Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jul 14, 2003 9:46:54	What do ya think? I mean, sure, he's a god, and he's evil, but is he realy a god of evil? Does he encourage his followers to go out and do evil things? Should he? From a literary stand point? How about from a gameing perspective? I prefer to think of him not being concerned with things such as "good" and "evil" but more like the Faerunian dieties, where he has a responsability to oversee the traits of Honor, Revenge, Volcanoes, and such. Just thought I would try to provoke some intelegent discusion =)
#2 cam_banks Jul 14, 2003 9:55:12	Sargonnas' acts and those which he inspires his followers to carry out do meet the requirements for Evil in the Dragonlance setting. He's definitely a god of anger, vengeance, and fury. But it's a pre-meditated sort of anger and fury, since he spends a lot of time thinking about things that make him mad. Sargonnas is a very interesting deity and should be considered for his merits as a story element beyond simply being the God of Minotaurs. I think the minotaurs associate a few traits with him that he doesn't really aspire to, even - it's not as if he's an honorable god. Lawful, yes. The soul of honor and nobility, definitely not. Cheers, Cam
#3 Dragonhelm Jul 14, 2003 10:12:17	Originally posted by Cam Banks Sargonnas' acts and those which he inspires his followers to carry out do meet the requirements for Evil in the Dragonlance setting. He's definitely a god of anger, vengeance, and fury. But it's a pre-meditated sort of anger and fury, since he spends a lot of time thinking about things that make him mad. Sargonnas is a very interesting deity and should be considered for his merits as a story element beyond simply being the God of Minotaurs. I think the minotaurs associate a few traits with him that he doesn't really aspire to, even - it's not as if he's an honorable god. Lawful, yes. The soul of honor and nobility, definitely not. Cheers, Cam I have to disagree with you on the honor issue, Cam. Sargonnas is most definitely honorable, although it isn't the same type of honor that you would associate with any of the knighthoods. You see this at the end of Vanished Moon when he is addressing Galdar. Yes, he nearly does Galdar in for refusing his gift of the returned arm, but he pays honor to Galdar for the choice. Galdar finds strength outside of the use of his arm, and wishes to serve Sargas as he is. I do agree with you, though, on a number of other issues. Sargonnas is most definitely an evil god. He's not into lies, deceipt, and treachery so much, but he is into vengeance, wrath, and conquest. Fire and fury are also part of his "portfolio". I also agree that Sargonnas is more than the "God of Minotaurs". Anger and vengeance stir in the hearts of all mortals. I'm sure that you could see his works within the hearts of elves, dwarves, ogres, humans, etc. etc.
#4 zombiegleemax Jul 14, 2003 10:15:05	Who said anything about nobility? ;) Honor as in Lawfull Keep your word honor, not honor as in I salute you before I attack honor. =P
#5 cam_banks Jul 14, 2003 10:17:03	Originally posted by Dragonhelm You see this at the end of Vanished Moon when he is addressing Galdar. Yes, he nearly does Galdar in for refusing his gift of the returned arm, but he pays honor to Galdar for the choice. Galdar finds strength outside of the use of his arm, and wishes to serve Sargas as he is. I think of this as Sargonnas being impressed with Galdar's show of strength and resolve, which is something Sargonnas values highly. I don't know that I would call it honor, since being impressed that one of your own subjects has the stones to suck it up and accept the loss of an arm rather than be weak and need it replaced comes closer to pride. Honor does need to be defined a little more clearly in the setting, I think, or it stands a good chance of just being too broad to carry any real meaning. Cheers, Cam
#6 Dragonhelm Jul 14, 2003 10:42:26	Originally posted by Cam Banks I think of this as Sargonnas being impressed with Galdar's show of strength and resolve, which is something Sargonnas values highly. I don't know that I would call it honor, since being impressed that one of your own subjects has the stones to suck it up and accept the loss of an arm rather than be weak and need it replaced comes closer to pride. Honor does need to be defined a little more clearly in the setting, I think, or it stands a good chance of just being too broad to carry any real meaning. Cheers, Cam I think the tendency is to think of knights and minotaurs with honor. You can also find this trait in elves, dwarves, gnomes, kender, and I would even go so far as to say gully dwarves. Not every member of these races has honor, but at least some do. Certainly, honor could use more defining.
#7 zombiegleemax Jul 14, 2003 11:50:16	Originally posted by Dragonhelm Certainly, honor could use more defining. What? You mean the 37 volumes of the Measure do not define it enough for ya? ;)
#8 Dragonhelm Jul 14, 2003 12:29:41	Originally posted by Richard Connery What? You mean the 37 volumes of the Measure do not define it enough for ya? ;) Lol! Ah, but that defines the KoS' vision of honor. What of the honor of other races, organizations, etc.? ;)
#9 lugnut71 Jul 14, 2003 12:44:58	What gully dwarves have nothing but honer!