General: Strength is default for climb, no need to mention it.
Some creatures have multiple attacks in their (non-full) attack line.
Some creatures have no frequency next to their alignment.
Creatures with no (--) Dex should have -5 AC.
Avariag: The Space/Reach is still in 3.0 format.
Belgoi: The bellringing ability isn’t written well. I suggest “…that also hears the ringing of the belgoi’s bell suffers a -2 penalty to his or her Will save.”
Black-touched: The chill touch ability should say that it is at *caster level* equal to its HD.
Bloodvine: Noticing the bloodvine’s attack should be Wis, not Int.
Bramble: Given that clubs and staffs are usually free, how can special ones cost 4 times as much?
Braxat: How can it have Weapon Specialization as a feat? Also, why is the favored class fighter and not ranger?
Burnflower: Should be statted by the minimum sized clump.
Bvanen: It doesn’t actually say what the ooze does mechanically.
Cactus, Hunting: Under combat, line 2, word 3 should be “plants”.
Cactus, Rock: Demihuman is no longer nomenclature in 3.0/5
Phantom hit points should instead read “temporary hit point” and follow the rules for such.
Cactus, Sand: Constitution drain, should be changed to remove the word drain, since the ability does damage (not drain).
Dagolar Slime: Oozes have no Int.
Defiled: Backlash damage, shouldn’t have the floating +1.
Drake, Earth: Under elemental attack, turn isn’t nomenclature anymore. Use standard avalanche rules from the DMG.
Dray: should have LA: +0 in the stat block.
Eel, Fire: Breath weapon’s save DC should be 16 (Con based).
Elemental Beast: Delirium should be confusion.
Earth: Stun DC should be Str based.
Fire: The stat block doesn’t list the additional fire damage from its attacks. Also, its rage ability is pointless, since it’s immune to fire damage.
Gaj: Stat block should say Int “damage” not “drain”. Also poison has extraneous “initial”.
Giant: Given the background of the Prism Pentad, what if Beasthead were an acquired template that could be added to a giant-type creature? (99% desert giant, of course).
Plains: “Medium daggers”??
Giant, Shadow: Is lucent healing per round? If so, why not have them gain Fast Healing X at various light levels?
Golem: Magma: “Weapon breakage test”? Looks like an artifact from an earlier edition.
Rock: I would think the Knockdown DC should be Str based. Why Dex?
Salt: Dehydration is badly written. Is it a full round action or free action? Pain ability should cause nausea (a define effect).
Gorak: Why an aberration and not a magical beast? The Trance DC should be based on something (I suggest Cha), possibly with a racial bonus.
Guardian: Creatures must have at least 1 Wis and Cha. Objects have neither. Can’t have one without the other. Also, given the extreme change in stats, I don’t think you can give a simple +2 CR.
Hej-Kin: First, where on the Hej-kin’s body is the spur? Second, the society and character sections don’t mesh in regards to character classes.
Id Fiend: The size descriptions are inconsistent. Also, cones have only one dimension in 3.5.
Jozhal: SR 5 is almost pointless.
Klar: Why an aberration and not a magical beast?
Lizard, Fire: Why doesn’t this have the fire subtype?
Subterranean: Why doesn’t this have a climb speed?
Magera: It doesn’t have a useful visual description. (i.e. I have no idea what it looks like,)
The character section doesn’t list racial HD, skills, feats, etc.
Mastyrial: DR vs. Bludgeoning, should read “DR 15/piercing or slashing”
That’s more than enough for now. N-Z + etc. on it’s way.
/me points at Gab and runs
This should keep us busy for a bit, hehe.
Danke.
Originally posted by Hill Giant
Bramble: Given that clubs and staffs are usually free, how can special ones cost 4 times as much?
Hmm, I missed that, will have to put in a set price then, nice catch.
Braxat: How can it have Weapon Specialization as a feat? Also, why is the favored class fighter and not ranger?
Pretty sure FC is fighter in MMII, I just took what was in there and beefed it up some.
Not sure why you think it having weapon specialization is a bad thing.
Dray: should have LA: +0 in the stat block.
Should be more than LA +0, not sure what happened there.
Giant, Shadow: Is lucent healing per round? If so, why not have them gain Fast Healing X at various light levels?
