Now don't get me wrong, I think that Post-WotL Ansalon was the shining point in Krynn's history, and that the potential for adventure there was nearly limitless. However, I also believe that Dragonlance did not recieve the amount and quality of support it needed to keep it alive as a viable setting. Another poster compared the quality (not quantity) of Forgotten Realms products to Dragonlance products: there is no comparison...the depth, quality, and quantity of information in the FR products leaves the DL products looking like a red headed stepchild.
Another contribution to the stagnation of the 4th Age was TSR's obsession with the Heroes of the Lance. Before I stopped reading DL novels (the last I read was the Verminaard one I believe) it seemed like a prerequisite to publish a DL novel was that it had to involve either a Hero of the Lance, one of their enemies, one of their children, or someone who had somehow been touched or affected by them. A little new blood would have gone a long way in revitalizing the world. Did the companions just need to fall off the map? No, but they also did not need to be involved in every single crisis faced. (Another problem with the novels were that many of them seemed to focus on pre-WotL Ansalon...thats all well and good for a rich history, but it does nothing for putting life into the here and now of a setting).
I don't read Forgotten Realms novels, but some of my friends do, and I guess there is a series of books (Harpers?) that the only theme tying these books together is that its all about one organization. That kind of series of books could have been gold for the 4th Age. Maybe a series about the post-WotL Knighthood, each with different characters, each with different conflicts and adventures and adversaries, and most especially, each WITHOUT any of the Heroes of the Lance.
This is not about 4th Age vs 5th Age. 5th Age is here to stay, and while I'm not a fan of it, I'm also not going to waste my breath complaining about "why did they do this to MY Dragonlance."
If you agree with me, what other factors do you see as contributing to the stagnation of the setting?
If you disagree with me, what do you think I have wrong? Were there quality suppliments or novels that I'm not taking into consideration?
As always, I apologize if this topic has been done to death, I am fairly new to these forums and I did not see anything relating to this...
Originally posted by JQPublic
Another contribution to the stagnation of the 4th Age was TSR's obsession with the Heroes of the Lance. Before I stopped reading DL novels (the last I read was the Verminaard one I believe) it seemed like a prerequisite to publish a DL novel was that it had to involve either a Hero of the Lance, one of their enemies, one of their children, or someone who had somehow been touched or affected by them. A little new blood would have gone a long way in revitalizing the world. Did the companions just need to fall off the map? No, but they also did not need to be involved in every single crisis faced. (Another problem with the novels were that many of them seemed to focus on pre-WotL Ansalon...thats all well and good for a rich history, but it does nothing for putting life into the here and now of a setting).
I agree here. I like reading about the heroes and other characters that we have met through the Chronicles, but you are correct that TSR overdid it.
I also found that most of the preludes novels were badly written, and often with just bizarre premises (IIRC one of them sends Kitiara and Sturm to one of the moons!). I would have prefered the novels to have followed an FR style and format, in that they deal with different groups performing different quests all with a Dragonlance style.
I don't read Forgotten Realms novels, but some of my friends do, and I guess there is a series of books (Harpers?) that the only theme tying these books together is that its all about one organization.
A better series would be one where each book focused on a different organization. Sort of like The Lost Histories did with races.
Originally posted by JQPublic
Instead of taking up more space in the Future of Krynn thread, I thought I would respond to a couple of posts there that said that the 4th Age was NOT stagnant and stale in a new thread.
Okay...I didn't understand your post at all.
Your whole post is basically my whole argument for why the 4th Age had stagnated and why the 4th Age had become stale.
As I stated in the other thread, I agree with you that the setting had become stale and that something needed to be done...I think the only place we differ is where we stand on what was done to breathe life back into the setting.
There were other posts in the Future of Krynn thread from my fellow 4th Agers that claimed that the post-WotL setting was not stale, and it was to them that I was primarily targeting with this thread.
Originally posted by jonesy
A better series would be one where each book focused on a different organization. Sort of like The Lost Histories did with races.
