ1 ), but can't remember where. I'd like to use it to enhence my URL page ( publishing modules in this setting ). Can anybody help ? Have anybody seen it ? " Un pour tous ... " A. Dumas Marcus *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 01:39:03 -0700 (MST) From: "Cthulhudrew, The Great Old One" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ghouls On Tue, 26 May 1998, Mystaros wrote: >I myself have always considered Ghouls and Ghasts to be a special sort of "undead", not truly undead in the same manner as skeletons or zombies or even vampires, but in a manner that simply links them to the powers of Entropy in such a way that they are a "Quasi-" or "Pseudo-" Undead (not quite like the AD&D version of Pseudo-undead). That's kind of the tact i took with the Thoul PC race that I wrote up not too long ago. They sort of fill a semi-undead niche on Mystara, as I have it. And I was also slightly inspired by Lovecraft's Cthulhianic ghouls (surprisingly enough ;) >Any thoughts? Just to add that I've thought of an interesting twist for the Goblinus Monstrum Necrosis species of Thoul that I made up- I noted that they enjoy feeding on the dead- what if they enjoy feeding on the *un*-dead, as well? Given their immunities to ghoulish (and perhaps other undead?) paralysis, and their regenerative abilities, they could make a natural predator of lesser undead. Fulfilling a unique niche in the ecology of Mystara. The Undead ghouls are no longer the top of their food chain! - ------------------------ Cthuludrew, the Great Old One (aka Andrew Theisen, mild mannered *former* college student) "Actions have consequences." URL- http://www.public.asu.edu/~jsmill *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 08:54:23 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The best D&D module At 10:45 PM 5/26/98 -0400, you wrote: >On Tue, 26 May 1998, Daly wrote: >The siswa will put the PCs into the dungeon with Hassan, in seperate cells, this completes much of the dungeon crawl, and I 'd play Rahasia as the third witch Trilena, ONLY if you think your party can take on both the Rahib and the trio. That could be a problem. >Or maybe you can set Rahasia in the same dungeon as the PCs and get them all to escape. Thanks alot! I stuck the pcs in the dungeon with Hassan and they escaped. They went UP!!!!! They saw the Rahib, but I screwed up the description a little. It did not really end up being important though. They had some major trouble with the bone golem and then almost died again with the gelatinous cube. They are currently getting all discombobulated in the hallways. Rahasia has either been imprisoned elsewhere, or she has escaped and is waiting in the courtyard. I think I favor her being imprisoned, but having the pcs rescue her "just in the nick of time". Unless they REALLY screw up of course! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 08:56:34 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago: many many problems.. (LONG) At 02:08 AM 5/27/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-05-26 13:38:57 EDT, DuncanTKD@AOL.COM writes: >>Could the Kopru be related to mind flayers? >In favor of a relationship: Both are amphibians with tentacles around their mouths and superior mental powers. The Mystara Monstrous Compendium suggests such a relationship. >Against a relationship: Kopru do not subsist on brains -- in fact, there is no evidence that they eat them at all. The Illithiad describes mind flayers in terms that suggest that they are uniquely horrible creatures. I favor illithids being a related, degenerated, creature with the nasty habit of eating the brains of intelligent creatures. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 09:40:47 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please read and respond! I was just ruminating the other day about the psychological makeup of the common Mystaran. My thoughts basically went like this, "We are used to doing everything ourselves. From the days when our setting was no more than the Known World printed in a module, to the days when Bruce Heard was flying about with Prince Haldemar mapping the outer reaches, we have had to do much of the development of our campaigns ourselves. Therefore, we tend to stay quiet. "We are the sleeping beast. "I believe there are many of us out there. There are many who play a Mystaran campaign of one sort or another--or who at least use Mystaran modules in other campaigns. "We could be an enormous economic asset to any game company that puts out material to attract us. In the absence of good material, we are likely to just continue sleeping. "We are sophisticated (sometimes jaded) enough to look at a product carefully and NOT buy it unless it meets our strict standards. Thus, even if TSR did revive Mystara, they may not see an immediate gain from us. "TSR will be, understandably, wary of reviving Mystara. We have shown a record of being careful what products we buy from them. Nevermind that they taught us to be careful. Never mind it is a direct result of the type of products that were put out, which slowed the purchase of the line overall. "We are the sleeping beast. Will we awaken? Will we rise and demand quality products, and in fact demonstrate quality products ourselves? "If Mystara rose again, like the phoenix, would we be there guiding TSR with constant feedback on which products are desired? Will we instead remain silent, as we have done in the past, and allow TSR to produce juvie material which appeals to no one? Will we allow the company to sink alot of money once again into products that we know will not fly?" These were the thoughts I was thunking. Now, once and for all, let's give it a shot. Let's commit to bringing Mystara back from Limbo and onto the shelves. Only 15 would-be writers have joined MystaraWriters. This is a nice number, but far below what I expected. If you are interested, please respond privately to me. Do it quickly. Do it now. And for Rad's sake! Get on the TSR message boards! I am not asking your to make a lifetime commitment. I am merely begging you to go to the following address and make a single post! There are many good posts to respond to. You don't even have to think up anything original and brilliant. http://tsronline.wizards.com:80/mb/system/addnewuser.shtml Get your thoughts out there. They can't help but notice us. We must stand united or this whole campaign will quickly fall. Many many people responded to the petition drive. I am quite pleased with the results of it. If anyone else (newcomers or whatever) wish to be included on the petition, please email me your address (at the very least include city and country for demographics purposes) and your names. The letter goes out soon! Any thoughts? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #351 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, May 27 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 352 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Fun with Longinus Re: [MYSTARA] - Fun with Longinus Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class [MYSTARA] - MystaranWriters Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago: many many problems.. (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff [MYSTARA] - The best D&D module Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago: many many problems.. (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - The best D&D module [MYSTARA] - Godzillla in the world of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 09:49:21 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Fun with Longinus In a message dated 98-05-26 20:01:55 EDT, Pierre Savoie writes: << >As such, Casca is cursed to walk the earth as an undying soldier uuntil the Second Coming. Casca is undying yet feels the elements and hungers of mortals. Heh, heh. What ELSE did he touch? If he leaned against a tree on the way home, that tree would not have the good grace to die and rot, and it would become the tallest thing in Jerusalem, the root-system crumbling walls and the nearby buildings. Elves would start taking an interest in it. Did he pat the dog? French-kiss his wife? That would create a whole lot of undying things and then in the game campaign you might as well switch to VAMPIRE rules. People just don't have the sense to keep their blood to themselves...>> Aye I think that thou hath misunderstood. His touch is not draining or even empathic. What I meant was that he needs to eat and he feels the cold and heat...you know the elements. So essentially he is a living breathing person but cannot die. Wounds are fatal to him, yet instead a taking the big sleep his wounds repair themselves (regeneration) and he arises. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 10:08:28 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Fun with Longinus In a message dated 98-05-26 20:48:04 EDT, you write: << Casca was granted the curse because he dared to feast upon the blood of Christ, not because the blood itself bestows immortality. Thus, your examples were a bit off. >> Actually the ingestion of the blood was accidental. It's Judea. It's hot. The crucifixion sight is out in the open and the crucified take a long time to die. Casca had a date with an Armenian dancer he did not want to miss. So he hurried the crucifixion along by spearing them. Casca finished off Jesus to end the duty of overseeing the crucifixions. Some of the blood flowing down the shaft of the spear got on his hand. He used that hand to wipe the sweat off his face. A single drop of that blood touched his mouth. Hence the curse was initiated. Casca is not a good guy. He is not a bad guy. As it is seen so often in Sadler's novels "I am just a man, maybe less." The books are actually a good read. Like I said, the earlier ones are the best. More historical research is done on particulars. Some of the events are far fetched, but this is a far fetched idea that bases the entire line. It is a fun read. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 10:43:39 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff In a message dated 98-05-26 23:07:48 EDT, you write: << > How about elf chain that is actually elvish scale mail, and if you look close >enough, you can see that the scales are golden-hued and leaf-shaped. I like this. But still the point was not magical chainmail. I beleive we were talking about chainmail made flexible enough to allow spellcasting. (Of course, from the chainmail I have personally worn, it's not all that constricting, but weighty. >> Well IMO the difference in human and elven armors lays with the race that created it. Humans and elves are so different that their armors would be different. IMO elven chain is finer as more time is taken in its construction. Plus finer chainmail goes with the precept that elven folk are finer themselves. Their horses are finer. Their features are finer. Their houses are finer. All that is fine with me as elven chain is a tool that allows protection as well as allowing the elf to cast his spells. Now if yall want to discuss how armors feel when worn I may be able to contribute. Personally, I have never worn true armor. I have donned baseball catching gear. These devices being constructed of modern high impact plastics and padding are very wearable. However, they do require care when attempting to move about. The shin guards are a Godsend but pinch at the tops of the feet. The mask and helmet are cumbersome and top heavy. Vision is impaired to a point where the wearer developes tunnel vision. That is why you see catchers toss off the mask to chase down a pop fly. Which brings up running in that stuff. Parts of it flopping around and those cursed shin guards feeling like ankle weights. Plus shinguards tend to turn on the leg while the wearer is running, even walking. The gear is hot. Most masks and helmets that i wore were black so the heat was intensified.Chest guards are light but the strapping tends to rub on the back. Often the straps pull the shirt tail out of the pants exposing the bare skin to these straps. The chest protector also has a tendency to bunch up as the catcher squats behind the plate, the top of the padding being pushed up into the mask or in front of the mask. The only way to stop this is to tighten the waist straps thus causing more rubbing to the back. The chest guard also rubs against the armpits and upper arms. Since the padding has a vinyl piping/hem the edeg is quite rough and the rubbing intense. The chin protector hangs below the mask and is prone to catch on the chest padding or fall behind it and dig into the torso. I am not even going to go into the infamous cup as it bring back too many pinching memories. How does this pertain to Mystara? Well, like armor, catching gear is awkward and cumbersome. However, it is vital. I personally know what it is like to be on the receiving end of a pitch both wearing and not wearing gear. For all of its bother I prefer to suit up. Personally, I think the issue of armor is a game tool to balance out the power of a mage versus that of a warrior. Let us face it, the reasons given for why a mage cannot wear armor are pretty weak. Afterall what is the difference between leather armors and flowing robes. This handicap is moot if one uses the ad&d rules option where a mage can commit Prof. Slots. to allow armor. Further muddying the waters..... Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 10:58:45 EDT From: Alex295 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class In a message dated 98-05-27 02:27:59 EDT, Kaviyd writes: << > Which brings up an interesting idea. If elven chain allows spellcasting, tthen what "bonus" does chain crafted by dwarves afford? Added magical resistance (Save bonus). Imagine special Dwarven Plate that offers an added bonus to Save vs. Dragons Breath It grants superior protection -- it is AC 2 rather than AC 3. See the _Arms and Equipment Guide_ or the _Complete Fighter's Handbook_ for more information on various racial armors. >> Thanks. I have neither of these sources. Perhaps it is time I acquire one or both. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 12:10:40 -0400 From: Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - MystaranWriters I believe that we aspiring writers have a good support network with the Mystaran Writers' Guild. Below I will cut and paste various things I have written about it before... The MystaranWriters are a dedicated band of individuals seeking to bring Mystara back into print. We gather in groups of 4-6 and critique each other's writing. Any sort of game material is fine, though adventures suitable for RPGA are strongly recommended. Guide Lines Remember that the purpose of this group is to get out as many well-written, interesting adventures to the RPGA as soon as we can. Of course, they should all be set in Mystara and feature something "unique and defining" regarding our beloved setting. I would encourage use of Immortals in ways that gods CANNOT be used in other settings. Also, articles dealing with aspects of Mystara and AD&D gaming with Mystara can be submitted to Polyhedron. My guess is that general subjects (for example the Rakasta and Lupin articles written by Bruce Heard) are more likely to fly than articles that require Mystara as a setting. However, it should be made clear in each article that the particular element being discussed is from the setting of Mystara. You should all first send a mail to each other introducing yourselves, describing a little about yourselves, and listing good times to post. The next thing to do will be to come up with some sort of deadline (I have found once a week works very well) and whomever is posting that week should have something ready and posted by that time. Boy, that was confusing... So for instance, you may decide that "Stephan Dolan" will be the first to post and that the deadline will be 8(est) on Saturdays. Then he should have something posted by 8 this next Saturday (the 25th). After he posts, everyone can read his submission and have their critiques ready. All comments should be posted by the following deadline (8 on the 2nd of May). You will want to come up with a solid schedule so that everyone knows when they are responsible for posting. Some of you have expressed a desire to not post, but to help out with critiques. This is fine if everyone in your group agrees to it. We now have a writers' message board up on Rob Rickard's site. A mail account has been created which we post to and store all messages on. Never post to the MML. As for format, use simple text (cut and paste) as you can never assume what platforms are being used at the other end. Attachment are welcome if they are under 100k As we start you will pick a leader for your group. The leader should keep in touch with me and let me know how things are going. We will help keep you on track as you start out. Writer's responsibilities: Go to the RPGA site (linked to TSR.com) and read their guidelines. Have something posted promptly when you are scheduled. There is nothing wrong with posting earlier than the assigned time. Critic's responsibilities: The group members are expected to read and comment on the manuscript by the end of the next week, when they will receive another manuscript. The comments on the manuscript should also be posted in the Mystara Writer's forum. The discussion of the story must be polite and it must deal with what is in the manuscript. No psychoanalysis of the author, no comments on how you would do it. Inappropriate comments will be deleted. The purpose of the other writers' comments is to help the author turn the manuscript into the most efficient and effective vehicle for conveying the adventure to the reader. In order to do that, the other writers in the group must understand what the author is trying to accomplish in the manuscript--so that is your first goal. Your second goal in giving feedback is to let the author know where the manuscript did not succeed in conveying the story: where it was unclear, where it was slow moving, and other such places. Feel free to share with the author any questions you had as you were reading the story. Your next goal in commenting is to provide suggestions on how the manuscript may better accomplish what the author intends for it. This is what "constructive criticism" means, at least in this workshop. You do not advise an author to get rid of something without offering an alternative that the author can use. And all through the discussion, you must be polite. The author, all through the discussion, must remain silent, except to say "Thank you," or to ask for clarification of another writer's comments. Any explanations, justifications, elaborations, and so on should be taken care of in the rewrite of the manuscript. You can't explain things that aren't in the manuscript to an editor, so you should get out of the habit of explaining them anywhere else. If, after all feedback has been offered, the author would like to ask for more specific suggestions, or if the author feels that the intent of the adventure was misunderstood and would like help in making that clearer, the author may ask for further discussion along the lines of "brainstorming" with the other writers. No group member is required to participate in this. Even though this "brainstorming" will be less formal, it should still be polite. Also, if the writer would like feedback on a rewritten/revised manuscript, the writer is welcome to ask the group members if they would be willing to read it. No group member is required to read a rewritten/revised manuscript, and is welcome to refuse. Here are the Guide lines from TSR POLYHEDRON: http://www.tsr.com/rpga/InfoFiles/polywrite.html RPGA: http://www.tsr.com/rpga/InfoFiles/trnwrite.html DUNGEON: http://www.tsr.com/faq/submit.html DRAGON: http://www.tsr.com/faq/submit.html Thanks, Jeff Daly -Director Rob Rickard -Tech Consultant *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 13:47:26 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago: many many problems.. (LONG) << >"Hear and repeat: There will always be a Great Khan!" There will always be a Great Khan. >> Good man! I will promote you to a Khan over a conquered territory. Unfortunately you will have to conquer it first. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 13:47:29 EDT From: JamugaKhan@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar << I've been running a campaign for a while, and I have an Ethengar character. I have all the PWA and stuff, but I'm missing Gaz 12. I would like to know if Ethengar characters have any special bonuses or penalties. I think they have a bonus with shortbow's, but I'm not sure. I'm talking about a regular fighter character, and a thief, if they have any special abilities. I'd really appreciate help in this matter. >> O.k., here we go: Ethengarian horse warriors (Fighters) and brataks (thieves) are able to fire their bows from horseback without any penalties. If you use the rule about losing initiative when firing a bow, don't apply it for those bowmen. When aiming they get a +2 to hit bonus and cause an additional 2 points of damage.They arrows are not like those of others: The moraki (light arrow) has a +2 to hit and cause 1d4 points of damage, the takadi (heavy arrow) can only be fired on short range and cause 1d8 pointsof damage. One word to brataks: All belong to the khans, and only a fool would steal anything from the khan. Brataks are scouts and spies, no thieves. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 16:25:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #352 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 63bd9f70ef051c568962053101fc7435 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 13:33:28 -0500 From: "Lord BKis1" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't >Get your thoughts out there. They can't help but notice us. We must stand united or this whole campaign will quickly fall. >Many many people responded to the petition drive. I am quite pleased with the results of it. If anyone else (newcomers or whatever) wish to be included on the petition, please email me your address (at the very least include city and country for demographics purposes) and your names. The letter goes out soon! >Any thoughts? I'm sure this will be the most unpopular thing I have ever writen. But I have to say it anyway. Let us not strive for the return of Mystara to TSR. Let's leave it in our capable hands. Look at what has been done with out the company. I dread the thought of Mystara being as well defined as Forgotten Realms. I play in Mystara because of the fact that it's NOT. There's many holes in it that I get to fill with my own creative designs but there's enough of a backbone to build from. This is a fantastic setting with alot of great support from everyone online. Let's keep it going with out the second rate material from TSR. Thanks. LB1 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 11:48:51 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago >Now, the main thing i was looking for was the name of a deity worshipped in Tanegioth which i seemed to recall, and i found it in Mantru village: here the local "priest", Umlat, is the Speakmouth of Oloron, Lord of Skies. Now i ask you: who might this Oloron be? Some Immortal associated with Sky/Air or Sun/Energy? It must be an Immortal normally revered by the racial stock that settled the archipelago long ago (was it Tanagoro tribes sailing westwards?).. I had in mind two possibilities: either Ixion or Korotiku..> Here's a third possibility since i've already played this module, Have you ever thought about Thor, 'God' of Thunder. most of the seasonal rain in the tropical, IIRC, tend to be Thunderous. >Second thing: from the names of the villages and of the chieftains i inferred that the racial stock of the Tanegiothians is similar to Makai, but does this mean they're black-skinned (i cannot seem to find any reference to skin tone on X1)? There wasn't any reference to skin-tone in the adventure, so black skin Thanegiothians are a possibility. And if so, are they Neathar (like the Makai) or Tanagoro? And when did they settle the archipelago? Also, they seem to have a matriarchal culture BUT with a great difference from RW matriarchies: here women REALLY have political and ruling powers, the males being instead in charge of the military and maybe of religion..