I would think so, and good call.
Golem: Magma: “Weapon breakage test”? Looks like an artifact from an earlier edition.
I don't see a problem with it. Might need to design it towards more like sunder or something though.
Rock: I would think the Knockdown DC should be Str based. Why Dex?
Makes sense. I must have been smoking something...
Salt: Dehydration is badly written. Is it a full round action or free action? Pain ability should cause nausea (a define effect).
Yeah, need to kill free action, heh.
Gorak: Why an aberration and not a magical beast? The Trance DC should be based on something (I suggest Cha), possibly with a racial bonus.
Agreed, not sure why it isn't a magical beast either.
Jozhal: SR 5 is almost pointless.
Yeah, will probably base it on level and make it low in the begining.
Klar: Why an aberration and not a magical beast?
No idea, it should be a magical beast.
Good catches on the others, add them to the list I guess, hehe.
Danke
The original dray didn't come with base HD, so the DM was free to add templar, fighter, wizard or whatever levels he wished to them. According to City by the Silt Sea the typical encountered second-generation dray was a 4th-level templar.
The new dray have racial Hit Dice though, which restricts their flexibility. (The kreen HD got nerfed for a reason.)
PS they're all supposed to be wild talents, too.
Originally posted by (Psi)SeveredHead
The original dray didn't come with base HD, so the DM was free to add templar, fighter, wizard or whatever levels he wished to them. According to City by the Silt Sea the typical encountered second-generation dray was a 4th-level templar.
This is 3rd ed, not 2nd ed, blah blah blah, etc.
. (The kreen HD got nerfed for a reason.)
It did?
Strange that I still see it in the core doc, heh.
"Level Adjustment +1: Kreen characters start play as a 2-Hit Die monster without class levels, but in terms of gaining experience, they are treated as 3rd level characters. Kreen with class levels add 3 to their class level for experience purposes."
I do see that we forgot to include Kreen in ToA though, doh.
PS they're all supposed to be wild talents, too.
They can take the wild talent feat just like anyone else, nothing is stopping them from doing that.
At a certain point you can't see the wood for the trees - this kind of outside perspective is exactly what is needed...Some creatures have multiple attacks in their (non-full) attack line.
Yup. A creature with multiple primary weapons (like the hydra, for example) has multiple entries in the attack line.
Braxat: How can it have Weapon Specialization as a feat? Also, why is the favored class fighter and not ranger?
Nothing wrong with giving it Weapon Specialization, imho. But yeah, its favored class is ranger in MM2...
Burnflower: Should be statted by the minimum sized clump.
Probably a good idea, this.
Bvanen: It doesn’t actually say what the ooze does mechanically.
Yes it does. It improves the bvanen natural armor to +7 and it allows them to use it to ensnare their foes on a successful atack, with a Str check (DC 13) to break loose.
Cactus, Hunting: Under combat, line 2, word 3 should be “plants”.
Heh - must have flagged that one a dozen times during review. Ho hum. Lord Doomspike strikes again ;)
Cactus, Rock: Demihuman is no longer nomenclature in 3.0/5
It isn't nomenclature. It's flavor text
Dagolar Slime: Oozes have no Int.
Oozes are only "usually" mindless, not always. As psionically altered creatures, dagolar slimes are fine with an Int score.
Defiled: Backlash damage, shouldn’t have the floating +1.
Why not?
Dray: should have LA: +0 in the stat block.
Yup. I tend not to favor an LA for those guys (LA+0 seems ok to me) but I guess that one will do the rounds
Elemental Beast: Delirium should be confusion.
No, confusion has a number of possible results, hence this choice. You could use confusion only if you specifically limit the result to incoherent babbling - extra words for same result.
Fire: The stat block doesn’t list the additional fire damage from its attacks. Also, its rage ability is pointless, since it’s immune to fire damage.
Change "takes damage from" to "is exposed to". The rage results from elemental impurities and is unrelated to the creature's combat abilities. It simply doesn't like the taste of regular fire...
Giant: Given the background of the Prism Pentad, what if Beasthead were an acquired template that could be added to a giant-type creature? (99% desert giant, of course).
