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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 12:35:47 +0200
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From: Jacob Skytte <scythe@WANADOO.DK>
Subject: Re: Immortals & such
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DM <mdalmonte@PROVINCIA.RA.IT> wrote:
> Aaron E Nowack <anowack@JUNO.COM> wrote:
>=20
> <<Err... no. The Old One in Wrath of the Immortals firmly states that
> direct intervention is wrong.
> Then, in Mark of Amber, it is explicity stated that the Old Ones =
stripped
> Rad of his Immortality and cast him into a nether-world dream state =
until
> he learned from his mistakes.>>
>=20
> How absurd! I mean, stating that direct intervention is wrong, and =
then intervening directly to correct the things! The Old Ones committed =
the same sin of the Immortals then!
The Old One doesn't exactly state that direct intervention is wrong. It =
(?) tells Ixion that he should care more about all mortals, since he was =
one himself once, and since he owes his existence to his mortal =
followers. From what I can tell from Mark of Amber, the Old Ones are =
concerned that Immortals will use mortals to settle their affairs, =
harming them in the process. There's nothing (that I could find) to =
prove that the Old Ones frown upon Immortals appearing on the Prime =
Plane in Manifestation form or directly intervening in matters that =
won't harm mortals. The rules on Direct Actions were made by the =
Immortals themselves, not set by the Old Ones. From what little can be =
found about the Old Ones, they seem to care about every life in the =
multiverse. They wouldn't accept that Rad had killed so many mortals, =
but they couldn't just destroy him themselves (*that* would go against =
*their* principles). So they decided to teach him more about caring for =
others, especially mortals, by casting him into a dream state.
Still, I do agree that it's silly that an Old One personally appears =
from the Nucleus (talk about a Deus ex machina), sets things right, then =
leaves mysteriously. Considering that the Old Ones are such a mystery =
that the Immortals are just guessing at their existence, that is very =
strange. Apparently the Immortal's War was so utterly exceptional that =
they felt they needed to show themselves?
So to anyone who cares, here's my take on the Old Ones:
>From the notes found in the original Immortal Rules (the Gold Box), the =
Old Ones created the Multiverse as an experiment to create beings that =
were some day able to become Old Ones themselves. It turned out that =
mortal creatures could grow to become Immortal, and that Immortal =
creatures also grew, and that they were able to gain further insight by =
giving up their Immortality, and gaining it once again. This long =
process eventually resulted in creating another Old One. The experiment =
was a success!
Though the Old Ones know that every mortal creature has the potential to =
become an Old One, they do not wish to protect and nourish every one of =
them, after all, the Multiverse they'd created was meant to challenge =
the mortals; the mortals would grow by overcoming these challenges, and =
while some mortals were lost along the way, they still contributed to =
the experiment. The Immortals, however, the Old Ones observe more =
closely, since they have overcome the first challenge, and are well on =
their way. Still, they prefer to maneuver subtly, so as not to upset the =
experiment, even though they are anxious to create more of their kind.
During WotI the Old Ones observed closely, and when it appeared that Rad =
would be lost to them, they acted. They sent one of their servants, a =
vortex creature vastly superior to an Immortal, to grab Rad before he =
was destroyed. They also passed the message to Ixion that he should care =
more about mortals, since they're hoping that he'll become an Old One =
yet. The Old Ones then studied Rad closely to learn what they could of =
his peculiar way of reaching Immortality, since it could prove a useful =
way to create Immortals quickly. They cast Rad into the dream state to =
mold him subtly into a being that would stand a greater chance of =
becoming an Old One. If the Rad experiment succeeds, they may well =
recreate the Nucleus of the Spheres or another such device.
Though the whole WotI/Rad situation implies that the Old Ones defy the =
very nature of their Multiverse experiment by interfering directly with =
it's results, perhaps this is not without precedent? When the first =
Immortal creature arose, the Old Ones in all likelihood grabbed the =
subject and studied it closely to find out what the creature was capable =
of, and exactly how it had appeared. This is what happened to Hel, =
Ixion, and those other Immortals who don't remember their origins. They =
all somehow achieved Immortality in ways that had not been seen before, =
or were perhaps the original creatures that achieved Immortality.
Who knows? Perhaps the Multiverse is not the first such experiment of =
the Old Ones, perhaps there have been several that destroyed themselves =
eventually, so the Old Ones are now taking a more direct approach to =
create as many new Old Ones as possible before the experiment goes =
askew.
Jacob Skytte
scythe@wanadoo.dk
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 12:59:41 +0200
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From: Caroletti <scarole@TIN.IT>
Subject: Tome of Mystara
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Sorry if I ask...but any news about the Tome of Mystara?
Iulius Sergius Scaevola
Captain of the XXth Cohort
Port Lucinius, Thyatis
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 10:19:37 -0400
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
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From: Geoff Gander <au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: Tome of Mystara
Giulio wrote:
>Sorry if I ask...but any news about the Tome of Mystara?
Not yet. IIRC, the release was scheduled to happen sometime in May, in
large part depending on how much material had been submitted by then.
Geoff
--
Geoff Gander, BA 97
Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon
Carnifex Loremaster
au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 10:48:59 -0400
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From: John Shuell <shuell@BITSMART.COM>
Subject: State of the Known World AC 700+
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Hey all,=20
First off, Im new to this list, and so far have found it extremely =
enlightening. I used to own the Gazateers back when I played D&D =
consistently and loved the cultures that mixed in the world enough to =
make it my main campaign setting for some time. I am now getting back =
into playing and want to use this world again, only problem is I cannot =
locate the gazateer books I once used. My campaign is scheduled to =
start with a Shadow Elf who has been born disfigured and cast out. He =
has survived his young years and through much luck (or immortal =
guidance) has reached the surface world in the broken lands. The child =
is than found by an Elven war party and sent to Alfheim, where he is =
studied and raised. I want this Elf to be a major player in starting =
the invasion of Alfheim, and to be torn by his parent race and the race =
that raised him during this time. So the majority of my campaign will =
be in and around Alfheim and this player character. My biggest problem =
is, I have to start this sometime around 700 AC, and Im at a loss of =
what the Known World looks like at this point in the timeline. I have =
studied the Timelines on the net and have been able to gather bits and =
peices of the picture, but not enough to build an accurate world from. =
Anyone have knowledge or ideas (cannon or not) that I can use to help =
set the stage. I expect the campaign to evolve over a three hundred =
year time span so my biggest chunk of missing information is from 700 AC =
- 1000 AC. I am wandering Ebay and buying up whatever Mystara Gazateers =
I can find there to help with the AC 1000 + details.
The year is 700 AC, what are the affairs of the Known World and it's =
nations at this time:
Alfheim: Most important I need to know how Alfheim fairs in regards to =
the Shadow Elves, have the two related races been in contact with each =
other yet? What are some important events that happen in and around =
Alfheim over the next three hundred years? Who is in control, and what =
major (or even minor) political happenings are about to unfold for them? =
What of the many clans, what are their differing traits and agendas?
Darokin: Being so close Alfheim I imagine I will need as much detail =
about this nation as Alfheim.
The Broken Lands and the Orcs of Thar: Are any major forces accumulating =
under any special personas in the Broken Lands for the next three =
hundred years? How big of a threat is this area during this time (700 =
AC)?
Traladara: What is this country, where was it based geographically and =
how much political power did it weild in other nations? And what =
eventually became of it?
Flaemish: What country did these people belong to and where exactly in =
modern Glantri did the country power seat reside? What beef did they =
have with the incoming human and elven settlers to the area?
Braejr: What nation is this?
Glantri: What are the state of affairs for this nation, does it exist =
yet?
Karameikos: During this time which nation held the lands that are now =
Karameikos?
The Five Shires: what major happenings were underway at this point in =
the shires?
Thanks for any help you guys can give. Im digging for details and =
adventure hooks related to an Elf, but will take anything that involves =
this 3 hundred year time span.
John S
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 11:45:29 -0500
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From: Mischa Gelman <mgelman@CITY-NET.COM>
Subject: Re: State of the Known World AC 700+
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On Sun, 29 Apr 2001, John Shuell wrote:
The Broken Lands: Fairly similar to the present day, though more
fragmeneted politically. All the different humanoids already have
established themselves, though the borders may be different from 1000 AC.
> Traladara: What is this country, where was it based geographically and
> how much political power did it weild in other nations? And what
> eventually became of it?
>
> Karameikos: During this time which nation held the lands that are now
> Karameikos?
Karameikos was Traladara at that point and it was a fairly weak nation
politically. Traladara was composed of numerous semi-independent towns and
villages, who only unified on occasion - 200 years later they would
be conquered by Thyatis, gaining independence as Karameikos in 970 AC. The
major cities of modern Karameikos had not yet been established and the
culture was quite different.
- Mischa
As we look out on the human condition, our consciences cannot be clean. If
they are clean, then it is because we do not use them enough. - Abba Eban
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 18:11:30 +0200
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= <havardfaa@YAHOO.NO>
Subject: Re: Church of Karameikos Summary
In-Reply-To: <3AE71968.6C1EB2A9@libero.it>
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--- Agathokles <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>:
> Havard Faanes wrote:
"Ive toyed with the idea of a Reformed Church of
Karameikos unifying the two groups under the
leadership of Aleena Halaran as the new patriarch in
the future of my campaign. However, even if this were
to happen, many people would probably oppose this for
centuries to come."
Agathokles <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>:
> I don't think the CoT would accept this solution.
> Even though their
> philosophy is rather tolerant, it contains the seeds
> for a much more
> aggressive policy. An attempt by the CoK to steal
> the worship of the
> Traladaran triad from the CoT could well result in a
> radicalization of
> the latter Church's philosophy.
The CoT does not really have a powerful organization.
As I see it, much of that church's politics is formed
at local level, rather than nationally. Some priests
would naturally object to the formation, but others
could be persuaded to join. Especially, if the
Traladaran Three themselves were in favour of the
unification, which really would be in their interest
IMO.
> Also, if Oderbry's faction is still around, it will
> be the war, and when
> that's over, many discontented Thyatian would switch
> back to the Church
> of Thyatis or the Wings of Vanya, which could then
> set a foot in
> Karameikos.
