* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : Castles and crusades Started at 06-20-07 08:54 AM by mysticpot31 Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=870503 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : mysticpot31 Date : 06-20-07 08:54 AM Thread Title : Castles and crusades Hi...I was wondering who owns the Castles and Crusades role playing system and is it any good. Is it how 3rd edition should of been and does it give you the best of both worlds? What races are available to play and classes? I don't have the ability to peruse through a book as there is no copies I can get without ordering one. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : RobertFisher Date : 06-20-07 10:19 AM Thread Title : Re: Castles and crusades C&C is owned by Troll Lord Games. This is hard to answer. For some people C&C is everything you say. For others, it isn't. Races: I believe it is the same as (pre-UA) first edition AD&D. i.e. Human, elf, dwarf, gnome, halfling, half-elf, & half-orc. Classes: Cleric, druid, fighter, paladin, ranger, barbarian, knight, wizard, illusionist, rogue, bard, assassin, & monk. (If I remember correctly.) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : tankschmidt Date : 06-20-07 11:14 AM Thread Title : Re: Castles and crusades It's only the coolest game of all time! You get 1st edition feel, a simplified mechanic, and no class/race restrictions, demihuman level limits, cumbersome saving throws, etc. I'm not sure if we are allowed to talk about other games like this, but the forums at www.trolllord.com should answer most of your questions. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : DrowBattlemind Date : 06-20-07 05:06 PM Thread Title : Re: Castles and crusades It's only the coolest game of all time! You get 1st edition feel, a simplified mechanic, and no class/race restrictions, demihuman level limits, cumbersome saving throws, etc. I'm not sure if we are allowed to talk about other games like this, but the forums at www.trolllord.com should answer most of your questions. For you, perhaps. Any RPG is going to appeal to a niche crowd, and C&C seems to appeal most to those who just cant get over A) the loss of 1st Ed AD&D and B) 3.0 & 3.5's Feats mechanics (which C&C lacks). 1st Ed AD&D had faults. It had flaws. It also had a cool world-setting, as well as the Barbarian*, the Half-Orc, Psionics, and Drow PC's*, all things 2nd Ed AD&D removed until just before they folded TSR and WotC introduced 3rd Ed D&D. (*: introduced in the original Unearthed Arcana) IMHO, 3rd Ed & 3.5 corrected many of those faults, and the Feats mechanic is a fun way of customizing your character. Can it be used and abused for Munchkinism? Yes, but so can any game system. Personally, I feel C&C is just D20, stripped of Feats, with an over-complicated Save mechanic (six saves instead of 3). But if you like it, go ahead. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : rigon Date : 06-21-07 07:38 PM Thread Title : Re: Castles and crusades The sig says it all. R- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : rigon Date : 06-21-07 07:59 PM Thread Title : Re: Castles and crusades Hi...I was wondering who owns the Castles and Crusades role playing system Troll Lord Games (http://www.trolllord.com/newsite/) and is it any good. Only if you, as a gamemaster, like to control your game instead of a bunch of rules scattered over a bajillion books. Is it how 3rd edition should of been Just check the sig. ;) and does it give you the best of both worlds? If you are talking about old school feel and new school mechanics, then definately yes. What races are available to play There are 7 races: Human, Half-elf, Half-orc, Halfling, Elf, Dwarf, and Gnome. and classes? There are 13 classes: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Assassin, Barbarian, Monk, Wizard, Illusionist, Cleric, Druid, Knight, Paladin, and Bard. Of the 13 classes, only 4 are spell casting classes (Wizard, Illusionist, Cleric, and Druid). I don't have the ability to peruse through a book as there is no copies I can get without ordering one. For around $13 US, you can get the C&C Condensed Book (http://www.trolllord.com/newsite/cnc/80102B.html) R- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : genius_robby Date : 06-21-07 08:38 PM Thread Title : Re: Castles and crusades Hi...I was wondering who owns the Castles and Crusades role playing system and is it any good. Is it how 3rd edition should of been and does it give you the best of both worlds? What races are available to play and classes? I don't have the ability to peruse through a book as there is no copies I can get without ordering one. I like it. It appeals to the old school gamer in me. I'm not a big fan of 3x. It actually brought me back into gaming, after a hiatus of almost a decade. I wanted to like it, and we played it for a few years, but it just not the game for me (or most of my group). We didn't like its over-complication of things and highly granular nature, combat was slow and a chore, and the bookkeeping and prep sides of being a DM was just too much. (Note: some people like it, and thats great. They should keep playing.) After playing it for a few years, my group switched to playing Savage Worlds (a very fine system, designed to be Fast Fun Furious), and we've enjoyed that. But as good as SW is, it just doesn't have that ... D&D feeling to it. C&C does, but its also much simpler than 3x. And it retains the old school 1E feeling, without (as someone alluded to earlier) all of the warts of 1E. Looks like folks have given you the low down on the races and classes. Its got a good selection of spells as well, and fairly simple mechanics. One of the really nice things about C&C is that you can pretty much use any edition of D&D stuff with it with minimal (and I do mean minimal) conversion (usually just AC, sometimes HD). B/X, 1E, 2E and 3x books and modules all fit in nicely. I'm about to run a campaign in the Wilderlands (3x Judges Guild version) with a bunch of DCC (3x) modules and a slew of 1E modules, and include spells from the 2x Wizards Compendiums. How cool is that? :) Also, its a simple enough system that you can add things in pretty easily without affecting the game. (I could not say the same, in reverse, for 3x, which is too bad - too many things were interdependent to remove layers of complexity successfully.) For example, I'm going to add a basic version of SW's Hindrances (and some Advantages) into the game for character creation, as well as some Action Points/Bennies (basically the same thing), plus the Paizo Critical Hit Deck. If that at all interests you, I'd go check out the Troll Lords Game site (as people have linked above). You can find the PHB - the only book you really need, especially if you have any of the various D&D Monster Manuals (any editions) - on Amazon for pretty cheap, like $15 I think. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : Rhuvein Date : 06-21-07 10:09 PM Thread Title : Re: Castles and crusades Hello. I own and support this game. Easy to learn, run and teach your players. Powerful SEIGE mechanic resolves situations with relative ease. Read, roll and role play ~ done. Fast setup and game setup. The DM gets to concentrate and have fun with his campaign world and not spend hours prepping for combat. Enjoy the game. :teach: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : Cennedi Date : 06-22-07 06:36 AM Thread Title : Re: Castles and crusades C&C is a good game. I cant say it is the game for you and your group but if you are looking for a less complex system that allows for fast and furious combat and is a breeze to run and set up adventures for C&C may be your game. As an example I am currently running a campaign set in the world of Greyhawk and specifically in Keoland. I have been able to use B1 in search of adventure and B2 keep on the borderland with only the modification of monster AC which I do on the fly. Having a system that allows me to use my old OD&D and AD&D modules and settings with ease is a real bonus to me. As a fan of a more fighter based world view I also enjoy the fact that magic using classes are at a minimum in C&C. No paladin/ranger/bard spell casting but believe me when I say these classes did not get short changed. Bard is now a heroic poet warrior similar to the Norse skald or Celtic bards of legend with some skills in blathering, Paladin is a LG knight devoted to being the sword arm of his faith like a medieval crusades era Templar, and Rangers... The ranger is a dark and gritty guerrilla warrior that makes evil humanoids and sometimes travelers and merchants fearful of the dark forests. It is my oppinion that C&C compliments The world of Greyhawk in the same way the 3.5 compliments Eberron. I could probably go on for days but as it is time for work I will just join in on the recommendation that you visit the troll lords site for more information. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : Omote Date : 06-22-07 10:56 AM Thread Title : Re: Castles and crusades C&C is easy, fast and fun. Almost any idea that has come up in the 3rd edition of the game can be ported over to C&C if one choose, with little conversion process. The core mechanic in C&C (called SEIGE) lets this happen. For fans of C&C who like the idea of v3.5 FEATS and SKILL, you can port them over to C&C with ease. Plus, the C&C game is so less cumbersome without having hundres of pages of deep, deep rules for every situation. Most of these types of rules rely on the CK (C&C's version of DM) using good judgement based on simplified, a bit more streamlined rulesset. C&C emulates the older version of the D&D game with modern mechanics, and streamlined play. But there is no doubt about it, C&C is all about old-school play, but with a suped-up engine. .........................................Omote FPQ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : rigon Date : 07-02-07 12:19 AM Thread Title : Re: Castles and crusades Mysticpot, if you are still interested in C&C here is a link (http://www.trolllord.com/newsite/downloads/pdfs/cnc_qs.pdf) to TLG's quick start PDF. R- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : CCfan Date : 07-10-07 01:48 AM Thread Title : Re: Castles and crusades I'm an avid C&C fan, hense the handle because the best fantasy gaming experiences I've had have been 1st ed.; and, like what has already been said, C&C retains the creative freedom of first edition while integrating the best aspects of 3.5. Does it have its problems? Well, yes-- no psionics system and no secondary skill option, not to mention the 2 year delay on the Castle Keeper's guide. That being said, when I read of a creature of myth or fantasty fiction or from an existing OGL/d20 book, I don't crindge at the thought of the time it might take to run it in C&C [though it's always easier to convert from more stat heavy to stat lite]. But ask me the most important question-- have I ran or ever even played C&C? No. I tried to run it at a Con last year, and no one had ever heard of it. At my local FLAGS, and at the other three in town, if it's not 3.5, it's a no go. I sucked it up and bought the 3.5 core books a few months ago to play in a Midnight campaign, my first experience with 3.5, and although there is considerable flipping through books at times to locate feats, or which creature is imune to what, etc., it's still D&D. So I say if you can get a group to try it out, go for it. The twocore books should run you the price of one 3.5 book. But if your players are feat happy, as are some of the guys I play with, C&C may not be right for the group. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:21 AM.