It almost seems as if DragonLance is on Wotc's back burner. There isn't even a link on their web site to the offical web site. and the web site might be supported by Wotc, but its not by Wotc. not that its a bad thing, thats not what i'm saying. My point is, Dragonlance just doesn't seem to get the support that Forgotten Realms, or especially now that Ebberon is coming out soon. DragonLance used to be one of the biggest campaign worlds in D&D. What happened? can anyone answer this question for me? after all didn't a new DragonLance Campaign book just come out?
Aragorn...
as far as i'm concerned, this is a much better option than the alternative- a completely dead DL.
As far as I'm concerned we get it pretty dang good compared to those poor fans..
AFAIC, I am looking forward to the release of the War of the Lance -- Dragonlance 4th Age book this summer, Aragorn.
Are you still concerned?
The occasional article here and there on the WotC site, no discussion of novels allowed on these boards, nobody from WotC ever bothers to actually post on their own official mailing list (or any other list for that matter). It's rather sad.
In addition, this world is supported by an assortment of novels (pick your region and timeline) which helps you get the flavor for virtually any place or culture in the world. To me, that is the worlds strongest asset. You don't get that type of background support out of the realms - their novel count and historical depth does not even come close. However, we could use some help in the map department.
I am expecting, and seeing good things for DL - no matter where it comes from. The people engaged now are obviously passionate about the world.
Stormhawk
However, we could use some help in the map department.
I agree. It would be nice to have a DL Map Folio type of thing that we can post on our walls or laminate and such. What do you say SP???
Originally posted by Nuke
We as Dragonlance fans have NO right to complain. Just look at what WotC does to Greyhawk...
As far as I'm concerned we get it pretty dang good compared to those poor fans..
I wouldn't go so far as denying anyone the right to complain. But thank you, Nuke, for pointing out what we Greyhawk fans face. I thank the gods (of Krynn and Oerth) that we Dragonlance fans have material to look forward to.
And then there's us Al-Qadim fans... we have no Fate but the Fate given us!
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Originally posted by LordofIllusions
I have to agree that they did GreyHawk dirty.
Really? I remember thinking it would have been kinda neat to have my favorite world suddenly become the Core Rules world.
Originally posted by Brimstone
Really? I remember thinking it would have been kinda neat to have my favorite world suddenly become the Core Rules world.
Sure... let's take a world that started the whole D&D game. Okay, no lets make it so generic and bland that it can be shoved into any campaign you want to run. We won't produce any kind of Campaign setting for the world.. because after all, it's core. And we'll never release anyting that is specific to that world, no specific adventures, no specific maps, etc...
So basically all they'll ever get is bland regurgitated material that is spewed out so that you don't actually have to PLAY in Greyhawk to use that material. Yep, sounds pretty cool to me.
I'm not like ripping on you or anything, so please don't take it that way.. I'm just saying that we as Dragonlance fans have it pretty dang good in comparison.
Originally posted by Nuke
Yep, sounds pretty cool to me.
Sheesh...sorry. Maybe I was wrong.
Originally posted by Nuke
Okay, no lets make it so generic and bland that it can be shoved into any campaign you want to run.
I believe that this is the direction Ebberon is taking. Within several years Ebberon will be put on the back-burner.
Hype doesn't count for much; quality is all. Dragonlance has the quality! And at least its hype wasn't created through constant advertising!
It was never going to sell enough to keep a line going on its own, and now every fan can contribute to the world simply by getting a free RPGA membership and participating. You can design adventures and locations. As well, the pages of Dungeon give something new for Greyhawk nearly every month with the Living Greyhawk Journal. Latest article detailed the city of Hardby in great detail, and provides enough information as a home base for an adventuring party. As well, Greyhawk has a comprehensive world-detailing gazateer, something we have yet to get.
I don't think the Greyhawk fans are hard done by compared to us at all.
You've have all been treated well I reckon
Forgotten Realms is going to burn out because it is overhyped, as was Eberron. Although I still think Eberron is tight.