What does everyone think about this one? It's a cool idea. The WJ also hints that beastheads gain their heads in a strange ceremony (just not the same on as PP). May well work
Salt: Dehydration is badly written. Is it a full round action or free action? Pain ability should cause nausea (a define effect).
It should get Improved Grab to allow it to grapple as free action without provoking an AoO. If it establishes a hold, it can dehydrate, dealing the listed damage. Nausea is also probably a worthwhile addition as well
Gorak: Why an aberration and not a magical beast? The Trance DC should be based on something (I suggest Cha), possibly with a racial bonus.
Because it's so wierd. Given that it's an entirely fictional creature, I'd say its type is pretty subjective. Magical beast is OK too, I guess. The Trance DC is based on Wis. It should note that in the text.
Guardian: Creatures must have at least 1 Wis and Cha. Objects have neither. Can’t have one without the other. Also, given the extreme change in stats, I don’t think you can give a simple +2 CR.
The guardian is a special case - half-construct, half-aware. It's not simply an "object". They are clearly sentient to a degree and so require stats that reflect this. I'm keen for feedback on the CR, though. They get a hefty penalty for being disembodied hunks of rock and then some bonuses for their powers. CR +2 seemed sensible in the long run, but a tweak may well be in order.
Hej-Kin: First, where on the Hej-kin’s body is the spur? Second, the society and character sections don’t mesh in regards to character classes.
It's on their claws - should be added. And yeah, the description could be smoother on that one. My mistake.
Id Fiend: The size descriptions are inconsistent.
Are they? I see a bit of blur in the length of tail and body but it all adds up to about 10 feet to me.
Magera: It doesn’t have a useful visual description. (i.e. I have no idea what it looks like,)The character section doesn’t list racial HD, skills, feats, etc.
Heh - what does one look like, Nyt? Do you get a good look at one in the PC game? And yes, I goofed on the characters section there too
.Can't disagree with anything else you noted, though. Thanks so much for this - keen eyes indeed
I do see that we forgot to include Kreen in ToA though, doh.
They were in MM2 so got left out of ToA along with other DS beasties in that book. One that didn't get away ;)
Thanks again for the hard feedback, folks - just what we need at this phase. Keep 'em coming!
Doesn't Weapon Specialization have the prerequsite "Fighter Level 4+" (it is one of the rare feats with a class and level requirement)? I suppose that is why Hill Giant mentiones it and why I also think the monster shouldn't have it...
Originally posted by Elonarc
Just a small contribution to this discussion:
Doesn't Weapon Specialization have the prerequsite "Fighter Level 4+" (it is one of the rare feats with a class and level requirement)? I suppose that is why Hill Giant mentiones it and why I also think the monster shouldn't have it...
I don't see it as such a big deal, personally, and I can't think of any sensible reason why something like a braxat couldn't specialize in a weapon without taking 4 levels in Ftr first. I was also pretty sure that this "rule" had already been overridden in WotC products, at least as far as monsters go... but after having a hunt, I can't find a single one
. Hmmm. So in the absence of anything other than my own unsupported opinion, I'd agree that the feat should be changed to something else. Improved Natural Armor would be cool .Aaracokra str is 11, not 15 (in the example)
Originally posted by Kamelion
I don't see it as such a big deal, personally, and I can't think of any sensible reason why something like a braxat couldn't specialize in a weapon without taking 4 levels in Ftr first. I was also pretty sure that this "rule" had already been overridden in WotC products, at least as far as monsters go... but after having a hunt, I can't find a single one
Except that they get it in MM2 AFAIK.
Originally posted by Kamelion
Yup. I tend not to favor an LA for those guys (LA+0 seems ok to me) but I guess that one will do the rounds
Dray *do* need an LA, not sure why you guys felt the need to change this.
We need to go back over these big time, because this is not what I had originally planned.
Except that they get it in MM2 AFAIK.
Nope - double-checked on that one
Dray *do* need an LA, not sure why you guys felt the need to change this.
Heh-heh, just being compulsive I guess... ;)
We need to go back over these big time, because this is not what I had originally planned.
I'm actually not stuck on the LA. They seemed borderline to me, what with the racial HD, but you know how easily swayed I am. Especially after a nice dinner and a few drinks...