> Why not, some of the Pacific cultures were of that type of government, I believe that Hawaii, and some of the Micronesia as well as some of the tribes of Papua New Guinea have the same type of Matriarchial government ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 19:57:50 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff >Now if yall want to discuss how armors feel when worn I may be able to contribute. Personally, I have never worn true armor. I have donned baseball >catching gear. These devices being constructed of modern high impact plastics >and padding are very wearable. However, they do require care when attempting >to move about. The shin guards are a Godsend but pinch at the tops of the feet. The mask and helmet are cumbersome and top heavy. Vision is impaired to >a point where the wearer developes tunnel vision. That is why you see catchers >toss off the mask to chase down a pop fly. Which brings up running in that stuff. Parts of it flopping around and those cursed shin guards feeling like >ankle weights. Plus shinguards tend to turn on the leg while the wearer is running, even walking. >The gear is hot. Most masks and helmets that i wore were black so the heat was >intensified.Chest guards are light but the strapping tends to rub on the back. >Often the straps pull the shirt tail out of the pants exposing the bare skin >to these straps. The chest protector also has a tendency to bunch up as the catcher squats behind the plate, the top of the padding being pushed up into >the mask or in front of the mask. The only way to stop this is to tighten the >waist straps thus causing more rubbing to the back. The chest guard also rubs >against the armpits and upper arms. Since the padding has a vinyl piping/hem >the edeg is quite rough and the rubbing intense. The chin protector hangs below the mask and is prone to catch on the chest padding or fall behind it and dig into the torso. I am not even going to go into the infamous cup as it bring back too many pinching memories. Well, Ive worn chainmail and the thing I have to say about it is... Its Bloody Heavy. (And it was probably made out of aluminium...). After a day of running up and down hills will that on, you are no longer fat, but fit! Its not really cumbersome, as such. Its the weight that restricts you from bounding up steep hills and such... Historically though if you fell over wearing platemail the stuff was so heavy you needed help to rise... >Personally, I think the issue of armor is a game tool to balance out the power >of a mage versus that of a warrior. Let us face it, the reasons given for why >a mage cannot wear armor are pretty weak. Afterall what is the difference between leather armors and flowing robes. This handicap is moot if one uses the ad&d rules option where a mage can commit Prof. Slots. to allow armor. I'm ready to be slated here, but i think the Sacred Principle of Game Balance is perhaps the most important aspect of the rules. I'm personally against demihumans, and I dont buy the usual low birth rate, peacefu race stuff - especially on Mystara, where the latter at least isnt exactly true. No need to let elven fighter/mages wear armour and cast spells. Hell - they dont even need armour. Ive got an elven fighter/mage Swashbuckler IMC - high dexterity, armour spells, invisible mail and swashbuckler bonuses means that platemail is irrelevant. (for that matter, a human mage could be a swashbuckler in that sense). Have I just contradicted myself? :) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 21:09:15 +0200 From: Ezio Pignatelli Subject: [MYSTARA] - The best D&D module My vote is for B10! About 1 year of playing (with some mini-adventures inside)! - -- Ezio Pignatelli - Dipartimento di Astronomia - Padova Tel: +39-49-8293459 - Fax: +39-49-8759840 mailto:epignat@leda.pd.astro.it http://leda.pd.astro.it/~epignat - -- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 15:11:08 -0500 From: "Thomas J. Mahaney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't I have to agree. You should all be proud of the work you are doing. Why have TSR involved? To make it "official"? >I'm sure this will be the most unpopular thing I have ever writen. But I have to say it anyway. >Let us not strive for the return of Mystara to TSR. Let's leave it in our capable hands. Look at what has been done with out the company. I dread the thought of Mystara being as well defined as Forgotten Realms. I play in Mystara because of the fact that it's NOT. There's many holes in it that I get to fill with my own creative designs but there's enough of a backbone to build from. >This is a fantastic setting with alot of great support from everyone online. Let's keep it going with out the second rate material from TSR. >Thanks. >LB1 >*************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. Thomas J. Mahaney II Help Desk Coordinator Office of Information Technologies Lederle Graduate Research Center Lowrise University of Massachuetts Amherst, MA 01003 tmahaney@oit.umass.edu (413) 545-2692 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 15:17:16 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago: many many problems.. (LONG) On Wed, 27 May 1998, Kaviyd wrote: >is no evidence that they eat them at all. The Illithiad describes mind flayers in terms that suggest that they are uniquely horrible creatures. Yech. I do have to say, the Illithiad was one of the best books I have ever read dealing with a particular species, but it wasn't exactly appetizing, especially after my sister ponted out the full color photobook of an autopsy at barnes and nobles. Another against: Kopru live underwater. Anyone have PC3 to look through? I have it at home somewhere, but I can't remember the details on Kopru physiology. I also think that Kopru physically different than Illithids too. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 15:24:50 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The best D&D module On Wed, 27 May 1998, Daly wrote: >They are currently getting all discombobulated in the hallways. *laf* If those poor souls are getting screwed up there, just wait until they start drinking the wine. Purple Grapemash #3 is NOT something to put in the statue :) (He guys, this stuff is TERRIBLE... let the statue have it.) >the pcs rescue her "just in the nick of time". Unless they REALLY screw up of course! The rahib could be dragging her to the statues and the PCs jump in. Of course, Karelina, and Sorelina may be with him, using the trapped elves bodies. That could be fun, especially if the witches play dumb. (They were the captured elves, and Rahasia was the real witch, just let us bring her to the statue...) Oo.. I like that.. Max IV - The sadistic DM :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 12:40:17 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Godzillla in the world of Mystara >>Hey, >>Have we reached any sort of consensus regarding the reprints of the best modules of all time, D&D-wise? >Also worth dusting off is Earthshaker! (CM4) Pit that against Godzilla in your campaign and see who wins. And what do people think of Rahasia (B7), the Tracy and Laura Hickman module written originally for the RPGA? Already working on an adventure based on the movie i saw last week, I'm making this a Radiance Dragon, a Green dragon that was mutated by the Radiance by one of Prince Brannarts experaments, who later planted it in one of the Islands of the Thanegoith Archipelago East of the Isle of Dread. Trying to create a myth about him as soon as i finish Htmling the Almanac. I take life with a grain of salt...a slice of lemon, and a shot tequila. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 15:42:39 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't At 03:11 PM 5/27/98 -0500, you wrote: >>This is a fantastic setting with alot of great support from everyone online. Let's keep it going with out the second rate material from TSR. Gosh, if all the material from TSR was 2nd rate...then we are playing a 2nd rate campaign? I disagree. I think they put out some excellent stuff. And I am dedicated to bringing Mystara back... Your opinion is heard and appreciated. Just don't stand in our way...we might be dangerous! ;) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 22:18:20 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago On Wed, 27 May 1998, George Valencia wrote: >>Now, the main thing i was looking for was the name of a deity wworshipped in Tanegioth which i seemed to recall, and i found it in Mantru village: here the local "priest", Umlat, is the Speakmouth of Oloron, Lord of Skies. Now i ask you: who might this Oloron be? Some Immortal associated with Sky/Air or Sun/Energy? It must be an Immortal normally revered by the racial stock that settled the archipelago long ago (was it Tanagoro tribes sailing westwards?).. I had in mind two possibilities: either Ixion or Korotiku..> >Here's a third possibility since i've already played this module, Have you ever thought about Thor, 'God' of Thunder. most of the seasonal rain in the tropical, IIRC, tend to be Thunderous. I think Thor = Oloron sounds very reasonable. Looking at Norse mythology Thor was not only associated with thunder, but also rain, fertility and agriculture. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 16:22:37 EDT From: Neal Daskal Subject: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't >At 03:11 PM 5/27/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>This is a fantastic setting with alot of great support from everyone online. Let's keep it going with out the second rate material from TSR. >Gosh, if all the material from TSR was 2nd rate...then we are playing a 2nd rate campaign? >I disagree. I think they put out some excellent stuff. And I am dedicated to bringing Mystara back... Except for Aaron Alston, Allen Varney, and Carl Sargeant all the material from TSR since 1985 is 3rd rate. Just check the publication dates on the modules you've all been talking about voting for: B10, X11, X4, X5, X10, B4, B7. That game has been "out of print" for thirteen years. TSR screwed over the OD&D game and the Known World setting with mediocre gaming material and abominable product design (e.g. the CDs). They cannot be trusted to produce something worthwhile. The bottom line is they only care about the bottom line. They don't love the game. I'm darn tired of products that generate Talmudic discussions about continuity errors when the real reason is that the publisher just doesn't care. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #352 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, May 28 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 353 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Karameikos map Re: [MYSTARA] - Stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Karameikos map Re(2): [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re(2): [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: Re(2): [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't RE: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 22:23:40 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't On Wed, 27 May 1998, Lord BKis1 wrote: >I'm sure this will be the most unpopular thing I have ever writen. But I have to say it anyway. >Let us not strive for the return of Mystara to TSR. Let's leave it in our capable hands. Look at what has been done with out the company. I dread the thought of Mystara being as well defined as Forgotten Realms. I play in Mystara because of the fact that it's NOT. There's many holes in it that I get to fill with my own creative designs but there's enough of a backbone to build from. >This is a fantastic setting with alot of great support from everyone online. Let's keep it going with out the second rate material from TSR. I think I understand what you are saying, and I agree with you to some extent. A lot of the stuff TSR made was (and is) worthless crap. And a lot of stuff created by fans and put on the net is of very good quality. One reason for getting Mystara back, though is to get more people like us. A revived Mystara will attract new fans, who can make more excellent material and put it on their homepages. OTOH, getting new Gazetteer style products by Bruce Heard, Aaron Allston and Ann Dupois would be pretty good. Never underestimate the power of Wizards of the Coast.... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 22:26:07 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Karameikos map On Wed, 27 May 1998, Marc-Antoine Guidault wrote: >Hi Mystarans ... Hi! :) >I've seen somewhere on the net a map of Karameikos ( coming from GAZ1 ), but can't remember where. I'd like to use it to enhence my URL page ( publishing modules in this setting ). Can anybody help ? Have anybody seen it ? I downloaded it, and I think I have it somewhere. I can't remember the URL though. If noone can help you with the URL, I can send the map to you. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 22:30:07 +0200 (MET DST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Stuff On Tue, 26 May 1998, David Brian Olsen wrote: >Hi guys! Long time reader, first time poster of the list (if you call a couple of weeks a long time). Although, a long time ago, I was somewhat involved with the Mystara message board on AOL before they cancelled it under the name GeetarSolo. Hi. Cool pseudonum :) Btw: Olsen sounds norwegian. Got any roots over here? >Hope to write more often in the future! go ahead! :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Every turkey dies. Not all turkeys truly live." -Chef, South Park *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 13:55:26 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff >Well, Ive worn chainmail and the thing I have to say about it is... Its Bloody Heavy. (And it was probably made out of aluminium...). After a day of running up and down hills will that on, you are no longer fat, but fit! Its not really cumbersome, as such. Its the weight that restricts you from bounding up steep hills and such... Medievil knights were actually trained to scale walls and swim in chain mail. >Historically though if you fell over wearing platemail the stuff was so heavy you needed help to rise... >ROB I have seen this brought up often as myth, but never seen any recorded fact of such a thing. Plate mail is only about 12# heavier than chain, and many modern combatants state that it is less constraining and more comfortable than chain. It's hard to imagine a trained knight (mostly the only ones who wore plate) having trouble getting up with only about 55# of extra weight on. JAL. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 23:25:02 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? Having read one post about converting Godzilla to a Mystara adventure, I wonder if we could come across about a series of good (or bad, just well-known, if we do not like them, we can always turn them into something useful) movies. As the Titanicmania has struck well over the world, I am thinking of creating a Mystaran version of Titanic. A big Alphatian ship from the NACE shipwrights which made a maiden sail (or engine!) from Ionace to Norworld would be fine. Possibilities are infinite: from Thyatian sabotage to thievery (perhaps on the part of the PCs), espionage and court intrigue and, if you are ready to resist it, the love-thingye (when I saw the movie, I thoguht: "If only I could have tossed that Leonardo DiCaprio into the icy Atlantic in minute 75"). I you want an all-and-out, have the Alphasic sink into the Hollow World! I thought of another variant, too: a magical Glantri ship (such mad building would fit in the character of Jaggar von Drachenfels, if only the poor guy had not been maimed in the war with Ethengar) which makes a pleasure tour through the planes of existence. Chance (and perhaps Dolores) could be worse than any iceberg. Please send me any comments. Andreas de Skie *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 17:35:52 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't On Wed, 27 May 1998, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >material and put it on their homepages. OTOH, getting new Gazetteer style products by Bruce Heard, Aaron Allston and Ann Dupois would be pretty good. Or even reprinted material. WoTC is good at doing that. (I am one of many whose collections are now worth less han cardstock.) I'd LOVE to see a reprinted "Elves of Alfiem" or "Principalities of Glantri" Since I can't seem to purchase it anywhere.. *sob* Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 17:31:28 -0600 From: Patriarch@cmnwrld.com (Patriarch) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Karameikos map mystara-l@MPGN.COM,Internet writes: >I've seen somewhere on the net a map of Karameikos ( coming from GAZ1 ), but can't remember where. I'd like to use it to enhence my URL page ( publishing modules in this setting ). Can anybody help ? Have anybody seen it ? >" Un pour tous ... " A. Dumas >Marcus Here are some maps of Tim Roberts. They are very good. He is doing all of the know world and other worlds. http://CWSpot.com/mystara/gamers/Tinman/thyatis.gif http://CWSpot.com/mystara/gamers/Tinman/5shires.gif http://CWSpot.com/mystara/gamers/Tinman/Karameikos.gif Patriarch mailto:Patriarch@cmnwrld.com Where I net game http://CWSpot.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 17:43:36 -0600 From: Patriarch@cmnwrld.com (Patriarch) Subject: Re(2): [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't mystara-l@MPGN.COM,Internet writes: >I'm sure this will be the most unpopular thing I have ever writen. But I have to say it anyway. >Let us not strive for the return of Mystara to TSR. Let's leave it in our capable hands. Look at what has been done with out the company. I dread the thought of Mystara being as well defined as Forgotten Realms. I play in >Mystara because of the fact that it's NOT. There's many holes in it that I >get to fill with my own creative designs but there's enough of a backbone to >build from. >This is a fantastic setting with alot of great support from everyone online. >Let's keep it going with out the second rate material from TSR. I feel that it does not matter what TSR/WotC puts out. If I dont want to use it I wont. I want to see TSR bring back Mystara. If you think if it, we would never have Mystara if TSR did not publish it in the first place. Yes, TSR did put some 'not so good' material out but they also made the world we love. I am sure they will republish the world. And when they do, there will be some good and bad material. Bottom line! If I dont like what they publish, I wont use it! (lord knows most of the changes they did with AD&D did not make it into my Campaigns) But I would rather have them try than not. SaveMystara!!! http://CWSpot.com/mystara/savemystara Patriarch mailto:Patriarch@cmnwrld.com Where I net game http://CWSpot.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 17:51:18 -0600 From: Patriarch@cmnwrld.com (Patriarch) Subject: Re(2): [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber Is the mark of amber like the old module X2 castle amber? Patriarch mailto:Patriarch@cmnwrld.com SAVEMYSTARA!!! http://CWSpot.com/mystara/savemystara/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 19:38:37 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Defending the Multi Class << Elven chain mail is specifically mentioned in the AD&D rules as having properties that not only reduce thieving skill penalties but permit multi-classed Elf mages to cast spells while wearing it. So yes, certain Elves are indeed incredible armorers -- and whatever the secret of making Elven chain mail is, they guard it very closely. >> Elven Chain mail is no different than human chain mail, other than the size and shape. Magical Elven Chain mail is what allows spellcasting and weighs only about 10-20lbs. Magical Elven Chain mail is only given to the most decorated elves in an elven nation. They are very difficult to create as very few know how to create them. Magical elven chain is also fitted perfectly to the elf that is accepting it. There is one other armor like this and it is Magical Elven Plate mail, which is even more rare than magical elven chain. for every twenty there would be one plate mail. The plate mail is very encumbering and only is used in special ceremonies and never in combat. It is also decorated to be seen as beautiful wear at these ceremonies. For those reasons, magical elven chain can't just be forged by Elven armorers. Also, if a suit is found, there is a high chance that it will not fit the elf whom found it. Plus, it is impossible for any humans, dwarves, halflings, etc... to fit in the suits in any way. I believe that this is a very valuable piece of magical armor, and if you obtain a suit it would be an incredible accomplishment. Perhaps even a goal in life for some..... - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 20:10:51 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff << Medievil knights were actually trained to scale walls and swim in chain mail.>> This is true. Just as it is true that thieves can scale walls, however suffering great penalties to the roll with these armors. And....if there's one thing worse than failing your climb walls ability looking down from a 30 foot stone wall.....then it would be failing your swimming proficiency check while wearing 50 pounds of armor. Glub.....Glub...Glub.. << I have seen this brought up often as myth, but never seen any recorded fact of such a thing. Plate mail is only about 12# heavier than chain, and many modern combatants state that it is less constraining and more comfortable than chain. It's hard to imagine a trained knight (mostly the only ones who wore plate) having trouble getting up with only about 55# of extra weight on. In the RC, it states that plate mail weighs 50lbs. I agree that it is possible to rise to your feet with this added weight, although it would be mighty difficult. However in Suit Armor, it is 75lbs. Now this is a large amount of weight to be holding you down. In medieval times, if a combattent was lodged off his horse and fell on his back, he was almost certain to die. The agressor need only slice the helpless target's throat. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 20:11:31 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff << Well IMO the difference in human and elven armors lays with the race that created it. Humans and elves are so different that their armors would be different. IMO elven chain is finer as more time is taken in its construction.>> Why would there be more time taken in it's construction? <> are you really sure that there is a NWP for mages that allows them to wear armor?? ...just curious....i don't remember ever seeing one..... - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 20:22:16 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't << TSR screwed over the OD&D game and the Known World setting with mediocre gaming material and abominable product design (e.g. the CDs). They cannot be trusted to produce something worthwhile.>> In my opinion, the OD&D game never was destroyed......it evolved. TSR sees certain instances in their books which are hard to follow, believe, or just plain don't make sense. They update and correct these errors in a timely fashion to improve everyone's game and make thier rules easier to understand and more "roleplayer-friendly". Now, this isn't an AD&D vs OD&D deal, it's just that TSR constantly comes up with new editions and books for the sole purpose of defineing the game better for those that don't just want to know the basics. Take the Complete Handbooks for instance. Where else can you find more info about your specific favorite race/class? TSR's productions are far from 3rd rate in my thoughts. << The bottom line is they only care about the bottom line. They don't love the game. I'm darn tired of products that generate Talmudic discussions about Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 01:09:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #353 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 53d66268c94c80c05df99c2baa929b03 continuity errors when the real reason is that the publisher just doesn't care. >> These are obviously just cheap shots with no factual backing. I really doubt that any (never mind all) of the publishers are out to make a cheap buck or are just stareing at the computer screen 8 hours a day or slacking off. That's something a small buisness might do, but certainly not TSR or now WOTC for that matter. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 20:37:37 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff I'd like to take the time to plagerize some things found on page 110 in the Complete Fighters book. They have an entry on this page concerning High-Quality Racial Armor, and to me it makes sense.....They state that 10% of armor found is of high-quality and there is a difference in the game mechanics of the high-quality armor, and guess what?...... Yup, you got it.....it differs by race. So, although i didn't agree with this at first, and still don't agree with the proposals, i believe that this page is a good middle spot between the arguements. Dwarves: It is very resistant to damage. when the armor must make a saving throw, it gets a +6 in addition to any bonuses it gets if it is magical. It also can recieve twice the amount of damage as any other armor before it starts to break down. Elves: It is one-half the weight of ordinary armor. Gnomes and Halflings: They make quiet leather and studded leather armor. This allows no penalty to thieves in thier thieving abilities. Humans: When this armor needs a saving throw it gets a +2, or a +4 if the armor is plate, field plate or full plate. Also, for those 3 plate armors, there is a +2 to saves vs. Rod, Staff, or Wand and Breath Weapon attacks. If you want explanations as to why these bonuses are given or which races use which metals just look in the book as i don't want to make post on this any larger than this one has already become... - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 20:38:36 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't On Wed, 27 May 1998 Inconu@aol.com wrote: >In my opinion, the OD&D game never was destroyed......it evolved. TSR sees Evolved to AD&D? That's like devolving to me :) >Take the Complete Handbooks for instance. Where else can you find more info about your specific favorite race/class? TSR's productions are far from 3rd rate in my thoughts. But OD&D had been doing that for years with the Gazetteers and Creature Crucibles. TSR's best writers did NOT write for AD&D. >These are obviously just cheap shots with no factual backing. I really doubt I agree with this. I'm sure that TSR isn't the kind of company that throws out crap, just to get it out (Its not, say late-80's FASA). But then again, It is not Palladium, the company which consistently puts out high quality books, though they come at a frequency of about 1 per Quarter! Noone can deny the abject uselessness of the later Mystara books. But noone can deny the genius of the Gazetteers, the PC series or even books like AC9, the Book of Wonderous Inventions. (Of which AC1012 takes a cue from with the Gargantoid) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 20:54:48 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: Re(2): [MYSTARA] - Mark of Amber At 05:51 PM 5/27/98 -0600, you wrote: >Is the mark of amber like the old module X2 castle amber? >Patriarch >mailto:Patriarch@cmnwrld.com >SAVEMYSTARA!!! >http://CWSpot.com/mystara/savemystara/ Alot like it. But it has some extra stuff. It is kinda neat. Melds it into "modern Mystara" quite well I think. Personally, I think it is one of the better AD&D Mystara products. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 21:22:15 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't At 04:22 PM 5/27/98 EDT, you wrote: *sigh* TSR screwed over the >OD&D game and the Known World setting with mediocre gaming material and abominable product design (e.g. the CDs). Yes they made some pretty serious bad decisions regarding the marketing of OD&D. But do you seriously think that it was intentional? Do you truly think they put out an "abominable product design" with the intent of "screwing over" our favorite setting? They cannot be >trusted to produce something worthwhile. Cannot be trusted huh? How come I get the feeling you are talking about the communists...or some political party...or some person who did you wrong personally? The bottom line is they >only care about the bottom line. Wait, you mean a company actually cares about making a profit?? How disgusting! They must be the only company who stoops so low as to want to make money. I hope my sarcasm is taken in the gentle ribbing tone it is intended... >They don't love the game. This is certainly debatable. It is also a rather nasty thing to accuse people of, whom you do not know. And who exactly is "they"? Does Bruce Heard not love the game? How many TSR people do you know personally enough to make such judgements? >I'm darn tired of products that generate Talmudic discussions Enlighten me on what a "Talmudic discussion" is. I know what the Talmud is. It is an interesting expression you use and I really want to know. Thanks. about >continuity errors when the real reason is that the publisher just doesn't care. Okay, I am going to say something important. I have seen this attitude before and you are certainly not the worst. This attitude of "They don't care" and "all they care about is a buck" and "they screwed us over" is really immature. What sort of unrealistic expectations are you putting on a corporation? Yes, you have a perfect right to your opinion and expression of it. But to seethe in anger over "what they did to us" just seems to me an awful waste of time. But listen, I do hope we have your blessing. Even though you might not agree with what we are trying to accomplish, I hope you at least wish us well... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 21:30:02 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't What I'm hearing on this is that you don't want to buy it and don't want anyone else to be *able* to buy it. Why is that? What is it that would bother you so bad that you couldn't stand to see Mystara sitting on the shelves along side its other settings? - -- This has been a Galwylin(c) Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 19:17:53 -0300 From: "Leibiusky" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff I see you know a lot about the elves. Can you send me informnation about the diferent nations in Mystara and about Alfheim (in particular about the Tree of Life and the rules and calendar with the special days). Thanks Jonathan Leibiusky edu@giga.com.ar - ---------- >De: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >A: Edu >Asunto: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff >Fecha: Miércoles 27 de Mayo de 1998 6:04 PM >>Well, Ive worn chainmail and the thing I have to say about it is... Its Bloody Heavy. (And it was probably made out of aluminium...). After a day >>of running up and down hills will that on, you are no longer fat, but fit! >>Its not really cumbersome, as such. Its the weight that restricts you from >>bounding up steep hills and such... >Medievil knights were actually trained to scale walls and swim in chain mail. >>Historically though if you fell over wearing platemail the stuff was so heavy you needed help to rise... >>ROB >I have seen this brought up often as myth, but never seen any recorded >fact of such a thing. Plate mail is only about 12# heavier than chain, and >many modern combatants state that it is less constraining and more comfortable than chain. >It's hard to imagine a trained knight (mostly the only ones who wore plate) having trouble getting up with only about 55# of extra weight on. >JAL. *************************************************************************** TTo unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 00:41:18 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Kaviyd wrote: >>Tell that to the Fighters, Thieves and Magic-Users of Mystara. 3:)> : >Ah, but those classes bring totally different sets of abilities to a party. A standard Cleric can fight -- but less effectively than a Fighter. A standard Cleric can cast offensive spells -- but less effectively than a Mage. >And of course a standard Cleric is totally useless at the "sneaky stuff" that a Thief specializes in. And a standard Cleric can Turn Undead, something Fighters, Mages and Thieves truly stink at. I mean, remember the last time in your campaign that a scrawny-armed mage whipped out a holy symbol at a lowly rat skeleton and tried to turn it, wracked in debilitating fright? No, course not. 3:D> >But he does have the ability to cast healing spells -- and a typical adventuring party will have a real need for such services. And even A standard Cleric would. Though given the diversity of AD&D priests one might find in Mystara, I would suspect at least half wouldn't have any access to healing.. though to each their own sphere access.. only my point was many immortals don't have much business granting healing spells (aside from Healing followers of the Immortal or doers of the Immortal's will; which, as we all know, is rarely why a party priest casts CLW on his com- panions.) >with the example of that priest of Ixion (who apparently has enough offensive spell power to replace a Mage in the party) as an example, it does seem that a priest who cannot at least cast the equivalent of "Cure Light Wounds" will prove fairly useless to a typical adventuring party unless he has "something up his sleeve" -- in other words, some sort of extraordinary ability that allows him to fill some other role than the stereotypical "Cleric/Medic" role in the party. No doubt access to Fire spells. It goes without saying that I don't think most Immortals have business granting access to the Elemental Sphere of Fire (Ixion yes.. Valerias ok.. but Protius? Korysis? Vanya even?) Let's look at Vanya, because I know there are those of you out there (who no doubt give clerics access to virtually every sphere) who say Vanya should grant access to the destructive sphere of Elemental Fire. I agree it is destructive, and useful. But is elemental fire one of the top things Vanya stands for? After all, Vanya's clerics already have good weapons and armor allowances, good hit dice. The corollary (ala the much maligned PHBR3) is her priests should have poor spell choice. So, in the 3-4 major spheres and the 3-4 minor spheres you decide to confer, does Fire really stand out in front of All, Combat, Guardian, Protection, War, Wards.. even Healing or Necromancy (on a minor level)? -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 01:07:01 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Galwylin wrote: >>It does look rather depressing for the survival of the Church of Karameikos though, I cannot see it adopting Halav, Petra and Zirchev.. absolutely not in the light the Traladarans do. As Immortals, those three are unlikely to deal with the "pantheon" already ascribed to the CoK. The Traladaran beliefs just don't fit well with the CoK doctrine, and I forsee a decline in CoK's parishoners. >Hmm. I was thinking it was the Church of Traladara that was going to be in trouble. Halav and company's integration into the Church of Karameikos is absolutely imperative if that church is going to appeal to the Traladarans. I'm sure the church leaders realize that. Well, some of the more progressive Church leaders, whose views would be eschewed by the more conservative old-timers, and I mean look at the CoK doctrine, if that's not died in the wool conservatism... if you look at the Catholic Church for instance, they didn't rescind Galileo's house arrest and acknowledge the Earth may not be the center of the universe until 1980 (not a typo.. less than 18 years ago.) It could be centuries before the climate in CoK changes. The CoT, counting on omens and superstitions, can more easily re- define itself (although it doesn't have to, it is the popular church of the Karameikan people). But let's poll the CoK church leaders (forgive me if some of these leaders have passed away, I'm going by GAZ1 here): Jowett. Really old-timer. Tolerant of CoT's coexistance. However, given how he's dedicated his whole like to the CoK, as open-minded as he may come off, count on him being true to his old beliefs. He'll vote NO to adding Halav & Co. to the CoK. Oderbry. Hates CoT. Definate NO vote for Halav & Co. Hands down. Haralan. Might be a little more open-minded, from up north in Threshold. If he ascended to power, he might see things progressively and vote YES to Halav & Co. Kelvin. Very thoughtful and efficient man, dedicated to the CoK. He would look at the matter very politically, his discipline and loyalty would lead him to vote NO, unless he had a powerful political motive that voting YES could lead him to capitalize on. Maybe. But... really, this is a minor mortal matter. Whether Halav & Co. join CoK is the choice of Halav & Co. themselves! 3:)> What do they gain? They get about one fifth of the population of Karameikos as followers, basically striking a gambit on Karameikan worship (either via CoK or CoT). What do they lose? Their independence, long advocating the ascension of Traladara. Now they will be put on par with some of their rival Immortals in the CoK (if you subscribe to that pantheon...) some of whom they aren't inclined to work with. They also show themselves to be disloyal to their faithful followers at CoT, which was conquering CoK in the hearts and souls of the Karameikans anyway. Another disadvantage is that other Immortals may not want Halav & Co. to cover both sides of Karameikos like that. Both Immortals outside CoK, and some Immortals in CoK would likely resent their incorporation into their faith. Some Immortals in CoK might go along with it, figuring it would bring in more followers that may marginally increase their followings, and they aren't gung-ho on the doctrine anyway. Other Immortals would resent sharing power and are gung-ho on a doctrine that would be "stained" by Halav & Co.'s inclusion. So really, Halav & Co. would ask "Why?" And they aren't terribly social. And they are really already winning the battle via CoT's popularity. -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #353 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, May 28 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 354 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please read and respond! Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff [MYSTARA] - Godzilla vs. Earthshaker / HOLLOW WORLD Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff [MYSTARA] - MISC: Savage Coast Net Logo Contest Update Re: [MYSTARA] - MISC: Savage Coast Net Logo Contest Update Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago: many many problems.. (LONG) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 01:44:41 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Adam Curtis wrote: >Another quip I have with AD&D is its level limit rules. No intelligent being, especially one that lives for hundreds and hundreds of years, really would have something like level limits. Well, D&D has its own level limits. 36th level for humans, and 8th/ 10th/12th for demihumans, though then they invented the "Attack Ranks" which really aren't levels, but just funky show-your-friends sort of stuff where you can rat on the 21st level cleric that, hey, my dwarf is attack rank L or something. >Logic >dictates that someone whose prime of life is longer will usually have the greater opportunity to advance farther in a chosen profession. By such an assertion, elves would rule the world. Actually, logic dictates that the longer one does the same thing over and over again, the more BORED TO DEATH the person becomes. Hence I don't blame Elves who stop at 10th level in either game system. Relative immor- tality breeds a lack of appreciation of mortality. >I know there >are optional rules to exceed level limits, but comparitively few people use them. They don't use it, so it don't exist? I don't know what the point of a 20th level Dwarf is. In AD&D, you know what a 20th level Dwarf's Saving Throws would be? A 15th level Dwarf fighter in AD&D is equivalent to an Attack Rank Z (or wherever it ends) Dwarf in D&D.. the levels really denote different things in the two game systems. Each level in D&D is weaker than a level in AD&D, which carries larger increases in character potency. So in effect, the two are equivalent. >D&D employed a far more sensible system regarding classes in general and demihuman level limitations. The demihuman level limitations in D&D are less than those in AD&D. >classes. For instance, the shamani from the Atruaghin Clans Gazetteer utilized cleric, magic-user, and druid spells (NOTE: not able to use every single spell clerics, magic-users, and druids were able to, but they had a selection from each list). Yes, but an AD&D magic-user gets over 40 spells to choose from at first level.. D&D magic-users only had like 12. So if you have 4 cleric, 4 magic-user and 4 druid spells to choose from, are you that much more powerful? A lot (tho not all) MU spells have Clerical and Druidic equivalents. Getting a very few MU spells isn't that much of an advan- tage, and is fairly paid for by getting few Clerical and Druidic spells. >Level limitation rules for demihumans are much more reasonable in D&D. Dwarves, elves, halflings, and gnomes are limited in advancement to levels 12, 10, 8, and 8 respectively, but these limitations largely D&D Gnomes? This must be from Top Ballista or something.. depending on what you supplement it with, you can have Pookas, Werefoxes, Treants and Orcs, this diversity only makes it look more like AD&D, though. Is 50 classes any different from 5 classes with 10 kits each? >only affected hit points. Each class continued to advance in fighting abilities using attack ranks and typically remained a match to their human counterparts with these additional fighting gains, special saving throws, and racial advantages. Gaining what racial advantages? >Anyway, I'd strongly urge WotI and TSR to bring back WotC. 3;)> Though we talk about WotI alot around here, a shake-up the world adventure module they published that sank continents and all.. >D&D rules. A great way to do it would be to add a section to the PHB and DMG that overviewed the basic : >combat options. For adventures, probably only one or two pages would need to be added to show the D&D equivalent of NPCs found throughout the adventure. >Any thoughts? If it were a short section, how many people do you think would buy it? (even if it were a long section) What you suggest is similar to the AD&D Basics section at the back of the D&D Cyclopedia, the migration TSR obviously wanted people to take, from D&D to AD&D. I don't think it'd be realistic from a publishing/business standpoint for them to now encourage people to go back the other way. As for some downers, D&D's alignment system was too simplistic. If you want simple alignments, don't use them. But too often D&D abused the lawful is good, chaotic is bad analogy and then went to extents to show this wasn't neccessarily the case, just the implication on every player and DM's mind. AD&D's alignments are a better system, and just as simple in concept, except two-dimensional instead of one-dimensional. And do you really use the D&D combat system, with its missile, magic and melee phases? Just roll initiatives and fight. Ability scores were easier like you point out, though Charisma broke with the norm established by the other five ability scores, and the effects of low intelligence weren't based on the same orthogonal system. So it did break with the basic concepts from time to time. Then, D&D demihumans are walking dictionaries. AD&D 2nd edition fixed that. It's amazing a D&D dwarf with low intelligence can't discuss matters in Common but can conversantly interact with half a dozen humanoids. Literacy is also taken for granted in D&D, which given the breadth of some demihumans' language exposure, makes them even more linguistic. I like D&D for the occassional game still, but I don't expect it's going to be revived, and there aren't that many D&D players around (even ten years ago it was hard to find regular D&D players). -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 01:51:37 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Mike Harvey wrote: >There is only *one* issue I have with D&D, that that is the combat tables for fighters. I realize that they needed to stretch things out to 36 levels, but fighters improve THAC0 pretty slowly in D&D. One D&D level = less than one AD&D level. AD&D characters are just more powerful, on a level-for-level basis. >At 20th level, magic users are pretty much equivalent between the two systems. They have similar hit dice, THAC0, and spell ability. I disagree with spell ability. The AD&D M-U has a considerably greater spell selection. >However in D&D, wizards can go on to *double* their spell ability I think it's only fair, a 36th level D&D MU matchs up better with a 20th level AD&D MU. >AD&D a 20th level mage can toast a fighter). Weapon specialization can offset the THAC0 problem (though AD&D fighters can specialize too so that's no gain). AD&D weapon specialization is greatly limited. D&D offers Grand Mastery, which lets you hurl two-handed swords like they were darts for like six dice of damage. >Anyway, has anyone else noticed this, or is it just me? I think level for level, AD&D characters will be more powerful than their D&D cousins. The reason is AD&D only goes to 20th level, whereas D&D goes to 36th level. -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 23:08:11 +0000 From: "Mike Harvey" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please read and respond! >And for Rad's sake! Get on the TSR message boards! I am not asking your to make a lifetime commitment. I am merely begging you to go to the following address and make a single post! Done. (posting the URL made it easier... :-) >There are many good posts to >respond to. You don't even have to think up anything original and brilliant. http://tsronline.wizards.com:80/mb/system/addnewuser.shtml Mike - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bing@iccom.com (formerly mike@cs.pdx.edu) Mike Harvey HTTP://www.iccom.com/usrwww/bing/home.html Beaverton, Oregon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 01:58:03 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Kaviyd wrote: >the priests of specific Immortals would be general Clerics with one or two additional special abilities based on the specific Immortal served. If you go by WotI.. I just consider this polluting the D&D cleric with special sundry talents. >Specialty priests as per the "Complete Priest's Handbook" do not seem to fit well into Mystara -- in fact, by treating all spell spheres as equal, they really do not work well anywhere. ??? How does PHBR3 treat all spell spheres as equal? And they fit perfectly well into Mystara, you just have to apply the guidelines in PHBR3. Ask yourself the tough questions: what spheres really matter to this Immortal? Don't be afraid to rule out other spheres to make sure the Priest is truly play-balanced. And follow the guidelines, they'll lead you to a good priesthood each and every time. Recently just completed the priesthoods of Thor and Dorto Silvermane myself. Two more well-conceived priesthoods. -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 01:37:08 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Derek Harmon wrote: >> >So really, Halav & Co. would ask "Why?" And they aren't terribly social. And they are really already winning the battle via CoT's popularity. Well, to use one of your examples, the Catholic church, I would say that Halav & Co. would fell compelled to gather as many followers as possible to impliment their ideas. I believe the Catholic faith is the largest of any Christain faith and they owe a lot of that to the fact that they were a state sanctioned religion. Karameikos's government is supporting the Church of Karameikos. They have gone out of their way to deminish the line between Traladarans and Thytians by calling themselves Karameikans. So, if Halav & Co. don't want their worshippers to slowly (but surely) be fade away, they have got to do a few things. Reinforce Traladaran values (which will most likely become opposition to the government as racial stereotypes are brought back). Bring back the anti-social feelings the Traladarans had against the Thyatians. Align themselves with the Cult of Halav in effort to have the numbers needed to influence the Karameikan government. While your information is correct in 1000 AC, it doesn't take into account that Stefan is attempting to forge a kingdom. He's not going to attempt that without showing that Karameikans are both Thyatians AND Traladarans. He needs the Traladarans' support and numbers in order to make such a feat possible. So, your statistics aren't bad because they may be outdated by deaths and such but they're bad because they don't take into account the changes being made and one change (especially in governments that support a state religion) will be in the religion. While Karameikos was still a part of the Thyatian Empire, it couldn't very well make such changes to the state religion. That is no longer a problem and now the Church of Karameikos is free (in whatever way Stefan allows) to change and grow. - -- This has been a Galwylin(c) Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:11:51 +0300 (EET DST) From: Harri M{ki Subject: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri I just finished reading Almanac and I must say I was impressed. It was so much better than I could even imagine. So I also have one question for all Glantri-enthuasists to ponder. Who you think would be next high judge after Jherek is dead. I think there are not very much possibilities. IMO Lan-Syn is out of the question, because others want to limit House of Singhabads power. Harald for obvious reasons is not a candidate. Kol or Dolores/Synn migth want that job, but they wouln't get any support. Brannart/Angus can't also promote himself. Jaggar's status as a prince is in danger, so he wouldn't get any support. So who we have left. We have both elves, but I don't think that they could be chosen. Juliana is I think too young to be chosen. Isidore or Malachie might come in question, but do either one get enough support. IMO logical choise would be Urmahid, but electing him makes an other problem: who is the next chancellor. My favourite for judge is Morphail. I think this would open whole lot of gaming possibilities for behind door politics. Think about it nosferatu/vampire as high judge and leader of police. It would be a perfect job for Morphail. He as high judge sits in his tower and makes interrogations in night and is never seen in daylight. What you think about that. t:Harri Mäki hihama@uta.fi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 07:22:57 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't >Take the Complete Handbooks for instance. Where else can you find more info about your specific favorite race/class? TSR's productions are far from 3rd rate in my thoughts. << But OD&D had been doing that for years with the Gazetteers and Creature Crucibles. TSR's best writers did NOT write for AD&D. >> I agree, but my point wasn't for OD&D vs AD&D. I just wanted to point out that TSR hasn't been getting worse and that the material has always been up to par. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 08:43:08 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff In a message dated 98-05-27 15:06:23 EDT, you write: << >Now if yall want to discuss how armors feel when worn I may be able to ccontribute. Personally, I have never worn true armor. I have donned baseball >catching gear. [snipped] Well, Ive worn chainmail and the thing I have to say about it is... Its Bloody Heavy. (And it was probably made out of aluminium...). After a day of running up and down hills will that on, you are no longer fat, but fit! Its not really cumbersome, as such. Its the weight that restricts you from bounding up steep hills and such...>> I never said that it wasn't heavy. In fact, if you look at the stiff about the catchers gear I state that it is not exactly comfortable. And this catcher's equipment is made out of modern, light weight materials. And if you think about it, catchers gear is probably more akin to Plate or more accurately platemail armor. Chain is uncomfortable. Every piece of info I have seen has stated that it was quite heavy, especially on the shoulders as that is where the armor hangs from. In hot climes it may not be that pad, as the links afford some ventilation. This of course is negated according to how much clothing is worn underneath to prevent agravation to the skin. <> Especially as plate got thicker and heavier and enclosed all of the body. Earlier examples did allow the wearer to get up, though that was at times strenuous. And dangerous, especially if one fell in the midst of a battle. >Personally, I think the issue of armor is a game tool to balance out the power >of a mage versus that of a warrior. [snipped] I'm ready to be slated here, but i think the Sacred Principle of Game Balance is perhaps the most important aspect of the rules. I'm personally against demihumans, and I dont buy the usual low birth rate, peacefu race stuff - especially on Mystara, where the latter at least isnt exactly true. No need to let elven fighter/mages wear armour and cast spells.>> Oh I agree that balance is key to any campaing. But demihumans are a part of Mystara. Demihumans, especially elves, are often played and administered (DM) badly. I do not think most players and DMs really know how to play elves. I have seen games and even printed modules where elves are doing very unelven things. Personally, elves and half elves are the two most favorite folk in my own campaigns. Elves in a human society can be most beneficial to the game. <> He he...someone hath been reading my notes. Let us just say that the warmages of Randel are not your typical stand behind the ranks firing a volley types. Instead they will mix it up with opposing infantry. Not with swords like the Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 12:54:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #354 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 91c7c1155ed727ed663ae6e9728886ef Glantrian version, but with the quarter staff. You say "what mages in combat how unlike them" Well if your kingdom's economy and social structure derides from militerism, aggression is seen across all level of society. And the fact that children are initiated to use the quarterstaff at an early age helps too. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 09:01:49 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff In a message dated 98-05-27 20:23:35 EDT, Inconu writes: << Well IMO the difference in human and elven armors lays with the race that ccreated it. Humans and elves are so different that their armors would be different. IMO elven chain is finer as more time is taken in its construction.>> me Why would there be more time taken in it's construction?