mystara-digest Monday, September 28 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 655 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Council Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical Ability: Wishes and YOU. [MYSTARA] - [OFF TOPIC] resend - IT'S A BOY!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology & WotI? Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:Short years (was: - Karameikos) Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods Re: [MYSTARA] - [OFF TOPIC] IT'S A BOY!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos RE: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods---long [MYSTARA] - List working? [MYSTARA] - Strange findings... Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia against US/UK Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia against the Multiverse! Re: [MYSTARA] - [OFF TOPIC] IT'S A BOY!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:11:26 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Council After two long months, I have received a copy of WotI (quite cheap for an OOP item) and I have anxiously perused it all and, in the chronology chapter, found a couple of quotations which might be interesting for the presente thread: 1) p. 89: ...[Zandor] convenes the the Thousand Wizards of Alphatia... 2) p. 90: The next day "the Thousand Wizards" teleport to the skies over Glantri... The Wrath of the Immortals texts puts the term "Thousand Wizards" between inverted commas itself, so it leaves quite clear that it is just a traditional denomination which does not imply a literal number. BTW, just like the Roman Senate, it had an ideal number fixed by the original (and partly legendary) tribes which founded Rome, but, as centuries passed and the Empire changed, it grew bigger or smaller in order to accomodate itself to the reality of the Empire´s nobility. Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 12:19:51 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical Ability: Wishes and YOU. >> True. In the Palladium System, one feature I really like is the >>Physical Skill selection: if you take a physical skill, such as boxing, >>gymnastics, wrestling, et c., your physical attributes, such as >>strength, speed, constitution (of course, Palladium uses different >>names) increase (note: reagrdless of anything else, always take Boxing; >>you get an extra attack as well as a bunch of extra hit points/SDC). I >>think D&D should have more skills like that; I can recall one similar: >>Muscle gives you a bonus to bend bars/lift gates. > >Or there is the Star Wars RPG system where you get a bunch of 'character >points' after an adventure which can be used to raise attributes or skills Well, cavaliers could train in 1st edition i believe (or maybe its just a house rule) but I think that is one of the best examples of rampant powergaming i have ever seen. OTOH, using the D+D rules it wouldnt be so bad. Strength 18/00 in AD+D makes you an obscenely powerful killing machine, but strength 18 in D+D (or even 30) isnt so bad. Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 10:32:09 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [OFF TOPIC] resend - IT'S A BOY!!! Ooooops! I forgot to include his name the first time!!! - ------ Well, sorry for the delay, but I have been very, very busy learning to be a new mom! Yes, my little one was born on Monday, September 21st at 8:31am and weighed in at 6lbs, 3oz (approx. 2610g). His name is Nathan Stafford Merrifield. I've just finally had a chance to do more than simply download my email without reading it and wanted to share the news with those I said I would. Don't know when I'll have time again to deal with email etc., and I've just switched to the MML digest for now and you might not hear much from me over the next few weeks, but I'll still be around for a while -- just a bit more of a lurker than usual ;-) Talk to you all later! Jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things I *like*!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 21:21:40 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology & WotI? >Then again it could be the immortal `LUDD` who has been given the job of >ensuring that there is not another great rain of fire. Whenever a group >reaches a sufficiently high tech ability his followers, the Luddites, >are activbated and sent on a S/D mission. This has some real potential: we've seen that the ranking Immortals are at best ambivalent on anything that threatens magic, or uses technology (see WotI), and in IM3, Mazikeen is determined not to let technology develop on Mystara after seeing what happened in Paranoia/ The Warren (I personally feel Paranoia would be a cool place to live, but that's me). It's entirely conceivable that there is a whole faction of mages devoted to the suppression of high technology, and this could explain why "real" (operating under "normal" physics and reproducable in the RW) technology hasn't progressed beyond pre-printing press Europe sans gunpowder for the past several millenia. On a related thread, the invasion of a tech world, it seems logical that such an invasion is the very raison d'ete for the Council of Intrusion, and I imagine five Hierarchs can neutralize any mortal invasion fairly quickly (even under the Rifts-influenced rules I use, where high tech, as in rail guns and lasers, would make the invaders effectively Exalted-class). "In the beginning, there was darkness, but before there was darkness, there was Frog" - St. Stephen Nicholas Hudson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 15:09:32 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:Short years (was: - Karameikos) Sharon said: >So either Mystaran minutes -- and, by extension, Mystaran days -- are the >same length as Earth's, or Mystarans are a bit slower-moving than other >oD&D/AD&D characters. (Of course, the 120' movement rate for humans is >just a "guesstimate" on the part of the game designers; people in real life >move faster or slower than this, depending on circumstances.) IIRC, the Gaz series and the PWAs said the a Mystaran year is 336 days long (12 months of 28 days each), so IMO the Mystaran year *is* shorter than an Earth year - not that this is a big deal, anyway. As for movement rates, sure, moving 120' in ten minutes is kinda slow, but them we're assuming that, as adventurers, the PCs are carefully moving down corridors, looking around corners, testing the floor for pressure plates, and pausing now and then to listen. This makes that other (often-englected) rule more sensible, that after every 5 turns of movement in a dungeon/underground setting, the PCs must rest for one turn, otherwise they suffer fatigue penalties. Being that careful and tense wears down a person. The rules more than make up for this in terms of combat and running speeds, and daily travel rates. A moderately encumbered person (at 90/30/90 movement rate), could move 30 feet in ten seconds in a combat, because he/she will be feinting, dodging a bit, and otherwise shuffling around while hacking someone else to bits. AFAIK, no one just stands totally still and slices everyone around them (unless they're movie stars, but these folks don't exist in reality) - ;-). Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:49:47 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods On Thu, 24 Sep 1998, Galwylin wrote: > be able to maintain its individuality regardless of the rule system it > uses. Besides, I feel that Mystara has 'copied' too much of our world. > Bringing the Immortals up to godhood is only the beginning of my heresy ;> To me, unfortunately, D&D and Mystara go hand in hand, at least as far as TSR games go. I would have no problem porting over D&D to Palladium, but to AD&D? Well, lets just say that I have a VERY bad opinion on that system. > always have. Alphatia wasn't the first to recieve their 'infallible' > wisdom. Removing Immortals from demi-humans only distiguishes demi-humans > from humans in my mind. Something that no setting has made attempts at. But it also removes the fact that demi-humans are merely *SUBRACES* of humans, created after them. Unlike, say, in the complete book of Elves, where they are portrayed as Xenophobic super-beings who are so powerful that they don't even die. > As gnomes and elves were created by the gods in every other setting. Where > is the individuality now? The difference is that Gods have always existed. There is a time on Mystara where Gnomes didn't exist. There is a time where Dwarves didn't exist. I think you're missing the point. To call someone Immortal makes them seem godlike, but you know they were once a Mortal. To call someone a "GOD" is to imply that they have always been there, unchanging. AD&D Gods fight personal battles (godswar anyone?) D&D Immortals fight battles through Strokes. > extension of the world itself, created from it. The spirits that sheltered > them in the beginning were replaced by Immortals. I will correct that. Ech. That's so AD&D sounding. > How is the view of Immortals vs demipowers different? Both rise from > mortal beings into immortality. Well, simply put, I hate seeing ANY Mystara thing translated to AD&D. In my copies of PWA3 and JA, and the net-books, I translated everything to D&D. I guess you would have had to have played as your, ONLY TSR product, D&D nearly exclusively for over 10 years to see why, and I don't expect anyone to share my opinions on this, neither will I force them on anyone. > Wait till you hear the rest. You might want to assign worse sin to > something else :) I just might. :) - Taking out the witch-duck-scale. > None taken. But as I said, I was looking for feedback. Not permission :) Well, I don't care what you do. But I retain the right to be offended ;) Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 20:05:20 -0400 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [OFF TOPIC] IT'S A BOY!!! At 10:08 AM 9/26/98 -0700, you wrote: > Well, sorry for the delay, but I have been very, very busy learning to be >a new mom! > > Yes, my little one was born on Monday, September 21st at 8:31am and >weighed in at 6lbs, 3oz (approx. 2610g). > But now, you must Save Vrs Cuteness or go "Awwwwww.." for 1d6 rounds. :) Beyowulf - Jedi Merchant Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- |/ "A wise mercenary picks his battles carefully" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 05:29:05 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods At 08:35 PM 9/24/98 -0500, Jennifer Favia Guerra wrote: > >Hey, you can take this with a grain of salt if you like, as it's coming >from an Uber-heretic :-)--after all, I've screwed with canon so much on >the subject of Immortals and gods that you probably wouldn't recognize >much of it! But I say go for it--I enjoyed the post, personally, and we >both (Ariel and I--why have two subscriptions when you can share?:-) >agreed with most of your sentiments. I disagree about not having >demihuman deities (actually, I've toyed with the idea of having at least >the elves come from another world, a la CBoE)...but I think you should >keep on keepin' on. If everyone else thinks it's off topic (having so >much to do with AD&D), you can write me personally at the below address. Thanks, Jenn!! I'm going to address why I've chosen not to have demihuman Immortals in another post. So far, elves and dwarves have been the easiest to tie into what I'm going for but halflings for some reason seem to be a bigger problem. This will be the first time in years that I've created something of this scale for Mystara ::thinking back to the days when a map was all I had::. Since TSR has seen fit to cancel the setting, I figured I'd turn it into more of a homegrown type. This has been a Galwylin(r) Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 06:06:52 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods At 10:29 AM 9/25/98 +0200, Agathokles wrote: > >As an AD&D-Mystaran, I am quite sympathetic on the idea of Immortals as >gods (BTW, it's what I'm doing IMC). I knew there were some out there! :) >However, I have a couple of questions for you. >1)On Nyx: why did you set her as CE/N? I would say she's a LE power, which >gives account for her fondness of undead but also of her attitude toward >her followers (anshurian manscorpions, for example). Actually, I had planned to drop Nyx completely. She seemed not evil enough to balance out the pantheon. Anshar is actually a Babylonian power that I've imported (as I have a Celtic, Egyptian, Finnish, Japanese, and another Norse power). But I'd like to keep as many of the original Immortals (or at least their names for alias) as possible, so Nyx maybe a neutral aspect of Anshar since I still don't consider her evil (though I question her hobbies :) I'm doing some more research into how to go about that. >2)On demihuman gods: would you let a demihuman reach Immortality/godhood? What happened to the demihuman Immortals really has a lot to do with the Player's Option: Spells & Magic book. (I figured if your going to be a heretic, go all out). In it, there is a class called shamans that recieve their powers from spirits of the dead, animal spirits, and spirits of nature (land, air, water). When I was reading that section, I thought it would be ideal for use of making elves different from human priests. The history of the elves had said that they were once sheltered by the spirits of the forest (IIRC). The class is for humans but since you can design your own priesthoods with the rules in that book, I've chosen to do a shaman type priest for the elves. Dwarves will be more like elemental priests. In a way, I am having Immortals for demihumans only instead of existing on a different plane, once an elf dies, he returns to the earth and can be called on as one of the spirits. I think this gives a better tie to nature of which I think elves are born from. Does that make sense? It is likely that Ilsundal and Atzanteotl will be joining the pantheon I've been working on though not as elven patrons. But I may keep their origins that they were once elves that have broken away from the natural elven faith. I know Atzanteotl fits perfectly with that. While I'm on the subject of elves, if you're familiar with perservers (like from Dark Sun), that will be the way elven wizardry magic functions. They draw it from the life of the world. And human wizards and elven wizards won't be able to copy from each other though spells will be similiar. They've also set up a new magic sphere in PO:S&M called Universal Magic that all elves will have access to. It includes things like cantrip, comprehend languages, detect magic, etc. Nothing damaging but basic stuff all wizards should have access to and that helps keeps elves as a very magical race that AD&D doesn't normally provide. Dwarves, as I said before, will be more like elemental clerics in their magic. I'm trying to keep with the idea, like the elves, they were born from the world. Where the elves have a more spiritual connection to it, dwarves will have a more material connection so their magic will express itself along the lines of the elements (air, earth, fire, and water). This has been a Galwylin(r) Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:46:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos Actually, the shorter year/longer days thing is fascinating, but I think that it would add an unnecessary complication to the game. I take the statement of NPC ages in material as IC references--that is, if Joshuann Gallidox, for example. says that Gabronius Torion is 14, I take that as meaning 14 Mystaran years--no conversion. The same goes with Inches, feet, miles, whatever--those are all Mystaran feet, etc...No need to make ourselves nuts with endless conversions. Jenn valerya@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 20:55:17 -0500 From: Muaadeeb Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods---long Greetings List, This is the first time posting to the list, as I have just joined the group today. Well met all and hello. On the subject of Immortals and AD&D. I would like to begin by saying that I have been playing the game for 18 years and 6 of those years were focused on the CM 'Test of the Warlords' and advanced modules. I actually played 27 years of game time with my players in those years. I loved the traditional D&D, but when AD&D came out in a misnomer I bought the system thinking that AD&D was the next 'box set' for the game. Boy was I wrong. I upgraded my game to stay current with the times. I still use all the flair of the original D&D high fantasy but with the specialized rules of the second edition rules. For the Gods, (the topic of this post), I choose to think of them all as immortals. I have run into a few problem areas in regard to the D&D Immortal stats going all the way up to 100 versus the AD&D system were 25 is max. But besides this things go well. Avatars simply become immortal forms that are created with more power than a mortal identity. I feel that in my campaign, changing the perspective from all powerful AD&D Gods to D&D converted immortals works rather nicely. I call them gods instead of Immortals. Immortals refer to themselves as immortals though. As for the conflict between the 5 sphere's it still does exist but it's not public knowledge or domain. Mortals, AKA, most players see the world as clashing forces and differing ethos. Most of the players in my current group are unaware that the gods, (immortals) even exist beyond the standard sense that priests pray to them for spells. I find this very exciting and exhilarating. My current campaign, has just returned to Mystra at long last. The current game has been playing for 3 years and one of the players is an immortal, with an assumed mortal identity. None of the other players are aware of the situation in game or out of game. I find that the old rule that "gods do not interfere in the affairs of mortal' very appealing and workable. (they can though as long as they don't get caught). I guess what I am trying to say is that for me, I felt I had to keep up to date with the game changes while still keeping what I like. The known world to me was one of the greatest inventions and I am happy that even though the world is dead, here in my city it is very much alive and breathing. My games all run on a synchronous time scale. 27 years in the original game, plus 2 years in the current campaign. That makes 29 years + of rich history and detailed npcs and flare. Regardless if it's AD&D vs. D&D, Gods vs. Immortals, the systems both work and they enrich what they come into contact with. I hope others feel as I do. Muaadeeb http://www.comic.net/users/muaadeeb/Nightfalls.htm - -----Original Message----- From: RISPEN@aol.com [SMTP:RISPEN@aol.com] Sent: Monday, September 28, 1998 3:50 PM To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods <> I must agree here, to try and make Mystara compatible with AD&D by doing away with or lessening the Immortals in anyway totally destroys the feel and individuality of the setting. <> Mystara, as its been pointed out on this list before, has never been a setting that is about good vs. evil. To even group the immortals in this way will change the fundamental way Mystara runs. Currently the immortals are of five spheres of influence each opposing the other while trying to gain the most power for their own sphere. Again this is not an attack on the other author, just another D&D purist and Known World player of 17yrs opinion on things *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. Attachment Converted: "D:\EUDORA\attach\WINMAIL.DAT" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 13:37:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: [MYSTARA] - List working? Hi...I was just wondering if the list is working properly...I sent a reply at noon, and now it's 1:30, and it hasn't appeared. neither has any other mail from the list, for that matter. (My service is fine)...Any clue? Jenn valerya@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 22:23:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Strange findings... Hi, I just ran across the most ineresting thing--I ran across a site on the Roman calendar, and it mentioned "fasti" and "nefasti" days! I just thought that was really interesting--"Thyatian" terms in a SE calendar! :-) Jenn valerya@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 23:46:59 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia against US/UK > Jamuga: > > Agreed. (Gosh, when does this charm spell wear off??????...:-) > > Jenn > Hm, wait a second, I've to consider... ...was cast on......intelligence of Jennifer...... Well, ok, make a new saving throw now... Jamuga Khan "Charm spells? I love them! They're really charming." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 14:45:27 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia against the Multiverse! On Thu, 24 Sep 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: > So, how does that sound? Very interesting! Did I miss something? What Gaz? Where can I get my hands on that one? Btw, I love the name Ystmarhavn, did you make that up? Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:38:18 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [OFF TOPIC] IT'S A BOY!!! > Yes, my little one was born on Monday, September 21st at 8:31am and >weighed in at 6lbs, 3oz (approx. 2610g). His name is Nathan Stafford >Merrifield. Hooray! Congratulations, Jenni! :-) Let us know where to send baby Nathan his first set of plush-toy polyhedral dice, okay...? ><------------------------------------------------------------------> > God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. > Then God started to think: "I should create things I *like*!" > And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" And then God said: "Let There Be StrawBABIES!" :-D *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #655 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, September 29 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 656 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate Re: [MYSTARA] - [OFF TOPIC] IT'S A BOY!!! RE: [MYSTARA] - [OFF TOPIC] IT'S A BOY!!! [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] List Status Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate Re: [MYSTARA] - [OFF TOPIC] IT'S A BOY!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate Re: [MYSTARA] - Return of Cthulhudrew & Frogs Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia against the Multiverse! Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia against US/UK [MYSTARA] - The End of the Empires in Brun [LONG] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 23:23:12 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate > They are a Hardball team from the "Dallas" Ward of Stonewall/Draco. 8-)~ > > (actually, Amer. Football/NFL, but I didn't want to be completely off > topic. . .again. . .) > Two good answers! Have I now qualified myself as class C? BTW, my favorite football (European/South American version, of course!) team has beaten the German master today. :-D Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:17:36 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [OFF TOPIC] IT'S A BOY!!! In a message dated 9/28/98 4:53:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, michaelx.harvey@intel.com writes: << On Saturday, September 26, 1998 10:08 AM, Jenni A. M. Merrifield [SMTP:strawberry@jamm.com] wrote: > Well, sorry for the delay, but I have been very, very busy learning > to be a new mom! > > Yes, my little one was born on Monday, September 21st at 8:31am and > weighed in at 6lbs, 3oz (approx. 2610g). Congratulations! We're expected in about 2 weeks... my wife is sure is hoping it'll be small (and soon!) Mike >> well first off congratulations to both the new Mom and the expectant father. coincidently, my eldest sister and her hubby are expecting soon, also within a week or two. this will be my first job as Uncle Alex. though not the last, I have three sisters all of which are married. anyway this first is a niece and is expected to arrive on my own birthday....cool huh. anyway good luck and congratulations alex *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:56:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - [OFF TOPIC] IT'S A BOY!!! Congratulations, Jenni!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (And good luck to Mike and wife!..:) Jenn valerya@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:01:40 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] List Status Mystarans, I think it is obvious to everyone by know the list was down over the weekend. In case some of you weren't aware, it was all due to problems at MPGN, who hosts the list. As far as I can see everything seems fine. Then again, I just now got back online after reinstalling my OS and running into problems Sunday morning. It was probably good the MPGN lists were down, or I would be downloading 1000+ messages. If anyone is still having problems, let me know. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #14585470 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 00:28:43 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate In a message dated 1998-09-28 17:22:53 Eastern Daylight Time, dr_bombastic@hotmail.com writes: > BTW do you think that paladins and avengers could be on the Council as > well (they are technically spellcasters)? > > Hmmm. That could create some serious class problems in Alphatia. Actually by the D&D rules, all spellcasters except for mages would go through a period of being second class citizens before being promoted to the aristocracy, as only mages can cast spells at level 1. Clerics and druids get no spells until 2d level, and paladins and avengers have to be at least 9th level -- even if they were granted their powers earlier, they would have no spells until they reached 6th level and thus were the equivalent of 2d level clerics. And don't forget those halfling Masters, who have to reach 8th level as fighters before becoming 1st level priests. Thanks for the reminder -- it drummed into me just how critical that level of having no spells is to clerics -- definitely a point to keep in mind for any AD&D conversion. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 00:59:27 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [OFF TOPIC] IT'S A BOY!!! In a message dated 1998-09-28 20:58:40 Eastern Daylight Time, beyowulf@pipeline.com writes: > But now, you must Save Vrs Cuteness or go "Awwwwww.." for 1d6 rounds. :) Since the birth of my niece a few months ago I can correct this a bit -- complete strangers are subject to the effect that you cited. Relatives of the baby are affected for far longer -- and they get NO saving throw! ;) By the way, congratulations to Jenni, and try to get some sleep in three or four months -- you won't get much before then. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 00:59:27 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos In a message dated 1998-09-28 22:34:14 Eastern Daylight Time, Valerya@webtv.net writes: > No need to make ourselves nuts with endless conversions. Agreed -- especially since there is no real interaction between Mystara and the real world. On the other hand, I always pictured Laterre in the Dimension of Myth as having a calendar similar to ours -- but the way Mark of Amber is written would suggest that a Laterran year is about the same length as a Mystaran year. That is the main reason I suggested that Mystara might have longer days. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 21:44:36 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall Instead, he got to this "brave new nation" and found a >backwater wilderness with a ruler who rivals his grandson (Ericall) in >his leadership abilities...Oh, joy...So eventually he gets fed up and >takes off... This may just be me, but I always thought that Ericall and Noworld were presented in the C & M modules as being intelligent and good. What happened to make Ericall become the inept klutz he is portrayed as in DotE and the PWA's? Norworld was given a lot of potential to be to the players as Karameikos was when they were Expert level, but the way things are going now, it just can't be the rough 'n' rustic "Kingdom of Adventure" it was supposed to be, what with all those Heldanners running around, and Norworld incapable of putting up a defense (even though in the modules, like M2, Norworld fought off Thyatis and Alpahatia at the same time). Incidentally, have any of you used the M modules and WotI? The Wrath book didn't really mention much going on up rounf Alpha, and I was able to put M2 around AC 1006 (the war also explains why neither Thyatis or Alphatia send much in the way of units to take over Norworld). M1 was played a long time before, but as it never really happens, that doesn't mess up canon. "In the beginning, there was darkness, but before there was darkness, there was Frog" - St. Stephen Nicholas Hudson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 00:59:24 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate In a message dated 1998-09-28 18:40:50 Eastern Daylight Time, eand@WPI.EDU writes: > I seem to remember that Clerics are > gentry, not nobles. So Palandins, and avengers would be Gentry, unable to > serve on the council. Clerics are gentry at 1st level, when they are unable to cast spells. Once they are granted spells at 2d level, they become aristocrats. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 13:21:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Return of Cthulhudrew & Frogs > Hey all! Been away for a bit, got a new email addy (temporarily, anyway), No more Cthulhudrew in your user name? *sob* > Today, strains of Frog and Toad men can be found nearly anywhere on the > globe. The Toad Men in particular have been known to live as far south as > the marshy regions to the northwest of the Denagothian plateau, where > (under the guidance of their patron Stodos) they war with the humans of the > Kingdom of Ghyr. Tell us more! Sounds like a nice start but how do you envision the Toad Men and modern Frog Men as acting? What kind of culture have they developed? Alot of room for further work here but what I see so far I like. > As for the Kingdom of Ghyr, it was first introduced in XL1: Quest for the > Heartstone, and I have placed it to the immediate north of the Denagothian > plateau. More information on this kingdom is forthcoming. :) Looking forward to it! XL1 could certainly have used some changes to give it a more Mystaran feel (sort of like ?Jennifer? did with B1) - -Mischa Bob Dole said he'd go back to Kansas if he lost the election. What was he doing in D.C. as a Chilean lobbyist, arguing against American fishermen? For more info see http://www.jimhightower.com July 13th,1998 commentary *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 14:38:12 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods On Thu, 24 Sep 1998, Jennifer Favia Guerra wrote: > Galwylin, > > Hey, you can take this with a grain of salt if you like, as it's coming > from an Uber-heretic :-)--after all, I've screwed with canon so much on > the subject of Immortals and gods that you probably wouldn't recognize > much of it! But I say go for it--I enjoyed the post, personally, and we > both (Ariel and I--why have two subscriptions when you can share?:-) > agreed with most of your sentiments. I disagree about not having > demihuman deities (actually, I've toyed with the idea of having at least > the elves come from another world, a la CBoE)...but I think you should > keep on keepin' on. If everyone else thinks it's off topic (having so > much to do with AD&D), you can write me personally at the below address. This is about Mystara, not the AD&D system in general. Keep it on the list. I find it interesting. Though the CBoE theories are horrible IMO :) Thats just my opinion though, but I dont mind hearing yours even if it differs from my own. (Cause im such a groovy guy ;) PS: Jenn, I find some of your emails a bit confusing. If you could include some information about which emails you are responding to or include some quotations, that would help alot. Thanks! Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 14:25:08 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods On Thu, 24 Sep 1998, Galwylin wrote: > Greetings! Hi Timothy, where have you been? :) > I wanted to get some feedback. I've been playing around with the > Immortals attempting to see how they would be as gods in AD&D. I've > added new ones, lost a few, and renamed some. I've been trying to get a > good mix of good and evil. You'll also notice that there are no > Immortals devoted to demi-humans. With dwarves, their clerical magic > comes directly from the elements. Elves draw both their magic and > cleric spells from forest spirits that once sheltered them. Those theories about the demihumans are cool, though really unmystaraic. Why did you use that? > **Greater Powers** > > Iliric (CN) > Magic Is he that powerful? Wow. > Forseti (LG) (also known as Forsetta) > Justice Im working on this one. IMC Forseti=Baldur so that would mean he is also Mercy, beauty, innocence.. > Raiden (NE) > Lightning, Fletcher Mortal Kombat? Have you developed this guy further? Where is he worshipped? > Thor (CG) > Honor, Storms, Thunder, Weather Thor was actually very popular among farmers in Norway. He was worshipped to ensure good harvests.. > **Lesser Powers** > Untamo (N) > Dreams Would this be the same as Oneiros, the guy I developed along with the Dreaming-project? (If you remember that one?) All in all alot of good ideas, and a lot of strange ideas too :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 23:36:24 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia against the Multiverse! > Perhaps circa 19th century, especially during the period when only > landowners were permited to vote, this could apply. IMO, sometimes the > similarities between modern Amer & Alph. are over-emphasised. I.E. it would > be like me saying Hattias resembles Germany because both are full of NAZI > skinheads and "guestworkers" (foreigners) are treated with utter contempt. > It would be a complete distortion to say that the FRG was like Hattias in > that way. And you could expect a harsh reaction by me. Unfortunately I have to admit that Germany in the years 1933-1945 was taken as a standard for Hattias. You can believe me that we German roleplayers are not very happy about Hattias. Consequently we don't use them very much. But having the right to elect the government does not describe a state. I believe that the poor Americans from the slums of US cities would not think to have the same rights and chances. Neither have Turkeys in Germany. Neither have fleeing people from Bosnia, Nigeria, etc., and becoming a German is not easy. > Key words of course being "perhaps" and "might", since by law Thyatian > slaves have far more protections (I.E. any) than Alphatian slaves do. In > Alphatia it would depend highly upon the personality of the owner, while in > Thyatis treatment depends on the quality (or lack theirof) of the > enforcement of the legal protections/limits on mistreatement (and we all > know corruption is rife, so I'm not kidding myself, but neither should > Alphatiaphiles kid themselves that Alphatian slaves are well treated and > happy). O.k., let's assume that the medicine in Alphatia is better than in Thyatis. Slaves have a value for their owners, and it would be logical that an ill slave would be send to a doctor. An example: If you live in USA, and your car is defect, you will get it repaired in a workshop. If you are living in Russia, you don't have the money and the workshop don't have replacement pieces, so the car remains defect. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 12:50:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate > 1) I like Alphatian society because, if properly role-played, it gives the > feel that powerful people (even 36th lvl MUs) are still human like the > humblest one (care to remember the ruler of the most powerful nation -and > only surviving empire- in our RW having an "improper relationship"?): they > have sins and temptations, like vanity, evasion (zzonga bush), ambition, > jealousy. Well, they have alot more sins than the average one. I prefer normal, non-corrupt, well-meaning folks in charge. King Ericall comes to mind. > 2) Alphatia is an ideal Utopia... in a sense I never got this impression. It's a quasi-Utopia for the small minority that practice magic. For the rest, it's the pits. If you don't have rights it is hardly Utopian (unless you apply Stalinist logic). > theoretically ideal system and they applied it without taking into account > the basic weakness of human flesh and human nature, so it became a paragon > of paradox, injustice and oppression. Theoretically ideal??????? To let a few twits run the show no matter what their morals or skills are? To restrict the rights of anyone not born into the proper role? I don't think anyone would defend a theory like that. Well, social darwinists, but they are hardly a majority group. > 4) Alphatian characters (and fans) are then my favorite not because the > power they wield, but because they have the chance of observing (or > role-playing) a "living portrait" of many of our own contradicitions > between reality and desire, light and darkness. Like James pointed out, this is the case in any properly handled RPG setting. > This has been too long. I am planning to write these ideas as an > in-character lecture from a Mystaran university, so it can ve more > palatable. Wonderful idea! What would be the OW equivalent of the Lighthouse though? Aplace where cultures can be studied from a strictly scholarly view? Bob Dole said he'd go back to Kansas if he lost the election. What was he doing in D.C. as a Chilean lobbyist, arguing against American fishermen? For more info see http://www.jimhightower.com July 13th,1998 commentary *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 14:33:39 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods On Thu, 24 Sep 1998, Galwylin wrote: > At 02:42 PM 9/24/98 -0400, SteelAngel wrote: > > > >Not to be toooooo critical, but I find this a bit wrong. Remember, since > >the conversion to AD&D, Mystara lost something. It lost its individuality, > >and was placed in a universe with other worlds that previously would not > >have been directly compatible with Mystara's multiversal view. > > Individuality of Mystara or D&D? The two are not the same. Mystara should > be able to maintain its individuality regardless of the rule system it > uses. Besides, I feel that Mystara has 'copied' too much of our world. > Bringing the Immortals up to godhood is only the beginning of my heresy ;> I agree with you on that first point. You may remember my post about adapting AD&D to Mystara. But I think that certain modifications to the AD&D rules are needed to fully describe Mystara with all its Mystaraishness. > >To translate the Immortals into Gods lessens the whole concept of the > >Immortal. It aggrandizes them. Makes them seem infallible. Allows them to > >procreate. And not having any Immortals for Demi-Humans completely > >destroys their entire existence. > > Again, I don't see where your coming from. Immortals do have faults and > always have. Alphatia wasn't the first to recieve their 'infallible' > wisdom. Removing Immortals from demi-humans only distiguishes demi-humans > from humans in my mind. Something that no setting has made attempts at. As I see it, the AD&D system describes the gods from a mortals point of view. In which there is no difference between gods and immortals. The difference is only revealed when you start seeing things from an immortal's/god's point of view, and AD&D doesnt deal with that. > >To say otherwise, is to completely ignore Mystaran canon. > > Exactly. Not just ignore it. Completely rewrite it. In this version, > elves, dwarves, gnomes are created by neither Immortal or god. They are an > extension of the world itself, created from it. The spirits that sheltered > them in the beginning were replaced by Immortals. I will correct that. I like the idea, even though it doesnt fit into my campaign, which is more canon-ish. Maybe for the worse. I say go for it! :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 02:28:53 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia against US/UK In a message dated 98-09-24 13:57:56 EDT, you write: <> alphatia is not all that different from other nations. most nations, both RW and KW, have a ruling elite class. the difference with alphatia is that that ruling class is decided upon based on magical ability. <> well i am white but am certainly not rich. minorities are afforded the same equal rights as everyone else. the notion of discrimination is mostly exagerated. sure discrimination exists, but it exists worldwide. and those illegal aliens...well they do come flooding across the border. obviously being a "3rd class citizen" in the USA is a whole lot better to them than staying in their native Mexico. as for being 3rd class, i have to disagree. one of the major beefs Americans have regarding illegal aliens are the benefits they get within the States. healthcare, welfare, social security, etc. are all funded by US taxpayers. of which illegal and legal aliens are exempt from paying. <> alphatia is good for spellcasters. just as thyatis is good for the wealthy. glantri is good for the mage. and so on. classes exist everywhere. that's the motivation to better oneself. i do agree with the alphatian slaves being treated better. imo alphatians are showy with their possessions. an alphatians wealth and power is displayed by their presentation of holdings. slaves are a material possession. slaves are expensive to buy and maintain. you just don't toss away that investment without good cause. that's something that i have disliked about the thyatian slavery system. thyatians can buy slaves for little to nothing in hard coinage. therefore there is little in the way of investment cost for low skill slaves. heck...in certain cases its cheaper to by a thyatian slave than it is to buy a round of drinks at the local tavern. imc i raised the costs for slaves. imc even the lowliest slave costs about the same as a horse. <> the problem with this is that most noble mages are not inclined to want to be given a command. why devote the time and effort to military life when mage life can be so carefree and much more profitable. another thought is the alphatian marriage system. mages do not neccessarily get married. who your momma or your daddy is is of less importance. think about all the half brothers and sisters out there. imo the exceptions are the kingdoms ruling family where family lineage factors for deciding the heir. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 01:01:09 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: [MYSTARA] - The End of the Empires in Brun [LONG] The following is a conference given at the Oniric Academy of Wendar City [BTW, to the Wendar GAZ team, an area I am trying to develop among some magical info on Wendar]. It is in character, pronounced by my favorite PC, Annecians de Skie, Alphatian Mage (and theoretically King) in exile: ============================================================================ THE END OF THE EMPIRES IN BRUN: A SURVEY ON THE POLITICAL SCENE FOLLOWING THE VANISHING OF ALPHATIA. 1 Ambyrmont, 1015 AC 2015 AY This land which bears us, both people made from it and people arrived from far away in the Void, has lived the stages of its political soul which shaped its history as rivers, mountains and oceans shape its body, following the evolution and rule of empires. Before Alphatia and Thyatis, I have been able to delve into history via a quite unbeliable way and, after centuries of darkness, confirmed the existence of a great empire, Nithia, whose only remains are now the Kingdom of Thotia. For more details, you may refer to my essay "A Commentary on "Claransa´s Travels" and its insights on Ancient History". For now, it is enough to make clear that many other ruins buried below sand, sea or swamp, many other people who now strive to live, isolated or oppressed, like Oltecs, Milenians or -although it might seem insulting to the defenders of the enlightened Kingdom of Karameikos- Traladarans, are the remains of cultures which swept the land with armies and civilization, covering vast expanses of our continent, or even substantial percentages of Mystara. Some empires had already fell into utter oblivion when we Alphatians made Landfall more than two thousand years ago. As time came, both power and chance brought our country to the place of one of such empires; years later, that was Thyatis´ privilege, too and, for one millennium, the lands of the Old World, the Sea of Dawn and Norworld, were our own private arena. It would be a distorted nonsense to negate that both countries strived to amass power, in the form of land, resources and workforce, at the expenses of their rival or lesser lands suffering, but it would be also inaccurate to reduce History to that chain of -hoping that no Darokinians get offended- industrial exploits: On the contrary, both Alphatia and Thyatis developed and spread a spirit, an ideology which could and was mirrored both by individuals and states all over the Old World. Their colonization and the fame or infamy of their clashes did not only bring about language, titles, literature and legends; they also forged a concep, a living portrait of two conceptions of Man, both as an individual and as a member of society. Concepts, ideas, shining and pure, but also subject to endless degrees of paradox and contradiction, much as the soul which each of us treasure inside. These spirits of the world were as contradictory as the armies of each empire, but, at the same time, they complemented each other. So, I will continue with an outline on both of these spirits of history and I will begin, for chronology´s sake, with my departed Alphatia: Alphatia, in the opinion of one who could have ruled, but who decided to depart to better analyze the world and himself, signified the power built by colectivity. Its paradox was that that power of colectivity rested upon individuals who, in the end, became the paradigm of selfishness and discoordination, so bringing about Chaos and injustice: In Alphatia mages ruled. As shining Sundsvall represented, the whole of the Empire was, in a sense, built by magic: forsaken Islands, like the Alatians, could be made fertile by magic; food could be transported (1)... How else could a reduced number of colonizers from other world have gained mastery over a new and extense land? Unfortunately, our race had changed. Not everyone was able to wield the Art, so society become what, from the moral point of view of the individual may be seen as tyrannical, but, from a social analysis is just specialized: those with power would rule; those without it would use the talent of their bodies to labour. Ideally, it was a social contract. In reality, it opened the door to the despotic domination of aristocracy as exemplified in the two Alphatian codes of law. Perhaps the truth of everyday life was more complex, but at least this was the image that Alphatia cast over the world: the State created structure (rulign through magic) and the individual rulers subverted it. Thyatis falls on the opposite plate of the scales: individuals make (or made) the Empire: personal projects, ambitions and desires -those of powerful or charismatic heroes in particular- brought about a sense of identity and universal purpouse. Take, for instance, that Thyatis originated as a conglomerate of three very different tribes (Thyatians, Kerendans and Hattians), not to mention the dependance of the Empire´s own origin -and its ulterior waxing or waning- from thr greatness of a handful of leaders. This feeling made the way for the particular proceedings of Thyatian expansion: their giving of imperial nationality and rights to conquered lands. Every people, every religion was not simply absorbed by the EMpire, they built it at the same time. Of course, that was not a benign procedure, it was not even a conscious one. We cannot blind our eyes to incompetent dinasties of nobles only kept aloof by birth rights, oppresed colonies, mistreated commoners or conspiration against the common interest. The point is just that Thyatian history portrays this: heroicity, personal ambition and competence from the individuals get summed up to build the State. This is the Thyatian paradox, inverse to the Alphatian one: treachery, conspiration and ambition, selfish qualities, made possible (even with irregularities) the existence and expansion of Thyatis; it was like a process of natural selection: growth through competence and conflict. These are the two systems we have known, the two spheres which inspired political thought in our lands. Countries could align themselves with either Empire or remain away and neutral, but what they could not help was to receive this influence of dialectics: How to understand the notion of State, how to set in order the individuals´ wishes and choice with the interest and greatness of a nation? Through the mainland, we mostly speak one or another form of Thyatian; in the archipielagoes, Aplhatian is the usual tongue. But no the Empires are no more; Alphatia is departed and Thyatis has fallen from its former glory: from a country of conquerors, it has changed into a country of survivors; it has no longer the autority to shine as a model of virtue and vice and, if we made a survey over the continent, no land is ready to take the place of either. Empires there are, of course: the Master of Hule is making himself ready to sweep the earth and the evils brewing in Denagoth cannot and will not sit idly within their borders, for we have seen them pour out before, but there is a striking difference: these sinister powers have their view of authority and domination sprung out from religion and the inspiration of an Immortal or church which, by their very nature, are exclusive to them: they cannot produce a spirit of Empire, only subjugation by force. Alphatia and Thyatis had their political concepts drawn without a dependance from religion; they did not close their eyes to the Immortals, but were not condicioned to them; their views could be borrowed by peoples with different worship and traditions. The imperialistic lands of today don´t fit the role of models, dialectical heralds of History and ideas, they can only be seen as menaces. And for the other countries, those who have lived for centuries under the shadow of the empires, they are just a band of survivors: some roguish, some clean and efficient as bureoucrats, some open to innovation, some closed in isolation. Take Karameikos, the first land which first received me after leaving Alphatia: its "enlightened ruler", King Stefan, has picked and chosen from Thyatian ideals only to make them fit into his reduced boundaries; to put it in simple terms, he has debased noble ideas in order to become a big fish in a small pond. All his politics, expeditions and foreign meddling are just focused to bring stability to a handful of towns and farms. The School of Magecraft... an effort which, although promising, denotes desires of independence and autarchy, in this case from the magical authority of Glantri in the continent. Take Ylaruam, a nation closed in a dream, to the point of closing itself to the world and its teachings. Of all the countries I might survey, I only find some glimmers of dynamical politics in Heldann and Glantri, though both of them are presently far away from the chances of shining as ideals: the former don´t make their ideals grow, the just force others to eat them raw, the later, interestingly enough, have managed to blend the worst aspects of the Thyatian and Alphatian paradigms: they organize a confederation based on magic and excellence only to surrender it to selfishness, bickering and conspiration with that madness of Parliament voting. And for the newborn NACE... well, it is the essence of our new paradigm: no empires, no model, only a patchwork of nations and identities which must seek their own fates themselves, only touching, aiding and opposing each other in the measure which it will aid their temporal and material needs and interests. Our political map has been doomed by the Wrath of the Immortals to live on without big ideals: now we have the petty desires and models of barons and kings, various and confusing; the two shining beacons which shone from afar and inspired the destinies of nations and individuals have sunk forever; only Time shall compose their equals. ============================================================================ (1) OOC: for those of you who have asked, DotE mentions in a couple of passages the less importance that factors like distance or climate have in Alphatia, as magic can promtly provide production or transport of goods when needed. The Empire cared (out of structure interest, not charitiy), although individual rulers were selfish or reckless. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #656 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, September 29 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 657 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia against the Multiverse! Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The List Could Go Down Without Notice, and Other Things. Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Council Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia against the Multiverse! Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall Re: [MYSTARA] - Return of Cthulhudrew & Frogs [MYSTARA] - [off topic] My lack of snippage Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia against US/UK Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate Re: [MYSTARA] - [off topic] My lack of snippage Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate [MYSTARA] - Just checking... Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall Re: [MYSTARA] - [off topic] My lack of snippage ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:11:46 -0700 From: Dave Keyser Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall Nicholas Hudson wrote: > Instead, he got to this "brave new nation" and found a > >backwater wilderness with a ruler who rivals his grandson (Ericall) in > >his leadership abilities...Oh, joy...So eventually he gets fed up and > >takes off... > > This may just be me, but I always thought that Ericall and Noworld > were presented in the C & M modules as being intelligent and good. What > happened to make Ericall become the inept klutz he is portrayed as in > DotE and the PWA's? Norworld was given a lot of potential to be to the > players as Karameikos was when they were Expert level, but the way > things are going now, it just can't be the rough 'n' rustic "Kingdom of > Adventure" it was supposed to be, what with all those Heldanners running > around, and Norworld incapable of putting up a defense (even though in > the modules, like M2, Norworld fought off Thyatis and Alpahatia at the > same time). Those adventures count on the high-level PCs doing all the work.Ericall does not play a central role, and if he doesn't have the PCs to help him in CM1 and M2, he will probably lose most of his land. I always saw him as a decent fellow, but not a good ruler. If he has one strength, it would be the ability to recruit high-level talent.(If the PCs can successfully complete those modules. > Incidentally, have any of you used the M modules and WotI? The > Wrath book didn't really mention much going on up rounf Alpha, and I was > able to put M2 around AC 1006 (the war also explains why neither Thyatis > or Alphatia send much in the way of units to take over Norworld). M1 was > played a long time before, but as it never really happens, that doesn't > mess up canon. If I ever get around to running WotI, I would definitely do the same. Iwould take the elements from CM1 and M2 and run them around 1007- 1009AC. M5 could even be used as a backdrop for the eventual peace agreement between Thyatis and Alphatia. Dave Keyser *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 01:07:09 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia against the Multiverse! > > O.k., let's assume that the medicine in Alphatia is better than in Thyatis. > An assumption that I would not concur with, especially since in Mystara "medicine" is generally equated with "Clerical magic," and Clerical magic is more prominent (per canon) within Thyatis than it is in Alphatia. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 01:16:14 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall > > This may just be me, but I always thought that Ericall and Noworld > were presented in the C & M modules as being intelligent and good. > Well, he was good, but not intelligent. That was part of the point (would an intelligent dude have appointed so many traitors as Lords?) His wife (where'd she go, anyhow? She disapears from canon outside the modules) was intelligent. Ericall was depicted, IMO, as a well-intentioned dolt, and IMO for good reason: a smart, strong ruler would have ran the show. But the point behind the C & M modules was to have (ta-da!) the PCs be the heros of the story, not Ericall (NPC). Thus, the PCs are given responsibility (by default, due to the fecklessness of the King) for deciding strategy in the defence of Norwold against invaders, whole bunches (the beloved Max I comes to mind) of their fellow feudal lords (all appointed to their positions by Ericall) turn out to be double agents and worthless traitors, etc. If Ericall was a intelligent, competent ruler, then the scope of authority/decision making/creativity for the PCs in the Norwold-centered modules would have been restricted. But he was a nice guy, I suppose. A Stefan of the North, I guess. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:16:31 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The List Could Go Down Without Notice, and Other Things. Mystarans, Got the following message from the MPGN guys... >>>>>>>>>>> Hurricane Georges wasn't playing nice with our little island. We got our generator fixed and are running on generator power. We have an estimate of 2-5 days before power is restored. We are going to try to keep the generator fueled, but no promises. >>>>>>>>>>> So, if the list suddenly goes down, you know why. Also, I feel a need to step in and remind the folks participating in the "Alphatia Against the (Whatever)" thread that some of the posts have little to no Mystara relavence any more, and to either bring it back on topic or end it, taking it to private e-mail. This is not the place to make inflammatory statements about each other's countries. Thank you. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #20039817 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 00:08:08 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate Hi Mystaran ... >From: "Nicholas Hudson" >Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 21:33:44 PDT > Hmmm. That could create some serious class problems in Alphatia. >Under oD&D, you have to be at least 15-th? level to become a paladin >or avenger. I thought in OD&D fighter just need to be of level 9 to become paladin or avenger (or landed) ... Does your version change this ? > "In the beginning, there was darkness, but before there was >darkness, there was Frog" - St. Stephen " ... when French eated it ... then came darkness" Marcus ;o) Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT à mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 01:05:07 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Council >From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" >Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:11:26 +0200 >The Wrath of the Immortals texts puts the term "Thousand Wizards" between >inverted commas itself, so it leaves quite clear that it is just a >traditional denomination which does not imply a literal number. It's like the "invincible armada" that wasn't so invincible ... or the hundred years war ... but it's impressive ;o) Marcus ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:28:37 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall No, you are absolutely right. Ericall is a King Arthurish/Halavish/Stephenish figure in CM1 imo. Nicholas Hudson wrote: > > Instead, he got to this "brave new nation" and found a > >backwater wilderness with a ruler who rivals his grandson (Ericall) in > >his leadership abilities...Oh, joy...So eventually he gets fed up and > >takes off... > > This may just be me, but I always thought that Ericall and Noworld > were presented in the C & M modules as being intelligent and good. What > happened to make Ericall become the inept klutz he is portrayed as in > DotE and the PWA's? Norworld was given a lot of potential to be to the > players as Karameikos was when they were Expert level, but the way > things are going now, it just can't be the rough 'n' rustic "Kingdom of > Adventure" it was supposed to be, what with all those Heldanners running > around, and Norworld incapable of putting up a defense (even though in > the modules, like M2, Norworld fought off Thyatis and Alpahatia at the > same time). > Incidentally, have any of you used the M modules and WotI? The > Wrath book didn't really mention much going on up rounf Alpha, and I was > able to put M2 around AC 1006 (the war also explains why neither Thyatis > or Alphatia send much in the way of units to take over Norworld). M1 was > played a long time before, but as it never really happens, that doesn't > mess up canon. > "In the beginning, there was darkness, but before there was darkness, there was Frog" - St. Stephen > > Nicholas Hudson > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:33:12 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia against the Multiverse! I agree with James here, and I would add, that I have always seen magic as being Alphatia's great strength and weakness. Where they would be approaching the use of herbs as "How will this plant help me cast a heal spell?" the Thyatian might actually study the plant for inherent qualities. Now, understand, I am only saying "tend" here. I am not saying that an Alphatian cannot use herbs or that Thyatians cannot use magic. I am just saying that the two empires, being opposed in most things, probably approach the use of "nature" in different ways too... James Ruhland wrote: > > > > > > O.k., let's assume that the medicine in Alphatia is better than in > Thyatis. > > > An assumption that I would not concur with, especially since in Mystara > "medicine" is generally equated with "Clerical magic," and Clerical magic > is more prominent (per canon) within Thyatis than it is in Alphatia. > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:37:25 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall James Ruhland wrote: > > > > > > This may just be me, but I always thought that Ericall and Noworld > > were presented in the C & M modules as being intelligent and good. > > > Well, he was good, but not intelligent. That was part of the point (would > an intelligent dude have appointed so many traitors as Lords?) His wife > (where'd she go, anyhow? She disapears from canon outside the modules) was > intelligent. My guess is that she disappears because of her openended inclusion in the module. Since the module is open to pc wives for the king, I figure the designers of the kingdom for DotE would leave it as is...ready for running CM1. I think they made a mistake, personally. I think Christina Marie Alanira, as a young promising sorceress whom everyone expects to take a council seat, is one of the strengths of the Kingdom of Norwold. > Ericall was depicted, IMO, as a well-intentioned dolt, and IMO for good > reason: a smart, strong ruler would have ran the show. But the point behind > the C & M modules was to have (ta-da!) the PCs be the heros of the story, > not Ericall (NPC). Thus, the PCs are given responsibility (by default, due > to the fecklessness of the King) for deciding strategy in the defence of > Norwold against invaders, whole bunches (the beloved Max I comes to mind) > of their fellow feudal lords (all appointed to their positions by Ericall) > turn out to be double agents and worthless traitors, etc. > If Ericall was a intelligent, competent ruler, then the scope of > authority/decision making/creativity for the PCs in the Norwold-centered > modules would have been restricted. But he was a nice guy, I suppose. A > Stefan of the North, I guess. I think Ericall was intelligent, but not wise. I see him as being an excellent individual hero/warrior. He is a soldier, perhaps even a good tactician. But he is definitely not up to running such a huge country by himself. > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 07:53:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Return of Cthulhudrew & Frogs I think that it was Jenni Merrifield who did B1. But it wasn't me. :-) Jenn valerya@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 07:57:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: [MYSTARA] - [off topic] My lack of snippage About those emails, guys, I think I've about had it with the webtv address. It allows me to either include the entire message or none at all. I've tried both, and had tons of complaints with both. Those few snips I've done, I've written verbatim myself from the original. Personally, I'm about to scream...But please, don't think that I'm an idiot--blame Bill Gates :-) Jenn valerya@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:47:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia against US/UK >> Agreed. (Gosh, when does this charm spell wear off??????...:-) >> >> Jenn > >Hm, wait a second, I've to consider... > >...was cast on......intelligence of Jennifer...... > >Well, ok, make a new saving throw now... > Actually, the Cretaure Catalog doesn't have a listing for the 'Child' group of creatures. However, I have some basic stats culled from various sources. They are incomplete, and sages are still working hard to piece together more details. CHILD Newborn Special Abilities: Disturb all sleepers except self Permanent 'Charm Person' on parents, standard 'Charm Person' on all other humans (as per Rules Cyclopedia) % Chance of Sleep: 95% Special Attacks: messy diaper, save vs. poison or nausea for 1-4 rounds There are other sub-classes of this mysterious creature (Infant, Toddler), but the sages haven't been able to gather the information yet. In time, though, you should have enough information yourself to provide a more complete picture. :-) Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:09:23 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall > > No, you are absolutely right. Ericall is a King > Arthurish/Halavish/Stephenish figure in CM1 imo. > Right, exactly what I said: a nice enough guy, with the intellect of a small potato, just like Stefan. 8-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:16:04 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate > > > Two good answers! > > Have I now qualified myself as class C? > For Football (Amer)? Sure. For Alphatia. . . 8-)~ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:02:10 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall Ooh, I would not want to be the one responsible for saying King Halav had the intellect of a small potatoe... James Ruhland wrote: > > > > > > No, you are absolutely right. Ericall is a King > > Arthurish/Halavish/Stephenish figure in CM1 imo. > > > Right, exactly what I said: a nice enough guy, with the intellect of a > small potato, just like Stefan. 8-) > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:17:21 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall > > Ooh, I would not want to be the one responsible for saying King Halav > had the intellect of a small potatoe... > Ok, ok. For Halav, it wasn't a potato. It was a head of cabbage. (IMO, Petra and Zirchev are roughly analagous to modern Karameikans such as Olivia and Jowet: Stefan & Halav gets all the aclaim, while these other folk get none of the credit, but are the obvious forces behind whatever actual successes [thouse not just due to fortuitous circumstances] are achieved.) After all, you never hear anyone saying how wonderful Petra is, you only hear about the great Halav. IMO, these dudes (Stefan, Ericall, Halav) are largely "empty suits" into which the populace etc. can pour whatever virtues they want to see (the illusion of the "great leader". . .if you don't take an actual position on anything, then people can ascribe to you whatever beliefs they want, usually their own, and thus consider you to be a paragon): the actual (sometimes dirty) business of *real* leadership and governance is/was in the hands of others (Olivia, Christina Marie Alanira, Petra, Oliver Jowett, Zirchev) who had the backbone and the insight to do what was/is nessisary to achieve the goals. Then the empty suits get the credit, while the others are decried (being "tainted" by the methods they used) or simply ignored. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:43:53 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate > >Has anyone ever calculated out how many experience points it would > take, to > >GET a thousand 36th level mages...? Or how many slain monsters, > researched > >spells, enchanted magic items or flying castles they'd have had to > >slay/research/enchant/construct, in order to earn that many...? > > > >The mind boggles. > > Well, these mages have generally been alive for a few hudred years, > so that's not too unusual (we finally have the reason why Alphatian > mages keep summoning monsters, even when they know they're just going to > escape: to get more experience!). Of course, that raises another > problem: a 36-th level mage who has been aroung for a couple of > centuries can create quite a few "broad swords +10, +25 vs. anything I > don't like". And if you pay 1 EP per 1 GP, the Alphatian wages for spellcasters let those employed by these wages storm through the ranks. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:54:55 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards > as far as i know the Grand Council is exclusively 36th level magic users. the > only thing i have seen to the contrary is JamugaKhan's version of the Council, > where he includes paladins, clerics, avengers, rangers, etc. it's good work > but i disagreed with it when first sent it to me and i disagree with it now. > the only way i could see its exception would be in a postwrath alphatia where > the Grand Council is thinned out by war and the sinking. and where a good > portion are in HollowWorld. No problem! I don't agree to your Randel Gazetteer neither. Too big, too militaristic, too many soldiers... Otherwise it's really an excellent piece of work. But back to the Grand Council: I indeed had problems to imagine a council with 1000 wizards level 36. Additionally there were many other spellcasters in the country. So the idea was born that "mage" means "spellcaster", when used in a law, and that the Grand Council had clerics and other in their ranks. Imagine 600 wizards, 300 patriarchs, and 100 paladins/avengers, all on level 36, and the number is not so incredible as before. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:58:14 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate > Now, after all this time, you're a member of > the elite. There is no mortal power whatsoever, including 36-th level > mages, comparable to an equivalent level avenger/paladin with a(n) > (un)holy avenger. You know what they say about payback. Greetings from Marshall Dillon... :-) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 19:13:08 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [off topic] My lack of snippage > But please, don't think that I'm an > idiot--blame Bill Gates :-) > > Jenn We're pleased to do so: BILL GATES, YOU'RE BLAMED!!!! Jamuga Khan "No horde can be strong enough to fight Microsoft. SIGH!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 19:05:32 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate > On the subj of Avengers/Paladins in the Council, I have to say i disagree > with that concept. Alphatia has always seemed to me that it favors MU's > over any other kind of Magic user. I seem to remember that Clerics are > gentry, not nobles. So Palandins, and avengers would be Gentry, unable to > serve on the council. First level clerics are gentries, second level and higher clerics are aristocrats (or lords, or princes, or kings, or emperors :-) ). IMO paladins and avengers are something between slave and gentry until actually becoming ones. Those without the capability to cast spells might be gentries to honour them, but real wielders of magics are aristocrats - Alphatian laws say it so... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:25:39 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Just checking... This is a test message to see if the list is getting through. Due to lack of snippage ability, I have switched over to my hotmail address. Jenn valerya@hotmail.com Valerya@webtv.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so much as to make settled things strange. --GK Chesterton ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:58:19 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall Oooh! You are going to be in trouble when Galwyn hears this! But I largely agree with you, albeit with twists in my own campaign. I ran a whole thing where the pcs went back in time (after learning all their imaginary lives of the great hero-king Halav) and met the boy king trying very hard to fill the roll of "servant of destiny". It was fun. But the poor priest of Halav was deeply troubled and never quite the same... James Ruhland wrote: > > > > > > Ooh, I would not want to be the one responsible for saying King Halav > > had the intellect of a small potatoe... > > > Ok, ok. For Halav, it wasn't a potato. > It was a head of cabbage. (IMO, Petra and Zirchev are roughly analagous > to modern Karameikans such as Olivia and Jowet: Stefan & Halav gets all > the aclaim, while these other folk get none of the credit, but are the > obvious forces behind whatever actual successes [thouse not just due to > fortuitous circumstances] are achieved.) > After all, you never hear anyone saying how wonderful Petra is, you only > hear about the great Halav. IMO, these dudes (Stefan, Ericall, Halav) are > largely "empty suits" into which the populace etc. can pour whatever > virtues they want to see (the illusion of the "great leader". . .if you > don't take an actual position on anything, then people can ascribe to you > whatever beliefs they want, usually their own, and thus consider you to be > a paragon): the actual (sometimes dirty) business of *real* leadership and > governance is/was in the hands of others (Olivia, Christina Marie Alanira, > Petra, Oliver Jowett, Zirchev) who had the backbone and the insight to do > what was/is nessisary to achieve the goals. > Then the empty suits get the credit, while the others are decried (being > "tainted" by the methods they used) or simply ignored. > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:08:17 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [off topic] My lack of snippage Ethengar vs Glantri? Thyatis vs Alphatia? Feel my wrath! Bill "the better Khan" Gates "Here and obey, for the mighty Gates' Word is law!" Jamuga Khan wrote: > > > But please, don't think that I'm an > > idiot--blame Bill Gates :-) > > > > Jenn > > We're pleased to do so: > > BILL GATES, YOU'RE BLAMED!!!! > > Jamuga Khan > > "No horde can be strong enough to fight Microsoft. SIGH!" > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #657 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, September 29 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 658 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Mystara's "forces beside the Throne" Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Rulership RE: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods---long Re: [MYSTARA] - [OFF TOPIC] IT'S A BOY!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods [MYSTARA] - To European Members Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Mystara's "forces beside the Throne" Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Rulership Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia against the Multiverse! Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Wives and Pesants Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Mystara's "forces beside the Throne" Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Wives and Pesants ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:36:24 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Mystara's "forces beside the Throne" > > Oooh! You are going to be in trouble when Galwyn hears this! > I live to serve. *bows at the waist*. Actually, their is a point to my. . .pointed. . .diatribes. After all, where do you think new threads/topics of discourse come from? certainly not from amicable agreement. Gotta be provocative 8-) (Just gotta keep from falling into the "jerk" catagory when doing so). > But the poor priest of Halav was deeply troubled and never quite the > same... > Disillusionment can be hard on the faithful. . . . *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:45:27 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall >Ok, ok. For Halav, it wasn't a potato. > It was a head of cabbage. ...lol... > After all, you never hear anyone saying how wonderful Petra is, you only >hear about the great Halav. I thought, as well, that this was a major fault of Karameikan religious development. IMO, I think that Perta in particular would be a lot more involved with the Church of Traladara than Halav, who's running around chasing Ranivorus ;-) >IMO, these dudes (Stefan, Ericall, Halav) are >largely "empty suits" into which the populace etc. can pour whatever >virtues they want to see (the illusion of the "great leader". . I disagree with the "empty suit" hypothesis. I don't think that Halav was necessarily an empty suit--it's just that he was a warrior-king, not a ruler. You can't expect him to have an extremely high intelligence, although he was no doubt a tactical genius. As for Ericall, he's doing much better as a ruler IMC now that Mommy and Daddy are gone and he's been forced to deal with the consequences of his previous stupidities. He's an intelligent man (Int 14); he just hadn't any ruling experience under his belt. As for Stefan, you guys are on your own--I'm not defending him...;-) Jenn valerya@hotmail.com Valerya@webtv.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ "The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so much as to make settled things strange." (GK Chesterton) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:44:00 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Rulership > although he was no doubt a tactical genius. As for > Ericall, he's doing much better as a ruler IMC now that > Mommy and Daddy are gone and he's been forced to deal > with the consequences of his previous stupidities. He's > an intelligent man (Int 14); he just hadn't any ruling > experience under his belt. > Hmmmn. . . .how to make this point without going on blithering forever off topic. . . Ok, let's try this: I bet we can all think of examples of historical (or current) rulers who seemed to have everything it takes to be effective, even great, rulers. Folks who, in past positions (say, even in government, thus having experience under their belts as well, if only in a subordinate role) showed intelligence and ability, but who for some reason (an indefinable factor, perhaps) just were horrible in the top job (King, Emperor, President, whatever), perhaps indecisive, reckless, or even overconfident (assured of their own abilities, and thus not taking into consideration the limits on their abilities, as well as the capabilities of their opponents; be they internal political opposition, foreign enemies, or just natural obsticles to success [I.E. entropic forces.]). A certain judgement factor. Conversely, some uneducated people, who seemingly (prior to having the responsibility of the big job foisted on them) sometimes rise to the occassion, and become effective, even great, leaders. OTOH, though, I see absolutely no reason why Ericall couldn't become an effective ruler after a period of mistakes/bad rule. After all, to use one example, Basil II "Bulgarnoctonos" Makedonion, in the first decade plus of his reign he lurched from one disaster and mistake to another, but "grew in office" and is generally considered one of the more effective (if hopelessly autocratic, and occassionally brutal) of the late Roman/Byzantine emperors. But some folks, dispite having every seeming advantage, just never seem to make the grade (these guys are generally responsible for your major catastrophies, since neither they nor their advisors can see the problem; after all, "everyone knows" what a smart, capable dude the guy is, the failures must be for some other reason, therefore, they don't push him out of office in a timely manner, resulting in disaster.) Hmmmn. . .guess I did go on ad homenem anyhow. Oh well, at least I restrained myself to only one IRL example. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:50:48 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods---long At 08:55 PM 9/28/98 -0500, Muaadeeb wrote: > >I call them gods instead of Immortals. Immortals refer to themselves as >immortals though. I view the word Immortal as a replacement for gods. In fact, I imagine that the word god doesn't exist on Mystara :) >As for the conflict between the 5 sphere's it still does exist >but it's not public knowledge or domain. Mortals, AKA, most players see the >world as clashing forces and differing ethos. The five spheres for me are a non-issue when it comes to mortals. There's no library for them to look this up and the Immortals aren't telling. For players to even have knowledge of them or their purpose requires that they seek immortality. That's something I've never had to deal with and will probably just ignore it. I like the groups, cliques, and councils outlined in WotI much better though I probably won't deal much with them either. This has been a Galwylin(r) Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:51:17 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [OFF TOPIC] IT'S A BOY!!! Congrats, Jenni!! This has been a Galwylin(r) Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:04:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall > > This may just be me, but I always thought that Ericall and Noworld > > were presented in the C & M modules as being intelligent and good. > > > Well, he was good, but not intelligent. That was part of the point (would > an intelligent dude have appointed so many traitors as Lords?) It is hard to tell someone's true character, even with magic. While I don't know of any Presidents who have hired traitors for their cabinet, every last one has had more than a few incompetents. Also, you must remember Ericall needed ANY help he could get to colonize the land and free himself from his mother's rule. He couldn't exactly afford to be picky or only appoint those he knew he could trust. >> His wife (where'd she go, anyhow? She disapears from canon outside the >> modules) was intelligent. I actually thought she was the more impulsive/unwise (if book-smart) one. I thought she had a lot of potential and it was a shame she wasn't discussed much in M2and then done away with totally in later sources. Norworld overall got way too little attention in later materials IMO. > Ericall was depicted, IMO, as a well-intentioned dolt, and IMO for good > reason: a smart, strong ruler would have ran the show. Norworld was a total wilderness. A well-intentioned dolt could never have formed a nation no matter how much help he had. I think Ericall was smart and strong but in Norworld you needed more to run things - that's where the PC heroes came in. > Norwold against invaders, whole bunches (the beloved Max I comes to mind) > of their fellow feudal lords (all appointed to their positions by Ericall) > turn out to be double agents and worthless traitors, etc. Well, half. They mixed them evenly in CM1. If you count 6 PCs, only about a quarter (much better than many other Mystaran nations, I might add). What I didn't like was that all the bad rulers still owned their land in M2, assuming CM1 never really happened. I think the whole making Ericall an ineffectual ruler was part of the whole Alphatia-is-heaven,everyone-who-doesn't-like-it-is-pathetic logic that started taking root after the modules in DoTE and then only got worse with time (as James has pointed out several times). "Hunger is an obscenity, and hunger in America is the ultimate obscenity." -- Harry Chapin (1942-1981) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:07:21 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods At 02:25 PM 9/25/98 +0200, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > >Hi Timothy, where have you been? :) Buried in work, I'm afraid. I am surprised. No one seemed to remember my real name even when I had changed my email identity :) >Those theories about the demihumans are cool, though really unmystaraic. >Why did you use that? Well, the short answer is that I don't think Mystara is returning to the shelves. I saw this as a chance to do a homegrown campaign setting without having to detail maps and NPCs. Just change what I didn't like and keep what I did. Still more work than I have time for though. I'm tackling the timeline next ;> >> **Greater Powers** >> >> Iliric (CN) >> Magic > >Is he that powerful? Wow. Not officially, I don't think. But I discovered him in my research and he fit where I needed him too. I still question if I should have him CN though and not more lawful since magic works by going by some pretty strict rules. >> Forseti (LG) (also known as Forsetta) >> Justice > >Im working on this one. IMC Forseti=Baldur so that would mean he is also >Mercy, beauty, innocence.. I think Forseti has mercy too (or I've just been looking through so many books on gods that they are starting to blend). I found him in the On Hallow Ground book for Planescape. Made the connection with Forsetta and tada. I really thought about bringing in the whole Norse pantheon from that book but I wanted more cultures represented but not an armful of gods that have the same areas of concern. >> Raiden (NE) >> Lightning, Fletcher > >Mortal Kombat? Have you developed this guy further? Where is he >worshipped? Another surprise for me because I never knew there really was a god by that name. I think this will be one of those Immortals the people of Ochalea have given (though I'm sure they would rather not be known for that). I have imagine specialty priests that are able to cast lightning bolt and teleport all with the flair from the movie. I like the alignment very much for him. >> Thor (CG) >> Honor, Storms, Thunder, Weather > >Thor was actually very popular among farmers in Norway. He was worshipped >to ensure good harvests.. I think I saw something where he was connected to agricultural aspects of life. I'll have to include that. >> **Lesser Powers** > >> Untamo (N) >> Dreams > >Would this be the same as Oneiros, the guy I developed along with the >Dreaming-project? (If you remember that one?) Afraid I don't remember that. How long has it been? I know very recent things have just past me by and I have a memory that is practically useless ;) Untamo is over sleep and dreams. Dreams is what I was looking for and this is the only one I found. >All in all alot of good ideas, and a lot of strange ideas too :) Thanks for both. I hope they're good and if they do seem strange, look where they came from ;> This has been a Galwylin(r) Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:03:59 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: [MYSTARA] - To European Members Hi everybody, would you like to take part in a meeting of European MML members? About a month ago I met Tomas Sanchez in Zaragoza (Spain) and he suggested that we could organize a meeting of all the European members of the MML. We discussed this in private e-mail with DM and Herve and they agreed to the idea. Tomas suggested Geneve as a possible location for the meeting, later I proposed Paris because it's nearer for Brits and Irishmen. Someone else suggested Berlin, good location for Germans, Northlanders and people from eastern Europe (if any). Anyway, if you would like to take part in such a meeting write me in private e-mail (DO NOT clutter the MML with reply messages, please) stating your favourite location (except your hometown :-) and period of the year (probably summer is best choice). Maybe we'll manage to set up something for next summer. Bye. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:17:17 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods At 02:33 PM 9/25/98 +0200, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > >I agree with you on that first point. You may remember my post about >adapting AD&D to Mystara. But I think that certain modifications to the >AD&D rules are needed to fully describe Mystara with all its >Mystaraishness. There's enough various books and articles for AD&D that I think it can be done. >As I see it, the AD&D system describes the gods from a mortals point of >view. In which there is no difference between gods and immortals. The >difference is only revealed when you start seeing things from an >immortal's/god's point of view, and AD&D doesnt deal with that. Well, I'm not sure exactly what you mean here but my approach is that of the average Mystarans' life. (Reminds me of the old questions does god make man or man make god.) Unlike an Immortal rising up to serve his purpose, I'm placing them where they serve the purposes of mortals. For example, I wanted a sea god so I tried to look at from an mortal's persceptive. At first, I though they might see the sea as evil but then its a source of livelihood so there is good to it. I finally went with CN to show how it is uncontrollable and beyond good and evil. The Immortal had to fit that philosophy or I'd have to find a new one as I had already determined how the sea was (I ended up giving the alignment to a old Immortal from D&D). In truth, the alignments of good and evil don't fit very well with my idea of Immortals but I'm using them because I don't want chaotic=evil and lawful=good as some products seemed to use. This has been a Galwylin(r) Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:20:52 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards > > But back to the Grand Council: I indeed had problems to imagine a council > with 1000 wizards level 36. Additionally there were many other spellcasters > in the country. So the idea was born that "mage" means "spellcaster", when > used in a law, and that the Grand Council had clerics and other in their > ranks. > > Imagine 600 wizards, 300 patriarchs, and 100 paladins/avengers, all on > level 36, and the number is not so incredible as before. > Well, as someone who is known as a defender of all things Thyatian and who has a reputation (deserved or not) for disliking Alphatia, folks might expect that I'd rush to adopt this option (after all, it would have the effect of narrowing the percieved gap between the empires, if one assumes, as they might rationally do, that in Thyatis there are the 250 mages of Sclaras, and a comparable number of patriarchs and paladins/avengers/general fighters, for a total of circa 750*) *Pointless asside in the middle of the screed: yes, I know that the council of Alphatia is "limited" to 1,000 members, meaning their might be more 36th level wizards et al, just like Sclaras is "limited" to 250 36th mages, meaning their are concevably more. However, I'm of the opinion that the waiting list to get into either the Council or Sclaras isn't comparable to the waiting list to get, say, Green Bay Packer season tickets. IMO, their are few mages beyond the "cap". Now back to our regularly scheduled screed, already in progress: But I think it does a diservice to *Alphatia* to make this switch (this makes the second time in as many days that I've defended what are, IMO, unique aspects of Alph. society from needless dilution, if you include the diatribes between Daly and myself on the MMB). And if that means one assumes a thousand plus 36th level mages, circa 300 36th level priests, and a couple hundred 36th level fighters exist in Alphatia (for a grand total of aproximately 1,500, or double the "notional" figure I suggested for Thyatis, rather than mearly +25%), then so be it. IMO, it is a diservice to the nature of Alphatia to adopt this change retrospectively (I.E. as being the norm, say, pre-WotI). OtoH, someone (sorry, I forgot who) suggested that this concept be adopted post-Wrath, representing an (enforced?) change in the laws (or the interpretation of them) due to losses during the conflict. This might be good for two reasons: 1) helps solve the "problem" of the Wizards over Glantri (as well as the unknown # of thouse exiled by Zandor). One could assume circa 40% of them lost power while flying (magic dead= "plop", and the usual Contingencies to insure survival, well, all based on magic, so they fail. Death is unwelcomed, but occurs on an unrivaled scale). 2) helps thouse like J.F.G. who want to have a significant number of Alph. Wizards stuck on the surface, for whatever purpose, while not directly contradicting canon (want to assume a hundred survive? two hundred? but on the surface? go for it!) 3) Somewhat lowers the percieved power of Alph in the HW. Also represents a potential nacient reform/change, however slight, in how things were done before compaired to how they are done now (thus Alph is not some kind of static society, but one that goes through change and growth like any other society.) Could, eventually (decades down the line) open up some new issues, for several reasions: 1) several hundred new members, all at once, with different backrounds and perhaps ideas to match, by itself this will shake things up. 2) as mentioned, many of the old guard (wizards) may have been hundreds of years old, and set in their way. Now gone, or at least their (political) power has been somewhat limited. 3) IMO, harkening back to the thread some time ago regarding magical talent and its heritability, one thing that could mean is there is (or, rather, was) a hidden subtext to Alphatian society: if magical talent is (largely) heritible, then social status is (was) largely heritable itself. This means that the aristocracy put on a good facade of being open to anyone, so long as they showed the talent, while in fact being (for the most part) as closed as any fudal nobility (because the talent that is required for access to the aristocratic class is heritable). Now, all the sudden, they must *really* open up, bringing in once excluded spellcasters. Thus, Alphatia starts to be closer to its percieved ideal (meritocratic). 4) a hundred or so fighters, and several hundred priests, largely with long backrounds in the servile classes (or gentry), who likely have most of their friends and family still in the servile classes. Over time, eventually (definately not in the near future) could lead to further changes, opening up of reforms, rights for the commoners, etc (remembering that in Thyatis one of the main reason that laws limiting the authority of masters over slaves is because over the years a number of prominent Thyatians rose out of the slave class into political power. The same sort of dynamic could affect Alphatian society as well, given time and sufficient preasure). What with the more conservative "old guard" wizards weakened and or gone, the oportunity for a number of reform movements is great. (especially since IMO Alphatians, being chaotic individualists, have a presumption in favor of change anyhow, and social movements/upheavals should be not only possible, but likely in such a society). So, what I'd advocate (not that anyone has to do what I advocate, by any means) is that folks adopt Jamuga's version of the Council for post-Wrath Alphatia, opening up some interesting political and role-playing oportunities. IMO, with (continental) Alphatia now floating and thus largely isolated, events and adventures relating to it are directed (to some degree) in more internal ways (yes, lots of oportunity for "exploratory" adventures as well, but that might get monotonous). This might also be a way to further diferentiate some of the more bland/faceless Alph Kingdoms, as some (I.E. Stonewall, Limn) are more likely to embrace the new reforms and the changes that result from them than others (I.E. Arogansa). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:44:34 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall At 01:58 PM 9/29/98 -0400, Daly wrote: >Oooh! You are going to be in trouble when Galwyn hears this! Oh, I'd say your warning is just a bit late ;> The gallows await! Hang em till they're dead and beyond resurrection! ;D This has been a Galwylin(r) Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:56:40 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Mystara's "forces beside the Throne" At 01:36 PM 9/29/98 -0500, James Ruhland wrote: > >I live to serve. *bows at the waist*. > Actually, their is a point to my. . .pointed. . .diatribes. After all, >where do you think new threads/topics of discourse come from? certainly not >from amicable agreement. Gotta be provocative 8-) Maybe the Immortals will see your sacrilege and put you beyond the help of Viagra. How's that for provocative? ;> This has been a Galwylin(r) Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:07:40 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Rulership At 02:44 PM 9/29/98 -0500, James Ruhland wrote: > > OTOH, though, I see absolutely no reason why Ericall couldn't become an >effective ruler after a period of mistakes/bad rule. After all, to use one >example, Basil II "Bulgarnoctonos" Makedonion, in the first decade plus of >his reign he lurched from one disaster and mistake to another, but "grew in >office" and is generally considered one of the more effective (if >hopelessly autocratic, and occassionally brutal) of the late >Roman/Byzantine emperors. What does Ericall need? A good woman! Who do you think got Stefan to betray his friend during WotI? Could it have possibily been Olivia? Remember, she didn't join Stefan until he had Karameikos in hand (social climber); she keeps tabs on everything in the kingdom (her network of spies and informants). Why would she do all this? Well, she comes from a land where women aren't expected to know a lot or have power. The only thing she could do is marry a man through whom she could gain what she wanted. So, now she has a man that the people adore (for the most part and which she probably was instrumental in creating) and now she's a queen of one of the richest lands in the Known World. And I don't think she's satisfied. Not saying she doesn't love the lug but in her own way, she's helping him out like a wife should. Vanya could learn a few tricks from this gal. Get Ericall a woman that has everything he doesn't in terms of ability to rule and he won't ever have to worry about learning the tough lessons. And best of all, the people will love him and his bride can sit back and count the wealth ;> This has been a Galwylin(r) Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:13:15 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia against the Multiverse! Haavard said: >Very interesting! Did I miss something? What Gaz? Where can I get my hands >on that one? Btw, I love the name Ystmarhavn, did you make that up? > Thanks, glad you liked it! The "Gaz" for the region does not exist, right now I'm just writing up a series of academic ponderings on what happened in northern Alphatia (ignored in most supplements), and adding a few ideas that I hope will spice up your campaigns. As of now, there are only the writings on Argonath and Ilmaryll, but one on Ystmarhavn is in the works... Glad you like the name! :-) Yes, I thought up that name on my own - sounds kinda Nordic - does it mean anything, BTW, or is it just "something-haven"? Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:23:03 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Wives and Pesants > the richest lands in the Known World. And I don't think she's satisfied. > Not saying she doesn't love the lug but in her own way, she's helping him > out like a wife should. Vanya could learn a few tricks from this gal. > Finally someone realizes who that slob, Stefan, owes all his good fortune to 8-) > Get > Ericall a woman that has everything he doesn't in terms of ability to rule > and he won't ever have to worry about learning the tough lessons. And best > of all, the people will love him and his bride can sit back and count the > wealth ;> > Well, not just the wealth. Someone has to be the responsible adult who governs the realm while others are off having fun slaughtering dragons and opressing the pesants, you know. "help, help, I'm being repressed! Now you see the violence inherent in the system! Come and see the violence inherant in the system!" (wish I still remembered that whole scene, IMO, probably the best scene in the movie, and I'm a reactionary, imperialistic, conservative autocrat, so. . .speaking of which, where's Rob lately?) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:23:29 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Mystara's "forces beside the Throne" > > Maybe the Immortals will see your sacrilege and put you beyond the help of > Viagra. How's that for provocative? ;> > Viagra? Is that a new Immortal? (the Immortal of fertility and what not, right? Been looking to see if we can add Heirodules & temple prostitution to Mystara, have you? 8-)~ (btw, gives new meanings to the title of this thread, too. . .) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:46:34 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Wives and Pesants James, here's what I remember of the scene: Dennis the Peasant: "And how'd you get there, eh? By exploiting the workers! By hanging on to outdated imperialist dogma, which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society! If there's ever going to be any change..." ****** Dennis the Peasant: "What? You think you're king just because some watery tart lobbed a sword at you!?!" ****** Dennis: "Strange women lying around in ponds, distributing swords to people is no basis for a system of government! Supreme executive power lies with a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!" Arthur tries to interrrupt. Dennis: "I mean, if I went around calling myself an emperor, just because some moistened b__ch lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd lock me away!" Arthur: "Bloody peasant!" *grabs Dennis* Dennis: "Now we see the violence inherent in the system.." Arthur: "Shut up, you stupid peasant!" *shakes Dennis harder* Dennis: "Come see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help, I'm being repressed! Now you see the violence inherent in the system!" *Arthur lets him go* Dennis: "You see that? You see what he did?..." *fade to black* Apologies to those who read this and weren't interested. Personally, I can recite the entire exchange between Arthur and the Black Knight (my favourite scene)... ;-) "'Tis buit a scratch!" "A scratch? Your arm's off!" "No it isn't!" "Look!" "I've had worse." "You liar!" "Have at you!" Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #658 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, September 30 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 659 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Wives and Pesants Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Mystara's "forces beside the Throne" Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - [off topic] My lack of snippage Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - [off topic] My lack of snippage Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Rulership Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - [off topic] My lack of snippage [MYSTARA] - Isle of Dawn Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - [off topic] My lack of snippage Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate [MYSTARA] - Question about polymorphing ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:20:25 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Wives and Pesants At 05:23 PM 9/29/98 -0500, James Ruhland wrote: > >Finally someone realizes who that slob, Stefan, owes all his good fortune >to 8-) Oh, hanging is just too good for you! This has been a Galwylin(r) Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:27:59 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Mystara's "forces beside the Throne" At 05:23 PM 9/29/98 -0500, James Ruhland wrote: > >Viagra? You know, Viagra aka Valerias, Immortal of passion. >Is that a new Immortal? (the Immortal of fertility and what not, >right? Been looking to see if we can add Heirodules & temple prostitution >to Mystara, have you? Well, actually... Heirodules isn't the one that is making it in BTW, if you notice on my list of Immortals for Mystara, I have Freyja listed as concerned with love and human fertility. Bruce pointed out the MMB that should make a very stable marriage. Course, I had to point out that Valerias has passion showing there is a price for stability This has been a Galwylin(r) Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:11:41 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate >Umm. > >+5 +10 is max. And I'm sure any rational DM would shut down the "Anything >i don't like" angle :) Not if the DM wants his/her favorite villian to have an edge, so to speak... "In the beginning, there was darkness, but before there was darkness, there was Frog" - St. Stephen Nicholas Hudson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 19:12:20 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate >Actually by the D&D rules, all spellcasters except for mages would go >through a period of being second class citizens before being promoted to >the aristocracy, as only mages can cast spells at level 1. Clerics and >druids get no spells until 2d level, and paladins and avengers have to be >at least 9th level -- even if they were granted their powers earlier, they >would have no spells until they reached 6th level and thus were the >equivalent of 2d level clerics. And don't forget those halfling Masters, >who have to reach 8th level as fighters before becoming 1st level priests. Yes, you're right. I feel, however, that the "shock" for the paladin/avenger would be greater than for the cleric. Everyone knows that one day the cleric will receive spells, but it's not a given that any fighter will do the same. Though there are fundamental differences between mage and cleric philosophies, I can only imagine they see eye-to-eye much closer than either with a fighter. Also, clerics start off better than fighters under the Alphatian class system, and as they receive spells at 2nd level, they'll be waiting a lot longer than our poor barbarian. >Thanks for the reminder -- it drummed into me just how critical that level >of having no spells is to clerics -- definitely a point to keep in mind for >any AD&D conversion. Yes, at 1st level clerics aren't good for much more than occasionally zappin skeletons. "In the beginning, there was darkness, but before there was darkness, there was Frog" - St. Stephen Nicholas Hudson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 19:38:51 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate >> Hmmm. That could create some serious class problems in Alphatia. >>Under oD&D, you have to be at least 15-th? level to become a paladin >>or avenger. > >I thought in OD&D fighter just need to be of level 9 to become paladin >or avenger (or landed) ... Does your version change this ? Sorry; what I was referring to was that paladin/avenger rules wern't given until the Companion set (sort of like duids not being able to be druids until 9th level; on another note, at 9th level, you're name level: how do you justify to the Immortal you've been serving for years, and who has given you, by this point, at least a church, that you've given up on him/her to go worship dirt?) >> "In the beginning, there was darkness, but before there was >>darkness, there was Frog" - St. Stephen > > " ... when French eated it ... then came darkness" Marcus ;o) HERETIC! HOW DARE YOU IMPINGE ON THE HOLY AMPHIBIAN? CROAK! CROOOAAAAK! "In the beginning, there was darkness, but before there was darkness, there was Frog" - St. Stephen Nicholas Hudson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 19:48:56 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall >> No, you are absolutely right. Ericall is a King >> Arthurish/Halavish/Stephenish figure in CM1 imo. >> >Right, exactly what I said: a nice enough guy, with the intellect of a >small potato, just like Stefan. 8-) So why does Stefan get a utopia the envy of any paradise, and Ericall gets Heldanners? "In the beginning, there was darkness, but before there was darkness, there was Frog" - St. Stephen Nicholas Hudson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 22:59:07 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall In a message dated 1998-09-29 18:45:10 Eastern Daylight Time, galwylin@airnet.net writes: > Oh, I'd say your warning is just a bit late ;> > > The gallows await! Hang em till they're dead and beyond resurrection! ;D Your gallows could get to smelling pretty bad -- by D&D rules, it is possible to resurrect somebody who has been dead for 6 years, 8 months. By AD&D rules the situation is even worse -- in that game system the upper limit is closer to 300 years. You would probably be better off researching a form of execution that immediately destroys the victim so that they cannot be brought back "even via a Wish". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:00:32 EDT From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall In a message dated 9/29/98 1:59:15 PM, you wrote: << Then the empty suits get the credit, while the others are decried (being "tainted" by the methods they used) or simply ignored. >> getting a little too much like the real world . . . does this make it off- topic? ;) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:01:50 EDT From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - [off topic] My lack of snippage In a message dated 9/29/98 2:01:10 PM, the Khan wrote: <<"No horde can be strong enough to fight Microsoft. SIGH!">> Remember, even Blackmoor fell . . . Eventually. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 20:03:32 PDT From: "jeremy powell" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate >> > Yes, at 1st level clerics aren't good for much more than >occasionally zappin skeletons. > > "In the beginning, there was darkness, but before there was >darkness, there was Frog" - St. Stephen > >Nicholas Hudson Yes but what your forgetting is that not only are clerics reasonably good at fighting,the primary goal should be trying to spread the word of their faith. IMC I have magic as a real commodity only about one in ten NPC clerics or priests have the ability to perform miracles(ie,spells) Yours in Conspiracy Count Darsus Gain ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:17:24 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall Nicholas said: > > So why does Stefan get a utopia the envy of any paradise, and >Ericall gets Heldanners? > Impudent wretch! You shall now feel the might of the awesome legions of Vanya! Very soon you will regret those words, and soon the Froggies will swear fealty to Our Gracious Lady! Friedrich von Eisenturm, High Templar of the Holy Knights of St. Wulf :-) All in jest, Your Most Amphibianness Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:19:23 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - [off topic] My lack of snippage >Remember, even Blackmoor fell . . . Eventually. Hmmmm. Could it be that the Great Rain of Fire was in fact caused by a massive Y2K problem due to poor coding in the Blackmoorian version of Windows 98? Maybe Bill Gates is in fact a reigning Hierarch of Entropy? Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 20:33:57 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Rulership I agree with you, James (and I don't know about anyone lese, but I actually like IRL examples). I have one thing to clarify in way of my defense... > OTOH, though, I see absolutely no reason why Ericall couldn't become an >effective ruler after a period of mistakes/bad rule. ...I forgot to mention that MC is about ten years ahead of most everyone else's (if you're in 1015, that is:-). So i suppose we can both be happy with this explanation. Jenn valerya@hotmail.com Valerya@webtv.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ "The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so much as to make settled things strange." (GK Chesterton) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:55:34 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods >>> **Greater Powers** >>> >>> Iliric (CN) >>> Magic >> >>Is he that powerful? Wow. I don't know if folks'll be interested, but I've been working on an untold history for Iliric, in which it turns out he's a lot stronger -- or, at the very least, a LOT older -- than he's given credit for, in the published material (what-little he appears in). Call me crazy, but I think even an Immortal might assume a "secret identity" in front of everyone, if it serves his/her interests ... and the portfolio of "greed, insensitivity, and magical innovation" just SCREAMS "Modrigswerg", to me. ;-) >Not officially, I don't think. But I discovered him in my research and he >fit where I needed him too. I still question if I should have him CN >though and not more lawful since magic works by going by some pretty strict >rules. OTOH, one could argue that magic consists of breaking the physical laws of the mundane universe, and is therefore the "ultimate" act of chaotic rebellion against order. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 22:59:27 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall At 10:59 PM 9/29/98 EDT, Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > >Your gallows could get to smelling pretty bad -- by D&D rules, it is possible >to resurrect somebody who has been dead for 6 years, 8 months. By AD&D >rules the situation is even worse -- in that game system the upper limit is >closer to 300 years. You would probably be better off researching a form of >execution that immediately destroys the victim so that they cannot be brought >back "even via a Wish". Hmm, what about this... we take a pencil and just erase raise dead, resurrection, wish and everything like that from the books? Now lets see how many are willing to face the dragon that none have defeated!! Little different when you removed the training wheels ;D This has been a Galwylin(r) Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:01:21 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - [off topic] My lack of snippage At 11:01 PM 9/29/98 EDT, BoBoII@aol.com wrote: > >In a message dated 9/29/98 2:01:10 PM, the Khan wrote: > ><<"No horde can be strong enough to fight Microsoft. SIGH!">> > >Remember, even Blackmoor fell . . . Eventually. Apparently they installed Microsoft Explorer 4 Ewwww! ;> (Yes, I'm in a good mood :) This has been a Galwylin(r) Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:22:58 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: [MYSTARA] - Isle of Dawn I was looking at the Isle of Dawn and was wondering where everyone thinks it fits in with the Known World region (beyond serving as the field where Thyatis and Alphatia have their wrestling matches (and yes, I think they're fixed too)). I've always stayed away from it (mainly because I had no idea it was there for umpteen years but that's not surprising as Alphatia was a bit of a surprise too). I would think the Heldannics would have interests there, the Northern Reaches would be living life large with raids (well, lets just pretend, okay?), and I know Alphatia is there (it seems to be everywhere. Makes you wish for the days of Atlantis when they sunk an island continent, it didn't keep coming back like a Friday the 13th sequel). I know how Minothrad fits in, Darokan, Glantri, etc. but this one never seemed to connect with me. Am I missing something? I've read the entries on it. I wish Rad's ray gun had bad targeting and had sunk it instead of Alphatia cause its just in the way to me. (Yes, I'm thinking of performing more heresy but I wanted to check and make sure I hadn't overlooked something) This has been a Galwylin(r) Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 00:25:32 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards In a message dated 9/29/98 2:07:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JamugaKhan@gmx.net writes: > No problem! I don't agree to your Randel Gazetteer neither. Too big, too > militaristic, too many soldiers... Otherwise it's really an excellent piece > of work. to each their own. however, the randel gaz did stick with canon sources which had randel as a highly militeristic kingdom boasting a large ratio of troops as compared to other alphatian kingdoms. > > But back to the Grand Council: I indeed had problems to imagine a council > with 1000 wizards level 36. Additionally there were many other spellcasters > in the country. So the idea was born that "mage" means "spellcaster", when > used in a law, and that the Grand Council had clerics and other in their > ranks. > > Imagine 600 wizards, 300 patriarchs, and 100 paladins/avengers, all on > level 36, > and the number is not so incredible as before. the council really should not be toned down. it doesn't really come into ordinary game play. it's a game tool that signifies the magical might of alphatia. castrating the council's "mage-ness" attacks it's imperial character. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:28:54 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods At 11:55 PM 9/29/98 -0400, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: >>>> Iliric (CN) > >I don't know if folks'll be interested, but I've been working on an untold >history for Iliric, in which it turns out he's a lot stronger -- or, at the >very least, a LOT older -- than he's given credit for, in the published >material (what-little he appears in). Call me crazy, but I think even an >Immortal might assume a "secret identity" in front of everyone, if it >serves his/her interests ... and the portfolio of "greed, insensitivity, >and magical innovation" just SCREAMS "Modrigswerg", to me. ;-) I think I was giving greed to someone else but I'd love to hear your ideas. This Immortal is practically brand new to me. Modrigswerg isn't familiar to me (so many worlds and too many gods!). Maybe where's he mentioned as I probably read over him and forgot. >OTOH, one could argue that magic consists of breaking the physical laws of >the mundane universe, and is therefore the "ultimate" act of chaotic >rebellion against order. Excellent point. And one that I think fits the 'mortals observing the universe' way I was trying to approach. This has been a Galwylin(r) Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 21:30:55 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - [off topic] My lack of snippage >Maybe Bill Gates is in fact a reigning Hierarch of Entropy? This is absolutely hysterical, considering the added irony that I'm reading this on his hotmail on his webtv...But I surely didn't intend for this to stay off-topic for so long...Apologies... Jenn valerya@hotmail.com Valerya@webtv.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ "The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so much as to make settled things strange." (GK Chesterton) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 02:33:26 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods >> Call me crazy, but I think even an >>Immortal might assume a "secret identity" in front of everyone, if it >>serves his/her interests ... and the portfolio of "greed, insensitivity, >>and magical innovation" just SCREAMS "Modrigswerg", to me. ;-) > >I think I was giving greed to someone else but I'd love to hear your ideas. > This Immortal is practically brand new to me. Modrigswerg isn't familiar >to me (so many worlds and too many gods!). Maybe where's he mentioned as I >probably read over him and forgot. Modrigswerg are the Gaz7 Moulder Dwarves ... although I agree; there's SOOO many gods and Immortals, it's hard to keep their names straight! ;-) My theory for Iliric is that he was a moulder dwarf who attained Immortality without the other Immortals finding out about it (it's a loooong story, how he managed THAT little trick...! ;-D), and had kept himself and his powers hidden from Pandius for a few thousand years, until more recent events forced him to come out of hiding. Rather than reveal he'd been around for so long -- and had been plotting behind so many other Immortals' backs, in the meantime! -- he posed as a newly-Immortal human mage: the "Iliric" from the IM-module's roster of pre-generated characters. That's why he took pains to "petition" several different sponsers, in his mortal guise, before "coming out of the closet" as an Immortal (Iliric had supposedly failed three times, before attaining Immortality in the Sphere of Energy); it means that each of those three Energy-Immortals he'd petitioned just assumes one of the others finally gave in, and elevated the mule-headed little so-and-so. :-) I figured, with all the Immortals' plots and secrets that got exposed/revealed/disrupted in WotI, it was reasonable to assume that at least ONE of them has fooled other Immortals, on previous occassions, and in regards to matters that aren't directly related to "Wrath". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 02:53:41 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall In a message dated 1998-09-30 01:34:13 Eastern Daylight Time, dr_bombastic@hotmail.com writes: > So why does Stefan get a utopia the envy of any paradise, and > Ericall gets Heldanners? Because Stefan's problems are meant to be dealt with by adventurers of levels 1-3, while Ericall's problems require those of adventurers of level 15+. So it seems that all that is needed to make Karameikos a bit more "interesting" is for some Immortal to cast the old "Move 1st Level PC Starting Area" spell to move that area from Karameikos to somewhere else. Any suggestions as to where? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:17:47 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards >>as far as i know the Grand Council is exclusively 36th level magic users. the only thing i have seen to the contrary is JamugaKhan's version of the Council, where he includes paladins, clerics, avengers, rangers, etc. it's good work but i disagreed with it when first sent it to me and i disagree with it now.<< to quote canon: "every user of magic who acheives ultimate mastery (36 level) can be on the council- though not every one is, because the number of counselors is limited to 1000" (players guide to Alphatia page 6) to me this implies that the council member has to be an ultimate power in magic (mage or clerical) meaning 36 level cleric/mage avengers and paladins of 36 level are only 12 level "weilders of magic" so theyre out. As I mentioned times before I always hated the overpowering of the alph council so IMC they are 9lvl minimum and only magic users (though many are 20+ and 30+). BTW did you know I sunk Alphatia IMC before I even knew it will be canon it WotI ?! maybe I am a Yavy seer... Or not. Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:45:19 +0200 (METDST) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate On Tue, 29 Sep 1998, Nicholas Hudson wrote: > > Sorry; what I was referring to was that paladin/avenger rules > wern't given until the Companion set (sort of like duids not being able > to be druids until 9th level; on another note, at 9th level, you're name > level: how do you justify to the Immortal you've been serving for years, > and who has given you, by this point, at least a church, that you've > given up on him/her to go worship dirt?) > Quite illogical, yes. However, I remember low-level "followers of the druidic way" (with full druidic powers and hindrances) in Ierendi Gazeteer. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:55:43 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Question about polymorphing Hi everyone! Yesterday a strange thought occurred to me regarding Polymorph self spell. If you remember, it states that the caster can polymorph himself into another race/class, BUT he will be a 1st level member of that class (ex: a 9th levl mage can become an elf, but will be a 1st lvl elf). Now, regarding dragons, what do you think: can a mage become a huge dragon or only a small one. Normally the spell states that he can polymorph into any creature that does not exceed the caster's HD, so it would be possible for a 16th level mage to become a huge white dragon. However, we all know that dragons start with a certain number of HD and reach mature form as per small dragons statistics. The other forms are "exalted levels" each dragon can attain with age (and I guess with experience). So technically if it's true that mage can only become 1st levl elves, then they should be allowed to polymorph only in small dragons (that's to say "basic levl " dragons). The same applies for other creatures treated in a similar way (those in Creature crucibles..) Am I wrong here? Also, how would you treat a mage who wants to polymorph into a race that gains powers with age cathegories (example a vampire)? I'd say in this case he cannot polymorph into a being older than his own age... but what about Shapechange?.. Sorry if I created confusion in your mind, but I hope you'll help me figure this out before my players can think of this loophole and exploit it.. :) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #659 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, October 1 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 660 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate [MYSTARA] - Revised Karameikan Timeline Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of the Northern Reaches Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos (Now "Long lifespans") Re: [MYSTARA] - [OFF TOPIC] resend - IT'S A BOY!!! [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Harold Johnson Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia against the Multiverse! Re: [MYSTARA] - [OFF TOPIC] resend - IT'S A BOY!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Harold Johnson Re: [MYSTARA] - [OFF TOPIC] IT'S A BOY!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - [off topic] My lack of snippage [MYSTARA] - Vanya Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - [off topic] My lack of snippage Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:Short years (was: - Karameikos) Re: [MYSTARA] - Vanya Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:Short years (was: - Karameikos) Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:Short years (was: - Karameikos) Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia against the Multiverse! Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Harold Johnson ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 08:59:14 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate Immortals hadn't really been formalized yet, besides, there was still the idea of clerics worshipping either immortals, or philosophy (alignment or whatever). Agathokles wrote: > > On Tue, 29 Sep 1998, Nicholas Hudson wrote: > > > > > Sorry; what I was referring to was that paladin/avenger rules > > wern't given until the Companion set (sort of like duids not being able > > to be druids until 9th level; on another note, at 9th level, you're name > > level: how do you justify to the Immortal you've been serving for years, > > and who has given you, by this point, at least a church, that you've > > given up on him/her to go worship dirt?) > > > > Quite illogical, yes. However, I remember low-level "followers of the > druidic way" (with full druidic powers and hindrances) in Ierendi > Gazeteer. > > Giampaolo Agosta > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 08:55:11 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: [MYSTARA] - Revised Karameikan Timeline Yes, more on the glorious kingdom of Karameikos! This is a small snippet of history that I've rewritten for Karameikos. I've changed a few times of certain events but have kept with current canon pretty well (so far). Any holes or misnamed references (Thyatian governor and Legion, perhaps) pointed out would be appreciated. AC 948 Stefan Karameikos III born. AC 970 Stefan Karameikos III named governor of Traladaran region and sent to quell the Marilenev Rebellion with a Thyatian Legion. Roads are built to facilitate Thyatian military movements. AC 971 Marilenev Rebellion crushed. Stefan Karameikos III named duke of newly formed Duchy of Traladara. Thyatian officiers awarded Traladaran lands and titles. AC 979 Stefan and marries Lady Olivia Prothemian. AC 980 Adriana Karameikos born. AC 982 Justin Karameikos born. AC 986 Valen Karameikos born. AC 1005 Known World at war. AC 1006 Karameikos declares independence from Thyatis naming himself king and the Duchy of Traladara as the kingdom of Karameikos. This has been a Galwylin(r) Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 21:13:43 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos >Agreed -- especially since there is no real interaction between Mystara and >the real world. On the other hand, I always pictured Laterre in the It would probably be easiest to assume that Mystaran days are the same length as ours, and Mystarans simply age faster. Additionally, this might explain the unusually old ages of the Glantrians who came from Laterre (Ambrevilles and McGregors) - they age by "normal Earth" rate, thus making them longer-lived than Mystarans. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:13:25 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of the Northern Reaches > > So it seems that all that is needed to make Karameikos a bit more > "interesting" > is for some Immortal to cast the old "Move 1st Level PC Starting Area" spell > to > move that area from Karameikos to somewhere else. Any suggestions as to > where? > Northern reaches. Idonno if this holds true for everyone (especially since I started playing while living in an area populated by lots of Norwegian and German types), but from my experience lots of begining gamers (and even some who've played for awhile) are attracted to the whole "norse barbarian" schtick, bashing monsters a la Thor et al. Plus, the place is pretty basic/straightforward, and doesn't (otherwise) get a lot of play in Mystara. Soderfjord might be a good starting place, unless you simply *must* have a King available to dole out missions, in which case Vestland would be good. Then, once they've bashed for a good long time, you can show 'em the rest of the world. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:36:03 +0200 (METDST) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos (Now "Long lifespans") On Tue, 29 Sep 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: > > It would probably be easiest to assume that Mystaran days are the same >length as ours, and Mystarans simply age faster. Additionally, this might >explain the unusually old ages of the Glantrians who came from Laterre >(Ambrevilles and McGregors) - they age by "normal Earth" rate, thus >making them longer-lived than Mystarans. > > They are probably extending their lifespan through magic; the d'Ambervilles don't even care of not having children, which should threaten their dynasty, even if in a far future (in mystaran time). As someone said Mystarans are long-lived themselves, in comparison with middle age RW people. So the idea of short year is still my preferred. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 08:48:17 -0700 From: harold@grid.wizards.com (Harold Johnson) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [OFF TOPIC] resend - IT'S A BOY!!! Jenni, Congratulations! Get lots of rest. I know having a baby is fairly exhausting, and sleep is a premium for the first month and a half. Harold *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:00:12 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Harold Johnson I recently picked up Dragon issue 252. Inside I found a picture of one Harold Johnson. He didn't look as weird as I'd expected ;) Sorry Harold, nice to know what people in the industry look like. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:04:44 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia against the Multiverse! On Tue, 29 Sep 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: > As of now, there are only the writings on Argonath and Ilmaryll, but one > on Ystmarhavn is in the works... Cool :) > Glad you like the name! :-) Yes, I thought up that name on my own - sounds > kinda Nordic - does it mean anything, BTW, or is it just "something-haven"? Not really. But, I was thinking "Yst" is a corruption of Øst/Öst which means east and "mar" could be french..err averoignian mare(spl)=sea. So Ytsmarhavn would be the Haven of the Eastern Sea....:D Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:11:50 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [OFF TOPIC] resend - IT'S A BOY!!! On Sat, 26 Sep 1998, Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: > Yes, my little one was born on Monday, September 21st at 8:31am and > weighed in at 6lbs, 3oz (approx. 2610g). His name is Nathan Stafford > Merrifield. Stafford? Any relation to Greg Stafford? Again..congrats. Håvard, whose experience with babies is limited to being one a long time ago. *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:24:40 -0700 From: harold@grid.wizards.com (Harold Johnson) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Harold Johnson Hey! I haven't seen that issue yet! I hope the picture does me justice. Am I wearing "The Hat?" Harold *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:57:02 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [OFF TOPIC] IT'S A BOY!!! Sharon and others: At 10:38 PM 9/28/98 -0400, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: >> Yes, my little one was born on Monday, September 21st at 8:31am and >>weighed in at 6lbs, 3oz (approx. 2610g). His name is Nathan Stafford >>Merrifield. > >Hooray! Congratulations, Jenni! :-) > >Let us know where to send baby Nathan his first set of plush-toy polyhedral >dice, okay...? Hey, if you can find some, I'm sure he'd love to sog them to death until he was capable of being more clear on the concept.... ;-) So, the required address is: #906 - 3771 Bartlett Court Burnaby, BC CANADA, V3J 7G8 Jenni - -=> strawberryMOM <=- - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things I *like*!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:15:07 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards > to quote canon: "every user of magic who acheives ultimate mastery (36 level) can be on the council- though not every one is, because the number of counselors is limited to 1000" (players guide to Alphatia page 6) This is a good point: paladins, avengers and elves (unless alternative rules from the GAZs are used) cannot reach 36th level of spell use mastery. It is a different concept from experience level: paladins and avengers gain magical levels from level 9 onwards a a different rate, so they will never reach 36th level of magic use, i.e. 9 spells of each level of power. If we take the thing a bit stingy, clerics won´t either, because there are no clerical spells beyond 7th level, a fact which puts them at quantitative inferiority according to magic use (they have other qualities to compensate, like armour and better combat abilities), so IMO and IMC the Council is open to 36th lvl MUs only, although, as I have stated in previous messages, it would be rare to find 1000 members (or even a close number) in historical Alphatia. Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:07:49 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [off topic] My lack of snippage > Ethengar vs Glantri? Thyatis vs Alphatia? Feel my wrath! > > Bill "the better Khan" Gates Do you know that there are PCs in heaven, running under Windows NT? And now Bill Gates is commanded for debugging. "There and crash down, for the mighty Gates' Word is running!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:18:48 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Vanya > Vanya could learn a few tricks from this gal. Vanya SHOULD learn a few tricks from nearly everybody. Be honest, she is agood warrior, an energetic personality and she looks good, but she is very stupid. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:27:42 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - [off topic] My lack of snippage > Hmmmm. Could it be that the Great Rain of Fire was in fact caused by a > massive Y2K problem due to poor coding in the Blackmoorian version of > Windows 98? > > Maybe Bill Gates is in fact a reigning Hierarch of Entropy? > > Geoff > > -- > Geoff Gander, BA 97 > Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon > Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog Hm, was Y'hog the name of your church or of the immortal? Is the Church of Y'hog the church of the evil Hierarch of Entropy, Bill Gates? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:35:55 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards > > But back to the Grand Council: I indeed had problems to imagine a council > > with 1000 wizards level 36. Additionally there were many other spellcasters > > in the country. So the idea was born that "mage" means "spellcaster", when > > used in a law, and that the Grand Council had clerics and other in their > > ranks. > > > > Imagine 600 wizards, 300 patriarchs, and 100 paladins/avengers, all on > > level 36, > > and the number is not so incredible as before. > > the council really should not be toned down. it doesn't really come into > ordinary game play. it's a game tool that signifies the magical might of > alphatia. castrating the council's "mage-ness" attacks it's imperial > character. OTOH a cleric 36 or a paladin 36 is a devastating force too. O.k., I imagine that in Old Alphatia there were no spellcasting fighters, even no clerics. The laws about nobility and the Grand Council were written, and it was apparently that "mage" was everybody who could cast spells. After entering Mystara, the Alphatians say their magical powers decreased but they found the clerical option. Instead of changing the law or the definition of "mage" they simply stated that clerics would get same rights as magic-users. Later the same was true for paladins and avengers. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 20:06:08 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall At 01.16 29/09/98 -0500, James Ruhland wrote: > If Ericall was a intelligent, competent ruler, then the scope of >authority/decision making/creativity for the PCs in the Norwold-centered >modules would have been restricted. But he was a nice guy, I suppose. A >Stefan of the North, I guess. Yes, IMO "Stefan of the North" fits very well for Ericall. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 15:31:43 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:Short years (was: - Karameikos) At 15.09 28/09/98 -0400, Geoff Gander wrote: >As for movement rates, sure, moving 120' in ten minutes is kinda slow, but >them we're assuming that, as adventurers, the PCs are carefully moving >down corridors, looking around corners, testing the floor for pressure >plates, and pausing now and then to listen. Ok, but what about outdoor movement rate? In a outdoor/wilderness setting you move 3 times faster than in a dungeon, i.e. 360' in ten minutes. That's still quite slow and you're not looking around corners, testing the floor... Note, here I'm not considering the long daily movement, but the movement rate in a city or during out-of-dungeon adventures (including, for example, those in the SE or Broken Lands tunnels). IMO the "per turn" movement is often not consistent with the "per round" and "per day" ones. Anyway I (and my players) usually don't care and follow the rules. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:23:53 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Vanya At 07:18 PM 9/30/98 +0200, Jamuga Khan wrote: > >Vanya SHOULD learn a few tricks from nearly everybody. > >Be honest, she is agood warrior, an energetic personality and she looks >good, but she is very stupid. ROFL!! I like the way you did that Jamuga. Compliment, compliment, compliment, BAM!! This has been a Galwylin(r) Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:10:57 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:Short years (was: - Karameikos) Then again, you have to time a guy wearing full plate and all the regalia before you can truly judge the movement rate... At 03:31 PM 9/30/98 +0200, you wrote: >At 15.09 28/09/98 -0400, Geoff Gander wrote: > >>As for movement rates, sure, moving 120' in ten minutes is kinda slow, but >>them we're assuming that, as adventurers, the PCs are carefully moving >>down corridors, looking around corners, testing the floor for pressure >>plates, and pausing now and then to listen. > >Ok, but what about outdoor movement rate? >In a outdoor/wilderness setting you move 3 times faster than in a dungeon, >i.e. 360' in ten minutes. That's still quite slow and you're not looking >around corners, testing the floor... > >Note, here I'm not considering the long daily movement, but the movement >rate in a city or during out-of-dungeon adventures (including, for example, >those in the SE or Broken Lands tunnels). >IMO the "per turn" movement is often not consistent with the "per round" >and "per day" ones. >Anyway I (and my players) usually don't care and follow the rules. >************** >Fabrizio Paoli >brizio@lunet.it >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 >************** >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:10:40 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall >Impudent wretch! You shall now feel the might of the awesome legions of Vanya! Very soon you will regret those words, and soon the Froggies will swear fealty to Our Gracious Lady! > >Friedrich von Eisenturm, High Templar of the Holy Knights of St. Wulf "And a new vision entered unto mine sight: I Beheld the Lioness, stalking the plains with a proud and uproarious mane. Her eyes were black as soot, and she carried upon her feet the charnel of a hundred battles, and she spoke the men of the holds, saying: Laok thae rewos nestai fneskos ysmarvae, which, being interpreted, is: I come bring war to the earth, for in war is only found truth. And the men of the holds fell before her, crying out, Who is there that is like unto the Mighty Lioness? But pride cometh before the fall, and there came from deep sky and deep earth a sound like unto a croak, and the men of the holds beheld as a vast pink member, slick like water, swooped from the sky, enrapturing the Lioness and carrying her away." - Liber ex Heptatia, III, v.2-10 (circa 1020? BC, author unknown) "In the beginning, there was darkness, but before there was darkness, there was Frog" - St. Stephen Nicholas Hudson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 20:59:11 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos In a message dated 1998-09-30 11:08:39 Eastern Daylight Time, solmyr@kolumbus.fi writes: > Additionally, this might explain the unusually old ages of the Glantrians > who came from Laterre (Ambrevilles and McGregors) - they age by "normal Earth" > rate, thus making them longer-lived than Mystarans. Not really -- the d'Ambrevilles, in particular, are way too old for the 10% difference at most to account for their great ages. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:59:25 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:Short years (was: - Karameikos) Daly Wrote: >Then again, you have to time a guy wearing full plate and all the regalia >before you can truly judge the movement rate... Actually, the movement rates take armor into account slowing a character that much more. Longer periods take into account required rest breaks so they won't make a direct conversion from short to long-term figures. IMO there is definitely a problem with the movement rates though. Take a person walking an average of 2.5 mph. Military marching is at a pace of 2 steps (36" per second) this makes 6 fps, or about 4 mph. Average jogging is about 7.5 mph (while a double-time is 8 mph), and running rates tend to be right around 12-15 mph. with a sprint going upwards of 25 mph. This would allow a character, on a charging attack for instance, to cover 2200' in a single round. Move and attack allows 1/2 your movement rate which is 180' per minute outdoors- that's a whopping walk of 3' per second. To equate this speed take 1 step per second. IE. pace yourself to cross say a distance of 10' in 10 seconds. You'll find how incredibly slow this is. Add heavy encumbrance and you move somewhere around 9 inches (real world not AD&D scale) per second, taking you roughly 13 seconds to cross that room. Oh, a travel rate of 24 miles per day isn't bad though- they got that about right figuring full packs, and healthy experienced hikers. But then again- so much for frail mages. Later. Jesse. vanquer@softhome.net ICQ. 8004143 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 01:09:40 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia against the Multiverse! >Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:04:44 +0200 (CEST) >From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= >"mar" could be french..err averoignian mare(spl)=3Dsea. So Well exactly "mar" is nothing in French, "mare" is a very little lake (where you'll find ducks, frogs ...) but in latin "mare" means sea ... in French sea is "mer" ... enjoy the lesson ;o) Friendly Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT à mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 10:24:49 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Harold Johnson On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Harold Johnson wrote: > Hey! I haven't seen that issue yet! I hope the picture does me justice. > Am I wearing "The Hat?" I'm afraid there is no hat there (what hat? :). Its a picture of the people involved with the Marvel Game. Hmm..maybe I'll buy that after all, now that I know that it has been touched by the hands of a Mystaran... :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #660 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, October 1 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 661 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Entropy Triumphant? [MYSTARA] - von Drachenfels, part ? Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology: Sturmgeshutz and Sorcery Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia against the Multiverse! Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods Re: [MYSTARA] - [off topic] My lack of snippage Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of the Northern Reaches Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of the Northern Reaches Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of the Northern Reaches Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of the Northern Reaches Re: [MYSTARA] - St. Stefan RE: [MYSTARA] - Re:Short years (was: - Karameikos) Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about polymorphing Re: [MYSTARA] - St. Stefan Re: [MYSTARA] - St. Stefan Re: [MYSTARA] - St. Stefan Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - [off topic] My lack of snippage Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall RE: [MYSTARA] - St. Stefan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 04:13:11 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Entropy Triumphant? >Remember, Thanatos was BELOW Nyx in power for Millenia before WoTI. Point is since he`s now out in the open is he engaged in an endgame for total destruction? Sorry this is so late as I`ve been out of the office for the last two weeks apart from flying visits ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:21:18 +0300 (EET DST) From: Harri M{ki Subject: [MYSTARA] - von Drachenfels, part ? Albrecht von Drachenfels Albrecht was 27-years-old when he followed his father. He was tall and lean, some would even say handsome yonug man. He was more intelligent than his father and definetly better magician. He was outgoing sociliate, who had get his education in the Great School in Glantri City. He liked parties and good company and took friends easily. His great-uncle Friedrich had send him to school to learn from the best possible teacher Etienne d'Ambreville. In his time at school he also befriended prince Fernando de Belcadiz and young Filippo di Sfonti, who was 12-years younger than he. Old elf-prince liked easygoing aalbanese and taught him some basics of elven magic. Albrecht was also success in City's social life, he was quite a lady's man. He also met his future wife Selena Aendyr, cousin of Prince Pelagiri Aendyr, in the City. They were married in 893. In 902 Albrecht was elected as a Chancellor of the Princes after death of Willem Vlaardoen IV. His election was due mostly for the support of Fernando de Belcadiz, who had been selected as Grandmaster after disappearance of the d'Ambrevilles. Albrecht was a great success also in this position. Foreign ambassadors liked him and his parties. Most dramatic happening during his term was the dealings with the Darokin in 920-21. After hard negotiations there was signed economic agreement with Darokin in 920. Then in early 921 Glantri's ambassador to Darokin began hear rumours about bribing of some high-position Glantrian official during negotiations. Investigations reveal that Treasurer of the Council Owain Aendyr was taken heavy bribes from some Darokinian merchants for his support, it was also revealed that he has pocketed also money from the treasury. Owain was promptly removed from the Treasury in disgrace. This also broke relations between Albrecht and his wifes relatives in Blackhill. Besides this his life was pretty eventless. He partied in the Glantri City, mostly with Filippo di Sfonti, who had become Prince of Caurenze in 912 after his brothers murder. Albrecht died in 940 at the age of 70. He had been prince for 43 years and was deeply sorrowed by common Aalbanese. hihama@uta.fi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 04:40:46 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Technology: Sturmgeshutz and Sorcery BTW did this invasion, as it turned into, have Immortal backing? If not then expect a few titans to arrive and use some TP to make all your saves 21+. IIrc wasn`t there someting in AD&D 1st about tech cultures having no immunities to magic? Even if your elite troops are 20th level they can`t save for anything. Technomagic cultures are what`s really scary. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 13:48:54 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia against the Multiverse! On Thu, 1 Oct 1998, GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine wrote: > Well exactly "mar" is nothing in French, "mare" is a very little lake > (where you'll find ducks, frogs ...) but in latin "mare" means sea ... > in French sea is "mer" ... > enjoy the lesson ;o) Thanks Marc! It was probably the lating word I was thinking about. I know very litle french and though I recognize some words, the spelling seems impossible to fathom. ;) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 05:19:46 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate (witness my post a week or so back >on that scandalous Aleena Halaran!). Not to rain on your parade but I mentioned this a couple of months ago and probably wasn`t the first. We want NEW slander not a rehash <;-P ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:09:26 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods On Tue, 29 Sep 1998, Galwylin wrote: > At 02:25 PM 9/25/98 +0200, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > > > >Hi Timothy, where have you been? :) > > Buried in work, I'm afraid. I am surprised. No one seemed to remember my > real name even when I had changed my email identity :) Well, I guess I just spend too much time reading mml mails.. ;) > >Those theories about the demihumans are cool, though really unmystaraic. > >Why did you use that? > > Well, the short answer is that I don't think Mystara is returning to the > shelves. I saw this as a chance to do a homegrown campaign setting without > having to detail maps and NPCs. Just change what I didn't like and keep > what I did. Still more work than I have time for though. I'm tackling the > timeline next ;> That is a good idea. I'm doing something similar myself, though at a smaller scale. My campaign looks very much like canon mystara when you look at the big picture, but I love to toss in little details that makes it different. > >> **Greater Powers** > >> > >> Iliric (CN) > >> Magic > > > >Is he that powerful? Wow. > > Not officially, I don't think. But I discovered him in my research and he > fit where I needed him too. I still question if I should have him CN > though and not more lawful since magic works by going by some pretty strict > rules. This ios interesting. I have always wanted a god of magic, and Rad didnt seem to fit that role very well actually. > >> Forseti (LG) (also known as Forsetta) > >> Justice > > > >Im working on this one. IMC Forseti=Baldur so that would mean he is also > >Mercy, beauty, innocence.. > > I think Forseti has mercy too (or I've just been looking through so many > books on gods that they are starting to blend). I found him in the On > Hallow Ground book for Planescape. Made the connection with Forsetta and > tada. I really thought about bringing in the whole Norse pantheon from > that book but I wanted more cultures represented but not an armful of gods > that have the same areas of concern. Forseti/Forsetta is a Frisian god. He was believed to be the son of Baldur/Balder. IMC I'm simply making him Balder. > >> Raiden (NE) > >> Lightning, Fletcher > > > >Mortal Kombat? Have you developed this guy further? Where is he > >worshipped? > > Another surprise for me because I never knew there really was a god by that > name. I think this will be one of those Immortals the people of Ochalea > have given (though I'm sure they would rather not be known for that). I > have imagine specialty priests that are able to cast lightning bolt and > teleport all with the flair from the movie. I like the alignment very much > for him. I dont know if I should openly admit that I saw that movie... Christopher Lambert is cool though. (Especially in Highlander I) > >> Thor (CG) > >> Honor, Storms, Thunder, Weather > > > >Thor was actually very popular among farmers in Norway. He was worshipped > >to ensure good harvests.. > I think I saw something where he was connected to agricultural aspects of > life. I'll have to include that. More historical info. Thor was much more popular than Odin in Norway. Odin was seen as the God of kings and rulers, and the farmers of Norway couldn't care less about such people. Thor OTOH represented the individualist, the warrior and all that. He earned his respect. > >> **Lesser Powers** > > > >> Untamo (N) > >> Dreams > > > >Would this be the same as Oneiros, the guy I developed along with the > >Dreaming-project? (If you remember that one?) > > Afraid I don't remember that. How long has it been? I know very recent > things have just past me by and I have a memory that is practically useless > ;) Untamo is over sleep and dreams. Dreams is what I was looking for and > this is the only one I found. There is some info on www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc/dreaming.html Basically Oneiros is the Immortal of Dreams. I picture him as an Eternal or Hierarch of Thought. The main source of inspiration is Morpheus from Neil Gaimans' Sandman. > >All in all alot of good ideas, and a lot of strange ideas too :) > > Thanks for both. I hope they're good and if they do seem strange, look > where they came from ;> :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 08:36:38 EDT From: RISPEN@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [off topic] My lack of snippage <<<<"No horde can be strong enough to fight Microsoft. SIGH!">> Remember, even Blackmoor fell . . . Eventually.>> Heres hoping that Microsoft doesn't take us all out when they do got down. : ) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:55:20 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of the Northern Reaches >Northern reaches. > Then, once they've bashed for a good long time, you can show 'em the rest >of the world. > But one also has to take into account what is there available to bash. While there are kobolds in Soderfjord, and some gnolls for PCs who've played a bit, there are also trolls and giants, not exactly your 1st-level PC opponents. Not to mention all those rival clans and savage berserkers. So being a beginner in the Northern Reaches might be a bit dangerous. I think Darokin could offer a relatively suitable location for beginners. It's mostly safe even for weak PCs, but has both wilderness bashes (humanoids around Corunglain and the Orclands, Malpheggi Swamp for medium-level PCs), dungeon crawls (various ruined towns and forts, plus any number of dungeons in the borderlands), as well as big city adventures if they strike your fancy. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 12:31:10 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of the Northern Reaches > > >Northern reaches. > > > Then, once they've bashed for a good long time, you can show 'em the rest > >of the world. > > > But one also has to take into account what is there available to bash. While there are kobolds in Soderfjord, and some gnolls for PCs who've played a bit, there are also trolls and giants, not exactly your 1st-level PC opponents. Not to mention all those rival clans and savage berserkers. So being a beginner in the Northern Reaches might be a bit dangerous. > Well, theoretically (based on Trail Maps and other references) there are Trogs and Bigguns in Karameikos, too. It is sort of up to the DM to know what to throw at players, in any domain. IMO, you don't say "well, their are giants in this nation, so I'll have a gang of 'em attack the PCs" if the PCs are at 3rd level. Then as the PCs advance, you can throw the bigger threats at 'em. IMO, you can do that in Stefanland as well. The idea that the "Kingdom of Adventure" has only kobolds and goblins with which to challenge the players was, IMO, a weak argument made primarily because the fans of Stefan know that *he* can't handle anything more challenging than a kobold armed bearing a board with a nail stuck through it. PCs, IMO, are made of sterner stuff, irregardless of where they are based. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:17:58 EDT From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of the Northern Reaches In a message dated 98-10-01 13:08:00 EDT, you write: << I think Darokin could offer a relatively suitable location for beginners. >> Maybe a nice place for the first big, overland trip. Culture clash! Now you've got burly Northmen wandering around, making fun of Darokin dandies till someone shows them the business end of a rapier. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:21:07 EDT From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of the Northern Reaches In a message dated 98-10-01 13:08:00 EDT, you write: << So being a beginner in the Northern Reaches might be a bit dangerous. >> One thing I try to do with my players is start their conflicts off against other men/elces, etc. Then the introduction of any "monster has real punch. One thing I really liked about this Gaz. was the traits for personality/reputation, with modifiers for class and nationality . . . though due to order, it doesn't cover later Gaz nations. Anyone who is familiar with this have suggestions for national modifiers on some of the places this list has covered since NR was published *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 11:58:29 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - St. Stefan >The idea that the "Kingdom of Adventure" >has only kobolds and goblins with which to challenge the players was, IMO, >a weak argument made primarily because the fans of Stefan know that *he* >can't handle anything more challenging than a kobold armed bearing a board >with a nail stuck through it. PCs, IMO, are made of sterner stuff, >irregardless of where they are based. Now, now, James, you know this is going to make them drag out the "He fended off an assassin in his own bedroom" thing. Personally, I'll place THAT one in the realm of propaganda: Note that it didn't say what condition the intruder was in; my guess is that he was a drooling wonder who got lucky enough to sneak past the bodyguards. A "real" assassin would have been much more challenging than your hypothetical kobold! 8-)~ Jenn valerya@hotmail.com Valerya@webtv.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ "The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so much as to make settled things strange." (GK Chesterton) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 13:02:53 -0700 From: "Harvey, MichaelX" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Re:Short years (was: - Karameikos) On Wednesday, September 30, 1998 6:59 PM, Jesse LaBranche [SMTP:vanquer@softhome.net] wrote: > Daly Wrote: > >Then again, you have to time a guy wearing full plate and all the > >regalia before you can truly judge the movement rate... > > Actually, the movement rates take armor into account slowing a > character that much more. Longer periods take into account required > rest breaks so they won't make a direct conversion from short to > long-term figures. IMO there is definitely a problem with the > movement rates though. > > Take a person walking an average of 2.5 mph. Military marching is > at a pace of 2 steps (36" per second) this makes 6 fps, or about > 4 mph. Average jogging is about 7.5 mph (while a double-time is > 8 mph), and running rates tend to be right around 12-15 mph. with > a sprint going upwards of 25 mph. This would allow a character, on > a charging attack for instance, to cover 2200' in a single round. A combat round in D&D is 10 seconds, so: Velocity Round Sprint 25 MPH 366' (122 yd) Run 12 MPH 176' Jog 7.5 MPH 110' March 4 MPH 59' Walk 2.5 MPH 36' A movement rate of 12" is either a fast jog indoors (120'/round) or a sprint outdoors (120 yd/round). Sounds about right to me... Of course movement per turn is really wacky, since a turn is 100 times longer than a round! However I agree that AD&D's movement rates are screwed up. :-) Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 22:44:39 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question about polymorphing At 14.55 30/09/98 +0200, DM wrote: >Hi everyone! >So technically if it's true that mage can only become 1st levl elves, then >they should be allowed to polymorph only in small dragons (that's to say >"basic levl " dragons). The same applies for other creatures treated in a >similar way (those in Creature crucibles..) Am I wrong here? I agree with you. This also fit with Bruce's article about dragons' life cycles in Dragon #170. Same goes for other creatures with levels ('noids, PC creatures, Princess Ark creatures, Andrew's Thouls...) >Also, how would you treat a mage who wants to polymorph into a race that >gains powers with age cathegories (example a vampire)? I'd say in this case >he cannot polymorph into a being older than his own age... Agreed, but... what about an elf 600 years old? Can he polymorph into a 600 years old vampire? Maybe we should scale demihuman age to human one? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 17:27:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - St. Stefan >>The idea that the "Kingdom of Adventure" >>has only kobolds and goblins with which to challenge >the players was, IMO, >>a weak argument made primarily because the fans of >Stefan know that *he* >>can't handle anything more challenging than a kobold >armed bearing a board >>with a nail stuck through it. PCs, IMO, are made of >sterner stuff, >>irregardless of where they are based. > >Now, now, James, you know this is going to make them >drag out the "He fended off an assassin in his own >bedroom" thing. Personally, I'll place THAT one in the >realm of propaganda: Note that it didn't say what >condition the intruder was in; my guess is that he was >a drooling wonder who got lucky enough to sneak past >the bodyguards. A "real" assassin would have been much >more challenging than your hypothetical kobold! >8-)~ > Okay, I've been silent long enough... Last time I checked, 15th (AD&D) or 20th (D&D) level fighters are capable of handling themselves pretty well in a fight. PCs of those levels generally go around slicing dragons to fillets of wyrm, slaughtering evil necromancer-liches, or fending off demonic invasions. So why cast aspersions on King Stefan's abilities in combat? In D&D terms, he's also a Grand Master of the sword. That's Grand Master, as in world-class butt-kicker with that particular weapon. A lot of people seem to dislike King Stefan because Karameikos is better off than their pet Mystaran nation in a lot of ways. "He's too stupid to realize what evil is." "He's only popular because of propaganda." "He can't handle anything tougher than a kobold." The first thing that comes to mind when I see these comments is 'jealousy.' If you want to complain about Karameikos' popularity, or King Stefan's personality, there's not much that can be said; opinions are like bad habits, everyone has them. But as for saying he can't fight, look at the stats. He'd give most PCs a good fight, and compares well with other national rulers. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 15:30:52 -0700 From: Dave Keyser Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - St. Stefan Glen Sprigg wrote: > >>The idea that the "Kingdom of Adventure" > >>has only kobolds and goblins with which to challenge > >the players was, IMO, > >>a weak argument made primarily because the fans of > >Stefan know that *he* > >>can't handle anything more challenging than a kobold > >armed bearing a board > >>with a nail stuck through it. PCs, IMO, are made of > >sterner stuff, > >>irregardless of where they are based. > > > >Now, now, James, you know this is going to make them > >drag out the "He fended off an assassin in his own > >bedroom" thing. Personally, I'll place THAT one in the > >realm of propaganda: Note that it didn't say what > >condition the intruder was in; my guess is that he was > >a drooling wonder who got lucky enough to sneak past > >the bodyguards. A "real" assassin would have been much > >more challenging than your hypothetical kobold! > >8-)~ > > > Okay, I've been silent long enough... > > Last time I checked, 15th (AD&D) or 20th (D&D) level fighters are capable of > handling themselves pretty well in a fight. PCs of those levels generally > go around slicing dragons to fillets of wyrm, slaughtering evil > necromancer-liches, or fending off demonic invasions. So why cast > aspersions on King Stefan's abilities in combat? In D&D terms, he's also a > Grand Master of the sword. That's Grand Master, as in world-class > butt-kicker with that particular weapon. I don't remember him being a Grand Master in any weapon. What source did you take that from? And I think he was 15th level in D&D. As a matter of fact, aside from the Masters series of rules and modules, I only recall three cases where the mastery rules were used. Torenal was a grand master in the Gazeteer boxed set, WotI gave what'-his-name mastery of sword and two-handed sword, and a Dungeon magazine gave a Specularum bouncer Expert skill in dagger throwing. Can anyone think of any others? Dave Keyser *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:54:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - St. Stefan >I don't remember him being a Grand Master in any weapon. What source did >you take that from? And I think he was 15th level in D&D. > My source is the Poor Wizard's Almanac Vol II, pgs. 134-135. Stefan is a 20th level fighter, 90 hp, Grand Master of the normal sword, with a sword +2. >As a matter of fact, aside from the Masters series of rules and modules, I >only recall three cases where the mastery rules were used. Torenal was a >grand master in the Gazeteer boxed set, WotI gave what'-his-name >mastery of sword and two-handed sword, and a Dungeon magazine gave >a Specularum bouncer Expert skill in dagger throwing. > >Can anyone think of any others? > The PWA Vol. II is chock-full of Weapon Masters; Moglai Khan, Harald Gudmundson, Richard d'Ambreville, King Norlan, Ericall, Emperor Eusebius...all Masters or Grand Masters of various weapons. There are lots more; these are just examples. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 21:31:23 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - [off topic] My lack of snippage Jamuga Khan said from His Golden Yurt: > >Hm, was Y'hog the name of your church or of the immortal? > Actually, Y'hog was a city. I know it sounds kinda weird, but basically the nonexistent Church in my sig is a church of a place. Sort of like the various knightly orders (the Knights of X). >Is the Church of Y'hog the church of the evil Hierarch of Entropy, >Bill Gates? Now if I told you that, I'd have to sacrifice you.... ;) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 21:35:29 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of Ericall St. Nicholas of the Frog said: But pride cometh before the fall, and there came from deep sky >and deep earth a sound like unto a croak, and the men of the holds >beheld as a vast pink member, slick like water, swooped from the sky, >enrapturing the Lioness and carrying her away." > - Liber ex Heptatia, III, v.2-10 (circa 1020? BC, author unknown) *sniff* *sniff* "What ees zat, Armand?" "Eet's a fresh 'elping of frog's legs." "Sacre coeur! But zey are so beeg!" "Ah, Henri, I would not be a master chef, eef I told you everything!" Geoff (enjoying an extra-large helping of frog's legs - jumbo size) - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 21:41:56 -0500 From: Muaadeeb Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - St. Stefan I know it never really stated it but, I also considered Blackguard the Avenger from CM1 Test of the Warlords a Grandmaster. He was listed at the time as a 26th level Avenger. muaa - -----Original Message----- From: Glen Sprigg [SMTP:borealis@cois.on.ca] Sent: Thursday, October 01, 1998 5:55 PM To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - St. Stefan >I don't remember him being a Grand Master in any weapon. What source did >you take that from? And I think he was 15th level in D&D. > My source is the Poor Wizard's Almanac Vol II, pgs. 134-135. Stefan is a 20th level fighter, 90 hp, Grand Master of the normal sword, with a sword +2. >As a matter of fact, aside from the Masters series of rules and modules, I >only recall three cases where the mastery rules were used. Torenal was a >grand master in the Gazeteer boxed set, WotI gave what'-his-name >mastery of sword and two-handed sword, and a Dungeon magazine gave >a Specularum bouncer Expert skill in dagger throwing. > >Can anyone think of any others? > The PWA Vol. II is chock-full of Weapon Masters; Moglai Khan, Harald Gudmundson, Richard d'Ambreville, King Norlan, Ericall, Emperor Eusebius...all Masters or Grand Masters of various weapons. There are lots more; these are just examples. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. Attachment Converted: "D:\EUDORA\attach\WINMAIL1.DAT" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #661 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, October 2 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 662 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Entropy Triumphant? [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] My Evil Internet Empire is Growing... Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of the Northern Reaches Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods Re: [MYSTARA] - St. Stefan Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods Re: [MYSTARA] - Revised Karameikan Timeline Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Re: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] My Evil Internet Empire is Growing... Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods Re: [MYSTARA] - Revised Karameikan Timeline Re: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] My Evil Internet Empire is Growing... Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods Re: [MYSTARA] - St. Stefan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 20:45:05 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Entropy Triumphant? >>Remember, Thanatos was BELOW Nyx in power for Millenia before WoTI. > >Point is since he`s now out in the open is he engaged in an endgame for total destruction? Sorry this is so late as I`ve been out of the office for the last two weeks apart from flying visits An adventure idea I've been working on for any of my players who decide to go for Dynast (not quite at proto-Immortal stage) invloves the time travelling aspect of the Dynast's path. In a nutshell, it involves a plot by Thanatos that is buried in time, and comes to frution in the distant future, resulting in nothing less than the dissolution of reality. The players will have to travel across most of the planes, and a bunch of different times, in order to stop Mr. T's (I pity the poor fool who try and mess with me and the E(ntropy)*TEAM!) nefarious plan. The culmination of this adventure will be an apocalyptic showdown, ending with an Armageddon-like battle that will determine the fate of the multiverse (so as to continue an Immortal campaign, I'm considering that: a) if the players lose, the multiverse never existed or b) if they win, they win in the far future, so no current Immortal, including present-day Thanatos, realizes what happened. A new trick to this epic campaign I'm planning on trying invloves something similar to the concept of character trees. Since this plot invloves many planes and times, one party cannot be everywhere at once, and as they're currently mortal, they don't stand a chance in the parts of the campaign that require Immortal (even novice)-level intervention. Rather than just assume the Immortals and past and future heroes automatically get everything done, at opportune times, I'll "freeze" one party, and tell the players that they are now someone else, somewhere else, somewhen else, for example: "Well, you failed to get out of the way in time. Roll to save vs. the huge Dragon King's breath." "Arggh! If I don't make this..." at this point, Mighty Karnak, Barbarian Lord of the Sword glares at me. "This seems like a good point to stop." "WHAT?" "Okay, you're now in the mythical kingdom of Blackmoor. Karnak, you're now called Mardfelt. Alsephus, you're The Fetch, and Sielnus, you're Scotty Delbfrey..." This way, the players (though not the characters) can participate in every part of the adventure. I've done this once before in my Rifts campaign, with the Africa adventure (turned out very well, even though the players groaned when they were told they were now lovable sewer-dwelling amphibians), and hope to one day see how well it works on Mystara. Any suggestions on how to work this would be appreciated. "In the beginning, there was darkness, but before there was darkness, there was Frog" - St. Stephen Nicholas Hudson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 09:50:29 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] My Evil Internet Empire is Growing... Mystarans, Just thought I would let you in on a bit of news... The two Admins for the Spelljammer mailing list recently decided to leave their position, and held a vote for a replacement. I tossed my name into the ring and, surprisingly, won. This means I am now the Admin for both the Mystara list and the Spelljammer list. How will this affect the MML? Simply, it won't. Truth be told, the SJML has a much lower volume of messages - at least one-half to one-third - so it shouldn't take any significant extra time on my part. Just thought I would share that. Certainly not exciting as, say, having a baby... Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com ICQ #20039817 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 21:01:53 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of the Northern Reaches a weak argument made primarily because the fans of Stefan know that *he* >can't handle anything more challenging than a kobold armed bearing a board >with a nail stuck through it. PCs, IMO, are made of sterner stuff, >irregardless of where they are based. Hey, kobolds can slaughter even a group of name+ level characters. Anyone ever read Tenser's Kobolds? In it, a tribe of standard (ie, 1/2 HD) kobolds, through the use of intelligent tactics and traps, completely annhilate a party of 12+ adventurers. And if you used Orcs of Thar to beef them up... "In the beginning, there was darkness, but before there was darkness, there was Frog" - St. Stephen Nicholas Hudson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 23:15:21 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Point regarding Stefan had nothing to do with his stats, and/or whether he is (on paper) capable of swinging a sword or not. Point is that defenders of Karameikos are often (well, always) makeing IMO risible and disingenuous arguments about why nothing of serious import should happen in Traldara. If you want the place to be serene (non-heroic), idilic, calm, secure area, then don't expect anyone to view its inhabitants as a bunch of epic heros. For their to be epic heros, their needs to be a comensurate challenge. The defenders of Karameikos are the ones saying that level of challenge can't exist within Traldara (for whatever reason at the moment), so don't blame me if I don't consider it's ruler (or anyone else in Traldara for that matter*) to be worthy of reverence as a great hero. *Exception: a certain ammout of political skill was evidenced. But, asside from Stefan slaughtering the revolt of the indiginous inhabitants of Traldara when he first arrived, IMO most of the political achievements/successes of his regime are due to the skill of Olivia, as noted earlier. That makes her the "hero" in my book, if their is any. Certainly not a person who is (as his own defenders admit) blind to the existance of evil, to the point of near sociopathy. Anyhow, end of my rant on the subject for now. Just didn't want anyone to get the impression that I felt certain arguments made reciently were powerful and persuasive. 8-)~ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 22:22:52 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate >St. Jennifer of Mystara said: >>> >>> So, the "Karameikos Effect"? Hmm...is that an official term? Personally, >>> I prefer the "St. Stefan Effect" ;-) > >St. James of the Holy Screed said: > >>You know, great minds think alike. I was tempted to make snide remarks >>about "St. Stefan" "St. Stefan": bringer of peace to Karameikos. St. Stephen: bringer of peace to frog- er..mankind. Those Halav cultists have got it wrong! Stefan isn't the reincarnation of Halav, he's the reincarnation of The Rock! "In the beginning, there was darkness, but before there was darkness, there was Frog" - St. Stephen Nicholas Hudson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 03:54:16 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods At 02:09 PM 10/1/98 +0200, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > >That is a good idea. I'm doing something similar myself, though at a >smaller scale. My campaign looks very much like canon mystara when you >look at the big picture, but I love to toss in little details that makes >it different. I had planned just to advance a few years but then I got to feeling homesick for Karameikos with Stefan (I hear he's real popular around here :) >This ios interesting. I have always wanted a god of magic, and Rad didnt >seem to fit that role very well actually. Nope. Rad would do fine as a god of the Radiance but he just comes up short for magic as a whole. I've dumped Rad but keeping Etienne instead (and that kooky family). >Forseti/Forsetta is a Frisian god. He was believed to be the son of >Baldur/Balder. IMC I'm simply making him Balder. Do you have any conflicts with Valerias? In terms of both are over beauty (I think). >I dont know if I should openly admit that I saw that movie... >Christopher Lambert is cool though. (Especially in Highlander I) I don't mind admitting to the first one but I NEVER saw the second!! ((And, yes, it is horrible)) >More historical info. Thor was much more popular than Odin in Norway. Odin >was seen as the God of kings and rulers, and the farmers of Norway >couldn't care less about such people. Thor OTOH represented the >individualist, the warrior and all that. He earned his respect. I like that. I think I will replace Halav with him now :) >There is some info on www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc/dreaming.html > >Basically Oneiros is the Immortal of Dreams. I picture him as an Eternal >or Hierarch of Thought. The main source of inspiration is Morpheus from >Neil Gaimans' Sandman. I loved that series. Gaimans' Sandman made me believe a pantheon isn't complete without someone over dream. I think you always need one over luck or fate too. I'll try to look at what you have on Oneiros :) This has been a Galwylin(r) Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 03:59:08 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - St. Stefan At 05:27 PM 10/1/98 -0400, Glen Sprigg wrote: > >A lot of people seem to dislike King Stefan because Karameikos is better off >than their pet Mystaran nation in a lot of ways. "He's too stupid to >realize what evil is." "He's only popular because of propaganda." "He >can't handle anything tougher than a kobold." The first thing that comes to >mind when I see these comments is 'jealousy.' Karameikans know the whole world is jealous of them!! A few more years and all of the Known World will be begging for help like that pathetic Thyatis. I guess they'll just have to start exploring the other continents to see if there are any equals to be found ;D This has been a Galwylin(r) Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 13:22:25 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, Galwylin wrote: > At 02:09 PM 10/1/98 +0200, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > > > >That is a good idea. I'm doing something similar myself, though at a > >smaller scale. My campaign looks very much like canon mystara when you > >look at the big picture, but I love to toss in little details that makes > >it different. > > I had planned just to advance a few years but then I got to feeling > homesick for Karameikos with Stefan (I hear he's real popular around here :) > >This ios interesting. I have always wanted a god of magic, and Rad didnt > >seem to fit that role very well actually. > > Nope. Rad would do fine as a god of the Radiance but he just comes up > short for magic as a whole. I've dumped Rad but keeping Etienne instead > (and that kooky family). Hehe, personally I'm keeping Rad. He is too cool not to have around. Stirring up things in Immortal society. He is like the "Fool" of Tarot Lore. Or have I been reading too much Nephilim lately? > >Forseti/Forsetta is a Frisian god. He was believed to be the son of > >Baldur/Balder. IMC I'm simply making him Balder. > > Do you have any conflicts with Valerias? In terms of both are over beauty > (I think). Valerias represents feminine beauty, which may be seen as something totally different. OTOH conflict between Val and Freyja might be likely. Though their interests are in different regions of the world. > >I dont know if I should openly admit that I saw that movie... > >Christopher Lambert is cool though. (Especially in Highlander I) > I don't mind admitting to the first one but I NEVER saw the second!! > ((And, yes, it is horrible)) I didnt see the sequel either..yet..its probably worse.. > >More historical info. Thor was much more popular than Odin in Norway. Odin > >was seen as the God of kings and rulers, and the farmers of Norway > >couldn't care less about such people. Thor OTOH represented the > >individualist, the warrior and all that. He earned his respect. > > I like that. I think I will replace Halav with him now :) I'd keep Halav. IMO Halav represents the Mythical King. If youve read the introductionary series to "The Books of Magic" (More Gaiman here) you'll remember the King resting in Faerie(IIRC). He is described as Arthur, Charlemange, etc... Obviously, he is not as powerful as a deity representing a force of nature(thunder), but still.. > >There is some info on www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc/dreaming.html > >Basically Oneiros is the Immortal of Dreams. I picture him as an Eternal > >or Hierarch of Thought. The main source of inspiration is Morpheus from > >Neil Gaimans' Sandman. > > I loved that series. Gaimans' Sandman made me believe a pantheon isn't > complete without someone over dream. I think you always need one over luck > or fate too. I'll try to look at what you have on Oneiros :) for luck, try Tyche or Fortuna as she is known as IMC. I've also an idea about Khoronus being similar to Destiny(more Sandman). Though I use the Endless ones as sources of inspiration, I'm not saying these immortals _are_ the Endless. But stealing a few traits make em more interesting. Also, Hel=Death is kinda cool. The Oneiros project is unfortunately another of those projects I started and never quite finished :( Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 13:38:22 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revised Karameikan Timeline On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Galwylin wrote: > Yes, more on the glorious kingdom of Karameikos! > AC 1006 Karameikos declares independence from Thyatis naming himself king > and the Duchy of Traladara as the kingdom of Karameikos. I'd include something about Stefan promoting the barons and other nobles. Like Duchess Arteris Penhaligion, Duke Kelvin and Count Halaran.. Or something like that. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 07:38:20 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan But if you posit that A) Olivia is wise and cunning, then you have to also posit B) Olivia was correct in her judgement of Stefan. In other words, one cannot choose to hold one of these two as being smart and whatnot, while the other is a bumbling fool. And as for peace/challenges, I think alot of the misperception of Karameikos comes from seeing it "as a snapshot". In other words, there are all sorts of bad guys running around the place (read "challenges") orcs, trolls, kobolds (not as weak as you might think), The Caves of Chaos, numerous undead, including some in leadership roles, Frost Giants--never forget the frost giants! So it is a wild country, the wildness being held back by a few, elite, though undermanned, guardposts. It is not so much that the ruler is weak, he is just understaffed. This is why it is a good place for beginning heroes. But the fact is, one could run a huge, long campaign here. Its a great place! And a natural lure to Thyatis, because of the relationship there (I am still in AC1000). James Ruhland wrote: > Point regarding Stefan had nothing to do with his stats, and/or > whether he is (on paper) capable of swinging a sword or not. > Point is that defenders of Karameikos are often (well, always) makeing IMO > risible and disingenuous arguments about why nothing of serious import > should happen in Traldara. > If you want the place to be serene (non-heroic), idilic, calm, secure > area, then don't expect anyone to view its inhabitants as a bunch of epic > heros. > For their to be epic heros, their needs to be a comensurate challenge. The > defenders of Karameikos are the ones saying that level of challenge can't > exist within Traldara (for whatever reason at the moment), so don't blame > me if I don't consider it's ruler (or anyone else in Traldara for that > matter*) to be worthy of reverence as a great hero. > > *Exception: a certain ammout of political skill was evidenced. But, asside > from Stefan slaughtering the revolt of the indiginous inhabitants of > Traldara when he first arrived, IMO most of the political > achievements/successes of his regime are due to the skill of Olivia, as > noted earlier. That makes her the "hero" in my book, if their is any. > Certainly not a person who is (as his own defenders admit) blind to the > existance of evil, to the point of near sociopathy. > > Anyhow, end of my rant on the subject for now. Just didn't want anyone to > get the impression that I felt certain arguments made reciently were > powerful and persuasive. 8-)~ > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 07:41:18 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] My Evil Internet Empire is Growing... Yeah, the volume of traffic thing is noted on the MMB too. Pretty darn good for an out of print world I would say! Thanks for giving us the news! Leroy Van Camp III wrote: > Mystarans, > Just thought I would let you in on a bit of news... > The two Admins for the Spelljammer mailing list recently > decided to leave their position, and held a vote for a replacement. > I tossed my name into the ring and, surprisingly, won. > This means I am now the Admin for both the Mystara list and > the Spelljammer list. > How will this affect the MML? Simply, it won't. Truth be > told, the SJML has a much lower volume of messages - at > least one-half to one-third - so it shouldn't take any significant > extra time on my part. > Just thought I would share that. Certainly not exciting as, > say, having a baby... > > Leroy Van Camp III > malacoda@lesbois.com > owner-mystara-l@mpgn.com > ICQ #20039817 > > "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." > MST3K > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 08:34:33 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods At 01:22 PM 10/2/98 +0200, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > >Hehe, personally I'm keeping Rad. He is too cool not to have around. >Stirring up things in Immortal society. He is like the "Fool" of Tarot >Lore. Or have I been reading too much Nephilim lately? Well, I've never liked Rad (though his mortal identity I do) so him being the Fool sounds like a winner though I picture him as the Hanged Man. He's neither here nor there :) >Valerias represents feminine beauty, which may be seen as something >totally different. OTOH conflict between Val and Freyja might be likely. >Though their interests are in different regions of the world. Yep. I saw that conflict between Val and Freyja which is why I went with Freyja representing the stable form of love. Val's the Immortal to call on if you're going into the red light district and Freyja's the one if you're looking for a mate. And I wanted to avoid an Immortal cat-fight ;> Though it might be interesting to have Baldur represent beauty and Val passion and lust. I think they get confused quite a bit. >I didnt see the sequel either..yet..its probably worse.. Worse isn't the word for MK2. Think Highlander 2 only without the good parts ;x >I'd keep Halav. IMO Halav represents the Mythical King. If youve read the >introductionary series to "The Books of Magic" (More Gaiman here) you'll >remember the King resting in Faerie(IIRC). He is described as Arthur, >Charlemange, etc... Obviously, he is not as powerful as a deity >representing a force of nature(thunder), but still.. I suppose Halav could remain the strategist and noble war. All that I really would have done was had Thor be known as Halav to the Traladarans. I do have him as a demipower so he's not far removed from mortals. When I thought of replacing him with Thor, I thought it would be a good time to replace Petra with Sif. Speaking of forces of nature, what do you think of Radien being over storms? I have him being an imported Immortal from Ochalea. Hurricanes would come from that direction too. >for luck, try Tyche or Fortuna as she is known as IMC. I've also an idea >about Khoronus being similar to Destiny(more Sandman). Though I use the >Endless ones as sources of inspiration, I'm not saying these immortals >_are_ the Endless. But stealing a few traits make em more interesting. >Also, Hel=Death is kinda cool. I did want Tyche (and may still take her). Khoronus as Destiny is intriguing. I was 'killing' him (when he goes back in time to prevent the creation of the Radiance that is destroying Mystara in the future and becomes the essense of time to come). I loved Death though Hel doesn't strike me as similiar. To me, death is lawful neutral but much of the choices I made were how mortals see these absolutes. Death always is pictured as evil though I think philosophers would disagree with that. Since my plans have AC1013 be in the middle of the dark ages, that seemed like a good way to go. This has been a Galwylin(r) Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 08:38:04 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revised Karameikan Timeline At 01:38 PM 10/2/98 +0200, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > >I'd include something about Stefan promoting the barons and other nobles. >Like Duchess Arteris Penhaligion, Duke Kelvin and Count Halaran.. Yes. These will all be under his command when he came to Karameikos to beat back the Traladaran uprising. I was just wanting to toss this on the wall and see if it stuck. The Karameikan timeline will be the first and completely finish as soon as I get the basics of the overall timeline done. This has been a Galwylin(r) Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 08:39:51 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] My Evil Internet Empire is Growing... Does this mean the Spelljammer list is going to become boring where people talk to each other and not at them? Or use language not found in the sewers? ;> This has been a Galwylin(r) Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 08:51:14 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan At 07:38 AM 10/2/98 -0400, Daly wrote: > >So it is a wild country, the wildness being held back by a few, elite, though >undermanned, guardposts. It is not so much that the ruler is weak, he is just >understaffed. This is why it is a good place for beginning heroes. This is really where I and the canon sources differ. I still can't see why Karameikos is so wild and untamed when its 1) a coastal nation 2) surrounded by nations quite advanced for the time period. With Thyatis on one side and Darokan and Glantri on the other, it should have been tamed years ago. This has been a Galwylin(r) Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:12:02 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, Galwylin wrote: > At 01:22 PM 10/2/98 +0200, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > > > >Hehe, personally I'm keeping Rad. He is too cool not to have around. > >Stirring up things in Immortal society. He is like the "Fool" of Tarot > >Lore. Or have I been reading too much Nephilim lately? > > Well, I've never liked Rad (though his mortal identity I do) so him being > the Fool sounds like a winner though I picture him as the Hanged Man. He's > neither here nor there :) The fool as seen by occultists is pretty close to what you describe here. He is the unpredictable element. In the "books of Magic" John Constantine is described as the Fool.... The Fool is Cool :) > Yep. I saw that conflict between Val and Freyja which is why I went with > Freyja representing the stable form of love. Val's the Immortal to call on > if you're going into the red light district and Freyja's the one if you're > looking for a mate. And I wanted to avoid an Immortal cat-fight ;> Though > it might be interesting to have Baldur represent beauty and Val passion and > lust. I think they get confused quite a bit. oooh. Catfight ;) For more Sandman analogies: Val=Desire.. I didnt see Val as such a bitch though... > >I didnt see the sequel either..yet..its probably worse.. > > Worse isn't the word for MK2. Think Highlander 2 only without the good > parts ;x yucky. I hear MK4 is out on Cd-rom now... New grotesque fatalities.. > I suppose Halav could remain the strategist and noble war. All that I > really would have done was had Thor be known as Halav to the Traladarans. > I do have him as a demipower so he's not far removed from mortals. When I > thought of replacing him with Thor, I thought it would be a good time to > replace Petra with Sif. Speaking of forces of nature, what do you think of > Radien being over storms? I have him being an imported Immortal from > Ochalea. Hurricanes would come from that direction too. Do you only want one pantheon? Remember that Odin is a deity of war aswell.. Raiden..hmm..I dont know what to make of him really. My players would kill me if I introduced him to my campaign anyway.. > I did want Tyche (and may still take her). Khoronus as Destiny is > intriguing. I was 'killing' him (when he goes back in time to prevent the > creation of the Radiance that is destroying Mystara in the future and > becomes the essense of time to come). I loved Death though Hel doesn't > strike me as similiar. To me, death is lawful neutral but much of the > choices I made were how mortals see these absolutes. Death always is > pictured as evil though I think philosophers would disagree with that. > Since my plans have AC1013 be in the middle of the dark ages, that seemed > like a good way to go. I never liked the way Hel was described in Mystara products. She seems like a childish supervillain IMO. I think she should be seen as merciless, but not wicked. Lawful Neutral would fit actually. Death in Sandman seems to break laws every now and then though..(Like in "the Time of your Life" and those stories about Whatshisnameagain..uhm..that guy who never dies.. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:11:30 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - St. Stefan Have you gone through X12 "Skarda´s Mirror"? The Stefan portrayed there seem the typical guy who must be rescued by a bunch of PCs! Skarda´s fighters were quite weak and unorganized, but they put Duke Stefan against the wall. Perhaps after crowning himself King he received some kind of supernatural charisma... Andrés "Who can live in a country governed by Thyatian nobles and taught thr Art of magic by Alphatian wizards?" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #662 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, October 3 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 663 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Re: [MYSTARA] - St. Stefan Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - [off topic] My lack of snippage Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan [MYSTARA] - Revenge of the Northern Reaches Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of the Northern Reaches Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan [MYSTARA] - Birds of a Feather... Re: [MYSTARA] - Birds of a Feather... Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 10:34:20 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan > > But if you posit that A) Olivia is wise and cunning, then you have to also posit B) > Olivia was correct in her judgement of Stefan. > Sure; she was correct in surmising that he'd be the perfect tool, easily controlable from behind the scenes, while cutting a dashing figure. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 10:35:38 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - St. Stefan > > Have you gone through X12 "Skarda´s Mirror"? The Stefan portrayed there > seem the typical guy who must be rescued by a bunch of PCs! Skarda´s > fighters were quite weak and unorganized, but they put Duke Stefan against > the wall. Perhaps after crowning himself King he received some kind of > supernatural charisma... > Yep. A fun and. . . .illuminating. . .adventure. 8-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 11:55:53 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods At 04:12 PM 10/2/98 +0200, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > >The fool as seen by occultists is pretty close to what you describe here. >He is the unpredictable element. In the "books of Magic" John Constantine >is described as the Fool.... > >The Fool is Cool :) Constantine definitely is. I just don't feel Rad is unpredictable. I imagine no other Immortal wonders what's he doing, he's always doing something with the NoS. Don't forget, he's a blood-thirsty little thing too. Destroying Alphatia like that ;> >oooh. Catfight ;) >For more Sandman analogies: Val=Desire.. >I didnt see Val as such a bitch though... Nah, that don't sound like her. >Do you only want one pantheon? Remember that Odin is a deity of war >aswell.. I think I've found more war deities than any thing (and half of them are current Immortals). Makes you wonder why Mystara is so peaceful. >Raiden..hmm..I dont know what to make of him really. My players would kill >me if I introduced him to my campaign anyway.. I'm going to try and get a write-up done on him later today. He can always be introduced under a different name. Half the Immortals I did away with will be there in name in various nations. >I never liked the way Hel was described in Mystara products. She seems >like a childish supervillain IMO. I think she should be seen as merciless, >but not wicked. Lawful Neutral would fit actually. Death in Sandman seems >to break laws every now and then though..(Like in "the Time of your Life" >and those stories about Whatshisnameagain..uhm..that guy who never dies.. I didn't agree that a deity of death would be having anything to do with adding more living. That seems completely wrong. I remember one phrase from Gaimans' Death, "I'll see you later." No boogey-man routine, no shrouded mystery. Just fact. Hel supposily has a white/black face. That seems to indicate she is both good and bad. Of all the Immortals, she should be the most patient of all. No one escapes death. All she has to do is wait. This has been a Galwylin® Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 12:01:39 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan At 10:34 AM 10/2/98 -0500, James Ruhland wrote: > >Sure; she was correct in surmising that he'd be the perfect tool, easily >controlable from behind the scenes, while cutting a dashing figure. Oh, you make Olivia sound like some cheap soap vixen. She's not that crass. You must be thinking of Vanya. Olivia loves Stefan and doesn't see him as a tool. She believes she's helping him though probably more than he thinks. Remember, she had a different heir to the throne picked out but agreed with Stefan's choice. It's a team effort. :) This has been a Galwylin® Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 10:44:09 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan >Oh, you make Olivia sound like some cheap soap vixen. She's not that >crass. You must be thinking of Vanya. Olivia loves Stefan and doesn't see >him as a tool. She believes she's helping him though probably more than he >thinks. Remember, she had a different heir to the throne picked out but >agreed with Stefan's choice. It's a team effort. :) Are you forgetting that this is the same woman who "loved" her betrothed so much that she based her final decision on whether or not to marry him upon his success in his new duchy? Having been brought up in a culture (Thyatis) that allows women their only power through that of their husbands or male relatives, she would want a powerful husband, especially one she knows she can influence. She doesn't have to be a "cheap soap vixen" in order to be strong-willed and independent, and (not to mention) smarter than her husband. Stefan leaves a big void, and it is her natural tendency to want to fill it. And as far as the heir business is concerned, who's to say how that might have turned out?; canon ends there. Perhaps she would have made her move when her favourite (Justin, IIRC) was a little older, more responsible, and less impulsive. Jenn valerya@hotmail.com Valerya@webtv.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ "The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so much as to make settled things strange." (GK Chesterton) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 10:55:00 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods >I think I've found more war deities than any thing (and half of them are >current Immortals). Makes you wonder why Mystara is so peaceful. ...hmm...I'd be interested to hear if anyone can explain this one? I know that I've been more than a little frustrated in the past that so many canon settings have a nice, peaceful bent to them--that's why canon Darokin (for example) is so boring, IMHO. Dead men may not buy goods, but peace and happpiness are dull in an rpg. Jenn valerya@hotmail.com Valerya@webtv.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ "The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so much as to make settled things strange." (GK Chesterton) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 14:04:53 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan At 10:44 AM 10/2/98 PDT, Jennifer Favia wrote: > >Are you forgetting that this is the same woman who >"loved" her betrothed so much that she based her final >decision on whether or not to marry him upon his >success in his new duchy? Not at all. Good choosing skills are a requirement for all marriages. Isn't there a saying "Why marry a poor man when you can marry a rich one?" >Having been brought up in a >culture (Thyatis) that allows women their only power >through that of their husbands or male relatives, she >would want a powerful husband, especially one she knows >she can influence. Exactly. But that doesn't mean she thinks her husband is beneath them. I think Olivia respects Stefan and Stefan respects her. Her strengths fit with his weaknesses as his to her weaknesses. >She doesn't have to be a "cheap soap >vixen" in order to be strong-willed and independent, >and (not to mention) smarter than her husband. I didn't mean that. I meant that she didn't take a survey of who would serve her best and picked the one that she could manipulate the easiest. She saw potiental in Stefan and waited until it looked like she wasn't mistaken. Is she smarter than Stefan? I don't think she thinks that. She knows she's able to do things he couldn't and same with her. She relied on favoritism in choosing an heir while Stefan chose what was best for the kingdom. >Perhaps she would have made her >move when her favourite (Justin, IIRC) was a little >older, more responsible, and less impulsive. I don't think Olivia would ever set out to dethrone one of her own children. Her favorite (I think it is Justin) didn't get what she had hoped but she doesn't strike me as the type woman that would go against her whole family for her favorite. This is a partnership beyond marriage. Each knows their role and makes the whole stronger. I'd imagine they have quite interesting pillow talk :D This has been a Galwylin® Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:17:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan >>Perhaps she would have made her >>move when her favourite (Justin, IIRC) was a little >>older, more responsible, and less impulsive. > >I don't think Olivia would ever set out to dethrone one of her own >children. Her favorite (I think it is Justin) didn't get what she had >hoped but she doesn't strike me as the type woman that would go against her >whole family for her favorite. This is a partnership beyond marriage. >Each knows their role and makes the whole stronger. I'd imagine they have >quite interesting pillow talk :D > A minor point here, but Olivia favoured Valen as the heir, not Justin. Justin's the quiet, unassuming one who acts like a minor functionary around people who don't know him. Valen's the impulsive one who gets into trouble because he thinks he can always get out of it. He's a lot like his mother in other ways, which is why she favours him. Likewise, Adriana has a lot of Stefan's good qualities, including a more direct approach to political matters, which is why he named her as the heir. She's also produced two children with her husband, ensuring dynastic continuation, which is also a key responsibility of a ruler. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 22:59:41 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan >matters, which is why he named her as the heir. She's also produced two >children with her husband, ensuring dynastic continuation, which is also a >key responsibility of a ruler. > Except that now we will have the Hyraksos dynasty ruling Karameikos :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:03:43 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan > > > Except that now we will have the Hyraksos dynasty ruling Karameikos :) > A change I'd actually support. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 15:50:45 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan At 10:59 PM 10/2/98 +0300, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: > >Except that now we will have the Hyraksos dynasty ruling Karameikos :) Yep. Can't have that. A Karameikos must always sit on the throne. What's that rule in England that if the Queen died, the throne would go to her son and not her husband? This has been a Galwylin® Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 21:45:27 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - [off topic] My lack of snippage > Now if I told you that, I'd have to sacrifice you.... ;) Bah! These clerics never have new ideas! ;-) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 14:31:28 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan >A minor point here, but Olivia favoured Valen as the heir, not Justin. Always get them mixed up without the books...apologies... Likewise, Adriana has a lot of >Stefan's good qualities, including a more direct >approach to political >matters, which is why he named her as the heir Please don't insult Adriana. Stefan--a direct approach to political matters???? "Hmm, my cousin may be wreaking havoc in the west? Nah, must be a rumor; I'll crawl under a rock till it goes away, or the hin invade, or something..." Um, THAT Stefan? Jenn valerya@hotmail.com Valerya@webtv.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ "The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so much as to make settled things strange." (GK Chesterton) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 23:03:03 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods >This ios interesting. I have always wanted a god of magic, and Rad didnt >seem to fit that role very well actually. Alphatia is a godess of magic. so is Razud and other Alphatian immortals (Palarakatan?) . If you dont like Rad or the Alph immortals you can always use Ilsundal. (as I do for some cultures IMC- espcialy in Darokin). >Forseti/Forsetta is a Frisian god. He was believed to be the son of >Baldur/Balder. IMC I'm simply making him Balder. As much as I like norse mythology I think we have too much norse originating immortals. IMO the Odin-Thor-Loky-Hel quartet is enough (I think Hel is the best entropic). >...believe a pantheon isn't >complete without someone over dream. I think you always need one over >luck or fate too. >> Naunomena (am I spelling correctly)? how about Korekito as the dream god? I use him in my campaign as the trickster that is giving ridles in dreams (mostly beneficial ones) I know some immortal is devoted to nightmers, is he that ogerish fellow? I can't remember. Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 17:20:27 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan At 02:31 PM 10/2/98 PDT, Jennifer Favia wrote: > >Please don't insult Adriana. Stefan--a direct approach >to political matters???? "Hmm, my cousin may be >wreaking havoc in the west? Nah, must be a rumor; I'll >crawl under a rock till it goes away, or the hin >invade, or something..." Um, THAT Stefan? Stefan's character flaw is that he can't see it. It just doesn't register. Advisors *might* get him to see it in other people but he can't in his own family. Its like where this woman's son was accussed of murder. Everyone said he did it and evidence says he did it but she wouldn't believe it and set out to prove he didn't. And he did do it but it took his admitting it before she could accept it. Now, the real question is how did Hendrick's activities remain hidden to Olivia? ;D This has been a Galwylin® Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 23:33:52 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of the Northern Reaches Nicholas wrote: >>Hey, kobolds can slaughter even a group of name+ level characters. Anyone ever read Tenser's Kobolds? In it, a tribe of standard (ie, 1/2 HD) kobolds, through the use of intelligent tactics and traps, completely annhilate a party of 12+ adventurers. And if you used Orcs of Thar to beef them up... >> This reminds me of one adventure I had. The players were on their way north in the broken lands. I was planning a randez-vous with a psichotic Belcadizian elf vampire. To soften up my PCs I had them run into a not so big(less than twenty) group of kobolds and gnolls. The PCs were about 8 leveled and the noids (even though I used "orcs of thar") were only 2HD. The kobolds had one wicca at level 4 magic use. They had short bows. My players had a real rough time defiting them caus they fought smart (the noids I mean). After this guys the vampire seemed kind of tame so I had to boost him up a bit. One of my players (an exprienced one) told me this was one of the hardes battels he had. So when youre bashing dragons and giants take a good look if there arnt any kobolds lurking behind them. Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 18:36:24 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Personally I always liked that one of the great heroes of the realm had a tragic flaw. It always seemed rather poetic to me. At 02:31 PM 10/2/98 PDT, you wrote: > > >>A minor point here, but Olivia favoured Valen as the >heir, not Justin. > >Always get them mixed up without the >books...apologies... > >Likewise, Adriana has a lot of >>Stefan's good qualities, including a more direct >>approach to political >>matters, which is why he named her as the heir > >Please don't insult Adriana. Stefan--a direct approach >to political matters???? "Hmm, my cousin may be >wreaking havoc in the west? Nah, must be a rumor; I'll >crawl under a rock till it goes away, or the hin >invade, or something..." Um, THAT Stefan? > > >Jenn > >valerya@hotmail.com >Valerya@webtv.net >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ > "The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so >much as to make settled things strange." (GK Chesterton) > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 19:00:36 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of the Northern Reaches >Nicholas wrote: > >>Hey, kobolds can slaughter even a group of name+ level characters. >Anyone ever read Tenser's Kobolds? In it, a tribe of standard (ie, 1/2 >HD) kobolds, through the use of intelligent tactics and traps, >completely annhilate a party of 12+ adventurers. And if you used Orcs of >Thar to beef them up... "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies There's an old Dungeon magazine adventure in which goblins are used in a similar fashion; they're able to demolish mid-level opponents by the cunning use of traps, fortifications, attack-trained pet monsters and strategy. The title was something like "Callow's Deep", IIRC. (If you're thinking of the same kobolds I think you are, Nicholas, weren't they "Tucker's kobolds", not Tenser's...? Or did TSR eventually base a module around that old Dragon-editor's rant, about the killer kobolds his long-ago DM used to sic on his party...? If so, I'd love to read it!) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 16:25:11 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan >Stefan's character flaw is that he can't see it. It >just doesn't register. And once again, the point is made why it is that he is incapable of being a good ruler. A ruler's job is to see threats to his rule or to his country, and to deal with them in the best way. Someone incapable of even seeing the threat in the first absolutely cannot qualify as a good ruler. >Now, the real question is how did Hendrick's >activities remain hidden to >Olivia? ;D They couldn't have. She would have found out one way or another--either through her spy network, or from the activity around Stefan (Minister: "Your Grace, Baron von Hendricks is murdering peasants in the streets of Halag." Stefan: "Eh, huh? Nah...You eating that?"). Now the question is, why did Olivia not a) convince Stefan that he was being pig-headed about the situation or b) do something herself? She may have tried and failed (in which case Stefan is an even bigger dolt for not listening to the person some of you have called his "partner"). OR, she may not have tried at all...We also have to consider--especially those who think that Stefan was not a buffoon and actually knew what he was doing--that a blind eye was deliberately turned toward the Black Eagle situation, as it certainly kept the riffraff from staging a rebellion in the west, and gave Traladarans someone besides the king/duke to be the bad guy. So I think the issue here is, was Stefan so "blind" to the evils of his cousin that he would not even listen to Olivia? Or is the whole "dull-witted saint" thing an act? Jenn valerya@hotmail.com Valerya@webtv.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ "The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so much as to make settled things strange." (GK Chesterton) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 16:35:02 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan >Personally I always liked that one of the great heroes of the realm had a >tragic flaw. It always seemed rather poetic to me. I find it interesting that Stefan is considered a "hero." Perhaps that statement needs to be qualified; certainly, Thyatian settlers see him a hero--I don't doubt that one bit. To Traladarans, he is a conqueror who does not hesitate to use cruelty against the masses (Marilenev Rebellion). [Those so-called "New Karameikans" who revere him so much are just trying to assimilate into the new mainstream; this happens in a portion of any ethnically-mixed area (personal experience).] Jenn valerya@hotmail.com Valerya@webtv.