That would have been great too...maybe even opening the possibility of introducing new organizations that were never mentioned in the Chronicles/Legends. A book on thieves guilds would be great...non-kender thieves always seemed to be left out of Dragonlance.
Originally posted by JQPublic
I don't read Forgotten Realms novels, but some of my friends do, and I guess there is a series of books (Harpers?) that the only theme tying these books together is that its all about one organization.
Hey there, everyone. I'm a former FR fan, about to convert to DL when the DLCS comes out. Yes, I have seen the light, and it is good. ;)
Anyway, here are my thoughts on the Harper-esque series idea.
There were two problems with the Harper series:
1. Varying quality of work. Most of the novels were average and forgettible. A few were great (Elfshadow), and some were poke-out-your-eyes-with-a-pencil horrible (The Night Parade). While this can be expected for any series, because there was a different author for each book, the series had an overall feeling of schizophrenia.
2. A lack of direction/continuity. While you're right that there was the common thread of the Harper organization in each book, in many cases it was hardly mentioned. In FR, the Harpers are an in-the-shadows good guy organization. They're primarily covert, so there's not a lot of interaction with the group in the novels. I'm not exagerrating when I say the only Harper reference in some of the books came only with a mention that the main character wore a Harper pin. That detail aside, the books suffered because there was not much (if any) connection between them. The series was really just a bunch of stand alone stories, many of which weren't interesting because there wasn't enough time or space to flesh out the ideas in their entirety.
While I like the series idea you have, I'm not sure that the old company could've pulled it off. I'm not sure if the DL authors continue to write for the 4th Age, but if they do, then there may be the possibility of something like that coming to fruition. I think it all depends on what the authors are writing about, too. If we're talking groups, like the Knights of Solamnia or Wizards of High Sorcery, then I can see one book focused on them. However, if we're talking normal characters and their stories, then I prefer trilogies. They just seem to be naturally fitted for that kind of thing, as each book can represent a part of the cycle of a story (build up, conflict(s), climax and resolution).
IMO the 4th Age isn't stagnated. The marketing scheme based on the notion that the entire universe has to revolve around the HotL is stagnated. Frankly, the HotL have been done to death. Let them rest in peace.
There is a whole world out there during the 4th Age. The WotL was going on for YEARS before the HotL became involved. The dragonarmies had conquered most of north-east Ansalon, destroyed Silvanesti (sp), etc before the Heroes got involved. There are entire countries that the Heroes never visit. There are enemies that the Heroes never encounter. Wars that the Heroes never fought in. And those wars made heroes of their own.
In my opinion, the fact that the 4th Age was never exploited to it's full potential (again to my limited knowledge) leaves tons of room for creative license. Krynn does not revolve around the Heroes of the Lance.
My campaign is set in the Barony of Langtree in the Spring before Autumn Twilight. A sub-wing of the Black Dragon Army attacks Langtree, effectively cutting it off from the outside world. I hope that the PCs join up with the Baron, but they could side with the Dragon Army. That would be interesting. No matter which side the PCs take the war could swing either way.
Again, I don't see the problem as being with the 4th Age. The problem is with the amount of material revolving around the Heroes of the Lance. In the WotL supplement, I want basic info about the world, the major powers, and a timeline that tries to make some sense of the mess. I don't want to know what the HotL had for breakfast every day.
The main reason I've seen for non-DL fans hating the setting is that everything important has already been done by the HotL. That's simply not the case. The HotL did kill the major bad guys, they did save the world. But there was a lot of other stuff going on in the world. These non-DL fans can't seem to figure that out. I want the WotL supplement to be less about the HotL and more about what other stuff was happening. WITHOUT really saying how that other stuff was resolved.
-Krys
Originally posted by JQPublic
You're confused because we share the same viewpoint? :D
Yeah...that would be where I'm confused at.
LOL!
Yeah...I completely missread that first comment. I thought...well, it doesn't matter what I thought. Anyway, yes, we do agree...and the reason your argument is good for...
Ah...forget it. I can't think straight right now anyway.
