========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:23:54 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Shedding Blood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George Hrabovsky wrote: > If it is the attitude of this list that I put people down and am critical > without any basis I will withdraw from the list effective immediately. Hey, come on, don't do that. All of us should just try to cool down...the point is that we are 268 and we don't have to go along in every discussion nor do we have to like each other. But the fact that we disagree should be brought up in civil ways, and we should try to avoid inflammatory and offensive posts. We all have our real life problems, and these can and will change the mood of our postings...if I come home after twelve hours at university I might get so irritated for such a little thing that I could write something I would soon regret. We should try to bear a little more each other, and try to make our posts in a more civil manner, everybody. And please, George, don't go. Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 10:36:19 +0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Ville V Lahde Subject: Re: Raide Dead: In-Reply-To: <200106072156.f57Luql05713@uta.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Robert D. Dunlap Jr. Wrote: "In past campaigns I decided to link Raise Dead with a High Ceremony/Mass related to the clerics beliefs. Although the cleric with the R.D. spell actually does the casting, the casting is doomed to failure if not performed in the presence of acolytes/lesser priests and congregation." I've used this idea, too. One of the PCs in my group had to travel leagues to get his dead wife resurrected (elven, so no raise option there). The lady had a baby in her tummy, so the situation was actually pretty impressive. Yuri Turambar was struggling through a blizzard, carrying her body. Well, he had an old favour to be called in from a northern cleric. So thing ended happily. (I wouldn't have allowed the resurrection otherwise, but the deity that the resurrecting cleric appealed to happened to be a god who knew the future significance of the baby, who is the first true half-elf ever.) I believe also that items holding raise dead of resurrection spells should most definitely be created in a High Mass or a similar ritual, even if it is a ring of spell storing that is to be recharged. Another possibility is that items like that are created by grim necromantic rituals - the creation would require possibly bloody sacrifices, and the results might be a bit smelly and clammy? In my campaign there has been one significant exception to this rule. The cleric of the group is the only one who knows the truth behind Halav (if you're interested, check my timelines in the list archives). Thus, he has a much bigger chance of getting individual attention. Of course this doesn't guarantee virtual immortality to him - someone else might get a revelation after his death. (Why would a deity hide her/his true existence? This particular deity is hiding from Thanatos, who is on the ascendancy again. They are long-time rivals from Nithia.) Ville L�hde ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 09:48:23 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: To the List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i have not followed your discussions lately, but judging from the last answer"stone marshall" made, i can only ask you to stay. As for the well called "stone marshall" i hope that his way of speaking is such only because of his abuse of illegal substances. If not then he should take some lessons of education and proper manner of speaking. It's one thing to disagree, but one very different to flame and insult people with different views. If you are not happy with what george had to say, then please, refrain from insulting him and the list at the same time. If I was the OGRE list, i'll suspend you for some time. But frankly i doubt that such a measure can instill some good sense and politeness in your brain... I am sorry for you man... Please George STAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thibault Sarlat. ICQ 16622177. homepage http://www.mystara.fr.st Join me at: thibsylv@club-internet.fr or at clenarius@hotmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: George Hrabovsky To: Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 6:51 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] To the List > I have decide that I am going to leave this list. At one time I thought it > was a place where people could freely discuss issues of Mystara and things > directly related to it. It has become a platform where people who go against > the status quo are jumped on and attempts are made to intimidate them. In my > arguments in the past I have avoided personal attacks unless flamed myself. > I have stuck to making arguments as clearly and consiely as I can. I > apologize if I have offended anyone. I have chosen Mystara as a place where > I run a game. It is important to my recreation. > > Unfortunately I have been feeling harrassed and singled out lately. I state > an opinion in a manner no different than the majority of others. I get > attacked because the content is different. I am told that I am stupid. I am > told that I am mean, because I disagree. I am critical of things that are > not well thought out. I am critical when the discussion goes far off topic. > I certainly do not like being told how to live my life. > > For this reason I am leaving. I left this list once before, and did not come > back for three years. I thought things had changed. I guess I will leave > now. If this is the spirit of people who support Mystara, then perhaps it is > better that it die. > > My only regret in leaving is that I have come to respect some of you. If > anyone wants to carry on private communications with me, I can be reached at > ghrabovsky@tds.net > > George > > George > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 02:16:40 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Wish MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the Cyclopedia it states that an 18 WIS is needed for casting wish for both magic-users and clerics. Is this a type-o? I would naturally expect an 18 INT for mages, but maybe there's something special about WIS? Maybe clerics are more likely to get wish? Angelo Bertolli URL: http://members.fortunecity.com/abertoll ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:17:26 +0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Ville V Lahde Subject: Thyatian isolation In-Reply-To: <200106080711.f587Bwl11084@uta.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT I could use some good advice, if some of you are intersted in extrapolating on Thyatian politics. I posted a few weeks ago some material concerning my upcoming Desert Master campaign. Me and my wargame veteral friend have been planning the course of the war some time now, and I hope we can get the Nomad war played during the summer. This means I have to give some serious attention to the future, as the main plot of my campaign, which has been brewing for 10 years, is about to burst in full bloom. Most of the events are taking place in the mainland of "Known World". I need to consider the role of Thyatis in those developments. First some background info: During the war I plan to have the Kin Sultan of Ylaruam join Hosadus the Desert Master. The Ylaruamians will most definitely start their operations in the second month of the war by attacking Selenica. The Sultan wishes to kick some defector ass (there are a lot of Preceptor "defectors" in Selenica), and draw some Darokinian forces to the east. While playtesting we saw that the success of this operation is highly unlikely. Either the elves or the Karameikans will break the siege, or the dwarves will cut off the Ylaruamians from supply by manning the mountain passes. (They probably will ask the Ylaruamians to leave peacefully and will let them through, to avoid total breakdown of diplomatic relations.) These events of course depend on which countires the PCs will be able to get to ally Darokin. After that the Ylaruamians are very likely to turn their eyes towards Tel Akbir. Again, the chances of success are slim. Not only are the thyatian legions pretty strong in X10. But also, the PCs have extremely good relations with Ostland and Vestland, and some good headaway in Soderfjord. As Vestland due to some developments in the campaign won't probably war with Ethengar (more precisely, with Batu Khan's defecting hordes), their only logical strategic move is to launch a joint offensive against Ylaruam. Things may yet turn out very differently than planned, but there's a good chance that Thyatis will be able to launch a counteroffensive towards Ylaruam and gain its old colonies, even most of the country. For the future of the campaign that would work well. The PCs will go to Surra-Man Raa on day and try to extract some lost memories about the Nithian roots of the Traladarans back into the world. THE PROBLEM at hand: For the future of my campaign it would be best if I could find a good reason for Thyatis to start a policy of isolation. They would close borders to Karameikos, Darokin and The Reaches. Only exceptions to the isolation would be Ostlandian mercenaries and vital trade, and of course key diplomatic actors. For Karameikos (recovering from the civil war) this would mean that many of the Thyatians would take advantage of a clause that allows them to "return" to the homeland. Also, the isolation policy would create a situation that made the future invasion from the north by the Aphastian forces (see the Timelines in Arhives) more exciting. Of course the Emperor would form a non-aggression pact with Aphastes. I just need some good reasons for the isolation policy. I've thought about many possible examples, but none have felt like just the right thing: - Al Kalim's reappearance in Ylaruam creates an underground resistance against the Thyatian occupation. Thyatians fear that support from Rockhome, the Makistani forces that Batu Khan uses in the war, Selenica and the Ylaruamian residents in Karameikos will recreate the original uprising. But this doesn't explain the wholesale isolation. - Huge amounts of war refugees strains the Thaytian economy. - A plague breaks out in the war-torn continent. Thyatian churches haven't been depleted by the war, so they have an ample supply of clerics to take care of themselves. This is just the obvious solution, I'd like something more novel. I'd appreciate any suggestions. By the way, how many Inns called "The Dessert Master" will there be after the war? If anyone is interested, I'd have a few points to make about the War Machine and how it works in the X10. I wonder, was it ever even playtested? (the WM in X10, not WM as a whole) Ville L�hde ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 02:55:36 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit While it is fair and right for the players to question the DM's decisions and make argument on their own behalf, and to point out certain rules in the book, it's also a way for munchkins to survive. Therefore, the DM may apply The Anti-Munchkin Rule, anouncing ahead of time to the players, about any specific rule or section of rules. DM's PEROGATIVE (or THE ANTI-MUNCHKIN RULE) This is a rule that applies to other rules. It's basically "what the DM says goes" and can be used in a variety of situations. It's most useful when the DM knows that decisions about a certain rule are going to need to be made on the spot, or about unclear rules and doesn't want the players to spend time arguing whether it's a fair rule, or how it should be handled, etc. However, DM's should use this rule sparingly or else may nullify the One Rule, "Be Fair" (RC, 262). After the DM's Perogative is set for a certain rule, the first move is on behalf of a player who question's the DM's action. If the DM made an honest mistake, then back up. Otherwise, the DM declares "what the DM says goes" and the issue is dropped completely. This rule is particularly good if a DM wants to randomly determine an outcome but without rolling dice. Angelo Bertolli URL: http://members.fortunecity.com/abertoll ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 19:00:50 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Ancient One Organization: NOLAN P and I Subject: Re: Thyatian isolation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "my" Thyatis is isolated for two reasons, an unreasonable and irritating young Emperor who can't function well with other rulers, and much more seriously the total political isolation of Thyatis as the only realm that keeps slaves... The slavery issue is used by enemies and neutral trading nations to justify anti-Thyatis trade policies - which rolls into another cause of war - economic hardship and the need to open up - by force if necessary - new markets. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 13:14:46 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Wish MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angelo Bertolli" To: Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 10:16 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] Wish > In the Cyclopedia it states that an 18 WIS is needed for casting wish for > both magic-users and clerics. Is this a type-o? I would naturally expect > an 18 INT for mages, but maybe there's something special about WIS? Maybe > clerics are more likely to get wish? > Since it was INT. in the original black Master Players Book, I always assumed it was an oversight due to cutting and pasting from the Cleric version. They left out the bit about being 33rd-36th level too on the RC version of the Mage spell. Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 08:55:56 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: So where do the spirits of the dead go? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: Eric Anondson [mailto:xen@VISI.COM] >> I just started paying attention to this thread and I was struck with a question about Mystara I don't know. Other settings seem to have a destination for the spirits of the deceased. The Realms, spirits go to the Fugue Plain, then on to the realm of the patron god. Dark Sun, they all end up in the Gray. Planescape, if I recall, spirits from the Prime pass into the Astral and then on to the afterlife. What goes on in Mystara? << >From the Dragon Articles VotPA... (my interpretation anyways...) When an entity dies on the Prime Plane, there soul or shadow of their former life (including shadows of original equipment, as long as they stay close to their owner's physical body) go to a plane called Limbo. From here characters can stay or if they were in good standing with their immortal patron, will be directed to leave limbo via a gate sent out by their patron (this may be a long process like a quest, pending the character's standing) Also if a raise dead spell is used it may direct the character back to the prime, if a character left limbo already (via gate, killed by a chaos master, indebted for eternity, et) then he will not return and the caster will have to seek a higher authority for assistance to call back the lost soul. Limbo has many of the physical characteristics of Mystara, put more corrupted via the proximity to Entropic forces. There are safe places like cities of the dead (chaos masters can't kill you there, but outside the cities you are fair game). Payment for transport, information, bodyguards, is made by the expenditure of hp's (they are back to full, but I play any negative amounts suffered in the prime are deducted) as this represents slivers of your soul. There are also closely guarded permanent gates out of Limbo, but they may lead to further more dreadful planes (Entropic places like Hell, or more friendly places like Nirvana). Hope this helps! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:10:21 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: So where do the spirits of the dead go? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The purpose of Limbo in a setting is to allow further play of dead characters. There are many hooks to play with. If the character was a hero, then he may have several baddies waiting for the hero to show up one day to take revenge. If there are several munchkins in the party and immediately procure the deceased's equipment, the lost soul will no have no protection in Limbo. If you want a more dramatic reason for not abusing the raise dead spell, especially if the person just killed the big baddy (and now it's one to one, with their friends looting both) Now the two will have to fight again! "I use my vorpal and cut of his head! oops, Where is my vorpal?" Also time in Limbo is difficult to calculate, you may have been dead for several minutes, but you could have been in Limbo for several hours; so if your friends loot your cold body in 5 minutes, you might have that vorpal for an hour or two. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:30:42 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: To the List Thibeault wrote: It's one thing to be upset over unkind or uncalled-for remarks (as was the case here), but responding with further insults of your own will not help anyone here. Yes, I thought it rude that someone told George to "get a life" (and perhaps I should use this time to say to everyone here that I would appreictae it VERY MUCH if we all refrained from this in the future), but then tossing some remarks to that person that were equally unkind, well, that's just not acceptable, IMO. You have a right to be upset. You have a right to be angry. You have a right to wish and hope that George reconsiders his decision (as I do), but, NO ONE has the right to "fight fire with fire" in this regard. I'd like this particular thread to die out. Thanks, Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 23:53:15 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Ancient One Organization: NOLAN P and I Subject: MYSTARA: BORIGON MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, if you haven't please check out George Hrabovsky's rules system homepage at www.borigon.homestead.com he has put together some excellent generic rules snippets and some excellent clear thinking on world design. Nice. -Jonathan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 07:33:40 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: OD&D ships for 2E Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think it is of relevance. Considering half the topics on this list are = about corporations and politics crap I think this is a more relevant = topic of what this list is about.=20 regards, JK Wolf >>> greenlantern@HOTKEY.NET.AU 06/08/01 04:32PM >>> Eshriel Orcslayer wrote: > > -Being relatively new to the list I lately (and recently beginning to = run a > nautical campaign) if anyone had converted the ships found in the > RC/Minrothad/Ierendi to 2E "ships and the sea" style? Yes, I did - should this be in a post (my ship stats) or offlist to the dude him/herself? is it it of general relevance or not? Or am I, by even asking that, maintaining a not-necessarily-true picture of list policing? -J ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=20 The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/=20 To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 07:40:46 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree angelo, your message should be on the What's a DM to do board. = It's incredible what some Players have in mind when they play.=20 regards, JK Wolf >>> abertoll@HOTMAIL.COM 06/08/01 02:55AM >>> While it is fair and right for the players to question the DM's decisions and make argument on their own behalf, and to point out certain rules in = the book, it's also a way for munchkins to survive. Therefore, the DM may = apply The Anti-Munchkin Rule, anouncing ahead of time to the players, about any specific rule or section of rules. DM's PEROGATIVE (or THE ANTI-MUNCHKIN RULE) This is a rule that applies to other rules. It's basically "what the DM = says goes" and can be used in a variety of situations. It's most useful when = the DM knows that decisions about a certain rule are going to need to be made = on the spot, or about unclear rules and doesn't want the players to spend = time arguing whether it's a fair rule, or how it should be handled, etc. = However, DM's should use this rule sparingly or else may nullify the One Rule, "Be Fair" (RC, 262). After the DM's Perogative is set for a certain rule, the first move is on behalf of a player who question's the DM's action. If the DM made an = honest mistake, then back up. Otherwise, the DM declares "what the DM says goes" and the issue is dropped completely. This rule is particularly good if a = DM wants to randomly determine an outcome but without rolling dice. Angelo Bertolli URL: http://members.fortunecity.com/abertoll=20 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=20 The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/=20 To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 07:43:24 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: So where do the spirits of the dead go? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So Limbo is sort of like Planescape? >>> christopher.cherrington@OVERSEASSERVICE.COM 06/08/01 06:10AM >>> The purpose of Limbo in a setting is to allow further play of dead characters. There are many hooks to play with. If the character was a hero, then he may have several baddies waiting for the hero to show up one day to take revenge. If there are several munchkins in the party and immediately procure the deceased's equipment, the lost soul will no have = no protection in Limbo. If you want a more dramatic reason for not abusing = the raise dead spell, especially if the person just killed the big baddy (and now it's one to one, with their friends looting both) Now the two will = have to fight again! "I use my vorpal and cut of his head! oops, Where is my vorpal?" Also time in Limbo is difficult to calculate, you may have been dead for several minutes, but you could have been in Limbo for several hours; so if your friends loot your cold body in 5 minutes, you might have that vorpal for an hour or two. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=20 The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/=20 To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:07:11 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: So where do the spirits of the dead go? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: Joe Kelly [mailto:joe_kelly@DAVIS.CA] >> So Limbo is sort of like Planescape? << I have never played Planescape, but I imagine the same rules apply; except for some minor details. In Limbo you are only a soul with just shadows of your former equipment, not a real manifestation of your character. If your items are taken away on the Prime, they will disappear from your character in Limbo. Also most spells will not work in Limbo, you can't heal dmg or regenerate lost hp's. You also can't cast gate or use an item to do the same, they don't work. If a not-dead character enters Limbo via a gate or other way, the effects of Entropy would seriously hamper the character (aging rapidly, turning slowly into an undead, et) and he may not be entitled to the same protection from the cities, and be under the same restrictions of spells and magic. It would be an extremely bad thing to do. If you die in Limbo, your dead. There is no resurrection or reincarnation available to bring you back if you die there. Your soul is lost and it is possible that the energy your life once created is now the same energy that now empowers an undead (like a zombie or skeleton). Some undead can travel between Limbo and the Prime (Masters of Chaos, Liches, Spirits, some Wraiths, powerful Vampires and Nosferati, et) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 18:31:24 +0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Eyal Fleminger Subject: Re: So where do the spirits of the dead go? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed You can find the text of the VotPA article at my site http://fleminge0.tripod.com Hopes this helps, Eyal >From: Eric Anondson [mailto:xen@VISI.COM] > >> >I just started paying attention to this thread and I was struck with a >question about Mystara I don't know. Other settings seem to have a >destination for the spirits of the deceased. The Realms, spirits go to >the Fugue Plain, then on to the realm of the patron god. Dark Sun, they >all end up in the Gray. Planescape, if I recall, spirits from the Prime >pass into the Astral and then on to the afterlife. > >What goes on in Mystara? ><< > >>From the Dragon Articles VotPA _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 01:52:24 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Ancient One Organization: NOLAN P and I Subject: Re: OD&D ships for 2E MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe Kelly wrote: > > I think it is of relevance. Considering half the topics on this list are about corporations and politics crap I think this is a more relevant topic of what this list is about. > regards, > JK Wolf Ok then. I will retype them and post them. It will be a long-ish post with the heading MYSTARA:OSATS -Jonathan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:00:46 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Eric Anondson Subject: Re: So where do the spirits of the dead go? >You can find the text of the VotPA article at my site > >http://fleminge0.tripod.com > >Hopes this helps, Fantastic! Thanks! It provokes further thought. I had been researching the planar cosmology presented in the Immortals set, which describes the Astral Plane as being the residence of all Outer Planes, and ALL Outer Planes are finite spaces. The only infinite planes being Prime, Ethereal and Astral. This article explicitly states the Mystaran "Limbo" is -not- finite, but is an Outer Plane. Anyone care to posit a rationale that ties these loose ends? Eric Anondson ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:05:37 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Thyatian isolation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Wow, this sounds like a really fun campaign. >> I just need some good reasons for the isolation policy. I've thought about many possible examples, but none have felt like just the right thing: - Al Kalim's reappearance in Ylaruam creates an underground resistance against the Thyatian occupation. Thyatians fear that support from Rockhome, the Makistani forces that Batu Khan uses in the war, Selenica and the Ylaruamian residents in Karameikos will recreate the original uprising. But this doesn't explain the wholesale isolation. - Huge amounts of war refugees strains the Thaytian economy. - A plague breaks out in the war-torn continent. Thyatian churches haven't been depleted by the war, so they have an ample supply of clerics to take care of themselves. This is just the obvious solution, I'd like something more novel. << I have a suggestion. Take a look at the Thyatian civil war thread in the 1016 and 1017 MAs. I think that with some modifications this could really be useful to you. Perhaps Oesterhaus (sp?) is the leader of an isolation policy. [Oesterhaus is of course a mortal identity of Thanatos, and he may be working with Loki/Bozdogan and the Master... or more likely he is using their schemes to further his own plots.] Anyway since Oesterhaus is a kind of big player in Thyatis, the new Emporer may have trouble drumming up support for any outside attacks. Oesterhaus also starts drawing up his forces, and this should give the emporer pause. Why fight wars without when a war may be brewing within. This is IMO a very good reason for an isolation policy. It's perhaps not a policy that is wanted, but instead one that is forced upon Thyatis none the less. And just think...if Oesterhaus wins the civil war, Thyatis may enter the Desert war on the side of Hule. John ===== Rule #53. If the beautiful princess that I capture says "I'll never marry you! Never, do you hear me, NEVER!!!", I will say "Oh well" and kill her. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 12:14:05 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: So where do the spirits of the dead go? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: Eric Anondson [mailto:xen@VISI.COM] >You can find the text of the VotPA article at my site > >http://fleminge0.tripod.com > >Hopes this helps, >>snip<< >> This article explicitly states the Mystaran "Limbo" is -not- finite, but is an Outer Plane. Anyone care to posit a rationale that ties these loose ends? << The whole cosmology that a departed soul automatically appears in Limbo before any other plane would suggest that Limbo is not a regular Outer Plane. It would be possible to explain it's existence the same way one would explain the Great Void, a part of the cosmology that keeps all of Mystara under the direct actions of Immortals (to explore) and Old Ones (to keep up the mystery of the planes). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:40:16 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Eric Anondson Subject: Re: So where do the spirits of the dead go? >> This article explicitly states the Mystaran "Limbo" is -not- finite, but >> is an Outer Plane. >> >> Anyone care to posit a rationale that ties these loose ends? > The whole cosmology that a departed soul automatically appears in > Limbo before any other plane would suggest that Limbo is not a > regular Outer Plane. It would be possible to explain it's existence > the same way one would explain the Great Void, a part of the > cosmology that keeps all of Mystara under the direct actions of > Immortals (to explore) and Old Ones (to keep up the mystery of the > planes). I caught the reference to the "immediate" appearance too, which made me think it would have to be adjacent to Prime like the Ethereal is. Would it be reasonable to suppose that Mystara's Limbo is the "Nightmare" equivalent of Mystara's Ethereal? That is those who enter the Ethereal from their native dimensional persepctive enter the Ethereal as described in the source books. But when a creature dies, and the soul separates from the body, the dimensional perspective reverses and your soul thus enters "Limbo", the "reversed" Ethereal. This could go a long way to providing an explanation why Immortals are likewise forbidden to enter. Everything, including Immortals, have native dimensional perspectives. Just an idea... Eric Anondson ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 13:02:34 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: So where do the spirits of the dead go? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: Eric Anondson [mailto:xen@VISI.COM] >> I caught the reference to the "immediate" appearance too, which made me think it would have to be adjacent to Prime like the Ethereal is. Would it be reasonable to suppose that Mystara's Limbo is the "Nightmare" equivalent of Mystara's Ethereal? That is those who enter the Ethereal from their native dimensional persepctive enter the Ethereal as described in the source books. But when a creature dies, and the soul separates from the body, the dimensional perspective reverses and your soul thus enters "Limbo", the "reversed" Ethereal. << >From the old Immortals books, the main difference of an Immortal from the mortal is the perception of the 4th dimension (thus allowing the use of such cosmic powers). The Diaboli and other Nightmare dimensional creatures co-exist within the Prime, not on adjacent planes or outer planes. This coexistence is from the fact normal mortals view their reality from the first to third dimensions, and the dimensional creatures view their reality from the fourth to second dimensions. Thus a reversed Ethereal would be an Ethereal full of Dimensional creatures. I would suspect that limbo would be another plane like the Astral and Ethereal, only separating the outer planes from the void. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 15:02:31 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: DM Subject: Re: Ylari and Nithian pantheon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ville V Lahde wrote: <> Nothing wrong here: he IS the Immortal Patron of all Hutaakans and derived races (Lupins), see also Dragon #237. <> Yes I do, but I have to point out another not well known fact to justify my decision. If u look up at page 62 of GAZ2, Emirates of Ylaruam, you will notice that among the Immortal Guardians listed the mysterious "Gnoll" is mentioned. Here's the quote: "The device [the Pearl of Oblivion] was created at great expense of power by the Old Man of the Sea, The Gnoll, and Zephyr, dedicated Immortals who wished to reestablish the balance disturbed by the direct interference of Thanatos (and his secret ally Corona) in the affairs of the Nithian empire." Note that all of the above mentioned Immortals appear in my own Nithian Immortals' list.. So I didn't make up the name: I just took it from the canon source (GAZ2) and chose to associate a common Immortal to it.. and how many gnoll-like good Immortals are there to fill this place, IYO? ;) Cause it's unlikely Ranivorus (the only other gnoll-like immortal) participated in creating an artifact that erases the memory of the dangerous Nithian knowledge.. So as u can see, this is a nickname given prolly to Pflaar by the Nithians or by the early Alaysians in the old legends (they sure couldn't tell the difference between Pflarr and a gnoll, or between a hutaaka and a gnoll, since they never saw hutaakas in first place). DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn "You don't stop playing because you grow old: you grow old because you stop playing!" Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 And Mystara Italian Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/9940 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gioco.net/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 14:37:43 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: To the List In-Reply-To: <030c01c0efd6$b40c03e0$8b39abd0@tds.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, George Hrabovsky wrote: > I have decide that I am going to leave this list. At one time I thought it > was a place where people could freely discuss issues of Mystara and things > directly related to it. It has become a platform where people who go against > the status quo are jumped on and attempts are made to intimidate them. I too would like to raise my voice. George, don't go. It seems that there has been a spate of childish behavior recently (heck, even I've been a part of it!) But your views _are_ valid, and though some may disagree, and some mas disagree in a poor way, you shouldn't leave. Just my $.02 as I install Gnome 1.4 for the 4th time today and am probably not all that coherent. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 21:04:05 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Agathokles Subject: Re: So where do the spirits of the dead go? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > So Limbo is sort of like Planescape? > << > > I have never played Planescape, but I imagine the same rules apply; except > for some minor details. Planescape officially has no buffer zone between the Prime and the Outer Planes for the dead souls. They're automatically channeled through the Astral to their final destination. A later non-PS AD&D product, the Guide to Hell, modified the status quo, so that the people that in OD&D would stay in Limbo and in PS would go to the generic Outer Planes (not a specific Immortal/Power's realm) now end up in the Nine Hells/Baator. This serious inconsistence can, interestingly enough, be easily solved by introducing in the PS multiverse the OD&D Limbo, replacing the "Minions of Entropy" with Baatezu agents. That's how it works now in my campaign, BTW. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 21:16:34 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Francesco Defferrari Subject: disinformation about D&D (not OT IMHO) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, i write particulary to the italians readers of the MML, because at the = url http://kwcinema.play.kataweb.it/ (then search "Dungeons and = Dragons" then "prova a cercare dungeons and dragons tra gli articoli" ) there is an article about the D&D movie that says how D&D brought young = people to satanism, homicide and suicide...in Usa and in Italy... I know = that there are not many good things to say about the D&D movie, but that = is the kind of disinformation against which players should fight... = Besides that url is one of the most important italian server and sites, = not a little group of religious fanatics.. I and my friends have written = to the site ( e mail kwcinema@kataweb.it ) to remonstrate against the = article. I encourage other italian players to do the same.