They were in MM2 so got left out of ToA along with other DS beasties in that book. One that didn't get away
So then, perhaps some type of clarifying list of creatures that were originally in DS that wandered their way into other sources like MM2 and such.
Also, as far as kreen go, any plans of listing the tohr-kreen subspecies?
Originally posted by Mach2.5
Also, as far as kreen go, any plans of listing the tohr-kreen subspecies?
Think we are saving those for the kreen invasion accessory.
Think we are saving those for the kreen invasion accessory.
Forget the express mailed miniature giant space hamsters, I'm sending full fledged nekkid ragin' ratmen after you all.
Well, what's the status on this project then?
Giant: Given the background of the Prism Pentad, what if Beasthead were an acquired template that could be added to a giant-type creature? (99% desert giant, of course).
What does everyone think about this one? It's a cool idea. The WJ also hints that beastheads gain their heads in a strange ceremony (just not the same one as PP). May well work.
Since this all goes back to the PP, if you remember the Beasthead Giants (Saram) have deformed heads and this is the reason they take animal heads. So, I'm all for the template for non-Saram giants wishing to become Beastheads but you can't just make a template because it is a seperate giant race. Also, the WJ description of this ceremony may be different because during the PP the Beasthead giants could have been missleading Fylo making him think they were going to help him. They are basically evil and he was pretty stupid.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Think we are saving those for the kreen invasion accessory.
Yeah, I seem to recall something along those lines. There was also some talk about adding a couple of lines of flavour text to the kreen entry in DS3 Core to reflect that there are other species beyond the jeral and tok'sa species common in the Tablelands. I don't remember if this ever got beyond the idle talk phase, though...
Originally posted by Cyrus9a
Since this all goes back to the PP, if you remember the Beasthead Giants (Saram) have deformed heads and this is the reason they take animal heads. So, I'm all for the template for non-Saram giants wishing to become Beastheads but you can't just make a template because it is a seperate giant race. Also, the WJ description of this ceremony may be different because during the PP the Beasthead giants could have been missleading Fylo making him think they were going to help him. They are basically evil and he was pretty stupid.
Anyone else have any thoughts on this? Looking at the write-ups, a template seems fairly simple. Should it be open to all giants (b'rohg?), or just Desert giants? Or should it be used at all? (Sitting on the fence, myself, waiting to see what folks think
).It did?
With 5 HD, thri-kreen would have an LA of 3 higher, making them less flexible. Their CR was also higher, making them less flexible NPCs.
Strange that I still see it in the core doc, heh.
"Level Adjustment +1: Kreen characters start play as a 2-Hit Die monster without class levels, but in terms of gaining experience, they are treated as 3rd level characters. Kreen with class levels add 3 to their class level for experience purposes."
I wasn't complaining about that. LA +1 or +2 is reasonable for kreen; they only have 2 racial Hit Dice, not 4 or 5 extraneous Hit Dice.
Anyone else have any thoughts on this? Looking at the write-ups, a template seems fairly simple. Should it be open to all giants (b'rohg?), or just Desert giants? Or should it be used at all? (Sitting on the fence, myself, waiting to see what folks think ).
Ahh, just go ahead. I've never been big on the beastheaded giants and the ceremony section in the novel was just plain lame. But, I'd love for someone to work it out in a way far more interesting than the original sources. Give it a shot and see what happens.
Forget the express mailed miniature giant space hamsters, I'm sending full fledged nekkid ragin' ratmen after you all.
*points them in Nyte's direction*
I did not like what was presented in The Obsidian Oracle about them at all. :P
I'll see if we can do a template as well though.
Can never have enough templates.
And there are no more ragin nekkid rat men, where are you getting your supply from Mach? Share, hehe.
And there are no more ragin nekkid rat men, where are you getting your supply from Mach? Share, hehe.
Bleh, I'm sticking to the split between civilized and wilderness Tari. The original argument against such was lack of precedent, but the villichi have such a split, so there :P
Originally posted by Mach2.5
Bleh, I'm sticking to the split between civilized and wilderness Tari. The original argument against such was lack of precedent, but the villichi have such a split, so there :P
Can you send that writeup to me?
I kinda liked it too, whether no race is suppose to have class abilities are not, hehe.