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Originally posted by lugnut71
I don't know I think Ebberon will do good. Heck I plan on playing in it at some point.
I think it will do good too(I am buying the Eberron campaign setting in June.), just like FR has done good. IMO what is killing FR right now is all of the hype around the setting. That makes it easy for people to get sick of seeing it. They are doing the same with Eberron IMO.
Originally posted by KirNaNog
You're all complaining: But think of those poor Dark Sun fans, like me!!! We have nothing!!! Ah yes we do have a fantastic official site which Athas.org and some ****** up article and DS PHB in Dragon/Dungeon
You've have all been treated well I reckon
This really can lead to a cycle of “I have it worse than you.”
What would happen next is that the Planescape folks would say, “At least you have the article. All we have is the site.” Then the fans of Blackmoor, Star Frontiers, etc. etc. would comment how at least Dark Sun, Planescape, etc. have their own boards on the Other Worlds but they don’t.
In other words, fans of many settings can say that their setting does not get proper support. To a degree, they’re right.
Let’s look at some other aspects, though.
Wizards of the Coast is first and foremost a business. This isn’t to say that they don’t care about these various settings, because they do, but they have a business to run, and these various settings are the products that they sell to us, the consumer.
Many of the settings are no longer produced as they don’t bring in the desired profit. As such, it makes little business sense to expend money and resources for a product that is no longer produced.
The counter-balance to this is that some settings do sell well, and so they put their focus behind them. Forgotten Realms does well, as it is a fairly generic world that has room enough for nearly any adventure.
Then there’s the matter of fan websites. Almost each of the 2e settings (save perhaps for Al-Qadim) has an official website, such as Athas.org, Planewalker.com, and the Dragonlance Nexus. WotC doesn’t want to devote resources to these “dead” settings, so why not put the settings in the hands of the fans, who will voluntarily support the settings for each setting’s fan base, and they’ll do it for free and out of love.
Dragonlance (getting back on topic) has been a bit unique in that it has been a “dead” setting gaming-wise, yet a very successful setting novel-wise. Add on fan sites such as Dragonlance.com and the Dragonlance Nexus (which essentially do a ton of free advertising and support) as well as licensing out the gaming line to Sovereign Press.
The question, then, is how much support does such a setting get?
Personally, I think it’s a matter of allocation of resources. Yes, I wish WotC would have more support on their site for Dragonlance, yet it seems to me that they’re focusing more on the novels and getting everything out than they are on other forms of support. They know that there are fan resources that are essentially doing the job for them. So why should they expend resources when they don’t have to?
Really, none of us knows what goes on behind WotC’s doors. Their decisions and their reasoning are theirs alone. We don’t know what factors come into play, and what decisions are made for what reasons. Sometimes setting support comes into play, and sometimes business drives decisions.
Business-wise, WotC made a good decision to outsource Dragonlance to an outside publisher, one who happens to be owned by one of the more notable Dragonlance author. Surely, you cannot object to that.
As for the novel business, granted, I was disappointed at the indefinite hold on a future Taladas project, but glad we have have a new series featuring minotaurs of Krynn.
Let WotC do their own business, which is currently promoting Eberron. The fact that WotC handed over the responsibility of Dragonlance to a more caring group of game designers should be more than enough to allay any fear.
Originally posted by Ranger REG
As for the novel business, granted, I was disappointed at the indefinite hold on a future Taladas project, but glad we have have a new series featuring minotaurs of Krynn.
Have you not heard? Chris Pierson will be spear heading the new Taladas trilogy for next year...complete with sourcebook from SP. :D
Then in Living Greyhawk you can also write and publish new material for the Journal as well as new adventures to be played by fellow members of the RPGA. It is a different path than the once a month hardcover full-colour gaming manuals by the Forgotten Realms, but it is still a lot of fun and a lot of material.
Originally posted by Brimstone
Have you not heard? Chris Pierson will be spear heading the new Taladas trilogy for next year...complete with sourcebook from SP. :D
Yeah I am plotting on that book.
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Originally posted by ferratus
I like Living Greyhawk myself, and I don't understand what the dissapointment is among them.