=20 Excuse me if someone thinks that i'm off topic, but IMHO we should = always speak against that kind of disinformation...=20 Here is the text of the article, (in italian) judge by yourself... Allarme negli Usa per l'uscita di 'Dungeons and Dragons' Secondo gli psichiatri il film, ispirato al vecchio videogame, potrebbe = scatenare violenze e suicidi tra i giovanissimi=20 Tornano i draghi e risvegliano vecchi incubi. Dungeons and Dragons, = capostipite negli anni '80 del fenomeno mondiale dei giochi di ruolo, = =E8 approdato in versione cinematografica nelle sale degli Usa ed ha = allarmato gli psichiatri: c'=E8 il rischio che anche il film, come = avvenne con il gioco, scateni violenze e suicidi tra i giovanissimi. "Questo film probabilmente provocher=E0 enorme dolore", ha messo in = guardia Herbert Schreier, primario di psichiatria all'Ospedale = pediatrico di Oakland, in California. "E' molto seducente e qualche = ragazzino ne rester=E0 totalmente irretito". Il film =E8 una sagra degli = effetti speciali, con una trama che i critici hanno definito = "estremamente debole", legata ad una serie di avventure attraverso mondi = paralleli, imperi minacciati, draghi, castelli e prigioni e un'overdose = di magia. Nonostante un cast di buoni attori, tra cui Bruce Payne, e una = breve apparizione di una star come Jeremy Irons, la versione = hollywoodiana di 'Dungeons and Dragons' non sembra destinata ad essere = ricordata come un capolavoro del cinema. Ma il timore =E8 che passi alla = storia per episodi tragici analoghi a quelli che accompagnarono il = successo del gioco. I draghi conquistarono l'America tra la fine degli anni '70 e l'inizio = degli '80, primo di una lunga serie di giochi di ruolo che conobbero il = loro declino solo con l'esplosione dei videogames e di Internet. Il = gioco consisteva in realt=E0 soltanto in un libro di istruzioni e magie = che spiegava come dividersi i ruoli tra i partecipanti, chiamati ad = immedesimarsi per giorni, a volte per mesi, nei personaggi che = interpretavano: il mago, l'elfo, il guerriero, il ladro e cos=EC via. Al = vertice del successo, 'Dungeons and Dragons' arriv=F2 ad essere = praticato negli Usa da 4 milioni di persone tra i 12 e i 25 anni. Ben presto esplosero anche gli effetti collaterali. Ragazzini che = uccidevano i compagni di giochi "perch=E9 incarnavano il Male" e = andavano quindi eliminati. Adolescenti come Sean Sellers, 16 anni, che = perdevano il contatto con la realt=E0 perch=E9 ormai irretiti da = fantasie sataniste: Sean alla fine degli anni Ottanta uccise tre = persone, tra cui la madre, e nel febbraio del 1999 =E8 stato giustiziato = per quei delitti. "Questo film riaprir=E0 vecchie ferite", ha detto al = 'New York Post' Louis Howland, il cui fratello di 11 anni fu ucciso da = un amico che lo riteneva "un demone maligno". Anche l'Italia fu = raggiunta, negli anni '90, dalle polemiche legate a 'Dungeons and = Dragons'. I suicidi a breve distanza di tempo di due ragazzi a Latina e = Venezia, nel 1996, scatenarono una campagna contro i giochi di ruolo, = ritenuti responsabili delle morti e diedero il via ad inchieste = giudiziarie. La data d'uscita del film in Italia non =E8 stata ancora decisa.=20 Francesco "What can change the nature of a man ?" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 12:17:04 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: III Subject: PCs as Diplomats- The Gritty Details Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A number of Mystaran modules make the assumption that the PCs, who have taken on temporary roles as ambassadors for a Mystaran nation, will be give= n free access to the heads of state of other Mystaran nations. Red Arrow, Black Shield and Talons of Night spring immediately to mind. It may be eas= y to walk in and speak to the King of Ostland, but I don=92t imagine anybody gets to talk to the Emperor of Thyatis without an invitation. Has anyone done any work on the layers of bureaucracy that surround the centers of power in the nations of the Known World? Andy Morrow III _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 12:17:53 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: III Subject: Freeport Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here=92s a tip. I recently picked up the 3E module Death in Freeport from Green Ronin Publishing. It=92s a nice little module in the style of the Veiled Society. It has a fairly simple mystery, requiring some player initiative, but easy enough to serve as an introduction to that kind of gam= e for new players, or old player more used to =91kick-down the door and kill = it=92 style play. Anyway, my point- I originally thought about placing Freeport off the Minaean Coast, but after reading the module, I think that the Freeport series could serve as an excellent replacement for the much-maligned Ierendi Gazetteer. There are a number of parallels- both populations have a criminal history; both islands once hosted a reptilian population, both have provided naval assistance for the nations of the mainland while remaining largely independent. I think that Freeport would fit quite nicely into the Known World without disrupting the KW=92s rich history or complex political tapestry. =20 Andy Morrow III _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 12:28:27 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Greg Weatherup Subject: Re: to the list Comments: cc: ghrabovsky@tds.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit leaving... personal attacks.... did another flame war pop up? I've been skimming threads a lot more than usual lately so don't know what's going on, so I don't know what was said, but I hope you'll change your mind about leaving.... Mystara needs all the fans it has, especially the creative ones (I read that story you had posted a while back and loved it). >If this is the spirit of people who support Mystara, then perhaps it is better that it die. again, I don't know what was said but that sounds harsh... never let mystara die! Greg Weatherup Gecko GWxup@excite.com Gecko_G@email.com http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/spock/67/index.html http://members.fortunecity.com/Gecko_G/ _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 15:35:56 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Stone Marshall Subject: Re: To the List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It seems that I have offended alot of people with my message to George telling him to "Get a Life." I apologize to the list for my hotheaded answer. After reading some of the more absurd posts to this list, I assumed that as long as I did not curse someone I could say what I want, to whom I want, when I wanted too. Clearly George was as offended by my statement as I was to his statement to "Quit wasting his bandwidth." Even when the posts to this list are absurd and off the Mystaran point (IMO) I try to keep my comments to myself and just delete the message. As to my name being a drug reference, I can assure you it is my name as it appears on my drivers licence. I have had people make fun of my name all my life, but to have it done in this list is ironic to the extreme considering the name of the person who sent the message. Please lets all just try to get back to the topic of Mystara and I will personally try to get George back to the list. Multizar the Humbled Mage ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 17:13:28 -0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Rodrigo Subject: Re: To the List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looks good to me. And is good for the list, without doubt, that all of you stay here. Kor Jauhar, the Sha'ir Stone Marshall wrote: > It seems that I have offended alot of people with my message to George > telling him to "Get a Life." I apologize to the list for my hotheaded answer. > After reading some of the more absurd posts to this list, I assumed that as > long as I did not curse someone I could say what I want, to whom I want, when > I wanted too. Clearly George was as offended by my statement as I was to his > statement to "Quit wasting his bandwidth." Even when the posts to this list > are absurd and off the Mystaran point (IMO) I try to keep my comments to > myself and just delete the message. As to my name being a drug reference, I > can assure you it is my name as it appears on my drivers licence. I have had > people make fun of my name all my life, but to have it done in this list is > ironic to the extreme considering the name of the person who sent the > message. Please lets all just try to get back to the topic of Mystara and I > will personally try to get George back to the list. > > Multizar the Humbled Mage > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 13:20:26 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Matthew Wang Subject: Re: Freeport In-Reply-To: <12701915.992027873544.JavaMail.imail@digger.excite.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Andy, I bought the whole Freeport trilogy recently and although I only have read "Death in Freeport", I think the Freeport series is some of the highest quality D20 material out there. I think their was a previous thread on where to put Freeport and it followed similar type logic that you had. If you want I can post my thoughts on the other two parts, Terror in Freeport and Madness in Freeport, after I finish reading it. Matt Wang --- III wrote: > Here�s a tip. I recently picked up the 3E module > Death in Freeport from > Green Ronin Publishing. It�s a nice little module > in the style of the > Veiled Society. It has a fairly simple mystery, > requiring some player > initiative, but easy enough to serve as an > introduction to that kind of game > for new players, or old player more used to > �kick-down the door and kill it� > style play. Anyway, my point- I originally thought > about placing Freeport > off the Minaean Coast, but after reading the module, > I think that the > Freeport series could serve as an excellent > replacement for the > much-maligned Ierendi Gazetteer. There are a > number of parallels- both > populations have a criminal history; both islands > once hosted a reptilian > population, both have provided naval assistance for > the nations of the > mainland while remaining largely independent. I > think that Freeport would > fit quite nicely into the Known World without > disrupting the KW�s rich > history or complex political tapestry. > > > Andy Morrow III > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 15:44:54 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Tome #1, and progress on #6 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi everyone, This is just a brief note to let you know that Tome Issue #1 is back online, at http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome/tomevol1/ Also, #6 (the Final Issue) is pretty much ready to go, except for a few author bios, so if you haven't sent me your bio, and didn't get my email for some reason, please contact me as soon as possible! Thanks. Jennifer ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 14:01:10 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: Freeport MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andy: I heartily agree that Freeport suits the location of Ierendi quite nicely, and it's not difficult to "mold" part of Ierendian history to fit it in while keeping any aspects of the original Ierendi Gazetteer that may suit the particular DM's needs. My comments from the earlier thread Matt mentioned (subject was: "Adventuring in Ierendi" and it occured around May 2nd, 2001) are included here: ----- IM(embrionic)3EC, I have effectively swapped out Ierendi City and replaced it with the Pirate City of Freeport from the Green Ronin d20 Freeport series ("Death in Freeport" is the first module, and the only one I've actually got so far. For more details go to " ). I modified the history of Ierendi to better accomodate the situation required for "Death in Freeport", but tried to keep a lot of the "good stuff" in place. It actually "snapped in" quite well otherwise. I'm hoping that the next two modules prove to be as useful, though I don't expect either to get used right away (My players are about 1/3rd of the way into the first module at this point, and I expect them to all be leaving the Island for Darokin when it's done.) I'd forward my modified timeline here, but two (and maybe three) of my five players are actually members of the list, and not all of them know all the historical details. Anyone that's interested is free to write me and I can send the information out via email though. :-) ----- My players have now worked through about 2/3rds of the adventure after two sessions -- it is well designed with obvious divisions into three parts). They seem to be enjoying it so far -- though perhaps one or more of the three of them on this list will consider giving a players perspective on the insertion of Freeport to Ierendi ;-) To Matt: I still haven't purchased the other modules yet, so I would be very keen to hear your opinions of the other two, and how well you think they also work in Mystara. I'm particularly interested in knowing whether it would be reasonable to run the second module after a significant lapse of time -- I already have plans for my players in other regions "abroad" but they will eventually find themselves back in the region of the Ierendi and Minrothad Island Chain. To Both: If either of you (or others) would be interested in my "modified timeline" I'm still be happy to share it off list -- I've already done so with two or three other list members. :-) Jenni A. M. Merrifield -=> strawberryJAMM =- My Mystara Files: http://www.jamm.com/mystara/ PS: I thought I'd add that I set up the Immortal Noumena as the module's generic "God of Knowledge". Based on the info from the Imortals Codex from the WotI boxed set he seemed to have the most appropriate portfolio as the Immortal of logic and puzzle solving. =JAMM ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 15:02:56 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Freeport Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable the previous place for the Freeport modules was the capital of Ierendi. = IMC I am placing it at the unmentioned Port Siers since it has no history = and in a way could be a Skullport City as in opposite of Waterdeep. Of = course in this case, it is a physical opposite as well as it is on the = opposite side of the Island=20 :) regards, JK Wolf >>> mattwang97@YAHOO.COM 06/08/01 01:20PM >>> Andy, I bought the whole Freeport trilogy recently and although I only have read "Death in Freeport", I think the Freeport series is some of the highest quality D20 material out there. I think their was a previous thread on where to put Freeport and it followed similar type logic that you had. If you want I can post my thoughts on the other two parts, Terror in Freeport and Madness in Freeport, after I finish reading it. Matt Wang --- III wrote: > Here's a tip. I recently picked up the 3E module > Death in Freeport from > Green Ronin Publishing. It's a nice little module > in the style of the > Veiled Society. It has a fairly simple mystery, > requiring some player > initiative, but easy enough to serve as an > introduction to that kind of game > for new players, or old player more used to > 'kick-down the door and kill it' > style play. Anyway, my point- I originally thought > about placing Freeport > off the Minaean Coast, but after reading the module, > I think that the > Freeport series could serve as an excellent > replacement for the > much-maligned Ierendi Gazetteer. There are a > number of parallels- both > populations have a criminal history; both islands > once hosted a reptilian > population, both have provided naval assistance for > the nations of the > mainland while remaining largely independent. I > think that Freeport would > fit quite nicely into the Known World without > disrupting the KW's rich > history or complex political tapestry. > > > Andy Morrow III > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/=20 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=20 The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/=20 To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 20:28:38 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: DM Subject: Re: So where do the spirits of the dead go? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"  Eric Anondson <xen@VISI.COM> asked:

<< I just started paying attention to this thread and I was struck with a
question about Mystara I don't know. Other settings seem to have a
destination for the spirits of the deceased. The Realms, spirits go to
the Fugue Plain, then on to the realm of the patron god. Dark Sun, they
all end up in the Gray. Planescape, if I recall, spirits from the Prime
pass into the Astral and then on to the afterlife.
What goes on in Mystara?>>

Simple: non-believers go to Limbo (see Dragon's article written by Bruce Heard), while faithful followers go to the Outer Plane their Immortal mantains to judge them in the afterlife. There they remain for the rest of their afterlife as souls or until the Immortal decides to transform them into Titans or other exalted beings (such as angels) or to reincarnate them into the bodies of newborn kids..

That's what I think, at least.

DM
Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac
First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn

"You don't stop playing because you grow old:
you grow old because you stop playing!"

Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at:
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967
And Mystara Italian Homepage at:
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/9940

Join the Mystara Webring at:
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html
Join the Starfleet Academy at:
http://gioco.net/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM)

******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 20:03:27 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: Shedding Blood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You know, oddly enough I never got Ethan's original response. If I'm reading the reply correctly, I'd say you have a nearly valid point. I wouldn't quite go as far as to equate him with Grant...my major concern is equating a lack of intelligence, or vapidity, with being smart enough to surround himself with good men and women. And there's no question he has the strongest moral fiber of any president in the last 8 years. Stephan Karameikos? Yeah, I see the resemblence...but there's something missing. He has that down home charm that makes even his political enemies reluctantly like him from time to time. Perhaps he is more of an Ericall...young, earnest, and wanting to do good for people...so he surrounds himself with high level characters... So...what do you suppose Ret Gen Colin Powell's stats are? How about Condoleeza(sp?) Rice? John Ashcroft? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Cherrington" To: Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Shedding Blood > -----Original Message----- > From: John Calvin [mailto:chimpman.geo@YAHOO.COM] > >> > Bush is the Grant of our era. Blissfully unaware, and lets his advisors do > all the work. > << > >> > Ahem... I probably shouldn't touch this one with a ten foot pole but oh > well. > Since this is the MML I'm sure you meant to say "Bush is the RW equivalent > of > our Stephan Karameikos." > > John > << > Now you're starting fires, Stephan is a great leader, he has many a great > man to help him, but he is a great leader just by himself! > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 17:23:41 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: So where do the spirits of the dead go? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I like your website marco, very cool! :0 JK Wolf >>> mdalmonte@PROVINCIA.RA.IT 06/08/01 11:28AM >>> Eric Anondson asked: << I just started paying attention to this thread and I was struckwith = a=20 question about Mystara I don't know. Other settings seem to have a=20 destination for the spirits of the deceased. The Realms, spirits go to the Fugue Plain, then on to the realm of the patron god. Dark Sun, they all end up in the Gray. Planescape, if I recall, spirits from the Prime pass into the Astral and then on to the afterlife. What goes on in Mystara?>> Simple: non-believers go to Limbo (see Dragon's article written by = BruceHeard), while faithful followers go to the Outer Plane their = Immortalmantains to judge them in the afterlife. There they remain for the = restof their afterlife as souls or until the Immortal decides to transformt= hem into Titans or other exalted beings (such as angels) or toreincarnate = them into the bodies of newborn kids.. That's what I think, at least. DM=20 Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac=20 First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn You don't stop playing because you grow old:=20 you grow old because you stop playing! Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at:=20 http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967=20 And Mystara Italian Homepage at:=20 http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/9940=20 Join the Mystara Webring at:=20 http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html=20 Join the Starfleet Academy at:=20 http://gioco.net/startrek(Italian RPG PBEM) ********************************************************************The = Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.aspThe = Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/To unsubscribe, send email = to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COMwith UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the = message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 17:30:38 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Introducing Skull Warriors Comments: To: MYSTARA-L@.WIZARDS.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IMC I use for most evil humanoid adventures I replace Undead with Skull = Warriors, this usually makes the adventure more tough, because the PCs are = now fighting well trained fighters instead of a bunch of wimpy undead. Of = course most adventures I am referring to are evil wizards, and the such. = Evacuated towers and keeps just means the mercenaries got there first and = are looting the treasure the party was supposed to get. Since the legions = are LE there is no real moral conflict for the party (but they might make = a few enemies!) A Skull Legion Patrol is about 15 members strong, 1 Lt. F7 = or better and a Sgt F5. and the rest are usually 3rd level or less = fighters. Also a couple may have a few magical weapons. I will post a = breakdown of legion ranks later.=20 regards, :) JK Wolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 11:02:51 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Ancient One Organization: NOLAN P and I Subject: Re: Shedding Blood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeff Daly wrote: > > You know, oddly enough I never got Ethan's original response. If I'm > reading the reply correctly, I'd say you have a nearly valid point. I > wouldn't quite go as far as to equate him with Grant...my major concern is > equating a lack of intelligence, or vapidity, with being smart enough to > surround himself with good men and women. And there's no question he has > the strongest moral fiber of any president in the last 8 years. Of course, he's a Satanist... but maybe that doesn't preclude him from having "moral fibre" ? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 21:03:52 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Shedding Blood In-Reply-To: <00a101c0f077$9d652580$6232140a@jdaly> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Jeff Daly wrote: > the strongest moral fiber of any president in the last 8 years. The same can be said about just about anyone, had they been elected president. I, personally would prefer a Chaotic Good leader, which is why I voted for McCain in the primaries, and Harry Browne in the generals. Bush is sitting in the neutral good area possibly slipping into Lawful Neutral, he thinks he's doing what is right, and will do his best to uphold the law. But I can't support him as many of his social conservative cronies are too Lawful Neutral (judge) or Lawful Evil (dominator) for my liking. > So...what do you suppose Ret Gen Colin Powell's stats are? Definitely Lawful Good. High constitution, high wisdom, obscenely high charisma. Has the leadership feat. Probably a level 18-20 fighter. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 21:07:30 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Shedding Blood In-Reply-To: <3B2264CB.6420@hotkey.net.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, The Ancient One wrote: > Of course, he's a Satanist... but maybe that doesn't preclude him from > having "moral fibre" ? Morals are such fluid things. In just about every major world religion that beleives in the concept of eternal punishment, I'm headed there. But that does not preclude me for being nice to my fellow man, or helping wounded cats get better. Morals and Ethics are, for the most part, situationally and culturally dependant. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 03:56:33 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: Shedding Blood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hey, guys, we're kinda meandering into the RW stuff, (I'm falling into the temptation again, a few years ago, my gaming party had a memorable discussion trying to define alignments for a bunch of world politicians and celebrities) but I think there's some Mystara-meaningful connection: how do Mystarans go around and make moral and ethical judgements about their rulers? here we have been talking about the US President and some Secretaries (that's normal, I don't think too many people in the list know about our Charlie-Chaplin looking President and our useless-but-funny King) just because we have tons of media (with different opinions and ideologies) to look at and compare in a matter of minutes... that was of course completely different in a RW Middle Ages society, and it must be different from both alternatives in a fantasy setting like Mystara. I guess that most common people in Mystara will have an idealized and wishful vision of their ruler, and will charge their frustration (at taxes, justice abuse, etc) on a closer bureucrat, major, officer, whose face they can see and (when unseen) taunt and curse. That would go along the lines of a pre-information era society. But there are some interesting ingredients in Mystara, similar to our RW, which can make it an interesting mix: 1. Independent resourceful groups: it would be similar to information media, they can be independent (somewhat) or biased on some directions: that role can be filled by churches and clerical orders (the degree of politeism and cross-nation worship in Mystara is anomalous, from the RW and from other fantasy settings); powerful mages, who can sympatize with a ruler, but have quite a lot of practical autonomy. 2. adventurers, they move around a lot, get entrusted with important missions which give away some secrets of state, and even if adventurers are pro and discreet, can they be 100% so? OK, all those are minorities, but minorities which far more relative power in Mystara than power groups in RW. So, how do you think a Mystaran would talk and form opinions about his nation's ruler? and about other nations' rulers?? that would be probably even harder, and quite a projection of the general outlook on the nation (a Darokinian thinking of King Everast as the typical dwarf, stubborn, kinda greedy but brave and moral). Nevertheless, as Mystara is so free and unique, there're places, like Glantri or Ierendi, where rulers seem to be everybody's chat, based on personal knowledge (not too hard on Glantri if you're just a 1st lvl mage or one ofthe plenty of civil servants) or on the official rumormill... Just a fluttering idea Andr�s ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 22:17:33 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Eshriel Orcslayer Subject: Re: OD&D ships for 2E MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eshriel Orcslayer wrote: > > -Being relatively new to the list I lately (and recently beginning to run=20= a > nautical campaign) if anyone had converted the ships found in the > RC/Minrothad/Ierendi to 2E "ships and the sea" style? Yes, I did - should this be in a post (my ship stats) or offlist to the dude him/herself? is it it of general relevance or not? Or am I, by even asking that, maintaining a not-necessarily-true picture of list policing? >> Me, I was just curious... because I am working on it myself and I wanted=20 to see what other people had done.. and I don't have time to sort through=20 years of old postings hoping to run across it. I figured SOMEONE had alread= y=20 done it and figured someone would just point me in the right direction on=20 where to find it. I'm not trying to make anyone do any extra work but I=20 thought questions like that were what the mailing list is for. borrowed from the Wolf "Considering half the topics on this list are about corporations and=20 politics=A0 crap I think this is a more relevant topic of what this list is=20 about." >Is hoping this isn't what this list is all about... I can go anywhere and=20 find topics on corps and politics. I'm more interested in second opinions/=20 new ideas for my campaigns. -Eshriel =20 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 13:16:13 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Francesco Defferrari Subject: Bush, Stephan and others topics... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, i think there isn't nothing wrong to speak about RW politics and its = similarity with mystaran politics.. IMO Stone was right telling George = not to be too much stern about what is topic and what is not... If many = people like to talk about something, then that IS topic, this list = belong to people who write in it or not ? Anyway the bush/stephan thread is very interesting, because we really = can't say if Bush is lawful good or lawful evil.. nor we can about = stephan... Politicians, presidents or kings is the same, are masters in = the art of hiding their true motivations and aims... I keep my opinions = regarding bush for myself, but about Stephan IMC i made him lawful = neutral, sometimes lawful good (i don't like rigidity regarding = alignments..) He is a fair ruler, and in the last years he even started = a more pro traladaran policy, inspired by Korrigan (i always saw him as = a good man), even if he acquired the enmity of Kelvin, now the leader of = the thyatian party... (Oderbry and Von Hendriks were killed IMC many = years ago during failed rebellions against Stephan). But as we all know = he is sometimes a little naive and fail to see some injustices in his = kingdom... Nowadays i am quite intrigued by the idea of make him a evil ruler who = always hid his true nature... as was posted here times ago... but i = don't think that i will do that eventually... Really in Mystara is very difficult, as in the real world , to know what = is the true nature of a man... You can only judge his actions, but you = will never be sure that you saw all his actions, you will never be sure = that your opinion about a man is the right opinion...and that you really = know him... That kind of uncertainty is something that make mystara what it is... Francesco "What can change the nature of a man ?" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 16:16:03 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Freeport In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: > To Both: If either of you (or others) would be > interested in my "modified > timeline" I'm still be happy to share it off list > -- I've already done so > with two or three other list members. :-) I'd be interested in that too! Any reason why you chose not to post it on list? Havard ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 20:02:58 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Political Rantings etc. Whew... Made it back from the dead. My computer did. Not me. I hope this mail reaches you in plain text, still working on a few problems here. Checking up on the recent posts to this list, I unfortunately find that this list apparently has degenerated into a forum for posting political opinions. While I appreciate that some people are trying to turn this into an on-topic discussion, most of it seems to be totally off-topic from my POV. Also, it makes no sense to me. Fx. if I say that Poul Nyrup and his recent policies can be compared to Prince Kol and his policies, only Jens (the other Danish list member) will at least have a clue what I'm talking about (Nyrup is the Danish prime minister). While I may know a bit more about the president of the USA than you people know about the Danish prime minister, I don't know enough to compare him or his policies to Stefan. I certainly don't know enough about him to appreciate comments that might be humorous (or not, what do I know?). I think (or rather hope) that most other list members feel the same way. So, what am I getting at? Since I'm not the list moderator I can't order you to stop it. I can only ask that you please reconsider posting your personal opinions on your native politicians (unless you also go into the exact details of their policies, which I'm sure would be way off-topic); as the late (list-wise) George Hrabovsky put it, to "quit wasting my bandwidth". Please. I'm asking nicely. And Aaron, great job on the last Houses of Darokin (at least somebody's not only on-topic, but creatively so)! I might have more comments, when I find some time to read them properly (could have started by using the time I spent writing this mail...). Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 14:08:43 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: Bush, Stephan and others topics... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You bring up some very good points about alignments. I had originally thought to retort that GWB is lawful good, especially when compared to his predecessor (Who I was thinking would be lawful evil...since he does what he wants...but has a plan). In general I think the spirit of America tends toward the lawful despite our origins in revolution. When you consider many of the local laws that sprang up in America's infancy, despite the incredible freedom afforded by the Constitution, it seems almost odd just how lawful the culture was. Anyway, I'm getting far off the point I saw in your message. So here it is... In my campaign I've been moving away from alignments. This was a decision I came to very slowly. It dawned on me over several years that real people don't have alignments. Every single decision is a decision and every single choice is a choice. What makes good good and what makes evil evil? Recently I read "Confessions" by Saint Augustine. In that book, he tackles the same question. The whole book is about his conversion to Christianity. In his youth he was a hellraiser. His father sent him to school to learn rhetoric. His mother had converted to Christianity and steadfastly prayed for both him and his father. Augustine apparently did many naughty things as a lad...but its difficult to be sure precisely what it was that he did. He doesn't really dwell on the past in Confessions, rather he talks more about his joy in his new life. The descriptions he gives though of life in that time and place are pretty cool. He became involved with some of the cults of the day and that makes for some of the more interesting bits, where he compares their view of God with the early Church's view of God. At one point, he talks about the nature of evil. He comes to the conclusion that evil does not exist on the same level as good. Good and evil are not two opposing sides of the same coin. He uses a metaphor involving a piece of fruit. The fruit sustains life. Its good. Any spoilage is bad. It hurts the fruit. The fruit can exist without rot or spoilage. But rot and spoilage cannot exist without anything to feed off of. So this brings me back around to the nature of alignments. Whereas a real human being can sink into debauchery and then make a decision to turn his life around...a high level bad guy can't do that without being penalized. Alignments set up mortal society into 4 (5) quarters. You're lawful good, or you're lawful evil, or you're chaotic evil, or you're lawful evil (Or the most irritating of moderates...true neutral). There is a more solid boundary seperating people from each other than in the real world. In Mystara, the paladin is truly a better person than the evil wizard. After all, we know the paladin is lawful good and the evil wizard is lawful evil. But in the real world we are all flawed and no one is inherently better than anyone else. In the real world we care more about actions and intentions than we do about whether a person is born in a certain place, or is of a certain race. Two clarifications though...I do feel Mystara does the best in getting away from the flaws in the alignments system. In Mystara you really can't say "He's an orc, therefore he must be evil". Yeah, they have that tendency...but we know that a good orc can exist. The second clarification is...yes, some flawed people make the flawed decision to care more about whether a person is a particular race or not...but that's not based on reality, its based on opinion. And the second I start thinking I'm better than those flawed people, I deny my own flaws and sink to their level. Anyway, enough serious stuff for now. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francesco Defferrari" To: Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 7:16 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] Bush, Stephan and others topics... Hello, i think there isn't nothing wrong to speak about RW politics and its similarity with mystaran politics.. IMO Stone was right telling George not to be too much stern about what is topic and what is not... If many people like to talk about something, then that IS topic, this list belong to people who write in it or not ? Anyway the bush/stephan thread is very interesting, because we really can't say if Bush is lawful good or lawful evil.. nor we can about stephan... Politicians, presidents or kings is the same, are masters in the art of hiding their true motivations and aims... I keep my opinions regarding bush for myself, but about Stephan IMC i made him lawful neutral, sometimes lawful good (i don't like rigidity regarding alignments..) He is a fair ruler, and in the last years he even started a more pro traladaran policy, inspired by Korrigan (i always saw him as a good man), even if he acquired the enmity of Kelvin, now the leader of the thyatian party... (Oderbry and Von Hendriks were killed IMC many years ago during failed rebellions against Stephan). But as we all know he is sometimes a little naive and fail to see some injustices in his kingdom... Nowadays i am quite intrigued by the idea of make him a evil ruler who always hid his true nature... as was posted here times ago... but i don't think that i will do that eventually... Really in Mystara is very difficult, as in the real world , to know what is the true nature of a man... You can only judge his actions, but you will never be sure that you saw all his actions, you will never be sure that your opinion about a man is the right opinion...and that you really know him... That kind of uncertainty is something that make mystara what it is... Francesco "What can change the nature of a man ?" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 19:45:43 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Federico Kaftal Subject: Ogg.: [MYSTARA] disinformation about D&D (not OT IMHO) Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 I don't think it's worth trying to protest against those idiots once more, Francesco: we just risk to advertise them - probably silence is the best reaction: everything reasonable has already been said, written, debated on this subject. Read this: http://www.treemme.org/LABIRINTO/stop-non-sense/ There's also an ENGLISH version accessible from that link. It's damn good! Cheers, Federico "The mother of the idiots is always pregnant" _____________________________________________ Il Fri, 08 June 2001, Francesco Defferrari ha scritto: > > Hello, > i write particulary to the italians readers of the MML, because at the url http://kwcinema.play.kataweb.it/ (then search "Dungeons and Dragons" then "prova a cercare dungeons and dragons tra gli articoli" ) > there is an article about the D&D movie that says how D&D brought young people to satanism, homicide and suicide...in Usa and in Italy... I know that there are not many good things to say about the D&D movie, but that is the kind of disinformation against which players should fight... Besides that url is one of the most important italian server and sites, not a little group of religious fanatics.. I and my friends have written to the site ( e mail kwcinema@kataweb.it ) to remonstrate against the article. I encourage other italian players to do the same. > Excuse me if someone thinks that i'm off topic, but IMHO we should always speak against that kind of disinformation... > Here is the text of the article, (in italian) judge by yourself... > > > Allarme negli Usa per l'uscita di 'Dungeons and Dragons' > > Secondo gli psichiatri il film, ispirato al vecchio videogame, potrebbe scatenare violenze e suicidi tra i giovanissimi > > Tornano i draghi e risvegliano vecchi incubi. Dungeons and Dragons, capostipite negli anni '80 del fenomeno mondiale dei giochi di ruolo, � approdato in versione cinematografica nelle sale degli Usa ed ha allarmato gli psichiatri: c'� il rischio che anche il film, come avvenne con il gioco, scateni violenze e suicidi tra i giovanissimi. > "Questo film probabilmente provocher� enorme dolore", ha messo in guardia Herbert Schreier, primario di psichiatria all'Ospedale pediatrico di Oakland, in California. "E' molto seducente e qualche ragazzino ne rester� totalmente irretito". Il film � una sagra degli effetti speciali, con una trama che i critici hanno definito "estremamente debole", legata ad una serie di avventure attraverso mondi paralleli, imperi minacciati, draghi, castelli e prigioni e un'overdose di magia. Nonostante un cast di buoni attori, tra cui Bruce Payne, e una breve apparizione di una star come Jeremy Irons, la versione hollywoodiana di 'Dungeons and Dragons' non sembra destinata ad essere ricordata come un capolavoro del cinema. Ma il timore � che passi alla storia per episodi tragici analoghi a quelli che accompagnarono il successo del gioco. > I draghi conquistarono l'America tra la fine degli anni '70 e l'inizio degli '80, primo di una lunga serie di giochi di ruolo che conobbero il loro declino solo con l'esplosione dei videogames e di Internet. Il gioco consisteva in realt� soltanto in un libro di istruzioni e magie che spiegava come dividersi i ruoli tra i partecipanti, chiamati ad immedesimarsi per giorni, a volte per mesi, nei personaggi che interpretavano: il mago, l'elfo, il guerriero, il ladro e cos� via. Al vertice del successo, 'Dungeons and Dragons' arriv� ad essere praticato negli Usa da 4 milioni di persone tra i 12 e i 25 anni. > Ben presto esplosero anche gli effetti collaterali. Ragazzini che uccidevano i compagni di giochi "perch� incarnavano il Male" e andavano quindi eliminati. Adolescenti come Sean Sellers, 16 anni, che perdevano il contatto con la realt� perch� ormai irretiti da fantasie sataniste: Sean alla fine degli anni Ottanta uccise tre persone, tra cui la madre, e nel febbraio del 1999 � stato giustiziato per quei delitti. "Questo film riaprir� vecchie ferite", ha detto al 'New York Post' Louis Howland, il cui fratello di 11 anni fu ucciso da un amico che lo riteneva "un demone maligno". Anche l'Italia fu raggiunta, negli anni '90, dalle polemiche legate a 'Dungeons and Dragons'. I suicidi a breve distanza di tempo di due ragazzi a Latina e Venezia, nel 1996, scatenarono una campagna contro i giochi di ruolo, ritenuti responsabili delle morti e diedero il via ad inchieste giudiziarie. > La data d'uscita del film in Italia non � stata ancora decisa. > > > Francesco > > "What can change the nature of a man ?" > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. AltaVista Free email service ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 13:36:27 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Please nix the politix Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I'd like to echo the sentiment expressed in emails by folks like Jacob Skytte. That is, while I do not profess to be list ogre and don't want to stifle anyone's free speech, I *ask* that people discontinue the threads on Bush and other RW politicians. If people are making comparisons to Mystaran figures, that may be on topic and potentially very interested, but making such comparisons requires many presumptions about the motivations, alignment, competence, etc. of these RW figures which others may disagree with vehemently. For instance, if one were to suggest that Karameikos is like Bush because both are well-meaning but not particularly bright, a Bush supporter might find this offensive because of the presumed "fact" that Bush is stupid, and Bush opponents might find offensive the presumed "fact" that Bush has the good intentions. The poltical discussion has gotten to be quite offensive to me, and I believe many others find it at least irritating and inappropriate for the list. I tried to make a tongue-in-cheek comment earlier suggesting that if this politics stuff went on I'd be forced to chime in with my views (which I unfortunately did to an extent with that very comment). I'm resisting and deleting political commentary from this email as I write it, and I'm pointing out this frustration because it's precisely why I'm asking this RW poltics stuff to stop. I believe the political discussions are inappropriate because many do not want to see any of it and I feel forced to either a) let the propaganda get distributed to hundreds of people unchallenged by dissenting opinion or b) contribute to the problem by responding with my own propaganda. I've been put in that position before and I really, really hate it. And I'm not alone in wanting this to stop, so please consider nixing the politix as favor to all who don't want to hear it or are biting their tongues out of respect for the rest. Thanks, David dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 23:21:54 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: Please nix the politix MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >And I'm not alone in wanting this to stop, so please consider nixing the politix as favor to all who don't want to hear it or are biting their tongues out of respect for the rest. Agreed!!! In my previous email I was just musing about the Mystara possibilities of population getting a perception of their leaders (the real high-ups) On a slightly polemical note, I got module X10 a few months ago; all my previous knowledge about the Master came from X4 and X5 plus later products (quite scant in illustrations), and I got shocked to see that the 2 pics of Hosadus are a painstakingly accurate portrait of the late Ayatollah Homeini of Iran! I checked the dates of the module, and it seems that the Master's War was quite an anti-Iran propaganda writeup (still it's a quite ok module): as per the alliance numbers of the KW nations, Ethengar and Ylaruam are likely to ally with Hule against the Western-looking nations, chiefly Darokin (which as far as I can grasp has a quite US flavor in GAZ11, take the Capitol-clone building, plus the street names in the map and its leader being a Chancellor/President who has to be extremely rich to reach the charge in democratic election). Also, I noted, or maybe that's just an opinion, that, even when Mystara is quite a unique setting inasmuch as the moral grounds are "grey" and all nations may have their share of nobility and purpose (unlike B/W places like Dragonlance or FR), it seems to me that GAZ products tend to present the "younger" nations (like Darokin or Karameikos) in a more morally-solid way than older places, like Thyatis and Alphatia, and that RW inspired puns and caricatures tend to be more extreme when dealing with non-US topics: the Storm Soldiers verge the point of distastefulness (I've elliminated them from my campaign, guess that some things are not to be frivolized in a RPG) and Glantri is like the hugest amount of European stereotypes all put together in that tiny mountain country (flamenco light-headed duelling elves, bullfighting, miser Scots, militaristic steel-foundry Germans, wine-loving artsy French, Italians taken out of Quo Vadis? mixed up with Sicily Mafia, debauched English aristocrats, etcetc, lots of national rules, slow bureaucracy, unending political squabbling amongst rulers, a small region which cannot reach unity...); I DO love Glantri, at times the caricature is a nice RW parody, at times it's just clich�, but I like having my campaign there; if parody is good, I like enjoying it. And, to do justice, TSR made a big caricature of a big US stereotype: the "paradise resorts" (like Kali, Florida and Hawaii) and the big "hero/celebrity" myths, a mix-up of Hollywood and Disneyland. Pity the product does not flesh out as well as Glantri does. And this survey could go on, maybe someday we should come up with an academic work of "80s sociopolitical views as portrayed in the D&D Known World" So, I don't wonder at the occasional in-list rant about KW-RW politics, TSR started it all, and maybe that's an added bonus for a Mystara campaign! With this, I'm not encouraging wild and likely offensive political discussion, I just meant its possible interest for particular gaming groups who don't push comments in a list full of: a) people with different political ideas b) people from all over the world with varying degrees of information on American and World politics. Andr�s ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 19:38:08 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Castille Baromon de Preto Subject: Re: Please nix the politix MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit True, this line has caused some flames. Besides the stepping on peoples toes to make fun of political figures, RW politics is a great resource for gaming. Maybe we are not just ready to play on current history just yet. ;) Castille Baramon de Preto Mage and General Keeper of the Cask & Barrel ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 10:03:56 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Ancient One Organization: NOLAN P and I Subject: Re: Please nix the politix MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We should probably just undertake not to mention / open the betting on real world religion, politics or sexuality, as is the case in the better sort of club or society. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 18:17:40 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "Jenni A.M. Merrifield" Organization: strawberryJAMM Designs Subject: Re: Freeport In-Reply-To: <20010609141603.23128.qmail@web13103.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 9 Jun 2001, at 16:16, Havard Faanes wrote: > Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: > > > To Both: If either of you (or others) would be > > interested in my "modified > > timeline" I'm still be happy to share it off list > > -- I've already done so > > with two or three other list members. :-) > > I'd be interested in that too! > Any reason why you chose not to post it on list? Well, yes, as I said in my note, three of my five players actively read the MML and their characters are not necessarily fully aware of the "true" history of Ierendi. Though, I suppose I could send it to the list with a great big "SPOILER" warning up front... hmmmm...... Oh, what the heck: SPOILER WARNING ........ SPOILER WARNING ......... SPOILER WARNING Would the "alter egos" for Alisandro Manre, Cian Ionescu and Tanen Chossum please REFRAIN from reading any of the following text. Much thanks, Jenni "The DM" END SPOILER WARNING ... END SPOILER WARNING ... END SPOILER WARNING And just to be totally anal about this: S P O I L E R S P A C E Okay, now that /that/ is out of the way ... Here follows my "History of Ierendi (Modified)" for the reading pleasure of the MML. I hope it proves useful to some. [and if Derek, Rich or RW have read this far -- SHAME ON YOU!] First, a few notes regarding my campaign, which have had some effect on how I derived this modified timeline: 1. I have no intention of running WotI. 2. My campaign started at Klarmont 1, 1005 AC and the "Death in Freeport" adventure was started early in the morning on Klarmont 8th. 3. I've attempted to merge useful and interesting details from the original Ierendi timeline with significant details of the City of Freeport in general and "Death in Freeport" in particular. I'm hoping that the follow-up modules will snap in without further modification, but I don't have them yet, so I make no promises. ;-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- /Historical Timeline of Ierendi/ ---- Pre- 0 AC: Refer to Gaz 4, Kingdom of Ierendi, p5 0 AC: First Emperor of Thyatis is crowned 570 AC: First settlement on the islands is started on Island of Ierendi by cast-offs from The Five Shires. Island is already inhabited by small tribes of native aboriginal peoples. 571 AC: Thyatis establishes prisons on five islands where cast-offs settled 600 AC: Mad Creeg (aka Captain Creeg Drac) leads a rebellion among the prisoners found on the islands of Ierendi. With native co-operation, Mad Creeg's improvised army drives Thyatians from the islands. 602 AC: Mad Creeg goes about claiming all the islands of Ierendi to be under his control and declares himself the first Sea Lord of Ierendi. 604 AC: Mad Creeg forms the Captains' Council as a "cabinet of advisers". Consists of 12 Captains based out of Ierendi City (pirates and privateers really) who were appointed by Mad Creeg, future members will either be nominated in advance by their predecessor, taking over when they chose to retire (or died), or will be appointed by the other members of the Council. 625 AC: Mad Creeg realizes that he can not start a dynasty as he is getting old and his only child, a son, is too young and inexperienced for the Captains' Council to accept. Creeg Drac names Captain "Black Toes" Cromey (another "old hand") as his successor. He also sets a law that says the current Sea Lord's nomination for his successor must first be approved by the Captains' Council. 634 AC: Black Toes assumes rulership upon the death of his friend Mad Creeg. He marries (a much younger) Kethy Matrongle from Glantri. 644 AC: Successive military expeditions by Thyatians are defeated by islanders with aid of Honor Island war fleets. 649 AC: Black Toes chooses to nominate his wife as his successor. She is approved by the Captains' Council. 650 AC: First naval school is established in main island to train sailors for battle. 681 AC: Ierendi navy is up to full strength and is capable of fully defending the islands. 691 AC: The Rise of the Ierendian Navy: With the help of the Honor Island magicians, the Ierendians develop magical-technological engines of war to enhance the power of the Ierendian Navy. 713 AC: The first advanced war ships and galleys of the navy engaged. They utterly destroy a Thyatian patrol. The Ierendian Navy achieves instant pre- eminence among the naval powers of Mystara. 775 AC: After a major uprising of merchants, the Sea Lord and Captains' Council agrees to some limitations on their power, and to the popular democratic election of the Sea Lord. 790 AC: The annual election ceremony becomes an established tradition for revelry and popular celebration. Once the results are announced, the city of Ierendi puts on a series of contests and tournaments in the name of the new Sea Lord or Lady. There are usually prizes that make participating worth an adventurer's while, plus winners gain the right to join the Adventurers Guild. The Honor Island magicians offer aid in sponsoring and designing the contests. 935 AC: The election for Sea Lord is officially opened up to any member of the Adventurer's Guild or any Sea Captain who is based out of Ierendi. In either case, they must also be willing to swear allegiance to the Captain's Council and Ierendi before being allowed to run. 957 AC: Haradith of the Tall Cedars is the first non-Ierendian to win an election as Sea Lady. Her repeated successes in 12 of the next 14 years make her a national heroine, and a symbol of Ierendi's open-door policy toward immigration. 967 AC: Haradith and the Captains' Council propose construction on a Breakwater to be built around the harbour for the city of Ierendi. It is expected to take six years to complete. 968-974 AC: Construction on the break water around Ierendi Harbour. It is completed on time and under budget. 975 AC: Marten Drac, a descendant of Mad Creeg Drac is elected as Sea Lord. He is rumoured to have used blackmail and assassination in his rise to power, and he most certainly does so to maintain his position. Most ominously, in his first year, he drove through a new law, over the objections of the Captains' Council, that abolished the free elections and /required/ that the Sea Lord of Ierendi be a descendant of the original Captain Drac. 989 AC: Marten Drac brings Ierendi to the brink of economic collapse: A series of burdensome duties and taxes fattened his coffers but drove away many merchants and tourists. The city and the nation it is the capitol of is saved from complete disaster by Marten's youngest brother, Anton, who becomes Sea lord on Marten's death at the relatively young age of 42 (as a result of his excesses and over-indulgences of almost every kind). Anton Drac proves to be cut from the same cloth as his illustrious ancestor Mad Creeg Drac and was able to undo the worst excesses of Marten's rule by abolishing the unfair duties, as well as providing incentives to win back lost trade and tourists. Anton's one failing was that he did not abolish Marten's succession law, despite regular urging to do so by the Captains' Council. 990 AC: The Academy of Naval Science is founded on site of original school to be used as the official training institute for the navy of Ierendi 994 AC: Anton, in a bold attempt to improve relations with the many international neighbours of the Islands of Ierendi, announces plans to sign treaties with Darokin, Five Shires, and Karmeikos for the purpose of providing mutual naval aid in times of war. Preparations and meetings to discuss the terms are to happen over the winter. Toward the end of that winter, Sea Lord Anton Creeg is killed by a single yellow-feathered arrow enchanted with death magic while on a routine inspection of the Naval fleet. Ierendi is left without a Sea Lord for the first time since Mad Creeg united the islands. Captain Milton Drac, a distant cousin of Anton, appears as if from nowhere and is summarily installed as Sea Lord of Ierendi just a few days before the new year starts. Milton's first official act is to cancel the plans for all the shared treaties -- the Ierendi fleet will continue to restrict its activities to guarding its own waters and commerce and nothing more. 995 AC: Sea Lord Milton uses national funds to start the construction of The Lighthouse of Drac, a monument to his own ambition, on an islet located less than a quarter mile from the mouth of Ierendi harbour. 1000 AC: Tourism and Mercantile activities were revived with Anton, but have taken another serious downturn as Milton sinks more and more money into the construction of "The Lighthouse of Drac" or "Milton's Folly" as it is more commonly known. Despite Milton's obsession with the construction of "his lighthouse", the Captains' Council still tries to govern Ierendi as best they can. Their task is arduous, and some Services are degenerating, but the Islands of Ierendi are still hawked as "the place for adventurers to visit". 1005 AC: Time of my campaign. Milton's Folly, now under construction for ten years, is expected to be completed in the summer of this year. "Death in Freeport" occurs at the very start of the Shipping season (somewhere near the beginning of Klarmont) -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield -=> strawberryJAMM <=- Benevolent Despot of the Mystara 3E Project M3E Project: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mystara3E ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 21:38:37 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Bush, Stephan and others topics... In-Reply-To: <001001c0f10f$396b2320$3063d8cd@jdaly> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, Jeff Daly wrote: > hurts the fruit. The fruit can exist without rot or spoilage. But rot and > spoilage cannot exist without anything to feed off of. Actually, Augustine's point is not completely valid. The Fruit by itself is neither good nor bad. Think of a bar of chocolate. Alone, apart from a moral influence, it is neither good nor bad. When a being capable of defining for itself good and bad comes along, that being pronounces the object "good" or "bad". The problem comes in with which being does the definition. Humans would say chocolate is "good". Dogs would sharply disagree, calling chocolate "bad". The humans would then turn around, and being the egoist beasts that they are, call the dog "stupid", and proceed to eat the chocolate, which by now has gone stale, which the human now considers "bad", and the dog considers "good" - probably because the human got what he deserved ^_^. I guess my point is this: Objects are neither good or bad. They just _are_. It is the observer that proclaims "good" and "bad". > In Mystara, the paladin is truly a better person than the evil wizard. > After all, we know the paladin is lawful good and the evil wizard is lawful > evil. As a counterpoint, an overly boisterous and domineering paladin, who sticks so close to his alignment as to become inflexible is no better than the evil wizard. paladin - "We can't sneak up on the wizard and kill him.. we must face him with honor!" paladin - "Out ye vile wizard and face me!" I don't like the 3e paladin at all, anyway. Paladins should be more _lawful_ i.e. rule and law abiding, than good. The oD&D rules for paladins were much better IMHO. > better than anyone else. In the real world we care more about actions and > intentions than we do about whether a person is born in a certain place, or > is of a certain race. That is not always true. Everyone is a bigot sometimes, and everyone is discriminated against sometimes. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 22:39:08 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: Bush, Stephan and others topics... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The fruit was a metaphor. No, fruit and rot are neither good nor bad. It was a metaphor to illustrate a point. The point was made in a very long logical argument. No, I won't transcribe the argument right now. Your disagreement with me seems to be so that you can turn around and agree with me...that objects are not inherently good or bad any more than people are...its the actions and the intentions that matter. So basically, I'm always right. Okay, I can live with that. ----- Original Message ----- From: "SteelAngel" To: Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 9:38 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Bush, Stephan and others topics... > On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, Jeff Daly wrote: > > > hurts the fruit. The fruit can exist without rot or spoilage. But rot and > > spoilage cannot exist without anything to feed off of. > > Actually, Augustine's point is not completely valid. > > The Fruit by itself is neither good nor bad. Think of a bar of chocolate. > Alone, apart from a moral influence, it is neither good nor bad. When a > being capable of defining for itself good and bad comes along, that being > pronounces the object "good" or "bad". The problem comes in with which > being does the definition. > > Humans would say chocolate is "good". > Dogs would sharply disagree, calling chocolate "bad". > > The humans would then turn around, and being the egoist beasts that they > are, call the dog "stupid", and proceed to eat the chocolate, which by now > has gone stale, which the human now considers "bad", and the dog considers > "good" - probably because the human got what he deserved ^_^. > > I guess my point is this: Objects are neither good or bad. They just > _are_. It is the observer that proclaims "good" and "bad". > > > In Mystara, the paladin is truly a better person than the evil wizard. > > After all, we know the paladin is lawful good and the evil wizard is lawful > > evil. > > As a counterpoint, an overly boisterous and domineering paladin, who > sticks so close to his alignment as to become inflexible is no better than > the evil wizard. > > paladin - "We can't sneak up on the wizard and kill him.. we must face him > with honor!" > > > > paladin - "Out ye vile wizard and face me!" > > castle> > > > I don't like the 3e paladin at all, anyway. Paladins should be more > _lawful_ i.e. rule and law abiding, than good. The oD&D rules for paladins > were much better IMHO. > > > better than anyone else. In the real world we care more about actions and > > intentions than we do about whether a person is born in a certain place, or > > is of a certain race. > > That is not always true. Everyone is a bigot sometimes, and everyone is > discriminated against sometimes. > > > Ethan > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 22:20:49 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: PCs as Diplomats- The Gritty Details MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "III" > > A number of Mystaran modules make the assumption that the PCs, > who have taken on temporary roles as ambassadors for a Mystaran > nation, will be given free access to the heads of state of other Mystaran > nations. Red Arrow, Black Shield and Talons of Night spring > immediately to mind. It may be easy to walk in and speak to the > King of Ostland, but I don't imagine anybody gets to talk to the > Emperor of Thyatis without an invitation. Has anyone done any work > on the layers of bureaucracy that surround the centers of power in the > nations of the Known World? I think that a lot would depend on how important an "urgent message from foreign emissaries" would be to the ruler in question, given which nation those emissaries are representing (Darokin in "Red Arrow, Black Shield", Norwold in "Talons of Night"). In these two cases, I suspect that matters are serious enough to warrant some attention from the Thyatian Emperor (although if I recall correctly, Thincol does keep the Darokinian ambassadors waiting for a few days and even then will at best send a relatively small number of low quality troops). But outside of these unique situations, I would suspect that player characters empowered as emissaries of a given government will in most cases find that a ruler will see them when he wants to, not when they want to -- in other words, if the matter is of importance to the ruler, he will see them immediately even if they want to put off the meeting, but if the matter is more important to the nation represented by the PCs, then the ruler will probably keep them waiting for as long as the red tape holds out (which probably is not very long in Ostland or Ethengar but could be several weeks in Thyatis or Alphatia). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 22:31:30 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Thyatian isolation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Ville V Lahde" > > THE PROBLEM at hand: > > For the future of my campaign it would be best if I could find a good > reason for Thyatis to start a policy of isolation. They would close > borders to Karameikos, Darokin and The Reaches. > I just need some good reasons for the isolation policy. I've thought about > many possible examples, but none have felt like just the right thing: Here is a fairly simple one: The Thyatian invasion has crushed and discredited the Kin. The Preceptors are now the dominant philosophy in Ylaruam, and they have so far been totally unsuccessful in their efforts to persuade Thyatis to loosen their grip on their country. A small handful of Preceptors are able to escape into the west and make their case in Darokin. The Darokinians accept their arguments, and soon most other nations of southeastern Brun are in agreement with them. Together, they apply diplomatic pressure on Thyatis to at least grant autonomy to Ylaruam. However, Thyatis sees no distinction between the fanatical Kin and the far more reasonable Preceptors and thus flatly refuses. This rift between Thyatis and the rest of the Known World eventually leads Thyatis to isolate itself increasingly from other nations. I was tempted to mention a couple of real world examples, but I think you can come up with a few on your own without help. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 22:35:26 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Wish MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Angelo Bertolli" > > In the Cyclopedia it states that an 18 WIS is needed for casting wish for > both magic-users and clerics. Is this a type-o? I would naturally expect > an 18 INT for mages, but maybe there's something special about WIS? Maybe > clerics are more likely to get wish? It clearly is a typo (or, to be more precise, a cut and paste error). The earlier boxed set edition of the same rules requires 18 INT for a magic-user to cast Wish, and also had a lower minimum level (33, I think). A further note -- in Gaz 5 and Gaz 13 it is possible for Elves to cast the Wish spell even though they cannot advance past level 20 as spellcasters (but then, they do have a different spell progression table as well). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 23:02:27 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Please nix the politix MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Castille Baromon de Preto" > True, this line has caused some flames. Besides the stepping on > peoples toes to make fun of political figures, RW politics is a great > resource for gaming. Maybe we are not just ready to play on > current history just yet. ;) I think you hit the nail on the head -- if you must mention real world political figures, it is probably best that they be dead as well as either discredited or irrelevant if you want to avoid a flame war. Thus, anything said about a current world leader is likely to start an argument between his friends and foes, but you are probably fairly safe in saying whatever you like about Stalin and Hitler (both dead and discredited) or Caesar and Charlemagne (both dead and mostly irrelevant to modern politics). One exception: it is a very bad idea to compare any poster to any political figure in the dead/discredited category. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 23:13:45 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Ylari and Nithian pantheon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "DM" > > "The device [the Pearl of Oblivion] was created at great expense of > power by the Old Man of the Sea, The Gnoll, and Zephyr, dedicated > Immortals who wished to reestablish the balance disturbed by the direct > interference of Thanatos (and his secret ally Corona) in the affairs of the > Nithian empire." Then again, the creation of that artifact is the sort of action that could never take place without the consent of a Council of five Hierarchs, one from each Sphere including Entropy. Since this action was taken to counter a plot by Thanatos (supported by Ranivorus), the Entropic Immortal on that Council had to be Atzanteotl, Hel, or Nyx -- and it would definitely be Hel if that action was taken by the Council of Mystara and that Council had not changed its membership since Nithian times. The only problem I would see with the equation "Gnoll = Ranivorus" is that Ranivorus helped Thanatos corrupt the Nithians -- so unless he was forced to help create this artifact as some sort of penance imposed by Hel, then Pflarr or some other as yet unnamed Immortal would be the best candidate to be "Gnoll". ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 00:53:00 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Mystaran uniqueness: Chosen vs. Proxy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A recent debate on the Planescape list suggests an item that would clearly contribute to the uniqueness of Mystara: Are the "Chosen" of the Forgotten Realms equivalent to the "Proxies" of Planescape? Regardless of the ultimate answer to that question, one feature of that debate seems to be that it is particularly irrelevant to Mystara. While it is possible for Mystaran Immortals to have offspring (WotI variant rules) or grant "Exalted" status to favored followers, there seems to be no way for them to grant power to mortals and then ensure that those mortals will remain loyal. As near as I can tell, the only way for an Immortal to retain mortal followers is to persuade them to serve his cause voluntarily and then remain consistent enough with his initial presentation so as to give those followers no cause to reconsider their original commitment. Few if any mortals would benefit enough from association with a particular Immortal that their loyalty could be counted on if the Immortal strays too far from the initial conditions of their recruitment. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 09:48:54 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Agathokles Subject: [GPD] Return of the Glantrian Personnel Divison MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Let the trumpets blare and the drums roll! After a long hiatus, due to the confinement of our ruling Archduke, Kit Navarro, to the plane of Water [i.e., lack of internet connection for our webmaster], the GPD is glad to announce is latest update. This has been one of the most massive updates in the history of the GPD, so let's go to the table of contents without delay. *From the Principality of Erewan, the odd couple from Clan Ellerovyn, Thendain Erewan and his wife, Esmeralda de Belcadiz y Erewan. *From the Principality of Fenswick, the obnoxious and corrupt son of the Archduke, Robert Beaumarys-Moorkroft. *From the Principality of Klantyre, we have another troubled scion of House Crownguard, Bruce McGregor, and few horrible writings from the sick mind of Prince Angus McGregor, entitled Necrology. We also have A Kaelic Tale and some facts about that illegal terrorist group, The Followers of the Claymore. *From the Principality of Aalban, the character of Viktoria von Drachenfels has been greatly revised, into something less than magical, and less than human... *From the destroyed Principality of Blackhill, an update to the last son of Silverston, Lathan Aendyr. *From Glantri City itself, a listing of the Glantrian Nobles AC 1000 for daytime politics, and a tale of mischief and mystery for a Night Out in Glantri. *And from the secret histories of the Principalities, the History of the Secret Craft of Dracology and the History of the Secret Craft of Necromancy are now revealed. *With so many Stories and Tales from all over the Principalities that need to be told, a new section has been devoted just for them. *Plus, changes in formatting of the links You may visit us at http://www.geocities.com/principalities_of_glantri/ So, in the words of Archduke Kit himself: "So go check out the site now! I promise the next update will be very soon! There's already so much stuff ready!" For the Glantrian Personnel Division, -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 02:58:45 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: disinformation about D&D (not OT IMHO) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Actually, the best reaction I've seen to the kind of people who think D&D is satanic is this link: http://www.co.jyu.fi/~np/gameofsatan/ (you might want to turn off your sound) Angelo Bertolli URL: http://members.fortunecity.com/abertoll ----- Original Message ----- From: "Federico Kaftal" Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 11:45 AM Subject: Ogg.: [MYSTARA] disinformation about D&D (not OT IMHO) > I don't think it's worth trying to protest against those idiots once more, Francesco: we just risk to advertise them - probably silence is the best reaction: everything reasonable has already been said, written, debated on this subject. > > Read this: > http://www.treemme.org/LABIRINTO/stop-non-sense/ > > There's also an ENGLISH version accessible from that link. It's damn good! > > Cheers, > > Federico > > > > "The mother of the idiots is always pregnant" > _____________________________________________ > > Il Fri, 08 June 2001, Francesco Defferrari ha scritto: > > > > > Hello, > > i write particulary to the italians readers of the MML, because at the url http://kwcinema.play.kataweb.it/ (then search "Dungeons and Dragons" then "prova a cercare dungeons and dragons tra gli articoli" ) > > there is an article about the D&D movie that says how D&D brought young people to satanism, homicide and suicide...in Usa and in Italy... I know that there are not many good things to say about the D&D movie, but that is the kind of disinformation against which players should fight... Besides that url is one of the most important italian server and sites, not a little group of religious fanatics.. I and my friends have written to the site ( e mail kwcinema@kataweb.it ) to remonstrate against the article. I encourage other italian players to do the same. > > Excuse me if someone thinks that i'm off topic, but IMHO we should always speak against that kind of disinformation... > > Here is the text of the article, (in italian) judge by yourself... > > > > > > Allarme negli Usa per l'uscita di 'Dungeons and Dragons' > > > > Secondo gli psichiatri il film, ispirato al vecchio videogame, potrebbe scatenare violenze e suicidi tra i giovanissimi > > > > Tornano i draghi e risvegliano vecchi incubi. Dungeons and Dragons, capostipite negli anni '80 del fenomeno mondiale dei giochi di ruolo, � approdato in versione cinematografica nelle sale degli Usa ed ha allarmato gli psichiatri: c'� il rischio che anche il film, come avvenne con il gioco, scateni violenze e suicidi tra i giovanissimi. > > "Questo film probabilmente provocher� enorme dolore", ha messo in guardia Herbert Schreier, primario di psichiatria all'Ospedale pediatrico di Oakland, in California. "E' molto seducente e qualche ragazzino ne rester� totalmente irretito". Il film � una sagra degli effetti speciali, con una trama che i critici hanno definito "estremamente debole", legata ad una serie di avventure attraverso mondi paralleli, imperi minacciati, draghi, castelli e prigioni e un'overdose di magia. Nonostante un cast di buoni attori, tra cui Bruce Payne, e una breve apparizione di una star come Jeremy Irons, la versione hollywoodiana di 'Dungeons and Dragons' non sembra destinata ad essere ricordata come un capolavoro del cinema. Ma il timore � che passi alla storia per episodi tragici analoghi a quelli che accompagnarono il successo del gioco. > > I draghi conquistarono l'America tra la fine degli anni '70 e l'inizio degli '80, primo di una lunga serie di giochi di ruolo che conobbero il loro declino solo con l'esplosione dei videogames e di Internet. Il gioco consisteva in realt� soltanto in un libro di istruzioni e magie che spiegava come dividersi i ruoli tra i partecipanti, chiamati ad immedesimarsi per giorni, a volte per mesi, nei personaggi che interpretavano: il mago, l'elfo, il guerriero, il ladro e cos� via. Al vertice del successo, 'Dungeons and Dragons' arriv� ad essere praticato negli Usa da 4 milioni di persone tra i 12 e i 25 anni. > > Ben presto esplosero anche gli effetti collaterali. Ragazzini che uccidevano i compagni di giochi "perch� incarnavano il Male" e andavano quindi eliminati. Adolescenti come Sean Sellers, 16 anni, che perdevano il contatto con la realt� perch� ormai irretiti da fantasie sataniste: Sean alla fine degli anni Ottanta uccise tre persone, tra cui la madre, e nel febbraio del 1999 � stato giustiziato per quei delitti. "Questo film riaprir� vecchie ferite", ha detto al 'New York Post' Louis Howland, il cui fratello di 11 anni fu ucciso da un amico che lo riteneva "un demone maligno". Anche l'Italia fu raggiunta, negli anni '90, dalle polemiche legate a 'Dungeons and Dragons'. I suicidi a breve distanza di tempo di due ragazzi a Latina e Venezia, nel 1996, scatenarono una campagna contro i giochi di ruolo, ritenuti responsabili delle morti e diedero il via ad inchieste giudiziarie. > > La data d'uscita del film in Italia non � stata ancora decisa. > > > > > > Francesco > > > > "What can change the nature of a man ?" > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > AltaVista Free email service > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 03:44:18 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: An adventure idea: Grave Robbers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The king/clerics of the town approach the characters telling them that there have been bodies missing in the graveyard. Seems someone is digging up the graves. Reason: There is a cult which believes in raising the dead. They're trying to set up another town nearby with all the raised bodies, to give the people a place to live. They are taking care of them and feeding them. However, to the clerics of your own town this is sacriledge... Angelo Bertolli URL: http://members.fortunecity.com/abertoll ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 15:03:34 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Eshriel Orcslayer Subject: Re: An adventure idea: Grave Robbers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanx for the idea.... I think I'm going to have to borrow that... *evilgrin* -Eshriel Orcslayer ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 15:08:59 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Alex Benson Subject: An adventure idea: Grave Robbers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <> admitedly i have certain reservations about this adventure idea. given the=20 brevity of the above description, i may be way out of line. anyway...here ar= e=20 some comments on the matter. 1) why would the clerics raise people to create a pool of refugees/colonists= ?=20 instead of investing the time and components (optional) to raise them, use=20 these same resources to promote the colonization of this new town.=20 2) grave robbing is a bit of a morale dilemma even in a fantasy setting. it=20 can cause a palading to fall. in RL it can lead to dark powers checks. IMO=20 clergy would abstain from this. if they were discovered it could cause the=20 locals to come down hard on them or at least. regardless, i think that grave= =20 robbing would be used only by the more dark religious sects. the revived=20 being kept more as slaves than willing colonists. 3) how does raising insure the colonists' participation? if raised the=20 recently revived may be gracious but they also may be more inclined to=20 resuming their former lives with their friends and family.=20 4) why does the cult want to create a new town? a cult may want to establish= =20 a communal type town of their own, but therein comes the problem of getting=20 the revived to be colonists and to adopt the ways of the cult.=20 a few suggestions. some of these place the cultists in a less than savory=20 light.... 1) the cult is at odds with the established town clergy. their free use of=20 the raise dead is opposed by the clergy because it undermines the costs to=20 have someone raised and offers a sense of immortality. the cult is oppressed= =20 by the clerics and the cult has been driven underground. they hope to raise=20 folks who will be gracious to their saviors and adopt their beliefs. those=20 that do are colonists and new members. those that don't are slain as=20 heretics....the cult seeing them as unworthy. plus...they were dead to begin= =20 with nothing really lost. 2) the cult is using a gaes or other incentive spell to force the raised=20 individuals to act as colonists. they see it as being for their own good and= =20 more reliable than simple gratitude. it also insures their silence. 3) the cult raises them using a spell/ritual that acts essentially like the=20 process that creates Lightening Zombies. you have sentient undead that don't= =20 rot and retain enough of their memories to act as citizens. however, they=20 lack a definative tie to their mortal lives. whether undead or revived,=20 memory and free will would be problems. anyway...there are some of my concerns. i'll leave it like that as i don't=20 want to seem like i am nitpicking. afterall (and as mentioned) the adventure= =20 plot is an idea.=20 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 15:09:11 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Alex Benson Subject: An adventure idea: The Assassin's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit inspired by the Grave Robber adventure I decided to go ahead and post this for some feedback. this adventure is one of several that I have been working on over the last few weeks. i'd like some feedback before finishing up and proceding to the maps and floorplans. premise: the Axetown slums of Thyatis City have been plagued by a series of slayings. given the state of the slums, official Thyatian intervention is deemed unwarranted. the PCs are hired to stop this series of deaths. i chose Thytais because there is some official material on the slums, Shadow Hand, and some supporting NPCs. if need be it can be moved to Glantri City or Mirros with some NPC and detail changes. adaption for use in Alphatian cities would be extra work as one has to create the criminal organizations and adapt them to operate under the auspices of magic. added detail can be found in "Den of Thieves" which details a thieves guid. what's going on: the victims are really associates of the criminal organization the Shadow Hand. some candid investigation will reveal that the victims were involved in the Hand. the assassin is the former chief assassin of the Shadow Hand. recently, he has had a falling out with the thieves guild and partakes a program of killings. these killings are to cause havoc within the Hand and allow him to escape Thyatian lands. also, the killings are payback for Hand transgressions against him. he secretly hopes that the killings will cause enough outrage from Thyatians that the government will become more involved and clean up Axetown, thus destroying the Hand's haven. Getting Involved: the PCs can become tasked with this task by several avenues. there is nothing to prevebnt the PCs from working for more than one employer or switching allegiances. in fact, such switches are encouraged as truths begin to come out during the investigations. 1) one NPC is a politician who has run afoul of the Hand and thinks that the assassin is a Hand agent terrorizing the slums to enforce Hand edicts. he hopes to use the PCs's investigations to destroy the Hand (impossible). 2) another politician is a true patriot and sees the Hand as a travesty as it operates unhindered within the very walls of the Thyatian capital. he and politician number #1 become allies during the adventure. 3) you have a group of feel good socialites sponsoring ways to make the slums better, especially the "poor slain victims". this coalition falls apart as the adventure unfolds and the truths begin to surface. 4) you have a group that is actually officially agents of the Shadow Hand. they want the assassin stopped as he is scaring the crap out of them. they will also want protection while the assassin is at large. ironically this group will be more helpful than any of the others. 5) the oddest NPC has got to be the renown adventurer Valinor. Valinor will hire the PCs and help them in their hunt of the assassin. as per DotE, Valinor is secretly the head of the Shadow Hand so his motivations are different from what he offers. as the adventurer, he professes a desire to help the slum dwellers. he will add that he has been approached by group #4 and one or both of the politicians. of course he has suitable excuses for not participating in the hunt himself. given his prestige in both identities, Valinor is his own spy on the status of the PCs. the adventure should not end with the removal or even discovery of Valinor's double identities. there is also a supporting cast of NPCs. one is a Thytian soldier who grew up in the slums and knows his way around. he has been offered to the PCs as a guide. nice guy but he hates the slums. there are also various street dwellers and such. even the assassin has a supporting cast of helpers to assist him in his quest. the assassin is a very complex character. as a NPC he is very powerful. one would expect such power from the chief assassin of the Shadow Hand. while the PCs may dislike his tactics, by the end of the adventure the PCs should have some sympathies for the assassin. he will not divulge info on Valinor's role with the Shadow Hand. to be honest i am debating between him not knowing who his former master is or having his silence secured by magic (Geas spell). the assassin is based upon a modified assassin's kit and fully decked with magical items. Plot Evolution: the hunt takes the PCs through the slums, pursuing the assassin. the PCs will be faced with every aspect of the slums. they will investigate and be investigated. they will pursue the assassin through the dark streets and alleyways, through the underground sewers and across the rooftops. all of which are well known to the assassin. their perspectives and allegiances will change as the investigation progresses. they will be placed in situations where they see Thyatian society at it best and worst. they will be handed scenarios where their actions decide the fate of slum dweller, criminal, assassin, and politician. Adventure Epilogue: depending on the PCs's actions they may find themselves the pawns of the Shadow Hand or the sworn enemies of the Hand. most of the scenarios i have run fall somewhere in between. deviation derides from actions and alignments. in the end, the PCs will find that the slayings stop but nothing else changes. IMO PCs should not always succeed. IMO the Shadow Hand is too large and too powerful to be toppled so easily. more tedious tasks may be in settling things between the Shadow Hand and politician #1. for that matter, the Hand will probably enact its own program of retribution to those that sought to destroy them. as far as the Shadow Hand goes, they will oblige any rewards offered to the PCs. however, if the PCs have managed to learn too much about the organization they may be seen as a potential threat. conversly the PCs may find future employment from the Hand. alot depends on the group's alignment, the tasks, and how visual the Hand is in the matter. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 15:09:22 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Alex Benson Subject: An adventure idea: The Blood Game MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit here is another adventure. this one is inspired by my recent work on vampires. it is more in the development stage that the assassin one is. still, feedback would be appreciated. Premise: the PCs are off adventuring. their task is to storm the stronghold of a vampire and rescue several hostages. their noble task is quickly complicated as the adventure changes in a series of twists and turns. the adventure is currently generic and can be set in several locations. a more thorough NPC descript will be posted in the coming weeks to detail the main NPC. i have plans for her.....muh ha haha!!! What's Going On: the PCs's quest is a farce, part of a ruse initiated by the very undead that they are going against. the chief antagonist is the hostage, a nosferatu named Ayllsa (name subject to change). their employer is one of Ayllsa's minions. the ruse is initiated for several reasons. the first is to have some fun by manipulating the mortals. the second reason is to have some real adventurers test the stronghold's defenses for possible use at their real haven. third, Ayllsa likes interacting with humans. fourth, the nossies wish to see if the wandering adventurers are a real threat. fourth, secretly Ayllsa desires to have some of her minions cleaned out. in particular are a number of humanoids and mercenaries she hired to sieze the stronghold from its previous inhabitants. fifth, Ayllsa is always on the outlook for potential recruits....especially good looking males. sixth, PCs make good for good eating....a delicacy as compared to simple peasants. Adventure Evolution: there are five hostages including Ayllsa. the real hostages are members of the nossies's larder. none have seen Ayllsa as a nossie and do not think that she is anything but another hostage. the hostages have been moved to the stronghold from the nossies's real stronghold for the game. each has been fed upon and display varying degrees of physical weakness. they won't be much help to the PCs. the exception is Ayllsa who will portray herself as an adventurer. according to her, she was sent here by the PCs's employer a few days earlier and was captured. after retrieving her weapons and armor she will gladly join the party. as a party member she will pull her own weight with some of the stronghold defenders. she will be hesitant in regards to some (nossies). mostly she will act as protector towards the hostages. if she spots a potential recruit (DM's choice) she will steadfastly defend that PC even against most nossies. she will divulge tidbits of information, citing them as observations made in her incursion before being captured. in actuality, she is sizing the party up and leading them into a veritable maze of ambushes and secret passages. she is also seeking recruits from the party. ideally she will pick a primary and secondary recruit. based on ability and attractiveness. males are pegged to be consorts, females as servants (more on this later). Ayllsa will play the part of the adventurer as long as possible, even after moving them into position. however, her real identity will eventually come to light. she will give a girlish laugh and take gaseous form, letting her worn weapons and armor drop to the floor (potential for cool imagery). she will materialize elsewhere into another suit of armor and take command of her frontline defenders, most are her senior most minions. nossies will use the prepared maze environment to strike at the PCs. the DM should play the nossies as being more intent on capturing the PCs, especially any potential recruits. the nossies, especially Ayllsa, will use gaseous form to their advantage. the abundance of placed armor and weapons allow them to move about the complex while retaining melee combat capability. Ayllsa and her allies are toying with the PCs, this should become apparent very quickly. most of their success will come by dispatching low level minions or staving off attacks. Epilogue: a good party, using some good tactics, should be able to get away. that is really their goal, survival. live today to fight on tomorrow. asside from xp...gathered loot will be minimal. however, the adventure is not over yet. Ayllsa will develop a near obsession with the primary and secondary recruits and follow their adventures. she could easily be a reoccuring NPC. either as a secret sponsor, antagonist, or continuing to recruit them. the rest of the party is inconsequential unless they do something that really impresses her. if the PCs better prepare themselves and return to the stronghold, it will be empty of nossies. Ayssla will have moved her forces out shortly after the incident. her interest in the faciltiy was just for the game. the experience should be quite humbling to them. however, it can also provide some excellant roleplaying potential. it should also be a rude introduction to fighting undead, especially nossies. the DM should play upon the differences between nosferatu and vampires. the adventure is intentionally overpowered for the PCs. the unfinished stronghold map is IMO a masterpiece (modesty) in ambush tactics. i would suggest that the DM shows the players the map after the adventure as proof that they were out of their league. as mentioned above, Ayllsa (name subject to change) is a nossie. at the age of 18, she was embraced by the nosferatu Cestus (name subject to change). like many men, he was obsessed by her charm and beauty. he took her on the eve of her wedding, an arranged marriage she objected to. though Cestus initially had less than admirable intentions for her, he found himself unable to treat her as an undead slave concubine. instead, he adopted her as his daughter. as his daughter, he lavished upon her the greatest of gifts, knowlegde. over the years he hired scholars, mages, and warriors to impress upon her the skills and lore of the land. Ayllsa quickly absorbed this tutelage and mastered each in turn. finally, Cestus could teach her no more and like a parent seeing their child mature, he set her free upon the world. in Cestus she found a father, moreso than her biological sire who only saw her for her dowry potential. Ayllsa put her lessons to work. over the centuries she has amassed a fortune and established several estates. these estates support a variety of identities that allow her to live among humans. when moving to an estate, she presents herself as being a few years younger than she is. she will stay there for a few years until her lack of aging becomes obvious. then she moves on to another prepared estate and identity. this process has served her well. For the most part, Ayllsa has adapted well to being a nossie. it is all she really knows and her fondest memories occured after her being brought over. she has even managed to rationalize the need to feed on human blood while maintaining a sense of humanity. like many ancient undead, she is often bored. events like the Game are well planned diversions from the rigors of endless life. other ventures include merchantile trade ventures and some adventuring. she also has become a bit of a collector of armor and magic. her great thrill is the crafting of identities. this often includes merchantile trades to finance them. however it also requires establishing a base of operations to maintain the identities until she is ready to use them. her existance also has left some odd quirks. her upbringing has caused her to desire a family. she creates her ideal family by finding recruits. perhaps she a bit of a perfectionist or perhaps she realizes her folly, but she rarely keeps a family for long. she'll usually dispose of them in a humane manner if possible. another quirk is her romance life. as a mortal she never knew real love. she has kept a series of consorts but has become impatient with each. as her undead slaves she knows that their affections are not heartfelt. she seeks a soulmate, one that loves her willingly. little is known about Cestus. unlike Ayllsa he is less visual. however, he still walks the face of mystara. he visits her every so often. these visits see Ayllsa in the best of moods for months. in general, Ayllsa is still very much a teenage girl. however, she has centuries worth of experience to call upon. she is as comfortable using magic or steel in a fight. she loves toying with magic and has accumulated a wide variety of items. exotic weapons and armor also draw her interests. she has an extensive collection which she often displays as ornamentation. the displays allow her to use her favored tactic of gaseous form to dash between suits of armor. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 15:31:54 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Eshriel Orcslayer Subject: Theory Of Psionics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Personally I have always liked psionics but for a long time I never really found a really good way to introduce them into the magic rich world of Mystara but I thought I would share what I finally did: Psionics is the equivelant of witchcraft in this world, complete with the wonderful medieval "witch testing" and "purification" that went on in our RW. This mentality came about because: a. The original published psionics rules for 2E pretty much make wizards and priests defenseless vs. psionics (and only partially defended under the PO rules). b. Also only specialized clerical/wizard spells are capable of detecting psionic use. Which would make a lot of clerics/wizards very nervous about people running around with powers that they wouldn't be able to control. This is especially true in places like Alphatia/Glantri/Heldann where standard spellcasters are in abundance/politically powerful. 2. People fear what they do not understand... and Hate what they fear. 3. So began a long history of bad-mouthing and rumor spreading by politically powerful wizards and convincing sermonizing by religious leaders. 4. Which pretty much locks itself into the minds and hearts of the normal populace (ie: gifts of dark immortals, blashphemy against the church... etc) - I was amazed by how many adventure/campaign opportunities this opened up. I haven't read the psion rules for 3E yet so I'm not sure if the same can apply for those who run by the new rules... but it's just an idea. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 13:28:07 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jeff Querner Subject: Re: Blunt Weapons/Raise Dead Argument MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This response may be a little late- it's to the arguement started by Angelo, George and David. The Catholic oath of not shedding blood might not have been the only reason for the blunt weapons rule. In Zoroastrian legends, the ox-headed mace is the traditional symbol of the priesthood and is the weapon of choice for all Zoroastrian heroes. But that's still a long way from all clerics, good and evil, being restricted to them. I can't think of any possible reason why a dark elf priestess wouldn't use an edged weapon. Maybe there should just be some extra restrictions placed for clerics who want to use edged weapons. There's already enough spell restrictions for lawful clerics. I knew once I read the word "black" magic that Angelo would get a long lecture about intentions and mages not necessarily being evil. Some games, like Final Fantasy, use White and Black magic to distinguish between cleric and mage powers, but the current stigma is that they stand for good and evil (I know Voodoo makes this color distinctoin- maybe that's where it comes from.) I ofcourse agree that mages should have more offensive spells and to clerics more defensive spells, but since Gandalf (a 'Valar' immortal?) and Merlin (a druid) are both bad examples for mages, I really don't know where the archtype of the D&D wizard comes from. I've always figured clerics to have more biblical powers (Silence, Cure Blindness, Cure Disease, Sticks to Snakes, Create Food, Insect Plague, Raise Dead). Anyway, the way I see it, clerics and druids get their powers from their deities while mages harnass their magic in a more pseudo-scientific way, through the words they use. I think there's a historical distinction behind this, unlike the totally arbitrary Sorcerer and Psychic (or whatever) classes. Western civilization probably only distinguished between God's miracles and the devil's magic, but in the Near East people believed that words of power, like God's name, could be used to perform magic independant of Yahweh or Baal-Zebub. Even so, there's no reason to say a cleric isn't involved in the spell he's casting and can't be deducated a CON point since casting Restore causes a cleric to lose a level. But perhaps the best thing to do is limit Raise Dead to the first four days after death and just drop Raise Dead Fully from the game completely. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 17:14:42 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: Please nix the politix MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey! Watch what you say about Charlemagne bucko! ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Knott" To: Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 11:02 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Please nix the politix > From: "Castille Baromon de Preto" > > > > True, this line has caused some flames. Besides the stepping on > > peoples toes to make fun of political figures, RW politics is a great > > resource for gaming. Maybe we are not just ready to play on > > current history just yet. ;) > > I think you hit the nail on the head -- if you must mention real world > political figures, it is probably best that they be dead as well as either > discredited or irrelevant if you want to avoid a flame war. Thus, > anything said about a current world leader is likely to start an > argument between his friends and foes, but you are probably > fairly safe in saying whatever you like about Stalin and Hitler > (both dead and discredited) or Caesar and Charlemagne (both > dead and mostly irrelevant to modern politics). One exception: > it is a very bad idea to compare any poster to any political figure > in the dead/discredited category. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 01:58:59 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Francesco Defferrari Subject: how to know if bush is evil : - ) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, after my message before in which i pointed to the difficulty about = knowing if a ruler is good or evil, let's see the other side of the = story... What i'm saying is that in Mystara, and not in the real world, = there are means to know really if a man is good or evil.. those means = are the immortals... Even if someone is protected against clerical scrying regarding = alignment and aims, sure lawful good churches will not support an evil = ruler... and certainly immortals knows if a ruler is evil or not... For example IMC the church of Traladara support Stephan because Halav, = Petra and Zirchev knows that Stephan is good, even if sometimes naive. = Sure Stephan could still be evil and protected from their scrying by the = magic of an immortal stronger than them, like Thanatos, but as i said = before, this is unlikely to happens... The church of Vanya instead supports Kelvin, and Eusebius in Thyatis, = and their goals are to conquer traladara and the world to the church... = For the same reason IMC the church of Tarastia is going to oppose = Eusebius, being the emperor a follower of Vanya, even if he is just a = mild follower of Vanya and he tries to have friendly relations with any = church.. But the topic about Tarastia, Vanya and Thyatis will be matter = for another post, here i want just to say that if you give some = importance to the "immortal factor", in Mystara a ruler cannot hide too = much of his aims, and as in medieval RW is very difficult to rule a = nation if the major churches are against you... Francesco "What can change the nature of a man ?" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 02:30:58 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: how to know if bush is evil : - ) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Good points you make... I was thinking of a similar value for churches in Mystara in one of my previous posts; but the unusual nature of Immortals in Mystara (as compared to Powers and Gods in other settings) makes it a bit murkier: first, Immortals don't follow the Good-Evil axis as much as the Law-Chaos, plus the Spheres. And they have their own squabblings and confrontations... would Immortals tell their clergy: "hey, oppose that guy cuz he's evil" or rather: "hey, oppose that guy cuz he's an enemy of the church"? The only direct case of "evil determination" would be if the leader in question were in liege with Entropics, but that's not always the case (Entropy does not have the monopoly of Evil). The War of the Immortals is a good example of how churches of the Immortals work: they care about their patrons' interests (at times forced in complex alliances), but there was not too much worry about evil or good, not even about Law and Chaos for that matter... Andr�s ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 20:58:17 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: how to know if bush is evil : - ) In-Reply-To: <006f01c0f20d$cb2e9c20$439598c1@uchicago.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Andr�s Piquer Otero wrote: > confrontations... would Immortals tell their clergy: "hey, oppose that guy > cuz he's evil" or rather: "hey, oppose that guy cuz he's an enemy of the > church"? Definitely B. Unlike, say, the Forgotten Realms, Good and Evil are not black and white on Mystara. Chaotic and Lawful are more important, but in even them, there are shades of grey. On Mystara, Lawful presents the following qualities: Discipline, tradition, code of honor, code of law, group before self. Chaos is: individuality, uncertainty, twisted honor if any at all, self before group. There are good and evil aspects in both of these, but the good and evil are defined by the culture that is defining them, not inherent in the character's makeup. Ethan -- converting alignments is _hard_ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:57:01 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Blunt Weapons/Raise Dead Argument MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Jeff Querner" > > I can't think of any possible > reason why a dark elf priestess wouldn't use an edged > weapon. Maybe there should just be some extra > restrictions placed for clerics who want to use edged > weapons. There's already enough spell restrictions for > lawful clerics. In 3E we have a very good reason to introduce such restrictions for some but not all clerics. By default, 3E clerics can wield all "simple" weapons -- which implies that they lack proficiency with any "martial" or "exotic" weapons unless they take the appropriate proficiency feats or gain levels in classes that automatically have proficiency in those weapons. >From the analogy of druidic weapon restrictions, we could introduce the rather obvious "weapon vow" idea. In return for a sacred vow not to use weapons of either of the other two types, a cleric would automatically gain proficiency with all weapons of the selected type even if they are martial or exotic weapons. Of the three types, Mystaran clerics would be more likely to select "bludgeoning" rather than "slashing" or "piercing", as most clerics who wish to use slashing or piercing weapons are likely to gain the required proficiencies via other classes. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 23:30:03 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Okay, okay MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All right, who organized the email writing campaign? I have decided to stop acting "childish," as one correspondent wrote. Think of it as a short vacation (I haven't had so few emails in over a year). George ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 01:38:22 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: An adventure idea: Grave Robbers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the suggestions! Actually I haven't figured out all the kinks in the scenario yet. The main idea was to get the PCs in a moral dilemna where they might have to choose sides. I agree with you somewhat because I have more of an "absolute right" and "absolute wrong" idea about life myself., but I think if the DM's liberal enough he can find it possible to allow the clerics to be "good" because they are promoting life. Or even if their alignment isn't good, give the players second thoughts about what they should do about the situation. The "rebellious" clerics could agree that it isn't right to steal, but it's more right to support life. (A whole different kind of pro-life movement.) I think it would be better to do away with the "secret town" idea and just say that the clerics allow them to go home. In this way, the PCs will have a bigger moral dilemna. BUT, since each DM has his own needs and wants for the campaign, I say just choose the scenario that best fits (see below from Alex's posting). Any other ideas to flesh out the adventure? I appreciate the suggestions. Angelo Bertolli URL: http://members.fortunecity.com/abertoll Alex Benson: 1) the cult is at odds with the established town clergy. their free use of the raise dead is opposed by the clergy because it undermines the costs to have someone raised and offers a sense of immortality. the cult is oppressed by the clerics and the cult has been driven underground. they hope to raise folks who will be gracious to their saviors and adopt their beliefs. those that do are colonists and new members. those that don't are slain as heretics....the cult seeing them as unworthy. plus...they were dead to begin with nothing really lost. 2) the cult is using a gaes or other incentive spell to force the raised individuals to act as colonists. they see it as being for their own good and more reliable than simple gratitude. it also insures their silence. 3) the cult raises them using a spell/ritual that acts essentially like the process that creates Lightening Zombies. you have sentient undead that don't rot and retain enough of their memories to act as citizens. however, they lack a definative tie to their mortal lives. whether undead or revived, memory and free will would be problems. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 01:41:33 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: An adventure idea: Grave Robbers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Another idea: doing away with the good clerics in town, and instead setting the scenario in Glantri where clerics are outlawed anyway would put an interesting twist on the setup. Especially in Klantyre which is ruled by a lich (no?). Angelo Bertolli URL: http://members.fortunecity.com/abertoll ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 01:48:50 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: An adventure idea: The Assassin's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I really like this adventure. I would just make one suggestion, if you like, you can take it if it fits. (I don't know how you've set up the government.) 1) Thyatis is somehow oppressive, greedy, or otherwise corrupt, and the force that hides in the slums, alleys, and possibly under the city is actually trying to overthrow. 2) Thyatis wants bad publicity for this group to make it easier and to give them an excuse to terminate them. The murders can actually be done by a secret division of the Thyatian government. The PCs may find out and switch sides, may find out too late, or may never find out. The last is safer for them otherwise the government might be after them. Angelo Angelo Bertolli URL: http://members.fortunecity.com/abertoll ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Benson" Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 12:09 PM Subject: An adventure idea: The Assassin's > inspired by the Grave Robber adventure I decided to go ahead and post this > for some feedback. this adventure is one of several that I have been working > on over the last few weeks. i'd like some feedback before finishing up and > proceding to the maps and floorplans. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 01:51:57 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: An adventure idea: The Blood Game MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is good. I may use this and throw in a lost NPC who is related to one of the PCs but has become a vampire or dhampir. Angelo Bertolli URL: http://members.fortunecity.com/abertoll ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 22:33:46 +1000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: Mystara site down? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" don't worry gang, it doesn't look like it's going to be long term or anything - I'm glad I didn't get my update out today, that would have been a let down. The update should be soon however as I've grown a bit sick of waiting for either of the artists I've been talking with to actually finish things >X-From_: davew@urda.heanet.ie Mon Jun 11 22:23:24 2001 >Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:23:01 +0100 >From: Dave Wilson >To: shawn stanley , gordon@slashnull.org >Subject: Re: Mystara site down? >References: <3.0.32.20010611221925.00b92274@pop3.norton.antivirus> >X-How-Many: Fifty or sixty > >Hi Shawn, > >I've had to move the site temporarily to another machine while we move >offices, and it looks like all has not gone as planned - sorry about this. >I'm working on it. shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:12:55 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Okay, okay MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Welcome back! -----Original Message----- From: George Hrabovsky [mailto:ghrabovsky@TDS.NET] Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 12:30 AM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: [MYSTARA] Okay, okay All right, who organized the email writing campaign? I have decided to stop acting "childish," as one correspondent wrote. Think of it as a short vacation (I haven't had so few emails in over a year). George ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:53:56 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: An adventure idea: Grave Robbers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: Angelo Bertolli [mailto:abertoll@HOTMAIL.COM] >> Thanks for the suggestions! Actually I haven't figured out all the kinks in the scenario yet. The main idea was to get the PCs in a moral dilemna where they might have to choose sides. << There was an X-File that was similar to this. You can base it on a cult surrounding a healer that heals people in a cheap way. Basically (from the show) the healer ate the victim, and adopted all the victims illness, then in some type of ritual, regurgitated the victim as a healthy person to return to the family. This could be used in a scenario where an unknown plague has occurred and the local clergy refuses to heal the townspeople because they declared the plague punishment for something they did. The populace would have to seek out the poor soul who is the healer, and can't help but to heal the people (geased or its nature). The moral dilemma (also from the show) is the healer does not die from the illnesses, and is hunted down by other townsfolk because of the nature of his healing, and the healer's appearance (he has healed many a dreadful plague in the past). Maybe even one the pc's could contract the plague, and will need his healing. (In the show, Moulder was shot to death, the healer then ate him and adopted Moulder's death, thus Moulder lives, and the healer finally dies to keep from adopting more terrible and painful diseases, cancer, et) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 07:30:23 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Shedding Blood Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My only reply in this thread is to say you have obviously not read the = novels by George RR Martin. In those books a family called the Lannisters = do what they think is best and those who are questioned get beheaded. One = was the King's Hand after the king died. the common folk are to do what = they are told and as Tyrion in the novel said, "They will bloody well like = it!" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 07:49:29 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: [GPD] Return of the Glantrian Personnel Divison Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I love your info page, with this one and the Houses of Darokin I feel I = can flesh out my Mystara Realm even more. Thanks for the good work. Is = anybody done work on the Alfheim Clans or the Shadow Elves, as in more = detail than just the GAZ info? Let me know. regards, JK Wolf :) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:01:52 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: An adventure idea: The Assassin's Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>> abertoll@HOTMAIL.COM 06/11/01 01:48AM >>> I really like this adventure. I would just make one suggestion, if you like, you can take it if it fits. (I don't know how you've set up the government.) 2) Thyatis wants bad publicity for this group to make it easier and to = give them an excuse to terminate them. The murders can actually be done by a secret division of the Thyatian government. The PCs may find out and = switch sides, may find out too late, or may never find out. The last is safer = for them otherwise the government might be after them. considering Thyatis is based on the Roman Empire why would they care about = publicity? The legionnaires will eliminate any who oppose the government. =20 JK Wolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:07:41 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: darokin Campaign Comments: To: MYSTARA-L@.WIZARDS.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Okay, I want to base the Novel Game of Thrones on the houses of Darokin. = What I need to know is: Which House is based in what town? I need to = fracture Darokin up but I don't know where the major houses are located. = Can anyone help me? JK Wolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:11:01 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: what would happen if? Comments: To: MYSTARA-L@.WIZARDS.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IMC I have the drow. Anyway, one of the PCs in my campaign is a Lupin from = Renardy. what I have planned is the drow is going to send some chocolate = as a gift to the Lupin. The rest of the party will think "oh that was nice = of that nice man" but what would the Lupin see this as?=20 Would it be an considered an insult? Would a duel result? I'm not sure = what the custom of Renardy would call for. can anyone help? Thanks! JK WOLF ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:18:10 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: what would happen if? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: Joe Kelly [mailto:joe_kelly@DAVIS.CA] >> IMC I have the drow. Anyway, one of the PCs in my campaign is a Lupin from Renardy. what I have planned is the drow is going to send some chocolate as a gift to the Lupin. The rest of the party will think "oh that was nice of that nice man" but what would the Lupin see this as? Would it be an considered an insult? Would a duel result? I'm not sure what the custom of Renardy would call for. can anyone help? Thanks! << LOL... First, how would the Drow know about chocolate and dogs? If I was the Renardy, I would send some Ambur Lotus Flower Wine back, or just the flowers. Then find the unconscious Drow and coupe de gra . ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:20:28 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: what would happen if? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well I'm assuming that they would know about chocolate and dogs. And the = drow, being like the mafia and are familiar with this party (since they = were once hired to hunt the drow) would not accept anything from the = PCs.=20 >>> christopher.cherrington@OVERSEASSERVICE.COM 06/11/01 08:18AM >>> << LOL... First, how would the Drow know about chocolate and dogs? If I was the Renardy, I would send some Ambur Lotus Flower Wine back, or just the flowers. Then find the unconscious Drow and coupe de gra . ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=20 The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/=20 To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:25:26 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Traps Page Comments: To: MYSTARA-L@.WIZARDS.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable check this out! it's a page for Traps http://adnd.hypermart.net/traps.htm=20 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:29:17 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: what would happen if? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: Joe Kelly [mailto:joe_kelly@DAVIS.CA] >> Well I'm assuming that they would know about chocolate and dogs. And the drow, being like the mafia and are familiar with this party (since they were once hired to hunt the drow) would not accept anything from the PCs. << I would still try to send the flowers then, maybe a nice assortment of Amber Lotus and Black Roses. As the Renardy I would give the chocolate away to the rest of the party that commented on such a nice fellow he is, then see what their reaction is "I'm not going to eat it, you try it!" Just hope there is someone in your group named Mikey with the feat of being a geek (a circus geek will eat anything, glass, mold, nails, black puddings, et) ;) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:47:37 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: darokin Campaign MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:07:41 -0700 Joe Kelly writes: > Okay, I want to base the Novel Game of Thrones on the houses of > Darokin. What I need to know is: Which House is based in what town? > I need to fracture Darokin up but I don't know where the major > houses are located. Can anyone help me? As I recall... Mauntea: Darokin City Linton: Athenos Hallonica: Selenica Corun: Corunglain Pennydown: Darokin City? Umbarth: Akesoli Al-Azrad: Hallonica Franich: Darokin City Toeny: Akorros Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/anowack/ ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:43:22 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: darokin Campaign MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: Aaron E Nowack [mailto:anowack@JUNO.COM] >> As I recall... Mauntea: Darokin City Linton: Athenos Hallonica: Selenica Corun: Corunglain Pennydown: Darokin City? Umbarth: Akesoli Al-Azrad: Hallonica Franich: Darokin City Toeny: Akorros << Al-Azrad: Selenica ;0 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:54:12 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: darokin Campaign MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:47:37 -0500 Aaron E Nowack writes: > On Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:07:41 -0700 Joe Kelly > writes: > > Okay, I want to base the Novel Game of Thrones on the houses of > > Darokin. What I need to know is: Which House is based in what > town? > > I need to fracture Darokin up but I don't know where the major > > houses are located. Can anyone help me? > > As I recall... > > Mauntea: Darokin City > Linton: Athenos > Hallonica: Selenica > Corun: Corunglain > Pennydown: Darokin City? > Umbarth: Akesoli > Al-Azrad: Hallonica Stupid typo... that should be Selenica. > Franich: Darokin City > Toeny: Akorros Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/anowack/ ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:53:16 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: III Subject: Re: Freeport Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jenni: I must have missed "Adventuring in Ierendi" the first time around.= =20 Thanks for the ideas, you=92ve got some good stuff there. Matt: I would be delighted to hear your thoughts on the subject. Andy Morrow III _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:07:20 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: darokin Campaign Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable thanks Chris and Aaron this will definitely help! >>> anowack@JUNO.COM 06/11/01 08:54AM >>> On Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:47:37 -0500 Aaron E Nowack writes: > On Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:07:41 -0700 Joe Kelly > writes: > > Okay, I want to base the Novel Game of Thrones on the houses of > > Darokin. What I need to know is: Which House is based in what > town? > > I need to fracture Darokin up but I don't know where the major > > houses are located. Can anyone help me? > > As I recall... > > Mauntea: Darokin City > Linton: Athenos > Hallonica: Selenica > Corun: Corunglain > Pennydown: Darokin City? > Umbarth: Akesoli > Al-Azrad: Hallonica Stupid typo... that should be Selenica. > Franich: Darokin City > Toeny: Akorros Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/anowack/=20 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=20 The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/=20 To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:12:10 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: what would happen if? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Funny you should mention the Black Roses, the Drow's leader is known as = the Black Rose, otherwise known in drow as: Renor Cryso which the party = will meet. :) (in disguise of course) >>> christopher.cherrington@OVERSEASSERVICE.COM 06/11/01 08:29AM >>> -----Original Message----- From: Joe Kelly [mailto:joe_kelly@DAVIS.CA]=20 >> Well I'm assuming that they would know about chocolate and dogs. And the drow, being like the mafia and are familiar with this party (since they = were once hired to hunt the drow) would not accept anything from the PCs. << I would still try to send the flowers then, maybe a nice assortment of = Amber Lotus and Black Roses. As the Renardy I would give the chocolate away to the rest of the party that commented on such a nice fellow he is, then see what their reaction is "I'm not going to eat it, you try it!" Just hope there is someone in your group named Mikey with the feat of being a geek = (a circus geek will eat anything, glass, mold, nails, black puddings, et) ;) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=20 The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/=20 To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:14:49 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: here's another Comments: To: MYSTARA-L@.WIZARDS.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I can't remember who wanted the riddles but go here: http://adnd.hypermart.net/riddle.htm=20 enjoy! JK Wolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:17:44 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: what would happen if? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: Joe Kelly [mailto:joe_kelly@DAVIS.CA] >> Funny you should mention the Black Roses, the Drow's leader is known as the Black Rose, otherwise known in drow as: Renor Cryso which the party will meet. :) (in disguise of course) << You forgot to wear your amulet of protection vs crystal balls & esp today. ;) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:05:58 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: An adventure idea: Grave Robbers Angelo wrote: >Any other ideas to flesh out the adventure? I appreciate the suggestions. In addition to Alex's suggestions, how about a side plot where one temple in town (to which the dead-raising clerics belong) seems to have a steadily-growing congregation (the raised individiuals, who are encouraged to convert to the new faith out of gratitude - after all, they owe their restored lives to the Immortal in question). The other faiths in own are getting worried, seeing their congregations shrink in dribs and drabs, on top of seeing the "dead" walking around aonce more. They might petition the PCs to investigate accordingly. You could go a number of ways from here: 1. The clerics are doing what they think is good and right, and thus this provokes a moral dilemma to resolve. 2. The clerics are actually evil, and by increasing the number of worshippers, their Immortal will make a minor stroke against a rival (perhaps this is happening in other towns across the nation), through "stealing" worshippers. The raised people would have no idea about what is really going on, of course. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:25:29 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [GPD] Return of the Glantrian Personnel Divison MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe Kelly wrote: > > I love your info page, with this one and the Houses of Darokin I feel I can flesh out my Mystara Realm even more. Thank you very much! :) BTW, there are at least two other sites that were spawned by GPD members. One is Paparazzi Glantri, Kit's website featuring IC info on Glantrian social life (http://www.geocities.com/paparazzi_glantri/), while the other is the Glantrian Interactive Map (http://www.glantri.fr.st), a map by Thibault Sarlat, with extensive, if still incomplete, info on the fiefs, provinces and towns of Glantri by GPD's Giovanni Porpora and, to a much lesser extent, myself. > Thanks for the good work. Is anybody done work on the Alfheim Clans or the Shadow Elves, as in more detail than just the GAZ info? Let me know. I'm not aware of any specific work on those two nations. You could try Fabrizio Paoli's home page for the Shadow Elves, though, as his home campaign was based on the SE. I don't have the address right now, but there's a link in the Vaults of Pandius links section. Unfortunately, nation-based projects are quite rare, probably due to the effort needed to create and maintain them. AFAIK, only a few KW nations can boast websites entirely devoted to them. Myself, I'd like to see more of these project, especially for Ylaruam and Rockhome. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:32:43 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Tome of Mystara #6 Now Available Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear Fellow Mystarans, Tome of Mystara #6 -- the Final Issue -- is now online. We're especially proud of this issue, most particularly because we have an entire series of interwoven adventures, Secret Societies, an artistic "tour" of Swanamutu, the Secrets of the Immortal Hierarchs (hint: you'll never see the world the same again!), ideas for Petitioning for Immortality, Thyatian ship specs, and much, much, much more! We hope you'll read every article and adventure, since we know our contributors went to a great deal of trouble to make sure that this is the greatest Tome ever! Just follow the link below. Enjoy! Jennifer Guerra for Tome of Mystara e-Zine http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:11:30 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Francesco Defferrari Subject: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, about alignments and immortals of mystara i have something to say.. when = i began to play D&D in mystara, in the far away year 1991 : - ) , i used = lawful and chaotic as synonymus of good and evil.. I discovered that = lawful was not a synonymous of good only when i bought the Players = handbook, in Bristol, 1992 : - ) So i understood the difference between Mystara and other settings, but = my campaign remained quite centered around the good vs evil struggle, = even when i bought the Immortal and read about spheres. All that = happened in my opinion because the philosophical notion of lawful and = chaotic is a typical american and anglosaxon thing, or maybe northern = european thing, but in the southern culture of europe is quite a strange = idea... Or better should be saying that we obviously understand the = notions of law and chaos, but i think in our culture those are = considered political notions, created by humankind, and we don't view = them as divine forces or features of the universe. Obviously this is not = a strict rule: my girlfriend for example believe in Law as a religion : = - ) and she is a great fan of Elric.. I'd like to hear opinion of other southern european members of the list = and obviously of anyone interested in this topic too : - ) Francesco "What can change the nature of a man ?" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:24:34 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Mystaran Gypsies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Guerra [mailto:valerya1@YAHOO.COM] >> Dear Fellow Mystarans, Tome of Mystara #6 -- the Final Issue -- is now online. << Great site! Love the story about the Rom (Mystaran Gypsies) I also used a similar profile for the Rom IMC. The major differences was the Rom were a Northern Tribe of Traladaran that were displaced several times (those that settled, did in ghettos of pre-merchant Darokin, Slagovich, and northern Glantri) Another attribute I give Rom is use of Bauble Points or BP. This is a generic system of bartering. BP is calculated at 1/2 percent per level plus CHA bonus. This percentage is taken of total value of treasure found that the Rom sees as 'bartering power' the stuff that other characters would look over in their search of 'real treasure'. The Rom character could only use this treasure when purchasing things within a city or gypsy caravan (one BP=one GP). I also used a Gypsy highway, an 'underground railroad' of sorts to smuggle hot items or wanted people between Slagovich and Darokin or between Boldavia to Darokin to Karameikos. The information was great, and I will be sure to use it IMC. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 19:27:21 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: what would happen if? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >I would still try to send the flowers then, maybe a nice assortment of >Amber >Lotus and Black Roses. As the Renardy I would give the chocolate away to >the rest of the party that commented on such a nice fellow he is, then see >what their reaction is "I'm not going to eat it, you try it!" Just hope >there is someone in your group named Mikey with the feat of being a geek (a >circus geek will eat anything, glass, mold, nails, black puddings, et) ;) > Are you sure you meant freak and not geek ? And what is it about chocolates and dogs ? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:30:26 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: what would happen if? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: Gilles Leblanc [mailto:bleakcabal@HOTMAIL.COM] >> Are you sure you meant freak and not geek ? And what is it about chocolates and dogs ? << I really meant GEEK, that is the term for the circus freak that eats all sorts of bad stuff and hammers nails into their head, et... Chocolate is bad to give to your dog, just not your neighbor's dog ;) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:43:50 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: Francesco Defferrari [mailto:sturm@LIBERO.IT] >> I'd like to hear opinion of other southern european members of the list and obviously of anyone interested in this topic too : - ) << I am not of southern Europe, but I did study anthropology in college (one of my favorite subjects). You're right, the notion of good vs. evil is more prevalent in some cultures and not others, and they are still 'lawful or good'. In Mystara I always emphasized this with the difference between Paladins from different cultures. A Ylari Faris is still Lawful Good, but it is to his culture (his alignment is based in his culture, not how his soul is aligned) The same for a paladin from the Order of the White Drake, to Thyatians both are particular evil or not good, but this is a cultural alignment. And both are Lawful Good paladins to their culture. Nobody can be Lawful Good with out internal struggles (we are all bad, but the rules around us that we follow, or choose not to follow, make us good or bad). So as you might of guessed, alignments IMC are more of what your society dictates how you should act. Elves are another example, their alignment is based on their longevity, if they were a Lawful Good society, it would be as rigid and full of codes of law (and boring) just like the Dwarves. That is one of the reason Dwarves don't particularly like Elves, their too aloof and considered lazy. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:52:20 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Well, again into RW stuff, I hope nobody's sensibilities get offended; mine don't yet, anyway. Besides your anthropological points, I see that most of the confusion for the D&D alignment came from a simplification of the very complex AD&D 9 alignment graph, which would not be a success likely for the average basic game player. Also, with all the awful ranting about D&D and Devil Worship which was springing up in the early 80s, the idea of having characters aligning with "Evil" in the most popular version of the game sounded like a bit of a marketing problem (check too, there are no devils and demons in the non-advanced D&D game). Later on, as the AD&D game became more popular and it started to influence the D&D game, we start finding more and more Chaotic creatures which are said to be good in the description, plus creatures which are lawful and evil-minded (that's notorious in the planar creatures of the Companion rules). As for your anthropological notion, I don't know what to say: funnily enogh, the concept of Law as an objective force (in legal and political terms, not to talk about theology) springs from the Roman Republic and passes into our Western culture through early Christian Church Fathers and legal theoretians; that's pretty much South European. Whereas the subjective concept of law (as in the Human Rights), something closer to Good as a D&D world sees it (anybody has right to life, house, oportunities, no matter what law he lives under), came from interesting exchange between French (that's borderline with Mediterraneans) and Anglo-Saxon scholars. Nevertheless, that's history and origins, things don't have to be like this right now; I agree that in Anglo-Saxon countries I notice this concept of Law as an entity which is kinda lacking in mine; and even just some terminology changes interestingly (in America you have community service, here we have humanitarian work), but that's far more complex: in America you have popular jury in lawsuits, whereas in Spain we normally just have a cadre of judges (without jury) to compunctiously apply lawcodes (quite a bit thicker than lawcodes in countries like the US, far bigger and diverse than ours). So I don't know, at times i feel like agreeing with you, but a side of me cannot help thinking that that's a bit of a sheer generalization. Andr�s ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:50:39 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yeah but you know... The concept of law and chaos apart from good and evil has always bothered me. For instance, how the heck am I supposed to really believe that there can exist a country considered "chaotic"? Law makes it lawful...right? Hule, the classic D&D example of a chaotic country, is very structured and very authoritarian. To my mind, it is anything but chaotic. I can accept the idea that a lawful character tends toward the good of the group while the chaotic character tends toward the good of the *individual. But to suggest that a country could be built on the lack of law just flies in the face of logic. An anarchical state would not exist between any two powers. Even if all the governments of the world decided to disband and every child government, state, county, city, and community council disbanded with them, you would still have people banding together to try and bring about order out of the chaos. Families of 3 children would grow their own food and find themselves handing it over to the nearest neighbor who has 5 children. People would band together to rob each other and to protect each other from the robbers. Now we could get into the Natural Law and what truly should be Law...and therefore good...but that's Saint Thomas Aquinas and I haven't gotten to him yet...he's terribly difficult to read compared to Saint Augustine. *Note: This is a correction to someone who earlier referred to chaotic as being the good of one's self. Yeah, it could be that...but the larger definition is individual. Self-centered tends toward evil while considering the good of the individual (Which in essence, could be argued to be the true good of the group) means holding out for the widest possible freedoms with as little government (or evil wizard, dragon, etc) influence as possible. This though brings us to another definition of law, further confusing us on a semantic level. Does the law serve the government or does it serve the people? Depends on the country would be the obvious answer. Does Hule's law serve the government or the people? I would say it serves the Master and therefore the government. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francesco Defferrari" To: Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 3:11 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] law, chaos, good, evil Hello, about alignments and immortals of mystara i have something to say.. when i began to play D&D in mystara, in the far away year 1991 : - ) , i used lawful and chaotic as synonymus of good and evil.. I discovered that lawful was not a synonymous of good only when i bought the Players handbook, in Bristol, 1992 : - ) So i understood the difference between Mystara and other settings, but my campaign remained quite centered around the good vs evil struggle, even when i bought the Immortal and read about spheres. All that happened in my opinion because the philosophical notion of lawful and chaotic is a typical american and anglosaxon thing, or maybe northern european thing, but in the southern culture of europe is quite a strange idea... Or better should be saying that we obviously understand the notions of law and chaos, but i think in our culture those are considered political notions, created by humankind, and we don't view them as divine forces or features of the universe. Obviously this is not a strict rule: my girlfriend for example believe in Law as a religion : - ) and she is a great fan of Elric.. I'd like to hear opinion of other southern european members of the list and obviously of anyone interested in this topic too : - ) Francesco "What can change the nature of a man ?" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:12:36 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Jeff Daly" > > The concept of law and chaos apart from good and evil has always bothered > me. For instance, how the heck am I supposed to really believe that there > can exist a country considered "chaotic"? Law makes it lawful...right? Hule, > the classic D&D example of a chaotic country, is very structured and very > authoritarian. To my mind, it is anything but chaotic. Although Hule has laws, it is not a Lawful country because its laws are arbitrary whims of its rulers with no systematic philosophical basis -- and the fact that Hulean subjects can never be sure that they are following the law is evidence of its chaotic nature. On the other hand, in Lawful nations there is a logical pattern to the laws that is based on precedent and tradition, thus making it more difficult to introduce arbitrary and disruptive laws that might undermine the whole system. In a Lawful nation, any proposed new law that would contradict existing precedent and tradition might be dismissed as "unconstitutional" or "completely against our tradition". While there would of course be elements of both Law and Chaos in every legal system, most Mystaran nations would tend towards one extreme or the other, and that tendency would determine the basic national alignment of Law vs. Chaos. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 22:23:08 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nah, I don't buy it. That suggests there is a higher law than that which is dispensed by mortal rulers...hmm... ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Knott" To: Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] law, chaos, good, evil > From: "Jeff Daly" > > > > The concept of law and chaos apart from good and evil has always bothered > > me. For instance, how the heck am I supposed to really believe that there > > can exist a country considered "chaotic"? Law makes it lawful...right? > Hule, > > the classic D&D example of a chaotic country, is very structured and very > > authoritarian. To my mind, it is anything but chaotic. > > Although Hule has laws, it is not a Lawful country because its laws are > arbitrary whims of its rulers with no systematic philosophical basis -- > and the fact that Hulean subjects can never be sure that they are > following the law is evidence of its chaotic nature. On the other hand, > in Lawful nations there is a logical pattern to the laws that is based on > precedent and tradition, thus making it more difficult to introduce > arbitrary and disruptive laws that might undermine the whole system. > In a Lawful nation, any proposed new law that would contradict existing > precedent and tradition might be dismissed as "unconstitutional" or > "completely against our tradition". > > While there would of course be elements of both Law and Chaos in > every legal system, most Mystaran nations would tend towards one > extreme or the other, and that tendency would determine the basic > national alignment of Law vs. Chaos. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 22:31:14 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Jeff Daly" > Nah, I don't buy it. That suggests there is a higher law than that which is > dispensed by mortal rulers...hmm... That is indeed the crux of my argument and the source of our disagreement -- if Law has no meaning beyond what mortal rulers say it is, then we have no basis for using it for alignment purposes. However, you may note that the ultimate source and authority for a system of law is not the key point -- the real key is whether such a system exists and to what degree it is self-consistent. To take one example of a Chaotic society -- in the Alphatian Empire, the only consistent rule that is never violated is "Spellcasters rule, mundaners drool." Beyond that generalization, every law is the whim of a spellcaster ruler. On that basis, Alphatia is a very Chaotic society. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:55:37 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: David Knott [mailto:uashell@EARTHLINK.NET] >> That is indeed the crux of my argument and the source of our disagreement -- if Law has no meaning beyond what mortal rulers say it is, then we have no basis for using it for alignment purposes. However, you may note that the ultimate source and authority for a system of law is not the key point -- the real key is whether such a system exists and to what degree it is self-consistent. To take one example of a Chaotic society -- in the Alphatian Empire, the only consistent rule that is never violated is "Spellcasters rule, mundaners drool." Beyond that generalization, every law is the whim of a spellcaster ruler. On that basis, Alphatia is a very Chaotic society. << Would this mean that Darokin is Chaotic, "he who has the Gold, makes the rules"? Even given evidence of their judicial system, a system based on if you buy the services of a lawyer, you must be guilty! Other countries would see this as a corrupt/chaotic society. But Darokin also has the lowest poverty level per capita, the people are happy, and anyone can attain riches. Your idea of alignment is based on your own perceptions of alignment. Nobody wants to say I am chaotic, but you may have this tendency not to follow the rules (I don't wear a trench coat, but I used to) In the RW the US would be a very chaotic country. We have many rules and regulations and laws, people in the US are not evil. But look at how many rules get bent, loopholes, overturned, newer laws that contradict the laws from 10 years ago, a country based on freedom from taxing (a New York resident on average will spend 60-80% of his income in taxes) Let me stop ranting (I love the US, I am not an anarchist) You could say a chaotic nation is a nation that is constantly changing, one that does not stagnate because it does not follow all the traditions and precedents from before. In this light a person from a chaotic nation would say a lawful nation (like Thyatis) was 'chaotic' or 'evil', they are behind the times and stagnant. The people of nations don't believe their own countries are 'evil'; if they did, you would never have the effects of war when there is a truly evil power running it (Hitler as an example). The country of Hule is very chaotic, the rules and laws are constantly changing, so fast it's own populace can't keep up with it. But they believe they are right, when a Thyatian comes to them and says "What do you mean I can't buy weapons on Lunadain when there is a cow on the road? This is a stupid law." They will argue the that the law is not stupid, and perceive the Thyatian as 'bad' or ignorant to the true way and that Thyatis must be very chaotic not to follow such a good law. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:11:48 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: An adventure idea: Grave Robbers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit reading the thread i was also thinking about a couple things. placing the adventure in Glantri would work very well. given the law against clerical magic, the need for secrecy would work well. and given the limitations of mage magic in restoring the departed, the raised individuals may be more gracious. technically they may feel like they have to go underground because they were raised by clerical magic. this would make them accessories in a way to the clerics. i was also thinking about this little twist. what if the two clerical orders were very similar in their general edicts? neither could be considered evil or opposed to the other. the conflict would be based more on which clerical order is the more dominant in the town/city. the lesser clerical order could be using the cheap or free raise dead spells to secure the hearts and minds of the populace. the larger established clergy is losing ground to this and may very well lose its dominant hold over the religious minded of the town. morale dilemmas would really be put aside or merely used as an excuse. in the end, the basis of the plot would be two immortals having a bit of a recruiting contest for their followers. it might be fun to see the immortals clash on this level. no meteors hitting the town or anything like that. hmm...what if the town was the territory Terra. the newcomer was clerics of Nyx. Nyx's philosophy would be more along the lines of ancient egypt where death is a natural part of life....death is only the beginning :-). it could also be tied into some loose ends from Wrath. IMO there should be some scores left unsettled from that. this adventure could be part of one immortal's revenge upon another (stroke). i am not a big fan of RS/SC but iirc there was something about Vanya trying to usurp Ixion's rule of one of the kingdoms there. or it could be based on more serious tones. remember that RW medieval times were hard on the peasantry. living conditions sucked and there was the omnipotent rule of the church and the landed nobility. for a short lifetime of harsh living, the peasants had only to look forward to the promise of the religious afterlife. since all the above does not exactly apply to Mystarans, there would have to be some tweaking. however, what if the cult promote hedonism to an oppressed people. the peasants are raised and offered a hedonistic life....if they follow the cult's patron immortal. like most humans they should bite on this temptation. anyway it is just a thought. i did something similar with one of the Davania Milenian city/states. the immortal Talitha gained control of some exiles. she had them set up a society that had them live a decadent life. at a certain age, they were forced out. come to think of it I have been ignoring the DV city/states...sorry Geoff i'll get back on those for the DV DMG. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:12:58 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: An adventure idea: The Assassin's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Angelo: <> thanks. all suggestions are welcome. i am all ears. <<1)=A0 Thyatis is somehow oppressive, greedy, or otherwise corrupt, and the force that hides in the slums, alleys, and possibly under the city is actually trying to overthrow.>> for the adventure i decided to stay away from any deviattions from the given= =20 canon text. even though the corruption and all are given, i did not hark on=20 them too much. why? personally the negative aspects is what i appreciate=20 about thyatis...it's more realistic. the Thyatian crowd is rather sensitive=20 about Thyatis's character. i really don't want to get into a debate on "what= =20 Thyatis is or isn't" when the adventure plot is what is being discussed. so=20 what i will do in the finished draft is to keep the tone moderate and allow=20 the individual DMs to shift the national character as they see fit. i would=20 have to do the same thing for a Glantrian, Alphatian, or Karameikan based=20 adventure as those kingdoms also have sizable followings. anyway...i have=20 already begun assembling official canon references to back up my details. :-= ) <<2)=A0 Thyatis wants bad publicity for this group to make it easier and to=20= give them an excuse to terminate them.=A0 The murders can actually be done by a secret division of the Thyatian government.=A0 The PCs may find out and swit= ch sides, may find out too late, or may never find out.=A0 The last is safer fo= r them otherwise the government might be after them.>> i focused on making it an internal matter for the Shadow Hand. imo the Hand=20 has not really been used to its full potential. the PCs are essentially draw= n=20 in to help clean up their mess. plus, my adventures tend to be a bit weird=20 and unpredictable.=20 the government's role is one of disinterest. the slums of Axetown are the=20 Shadow Hand's domain...DotE even goes as far to mention this. to avoid=20 accusations of portraying the Thy government as uncaring, i simply turned to= =20 the given power of the Hand and its tactics to keep government involvement=20 out of Hand interests (bribes, blackmail, etc).=20 i tend to avoid secret government agencies. i am not a big fan of=20 conspiracies. however, i do like secret orders and brotherhoods. i don't lik= e=20 to have the PCs pitted directly against the government. anyway....the role o= f=20 governemnt in the adventure is more detail oriented. politicians are involve= d=20 based upon their own interests and without official government sanctioning.=20 still...glad for the input. as bad as i am about revisions, you may see some= =20 of this in the finished adventure. secret government agency may be a rumor a= t=20 least. rumor lists are also staples i frequently use. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 07:28:45 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am a good fan of Elric too, in fact I have made him the leader of the = Schattenheim Elves who arrive in Alfheim to help invade it.=20 >>> sturm@LIBERO.IT 06/11/01 12:11PM >>> Hello, about alignments and immortals of mystara i have something to say.. when i = began to play D&D in mystara, in the far away year 1991 : - ) , i used = lawful and chaotic as synonymus of good and evil.. I discovered that = lawful was not a synonymous of good only when i bought the Players = handbook, in Bristol, 1992 : - ) So i understood the difference between Mystara and other settings, but my = campaign remained quite centered around the good vs evil struggle, even = when i bought the Immortal and read about spheres. All that happened in my = opinion because the philosophical notion of lawful and chaotic is a = typical american and anglosaxon thing, or maybe northern european thing, = but in the southern culture of europe is quite a strange idea... Or better = should be saying that we obviously understand the notions of law and = chaos, but i think in our culture those are considered political notions, = created by humankind, and we don't view them as divine forces or features = of the universe. Obviously this is not a strict rule: my girlfriend for = example believe in Law as a religion : - ) and she is a great fan of = Elric.. I'd like to hear opinion of other southern european members of the list = and obviously of anyone interested in this topic too : - ) Francesco "What can change the nature of a man ?" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=20 The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/=20 To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:37:53 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: Traps Page MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You know, with all the free stuff available on the internet these days, I don't think I'll ever have to buy another gaming product. Angelo Bertolli URL: http://members.fortunecity.com/abertoll ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Kelly" Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 8:25 AM Subject: Traps Page check this out! it's a page for Traps http://adnd.hypermart.net/traps.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:50:41 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you ask me, lawful/chaos WAS originally supposed to be a lightweight kind of good and evil which they just changed later. I mean I've never played Mystara's lawful as "lawful neutral" but rather as "some degree of good" and chaotic as "some degree of evil" and neutral as "some degree of good or evil, but not alot." I always think about what they say in the book: Lawful: if the party's in danger, they'll make sure and they stay to defend the others Neutral: protects friends, and returns favors accordingly Chaotic: if the party's in danger, may want to stick around for the treasure, may want to run away I think you could look at things both ways, and I think later they definitely decided that Entropy = evil, but then again there's no alignment associated with entropy. Even mindless undead like zombies are chaotic! Angelo Bertolli URL: http://members.fortunecity.com/abertoll ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francesco Defferrari" Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 12:11 PM Subject: law, chaos, good, evil Hello, about alignments and immortals of mystara i have something to say.. when i began to play D&D in mystara, in the far away year 1991 : - ) , i used lawful and chaotic as synonymus of good and evil.. I discovered that lawful was not a synonymous of good only when i bought the Players handbook, in Bristol, 1992 : - ) So i understood the difference between Mystara and other settings, but my campaign remained quite centered around the good vs evil struggle, even when i bought the Immortal and read about spheres. All that happened in my opinion because the philosophical notion of lawful and chaotic is a typical american and anglosaxon thing, or maybe northern european thing, but in the southern culture of europe is quite a strange idea... Or better should be saying that we obviously understand the notions of law and chaos, but i think in our culture those are considered political notions, created by humankind, and we don't view them as divine forces or features of the universe. Obviously this is not a strict rule: my girlfriend for example believe in Law as a religion : - ) and she is a great fan of Elric.. I'd like to hear opinion of other southern european members of the list and obviously of anyone interested in this topic too : - ) Francesco "What can change the nature of a man ?" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:53:00 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit But what if you're the one making your own rules? Does this make all monarchs lawful by default, or chaotic by default? Angelo Bertolli URL: http://members.fortunecity.com/abertoll ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Cherrington" Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 12:43 PM Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil > -----Original Message----- > From: Francesco Defferrari [mailto:sturm@LIBERO.IT] > >> > I'd like to hear opinion of other southern european members of the list and > obviously of anyone interested in this topic too : - ) > << > > I am not of southern Europe, but I did study anthropology in college (one of > my favorite subjects). You're right, the notion of good vs. evil is more > prevalent in some cultures and not others, and they are still 'lawful or > good'. In Mystara I always emphasized this with the difference between > Paladins from different cultures. A Ylari Faris is still Lawful Good, but > it is to his culture (his alignment is based in his culture, not how his > soul is aligned) The same for a paladin from the Order of the White Drake, > to Thyatians both are particular evil or not good, but this is a cultural > alignment. And both are Lawful Good paladins to their culture. Nobody can > be Lawful Good with out internal struggles (we are all bad, but the rules > around us that we follow, or choose not to follow, make us good or bad). So > as you might of guessed, alignments IMC are more of what your society > dictates how you should act. Elves are another example, their alignment is > based on their longevity, if they were a Lawful Good society, it would be as > rigid and full of codes of law (and boring) just like the Dwarves. That is > one of the reason Dwarves don't particularly like Elves, their too aloof and > considered lazy. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 07:53:16 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: another webpage Comments: To: MYSTARA-L@.WIZARDS.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here is a great webpage for advntures! It has 450 adventures but not all are D&D so if you have different = campaigns as well, this site should be useful. I hope you don't find all these sites overwhelming but I just like to = share anything that helps RPG playing that much more fun.=20 enjoy! JK Wolf RPG Archive: http://www.rpgarchive.com/index.php?page=3Dadv&title=3DNew&sort=3DDate ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:56:04 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I can accept the idea that a lawful character tends toward the good of the > group while the chaotic character tends toward the good of the *individual. > But to suggest that a country could be built on the lack of law just flies > in the face of logic. This is EXACTLY what I think the alignments mean in Mystara. Lawful: for the group more than the self Neutral: for the group and the self equally Chaotic: for the self more than the group. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:20:55 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You're right. This is why I never liked the good/evil alignment axis anyway, it isn't really useful. If you say "The paladin is concerned about the group welfare before his own," you are stating a fact. If you say "The paladin is good," you are making a judgement based on that fact. And for me personally this would be the logical judgement. But it might not be for the next person. It's very possible for someone who I think is doing something evil, to think that he is doing something good. So in order to have a good/evil axis at all, it either has to be relative to a particular culture or religion (which would make the game really confusing--alignments would change as they travel) or there has to be some super-authority which makes the judgement. Now we can't look to the immortals because they don't agree on what's good/evil either. So it has to be some kind of power or judgment even above them: the DM. And essentially that's what the DM has to do in alot of situations. There's commonly arguments between players and DMs about whether or not their paladin is doing something right or not. Or at the very least, the player attempts something he thought was okay, and then learns that there were averse consequences to his actions. But in essence I think the lawful/chaotic axis was meant to state a fact: you are either for the group, for yourself, or somewhere in between. > That is indeed the crux of my argument and the source of our disagreement > -- if Law has no meaning beyond what mortal rulers say it is, then we have > no basis for using it for alignment purposes. However, you may note that > the ultimate source and authority for a system of law is not the key > point -- > the real key is whether such a system exists and to what degree it is > self-consistent. To take one example of a Chaotic society -- in the > Alphatian Empire, the only consistent rule that is never violated is > "Spellcasters rule, mundaners drool." Beyond that generalization, > every law is the whim of a spellcaster ruler. On that basis, Alphatia > is a very Chaotic society. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:33:51 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: Angelo Bertolli [mailto:abertoll@HOTMAIL.COM] >> But what if you're the one making your own rules? Does this make all monarchs lawful by default, or chaotic by default? << If you follow your own rules, you tend to be lawful. Even Hitler followed his own rules (he could have won the war by attacking Turkey and gaining all her oil, but he did not attack because his rules needed a reason to attack, and he had no reason). What is perceived as evil is how the others look upon your actions, and this is based upon what actions are considered evil. (I don't want to start any flames or debates on RW actions or history, I am just using the RW as an example; I am sorry if I step on anything.) For an Mystaran example, in Trollhatan it is against the law to kill humanoids (this is considered an evil act, murder), anywhere else they are fair game and it is not necessarily considered evil to do so; but to kill defenseless humanoid children would cause a moral dilemma, and you could be lawful and justify this will keep the next generation of monsters from attacking civilized people. But if a citizen from Trollhatan was with you, he would think you are pure evil. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:51:10 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" IMC Thyatians are considered evil or at least my players perceive them that way. I never told them in the description of Thyatis that it was an evil country, they just relate Thyatis' imperialistic colonizing actions as evil. I don't even know if they know there is slavery in Thyatis either. Many Thyatians would disagree about their actions as being evil, they are only trying to better the world by civilizing it. The players also don't think of Alphatia as being evil, they are just trying to put Thyatis in line. Glantri is also considered evil, but countries like Darokin and Karameikos (and they know Karameikos was once a colony of Thyatis and the majority of leaders are Thyatian) are considered good. I don't play any of these countries as being evil, or good; they are just countries with differing opinions on the rest of the world, that is what makes them unique. The players never even thought that the Shadow Elves were even evil, even when they attacked several of the players homelands; but if Thyatis was to attack the Ylari, that would be evil in their eyes. Evil was always judged by actions that they considered evil, not with actual alignments on a character sheet. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:51:58 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil In-Reply-To: <001101c0f2c8$f0b5c840$6232140a@jdaly> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Jeff Daly wrote: > can exist a country considered "chaotic"? Law makes it lawful...right? Hule, > the classic D&D example of a chaotic country, is very structured and very > authoritarian. To my mind, it is anything but chaotic. Not true. Many African nations are a perfect example of a chaotic country - leaders vie for position not through law, but through deciet and underhandedness. Having laws does not name a country lawful. Adherence to those laws does. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 02:09:17 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Ancient One Organization: NOLAN P and I Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Angelo Bertolli wrote: > You're right. This is why I never liked the good/evil alignment axis > anyway, it isn't really useful. If you say "The paladin is concerned about > the group welfare before his own," you are stating a fact. If you say "The > paladin is good," you are making a judgement based on that fact. And for me > personally this would be the logical judgement. But it might not be for the > next person. It's very possible for someone who I think is doing something > evil, to think that he is doing something good. In my live campaign I use alignment, together with traits and values. ALIGNMENT is as described in D&D - if you use it at all I find it's best to use it as described or else some players blow their tiny minds trying to deal with the changes. TRAITS are descriptive tags to sum up how the character is day-to-day. The traits list is finite and the traits may or may not have a good/evil law/chaos tendency inherent in them - for example a trait like "thoughtful" is always a GOOD trait, so a CE guy with THOUGHTFUL as a trait is Chaotic Evil tempered by a consideration for others. This is already making the guy sound like maybe the environment he has grown up in has made him a violent and sociopathic person whereas there is at least a seed of goodness still in him. This all greatly adds to people's (quick) roleplaying edge. VALUES are what the character cares most about. Even a total sociopath ie CE could really value something that others might also value highly - such as family, nation, charity or something else. The CE alignment is the least useful most destructive alignment for gaming and the addition of things that a CE person values allows even this alignment to be played with more success - instead of the same old predictable "burn villages, argue all the time, steal things" CE the CE person can be seen to be either a tragic figure unable to properly set bondaries in their life or else as someone with an outlaw mentality who sometimes does good - but only on a whim. -Jonathan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:09:28 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: hafnir Subject: FW: [MYSTARA] law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Would this mean that Darokin is Chaotic, "he who has the Gold, makes the Not speaking about this particular comment, but in general about the arguments that say "Country X is lawful/chaotic", I think some of the confusion comes from the fact that, as others have indicated, there are numerous troubles with assigning an alignment to a country, above and beyond the troubles of assigning alignment to individuals. I realize there is a tendency to try to personify things, especially things like national character, but I think this really is a case where personification breaks down. I believe alignment is a characteristic of individuals, not groups. I don't even think it's really proper to assign an alignment for two individuals - it's much better to say Rob is Chaotic and Bill is Chaotic, than to say Rob and Bill are Chaotic. Because Rob may be Chaotic in ways X, and Bill is Chaotic in ways Y. You can say the alignment of each goblin is Chaotic, but I don't think it's proper to say all the goblins have exactly the same alignment, unless perhaps if they are clones. I know this may seem incredibly subtle, but if it's sticky for even small groups I think it's impossible to do for a nation. It's about as meaningful as asking "Does the nation have over 7 hit points?" - I mean, you can imagine some kind of average or even just sum over the set of hit points, but clearly more than anything the question's just improperly posed, and only at best vaguely meaningful. Since we're on the topic of alignment, in my campaign we use the standard "Lawful", "Neutral", "Chaotic", but they are fairly meaningless. It's yet another reason I like OD&D over AD&D, since we don't make things even worse by using "Lawful Good", "Lawful Neutral", "Lawful Evil", etc. More than anything else, I simply use alignment to keep "Lawful" people in check - so they don't go around cutting all the prisoners' heads off - and I use it as an argument to anything that specifically affects alignment (helm of alignment changing, truesight, etc). In general, I think it's so poorly defined that we generally avoid it as much as possible, though. It's far, far, far better to have a paragraph or even just a sentence stating what the PC/NPC/monster's motivations are. But sorry, you can't really abbreviate that to one letter (L, N, or C) or two letters (LG, LN, LC, etc), and I guess the original creators of D&D thought it'd be cute to be able to, to our overall detriment. hafnir. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:12:31 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: The Ancient One [mailto:greenlantern@HOTKEY.NET.AU] >> In my live campaign I use alignment, together with traits and values. << This is why I never really played such an important role in alignment. It could get very in-depth such as The Ancient One's system (BTW I am not knocking it, it sounds like very good system and is better than what the rules state.) I have always used alignment as an under-the-table idea, with unwritten rules that constantly change based upon the party and actions. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:17:13 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: FW: [MYSTARA] law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: hafnir [mailto:hafnir@EARTHLINK.NET] >> Since we're on the topic of alignment, in my campaign we use the standard "Lawful", "Neutral", "Chaotic", but they are fairly meaningless. << >snip< This is what I have been trying to say. Thank you Hafnir for picking out the better of my opinions and putting it out concisely. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 02:26:37 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Ancient One Organization: NOLAN P and I Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christopher Cherrington wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: The Ancient One [mailto:greenlantern@HOTKEY.NET.AU] > >> > In my live campaign I use alignment, together with traits and values. > << > > This is why I never really played such an important role in alignment. It > could get very in-depth such as The Ancient One's system (BTW I am not > knocking it, it sounds like very good system and is better than what the > rules state.) I have always used alignment as an under-the-table idea, with > unwritten rules that constantly change based upon the party and actions. My system evolved from people randomising backgrounds that included features such as "compulsive gambler", "thoughtless", "liar" etc. so when they also rolled eg "thoughtful", "caring" "selfless" they wanted to roleplay them out so the bad would be cancelled out by the good - so you could start off being an alignment you DON'T like but try and play within the rules to shift alignment to what you DO want. Usually not eg CE to LG but say CE to CN with violent tendencies. Another way to handle alignments is to adopt the Palladium system where there is a rating like Diabolic (similar to CE), Scrupulous (similar to CG) and so on... the advantage of their system is that it comes with longer examples of alignment behaviour and because it is not so mathematised along the X/Y axes of good/evil law/chaos players don't seem to be so structured or stilted at times in their thought processes about behaviour. It shifts them from saying eg "he's CE, he wouldn't care" to "He hates Lizardmen. He wouldn't care." Now, the latter might still mean he's CE if we're talking about roasting marshmallows on the housefire killing the Lizardmen. That's stone cold in anyone's game system. :) or should that be just : ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:42:23 GMT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Matthijs van der Mede Subject: D&D shops in Firenze and Roma Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone, I am a dutchman in Italy right now and I was wondering if there were any Italian fellow mystarans here who could provide me with adresses of D&D shops in Firenze and Roma that I should check out? I will be here for the next two weeks so if anybody could answer me before that would really be appreciated. Matthijs ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:06:37 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: map scale? Comments: To: MYSTARA-L@.WIZARDS.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable According to the KW maps the hexes are 8 miles. But shouldn't that be = doubled? The countries are otherwise very small and the terrain changes = are abrupt! If it was 16 per hex it would seem more logical. Any opinions? JK Wolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:24:04 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: map scale? Joe Kelly wrote: >> According to the KW maps the hexes are 8 miles. But shouldn't that be doubled? The countries are otherwise very small and the terrain changes are abrupt! If it was 16 per hex it would seem more logical. Any opinions?<< Maps of the Mystaran Known World are not logical no matter what you do to them (unless you completely redraw them). If you start messing with the map scales, you will be disregarding all info on world size, population densities, etc., which you are, of course, welcome to do, but it would be a shame to render that info useless, I think. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:26:20 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: map scale? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: Joe Kelly [mailto:joe_kelly@DAVIS.CA] >> According to the KW maps the hexes are 8 miles. But shouldn't that be doubled? The countries are otherwise very small and the terrain changes are abrupt! If it was 16 per hex it would seem more logical. Any opinions? << You are correct, but most of the KW countries are based on sizes of RW European Nations (at the time of the Middle Ages). Also if a character starts owning land, 3 hexes = 1 24 mile hex for dominion income, this is easier to deal with than splitting 1 and 3/4's of a hex. As for the abrupt terrain, I have always skimmed over the absolute details and fluffed the terrain. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:36:52 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dave Keyser Organization: Palmchip Subject: Re: map scale? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jacob Skytte wrote: > Joe Kelly wrote: > > >> According to the KW maps the hexes are 8 miles. But shouldn't that be doubled? The countries are otherwise very small and the terrain changes are abrupt! If it was 16 per hex it would seem more logical. Any opinions?<< > As long as you pick a scale from the beginning and stick with it, you won't have any problems. I agree that many nations are pretty small, doubling their size wouldn't hurt. If you use the whole world instead of just the KW, you will have to decide if you want to double the size of the planet, or increase the scale of the KW on the continent while keeping everything else the same. It's too late for me though. Dave ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 20:37:18 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Agathokles Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Francesco Defferrari wrote: > > Or better should be saying that we obviously understand the notions of law and chaos, but i think in our culture those are considered political notions, created by humankind, and we don't view them as divine forces or features of the universe. > I'd like to hear opinion of other southern european members of the list and obviously of anyone interested in this topic too : - ) Uhm, I think there is more than one level of abstraction at which you can consider law/chaos. Sure, you can think them as a "philosophical" level, and to a certain extent I can see them as the basic principles of certain ancient philosophers (love and war, attraction and repulsion). Or you can consider them at a more concrete level, where the law/chaos choice is just whether you see laws in general as useful tool or an hindrance. Just to stick with our southern european case, I think Northern Italy has a general Chaotic bent, and Southern Italy shows a Lawful bent (more in the past than now, due to the influence of northern-based media in the last decades). [Angelo Bertolli] > This is EXACTLY what I think the alignments mean in Mystara. > > Lawful: for the group more than the self > Neutral: for the group and the self equally > Chaotic: for the self more than the group. I would consider these as definitions of the Good/Evil axis, and not of the Law/Chaos one. But I would agree that this is the definition of L/C in OD&D (not "in Mystara": the world does not modify the definition of good and evil or law and chaos, IMHO). This way, IMO, you would be using the good/evil axis only. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 21:26:24 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil [IC] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > IMC Thyatians are considered evil or at least my players perceive them that > way. I never told them in the description of Thyatis that it was an evil > country, they just relate Thyatis' imperialistic colonizing actions as evil. > I don't even know if they know there is slavery in Thyatis either. Many > Thyatians would disagree about their actions as being evil, they are only > trying to better the world by civilizing it. Isn't that what we are doing? 8-) Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:24:12 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: Agathokles [mailto:agathokles@LIBERO.IT] >> Or you can consider them at a more concrete level, where the law/chaos choice is just whether you see laws in general as useful tool or an hindrance. << This would be considered LE, using laws as a tool that would be useful to yourself. LG would use the laws as a tool to be useful for society as a whole. Neutrals would see the laws as a hindrance. CE would not comprehend the laws. This would approximate the same as [Angelo Bertolli] > This is EXACTLY what I think the alignments mean in Mystara. > > Lawful: for the group more than the self > Neutral: for the group and the self equally > Chaotic: for the self more than the group. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 21:29:55 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: Re: D&D shops in Firenze and Roma MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Matthijs van der Mede wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I am a dutchman in Italy right now and I was wondering if there were any > Italian fellow mystarans here who could provide me with adresses of D&D > shops in Firenze and Roma that I should check out? I will be here for the > next two weeks so if anybody could answer me before that would really be > appreciated. I am really sorry not to know about good shops in Firenze or Rome. However, uhm, I might be myself in Rome on sunday (not sure about it, however). Will you be there around then? It could be fun to meet a fellow Mystaran. About D&D shops, I don't know of any shop that sells good stuff there. The only place where you may find old Mystaran stuff (all in Italian) is...oh, I don't recall the name. Well, contact me, anyway, I will find out soon. Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:27:42 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil [IC] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: Caroletti [mailto:scarole@TIN.IT] >> Isn't that what we are doing? 8-) Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis << Out of the mouth of babes... ;) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:51:28 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit But again, you are positing a Law that is greater than mortal governments and the laws they make. ----- Original Message ----- From: "SteelAngel" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] law, chaos, good, evil > On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Jeff Daly wrote: > > > can exist a country considered "chaotic"? Law makes it lawful...right? Hule, > > the classic D&D example of a chaotic country, is very structured and very > > authoritarian. To my mind, it is anything but chaotic. > > Not true. > > Many African nations are a perfect example of a chaotic country - leaders > vie for position not through law, but through deciet and underhandedness. > > Having laws does not name a country lawful. Adherence to those laws does. > > > Ethan > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:53:37 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Durn, I'm apparently terrible at sarcasm. You and I don't disagree at all actually. What you wrote is precisely my point, and why I have moved away from alignments in my game. Note my terminology though...I've moved away, I haven't discarded them altogether. They make for a convenient tool if a player is arguing with your interpretation of Law. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Knott" To: Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 10:31 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] law, chaos, good, evil > From: "Jeff Daly" > > > Nah, I don't buy it. That suggests there is a higher law than that which > is > > dispensed by mortal rulers...hmm... > > That is indeed the crux of my argument and the source of our disagreement > -- if Law has no meaning beyond what mortal rulers say it is, then we have > no basis for using it for alignment purposes. However, you may note that > the ultimate source and authority for a system of law is not the key > point -- > the real key is whether such a system exists and to what degree it is > self-consistent. To take one example of a Chaotic society -- in the > Alphatian Empire, the only consistent rule that is never violated is > "Spellcasters rule, mundaners drool." Beyond that generalization, > every law is the whim of a spellcaster ruler. On that basis, Alphatia > is a very Chaotic society. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:27:30 +1000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: Mystara site down? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" it's back up again now - huzzah don't worry gang, it doesn't look like it's going to be long term or anything - I'm glad I didn't get my update out today, that would have been a let down. The update should be soon however as I've grown a bit sick of waiting for either of the artists I've been talking with to actually finish things >X-From_: davew@urda.heanet.ie Mon Jun 11 22:23:24 2001 >Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:23:01 +0100 >From: Dave Wilson >To: shawn stanley , gordon@slashnull.org >Subject: Re: Mystara site down? >References: <3.0.32.20010611221925.00b92274@pop3.norton.antivirus> >X-How-Many: Fifty or sixty > >Hi Shawn, > >I've had to move the site temporarily to another machine while we move >offices, and it looks like all has not gone as planned - sorry about this. >I'm working on it. shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 20:15:12 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jeff Daly Subject: The brilliant D&D movie. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just saw the movie and have a few thoughts about it. =20 I should say, first of all, that I do recommend it. I say this outright = because many of the details I give of the movie are going to be = negative. The graphics are good, and the movie does fairly well at = immersing the viewer. Unfortunately, the script is cheesy and the = non-heroes are flat. I won't go into a great deal of detail = there...since its been discussed to death already. However, there are one or two points that got me thinking about how the = movie could be brilliant...and we just don't know it. Since this part = of my post includes spoilers, I am putting some spaces between it and = here. Be forewarned. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . A number of things bugged me about the movie. The elf chick keeps = blahing things about "Let him alone, its his destiny" and "Don't = question it..." These little mystical things are annoying because there = is no real reason for her to have this knowledge. Why is the main = character the only one who gets to go retrieve the red staff? She says = its because its his destiny alone. She does that a number of times. = The other one, the don't question it, comes at the end when they all get = zapped to the sequel. Bleh. So here's a theory...the sequel comes out and one of the main characters = asks her, "So, any enlightenment? We could really use some in this = situation...can you turn that stuff on?" And she replies, = "Ah...sorry...I was just pulling your leg. I just wanted to sound cool. = Gosh...and you guys bought it too..." Here's the big one though. Every time the empress opened her mouth, I = just wanted some adult to show up and smack the little hippy chit = around. And had she not initiated the quest for the red staff, a whole = lot of grief would have been avoided. Remember that? She had to have = the red staff because the high council was going to take her gold staff. = She couldn't use her gold staff because she would be labeled a tyrant. So next morning I'm thinking...what does she do? She disbands the high = council and summons the gold dragons, coercing them to attack her own = city in order to destroy her political enemies. She uses the excuse of = "I'm doing it for the little guy" in order to rid herself of the only = check and balance to her absolute power. In one move she gains a = stranglehold on the empire and makes the commoners love her. Now, if = I'm supposed to believe she did this truly for their own good...that is, = as the initiator of war, she called forth the gold dragons to destroy = the city when verbal arguments weren't getting her way and took absolute = power over the commoners' lives in order to bring peace, prosperity, and = equality to them...then its a terrible movie. But if she actually = manipulated that bumbling wizard (You know, the bad guy who gets ahold = of the red dragon staff) into openly opposing her so that she could root = out her enemies, disband the high council, demonstrate her power to the = populace, and gain a large constituency heretofore untapped by her = colleagues...man, then its a brilliant movie. Heck, it even had me = fooled! No, I don't really think that's what's going on here. But couldn't you = imagine the sequel(and no, I don't think there will be one)? Couldn't = you imagine the heroes out questing for their lost comrade while the = empress begins to show her true colors? Perhaps she confides a little in = a familiar as a convenient tell to the audience. Then she sends for her = knight, the guy who retrieved the red dragon staff and broke it. The = familiar could ask whether she plans to kill him. She replies, "Kill = him? Oh, I admit the thought crossed my mind. Its terribly annoying = that he broke the red dragon staff, but at least I have the only = remaining one. No indeed, I plan to use him. I shall make a celebrity = out of him. I shall create an image of him for the commoners to focus = their love on and for the mages to focus their hate on. Then I shall = make sure the commoners come to see their beloved hero as an oppressor. = Perhaps he became that way when he gained fame...or perhaps he is merely = someone's puppet. When I discover his treachery, I shall make an = example of him to the populace, thus cementing their love for me and my = claim to the throne." ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 00:13:54 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Angelo Bertolli" > But what if you're the one making your own rules? Does this make all > monarchs lawful by default, or chaotic by default? That is where my argument about precedent and tradition would come in: Does a monarch make laws completely on whim, or is he guided by past practices and traditions? If the subjects of a monarch have no idea what to expect next, he is probably Chaotic -- but if they are as familiar with the philosophy that guides his lawmaking as he is, then he is probably Lawful. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 00:37:14 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Christopher Cherrington" > > Would this mean that Darokin is Chaotic, "he who has the Gold, makes the > rules"? Even given evidence of their judicial system, a system based on if > you buy the services of a lawyer, you must be guilty! Other countries would > see this as a corrupt/chaotic society. But Darokin also has the lowest > poverty level per capita, the people are happy, and anyone can attain > riches. Darokin certainly has some contradictory indications, but the last item you cite is rather decisive. Why don't the rich Darokinians do something to ensure that their positions remain permanent? In Darokin, there appears to be some sort of tradition that prevents rich Darokinians from passing laws that would ensure that rich Darokinians remained rich and that poor Darokinians never got rich enough to challenge their betters -- instead, Darokinians seems to assume some sort of philosophy of "fair play" that does nothing to stop the rich from falling into poverty (and thereby losing their privileges) or to stop the poor from becoming rich (and thus gaining power and influence). > You could say a chaotic > nation is a nation that is constantly changing, one that does not stagnate > because it does not follow all the traditions and precedents from before. That sounds like a Neutral aligned nation to me, assuming that its laws and customs evolve over time rather than changing suddenly and unexpectedly. Per Moorcock, pure Law equals stagnation, while pure Chaos equals anarchy. Any healthy society has to be somewhere in between, thought not necessarily in the exact middle. > In this light a person from a chaotic nation would say a lawful nation (like > Thyatis) was 'chaotic' or 'evil', they are behind the times and stagnant. Note that I never equated "Law" with "Good" or "Chaos" with "Evil". In Moorcock's works, Law and Chaos in pure form are both quite hostile to any sort of reasonable human life. On Mystara, this conflict is blunted by the fact that it has no champions of pure Law or Chaos. In most game worlds, the fact that one group is "Good" and the other "Evil" is sufficient cause for war between the two groups -- but on Mystara the fact that one group is "Lawful" and the other "Chaotic" does not in and of itself lead to any sort of conflict. As near as I can tell, the reason that Law/Chaos is more important than Good/Evil on Mystara is not the Mystarans attach greater importance to the Law/ Chaos axis but that they totally ignore the Good/Evil axis. In general, it is factors other than alignment that determine which groups are friends and which are enemies. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 01:04:01 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Master's Pawn Subject: Re: what would happen if? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I guess I would have the Lupin send the Drow a map with directions to the nearest portal back to the Realms!! In my Mystara, 'drow' is what non-swimming characters who insist on wearing their armor all the time do when they fall off an Irendi ship. "Oh, your frien' wid da big mouth, givin' da orders? He drow." ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:19:20 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Ancient One Organization: NOLAN P and I Subject: Re: what would happen if? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DROW DROW DROW YOUR GAME GENTLY ALL NIGHT LONG VERILY VERILY VERILY VERILY OD&D DROW ARE WRONG ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:30:27 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: what would happen if? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > DROW DROW DROW YOUR GAME > GENTLY ALL NIGHT LONG > VERILY VERILY VERILY VERILY > OD&D DROW ARE WRONG > Ever heard of that classic Mystaran poem, "Rime of the Ancient...One"? Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 08:55:51 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Running a campaign in AC630 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I am running a Mystaran Campaign in AC630. A couple of characters died while crossing out of Ethengar. Now they want some suggestions on new characters to start play with. At this time there is no Glantri, Darokin is a fragmented nation of several Kings, Karameikos does not exist except as fragmented nations like Darokin, the Savage Coast is sparsely populated (not colonized), Northern territories above Hule are the predecessors of Eusdria, Robrenn, and the Carnuilh, Lupin live in the hills of Western Glantri/Braejr, Ylari as a nation is still being colonized by Alphatia & Thyatis, and the other nations are pretty much as they are in AC1000. Any suggestions? (BTW they were attacked by the Tangut's while being led by a 12 year old horse archer, that is how some characters met their demise) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:11:22 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Ancient One Organization: NOLAN P and I Subject: Re: Running a campaign in AC630 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christopher Cherrington wrote: > > I am running a Mystaran Campaign in AC630. A couple of characters died > while crossing out of Ethengar. Now they want some suggestions on new > characters to start play with. At this time there is no Glantri, Darokin is > a fragmented nation of several Kings, Karameikos does not exist except as > fragmented nations like Darokin, the Savage Coast is sparsely populated (not > colonized), Northern territories above Hule are the predecessors of Eusdria, > Robrenn, and the Carnuilh, Lupin live in the hills of Western > Glantri/Braejr, Ylari as a nation is still being colonized by Alphatia & > Thyatis, and the other nations are pretty much as they are in AC1000. Any > suggestions? Dragonlord of Mystara types like hill country dwellers, Flaems living in or around Braejr (aka Glantri City to be) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:03:53 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Matthew Wang Subject: OT - Everquest / Baseball Link MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I apoligize bc this is off topic, but I deleted the link that was posted here last week concerning the Doug Glanville / Everquest story. If someone could please email me offline with it, I would greatly appreciate it, bc ESPN.com is a monster to navigate through. Thanks, Matt Wang __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:08:38 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Running a campaign in AC630 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: The Ancient One [mailto:greenlantern@HOTKEY.NET.AU] >> Dragonlord of Mystara types like hill country dwellers, Flaems living in or around Braejr (aka Glantri City to be) << What would be the timeline on this series? The events that take place in the novels are not listed in the history of Glantri. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 00:25:32 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Ancient One Organization: NOLAN P and I Subject: Re: Running a campaign in AC630 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christopher Cherrington wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: The Ancient One [mailto:greenlantern@HOTKEY.NET.AU] > >> > Dragonlord of Mystara types like hill country dwellers, Flaems living in > or around Braejr (aka Glantri City to be) > << > > What would be the timeline on this series? The events that take place in > the novels are not listed in the history of Glantri. Written as it was by a gifted lunatic suffering from Munchausen Syndrome, it may not be canonical in everyone's opinion, but the Hail the Heroes adventure certainly treats it as though it were. It is set centuries before the 1000AC gazette period, and in Hail the Heroes (HtH) it is described as being in the right time period, with a Dragon War - a war between dragons and between evil dragons and human races - breaking out before the final resolution. Possible characters from those books would include the standard races plus Drakes (shapeshifting dragonoids) and of course Flaems. I hesitate to divulge spoiler information, but it is listed in my timeline on my site I think - under that time period. BTW I should have suggested that before - my timeline covers the period. It is the same period as Mad Creeg in Ierendi, the allegation that the shield in the Temple of Halav in Zardreth is a fake, up to the time when the last priest of the Temple of Halav closes up the temple and activates its guards and wards (see below) AC 602. A rumour begins that the bronze Shield of Halav in the Temple of the Shield is a fake that never belonged to Halav. Mad Creeg claims all ten of the Ierendi Isles and declares himself ruler of the Kigdom of Ierendi. 603. Mad Creeg completes the expulsion of the Thyatians and declares Ierendi an independent kingdom. Plague strikes the Traladaran town of Zadreth and kills most of its inhabitants; it never recovers. 613. Civil war breaks out in the Milenian Empire of the Hollow World as Pelai secedes. The secession is stopped and Pelai remains within the Empire. 614. Adjatha the Drinker is stolen from the treasure vaults of Aumreayum during the sack of that settlement after the killing of Kurskos Ironhand. 619. The nameless Last Cleric of the Temple of the Shield tidies up the Temple, places traps and puzzles that only the faithful of Halav can easily overcome, seals the Temple, and dies peacefully. If you can get Hail the Heroes you could run it (with CD !) by making some minor amendments and not using the dated CD tracks - once the temple is sealed it is sealed until the hailable Heroes arrive. BTW my copy of the boxed set is for sale! (Ancient One the Darokin Sorceror ???) :) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:40:22 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In L.E. Mordicett's novels of Recluce his world consists of Chaos and = Order, which in that sense most of the nations are Order (ie Lawful) as = chaos is bending the laws, chaos is shattering them totally. I think this = is sort of what Mystara is based on. >>> uashell@EARTHLINK.NET 06/12/01 09:37PM >>> From: "Christopher Cherrington" > > Would this mean that Darokin is Chaotic, "he who has the Gold, makes the > rules"? Even given evidence of their judicial system, a system based on if > you buy the services of a lawyer, you must be guilty! Other countries would > see this as a corrupt/chaotic society. But Darokin also has the lowest > poverty level per capita, the people are happy, and anyone can attain > riches. Darokin certainly has some contradictory indications, but the last item = you cite is rather decisive. Why don't the rich Darokinians do something to ensure that their positions remain permanent? In Darokin, there appears to be some sort of tradition that prevents rich Darokinians from passing laws that would ensure that rich Darokinians remained rich and that poor Darokinians never got rich enough to challenge their betters -- instead, Darokinians seems to assume some sort of philosophy of "fair play" that does nothing to stop the rich from falling into poverty (and thereby = losing their privileges) or to stop the poor from becoming rich (and thus gaining power and influence). > You could say a chaotic > nation is a nation that is constantly changing, one that does not = stagnate > because it does not follow all the traditions and precedents from = before. That sounds like a Neutral aligned nation to me, assuming that its laws and customs evolve over time rather than changing suddenly and unexpectedly. Per Moorcock, pure Law equals stagnation, while pure Chaos equals anarchy. Any healthy society has to be somewhere in between, thought not necessarily in the exact middle. > In this light a person from a chaotic nation would say a lawful nation (like > Thyatis) was 'chaotic' or 'evil', they are behind the times and = stagnant. Note that I never equated "Law" with "Good" or "Chaos" with "Evil". In Moorcock's works, Law and Chaos in pure form are both quite hostile to any sort of reasonable human life. On Mystara, this conflict is blunted by the fact that it has no champions of pure Law or Chaos. In most game worlds, the fact that one group is "Good" and the other "Evil" is sufficient cause for war between the two groups -- but on Mystara the fact that one group is "Lawful" and the other "Chaotic" does not in and of itself lead to any sort of conflict. As near as I can tell, the reason that Law/Chaos is more important than Good/Evil on Mystara is not the Mystarans attach greater importance to the Law/ Chaos axis but that they totally ignore the Good/Evil axis. In general, it is factors other than alignment that determine which groups are friends and which are enemies. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=20 The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/=20 To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:41:13 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: what would happen if? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lol, too funny! >>> BoBoII@AOL.COM 06/12/01 10:04PM >>> I guess I would have the Lupin send the Drow a map with directions to the nearest portal back to the Realms!! In my Mystara, 'drow' is what non-swimming characters who insist on = wearing their armor all the time do when they fall off an Irendi ship. "Oh, your frien' wid da big mouth, givin' da orders? He drow." ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=20 The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/=20 To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 08:00:16 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Hule Comments: To: MYSTARA-L@.WIZARDS.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Besides continuing attacks by the master of Hule, I have noted certain = similarities of Hule and the Dark Sun social systems. Both seem to be = paranoid and suspicious, as well as relying on a caste system. Could Dark = Sun be an easy conversion (adventure wise) Of course I realize I will = forgo the psionics but other than that, the two cultures seem very close. = ie; no one questions the Master or his minions, as in no one questions the = Dragon-Kings or their minions. Am I way off the mark here? regards, JK Wolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:50:08 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: Hule MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 13 Jun 2001 08:00:16 -0700 Joe Kelly writes: > Besides continuing attacks by the master of Hule, I have noted > certain similarities of Hule and the Dark Sun social systems. Both > seem to be paranoid and suspicious, as well as relying on a caste > system. Could Dark Sun be an easy conversion (adventure wise) Of > course I realize I will forgo the psionics but other than that, the > two cultures seem very close. ie; no one questions the Master or his > minions, as in no one questions the Dragon-Kings or their minions. > Am I way off the mark here? Actually, at one point I was working on (for my campaign) a conversion of the Dark Sun module Black Spine to Hulean-occupied Sind, and it wasn't too difficult. As I recall, the converted adventure was to be titled The Black Mountains. However, with the premature death of my campaign, I lost interest, and the conversion was never finished. If you look on the official site, you should be able to find my article Gith of Mystara, which does include some of the basics of how I was going to convert it. Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/anowack/ ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:00:46 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Hule Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Aaron! JK Wolf >>> anowack@JUNO.COM 06/13/01 08:50AM >>> On Wed, 13 Jun 2001 08:00:16 -0700 Joe Kelly writes: > Besides continuing attacks by the master of Hule, I have noted > certain similarities of Hule and the Dark Sun social systems. Both > seem to be paranoid and suspicious, as well as relying on a caste > system. Could Dark Sun be an easy conversion (adventure wise) Of > course I realize I will forgo the psionics but other than that, the > two cultures seem very close. ie; no one questions the Master or his > minions, as in no one questions the Dragon-Kings or their minions. > Am I way off the mark here? Actually, at one point I was working on (for my campaign) a conversion of the Dark Sun module Black Spine to Hulean-occupied Sind, and it wasn't too difficult. As I recall, the converted adventure was to be titled The Black Mountains. However, with the premature death of my campaign, I lost interest, and the conversion was never finished. If you look on the official site, you should be able to find my article Gith of Mystara, which does include some of the basics of how I was going to convert it. Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/anowack/=20 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=20 The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/=20 To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:16:39 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Richard Tongue Subject: Re: Theory Of Psionics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Psionics is one of those issues that always seem to cause antagonism - but I agree that it can be an excellent feature of the game. I've been messing around with Psionics for OD&D ( see OD&DITIES 4, in July ), and I had three ideas for bringing it into Mystara. 1 - Use something like the Talarn from Dragon - a small group of people who have an unusual power that they try to hide, and have kept secret throughout the years. This easily fits into Mystara - they are just from a similar source to the Alphatians. 2 - Have it as a practice in a remote area - introduce it through a PC / NPC from a remote land, from Davinia maybe. The advantage of this is that it is only a one-shot event, but this is also it's disadvantage, if your players like it and want more. 3 - After a major event, have psionic powers appearing from amoungst the local population, an act of an Immortal to change the face of Mystara. This could be connected with the Wrath of the Immortals or another similar event. This could take a long time to become noticed, especially if it was only possible to those born after the event. One idea I couldn't use was for this new ability being given to a culture in the Hollow World, to counteract the power of Alphatia. I was all set up to use option 1, with a secretive group scattered across Karameikos and Thyatis, when one of my PC's, who had been nagging me to bring in a psionicist for his character for over a year, changed his mind when it came to roll his character. The plotline is now being saved for a future occasion ( mostly cribbed from Dragon, but with a few changes.) Richard Tongue ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:22:06 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Richard Tongue Subject: Re: An adventure idea: Grave Robbers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does it have to be a clerical order that is raising the dead? An 11th-level Magic-User can cast Reincarnation. Because of the likely change in their appearence, the M-U could be setting up a community for the raised people - they may not want to go back to their families, especially if they had been changed into an Orc. The Clerical Order would see this possibly as sacrilege, but certainly as rivalry - they could make a fortune for raising people, and if the M-U is performing such a service for less money then they might wish to put a stop to it for this reason. This turns the plot around, of course - now the M-U is the 'good guy' and the Clerics are acting out of self-interest. This could cause some problems within the party, especially if one of them is a cleric. Richard Tongue ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:25:59 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Richard Tongue Subject: OD&DITIES MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi. Issue 4 of OD&DITIES is on the way in July, but vitally needs submissions. They can be on any topic related to OD&D, and to Mystara as well ( though stats should be in OD&D ). As long as you wish, on any topic you feel is interesting. I also ask for more letters, more feedback - what is good or bad about the magazine? The response so far has been excellent, but limited. Please send your articles! See my website at www. tongue. fsnet. co. uk for details. Thanks, Richard Tongue ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 18:53:34 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Hule MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe Kelly wrote: > > Besides continuing attacks by the master of Hule, I have noted certain similarities of Hule and the Dark Sun social systems. Both seem to be paranoid and suspicious, as well as relying on a caste system. Could Dark Sun be an easy conversion (adventure wise) Of course I realize I will forgo the psionics but other than that, the two cultures seem very close. ie; no one questions the Master or his minions, as in no one questions the Dragon-Kings or their minions. Am I way off the mark here? DS's sorcerer-kings rule only limited extents of land (a single city each), Hule is an very large empire. Moreover, the basic alignment of most sorceror-kings is lawful (with the insuing centralized government, coherent --though evil-- law systems, and a very direct influence of the king on each citizen's life), while Hule is definitely chaotic (lots of small communities, and the whole "holy" lie system). I think the comparison holds only slightly, and even then only when applied to cities. BTW, I don't think the Hulean caste system matches the DS system (king-templars-nobles-citizen-slaves, for those who don't know). The Hulean system has only the Holy Men hierarchy, and slavery doesn't seem as prevalent as in most DS city-states. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:36:58 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > If you follow your own rules, you tend to be lawful. Even Hitler followed > his own rules (he could have won the war by attacking Turkey and gaining all > her oil, but he did not attack because his rules needed a reason to attack, > and he had no reason). One of the reasons I don't like this (although valid explanation) is because the characters will have their alignments change as they go from country to country. Unless of course, you mean that the players always follow their own rules without changing them. I think that's the general accepted AD&D definition of law/chaos. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:39:19 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Many African nations are a perfect example of a chaotic country - leaders > vie for position not through law, but through deciet and underhandedness. > > Having laws does not name a country lawful. Adherence to those laws does. But that's more of a judgement call on your part. (Even though I'd make the same judgement too.) Deciet and underhandedness don't necessarily need to be considered chaotic if they are expected to act that way, or if they are consistently deceitful and underhanded, right? Angelo ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:49:44 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > My system evolved from people randomising backgrounds that included > features such as "compulsive gambler", "thoughtless", "liar" etc. so > when they also rolled eg "thoughtful", "caring" "selfless" they wanted > to roleplay them out so the bad would be cancelled out by the good - so > you could start off being an alignment you DON'T like but try and play > within the rules to shift alignment to what you DO want. Usually not eg > CE to LG but say CE to CN with violent tendencies. Actually this got me to thinking about something I was trying to come up with before. If anyone can help me, just let me know if you remember what these things are: I was wanting to give characters some kind of social traits which are based on either sociology or psychology. I think it was sociology but I can't remember. They were things like "desire to dominate." And different people have different degrees of this. I wasn't going to use it for the normal game, but rather for a video game to give the NPCs more personality. Angelo ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:58:07 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Castille Baromon de Preto Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > From: Angelo Bertolli > > One of the reasons I don't like this (although valid explanation) is because > the characters will have their alignments change as they go from country to > country. Unless of course, you mean that the players always follow their > own rules without changing them. I think that's the general accepted AD&D > definition of law/chaos. > Of course their alignment won't change from country to country, but other countries would view their alignment as being different. Much like the AD&D racial tensions table. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 18:09:58 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That's why a greater law than the temporal mortal power who is "the law" for a given country. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Knott" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 12:13 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] law, chaos, good, evil > From: "Angelo Bertolli" > > > But what if you're the one making your own rules? Does this make all > > monarchs lawful by default, or chaotic by default? > > That is where my argument about precedent and tradition would come in: > Does a monarch make laws completely on whim, or is he guided by past > practices and traditions? If the subjects of a monarch have no idea what > to expect next, he is probably Chaotic -- but if they are as familiar with > the philosophy that guides his lawmaking as he is, then he is probably > Lawful. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 01:33:27 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I was wondering if people on the list have thought about using the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay alignment system, it looks quite a lot clearer and slightly more meaningful than the complex AD&D's (and the ambiguous D&D): 1. Neutral: most folk are neutral; that means, they care about their interests and those of people close to them in a personal way (family, friends, home town and maybe country) and keeping an athmosphere which favors adequate conditions for that to happen. They are against curtailing of their personal freedom and any excesses of violence, cruelty and authoritarism. 2.Good: good alignment means a compromise to enlighting the lives of other fellow mortals, looking for learning, life quality, rights of the individual, beauty, and opposing evil, violence and anything which can spring suffering. 3. Lawful: it's kinda taking good too far: the strictures to guarantee the wellbeing of folk become more important than that wellbeing itself. Take the bigoted witch-hunter who burns at the stake any creature suspicious of the "taint of evil", even if they are defenseless and helpless. 4. Evil: personal gain takes priority over any other concerns, so it's ok to go into extremes of violence, scheming, destruction. 5. Chaos: it's to evil what law is to good: commiting cruel acts not for personal gain, fame and profit, but for the sake of their own destructive effect upon order and society. Well, that's just an sketch. So, the graph goes like this: Law----Good----Neutral----Evil----Chaos The system merges quite nicely the ethical and moral alignments of common folk (and to nations, to some degree) with the metaphysical alignments (you know, WH is quite strong in the Law-Chaos struggle) Andr�s ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:13:22 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Going by the way you describe them...lawful, chaotic, and evil all fall under evil. The example of the witchhunter is not a good one for lawful as he is not obeying a higher law which says, "Burn only those who are guilty". Good should not oppose "anything which brings suffering" since learning is a type of suffering. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andr�s Piquer Otero" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 7:33 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] law, chaos, good, evil > I was wondering if people on the list have thought about using the Warhammer > Fantasy Roleplay alignment system, it looks quite a lot clearer and slightly > more meaningful than the complex AD&D's (and the ambiguous D&D): > > 1. Neutral: most folk are neutral; that means, they care about their > interests and those of people close to them in a personal way (family, > friends, home town and maybe country) and keeping an athmosphere which > favors adequate conditions for that to happen. They are against curtailing > of their personal freedom and any excesses of violence, cruelty and > authoritarism. > > 2.Good: good alignment means a compromise to enlighting the lives of other > fellow mortals, looking for learning, life quality, rights of the > individual, beauty, and opposing evil, violence and anything which can > spring suffering. > > 3. Lawful: it's kinda taking good too far: the strictures to guarantee the > wellbeing of folk become more important than that wellbeing itself. Take the > bigoted witch-hunter who burns at the stake any creature suspicious of the > "taint of evil", even if they are defenseless and helpless. > > 4. Evil: personal gain takes priority over any other concerns, so it's ok to > go into extremes of violence, scheming, destruction. > > 5. Chaos: it's to evil what law is to good: commiting cruel acts not for > personal gain, fame and profit, but for the sake of their own destructive > effect upon order and society. > > Well, that's just an sketch. So, the graph goes like this: > > Law----Good----Neutral----Evil----Chaos > > The system merges quite nicely the ethical and moral alignments of common > folk (and to nations, to some degree) with the metaphysical alignments (you > know, WH is quite strong in the Law-Chaos struggle) > > Andr�s > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:24:45 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: need help in building your world? Comments: To: MYSTARA-L@.WIZARDS.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable go here: I love it! I haven't used it yet but I will count on it! http://www.irony.com/toc.html ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 20:43:32 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Kar Ess Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil In-Reply-To: <000901c0f477$977e5b60$6232140a@jdaly> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Another view on alignments: I give these to my players as a guideline and jumping off point LAWFUL GOOD Will keep their word if they give it Would not attack an unarmed foe Would accept surrender Will not lie Will not use poison Will help those in need Prefers to work with others Responds well to higher authority Trustful of organizations LAWFUL NEUTRAL Will keep their word if they give it May attack an unarmed foe May lie May accept surrender May use poison May help those in need Prefers to work with others Responds well to higher authority Trustful of organizations LAWFUL EVIL Will keep letter of their word if they give it Would attack an unarmed foe May accept surrender May lie Will use poison Will not help those in need Prefers to work with others Responds well to higher authority Trustful of organizations NEUTRAL GOOD Will keep their word to others of good alignment Would not attack an unarmed foe Would accept surrender May lie if for good Will not use poison Will help those in need May work with others Indifferent to higher authority Indifferent to organizations TRUE NEUTRAL Will keep their word if in their best interest May attack an unarmed foe May accept surrender May lie if in their best interest May use poison May help those in need May work with others Indifferent to higher authority Indifferent to organizations NEUTRAL EVIL Will not necessarily keep their word Would attack an unarmed foe May accept surrender May lie Will use poison Will not help those in need May work with others Indifferent to higher authority Indifferent to organizations CHAOTIC GOOD Will keep their word to others of good alignment Would not attack an unarmed foe Would accept surrender May lie if for good Will not use poison Will help those in need Prefers to work alone Responds poorly to higher authority Distrustful of organizations CHAOTIC NEUTRAL Will keep their word if in their best interest May attack an unarmed foe May accept surrender Would lie if felt like it May use poison May help those in need Prefers to work alone Responds poorly to higher authority Distrustful of organizations CHAOTIC EVIL Will not necessarily keep their word Would attack an unarmed foe May accept surrender Would lie if felt like it Will use poison Will not help those in need Prefers to work alone Responds poorly to higher authority Distrustful of organizations __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:18:11 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Ancient One Organization: NOLAN P and I Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Angelo Bertolli wrote: > > > My system evolved from people randomising backgrounds that included > > features such as "compulsive gambler", "thoughtless", "liar" etc. so > > when they also rolled eg "thoughtful", "caring" "selfless" they wanted > > to roleplay them out so the bad would be cancelled out by the good - so > > you could start off being an alignment you DON'T like but try and play > > within the rules to shift alignment to what you DO want. Usually not eg > > CE to LG but say CE to CN with violent tendencies. > > Actually this got me to thinking about something I was trying to come up > with before. If anyone can help me, just let me know if you remember what > these things are: > > I was wanting to give characters some kind of social traits which are based > on either sociology or psychology. I think it was sociology but I can't > remember. They were things like "desire to dominate." And different people > have different degrees of this. > > I wasn't going to use it for the normal game, but rather for a video game to > give the NPCs more personality. It's sociology that I use - the degree of boundary-setting versus the desire to dominate or be dominated. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 00:32:54 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Theory Of Psionics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Richard Tongue" > > 2 - Have it as a practice in a remote area - introduce it through a PC / NPC > from a > remote land, from Davinia maybe. The advantage of this is that it is only a > one-shot > event, but this is also it's disadvantage, if your players like it and want > more. On the other hand, it has a great future if the "remote area" in question is the Savage Coast and psionic ability is equivalent to a bizarre manifestation of the Red Curse. When each level gained causes an ability score loss, you shouldn't have too many single-classed psions or psychic warriors, although many natives of that region will take as many levels in those classes as they can afford before ability score losses make further advancement too costly. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:51:03 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Roger WINTER Subject: 3e Immortals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hiyall, I am gearing up for a 3e campaign starting in Karameikos. I have worked out the classes and races I want to use, I can post these if = anyone wants, but domains and alignments for Immortals are proving a bit = more difficult. I've checked a number of Mystara 3e sites, but no-one = seems to agree. Let's take Ilsundal as an example. Is he LG or LN? Which of these domains should his clerics have access to? Animal(1 site = gives this domain) Earth(1) Fire(2) Good(2) Healing(1) Law(2) Plant(4) = Protection(3) Travel(1) War(1). IMC Immortals will grant access to their own sphere, ie Ilsundal, as an = Immortal of Energy grants access to Fire, but what do you think about the = rest. IMO he should have Plant - How could he do Trees of Life etc without = it, Protection - self explanatory and Travel - his followers all seem to = be on the move most of the time. How many domains should each Immortal have? Should this be a reflection of = their rank? All ideas gratefully received. Ta Hammer of Ulric ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:51:09 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Roger WINTER Subject: Filling in the gaps in Karameikos Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hiyall, I am gearing up for a 3e campaign starting in Karameikos - its the bit of = the Known World I know best - but I am missing two adventures, B10 and = X12, and DMR1. (If anyone in the UK has these at sensible prices, please = let me know) GAZ1 mentions dwarves and gnomes of Highforge, halflings all over the = place, Calarii elves of the central forests and Vyalia elves of the = eastern forests. According to B3 (second version) there are also dwarves, = gnomes, halflings and elves (are these Calarii or Vyalia?) in the Valley = of Haven, watched over by Thendara aka Ordana. (More puzzling is why B3 = moved from being part of Glantri in its first incarnation) >From what I have found, the Calarii are standard elves, but the Vyalia are = left vague in GAZ1, and missed out of DDA4 The Dymrak Dread, even though = it is set in their homeland. I am also missing DMR1 DM Screen which integrated Thunder Rift into = Karameikos, but I do have Thunder Rift. If anyone can let me know how these bits all fit together I would be = grateful. Ta Hammer of Ulric ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:25:56 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Filling in the gaps in Karameikos In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Roger WINTER wrote: Hiyall, > I am gearing up for a 3e campaign starting in > Karameikos - its the bit of the Known World I know > best - but I am missing two adventures, B10 and X12, > and DMR1. (If anyone in the UK has these at sensible > prices, please let me know) B10 has alot of info that is very useful for any Karameikos campaign. It goes into some detail about the Goblins of Dymrak and the Lake of Lost Dreams. Also it extensively covers the Valley of Hutaaka located in the mountains north of Threshold. However, you can easily run a campaign in Karameikos without this info. > GAZ1 mentions dwarves and gnomes of Highforge, > halflings all over the place, Calarii elves of the > central forests and Vyalia elves of the eastern > forests. According to B3 (second version) there are > also dwarves, gnomes, halflings and elves (are > these Calarii or Vyalia?) in the Valley of Haven, > watched over by Thendara aka Ordana. (More puzzling > is why B3 moved from being part of Glantri in its > first incarnation) The dwarves of Highforge belong mainly to the Stronghollow clan (and maybe also some minor clans). Also, Dwarves emigrated from Rockhome or Thyatis may be found in the towns and cities of Karameikos. Gnomes mainly belong to the Highforge clan, although I'd suggest that there are also minor clans of gnomes. IMC I've toyed with the ideas of smaller clans living outside of Highforge. (Forest gnomes) The original version of Haven was very different from the second one. IMC I use James Mishlers version of Haven. This is based on the second version and states that Haven is actually a different plane on the border between Karameikos and the Plane of Faerie. As for the elves there, Id suggest that they are of a third clan (Haven Elves). > From what I have found, the Calarii are standard > elves, but the Vyalia are left vague in GAZ1, and > missed out of DDA4 The Dymrak Dread, even though it > is set in their homeland. The Vyalia are vaguely described in B10, but also covered in Dawn of the Emperors boxed set. Their lands are mostly within the Empire of Thyatis, but also reach within Karameikos. As far as I understand they are usually only found in the very east of Dymrak forest, while the westernmost parts of that forest are dominated by goblins (and IMC also a circle of Hags). > I am also missing DMR1 DM Screen which integrated > Thunder Rift into Karameikos, but I do have Thunder > Rift. I also dont have DMR1, but from what I understand it basically only mentions a portal from Thunder Rift to a location close to the village of Bywater (Not far from Penhaligon) > If anyone can let me know how these bits all fit > together I would be grateful. Hope this helps. Also, if you're interested you can check out my articles on Karameikos on dnd.starflung.com I also have alot of more ideas on fleshing out Karameikos, but not all of it has been organized yet.. Sincerely, Haavard Faanes ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 17:51:43 +0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Solmyr Subject: Re: Hule Comments: To: Porphyrogenitus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > On Wed, 13 Jun 2001 08:00:16 -0700 Joe Kelly writes: > > Besides continuing attacks by the master of Hule, I have noted > > certain similarities of Hule and the Dark Sun social systems. Both > > seem to be paranoid and suspicious, as well as relying on a caste > > system. Could Dark Sun be an easy conversion (adventure wise) Of > > course I realize I will forgo the psionics but other than that, the > > two cultures seem very close. ie; no one questions the Master or his > > minions, as in no one questions the Dragon-Kings or their minions. > > Am I way off the mark here? > It is certainly possible, though I myself am more a fan of "Make them love and believe in me" Master than "Crush all who resist me" Master. >From my experience with Athas, I would say that Hule might be best approximated by Nibenay (distant ruler who is rarely seen and wields power through his priests). -- ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:52:26 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Hule Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sort of like a Darken Rahl in the Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind? >>> solmyr@KOLUMBUS.FI 06/14/01 07:51AM >>> > On Wed, 13 Jun 2001 08:00:16 -0700 Joe Kelly = writes: > > Besides continuing attacks by the master of Hule, I have noted > > certain similarities of Hule and the Dark Sun social systems. Both > > seem to be paranoid and suspicious, as well as relying on a caste > > system. Could Dark Sun be an easy conversion (adventure wise) Of > > course I realize I will forgo the psionics but other than that, the > > two cultures seem very close. ie; no one questions the Master or his > > minions, as in no one questions the Dragon-Kings or their minions. > > Am I way off the mark here? > It is certainly possible, though I myself am more a fan of "Make them love and believe in me" Master than "Crush all who resist me" Master. >From my experience with Athas, I would say that Hule might be best approximated by Nibenay (distant ruler who is rarely seen and wields power through his priests). -- ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:47:25 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: John Calvin Subject: Re: 3e Immortals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> Let's take Ilsundal as an example. Is he LG or LN? Which of these domains should his clerics have access to? Animal(1 site gives this domain) Earth(1) Fire(2) Good(2) Healing(1) Law(2) Plant(4) Protection(3) Travel(1) War(1). IMC Immortals will grant access to their own sphere, ie Ilsundal, as an Immortal of Energy grants access to Fire, but what do you think about the rest. IMO he should have Plant - How could he do Trees of Life etc without it, Protection - self explanatory and Travel - his followers all seem to be on the move most of the time. << I take this approach as well. All Energy immortals should have access to the Fire domain. All Thought immortals to Air, Entropy to Death, etc... As for the others, I'm not so sure. Plant definitely. Protection would fit more with Mealidin than Ilsundal IMO. Travel...I don't know. Aren't most of his followers (the Alfheimers) all settled in Alfheim (at least pre WotI)? The Great Migration (which Ilsundal lead his people on) was a journey, but it was a journey with a destination in mind. I guess I could go either way on this one. >> How many domains should each Immortal have? Should this be a reflection of their rank? << This is an interesting idea. I've been toying around with some ideas for an Immortal level campaign recently, but the problem is that I need to conver the Immortal rules over to 3E. How many domains should an innitiate immortal have access to? 2 at least, possibly 3? I like the idea that as an immortal grows he gains access to more domains. I think I'm going to use it. John ===== Rule #53. If the beautiful princess that I capture says "I'll never marry you! Never, do you hear me, NEVER!!!", I will say "Oh well" and kill her. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:55:23 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: 3e Immortals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: John Calvin [mailto:chimpman.geo@YAHOO.COM] >>> How many domains should each Immortal have? Should this be a reflection of their rank? <<< >> This is an interesting idea. I've been toying around with some ideas for an Immortal level campaign recently, but the problem is that I need to conver the Immortal rules over to 3E. How many domains should an innitiate immortal have access to? 2 at least, possibly 3? I like the idea that as an immortal grows he gains access to more domains. I think I'm going to use it. << All immortals have access to all spells cast as a 36th level caster; but you could possibly limit this for 3E. If the immortal was an initiate; then 2 spheres cast normally (ie expends 1PP), all other spheres cast at double PP. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:59:11 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: 3e Immortals In-Reply-To: <71E277A7F4FCD2118A700008C79F72559C4E1A@JOSHUA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Christopher Cherrington wrote: > All immortals have access to all spells cast as a 36th level caster; but you > could possibly limit this for 3E. If the immortal was an initiate; then 2 > spheres cast normally (ie expends 1PP), all other spheres cast at double PP. Actually, Immortals have access to all spells cast any time they want, for a flat rate of a few TP. They aren't restricted to a 9-column unless they spend the lowest amount. Unless you're talking about the horrible magic rules from the gold box, in which case, i'll leave you at that. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 02:48:06 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Ancient One Organization: NOLAN P and I Subject: NEW EZINE AVAILABLE FOR SUBSCRIPTION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, My business is releasing an e-zine with at least 16 pages of feature per issue, one issue per month. A free copy is available on request, after which subscription at the rate of $10.00 US for the year is required. Content is at least 75% Mystara-compatible, dealing with the similar "World of Mystery" open license concept. First issue includes part one of the rules for Hardball as a tabletop wargame or for RPG, two chapters of an extremely erudite twelve-chapter Al-Qadim feature useable in any sort of Arabian Nights campaign, as well as a food feature for Karameikan cuisine and a new character class. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:00:30 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: John Calvin Subject: Re: 3e Immortals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> From: John Calvin [mailto:chimpman.geo@YAHOO.COM] >> This is an interesting idea. I've been toying around with some ideas for an Immortal level campaign recently, but the problem is that I need to conver the Immortal rules over to 3E. How many domains should an innitiate immortal have access to? 2 at least, possibly 3? I like the idea that as an immortal grows he gains access to more domains. I think I'm going to use it. << All immortals have access to all spells cast as a 36th level caster; but you could possibly limit this for 3E. If the immortal was an initiate; then 2 spheres cast normally (ie expends 1PP), all other spheres cast at double PP. << Actually I was thinking more about the domains that a particular immortal's clerics would get to choose from. Note that domains and shperes are probably two different things. The 3E domains tend to be quite a bit more focused than an OD&D shpere would be. IIRC domains have a single spell for each level (thus 9 spells per domain). These spells become the bonus spells that clerics who have chosen a particular domain can cast. Or something like that... I don't have my 3E PHB handy at the moment. Anyway domains are used to enhance the powers of mortal followers, not limit the powers of the immortals themselves. Although that idea is not without its merits, I'm not sure that it would be worth the trouble. I always found the old immortal rule's spell casting system to be overly complex. I have to think about that some more. John ===== Rule #53. If the beautiful princess that I capture says "I'll never marry you! Never, do you hear me, NEVER!!!", I will say "Oh well" and kill her. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:12:30 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Need some feedback Comments: To: MYSTARA-L@.WIZARDS.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok, as most of you know IMC the drow do exist. Anyways, the party has told = the drow that they don't want anything to do with them. Of course I want = them to be eliminated so this is a conflict. So now thanks to FNN I have = an idea of consequences by way of inaction. Here it is: The party are going to be going to Port Siers (ie freeport) as they get = there they will meet up with their good friend Cyric Kenafin (Drow = Commander of the Darokin Operations) anyway the party will tell him that = they don't want any trouble, of course I need them to somehow understand = why he is there (IN Darokin City he runs the Assassins Guild) The Drow are = going to get rid of the Council of the city. How? Well first of all 6 of = Cyrics assassins are there with him, one of them known as Shadow Jack = (some of you might be familiar with him, he is a 20th level assassin and = works with shadow magic) also, 4 Scro Longships (I replaced the Orcs of = the serpent Peninsula with the Scro.) show up, of course being a pirate = down it doesn't raise many eyebrows) but they are there for a coup, and = with their military tatics and the Drow espionage network it will get = pulled off. The problem I have is I Have NO IDEA how to foreshadow this = event to the players. How do I make them curious (which they never are!) = about what could be befalling Freeport? any ideas? Please help me! JK Wolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 03:40:55 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Ancient One Organization: NOLAN P and I Subject: Re: 3e Immortals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Calvin wrote: > > >> > From: John Calvin [mailto:chimpman.geo@YAHOO.COM] > >> > This is an interesting idea. I've been toying around with some ideas for an > Immortal level campaign recently, but the problem is that I need to conver > the > Immortal rules over to 3E. How many domains should an innitiate immortal > have > access to? 2 at least, possibly 3? I like the idea that as an immortal > grows > he gains access to more domains. I think I'm going to use it. > << > > All immortals have access to all spells cast as a 36th level caster; but you > could possibly limit this for 3E. If the immortal was an initiate; then 2 > spheres cast normally (ie expends 1PP), all other spheres cast at double PP. > << > > Actually I was thinking more about the domains that a particular immortal's > clerics would get to choose from. Note that domains and shperes are probably > two different things. The 3E domains tend to be quite a bit more focused than > an OD&D shpere would be. IIRC domains have a single spell for each level (thus > 9 spells per domain). These spells become the bonus spells that clerics who > have chosen a particular domain can cast. Or something like that... I don't > have my 3E PHB handy at the moment. > > Anyway domains are used to enhance the powers of mortal followers, not limit > the powers of the immortals themselves. Although that idea is not without its > merits, I'm not sure that it would be worth the trouble. I always found the > old immortal rule's spell casting system to be overly complex. I have to think > about that some more. Perhaps if you are going to put effort into anything like this it might be worth the time to create five super domains for clerics of immortals (rather than clerics of philosophies who can use regular rules). Spheres are more subtle in that their oppositions and alliances operate in many domains at once, and immortals' portfolios are odd usually - they relate sometimes to species or peoples and some immortals, like real-life mythological gods, have a confused mixture of features. Better then to create five big portfolios and stress an emphasis on certain spells as a flavour rather than strong prohibitive guideline. Surprise or not, that would tend to make 3e Mystaran clerics a lot like the OD&D clerics. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 03:49:35 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Ancient One Organization: NOLAN P and I Subject: Re: Need some feedback MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well the simple solution is to have them crossed or hassled by someone working for the baddies, then in the ensuing fight or pursuit if they beat the person working for the baddies have them find an incriminating document on the body - this requires a little preparation of a prop on your part. the reason for crossing the agent's path should be simple and one of the classics - competition for a resource or treasure, etc. The alternative to this might be as simple as getting the dullard PCs hired by an intelligence service (KGB - Karameikan Guard Bureau, GRU - Glantrian Reconaissance Unit, etc.etc.) to specifically do certain things and find certain things. This allows the introduction of a lot of your favourite sorts of spy type characters. The other consideration is, are your players disinterested generally or just in this bit of the campaign world? If the former, my sympathies, if the latter, change the "pitch" of the game to something they prefer. If they want action then the plotting in the background is just that - the background / excuse for the fights. Sooner or later in a good campaign one of them will find a lovable or likeable NPC and that is your way to draw them into your world that extra step. See, I have found races like the Drow do not generally inspire interest unless / until there are renegades of the race to make them less 2-dimensional and simplistic and/or the evil monster race are given foes of equal clarity and coolness who can be companions, sponsors or rescuees of the PCs. Drow in particular are scary to PCs as they are a tough race to fight. The PCs may actually be roleplaying quite well (intentionally or not) if you think about it - if they have no HOOK to get them involved, why would they spontaneously jump into a situation? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 06:36:14 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Richard Tongue Subject: Re: Filling in the Gaps in Karameikos MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DMR1 has the adventure 'Escape from Thunder Rift', that is designed to be used with the 'Thunder Rift' setting. One possible outcome has the PC's leaving Thunder Rift for Karameikos, but no extra information on Karameikos is given, other than a map of part of the Known World. IMO DDA1 isn't as good a DM's Screen as AC9 (which also has an excellent adventure), so I don't advise you to buy it for that reason. Richard Tongue -----Original Message----- From: Roger WINTER To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Date: Thursday, June 14, 2001 10:51 Subject: [MYSTARA] 3e Immortals Hiyall, I am gearing up for a 3e campaign starting in Karameikos. I have worked out the classes and races I want to use, I can post these if anyone wants, but domains and alignments for Immortals are proving a bit more difficult. I've checked a number of Mystara 3e sites, but no-one seems to agree. Let's take Ilsundal as an example. Is he LG or LN? Which of these domains should his clerics have access to? Animal(1 site gives this domain) Earth(1) Fire(2) Good(2) Healing(1) Law(2) Plant(4) Protection(3) Travel(1) War(1). IMC Immortals will grant access to their own sphere, ie Ilsundal, as an Immortal of Energy grants access to Fire, but what do you think about the rest. IMO he should have Plant - How could he do Trees of Life etc without it, Protection - self explanatory and Travel - his followers all seem to be on the move most of the time. How many domains should each Immortal have? Should this be a reflection of their rank? All ideas gratefully received. Ta Hammer of Ulric ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:59:50 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Richard Tongue Subject: Re: NEW EZINE AVAILABLE FOR SUBSCRIPTION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Will you ship to UK? Richard Tongue -----Original Message----- From: The Ancient One To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Date: Thursday, June 14, 2001 05:43 Subject: [MYSTARA] NEW EZINE AVAILABLE FOR SUBSCRIPTION >Hi, >My business is releasing an e-zine with at least 16 pages of feature per >issue, one issue per month. >A free copy is available on request, after which subscription at the >rate of $10.00 US for the year is required. >Content is at least 75% Mystara-compatible, dealing with the similar >"World of Mystery" open license concept. >First issue includes part one of the rules for Hardball as a tabletop >wargame or for RPG, two chapters of an extremely erudite twelve-chapter >Al-Qadim feature useable in any sort of Arabian Nights campaign, as well >as a food feature for Karameikan cuisine and a new character class. > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:03:10 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Richard Tongue Subject: Re: NEW EZINE AVAILABLE FOR SUBSCRIPTION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Whoops. Guess I missed the 'e' of zine. Also, whoops - didn't mean to send this to the list. Whoops twice. Richard Tongue -----Original Message----- From: The Ancient One To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Date: Thursday, June 14, 2001 05:43 Subject: [MYSTARA] NEW EZINE AVAILABLE FOR SUBSCRIPTION >Hi, >My business is releasing an e-zine with at least 16 pages of feature per >issue, one issue per month. >A free copy is available on request, after which subscription at the >rate of $10.00 US for the year is required. >Content is at least 75% Mystara-compatible, dealing with the similar >"World of Mystery" open license concept. >First issue includes part one of the rules for Hardball as a tabletop >wargame or for RPG, two chapters of an extremely erudite twelve-chapter >Al-Qadim feature useable in any sort of Arabian Nights campaign, as well >as a food feature for Karameikan cuisine and a new character class. > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 04:42:17 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Ancient One Organization: NOLAN P and I Subject: Re: NEW EZINE AVAILABLE FOR SUBSCRIPTION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard Tongue wrote: > > Will you ship to UK? > > Richard Tongue er... an e-zine is electronic so yes... if you mean print version of same or other publications, yes indeed. :0 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:50:44 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Need NPCs? Comments: To: MYSTARA-L@.WIZARDS.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Go Here: http://spitfire.ausys.se/johan/village/default.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 19:35:20 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: 3e Immortals In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:51 AM 6/14/01 +0100, you wrote: > >How many domains should each Immortal have? Should this be a reflection of their rank? I think so. Currently, I'm going with this ranking system: Initiate- 3 domains Temporal/Celestial- 4 domains Empyreal/Eternal- 5 domains Hierarch- 6 domains As for the which domains should they gain access to, I can see the rationale behind making the element of the Sphere they belong to one of their domains (Fire- Energy, Death- Entropy, Water- Time, Air- Thought, Earth- Matter), but I'm generally of the inclination to simply give them access only to those spheres that seem like they should be part of their portfolio. For instance, I don't see Korotiku as necessarily having access to Air, simply due to his allegiance to Thought, but I have his domains (IIRC- have a working list somewhere here) as Portal, Travel, Trickery, Chaos, and something else. Anyway, as I said, I've been working on a list, and I'll post some of them in the next day or so and get some feedback. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message.