Should be more than LA +0, not sure what happened there.
Whatever the LA adjustment it should be in the stat block and the charcter section, which it isn't.
Originally posted by Hill Giant
Whatever the LA adjustment it should be in the stat block and the charcter section, which it isn't.
They will be 2 HD LA +2, and 2 HD and LA +1 respectively.
Yup. A creature with multiple primary weapons (like the hydra, for example) has multiple entries in the attack line.
Hydra is a special case, things like... avariag (first one I see) should only get 1 claw attack for a standard action attack.
Yes it does. It improves the bvanen natural armor to +7 and it allows them to use it to ensnare their foes on a successful atack, with a Str check (DC 13) to break loose.
But what is the mechanical effect of having, say, your head oozed?
Why not?
3.5 avoids numerical modifiers that don't realte to something.
The guardian is a special case - half-construct, half-aware. It's not simply an "object". They are clearly sentient to a degree and so require stats that reflect this.
Golems have a Charisma score, tho. (Usually 1)
I'm keen for feedback on the CR, though. They get a hefty penalty for being disembodied hunks of rock and then some bonuses for their powers. CR +2 seemed sensible in the long run, but a tweak may well be in order.
What if the base creature was some sort of combat monster with psionics secondary, especially if it had more than 10 HD; orbifaction isn't really an improvement then.
Are they? I see a bit of blur in the length of tail and body but it all adds up to about 10 feet to me.
3-4 feet + 3-4 feet doesn't = 10 feet. Also, tail length isn't as signifigent to creature size (usually part of their reach).
Originally posted by Cyrus9a
Since this all goes back to the PP, if you remember the Beasthead Giants (Saram) have deformed heads and this is the reason they take animal heads. So, I'm all for the template for non-Saram giants wishing to become Beastheads but you can't just make a template because it is a seperate giant race.
The Desert Giant is described as having facial deformies, which is why I suspect they are the same, or similar, race (pre-trandsformation, of course). Personally, I like the effect of them being the same race, it has angst and apllicability.
Hydra is a special case, things like... avariag (first one I see) should only get 1 claw attack for a standard action attack.
Gotcha. I'd agree with you on this. It should be changed.
But what is the mechanical effect of having, say, your head oozed?
Bad hair?
I'd treat a head-strike as a regular grapple unless it's a critical, in which case you could rule that there is danger of suffocation while the grapple lasts. Is this what you meant? What do folks think of this? Too much tweak?
3.5 avoids numerical modifiers that don't realte to something.
Is it the "+1" in 1d4+1 that you mean? What about magic missile? It has the same kind of damage code, with a +1 that stacks with level...
Golems have a Charisma score, tho. (Usually 1)
True. So with that in mind, the Guardians could get Cha 1.
What if the base creature was some sort of combat monster with psionics secondary, especially if it had more than 10 HD; orbifaction isn't really an improvement then.
Not much. The psychic warrior orb example is borderline for this reason. Should the template be equally suited to all subjects, though? I'd say not.
And I'll go see if I can't stretch the id fiend a little for ya. Animal cruelty was always a pet hobby of mine... 'scuse the pun... ;)
Can you send that writeup to me?
You lost it? It was from your own website ;)
I ditched the class ability though and just gave them favored class: brute for wilderness, so I don't have the text for it anymore either
Giant, Shadow - Why a magical beast and not an outsider (augmented humanoid) from the Black?
Originally posted by Arborus
Another question:
Giant, Shadow - Why a magical beast and not an outsider (augmented humanoid) from the Black?
Good point, that. Can't think why - should probably be changed. Cheers!
Originally posted by Kamelion
re: bvanen ooze
Bad hair?
I'd treat a head-strike as a regular grapple unless it's a critical, in which case you could rule that there is danger of suffocation while the grapple lasts. Is this what you meant? What do folks think of this? Too much tweak?
The effects should be stated in the text. Arms are fairly obvious, legs should reduce movement. There's a number of ways to go with head: blindness, reduced spot/listen, suffocation, etc.
re: defiled
Is it the "+1" in 1d4+1 that you mean? What about magic missile? It has the same kind of damage code, with a +1 that stacks with level...
Okay, there are a few exceptions...