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ "The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so much as to make settled things strange." (GK Chesterton) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 21:20:05 EDT From: Demmero@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Birds of a Feather... As I mentioned in a previous post, I'm working on an online Mystara campaign set in what's left of the Black Eagle Barony. I'm writing up a history recap for players not familiar with the setting, but I keep getting stuck when I try to explain how the goodly Stefan allowed Baron von Hendriks' atrocities to go on for 40 YEARS. It's really tough, but that's not the only inexplicable behavior I have to explain.... Let's put the shoe on another foot for a moment. Let's examine St. Stefan's evil cousin, the nefarious Black Eagle Baron, Ludwig von Hendriks. This guy's main goal in life is to wrest control of the realm from Stefan. So what does he do? Apparently he plots and schemes for 35+ years, then when Stefan P.O.'s that little insignificant nation to Karameikos' east (Thyatis, I think it's called) and sends his armies off to Darokin to battle the Master, does von Hendriks make a deal with the jilted Emperor Thincol or gather his humanoid minions to march on the capital? No, he adopts the Stefan motto: "Don't just do something--stand there!" I am convinced that this pair inherited a "stupid" gene from their common ancestor.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 23:01:41 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Birds of a Feather... > > I am convinced that this pair inherited a "stupid" gene from their common > ancestor.... > Oh, definately. In fact, they remind me (at their *BEST*) of thouse "Spy vs Spy" guys from Mad Magazine (are thouse guys still in there? I donno. Some of you young pups might've missed that). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 01:00:30 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan In a message dated 1998-10-02 14:11:53 Eastern Daylight Time, valerya@hotmail.com writes: > And as far as the heir business is > concerned, who's to say how that might have turned > out?; canon ends there. Perhaps she would have made her > move when her favourite (Justin, IIRC) was a little > older, more responsible, and less impulsive. Or, even more deviously, maybe Adriana really was her first choice -- but she spoke out against her being named heir just so Stefan would seriously consider the idea -- remember that earlier mention of women not having much power in Thyatis? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 01:00:29 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan In a message dated 1998-10-02 10:20:14 Eastern Daylight Time, galwylin@airnet.net writes: > This is really where I and the canon sources differ. I still can't see why > Karameikos is so wild and untamed when its 1) a coastal nation 2) > surrounded by nations quite advanced for the time period. With Thyatis on > one side and Darokan and Glantri on the other, it should have been tamed > years ago. Well, the coastal areas are not wild and untamed -- and the border with Darokin (Glantri is much farther away) is a chain of rugged and virtually impassable mountains. As I recall, the corresponding areas of Darokin are fairly wild and untamed as well. As for the eastern border with Thyatis -- there is a large forest there filled with relatively unfriendly (not hostile but reclusive) Vyalia elves, who would prefer not to see that region get TOO civilized. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #663 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, October 4 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 664 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Birds of a Feather... Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of the Northern Reaches Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Re: [MYSTARA] - Thothia Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia against the Multiverse! Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of the Northern Reaches Re: [MYSTARA] - Birds of a Feather... Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia against the Multiverse! Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of the Northern Reaches [MYSTARA] - Hin Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 00:12:33 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Birds of a Feather... At 09:20 PM 10/2/98 EDT, Demmero@aol.com wrote: > >I am convinced that this pair inherited a "stupid" gene from their common >ancestor.... Want to know what I think is the real reason? I'll tell you anyway :) Bad scripting. Its why I feel Karameikos (and most of the Known World) needs a rewrite. This has been a Galwylin® Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 22:36:13 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of the Northern Reaches >(If you're thinking of the same kobolds I think you are, Nicholas, weren't >they "Tucker's kobolds", not Tenser's...? Or did TSR eventually base a >module around that old Dragon-editor's rant, about the killer kobolds his >long-ago DM used to sic on his party...? If so, I'd love to read it!) You may be right; off the top of my head, I can't quite recall where I read that, and "Tucker" may very well be what I meant; I'm pretty sure it was an adventure, but I also remember reading said rant, so you'll have to categorize this one as "unknown". "In the beginning, there was darkness, but before there was darkness, there was Frog" - St. Stephen Nicholas Hudson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 22:57:34 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan >>Stefan's character flaw is that he can't see it. It >>just doesn't register. > >And once again, the point is made why it is that he is >incapable of being a good ruler. A ruler's job is to >see threats to his rule or to his country, and to deal >with them in the best way. Someone incapable of even >seeing the threat in the first absolutely cannot >qualify as a good ruler. But did von Hendriks truly qualify as a threat to Karameikos? Under that government system, Ludwig was completely within his rights, and his slave trade was undoubtedly lucrative. Sure, he kept most of it for himself, but he must have been passing along a nice bonus to the Duke's coffers, in the form of a salt tax. You could even argue that, by being a bastion for various lycanthropes and other beasties, Black Eagle kept them out of the rest of the Grand Duchy. von Hendriks' actions became a national problem only once he annoyed the Five Shires sufficiently for them to send military "advisors" ("Mr. Sheriff, what about reports of Hin troops attacking Eagle Cong bases in Darokin?" "We respect the sovereignty of Darokin and all neutral states, and I can assure you that no Hin troops are engaged in any activities except in Halag..."). >>Now, the real question is how did Hendrick's >>activities remain hidden to >>Olivia? ;D > >They couldn't have. She would have found out one way or >another--either through her spy network, or from the >activity around Stefan (Minister: "Your Grace, Baron >von Hendricks is murdering peasants in the streets of >Halag." Stefan: "Eh, huh? Nah...You eating that?"). If you think Olivia's network is impressive, where do you think she got the idea? I imagine that von Hendriks' name must be synomous with covert ops in Karameikan intelligence circles. "In the beginning, there was darkness, but before there was darkness, there was Frog" - St. Stephen Nicholas Hudson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 23:12:46 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thothia > Well, I can be the Guardian of Orthodoxy *and* seek to overthrow the >"canon", in that I think a base reverence for many aspects of canon is a >form of vile heresy, which must be stamped out. > Is that clear? No? As I thought. >No one claims my views are comprehensible. In fact, I think the agents of >FROG may have gotten to me. Croak croak croak croak croak! (Translated as something akin to a guffaw) Soon, all will feel the slimy cold grip of Frog, for Frog reigns supreme! "In the beginning, there was darkness, but before there was darkness, there was Frog" - St. Stephen Nicholas Hudson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 11:51:21 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia against the Multiverse! At 01.09 01/10/98 PDT, GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine wrote: > > >>Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:04:44 +0200 (CEST) >>From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= >>"mar" could be french..err averoignian mare(spl)=3Dsea. So > >Well exactly "mar" is nothing in French, "mare" is a very little lake >(where you'll find ducks, frogs ...) but in latin "mare" means sea ... >in French sea is "mer" ... OTOH "mare" is the Italian world for "sea". Same with "mar", but it's only used on maps and poems. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 11:46:27 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards At 19.15 30/09/98 +0200, Andrés Piquer Otero wrote: >Council is open to 36th lvl MUs only, although, as I have stated in >previous messages, it would be rare to find 1000 members (or even a close >number) in historical Alphatia. Here I disagree. Alphatia is big and old, there're many adventurers in the Empire and it's not unbelievable that at least 2000 mages reached 36th lvl in the last 2000 years, i.e. from when Alphatians arrived on Mystara until the Gaz era. Some of them may have died, but many of them are still alive thanks to longevity potions. Just my opinion. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 09:11:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of the Northern Reaches At 10:36 PM 10/2/98 PDT, you wrote: > >>(If you're thinking of the same kobolds I think you are, Nicholas, weren't >>they "Tucker's kobolds", not Tenser's...? Or did TSR eventually base a >>module around that old Dragon-editor's rant, about the killer kobolds his >>long-ago DM used to sic on his party...? If so, I'd love to read it!) > > You may be right; off the top of my head, I can't quite recall >where I read that, and "Tucker" may very well be what I meant; I'm >pretty sure it was an adventure, but I also remember reading said rant, >so you'll have to categorize this one as "unknown". > Dragon #127, in the Editorial. The closest TSR came to designing an adventure around that concept was the Dragon Mountain boxed set. I haven't played it, but from what I've heard those kobolds are ultra-nasty, particularly with dragon leadership. Glen (the useless fact collector) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 17:21:39 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Birds of a Feather... For a wild guess, maybe Bargle had been manipulating Von Hendricks -- magically or otherwise -- all along, to make sure he didn't step so far out of line that Stefan's "blind eye" couldn't turn away. After all, Mr. The Infamous didn't REALLY want his nominal boss to take on the whole of Karameikos (and get crushed like a grape) ... he just wanted a cushy job as somebody's personal wizard, so he could conduct his own research -- and make a fortune -- without a lot of pushy Glantrian rivals or anti-vivisectionist adventurers horning in on him. I'd assume that the Black Eagle Baron came down with some "mysterious illness" that only Bargle could diagnose or treat, right around the time it looked like he was ready to turn his humanoid forces loose against Stefan. Remember, Bargle was "playing" Ludwig just as much as Olivia was sheparding her husband. Hmmmm.... maybe the cousins ARE a lot more alike than they'd care to admit. :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 17:30:12 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia against the Multiverse! >>Well exactly "mar" is nothing in French, "mare" is a very little lake >>(where you'll find ducks, frogs ...) but in latin "mare" means sea ... >>in French sea is "mer" ... > >OTOH "mare" is the Italian world for "sea". Same with "mar", but it's only >used on maps and poems. And don't forget the "Maria" [pl. of "Mare"] on the Moon! "Mare" is the official term for a lunar "sea", even in English. :-) - - Sharon "Rotipher" (shamelessly plugging her Hollow Moon ideas) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 17:34:08 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Revenge of the Northern Reaches >> You may be right; off the top of my head, I can't quite recall >>where I read that, and "Tucker" may very well be what I meant; I'm >>pretty sure it was an adventure, but I also remember reading said rant, >>so you'll have to categorize this one as "unknown". [Nicolas] >> >Dragon #127, in the Editorial. The closest TSR came to designing an >adventure around that concept was the Dragon Mountain boxed set. I haven't >played it, but from what I've heard those kobolds are ultra-nasty, >particularly with dragon leadership. > >Glen (the useless fact collector) Thanks, guys! Now I know I wasn't crazy, thinking "Huh...? Tucker, Tenser, what's he talking about...?"; plus, it's another reason I should track down "Dragon Mountain". Sharon (the pointless question asker) ;-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 00:09:57 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Hin < snipped > > You could even argue that, by being > a bastion for various lycanthropes and other beasties, Black Eagle kept > them out of the rest of the Grand Duchy. von Hendriks' actions became a > national problem only once he annoyed the Five Shires sufficiently for > them to send military "advisors" ("Mr. Sheriff, what about reports of > Hin troops attacking Eagle Cong bases in Darokin?" "We respect the > sovereignty of Darokin and all neutral states, and I can assure you that > no Hin troops are engaged in any activities except in Halag..."). Hm, what about: "We, the Hin, now declare..."? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 01:22:11 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards In a message dated 10/3/98 7:08:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, brizio@lunet.it writes: << >Council is open to 36th lvl MUs only, although, as I have stated in >previous messages, it would be rare to find 1000 members (or even a close >number) in historical Alphatia. Here I disagree. Alphatia is big and old, there're many adventurers in the Empire and it's not unbelievable that at least 2000 mages reached 36th lvl in the last 2000 years, i.e. from when Alphatians arrived on Mystara until the Gaz era. Some of them may have died, but many of them are still alive thanks to longevity potions. Just my opinion. >> for what it is worth i agree. let's face it living in the alphatian empire is itself an adventure. those that seek adventure have a tough road ahead. those that fail or tick off the wrong person are "meat". therefore those that do make it past the first few levels would be survivors. iirc alphatians are into rivalries yet they know how to analyze each other so that they know when to pick a fight. this way you have your low and mid level characters not butting heads with the big boys. another thing is the 36th level mages being justified thanks to magical life extenders. i have to disagree with this being the primary reason. if you look through DotE and look up the high level mage npcs you'll see that most are not that old...at least to the point where they need such potions to be kept living. as for the number of super mages arriving on mystara....well that shall remain a mystery. i do not really see why the bulk of refugees couldn't have ranked highly as mighty mages. heck after 2000+ years does it really matter? but anyway remember that on old alphatia the alphatians were much more powerful. a mystaran 36th level mage could have been a hockey puck on the old homeworld. i still wonder why the subject of the Alphatian Grand Council draws so much debate. it's not like it actually comes into play in the average campaign. i mean it's a game tool to display the magical might of alphatia. i just accept the canon references and let it go at that. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #664 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, October 4 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 665 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Home page Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards [MYSTARA] - Gnomes of th elements [MYSTARA] - Esterhold and Dragons [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Hin Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards RE: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor RE: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor RE: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor RE: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Esterhold and Dragons Binary attachments (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor) RE: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor RE: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor RE: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor RE: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor RE: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor RE: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 23:20:33 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Home page Just wanted to drop everyone a line to say that I just found out that my guestbook on my home page has been down for who-knows-how-long...It's fixed now, so if anyone was frustrated in their attempt to tell me off for my heresies and whatnot, you can go for it now. 8-)~ Jenn valerya@hotmail.com Valerya@webtv.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ "The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so much as to make settled things strange." (GK Chesterton) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 09:10:51 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards Alex295 said: >>i still wonder why the subject of the Alphatian Grand Council draws so much debate. it's not like it actually comes into play in the average campaign. i mean it's a game tool to display the magical might of alphatia. i just accept the canon references and let it go at that.<< > I can agree with you about the council not being part of a normal campaign. to tell the truth I never even campaigned in alphatia (does Aquas count?) so my players wouldnt care if alphatian council members are all 36 lvled mages and clerics or 9-36 lev mages as I use (or do not use) . excuse me for being petty but I like developing all of mystara, even the parts the players wont be in and the levels of play they wont reach. for ex-I do not want an immortal level campaign but I find the "elevated servents" wonderful-(Hivaard :-) my point being I want a "balanced" alphatia not for my players, but to be able to sleep better at night. (god I need a life!!) by the way someone, cant remember who sugested a while back that alphatia may have a powerful enemy to its east. I would realy want to see that. (MOrient crew?) its seems that some power stops alphatia from world domination (befroe wrath) I would really want to know and befriend :) such a power.... Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 09:20:16 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - Gnomes of th elements a while back I got an idea for gnomish culture and racial traits to be related to the elemental plains. I probably got that from somone on the list so dont be angry at me for pilfering someone's thoughts. The idea is that there are four groups of gnomes : the earth gnomes- living near Rockhome the skygnomes- living in Serraine and Ootsdok the sea gnomes the fire gnomes (or Ice gnomes as they are referd to on the players map.) I am currently working on the timeline for the sea gnomes. If any of you have ideas I would like to hear them before I post the ones i got. thanks Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 12:43:44 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Esterhold and Dragons I was re-reading Bruce's article on dragons in Dragon #170 and I found something interesting: "A neutral dragon attaining Immortality particularly affects the realm of thought. Major shifts in philosophy or religion might be created among people. New ideas might cause people to progressively reject old values, such as the subjects of a king spreading ideas of democracy; slaves or a low caste struggling for emancipation; citizens of a republic supporting a hero with intent of creating an imperial hegem-ony; bloody barbarians yearning for peace, light, and prosperity; or longtime pacifists becoming ruthless raiders. The changes initially affect an area of 1d20 miles radius for a minor nation, double that in a large nation, or 10 times that in a major empire. The occurrence can cross human borders, affecting people in differ-ent ways on either sides of a border. If the affected area represents either 60% of the nation's surface area or 60% of its population, the whole nation will also be affected within 1d6 years. If not, be prepared for even greater trouble (revolts, civil wars, migrations, persecutions, the rise of a martyr's philosophy, the creation of new temples or new states, etc)." Can this explain what happened in Esterhold lately (Joshuan and Net-Almanac-wise)? Note: I don't want to restart again that debate on Esterhold and democracy, just thought this could be a nice in-game explanation for those who criticized those events about Esterhold and Favian Vern. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 09:15:20 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Did anyone ever figure out where Blackmoor was? And how much tilt did it's explosion cause. I wondering specifically if the Isle of Dawn was farther south, north, or connected to Brun :) This has been a Galwylin® Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 10:38:07 EDT From: RISPEN@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hin <> Remember, before they did this Stephen was king-napped by some hin adventurers and thats when he started to open his eyes some. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 08:46:24 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor >I wondering specifically if the Isle of Dawn was >farther south, north, or connected to Brun :) You know, the two of us were discussing that just a couple of days ago; it occurred to us that the IoD might have been connected to Alphatia (in the southeast). Anybody? Jenn valerya@hotmail.com Valerya@webtv.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ "The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so much as to make settled things strange." (GK Chesterton) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 18:52:54 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards > Here I disagree. Alphatia is big and old, there're many adventurers in the > Empire and it's not unbelievable that at least 2000 mages reached 36th lvl > in the last 2000 years, i.e. from when Alphatians arrived on Mystara until > the Gaz era. > > Some of them may have died, but many of them are still alive thanks to > longevity potions. > > Just my opinion. Have you taken into account the cumulative chances of malfunction for a longevity potion or the rarity of its components? In published material, I rarely find a (human) character who benefits of a magical longevity superior to 200 or 300 years. Well-worded Wishes could do the trick, too, but the take their toll on the character´s health nevertheless, so they are no idefinite solution. Besides, think that Alphatia has a great deal of competence, competence which involves duels (and Alphatian duelling is to the Death!). We know of two Alphatian Immortals (Ar and Alphatia) which took the Path of the Parangon... how many else have tried and failed? They would have surely done a good clean-up of top-level MUs. Longevity is fine, but it does not keep at bay sickness, accidents (and Alphatians mages engage in rather hazardous ventures, with creature-summoning, magical engineering and plane-walking) nor conspiration. I agree with you in that in the last 2000 years 2000 Alphatians could have reached 36 level, but it does not imply that they all survived to the present, nor that they were willing to join the Council (the famous "Alphatian individualism"). Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 13:56:05 -0500 From: Muaadeeb Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor I have always been under the impression that Blackmoor was located just north of Glantri. am I wrong? muaa - -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Favia [SMTP:valerya@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, October 04, 1998 10:46 AM To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor >I wondering specifically if the Isle of Dawn was >farther south, north, or connected to Brun :) You know, the two of us were discussing that just a couple of days ago; it occurred to us that the IoD might have been connected to Alphatia (in the southeast). Anybody? Jenn valerya@hotmail.com Valerya@webtv.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ "The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so much as to make settled things strange." (GK Chesterton) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. Attachment Converted: "D:\EUDORA\attach\WINMAIL.DAT" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:36:25 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor On Sun, 4 Oct 1998, Galwylin wrote: > Did anyone ever figure out where Blackmoor was? And how much tilt did it's > explosion cause. I wondering specifically if the Isle of Dawn was farther > south, north, or connected to Brun :) Blackmoor was near Thonia. (HW set) The Axial tilt was about 30 degrees, comparing the HW boxed set maps. A planetary shift like this would have rent a normal planet apart, especially one that is just a hollow sphere. Immortal Interference? Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:39:28 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor On Sun, 4 Oct 1998, Muaadeeb wrote: > I have always been under the impression that Blackmoor was located just north of Glantri. > > > am I wrong? Very much so. The canon place for Blackmoor was set in thonia in the HW boxed set. The "Glantri" setting was brough about because of the position of the NoS, and by an erroneous placement of the traveller's Inn. But AFAIK, Thonia is the official place. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 17:16:19 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor >Very much so. The canon place for Blackmoor was set in Thonia in the HW >boxed set. With all the descriptions that the HW set gives of these events, it says that Blackmoor becme the north pole and Evergrun, the south. But then it also says Ka created the polar openings shortly after the GRoF, so perhaps the original land masses of the two technological powers aren't there any more. Come to think of it, that might be why Ka made the polar openings so darned big: he wasn't just creating passages into the HW ... he was removing the source of the worst of Blackmoor's nuclear fallout! The southern opening was then created, to keep Mystara from being off-balance. >The "Glantri" setting was brought about because of the position of the NoS, >and by an erroneous placement of the Traveller's Inn. This brings up the question of why the heck the NoS was moved to Glantri, in the first place! Someone on the list (can't recall who) already proposed that Blackmoor's mixed human/elf colony in Glantri was established as a mining outpost, after Thonia's mineral resources were exhausted. Maybe those immense tunnel-networks of the Broken Lands and shadow-elf territories REALLY started out as gargantuan mines excavated by Blackmoor - -- which explains how the shadow elves' ancestors knew where to run, to get underground -- and the Beagle's reactor was transported to Brun, because that's where late-era Blackmoor was getting its uranium and processing it into fissionable material. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:45:18 -0500 From: Muaadeeb Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Very much so. The canon place for Blackmoor was set in thonia in the HW boxed set. The "Glantri" setting was brough about because of the position of the NoS, and by an erroneous placement of the traveller's Inn. But AFAIK, Thonia is the official place. Ethan >>> I also remember a reference to Blackmoor in an old module....Temple of the Frog or something like that. Well...Thonia it is...;-) Thanks, muaa Attachment Converted: "D:\EUDORA\attach\WINMAIL1.DAT" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 18:53:11 EDT From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Esterhold and Dragons In a message dated 10/4/98 7:27:14 AM, you wrote: <> Nice eye for detail! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 18:58:26 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Binary attachments (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor) In a message dated 1998-10-04 18:21:41 Eastern Daylight Time, muaadeeb@comic.net writes: > File: WINMAIL.DAT (2145 bytes) > DL Time (32000 bps): < 1 minute Please quit sending this crap with your e-mail messages. You should send only text to a mailing list like this one. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 21:38:17 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor On Sun, 4 Oct 1998, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > that Blackmoor becme the north pole and Evergrun, the south. But then it I tend to disagree only on the basis that if you rotate the world map in the HW set, Thonia becomes close to the north pole, but not all of it is at the north pole. The same with Evergrun. However, Ka's actions may have cleaned up a lot of Blackmoor's fallout. > underground -- and the Beagle's reactor was transported to Brun, because > that's where late-era Blackmoor was getting its uranium and processing it > into fissionable material. According to HW, and i think WOTI, The reactor was moved ther by an old one. Maybe to kep it safe from impending doom at the hands of the GRoF, or maybe from meddling by humans after the beagle blew up. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 21:39:56 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor On Sun, 4 Oct 1998, Muaadeeb wrote: >>begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT Please turn this off in your mailer. Some of us have UNIX systems or other, that don't support HTML, or any M$ addition to email :) Thnx! Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 18:47:06 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor >Very much so. The canon place for Blackmoor was set in thonia in the HW >boxed set. > >The "Glantri" setting was brough about because of the position of the NoS, >and by an erroneous placement of the traveller's Inn. > >But AFAIK, Thonia is the official place. Yes, Blackmoor was actually a breakaway state from a large, adjacent empire ("King" Stefan has historical precedent) called Thonia. One problem given the "Modern" maps arises however: in all of the Blackmoor adventurers, Thonia is very definately south of Blackmoor, whereas the maps indicate Blackmoor being south of Thonia. The MML FAQ addresses this question by someone whose name I can't remember, but I agree with Anonymous: an archeologist placing Blackmoor would be hard pressed to find it. "In the beginning, there was darkness, but before there was darkness, there was Frog" - St. Stephen Nicholas Hudson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 18:52:17 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor >This brings up the question of why the heck the NoS was moved to Glantri, >in the first place! Someone on the list (can't recall who) already >proposed that Blackmoor's mixed human/elf colony in Glantri was established >as a mining outpost, after Thonia's mineral resources were exhausted. >Maybe those immense tunnel-networks of the Broken Lands and shadow-elf >territories REALLY started out as gargantuan mines excavated by Blackmoor >-- which explains how the shadow elves' ancestors knew where to run, to get >underground -- and the Beagle's reactor was transported to Brun, because >that's where late-era Blackmoor was getting its uranium and processing it >into fissionable material. An interesting theory, but my reading of WotI led me to conclude that Blackmoor wasn't truly responsible for the catacylsmic Rain of Fire; from the description given of Benekander's efforts, it seems as though the Rain of Fire was caused by the alien diplomat's attempts to remove the reactor: Blackmoor neither knew of nor used the reactor, and suffered from someone else's mistake. The NoS could have been moved by either the Old One or Noumena, or...perhaps Blackmoor really was located on Brun, and the Immortals, in an effort to subvert any mortals attempts to rebuild the forbidden technology, have misled all scholars into thinking it was located on Skothar. "In the beginning, there was darkness, but before there was darkness, there was Frog" - St. Stephen Nicholas Hudson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 19:11:49 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor > >>>begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT Is this thing an attachment I can't open, or are we being spammed?? Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 22:49:58 -0500 From: Muaadeeb Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor People. I do not know why my mailing has done this. I have posted multiple times to many lists and this if the first time I have become aware of a problem. There was electrical interference out side which may have attributed to the problem. If this continues I shall not post again. Thank you for your patience, Muaadeeb - -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Favia [SMTP:valerya@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, October 04, 1998 9:12 PM To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor > >>>begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT Is this thing an attachment I can't open, or are we being spammed?? Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. Attachment Converted: "D:\EUDORA\attach\WINMAIL2.DAT" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #665 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, October 5 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 666 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: RE: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods [MYSTARA] - Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical Ability Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Re: Binary attachments (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor) Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Re: [MYSTARA] - Gnomes of th elements Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate [MYSTARA] - Mythril Re: [MYSTARA] - [OFF TOPIC] resend - IT'S A BOY!!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 23:42:35 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor At 10:49 PM 10/4/98 -0500, Muaadeeb wrote: >People. I do not know why my mailing has done this. I have posted >multiple times to many lists and this if the first time I have become aware >of a problem. There was electrical interference out side which may have >attributed to the problem. If this continues I shall not post again. I couldn't tell what type email program you use but search for a MIME option (I think Windows Messaging doesn't offer an option) and turn it off or change to something different. It's just an attachment MS thought everyone would like :) This has been a Galwylin® Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 00:14:20 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor > > People. I do not know why my mailing has done this. I have posted > multiple times to many lists and this if the first time I have become aware > of a problem. There was electrical interference out side which may have > attributed to the problem. > Well, a topic about Blackmoor is a good one to have electrical interference on 8-)~ > If this continues I shall not post again. > Kind of an extreme solution, I hope it isn't warranted. . . *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:56:15 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Blackmoor...where is it? ah the age old question. i usually go with the up north approach as the location for blackmoor city. however, i would stress that blackmoor occupied a sizable chunk of the northern hemisphere with the enevitable expansion the tech era blackmoor would have needed for the resources to fuel their industries. so if you want to uncover a blackmoor settlement/city...your options are rather open. if you want to introduce the ruins of blackmoor city...then that becomes more difficult. hmm....that would be interesting. imagine if separate parties uncover what they claim to be blackmoor city in totally different places. what were the names of those two RW turn of the century archeologists? they had a big rivalry and would often sabotage each others digs. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:00:21 +0200 (EET DST) From: Anias Pasi Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards Fabrizzio wrote: > At 19.15 30/09/98 +0200, Andrés Piquer Otero wrote: > >Council is open to 36th lvl MUs only, although, as I have stated in > >previous messages, it would be rare to find 1000 members (or even a close > >number) in historical Alphatia. > Here I disagree. Alphatia is big and old, there're many adventurers in the > Empire and it's not unbelievable that at least 2000 mages reached 36th lvl > in the last 2000 years, i.e. from when Alphatians arrived on Mystara until > the Gaz era. Some of them may have died, but many of them are still > alive thanks to longevity potions. I think this is the sixth or something time this subject has come up... And once again I'll disagree. Someone allready wrote about the problems with longevity potions. When used in this scale they are not reliable enough (Wasn't it 1 in ten thet didnt work... if you use ten (get 10x10 years I think) the possibility of getting killed is 65%). Also If one looks into the known Alphatian persons, none of them is wery old. Even the ruling family, which surely has all the potions they need, dont have wery old members. Furthermore, some of the mages would not use the potions. After all it is a ethic problem... But anyway, here are the calculations again: Suppose an average age for the mages would be 100 years. This includes all mages that reach the counsil. An probable figure I would say. There 'are' 1000 mages. Each living 100 years. that means ten will die per year and need to be raplaced. During the 2000 year reign (not counting the while the counsil wasn't full) there should have been 20 000 mages of the highest level... (enough said?) And consider this too... How many mages (in percentage) of all mages would be at the highest level? surely not 1/36? I would suggest that the ratio of 1st level mages would be greatest? say 100 1st levelers per one 36th? and a straight line frome there? it would figure up to some 2000 mages per one mage in 36th level and 2 000 000 mages all together. The population given to alphatia in DoE is something around 6 000 000... And for those puritanist who say only mages in counsil, this doesnt even count clerics, paladins etc... Would you make 1/3 of a nation nobles? I say again, as I have said many times before. The idea of 1000 36th level mages in a counsil is ridigilous. (As is the idea of the isle of slaras or what ever). There are basicly no 36 th level persons mentioned in mystara before DoE. It has been the most stupid idea ever to make up something like this. i could easily believe, that the makers of DoE are players of FR... anybody present? IMC the line says: Any mage of 36th level is entitle to a seat in the counsil, as soon as one gets free (as said up there at least 10 will get free per year), if they want. The rest of the counsil are just mages, although at name levels (9-36). And there have been spokespersons for some countries, that arent even mages. i thik this is even more in the line with the thing said about haldebaran no-Mans-Fool, who is often asked and asked again to join the counsil. Who would be interested with 1000 similars allready in? And for those interested, before sinking there were some 10 mages of 36th level in my counsil... Anyway. Its just my opinion. It is your game after all. Pasi - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 09:47:32 +0200 (METDST) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, Galwylin wrote: > Yep. I saw that conflict between Val and Freyja which is why I went with > Freyja representing the stable form of love. Val's the Immortal to call on > if you're going into the red light district and Freyja's the one if you're > looking for a mate. And I wanted to avoid an Immortal cat-fight ;> Though I would probably solve that conflict by having Freyja representing a more physical kind of love, and Valerias a more intellectual one (IMO, Freyja is not really a good representant of stable love, if you look at how she is portrayed by norse mythilogy). Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:00:29 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, àéìï ùçí wrote: > > >This ios interesting. I have always wanted a god of magic, and Rad didnt > >seem to fit that role very well actually. > > Alphatia is a godess of magic. so is Razud and other Alphatian > immortals (Palarakatan?) . If you dont like Rad or the Alph immortals > you can always use Ilsundal. (as I do for some cultures IMC- espcialy > in Darokin). good points > >Forseti/Forsetta is a Frisian god. He was believed to be the son of > >Baldur/Balder. IMC I'm simply making him Balder. > > As much as I like norse mythology I think we have too much norse > originating immortals. IMO the Odin-Thor-Loky-Hel quartet is enough > (I think Hel is the best entropic). Point is, Forseti is actually a norse immortal. However its next to impossible to find much info on him. Thats why I want the Forseti=Baldur thingy. Besides, forsetis king, aspect seems to overlap with one of Odin's many roles. In fact this is one of the things I dislike about the Mystara Norse Immortals. Odin has been extremely reduced. He is the God of the spear, the God of Magic, the God of Berserkers, The God of Death, The God of Wisdom etc. IMO, this diversity is what makes this deity so interesting. On mystara he only seems to be the god of wisdom :( Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:07:07 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Spilling hos meg kl 18:00 i mårra (dvs tirsdag) ?? Har Harald kommet tilbake fra tur? mvh, Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 04:26:29 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor At 01:56 AM 10/5/98 EDT, Alex295@aol.com wrote: > >hmm....that would be interesting. imagine if separate parties uncover what >they claim to be blackmoor city in totally different places. Jenn had talked about before Blackmoor exploded/vaporized/etc. that maybe the Isle of Dawk was attached to Alphatia's southern tip. What if Blackmoor was located in the Eastern Sea of Dawn? The explosion could have blasted the land apart the creating the separate continents of Alphatia, Bellissaria, and the Isle of Dawn. Or blasted them off Skothar. If the explosion was mighty enough to shift the whole planet's axis (it was nearer the equator before perhaps), I would think there would be nothing left to discover plus a very large hole. Unless, its filled with the ocean. Just a thought. This has been a Galwylin® Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 04:46:08 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Old Immortals, New Gods I agree that Odin isn't exactly what he was in myth. Not only him but the whole pantheon almost. I've also found they overlap frequently. And the myths aren't consistent. Almost every known god that I included in my pantheon has had one of my friends to say "But he's was the god of xxxx" and you can find a reference that supports that. Boy, and folks thought TSR didn't keep inconsistencies out too well :) I've just about decided to scrap every known god and just use the unique Immortals from Mystara. Their flexable enough you can add to their area of concern. Gods.. what a headache for a little side project ;> This has been a Galwylin® Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 02:56:03 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Magical Ability >Er -- what required minimums? While most Immortals do spend PPs to >improve their ability scores, I have been unable to find anything in WotI >that requires them to do so. > IIrc in the `real` Immortal rules you had to have all of your greater talents at 25 for Temporal, 50 for Celestial, 75 for the next one (I`ve forgotten the order again), and 100 for the two highest. since your talents were your stats that were supposed to matter for your class and it was 20PP per point increase at initiate level, rising at higher levels, having a 9 in one of the other two apart from your prime requisite could be very expensive. Hamlet 1,v,166 Paul P.s. again I`m late responding just because I`m greedy, my contract gives me auto double pay plus expenses if working outside so I`ll keep on taking the money from them. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:17:30 +0200 (EET DST) From: Anias Pasi Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Galwylin wrote > This is really where I and the canon sources differ. I still can't see why > Karameikos is so wild and untamed when its 1) a coastal nation 2) > surrounded by nations quite advanced for the time period. With Thyatis on > one side and Darokan and Glantri on the other, it should have been tamed > years ago. I'd say that You haven't quite understood the situation. 1. Darokin and Glantri are both quite far away from karameikos, and are quite Young as nations go. neither do they need more space. 2. Thyatis then has had a lot of problems at their eastern flank, and would never have wanted to get into war west too, excpecially as at that time it seemed that the country had quite little to offer: wood (which they had, and which is hard to move around) and wildgame only. There is no gold in karameikos, and it has little strategic importance as long as there are no roads. The orcs are not said to have bothered the thyatis either. Maybe some attacs against the bordering elves, who would not be like to complain to the emperor. To tame a land like Karameikos isn't quite as easy as You make it sound. the distances are far apart and not so well mapped. There are hordes of orcs goblins and worse. And the natives weren't so happy about being made citizents either. It would have been a costly war to tame the land, and it would take a long time. Just take a look how long it has taken karameikos to tame even the areas wich he has. Years of work, and they only hold the areas, that are the most easy to move into (by rivers). And this is done only with the help of the natives, which karameikos has won to his side much thanks to his personal power. The rest of Karameikos will go untamed for long time, as there are enough 'lebenstraum' in the current areas for the current population. If the population grows or if the humanoids start giving trouble maybe karameikos can speed the proces, but otherwise its one step at a time. if one looks into the RW history, one can see, that there has been many areas (big and small) that have stayed uncivilized regardles of the surrounding civilization. Only when it has became to be crowded has big movements occured, or when some major resourses have been found. Pasi - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:55:10 +0200 (EET DST) From: Anias Pasi Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan > So I think the issue here is, was Stefan so "blind" to > the evils of his cousin that he would not even listen > to Olivia? Or is the whole "dull-witted saint" thing an act? It is said that Karameikos is abit naive when it comes to those close to him. Hes goodhearted good man, who likes to think others to be such too. But that doesn't mean that he's stupid. You are saying that karameikos should have seen hendriks to what he is. But how so? think about the whole picture. You know how the thinks are, but forget it, and just tjink about what karameikos knows. you have just taken hold of a nation. With You came many loyal soldiers and friends, some of whom fought beside him, some elsewhere on the area. After the 'invasion', if one can call it so, the situation is not yet quite stable. Some natives, excpesially the old nobles still dont like the idea of thyatian overlords, regardles of Your efforts. there are minor rebellions, some assasination attempts, and of cource complaints. The natives come to you saying their overlords abuse them. the native would be rulers come to you, speaking honey, but you hear rumors of their deeds behind scenes. Some rumors, excpecially are a bit disturbing. there is one remote barony, where rules a man, who You know to be loyal to You. A man who fought beside you, and was given the barony, because the trus you have for him. You hear that he abuses the peasants. Some rumors say, that he tries to deny their religion. You hear that he has executed some peasants over some crime, or petty crime as some say. Some rumors even say, that there are a lot of humanoids in the area (as everywhere), and that he isnt really doing enough to drive them away. What do YOU do. believe the rumors? The same rumors come from everywhere, even if more from this place than elsewhere. But the man is trusted ally! One who actually could became the King someday himself. You dont have time to go and see. It would be wery uncounth to send someone to inspect. And the place is rather far away. yes, i am speaking of Barony of Kelvin. these are actual rumors that would come south river. After all, kelvin is rather vigorous in his worship. And it is reasonable to say that most of the rumors would come from Kelvin, as to it there is most traffic. Black Eagle is even farther away. There is wery little traffic, excapt by merchants supported by hendrics. And hendriks is Your cousin, so he's even more trustworthy than kelvin, who is anyway a cleric. I hope I made myself clear. Karameikos is not living in the information age we are on. They dont have internet, tv or phonenetwork. The information you get is mostly secon-or thirdhand. Or written. And most peasants could't write to you, let alone dare, as You are the unknown cousin of an evil overlord. After karameikos is taken into Black Eagle by the hin to see himself the situation is of course a bit different. now he knows. Pasi P.S. Last winter, We had a long series of games that involved this problemacy. The players in that campaign are/were wery new to the hobby, and didn't KNOW so much as to use that knowledge in the game. They stumbled into a dead messanger, from kelvin to karameikos accusing hendrics of forgery. Thanks to an Infamous mage and his magics, they even saw a man, resembling kelvin himself to go and oversee the mint once. This lead to many evening of gaming (there were some interwening sideplots) during wich the layers tried to get to know both barons, and to solve the mystery. The wote came to 3 against 1, in defence of Hendricks. In the games, they heard many bad rumors of both. And verifyed many of these. f.eg. hendrics did have two peasants hanging from the wall outside castle doom, but all evidence said they were criminals. Maybe the punishment was harsh, but it was within reasonable limits. One of the girls even ended up falling for the handsome and well manoured Ludvig (who dumbed her after the players had testifyed against kelvin, but mainly because he found out that the character was an illegitimate child). None of them came to like the uncouth and over religious Kelvin. Happily enough the one tief who did see thru hendricks facade got a word for Queen Karameikos, who then told king, that this case wasn't as clear as the testimony of the three showed it. neither is yet punished of the forgery, but maybe some day. (Actually the Mint was hendricks) - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 07:35:07 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: Binary attachments (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor) Ya think we could respond a tad more responsibly? Come on, let's keep up our reputation as the friendliest mailing list!* Alot of people sign on to this as their first mailing list, and they don't know squat about netiquette and must learn through trial and error. Others know plenty but do not know about some of the odd little quirks that a specific mail package or program may have. *Designation as "friendliest mailing list" is the sole opinion of the writer and does not suggest any relationship with TSR, MML, or any of the concerned parties. Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1998-10-04 18:21:41 Eastern Daylight Time, > muaadeeb@comic.net writes: > > > File: WINMAIL.DAT (2145 bytes) > > DL Time (32000 bps): < 1 minute > > Please quit sending this crap with your e-mail messages. > You should send only text to a mailing list like this one. > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 04:49:40 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Hi Mystaran, >From: Anias Pasi >Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:17:30 +0200 (EET DST) >I'd say that You haven't quite understood the situation. >1. Darokin and Glantri are both quite far away from karameikos, and are >quite Young as nations go. neither do they need more space. Glantri is even very far in my opinion ... Ylaruam might feel the land to cold, and Rockhome too full of human ;o) >2. Thyatis then has had a lot of problems at their eastern flank, and >would never have wanted to get into war west too, excpecially as >at that time it seemed that the country had quite little to offer: >wood (which they had, and which is hard to move around) and wildgame only. >There is no gold in karameikos, and it has little strategic importance as >long as there are no roads. No gold in Karameikos ? !!! Have you read in the expert box what kind of trade the duke was used to do in Treshold ? I remember he used Treshold to make his own gold pieces (Treshold was the midway beetween Specularium and the mines)... To be verified ... Friendly, Marcus From an old adventurer : "Beware dragon-breath as a dragon is just behind ..." Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT à mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:00:15 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gnomes of th elements On Sun, 4 Oct 1998, àéìï ùçí wrote: > a while back I got an idea for gnomish culture and racial traits to be related to the elemental plains. I probably got that from somone on the list so dont be angry at me for pilfering someone's thoughts. > The idea is that there are four groups of gnomes : > the earth gnomes- living near Rockhome > the skygnomes- living in Serraine and Ootsdok > the sea gnomes > the fire gnomes (or Ice gnomes as they are referd to on the players map.) I had a somewhat similar idea. It involved dividing the gnomes into colors: Green gnomes: forest/plant Brown: forest/animals Blue: sky White: ice gnomes Gray: researchers, inventors Yellow: interested in gems, trade. Green: Sea gnomes (I had that idea too, but i never developed it) The idea was that these were social groups, rather than cultures, however, some cultures would be dominated by certain social groups... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Ah Gandhi! What a Mensch. And he looked good in a robe too!" -Douglas Wambaugh, Picket Fences. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 06:38:28 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia the Uberstate > Not if the DM wants his/her favorite villian to have an edge, so to >speak... > In that case `Death Spell` once/round should do the job since there`s no save unless i`ve got another typo in my rules <;-P Hamlet 1,v,166 Paul ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 09:19:45 -0500 From: Allen Barrett Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mythril I would like to find out about mythril steel. I couldn't find any rules in the core that deal with it. How does it rank with adamantite? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 07:44:28 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [OFF TOPIC] resend - IT'S A BOY!!! Just thought I`d add my congrats. to all those you`ve recieved. Your in for many wonderful moments in the years to come. My two are teenagers now and they have a very overdeveloped interest in boys. Even so it`s the best thing in my life by far Hamlet 1,v,166 Paul ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 08:11:38 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan >>Now, the real question is how did Hendrick's >>activities remain hidden to >>Olivia? ;D >So I think the issue here is, was Stefan so "blind" to >the evils of his cousin that he would not even listen >to Olivia? Or is the whole "dull-witted saint" thing an act? > Bargle? Hamlet 1,v,166 Paul ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 08:33:48 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor >>I wondering specifically if the Isle of Dawn was >>farther south, north, or connected to Brun :) > >You know, the two of us were discussing that just a >couple of days ago; it occurred to us that the IoD >might have been connected to Alphatia (in the >southeast). Anybody? > IIrc there`s a map of precataclysm Mystara in HW box. There`s no connection to elsewhere and IIrc IoD was originally closer to equator. Hamlet 1,v,166 Paul ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 08:53:47 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor >> If this continues I shall not post again. >> >Kind of an extreme solution, I hope it isn't warranted. . . I, for one, would be willing to ignore it, now that it's clear that it's a glitch. Immortals know I've had my share of e-mail problems! :-) Don't leave the list. Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #666 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, October 5 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 667 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: RE: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Gnomes of th elements Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Gnomes of th elements Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Gnomes of th elements Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Alph Currency markings &tc. Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Alph Currency markings &tc. [MYSTARA] - Microsoft Mail Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Alph Currency markings &tc. Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Alph Currency markings &tc. Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan RE: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:56:50 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor On Sun, 4 Oct 1998, Nicholas Hudson wrote: > An interesting theory, but my reading of WotI led me to conclude > that Blackmoor wasn't truly responsible for the catacylsmic Rain of > Fire; from the description given of Benekander's efforts, it seems as > though the Rain of Fire was caused by the alien diplomat's attempts to > remove the reactor: Blackmoor neither knew of nor used the reactor, and nope. WoTI doen't say that. The great rain of fire was caused LONG after the beagle blew up, when Blackmoor rediscovered the principles on which the beagle's engines worked. (The Immortal's Fury, page 15 (I think). Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:03:46 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gnomes of th elements On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: [snip] Why must there be different "colors" for cultures among demi-humans. (grey elves, green elves, etc. come to mind) Why don't we just all beleive that there are 2 kinds of gnomes, as listed in PC2 -> Skygnomes and Gnomes. Ethan - Gnomes are Davania's thing anyway ;) - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 09:12:31 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor >The explosion could have >blasted the land apart the creating the separate >continents of Alphatia, >Bellissaria, and the Isle of Dawn. Or blasted them >off Skothar. If the >explosion was mighty enough to shift the whole >planet's axis (it was nearer >the equator before perhaps), I would think there would >be nothing left to >discover plus a very large hole. Unless, its filled >with the ocean. Just a thought. Interesting. I like the idea, personally, just because it's original. There's real no reason why this could not have happened (IMO); of course, you Do know that you've just become a hopeless heretic to the Blackmoorians on the list! :-) An alternate explanation could have B;ackmoor in the traditional location, but the three subcontinents still connected. Would a fourth continent (Alphatia, IoD, and Bellissaria together) be likely to have been populated? My first inclination would be to say yes, since I doubt a large land mass halfway between Blackmoor and Evergrun could go unnoticed for long. Jenn valerya@hotmail.com Valerya@webtv.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ "The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so much as to make settled things strange." (GK Chesterton) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 18:29:12 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan < much snipped > > as there are enough 'lebenstraum' in the current areas for the current "Sieg Heil" and "Heil Hitler" :-c "Lebensraum" is one of the words we don't use any longer. Jamuga Khan "...." (Minute of Silence) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 15:21:08 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards At 18.52 04/10/98 +0200, Andrés Piquer Otero wrote: >Have you taken into account the cumulative chances of malfunction for a >longevity potion or the rarity of its components? Ok, but longevity potions are just one of the many ways to lenghtening someone's life, raise-dead spells and comebacks from Limbo are 2 other options. Not to mention other strange methods, such as becoming an undead (a la Morphail), time-traveling (a la Haldemar).... Note: Alphatian population is n-th times the Glantrian one, so, in theory, we should have n Morphail-like NPCs in Alphatia. >We know of two Alphatian Immortals (Ar and Alphatia) which >took the Path of the Parangon... how many else have tried and failed? They >would have surely done a good clean-up of top-level MUs. Sure, though IMO a smart MU would never set off on the Path of Paragon in a land full of MUs. It's silly. Either you move elsewhere, like Barimoor (and Terari), or you choose a different path. >Longevity is fine, but it does not keep at bay sickness, accidents (and >Alphatians mages engage in rather hazardous ventures, with >creature-summoning, magical engineering and plane-walking) nor >conspiration. I agree with you in that in the last 2000 years 2000 >Alphatians could have reached 36 level, but it does not imply that they all >survived to the present, nor that they were willing to join the Council >(the famous "Alphatian individualism"). Maybe they were selected, but never attended a single meeting. Moreover it's difficult to say when a 36-th level mage is dead, maybe he's away (time-traveling, plane-walking...). What about Immortals in mortal forms attending the council? Maybe Rad too did attend council meetings during WotI :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 11:58:03 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gnomes of th elements At 12:03 PM 10/5/98 -0400, SteelAngel wrote: > >Why must there be different "colors" for cultures among demi-humans. (grey >elves, green elves, etc. come to mind) Probably for the same reason there are different colors of humans, to reflect diversity. After all, in game terms, there isn't a reason for separate races of humans :) This has been a Galwylin® Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 12:15:15 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor At 09:12 AM 10/5/98 PDT, Jennifer Favia wrote: > >Interesting. I like the idea, personally, just because >it's original. There's real no reason why this could >not have happened (IMO); of course, you Do know that >you've just become a hopeless heretic to the >Blackmoorians on the list! :-) That must explain the feeling I keep getting holy water throwed in my direction ;> >An alternate explanation >could have B;ackmoor in the traditional location, but >the three subcontinents still connected. Would a fourth >continent (Alphatia, IoD, and Bellissaria together) be >likely to have been populated? My first inclination >would be to say yes, since I doubt a large land mass >halfway between Blackmoor and Evergrun could go >unnoticed for long. Well, if humans first appeared near the equator (like so many theories about real world humans hold), the name Isle of Dawn maybe more descriptive than first thought. So, I'd say it would have been populated as one of the cradles of human civilization with Blackmoor gaining more promienence as its culture grew because of the Beagle's landing. Just some more wild guessing :) This has been a Galwylin® Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 13:15:30 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gnomes of th elements Personally, I thought it was a neat idea. Go ahead and develop it! SteelAngel wrote: > > On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > > [snip] > > Why must there be different "colors" for cultures among demi-humans. (grey > elves, green elves, etc. come to mind) > > Why don't we just all beleive that there are 2 kinds of gnomes, as listed > in PC2 -> Skygnomes and Gnomes. > > Ethan - Gnomes are Davania's thing anyway ;) > > -- > Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 > www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 11:02:13 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor >IIrc there`s a map of precataclysm Mystara in HW box. There`s no >connection to elsewhere and IIrc IoD was originally closer to equator. > Thanks, but I think we both understood the canon position. We were speculating on a non-canon alternative. Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 11:08:07 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor >That must explain the feeling I keep getting holy water throwed in my >direction ;> :-)...Imagine how I feel, with all these clerics pounding down my door... >Well, if humans first appeared near the equator (like so many theories >about real world humans hold), the name Isle of Dawn maybe more descriptive >than first thought. So, I'd say it would have been populated as one of the >cradles of human civilization with Blackmoor gaining more promienence as >its culture grew because of the Beagle's landing. > >Just some more wild guessing :) Well, I like it. A lot more interesting stuff for the time-travelers. Jenn valerya@hotmail.com Valerya@webtv.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ "The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so much as to make settled things strange." (GK Chesterton) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:26:06 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Alph Currency markings &tc. > > > "Lebensraum" is one of the words we don't use any longer. > I suppose the mint marks on Alphatian currency also brings up painful memories. If there was ever a good reason to root that Germany never wins the World Cup again, it is so no one will have to hear the forbidden verse of the Anthem again. Btw, anyone got any ideas for more reformed/"enlightened" Alphatian currency markings. If the place is going to be panglossian, they really shouldn't have the current motto, it is kind of "in your face" intolerant. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:37:50 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, Jennifer Favia wrote: > Thanks, but I think we both understood the canon position. We were > speculating on a non-canon alternative. There is no non-canon! To say else is heresy! :) "A witch! burn her! burn her!" Ethan - said solely in jest. - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 18:54:52 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan >You are saying that karameikos should have seen hendriks to what he is. >But how so? think about the whole picture. You know how the thinks are, >but forget it, and just tjink about what karameikos knows. > Well, when your cousin lives in a place called something like 'Fort Doom', you would be stupid not to have some suspicions :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:39:42 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Alph Currency markings &tc. Sorry to respond to my own post, but it got me to reminising about an old campaign anecdote. > > Btw, anyone got any ideas for more reformed/"enlightened" Alphatian > currency markings. If the place is going to be panglossian, they really > shouldn't have the current motto, it is kind of "in your face" intolerant. > A long time ago after playing "Into the Maelstorm" the PCs (dudes favoring Norwoldian independance) scattered a couple million vintiage "Emperor Alphaks" copper peices into the trade lanes and the bigger Alph. cities (which would turn out to have been Draco, Aasla, and Sundsvall, but this was pre-DotE), to beggars and common folk, where the coins ended up reaching a wide audience. It was a mild (but amusing and humiliating) embarassment to the Alphatian government, which then tried (with mixed success) to remove the coins in question from circulation. Kind of put off several Alph. trade partners, temporarily. Was more ammusing than effective, but it certainly was a creative use of copper pieces. 8-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:43:36 -0700 From: "Harvey, MichaelX" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Microsoft Mail On Sunday, October 04, 1998 8:50 PM, muaadeeb@comic.net [SMTP:muaadeeb@comic.net] wrote: > People. I do not know why my mailing has done this. I have posted > multiple times to many lists and this if the first time I have become > aware of a problem. There was electrical interference out side which > may have attributed to the problem. If this continues I shall not > post again. > > > Thank you for your patience, > > > Muaadeeb Microsoft Mail likes to send things in Rich Text Format, which is pretty nonstandard. Whenever you send mail to the internet, make sure you disable the RTF option. I am stuck using MS Outlook, and here is how I do it: Right-click on the address (mystara-l@mpgn.com) in the "to" field of the header, select Properties. This brings up a dialog with a check-box labeled "Always Send to this Recipient in Microsoft Outlook rich text format". Disable this checkbox... this will force the mailer to send the message as plain text. (In the address book, you can set the properties for each email address individually). I don't know the specifics of your particular MS mail program, but there should a similar option. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:51:31 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan > > > Well, when your cousin lives in a place called something like 'Fort Doom', you would be stupid not to have some suspicions :) > Well, I think it comes from how Stefan defines "good" To paraphrase what someone else wrote: Stefan views himself as a goodhearted man (defines himself, a priori, as "good"). Thus, anything he does is by his definition good. Therefore, if he appoints Ludwig von Hendrix as a noble, then that is by definition (to him) a good act. Of course this is pathological, but from Stefan's point of view it makes perfect sense. Once you define yourself as good, and thus assume that everything you do is good because of that, then it would follow that you could never have done anything bad, like appoint an evil noble to rule a fief in your name. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 22:16:35 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards At 10.00 05/10/98 +0200, Anias Pasi wrote: First, let me say that I don't care about the number and level of mages in the Council, so I reply just because I like this discussion :-) After all, as Alex already pointed out, the council is just "a game tool to display the magical might of Alphatia" and doesn't usually "come into play in the average campaign." >Someone allready wrote about the problems with longevity potions. >When used in this scale they are not reliable enough (Wasn't it 1 in ten >thet didnt work... if you use ten (get 10x10 years I think) the >possibility of getting killed is 65%). Where's this from? I just looked the description of the longevity potion in the RC and found nothing about reliability. Elsewhere in the RC I found rules for aging, but they're optional. Anyway, if longevity fails you can always have your trusted cleric cast raise dead. BTW: have a look at page 14 of the "Player's Guide to Alphatia" of DotE, there's a short paragraph about Age and longevity. >Also If one looks into the known Alphatian persons, none of them is wery >old. Even the ruling family, which surely has all the potions they need, >dont have wery old members. This could be a good point, but could also be meaningless because the number of Alphatian NPC in the sourcebooks is negligible if compared to 1000 mages. >Furthermore, some of the mages would not use the potions. After all >it is a ethic problem... Ok, though I've rarely seen PCs having "ethic problems" :-) >But anyway, here are the calculations again: > > Suppose an average age for the mages would be 100 years. This includes >all mages that reach the counsil. An probable figure I would say. > >There 'are' 1000 mages. Each living 100 years. that means ten will die >per year and need to be raplaced. During the 2000 year reign (not counting >the while the counsil wasn't full) there should have been 20 000 mages of >the highest level... (enough said?) 10 36th levelers per year doesn't seem (to me) out of place in magic-oriented Alphatia, though probably 5 is more realistic. Maybe we should consider also non-alphatian mages that move to Alphatia. >And consider this too... How many mages (in percentage) of all mages would >be at the highest level? surely not 1/36? I would suggest that the >ratio of 1st level mages would be greatest? say 100 1st levelers per one >36th? I would say 1000 1st levelers per one 36th. >and a straight line frome there? Probably not, most will stop at level 2-3. Anyway let's go on. >it would figure up to some >2000 mages per one mage in 36th level and 2 000 000 mages all together. >The population given to alphatia in DoE is something around 6 000 000... > >And for those puritanist who say only mages in counsil, this doesnt >even count clerics, paladins etc... > >Would you make 1/3 of a nation nobles? Why not if nobility is something that depends on your skills and not on your blood? Something like making all RW graduated people nobles. >I say again, as I have said many times before. The idea of 1000 36th >level mages in a counsil is ridigilous. (As is the idea of the >isle of slaras or what ever). There are basicly no 36 th level >persons mentioned in mystara before DoE. It has been the most >stupid idea ever to make up something like this. i could easily >believe, that the makers of DoE are players of FR... anybody present? The 1000 36th level mages are first mentioned in CM1, not DotE. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:22:51 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Alph Currency markings &tc. > Btw, anyone got any ideas for more reformed/"enlightened" Alphatian > currency markings. If the place is going to be panglossian, they really > shouldn't have the current motto, it is kind of "in your face" intolerant. I do not see the point in seeing "Alphatia above all" / "ALPHATIA ILA KALLIM" as an intolerant motto. It may be if it is read as an imperialistic slogan, but I think that, according to Alphatian inner politics, it was more of a political desideratum: "the interests of our nation, Alphatia, must be above any petty individualistic or regional goals". It fits nice with a more-or-less federal Empire, composed of a number of heterogeneous kingdoms. The motto on a common and daily tool as currency is should remember citizens of that ideal: above Aquas, Vertiloch, Ambur, Bellisaria, Esterhold... the interest of Alphatia rules supreme (although it rarely did). It is akin to US patriotism (from Hawaii to New England there are many differences and peculiarities, but I have found no American citizen without -at least- a spark of patriotism) and it is logical to find it in Germany´s anthem (it is a Federal Republic, after all). So, IMO, even in the NACE the motto is good: "regional identity is OK, but let us keep in mind that our nation has important common goals". Andrés (citizen of one of the oldest monarchies in the world, now at the verge of becoming a Federal State AND I AM NOT TALKING OF ALPHATIA!) . *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 17:05:47 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Alph Currency markings &tc. > > I do not see the point in seeing "Alphatia above all" / "ALPHATIA ILA > KALLIM" as an intolerant motto. It may be if it is read as an imperialistic > slogan, but I think that, according to Alphatian inner politics, > > Very creative, and fits well into the tendancy of Alphatiaphiles to re-define everything Alphatia-related in the best of all possible lights (now you see why I mentioned "Panglosian). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 18:28:18 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Oh come on. Duke Stephen knew his cousin was young and a bit goofy. Even a bit of a "munchkin". But does naming your castle "Fort Doom" mean you are necessarily naughty? At 06:54 PM 10/5/98 +0300, you wrote: >>You are saying that karameikos should have seen hendriks to what he is. >>But how so? think about the whole picture. You know how the thinks are, >>but forget it, and just tjink about what karameikos knows. >> >Well, when your cousin lives in a place called something like 'Fort Doom', you would be stupid not to have some suspicions :) > >****************** >Aleksei Andrievski >aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star >solmyr@kolumbus.fi >Visit the Archmage's Tower at >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html > > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 19:58:19 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor > >>Very much so. The canon place for Blackmoor was set in Thonia in the HW >>boxed set. > Yup. Although Bruce Heard said that the labels "Blackmoor" and "Thonia" were mixed up. Blackmoor should be where Thonia is, and vice versa. Mind you, this is only "canon", so it, like everything else in Mystara, can be warped to yuor heart's content.. ;-) Sharon said: >With all the descriptions that the HW set gives of these events, it says >that Blackmoor becme the north pole and Evergrun, the south. But then it >also says Ka created the polar openings shortly after the GRoF, so perhaps >the original land masses of the two technological powers aren't there any >more. > Could be. I also remember somewhere reading that there used to be a couple of smaller polar openings where the north and south poles used to be. These were closed after the Planetshift, and the new ones were created. As an interesting point, note that, in the HW boxed set, the northernmost reaches of Skothar actually reach deep into the dark zone between surface and HW, so that, assuming Blackmoor is north of Thonia (as all sources say), and comparing the locations where Blackmoor used to be and what Skothar looks like today, I have calculated that Blackmoor exists on the northernmost reaches of the Nentsun Peninsula (the northern tip of Skothar). Assuming that this is the case, then Blackmoor lies in the dark region, almost inside the HW itself! This also fits in with the description of the HW Beastmen, in which it is said that they rested in what was Blackmoor for a time, on their way into the HW. >This brings up the question of why the heck the NoS was moved to Glantri, >in the first place! Someone on the list (can't recall who) already >proposed that Blackmoor's mixed human/elf colony in Glantri was established >as a mining outpost, after Thonia's mineral resources were exhausted. >Maybe those immense tunnel-networks of the Broken Lands and shadow-elf >territories REALLY started out as gargantuan mines excavated by Blackmoor >-- which explains how the shadow elves' ancestors knew where to run, to get >underground -- and the Beagle's reactor was transported to Brun, because >that's where late-era Blackmoor was getting its uranium and processing it >into fissionable material. > This is a cool idea. What do you have to say about this, Fabrizio? Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 20:35:13 -0400 From: dlegend@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Does any body know what year the Beagle landed on Mystara and what year did it explode? If you can, please give me the dates in blackmoor and modern mystara. Also around what date did Blackmoor have advanced technology. So far in the DA series I have seen nothing on Blackmoor technology only the technology from the Beagle. How long did it take them to advance? According to HW set the Blacklore elves had glass buildings and robots. I was thinking about playing a campaign in Blackmoor with advanced technology, but it seems that I will have to do allot of work on Blackmoor technology. As anybody run this type of campaign? dlegend@earthlink.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #667 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, October 6 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 668 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Alph Currency markings &tc. Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Alph Currency markings &tc. Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards [MYSTARA] - Re:[MYSTARA]Regarding Stefan : not serious [MYSTARA] - Re:[MYSTARA]Regarding Stefan : not serious Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Alph Currency markings &tc. Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[MYSTARA]Regarding Stefan : not serious Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Alph Currency markings &tc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 21:34:45 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards As an interesting side question: How many of the 1000 Wizards -- be they 36th level or not; mages or not; literally "1000" in number, or not -- would be of, say, Thothian descent? How many would be elves, assuming that we let elves advance sufficiantly in level to earn a seat? How many monster-types, from Limn, might become members... and which species of creature? Could extra-planar beings like diaboli, or artificial ones like the Kubbitts, become 36th level mages and join it? The Grand Council might be a lot more colorful/diverse than suspected, even if there aren't any non-mage members. Just a thought. :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 21:38:27 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Alph Currency markings &tc. > >> >> I do not see the point in seeing "Alphatia above all" / "ALPHATIA ILA >> KALLIM" as an intolerant motto. >> >Very creative, and fits well into the tendancy of Alphatiaphiles to >re-define everything Alphatia-related in the best of all possible lights >(now you see why I mentioned "Panglosian). > > Heck ... ever since Alphatia became a flying continent, the phrase might just as well be taken literally! :-D *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 00:13:57 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Alph Currency markings &tc. In a message dated 10/5/98 10:09:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: << >> I do not see the point in seeing "Alphatia above all" / "ALPHATIA ILA >> KALLIM" as an intolerant motto. >> >Very creative, and fits well into the tendancy of Alphatiaphiles to >re-define everything Alphatia-related in the best of all possible lights >(now you see why I mentioned "Panglosian). > > Heck ... ever since Alphatia became a flying continent, the phrase might just as well be taken literally! :-D >> lol... actually i could care less if the alphatian coinage motto was stamped "Alphatian or bust" or "The other guys suck eggs". such stampings are just nationalist slogans. i do not have any other mystaran national coinage references handy, but i assume similar stampings exist elsewhere. but looking at RW US currency you'll see stampings of "Liberty", "In God We Trust", and "E Pluribus Unum". if you're gonna blast alphatia for stamping a haughty slogan then blast others. heck look at glantri who "enhances" their coinage with magic. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 22:48:59 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor >There is no non-canon! To say else is heresy! :) > >"A witch! burn her! burn her!" No non-canon? Never, never go to my web page (just warning you lest thine delicate eyes be offended!) Here (see, I'm fire-resistant--you'll have to draw and quarter me:-) still, Jenn "The Witch of NC" 8-)~ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:01:20 +0200 (EET DST) From: Anias Pasi Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions Jennifer asked a while ago: > A quick couple of questions to those of you with PWAI or II: > 2.) When, and under what circumstances did Catherine d'Amberville give > up her position as Grand Master of the Great School (WotI p. 91) in > favour of Harald Haaskinz? Is this when she went to Thyatis? How did > Harald get the job? This has not been explained in detail, but here goes: - -Catherine was ambassador before WoTI (GAZ) - -After etiennes dissappearance, CdA 'took over Etiennes role' as the Grand Master of The School, While Henri dA took over the rool of head of the dA family.(WoTI) - -PWA I tells that Henry and Dame Isidore started to compete of Neuvelle Avegroine (Henri having stronger claim, but Isidore listed as the unconfirmed ruler). On 1010 Klarmont 25th Henri Becames Prince. - -in 1011 Isidore challenges Henri and becames Prince. - -in 1012 Harald of Haazkins becames prince and Grandmaster of the school. Grand Master of the school being one of the charges that only princes can hold, it is obvious that CdA cant hold it officially. Neither could she be qualified for the position (M13). It is however reasonable to think, that she took care of the position, in stead of her huspand for the year 1010 and until 1011 and the choosing of Harald in her stead. What this means: The princes couldnt decide on who would get the position, until they got Harald as a qualified but neutral and weak enough prince. Rather they let Etienne to be the GM and Catherine to do to work in his absence. This way, in princes counsil there were allways 10 votes that were not used, until Etienne were found or a new GM choosen. After she was not needed in the school anymore, Catherine went back to be the ambassador. Well actually she probably was the ambassador all the time, while acting as a GM too, and was probably happy to get rid of the burdersome second job. Well there. Hope this helps, and sorry it took this long. The mail got hidden on the bottom of the box, even though I was myself most interest of the subject. Pasi - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:27:27 +0200 (EET DST) From: Anias Pasi Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Marcus wrote: > >From: Anias Pasi > >There is no gold in karameikos, and it has little strategic importance > >as long as there are no roads. > No gold in Karameikos ? !!! Have you read in the expert box what kind of > trade the duke was used to do in Treshold ? I remember he used Treshold > to make his own gold pieces (Treshold was the midway beetween > Specularium and the mines)... To be verified ... Yes. He has a mint in Treshold. The gold cames from gnome mines. One box per week. But that's not the whole story: >From Gaz: Mines are numerous in the Wulfholde Hills (especially gnomish and dwarwen mines); Iron is produced here in great quantity, and small quantity of precious metals can be found here. It is known that there is gold to be found in the southern Altan Tepes, and many people try to establish mines there. Some meet with great success. And considering Highforge, the main Gnome society, and the place where from the one box of metal (gold and silver) comes to the Mint in Specularum: they do not pay taxes to the humans; they have their own economic system and only pay taxes when selling goods to humans. (sales tax is 5%). So. One box to be made into coins per week. Not too much. Also, You must note, that the metal comes only as sales tax, or is bought by karameikos. The gold in Altan tepes might some day prove out to be worth while. But not yet, and it isn't probably known about for wery long. Giving the value of gold, I would say that my original statement was true. I Think the most important thing that I game to realise, as I studied this, is the wery low amount of Karameikan money in circulation. It means, that wery few big treasurys the adventures are likely to found would be in Karameikan currency. They will have to trade it. Or buy gems or samething (sales tax). And anyway, this gives an easy way for the knowledge of the foundings to go to the tax-officers. No more tax-evasions :) Pasi - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:29:27 +0200 (EET DST) From: Anias Pasi Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan Aleksei wrote: > >You are saying that karameikos should have seen hendriks to what he is. > >But how so? think about the whole picture. You know how the thinks are, > >but forget it, and just tjink about what karameikos knows. > Well, when your cousin lives in a place called something like 'Fort Doom', you would be stupid not to have some suspicions :) As somebody pointed out allready, its just a flashy name. If it was something that would point out _too much_ hendriks would never have named it such. Pasi - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:59:16 +0200 (EET DST) From: Anias Pasi Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards Fabrizio wrote: > At 10.00 05/10/98 +0200, Anias Pasi wrote: > >Someone allready wrote about the problems with longevity potions. > Where's this from? I just looked the description of the longevity potion in > the RC and found nothing about reliability. I think its in the basic rules, and probably in the RC too, under potions. Its the same for all potions. > Elsewhere in the RC I found rules for aging, but they're optional. > Anyway, if longevity fails you can always have your trusted cleric cast > raise dead. If You are old, Youl just die again. Raise dead does not make You Young. And besides. The whole raise-dead issue is talked quite many times in every forum too. It is a Moral issue far far bigger than even the living for ever issue. > >Also If one looks into the known Alphatian persons, none of them is wery > >old. Even the ruling family, which surely has all the potions they need, > >dont have wery old members. > This could be a good point, but could also be meaningless because the > number of Alphatian NPC in the sourcebooks is negligible if compared to > 1000 mages. Ewerything is :) > >Furthermore, some of the mages would not use the potions. After all > >it is a ethic problem... > Ok, though I've rarely seen PCs having "ethic problems" :-) I have. And it is a shame If You havent. Though I havent really had quite many characters who would have aged quite so far to think about longevity. There are cases of unnatural aging, but in those cases its not about getting Young and living for ever, its about healing. There were one wary nice case thought... And many on the subject or rising dead, ket alone reincarnate, which is really evil. > 10 36th levelers per year doesn't seem (to me) out of place in > magic-oriented Alphatia, though probably 5 is more realistic. Maybe we > should consider also non-alphatian mages that move to Alphatia. There are not enough in the whole Mystara :) > >And consider this too... How many mages (in percentage) of all mages would > >be at the highest level? surely not 1/36? I would suggest that the > >ratio of 1st level mages would be greatest? say 100 1st levelers per one > >36th? > I would say 1000 1st levelers per one 36th. If You say so. thats 1 000 000 1st level mages > >and a straight line frome there? > Probably not, most will stop at level 2-3. Anyway let's go on. But thanks to Your bigger number You would get to at least my number... > >it would figure up to some > >2000 mages per one mage in 36th level and 2 000 000 mages all together. > >The population given to alphatia in DoE is something around 6 000 000... > >Would you make 1/3 of a nation nobles? > Why not if nobility is something that depends on your skills and not on > your blood? Something like making all RW graduated people nobles. Wether magical ability comes from blood or from skill, I dont care to discuss anymore. However, i'll continue my calculations from here. Say there are 2 000 000 mages Then there are 120 000 elves who cant get to level 36 :( and 60000 others than humans How many clerics and paladins? Lets just throw something up: 100000 suppose mediocre lifespan would be 90 (with so many mages and others) And suppose magical abilities come up at about age 14. Counting with homogenic distribution (which its not, there are a lot more children than adults) there would be 940 000 children. Its usually so, that in any civilization there are more peasants than gentry than nobles. However, for this calculation, lets say there is one member of gentry for one noble in alphatia (those with money, but no magic.) So thats 2100 000 gentry. What is left out of 6000000 is 680 000. Who are workers, peasants, slaves etc. If You believe it possible, ok. > The 1000 36th level mages are first mentioned in CM1, not DotE. yes I know this. And I knew someone would point it out. However, The makers of Doe could have just said 1000 mages, not 1000 36th level mages. Just like they do in WoTI... Pasi - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 00:04:19 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards How many >monster-types, from Limn, might become members... and which species of >creature? Could extra-planar beings like diaboli, or artificial ones like >the Kubbitts, become 36th level mages and join it? I have an ogre mage (from the AD&D Oriental/Kara-Tur setting), and he does create a very unusual atmosphere. At 36-th level, one can also assume that the mages are in rather unusual states: undead, disembodied (ghost jar or other), exalted fiends/titans, or various shapechanged manifestations. As for diaboli, I don't know they would fit in; Alphatian politics is based on magical duels, which diaboli don't really fit it with. As for travellers from the Dimension of Myth, I think that there are probably quite a few. "In the beginning, there was darkness, but before there was darkness, there was Frog" - St. Stephen Nicholas Hudson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:06:11 +0200 (EET DST) From: Anias Pasi Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards Fabrizio wrote: > Ok, but longevity potions are just one of the many ways to lenghtening > someone's life, raise-dead spells and comebacks from Limbo are 2 other > options. > Not to mention other strange methods, such as becoming an undead (a la > Morphail), time-traveling (a la Haldemar).... In WoTI the Alphatians strongly oppose necromantic magics. It would not be likely that they would have undeads in their counsil. > Maybe they were selected, but never attended a single meeting. > Moreover it's difficult to say when a 36-th level mage is dead, maybe he's > away (time-traveling, plane-walking...). Ahaa! Now I got it. Maybe it is possible there is 1000 36th level mages in the parlament. Nowone has just seen 990 of them for some decades :) No. I think there exist a mention of the counsil to have been less than full at a time. So it rules this out. But its a nice idea. I'll think I just might take it into use in this my new campaign that isnt going just like the official timeline. > What about Immortals in mortal forms attending the council? Maybe Rad too > did attend council meetings during WotI :-) :) An other nice idea! pasi - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 28 A 18 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:56:32 +0200 (METDST) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > > >Furthermore, some of the mages would not use the potions. After all > >it is a ethic problem... > > Ok, though I've rarely seen PCs having "ethic problems" :-) > Some people would get "tired" of their lives, after 2 or 3 centuries. A good ethic problem would be this one: if you artificially delay your death, you delay your "reunion with gods/immortals/whatever else you believe in", and this could even be an alignment problem (useful to limit PCs' use of potions of longevity). Last, but probably most effective, is that the long-lived mage's heirs would become tired of him early, with the predictable effects (asssassinations, bribing your trusted cleric to have raise dead fail...) > > 10 36th levelers per year doesn't seem (to me) out of place in > magic-oriented Alphatia, though probably 5 is more realistic. Maybe we > should consider also non-alphatian mages that move to Alphatia. > 36-level non-alphatian mages (or even 20+ level) are not too eager to join Alphatia, IMO. In fact, in their countries they should be the most powerful spellcasters, while in Alphatia they will became one of the innumerable would-be councilors. For example, look at the royal wizard of Ericall in CM1 or at Barimoor: alphatian mages leave alphatia because of the crowd :) Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 02:10:11 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re:[MYSTARA]Regarding Stefan : not serious >From: "Aleksei Andrievski" >Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 18:54:52 +0300 >Well, when your cousin lives in a place called something like 'Fort >Doom', you would be stupid not to have some suspicions :) He might like some computer games ... It may affraid monsters so that they'll never enter the dominion [unless hired !] ... In French it has been traducted as Black Castle (Noircastel for those who enjoy knowing French) : perhaps Karameikos has French version ;o) Sorry but i can find many bad reason ... but none good exept the desire not to confront his own family ... Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT à mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 02:26:26 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re:[MYSTARA]Regarding Stefan : not serious >From: "Aleksei Andrievski" >Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 18:54:52 +0300 >Well, when your cousin lives in a place called something like 'Fort >Doom', you would be stupid not to have some suspicions :) He might like some computer games ... It may affraid monsters so that they'll never enter the dominion [unless hired !] ... In French it has been traducted as Black Castle (Noircastel for those who enjoy knowing French) : perhaps Karameikos has French version ;o) Sorry but i can find many bad reason ... but none good exept the desire not to confront his own family ... Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT à mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 06:50:14 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Alph Currency markings &tc. Alex you made a great point...of course, the un-haughty slogans of American currency (In GOD we trust...not ourselves, but God, right?) didn't really back you up very well! Was it a saying or a slogan for Darokin, "He who has the gold makes the rules"? Anyone have a gazetteer handy? Alex295@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/5/98 10:09:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: > > << >> I do not see the point in seeing "Alphatia above all" / "ALPHATIA ILA > >> KALLIM" as an intolerant motto. > >> > >Very creative, and fits well into the tendancy of Alphatiaphiles to > >re-define everything Alphatia-related in the best of all possible lights > >(now you see why I mentioned "Panglosian). > > > > > > Heck ... ever since Alphatia became a flying continent, the phrase might > just as well be taken literally! :-D >> > > lol... actually i could care less if the alphatian coinage motto was stamped > "Alphatian or bust" or "The other guys suck eggs". such stampings are just > nationalist slogans. i do not have any other mystaran national coinage > references handy, but i assume similar stampings exist elsewhere. > > but looking at RW US currency you'll see stampings of > "Liberty", "In God We Trust", and "E Pluribus Unum". > > if you're gonna blast alphatia for stamping a haughty slogan then blast > others. heck look at glantri who "enhances" their coinage with magic. > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:10:29 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Stefan > > As somebody pointed out allready, its just a flashy name. If it was > something that would point out _too much_ hendriks would never have named > it such. > I'm sure that when PCs first heard the name "Fort Doom" they assumed a Paladin ruled that fief. *rolls eyes* *across the table* *they clatter onto the floor, I pick them up and put them back in their sockets* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:32:13 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor On Mon, 5 Oct 1998 dlegend@earthlink.net wrote: > Also around what date did Blackmoor have advanced technology. So far in the > DA series I have seen nothing on Blackmoor technology only the technology > from the Beagle. > How long did it take them to advance? According to HW set the Blacklore > elves had glass buildings and robots. Blackmoors technology IMHO did not evolve to a VERY advanced state until after the DA series was over, and after the beagle blew up. Unfortunately, dates i don't have on hand right now. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 09:53:55 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions >After she was not needed in the school anymore, Catherine went >back to be the ambassador. Well actually she probably was the >ambassador all the time, while acting as a GM too, and was probably >happy to get rid of the burdersome second job. > >Well there. Hope this helps, and sorry it took this long. No problem--and it does help; thanks! I like your explanation. I suppose that when they wrote that about Catherine as GM at the end of WotI that someone had presumed that she would become prince. Jenn valerya@hotmail.com Valerya@webtv.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ "The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so much as to make settled things strange." (GK Chesterton) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:53:52 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor > Here (see, I'm fire-resistant--you'll have to draw and quarter me:-) > still, > > Jenn "The Witch of NC" Fire-resistant? Then you're probably susceptible to cold. :-) Jamuga Khan "A witch! Freeze her! Freeze her!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:03:15 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[MYSTARA]Regarding Stefan : not serious > In French it has been traducted as Black Castle (Noircastel for those > who enjoy knowing French) : perhaps Karameikos has French version ;o) Wow! In German too! The first translation (Expert Set) spoke about "Das Schwarze Schloss". In RC it had changed to "Fort Unheil". Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:25:16 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Alph Currency markings &tc. > I do not see the point in seeing "Alphatia above all" / "ALPHATIA ILA > KALLIM" as an intolerant motto. It may be if it is read as an imperialistic > slogan, but I think that, according to Alphatian inner politics, it was > more of a political desideratum: "the interests of our nation, Alphatia, > must be above any petty individualistic or regional goals". It fits nice > with a more-or-less federal Empire, composed of a number of heterogeneous > kingdoms. The motto on a common and daily tool as currency is should > remember citizens of that ideal: above Aquas, Vertiloch, Ambur, Bellisaria, > Esterhold... the interest of Alphatia rules supreme (although it rarely > did). It is akin to US patriotism (from Hawaii to New England there are > many differences and peculiarities, but I have found no American citizen > without -at least- a spark of patriotism) and it is logical to find it in > Germany´s anthem (it is a Federal Republic, after all). So, IMO, even in > the NACE the motto is good: "regional identity is OK, but let us keep in > mind that our nation has important common goals". As you've mentioned Germany anyway, I will use the opportunity to state that the German federalism originates in the days before we got a democracy or even a republic. Germany were divided into many, many little states, which were later reunited through a campaign of Prussia which later led into the foundation of the second empire in 1871. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #668 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, October 7 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 669 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Alph Currency markings &tc. Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Status??? Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Status??? Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.4 (repost) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:59:23 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards > Alphatian politics is based on magical duels, which diaboli don't really > fit it with. As for travellers from the Dimension of Myth, I think that > there are probably quite a few. I have to protest: Alphatia has a dueling culture, but this is a private matter (and a public event, of course), but it is too civilized to rely on duels as basic for politics. Hey we're talking about the Alphatian Empire, not the Klingon Empire... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 10:17:38 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Alph Currency markings &tc. >Was it a saying or a slogan for Darokin, "He who has the gold makes the rules"? >Anyone have a gazetteer handy? Saying (IIRC). Of course, Darokin is the king of haughty sayings ("The greatest guard against revolution is a well-fed populace"). Jenn valerya@hotmail.com Valerya@webtv.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ "The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so much as to make settled things strange." (GK Chesterton) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 14:24:31 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards At 09.59 06/10/98 +0200, Anias Pasi wrote: >> Ok, though I've rarely seen PCs having "ethic problems" :-) >I have. And it is a shame If You havent. I know, but don't get the impression that all my players are greedy power-players. > Though I havent really >had quite many characters who would have aged quite so far to think >about longevity. Me too. > There are cases of unnatural aging, but in those cases >its not about getting Young and living for ever, its about healing. There >were one wary nice case thought... And many on the subject or rising dead, >ket alone reincarnate, which is really evil. IMO in a world where healing and raising spells are easily available death loses its sacrality and becomes more of a nuisance. Of course there're notable exception like Sind, where raising dead is "bad". Anyway this is a completely different topic. >Wether magical ability comes from blood or from skill, I dont care to >discuss anymore. Are you referring to the thread about magical abilities? Sorry, but I didn't read it :-( >Then there are 120 000 elves who cant get to level 36 :( Another debatable issue. According to the GAZ5 (and GAZ13) elves can get up to 20th level, but nothing prevents them from getting more XP, and thus "levels", even if they cannot cast more spells than those listed at 20th level. Same goes for Pegataurs, Sphinxes and other non-human races able to cast spells. IMO the council is not made just out of humans, and we should consider top-level non-human spellcasters as 36th level mages. Anyway this is not-canon. >Its usually so, that in any civilization there are more peasants than >gentry than nobles. However, for this calculation, lets say there is >one member of gentry for one noble in alphatia (those with money, but no >magic.) So thats 2100 000 gentry. > >What is left out of 6000000 is 680 000. Who are workers, peasants, >slaves etc. If You believe it possible, ok. But IMO Alphatian nobles are not like RW medieval nobles. Alphatian Aristocrat Class (people who can use spells regardless of personal wealth) includes also many low level mages who stopped their studies and turned to more menial works. Probaly they won't turn into farmers, but I can see them as cooks, laundrymen (remember those low-level spells in DotE?), tourist guides, booksellers, gemcutters... ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 22:22:13 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards At 21.34 05/10/98 -0400, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: >The Grand Council might be a lot more colorful/diverse than suspected, even >if there aren't any non-mage members. Just a thought. :-) And an interesting one too. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 14:04:45 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor >> Jenn "The Witch of NC" >Fire-resistant? Then you're probably susceptible to cold. :-) >"A witch! Freeze her! Freeze her!" Aaargh!! He's found my one true weakness--being a popsicle!! :-) Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:25:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor > Does any body know what year the Beagle landed on Mystara and what year did > it explode? If you can, please give me the dates in blackmoor and modern > mystara. Okay, let's see... Pg 13 of DA2 says St Stephen arrived among the Froggies 5 years before DA2 begins DA3 tells us that Stephen left the Beagle after a few months on Mystara with his cohorts DA2 is 2 months after DA1 which is either 3000 (acc to DA1) or 4000 (acc to HW DM's book) BC So.....5 years+ (a few-2) months before 4000 or 3000 BC. As for explosion, I haven't a clue! > Also around what date did Blackmoor have advanced technology. So far in the > DA series I have seen nothing on Blackmoor technology only the technology > from the Beagle. One could assume that the process of learning from the Beagle, esp. with the Blackmoor academic focus (early universities) and established diplomatic relations (DA3 if all goes right for the PCs), was gradual and began around the time of DA3, progressing slowly from there. > How long did it take them to advance? According to HW set the Blacklore > elves had glass buildings and robots. The Blacklore tech was set at the end of the Blackmoor era. The Blackmoor era ran 1000 years, basically begining from the time of contact with the Beagle IMO. > I was thinking about playing a campaign in Blackmoor with advanced > technology, but it seems that I will have to do allot of work on Blackmoor > technology. As anybody run this type of campaign? I haven't but I agree it'd be alot of work. Then again you get a free reign creativity-wise and could develop a culture however you imagine it as being that mixes tech+magic. I wouldn't want to sign a bill that would let rich folks send their kids all to one school and the poor folks to another school - former Alabama governor Jim Folsom, on school vouchers *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 23:42:24 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards In a message dated 10/4/98 6:46:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ohadshm@inter.net.il writes: << Alex295 said: >>i still wonder why the subject of the Alphatian Grand Council draws so much debate. it's not like it actually comes into play in the average campaign. i mean it's a game tool to display the magical might of alphatia. i just accept the canon references and let it go at that.<< > I can agree with you about the council not being part of a normal campaign. to tell the truth I never even campaigned in alphatia (does Aquas count?) so my players wouldnt care if alphatian council members are all 36 lvled mages and clerics or 9-36 lev mages as I use (or do not use) . excuse me for being petty but I like developing all of mystara, even the parts the players wont be in and the levels of play they wont reach. for ex-I do not want an immortal level campaign but I find the "elevated servents" wonderful-(Hivaard :-) my point being I want a "balanced" alphatia not for my players, but to be able to sleep better at night. (god I need a life!!) by the way someone, cant remember who sugested a while back that alphatia may have a powerful enemy to its east. I would realy want to see that. (MOrient crew?) its seems that some power stops alphatia from world domination (befroe wrath) I would really want to know and befriend :) such a power.... >> well...i'll admit to being a detail freak myself. however, i tend to veer away from such things as detailling the Alphatian Grand Council. knowing my own tendencies i'd end up detailing all 1000 36th level mages. note political ties and rivals. note factions. i am bad about over doing description work. i'd rather keep it vague and introduce a council member or two if the campaign calls for it. i've long contended that alphatia held off from world domination due to the lack of the need of it. imo the mages see the empire as being big enough. the flow of tribute and taxes are adequate. if there is a visible need to expand then the empire would. until then they are content with their sphere of influence and their toe holds on Brun. heck the non continental kingdoms are not densely populated... so gaining new living space is not a priority. as is the borders are easily defendable and allow a buffer zone against any invasion on the alphatian mainland and bellissaria. and let us say that alphatia went on the march to expand its borders. then comes the problem of finding rulers for these new territories. imo it is hard enough to find spellcasting rulers for the continental kingdoms. and given history the mages sent to govern have hurt alphatia. mostly the territories revolt. as for balance...the 1000 36th level mages of the Grand Council may not seem balanced, but they are... at least in alphatia. for every 36th level mage there are numerous mages of lesser levels. in a land of mages, it's not a big deal. as a 36th level mage you are sitting on the top rung of the elite class of alphatia. however, there are 1000+ other mages sharing that top rung with you. not to forget the more numerous 20-35th level mages that climbing up there too. imo there are aspects of alphatia that best be left alone to maintain a sense of mystery. even the alphatians themselves should not understand everything about their "chaotic" society. when i actively gamed most of my pcs came from alphatia. however only a few were mages. i found alphatian society a perfect motivator for pcs to go abroad and fullfill their destiny. then add the alphatian quirk of loyalty to the Empire and you have a paradox. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 23:42:42 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Status??? Awhile back someone (dlegend i think) asked about the planned reprinting of an oop adventure module based on votes taken in an issue of Dragon Mag. So has TSR decided on which module won? Also, sometime back it was rumored that Terari was to make an appearance in Ed Greenwood's Wizard Three. Any update on that? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 23:55:44 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions In a message dated 1998-10-06 13:21:01 Eastern Daylight Time, valerya@hotmail.com writes: > No problem--and it does help; thanks! I like your > explanation. I suppose that when they wrote that about > Catherine as GM at the end of WotI that someone had > presumed that she would become prince. Actually she should have been a Princess -- as wife (widow?) of Prince Etienne and a mage of level 9+ in her own right, she should have been Etienne's successor. My guess is that she abdicated and remained in Thyatis as ambassador out of fear for her life -- since Henri was no longer her lover, he would probably bump her off to get a chance at the throne -- and Catherine knew it. By this interpretation Catherine would never have been Grand Master of the School -- Harald (who became a Prince before the war, as near as I can tell) would have been elected to the post in late AC 1009. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 23:21:08 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Status??? At 11:42 PM 10/6/98 EDT, Alex295@aol.com wrote: > >Also, sometime back it was rumored that Terari was to make an appearance in Ed >Greenwood's Wizard Three. Any update on that? Terari is supposed to be in the one after next Wizard's Three. I think both have been pushed back so I wouldn't look for it till some time next year. At least that's what the grapevine is saying. I didn't make it to Dave Gross's recent seminar on TSR Live so I wasn't able to find out specifics. This has been a Galwylin® Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 00:38:46 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards There is one reason why the composition of the Alphation Council might be important -- if you have in your campaign a couple of Alphatian PCs who are a mage of level 25 and a cleric of level 36, it would be useful in developing adventures to know whether there is any chance that either of them could join the council. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 00:28:48 -0400 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Hi folks, I can't resist wading into this (it's one of my pet peeves regarding authors who simply disregarded previously published facts, creating inconsistencies in a previously coherent world) >> I have always been under the impression that Blackmoor was located just north of Glantri. >> >> am I wrong? >> >Very much so. The canon place for Blackmoor was set in thonia in the HW >boxed set. > >The "Glantri" setting was brough about because of the position of the NoS, >and by an erroneous placement of the traveller's Inn. > >But AFAIK, Thonia is the official place. The original setting for Blackmoor was the Broken Lands. This is according to the first published material to say so: DA 1 - Adventures in Blackmoor. This is why the Inn Between the Worlds is in the middle of the Broken Lands (it was in the middle of Blackmoor, the Gate in the IBtWs transports people through time but not through space). This is also why the Broken Lands are "broken" to begin with (Blackmoor blew itself up, leaving the devasted terrain of the modern Broken Lands and obscuring most traces of itself in the process). Furthermore, this is why the NoS is under Glantri City (it is where the Beagle was stranded, and where the final malfunction of the engines caused them to heat up and sink into the ground - leaving no access tunnel). Astute paleogeographers will note that the distance between the IBtWs and the Beagle in the Blackmoor era is about the same as the distance between the IBtWs and Glantri City in the modern era. (Triangulating based on the differences between the north/south axises (axes?) in ancient and modern times allows for calculation of the degree of planetary tilt that resulted from the explosion and the Great Rain of Fire). Finally, the reason that a common tongue of sorts exists at all on Brun, and the reason PCs are able to communicate with ancient Blackmoorians (who spoke Thonian) is that modern Thyatis-based "common" is derived from ancient Thonian. GAZ 3 - The Principalities of Glantri was later published and is consistent with this. The Hollow World Boxed set was published later still. In it, Aaron Allston places the Empire of Thonia way the heck out on Skothar. (Why this was done, given all of the previously published facts mentioned above, is completely unclear to me). Some have taken this to represent canon placement of Blackmoor and Thonia on Skothar. I consider this an error, regardless of what was published. As is the case with other examples from Allston's previous work for Mystara, the newly published material almost directly contradicted what was published previously. A way I developed to deal with this (being obsessive and neurotic about details almost to a fault) was to create an explanation that would allow for the seeming contradiction to actually be true. In this case, I reasoned that the Empire of Thonia (which was indeed quite vast) actually extended as far as a corner of modern day Skothar. The collapse of the Thonian Empire that paralleled the rise of the Blackmoor era led to the preservation of only the farthest-flung outpost of the previously mighty Empire of Thonia as a distinctly Thonian region, (and then only as a province of Blackmoor). This even explains the north/south inconsistency in the HW boxed set - we're not talking about the original Empires after all. Subsequent generations throughout the centuries would understandably confuse the placement of the original Empires, making the location of the NoS even more obscure to the modern Mystaran mage. Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. ;) Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:30:55 +0200 (EET DST) From: Anias Pasi Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions > Actually she should have been a Princess -- as wife (widow?) of > Prince Etienne and a mage of level 9+ in her own right, she > should have been Etienne's successor. Actually no. It has not been told, as to how the succesion goes in Glantri, or if there even is an universal habit in a country that has this many factions. We only know, that the prince/princess is eventually verified by the counsil. I wouldnt even say, that catherines claim was wery good. She had been away from New Avegroine for too long. > By this interpretation Catherine would never have been Grand > Master of the School -- Harald (who became a Prince before the > war, as near as I can tell) would have been elected to the post in > late AC 1009. She never was. She just took care of the post in her huspands absense. No one knew where Etienne was, so there would have been no valid reason to change the GM in 1009. They had to wait for a reasonable period, to be sure that Etienne wasnt coming back. It took until 1010 to make Henri the prince and it is reasonable to think that to be a valid date to take the subject of GM on the Table, as Etienne wasn't a prince anymore, even if he was alive. And it would have taken until the end of 1010 or start of 1011 to make the decision. And anyway, Catherines taking over the duties f the GM is canon, even if from the WoTI... (Not that I care too much about which is canon :) Pasi - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 8-10 G 62 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 06:45:26 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor You made some excellent points. And I would add to it with the following... You asked why Thonia was placed where it was...Originally Thonia was exactly where it is. On that peninsula on Skothar. It was placed there during Frank Mentzer's reign in the Master's set. Later, the DA series describe how the original seat of Thonia was elsewhere, and it was the destruction which drove the pitiful survivors to that far northern area. So again, not a disagreement, just a little extra detail. DJ Sahlas wrote: > Hi folks, > > I can't resist wading into this (it's one of my pet peeves regarding > authors who simply disregarded previously published facts, creating > inconsistencies in a previously coherent world) > > >> I have always been under the impression that Blackmoor was located just > north of Glantri. > >> > >> am I wrong? > >> > >Very much so. The canon place for Blackmoor was set in thonia in the HW > >boxed set. > > > >The "Glantri" setting was brough about because of the position of the NoS, > >and by an erroneous placement of the traveller's Inn. > > > >But AFAIK, Thonia is the official place. > > The original setting for Blackmoor was the Broken Lands. This is > according to the first published material to say so: DA 1 - Adventures in > Blackmoor. This is why the Inn Between the Worlds is in the middle of the > Broken Lands (it was in the middle of Blackmoor, the Gate in the IBtWs > transports people through time but not through space). This is also why the > Broken Lands are "broken" to begin with (Blackmoor blew itself up, leaving > the devasted terrain of the modern Broken Lands and obscuring most traces of > itself in the process). Furthermore, this is why the NoS is under Glantri > City (it is where the Beagle was stranded, and where the final malfunction > of the engines caused them to heat up and sink into the ground - leaving no > access tunnel). Astute paleogeographers will note that the distance between > the IBtWs and the Beagle in the Blackmoor era is about the same as the > distance between the IBtWs and Glantri City in the modern era. > (Triangulating based on the differences between the north/south axises > (axes?) in ancient and modern times allows for calculation of the degree of > planetary tilt that resulted from the explosion and the Great Rain of Fire). > Finally, the reason that a common tongue of sorts exists at all on Brun, and > the reason PCs are able to communicate with ancient Blackmoorians (who spoke > Thonian) is that modern Thyatis-based "common" is derived from ancient > Thonian. > > GAZ 3 - The Principalities of Glantri was later published and is > consistent with this. > > The Hollow World Boxed set was published later still. In it, Aaron > Allston places the Empire of Thonia way the heck out on Skothar. (Why this > was done, given all of the previously published facts mentioned above, is > completely unclear to me). Some have taken this to represent canon > placement of Blackmoor and Thonia on Skothar. I consider this an error, > regardless of what was published. As is the case with other examples from > Allston's previous work for Mystara, the newly published material almost > directly contradicted what was published previously. A way I developed to > deal with this (being obsessive and neurotic about details almost to a > fault) was to create an explanation that would allow for the seeming > contradiction to actually be true. In this case, I reasoned that the Empire > of Thonia (which was indeed quite vast) actually extended as far as a corner > of modern day Skothar. The collapse of the Thonian Empire that paralleled > the rise of the Blackmoor era led to the preservation of only the > farthest-flung outpost of the previously mighty Empire of Thonia as a > distinctly Thonian region, (and then only as a province of Blackmoor). This > even explains the north/south inconsistency in the HW boxed set - we're not > talking about the original Empires after all. Subsequent generations > throughout the centuries would understandably confuse the placement of the > original Empires, making the location of the NoS even more obscure to the > modern Mystaran mage. > > Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. ;) > > Jim Sahlas > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:13:15 +0200 (METDST) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Anias Pasi wrote: > > Actually she should have been a Princess -- as wife (widow?) of > > Prince Etienne and a mage of level 9+ in her own right, she > > should have been Etienne's successor. > > Actually no. It has not been told, as to how the succesion goes in > Glantri, or if there even is an universal habit in a country > that has this many factions. We only know, that the prince/princess > is eventually verified by the counsil. > I wouldnt even say, that catherines claim was wery good. She had been away > from New Avegroine for too long. > Well, both elven princesses are widows of former princes. The law says that a noble mage's heir is his/her eldest descentant (mage), and that when two nobles marry they share their power. So, the elven princesses should have been, at least formally, sharing their husbands' nobility rank. Otherwise, Qenildor and Miguelito would have inherited the title. Why didn't the same thing happen to Catherine? The only answer I can devise is that cooptation of the Prince's wife to nobility is not automatic, even when she is a name level wizard, and that Etienne expressely named Isidore as heiress. However, this poses another problem: is Diane de Moriamis a Princess with the same powers of her husband? Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 17:33:02 CEST From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.4 (repost) All this talk about Blackmoor's location a few days ago... Means it's time to repost the Mystara FAQ. Not to mention that in October many students around the world flock to the Internet, and some even discover our little list, so... - --------------------------------------------------------------------- Mystara FAQ version 5.4 by Hervé Musseau Q: What is Mystara? A: Mystara is an imaginary world created by TSR as a campaign world for roleplaying games using the rules of Dungeons and Dragons. Q: What is a roleplaying game? A: Roleplaying games are games in which people play the role of imaginary fantastic characters like warriors or wizards and try to complete an adventure under the guidance of a game master. Q: I never heard of Mystara, but I know a setting called the Known World which looks pretty the same. What's the difference? A: Mystara got a name as a world only recently; before that, it was often referred to as the Known World, although Mystara is more than just the Known World. Q: So, what's Mystara? The Known World and what else? A: Mystara is basically composed of 2 main parts, the Outer World and the Hollow World, plus 2 moons, and some other exotic settings. Q: A Hollow World? A: Yes. Mystara, unlike our earth, is hollow, an empty sphere. It has an internal sun that lights the interior world, making it inhabitable. It holds old civilizations that are now extinct on the Outer World, placed there by the Immortals with strong magic preventing them from evolving much or dying away. The only entrances to the Hollow World are through underground passages between the two worlds, and through the holes that stand in place of the north and south poles. Q: And the Outer World? A: The Outer World is mostly like our Earth. It comprises: * the Known World (now called Old World), where the most civilized countries are located, * Alphatia (only before AC 1009), * the Savage Coast and Hule, * the southern continent, called Davania, * the eastern continent, called Skothar. Q: Why is Alphatia part of Mystara only up to AC 1009? A: Because Alphatia, which is a large continent east of the Known World, sank into the ocean in AC 1009, at the end of the major event called Wrath of the Immortals. It is now a floating continent located in the Hollow World. Q: What exactly is Wrath of the Immortals? A: Wrath of the Immortals (or WotI) is a great campaign that TSR published to update the Known World. It deals with the Great War that involves the major countries of Mystara and that was caused by the Immortals to obtain control of the Nucleus of the Spheres, a powerful artifact located under Glantri. At the end of the war, Alphatia sinks, Glantri and Thyatis have suffered dramatically from the conflict and three new powers enter the political scene of Mystara: the Heldannic Territories, the Hagiarchy of Hule and the "revamped" Kingdom of Karameikos. Q: On the continental map published in the Master DM's book, there are some empires I've never read anything about in other products and on the list, like the Empire of Dorphin IV or the Empire of the Great Khan. Do they exist? Where can I find information about these? A: The map in the Master set is wrong, wrong, wrong! In the series of articles written by Bruce Heard in Dragon Magazine, the first in the series (Dragon #153) explains this all. The map was the was released by a very imaginative Thyatian, and wrongly accepted for the truth. There is no Empire of Dorphin IV, no Empire of the Great Khan, etc. Also, as you probably guessed, the size of the Thyatian Empire was largely exagerated on this map... Q: I've already heard from the Known World, and from the Hollow World too, but never as Mystara. What does all this mean? A: This is because Mystara is a very old world, one of the oldest created by TSR, and, as TSR grew, so did Mystara. All of these product lines are revelant to Mystara: * Mystara, of course, * the Known World and most stuff that were made for D&D (as opposed to AD&D) like these old good modules B and X, or the Gazetteers, * the Hollow World, * Red Steel/the Savage Coast, * Blackmoor. Also, some products bearing the label First Quest are related to Mystara. Q: Blackmoor? I know a Blackmoor, but it's part of Greyhawk, isn't it? A: Blackmoor was, like Greyhawk, the campaign world of one of TSR's founder. It was later placed in both Greyhawk and the Known World (as a past kingdom in the later), effectively making two Blackmoors exist. It seems there is no further relation between the two Blackmoors, however, although some people made the assumption. Q: Where is it located? A: Blackmoor was a techno-magical kingdom that blew itself up a few millenia ago. The event shifted the planet's axis and Blackmoor is now the north pole. Sources are contradictory as to where Blackmoor stands; some place it on Brun, some on Skothar. Arguments in favor of Brun are the position of the Inn Between the Worlds and the Nucleus of the Sphere, and the fact that the Known World stands there; this is the solution proposed in some Gazetteers. Arguments in favor of Skothar are its sort of canonical status, and the feeling that all civilizations should not systamatically come from the Known World; this is the solution proposed in the Hollow World box. Note that, if you consider the Hollow World solution to be the truth in your campaign, the map in the box does have a typo : the names of Blackmoor and Thonia have been reversed (Blackmoor was north of the Empire of Thonia according to all other sources). Bruce Heard's opinion on this matter : << Blackmoor -- the travelling legend. If there were archaeologist on Mystara, they would have a devil of time figuring where the darn place was really located. Officially, it's supposed to be up there by the Thonian Marches. Unfortunately, conflicting info has crept into several products, getting in the way of the Thonian theory. The best thing is to assume evidence of Blackmoor's presence elsewhere is the result of later colonizations and outposts. Other communities were also magically displaced (such as a certain ancient tavern in the Broken Lands of the Known World). Definitely a messy development of the World of Mystara! :) >> So officially the answer is Skothar. Q: Ok, and now what's Red Steel? A: Red Steel is a setting that is part of Mystara (west of the Known World), although it was released as a stand-alone setting. Q: I have a player of the Church of Karameikos, and I whant to give him an Immortal, I suppose that it's a church with many Immortals (like the Greek / Latin church) but in Gaz 1 I dind't find any list of Inmortals... A: These are the immortals of the Church of Karameikos, as told by Bruce Heard in an old Dragon Magazine: Asterius (Eternal of Thought), Leader Kagyar (Eternal of Matter) Ilsundal (Hierarch of Thought) Valerias (Hierarch of Matter) Vanya (Empyreal of Time). Also, although Chardastes is a native Traladaran Immortal, he is venerated through the auspices of the Church of Karameikos, not the Church of Traladara. This is extrapolated from info in B1-9 In Search of Adventure. The Immortals of the Church of Traladara are: Halav Petra Zirchev. Q: You spoke of Immortals, what are they? Are they Gods? A: Mystara has a different pantheon when compared to other D&D settings. Most notably, it has no gods, but beings called Immortals. Immortals are mortals who, through their deeds, have reached a higher status granting them more power than mere mortals. Basically, however, Immortals are not very different from Gods of other settings. Q: Is Jaggar von Drachenfelds the Star Dragon? A: No. According to Bruce Heard's article in Dragon #170 http://www.tsrinc.com/periodicals/dragon/backissues/170jun91/170FromHatchlingTo.txt he became the Star Dragon for a brief period but relinquished the title for absolution. Q: Also you mentionned something about D&D not being AD&D. What does that mean? A: Mystara was the world designed to be used with the rules of D&D (often called OD&D to better distinct it from AD&D and from the generic term D&D which could mean both; OD&D stands for Old D&D or Original D&D - note that some few people call it BD&D for Basic D&D to distinguish it from even older rules). It appeared in the old boxed rules: the Expert box, the Companion box and the Master box. Most of the earlier modules designed for D&D were set in this world. Recently, however, Mystara has been converted to AD&D (along with Red Steel), but many people who play in Mystara do it with the old rules (or their reedition, Rules Cyclopedia). Q: When I read stuff about Mystara I keep seeing acronyms I cannot understand like WotI or PWA. What do they mean? A: There is a list of Mystara relevant acronyms at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Q: I heard that the Mystara line was cancelled. Is this true? A: It is unfortunately true. And Red Steel is cancelled too. Some novels pertaining to Mystara may be released as part of the First Quest line, and modules may be part of the Odyssey line. AFAIK, there is no such products in preparation however, though Wizards of the Coast (which bought TSR) has expressed its willingness to publish material for dead worlds, but never namely mentioned Mystara. Keep faith. Joshuan's Almanach was the last product of Mystara (to be precise the novel "The Black Vessel" has been released after, and to be even more precise it deals with the Savage Coast) and the Savages Baronies the last of Red Steel (except for online exclusives). Q: But I saw in TSR's 97 preview that there would be Red Steel modules released as online exclusive. What does this mean? A: TSR has released these modules for free on its site of MPGN at ftp://ftp.mpgn.com and http://www.tsrinc.com. Q: So, if TSR has dropped the line, how can I get new material for Mystara? A: There are many people on the web who love Mystara and have taken upon themselves to keep Mystara alive (and well alive). There is a mailing list dedicated to Mystara where people discuss together about it, exchanging ideas, points of view, and more. To subscribe, send e-mail to majordomo@mpgn.com. In the body, have the single line: subscribe Mystara-L . It has 224 people, as of end April 98. Not quite a billion served, but we're getting there. As a comparison, there are 395 people on the Realms list, TSR's flagship world (source : Leroy Van Camp, list admin). There are also the TSR message boards at http://tsronline.wizards.com:80/mb/system/addnewuser.shtml There are also many pages around the net dedicated to Mystara, sometimes with lots of interesting materials. Some of these pages are organized into a Webring, check http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html for info about the Mystara webring. Now more than ever you should express your views on how Mystara should be brought back at http://CWSpot.com/Mystara/SaveMystara or join the SaveMystara Writer's Group whose goal is to get as many adventures and articles to the periodicals as we can. Q: Where can I find the old messages of the Mystara mailing list? A: The digests are collected at ftp://ftp.mpgn.com/Gaming/ADND/Worlds/Mystara/MailingListArchive/ and the oldest ones (prior to 1998) can be found at ftp://ftp.io.com/pub/mailing-lists/mystara-digest/ However for your convenience the most interesting aricles the list has come up with are collected and sorted on Shawn's page at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/ Q: Where can I find the old messages of the Mystara message board? A: There is no archiving of the board. However for your convenience the most interesting aricles the board has come up with are collected and sorted on Shawn's page at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/ Q: Where can I find a complete list of the material published for Mystara? A: The most complete lists to my knowledge is at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2304/prodlist.html It includes rulebooks and modules published by TSR, Mystara-relevant Judge Guild supplements, a list of various magazine #s that contain adventures, rules or world description pertaining to Mystara, novels, TSR net resources, and Clark Ashton Smith stories related to Averoigne. All of these are ranked according to compatibility with Mystara (explicit, implicit, compatible, etc.) and the type of product (campaign source, rules supplement, adventure, etc.). Q: And where can I buy those products? A: Since the Mystara line is out of print, it is difficult to find them. If you're lucky you can find them in any shop that sells RPG stuff, or buy second-hand books. Some places where you can find Mystara stuff on the web: http://www.dragontrove.com/listing.html http://www.titan-games.com/ http://www.rpgspot.com/main.htm http://www.hitpointe.com http://www.eskimo.com/~darkh/ http://www.ida.net/users/groverm/sleeping.dragon/sdh.html http://www.djhobby.com/catalog/index.html http://www.sagesguild.com/ http://www.crazyegors.com/ the newsgroup rec.games.frp.marketplace. Q: Where can I find the FAQ for the Mystara mailing list? A: Check at http://www.io.com/~oryon/mmlfaq.htm. AFAIK there is no plain text version of this FAQ. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #669 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, October 7 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 670 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.4 (repost) Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.4 (repost) Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re[MYSTARA] - Glantri questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.4 (repost) Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.4 (repost) [MYSTARA] - Night Howlers Re: [MYSTARA] - Night Howlers Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[MYSTARA]Regarding Stefan : not serious Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.4 (repost) Re: [MYSTARA] - Night Howlers [MYSTARA] - DA series Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.4 (repost) Re: [MYSTARA] - Night Howlers Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.4 (repost) [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:00:05 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.4 (repost) Actually there are really 3 Blackmoors, because their is a Blackmoor attached to the old Judge's Guild world, the "First Fantasy Campaign" accessory. The map used for the DA series Blackmoor is esentially a copy of the map done for J.G., but on the Mystara standard scale (the J.G. map was 5 miles/hex, the DA one 24 miles/hex). > > Q: Blackmoor? I know a Blackmoor, but it's part of Greyhawk, isn't it? > A: Blackmoor was, like Greyhawk, the campaign world of one of TSR's > founder. It was later placed in both Greyhawk and the Known World (as a > past kingdom in the later), effectively making two Blackmoors exist. It > seems there is no further relation between the two Blackmoors, however, > although some people made the assumption. > > Q: Where is it located? > A: Blackmoor was a techno-magical kingdom that blew itself up a few > millenia ago. The event shifted the planet's axis and Blackmoor is now > the > north pole. > Sources are contradictory as to where Blackmoor stands; some place it on > Brun, some on Skothar. Arguments in favor of Brun are the position of > the > Inn Between the Worlds and the Nucleus of the Sphere, and the fact that > the > Known World stands there; this is the solution proposed in some > Gazetteers. > Arguments in favor of Skothar are its sort of canonical status, and the > feeling that all civilizations should not systamatically come from the > Known World; this is the solution proposed in the Hollow World box. Note > that, if you consider the Hollow World solution to be the truth in your > campaign, the map in the box does have a typo : the names of Blackmoor > and > Thonia have been reversed (Blackmoor was north of the Empire of Thonia > according to all other sources). > Bruce Heard's opinion on this matter : > << Blackmoor -- the travelling legend. If there were archaeologist on > Mystara, they would have a devil of time figuring where the darn place > was > really located. Officially, it's supposed to be up there by the Thonian > Marches. Unfortunately, conflicting info has crept into several > products, > getting in the way of the Thonian theory. The best thing is to assume > evidence of Blackmoor's presence elsewhere is the result of later > colonizations and outposts. Other communities were also magically > displaced > (such as a certain ancient tavern in the Broken Lands of the Known > World). > Definitely a messy development of the World of Mystara! :) >> > So officially the answer is Skothar. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:47:06 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.4 (repost) On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > Actually there are really 3 Blackmoors, because their is a Blackmoor > attached to the old Judge's Guild world, the "First Fantasy Campaign" > accessory. The map used for the DA series Blackmoor is esentially a copy of > the map done for J.G., but on the Mystara standard scale (the J.G. map was > 5 miles/hex, the DA one 24 miles/hex). Just as a preface note - conserve bandwidth, you don't need to repost more than 5 lines if it isn't directly nessecary. On another note, It seems to me that Mystaran "canon" Blackmoor is an extrapolation of the DA series' Blackmoor, since the DA map is a bit big to fit on either Skothar or Brun perfectly. If this is the case, then should we dismiss DA? No. The information there is perfectly valid, but as we all know, it has been updated a lot through other supplements. Ergo, pretty much do what you want :) An another another note: I dunno if it is important, but Yalu bay on all the color Mystara maps in the RC and HW is miscolored. It should be blue, since it is a patch of ocean :) Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 19:13:22 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards > well...i'll admit to being a detail freak myself. however, i tend to veer away > from such things as detailling the Alphatian Grand Council. knowing my own > tendencies i'd end up detailing all 1000 36th level mages. note political ties > and rivals. note factions. i am bad about over doing description work. > > i'd rather keep it vague and introduce a council member or two if the campaign > calls for it. At least the working, the factions and the political ties you could use from my article. Simply remove all members you don't like and replace them by other. Or didn't you like my ideas on that matter neither? This really would make me sad. :-( Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 19:17:07 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor > The original setting for Blackmoor was the Broken Lands. This is > according to the first published material to say so: DA 1 - Adventures in > Blackmoor. This is why the Inn Between the Worlds is in the middle of the > Broken Lands (it was in the middle of Blackmoor, the Gate in the IBtWs > transports people through time but not through space). This is also why the > Broken Lands are "broken" to begin with (Blackmoor blew itself up, leaving > the devasted terrain of the modern Broken Lands and obscuring most traces of > itself in the process). Furthermore, this is why the NoS is under Glantri > City (it is where the Beagle was stranded, and where the final malfunction > of the engines caused them to heat up and sink into the ground - leaving no > access tunnel). Astute paleogeographers will note that the distance between > the IBtWs and the Beagle in the Blackmoor era is about the same as the > distance between the IBtWs and Glantri City in the modern era. AFAIK the Broken Lands were created when elves living in the Highlands (now Glantri) found and used an old Blackmoor artifact. Finally they blowed up the whole region. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 19:08:43 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor > >> Jenn "The Witch of NC" > > >Fire-resistant? Then you're probably susceptible to cold. :-) > > >"A witch! Freeze her! Freeze her!" > > Aaargh!! He's found my one true weakness--being a popsicle!! > :-) And now, all licking the witch-popsicle... :-) (Or witchsicle ?) Jamuga Khan "That? Or just a piece of witch. Reincarnation? I really don't know what you're talking about." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 19:31:01 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re[MYSTARA] - Glantri questions >Why didn't the same thing happen to Catherine? The only answer I can >devise is that cooptation of the Prince's wife to nobility is not >automatic, even when she is a name level wizard, and that Etienne >expressely named Isidore as heiress. Or alternately, she didn't care about ruling. I don't think Etienne named anyone his heir, since if he did the whole succession argument wouldn't have happened (the heir would have a claim above anyone else, and the Council would have approved him). Besides, I think Etienne would probably name his son as heir. >However, this poses another problem: is Diane de Moriamis a Princess with >the same powers of her husband? > I'd say yes, she does. But since she isn't interested in ruling the least bit, that isn't too relevant. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 15:19:36 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.4 (repost) At 05:33 PM 10/7/98 CEST, Herve Musseau wrote: > >A: These are the immortals of the Church of Karameikos, as told by Bruce >Heard in an old Dragon Magazine: >Asterius (Eternal of Thought), Leader >Kagyar (Eternal of Matter) >Ilsundal (Hierarch of Thought) >Valerias (Hierarch of Matter) >Vanya (Empyreal of Time). This causes me a problem. While this line-up would fit with the Church of Thyatis, the Church of Karameikos doesn't seem to me on that would include Asterius, patron of thieves. They're too lawful. If Asterius was venerated then wouldn't the Order of the Griffon allow them to join? This has been a Galwylin® Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:28:41 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.4 (repost) > > This causes me a problem. While this line-up would fit with the Church of > Thyatis, the Church of Karameikos doesn't seem to me on that would include > Asterius, patron of thieves. They're too lawful. If Asterius was > venerated then wouldn't the Order of the Griffon allow them to join? > IIRC, Asterius is also a patron of trade & merchants, not just thieves (yes, yes, I'm sure some wag will come back and say "what's the diference", so I'll save you the trouble). Still, merchants are considered a legal part of the economy etc, so IMO Asterius could be appropriate. Then you have more clandestine worship of Ast. by the thieves. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 16:45:16 -0400 From: Christopher Haynes Subject: [MYSTARA] - Night Howlers I'm new to the list, so I hope this message doesn't seem foolish. I recently bought a used copy of the Creature Crucible "Night Howlers," and unfortunately the "large, full-color map" wasn't included. Can anyone tell me what was printed on it? I have no way of knowing whether or not there was more to it than perhaps the Valley of Wolves. (Of course, if anybody knows where I could get a copy, that would also help.) Thanks! CHRISTOPHER HAYNES ICQ# 15160078 - ---------------------------------------------- BRIMSTONE http://www.users.ezwv.com/~lynn/brimdex.htm - ---------------------------------------------- THE BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN'S WEDDING ALBUM http://www.users.ezwv.com/~lynn/bride.htm - ---------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 16:54:11 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Night Howlers On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Christopher Haynes wrote: > unfortunately the "large, full-color map" wasn't included. Can anyone tell Only the valley was mapped out, but it was mapped in nice 8 miles per hex format :) Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 20:52:46 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[MYSTARA]Regarding Stefan : not serious At 02.10 06/10/98 PDT, GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine wrote: >In French it has been traducted as Black Castle (Noircastel for those >who enjoy knowing French) : perhaps Karameikos has French version ;o) The unfortunate Italian traslation is "Forte Destino", i.e. Fort Destiny. A literal translation that doesn't convey the negative meaning of "doom". Mmmh... maybe Stefan knew only the Italian name :-) ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 23:06:52 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.4 (repost) At 11.00 07/10/98 -0500, James Ruhland wrote: >The map used for the DA series Blackmoor is esentially a copy of >the map done for J.G., but on the Mystara standard scale (the J.G. map was >5 miles/hex, the DA one 24 miles/hex). Or 12 miles/hex as I recently noted comparing the maps of DA1 and DA4... ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 23:34:28 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Night Howlers At 16.54 07/10/98 -0400, SteelAngel wrote: >Only the valley was mapped out, but it was mapped in nice 8 miles per hex >format :) I think there's a gremlin near your PC: the map was 1 mile per hex :-) ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 23:46:56 +0200 From: Michele Vacchiano Subject: [MYSTARA] - DA series Hi everybody!! Just caught into the list, wandered a bit around the headers and heard about "DA series". I live in Italy, and have been following TSR products for 5 or 6 years now. Of course, I've missed all the basic products for Blackmoor and Thonia stories, like Dawn of Emperors, Da series, and all the old modules. Can I get some of them from you in any way? (please reply on my e-mail address: michele.vacchiano@torino.alpcom.it or ICQ 12330571). Thank you all! Giorgio "clouds are ethereal and fee, because they gave up following the rules of the Earth" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 17:18:00 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.4 (repost) At 03:28 PM 10/7/98 -0500, James Ruhland wrote: > >IIRC, Asterius is also a patron of trade & merchants, not just thieves >(yes, yes, I'm sure some wag will come back and say "what's the diference", >so I'll save you the trouble). Still, merchants are considered a legal part >of the economy etc, so IMO Asterius could be appropriate. Oh, I figured it was his concern of trade and merchants that is the reason he's included. I just think him as a patron of thieves would make that secondary. I mean, its the lawful aspect of the Church that were talking about and that alignment has never struck me as flexable enough to overlook something like this. And we've never seen the CoK as very interested in commerce to even consider an Immortal that would look kindly to thieves (one tenet of their faith they forbid). This has been a Galwylin® Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:13:28 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Night Howlers On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > I think there's a gremlin near your PC: the map was 1 mile per hex :-) Doh. Last Technomantic computer I buy from the Citadel. Ethan - Hand me my wand of Gremlins! - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:33:37 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.4 (repost) >>IIRC, Asterius is also a patron of trade & merchants, not just thieves >>(yes, yes, I'm sure some wag will come back and say "what's the diference", >>so I'll save you the trouble). Still, merchants are considered a legal part >>of the economy etc, so IMO Asterius could be appropriate. > >Oh, I figured it was his concern of trade and merchants that is the reason >he's included. I just think him as a patron of thieves would make that >secondary. I mean, its the lawful aspect of the Church that were talking >about and that alignment has never struck me as flexable enough to overlook >something like this. And we've never seen the CoK as very interested in >commerce to even consider an Immortal that would look kindly to thieves >(one tenet of their faith they forbid). OTOH, given the way the CoK's doctrine of cleansing one's "stained soul" is often misinterpreted as a license to sin -- provided you atone later -- it could be that Asterius is playing both sides of the fence! By setting up that kind of a system (selling indulgences, essentially), he looks very virtuous and Lawful to the majority of worshippers, yet it also leaves an angle for his shadier followers to take advantage of. Sure, begging off sins with penance LOOKS like an abuse of "pure" CoK doctrine ... but it might've been set up that way by Asterius intentionally, with even his own "straight" clergy none the wiser. Asterius is a Thought-Immortal: he'd be devious enough to come up with something like that. :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 20:02:43 -0700 From: Lee Theisen Subject: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor >At 08:37 PM 10/5/98 -0400, you wrote: >> >>Does any body know what year the Beagle landed on Mystara and what year did >>it explode? If you can, please give me the dates in blackmoor and modern >>mystara. > >The only canonical date to be had is that the Beagle crash landed five years prior to the events of module DA3: City of the Gods. Shortly after this, an expedition was sent by the Regency Council to investigate the mysterious ship, and William "the Fetch" Fletcher was a part of the expedition. > >The chronology of the modules is roughly thus: > >DA1 (no time specified) -> DA2: 2 months following DA1 -> DA3: 2 months following DA2-> DA4: 3 months following DA3. (It is a very eventful year in Blackmoor). > >Aside from that, all we know is that the Afridhi began their migration some 20 odd years prior to DA1, an event that really set into motion the rise of Blackmoor. > >There is a timeline I worked out some time ago that should still be available on Shawn's website... > >>Also around what date did Blackmoor have advanced technology. So far in the >>DA series I have seen nothing on Blackmoor technology only the technology >>from the Beagle. > >No canonical dates ever given. > > >Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 20:11:57 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions >Well, both elven princesses are widows of former >princes. Actually, Carlotina was, but Carnelia inherited from her father--her husband (Miguel, since the eldest son is Miguelito?) was off adventuring and never returned, so we can't know if her father had intended for her or both of them to inherit. What it does show, however, is that Carnelia's father thought that either she (or the two of them) would be better rulers than Hippolito, her elder brother. So what we have here, as far as I can tell, is a named succession in Belcadiz, a widow inheriting from her husband in Erewan, but the son inheriting in Averoigne. Jherek inherited from his father, and their male line extends back four generations. The same goes for Jaggar, unless I am mistaken. I could go on but I think the main point is that each principality would have their own customs and laws of succession. Not surprising at all, considering that Glantri is more of a loose confederation than a single nation. Jenn valerya@hotmail.com Valerya@webtv.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ "The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so much as to make settled things strange." (GK Chesterton) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 20:12:05 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions >Well, both elven princesses are widows of former >princes. Actually, Carlotina was, but Carnelia inherited from her father--her husband (Miguel, since the eldest son is Miguelito?) was off adventuring and never returned, so we can't know if her father had intended for her or both of them to inherit. What it does show, however, is that Carnelia's father thought that either she (or the two of them) would be better rulers than Hippolito, her elder brother. So what we have here, as far as I can tell, is a named succession in Belcadiz, a widow inheriting from her husband in Erewan, but the son inheriting in Averoigne. Jherek inherited from his father, and their male line extends back four generations. The same goes for Jaggar, unless I am mistaken. I could go on but I think the main point is that each principality would have their own customs and laws of succession. Not surprising at all, considering that Glantri is more of a loose confederation than a single nation. Jenn valerya@hotmail.com Valerya@webtv.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ "The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so much as to make settled things strange." (GK Chesterton) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 20:21:05 -0700 From: Lee Theisen Subject: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor At 11:33 AM 10/7/98 -0400,"DJ Sahlas" wrote: > > I can't resist wading into this (it's one of my pet peeves regarding >authors who simply disregarded previously published facts, creating >inconsistencies in a previously coherent world) Much as I hate to see this thread resurface again, myself ('cause it usually ends up badly), I just have a few comments. > The original setting for Blackmoor was the Broken Lands. This is >according to the first published material to say so: DA 1 - Adventures in >Blackmoor. This is why the Inn Between the Worlds is in the middle of the >Broken Lands (it was in the middle of Blackmoor, the Gate in the IBtWs >transports people through time but not through space). This is also why the >Broken Lands are "broken" to begin with (Blackmoor blew itself up, leaving >the devasted terrain of the modern Broken Lands and obscuring most traces of >itself in the process). Comment #1: While I agree with this sentiment, even the DA modules are not entirely clear on this point. It is mentioned that the IBtW was buried under earth, and floods, and ended up where it currently is, hundreds of years after the cataclysm that destroyed Blackmoor. That, plus the description of the IBtW as "resting on a bowl shaped black rock formation" can lead to the assumption that the Inn itself was picked up and moved around over the centuries, finally ending up where it is. Admittedly, I fail to see how, even so, it could have moved hundreds of miles from its former location (as the HW maps would have us believe), but an argument could be made for it. I do agree, though, that the Broken Lands (and that region of the KW) were intended to be the location of Blackmoor, though. >Furthermore, this is why the NoS is under Glantri City (it is where the Beagle >was stranded, and where the final malfunction of the engines caused them to >heat up and sink into the ground - leaving no access tunnel). Astute >paleogeographers will note that the distance between the IBtWs and the Beagle >in the Blackmoor era is about the same as the distance between the IBtWs and >Glantri City in the modern era.(Triangulating based on the differences between >the north/south axises(axes?) in ancient and modern times allows for >calculation of the degree of planetary tilt that resulted from the explosion >and the Great Rain of Fire). Comment #2: It isn't entirely clear why Bruce placed the NoS underneath Glantri, but presumably it is as you say (that's my guess, but Bruce hasn't commented one way or the other). In fact, last time this topic arose, Bruce noted that, currently, the Blackmoor location from the HW map was the canonical location for it. He also didn't say whether (IIRC) he agreed with this interpretation or not. At any rate, Allston left himself an out for this in WotI, when he notes that an Old One moved the NoS to its present location. A cop out, IMO, but it's there. Note that he also mentions the Old One altered the NoS to its magic draining state. Another seeming "correction" to Bruce's earlier work on GAZ3 that didn't seemingly need any correcting, IMO. So take into account that Allston appeared to be doing a bit of his own retconning, as we call it in the comic industry. One last bit about that- the distance thingy really depends on what scale you're using. As Fabrizio pointed out to me recently, there are two different scales on the DA series maps. The one in DA1 is at 24 miles per hex, and covers a vastly greater area than the KW we know, while the maps in DA2 and 3 (DA3's being exactly identical to DA1, save for scale and some new towns/outposts), are both listed at 12 miles per hex. >Finally, the reason that a common tongue of sorts exists at all on Brun, and >the reason PCs are able to communicate with ancient Blackmoorians (who spoke >Thonian) is that modern Thyatis-based "common" is derived from ancient >Thonian. Comment #3: Yup. And I've always treated the term "Thyatis" as a sort of corrupted form of "Thonia". DA1 also makes mention of Thonia as a place (and time) recalled by the PCs, and that the house of Andahar (the first king of Blackmoor) is recalled as well as the last "Thonian Church of Remembrance" being burned within recent memory. For more, see my next comment. >In this case, I reasoned that the Empire of Thonia (which was indeed quite >vast) actually extended as far as a corner of modern day Skothar. The >collapse of the Thonian Empire that paralleled the rise of the Blackmoor era >led to the preservation of only the farthest-flung outpost of the previously >mighty Empire of Thonia as a distinctly Thonian region, (and then only as a >province of Blackmoor). Comment #4: Actually, there is a simpler explanation than that. DA1's history section mentions the current region of Thonia as "a pale shadow of it's former glory" (paraphrase). The insinuation is that the Thonians migrated to the current region known as Thonia following the destruction of Blackmoor. The remnants of this decadent Empire were never again able to regain their former glory. Along with this, then, I have always reasoned that there was another emigration from the Thonian region, but to the south, and the continent of Davania, where the Thyatian tribes eventually emerged. > Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. ;) Comment #5: All in all, a good dissection, and one that I am and always have been in wholehearted agreement with. :) Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #670 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, October 8 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 671 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Night Howlers Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Alph Currency markings &tc. Re: [MYSTARA] - Status??? Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Status??? Re: [MYSTARA] - Night Howlers [MYSTARA] - Mare and Maria.. not quite the same [MYSTARA] - von Drachenfels, part ?+1 Re: Re[MYSTARA] - Glantri questions RE: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[MYSTARA]Regarding Stefan : not serious Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.4 (repost) Re: [MYSTARA] - Night Howlers Re: Re[MYSTARA] - Glantri questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 20:19:13 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor >And now, all licking the witch-popsicle... :-) > >(Or witchsicle ?) lol...I shall return...You shall never stop my heresy--killing me only makes me stronger...8-) Jenn, the Martyred Witch of NC ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 20:24:26 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards >At least the working, the factions and the political ties you could use >from my article. Simply remove all members you don't like and replace them by other. >Or didn't you like my ideas on that matter neither? >This really would make me sad. :-( You know, I'm sorry I didn't say anything about your article when I first read it, but I will take the oppurtunity now. I really enjoyed it. I liked the info on the working groups. I may respectfully disagree with your opinions concerning clerics and paladins, but I appreciated reading something which went into such great detail. Just interjecting...:-) Jenn valerya@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ --*Updated! 10/6/98*-- "The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so much as to make settled things strange." (GK Chesterton) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 20:24:45 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards >At least the working, the factions and the political ties you could use >from my article. Simply remove all members you don't like and replace them by other. >Or didn't you like my ideas on that matter neither? >This really would make me sad. :-( You know, I'm sorry I didn't say anything about your article when I first read it, but I will take the oppurtunity now. I really enjoyed it. I liked the info on the working groups. I may respectfully disagree with your opinions concerning clerics and paladins, but I appreciated reading something which went into such great detail. Just interjecting...:-) Jenn valerya@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ --*Updated! 10/6/98*-- "The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so much as to make settled things strange." (GK Chesterton) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 21:04:29 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Night Howlers >(Of course, if anybody >knows where I could get a copy, that would also help.) Thanks! Hi, Christopher, welcome to the list!! Well, I don't know if I'm too late with this, but I checked for you, and Dragontrove has that module (very reputable place). EM5--PC4 Night Howlers MINT in shrink wrap $11.00 You can include that line in the message to stackmc@aol.com, with name and info, etc. Mike will get back to you with the confirmation. Dragontrove is at http://www.dragontrove.com Hope this doesn't sound like a cheap "Darokinian" plug--it's not--but I hope it helps. Regards, Jenn valerya@hotmail.com Valerya@webtv.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ "The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so much as to make settled things strange." (GK Chesterton) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 00:38:31 -0400 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor >AFAIK the Broken Lands were created when elves living in the Highlands (now >Glantri) found and used an old Blackmoor artifact. Finally they blowed up >the whole region. > > Jamuga Khan Actually, I always thought the elves were blamed for this erroneously! Then again, you may be correct (now where did I read that?) Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 00:54:12 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Regarding Alph Currency markings &tc. In a message dated 10/6/98 7:26:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: << Alex you made a great point...of course, the un-haughty slogans of American currency (In GOD we trust...not ourselves, but God, right?) didn't really back you up very well! Was it a saying or a slogan for Darokin, "He who has the gold makes the rules"? Anyone have a gazetteer handy? >> that reference to US coinage was a bit out of context. not pointing fingers as i wasn't exactly clear with it. i really wasn't implying US stampings to be haughty. instead i was focusing on using it as an example of national idealisms and symbolism. so sorry about that. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 01:01:37 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Status??? In a message dated 10/7/98 12:53:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, galwylin@airnet.net writes: << >Also, sometime back it was rumored that Terari was to make an appearance in Ed >Greenwood's Wizard Three. Any update on that? Terari is supposed to be in the one after next Wizard's Three. I think both have been pushed back so I wouldn't look for it till some time next year. At least that's what the grapevine is saying. I didn't make it to Dave Gross's recent seminar on TSR Live so I wasn't able to find out specifics. >> thanks. since you brought it up, how is the chat system at the tsr site? i visit the mmb a couple times a week but haven't messed with the chat stuff. is the ichat chat software any good? btw- for those that do frequent the mmb i haven't exactly been vocal there. i am pretty much a lurker. i think i have posted there twice under the name "Alphatian". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 01:12:55 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards In a message dated 10/7/98 2:31:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JamugaKhan@gmx.net writes: << > well...i'll admit to being a detail freak myself. however, i tend to veer away > from such things as detailling the Alphatian Grand Council. knowing my [snip] At least the working, the factions and the political ties you could use from my article. Simply remove all members you don't like and replace them by other. Or didn't you like my ideas on that matter neither? This really would make me sad. :-( >> khan....khan....khan, i told you my disagreement with your Alphatian Council was with the inclusion of nonmages. actually i have no other real problems with it. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 00:52:17 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Status??? At 01:01 AM 10/8/98 EDT, Alex295@aol.com wrote: > >thanks. since you brought it up, how is the chat system at the tsr site? i >visit the mmb a couple times a week but haven't messed with the chat stuff. is >the ichat chat software any good? iChat can be tempermental. It usually works well with version 3 of most browsers. But I have a good time there. Very laid back and fun. Interests vary so if you're talking about one subject and someone brings up another more attractive, it usually heads that way till someone brings something else up. This has been a Galwylin® Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 04:29:51 -0400 From: Christopher Haynes Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Night Howlers At 09:04 PM 10/7/98 PDT, Jennifer Favia wrote: >Well, I don't know if I'm too late with this, but I >checked for you, and Dragontrove has that module (very >reputable place). > >EM5--PC4 Night Howlers MINT in shrink wrap $11.00 > >You can include that line in the message to >stackmc@aol.com, with name and info, etc. Mike will get >back to you with the confirmation. Dragontrove is at >http://www.dragontrove.com Hope this doesn't sound >like a cheap "Darokinian" plug--it's not--but I hope it >helps. Ha, ha! Believe it or not, that's who I bought my used copy of Night Howlers from in the first place! Unfortunately, he didn't warn me the map was missing last time. Still, I have done business with him more than once now and I agree -- he's a very reputable person. I've already traded hundreds of dollars worth of merchandise with him this year, and am currently waiting for another order to arrive within the next week. CHRISTOPHER HAYNES ICQ# 15160078 - ---------------------------------------------- BRIMSTONE http://www.users.ezwv.com/~lynn/brimdex.htm - ---------------------------------------------- THE BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN'S WEDDING ALBUM http://www.users.ezwv.com/~lynn/bride.htm - ---------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 11:11:19 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mare and Maria.. not quite the same On Sat, 3 Oct 1998 17:30:12 -0400 Sharon "Rotipher" Dornhoff wrote: <> Sorry to contradict you here, Sharon, but "Mari" is the plural of "Mare".. while Maria.. err.. well, it's a slang term for marjuana in Italian.. be careful not to confuse the two 8p PS: I really liked your Hollow Moon gazetteer, even though I'd object to the really long traveling time you suggest for space travel.. but as you may or may not know, objecting is one of my favourite pastimes.. ;) PPS: thanx for mentioning my ideas on Mystara and Spelljammer in your articles btw.. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:20:37 +0300 (EET DST) From: Harri M{ki Subject: [MYSTARA] - von Drachenfels, part ?+1 JOHANN VON DRACHENFELS Johann was already middle-aged, 45-year old competent wizard when he followed his father as Prince. In his younger days he had been as social as his father. He had been good-looking, fun-loving young man. Everyone liked him. During the years he had come more reclusive and he was increasingly centered his life for magic research. So when he became as Prince he immediately asked his younger brother Georg to help him. And when Johann was made Viceroy of Ylourgne, he send his cousin Gerhard there and gave him and Georg freehands in military matters. Years went easily, only problems were some humanoid raids from mountains. But Johann didn't have to worry about these because Georg take care of these. One major problem was inheritance. Johann and his wife Sophie were childess. Everyone assumed that Georg would be the next prince if he outlives his brother, but Johann didn't comment the question. Major alteration for his reclusive life of studying came in 950. Johann was in every measures greatest magician of that time and by far best wizard amongst von Drachenfels -family. In that year he was chosen as Grandmaster of the Great School of Magic. He had to move in the Glantri City. In fact he was relieved, now he could leave all matters concerning Aalban to his brother and concentrate totally to magic. He was one of the best grandmasters the Great School had had. Students and other teachers liked him and he liked teaching more than politics. That can't be said about every grandmaster. Then in 956 others begun to see some changes in Johann. He began to forget thinks, he didn't remember what he was doing or saying, he disappeared and was later found odd places without any knowledge what he was doing. His erratic behavior began to affect everyone in the School increasingly. Something have to be done. Georg von Drachenfels came before the Council and proposed that they let Johann to keep his status as Prince but that they take grandmastership away from him. His brother was clearly became a senile and cannot any more take care of his responsibilities. Georg said that because he had already taken care of Aalban for years he doesn't want to replace his brother as Prince. He had no ambitions to that position and will waite Johann's death. Council agreed to these proposals and made Johann as Viceroy of Nordling. Johann's successor as Grandmaster Chart Erewan liked Johann and let him keep his quarters at the Great School. Johann von Drachenfels wandered at corridors of the School for next four years before finally disappearing in 961 at the age of 66. t:Harri Mäki hihama@uta.fi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:59:57 +0200 (METDST) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Re[MYSTARA] - Glantri questions On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: > > Or alternately, she didn't care about ruling. IMO, this in not probable, as she once conspired with Henri to eliminate Etienne: when he disappeared, Catherine should have tried to take his place. > I don't think Etienne > named anyone his heir, since if he did the whole succession argument > wouldn't have happened (the heir would have a claim above anyone else, > and the Council would have approved him). Besides, I think Etienne would > probably name his son as heir. > Both sons (Jean-Louis and Claude) are fighters, so they should be ineligible. > >However, this poses another problem: is Diane de Moriamis a Princess with > >the same powers of her husband? > > > I'd say yes, she does. But since she isn't interested in ruling the > least bit, that isn't too relevant. > Another question: why did she married Malachie? Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 00:58:06 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor At 19.58 05/10/98 -0400, Geoff Gander wrote: >Sharon said: > >>Maybe those immense tunnel-networks of the Broken Lands and shadow-elf >>territories REALLY started out as gargantuan mines excavated by Blackmoor >>-- which explains how the shadow elves' ancestors knew where to run, to get >>underground -- and the Beagle's reactor was transported to Brun, because >>that's where late-era Blackmoor was getting its uranium and processing it >>into fissionable material. >> >This is a cool idea. What do you have to say about this, Fabrizio? Well, I don't know very much about Blackmoor (I'm reading the DA series right now), but SE-wise I think it's ok. Uranium mines ---> Soul Crystals ---> Radiance, Chamber of the Spheres, Deformed Babies.... Very interesting! Anyway we shouldn't forget that the shadow elves regurarly reroute and rebuild their tunnels, so the tunnel-network will look very different nowadays. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:29:59 +0200 (METDST) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Jennifer Favia wrote: > > So what we have here, as far as I can > tell, is a named succession in Belcadiz, a widow > inheriting from her husband in Erewan, but the son > inheriting in Averoigne. Jherek inherited from his > father, and their male line extends back four > generations. The same goes for Jaggar, unless I am > mistaken. I could go on but I think the main point is > that each principality would have their own customs and > laws of succession. Not surprising at all, considering > that Glantri is more of a loose confederation than a > single nation. > I would say that : 1) Princes can designate any name level mage as heir. 2) They often choose to follow local customs, like the Krondaharian father-elder son succession. 3) When a Prince dies before designating a successor, the Council appoints the oldest eligible descendant. This seem to work for most situations. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 08:34:19 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re:[MYSTARA]Regarding Stefan : not serious That is extremely interesting! Actually I can see how "Doom" would be translated as "Destiny". It really makes a lot of sense... "Thy doom is upon thee!" "Thy destiny is upon thee!" Very interesting indeed. Its why I always liked etymology... Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > > At 02.10 06/10/98 PDT, GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine wrote: > >In French it has been traducted as Black Castle (Noircastel for those > >who enjoy knowing French) : perhaps Karameikos has French version ;o) > > The unfortunate Italian traslation is "Forte Destino", i.e. Fort Destiny. A > literal translation that doesn't convey the negative meaning of "doom". > > Mmmh... maybe Stefan knew only the Italian name :-) > ************** > Fabrizio Paoli > brizio@gdr.net > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 > ************** > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:05:11 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.4 (repost) On Tue, 7 Oct 1997, Galwylin wrote: > At 05:33 PM 10/7/98 CEST, Herve Musseau wrote: > > > >A: These are the immortals of the Church of Karameikos, as told by Bruce > >Heard in an old Dragon Magazine: > This causes me a problem. While this line-up would fit with the Church of > Thyatis, the Church of Karameikos doesn't seem to me on that would include > Asterius, patron of thieves. They're too lawful. If Asterius was > venerated then wouldn't the Order of the Griffon allow them to join? IMO, the question of Asterius being the patron of thieves is a matter og great theological debate. All members of the Cok deny this. In Karameikos Asterius is seen as the Patron of Communication. The Immortal of Speech if you like. He is the Messenger of the Immortals, and if humans want to understand the will of the Immortals they should listen to Asterius. I like to draw these paralells between the CoK and Roman Catholocism: God="The Immortals" Jesus=Asterius This should not be taken too literary. Asterius is very different from Jesus, but he fills a similar role, though the myths surrounding him are different. The Church is lawful, and Asterius fits in nicely, according to Jowett, anyway. Problem: Misunderstandings? Why dont the clerics just ask Asterius whether he is the Immortal of thieves or not? IMO, this is the ultimate campaign-pooper. IMO any communication with immortals should be left vague. A cleric casting a spell should consult the stars or something like that, rather than listening to a booming voice in his head. IMC, Vanya is the chief patron of the order of the griffon. As for the Church of Thyatis, I suggest the following: Khoronus (Leader) Ixion Protius Vanya Valerias The above were the original immortals of the pantheon. Later, patrons of neighbouring cultures, colonies and demihuman races have been adopted. Vanya is now the most popular immortal, even though she has a relatively minor position in early mythology of the church. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 09:09:14 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Night Howlers >Ha, ha! Believe it or not, that's who I bought my used copy of Night >Howlers from in the first place! Doh!!! Sorry (*sheepish grin*)...;-) Jenn valerya@hotmail.com Valerya@webtv.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ --Updated! 10/6/98-- "The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so much as to make settled things strange." (GK Chesterton) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 09:18:08 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: Re[MYSTARA] - Glantri questions >Another question: why did she married Malachie? Perhaps she was using him just as much as he is her. She always did seem a little preoccupied by appearances, and the social status one gets from being married to the ruler of a principality is quite an ego boost! Then again, perhaps Malachie really played her weakness (vanity), and she thought he actually cared for her. He is, after all, quite a handsome young "man." BTW, is she a werewolf? Jenn valerya@hotmail.com Valerya@webtv.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ --Updated 10/6/9-- "The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so much as to make settled things strange." (GK Chesterton) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:23:02 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor > lol...I shall return...You shall never stop my heresy--killing me only > makes me stronger...8-) > > Jenn, the Martyred Witch of NC Fine! What about an alliance? Together we should be able to overthrow all those weaklings. :-) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:30:06 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards > khan....khan....khan, i told you my disagreement with your Alphatian Council > was with the inclusion of nonmages. actually i have no other real problems > with it. I hoped that but of course I'm pleased to read it... :-) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:26:58 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 1000 Wizards > You know, I'm sorry I didn't say anything about your > article when I first read it, but I will take the > oppurtunity now. I really enjoyed it. I liked the info > on the working groups. I may respectfully disagree with > your opinions concerning clerics and paladins, but I > appreciated reading something which went into such > great detail. Thank you very much, madam. :-) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:41:25 EDT From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions In a message dated 98-10-07 02:08:03 EDT, you write: << And anyway, Catherines taking over the duties f the GM is canon, even if from the WoTI... (Not that I care too much about which is canon :) >> She could have been a care-taker just to fill the post, a la Mrs Sonny Bono in congress. Also, her appointment could have been a convieniant way for Henri to get her back home where he could keep an eye on her. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #671 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, October 9 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 672 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Re[MYSTARA] - Glantri questions Re: Re[MYSTARA] - Glantri questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Mare and Maria.. not quite the same Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions Re: Re[MYSTARA] - Glantri questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: Re[MYSTARA] - Glantri questions Re: Re[MYSTARA] - Glantri questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: Re[MYSTARA] - Glantri questions [MYSTARA] - Dynasties, Polymaths, Paragons and whatnot Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:16:23 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: Re[MYSTARA] - Glantri questions >Another question: why did she married Malachie? > Probably to get away from ruling a fief :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 21:35:25 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: Re[MYSTARA] - Glantri questions At 19.31 07/10/98 +0300, Aleksei Andrievski wrote: >I don't think Etienne named anyone his heir, Why bother to name a heir if you're Immortal? :-) >since if he did the whole succession argument >wouldn't have happened (the heir would have >a claim above anyone else, and the Council would have approved him). Besides, I think >Etienne would probably name his son as heir. Right. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 22:25:32 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor At 20.21 07/10/98 -0700, Lee Theisen wrote: >One last bit about that- the distance thingy really depends on what scale >you're using. As Fabrizio pointed out to me recently, there are two >different scales on the DA series maps. The one in DA1 is at 24 miles per >hex, and covers a vastly greater area than the KW we know, while the maps >in DA2 and 3 (DA3's being exactly identical to DA1, save for scale and some >new towns/outposts), are both listed at 12 miles per hex. They were DA3 and DA4, anyway that's not the reason I replied you. Look at page 12 of DA2, middle column, right in the center: it says that the scale of DA1 map should be 12 miles per hex, not 24. Hope this helps. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:44:39 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Andrew said: > >Along with this, then, I have always reasoned that there was another >emigration from the Thonian region, but to the south, and the continent of >Davania, where the Thyatian tribes eventually emerged. This is possible, but the HW boxed set clearly states that the Thyatians' ancestors were the Antalians, who were enslaved by the Nithians during that empire's peak and brough to Davania to work in their colonies. ***** HW DM's Sourcebook, p. 14: BC 1000: "The humans of the Northern Reaches area are enslaved by the Nithian Empire. The Nithians, made curious about the southern continent by the Traldars' flight in that direction, transport many Northern Reaches slaves to Harbourtown [at that time a Nithian colony as well] and thence to the southern continent, to colonize there. This is the southern limit of Nithian expansion, and it isn't successful: The Northern Reaches slaves soon rebel and slay their Nithian overlords. They carve out their own territor [...] and are the forefathers of the Thyatian, Kerendan, and Hattian tribes.." When the quote is there, why not? :) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:46:36 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor >>AFAIK the Broken Lands were created when elves living in the Highlands (now >>Glantri) found and used an old Blackmoor artifact. Finally they blowed up >>the whole region. >> >> Jamuga Khan > > > Actually, I always thought the elves were blamed for this erroneously! >Then again, you may be correct (now where did I read that?) > > Jim Sahlas > This information was presented in the HW boxed set, and GAZ 13 (The Shadowelves), and possibly in other sources, too. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:51:24 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mare and Maria.. not quite the same ><official term for a lunar "sea", even in English. :-)>> > >Sorry to contradict you here, Sharon, but "Mari" is the plural of "Mare".. >while Maria.. err.. well, it's a slang term for marjuana in Italian.. be >careful not to confuse the two 8p Is it? Funny, every book I've consulted about the IRL moon uses "maria" as the plural. My guess would be that it's a term which, among English-speaking astronomers, has drifted from the original Latin. Either that, or there's no telling what NASA and various selenologist-authors of the last several decades have been smoking.... ;-D >PS: I really liked your Hollow Moon gazetteer, even though I'd object to >the really long traveling time you suggest for space travel.. but as you >may or may not know, objecting is one of my favourite pastimes.. ;) Thanks! I made the travel-times so long, because I really did want it to compare with an IRL voyage to the New World; and also, to make it clear that the Moon's a lot farther than a hop, skip, and a jump away. The fact that Patera's so close creates a false impression that voidship expeditions are a cakewalk, IHMO. >PPS: thanx for mentioning my ideas on Mystara and Spelljammer in your >articles btw.. You're welcome! I didn't get a copy of CoM until last month, so your information on Shawn's site really helped a lot. :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:19:52 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Geoff Gander wrote: > This is possible, but the HW boxed set clearly states that the Thyatians' > ancestors were the Antalians, who were enslaved by the Nithians during > that empire's peak and brough to Davania to work in their colonies. I know the quote is there, however, I can't help but wonder why i was under the impression that the thyatian tribes were offshoots of the Milenians. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:36:01 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor >I know the quote is there, however, I can't help but wonder why i was >under the impression that the thyatian tribes were offshoots of the >Milenians. > >Ethan Someone a while back wrote an article explaining why the Hattians are Germanic, while the Kerendans and Thyatians are Roman, yet they descend from the same people. I think it was Mystaros, but in any case it's on Shawn's site. Basically the Thyatians and Kerendans were under Milenian influence/rulership for a brief period, long enough to change their language somewhat, and their architectural styles and outlook on life. The Hattians supposedly remained free, and so did not get influenced. So basically, if you follow this article, the Thyatians and Kerendans are essentially Milenianized Hattians. At any rate, the cultural similarities would make Thyatis the natural inheritor of all things Milenian (in theory). To tell you the truth, I was under the same impression, too. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:31:27 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions In a message dated 1998-10-07 02:08:03 Eastern Daylight Time, a122286@students.cc.tut.fi writes: > Actually no. It has not been told, as to how the succesion goes in > Glantri, or if there even is an universal habit in a country > that has this many factions. We only know, that the prince/princess > is eventually verified by the counsil. I will have to recheck this when I get home next week, but I distinctly recall reading somewhere -- I thought it was in Gaz 3 -- that the spouse or offspring of a Prince could succeed automatically, but that any other relative had to get the approval of the Council. Does anybody else remember anything of this sort? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:31:34 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[MYSTARA] - Glantri questions In a message dated 1998-10-07 16:33:48 Eastern Daylight Time, solmyr@kolumbus.fi writes: > I don't think Etienne named anyone his heir, since if he did the whole > succession argument wouldn't have happened (the heir would have a claim above > anyone else, and the Council would have approved him). Besides, I think > Etienne would probably name his son as heir. There is only one problem with that -- Etienne had no son who was a wizard and thus could be his heir. I think he had two sons, both mundaners, IIRC. That is why Isidore and Henri were able to dispute the succession -- while they might have elbowed Catherine out of the way, the Council would never have let either of them usurp the throne of New Averoigne from the son of Le Prince Magicien if said son was qualified to rule. > >However, this poses another problem: is Diane de Moriamis a Princess with > >the same powers of her husband? > > > I'd say yes, she does. But since she isn't interested in ruling the least > bit, that isn't too relevant. But when her husband disappeared, somebody should still have suggested her as the obvious heir. Even if she had no real desire to rule, surely she could be convinced that Princess Diane would be a better choice than Prince John? She would have been more amenable to the idea if she did not believe that Malachie was dead -- it would be much easier for her to turn power back over to her husband than to have to help him depose the former Archduke John. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:31:20 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Of course there is another thing about Blackmoor and its neighbors that should be pointed out -- even allowing for the cataclysmic changes that were caused by the Great Rain of fire and other disasters, there seems to be no way to reconcile the maps of Blackmoor given in the DA series with any location in the Known World. Does anyone have any combination of theories regarding the original location of Blackmoor and the changes wrought by subsequent calamities that would reconcile the Blackmoor maps with "modern" maps of Mystara? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:31:33 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions In a message dated 1998-10-07 07:49:35 Eastern Daylight Time, piu2014@ccrd200.cdc.polimi.it writes: > Why didn't the same thing happen to Catherine? The only answer I can > devise is that cooptation of the Prince's wife to nobility is not > automatic, even when she is a name level wizard, and that Etienne > expressely named Isidore as heiress. > However, this poses another problem: is Diane de Moriamis a Princess with > the same powers of her husband? She should be, but she wasn't treated that way in the PWA where Malachie was mistakenly believed to be dead -- unless something had happened to her as well, she should have been confirmed as his successor, and that whole "musical chairs" contest for new titles should never have started. In fact, given that she originally had the higher title, she should have been named Princess and Malachie named as her consort, not vice versa. While the real explanation would seem to be a combination of forgetfulness and unconscious sexism on the part of the PWA authors, the only explanation that I can come up with that is consistent with canon is that Princess Dolores is more powerful than anyone has realized -- for at least the second time she has managed to make the entire Council of Princes forget some basic laws and facts. The first time was in regard to Kol -- while the entire Council was debating whether a kobold could be named as a Prince, nobody ever pointed out that he did not meet the legal requirement of being a mage of level 9+. Similarly, when Malachie disappeared, Dolores somehow made all of the other Princes forget that his widow would have been the obvious choice for his successor. I guess her next plan will be to trick the Council of Princes into disinheriting Sigmund von Drachenfels by making them forget that Jaggar had any children by his late wife, right? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:31:16 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor > > This is possible, but the HW boxed set clearly states that the Thyatians' > ancestors were the Antalians, who were enslaved by the Nithians during > that empire's peak and brough to Davania to work in their colonies. > > Well, not to nessisarily defend the original premise (that Thyatians and Thonians have a connection, though I guess they might), but the various Thyatians are obviously not of "pure" Antalian extraction (different skin tone, blond hair rare at best, etc), so they must have intermingled with some other folks as well. Nithians a possibility, but could be others in the mixture. Depends on what kinds of historical ties folks want to set up. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:59:42 +0200 (EET DST) From: Anias Pasi Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions Me: > > Actually no. It has not been told, as to how the succesion goes in > > Glantri, or if there even is an universal habit in a country > > that has this many factions. We only know, that the prince/princess > > is eventually verified by the counsil. Kaviyd: > I will have to recheck this when I get home next week, but I distinctly > recall reading somewhere -- I thought it was in Gaz 3 -- that the spouse > or offspring of a Prince could succeed automatically, but that any other > relative had to get the approval of the Council. Does anybody else > remember anything of this sort? I tried to find something like that, but couldn't. I still think that it goes like in the case of nobles rising in the order of Rad. Those who want the post will compete, by getting the favour of different princes, or by dueling. When dueling, both parties agree that the loser, if alive, will withdraw his/her claime of the post. And eventually the counsil determines which of the stii competing candidates to choose. And what comes to the naming of heir. I would see it only as a recommendation. Say, if Etienne named catherine his heir, it would just be a stating that he thinks Catherine the most suitable. Because of this, maybe some candidates would adjust to his desire, and not claime the throne (Isidore would probably, Henri still might not). Also some princes would honor the wish, and wote accordingly. But the naming isnt for sure, at least not for sure. However the habits of different principalitys would play a big role here. Like in ethengar, it would surely be a male child that would inherit the principality. And in gaurenze, who can know, who would survive to take the principality :) or that how I see it. Also, on the subject of koll, or other nobles who arent wizards but would like to be nobles. It says in the Gaz that to be a noble, You will either have to graduate from the school, or make a big service for Glantri. So Kol is a valid prince if the Counil so desides. pasi - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 8-10 G 62 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 01:30:21 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor >Of course there is another thing about Blackmoor and its neighbors that >should be pointed out -- even allowing for the cataclysmic changes that >were caused by the Great Rain of fire and other disasters, there seems to >be no way to reconcile the maps of Blackmoor given in the DA series with >any location in the Known World. Does anyone have any combination of >theories regarding the original location of Blackmoor and the changes >wrought by subsequent calamities that would reconcile the Blackmoor >maps with "modern" maps of Mystara? I am of the opinion that any information given about Blackmoor not in the DA series is suspect. Witness what the Immortals did to Nithia and the Carnivex; virtually all traces of either culture were completely destroyed (with the exception of the Nithians in Hollow World and Thothia). The Blackmoor debacle seems, in many ways, to have been even more dangerous than the Carnivex "threat" (as seen from an Immortal perspective), and certainly more so than the Nithians. A major difference between Blackmoor and the other two is the issue of artifacts: the dangers of Nithia and Carnivex were magical, and spellbooks are easily lost or destroyed. The location where Blackmoor was, on the other hand, must be chock full of nifty little devices capable of killing entire planets (which would net the lucky adventurer more than a bit of experience). It seems prudent and logical on the part of the Immortals to ensure that not even the true location of Blackmoor be known to modern civilizations, much more so than Nithia. So to, the actual cause of Blackmoor's destruction may vary from what is reported in modern sources, such as WotI. "In the beginning, there was darkness, but before there was darkness, there was Frog" - St. Stephen Nicholas Hudson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 11:49:40 +0200 (METDST) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Re[MYSTARA] - Glantri questions On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Jennifer Favia wrote: > > > >Another question: why did she married Malachie? > > Perhaps she was using him just as much as he is her. > She always did seem a little preoccupied by > appearances, and the social status one gets from being > married to the ruler of a principality is quite an ego > boost! Then again, perhaps Malachie really played her > weakness (vanity), and she thought he actually cared > for her. He is, after all, quite a handsome young > "man." BTW, is she a werewolf? > I would say no, unless she was infected by Malachie after their wedding. In sources I can access at present time (X2 and Glantri Gaz), she is never presented as a lycanthrope. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 00:01:01 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: Re[MYSTARA] - Glantri questions >Perhaps she was using him just as much as he is her. >She always did seem a little preoccupied by >appearances, and the social status one gets from being >married to the ruler of a principality is quite an ego >boost! Then again, perhaps Malachie really played her However, when Diane married Malachie he was still a Baron, while she was a Viscountess. Only after their marriage did their fiefs unite and become a principality. Additionally, at that time, Diane was still an ugly old hag who didn't care about anything besides replacing her hair :) So I think that it's most likely that she married Malachie because she wanted to be free of the burden of rulership and have more time to look after herself (notice how she became a beautiful young woman soon afterwards?) >weakness (vanity), and she thought he actually cared >for her. He is, after all, quite a handsome young >"man." BTW, is she a werewolf? > She isn't a werewolf, but she certainly knows of her husband's condition. Additionally Diane and Malachie don't really love each other, and they both know it. They don't hate each other, either (though they spread rumors to that effect). Their marriage was merely a convenient way of getting what they wanted (more freedom for Diane, a prince's title for Malachie). Malachie currently has another woman (who is posing as his "sister" :) When it comes to Glantri, I dare anyone to try to beat me in sheer knowledge :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:29:21 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Nicholas Hudson wrote: > I am of the opinion that any information given about Blackmoor not > in the DA series is suspect. Witness what the Immortals did to Nithia > and the Carnivex; virtually all traces of either culture were completely > destroyed Laff. Let's not take this tooo seriously, now. A little historical revison on the part of TSR does not Immortal interference make. Remember, the DA series and most of the other early modules were not exactly part of a coherent world yet, the Gaz's did a good job in fixing that, even though Glantri contradicts the Shadow Elves, et al. Blackmoor was probably moved to skothar for the simple reason that having it in the middle of brun would have left a LOT more artifacts laying about. Also, why does everything have to come from Brun? Blackmoor was shifted to the "north pole" of mystara after the GRoF. If that happened, and it was on Brun, why then isn't glantri feeling the chill? Ethan - Skotharocentric Blackmoorian - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:56:14 EDT From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[MYSTARA] - Glantri questions In a message dated 98-10-09 12:30:09 EDT, you write: << She isn't a werewolf, but she certainly knows of her husband's condition. Additionally Diane and Malachie don't really love each other, and they both know it. They don't hate each other, either (though they spread rumors to that effect). Their marriage was merely a convenient way of getting what they wanted (more freedom for Diane, a prince's title for Malachie). Malachie currently has another woman (who is posing as his "sister" :) >> Not a challenge, but where does all this info come from. The Glantri box set? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 15:44:23 -0400 From: Andrew Toth Subject: [MYSTARA] - Dynasties, Polymaths, Paragons and whatnot I've been around for awhile, and there are couple of questions that I have. What are dynasties, polymaths, and paragons What are the advantages and disadvantages of becoming either? And why does founding a dynasty require time-travel? Thanks in advance. Beyowulf - Jedi Merchant Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- |/ "A wise mercenary picks his battles carefully" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:50:10 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor >Remember, the DA series and most of the other early modules were not >exactly part of a coherent world yet, the Gaz's did a good job in fixing >that, even though Glantri contradicts the Shadow Elves, et al. Considering the number of contradictory histories that exist for the shadow elves -- e.g. Which elves sacked Mictlan and built Aengmor, the post-GRoF Rafielites or the post-Broken Lands Schattenalfen...? Why do the Schattenalfen have so many deformed babies, if they don't use soul crystals...? -- I think it's an exercise in futility to try and reconcile EVERY scrap of history in the various "canon" products. Pick the history that works for your campaign, and run with it. >Blackmoor was probably moved to skothar for the simple reason that having >it in the middle of brun would have left a LOT more artifacts laying >about. Also, why does everything have to come from Brun? Agreed! Besides, the Broken Lands just aren't all that big. If Blackmoor was even half so powerful as the products imply, the GRoF would've had to lay waste to most of the continent, to destroy it! Yet there's little evidence to suggest that the whole "Known World" region got nuked in the past ... only the Broken Lands plus the Land of Black Sand. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #672 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, October 10 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 673 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dynasties, Polymaths, Paragons and whatnot Re: [MYSTARA] - Dynasties, Polymaths, Paragons and whatnot Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon History: maliability of. Re: Re[MYSTARA] - Glantri questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Dynasties, Polymaths, Paragons and whatnot [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor [MYSTARA] - Re: Glantri Questions [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor [MYSTARA] - House of Amber Succession [MYSTARA] - Test (No Text) Re: Re[MYSTARA] - Glantri questions [MYSTARA] - campaign cartographer [MYSTARA] - Meeting of European MML members Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor [MYSTARA] - Slow or Down? (test--NO TEXT) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:52:35 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dynasties, Polymaths, Paragons and whatnot >I've been around for awhile, and there are couple of questions >that I have. > >What are dynasties, polymaths, and paragons What are the >advantages and disadvantages of becoming either? And why >does founding a dynasty require time-travel? > >Thanks in advance. > >Beyowulf - Jedi Merchant >Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- > |/ >"A wise mercenary picks his battles carefully" > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 17:02:15 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dynasties, Polymaths, Paragons and whatnot >What are dynasties, polymaths, and paragons What are the >advantages and disadvantages of becoming either? And why >does founding a dynasty require time-travel? These are some of the Paths of Immortality. To become an Immortal, an oD&D character must complete a series of challenges, which differ for each Sphere (i.e. philosophy) he or she can choose to follow. To join the Sphere of Time, a character (usually a cleric) must found a nation, then travel into the future and help his or her successors with future crises; this is called the Path of the Dynast. The Sphere of Matter requires its candidates (usually fighters) to live three different lives, questing for an artifact in each incarnation; this is the Path of the Polymath. The Path of the Paragon, for the Sphere of Energy (favored by mages) requires characters to become the best example of their class -- i.e. to beat up other mages -- in a 1,000 mile radius, while training numerous apprentices. The Path of the Epic Hero (thieves) requires a character to accomplish something "impossible" and train a sidekick/successor, to earn a place in the Sphere of Thought. There are other tasks and trials (plus some hefty bribes to your sponsoring Immortal!) involved, as well. Founding a dynasty for mundane purposes -- i.e. to rule your kingdom after you die -- doesn't require anything special ... you just have to have kids. :-D *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 15:59:48 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon History: maliability of. > > crystals...? -- I think it's an exercise in futility to try and reconcile > EVERY scrap of history in the various "canon" products. Pick the history > that works for your campaign, and run with it. > This is a good point. I for one tend to use the various canon histories more as In Character histories, things that knowlegable Mystaran Historians who strive for accuracy *believe* to be true (since some of 'em can use magic to sift myth from reality, etc.), but which may not actually be accurate. That can also be a tool to throw the players off track, if historical knowlege becomes important for whatever reason. By now many, if not most, players have just as good a grasp on all this stuff as the DM does, so IMO it is a good idea to keep them off their toes. Plus, this way, things can vary from one campaing to another, small changes in the historical backround can keep the characters off balance, and helps keep Mystara fresh, IMO. I use the "canon" backround as suggested history, and make some (malevolent) twists at my whim. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 17:14:06 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: Re[MYSTARA] - Glantri questions >However, when Diane married Malachie he was still a Baron, while she was a >Viscountess. Only after their marriage did their fiefs unite and become a >principality. > > >When it comes to Glantri, I dare anyone to try to beat me in sheer >knowledge :) Remember that Malachie and the d'Ambervilles both come from Laterre, which is an alternate Earth and a male-dominated society. Custom in New Averoigne/Morlay-Malinbois might well have biased the public decision to have Malachie as Prince, even though Diane technically out-ranked him. Behind the scenes, of course, it was Malachie's recruitment of the "werewolf vote" that led to the Valley of Wolves' enfoeffment, in the first place. Had Diane been the one aspiring to the Princeship, the motion to establish the 13th principality would probably never have been submitted. BTW, Andrew, since you say know know Glantri inside and out, might Dame Diane have been Laterren too? I've read most of CAS's stories and didn't think she was there, but I could've missed her. If so, it would give her and Malachie something in common besides Alchemy, and perhaps explain why she married him instead of one of the "locals", when she decided she'd had it with ruling. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 17:18:07 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dynasties, Polymaths, Paragons and whatnot Oops ... sorry for that botched post, folks. I accidentally hit "Send" while my cursor was reaching for the menu. :-( *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 00:33:32 +0200 From: Michele Vacchiano Subject: [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail What about a campaign setting focused on the Holy Grail? D&d official modules only mention it in Master Dm Guide, listed among all the other artifacts. but I think it should deserve some more attention... I have a lot of great ideas on it. Is there someone who wants tho share them? Giorgio *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 19:12:41 EDT From: Magesmiley@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor In a message dated 10/9/98 2:25:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: << >Blackmoor was probably moved to skothar for the simple reason that having >it in the middle of brun would have left a LOT more artifacts laying >about. Also, why does everything have to come from Brun? Agreed! Besides, the Broken Lands just aren't all that big. If Blackmoor was even half so powerful as the products imply, the GRoF would've had to lay waste to most of the continent, to destroy it! Yet there's little evidence to suggest that the whole "Known World" region got nuked in the past ... only the Broken Lands plus the Land of Black Sand. >> Here's a thought - how about the Great Northern Wildlands (west of Norwold), its mostly a wasteland. from what shows up on the maps. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 18:22:47 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor At 04:50 PM 10/9/98 -0400, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > >I think it's an exercise in futility to try and reconcile >EVERY scrap of history in the various "canon" products. I agree. I seriously doubt its doable. >Agreed! Besides, the Broken Lands just aren't all that big. If Blackmoor >was even half so powerful as the products imply, the GRoF would've had to >lay waste to most of the continent, to destroy it! Yet there's little >evidence to suggest that the whole "Known World" region got nuked in the >past ... only the Broken Lands plus the Land of Black Sand. This is why I think the large island continents of Alphatia, Bellissaria, and the Isle of Dawn being the remains of the land mass Blackmoor sat on works well. An explosion that tilted the planet had to be powerful and it had to have destroyed all evidence of Blackmoor's existance completely if it was. This has been a Galwylin® Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 20:18:03 -0700 From: Lee Theisen Subject: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor At 02:42 PM 10/8/98 -0400, you wrote: >>Sharon said: >> >>>Maybe those immense tunnel-networks of the Broken Lands and shadow-elf >>>territories REALLY started out as gargantuan mines excavated by Blackmoor >>>-- which explains how the shadow elves' ancestors knew where to run, to get >>>underground -- and the Beagle's reactor was transported to Brun, because >>>that's where late-era Blackmoor was getting its uranium and processing it >>>into fissionable material. Side note: DA1 mentions extensive caverns that run underneath the kingdom of Blackmoor, and suggests a mission for PCs to map an underground route from Blackmoor city all the way to one of the nearby baronies (Glendower?). Also, both the First Fantasy Campaign setting and DA1 make mention of the caverns beneath the Castle Blackmoor itself, from whence spring numerous monstrosities. FFC also maps out about 10 or so levels of the dungeons beneath Castle Blackmoor. So there is precedent that extensive underground networks existed long before the Kingdom of Blackmoor itself. Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 20:24:51 -0700 From: Lee Theisen Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Glantri Questions At 02:42 PM 10/8/98 -0400, you wrote: >>Another question: why did she married Malachie? > >Perhaps she was using him just as much as he is her. >She always did seem a little preoccupied by >appearances, and the social status one gets from being >married to the ruler of a principality is quite an ego >boost! Then again, perhaps Malachie really played her >weakness (vanity), and she thought he actually cared >for her. He is, after all, quite a handsome young >"man." IMC, I agree with the "using him" theory. My Diane de Moriamis is more closely like the Moriamis introduced by Clark Ashton Smith in the short story "The Holiness of Azedarc" (or was it "Rendezvous in Averoigne"? I forget- anyway, I think it's the best story). In that story, she is a beautiful, powerful seductress, who is more than a little self interested, and manipulative. I was always a bit disappointed that Bruce portrayed her as a balding, fat, vain lady. I note that Aaron Allston returned her to the CAS depiction, though, in the module Mark of Amber. Anyway, back to my point. Recall that she is (both in the stories and, though not explicitly noted as such, in canon) a powerful Chronomancer. That being the case, I've always portrayed her marriage to Malachie as a mere formality, for she will inevitably outlive him, and thus eventually gain control of their Principality. It's not entirely one-sided, though. He stands to gain in the short term, she in the long. An entirely mutual usership. :) >BTW, is she a werewolf? Nope. Just a Chronomancer (or someone with the knowledge to make potions of Time Travel, anyway.) Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 20:36:34 -0700 From: Lee Theisen Subject: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor At 04:51 PM 10/9/98 -0400, you wrote: >Andrew said: >> >>Along with this, then, I have always reasoned that there was another >>emigration from the Thonian region, but to the south, and the continent of >>Davania, where the Thyatian tribes eventually emerged. > >This is possible, but the HW boxed set clearly states that the Thyatians' >ancestors were the Antalians, who were enslaved by the Nithians during >that empire's peak and brough to Davania to work in their colonies. True, but as I see it: A) "Antalians" as such didn't exist at the time. The Skandaharians, on the other hand, did. IMO, the Antalians are actually descendants of the Skandaharian peoples, and not the other way around- not that it really matters, as both peoples are essentially identical. IMC, though, I have Antalia as the name given to those white, blond, peoples to the north of the Nithian Empire (a name given them by Nithians, that is.) Not a real major issue, I suppose, but one that I prefer to use. And it isn't necessarily non-canonical, as the Skandaharians are not mentioned in canon outside of the DA series of modules (which Aaron Allston seems to have widely ignored in the HW set, anyway). b) In any case, the Thonian peoples are likely descendants of the Skandaharian/Antalian peoples that were themselves descendants of the Neathar peoples. But to address your point about the Thyatian emigration, how about this: Antalian slaves fleeing their Nithian overlords fled south to the continent of Davania. Once there, they encountered another group of humans, similar in appearance and temperament, though slightly more technologically advanced (the Thonians). Over time, the two groups intermingled, combining aspects of both cultures. The Thonian language (though different from its earlier origins, due to time and the dilution by Antalian dialects), steel weapons, and an entire new pantheon of Immortals, among other things. Perhaps the different (sometimes seemingly wildly different) tribes of Thyatis (Thyatis, Kerendas, Hattias) were actually due to varying levels of Thonian influence on the Antalian immigrants? How's that sound? :) (To be honest, I'd forgotten all about the Nithian overlord/Thyatian connection you pointed out until now. :( ) Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 20:42:04 -0700 From: Lee Theisen Subject: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor At 04:51 PM 10/9/98 -0400, you wrote: >Of course there is another thing about Blackmoor and its neighbors that >should be pointed out -- even allowing for the cataclysmic changes that >were caused by the Great Rain of fire and other disasters, there seems to >be no way to reconcile the maps of Blackmoor given in the DA series with >any location in the Known World. Does anyone have any combination of >theories regarding the original location of Blackmoor and the changes >wrought by subsequent calamities that would reconcile the Blackmoor >maps with "modern" maps of Mystara? I'm actually working on it. :) Hoping to come up with a suitable explanation. At the moment (and I don't have the maps in front of me), the obvious connection is (as has been pointed out)- the City of the Gods to the south of Blackmoor as the current location of Glantri. The location of the seas is a bit problematic, though (the eastern and northern seas, not the regions immediately around Blackmoor itself). It's a tough call, really. My best bet is to actually place it further north (on "modern" maps) near the Norwold region. I'll let you know, though. Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 20:50:18 -0700 From: Lee Theisen Subject: [MYSTARA] - House of Amber Succession In regards to the question of why Catherine D'Ambreville did not succeed Etienne upon his "death", I have just one comment to make: Maybe he took precautions to ensure she didn't succeed him on the throne. Think about it- Henri and Catherine both conspired against him for his position (X2: Castle Amber). GAZ3 makes note that Etienne took precautions against all of his relatives after Wishing them back to life- notably with Geases. Possibilities: 1) he took precautionary measures with the Council of Princes to exclude Catherine from the succession, should something ever happen to him again. Likely knowing the cause of his previous disappearance (Henri and Catherine), and the problems it caused, I could see the Princes agreeing to this. With all the intrigues in Glantri, I'd be very surprised to learn that it was the first time something like that was ever done, and there is historical (RW) precedent for such a situation... I'm sure, though I don't recall any offhand... any takers for that one? 2) Etienne Geased Catherine so that something terrible would happen to her should she ever attempt to take his position again. Certainly not outside the scope of his powers, and not entirely unbelievable. 3) Some combination of the above two. How's that sound? Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 02:23:30 -0500 From: "Chris Montgomery" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Test (No Text) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 22:28:16 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: Re[MYSTARA] - Glantri questions >Not a challenge, but where does all this info come from. The Glantri box set? Various places, including GAZ3, G:KoM, and Mark of Amber. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 14:46:17 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - campaign cartographer I downloaded several cartographer files but I dont have the softwear to open them. can somone tell me on which site it is on? thanks Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 11:31:07 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Meeting of European MML members Do you remember my message a while ago about a possible meeting of European MML members to be hold somewhere in Europe next summer? Till now I got 9 positive answers, including a Greek-Canadian. Since most of the people who answered live in or near France, I think that Paris is the best place to hold the meeting. If you're interested in the meeting write me in private e-mail. Bye. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 13:29:54 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor >>>>Maybe those immense tunnel-networks of the Broken Lands and shadow-elf >>>>territories REALLY started out as gargantuan mines excavated by Blackmoor >>>>-- which explains how the shadow elves' ancestors knew where to run, to get >>>>underground > >Side note: DA1 mentions extensive caverns that run underneath the kingdom >of Blackmoor, and suggests a mission for PCs to map an underground route >from Blackmoor city all the way to one of the nearby baronies (Glendower?). > >Also, both the First Fantasy Campaign setting and DA1 make mention of the >caverns beneath the Castle Blackmoor itself, from whence spring numerous >monstrosities. FFC also maps out about 10 or so levels of the dungeons >beneath Castle Blackmoor. > >So there is precedent that extensive underground networks existed long >before the Kingdom of Blackmoor itself. Extensive, yes. Continent-spanning? I wouldn't think so ... not as naturally-occurring caverns, anyway. Remember, there were underground migrations that went all over the map, in the post-GRoF era, by elves -- from Glantri all the way to the Five Shires, for the Gentle Folk, and clear out to the Isle of Dawn if you accept the "Ispan history" on Shawn's site; the Schattenalfen went (horizontally) all the way to Kogolor lands, which correspond to surface-world Davania! -- and also by the Broken Lands' trolls. My guess is that the cavern-networks from the DA modules are simply generic "dungeons", like you'd find in any ol' D&D setting, that don't go nearly as deep as the shadow elves' caverns do. The mapping mission you cite might even have set the stage for late-era Blackmoor's excavation of the present, gargantuan cave complex. The shadow-elf caverns are HUGE -- bigger than virtually anything in the AD&D worlds' Underdark, and FAR bigger and deeper than a "natural" cavern's got any business being. We're talking about hundreds of square miles, not just ten levels of conventional caverns; FR's Undermountain and similar "huge" dungeons are tiny, by comparison. It'd make more sense, if they were artificial remnants of Blackmoor's uranium mines ... plus, it'd explain why the radiation-spawned soul crystals are distributed through the whole network, rather than being concentrated in the Broken Lands or close to the NoS. Over time, growth of underground rock formations would have obscured their man-made origins. Besides, it'd be a nice bit of irony: the same elves who've blamed Blackmoor's humans for the GRoF for so long, might have been living in the very mines from which the nukes' fissionable material was extracted! ;-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 13:46:43 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor On Sat, 10 Oct 1998, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > explain why the radiation-spawned soul crystals are distributed through the > whole network, rather than being concentrated in the Broken Lands or close > to the NoS. Over time, growth of underground rock formations would have > obscured their man-made origins. Or could it be that the soul crystals are simply what they are described as in the SE gaz? > Besides, it'd be a nice bit of irony: the same elves who've blamed > Blackmoor's humans for the GRoF for so long, might have been living in the > very mines from which the nukes' fissionable material was extracted! ;-) Why is it considered that nuclear warfare was the GRoF? Nuclear waste takes MUCH more than just 5000 years to die away. We're talking millions or years here. Not only that, but the sum total of the Earth's present day nuclear weapons would NOT alter the axis of the planet. They would render the planet a desolate dustball without even a martian-like atmosphere, but we don't posess the power to screw up the rotation of the earth. Now, with that fallacy out of the way, why not consider the death of Blackmoor to be something a little more escoteric? Like a matter-anti-matter technological device that was pretty much disrupted by the world shield, causing a magical bend in space time? That makes a bit more scientific sense (even though there is no rational scientific explaination for Mystara anyway :) Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:48:14 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor > Someone a while back wrote an article explaining why the Hattians are > Germanic, while the Kerendans and Thyatians are Roman, yet they descend > from the same people. I think it was Mystaros, but in any case it's on > Shawn's site. Basically the Thyatians and Kerendans were under Milenian > influence/rulership for a brief period, long enough to change their > language somewhat, and their architectural styles and outlook on life. > The Hattians supposedly remained free, and so did not get influenced. So > basically, if you follow this article, the Thyatians and Kerendans are > essentially Milenianized Hattians. > > At any rate, the cultural similarities would make Thyatis the natural > inheritor of all things Milenian (in theory). To tell you the truth, I > was under the same impression, too. Well, mixing different culturs bring funny results. When Rome was a great Empire the Germans were the wild barbarians across the borders. When started to win they became civilized, but the Roman Empire of course survived. Finally we got the "Holy Roman Empire of German Nation"... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 17:08:33 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Slow or Down? (test--NO TEXT) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #673 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, October 12 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 674 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions Re: [MYSTARA] - campaign cartographer Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.4 (repost) Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Amber Succession Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Glantri Questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 21:46:33 -0400 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor At 01:46 PM 10/10/98 -0400, you wrote: >On Sat, 10 Oct 1998, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: >Nuclear waste takes MUCH more than just 5000 years to die away. We're >talking millions or years here. Not only that, but the sum total of the >Earth's present day nuclear weapons would NOT alter the axis of the >planet. They would render the planet a desolate dustball without even a >martian-like atmosphere, but we don't posess the power to screw up the >rotation of the earth. Different universe, different physics. Or perhaps more Immortal interference? >Now, with that fallacy out of the way, why not consider the death of >Blackmoor to be something a little more escoteric? Like a >matter-anti-matter technological device that was pretty much disrupted by >the world shield, causing a magical bend in space time? That makes a bit >more scientific sense (even though there is no rational scientific >explaination for Mystara anyway :) > Ahhh! Technobabble! Flee! Flee! Run Away! Hide! :) Beyowulf - Jedi Merchant Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- |/ "A wise mercenary picks his battles carefully" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 23:13:03 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions In a message dated 1998-10-09 02:38:20 Eastern Daylight Time, a122286@students.cc.tut.fi writes: > Also, on the subject of koll, or other nobles who arent wizards but would > like to be nobles. It says in the Gaz that to be a noble, You will either > have to graduate from the school, or make a big service for Glantri. > So Kol is a valid prince if the Counil so desides. To graduate from the school Kol would have had to have reached 9th level. So that raises the question -- what service did he do for Glantri? Was keeping his kobolds quiet for a little while really sufficient? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 23:13:05 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions In a message dated 1998-10-09 02:38:20 Eastern Daylight Time, a122286@students.cc.tut.fi writes: > When dueling, both parties agree that the loser, if alive, > will withdraw his/her claime of the post. > > And eventually the counsil determines which of the stii competing > candidates to choose. Actually I seem to recall that the Council vote and the dueling tend to occur in the reverse order. The Council votes on each candidate to decide his or her worthiness to become the next ruler of the principality. If two or more potential heirs are deemed to be qualified, then a duel may occur if neither one backs down. You can see why somebody who does not like either of the potential heirs to a principality and knows that neither will defer to the other would vote that both are "qualified". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 23:13:01 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail In a message dated 1998-10-09 19:06:58 Eastern Daylight Time, michele.vacchiano@torino.ALPcom.it writes: > What about a campaign setting focused on the Holy Grail? D&d official > modules only mention it in Master Dm Guide, listed among all the other > artifacts. but I think it should deserve some more attention... > I have a lot of great ideas on it. Is there someone who wants tho share > them? That would be a tough item to introduce, especially by that name -- it is too tightly associated with people and places that either actually exist or are described in legends as existing in our real world. On the other hand, that cauldron of rebirth from Celtic legend would be a great artifact to make use of in a campaign. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 21:24:03 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor >>Not only that, but the sum total of the >>Earth's present day nuclear weapons would NOT alter the axis of the >>planet. They would render the planet a desolate dustball without even a >>martian-like atmosphere, but we don't posess the power to screw up the >>rotation of the earth. No, not alone they wouldn't. But one big enough to generate a huge techno-magical firestorm could, conceivably anyway (remember it's fantasy physics:), melt or blow off an ice cap just enough to throw the axis out of alignment, causing a crustal displacement (pole shift). Jenn valerya@hotmail.com Valerya@webtv.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ "The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so much as to make settled things strange." (GK Chesterton) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 22:42:57 -0700 From: Lee Theisen Subject: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions At 08:09 PM 10/10/98 -0400, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: >BTW, Andrew, since you say know know Glantri inside and out, might Dame >Diane have been Laterren too? I've read most of CAS's stories and didn't >think she was there, but I could've missed her. If so, it would give her >and Malachie something in common besides Alchemy, and perhaps explain why >she married him instead of one of the "locals", when she decided she'd had >it with ruling. Actually, I believe that was Aleksei who dared anyone to beat him in Glantri knowledge... although I do believe I could give him a run for his money. :) But yes, Diane de Moriamis is Laterran. Her character, known only as Moriamis, appears in the short story "The Holiness of Azedarc", as a druidic/sorceress type of figure that lives in the past of Averoigne, and encounters a young priest who was sent back in time by the evil Bishop Azedarc in order that he not reach Ylourgne to report on Azedarc's sorcerous practices. She offers the priest a time travel potion in order to return home to Averoigne, but when he returns, he has passed his own time period (gone into his future), and thus returns to Moriamis in the past. There he stays with her, and it is revealed that she tricked him so that he would be forced to remain with her. She also appears in a similar fashion in module X2: Castle Amber, wherein she is a figure in the past that can serve to give the characters the necessary potion of Time Travel in order to free Etienne D'Ambreville from his curse. Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 16:33:51 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions >BTW, Andrew, since you say know know Glantri inside and out, might Dame It's Aleksei, actually :) >Diane have been Laterren too? I've read most of CAS's stories and didn't >think she was there, but I could've missed her. If so, it would give her >and Malachie something in common besides Alchemy, and perhaps explain why >she married him instead of one of the "locals", when she decided she'd had >it with ruling. > Well, from Diane's description in MoA: She came from Old Averoigne, but she lived there centuries before even Camille (Etienne's mother) was born. She created a potion of time travel which she uses to literally have a joyride through time :) She also uses youth potions liberally, which means her true age is very hard to determine. In any case, she probably wasn't on Laterre at the time when Etienne & co. were there - she traveled to the time when the Ambrevilles already went to Mystara, and used the gate to join them. I'm guessing that she never met Malachie before settling in Glantri. I don't know who are the "locals" you are referring to; Malinbois and Morlay are close to each other, and Malinbois has a lycanthropic population, so that's why Malachie courted Diane in the first place. She probably saw it as a good way to dump her fief on him, so she agreed. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi Visit the Archmage's Tower at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 13:44:18 -0500 From: "Chris Montgomery" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - campaign cartographer You can find it on www.profantasy.com I find that CC2 is a great program for making maps. You can check out the results of some of my work with it at www.dfsi.net/cmonty There are two maps there right now, Karameikos and Threshold. I'll be putting more up later. Chris Montgomery 'cmonty' >I downloaded several cartographer files but I dont have the softwear >to open them. can somone tell me on which site it is on? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:12:46 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v5.4 (repost) At 13.47 07/10/98 -0400, SteelAngel wrote: >An another another note: > >I dunno if it is important, but Yalu bay on all the color Mystara maps in >the RC and HW is miscolored. It should be blue, since it is a patch of >ocean :) Same goes for an area near (or in) the Azcan Empire in the HW IIRC. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:25:39 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor At 13.29 10/10/98 -0400, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: >The shadow-elf caverns are HUGE -- bigger than virtually anything in the >AD&D worlds' Underdark, and FAR bigger and deeper than a "natural" cavern's >got any business being. We're talking about hundreds of square miles, not >just ten levels of conventional caverns; FR's Undermountain and similar >"huge" dungeons are tiny, by comparison. IMO the SE caves could reach up to the edges of the KW (remember that SE ring under Thyatis' Coliseum in DD1?), anyway I think that the main body of those caverns is the one described in Gaz13. Moreover, if you accept the depth given in PWA3, those aren't so deep: just 6000 ft IIRC. Last, don't forget that SE have powerful stone magic and it's not difficult for them to open new tunnels or enlarge the existing ones. >It'd make more sense, if they >were artificial remnants of Blackmoor's uranium mines ... plus, it'd >explain why the radiation-spawned soul crystals are distributed through the >whole network, rather than being concentrated in the Broken Lands or close >to the NoS. Over time, growth of underground rock formations would have >obscured their man-made origins. IMO the Soul Crystal are distributed only in the area described in Gaz13, i.e. under the Broken Lands and not far from the NoS. Otherwise SE would have already settled all the KW caves. > >Besides, it'd be a nice bit of irony: the same elves who've blamed >Blackmoor's humans for the GRoF for so long, might have been living in the >very mines from which the nukes' fissionable material was extracted! ;-) ...worshipping one of those human scientist who may have caused the GRoF... ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 22:53:54 +0200 From: Michele Vacchiano Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1998-10-09 19:06:58 Eastern Daylight Time, > michele.vacchiano@torino.ALPcom.it writes: > > > What about a campaign setting focused on the Holy Grail? D&d official > > modules only mention it in Master Dm Guide, listed among all the other > > artifacts. but I think it should deserve some more attention... > > I have a lot of great ideas on it. Is there someone who wants tho share > > them? > > That would be a tough item to introduce, especially by that name -- it is > too tightly associated with people and places that either actually exist > or are described in legends as existing in our real world. > > On the other hand, that cauldron of rebirth from Celtic legend would be a > great artifact to make use of in a campaign. > *************************************************************************** > I never heard of it... what is a cauldron of rebirth? - -- Michele *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 22:54:06 +0200 From: Michele Vacchiano Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1998-10-09 19:06:58 Eastern Daylight Time, > michele.vacchiano@torino.ALPcom.it writes: > > > What about a campaign setting focused on the Holy Grail? D&d official > > modules only mention it in Master Dm Guide, listed among all the other > > artifacts. but I think it should deserve some more attention... > > I have a lot of great ideas on it. Is there someone who wants tho share > > them? > > That would be a tough item to introduce, especially by that name -- it is > too tightly associated with people and places that either actually exist > or are described in legends as existing in our real world. > > On the other hand, that cauldron of rebirth from Celtic legend would be a > great artifact to make use of in a campaign. > *************************************************************************** > I never heard of it... what is a cauldron of rebirth? Giorgio *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 20:22:32 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Amber Succession In a message dated 1998-10-10 00:14:04 Eastern Daylight Time, jsmill@wans.net writes: > In regards to the question of why Catherine D'Ambreville did not succeed > Etienne upon his "death", I have just one comment to make: > > Maybe he took precautions to ensure she didn't succeed him on the throne. > > Think about it- Henri and Catherine both conspired against him for his > position (X2: Castle Amber). GAZ3 makes note that Etienne took precautions > against all of his relatives after Wishing them back to life- notably with > Geases. There is only one problem with this theory -- whatever precautions Etienne took against Catherine, he is likely to have taken against Henri as well -- but Henri was quite capable of claiming the throne. Actually, as I recall, the geas on all family members was meant to prevent them from taking actions to harm Etienne -- it would have had no effect on any struggle for succession after he is removed from the scene by somebody outside the family. I have another theory that I think provides a better explanation for some otherwise inexplicable succession situations in Glantri. Basically, in Glantri the genders are not equal. While the laws of Glantri make both genders equal in theory, in practice no female noble has any rights that are taken seriously unless she is championed by a non-clerical male of noble birth. A wife is expected to defer to her husband in all things unless she is a wizard and he is a mundaner, in which case the couple are regarded as equals. Sexist? Absolutely! But it does explain much of how things have been done in Glantri. As for succession, I would suggest that the actual laws would read as follows: 1) First choice is any qualified offspring (son, daughter, son-in-law, or daughter-in-law). To qualify, said offspring must be a wizard who has either graduated from the Great School of Magic or performed a significant service for Glantri -- and the latter qualification, prior to the accession of Kol, was generally considered as harder to meet than the graduation requirement. The law specifies no preference among qualified offspring, so the succession may be disputed unless the extra qualified heirs defer their claims in favor of the heir designated by custom or by the previous ruler. 2) If a Prince or Princess has no qualified children, then the spouses, siblings, and siblings-in-law have the next valid claim -- and once again there is nothing in Glantrian law that specifies which of the possible heirs is to be preferred. 3) If the first two rules provide no legal heir, then the ruling family is disinherited and a noble of the next lower rank may take over the domain. Here are a few examples of these rules in action: Case 1: When Prince Etienne disappeared, he left two sons -- neither one a wizard, and neither one married to a wizard. That left as possible heirs his wife Catherine, his brother Henri, and his sister-in-law Isidore. Catherine had no champion (since Henri had a valid claim in his own right and wanted to press it for himself) and so was out of the running, but Isidore was championed by her husband Richard, Etienne's brother. Thus the succession was disputed between Henri and Isidore. Case 2: An apparently confused passage in G:KoM mentions that Anton (a fighter and therefore ineligible to become a Glantrian Prince) gave up a claim to Bergdhoven to enable Juliana to become Princess. As only child of Prince Vanserie, Juliana would seem to have had clear claim to the throne. However, since she was female she needed a champion in order to assert her rights -- and Anton was that champion. I would assume that G:KoM was trying to describe this situation but that the description was slightly garbled . Case 3: When Prince Malachie disappeared, his only heir was his wife Diane. However, because her current lover was not of noble birth, she had no champion and thus could not claim her rights. If Malachie had not returned, Archduke John would have become Prince John of Morlay- Malinbois. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 20:22:33 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Glantri Questions In a message dated 1998-10-09 23:48:15 Eastern Daylight Time, jsmill@wans.net writes: > Anyway, back to my point. Recall that she is (both in the stories and, > though not explicitly noted as such, in canon) a powerful Chronomancer. > That being the case, I've always portrayed her marriage to Malachie as a > mere formality, for she will inevitably outlive him, and thus eventually > gain control of their Principality. I see a few problems with this theory: 1) As close associates with the d'Ambrevilles, I suspect that neither of them is likely to ever die of natural causes, so there is no reason to believe that she expects to outlive him. 2) If she is meant to inherit his principality, why did that silly succession struggle break out when Malachie disappeared? She should have succeeded him at that point. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:39:54 +0200 (METDST) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail > > > > On the other hand, that cauldron of rebirth from Celtic legend would be a > > great artifact to make use of in a campaign. > > *************************************************************************** > > > > I never heard of it... what is a cauldron of rebirth? > Here is what I know of it: 1)It is a cauldron, and it has the power of raising dead warrior to fight the next day. However, those "raised" people cannot speak. 2)It was used by the Irish in a war against Bran the Blessed, king of Britain. The british won the war only after Bran's brother sacrificed his life to destroy the cauldron. 3)I remember it also as the cauldron of the Dagda, one of the celtic gods. I'm not sure of the connections between the two legends. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #674 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, October 13 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 675 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Amber Succession Re: [MYSTARA] - Meeting of European MML members Re: [MYSTARA] - Mare and Maria.. not quite the same Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia against the Multiverse! Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Amber Succession Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Amber Succession ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 10:02:49 +0200 (METDST) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Amber Succession On Sun, 11 Oct 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > > I have another theory that I think provides a better explanation for some > otherwise inexplicable succession situations in Glantri. Basically, in > Glantri the genders are not equal. While the laws of Glantri make both > genders equal in theory, in practice no female noble has any rights that > are taken seriously unless she is championed by a non-clerical male of > noble birth. A wife is expected to defer to her husband in all things > unless she is a wizard and he is a mundaner, in which case the couple > are regarded as equals. Sexist? Absolutely! But it does explain much > of how things have been done in Glantri. > How do you explain then all those female ruling nobles? IMO, not all of them fit in your theory, most notably Rowena Krollnar, Natacha Datchenka and Margaret Hillsbury. AFAK, none of these is married (at least they weren't when they acquired their titles). For Margaret, she loves Prince Volospin, who don't seem to care much of her. So who championed her through all the ranks of nobility? In the end, I don't see Glantri as a sexist culture, as this would disrupt some of individuality of Krondahar: if every Glantrian is sexist, Prince Jherek is as prejudiced as any other. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 18:31:36 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Meeting of European MML members > > Do you remember my message a while ago about a possible meeting of European > MML members to be hold somewhere in Europe next summer? > Till now I got 9 positive answers, including a Greek-Canadian. > Since most of the people who answered live in or near France, I think that > Paris is the best place to hold the meeting. > As long as it takes place during summer, it is fine for me (it is a long time since I last went to Paris, and Mystara is an ideal exuse): train from Madrid to Paris is nice. Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 18:27:12 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mare and Maria.. not quite the same > On Sat, 3 Oct 1998 17:30:12 -0400 Sharon "Rotipher" Dornhoff wrote: > > < official term for a lunar "sea", even in English. :-)>> > > Sorry to contradict you here, Sharon, but "Mari" is the plural of "Mare".. > while Maria.. err.. well, it's a slang term for marjuana in Italian.. be > careful not to confuse the two 8p Seems to me like a language glide: MARIA is the plural of MARE in Latin, not Italian. Nothing strange in a world where everybody speaks a form or another of Common Thyatian! (excepting those of us who sport Alphatian as our native tongue) Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:34:53 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatia against the Multiverse! > >O.k., let's assume that the medicine in Alphatia is better than in Thyatis. >Slaves have a value for their owners, and it would be logical that an ill >slave >would be send to a doctor. Only if the treatment is less expensive than a new slave is... which may not be the case, depending on how exactly the Alphies go about getting their slaves. Cheerz Rob (If someone has already said this, I apologise. I have taken a week and a half away from the MML, and now I have 700 messages to read...) >An example: >If you live in USA, and your car is defect, you will get it repaired >in a workshop. If you are living in Russia, you don't have the money >and the workshop don't have replacement pieces, so the car remains >defect. > > > > > Jamuga Khan > > > >"Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 16:56:36 -0500 From: "Chris Montgomery" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail Actually........ Dagda's Cauldron was a cauldron called "The Undry", in which "everyone found food in proportion to his merits, and from which none went away unsatisfied." The "cauldron of Rebirth" that we're talking about here would actually be Bran's Cauldron. This cauldron had the quality of bringing the dead back to life if they were plunged into it. This cauldron was indeed used in a war between the British and the Irish until it was destroyed by a man named Evnissyen, who disguised as an Irishman, pretended to be dead until placed in the Cauldron. He then" stretched himself, and, with one desperate effort, burst both the Cauldron and his own heart. All quotes here are from Charles Squire's Celtic Myths and Legends. It is interesting that the subject went from the Holy Grail to Cauldrons, primarily because the author , Charles Squire, connects the legends of the Holy Grail with the Celtic legends of these cauldrons. There were several of them, each having unique powers, and it seems that, in the conversion of Celtic and Welsh myths to the Arthurian legends, many of these powers were attributed to the Grail. Just thought I'd mention it............ Chris Montgomery *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 18:46:37 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail In a message dated 1998-10-11 17:23:43 Eastern Daylight Time, michele.vacchiano@torino.ALPcom.it writes: > I never heard of it... what is a cauldron of rebirth? It is a cauldron into which dead bodies are thrown -- the following morning they are alive, but unable to speak. In D&D terms, it is unclear whether this artifact raises the dead or merely animates them -- the results suggest that those raised by it are something more than undead zombies but something less than the men they used to be. On second thought -- this artifact might be useful in the Hollow World (where mortal magic to raise the dead does not work), but its major power would be rather unimpressive in any situation other than a major war where the sheer numbers of the dead outstrip the ability of high level clerics to raise them. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 01:13:12 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail There are nice stories about the cauldron; it is associated with many Celtic deities: Bran puts dead warriors into it, so that they are raised, although deprived of the power of speech. If I am not too wrong, Lugh (the god of sun and excellence) drinks from it and gains many magical powers. I think that the Cauldron might be a very nice Artifact connected with the Radiance: something Glantrians would kill for, as well as any famished and afflicted land. I am just thinking of a possible scenario: 1) Cauldron featured in some remote Hinterland legends (perhaps the Raven tribe, "Bran" means "raven" in Gaelic, after all) 2) Eusebius is visited by the dead Thincol, who confers on him the quest of the item, a quest which he tried to command before his death, in order to relief himself (and Thyatis, although this is not canon) from the curse imposed by Vanya at the end of WotI. 3) Some Thyatians accept the challenge. 4) The Heldannics put some pieces together and, from their new settlements in Davania, start another quest party. 5) Schattenalfen spies get to know of the item and start sarching it, in order to find a counterweapon against the new radiance magic of the Shadowelves. 6) What nobody knows is that the cauldron was long ago removed from the Hinterlands: years ago, a younger Brannart McGregor quested for it and, through experimentation with it, got to know of the Radiance and was later admitted into the Order by Etienne d'Ambreville. The Cauldron works know as his phylactery and is well hidden in Glantrian wilderness, away from ambitious relatives. 7) Search parties make a run agaisnt each other in getting clues and send incognito missions in Glantri... they may succeed, but releasing the item from its many wards and contingencies would mean: the return of (a very angry) Brannart McGregor. Tis enough musing for 1.00 AM Any feedback? Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 00:49:48 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Amber Succession In a message dated 1998-10-12 04:33:04 Eastern Daylight Time, piu2014@ccrd200.cdc.polimi.it writes: > How do you explain then all those female ruling nobles? > IMO, not all of them fit in your theory, most notably Rowena Krollnar, > Natacha Datchenka and Margaret Hillsbury. No problem, really -- presumably each of them was "championed" by the Prince to whom she was allied. Alternatively, the rules that I suggested may be less strict when applied to nobles below the level of Prince/Princess. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 10:00:46 +0200 (METDST) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Amber Succession On Tue, 13 Oct 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > > IMO, not all of them fit in your theory, most notably Rowena Krollnar, > > Natacha Datchenka and Margaret Hillsbury. > > No problem, really -- presumably each of them was "championed" by the > Prince to whom she was allied. Alternatively, the rules that I suggested > may be less strict when applied to nobles below the level of Prince/Princess. I prefer the second choice, as it fits better for Natacha and Margaret. In fact, Morphail has few allies - he has undead servants only- and Volospin had no reason to sponsor Margaret (at least when she was only a Baroness). However, my point is mainly that glantrian attitude toward social class is that a mage is automatically higher class then a non-spellcaster, while sex, country of origin and even race do not count. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #675 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, October 14 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 676 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Ambreville query Re: [MYSTARA] - Mare and Maria.. not quite the same [MYSTARA] - The long question regarding Hattian-Kerendan-Thyatian tongues Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon History: maliability of. Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon History: maliability of. Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon History: maliability of. Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Amber Succession Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail Re: [MYSTARA] - Ambreville query [MYSTARA] - d'Ambreville Succession ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 15:38:35 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ambreville query Last week, I managed to buy GKoM and Mark of Amber (they are AD&D, but I find them an alternative to the impossible to find GAZ3 and X3 or 2?). Now I have a couple of questions for any Glantri expert: 1) Can a magic-user get initiated into two (or more) different Secret Crafts (EG Cryptomancy and Alchemy) or they are excluyent? 2) Has anybody at the Almanacs taken into account the events of MoA? What does Etienne do after coming back to the world? I mean as a mortal, in any case, I do not want to go over the issue Rad/Gareth again. Will he try to claim his position (or at least activity) at the Great School? Will he keep himself incognito? How then, after his public appearance before his family and some guests? Is MoA considered "non-canon" and disregarded in the making of the net-Almanacs? Waiting with curiosity, Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 17:44:38 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mare and Maria.. not quite the same Sharon Dornoff wrote: >DM wrote: >Sorry to contradict you here, Sharon, but "Mari" is the plural of "Mare".. >while Maria.. err.. well, it's a slang term for marjuana in Italian.. be >careful not to confuse the two 8p <> Latin? Who talked about Latin? To tell the truth we are both correct: what I was referring to is the Italian word for sea, which is Mare (pl. Mari). What you were talking about is obviously the Latin word Mare (pl. Maria). So, non-italian speakers obviously (uhmm, obviously? Not that obvious to me: why don't you use the term "lunar sea" instead of maria?) refer to lunar seas as maria, while italian astronomers call them "mari lunari" (if they ever called them "maria" I think there would be a sound laughter from the listeners..) ;) <> Oh yes, I guess they've got their own means of traveling to the moon and back .. :) <> But in this way how could you handle interstellar travels? They just take too much time to be worth trying. Also, with your method a trip to the moon takes more time than a trip around the world.. is it really so? I got the idea (from SJR and CoM) that voidspeed is increased in comparison to aerial speed inside the atmosphere and this is due to the absence of air attrite and gravity. My main concern with your "longest" timeframe is that if it really takes so much to reach the moon, then probably Mystarans will never reach other solar systems, or even Jupiter for that matter! And does the thing works the same with other aliens? <> If you're interested in detailing Mystaraspace, Sharon (and any of you out there), just e-mail me or Haavard Faanes (we're the responsibles for the Mystaraspace group). Your contribute is welcome! ;) PS: to anyone who cares, there will be no update of my site this month. Study is taking its toll, ya know.. :| DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 17:45:14 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - The long question regarding Hattian-Kerendan-Thyatian tongues Ethan asked: >I know the quote is there, however, I can't help but wonder why i was >under the impression that the thyatian tribes were offshoots of the >Milenians. And Geoff replied: <> BEEP! Wrong, try again, Geoff! ;) It was me and if you want to look a bit more closely at the topic, here's the complete text of my linguistics dissertation: "The Thyatian language seems to be either Latin (Anaxibius) or Italian (di Malapietra), which are obviously closely related tongues as both derive from the same base Latin language. Now, since the Hattians are part of the same group of peoples the Thyatians are from, it would seem logical that their three tongues be similar. Yet the Hattians seem to have a distinctly German-like language, much different from that of the Thyatians. So, how did the Hattians, who aren't separated (geographically speaking) from the other Thyatians, develop this language on their own? Indeed, this mystery is much simpler than it seems. Thyatians, Kerendans and Hattians were in their origins Antalian tribes that Nithians moved from the Heldann-Northern Reaches area to Davania in order to establish there new colonies. Unfortunately for them, the slaves revolted and drove off their masters, and then thrived in the forests and plains of Davania, becoming the ancestors of the Hinterlanders. Then, around 1,000 BC, the gnolls invaded Traldar and King Milen fled south to Davania, where after his death a great warleader founded the Empire of Milenia. The Milenians developed a new way of writing and a new tongue, resulted from the influence of the other Neathar and Oltec tribes with which they mingled, and thus the Milenian (Greek) tongue was born. The Milenians then conquered and enslaved the surrounding populations, influencing heavily their culture and language. At this time (600 BC ca.), the Kerendans, Thyatians and Hattians migrated northward to avoid the complete submission to Milenians, and arrived in modern day Thyatis. Thyatians and Kerendans had been strongly influenced by Milenian-Greek culture, and so they developed a new language and culture based 10% on their old Antalian ancestry and 80% on the Milenian culture, resulting in the Thyatian-Latin language and culture. Then, as the centuries passed, Kerendans developed their own language based on 2 distinct ethnic groups, the Kerendans (Italians, as Italian is the result of the mixture of Latin and Italic "vulgar" dialects) and the Ispans (Spanish, very much similar to Italian and Latin). What about the Hattians, then? Simply, they remained very attached to the old ways of the Antalians and their dialect and culture is a close reflection of this: it is not Antalian since it was influenced by Thyatian and Milenian, but it is very similar to it (the same difference between High German and Low German, or maybe between German and Danish). DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 17:45:52 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Nicholas Hudson wrote: << I am of the opinion that any information given about Blackmoor not in the DA series is suspect.>> You paranoic carbon-based lifeform.. ;) << Witness what the Immortals did to Nithia and the Carnivex; virtually all traces of either culture were completely destroyed (with the exception of the Nithians in Hollow World and Thothia).>> BEEP! BEEP! And what about the Blacklore Elves? Are they not representatives of Blackmoorian influenced cultures? First major flaw in your theory.. << The Blackmoor debacle seems, in many ways, to have been even more dangerous than the Carnivex "threat" (as seen from an Immortal perspective),>> I doubt this, since the Carnifex are all imprisoned in the Pits of Banishment while exponents of Blackmoor technological empire still live in the HW (although they are now using items powered by Immortal magics and not tech..). << and certainly more so than the Nithians. A major difference between Blackmoor and the other two is the issue of artifacts: the dangers of Nithia and Carnivex were magical, and spellbooks are easily lost or destroyed. The location where Blackmoor was, on the other hand, must be chock full of nifty little devices capable of killing entire planets (which would net the lucky adventurer more than a bit of experience).>> And could you tell me what kind of technical devices can resist an atomic explosion that has shifted the planet's axis? << It seems prudent and logical on the part of the Immortals to ensure that not even the true location of Blackmoor be known to modern civilizations, much more so than Nithia. So to, the actual cause of Blackmoor's destruction may vary from what is reported in modern sources, such as WotI.>> I side with Sharon's explanation for Blackmoor's destruction and the Beagle's incident.. for what is worth :) PS: Nick, I'm still waiting for your Oard writeup.. :p DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 12:25:10 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail Thanks for the info! A really great series that borrows heavily from Welsh mythology is The Prydain Cycle by Lloyd Alexander. It is written for young adults, yet is certainly on an adult level. I can't say enough how excellent this series is! Anyway, play on! At 04:56 PM 10/12/98 -0500, Chris Montgomery wrote: >Actually........ > Dagda's Cauldron was a cauldron called "The Undry", in which "everyone >found food in proportion to his merits, and from which none went away >unsatisfied." > The "cauldron of Rebirth" that we're talking about here would actually >be Bran's Cauldron. This cauldron had the quality of bringing the dead back >to life if they were plunged into it. This cauldron was indeed used in a >war between the British and the Irish until it was destroyed by a man named >Evnissyen, who disguised as an Irishman, pretended to be dead until placed >in the Cauldron. He then" stretched himself, and, with one desperate >effort, burst both the Cauldron and his own heart. > All quotes here are from Charles Squire's Celtic Myths and Legends. It >is interesting that the subject went from the Holy Grail to Cauldrons, >primarily because the author , Charles Squire, connects the legends of the >Holy Grail with the Celtic legends of these cauldrons. There were several >of them, each having unique powers, and it seems that, in the conversion of >Celtic and Welsh myths to the Arthurian legends, many of these powers were >attributed to the Grail. > >Just thought I'd mention it............ > >Chris Montgomery > > > > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 14:03:22 -0400 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon History: maliability of. >> I think it's an exercise in futility to try and reconcile >> EVERY scrap of history in the various "canon" products. Pick the history >> that works for your campaign, and run with it. >> James Ruhland wrote: > This is a good point. I for one tend to use the various canon histories >more as In Character histories, things that knowlegable Mystaran Historians >who strive for accuracy *believe* to be true (since some of 'em can use >magic to sift myth from reality, etc.), but which may not actually be >accurate. This is an excellent way to deal with campaign inconsistencies. I even went so far as to have two wizened sages individually adopt the published versions of Mystaran history as their own. Bensarion of Kevar (from X11) understands events as set forth in the DA series of modules and the Glantri gazetteer (a Brun-centric position). A sage on Skothar was known to present a different version of world history (in keeping with the seeming contradictions published in the Hollow World boxed set). > That can also be a tool to throw the players off track, if historical >knowlege becomes important for whatever reason. By now many, if not most, >players have just as good a grasp on all this stuff as the DM does, so IMO >it is a good idea to keep them off their toes. All the more reason for each of us to come up with our own version of world history! > Plus, this way, things can vary from one campaing to another, small >changes in the historical backround can keep the characters off balance, >and helps keep Mystara fresh, IMO. I use the "canon" backround as suggested >history, and make some (malevolent) twists at my whim. I tend to think of Mystara as a multiverse. Nobody on the MML (except of course Frank Mentzer and Bruce Heard) DMed or role-played a character on Mystara "prime". Each of our own campaigns represents a similar yet distinctly separate Mystara "n+1" (n being a function of the level of agreement between the published version and our personal campaign world). We understand this on a fundamental level when we say "IMC". A PC from my own campaign world may travel into a slightly modified Mystara if the player joined a different gaming group (a "reality shift" would occur, as outlined in the Master's DM book). This is why vociferous debates about canon are somewhat pointless (not that I'm casting the first stone, so to speak). We should simply consider Mystara a multi-layered campaign world rife with possibilities! Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 14:25:29 -0400 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail Giorgio wrote: >What about a campaign setting focused on the Holy Grail? D&d official >modules only mention it in Master Dm Guide, listed among all the other >artifacts. but I think it should deserve some more attention... >I have a lot of great ideas on it. Is there someone who wants tho share >them? Interesting - as I just finished reading "Mists of Avalon" by Marion Zimmer Bradley and watched "Excalibur" this weekend. I agree the Holy Grail seems tied to the RW. The only way I can think of to incorporate it is to take up the theory that Mystara is our own world in the distant past and to have adventurers travel forward in time to the cavern (the city of Petra in Jordan) featured in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 14:08:33 -0400 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions - -----Original Message----- From: Lee Theisen To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM Date: Sunday, October 11, 1998 1:44 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions >At 08:09 PM 10/10/98 -0400, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > >>BTW, Andrew, since you say know know Glantri inside and out, might Dame >>Diane have been Laterren too? I've read most of CAS's stories and didn't >>think she was there, but I could've missed her. If so, it would give her >>and Malachie something in common besides Alchemy, and perhaps explain why >>she married him instead of one of the "locals", when she decided she'd had >>it with ruling. Lee Theisen wrote: >But yes, Diane de Moriamis is Laterran. Her character, known only as >Moriamis, appears in the short story "The Holiness of Azedarc", as a >druidic/sorceress type of figure that lives in the past of Averoigne, and >encounters a young priest who was sent back in time by the evil Bishop >Azedarc in order that he not reach Ylourgne to report on Azedarc's >sorcerous practices. Although I always got the impression that she was quite the temptress in the CAS story! (Not so in Glantri after losing her hair and putting on all that weight!) By the way, I wonder what ever happened to that young priest? Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 12:01:18 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor >DM beeped: > BEEP! BEEP! And what about the Blacklore Elves? >Are they not representatives of Blackmoorian >influenced cultures? First major flaw in your theory.. No, not on that evidence anyway. The Blacklore were influenced by the Blackmoorians. We can make inferences about Blackmoor on this basis, but to say that the Blacklore are representative of Blackmoorian culture because they borrowed from their culture would be like saying that the later Celts were representative of Roman civilization. Jenn valerya@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ "The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so much as to make settled things strange." (GK Chesterton) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 13:59:10 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon History: maliability of. > in the Master's DM book). This is why vociferous debates about canon are > somewhat pointless (not that I'm casting the first stone, so to speak). We > should simply consider Mystara a multi-layered campaign world rife with > possibilities! > Pointless, but fun, and sometimes even informative and interesting. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 15:12:11 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor On Tue, 13 Oct 1998, Jennifer Favia wrote: > be like saying that the later Celts were representative of Roman > civilization. Not quite. The Blacklore elves' ancestors existed at the same time as the Blackmoorians. And their cultures thrived co-dependantly. It would be more like saying that colonial US was representative of England. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:32:31 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri questions >It's Aleksei, actually :) Oops! My mistake. Sorry, guys. :-l >Well, from Diane's description in MoA: >She came from Old Averoigne, but she lived there centuries before even >Camille (Etienne's mother) was born. She created a potion of time travel >which she uses to literally have a joyride through time :) She also uses >youth potions liberally, which means her true age is very hard to >determine. In any case, she probably wasn't on Laterre at the time when >Etienne & co. were there - she traveled to the time when the Ambrevilles >already went to Mystara, and used the gate to join them. Aaaah, that's who she was! I remember the CAS story, now ... I just hadn't made the connection. They only use her last name in the story, and I'd been thinking the Glantrian "Dame Diane" could've been named for Malinbois-the-region, not vice versa. >I'm guessing that she never met Malachie before settling in Glantri. I >don't know who are the "locals" you are referring to; Malinbois and Morlay >are close to each other, and Malinbois has a lycanthropic population, so >that's why Malachie courted Diane in the first place. She probably saw it >as a good way to dump her fief on him, so she agreed. By "locals", I meant that she'd want to marry another mage from Averoigne, as opposed to a Flaem or other native-born Mystaran. Flaems aren't the only Glantrians who have cultural biases and preferences, after all ... and, werewolf or not, Malachie'd still be able to share her feelings and reminisences regarding "the old country". :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:12:52 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail > Interesting - as I just finished reading "Mists of Avalon" by Marion >Zimmer Bradley and watched "Excalibur" this weekend. Great book. I take this to mean that you'll have ideas for the rest of the relics as well coming soon :-) (In the book it was what--I haven't read it in years--the grail, the sword, and wasn't the third part a torc or something like that?) > > I agree the Holy Grail seems tied to the RW. The only way I can think >of to incorporate it is to take up the theory that Mystara is our own world >in the distant past and to have adventurers travel forward in time to the >cavern (the city of Petra in Jordan) featured in Indiana Jones and the Last >Crusade. I don't think I like that idea. That gives far too much of a reason to introduce RW stuff into Mystara--corruption, IMHO. However, couldn't the grail be from the world of the Averoignians/Kaels/Fens, as it's an alternate earth? That would give a link to Mystara (via the settlers) without bringing earth into play. Jenn valerya@hotmail.com Valerya@webtv.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ "The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so much as to make settled things strange." (GK Chesterton) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:16:24 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Canon History: maliability of. Jim Sahlas wrote: > I tend to think of Mystara as a multiverse. Nobody on the MML (except >of course Frank Mentzer and Bruce Heard) DMed or role-played a character on >Mystara "prime". Each of our own campaigns represents a similar yet >distinctly separate Mystara "n+1" (n being a function of the level of >agreement between the published version and our personal campaign world). >We understand this on a fundamental level when we say "IMC". A PC from my >own campaign world may travel into a slightly modified Mystara if the player >joined a different gaming group (a "reality shift" would occur, as outlined >in the Master's DM book). This is why vociferous debates about canon are >somewhat pointless (not that I'm casting the first stone, so to speak). We >should simply consider Mystara a multi-layered campaign world rife with >possibilities! Well said!!! Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:28:50 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Ethan wrote: >Not quite. > >The Blacklore elves' ancestors existed at the same time as the >Blackmoorians. And their cultures thrived co-dependantly. Actually, the Celts and the Romans did exist at the same time. The Romans first contacted them during Julius Caesar's Gaul campaign. They later conquered them (at least the southern tribes) and "Romanized" many of them, particularly those around Roman settlements (Bath, Londinium, etc.). I was using those Romanized Celts as the Blacklore in relation to the Romans as Blackmoor. Mind you--this is a cultural comparison ONLY (and I'm not picking on the Romans of the Celts, it was just the first example that sprung to mind), so please everyone don't send me sheaves of mail telling me how Blackmoor never conquered Evergrun, etc....Yes, the colonial US and England are another example along these lines. But perhaps, since the elves had a mainly commercial/economic relationship with Blackmoor (or so I infer), the best example would be that US companies sell their goods and services to people in other countries (McDonald's in Russia, etc.), yet those countries have their own culture, language, etc., and can in no way stand as an example of American culture. Jenn valerya@hotmail.com Valerya@webtv.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ "The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so much as to make settled things strange." (GK Chesterton) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:59:29 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Amber Succession In a message dated 1998-10-13 06:23:43 Eastern Daylight Time, piu2014@ccrd200.cdc.polimi.it writes: > However, my point is mainly that glantrian attitude toward social class is > that a mage is automatically higher class then a non-spellcaster, while > sex, country of origin and even race do not count. But if gender does not count, then that leaves open he question of why certain female nobles never claimed the power to which they were entitled. In particular, why did tha succession struggle described in one of the PWAs break out when Prince Malachie was missing and presumed dead? Even if she did not really want the title Dame Diane de Moriamis was the obvious choice as Prince Malachie's heir. Why was she not confirmed as his successor, thereby preventing that whole series of struggles for the lesser positions? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:59:33 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail In a message dated 1998-10-13 15:23:16 Eastern Daylight Time, dsahla@po- box.mcgill.ca writes: > I agree the Holy Grail seems tied to the RW. The only way I can think > of to incorporate it is to take up the theory that Mystara is our own world > in the distant past and to have adventurers travel forward in time to the > cavern (the city of Petra in Jordan) featured in Indiana Jones and the Last > Crusade. Another possibility would be to make the Holy Grail an artifact of Laterre, which appears to be a magical variant of our own world -- although in that case it would clearly have to gain its power from Someone superior to the Immortals. Or again -- use interdimensional travel as was done by Elric in _Stormbringer_ to obtain the horn of Roland. In either case, removing the Grail from the game could be accomplished at any time without difficulty -- the Higher Power that empowers it decides where it goes, and no mortal or Immortal magic should be able to overrule that decision in any way. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:59:30 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ambreville query In a message dated 1998-10-13 10:25:13 Eastern Daylight Time, anpro@accesocero.es writes: > 1) Can a magic-user get initiated into two (or more) different Secret > Crafts (EG Cryptomancy and Alchemy) or they are excluyent? Since there is no description of anyone becoming a member of more than one Secret Craft, I would have to conclude that the different Secret Crafts are mutually exclusive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 01:56:33 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - d'Ambreville Succession Now that I have had the chance to review Gaz 3, I realize just how much of the material that I thought was present there was actually my own extrapolations that were used in my own campaign, back when Gaz 3 was all that was written about Glantri. However, a few intriguing notes are to be found in that work: p. 16: "Awarding Higher Nobility Titles: The most common way of obtaining a higher title is when a noble dies without a wizard heir. In this case, his family is dispossessed and nobles with the next closest title compete to take over the "vacant" dominion. For example, the Archduke of Westheath passes on. The Duke of Hightower and the Duchess of Fenswick both compete for the title. If only one gets sufficient votes to qualify for the title, either from the Council or Parliament, then both must duel at the Dueling Court -- a method of decision which is most pleasing to the population. The winner is awarded both title and dominion." A couple of notes on the preceding: It is not clear how distant a relative of a noble can survive and be counted as his or her heir. If the ruling is that the heir must be a spouse or offspring of the previous ruler, then the succession problem for Krondahar becomes obvious -- if his wizard wife outlives him, then she becomes heir, but since she is childless she would herself have no legal heir. On the other hand, if any known relative can inherit, then some Principalities such as Aalban become a bit too secure. Second note: I would also assume that the dueling rules assume that both nobles want the next higher title and one is not obviously overmatched by the other. Presumably there is nothing to stop one noble from backing down and yielding in favor of the other before any duel is fought. Another citation is the source of my previous belief that the wizard spouse of a noble was that noble's equal and co-ruler: "When two ruling nobles marry in Glantri, they lose the dominion farther from the capital.... No decisions in the couple's dominion can be made without both nobles' consent. If the two perish without naming an heir, or an heir cannot be agreed, the Council of Princes and Parliament recognize the oldest wizardly descendant in the family as heir." What I failed to recognize in the above is that an heir who inherits his title from his parents does not share his or her authority with his spouse, even if said spouse is a wizard. Presumably the d'Ambreville succession became a problem because it was not clear whether Henri or Isidore was the elder of the two -- but it is still not clear why Catherine and Diane were ignored when succession issues came up. My current theory is that Catherine remained in Thyatis and thus ignored the entire succession dispute -- whereas the "Awards Festival" described in a PWA as happening after Malachie's disappearance was merely discussed and never really happened - -- Diane must also have been unavailalable at the time, leading to speculation that she too was dead, since if she was available she would have been the obvious heir. However, unless special arrangements were made in the Act of Enfiefment that established the Principality of Morlay-Malinbois, it seems clear that Malachie and Diane would have been named co-rulers of their Principality. At this point I can see no reason that anyone would have made such special arrangements. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #676 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, October 15 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 677 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Re: Secret crafts (Was: Amb...) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Secret crafts (Was: Amb...) Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Amber Succession Re: [MYSTARA] - Ambreville query [MYSTARA] - Ambreville query ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:11:55 +0200 (EET DST) From: Anias Pasi Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Secret crafts (Was: Amb...) Andres wrote: > Last week, I managed to buy GKoM and Mark of Amber (they are AD&D, but I > find them an alternative to the impossible to find GAZ3 and X3 or 2?). Now > I have a couple of questions for any Glantri expert: I wouldn't _dare_ claim myself an expert, but here goes... > 1) Can a magic-user get initiated into two (or more) different Secret > Crafts (EG Cryptomancy and Alchemy) or they are excluyent? There seams to be no real limit to this in the canon. So in theory yes. However, in my games I have followed the following ideas: 1. To get into the _Secret_ craft, one has to either ask to be able to join (wery hard, as most dont know anyone from any secret craft, rather this means, that the mage knows someone to be good in something, and ask to be teached the staff...) and be accepted, or then be seen to be a good candidate to the group (by the Masters) and be asked to join. Either way, the candidate must be seen as suitable to the group. That means, he's interested in the subject, has maybe shown some tendencies, or is racially suitable (flaem to fire elementalist etc). Also the candidate must be trusworthy enough to be given the secrets. And lastly, the group wants to somehow benefit from the new group (Besides adding to the gang), so it helps to be rich, powerful etc, but it harms if You are known to have powerful enemies, bad reputation etc. Finally if You get into the craft, the masters will probably keep an eye into your doings for a while. 2. If You get into the group, the studies will propably change You in some ways. Say, You used to be interested on dragons, hunting them, their history and anatomy, and their treasures. You knew that Prince Drachenfels has killed some dragons and was quite popular for it, so you asked his highness to teach You some of his methods in exchange to Your services. Well, Drachenfels sees You as a good candidate and takes You into the Dragologists (probably names someone else to teach you). They teach you new things you couldnt even imagine. How to protect Yourself from dragons, how to kill them. A few words of their language, the way to change Yourself into one. You really get into the dragon business. You get into a hunting party, with some other dragologist, Wow what a rush. You get to the dragons hoard. A little by little Your personality changes, and in all your magics and battles you start to prefer dragonlike things. You collect dragon paintings. etc. in some cases the magics You study may change you (dragologist, witch...) a bit, but basicly this is a RW psycholocical thing. 3. After the changes are added to Your allready biases personality, it is wery unlikely that you would be accepted to any other craft, even if You for some reason wanted to. And thats not too likely either, because there is allways more to study about dragons. Also, there are the oaths You will propably have to give when you get into a group. I dont think that you can seriously give an oath to two similar croups and keep them both (I will allways keep these things secret... I will allways let my master know about any secret going's i see...). And the fate You will have if the masters will find out that You betrayed them is not a nice one... So IMHO It is possible that a mage gets into two different crafts, but it is not likely, nor is his/her survival afterwards. Pasi - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 8-10 G 62 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:06:03 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Secret crafts (Was: Amb...) >> 1) Can a magic-user get initiated into two (or more) different Secret >> Crafts (EG Cryptomancy and Alchemy) or they are excluyent? > >There seams to be no real limit to this in the canon. So in theory yes. > Sorry to disagree with you here but IIrc you can`t as you are marked as one of the chosen by each craft, and the last thing that they want is those from another craft to steal their secrets. I suppose that it might be possible under the most unusual circumstances, but I do seem to recall that it`s actually `canon` somewhere that you cant. Although if you want it to hapen in your campaign the entire subject becomes irrelevant, as your game your rules is the only way to work. Hamlet 1,v,166 Paul ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 18:27:57 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Amber Succession >In particular, why did tha succession struggle described in one of the >PWAs break out when Prince Malachie was missing and presumed dead? >Even if she did not really want the title Dame Diane de Moriamis was the >obvious choice as Prince Malachie's heir. Why was she not confirmed >as his successor, thereby preventing that whole series of struggles for >the lesser positions? The obvious answer is, of course, that the writers of the Almanac forgot about her. However, if we attempt to explain it, two answers come to mind: 1.Diane didn't want to inherit the Principality at all. 2.Diane was away on one of her time-travels, and thus was unavailable to claim her inheritance (my preferred answer). ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:48:13 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ambreville query At 15.38 13/10/98 +0200, Andrés Piquer Otero wrote: > >2) Has anybody at the Almanacs taken into account the events of MoA? What >does Etienne do after coming back to the world? I mean as a mortal, in any >case, I do not want to go over the issue Rad/Gareth again. Will he try to >claim his position (or at least activity) at the Great School? Will he keep >himself incognito? How then, after his public appearance before his family >and some guests? Is MoA considered "non-canon" and disregarded in the >making of the net-Almanacs? > In the Net-Almanac we considered MoA as "canon" and had Etienne keep himself incognito for the time going. Anyway I'm not the one in charge of Glantri, so I've no idea what the Glantri guys are preparing for the next Almanac :-) ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:11:08 +0200 (METDST) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ambreville query On Tue, 13 Oct 1998 15:38:35 +0200, Adres P. Otero wrote: <> Oh my gosh.. I'm having another ulcer attack.. << and Mark of Amber (they are AD&D, but I find them an alternative to the impossible to find GAZ3 and X3 or 2?). Now I have a couple of questions for any Glantri expert: 1) Can a magic-user get initiated into two (or more) different Secret Crafts (EG Cryptomancy and Alchemy) or they are excluyent?>> Already answered, but I'll add my "no" to the list. It's like studying to become an expert in two wizard schools which are opposed: you cannot, because once you're taught the secrets of one circle you become bound to that circle and also you'll believe that circle will give you full power. Why bother learning others? Only if you quit one you can enter another, although I doubt anyone would want somebody who has just denied his old master.. <<2) Has anybody at the Almanacs taken into account the events of MoA? What does Etienne do after coming back to the world? I mean as a mortal, in any case, I do not want to go over the issue Rad/Gareth again. Will he try to claim his position (or at least activity) at the Great School? Will he keep himself incognito? How then, after his public appearance before his family and some guests? Is MoA considered "non-canon" and disregarded in the making of the net-Almanacs?>> MoA is considered canon by the Net almanac team and I can assure you we've already taken steps to prepare Etienne's great comeback (there are a few scattered hints in this year's almanac as well..). Just be patient and you'll see how things evolve: we've considered what has been written in MoA, don't worry ;) [I cannot talk more or the other Elders will cast a feeblemind on me.. and since I've got an exam in a week I'd better conserve my intelligence.. 8=)) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #677 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, October 16 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 678 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Amber Succession [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians Re(2): [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians [MYSTARA] - D&D Sale Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor [MYSTARA] - [IP] Atzanteotl Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:11:33 +0200 (METDST) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor On Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:28:50 PDT, Jennifer Favia wrote: <> But.. Blackmoor never conquered Evergrun... ;p <> I think you haven't really grasped the extent of the Blackmoorian influence on the Evergrun elves. It was not just a question of commercial ties, mind you: a severe fracture erupted among the elves because there were those who followed the Blackmoorian "fell magics" and the others who wanted to return to the Way of the Forest. This means that many elves had been "brainwashed" by the Blackmoorians and even taught in the arts of technology (the fact that even today the Blacklore know how to use and build technological items testifies it -even though they don't know that their tech has been magically altered and is powered by Immortal magics). So, returning to the point that raised this discussion (I noted it's very frequent to loose the thread in this list), the Blacklore are an effective offshot of the Blackmoorian culture because they shared that same culture and technology, and the fact that the Immortals let them live on testifies that the Carnifex' threat was much greater than the Blackmoorian tech. All this IMHO, of course.. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:35:33 +0200 (METDST) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail Giorgio wrote: >What about a campaign setting focused on the Holy Grail? D&d official >modules only mention it in Master Dm Guide, listed among all the other >artifacts. but I think it should deserve some more attention... IIRC, the DDA3 module Eye of Traldar COULD be considered the Karameikan version of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade... Note however that I don't have the module YET, so I'm judging from others' reviews of that adventure.. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 13:54:49 +0200 (METDST) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Amber Succession On Wed, 14 Oct 1998 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > Even if she did not really want the title Dame Diane de Moriamis was the > obvious choice as Prince Malachie's heir. Why was she not confirmed > as his successor, thereby preventing that whole series of struggles for > the lesser positions? Averoignan ruling houses have a lot of enemies, who have strong interest in lessening their power. Other would have seen the vacant place as an opportunity to increase their power. IMO, glantrian laws apply as long as those who benefit of it are stronger then those who don't. Probably, Diane's case whose the latter. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 14:32:01 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians I have to agree with Jamunga that Mystaran Nazis doesn't feel right. In fact I think the whole idea is a bit silly. On the other hand, having a culture of Roman(or Byzantine, not getting into that) warriors, mixed with some Prussian cultureal traits could be really interesting. Does anyone have any other ideas on this? This list has been really quiet lately, are everyone reading for exams or something? Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 07:36:15 PDT From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians >I have to agree with Jamunga that Mystaran Nazis doesn't feel right. In >fact I think the whole idea is a bit silly. On the other hand, having a >culture of Roman(or Byzantine, not getting into that) warriors, mixed with >some Prussian cultureal traits could be really interesting. Does anyone >have any other ideas on this? I agree with you on both points. Personally, I find the idea of Mystaran Nazis wholly inappropriate. First of all, it feels too much like German-bashing. Second, it's a fantasy world, full of wonder and magic, etc.--can't we find more original bad guys? As far as how to treat the Hattians, I like your idea. I't know much about German history, but perhaps someone could tell us a little about the H.R.E. in the middle ages? >This list has been really quiet lately, are everyone reading for exams or >something? Yep...But I'm done for now...It's just that my brain is totally fried...;-) >"Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr >Garrison, South Park. :-)..."You will respect my authority!" --Cartman Jenn valerya@hotmail.com Valerya@webtv.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ "The function of fantasy is not to make strange things settled, so much as to make settled things strange." (GK Chesterton) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:38:47 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > This list has been really quiet lately, are everyone reading for exams or > something? I have finals here. %) That's why I'ma a bit stressed. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:57:13 +0200 (METDST) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > I have to agree with Jamunga that Mystaran Nazis doesn't feel right. In > fact I think the whole idea is a bit silly. I agree. Also, for what concerns Heldannic Knights, they are already too "modern" for me, with magic which mimics technology (warbirds). IMO, should they become MNazis, the effect of "modern nation disguised as middle-age" would disrupt the atmosfear of the game. Let them remain MTeutonic Knights. > On the other hand, having a > culture of Roman(or Byzantine, not getting into that) warriors, mixed with > some Prussian cultureal traits could be really interesting. Does anyone > have any other ideas on this? Unluckily, I have no answers, only another question. How did Hattians manage to keep cultural identity after 1000 years of thyatian empire, and a lot of emigration (which probably involved the less thyatian-loving Hattians)? > This list has been really quiet lately, are everyone reading for exams or > something? Yes, we were studying for an exam in glantrian law :) Giampaolo Agosta (In RW studying for an exam in robotics) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 09:09:15 -0700 From: harold@grid.wizards.com (Harold Johnson) Subject: Re(2): [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians I'm on deadline for a DRAGONLANCE project, and have been only reading the letters and not commenting much. Harold *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:49:40 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians > > Unluckily, I have no answers, only another question. > How did Hattians manage to keep cultural identity after 1000 years of > thyatian empire, and a lot of emigration (which probably involved the less > thyatian-loving Hattians)? > Yes, well, I personally would make the Hattians more Thyatic, and have Heldann et all be "MGermany", with a feudal structure. I.E. currently with a "Teutonic Knights" ruling class (from Thyatis, but assimilating into the Heldannic society). Previous "Freeholds" life would have thus been somewhat similar to the loose, semi-feudal, semi-tribal structure of, say, the Ostrogoths & Visigoths et al. Probably eventually what IMO would/should emerge is something roughly analogous to the Midieval German Empire in the areas of Heldann, Landfall, and perhaps Oceansend, with the HK Order subsiding into your "standard" feudal structure, and the "Grand Master" of the order becoming the area's King or Kaisar. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 13:08:06 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > Probably eventually what IMO would/should emerge is something roughly > analogous to the Midieval German Empire in the areas of Heldann, Landfall, Yeah. I can see the HK's being the MHoly Roman Empire. Mostly because of the religious fanaticism to Vanya (slowly becoming my least favorite immortal). Right about now, however, the HK's need a kick in the pants. It may be because I don't like them, though. They were fine enemies in the PA series, but integrating them into Mystara only made them seem far too powerful. (especially with those warbirds!!! who thought those up? Oh.. hi Bruce! :) Ethan - just waiting for the divergans to pummel the HK's in Polisaktes (sp?) - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 13:27:14 EDT From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians In a message dated 98-10-15 12:41:59 EDT, you write: << Let them remain MTeutonic Knights. >> They can also be an opportunity for DM's to throw in lore about other Knightly orders. They're widespread influence and bad rep. with many Brun governments can lead to a sort of Knights Templar situation (where they are "a nation within each nation" where their compounds and temples are conscerned, they help travellers {for a price} and get involved in international commerce, banking, and trade) in which they become a thorn in the side of the local ruler of your players campaign. This could lead to efforts to stamp them out (a la RW France) and the disappearance of the fable "Hattian Lion" and gem encrusted artifact, disguised in a dark enamel, known as "The Black Cat". Adventures could help Samm of the Spade find out who killed his friend Miles the Archer in the fog covered streets of . . . you get the idea. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 13:33:40 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: [MYSTARA] - D&D Sale Hey, folks! Due to severe shortage of shelf space and no longer needing or using the items below, I've decided to sell most of my basic D&D materials that I've collected over the years. Prices are US currency and shipping is not included. Please don't respond to this on the mailing list. You can reach me at galwylin@airnet.net. Unless noted, all items are near mint. It will be on a first come, first serve basis but I will keep copies in case first bows out. Questions on payment will be handled in private. Thanks. 1011 D&D Set 1: Basic Rules $10.00 1011 D&D Set 1: Basic Rules (rulebooks only) $5.00 1012 D&D Set 2: Expert Rules (no adventure) $10.00 1013 D&D Set 3: Companion Rules (worn) $10.00 1021 D&D Set 4: Master Rules $10.00 1017 D&D Set 5: Immortals Rules $15.00 9145 AC3 The Revenge of Rusak $5.00 9357 Thunder Rift $5.00 9437 DMR1 Dungeon Master Screen $5.00 9438 DMR2 Creature Catalog $10.00 9023 B1 In Search of the Unknown (pastel) $10.00 9034 B2 The Keep of the Borderlands $5.00 9044 B3 Palace of the Silver Princess $5.00 9049 B4 The Lost City (wear) $5.00 9086 B6 The Veiled Society $5.00 9115 B7 Rahasi $10.00 9149 B10 Night's Dark Terror $15.00 9260 B11 King's Festival $5.00 9261 B12 Queen's Harvest $5.00 9067 M1 Blizzard Pass (wear) $5.00 9097 BSOLO Ghost of Lion Castle $5.00 9284 DDA1 Arena of Thyatis $5.00 9296 DDA2 Legions of Thyatis $5.00 9271 DDA3 Eye of Traldar $5.00 9272 DDA4 The Dymrak Dread $5.00 9387 Sword and Shield (no cardboard figures) $5.00 9043 X1 The Isle of Dread $5.00 9051 X2 Castle Amber $5.00 9056 X3 Curse of Xanathon $5.00 9068 X4 Master of the Desert Nomads $5.00 9069 X5 Temple of Death (wear) $5.00 9081 X6 Quagmire! $5.00 9079 X7 The War Rafts of Kron $5.00 9127 X8 Drums of Fire Mountain $5.00 9129 X9 The Savage Coast $5.00 9165 X11 Saga of the Shadow Lord $5.00 9188 X12 Skarda's Mirror (wear) $5.00 9218 X13 Crown of Ancient Glory $5.00 9082 XSOLO Lathan's Gold $5.00 9050 O1 The Gem and the Staff $5.00 9118 CM2 Death's Ride $5.00 9128 CM4 Earthshaker! (wear) $5.00 9166 CM7 The Tree of Life $5.00 9159 M1 Into the Maelstrom $5.00 9171 IM1 The Immortal Storm $5.00 This has been a Galwylin® Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 19:33:15 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor At 11.11 15/10/98 +0200, DM wrote: >the Blacklore are an effective >offshot of the Blackmoorian culture because they shared that same culture >and technology, and the fact that the Immortals let them live on testifies >that the Carnifex' threat was much greater than the Blackmoorian tech. All >this IMHO, of course.. Or maybe the Immortals' changed their way of judging over the centuries. There're plenty of examples in RW history, where dangerous threats were let alive until it was too late, while less dangerous ones were readily and brutally eliminated at start... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 23:45:45 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Atzanteotl No, I haven't forgotten this... just been busy. Atzanteotl (Lord of Corruption, the Feathered Serpent) Greater Power of Baator, LE/Hierarch of Entropy, C PORTFOLIO: Corruption, betrayal, rotting ALIASES: Menlil (Nimmur), Acchanital (Sind), Sobk (Nithia) DOMAIN: Baator/Minauros/Tlalxicco DATE OF ASCENSION: 1500 BC SPONSOR: Thanatos ALLIES: Danel, Hel FOES: Ilsundal, Ixion, Ka, Karaash, Rafiel, Djaea, Halav, Atruaghin, Ahmanni, Hattani, Mahmatti, Tahkati SYMBOL: The silhouette of a feathered serpent WAL: Any non-good Atzanteotl was once an elven king Atziann, the only survivor of his clan after the Broken Lands explosion in 1700 BC. Atziann fled through Mystara's core, eventually emerging in 1650 BC in the Azcan lands of the Hollow World. He learned the Azcan ways in disguise until 1500 BC, when he achieved Immortality and took the name Atzanteotl. Soon after, he corrupted most Azcans and many shadow elves to follow his teachings. The Church CLERGY: Priests CAL: LE, NE, CE WEAPONS: Any piercing ARMOR: Any MAJOR SPHERES: All, Astral, Charm, Combat, Guardian, Summoning, War MINOR SPHERES: Divination, Law, Necromantic (reverse only), Wards GRANTED POWERS: Command Undead, Cause Light Wounds 1/day, immune to all forms of alignment or personality detection and ESP. BONUS PROFS: Persuasion DOGMA: Atzanteotl's doctrine is to corrupt people and even whole nations to the cause of evil. He delights in secretly advancing his corruption, then springing it upon his enemies as a great surprise. He thinks nothing of abandoning those whom he corrupted to their fate, but often takes them as his own worshippers if they prove interesting or important enough. Atzanteotl also oversees the process of physical rotting, but it interests him much less. DAY-TO-DAY ACTIVITIES: Atzanteotl's priests are called Corruptors. They worm their way in as advisors to powerful or important figures, or as companions to famous good heroes. Of course, their advice is ultimately targeted to corrupt these people and destroy their reputation. Corruptors are pretty good at it, too - their granted powers of non-detection and personal skill in formulating advice (e.g. failing to mention possible bad consequences) make it very difficult to detect anything until it's too late. IMPORTANT CEREMONIES/HOLY DAYS: Thaumont 11 is the day when Atziann reached the Hollow World after a long and hard track underground. In Azca and Schattenalfheim it is called the Serpentsun. It is also celebrated in Nimmur as the day when the manscorpions were led out of the caverns into the Land Above; there it is called Light of Menlil. MAJOR CENTERS OF WORSHIP: Atzanteotl is worshipped in several cultures, most of which he has corrupted and stolen from other Immortals. His major follower bases in the outer world include the manscorpions of Nimmur and the Tiger Clan. He has also swayed some Broken Lands humanoids and shadow elves to his worship, while the Sindhi have heard of him as Acchanital. In the Hollow World, Atzanteotl is the sole Immortal of Azcan Empire and Schattenalfheim; he is also known in Nithia as Sobk, lord of crocodiles. AFFILIATED ORDERS: The Tiger Claws is a force of elite warriors of Tiger Clan who are all fanatics of Atzanteotl. They are notorious for their bloodlust and battle rages (in game terms, use the Berserker kit). There are also warrior orders dedicated to Atzanteotl in the Azcan Empire. PRIESTLY VESTMENTS: Priests of Atzanteotl use elaborate garments made of colorful feathers. They wear similarly made headgear, often with a sneering mask attached. ADVENTURING GARB: Adventuring priests of Atzanteotl wear the normal clothes of their home culture, if appropriate. Atzan Spells Corrupting Touch (Alteration) Level: 3 Sphere: Charm Range: Touch Components: V, S, M Duration: Permanent Casting Time: 6 Area of Effect: 10 cu.ft./level of nonmagical matter Saving Throw: Neg. After casting this spell, a priest can corrupt any matter, which then becomes deficient in some way. Magical matter and living creatures are not affected. The affected matter will become physically corrupted in some way - food becomes rotten, water becomes disease-ridden, plants become withered, stones become fragile and prone to crumble, etc. The matter receives a savig throw vs. disintegration with a +3 bonus to avoid the effect. The material component is a crumb of stale bread. Shadow of a Doubt (Enchantment/Charm) Level: 4 Sphere: Charm Range: 30' Components: V Duration: Special Casting Time: 7 Area of Effect: 1 person Saving Throw: Neg. This subtle but nefarious spell causes its target to begin slightly doubting his or her beliefs and convictions. For example, a priest may begin to doubt his religion, a soldier may question the orders of his commander, etc. The spell does not cause the affected person to abandon his beliefs right away - instead it works over time, slowly insinuating itself into the target's mind. The target initially receives a saving throw to avoid the effect (Wisdom bonus applies). If this is failed, the doubting thoughts start to appear. When the target is next faced with a direct appeal to his beliefs (an order from a commander, etc.), he is allowed a new saving throw, with a -1 penalty for every day he has had time to develop the doubts since the casting of the spell. Thus, a soldier who had this spell cast on him, then had 2 days to himself before being given a direct order from his commander, will have a -2 penalty to his roll. If this new saving throw succeeds, the spell is broken. If! it fails, the person will act contrary to his beliefs (though not necessarily in an obvious way; for example a soldier may appear to obey the order but will secretly disrupt it). Every such failure will bring an additional -1 penalty to future saving throws. Finally, after three such failures, the target abandons his beliefs completely. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:22:19 +0200 (METDST) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, James Ruhland wrote: > Yes, well, I personally would make the Hattians more Thyatic, and have > Heldann et all be "MGermany", with a feudal structure. I.E. currently with > a "Teutonic Knights" ruling class (from Thyatis, but assimilating into the > Heldannic society). Yes. I would see Hattians in a position similar to that of the latin allies of the republican Rome. > Previous "Freeholds" life would have thus been somewhat > similar to the loose, semi-feudal, semi-tribal structure of, say, the > Ostrogoths & Visigoths et al. Or that of the baltic tribes conquered by the Teutonic Order. > Probably eventually what IMO would/should emerge is something roughly > analogous to the Midieval German Empire in the areas of Heldann, Landfall, > and perhaps Oceansend, with the HK Order subsiding into your "standard" > feudal structure, and the "Grand Master" of the order becoming the area's > King or Kaisar. >From this and other mails, I see that there are at least two possible lines of expansion for the HK: the MTemplars and MGerman Empire. The Teplar one would probably have these effects: a reduction of the HK offensive power, due to knights practicing more with money than with weapons; an increment of the influence of the HK on Thyatis, due to increasing need of heldannic capitals; a rivality with Darokin, Minrothad and other merchant powers; less strained relations with neighboring countries, due to the reduced threat of invasion. The German Empire is more in line with Vanya's philosophy of conquest. The expansion of the HK could however be limited by some of these events: development of skyships in other countries; development of pikemen + longbowmen tactics; the lack of allies. The main advantage the HK have is that their enemies are not likely cooperating against them. In the end, I think that the two possible futures are quite incompatible, for both game balance problems and too different goal and behaviour. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #678 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, October 16 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 679 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Atzanteotl Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians RE: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 03:15:51 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians >Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:57:13 +0200 (METDST) >From: Agathokles >On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, [iso-8859-1] H=E5vard R=F8nne Faanes wrote: > >> I have to agree with Jamunga that Mystaran Nazis doesn't feel right. In >> fact I think the whole idea is a bit silly. >I agree. Also, for what concerns Heldannic Knights, they are already too >"modern" for me, with magic which mimics technology (warbirds). IMO,=20 >should they become MNazis, the effect of "modern nation disguised as=20 >middle-age" would disrupt the atmosfear of the game. >Let them remain MTeutonic Knights. Cannot more agree ... but i have the same feeling with NACE, alphatian hardball game ... >> This list has been really quiet lately, are everyone reading for exams = >or >> something? >Yes, we were studying for an exam in glantrian law :) Others can just have a lot of work ... Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT à mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 03:15:51 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians >Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:57:13 +0200 (METDST) >From: Agathokles >On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, [iso-8859-1] H=E5vard R=F8nne Faanes wrote: > >> I have to agree with Jamunga that Mystaran Nazis doesn't feel right. In >> fact I think the whole idea is a bit silly. >I agree. Also, for what concerns Heldannic Knights, they are already too >"modern" for me, with magic which mimics technology (warbirds). IMO,=20 >should they become MNazis, the effect of "modern nation disguised as=20 >middle-age" would disrupt the atmosfear of the game. >Let them remain MTeutonic Knights. Cannot more agree ... but i have the same feeling with NACE, alphatian hardball game ... >> This list has been really quiet lately, are everyone reading for exams = >or >> something? >Yes, we were studying for an exam in glantrian law :) Others can just have a lot of work ... Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT à mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 03:15:53 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians >Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:57:13 +0200 (METDST) >From: Agathokles >On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, [iso-8859-1] H=E5vard R=F8nne Faanes wrote: > >> I have to agree with Jamunga that Mystaran Nazis doesn't feel right. In >> fact I think the whole idea is a bit silly. >I agree. Also, for what concerns Heldannic Knights, they are already too >"modern" for me, with magic which mimics technology (warbirds). IMO,=20 >should they become MNazis, the effect of "modern nation disguised as=20 >middle-age" would disrupt the atmosfear of the game. >Let them remain MTeutonic Knights. Cannot more agree ... but i have the same feeling with NACE, alphatian hardball game ... >> This list has been really quiet lately, are everyone reading for exams = >or >> something? >Yes, we were studying for an exam in glantrian law :) Others can just have a lot of work ... Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT à mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 03:15:54 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians >Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:57:13 +0200 (METDST) >From: Agathokles >On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, [iso-8859-1] H=E5vard R=F8nne Faanes wrote: > >> I have to agree with Jamunga that Mystaran Nazis doesn't feel right. In >> fact I think the whole idea is a bit silly. >I agree. Also, for what concerns Heldannic Knights, they are already too >"modern" for me, with magic which mimics technology (warbirds). IMO,=20 >should they become MNazis, the effect of "modern nation disguised as=20 >middle-age" would disrupt the atmosfear of the game. >Let them remain MTeutonic Knights. Cannot more agree ... but i have the same feeling with NACE, alphatian hardball game ... >> This list has been really quiet lately, are everyone reading for exams = >or >> something? >Yes, we were studying for an exam in glantrian law :) Others can just have a lot of work ... Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT à mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 03:15:54 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians >Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:57:13 +0200 (METDST) >From: Agathokles >On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, [iso-8859-1] H=E5vard R=F8nne Faanes wrote: > >> I have to agree with Jamunga that Mystaran Nazis doesn't feel right. In >> fact I think the whole idea is a bit silly. >I agree. Also, for what concerns Heldannic Knights, they are already too >"modern" for me, with magic which mimics technology (warbirds). IMO,=20 >should they become MNazis, the effect of "modern nation disguised as=20 >middle-age" would disrupt the atmosfear of the game. >Let them remain MTeutonic Knights. Cannot more agree ... but i have the same feeling with NACE, alphatian hardball game ... >> This list has been really quiet lately, are everyone reading for exams = >or >> something? >Yes, we were studying for an exam in glantrian law :) Others can just have a lot of work ... Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT à mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 03:15:55 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians >Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:57:13 +0200 (METDST) >From: Agathokles >On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, [iso-8859-1] H=E5vard R=F8nne Faanes wrote: > >> I have to agree with Jamunga that Mystaran Nazis doesn't feel right. In >> fact I think the whole idea is a bit silly. >I agree. Also, for what concerns Heldannic Knights, they are already too >"modern" for me, with magic which mimics technology (warbirds). IMO,=20 >should they become MNazis, the effect of "modern nation disguised as=20 >middle-age" would disrupt the atmosfear of the game. >Let them remain MTeutonic Knights. Cannot more agree ... but i have the same feeling with NACE, alphatian hardball game ... >> This list has been really quiet lately, are everyone reading for exams = >or >> something? >Yes, we were studying for an exam in glantrian law :) Others can just have a lot of work ... Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT à mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 03:15:51 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians >Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:57:13 +0200 (METDST) >From: Agathokles >On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, [iso-8859-1] H=E5vard R=F8nne Faanes wrote: > >> I have to agree with Jamunga that Mystaran Nazis doesn't feel right. In >> fact I think the whole idea is a bit silly. >I agree. Also, for what concerns Heldannic Knights, they are already too >"modern" for me, with magic which mimics technology (warbirds). IMO,=20 >should they become MNazis, the effect of "modern nation disguised as=20 >middle-age" would disrupt the atmosfear of the game. >Let them remain MTeutonic Knights. Cannot more agree ... but i have the same feeling with NACE, alphatian hardball game ... >> This list has been really quiet lately, are everyone reading for exams = >or >> something? >Yes, we were studying for an exam in glantrian law :) Others can just have a lot of work ... Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT à mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 03:15:51 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians >Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:57:13 +0200 (METDST) >From: Agathokles >On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, [iso-8859-1] H=E5vard R=F8nne Faanes wrote: > >> I have to agree with Jamunga that Mystaran Nazis doesn't feel right. In >> fact I think the whole idea is a bit silly. >I agree. Also, for what concerns Heldannic Knights, they are already too >"modern" for me, with magic which mimics technology (warbirds). IMO,=20 >should they become MNazis, the effect of "modern nation disguised as=20 >middle-age" would disrupt the atmosfear of the game. >Let them remain MTeutonic Knights. Cannot more agree ... but i have the same feeling with NACE, alphatian hardball game ... >> This list has been really quiet lately, are everyone reading for exams = >or >> something? >Yes, we were studying for an exam in glantrian law :) Others can just have a lot of work ... Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT à mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 03:15:53 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians >Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:57:13 +0200 (METDST) >From: Agathokles >On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, [iso-8859-1] H=E5vard R=F8nne Faanes wrote: > >> I have to agree with Jamunga that Mystaran Nazis doesn't feel right. In >> fact I think the whole idea is a bit silly. >I agree. Also, for what concerns Heldannic Knights, they are already too >"modern" for me, with magic which mimics technology (warbirds). IMO,=20 >should they become MNazis, the effect of "modern nation disguised as=20 >middle-age" would disrupt the atmosfear of the game. >Let them remain MTeutonic Knights. Cannot more agree ... but i have the same feeling with NACE, alphatian hardball game ... >> This list has been really quiet lately, are everyone reading for exams = >or >> something? >Yes, we were studying for an exam in glantrian law :) Others can just have a lot of work ... Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT à mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 03:15:52 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians >Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:57:13 +0200 (METDST) >From: Agathokles >On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, [iso-8859-1] H=E5vard R=F8nne Faanes wrote: > >> I have to agree with Jamunga that Mystaran Nazis doesn't feel right. In >> fact I think the whole idea is a bit silly. >I agree. Also, for what concerns Heldannic Knights, they are already too >"modern" for me, with magic which mimics technology (warbirds). IMO,=20 >should they become MNazis, the effect of "modern nation disguised as=20 >middle-age" would disrupt the atmosfear of the game. >Let them remain MTeutonic Knights. Cannot more agree ... but i have the same feeling with NACE, alphatian hardball game ... >> This list has been really quiet lately, are everyone reading for exams = >or >> something? >Yes, we were studying for an exam in glantrian law :) Others can just have a lot of work ... Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT à mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 03:15:54 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians >Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:57:13 +0200 (METDST) >From: Agathokles >On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, [iso-8859-1] H=E5vard R=F8nne Faanes wrote: > >> I have to agree with Jamunga that Mystaran Nazis doesn't feel right. In >> fact I think the whole idea is a bit silly. >I agree. Also, for what concerns Heldannic Knights, they are already too >"modern" for me, with magic which mimics technology (warbirds). IMO,=20 >should they become MNazis, the effect of "modern nation disguised as=20 >middle-age" would disrupt the atmosfear of the game. >Let them remain MTeutonic Knights. Cannot more agree ... but i have the same feeling with NACE, alphatian hardball game ... >> This list has been really quiet lately, are everyone reading for exams = >or >> something? >Yes, we were studying for an exam in glantrian law :) Others can just have a lot of work ... Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT à mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 03:15:52 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians >Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:57:13 +0200 (METDST) >From: Agathokles >On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, [iso-8859-1] H=E5vard R=F8nne Faanes wrote: > >> I have to agree with Jamunga that Mystaran Nazis doesn't feel right. In >> fact I think the whole idea is a bit silly. >I agree. Also, for what concerns Heldannic Knights, they are already too >"modern" for me, with magic which mimics technology (warbirds). IMO,=20 >should they become MNazis, the effect of "modern nation disguised as=20 >middle-age" would disrupt the atmosfear of the game. >Let them remain MTeutonic Knights. Cannot more agree ... but i have the same feeling with NACE, alphatian hardball game ... >> This list has been really quiet lately, are everyone reading for exams = >or >> something? >Yes, we were studying for an exam in glantrian law :) Others can just have a lot of work ... Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT à mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 03:15:51 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians >Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:57:13 +0200 (METDST) >From: Agathokles >On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, [iso-8859-1] H=E5vard R=F8nne Faanes wrote: > >> I have to agree with Jamunga that Mystaran Nazis doesn't feel right. In >> fact I think the whole idea is a bit silly. >I agree. Also, for what concerns Heldannic Knights, they are already too >"modern" for me, with magic which mimics technology (warbirds). IMO,=20 >should they become MNazis, the effect of "modern nation disguised as=20 >middle-age" would disrupt the atmosfear of the game. >Let them remain MTeutonic Knights. Cannot more agree ... but i have the same feeling with NACE, alphatian hardball game ... >> This list has been really quiet lately, are everyone reading for exams = >or >> something? >Yes, we were studying for an exam in glantrian law :) Others can just have a lot of work ... Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT à mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 03:15:51 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians >Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:57:13 +0200 (METDST) >From: Agathokles >On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, [iso-8859-1] H=E5vard R=F8nne Faanes wrote: > >> I have to agree with Jamunga that Mystaran Nazis doesn't feel right. In >> fact I think the whole idea is a bit silly. >I agree. Also, for what concerns Heldannic Knights, they are already too >"modern" for me, with magic which mimics technology (warbirds). IMO,=20 >should they become MNazis, the effect of "modern nation disguised as=20 >middle-age" would disrupt the atmosfear of the game. >Let them remain MTeutonic Knights. Cannot more agree ... but i have the same feeling with NACE, alphatian hardball game ... >> This list has been really quiet lately, are everyone reading for exams = >or >> something? >Yes, we were studying for an exam in glantrian law :) Others can just have a lot of work ... Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT à mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 03:15:51 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians >Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:57:13 +0200 (METDST) >From: Agathokles >On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, [iso-8859-1] H=E5vard R=F8nne Faanes wrote: > >> I have to agree with Jamunga that Mystaran Nazis doesn't feel right. In >> fact I think the whole idea is a bit silly. >I agree. Also, for what concerns Heldannic Knights, they are already too >"modern" for me, with magic which mimics technology (warbirds). IMO,=20 >should they become MNazis, the effect of "modern nation disguised as=20 >middle-age" would disrupt the atmosfear of the game. >Let them remain MTeutonic Knights. Cannot more agree ... but i have the same feeling with NACE, alphatian hardball game ... >> This list has been really quiet lately, are everyone reading for exams = >or >> something? >Yes, we were studying for an exam in glantrian law :) Others can just have a lot of work ... Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT à mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 03:15:51 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians >Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:57:13 +0200 (METDST) >From: Agathokles >On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, [iso-8859-1] H=E5vard R=F8nne Faanes wrote: > >> I have to agree with Jamunga that Mystaran Nazis doesn't feel right. In >> fact I think the whole idea is a bit silly. >I agree. Also, for what concerns Heldannic Knights, they are already too >"modern" for me, with magic which mimics technology (warbirds). IMO,=20 >should they become MNazis, the effect of "modern nation disguised as=20 >middle-age" would disrupt the atmosfear of the game. >Let them remain MTeutonic Knights. Cannot more agree ... but i have the same feeling with NACE, alphatian hardball game ... >> This list has been really quiet lately, are everyone reading for exams = >or >> something? >Yes, we were studying for an exam in glantrian law :) Others can just have a lot of work ... Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT à mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 05:21:57 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Atzanteotl >Atzanteotl >(Lord of Corruption, the Feathered Serpent) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ???? Isn`t this actually Atruaghin? Hamlet 1,v,166 Paul ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 05:32:50 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians >From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" >To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians >Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 03:15:51 PDT >Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM 16 times this was posted! Accident, spam, list error? Btw is this a new multipost record for the list? Hamlet 1,v,166 Paul ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:09:31 +0200 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians I think it is a real record breaker! Please do not try to break this record :-) Kristian Kramer > -----Original Message----- > From: paul dooley [SMTP:ezaqwazy@hotmail.com] > Sent: Friday, October 16, 1998 2:33 PM > To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians > > > > >From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" > >To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians > >Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 03:15:51 PDT > >Reply-To: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > > > > 16 times this was posted! Accident, spam, list error? Btw is this a new > multipost record for the list? > > > Hamlet 1,v,166 > > Paul > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #679 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, October 17 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 680 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Atzanteotl [MYSTARA] - Contradictory `canon` [MYSTARA] - WotI why did it happen? Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians [MYSTARA] - Learning German, lesse 1 (was: [MYSTARA] Hattians) Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians [MYSTARA] - US Beagle Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians [MYSTARA] - Project (INTRIGUING) for a website Re: [MYSTARA] - Learning German, lesse 1 (was: [MYSTARA] Hattians) Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail Re: [MYSTARA] - Project (INTRIGUING) for a website Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Atzanteotl Re: [MYSTARA] - US Beagle [MYSTARA] - GMs Wanted! Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Atzanteotl Re: [MYSTARA] - WotI why did it happen? Re: [MYSTARA] - US Beagle Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Re: [MYSTARA] - US Beagle ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:12:46 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Atzanteotl On Fri, 16 Oct 1998, paul dooley wrote: > >Atzanteotl > >(Lord of Corruption, the Feathered Serpent) > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > ???? Isn`t this actually Atruaghin? The Winged Viper would be more appropriate, especially judging from the Blood Brethren Triology. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:44:21 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Contradictory `canon` 1986: F. Mentzer writes `gold box` in which on p15 of GM guide are laid out the goals of the Immortals. Paramount of these is `1. To maintain the existance and integrity of the Prime Plane and the creatures within it who, through their achievements, replenish the ranks of the Immortals.` 1987: B. Heard writes Gaz3 in which on p68 `Immortals of Energy gave the item great magical powers and altered it`s radiations. This allows wizards to use this energy to enhance their powers, and to allow wizards a chance to reach the Sphere of Energy and perhaps become Immortals.`. On p77 `Upon discovering the existance of the artifact, lords of Entropy perverted it`s powers so that the price for great energy could be the user`s soul.`. Now all of this is perfectly reasonable but then on p79(Gaz3) it reads as follows `Unfortunately the Immortals from the three other spheres intervened shortly after and gave the artifact a nasty side effect which consists of a permanent magic drain. Every time the artifact is used, magic energy is permanently drained from the Prime Material Plane.`. Note it`s not `Glantri` or `Mystara` but the entire plane. Question is was this just a mistake on Bruce`s part or was this the heresy of `NON-CANONICAL` thinking actually becoming `canon`? 1992: A. Allston writes WotI. This has the effect of making Bruce`s heresy `canon` as the Immortals have now managed to throw off their `Prime Directive` (sorry, couldn`t resist) and are free to rape and pillage across the multiverse.We also get a revisionist history of the NoS itself in which it is found and moved by an `Old One` and already has the abilities to make Energy Immortals. Only good thing about this is that it frees up the location of Blackmoor from being not too far from Glantri. Nos is then found by Noumena, a Heirarch of the Sphere of Time (this probably should be Noumena Heirarch of Thought but you never know) who deduces it`s existance. He reports it to his fellow Heirarchs of all spheres who decide to give it it`s leaching abilities, however it now only will affect Mystara. now Rad enters the picture as in 845 AC he supposedly achieves immortality. this actually makes him an Immortal51 years BEFORE the `canon` of his death leading to module X2 which actually takes place 979 AC. which is 83 years after the disapearance of Chateau d`Ambreville. What puzzles me still about this is with heirarchs of thought and time considering what to do about NoS why such an obviously bad choice? Not one heirarch of Thought actually thought it through, nor did any heirarch of Time take a look and see what might befall. Apparently during Aaron`s revisionism any brains and common sense that the Immortals may once have had was rudely stripped away from them at the same time as there obligation to protect the prime. BTW wasn`t Bruce product manager on this? no wonder his view became `canon` 1995: M.Cook pens G:KoM in which NoS is draining Energy again. Bruce apparently didn`t like this and wrote about what would happen if it drained Entropy. Well probably Frank didn`t like you rewriting his `canon` all those years ago. 1995: Mark of Amber (can`t remember who wrote this)in the secret history Etienne causes consternation as the first mortal to become Immortal without help. What about Rafiel? Hamlet 1,v,166 Paul ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:55:23 PDT From: "paul dooley" Subject: [MYSTARA] - WotI why did it happen? How come that virtually everything that happened in WotI was occuring in a vacuum? Between 1000 AC and 1004 Ac apart fromthose actually involved all the other Immortals stood by and did nothing. Am I the only one who has a problem with that. Why didn`t Koryis Patron of Peace try to get them to work it out? His main ally is Alphatia and Korotiku is a Heirarch of his sphere putting him in a good position to broker a deal. Maybe he could involve all those Immortals whose followers would be taken out as collateral damage by the war such as Halav, Petra etc? Hamlet 1,v,166 Paul ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:55:21 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail > IIRC, the DDA3 module Eye of Traldar COULD be considered the Karameikan > version of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade... Note however that I don't > have the module YET, so I'm judging from others' reviews of that adventure.. Well, I can assure you that I did NOT have this impression, and I have DDA3 and I have even played it! Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 19:02:38 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians > I agree. Also, for what concerns Heldannic Knights, they are already too > "modern" for me, with magic which mimics technology (warbirds). IMO, > should they become MNazis, the effect of "modern nation disguised as > middle-age" would disrupt the atmosfear of the game. > Let them remain MTeutonic Knights. We could compare them to the German Order ("Deutscher Orden"). Those knights conquered much land in the east, Eastern Prussia, Poland, Kurland (Latvia, Lithunia, Estonia). The German culture in the east originated much from the deeds of the order (and of the Hanse, of course!). Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 18:47:19 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Learning German, lesse 1 (was: [MYSTARA] Hattians) > Probably eventually what IMO would/should emerge is something roughly > analogous to the Midieval German Empire in the areas of Heldann, Landfall, > and perhaps Oceansend, with the HK Order subsiding into your "standard" > feudal structure, and the "Grand Master" of the order becoming the area's > King or Kaisar. King - Koenig ("oe" used to show a German letter, "ö") Emperor - Kaiser Jamuga Khan "Education is my mission, well, sometimes." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 18:51:12 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians > The German Empire is more in line with Vanya's philosophy of conquest. The > expansion of the HK could however be limited by some of these events: > development of skyships in other countries; development of pikemen + > longbowmen tactics; the lack of allies. The main advantage the HK have is > that their enemies are not likely cooperating against them. > In the end, I think that the two possible futures are quite incompatible, > for both game balance problems and too different goal and behaviour. What about that? The HL attack and conquer their former home, Thyatis! After some years of recuperation they renew their fight against the Alphatians only to disciver that those are well aware of them and well prepared. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 18:53:24 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians > Von: GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine > An: mystara-l@MPGN.COM > Betreff: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians > Datum: Freitag, 16. Oktober 1998 12:15 Well, Marc-Antoine, you've got a really BIG problem with your mailing program, haven't you? Jamuga Khan "Go ahead, men! The wave must stop someday! (I hope)" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 19:12:50 +0200 From: Michele Vacchiano Subject: [MYSTARA] - US Beagle - --------------8FF81A2D93627B3E3FA08E44 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Could someone explain to me why the NoS spaceship is called "US" Beagle (I think I've read it in GAZ3 or WotI)? Thanks - -- Giorgio - --------------8FF81A2D93627B3E3FA08E44 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Could someone explain to me why the NoS spaceship is called "US" Beagle (I think I've read it in GAZ3 or WotI)?
Thanks

--
Giorgio
  - --------------8FF81A2D93627B3E3FA08E44-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 12:13:06 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Mystara] Hattians > > What about that? > > The HL attack and conquer their former home, Thyatis! > > After some years of recuperation they renew their fight against the > Alphatians only to disciver that those are well aware of them and > well prepared. > IMO, rather unimaginative, because it involves the same old nations, and the same old prejudices. Better, IMO, would be to have the HKs conquer Denagoth in a "Crusade against evil," which would also (somewhat) boost their reputation with other countries, if only for a little while. Plus, Denagoth is almost ignored up their. I know the Net Almanac had a "Wendaran Crusade" vs. Denagoth (briefly), but IMO it would be more appropriate to have an order of Knights engage in such behavior. As for the other idea, *yawn*. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 19:19:22 +0200 From: Michele Vacchiano Subject: [MYSTARA] - Project (INTRIGUING) for a website This idea originally came out on an italian rpg fanzine called Kaos (chaos). I apologize to copyright owners, but I think it could do its best on the web (unless, of course, someone else has already thought of it): The project is an INTERACTIVE DUNGEON. I mean, you start describing one single room and it's "build-by-mail": everybody can send e-mails with description of new rooms, areas, monsters, levels, allies, weapons, magical objects (and perhaps give its own name to all this thing). Think of it: it would be a living little world, always mutating and changing, ready-to-play or just to have a bit of celebrity. Try to imaginate a brand, new country born in this way... Something to say? Wanna give me some help? I guess it should be fun...:))) - -- Giorgio *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 12:16:24 -0500 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Learning German, lesse 1 (was: [MYSTARA] Hattians) > > King - Koenig ("oe" used to show a German letter, "ö") > This one I didn't know. > Emperor - Kaiser > This one I knew, but my usual spelling deficiency got to me. 8-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 13:02:00 -0500 From: Galwylin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Holy Grail At 06:55 PM 10/15/98 +0200, Jamuga Khan wrote: > >Well, I can assure you that I did NOT have this impression, >and I have DDA3 and I have even played it! You'd have to give that to it. Since you were in my PBeM *sniff* involving the Eye, I can tell you a little what I have planned for it. The Eye of Traldar was an ancient artifact that could control people through thought. Of course, this knowledge had become lost over time (Nithia had known the secret but were destroyed before they could make use of it) but the Heldennics had discovered records that spoke of the Eye and were in the plot that stole it. Until Baron Kelvin had found out and sought to gain control of Karameikos with it, foiling their plans. Terari had also discovered the secret of the Eye and it was he that had hired adventurers to recover it seeing it as Karameikos's best defense should Thyatis invade. Well, that's the rough notes I had on it. Really more a lost Ark of the Covenent ;) This has been a Galwylin® Production galwylin@airnet.net http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:16:40 -0400 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Project (INTRIGUING) for a website At 07:19 PM 10/16/98 +0200, you wrote: >This idea originally came out on an italian rpg fanzine called Kaos >(chaos). I apologize to copyright owners, but I think it could do its >best on the web (unless, of course, someone else has already thought of >it): >The project is an INTERACTIVE DUNGEON. I mean, you start describing one >single room and it's "build-by-mail": everybody can send e-mails with >description of new rooms, areas, monsters, levels, allies, weapons, >magical objects (and perhaps give its own name to all this thing). >Think of it: it would be a living little world, always mutating and >changing, ready-to-play or just to have a bit of celebrity. Try to >imaginate a brand, new country born in this way... > >Something to say? Wanna give me some help? I guess it should be >fun...:))) > >-- Fun to build maybe... Fun to play. Thats another story. Why? Because everyone has their own ideas, and its hard to make people stick to a cohesive pattern. Off hand, there was one MUD that I came close to liking, Times Of Chaos, but it mixed elements from too many different places, also the background story was a bit difficult to understand. The only real good MUD I've ever played was a commercial one, called Dragonrealms, but then again, it has over 100 GMs working on it, and it still isn't finished. Which comes to another point, would we even have the manpower for this? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 18:13:52 +0300 From: "Aleksei Andrievski" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Atzanteotl >>Atzanteotl >>(Lord of Corruption, the Feathered Serpent) > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >???? Isn`t this actually Atruaghin? > Atzanteotl is called "the Feathered Serpent" in WotI, and one of his manifestation forms looks like that. Atruaghin may be "Mystaran Quetzalcoatl", but that doesn't mean he has to share the looks or the monikers. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Blue Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:31:49 EDT From: Magesmiley@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - US Beagle In a message dated 10/16/98 10:46:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time, michele.vacchiano@torino.ALPcom.it writes: << Could someone explain to me why the NoS spaceship is called "US" Beagle (I think I've read it in GAZ3 or WotI)? Thanks -- Giorgio >> Actually its the FSS Beagle. FSS = Federation Survey Ship - -Mage *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 18:20:17 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: [MYSTARA] - GMs Wanted! Greetings. I'm the RPG coordinator for MonCon '99, which will be held on March 19-21st at the Tinton Falls Hilton in Tinton Falls NJ. In that capacity, I'm looking for GMs (and players, too) for Mystara or OD&D-specific events at the convention. If you're in the NJ/NY/PA/MD area, and think you'd be interested in running such an event, please contact me - -OFF-LIST- and I'll give you more specifics. Thanx for your time... - -- talmeta@bellatlantic.net - I *am* one of the Chosen Few! ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta1 TANJ Lives! - Alternate Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 01:31:39 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Atzanteotl > > > Atzanteotl is called "the Feathered Serpent" in WotI, and one of his manifestation forms looks like that. Atruaghin may be "Mystaran Quetzalcoatl", but that doesn't mean he has to share the looks or the monikers. > If I am not too wrong, it is Ka the Preserver the Immortal which favours a Feathered Serpent look (along with the Dinosaur one). He is also called "The Amber Serpent" and, according to WotI, his form is the closest to the couatl thing. Atzanteotl is just out for mockery. He dons a serpent form, but he keeps an elvish head along. Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 01:58:08 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - WotI why did it happen? In a message dated 1998-10-16 10:36:50 Eastern Daylight Time, ezaqwazy@hotmail.com writes: > How come that virtually everything that happened in WotI was occuring in > a vacuum? Between 1000 AC and 1004 Ac apart fromthose actually involved > all the other Immortals stood by and did nothing. Am I the only one who > has a problem with that. Why didn`t Koryis Patron of Peace try to get > them to work it out? His main ally is Alphatia and Korotiku is a > Heirarch of his sphere putting him in a good position to broker a deal. > Maybe he could involve all those Immortals whose followers would be > taken out as collateral damage by the war such as Halav, Petra etc? To start with, Alphatia and Korotiku took sides in WotI and so would have sabotaged any deal that Koryis tried to put together -- as, for that matter, would the Entropic Immortals of the Brotherhood of the Shadow. My guess is that Koryis tried and failed to make peace. However, he does seem to have succeeded in persuading his Ochalean followers not to get involved. Ilsundal is credited with fanning the flames of independence there and in the Pearl Islands -- but in Ochalea, at least, the pacifistic philosophy of Koryis could not have done much to strengthen popular support for Thyatis's apparently hopeless war with Alphatia -- in fact, it may have become a decisive factor when it became obvious that mainland Thyatis was about to lose the war. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 09:56:22 +0200 From: Michele Vacchiano Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - US Beagle > > > Actually its the FSS Beagle. FSS = Federation Survey Ship > > -Mage Federation? Which federation? Giorgio *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 08:51:07 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor James said: >Well, not to nessisarily defend the original premise (that Thyatians and >Thonians have a connection, though I guess they might), but the various >Thyatians are obviously not of "pure" Antalian extraction (different skin >tone, blond hair rare at best, etc), so they must have intermingled with >some other folks as well. Nithians a possibility, but could be others in >the mixture. Depends on what kinds of historical ties folks want to set up. > You're right on this score. Personally I think the Antalian slaves intermixed with the Milenians after they wiped their Nithian overlords off the map, as Marco theorized. This not only explains the MGreek influence in Thyatian architecture, but also how the Thyatian language may have shaped itself, and the general appearance of Thyatians and Kerendans. The Hattians, having been portrayed as racists, could easily have a long-established tradition of not mixing with foreigners. This could very well have dated back from the time of the Nithian enslavement (though this reason has of course been long forgotten), and it could explain why they still look Nordic - they did not mix with the Milenians, or anyone else they came across. All this aside, I've always been curious about the Hinterlanders. IMO, judging from all the material I've read, I'd have to say that the Hinterlanders are in fact the long-lost cousins of the Thyatians, Kerendans, and Hattians. They were brought to Davania as well, but they could have freed themselves earlier, and migrated elsehwere for a time, returning to the original spot when the Thyatians et al left. Nothing seems to contradict this idea, at any rate, and I think it sounds neat. Nothing like a bit of irony. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 09:03:07 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor Andrew said: >A) "Antalians" as such didn't exist at the time. The Skandaharians, on the >other hand, did. Don't mean to split hairs here, but which time are you referring to? If you're talking about pre-GRoF, then you're right. The Antalians are described as "flourishing" in what is now Norwold by BC 2400, almost 1000 years before Nithia even arises. Personally, I'd put their first appearance as a primitive people a few centuries earlier (closer to BC 3000). Incidentally, this could help in the Skandaharian-Antalian tie in theory (one which I also use IMC). >IMO, the Antalians are actually descendants of the Skandaharian peoples, >and not the other way around. IMC, though, I have Antalia as the name given >to those white, blond, peoples to the north of the Nithian Empire (a name >given them by Nithians, that is.) I agree with you here. I do the same IMC. I hope I wasn't giving the impression that I thought that the Skadaharians came after the Antalians (definitely incorrect, at any rate). >b) In any case, the Thonian peoples are likely descendants of the >Skandaharian/Antalian peoples that were themselves descendants of the >Neathar peoples. I figured the same thing. IMC I have the Skandaharians migrating south to Thonia after GRoF (to try to avoid the worst effects), and then moving to eastern Brun a century or two later. By the time they reach the half-frozen coasts of Norwold, they've forgotten most of their culture and technology (due to massive die-offs and such), so basically they have to start over again, but the Norse element survivies. >But to address your point about the Thyatian emigration, how about this: > >Perhaps the different (sometimes seemingly wildly different) tribes of >Thyatis (Thyatis, Kerendas, Hattias) were actually due to varying levels of >Thonian influence on the Antalian immigrants? > >How's that sound? :) > Sounds good to me. Perhaps the Thonian descendants helped the Thyatic tribes overthrow their Nithian overlords in Davania (since the Nithian colonies did exist there, and they had managed to bring them to the continent)? Add to this Milenian influence, and you've got the modern peoples of Thyatis. Some interesting ideas. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 10:05:23 -0400 From: Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - US Beagle At 09:56 AM 10/17/98 +0200, Michele Vacchiano wrote: > > > >> >> >> Actually its the FSS Beagle. FSS = Federation Survey Ship >> >> -Mage > >Federation? Which federation? > >Giorgio The adventures in which the FSS Beagle appears is more centered around Mystaran contact with alien technology and the contact with a few alien refugees. It is not concerned with the faraway alien culture itself. Therefore we have little info on the "Federation" besides the fact that it is a huge system spanning civilization which maintains and incredibly complex bureaucracy. The government is in fact so bureaucratic that it sometimes loses spaceship exploration units....this is what spurs part of the crew on the FSS Beagle to mutiny and attempt contact with the natives (Mystarans), despite their important rule of no contact with "primitive civilizations". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1997 #680 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.