I havent decided upon all the events leading up to
this unification, but Oderbury, Jowett, Sherlane and
all their factions should be out of the picture by
then, or at least considerably weakened. Im thinking
the war if any might happen prior to the unification.
> Only the Cult of Halav could perhaps be interested
> in the merge, but I
> don't think they'd receive a good welcome...
The Cult of Halav is weird. I would like to use these
fanatics in some way, but them being in favour of
Stefan makes them less interesting. They could become
more interesting after Stefan is dead. They could find
a new candidate for Halav, one who isnt actually King.
This would give them more of a purpose, which is
something I think they are lacking right now.
Haavard
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 18:22:25 +0200
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= <havardfaa@YAHOO.NO>
Subject: Re: Immortals & such
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--- Michael McConnell <spectre@ZOMBIEWORLD.COM> skrev:
On Immortal Intervention:
> In general, I keep the Immortals in the background
> because they have a tendancy to take center stage in
> the setting a lot, and I don't like anything to
> overshadow the PCs. How do other people handle this,
> and what do people think is an "acceptable" level of
> Immortal influence? M.
I agree with you. I found that my players only became
frustrated with the way I ran WotI and the level of
intervention there. Keeping the Immortals in the
background also helps them seem more mysterious, and
that makes the players more respectfull towards them
IMO. IMC I have found that some players think the
immortals are just annoying.
I prefer Immortals who act through agents such as
cults, demons or monster servants. Sending dreams is
also a useful tool, as are other mysterious ways of
communication, such as leaving signs or mysterious
objects on the characters' trails. Anything else
should be avoided IMO, at least on the Prime Plane.
Haavard
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 18:40:07 +0200
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= <havardfaa@YAHOO.NO>
Subject: Re: Immortals & such
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--- Christopher Cherrington :
Then, in Mark of Amber, it is explicity stated that
> the Old Ones stripped
> Rad of his Immortality and cast him into a
> nether-world dream state until
> he learned from his mistakes.
I never liked this. WotI is interestingly ambigous,
leaving it up to the individual GMs to determine what
happens to Rad. MoA is one possible answer, one that I
find silly. I dont like patronistic Gods popping up
punnishing people, be they immortals or old ones.
Also, I pretty much think Rad was doing the right
thing, at least untill the end when he messed it up.
But I have a theory of what happened that doesnt
contradict MoA, but which I still think is better than
the simple Rad got stripped of his powers as a
punishment:
The Path to the Old Ones is unknown. Some Immortals
speculate that become an old one you must attain the
status of Hierarch twice. What if the Old One raised
Rad to Hierarch status, stripped him of his powers and
then gave him the test/punnishment after which if he
was successful would be given a chance to attain Old
One status once he reaches Hierarch status again?
It would be unorthodox, but then, the way Rad attained
his immortality in an unorthodox way in the first
place.
Haavard
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 14:10:10 -0400
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From: Geoff Gander <au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: State of the Known World AC 700+
You wrote:
<cool idea snipped>
This is a neat idea. I'll try to help you out here (everyone else can
correct me if I'm wrong/add other things in if they wish).
>Alfheim: Most important I need to know how Alfheim fairs in regards to =
>the Shadow Elves, have the two related races been in contact with each =
>other yet? What are some important events that happen in and around =
>Alfheim over the next three hundred years? Who is in control, and what =
>major (or even minor) political happenings are about to unfold for them? =
> What of the many clans, what are their differing traits and agendas?
No contact exists with the shadowelves around AC 700. There may be
isolated raids, but most Alfheimers are either unaware of the shadowelves,
or they just ignore them. IIRC, all of the clans who lived there in AC
1000 were they by AC 700.
>
>Darokin: Being so close Alfheim I imagine I will need as much detail =
>about this nation as Alfheim.
The Elfwars ended about 300 years earlier, so relations may not be as
amiable as they will be in another 300 years. Also, Darokin is ruled by
the Eastwind Kings (or maybe it was a different dynasty - anyway, Darokin
at this time is not a republic), and it is larger. Darokin at this time
also included parts of what is now Ylaruam, southern Glantri, and northern
Karameikos (probably those bits around the Cruth Mountains). Furthermore,
Ardelphia is not in ruins; it is a vibrant trading city, conducting the
north-south trade with the Flaemish lands to the north; Itheldown Island
is also not a fearsome ruin at this time.
Some towns and villages present in the Gazetteers may not be in existence
in AC 700 - Armstead, I think, was founded by Traladaran refugees
following the Thyatian invasion of AC 900 or so. Likewise, there could be
other towns and villages that no longer stand today - perhaps near the
Broken Lands or the Malpheggi Swamp.
>Braejr: What nation is this?
Braejr was the old (Flaemish) name of Glantri City.
>
>Glantri: What are the state of affairs for this nation, does it exist =
>yet?
No, the lands that will become Glantri (it was named Glantri in AC 828) would
only be inhabited by Flaems at this time, with Braejr as their capital
city. Only around AC 730 do elven and human migrants start arriving, and
the place does not become a magocracy until the early 800s AC (during which
the Forty Years War was fought over that ideal). As for why the Flaems
don't like the newcomers, I can't remember, but one element was probably
because the Flaems saw the valleys of their land as their exclusive
preserve, and didn't relish the thought of sharing it with anyone.
In addition to this, however, you can always add a bit of extra flavour to
your campaign. Any number of independent baronies and the like could have
existed in the Known World at this time, but they were either too tiny, or
too short-lived, to register in the "official" rolls of history. Thus,
they have long since been swallowed up by other nations, or simply fallen
into wilderness once more, with a couple of ruins to denote that something
significant was ever there.
Good questions, though. Hope this helped,
Geoff
--
Geoff Gander, BA 97
Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon
Carnifex Loremaster
au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 20:13:15 +0200
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From: Jacob Skytte <scythe@WANADOO.DK>
Subject: Re: State of the Known World AC 700+
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John Shuell <shuell@BITSMART.COM> wrote:
>>Alfheim: Most important I need to know how Alfheim fairs in regards to =
the Shadow Elves, have the two related races been in contact with each =
other yet? What are some important events that happen in and around =
Alfheim over the next three hundred years? Who is in control, and what =
major (or even minor) political happenings are about to unfold for them? =
What of the many clans, what are their differing traits and agendas?<<
>From GAZ5:
The Shadow Elves approached King Celedryl of Alfheim around the year 560 =
AC, demanding half of Alfheim and leadership of the nation in =
reparations for the Alfheim Elves abandoning them. King Celedryl refused =
their demands. Alfheim allied with Darokin and crushed the Shadow Elves =
who then attempted to take Alfheim by force. The Shadow Elves were =
driven into the Broken Lands and disappeared.
In 600 AC the last of the Alfheim clans arrived in Alfheim; clan =
Feadiel, who were driven from their lands by the mage Moorkroft (see =
module CM7 for more info).
In the following century the Shadow Elves infiltrated the Alfheim Elves, =
but some of them came to adopt the Alfheim way of life, and revealed =
their brethren to the Alfheim Elves. In 675 AC there was a great purge =
of Shadow Elves from Alfheim, but it was only partly succesful. Shadow =
Elves have been hiding among the Alfheim Elves ever since.
In 700 AC Doriath is crowned as king of Alfheim. He remains king until =
the fall of Alfheim during WotI.
A brief description of the clans (write me personally if you need more =
details, I'll try to find some time to help you out):
Chossum: A mercantile clan; progressive, and interested in contact with =
the other nations of the world.
Erendyl: The artisan clan; their clothings and ornamentions are worth =
more than others'. King Doriath is of Clan Erendyl.
Feadiel: Over-achievers; over-react to prove their bravery, many =
wanderers (Elves who leave Alfheim) come from this clan.
Grunalf: Trackers and hunters; more so than the other clans.
Long Runner: Good Treekeepers and wizards; isolationists.
Mealidil: Want to keep Alfheim as it was in the old days, opposed to =
change; have the finest library of Alfheim.
Red Arrow: Militant warriors, very combat oriented.
>>Darokin: Being so close Alfheim I imagine I will need as much detail =
about this nation as Alfheim.<<
>From GAZ11:
Back in Darokin's past, the Alfheim Elves helped the humans fight the =
Orcs, since they would rather have human for neighbours than Orcs. =
Darokin became a kingdom for several hundred years. Between 501 and 504 =
AC Darokin fought Alfheim, basically over misunderstandings. Darokin =
were unable to conquer Alfheim, and let the issue drop, and so did the =
Elves, who saw it all as a big game anyway. After more Orc trouble, =
where Corunglain fell in 523 AC, Darokin settled down. They had =
practically no relations with the Alfheim Elves for centuries. By 650 AC =
the king of Darokin was practically powerless, since each town was an =
independent power in itself. The last of the Darokin Kings dies in 723 =
AC with no heirs.
During the following two centuries, Darokin slowly grows in population. =
Individual towns are powerful city-states, and some of them exert some =
influence over neighbouring villages and smaller towns. These are the =
present-day cities of Darokin, Akorros, Corunglain, and Selenica.
Notable events: In 828 AC Glantri expels all dwarves, some settle in =
Darokin. In 846 AC a huge force of Orcs loot and level the city of =
Ardelphia; their bickering leads them to disband and return home =
afterwards. Also during the early 800s, the Emirates of Ylaruam declare =
independence, and several people loyal to the old rulers are exiled, =
many end up in Darokin. Finally in 900 AC, Thyatis conquers Traladara =
(later to become Karameikos), and many refugees from those lands find =
their way to Darokin.
In 927 AC Darokin becomes a Republic, and the famous Darokin Diplomatic =
Corps (DDC) was founded.
>>The Broken Lands and the Orcs of Thar: Are any major forces =
accumulating under any special personas in the Broken Lands for the next =
three hundred years? How big of a threat is this area during this time =
(700 AC)?<<
>From GAZ10:
The Broken Lands are mostly in internal turmoil with in-fighting. There =
may be some raids, but it is not until 800 AC that the humanoid hordes =
become a true threat to neighbouring nations. The following period, =
known as the Orcwars, sees humanoids plundering caravans, torching =
cities, and generally ravaging their neighbours. In 846 AC they destroy =
Ardelphia in Darokin. In the early 800s, there is also a great plague, =
which spreads into Glantri. Eventually, in 975 AC, King Thar takes =
control of the Broken Lands.