Not much. The psychic warrior orb example is borderline for this reason. Should the template be equally suited to all subjects, though? I'd say not.
What if the CR were based on, say, the highest level psionic power the base creatre can manifest?
Also, concerning the Dagolar Slime, the MM says oozes have no intelligence, but it also give skill progression for oozes with Int. I suspect for such cases as the 'Awaken Slime' spell. So, on that basis, I'll say leave it as is.
Originally posted by Mach2.5
You lost it? It was from your own website ;)
Yeah, I don't backup when I make an update to the article. Mainly this is due to me liking the changes that are being made over the current version.
I ditched the class ability though and just gave them favored class: brute for wilderness, so I don't have the text for it anymore either
That's a better way of doing it anyway.
Works for me.
Originally posted by Hill Giant
What if the CR were based on, say, the highest level psionic power the base creatre can manifest?
Judging the weirdness of those things, we really need some playtesting feedback before we adjust the CRs on them.
So if you want to playtest it then send us the results that will be cool.
Other than that it's going to be a major hit or miss.
I think 2nd generation Drays should be humanoids, because they live in humanlike society and all togheter I think that it fits better for 2nd generation Drays being humanoids.....but maybe it's just me...
I ultimately chose monstrous humanoid because of the fire resistance really. MM3.5 says of humanoids (p310) that they "have few or no supernatural or extraordinary abilities". While under monstrous humanoid (p311) it says that they "often have magical abilities as well". Although dray don't have any strictly magical abilities, they have three Ex abilities, one of which (fire resistance 10) is fairly potent. Based on this, I felt that monstrous humanoid was a slightly better choice than humanoid. I did consider humanoid (reptilian) and even the dragon type (although that really is going too far - heh heh). It doesn't seem to be a societal consideration, more an ability-based one. As for gnolls, I'd say that they are only humanoids due to their total lack of any special abilities.
The fire resistance is realy a kind of hard, but I still think 2nd generation Drays are more like humanoids, according the Base Attack they should be and they should get more skill points. Think about it, Dregoth build them as the new upcomming race. A race with its own culture and its own language. But mounstrous humanoid are very slow in progression and not very "skilled"
I'd also liked to see a conversion of the "Dray Player Character" of CbtSS and not one of DSMC2, but maybe it's just me or it's the wrong book (ToA). But with as a 4HD creature it is realy hard to make a conversion of any NPC of this book (CbtSS).
So why don't make it a 1HD creture with higher LA?
As far as I know the original Drow was a 2HD creature and it was changed into an 1HD creature with LA+2 (i guess +2 was right).
Why should every 2nd gen. Dray be an 4HD creature? Advancing a creature shouldn't be difficult, as you can do it very easely by class.
You have the opportunity, take a whole campaign box as base for conversion or just take 2 sites of one book.
I still think 2nd generation Drays are more like humanoids, according the Base Attack they should be and they should get more skill points.
I'm not sure I follow you here. Their BAB and skills are accurate for their stats as presented as monstrous humanoids. If they were humanoids, their BAB would be worse and skills would remain exactly the same.
Think about it, Dregoth build them as the new upcomming race. A race with its own culture and its own language. But mounstrous humanoid are very slow in progression and not very "skilled"
I don't know of any rule that requires culture or language to be a component of monster type. Derro, kuo-toa. sahuagin and yuan-ti are all monstrous humanoids, for example. Are they without culture or language? Is their culture or language inferior to that of goblins and orcs? I don't follow why you think that monstrous humanoids progress slower than other creature types, or why they get less skills than humanoids. They get exactly the same: 2 + Int bonus.
I'd also liked to see a conversion of the "Dray Player Character" of CbtSS and not one of DSMC2, but maybe it's just me or it's the wrong book (ToA).
Afaik, most of the information is the same in both supplements. If you look at the MC supplement in CbtSS you'll see that it matches the MC2 entry. The only mechanics missing from MC2 (and ToA) was the 1st generation mutation table. That might well be a good candidate for inclusion in the next ToA release - thanks
But with as a 4HD creature it is realy hard to make a conversion of any NPC of this book (CbtSS).
Why should every 2nd gen. Dray be an 4HD creature? Advancing a creature shouldn't be difficult, as you can do it very easely by class.
