* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Conversion Started at 05-23-04 10:10 AM by Rizak the Really Horrible Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=244828 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Rizak the Really Horrible Date : 05-23-04 10:10 AM Thread Title : Conversion I've been playing 1st Edition D&D for 20 years or so. I've watched this new version 3.11 for Workgroups for the last few years and seen my beloved game start to move away from the way that I enjoy playing it. Since there is so much available merchandise for this newer version, does anyone have a way to convert these overly complicated stats to the more streamlined versions, pre-2000? I'm new to these forums, so if this is covered elsewhere, please point the way. Thanks all! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : vader42xx Date : 05-23-04 10:22 AM There is no other forum for this sort of question as of yet but the mods are working on one so keep an eye out for it. As of now, however, you're in the right place. :) And I haven't seen any real "system" for converting to or from 3e (it's not like converting from basic, 1e, or 2e...too many of the important systems are different). But I've converted several monsters from 3e to 2e and it usually just takes a little common sense. Many of the powers are similar to 1e (or 2e) powers and you don't need to worry about "challenge ratings" or any of the other complicated 3e things. In short, you have it a lot easier converting backwards than the 3e guys have of converting forwards. ;) Some of the things I keep in mind when converting backwards are: 1- For THAC0 just figure out what the creature would need to roll (using only it's base to hit score) to hit an armor class of 20 (in 3e, which is close to 0 in 1e or 2e...kind of). That should at least give you a decent idea of what THAC0 you should give your version. 2- Stats are simple, use the int, dex, and str stats to figure out how tough your creature should be in terms of hit points, armor class, and how smart it should be in terms of tactics. Everything else should fall into place and be a simple matter of writing up power descriptions that fit into your edition. You will also, of course, need to come up with ecology and habit sections if you want your monster to have that 1e and 2e feel. Best of luck to your conversions and happy gaming. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : OlafTheUnbathed Date : 05-23-04 11:01 AM Rizak, that avatar cracks me up after seeing your other ones elsewhere, in particular the animated one. ;) Vader, is it confirmed that the Wiz-Os are working up a conversions board or is this just best speculation? Either way, Wiz-Os: yes, please; it can't happen soon enough. I know sites like ENWorld have large libraries of OOP monsters, adventures, etc. converted to 3e. Does anyone have links or resources for work already accomplished in the other direction? Wasn't it diaglo who first came up with that "3.11" quip? ;) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : vader42xx Date : 05-23-04 11:13 AM Accoring to the WizO's it's confirmed but that's still up in the air. So we are told that it will happen but not when. So you have to decide if you believe that or not. I, personally, am going to give the benefit of the doubt until I see otherwise. So, according to what we know, yes it's confirmed. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : OlafTheUnbathed Date : 05-23-04 11:29 AM Thanks Mr. Vader! Putting up a new board on any BBS system is a matter of a few minutes' work. There can be complications if there are custom categories for various levels of admins and mods. I imagine, then, that the issues are probably policy and administration, vs. actual implementation. On topic: Rizak, I thought of something to be wary of when converting: the "size" mechanic looms large in 3.x, i.e., it changes the effectiveness of opponent creatures and the tactics required to defeat them. I remember seeing a post on another forum showing how the 3.x size mechanic lets 20 stirges take down a red dragon; impossible in any OOP edition. So, when converting, the challenge of some encounters may come out off-whack, up or down the scale. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : vader42xx Date : 05-23-04 02:42 PM No worries. And, yeah, the WizO's have said it's more a matter of getting some other more important (my words, not theirs) taken care of before they can get to it (also they cited staffing as an issue). So we'll just see what happens. And, as for the topic, that's a very good point. The size of a monster makes a bit more of a difference in 3e than it does in 2e so you may have to change the size of a particular creature. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : blackprinceofmuncie Date : 05-23-04 03:27 PM Another thing to take into account when converting backwards is the "touch attack/touch AC" mechanic of 3e. Some monsters that depend on touch attacks may need their base to hit score pumped up in AD&D in order to be a serious threat. Spells may need modification to cover this too. You can always rule that certain attacks ignore armor, but the AC system works so differently between the two systems (in AD&D you basically have armor + dex + everything else = AC whereas 3e has armor + dex + nat armor + deflection + cover + size + etc = AC and not everything "counts" vs certain types of attacks) that you may not be able to do a straight attack bonus to THACO conversion on some monsters. When it comes to spells, you may also want to consider dropping the save on some 3e spells. 3e seems to allow for a lot more saves than AD&D did. The spells may be more powerful or lower level to compensate. I've found for mid to high level spells, eliminating the saving throw and raising the spell level by 1 or 2 gives spells more of an AD&D "feel". -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : OlafTheUnbathed Date : 05-23-04 04:53 PM Good points, BPoM. Hey, another notion occured to me regarding conversion of encounters. Instead of twiddling the monsters, just use the AD&D monster of the same name, and then re-earmark the encounter's intended level, e.g., if a 3.x encounter is set up for 4 PCs of 3rd to 5th level, and the unmodified AD&D conversion is tougher, then throw the encounter at 4 PCs of 4th to 6th level. You're still going to have mechanics quirks like the stirge example. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : James McMurray Date : 05-23-04 05:09 PM I've found while converting OOP material to 3.x that power levels tend to stay pretty much the same for monsters. For example, two ghouls and a ghast appear as a minor encounter in an adventure for 4th level characters. When the encounter converts, it becomes EL 3, which is a minor encounter for a party of 4th level characters. I think the only time you'll need to majorly rework stats is if ou convert something from 3.x that is new to the current edition. In those rare cases, you may be better served just finding something similar in the huge amount of OOP material and using it instead. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : vader42xx Date : 05-23-04 05:11 PM I'm in the middle of converting an Eberron monster for my 2e Dark Sun campaign so I'll post that here when it's done to see if it sparks any ideas. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : Rizak the Really Horrible Date : 05-23-04 06:26 PM Originally posted by OlafTheUnbathed Wasn't it diaglo who first came up with that "3.11" quip? ;) So? I'm a thief. But never a rogue ... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : Incenjucar Date : 05-23-04 07:57 PM Perhaps, Rizak, you could ask the consent of those here (And Paradox, mayhaps) to allow you to start a thread here, while we wait for the mixed editions board, for conversions? I myself would be more than happy to help people convert 3e to 2e, and other posters here have used 1e and would, likely, be willing to do similar. Then, when the new board is up, it can just be shunted there, and can be the first applicable post. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : Falstaff the Fighter Date : 05-24-04 12:11 AM Have you tried finding a copy of the 2e to 3e conversion manual that WOTC put out a few years back? It was available for free on the site (And may still be.) as a PDF. There was also a 1e to 2e conversion book (I didn't think it existed, but I seen one on E-bay.), but it is really rare. If you could fine both, you just reverse engineer the changes, like retrofitting the chracters, and then clean up any rough edges left (Of which there would no doubt be some.). Converting monsters may be more of a problem. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:20 AM.