>>Traladara: What is this country, where was it based geographically and =
how much political power did it weild in other nations? And what =
eventually became of it?<<
>>Karameikos: During this time which nation held the lands that are now =
Karameikos?<<
>From GAZ1:
The lands that will become Karameikos belong to the Traladara. They live =
in a number of independent villages. The village of Marilenev (later to =
become Specularum and, later still, Mirros) is the most trade-oriented =
village of these lands since 400 AC. In the year 900 AC Marilenev is =
conquered by Thyatis, who lay claim to all of the Traladara region. They =
rename Marilenev "Specularum". In 970 AC Stefan Karameikos trades his =
lands for the lands of Traladara, renaming them "The Grand Duchy of =
Karameikos".
Also in these lands are the Callarii Elves, a "lost tribe" of the =
ancient Elven migration, cousins to the Alfheim Elves. They have been =
here since 0 AC.
>>Flaemish: What country did these people belong to and where exactly =
in modern Glantri did the country power seat reside? What beef did they =
have with the incoming human and elven settlers to the area?<<
>>Braejr: What nation is this?<<
>>Glantri: What are the state of affairs for this nation, does it exist =
yet?<<
>From GAZ3:
The Flaems colonize the area that will become known as Glantri in 395 =
AC. They build their capital of Braejr in 450 AC at the site of =
present-day Glantri City. They live there for centuries, warring with =
the Ethengar hordes occasionally. In the early 700s several settlers =
come to the lands of the Flaems, including Thyatians, Traladarans, and =
some Elves! The clan of Alhambra arrived from far-away lands, and =
brought a splinter group of Clan Erendyl of Alfheim with them. These new =
settlers cause frictions with the Flaems. In 784 AC war breaks out =
between the Flaems and the new settlers. In 788 AC, the Flaems are =
defeated, the warlord Halzunthram captures their lands and name them an =
Alphatian dominion. The Elves gain independence.
In the early 800s, there is a gold rush, and many dwarves enter the =
lands of Braejr. The Flaems have been revolting against Halzunthram =
since he took over, and in 828 AC, they defeat him in an alliance with =
the Thyatian settlers led by Lord Alexander Glantri. Braejr is renamed =
Glantri City in his honor. The outbreak of plague in the Broken Lands =
spread into the nation, the dwarves are blamed and expelled in the same =
year. The Great School of Magic is constructed between 845 and 875 AC. =
With a new immigration wave in 898 AC, frictions among the factions of =
Glantri decrease, and the population mixes more freely.
At some point the Elves of the Clan of Alhambra and their cousins from =
Alfheim come at odds with each other, and the Alfheim immigrants found =
their own clan, the Clan of Ellerovyn. This was, as far as I can tell, =
fairly recently, during Carlotina Erewan's rule (she was born in 911 =
AC). The Clan of Ellerovyn maintains good ties to Alfheim, and oppose =
the Clan of Alhambra, who are seen as "different".
>>The Five Shires: what major happenings were underway at this point in =
the shires?<<
>From GAZ8:
The Five Shires were well established by 700 AC, and have remained =
largely unchanged since 572 BC, when they were founded in their present =
state. There was an attempted invasion by Orcs in 700 AC, they were =
drawn into a trap and destroyed. Another battle with Orcs occurred in =
944 AC, and the Black Eagle Barony in Karameikos attempts invasions in =
989 AC. The Hin repel all attacks, however.
There! I hope this is useful. Don't hesitate to write me personally for =
more details on any of this. I'll try to find more time for you if you =
need it.
Jacob Skytte
scythe@wanadoo.dk
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 18:52:29 -0000
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From: Bob Dylan <bleakcabal@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Tome of Mystara
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>
> >Sorry if I ask...but any news about the Tome of Mystara?
>
>Not yet. IIRC, the release was scheduled to happen sometime in May, in
>large part depending on how much material had been submitted by then.
>
>Geoff
Sorry, but what is the Tome of Mystara, im a newbie to the list...
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 19:14:18 -0000
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From: Bob Dylan <bleakcabal@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: D&D modules
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Hi, I have never played the original D&D modules in Mystara. I have found
some over the net and over sites like Ebay and also some in mint conditions
at a hobby store ( tough there between 10 to 20 US dollars each for quest
and GAZ ) but I wonder if they are truly worth it. I once found in a hobby
store a used copy of X1 Isle of Dread for 25 cents ( Canadians, thats about
15 cents US ). It was in fairly good condition but I was disapointed as it
seemed nothing more than encounter tables.
I would like to buy the ones I have found but I wonder if they are worth it.
On Ebay theres a Red Arrow Black Shield for 45$ !!!
Could someone tell me which modules I should and should'nt buy ( for between
6 and 15 $ each US dollars ) ?
I was wondering about these also :
The Lost City
Legions of Thyatis
Arena of Thyatis
Earthshaker!
Castle Amber
Master of the Desert Nomads
Nightwail ( and the other 2 )
The Immortals quests ( IM1, 2, 3 )
Or should I wait for them to be released ESD by WoTC.
Also I have heard that Return to Keep of the Border Lands will be published
( or is published ) for 3E. Should I buy it ? Has it any revelance to
Mystara ???
Thank you for any reply you might send.
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 15:31:05 -0400
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From: John Shuell <shuell@BITSMART.COM>
Subject: Re: State of the Known World AC 700+
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Great info guys! Thank you so much for going through all that trouble.
Seems like my timeline is a bit skewed though. In order for the PC to
become a player in this as I originally intended, he would have to be alive
and in action around 560 AC. I basically wanted him to be the first of the
Shadow Elves that Alfheimers have seen, and when the Shadow Elves come
calling King Celedryl, the PC will already be involved with the monarch in
some personal (father/son) relationship with him. During the Shadow Elves
stay in Alfheim, one of them befriends the PC and works up the Players pride
in the Shadow Elves. When finally they demand more than they deserve and
Celedryl ousts them, the PC leaves with them, not knowing the full demands
they were asking, only that his adopted father turned his back on his real
family. In the end the PC visits the city of stars and tells the tales of
Alfheim to the Shadow Elves. They get every detail they can from him
without tipping the fact they intend to invade. In the end the PC will get
swept away by the Shadow Elves into the invasion against his adopted race. I
intend to squeeze every conflicting thought into this I can to make it
difficult on the Player to choose sides.
My biggest problem, is the timeline. Although not a huge problem, since the
PC is an Elf and can live the length of time needed, I need to stretch his
life and adventures out over centuries since this plot line is a major one,
and happens in between adventures elsewhere (that will build on this theme).
Starting him off in 560 doesnt give him much of a chance to live to AC 1000
+ does it?
John S
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jacob Skytte" <scythe@WANADOO.DK>
To: <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] State of the Known World AC 700+
> John Shuell <shuell@BITSMART.COM> wrote:
>
>
> >>Alfheim: Most important I need to know how Alfheim fairs in regards to
the Shadow Elves, have the two related races been in contact with each other
yet? What are some important events that happen in and around Alfheim over
the next three hundred years? Who is in control, and what major (or even
minor) political happenings are about to unfold for them? What of the many
clans, what are their differing traits and agendas?<<
>
> >From GAZ5:
> The Shadow Elves approached King Celedryl of Alfheim around the year 560
AC, demanding half of Alfheim and leadership of the nation in reparations
for the Alfheim Elves abandoning them. King Celedryl refused their demands.
Alfheim allied with Darokin and crushed the Shadow Elves who then attempted
to take Alfheim by force. The Shadow Elves were driven into the Broken Lands
and disappeared.
>
> In 600 AC the last of the Alfheim clans arrived in Alfheim; clan Feadiel,
who were driven from their lands by the mage Moorkroft (see module CM7 for
more info).
>
> In the following century the Shadow Elves infiltrated the Alfheim Elves,
but some of them came to adopt the Alfheim way of life, and revealed their
brethren to the Alfheim Elves. In 675 AC there was a great purge of Shadow
Elves from Alfheim, but it was only partly succesful. Shadow Elves have been
hiding among the Alfheim Elves ever since.
>
> In 700 AC Doriath is crowned as king of Alfheim. He remains king until the
fall of Alfheim during WotI.
>
> A brief description of the clans (write me personally if you need more
details, I'll try to find some time to help you out):
> Chossum: A mercantile clan; progressive, and interested in contact with
the other nations of the world.
> Erendyl: The artisan clan; their clothings and ornamentions are worth more
than others'. King Doriath is of Clan Erendyl.
> Feadiel: Over-achievers; over-react to prove their bravery, many wanderers
(Elves who leave Alfheim) come from this clan.
> Grunalf: Trackers and hunters; more so than the other clans.
> Long Runner: Good Treekeepers and wizards; isolationists.
> Mealidil: Want to keep Alfheim as it was in the old days, opposed to
change; have the finest library of Alfheim.
> Red Arrow: Militant warriors, very combat oriented.
>
> >>Darokin: Being so close Alfheim I imagine I will need as much detail
about this nation as Alfheim.<<
>
> >From GAZ11:
> Back in Darokin's past, the Alfheim Elves helped the humans fight the
Orcs, since they would rather have human for neighbours than Orcs. Darokin
became a kingdom for several hundred years. Between 501 and 504 AC Darokin
fought Alfheim, basically over misunderstandings. Darokin were unable to
conquer Alfheim, and let the issue drop, and so did the Elves, who saw it
all as a big game anyway. After more Orc trouble, where Corunglain fell in
523 AC, Darokin settled down. They had practically no relations with the
Alfheim Elves for centuries. By 650 AC the king of Darokin was practically
powerless, since each town was an independent power in itself. The last of
the Darokin Kings dies in 723 AC with no heirs.
>
> During the following two centuries, Darokin slowly grows in population.
Individual towns are powerful city-states, and some of them exert some
influence over neighbouring villages and smaller towns. These are the
present-day cities of Darokin, Akorros, Corunglain, and Selenica.
>
> Notable events: In 828 AC Glantri expels all dwarves, some settle in
Darokin. In 846 AC a huge force of Orcs loot and level the city of
Ardelphia; their bickering leads them to disband and return home afterwards.