But are the fans of GH really getting what they want from Living Greyhawk?
You say it's the usual rules fluff and such, along with adventures, characters and such.
DL had that for 10 years. But the world didn't move forward, and alot of fans were frustrated because of it.
Is there something missing from the equation that is causing the disappointment?
Originally posted by Stormhawk
With the release of the new d20 rules by both WotC and SP combined, you will see a huge increase in DL stuff. Take a look at what SP is putting out now.
Whoa whoa whoa!!! Hold the phone. I hope I am only misunderstanding you. You are not talking about an even newer version of the rules beyond 3.5 are you? Please tell me there isn't talk of something new. I have been out of the loop for a few months here.
Originally posted by themeecer
Whoa whoa whoa!!! Hold the phone. I hope I am only misunderstanding you. You are not talking about an even newer version of the rules beyond 3.5 are you? Please tell me there isn't talk of something new. I have been out of the loop for a few months here.
No, nothing new beyond 3.5. This was in reference to the new DL gaming product line.
Originally posted by Brimstone
Have you not heard? Chris Pierson will be spear heading the new Taladas trilogy for next year...complete with sourcebook from SP. :D
It's news to me now. Sweet!
Originally posted by Aragorn
I'm sure this has been discussed a million times. This is my first time to this post so please forgive me if i'm bringing up a subject that has been discussed repeatedly.
It almost seems as if DragonLance is on Wotc's back burner. There isn't even a link on their web site to the offical web site. and the web site might be supported by Wotc, but its not by Wotc. not that its a bad thing, thats not what i'm saying. My point is, Dragonlance just doesn't seem to get the support that Forgotten Realms, or especially now that Ebberon is coming out soon. DragonLance used to be one of the biggest campaign worlds in D&D. What happened? can anyone answer this question for me? after all didn't a new DragonLance Campaign book just come out?
Aragorn...
Count your self lucky it's still getting printed. Imagine how Darksun and Spelljammer fans feel, all 6 of them
;):DSeriously, when the Ravenloft fanbase found out that Arthaus had bought the rights to the setting we were happy, but had a sense of trepidation. But it's still in print. So just be happy at that.
Originally posted by Drinnik Shoehorn
Count your self lucky it's still getting printed. Imagine how Darksun and Spelljammer fans feel, all 6 of them
They at least got a 3e treatment in Dragon and Dungeon/Polyhedron (although there's been mixed reactions, to say the least).
Then there's Star Frontiers....
But like I said, we could go on into infinity with this. Settings are making a comeback, which is good. I believe I saw where some Al-Qadim materials will be in Dragon soon.
Plus Blackmoor is getting its own setting book! How cool is that?
Originally posted by Raistlin-Uber-Mage
speaking of which, does WotC even produce mods? i know about the ones they released during product launch time, but still. do they even consider making mods?
Not any more. WotC used to, but made a decision recently to not produce any more.
Originally posted by Raistlin-Uber-Mage
we need more birthright, al-qadim, and spelljammer.
One of my favorite parts about D&D was the idea that the same rules could be used for so many settings. The various TSR settings were one of my favorite parts of the game when I first played.
The problem with some of these settings, though, is that they're niche settings that appeal to a smaller audience. This doesn't mean that they're bad - just that more people buy generic fantasy settings like the Realms over niche settings like Spelljammer.
It's a shame really, but I think it all boils down to the numbers.
What I especially liked about the Dark Sun conversion is that they started from 3e and took the concepts of the Dark Sun setting and created rules, rather than trying to keep as many as the wonky 2e rules as possible. That is the hardcore fans want, but frankly I like my rules to be efficient and make sense.
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
Not any more. WotC used to, but made a decision recently to not produce any more.
Actually one of their first products for Eberron will be a module, if I'm not mistaken. However, its the exception to the rule.
AAAAAGH!!! NOOO!!! now i'm gonna have to pay loads of cash on stuff so i can work on converting it to the new rules!
Actually the adventures are usually better when you do this because you can catch that hot 2e flavor in your 3e game.
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