Absolutely. Which is why we're going back to having them as 2 HD creatures with a level adjustment of +2 and +1 respectively. If you read a few posts back you'll see that this was covered by Nyt
(We had an overlap in the design phase with these guys, with me doing a straight HD conversion and Nyt and Feebles working on a level adjustment version. My version happened to wind up in ToA but theirs is the better conversion for a 3e game, so it will replace the current version in the next release.)
You have the opportunity, take a whole campaign box as base for conversion or just take 2 sites of one book.
Heh - that would be nice ;) With ToA, however, it's more important to get the mechanics converted and to present a working version of the monster with all the basic information (fluff and crunch) intact. You could write pages and pages on these guys but you need to keep the entry to a reasonable size (early versions of the elf writeup ran to 6 pages or more, for example, and those got snipped) so for the purposes of a monster supplement, you confine yourself to what is required to present them as a solid adversary in the first place, ally in the second and interest in the third (imho). If you can get some cultural flavour and background in there as well, even better, but you need to draw the line somewhere.
>looks back at ever-growing post in dismay<
And speaking of which, thanks for the feedback
I'll shut up now.Originally posted by NytCrawlr
I do see that we forgot to include Kreen in ToA though, doh.
It already appears in MM2. The core version is just a "raceified" writeup of that, so we pretty much can't publish the monster version of the 'kreen in ToA.
I'm not sure I follow you here. Their BAB and skills are accurate for their stats as presented as monstrous humanoids. If they were humanoids, their BAB would be worse and skills would remain exactly the same.....
..... I don't follow why you think that monstrous humanoids progress slower than other creature types, or why they get less skills than humanoids. They get exactly the same: 2 + Int bonus.
That's right and also it's not right. Right is that the BAB would be worse, not right that the skills would remain the same.
Skills:
Monstrous humanoids: 2 + INT bonus
Humanoids: 6 + Int bonus
-> humanoids are more skilled than monstrous humanoids.
BAB:
humanoids: average (like clerics)
monstrous humanoids: good (like fighter)
Ok, now let's take a look into the DSMC2.
Dray
Hit Dice: (3d10/4d8)
THAC0: 18
1st generation Dray have warrior HD and THAC0.
2nd generation Dray have priest HD and THAC0.
As you can see 2nd generation Drays do have a worse attack abilities.
Absolutely. Which is why we're going back to having them as 2 HD creatures with a level adjustment of +2 and +1 respectively. If you read a few posts back you'll see that this was covered by Nyt
Shame on me and my english knowledge
2 HD is something I could live with, but I still would like to see it as humanoid.
Humanoids: 6 + Int bonus
Not in my Monster Manual.
As you can see 2nd generation Drays do have a worse attack abilities.
As represented by their Str penalty. When they are restored to 2 HD you will see the difference back in the stats
.Not in my Monster Manual.
MMII p.9 l.8...
... or is there an errata I didn't know of?
As represented by their Str penalty. When they are restored to 2 HD you will see the difference back in the stats .
Str penalty ?? you mean according to 1st generation Drays, right?
... or is there an errata I didn't know of?
Umm, Monster Manual 3.5 (p310) ;)
Str penalty ?? you mean according to 1st generation Drays, right?
Heh, yeah, I meant their relative Str (sorry - am cooking and posting and probably not doing either very well - lol)
I see it now and it seems that the 3.5 ed MM2 does handle it different
:humanoid: 6 + INT-mod + EHD
mounstrous humanoid: (2xINT-mod)+(2xEHD)
I guess you are right
and I should read more exactly. Originally posted by Bengeldorn
mmhhh....
I see it now and it seems that the 3.5 ed MM2 does handle it different
humanoid: 6 + INT-mod + EHD
mounstrous humanoid: (2xINT-mod)+(2xEHD)
I guess you are right
No worries - can't help it if the books betray you ;)
Any kind of serious comments are helpful: even if they don't make immediate impact, they help keep the design perspective fresh. And in this case, we're revising the published dray, so it's all good. Cheers
Originally posted by flip
It already appears in MM2. The core version is just a "raceified" writeup of that, so we pretty much can't publish the monster version of the 'kreen in ToA.
Just call it the "Thri-Kreen, Athasian". No?