Also during the early 800s, the Emirates of Ylaruam declare independence,
and several people loyal to the old rulers are exiled, many end up in
Darokin. Finally in 900 AC, Thyatis conquers Traladara (later to become
Karameikos), and many refugees from those lands find their way to Darokin.
>
> In 927 AC Darokin becomes a Republic, and the famous Darokin Diplomatic
Corps (DDC) was founded.
>
> >>The Broken Lands and the Orcs of Thar: Are any major forces accumulating
under any special personas in the Broken Lands for the next three hundred
years? How big of a threat is this area during this time (700 AC)?<<
>
> >From GAZ10:
> The Broken Lands are mostly in internal turmoil with in-fighting. There
may be some raids, but it is not until 800 AC that the humanoid hordes
become a true threat to neighbouring nations. The following period, known as
the Orcwars, sees humanoids plundering caravans, torching cities, and
generally ravaging their neighbours. In 846 AC they destroy Ardelphia in
Darokin. In the early 800s, there is also a great plague, which spreads into
Glantri. Eventually, in 975 AC, King Thar takes control of the Broken Lands.
>
> >>Traladara: What is this country, where was it based geographically and
how much political power did it weild in other nations? And what eventually
became of it?<<
> >>Karameikos: During this time which nation held the lands that are now
Karameikos?<<
>
> >From GAZ1:
> The lands that will become Karameikos belong to the Traladara. They live
in a number of independent villages. The village of Marilenev (later to
become Specularum and, later still, Mirros) is the most trade-oriented
village of these lands since 400 AC. In the year 900 AC Marilenev is
conquered by Thyatis, who lay claim to all of the Traladara region. They
rename Marilenev "Specularum". In 970 AC Stefan Karameikos trades his lands
for the lands of Traladara, renaming them "The Grand Duchy of Karameikos".
>
> Also in these lands are the Callarii Elves, a "lost tribe" of the ancient
Elven migration, cousins to the Alfheim Elves. They have been here since 0
AC.
>
> >>Flaemish: What country did these people belong to and where exactly in
modern Glantri did the country power seat reside? What beef did they have
with the incoming human and elven settlers to the area?<<
> >>Braejr: What nation is this?<<
> >>Glantri: What are the state of affairs for this nation, does it exist
yet?<<
>
> >From GAZ3:
> The Flaems colonize the area that will become known as Glantri in 395 AC.
They build their capital of Braejr in 450 AC at the site of present-day
Glantri City. They live there for centuries, warring with the Ethengar
hordes occasionally. In the early 700s several settlers come to the lands of
the Flaems, including Thyatians, Traladarans, and some Elves! The clan of
Alhambra arrived from far-away lands, and brought a splinter group of Clan
Erendyl of Alfheim with them. These new settlers cause frictions with the
Flaems. In 784 AC war breaks out between the Flaems and the new settlers. In
788 AC, the Flaems are defeated, the warlord Halzunthram captures their
lands and name them an Alphatian dominion. The Elves gain independence.
>
> In the early 800s, there is a gold rush, and many dwarves enter the lands
of Braejr. The Flaems have been revolting against Halzunthram since he took
over, and in 828 AC, they defeat him in an alliance with the Thyatian
settlers led by Lord Alexander Glantri. Braejr is renamed Glantri City in
his honor. The outbreak of plague in the Broken Lands spread into the
nation, the dwarves are blamed and expelled in the same year. The Great
School of Magic is constructed between 845 and 875 AC. With a new
immigration wave in 898 AC, frictions among the factions of Glantri
decrease, and the population mixes more freely.
>
> At some point the Elves of the Clan of Alhambra and their cousins from
Alfheim come at odds with each other, and the Alfheim immigrants found their
own clan, the Clan of Ellerovyn. This was, as far as I can tell, fairly
recently, during Carlotina Erewan's rule (she was born in 911 AC). The Clan
of Ellerovyn maintains good ties to Alfheim, and oppose the Clan of
Alhambra, who are seen as "different".
>
> >>The Five Shires: what major happenings were underway at this point in
the shires?<<
>
> >From GAZ8:
> The Five Shires were well established by 700 AC, and have remained largely
unchanged since 572 BC, when they were founded in their present state. There
was an attempted invasion by Orcs in 700 AC, they were drawn into a trap and
destroyed. Another battle with Orcs occurred in 944 AC, and the Black Eagle
Barony in Karameikos attempts invasions in 989 AC. The Hin repel all
attacks, however.
>
> There! I hope this is useful. Don't hesitate to write me personally for
more details on any of this. I'll try to find more time for you if you need
it.
>
> Jacob Skytte
> scythe@wanadoo.dk
>
> ********************************************************************
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> To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 22:07:25 +0200
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From: Jacob Skytte <scythe@WANADOO.DK>
Subject: Re: D&D modules
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Bob Dylan <bleakcabal@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
> Could someone tell me which modules I should and should'nt buy ( for =
between
> 6 and 15 $ each US dollars ) ?
Unless I'm mistaken, you can find reviews of the different modules on =
the official Mystara Site somewhere. I know I posted a few reviews of =
Companion adventures (the CM series), and had planned to do more but got =
caught up in other projects (happens all the time, unfortunately).
> I was wondering about these also :
> Legions of Thyatis
> Arena of Thyatis
These are decent. They were written after Dawn of the Emperors, so they =
should fit well with other Mystara material.
> Earthshaker!
Don't even think about paying for this unless it's for your collection. =
This is perhaps the worst adventure module ever written. If you disliked =
X1, you'll hate CM3. Trust me, it's bad!
> Castle Amber
If you can cope with the CD thing, then this adventure can be fun. It =
does need for certain events to have transpired (such as the Wrath of =
the Immortals), though you may be able to work around that.
> Master of the Desert Nomads
It isn't great. It should be used as part of a greater whole involving =
X5 and WotI. I don't think it's good on it's own.
> Nightwail ( and the other 2 )
These are pretty good, but do require you to want to play some Hollow =
World adventures. They are epic and well grounded in Mystara.
> The Immortals quests ( IM1, 2, 3 )
Don't bother. You won't be able to play these unless you've got Immortal =
PCs, and even if you do, they aren't that good. And they certainly don't =
add much of anything to Mystara.
Jacob Skytte
scythe@wanadoo.dk
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 22:32:12 +0200
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From: Jacob Skytte <scythe@WANADOO.DK>
Subject: Re: State of the Known World AC 700+
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John Shuell <shuell@BITSMART.COM> wrote:
> Great info guys! Thank you so much for going through all that =
trouble.
No problem.
<erratic snipping commences>
> Seems like my timeline is a bit skewed though. =20
Perhaps. Though the Shadow Elves did attempt a failed invasion in 560 =
AC, they will, of course, still succeed during the events of WotI in =
1007 AC.
> In order for the PC to
> become a player in this as I originally intended, he would have to be =
alive
> and in action around 560 AC. I basically wanted him to be the first =
of the
> Shadow Elves that Alfheimers have seen
That might be a problem if you intend to strictly follow the canon =
timeline. I suggest that you move the events concerning the Shadow Elves =
in Alfheim two centuries forward in time for your own campaign, and if =
you feel the need for Darokin to have had a military alliance with =
Alfheim around 560 AC, make the antagonists humanoids from the Broken =
Lands.
> I
> intend to squeeze every conflicting thought into this I can to make it
> difficult on the Player to choose sides.
You seem like a nasty evil DM. I like.
> My biggest problem, is the timeline. Although not a huge problem, =
since the
> PC is an Elf and can live the length of time needed, I need to stretch =
his
> life and adventures out over centuries since this plot line is a major =
one,
> and happens in between adventures elsewhere (that will build on this =
theme).
> Starting him off in 560 doesnt give him much of a chance to live to AC =
1000
> + does it?
Elves are "adolescent" at age 20-100. They typically live to be between =
600 and 800 years old, though some have lived for a full millenium. If =
you really want to strictly follow the timeline, you can have him start =
out as an adolescent, and he'll be growing old (500 or so) at the =
millenium. He can still reasonably expect to live for a few more =
centuries. Whether he can survive adventuring for 500 years is, of =
course, another matter entirely... You will need to have a century pass =
quickly now and then, I suppose. Have him marry and settle down for a =
century, then have horrible things happen to his family to get him back =
to adventuring. Have him involved in studying magic (or fighting) for a =
few decades. Have him study, or better yet, infiltrate a society over =
the course of a long time, Codename Nina/La Femme Nikita-style. It will =
make sense, and your player should hopefully understand. I remember in =
the good old days, when I got to be a player, not always a DM, that my =
Halfling characters often settled down for a few years or a decade, =
which we just skipped, or role-played for a short session, before major =
events brought them back to active adventuring.
Jacob Skytte
scythe@wanadoo.dk
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 22:37:57 +0200
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
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From: thibault sarlat <thibsylv@CLUB-INTERNET.FR>
Subject: Re: D&D modules
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the lost city can be seen as a hack and slash module if not reworked and
deepened but its possibilities are big.
and it usually fit any desertic area...
i'll go also for X4 (and X5 if possible)
Castle Amber is a fraud even if i love Glantri and the d'ambreville (easy
Bruce, easy!!!!)unless you work a lot on it
the 3 HW modules are fine (but then you have to introduce the HW to your
players).
I also like the CM3 even if i have never played it or have it played...
as for the IM modules, well unless your party is of immortal level....
hope this help
Thibault Sarlat.
ICQ 16622177.
homepage http://www.mystara.fr.st
Join me at: thibsylv@club-internet.fr
or at clenarius@hotmail.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Dylan <bleakcabal@HOTMAIL.COM>
To: <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 9:14 PM
Subject: [MYSTARA] D&D modules
> Hi, I have never played the original D&D modules in Mystara. I have found
> some over the net and over sites like Ebay and also some in mint
conditions
> at a hobby store ( tough there between 10 to 20 US dollars each for quest
> and GAZ ) but I wonder if they are truly worth it. I once found in a hobby
> store a used copy of X1 Isle of Dread for 25 cents ( Canadians, thats
about
> 15 cents US ). It was in fairly good condition but I was disapointed as it
> seemed nothing more than encounter tables.
>
> I would like to buy the ones I have found but I wonder if they are worth
it.