>> Cause elves live longer. IMO elves do not do anything unless there is a specific reason. So I doubt you would see an elven smith knocking out copy after copy of elven chain "just in case" they are needed. And when they do commit to creating a suit of mail, they do so with a passion. Elves do not do anything half assed. Each set of armor, each bow, each everything is a work of art. Afterall, it should last an elven lifetime. <<>this handicap is moot if one uses >the ad&d rules option where a mage can commit Prof. Slots. to allow armor. are you really sure that there is a NWP for mages that allows them to wear armor?? ...just curious....i don't remember ever seeing one.....>> Dungeo or maybe it was Dragon magazine had an article on battlemages. Had this pic of a mage holding a shield and sword and standing at a parapet casting a spell from his shield hand. Cannot remember what armor he was wearing. There is also something on it in one of the AD&D rules options books. Basically it allows the PC to commit Prof. Slots to casting while using armor. IMO it is a power gamers dream. And for the record I would not allow it IMC. Alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 09:08:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Godzilla vs. Earthshaker / HOLLOW WORLD >Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 23:25:02 +0200 >From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" >Subject: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? >Having read one post about converting Godzilla to a Mystara adventure, I wonder if we could come across about a series of good (or bad, just well-known, if we do not like them, we can always turn them into something I don't know if you are tying into my ramblings, but all *I* suggested was that I would like to see an adventure between Godzilla and Earthshaker, the steam-powered 'mech in CM4, located near Vyolstagrad in Norwold and mainly controlled by a clan of gnomes. It is 1,280 feet tall, or about 128 stories high. Or maybe I watched too much ULTRAMAN when I was a boy...the guy in the giant robot suit vs. the guy in the giant visibly- zippered monster suit with the quivering rubber teeth. I died laughing at the "Barbra Streisand/MegaBarbra" episode of SOUTH PARK, where they satirized such Japanese science-fiction stuff. - --- By the way, I am still mystified about this east-west business in the Hollow World maps. For the Hollow World, East and West longitude lines are oriented the same way they are on the surface world. What gives with that? It SAID it would go the other way to show that the "east" direction is to the left and "west" is to the right, to match how it is on the Known (surface) world. But in fact the longitude lines are contrary to what they announced in the rules. In fact, in the D&D Cyclopedia, the Hollow World map was printed wrong with latitude marks on the upper left incorrectly printed as "south" and on the lower right incorrectly printed as "north". I swear: "TSR" must mean "asleep at the wheel" in some language or other... :-) I'd like a hint or two of what Hollow World continents are below which Known World continents, in case of special accessways. - --- - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 07:49:45 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff >In the RC, it states that plate mail weighs 50lbs. I agree that it is possible >to rise to your feet with this added weight, although it would be mighty difficult. However in Suit Armor, it is 75lbs. Now this is a large amount of >weight to be holding you down. In medieval times, if a combattent was lodged >off his horse and fell on his back, he was almost certain to die. The agressor >need only slice the helpless target's throat. -Inconu This is true, but it wasn't because the person could not get up- unless incapacitated by the fall, it would be that he could not get up quick enough... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 08:01:53 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff Somebody wrote (Sorry, missed the start): tttthis handicap is moot if one uses the ad&d rules option where a mage can commit Prof. Slots. to allow armor. Inconu writes: >are you really sure that there is a NWP for mages that allows them to wear armor?? >...just curious....i don't remember ever seeing one.....>> Alex writes: >Dungeo or maybe it was Dragon magazine had an article on battlemages. Had this pic of a mage holding a shield and sword and standing at a parapet casting a spell from his shield hand. Cannot remember what armor he was wearing. This comes from the Complete Wizard's Handbook they're called Militant Wizards, and they get restrictions that go along with that handy dandy armor and weapon :-) >There is also something on it in one of the AD&D rules options books. Basically it allows the PC to commit Prof. Slots to casting while using armor. >IMO it is a power gamers dream. And for the record I would not allow it IMC. This is in one of the Player's Options books. It is a power-gamer's dream, but the entire book is, basically. The presumption is that you carefully watch how the character is done in that system, rather than outlawing the options- personally, I wouldn't allow it in any of my campaigns. JAL. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 09:31:36 +0000 From: Elton Robb Subject: [MYSTARA] - MISC: Savage Coast Net Logo Contest Update Michael Morris, the creator of the Dusk Campaign, has recently sent me an E-mail saying that he will devote some webspace for the net logo candidates. All we need is a judge, and we can start taking logos. So, who wishes to judge? - Elton Robb *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 12:15:18 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MISC: Savage Coast Net Logo Contest Update At 09:31 AM 5/28/98 +0000, you wrote: >Michael Morris, the creator of the Dusk Campaign, has recently sent me an E-mail saying that he will devote some webspace for the net logo candidates. >All we need is a judge, and we can start taking logos. So, who wishes to judge? What is involved in judging? Have we had any takers on developing logos? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 18:53:49 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago: many many problems.. (LONG) Geoff Gander wrote: <> Uhmm.. well, Induism does it, you're right, but you forget one thing: in Mystara the immortals of Thought and Energy are opposed. Don't think Ixion would be so happy to be worshipped as "another of Korotiku's personalities" (though i'm sure Kor would laugh madly at the thing). <> Uh? Sorry to contradict you here, but i've always thought the Yasuko are descended from Ochaleans (thus chinese-like..) That's what i remember, at least (and the name suggests it too..). Anyway, i forgot about the Oltec race, yes that's another possibility. You see, i think the true identity of Oloron is tied to the tanegiothians racial heritage: if they are Oltec, then it's Ixion; if Tanagoro, then it's Korotiku; if Makai (Neathar -though i've always thought Makai should belong to Oltec stock..) then it could be .. no idea! :) << Who knows, IMO these islands were inhabited by many successive cultures, some of which were no doubt totally wiped out by the conquerors. Could it be that Taymoran kingdoms once existed here?>> Interesting thought, Geoff. Indeed, this seems most likely: first came the Oltecs then the Tanagoro and the two cultures (notably peaceful) merged. This could also explain the double nature of Oloron: for some it's the Sun Prince, for others it's the Lord of Sky (according to their traditions). Cool! :) And the conquerors? I think you're referring to kopru and carnifex.. <> yes, but according to your timeline for Vaath Zemoth (sorry: i'm pretty sure i misspelled the name ;p) the carnifex dominated Tanegioth far before humans came on Mystara and left it in the hands of the kopru, with troglodytes and lizardkin slaves roaming the islands. So humans have come only after (BC 4000?), and maybe have been then enslaved by kopru who seeked better slaves than loathsome troglodytes. Only when those humans who lived in the southern part of the main isle understood there was something strange going on in the north did they retreat in the small peninsula and built the Great Wall, leaving many of their brethren to be conquered by the hateful dwellers of the deeps.. <> The only reference i have is a picture of an islander at the end of the book, where the "Monsters" entries are: it's black skinned. <> Uhmm.. could be. After all this discussion, this is what i came up with: the first inhabitants of what would have become the Tanegioth archipelago came to the region around 4,000 BC: they were Oltec explorers (in this same period the Oltecs seemed to be exploring many lands -Savage Coast and even Oceania!). Let's not forget that Tanegioth was not a series of isles before BC 3000 (Blackmoor catastrophe -i think you may have missed this Geoff, in your history of Vaath Zemoth..), but probably it was either part of the Forest of Ka (northern tip of Davania, only some hundred miles far from the northern continent where the Oltecs came from) or part of the mountain range in the southern tip of the northern continent (where the Aquarendi lived). Refer to Hollow World pre cataclysm map to understand what i'm talking about. Some time later, black-skinned people, Tanagoro explorers from Skothar, also came to the region, settling peacibly alongside the Oltecs. Then the Great Rain of Fire came and the planet shifted its axis, stranding the Oltecs and Tanagoro on the newly formed Thanegioth Archipelago. Likely there were more Oltecs than Tanagoro, but the first ones to fall under the kopru's rising where probably the Oltecs, who had settled by far in the northern part of the main isle. So the kopru arose from the deeps and began enslaving the humans, forming their (first?) empire around 2,990 BC. Sometime later, the slaves were able to revolt (maybe some kopru played their slaves against the other kopru's ones..). At the end of this Kopru Empire (well, more a kingdom i'd say, since it encompassed only tanegioth) the rebelling humans (Oltecs + Tanagoro) fled southwards and helped by a majority of Tanagoro who already lived there, they held the small peninsula against the raids of the kopru's still controlled humans and troglodytes. Then they started building the Great Wall to keep the invaders out. However, during the construction they were harassed many times by kopru slaves and many were also killed. At this time, some people rose to prominence because they had mastery over death: they used their powers and knowledge to seal a pact with the Lady of Death, who granted them the ability to bring back people from the dead. However, these were not truly alive: only empty shells controlled by the necromancers. They used the fallen ones, also called Zombies, to build the Wall instead of living humans and to repel the enemies, and they were able to complete their task, earning great respect and honor from their tribesmen. They became the Zombie Lords, servants of the Lady of Death, and had the same powers and importance of the priests of Oloron. Oloron was said tp protect the villagers by day, while the Lady of Death worked by night.. The other Kopru empires never conquered the southern peninsula, but were always in control of the greatest part of the island and probably of the other atolls as well (there were many other humans left). However, with time the humans died and were never replaced and at the end the kopru couldn't control their land anymore: when the last humans rebelled again, they were powerless (no more troops to defend them) and retreated in their deeps.. Mantru is thus the last village of humans descended from kopru slaves in the main isle of Tanegioth. Sounds good? :) Btw, i think the tanegiothians have had contacts with the makai of Ierendi for two reasons: the makai are expert seafarers (like Polynesians) and probably could have ventured that far. Also, there is a location in ierendi called Nyx's something (a geographical feature) and makai seem to also hold in high respect/fear necromancers: i'd say they could have been influenced in this by the south tanegiothians who worship the Lady of Death (Nyx in their own tongue).. Just a few ramblings. :) >Fifth: In the last section of the dungeon inside the Forbidden Island, note n°51 (Hidden Throne), who do you think belongs the human (?) skeleton who sits on the throne and holds a sword +2 (charme) and ring of telekinesis (for this should be the domain of the kopru..)? Why is he here? An adventurer victim of the kopru or what? <> Or maybe he is Rory Barbarossa himself.. Remember: he was said to have vanished after he offended a mage. Okay, put the pieces together: Gargoyles can be found on Tanegioth, so this means a mage must have lived (or still lives) there; Rory was trying to collect funds to explore the island and find lost treasures; Rory was a great explorer and pirate, so he may have had magical items in his possession. Now picture this: he annoyed this great mage probably because he knew the mage was interested in Tanegioth (he was seeking a sponsor?). The mage was far more knowledgeable of Tanegioth than Rory thought, and he didn't like the guy messing around his pet island. So he tricked him: "Okay Rory, i'll get you to the island with my magic: you explore it and whatever you find we'll divide. I also know of a small temple atop a great plateau in the northern part of the isle: the natives say there be a great treasure hoard in one of its rooms. If you ever go there and find anything, just rub this brooch i give you and i'll come by your side to aid you coming out alive. Is it a deal?" And Rory accepted, of course. The fact is, the brooch wasn't magical at all: it was only a way for the mage to monitor Rory's moves. And when he met the kopru in the lower chambers, he discovered the mage had tricked him: instead of being dominated by the kopru, he preferred to end his life, and he did it while sitting on the throne, doomed king of a forgotten kingdom.. Yeah, i know: my imagination runs far too wild.. ;) Thanx to all of you who answered my questions! DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #354 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, May 28 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 355 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Godzillla in the world of Mystara Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? [MYSTARA] - Alamanc in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Re: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? Re: [MYSTARA] - Alamanc in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Re: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please read and respond! [MYSTARA] - Foresters Re: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanc in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago: many many problems.. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 19:16:47 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago At 22.18 27/05/98 +0200, Haavard wrote: >On Wed, 27 May 1998, George Valencia wrote: HHHere's a third possibility since i've already played this module, Have you ever thought about Thor, 'God' of Thunder. most of the seasonal rain in the tropical, IIRC, tend to be Thunderous. >I think Thor = Oloron sounds very reasonable. Looking at Norse mythology Thor was not only associated with thunder, but also rain, fertility and agriculture. I had also thought about Thor at the beginning, but later discarded it mainly because he seemed to me too connected to Antalian and northmen culture. I mean, tanegiothians are a bit too out of the way for him.. Don't know why, it's just a feeling.. and besides, i think what i've come up with now sounds okay even without bothering the Thuderer.. ;) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 13:30:48 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format On Thu, 28 May 1998, Derek Harmon wrote: >D&D Gnomes? This must be from Top Ballista or something.. depending on what you supplement it with, you can have Pookas, Werefoxes, Treants and Orcs, this diversity only makes it look more like AD&D, though. Is 50 classes any different from 5 classes with 10 kits each? Well, actually, no. But then again, D&D is "Class" based, and not "race" based. in AD&D you are a human, orc, elf, or whatever. Then you choose a class. In D&D you are a Magic user, cleric, etc. and your race is predetermined. Either way it isn't very different. Especially if you have all the Racial Gaz's (Elves of Alfheim, Orcs of Thar, Dwarves of Rockhome, The 5 Shires, and the Shadow Elves) And the Creature crucibles. Those books detail a whole realm of special abilities for the different races, so D&D (With supplements) approximates AD&D. Of course, since none of this info survived the first printing.. Now if TSR/WotC would reprint all the D&D material from the late 80's-early 90's (RC, and the gaz/cc's.) Life would be a lot better. >Literacy is also taken for granted in D&D This really was a side effect of the "Known World" Campaigns. Even Karameikos, the most "fantasy-attuned" land has a respectable literacy rate of ~90%. Max IV - D&D player for life. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 13:34:19 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format On Thu, 28 May 1998, Derek Harmon wrote: >AD&D weapon specialization is greatly limited. D&D offers Grand Mastery, which lets you hurl two-handed swords like they were darts for like six dice of damage. Umm.. no. It takes a 34+ strength to even wield a 2 handed sword in one hand. Never mind throw it. I got that from the WotI boxed set, and from running a "children of Immortals" campaign. (6d6 for one ability, 4d6 for the others, no limits. Booyah!) Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 12:38:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't >I'm sure this will be the most unpopular thing I have ever writen. But I have to say it anyway. >Let us not strive for the return of Mystara to TSR. Let's leave it in our capable hands. Look at what has been done with out the company. I dread the thought of Mystara being as well defined as Forgotten Realms. I play in Mystara because of the fact that it's NOT. There's many holes in it that I get to fill with my own creative designs but there's enough of a backbone to build from. The beutiful thing about all campaigns is that you can always leave holes for you to fill in. I think what we are realy trying for with the rebirth of mystara is to get new players and DM's interested in our favorite setting. >This is a fantastic setting with alot of great support from everyone online. Let's keep it going with out the second rate material from TSR. I'll agree TSR has put out second rate material in the past but lately I have seen better stuff. They fully embrace the idea of only useing what you want to in a campaign. They give you options. And best of all they can get more players interested with their ability to mass market. I also love to detial parts of the world on my own but I'll never have the time to do one empire let alone the whole known world and hollow world. I would love TSR to publish that kind of material. Steve *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 12:40:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Godzillla in the world of Mystara >Already working on an adventure based on the movie i saw last week, I'm making this a Radiance Dragon, a Green dragon that was mutated by the Radiance by one of Prince Brannarts experaments, who later planted it in doh, i was gonna post about that :P HEHE, as soon as my PC's got a little higher one of those was gonna crash out of the Atlass ocean and hit Corisa (capital of Milenea, HW) I like you idea about the green dragon. I might have to try it :) Steve *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 12:48:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Stephen Dolan Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't >Except for Aaron Alston, Allen Varney, and Carl Sargeant all the material from TSR since 1985 is 3rd rate. Just check the publication I'll have to disagree with you here. I've really enjoyed some stuff published after this. Especailly over the last few years, Coledge of Wizardry, World Builders, and Duengeon builders have all sparked ideas for my campaign. I like Chronomancer and several others. >dates on the modules you've all been talking about voting for: B10, X11, X4, X5, X10, B4, B7. That game has been "out of print" for thirteen years. TSR screwed over the >OD&D game and the Known World setting with mediocre gaming material and abominable product design (e.g. the CDs). They cannot be The CD's were bad...I agree. And TSR learned that they were bad and have not published CD's since. >only care about the bottom line. They don't love the game. I'm darn tired of products that generate Talmudic discussions about continuity errors when the real reason is that the publisher just doesn't care. If they don't love the game why did they almost go bankrupt trying to keep publishing it? Steve *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 19:46:12 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? At 23.25 27/05/98 +0200, Andres wrote: >Having read one post about converting Godzilla to a Mystara adventure, I wonder if we could come across about a series of good (or bad, just well-known, if we do not like them, we can always turn them into something useful) movies. As the Titanicmania has struck well over the world, I am thinking of creating a Mystaran version of Titanic. I actually have come up with some adaptations of RW movies for my Mystara campaign and i'm planning on writing down an adventure based on action movies that involves... an halfling cook! this adventure will be a crossover of "Die Hard" and Steven Segal's "Trap on.." movies, with the halfling cook (ex member of the Shires Fangs) Stewynn Seagull as main character aiding the PCs.. I know it's crazy, but the crazier the better! ;p I've also played the D&D version of "Field of Dreams" (titled Ship of Dreams), Evil Dead and planned on "The usual suspects"... DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 20:01:27 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alamanc in Mystara At 22.46 26/05/98 -0400, David B. Olsen wrote: II read through most of the new almanac, including all the events section and like it a lot, especially Morphail's plot within a plot. Sounds typical of Glantrian politics. I find it also most interesting how the almanac itself has become quite a power in its own right. Originally, I believed the almanac was merely an aid for DMs; it never really "existed" in Mystara itself. Of course, that seemed to change when Joshuan took over. You're right here. Mainly, we decided to handle the Almanac as a real "fictional" product (sorry for the wordgame), and thus it had to be included somehow in Mystara's reality. The way we used the correspondants is very clear IMHO: they are not omniscient, just normal (or above normal) guys traveling the world and reporting what they see. And they do it using the mindsets they've grown up with, meaning they've got their personal views of the world, of politics and of other races (prejudices or stereotypes if you want). Why we're doing this? Simply because we think it makes Mystara (and the almanac) feeling more realistic inside the fiction! Then there is the Timeline section, and that's another matter. What we write there is from our omniscient point of view, but in many cases we (Editors) don't tell you (Readers) everything we know, and this is because we need to mantain some mysteries.. That's more fun! :) We don't trick you into believing something not real in this section, like we might do in the description of the countries: we simply avoid to tell you the whole truth to surprise you in the future (or maybe because we don't know what will happen neither!).. Anyway, this trend will continue in next almanac, and for my part, professor Dove will play a most vital role in uncovering what is really happening in Denagoth... Can't tell you more, sorry.. ;) >But even then, the almanac seemed to be a rather impartial observer. Now, the correspondents and the almanac itself seem to change the course of Mystaran events. Because of the almanac, the efreet have a new enemy in the "Arch of Fire," Favonius Viator was responsible for informing Thyatis about the undersea empire's war, and an innocent interview may have even deepened the rivalry between two great schools of magic. There was such important information in there that some peopled feared it so much that they burned the publication building down! What I'm trying to say is that the almanac is now a force to be reckoned with...even by the rulers of Mystara themselves! Some days ago Fabrizio asked me how much could the almanac cost in Mystara: my answer is that it's still a fairly rare product that only VIPs have. If you wanna buy it, i'd say you should pay at least 20 gp per copy or more. Remember: the printing machine is to be considered the first example of printer invented in RW in XV century, and it required much human strength to be operated and much time to print... Lynotypes and rotatives are not involved here (they came only in XIX century in RW...) Anyway, i'd say the powers of Mystara watch carefully over the almanac, especially because it's a source of precious information on far, rival and even enemy lands... :) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:05:16 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format At 01:30 PM 5/28/98 -0400, you wrote: >On Thu, 28 May 1998, Derek Harmon wrote: LLLiteracy is also taken for granted in D&D >This really was a side effect of the "Known World" Campaigns. Even Karameikos, the most "fantasy-attuned" land has a respectable literacy rate of ~90%. If one says that literacy is taken for granted by the rules system, then yes it is. That is because the rules system isn't really built for literacy and whatnot. That is more the realm of the setting itself. I would hesitate to say that Karameikos is described anywhere as having a 90% literacy rate. I could be wrong. But I don't recall every seeing this... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:10:35 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? At 07:46 PM 5/28/98 +0200, you wrote: >At 23.25 27/05/98 +0200, Andres wrote: >>Having read one post about converting Godzilla to a Mystara adventure, I wonder if we could come across about a series of good (or bad, just well-known, if we do not like them, we can always turn them into something useful) movies. As the Titanicmania has struck well over the world, I am thinking of creating a Mystaran version of Titanic. < >I actually have come up with some adaptations of RW movies for my Mystara campaign and i'm planning on writing down an adventure based on action movies that involves... an halfling cook! this adventure will be a crossover of "Die Hard" and Steven Segal's "Trap on.." movies, with the halfling cook (ex member of the Shires Fangs) Stewynn Seagull as main character aiding the PCs.. I know it's crazy, but the crazier the better! ;p I am in total awe of you right now. I did not even see the movie but I know a little about it.... I can just see it now... The Alphatian wormhole mass transit system is hijacked by a bunch of Thyatian terrorists. It is taken out to the Astral where the Randel special ops teams can't touch it. As the pcs stare in bewilderment at the panicking commuters, one halfling comes stealthily up the aisle. He speaks in a tough-guy voice, "Hey you. You gonna just sit there with your oj and your papers, or are you gonna help me squash these guys?" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:17:53 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alamanc in Mystara On Thu, 28 May 1998, DM wrote: >you wanna buy it, i'd say you should pay at least 20 gp per copy or more. Ah, but if you let the PC's buy a copy, remember to remove the sections dealing with the events of the upcoming year. That's a campaign spoiler. Also, I'd say 20 GP is still too much within reach of the common adventurer. Remember, GPs are fairly common on Mystara. How about a price of 2000 or more GP. Think about it. In Rahasia, you get over 3000 gp just in the treasure room, never mind the rest of the dungeon. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:18:56 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format On Thu, 28 May 1998, Daly wrote: >I would hesitate to say that Karameikos is described anywhere as having a 90% literacy rate. I could be wrong. But I don't recall every seeing this... I may have read too much into this. I'm probably overstating. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:20:48 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? On Thu, 28 May 1998, Daly wrote: >Thyatian terrorists. It is taken out to the Astral where the Randel ^^^^^^ >He speaks in a tough-guy voice, "Hey you. You gonna just sit there with your oj and your papers, or are you gonna help me squash these guys?" What makes it more funny is seeing a 2 dimensional halfling coming up the aisle.. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 20:40:14 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please read and respond! At 09.40 27/05/98 -0400, Jeff Daly wrote: ""We are the sleeping beast. I never slept when Mystara was calling for help, though i must admit sometimes i look like a beast.. ;) >"We could be an enormous economic asset to any game company that puts out material to attract us. In the absence of good material, we are likely to just continue sleeping. I would like to add: old D&D style Mystara related material would be undoubtely welcomed by every Mystara fan and immediately bought. New AD&D style would likely be highly disregarded or long kept under quarantine before even deciding whether to buy it or not (a reminiscience from ... G:KoM and the Survival Kits.. aarggh!) >"We are sophisticated (sometimes jaded) enough to look at a product carefully and NOT buy it unless it meets our strict standards. Thus, even if TSR did revive Mystara, they may not see an immediate gain from us. If they revived it the right way, i don't think we would hesitate. But they cannot expect us buying anything has the "Mystara" label on it (again: Survival Guides docent) >"We are the sleeping beast. Will we awaken? Will we rise and demand quality products, and in fact demonstrate quality products ourselves? Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:53:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #355 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: f8e7fc7d4dd8ac91e433b2fe91fbfc14 Are we? Do you think editing an almanac every year means we're slobbish and don't care about Mystara? Do you think putting up sites with "Mystara lives!" titles and tons of unpublished articles about Mystara makes TSR think we're not interested in reviving Mystara? I think we're doing now much more than what TSR did in all the nineties regarding Mystara. Jeff, this is not intended to be targeted at you; i know you want to see Mystara back as much as i do and that you're doing many efforts to reach this goal. What i wanted to say is that WE are NOT the Sleeping Beast: go look near Lake Geneva to see where the beast lay dormant while devouring our Mystara... >"If Mystara rose again, like the phoenix, would we be there guiding TSR with constant feedback on which products are desired? Will we instead remain silent, as we have done in the past, and allow TSR to produce juvie material which appeals to no one? Will we allow the company to sink alot of money once again into products that we know will not fly?" TSR has always had the means to understand if they were doing the right thing with Mystara: it's called marketing. If you see a product doesn't sell, then one of the main reasons can be it's a bad written or useless product; you gotta change the way you're doing it! TSR could have organized market interviews to understand where their main faults lay instead of dropping or closing lines only because they sold less than others.. opening new ones instead! Thus they could have seen the problem was their novels and not RPG campaigns. they could have seen the market was just overfilled with cards and TCG and it was not the fault of the campaigns if they sold less... Sad to say now, but TSR never used marketing strategies.. Hope WotC (who killed the RPG market, let's not forget it) will prove more cunning and able.. >These were the thoughts I was thunking. Now, once and for all, let's give it a shot. Let's commit to bringing Mystara back from Limbo and onto the shelves. If we had Mystara copyrights we would do it, no doubt. The fact is, Jeff, we have no power over this situation. TSR and WotC have to make the final judgement: it WotC's call, so to speak. We can beg, and pray and crawl to revive Mystara, but if WotC thinks it's not profitable, we cannot do anything more than what we're JUST doing: help Mystara survive with fanfic. >And for Rad's sake! Get on the TSR message boards! I am not asking your to make a lifetime commitment. I am merely begging you to go to the following address and make a single post! There are many good posts to respond to. You don't even have to think up anything original and brilliant. http://tsronline.wizards.com:80/mb/system/addnewuser.shtml Ah, TSR boards... You think TSR will consider reviving Mystara if they see so many posts on the Boards, don't you? I admit this is a nice hope: i hope this too. But let me tell you this: MPGN is officially linked to TSR as well, so they know we exist, but never said anything. TSR staff doesn't go so often to TSR Boards because they too find it too slow and crappy (heard it from TSR employees). And finally: we don't have any official member of current TSR among us, as other official lists have (Ravenloft, FR, Dragonlance, Planescape). Does this mean TSR is paying attention to us? The sad truth is: they do it only when we use copyrighted images from Mystara! *shakes his head with sorrow* Again Jeff, hope you understand this is not directed against you, rather against the Real Sleeping Beast... Hope facts will contradict my words, i really do... DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:44:51 -0400 From: David Brian Olsen Subject: [MYSTARA] - Foresters - --------------77186B94E23363C548BF2F0B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually, my family comes from Ostland :-) Seriously, though, you're right, I do have roots in Norway and with a little luck I'll be visiting some relatives there this summer. I've been watching the elf armor/casting magic debate with much interest and it's been pointed out that D&D elves can cast magic with armor on along with certain "militant AD&D wizards" with limitations. But there is a group of humans that can cast spells with armor on as well, with the D&D rules: Foresters. Foresters are just "human" elves, but can still cast spells with armor. And I have a theory for that. In the Thyatis gazeteer it says, "It is the influence of the Immortal Ilsundal that allows foresters to learn both magic and fighting. Only through adoption into an elf-clan requiring a ritual honoring Ilsundal, and becoming a member of the forester class, can a PC learn magic-use and fighting. Ordinary fighters can't learn magic; ordinary mages can't wear armor and use weapons. Period." Of course this is with D&D rules instead of AD&D. So my theory is that the immortals themselves, particulary Ilsundal, are responsible for allowing spellcasting while wearing armor and that the construction of the armor or the the age of the individual are irrelevant. Thoughts? - -David - --------------77186B94E23363C548BF2F0B Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually, my family comes from Ostland :-)
Seriously, though, you're right, I do have roots in Norway and with a little luck I'll be visiting some relatives there this summer.

I've been watching the elf armor/casting magic debate with much interest and it's been pointed out that D&D elves can cast magic with armor on along with certain "militant AD&D wizards" with limitations.  But there is a group of humans that can cast spells with armor on as well, with the D&D rules: Foresters.  Foresters are just "human" elves, but can still cast spells with armor.  And I have a theory for that.

In the Thyatis gazeteer it says, "It is the influence of the Immortal Ilsundal that allows foresters to learn both magic and fighting.  Only through adoption into an elf-clan requiring a ritual honoring Ilsundal, and becoming a member of the forester class, can a PC learn magic-use and fighting.  Ordinary fighters can't learn magic; ordinary mages can't wear armor and use weapons.  Period."

Of course this is with D&D rules instead of AD&D.  So my theory is that the immortals themselves, particulary Ilsundal, are responsible for allowing spellcasting while wearing armor and that the construction of the armor or the the age of the individual are irrelevant.  Thoughts?

-David - --------------77186B94E23363C548BF2F0B-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:41:10 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? At 02:20 PM 5/28/98 -0400, you wrote: >On Thu, 28 May 1998, Daly wrote: >>Thyatian terrorists. It is taken out to the Astral where the Randel ^^^^^^^ >>He speaks in a tough-guy voice, "Hey you. You gonna just sit there with your oj and your papers, or are you gonna help me squash these guys?" >What makes it more funny is seeing a 2 dimensional halfling coming up the aisle.. THAT'S TRUE!!!!!! Guess I kinda contributed to the humor, huh? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 20:47:06 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanc in Mystara At 14.17 28/05/98 -0400, Steelangel wrote: OOn Thu, 28 May 1998, DM wrote: >>you wanna buy it, i'd say you should pay at least 20 gp per copy or more. >Ah, but if you let the PC's buy a copy, remember to remove the sections dealing with the events of the upcoming year. That's a campaign spoiler. Of course... but only the "What Does It Mean" sections of the timeline is not included in fictional Mystara almanac.. >Also, I'd say 20 GP is still too much within reach of the common adventurer. Remember, GPs are fairly common on Mystara. How about a price of 2000 or more GP. Gulp! Well, i wanted to write 100+ gp (to me 1 gp is not 1 US dollar, but at least 10 dollars!).. Anyway keep less than three zeros: even adventurers have hard times (my players don't always have X000 gp with them..) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:53:08 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tanegioth Archipelago: many many problems.. Marco said: >Uhmm.. well, Induism does it, you're right, but you forget one thing: in Mystara the immortals of Thought and Energy are opposed. Don't think Ixion would be so happy to be worshipped as "another of Korotiku's personalities" (though i'm sure Kor would laugh madly at the thing). You're right, Korotiku would find that amusing. But to tell you the truth I forgot that Thought and Energy were opposed - I tend to think more in terms of Thought/Time/Energy vs Entropy - the fight against entropy overrules squabbles amongst the other spheres. But yeah, you're right. :-) >Uh? Sorry to contradict you here, but i've always thought the Yasuko are descended from Ochaleans (thus chinese-like..) I thought so too, but AFAIK they are related to the original inhabitantss of Ochalea (which, IMO, were Oltec-types, or what we see as Oriental, just like the Ethengars are Oltec-descended, as are the Jennites (though they're more like Scythians/Huns) - shold have cleared this up, but that was how I interpreted things. Even so, there are numerous writings (official and not) that could support this idea. >You see, i think the true identity of Oloron is tied to the tanegiothians racial heritage: if they are Oltec, then it's Ixion; if Tanagoro, then it's Korotiku; if Makai (Neathar -though i've always thought Makai should belong to Oltec stock..) then it could be .. no idea! :) Yeah, this is a good point. I have no idea what the Immortal would be if they were Makai - anyone know who the Makai of Ierendi worship? >Interesting thought, Geoff. Indeed, this seems most likely: first came the Oltecs then the Tanagoro and the two cultures (notably peaceful) merged. This could also explain the double nature of Oloron: for some it's the Sun Prince, for others it's the Lord of Sky (according to their traditions). Cool! :) Yeah! This is good. Maybe this element should be kept? >And the conquerors? I think you're referring to kopru and carnifex.. Partially. Remember that according to the stuff I've written, there were humans from the time of Lhomarr to the present (BC 10,000 or earlier to today) - no official source that I know of says exactly when humans first arose as a race, only that there was no "culture" as such - but I've argued this point before (if you have a continent sinking into the sea 8,000 years ago, taking with it a sophisticated culture and plunging the rest of humanity into a dark age, then by the time AC 1000 rolls around, no one will have remembered it, and would easily say that there was nothing before Blackmoor. But I digress). What I was thinking about was a succession of human invaders taking over the islands, building their culture on top of what's already there. Mind you, it could be peaceful, as you say. >yes, but according to your timeline for Vaath Zemoth (sorry: i'm pretty sure i misspelled the name ;p) the carnifex dominated Tanegioth far before humans came on Mystara and left it in the hands of the kopru, with troglodytes and lizardkin slaves roaming the islands. Lhomarr was around at the time, as were Ilarrn and other human nations (and these were just in Davania, others might have existed on Brun/Skothar, too). The whole sinking incident basically wiped the slate of civilization clean - bounced almost everything back to the Stone Age. Why? Well, perhaps the Immortals did not wish knowledge of the Carnifex to spread too far...expect more on the topic later on. The Kopru did indeed rule the island, in the name of the Carnifex, and they did rule over Troglodyte slaves. Many of those slaves mysteriously died, though. The Kopru retreated underground for a time, to hidden hot springs, to plot ways to regaining control. Some time later some humans migrated to the islands, and some of these fell under their sway. So humans have come >only after (BC 4000?), and maybe have been then enslaved by kopru who seeked better slaves than loathsome troglodytes. Only when those humans who lived in the southern part of the main isle understood there was something strange going on in the north did they retreat in the small peninsula and built the Great Wall, leaving many of their brethren to be conquered by the hateful dwellers of the deeps.. This is possible, too. But I'm a bit more partial to a group like the Taymorans trying to colonize the island, and building the wall to protect themselves. Still, you could easily have the Zombie Master scenario you give below, which is less of a stretch, and which fits in neatly. Perhaps once the wall was built, and the coastal natives forgot about the interior, and its dangers... >The only reference i have is a picture of an islander at the end of the book, where the "Monsters" entries are: it's black skinned. Maybe they vary? Some have more Tanagoro blood than others, just like in most people in the RW - there is no one "true" specimen of an ethnic group, IMO. >Uhmm.. could be. After all this discussion, this is what i came up with: the first inhabitants of what would have become the Tanegioth archipelago came to the region around 4,000 BC: they were Oltec explorers (in this same period the Oltecs seemed to be exploring many lands -Savage Coast and even Oceania!). Could be. This is definitely possible, as the old Oltec lands were nearby, relatively speaking. Let's not forget that Tanegioth was not a series of isles before BBC 3000 (Blackmoor catastrophe -i think you may have missed this Geoff, in your history of Vaath Zemoth..), but probably it was either part of the Forest of Ka (northern tip of Davania, only some hundred miles far from the northern continent where the Oltecs came from) or part of the mountain range in the southern tip of the northern continent (where the Aquarendi lived). Refer to Hollow World pre cataclysm map to understand what i'm talking about. Oh, I had that in mind. Looking at the map, Aquarendi looks like the area that is now Minrothad/Ierendi. The Gaz series says that this region was once mainland, and it fragmented around BC 2500-1750 or so. IIRC, similar disasters happened to the Serpent Peninsula around the same time, creating Thanegia island and the Dhiki Namazzi. IMO, the Thanegioths are too far away to have been part of the mainland, though they could have been larger, or even one long island at one time. I did similar things in my Isles of Steam article, tracing the rise and fall of ocean levels following glaciations, GRoF, and other things. Some time later, black-skinned people, Tanagoro explorers ffrom Skothar, also came to the region, settling peacibly alongside the Oltecs. Sounds good. >So the kopru arose from the deeps and began enslaving the humans, forming their (first?) empire around 2,990 BC. Sometime later, the slaves were able to revolt (maybe some kopru played their slaves against the other kopru's ones..). Some sort of sick joke on their part. This part is open to interpretation - - if you follow some of what I wrote, then humans could have come earlier. But it's up to you in any case - the idea is still the same. >At the end of this Kopru Empire (well, more a kingdom i'd say, since it encompassed only tanegioth) the rebelling humans (Oltecs + Tanagoro) fled southwards and helped by a majority of Tanagoro who already lived there, they held the small peninsula against the raids of the kopru's still controlled humans and troglodytes. Then they started building the Great Wall to keep the invaders out. However, during the construction they were harassed many times by kopru slaves and many were also killed. At this time, some people rose to prominence because they had mastery over death: they used their powers and knowledge to seal a pact with the Lady of Death, who granted them the ability to bring back people from the dead. However, these were not truly alive: only empty shells controlled by the necromancers. They used the fallen ones, also called Zombies, to build the Wall instead of living humans and to repel the enemies, and they were able to complete their task, earning great respect and honor from their tribesmen. They became the Zombie Lords, servants of the Lady of Death, and had the same powers and importance of the priests of Oloron. Oloron was said tp protect the villagers by day, while the Lady of Death worked by night.. I like this idea! >The other Kopru empires never conquered the southern peninsula, but were always in control of the greatest part of the island and probably of the other atolls as well (there were many other humans left). However, with time the humans died and were never replaced and at the end the kopru couldn't control their land anymore: when the last humans rebelled again, they were powerless (no more troops to defend them) and retreated in their deeps.. Mantru is thus the last village of humans descended from kopru slaves in the main isle of Tanegioth. >Sounds good? :) I like this! This is some good work, Marco! :) >Btw, i think the tanegiothians have had contacts with the makai of Ierendi for two reasons: the makai are expert seafarers (like Polynesians) and probably could have ventured that far. Also, there is a location in ierendi called Nyx's something (a geographical feature) and makai seem to also hold in high respect/fear necromancers: i'd say they could have been influenced in this by the south tanegiothians who worship the Lady of Death (Nyx in their own tongue).. Just a few ramblings. :) Logical. Are you adding more to this? >Or maybe he is Rory Barbarossa himself.. Remember: he was said to have vanished after he offended a mage. Okay, put the pieces together: Gargoyles can be found on Tanegioth, so this means a mage must have lived>(or still lives) there; Rory was trying to collect funds to explore the island and find lost treasures; Rory was a great explorer and pirate, so he may have had magical items in >his possession. I had never considered this! This is another interesting possibility, and one that meshes neatly with what's already out there. Imagine that, the PCs unknowingly poke about the remains of the great pirate and explorer himself... I look forward to more on this... Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #355 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:59:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #356 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 3dde172c52364a16f8327020030369e6 mystara-digest Thursday, May 28 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 356 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re(2): [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? [MYSTARA] - Illithids and Kopru Re: Re(2): [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? Re: Re(2): [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? Re: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please read and respond! [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Novels (was: MystaraRising! Please read and respond!) [MYSTARA] - Denagoth and Wendar Re: [MYSTARA] - Denagoth and Wendar Re: [MYSTARA] - MISC: Savage Coast Net Logo Contest Update Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 20:59:48 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? At 14.10 28/05/98 -0400, Daly wrote: >I am in total awe of you right now. Ehe, yeah, i know sometimes people react this way with me ;) >The Alphatian wormhole mass transit system is hijacked by a bunch of Thyatian terrorists. It is taken out to the Astral where the Randel special ops teams can't touch it. Well, actually i planned staging it on the Sea of Dread, and it involves plots and counterplots and subplots by the main villains. It would be an adventure with international repercussions on the Known World (involving Minrothad, Ierendi, Thyatis, Darokin and even Hule -post WotI). I guess i'll write it for the MystaraWriters in the summer.. Only problem will be drawing the ship's layout... >As the pcs stare in bewilderment at the panicking commuters, one halfling comes stealthily up the aisle. >He speaks in a tough-guy voice, "Hey you. You gonna just sit there with your oj and your papers, or are you gonna help me squash these guys?" And as the hin cook shoots at the bad guy right in the middle of the forehead he yells: "Yippey ya yay, piece o' troll!" ;) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 15:07:40 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Galwylin wrote: >Karameikans. So, if Halav & Co. don't want their worshippers to slowly (but surely) be fade away, they have got to do a few things. Reinforce Traladaran values (which will most likely become opposition to the government as racial stereotypes are brought back). Bring back the Racial stereotypes have been brought back? I guess I need to catch up on events. 3:)> I can see we have a different view of CoT and CoK. You're coming at this as if CoT is the one that's failing. I, on the other hand, feel CoT is growing (at least it had a monopolistic 70% of the population as late as 1010 AC in K:KoA which shows no decline over the decade). I think CoT, and their patrons Halav & Co. (no, not the weapon's chain store, the immortal triumvirate 3;)> ) can leverage their advantage. But acknowledging these different perspectives, it'll be quite difficult for me to convince you otherwise: that CoK will fall. 3:D> >anti-social feelings the Traladarans had against the Thyatians. Align themselves with the Cult of Halav in effort to have the numbers needed to influence the Karameikan government. I see them distancing themselves from the Cult of Halav.. becoming more main stream. You have three churchs in Karameikos.. the right (CoK), the middle (CoT) and the far left (CoH). In the end, the right and left vestiges will fall off, most Karameikans will follow the middle (tho talking politics, the right and left may always exist, but history always returns to the center). >While your information is correct in 1000 AC, it doesn't take into account that Stefan is attempting to forge a kingdom. He's not going to Well, I think even in 1000 AC, forging a kingdom was on Stefan's mind. 3;)> >attempt that without showing that Karameikans are both Thyatians AND Traladarans. He needs the Traladarans' support and numbers in order to make such a feat possible. So, your statistics aren't bad because they may be outdated by deaths and such Ok, WHEN WILL OLIVER JOWETT DIE?? 38D> I think the old man's been dipping into the Longevity Potions just a little too much. >but they're bad because they don't >take into account the changes being made and one change (especially in governments that support a state religion) will be in the religion. Exactly my point. King Stefan (I almost said Duke there..) will make the Church of Traladara the new state religion! 