* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : XP for Role-playing Started at 06-03-07 06:10 AM by True_Atlantean Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=858857 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : True_Atlantean Date : 06-03-07 06:10 AM Thread Title : XP for Role-playing Hey guys, Just had a quick question as I'm running a role-playing heavy game with dungeon crawls thrown in. However, I'm just using a gut-feeling as to what sort of amounts of xp are given out for social encounters, but I was wondering if anyone had a defined rule of thumb. My argument is that an angry courtier with the king's ear is just as dangerous as the ogre, just in a different way. However, as D&D is primarily geared towards a combat game, I can't find xp for social interaction. Any ideas? Thanks for the help. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Fulnitus Date : 06-03-07 08:22 AM Thread Title : Re: XP for Role-playing Difficult, I also generally wing it. I do use some broad guidelines for myself though. I always keep track of a sort of 'maximum'number of XP in a given adventure: just like calculating a combat encounter XP. In my case, avoiding combat through reason can yield XP up to the encounter worth. In political/interaction situations I base XP on difficulty of the task, a challenge level if you will. Then, depending on how well players stay in character, achieved results etc. they can earn up to 100% of this worth. If they really surprise me they may even get more. I tend to create all my adventures with a set total of XP per 5-hour adventure, long-term plot XP aside. The level of XP rises a little with level advancement, to keep track with increased encounter levels. This basically leaves me with comparable XP levels for combat-heavy and story driven adventures, all need to amount to the same overall XP level. In turn, this provides me with an indication of the potential value of single encounters and actions. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : atlarman Date : 06-03-07 06:58 PM Thread Title : Re: XP for Role-playing In my opinion,when it comes 2 giving xp 4 RP,its best to awrd a base amout 4 ALL who participate in the given encounter,then add or deduct a set amount based on factors such as,imagination/inventiveness did the input from the pc help move the plot or perhaps give new possiblities? did they add 2 overall fun/and flavor of the game? if you set aside say + or- 50 xp each for these factors,then asking and answering the above questions become a stight foreword fair way of awarding this type of xp(which should of course be on top of any xp from combat or achieving a campign/chacter goal!!) don't be afraid to adjust this when a player does something exceptionally well(or poorly) and take them aside later and let them know way you made those changes...constructive feedback from your DM is ALWAYS a good thing!(and it's USUALLY appreciated by players,inthe long run!):) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : True_Atlantean Date : 06-04-07 06:40 AM Thread Title : Re: XP for Role-playing Thanks for the info, guys. A little reinforcement that you are doing the right thing never goes astray. I do agree with your points, and I do reward players, especially if they manage to surprise me or create a fun session. One xp award that I applaud came from the old WEG Star Wars game, where you answered a lit of questions to get your xp at the end of the adventure. Such queries included "Was the adventure a success?", "Did everyone play their characters well?" and my personal favourite - "Did everyone (including the Gamemaster) have fun?" and there is a decent xp award next to it. Thanks for the assist again. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Dwarven Godfather Date : 06-06-07 12:03 AM Thread Title : Re: XP for Role-playing In the Revised 2nd ed. DM guide is a list under awarding Experience points in which is a general list of optional XP awarded and they did have a listing for Role-playing your character at 200 xp per session I think. Now I have also played in a campaign along time ago in which the DM is big into Role-playing and based your Experience off of everything from clever ideas to role-playing and went down his list that he had tallied for everyone. Which if you had a really good play session you could ossibly earn 500- 1000 xp before combat XP I think it was very high in XP since we did have Human, demihumans and other types of characters in the group as well like Liches and Pin-heads in our group. I sure hope this helps. I say it's your game and as long as you judge evenly and the players are happy then award them what you deem as what they deserve. sometimes it does give new players who are new to the game kind of an award and something to shot for in their characters. We had personalities, voices, drawings and the works that were factors in the game along with individual role-play sessions which everyone had the same options. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Varl Date : 06-06-07 10:43 AM Thread Title : Re: XP for Role-playing My guideline for roleplaying XPs has always been +100 XPs per level per original, well thought out commentary that makes everyone remember it, laugh, or gives everyone playing a closer insight into that character's soul. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Shiftkitty Date : 06-06-07 04:00 PM Thread Title : Re: XP for Role-playing Story xp is hard to judge, so I try to base it on "What if it was a combat encounter?" I try to imagine each encounter as an excercise in conflict resolution. Could you talk your way through it? If not, could you hack way through it? (And all steps in between, like disarming traps, finding hidden things, etc.) You don't necessarilt get you xps for killing things so much as you do for resolving things by whatever means you choose. Of course, the more inventive the resolution... how would you award this? They rescued the king's daughter, but she was a whining, harping, spoiled little brat. The idea was that her incessant nagging would draw the attention of monsters. Gags didn't stop her from making noise, and the spellcasters had no spells inducing silence left. I kept up the nagging and whining until the fighter turned to the princess and threatened to "remove the part that was making the noise" if she didn't shut up. I (and the princess) didn't believe him. I nagged one more time, and CHOPPITY-CHOP! Off came her head! They restored her head and resurrected her right before taking her to her father, then hypnotised her to think the event never happened. They got their reward and cut for the hills. I gave them full xp plus another 50% bonus for creativity. I hope I wasn't too stingy, because I'm terrible at estimating bonus xp. Everyone stayed with character and alignment The fighter was CN, and the LG cleric had to be forcibly coerced into not resurrecting her right then and there, and as well I pushed every nagging, whining, pain-in-the-butt, spolied little brat button I could find. The NE rogue wanted to just throw the body in through a window with a bill attached for services rendered. After all, the king didn't specify to return her alive. The TN wizard offered to animate her corpse just long enough for them to get paid and leave. Of course, the cleric would have NONE of that! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : AlorinDawn Date : 06-06-07 07:51 PM Thread Title : Re: XP for Role-playing The DM rates the roleplaying of the each player 0 - 4. 0 gets no additional xp, 1 gets 25 xp/level, 4 gets 100 xp/level. Very nice motivater once those not all that motivated see the roleplayers of the group gain a level a session or two ahead of the curve due to exellent roleplaying efforts. The bonus has worked well for us. The one bit of advice I will give is be consistant. If you use RP xp bonuses be consistant with them and your award levels. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : True_Atlantean Date : 06-07-07 05:40 AM Thread Title : Re: XP for Role-playing The DM rates the roleplaying of the each player 0 - 4. 0 gets no additional xp, 1 gets 25 xp/level, 4 gets 100 xp/level. Very nice motivater once those not all that motivated see the roleplayers of the group gain a level a session or two ahead of the curve due to exellent roleplaying efforts. The bonus has worked well for us. The one bit of advice I will give is be consistant. If you use RP xp bonuses be consistant with them and your award levels. I really like this system. I have run, in the past, a short reflection at the end of each game where each player had to give another player recognition for smething neat they did that session. Basically, the party would then come to a consensus as to the 'coolest' piece of RP for the session. That player recieved a card entitling them to one free re-roll in the next session. Didn't set me back anything to give out and it was actually a coveted prize. The good thing as well was that my group was mature enough to take the exercise at face value - there was no conniving or out-of-game politics attached to the reflection - just an honest desire to have fun. I definately agree with the concept of keeping all things consistant, hence my craving for formulae to apply. My usual preference for most things in RPGs is to go with my gut; story first; rules second, but with something ike xp, I feel the need to be accountable. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : dndgameupdate1 Date : 06-16-07 12:36 AM Thread Title : Re: XP for Role-playing My way is not for everyone, but I give 1000-2000 xp for showing up, then maybe another 1 to 2 thousand for good role playing (IMO), and really no extra xp for killing or treasure because I don't want characters biased towards doing those things just for xp. Once a CHARACTER reaches ninth level, I double all amounts. This means basically it takes a good long while to level up but considering I've had the same group for years it works well for us. I also give extra xp for written stories, artwork of characters, painted minatures, and extra game related stuff. I've found to get more role playing out of the players you increase the xp for roleplaying and decrease the xp for killing and treasure. Now if the killing and greed is in their character's nature, then it's good roleplaying and that earns more xp. We favor good alignments. YMMV -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : sgt_d Date : 06-16-07 09:46 AM Thread Title : Re: XP for Role-playing My way is not for everyone, but I give 1000-2000 xp for showing up, then maybe another 1 to 2 thousand for good role playing (IMO), and really no extra xp for killing or treasure because I don't want characters biased towards doing those things just for xp. Once a CHARACTER reaches ninth level, I double all amounts. This means basically it takes a good long while to level up but considering I've had the same group for years it works well for us. I also give extra xp for written stories, artwork of characters, painted minatures, and extra game related stuff. I've found to get more role playing out of the players you increase the xp for roleplaying and decrease the xp for killing and treasure. Now if the killing and greed is in their character's nature, then it's good roleplaying and that earns more xp. We favor good alignments. YMMV While I would add *some* XP for combat, I think you have a good idea going here! I also add in bonuses for when a particular player finds a way outside of the norm to solve a problem, or figures something out (without meta-gaming) before they normally would. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : Shiftkitty Date : 06-16-07 12:46 PM Thread Title : Re: XP for Role-playing I had a crafty player avoid being toasted by a very annoyed Huge red dragon. He was the last surviving party member and was trying to get out so he could get the party resurrected. I was going for a TPK (one of the few times I've done so). He stumbled into a red dragon's treasure room in a quite noisy fashion. The dragon awoke and was ready to fry this guy when the player started begging pitifully for his life while slathering on the flattery good and thick. Dragons being suckers for such things, told the PC to entertain him. Of course, the dragon had no intention of doing anything other than getting a bit of amusement before having a snack. The PC asked "You want to see a trick?" To avoid metagaming, I had the dragon detect magic (spellcasters in our campaign emit a faint magic aura) to make sure the character, a rogue with no magic abilities, wasn't planning on simply teleporting out. Detecting no magic, the dragon agreed. The rogue then took out the map the party had been using, a large thing on a tough, leathery material, walked to the top of the nearest tall pile of gold, and spread the map onto the gold. He then sat down on it a la a flying carpet. (I double-checked my notes at that time to make sure I hadn't given the map any special properties.) Then he turned to the dragon, waved and said "Ta-daaaahhhh!" And slid down the gold pile like he was on a toboggan, right out the door to the room and into the hall beyond. I was annoyed because I had wanted to destroy this party (can't remember why), and I was going to have the dragon send a good blast down the hallway. But then my sense of fairness kicked in. I had to admit it was a clever ploy, so I had the dragon back in his room staring at the pile where his snack had been, a thin tendril of smoke emanating from his nostrils. He then said "I don't get it..." I had to give a generous bonus to the XPs for that one. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : Sylban_Quin Date : 06-17-07 04:30 AM Thread Title : Re: XP for Role-playing If my players can use good roleplaying to avoid an armed conflict (combat), they get the exp they would have obtained for that combat, plus up to half of that again as a bonus. If it is an encounter with the local duke (and combat is unlikely), consider the relative level of the duke, or the difficulty of the task. And remember, rewards don't always have to be experience. A rise in fame, a title, or the gift of a weapon or magical item are good examples of roleplaying awards. (In the case of magic item gifts, most magical items have an experience listed, you can use this to your advantage). I always give my experience in two phases- Group based on encounters -both combat and roleplayed) divided evenly amongst the group and subject to a player's 10% bonus for high prime requisite (2nd Ed); and Individual, based on personal contributions to the game, use of class abilities (spells, use of special abilities), and encounters (both combat and roleplayed) dealt with alone. This set is not subject to a player's 10% bonus- just getting the award is award enough. I agree with the above, tho- consistency is key. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : Erpegis Date : 06-20-07 01:59 PM Thread Title : Re: XP for Role-playing I'd say NO to Roleplaying XP. "Why, oh why" you will shout, "this is supposed to be roleplaying games, you heretic!". But the reason is simple - roleplaying XP simply isn't fair. Why would a fighter become better in swinging his sword if a player acted like a fighter? Why would a sorcerer earn bonus spells when a player rescued a kitty from a well? Consider that I play a paladin, who is gruff, aloof, and generally rude, but genuinely brave and good - for one gaming session, and on the next one he's suddenly crystal clear and fanatic warrior. Would I get bonus XP? What if I hadn't notified the DM that my character concept has changed? What if I had? It's mine character, and I should be able to determine his personality without some silly carrot and stick scheme. Where do RP awards end, exactly? Would you get bonus XP for being nice to another players? So, wouldn't that imply that without XP we'd be constantly bickering? Would bringing snacks to a game give bonus XP? Besides, it's not acting. It's a game, a way of entertainment, not much different from Monopoly or chess. You don't have to be an actor to play RPG, The awards for good roleplaying should stay purely in-game: more generous awards, more respect from citizenry, titles and honors - or fear and terror for the evil characters. Note: I do award XP for completing the challenges - regardless whether you talked the ogre into giving you all his treasures, beaten him up, or hired a wizard who turned him into stone - you have completed the challenge, and therefore you earned the XP. Furthermore, I give out XP awards - for the young and inexperienced players, simply to interest them in something more than hack-and-slash. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : Shiftkitty Date : 06-20-07 03:27 PM Thread Title : Re: XP for Role-playing It's always been my understanding that RPXP isn't supposed to be enough to kick you into a new level. It's more just an award to the players to get them closer to that next level and to encourage deeper involvement. Instead of some guy in a Korn t-shirt mumbling "My fighter attacks the gnoll", you get the player screwing his face into homicidal glee, miming the drawing of a sword and shouting "EAT HOT STEEL, FLEABAG!" In a non-combat encounter, you can either have "I use my Charisma on the barmaid", or you can see your best friend use his cheesiest come-on line (Hey, babe, wanna slay my dragon?) in an attempt to pick up an imaginary chick. I was in a Marvel Superheroes game where my female hero, who was sketched by another player and clad in a very tight thing with a low neckline and a high hemline, spent the bulk of the adventure simultaneously pulling up her top and pulling down the hem of her skirt. I mimed it all evening and got a couple of hundred xps. Not enough to advance a level, but enough to encourage acting the part. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Author : Varl Date : 06-20-07 04:00 PM Thread Title : Re: XP for Role-playing Note: I do award XP for completing the challenges - regardless whether you talked the ogre into giving you all his treasures, beaten him up, or hired a wizard who turned him into stone - you have completed the challenge, and therefore you earned the XP. Talking the ogre into giving you all his treasures is roleplaying, and if someone can convince an ogre to give away all his treasure (i.e. convincing the DM playing the ogre), he's more than earned extra roleplaying XPs IMO. The rewarding of XPs for roleplaying is just as integral to the character as pulling one's sword or hiring a mage to do your dirty work. In fact, roleplaying out the hiring of the mage is worthy of gaining roleplay XPs, particularly if the mage isn't interested in helping you or thinks wasting his magic on one measly ogre would be a waste of his time and talents. You somehow still manage to convince him to do it anyway, I think that player has earned XPs, because not only will the mage be impressed, I'll (as DM) be impressed. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 17] Author : True_Atlantean Date : 06-28-07 08:01 AM Thread Title : Re: XP for Role-playing I'd say NO to Roleplaying XP. Where do RP awards end, exactly? Would you get bonus XP for being nice to another players? So, wouldn't that imply that without XP we'd be constantly bickering? Would bringing snacks to a game give bonus XP? Besides, it's not acting. It's a game, a way of entertainment, not much different from Monopoly or chess. You don't have to be an actor to play RPG, The awards for good roleplaying should stay purely in-game: more generous awards, more respect from citizenry, titles and honors - or fear and terror for the evil characters. I advocate a middle path - yes there should be rewards which build the characters place in the world; such as inclusion in secret societies, knighthoods and the like; the bestwoing of honours/titles/awards and even gifting them land/right to tax/temples/ranks in organisations and the list can go on. All these things deepen the overall description of the world, increase the character's standing in it and can link them to NPC's and communities - all of which begets more good roleplaying. As D&D is a level-based system (the only level-based system I play or run) and xp is the way you increase your character. It depends on whether you see the advancement of your character as a character as linked to the actual stats/abilities/skills package that essentially makes the D&D character. It really comes down to playing styles. I have run entire sessions where dice aren't touched, where back-story is developed and good role-playing is the order of the evening. Yes, there will be personal goals met (nothing feels so good as to give that courtier his come-uppance) and perhaps some in-game winnings but part of the game is the accumulation of xp, and this should be reflected in the rewards for all activities. Otherwise, by my way of thinking, you may as well be playing a video-game where you can advance with no roleplaying at all. I have lost some players to WoW, and every session I ask myself how I can present a session that will offer something different to what can be gained with high-speed internet access. My players have expressed that the role-playing element is what brings them back to the table, leaving their computers idle at home. But as I said, individual play styles are completely different. No way is essentially better than the other - there is no such thing as bad fun. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 18] Author : Shiftkitty Date : 06-28-07 09:43 AM Thread Title : Re: XP for Role-playing I don;t knock anybody for NOT getting massively into it, like my above example, but as the whole party enjoyts that sort of thing, and as it encourages me to keep going as a DM and not just the chick who makes the snacks and tells the party what's going on, it's kind of a symbiotic relationship. I wasn't sure how many points to give my mother, though. We were having a session around the card table in the basement and I had built up the suspense really well. They were about to encounter the most vile, evil thing they had encountered to date and they were all on the edge of their seats. As I described them opening the door to the ancient crypt, I told them something like "Amidst the cold silence you hear..." At that moment, my mother burst through the basement door, making everybody jump, and called out "Who wants cupcakes?" I was about to describe the clattering of bones, the rasping breath, and other things to let them know that they were too late, that it had arisen. Instead, everybody mimed sheathing their swords and saying things like "Well, that's one mighty friendly crypt critter!" Ah, 200xp for comical motherly timing. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 19] Author : shadzar Date : 07-05-07 02:47 AM Thread Title : Re: XP for Role-playing typically as crazy as it may seem i award roleplaying XP for player growth rather than character growth. how well they are playing their character. how much they contribute to the efforts of the party, or against the party as the case may be sometimes. pretty much to how much they do in the game. to prevent loud people from trying to get the most XP i don't tell them where the XP is coming from, and always try to limit time to each player so that each can say what if anything they wish to do. even those that do nothing may be getting XP for doing it at the correct times: observing other players, npc; taking notes IC/OOC for the party, etc depending upon their position in the party. don't forget that XP in the MM is based on defeating the "monster". this doesn't not mean fatally wounding it, but overcoming it as an obstacle. this can be done with fear, coercion, or even teaching it a new way of thinking. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:23 AM.