> On Ebay theres a Red Arrow Black Shield for 45$ !!!
>
> Could someone tell me which modules I should and should'nt buy ( for
between
> 6 and 15 $ each US dollars ) ?
>
> I was wondering about these also :
> The Lost City
> Legions of Thyatis
> Arena of Thyatis
> Earthshaker!
> Castle Amber
> Master of the Desert Nomads
> Nightwail ( and the other 2 )
> The Immortals quests ( IM1, 2, 3 )
>
>
> Or should I wait for them to be released ESD by WoTC.
>
>
> Also I have heard that Return to Keep of the Border Lands will be
published
> ( or is published ) for 3E. Should I buy it ? Has it any revelance to
> Mystara ???
>
>
> Thank you for any reply you might send.
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
> ********************************************************************
> The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp
> The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/
> To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
> with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message.
>
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 16:48:38 -0400
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From: SteelAngel <edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU>
Subject: Re: D&D modules
In-Reply-To: <002601c0d0eb$8e7b2160$1cee61d4@skytte>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Sun, 29 Apr 2001, Jacob Skytte wrote:
> > Earthshaker!
>
> Don't even think about paying for this unless it's for your
> collection. This is perhaps the worst adventure module ever written. If
> you disliked X1, you'll hate CM3. Trust me, it's bad!
It's worse. The only good thing about it is the earthshaker itself, and
only because I used the basic idea for my fan work.
> > The Immortals quests ( IM1, 2, 3 )
>
> Don't bother. You won't be able to play these unless you've got
> Immortal PCs, and even if you do, they aren't that good. And they
> certainly don't add much of anything to Mystara.
Not really. For Gods' quests they aren't too too bad. But then again, when
you have reached _ultimate_ power, it's really hard to come up with good
adventures.
Ethan
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 21:04:09 -0000
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From: Bob Dylan <bleakcabal@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: D&D modules
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
>Unless I'm mistaken, you can find reviews of the different modules on the
>official Mystara Site somewhere. I know I posted a few reviews of Companion
>adventures (the CM series), and had planned to do more but got caught up in
>other projects (happens all the time, unfortunately).
You mean on the Vaults Of Pandius site ??? I looked under Products and
Random but there doesn't seem to be anything akin to reviews of the
products. There is a product list also.
So if I all gather what your saying, the adventures themselves are not that
memorable... I always found old AD&D adventures nothing more than glorified
hack-fest also. The new ones, espacially the Plane Scape ones are so much
better tough. It seems it took sometime for D&D quests to evolve into
something more.
Take Call of Cthulhu for exemple, SOME of the old quests are so GREAT ! And
I know a store where you can buy all the out of print adventure books new,
mint condition for about 20 canadian dollars, ( this is less than 15 US
dollars ). Each book is about 100-120 pages long.
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 21:12:31 -0000
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From: Bob Dylan <bleakcabal@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: State of the Known World AC 700+
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>I remember in the good old days, when I got to be a player, not always a
>DM, that my Halfling characters often settled down for a few years or a
>decade, which we just skipped, or role-played for a short session, before
>major events brought them back to active adventuring.
>
I think at some point this is necassary. I once ran a campaign with 1 or 2
players depending when the second one was available. I was then young and an
inexperienced DM, he was looking for quests and adventures everyday. I
leveled so fast ! It didnt make sense, wasn't possible, etc.
In a latter campaign with other players ( a mystara campaign ), a character
had a baby with an NPC, some characters bought a house, etc. Sometimes I
would tell them they wanted to "stay put" enjoy all the gold they found and
relax in luxury for a few months until something big happened.
At this point IMC the players were getting high level and were just
adventuring because something great that affected something/someone they
knew happened. They weren't looking for random trouble anywhere in the Known
World anymore. And I think that makes sense.
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 07:12:58 +1000
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From: shawn stanley <stanles@ALPHALINK.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: D&D modules
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 21:04 29/04/01 -0000, you wrote:
>>
>>Unless I'm mistaken, you can find reviews of the different modules on the
>>official Mystara Site somewhere. I know I posted a few reviews of Companion
>>adventures (the CM series), and had planned to do more but got caught up in
>>other projects (happens all the time, unfortunately).
>
>You mean on the Vaults Of Pandius site ??? I looked under Products and
>Random but there doesn't seem to be anything akin to reviews of the
>products. There is a product list also.
try http://thing.slashnull.org/review/
shawn stanley
http://dnd.starflung.com
what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me
- mightyfew, "i can't wait"
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 17:21:35 -0400
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From: John Shuell <shuell@BITSMART.COM>
Subject: Re: State of the Known World AC 700+
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That makes sense, and I have used it in the past. But one thing I always
conveniently ignored was the long life spans of the elves and other ancient
races. If you live 500+ years and adventure not even 1/3 of that timeframe,
you could/would be double the power or level any human could possibly reach.
How do you guys deal with that? Or am I best to leave that stone uncovered?
John S
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Dylan" <bleakcabal@HOTMAIL.COM>
To: <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] State of the Known World AC 700+
> >I remember in the good old days, when I got to be a player, not always a
> >DM, that my Halfling characters often settled down for a few years or a
> >decade, which we just skipped, or role-played for a short session, before
> >major events brought them back to active adventuring.
> >
>
> I think at some point this is necassary. I once ran a campaign with 1 or 2
> players depending when the second one was available. I was then young and
an
> inexperienced DM, he was looking for quests and adventures everyday. I
> leveled so fast ! It didnt make sense, wasn't possible, etc.
>
> In a latter campaign with other players ( a mystara campaign ), a
character
> had a baby with an NPC, some characters bought a house, etc. Sometimes I
> would tell them they wanted to "stay put" enjoy all the gold they found
and
> relax in luxury for a few months until something big happened.
>
> At this point IMC the players were getting high level and were just
> adventuring because something great that affected something/someone they
> knew happened. They weren't looking for random trouble anywhere in the
Known
> World anymore. And I think that makes sense.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
> ********************************************************************
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 21:31:23 -0000
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From: Bob Dylan <bleakcabal@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: State of the Known World AC 700+
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
>That makes sense, and I have used it in the past. But one thing I always
>conveniently ignored was the long life spans of the elves and other ancient
>races. If you live 500+ years and adventure not even 1/3 of that
>timeframe,
>you could/would be double the power or level any human could possibly
>reach.
>How do you guys deal with that? Or am I best to leave that stone
>uncovered?
>
>John S
>
That's an easy one, humans are more adventurous, more motivated, more
"power-hungry". While most elves are more comtemplative, passive and look at
things from the long runs. Most of them with their outlook on life ( which
is so because of their life-span ) prefer their current method of living and
looking at things. Also living 2 times more and adventuring 2 time more
means you can get killed 2 two times more and why loose the 700 other years
of your life attacking some bandits for some human baron who will die and be
replaced countless times during your lifetime. Anyway won't these bandits
die pretty soon ( to an elf )? Or if not even if they die of old age this
will only take about 30-40 years.
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 17:50:36 -0400
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From: John Shuell <shuell@BITSMART.COM>
Subject: Re: D&D modules
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Ok, which were everyones favorites than, modules which were well written,
had a purpose in the Mystara timeline and really forwarded
personalities/areas of the Known world?
John S
----- Original Message -----
From: "thibault sarlat" <thibsylv@CLUB-INTERNET.FR>
To: <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] D&D modules
> the lost city can be seen as a hack and slash module if not reworked and
> deepened but its possibilities are big.
> and it usually fit any desertic area...
>
> i'll go also for X4 (and X5 if possible)
>
> Castle Amber is a fraud even if i love Glantri and the d'ambreville (easy
> Bruce, easy!!!!)unless you work a lot on it
>
> the 3 HW modules are fine (but then you have to introduce the HW to your
> players).
>
> I also like the CM3 even if i have never played it or have it played...
>
> as for the IM modules, well unless your party is of immortal level....
>
> hope this help
>
>
> Thibault Sarlat.
> ICQ 16622177.
> homepage http://www.mystara.fr.st
> Join me at: thibsylv@club-internet.fr
> or at clenarius@hotmail.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Dylan <bleakcabal@HOTMAIL.COM>
> To: <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 9:14 PM
> Subject: [MYSTARA] D&D modules
>
>
> > Hi, I have never played the original D&D modules in Mystara. I have
found
> > some over the net and over sites like Ebay and also some in mint
> conditions
> > at a hobby store ( tough there between 10 to 20 US dollars each for
quest
> > and GAZ ) but I wonder if they are truly worth it. I once found in a
hobby
> > store a used copy of X1 Isle of Dread for 25 cents ( Canadians, thats
> about
> > 15 cents US ). It was in fairly good condition but I was disapointed as
it
> > seemed nothing more than encounter tables.
> >
> > I would like to buy the ones I have found but I wonder if they are worth
> it.
> > On Ebay theres a Red Arrow Black Shield for 45$ !!!
> >
> > Could someone tell me which modules I should and should'nt buy ( for
> between
> > 6 and 15 $ each US dollars ) ?
> >
> > I was wondering about these also :
> > The Lost City
> > Legions of Thyatis
> > Arena of Thyatis
> > Earthshaker!
> > Castle Amber
> > Master of the Desert Nomads
> > Nightwail ( and the other 2 )
> > The Immortals quests ( IM1, 2, 3 )
> >
> >
> > Or should I wait for them to be released ESD by WoTC.
> >
> >
> > Also I have heard that Return to Keep of the Border Lands will be
> published
> > ( or is published ) for 3E. Should I buy it ? Has it any revelance to
> > Mystara ???
> >
> >
> > Thank you for any reply you might send.
> >
_________________________________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
http://www.hotmail.com.
> >
> > ********************************************************************
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> > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message.
> >
>
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 15:31:55 -0700
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From: Patrick Sullivan <pds3@DANA.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Re: D&D modules
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>Hi, I have never played the original D&D modules in Mystara. I have found
>some over the net and over sites like Ebay and also some in mint conditions
>at a hobby store ( tough there between 10 to 20 US dollars each for quest
>and GAZ ) but I wonder if they are truly worth it. I once found in a hobby
>store a used copy of X1 Isle of Dread for 25 cents ( Canadians, thats about
>15 cents US ). It was in fairly good condition but I was disapointed as it
>seemed nothing more than encounter tables.