3:)> Think of what he has to gain by hitching his wagon to the winning religion? Much easier to pull off than bolstering a failing religion. I mean, aside from the small revolution he may face. 3;D> I suspect Halav is pulling for Stefan and CoT... if you believe an iota of what CoH suggests. Meanwhile, I think the Immortals behind CoK (if you believe CoK has Immortals) wouldn't see the Church's decline as a major loss, and might instead encourage CoK to turn their efforts to becoming missionaries.. the Jesuits of the Known World; rather than either duking it out with Halav, or accepting him into their midst (and both factions may exist in that pantheon, which is the likely reason neither would get their way). Of course, I don't believe CoK has a pantheon.. 3;D> but even without one, they have all the more reason to become a bunch of itinerants. Then they could hold their small devoted base in Karameikos, expand abroad, and allow CoT reign over the population, which is what CoT has anyway. I don't think old man Jowett is ready for a revolution if Stefan switchs the state to the CoT. All the deaths that would stain his con- science, and all. >While Karameikos was still a part of the Thyatian Empire, it couldn't very well make such changes to the state religion. That is no longer a problem and now the Church of Karameikos is free (in whatever way Stefan allows) to change and grow. .. or flounder and shrink! But I think they can change and grow, though domestically, CoT will always be the Church of the People. CoK must look elsewhere for their future. Maybe they can hurl themselves into space.. and settle on another world, and then they could re-live the saga we all know by heart of the Alphatians.. 3;D> -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 15:07:50 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Stephen Dolan wrote: >>Except for Aaron Alston, Allen Varney, and Carl Sargeant all the material from TSR since 1985 is 3rd rate. Just check the publication >I'll have to disagree with you here. I've really enjoyed some stuff Did Aaron Alston, Allen Varney or Carl Sargeant write that? 3;D> Anyway, I disagree, too. I do think in the 90's TSR began re- packaging old material and selling it second and third times; but that's a different matter. >>OD&D game and the Known World setting with mediocre gaming material and abominable product design (e.g. the CDs). They cannot be >The CD's were bad...I agree. And TSR learned that they were bad and have not published CD's since. I think the Known World setting had great gaming material.. hence the existance of this list as Testimonial (one might think we're pawns on the creators' paths to immortality.. 3;D> ) As for the CDs, I don't use them as a whole. But I do use them piecemeal.. every time a door slams or combat breaks out. The sound effects and themes are really useful. "Turn that corner up ahead, uh oh, DM is playing that music again!" >>only care about the bottom line. They don't love the game. They're businesspeople. They're supposed to care about the bottom line. And like it or not, it's their bottom line that directly reflects the love of their consumers for the game. So ... if their bottom line suffers, we don't love them enough. 3:)> But by watching over the bottom line, they're sheparding the love of us fans, even if perhaps some of them don't share that love; and others perhaps do. But they are what they are. If their copyright lawyers came down on you for copyright infingement of some derived work, it's because they were TSR's copyright lawyers, not the "minions of Orcus!" 3:)> Need to keep some perspective here. >If they don't love the game why did they almost go bankrupt trying to keep publishing it? Good point, Steve. -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:11:12 -0600 From: Patriarch@cmnwrld.com (Patriarch) Subject: Re(2): [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? Movies are a great way to start a campaign! The tough part is changing it enough so the players dont know till the end. The only problem is that most never seem to end like the movie. Most of the campaigns I ran from movies titles changed half way through the movie. (the players never knew the campaign was from a movie because it changed so much) Movie I have done: The best was - Willow (I had bargle as the main villain) Use this, trust me, it works! young guns (went well but you have to mold PC characters) Rob Roy Treasure Island (they saw it coming) ..a few other I took bits and pices form that I cant remember now Movie I plan on using: BraveHeart 12 Monkeys - This will be epic! Alphatin Mages try to save the Island by using Chronomancy. Cool Huh. IMC it is 1006 and I think the Island will sink, but will not go to HW. The crazy new emperor Zandor and his council (the scientists) send what is left back in time to save the Island. In the end I want the Island to just 'show up' where is was in the year 102?. The Godfather - I just love the movies. I want to turn one, two or all the Darokin merchant families into a darker Darokin Mob like families. I dont know if it will work but I am going to put time into it one day. (this might be what I do for the Mystara Writers Group) We will see Other I ideas: The Beast Master Any Conan Story The Blues Brothers "Were on a mission from Petra" First Knight Dragon Heart Patriarch mailto:Patriarch@cmnwrld.com SAVEMYSTARA!!! http://CWSpot.com/mystara/savemystara/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 12:17:26 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Illithids and Kopru >>is no evidence that they eat them at all. The Illithiad describes mind >>flayers in terms that suggest that they are uniquely horrible creatures. They May be Unique as the book describes, but Maybe a mutations like a exposure to the Radiance long ago might have cause a certain Illithid to spawn the Kopru. >Yech. I do have to say it, the Illithiad was one of the best books I have >ever read dealing with a particular species, but it wasn't exactly appetizing, especially after my sister ponted out the full color photobook of an autopsy at barnes and nobles. >Another against: Kopru live underwater. Anyone have PC3 to look through? I have it at home somewhere, but I can't remember the details on Kopru physiology. I also think that Kopru physically different than Illithids too. They some simularities too, first of all, Both Creatures as tadpoles live in a warm water environment. Two, they look simular in the facial features. and three both living as far from the sun as possible. Some of the Difference between these creature are that the Kopru is not known to possess Psionics, AFAIK, or even Happen to have an ability to use Magic. Maybe some of you might prove me wrong. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 15:18:30 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Re(2): [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? On Thu, 28 May 1998, Patriarch wrote: >The Beast Master This tale would be best suited for the great waste, or maybe southern Davania, Palatan, or near Izonda. I can't see child sacrifice, or very primitive human cultures in areas like Glantri, or Thyatis. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:22:42 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: Re(2): [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? At 14.11 28/05/98 -0600, you wrote: >Movies are a great way to start a campaign! The tough part is changing it enough so the players dont know till the end. The only problem is that most never seem to end like the movie. Most of the campaigns I ran from movies titles changed half way through the movie. (the players never knew the campaign was from a movie because it changed so much) I know! That's the same trick i used with my pcs.. ;) >The Godfather - I just love the movies. I want to turn one, two or all the Darokin merchant families into a darker Darokin Mob like families. I dont know if it will work but I am going to put time into it one day. (this might be what I do for the Mystara Writers Group) We will see Better: use Thyatian Shadow Hand (thieves guild), not Darokin.. Also, we're creating Norwold branch of Thyatian "causa nostra", just if you're interested ;) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 12:29:02 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? >Having read one post about converting Godzilla to a Mystara adventure, I >wonder if we could come across about a series of good (or bad, just well-known, if we do not like them, we can always turn them into something >useful) movies. As the Titanicmania has struck well over the world, I am >thinking of creating a Mystaran version of Titanic. A big Alphatian ship >from the NACE shipwrights which made a maiden sail (or engine!) from Ionace >to Norworld would be fine. Possibilities are infinite: from Thyatian sabotage to thievery (perhaps on the part of the PCs), espionage and court >intrigue and, if you are ready to resist it, the love-thingye (when I saw >the movie, I thoguht: "If only I could have tossed that Leonardo DiCaprio into the icy Atlantic in minute 75"). Hey!! At least, IMO, that annoying twit died in the end, (my apologizes to all the Dicaprio fans out there. [cricket noises], alright at i'm not alone with this opinion. YES ;-) ) >I you want an all-and-out, have the Alphasic sink into the Hollow World! I thought of another variant, too: a magical Glantri ship (such mad building would fit in the character of Jaggar von Drachenfels, if only the poor guy had not been maimed in the war with Ethengar) which makes a pleasure tour through the planes of existence. Chance (and Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:59:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #356 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 3dde172c52364a16f8327020030369e6 perhaps Dolores) could be worse than any iceberg.> True, But have a small meteor shower like the one in this summer movie, Apocalypse I take life with a grain of salt...a slice of lemon, and a shot tequila. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 15:31:34 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please read and respond! At 08:40 PM 5/28/98 +0200, you wrote: >At 09.40 27/05/98 -0400, Jeff Daly wrote: """We are the sleeping beast. >I never slept when Mystara was calling for help, though i must admit sometimes i look like a beast.. ;) No my friend, you haven't. I am currently going through your "Skin Trade" adventure and giving it my best critical eye... >>"We could be an enormous economic asset to any game company that puts out material to attract us. In the absence of good material, we are likely to just continue sleeping. >I would like to add: old D&D style Mystara related material would be undoubtely welcomed by every Mystara fan and immediately bought. New AD&D style would likely be highly disregarded or long kept under quarantine before even deciding whether to buy it or not (a reminiscience from ... G:KoM and the Survival Kits.. aarggh!) I am not even sure the old stuff would be bought too quickly. We have all felt a certain sting in the past from the TSR products. I read the wounded feelings often enough to understand that there are emotions out there that simply boggle the mind it the strength of passion present... But my main point is that we are numerous enough to be worth a look. If we were a tiny minority (4 or 5 people) then I would not even encourage anyone to take us seriously. It would not be moral of me. But I know there are enough of us (over 200 on the list, over 40 on the petition, almost 20 in the Mystaran writers) who are interested in Mystara that we are an economic asset...or would be at least... >>"We are sophisticated (sometimes jaded) enough to look at a product carefully and NOT buy it unless it meets our strict standards. Thus, even if TSR did revive Mystara, they may not see an immediate gain from us. >If they revived it the right way, i don't think we would hesitate. But they cannot expect us buying anything has the "Mystara" label on it (again: Survival Guides docent) I don't know. I have hesitated in the past myself. When the announcement came that D&D would be dropped I knew it was a bad move. But you know what? I made no effort to tell anyone. I just griped to my group but in essence kept my opinion to myself regarding those who mattered. >>"We are the sleeping beast. Will we awaken? Will we rise and demand quality products, and in fact demonstrate quality products ourselves? >Are we? Do you think editing an almanac every year means we're slobbish and don't care about Mystara? Do you think putting up sites with "Mystara lives!" titles and tons of unpublished articles about Mystara makes TSR think we're not interested in reviving Mystara? Calm down my friend. Tell me something, am I remembering correctly? Are you from Italy? Maybe I am totally off my rocker...but I seem to recall you being from Italy... Anyway, I think you misunderstand my "sleeping beast" metaphor. I don't mean to say that we are beastly. I mean to say that if we all as one bought a product, we would have a huge impact. I am not saying should or should not about anything. I am merely pointing out the strength of our position. There is a tendency to think that we are a minority. I don't know if that is true or not. But I do know we would have an impact. I think we're doing now >much more than what TSR did in all the nineties regarding Mystara. We are certainly doing alot. And what I hope is that such things as the net almanac might get the proper recognition it deserves. Could you imagine if it was published someday with beautiful artwork and a nice cover? In any case, I am not remarking on the likelihood or unlikelihood of such a thing. I am certainly not downing everyone's net efforts. As a contributor to the net effort I would have to be denigrating myself! >Jeff, this is not intended to be targeted at you; i know you want to see Mystara back as much as i do and that you're doing many efforts to reach this goal. What i wanted to say is that WE are NOT the Sleeping Beast: go look near Lake Geneva to see where the beast lay dormant while devouring our Mystara... My friend, this is exactly the kind of over-emotional response that I try to steer away from. I think they made mistakes, but I do not believe they were out to get us. >>"If Mystara rose again, like the phoenix, would we be there guiding TSR with constant feedback on which products are desired? Will we instead remain silent, as we have done in the past, and allow TSR to produce juvie material which appeals to no one? Will we allow the company to sink alot of money once again into products that we know will not fly?" >TSR has always had the means to understand if they were doing the right thing with Mystara: it's called marketing. If you see a product doesn't sell, then one of the main reasons can be it's a bad written or useless product; you gotta change the way you're doing it! But then why did the Commodore 64 die? It was a superior machine to anything else on the market. But you know what? Commodore was absolutely stupid in the marketing. They were even warned of the impending doom. But now they are as the dodo... Same with Beta video machines. Why did VCRs win out when I hear the Betas were superior? Because of marketing... TSR could have >organized market interviews to understand where their main faults lay instead of dropping or closing lines only because they sold less than others.. opening new ones instead! They made several attempts to keep Mystara alive. I think they were poor attempts. But I don't believe they were malicious. I have said time and again that the main mistake was they marketed to a nonexistent new gamer instead of to us oldtimers. But the need was for new gamers. They just did not follow through in educating nongamers into becoming this new gamer. See what I mean? Thus they could have seen the problem >was their novels and not RPG campaigns. I don't know. I have no doubt that most of their novels probably did not make money for them. I am somewhat baffled that they persisted with them. In fact, I will even go farther to say that most of the writers weren't terribly impressive. But that is partly the fault of the editors... they could have seen the market was >just overfilled with cards and TCG and it was not the fault of the campaigns if they sold less... Perhaps they should have pulled some of the lesser selling campaigns earlier to ride out the storm of the cards. Sad to say now, but TSR never used marketing sstrategies.. Hope WotC (who killed the RPG market, let's not forget it) will prove more cunning and able.. You know, I think they will. What I have seen so far from them is good marketing. >>These were the thoughts I was thunking. Now, once and for all, let's give it a shot. Let's commit to bringing Mystara back from Limbo and onto the shelves. >If we had Mystara copyrights we would do it, no doubt. That is not going to happen. It is a pipedream. But the fact that it is a pipedream can be seen as a somewhat tiny pinpoint of light. The fact is, Jeff, >we have no power over this situation. We do have power over the situation. And you and I are both using those powers to effect a change. When you and I have adventures and article published, they will be so interesting that people will flock to our banner and demand a revival of the Mystara setting. TSR and WotC have to make the final >judgement: it WotC's call, so to speak. Of course they have the final say. But if we have well over 200 people supporting the effort, including 20+ writers and 50+ petitioners, WotC can't help but notice us. We can beg, and pray and crawl to >revive Mystara, but if WotC thinks it's not profitable, That is exactly the point. We have to convince them that Mystara can be profitable. One of the things we can do to convince is to write good solid adventures and articles. If we can out perform the earlier writers we have a solid shot. Say, aren't you the one who is doing a "better" AD&D conversion? This is another important element, you know. And with your permission, one I plan to incorporate into the overall strategy.... we cannot do >anything more than what we're JUST doing: help Mystara survive with fanfic. No. Fanfic is one thing. Petitions are another thing. Voices are another thing. And a Holy Avenger is still another... >>And for Rad's sake! Get on the TSR message boards! I am not asking your to make a lifetime commitment. I am merely begging you to go to the following address and make a single post! There are many good posts to respond to. You don't even have to think up anything original and brilliant. >>http://tsronline.wizards.com:80/mb/system/addnewuser.shtml >Ah, TSR boards... You think TSR will consider reviving Mystara if they see so many posts on the Boards, don't you? Why are you trying to shatter my hopes? *grin* No. This is one element. The MMB is more visible than the MML. That is a simple fact. Trust me, at least the net admin is going to start noticing when his site continues to crash due to the overwhelming amount of messages on the MMB... *wink* I admit this is a nice hope: i hope >this too. But let me tell you this: MPGN is officially linked to TSR as well, so they know we exist, but never said anything. TSR staff doesn't go so often to TSR Boards because they too find it too slow and crappy (heard it from TSR employees). And finally: we don't have any official member of current TSR among us, as other official lists have (Ravenloft, FR, Dragonlance, Planescape). Does this mean TSR is paying attention to us? The sad truth is: they do it only when we use copyrighted images from Mystara! *shakes his head with sorrow* I was an observer during those days. Now, you know, whether I agree with the whole copyright thing or not, you have to admit, it is a completely different ballgame now. They revised the rules. >Again Jeff, hope you understand this is not directed against you, rather against the Real Sleeping Beast... >Hope facts will contradict my words, i really do... I have complete faith that it is not a matter of when Mystara is resurrected...but how.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:00:01 -0500 From: "Thomas J. Mahaney" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Novels (was: MystaraRising! Please read and respond!) Perhaps we could pique interest for reviving Mystara by first convincing WotC to put out some more Novels. Good novels seemed to be a good vehicle for creating interest in some of the other AD&D campaign worlds. Although strong sales of novels does not necessarily guarantee strong gaming sales (e.g. Dragonlance), it might be a first step. Thomas J. Mahaney II Help Desk Coordinator Office of Information Technologies Lederle Graduate Research Center Lowrise University of Massachuetts Amherst, MA 01003 tmahaney@oit.umass.edu (413) 545-2692 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:03:28 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Denagoth and Wendar Hi! Just for the sake of curiosity, after you read the events in the timeline and the entries for Wendar and Denagoth, what's your impression about the facts going on there? Do you think the elves will be able to stand against the Shadowlord? Do you think Wendar is on the verge of chaos? Do you think if Alfheimers are able to get back to Canolbarth the Elven Crusade in Denagoth will end? Who do you think is behind the events in Wendar & Denagore? Do you think the following is a right comparison: Denagoth = Moria? Gimme feedback, okay? ;) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:18:52 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Denagoth and Wendar On Thu, 28 May 1998, DM wrote: >Do you think if Alfheimers are able to get back to Canolbarth ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ With all the upheaval in the Shadow Elves' lands, Aengmor should be ripe for the plucking if the elves are smart :) Max IV - Shadow elves belong in the ground darnit :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 13:38:17 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MISC: Savage Coast Net Logo Contest Update >Michael Morris, the creator of the Dusk Campaign, has recently sent me an E-mail saying that he will devote some webspace for the net logo ccandidates. >All we need is a judge, and we can start taking logos. So, who wishes to judge? I can judge the logos, and i'm other member of the MML will soon follow. Web Site Update: - ---------------- Geographica is completed Mages' Interview Complete Famous Folks Done Currently Tabling the Calendar. See for yourself at Http://members.tripod.com/~mktriton/index.html Check it out. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:01:35 -0500 From: "Lord BKis1" Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't >What I'm hearing on this is that you don't want to buy it and don't want anyone else to be *able* to buy it. Why is that? What is it that would bother you so bad that you couldn't stand to see Mystara sitting on the shelves along side its other settings? >-- >This has been a Galwylin(c) Production >galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) >http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ What would bother me is seeing Mystara on the selves with a AD&D logo on it and a CD inside. That was not progress that was destruction. Mystara is a D&D product to the core. I would rather they move there production and marketing dollars into other areas if they plan to do that again. I suspect a renewed Mystara line would be a AD&D world with some changes. Really not preserving it's uniqueness at all. Now the correct approach(I'm sure most people would agree) is to return to the original GAZ format. But if that made sense (talking about sales) they would have never have discontinued it in the first place. So fine. They bring make Mystara and lose a bunch of money. Nobody wins. So why try to force it? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #356 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 20:24:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #357 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: b638fb63c31ee61f8d0bdb29a15d3e7e mystara-digest Thursday, May 28 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 357 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Godzillla in the world of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Godzillla in the world of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Godzillla in the world of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please read and respond! Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please read and respond! Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff Re: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri Re: Re(2): [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:15:50 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Godzillla in the world of Mystara >>Already working on an adventure based on the movie i saw last week, I'm >>making this a Radiance Dragon, a Green dragon that was mutated by the Radiance by one of Prince Brannarts experaments, who later planted it in >doh, i was gonna post about that :P >HEHE, as soon as my PC's got a little higher one of those was gonna crash >out of the Atlass ocean and hit Corisa (capital of Milenea, HW) I like you idea about the green dragon. I might have to try it :) >Steve Well, Steve, let your Hit Corisa, besides it might be one of his children saved by Ka himself, Cause i'm Having him hit the City of Thyatis, and build a nest in the Catacomb of the Thyatian Arena. BTW, Horoscope Section of the Almanac will be complete by the end of the Day. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:16:06 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Godzillla in the world of Mystara >>Already working on an adventure based on the movie i saw last week, I'm >>making this a Radiance Dragon, a Green dragon that was mutated by the Radiance by one of Prince Brannarts experaments, who later planted it in >doh, i was gonna post about that :P >HEHE, as soon as my PC's got a little higher one of those was gonna crash >out of the Atlass ocean and hit Corisa (capital of Milenea, HW) I like you idea about the green dragon. I might have to try it :) >Steve Well, Steve, let yours Hit Corisa, besides it might be one of his children saved by Ka himself, Cause i'm Having him hit the City of Thyatis, and build a nest in the Catacomb of the Thyatian Arena. BTW, Horoscope Section of the Almanac will be complete by the end of the Day. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:17:18 PDT From: "George Valencia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Godzillla in the world of Mystara >>Already working on an adventure based on the movie i saw last week, I'm >>making this a Radiance Dragon, a Green dragon that was mutated by the Radiance by one of Prince Brannarts experaments, who later planted it in >doh, i was gonna post about that :P >HEHE, as soon as my PC's got a little higher one of those was gonna crash >out of the Atlass ocean and hit Corisa (capital of Milenea, HW) I like you idea about the green dragon. I might have to try it :) >Steve Well, Steve, let yours Hit Corisa, besides it might be one of his children saved by Ka himself, Cause i'm Having him hit the City of Thyatis, and build a nest in the Catacomb of the Thyatian Arena. And it's a Green Radiance-Infused Dragon. BTW, Horoscope Section of the Almanac will be complete by the end of the Day. Guys this is correction of a message i accidently email earlier. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:38:40 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Lord BKis1 wrote: >What would bother me is seeing Mystara on the selves with a AD&D logo on it and a CD inside. That was not progress that was destruction. Mystara is a D&D product to the core. >I would rather they move there production and marketing dollars into other areas if they plan to do that again. I suspect a renewed Mystara line would be a AD&D world with some changes. Really not preserving it's uniqueness at all. Mystara's uniqueness can be perserved under AD&D. I'm not crazy about the sets with CDs but if you remember back, TSR thought they were the next big craze. Ravenloft, Planescape, Red Steel, their Intro to AD&D set all had them. They were just adding them to everything (including Mystara) because they thought it would catch on. It didn't but Mystara wasn't singled out to be destroyed. >Now the correct approach(I'm sure most people would agree) is to return to the original GAZ format. But if that made sense (talking about sales) they would have never have discontinued it in the first place. I think that's the approach they were taking with the boxes. The correct way (IMO) was to introduce the setting as a whole first then comes the Gazetteers. Not substitute the Gazetteers with boxes without an overall setting. Mystara lacks a world veiw as it is seen as many settings on a single world and the contrast are just marked off as 'its fantasy'. >So fine. They bring make Mystara and lose a bunch of money. Nobody wins. So why try to force it? Well there's really no way of forcing WotC to see a market that doesn't exist. But what some are doing on this list and the MMB is to get WotC to see there is a market there. Is it large enough? I don't honestly think so but I'm willing to be wrong and not take it as a sign that Mystara deserves to be forgotten and regulated to a few folks on the net. I don't see the comments on the list about not wanting TSR to publish Mystara again as immature. I see it as arrogant. - -- This has been a Galwylin(c) Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:46:41 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Philosophy and the Immortals Derek Harmon wrote: >I can see we have a different view of CoT and CoK. You're coming at this as if CoT is the one that's failing. I, on the other hand, feel CoT is growing (at least it had a monopolistic 70% of the population as late as 1010 AC in K:KoA which shows no decline over the decade). I think CoT, and their patrons Halav & Co. (no, not the weapon's chain store, the immortal triumvirate 3;)> ) can leverage their advantage. But acknowledging these different perspectives, it'll be quite difficult for me to convince you otherwise: that CoK will fall. 3:D> Probably true. >.. or flounder and shrink! But I think they can change and grow, though domestically, CoT will always be the Church of the People. CoK must look elsewhere for their future. Well, my arguements are based on that future as my plans for Karameikos does include the loss of the Traladaran majority ;> - -- This has been a Galwylin(c) Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 18:35:11 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? Patriarch wrote: >The Beast Master >Any Conan Story >The Blues Brothers "Were on a mission from Petra" First Knight >Dragon Heart "We're on a mission from Petra!" I really like that! 3BD> Dragonheart might involve threatening the Dragons of Mystara with extinction though, I don't know. If you're up for radical earth-shaking WotI-like adventure, I guess. But the movie wasn't even that good. 3;)> As for TV Shows I converted to MYSTARA, I did a rendition of the Gilligan's Island plot to an adventure called The Vacation, set in Ierendi. They go on an island tour, a 3-hour tour, a 3-hour tour, and strand them- selves on a deserted island full of adventure, until they were rescued. -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 18:35:02 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Many Settings of Mystara Kaviyd wrote: >>Well, I'm not up on my Scandinavian history but the Danes I'm speaking ooof are the ones that terrorized the coasts of France and England and eventually settled there. I maybe wrong but I'm pretty sure they were Vikings first and later called Danes. I have no idea where these Danish folk come from ;> I think the Danes came from Denmark. Like the Great Danes, a breed of dog, did. And as being from Denmark, they would be constitute a portion of the Vikings to which you refer. As for whether they were called Vikings as a group or not, and why, well, the English and French wrote the history books so if they called them "Vikings," they existed[1]. But they were likely a consortium of the Danes, Swedes, Norweigians... whether the English serf whose coastal farm was pillaged cared or not was another matter[2]. -- Stonelight [1] "Is red a color if nobody calls it red?" [2] "If you get hit by a car, do you care if its a Volvo or a Mazda?" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 18:35:19 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please read and respond! Daly wrote: >>>"We could be an enormous economic asset to any game company that puts out material to attract us. In the absence of good material, we are likely to just continue sleeping. >>I would like to add: old D&D style Mystara related material would be undoubtely welcomed by every Mystara fan and immediately bought. New AD&D style would likely be highly disregarded or long kept under quarantine before even deciding whether to buy it or not (a reminiscience from ... G:KoM and the Survival Kits.. aarggh!) I would prefer [to the person Daly was reponding to] the new Mystara material to be AD&D accessories (not sure if you mean by "AD&D style" AD&D rule system, as I'm taking it, or "AD&D style" meaning crap, which you might also mean from what I've read of this thread..) TSR would already have a chore raising Mystara again, it would only be complicated if they hitched it back to OD&D and tried to raise OD&D too. We should be realistic here. Besides, I've worked hard to integrate my Mystara into an AD&D world. : >But my main point is that we are numerous enough to be worth a look. If we were a tiny minority (4 or 5 people) then I would not even encourage anyone to take us seriously. It would not be moral of me. But I know there are enough of us (over 200 on the list, over 40 on the petition, almost 20 in the Mystaran writers) who are interested in Mystara that we are an economic asset...or would be at least... Over 200 an economic asset? Why should TSR put out material to attract just over 200 people? Suppose they put out a $15 accessory. And suppose 200 of us bought it. What are TSR's revenues? $3,000. How much do you think it costs to produce 96 page accessories perhaps with a map and sell it for $15? Justifying a print run of 200? Do you think all the TSR writers can take the profit left over home as a paycheck and feed their families? or themselves? or their canary? 3;D> TSR needs tens of thousands interested in a product to warrant producing it. Everyone who is interested won't neccessarily buy it. But if only hundreds of people are interested, it's just not a market to publish to. A lot of people have contributed a lot of material on this list to the greater glory of Mystara, and that's great.. but this is an e-mail list, and we are on the World Wide Web (not to belittle us, but to point out our medium).. the expenses involved in posting an E-Mail message or publishing a Web site vs. publishing in print and distributing through retail channels are very different. Before we criticize TSR for not publishing, let's realistically look at the size of the market they see. If everyone posts on the TSR Online message boards like Bruce has suggested... maybe we can show them we're bigger than they think, but if we only show them we're 200-some people... if we ARE only 200-some people, it's not an economic asset for them to publish for. -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:31:14 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please read and respond! At 06:35 PM 5/28/98 -0400, Derek Harmon wrote: [[[...]But I know there are >>enough of us (over 200 on the list, over 40 on the petition, almost 20 in the Mystaran writers) who are interested in Mystara that we are an economic asset...or would be at least... >Over 200 an economic asset? Why should TSR put out material to attract just over 200 people? [...] >TSR needs tens of thousands interested in a product to warrant producing it. Everyone who is interested won't neccessarily buy it. But if only hundreds of people are interested, it's just not a market to publish to. >[...] >If everyone posts on the TSR Online message boards like Bruce has suggested... maybe we can show them we're bigger than they think, but if we only show them we're 200-some people... if we ARE only 200-some people, it's not an economic asset for them to publish for. Well, StoneLight, you have a few good points there -- only 200 interested individuals does not an economic force make. However, 200 members on a mailing list is probably a pretty good statistical sign that there is a significantly larger number of 'Mystara Lovers' out there -- which might just /be/ the economic force WotC/TSR is looking for. When marketing research is done, it is generally 'accepted' that the number of individuals who get so thoroughly involved with a hobby/topic/etc that they get vocal about it is only a fraction of the total number of indivudals who are involved with it. The others may love it just as much, but spend their 'spare' time with other persuits and are thus not as vocal. I've heard the number '5%' bandied about by some of the folks in marketing where I work, which would suggest taking our 200+ and multiplying by 20 -- 4000+. And that's 4000+ who are seriously interested in a world that is otherwise 'dead' in the realms of RPGs -- which doesn't seem to bad to me. 'Tens of Thousands' is perhaps what any RPG company would ultimately hope to gain in loyal customrs, but do remember that WotC/TSR probably has that 'Tens of Thousands' when scattered across all the different worlds and products they are producing. As a result, I believe that any one individual world needs only 'Thousands' of loyal players -- and needs to provide the potential to attract a few 'Thousands' more. In any case, if I am correct in my belief, then a 200+ mailing list just Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 20:24:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #357 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: b638fb63c31ee61f8d0bdb29a15d3e7e might represent an economic force that WotC/TSR could seriously benefit from considering. That is what individuals like myself, Daly and others are hoping -- now we just need to get WotC/TSR to *see* our strength so that they can begin the process of consideration. Jenni - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield http://www.jamm.com/jenni/home.html - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry@jamm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 19:31:44 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Galwylin wrote: >Lord BKis1 wrote: >>What would bother me is seeing Mystara on the selves with a AD&D logo on it and a CD inside. That was not progress that was destruction. Mystara is a D&D product to the core. >Mystara's uniqueness can be perserved under AD&D. I'm not crazy about the sets with CDs but if you remember back, TSR thought they were the next big craze. Ravenloft, Planescape, Red Steel, their Intro to AD&D set all had them. They were just adding them to everything (including Mystara) because they thought it would catch on. It didn't but Mystara wasn't singled out to be destroyed. Well, I don't think TSR wanted to destroy any of their settings. 3;)> Besides, I like the CDs for sound effects and mood music during those extra special encounters. I have virtually every sound effect indexed to the track and second, easily called up on my Laptop.. need a sword clang.. zowie, there it is. >>Now the correct approach(I'm sure most people would agree) is to return to the original GAZ format. But if that made sense (talking about sales) they would have never have discontinued it in the first place. The original GAZ format would be good; though I'd rather see it AD&D. What wouldn't make sense about it (sale wise) would be if the GAZ format still expanded the now defunct OD&D game rules. In another message I also made the point there just aren't enough buyers, but if there were buyers, they'd be AD&D buyers.. not AMAZING ENGINE buyers or anything like that. >I think that's the approach they were taking with the boxes. The correct way (IMO) was to introduce the setting as a whole first then comes the Gazetteers. Not substitute the Gazetteers with boxes without an overall setting. Mystara lacks a world veiw as it is seen as many settings on a single world and the contrast are just marked off as 'its fantasy'. I think the K:KoA and G:KoM boxed sets were meant to provide an "overall" setting. At least, as overall as you can get with Mystara. It's very difficult to describe the whole setting in one boxed set. Even the REALMS have boxed sets of Kara-Tur, the Hordes, etc.. -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:50:19 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff >Medievil knights were actually trained to scale walls and swim in chain mail. Guess its back to the gym for me... lol >>Historically though if you fell over wearing platemail the stuff was so heavy you needed help to rise... >>ROB >I have seen this brought up often as myth, but never seen any recorded fact of such a thing. Plate mail is only about 12# heavier than chain, and many modern combatants state that it is less constraining and more comfortable than chain. According to a few history books ive read in my time (The Great Commanders - all sorts of kewl stuff in there, from Alexander the Great, Hannibal, and Erwin Rommel) at the Battle of Agincourt the unhorsed French cavalrymen were suffocated in the mud thanks to the weight of their armour. Maybe thats disputed. I dont know - the information ive got is only as good as the books ive read. Arent we straying from the original topic here, anyway? Ive forgotten what started this off! Oh - elven chain... That original post i sent in was all the accusations levelled at AD+D for being easily powergamed. For the most part, I agree (ive had a brief banter with DM about the steps i take to even the balance between humans and demihumans). I was just illustrating that D+D isnt all that different in that respect, with the Elf class basically being at least as powerful as (if not more powerful than) an AD+D fighter/mage. Sorry if ive started another riot... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:42:01 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? - ----- >I actually have come up with some adaptations of RW movies for my Mystara campaign and i'm planning on writing down an adventure based on action movies that involves... an halfling cook! this adventure will be a crossover of "Die Hard" and Steven Segal's "Trap on.." movies, with the halfling cook (ex member of the Shires Fangs) Stewynn Seagull as main character aiding the PCs.. I know it's crazy, but the crazier the better! ;p >I've also played the D&D version of "Field of Dreams" (titled Ship of Dreams), Evil Dead and planned on "The usual suspects"... >DM Lol. Who hasnt? I'm an Indiana Jones ripoff merchant myself (comes from running Red Steel)... BTW - in this Godzilla vs Earthshaker thing, u could have the Great One turn up as the all-powerful Ghidora... :) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:57:41 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff - ----- ><the ad&d rules option where a mage can commit Prof. Slots. to allow armor.>> *choke* noooooooooo........... Just like DM doesnt like G:KoM, I dont like those dreaded black books.... Aren't mages powerful enough already? Do you not realise what a "mere" (in Mystara) 12th level wizard can do to a Thyatian legion? (Except bits of the Spells and Magic one) Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:09:59 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't ><< TSR screwed over the >OD&D game and the Known World setting with mediocre gaming material and abominable product design (e.g. the CDs). They cannot be trusted to produce something worthwhile.>> >In my opinion, the OD&D game never was destroyed......it evolved. TSR sees certain instances in their books which are hard to follow, believe, or just plain don't make sense. They update and correct these errors in a timely fashion to improve everyone's game and make thier rules easier to understand >and more "roleplayer-friendly". Now, this isn't an AD&D vs OD&D deal, it's just that TSR constantly comes up with new editions and books for the sole purpose of defineing the game better for those that don't just want to know the basics. >Take the Complete Handbooks for instance. Where else can you find more info about your specific favorite race/class? TSR's productions are far from 3rd rate in my thoughts. I'm with Inconu on this one. I like 2nd ed because it has a modular sort of approach (bit like a degree, I suppose!) If you think a class is particularly interesting, you could buy a book that detailed that class in great, well, detail! (bad english!!!!). I dont think that makes 2nd ed too rulesy, because there are only two books that u really need (the PHB and DMG - and u could probably do without the DMG). All the other stuff is just to add detail where the player wants it. (Oh, and to make TSR some cold hard cash on the side). Its not dissimilar to the OD+D gaz series, really - buy what you're interested in. Each gaz seemed to embody a class, and tack on new rules for that class as well (Glantrian mages, Shadowelf shamans, Darokinian merchants, Ethengarian cavalry etc. etc.). Certainly 2nd ed was the result of a lot of 1st edition player feedback to TSR. And 1st ed was just a progression from D+D. Not to say there isnt need for a 3rd ed - after all, some housecleaning is probably in order... ><< The bottom line is they >only care about the bottom line. They don't love the game. I'm darn tired of products that generate Talmudic discussions about continuity errors when the real reason is that the publisher just doesn't care. >> Hmm - continuity errors in Mystara? Probably more likely due to the fact that lots of new writers attacked Mystara in recent years, with their own ideas (I remember the "Is Bellayne English or Japanese" debate - and I recall that the conclusion was that it was originally English, but the new writers changed it...). Bit like parts of the Realms really. Its not the fault of TSR. I think the Red Steel boxes were of middling to good quality - i think the writer of that took some time over it, and genuinely liked the setting he tried to describe. I blame a) bad marketing b) those damn CDs!!!! (they are painful to listen to - and they bump up the price as well, to way above other stuff) c) the lack of stuff they brought out. What put people off buying it around here is the idea that they would buy a few boxes detailing Mystara, for a not inconsequential amount of cash - and then it would be cancelled, leaving them stranded. And they were right. If it wasnt for the fact that I was a diehard and have much old Mystara stuff, I'd probably be running Ravenloft right now. Because I'm lazy, and I like a few boxes the spread around my campaign... (admission of guilt) Rambling on again... Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:21:38 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format >I think level for level, AD&D characters will be more powerful than their D&D cousins. The reason is AD&D only goes to 20th level, whereas D&D goes to 36th level. >-- Stonelight Im with Stonelight on this one. I had a 10M elf once - a very hard character. Dare I even say powergamed (hey, I was young - we were all like that when we were 13)? Not a match for a highlevel AD+D character. Fear the 20th level mage. I recently had a chat with my friend who runs Planescape around here - very much an AD+D man. He was puzzled by the Ethie/Glantri war (dont kill me guys! One point - just one...) as to how the Ethies got through Boldavia, when its guarded by a 19th level necromancer... He cited the Reduced (to 1" tall) Phantom Steeded (so a very fast 1" tall guy) Stoneskinned Mind Blanked necromancer chucking Death Spells undetectably - and killing the entire army with them... I dont think a high level D+D mage is quite as able to get away with stuff like that. Sure - much damage with his own Death Spell - but the smaller spell list available definitely has major repercussions on power. Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:36:45 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Almanac/Glantri >I just finished reading Almanac and I must say I was impressed. It was so much better than I could even imagine. So I also have one question for all Glantri-enthuasists to ponder. >Who you think would be next high judge after Jherek is dead. I think there are not very much possibilities. Intriguing stuff! >IMO Lan-Syn is out of the question, because others want to limit House of Singhabads power. >Harald for obvious reasons is not a candidate. Kol or Dolores/Synn migth want that job, but they wouln't get any support. Brannart/Angus can't also promote himself. Jaggar's status as a prince is in danger, so he wouldn't get any support. >So who we have left. We have both elves, but I don't think that they could be chosen. Juliana is I think too young to be chosen. Isidore or Malachie might come in question, but do either one get enough support. >IMO logical choise would be Urmahid, but electing him makes an other problem: who is the next chancellor. Isnt Urmahids principality toast after the invasion? That might stand against him. But I suppose he would make a good replacement for Jherek - after all, he was practically a carbon copy... (Jherek was so cool!!! It sucks that he died - but, then, all the Princes are cool. I suppose if one HAD to go, I would have agonised, and gone for Jherek. Or more likely Urmahid...) >My favourite for judge is Morphail. I think this would open whole lot of gaming possibilities for behind door politics. Think about it nosferatu/vampire as high judge and leader of police. It would be a perfect job for Morphail. He as high judge sits in his tower and makes interrogations in night and is never seen in daylight. Hmm. Cool for adventuring policies, but i think it would be somewhat contrived (maybe the contrivance itself could be cause for an adventure?) The job is supposed to be given to someone who is neutral, and Beyond Reproach. I think Morphail most definitely does not fit the bill here! He's responsible for the deaths of many in the Glantrian Grand Army - and i'm sure some of the other Princes suspect this (and half of them know hes a Chaotic Evil vampire). Harald actually is a candidate, IMHO, just for being neutral. Assuming he would accept the position, and assuming the other princes would allow him to gain a virtual monopoly on the Council of Princes. heh - just had a thought about Harald. And I quote, "Palpatine, an unassuming senator, began his rise to power during this time of social injustice and rampant corruption. Palpatine was self-effacing and, despite showing a record of promise, was mostly ineffective in the Senate. His plodding, methodical way seemed at odds with the mercurial shifts of power and agendas which were the reality of the collapsing Senate... The senator rose slowly, hampered by an apparent lack of ambition. His only notable success was a remarkable absence of enemies, attributed as much to his weakness within the Senate as to his unimposing personality. But it was all a ruse, for Palpatine was more than he appeared to be. Much more... And the last remnants of the Old Republic were swept away when Palpatine disbanded the Senate - for the duration of the emergency..." A pity Haralds alignment is listed as "neutral good"... :) I'm cracking up too much to have a sane conversation... Maybe i'll continue with my thoughts later... Sorry Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:03:07 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: Re(2): [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? >12 Monkeys - This will be epic! Alphatin Mages try to save the Island by using Chronomancy. Cool Huh. IMC it is 1006 and I think the Island will sink, but will not go to HW. The crazy new emperor Zandor and his council (the scientists) send what is left back in time to save the Island. In the end I want the Island to just 'show up' where is was in the year 102?. The Godfather - I just love the movies. I want to turn one, two or all the Darokin merchant families into a darker Darokin Mob like families. I dont know if it will work but I am going to put time into it one day. (this might be what I do for the Mystara Writers Group) We will see 12 monkeys sounds wild!!!!!!!! Sadly I have not seen the film, ive only heard a (very) little about it. Could you elucidate? Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #357 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 00:53:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #358 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 398c9424ad5177e4dd3ccd96e8b82ba0 mystara-digest Friday, May 29 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 358 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please read and respond! [MYSTARA] - Newsgroup Re: [MYSTARA] - Denagoth and Wendar Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please read and respond! [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please DO-orignally MystaraRising! Please don't [MYSTARA] - MISC: SC Net Logo FAQ and Update Re: Re(2): [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please read and respond! Re: [MYSTARA] - Illithids and Kopru [MYSTARA] - "You wrote" [MYSTARA] - Movies Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please DO-orignally MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - "You wrote" Re: [MYSTARA] - Illithids and Kopru Re: [MYSTARA] - Illithids and Kopru Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Foresters Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Re: [MYSTARA] - Foresters Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format Re: Re(2): [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 20:07:18 EDT From: Inconu@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please read and respond! << If everyone posts on the TSR Online message boards like Bruce has suggested... maybe we can show them we're bigger than they think, but if we only show them we're 200-some people... if we ARE only 200-some people, it's not an economic asset for them to publish for. -- Stonelight >> ....took the words right out of my mouth. Thanks for saving me from writing a 2 page post Stonelight. - -Inconu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 19:34:45 -0500 From: "Nick Vogel" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Newsgroup Is there a newsgroup out there dedicated to Mystara yet? Would anyone be interested in one if there was one? Just curious :) Nick Vogel mearlus@globaldialog.com "But Shalafi, there is not much left if you turn down the world. -Dalamar to Raistlin" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:01:40 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Denagoth and Wendar >Hi! >Just for the sake of curiosity, after you read the events in the timeline and the entries for Wendar and Denagoth, what's your impression about the facts going on there? >Do you think the elves will be able to stand against the Shadowlord? Do you think Wendar is on the verge of chaos? Do you think if Alfheimers are able to get back to Canolbarth the Elven Crusade in Denagoth will end? >Who do you think is behind the events in Wendar & Denagore? Do you think the following is a right comparison: Denagoth = Moria? >Gimme feedback, okay? ;) >DM The Shadowlord is Damn Hard. I reckon he's a bit of a Sauron clone at heart (anyone who lives in places like Gereth Minar and Drax Tallen owes something to the Lord of the Rings). I think Denagoth is more Mordor than Moria though, IMHO. But if you look at the PWAs listings for the population of Wendar it is BIG. We arent talking about some little tiny elven village in the pine trees here... Its somewhere between Glantri and Ethengar in population, and with all those Alfheim clanmasters its not exactly short of hardnuts. I expect a Titanic (couldnt resist, with all this movie stuff flying around) fight. But its probably a job for adventurers - a rehash of the Saga of the Shadowlord, a truly brilliant adventure? But then again, Minas Tirith and Gondor were very powerful. But they were Dust in the Wind before Mordor. (adventurers. again - damn halflings!) As for the chaos thing... I think Wendar must always have been on the unstable side, as its population is 50% human and 50% elven. So yes! Who's behind it all? An Immortal, of course :)... Arik, maybe? (Im running a campaign based around Arik trying to free the Carnifex - and the Old Ones (Cthulu evil guys IMC)). Cheerz ROB *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 20:28:10 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't Derek Harmon wrote: >Well, I don't think TSR wanted to destroy any of their settings. 3;)> Hey! That was my point, you.. you.. point snatcher! >I think the K:KoA and G:KoM boxed sets were meant to provide an "overall" setting. At least, as overall as you can get with Mystara. It's very difficult to describe the whole setting in one boxed set. Even the REALMS have boxed sets of Kara-Tur, the Hordes, etc.. Well, I'm not sure about that. I think you can get a little more general with the setting. It was only dealing with the nations of the Known World. Red Steel was covering the Savage Coast and the rest hasn't been developed yet. Mystara was the only setting I've seen to ever give the suppliments before the campaign setting. The closest I can think of is Dragonlance but it was introduced as modules where you discovered the setting as you played. Though the Realms did have box set for different areas, those aren't the Heartlands where most of the action takes place and were introduced in a campaign setting. As Mystara stands now in AD&D it consists of Karameikos and Glantri and some other countries that got a paragraph. They didn't even tell what lays between the two beyond showing it on a map. Mystara may be hard to give an overall look at but not impossible. - -- This has been a Galwylin(c) Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:30:17 -0400 From: Derek Harmon Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please read and respond! Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: >Well, StoneLight, you have a few good points there -- only 200 interested individuals does not an economic force make. However, 200 members on a mailing list is probably a pretty good statistical sign that there is a : >indivudals who are involved with it. The others may love it just as much, but spend their 'spare' time with other persuits and are thus not as vocal. II've heard the number '5%' bandied about by some of the folks in marketing where I work, which would suggest taking our 200+ and multiplying by 20 -- 4000+. And that's 4000+ who are seriously interested in a world that is otherwise 'dead' in the realms of RPGs -- which doesn't seem to bad to me. I agree with that number. I was seriously interested in Mystara LONG BEFORE I joined this mailing list. 3;)> In fact, a couple years ago when I heard MML existed, I went to the web site, but the link to the page ex- plaining how to subscribe didn't work. So I don't doubt that there are several times the number of people on the List who are on the Internet, interested in Mystara but don't know about the MML. And there are a couple times that number who aren't even on the Inter- net who are interested in Mystara. There probably are 10's of thousands out there who had bought some Mystara product; though I think there are only a couple thousand who own virtually every Mystara product. >'Tens of Thousands' is perhaps what any RPG company would ultimately hope to gain in loyal customrs, but do remember that WotC/TSR probably has that 'Tens of Thousands' when scattered across all the different worlds and They should have that.. I heard a statistic in the late 80's, it was in a DRAGON Forum article and I believe it was related to suicide rate research (ie, showing the %age of D&D players commiting suicide was less than the %age of the general population commiting suicide -- how cheerful, I know). Anyway, that number was 3 MILLION "D&D" players worldwide. Which only goes to show, everybody knows somebody who plays 'that' game. I don't entirely trust the distinction that may've been made between D&D and AD&D in that research, and actually a DRAGON Forum article is hardly a lofty scholarly publication. But that number was probably a reasonable extrapolation, at least in the late 80's. TSR's financial woes would lead me to believe that number has gone down some since then, maybe only 2 million. I mean, it's not like TSR runs cool TV commercials like Coke and Pepsi do. 3;)> It's surprising people even find out about D&D, they have to be 'referred' almost, it's a slow way to grow your market. That's either promising, in the number of people who may be interested in new Mystara products, or depressing, in the number of people who weren't interested in Mystara products when they were produced. -- Stonelight *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 20:53:07 -0500 From: "Kevin Melby" Subject: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please DO-orignally MystaraRising! Please don't Lord BKis1 wrote: >>What would bother me is seeing Mystara on the selves with a AD&D logo on it >>and a CD inside. That was not progress that was destruction. Mystara is a >>D&D product to the core. I have to agree with you on the CD's, but the idea of changing over the Mystara campaing world to AD&D is not a bad idea. When TSR decided to make the change over, they had finally figured out that Mystara was a well made world, and was deserving of a chance for new life. They killed it's chance at rebirth by adding in the CD's (which, except for the few that had just sound effects and music, were really bad. The stories that were on the CD were very condescending if you ask me.) Now I did read another post, but lost the message, about starting out with an overall view of Mystara, and then a GAZ style update. I would have to agree with that idea, because all the other worlds do have an overview of what is going on where (like with the Forgotten Realms Campaing boxed set). It doesn't have to encompass all of the world, just the area that most people start out with, the western continent (forgive me if I do not know the proper terminology, because I haven't been on the mailing list very long). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 19:20:00 +0000 From: Elton Robb Subject: [MYSTARA] - MISC: SC Net Logo FAQ and Update Everyone, Here is a "FAQ" on the contest as it stands. SC Net Logo Q and A. Q. Which one of us is going to host the site? A. It looks like Steven Winston wishes to host the site. Don't worry, Steve, you and Michael can both host a web site for the net logos. Depending on how much space you both have, one can take most of the logos than the other. Q. Has anyone echoed this to the Mystara List? A. Yes. From the beginning, I have been posting updates about the Contest on the Mystara listserve. Q. What is involved in judging? A. It is an objective judging. The person involved is normally impartial to the logos. A contest like this, if I were to set the rules, would have been normally subjective (Star Search style). But Sean Reynolds of WotC-TSR says other wise. A judge must be able to look at all the logos to see what they have to offer. Q. What is an Iron Crown Enterprises Representative doing holding a contest like this? A. I like AD&D, and I have respect for all of TSR's employees. To my mind, they make some of the best gaming products available out there. And I like the Savage Coast Campaign. But, to tell you the truth, I enjoy Rolemaster and Rolemaster: the Standard System better than AD&D 2. I'm just that kind of person. That is why I am a Knight of the Iron Crown (ICE Representative). Update: Now we come to the update! Paul Sheppard says that he is willing to judge the contest. Both Steven Winston and Michael Morris has expressed willingness to host the net logos. Any artist willing to submit their SC Net Logos do it should visit Steven Winston's page for the rules and where to submit to at: http://www.demiplane.net/savagecoast.html. Or to Michael Morris, who may send me his e-mail address so I can post it to this FAQ. And to Sean Reynolds, this FAQ and Update is the latest. Anymore questions, Sean and anyone else, you can ask me directly. - Elton Robb Knight of the Iron Crown *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:24:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: Re(2): [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? >enough so the players dont know till the end. The only problem is that most never seem to end like the movie. Most of the campaigns I ran from movies titles changed half way through the movie. (the players never knew the campaign was from a movie because it changed so much) Never thought of using movies for a campaign before. Just thinking through some good flicks, I came up with a few ideas to add to your list - Heart and Souls. The few times I've seen ghosts with unfulfilled pasts in RPGs, it's been the complex quest-type goal. Heart and Souls offers some other goals (more likely IMO too - wanting to find out what happens to their children or seeking to amend a petty theft done years ago) for ghosts that could easily be worked into a campaign. Midnight Run (as you can already tell, I'm a Grodin fan). Just turn the FBI agents into Thyatian soldiers and the mafia folks into a thief's guild and you have a good mission for the players, wherein they must defend someone and avoid conflict rather than seek to cause damage or create conflict. I assume there must be bounty hunter organizations in some of the Mystaran nations. Princess Bride. A bit of changing has to be done to the plot, but I see it as enfolding like this - Prince hires the PCs to look for his 'kidnapped' bride, allowing the PCs to find out along the way that it was all just a ploy by the cold-hearted royal and also finding out that the fiancee does not love him, but rather someone lost to her years ago (leading into another quest to find him). Some tinkering, but I think it could all work out. "Football combines the two worst things about America: it is violence punctuated by committee meetings." -- George Will *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:34:27 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please read and respond! At 06:35 PM 5/28/98 -0400, you wrote: >Daly wrote: (over 200 on the list, over 40 on the petition, almost 20 in ttthe Mystaran writers) who are interested in Mystara that we are an economic asset...or would be at least... >Over 200 an economic asset? Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 00:53:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-mystara-l@ using -f From: (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Subject: mystara-digest V1997 #358 Reply-To: mystara@mpgn.com X-UIDL: 398c9424ad5177e4dd3ccd96e8b82ba0 Before you go too overboard in you response, let me clarify what I mean... 200 IS a significant number when it is the number of people on a list devoted to a discontinued setting. I have no doubts there are others out there (heck I only recently signed on!) who love Mystara and who do not know of the list or perhaps don't even realize it is Mystara that they love (those who have built campaigns around X1 without having any later material). No, TSR would not put out material if they stood to gain only 200 people. But we are 200 definites that represent a much large possibility... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:52:57 EDT From: DuncanTKD@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Illithids and Kopru In a message dated 98-05-28 15:31:05 EDT, George Valencia writes: << They May be Unique as the book describes, but Maybe a mutations like a exposure to the Radiance long ago might have cause a certain Illithid to spawn the Kopru >> Or maybe it is the other way around and the Kopru spawned the Illithid. <> Could their charm person ability be all that is left of their Psionic/magical powers? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:55:55 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - "You wrote" In a message dated 98-05-27 09:11:32 EDT, you write: >At 02:08 AM 5/27/98 EDT, you wrote: See? You didn't identify me, and I didn't identify you. Please set up your mailer to name the person you are replying to -- it is very annoying to see "You wrote" in a submission to the mailing list -- for most readers, you are telling an outright lie when you say that. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:03:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Savoie Subject: [MYSTARA] - Movies >Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 15:31:34 -0400 >From: Daly >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please read and respond! >But then why did the Commodore 64 die? It was a superior machine to anything else on the market. But you know what? Commodore was absolutely stupid in the marketing. They were even warned of the impending doom. But now they are as the dodo... A jacked up Commodore 128, then 256, then 512, then 1,024, then a Commodore Pentium would have been cool. And Bill Gates would have been a mere employee of somewhere, no one wanting to touch his DOS. "$" rules. >Same with Beta video machines. Why did VCRs win out when I hear the Betas were superior? Because of marketing... The format is called VHS; a VCR is any video-cassette recorder. It didn't matter to the corporation; Matsushita invented both formats! The Betamax tape supposedly had superior recording qualities, but its tape length for time was a little shorter, wasn't it? - ------- >Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:42:01 +0100 >From: "Rob" >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? >movies that involves... an halfling cook! this adventure will be a crossover of "Die Hard" and Steven Segal's "Trap on.." movies, with the halfling cook (ex member of the Shires Fangs) Stewynn Seagull as main You mean the UNDER SIEGE movies. There should be room for a character named Sailbad the Sinner in it. Just BECAUSE. :-) - ---Pierre Savoie (ab966@torfree.net) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:26:27 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please DO-orignally MystaraRising! Please don't Kevin Melby wrote: >Now I did read another post, but lost the message, about starting out with an overall view of Mystara, and then a GAZ style update. I would have to agree with that idea, because all the other worlds do have an overview of what is going on where (like with the Forgotten Realms Campaing boxed set). It doesn't have to encompass all of the world, just the area that most people start out with, the western continent (forgive me if I do not know the proper terminology, because I haven't been on the mailing list very long). Welcome to the club! You stated it well and you agreed with me. That's a very good thing ;D - -- This has been a Galwylin(c) Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:29:56 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - "You wrote" Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 98-05-27 09:11:32 EDT, you write: >>At 02:08 AM 5/27/98 EDT, you wrote: >See? You didn't identify me, and I didn't identify you. Please set up your mailer to name the person you are replying to -- it is very annoying to see "You wrote" in a submission to the mailing list -- for most readers, you are telling an outright lie when you say that. Umm.. pot calling the kettle black? - -- This has been a Galwylin(c) Production galwylin@airnet.net (ICQ #6755972) http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ The Karameikan School of Magecraft http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2336/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 00:19:56 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Illithids and Kopru In a message dated 98-05-28 15:31:05 EDT, mktriton@hotmail.com writes: >They May be Unique as the book describes, but Maybe a mutations like a eexposure to the Radiance long ago might have cause a certain Illithid to spawn the Kopru. Or perhaps vice versa -- the Kopru are more "normal" creatures in that they do not have to kill and eat an intelligent creature every month the way the Illithids do. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 00:19:57 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Illithids and Kopru In a message dated 98-05-28 15:31:05 EDT, mktriton@hotmail.com writes: >Some of the Difference between these creature are that the Kopru is not kknown to possess Psionics, AFAIK, or even Happen to have an ability to use Magic. Maybe some of you might prove me wrong. Kopru do possess that "domination" ability that allows them to control others. And they do have a limited ability to become shamans (priests) or wokani (wizards). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 00:20:04 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't In a message dated 98-05-28 22:46:41 EDT, galwylin@airnet.net writes: >Mystara may be hard to >give an overall look at but not impossible. It might have worked out better if they had gotten around to producing that boxed set for Darokin -- Darokin, after all, is a centrally located nation that is on moderately good terms with all of its neighbors except the Broken Lands and Hule (which wasn't their neighber at all until they took over Sind). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 00:19:54 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Foresters In a message dated 98-05-28 14:54:10 EDT, dolsen@wesleyan.edu writes: >Of course this is with D&D rules instead of AD&D. So my theory is that tthe immortals themselves, particulary Ilsundal, are responsible for allowing spellcasting while wearing armor and that the construction of the armor or the the age of the individual are irrelevant. Thoughts? The idea that a Fighter/Mage (which is basically what a Forester is) cannot cast spells while wearing armor is unique to 2nd edition AD&D - -- that rule does not exist in 1st edition AD&D or in any edition of D&D. Of course I am inclined to make chain mail (of any kind) the heaviest armor that permits spellcasting -- somehow the image of an Elf casting spells while wearing plate mail doesn't work for me, and a limitation of that sort would explain the Elven preference for chain mail above all other types of armor. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 00:24:11 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't On Thu, 28 May 1998, Lord BKis1 wrote: >areas if they plan to do that again. I suspect a renewed Mystara line would be a AD&D world with some changes. Really not preserving it's uniqueness at all. Darn right there, unfortunately. I wonder if they'd scrap the whole idea of the immortals altogether, just calling them gods. (AD&D gods are weak excuses for immortals IMHO.) This would facilitate the entrance of mystara as just another AD&D stock world, like Greyhawk, or What-not. >the original GAZ format. But if that made sense (talking about sales) they would have never have discontinued it in the first place. Did they discontinue the Gaz's because of poor sales, or was it becaus they described everything they wanted too? If I remember correctly, there were no vaporware gaz's, so that implies that they were finished with the product line after Atruaghin. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 00:29:00 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't On Thu, 28 May 1998, Galwylin wrote: >an overall setting. Mystara lacks a world veiw as it is seen as many settings on a single world and the contrast are just marked off as 'its fantasy'. Sadly, though, this is what makes Mystara great. The sheer diversity in cultures in one small corner of the world is one of the unique and wonderful aspects of Mystara. Because of culture and beleif conflict, Mystara is ever changing, not like the bland staidness of Forgettable Realms. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 00:39:18 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MystaraRising! Please don't On Thu, 28 May 1998, Derek Harmon wrote: >The original GAZ format would be good; though I'd rather see it AD&D. BUT include a handy table at the end of every set that includes rules to transform it to D&D rules. There is far too much invested in the D&D rules system to completely drop it like a stone, and there are a lot of hard core D&D'ers out there who refuse to play AD&D. Max IV - One of those rabid fanatics. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:41:53 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Foresters >The idea that a Fighter/Mage (which is basically what a Forester is) cannot cast spells while wearing armor is unique to 2nd edition AD&D -- that rule does not exist in 1st edition AD&D or in any edition of D&D. Pg. 19 1st edition Player's Handbook on Table II: Armor and weapons permitted. Armor: none Shield: none Weapons: dagger, dart, staff Sorry, but it is an AD&D ruling, not just 2nd edition. Not that I agree with it, but... Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 00:45:11 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reviving D&D format On Thu, 28 May 1998, Rob wrote: >I dont think a high level D+D mage is quite as able to get away with stuff like that. Sure - much damage with his own Death Spell - but the smaller spell list available definitely has major repercussions on power. I think this is a D&D balance issue. Mystara is one of the most magically infused planets on the Prime, magic weapons can practically be bought at stores, and mages are commonplace. Think of placing Alphatia off the coast of The Forgotten Realms, what would happen there? I'd suspect that the entire planet would be Alphatian within a few years. (Considering all the D&D mages became AD&D mages with appropriate spells) I guess what I'm saying is that the D&D rules do balance out the power of the classes relatively well. Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 00:52:40 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Re(2): [MYSTARA] - Movie stuff for Mystara??? On Thu, 28 May 1998, Mischa E Gelman wrote: >Princess Bride. A bit of changing has to be done to the plot, but I see it as enfolding like this - Prince hires the PCs to look for his 'kidnapped' bride, allowing the PCs to find out along the way that it was all just a ploy by the cold-hearted royal and also finding out that the fiancee does not love him, but rather someone lost to her years ago (leading into another quest to find him). Some tinkering, but I think it could all work out. But then the PC's find out that the lost love no longer loves her, so the PCs decide to spare the princess pain by telling her that they never found him. but the princess is whiny, and refuses to leave the PCs alone until they do, which leads to a geas put on the guy by the party M-U, which promptly wears off in a year or two.. *giggle* Max IV *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #358 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.