If you felt that X1 wasn't worth 25 cents (IMO it's worth that even if you
use just one wilderness encounter or new monster from it) then I definitely
don't think you want to spend more than a couple dollars on any adventure.
I guess it really depends on your campaign and your personal preferences.
>I would like to buy the ones I have found but I wonder if they are worth
it.
>On Ebay theres a Red Arrow Black Shield for 45$ !!!
This is definitely among the best adventures IF you DM (or would like to)
mainly/only in Mystara. It provides the first details of many of the KW's
countries, it fits well in WotI, and it's awesome when combined with X4 and
X5. Then again, I bought the only copy that I've ever even seen at a
small-town bookstore for $8, so I'm not sure it's really worth quite that
much.
>Could someone tell me which modules I should and should'nt buy ( for
between
>6 and 15 $ each US dollars ) ?
Personally I'd recommend X2, X10, X11, and any of the M-series in that price
range. Some others, like X3, X12 or Rahasia, are well-worth the lower end
of these prices, but I personally wouldn't recommend spending $15 on them.
The Gazetteers and Creature Crucibles (PC1-4) are all more worthwhile,
though, in my opinion.
>I was wondering about these also :
>The Lost City
It has potential, but IMO it's not among the best even if you spend some
time reworking it.
>Legions of Thyatis
>Arena of Thyatis
I forget which of these I have, but I was pretty disappointed with the one I
own.
>Earthshaker!
Unless you have a player who's very interested in gnomes, don't spend more
than pocket change for this.
>Castle Amber
If you can get it within your stated price range, it's worth it. It's best,
IMO, if you work to combine it with Mark of Amber, its much-later sequel
(and a 2nd Ed. cd adventure). It, too, needs some work, but it's definitely
a fun adventure with a lot of potential.
>Master of the Desert Nomads
Not great as a stand-alone, but excellent with X5 and X10 and/or WotI.
>Nightwail ( and the other 2 )
>The Immortals quests ( IM1, 2, 3 )
Don't really know.
>Or should I wait for them to be released ESD by WoTC.
I'd say it depends on how much money you're willing to spend and how
desperately you want them.
>Also I have heard that Return to Keep of the Border Lands will be published
>( or is published ) for 3E. Should I buy it ? Has it any revelance to
>Mystara ???
It was published for 2nd Ed. AD&D. I haven't heard anything about another
re-release, but who knows. It's set in Greyhawk. It's not too hard to
convert it to Mystara, but it's also not especially worthwhile IMHO.
Patrick
((back to lurking))
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 23:00:38 -0000
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From: Bob Dylan <bleakcabal@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: D&D modules
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>If you felt that X1 wasn't worth 25 cents (IMO it's worth that even if you
>use just one wilderness encounter or new monster from it) then I definitely
>don't think you want to spend more than a couple dollars on any adventure.
>I guess it really depends on your campaign and your personal preferences.
>
I was disapointed, but for 25 cents it was worth it of course. But i was
disapointed with the module, I would not have spent 10 $ on it. Given the
chance to do it all again I would buy it and for more than 25 cents :)
>It was published for 2nd Ed. AD&D. I haven't heard anything about another
>re-release, but who knows. It's set in Greyhawk. It's not too hard to
>convert it to Mystara, but it's also not especially worthwhile IMHO.
>
It will be published for 3E, I was led to beleive it was Mystara specific.
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 18:31:19 -0700
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From: The Stalker <alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM>
Subject: Re: Tome of Mystara
On Sun, 29 Apr 2001 18:52:29 -0000, Bob Dylan <bleakcabal@HOTMAIL.COM>
wrote:
>>
>> >Sorry if I ask...but any news about the Tome of Mystara?
>>
>>Not yet. IIRC, the release was scheduled to happen sometime in May, in
>>large part depending on how much material had been submitted by then.
>>
>>Geoff
>
>
>Sorry, but what is the Tome of Mystara, im a newbie to the list...
>
It's a net-publication dedicated to new articles, adventures, and such for
Mystara.
You can find it on <http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome/>
(Although issue one is currently unavailable IIRC).
Unfortunately the Tome announced that it would be cancelled with the next
issue, but they wanted to go out with a bang, so it should be a pretty nice
issue... It's still a major blow that it'll be cancelled though :(
- The Stalker
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 01:58:43 -0000
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From: Angelo Bertolli <abertoll@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: State of the Known World AC 700+
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
What about players who play elven characters? That's proof right there that
there are at least SOME elves who are very adventurous. And plus, most
people have very active elves in their campaign.
I always thought the real answer was because they were races that were added
later. I don't think the original game design had intended them to be
options. They thought everyone wanted to be human, and only minor roles
would be played by the others. Plus, the game balance of the whole thing
requires limited levels. In the early days of gaming, it was less
role-playing and more just dungeon crawling. Of course if elves could fight
AND cast magic AND go up to level 40, they'd kick everything else's butt. I
think they noticed this after a while. In lower levels, the extra
experience required makes up for this. However, as the game continued, not
only did they realize it was out of balance, but that some DMs were keeping
characters on generally the same level (esp at higher levels).
>From: Bob Dylan <bleakcabal@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
>To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
>Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] State of the Known World AC 700+
>Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 21:31:23 -0000
>
>>
>>That makes sense, and I have used it in the past. But one thing I always
>>conveniently ignored was the long life spans of the elves and other
>>ancient
>>races. If you live 500+ years and adventure not even 1/3 of that
>>timeframe,
>>you could/would be double the power or level any human could possibly
>>reach.
>>How do you guys deal with that? Or am I best to leave that stone
>>uncovered?
>>
>>John S
>>
>
>
>That's an easy one, humans are more adventurous, more motivated, more
>"power-hungry". While most elves are more comtemplative, passive and look
>at
>things from the long runs. Most of them with their outlook on life ( which
>is so because of their life-span ) prefer their current method of living
>and
>looking at things. Also living 2 times more and adventuring 2 time more
>means you can get killed 2 two times more and why loose the 700 other years
>of your life attacking some bandits for some human baron who will die and
>be
>replaced countless times during your lifetime. Anyway won't these bandits
>die pretty soon ( to an elf )? Or if not even if they die of old age this
>will only take about 30-40 years.
>_________________________________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 02:00:21 -0000
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From: Angelo Bertolli <abertoll@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: D&D modules
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I thought lost city was an excellent module and allowed the DM to do alot of
interpretation and add alot to it himself. It sets a campaign up nicely.
>From: Bob Dylan <bleakcabal@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
>To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
>Subject: [MYSTARA] D&D modules
>Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 19:14:18 -0000
>
>Hi, I have never played the original D&D modules in Mystara. I have found
>some over the net and over sites like Ebay and also some in mint conditions
>at a hobby store ( tough there between 10 to 20 US dollars each for quest
>and GAZ ) but I wonder if they are truly worth it. I once found in a hobby
>store a used copy of X1 Isle of Dread for 25 cents ( Canadians, thats about
>15 cents US ). It was in fairly good condition but I was disapointed as it
>seemed nothing more than encounter tables.
>
>I would like to buy the ones I have found but I wonder if they are worth
>it.
>On Ebay theres a Red Arrow Black Shield for 45$ !!!
>
>Could someone tell me which modules I should and should'nt buy ( for
>between
>6 and 15 $ each US dollars ) ?
>
>I was wondering about these also :
>The Lost City
>Legions of Thyatis
>Arena of Thyatis
>Earthshaker!
>Castle Amber
>Master of the Desert Nomads
>Nightwail ( and the other 2 )
>The Immortals quests ( IM1, 2, 3 )
>
>
>Or should I wait for them to be released ESD by WoTC.
>
>
>Also I have heard that Return to Keep of the Border Lands will be published
>( or is published ) for 3E. Should I buy it ? Has it any revelance to
>Mystara ???
>
>
>Thank you for any reply you might send.
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 11:15:57 +0200
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From: Jacob Skytte <scythe@WANADOO.DK>
Subject: Re: D&D modules
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John Shuell <shuell@BITSMART.COM> wrote:
> Ok, which were everyones favorites than, modules which were well =
written,
> had a purpose in the Mystara timeline and really forwarded
> personalities/areas of the Known world?
You must remember that most of the modules were written well before =
Mystara became a coherent whole. This does tend to make the adventures =
seem to fit badly in Mystara if you use the GAZs and such. Often you =
will find that you have to work with things a bit to make everything fit =
nicely. Some of the modules served as inspiration for the later products =
and these are generally nice. From the modules I own/have played, these =
come to mind as the better ones:
Basic level (1-3)
There are none that I would recommend. And before you people assault me =
with battering rams, I've never played and don't own B10 Night's Dark =
Terror, which may be the best Mystara module of them all.
Expert level (4-14)
O2 Blade of Vengeance
This requires a lot of work, I think. It's meant for a single Elf =
character, which might be your thing, though. And I seem to recall that =
it was fun. It doesn't do a lot for Mystara, though.
X10 Red Arrow, Black Shield
This is the definite precursor for the GAZs (even if a lot of details =
were altered in the GAZs). It made the Mystaran Known World a coherent =
area, then shook it up with a huge war. The war thing can be bothersome, =
if you don't like wargames; I thought it was fun. Use this with Wrath of =
the Immortals for best value.
X11 Saga of the Shadow Lord
Detailing the areas between the Known World and Norwold, this adventure =
is fun and challenging, and could become important, when the Alfheim =
Elves flee to the north after WotI.
X13 Crown of Ancient Glory
A bit of detailing Vestland and it's king in a nice adventure that takes =
place around 975 AC according to Almanac 1010. Good plot.
Wrath of the Immortals boxed set
I've put it among the Expert adventures, since that's where most of the =
action will take place. Whatever you may think of the specifics of the =
adventure, it does shake up the world, and the info on the Immortals of =
Mystara is great. Use X10 to flesh out the war.
Companion level (15-25)
CM1 Test of the Warlords
While this contains more adventure outlines than actual adventure, it =
does set the stage nicely for Norwold. It assumes that your PCs are =
carving dominions out of Norwold though, and removes them from the nexus =
of events in the Known World.
CM2 Death's Ride
I really enjoyed the initial suspense of this adventure, which has you =
exploring a dominion of Norwold. The opposition is tough, and the =
adventure doesn't add much to Mystara, though.
CM9 Legacy of Blood
I've got a thing for adventures that involve dominion managing. This =
time, the PCs gain control of a dominion in Darokin, near the Alfheim =
border. They'll have to be decent rulers, while dealing with all kinds =
of trouble and defeating a larger evil plot.
Master level (26-36)
M3 Twilight Calling
This has absolutely nothing to do with Mystara, really. I just give it =
honorary mention, because it's so damn crazy. This certainly may not be =
for you, but I truly loved playing through it as a player, if only for =
the great, great challenge.
M4 Five Coins For A Kingdom
It's enjoyable, but mostly takes place in an Outer Plane that is =
generally uninvolved with Mystara.
M5 Talons of Night
This is the best module that I've played and DMed. Help Norwold by =
travelling to Thothia on the Isle of Dawn, and beyond, into strange =
Outer Planes. Great story, fun to play, and awesome pre-rolled =
characters.
All levels:
The Poor Wizard's Almanacs 1010-1012
These are the best for info on Mystara, and for a whole bunch of =
adventure ideas. The Net Almanacs created by fans after the line was =
discontinued, you can even get for free.
Jacob Skytte
scythe@wanadoo.dk
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 11:19:28 +0200
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From: Jacob Skytte <scythe@WANADOO.DK>
Subject: Re: D&D modules
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I wrote:
> > Castle Amber
If you can cope with the CD thing, then this adventure can be fun. It =
does need for certain events to have transpired (such as the Wrath of =
the Immortals), though you may be able to work around that.<<
Oh, sorry. That was Mark of Amber; I screwed up. I don't have Castle =
Amber, so I don't know much of anything about it.
>> Earthshaker!
Don't even think about paying for this unless it's for your collection. =
This is perhaps the worst adventure module ever written. If you disliked =
X1, you'll hate CM3. Trust me, it's bad!<<
And that should of course, be CM4 not CM3, which is Sabre River. =
Earthshaker! is still the worst adventure imaginable, though. Yes, =
Ethan, you're right, it's even worse than that. But, hey, I reviewed it, =
so you can find my review at the link Shawn pointed out. I doubt that I =
had few good things to say about it...
Jacob Skytte
scythe@wanadoo.dk
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 07:53:49 -0500
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From: Mischa Gelman <mgelman@CITY-NET.COM>
Subject: Re: D&D modules
In-Reply-To: <F131jnzi95HfqR77bie0000a0c9@hotmail.com>
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On Sun, 29 Apr 2001, Bob Dylan wrote:
> The Lost City
Fair. The basic setting can be made into a long-running campaign, with the
use of the Lost City supplement done by Geoff Gander and other denizens of
this list. You need to do a lot of rationalizing to make the monsters fit
in half of the temple though, as that area was left up to the DM to
develop, and some are rather difficult to explain.
> Earthshaker!
Poor. I really don't see much use for this module, which consists of
several combats inside a giant machine and doesn't have much of a plot.
> The Immortals quests ( IM1, 2, 3 )
IM3 is the worst of the group by far, and I wouldn't recommend buying
it. IM1 has some really interesting premises (most noticeably, a trip to
modern Earth) and is fairly worthwhile, plus has some nice logic
problems. IM2 is more of a typical adventure, mostly combat, some
reasoning and at least a fair amount of role-playing required. As immortal
adventures are harder to design, I'd pay for it, if your characters are of
suitable level.
- Mischa
As we look out on the human condition, our consciences cannot be clean. If
they are clean, then it is because we do not use them enough. - Abba Eban
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 07:09:25 -0600
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From: ramhog <ramhog@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject: Re: D&D modules
In-Reply-To: <001301c0d0ec$4824bb80$43b5fea9@duke>
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>the lost city can be seen as a hack and slash module if not reworked and
>deepened but its possibilities are big.
>and it usually fit any desertic area...
>
I know the module says it could possibly be set in Ylaruam, but that
just doesn't seem quite right to me. Is there an official (or better
recommended) place where this adventure is set?
VVH
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 07:31:15 -0600
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From: ramhog <ramhog@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject: Re: D&D modules
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0104291641180.15094-100000@antares.phys.clemson.edu>
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>
>Not really. For Gods' quests they aren't too too bad. But then again, when
>you have reached _ultimate_ power, it's really hard to come up with good
>adventures.
>
>
Then you, my friend, aren't reading enough comic books. lol
Seriously, they're a great source for over-the-top hoo-ha adventures.
Here's a few I'd recommend:
These are "god" comics with a superhero bent (and are all the spawn
of Jack "King" Kirby)-
Thor
Eternals
New Gods
Orion
These are superhero books with a "godlike" bent-
JLA (recent series)
The Authority
The Eternals and the New Gods have been out of print since the 70's.
You might be able to find Eternals cheap and New Gods (original
series) has been reprinted in an inexpensive b&w format. Of all those
listed, Orion and The Authority are probably the best reads for
modern tastes, but all of them (at one time or another) are worth
checking out.
VVH
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 07:49:41 -0600
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From: ramhog <ramhog@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject: Re: State of the Known World AC 700+
In-Reply-To: <007a01c0d0e2$ef817940$9f974842@kitchen>
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Has anyone mentioned that GAZ13 The Shadow Elves (sans maps and
updated to AD&D 2e, I believe) is available for download from the
Wizards site?
VVH
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:09:04 -0400
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From: Geoff Gander <au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: D&D modules
>I know the module says it could possibly be set in Ylaruam, but that
>just doesn't seem quite right to me. Is there an official (or better
>recommended) place where this adventure is set?
>
>VVH
Somewhere in the Expert rulebook (the blue one) there is a map of the
Known World, and all the B-level modules were given explicit locations.
B4 was placed in southwestern Ylaruam, near Parsa if you look at the Gaz
map for comparison.
Geoff
--
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Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon
Carnifex Loremaster
au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 17:41:51 -0000
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
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From: Angelo Bertolli <abertoll@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Mailing List GAZ
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Is there a section on the Mystara page that lists all the GAZ, for different
cultures?
Would anyone be willing to write a GAZ for the Quariks? I think it would
make a good addition, but maybe no one really cares about them.
Angelo
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 14:15:33 -0600
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
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From: ramhog <ramhog@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject: Re: Mailing List GAZ
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>
Would anyone be willing to write a GAZ for the Quariks?
This brings up something I'd wondered about recently- has Vaults of
Pandius or the MML given up on the idea of producing Gazetteers? I
read about people developing this area or that, but nothing (that I
recall) in the form of a GAZ. I'm talking about the same physical
format- players book, DM's book, map, bi-fold cover, etc. I don't
mean that it would have to be printed, of course, just that it would
look as close to the old material as possible in an electronic (i.e.
Acrobat) form.
So, are they out there somewhere and if not, why not?
VVH
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 15:01:59 -0400
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From: Christopher Cherrington
<christopher.cherrington@OVERSEASSERVICE.COM>
Subject: Re: Mailing List GAZ
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>
Would anyone be willing to write a GAZ for the Quariks?
This brings up something I'd wondered about recently- has Vaults of
Pandius or the MML given up on the idea of producing Gazetteers? I
read about people developing this area or that, but nothing (that I
recall) in the form of a GAZ. I'm talking about the same physical
format- players book, DM's book, map, bi-fold cover, etc. I don't
mean that it would have to be printed, of course, just that it would
look as close to the old material as possible in an electronic (i.e.
Acrobat) form.
This also brings up another question, I know Wendar and the Heldann
Freeholds, were in production for a GAZ; but they never made it to print
(what happened to Bruce?)
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 14:42:41 -0500
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From: Aaron E Nowack <anowack@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Mailing List GAZ
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On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 14:15:33 -0600 ramhog <ramhog@PRODIGY.NET> writes:
> So, are they out there somewhere and if not, why not?
The closest I know of is the HWRs that have been made.
As to why there aren't more? Because they are a lot of work, that's why.
It can take a lot of time and effort just to do an almanac-style entry,
much less a full Gaz with maps and such.
Aaron Nowack
"Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis."
http://www.geocities.com/anowack/
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 21:59:53 +0200
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
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From: thibault sarlat <thibsylv@CLUB-INTERNET.FR>
Subject: Re: Mailing List GAZ
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as for the map, it's already done....
Thibault Sarlat.
ICQ 16622177.
homepage http://www.mystara.fr.st
Join me at: thibsylv@club-internet.fr
or at clenarius@hotmail.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Aaron E Nowack <anowack@JUNO.COM>
To: <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Mailing List GAZ
> On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 14:15:33 -0600 ramhog <ramhog@PRODIGY.NET> writes:
> > So, are they out there somewhere and if not, why not?
>
> The closest I know of is the HWRs that have been made.
>
> As to why there aren't more? Because they are a lot of work, that's why.
> It can take a lot of time and effort just to do an almanac-style entry,
> much less a full Gaz with maps and such.
>
>
> Aaron Nowack
> "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis."
> http://www.geocities.com/anowack/
> ________________________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 13:04:11 -0700
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From: Chris Furneaux <c_furneaux@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Mailing List GAZ
In-Reply-To: <71E277A7F4FCD2118A700008C79F72558915B2@JOSHUA>
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> This brings up something I'd wondered about
> recently- has Vaults of
> Pandius or the MML given up on the idea of producing
> Gazetteers? I
> read about people developing this area or that, but
> nothing (that I
> recall) in the form of a GAZ. I'm talking about the
> same physical
> format- players book, DM's book, map, bi-fold cover,
> etc. I don't
> mean that it would have to be printed, of course,
> just that it would
> look as close to the old material as possible in an
> electronic (i.e.
> Acrobat) form.
This is what I hope will happen eventually for the
newbie guide format. Players, DM's, Map, covers. I
think what is underway is primarially for DM's to give
there players. But we shall have to see. It does take
a lot of work and not just in infomation but in
artistry, and editing. Every year the almanac gets
closser and closser to an original and highly
proffessional looking document. I've been highly
impressed. This year with the much more substantial
art team we should see a even more spectacular
document.
As far as gaz's go the cindicia (can't spell it) gaz
came through with a hell of a lot of matterial, and
there have been many other impressive works, but
generally they all center on infomation and not
presentation. Which is understandable. Most people I
imagine have a high degree of creativity but do not
concider their drawing up to scratch, and focus there
creativity into text wich can be translated directly
into use. I think there would be little objection to
the reformatting of completed projects into a flashier
format, but it requires people who want to do it. I've
though about it, but uni always catches up.
I must admit a good guide to the existing net
matterial is a difficult thing to compile, because how
do you present it and what do you include or not.
There are no really clear ways to decide this that I
can see. Most of the stuff that comes through here is
so impressive anyway.
Chris.
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:19:28 -0500
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
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From: Mischa Gelman <mgelman@CITY-NET.COM>
Subject: Re: State of the Known World AC 700+
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> I always thought the real answer was because they were races that were added
> later.
If they were added later, it was darned early on. Both the '78 AD&D
Players Handbook and the '80 D&D Basic Rulebook both include elves,
dwarves and halflings as character options (and the AD&D book also
includes gnomes, half-elves and half-orcs). Also, the first D&D campaign
ever, that of Blackmoor, has quite a few elven characters of importance,
so they may have been around from day one as player options.
> options. They thought everyone wanted to be human, and only minor roles
> would be played by the others.
Considering that fantasy literature had always included "others" as heros
and heroines, I can definitely see the originators as having included such
options. The LOTR influence is rather prominent and in that series both
an elf and a dwarf were included with the hobbits and humans as the
prominent "good guys."
> experience required makes up for this. However, as the game continued, not
> only did they realize it was out of balance, but that some DMs were keeping
> characters on generally the same level (esp at higher levels).
I don't think they wanted total balance in a combat sense. If so, why
include halflings (max level 8, limited equipment, no major special
abilities, d6 HP/level) when you already have dwarves (max level 12,
limited [but a wider array of] equipment, similar abilities, d8
HP/level) and fighters (max level 36, no limit on equipment, no major
special abilities, d8 HP/level). Does anyone seriously think thieves are
balanced with the other classes? I just don't think they realized how
hack-n-slash/min-max some gamers tended to be, which eventually created a
need for a more balanced setup.
- Mischa
As we look out on the human condition, our consciences cannot be clean. If
they are clean, then it is because we do not use them enough. - Abba Eban
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 20:35:34 -0000
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
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From: Angelo Bertolli <abertoll@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: State of the Known World AC 700+
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>If they were added later, it was darned early on. Both the '78 AD&D
>Players Handbook and the '80 D&D Basic Rulebook both include elves,
>dwarves and halflings as character options (and the AD&D book also
>includes gnomes, half-elves and half-orcs). Also, the first D&D campaign
>ever, that of Blackmoor, has quite a few elven characters of importance,
>so they may have been around from day one as player options.
I meant later in development, but that's only speculation on how they came
about.
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:40:35 -0400
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From: Geoff Gander <au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: Mailing List GAZ
Ramhog wrote:
>This brings up something I'd wondered about recently- has Vaults of
>Pandius or the MML given up on the idea of producing Gazetteers? I
>read about people developing this area or that, but nothing (that I
>recall) in the form of a GAZ. I'm talking about the same physical
>format- players book, DM's book, map, bi-fold cover, etc. I don't
>mean that it would have to be printed, of course, just that it would
>look as close to the old material as possible in an electronic (i.e.
>Acrobat) form.
Well, some people have already mentioned the fan-made HWRs, and the
Cynidicea Gaz. I would also mention that Alex Benson wrote a Gaz for the
Alphatian kingdom of Randel, and that I wrote a full-length (about 101
pages in total, when you account for the players' and DM's guides)
gazetteer for the Empire of Selhomarr, an ancient nation that I created
for the Hollow World setting. Initially I had thought about drawing up a
fancy cover as well, just like the others (and I might someday, or more
likely, ask someone else to do it), with the proper fonts, etc.
<plug>
The player's guide is about 20 pages (24 if you add the rules for creating
Selhomarrian player characters, modelled after that guide in the HW boxed
set) long, and it covers the history of the empire from a player's
perspective, and discusses cultural outlook, social acitivites, life,
religion, and other elements of Selhomarrian society. I also wrote it in
Gaz format (that is, it's interspersed with narratives, to give the reader
a flavour of how things are).
The DM's guide (83 pages) gives a full account of surface- and hollow
world histories, culture (from an onmiscient DM perspective - *why* things
are done the way they are), what everyone knows about Selhomarrians,
geography of the empire, types of critters you'll encounter there, how
their cities are built (plus descriptions of the most prominent ones),
currency, trade, politics and law (plus political factions), important
NPCs, dark worship, wizardry and magic (ie: new spells), relics, and
finally six playable adventures for the campaign setting (scaled from
Basic to Master level).
</plug>
Geoff
--
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Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon
Carnifex Loremaster
au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:30:44 -0400
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From: Christopher Cherrington
<christopher.cherrington@OVERSEASSERVICE.COM>
Subject: Re: State of the Known World AC 700+
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>Also, the first D&D campaign
>ever, that of Blackmoor, has quite a few elven characters of importance,
>so they may have been around from day one as player options.
Actually Elves, Dwarves, then even later, Halflings were supplements to add
fantasy type Generals to Chainmail. When TSR got more requests for details
on 'characters' and fantasy combat than armies; they put in production D&D.
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 20:50:49 -0000
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From: Angelo Bertolli <abertoll@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Mailing List GAZ
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Has anyone thought of publishing these GAZ for "free." I mean obviously we
can't make money off of it, but we could charge people just for the
publication to distribute it as much as possible. I think many people would
like to have copies, and the few dollars it costs would be a great deal
compared to other manuals people buy. People could order them online, and
hopefully we could have them professionally done. Might need to get
permission for that step, and maybe WotC wants to do something like
themselves.
The reason why I brought this up is because it already costs me $0.10 per
page to print out this stuff at school.
Angelo.
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:44:16 -0400
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From: Christopher Cherrington
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It was not a module, but it had plenty of info. A TSR game called Saga, Age
of Heroes. It had a great little map of Pre-Viking Europe, and could be
used as the background of Klantyre and New Averoigne. Or even as an
Arthurian type campaign. Basically it was another world that only creatures
from certain areas mythos could be found in those areas, ie. Cyclops in
Greece, et... I had expanded on this campaign once, highest NPC levels was
9, magic was extremely rare (Excalibur was only a +1 Short Sword) Magic was
also based on constellations, and your spells were memorized once per week,
not daily. It was allot of fun running it, a good break from the other
campaigns. Only it takes allot of knowledge of RW history.
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:19:03 -0600
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From: ramhog <ramhog@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject: Re: Mailing List GAZ
In-Reply-To: <200104302040.QAA00756@freenet10.carleton.ca>
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>
>Well, some people have already mentioned the fan-made HWRs, and the
>Cynidicea Gaz. I would also mention that Alex Benson wrote a Gaz for the
>Alphatian kingdom of Randel,
How much of this stuff is canon? I'm coming from this with the idea
that, someday, the stuff produced here and VoP would see print with
the WotC seal of approval.
Personally, what I would like to see is a return of the old modules
and GAZ's that are as close to the original format as possible. I,
myself, am working toward that end in the stuff that I am creating-
if I create an adventure that I feel could pass muster, it will
include maps, a cover, the old logo, art, etc. as close as I can get
it to the original modules. Parts will be more successful than others
to be sure (I can't paint, so the cover art will suffer), but I'm
pretty good in the graphics department (i.e. Illustrator & Acrobat)
and I'm not *too* bad of an artist to provide interior illustrations.
At this point, this all goes to satisfying my own creative ends, but
it would be cool if at some point it could get the ball rolling in
the right direction (right as I see it, at any rate lol). Anyway,
blah, blah, blah...
VVH
--
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Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 03:19:13 +0200
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From: thibault sarlat <thibsylv@CLUB-INTERNET.FR>
Subject: Update to be made on mystara.fr.st
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Hi everyone
i have reorganizes my messy site and also i'll put some new maps available.
But since i have to upload so many files ( and i only have a 28800 modem)
it might take some time. Unless i can upload from someone else's
place...i'll try to do it tomorow on a T3.
I'll let you know when...
PS: as often as i can i have put credits to the author of a map available on
my site. If some are missing , feel free to tell me who did what and also
using what.thanks...
Thibault Sarlat.
ICQ 16622177.
homepage http://www.mystara.fr.st
Join me at: thibsylv@club-internet.fr
or at clenarius@hotmail.com
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 23:36:06 -0400
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From: Geoff Gander <au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: Update to be made on mystara.fr.st
Hi Thibeault,
I was wondering, could you send that Lhomarr map to my other email address
instead (ganderg@tc.gc.ca)? Thanks.
Geoff
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Carnifex Loremaster
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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 23:48:33 -0400
Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
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From: Geoff Gander <au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: Mailing List GAZ
>
>>
>>Well, some people have already mentioned the fan-made HWRs, and the
>>Cynidicea Gaz. I would also mention that Alex Benson wrote a Gaz for the
>>Alphatian kingdom of Randel,
>
>How much of this stuff is canon? I'm coming from this with the idea
>that, someday, the stuff produced here and VoP would see print with
>the WotC seal of approval.
I can't speak for the HWRs or Alex's work, but the Cynidicea sourcebook,
for example, took the B4 adventure as the base for all its
information (including history, though some inferences were made
there, with the help of the WotI sourcebook), and then
embellished on it in a reasonable way. It's not like we just sat there
and said, "Wouldn't it be cool if Cynidicea were like [insert concept
here]?". There were a lot of gaps though, and where we found these we
created entirely new material. Overall, most of the book is fan-created,
but we tried to base it as much as possible on B4.
<snip discussion of formatting>
Yeah, I'd like to do that sort of thing too. All the adventures I wrote
tend to have special fonts and sections and the like, but no cover art.
I've been meaning to do it, but I never find the time to sit down and do
it (or maybe I find an evcuse not to do it). Once I get my affairs in
order, I may issue a call for artists to draw things for me.
Geoff
--
Geoff Gander, BA 97
Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon
Carnifex Loremaster
au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091
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